#like I get it bruce is sometimes a Mary Sue

[frownyalfred]

I don’t care if it’s cliché. Give me Overpowered!Batman and Overpowered!Superman. I want them to be so competent and skilled that the only people who understand them are each other. I want them to be able to handle everything well except their feelings for the other.

[super-hero-confessions]

I'm sorry, I couldn't stand Cassie Lang in Quantumania. I do want to elaborate though, because I really don't want this to come across as sexism, so long post. Thank you Super Hero Confessions for giving us a platform.

I can't talk about this on any social media without people telling me "why do you care you're a grown ass man" even though I'm a woman and younger than Kathryn Newton, the actress playing Cassie, but thanks for making assumptions and showcasing your need to put anyone with a different opinion in a box (a wrong box, at that).

Cassie is rude. Cassie puts Scott down. Her father. The father she loved so much in the first two Ant-Man movies and in Endgame, after losing him and thinking he was dead for 5 years. She's also inexplicably super smart out of nowhere. I'm no writer, but as a woman I can tell you this is not the way to write female characters. Or if it is the way, then it's not a way I can relate to.

To me, well written female characters are diverse. And by diverse I don't mean just racially diverse, although that too. For example let's take a look at the women of Wakanda. They're all black, but they're extremely diverse. Shuri is the brains, nerdy and fun, Okoye is the muscle, strong and badass, Nakia is the heart, kind and compassionate, Ramonda is the Queen, majestic and elegant. Even Riri, who is not from Wakanda and a bit similar to Shuri personality-wise, is endearing and entertaining. I love them because every one of them has a distinct personality. Something similar happens with the women of Guardians of the Galaxy. Gamora is strong and badass, but also compassionate. Nebula is the angry one, but deep down she's suffering because she just wanted a sister. Mantis is gentle and sweet and her power is her empathy. Again, distinct personalities. Love them. Valkyrie? Despite people claiming she had no remorse, I personally like her. She's deeply flawed. She turned to alcohol to numb her pain until she stopped giving a shit about others. I don't agree with her actions, but I'll take her over any female character who is so perfect it hurts. Once again... diversity. Women with incredibly diverse personalities from one another.

Examples like the ones I just mentioned make the world of female characters richer. And when people complain about "Mary Sues" yes sometimes it's just a sexist take, but sometimes it is true that recently we are getting characters like Cassie: arrogant yet loved by everyone around them, super strong, super smart, always right, effortlessly better than the male character at everything, no flaws other than being "too stubborn" or "too selfless"... Too perfect. I can't relate to that, but it's fine, I don't need to relate to a character if they're at least entertaining but that isn't the case. Because they try to make these characters so many things at once, they end up being nothing, and incredibly boring to watch. Or even worse, cringeworthy at times. I had to roll my eyes when Jen was ranting about mansplaining while explaining how to control your emotions to Bruce Banner/the Hulk. Yes, you can make a woman talk about mansplaining but not while explaining control of emotions to the HULK? She's doing the same thing she's complaining about? Like that's just. I am the target audience and I want to turn it off.

No woman is absolutely better than everyone at everything. It's why I mentioned how important it is to add distinct personalities and diversity. Some women are better at some things than others, and all are important regardless. Some women are very smart, some others are not intellectually gifted but have very big hearts, some have anger issues, some are funny, some others struggle and do shitty things, etc. Women are diverse which is why I don't like the generic, bland, perfect type, I feel as if the movie is grabbing me by the shirt and screaming "GIRLBOSS!! SLAY!! GIRL POWER AM I RIGHT?? FEEL EMPOWERED, WOMAN!!" at me. No, I'm sorry, I don't feel empowered over a character who, to show us how good and better and perfect she is, has to put her own father down, Scott Lang, of all people. Scott Lang! One of the most lovable superheroes!

Nothing screams "we actually think women are weak" more than actively putting the men down to attempt to make the women look stronger. Sure, maybe all the "straight white incel racist males" complain about this. But the implications are these. The implications are that a woman cannot appear strong unless the men are portrayed as weak. And as a woman I find it insulting.

