#this is the only thing people ever want my opinions on things is when it’s about Belos

[mental-illness-bingo]

Yeah it’s very important to note that a thought getting stuck is in fact not the best description of OCD symptoms. That thought has to be very distressing. Distressing enough to interrupt daily functions. It doesn’t always have to be Extreme Violence™️ but the reason it often is is because those are the thoughts that best get obsessions to turn into conpulsions. Pure O anecdotally seems to have obsessions that may be less graphic, but not always and they’re still very distressing, even if they’re something that seems “silly” like a rotating cow.

OCD is ego dystonic - that means it goes directly against you and everything that makes you you. It means it is reasonably able to be personified into someone that absolutely hates you - truly loathes you - and wants you to suffer in the worst ways imaginable. It attacks fundamental beliefs, morals, anything to make you distressed. It’s a personal callout where it hurts the most. If your OCD finds the easiest way to cause you extreme distress is a rotating cow, it will absolutely do that. If the most direct way is images of extreme graphic violence - potentially committed you but not always - it will do that. But no matter what, it is not something that the have-r of the thoughts thinks is funny, catchy (songs), or otherwise positive or neutral.

This is not true of some of the disorders outside of OCD that can cause it, on the other hand.

OP definitely could have OCD based on this description but ofc it’s just one example so it doesn’t like, diagnose them (which I don’t think anyone was genuinely trying to do it’s just worth noting if impressionable ppl like children come across this post), but anyone who may think hours of a song they like stuck in their head - even if you have to listen to it in full to make it stop (this is common with earworms) - is OCD would be mistaken. Even being annoying but not distressing does not qualify. This doesn’t mean someone who does have OCD can’t get annoying earworms but it does mean those aren’t a symptom.

It’s really important that we watch our language so we do not water down the fundamental symptoms of an often debilitating disorder by saying it’s just a stuck thought. It is a thought, mental image, earworm, urge, etc. that causes extreme distress. Intrusive thoughts are not just a thought that repeats in your head. Please know that.

I know people are going to say “it’s not that deep” but it is. OCD is already dangerously misunderstood and watered down by the general public. How is it dangerous? Because when people hear about the true OCD symptoms - such as intrusive thoughts that you might be a pedophile and not know it, or “wanting” to kill someone very dear to you - they do not think “oh god that is so stressful for you; I’m sorry your OCD is causing you to go through that”. Instead they think “oh my god you’re a terrible disgusting person no good person thinks that” which is ableist and leads to isolation and further OCD spirals.

That can and does kill people. Because now they’re alone with a reinforced belief that they are a monster and the OCD plays off that, makes it worse, and deepens rumination and obsession. This forces either compulsions that become more and more intrusive or possibly dangerous to the individual (and makes them more likely to listen to those compulsions), or in “pure O” OCD, creates a thought spiral so intense and so lasting that they may believe there is only one way out.

OCD isn’t just a “stuck thought”. It is a thought that can, if not given assistance, suck the life and/or will to live out of you.

And this isn’t just my opinion, nor is it even just researchers; it is the direct specification and phrasing of the diagnostic tests I had done by a psychiatrist and multiple therapists to get and confirm my OCD diagnosis. It’s something they’re very clear about - “do these thoughts cause you intense distress”, “have these thoughts ever led to you doing dangerous things or self-injuring (including by excessive hand-washing, holding urine, refusing to eat, etc not just classic sh) in an attempt to end the thought”, and “do these thoughts interfere with fundamental activities like eating, hygiene, socializing, leaving the house, working, etc”.

Idk why but as a kid I used to get hysterically upset everytime I would imagine a gif of a rotating cow because I could never stop the cow from rotating no matter how hard I tried and I would be crying and no one knew why

[sleepyparalysisdmon]

What kind of person SVT is into

Requested? Yes!

Request: ‘Can you write what kind of person the guys in svt are into?’

A/N: Man, this one took some time. As someone who doesn’t really have a type (?), I had a hard time with this one. So, I put on my baby astrologer hat and did some research. Here’s my obligatory warning that I could be wrong about everything, and it’s just not that serious!! 

Seungcheol 

Someone who is very, very, very open about their feelings. Unabashedly expressive about things, including how into him they might be (he’s a Leo, please trust me on this). Think of someone that just wears their heart on their sleeves no matter what. I think he’d also find it attractive for someone to be an exceptionally hard worker and passionate about what they do - or just brings a lot of passion and energy into everything they do in general. 

Jeonghan 

Someone with a good sense of humor and sharp wit. Playful, flirty banter is a must. I think that would be enough for him most of the time, but what would really reel him in is an emotional connection. I kind of feel like he’s incredibly romantic but high-key resistant to it. So, someone who brings a naturally romantic, sweet energy despite the banter would make him go crazy. 

Joshua 

Someone who is the picture of stability. Like, I’m talking about someone who has their shit together and knows exactly what they want (could never be me!!). That ‘don’t worry, I got it’ attitude would have him hooked immediately. BUT!! He also wants to present the same sort of stability, so someone who can find some balance between that stability and leaning on others would have him planning a wedding. 

Jun 

Someone who is unapologetically weird!! Change my mind!! Really, though, the weirder, the better. It’s not just about a unique look, though that would be something that he’d be into. He’d live for the interesting conversations about unique jobs or unusual hobbies, or strange personal history. Never gets tired of learning something new every day. 

Hoshi 

Someone with high energy! I’m sure a lot of people saw this coming. He’d be into someone who smiles and laughs really easily and sort of brings an air of happiness wherever they go. So, he’d want someone to have fun with, but I think the kicker would be if this is someone emotionally intelligent and sensitive that he can be serious with, too. 

Wonwoo 

He is an enigma to me, and I think he needs someone that is equally enigmatic. Stick with me here. Someone who is equally affectionate and independent. Someone who can be incredibly social but also does well alone. Someone who likes to dress down but makes dressing up look effortless as well. I think he’d appreciate someone that you never really know what to expect from. 

Woozi 

Someone who has a fiery personality. I’m talking about someone who might have to be dragged away from an argument when tempers flare. That type of passion is something that I think he’d find really attractive because not only can he handle it, but he can match it, too. Someone who has strong values and opinions and isn’t afraid to stick to them. But also someone who can thoughtfully communicate those values and opinions.

DK 

Someone who has a great sense of humor and isn’t afraid to be silly. Shamelessly trying to make people laugh is totally a thing he does, and he’d love to bounce that energy off someone else. Someone who is equally shameless about affection and showing how much they love the people around them. It might just be me, but I wonder if he ever feels like he comes on too strong, and someone who responds warmly to that sort of thing would be incredible for him. 

Mingyu 

Someone who likes to be babied as much as they like to do the babying. I’m talking PDA all of the time, smothering each other and grossing others out. He likes to feel needed, so someone who isn’t hyper-independent would actually be something that he really likes. Someone who can make him feel big and tough 50% of the time but has an attitude that makes him fold the other 50% of the time. 

Minghao 

Emotionally intelligent!! Someone who is considerate about other people’s feelings and can be articulate about their own. Think of the therapist of the friend group that everyone goes to to unload their troubles and get advice. Someone who has a calm, soothing air about them that’s just easy to be around and get along with. Someone who is very intentional with how they express their love.

Seungkwan 

Honestly? The person everybody loves. I hesitate to say someone perfect because there’s no such thing. But think of the it girl or boy that can do it all and is well-liked on top of it. I think he’d have a lot of admiration for that kind of person, but I think he’d like someone who can own up to their own mistakes or flaws, too. 

Vernon 

A bit of a loner, maybe? Someone who really doesn’t mind being by themselves and respects others’ space immensely. Therefore, the time that someone like that would spend with him would be all the more significant. Someone who is kind of slow to open up because when they do, it would be all the more rewarding. 

Chan 

Someone who regularly steals the spotlight, whether they mean to or not. Think the life of the party or someone with a loud, infectious laugh. I think he’d be into someone who really knows how to have a good time no matter the setting. He might even be a little intimidated to approach someone like that, even though he’s like that, too. 

[allastoredeer]

Controversial opinion but I think Lucifer gets babied too much by the fandom. Like I get that he has mental health issues but seeing all this fanmedia of women and men of color nannying this white-adjacent man who has been shown to be an incompetent and absent husband, father and leader. Just. Grinds my gears.

Not saying I hate Lucifer but... when people frame past radiostatic with current radioapple as a huge upgrade, it reeks of a woman leaving her abusive ex for a neglectful husband. While I'm glad Lucifer is a step up from Adam, I need to see actual improvements if I don't want to get the ick.

Agreed.

I massively agree.

Lucifer gets babied a lot. And like you said, yes, he has mental health issues and that's valid, but a lot of the time, it feels like his mental health issues become a scapegoat for his flaws and bad behavior.

Depression is a legit reason for Lucifer to struggle to maintain relationships and reach out to those he cares about. As someone who has suffered from depression, I understand pulling away from people, feeling like you need a reason to reach out to someone, having a negative opinion of oneself, getting overwhelmed with anxiety, even ignoring other people's attempts at reaching out to me because it's just...too hard and it's too much and you're stuck in this cycle that you can't break out of.

HOWEVER

Lucifer's depression doesn't take away from the fact that he's neglected Charlie as a parent. It doesn't negate the fact that he has acted condescendingly towards her and her ambitions. It doesn't counteract the fact that Charlie felt uncomfortable and awkward for a majority of their interactions in "Dad Beat Dad."

I sympathize with Lucifer having depression, but unfortunately, mental illness doesn't just effect you, it also effects the people around you, and i can't fault Charlie for her feelings too.

Because at the end of the day, Lucifer is Charlie's father.

Charlie is his child.

And as a parent, he has responsibilities. Ones that he failed to meet, which would have an effect on Charlie as children are meant to rely on their parents.

It's very telling that Charlie calls Lilith (who's been MIA for 7 years) more than she calls Lucifer (who's probably just a few Circles away). And no, I don't think this is because Lilith kept them separated and all that bullshit. I think Lucifer 100% had a hand in his and Charlie's estranged relationship and I hate it when he's passed off as nothing but a victim in all of it.

I hate it when he's boiled down to sad depressed man who's done nothing wrong. He has done plenty wrong.

And that's okay.

Because that's what makes his character good. He is multi-faceted. He is flawed. You can be depressed and still treat the people around you bad. I don't think Lucifer ever meant to be an absent parent, he obviously loves Charlie with all his heart, but that doesn't mean Charlie wasn't affected by his actions.

She very obviously was. Charlie is one of the most positive people in the show (to an extent that it becomes one of her flaws too), but the minute she called Lucifer it was a complete flip of how we normally see her. She was immediately annoyed. Her patience was already wire-thin. She was close to snapping so many times.

And I can see why. He only calls when he's bored/wants/needs something. He forgot about where she was and what she was doing despite her already telling him. He told her that he'd do anything to help her, and then said "no" the minute she asked.

Also, let's not forget how he answered the phone in the first place.

"Heeey, bitch!"

And look, it was funny. I laughed too. I still think it's funny.

But, imagine you called your dad for the first time in years (a dad you have a very strained relationship with) and the first thing you hear is a peppy, "Heeeeey, bitch!"

Like??? I can't blame Charlie for being annoyed as all hell, okay? I get the sense that she's been putting up with this bullshit for a VERY long time ad she's lost all patience for it. She's done. She's sick of it. She's been disappointed one too many times.

Also, yes, it's not just that Lucifer has been an absent father but he's been a neglectful ruler too. I wouldn't be surprised if Pentagram City has as much respect for him as they do for Charlie. I mean

HE SIGNED OFF ON THE EXTERMINATIONS

Lucifer gave the go-ahead for a yearly genocide of the people he rules over. Can we get some repercussions for that? Do you know how many people lost their friends? Family? Lovers? Vaggie literally spared a child--a CHILD. And I doubt that was the first kid ever confronted by an Exorcist.

Imagine that Cherri died during an Extermination and here we have Angel Dust meeting the person who stepped aside and let it happen. Do you think he wouldn't be mad?

Imagine Carmilla did lose her daughters during that Extermination. Do you really think she'd meet Lucifer and feel nothing but anger and contempt?

Personally, I think Lucifer agreeing to the Exterminations is what fractured his and Charlie's relationship. Like, fully fractured it. That was the last nail in the coffin.

And honestly, I WANT Lucifer to see the consequences of the Exterminations. I want him to have repercussions because that was an INCREDIBLY SHITTY THING TO DO. I imagine he didn't think there was any other option, but we also know that he didn't hold the sinners in high regard anyway. He had the lowest of low opinions of them. I doubt it took much convincing for him to agree.

Lucifer is the oldest being in the Pride Ring--he may be the oldest being in Hell. He's the most powerful person there. He is the embodiment of Pride. And he ACTS LIKE IT IN THE SHOW.

He has acted that way towards Charlie too. He didn't go to her hotel with an open mind. He wasn't actually listening to her plan or taking it into consideration. He played stupid when she asked him what he thought about it. And when the hotel was under attack, instead of stopping it (which he could easily done with a snap of his fingers), he was smirking and acting self-satisfied as he gloated about being "right" about Sinners.

And if you think I'm exaggerating then go rewatch that entire scene.

Look at him

He is acting so smug and he is rubbing it in Charlie's face.

LOOK AT CHARLIE! She is in distress. She is angry. And she is hurting. Her hotel is falling to pieces around her, her friends are in danger, and the whole time she had her dad gloating in her ear about why her dream is, essentially, a waste of time.

And the only thing that snapped him out of it was Charlie asking why Alastor (the one actually protecting the hotel) has more faith in her than her own father. It took Charlie bringing up Alastor again for Lucifer to knock his shit off.

Look at how hurt and closed off Charlie is in the last screenshot. I can't imagine that this is the first time Lucifer has acted towards her in this way. Do I think Lucifer meant to hurt Charlie?

No.

But did he?

Hell-to-the-fucking-YES!

Lucifer is an asshole. He acted like an asshole towards Alastor. He's acted like an asshole towards Charlie. And he kind of acted like an asshole towards the rest of the Hazbin crew considering he didn't exchange a single line of dialogue with them. They introduced themselves to him and that was it. Lucifer spent the rest of the time dissing on Alastor and talking exclusively to Charlie and Vaggie.

Lucifer suffers from depression, yes, but that doesn't take away that he is as much of an asshole as any other character in the show. And I hate that being stripped away and getting turned into this sad, babied little man who's awkward and shy and everyone else is just being mean to him. It's so dull and it's such a disservice to his character.

I don't want sweet, shy little UwU Lucifer that needs to be coddled.

I want mean, condescending, ass-hole Lucifer who reaps the consequences of his actions and grows from them.

[hannah-chocolate]

Red Hood/Jason Todd

Headcanons

Before I start I'd like to say that this is the first time I've ever written something on tumblr so it may not be very good but I hope you can feel that I've captured a little of the essence of Jason's character with these headcanons, so remember this is a totally personal opinion and it's ok if you don't think the same as I do. By the way, my first language is not English (it's Spanish) so I might be wrong with some words, I apologize in advance for that.

The Lazarus pit healed all of Jason's scars and he didn't like this much because there were scars that had valuable meaning to him.

Thanks to the lazarus pit Jason ages slower.

Jason was pained that Bruce would remove him from the family portrait and not let him go to the opening of the hospital on behalf of Alfred.

Jason actually speaks very cleanly and only uses rude words when he is very angry or making jokes.

Jason actually gets along very well with dick and their differences only surface when it comes to moral issues (such as respecting batman's rule of not killing).

He often has many nightmares about the night the joker tortured him.

He prefers hamburgers over pizza.

