#like okay sure i KNOW the game doesn't have a “true protagonist” but honestly. the dark urge feels too important to be left out

[veilblight]

they said not to play as the dark urge for your first campaign because literally how am i supposed to do a custom origin run after this

[magesforthedas]

Okay, newest discourse I've seen and want to share my opinion on... Mostly it's about Rook's companions. PLEASE be aware the are Spoilers for late game DAV below!

So, I've been seeing a bunch of people talking about how the companions don't really act like they care about you, because they aren't asking you how you are doing.

We've got some things to dissect here 😅 first off, not everyone's love language is words of encouragement haha. But on a serious note, even if it's true that they never asked "Rook, are you alright?" (Which, I'm pretty sure I got asked that by at least one companion...?) It doesn't mean they don't care about you. The more interactions and companion quests you do, the more you see that care come out.

Davrin asking you to join him for walks? He sees you need a break and fresh air.

Emmerich taking you to the gardens? It's probably the most relaxing thing he can think of.

Neve taking you with her to throw rocks, the thing she does when she needs a break and to clear her mind? She's hoping it helps you too.

Taash taking you to feed the birds? Again, something that helps them clear their head? Makes it easier to think? Also, their comment about you not knowing loss... Haven't you ever said something when you are angry that you know will hurt? Maybe that's how Taash sees you, or maybe they see the haunted look of grief in your eyes every day, and wanted to provoke you into getting mad and talking about it- exactly how they are apt to share their emotions. But Rook knows that comment isn't about them, it's about Taash.

Harding taking you with her to practice her new magic? It's something potentially fun and a little exciting, something brighter than the death and despair everywhere.

Tbh I'm having trouble thinking past romance stuff for Lucanis 😂 but like, making you food, he does check in on you, his quiet care in the way he would talk to you. I'll see on this second playthrough how much stays even when he isn't romanced.

Bellara taking you to check elven artifacts? You most likely have no idea what you are doing, she obviously just wanted you there. Now, it could be because she just wants support, but I wouldn't be surprised if she was hoping some knowledge of how to handle these artifacts rubbed off on you, and wasn't sure how to say that. She's obviously protective, and doesn't always know how to say what she wants.

Point is, sometimes it's words, sometimes it's actions, but they obviously do care. They also realize: you are the one leading this, the one with the most weight on your shoulders. They may be unsure how to actually ease that weight, and not just remind you that you have it.

It makes me really, really sad to see people say that they can't find it in them to care about the companions, because they don't ask you how you feel. Is their worth directly linked to your wellbeing? Is the only correct way of showing care or affection the way you prefer? I cried through multiple companion scenes because of the raw emotions they shared with me. Does that willingness to be vulnerable count for nothing?

Something I honestly appreciate about Rook, is there's a little bit we know for sure about them. You can decide their identity, if they're serious or joking, or optimistic or angry. There's room to fill your backstory. But the core of you is the same, and it's why Varric chose Rook: because you see a problem, you solve it. You see an injustice, you have to do something. Every backstory, you did something that saved lives or helped people and it got you in trouble; you know how to put others first, but without it breaking you.

There are a lot of similarities between Hawke and Rook that I see, the Found Family trope being the biggest. And you know, both families are maybe a little dysfunctional. But while there are similarities, it's unfair to compare how Hawke's friends approached their wellbeing with the Veilguard, because they are all, the protagonist and the companions alike, different people, who would handle and process trauma differently. And in a way that, whether the healthiest or not, kept everyone sane; though there are times when things could slip through the cracks.

My final thought is about Varric, or rather, his death. I saw people talking about how Solas couldn't have kept that ruse going if the companions had bothered to check in with you. Now, sure maybe no one ever said anything because they were concerned if it would help or not. You've been caught in the infirmary a couple times, talking to nothing: maybe that is what helps you cope?

But I think it is completely plausible that the magic Solas was using to make you think Varric was still alive, could also have been censoring outside mention of him. A lot of the time if Varric gets brought up in conversation by someone, they just.... Trail off? What if they said more, but Solas erased it for you? And the companions, well. If you don't want to talk about him, they won't force you. Same with anyone else, like Isabela. Solas is smart, he would know that the people around you would know he was dead, and may very well mention it in front of you. You think he wouldn't have something in place?

So yeah, next time something comes up that makes you go, "this is bad writing, I can't like this game, how can you like this game?" Maybe ... Look at it from another angle? A couple angles? Think about what could be happening offscreen? Or if you really just don't like the game or the characters... Why would you want to make others feel bad if they do? Not to be harsh, because also if you have things you don't like, that's valid and it doesn't mean you can't express yourself. But that doesn't mean nobody should like them.

Love you all ❤️

[aparticularbandit]

thoughts on enogiri ?

Yeah, yeah!

Honestly, I really love imagining them pre-Killing Game.

I love the idea of Kyoko Kirigiri who has no idea about anything regarding love or relationships and who is always and only detective and who doesn't intentionally keep herself closed off or separate from her classmates but just naturally is those things - like, let's be real, Kyoko has never really had a childhood. Jin tried up until he abandoned her, and even then, she was going on constant trips with her grandfather, she was never really staying in one location for very long, Kyoko has no idea how to actually have a friend at all and has been taught that friendships and family and all that other stuff MUST be seen as LESS THAN being a detective - and, yes, Yui tried, but the entirety of Danganronpa Kirigiri is Kyoko having a moment and then closing back up again because hey, look, this hurt, and I screwed up by trying, and I'm never gonna forget that I screwed up and I can't do this again - that's what the gloves are for!

