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llilyrose · 7 months ago

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So, you know that ISAT au I mentioned in my yass-girlboss King post??

HHHHHEEEERE WE GO .... info below keep reading!!! lots of words!!!! In Stars And Time FULL spoilers!!!!!

(Note: The Reset AU will be posted on @slowlysoluminary but i will be reblogging from my main)

There are some really interesting Siffrin-Meets-The-King-First aus that float around. I see them sometime! they're great! But I, as an adoring King fan, had to sit down and ask myself:

"So, uhh, like why?"

AND I DID SOME THINKING!!!!!

The King notices you're looping in Act 3. That's great! Not for Siffrin, but great narratively. If he notices it in that loop specifically, I feel like he would notice in other loops, too.

So, Act 5. The King notices how much of a formidable opponent siffrin is (among other things), acknowledges he's from the same country, recognizes wish craft, yadda yadda yadda.

He wants Siffrin to understand and resonate with his reasons for trapping an entire country in time, and while Siffrin is busy in his mind space fighting Mal Du Pays, the King makes a wish. AND HE LOOPS!!!!!??????

... Uhh, kind of? Not really. It resets the timeline all the way back to when the country was erased, but instead of the King having full memory, they're more like... vague snippets that hint at what he once was.

So, um! The first part of the AU is about the King's 10-year-long descent into madness. It's heavily condensed but it's there!! there's lore there!! I'm a king fan he needs a backstory.

"His name is Lazare" HE HAD TO HAVE A NAME BEFORE HIS KING DAYS... it's heavily implied the King wasn't his original name, and my headcanon helpfully supplied that he underwent a Change inside the house during his rise to power. I think there's like, a Head Defender? And the King was Head Defender, with full access to all libraries inside the house, when he started going crazy.

At 22 he loses all his memory while travelling in Vaugarde. Nobody knows his name so he comes up with one! He meets Siffrin 4 years later and they both travel Vaugarde together.

He becomes a defender at 29 because we see firsthand how INVESTED this dude is in Vaugarde. He wants, NEEDS this country to be safe!! he has a lot of patriotism!!! He's not actively searching for what happened to him or his country, he's just accepted it and is building himself up as a person.

oh boy .. when he turns 31 he becomes Head Defender.... And when he starts reading higher-access books throughout the house documenting a disappearing country? He gets MORBIDLY curious. And... well... this fixation leads him down the rabbit hole that got him where he is today! Except, this time, with Siffrin on his side...?

Yup! Siffrin is here! They've been here the whole time! Siffrin watches a man he's grown to love and adore fall into the Deep End. And he would find the strength to be mad about what he's doing if it weren't for the fact he was super sympathetic!!! ugh!!! sympathy!!!

Siffrin agrees with the King... but not really? He agrees with his reasons but completely disagrees with the way he's going about it. The change from Lazare to King was gradual, but towards the end he treats Siffrin more like an object of study than a friend.

The King takes his cloak and hat to study the stitching, the King won't let him cut or dye his hair again because he wants (NEEDS) this still image of his culture, etc.

Siffrin pretends his behavior doesn't bother him (because the King goes full Mansplain Manipulate Malewife on him if he voices his dissent) and keeps sneaking away from the King using his hat-less/cloak-less disguise.

In doing so, he meets a wild Mirabelle! It becomes a habit to visit her and the villagers under this "disguise" (it's only convincing in the way that Clark Kent is convincing) and he's feeling that same friendship with them that he used to back when the King was Lazarus.

... Until the House gets frozen? And the king starts Freezing People In Time For Real? No warning? Siffrin is HORRIFIED, rightfully, and also super upset. Partly because Mirabelle "got frozen" (she did not get frozen) and partly because the king has TOTALLY LOST HIS MIND NOW. no trace or remnant of who he used to be. but siffrin wants to hold on.

and then Siffrin gets stuck in a time loop! Whoops! Honest mistake!

"How does he get stuck in a Time Loop if there's no party to stick with?" ok so. of course he's going to learn Wish Craft from the King, duh. The King tells him literally everything about rhe country as he discovers it (albeit, in incoherent rambles.). And he also has his own muscle memory to draw from!

In desperation, he makes a wish: Save Vaugarde/Sav the King.

"Which one of those two is it?" Idk! That's what he spends the timeloops finding out!

Oh, wait, now that I've talked about the time loops, I CAN TALK ABOUT LOOP!!! LOOP IS NEW AND DIFFERENT!!!

^^ This was the initial ref sheet i made while brainstorming for this au (and also the sheet that birthed King In Magical Girl Poses)

"So what's loop's deal?" yeah, um, that's the thing? Loop doesn't know either!

Loop is not hiding their identity! Much like King, they domn't remember anything until afterthe Reset. They're Siffrin, yes, but not Siffrin from SASASA:AP. They're Siffrin from In Stars and Time. They're THE Siffrin that the King's wish Reset!

Thus, Loop looks very different!!!! And acts a little bit different!!! Siffrin is the only one who can see Loop, for the time being, and they follow him throughout the loops instead of staying stagnant under the Favor Tree.

They don't like the idea of not knowing who they are, or where they're from. Siffrin sympathizes with the star, initially thinking that they just... had the same thing happen to them that happened to the king? But the reason Loop follows Siffrin through the house is because they NEED to know who they used to be, and what in the Universe happened to them. Certain things trigger certain memories, and... it certainly doesn't help that the party enters the fray.

"So was the King's wish not important?" THE KING'S WISH WAS VERY IMPORTANT.

Not only did it CAUSE the reset, but it gave King the precise tools to get a timeline that fulfilled his wish (It's not the Universe's fault he lost himself and his only chance).

BUT ALSO!! ALSOOOOOOO!!!! THE KING'S WISH CORRUPTED THE WHOLE TIMELINE.

Loops are meant to reset to the day before, with no one"s memory remaining except for Siffrin's.

This loop completely Reset the timeline.

The King kept hints of his memories from the past.

The party gets dejá vū from the moment they meet to the moment they step foot in the house. They feel like something is missing.

Loop shouldn't be here. Loop should be... Loop. Loop didn't wish to be here - it's a direct violaton of his initial wish to stay with his friends, but it's a wish that technically got overwritten when the Reset happened?

Ironically, Siffrin is the only one Out Of The Loop (hehe)

,,,,,,,,,

"okay so what's the stuff IN the timeloop?" you see. you seeeeee. I've been worldbuilding so that I can figure that out. And I still don't know..... I'm setting it up with this post so I can elaborate on anything later (asks are appreciated)

"You should write/draw about this" I am! Ao3 is llilyrose but idk if I'll end up posting anything there. Of course, my tumblr is llilyrose, too....

"You stole this from user llilyrose on ISAT discord!" um, look at my url again. thx

"What if I have questions about the worldbuilding/characters/etc." send an ask, fool.... I'd really appreciate it .....

#isat king #isat loop #isat siffrin #isat au #isat fanart #in stars and time #isat reset au #op #my writing #to reset a kingpin

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apoloadonisandnarcissus · 10 days ago

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Understanding “Wuthering Heights” inspiration in “Nosferatu” (2024)

Did anyone ordered the horror version of “Wuthering Heights”? Because Robert Eggers delivered.

Ellen and Orlok are toxic as hell; this should go without saying. Their whole deal is about pure obsession, persecution, sex and death. It’s a blend of hatred and passion, all consuming and self-destructive, inspired by Catherine and Heathcliff from Emily Brontë’s “Wuthering Heights” as confirmed by Robert Eggers. Orlok both disgusts and attracts Ellen. It’s “unhealthy and parasitic form of love” and there’s a “mutual yearning” between these characters, and a love triangle with Thomas, like Lily-Rose Depp says, as Ellen is in love with them both:

“This demonic, dark fairy tale could be a young woman torn between two men, both representing different parts of what she wants. The desire and disgust serves as a mirror for the shame that we feel, certainly the shame that I’m sure a lot of women felt at the time.”

We are also told Ellen both hates and enjoys her psychosexual connection (dreams, possession, etc.) with Orlok, being riddled with guilt and shame, due to Victorian views of sex (as Lily-Rose Depp explains).

Catherine and Heathcliff from “Wuthering Heights” are one of the darkest pairs in English literature, and even Robert Eggers call them “one of the great demon lover stories of all time”, and how the reader is always wondering about the ambiguity of Heathcliff’s feelings for Catherine, if he loves her or not, if he wants to possess or to destroy her. Robert Eggers also said he returned to “Wuthering Heights” a lot while writing “Nosferatu” script.

“At first it was sweet, I had never known such bliss. Yet it turned to torture, it would kill me. […] He is my shame! He is my melancholy! He took me as his lover then, and now he has come back. He discovered our marriage and has come back!”

“Wuthering Heights” (2011)

How deep does this inspiration runs in the film? Can it help us to understand Ellen and Orlok’s dynamic? And the love triangle with Thomas? And even the ending?

This “ambiguity” also seems to be Eggers’ goal with Ellen and Orlok’s relationship on his adaptation of “Nosferatu”: the dialogue shows the hatred, while the love is represented in the symbolism of the lilacs, and the lust/passion with their body language.

We have some interesting references to Catherine on Ellen’s backstory (when she talks to Von Franz); she liked playing in the woods as a child, and her father called her “his little changeling girl” (as in the European folklore of children kidnapped by fairies or demons and a substitute being left in their place), implying she was mischievous and wild, like Catherine herself. In her teenage years, like Catherine, she develops an intense, passionate and secret relationship with Orlok/Heathcliff. While Catherine and Heathcliff had the moors, Ellen and Orlok had a garden of lilacs (according to the prologue, and since we have no other indication, let’s assume that was their usual “meeting spot”).

In both cases, these relationships are socially inappropriate and sort of forbidden (Heathcliff’s ethnicity and poverty; and Orlok is a undead demon vampire), and they would make Ellen/Catherine into a social pariah, dead to society (in Ellen’s case, literally) should they commit to it. Which is why they don’t, and choose Edgar/Thomas instead.

“Wuthering Heights” (1992)

Ellen’s wild and passionate affair with Orlok came to an end when she met and married Thomas Hutter; like Catherine and Heathcliff when she met Edgar Linton. Both Thomas and Edgar are gentlemen, graceful and well-mannered, embodied with civilized virtues. Catherine loves Edgar because he’s handsome, young, cheerful and rich, and marries him to fulfill societal expectations, but her love for Heathcliff is ever present, haunting and tormenting her.