Jason is the most sentimental of the bat-family (this is actually Canon, Damian said in a comic).

He has an amazing spelling and a very nice handwriting.

Romantic relationships don't usually last long because Jason usually thinks those girls deserve better than him.

He doesn't want to have children because he thinks the world is too cruel and hard to bring another child into this world (he thinks having children is selfish). Despite that Jason likes children very much and knows how to treat them very well.

Jason is an old soul.

He loves romantic and soft songs.

He loves to read and every time he has time he does so.

Jason music favorites are: Jazz, Rock, Rap, Hip-Hop, and Ballads.

He loves to cook because it relaxes him.

He likes video games very much.

He doesn't usually fall in love easily.

He loves cats and dogs alike.

He has a very large collection of guns which he often cleans and has a name for each one.

His favorite time of the year is Halloween.

Christmas is very depressing for him.

He would actually like to get married someday.

Jason thinks that every day many innocent people die in Gotham because of Bruce's absurd rule not to kill.

This would be the end, I hope you enjoyed it, I don't know if I will do a part 2 or keep writing, I guess it depends on how things go🥹💓

[simplysebby]

I got an ask saying "If narcissism isn't the 'bad person' disorder you're saying it isn't, then what is it?" and while I won't post the actual ask because they were rude and had a lot of underlying bigotry in their message, I did want to make a post.

What NPD looks like (for me, Tumblr user SimplySebby. I don't speak for all pwNPD).

1). I hate admitting when I do something wrong. I feel like I always need to be right. If someone confronts me for doing something wrong, my gut reaction is "No I didn't, you just don't understand." I'll sit alone and work my way through my thoughts until I find a way to rationalize my behavior as "good." I feel the need to be a beacon of moral purity. I must always have the "correct" opinions.

2). I hate myself. I see myself as a "bad person" even though logically I know that no such things exists. Nothing I do is ever good enough, no grade high enough, no achievement grand enough. I need to do better even when better isn't possible. And when I "fail," I fall apart and feel suicidal and depressed, like I'm worthless. Oftentimes I turn to self harm.

3). Similar to #1, but I have trouble apologizing. Saying the words "I'm sorry" can feel like "losing" or giving up at times. I always feel the need to "win" an argument even when I know I'm wrong.

4). I feel like I'm better than other people at times, but also worse. At the same time. It makes no sense but it still feels that way. Like on a scale of "amazing, beautiful, flawless person" to "worthless scum not worth the dirt on my shoes" I am on every point of that scale all at once.

5). I'm quick tempered. If I'm stressed or working through a problem and someone tries to offer advice or talks to me, I blow up at them and treat them like they're in the way. Oftentimes after doing this I feel guilty because I recognize I'm in the wrong, but I still have trouble apologizing because once I apologize I feel like the worst person ever. I did something I regret, which means I am not perfect, which means I am a horrible person who is incapable of redemption and I'm better off dead. It doesn't matter how small the issue is, either. Got told off for cussing in a place I shouldn't have cursed? Spiral to the point I end up sitting in my room alone sobbing and hurting myself. 100x worse when an "authority" figure is the one telling me off.

6). If someone doesn't like me, I panic and feel like shit. Sometimes I'll try and rationalize why they suck and they're wrong. It doesn't matter how small the dislike is. If somebody I don't know or don't have an opinion on or somebody I like so much as criticizes me, I fall apart. Sometimes I hate them for no other reason than they mildly dislike me.

7). I know all these thoughts aren't rational and don't make sense, that I'm being "over dramatic" and "blowing things out of proportion." I hate that I do these things and experience emotions like I do, but its not something I can control completely. I can try and wrangle it in using coping mechanisms like going to my room to calm down or counting, but it never fully disappears.

8). I have trouble empathizing with people. I have some empathy, but only in certain situations and its very selective. When someone I care about is upset, I want to make them less upset but I have trouble doing that. Sometimes people will vent to me and my gut response will be "I don't care. Please talk about something else."

9). If I don't like someone, I make it known. I won't put on the pretense of liking them. I've had people ask me to my face if I considered them a friend and have said "No, I don't like you" instead of phrasing it politely. I don't feel bad about this.

10). I'm very competitive. I hate losing and when I do lose my gut reaction is to find an excuse. Die in a game? Lag. Get hit in a game of dodgeball during PE? It didn't actually hit me, you just saw wrong. If I can't find an excuse, sometimes I just turn to cussing them out.

11). I'm argumentative. I'll scour comment sections looking for people saying bigoted stuff so I can tell them they're a bigot or tell them to stub their toe or tell them they suck or try and educate them or whatever the fuck else. It makes me feel better as a person. When I know/think I'm in the right and express my opinions, it makes me feel less like a horrible person. I always take things too far. Mild disagreement? I turn it into a full-blown argument. Fandom drama? I make a rant post about how these other people are wrong.

12). Some days, I don't feel real. I feel like I'm outside my own body, as if I was a reader reading a 3rd person book. I feel like my actions aren't my own. As if I'm a puppet getting paraded around by an unknown force. Like my body is outside my control.

13). When I'm upset or in a bad mood, I get violent thoughts. If I'm stressed or overstimulated (from my AuDHD or otherwise) and someone bumps into me, I spend the next three hours imagining myself strangling them or slamming their head into the wall.

14). I overshare and I like talking about myself. Teeheehee!! That's what I'm doing now!!

15). I lie. A lot. If I see a post and go, "it'd be funny if somebody replied with XYZ" I sometimes post that reply even if it isn't true. If somebody doesn't like me, I might make something up to make them like me more. If I'm arguing with someone and trying to make a point, I might bend the truth around to make my argument more convincing. 99% of my lies are little and don't really matter. Sometimes I start believing my own lies. A lot of times I don't realize I'm doing this until after the fact.

16). I'm scared! All the time! What if that person doesn't like me? What if that person saw me trip and now thinks I'm being "weird" for attention? What if people sees me make posts like this and posts me to r/FDC? What if I'm wrong about something and people think I'm doing things in bad faith? What if what if what if? Its exhausting. I'm tired.

I'm sorry I'm like this. I don't want to be like this. I want to change. I don't mean to hurt people. I promise I hate myself more than you hate me. Please cut me some slack when I display symptoms of the disorder I have publicly stated I have time and time again.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

This is a non-exhaustive list. This took me ages to write and I'm gonna go do something else now - though if I think of something else I might come add more.

I'll end this with what I am not: I am not lying, manipulating, and deceiving everyone I meet at every moment of the day. I am not doing the things I listed in this post every available moment (I do not lie every chance I have to lie, I do not escalate every single argument to full blown screaming matches, etc). I am not a monster in human skin. I am not trying to hurt people. I am not "unaware of the effects I have on others." I am not "out to get" anyone. I am not "just an asshole." I am not a lost cause not worth helping, I'm just a guy who's dad is really shitty and who's brain went and had a maladaptive response.

That is all.

[mimikoolover]

i’m a kookmin truther but how is the heart km photo more sus than possibly jk back hugging a woman? appearing to be teasing her where it doesn’t look totally platonic at all?

my belief is whether kookmin is STILL dating right now, at the very least kookmin fooled around more than once and their dynamic and relationship deserve some eyebrow raising if they’re seeing other people while doing the things they are doing.

however, it really boggles my mind when kookminers totally act like there’s nothing sus about those videos. it’s one thing to think that man wasn’t jk but to acknowledge it MIGHT be him, then you should also be more honest.

I genuinely think it was him. I cope by thinking that we had a vague timeline, although we have an idea given the hairstyle that man had. I cope by believing JK and Jimin tried to date, broke up, see other people and whatever they are doing months before enlisting.

I always held onto the belief that they have such a peculiar relationship. That if something is truly going on, good for them and for me, as i can say I’m not surprised. However, if in this universe they never truly “officially” dated, i would have so many questions and i definitely feel bad about their significant others.

i think in your mind him being in a straight relationship is automatically more realistic. imo you can't infer anything sus from the video because they're not kissing or even sitting on the couch cuddling. jungkook is quite a playful person i assume with everyone so back hugging isn't that sus. if you remember (you may not) the picture of him with the tattoo artist, he was back hugging her too so...you could argue that was sus? if he took a pic like the heart arch pic with a woman, would you think that was more sus than the video or not? i think for all of us thinking objectively is hard because what we feel will be influenced by our internal biases and how we think about jikook too. but it's not like i /want/ jikook to date each other. i'm fine with whatever they are. i'm not fighting you on your opinion for that reason. if i'm honest one of the reasons why i think the video wasn't sus is because he went on to deny having a gf right after the leak which i'm pretty sure was the truth, given his don't give a fuck attitude in 2023, i doubt he would have denied it if it were true, especially as that has not happened before (with the tattoo artist). so maybe he dated her earlier and not by the time he denied it but idk.

peculiar is the right word but tbh i don't think either of them had a significant other you'd have to feel sorry for, as in even if they were casually seeing other ppl i don't think it ever got very far (so far). if it did i think jikook may have 'cooled off' from each other especially jungkook cause he seems (again just my perception of him) very dedicated to the person he loves given how he's followed jimin around like a puppy, complained about not spending time with him etc. he would quite happily be with jimin 24/7 so if that were his S/O i bet they'd get at least this level of sole dedication.

funnily i think about the content of your ask quite a lot...i also think it's interesting that this topic only comes up concerning jungkook and not 'sus' things about jimin that tbh i don't even bother looking into but saw a bit about back in the day (that actress posting from his place or whatever?).

there are a lot of things (gossip) about jikook and all members of bts, like any other celebs but tbh i made peace with not ever really knowing for sure. when liam payne died and it came out he lied about having kidney issues to cover up going to rehab, for some reason that really stuck with me (in addition to him hiring 2 sex workers before he died...) like we don't know celebs lol i will say with bts, i don't think they do stuff in secret that will disappoint us or be scandalous. but i can see jikook dating each other and them also not dating each other, i guess when we get confirmation of either we still won't know any details. so to me it doesn't make that much of a difference what i think about this all lol.

[wolfpackmuses]

I honestly can not believe 2024 is nearly over. Like, I really can't, this year has been kind of wild, in my opinion, and I think that's only leading into what I think is going to be an even wilder 2025.

As some of y'all might know, I had a few things happen this year in my personal life. I steamed ahead in my research for my master's degree (which is in the final phases now which is wild), I got an internship with the Weather Service over the summer to get some job experience, I traveled quite a few times to the Orlando area to visit my brother and sister, and most recently: I presented my research at a major conference in Washington D.C..

Not only did I do all of this, I had a fantastic year writing with all of you. I know my activity is all over the place and I have wild swings in when I want to actually write and all, but I have had a great year interacting with y'all and being able to meet so many great people. I don't think I had this much fun writing in a long time and the fact I added so many new muses to this blog (as well as making an entirely new one for my Baldur's Gate 3 OC, @bloodsoakedurge) added to the chaos that is this blog.

I have so many great threads and interactions I've had this year from all of you and I couldn't have asked for a more supportive community for me here on this blog. I didn't expect to be at the point I am now when I changed to a multiuse back in April 2023, but I think it might have been one of the best decisions I've ever made here on Tumblr. The fact it led to me meeting so many fantastic mutuals, so many great interactions, and that I have been able to share my joy of writing with all of you has been one of my favorite things to do in my spare time.

So from the bottom of my heart to all of you, I just want to say thank you. I genuinely could not have done all of this without y'all and I love all of you for your support over the past year or two since I rebranded this account. I don't think y'all will ever fully see how much I truly care about y'all, but just know that I absolutely do.

So here's to a fantastic New Year and to all the new muses I add along the way. Chaos has already been brewing with some of my new muses and I hope it can lead to me meeting so many more new and fantastic people in 2025.

Happy New Year from me to all of you. I hope all of you have a great New Year.

[henry-fox-biggest-stan]

Lotr and stranger things: Masterpost

I also mention dnd when it’s relevant to the lotr parallels.

(You can read this with absolutely no knowledge on lotr or dnd don’t worry)

@somewiseoutthere @itwasaseven7 @beomgyubestie @thy-lovelylionheart @itachisnipplesharingan <3

The thing is that stranger things isn’t a lotr retelling, so there are many parallels to several characters. It isn’t “oh, this character parallels ONLY this lotr character”, no, many characters have several parallels with several lotr characters. Let’s get to it.

Mike, the insecure hero.

Mike “it was the best thing I’ve ever done” Wheeler and Sam “it was the bravest thing he ever did” Gamgee. Many people also see Sam as a paladin (those with joy and whimsy and gayness in their hearts) (no but srs I’ve seen several people call him a paladin), even if he’s commonly known as a cleric. And guess who’s character is a paladin. And guess who is a cleric?

(Let’s focus on mike’s sheet rn).

From Worlds Turned Upside Down, official book. It has all the party’s dnd sheets, not their dnd character’s dnd sheets, but THEIR dnd sheet, as if they were dnd characters. This is not Mike’s character, but Mike Wheeler (you can see it, played by Finn, is a DM, etc). And would you look at that, he is a cleric.

In the Hawkins Middle School Yearbook there’s the boys’ characters’ dnd sheets. Take them with a grain of salt since idk if they’re canon, but it says that mike’s race is a halfling. Yeah ok.

Sam is also not the most confident person out there, always selling himself short and calling himself names, even tho he makes very good poetry and he literally fought against shelob and won. Sure he used frodo’s (bilbo’s) sword which is a cool, sharp sword, but like, shelob is a primordial being. That’s like Mike (with his 12 year old height) having a very cool sword and using it to fight all alone a grown size demogorgon (with absolutely no fighting experience, let alone sword wielding experience) who is inmortal and has existed since the beginning of time, and then winning.

Also the Frodo “dying” scene is kinda similar to s1? Like, Sam is trying to protect Frodo even tho Shelob already has poisoned him (Mike looking for Will even tho he’s already in the upside down) and when he was done with shelob he saw Frodo “dead”, and cried and decided to go and take the ring to mount doom, and then come back for Frodo (Mike seeing Will’s “body” at the quarry, going away crying in his bike and stopping the search, also smth smth mike jumping into the quarry, same place wills “body” was found, while Sam wanted to go back to Frodo’s body after destroying the ring and then not leave him, aka dying [This is an unpopular opinion, but I always thought that this scene: “It would not be worth while to leave his master for that [vengeance]. It would not bring him back. Nothing would. They had better both be dead together. And that too would be a lonely journey. He looked on the bright point of the sword” and “Good-bye, master, my dear!’ he murmured. ‘Forgive your Sam. He’ll come back to this spot when the job’s done – if he manages it. And then he’ll not leave you again.” obviously references Sam thinking about suicide (although he dismisses the idea quickly), since it’s not like we don’t see suicide in lotr (denethor), but not everyone seems to agree with this interpretation]), but then Sam overheard the orcs mention Frodo was alive, so he went back for him (El showing Mike that Will is still alive, and Mike beginning to look for him again).

About byler and Sam and Frodo, there’s also a class difference in both relationships.

Dart parallels gollum (explained more below, where I talk about Dustin) and Mike’s behavior and opinion regarding dart is so similar to Sam’s over gollum.

Also Frodo? Mike’s parallels with Max, who ALSO parallels Frodo. Shelob wrapped frodo on her web. Mike has web imagery (as does max and other characters that are in danger, trapped, etc. Smth smth henry and spiders, smth smth Max and Mike web imagery, smth smth falling into Henry's web, getting trapped, getting vecnad (Mike is so getting vecna’d idk what to tell you the evidence is just ABUNDANT). Shelob is female which also adds to all of mothergate, but whatever). Frodo “died”. This theory of mike temporarily dying in s5.