So like. Kyoko who is this bundle of trauma and training and doesn't know how to people even if she wanted to people and isn't sure that she does want to people because the one time she did people it literally, quite literally blew up in her face--

Being literally adopted by Junko Enoshima who does not know how to keep her mouth shut and cannot take no for an answer and it does not matter how much Kyoko goes off by herself, Junko is going to chase after her because no, you are my friend now, and you don't get to escape this, I'm choosing you, and I don't care, and you're MINE.

Because let's be real. Junko preys on the vulnerable. And when it comes to interpersonal relationships, Kyoko is vulnerable. Kyoko is very strong in who and what she is, although she occasionally has doubts over the whole being a detective is more important than the people you care for thing, but she's very secure in who and what she is.

And Junko says, look, here is this entire world you are shutting yourself off from, and I want you to be part of it, and I'm not taking no for an answer. You don't have to be with anyone else, but you have to be with me, and you're going to like it, and you're going to like me, you're going to love me, even if you don't want to, even if you're scared and vulnerable. Even if no one else wants you, I want you.

Choose me.

Kyoko being warmed by that. Because she really, truly is alone. And she doesn't want to be. And when someone as insistent as Junko reaches out and says you don't have to be alone, eventually Kyoko will say okay and cling to the one person that she has. Because she's all she has.

And that's what Junko wants.

Abusers take lengths to separate their victims from their support system, but if we're honest here? Kyoko never had a support system. Her dad abandoned her. Her grandfather thinks she's just fine on her own. Yui is dead. Her mom is dead. Her other grandfather is dead. Kyoko has Kyoko.

....

And, in this case, Junko.

Who is exactly not the person you want her to have.

(Junko doesn't have to convince Kyoko she's alone. Kyoko already knows that. Junko just has to convince her that she's the only one who will push through her barriers and stick with her no matter what. And that's not hard.)

Semi-Related, someone made a comment early on with OAEI (that's...the fic I've been posting; I'll link to it) that the first game feels very much like it's Junko and Kyoko's story, like Kyoko is meant to be the protagonist and Makoto's...there and not really a concern until after Kyoko goes to bring him back, and like. (They did a much better job explaining this than my overview.) That rings so true to me. So much of THH is so personal to Kyoko, from the murder of her dad to the tidbits that are left for her, specifically, to find (and are absolutely NOT meant for Makoto, which is why he gets knocked out and has the relevant secret information stolen from him), to the endgame investigations revealing that Kyoko was still her dad's password (which means, yes, he did still care about her) and the present of her dad's bones wrapped up just for her to find--

Makoto's the protagonist, sure, and he becomes the Ultimate Hope, sure, but the Killing Game is so much about the relationship between Junko and Kyoko.

The whole thing is a murder mystery.

A present.

Wrapped up for her girlfriend.

Because she loves her.

With the end driving her into despair just the same as Junko is.

(Except for Makoto getting in the way.)

I just.

I love the dynamic of them so much. I love exploring them.

They're cute.

[gaykarstaagforever]

I understand that. But I'm also a big believer that a work has to stand on its own. Like, context can add depth and appreciation, but the piece has to work as a thing without me having to know the background.

And as a thing - a short-ish horror movie - it just isn't compelling or scary in the slightest.

It's better than I gave it credit for. It's not stupid and goofy. It's just goofy.

This is painfully an effective horror game that they did as a movie instead, and it really needs to be a game. Obviously it was heavily inspired by Silent Hill, and Silent Hill worked BECAUSE it was a game. Sure, Silent Hill was inspired by movies like Jacob's Ladder. But they took that and ran with it in a way only a game could, and transformed it into something more. This is going from a game back to a movie, and it isn't a good enough movie to pull that off. It needs to be playable, explorable, open to letting a player discover its (shallow) secrets on their own. Minus that, it just doesn't work.

Credit where credit is due, Kane is great at mixing effects shots in with on-location filming, making a seamless whole that creates a surreal nightmare world. That's great. That's why The Backrooms was so cool.

But that can't carry this. It really is death by a thousand cuts, here. The protagonist / cameraman needs to shut up, because he sounds like an actor trying to seem scared. The spooky soundtrack is totally counter to the "abandoned mall being filmed by a rando" vibe.

Why did he go down those SCP stairs, and how did he expect that to turn out, honestly? Why is there a mall underground, and why is he seemingly shocked that the mall underground is a confusing labyrinth that is trying to kill him?

If it was just an abandoned mall a YouTuber went into and then it got surreal, fine. But this setup just ruins this for me.

Why is the power even on if it's an abandoned subterranean mall? Then why do the lights come on, and then fuck with him? Is it just here to lure people in? Is this Purgatory or Hell? Fine, Silent Hill did that. But James didn't go down unbelievable creepy stairs to get there. Who would?

The giant isn't scary. It is an art project on a cart that doesn't do anything. If it moved or talked or flew or something, that would be scary. But it's just a weird immobile puppet on a cart. That's...that's not anything.

Why would the emergency exit to the rooftop be anything but a trick? How is there a rooftop and skylights in a mall underground? Obviously, because it's a creepy monster mall. But the cameraman KNOWS that! He went down all those stairs! We SAW that!

And he's laying dead in the woods in the end. Fine. It was all in his head or something. Great. That's what Jacob's Ladder did. ...So, what? What does that mean? That alone doesn't say anything.

