#rooted in misogyny

[not-poignant]

Hi Pia

Do you have any advice on how to deal with antis or fandom backlash?

I want to write about a pairing within my fandom but one of the characters is canonically very 'innocent', ie they're described as having a childlike personality/nature even tho they aren't actually a child. But other creators have been cancelled by the fandom for putting this character into sexual situations and I'm worried this will happen to me also if I write this story.

Any advice?

Hi anon!

So, some advice I can give:

Get really friendly with the block and mute buttons, wherever you are putting your fic. AO3 now has a block function, and also, you can delete any comment that doesn't feel right.

If you're super worried, lock the fic on AO3 so that only registered members can comment. It's almost the anons on AO3 who dogpile (same as anywhere) and it's harder to register multiple sock puppet accounts there. This will mean less views, but you can always unlock it down the track.

Mentally prepare in advance for what you will do to protect yourself if you do attract some antis / backlash. For example you might decide to release the fic as is and then decide to lock it down if you get negative attention. Don't leave any negative comments up on AO3 if you can help it, and don't indulge antis. 9 times out of 10 it's not even close to as bad as what you feared, and often it's not bad at all.

But when it gets bad, it's good to know that you're already prepared. If you need to, write down a list of emergency steps you'll take to deal with trolls (antis) and bullies (antis) and put it with the rest of your story so it's easy to find. This can include blocking, muting, reporting (remember - anything that threatens you as a person can be reported directly to AO3 and that person if they have a registered account generally experiences consequences for that, same on Tumblr), deleting comments without replying to them - deleting is a really underused resource on AO3 as far as I'm concerned, connect with the people who know who you are and love you for who you are, antis are good at attacking the person and not the fic, so at times like that, it's good to remember that there are people out there who like you as a person, and know you're not a terrible person because of some fiction you're writing.

It's worth keeping in mind that there will be people in your fandom who want fic of this character, even if they're quieter because they're scared of antis as well (I've noticed that people are less likely to comment or associate their usernames with certain fics in fandoms if antis are very active in that fandom, which is infuriating). But you are 100% not alone in wanting this content and feeling like reading this content, and you being brave enough to put it out there might also encourage other writers to be brave enough to put theirs out there as well!

I remember something kind of similar happened re: the Dragon Age fandom (though not quite as bad, because the proto-Fascist antis hadn't really come into their stride quite yet, but oof they were getting there), and a lot of folks dealt with it by just like, 'ignoring the children' and putting the content out there. Not all antis are children or teens, but a lot are. Not all antis are under-educated Americans who don't understand nuance (due to the aggressive and systematic de-education of US youths for like two decades now that you have to put actual effort in to overcome - it should be a crime imho), but a lot are. Not all antis are into filthy stuff themselves that they can't actually justify and that they feel secretly extremely ashamed of, but a lot are. And no antis have really solid science behind a single thing they're saying, which renders a lot of what they say as meaningless bleating noise informed by evangelist and right-wing and TERF rhetoric, even if they themselves are queer.

Treat them as you would treat a pornbot on Tumblr - just get rid of it. Most of what they have to say is utter nonsense, and the white noise doesn't deserve to be honoured, because it's toxic.

[burningtheroots]

The entire world is designed around men and their degeneracy, yet misogyny isn’t acknowledged as the serious problem it is. People always throw in other issues which are results of the fact that males put themselves into a position of power where they don’t belong, but women‘s issues are usually treated as an afterthought or as something that "might be bad but not THAT bad".

As soon as we threaten men‘s status quo, we‘re exaggerating and a million things they project onto us.

[yuridovewing]

genuinely embarrassing how blossomfall gets more fandom sympathy than breezepelt. “boohoo my sister is disabled and my mommy is emotionally abusing her paying more attention to her than me and i hate my stupid ass sister for getting herself disabled and wish she died. also im a grown ass woman.” vs “my dad hit and neglected me as a child and isolated me from my clanmates and it left me maladjusted and seeking validation from terrible sources and its implied hes like this because he’s drooling after the one that got away” like how is this not cut and dry. you cant even soak in the shitty “well breezepelt was a shitty kid” excuse because blossomfall was also shitty before and after the incident. tbh, id argue she’s shittier because breezepelt actually did change his behavior while blossomfall is just as bigoted as ever.

