#which apparently is very rambly
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gingermintpepper · 3 months ago
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Okay, let's finally talk about EPIC's Apollo
I feel very compelled to say, first of all, that I do not dislike Epic. In fact, I am very fond of Epic and have been following its production and status very eagerly! I attend all the launch streams, I watch all of Herrans' update videos; I am, at the end of the day, a fan and I want it to be known that my words are spoken out of love and passion as much as they are spoken from a place of critique.
So really, what my problem with Epic's Apollo?
In the briefest possible terms; the choice to have Apollo be defined by his musical aspect in God Games is thematically strange. And not in the 'oh well in the Odyssey, Apollo was important to Odysseus and his family so it's weird that that wasn't kept in Epic' strange, strange in the sense that Odysseus' character arc since My Goodbye has been getting more and more obviously Apollonian and so it is positively bizarre that when we get to meet Apollo, the god seems entirely disinterested in him and his affairs. So much so that he is not even defined by any station that would indicate that he has been watching over and protecting Odysseus and his family.
What do I mean by 'Odysseus has been following an Apollonian arc'? I'm so glad you asked!
Remember Them is the last song in which Odysseus explicitly uses his sword until Mutiny where he must use it to defend himself against Eurylochus' blade. He uses it to help enact the plan to conquer Polyphemus and, due to Polites dying in that battle, Polites who wished for Odysseus to put the blade down entirely and embrace a post-war life, Odysseus also retires his sword. This is an action that symbolically separates him from Athena - and the image of Odysseus as a traditional warrior set for him in Horse and Infant - as much as My Goodbye physically separates him from the goddess and her war-ways - from this point onwards, Odysseus will no longer be leaning on Athena's wisdom or methods to solve his problems. Likewise, he will no longer be able to rely on her protection.
Odysseus thusly solves most of his upcoming problems through diplomacy and avoidance. He approaches Aeolus - a strange and ambiguous god (both in gender and in motivation) and appeals to them for help. Circe too, he approaches not with wishes to conquer or for revenge, but for the safe returning of his men and an alternate way forward. In all of these scenarios, there is some Apollonian element which is subtly interweaved alongside the influence of other gods; it is with a bow and arrows that Polyphemus' sheep is slain (and thus it is this Apollonian element which is at the root of Odysseus' spat with Poseidon), it is a vision of Penelope that warns Odysseus that his men are about to open Aeolus' wind-bag, Circe's peace offering to Odysseus is to refer him to a prophet of Apollo who has since died.
In this way, Apollo is walking alongside Odysseus for all of his journey after Athena departs - even in the Underworld, he is guiding him. It is Tiresias' proclamation that is the last straw for Odysseus, it is by the power of a mouthpiece of Apollo that Odysseus decides to embrace his ruthlessness. It is with the bow and arrow that Odysseus subdues the siren who sought to trick him, likewise, Odysseus does not attempt to undermine or escape the fate of paying Scylla's passage price - he knows of the doom about to befall the six men and quite unlike the rest of the journey until this point, he does not fight against it. This all comes to a head on Thrinacia where it is a blade which sacrifices the sun god's cow and brings destruction upon the crew once more.
My point with all of this is that when I heard the teasers for God Games years ago, it made perfect sense to me that Apollo would be Round One - he is not Odysseus' adversary and has no reason to oppose Athena's wish to free him. From other teasers about what will happen in the climax of Epic, Apollo will still be walking alongside Odysseus - it is Apollo's bow that Penelope will give the suitors to string. Likewise, it is Apollo's bow that will prove Odysseus' legitimacy and identity. That bow will be the power by which Odysseus hunts his adversaries and cleans out his palace - it is Apollo who is the avatar of Odysseus' ruthlessness, not Athena.
So tell me, truly, what was the point of having Apollo raise a non-argument in God Games? Why have him appear unconcerned, aloof and slightly oblivious? Why have him appear in his capacity as the Lord of Music at all?? And if the intention was never to make Apollo an active player in Odysseus' life like he was in the Odyssey, why keep Odysseus as a primary archer?
