#what you think tho
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the-cat-and-the-birdie · 1 year ago
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Clarification before I attempt further discussion. Once again,
Y'ALL MAY I HAVE YOUR INTERPRETATION:
SO YOU THINK THIS WAS JOKE - MEANT AS AN INSULT OR NOT?
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Why I ask -
I've been discussing Peter B. Parker a lot lately and the motive behind some of his actions, and notably throughout the post I mentioned Hobie disliking or even hating Peter.
And yeah, that's kind of what I assumed, based on this line.
But some people I've been talking with have expressed the exact opposite - they believe this line shows that he does like Peter, and that he meant it completely as a joke.
And Hobie does joke a lot, he's a warm guy - but why would he call Peter a 'Humbling Reality' - and is that meant as an insult, or a welcome to a friend?
If I'm correct, this line is the ONLY line Hobie ever speaks towards Peter.
So did you think he meant it as an insult? Or a friendly joke?
Here's why I took it as an insult:
'Humbling Reality Spider-man', MayDay, and why I think Hobie and Peter aren't friends at all.
First, Hobie makes no other deprecating jokes AT ALL throughout the movie.
Hobie is a very casual, very laidback guy (most of the time..) - and he's known to joke around with the people he's close with. But when we look back at all his other jokes - NONE of them approach anywhere near as neutral or negative as being a 'Humbling Reality'.
Hobie affectionately calles Gwen 'Gwendy'. And he even calls Miles 'Peter Pan', despite not knowing them. Pav is 'Madlad Pav' etc.
No one else but Peter gets this kind of..I don't know.. backhanded? I never took 'Humbling Reality' as a good thing, I took that as being 'so depressingly average and mundane'.
And being average and mundane is not something Hobie would call someone he's particularly fond of.
Even those he feels neutral on - Miguel and Jess, he doesn't address this was. He just chooses not to engage with them.
Hobie had every chance to walk into Miguel's lair and make a comment like this, but he didn't.
To me that showed that Hobie's feeling towards Peter differs from his feelings towards people like Jess and Miguel as well as Pavi and Gwen.
Hobie calls people pet-names. This doesn't seem like a pet-name
Second, Tone.
I don't know, I always read this tone as unusually dry for Hobie.
Usually when making jokes so deadpan, he's speaking about a situation, not a person ("It's a metaphor for capitalism." / "A bit much, innit?"). And even when speaking to Jess, his tone is more casual than this line to Peter.
We see how Hobie approaches someone like Pav, which clear excitement, warmth and proximity. But this is completely absent towards Peter.
Hobie makes no attempt to move towards Peter or further greet him in anyway.
Third, Peter's Reaction.
Hobie says that line LOUD. You hear the echo.
And Peter just ignores him. He doesn't laugh, he doesn't look at Hobie, he doesn't mention him at all in the scene.
And that's not to say 'oh, Peter secretly hates Hobie and wants to ignore him' -
I just think that Peter didn't take that as a full-on joke. Or rather he didn't expect a warm welcome from Hobie. Because they aren't close.
Throughout the whole scene Peter ONLY addresses Gwen and Miles.
While Hobie says one line to Peter - one that isn't even clearly that friendly - Peter says nothing to him, not even stopping to pat his shoulder.
Based on the fact that Hobie and Peter are BOTH touchy, I feel like that in itself shows that they aren't friends. Both of them are the type to greet their friends when they enter a room, but neither do. Not properly anyway.
They seem to be acquaintances at best - or with my assumption that this was an insult, less than that.
I mean, Hobie is still a teen, he's still a friend of Gwen's. Peter has every reason to treat him warmly, or openly greet him.
But Peter makes no attempt at all to be like "Hey Hobie, what's going on."
Whether or not you think Hobie hates him is one thing, but I feel like Peter's reaction, and how he disregarded the comment without being shocked or responding in any way shows:
Hobie has said stuff like this to him before, and it's not too shocking
Him and Hobie aren't nearly as close as him and Gwen, and they aren't friends enough to greet each other.
Hobie & MayDay
I've also seen it mentioned that Hobie's connection with MayDay shows that him and Peter are friends.
