bilesproblems

[bilesproblems]

Just let bisexuals be lesbians

[bilesproblems]

No actually though, it's so funny how many exclusionists like you are under the impressions that bi lesbians... Don't identify as bi. If you believe us that we identify as lesbian, why do you feel the need to beat us over the head with "YOUR EXPERIENCE IS A BISEXUAL EXPERENCE" like most of us aren't also, simultaneously, fully identifying as bi in the same way we simultaneously, fully identify as lesbians? (Although some identify as partially one and partially the other, it's less common.)

Bi doesn't mean no preference - that's why lesbians who are attracted to multiple genders can call themselves bi lesbians even when they have a preference for women. They can just also identify as lesbians because their strong preference makes them feel like they're close to lesbianism or in between both. Like they're in this overlap. Show me a single bi lesbian who has said "bisexuality is always equal/lacks a preference."

Bi doesn't mean only binary attraction. That's why I, a lesbian who is attracted to everyone except for men, identify as bi. I just happen to also fit the commonly accepted definition of lesbian, which includes attraction to nonbinary people. You can't just say stuff like "um bisexual includes attraction to nonbinary people" as if that isn't The Point of us identifying as bi, and as if other exclusionists wouldn't debate you and say "actually, lesbian includes attraction to nonbinary people, and so bisexual cannot include attraction to nonbinary people unless it also includes attraction to both binary genders, because then that would validate bi lesbians and we can't allow that." Show me one bi lesbian who said that bisexuals are not attracted to nonbinary people.

Bi doesn't exclude trans people. If there is a single bi lesbian who calls themselves a bi lesbian because they are attracted to trans women and cis women, they're a transphobe and I don't support them in any way. If they call themselves a bi lesbian because they're attracted to all people except cisgender men, it is because you cannot separate heteronormativity from cisnormativity. Straight women are not expected to be attracted to trans men by heteronormative standards. By that virtue, these women are bisexual, but because they lack attraction to the sexgender class of people that they're expected to be attracted to, they could still count themselves as lesbian since they're only experiencing attraction to people they're not "supposed" to. I don't think everyone who's attracted to all people except cis men is a lesbian, but I do believe that it is a fair reason to feel like a lesbian if it's for the reason I stated above. It can be for transphobic reasons too, though usually those people wouldn't acknowledge they're also bi, but it is important, I think, to be aware of that and examine if the person says transandrophobic things or implies that trans men are not men, to determine if their identity is in good faith or not. That's the most credit I will give you.

Bi does include people who are attracted to men. That's why lesbians who are, in some way, attracted to men, identify as bi lesbians or another mspec lesbian label. Because they're bi/that mspec identity. Although a lot of queer people really treat bi women poorly for expressing attraction to men... Like they're faking being queer. I don't even have to tell you to go find me a bi lesbian who thinks bi doesn't include attraction to men because that's an impossibly dumb thing to think

For a lot of us, we are actually happy within the bi community, and we want to be happy in the lesbian community too. But for others, we're not, because of exclusionists. I am not "allowed" by most people to openly identify as bi, even though I am, because so many people will invalidate me because I am not attracted to men. Even though I am attracted to multiple genders, because only one of them is a binary gender, I am pushed out, because "that counts as lesbian!" Abrosexual bi lesbians are excluded from identifying as anything except abro. Biromantic lesbians and bisexual lesbians who use the SAM are excluded by proxy - too often, people use "I'm bi, but I'd never date a woman!" - the experience of a bi straight woman - as a stereotype of a biphobic straight women pretending to be bi. How do you think this would make a bi lesbian feel? If they'd never date a man, or if they'd never found a man attractive, they'd feel out of place in the bi community. If they tried to express this, they'd be called a fake bisexual, comparable to those straight women invading. Anti-SAM rhetoric makes bisexual and biromantic lesbians feel unsafe. Unwelcome. Invalidated. Because of people who simultaneously insist lesbians can't be bi, and that bi people must be attracted to men, I can't be happy in either community - I am only able to be happy in the mspec lesbian community. No one else will accept that me being attracted to nonbinary people makes me bi, and those who do, think lesbians are only attracted to women, and that it doesn't make me a lesbian. That's why some of us can't be happy in "our own community."

Why can’t bisexuals be happy in their own communities? Bi doesn’t mean no preference, it doesn’t mean only binary attraction, and it certainly doesn’t exclude trans people. It even includes people who are attracted to men. (Like, you know. Trans men. Who are men. Not Man Lite.)