The answer of course is that Apollo is inextricable from the fabric of the Odyssey - his influence and favour exudes from Odysseus just as much as Athena's. In Athena's ten year sulk, it would have been Apollo who kept Telemachus and Penelope safe. It would have been Apollo protecting Odysseus from Poseidon's gaze as he travelled the seas (according to the Odyssey anyway)
Forgive me for not being excited about something that I thought was being purposefully set up. I was extremely ecstatic about all of the little Apollonian details that litter the sagas because I know where this story ends up (loosely) but all God Games did was reveal that maybe those Apollonian details were not intentional at all, but merely the ghost of the Apollo who persistently haunts those he favours, even if he cannot explicitly come to their aide in an adaptation.
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kirby-the-gorb · 2 months ago
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luck-of-the-drawings · 9 months ago
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OH ARTHUR BENNETT.. such a gorgeous and intriguing character. terribly burdened by a GRUESOME set of crimes, his light suffocated by a HEAVY century of GUILT. so tragic, so dark and broody, and yet PAINFULLY awkward in any social setting ever
#jrwi fanart#cw blood#jrwi show#jrwi suckening#arthur bennett#OUHH THIS ONE WAS SITTING IN MY WIPS FOR SO LOOOONGwhen i took it out there was mould on it :sob:#BUT i think i was able to fix it up okay#i keep seeing SO MANY MISTAKES RRAAAHHH BUT YOU DONT SEE THEM RIGHT?? THATS ONLY ME. RIGHT?? EXACTLY.#THE KEY IS TO SAY. AND REPEAT AFTER ME. 'FUUUCK IT WE BALL#so anyway. arthur bennett huh? grizzly says that arthur is reaal fuckin difficult to play. and i SUPER get that. i mean LOOK AT HIM..#grizz often needs a minute to think abt what hes gonna say in a way that matches w that Stoic Personality. which is FAIR but also that#ends up making way for awkward confrontations like: the lady in the parky lot. he took too long to answer and scared her away.& I LOVE THAT#arthur is tragic and sad and cool and stoic but hes ALSO awkward and silly and kinda dumb and short sighted. HE HAS COMPLEXITIES#I LOVE WHEN TTRPG CHARACTERS HAVE A GOOD SET OF SHORTCOMINGS. ESPECIALLY WHEN U FIND THEM ONLY AS U PLAY THEM.#I COULd go on and on saying the same things w different words abt arthurs intriguing and entertaining character but i shall spare u. for no#ILL ALSO MENTION HOW MUCH I LOVE HIS FLAVOR THO.. I LOVE TALL HOT BOY WHOS ONE W THE DARKNESS.. I REMEMBER WHEN HE FIRST MENTIONED THE#BADLUCK. N I WAS LIKE OOOHH THATS WHY HIS DESIGN IS SO COOL N CHAOTIC N ASYMMETRICAL. HES UNLUCKY!!! i love love love his design so much...#GRaaauruguguraguhhghghgh what else what else is there for me to spew on abt...i think im reachin a limit here..OH MAGNUS. i hope that#we get to know more abt how magnus and arthur met.. like How they became besties... ouuhh... I ALSO WANNA KNOW MORE ABT MARY DAVIS. LIKEHOW#he also apparently spent alotta time in a zone dominated by edward twilight? all he remembers is constant partying? I WANNA KNOW MORE..#i think i got room 4 one more ramble SO. THE ART PIECE.as i said its gone a lil stale BUT. im still very proud o the bits where hes allScar#I WANNA SEE HIM GET SCARYMORE. I like the idea of shadows solidifying to make him strange and eerie.like TEETH n CLAWS n SPINES n YESS#also the SILVER EYES.no1 does silver eyes like the show Claymore. they make em look so striking and eerie...i also like to think that#human arthur had deep beautiful brown eyes.just in my beaitufl heart.i mean look at him..i wanna cook him n eat him.ANYWAY#i think thats all my ramblin for this piece. now i gotta go cancel a single day i had ata hotel bc my work schedule change last minute FUCK#feel free to ramble in my tags aswell tho i read all of them and i chew on thenm and i love them so sos os mcuh
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kooki914 · 5 months ago
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At long last, she makes her debut, My interpretation of the mayor - Clarice Holiday!
