#too bad he's being a bad influence
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exhibit A of why Gold should not be trusted around children
#cookie run kingdom#cookie run#crk#captain caviar cookie#Gold Choco cookie#rookie cookie#fan cookie#cookie oc#he's fine!#srry it's just that after a few folks tried pushing the idea of Gold being a parent in any way... The reality was too funny not to draw#He's a bad influence in the safest environments#an active danger even incidentally in the others#just#don't leave your children with him
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Leo getting hit with a truth curse but instead of forcing him to admit to super sad or worrying things it’s things like “it was me who broke the remote” “I saw Mikey prank Donnie and helped hide it because it’s way funnier if he didn’t know who it was” “I rip my clothes to look more like Raph’s because he’s really cool” “my stripes aren’t even red they’re pink!”
#rottmnt#rise of the teenage mutant ninja turtles#rottmnt leo#rise leo#plot twist he COULD be admitting angsty stuff but he’s pushing the less oof truths forward instead on purpose#raph: hey leo what do you want for dinner#leo: *about to bare his soul on all his internal torment but pivots* I’m afraid of snakes#(no but fr Leo’s stripes being technically more pink instead of red is cute ngl)#(a very reddish pink to the point that in certain lighting it looks red but at the base they’re p pink)#(i also am very fond of the idea that Leo doesn’t just have questionable taste in fashion he also just loves Raph a lot and looks up to him)#but yeah I think that something like this would be 99% Leo admitting to unimportant things or admitting to how much he values everyone#like they all KNOW Leo loves them and he’s talked them up enough for them to know but it’s different when he’s like#‘I just wanna read my comics with you guys around - it’s my favorite place to be’#or again just random bs that doesn’t REALLY have a lot of weight like#‘I like using my portals to prank random people around the world’#‘I’m worried about being a bad influence on hueso jr’#‘sometimes I kinda wanna see hypno’s plans succeed’#‘it’s been way too long since I found this out and honestly it’s embarrassing but I actually don’t have a di-‘#SORRY COULDNT HELP MYSELF#(<-but did u know that that pink rather than red observation actually ties into this headcanon as well if u know about red eared sliders)
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ep 43 had me tearing up in a fucking shopping centre ‼️‼️
b+w alt version that I truly couldn't decide if I liked it more . Also I included a lot of thoughts in the tags but they're somewhat incoherent<3
#i dont know what i expected but i was waiting for a friend and too excited to wait until later#malevolent podcast#john doe#john doe malevolent#john malevolent#malevolent fanart#grimm art#ep 43#ep 43 left me with a lot of thoughts ... i didnt quite like how much of a recap it felt like at times but that might#be because ive been relistening and like yeah everyone knows that john 🙄 but that's not the case for everyone and with monthly uploads#things get forgotten easily#i find the discussion of “humanity” so interesting because John has shown that without someone that he has forcibly grown to value as an#equal... something he cannot do as the king of yellow as he is superior to all of his realm and presumably stays out of other elder god's#anyway. without that equality and enviroment to grow he fails to reach his goal of compassion and falls onto old ways.#John. The King in Yellow. shown by both times each has found themselves in human form do not just crave power and influence!!!#THEY CRAVE COMMUNITY!!! an endrich being not born or raised with nothing but power and ego#CRAVES COMMUNITY.#His goal of “humanity” is not a selfless goal like John projects - it is ultimately somewhat selfish as he does not want to be alone!!#which makes this desire so much more human#i don't know maybe this is just me spelling out whats already there but the way john and the witch argued about humanity frustrated me#it felt like they were missing the point or that perhaps the “good/evil” “black/white” retoric was already realised by me and john needed#realise it himself . which is fair !!!#i dont know!!!!#the witch was talking about how bad everyone was and how humanity is cruel and john was talking about Lily (#who also frustrates me how shes used in the plot somewhat she was literally just a nurse doing her job bro#) but to John - yes internally he is struggling with his moral greyness and im so proud of him for growing being himself SO PROUD#JUST.!!! he wants community. he needs community. he loves his friend. 'humanity' at its core does not matter as long as you try to be bette#and i think thats awesome and i really enjoyed the episode#guhh im rambling enjoy my tag rambling i dont know i want john to have more friends :(#yorrick can be another friend godd i love you yorrick so silly
