#octavia defender

[almacambiondaughterofsaleos]

Just Like Her Pet Character, Vivizepop Doesn't Keep Her Promises And Still Expects People To be Patient With Her

Don't keep promises you can't keep or people won't expect anything but disappointment you once again let them down. Seriously, "Seeing Stars" could be a representation of everything about Vivziepop's promises to her fandom and how they expect her to keep her end and have a message hammered they just have to be patient and she's doing her best. However, it becomes more evident like with Stolas she is doing jack crap and has excuses after excuses for why she's telling us one thing and ends up doing another. She ends up being unreliable like Stolas is to Geotia despite telling her he loves him and puts her off so much because of his stupid crush.

[stolitzsings]

Maybe this is obvious, but I feel like it's important to remember that Via is just as sheltered as Stolas has been, with regard to the outside world.

Like, it's very clear from Sinsmas that Stolas had no idea how non-royals live. If you asked him before Mastermind, I doubt he could have envisioned a life for himself outside of the palace walls.

So of course Via is having trouble envisioning herself in Stolas’s life now! She doesn't know how incredibly inhospitable Stolas’s existence in the palace was, and she doesn't understand that his only chance to truly live is outside those confines.

The palace is all she's ever known; to her, that is life, and Stolas removing himself from that sphere is synonymous with leaving her behind. Unlike Blitz, she simply can't fathom a life that looks so, so different from what she's always had.

Stolas did his utmost to provide her with stability throughout her childhood, even at the cost of his happiness and her understanding. Of course she feels like her whole world is crumbling right now, and all she can see is that Stolas, who had been that pillar of stability for her for so long, has let go.

I'm not saying Stolas never did anything wrong, or that Via’s feelings are unjustified. They're both in such difficult, painful positions right now and will have to work hard to understand each other, and that is such an exciting thing to look forward to in the rest of the show

[autisticblitz]

they could never make me hate you, Octavia..

[spicylove4ever]

Was this the moment he realized he was not going to see his daughter again?

[theadhddimsenion]

You know something I find ironic about stella defenders and vivis critics? They love to talk a lot of shit about how bad vivi supposedly is at representing male victims of abuse all while defending and regurgitating arguments that are used to condemn and vilify male victims and defended his abuser!!!!

"Cheating is bad!! So stolas is bad!! And they just want to silence us into thinking that this is ok!!!!" No you brain dead peon! Cheating isn't always universally bad especially when it's been on someone who has done nothing but abuse them and actively talked shit about their performance as a way of disrespecting them!! And let's be very clear the only reason stella was upset is because it was an imp and stolas had finally gotten the Courage to stand up to her!!! And let's not forget that stella had been treating him like crap for years before this happened!

"He's a bad father!!" No he's not he's a struggling father. Neither he nor his daughter are bad people and neither of them deserved to be in the situation they were in. Should he have paid more attention to octiava yes. Is he a bad person and never cared about her because he didn't? Fuck no!! He messed up and he suffered the consequences and is trying to learn to better what more can you honestly ask if someone!?

"He's shouldn't have saved blitz because that showed octativa he was willing to die without caring about her!" Bull. Fucking. Shit!!!! How the fuck was he supposed to make a life or death descion and think about every possible situation this could result in when he had about 12 seconds to make sure the love of his life's head didn't go fucking choppy choppy!!!

"He's a coercive rapist reeeeee!!!" Look pal that agurment relies on a lot if's when it comes to bltizs ability to find a alternative means of getting to the human world so this argument is flimsy and relies on circumstances and speculation at best and is outright bullshit at worst. Even if this so called argument had any real validity then it should be clear to anyone with any brain power whatsoever that stolas never meant to coerce anyone!

"He is evil blueblood and deserves the guillotine" no stolas is as bout as much of a noble prick as a thumbtack and he had never once intentionally looked down on anyone and when he did it was never hateful it was simply out of ignorance unlike his wife who you constantly defend!

"Stella was made evil to justify his actions!" No you fools she was clearly always going to be a villain and contrary to what your pitiful Brains think females don't need to be sympathic or even competent and vivi isn't sexist for writing stella this way and for what it's worth I think stella serves her role quite well.

[daddyhoothoot]

“Stolas is a bad parent”

“Stolas isn’t good to Via”

LITERALLY WHERE?!

Have you all forgotten this scene exists??? He stayed in an abusive marriage for almost two decades (that’s almost 20 years btw because apparently all you Stolas antis are idiots) FOR HER!