I very heavily leaned into the stricter/meaner interpretation of her, because that's essentially all we have confirmed about her in the game rn. Hence, her design is also very deltarune-esque, I tried not too lean too heavily into my own style it in order to keep the vibes consistent with the game. Hopefully I succeeded!
Headcanon(?) dump under the cut! (it's really long)
She's very direct and to the point. If you talk for more than 10 seconds at a time, she'll tell you to either get to the point or shut up.
She has a decently pleasant sense of humour, but you wouldn't assume it based on how she usually talks. Rudy usually makes jokes for the both of them, often as a way to distract Clarice from whatever she was slowly getting pissed off at. Seeing her genuinely smile can be weirdly relaxing, though, like a weight's been lifted.
As mentioned in the accompanying image, she runs on a very strict schedule, for basically everything. If you tell her "I don't know when" for something she will personally make you a timetable for that entire day and be EXTREMELY mad if you don't follow it to the letter per her insistence.
She's kind of superficial - never lets her grey hairs show and never leaves the house without a full face of makeup.
It's mostly a side effect of two of her worst traits: not being able to accept change, and always feeling the need to be in control. These are like habits she can't shake, and pointing them out only makes her agitated and less willing to listen.
Both of these flaws only got worse after Dess disappeared.
Even before then, she always had very high standards for both herself and her family. She was always doing her best to not only project the image of a perfect family, but to fully embrace and embody it.
It's why she's so trigger happy with taking away things from Noelle and Dess she isn't personally invested in. Video games that scare Noelle or "encourage bad behavior" in Dess, any non-family friendly movies, any overly creative and artsy pursuits that she doesn't think would make a good career path in the long run.
Basically the only thing the whole family can agree on is Christmas, hence why their whole image as a family unit is centered around it - it's another projection of the seemingly perfect household.
Clarice very intentionally manipulates and intimidates the people around her to get what she wants, but she genuinely doesn't see it as a particularly bad thing because she's convinced she knows better than everyone else, and is the only one who can "properly" do "the right thing".
She's extremely competitive, even more so than Toriel. They used to bond over that in college, though the only reason Clarice never held a grudge is because Toriel can actually let go of useless competition and let Clarice win basically every time.
Clarice can’t let go of useless competition.
Unironically the only person who saw the flaws in Toriel and Asgore's relationship from a mile away and always thought Toriel should’ve dumped Asgore years ago. She likes talking about how she "knew it all along" and how Toriel should've "listened" to her, etc etc. If Clarice wasn't so petty about this maybe her and Toriel would've stayed close.
“It’s a dog eat dog world” is essentially her unspoken motto. She doesn't say it, though, because she doesn't like when people pick up on her more Machiavellian personality traits.
Clarice always looked down on Asgore for his lack of ambition, which only got worse when he failed to find Dess when she went missing.
The only reason she’s giving him so many chances to pay his rent is because Rudy’s insisting on it, though Clarice hasn’t told him that Asgore’s living in the same building he’s working in. If asked, she'd say it's to "not hurt his feelings", but in reality she just doesn't see their friendship as important enough to help maintain, even indirectly.
That whole debacle made it REALLY easy for Clarice to essentially blackmail Rudy with whatever she wants by using evicting Asgore as a threat, a potential retribution for not getting what she wants. She doesn't do it very often, but the fact that she pulled that stunt even once isn't a good thing.
Their relationship wasn’t always so toxic, though there were red flags from the start.
She really enjoys flattery and things that play into her grandiose idea of herself - she really does like when Rudy complements her and plays along with her games (even when he says things that border on objectifying), but PART of that game is that she always berates him for it or calls it childish or unnecessary, in order to keep up her "untouchable" persona that he's so attracted to.
She loves him in the way a child loves their favourite toy. He goes everywhere with her, they do everything together, and he essentially acts as both her voice of reason and her comic relief sidekick.
When he's not around, Clarice is even more miserable and demanding than usual. When she's not around, Rudy doesn't know what to do with himself and stresses over things that aren't even there. They depend on each other, but it's not healthy, and out of the two of them, it takes the biggest strain on Rudy.
