#pan exclusionist

[lust-for-ultraviolence]

Transmedicalism is the idea that being transgender is primarily a medical issue related to the incongruence between an individual's assigned sex at birth and their gender identity, characterized by gender dysphori.Many transmedicalists believe individuals who identify as transgender without experiencing gender dysphoria or desiring to undergo a medical transition through methods such as hormone replacement therapy or sex reassignment surgery are not genuinely transgender.They may also exclude those who identify themselves as non-binary from the trans label.

Exclusionist is someone who attempts to gatekeep the LGBT+ community by claiming that certain groups aren't "really" LGBT+ based on their own definition.

Example, asexual people are not lgbt for being asexual, they must be either trans or homo/bi-romantic. A cis het ace is not welcomed into the community. They also usually believe pansexual is a transphobic version of bisexual.

These are shortened definitions.

If this poll causes too much trouble, I’ll delete it.

[genderstarbucks]

Can y'all stop centering the definition of lesbian around hating men and start centering the definition of lesbian around our love for women?

Like if gay was centered around the definition of hating women you'd call that misogynistic right? So why is it okay to do that with lesbian

Lesbian will never have a clear cut definition that fits everybody, but centering it around hating men feels icky

What about the lesbians that DO love men? What about us?

Being surrounded by people who think that lesbianism is just about hating men is getting tiring

Lesbianism is defined by our queer love for women, it shouldn't be defined about hating men

Also while I'm at it, the non men loving non men definition of lesbian is icky too

Nmlnm isn't as inclusive as you think it is, plus the word non men (and non women) was used to dehumanize black people

You can use the nmlnm definition of lesbian for yourself, but don't force it on others

[seraphic-sapphic-safehaven]

Nah fr though, don't reblog my shit if you're hateful towards any queer identity!!

If you don't like pan, ply, or omni people, fuck off.

Hate MOGAI? Get bent.

If you don't like acespecs and/or arospecs, fuck off.

Hate mspec lesbians? Leave right tf now.

If you don't like enbies, fuck off.

Hate cultural identities? Turn tf around.

If you're hateful towards any of these identities and/or lesbians, bi people, gay people, trans people, or any other part of this community, get the literal and actual fuck out of here.

WE DON'T DO EXCLUSIONARY BULLSHIT IN THIS SPACE! WE NEVER HAVE! AND WE NEVER, EVER, EVERRRR WILL!!

This is a safe space for queer people, especially the ones who get spoken over and shit on all the time, NOT hateful and bigoted people. And when I say hateful and bigoted people, I'm including queer people who feel the need to hurt and harm and harass and shit-talk other queers. Go anywhere else if you wanna be a jerk!! Hope this helps 🫶🏾🫶🏾

[oy--with-the-poodles-already]

”mspec lesbians and lesboys DNI” BOOOOO!! 🍅 BOOOO!!!! 🍅 🍅 🍅

[januscorner]

Anti Mspec Lesbian and Lesboy Blocklist

@prismcollective (anti Lesboy)

@locketfemme / @femmptaion / @potion0fhealing (Anti m-spec lesbian)

@violottie (Anti M-spec lesbians and lesboys, transandrophobic)

@meanbitchydyke (anti mspec lesbian, panphobic, and transandrophobic)

@princessefemmelesbian (anti mspec lesbians and lesboys)

@butchismo (anti mspec lesbian)

@cronaz-diary (anti lesboy)

@yourfavehatesmspeclesbians (Anti mspec lesbian)

@stepfordmaxxing (anti mspec lesbian)

@g00byg00b3rz (anti lesboy)

@itsdismay (anti lesboy)

@redhairbigshoes (added by kaut-nites)

@heartsanddarts (anti mspec lesbian)

@yearning-butch (anti mspec lesbian)

@stitchmyluvvingbones (anti mspec lesbian and lesboy)

@catgirlies (anti mspec lesbian)

@ocd--culture--is (anti mspec lesbian)

@fuchial (anti mspec lesbian)

@thecanadianweeb (anti lesboy)

@moxx-n-angel (anti lesboy)

@luvcalico (anti lesboy and mspec lesbian)

@myusernamesyes2 (anti lesboy)