No mspec lesbian has ever claimed any of these things

[bilesproblems]

On the note of nice messages: When I began calling myself a bi butch, I really struggeld with the label because I found a ton of posts that said I was not allowed to and so few that said it's okay. I spend hours searching for affirmation. I am better with this now and blogs like yours help me feel allowed to be me and to disturb those rules as I see fit. Thank you!

You're welcome! Bi butches are wonderful and I'm glad to have helped you too.

All of my followers are such lovely people I swear

[bilesproblems]

Hi!! Just wanted to say thank you for making this blog, Im an aroace omni lesbian and before I identified as one and when I was still very new to the queer community, Id seen posts talking about how lesbian and bisexual were mutually exclusive and bi lesbians werent valid because they made the communities look bad, and at the time I was like, huh, guess that sort of makes sense? But anyway my take away was bi lesbian = bad. Not that Ive ever done anything to support or spread this idea, Im very much mostly listening to others perspectives on both side before I can claim to have my own opinion on it and I never condone any type of infighting and discrimination, but it still stuck with me and influenced my own thought process when it came to my sexuality.

Recently Ive been questioning everything abt my gender and was feeling very dejected with all the binary trans discourse because my gender felt so contradictory and complex and it felt like people thought of it as inherently impossible/evil/invalid or otherwise the enemy. Ive talked to accepting and inclusive queer people who helped me understand how the contradictory labels aren't some evil thing to exterminate and helped me get rid of that shame + take pride in being a multigender genderqueer and blueberry bee transmascfem individual.

Ive gone looking through attraction labels to try and understand myself afterwards, and came across this blog. My attraction to people is very much on an aesthetic and sensual level, and I feel it is very strong when it comes to anyone who doesnt identify as a monogender binary man, whether trans or cis. So I feel like labels such as neptunic and lesbian fit very well for me, but I have a strong attachment to the omni label and I was doubting myself on whether I was allowed to use it at all or was doing something wrong. Omni for me describes the variety of non binary genders that exist and the fact that I love them all! But I thought I *had* to use poly since men werent included in this attraction (i think they arent? It's confusing but I think so)

Just writing to say, this is the first time I referred to myself as an omni lesbian and I love it!! I love it so much!! It brings me such joy and pride, so thank you, truly, from the bottom of my heart, for this whole blog and for explaining what bi lesbians are so thoughtfully and patiently, you helped me understand who I am and that I wasn't doing anything wrong by being me <3

I wish you all the best in life, lots of love <33

You are so sweet. I'm glad you have found who you are, and that you can feel happy with your identity. I'm glad I could have been a part of that and helped you make sense of your identity.

And not that you need my permission, approval, or validation, but I think it makes perfect sense to use omni, neptunic, and lesbian if you're attracted to everyone except monogender binary men. Because you both are and aren't attracted to men in that sense - the lack of attraction to monogender binary men would inherently make your experience closer to the exclusive lesbian experience since it would exclude most men, specifically those that the rest of the world views as men and expects women to be attracted to, but since nonbinary and multigender men are included, that technically counts as "all genders" so omni also.

With the recent uptick in hate anons, mostly from the same insane cyberstalker who was obsessed with me for a few weeks, this was really nice to see. The long rambles of how you identify and why my silly sideblog means something to you makes the bullshit worth it. I love the reminders that I mean something to people.

[bilesproblems]

Why can’t bisexuals be happy in their own communities? Bi doesn’t mean no preference, it doesn’t mean only binary attraction, and it certainly doesn’t exclude trans people. It even includes people who are attracted to men. (Like, you know. Trans men. Who are men. Not Man Lite.)

No mspec lesbian has ever claimed any of these things

[bilesproblems]

Hey guys I updated the definition of waxing gibbous to include mspecs with lesbian tertiary attraction

Lunian microlabels that I coined!

Lunian is an umbrella term for mspec lesbians, but that can mean different things to different people. Since the lunian flag and name were based off of the moon and the sea, I've created 6 tidal-based flags for different experiences! I will be creating bi/pan/poly/omni/abro variants too! Flags based on Kenochoric's Lunian flag!

#1: Full-Moon Springtide Lunian

[Image ID: A 5 striped flag modeled after the lunian flag by kenochoric. The top stripe is a deep navy blue; the second one down is a bright bluish indigo; the middle stripe is a light sky blue; the second to last stripe is a pale sea foam green; the bottom stripe is white. The flag on the left has a fade between the top two stripes and bottom two stripes. Both flags have blue full moons. End ID.]

Meaning: A lunian who considers themselves lunian because they're attracted to multiple genders that are considered part of lesbian attraction! Ex: wlw and wlnb. I, OP, am a Full-moon springtide lunian!

