#queerplatonic aro culture

[aro-culture-is]

Aro culture is being so queerplatonically in love with someone you start to question your aromanticism until you imagine yourself with them in typical romantic scenarios and get the ick 💀

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[franknfurterstriangulardinosaur]

I love being aromantic. It’s so nice to not live with the expectations of a romantic relationship. It’s nice to be my own person and be able to experience them freely. It’s nice for no one to have to be superior to anyone in my mind- to not have a hierarchy. It’s nice to have friendship. It’s nice to go out with your friends and do all those things that are supposed to be romantic but as a platonic intent. I love being aromantic. I love being the colour green. I love the flag. I love tearing down amatonormativity and social values. I love the culture. I love the tiny aromantic hints I’ve had my entire life. I love aromantic music. I love taking the romance out of love songs. I love not just viewing life as a time to fulfill romance. I love having all these hidden aromantic symbols. I love queer platonic relationships. I love other aromantic people. I love talking about being aromantic. I love being aromantic- I love being myself.

[someoneshotacricketwitharocket]

BLeeM said another banger that perfectly articulated what I've been thinking for years in the last MisMag2 AP regarding fandom, (fan)fiction, and shipping culture.

Quote, analysis, and timestamp below the cut <3

Brennan: ... there's two things, which is that you want to celebrate romantic relationships, especially if those romantic relationships are representing underrepresented orientations or genders or anything like that, but there's a moment where also I'll sometimes see people read into things and they're like, "That's romantic!" And I'll be like, oh, if you saw me with any of my friends in real life.... But like the amount of physical interaction I have with my friends in my life is something that would be "read" into if it was a work of fiction.

Timestamp is 6:56-7:28 in Episode 11 of Misfits and Magic 2 Adventuring Party: The Casablanca of It All

TL;DR: The underrepresentation of romantic relationships involving minority identities needs to addressed, but at the same time non-romantic relationships deserve just as much care and attention. These ideas are often opposing, and both lead to and are the root of amatonormativity and individualism vs the community mindset.

That's Absolutely true, and as an aroacespec person that is something I struggle with both in my real world life and in fandom/shipping culture (albeit in different ways).

Like yes romantic relationships rock, especially for relationships that are in the minority - whether that be orientation, gender identity, relationship structure, etc. among others. On the flip side though, having strong platonic (and other non-romantic relationships like familial, sensual, queerplatonic, alterous, sexual, kinky, etc) can be just as valid and intricate and beautiful as romantic ones. Relationships of Any kind can be deep and intimate and wonderous, and there isn't some magical limit or cap put on how valid or acceptable or "good" a relationship is just because it isn't romantic.

And that kind of amatonormativity honestly can be really toxic for Everyone involved and I feel like it reflects the individualistic mindset found in society, especially Western society. Because the implications are that:

You need to find "The One" to be a complete person, as they will be your other half that will make you whole

This person will be a romantic (and probably sexual) partner whom you assumably will get married to and have kids with.

As soon as you establish that you have met "The One", it is fine or even expected to neglect your other relationships, as your needs are being met by this singular person.

These other relationships usually end up being friendships and non-romantic relationships as they are the ones that people "rely on" whilst not dating (I say in quotes because many people seem to use non-romantic relationships as a crutch or as something to tide them over until they are in a romantic relationship).

Instead of having your community and groups that fulfill different aspects of your needs and wants, these are all instead thrust upon a singular person, which can then lead to resentment and a feeling of neglect and failure when one person cannot keep up with the workload of multiple.

At the end of the day, amatonormativity pushes the individualistic "everyone-out-for-themselves" mindset, and works directly against the community mindset where it is okay to lean on people for different needs and be leaned upon when you are strong enough to support others.

It can be very upsetting when people, that you considered part of your community and close circles, suddenly leave or de-escalate the relationship for a romantic relationship. There's nothing inherently or morally bad about doing so (although it is often upsetting), but doing so without communicating that to the involved parties is what really gets me. Deciding to change the dynamics of a relationship - without even discussing it with the person/people involved - comes off as ignorant or careless. Maybe it is what is needed for the new relationship (especially new ones as they develop - although that does deserve some introspection into why if it becomes long-term)It can leave the other person feeling confused and conflicted, wondering if they were in the wrong somehow, or what they did to deserve the treatment they've been given.