@kno-user-name (anti lesboy and mspec lesbian)

@pinkyfl4k (anti mspec lesbian)

@sailorsenshisweetheart (anti mspec lesbian)

@ewperttheartist (anti lesboy)

@that-rabid-lemur (anti lesboy)

@sevikasenby (anti mspec lesbian and lesboy)

@bpdpaimon (anti mspec lesbian)

@troobie (Just fucked up generally)

@artinvain (anti mspec lesbian)

@blessing-18 (anti mspec lesbian and lesboy)

@krissysbetle (anti mspec lesbian)

@thelesbianeducator (anti mspec lesbian and lesboy)

@ilviloebseie (anti mspec lesbian and lesboy)

@ratb1t3 (anti lesboy)

@fertilefemme (Anti mspec lesbian and lesboy)

@sapphic-shoka (Anti mspec lesbian)

@transmascbillcipher69 (anti mspec lesbian and lesboy)

@normaxxxy (anti mspec lesbian and lesboy)

@bi-dykes (anti mspec lesbian)

Update: dykeishfreak, thatspep, and perennialkarmaofficial are no longer exclusionists

[plague-and-creatures]

People who try to define lesbian solely by the exclusion on men and men aligned people are weird and come off as kinda immature to me

And I'm not just talking about the "nmlnm" people, I'm also talking about the people that will question a lesbian's sexuality if she idolizes a male celebrity, because no lesbian could ever like a man enough to put pictures of him all over her wall unless she wasn't really a lesbian

Apparently????

It's the people who make it a point that they have a distaste for or hatred of men, and they've tied that into their sexual orientation

Then they go "can we have something that's not all about men for once?", not realizing that by using the exclusion of men to define a certain identity they still are making it all about men

And talking about bi-lesbians with people like this always comes down to what is basically "well bisexuality can include attraction to men and I don't want boy cooties on my sexuality!"

Literally grow up

[bilesproblems]

Short Piece: the Principle of Self-Exclusion (and why it's better than mandated exclusion)

I have referenced this principle in the past and said I need to write something on it, so now I'm actually doing that. The definition I will use for the principle of self exclusion is "it is only necessary for a term to define what it is and who it does include, not what it isn't or who it doesn't include. People who the term does not describe and who do not belong will naturally feel no sense of identification with it, and will self-exclude, and people who do not self exclude must feel some sort of genuine sense of identification with the term, and therefore belong."

This is a general principle, so there are of course exceptions based on circumstance. There are terms, such as nonbinary, faunic/daunic and floric, nomasexual/nowomasexual, and cisn't or straightn't that are very specific about what they aren't and/or who someone isn't attracted to, and hence the principle of self exclusion isn't entirely applicable to, but generally the idea of "it isn't necessary to enforce exclusion because people who it doesn't describe won't identify with it and people who identify with it are described by it in some way, else they wouldn't identify with it" can apply. There are also times when co-opted definitions become popular, like stud for example being used outside of its black-only context, in which case it is necessary to correct the record on the original definition and its exclusivity. So don't take this as a 100% infallible principle in every instance - it is a general rule of thumb.

In the context of mspec lesbians, it is an obvious application. There are no bisexual people wrongfully invading the lesbian label, because bi people who are not lesbians do not feel a sense of identity with being a lesbian. When a bi person does identify as a lesbian, there is a reason they feel connected to lesbianism, some of these being simple and obvious reasons like "I experience split attraction" or "I am bi and not attracted to men" but some are deeper and more personal such as "I had heterosexuality enforced on me so harshly that being a lesbian and centering my love of women is the best way to reclaim my autonomy and defy enforced heterosexuality, even though I am bisexual."

It's also true for lesboys, specifically aptobinary cis man lesboys. It's not usually defined as trans exclusive, but there is a reason that the vast majority of lesboys are trans. Most aptobinary cis men will not feel like lesbians in earnest, because the word doesn't describe them. Most aptobinary cis men who identify as lesboys later come out as trans and/or nonbinary, and the reason that it resonated with them was because they weren't actually men and didn't know it yet. If an aptobinary cis man does identify as a lesboy, then it can be assumed that there is some reason that its resonating with them, if they are identifying with the lesboy term in earnest and not as a joke. It isn't necessary to kick them out.