#2: First-Quarter Neaptide Lunian

[Image ID: A 5 striped flag modeled after the lunian flag by kenochoric. The top stripe is a deep navy blue; the second one down is indigo; the middle stripe is a deep sky blue; the second to last stripe is a bright aqua green. The bottom stripe is a pale sea foam green. The flag on the left has a fade between the top two stripes and bottom two stripes. Both flags have blue half moons, with the left half being obscured by shadow. End ID.]

Meaning: A lunian who considers themselves lunian because they are mspec, but their attraction to genders considered part of lesbian attraction is much greater than their attraction to other genders, and as such they feel somewhere in between mspec and lesbian; using lunian as an alternative to homoflexible or lesbiflexible

#3: New-Moon Springtide Lunian

[Image ID: A 5 striped flag modeled after the lunian flag by kenochoric. The top stripe is a deep, dark violet; the second one down is a slightly lighter shade; the middle stripe is a slightly dark periwinkle; the second to last stripe is between turquoise and blue. The bottom stripe is a bright sea foam green. The flag on the left has a fade between the top two stripes and bottom two stripes. Both flags have blue half moons, with the right half being obscured by shadow. End ID.]

Meaning: A lunian who considers themselves lunian because they use the split attraction model, and are lesbian in one form of attraction and mspec in another.

#4: Third-Quarter Neaptide Lunian

[Image ID: A 5 striped flag modeled after the lunian flag by kenochoric. The top stripe is a deep, dark violet; the second one down is a slightly lighter shade; the middle stripe is sky blue; the second to last stripe is a desaturated light blue. The bottom stripe is a very pale blue. The flag on the left has a fade between the top two stripes and bottom two stripes. Both flags have blue new moons. End ID.]

Meaning: A lunian who considers themselves lunian because they are mspec, and are reclaiming the historical definition of lesbian!

#5: Tidalphasic Lunian

[Image ID: The original lunian flag by kenochoric with its dark purple top stripe, purple second stripe, desaturated sky blue middle stripe, bright aqua green second to last stripe, and bottom pale green stripe, with an overlay of 4 blue moons in a small arc. From left to right, they are a full moon, a half moon with left side shadow, a new moon, and a half moon with right side shadow. The left flag also has a fade between the top two stripes and bottom two stripes. End ID.]

Meaning: A lunian who's reason for identifying as lunian is fluid and changes. They go through the many phases of possibilities just like the moon and tide!

#6: Midtide Lunian

[Image ID: A 5 striped flag modeled after the lunian flag by kenochoric. The top stripe is a deep navy blue; the second one down is purple; the middle stripe is a slightly dark periwinkle; the second to last stripe is a deep turquoise; the bottom stripe is a pale aqua blue. The flag on the left has a fade between the top two stripes and bottom two stripes. Both flags have blue crescent moons. End ID.]

Meaning: A lunian who's experience as a lunian was not covered by this post, or a lunian who's experience as a lunian is a mix of the labels here. You are all valid lunians but I don't know every way to be a lunian! Just like the tide, lunian experiences aren't rigid and there are times you are in between two.

Have a lovely day all lunians and please feel free to coin tidal terms for your experience if it wasn't given its own label here!

[Image ID: A reddish brown image bordered with the aurora lesbian, lunian, bi lesbian, and omni lesbian flags. There's an illustration of a calico cat and text that reads "PLEASE: •Check my pinned before following •DNI: Pedos, zoos, people seeking discourse, solicitors, and anyone seeking a relationship with me." End ID.]

[bilesproblems]

You don't even have to try

It is painfully easy to get an exclusionist to admit that they just think non binary people are woman-lite

[bilesproblems]

the return of the "bi lesbian" label from ancient <lesbian history> is good. here's why:

many people feel happy with that label combo for their own experiences within lesbianism and bisexuality.

it inherently hands sapphic bisexuality the right to coexist with its own history

it pisses off terfs and THOSE rad'fem's

happy final days of this year's pride month. remember that bisexuality is and will always be a part of multiple queer subcommunities, and it does not mean "liking both" (unlike what many queer exclusionists think). be you

🧡💛🤍🩷❤️💜💙

[bilesproblems]

Hi! I'm so sorry you have such ridiculous asks in your inbox.

I'm a lesbian who is a man and a woman who is gay and all the things inbetween that, I am bigender and bisexual and a bi lesbian. I don't hurt anyone. I am freeing myself.

What does it matter that I "got" these on tumblr? Breaking gender apart doean't stop at attraction or the lack thereof. You'd still use the gender-bible, in a very real world bible way tbh.

