#misogynistic culture

[radykalny-feminizm]

Seriously, y'all need to stop defending misogynistic men just because they’re not white and/or come from non-Christian cultures.

Being part of a group that is discriminated against does not mean that you can't discriminate against and harm others who are even more vulnerable than you.

Non-white men experience racism. Non-white women experience racism AND misogyny, from BOTH white and non-white men. White women experience misogyny from white AND non-white men.

Just because you're a man who's not white it doesn't automatically make you an innocent victim. You're an oppressor too.

[trans-androgyne]

I don't know how to handle getting treated like a monster for my gender identity. When I was thought I was a cis queer woman I was considered harmless, but now that I openly prefer masculinity I'm treated like an inherent danger to others, especially women. "Trans guys without mood stabilizers should be illegal." "Kill all men including trans men because one of them hurt me." "You really are the men of the trans community--just as dangerous and misogynistic as cis men." "Trans guys need to accept that women won't feel safe around them." "Testosterone makes you aggressive and violent." Why do I have to prove I'm One Of The Good Ones or be held responsible for every awful thing any guy has done ever. Though to many people it seems like there are no good transmascs period no matter what we do.

[dykedvonte]

You ever just see a Mouthwashing take that makes you want to bang your head into a wall? I literally just saw someone claim Curly couldn't have been emotionally abused by Jimmy before the crash because he was in a higher position of power than Jimmy.

-Shrimp Anon

The mouthwashing fandom has shown me that people genuinely do believe that certain types of abuse are not as detrimental as other types especially when they deem those immune/resistant, ergo, believing one is objectively worse no matter how it affects the person nor the intersections of power, history and dynamics at play.

Get ready cause this is a yap session:

Cause like it's heavily implied that Curly and Jimmy's friendship was toxic and abusive, pointedly in the direction of how Jimmy uses Curly's belief/comfort in him. Curly wasn't forced to enable Jimmy but he was emotional and mentally on edge around him in almost every scene in some way. Mental and emotional abuse are not contingent on what positions you have at work. Yeah, he's Jimmy's boss but he was Jimmy's friend first and it's like getting into Psych discussion to talk about how social power tends to overshadow any perceived organizational power in the human mind. People are concerned about their jobs ofc but they tend to hang onto and put more value/investment into their personal relationships, hence why there tends to be laws and restrictions around mixing the two.

I always see the sentiments that "Curly is a grown ass man", "Curly is bigger than Jimmy", "Curly is Jimmy's boss", "He just needed a backbone" as criticisms of Curly and while I do agree that on the surface level all of these to be true and viable ways Curly could've taken more control of the situation, I often look at the parallels of Anya and Curly as victims of Jimmy pre/post crash.

The way Jimmy talks to Anya post crash is how he talked to Curly in the pre-crash segments. It's hard to pin-point mainly because we know he hates and wants nothing to do with Anya compared to his contrary but similarly handled obsessions with Curly. It's a weird sort of "honey-moon" effect of abuse Jimmy does in terms of emotional and mental victimization. He is always horrid to Anya, always talking down or questioning her abilities and thoughts in a situation, this of course includes the harassment and assault. However, he has a moment of attempted gentleness/conditioning when he question her about the mouthwash when she's contemplating drinking it at the table. The key difference is he has no personal investment in Jimmy outside wanting nothing to do with him, meaning there is no sort of romanticized version of him that he can condition her off of. He knows this, hence, why he always reverts to trying to make her to scared to oppose him.

This sort of give and take of "kindness" doesn't work on her because she knows he is just doing it to take more from her than whatever he could possibly give but it reflects even the "softer" scenes between him and Curly where he always rewords or rephrases Curly's sentiments and concerns to sound more shallow. He is feigning a deeper understanding by reworking Curly's emotions into something bad and needing to be hidden. Everything is laced with envy and resentment, an outburst just around the corner, I mean he even slams the table in the birthday party scene, a tactic in emotional manipulation to set the victim on edge and cloud their ability to respond. Even if Curly knows Jimmy won't get physical in that moment, the physical actions is intended to make him back down in the confrontation in case it does. This is something that is just not person specific. It ingrains itself into how you interact with the world and life and it shows in major and minor ways with Curly.