[stardust-falling]

Having more thoughts about Shen Jiu because of course I am.

I don’t think he has the capacity for empathy or genuine selflessness.

He spent the entirety of his formative years deep in survival mode, and because of that, he evaluates people solely based off of how they might threaten or ensure his safety and/or comfort. As far as individual people themselves with their own perspectives… honestly I don’t think he even thinks of that.

Maybe a controversial opinion, but I don’t think even YQY is exempt.

Shen Jiu doesn’t have a moral code. When every day is spent on surviving, a moral code is a luxury.

And really, he just never got out of that mode. See, the thing is, once you’ve had enough adverse experiences it only takes a little bit to trigger you back into that mindset. Shen Jiu was used to being scolded and then beaten or abused, so for him, even a simple chiding is a precursor to abuse— even if he DOES recognize that nothing more will happen, his body and mental patterns will still go into that preparation time.

So of course he never left survival mode, because even if nothing is actively happening, your mind will keep reinforcing those patterns.

For someone with a normal upbringing, as far as I can tell, empathy is something you learn and develop from those around you. Many seem to think it’s something innate and natural and if you don’t have it then there’s something wrong with you from birth. I think Shen Jiu falls into exactly this category of thought— and so he doesn’t even consider that he could try to learn and develop it as a skill he can perform, even if it doesn’t come naturally.

Of course, would he even try? He hasn’t been given any incentive. Any time he has tried to do something good, he ends up getting hurt (saving Yue Qi leading to being taken by QJL) or misinterpreted and admonished (the well ghost incident, keep in mind my earlier point about scoldings perpetuating the same patterns).

So he stays in that same vicious cycle, perpetually in survival mode and unable to escape, even in a relatively secure position (see: his paranoia).

Now, this is all relevant to the discussions of SJ’s feminism, misogyny, and/or lack thereof. I feel like a lot of discussions aren’t really getting the full picture.

SJ sees people, no matter who they are, as solely how they can affect him. Just because this isn’t exclusive to women, or because if comes from a reasonable place, does that really mean it doesn’t play into misogyny?

Let’s take another angle.

I think his abuse of LBH and other talented disciples also is rooted, deep down, in this same issue. He’s not just hurting LBH only to hurt him, his aim is specifically to stunt his cultivation. There’s jealousy at play there of course, but there’s a bit more layers to it too— SJ doesn’t think he’s capable of goodness. So reasonably, he’ll be a bad teacher. He already knows what happens when someone becomes more powerful than their oppressor. LBH may be a child now, but a part of SJ whether he acknowledges it or not sees him as a future threat that needs to be treated as such.

It’s rooted in fear— because everything is with SJ.

So does that mean it’s not actually abuse?

No. The behaviors he shows are still abusive, the reasoning just gives a lens for understanding.

Now, with his views on women— I mentioned in the tags of my original post that I don’t think he views women as people. This is based in that earlier idea of how he interprets others based off their risk and benefit to him. For women specifically, though, there’s another layer.

Shen Jiu grew up in a society where women are inherently lesser— and he grew up in an extreme version of this. He saw women being treated as property firsthand(both as slaves, as well as QJL’s views on his sister). Your worldview is shaped by the world that you view during those early years. Whether he agreed or not, SJ would still take on the patterns of his environment. This, though, is just the same as general societal misogyny and ingrained bias. I don’t think he’s any different than anyone else in this way.

But where SJ’s particular flavor comes in is that to him, women are a source of comfort. For various reasons— positive past experiences, less threatening (or at least don’t carry the dangers men do). He craves comfort— needs it really, because he doesn’t get it and his cortisol levels are always so high they’re poisoning his body. Women are the best source of that comfort for him.

It’s not that he likes them— at least, not any more than someone would like drinking water, or a coat in the winter. They’re fulfilling a survival need for him.