“He didn’t listen to her at Loo Loo Land!”

They literally talked and he acknowledged his mistakes and she forgave him! They’re literally both smiling and hugging at the end!

“He ignored her in Seeing Stars!”

HE WAS ON THE PHONE WITH STELLA WHO WAS YELLING ABUSE AT HIM THE ENTIRE TIME HE WAS TRYING TO MOVE HER SHIT OUT OF THE PALACE.

Instead of Octavia communicating about what day it was, she stormed off which is FINE because she’s a teenager but if she had only been like, hey dad today is the day we were supposed to go look at the stars. He would have dropped everything without question. You really think he would choose a day bonding with his daughter over Stella? Absolutely not.

He scoured a foreign city all day looking for her. Once he found out why she ran, he apologized profusely and she instantly forgave him.

And that’s it! That’s all we’ve gotten so far of their relationship so please explain how Stolas is a bad father within the context of the show.

To expect Stolas to never fuck up in anyway is crazy. He has so much of his own trauma and never had a father figure to look up to, Paimon was a piece of shit. He’s clearly trying his best and maybe his best isn’t always good enough but calling him a bad father is honestly outrageous. Calling anyone perfect is outrageous. Everyone fucks up but what proves their character is how they learn and grow from the mistakes they make and clearly Stolas is doing both of those things.

If you don’t like Stolas, whatever, that’s your prerogative (I don’t understand but it’s your life) but you can’t deny that Stolas is a good father because he is always trying to improve and grow and only good people do that.

I rest my case.

[angelshizuka]

Friendly reminder that Stolas was prepared to stand up for Blitz at Ozzie's. It wasn't until HE got called out and put on the spot, for HIS own insecurties and he became embarrassed of HIMSELF that he hid his face, that made Blitz (understandably) THINK it was him Stolas was embarrassed of.

Like, Blitz's entire arc regarding his relationship to Stolas is about learning to see his "humanity" (for lack of a better term, since they're demons) behind the mask he's got on thanks to his royal status, but some of y'all still judge him like he's an emotionless prince who magically has it all togther.

[marrowcreations]

A different way to write Stella to explain her hatred of Stolas and indifference of Octavia:

(Warning not good just putting down ideas)

Context, this would be Stella saying this to Stolas in a fight after he confronts her about her attitude towards Octavia

“Hate her? Of COURSE I hate her! She’s a living breathing reminder of why I! DONT! MATTER! The moment she was born was the moment my life stop having value. My WHOLE LIFE EVERYONE TOLD ME THAT ALL I MATTERED FOR WAS TO GIVE TO AN HEIR TO YOU.

How was I supposed to love her when every time I look at her all I see is how the ONE REASON I EXIST FOR IS DONE. MY WHOLE LIFES PURPOSE IS OVER. You already have an heir but IM STILL HERE AND I DONT HAVE ANYTHING LEFT.

(I’d imagine her at the point of tears by now but being to proud to left them fall from her eyes. This whole thing would be animated and delivered in her usually screeching tone as well)

And you. You always go on about how you tried to make things so much better, poor you poor Stolas who’s life actually matters to the rest of the Goetia beyond the moment an heir is produced. Poor Prince Stolas with his mansion and influence and wealth and reason to exit that HE WONT EVEN ATTEND TO BECAUSE HES TOO BUSY FUCKING AROUND WITH SOME IMP.”

Essentially in this AU she’d still be sort of insufferable and cruel to Stolas but I’m not sure if it’d be to the level of being abuse. I can tell you that I’d place this where the canon confrontation with Stella is in The Circus. Also she wouldn’t dare a put a hand on Stolas or threaten him with Andy. What is a Marquis compare to a Prince? He is nothing.

Essentially since the Circus is a backstory episode it would show that Stella despises Stolas for these reasons

Stolas has a position within the Goetia. His life matters for more than just an heir and it will never stop mattering for as long as he’s alive to preform his duty. This is a contrast against Stella who stopped mattering the moment Octavia existed as she fulfilled her purpose.

Stolas has power. Don’t you think there’s a reason she never displayed any? She should’ve been born like Andrelphus at least a Marquise but she can hardly be considered a Goetia.

Stolas chose to very publicly cheat on her. This matters because her only role within the Goetia is to sleep with him. If she can’t do that and Octavia is already born she will be completely obsolete. To Stella this was a direct insult by Stolas because to her it was saying he’d rather sleep with the lowest class than her. That she can’t even complete the one reason she exists for.