Post-crash, the abusive nature is more in tandem to the physical victimization Anya went through and the stripping of voice and autonomy we see take place. Like the parasite in HFIM, Jimmy speaks for Curly most of the time and puts words in his mouth, similarly to how he takes Anya's plans as his own. He very commonly, with the both of them mind you, supplements the worst aspects of himself into them; pettiness, selfishness, lack of understanding... And tries to cover himself with their best qualities; kindness, planning, initiative, etc...

These parallel are just to say that positional power has little to do with if a person can be abused and how it can even be flipped to further the abuse. There is no doubt that Curly could've picked up on Jimmy's envy of his position hence another reason he never confronted him as a Captain but as a friend as doing so would immediately put Jimmy in a space to be confrontational/combative.

I think the disdain some people have when they talk about the heavily implied if not implicitly stated emotional/mental abuse Curly experienced being Jimmy's friend is when treating it as an excuse to why he didn't do more. I can understand that completely because it is not an excuse to why he didn't do more but is a very real reason people in his position in these scenarios can experience whether in the context of a work or social environment. However, I also think the way people talk about it really does demonstrate a bigger problem when talking about abuse when somehow who is/was abused is either part of the issue or enabled it.

Harkening back to the sentiments about Curly's inaction regarding Jimmy, I think the exact phrases I used/have seen show how there is an inherent belief that it is easier to overpower the effects of emotional/mental abuse that go in tandem with the perception of Curly as someone who should be able to. There is not an age you suddenly stop being susceptible to abuse nor a set point or low where you realize how it has affected you. You don't suddenly know to stand up or put a face on to face your abuser nor admit that you inadvertently enabled them to subjugate someone else to the same treatment. Maybe it's my psych brain but their is this growing belief that direct action is somehow easy or always the best method with the game shows you instances where it is not always the case. In real life that rings true too. He should have done more, but it's not impossible to see why he struggled to find a way or didn't even if it makes us mad.

It's not easy to suddenly gain a "back-bone". You don't immediately want to resort to aggression, especially if it mirrors the type you were a victim to. You don't want to believe you allowed yourself to be treated this bad, let it get that bad or allowed something bad to happen to someone else. It is easy to be in denial, to retreat to your thoughts or make excuses to avoid the painful truth. It's frustrating but in a way we know is relatable. It why we both hate and love Curly for it. We know we'd be better, we think we'd be better, we like to think we wouldn't falter in the same ways but it's always easier to say that from the outside looking in. It's easy to see what he was doing wrong because we are seeing it, not him, but the game really does make you picture what you would do if this was your raw reality and it's why this debate about Curly seems so never ending/contradictory. We can all say what we'd do but bottom line is that's much different when you're in the moment with all the emotions and human feelings attached.

I personally think Mouthwashing tackles the themes of rape culture, enabling, toxic masculinity, types of abuse and patriarchy in ways that are meant to deconstruct the typical straightforward views we mostly have of these concepts and how little subtilities of them are just as, if not more, detrimental than the overt/obvious parts. The game deals with the idea of little details and bigger picture in a way to show that sometimes the bigger picture is not the issue but the little details that make it up. It's why I have a personal dislike of depictions of Jimmy as the typical horrible person who would of course do something like this because the game is about noticing the little warning signs, the foreshadowing and foresight.

It's why I dislike the typical discussion of "bro code" and "boys will be boys" for the game because the game makes a point to avoid the standard depictions of such. It is about the type of men who still enable despite not condoning, agreeing or even perpetuating harmful beliefs because they can't see the little details or the ways it seeps into their everyday. The severity is not obvious to them as it was not obvious to Curly, Swansea or even Daisuke the way it was to a woman like Anya. There are little details about Jimmy that should ring alarms but if you are too naive like Daisuke, too distant like Swansea or too conditioned like Curly, they are just off markers.

There is 100% more constructive/concise ways to say "Curly was a victim of Jimmy's abuse on an emotional and mental aspect that clouded his judgements and perceptions in the scenario" while also critiquing on the side of "Curly still had a responsibility to protect Anya as a crew mate and Captain that he failed to do due to biases and stigma's he failed to surpass" without the weird condemnation people give him about should've knowing better than to let himself be manipulated by a person he considered a close, if not family/best-friend and had his own reasons to trust initially. Also stop being weird about victims of abuse in general with this fandom, like sorry not everyone has a like social epiphany the moment someone's nasty to them. People are treating it like you immediately know when you are in a toxic relationship immediately or comprehend when a person is actively dangerous and either it's your fault for not knowing how to leave/cut them off or you deserve it. Like the hypocrisy of people believing how certain fans treat the story reflect their irl views but not their own is crazy.