As it stands, this is a mediocre PG version of Jacob's Ladder. And that's fine. People can redo old ideas, especially for younger peoole who don't know the old ones. But I DO know the old ones, and the old one in this case is way more effective and insightful than this. Me being in this position doesn't make me better or "right," it just makes me older. But that's what I am. And I think The Oldest View is a mid redux of Jacob's Ladder, that would have worked way better as a 30 minute video game.

There might be subtext here, about the ruins of Boomer capitalism festering abandoned beneath the surface of our world, forgotten giants always threatening to destroy us. And great, that's an interesting idea. But not much is done with it here. Like, this movie just points at that idea and goes "Huh? HUH?!" Okay, sure. But what about that? What are you saying about that? Shrugging after saying a cool idea is what you do in a blog post, not an hour-long movie.

The easiest thing to do here is to say I'm just too old to appreciate this, and maybe that's true. But that doesn't feel fair to me or this art. I like lots of stuff younger people do. The Backrooms was very good as a horror metaphor for alienation and anxiety and being overwhelmed by a highly-structured yet still chaotic world, built by forgotten people. And The Oldest View goes back to that well, in its way. But it doesn't do anything more with it. And that's bad, because Kane already did a good movie about that.

Maybe consuming art like this has changed now, where we're expected to know all of the lore and context from outside of the piece to "get" it. With how the internet works now, that is doable. And if that's how it is, that's how it is. I just feel like that makes things like this kind of inevitably disposable, because in 5, 10, 15 years when access to that context disappears, all we're left with is the object itself. And it's not meant to be consumed without it. And that leaves it a poorer object for it.

Maybe the movie itself will be gone in that time. Maybe that's how this works. I suppose that's something to contemplate, in and of itself. Like the internet as a whole is doomed to become an abandoned mall, filled with forgotten monsters with no purpose anymore.

And I suppose that alone is pretty scary.

...But that doesn't make The Oldest View itself any better as a horror movie. Meh.

I don't want to be mean to Kane Pixels, because he's young and very talented. And The Backrooms was very good.

But The Oldest View is stupid and goofy and that's just how it is.

Maybe the 12 year olds like it and that's good enough. Fine. But I'm not 12 and I thought it was stupid and goofy.

Focus on your strengths, guys. Not trendy FPS children's horror content. Because the sun sets on that the moment these kids turn 13.

[morallygreyvigilante]

Someone messaged me about my thoughts on the three Daganronpa characters in my banner, so I'm answering here.

Simple answer? They're my favourites from the main three games.

Long answer? Well...

Trigger Happy Havoc - Makoto Naegi

Okay, so to start off with, my initial introduction to Danganronpa was through the anime so I only really knew about the THH cast (and later, the SDR2 cast, but I'll get to that in a bit) and it wasn't until later on that I got into the games themselves.

Honestly one of the things that struck me about Makoto is how underrated he is. A lot of people tend to prefer Hajime or the protagonists from V3 which, y'know, fair enough. We all have our preferences.

Makoto is honestly pretty impressive, and I know some people might say that he's kind of generic as far as protagonists go. And maybe that's true, but if you look at him from the context of the setting he's in and not what his character role is? There's definitely something interesting there.

Makoto himself points out time and time again that he's fairly average, but he really isn't, or at least not in the way he seems to think he is. You throw an average person in a killing game and chances are they're gonna break, they're gonna give up, especially when you consider the kinds of people he's trapped with. But he doesn't, Makoto doesn't give up.

Sure he gets close to breaking a couple of times but nothing ever really pushes him over that edge (at least, not in the killing game itself). Hell, the guy got framed twice and almost executed once, and he still didn't break. He's had to vote classmates guilty, knowing that they'll die, and he still didn't break.

Also he cares so much about his classmates, people who (as far as he's aware) he's only ever known as participants in the killing game. The one person he does have any memory of tried to frame him, and he never really seems to hold any kind of grudge over it. He mentions that he'll carry their deaths with him, which is a pretty heavy thing for anyone to do, especially in an environment where your life is constantly on the line. But he does it.

Then he becomes the Ultimate Hope, and people don't really talk about it as much as they should. In this setting they're in hope is kind of a big thing, Makoto goes from being completely average - a "nobody" - and becomes this revered figure. And not many people talk about how difficult that must've been to deal with, and Makoto himself never really seems to mention it either.

And then there's that scene in the Future Arc of the anime, and Makoto finally does break. He finds out that Kyoko died, and that in some twisted way he was partially responsible for it, and he breaks. Which, honestly? It felt right.

Makoto is the Ultimate Hope, yes. But he's still human, not some ideal. And when that video starts playing, we finally see just how difficult things were for him.

He gets thrown into another killing game after he'd already escaped one, he sees one of the people he's come to care for die and because of the twisted rules they're playing by he thinks it's his fault. Then there's the video. And what does Makoto see? He sees his fallen classmates and what do they tell him? That he should've died instead of them.

Makoto's been dealing with survivor's guilt since the first game, he's had to see someone else he cared about die, one of the people he'd helped save during that first game. And now he was being told, by the people he couldn't save, that he should've died. Makoto breaks.

It would've been easy to claim that the whole Ultimate Hope thing makes him immune to despair, but it doesn't. Makoto isn't superhuman, he's fallible just like everyone else and that's what I like about his character. Even after becoming the Ultimate Hope, even after he became this kind of 'saviour' figure, he's still just a normal person. Even when everything's said and done, he's still that average dude who's probably a touch too optimistic for his own good.