I’ll add a personal note here: while I loved “Nosferatu”, I think the previous relationship between Ellen and Orlok should have been more fleshed-out on-screen, during the prologue. Because the entire story feels a bit contrived due to that lack of context. We only saw her summoning him and when he revealed himself to her, and the rest of the clues about their shared past are all over the place, and are causing a lot of misunderstanding on the audience. Eggers probably didn’t want to “humanize” his monster too much and keep the horror element, but the message gets a bit “lost on translation”.

Why does Ellen loves Thomas? She says to Von Franz she became “as normal” when she met him, and we have several mentions of how his love saves her. He represents her chance at a normal life (societal expectations), and she sees him as her savior. In a way, Catherine also saw Edgar as her “savior” from a life of poverty, the life she would have had if she married Heathcliff, even though she considers him her soulmate. Ellen’s “epilepsies” stopped when she met Thomas; as Catherine also loses her “wild ways” when she meets Edgar. Nevertheless, Orlok’s memory is always haunting her (like Catherine with Heathcliff), as symbolized by the lilacs on her wedding outfit, her gowns, and even her perfume.

Thomas also shares similar traits with Edgar: kind, polite, loyal and is a good and supportive husband to Ellen/Catherine, even though they don’t fully understand their emotional turmoil/darkness, they stand by them. Both characters have a gentle and nurturing nature, and try to provide Ellen/Catherine with a comfortable and stable life. While Edgar is rich, Thomas is hard-working. They will both be grieving widowers. Like Edgar, Thomas is the antithesis to Orlok/Heathcliff in this story. Edgar is a model of tenderness and constancy, like Thomas himself; while Heathcliff/Orlok are the complete opposite.

“Wuthering Heights” (Minisseries, 2009)

Like Catherine and Edgar, Thomas and Ellen’s love is marked by kindness, and a desire for stability, but is always haunted by Orlok/Heathcliff passionate and destructive love/obsession. In both stories, this leads to tragedy, suffering and emotional pain for the three characters.

In her heart, Catherine wants to be with Heathcliff, but her mind tells her she must marry Edgar. She’s deeply conflicted about the whole ordeal, torn between her love for two men, and her own nature vs. social expectations of her. This is also what we see with Ellen, when she tells Thomas about her dream of marrying Death (Orlok) on their wedding day. And how she has never been so happy in her entire life as in that moment. And the scent of lilacs was strong in the rain, symbolizing her connection with Orlok.

Both Orlok and Heathcliff become obsessed in getting revenge for the way Ellen/Catherine left them, planning their entire existences around the goal of destroying Catherine and Edgar’s families, after he returns to Wuthering Heights. Which is, pretty much, what Orlok does in “Nosferatu”, by targeting Thomas and the Hardings. Heathcliff violent, bitter and vengeful nature is revealed in this plot, and he’s ruthless and merciless.

Which, again, is very similar to Orlok’s actions in Wisburg (even thought they were already a part of the original story, Eggers gave it a new layer of intention). However, and even though he feels deeply betrayed by Ellen, Orlok (like Heathcliff) never targets her, directly, but wants to torment her by destroying her loved ones, as revenge for leaving him and marrying Thomas/Edgar instead. "You are my affliction", says Orlok. Of course, this is taken to an extreme on “Nosferatu” because it’s a horror film.

“You teach me now how cruel you've been - cruel and false. Why did you despise me? Why did you betray your own heart, Cathy? I have not one word of comfort - you deserve this."

Once he returns to Wuthering Heights, Heathcliff visits Catherine and Edgar’s house often, and Catherine herself can’t take her eyes off him; which parallels Ellen’s “hysteric fits” in “Nosferatu”; as Orlok coming between Ellen and Thomas. Like Catherine, Ellen is also distress by these visits (“epilepsies”) but finds it extremely hard to resist engaging with Heathcliff/Orlok: “his pull on me is so terrible, so strong”. Catherine and Heathcliff’s separation did not change their feelings and they yearn for each other even more; in “Nosferatu” this is visible in Ellen and Orlok’s body language.

“You loved me then, what right had you to leave me? What right, answer me, for the poor fancy you felt for Linton? Because misery and degradation, and death, and nothing that God or Satan could inflict would have parted us, you, of your own will, did it. I have not broken your heart, you have broken it; and in breaking it, you have broken mine.”

When Edgar realizes the depth of Heathcliff’s influence on Catherine, he feels threatened, insecure and jealous. We see this on “Nosferatu” when Thomas has sex with Ellen after she tells him “you could never please me as he could”, as he gets insanely jealous of her words. This scene is also a reference to Catherine weaponizing Edgar and Heathcliff jealousy against each other; when she taunts Edgar for being weaker than Heathcliff, and rubs her marital happiness on Heathcliff’s face (we see this when Ellen tells Thomas to let Orlok see their love).

Like Edgar, Thomas also loves Ellen, deeply, but her “divided affections” cause him emotional pain and frustration, especially as Ellen/Catherine is drawn back to Orlok/Heathcliff: “Stop this, Ellen! I love you!” Even when Ellen’s connection with Orlok consumes her, Thomas remains loyal to her, like Edgar with Catherine. In “Nosferatu” we don’t know, but in “Wuthering Heights”, Edgar buries Catherine on the moors, after her death, and then has himself buried next to her, decades later, instead of his family crypt.

“Heathcliff would as soon lift a finger at you as the king would march his army against a colony of mice.”

We also see the rivalry between Thomas and Orlok in “Nosferatu”. Like in the original “Dracula” novel, the Count lures him into a trap by making him travel to his castle, where he steals the silver heart locket Ellen gave him, and bitterly says to Thomas “you are fortunate in your love”. Orlok smelling the strand of Ellen’s hair is also a reference to when Heathcliff does the same to Catherine. And then tries to kill him, but he manages to escape. Like Heathcliff, Orlok also speaks ill of Thomas to Ellen herself, weaponizing his greed, while implying Thomas doesn’t really love her. Heathcliff also says Edgar just performs his duty, while he’s the one who truly loves Catherine.

Heathcliff and Edgar’s fights cause the deterioration of Catherine’s health until she locks herself in her room, spiraling down into delirium and depression, tormented by nightmares and hallucinations. Catherine’s madness appears to be the reference for Ellen’s mental condition in the film. Catherine is also distressed and protests over Edgar’s response to her illness (retreating to society and his library). In “Nosferatu”, we can see this with Ellen’s distress over Thomas leaving her, at the beginning of the film, as he dismisses her prophetic dreams as “fancies”.

“Because I'm weak, my brain got confused, and I screamed unconsciously. Don't say anything; but stay with me. I dread sleeping: my dreams appal me.”

Catherine’s madness is a combination of things we also see in Ellen’s character. At its core is Catherine obsessive, tumultuous and passionate connection with Heathcliff. We see this with Ellen and Orlok, and she calls him “her melancholy” and “her shame”, as they share a deep, sexual and spiritual bond. Like Catherine and Edgar, Ellen’s marriage to Thomas is rooted in security, stability and social respectability, and it should be everything she’s supposed to desire and aspire, but it’s unfulfilling and suppresses her true nature (in Ellen’s case it’s her supernatural abilities, and she also wishes Thomas was more passionate).

This is also align with Lily-Rose Depp words:

“I think in a lot of ways, he's [Orlok] almost a symbol of the things that you don't want or that you shouldn't want, and yet you are so drawn to. I think a lot of what Ellen is going through is an internal battle between all of this darkness that she's always had within her, and then the light that she's trying to cling to. I think he [Orlok], of course, is the manifestation of that, of that darkness. We definitely wanted it to feel like a love-triangle in a lot of ways and it's a love story in the end. I think she really loves Thomas and I think she does though have this twisted yearning for this darker realm, and I think [Orlok] is the embodiment of that.”

Catherine feels trapped by her life choices which are a consequence of Victorian society, which has strict expectations of women regarding marriage, class and behavior. Her all-consuming love for Heathcliff, her unfulfilling but agreeable marriage to Edgar and her identity crisis, create a profound internal conflict that lead her to her tragic decline and premature death, as a consequence of her depression.

Both men suffer deeply with her death; Edgar with calm sadness (which is what we see with Thomas at the end of “Nosferatu”) while Heathcliff is full desolation and anguish, begging for her ghost to haunt him as he begins a path of self-destruction. Catherine’s ghost indeed haunts Heathcliff for eighteen years, and we see a reference to this on “Nosferatu”, too, when Anna Harding tells her husband: “Clara asked me today if Aunty Ellen has become a ghost.”

“It would degrade me to marry Heathcliff now; so he shall never know how I love him: and that, not because he’s handsome, Nelly, but because he’s more myself than I am.”

Like Catherine, Ellen doesn’t reveal the depth of her feelings for Orlok/Heathcliff to him until the bitter end, nor any character in the story, besides Nelly and Von Franz (and even then is very cryptic, which makes the audience think she has none, and that’s why the lilacs are there). But both Orlok and Heathcliff are very much aware of them, as Heathcliff says “you know as well as I do, that for every thought she spends on Linton, she spends a thousand on me!”

Orlok: “Your passion is bound to me.” Ellen: “You cannot love.” Orlok: “I- cannot. Yet, I cannot be sated without you. Remember how once we were? A moment. Remember?” Ellen: “I abhor you.” Orlok: “You are false!” Alexa play “Wuthering Heights” by Kate Bush

Catherine loves Heathcliff because their souls are the same: “He's more myself than I am. Whatever our souls are made of, his and mine are the same.” In “Nosferatu”, this translates in the covenant between Orlok and Ellen: “As our spirits are one, so too shall be our flesh. You are mine.” They also share the same nature; when Ellen says she has felt Orlok crawling like a serpent on her body, he says it’s her own nature, a nature she denies (“you denied yourself”). And while Catherine loves Edgar, she recognizes their spirits are “as different as a moonbeam from lightning, or frost from fire”; which is the same with Thomas and Ellen, as he worries about money and social status, and she doesn’t, he’s more restrained in his affections, while Ellen is more passionate.

