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mageofcole · 4 years ago

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(ONE SHOT) I’ll try to explain the infinite DC COMICS

A03

In another world, The Flash dies a hero, saving the world. He sacrifices himself so that others may live, and he’s remembered as a figure larger than life; everyone mourns The Flash as a saint, a paragon of justice and kindness, but no one remembers Barry. No one remembers the mild and gentle forensic scientist who was at the core of who the Scarlet Speedster was. No one but the man he raised, and the man who had loved him.

In another world, The Flash dies at the hands of Professor Zoom. He dies, and his wife is dragged through time, never to see her friends and family again. He dies as he’s dragged into the Speedforce, and he becomes just another speedster trapped outside of time and space as the world goes on without him. In this world, no one knows that the Flash that follows him is a different hero entirely, they don’t know that the child their hero had raised and trained would have to grow up too fast after the loss of another set of parents. In this world, people mourn Barry Allen, the good, kind man with a heart of gold who died in a tragic accident alongside his wife.

In both these worlds, Hal hadn’t known he’d loved his best friend, or maybe he had known but had never worked up the courage to admit it until he was looking down at that plain tombstone and he realized he’d never have the chance. In both these worlds, Hal keeps losing, and losing, and losing until he has nothing left, and yet people still ask for more . In the end, he stands with nothing but hate and fear in his heart and a burning desire to make it right again. In both these worlds, Hal buries his best friend and loses half of himself at the same time. In both these worlds, Hal loses until he breaks, and he breaks others in return. He doesn’t die a saint, he doesn’t die a hero; instead Hal becomes the villain, and dies knowing he had destroyed any and all of his morals.

But this isn’t those worlds.

Here, when Professor Zoom appears, he targets Iris first. Here, he doesn’t drag her into the Speedforce, or into the future. Instead, he leaves the body of the fiery, gentle reporter where Barry can find it, bloodied and fully recognizable as the lovely woman Iris West Allen used to be. Here, Hal comes to the small house in Central, following the distress beacon his best friend had activated, to find Barry cradling his wife’s body, looking blank and numb, blood splattered across the room like some sort of morbid piece of art, and another body only identifiable by the yellow costume left slumped in the corner. He stands beside Barry as the truth comes out, stands beside Barry in the face of Superman’s disappointment and the loss of Batman’s friendship.

In this world, Barry kills Zoom first. In this world, Barry puts the costume away and steps down from the Justice League to make way for a younger generation. In this world, Wally becomes the Flash, but he still has a mentor to turn to when he needs help. Here, Hal refuses to be pushed away and stays beside Barry, and the reveal of his feelings comes naturally as they come together in more than one way. Here, it’s Barry who confesses first, who puts what they are into words and asks for more.

In this world, there’s someone to put him back together when Hal breaks. He has something to keep himself partially grounded when Coast City is reduced to rubble, something to help him lessen the weight on his shoulder and push away the demands placed unfairly on him. Here, he has a reason not to give in fully to the whispers in his ears, the desire for revenge, and the fear in his heart.

He still has a family to return to, so when the young Torchbearer comes to him, to ask him to let go of his fear, Hal takes his hand. He lets Kyle talk him down from the extremes, returns the rings he stole, and lets go of the illusion he’s built, because Kyle reminds him of what he still has, what he can still hold onto.

This time, when Hal dies, he has someone to mourn him, and when he returns, he has someone to welcome him. It’s not perfect, Hal still has a voice in his head, urging him to go further and further, to do more and more damage, but he also has arms to hold him back, and a warm, loving voice to talk him down.

He still has hopeful, wonderful Barry, who, in another world, would have just been a cold statue and a modest grave. He still has his children, who, in that other time, would have never existed. He has things to fight for, people to return to. Reasons to hide his bloodied hands so that he can protect them.

When he lands in the private backyard of the house he lives in with Barry and their family, he always lets the form of The Spectre melt away. He lets go of justice and retribution, lets go of wrath and redemption, to let himself be Hal again. He embraces life again, as gray melts away to tan, and green dissolves to the ever-familiar warmth of his father’s old jacket, and Hal choses this to anything Parallax or The Spectre can offer him.

“Papa!” A young voice shouts in excitement, and it’s only years of working with Barry that gives Hal enough time to brace himself for the super-speed missile that collides with his stomach. Nora Jordan-Allen beams up at him, all chubby cheeks and childish innocence. She’s always happy to see him, doesn’t understand what Hal had become, and loves him regardless of everything.

Hal laughs, scooping his daughter into his arms, kissing wind-swept brown hair as the four year old wraps her thin arms around his neck and kisses his cheek, “Hey there, roadrunner.” He rumbles, feeling that jumbled, hateful part of himself smooth out into something less painful. “Shouldn’t you be in bed, little lady?”

Nora pouts, and Hal can never keep up the mask of parental disappointment in the face of the big blue eyes she’s inherited from Barry, “Was waitin’ for you.” She whines, pressing her face into his neck.

Huffing fondly, Hal hefts the kid up just a little higher, resting her on his hip as he makes his way up the porch and into the house. It’s quiet, like it usually is this late in the day, when Jason and Jenny have been put down to sleep, and the sun is only a stretch of orange light streaming in through the windows as it sets and the moon takes its place in the sky. It’s peaceful, and it muffles the unending pounding of fear in his chest because Hal knows he’s safe here, in the little pocket of the world he and Barry had created for themselves. There’s memories in every corner, love in the walls, and the shadows don’t hold nightmares here.

They bought this place together, back when they’d learned that their family would be growing. Hal’s apartment in Coast City had been home for a long time, and Barry had made it warmer when he’d moved in, but it had been too small for the addition of a baby. Blue Valley had been a change from the coastal cities and beaches Hal was used to, a small, quiet midwestern town that suits them both just fine. It’s not like the big cities they’re both used to, and that helps.

It’s a new start, and Hal will always be grateful that Barry and Nora had been here instead of Coast City when it had been reduced to rubble. They’d been safe, in the little life they had been building, away from the dangers of their lives. He’s glad his enemies hadn’t known about them.

Nora whines a little when Hal puts her to bed, pouts, but he passes her her Green Lantern bear and kisses her on the forehead as he tucks her in. He knows the grumpiness is an act by the heaviness of her eyes, by how quickly she falls asleep, and for a long moment, Hal just stands there and stares. He watches her breathe, snuggled up under her covers as she clings to the bear Kyle had bought her as a gag but she had loved anyways. She’s alive, and healthy, and so many things all at once that it makes Hal feel weak in the knees.

A weakness, a part of him whispers, something for others to exploit until you’re ruined again. Hal would burn the world to protect his family, would destroy everything to keep them safe and happy. If anyone tried to use them against him, they wouldn’t live long enough to touch a hair on their heads because Hal would make them burn.

Gently, almost afraid that he’s taint her, Hal reaches forward to gently brush her hair away from her face, tucking the brown strands behind her ear to hopefully save it from getting chewed or drooled on, and he just sort of stands there, fingers barely brushing the shell of her ear. If they’d been in Coast City - Hal doesn’t know if even Barry would have been able to get them out on time, and it would have been his fault, because Mongul had chosen Coast City to send a message, knowing the Green Lantern that lived there, one of the Justice League’s heaviest hitters hadn’t been planetside.

