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silverwhittlingknife · 8 months ago

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So you're a go to source for all things Dick&Tim bros and you tend to write primarily from Dick's POV. So, odd question, but if you were to summarize their relationship from his POV in FIVE panels which panels would you pick? Keeping in mind that one specific aspect of their relationship that you love needs to be clearly represented by each panel (loyalty, trust etc). I hope this is a fun challenge and not an annoying question so if you don't want to answer that's cool! Have a wonderful day!

No more talk. The same thoughts run through two minds... (SotB 29) / You're my equal. My closest ally. (RR 1) / I can't stop thinking how much I rely on him. (GoG 3)

25 Feelings Dick Has About Tim

This was such a kind ask & a cool challenge which I totally failed; here are TWENTY-five panels of Dick's POV on Tim sdfdsfds Look, I got carried away! Marcia and Cindy! The boys!!

OKAY SO BEFORE I GET TO THE PANELS A FEW NOTES:

WARNING THAT THERE ARE SOME NEGATIVE EMOTIONS IN HERE because I love conflict but but but you gotta remember those are not the final word!! They are complicated people and sometimes they get mad at each other BUT ultimately their relationship is so hugely important in both their lives & they love each other and rely on each other so much -!!! <3

Also I have CONCLUDING THOUGHTS at the end about what Dick's POV leaves out (mostly: a lot of Dick defending & protecting & supporting Tim, which Dick does instinctively but isn't very self-aware about most of the time)

I have loosely organized my list into 5^5 format (5 categories with 5 examples each!), so if you want to skip to a relevant one, here are the categories!!

Below the cut:

I hate him and find him infuriating (#1-5)

On second thought, he's endearing & fun (#6-10)

Grief is complicated & he's all tangled up in mine (#11-15)

I love him & think highly of him (#16-20)

I rely on him & though it's hard for me, I trust him (#21-25)

I hate him and find him infuriating (#1 - 5)

1) He thinks he’s so smart and can psychoanalyze me and Bruce, but he doesn’t know me at all, he should get lost (New Titans 61)

2) He thinks he’s so smart and can psychoanalyze Bruce but he doesn’t know Bruce at all, he should get lost (Gotham Knights 26)

3) He is so nosy about stuff that is MY business (Robin 0)

4) He sounds like an insincere suck-up half the time... but okay, fine, if you push him he's got a sense of humor about it (New Titans 65)

5) I'm sure he's a better vigilante than me. It's my fault for being a failure, but I resent him anyway. (Nightwing 9 - Dick's having a nightmare)

On second thought, he's kinda endearing (#6-10)

6) He worries too much and gets anxious so easily, but it makes him fun to tease (Robin 67)

7) I'm not that competitive - okay, so maybe I'm a little competitive, I gotta make sure he doesn't get a swelled head (Prodigal)

8) I'm supposed to be his favorite! It is not cool for him to be fanboying over my not-girlfriend's not-boyfriend!! (Birds of Prey 19)

9) We have fun together. I can kick back and relax when it's just the two of us. Plus I get to boss him around a bit. (Prodigal)

10) He’s always trying to reassure me, and I guess it's a little comforting, but also he doesn’t really get it. Or me. He makes excuses that he shouldn't, because he doesn't understand that I suck. (Nightwing 64)

Grief is complicated and he's all tangled up in mine (#11 - 15)

11) He reminds me of everything I try not to think about. Sometimes the memories are so strong it hurts to look at him. (Batman 441)

12) WHY IS HE BEING IMPOSSIBLE ALL OF A SUDDEN??? THIS IS SO FRUSTRATING (Nightwing 139)

13) We're the same. He says all the things I don't let myself think about. It's like arguing with myself. (Nightwing 139)

14) He thinks he gets to tell me what to do but he doesn’t, fuck him (Battle for the Cowl)

15) Life sucks, so what. I sucked it up so he should too (RR 1)

I love him and think highly of him (#16 - 20)

16) He’s the closest thing to a brother I’ll ever have. If someone hurts him I will hurt them harder. (Nightwing 6)

17) I can't handle the idea of losing him. (Nightwing 97)

17) He’s so good and I’m not. I'm afraid I’m bad for him. (Nightwing 110)

18) He’s better than me, and it’s kind of a relief because I know no matter what he’ll be okay. (Gates of Gotham 3)