I would like to know what you guys think. Feel free to start a debate if you want, respectfully please. One of my friends irl loved Cassie and if we can talk about this with respect, we all can. Ladies, what are your thoughts on this type of writing for woman superheroes? I want to hear the opinions of men as well (unless your arguments are straight up sexist) and I don't know, but I just really want, for female characters, the diversity and depth that most male characters have. I don't think I ask for much. Each character has their unique strengths and weaknesses, and it should be no different for female characters.

I do want to clarify though that I can understand this writing when there is only one woman in a major role, for example with the OG Avengers. Thor was the himbo, Tony was the genius, etc, but Natasha was the only woman Avenger at first so it's natural that they would make her be too many things, too perfect, too capable, smart, and compassionate. Context matters and I actually like Nat. But when you have multiple women in a movie and still choose to make a woman superhero a "Cassie," I say no thank you.

Thank you for reading!!

[batfsm]

I don't play the games but I read fanfic and I know there is tension between the trio's fans...god, sometimes I wish we could go back to FF.net and LJ and etc. None of the fandoms ever seemed as bad as they are now. Hell, looking back, I'll take that hate over what is happening now.

I used to hate Talia until I started getting back into the comics and the Batfam. I learned that what I knew of her wasn't even true, but because it's canon now, I should hate her. (I literally just wrote this on a post about Babs.) Well fuck that. It's still canon and still shows how they changed her character and I adore her now.

I haven't read that series and don't know if I want to since I'm really hating on Selina right now...

Selina's way to much of a Mary Sue and she is literally the only one people see with Bruce, besides Diana but that's not even canon..., So of course any other ships gets hate. Especially the one that gave us the only true biological kid of Bruce's, since as far as I'm aware of Helena isn't even in the mainstream universe. (My one post I reblogged from @itskimchifriedrice points out that the only kids we know of/remember are the Robins, Cass, and Duke. Not even Helena or Athanasia are known as well.)

I don't here her, I hate how she is just a clickbate nobody, in a way, I know it doesn't make sense, I can't remember how to make it make sense. Basically she gives DC views. (I think that's how I want to put it.) Which sucks. Not to mention they had Selina beat Talia in a fight. Selina! That's totally wrong, Talia wins hands down.

Hell, Barbara seems like she's regulated to Dick's girlfriend, which is fine but she's not just that. Or when they did Batgirls again, Cass and Steph are pushed to the side for Dick/Babs when it's all of the Batgirls comic. Not one to just push Babs/Dick on us.

I just hate how certain characters are either redone so they are a totally different character or others are pushed to the side to show that this character is the best (Ahsoka and Rey being great examples of pushing Luke & Anakin to the background.) and the rest are there to bring them up, to show they are the best. That isn't how it should be done.

Speaking as someone who likes both Talia and Selina -

Your post about Selina is, frankly, a pile of bullshit, and I'd be fine with that (I've got no problem with someone not liking a character I do like), except you put it in the Selina Kyle tag. Someone could just as easily make a similar bad argument tearing down Talia, and I'm guessing you wouldn't be happy about seeing that in her tag. People don't repeat the "don't tag your hate" line as often these days but it's still general courtesy for a reason.

Also, that anon had a point, despite you ridiculing them for it. When you say that a female character who goes back to the earliest days of the franchise and has a rich and complex history "only exists to provide a love interest" and is "basically just a fuckbuddy"... well, you might not actually be a misogynist but you sure sound like one. The only difference between your post and something from an early 2000s dudebro forum thread is the absence of the word "whore". And despite you saying afterwards that "Bruce is a fuckbuddy too!" you never reduced him to just that, nor did you say Bruce is a meaningless and unimportant character because he's "just a fuckbuddy."

(Also, a similar argument could be made in regards to Talia. She was literally created to be a love interest for Bruce, and I have seen people reduce her - incorrectly - to "just Batman's babymama". It's a shit argument, but your reducing Selina to "just a fuckbuddy" is pretty much on the same level.)

