#exclusionist

[certified-moth]

the most common trait i see in aro/ace exclusionists is the fact that they treat aspec identities as neutral. like any other part of someones identity immediately wins out. if an aro person is sexually attracted to men, that attraction is the determining factor in if they are queer. theres just a total refusal to imagine that aromantic and asexual experiences are a major determining factor in the way we experience life

i think it just goes to show how little some people are willing to engage with a variety of aro and ace people and understand how they experience the world. lack of attraction is not neutral, our entire world is shaped around romantic and sexual attraction and relationships. i think a lot of them would genuinely be surprised at how similar gay and aspec experiences can be if they were willing to actually listen to us

[everyponie]

exclusionists are no better than the LGB without the T alliance. Yall are cousins. You go hand in hand.

[jennygeistvids]

Sooo, potentially risking a nuclear bomb by posting this here, but fuck it. I did a video about 2016-2020 era "Ace Discourse," how awful and toxic it got, and how modern day LGBTQ debates are often just repeats of the same tired arguments. Let's all learn about it so we can know never to do it again. 😬

[cakevsdragonicons]

Anya from Mouthwashing is a space aroace!

Requested by @babycharmander

[lust-for-ultraviolence]

Transmedicalism is the idea that being transgender is primarily a medical issue related to the incongruence between an individual's assigned sex at birth and their gender identity, characterized by gender dysphori.Many transmedicalists believe individuals who identify as transgender without experiencing gender dysphoria or desiring to undergo a medical transition through methods such as hormone replacement therapy or sex reassignment surgery are not genuinely transgender.They may also exclude those who identify themselves as non-binary from the trans label.

Exclusionist is someone who attempts to gatekeep the LGBT+ community by claiming that certain groups aren't "really" LGBT+ based on their own definition.

Example, asexual people are not lgbt for being asexual, they must be either trans or homo/bi-romantic. A cis het ace is not welcomed into the community. They also usually believe pansexual is a transphobic version of bisexual.

These are shortened definitions.

If this poll causes too much trouble, I’ll delete it.

[0w0tsuki]

You wanna know what fucking sucks about the trans andro crowd? You know besides the fact that all it takes is a transfem breathing the wrong direction at them for them to call her a Terf. The fact that they have the SHEER GAUL to claim it is in the name of TransUnity.

You wanna know what trans unity was? It was a term created for us to rally around when this tide of genocidal legislation started rising. To gather around and show SUPPORT for one another. To mobilize and RESIST this wave of hatred.

And tbros saw this as a very convenient shield, an uno reverse card, something to accuse other people of being against when they themselves aren't performing it. If you call them out on their infighting and punching across they will use the very fact that your criticizing them of this to argue that actually? NO! YOUR infighting!

None of these tbros are going in counter protest to ACTUAL Terf rallies. They aren't spreading donation posts. They aren't talking about news about daily anti-trans laws being put forth and trying to resist them. No. They spend their whole time trying to Gotcha! Trans women.

You know what people interested in ACTUAL TransUnity don't do? We don't have our top blog actively promote a blog dedicated to block evading (while simultaneously blocking out all criticism) to grab full username screenshots of trans folks they want to witch hunt and put them next to hate anons from feds calling them shit like zipper tits in order to whip up their audience to either sent hate or to EXCLUDE THEM. Like actually patting themselves on the back that they got swaths of the community to denounce and exclude us. All while trying to claim it's not transmisoginistic because they're MAINLY targeting other transmen. You know. Those trans men who said "actually that's kinda fucked up. I'ma actually stand in solidarity with my sisters" who were immediately branded as traitors by them. DEFINITELY not an attempt to separate us from the few allies we have while simultaneously telling those in your community "THIS is what happens if you stand against us!"

They don't "joke" about their group chat of Transandrophobia truthers that have been called transmisoginsts so many times that they see calling themselves that as an inside joke signalling each other to swarms posts about transmisoginy.

They don't purposely form insular communities where the only transfems allowed are those who sign at the gate they agree to every single say and they have social clout within that circle for organizing it. They don't try to USE said clout to try and redefine the TERF for these people in a way that would give them the position to call transfems TERFs (which they themselves admit to being a former member of).