19) In my head he’s the responsible one. (Gotham Knights 10)

I rely on him, and though it's hard for me, I trust him (#20-25)

20) I know I have to trust him but I'm afraid he'll make the wrong choices and get hurt (Nightwing 139)

21) I'm sure I know what he should do because I see myself in him - not that I can take my own advice, but he should (Blackest Night 3)

22) I trust him. When I’m losing my grip on things, he pulls me back. (Gotham Knights 10)

23) I want him to trust me (Red Robin 12)

24) He can tell when I'm lying. Sometimes he sees my weaknesses better than I wish he did. (Detective Comics 874)

25) He’s always there when I need him. (Teen Titans / Outsiders Secret Files)

Final rambling thoughts:

TIM: Uhh, okay, so I'm just skimming this list - do you really trust me? you're not just saying that? - but anyway, I'm confused because you left some stuff out? Like some stuff that's kinda important? DICK: No? I think I got everything? TIM (starts counting on his fingers): The time I was having a bad day but then I called you. The time I got captured by Two-Face but then you saved me. The time I fell off a train but then you saved me. The time I fell off a building but then you saved me. The time I fell off a different building - DICK: I feel like you're trying to make some kind of point but I'm not sure what it could be.

SO THE THING IS, I put 25 panels in here and not a single one has Dick catching Tim when he’s falling!!! But I think that's a central motif of their relationship from Tim’s POV, not Dick’s. I love Dick, but in some ways I think he is spectacularly un-self-aware.

And I think he especially has a lot of blind spots about Tim. He kinda intermittently gets that Tim admires him, and he enjoys it in a playful I-get-to-boss-you-around way. But Dick tends to consistently underestimate all of his own good qualities & skills, and he meets Tim at a point in his life when he's especially down on himself & his abilities. And so he's unable to see his own influence on Tim, & therefore unable to fully understand a lot of Tim's priorities and loyalties and motivations, because you can't actually understand Tim without understanding Dick's impact on him. There's a fascinating moment in Bruce Wayne: Murderer when Dick's completely blindsided & upset to discover that Tim doesn't entirely trust Bruce, even though this has been a definitive fact of Tim's whole thing ever since he showed up with his Batman needs Robin theory, and Barbara has to actively remind Dick of the obvious-to-everyone-except-Dick fact that a lot of Tim's loyalty is to Dick, and Tim loves Bruce but feels free to be more wary of him. (And to give Bruce credit: this is not something he ever begrudges.) But anyway Babs points this out, and Dick manages to sorta process it for about five seconds, but he cannot actually accept it into his worldview so instead he discards it at the speed of light and goes off and has an argument with Tim instead sdfsfdsf

All of Dick's virtues - Dick's kindness at the circus and Dick's determination to fight through grief and Dick's rigid sense of morals and Dick's vigilante skills and every time Dick has ever backed Tim up or listened to him or protected him or saved him from something or just been casually kind to a stranger in Tim's presence etc etc etc - all these things loom really large in Tim's mental story of Who Dick Is, and What Dick And Tim's Relationship Is. Tim meets Dick before he meets Bruce, trusts Dick more than Bruce, aspires to be Robin instead of Batman. And so in Tim's default version of the story, Dick is the super-special and admirable hero and Tim is... nobody in particular, a tagalong outsider who's barely managing to be a hero, not part of Dick and Bruce's family and not part of their story, who, if he's VERY LUCKY and tries REALLY HARD, might be able to fight his way to proving himself and offering something to Dick that Dick will value, if Dick doesn't get fed up with him first.

But that's not Dick's version of the story!!!

Dick's version of the story is almost the exact opposite, a story where Dick's an outcast failure black sheep who's screwing up everything he tries, and meanwhile Tim is The Sudden New Perfect Robin Who's Better Than Me And Probably Bruce Loves Him More And Probably They Gossip About What A Loser I Am, mixed with a complicated edge of Tim Thinks He's So Smart But He Doesn't Know Me/Us At All. Dick gets much more attached to Tim over time, and Tim gets unnervingly better at the know-it-all psychoanalysis so then Dick gets to have complicated feelings about him being right instead of just annoyance at him for being wrong, plus Dick's relationship with Bruce improves a lot, so Tim stops feeling so threatening. But Dick never fundamentally changes his basic theory of their relationship in which Tim is highly impressive and capable, and Dick is not so much.