This is aligned with Robert Eggers explanation, and so, indeed, the “Wuthering Heights” inspiration is very clear in this story:

“Ellen’s husband loves her, but he can’t understand these ‘hysteric’ and ‘melancholic’ feelings she’s experiencing, and he’s dismissive of her. The only person she really finds a connection with is this monster, and that love triangle is so compelling to me, partially because of how tragic it is.”

Edgar/Thomas represents safety and social stability (society), while Heathcliff/Orlok embodies wild passion and freedom (nature) in Catherine and Ellen’s narratives. In Ellen’s case this is even more evident with the corset symbolism (restrictive and cagey); in every scene she has with Orlok, she never wears a corset, as she’s usually on her nightgown. The only exception is when she wears her wedding dress in their final scene, and even then, she ends up fully naked before him, fully liberated from social restraint, fully embracing her nature (which can also be a reference to Carl Jung’s “assimilation/integration of shadow” theory).

Eggers also makes the distinction between “love” and “passion” in his script; Thomas is “love” while Orlok is “passion”. This has occult meaning, but it can also be a way of showing to the audience this polarization/dichotomy in Ellen’s narrative. Because Ellen equals “love” with “sacred” and “salvation” in the script; while “passion” is “unclean” and “abhorrent”. Which is very much in line with Victorian views of sex (passion) and marriage (love); “passionate sex” is sin and unholy (demonic); while “marriage” is love sanctified by religion (sacred).

Ellen spent the second act of the movie talking about how Thomas love has “saved” her from her connection with Orlok, and on the third act is Thomas himself who wants to embody the “savior” role; as he’s determined to destroy Orlok, and then runs to try and save Ellen. But Ellen begins the third act by saying to Von Franz: “I need no salvation”, and how she has always been true to her own nature, as Von Franz asks her to be true by it now, because only her can redeem them. But Ellen accepting her true nature means accepting Orlok, because they are one spirit, like Catherine and Heathcliff.

“I am Heathcliff! He’s always, always in my mind-not as a pleasure to myself, but as my own being. So don't talk of our separation again - it is impracticable.”

But Catherine wants to “have her cake and eat it too”, by having both Edgar and Heathcliff in her life, until she’s faced with the impossibility of having both, and is forced to choose.

We also see this happening in “Nosferatu”, but, unlike the novel (where it’s Edgar who gives her an ultimatum), here it’s Orlok who forces Ellen/Catherine to choose between him or Thomas/Edgar. It wouldn’t make any sense to be Thomas, let’s be honest. In both cases, this is not really a choice, because Catherine choosing Heathcliff would mean leaving her husband, damaging her reputation beyond repair, and she would be ruined. It would be want we call “social suicide”, nowadays. Ellen choosing Orlok means choosing “dead to society”, too, literally.

“Will you give up Heathcliff hereafter, or will you give up me? It is impossible for you to be my friend and his at the same time; and I absolutely require to know which you choose.”

The hopelessness of Catherine and Heathcliff love (besides all the angst), it’s that they can’t ever be together in life, and yet desire it strongly, which leads them both to their ends, on a path of self-destruction. They eventually blame each other, despise each other, while being drawn and attracted to one another. As Catherine goes deeper into madness, the more consumed and obsessed with Heathcliff and death she becomes, to the point she equals her love for him with death itself.

In “Nosferatu” we see this with Ellen and Orlok, too: “He stalks me in my dreams, all my sleeping thoughts are of him, every night-” and how she refers to Orlok as “death” (as he literally is in this story). Like Catherine and Heathcliff, it’s impossible for Ellen and Orlok to be together in the living world, as they can only be united in spirit/death: “you are not for the living. You are not for human kind”. And like Catherine and Heathcliff, this sets them both on a path of self-destruction, and torment for everyone around them, which only ends with their deaths.

Catherine is unable to choose, which will culminate with her premature death, as she’s tired and feels trapped in this physical world. This is what we see with Ellen in “Nosferatu”, since she saves Thomas’ life (+ everyone else) and dies alongside Orlok, breaking the curse of Nosferatu.

In “Nosferatu” we also have the reference to Catherine’s window, as we always see a window in connection with Ellen and Orlok. Symbolically, windows are a veil between life and death, and barrier to the supernatural. In “Wuthering Heights”, Catherine is often at the window, her ghost makes apparitions at the window, Heathcliff begs her ghost to come through his window. Doors and windows are usually connected with Catherine and Heathcliff’s separation and his inability to reach her. In “Nosferatu”, we also see this: in the prologue, Ellen’s window is wide open (when she meets and develops a relationship with Orlok), then it’s shut (symbolizing their separation) until the third act, when she asks him to come to her (union).

“He [Heathcliff] got on to the bed, and wrenched open the lattice, bursting, as he pulled at it, into an uncontrollable passion of tears. ‘Come in! come in!’ he sobbed. ‘Cathy, do come. Oh, do—once more! Oh! my heart’s darling! hear me, this time, Catherine, at last!’”

But does Ellen “have her cake and eat it too”? We have to look into “Wuthering Heights”, again:

As Catherine faces her imminent death, she and Heathcliff reach the height of their passion for each other, declaring that their souls will never be separated. Death separates them and it is death itself which unites their souls. We see this with Ellen and Orlok’s covenant in “Nosferatu”: “you shall be one with me ever-eternally”.

“I’ll not lie there by myself; they may bury me twelve feet deep, and throw the church down over me, but I won’t rest till you are with me. I never will!”

In death, Catherine realizes it was folly to choose Edgar over Heathcliff, because she has betrayed and killed herself in her process. “Can’t you see!? It doesn’t matter! We should never have married! We are already dead!” Ellen shouts at Thomas, after she accuses Orlok’s passion of turning to torture, “it would kill me”.

After Catherine’s death, Heathcliff is consumed by grief, and says he cannot live with his soul in the grave. When he goes to say goodbye to Catherine on her coffin, he places a lock of his hair in the locket around her neck. In “Nosferatu”, we have a reference to this when Ellen cuts a strand of her hair and places it her silver heart locket and gives it to Thomas at the beginning of the movie, but it’s Orlok who keeps it for himself.

“You said I killed you--haunt me then. The murdered do haunt their murderers. I believe--I know that ghosts have wandered the earth. Be with me always--take any form--drive me mad. Only do not leave me in this abyss, where I cannot find you! Oh, God! It is unutterable! I cannot live without my life! I cannot live without my soul!”

After Catherine’s death, Heathcliff goes deeper into revenge and cruelty, as he terrorizes everyone due to his anger, grief and frustration of being without her, as he becomes a deranged monster (like Orlok himself). For eighteen years, Catherine’s ghost haunts Heathcliff, and this gives him hope of being united with her after his own death, leading to his self-destruction, too. Which, again, we see in “Nosferatu”, as both Ellen and Orlok cause their own self-destruction in the living world. I already made the case about how this was something they both wanted in another post, so I won’t talk about it here, but the “Wuthering Heights” inspiration only strengthens that interpretation.

Now we need to go back to Catherine and Heathcliff’s final encounter. As she’s near death, she admits how much she longs for him, at last, and how them, as lovers, can’t be united in this world, only in death. We see this in “Nosferatu”, when Ellen fulfills her covenant with Orlok, and marries death. Catherine accuses Heathcliff of metaphorically “killing her”, while Orlok literally does in “Nosferatu”, by drinking her blood, and then be killed himself by sunlight.

“I wish I could hold you,’ she continued, bitterly, ‘till we were both dead!”

Heathcliff kisses and embraces Catherine, but can’t bear the agony of looking at her face, knowing she is going to die soon. In “Nosferatu” we also see Orlok looking away from Ellen when the sun is rising, and is reluctant to look at her, as she dies, until she compels him to face her. Is this a reference to “Wuthering Heights”, too? Because she embodies Catherine’s wish next, as they embrace until they are both dead.

“It is hard to forgive, and to look at those eyes, and feel those wasted hands,' he answered. 'Kiss me again; and don't let me see your eyes!”

Decades later, when Edgar dies, Heathcliff has Catherine’s coffin exhumed and asks the sexton to open it, because he wants to see her face. Then, he demanded the side of her coffin to be open, so his own coffin can be joined with hers, and their corpses united in death. Some get necrophilic vibes from this act, which can be also the reference to Ellen and Orlok sex scene (and also Friedrich and Anna’s). As they couldn’t be united in life, Heathcliff wants to be joined with her in death. Which is also what we see in “Nosferatu” with Ellen and Orlok.

This represents the feeling of incompleteness without each other and the desire and thirst to unite, the yearning to transgress the bonds of society and fuse with each other, which will culminate with the union of their corpses. Because Catherine is buried next to her husband, Edgar, after all.

“I was sleeping the last sleep by that sleeper, with my heart stopped and my cheek frozen against hers.”

After his death, Heathcliff is buried as per his wishes, next to Catherine, in the moors of Wuthering Heights. Their spirits are reunited in a realm where there’s no social bonds no class differences, and they can be together, at last. They return to their spiritual Wuthering Heights, where their love was free and possible; and we see Von Franz placing lilac flowers around Ellen and Orlok’s body, symbolizing their return to their lilac garden, as their corpses are united, like Catherine and Heathcliff’s.

“I believe the dead are at peace: but it is not right to speak of them with levity. […] They are afraid of nothing,’ I grumbled, watching their approach through the window. ‘Together, they would brave Satan and all his legions’.”

Afterwards, the people of the region swore they felt and saw Heathcliff and Catherine’s ghosts in the moors, walking together. Their union after death also brought a new era of harmony and peace to Wuthering Heights. “Redemption!” As Von Franz would say.

Interestingly enough, Von Franz also stares out of the window like the narrator in the final chapter of “Wuthering Heights”; “watching their approach through the window”? He’s also the one who brings and places the lilacs around Ellen and Orlok’s bodies, a tribute to their love.

“And so the maiden fair did offer up her love unto the beast, and with him lay in close embrace until first cockcrow, her willing sacrifice thus broke the curse and freed them from the plague of Nosferatu”.

The majority of people are misunderstanding this passage, because not only this is a Solomanari book (belongs to Orlok) but there is no mention of any “town” or the world in general here. This speaks of how the love and the willing sacrifice (death) of a maiden (Ellen) saved her and the beast (Orlok) from the curse of Nosferatu. “Them” is the maiden and the beast, Ellen and Orlok, and how her love for him and her death saved them both from the curse he had upon himself (Nosferatu). English is not even my mother language and even I can understand this.