End statement is: I honestly don't even know man, I've been writing this too long and just like no man on that ship was perfect or really helped Anya when it mattered and I feel like pitting them against each other in discussion on who did the least or most or how it was justified sucks cause in the end Anya always did the most and best thing for herself.

[profeminist]

"Men, what are you doing about the other men saying things like "Your body, my choice?"

What will you do when you see it? Will you call it out? Will you confront it? Will you stop your best friend from saying it? Will you stop being friends with them?

Don't be passive in this. Don't laugh it off. Don't excuse it as a joke.

It's not a joke. It is a threat."

Source: https://www.threads.net/@adhdruids/post/DCFoauQvB5r/men-what-are-you-doing-about-the-other-men-saying-things-like-your-body-my-choic

[feministfang]

All the women spamming Blake Lively's comments with "Amber Heard 2" just proves how horrendous, horribly and disgustingly misogynistic these pick me white liberal leftists are like idek the complete story behind what happened between Justin and Blake but ain’t no way i will ever support a man over a woman. This ugly man literally hired a whole PR team and engineered the mass cancellation of Blake Lively (this is exactly what Johnny Depp did with Amber Heard too) and women with zero braincells and zero success in life are ready to blindly believe in stupid rumours to bring down another woman thinking they look so cool and all. No honey, you deserve a slap on your face! Female solidarity is in a nutshell because idiots like you can’t put a stop to worshipping males.

Sending my curses to Justin and everyone who supports him to live a life full of misery and i hope this bastard jumps off a third floor balcony as well!

[relaxxattack]

"castes" are a bug equivilant of gender; but on alternia they are oft filtered through a lens of classism+racism. it's interesting to think about how for trolls, racism and misogyny are heavily overlapping (if not the same thing*)... which could be a statement about how human misogyny and racism are also heavily overlapping (since bioessentialism is so heavily rooted in colonialist white eurocentric standards). or it could just be a weird coincidence.

[soaplantro]

Although it is true that everyone has internalized misogyny to work on, what doesn't get brought up enough is how people are differently incentivized to unpack that misogyny. For a trans woman, it is often a matter of necessity. I had a hell of a lot of transmisogyny to work through long before I was out to anyone else, simply because I needed to accept & love myself as a (trans) woman, and that wasn't going to be possible unless I weeded as much of that bias out as I could.

[atopvisenyashill]

every time someone does “valyrian culture was more egalitarian than andal culture” discourse i point to the fact that jaehaerys invented the doctrine of exceptionalism and was an evil misogynistic menace to every woman he knew, how visenya was not the ruler of their house despite being older, and how the vale which is STEEPED in andal culture & chivalry & the seven regularly has their houses ruled by women in a way that almost no other region outside of dorne has ntm having the ONLY ruling lady of a paramount house INCLUDING VALYRIAN AND FIRST MEN HOUSES and also i start shrieking

[watermelinoe]

people will try to treat transgender as if it is a material class of people but it functionally is not

[aro-culture-is]

Aro culture is knowing the phrase "bros before hoes" waaay before I realized I was aro and

So that's why that phrase resonates so much with me back then because it is aro coded af in a sense that, your bros shouldn't be lesser than the gf

And i think that's actually nice to know that there had been aro sentiments way before the term aro was popularized

... hm. tbh i've always heard it actually used in one of two ways:

bros (male friendship only) before hoes (the women we fuck and consider lesser than as people, typically not someone we are dating)

the meme-y version that typically just has lesser intensity on the male-focus.

[serpentface]

Oh yeah I meant to ask, to what extent does social paranoia/self-surveillance/Complexes/etc. affect Janeys & Brakul’s relationship, or their attitudes toward one another/themselves? I remember something written about them not engaging in penetrative sex in relation to Wardi taboos on bodily integrity, which, if not just happening to coincide with personal preference, sounds potentially pretty fraught. (Maybe excessively paranoid, but I want to clarify that this isn’t necessarily a Horny Question)

Not a horny question but as usual my answer is going to be excessively long and detailed so get ready.