If we get a scene with mike getting vecnad choosing whether he should stay or he should go (s4 Dustin's voice: "get it?") and he's metaphorically dangling from the edge and the people outside vecna’s vision (specially will) are calling his name panicked and he has to chose whether to die (remember mike's horrible mental health and him stepping off the cliff in s1) or live and go forward, I'll go insane. Cause I'll be an obvious parallel to frodo literally dangling off the edge of a cliff in the return of the king movie with, on top of the cliff, Sam, offering his hand and a escape, a life. On the other, the ring, and flames, death. And he chooses life. Also the cliff scene in s1 mentioned before, also paralleled to this frodo scene, with Dustin/Sam telling him to "don't do it" (aka, "don't you let go"). But he does. He's saved, but he does. I guess it puts el (who saves him) in Sam's position aswell (it is Sam who pulls frodo forward so he doesn't fall). Having a scene like the one described before in s5 could be an awesome parallel, in s1 mike chooses death (for Dustin, but he also has some other personal reasons). In s5, mike chooses life. In s1, mike was willing to die for his friends (and cause he wants to). In s5 mike is willing to live for his friends (and because he wants to).

[poetic cinema]

Also Mike having his hero moment, probably with a sword since 1- his character is a paladin and 2- Sam kills shelob with Frodo’s sword. @aemiron-main has lots of posts on this whole concept. Also smth smth Henry/Shelob parallels, and Sam hurts Shelob…

Also his post on mike/arwen parallels

Mike himself being a cleric makes me insane. Bro wants to be a knight so bad but he’s a healer. And this isn’t something bad. In fact clerics are pretty important because of their healing abilities (“you’re the heart!”). You can perfectly play without one, but it’s encouraged to have one just in case. Clerics also fight, they’re not just healers btw.

I think it may be a way to show than the person who mike actually is vs the person who mike wants to be are two completely different people. Smth smth insecurity and wrapped perception of self, smth smth thinks low of himself because he’s comparing himself to people that don’t make sense for him to compare himself to (fictional characters, El who literally has superpowers and has been raised as a weapon, Nancy who is older than him and had more practice with guns out of necessity, and also more years spent writing than him [he’s not “an ace reporter” like Louis lane, however who is an ace reporter? Nancy], anyway “you can’t judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree”), smth smth internalized homophobia, smth smth wants to be this cool, mature, adult guy (s3) but in order to be that he has to change himself. Whatever.

(Adding to this, Mike wants to be Lucas so bad, actually. Lucas is the opposite of Mike, he’s how heterosexuality is actually performed (genuinely and naturally), he’s the older sibling, Mike was very “we don’t wanna be popular” in s4, but it definitely bothered him that Lucas COULD be popular while knowing that if he tried he would fail, they even have that scene fighting over the same character in s2 (both wanna be venkman).

To prove this further, during the scene where Will destroys castle byers, we can see that the photo of the whole party that he stares at is inside a frame. A frame made out of ice cream sticks, so handmade. And in each stick, there's written the name of a member of the party. Will The Wise on top, on the left, Lucas the Knight, down, Dustin the Bard, and on the right, Mike the DM.

Lucas is a knight… aka a paladin…

Mike is not even a character but the DM… Why is Mike titled as a DM instead of his dnd class? Does he not play too? (Except he does because his character is a paladin. Unless he doesn't, and when he called himself a paladin in s2 while naming everyone's classes he was just naming what he thought his role in the party was - remember that one post? I can't find it but it basically said that Mike called himself a paladin and Will a cleric cause that's how he sees both of them. their relationship and role in the party)

It also makes up ask ourselves other question like, why isn't Will "Will the Wizard" or "Will the Cleric" (since everyone else is named as their dnd role, not their characters name)? Or, why is Lucas a knight?

(Regina George's voice: so you agree, Mike is the DM and most important character and everyone else are just players? (manifestation theory). So you agree, Will is not titled with his dnd class because he DOES have powers irl? So you agree, Mike wants to be a paladin but it is Lucas who is the knight, aka, Mike wants to be Lucas?)

Anyway.

Will (with his own weight to carry).

Will is Frodo and the mind flayer is the one ring.

Frodo suffering the effects of the ring causing personality changes, thoughts that weren’t his own etc, and the same thing happening to Will while he was possessed. The movie scene where Frodo holds a sword against Sam’s throat, and Will choking Joyce. “As Will's connection with the Mind Flayer grew deeper, he started becoming more demoralized and scared” same with Frodo as the quest went in. Also if Frodo put on the ring, sauron would feel it, just like how Will was the spy. The mind flayer getting out of Will’s body thanks to heat, and the ring only being destroyed by casting it into the fires of Mordor. “I felt this evil like it was looking at me”, the eye of Sauron. Frodo getting attacked by shelob (huge immortal spider) (Sam thought he was dead), and Will getting possessed by the mind flayer (spider-shaped) (he almost died). Frodo was willing to sacrifice himself (he didn’t think he would make it to mount doom alive, and that if he did, that he wouldn’t come back. He expected to die during the quest and yet he continued), Will was willing to sacrifice himself (Morse code tapping: close gate. It’s not explained in canon, but I believe he knew it would kill him. Also, he was gonna sacrifice himself to close the gate, and the scene of El closing the gate in s2 is already paralleled to Frodo in mount doom (more below, where I talk about el), so Will (Frodo) was gonna sacrifice himself to close the gate (destroy the ring). Basically what happened in the books then).

Frodo is also an almost Christ-like figure (specially l considering Tolkien’s Catholicism). Christ who died for our sins (Frodo sacrificing everything and himself to save middle earth), who carried the cross in which he would be hung (Frodo carrying the ring, a great weight, and that destroyed him), unmarried, Jesus and his disciples (Frodo and the fellowship), mercy and forgiveness, etc etc. Where am I going with this? Will’s Jesus-coding.

Frodo is also a very tragic character, however he has a hopeful ending.

We technically meet him as a teenager (the day before his 33th birthday, which for hobbits is basically their 18th birthday), and then he is thrust unwillingly into a dangerous quest and becomes irrevocably changed. There is a big contrast with the Frodo from before (happy, normal hobbit) and the Frodo from after (very traumatized, cannot go back). Kinda resembles someone’s character story… And frodo also knew tragedy before everything (the death of his parents) just like Will also knew tragedy before the upside down (his fathers abuse, bullying). Hell, they even share a birthday (on different months). Both were born on the 22th.

Frodo endured so much and sacrificed so many parts of himself to save everyone, and yet he’s called weak and boring (by the fandom) for not engaging in many physical combats, and crying. Will endured so much and sacrificed so many parts of himself to save everyone, and yet he’s called weak and boring (by the fandom) for not engaging in many physical combats (and having his fight or flight response be freeze), and crying. I find both Frodo and Will some of the most compelling and interest characters from both lotr and stranger things. Also frodo lost a finger (physical representation of how much the quest changed him and how he won’t be going back to normal ever). This theory of Will losing a hand in s5 by @pinkeoni… Beren and Maedhros (characters from the silmarillion) also lost a hand. Beren is paralleled to Frodo (and Aragorn), who’s paralleled to Will. Lúthien (Beren’s wife) is paralleled to both Arwen and Sam, who are paralleled to Mike… Maedhros killed himself, Beren died but came back… This theory of Will dying but coming back… Also Frodo got stabbed by a morgul blade, and “though the knife's blade dissolved soon afterwards, a fragment remained within Frodo's wound, working its way toward his heart and threatening to turn Frodo into a wraith. Elrond was able to remove the shard and heal the wound, but each year on the anniversary of receiving the wound Frodo became seriously ill” vs Will feeling whatever he feels on his neck ever since the possession. (Also each year on the anniversary Frodo becomes ill vs “The anniversary of an event brings back traumatic memories” vs the attention brought to birthdays in lotr (specifically Frodo’s) vs birthdaygate…)

Will lost his memories as s2 went on, as the possession from the mind flayer went on. As the quest goes on, Frodo keeps on losing memories. He loses himself and his mind to the ring, and “as I lay in prison, Sam, I tried to remember the Brandywine, and Woody End, and The Water running through the mill at Hobbiton. But I can't see them now” / “Do you remember that bit of rabbit, Mr. Frodo?” he said, “And our place under the warm bank in Captain Faramir's country, the day I saw an oliphaunt?” “No, I am afraid not, Sam,” said Frodo. “At least, I know that such things happened, but I cannot see them. No taste of food, no feel of water, no sound of wind, no memory of tree or grass or flower, no image of moon or star are left to me”. Also smth smth memorygate (x, x). It is memories that help against Vecna, not having them makes you more vulnerable, a perfect victim. One of the reasons Frodo was so depressed during the quest is because he was slowly losing the memories of his life before, only seeing the ring and Mordor and fire.

Also, talking about Frodo, you ever wondered what Frodo’s name means?

For a little linguistic context, Tolkien was even more crazy about languages than I am (if that’s even possible), and we know that he simply translated lotr which was written by Frodo and Sam in Adûni (Westron). Frodo’s real name is Maura, which in Westron means “wise”. Tolkien translated this name into Frodo, a proto-Germanic name, which is a real name people used, and that also means “wise”. Will the Wise.

Regarding dnd, Will’s character is a wizard and/or cleric (going back to that post of Mike calling Will a cleric cause that’s how he sees Will and his role in the party). Will himself (see character sheets above) is a magic-user. This is crazy to me tbh it just confirms the Will has powers theories (talking about Will with powers, Frodo might have also used magic, even if unknowingly…).

Looking at you, s5 episode 4 called Sorcerer that contains the baby byler flashback.

Talking about sorcerers, Gandalf (although described repeatedly as a wizard in lotr), by dnd standards, is a sorcerer. Same with Saruman and with Radagast (Will is paralleled to all three of them). Sorcerers are born with their magic, wizards learn it.

Clerics focus on healing although they also fight (and have magic powers), wizards and sorcerers have yknow magic powers. A magic-user is an umbrella term for anyone who uses magic, let it be a wizard, a cleric, a mage, a warlock (if we’re assigning classes to lotr characters, Frodo is commonly associated with warlocks. Warlocks are those who “strike a deal (sometimes unwillingly) with greater powers known as 'patrons' who grant them magical abilities” like Frodo getting the power of being invisible thanks to ring. Those patrons are usually evil. Depends on how you think will got his powers, if he had them since birth or got them thanks to the lab/the upside down, etc).

Will is either a wizard or sorcerer, or a light domain cleric, since he can use fireball. Will found a way to communicate with the lights in s1… However the party are level 3 (in all the character sheets I found) and (light domain) clerics can only use fireball from level 5 and up? So it makes more sense for him to be a wizard (or a sorcerer), who can use fireball since level 3.

I also find it funny that despite Will’s character being “Will the wise” he has the lowest wisdom points out of the whole party. Will’s armor class is also 7. It was a seven.

Will The Wise.

The duffers cannot keep getting away with this.

Who is labeled as The Wise in lotr? Saruman, and Will has saruman parallels (we’ll get there) but hold your horses, cause that’s not all of it. Gandalf is also called Gandalf the Wise, at least once (“For nearly thirty years he laboured in the cause against Sauron; and he became a friend of Gandalf the Wise, from whom he gained much wisdom”, the appendix about Aragorn and Arwen’s romance). And Gandalf died and came back, like Will, but he came back changed, no longer Gandalf the grey but Gandalf the white (having adapted the title of one of the spies of sauron). Kinda like how Will died but then came back changed (and kept having visions of the mind flayer…). Coming back to this theory of Will sacrificing himself to save everyone in s5 but then coming back to life…

Radagast, password to castle byers (so it has something to do with Will), and also one of the five maias sent to middle earth to defeat sauron. “Radagast lives at Rhosgobel on the western eaves of Mirkwood”. Mirkwood reference (we’ll get there there’s SO MUCH surrounding Mirkwood). Who lives near Mirkwood? (Mirkwood as in the road in st) Will, his house is like next to it.

“Radagast was unwittingly used by Saruman to lure Gandalf to his tower of Orthanc, where Gandalf was captured. Fortuitously, Radagast also helped rescue him by sending Gwaihir the eagle to Orthanc with news of the movements of Sauron's forces.” vs “Hopper becomes trapped in the tunnels and passes out. […] Will has a vision of Hopper, leading Joyce to recruit Bob's help to determine its meaning. Bob identifies Will's drawings as a map of Hawkins and the pumpkin field as the place Hopper was going. […] Joyce, Bob, Will, and Mike rescue Hopper,” so the same thing then. Will/Radagast saving Hopper/Gandalf.

“Radagast is "the friend of all birds and beasts,” Will *couldn’t bring himself to shot at a literal monster* *kindness personified* Byers.

Later, he get possessed, becoming the spy.

The spy. Saruman.

Saruman became a spy of Sauron. He used a palantir, a sphere used for communication, to communicate with Sauron (although the palantir does not transmit sound, only images and thoughts). Not unlike Will being able to “communicate” with the mind flayer, having vision of what it was doing and thoughts of what it was thinking.

“The master stones of north and south were able to 'eavesdrop' on such external conversations”, unlike Saruman who was a willing spy, Will wasn’t, the mind flayer was just spying back. “Eavesdropping” you could say, but it also saw what Will saw.

Saruman also called himself “Saruman of Many Colours” at one point. Saruman of Many Colours vs Will’s rainbow spaceship, in which he used all the colours he had.

All of these are wizards/sorcerers/whatever. We get it, duffers, Will has powers.

+ By the way, what about Rosie? Sam’s wife? Who is she? Well, certainly not El. Rosie is Sam’s childhood friend, a string of normalcy after all his adventures. Rosie represents home, and safety, and comfort, and the life he left behind (remember that for Tolkien adventures weren’t something to strive for, after all he lived during wwi, Frodo is irrevocably changed by his adventures, “I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend”). Rosie fell in love with him before knowing that he helped save middle-earth, aka, she fell in love with him when he was “nobody”, without knowing he was a hero. Reminds me of someone who doesn’t feel like a hero and is very insecure. Reminds me of their childhood best friend who is a string of normalcy, of the life they had before, who loved him before he was a hero and before he fought monsters, and fell in love with him, just him. I don’t know who, tho. Mike asking Will to be his friend was “the best thing I ever did”. Sam asking Rosie to be his wife was “the bravest thing he ever did”. Huh. Reminds me of “mike wants to be a hero like el / will wants to be a love interest like el”.

Also, this really caught my eye. “and it is not a dissimilar notion to hold Rosie and Frodo up as the anima and animus aspects of the same character”. I’ve read a theory about el as an anima of Will so when I saw this I was like no way. Do I believe that theory? Tbh no, just like I don’t believe Tolkien wrote Rosie and Frodo as the same character, but the fact that both characters can be interpreted in the same way, in different fandoms as a pure coincidence is so curious.

But despite all the character he parallels, he’s Frodo. He’s so frodo it hurts. If I had to assign a single lotr character to each st character, Will would be frodo.

El, the “mage”.