This needs fleshing out but it’s the only way I could think to write that take her from psycho abuser to something closer to a round character

[listlesscatpotato]

Octavia is acting like a spoiled brat, I don't understand why people are so bent on defending her.

The girl is faulting her father for escaping an abusive relationship. I don't understand how I'm supposed to like her when she hates her father for trying to be happy. In any other media, a character who faults a victim for escaping an abusive relationship would be universally hated, why does it matter that she's his daughter? Should he just be miserable forever, so she can have both parents together?

[crenmir]

NEVER DELETING TWITTER DJDKDJDK

[yasmiralotta]

What the hell did I just read?

I don't know how to break this down honestly. Like, everyone has their own interpetation of things but...This would only work in a Au were Stolas and Stella switched places, because this would never happen in canon and is so out of ooc it's not even funny...

[almacambiondaughterofsaleos]

Hey, Boneheads We Didn't See Him Contact Her

Seriously, these boneheads first say Octavia doesn't need to be contacted because it would distress her or that's she's old enough but now they blame her for not checking on her dad even though he contacted his booty call before her. Again and we are supposed to believe he's a flawed dad who ultimately loves his daughter. Give me a break these Stolas stans want him to be so innocent that they will blame his daughter any perceived wrong so they can baby their precious owl.

[sludgekludge]

What's your thoughts on Octavia?

she sure does exist

ok real talk, she's inoffensive, but not really a character archetype i care for, the moody goth teenager. i don't hate her though and her situation strikes a chord. brandon (i believe? correct me if im wrong) calling her a cockblocking bitch or whatever was like. kind of insane and offputting. she's in a really sad situation with a shitty dad but the narrative is so determined to defend stolas over everything and now she's in the wrong for being upset over it? gonna use this to jump off and ramble about stolas abandoning his daughter at every turn because i don't really have much to say about via on her own and i've wanted to complain about this like, forever

like 'stolas is a good dad!' when he:

actively has an open affair in front of her that seems to have kickstarted constant fighting between her parents. stolas does not seem to comfort or communicate with octavia over this whatsoever until she literally runs off crying over it in loo-loo land. even then, he's still fixated on specifically blitz protecting him. go look after your fucking daughter instead of whining about the bodyguard you don't need, dude.

tangentially, invites his affair partner (a stranger that is playing a part in actively disrupting octavia's life and relationship with her father) to what is meant to be a daddy-daughter day (ignores the fact she's not having a good time and then acts surprised when she tells him such) and flirts with him sexually in front of his (underage) daughter. seems to ignore octavia's worsening mood in favour of blitz until the aforementioned tears. has little to say for himself when confronted but assures her he won't abandon her. lol. lmao, even.

promptly forgets about something important to her and abandons her to once again in a foreign place to have sexual banter with his affair partner. is an all-powerful demon who could've pulled blitz away from funny sitcom shenanigans at any point to go look for octavia, but has to be reminded by blitz (sexily, for some reason) that they should go look for their daughters after the sitcom shit is cut short by accident. maybe via can't exactly be killed or hurt but literally anything else could've happened to her while she, a presumably quite sheltered teenager, was running around the human world for the first time by herself. she has to get a pep talk from a stranger (the daughter of her fathers affair partner, by the way) about how her dad might be a fuckup but totally loves her, despite having just spent the last afternoon fawning over blitz instead of worrying about octavia. this stranger is also the only adult bothering to look for her in any capacity. octavia would have spent the entire afternoon lost and alone if it weren't for loona being the only one to give a shit.

'what about my daughter', noticeably just kind of goes home with blitz after everything in mastermind and makes no effort to even call or text her. 'erm he was probably traumatised and exhausted-' literally everyone was just under the impression blitz was going to die. i'm sure they're all traumatised and exhausted. stolas lost his powers and his stupid ass house for a little bit, not even forever, over an affair he actively exploited a power dynamic to consciously have, not caring about how it effected his daughter, or the potential future consequences thereof. hitting the impeccable 'i wont abandon you my daughter who i definitely care about' then instantly forgetting she exists 2 seconds later because he of a hole he dug for himself. the point is he once again prioritises blitz over via. was it that easy to forget about her?

tangentially, if you want to believe that stella is an abusive mother (we haven't seen it in the show but i wouldn't be surprised if they wanted you to perceive it that way) then stolas is doing all of this while allowing stella to have octavia. alone, might i add.

