#like am I crazy or are people missing. a lot

[a-bad-case-of-the-stephs]

@duskdog

Hiiii! Been meaning to respond to this because you raised some really interesting ideas, sorry that it’s taken me a hot sec.

The crazy part is (like a lot of things about Steph) we get conflicting information about how Bruce sees Steph in relation to her father.

Steph consistently worries Batman is judging her by her fathers actions when she’s sanctioned at Spoiler. She identifies it as a potential reason the rest of the team doesn’t trust her.

This tracks with how Steph is shown to have a pattern of feeling responsible for the Cluemasters actions (which as I’ve mentioned before I see as an extension of her helplessness to protect herself and her mother from him during her childhood).

She identifies on multiple occasions that her choice to be the Spoiler is rooted in the misgivings of her father. Clear, easy example of this mindset is when she states because her dad is an asshole, she “has a lot to make up for” (Robin 80 Page Giant). She finds herself responsible in some part for his actions.

So it makes a lot of sense that Stephanie keeps asssuming other people are holding her to this same standard, judging her based off of her fathers criminal ways.

However, this assumption is not really substantiated.

I can’t think of a time Batman says or thinks anything which implies he gives a fuck who her dad is, besides when they first meet assuming she’s working with the Cluemaster instead of against him. (I’m not perfect however and I Might have missed one)

That is, until… Bruce Wayne: The Road Home Batgirl (🎉I love talking about BWTRHB!!!!! The worlds shittiest acronym!!!🎉)

After his little assessment and convo with Steph, Bruce tells Alfred that Stephanie and Wendy “need watching”, as their dads were both “criminals”.

This train of thought comes out of nowhere. As already stated, there’s very little evidence that Batman cared much that her dad was a criminal before this point.

Additionally, half his goddamn team has criminal fathers/mothers, ranging from mob bosses to goons to cult assassins to international terrorists. What is he even saying.

This is a total inconsistency. But I can see your view kinda accounts for that hypocrisy. If Bruce sees Cluemaster as a “lesser” threat and holds him in less esteem than the more formidable villain parents, it might explain why he seems to put this bonus emphasis on Stephs parentage. (Maybe he sees Stephs fathers criminal ways as more ‘mundane’ and therefore easier for her to slip into?)

I don’t think I’m totally sold on that idea, but it’s definitely interesting.

His statement feels just so out of nowhere (and again applies to half the people he works with) that I find it hard to believe this is a consistent concern of his.

Batman’s opinion on low level thugs varies (obviously by era and writer), but the versions of him I find most compelling are when he is shown to be sympathetic and willing to help people in shitty situations get out of them (even if they were doing crime beforehand). However it’s entirely possible (and probably equally substantiable) that he has unconscious and class based biases which might affect how he acts and treats certain characters.

I’m not nearly as intensely familiar with Jason’s character as I am Stephanie, so I’m low grade blanking on any good examples of how Bruce interacted w Jason’s background (besides his generally all consuming belief that Jason was on track to worse and worse crime and eventual death before Batman took him in).

Sorry this is pretty rambly, but I thought you brought up a Rly interesting point and i had some thoughts I wanted to add on

How Batman uses the idea of those "born for" vigilantism to justify working with Teen Vigilantes before and after the death of Jason Todd, and what it has to do with Stephanie Brown.

(DISCLAIMER: I'm not trying to condemn the concept of child/teen vigilantes in superhero comics, its a staple of the genre and dumb to condemn it like you would in the real world. I'm analyzing the times in which Bruce Wayne the character has questioned the concept himself, and the rationalizations he comes to about it)

By examining Bruce Waynes mindset immediately before, during, and after Jason Todd's deadly time as Robin, we can see how Batman rationalizes and justifies teenaged vigilantism.

When Dick Grayson as Robin is shot by the Joker, Batman essentially fires him from being Robin. Bruce entirely dismisses the concept of working with a "child" to fight crime. Batman seems to believe working with Dick as Robin is simply too dangerous.

Batman #408 (1940)

His Mindset at this point: Teenaged Vigilantism = Dangerous and Bad

But this, obviously, doesn't stick. It barely takes any time at all after this forBruce Wayne to take in Jason Todd and subsequently make him the second Robin.