I'm not trying to change your mind about Selina - if you don't like her, then that's your call - but I am trying to point out how you were being kind of an asshole.

I just saw this so I apologize for the lateness.

What's wrong with putting it in the damn tag? I'll go back and put anti Selina in it if it annoys you that much but I tag everything or at least try to. (I don't think I need to.)

If someone made an argument on Talia, which they have, I either read it and think about it or I scroll on past. Or I do both, read and scroll by. It's not that hard.

Christ, so because I made an opinion, and called her a fuck buddy I'm still a misogynistic? For Ra's sake! I never reduced Selina to that only.

I literally said this:

is that if you consider Selina a member of the family for basically being a ‘fuck buddy’, which I have read comics and yes, I’m not up to date but still, she is basically there to annoy Bruce and give him a partner other than his kids (from what I have read) and give him a love life, which he doesn’t need one,

Which I am not up to date with the comics but she was there basically to annoy Bruce and give him a love interest. Another one.

Selina's around to give Bruce a love interest, which he doesn't need. I've said it before and I'll say it again, they are over done.

I like Selina. I don't like her and Bruce together. Like Dick/Babs. I like those two by themselves but not together anymore.

Give me the characters by themselves and I'll be happy to read about them. Don't make try to just make them reduced to being 'fuckbuddies' to each other. It turns people off.

I don't think I was being an asshole by stating my opinion but I guess people are to easily hurt these days.

[meduarts]

Secretary!Marinette Part 9 (Idea Dump)

I don't know how many of these I'll do but I'm having so much fun coming up with ideas! Anyways this dump is going to explore Marinette's and Bruce's relationship! Let's start!! Bruce is kinda OOC but... I want a soft Dad-daughter relationship ok. SUE ME.

Bruce is confused most of the time when Mari showed him how much of an overly competent secretary she is.

She somehow knows when he was faking over meetings because he doesn't want to deal with investors and when he doesn't want to go to meetings because of a serious problem.

He's also kinda confused about how a small woman like her hides the strength of a million strong men. He often watches her pick up the largest boxes that probably weigh thrice her weight. She could manhandle him if the situation went awry from rogue, attacks, and lastly, he saw her punch through thick wooden doors before because one of his younger sons was kidnapped for ransom. That was scary, and he had never felt so safe before in his life.

He is also quite confused as to how she could give so much kindness to strangers and expect nothing from it. She often bakes him pastries and made sure that he has enough snacks during his working hour. She often made sure that his outfit is warm enough and he even got a knitted scarf as a gift from her that she knits herself.

He wanted to adopt her after learning about her past. So, he sometimes slips a paper adoption in the files that she was supposed to work on that day and it has become a game for them of some sort.

Bruce is awkward with his feelings and Marinette finds it hilarious. Marinette teaches him a secret handshake and at first, he did it awkwardly, and then it became a habit. Marinette likes to give him huge bear hugs and at first, Bruce did not know what to do. Like the secret handshake, it became a habit.

They both love to troll the Wayne Staff, at first, Bruce tries to stop her from creating chaos, but then he joins in and they made sure to team up to troll pesky business partners, reporters, and even investors alike.

Bruce doesn't know this but it was he who got adopted first by Marinette before he got the chance to adopt her.

The girl treats her like her father that needs help to manage his life. She worries about him when he gets no sleep. She constantly deals with difficult investors or potential business partners to make sure that her dad boss doesn't have to deal with headaches often. She even made sure that those pesky tabloid reporters left him and his family alone.

Like a cub trying to protect her parents, people often pegged her as a ferocious little kitten (because of her small posture) trying to claw away anyone that feels like a threat to her cat dad. Bruce found this amusing.

She knows that Bruce can handle himself but that doesn't mean he has to. If she can do it for him, then she would!

Once, she mistakenly called her dad out of office hours and Bruce had a permanent grin for the rest of the week.