I see El as Gandalf. Sure they’re very different, but they’re also very similar. Gandalf, while helping the fellowship (and thorin’s company in the hobbit) in everything, also has his own adventures, goes away for a while to do something and then comes back. That’s something El does constantly. El is also described as a “mage” by Mike (who then describes Will as a cleric even tho his dnd character is a wizard but his class is magic user. But we’ll get to that). Gandalf is also the one who comes to get them out of trouble, for example, Gandalf kinda sacrifices himself (but then comes back) to defeat the Balrog, Gandalf is also who the hobbits and tbh everyone relies on to solve problems, Gandalf seems to always have the answer even if not always. Kinda like how El is the one doing the physical job (aka, closing the gate, fighting the monsters) and saving everyone, being a superhero. You can specially see this in s1 and s2, where in s1 El appears in the woods to help them find Will, then she leaves, and then comes back just in time to rescue Mike (who jumped of a cliff) and break troy’s arm (also how El never uses her powers against anyone who doesn’t deserve it but is able to use them for harm, while Gandalf never uses his powers against anyone who doesn’t deserve it but does threaten people with turning them into animals), and where in s2 she’s off doing her own thing, until she comes back just in time to close the gate. Same thing in s3 and s4, her off with max, and then her off in NINA.

Gandalf "died" while fighting the balrog to protect the fellowship. El also "died" while fighting the demogorgon to protect the party. They both came back, after everyone had already mourned them.

Gandalf is also of unsure origins. Very old, older that time itself, doesn’t really know where he came from etc. idk what you want me to say but Jane is NOT El those are two completely different girls (even Terry says so, “no”), so where exactly does El come from? There are many theories about that, but let’s leave it aside. Also, when Gandalf appears you know the characters are gonna get involved on an adventure (whether they want to or not), just like el’s appearance made the party get involved with the supernatural.

Gandalf ended up going to the grey havens after the destruction of sauron since he was only sent to middle earth to protect it from him. Many many theories regarding el’s potential ending… (some here, here, here and here)

Now to the silmarillion (i actually haven’t read it😔 I have a physical copy and I’ve started it but I can’t get into it😔)

Someone named Annatar arrived to a place called Eregion. In Eregion lives Celebrimbor, among other elves. Annatar seemed like an elf, and claimed to have been sent by the Valar (gods, basically) to share his wisdom and skill, specially on ring craft and jewelry. Not suspicious at all. Celebrimbor says “cool” and him and the smiths of Eregion followed Annatar’s guidance and instructions, and they created the rings of powers (which were like, a massive deal). Turns out that, surprise, Annatar was Sauron in disguise, who then went home and created the one ring to control all of middle earth. Yay.

Kinda like Henry tricking El, not telling her he was 001, being evil, and all that.

“Later Sauron reassumed his role as the Dark Lord and placed the One Ring on his finger, claiming dominion over all the Rings of Power and their bearers. Before this, Celebrimbor believed Sauron to be what he had claimed to be, but realising the truth he and the Elves of Eregion defied Sauron by withholding the other rings from him.”

When El notices the Henry is, well, evil and murdering everyone, vanishes him off to dimension x.

Celebrimbor died. He was killed by Sauron with many arrows. Ouch.

“far from joining Fëanor's rebellion, she opposed him in nearly everything.” Fëanor is a rebel, Galadriel opposed him in nearly everything. Fëanor and Henry parallels…

“And that she wished to leave Valinor and go to the vast world of Middle-earth, to give free rein there to her talents. She went for a time to live with her mother's relatives in Alqualondë.” El escaping the lab, going to visit her “mom” and Kali in s2. (You could even say her living with Mike on s1. Lukeandleiagate…)

Cool similarity I’ve seen, even if it wasn’t intentional. Éowyn, strong, badass, and complex female character, was supposed to die but Tolkien changed his mind. El, strong, badass, and complex female character, was supposed to die but the duffers changed their minds.

Also, “In order to provide a distraction so Eleven and Hopper could safely reach the Gate, Mike, Lucas, Dustin, Max, and Steve went into the tunnels to burn them” (s2) reminds me of Aragorn and everyone distracting Sauron so that Frodo and Sam could destroy the ring.

Max (and life).

I can definitely see (s4) Max as Éowyn. Éowyn who was depressed and suicidal at the start of the story and takes part (willingly) in a war, wants to die in battle, killed the witch king, and then she collapsed for some time. Éomer finds her and thinks she’s dead but after she’s been brought to the houses of healing and is unconscious for some time, she wakes. She also chooses life, she becomes a healer rather than a warrior. “Then the heart of Éowyn changed, or else at last she understood it. ... I will be a shieldmaiden no longer, nor vie with the great Riders, nor take joy only in the songs of slaying. I will be a healer, and love all things that grow and are not barren." Max wanting to die until she’s face to face with death, and suddenly she doesn’t want to anymore, she’s not ready. Max holding on to happy memories. Éowyn disguises herself as a man, Owens thinks that Max is a boy.

Éowyn wants to fight in the war until she actually does, and then sees it’s horror. Max doesn’t really take the upside down and everything seriously at first (s2) until she does. Éowyn was believed to be dead but then she wasn’t. Max died until El brought her back. Her brother Éomer has a scene in the movies hugging her body and crying and screaming cause he thinks she’s dead. So does Lucas.

Also reminds me a bit of sam and frodo, since the pose is the same (seriously, look at the position of Lucas’s arms vs Sam’s arms. Literally same pose). Talking about Sam and Frodo,

“Death” scene parallels. Except Frodo wasn’t dead, just completely paralyzed to the point that in the book it says Sam couldn’t even feel a heartbeat, but he was alive and woke up hours later. And then there’s Max who died but El brought her back (made her have a heartbeat again). Lucas thought she was dead during this, Sam thought Frodo was dead during this. Frodo in return of the king eventually woke up and they have a lovely reunion. Max in s5…

Max also has web imagery, just like frodo got wrapped in a web (smth smth henry and spiders, the mind flayer being spider-shaped, shelob, etc). And, during the fellowship of the ring, when they are at Weathertop, Frodo gets stabbed by a Morgul blade, causing temporal blindness.

As I mentioned before with Mike, the scene of her getting vecna’d (at the cemetery) and seeing a escape (a kind of metaphorical portal, her seeing her friends) and then having choose between death or life, and choosing life, feels so much like Frodo dangling from the cliff at mount doom in the movies, having to choose between let Sam pull him up (life) or follow the ring (death). It shows he’s not 100% corrupted by the ring, and that he still has people who care about him (that unlike gollum, he’s not too far gone), and that he cares about (just like Max’s memories are about her love for others, not the love others have for her. Frodo offers Sam his hand not because Sam wants him to live, but because he wants to live, and he loves Sam more than he loves the ring).

Also during the Frodo “death” scene, in the book, Sam is there and tries to save him but he’s too late, just like Lucas not saving Max in time because of Jason.

We also see that memories help against Vecna. Like Max’s running up that hill montage, it’s her memories of her love for others and good times that saved her. Without these memories, she would have died. Similar thing happens to Sam, in Mordor, he remembered old memories. “and now as once more the night of Mordor closed over them, through all his thoughts there came the memory of water; and every brook or stream or fount that he had ever seen, under green willow-shades or twinkling in the sun, danced and rippled for his torment behind the blindness of his eyes. He felt the cool mud about his toes as he paddled in the Pool at Bywater with Jolly Cotton and Tom and Nibs, and their sister Rosie”.

“Oh but she’s paralleled to Frodo, not Sam. And Frodo loses his memories” yeah and so might max in s5… However Frodo loses them because he’s so affected by the ring. The moment the ring is destroyed, he can see clearly again. I think same will happen to Max (and Will). If Vecna has their memories, when Vecna is defeated where will they go? Back to their rightful owners.

Théoden dies, and so does Billy, and we have a scene with both Éowyn and Max crying for them. This parallel I’m not so sure about, but worth mentioning.

Also a bit of Thorin? I mention later the Bilbo/Lucas parallels, and this makes Max Thorin. Thorin dies (actually dies), unlike max who is not really dead, but thorin starts The Hobbit not really knowing Bilbo and not being particularly close with him (like max at the beginning of s2 with Lucas), but over time they become friends and get closer (s2/s3 lumax), until thorin gets upset about Bilbo giving up the arkenstone because he was dealing with gold sickness and this makes them drift apart (max breaking up with Lucas because of her own mental health and them drifting apart in between s3-s4 and beginnings of s4), except that before Thorin dies, they make up, but it’s too late (lumax making up and Max beginning to let Lucas in again, except that before they can make their movie date happen, Vecna gets her).

Lucas, (the ranger)

I see a bit of Bilbo in Lucas. Not really any explanation for this one just vibes. Like, a character living a life away from adventure and danger and freaking out when this life is disturbed (the dwarfs arriving to bilbos house, them finding El in the woods), who is also very realistic and has common sense (telling mike to tell his mom about el and rightfully freaking out), has good strategy, and is very sarcastic. Also maybe Lucas’ s5 personal arc? Like, Bilbo was all nice and respectable before the adventure and fit in with the other hobbits (s4 Lucas “conformity” Sinclair), then during his adventure he saw horrors and someone he loved die (Thorin, whether you see it as romantic or platonic), and then when he came back he was just like who cares and was as a strange as he wanted to be, didn’t care about criticism and proudly called himself odd.

Lucas’ character is also a ranger. Rangers are inspired by Aragorn, who is literally referred to as “ranger” in the books several times. Aragorn is a man who loves his friends and those he cares about and kisses them on the forehead and has been in love with the same woman all his life and isn’t like aggressive or feels the need to be the leader/hero (despite being the one leading the group once Gandalf is gone). This does not mean he doesn’t know how to get his hands dirty, he knows, but he knows when to do it and when not to. Plus it’s not like he relies on violence every time, violence is like the last option, but he can defend himself and those he cares about perfectly well. Lucas is pretty much exactly like this, and he’s also the most traditionally masculine out of the party.

Idc if it’s not on the books, Arwen fighting at helm’s deep in the movie’s deleted scene is real in my heart, so you also have Aragorn as this typically masculine guy, strong and capable, with a wife who will absolutely kick your ass and his ego does not feel threatened by this in the slightest.

Elrond (Arwen’s dad) didn’t want his daughter to be with Aragorn because he was a mortal (not out of any prejudice against mortals, but because mortals, well, died, and elves didn’t, so Aragorn’s death would cause Arwen a lot of pain, and Arwen might also make the choice to turn mortal to be with him, which she did, and Elrond didn’t want this cause it would mean he would lose his daughter someday), but Aragorn married Arwen anyway. Billy (Max’s step-brother) didn’t want Max to date Lucas because he was black (out of racism). Aragorn and Arwen’s relationship was a bit complicated at first, cause of difference in species (?), and Lumax’s relationship was a bit complicated at first, cause of racism.

Dustin, (never change)

I also see a bit of Bilbo in Dustin, a character who’s actually very smart and gets everyone out of trouble / figures stuff out, seriously very good plans (idc what you say the thing with the arkenstone was genius he almost stopped a war), very good talker (talking to Smaug, talking to gollum) (remember Dustin’s character is a bard), knows niche stuff?? Like Dustin being really into science and maths, probably knowing obscure dnd rules by heart, and then Bilbo knowing several languages and elvish poetry and all these things.

Also Dustin is a thief (see character sheets above). Not his character (who is a bard), but him. Bilbo is the designated burglar of the group. Also Bilbo is very himself yknow. After coming back from his adventure he’s just as strange as he pleases and doesn’t care what the rest of the shire thinks. Similar to Dustin who doesn’t conform to the rest of the world and is unapologetically himself. Bilbo has been called “queer” (meaning strange), “cracked”, etc for being himself without hiding. Just like Dustin is bullied.

He also parallels Éowyn a bit. He’s Éowyn while Eddie is Théoden during Eddie’s death (see image below where I talk about Eddie), and you could also say that Éowyn having a little crush / admiration on Aragorn (who ended up married to Arwen) that didn’t go anywhere and they remained friends and then she married someone else (faramir) is similar to the whole Dustin/Lucas/max thing in s2. Dustin as Éowyn, Lucas as Arwen, and Max as Aragorn (+ éowyn developed a crush on aragorn after seeing him from the first time at rohan's castle. This is a man she hasn't seen before —so immediate attraction and curiosity, like s2 Dustin and Lucas towards max— and who is from the outside world and a fighter, just like how max is from California).

Dustin also lacks a romance plot. “He’s dating suzie” correct, but their relationship is entirely off-screen. They got together off-screen, and the only moments with them are the never ending story scene and Dustin calling Suzie at the start of s4, both of these long-distance. They mention each other, but they hardly have scenes together. Dustin’s plots are unrelated to romance, unlike the rest of the party’s. Mike’s almost constant romance plot (either with el or with will), Will’s s3 and s4 romance plot, lucas’ s2, s3, and s4 romance plot. With romance plot I mean than it’s important and related to their characters. They have other things going on, of course, but the romance takes plot time, it’s there, you can’t exactly take it away. With Mike, if you take away ALL romance there’s many scenes with him that disappear and lots of things about him we no longer know. Same with Will, and same with Lucas (but to a smaller degree). With Dustin, this doesn’t happen. Reminds me of Bilbo “confirmed bachelor” Baggins. And also Frodo (despite the fact that Frodo is gay asf). Good post about Dustin and romance here.

Bilbo and Frodo are extremely paralleled which makes Dustin have things in common with Frodo aswell (lack of a romance plot, takes pride in being odd, feeling pity for gollum).

Frodo barely has friends his own age. In the book, Sam is younger than him, and so are pippin and merry and fatty. He’s also friends with Gandalf, much older. He doesn’t have any friends his own age. Dustin has the party, but he’s also friends with Erica (younger) or Steve and Eddie (older).

Frodo doesn’t have a father (or mother) since his parents died. Dustin is the son of a single mom. Bilbo and Gandalf fill the role of Frodo’s paternal figure. Dustin being friends with so many older guys + the relationship the party (where everyone has absent dads except Lucas) had with mr Clarke might show a lack of father figure, and searching for one.

But if this doesn’t prove the Dustin/Frodo parallels (makes sense, these are a bit of a stretch), I realized they might be there with dart.

Dart

Dart is gollum. Only difference, dart saves Dustin & co and gollum betrays Frodo and Sam. But that’s because Dart had Dustin (took care of him) while gollum had Frodo (took care of him) + Sam (wanted to kill him). I’m not blaming Sam, but there’s a scene in the book where, after coming back from talking to shelob, gollum is super close to repenting and not betraying them, until Sam insults him after hurriedly waking up and unknowingly makes gollum go on with his plan. Smth smth kindness is rewarded. And we know stranger things is a show about friendship and kindness and nerds.

Let’s look at all the dart / lotr parallels.

Dustin grabbing dart while having no idea what dart is or where he came from. Bilbo grabbing a random ring he found while having no idea what it truly was. Dart being a demogorgon. That ring being the one ring. One difference though, Dart ends up saving them, and the one ring needs to be destroyed.

Dustin finds dart and decides to not kill him or throw him out, but take him in and take care of him, despite having no idea what he is. Bilbo finds gollum and, although he has the chance to kill him, decides to spare his life and run away. Will realizes dart looks like the slug he threw up but doesn’t tell anyone at first (“Why didn't you tell us before?” “I wasn't sure”). Frodo realizes gollum is following them but doesn’t tell anyone at first. When Mike finds out dart is from the upside down (which has hurt Will in the past, which has hurt them in the past) he wants to kill dart. When Sam finds out gollum is after the ring and wants to kill them, he’s 100% on board with killing him.

Frodo offers gollum his protection, and gollum begins trusting Frodo and being good and nice. Sam still doesn’t buy it and doesn’t understand the relationship Frodo has with gollum. Look at this exchange between Dustin and Mike in s2.

M: “Maybe he [dart] should be dead”

D: “how can you say that?”

M: “how can you not? He’s from the upside down!”

D: “Maybe, but even if he is, it doesn’t automatically mean that he’s bad”

M: “That’s like saying just because someone’s from the Death Star doesn’t make them bad”

D: “We have a bond”

M: “A bond? Just because he likes nougats?”