Goodbye Despair - Chiaki Nanami

Oh boy, Chiaki gives me so many feels. A lot of characters in this series are pretty tragic, but Chiaki in particular really highlights just how unfair this entire thing was.

We see during the Despair Arc just how much Chiaki brought her classmates together, we see how all these eccentric personalities started to mesh together just because she was willing to put in the effort.

We know these characters are talented, but don't really share their talents with each other all that much because a lot of the time their talents aren't really things that they can share that easily. But then we see Chiaki including her classmates, we see them playing games with her despite knowing that they'll probably lose, something which they're probably not used to at this point. And they enjoy it.

What makes it so tragic, is that that closeness is exactly what made it so easy for them to fall into despair. We see the class unite when they thought Chiaki was in danger, we them work together to try to save her. And then they don't. They fail and they have to watch her die a gruesome death, one that they couldn't prevent. And it breaks them.

Chiaki is such a tragic character, because her efforts to bring them together only made their fall that much easier. And the worst part? There wasn't even anything she could do about it.

Then, there was the killing game. And Chiaki's there.

What strikes me about Chiaki's part in the killing game, is what happens towards the end. Yet again, Chiaki ends up dying, and yet again her death was something that she couldn't do anything about. She was the blackened yes, but she didn't set out with the intention of killing anyone. She was the blackened in a case where the murder was set up by the victim themselves, and she was the one who took the fall.

The whole thing was a bit more complicated than that, but that's a topic for another day. But the thing that struck me the most about that trial wasn't what happened during it, but what happened at the end. Chiaki didn't try to plead she was innocent, she didn't fight what was about to happen, instead she chose to reassure her classmates. She chose to comfort them, to make them know they made the right choice.

And then there's the actual ending. The ending of SDR2 was so bittersweet. Because on the one hand, it was a simulation, no one had actually died. But the Chiaki in the killing game wasn't real, the Chiaki in the killing game wouldn't wake up with them. The real Chiaki died at the start of the tragedy, the real Chiaki died probably thinking she'd failed them, the real Chiaki was gone.

Honestly it would probably be more accurate to refer to Despair Arc Chiaki and SDR2 Chiaki as two separate characters. But they're both equally tragic for very different yet similar reasons so I feel it's appropriate for this post to talk about them both.

Killing Harmony - Kokichi Ouma

And now for the gremlin. I've already talked about Kokichi a lot on this blog so I probably won't go too in depth here since I've already shared a lot of the thoughts I have about him.

But, generally speaking? Kokichi is really intriguing. There's so much we don't really know about him (well, about his game persona, since we don't really know anything about the pre-game V3 cast) and what we do know is pretty suspect simply because it's Kokichi.

This guy is a walking mystery to begin with, but then we find out later on about his plan to masquerade as the mastermind and it adds a whole new layer to pretty much everything that he said or did previously. There's just so many different ways to interpret a lot of his actions and motives, and I don't think anyone other than Kokichi himself truly knows what the correct answer is.

At an initial glance Kokichi looks a lot the villain of the story (at least up until the end of chapter 5) but he's so much more than that. I won't go as far as to say to say he was a hero, but I feel like just brushing him off as being 'evil' doesn't do his character justice.

Like I said, I'm not going to go too in-depth because I've already done that a lot for Kokichi and I don't really want to repeat myself too much.

But, if I had to pick out what really stuck with me in regards to Kokichi? It's how alone he really was. Kokichi was such a paranoid character, arguably the most paranoid to be introduced in this series so far. Sure there were characters he was probably close to, and we see how one death in particular affected him - how genuine that response was is open to interpretation - but he never really seemed to form connection like the other characters did. And when you consider his plan to masquerade as the mastermind, you understand why.

But for a character who seemed so determined to push everyone away, his plan wouldn't have worked at all if he didn't have the cooperation of at least one person. And sure, the plan didn't end up working, but it came pretty close and he wasn't even there to see it.

I've said in a previous post that trust is a pretty significant theme when it comes to Kokichi, more specifically that he doesn't trust anyone (at least at the start). But when it came to enacting his plan? He needed to trust someone.

There's more that I could say about Kokichi, but I've said a lot of it already so I won't.

[scalproie]

One of the things I don’t understand about the pmd fandom is that people legit hate dusknoir even after getting both sides (kinda) of the story yet are chill with gengar who as far as I remember was a dick just because. I’m lukewarm on the chonky (purple) ghost but I WILL fight someone for dusknoir. I mean have you seen him? Friend shaped and equipped with spine snapping huggy arms. And he looks very polite.

I can’t fault anyone for wanting to survive no matter what because they’re afraid. That’s such a human concept and it wouldn’t make sense to not empathize or at least sympathize with it. Not saying what he did was okay, but before he tried to kill you and your partner, he saved your life out of instinct. He was already hailed as a great guy before that and honestly wouldn’t have been blamed if he didn’t save the protagonists. So it was all a good deed just to be good.

Dusknoir is a complex character and it’s okay to dislike him, but you can’t ignore that boiled down he’s one of the more real characters in this 2D Pokémon spinoff.

Sorry for the long post! I just had to go of, and reading your tags fueled that fire. 🐈

For starters I'm gonna say that I very much agree and overall feel the same way.