And therein lies my confliction in fandom and shipping culture, because it feels like people can get into massive shipping wars even down to the type of relationship. And yes, there is homophobia in some of it (think: "Why can't two guys/girls be friends anymore? Everything just has to be gay now.") which absolutely needs to be addressed, but - ignoring the homophobia - there is a point in assuming that every close relationship has to be romantic. Yes, we need more representation of romantic pairings/relationships with minorities, but non-romantic versions have just as much potential.

TL;DR: The underrepresentation of romantic relationships involving minority identities needs to addressed, but at the same time non-romatnic relationships deserve just as much care and attention. These ideas are often opposing, and both lead to and are the root of why amatonormativity and individualism vs the community mindset.

[qpr-culture-is]

qpr culture is wishing all of the aspecs in qprs a very happy ace awareness week!

[rose-reveries]

Waking up every day with you in a small cozy house, where we have a silly old orange cat that lounges around in the sunlight. We don’t feel the need to talk every day but the silence is comfortable and filled with love and admiration. I see a frog on the way to work and take a picture just for you so you can see it later. I make us a meal for dinner that reminds me of our memories together and we share it over a bottle of wine. We take walks in the park across the street everyday holding hands for the next 60 years. I love you so much, my dear and just want to be your platonic partner in life

[aro-yearning-culture-is]

Aro yearning culture is actually getting into a qpp with your squish!!! 2.5 years now!!!

that's awesome!! congrats to you both :]

[aroacearchangel]

godddd I really do not enjoy being a natural flirt (whatever the fuck that means) because then people are interested and .. what the fuck am i supposed to tell u. no but it isn’t personal.?? I’d rather eat tree bark but you seem nice?? Can we just hang out and have a movie night platonically with zero expectations bc that sounds so much better.

[pinkrangerv]

Supernatural isn't canonically anything. They barely know that queer people exist, just enough to make homophobic jokes and do the "bury your gays" trope

So the post you're referring to is one where we're discussing queer subtext. Yes, the SPN writers did in fact know what queer people are, and probably knew about aromanticism and asexuality--those two, not by name, but queer people did not suddenly start existing in 2014. They knew. That's why Charlie was a character. She was lesbian. That was textual. They really, really knew gay people existed.

SPN writers not only understood aromanticism and asexuality, they very lovingly wrote an entire series that makes an insane amount of sense from that lens. Sure, those words are obscure to your average rando straight, but consider:

Neither Dean or Sam have a girlfriend (past Jessie). Dean never even has a girlfriend in the first place. Past Jessie's death, Dean has sex and Sam occasionally finds a girl, but for all Sam's torn about it, the 'important' relationship in life is as brothers.

Castiel doesn't sleep with Dean, nor does he date him. But Castiel says he has a profound bond with him, from early on, and he'll drop everything to go spend time with Dean and Sam.

These relationships exist in real life. They're queer relationships--aromantic and asexual ones. Castiel and Dean canonically have a queerplatonic relationship, because that's what that means: they are functioning as a married couple, but don't do the 'married' bits. Sam and Dean have a familial relationship and don't break apart for other ones; this is common with asexual or aromantic people.

Without these relationships, there's no plot. There's no Supernatural. Sure, if you'd asked the writers, they wouldn't have known the words--but these are very, very much queer themes. They're just not gay themes.

It's kind of ridiculous to say that anyone, in any part of history, doesn't understand that queer people exist. The SPN writers did not live under a rock. They may not have approved of being gay, sure, but you don't write an entire show requiring asexual relationships without having an understanding it exists. They were grown adults, not five-year-olds. Yes, they put that in on purpose, no matter what they thought the name was.

If you have gay headcanons, great, go for it. But claiming that the entire premise of the show is somehow 'not really aro\ace' because you really want gay sex? Yeah, this is not canon. It's your headcanon. That's not bad, either! Fandom involves thousands of alternate universes, and what-ifs, and all kinds of headcanons--it's a vital part of it! It's not somehow 'lesser' for your headcanon not to be canon.

But canonically, the queer themes in the text of SPN are aro\ace. Charlie is gay. But the Winchesters and Castiel are not.