D: “No, because he trusts me!”

L: “He trusts you?”

D: “Yes! I promised I would take care of him”

Don’t tell me it’s not exactly what I explained above. Dustin is so extremely Frodo-coded in this scene. Also Dustin telling Mike to not hurt Dart, like the many times Frodo told Sam to be nice and not hurt Gollum. Mike’s “where'd you go, you little bastard?” while looking for Dart is so Sam aswell.

When Will finds Dart in the bathroom, he is gentle and tries to reassure him (but it doesn’t work out). Frodo keeps on talking with gollum and protecting him.

The scene in the tunnels where Dustin goes to talk to Dart is also similar to the scene in the books where the men find gollum and Frodo convinces them to not kill him, and to let him go talk to him, since he’ll listen to Frodo.

Dart allowes them to escape and basically saves their life. Gollum ends up being crucial to the destruction of the ring and basically saves Frodo. You see it. When they closed the gate, dart died. After the ring was destroyed, gollum died.

Nancy, who grew up too fast

(Look at this cute fanart of Nancy as Frodo and Robin as Sam)

Superficially, Nancy can be seen as Éowyn. Strong female characters who handles a weapon (sword / gun), and who are remembered by their scenes using said weapon, but who are actually much more complex that people give them credit for. Éowyn is depressed, and she feels stuck. She doesn’t want to be stuck in her life, doesn’t want to die without fighting, stuck in a castle, she wants to make her choice, and have autonomy. She doesn’t want to be like the women that came before her (which is not to say she doesn’t want to be a woman, she just wants to have the same freedom as a man). Nancy is also depressed, and she doesn’t want to be stuck in a loveless picket fence marriage, like her mother. Éowyn suffers from misogyny, so does Nancy. Éowyn ends up with mr nice guy Faramir. Nancy ends up with mr nice guy Jonathan.

Nancy is also similar to Frodo, but in a different way that will or max are. Theirs are more obvious parallels, while Nancy’s are a little more abstract. Frodo decided to take the ring to Mordor, was willing to face the challenge to do the right thing. That’s something Nancy would definitely do.

Nancy goes from normal carefree teenage girl to a traumatized woman with the burden of saving the world, a survivors guilt bigger than herself and the need to save everyone, no longer the same girl she was before. Same with Frodo!! He goes from a normal carefree hobbit to a traumatized hobbit with the burden of saving the world and guilt over claiming the ring at the last minute, no longer the hobbit he was before.

Nancy is also the leader, taking care of the kids, making the plans, shooting with her guns. Frodo is not the leader, but yknow what he is? Scared, normal, average, and also vital. Nancy is the same. Scared, normal, average, and very important. Nancy doesn’t have superpowers nor any kind of experience in battle or fights (like for example Hopper who is a war vet). And yet everyone turns to her. Just like how everyone counts on Frodo to destroy the ring so they can succeed in saving middle earth, everyone is always counting on Nancy, although neither Frodo nor Nancy have any kind of special ability or experience that makes them different to the others.

Nancy is also paralleled to Sam, believe it or not, specially since mike is Frodo. “What are you talking about? Their relationship is nothing like Sam and Frodo’s, the wheeler siblings are famously dysfunctional!” 100% agree, the wheeler siblings have everything but a perfect relationship, however there do is one singular scene (one. Seriously just one) that sets this parallel.

Vecna showing Nancy the future. What does that remind you of? Because I know what it reminds me of, and that is Galadriel showing Sam and Frodo the future through her mirror. Vecna showed Nancy glimpses, not the full picture, not the full scene, just tiny moments without context. Same thing Galadriel did to Sam and Frodo.

“Oh but why Sam? Nancy is already paralleled to Frodo” true again, except what did Frodo see in the mirror? The sea. That was his future, no one else’s, and it was a good future. He didn’t understand it yet, but Galadriel’s mirror showed him finding peace in the future (Frodo goes to Valinor at the end of rotk to find peace and healing).

What did the mirror show SAM, though? The scourning of the shire (Hawkins after Vecna won), his father being forced to leave the shire (whatever he saw happening to Karen and Holly), Frodo “dead” after being attacked by shelob (Mike — except Frodo wasn’t dead, and Sam didn’t interpret this vision correctly at first since he had no context. He thought Frodo was sleeping, and then when Frodo got attacked though “this is what the vision meant! He’s dead not asleep!” but both times he was wrong. I think the same will happen to Nancy, she might have seen mike “dead” but it will be something else), and him running to save Frodo (didn’t understand this one at first aswell). All the visions become true though, although they were different to what the characters guessed. Interested on the “creature with a gaping mouth”, will it be another incorrectly guessed vision, or will it be truly a creature with a gaping mouth?

When it comes to Nancy, saying “oh she’s similar to this character” is complicated, at least to me. Because Nancy is such a “her” character, she’s so herself, she’s one of her best female characters I’ve seen in media, super complex and interesting, despite the fandoms obsession with reducing her to a boring love triangle. The duffers said that they got inspired by the breakfast club for the creation of Nancy’s, Jonathan’s, and Steve’s characters, so it’s not like her lotr parallels are huge. In fact, maybe the duffers weren’t thinking about any of this and I’m overthinking. But anyway I just love Nancy.

Robin, “I cracked the code”

Robin gives me so so so many merry vibes. They are both even misinterpreted in the same way! People think merry is just haha dumb comedic relief, same with robin, but they are both super interesting characters!

Merry is so smart, like, genuinely, he knew about the ring (which Bilbo kept a secret to everyone but Frodo and Gandalf for YEARS AND YEARS) before anyone else, just by observing him. He’s the mastermind behind it all, he grabs pippin, Sam, and fatty and gets them to gather information about Frodo (who HE noticed was acting strange and might be about to leave the shire). He does all the planning to let them leave the shire as quickly and silently as they could. Merry focuses on the “speak friend and enter” part written above the doors of Moira. It is Gandalf who figures it out, but from the first second it’s merry who notices it above the rest of the text, and finds it weird. It’s thanks to merry pointing it out, that Gandalf begins thinking about it. Merry is super observant!! Just like Robin being the one to figure out music helps against Vecna, or cracking the Russian code or almost always being right.

Merry doesn’t want to be left behind in Rohan while his friends are fighting the war (steve and nancy going to the mothergate and leaving robin and Eddie alone on the boat) so he just sneaks with éowyn to the war even tho he’s super scared (robin diving right after nancy).

Strategy. Organized genius.

Rambling about the same topic for paragraphs. It’s literally canon that all that could be discovered about pipe-weed in antiquity was put together by him. Same with robin rambling. Both into “weird” things (like, robin knows several languages and is very into old films and old books and merry is into maps and boats, which hobbits aren’t usually interested in). Also both can be seen as neurodivergent (by those with eyes to see it). (Same with Frodo and Bilbo)

They have funny scenes, of course, but they have much more to them!

Erica, child soldier

I think erica might be similar pippin. “Erica would absolutely destroy pippin wdym” I mean yeah but think about it. This character who originally doesn’t really have much of a role and is just the family of one of our main characters (s2 Erica, pippin at the beginning of the fellowship) and who you could say is just there for laughs cause they’re funny, but who slowly gets a bigger role and becomes a member of the team and an important member too, helping to save the world. Also pippin is the youngest out of the fellowship, he’s not even an adult yet. Erica can amuse the viewer like pippin does (but in completely different ways, pippin by being “dumb” (again, he’s a literal teenager thrown into horrors he literally couldn’t imagine), erica by her amazing comebacks) but she’s also an important member of the team, just like pippin.

She’s not aware of the real danger until s4. I mean, in s3 she basically risked her life and her only condition was “free ice cream forever”. While stuck in the elevator, she says her mom will be mad at Steve and Robin for endangering her and making her miss her uncle’s birthday. It’s steve who brings her to reality, telling her that if they are killed in a Russian elevator, her mom wouldn’t find them anyway. Erica is taken aback by this, and for the first time, she’s beginning to see the actual danger.

She also has “dumb” funny moments that sound like something pippin could perfectly well say (like when she said they should drink the weird green liquid they found. Like obviously not erica wtf. Reminds me of movie!Pippin eating three lembas breads without even knowing what they were before eating them). But we also see later in the season her calculating maths in her head super fast and well, and Dustin lovingly calls her a nerd. We see that’s she’s smart! Pippin is also smart, people just don’t acknowledge it. Good pippin post.

Eddie, the hero

(Cute fanart of Eddie and Dustin as lotr characters)

Now, I’m not really into Eddie’s character, so if there are any more similarities that I’ve missed and a diehard fan noticed, please let me know. Eddie’s lotr parallels are so easy to see. Movie!Aragorn saying “for Frodo” and Eddie saying “this is for you, Chrissy” (which then puts Chrissy on Frodo’s position, Chrissy who got vecna’d. Mike/Chrissy parallels here, here, and here. Also Will/Chrissy parallels here).

Also the fact that all the characters paralleled to Frodo in one way or another (Chrissy, Max, Nancy, El) got vecna’d (about El, does mike’s monologue scene count as getting vecna’d? Even if not, she has scenes talking to him and such so I would add her aswell) makes me scared and excited for the other characters paralleled to Frodo (Will, Mike, and Dustin. Mike is so getting vecna’d, Will might already be in a trance by the end of s4, and Dustin is so getting vecna’d aswell).

Eddie saying “I say you’re asking me to follow you into Mordor, which, if I’m totally straight with you, I think is a really bad idea… but the shire, the shire is burning. So Mordor it is” vs Aragorn saying “I would have guided Frodo to Mordor and gone with him to the end” (or the movie version, “I would have gone with you to the end, into the very fires of Mordor”).

Eddie is also boromir. Boromir who died a hero, protecting pippin and merry (“the little ones”. While merry was an adult, pippin was a teenager, and they were technically more little (stature) than Boromir. Just like Dustin, max, Lucas etc being younger than Eddie, and him dying to save them [and all of Hawkins]). Also the scene with Dustin and Eddie playing/training in a field, parallel to the movie scenes with boromir playing/training with merry and pippin in a field. Which puts Dustin in their roles. I can see Dustin as merry, great plans, smart, scared, funny, definitely neurodivergent, etc. This is also tied to this other parallel. Théoden’s death scene.

(In the book, it is merry the one hearing Théoden’s last words and last seeing him alive, in the movie it’s changed to Éowyn. But not to worry, cause Dustin fits both of these roles).

On The Two Towers movie, there’s a scene with king Théoden crying because his son died. At the end of s4, when Dustin confirms to Wayne that Eddie died, he cries in a scene that is shot more or less the same way.

Théodred (Théoden’s son) died in battle, and lived only long enough to say his last words. Eddie died n battle, and lived only long enough to say his last words.

“I go to my fathers. And even in their mighty company I shall not now be ashamed.” (Théoden) vs “Boromir, you fought bravely. You have kept your honor.” (Aragorn @ Boromir) vs “I didn’t run away this time, right?” (Eddie)

Henry (001)

Also not necessarily into Henry’s character. I mean, the creels murders are super interesting (there’s def more that meets the eye) and so are the things we learn about him through NINA (which Brenner definitely manipulated. You cannot tell me Brenner is not making Henry look extra bad there. Which is not to say I defend him, but like c’mon Brenner would obviously do that), but I don’t know much about him aside from the obvious.

(When he found the mind flayer) “I found the most extraordinary thing of all. Something that would change everything. I saw a means to realize my potential.”

Remember this line, it’s important. Like, seriously.

Henry is gollum but he’s also sauron. The mind flayer is the one ring but it’s also Melkor (Morgoth).

Henry/Sauron created the one ring but Henry/Gollum is also consumed by it. The mind flayer/melkor is stronger that Henry/sauron, and existed before Henry/sauron, but the mind flayer/one ring was also created by Henry/sauron.

Woah, what a headache. Let’s go slowly.

Henry’s sauron-coding

Sauron’s original name was Mairon. Vecna’s original name was Henry.

“Mairon saw in Melkor the will and power that would help him achieve his personal ends quicker than if he pursued them alone.” So Henry finding the mind flayer?

Melkor is an Ainur, basically a god, an “eternal spirit”. Not the highest god (that’s Ilúvatar) but one of his “children” (listen the silmarillion is complicated ok). He turns evil unlike his siblings, destroys what they create, etc. And he has other beings that work for him and support his evil deeds, one of them being Sauron/Mairon.

I don’t think it is Henry who works for the mind flayer, I think he controls the mind flayer. However in the last shadow (correct me if wrong, I haven’t seen the play, just read summaries) it says that Henry was possessed with the mind flayer as a kid and that’s how he developed his powers (more on that later). So you could say Henry begins by “working” for the mind flayer (who, for example, made him kill animals) but then after arriving at dimension x as an adult, decided he could use the mind flayer for his own gain.

Sauron began by working for Melkor, and then time later, created the one ring. Henry begins possessed by the mind flayer, but years laters decides to mold him into something useful for him, a mean to realize “his potential”.

The mindflayer is the ring but also Melkor apparently. Duffers explain yourselves.

About sauron, he is also described as a sorcerer once (remember s5 ep4 “Sorcerer”) in the fellowship, and the number one is repeatedly mentioned regarding him. He created the one ring, he has been called the “black one”, the “one enemy”, the “nameless one”. Also “the shadow” (the first shadow)

Sauron also used to be blonde.

“Sauron's physical manifestation was destroyed in the ruin of Númenor. As a Maia, his spirit returned to Middle-earth, though he was no longer able to take the fair form he had once had.”

Henry’s gollum-coding

“One of Brenner's fellow scientists defected and stole key technology and transported it to a Nevadan cave. At this time, a very young Henry and the Creels lived nearby, in Rachel, Nevada. While exploring the Nevadan caves and playing with a spyglass, Henry stumbled across the stolen technology when it unexpectedly activated, transporting him and the defecting scientist to Dimension X.”

“In Dimension X, Henry was exposed to the influence of the shadowy entity. Though Henry returned home after 12 hours, he now possessed a unique blood type and had a changed personality. Brenner was later able to track Henry down thanks to Henry dropping his spyglass in the caves.”

Henry got possessed in a cave. Gollum lived on a cave, and Bilbo finds the ring (and steals it from gollum) on a cave. Technically bilbo-coding, for a tiny second.

“Henry stumbled across pieces of scientific equipment stolen from the Nevada Experiment. The equipment unexpectedly activated; Henry and the scientist who stole the equipment were temporarily transported to Dimension X, killing the scientist in the process.” Henry and someone else being there while the equipment activated, Gollum (Sméagol) and Déagol stumbling across the ring. Déagol stealing the ring, the scientist having been to one to steal the equipment. Déagol got almost inmediately murdered by Sméagol (for the ring). The equipment killed the scientist in the process. Sméagol ended up with the ring, Henry ended up possessed.

“I found the most extraordinary thing of all. Something that would change everything. I saw a means to realize my potential” is SO like if he just found the one ring. The ring tempts you, tells you that if you use it you will be powerful and will accomplish your desires, no matter if they are to save the world or destroy it. It says that it’ll give you the power to manage it, corrupts you, but it’s all a lie.

Henry has been fully corrupted, even his physical body changing (I mean, because of the burns but like, still a similarity) and cannot be saved. He’s gollum but he’s the ring (since the mind flayer is the ring, and he controls the mind flayer) at the same time, makes me a bit crazy.