Anon, I have homework for you!

1) Do we apply this exclusivity logic to all terms or only to lesbian?

2) If yes, why? If not, why is lesbian so sacred?

2.1) Has it something to do with the "sacrecy" of women? Do women have to be protected?

3) Are you scared of the imaginery strawman that is a predadory man? Someone who's out there, pretending to be a lesbian so he gets a woman? A woman who apparently has no free will if she wants to sleep with him?

4) Is this terf ideology maybe?

Please reflect them for yourself and ponder about them for a few days. Thank you!

I will say number 3 does happen, I've seen it, but it's never someone outwardly using contradictory labels like lesboy or gaybian. They pretend to be she/her binary women. The openly male lesbians aren't hiding anything

[bilesproblems]

“I see you exclude all nonbinary people from lesbian attraction” and the Scholastic Literary Shame Award for Not Being Able to Fucking Read goes tooooo (try again, I’ll even hold your hand this time: men aren’t lesbians. Lesbians aren’t men. People who ID as men can and do have complex queer identities and genders. Lesbians can and do have complex relationships with gender. They, however, are not men. Lesbian is an exclusive term for people who are not men exclusively wanting relationships with other people who are not men. [nowhere in there does it say NB people can’t be lesbians.] It’s language meant to convey something complex quickly. People of more than one gender experiencing more than one direction of attraction I wish you a very Embrace Bisexuality)

You said it was lesbophobic to imply that lesbians could be ATTRACTED to ANYONE who isn't a WOMAN. You know some people are not women AND are not men in any capacity? Is lesbian exclusive attraction to women or exclusive attraction to anyone who isn't a man? Those are two different statements and to imply they are in any way equivalent is exorsexism.

As you quoted, I said "lesbian attraction." Meaning, you think lesbians can't be attracted to nonbinary people, not that you think lesbians can't be nonbinary. Maybe you're the one who needs to learn how to read because it's a mixup that's impossible to make, given the context of the previous ask, without either genuinely being illiterate or intentionally pretending that I said something that I didn't.

On top of that, "embrace bisexuality" is such a stupid thing to say to people who call ourselves BISEXUAL lesbians. BISEXUAL. or BIROMANTIC lesbians. Or BI anything at all lesbians. I embraced biromanticism and your kind wants to take it away from me because my biromanticism excludes men entirely.

Anyways I left that in my inbox to rot for like 3 weeks and you immediately responded. It's anon so you're not getting fucking notified. You're literally an insane cyberstalker. Get a life oh my god. This is the single most pathetic thing I've ever witnessed. I'm not responding to you again. The next bullshit you hack up and barf into my inbox is getting blackout poetry'd

[bilesproblems]

Someone’s mad they have to address their internal biases. Be more obvious everything you know about the lesbian community is from tumblr dot com instead of talking to real life lesbians, let alone a single older lesbian. The vast majority would look at you like you were ridiculous for saying they can be attracted to people who don’t identify as women (since semantics is clearly what matters to you). Cis men, NB men, genderfluid people who identify as men, and trans men cannot be Lesbians. I focused on men because there are nonbinary lesbians and genderfluid people who are not men are people who exist and are lesbians? Though I didn’t think I needed to spell that out to you. I get that your stance is “everyone should do what they want forever” but that’s actually more harmful than you realize. I understand your argument is that “we’re not responsible for other people’s bad faith interpretations” but at what point do you ask “is this being individualistic and selfish at the sake of a community with history? Or is my identity more important than everyone else?” Anyway saying lesbians can be attracted to people who don’t identify as women is old-fashioned lesbophobia and I hope you fix your heart.

This has been sitting in my inbox for a while but okay. I see you exclude all nonbinary people from lesbian attraction which is exorsexism so your opinion is immediately invalid.

[bilesproblems]

if bi lesbian is not a unique combination of words then neither is nonman or nonwomen

Nobody said it was. That's why YOU are allowed to identify as a nonman or a nonwoman, or define YOUR lesbian orientation with nmlnm. If they were considered unique terms, we'd be told white people should not use them to describe themselves. But they aren't unique, so it's fine to personally identify with them. What's NOT okay is enforcing those terms in the definitions of gay and lesbian when they had been popularly used to describe the way black people are degendered. You can't compare me combining two words together because I think they equally describe the experience of being attracted to everyone except men, to forcing other people to use words to define themselves and telling them that their identity isn't valid if it doesn't conform to a definition that uses those words. You are not being forced to identify as a bi lesbian, but you are forcing black lesbians to identify as nonmen who love nonmen. You're forcing black lesbians to identify with terms that described how they were degendered, essentially forcing them to degender themselves.