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friendly reminder that Neteyam is a well-adjusted kid who has a good relationship with his parents, that he tries his darnedest to be a good warrior because he genuinely looks up to his dad and wants to be like him, and that the idea that Jake and Neytiri are "forcing" him to be perfect, that they "stole his childhood" or that he's "not allowed" to be a kid, etc. are all pure fanfiction with little to no evidence in canon thanks bye
#avatar#avatar 2#neteyam#given how hesitant Jake is to let Neteyam fight I can absolutely GUARANTEE you that there was almost certainly NEVER an interaction...#...in which Neteyam said ''hey Mom and Dad I'm gonna go hang out with Lo'ak and Kiri now''#and Jake and Neytiri reply ''no son you're too old for such childish things you must come do Adult Tasks that you secretly hate instead#so you can be the Perfect Future Olo'eyktan™"#THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN#AND IT'S NOT “IMPLIED” TO HAVE HAPPENED EITHER#Y'ALL MADE THAT UP IN YOUR HEADS#along with the idea that Neteyam secretly hates his lot in life and is internally yearning to be A Normal Kid™#guys Neteyam WANTS to be a warrior he WANTS follow in Jake's footsteps he strives so hard because HE *WANTS* TO OF HIS OWN ACCORD#there is absolutely d i d d l y s q u a t that suggests this path is being “forced” on him#or that he is being secretly ~crushed under the pressure~ and Just Wants to Be Free or w/e#you. made. that. up.#it's not a canon aspect of his character#and. look. if you wanna explore the idea of him being ''crushed under pressure'' in a fanfic#because you find it interesting or it helps you work through your own stuff then hey be my guest#but once you start saying stuff like#''oh i feel so bad for [canon] Neteyam because he died before he could break free of his parents' toxic influence''#Shut Up™#neteyam's parents were not a toxic influence; he was never forced into being something he didn't want to be; his childhood was not “stolen”#he did not have anything to “break free” of. you are injecting extra layers of tragedy that aren't actually there#you are giving yourself extra grief for things that were never canon#stahp#feel free to write whatever you want in fanfiction but please i am begging you#to be aware of which ideas are actually present in the movie vs. which ones are just fanfiction
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Growing closer than expected (Patreon)
#Doodles#Pokemon#Kabu#Larry#Firebland#Silverstreakshipping#To the shock of no one this is Zarla's fault (lol)#Bad influence! Too inspiring! Stop this! I'm totally not culpable for Being Inspired for the [X]th time now definitely lol#I kept finding little ideas popping into my head with them and I mean if I've already doodled them Once I guess I could try a couple more#Learned them just well enough to keep finding things for them pft#Although I am surprised by just how easy I find Larry to Draw - not necessarily that I'm fully Confident in drawing him yet but like#There's very little struggle to the shapes I put down here and I'm fairly pleased with their configuration haha#Kabu on the other hand!! Why is he so hard to draw!!! What!! Like I know his clothes are complex but no his face!#He's got a really cute and difficult-to-draw face! Why! I cannot figure him out#It's probably the do with the shape and size of his head...his hair........ I really enjoy fluff and he's Kind of but Not Really fluffy??#And his white streaks aren't intuitive to me - but Larry's floofs are??? I don't know#The only thing I can figure it that I Kind Of draw Dexter the same way - Larry's streaks are like an exaggerated version of how I floof Dex#And then a suit is second nature by now but I've already talked about my difficulties with Kabu's clothes lol#Didn't stop me from putting him out front for this hug tho! It's cute... Kabu asking Larry to come play with him but Larry has stuff to do#May or may not have felt a little that way myself - made most of these doodles during Requestober haha so busy!#The brightly shining brilliant glow boyfriend setup-payoff returns ♥ He glows like a fire! Overwhelming!#I still really love that glow cutaway style around the low-bouncing flower haha - just don't draw there and it gives the impression! Fun :)#Hugs <3 Unsurprisingly been in the want of cute fluff and sweetness and hugs were very on the menu#It really is fun to think of Larry being just a Little weird about how much he feels for Kabu#Acting childish as that part of him hasn't had the chance to grow and mature! Stuck awkward and gangly in otherwise full development#Feelings so big and strong and immediate for the first time in too too long <3 Gotta express them all somehow#And ending off with a bit of silliness haha - was Kabu prompting him just to hear such an answer? Who knows ♪#Larry just too straightforward haha - why else would he do or say things unless he felt like it! Pfsh obviously#Haha
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current song mood:
feeling the "forgive me I'm a fucking fool/absolve me of my sins, won't you?" now that Sylus is on my main screen again...
