#misogynistic culture

[radykalny-feminizm]

Seriously, y'all need to stop defending misogynistic men just because they’re not white and/or come from non-Christian cultures.

Being part of a group that is discriminated against does not mean that you can't discriminate against and harm others who are even more vulnerable than you.

Non-white men experience racism. Non-white women experience racism AND misogyny, from BOTH white and non-white men. White women experience misogyny from white AND non-white men.

Just because you're a man who's not white it doesn't automatically make you an innocent victim. You're an oppressor too.

[a-most-beloved-fool]

makes me a little sad when star trek ignores IDIC. like. vulcans are logical. that is true. But 'logical', for vulcans, does not amount to 'without compassion,' and it definitely doesn't amount to 'racial superiority.' Belief in 'infinite diversity in infinite combinations' should NOT result in the weird racist/speciest stuff we're getting in some of the newer treks. It does make sense that some vulcans are discriminatory. They're still flawed. But that should not be common or expected, like it seems to be in SNW. If it is, then it's a race of hypocrites, which. doesn't seem very true to Star Trek's message.

I think TOS Spock does a pretty good job of embodying this. Not always, it was the 60s, after all, but mostly. He was often trying to find non-violent routes, and get by without killing - even if they were in danger or had already been attacked. (See: the mugato, and the horta (until Kirk was the one in danger, lmao. t'hy'la > IDIC), the Gorn ship). Kirk, in his eulogy, calls him the most human soul he's ever known, and I've always read that as Kirk calling out Spock's overwhelming compassion.

It's just so much more interesting when Vulcans get to be radically compassionate. I want them to believe that everything and everyone has value. I want them to respect all ways of being. I want them to find ways for even very non-humanoid aliens to exist unfettered in society. I want them to see hybrids and think that it's amazing. Also, like, disability rep. I want Vulcans to have The Most Accessible Planet and available resources because they want everyone to feel accepted and valued. It makes for better characters and more interesting stories.

[relaxxattack]

"castes" are a bug equivilant of gender; but on alternia they are oft filtered through a lens of classism+racism. it's interesting to think about how for trolls, racism and misogyny are heavily overlapping (if not the same thing*)... which could be a statement about how human misogyny and racism are also heavily overlapping (since bioessentialism is so heavily rooted in colonialist white eurocentric standards). or it could just be a weird coincidence.

[soaplantro]

Although it is true that everyone has internalized misogyny to work on, what doesn't get brought up enough is how people are differently incentivized to unpack that misogyny. For a trans woman, it is often a matter of necessity. I had a hell of a lot of transmisogyny to work through long before I was out to anyone else, simply because I needed to accept & love myself as a (trans) woman, and that wasn't going to be possible unless I weeded as much of that bias out as I could.

[atopvisenyashill]

every time someone does “valyrian culture was more egalitarian than andal culture” discourse i point to the fact that jaehaerys invented the doctrine of exceptionalism and was an evil misogynistic menace to every woman he knew, how visenya was not the ruler of their house despite being older, and how the vale which is STEEPED in andal culture & chivalry & the seven regularly has their houses ruled by women in a way that almost no other region outside of dorne has ntm having the ONLY ruling lady of a paramount house INCLUDING VALYRIAN AND FIRST MEN HOUSES and also i start shrieking

[serpentface]

Oh yeah I meant to ask, to what extent does social paranoia/self-surveillance/Complexes/etc. affect Janeys & Brakul’s relationship, or their attitudes toward one another/themselves? I remember something written about them not engaging in penetrative sex in relation to Wardi taboos on bodily integrity, which, if not just happening to coincide with personal preference, sounds potentially pretty fraught. (Maybe excessively paranoid, but I want to clarify that this isn’t necessarily a Horny Question)

Not a horny question but as usual my answer is going to be excessively long and detailed so get ready.

Anyway yeahhhh it’s pretty fraught. The bottom line is that they love each other and are also mad horny about it with only a limited number of outlets, which only adds stress to an already stressful situation. They are fully aware that they love each other and there's no 'no homo'ing their way out of this one, but ARE kind of in denial about there being a sexual component to their relationship (which is partly bolstered by the Wardi view on sexuality only considering Full Penetration to actually be 'sex', and they aren't doing that, sooooo....).

With regards to paranoia/self surveillance....