And they don't try to discredit and not read arguments from the other side by screenshoting their bios to see if there's anything that they can point out that in their opinion shouldn't be listened to in the first place from "oh she's a white uwu cat girl" to "oh she's a bi lesbian". For all of the hand wringing that the trans andro crowd goes on about how "everyone listens to trans women over trans men and we just get ignored" they CERTAINLY don't have ANY interest in actually listening to trans women. There are no attempts at appeals to our arguments. No "I can see why trans women feel this way and I want to acknowledge their oppression while still advocating for mine" just "oh so you just hate trans men". No attempts at actual UNDERSTANDING trans women who feel hurt by their actions.

Your telling me the crowd who so ADAMANTLY opposed the terms transmisoginy and tme/tma in the first place. Who viewed every post of transfems complaining about the intracommunity oppression they felt as a personal attack on them. Your telling me these people should be given the benefit of the doubt when they try to argue for their own term which is DEFINITELY not reactionary to transmisoginy.

Your going to tell me the crowd that has convinced themselves that they are in a subculture war against transfems have their hearts in the right place and are trying to bring the community together when they are actively working to exclude transfems and their allies from the queer community?

Yall should find FUCKING APPALLING these people who've only ever acted like exclusionary bullies about their politics take a term that was supposed to be a rallying cry for trans people and turn it into the "so much for the tolerant left" but for the queer community, to demand all of the patience and consideration in the world while giving none. I don't even have to argue against their theory. Their actions speak louder than words.

[scretladyspider]

you aren't ace. and you don't need to "go" anywhere. you don't need a community for wanting to have sex. you are an average, typical person. congrats.

don’t hate to tell you this: you don’t get to decide the validity of anyone’s sexual orientation or experiences but your own. bye!

[asynca]

an exclusionist clowned on one of my posts and reminded me what miserable shitty people they can be

[d-parade]

i’ll say this every single time i get the chance to:

there should be a distinction between transsex(uals) and transgenders due to the fundamental existence of sex dysphoria that separates these two

“innate vs extrinsic” should not be classified together and treated the same

thank you

[foxfairy06]

Hi, only wanted to ask about xenogenders: why do exclusionists think they aren't valid? Just curious

Thanks for this blog btw, one of my favs now :)

First off, let's talk about their history. They were coined by a cis, neurotypical woman who posed as a trans woman online. She basically insinuates that neurodivergent people can't understand what gender is. Which, yikes. Throughout the entire history of them, it's been said that it's "for neurodivergent people who have a hard time understanding social constructs like gender" (which I'll address later in this post), or "for neurodivergent people who have a hard time understanding their feelings, so they describe the way their gender feels like light and fluffy like a cloud, or angry and soft like an angry cat.". The problem with this, it infantiles neurodivergent people.

Which is fine when it's coming from someone who actually is speaking for themself. Neurodivergent people who experience something that does cause them to not be able to do something are allowed to convey that they can't do those things, and they are not infantilising anyone, and they are not putting neurodivergent people down. Having a disability is having a disability, it isn't good or bad, and it's wrong to act like someone with a disability can do anything. It's wrong to place expectations on disabled people they can't live up to, and when a disabled person can't do something, don't act like they're making a biased judgement about disabled people because they aren't. I can't just stop ticking, and my tics extend to affect more of my life than just my tics. My ADHD "infantiles" me in some ways, and there is nothing wrong with that, and don't expect me to be able to exist in the same way as a neurotypical person.

HOWEVER, the majority of people who label themselves with xenogenders are neurotypical or self diagnosed. They do not have the ability to speak on neurodivergence correctly. They just don't. They don't have the tools. They don't have the experiences. They don't have the time in therapy. They don't have the education. They are using neurodivergents as a scapegoat and in the process insisting that there is something so fundamental that we simply cannot understand. They are speaking for us, and have created false information about a group they can't speak for.

Now for the science.

Gender isn't a social construct. At least not in any way that is compatible with the concept of xenogenders.

• Gender in the terms of *gender studies* which was formed in the soft science of *sociology*, describes the expectations, performances, and roles associated with being a male, and a female. In this theory, a social man is someone who is masculine and a social woman is someone who is feminine. In this theory, these are learned behaviors enforced by society. Men are masculine, they're strong. They hunt, they have no feelings other than anger. Women are caring and nice and they cross their legs when they sit. Obviously this is not applicable to individuals. Because obviously most people don't fit into these definitions. This concept of social gender is useless for labeling an individual as a man or a woman. It's bunk. It's accurate for how society treats people though. Xenogenders do not have any socially ascribed behaviors, expectations, or roles. Therefore under the tucute definition of gender "gender is a social construct", aka gender theory, xenogenders are not genders. Some people could argue that "well my learned behaviors are light and fluffy like a cloud", that still doesn't mean that society perceives you as cloud-like or that your learned behaviors are similar to that of a cloud. It also doesn't have anything to do with the sexes, and therefore isn't compatible with this theory.