Crime fighting with a 19 year old is too dangerous, but crime fighting with the 12 year old? Yeah, sure, why not!

There is an obvious contradiction, and a clear change in mindset.

In order to rationalize his choice to take in Jason Todd as Robin after firing Dick, Bruce Wayne must internally reendorse the concept of Teenaged Vigilantism. And he does so in a specific way:

Batman #410 (1940)

Mindset: If Jason Todd was not Robin, he would become a criminal and die

The dying part is specific as well. When confronted at first by Alfred, its more of an afterthought, something which would occur down the criminal "road" Jason was bound to end up on. But when he is later confronted by Dick, the idea that being Robin "saved" Jasons life takes center stage.

Batman #416 (1940)

It's no longer some distant crime related death Jason was on course for, it was an imminent death which Bruce was able to save him from.

Mindset: If Jason Todd was not Robin, his "self destructive energies" and lack of "self esteem" would have killed him.

This phrasing is SUPER interesting to me, because its not true in a very specific way.

1. Jason Todd wasn't really shown to have "Self destructive energies" before he became Robin. He was stealing to make a living, to stay alive. He never showcases a desire for "self destruction", unless you count his hitting Batman with a tire iron, and his interference in Ma Gunn’s heist. Which I don't.

2. It seems to imply Jason Todd might have died because of specifically "self destructive tendancies", which seems ascribes a small amount of passive potential suicidal ideation, which is also vastly unsubstantiated by anything we see from Jason before he becomes Robin. But you know who is a character who is deeply rooted in concepts of suicidal ideation? Batman. (I'm not going prove this point here, but this concept gets more firmly rooted in the upcoming years after this comic, Knightfall being a great example) Being Batman, Knightfall will establish, is pretty much all that keeps Bruce Wayne living. You could say that being Batman saved his life.

3. Bruce admits he took Jason on because he was lonely in this very same confrontation when Dick pushes him on this idea. This makes it abundantly clear why he needs this rationalization in the first place, his real reason for making Jason Robin appears to be somewhat selfish.

But what does this all mean? For one, it proves that Batman's primary explanation for why he took on Jason Todd is lowgrade BS. It also shows how Batman's rationalization has begun to veer into projection. He states that Jason was saved from his self destructiveness by becoming Robin, something that is certainly true for himself, but not really Jason.

We see this projection fully take root when Leslie Thompkins confronts Bruce. Not only is Jason Todd saved by becoming Robin, now he wasn't even chosen by Batman. It was, much like Bruce Wayne becoming Batman, inevitable. Something he was "born" to do.

Detective #574

Mindset: I didn't chose Jason, he was chosen, he is just like me, we were born for this

This is essential. This mindset will show up again and again as a core part of Bruce's ability to rationalize working with child vigilantes once Jason has died.

Lets look at how his mindset has been evolving from before he meets Jason to his time as Robin progressing. Batman has gone from:

Teenage/Child vigilante Bad --> Child Vigilante Good because Jason would have become a crimial --> Child Vigilante Good because Jason would have died, I saved his life --> Child Vigilante is Good because I saved his life and Jason was meant to be Robin just like I was meant to be Batman, this is what we were was born to do

This is insane rationalization. But it works. For a while.

Then, Jason begins acting out, and putting himself in danger. Whoops. uh oh! How can Jason be saved by becoming Robin, if he is endangered by it? The balm for Bruce's semi-suicidal ideation was crime fighting, so if Jason is self destructive as Robin, does that mean Jason isn't like Bruce after all? Does that mean he wasn't born to be Robin? Was Bruce right in the begining? Is Teen Vigilantism Bad? Well, lucklily, the rationalization Bruce has built doesnt need to change too much in order to accommodate these new facts.

Batman #426 (1940)

See, this issue has not reverted back to being child vigilantism, it's the fact that Jason isn't ready yet.

Batman #426 (1940) / Batman #427

Batman latches onto this idea, he identifies it as "the problem". Is he wrong? No, not really. It does seem like Jason needs come to terms with his parents deaths. But this is important because it is still a rationalization for mindset he started with, still part of the reason he can be in favor of Teenage Vigilantism.