And I can absolutely see where that conclusion comes from, and it holds weight. I just..kinda have to disagree on the basis that even if Hobie openly disliked Peter, that dislike wouldn't extend to MayDay
Even moreso, If Hobie didn't like Peter, but took good care of MayDay, and MayDay very clearly liked Hobie - which she does (she jumps into his arms, Hobie doesn't pick her up) - then Peter does not seem like the type of father to separate them.
Notice how every time Miguel or Miles is holding MayDay, Peter is talking to them, commenting on how they're holding her, showing them stuff. But when Hobie is with MayDay...nothing. He says nothing to him.
It even goes farther.
When Peter is showing Miguel, Gwen, and Miles photos of MayDay, he makes no attempt to show Hobie.
We know Hobie loves MayDay, but Peter doesn't show him photos of her. Despite showing Gwen, Miles, and Miguel, quite excitedly.
Because I'm assuming him and Hobie are NOT close like that. And/or Peter knows Hobie would not appreciate him getting close to him and shoving a phone in his face.
Miguel is clearly annoyed and Peter even shows him, while not approaching Hobie - who is clearly in a good mood.
Once again, I think that shows that Peter and Hobie are not friends, even if Hobie likes interacting with MayDay and does it well.
I assumed that Peter lets her be around Hobie because he trusts Hobie, not that they were friends.
And the final nail in the coffin Peter isn't enthusiastic about MayDay going to Hobie
This is something I JUST realized on a rewatch, but it lines up so well.
So this scene: Peter is getting ready to change MayDay. We see Hobie standing on MayDay's left and Peter on her right.
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[LMAOOOOOO LOOK AT HER I'M WEAK]
MayDay swings towards the right of the screen, aka her LEFT - the direction of Hobie. We as the audience don't see what she's attaching her web to. But she has to attach it to something and she's going towards him.
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And Peter pulls her back. Doesn't really say anything or look at Hobie, he just pulls her back.
Then, MayDay goes again, this time bouncing herself into Hobie's arms. MayDay chose to go to Hobie - and like I said before, Peter isn't gonna separate them, if that's what May wants.
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But that's not the thing - regardless of whether you think MayDay was going towards Hobie or not - in the shot we see Peter puts his hands on his hips, watching Hobie, and he shakes his head at him.
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You can go back to the scene and check, because it really is so subtle and I genuinely only caught it while employing my autistic Hobie sight and staring at them intently.
But he does shake his head, letting Hobie have her. I suggest you go watch it back for yourself, but in my eyes Peter's slow headshake doesn't really seem like the 'Oh, you!' type.
In the next shot we see of Miles, Gwen, Hobie and Peter, MayDay is back in Peter's hands and that's the end of the interaction. We don't actually see them speak, only trade off MayDay.
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If they did say anything, I'd KILL to know what they're saying cause like...
idk for both of their characters it feels like such an odd interaction to me
The whole scene, both him and Hobie interact with the people around them, except each other.
And it's only after MayDay literally LAUNCHES herself into Hobie's arms that Hobie and Peter even approach or look at each other.
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I've spoken at length about why I think Hobie would hate Peter - mainly for his open neglect of Gwen and his failure to step up as her mentor, his betrayal towards Miles, or the fact HE RATTED MILES OUT TO LYLA (how else would she have know to look for his location? That's one analysis I'll STAND on.)
But whether or not you believe Hobie hates him or whether Hobie has the capability to openly hate someone like that (he does.) I feel like everything I said here is a clear indicator that they are not friends or close.
The one on-screen line between them is vague on Hobie's end and completely ignored by Peter. Peter leaves Hobie out of his activities when showing photos. He shakes his head when MayDay fights her way to Hobie, and only looks at him when Hobie is giving MayDay back.
From my first watch, that kinda made me assume that they're just not close - despite them having Gwen in common.
And combining that with the 'Humbling Reality' comment, I took that as a sign that it's not that they don't know each other. They just don't talk like that.
And that made me ask why. Which led to all my other speculations.
But that's just me.
Did ya'll take the 'Humbling Reality Spider-man' thing as joke? Do you think they're friends, or no? (Not if Hobie hates him - just if you think they're friends/close)
What do you think the situation is?
I'm curious. Let's open the floor.
Is they beefin or nah I gotta know cause that would be funny as hell
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demaparbat-hp · 21 days ago
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He truly did.