[hannaxjo]

I wonder if the reason I prefer more obscure or controversial ships is, that at least with them I don’t have to listen to the incessant ‘there is no platonic explanation for this’ bullshit every-fucking-where I go.

[altschmerzes]

i meant less the inability for people to tag their shit correctly and more the constant crush of hyper-emphasis on romantic shipping, normalized and extreme amatonormativity ('there's no platonic explanation for this' 'if you think they aren't in love you're delusional/lying/stupid/etc' 'WHO would do x for a mere FRIEND' etc), harassment of people who don't like certain ships or ships at all, harassment of people who request politely but firmly that people don't make ship based commentary on their fanworks (which i and people i know have repeatedly personally experienced), the expectation that anyone and everyone is in fandom because they enjoy and want to engage in romantic shipping, etc etc etc tbh. it's a constant and inescapable background noise of 'the main/only point of fandom is romantic shipping and if you disagree you're weird/a prude/a mood killer' and even people who are cool about it tend to constantly make 'aren't they so in love' comments about two characters who made eye contact or stood in the same room to whoever happens to be nearby. there is no consideration of whether it is the appropriate time or place for romantic commentary, and the idea of someone having boundaries around that is considered antithetical to the entirety of fandom's existence.

so like, yeah, i've enjoyed cool aspec stuff and qpr representation as well, but the problems that i deal with trying to exist in fandom spaces that prompted me to make this post are so, so much more than just inaccurate tagging (which ALSO drives me nuts, but is just one of Many problems) and aren't ameliorated by the existence of qpr fic (which i love but people make a lot of really weird amatonormative and aphobic commentary about) and 'cool aspec stuff' (see previous).

if you are aromantic and have Tried To Exist In Fandom Spaces you may be entitled to financial compensation-

[aro-culture-is]

Aro queerplatonic culture is Lavender Haze by Taylor Swift.

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[arowitharrows]

These are some links to recourses on different topics, mostly things I want to be able to find again so I'm collecting them here. Please be aware that many of these articles include discussions of queerphobia, racism or abuse. I can't put warnings on every link, so proceed with caution. This is not meant to be a complete or final list, I will most likely be editing it as time goes by.

Aspec terminology / Flags

Queerplatonic coining post on dreamwidth (x)

Sunset aroace flag original post (x)

A History Of Words Used To Describe People That Are Not Asexual (x)

Discussions of aphobia

Note: I am still waiting for the day when aphobia can be discussed without aromanticism being treated as a subcategory of asexuality.

Stonewall report on asexual discrimination, UK 2023 (x)

Scientific America article on medical stigma against asexuality, USA 2023 (x)

Article about the religious right attacking sexless marriage, USA (x)

Podcast about the religious right attacking platonic marriages and general analysis about why the religious right hate asexuality (and aromanticism), USA part 1 part 2 part 3 part 4

Amatonormativity

Website of Elizabeth Brake, the coiner of the term Amatonormativity (x)

Amatonormativity in the law: an introduction, USA 2022 (x)

Opinion: I grew up in a culture that embraced physical touch. Then I came to America, Ethiopia 2023(x)

'I Dont Want To be a Playa No More': An Exploration of the Denigrating effects of 'Player' as a Stereotype Against African American Polyamorous Men (x)

Romance is not the only type of Black love that matters by Sherronda J. Brown, USA 2018 (x)

Relationship Anarchy

Relationship Anarchy, Occupy intimacy!, Spain 2020 (x) also available in Spanish and catalan

The short instructional manifesto for relationship anarchy (x)

Tumblr post with multiple links about relationship anarchy (x)

Marriage and being Single

Ted talk: how romance and capitalism could destroy our future, 2014 (x)

The escalating costs of being single in America, USA 2021 (x)

Unmarried equality, many articles about discrimination against single people. USA focused (x)

No Shelter for Singles: The Perceived Legitimacy of Marital Status Discrimination, USA 2011 (x)

Loveless Aro

I Am Not Voldemort: An Essay on Love and Amatonormativity (x)

Aroworlds loveless Aro friendly fiction collection (x)

Loveless Aro experiences and explanations (post0 aurea article post 1 post 2 post 3 post 4 post 5 post 6)

[ckret2]

Hey, so you've mentioned that Bollford will eventually play a small part in the fic... and that got me wondering. What exactly are their sexualities? Bill isn't technically any human gender (I don't think? Like he just says he's male becuase its easier?) could human sexualities apply to him? And becuase of that... what would it make Ford? Obviously he only ever loved Bill becuase he's a monster fucker... but what now? Is he actually plansexual? What's your take?