#personal#lads sylus#love and deepspace sylus#lads caleb#love and deepspace caleb#just need sylus to hold me from making bad decisions#bad decisions being caleb's entire influence lol#he makes it too easy to fall#flume never be like you#tbd
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love thinking kipperlilly spends her afterlife looking for lucy in a familiar forest
#not art#fhjy#fhjy spoilers#like. does she have a mean of knowing lucy and yolanda got sent to cassandra's domain to hang out for a bit#kipperlilly's isolation means so much to me. she is punished for everything she's done she just doesn't pick up on it#until the moment she dies! one more funky thing that mirrors riz in which he's actively tried to cultivate a community and denied it#until the bad kids. while kipperlilly does not want or care about a community she just wants someone who validates her#but she does Need a community so she latches onto the person she lets closer to her to fulfill her emotional needs#she took the ritual willingly so this might genuinely be her first death. probably terrifying#probably not even enough bandwidth to feel mortified. maybe immediately seeking something comforting out of instinct alone#lmao honestly thinking too much abt fantasy high afterlifes gives me a headache And a visceral fear#Im not religious but I grew up in a culture with a dominantly buddhist/taoist cosmology its Scary that u just go to A Place after u die!!#and then ur still urself!!! thats scary to me what do u mean u stay like that forever. thats fucked#but yeah I think this influences how I see kipperlilly turn out a little bit. in a sense I think of her as being a ghost now#yknow. trying to solve something from life so she can move on and. stop living this life etc#man the reveal that lucy took being killed pretty seriously and is like yeah the others are decent and even sweet#and probably was just trying to hold her party together and do what she thinks is moral by hearing kipperlilly out#lol lmao etc. gods I gotta wonder how kipperlilly's mindset handled jawbones' help#it really is damn tragic tho. I stand by what I said folks like this will complain and be nasty to be around#but they dont have enough desire to inconvenience themselves to off the bat do something abt what they find unfair or whatever#its when theyre handed the seemingly very easy means to be right that they'll start being dangerous#its horribly tragic that the supposed metaplayer and the self-perceived mastermind turned out to ultimately be just an useful idiot#yknow what. I think personally in my heart kipperlilly moves on from her afterlife the moment she says sorry#doesnt even have to be to lucy but that's probably gonna be who received it#ah.... teenage rebellion. teenage gamejacking
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Alright-y, so in case anyone missed it, we've recently gotten some information from Quackity that he's most likely doing some new project, that seems to involve multiple languages, once again. Kinda like QSMP?
Maybe EXACTLY like QSMP…????
Or maybe not
Basically, the way I see it, it is pretty likely that this is QSMP-Related, what with the images that he's been posting recently, with the GODDAMN EYE GUY
However, even if it is QSMP-related, there is something that would need to be addressed
And that's that it's incredibly unlikely we'd be getting QSMP back in the form we knew it as
Honestly, I don't really see many of the Admins returning, Egg or otherwise. Whether it's by their own choice, or the choice of the powers-that-be. And I think we all know that all the Admins, Egg or otherwise, were a huge part of what made QSMP special
In addition to that, there's also a chance that with that sort of outcome, a lot of the Creators wouldn't be coming back either. I could kinda see some of them not returning even if the Admins DO come back. I know a few of them had more sour experiences with QSMP than others did, and I couldn't really blame them for not wanting to give it another shot
So even if this is QSMP, there's a HIGH chance it won't be the same server we knew
But I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. After all, I'm pretty sure the Eggs weren't initially MEANT to be as big as they were, which means that there HAD to be some plans for other stuff at one point or another
Hopefully…
Now obviously this is ALLL just, as usual, ✧˚⊹SPECULATION~!⊹˚✧
I'm not a psychic, and I don't know jack-all about what's been going on behind the scenes regarding QSMP or anything Quackity-related. I'm just making educated guesses and reminding everyone to temper their expectations, and try not to be too disappointed if this isn't exactly what you were hoping for
Because even if it isn't, I think it could still be something pretty fun, and I'll probably at least give it a chance regardless of whatever it winds up being
(Except maybe Purgatory 3, because I think I had enough of those vibes during my recent Purgatory 1 Re-Watch)
…
(Oh who am I kidding I'd probably end up checking out Purgatory 3 at least once I have a problem okay???)