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keymintt · 1 year ago
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a comic/zine about coyotes
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bacchuschucklefuck · 3 months ago
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no more fan-ta-sizing about it! everything's already changed~
#dimension 20#fantasy high junior year#fhjy#figueroth faeth#riz gukgak#adaine abernant#fabian seacaster#gorgug thistlespring#kristen applebees#fh class quangle#my! class swap thing! I guess this is like the poster for it now#got overinvested and finished it properly instead of winging it lol#in closeup order: cleric!gorgug; bard!riz; rogue!fabian; sorcerer!kristen; barbarian!fig; artificer!adaine#this one does have the harpoon gun I'd give fabian during sophomore year but literally only figured out for this piece lol#I like how it looks tho Im glad I hashed it out#thinking abt power armor adaine a lot tbh... she has the transhumanist audacity. she's villain-adjacent enough#to attempt unspeakable acts of body improvement#(its funny bc to wear a rig like that would Also demand a certain level of physical strength from you)#also yeah this is the thing with riz holding a megaphone that got me considering#its fun! it fits the aesthetics! maybe it'd grant him range for bardics#maybe he gets to keep that Im just not sure how he'd carry it around lol#fig gets to have all of her makeup... I like almost never remember to draw it usually kdsjfhdjk listen. I just forgor#I always forget makeup is real#also dont ask me what's in kristen's thermos it Is usually tea but you truly never know#sometimes its soup. it can be lighter fluid. soap perhaps. hot chocolate#also if u come knocking on my door abt kristen's somatic in this piece: I wont be home#she gets to be gross especially bc shes funny and 17yo and gay. we give it to her#okay I. whoo I should lay down. finally I can move on to other things#cheers! wahoo. yahha perhaps
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doomdoomofdoom · 2 months ago
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Kamala Harris does want "transgender surgery on illegal aliens that are in prison", btw.
So since Trumpists are getting mad enough about the jokes to actually cite their sources, I thought I'd put the source out into my left extremist commie faggot echo chamber, too.
The claim originates from an ACLU questionnaire she filled out for her 2020 presidential candidacy, specifically this section:
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She wasn't given a new questionnaire for 2024, and has stated that while her policy on some things may have changed, her values had not. (This most likely means she moved more to the center to appease larger demographics and cut corners to reach compromises. The basic politician stuff.)
It boils down to this: If you're in prison, whether for "illegal" immigration or other crimes, you rely on the state to provide you with necessary amenities, like food and health care. Her argument isn't "hell yeah everyone in prison should get sex changes for free". It's "gender affirming surgery is a necessary medical procedure. If you are in the states care while this becomes necessary, the state should provide it." If you're outraged by your tax money being used on this, consider the massive amount of people being incarcerated in for-profit prisons, on your dime. Then ask yourself if maybe a prison reform might be in order.
Worth noting: In 2015, while Attorney General, Kamala Harris actually argued against providing gender-affirming surgery to an incarcerated trans woman, claiming that HRT and psychotherapy were sufficiently covering her medical needs. She has since obviously changed her stance and assumed responsibility. (I would like to take this moment to remind my fellow left extremist commie faggots that "willingness to learn and rethink your views" is infinitely more valuable than "perfect from the start and unwilling to listen to anyone")
Also found in the source: This image of Kamala Harris participating in the 2019 San Francisco Pride Parade, wearing what I believe to be a sequin rainbow embroidered denim jacket.
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I encourage you to read the provided CNN article and the answers to the ACLU questionnaire, as they give great insight into her values.
TLDR: Based.
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ninjasmudge · 5 months ago
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bought the dlcs, ive been doing naked crusade runs on my new save and it cracks me up every time
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inkskinned · 2 months ago
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we were sitting on the floor and i was cutting out tiny pictures to make a collage for a friend's birthday. you were on your phone and you laughed about something, and i was still in love with you then, so i asked what had you giggling.
"sorry. i was just..." you took a moment and went back to texting. "i was telling someone about how you're afraid of the dark."
i'm afraid of the dark because something bad happened. "oh." i felt a little slinky of shame crawl down my throat.
you glanced up, and maybe it showed on my face, because you rolled your eyes and held the phone to the side casually so i could see the group chat. "what? was it a secret?"
i looked down to the scissors in my hand. "i just..." no, it's not a secret. it just felt like something private, something serious. saying why would you tell someone that just feels like an accusation. it's unfair. i honestly am not even ashamed of it, it's just a fact about my person that i don't usually share.
what a strange experience. is this a human thing or a generational thing? for our grandparents: did they need to worry about how quickly someone can just... share your personal information? again, i didn't even really have a true objection. what could i say? i want any person in my life to feel they can be honest with their friends. it's not like i said don't tell anyone this.
i cut out another letter to complete the rainbow happy birthday, started hunting for the exclamation mark. i heard you sigh dramatically.
