#wicked novel

[violet-moonstone]

is the book "confusing" or does it just ask you to think instead of spoon feeding you all the answers?

is the character "unlikable" or are you being uncharitable and unused to seeing main characters as anything other than a vehicle for self projection and wish fulfillment (either someone you'd want to be or want to be friends with)?

is the writing "problematic" or does it just display complex and flawed characters navigating a cruel world?

are the sex scenes "gratuitous" or do you just have puritan sensibilities and think that sex is something that needs to be justified because you think it cheapens art?

does "nothing happen" in the book or are you expressing your subjective preference for plot-driven stories as an objective evaluation on the book's value?

did the book "traumatize" you or is that just a term you throw around loosely to describe anything that upsets or disturbs you?

remember that one scene at shiz where elphaba says she likes to read things that challenge her because she likes to think about what she reads, and glinda stares at her like she's speaking gibberish?

yeah.

Don't get me wrong, I do understand why people don't like Maguire's writing but there is a growing trend of people hating any fiction that challenges them.

I saw a review where someone was saying they "weren't a pearl clutcher, but..." and then in the next sentence proceeded to clutch pearls. Your tolerance for bizarre fiction isn't as high as you thought it was. That's fine. It doesn't mean the book is bad.

Imagine reading a book for adults and then finding mature topics in it. The horror!

Maybe instead of blaming the author, blame whatever person or circumstances led to to believe it was a kids' book. *Hint* it was probably the popularity of the musical adaptation and the book reprints with the musical cover on it. Can't wait for more people to watch the movie and then read the book expecting it to be sunshine and rainbows. (No hate to the movie, btw it actually looks pretty good).

[gaybichon]

"Entrancing," she said. "There's some strange exotic quality of beauty about you. I never thought."

"Surprise," said Elphaba, and then nearly blushed, if darker green constituted a blush-- "I mean, surprise, not beauty. It's just surprise. 'Well, what do you know.' It's not beauty."

i always loved the hat scene from the novel

[ameliasshepherd]

Fiyero's whitewashing is so aggravating. He's described as having dark skin and beautiful diamond tribal patterns on his face and chest.

also, canonically elphaba loves these markings and he makes a note to unbutton his shirt for her to see.

[suzerainoflegend]

Cynthia Erivo got Mike Wazowski’d by Target

[faythropp]

I vastly prefer discussions about the Wicked book than I do about the musical (that I've had no opportunity to see). But I am gladly going to see the Wicked musical on Thursday because it's likely the only way I'll ever get to see it. (Then I have to wait a whole year to see part two. Ugh

That being said I cannot wait for the Wicked (book) prequel next year!

[cowchickenbeefpork]

watching the musical or movie and seeing firyero after reading the book is so funny….like whose white baby is thattttt

[virtualsoup]

A sneak peek mayhaps

[eatingjewels]

I'm reading Wicked rn and idk if I just have lez colored glasses but... Galinda, after a night of talking and realizing elphaba is sexy in a praying mantis way is a bitch to her a poetry reading(not a gay reading just propaganda). Then when elphaba gets bummed out by seeing a childhood playmate she goes back to their shared dorm room. AND THEN GALINDA FEELs REJECTED WHNE SHE DOESN'T WANT TO TALK TO HER. THEN FEELS ASHAMED(not about being bitchy) THAT SHE EVEN FEELS REJECTED. So on and so forth toxic yuri.

[blue-dissolve]

"The Goddess of Gifts the last, reaching among flames and water, cradling her, crooning something, but the words remain unclear."

[starsimmer722]

Glinda and Elphaba 💗💚

[violet-moonstone]

once more defending my love, book!elphaba thropp

reading reviews of wicked and im seeing people say they hate book elphaba because she's "unlikable"

so many people love the feel good vibes of the musical while not seeing that they sound exactly like people who would have shunned elphaba at shiz for not being pleasant enough and making them feel unsettled instead of putting them at ease

I'm saying this because I find that people are often much more charitable towards fictional characters than real people -- and people IRL who have Elphaba's severe, unwavering personality and unwillingness to conform often face the same social stigma she did, no green skin required. Like yes, Elphaba was an outcast because she had green skin, but I don't think the green skin is the point of the novel. I think her being green is a visual manifestation of being so at odds with what you're "supposed" to be that people demonize you for it. Book Elphaba is queer and hinted to be intersex. I read her as neurodivergent, so this all tracks to me, and considering that other forms of oppression and stigmatization are very important themes in the narrative, I think the green-ness simply emphasizes to the other ways in which she's marginalized.