The city has since been rebuilt, and survivors had returned, but Hal hadn’t been able to bring himself to go back. This is his home now; the small home he and Barry had bought together with the fenced-in backyard that might be a little on the small side, but private enough for Nora, and now Jenny and Jason, to play in without anyone seeing them use their powers. They decorated it together, filled it with photos of their families and enough love that Hal’s dreams are peaceful.

A peaceful enough life, a happy family, a nice house - things Hal never would have imagined for himself, but something he has regardless. He’s a bartender now, nothing like the pilot he had once dreamed of being, and there’s no adrenaline to chase, but he’s happy. He still flies, as Spectre, and he keeps his license, because someday he wants to take his kids up into the air and give them that piece of himself and his life. The sky is still a part of him, it’s in his blood, but maybe he can understand now, why his father had tried to tell him that there was more to life than just the thrill.

“How did it go?” The gentle voice in the doorway pulls Hal from his thoughts, pulls his eyes from Nora’s sleeping face, to see Barry in the doorway. His blue eyes are soft, arms crossed over his chest, and he’s leaning against the doorframe, a gentle smile on his face.

“Well.” Hal murmurs, stepping back from Nora with one last loving look. Barry opens his arms for him as Hal approaches, letting the other man slump into his arms and bury his head in his shoulder. “I missed you.” He says. It’s hard, keeping track of time in the world between life and death, and sometimes Hal finds himself away for far longer than he thought he had been, or not as long as he had believed. It’s hard to tell which until he’s back and can look at the date.

“Missed you too, glitter-glow.” Barry’s smooth midwestern drawl washes over him, taking with it the lingering tension still in his shoulders, and Hal wraps his arms around the speedster’s waist.

This is home, Hal knows.

(In most worlds, The Flash dies a hero and Green Lantern loses everything. But in this world, Barry Allen lives, and this saves Hal Jordan.)

#cole writes #dc #the flash #justice league #green lantern #barry allen #hal jordan #the spectre #halbarry #barry allen/hal jordan #hal jordan/barry allen #au #trans barry allen #halbarry kids

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flashfuture · 4 years ago

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I’m a bit of an outsider but it seems like the 90’s were a very paradoxical time for dc because from everything I’ve read Wally and Kyle’s runs are right bangers but like...I’ve also heard...other things about how other characters were written thats...less than flattering.

It’s okay the thing is lol that it depends on the character itself. The 90s was actually going to be a swap over and retiring period that well it didn’t happen. So here is my character break downs of the take over characters.

The Flash

Wally was a silver age character. He was Barry’s legacy and Flash was already a legacy from golden age Jay Garrick. Wally took over in the late 80s. Barry was gone and Wally took up his mantle. The Flash Team knew this was coming.

He got an entire series about himself settling into his own without really anyone to help him. Rudy and Mary were terrible. Barry and Iris were dead. It was Wally and some friends he made.

Wally remained the solo Flash until 2010 ish when they brought back Barry. But Wally is currently the Flash again and hopefully DC will stop harming my baby boy.

Batman & Robin

Dick Grayson was growing up. And post crisis Bruce went from a overprotective father who Dick wanted space from to an abusive manipulative father who Dick was essentially running from.

Nightwing was Dick coming into his own. Connection to Clark’s mythos. At this point Dick was both a legacy to Bruce and Clark.

But Robin oh Robin. That was a symbol that didn’t fit with their new dark(er) Knight. So Golden Age Robin had to die. But Dick is busy.

Well who was just Robin right before Crisis? The Dick Grayson copy- Jason Todd.

So they bring back Jason and give him a quick revamp. They make him all chirpy and happy so Golden Age. But dark enough that he’s similar enough to NTT age Dick. Then they kill him. Like okay people say it was the vote but DC always wanted Jason or more accurately Golden Age Robin dead.

Which paved way for Tim Drake’s Robin. Someone who was made for this new darker Bruce. But would have also been paired with Dick’s more efficent Batman. However this failed when Azrael fucked hard with Tim’s character and bolstered Tim’s importance beyond the normal Robin levels.

He was there to validate every bullshit thing Bruce was doing. He was there to validate child soldiers and reset the narrative from partner to general and soldier.

The issue for many fans comes from Tim’s character being a dork who siphoned off Dick’s chip on his shoulder colder more analytical mind.

Tim was just super eager and happy to help. (His backstory was pretty much just Bette Kane redone as a friend pointed out to me)

So Dick started to morph into happy big brother here. But the Batfam was changed in Crisis so the Batfam angle didn’t fit.

Dick wasn’t as hostile to Jason as some people would think but they weren’t close.

Dick was very close to Tim. I think original Tim paired with non altered Dick was a very good pair who worked well together.

It’s just when Tim became more and more popular he was given the traits that made Dick so popular and work so well.

Dick gave back the mantle to Bruce and Tim well Tim get siphoning more and more of Dick as time went on.

Barely recognizable to their 90s and before counterparts

Green Lantern

Kyle is actually more controversial than I might lead people on this blog to believe lol. Due to my undying and biased love for him.

He came in as a character who was going to put a new spin on Green Lantern. He was younger and fresher faced. But Hal’s Parallax arc as many might not know was quick as fuck. He just turned evil after Coast City and went for Genocide.

Kyle was yeeted the ring and he went in to try and help save the world. Kyle was the one who talked down Hal. Hal handed him the ring and said you’re the green lantern. The passing of the torch really.

But Kyle wasn’t beloved by everyone. Many people found his entry too quick. They thought he was too good with the ring too quick. They didn’t like his character. Thought he was too emotional to be a GL not enough Will. Lot’s of different takes.

Also Guy and John were there and many people would have preferred to see them if it wasn’t gonna be Hal.

Kyle and Donna was another thing that was alienating. Many people would have preferred to see her with Roy (plus I hate her with Kyle but that’s me)

Kyle remained the sole GA until 2005 ish so about 10 years. And he continues to be a major player to this day.

Green Arrow

Chuck Dixon hated Ollie and wanted him dead. So in came Connor Hawke. Ollie’s bastard son and a really talented martial artist that Ollie met at the Ashram.

Ollie acted ooc as fuck during this run but he died in a plane crash.

And Conn took over his place as the Green Arrow. Roy was doing Checkmate and Titans stuff anyways but no one asked him.

Connor is my baby boy my favorite DC character. But he also wasn’t that popular.

Obviously racism. They couldn’t even agree on a skin color. Many people were turned away by the perceived ‘preachiness’ of you know bringing up real world issues.

A lot of people also didn’t like Conn being presented as a better martial artist than a lot of the Batfam (the fanon bias has always been strong)

He was main GA until 2001 when Ollie came back.

Superboy

Okay we got Kon way back when Clark ate it and then he was sort of here. Younger than the above kids but obviously the intended take over for Clark.

But then Clark came back. And it was just the take over didn’t happen here.

#dc comics

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goldandbluesmiles · 4 years ago

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A Surprise Engagement

Summary: Jacie is expecting to have to break up with her boyfriend to go through with an arranged marriage. She is pleasantly surprised by her father's slyness.