"don't make a big deal about this," you said.
this entire conversation was a pattern for us, and this was when we got to my least favorite part of the pattern. i would get my feelings hurt in some oblique not-technically-terrible way, and then it would be making a big deal about something. you'd get frustrated for me for being soft, but i was born soft. you knew i was soft when you pierced me. it's one of the things that made controlling me so easy.
"i'm not," i felt my voice crack. the question came without my wanting. "why are you guys talking about me?" and why are you saying that thing? why not like - i'm telling them how you're generous and kind and pretty.
you let out this low, tragic groan. "oh my god." you tossed the phone away from your body. "there, see? i just won't talk to them if you don't like it."
the rest of the hour went the way it always went, between us: i said i don't actually mind if you talk to your friends but -, you found a way to call my minor expression of discomfort "being dramatic." you got upset that i had been offended. i ended up apologizing, even though i hadn't actually done anything.
afterwards, you picked up the phone again. after texting for a little bit, you snorted. "okay," you said, "but it is kind of funny you're afraid of the dark. i mean, when you think about it."
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captain-krow-drozdov · 3 months ago
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Danny Is An Alternate Version Of Ra's Al Ghul And Flash Already Called Dibs On Adopting Him
Danny In All His Sleep Deprived Slightly Scuffed Up From A Fight Glory Is On His Way To Clockworks Tower To Hopefully Get A Nap And Maybe Some Homework Done When A Natural Portal Opens Up In Front Of Him And Proceeds To Unceremoniously Drop Him In The DC Verse Just Outside Of Central City Before Promptly Closing Leaving A Tired Danny Behind In A Run Down Abandoned Parking Lot.
It's Times Like This When Danny Regrets Putting Off Learning How To Make His Own Portals, Cause Now He Is Very Much Stuck For The Foreseeable Future And He Has No Idea Where Or When He Is. Luckily For Him However Central City Isn't Too Far Away, Unlucky For Him However Is That Once In The City He Realizes This Isn't His Dimension. He's Pretty Sure He'd Remember Something Called The Justice League.
So What Do You Do When Supernatural Bullshit Fails You? You Fall Back On Your Mad Scientist Roots And You Make A Portal Gun. So That's Exactly What Danny Plans To Do.
Unfortunately Staying Alive And Building Questionably Safe Portal Technology Requires Money And Supplies, So He Ends Up Wandering From City To City Doing Odd Jobs/Fixing Up Busted Tech For Cash Or Unwanted Electronics For His "Operation: Get Home" Needs. This Obviously Ends In A Few Superhero Encounter Shenanigans.
Though He Always Ends Up Back Near Central City, Both On The Off Chance The Natural Portal Will Open Up Again And Because Out Of All The Superheroes That Apparently Exist In This Universe The Speedsters Are His Favorite (Red Robin Is Solidly His Second Favorite Ever Since The Gotham Vigilante Gave Him A Large Coffee Filled With Enough Caffeine To Kill A Man).
Unbeknownst To Danny However Is That Every Hero/Vigilante He Has Encountered Has Come To At Least One Of The Following Conclusions; 1. Run Away Meta Who Is In Desperate Need Of A Good Meal/Adoption Bait. 2. Possibly Red Robin/Tim Drake Clone 3. A Good Kid But Could Possibly Be A Future Rouge If Left Unsupervised. 4. Did Bats Get A New Kid And Why Is He Here?
All Flash Knows Is That He Saw The Kid First And Therefore Has Dibs. Suck It Bruce.
Fast-forward A Few Months And Danny Gets Hurt During A Rogue Attack While Trying To Help Some Civilians Get To Safety (Old Hero Habits Die Hard (Ha Die Hard) And All That Jazz) And He Nopes Out Once Everyone Is Safe And When The Paramedics Are Busy With Other People Unaware He Left A Blood Sample Behind.
One DNA Test Brought To You By Paranoid Bat Concerns Of A Possible Red Robin Clone Later And They Find Out That Dannys DNA Matches One Ra's Al Ghul.