That is what the objectification is where SJ is concerned.

So… is it misogyny?

I’d say yes, in a way it still is. It’s not violent, and it doesn’t come from some inherent sense of “superiority as a man” but at the core of it all, he’s still not viewing women as people, and he has no interest in changing the status quo, because it benefits him to be able to go purchase comfort at a pleasure house, even if it’s not what people usually do there. The picture is bigger than just misogyny, but the traits taken as themselves are misogynistic nonetheless.

I could go into his specific relationships with women and how that informs his character, but this post is already long enough. We know that he mentally divides people by sex, and that distinction has a lot of weight in his judgment of them. Even if it comes from a place of trauma, even if it comes from a general worldview that applies to everyone, he still views women as a commodity— so on some level, and from an outside perspective, he is misogynistic.

In the end, though, it still all comes from him being stuck in survival mode. His lack of empathy, his viewing others as risks and benefits— these things themselves aren’t moral failings— it’s just a consequence of his environment. He’s a bad person because he won’t confront this, develop a moral code, and act on it, not because he doesn’t experience empathy.

But in his circumstance, there’s not really a chance for him to choose to be good. Because he’s still trying to survive, and goodness is a luxury he doesn’t realize he can afford now.

He’s scum, but pitiful, you know?

[doublel27]

I’m deeply curious why people think Taichi is a selfless hero for forcefully defending Kohei against people whose actions are potentially or actively harmful to him but Maya is a bitchy villain for defending Kohei (with less force and malevolence) when Taichi’s actions are potentially or actively harmful toward him, even if that was never Taichi’s intent.

Why does a disabled girl calling an abled boy out on his lack of care or understanding upset you so?

[nyracel]

the complete and utter irony of aegon waging war against a woman to be the ruling monarch, along with the only two battles he fought in being against women (well, one woman and a child); then being left with just a little girl as his heir at the end of it all, unable to produce any more sons and refusing to name his daughter as his successor. every decision he made, from agreeing to usurp the throne to murdering rhaenyra, concludes with her son being declared king, and his life ending due to a woman’s weapon. poetic justice if i do say so myself.

[ups3tti]

If I said I didn't understand all the llorumi hate in the ninjago fandom would yall burn me at the stake

[marzipanandminutiae]

I know it's a joke usually, but I just despise the term "girly" as a noun so much

it feels infantilizing. it feels disrespectful. and no matter how many times you say it's Ironic or Just For Comedy, I will always cringe inside when I hear it and refuse to be called referred to that way

[zaacataac]

I might be wrong but tbh I've noticed that a lot of people in the queer community like to be mean to trans men for no reason

[araindropshallfall]

I hope the new female characters on ofmd are buffoons like the rest of ‘em. Just absolutely nonsense disaster people like everyone else.

[sammygender]

years ago i remember someone saying about dave strider that either he’s gay or he’s bisexual but deep down too misogynistic to actually have a fulfilling romantic relationship with a woman. anyway. this is how i see dean winchester

[xxx-theartofsuicide-xxx]

You can take basically any anti-shipper rant, remove the ship specific details and replace it with homosexuality, and suddenly the point proshippers are trying to make becomes really clear.

[iphigeniastrangeworth]

me: yeah i have a vagina and uterus and all but my testosterone levels are naturally pretty high-

jk rowling, already loading a shotgun: some crimes can never be forgiven, son of man

[mourninglamby]

all my favorite pieces are hyper feminine and cutsie and I used to be rly insecure abt liking that stuff but now it’s my favorite thing in the world to draw about 🩷🩷

[clownscasino]

if you hate on kaboodle for doing the same shit guys on this server have been doing for years, know that i truly believe you fucking suck.

[henrybelly]

honestly when i tried to figure out why some fans are so mad at ivypool these days i was looking through avos and. the scene where ivypool apologises to twigpaw for not supporting sending a patrol for skyclan is genuinely very sweet??

i actually saw someone characterize this as "ivypool forcing twigpaw to forgive her". is it crack you smoke. is that what you smoke. you smoke crack?