As a consequence, her death also saved everyone else, including Thomas (because she loves him too). And so, she exchanges one last look of love with him, silently saying goodbye before departing to the spiritual realm alongside Orlok. So, indeed, Ellen “had her cake and eat it too”, at end, like Catherine; she couldn’t decide between the two men she loved, so she died, but was reunited in death with Heathcliff, and their spiritual union brought peace to “Wuthering Heights”, like Ellen and Orlok’s to Wisburg. While Edgar/Thomas had Catherine/Ellen’s love in life, Heathcliff/Orlok has it in death/spiritual world.

#nosferatu 2024 #Robert Eggers #wuthering heights #Count Orlok 2024 #catherine earnshaw #heathcliff #Ellen Hutter 2024 #edgar linton #Thomas Hutter 2024 #lily rose depp #Heathcliff x Catherine #Catherine x Heathcliff #orlok x Ellen #Ellen x Orlok

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iamnmbr3 · 5 months ago

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jk rowling: ok let's create a scene in which ginny is talked even by slytherins and that can be a build up for hinny. Such a hinny scene!!

Also jk rowling: ends up writing a drarry scene in which not only harry feels uncomfortable watching pansy stroking draco's hair, BUT ALSO DRACO SAYS GINNY IS NOT SPECIAL(can we talk about this??????!) *giggles*

I hate how suddenly in book 6 random characters who have no reason to say good things about her are suddenly acting like she's the Bestest Ever TM in order to tell the readers to like her - which really shows how weak as a character she is (in the later books - I think pre book 6 she was actually a good character).

We don't need all the Slytherins to go on and on about how awesome Hermione or Neville are. We don't need the Death Eaters to stage a conversation where they're all like 'dang! that Luna Lovegood sure is quirky and fun but also super good hearted and insightful and totally awesome!" or Arthur and Molly to be like 'you know that Snape sure is interesting and morally ambiguous. And don't even get me started on Voldemort - say what you will about the man, but he's got charisma! And what a fascinating backstory!" That would be ridiculous. And unnecessary. Because all those characters can stand on their own. Ginny can't and JKR over-compensates by trying to have other characters tell us how great she is but that actually just undermines her.

Which is a shame. Because Ginny had a ton of potential and I liked her way more in book 5 (and the previous books) when she actually had an arc and JKR wasn't flattening her out and trying to push her as the Love Interest TM at the expense of her character.

And yeah that whole scene is accidentally such drarry fodder. Here's the relevant passage.

I mean, Pansy mentions that people like Ginny and immediately looks at Draco but she can't be worried about Draco liking Ginny because Draco has literally just dismissed her. In fact, it's Blaise that she seems to be more worried about. And as soon as Blaise insults Ginny Pansy relaxes and looks happy. (So does Draco, incidentally). So Pansy looking at Draco seems more like she knows he might care about boys liking Ginny...boys like Harry Potter for example. Pansy's been hanging around with Draco for 5 years by this point. She's definitely noticed how he is about Harry. And yeah I know she's stroking Draco's hair but they don't seem to actually be dating. I think that's just Harry projecting.

And we know if they actually got together ever Harry would've mentioned it. So clearly Draco at least wasn't interested. And Pansy does end up marrying Blaise. So I read this scene as Pansy crushing on Blaise, Draco possibly lowkey crushing on Blaise and highkey crushing on Harry and also being super jealous of Ginny (bc he immediately clocked her fancying Harry...and Collin Creevey too tbh - just like Harry clocks everyone who even looks at Draco lol) and Pansy knowing it.

AND THEN after all this we get Harry hating on Pansy for looking like she's enjoying stroking Draco's hair followed by him getting hit directly on the head by a piece of luggage because he got distracted by the sight of Draco changing. And THEN he ends up immobilized and alone, entirely at Draco's mercy, while believing Draco to be a Death Eater (and being correct!) and he doesn't even feel worried that Draco will hurt him or hand him over to Voldemort...and he's right, because Draco doesn't. Absolutely wild. Book 6 is the drarry fic of all time. JKR did not intend or want it to be. But it is.

#asks #drarry #hpdm #h/d #Harry Potter #Draco Malfoy #tagging #anti hinny #anti ginny weasley #in case ppl want me to but i have nothing against the ship or the character or ppl who like either #harry potter/draco malfoy #harco #harry potter x draco malfoy #draco/harry #harry/draco

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artydonsgf · 9 months ago

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hi everyone here is art, tashi, and patrick with random headcanons i have of them<3 i have first time saying i love you headcanons coming up!

Art Donaldson

- incapable of fixing his face

- for example, if you guys are at a party n someone says something wild, he reacts SO viscerally

- literal whole body reaction

- extremely ticklish

- you found this out on accident, you were cuddling in bed and your foot poked him while you were adjusting yourself

- he reacted without meaning to and kicked you (not that hard)

- he felt so bad but you were dying from laughter, ofc he’s the ticklish type

- likes to bite you whenever you cuddle

- it started off as a joke but he genuinely loves to gently bite when you don’t expect it and hear your soft gasps in response

- it’s half because he thinks it’s cute n half because it kinda turns him on

- wants to impress you so bad that he’ll read up on something you like n then carefully drop it in the conversation

- he does it as nonchalantly as possible except it’s impossible for him to be truly nonchalant so he’s very obviously glancing at you with a small smile

- would unironically wear the i ❤️ my gf shirt

- little spoon champion

- likes when you’re little spoon but he LOVESSS when you’re big spoon

Tashi Duncan

- also totally incapable of fixing her face

- she can hide shock but she cannot hide dislike, if she doesn’t like something you will know

- hyperfixates on meals

- like she ate this breakfast wrap you randomly made for her for a month straight

- likes when you cook for her because she’ll stand behind you and hug you the whole time

- so dead serious about game night

- you are the love of her life but during game nights you are the enemy

- likes horror movies so she can cuddle up with you

- she’s not really that scared but it’s nice having you next to her when a jump scare pops up

- loves hand holding, she’ll seek out your hands n doesn’t even realize she’s doing it

- cute thing she does is she’ll craft backstories for random people you see walking down the street

- it’s hilarious because she gives very fleshed out background to people you see briefly

- “that guy? cheating on his wife with his secretary who’s also married and has a kid his age” she likes to make the stories messy

- will do anything to make you laugh, really truly obsessed with your face

Patrick Zweig

- he cannot whisper for the life of him

- sees a girl you had beef with in high school n he basically yells “oh my god is that the girl?? the one who had sex with your boyfriend??”

- it’s a mix of not caring n also just not being aware

- extreme tease but if you tease him back he’s heartbroken

- started doing this 👉🏽👈🏽 ironically just to fuck with you but he can’t stop doing it now

- “hey babe, can you please put my bag in the car?👉🏽👈🏽”

- it has consumed him

- extremely stubborn

- also very prideful, it absolutely kills him when he has to speak up n ask for something

- extreme staring problem

- if something crazy is happening in public, he’ll just stare even if it’s really obvious

- doesn’t let you carry your bag

- he can have 100 bags in his hands and he’ll still find a way to carry your little purse

just silly thoughts, enjoy!

#challengers #challengers headcanons #challengers drabble #challengers fic #art donaldson #patrick zweig #tashi duncan #art donaldson x reader #patrick zweig x reader #tashi duncan x reader #artydonsgf

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lucabyte · 9 months ago

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obligatory ramble about postcanon loop ask

also your art is amazing

Hiiiiiiiii :D thank you :)!!

and thank you for the excuse to post the. just absolute wall of text that i truncated down to form the tags of that post. (i did,,, hit the tag limit. i forgot tumblr had one of those...) so let me just paste that and tidy it up a bit...

I am putting this under a readmore because it's a bit long. but:

This is like. The General Context for all* of my postcanon doodles? (Except AUs obviously) Like this is the base idea I've been drawing them all in. So, feel free to backread with this in mind. I've basically had this 'postcanon' timeline set in my brain since finishing the game...

My general thoughts are that I like the idea of Loop (even if through dubiously ethical means) being able to slowly reintegrate with the party as a whole new person, because they are, in fact, their own person.

It's a muddle of thematic threads im pulling on and "wouldn't it be fucked up if", but. (at its core, it's powered by the fact that like, while narratively isat's theme of 'the only person who can truly take the first step to help you is yourself'. (wrt: loop helping the party help siffrin in act 5) which i LOVE AND IS GREAT NARRATIVELY…. would be super fucked up irl to learn that your friend 'learned as a lesson' while you stood by kinda uselessly. I know i'd be upset about it. but thats mostly background here. doesn't really come up. at least not until loop has to explain who they are and the party realises they had to fall back on literally themselves again for help, but i digress,)

The real core concept is: Occam's razor. It is like, inherently, a buckwild thing to accuse a person of being somehow a clone or copy of your friend. Even if they start vaguely alluding to a backstory it's far more likely they were some other person before all that. (I still think Odile has that theory in the back pocket but she's rational enough to know it's a really long shot without a solid explanation. and i think Loop deep down knows this, and would, if cornered into confessing, turn the situation around to go J'ACCUSE and make HER explain it instead. Ever longer dodging being direct with their emotions...)

And the party are nice! And if someone has changed and wants to keep stuff secret it's kind of not their business? (Though it's hard not to speculate… see: the main joke of the doodles) And they seem important to Siffrin so they just try to accept them abrasive quirks and all. And eventually the question of their prior identity just fades away since, well, they're Loop. Their friend Loop.

but yeah. personal headcanon is that a few months/weeks after picking up and getting aquainted with Nille** (since that was presumably the IMMEDIATE TASK postgame), Loop reappears (either after a literal period of nonexistance, or just spending a few months wandering the french countryside alone being attacked by wild dogs). Since Siffrin has had a while to be therapised by the party they're doing mostly okay, but Loop showing up and still being agitated/aggressive pulls them both into a bit of a backslide behaviourally and puts the party on the back foot again.

Hooowever, I do think that due to no longer being literally stewing in the worst pressure cooker of all time together, the two do mostly actually sort themselves out with productive conversation. (Via a cycle of: genuinely distressing argument -> weeeird lovebombing -> ok we're good -> repeat, that gets less intense over time)

Thus, allowing the party to just. Integrate loop as a new person. They and Siffrin shuffle into different ecological niches (Loop taking over stuff Siffrin is now too squeamish for, etc (see: hunting, mostly)), and while it's not exactly what Loop wanted they generally get that beggars can't be choosers and it's a pretty good deal. And the rest of the party does straight up just like them as a friend, especially when Loop quits trying to actively antagonise them after a few weeks of being around them, since they just can't keep up being mean to people they like forever.