Then Jason Todd dies, as Robin. That truly breaks the underlying concept for this rationalization, that being Robin saved Jason Todd. The entire justification has fully shattered, and Bruce Wayne has lost a son. And, so because of this, in the wake of Jason Todds death, we see a full 180 revert back to the idea Bruce held onto at the end of Dick Graysons time as Robin: Teenage Vigilante = Bad.

Batman #428/ The New Teen Titans #55 (1984) / Batman #439

He has fully rejected the very concept of working with anyone, including the now adult Nightwing. He is literally right back where we started, with even deeper convictions against working with someone else (especially a kid) ever again.

But we all know this doesn't stick. He takes on 13 year old Tim Drake as Robin not long at all afterwards. As the 90's progress Bruces goes on to work with a huge variety of other vigilantes and partners, both teenaged and adult.

So how does he possibly justify this?

I believe he retrofits his rationalization for taking on Jason as Robin.

He adheres to a primary idea. The idea that some people are, like him, simply built for Vigilantism. That they, much like he once believed Jason was, "born" for it.

Mindset: Child Vigilantle is not always Good, but it can be Good. When its the right kind of teenager. Some Teenaged Vigilantes are meant to be Vigilantes just like I was meant to be Batman.

In this way, Jason Todds tragic murder is not a failure of concept, it a category error. Batmans mistake was not working with a teenager, his mistake was working with the wrong kind of teenager. Jason Todd was not built for vigilantism. But others are. This means he's still totally in the clear to work with teenagers, Tim Drake as Robin, then Cassandra Cain as Batgirl, and then eventually Stephanie Brown as Spoiler. So long as Bruce is able to believe they are "born" for it, that they are like Batman himself, meant to do this, and incapable of living a normal life, there is no contradiction, his rationalization holds.

But where’s the proof?

This mindset can be clearly seen and prominently seen when Stephanie Brown is fired as Spoiler.

When Steph is fired as Spoiler because she has moved in Bruce's mind from the "acceptable Teen Vigilante" category into the "unacceptable Teen Vigilante category". And the reasons he gives for this decision are exactly in line with the rationalization I've lain out. She is consistently contrasted to other teen vigilante characters who are fit for duty because he does not see her as "like him/them".

Detective #790

Notice how he jumps right from "Jason and Stephanie were/are not fit to fight crime" to "they could/can have a normal life" right to "unlike me and you, Cassandra Cain, who are stuck fighting crime forever". Much like how he originally justified his decision to work with Jason Todd as Robin through the idea that Jason and Bruce were both destined for this life, he applies the exact same idea, but this time, about himself and Cassandra Cain as Batgirl. And in contrast to them, and in directly comparison to Jason Todd, Stephanie is not meant for crime fighting.

Batgirl #38 (2000)

And Stephanie Brown is contrasted with Cass again, when Bruce first explains why he fired Steph to Cass. This is a consistent pattern. She is not like Cass. This is why she shouldn’t be a vigilante.

When he explains that he is going to fire Steph as Spoiler to Tim, he says something very interesting which invokes the same idea. In the list of three reasons he throw out that Steph shouldn't be Spoiler, he mentions that she is going to "throw her life away". When taken in combination with the other panels discussed, its clear to me that he means this is the common way the saying is used. That she is wasting her life by being a vigilante, that she should, as he mentions earlier, be living a normal life. But why is he saying this to Tim? If one of the reasons Steph shouldn't be Spoiler is her ability to lead a normal life, why the fuck is Tim exempt? I think it comes from a genuine belief that Tim is "like him". Unable to live a normal, non-vigilante life, "born" for crime fighting. Much like Cass, who we already saw him directly compare himself to in this exact same way. Thats why he can directly reference to Tim Steph's ability to have a normal life as a reason she shouldn't be a vigilante, he doesn't believe Tim fits the same category at all!

Robin #106 (1993)

So why the fuck does Stephanie move categories? She was acceptable earlier? What changed?

I've already done an in-depth explanation for what the subconscious underlying reason Bruce fires Stephanie: she simply is no longer useful to as a balm for his loneliness. I highly recommend checking out the post here if you are interested in the breakdown of why and how.

But in addition to that, it’s clear to me that it also has a weird amount to do with Jason Todd.

Stephanie simply and clearly reminds Bruce of Jason Todd. He points out their similarities in personality, and it’s worth mentioning the similarities in their circumstances as well (mothers who struggle(d) with drug addiction, and fathers who were criminals).