Ao3

XXX

"You believe they want to talk to you about marriage?"

Lady Jacie turned away from the mirror to look at her lover, still splayed out on her bed.

"Yes," she told him, "You know how it is. I and my siblings are not the blood children of Lord Wayne. However, due to the legal inclusion of us in the family and state, we are good for making alliances. This much wealth comes at a price Kyle. Those born into this family, like Bruce and Helena, die in service to Gotham, giving their blood life to the people. Those like me, adopted in, find other ways. For Richard, it meant marriage to Kori. For Timothy, it meant allegiance to the Kryptonians of Metropolis. For me, it means whoever they pick out,"

"You don't even know who they might want you to take?" he asked

Jacie sighed and went to sit by him.

"No," she said, running a hand through his soft hair, "They might give me a few to choose from but I don't know who,"

"Are you okay with this?" he asked, "What about us?"

"I told you about this when we got involved," she said softly, "I told you we couldn't get attached,"

"That's it?" he demanded, sitting up

"I don't know what you want me to say, Kyle,"

Kyle sighed, "I guess I thought it could be different. Sorry for snapping,"

Jacie smiled tightly. Kyle was not a royal but the Lanterns were a governed entity. They made their dealings similar to those of royal families. He understood even if it hurt.

"I should probably go before your maid comes in," said Kyle

"Yes," murmured Jacie

Kyle put his clothes on quickly, taking her hands in his when he was done.

"May I?" he inquired

Jacie nodded.

Kyle leaned down and gave her a gentle kiss.

"I'll see you sometimes my lady," he said

Jacie nodded but did not say anything.

As soon as he was out the door, she flopped back into the bed, wondering once again if getting involved with Kyle had been a good idea. It wasn't as if she hadn't had lovers before. She had actually had quite a few. All of them had. Bruce had never been a stickler for staying pure before marriage and let them do as they wanted as long as they were all staying safe.

However, as soon as she had met Kule, she had known something was different. The first time they had met, they had both just entered their twenties. She had been getting used to being alive again while he had just joined the Green Lanterns. A part of being a Lantern had been visiting the important families of his sector, which included Gotham.

Kyle had stumbled on her reading in the library and from there they had gotten to talk. Kyle was not passionate about reading however, he was passionate about drawing the characters from literary books. They had gotten into a strong debate on what certain characters from literature would look like. From there. their friendship had blossomed which had them lead to more. On her birthday, he had given her a sketchbook full of Jane Austen's characters, making her gasp in awe and wonder. She had known then, that they were becoming too close but she had not put a stop to it. She had understood from a young age that her marriage would be arranged and she not only accepted it but seen it as part of her life. She knew Bruce would never force her into anything she didn't want and had been at peace with the whole thing.

Until Kyle.

Sighing again, she sat up. She had made a commitment to the idea. She couldn't just leave it now that she hag gotten involved with an amazing guy.

"Oh, Fuck,"

xxx

After, putting on a dress of her signature red, a black leather jacket and having the maid pull her hair into a bun, Jacie made her way tp the Meeting room. Inside there was Bruce, Selina, Cassandra, the Kanes, the Crownes, the Dumas's and the Glavans. All sitting in their perspective seats and waiting for her to join them. Once she entered, everyone but her parents stood up to greet her.

When they were all seated, Bruce started to start the meeting with some gentle words and explanations but Jacie just shook her head.

"Come now, Old man," she told him "Cut it. I know why I'm here,"

Some of the others, especially the older ones, frowned but her dad had an amused twinkle in his eyes, which was the only thing she cared about.

"Well then," said Bruce, "Uncle Phillip, please,"

"Well, child," said Phillip, gentle smile in place. He had always been her favourite.

"We have four options that you can choose from,"

"Okay,"

"First, Roy Harper,"

She listened to them go on about his family and qualifications but already knew that it would never happen. He was her friend and his daughter caller her Jayjay for fun. It would be too awkward to be married to the older man.

"Next, Jericho Wilson," said Phillipe, going on to explain his background

Jacie bit back her surprise and cast a glance at her dad and was instantly relieved. He didn't seem to like that option either.

"Wally West,"

Oh hell no.

"And last but not least," said Phillipe, "Kyle Rayner of the Green Lantern Corps,"

Jaycie's blood froze in her veins.

"Rayner?" she choked out

"Yes," said Phillipe, "I realize he's not a royal but it was your father's idea and the rest of us agree. He's quite formidable and it is always a good thing to have a further connection with the Lanterns,"

Bruce's idea. She looked at her father and found that his face was carefully blank.

He knew.

Jacie cleared her throat.

"I would like some time to think about it," she said

"Of course," said Phillipe, "We're in no hurry. Here are the files, child. Meeting adjourned,"

Jacie took the files and quickly made her way out of there before any of her family could follow her. She basically ran the rest of the way to her room and shut the door behind her.

She put the files on her table and flopped down on the bed, trying to calm her racing heart.

So Bruce new about her and Kyle. Not the biggest surprise. But he approved. Or was he just trying to make her happy? And what about Kyle! Did he know? No, he would have been so dejected today if he had. Did that mean that the Lanterns just wanted a deal and wanted them to choose-

There was a knock on her door.

So much for being left alone.

She got up to open the door and was shocked to find Kyle standing at her door.

"Can I come in?" he asked, sounding out of breath

"Yeah," she murmured, moving aside to let him in.

"So-" he said as soon as he stepped inside, "I had the most surprising call with the Corps. Apparently I'm a candidate for being your husband. There are two options here. You didn't know at all or you knew and don't wanna marry me so you lie-"

"I didn't, Kyle," she said, taking a step and holding his hand, "I didn't know,"

"Oh," he said, letting out a long breath, "That makes me feel better,"

"Come on," she murmured, "Come sit down,"

They both sat down in the, his hand still in hers.

"So," he said, "Do you want to marry me?"

"I- Kyle this is a surprise," she said, "What about you?"

"We get along. I care about you, I really really do and I mean we don't have to yet, right? It would be great. We could read books together you could critique my drawings and-"

"Kyle, baby," she said, letting out a chuckle, "You're rambling,"

Kyle stopped, let out a long breathe and smiled

She couldn't help but smile back and think to all the time they know each other. The meals they had had together, the walks they had taken through different cites around the country the many flights he has taken her on.

Jacie had never classified the relationship as more than an attachment, thinking it was best. But sitting here now, thinking of continuing their care for each other - it filled her with warmth.

"Kyle?" she murmured

"Yes," he said

"I-," she took a deep breather, "I think I might love you,"

He let out a breathless chuckle, joy dancing in his eyes, "I think I might love you too,"

Jacie laughed and threw herself into his arms, covering his face with kisses. Kyle pulled away to say something when there was another knock on the door.

"Jacie, it's me," called out Bruce

Oh no.

"Hide," she whispered to Kyle

Kyle instantly vaulted across her bed and laid down on the other side, half under the bed.

Jacie fixed her hair and dress

"Come in," she called out

Bruce came in and closed the door behind him. For a few seconds, he awkwardly stood at the threshold before sighing.