Sometimes, yes, people will claim to be an identity they do not genuinely hold. Does anyone remember "I'm a straight lesbian, I'm straight but I like the lesbian aesthetic" thing? Yeah that person came out as saying they weren't actually a straightbian, and invalidating anyone who did identify as a straight lesbian in earnest. Though there can be some good done in reinforcing that this particular person was not a straightbian and misrepresented the identity, it would not be necessary to tell them "NO, you're NOT A STRAIGHTBIAN" because people who do not earnestly hold the identity simply don't care. Straight men who jokingly say they're lesbians don't need to be strictly kicked out of the lesbian and lesboy labels because they do not genuinely identify that way. It makes them basically immune. You cannot stop people from joking even when it isn't funny, and when people with complex identities are thrown under the bus for the sake of proving why someone's pretend identity isn't valid, you're just further hurting the community. The actual best way to hurt an unfunny jokester is to take their identity 100% seriously, and act like you don't even get the joke. Now there's no one laughing. The punchline is lost when "straight lesbian" "lesbian man" and "bi lesbian" are normalized identities. Plus the joking party is usually someone with some queerphobic beliefs, so if their joke identity isn't succeeding at pissing off anyone nor is it funny, rather they're being associated with and assumed to be a "weird" queer, suddenly they won't want to say that's what they are anymore.

So yea that's pretty much it. People will exclude themselves based on if they fit the meaning, and if they seemingly don't but still identify with it, then something about the term's meaning is resonating with them and they have a reason and right to use it. When people joke, just ignore them and take it seriously and then when they don't get a reaction they want, they too will self exclude

[lilacs-stash]

Bow and Pepper are bi lesbians trust me my cat works at AE

[corrie-zodori]

Be free to be your best you!

[spinobsessed]

I think that “bi/pan lesbian” is based on an outdated idea of lesbianism and is no longer necessary since being bisexual or omnisexual with a preference for girls is now an option, but I still respect it. I get that y’all wanna connect to our history and even if I find it a lil unnecessary, it’s still awesome, I support it, and I love breaking rules

[genderstarbucks]

[ID: 2 images that are a drawing of a white hand with the middle finger up with a lesboy bracelet and an mspec lesbian ring on the middle finger. They both have a white background. They both say "FUCK OFF!" on the left side of the image. The image on the left has "FUCK OFF!" in a black text and the image on the right has "FUCK OFF!" in a red text.

I'm tired of the exclusionsinism within the queer community. Lesboys and mspec lesbians have been here for decades (since AT LEAST the 70's) Read up on your queer history. We're not leaving this community.

[rouge-the-bat]

exclusionists be like "wOrDs HaVe DeFiNiTiOnS!!" like. seriously? youre going to pull the "definition" card when language is so fluid and made up that there literally exists contronyms, aka words that have developed to have two opposite meanings.

but things only have One Universal Definition and are totally static when it comes to identities for some reason???? 🙄

[badlydrawvnlittlecronus]

Do you have a favorite shark breed :)

lets see uhh great wvhite shark.... the hammer one uhhh oh wvhale shark wvhale sharks are cool

[ridibulous]

whart is a boy lesbian ?1

a lesbian who is also a boy! right on the tin

TO CLARIFY: this label is often used by various queer folk, such as transmascs who ID with the term lesbian, multigender people, and lesbians who simply feel happiest calling themselves boys, men, or male! to name only a few examples (because I couldn't possibly list them all)

I think contradictory labels are cool and awesome and swag and allows queer people to describe and label their various gender & orientation experiences in a way that makes them most comfortable.

[januscorner]

The weird thing about m-spec lesbian hate is that like, they’re still gay. Like people accuse others of not being queer all the time but this isn’t even that. You’re saying someone should kill themselves because you don’t like the word they’re using. What the hell

[sprnklersplashes]

I feel like as a general rule I will always be put off by the mentality of "this experience is a Totally Unique Experience which is only experienced by My Group and anyone outside of My Group who claims to have experienced this is Stealing or Did Not Experience It the way My Group did".