via is objectively right to worry stolas is going to abandon her for blitz because he Does. she doesn't appeal to me as a character persay but her situation is miserable enough that i can't bring myself to really dislike her

[n3felibata]

Literally every single person I've encountered that's called Stolas a neglectful, abusive father has been very media illiterate, or just has a small understanding of what's going on in the show. Almost as if the idea that Stolas is abusing Octavia is itself a media illiterate thing to think

But I'm sure that's just coincidence 🤷‍♀️

[urproblematicfav-arsonk]

ok you made good points for the most part but something in your helluva post confuses me: how in the world has stolas been "sexually abusing octavia the entire series"?

going off of the definition of sexual abuse (rape, assault, trafficking, molestation, coercion, etc.) i cannot think of anything that even remotely points to evidence of that.

surely, SURELY you aren't claiming that just because he said something sexual on the phone in front of her? not even TO her or ABOUT her? that's a misstep for sure, but going so far as to call that sexual abuse is... just not correct.

maybe if he did it on purpose or specifically because she was around, but to me it reads like he forgot she was there and got caught up in the phone conversation. there's no evidence that it happened more than once either, so "the whole series" is a biiig stretch.

i REALLY hope that specific moment isn't what you mean, because that's the kind of claim that really softens the meaning of the term... but i really can't think of anything else that even suggests it.

I feel like theres definitely a way to say "Hey! We seem to disagree on this interpretation of this show! I have no fucking idea where you are coming from, can you explain?" Without turning it into a...definition....of rape.......to the rape victim........and also accusing said rape victim of "softening" language?? Would the term sexual harassment be better?? I personally think it's arbitrary to say "thats not technically sexual abuse, its just weird, stop calling it that" when it's something sexual.....that hurts someone?? Idk its semantics.

So anyway ignoring the vibes you brought to the table, I was talking to my irl friend about Helluva, back when the stolitz shit was happening. And I was complaining because of how CLEAR the abuse in that dynamic is to me. And he was like "I think cuz of your trauma that you're reading into it too much and taking it too seriously." And I was like "IF VIV WANTS POINTS FOR DOING SA REP, THEN IM GONNA TAKE EVERYTHING SUPER SERIOUSLY"

The difference between us is that I was sexually abused, and trafficked(not sex trafficked but still) so when I watch this show, I IMMEDIATELY pick up on things happening there. While he doesn't because he's """normal"""" and not traumatized, so he just sees fun dick joke show about dick and balls. I think a lot of this fandom is a mix of both. People like me picking up on signs, and other people who just are here for jokes and don't necessarily notice all the really bad shit because thats not exactly their lived experience. Completely understandable, I don't hold it against anyone for not noticing it the way I do. But I do see it, and wanna bitch about it.

We're in hell. This show is set in the actual human bible hell damnation hell for hell people. I think there's a way to read some characters as "uwu babies", but I'm not gonna. It's hell. In hell. I'm going to be giving no one the benefit of the doubt, and assume the worst in people until proven otherwise. Especially when the characters in question are dickbags who never actually change.

What Stolas is doing is...sexual harassment? Is that better??? Stolas is openly engaging in pretty intense kinkplay around his daughter and that is in fact, Bad.

(its also entirety possible Octavia knows that this dynamic is sexually violent and is forced to listen to her dad want to rape a guy, and no dont come telling me thats wrong too, fuck off.)

And as someone who's been through the exact same kind of trauma as Octavia, I can say it definitely fucked me up✨ The only thing I'll give Stolas is that it doesn't seem like he's been doing this around her since she was a small child like I was, but its still bad. That's still inappropriate behavior, that's still something he should know to stop immediately when he sees she's around. Octavia is a depressed, struggling teenager who needs love and support while dealing with this sudden divorce. Stolas spends EVERY episode that is supposed to be about them, either tryna fuck Blitz in front of her, or ignoring her to interact with Blitz and or yell at Stella.