This is Bill's own answer about his sexuality, from the reddit Bill Cipher AMA:

Because the original comment was removed, a lot of later readers assume that Bill is talking about what his own gender is; but the original comment actually asked what his orientation is.

Since Bill's reply says "my dimension has" rather than "had," and he talks like he COULD file his paperwork if he were so inclined, I'm assuming that by "my dimension" he means the Nightmare Realm, not Euclydia. (If I tell you something about "my town," I'm talking about the town I live in, not the hometown I left a decade ago. Why assume Bill does differently?) So he's talking about trying to figure out his orientation in a context of mingling with alien genders, not his orientation within the context of his home dimension.

From his answer, I can conclude three things:

His orientation isn't whatever was considered normal for his culture (example: straight in a heteronormative culture), because if he was attracted only to The Things He Was Expected To Be Attracted To and never attracted to The Things He Wasn't Expect To Be Attracted To, that would be pretty easy for him to recognize.

His orientation isn't ace/aro, because if he was attracted to NOTHING that would be really easy for him to recognize.

His orientation isn't pan, because if he was attracted to EVERYTHING that would be really easy for him to recognize.

So he knows for a fact that there's some genders he definitely feels attraction to and he knows for a fact that there's some genders he never feels attraction to, and they're not the genders considered "normal" in his species, meaning he can't just make a sweeping "yes" or "no" declaration about his attraction to as-yet-unknown genders.

That's as much as we know about his orientation and that's as deep as I care to take it. He knows some things he likes and he knows some things he doesn't like and sometimes he runs into something new and discovers whether he likes it.

As for Ford, I personally headcanon him as somewhere on the ace/aro spectrum—whether that's ace-ace and aro-aro or something a little more demi/gray depends on my mood, the weather, the stock market, and what house Mercury is in.

Is he a "monsterfucker" in the sense of "experiences sexual attraction to monsters" or the sense of "has a kink for monstrosity and is turned on by the excitement of (sexually) exploring something new and strange"? He couldn't tell you.

Has he ever fallen in love? He doesn't think so. Could he ever fall in love? Is he going to fall "in love"? Define "love". What's the dividing line between "emotionally wrapping yourself around someone who fills you with awe and excitement and the contentment of being understood and fantasizing about the wonders he'll show you and the ways he'll impact your life" and "love"? Define the dividing line between platonic friendship and queerplatonic friendship. Define the dividing line between romantic love and queerplatonic love. What's the precise difference between a crush and an obsession. What's the precise difference between a special interest and a romantic interest. If your answer involves criteria like "the desire to kiss" it's no good. Ford's made out with his special interests. He's spent fifty years trying to figure out how to kiss moths.

As far as he can tell he's like this

Ford's a busy man of science, he's got better things to do than search for his precise microlabel*. (*Ford doesn't know what microlabels are.)

This is how he sees it. Forget about the actions and rituals people assume automatically come with "love" and "attraction" and "desire" and "relationships" and "orientations." You don't need to know what your orientation is. For example you wouldn't need to know you like women in order to Like A Woman, your body would just make you like her. An orientation is just a label used to categorize your observations of your body's instincts. So focus on your instincts rather than your label.

You find somebody. You like them. They like you. You want to do things with them. Don't waste time trying to figure out if you're "in love" by comparing the things you want against a hypothetical list of things that somebody in love would want: just pay attention to what you want to do with them.

Kiss? Go to movies? Talk about interdimensional quantum mechanics for eight hours straight? Hold hands? Sleep together? Bring them to family reunions? Play board games? Live together and jointly make decisions about finances, careers, education? Live next door to each other so you can see each other every day without having to cooperate on so many parts of your lives? Get joint filing tax breaks? Entrust each other to make medical decisions if one of you is in a coma?