[bilesproblems]

I am literally fucking BEGGING you all to also acknowledge the racism behind the terms "non-man" and "non-woman" and how they're used in queer definitions.

Black and Indigenous queer people have literally been talking about this since the definition was COINED but there's literally NO acknowledgement of this when pointing out why "non-men loving non-men" and "non-women loving non-women" are shitty fucking definitions to force on a whole community.

"Nonman" and "nonwoman" are terms that have been historically used to describe the degendering of black people in society. And words can obviously be used to mean different things- we don't have to stop using these terms altogether. But forcing these terms on a whole community of queer people is really fucking antiblack.

Not to mention that it blatantly degenders a lot of 2S lesbians and gays as well. It basically tells them that they can't be 2S and as a lesbian or gay at the same time, because then they would be "contradictory." I seriously hope I don't have to explain how racist it is to exclude a large portion of Two-Spirit people from your queer label because they don't fit into your neat little white gender binary.

Like these definitions aren't bad to use for yourself personally- but stop forcing them on all lesbians/gays. And if you're advocating for why these shouldn't be used as the most prominent definition, PLEASE acknowledge the racism aspect of it.

[bilesproblems]

It's Juneteenth, so I'd like to once again remind everyone that the enforcement of "nonmen loving nonmen" onto the entirety of the lesbian community and conversely the enforcement of "nonwomen loving nonwomen" on the veldian community is antiblack.

Those terms had been used to describe the degendering of Black people. And while personally defining yourself with those terms is fine, enforcing it on an entire community was so racist. Black lesbians & gays opposed this initially for that very reason. So, while exclusionists love to throw in the word "white" and assume everyone's race, Black mspec lesbians and Black lesboys exist and you can't force them to conform to a definition that's enforcement is racist

[bilesproblems]

you gotta be so okay with lesbians you meet offline not understanding or validating your identity. lesbians don’t like men and if you tell an old butch you meet at the coffee shop that “actually they can” you gotta be okay with LARGE groups of people feeling unsafe around you.

If you feel unsafe because I said people who liked men could identify as lesbians then that's your problem and not mine. I, as a lesbian who has never been attracted to a man and never will be, do not feel unsafe letting people who like men into the same community. Because they are no more dangerous than people who don't like men. This is biphobia in the most literal meaning of the word. You're so scared of being around bisexual people that you totally missed the part where my bisexuality excludes attraction to men. And that's entirely your fault and not mine.

[bilesproblems]

I feel like unfortunately what causes misunderstanding is when affirmative phrases are technically backwards. "Lesbians can like men" really means "people who like men can be lesbians" and not that anyone who's a lesbian is capable of liking men. "Asexuals can have sex" actually means "people who have sex can be asexual" and not that every asexual person can tolerate sex or will have sex. "Trans people don't have to transition" means people who haven't transitioned yet or won't transition ever can identify as trans not that all trans people don't have to transition (since for many trans people it's absolutely a need."

This is in response to this anon who's been going around saying mspec lesbians make other lesbians feel unsafe because we "insist [they] can be attracted to men" cheryl no one said you could. I can't myself. Sorry the statement is backwards, it just sounds better that way. We all believe you about your lack of attraction and there isn't anyone who simultaneously doesn't believe you AND knows what a bi lesbian is

[bilesproblems]

I think it is important to say that "I'm bisexual but I'd never date a woman" is valid, the "eww" is added on as a straw man. Some bisexual people would never date a woman and they are not less bisexual. They could be attracted to men and nonbinary people but not women, they could be bisexual and heteromantic or homoromantic. That's a valid way to be mspec and mono and the invalidation of bisexual people who aren't biromantic is still biphobia

Hi! Genuine person trying to understand here! Can you explain how mono mspecs identify? I know it's probably not the same as those people who are like "I'm bisexual but id never date a woman eww" but thats what my brain is defaulting to and I'd like to understand it more so it stops doing that ToT I assume its similar to mspec monos but I'd really like to hear more about this pls :)

Well I wrote mono mspec as the same as mspec mono..is there a difference? Probably not I think. But fluid sexuality with mspsc monos is one way, and I think preference is also a way, I've had a ask that was someone who dated a woman after identifying as gay for a while and still used it as well as bisexuality (or omni, I can't remember) or being attracted to multigender people that they count as mspec but still identity with that mono label, like a bi lesbian attracted to mostly women but also multigender men, who could be like a man and woman.