In the bigger-picture sense, it's taken an even bigger strain on Noelle. Clarice is arguably the biggest reason why the poor kid doesn't know how to say "no". Her mom does everything and hardly lets Noelle get a word in. She has to be both fully self-sufficient to live up to her mother's demands, while ALSO fully relying on her like the obedient daughter Clarice wants. Rudy mediates the situation however he can, but admitting that Clarice is HURTING Noelle is nearly impossible for him, because it'd mean admitting that Clarice has been hurting him, too.
Clarice takes great pride in both being a hard worker and a “great” mother and wife all at the same time. She IS the ideal, as far as she's concerned. Any questioning of this will get you metaphorically killed on the spot.
Most people don’t see her problematic behavior for what it is because, by most metrics, she’s “made it”. She’s wealthy, she has a loving family, she has an important and high ranking position. What more could you really want out of life?
She still hasn't accepted that Dess is gone.
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romance-rambles · 7 months ago
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modern clarence | an appropriate staring distance
While at the beach, you take a moment to appreciate your handsome boyfriend while he's taking a nap—and also when he's not.
1.2k, fluff + established relationship, reader is mc, series: none
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NAVY BLUE STICKS OUT TO you the moment you open your eyes.
Your aching shoulder protests your decision to stay as you are, on your side, facing a still sleeping Clarence. Like this, he looks much younger—you're reminded of the time you had to force him to take a nap. Like this, he's simply the cute guy you managed to score not one but multiple dates with, just Clarence, instead of the incredibly smart and wonderful and kind Student Council President.
You glance at the circular table set between your two beach chairs, taking note of his glasses resting primly upon its surface. With him often having to juggle two different kinds of glasses, you'd offered to put them in your bag so that he could pack lighter. Or, as light as he can.
Right now, it's awkwardly squished behind you, miraculously still on the chair only because it's too big to fall out the gap under the armrest.
Filling in the blanks comes as easily to you as the smile on your face when you get to see your boyfriend, nearly the same one on your face right now—and the expression that goes with it is so endlessly fond that you find yourself with the urge to hit something.
Simply put, your boyfriend is a handsome man—the most handsome one, of all the men your keen eyes have gazed upon. And gazed, they certainly have. But even if they didn't have to pick, then they would gaze at only Clarence for the rest of their life..
You almost giggle at the thought, but think against it at the last minute.
But pressing your lips firmly into a thin line has the opposite effect on your budding smile. You imagine you look rather strange to anyone who passes by—what with your mockery of a wide smile and the silent scream building up in your throat, paired with the quiet thumping of your feet against the legrest.
If you were in a more private space, you would resort to kicking instead.
A proper squish to your still warm cheeks as you begin to sit up helps ease up the passion swirling chaotically across your body. You exhale, then allow your hands to slide off your face. One side of it bears the consequences of your actions more than the other.
With a one last longing at the sleeping Clarence, you start to dig through your bag for the only thing in your arsenal that could substitute for a sketchbook.
There are a few miscellaneous promotion emails waiting for you on the lockscreen. A message from Cael asking about dinner tomorrow too. Somewhere between them, there's a notice about the weather, with the temperature from an almost hour ago listed uselessly.
You swipe past them all and hurriedly slip into the camera app.
The hand holding your phone steadies itself against the armrest as you swing your legs over the edge of your chair. A thumb hovers over the capture button, vigilantly awaiting your command. The fingers of your other hand, meanwhile, busy themselves with zooming in on the captivating scenery.
With each pinch, the focus grows ever narrow—until all that remains is Clarence and nothing else.
At one point, you try to zoom into the mole under his eye, but it doesn't make for a very compelling photo. After a few attempts, quite a few of which involve staring at your screen for prolonged periods of time, you reluctantly give up.
Your pout is soon covered up by your phone. When its front camera presses against your upper lip, your gaze is free to wander back to the sleeping beauty beside you once more.
A healing effect, exclusive to him, takes hold of you instantaneously.
Eyes brimming with fondness narrow slightly. You slide off your beach chair, hands on your bent knees as you take a closer look. You can make out the shadows cast by his long lashes and the drool dribbling past his chin.
He's perfect.
You're content to stay there until your knees begin to ache, reminding you insistently that this isn't a very comfortable position to be in. As a compromise of some kind, you adjust your arms atop the nearby armrest.
It really would be better if you'd brought your sketchbook along—but, you think, remembering his workaholic tendencies, would he even bother to take a nap then?