• Gender in terms of what we identify with is a different thing entirely, and is a neurological and psychological map of your sex characteristics. Someone who individually is a man identifies with a body that is entirely categorizable within male range, and someone that is a woman is someone with an identified body that is entirely categorizable within female range. Someone who is nonbinary, (nullsex or on the duosex spectrum), is someone who's identified body doesn't fit within those ranges. Gender is different from the "gender" represented in gender theory. This is because a man can look, act, sound, think, and express in the ways typically associated with women and still be a man. Even if he's trans. The social ascriptions to gender are meaningless, and gender itself is not. Xenogenders do not reflect any gender identity. They are not correspondent to an individuals understanding of their own body, and not equatable to transness or nonbinarism. They're a self-chosen label that bares no meaning. They represent nothing real.

Ultimately if someone wants to call themselves catgender, ok i guess I can't stop them and I'm not going to be a dick about it but I'm also not going to sit around and pretend like it holds any water or means anything.

[sothisistheweightofcreation]

on a related note, whats the point of ace/mspec/mogai/polyam exclusionism, politically? like whats the end goal? how will it materially benefit the queer people you're supportive of?

ive seen exclusionists say they don't bring their beliefs up when organising irl, because it would distract from the actual political work they're doing. and at that point I'm like, well. it they're irrelevant or even counter-productive, why continue to hold these beliefs? what do they do for the people around you?

[certified-moth]

Do you think people think "woman" is a neutral identify if they only think her lesbianism makes her queer and not her womannesss?

Like, uh, yeah, dumb ass, queer identities are only based in queerness. If you are not attracted to the same gender or trans, your identities are not queer. They do not impact your role in the LGBT community. A straight man who is cis but does not feel sexual desire is not queer. A cis straight kinky man isn't queer either. There's no identity identity you can give a cisgender, straight person or cisgender aroace person that would make them LGBT.

i think youre misinterpreting what i said. i dont think smth that doesnt contribute to someones queerness is neutral. i wasnt implying any part of anyones identity is neutral, i was noting that the treatment of aro and ace identities as neutral is a common belief in exclusionists. by that i mean that they are ignored as a factor impacting the lives of an individual. they are treated as having no meaningful impact on the persons sexuality, and that the only impact comes from the attraction present.

youre trying to define an example of queerness that i just dont agree with. the idea that same sex attraction is necessary is just kinda an arbitrary rule you believe in. I would personally say that the main connecting factor of the LGBT community is the way our identities have shaped the way we experience the world in comparison to cishet people.

i do actually think a heteroromantic asexual cis guy is LGBT if thats how he chooses to define his identity. Like i briefly mentioned in my post, our world is shaped around relationships. there are legal benefits to relationships. they are treated as a given expectation. to not experience sexual attraction greatly changes the way you experience relationships, as well as the way society treats you.

your entire argument just proves the point of my post. you view aromanticity and asexuality as inherently neutral, providing no experiences that could connect to queer experiences. You treat them as if they are just basically straight. but all the aro and/or ace people i have personally interacted with have far more in common experience-wise with queer experiences than they do with straight ones

(also i never brought up kink, i dont believe kink is inherently queer. im not sure but it kinda feels like you are conflating a sexual orientation and a sexual preference)

[virovirokun-has-adhd]

By applying a set of strict rules that cannot be broken to a label and inforcing them to the point of calling someone invalid if they don't comply, this is called label policing and is an exclusionist & bigotry behaviour.

[catsnakes]

Love seeing posts of people being like “those evil exclusionists who are against radical identities such as ‘bi lesbian’ are just conformist who are deepthroating cishet boot” Like you’re so smart, homophobic cishets would hate it if lesbians slept with men, people who hate lesbians definitely don’t want lesbians to fuck men. That would be abhorrent to them

[cakevsdragonicons]

Anya from Mouthwashing is a space aroace!

Requested by @babycharmander

[everyponie]

I think its very strange and weird that people will put so much anger and effort into hating bisexual lesbians and lesboys but will be completely silent on the genocide in Palestine. Why are people attacking innocent queer people when they could be putting this effort and anger into advocating for change? Redirect your anger to the right places. There are much bigger issues in the world right now. Innocent people are being slaughtered. Stop focusing on useless queer discourse and actually do something useful.