#Personally I'm not sure I could be as invested if certain creators didn't come back#Namely Philza#Do I think for sure he wouldn't return?#Idk#But he didn't show up for the finale for reasons unknown#And that kinda makes me think he isn't likely to join back up#Though I could very easily be wrong#Or have just missed whatever reasoning he gave for not being there#Not to mention a lot of the other creators had their own lore finales#That they'd have to essentially undercut if they wanted to return#And of course there's the treatment that a lot of the (specifically French) Creators got#Like I'm pretty sure Baghera was consistently having troubles for one reason or another#Whether it was because of fans#Or just certain stuff going on in the server#A lot of the other French Creators got a lot of harassment too#With I think Aypierre (or Antoine) leaving twitter just a couple days ago because of it#Not to say it was limited to JUST the French Creators#I know that there was a lot of vitriol for the Portuguese-speaking part of the fandom at one point and that SUCKED to see go down#I guess at the end of the day there's a lot of room for negativity#And there was a lot of negativity in general that could influence how things go from here#But there were some good things too#So I think we just need to make sure to acknowledge both the good and the bad moving forward#If there is a forward from here#Guess we'll see huh??#qsmp
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Pretty fucked up that timmy forgets the only positive influences in his life after his 18 birthday when you think about it
#like he losses the only family that loves him and friends and allies that respect him#outside of aj and chester he doesn't have a lot of good influences in his life#trixie could probably be his friend after she gets over the whole popularity thing but still#losing that muc of your memories is going to affect yoyr personality#if they were replaced he's probably going to think he was alone for most of his life with occasionally seeing some friends#and some good moments (him making frinds with chip and maybe might remember mark depends)#umm does Shirley count? doubt he would remember him unless he goes to his shop often#i doubt his relationship with his parents would improve hed probably move out not to long after he turns 18#i think the memory wipe would affect certain aspects of his personality too#like his interest in the arts would probably lesson due to the feeling of something being missing or just#straight up depression#i feel like he wouldn't persue a creative field due to multiple of reasons and settle for something more practical but will always have tha#what if oh timmy forgetting and losing himself is something so tragic#especially if he still miserable or in a bad place#imagine the angst#timmy turner
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i seriously need more narumi and mina moments because just imagine the relief mina felt when narumi joined, similar age to her and was also considered a prodigy in the force.
to have someone to share the burden of the defence force’s future with must’ve felt so freeing. because before he joined it was just her, age 18, being told that she was going to change kaiju extermination with her exceptional synergy with firearms. and she was so, so scared.
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narumi doesn’t have the kind of skills or talent for long range combat like she does, but he’s also a top candidate (despite his behavioural issues- which aren’t much of a hinderance anyway) and mina doesn’t have to carry the burden of the future alone anymore
(although she’d never admit, given she probably views narumi as someone completely shocking i just think it’s so funny how she stood there like O_O when she first saw him)
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like i LOVE seeing the contrast. mina who was sent onto the battlefield for the first time and was deathly afraid vs narumi who was sent out and immediately took action because that’s how he always lived (fighting)
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and now they’re the top two strongest captains in the force and they will be the ones to lead the new generation..