"I didn't mean to spring this on you," he said, "They had been talking about it on and off for some time but they didn't say anything explicit so I didn't bring it up. However, this morning they more or less forced me to call the meeting. I think they were afraid I was avoiding it on purpose,"

"And Kyle?" she whispered

"The Lanterns brought up an alliance through marriage and told us to take their pick of their non-married members. I wasn't going to, there is no guarantee that they wouldn't be forced but then Kyle came along. I added his name to the roster this morning,"

"Oh," she murmured, trying to hide her actual excitement

"Now I don't know how much Kyle knows," said Bruce, stepping a little closer, "But I'm sure if you talk to-"

Bruce's eyes then slid around the room and he frowned. After a few moments, he rolled his eyes and sighed.

"He's in here isn't he?"

Jacie couldn't help but smirk.

Bruce sighed, "Hello Kyle,"

"Lord Wayne," Kyle called out, still staying in his place

"Well, I suppose that takes care of that," said Bruce, "I'm going to go now. I will see you at dinner. Both of you,"

Jacie nodded. Bruce gave her forehead a kiss and left the room.

Kyle slowly came out of his hiding spot and they both collapsed on the bed laughing.

"Can't believe that just happened," he said

Jacie just laughed some more.

"So," said Kyle, "The engagement?"

"We don't have to get married instantly. We can have a long engagement. Get used to the idea,"

"Yeah," said Kyle, "Yeah,"

Kyle smiled at her, a soft look in his eyes.

"What," she asked

"I wanted this," he murmured, "But I never dared to think about it. I knew you had a commitment to Gotham. I just buried it. But now..."

"I know," she said softly, "I know,"

Kyle smiled wide, taking her hands in his, "We're gonna get married,"

"Yeah," said Jacie, placing a kiss on his hand, "Yeah. We're gonna get married,"

And it was going to be beautiful.

#fjw2020 #female jason todd #bruce wayne #Jason Todd #kyle rayner

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bigskydreaming · 4 years ago

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What are the best standalone dc comics you can recommend to someone who just knows the main few jla heroes, the existence of multiple robins, and only a few of their actual names? The less grimdark the better, I've already got Li'l Gotham, Kami Garcia's Raven, Superman's pal Jimmy Olsen in my list. Anything with Dick?

With the ironic exception of the 90′s Nightwing solo series, which I will never recommend as it contains all of my least favorite staples of his character lol, from cop Dick to ‘let’s systematically destroy his life because that builds character’ which uh, is NOT the point of angst or conflict IMO, lol.....

Ahem, anyway, except for the 90′s Nightwing solo series, I personally would recommend going back to the 90′s comics for fun stuff. First off, back then the titles were a lot less interconnected, it was a lot easier to read just one book and not inevitably need to rush over to another one to get any context for what was happening, and like....I think the 90′s (at least for DC) gets an undeserved rep. It was dark at times, definitely, but not the unending grimdark of some of the more recent years, and there was a definite focus on younger heroes - for instance, a lot of the names I bring up in my posts about the lineup I’d use for Jason’s Titans, those come straight out of the 90′s versions of those characters. Like The Ray, Damage, Anima, etc.

So the 90′s Young Justice book, Superboy, etc. The Flash, because Wally and Linda Park are a hugely underrated DC couple and were so great together, and the Rogues were at their best in the 90s, I think. The JSA title from back then was a TON of fun at times, with a lot of characters you’ll rarely see anywhere else, unfortunately, but definitely deserve all the love.

And the 90′s Robin book! Maybe unexpected given my posts about Tim and his fandom these days, but a huge part of my issue there is that fanon Tim and Red Robin Tim are just....the ANTITHESIS of everything Tim was originally, and why I loved him. In the beginning, 90′s Tim was the Robin Who Shouldn’t Have Been. What I mean by that is he wasn’t this exceptional prodigy whose rise to heroism was inevitable - his discovery of Batman and Robin’s identity was as much a matter of luck and fanboyism than anything, certainly not Tim being this child-sized Batman who was every bit as competent as his older counterparts with none of the training.

Tim was the Robin who made no sense, and that was the point - he didn’t have Dick’s lifetime of dedicated athletics or Jason’s street-smarts or self-preservation instincts (Jason died because he followed his understandable desire for family rather than his instincts, it was never because he was this reckless kid with no sense of danger, he KNEW how to protect himself and keep himself safe and alive...the tragedy of his death was it happened because he didn’t CARE in his desire to believe the best of Sheila and try and save her).

The point of Tim, originally, was he became the hero he was for one reason only - sheer stubborn determination to live up to the example of the Robins before him and be the partner he believed with all his heart that Batman needed. Tim, ironically given how he’s portrayed today and viewed by fans - was the everyman.

Yeah, he was wealthy, but that wealth wasn’t portrayed like he was Bruce Wayne Jr., but rather just that he was a well-off kid who skateboarded and played video games and had the luxury of going off and doing what he wanted. It wasn’t emphasized the way it is now. And yeah he was something of a loner, but that was by choice - because he was this kid who was obsessed with his hobbies that by their very nature required secrecy. But he had friends, he was just selective about them, and his only hurtle to making friends later with his teammates was the secrecy demanded by Batman. And he was never this socially awkward, maladjusted loner who was a lonely outsider constantly looking in - Tim has probably had more casual girlfriends than any of his brothers, he was awkward but never exceptionally so, and his social issues or problems fitting in at times at school were always portrayed as like....teenage growing pains, rather than any kind of true outsider status.

Tim Drake, originally, was just your average kid who became a hero because he loved heroes and believed in them, and he saw a void that nobody else was filling, and said well if nobody else is going to do it, might as well be me.

And he was the Robin who had everything set against him and no reason to expect he’d actually work out....because he wasn’t an innately exceptional athlete or genius, he HAD lived a relatively sheltered and privileged life (at that point, though they emphasized and upped the tragedy and neglect of his family circumstances more and more in later years)....but initially, the point was....he had no reason to have the skills or the drive of either of the two previous Robins....AND YET HE SUCCEEDED ANYWAY.

For one simple reason:

He was determined to. He refused to give up. He powered through despite all odds. THAT was the point of Tim Drake.

He was the underdog. That was why we rooted for him!

And that’s why the modern version and the fanon versions of him are so dissatisfying to me personally, because they’ve taken ALL of that away from him and made him into this entitled, inevitable HEIR to all the talents and instincts and toils of everyone who came before him. He doesn’t have to work for any of it, it all just comes naturally to him. From his first appearance in most stories, he’s already the equal of all of his predecessors, able to play cat and mouse with Bruce and Dick and Jason without any of them gleaning on to the fact that he knows more than them, and he’s like....the puppet master secretly helping them all from behind the scenes because they apparently need his help and were incompetent until he came along and that’s not Tim Drake to me and completely the opposite of why he was so great! Now in fanon he’s as wealthy as Bruce and as tragic as Jason and as athletic as Dick and as smart as Babs and I know I’m always saying the Batfamily is a family of Mary Sues and that’s their entire concept, but there’s this insistence on Tim being the MOST Mary Sue of them all and THAT’S his niche, like if he isn’t the most special or talented or smart then what’s even the point of him and its like......STUBBORN TEENAGE HERO IDEALIZATION! THAT’S THE POINT OF TIM!