You scrunch your nose up at the thought.
In that moment, Clarence seems sense to your presence. When you look back at him, you're greeted with the sight of confusion in his now opened, but still drowsy gaze. He blinks, and it earns him an amused grin from you.
"Morning," you say, though it's well into afternoon.
That seems to wake him up. His cheeks flush a warm pink, and he hurriedly wipes away the drool on his face, as though you haven't already committed the sight to your memory.
Clearing his throat, he responds in kind, careful to sit up in such a way that he avoids looking at you.
"You don't have to be so close...I can see you just fine."
You laugh, not unkindly. "What if I'm the one who's having trouble?"
For a moment, when he turns back to look at you, he looks alarmed. Then, his shoulders relax to the tune of a sigh, his groggy mind apparently having caught onto the fact that you were joking.
Without breaking eye contact, you reach for his glasses. But as with the issue of walking into a cave without a flashlight, even if you vaguely recall where your destination is, there's no guarantee you'll actually reach it.
"Give me a second," you mutter, your annoyance making your tone a bit too sharp.
You follow your words up with an apology. His glasses held are carefully by the frames as your sheepish gaze connects with his faintly amused one. Clarence reaches out, getting as far as grasping the slanted tips of the frame before the two of you reach a mutual agreement.
"Well." His cheeks return to being a rosy hue. He coughs politely. "If you would."
Cute. Biting your lip giddily, you shake his grip off. A quick once-over of your surroundings before you stand up shows that no one seems to be paying attention to you. And unless your friends and acquaintences have come to together to unlock the secrets of invisibility, no one you know seems to be present either.
Leaning over, you line his glasses up against his face, the tips of his frame brushing against his cheek. It takes only a moment to slot them into place—and you have enough experience with doing so that they don't snag against his ears.
It takes only a moment longer to give him an innocent peck on the lips.
"There," you murmur, not entirely satisfied with the kiss.
His Adam's apple bobs. Clarence adjusts his glasses with an awkward look that suggests he has some kind of solution to your dilemma. You, of course, beat him to the punch.
"Why—" Your voice cracks a little. "—don't we go find a different spot?"
He smiles, narrowed eyes watching you fondly. "I was about to suggest the same thing."
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#fics by aya#lovebrush chronicles#lovebrush chronicles x reader#for all time#for all time x reader#clarence clayden#clarence clayden x reader#lbc clarence#lbc clarence x reader#lovebrush clarence#lovebrush clarence x reader#rambles from here on (slight spoilers for azure island cgs/mentions of cn cards) ->#so. um THE CGS?? from the event?? very specifically clarence's??#um that killed me actually i'm learning stuff about myself i didn't know before like#idk actually because i've been telling myself glasses are sexy but it took an anime boy being flirted with for me to realize that yes??#but yeah i am THIS close to going blue particularly because i've been staring at his cards too long and there is one specific like#artstyle? that makes him look really hot but like you could almost mistake him for a bad boy. and yes i do mean clarence#he has glasses so it's not. the one where he'd actually approach being a bad boy (the prison?? one??)#according to cn wiki it's supposed to come like feb but the schedule fast so idk#actually looking at it again and it might be how he parts his hair?? anyway clarence in a black t-shirt and dogtag(?) necklace sounds#like he would actually kill me. not because he's actually threatening but because i spontaneously combust whether he smiles or glares at me#also i just realized it's just like his unstyled hair so again having a thing for guys who like minimally style their short hair apparently#also i've figured out which card it is holy shit clarence
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nyaskitten · 11 months ago
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saw someone on twitter say jay is 'becoming more like cliff gordon' and i have never wanted to delete my twitter account and never open up the site more in my life... like jay, being a snarky asshole... is like his sexist womanizing scumbag fuckwad of a dad? i may hate jay, but literally NEVER fucking slander him like that again shut the fuck up.