As we saw in Detective #790, their personality similarities led to Batman associating Steph with Jason. This makes sense, this association would only grow as he got to know her over the time she is sanctioned as Spoiler.

I believe this association leads to him eventually placing her in the same category as Jason, as not "born" for vigilantism at all, and as capable of having a normal life.

But it also serves as a clear way to rectify his mistakes with Jason. It’s his way of “making up for” his role in Jason's death. It’s his second chance. Never mind that this second chance leads to his assessment of Stephanie having very little to do with Steph herself, and a whole fucking lot to do about Bruce’s guilt over Jason’s death.

This is especially brutal because it seems to come from a place of genuine care (and a selfish desire to assuage his guilt too), but Stephanie doesn't get the tender moment of explanation and grief and regret that Cassandra hears. She doesn't get to know this.

What she gets, is to be told point blank that she is fired because she just isn't good enough. She gets to hear that she lacks the "skills and talent" from the same man who originally came to her to train her because he finally saw and recognized her potential. She gets told she will never be good enough by the guy who told her that she could learn and improve under his instruction. She gets two sentences. She has to fight for any more.

I cannot emphasize enough the fact that she had to track Bruce down to get an explanation for why he was suddenly ghosting her. He didn't even have the decency to tell her himself. Stephanie had to track Bruce down just so she could find out that he gave up on her.

Stephanie gets a blunt lie about why she is fired. And Bruce Wayne gets to feel good about "correcting" a mistake that had nothing to do with Stephanie. Stephanie gets cut off from her friends. Bruce Wayne gets to reconcile with his team. Stephanie gets to feel worthless. Bruce Wayne gets to feel justified.

[hellonoblesky]

Looking at bad reviews for the Acolyte makes me feel like I'm actually hallucinating because like? To me, a lot of things were done for very clear reasons. All motives were clear to me almost immediately. I understood why certain decisions were made, especially when they were unfavorable. But for some reason every poor review I read is like "Yeah so there was no reason for x y z to happen" when the event in question was subtly built up for the past two episodes, or served a solid role in the tone/event progression of the show, etc, I feel like I'm losing my mind. Is it the best show ever? No. It's star wars, star wars hasn't been good forever. But is it the worst show ever? FUCK no, it's fine

[razzledazzletrassh]

no major fic updates just yet guys TAKE MY WOY OC I MADE LIKE. April of last year IM PLUGGING SOME INFO ABOUT THIS GUY IN THE TAGS.

I may also redesign her soon or something. Make her more bug-like with some stuff. I can cook guys let me cook !!!

[throughpatchesofviolet]

I'll have these moments where I am calm, collected, and feel like I can, in fact, complete all of the tasks I've set out for myself, and then I'll get home and completely lose all that motivation.

[james-spooky]

this is a test

[moonchild-in-blue]

Thank you for the tag @tonguetyd! My spoons are indeed low but my sleep schedule is GONE so. Random burst of energy let's go.

I didn't know what artist to pick because I didn't want an obvious (?) one, so I'm going super niche and choosing Bright Eyes because it's been a minute since I've talked about them, and they're one of my favourites 💙

Artist: Bright Eyes

How do you feel: Nothing Gets Crossed Out

What is your gender: Bowl Of Oranges (obviously funny but also it's a beautiful song! poetic storytelling!)

If you could go anywhere: Lua

Favorite mode of transportation: Driving Fast Through A Big City At Night (yes that is the title)

Your best friend: First Day Of My Life 🥹

Favorite time of day: Sunrise, Sunset

If your life was a tv show: A Line Allows Progress, A Circle Does Not

Relationship status: I Won't Ever Be Happy Again 🥲

Your fear: Waste Of Paint

Idk who made this or not so I'm tagging randomly, no pressure to do this whatsoever! @dearscone @corviisquire @hookedhobbies @politemagic (hi!) @leonsleftbicep @melit0n

[wundrousarts]

I was going to save this until I reread Hollowpox, but that last ask reminded me that I should share this here, so I present:

Musings on Maud: Why is she considered so powerful, how does this affect her dynamic with Squall, and why is he so scared of her?

(Bonus: How can I connect it to Silverborn?)