As for how I think the truth eventually drags itself out. This is where I invoke The Isabeau Torment Nexus™. So its gonna get shippy here for a bit hold on.

Which is, I think giving them time before Loop reappears long enough that Siffrin and Iseabeau actually manage to become established, Isabeau has to be the one to nudge the pair of them and go. "Hey. You know we're in Vaugarde right. I'm okay with polyamory if we all communicate." Before Loop and Siffrin actually even acknowledge that whatever the fuck they have going on kinda looks a lot like a relationship of some kind. (or have already been agonising about that via fighting and arguing, depending) (Obviously this comes after Isa "Emotionally intelligent enough to keep a lid on the jealousy" Beau has managed to use that big brain of his to Not just go Scream somewhere on the daily because oh godddd they keep talking like theyre suicide-baiting each other jesus chriiist. is it overstepping his boundaries to bring that up?? god)

This, taking a bunch of the tension out of Loop and Isabeau's relationship (Since I imagine Loop is a. being weird for the obvious reasons and b. feeling kinda guilty about 'getting in the way of' Siffrin and Iseabeau), allows them to actually get close in a normal friend way. (I think an interesting turning point could be Isabeau actually taking Loop's side in an argument vs Siffrin, which would absolutely break Loop's brain. Especially if it's an argument that matters. Like what do you mean he isn't just going to play favourites. What?)

Then Isabeau, just actually open minded and charmed by Loop (and maybe even somewhat at Siffrin's suggestion?) tries to close the final open side on the polyamory triangle here and that's the final straw for Loop on "This lie by omission is too unethical to keep up, this is just actually sick and wrong. I can't do this while he doesn't know who I am." Though. Obviously it probably goes. Very poorly with emotions high like that. And the added element of several months of deceit. Getting dark here for a second but that dagger is going MISSING and so are THEY for a hot minute.

Then yaaay everything works out in the end 👍 yippieee!! all it took was maybe a lot of harrowed recontextualisation of all the weird shit your new friend said and did when it turns out they're your old friend. It's fine.

But yeah. this is basically the context all of my postcanon doodles have existed within? And those exist to give other people something to chew on. So this does too.

I suppose TL;DR: Imagine if sloopis almost fucking happens before isabeau knows who loop is. can you fucking imagine. can you imagine having to navigate that. nightmare.

*Yes this includes the implied cannibalism comic. Uhh. Comes part and parcel with headcanoning that Loop went way off the deep end similar to A5 Sif But Maybe Worse before giving in. Add weepy half-asleep confessions to murder wherever you see fit in your mind palace. 👍👍👍

**Re: Nille footnote. I don't have anywhere to put this besides here! I have some thoughts on Loop and Nille having an odd dynamic. I don't imagine Nille to be super gung-ho on trusting a bunch of adults (even if they are majority around her age) given their implied backstory. It's probably a big shock to the system, especially since Bambouche is a good couple hundred Kilometers up north from Dormont and these guys don't seem to have trains. She would've been unfrozen and without Bonnie for some time....

Which is to say: I think she's suspicious of them. I think she may be looking for excuses to distance herself, keep Bonnie safe. SO.... A new guy showing up? And antagonising the party? What do they know that I don't...? I should find out.

And since... Loop didn't ever know Nille, they have no ammunition or real reason to be cruel. Plus, if they're trying to stay on Bonnie's good side (SINCE... if Bonnie thought Loop was cringe they may as well kill themselves. In their mind.) they SUPER have no reason to antagonise Nille.

Mostly, they might be able to open up to each other easier than they can the rest of the party?

I feel like this resolves with Loop feeling compelled to apologise for what they and Siffrin let happen to Bonnie, though... Hmm... Depends on how you interpret Nille that they'd be glad nobody else had been told about that yet, or furious it had been secret this long. I lean toward the former.

#PHEW THIS IS LONG. i wrote some extra footnotes and tidied it up a bit. but uh. here you go! my personal headcanon baseline for postcanon.#i could probably elaborate more but that would get unwieldy. like i have opinions on loop's dynamics w each party member but. LONG POST...#lucabytetalks #isat #isat spoilers #in stars and time #isat loop #isiloop #sloopis #WONT be tagging everyone thats absurd. loop centric post though with a chunk about nille at the end #isat act 6 spoilers

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farfaras · 2 years ago

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Part 1.

Maybe if Steve acts casual Robin won’t even notice. She barely pays attention to him when she’s too busy rambling about her love life. Or lack there of. If Steve’s lucky, today is gonna be one of those days.

But Steve’s good luck probably ended the first time he took a look at a demogorgon.

“What is that?” Robin giggled. If she finds this amusing wait until she hears what actually happened.

“What?”

“Don’t play dumb. That only worked when I thought you were an actual idiot.” She rolled her eyes.

“Yeah well, I was hoping you wouldn’t notice.” Steve put on his family video vest and clocked in.

“What? I notice things!” Robin exclaimed when Steve made his way to the counter.

“Yeah, when you’re not too busy daydreaming about Vickie.”

“You’re changing the subject!”

“Objection!”

“Stop it!”

Steve sighed. How could you explain your friend sucked your neck to make your another friend jealous when you don’t even like said friend? Tricky.

Ugh. Robin was gonna make fun of him.

“You wouldn’t believe me.” Steve tried. It was a last resort to save himself from the embarrassment.

“Yeah, because I’ve never experienced anything out of the ordinary.” She raised an eyebrow. Steve knew she wouldn’t let it go. “When did you even go on a date, dingus? I don’t remember you telling me about it.”

“I didn’t go on a date.”

“Well then who did that?” She narrowed her eyes. “Ew! Are you in a friends with benefits situation?” She look scandalized and curious at the same time. “Because honestly Steve, I don’t think that’s your thing. I mean even if you try, it wouldn’t work out. You’re like an actual romantic. Wanting a serious relationship, yearning connection and all that shit. It would be cute if you weren’t kinda desperate sometimes.” Okay he had to cut her off if he wanted to keep his ego unbruised.

“Jesus! Okay! You don’t have to say it like I’m some loser who can’t get a girlfriend!” If he needed humbling he knew who to call now though.

“But you kind of are.”

“Do you want to know or not?” Even if he was embarrassed about the whole thing, he couldn’t lie and say he wasn’t hoping Robin would give him some insight. Once she stopped making fun of him. “It was Eddie.”

Her eyes widened in surprise and… excitement? “Holy shit! It finally happened?” What is she talking about now? “I thought I would actually have to wait another year at least for you guys to figure it out.” There’s nothing that makes Steve feel more inadequate than when he doesn’t get what people are talking about. “I mean anyone who’s got eyes could see how much you two liked each other and it’s cute but I was getting tired of the pining..” she trailed off when she saw how silent Steve was. “Why aren’t you as excited as me?”

Pining? Like each other? Did Robin think..? Did Eddie?

“What the fuck are you talking about?” He questioned. His mind was going through every interaction him and Eddie once had. Trying to analyze his own behavior to come up with an explanation as to why someone would think he likes Eddie.

“Oh god. I thought. Did you guys not like… get together?” She was hesitant. It felt like she was trying not to scare a wild animal.

“No.”

“I gotta stop running my mouth like that. I’m sorry.” She looked mortified and it would be funny if this was another situation. “But what? Why would he do that? I’m so lost here, Steve.”

Steve went through backstory first, then he started retelling the events of the other day. Including how he actually enjoyed himself a little. He might as well be a hundred percent transparent, she was his best friend after all.

“Robin, say something.” His best friend being silent was not something he was used to.

“I’m so confused.” She said.

“Me too.” His confusion was starting to fade. The answer right in front of his face.

“So you’re… not together? Even after that?”

“I don’t even like him like that!”

“But you said you liked it!”

“Who wouldn’t!”

“I wouldn’t! Steve, a boy giving me hickeys is one of my worst nightmares.” He knew that. He knew it meant something that he liked it. The question is if he’s ready to face what it means.

“I- I know, okay?”

“Steve, say the word and we’ll stop talking about this.” He loves his best friend. He doesn’t know what he’d do without her.

“No. I think I’m ready.” Steve muttered. Robin smiled gently at him and that was all the encouragement he needed to feel safe enough to say it out loud.

“I like him.”

They hugged.

“It kinda sucks that he doesn’t like me back though.”

Robin thunked her head on the counter.

#kinda rushed #don’t know if this is going anywhere #steddie #steveddie #steve x eddie #eddie x steve #steve harrington x eddie munson #steve harrington #eddie munson #robin buckley #stranger things #stranger things 4 #ficlet #mer writes sometimes #platonic stobin #i want what they have #steve and robin #eddie pov next ?? perhaps ?

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reddeadgirl5 · 1 month ago

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Sorry guys I don’t know how to use tumblr very well but yeah here is @noshirdalal answering my question: what would he like the story of a Charles Smith DLC be about. I’m imagining a whole script of this game in my head now.

English is not my first language so I can’t transcript the video very accurately since there are one or two words I didn’t quite catch but if someone wants to please be my guest! 🥰

I hope you don’t mind me sharing this here Noshir!! I’ll see you at your livestream today. 🫶🏻

——————-

Edit:

Transcript made kindly by @rockscanfly

Hi Mafalda! Man, I don’t know what’s happening, this is like the third time I’m trying to record this. Last time I tried to record it for some reason it didn’t, it didn’t take. So lemme try this again. Maybe I’m talking too much.

First of all I love the question. Charles Smith DLC? Ah, man, that’d be so cool! And I’ve gotten this question a couple of times. And I just love the idea that people are interested in Charles and wanna hear more of his story, I think that’s awesome.

I know you’re on tumblr, so I’m gonna try and keep this backstory short because maybe that’s what happened last time. Maybe I went too far.

So I think you’ve probably seen the headcanon I had for Charles as a young man. I’d love to do a game where you see him at the ‘Native American School’. In that climactic escape where he sets fire to the school in an effort to try and distract the staff. And also because the staff will have to get the kids out, right, while they fight the fire. But it turns out they don’t, they would rather the kids die while, you know, in the fire than let them go free.