Anyway yeahhhh it’s pretty fraught. The bottom line is that they love each other and are also mad horny about it with only a limited number of outlets, which only adds stress to an already stressful situation. They are fully aware that they love each other and there's no 'no homo'ing their way out of this one, but ARE kind of in denial about there being a sexual component to their relationship (which is partly bolstered by the Wardi view on sexuality only considering Full Penetration to actually be 'sex', and they aren't doing that, sooooo....).

With regards to paranoia/self surveillance....

Both of them share a fairly equal concern about status and honor. They are both fully in agreement that many aspects of their relationship have to be secret and that both need to uphold a normative life for high status individuals. The threat of public shaming is a very real concern, and they have killed people over it (duels over slander and impugned honor are legal in some contexts, Brakul extralegally beat a guy to death for it once).

Brakul personally most concerned about other people, and is compelled to avoid doing anything in public that could even be construed as romantic in nature. Wardi cultural norms permit men to be physically affectionate with male friends (kissing on the cheek is a common greeting) but Brakul is pretty hardline Bro Do Not Even Touch Me In Public. He has very few compunctions about anything done in private so long as he doesn't specifically feel emasculated by it.

Janeys is heavily religious and strongly concerned about curses and spiritual pollution (all believers in this faith share this basic tendency, but it tends to be of more pressing psychological concern to the upper classes via impact on social status and honor). His core personal concerns are on the spiritual end of things- belief in curses and spiritual pollution is a very real motivating factor in this culture. Anything he does that is conventionally understood as emasculating or spiritually violating, he has to rationalize and self-justify away.

There’s a tendency among the upper class to imagine the Commoner having a poor, uneducated, and superficial understanding of the religion, and philosophical debates on the nuances of religion is considered an ideal leisure pastime among the educated upper class. So part of Janeys’ self-justification cycle is usually like “I am very smart and knowledgeable, and now that I’m thinking about it the idea that [xyz gay as shit behavior] is spiritually polluting is superstition of the common rabble and missing all the Subtle Nuances”.

It’s kind of like Janeys will laboriously mental gymnastics his way through his various concerns and eventually be like “I Have Discovered That Giving Blowjobs Is Not Spiritually Polluting, (And In Fact Is Very Masculine???) I Will Analyze This Further” and Brakul is like “Ok cool not polluting okay awesome that’s great ok let’s go let's go letsgoletsgoletsgo”

This is a long, slow process. They have been in a relationship where they both want to fuck each other stupid for over a decade without any of that happening, instead just very slowly escalating while being very frustrated about it the whole time.

Sworn brotherhoods such as theirs are upheld by an annual ritual involving bloodletting (the palms are cut, blood drained into wine and mutually imbibed, other stuff happens). It’s a lengthy ceremony and partly supervised by a priest. The first escalation is they started doing this like, monthly on their own. It feels intimate and scratches an itch for physical and psychological closeness.

This escalated into performing a ‘’’condensed’’’ version of the ritual, which is really just them sitting around and cutting each other with a razor and licking up the blood (while perhaps half-assedly reciting the associated prayers). The underlying factor is they always need to have some excuse that does not ‘shame’ them- in this case, they have decided that their frequent exchange of blood keeps their bond soooo strong and powerful and that they're like, the best sworn brothers ever.

This blood shit is UNQUESTIONABLY sexual for them and is a physical outlet for sexual frustration. And it does eventually escalate to them finally getting off (‘weird blood shit’ was their first base, ‘doing weird blood shit and frantically dry humping to completion and then not talking about it’ was their second, ‘kissing on the mouth’ was like, 6th)

This all was worsened by the genius decision of having Brakul knock up Hibrides, who is Janeys’ wife. Janeys has no attraction to women (and also probable fertility issues) so he never succeeded himself. She had passed the expected childbearing age and is utterly miserable in this relationship and was kinda like “uhhh if you won’t let me fucking DIVORCE YOUR ASS you’d better figure something out because you’re shaming ME”, and since sworn brothers effectively ‘share’ wives (IN THEORY this is just a commitment to support your brothers’ wife and children in the case of his death) they came to an agreement that this was NOT Janeys being cuckolded and shamed, as long as no one else finds out.