And so asking Dick about Tim is kinda like if you asked George Bailey to tell you about Harry Bailey in It's A Wonderful Life; like, you'll be there for five hours while he tells you how great Harry is, and how accomplished Harry is, and how he doesn't really get how or why Harry does the things he does, and maybe George does feel a little resentful or jealous sometimes, but that pales in comparison to all his admiration and trust for Harry who he loves so much, who's better than him in so many ways, and he's not gonna openly gripe but secretly he can't help but feel sometimes like he's such a failure in comparison to Harry, a perfect person who emerged fully formed from Zeus's head with all the virtues and also all the accomplishments, etc. etc. etc. --

-- and he will not actually remember the part where he changed and saved Harry's whole entire life unless you literally send him to an alternate timeline in order to force him to remember it. <3

#i enjoyed thinking about this so much i wrote a novel with All My Thoughts sorry sdfsdfs #tim drake #dick grayson #somewhat tangential but as i was writing this i was thinking about zahri's post #about how different types of stories offer different kinds of emotional payoffs #and i think for me for dick and tim the main two payoffs are:#1) someone who sees & understands your grief for deaths that will never get fixed or get better #and who will face your ghosts with you EVEN WHEN you're also mad at each other #2) someone who you look at and you see all the ways that you suck & he's better & you're a loser who's failed him etc etc #but it turns out that you're wrong. that you're good enough. not that none of the failures were real or that they were all in your head #but it turns out that it's okay that you didn't always immediately do or feel the right thing #and it's okay that you weren't perfect. you can fuck up six thousand ways & everything you did right will still matter #not because of making excuses or allowances or somebody pityingly trying to make you feel better #but because in the end the things you did right are just Genuinely More Valuable than anything you did wrong #all the times you tried & everything that you tried to give - everything you think wasn't good enough - it was.#IN OTHER WORDS they are both convinced they're not good enough & they are both wrong <3 #anyway dick and tim are both INCREDIBLY SIMILAR and also CONSTANTLY misreading each other and i love that for them #and like. they will sometimes totally misread each other & then never figure out the part that they misunderstood #but then they manage to keep going anyway. we love each other on purpose <333 #ask tag #dick&tim

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kayetra-spade-queen · 24 days ago

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The Problem With Animated Shows Showcasing Toxicity In People (mostly in Indian Shows)

Let me just come out and say it;

Indian Shows by far had the most atrocious showcasing of toxicity and had little to no filter whatsoever, especially when they market those shows to be made for kids.

Word vomit ahead ⬇️

Indian Shows, especially with action-genres are definitely gonna showcase some violence with friendly(?) filter on it.

What many do not realize that a lot of minor actions done by a character or multiple characters, either a protagonist or antagonist or otherwise, they tend to do some quiet violent things themselves that could've made them be charged with assault when it's the real world, but are treated like a gag instead, subconsciously teaching the audience that such actions are fine because the show does not showcase the severity in them.

(If anyone is saying otherwise, just so you know there's a viewers discretion that wasn't there until a lot later. There's this even one kid who tried to recreate Panja Attack on his sibling despite it all).

The characters amplify this because of how they react to such things; they didn't address the situation, or point out that it's wrong, no. Instead, they just laughed it off to keep up the humorous charm (or lack thereof due to the nature of the actions itself).

Here are a few examples of the actions of some things from shows, while isn't showcased as a major thing compared to the actions of the show's antagonists, are actually pretty bad themselves;

1. Chhota Bheem

Ah yes, everyone's oldest and still favorite Indian hero. Based on the second Pandava brother, Bhima, Bheem lives by his namesake to be the strongest of all. He helps others, and protects his home from any danger.

While this show is a favorite to many for years (and honestly, me too), there are some actions of the characters that were barely addressed (at least from what I can see. Though I'm sure there's some people out there pointed this out, but their statements never gained enough attention to make this something people will point out often).

For the first, I'll address Kalia as our first study subject;

First and foremost, he is by far the most abusive character ever in the show, at least by visual senses. I don't include the villains for obvious reasons.