I think people are more chill with Gengar because there was no real "betrayal" in rescue team, like you said, Gengar was an antagonistic force since the very beginning as you met him, so him being a snitch was almost... expected? And yeah you hate him but it doesn't have the same impact, when he get a "reveal" as the human who left Gardevoir you're more like "of course he is that son of a-". He does get... well I can't excatly called it a redemption, but he gets character development at the end of the game if you read the subtext and far into the post game. I know Gengar gets thrown with the four others of the "betrayal gang" (and its true!), but if if we draw a direct comparaison, Skuntank is the Gengar of eot/d/s (could you IMAGINE THO, If SKUNTANK was the agent sent by Primal Dialga? I'm losing it just thinking about it)

Dusknoir on other hand. They did a wonderful job at mixing the formula this time around because YEAH. Like you said, he does help you at Amp Plains just because and I'll never shut up about it.

(Even if we do consider the alternative, that he only did it to keep a good image, like yeah he's probably like 25 levels too high for Amp Plais and co to be worrying for him but still, he's already super respected and when you look at his dialogue when he remember what happens at this time of year in Amp Plains, it reads as 100% genuine.)

Anyway, I can't speak for everyone, but I feel that Dusknoir is so well remembered and lowkey hated because there's this deep sense of betrayal, that other games have tried to replicate ever since? As the og, He IS the reason "pmd makes you have trust issues" is a meme. He was your ally for 3 or 4 whole chapters? And then does a 180° and is responsible (not really but when you first play you don't put two and two together) for one of the darkest part of the game you experience, I mean he's the one who takes you there, and the whole Future Of Darkness deal was really heavy on me as a kid. The betrayal doesn't really come out of nowhere but the "smirk" scene was a pretty long time ago, and some people say it's obvious he's a bad guy cause "just look at him" but I personally didn't saw it then.

He also was really easy to hate in time and darkness, I know I sure did, when you didn't have the whole story, and if you played those games before, the special episode you experience some years later comes off as a nice reveal, but I personally only started to think about his character years after in my second playthrough when I was capable of thinking about it more deeply. And now at this point it's genuine fondness and nostalgia for one of the first complex villain/character of my childhood.

But also he's really easy to make fun of.

[kotekie]

Colress and redemption

A ramble by me here we mc go.

Key point that needs to be made really clear.

I am not talking about whether colress deserves to be redeemed. That is a different topic and I'm just focusing on how I find a colress redemption arc to be so gosh darn fascinating.

Secondly, this is focusing upon game Colress. Anime and manga not included.

Thirdly, I have not completed bw2 or sun and moon but I did do my best to research everything and I reread all his dialogue on bulbapedia before doing this ramble.

All clear? Okay let's go.

In my honest opinion Colress is an absolutely fascinating character to have a redemption arc and honestly skipping over it I find to be a crime.

Colress is a grey character. That's kinda his whole deal but let's be honest his shade of grey... is a bit darker considering bw2 events. Then again it is... difficult to write a purely grey character. Overall. He is a grey character.

He's not the typical character you would want to see a redemption arc for. Typically those types of characters have some kind of tragic element, I.e good character turned bad due to traumatic event. Usually they have someone to pull them back or try to help them become better.

Colress has no one.

The closest bond Colress has to anyone is Ghetsis and I'll get to him later.

Sure Colress works with people but he never really has any friends. Nor any family from what we see.

He is alone.

This is important because Colress is very influenced by certain people. Mainly, people whom he holds some kind of respect for.

No more is this evident then in Bw2. It's by his interactions with Ghetsis the plasma frigate incident happens. It's by his interactions with the bw2 protagonist that he starts to change and eventually disbands team plasma.

We even see the influence of the bw2 protagonist in alola. He referers to 'that trainer he once met' and he mentions that its bonds between humans and pokemon that draws out the full power between humans and pokemon as he had learnt in BW2. Yet even in Alola he is still doing pokemon fusion. Which is. Well. Not the best thing to put simply. Which, is a remnant of Ghetsis's influence.

Speaking of which.

I am not suggesting Colress and Ghetsis are friends. At all. What I am saying... is that Ghetsis is likely the closest thing Colress had to a friend.

I am not going to debate whether or not he actually despises Ghetsis but I will say that he does somewhat care for him. This comes from his line in ultra sun and moon where after yeeting RR Ghetsis back into his world he says "I can only hope that the taste of defeat will keep that Ghetsis out of trouble in his world" which if you think about it... That is a very odd thing to say about someone like Ghetsis unless on some level you care about them.

That's something sad I found about Colress. In game Ghetsis is probably the closest thing he has to a friend. Perhaps maybe the bw2 protag but it never seems to evolve into a friendship or develop to a deeper level then the one he has with Ghetsis and I'll explain why I think so later.

You could argue he cares about the ultra sumo protags and lillie but I would like to bring up the possibility that he only cares about them because they would be useful for his research. After all the protags can use z moves and gets a legendary. That would be useful to his research.

All in all... I think this leads to a key component about Colress. He doesn't understand bonds between people and pokemon beyond a very basic level. It's limited. No more is this clear then in his research.

He focuses in on power.

He says his theme of research is to draw out the true 'potential' in pokemon. Yet often he talks about drawing out a pokemons power.

You could argue that Colress is actually seeking to draw out the full power of pokemon not potential. I would like to bring up the possibility that he does mean potential but to him potential = power.

He has a narrow view on what potential means. Just like he has a narrow view on relationships.

He fails to see that a pokemons potential is not just power but the ability to change, grow, help others and so on.