Modern and fanon Tim Drake is this dark, brooding, cynical pragmatist, when 90′s Tim was the kid who was so hopeful and optimistic he brought a smile back to even Dick Grayson’s face when Dick Grayson had stopped smiling!

Ahem.

Anyway.

Yeah, 90s Robin is a good series. So is the original Batgirl series. I’m a sucker for Kyle Rayner of course, so I’d recommend his solo Green Lantern title, but even though his debut happened in Green Lantern vol 3 issue #50, I’d start around #60 to be honest, because the early issues are when women in refrigerators was coined with the utterly gratuitous murder of his girlfriend Alex deWitt, and its truly an albatross around that book’s neck that never needed to happen and IMO added absolutely NOTHING to his character or the title, so skip it and don’t do that mess the courtesy of even reading or acknowledging it.

Hmm, what else....the Captain Marvel/Shazam stuff from back then was excellent of course, as was Wonder Woman and her supporting cast. The Titans were honestly not at their best in the 90s though there were some good minis here and there.

After the 90s, my recs are sporadic - I’d read the Ryan Choi as Atom series, Jaime Reyes’ Blue Beetle books, the Jason Rusch Firestorm, etc. I really have very little modern or current DC recommendations as IMO the entire New 52 was an unnecessary miss and Rebirth has done very little to course correct, though I do think the early Rebirth Nightwing title was pretty good and had some fun stuff.

Anyone else got anymore/other recs for anon?

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networkingdefinition · 5 years ago

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Football Quotes

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• A football team is a like a beautiful woman, when you do not tell her, she forgets she is beautiful – Arsene Wenger • A football team is like a piano. You need eight men to carry it and three who can play the damn thing. – Bill Shankly • A lot of football success is in the mind. You must believe you are the best and then make sure that you are. – Bill Shankly • A professional football team warms up grimly and disparately, like an army on maneuvers: the ground troops here, the tanks there, the artillery and air force over there. – Ted Solotaroff • A school without football is in danger of deteriorating into a medieval study hall. – Vince Lombardi • After all, is football a game or a religion? – Howard Cosell • All that I know most surely about morality and obligations I owe to football. – Albert Camus • And I coached against Mike when he was an assistant with the Bears and they won that football game. – Don Shula • And of course in America you’ve got American football and baseball and all those other ball games, soccer has become a little niche that the women have kind of filled. – Parminder Nagra • At a football club, there’s a holy trinity – the players, the manager and the supporters. Directors don’t come into it. They are only there to sign the checks. – Bill Shankly • At the base of it was the urge, if you wanted to play football, to knock someone down, that was what the sport was all about, the will to win closely linked with contact. – George Plimpton

jQuery(document).ready(function($) var data = action: 'polyxgo_products_search', type: 'Product', keywords: 'Football', orderby: 'rand', order: 'DESC', template: '1', limit: '68', columns: '4', viewall:'Shop All', ; jQuery.post(spyr_params.ajaxurl,data, function(response) var obj = jQuery.parseJSON(response); jQuery('#thelovesof_football').html(obj); jQuery('#thelovesof_football img.swiper-lazy:not(.swiper-lazy-loaded)' ).each(function () var img = jQuery(this); img.attr("src",img.data('src')); img.addClass( 'swiper-lazy-loaded' ); img.removeAttr('data-src'); ); ); ); • Baseball is fathers and sons. Football is brothers beating each other up in the backyard. – Donald Hall • Baseball is what we were, football is what we have become. – Mary McGrory • Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field? – Jim Bouton • Because I was small, I was getting the hell kicked out of me playing football. – Burt Bacharach • Being a woman is of special interest only to aspiring male transsexuals. To actual women, it is simply a good excuse not to play football. – Fran Lebowitz • But I just want to be known for my football. – Jamie Redknapp • But when you lose a family member or something tragic happens, that stays with you forever. You never get over it. Knowing that you have to deal with that for the rest of your life… Football is important, but not as important as you once thought it was. – Brett Favre