#egg boils#IM SOOO BONKERS SORRY THEYRE MY FAVES I WANT THME TO HAVE AN IMPACT ON ESCH ORHEF SO FUCKING BAD.#consider this: narumi teaches mina to be less serious. to stop holding onto the burden of others and her team mates and Fight because she#wants to. hold onto ur weapon clench ur teeth because you WANT to be here and protect lives and not because You feel like you have to ashir#and mina teaches him abt team work and yes you can work along but And maybe having to consider ur team members IS burdensome for u but isnt#it nice to have someone watch ur back? for someone to Help you narumi#please please show me how they’ve influenced each other I KNOW DAMN WELL THEY HAVE. I INOW IT. matsumoto please.#i will never be over mina and how genuinely AFRAID she was#ashiro mina my absolute beloved#narumi tells mina to stop being so freaked out all the damn time because you have your team mates don’t you?! always talking my ear off abo#about team work but you can’t even trust your own comrades?!#mina tells narumi that HE keeps acting recklessly because he doesn’t trust his team mates either!!! they’re perfectly capable too#ohhhhh i’m sick im sick i want mina to knock some sense into narumi and vice versa i want them to be the reason they trust their units to#SUCH a degree now. i want them to be the reason why they stand for their men so strongly (narumi immediately pouncing on no.9 when he showe#kikoru isao’s face. mina’s anger and appreciation when her unit stood their ground against no10.#mina#narumi#kaiju no.8#they’re my top two of course i’m making this shit up. i need it so bad bside please please please#i know she grit her teeth and got used to be alone when she subjugates from the roof top but CONSIDER narumi the delinquent but extremely#capable recruit being the one to show her how to live less in fear#i need a tag for them#don’t be stupid#okay that’s it that’s my tag#kn8 spoilers#sorry again. tagging for myself#narumina
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just read the new mutants issue where Charles chose to stay behind in space and my god the juxtaposition between Charles trusting Erik and Erik joining the hellfire club and wondering at his own trust worthiness. I wonder how much of Charles decision was him ultimately trying to avoid the fact that his first class had seemingly betrayed mutant kind and not be willing to face them and how much of it was Dani and Illyana's reaction to him having Karma mind control Illyana. the fact that Illyana was depending on him to ease her mind through limbo and in choosing to stay he forced karma to do it instead, probably fucking up their relationship in the process.
I love him, this is crazy, how much of this is him trying to runaway and how much is this him not trusting himself to fix things and how much is it just him trusting Erik?
i keep trying to put into words my exact thoughts about the sitch but there really is a lot for one issue aintit... oh charles you and your brain...
#snap chats#thats why we have tag rambles AHAHA#ok so to tackle things one at a time charles ultimately deciding to stay in space despite his expressed want to return to earth#obviously it was when lilandra pointed out if her sister took charge of the shi'ar then the universe- earth included- would be in peril#charles notes his position as a losing one: whichever choice he makes he loses#he goes to earth then the universe could be at stake/he stays in space he loses his kids#of course charles COULD just put his faith in the starjammers but is that a risk he wants to take ? evidently not#charles' reoccurring flaw is he's willing to sacrifice personal relationships for the greater perceived good#even lilandra acknowledges this- that charles' homesickness for earth was an inevitability just as she is indebted to protecting the stars#so now his ruptured relationship with illyana and co- esp right after comforting a split illyana last issue#we've seen charles act more coldly/rashly when he's about to lose people (i think of his first death with the og5 mostly)#i mean it's a key part to charles' chara that he doesn't favor mind controlling others and im sure he has the same regard for his students#he's aware of the damage it can do and in this instance- for one reason or another- he orders it to be done regardless#im sure he does this as a form of defense: if his kids are upset with him they won't feel too bad about losing him and it'll be less painfu#obviously we still see sam wish charles farewell and wish for him to come back soon but yk.. worthy attempt..