Two disclaimers: I haven't reread Hollowpox in ages, so if there's anything that could prove or disprove stuff in this post, send it my way. Honestly send any discussion my way. I love discussing theories. Second, this was originally a reply to a Reddit comment on a post, to which you can find here. The comment discussed Maud being a signatory for a Squall safeguard, so since this comment is copied verbatim, it references that.

---

If it’s not outright stated, it’s at least heavily implied that Squall helped create/build up the Republic. It’s only existed for about 90 years, and Squall has been exiled for about 100. He mentions in Hollowpox how he knows that Maud’s plan is to take over Nevermoor/The Free State, because the Republic took over the other states in the realm and he “helped them do it.” However, unless Maud is immortal and also 100 years old, she is not the one who started the Republic from the side of the Republic. Also, no clue how long it’s been around, but Squall Industries has likely been around for awhile as well (this is how he gets his connections and power in the Republic), with Squall just constantly grandfathering himself in with the vampire trick or something.

Interestingly, Squall says two things in this scene (Chapter 34 of Hollowpox) that stick out to me:

“I made the so-called Hollowpox,” he raised his voice above hers, “because I was asked to. Because I was compensated handsomely for it. And because when the most powerful person in the realm asks for a favour, even I don’t refuse.

And

“But you’re a Wundersmith.” Morrigan was utterly baffled. “Why can’t you just stop them if they’re such a problem? I don’t understand!” “Do you THINK I HAVEN’T—“ Squall shouted, then cut himself off abruptly.

He also mentions how the Hollowpox was initially meant for the Republic, but Maud snuck in an infected otter across the border into Nevermoor— “That was never part of our deal.”

There’s definitely a business relationship between the two of them of likely consistent deals, one favor for another, quid pro quo. However, we also see that Squall can’t really go against her, something he seems to have tried before. Two chapters before this scene (Chapter 32), has this moment:

“Yes, shush. Maud said the Wintersea Party might help if there was a squid crow po.” “Quid pro quo?” “Right, one of those. She said they won’t do something for nothing, but if we could convince Prime Minister Steed to meet with her, just to have a conversation, then she would try to convince her party to share their cure.”

While it could be easily explained as part of her job, Maud seems to get most of her power and do things by extracting deals from other people. Maybe she’s knackless, or maybe she has some sort of connection to Puppeteering or a knack related to that. Not Mesmerism, but something that allows her to be persuasive, manipulative, convince people of things, and get them to do what she wants. A sort of parallel or companion to Squall’s connection with Puppeteering that we see in Wundersmith.

It’s interesting that when we first meet Maud, there is this exchange directly after she tells Mog that the Wintersea Republic would only agree to help the Free State if there was some sort of deal:

“But they’re your party,” Morrigan pointed out. “Aren’t you the one with the power? Maud stiffened slightly and cast her a wary, calculating look.

And then soon later she says this:

“Even if I could persuade my party to do the right thing – and I’m not saying I won’t try – there’s no guarantee Steed and his government would come to the table.”

The whole exchange seems very manipulative, like, “oh, I’d LOVE to talk and get this figured out, but I can’t…” There’s a big focus on conversation. Maud is wary when Mog mentions power— she thinks she means a magical power, something secret that gives her an advantage, when really she just means politically— so I wonder if she was worried for a moment that Mog realized she had some sort of coercive power.

I wonder what exactly her power is that makes Squall so scared of her, and why it possibly makes it so that he can’t fight make and overthrow her. Aside from their business relationship, which allows Squall access to Wunder and being a Wundersmith, there’s this other layer as well.

As for safeguard: I don’t know if Maud would be a signatory for a Squall safeguard, as that seems to just be for Wunsoc students, but I think that whatever their deal is and whatever her power is allows her to keep him in check. Jess said that we will learn more about safeguards in Silverborn, and I think it would be interesting if Mog learns more about them from Squall instead of Jupiter— and maybe it does end up being similar to whatever he has going on with Maud, who knows! I don’t really have any safeguard theories myself, but I will keep an eye out for what you add to your comment.