Kalia had 2 lackeys who are arguably (more like objectively) the most useless characters the show had ever made; Dholu and Bholu, a pair of twins.

Kalia had not once, not twice, not thrice either, but several times in the span of this show's 16-17 years long airing.

Sure, you can account because of Kalia's character who is honestly pretty bad, but the fact that the only way they can showcase Kalia's character was through sheer violence and domination towards people is just-

Moving on to the next person, Bheem himself;

Tbh, Bheem (and pretty much everyone in his group) is somewhat of a gray area when it comes to his morality. The thing about him is that he doesn't seem to give two shits when an actual abuse is going on in front of his eyes (i.e Kalia's abuse towards the twins).

And let me just bring up one of the many times he actually harmed animals in the name of "protecting the people", when he was supposed to protect both.

I'm talking about the crocodile in the early episodes of the early seasons. On the get go, he was set on getting rid of the croc from the dried riverbank by any means necessary, but it doesn't seem to include talking to it.

Like- ok, the animals are hostile and shit, but with the fact that animals can talk (*looking at Jaggu and the winged tigers*), I don't see the point of physically beating the shit out of them when they can just talk it out civilly.

"Hey, sorry to bother you, but my people here are having problems, and you kind of scared them. Can you maybe move somewhere else? I can find you a good place if you'd like."

"Oh shit- aight man, no prob, thanks. I'll take my leave now."

So many problems can be avoided if you just do this bro.

This also applies to everyone in Bheem's group; they don't seem to give 2 shits with whatever's going on around them, unless it's actually threatening them.

2. Roll No. 21

This whole show is just the most confusing and stressful, and I'm not even kidding; inconsistent lore, information provided do not seem to align, among other things.

Anyways, the first person on this list is Golu, the resident bully of Mathura Ashram himself.

He was the stereotypical bully you'll find; big and fat, and of course, a bully. And of course, like Kalia's case, he's actually part of the gang, but his overall status is interchangeable depending on the situation.

I know that the teachers are all demons so they won't bat an eye about it (most of the time at least), but the fact there's lack of order in Kris' orphanage department baffles me with how carefree Kanishk is

Second, most of the characters, if not all;

Idk, the fact that those kids will laugh at the most nerve-wracking and gut twisting shits ever kinda baffles me, like they're like a bunch of sadistic pieces of shit that would laugh at anyone experiencing pain and/or humiliation. And aren't they like 12-13?? It's literally not just Kris, it's literally every single character that does this.

I would say I kind of understand where this is coming from; all of the students of the Ashram are victims of Golu's bullying, and because Golu always had instant karma every single time (more like Kris' revenge plots), they would laugh because they feel satisfied because their oppressor had been served with justice (or whatever the hell this is).

But then again, it's kind of cruel regardless from one human being to another, especially kids who are like 12-13 year olds. Like, cutting in line when waiting for shower turns, but got frozen by ice water in return? That's like a bunny outsmarting a wolf but the wolf eventually eats the bunny.

3. Little Singham

The ongoing sensation that is literally on par with India's beloved and one of the longest cartoons in a matter of a few years.

I won't address the obvious here, but I would address the more minor ones, like Montu's bullying and the retaliations of his victims (this includes Ajay);

Again, we're met with the stereotypical bully, big and fat build, domineering. Honestly- they should make more variety of bullies, cuz this is just giving us the big build people a bad look. Make a bully to be a pretty girl, a handsome guy, expand the variety bro, you can't just keep the same theme over and over.

Anyways, Montu had been self-explanatory already. He's a bully who wants to outshine and dominate his way in the game, but gets karma almost immediately, whether it's by the law of nature or the protagonist's intervention.

Now onto the other characters, particularly the victims, and the trio of Mirchi Nagar;

Again, they had this sadistic mindset that they would immediately laugh loudly when Montu got his "karma", regardless how absurd it is.

And let me just say the many and different times and types of how Ajay retaliated against Montu for bullying him and/or his friends. From sticking a fake donkey tail to his butt after making fun of Karate, to asking the animals to mess with him.

In comparison, Ajay is a lot more tamed than Kris' retaliations. And also with the possibility that he may have been a long-standing victim of Montu for a while even prior to his promotion as LS. I have to bring up the fact that Ajay is introverted and shy with only 2 friends at his back. To kids no older than 10 or below, these types of people are considered weird and often an easy target to bullying because of how weak they are perceived whether it's physically or emotionally.