Bruce invited her often for family dinners, which elates Dick because he would make sure to rope her to hang out with him as often as he could, sometimes Marinette would join him in his sitting area quietly gossiping or hearing each other's stories.

She became fast friends with Alfred and would often team up to bully Bruce to take care of himself more. They would inform one another when Bruce is skipping dinners and take turns scolding Bruce.

She ropes Bruce into taking yoga classes and even asked him to garden with her. It became a weekend father-daughter bonding time. Bruce is especially proud of his zucchini and tomato garden. She even helps Bruce with gift shopping for his kids and helps arrange a private family time for him as well. As usual, he would extend the invitation to Mari and sometimes she joins.

When Mari gets very sleepy during winter, he became full-on dad mode. Worrying his daughter secretary every time he noticed how sluggish she became during the cold weather. When Mari unexpectedly hibernates, he panics. ohnomydaughtersuddenlystopsrespondingandbecamereallycoldwhatshouldido???

When Bruce finally realizes that he had been unofficially adopted by Marinette Jason teases him nonstop. When Dick and Marinette start dating, he is elated. When they got engaged he is stoked. When Marinette asked for him to walk her down the aisle, he tears up. When they give him his first grandchild, he cries again.

[bitimdrake]

okay so I know that Jason now is like completely different than he was pre 52. I hate new 52 with all or my heart, but at the same time im a huge fan of how Jason is now

Do you have any thoughts on like the change to his character or like opinions on how it's different now or whether or not you like it?

New 52 Jason sucks and I hate him. He's not a terrible person. He's not a horrible villain. He is something far worse.

He's flawless and boring.

(DISCLAIMER: I'm only going to be talking about post-crisis vs new 52 here. I have not read anything after the new 52 yet. Rebirth/Infinite Frontier Jason may or may not be great. I don't know yet, and I'm not gonna make claims.)

So, without putting words in your mouth here, I think that when a lot of people say they like Jason better post-Flashpoint than pre-Flashpoint, that's not...actually what they mean. They mean they like Jason better as a protagonist and hero than as an antagonist and villain.

That might be for any combination of (a) preferring your faves to be morally supportable and (b) just wanting the narrative to give attention directly to them rather then using them as a tool in the real protagonist's story. And that's fair!

But I care about execution more than concept. I am open to both the concept of antagonist Jason Todd and protagonist Jason Todd. And New 52 Jason is--to his detriment--not just the same Jason Todd now turned antihero.

Post-Crisis Jason was far from a perfect character. He was a supporting character (and usually antagonist) who was tossed between short story-arcs with different writers, and the character's consistency absolutely suffered for it.

Sometimes he was a very sympathetic antivillain doing bad things for understandable reasons that genuinely challenged the protagonists' viewpoints. Sometimes he was an insane villain. These extremes were not stitched together well.

But, dammit, he was interesting. He was defined by trauma. He had strong emotions that were regularly unhelpful or unhealthy. He had principles that often conflicted with those emotions, and he usually let his feelings take precedence. He had complicated, messy, layered relationships and history with characters around him. He was a walking tragedy. You could write ten thousand essays just on his interplay with Bruce.

New 52 Jason Todd, on the other hand, is just fucking boring. He's an adolescent concept of A Cool Guy.

New 52 Jason is the world's most specialest boy. He's the chosen one, and he's good at everything, and he's the best ever. His friends would be helpless without him because he's so cool and he always saves the day. He has no meaningful flaws. He's never allowed to be truly wrong. He's never allowed to mess up in a significant way.

He's an encapsulation of why Mary Sues are bad characters.

I want to be clear here: it's not that Jason has to be tragic and antagonistic to be interesting. I would have loved Post-Crisis Jason to get protagonist focus in a good book. I would have LOVED an arc of him becoming a better and/or healthier person.

But the New 52 didn't just skip that arc--it also stripped out anything interesting or complicated from Jason's character.