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• College football is a game which would be much more interesting if the faculty played instead of the students, and even more interesting if the trustees played. There would be a great increase in broken arms, legs, and necks, and simultaneously an appreciable diminution in the loss to humanity. – H. L. Mencken • Fifa cannot sit by and see greed rule the football world. Nor shall we. – Sepp Blatter • Football brings out the sociologist that lurks in some otherwise respectable citizens. They say football is a metaphor for America’s sinfulness. – George Will • Football combines the two worst things about America: it is violence punctuated by committee meetings. – George Will • Football doesn’t build character, it reveals character. – Marv Levy • Football doesn’t build character. It eliminates the weak ones. – Darrell Royal • Football is a fertility festival. Eleven sperm trying to get into the egg. I feel sorry for the goalkeeper.- Bjork • Football is a game about feelings and intelligence. – Jose Mourinho • Football is a game played with arms, legs and shoulders but mostly from the neck up. – Knute Rockne • Football is a simple game made complicated by people who should know better. – Bill Shankly • Football is a team game. So is life. – Joe Namath • Football is an honest game. It’s true to life. It’s a game about sharing. Football is a team game. So is life. – Joe Namath • Football is an incredible game. Sometimes it’s so incredible, it’s unbelievable. – Tom Landry • Football is like a religion to me. I worship the ball, and I treat it like a god. Too many players think of a football as something to kick. They should be taught to caress it and to treat it like a precious gem. – Pele • Football is like life – it requires perseverance, self-denial, hard work, sacrifice, dedication and respect for authority. – Vince Lombardi • Football is like life and I know life. – Rush Limbaugh • Football is mesmerizing, because it’s a figurative war. You go in one direction till you get there, but you get there as a team, not as an individual. Players bond whether they’re black or white, much as soldiers do. – Oliver Stone • Football is, after all, a wonderful way to get rid of your aggressions without going to jail for it. – Woody Hayes • Football isn’t a contact sport, it’s a collision sport. – Duffy Daugherty • Football isn’t a contact sport; it’s a collision sport. Dancing is a contact sport. – Vince Lombardi • Football linemen are motivated by a more complicated, self-determining series of factors than the simple fear of humiliation in the public gaze, which is the emotion that galvanizes the backs and receivers. – Merlin Olsen • Football, wherein is nothing but beastly fury and extreme violence, whereoth proceedeth hurt, and consequently rancour and malice do remain with them that be wounded. – Philip Stubbs • Football: A sport that bears the same relation to education that bullfighting does to agriculture. – Elbert Hubbard • Football’s a difficult business and aren’t they prima donnas. But it’s a wonderful game. – Queen Elizabeth II • From that moment the pendulum went into reverse – Gerald Sinstadt • Gentlemen, it is better to have died a small boy than to fumble this football. – John Heisman • He’s a nice guy, but he played too much football with his helmet off. – Lyndon B. Johnson • I also played two years of high school football but I wasn’t very, how shall I say it, talented. – Kyle Chandler • I am delighted to have you play football. I believe in rough, manly sports. But I do not believe in them if they degenerate into the sole end of any one’s existence. I don’t want you to sacrifice standing well in your studies to any over-athleticism; and I need not tell you that character counts for a great deal more than either intellect or body in winning success in life. Athletic proficiency is a mighty good servant, and like so many other good servants, a mighty bad master. – Theodore Roosevelt • I don’t like to lose, and that isn’t so much because it is just a football game, but because defeat means the failure to reach your objective. – Knute Rockne • I eat football, I sleep football. I am not mad I am just passionate – Thierry Henry • I feel an autumnal Saturday, no matter how beautiful, is wasted if it doesn’t find me sitting in on a football game. – Howard Roberts • I feel like football players are overworked and underpaid compared to any other sports. – Terrell Owens • I have been a fan all my life, but now I have been out of football for over 10 years, and out of baseball for a little over six years and I don’t go to games. – Bo Jackson • I love football and it’s the sport I would really like to play. I’ve said on national television here that I would really love to play for one of our football clubs when I finished my tennis career. – Novak Djokovic • I love football, football is my life. – Wayne Rooney • I played English football – soccer – instead of American football, because we couldn’t afford the equipment. – Wally Schirra • I really do love football. – Ricky Williams • I stopped playing football because I’d done as much as I could. I needed something which was going to excite me as much as football had excited me. – Eric Cantona • I was always the last one chosen for football games in Central Park. – Merlin Olsen • I was surprised, but I always say nothing surprises me in football. – Les Ferdinand • I was very poor. As a child my dream was to have a leather football. – Stephen Chow • If a man watches three football games in a row, he should be declared legally dead. – Erma Bombeck • If anything goes bad, I did it. If anything goes semi-good, we did it. If anything goes real good, then you did it. That’s all it takes to get people to win football games for you. – Bear Bryant • If football players were armed with guns, there wouldn’t be stadiums large enough to hold the crowds. – Irwin Shaw • If God had wanted us to play football in the sky, He’d have put grass up there. – Brian Clough • If you don’t play well, you have a bad game or a nightmare you know that the amount of coverage is worldwide. – Steven Gerrard • If you have only one passion in life – football – and you pursue it to the exclusion of everything else, it becomes very dangerous. When you stop doing this activity it is as though you are dying. The death of that activity is a death in itself. – Eric Cantona • In football as in watchmaking, talent and elegance mean nothing without rigour and precision. – Lionel Messi • In football everything is complicated by the presence of the opposite team. – Jean-Paul Sartre • In football, the worst blindness is only seeing the ball. – Nelson Rodrigues • In life, as in football, the principle to follow is to hit the line hard. – Theodore Roosevelt • In real football, I wouldn’t want Terrell Owens anywhere near my team. But you’re nuts if you don’t take him in fantasy. – Randy Cross • International football is the continuation of war by other means. – George Orwell • It is veneer, rouge, aestheticism, art museums, new theaters, etc. that make America impotent. The good things are football, kindness, and jazz bands. – George Santayana • It was an ideal day for football – too cold for the spectators and too cold for the players. – Red Smith • It’s so easy for a kid to join a gang, to do drugs. We should make it that easy to be involved in football and academics. – Snoop Dogg • Kicking is very important in football. In fact, some of the more enthusiastic players even kick the ball, occasionally. – Alfred Hitchcock • Maybe Louis does have a golden willy. – Arjen Robben • Most football players are temperamental. That’s 90 percent temper and 10 percent mental. – Doug Plank • Music was important. Football was the easy part. – Zinedine Zidane • Nine in the box… that’s a football term. – Ricky Williams • No talking. Talking doesn’t play football, talking isn’t going to make you practice harder or play harder. – Ken Simonton • Nobody in football should be called a genius. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein. – Joe Theismann • Nobody who ever gave his best regretted it. – George Halas • Of course I didn’t take my wife to see Rochdale as an anniversary present. It was her birthday and would I have got married during the football season? Anyway, it was Rochdale reserves. – Bill Shankly • Often there are players who have only football as a way of expressing themselves and never develop other interests. And when they no longer play football, they no longer do anything; they no longer exist, or rather they have the sensation of no longer existing. – Eric Cantona • Other countries have their history. Uruguay has its football. – Ondino Viera • People who work together will win, whether it be against complex football defenses, or the problems of modern society. – Vince Lombardi • Pro football is like nuclear warfare. There are no winners, only survivors. – Frank Gifford • Rugby is a game for barbarians played by gentlemen. Football is a game for gentlemen played by barbarians. – Oscar Wilde • Sharks are as tough as those football fans who take their shirts off during games in Chicago in January, only more intelligent. – Dave Barry • Some people try to find things in this game that don’t exist but football is only two things – blocking and tackling. – Vince Lombardi • Sometimes in football you have to score goals. – Thierry Henry • Sure, luck means a lot in football. Not having a good quarterback is bad luck. – Don Shula • That’s football, Mike, Northern Ireland have had several chances and haven’t scored but England have had no chances and scored twice. – Trevor Brooking • That’s kind of how I approach life and football; why dwell on something that’s hasn’t happened. – Brett Favre • The best thing I ever learned in life was that things have to be worked for. A lot of people seem to think there is some sort of magic in making a winning football team. There isn’t, but there’s plenty of work. – Knute Rockne • The crowd think that Todd handled the ball…they must have seen something that nobody else did. – Barry Davies • The function of football, soccer, basketball and other passion-sports in modern industrial society is the transference of boredom, frustration, anger and rage into socially acceptable forms of combat. A temporary substitute for war; for nationalism; identification with something bigger than the self. – Edward Abbey • The game of life is a lot like football. You have to tackle your problems, block your fears, and score your points when you get the opportunity. – Lewis Grizzard • The negative side of football. The negative side of our society. People sometimes go to football and bring to it the negative aspects of our society. – Jose Mourinho • The pride and presence of a professional football team is far more important than 30 libraries. – Art Modell • The reason women don’t play football is because 11 of them would never wear the same outfit in public. – Phyllis Diller • The supreme quality for leadership is unquestionably integrity. Without it, no real success is possible, no matter whether it is on a section gang, a football field, in an army, or in an office. – Dwight D. Eisenhower • The tactical difference between Association Football and Rugby with its varieties seems to be that in the former the ball is the missile, in the latter men are the missiles. – Ernest Crawley • The town, the team, it’s a family. That has helped. For some people who have had to deal with some of the problems I have had to deal with don’t have football as an out. – Brett Favre • There are so many things about playing football that seem to me uniquely American. Anybody can succeed, anybody can play, but youve got to work hard to do it. – Dean Cain • There are two things every man in America thinks he can do: work a grill and coach football. – Greg Schiano • There is a progression of understanding vis-a-vis pro football that varies drastically with the factor of distance — physical, emotional, intellectual and every other way. Which is exactly the way it should be, in the eyes of the amazingly small number of people who own and control the game, because it is this finely managed distance factor that accounts for the high-profit mystique that blew the sacred institution of baseball off its ”national pastime” pedestal in less than fifteen years. – Hunter S. Thompson • This is a dirty business, that is why I go out and play with my heart. I feel like football players are overworked and underpaid compared to any other sports. This is like a nine to five. No guaranteed contracts, and that is the worst thing about it. – Terrell Owens • Tottenham are trying tonight to become the first London team to win this cup. The last team to do so was the 1973 Spurs team. – Mike Ingham • Violent ground-acquisition games such as football are in fact a crypto-fascist metaphor for nuclear war. – Robert Downey, Jr. • We can’t run. We can’t pass. We can’t stop the run. We can’t stop the pass. We can’t kick. Other than that, we’re just not a very good football team right now. – Bruce Coslet • Well family is obviously the most important. There was a time when I thought football was the most important. – Brett Favre • What are you doing here? Tell me why you are here. If you are not here to win a national championship, you’re in the wrong place. You boys are special. I don’t want my players to be like other students. I want special people. You can learn a lot on the football field that isn’t taught in the home, the church, or the classroom. There are going to be days when you think you’ve got no more to give and then you’re going to give plenty more. You are going to have pride and class. You are going to be very special. You are going to win the national championship for Alabama. – Bear Bryant • When I played pro football, I never set out to hurt anyone deliberately – unless it was, you know, important, like a league game or something. – Dick Butkus • Whenever I wasn’t watching the planes, I was playing community baseball, football, or something like that. – Bo Jackson • Why is it good for football to take the excitement away from fans by overcharging them for tickets to see their team? – Sepp Blatter • Women will not talk about football unless one of them is in love with a football player, and then suddenly you discover that they know everything that is to be known about it. – Jeanne Moreau • You can spend the money on new housing for poor people and the homeless, or you can spend it on a football stadium or a golf course. – Jello Biafra • You can’t be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer. – Frank Zappa [clickbank-storefront-bestselling]