Both of them share a fairly equal concern about status and honor. They are both fully in agreement that many aspects of their relationship have to be secret and that both need to uphold a normative life for high status individuals. The threat of public shaming is a very real concern, and they have killed people over it (duels over slander and impugned honor are legal in some contexts, Brakul extralegally beat a guy to death for it once).

Brakul personally most concerned about other people, and is compelled to avoid doing anything in public that could even be construed as romantic in nature. Wardi cultural norms permit men to be physically affectionate with male friends (kissing on the cheek is a common greeting) but Brakul is pretty hardline Bro Do Not Even Touch Me In Public. He has very few compunctions about anything done in private so long as he doesn't specifically feel emasculated by it.

Janeys is heavily religious and strongly concerned about curses and spiritual pollution (all believers in this faith share this basic tendency, but it tends to be of more pressing psychological concern to the upper classes via impact on social status and honor). His core personal concerns are on the spiritual end of things- belief in curses and spiritual pollution is a very real motivating factor in this culture. Anything he does that is conventionally understood as emasculating or spiritually violating, he has to rationalize and self-justify away.

There’s a tendency among the upper class to imagine the Commoner having a poor, uneducated, and superficial understanding of the religion, and philosophical debates on the nuances of religion is considered an ideal leisure pastime among the educated upper class. So part of Janeys’ self-justification cycle is usually like “I am very smart and knowledgeable, and now that I’m thinking about it the idea that [xyz gay as shit behavior] is spiritually polluting is superstition of the common rabble and missing all the Subtle Nuances”.

It’s kind of like Janeys will laboriously mental gymnastics his way through his various concerns and eventually be like “I Have Discovered That Giving Blowjobs Is Not Spiritually Polluting, (And In Fact Is Very Masculine???) I Will Analyze This Further” and Brakul is like “Ok cool not polluting okay awesome that’s great ok let’s go let's go letsgoletsgoletsgo”

This is a long, slow process. They have been in a relationship where they both want to fuck each other stupid for over a decade without any of that happening, instead just very slowly escalating while being very frustrated about it the whole time.

Sworn brotherhoods such as theirs are upheld by an annual ritual involving bloodletting (the palms are cut, blood drained into wine and mutually imbibed, other stuff happens). It’s a lengthy ceremony and partly supervised by a priest. The first escalation is they started doing this like, monthly on their own. It feels intimate and scratches an itch for physical and psychological closeness.

This escalated into performing a ‘’’condensed’’’ version of the ritual, which is really just them sitting around and cutting each other with a razor and licking up the blood (while perhaps half-assedly reciting the associated prayers). The underlying factor is they always need to have some excuse that does not ‘shame’ them- in this case, they have decided that their frequent exchange of blood keeps their bond soooo strong and powerful and that they're like, the best sworn brothers ever.

This blood shit is UNQUESTIONABLY sexual for them and is a physical outlet for sexual frustration. And it does eventually escalate to them finally getting off (‘weird blood shit’ was their first base, ‘doing weird blood shit and frantically dry humping to completion and then not talking about it’ was their second, ‘kissing on the mouth’ was like, 6th)

This all was worsened by the genius decision of having Brakul knock up Hibrides, who is Janeys’ wife. Janeys has no attraction to women (and also probable fertility issues) so he never succeeded himself. She had passed the expected childbearing age and is utterly miserable in this relationship and was kinda like “uhhh if you won’t let me fucking DIVORCE YOUR ASS you’d better figure something out because you’re shaming ME”, and since sworn brothers effectively ‘share’ wives (IN THEORY this is just a commitment to support your brothers’ wife and children in the case of his death) they came to an agreement that this was NOT Janeys being cuckolded and shamed, as long as no one else finds out.

The lingering after effects of this decision are one of the primary strains on their relationship on a whole number of levels, one of which is Janeys now being intensely jealous of Hibrides for ‘getting to’ fuck Brakul, and that she has had a form of closeness with him that Janeys can never have (not even just the sex but like, conception itself). The feeling of having a metaphysical bond with someone who he sees as stronger than himself makes him feel more secure, and the sense that someone has gotten in the way of that and experienced something 'deeper' is very distressing for him. Brakul also kind of wants to be a father and really, really, really wants a relationship with his bastard children (something which both Janeys and Hibrides prevent him from doing) which really wears on him.