And so Charles ends up putting himself in an even worse position because now he has to try and free these kids, survive the fire, get them out safely, there’s staff in the building. So now the staff are fighting the fire AND looking for Charles AND you know, as things get worse they realize the kids are leaving and so like, um. Charles is kind of tryin’ to do a bunch of things. Like, essentially a stealth mission until it isn’t and then he has to fight off these teachers and security, right?

And at the end of the day he gets everyone out, but a bunch of white folks die in the fire and so now he’s an outlaw, he’s on the run, he’s not really accepted anywhere. And I think that it’d be really cool to see, like a Red Dead game with a really, a really important stealth mechanic? Where, like he’s gotta survive, right? On his own. So like in town he’s picking pockets, and stealing food, stealing clothing. And then if he’s out in the wilds he’slike building snares and traps, he’s hunting game. And maybe kinda the mentors he meets along the way that teach him skills he didn’t have before that—and BECOMING what makes Charles so great in Red Dead 2, you know?

I think that could be really fun and really cool. But maybe that’s just me. I like games with like a really good stealth mechanic.

And then, if I had my druthers (giggling). Because this is just whatever I want, right? I would have a jump cut to after the events of Red Dead 2 and now Charles is up north fighting off the Pinkertons. And, um, and they put a massive bounty on his head so he’s fighting off bounty hunters AND Pinkertons AND trying to keep the Wapiti people safe.

And how that, how that goes. And now all these skills that we saw him build as a youth, right? The snares he used for like trapping small game and like his stealth skills and tracking and all that stuff, now we get to see him…We get to play as Charles and use all of that but now he’s using it to hunt Pinkertons, right? Like so he’s building large traps to like ensnare and kill Pinkertons and you know, like hiding in the wilderness. And basically using guerilla tactics, essentially, to take on a much larger, better armed force, mostly alone.

In a different cameo I talked about the headcanon of Sadie going south after the events of Red Dead 2 and actually building her own posse there, and it turns out—it eventually evolves into a bounty hunter agency that she runs. And, like, hot-headed Sadie has had to grow because now she’s got people she has to take care of and she’s a leader. And I think it’d be really cool if, you know, she receives this bounty and immediately knows, like ‘oh my god, its Charles’.

And so goes up North. Like there’s this massive battle raging, Charles is way out-gunned, he’s way out numbered, he’s taking shelter in like a barn. The fight’s been going on for a long, long time and Sadie comes to his rescue. So Sadie’s fighting outside the barn, Charles is inside trying to like survive and shoot and fend off all of these attackers.

And I dunno, I think it’d be really fun to have like a multi, like a two-player campaign where you get to play as Sadie AND Charles. Because they’re so different and I think it’d make for some like really cool chemistry. ‘Cause they care about each other a lot but like they see the world very differently, you know? And without that common goal, like common purpose of like John, or Arthur and the gang, like. You know, do they get along? I think the answer is yes but I’d love to see how all that plays out.

I dunno, I think that would be super cool. Of course this is just me nerding out and (giggling) Just saying all kinds of fantastic stuff without having to be the game dev that actually makes this game and makes it work.

But, um, yeah. I think it’d be really fun to play like Charles as a kid. Build those skills and then jump to, afterwards, and actually get to use those skills and still have that stealth mechanic. But now he’s using it in like a life or death fight against, you know, this army that’s been sent to dispatch him. Yeah, I’d play that game.

And by the way, have a wonderful happy holiday and Happy New Year! Thanks so much Mafalda!

#charles smith #rdr #red dead redemption #red dead redemption 2 #noshir dalal #dlc #headcanon #sadie adler #arthur morgan #john marston #charthur #cameo

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ficsinhistory · 13 days ago

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Sonic 4 and Amy Rose: How her character can be.

So…Sonic 3 is kinda stuck in my head and spinning like a microwave.

In particular, Amy Rose. I loved her cameo and her possible dynamic in the fourth movie with all characters plus her story made my writer’s ideas go WILD! So, I decided to do a silly little post about it!

I never played the games, just watched the movies, but I've done my search!

So let 's go!

(Spoilers to Sonic Movie 3)

Tagging @annymation @nerdyneko6373

BACKSTORY

I answered an ask before with some basic thoughts, but repeating here, Amy would have a widely new backstory, motivations, arc and narrative purpose while keeping her core: Unconditional love for all living things and a deeply Empathy.

From the mid-credits, we could see that Metal Sonic apparently came from the future, so not only we may have time travel but that Sonic 4 probs will be based on Sonic CD, which heavily has time travel and fate in its theme.

In the game, cards told Amy she would meet Sonic and she fell madly in love because…destiny said so. Ok, obviously, the movie will need a stronger reason for her to exist, and her role as a whole.

So, here's my theory:

Amy will be on a mission to protect Sonic to save the future from Metal domination.

She would be a little girl from the Little Planet, or a place where it came close, raised in an orphanage where she never was adopted. Her home would be destroyed because the Metal Army wants the Time Stones. From who doesn't know, the Time Stones are 7 stones that can fold time itself. A crazy power to fall on bad hands.

In this scenario, Amy would risk her life trying to save everyone, getting the stones first to use them to stop the Metal Army somehow. However, the time stones would why the Metals exist, because Sonic was defeated, before sending her to Earth (at the same age of Sonic or a little older, it depends) to protect the gems and Sonic. But there is a small problem: she doesn't know where he is!

So she would grow up running away from Metal Army and the GUN, who find her after their readers went crazy since she didn't travel through rings but by the Time Stones, which would generate a lot of chaos energy. Amy also would have a beef with this organization not only for persecute her but for… you know…destroy the future as is known!

You heard me right, they'd be the ones who made Metal to be a “prevention” against Sonic before they get out of control (if with the help of Robotinik, Stone or not is open) and dominate Earth and universe.

I also theorize that her being an orphan gave her attachment issues and feelings she will always be left behind, longing for a place to belong at least once since he could never stop running. Growing up with this mission of saving everyone by finding this specific boy and keeping the Stones safe would be the only constant in her “always running away to survive” life.

With those changes in the backstory, Amy Rose would become guardian of the Time Stones and an anomaly in the current timeline. With her latest pursuits settling her in New York (why Sonic ended up there is still a mystery, maybe his powers evolved?).

But not only that! She also would gain powers related to time. What I personally think is perfect for her. Sonic has speed, Tails his brain, Knuckles his strength, Shadow his teleport, Amy Rose, time.

In her case, time manipulation to some extent with chaos energy (and sure, Silver can do this but he already has psychic powers not to mention that there isn't really a reason in how he does it and I don't see any harm in transferring this ability to Amy, or even both of them having it in this universe, since Silver has more psychic powers as a trademark).

I think abilities related to seeing the future and past, allowing her to think strategically and would be great for her core traits. Imagine when you can know all about a person's story? Or even a second chance, like Ekko’s from Arcane? Whatever could be, I think is amazing giving Amy a proper ability that also could push her empathy, love and determination more.

Also with her being the last refugee for a dominated planet and timeline would give her more complexity and a compelling story. Making her the only chance that things can be different and save everyone would be a responsibility and pressure for. While Amy could do anything to make sure things change, because that is who she is.

Not only that, changing Amy’s backstory to protect Sonic can give their relationship a deeper foundation. With her, presumably coming to Earth not much younger than Sonic and always seeing him as her hope, is so cool! He would inspire her even before they knew each other. Imagine her powers showing some glimpses of him as Amy grows up with Sonic being the only constant in a life she always has to be running away.

That would give a cool nood to her debut in the video game but with a blast! Destiny indeed brings her and Sonic together, but now isn't about her. Is about this lifetime mission. Is Sonic’s life on the line. The Wachowski’s life.

Billions of lives across the universe on her shoulders. A hard mission she assumed because she loves those people and thinks all of them deserve a good life with freedom. That she has to try to get a better future.

She'd try to be a heroine, even if she was too young and this is a hell of a life. Because Amy Rose cares. She empathizes soo much! And always believes things can be different, better. What brings me to…

PERSONALITY AND TRAITS

Listen, I know she evolved a lot but…Amy, to be a movie character has to have a strong characterization. A thing thank God got better, but can get upgrades.

As I said above, with some story before Sonic like Shadow, Knuckles and Tails have, Amy can bring good points to establish her arc and persona.

First, this Amy would be more…traumatized. Sorry, but it is true. Everyone in these movies passed through the horrors, so should Amy.

The girl'd see her home falling on evil hands and be the only one who escaped, that's alone is terrible. Now, add the responsibility of fixing things, find and protect the only being in the universe that can change things and she doesn't have any idea where is AND being on her own for years in one place after another? The past would do a NUMBER on Amy Rose.

Because see, Amy at her core is a lovable and kind character. And I can see this being the reason that she doesn't give up fighting at the same time she beats herself. Is too much pressure and stress, to think about. And she cares. Because is Amy Rose, and she cares too much. Amy’d be anxious and perfectionist in the movies, with the constant memory of a terrible future looming above her head. She can’t relax, she can’t get attached to anything or anyone.

More than that, if Amy really is an orphan with no family, always left behind, she can start to think that the mission is more important than herself, which would bring? Exactly, sacrificial tendencies. Amy would do all she can to protect Sonic and the rest of the Wachowski, even this put her life constantly on the line. If your mission is to save billions and you don't have anyone to care about you, why would you?

Not only that but I think, because of her mission, Amy would be very lonely and independent. She doesn't allow rely on anyone, so she does it all by herself, without having others help her for so long. Amy may also not let herself dwell too much on her own sadness, being reserved with her emotions and avoiding talking about her past suffering in silence most of the time, leaving her, as well as her powers, unstable. Maybe working hard to put up a facade.

She also wouldn't be willing to sacrifice her loved ones, maybe prefering to die than to lose someone adopting, like in the games, a mentality of “between the world and you, I chose you” with her new found family. Again, pretty interesting conflit to her, and the whole save the world mission.

But not only angst makes a character, so Amy would also be kind, gentle, emphatic and forgiving. I can see her loving the Earth and the animals and humans in it, even if it was humans – the GUN who still persecutes her – that shattered her life in the first place and still gets in the way of the mission which is nothing more than cleaning up their mess because she believes that all life is valid.