The ring gave gollum, Bilbo, and Frodo the power to turn invisible. The mind flayer’s possession made Henry have powers, all the Will has powers theories…

Henry being 001 and the ring being the one ring is just so (x)

Also the many parallels between Will and Henry, how they’re so similar. Because Frodo and Gollum are extremely paralleled and similar!! Except Frodo fears becoming Gollum just like how Will fears becoming the abuser, the predator. But also Frodo having sympathy for Gollum cause he understands, + my theory of Will having a tiny bit of sympathy for Vecna in s5, cause he can literally feel what he feels, and he’ll probably get a Vecna vision like “oh Will we’re alike you and I join me blah blah blah make them pay and let’s get our vengeance blah blah blah”. Will won’t listen to him obviously that’s the difference between Gollum (who had no one) falling fully corrupted to the ring vs Frodo (who had Sam) only falling corrupted at the very end. Smth smth Will has a support system and doesn’t choose violence and all that.

Also

“Fëanor was possessed of exceptional oratory skill, and could persuade virtually anyone through speechcraft. He also was known to have been restless, exploring as much of Aman as he could and constantly crafting new works. One of these works was believed to have been the palantíri.”

“Fëanor quickly became the most prominent of the rebellious Ñoldor” (a group of elves)

“Despite Melkor having been the true root of the Ñoldor's unrest, Fëanor's crime had been of his own making, and for this the Valar exiled him for twelve years time from Tirion.”

Reminds me a bit of everything going on with Henry…

“Melkor stole away to Avathar in the south of Aman. There he discovered the evil spider-like creature Ungoliant and secured her as an ally, promising to sate her unrelenting hunger in return for her aid.”

Some things happened and they fought, and Ungoliant tried to strangle him. She didn’t get to, and after Balrogs came, had to run away. Some say she died from starvation. Maybe the mind flayer turning against Vecna in s5?

Thorin? I mean, Thorin sets to destroy Smaug, but ends up turning just like him because he’s affected by gold-sickness. Kinda like how Henry is super mad at Brenner and everyone and plans to “reshape” the world so that the “mindless play” stops (I think? I never really got his intentions), so like, technically in his head he probably thinks he’s doing good (??) but like, obviously he isn’t, he’s murdering teenagers and kids for no reason. Substitutes one villain for another.

Henry/Aragorn?? But we can see the contrast between both characters. I mean, Aragorn was on some kind of self-imposed exile, Henry was exiled from earth (El vanished him into dimension x), Aragorn became king (ruler) of Gondor, Henry became some kind of ruler of the upside down. Aragorn is good and noble and rightful heir, Henry is, well, evil.

I feel like Henry stans are gonna come yell at me I’m terrified

Hopper, who died and came back

Hopper is also a lot like Gandalf. Adult (male) who while technically is not a parent to any of the characters but he do is a paternal figure (him adopting el, him dating Joyce so becoming a kind of paternal figure to Jonathan and Will). I wouldn’t necessarily call Gandalf a paternal figure, but he do is this older “man” that the characters go to for help and who always helps the characters, and who has known Bilbo and Frodo since they were young (very basic description of Gandalf, I know). Also yknow Gandalf died but then came back, turns out he didn’t actually die. Hopper did the same. Gandalf “died” while saving the fellowship. Hopper “died” while saving everyone.

The scene of him meeting with el again in s4 is similar to Gandalf meeting with Frodo again in return of the king.

Bob Newby, superhero

Bob is played by Sean Astin, who played Sam in the lotr movies.

Bob Newby, superhero vs Samwise the stouthearted (or Samwise the brave in the movies)

I see him as Radagast tbh

“Radagast has a strong affinity for—and relationship with—wild animals.” You know what my first thought was? Lonnie (“he made me kill a rabbit”). Who’s basically Lonnie’s opposite? Bob. (Sure, Joyce could also be, having been the parent who stuck around and who loves her kids deeply and actually cares and isn’t abusive, but when talking about dads, it’s Bob. Could also be hopper, but I think radagast is Bob). I’ll explain.

“His role in Tolkien's writings is so slight that it has been described as a plot device.” Bob, I mean, he appears in just one season to kinda further the plot and then dies. He was also supposed to die in the third episode of s2, originally.

“Radagast was unwittingly used by Saruman to lure Gandalf to his tower of Orthanc, where Gandalf was captured”. Bob telling Will to fight the mind flayer and that causing Will to get possessed. “Fortuitously, Radagast also helped rescue him by sending Gwaihir the eagle to Orthanc with news of the movements of Sauron's forces.” Bob eventually saving Will and everyone.

“Radagast is "the friend of all birds and beasts,” Bob basically being the perfect stepdad, being super nice and caring. “He innocently helps Saruman to assemble "a great host of spies”, again, unknowingly and unwillingly causing Will to get possessed, which made Will the spy.

Mirkwood, (where Cornwallis and Kerley meet)

Oh boy talk to me about Mirkwood in stranger things.

Mirkwood is a real road, named by the party as “Mirkwood”. Mirkwood is a forest that appears in the hobbit, and from where Legolas (member of the fellowship of the ring in lotr) comes from (he’s the prince of Mirkwood). What’s interesting about Mirkwood regarding stranger things, you might ask. I ask a better question. What is not interesting about Mirkwood regarding stranger things.

That road is the road where Will was on when he was going home in s1, where he saw whatever it is that took him. “It is in close proximity to both the Byers house and the Harrington house, with only the forest separating them”, oh ok, not suspicious at all. Will got taken at his house (which is close to Mirkwood) and Barb got taken at Steve’s house (which is close to Mirkwood). Nothing to see here, just a normal ass road. Mirkwood is also where they found El, where Nancy found her tree gate (I think, not super sure on this one), where the police found Will’s bike, and also, oh right, it’s next to the lab. Can’t add a map here (curse tumblr’s image limit) but look it up. I think you can see it in ep1, right? Like when will is on his bike and passes a sign that says smth about the lab.

Next to Mirkwood are the woods, where castle byers is, and where lots of things happened over the series in general. The woods are pretty connected to the upside down, the gates are either in the woods or on places next to the woods, lots of characters spend time in the woods since they live next to them, for some reason, etc.

Before beginning to talk about Mirkwood (lotr), what do we know about the upside down (st)?

Well, we know it wasn’t always supposed to look like that, rather it’s original design was very green and even with light. Eventually the duffers decided for the upside down we know now. We also know that before it was the upside down, it was dimension x, a place WIDLY different to the upside down we know now. We know the upside down isn’t necessarily evil (as seen by dart, a creature from it who shows the difference between nature and nurture), that it’s just a neutral dimension, simply controlled by an evil man (but it hasn’t been like this always). Ok, now that that’s clear, what about Mirkwood (lotr)?

“The area had been called Greenwood the Great until around the year TA 1050, when the shadow of the Dark Lord Sauron fell upon it, and Men began to call it Mirkwood, or Taur-nu-Fuin and Taur-e. Ndaedelos in the Sindarin tongue. From then on, The southern part of Mirkwood became a haunted place inhabited by many dark and savage things. Sauron, or the 'Necromancer' as he disguised himself. established himself at the hill-fortress of Dol Guldur, an old Elven fortress in the forest's southern region, and drove Thranduil and his people ever northward.”

Oh okay, so the upside down is Mirkwood fr. Alright. There’s also the fact that Mirkwood is the home of the children of Ungoliant (aka, huge spiders that tried to eat thorin’s company) and we know everything going on with spiders and Vecna and the mind flayer etc.

Also this s5 theory, probably my favorite theory ever.

Suspicious Minds, (Terry and Andrew)

Suspicious Minds is a half-canon book (some say it’s canon, others that it isn’t), focusing on Terry (Jane’s mom) and her time at the lab. Andrew Rich is her boyfriend at the time, and father of Jane.

I really need to reread Suspicious Minds if I’m gonna talk about it cause I read it back in 2019 during summer holidays and barely remember anything. However you know what I found out? The many lotr references in the book. It was like a wonderful lake appeared in front of my while I was at the desert. Couldn’t believe my eyes. Oh duffers why me.

Andrew was a big lotr fan and, like any nerd, forced Terry into reading the books. Let’s get to it. Some of the lotr references in the book:

“Andrew had fallen in love with The Lord of the Rings on the van ride to New York and back, and then presented her with his battered copy of the first book when he returned. The cover featured a wizard in flowing yellow robes with a long white beard on a mountaintop”. A wizard with yellow robes. William Byers what are you doing here??

-

"It would've been a lot easier for the hobbits to stay in the Shire," she told him when he opened the door. "But they don't, do they? Frodo ends up with the ring and they leave with it."

"I knew you'd like it," he said, beaming at her and dropping a kiss on her cheek. "Let me know when you're ready for the next one. Where are you?"

"Still early. The hobbits may be the ones without magic, but I can feel how it's going.”

"You can skip the Tom Bombadil/Goldberry section if you want. It's a little much.”

"Now there's no way I'm skipping it." She paused. "But did you just admit this book isn't perfect in every way?"

And what’s funnier and insane is that they are Sam and Frodo shippers. They constantly compare themselves to Sam and Frodo. They are dating. They are a heterosexual couple who saw 2 gay hobbits and went: “they’re just like us fr”. Honestly, stan.

“Terry had bare feet with brown fur glued on, and wore rolled-up trousers and an old shirt. Her hair was arranged in tight curls, pulled aside to reveal pointy wax ears.

"Who are you supposed to be?" Alice asked, puzzled.

Andrew slid up to Terry's side, good looks muted only slightly by his own ridiculous curls and similar costume. He had fur glued to the top of his hand.

"She's Frodo, and I'm Samwise Gamgee. From my favorite books. I let Terry pick, and she made me the sidekick. But I don't mind being her sidekick.”

Terry shrugged. "I like Sam."

"And I like Frodo. Let me get you a drink."

-

"Don't do that," Andrew said, sitting up against the headboard. "Sometimes even Frodo and Sam have to have tough conversations.”

-

“I want you to live your life while I'm gone—think of me sometimes. I'll be dreaming of you and settling down in the Shire. No Grey Havens for us.”

UGHHH

Specially the last paragraph. It’s from a postcard Andrew sent Terry.

I cannot tell you ANYTHING about their relationship, again, desperately need to reread.

However Sam and Frodo are depicted as a romantic relationship. They are compared to a canon romantic relationship. Literally. Not by parallels like lumax, no, genuinely, literally, explicitly compared.

While there are characters who are compared to Sam and Frodo during some moments (Dustin and mike over dart, Nancy seeing the future vision of mike) and who’s relationship is definitely not romantic, it’s interesting to see how two canon couples have been compared to them. And then we have byler, who while not canon yet parallel both their relationship and the characters separately more than any other characters do…

That last paragraph? The postcard? When I read it I didn’t understand if he was saying “I’ll be dreaming of you while I settle down in the shire” or “I’ll be dreaming of you and of settling down in the shire (with you)” so I went to my copy, which is the spanish translation, and it’s the second one. Sam and Frodo settling down in the shire together… no mention of Rosie… No grey havens for us… All that combined with the duffers love for trope subversion and making things not be how they seem and so on, they are basically saying that Sam and Frodo have a happy ending together in the shire in stranger things (which basically tells us lumax endgame and byler endgame).

+ (some extra stuff)

“The transformation of the Shire from rural idyll to industrial wasteland heavily parallels Tolkien's own views of the destruction of the English countryside by the steady creep of industrialisation” + Smaug (the dragon they are set to kill in the hobbit) has lots and lots of money for the sake of having money. Doesn’t spend it, just hoards it because he’s greedy + Thorin dealing with gold-sickness, aka, wanting hoard as all the gold he took from Smaug, and not spend it or share it (just like Smaug did, so he sets to destroy Smaug just to turn just like him) (Smth smth, the mind flayer as capitalism)

-

Quoting Eddie, the shire is burning. The upside down arrived at Hawkins. At first, the upside down and the supernatural was located in the lab and in the upside down. It didn’t touch Hawkins. Except now it did, and things get dirty, the scourning of the shire, the shire is burning. So Mordor it is. Also, birthdaygate. March 22, Will’s birthday. Yknow what else is March 22? The day Sam and Frodo left the road and headed towards mount doom.

-

Also Nell Fisher who will play Holly in s5 acted alongside Elijah Wood (Frodo’s actor) in a movie (bookworm). (This is a complete coincidence, I know, but wanted to mention it)

-

Frodo’s birthday (and Bilbo’s) is also the 22th. 22th of September, not March, but the 22th. Also there’s 7 months between March and September (March - April - May - June - July - August - September) and (September- October- November - December- January - February- March). It was a seven.

-

Soteria is paralleled to the one ring, which is strange because soteria inhibits powers, while the ring gives you powers (hobbits turns invisible, extended lifespan, etc). Henry also said that soteria tracks your movements, and if he was right about that, it’s a similarity with the one ring, which when put on, allowed sauron to know someone had it.

-

The one ring was a physical object, you could put it on, touch it, destroy it. The mind flayer is not a physical object, and Vecna is a person (?). Not so easy to destroy. You could destroy the one ring by throwing it into the fire of Mordor, and you could take the mind flayer out of Will with heat (he likes it cold). So, can you kill the mind flayer by burning it? Following this thought pattern, yes.

At the end of s4 Nancy and robin burned Vecna and it probably hurt but he’s not dead. So either it doesn’t work or they need a much bigger fire. Well, not all fire worked with the one ring, it had to be the fire of Mordor. Now the question is, what is Mordor in stranger things? Because the upside down is Mirkwood. Maybe vecna’s weird red dimension (like where max was during the running up that hill sequence). Is that the upside down too or is it different? It looks different, cause it’s mental. The upside down is somewhere you can physically enter and leave, vecna’s red dimension is mental. Maybe Vecna/the mind flayer whatever can only be burned there. Or maybe the upside down is both Mirkwood and Mordor.

Idk it’s all so confusing. All I know is that a certain someone who has already cast fireball twice on dnd might be “the cure”…

-

-

If you made it here you deserve an applause cause DAMN this got long.

-

Conclusion:

The duffers are sam/frodo shippers. They’re also insane and I desperately need to hear them info dump

[murdermortician]

Words about Sarah Reid!

Sarah Reid has always been a very interesting side character to me. She's not on screen for very long but if you pay attention, you can see and understand small things about her. For example, she was quick to stand up to Alex after he started yelling at Tim, she tends to forget her lines easily, and when you look at her up close she definitely looks like she enjoys some color. It might just be me but I think she deserves more characterization in the community and I am aiming to explain my small characterization of her in this post. More below the cut and be aware of spoilers for Marble Hornets in some parts! This is primarily my view of her as a character rather than as canon information.

Reference/Design

Personality

Sarah is a very outgoing woman. She's very determined to have equality, fair opportunity, and she believes in doing the right thing. She can be stubborn with her beliefs and she can be a little forgetful when it comes to small details, but she really tries to be better. She also tries to have other people be better by pointing out when they need to be and she's not quiet about it. Sarah is very loud about her advocacy and her opinions but only because she's educated in them and she knows a lot. She often chooses peaceful ways out but she won't be quiet if she doesn't want to!

Work + Hobbies

Sarah likes to run. She's always been on the track and field team throughout high school and she's definitely not stopped just because of college! She often makes income by pet-sitting. She offers weeks of pet-sitting for vacations, daily, or even just for a few hours. She also babysits and offers multiple-day sittings. Since she lives with her mom off campus, she's able to afford her own living essentials with that money and the money she gets from working on set with Alex.

How she got on set and her experiences

Sarah has always been interested in acting and theatre, it was just never a career she thought she could pursue. When Seth suggested she try out, she did and got a semi-main part in Alex Kralie's Marble Hornets. Even if it was merely a student film, it was still an opportunity and she took it fairly quickly. At first, it was great. She liked the crew, she liked Alex, and the story was very easy to follow. Soon, however, she'd begin to feel ill and unwilling to go to set. It wasn't because she grew bored or that she disliked it, it was that being there always ended with a fight or someone nearly throwing up. The set was like poison and soon, Alex made things worse with his very inconsistant moods.