These are a few of many possibilities. Maybe you want some of them but not others. Maybe you want some things that aren't listed. Maybe you hate this entire list. Whatever. Doesn't matter. Just figure out the things you want to do with them. They figure out the things they want to do with you.

Maybe you don't know whether you're "in love". Maybe one of you is "in love" and the other one isn't. It's irrelevant! The only benefit to knowing whether you're in love is that it provides a template with a list of things you probably want to do (kiss; sex; marry; babies; whatever)—but wouldn't you prefer to do the things you WANT to do rather than do the things you think you SHOULD want based on how you THINK you feel? You just figured out what you want from the person you like all by yourself, so who NEEDS "love"! You have a list!

Now you two can compare lists! You decide which things you both want to do and which things you don't. You compromise. You reach a mutual agreement on a way to conduct your relationship that will make you both happy. You have made...

... a plan.

(In the fic, I plan to continue addressing Bill's orientation by having him crack jokes about paperwork and answer questions like "do you like boys or girls?" with "sometimes"; and this chapter is probably as deep as I'll get into directly addressing Ford's orientation: "I only know there's been too many aliens for me to be straight." With Bill currently in human form, Ford sees him as "Bill (triangle) stuck inside a human puppet" rather than as "Bill (human)," so how Ford feels about Bill has no relevance to how Ford feels about human genders and vice versa.)

[qpr-culture-is]

qpr culture is having a friend come out as aro and immediately wanting to introduce them to the idea of qprs bc they (qprs that is) mean a lot to you and might be helpful to them

(ofc there are plenty aros out there that dont want nonplatonic relationships, which is totally fine, but as I said it could very well be helpful info for them!)

[sainteclectic]

+ since it's aro awareness week, I'll finally unleash that rant on why the state of shipping discourse in this fandom bothers me

disclaimer that i am not saying you can't be uncomfortable with jashshipping!! I don't really like romantic shipping in this fandom either. this is just a commentary on the culture surrounding this discourse and fandom shipping in general. OK LET'S GO.

I've noticed this weird distinction people make between platonic and romantic art in regards to what gets the "jashshipping" tag added. it's also incredibly arbitrary what kinds of posts are considered "jashshipping" - is a qpr jashshipping? why not? they're in a relationship. why does it matter if it's romantic or not? why is romance the only kind of shipping seen as valid, either positively or negatively?

on a personal level, I feel this pressure to always clarify that I'm not talking about romantic pairings. qprs, close friendships and relationship anarchy in general aren't seen as jashshipping, and it feels like I need to preemptively devalue my queerplatonic ships by saying they "don't really count." I need to be careful about my work not being "too romantic" or people assume I'm "jashshipping." i just find it demeaning as a partnering aromantic person.

and this culture is why people who enjoy non-romantic pairings don't want them to be tagged as ship - because there's this implication that a ship HAS to mean romance. it shouldn't, but it still does. it would be great if we lived in a world where shipping meant any kind of relationship between two characters instead of just referring to romance, but we don't.

this is why I tag ship names without tagging it as jashshipping. because the nature of "shipping" in this fandom is always implied to be romantic in nature, which is what makes it the most taboo to discuss. so I don't tag it as jashship because that's only used for romance {or for what the fandom perceives as inherently romantic actions, which is another can of worms entirely}. but elevating a romantic ship to a higher negative standard is still placing romance above any other form of relationship. there's still a hierarchy in place.

I don't think ships as a whole {hah} need to be defined by romantic attraction. it's short for relationship, after all. to designate ships as ONLY romantic implies that romance is the only valid type of relationship. and to designate romantic ships as uniquely bad still implies romance is a unique type of bond.

{I also have an issue with the implication that dating what is essentially your headmate is selfcest by default, but that's another discussion}

TL;DR - I think the culture around what designates something as "jashshipping" should be viewed with more scrutiny. it's very amatonormative to assume pairings with any level of closeness is "jashshipping," and it implies a hierarchy of relationships even if that hierarchy is negative. jashship works as a content tag for anyone uncomfortable with romantic pairings, but to imply it's an objective judgment on what's considered romance is reductive.

[aro-yearning-culture-is]

aro yearning culture is finally getting a queerplatonic bf and being so happy!!!