#and it's not as if charles wants them to hate him ENTIRELY.. he's still touched by sam's goodbye no.... fickle man he is..#i dont think charles is totally afraid to confront the og5- its what made him want to return to earth with the nms initially#tho again.. could his decision to stay in the stars be influenced by that? that maybe he ISNT prepared to confront them like he thought?#who's to say... not me i dont got that psych degree yet..#erik being charles' trusted confidant definitely made his decision easier on top of that: i mean is he needed if he has a substitute#i think charles DOES wholly trust erik: charles really doesnt approach his x-men half heartedly. from his pov ofc#if he didn't genuinely believe in erik's potential he wouldn't have picked him; hes a comforting thought when charles decides to depart#'although i'm gone erik understands me and my goals enough to continue my work as good as i would have so i have nothing to worry about'#which. yk. makes the whole White King thing kinda awkward VJAELVJEAKL charles you fool#i have no idea how this saga ends though... tbh im only on ish 45 of NM i just read 50 and 51 to get context for this ask#so i can only wait and see how this saga turns out... once i finish reading house of m/secret invasion stuff jvLKEJKA#idk im tired and rambling dont pay attention to me.. ramblin bout charles' brain is a good day for me regardless if i make sense jVLAJ
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Gortash with Durge & their new partner
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#durgetash#you think he wouldn’t???#nothing would amusement him more than joining a fighting couple#espeically if he decides to be like “actually Dearest I think they’re right#and durge is like “excuse me???#their partner: “uh yeah#excuse you???#durge being ganged up on by his ex and his current lover lol#gortash#Enver gortash#this work beautifully for Gale or Astarion and gortash just enabling bad decisions lol#like yes become a god#why shouldn’t you become a vampire ascendant??? reach your true potential!#and redeemed durge is like STOP INFLUENCING THEM#Enver meets Shadowheart and just tuts because he was too late to corrupt her too lol
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Salieri’s whole childhood experience of being orphaned while prior having not so good relationship with his father, and then pretty much tutoring every willing person free of charge and leading charity concerts for any category of people makes him so admirable honestly
Man looked at his past experiences and said ‘no one’s having same shit on my watch’ and high key parented almost everyone he met or tutored in his life
I feel like no matter what class or amount of fucked up spirit origin Salieri always will prioritize children or teens be it humans or other servants. Even if it’s child like servants with adult minds he still acts on his parenting instinct without being insulting to other party (and they probably don’t even notice it until much later).
If anything even happens man will BEND his own already fucked up and extremely unstable spirit origin and even maybe overcome his own Innocent Monster/Man in Gray aspect to PROTECC and ATACC if it means young ones will be save
Salieri really be thinking he’s not that good of an any positive image of a mentor or god forbid parental/family figure and then the rest are like ‘you’re literally a perfect parent figure what the actual fuck sir—‘
#fate grand order#fgo#antonio salieri#man parents his own minions and every child he meets#be they orphaned or no he adopts them automatically#it’s his passive skill of EX level#salieri is literally being best teacher/parental figure out there without even trying to#salieri: I am a bad influence and not good at tutoring or being a parental figure to those children#says the man surrounded by happy children and teen servants like they’re ducklings following their duck mom#children be constantly addressing him either as uncle/papa/mama/teacher and so on salieri probably doesn’t even catch on that#he probably also parents half of adult servants too without others even realizing HDBJDNDJDJDJ#he’s the Grand Parental Figure#Idek it’s so funny and sad that a literal Avenger wronged by humanity as a whole is pretty much cares so much about others’ well-being
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Superman: uncertain and asking advice Wally: good and sound advice Superman: wow maybe you're right...