They Now Think Danny Is An Escaped Ra's Al Ghul Clone.
Memes For The Vibes:
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#captain's posts#this has been haunting me#the flash/any of the speedsters:*exist*#danny:*can feel the speedforce on them* i like your vibe funny man#basically danny is actually an alternate version of Ra's Al Ghul and gets chucked into the dc vesrse#because natural portals are bitches hijinks ensue#and while i do love batfam adopting danny i think its very funny for flash to just yoink him while the big bad bat isn't looking#i desperately need him and tim to be besties tho specifically before they find out danny is an alternate Ra's Al Ghul#danny:*sitting in a park and tinkering with some circuitry* oh hey flash :)#flash: hey kid! great news i might be adopting a kid soon!#danny: oh really? thats cool-#flash:*holding out adoption papers and doing his best puppy eyes* its you. sign here.#danny:*vague memory of clockwork complaining about speedster pops into his mind* hmmm#danny:*deciding to be a little shit cause what else do you do when you're almost a year into being stuck in an alternate dimension* >=)#danny: sure why not? soooo full name or what?#flash:*didn't expect to get this far* uh-#i also really like danny being clockworks apprentice/time line clean upper so danny just remembers cw bitchin about the speedsters#also cause im a sucker for tim x danny...#tim:*having a crisis cause the cute meta kid he befriended/has a crush on may or may not be a vlone of Ra's Al Ghul* aaaaasaaaaaaaasaaaaaaa#dick: you okay buddy?#tim:*aggressively points at the dna match of danny to Ra's Al Ghul on the bat computer* AAAAAAAAAAAAAA#dick: Oh-#dc x dp#dp x dc#dp x dc crossover#dp x dc prompt#dpxdc
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lmaowh-at · 1 month ago
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Lanns n Starks lineups/costumes sketches that I will probably add other houses to. Tywin and Joff & the rest aren't here because I was lazy and Cerseis dress took all of my energy. Don't ask me about inspiration or historical basis for these
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buppkizz · 1 year ago
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tf2 karaoke! 🎤🎶
(here's a list of the referenced+a couple extra songs)
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aliosne · 7 months ago
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Saw a post about working class butches in physical labour jobs and wanted to make my own, so: I love you butches who do childcare or early education. I love you butch nurses. I love you butch house cleaners and janitorial staff. I love you service industry butches. I love you butches who do sex work. I love you working class butches who do “feminine” jobs you are cool as hell
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aunmenosheteroenespanol · 8 months ago
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2.12 Chimney Begins - 2.09 Hen Begins - 2.16 Bobby Begins Again - 7.04 Buck, Bothered and Bewildered
Tommy's family arc
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meamiki · 5 months ago
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silly comic based on a time i struggled to read live on stream :thumbsup:
context clip compilation below ASDASDFASA
(cw for brief mention of hospitals/strokes)
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francy-sketches · 7 months ago
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cringe ass family ❤
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bacchuschucklefuck · 6 months ago
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soon it'll be dawn again
transcript under the cut ⏬
page 01
Fig: no way? - you're still up?
Riz: Wh– yes?
Riz: Why'd I not be.
page 02
Fig: I me~~ean - that took.
Fig: whole day.
Riz: Yeah?
Fig: 'm beat.
Riz: you should sleep.
page 03
Fig: nah. my guy's still up
Fig: I wanna hang out.
page 04
Riz: That's really nice.
Fig: Hah! - Nobody ever expects an Archdevil rockstar to be nice.
Riz: … yeah. - 's just budget work tho. (the stuff I'm working on) - I've heard it's boring.
page 05
Fig: yeah, but you do it…
Riz: It keeps things going, right? - Nothing happens if nobody sits down and - does the thing.
Fig: That's right… - though. Yeah.
page 06
Fig: sometimes it's someone else who - doesn't want the same thing to happen.
Riz: … - mm.
page 07
Riz (off screen): …It took me a long time to get that not everyone likes doing what I do. - 's probably because you guys are so nice– - or. - kind.
Riz (off screen): to anyone too, not just. - the people you /love/.
page 08
Riz: that's not how it is elsewhere. - The world's– not. hostile. - but 's not like it's kind.
Riz: So I'm doing as much as I can now… 
page 09
Fig: Hey.