With relationships, he thinks it about mutual trust. Trust is important but it's the groundwork. Work colleagues trust each other. Friendships go a bit beyond trust. Its loyalty, understanding and comfort, dedication and being able to be vulnerable around each other.

This also makes his bond between Ghetsis to me is quite sad.

We know that Colress prioritises his research above everything. It's kinda his whole thing. He works with people who will provide him with what he needs with his research.

Yet. He still Hope's that rr ghetsis doesn't get in trouble in his own world. A ghetsis that would provide no benefit to him yet he still doesn't want him to get into trouble. Colress cares about Ghetsis.

But as we know, Ghetsis is a manipulator and doesn't care about anyone but himself.

We know that Colress is influenced by the people he respects. Is it that far fetched that his warped views on pokemon potential and relationships came from his bond with Ghetsis? After all we do that Ghetsis's influence is still prevalent is sumo considering he willingly made a device for poke fusion. Again.

This is why I don't think he formed a friendship with the bw2 protag. If he did I don't think his views would be so narrow.

We see the potential. In bw2 he says when the player rebattles Colress that he is uncertain of where to go next but when he battles the protagonist the future seems clearer. If they had become friends he would have become better. He has the potential to become redeemed.

This is why I find the idea Colress having a redemption arc so fascinating. He has the potential to do so and surprisingly it easy.

He can become better. He just needs a better influence.

Yes I am saying the power of friendship can turn Colress its cheesy but there ya go.

I very much love the idea of a character learning to be good via the bonds they share with other people. Plus Colress's transformation wouldn't be quick it would be slow and take time. It's small acts that build up to make a massive change and personally I would love to read it tlajkssn.

But um ye.

Dats pretty much it.

Bonus: (abuse mention below)

I don't think Ghetsis abused Colress. Ghetsis is a tactical man. I agree he did likely abuse N but he would have done it in a way to brainwash N into thinking what he wanted him to think.

Ghetsis needs Colress's loyalty and it's really quite simple on how to do it. Fund his research.

However I do think that Ghetsis may want revenge. Colress is no longer useful so it's pretty much up in the air what he may do to him.

Also, Colress has never met N. N is the exact person Colress would want helping him in his research and Ghetsis would have known this. Having the two interact could prove disastrous to his plans as Colress would have told him that humans and pokemon can get along and N would've helped Colress in his research far more then Ghetsis ever could.

Also post bw N would have been the positive influence Colress would have needed to become redeemed just saying.

Sequel post:

Update post for story based on my analysis:

Edit: hey this is Koteki from the future just adding to a link to an analysis that helped fuel my own- I recommend you have a read through it cause it's very good. In these analysis I tried to keep it to my own thoughts but it was inspired by this analysis so here-

https://archiveofourown.org/works/13321335?view_adult=true

[magicrobins]

You seem to be a forerunner here on the whole Jaal issue so I hope you don't mind if I dump a whole bunch of asks on you (sorry in advance :c) While I'm very happy for him to be bi, it doesn't seem as simple to solve as 'swap dialogue pronouns and sara with scott'. It just feels like his romance so obviously caters to straight women and I want guys who romance Jaal to have a more fulfilling experience. (...)

Long answer - most under the cut!

Well thank you for asking! I’ve been with the #MakeJaalBi tag since it began so I’ve been trying to keep everyone up to date on it as much as I can. I actually was using the tag before we started to use it to get the devs and company’s attention, but it was this person’s idea for all of us to join together using the tag.

I hope I can answer your questions to the best of my ability and if anything still needs to be clarified please let me know. I’ve been really busy and tired lately so if I don’t make sense at some point, please let me know and I’ll try to word that part better or clarify what I meant. c: Also hope you don’t mind, I’m answering parts of your question as I read it. I’m reading your question as I type, hope that’s okay. Also, if any of the links in this don’t work, please let me know as that means I need to edit the links. ^^

Firstly, there is actual dialogue from Scott’s VA that was recorded for the romance, and we can assume he recorded enough for the whole romance ‘cause he seemed to assume that Jaal would be a bi romance. However, I don’t know if Jaal’s VA recorded anything that is specifically for a Scott Ryder romance because I haven’t seen any lines found or released. Now if some lines have been found, anyone who knows about them, please add the links to them to this post as I’d love to have that info.

I admittedly have not watched all of Jaal’s romance, I’ve just seen gifsets from it because it’s a bit painful for me to watch his romance right now because of everything that’s happened. However I wouldn’t be surprised if his romance is catered toward straight women - I believe we can argue that Peebee’s romance, or at least the sex scene, could be catered toward men because of how the Sara side of the romance is like a copycat of Scott’s side.

I don’t think swapping Sara for Scott in the mlm side of Jaal’s bi romance would solve the problem because the problem, itself, is the overall constant bi-erasure on Bioware’s part - I’ve known that Cullen was supposed to be a bi romance and I’ve heard the same about Solas and Sebastian though someone else would have to confirm those two as I’m not 100% sure, but that’s the Dragon Age team. What I’ve been told about the Mass Effect team is that Kaidan is believed to have almost been a bi romance in the first game (in the game’s code, itself, there are romance dialogue lines by male Shepard’s VA), and I’ve been informed that both Tali and Thane were going to be bi romances at one point. The problem is that whenever bi romances are cut, the romances are always made into straight romances rather than gay romances, giving off the feeling that Bioware caters toward its straight fans, whether or not this is true, this is how it comes off.