Relationships

Her relationships with each of the crew members vary. Seth had been her friend long before the whole thing so they were close and she often confided in him about the issues. She and Brian got along pretty well. They'd often joke around and get along during filming.

Sarah and Jay hardly ever spoke unless it was to talk about the script.

Sarah and Alex were not on the best terms near the end of the whole ordeal and honestly, he was a huge factor in her dwindling mental health and self-image.

Sarah and Tim had a very close relationship. Tim was very protective of her during filming when Alex yelled or got angry. He was not afraid to call Alex out or break some rules to help her out and in return, she usually helped him out as well. They had matching necklaces and the crew joked about them dating.

In the End

The tapes depict Sarah and Seth dying in an abandoned building early on. Alex seems to shoot them and leave them for The Operator, but that is not what became of Sarah in this story. Sarah, wounded and afraid, found her way out. Much like Tim, she regained enough strength to get out of the building and run away. Now, years later, she's living with Jessica and wonders if Tim is okay.

[crownedwille]

.

[panharmonium]

Hi! I love your Naruto thoughts and meta posts with all my heart and I want to ask your thoughts on something that has been on my mind literally since I was 13: what do you think about the relationship between Sasuke and Sakura? I went from being a hardcore shipper when I was a teenager, to being against any romantic relationship in Naruto after finishing the anime when I was in my early twenties. Nowadays I'm very into platonic love and depictions of friendship and I think the anime's obsession with forcing the "romantic interest" curse upon the main female character robbed us of... so much. There are a few wonderful moments in the anime where Sasuke and Sakura acknowledge each other, but because she's always "the girl with the crush", her actions are so often interpret as irrational or selfish by the fandom.

Hi @riemmetric!  It's great to talk to you again! Sorry it's taken me so long to answer this; RL has been making demands of me lately and it took me way longer to finish writing this up than I wanted it to (then again, I knew from the minute I read your original ask that my reply was going to get long, so I suppose I should have predicted a delay XD)

It's funny, my sister once asked me to choose between Sasuke or Sakura for an “unpopular opinion” meme, and I ended up doing Sasuke solely because I think the negative fandom opinions about Sakura are so unhinged and divorced from the actual text that I wouldn’t even know where to start.  People are entitled to dislike whatever characters they want, obviously, but there are some fandom takes that are, for me, so obviously rooted in bad faith viewings/readings that there’s no urge in me to discuss them.  That said, since you asked, I’m happy to go into my own thoughts on this a bit, with the disclaimer for other potential readers that I only write about fandom things for my own personal enjoyment, not as a contribution to The Discourse. If you don’t like Sakura, great!  I have no interest in changing your mind. Please consider this a sincere invitation to scroll on by and go enjoy whatever parts of the fandom appeal to you.

In general terms: I love Sasuke and Sakura’s relationship as much as I love all of the relationships in Team 7.  If we’re talking about them specifically as a romantic couple, then I probably fall somewhere in the middle of the spectrum, because I do like them together in a post-canon (to be clear: non-Boruto) setting, after time has passed and they’ve continued to develop individually and reconnect with each other, but I also wouldn’t exactly call myself an intense “shipper,” in the sense that I have no interest in pulling things out from the text and incorrectly citing them as evidence that Sasuke has hidden romantic feelings for her during the canon period. He cares about her in the canon period, just like he cares about Naruto and Kakashi.  That’s not up for interpretation; it’s the text.  But Sasuke during the canon time period does not demonstrate specifically romantic interest in anyone.  

[A note before people who might ship Sasuke with Someone Else emerge to rail against this statement - please just scroll past and continue enjoying fandom in whatever way is most fun for you. It is cool to ship whatever fanon thing you want; I think that’s great!  But earnestly citing any loving or emotional thing Sasuke does re: various characters in this story (yes, Sakura included) as indicative of specifically romantic love isn’t supported by the text. I know there are always going to be enormous subsets of any fandom who insist that it is, and I'm certainly not going to barge into anyone else's space to complain about that (because other people having fun together is harmless and none of my business), but I'm not obligated to indulge it on my own blog, either.]

Anyway, that said - the reason why I love Sakura and Sasuke’s relationship (from here on out I’ll use “relationship” in a general, non-romantic sense) is precisely because Sakura isn’t just “the girl with the crush.” Sakura has an arc when it comes to Sasuke, and its trajectory moves in the exact opposite direction of “irrational” or “selfish.”  She specifically goes from “the girl with the crush” to “the girl who steels herself and tries to put her personal feelings for Sasuke aside for the greater good” to “the girl who knows she can’t put her feelings aside, but who also knows full well that Sasuke doesn’t reciprocate them, and who still wants to save him regardless, because he matters to her as a person and a friend.”

[I'm putting the rest of this under a cut to save everyone's dash, and also to emphasize once again that this is a personal post on my personal blog which I wrote in response to a question from a personal acquaintance, the full content of which no one is obligated to read. I am not sending this post to random strangers and forcing them to look at it. I'm not even putting it in the character tags. I'm typing it up on my own blog and putting it under a cut. If you already know that you don't like Sakura, but you still click the link/read the post and then feel an urge to comment and complain, I am going to copy-paste this disclaimer and remind you that I specifically recommended that you scroll past and go have fun with fandom in your own way. Thanks in advance for responsibly curating your own fandom experience!]

So, from the top:

1. the girl with the crush

Sakura is, obviously, completely obsessed with Sasuke at the beginning of Part 1.  She’s also deeply clueless about him and his history (bizarre though it is, the story seems to indicate that she initially doesn’t know what happened with his family, the same way young!Obito is initially clueless about Kakashi’s father).  But what I like about Sakura and Sasuke’s Part 1 relationship is how this changes over time.

The critical scene that kicks this off happens right at the beginning of the manga, when she and Sasuke are talking by that bench - she complains about Naruto and blames his behavior on him being all alone/having no family to scold him; and even says she’s jealous that he doesn’t have parents to nag him all the time.  This obviously triggers an outburst from Sasuke, who tells her she has no idea what loneliness means and that she “makes him sick”/she’s “annoying” (importantly, the exact same thing Sakura said to Naruto in anger earlier that day), which in turn prompts Sakura to reassess herself and wonder whether she’s been making Naruto feel this terrible all the time, too:

From that point on, it’s a process of her putting little pieces together.  She still has a MAJOR crush, and she still acts like a twelve year-old, but as we approach the end of Part I, Sakura actually has a more accurate grasp on Sasuke’s current state of mind than Naruto does.  Naruto is initially excited to fight Sasuke on top of the hospital, because he feels like Sasuke’s finally acknowledging him, whereas Sakura is the one who immediately recognizes that something is wrong about this situation.  She is also the one who, after this fight, is concerned that Sasuke is really unwell and might do something drastic like run off in pursuit of the power Orochimaru promised him, but when she communicates this to Naruto, he assures her that this would NEVER happen:

(Sakura isn't convinced, though, because she goes to monitor the exit out of the village anyway.)

I’m not criticizing Naruto for his response here.  I ADORE hearing him say that Sasuke is too strong to need Orochimaru, with such perfect confidence - I love seeing how much respect and admiration he has for Sasuke underneath all their fighting, because that’s the whole reason he’s always baiting Sasuke and yelling at him and claiming “you're not so great!” He looks up to Sasuke; he wants to be like Sasuke; he thinks Sasuke is awesome! (It’s that Obito @ Kakashi behavior, you know?) But the fact remains that he is clueless about what’s actually going on with Sasuke in Part 1, and he remains clueless(ly optimistic) for a long time.  

(Eg, when he catches up to Sasuke during the retrieval arc and Sasuke climbs out of that cursed seal coffin, Naruto waves at him and calls "Come on, let's go!" as if Sasuke has been successfully rescued and is now going to come running home.  Even in Part II, when Naruto hears that Sasuke killed Orochimaru, he beams and immediately says, “So he must be on his way back to the Leaf Village!”  And everyone else in the room is like, “....,” because they know better.  Naruto doesn’t yet fully understand [or doesn't want to accept] the extent to which Sasuke has willingly chosen this path, and it’s not until after Jiraiya’s death/the Pain attack/the Five Kage Summit that Naruto really starts to understand Sasuke more clearly, which is something he himself admits.)

Sakura, in Part 1, has access to more information about Sasuke - she’s there for his first dissociative monologue during the bells test, she’s there for the curse mark’s placement, she’s there for his first violent transformation in the Forest of Death - she is, in fact, the unwitting catalyst for it (“Sakura…who did this to you?”), and her compassion is the reason Sasuke is later able to overcome the curse mark’s influence - so she has a more accurate/complete picture of “how he’s doing,” for lack of a better phrase, whereas Naruto, who doesn’t know about the curse mark in the first place, is still in the dark.  This means that Sakura is able to accurately discern that Sasuke is struggling more than Naruto realizes, and specifically to predict that he’s going to run away.  

(This dynamic is then interestingly flipped in the back half of Part II, since at any point after the Five Kage Summit, Sakura doesn’t have access to extremely relevant [if currently questionable and unproven] details that would in any other circumstance inform her behavior).

Of course, just because she has more info in Part 1 doesn’t mean she has some kind of miraculous insight into Sasuke’s every thought and feeling.  There are parts of her attempt to convince Sasuke to stay in the village that are as clueless as any of Naruto’s assumptions, and they showcase the kind of magical thinking common to childhood - like when she says that if he stayed with her, she could give him happiness, she’d do anything for him, even help him get his revenge - this idea that she herself can do something to make him feel better, that she can love him powerfully enough to defeat his pain - obviously none of that is rooted in realism.

Is this part of her approach irrational and immature and inadvertently self-centered?  Of course it is!  But it’s no more irrational and immature and inadvertently self-centered than Naruto’s stated plan to drag Sasuke back to the village even if he has to “break every bone in [his] body!” 

Hating on Sakura for her Part 1 attempt to convince Sasuke to stay in the village while simultaneously lauding Naruto for his feels like a bad faith misread of what is, to me, pretty clear narrative intention.  The story doesn’t at any point intend for us to see her begging him to stay as a selfish or conniving attempt to get something she wants.  She’s begging him to stay for the same underlying reason that Naruto is: she cares about him.  She thinks he’s making a mistake that will only cause him more pain in the end (she’s right) and she wants to make it so he feels less pain right now (she can’t.  But she doesn’t understand that/isn’t able to admit that, and she’s willing to try ANYTHING that might help).  

It’s critical that this farewell scene is set in front of that same bench from their first important confrontation - she references that day and how angry he got at her, and this time she tells him that she understands his reaction.  She’s learned things and she recognizes how insensitive she was being back then (“I know what happened to your clan, Sasuke”), even though she still can’t fully grasp all the complexities of the situation. She tells him that him blowing up at her back then helped her understand what loneliness actually meant (as opposed to her previous shallow understanding of it), and she challenges him about his choice right now: "So that's it, you're choosing the lonely path?" And when she tells him that she'll be very lonely if he leaves, we're immediately shown a panel of Sasuke thinking of both his friends, with the very clear implication that if he goes through with this, he will be lonely without them, too - that he's still struggling with the idea of leaving them, no matter how hard he tries to pretend:

Sakura at this point knows that Sasuke isn’t interested in her the way she is in him, but she still wants to give him happiness, however fantastical and immature her ideas sound to us (and, I’m sure, to him).  “I’ll do anything, even help you get your revenge/we'll have fun every day, and...and you'll be happy! I'll make sure of it!” - of course, it’s completely childish.  It’s irrational.  It’s ridiculous to think that any of this would ever be effective, but no more ridiculous than Naruto’s belief that he can simply break every bone in Sasuke’s body and keep him in the Leaf by force.

Both Naruto and Sakura are children who have a deeply oversimplified understanding of Sasuke’s situation.  They both still think they can fix him themselves.  They both think they can save him themselves.  They both think they can convince (or force) him to do what they want, what they think is in his best interests.  Both of them don’t yet understand that he has to want to come back, if it’s ever going to mean anything.  Their attempts to keep him in the village are immature and unrealistic, yes.  What they aren’t, however, is selfish, because neither Sakura nor Naruto are doing any of this with the intention of advancing their own interests.  They’re only thinking about Sasuke - how to keep Sasuke safe, how to make Sasuke happy - even when neither of them are taking an approach that will actually work.

Naruto and Sakura are children.  They’re afraid of losing somebody they care about.  Their attempts to prevent that from happening are desperate and messy and ultimately ineffective, but they are also genuinely felt and rooted in a true desire to rescue Sasuke from his pain, which - and this is the single most important thing that should impact our viewing of Part 1 - is something that Sasuke RECOGNIZES.  He doesn’t spend that agonizingly long moment bowed over Naruto’s defeated body so we can pretend he doesn’t understand that Naruto was just trying to help him.  He doesn’t take the time to murmur, “Sakura…thank you,” before laying her out carefully on a bench, just so we can discount it and pretend that he doesn’t recognize and appreciate her genuine intention to make things better for him, however clumsy that attempt might have been.

2. the greater good

If Stage 1 Sakura is "the girl with the crush," then Stage 2 Sakura is a progression to “the girl who decides to put her feelings for Sasuke aside in order to protect innocent people, including (but certainly not limited to) Naruto.”  She’s driven to this decision by interactions with Shikamaru, who all too recently had to grow up fast himself (“We're not kids anymore...we can't allow a war to break out between the Hidden Leaf and the Hidden Cloud because of Sasuke") and Sai, who risks his new friendship with Sakura and Team 7 in order to speak some hard truths and deliver one of my favorite lines in the whole story: “I don’t know what promise Naruto made to you, but it’s really no different than what was done to me.  It’s like a curse mark.”

(INCREDIBLE.  How can anybody be complaining about a season where Sai gets to say something that goes THIS HARD and Sakura LISTENS and takes DRAMATIC ACTION that actually propels the story forward in a meaningful way - )

[Okay, yeah, brief personal opinion interlude - it is just bonkers wild to me that there are people who complain about Sakura in the Five Kage Summit arc. That entire season is the greatest character arc she ever has.  Literally she has never been more interesting and dynamic than in Season 10; it’s the first time she ever gets to be as deep and fascinating as the boys; what is everybody so worked up about?  Oh, “she lied to Naruto that one time” - Sasuke joined infant-kidnapping baby-murdering human experimentation machine Orochimaru when he was twelve years old in order to (dare I say it????) selfishly pursue his personal goals and yet, somehow, we are still able to root for him.  He abandoned his friends/allies to imprisonment and death (Suigetsu and Jūgo) or outright stabbed them in the chest himself (Karin) in order to (SELFISHLY) get what he wanted, and yet, somehow, we are still able to love him, understand him, and be on his side.  Naruto is canonically not upset with Sakura about her lie after receiving context for the situation and I think we can probably take our cues from him without feeling the need to bring her up on war crimes; please calm down]

[Sorry, I just really love most of Season 10 and think it’s one of the best examples of how good this story can be when every single character gets to do something that matters (as opposed to things being all Naruto, all the time) so I get a little bit worked up over people complaining about some of the best writing Sakura ever gets.  I don’t understand what certain elements of fandom want from her. People complain about her being “useless” and not doing anything that contributes to the story, but then they complain just as much when she does finally get to act decisively and have just as complex/dynamic an inner world as the boys.  She’s “weak” for being unreasonably in love with Sasuke, but when she tries to be “strong” and put her love for him aside and eliminate him in order to protect Naruto and the rest of the world, she’s evil, because she should have been more understanding of his situation (despite the fact that she doesn’t KNOW anything about his situation).  But then when she can’t go through with killing him after all because she cares about him too much despite the things he’s done, she’s not "compassionate" or "kind" or "a good friend," she’s “weak” again. Nothing Sakura does in S10 is more wrongheaded or rash than any of the batshit, buckwild things Naruto and Sasuke have done in the past (and will continue to do in the future), but when Naruto and Sasuke have big feelings or take bold action, it makes them interesting characters, whereas Sakura can’t breathe in anyone’s direction without being minutely scrutinized for moral impurities.]  