On a personal level, Janeys swings between feeling smugly justified about everything (he's only hiding it because everyone around him is stupid and wouldn't get The Nuances) and like, Oh God I've fucked up so bad I am shamed beyond recognition. Why did you let me do this to myself, this is your fault, you made me like this, etc etc etc. (This is especially the case when he suffers any unusual misfortune, seeing it as signs of a curse).

Brakul can usually weather this out (and is also very good at logically assuaging his concerns), but it's very draining on him. He shares the core belief in spiritual pollution, but he doesn't share the experience of actually Feeling dirty or shamed by things only they know about. They get into a lot of fights (not necessarily explicitly about all this, but it's an underlying tension) and Brakul often just deals with it by up and leaving for days on end until Janeys is miserable enough to not be upset. Brakul also has some alcohol abuse issues and could be diagnosed with clinical depression (not entirely because of this, but it doesn't help).

Another bottom line is just like, after over a decade in vehement denial that they are fucking each other, the notion of 'actually fucking each other' has kind of an outsized weight to it. Objectively (BY WARDI CULTURAL STANDARDS) they have ENTIRELY and thoroughly shamed each other and are riddled with spiritual pollution, and taking it up the ass couldn't make it any worse so might as well. But they haven't quite got there.

So yeah this is kind of all over the place but I think this answers the question???????

[ovaruling]

something to be said for the fact that people have enough self-control to write a full thesis on why it’s still ok to listen to misogynistic music but cannot themselves go a single day without streaming the misogynistic music. we uphold the culture of misogyny every time we stream it or add it to a playlist etc even if we don’t agree with the lyrics. like. how is this not clicking. it’s direct support. most likely no one is ever gonna tap dance out from behind a bush and ask you for your nuanced opinion on it, and it wouldn’t even matter if they did if you’ve already given that artist and label uncountable reasons to keep making this kind of music cuz we keep telling them with our purchasing and streaming and editing and trending power that as long as it’s catchy enough for you they can say whatever they want about women

[noctilionoidea]

i get insulted by a lot of modern tropes that misrepresent Greek gods but nothing gets me as actively violent as when someone decides Ares is a misogynist. The father of the amazons. He who is feasted by women. The guy who murdered his daughter’s rapist. Yeah… he really hates women ig

[prolibytherium]

Reverse is like when a (historical-ish or not) fantasy setting kind of implies itself to have a homophobic or misogynist societal outlook where like you get characters talking About being isolated or unaccepted for their romantic/sexual interests or how they're meant to be more than a housewife or etc, but you never really see much societal enforcement of these norms whatsoever beyond the broadest strokes of 'marriage is between men and women and women are supposed to be housewives, probably?'. Like it's just a vast open space for readers to project homophobia and misogyny on, but lacking in any real exploration or engagement.

Like I'm not saying like 'put in a gaybashing' and it doesn't have to be (and probably Shouldn't be) 24/7 pain and suffering and anguish, but if you want arcs about characters struggling with their sexuality or marginalized gender roles there should probably be more than just a loose implication of something they have to struggle Against.

[sillygrossgirl]

The fact that after Dr Moumita was brutally raped and killed, yet to recieve a smidge of justice and evidence was even purposely destroyed to deter the investigation, people went to porn sites to search her name and find photos/ videos of her last moments alive. Recently found out this apparently happens everytime a case of someone being sexually assaulted/ killed goes "viral".

The thing is that its not exactly shocking to me, but it still makes my skin crawl. People are out here protesting and trying to get her justice, meanwhile others are doing this.

[diosapate]

i personally will never ever forget two years ago when every misogynistic ghoul with a twitch channel live reacted to amber heard testify about being raped and then picked everything she recounted to shreds and made fun of her because it got them views & engagement. truly fucking dystopian

[lucienne-thee-librarian]

Okay but also because I'm a pedantic bitch...in relation to that post I just reblogged explaining part of gay-on-gay bigotry...what if some people are just assholes who happen to be gay, or bi or trans? And they're all for oppression or just plain cruelty as long as it's aimed at other people? Like that's also something to consider.