The lingering after effects of this decision are one of the primary strains on their relationship on a whole number of levels, one of which is Janeys now being intensely jealous of Hibrides for ‘getting to’ fuck Brakul, and that she has had a form of closeness with him that Janeys can never have (not even just the sex but like, conception itself). The feeling of having a metaphysical bond with someone who he sees as stronger than himself makes him feel more secure, and the sense that someone has gotten in the way of that and experienced something 'deeper' is very distressing for him. Brakul also kind of wants to be a father and really, really, really wants a relationship with his bastard children (something which both Janeys and Hibrides prevent him from doing) which really wears on him.

On a personal level, Janeys swings between feeling smugly justified about everything (he's only hiding it because everyone around him is stupid and wouldn't get The Nuances) and like, Oh God I've fucked up so bad I am shamed beyond recognition. Why did you let me do this to myself, this is your fault, you made me like this, etc etc etc. (This is especially the case when he suffers any unusual misfortune, seeing it as signs of a curse).

Brakul can usually weather this out (and is also very good at logically assuaging his concerns), but it's very draining on him. He shares the core belief in spiritual pollution, but he doesn't share the experience of actually Feeling dirty or shamed by things only they know about. They get into a lot of fights (not necessarily explicitly about all this, but it's an underlying tension) and Brakul often just deals with it by up and leaving for days on end until Janeys is miserable enough to not be upset. Brakul also has some alcohol abuse issues and could be diagnosed with clinical depression (not entirely because of this, but it doesn't help).

Another bottom line is just like, after over a decade in vehement denial that they are fucking each other, the notion of 'actually fucking each other' has kind of an outsized weight to it. Objectively (BY WARDI CULTURAL STANDARDS) they have ENTIRELY and thoroughly shamed each other and are riddled with spiritual pollution, and taking it up the ass couldn't make it any worse so might as well. But they haven't quite got there.

So yeah this is kind of all over the place but I think this answers the question???????

[ovaruling]

something to be said for the fact that people have enough self-control to write a full thesis on why it’s still ok to listen to misogynistic music but cannot themselves go a single day without streaming the misogynistic music. we uphold the culture of misogyny every time we stream it or add it to a playlist etc even if we don’t agree with the lyrics. like. how is this not clicking. it’s direct support. most likely no one is ever gonna tap dance out from behind a bush and ask you for your nuanced opinion on it, and it wouldn’t even matter if they did if you’ve already given that artist and label uncountable reasons to keep making this kind of music cuz we keep telling them with our purchasing and streaming and editing and trending power that as long as it’s catchy enough for you they can say whatever they want about women

[langernameohnebedeutung]

.

[noctilionoidea]

i get insulted by a lot of modern tropes that misrepresent Greek gods but nothing gets me as actively violent as when someone decides Ares is a misogynist. The father of the amazons. He who is feasted by women. The guy who murdered his daughter’s rapist. Yeah… he really hates women ig

[prolibytherium]

Reverse is like when a (historical-ish or not) fantasy setting kind of implies itself to have a homophobic or misogynist societal outlook where like you get characters talking About being isolated or unaccepted for their romantic/sexual interests or how they're meant to be more than a housewife or etc, but you never really see much societal enforcement of these norms whatsoever beyond the broadest strokes of 'marriage is between men and women and women are supposed to be housewives, probably?'. Like it's just a vast open space for readers to project homophobia and misogyny on, but lacking in any real exploration or engagement.

Like I'm not saying like 'put in a gaybashing' and it doesn't have to be (and probably Shouldn't be) 24/7 pain and suffering and anguish, but if you want arcs about characters struggling with their sexuality or marginalized gender roles there should probably be more than just a loose implication of something they have to struggle Against.

[sillygrossgirl]

The fact that after Dr Moumita was brutally raped and killed, yet to recieve a smidge of justice and evidence was even purposely destroyed to deter the investigation, people went to porn sites to search her name and find photos/ videos of her last moments alive. Recently found out this apparently happens everytime a case of someone being sexually assaulted/ killed goes "viral".

The thing is that its not exactly shocking to me, but it still makes my skin crawl. People are out here protesting and trying to get her justice, meanwhile others are doing this.