A Silverborn “silver” side note: A “silver tongue” means that someone is persuasive when they speak….. perhaps this idea, theme, power, etc. will be expanded upon in the future 🤔

[dahldahlbills]

just hit 50k in cryptids wip :’)

[pseudospectre]

Do you love this skull? And the old internet? And attribution? You might like this :)

[mars-ipan]

people have been real niceys to me about my art lately and it makes me really really happy…. :]

[microwavetoaster-selfships]

Hey, yall!! Gonna be changing my blog name! Nothing big, but since my main is @microwavedfishsticks , I wanna change this blog name just so my blog titles have some sort of relation to each other, and perhaps it's easier for others than just trying to remember "oh random user is actually random selfshippers main account!"

So I'm changing this blogs name to microwavetoaster-selfships! Plus, that way if someone can't remember my user for whatever reason they at least can go off of "microwave"

Gonna touch up my main blogs pinned as well if that matters at all to the peeps here😅

[moophinz]

Y8 Thoughts I Guess 🤔

I keep pacing the kitchen while repeating the same things in my head over and over again so here is my thought vomit. Long vent post incoming

• Really concerned about how likely it is that we’ll only see the Jimas interact with Kiryu one or two times in a similar manner to 6. It’ll feel even worse this time for me considering Kiryu has cancer. It’ll also be a grievance for me given something I’ve complained about a lot. How weird they are about Kiryu and Majima’s relationship. It feels like ever since the ending of 3, they haven’t allowed them much of any interaction while simultaneously making a point that they’re close to each other even with the distance and it throws me for a loop every time. It’s made even more frustrating that their social medias have no problem posting about them (especially from Majima’s angle) as though they’re an actual ship. Plus, recently sharing blatant Kazumaji art on stream. If they keep doing that after this game I’m going to catapult myself to the sun. Obviously, I never expected the ship to actually happen. All I want is for their bizzaro relationship to have some sort of proper conclusion, but I have zero hope of that. It just makes no sense to keep making them out to be besties of some sort and then not allowing any follow through on that. Hell, they were weird in Ishin, too. It’s just SUCH a strange thing to do so often.

•At this point, it feels like the Jimas are only together because no one knows what else to do with them so they just end up together for years and years. My issue here is that it puts all of them on the back burner even though there’s still stuff missing about them. Like the biggest one being that we never get to see the real Daigo. They tell us about him a lot, but we never get to see him. RGGO of course bridges this gap. It’s just disappointing to know that’ll only ever exist there.

•If Mine is back (Yokoyama talked like the only thing stopping him from that was his voice actor), would he interact with Daigo? He was such a core part of his character, and it’d be interesting if they did see each other again. I would of course like it if Mine got to tell Daigo that he loved him straight to his face even though I’m more than certain they’d never do that.

•The Ichiban and Saeko proposal and all that still has me on edge. I do N O T know what all that’s about. Yokoyama claimed the game isn’t romantic, but he’s been on a kick lately with saying one thing and the exact opposite happening so I’m feeling pretty hesitant to believe him. I admittedly have a very hard time with media that contains a prominent pairing that I do not care about, but the plot keeps pushing in my face. Like with the second Kiryu saga game. To expand on Ichiban and Saeko, I mean that in 7, there’s nothing to show they have anything romantically going on despite the player’s ability to choose to date her or any other lady. I made sure to date nobody in my playthrough since I don’t care about that kind of stuff personally. They do, however, keep teasing Saeko and Nanba in a subtle way that really surprised me. I did find it interesting since visually they’re a really unexpected pairing and a possible romance that doesn’t involve the lead character seems pretty rare. RGG also typically isn’t that good at writing romantic notes so it was another surprise for me. All in all, this is just a personal issue I have pretty often with romance in media.

I know the game is still months away, and I’m not jumping to any conclusions. Just voicing a few concerns and one thing that’s sort of me hoping for something. It’s going to be a long wait to have all my questions answered 💀

[rosicheeks]

i do not know if i ever sent this to you. i have posted it. i hope you like it Princess.

[iccedays]

When mutuals change their url name:

Wish you the best and hope to recognize you

[peapod20001]

I actually do have very complex thoughts about many different things, it’s just a bit challenging to connect the inner voice to the outer voice sometimes </3

[tarragonthedragon]

am i the only one feeling like behaviours that used to be like, reaching out and making friends on the internet are now viewed as creepy and intrusive but nothing has really replaced them