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damfangirl08 · 3 months ago
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A day in the life with my family(illustrated):
Three of my siblings and my sisters boyfriend trying to get my cat to join them on the trampoline(note her expression)
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My mom petting our cat on the couch sayinh "is something wrong with you" with a baby voice(he usually doesn’t like cuddles)
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Me and @blueskybehindtheclouds bonding on a piano chair that barely has space for one person on a good day(honorable mention to our cat named chat noir)
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And last but not least this with no context im not giving context
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absolutelyfibulas · 3 months ago
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I didn't post about it at the time because I figured I'd wait until I had them up in a nice display but due to Reasons it's going to be a while before I get said nice display, so I figured I'd mention now that @candidcantrix is a lovely person who traversed little nerd shops in Japan to acquire me a birthday gaggle of Little Guys for which I am eternally grateful :D
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verflares · 8 months ago
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this all being said about the light dragon and how it is definitely the biggest highlight of totk (for me at least), i Do think a lot of the reaction to it Is dependent on botw and zelda's characterisation from that game... a lot of which is kind of lacking in totk because of her more passive role (e.g. you are told about her + see her actions after they have already happened)
like. if you didn't already really like zelda and were sold on her relationship with link (and not even just from a shipping zelink perspective, like. just UNDERSTANDING they have a strong bond from everything they've gone through together) then i'm not sure if any of that stuff in totk would've hit as hard as it did. the game does very little to build on what we already know about them, which i think is both a letdown to new players (which. i am not sure why they are playing the sequel before botw, but that is how totk acts most of the time lmao) and returning ones, and as time goes on it's become harder for me to blame people for not caring for it as much.
what a truly odd game
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ritz-writes · 4 months ago
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so my big sister is moving out tomorrow and hhhh im rlly emotional about it. so i was distracting myself with genshin and was like "oh i need primos to try and roll for kaveh. ill do some of the story quests i have unlocked"
the one i chose just happened to have a scene with the siblings
immediately started crying
what r the fucking odds 😭
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quatregats · 8 months ago
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This is probably Bush and also Pullings's native dialect (though I have many MANY doubts about what exactly the methodology being used here was)
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unfortunatelycake · 1 month ago
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Old enough to be nostalgic for the late 90s when around this time of year all manner of little booklets would start to arrive in the post from companies selling Really Useful Gifts and Cool Stocking Fillers and you'd go through one and find stuff to pester Mum to buy for you to give different family members and the other to find stuff to pester Mum that you wanted and that's basically how Dad ended up with a new wallet every year even if he didn't need one and you ended up writing 'SPACE PEN' on your Xmas list every year because you were definitely going to be an astronaut one day
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volfoss · 2 months ago
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Everyone loves me and I'm so so so employable<- affirmations
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mokagachas · 10 months ago
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As someone who knows nothing about Oberon but loves your art: where do I start if I want to understand your love for the man?
oh man. oh jeez ( wheezing ) haha okay. uhm. erhm. i didnt expect to get this far uhm ( shaking )
so here's the problem: oberon is from lostbelt 6, a chapter in hit gacha game fate/grand order. you can play f/go if you want and chug along to lb6 - which is unfortunately a chapter 6~ years into the game's main story. but i cannot with any sort of conscious recommend a gacha game to people.
so playing the game is one option. option two is checking out atlas academy database, a website that has all of fgo's stories and such conveniently catalogued! click 'main story' on the top of the page and it'll give you just, well, the main story.
if you want to watch the stories themselves - which at least for lostbelt 6 i highly recommend because the OST is amazing - there's also this commentary free LP on youtube that i've linked to people!
that being said that is still a lot of words to get to lostbelt 6, so- if you don't want to read everything pre-lostbelt 6, i recommend going to the typemoon wiki and reading the summary on each story pre lostbelt 6 ( so, up to lostbelt 5.5 ). just click on the link in each chart and you can find a detailed beat-by-beat summary of each chapter.
i've been told that, in all honesty, that lostbelt 6 is still enjoyable and easy to understand without full context for the outside story beats. it certainly reads like a fairly self-contained story outside a few things needed to understand why some characters are here in the first place, so i've been considering writing up a summary on just those key points / the premise to the lostbelts so that people can read that and then jump right into lostbelt 6 and love oberon...
hopefully this was helpful in any sense of the word heehe ... if you need clarification with anything feel free to send another ask !!!
lets all love oberon!!! lets all think about oberon!!!!!!
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muppetminge · 3 months ago
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May I ask what do radfems think about men wearing makeup? Or alternative subcultures where makeup is considered androgynous? For example goth and emo come to mind as quite common ones?