That isn't to say I support what Ajay has done. Yes, I know what he did is mostly classified as self-defense (I think), but it's not really worth going this far.

Well, I suppose I have to blame the teachers for not handling the situation at all (*looking at Ms. Tara because I hate her with a burning passion*), so ig the biggest villain in the civil side of the world are the teachers.

4. Arjun, Prince of Bali

Last but not least. I put APOB at the very last because of how much things is going on in this show even if it was classified as the minor things, especially when the background setting is a kingdom, where societal values and expectations are at its peak. Also because it's easier to talk about for me because I'm hella into royalty shit lol.

Let me just bring 2 people up, Khojo and Sankat;

First and foremost, they're a lot less like bullies, more like raging oppressors. They both had their goals with the requirements of getting rid of Arjun by any means necessary, and I do mean that quite literally.

Position-wise (and moral-wise also), it's honestly utterly unethical of them to try to fight with a godforsaken heir to the throne. I'm not sure if anyone is aware of how the hierarchy system works (which is weird honestly, but hey-), but when the first heir is eliminated, the title of future monarch will be passed down to the next to the throne, in this case which is Tanya.

And for picking fights with one of the members of the royal family is the equivalent of going against the entire nation.

Let me address Khojo first because he's a repeat offender in majority of the cases; he was delusional in an absurd amount. He hated Arjun but liked Tanya. He wanted to eliminate Arjun so badly so he could be prince, in which if you didn't read my previous post about APOB before, I've explained that it can't be possible, unless he wanted to be prince consort and nothing more if he were intending to just be that and marries Tanya. Even so, when Arjun got kidnapped, Khojo won't be prince —not by a long shot at that— he'll still remain as nothing more as the Minister's son. If he marries Tanya, he'll just be prince consort.

And then there's Sankat; Arjun and Tanya's cousin who seemed hellbent on getting rid of Arjun due to his jealousy. Internal conflicts in the royal family shouldn't be made public to keep up an image, usually there's this inner war between family members to determine which will be worthy to ascend to the throne, or bringing the entire kingdom into ruin. I'm not sure if the people are oblivious or just dumb (both most likely), but there are several times where Sankat pushed Arjun aside in favor of himself in front of public, and he wasn't even subtle about it either.

This concludes my ramble. I only mentioned 4 because for 2 reasons;

1. These shows are the ones I'm most aware of

2. Many would recognize this compared to the newer ones lol

Again, I feel like things like these aren't being addressed enough, because people are more inclined to look passed these in favor of holding the things they liked up high in high standards while in the meantime completely disregarding the bigger issues laying underneath the glorified fighting champions.

This entire post isn't made to take down the shows because they're bad; I'm simply trying to address the things that many people seemed to have prefer to ignore. I am by no means trying to take down these shows or trying to treat these shows as something not worth to be watched; it does, it just had a lot of flaws like many cartoons typically do because they're not made to be perfect, they're shows for kids.

But truthfully, because these are cartoons for kids, such behaviors should be properly addressed and handled, treating them like a gag, especially when they had this whole stereotype in place in majority of these shows which creates this subconscious mindset that'll affect how they'll react in situations.

Ok- I think I can FINALLY conclude this essay holy shit-

#little singham #chhota bheem #arjun prince of bali #roll no. 21 #another day another ramble because im bored #on a serious note these things should be addressed better because holy shit the line between these two things are so blurred #as much as i love these shows i also have to acknowledge the major flaws in them that was never able to be properly addressed #on the topic of cb im honestly favoring more on the newer seasons with the new artstyle and voices #for one thing is because they look and sound like children compared to the old styles #another because the violence was so much more tamed compared to straight up abuse that i see in the old style #for kids shows they really dont shy away on showing the morbid side of fighting #but i feel like they failed to address the issues of a more “minor” cases because theyre just that according to the format #imo its important to address it as much as the usual format no matter how small the show made it out to be #a lot of the time because the characters are that of gray morality not really because they can chose right or wrong #theyre more on doing it if it benefits them or it threatens them #Kayetra Spade Queen #Kayetra Rambles #more like Kayetra yapping 😭#i tagged as much as i typed in the blog lol

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