Anyway. Back to a more measured response.  

Every single piece of development Sakura has with regard to Sasuke in this season satisfies me so much.  Her initial shock and disbelief at hearing that Sasuke had joined the Akatsuki?  Good, appropriate.  The fact that she starts to acknowledge the reality of what Sasuke’s done sooner than Naruto does?  Also extremely appropriate, very in-character for both of them.  Her taking Sai’s words to heart and deciding that the promise she asked Naruto to make when they were children is causing him to suffer and she has to relieve him of that burden?  Juicy!  AND thematically significant (promises!!!!  the burden that a promise places on a person, especially when it can't be kept - we've seen that before in this story and we'll see it again).  Her anguished pivot from wanting to protect Sasuke to realizing that she has a responsibility to protect the countless innocents who will die because of the war he’s trying to start?  HELLO THIS IS INCREDIBLE CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT.  Her knocking out the classmates who agreed to help her so they don’t have to share in her burden (and so the only person Naruto will hate when it’s over is her)?  BRUH.  Her being so committed and focused on her goal of saving innocents and protecting Naruto (not just from being harmed by Sasuke/the Akatsuki, but by the possibility that Naruto will someday have to hurt Sasuke himself) that she tries to take everything on by herself and walks into a confrontation that she absolutely cannot win??  INCREDIBLE.  (Literally the first time I watched this, I said, “Finally!!!  It’s Sakura’s turn to go off the rails!”  I laughed with my sister about how Kakashi isn’t even mad, because Naruto and Sasuke have been pulling stunts like this for years and Sakura was way overdue for her own meltdown.)  And then, after Kakashi intervenes in the fight - Sakura barreling back into the battle when she realizes he’s going to take on the burden of killing Sasuke himself in order to spare her and Naruto the horror - “I can’t let Kakashi-sensei bear this burden!”  I love her for that.  

And then, of course, in the end - her not being able to do hurt Sasuke after all.  Despite committing herself to the act, despite forcing herself to put her feelings for him aside, despite resolving to stop him from starting a war and killing innocent people, she can’t harm him.  She cares about him too much.  This, too, is thematically significant - think about Itachi’s “you don’t have enough hatred” - she doesn’t have enough hatred to kill someone she cares about, even if it seems like he deserves it, even if would be the right thing to do to protect others.  She can’t do it, and Sasuke almost kills her for her compassion.  

I love the dynamic this sets up between her and Sasuke, for a few reasons:

1) Personally, I think Sasuke respects Sakura much more for trying to kill him than he would have if she’d just tried to talk him out of his behavior or beg him to come home (a la their original confrontation in Part 1).  This is the first significant interaction he’s had with Sakura in years, and the fact that she does something SO contrary to his memory of her is an important demonstration of the fact that she’s not the same girl she used to be.  Sasuke spends a lot of time after his defection declaring to his old team “I’ve changed; I’m not that person anymore,” but this is one of the moments where he’s forced to acknowledge that his teammates have changed, too.  Time didn’t just stop for them when he left.  While he was turning into someone new, so were they.  They grew up without him, and his old memories of them can’t encompass the whole picture of who they are now.  

(This is a little tangential, but in general, I love the spectrum of reactions that Naruto, Sakura, and Kakashi have in this sequence, and the way that all of them are ultimately messages Sasuke needs to hear.  Sasuke - who we know textually regrets what he did here, who apologizes to Sakura for it later - for “everything,” in fact - needs Naruto’s aggressively optimistic open-arms policy, yes, needs that potential, that unconditional possibility of return.  He also needs Sakura’s refusal to let him hurt her friends and start a war that will kill thousands of people, needs her surprisingly ruthless attempt to take him down; needs just as much her failure to do so, because it shows him that she still loves him too much to kill him even as she condemns him.  And he needs Kakashi’s grim line in the sand, needs someone who very possibly won't hesitate like Sakura (despite the horrifying personal cost), someone who will try to reach him but also won't let him escape and become the next generation’s Orochimaru, who won't let him cause untold suffering to untold numbers of people just because a teacher loved him too much to stop him when he had the chance. 

(And then even Kakashi chooses not to deliver a killing blow when he has the opportunity -)

(I know that in fandom people are more likely to be all, “oh, Naruto Good, everybody else Bad,” but I don’t think the narrative frames Sakura or Kakashi as “worse” than Naruto in any way.  The story goes out of its way to make it clear how desperately they don’t want to hurt Sasuke and how much they care about him.  And [this is just my interpretation, so obviously I won’t claim it as fact], I personally think that Sasuke - Sasuke, who, looking back, can see how lost he was then and how tortured he would have been if he’d gone through with many of his plans - would be grateful to Sakura and Kakashi for making an attempt to stop him when he couldn’t stop himself.)

2) On the other side of this, the fact that Sakura wasn’t able to deliver the killing blow means a lot. Sasuke was incapacitated under that bridge; he was completely at her mercy - but she stopped with the kunai an inch from his back.  She couldn’t kill him, even though she knew that he was completely willing to kill her (because he'd attempted to Chidori-assassinate her from behind just a few minutes ago).  That’s huge!  Sasuke is too out of his head right now to process this or understand it, but later, it's going to matter.  She stayed her hand.  She spared his life.  She loved him too much to hurt him, even when he’d given her every reason to take him down.  She hesitated, and he almost killed her for it, but her inability to strike him ultimately gave him yet another chance to come home, another chance to get better, another chance to have a life outside of his pain.  Despite everything, some part of her still hadn’t really given up on him, and that knowledge will matter later, when he’s finally able to acknowledge it.  

The point of all this is to say that I really have no complaints about Sakura and Sasuke’s dynamic in their S10 confrontation.  This season is the point where Sakura fully grows past her “girl with a crush” stage and into her “shinobi must make very harsh decisions” adulthood, but it never means that she doesn’t care about the person she’s trying to take down.  Her ultimate inability to deliver the killing blow remains a dangling lifeline for her relationship with Sasuke, an open door that Sasuke is able to walk through at the end of the story (literally, in fact, when Sakura opens that portal for him and saves him from Kaguya’s desert prison, and figuratively, too, when Sasuke apologizes to her).

3. she only wants to save you

The last stage in their relationship is what Sakura settles into during the war arc.  She started off Part 1 being just a girl with a crush, then tried to harden her heart and put her feelings for Sasuke aside in service of the greater good, but she was unable to actually follow through and kill him, and because of that, what she’s come to accept by the war arc is actually two things: that 1) Sasuke truly is willing to let her die if it furthers his goals, and 2) she wants to save him anyway.  

She has no intention of pursuing Sasuke romantically.  She knows full well that Sasuke isn’t interested in her.  She even knows that Sasuke isn’t really on their side (there’s a great scene where Sai questions Sakura about Sasuke’s return, and she reassures him that everything is fine, and Sai sadly thinks to himself “even I can tell your smile is fake”).  She’s well-aware that Sasuke didn’t try to help her when Madara stabbed her.  She’s well-aware that he left her to die in the lava pit.  She’s also well-aware that none of this is enough to make her stop loving him.  He doesn’t have to care about her - she still cares about him.  She still wants to help him.  She still wants to save him.

This is not hidden, hard-to-parse character development.  It’s explicitly articulated on the page:

Sakura’s not trying or wanting to make you hers!  She only wants to save you.

I’m not sure if people look at this last confrontation and unquestioningly take Sasuke at his word (as if we haven’t just read 71 volumes/watched 700 episodes showing us how how painfully distorted his thinking is), or if they stop reading/watching before the end of the scene, or if they don’t understand that Sasuke saying something doesn’t make that statement an accurate representation of reality.  The entire point of this scene is to show us how deeply mistaken Sasuke is about Sakura (and, by extension, the rest of Team 7).  He’s locked into a false pattern of thinking.  His single-minded focus on revenge and destruction has blinded him to the unconditional love his friends feel for him; he’s become so accustomed to using others and being used that he can’t understand or accept that someone would care about him without needing a reason, without needing him to love them back, without needing to receive something from him in exchange.

Sakura’s not trying or wanting to make you hers!  She only wants to save you.

Sasuke matters to Sakura as more than a love interest.  He always has.  She does love him romantically, yes, but she doesn’t only love him romantically, and her desire to help him is not and has never been contingent on him returning her feelings, romantically or otherwise.  Sasuke isn’t able to acknowledge that in this scene, but that doesn’t mean we’re supposed to just sit back and agree with his warped perspective.  Kakashi is the one who’s explicitly positioned as the voice of the narrative here.  We, as the audience, are supposed to recognize that Kakashi is the one telling us the truth.

[tangential thing 1: You don’t have to love Sakura's last plea to Sasuke here. It’s not my favorite, either - the best part, other than Kakashi’s speech at the end, is the moment after Kakashi collapses when Sakura’s expression changes from pained uncertainty to pure rage, when she grits her teeth together - when I first saw that, I almost leapt out of my seat like “Oh my god.  She’s finally going to let him have it.  It’s finally happening - ”  I wanted that so badly, and I still think it would have been a more effective writing choice for Sakura’s last words to lean more into her anger at the suffering Sasuke is causing all of them (himself included!) and less into yet another of Kishimoto’s “let me have Sakura articulate what a shame it is that she can’t do as much as Naruto despite the fact that I literally just went through a major reveal sequence in the war to show that she’s caught up to the boys; I can’t make up my mind about whether I want her to progress or not” - it’s extremely frustrating (and it's something he does at the very end of the S10 Team 7 reunion, too, which is the ONLY moment of S10 that falls flat for me).  But at the same time, even if there are ways this sequence could be more satisfying, it doesn’t change the fact that her plea to him is not remotely motivated by a desire to be with him romantically and not anything to condemn her for.]

[tangential thing 2: I do like how she remembers that moment when Sasuke says “Thank you.”  That panel precedes her saying “If there’s even a tiny corner of your heart that thinks about me…” (which I’m sure is one of the things that people like to criticize about this scene, aka “oh she’s sooooo self-centered” etc), but that particular line of dialogue is preceded by that particular flashback panel for a reason: Sakura knows that Sasuke DOES think about her.  He thinks about all of them.  Sakura remembers that “thank you,” and it reminds her that despite everything Sasuke has done and said since, despite all evidence to the contrary, she knows in her bones that his expression of gratitude back then was genuine.  He cared about her once.  He cared about all of them.  She’s trying to reach the part of him that still does, if it exists.]

[tangential thing 3: The fact that Kakashi says “she suffers from loving you,” and it triggers Sasuke to remember his own family - thinking about how much he suffered (and still suffers) from loving them - “Perhaps…those are the ties to a failed past” - the idea that it’s not worth it to have bonds if it means you suffer this much…that it’s too difficult, it’s too painful, and if Sakura and the rest of Team 7 were smarter they would just give it up (all Sasuke knows how to do now is sever potential bonds before they can hurt him; so why aren’t Sakura and the rest of his teammates doing that, why can’t they let it go, why are they making this so hard - ) << yeah, he clearly doesn't care about her/them at all.]

4. the shadow of my family

This has all been a really long way to answer the original question, but the short response to “What do you think about the relationship between Sasuke and Sakura?” is “I really care about it,” just like I really care about the relationship between Sasuke and Naruto, just like I really care about the relationship between Sasuke and Kakashi. And I don’t think the story ever asks me to choose between them.

I’m not sure whether it’s the impact of Boruto-era “canon” that gets in the way of other people approaching things this way (I don’t consider sequel material when I evaluate the original story), or if it’s Kishimoto’s frequent disinterest in/disrespect towards female characters, which yes, does sometimes make it harder, or if it's a shipping thing (bane of my existence), or some combination of factors, but for me, taking one member of Team 7 out of the equation hobbles the rest of the story.  I can’t read/watch Naruto while hating one of the protagonists and loving the other three.  It doesn’t work like that for me.  The story wasn’t written that way, and there’s nothing in the text that would cause me to receive it that way.

That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with disliking one of the main foursome (or any character, for that matter) - obviously we're all going to have different preferences, and everyone is free to enjoy or reject whatever parts of a story they want, or to like or dislike whatever characters they want. I know that some people have more fun disregarding canon and doing their own thing, which is fine.  My own personal zone of enjoyment comes from receiving the story as closely to how I think it was intended to be read as I can, and personally, when I look at this particular story, what I see is that all the members of Team 7 clearly demonstrate their love for Sasuke in ways that he himself later recognizes and acknowledges. All of them are driven by their desire to save him and their unwillingness to hurt him. All of them make repeated choices to chase after him when he runs away, to trust him when he hasn't exactly earned it, to give him another chance when he doesn't appear to deserve it. ALL of them, not just Naruto, do these things multiple times throughout the story, and Sasuke owes his life (and thus his eventual recovery) to ALL of them, many times over. Kakashi disobeys Hokage-elect Danzō and breaks the law to negotiate for Sasuke's life with a foreign head of state. Sakura and Kakashi both have opportunities to kill Sasuke in the Land of Iron, and they choose to spare him instead. Kakashi stops Sasuke from killing his only friends at two different points in the story, which would have been a mistake Sasuke couldn't have recovered from. Sasuke would have died in Kaguya's desert dimension if Sakura hadn't saved him (Sakura, who knew that Sasuke wasn't even truly on her side yet, who knew he'd abandoned her for dead multiple times already that day). Kaguya's bone bullet would have killed Sasuke too, if Kakashi, with his intention to die in Sasuke's place, hadn't leapt in front of it (Kakashi, who also knew that Sasuke wasn't fully on their side yet, who also knew that Sasuke had abandoned him for dead earlier that day). Sasuke and Naruto would have BOTH died in the Final Valley if Sakura and a severely injured Kakashi hadn't chased after them to heal their injuries.

Remove any one member of Team 7, and Sasuke never makes it home. Without the combined efforts of all three of his teammates, he doesn't survive.  That’s the way it should be, thematically, for a story whose first and most foundational premise was the importance of teamwork, and since Sakura was just as essential to that framework as everyone else, I’m just as invested in her relationship with Sasuke as I am in his relationship with everyone else.  You can’t remove one leg from a four-legged stool without damaging the integrity of the entire structure, and for me, discounting any single member of Team 7 irreparably damages the integrity of the entire story. 

TL;DR: I love all of the Team 7 relationships, including Sakura and Sasuke's, because despite what some segments of fandom seem to believe, the text of the story never gives me any reason not to.

[storywestistrash]

i am actually so tired of the way westerners treat eastern europeans

[alexcabotgf]

not to be true crime posting on main but i think i'm falling down the wm3 rabbit hole again

[harrowscore]

why are you, as an adult in 2024, still hung up on reylo. why are you still mocking the shippers. why do you believe yourself to be superior only because you dislike a stupid ship from a fucking space fairytale. girl (gnc) get a grip

[sherlock-is-ace]

.

[torchickentacos]

HEARTBREAKING: Person within your oppressed group acts as if they speak for every single other person in the group