Amy would want to help, raising the morale of others and feeling very compassionate (imo she also would be amazing giving advice). I also see her being the type that sees someone's needing help and doing that immediately. I can see her being gentle with Tails because he's this cute, smart, little kid or admiring Knuckles’ strength and instincts. Or helpful to Maddie and Tom because she accepts her. Always glad for the good actions of others.

She also would be persistent, feisty, hot-tempered and aggressive.

Fight for the future can wreck someone's nerves and Amy is kinda irrational and violent sometimes in the games and, to be honest, go girl! I mean, she destroyed and beheaded Metal Sonics like they were made of paper. The girl can fight and is pretty good at it! She did it for a long time, I can tell. Amy also would often be in touch with anger, with some moments that would make anyone regret annoying her. She's temperamental and it would be good to see it. Imagine seeing this little pink, cute, girl who almost has a heart attack because things don't go the way she planned or because she was bossed around. Amy always has been angry, let her be in the movies too!

Not only that, but this is my “Amy is a powerful chaos energy user” agenda. The girl's hammer was infused with chaos energy to such an extent that it glowed brightly and seemed to obey her commands from a distance (please, let her cuffs be limiter rings 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼). Not to mention her stealth skills as she approached machines made to track without being noticed.

Amy also would be resourceful, clearly living by herself for so long, would make her see different ways. And I don't know if she made her hammer or brought her or built but it's a point. Maybe using her time powers to heal herself?

I think she would also have some difficulty acknowledging her own feelings, due to years of constant travels and persecution. But it would be more like she doesn't know how to behave with her being kind of intense at times. Not only that, I think that because of this she may not understand some feelings that she is not used to, such as acceptance and attachment, not allowing herself to get too attached because thinks she'll have to leave soon.

And of course, a funny sense of humor. I think Amy cracks jokes at the most random moments, but she would also go down the route of witty observations, dry one-liners, and good-natured teasing. And she really has time powers, time travel references. And propensity for chaos and shenanigans cause, c'mon…girl hates GUN (and any authority let's be honest, she does whatever she wants) AND is a war refugee. Amy doesn't have the goody-two-shoes atitude, no way. If anything, she’s only less impulsive than the main cast in doing crazy shit, planning little to not get caught.

Amy would also have a strong belief in time and destiny. Having grown up on Little Planet with the Time Stones or at least them being prominent in her culture, she might have that mindset. Which would be fun since she's essentially trying to change the fate that was the end of her home and interfering.

My girl also would be a great leader. She would guide everyone on how to deal with the robotic threat that adapts to enemies and copies attacks very well. And also a love for adventures and emotion.

We can't forget her love for girly things. Amy is a girl who loves being one. I imagine she likes what all average girls like: music, books, fashion etc. I dare say that this is one of the most important traits to portray. Amy being more independent and a warrior should in no way erase how feminine she can and likes to be. The character was inspired by the average Japanese girl of the time, it would be a disservice to forget this very important trait. Not to mention that in the context of this story, it could give her comfort. Fighting your whole life is tiring and can destroy someone's spirit. So having these feminine hobbies and tastes could be a way for Amy to maintain her own sanity. To have something beyond the mission to define herself. An escape. And a funny way to put her obsessive traits in work like her being crazy about a saga she knows in a YouTube video's essay level.

And the greatest trait: Unconditional Love. Amy loves all things. It's her trait that has to be brought to the games. To all her interactions. It has to influence her decisions.

Amy has the type of compassion and kindness that would make this girl hold your hand, say she's on your side and fight with and for you. The do-good-because-you-can type. That inspires the best in others. She canonically remembers Shadow of Maria's compassion in the games. Amy Rose never gives up or left behind those who chose to do good. She gets out of her way to help a random bird in the games, for goodness' sake!

That's what they can't get wrong. If SCU!Sonic already has compassion, Amy has to irradiate it. Have this vibe at the moment you look at her. Is who she is. Love is her central trait. Not that Amy couldn't hate anything, she can. She has the temper to do it and is as any character. But Amy chose hope and mercy by default, not fighting.

She can be violent and angry as much as any girl is (which is a lot) but at the end of the day, would believe in the one she loves until the end without wavering and that cannot be ruled out. Amy is a loving person. An optimistic.

A girl that believes she can defy destiny by putting heart enough. An average little girl that chooses to put herself in danger in the name of others because of love and compassion.

With that covered…

DYNAMICS!

Oh boy I love this part!

To start, the Wachowski, more specifically, our colorful bunch: only child meet brothers.

That's it, fight me.

Look me in the eyes, and tell me she didn't give the energy to the girl that made everything by herself finds THE trio ever. Amy would love all of them and the boys would be thrilled with her (one more but I'll get there). Tom and Maddie? In the clouds! Maddie, especially.

First, Knuckles and Amy would be besties. Protectors of a powerful gem? Lost their home? Badass warriors? Sold. They would click in a blink of an eye! Let's recall Amy is pretty strong and a class A fighter. This boy just found his new sparring duo! Not only that, but Knuckles is a protector above everything and if my theory about Amy is true, she can relate more than anyone with the role: my life is devoted to a single purpose, protection. Imagine a scene where Knuckles stands his hand ro a handshake and Amy actually gives it back with a big smile and equal force.

Tails and Amy? She'd see Tails and would kill everyone in the room than herself if anything happened to him. He's the cutest little boy, c'mom. Tails? You see Amy's hammer? A gorgeous technological weapon? Nah, he's a simple boy. Plus, Amy is really gentle and Tails' main insecurity is people despising him. But if anything, she'd find him endearing, valuing him as a team member. This little kit would see this really cool pink girl who is kind and imprints on her like a baby duck. Is her sibling too now, your honor! She carried this boy on her back like a backpack whenever she could. I need to see them as the duo ever!

Now�� Sonic.

Fun fact, I'm not a Sonamy shipper, but I am a writer and man, and I love when a dynamic can be WILD.

To start: Amy is protecting Sonic. Period.

That girl doesn't find the boy randomly, no, no. She found him.

And if it is true, it makes me so FERAL! Because in a meta level, would change the Amy's damsel in distress portraying, placing Sonic as the one in need of protection and rescue. Would be amazing! On a narrative level? Epic, because now Sonic, the everyone's hero who always meets their new allies fighting them and after being friends with them, is the one someone fiercely defends against an enemy that can't be reasoned with. He's out of his comfort zone.

Sure, Tails saved him too, but Tails also is a young kid that needs his help. Amy? Don't let the pink fool you, girl is a menace. She destroyed at least a dozen of Metal Sonics alone when Sonic himself barely scratched one. She knows this enemy in the palm of her hand because, remember, this thing can copy abilities AND improve itself! Girl is fighting an AI made to fight and is winning!

Amy isn't a person who needs Sonic…is him that needs her.

Amy Rose has survived all this chaos all this time, she doesn't need a hero for herself. She needs one for the world, for the future.

Sonic has always fought villains like Ivo, or people who were fierce antagonists but became allies with him by extending a helping hand, like Shadow or Knuckles. Or even allies from the beginning, but who still depended heavily on external resources, like Tails.

Amy? Nah, girl can fight but not against him. On contraire, he is fighting for him. From the start. Total change. And it's so intense and incredible that I'm going to set aside a session just for it.

Amy and Sonic are equals in this version!

And God, this is AMAZING!

Tom Wachowski. The man would like Amy just for the fact that she saved his son. After all the saving him, saving future, and her being friend of Sonic (maybe more, I will cover later)? The man would be supportive as hell! Let's recall Tom is a helpful person as Amy and both would find a common ground in this. She would respect his leadership as the patriarch and Tom appreciate Amy's effort in defending his family.

But now…Maddie Wachowski. The movie can destroy me so bad here. First, Maddie would be thrilled to have another girl at home. But not only that. Maddie's a nurturing person. She's the emotional support, the doctor, the mother of the house. And Amy would align very much with Maddie's personality. She's this sweet, brave girl who's trying to save everyone and just wants to help all the time. Maybe Maddie feels relieved to have another girl in the house because Amy understands her position: Love through sacrifice as a loving and caring person.

Maddie only is a veterinarian because Tom bust his butt to make her happy. She willingly would move her whole life to SF because now was time to support her husband. Maddie also supported Tom and adopted the boys. This woman helped and was helped, loved and was loved, many times.

Both Maddie and Amy have this love in their essence. And how hard it can be for those who accept so deeply.

Maddie almost died a lot of times, so do her sons, and her husband who she loves so much too. Amy fights and hides and risks her life for this family. Love isn't easy. Can hurt.

Maddie almost lost her darling husband thanks to her adopted sons, aliens, that she accepted. Amy lost her home to humans that still want to kill her. But both don't give up on loving those others would hate. Because their caring and loving sides are bigger than any hate.

Just…Amy and Maddie man…

GUN. Oh, GUN…Amy would hate this organization's guts so much. They not only would make the things that destroyed her home and hurt billions but also their lack of empathy and complete disdain for others definitely put them as her public enemy number #1.

Shadow. You hear me right, Shadow, because, fun fact, they're kinda friends from what I could see in the games and he has a great respect for her. Amy literally inspired him to save Earth once and believes that Shadow is a good person, having faith in him to do the right thing. They're like siblings. And I need to see this in the cinema. They could bond through similar despise to GUN :D

Metal Sonic. Your enemy is just like the hero you forseek. I need more info to go deep but thinking in how Amy fights copies of what should be her “savior” is sooo mess up and endearing.

SONIC AND AMY

I told you they would have a separate part!

Like I said, I'm not a Sonamy shipper, I only watched the movies and Sonic Boom sometimes. But man, the grip the version of this duo got me should be studied.

They are a…controversial topic. Can see why, the foundation of them isn't good and they are kinda a mess. But in the movies? Oh man, how different things can be.

They will come from scratch in the movies which gives them a big advantage. No crazy behaviors or one-sided feelings. Is a fresh start!

As said, probably Amy will look out and protect Sonic for the Metal Army.

Which is great because it's not only an excellent reason to bring and keep the two together but it also avoids any of the obsessive stalking Amy had originally. No, she's looking for Sonic but to save his life and ensure the universe a good future. She's selfless, she takes Sonic as a person into consideration.

Which is good for Sonic too, since he will have an ally who is skilled in combat and who didn't start out wanting to kill him the first time. They will be equals, unlike Sonic who had to save Amy.