The most nuanced and compelling relationships he had (particularly Bruce; also Dick, Barbara, Alfred) are simplified down to nothing. The new relationships he was given (New 52 "Roy" and "Kori", even Tim Not-Drake) only exist so there are other characters around to prop him up.

The flaws and trauma and complicated emotions are gone. He has the mildest aesthetic of a bad boy, pasted onto a Perfect Person.

And the most compelling potential--the conflicts of morality or principle--is missing entirely.

How does New 52 Jason feel about killing? I literally don't know, because none of his stories give a shit about questions of morality. New 52 Jason kills when Lobdell thinks it will look cool and badass, and he refuses to kill when Lobdell thinks that would look noble and heroic--and it's the same for every character around him. He has no principles, because his stories don't think silly things like principles are interesting. He is, again, always right.

I hate him.

tl;dr: Post-Crisis Jason is an example of how a compelling character concept can survive even messy, inconsistent stories. New 52 Jason is an example of how to squander every interesting thing you could have done with a character because a shitty writer decided to adopt him as a self-insert instead.

[sazc94]

The Three Times James "Bucky" Barnes Broke your heart.

This was inspired by @msmarvelwrites 2k Writing Challenge because I'm a sucker for Taylor Swift especially sad Taylor Vibes. I chose the all too well lyrics.

Apparently, I can't do anything small so it's in two parts. Pairs Bucky x Reader and Pietro x Reader. (Not at the same time)

Part 1 Here

No smut but mentions of sex so 18+ Themes: highschool, cheating, college/uni. Friendship

Words 3368 it's Suburban AU.

2015 You finished up Uni staring in the school's production of Rock of Ages, Playing Sherry opposite Loki’s drew. Loki also moved to New York staying with his half brother Thor Oddinson. You stayed in touch with Loki and Pietro. The thing that took you by surprise however was six months after moving to Detroit, whilst working for Bruce Banner's start-up you received a DM on Instagram from Bucky. He heard from Sam and Jane that you were now living in Detroit and he was moving to the area after being scouted by the Detroit Lions. Hey Y/N, I hope you’re good. I know this is random and please feel free to tell me where to go, but I was wondering if you wanted to get a drink sometime? It would be great to see you again and catch up. Let me know. So you replied feeling like maybe after all this time it might be good to finally hear Bucky’s apology. Pietro and you had stayed in touch but you knew he was dating someone else. Her name was Sue Storm, she seemed like a nice girl, very smart and could easily give Pietro a run for his money. After hearing Bucky’s apology, you two started to become friends again, he invited you along to his games always offering to secure you two tickets if you wanted to bring someone. He was a machine on the football field, earning the strange nickname The Winter Soldier.

2016

Everything changed in the summer of 2016 though when Bucky’s mother passed away suddenly in June. She had practically helped raise you, so you attended the funeral with Bucky. You stayed with him in the guest room in his childhood house, helping him sort through belongings and paperwork. Bucky’s dad had died when you were 8 and Bucky like you was an only child. You took in food from neighbours wanting to pay their respects. You held his hand squeezing it in comfort during the funeral, assuring him you were there for him. Two days after the funeral you and Bucky had finished packing up the final boxes, you were upstairs, and he was downstairs being awfully quiet. You went looking for him only to find him sat on the living room floor. He was crying holding a picture of you and him one Halloween when you were 9, Bucky had gone as Superman and you as Supergirl. Your mums stood behind you, both of them chuckling whilst you and bucky tried to out pose one another. Your heart swelled. Your Grandad had died in November and god how your heart had ached, but to lose your mum, you couldn’t even begin to imagine. “Hey, hey. It's alright I’m here Buck”, you said cradling his head to your chest whilst he sobbed. You stayed like that for an unidentifiable amount of time before Bucky’s crying eased. He looked up at you blinking away the stray tears, the familiar blue in his eyes pulling you in. Your not sure who kissed who first but that was how you and Bucky ended up sleeping together.