Now, I myself am bi (biromantic is part of my identity), however it’s necessary to remember that not all bi people are the same. ^^ You also have to remember that the romance lines we’re hearing for Jaal right now, we can easily say they’re meant for Sara. We have no clue if there’s a difference in the dialogue lines for Scott because so far, if these lines exist, they are unavailable for us. I would have to watch and compare other bi romances such as Peebee and Vetra’s, comparing what they say to Scott vs. Sara to see if there’s much of a difference. Sometimes in bi romances there are, and other times they’re not.

Most of the time when wanting a bi romance, I’ve seen that people don’t want the “gay” (using quotation marks because just because people of the same sex are dating doesn’t automatically make the relationship gay because the people in the relationship may not identify as gay, if that makes sense? Sorry if I didn’t explain that the best) half of the romance to be much, if any, different from the “straight” half. It’s often a complaint, looking at the Dragon Age team, that in Dragon Age 2, when romancing Anders, Anders tells a male Hawke about his romantic history with Karl, a man, but he doesn’t mention it to a female Hawke at all. I’ve seen that many fans of Anders’ romance wish he would tell a female Hawke that as well.

Most of the time, when I’ve seen differences between male protags and female protags romancing a bi character, it’s been in small, little bits such as compliments or ways the character refers to the protagonist. Let’s look at the Dragon Age team again for this (I’ve played more Dragon Age romances than I have Mass Effect so I apologize if majority of my examples are for Dragon Age). With Zevran’s romance, when Morrigan asks him in a party banter his reasoning for staying with them, Zevran says “ We all have our reasons for doing what we do.” however the following line depends on the sex of his protagonist (I’m using “sex” instead of “gender” because a lot of fans headcanon their protagonists with nonbinary gender identities, as I do). When romancing a female Warden, Zevran says “Mine happen to come with a set of lovely eyes.” while when romancing a male Warden, he says “Mine happen to come with a set of strong hands.” Often times, from what I’ve seen, any dialogue changes are something simple like that.

I think, when romancing Jaal, it’d be up to LGBTQ+ men (I’m using “LGBTQ+” instead of generalizing to “queer” because I know there are people in the community who do not like that word and I don’t want to offend anyone

A lot of them in fact aren’t happy with how Gil’s romance feels so much centered around gay men not being able to have babies (which ignores the existence of trans gay men) and they don’t like how often Gil talks about Jill and how she comes off as pressuring him to have a child. Now Gil’s romance didn’t come off that way to me when I first watched it, but again, I’m not a LGBTQ+ man, I don’t get to decide what’s good representation for them or not.

At this point though, let me point out that not all LGBTQ+ men have to agree on whether or not something is good representation for them. If you’re a LGBTQ+ man and you’re happy with Gil and/or Reyes and their romances, your feelings and opinions are still 100% valid just like those who are not happy.

Most of the frustration at Reyes’ romance, from what I’ve gathered, comes down to the fact that he is considered a fling (and Gil is not a squadmate and thus has less romance cutscenes than squadmate romances and less material and both Gil and Reyes’ cutscenes fade to black and you never get a sex scene like Cora or Peebee, though Liam and Vetra don’t have a sex scene from what I’ve heard either). However since the differences in how Reyes dances with Sara vs. Scott have been pointed out, many are upset about that as well. Reyes’ romance very much feels catered toward straight women.

I would honestly love for Jaal’s writer to come out and say if she/he/they (idk who wrote Jaal) wrote him as bi or not, but due to contracts, I doubt that will happen. There is coding in the game that very much suggests Jaal was meant to be bi and considering Bioware’s history with bi-erasure, it’s easy to believe that.

Now when it comes to Jaal flirting with other women on the crew, bisexuals can have preferences. Looking at Dragon Age, Zevran states his preference for women, but he still loves and adores a male Warden as much as he does a female Warden. A male Warden flirting with him doesn’t stop him playfully flirting with women in the party (see comments he has toward Wynne, which are jokingly of course. He seems to enjoy getting on Wynne’s nerves. I love Zevran so much lol). Jaal can very well have a preference for women (he has dated women in the past, I’ve heard) and still be 100% bi. Having a preference and/or having a history with only one sex doesn’t make someone any less bi (don’t worry, I don’t think you were implying it made someone less bi

It’s very possible that Jaal could act differently to a male Ryder. Every bi person is different. Some act differently when with someone of the same sex or opposite sex, some don’t. If anyone knows if Peebee or Vetra act different depending on Ryder’s sex, please let me know because I haven’t watched their romances yet. I definitely do think LGBTQ+ men would enjoy the romantic and sappy parts of the romance because it’d be different from mlm relationships being sexualized and fetishized. From what I’ve been seeing in the #MakeJaalBi, majority of people in the tag want Scott to be able to have that romantic, sappy romance.

Typically with bi romances, scenes are the same regardless of the protagonist’s sex, though there are small dialogue differences sometimes, like I talked about above. However the changes to cutscenes usually just include taking into consideration the differences between male and female bodies in the game - such as height differences and body shapes. For the most part, I’ve seen that the cutscenes themselves stay the same. Let’s look at Josephine’s romance in Dragon Age Inquisition. *SPOILERS FOR JOSEPHINE’S ROMANCE:* in the scene where you’re about to duel for Josephine, when she jumps into the Inquisitor’s arm, the Inquisitor lifts her up regardless of sex. I’ve seen this cutscene for both male and female Inquisitors and see no real differences.