Now the dynamic. It's a... complicated topic. I understand why people are afraid it’ll be terrible with the writers apparently going the Sonamy route.

Some people fear that the film will be just that, that Amy will lose her personality in the name of romance or that they just aren't big fans of Sonamy because of how she was done in the games or because they have other preferences, which is valid.

But, at least in this version, I think it can work. And not only can, but be extremely well done and coherent, going beyond simply platonic and romantic.

To begin with, no matter how it develops, I firmly believe that their friendship and bond will be the strongest foundation of these two.

The games didn't start out focusing on Sonic and Amy's friendship, more in the romance-ish. However, the movie would change that. Instead of following the typical relationship story, I think the writers could explore more a route where they show why they are the person for each other.

While yes, because it was said by the directors that the plan involves a "romantic" route; the most important thing established for Amy and Sonic in the movies is to show why they work as a duo, why they get along in the first place rather than just romance and saying that they will be together. Will be about the bond.

To begin with: Amy and Sonic's versions of the movies are extremely compatible. As a whole, independent of the label.

Movie!Sonic is a brave but extremely traumatized boy. He has some trust issues and what all the people he loves and cares about have in common is that they are all undeniably selfless and good people. Tom protects and helps both people and animals. Maddie is a veterinarian who helps animals. Tailes is his little brother who always helps. Knuckles is his protective older brother. Even Shadow, at the moment he realized that the black hedgehog was just very traumatized and manipulated, Sonic had no problem putting aside any animosity after nearly killing him. Sonic grew up isolated, with his first guardian telling him he would be persecuted for his powers.

If there's one thing he values in people, it's kindness and goodness.

And these qualities Amy has plenty.

And I say more, while Sonic would be impressed by the rescue, he would trust and like Amy seeing how kind and concerned she's with people and animals (I mean, in the games, she’d this story about helping a bird). Sonic would admire her for her fighting skills, yes, but above all, he would value Amy for her compassionate and loving personality. Someone who is risking everything just to keep people safe, to keep him and his family safe.

Not only that, Amy is a deeply sensitive, forgiving and kind soul and that would be one of, if not the most, important points for her and Sonic's dynamic. This boy... has been through a lot. He's lost a mother figure, almost killed people, almost lost his dad and must surely have a lot of guilt. And if there's one type of person who knows how to deal with people with guilt, it's those with kindness and unconditional love.

Amy, in Sonic's POV, wouldn't be amazing because she knows how to fight or because of the really cool powers she’d have, but because of her ability to show love and kindness unconditionally even after all she has been.

He shows so much compassion throughout the movies, but I think what still really gets Sonic is to receive it. And Amy shows it easily, like breathing. If Sonic at some moment lost faith in himself, that he maybe doesn't deserve his family, if he loses in guilt, Amy will be there with all her trust and love.

Amy, on the other hand, would value Sonic as well.

She would grow up with this beacon of hope, this person who could put an end to the terrible future. But not only that, I believe that she had him as a role model, perhaps seeing lapses of Sonic's life, and how he always persisted even when alone and afraid. This would inspire her, he would not only be a hero, but like her hero. What she wants to be. Remembering that Amy would enter this mission purely to do good, the girl would be going through this. She didn't want to be a hero, maybe explore and have adventure, but not being in charge of countless lives so young. But she entered this because it was the only way to fix things, that doesn't mean she doesn't crack under pressure.

Sonic is not just the trigger that can save the world. He is the shattering of expectations. Someone so good and special that he can change an almost certain destiny. For Amy, Sonic would be the reason she doesn't give up, won't let this crazy endeavor go by and accept defeat. He is the fastest creature in the universe who not only breaks the sound barrier, but also writes fates. The simple fact that he lives makes a difference and this would inspire Amy that maybe she can too.

That a simple girl who threw herself against everything and everyone in a mission that could kill her in the name of change can be a heroine. That she doesn't need to accept bad things passively without fighting, that she can indeed change the timeline.

Sonic would be a reason for Amy. Someone who never gives up, who will try again and again, no matter how many times he falls. Who will keep running until he reaches the finish line.

What I mean is, that there is no shortage of real and profound reasons for these two to enjoy each other's company. Their personalities complement each other. Isn't just superficial reasons, but real, deep things that influence both of them.

Is a mutual connection they have that is different from anyone. That just exists between them. Is about building.

Development

Everyone talks about reverse Sonamy and I see the vision, but may I add: both are low-key crushing…except they don't see it.

We're talking about a boy who was isolated for ten years before having a family, carrying devastating traumas, and a girl who lost everything, is on the run without creating bonds for years also with devastating traumas.

C'mon, they don't know shit about romance.

And no, it's not that the passion isn't there, because it is... it's just that they don't know.

Starting with Sonic, maybe he'll notice the signs: his heart beating faster, his need to impress Amy, his nerves on edge...but don't connect the dots until someone points them out.

While Amy thinks he's a little weird but definitely endearing and heroic, and finds Sonic's actions silly but cute... and ends up attributing it to devotion and attachment to him in general.

Meanwhile, Maddie and Tom are nearly having a stroke because for the love of God they are so obvious while Tails and Knuckles also didn't get the why.

And while it might be a funny running joke, it also takes the pressure off the romance. They're not self-conscious about it. For them, they’re just new friends…with a weird amount of tension. But friends, noneless. Y'know, not second intentions or anything. Just them thinking their new pal is cool! As should be.

With that said, I buy the idea of Sonic showing his feelings more openly and being the one who goes after Amy more while she is more shy about it. And considering that she has a mission that determines the end or not of the known universe, it makes even more sense.

Although I see moments where Sonic is flirting really cheesy and Amy comes with a super deep declaration full of sincere devotion and drives this poor hedgehog to blue screen.

Something that can also contribute to their dynamics is parallels.

Sonic has parallels with almost everyone: Tails, Knuckles, Shadow. Heavily in Shadow. Good dynamics are born from it. All iconic audiovisual interactions have them. And with Amy and Sonic it would be no different.

One really cute thing about them is, Sonic and Shadow for example thrived on the parallels of similar loss, grief and as opposites, which is amazing narratively, Amy and Sonic are more parallel in qualities and, depending on how the film approaches it, in backstories.

They are both kind and sweet souls who fight for the ones they love until the end and are compassionate. Not only that, Amy and Sonic may be young folks who grew up alone feeling the weight of loneliness hit them hard. And heroes who now have to save the world because no one else can.

They have opposing parallels too, like Sonic being more laid back and impulsive while I see Amy being more strategic and thoughtful, him having to hide while she had to constantly move around, or Sonic finding family while Amy can't have bonds for the greater good.

Heck, the writers can even pull a Amy and Sonic/ Tom and Maddie parallel if they really want to hit us!

But imo, they'd thrive in the alikeness. In their shared compassion.

In the capacity of changing the other for the better.

Sonic could help Amy relax. She would have a lot of responsibility on her shoulders, without support and always struggling. He would show her what it's like to have support, a family, how to take life more lightly. That she's doing well.

Amy can help Sonic to find peace. That he’s a hero and that although isn't perfect by any means, and yes he makes mistakes, that does not diminish his worth. She gets what he has been and keeps the same hope and trust in him.

And that's the appeal, imo. Not a love at first sign or destiny. But showing how they work, how they don't need to change who each other is but help, and how natural the interaction is. The growing feelings. The simplicity of the whole thing.

The lightness of young love, y’know.

Conflict

Trust me when I say it, the writers can make Sonamy doomed by narrative. Not only that, but it would be their core conflict as a duo.

No, I'm not crazy.

See, cuteness apart, Sonamy is almost an “anomaly” by default in this universe. With the Metal Domination, Sonic probably should be dead in the future, not possible to meet anyone after that. Amy who came from the future to a time that isn't hers to stop it. She is not from his timeline, and he isn't from hers either.

Sonic and Amy never should meet each other in any normal circumstances. They have a mission bigger than them. They have a clear reference to Terminator and my pal, it romance doesn't end well.

If my theories are correct, the fourth film is essentially a fight against destiny. The star-cross story writes itself. Amy and Sonic meet and hit it off, but man, none of the odds are in their favor.

And to make matters worse, I'm pretty sure that if love is a theme in the film, the writers will pull to love is to sacrifice.

Remember the Tom and Maddie/Sonic and Amy parallels I mentioned? Tom and Maddie’s relationship has a strong foundation in sacrifice.

Maddie has said that Tom did everything he could to get her to go to veterinary school while Maddie gave up her life in Green Hills to be with Tom and make his dreams come true. Same with Sonic and Amy, except the stakes for these two are so much higher.

Because these two have a policy of no loved ones hurt equally at least in this universe and I know this will be a point of discussion. Sonic would never agree to someone he cares about sacrificing themselves, while Amy wouldn't accept it either. They're alike.

And I say more, it would be worse for Amy because this is her mission but also her feelings. The goal she dedicated her entire life to vs the people she loves. She won't condemn billions...but she won't be able to send Sonic into a near-death fight. And I'll say more, if she can save both of them at the cost of her own life, I say she would.

She doesn't have a family or a home and after spending time with the Wachowski, she wouldn't accept the risk of the family losing their son and brother. And man Sonic wouldn't take this fact well.

He wouldn't understand why Amy wouldn't try to fight to change things once more instead of just accepting death, not accepting that this time, there would be no way to talk her way out of this situation. Amy would be right in her point. Lives were at stake and any other decision would lead to losses.

Sonic would be torn too. It's a very important mission, and he has his family and the universe at stake...but leaving Amy would devastate him just as much. She's cool, she's amazing, and she'd still die for others. How do you deal with that?

Love and sacrifice. And always think about the other person and their well-being, not your own because that would be better. Doing things so that others can have their dreams and aspirations fulfilled. And how to balance what them both want.

They will find a way but God, the drama!

So yeah, Sonamy can be doomed by the narrative.

Well, this ends my talk about Amy Rose. What is right we'll see only in 2027. Until then, let's enjoy what we have. Please, if you wanna say something, do it! I would love to hear it! A big hug! Bye!

#sonic #sonic the hedgehog #sonic movie 3 #sonic movie #sonic movie spoilers #sonamy #amy rose #sonic cinematic universe #sonic 3 #shadow the hedgehog #sonic the hedghog 3 #scu #man my daughter can be sooo good!#please writers do her right!#I`ll write a fic about her #amy rose my beloved

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