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equitiesstocks · 5 years ago

Text

Football Quotes

Official Website: Football Quotes

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bigskydreaming · 5 years ago

Note

For the fic ask meme, 4, 16, 24, or 28

I will answer 16 now, because No Reason, Just Whimsy, but stay tuned as I’ll probably end up answering 4, 24 and 28 at some point anyway, because like. No Reason, Just Whimsy. *Shrugs*

16. If you only could write one pairing for the rest of your life, which pairing would it be?

I can’t tell you, see, because I would simply make that one pairing endgame and everything else leading up to it like, contain all the other ships I could not bear to be without. (Hahahaha this is why I could never be a romance author, I can not abide by the rules of HEA or HFN in relationship stories to save my LIFE). So, y’know, SPOILERS.

No but also I’m completely aware that this is cheating and not the point of the question. But I can not choose though, that is the point, like, have you met me? I am the original poster child for ADHD. I’m THAT old.

So instead I will simply say that in the realm of Teen Wolf, Scanny is very very very important to me, which like, surprises no one. But also I would still fight someone who tried to take either Scira or Scallison from me, I remain obnoxiously fond of Scackson’s potential, and I’m still out here being like, the sole Scosh (Scott/Josh Diaz) shipper in all the land, I’m pretty sure, lmfao.

And I mean, also there’s Scyle, of course. I could never give up the Scyle.

As far as Marvel goes, like, I am going to be riding the high of Bobby/Christian being canon for quite some time, as anyone who has known me long knows that I have been shipping this ship since Christian was first introduced and then written offstage like two issues later….seventeen years ago.

(I have a lot of issues with straight writers making gay characters’ gay-specific tragedies and traumas like….someone ELSE’S angsty back story, while they themselves are just shuffled off the page and considered irrelevant. For those who don’t know, Christian is Emma Frost’s gay older brother who she adored and when their father had Christian institutionalized against his will because he was gay, this was what made Emma break away from the rest of her family for good and set her on the road to becoming the White Queen of the Hellfire Club.

And then, despite like, this being life-defining for her, not a single writer in the next fifteen damn years ever thought to ask themselves…..hmmm, why would Emma Frost, one of the most powerful telepaths in the world and someone whose personal morality in no way makes her above using those powers, her wealth or Hellfire resources however she damn well pleases in the name of protecting herself, those she cares about, and advancing her agendas…..why would this woman who has never let anything stand in the way of what she cares about before like….simply just…never once in all the years since she was a teenager think to herself….hmm, what if I simply go to the institution where my beloved brother is kept against his will, and just…..made them release him?)

So, aside from always thinking Bobby/Christian would be a great ship with amazing potential given Bobby’s unique history and dynamic with Christian’s sister and the fact that Christian shares a lot of the same traits, backstory and other elements that make Emma an amazing and multi-faceted character and he’s just been sitting there in Limbo for fifteen years with all this untapped potential just waiting to be mined….

I’m always going to be gleeful about this ship and with a special fondness for Sina Grace for bringing Christian back from comic book Limbo and laying the foundation for this ship, like, just because like……I feel its long overdue and the only way to ACTUALLY make anything decent out of the bullshit that was mining his oppression for the sake of another character’s angst: by finally giving HIM the chance to be a character who is affected by all that, developed and moved forward from all of that, is the FOCUS of all that…..and even more importantly, now after being left offscreen for fifteen years by writers who considered his narrative nothing more than tragic filler….he finally has a chance to be an example of a gay character who gets to come BACK from all of that and move FORWARD from it, and like…find healing and happiness with another character, like Bobby.

So Bobby/Christian is actually hugely important to me for a variety of reasons, especially right now since this is all just happening recently, and I will love them forever and in defiance of the inevitable bullshit some future writer pulls that will piss me the hell off. Y’know, just going off of Vegas odds or whatever.

Aside from Bobby/Christian I’ve also always had a weakness for Bobby/Johnny Storm because they are the most iconic ice and fire characters out there and I am basically twelve. I also have blogged at length in the past about all the reasons I’m a huge fan of Bobby/Bishop and not just because their ship name would make them a literal bop. Again, I refer you to the thing where I’m basically twelve. But yeah, there’s a whole history there where when Bishop first came back into the past and met the X-Men who’d all been legends in his time, he kinda fanboyed a little over Bobby because of Bobby’s future legend, and then was kinda like….oh, that’s it? about him once he got to know Bobby and Bishop became like, the physical embodiment of underwhelmed.

And ever since then Bobby’s always low key been like, a hyper-active puppy around Bishop, like, trying not to SEEM like he cares an awful lot about whether or not he’s managed to impress Bishop but because he can’t be subtle to save his life, mostly just coming across as “am I living up to the hype now? how about now? am I legendary NOW? What about now?” and I dunno. Its just kinda cute and a fairly unique dynamic, and Bishop has this deliberately bland, blink and you miss it sense of humor with the right writers and that I’ve always thought has a ton of potential for him to be privately amused by this tendency of Bobby’s, enough that he’s unwilling to confess to him that Bobby actually earned his respect years ago by this point, and he just doesn’t want to let Bobby know because then he’d stop.

And then in terms of DC, I’ve posted a lot a lot a loooooooooot about my love for Dick/Kory in canon, and how they - and by extension we - were robbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbed, and if DC doesn’t give me my canon Mar’i and Jake Grayson one of these days, I don’t care if they have to import them from another universe and then have this universe’s Dick and Kory awkwardly try to co-parent them while living their own lives separately before finally coming back together and falling in love all over again and then becoming a single united family unit forever and ever in the most ridiculously complicated comic book version of the Parent Trap ever, like…..