However I’d like to point out, I’m not an expert on making games, this is all just my assumptions and what I’ve observed. I don’t know anything about making actual games and cutscenes.

People are allowed to ship who they want (I’m not saying you’re saying they’re not allowed to, don’t worry

When it comes to the code, if Jaal wasn’t originally bi, I don’t see why that code should be there - if the code is real. Let me point out that no one from Bioware or the Mass Effect team have authenticated the code. If the code is real, I don’t understand why it would be in the game if they never planned on Jaal being bi at all. That would just confuse me and if that’s the case and the code is real, I’d like to ask the devs why that code is in the game when they never planned on making Jaal bi. However if the code is real, chances are at one point they did plan on making Jaal bi.

I WOULD HAVE LOVED A GAY MALE TURIAN. Like holy shit yes please.

However the main issue with this whole Jaal thing is that we went from Mass Effect 3 who had Kaidan, a squadmate, as a romance available to male Shepards to no male squadmates available for a male Ryder. And from what I’ve heard - and I could be wrong - Jaal plays a big part in the game’s plot? Or one of the big plots? Overall though it feels like to the fans that Andromeda has taken a step back when it comes to mlm representation because they went from having a squadmate (Kaidan) and a crewmate (Steve) in Mass Effect 3 to a crewmate (Gil) and a fling (Reyes). I believe I pointed out earlier that non-squadmate romances get way less content than squadmate romances, but let me get some examples, okay? c:

Gil’s whole romance (uploaded by DanaDuchy) is 19:13 in length, Reyes’ whole romance (also uploaded by DanaDuchy) is 17:58, and let’s compare them to Cora’s. Cora’s whole romance (uploaded by Gamer’s Little Playground) is 27:17 (Peebeee’s romance is even longer). Now the time difference may not seem like much, but majority of squadmate romances are as long as Cora’s, if not longer. If they’re less than Cora’s, it’s usually not by much. (Again, if I’m wrong, please correct me. This is what I’ve been hearing for a long time now, though, that non-squadmate romances always have less content than squadmate romance).

I agree that this is a big mess. I think if Jaal was originally going to be bi and then cut and made straight, Bioware should have seen this whole thing coming because this isn’t their first time erasing the mlm half of a bi male romance. The queerbaiting they did also adds to the fans being upset - In my opinion this post here really helps explain it. That post also really helps to show that it looks like Scott’s VA really did think we’d have a male squadmate romanceable by a male Ryder. That post also goes into talking about the code.

I do think that a patch to make Jaal’s romance bi would be a bandage, but at this point I think that bandage is very much needed. Bioware and the Mass Effect team are going to lose fans without that bandage - whether or not anyone thinks it’s right for them to lose fans over this, we can’t deny that it will happen and is happening (especially if you read some of the #MakeJaalBi tweets). This bandage though if what we want. You have to cover up the wound, you have to apply some pressure to get it to stop bleeding. Bioware and the Mass Effect team need to bandage our wounds, in a metaphorical sense, before they can work on healing these wounds.

Healing these actual wounds, I would suggest should happen in the next game. They need to make a bi!Jaal patch for Andromeda as a bandage and then continue to work toward better LGBTQ+, specifically mlm, representation in their games. If they bring back the Andromeda crew in the next game, add way more to Gil’s romance. Don’t have Gil’s romance fade to black after just a little bit of kissing on a bed because that really pissed people off, especially after they saw how explicit Cora and Peebee’s romances can get (also Jaal’s romance gets explicit, and mlm fans feel that if Jaal was originally going to be bi, the one explicit mlm romance was cut and that’s understandably upsetting). I would also say that add more to Reyes’ romance. They can keep Reyes on his planet, but make his romance more official than a fling and also make sure that intimate moments with Scott aren’t stiff when compared to Sara’s.

Also in future games, add more mlm romance options in general, and don’t make them all human. LGBTQ+ men in the fandom want to romance hot male aliens like everyone else gets to romance the hot aliens. A gay male Turian or Quarian I think the fans would love that.

Making Jaal bi would certainly come off as damage control, and that’s what it would be, but it would also be a sign that the devs and Bioware listen to their LGBTQ+ and mlm fans and actually give two shits about these fans feeling hurt and betrayed once again.

Let’s also look at the Angara real quick. Gay marriage is a thing for the Angara. Yet all Angaran romance options (I believe there is a female Angaran romance that’s considered a fling) are heterosexual. This doesn’t add up to the fans, including myself.

But anyways, making Jaal bi would be, in a sense, damage control that Bioware and their devs desperately need in my opinion. If they make Jaal bi, the devs will get shit, I know for sure, from homophobic/biphobic fans about “giving in” and they’ll say we bullied or harassed them into getting what we want (when in fact we’ve been making sure the tag is used positively and that no one is bullying the devs ‘cause we are taking the possibility that they can’t say anything due to contracts seriously. If anyone is using the tag negatively, we don’t support them and how they’re using the tag).

Don’t worry, I didn’t take this as a “vehement stance against bi!Jaal.” ^^ You were very kind and I’d rather people be like you and just ask/talk this out than attack the tag (someone on Twitter literally said whoever started #MakeJaalBi should kill themselves :| I’d link to the tweet, but I’ve blocked and reported that person so I can’t get to that tweet).

I really hoped this helped, and if you have any more questions or anything else, I’m always free to talk (well free-ish. Currently in the process of moving, so I’ll get back to anyone as soon as I can. I do have some comments on another #MakeJaalBi post that I need to eventually reply to. >