Riz: ?
Fig: Go dig some dirt with me.
page 10
Riz: [blank speech bubble] - oh you meant like - actual dirt. (not incriminating information)
Fig: o yea.
Fig: there's clay in the backyard soil. - sometimes when I'm sun deficient or something I go touch dirt for a bit.
page 11
Fig: here u go
page 12
Riz: uh
Fig: now we make a thing! - 'm pretty good at freehanding a bowl.
Fig: I'll show u
page 13
Fig: just– yep, flatten that out as evenly as u can, then–! - actually ur nails'd be so good at cutting out the strip. [larger than usual space] wait. - wait. wait u can carve patterns with them! we HAVE to try
Riz: uh - What. do I carve?
Fig: anything!!!
page 14
Fig: and– yep just seal the inside uh. seam?
Fig: yep that works - okay time's up! all contestant hands up
Riz: [blank speech bubble] - okay - wh. what's next?
Fig: haha - watch this.
(sound effect text): FWOO—MP
page 15
Riz: WH– DON'T JUST DO THAT???
Fig: Now it's fired!
Riz: THAT WAS NOT SAFE
Fig: (actually it's just dry. if u add water rn it'll dissolve)
Fig: ok catch!
Riz: [blank speech bubble] - careful!!
Fig: dw no need haha
page 16
Riz (thought bubble): oh - it's warm…
Fig: now I want you to throw this.
page 17
Fig: u gotta do it - c'mon
page 18
Riz: wh– - It's like 3AM right now
Fig: oh it's not /fired/ fired it's not gonna make a loud noise
Riz: And then just? leave a pile out here?
Fig: pour water over it & it'll be gone I told u
Riz: but
page 19
Fig (off screen): RIz.
page 20
Fig: I've done all this before.
Fig: Can you trust that at least?
page 21
Riz: no, I– - I do. - I trust you.
page 23
Riz: okay what happens now
(sound effect text): glob
page 24
Fig: we do it again!
page 25
Riz: wh. [larger than usual space] What do you mean. (this clay's too wet also)
Fig: see! you're already learning
Fig: [blank speech bubble] - there are flows that are futile to fight. - The world changes.
Fig: Things change.
page 26
Fig: I've learned my lessons with "forevers". - But - as an artist
Fig: I can give you one thing: - You can always do it again.
page 27
Fig: most of everything depends on the rest of the world, - but this. - making new. - that's yours as long as you want it.
page 28
Fig: So?
page 29
Riz: Yeah. - Yeah! - let's make another one.
#dimension 20#fantasy high junior year#fhjy#riz gukgak#figueroth faeth#technically no spoilers in this comic but listen. I Will be gloating in tags. I will Never Shut Up#for the record!! this was fully conceptualized and sketched Before the finales. I started sketching this after the boat fight#and when murph closed riz's arc this season with ''maybe it's okay to change and welcome new things'' I pogged irl#I am simply the best at reading comprehension what can I say! (<- grown ass man with roughly the same perspective on teenhood as the player#fucked up that this became so long (almost 30 squares lol) that it took me this long to finish#lmao I say all that but. genuinely I am delirious and my feelings abt riz's arc this season are so big... I was getting psychic backlash#for a While lol. it was scary!!#had to sit down and do therapy on my own ass for a bit. the teenage apocalyticisation is real. that word isnt tho Im pretty sure#truly anything you do at that age feels like that's it that's all you've got going on forever. and its not true! its simply not true#you'll be okay my guy. you love your friends so so much but also there will be more to love out there#this one goes out to fellow aroaces and also folks leaving somewhere theyve called home for a long time#nothing lasts forever but that means new things come by too! ur ability to make new is infinite!!#there's no magnum opus people leave but new people come by too etc. I am too sleepy to remember what I wanted to say uhhh#well. thank u for looking at my art. I think thats the one pack it n ship it boys
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duckysprouts · 7 months ago
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hey very important to me and me alone, is roy doing ok in your big brother au? if not ok tell me that he’s alive at least because I love him and hope he’s just chilling at home with baby lian waiting for dick to get his shit together
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this is the only universe i’ll ever make where roy harper is the last person to worry about
my man found his calling as a stay at home suburban dad
not everything is great of course, there is some lore regarding that ring, but roy harper is a determined masochist if nothing else and jade has a thing for pathetic men
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