I can’t even think of an over-exaggerated threat creative enough to convey just how badly I want and need this, DC, give it to meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee plzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

And then also, I’ve actually posted a lot a lot a loooooooooooot (though not in a few years, probably, so those posts are all super old, lol) about how I think Kyle and Donna are a criminally under-rated canon couple and were actually really really good together because they went through so much together and Kyle literally grew so much as a character specifically on the things Donna called him out for the first time they dated, like, literally so he could be BETTER, and then with how anticlimactically they ended...because the thing is, they never actually even broke up! It was this thing where like, when Donna went to LA with Kyle for his high school reunion and to literally MEET HIS MOM, like HELLO, that is not a basic relationship step, that is Advanced Dating, like…..that is where they were at in their relationship when Donna literally got the call then and there that her ex-husband and her son had just died in a car accident.

And Donna was devastated of course, and Kyle was devastated too - for her, and also in his own way, because he’d adored Robert and like, there were these issues where they were super cute and took him to the zoo together and Kyle was bonding with him and just like, melting over this kid, and Robert and Terry were killed by a drunk driver, and like, there was a later story where Kyle just went apeshit on this drunk driver he encountered because he had all these repressed feelings about Robert’s death and how it had hurt Donna and he’d made sure not to show any of that to her or even let on that he hurt for Robert’s loss in his own way, because he didn’t want to make it about him, he KNEW better…

And anyway, the point is…they never actually broke up in the sense of either of them at any point being all, oh we no longer love each other or think this can work, we need to end it. Instead, Donna said that she needed to take some time away from Kyle and everyone else and just…come to terms with what she’d lost and figure out who she even was now in the wake of that….and Kyle totally understood, didn’t argue or try and change her mind, he just said take as much time as you need, I’ll be here when you’re ready, and oh btw, here’s this lantern construct of a locket that I want you to keep because as long as it exists you’ll know that a part of me is still thinking about you and wanting you to be happy, wherever that is.

And then like…..less than a year later, DC did their super weird Dark Angel story where Donna was erased from reality and then had to be ‘recreated’ from Wally’s memories, and for awhile just existed in the form and identity she’d been recreated from, which was based entirely on what Wally knew of her and thought and felt about her, and so there were huge gaps in her identity where she was missing stuff she should have known but didn’t now because WALLY didn’t know about it.

Such as how when Donna met Kyle’s subsequent sorta-girlfriend Jade some time later - I say sorta because she and Kyle were still figuring things out at that stage, and Jenny-Lynn in part didn’t know if she wanted to actually get into a relationship with him because she thought he was still in love with Donna - well anyway, when Donna and Jenny-Lynn met in a later issue and she said all this to Donna, Donna reassured her not to worry about it, she was reading more into it than actually existed because she and Kyle had never been that serious anyway.

Which. SCREECH! Brakes please. HOLD UP.

Like, I’m sorry JAY FAERBER YES I REMEMBER IT WAS YOU WHO WROTE THAT ISSUE UGGGGGH, but like, in what UNIVERSE is “dated, broke up, then got back together later because she thought Kyle had matured a ton since they first tried dating and now they were so much stronger as a couple that she oh I dunno, introduced him to her son and they went on playdates together, went with him to meet his mom, had a never-vanishing lantern locket construct that signified just how much he would always love her” uh…..’never been that serious anyway’? I’m. What? Does not compute.

BUT WHATEVER.

LOL. Anyway, point is, so things like that actually make sense when you factor in the role Wally’s memories and perspective played in who Donna literally WAS for awhile (and the understandable existential crises she went through as a result). But like, at the point in time when Kyle and Donna were most serious, Kyle was still fairly removed from a lot of the rest of the DC universe, he wasn’t a core member of the JLA yet and usually operated independently, and he and Wally were NOT close at all yet, let alone friends….in fact, for as long as Donna and Kyle dated, Wally pretty much still actively hated and resented Kyle for just existing, since he’d always been close with Hal since he was a kid and Hal was his Uncle Barry’s BFF-and-homosexual-life-partner-in-all-but-name.

Like, it was only after Kyle became one of the core JLA alongside Wally that the two of them finally worked out their mutual antagonism and became friends, but before that, Wally was NOT shy about expressing he hated this new GL guy and wanted nothing to do with him, even though it was for unfair reasons, sooooo……like, its not really that shocking that even though Wally and Donna are two of each other’s oldest friends and super tight, like, he was never going to be the friend she called up to let him know how great things were going with her and Kyle these days, lol, y’know?

So it makes sense that when Donna was first magically reconstituted thanks to Wally’s memories/view of her (btw, this was because Wally was out of phase with reality and was in the Speed Force at the precise moment that Donna was erased from reality by the Dark Angel’s magic, and that’s why he alone remembered her and was the template for undoing what the Dark Angel had done). But anyway, it makes sense that she would for a time have had very little memory or even knowledge of her and Kyle’s prior relationship, and basically just know/remember what little Wally actually knew of it. So from her perspective then, it could very well have seemed that they were never that serious, and everyone but Kyle like….kinda just nodded and figured okay, you would know after all, and just…..everyone ended up walking away with the idea that they were just this brief fling and neither had ever had strong feelings for each other, let alone love.

The problem I’ve always had is that eventually Donna DID regain her full memories and her own sense of self, and like….she was Donna again, through and through, existing as she always had without being limited to just Wally’s view or memory of her.

Soooo, at THAT point, she should have been perfectly aware of what her and Kyle’s relationship had ACTUALLY looked like, in its entirety, and I mean, I can understand them not getting back together at that point. It’d been years, they both were in very different places, Kyle had eventually gotten together with Jade after it was expressed by Donna herself that there was no reason not to, given that its not like they were ever that serious….so by the time Donna herself would have realized otherwise, I can totally understand her feeling that the moment had passed for them, that Kyle had moved on (just as Kyle had only ‘moved on’ once he felt there was no longer a chance of them returning to what they were). Like, all of that is super weird and complicated even by ridiculous comic book soap opera standards, so I mean….lol, how do you even BEGIN that conversation, y’know?

Buuuuuut, it just kinda sucks that at no point after that Faerber issue has any later writer ever had either Donna or Kyle discuss their previous relationship(s) in terms of what it ACTUALLY was, for BOTH of them, rather than just this trivial, ancient history fling that neither had ever been super invested in….even though for several years in the nineties they were one of THE major hero couples in comic books.

So. Yeah. As evidenced, I have a lot of unresolved Donna and Kyle feelings lol.

And then of course, there are and always will be my epic “OMG DICK AND KYLE COULD BE THE GREATEST SHIP AND END ALL THE SHIPS LIKE COULD YOU EVEN IMAGINE” feelings, but like. That’s a thirty pound tome in and of itself, so. Like. Just picture the two of them standing staring soulfully into each other’s eyes and then me, creepily fixated on them twenty feet away, chin propped up on my hands and going awwwwwwww while my own eyes like, sparkle anime style but also are the heart-eyes motherfucker meme at the same time.

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