Trying not to go into the Wicked rant that I tend to do every few months but I feel it coming on

I'm all here for critiques of the novel, because it certainly has flaws, and I understand why people don't enjoy it -- but there is something funny to me about people wanting a narrative about looking beneath the surface to find true value but hating the version of that story that requires the most compassion to appreciate. Like the musical is fun and well-made but it does not require any effort to like musical Elphaba because she's conventionally attractive woman who's feisty and kinda quirky...oh and she's also green. And her being green matters more to the other characters than to us. We don't care that she's green (because we already know it would be wrong to judge her based on that) and the musical gives us no other reasons to judge her, so we don't really have to process any complex emotions.

(Sidenote, I think if book Elphaba were still green but more conventionally attractive, bubbly, and less political, she would not have been as much of an outcast -- at least not in her later adolescence. Her green-ness could have been a novelty or spectacle that she used to her advantage if she made up for it by being more palatable in other ways. Of course, she would never do this, because that's simply not Elphaba. She could never twist herself to be anything other than who she is, even out of social self-preservation.)

Book Elphaba is so much more prickly and unpleasant --and hell, so was I at the height of my social ineptitude and feeling like there was something so so wrong with me (because why for the love of God couldn't I just fit in and act the way the cool kids my age did).

Her unpleasantness and seriousness and insistence on talking about important things that make people uncomfortable are her green-ness imo. Those are the things that affect how we as the reader experience her, and we must experience her strangeness as well.

And while I understand that if the moral of the story is essentially "don't judge a book by its cover" then yes, you can tell a thematically sound story about a girl who is actually pretty cool but just happens to be green and talk about how she's ostracized simply because she looks different. That's a perfectly fine story -- but I think it can go much further -- because it's not only wrong to marginalize people who look different, it's also wrong to marginalize those who are internally different. Difference is persecuted whether its visual or behavioural.

Even if Elphaba weren't green, there are inherent aspects of who she is that prevent her from conforming to the ideal, both in her world and ours. And I think valuing her with all of those things in mind is a lot more rewarding than simply liking her despite the fact that she's green.

Anyway I love Elphaba Thropp and I don't think her being more palatable would have made the story better — it simply would have made it more popular, and I think on that at least, fans of both the book and musical should be able to agree is not an inherently better thing.

...

OK one last point, I saw someone saw they prefer the musical because it has more "girl power" meanwhile the book feels "obviously written by a man" and I just...dear god what a surface level take

Yes Gregory Maguire is a man (oh, the horror!), but he wrote the women in Wicked as people, without hand wringing about if they're likeable or pleasant enough. They are flawed and raw and not just there to make the audience feel warm and fuzzy. He writes about sexuality without making women feel like sexual objects -- I suspect because he also writes about the sexuality of his male characters (the women aren't just in the story to turn us on) and he himself is gay, so there may be less male-gaze going on than with a lot of men who write fantasy. Yes, characters are described in sexual ways, but this happens regardless of gender.

[gaybichon]

glinda was lezzing OUT

[reading-writing-revolution]

Let’s talk about how the big screen improves the musical’s political messaging (and why it’s the perfect film to go see after the U.S. election).

From novel to musical to movie, there’s so much to unpack about what’s an absolutely fantastic prequel to the Wizard of Oz. But there’s so much more from the standpoint of politics, especially in the face of Trump.

Above is the link to Medium, which some of you may prefer, but below is the same article linked from Substack, so you have your choice.

https://colehaddon.substack.com/p/wicked-is-the-film-we-all-need-right

And I think it goes without saying that we’re likely going to need to write more criticism about Trump and his regime of phonies and cronies through fictional, coming at it from an obtuse angle that no self-respecting MAGA moron could handle because being educated and thinking critically are against MAGA norms.

All the middle fingers up to that group of assholes. Read and watch Wicked -- it’s a spectacular story, and it has a relevant story to tell you now.

[solarflicker]

I support women’s wrongs (Elphaba in the book)

[belamourelysianlimerence]

Just saw WICKED

Oh. My. OZ!

[ace-fandom-dumbass]

Just got home for winter break

With Wicked exploding i decided to reread the book and went to find it on my shelf

Currently haven't found it but I apparently have two copies of the second one

So uh, I want to know where the second copy came from bc i dont remember buying it twice, and hopefully I'll find the first one, but who knows, maybe I'll finally get around to reading the second one