I don't actually think, any longer, that "internalized self-hate projected outward and also suppressed envy for someone who's doing and being all the things you were convinced into not allowing yourself" is...all there is to this phenonemon. And I wish we'd stop fixating on that quite so much just because we want to be frankly, nicer than some of these people have ever deserved. It's always more satisfying on some level, to imagine your enemies as Tortured deep inside (whether it's because you feel a bit malicious or you just want to believe that there's a way to reach out and heal them with kindness.) than to admit that Sometimes They're Just a Shithead.

Now, do I think that complex can be a big part of it? Oh yeah. And of COURSE, different people have different motivations in different amounts and yadda yadda yadda. No group of people, ethnic, gender, political or otherwise is a Monolith. (For one thing, when it comes to these Pick-Me Gay/Trans pundits and Influencers, money and clout should never be left out as an explanation. Just saying.) But that's the point, isn't it? Any ONE explanation can't explain them all completely.

Tbh, I think we need to consider some people are just bullies who happened to be born not cis or straight. And even if they were bullied at one point for their identity, they learned absolutely nothing from the experience except Don't Be On the Social Reject Side. So they moved their thinking just enough that "woman who likes women" "man who likes men" "I just happened o want to be a woman instead, or a man instead despite how I was born" could be put in the Safe category and they fight for that. Everyone else though, is still fair game and even a fair target. Some people don't just want power to escape oppression and live their lives in peace, they WANT to BE the ones oppressing. Like, do we ACTUALLY understand that LGBT people are humans too and that that includes the bad side?

It tracks a lot better too, when you consider that a lot of people like the masc4masc gays are openly racist and fatphobic. "No fems" Yes but also "No fats. No Asians." Christ, I could think of countless examples of white thin (and sometimes but not necessary cis) queer people doing that sort of thing. I'm sure y'all can too. This idea of some poor lost soul Tormented by Self Hate and Envy of the Freedom of Others doesn't do shit to explain that. Like, even if the two things coexist and they can, it doesn't explain that part.

I honestly just think the uglier but more accurate truth is that lot of queer people aren't all Hashtag Gay or Trans Rights or aren't Liberal out of any sense of justice AT ALL but only self-interest. Being an activist because you're a member of an oppressed group is like, entirely normal and fine of course BUT it becomes real clear when someone's framework of ethics and politics is PURELY "I think me (and people I personally like and approve of) being oppressed is bad" and literally not one inch deeper.

You can tell because if it was deeper, why would they find it so easy to turn around to a fellow queer/trans person to jeer at and humiliate and throw them under the bus if they think they're a Deadweight to the group by being a Weirdo I Don't Want to Stand Next to, Eww...or if they just don't personally like them? Why have you clearly spent absolutely no time unpacking any of the prejudice and biases around gender sexuality (or GOD FORBID race) that society throws at you.. at least no more time than it takes to rationalize yourself out of the category of Should Be Destroyed and Oppressed?

We are not immune from this sort of terminally self-interested activism. I just feel like we'd get a lot further as a society, as a community, if sometimes our analysis of bullies and assholes didn't fixate on finding some deep pain and trauma inside them, to explain their actions in a way that makes them look more tortured and less malicious (even if we say, even mean, that it's not supposed to be an excuse). Sometimes people are just racist, or fatphobic. Sometimes lesbians or gay men or bi or trans people just want to be judgmental bullies too.

Sometimes the reality isn't Tragic Villain Backstory. Sometimes, its just a selfish, deeply pathetic person refusing to become any less, because it's easier not to; even if you had a unique chance to see how the other side lives, a chance your straight cis bully peers didn't get by virtue of their identities.

[redditreceipts]

sigh... do these people think that women put on make-up and feel like it accurately represents their personality?

[aalghul]

senselessly hating on a character ≠ talking about the characters flaws and failings (which make them compelling and worth engaging with) is still kicking people’s asses

[mymeanthoughts]

wherever islam or christianity arrive, indigenous culture dies

[lesbiancorvoattano]

what purity culture is: beliefs and attitudes within christianity in which women must remain virgins until marriage and after marriage they must be sexually available to their husbands at all times. within purity culture, only virgins can be raped. believing in purity culture is associated with believing in rape myths. it makes rape survivors feel worthless.  purity culture causes trauma in girls and women. purity culture also involves chastity rings, virginity pledges, and abstinence only sex education 

what purity culture is NOT: someone disagreeing with you on fandom discourse or disliking ur fanfiction