Stolas' problem as a character(not a bad thing, this should be a story/character arc) is that he's deeply entitled, and doesn't see how is actions effect others. Stolas is upset that he was forced into marriage? Wow, isn't Stella such a bitch for doing that too him? No empathy for the woman also being raped and abused through this forced marriage. Stolas is gay and wants to fuck? Let's not think about the class difference, and that he's literally holding Blitz' survival in his hands in exchange for cock. Stolas wants the sexual experiences he was robbed of because of his trauma? Who cares if it destroys his family and makes his daughter feel worthless, he wants to sext. His arc should be about facing the fact that he's abusive, and hurtful. He is hurting Blitz, and Octavia with his sexual behavior. But if he was supposed to be a "good" character with "good intentions", then he should have no problem apologizing and ACTUALLY changing. Stolas doesn't seem upset that they're upset, he's upset he got "caught". He's upset Blitz demands respect and doesn't suck his dick the second he shows any remorse. He's upset that he can't fight Stella and fuck all he wants and instead has to deal with his moody teenager ACTUALLY needing attention and support. My comment about "the entire series" is because the only things we see are the bad parts of their relationship with no development, even if its only a few episodes.

Also since we're playing the virtue game, saying "but he didn't do it on purpose" is actual victim blaming and rapist apologist behavior so like, good job?? Saying rape or sexual abuse isn't as big of a deal just because it was an accident, or unintentional is definitely a take to have. Now, I'd say this is a stupid furry series that doesn't matter in the long run, but you're the one whining about language??

Anyway. Hazbin/Helluva are poorly made shows that annoy me. Pls stop fucking with people about shit like "softening" language and all that "real victims" and all that purity culture savior complex bullshit. Its super weird. Rambling times over, its like 5am im going back to sleep. Also I'm proship, this is media analysis not a moral thing except for the part where I was fucked with over language.

[theadhddimsenion]

Something that helluva boss is incredibly brave in doing is refusing to bow down to any kind of black and white morality system.

First and foremost I should bring up is how some so called "critics" of this show have attempted to claim that vivi is an "elitist apologist" because striker is a villain and it doesn't make the simple "eat the rich" ideology the most moral one.

I know that especially in times like these that resentment and anger towards those who are behind the massive mess we find ourselves in is at an all time high and 99% of it is totally and completely justified but one thing we have to remember is that the moment we stop considering another group as some evil and/or lesser we cross a very dangerous line.

What many of these people fail to understand is that the fact of the matter is that not every one of the "bourgeois" is a single minded monster determined to ruin the lives of the common folk for their own amusement. For sure the elites of the world are often the cause of most of our problems but acting as if they are simply evil by nature of what class they were born into is bigotry plan and simple.

People have a problem with conflating revenge with justice. Some people will insist that villains like magnetio and kill monger where justified in their actions because they only wished to bring an end to systemic oppression but the reality is that the mere act of opposesing systemic abuse and oppression is not some grand moral statement that places one above all criticism it just means you have enough compassion and Decency to understand that building systems that force people into horrible and unfair places is wrong which shouldn't be treated as if it's some massive moral revaluation!!

Strikers character is all about this folly. He's supposed to be a deconstruction of the idea that all it takes to fix a society is to give it the right leader because sometimes the problems with system are just too deeply rooted and much like a rotten foundation of a house the whole thing has to knocked down to start from scratch. He also embodies the folly that simply removing the people that created and corrupt system will magically make the system go away.

In some ways it makes sense that people would think this way. Many times when a tyrant is exposed as fallible in any way even against something as unbickqoutus as death their cults of personality die with them. But other times their influence will never seem to die and their will always be stupid, ignorant and/or evil people who will continue to rally to their vile cause even after it's creators death.

The point I'm trying to make is that what some people don't seem to understand is that their is more to social justice than just yelling "eat the rich!" And "fuck the one percent!" You have to actually look a the real problems of society, their causes and how to fix them and not be naive enough to belive that killing rich people indiscriminately will cause the world's evils and oppressive systems to vanish into thin air.

I've said it before and I will say it again. Striker is nothing but a bag of hot air and if you couldn't figure that out even after he had his own song about his own "greatness" then I'm not sure I can help you. Striker represents a type of villain some people on the left side of the political spectrum Don't want to acknowledge (for fair reasons as this often used to deny any form of societal reform) a performative Activest and a fake revolutionary. He is a reminder that there is a right and a wrong way to go about toppling corrupt systems. Their is blitzs way of actually doing something that would help your fellow victims of the system and help them rise up and then their is strikers way of yelling "eat the rich" expecting people to bow down to your Riddick and respect you for the most basic of social commentary and doing anything and everything to hurt those above you regardless if they are actually responsible for the injustices of the system all while comprising your "ideals" in the support of your own personal need for power and revenge.