Kyle: hi
Wally: TIME TO BE STUPID COMPETITIVE
Superman: Kyle's presence is annoying. Not anything he's doing, no. Just that the second he appears Wally instantly turns from mature experienced superhero to childish brat again
#wally west#clark kent#kyle rayner#flash#superman#green lantern#justice league#a few heartwarming things: wally thinks quite highly of ollie#clark being lowkey placating and all interior design lost a genius wally lmaooo#kyle bringing out the child in wally (not always in a good way but you know probably not always a bad thing too)#do you think barry and iris watching over wally like kyle's influence on wally or not#anyway i thought of titling this something click-baity af like the real reason why superman does not like kyle#he makes wally dumb
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i think we all agree starlo is/would be good with kids. yes? yes. thank you
#undertale yellow#uty starlo#like. between being such a silly guy w clover#and also i think he bonded v well with kanako too…. (even if hes a ‘bad influence’ whatever. thats the fun of it)#i just think hes an awesome guy good with kids#what a gem
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"The division between the two families [the Woodvilles and the Nevilles] and their allies can be seen in the royal charters that they witnessed. Warwick, Rivers and Archbishop Neville of York, while serving as chancellor and afterwards, were fairly constant witnesses to royal charters and consequently often appeared together. This was not, however, the case for other family members and friends. From 1466 to 1469, if Scales or Woodville associates like Sir John Fogge, John Lord Audley or Humphrey Lord Stafford of Southwick witnessed royal charters, then members of the Neville group, such as John Neville, earl of Northumberland, or John Lord Wenlock would not, and vice versa. Discounting the ubiquitous Warwick, Rivers and Archbishop Neville, of the twenty-four charters issued between February 1466 and June 1469, twelve were witnessed by men associated with the Woodvilles, eight by men associated with the Nevilles and two were witnessed by no member of either group beyond the two earls at their heads and the archbishop; only two charters, both from 1466, featured associates of both families.
Such striking segregation of witnesses suggests that something more than simple convenience or availability was at play. [...] The evidence of these witness lists does show the extent of the split between the two groups from early in Edward's reign and of the need for political society to work with that cleavage in the heart of the Yorkist regime."
— Theron Westervelt, "Royal charter witness lists and the politics of the reign of Edward IV"
*This is specifically applicable for Edward IV's first reign; in contrast, the charters in his second reign displayed a great deal of aristocratic and domestic unity and cohesion.
#the woodvilles#edward iv#wars of the roses#richard neville 16th earl of warwick#my post#elizabeth woodville#Obviously I hate the idea of Elizabeth and her family being seen as a social-climbing invasive species who banished the old nobility and#drove Warwick/Richard into rebellion and dominated the government and controlled the king and were responsible for Everything Wrong Ever#but I also dislike the 'revisionist' idea that they were ACTUALLY just passive and powerless bystanders or pawns who kept to their#social “place” (whatever the fuck that means). Frankly speaking this is more of a diminishment than a realistic defense.#the 'Queen's kin' (as they were known at the time) were very visible at court and demonstrably influential and prominent in politics#and as this shows there DOES seem to have been a genuine division/conflict between them and the Nevilles during Edward's first reign#(which DID directly lead to the decline of Neville dominance in England though the maintained honored positions and influence of their own)#Especially since Edward's second reign was entirely void of any such divisions - instead the nobility were united and focused on the King#even Clarence and Gloucester's long and disruptive quarrel over the Warwick inheritance never visibly left its mark on charters#so the Woodville/Neville divide from the 1460s must have been very sharp and divisive indeed#And yes it's safe to say that Elizabeth Woodville was probably involved: whether in her own right or via support of her family - or both -#it's illogical to argue that she was uninvolved (even the supportive Croyland Chronicle writes that Edward was “too greatly influenced”#by her; she and her family worked together across the 1470s; she was the de-facto head in 1483; etc)#Enhanced by the fact that Elizabeth was the first Englishwoman to be crowned queen - meaning that the involvement of her#homeborn family marked the beginning of “a new and largely unprecedented factor in the English power structure” (Laynesmith)#This should be kept in mind when it comes to analyzing contemporary views of them and of Elizabeth's own anomalous position#HOWEVER understanding the complexity of the situation at hand doesn't mean accepting the traditionally vilified depiction of the Woodvilles#Warwick and the Nevilles remained empowered and (at least outwardly) respected by the regime#Whether he was driven by disagreements over foreign policy or jealousy or ambition - the decision to rebel was very much his own#Claiming that the Woodvilles were primarily responsible is ridiculous (and most of the nobility continued to support Edward regardless)#There's also the fact that Warwick took what was probably a basic factional divide and turned it into a misogynistic and classist narrative#of a transgressive “bad” woman who became queen through witchcraft and aggrandized a family of social-climbing “lessers” who replaced#the inherently more deserving old nobility and corrupted the realm - later revived and intensified by Richard III a decade later#ie: We can recognize their genuine division AND question the (false/unfair) problematic narrative around the Woodvilles. Nuance is the key.
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