(I know you can't speak for everyone, but I've seen you post about makeup before)
i don't really have much opinion on men wearing make-up tbh (much as i don't re any individual women). the mechanisms behind it aren't the same, so it's not really comparable. there's no widespread social push for men to wear make-up, they're not being considered unprofessional or nonformal or underdressed for not wearing it. no one's arguing with a guy that he has to wear make-up for this and that occasion. men aren't being marketed it constantly. you don't have to look far and wide to to find a barefaced man in media (or, indeed, on the street). any obstacles a man might face due to wearing make-up is an entirely different (and here largely irrelevant) conversation (though of course still linked to misogyny + homophobia). in theory degendering make-up would be a positive, though i don't see that happening any time soon - and even then it would have to be achieved by more women actively not wearing make-up, not a handful of guys doing it.
i do think there's a certain disctinction to be made between 'everyday'/natural make-up and alt make-up, but not a giant one. it's still not particularly healty. it's also a misnomer to call make-up androgynous in most (if not all) of these subcultures imo - both the extent and styles differ, and it's still more women wearing it than men. the average emo guy is not spending the same amount of effort on make-up as his female counterpart. natural make-up is definitely worse in this regard, but i still think there's something inherently alienating about covering up your own face near-constantly.
it does discern itself slightly in that alt culture is obviously about rejecting social norms (while beauty culture is about following them), but it's naive to act like beauty culture isn't still influencing alt norms to a big degree. nothing exists in a vacuum. just because you're not following the trends doesn't mean you're not taking the ideas behind them in. alt makeup can still be about covering up 'blemishes', trying to achieve the appearance of a certain facial structure, etc - striving after a certain beauty norm, in short. cultural norms in alt spaces are still influenced by general cultural norms (i'd also argue that a lot of the trends aren't actually that different). they're not particularly less mysogynistic. (there's also something to be said about the commodification of alt cultures, but i won't get into that here.)
i'll acknowledge that the expression is different, though, and i do think there's more weight to the self-expression angle here. overall i do actually prefer seeing more 'out-there' as opposed to 'natural' make-up. there's something more active about it, in that you're not just playing along with the expected. no one's being coerced into doing corpse make-up or whatever. it's more conscious. i am a big fan of originality, of breaking norms, of not playing along, and of breaking trends. take that how you will.
tl;dr i don't think either have big enough societal influences to really matter in the big picture. while interesting, all of this is a minority of cosmetics use, and a fringe group of beauty culture as a whole. they're truly a drop in the ocean. thank you for the question.
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weed-cat · 3 months ago
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#in the kindest way possible i think that some of your guys' queer microlabels are predicated on incorrect assumptions#about what is or is not typical of most people's gender and attraction.#you can call yourself whatever you want.#but just be aware that Straight and Gay and Transgender and Bisexual and Man and Woman and Nonbinary and other 'boring' labels#have always held capacity for more nuance and diversity than you've even thought to imagine#rigid definitions of queerness are a new and generally unhelpful development in the history of our community#and i promise that people before the internet era didn't just all have a simpler relationship with gender and sexuality than we do#again. you can call yourself whatever makes you most comfortable. that's the goal.#it just makes me feel weird when people demand or assign microlabels to historical figures or celebs who have not IDed themselves#or strangers on the internet/in their class.#apparently at my brother's very progressive middle school there is such a culture of everyone needing to neatly label themselves#that he just picked a sexuality to tell his friends even though he doesnt know#(which is pretty crazy because my middle school experience was only a decade off and a few miles#and there was definitely still homophobic bullying. but anyway)#i doubt that that's an uncommon story considering how you can log into tiktok#and find pages run by 11 year olds confidently stating a list of queer labels#people absolutely do figure out that they're queer/trans/gay at that age to be clear. kids been be queer and know it and that's incredible.#what makes me worried is kids feeling like they have to scramble to figure themselves out and clearly identify themselves to their peers#so they can be neatly categorized and as an expected virtue signal#<- is aware that this still isn't a problem in most parts of the world and that this is a much better problem to have#than homophobic bullying and internalized homophobia/transphobia#idk I'm rambling here
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