You and Bucky officially got back together in July. Your Grandma passed away in September, the start of football season. Bucky was unable to attend the funeral, he tried god he tried. Pietro made it though. He and Sue had broken up not that he told you. By the time November rolled around things were good between you and Bucky. Wanda’s fashion label Scarlett Witch was taking off and she invited you and Bucky out to join the rest of the old gang at the official launch in December of 2016. You accepted and for the pair of you assuring Bucky, there would be no awkwardness. Pietro was casually dating and was bringing a date called Crystal.

You arrived at the party in NYC completely blown away. Wanda had asked you to wear a piece from the evening wear collection, a Black strapless dress, the top if form-fitting made from chiffon fabric, the skirt cut out the front made of black tulle sparkled with the touches of glitter. It felt like you were wearing the Milky Way. After stopping to pose for photos for the press you made your way inside. The party was being held inside a beautiful gothic building. “Y/n! You look absolutely amazing, thank you so much for wearing this and of course for coming” Wanda practically pounced on you the minute she spotted you. “Bunny! I agree absolutely amazing. Bucky, you don’t look too bad yourself” Pietro said kissing you on the cheek. Pietro was wearing a deep blue suit, it made his hair and ice-blue eyes pop. Bucky had opted for the simple black tux to match you and your dress. He almost looked good enough to eat. After grabbing a glass of champagne, Wanda and Pietro took you to the rest of the gang who had made it. Jane was here with a date, Thor Oddinson you recognised him from the few times he had been to see you and Loki in shows. Carol was here too. Peter Parker was working the event as a photographer he had brought a date a lovely young lady called Mary Jane Watson. After about 45 minutes of schmoozing and catching up, you went to the ladies room. When you exited you were a little taken aback by the sight that confronted you, a redhead was hanging of Bucky’s arm chuckling away with Thor and Jane. You could only see the back of her from where you were standing. You decided to walk over and introduce yourself. However, when you got closer to the group the woman started to look vaguely familiar.

“Hey babe,” Bucky said as you approached quickly removing his arm from the redhead. Babe. That was weird he never called you babe. His blue eyes looked like they were hiding something. “Lady Y/N. This is Lady Natasha” Thor said introducing you. The redhead turned to shake your hand smiling at you with a knowing look. “Lovely to finally meet the infamous Y/N,” she said. “I told Bucky how disappointed I was not to meet you when I was in the City in September. I’m so sorry to hear about the passing of your grandmother. Bucky kept me company whilst I was around on some Business” her voice sounded harmless, sweet and pleasant. Genuine. Her eyes and knowing smirk told a different story. Bucky looked at you, the familiar betrayal in his eyes, pleading with you. “I was just telling Bucky, I’ve been offered this amazing opportunity in Detroit so Ill be moving there in February, isn’t that wonderful?” she asked. You smiled taking a swig of your champagne. Jane looked at you, then Bucky. You shook your head.

That was the second time Bucky Barnes broke your heart. He assured you that they hadn’t slept together, however had admitted that he had kept her visit from you and that she had kissed him. “Did you kiss her back?” you asked pacing around your hotel room. “Doll, please what does it matter,” he asked reaching out for you. His calloused hands once again burning your skin with his betrayal. The fact he had chosen not to answer was all the confirmation you needed. You had left him in the hotel room. Loki had been unable to make the event due to being in a small play off-Broadway, but you had texted him asking if he wanted to get a drink. You had told him everything and he had walked you back to your hotel room. You were drunk and distressed. Bucky had opened the door his blue eyes flashing with jealousy when the handsome black-haired gentleman had his arms around you. “Easy James, if anything was going to have happened between us, it would have happened in freshman year of college,” Loki said helping you into your room. After you and Bucky returned to Detroit you guys took a break for a few months.

2017

Natasha’s job conveniently happened to be working as a fitness instructor at the Detroit Lions. After 4 months you and Bucky got back together in March of 2017. Things were going great, Natasha seemed to have released whatever hold she had on Bucky. Bucky was performing well with the Lions, his new teammate, Steve Rogers nicknamed Captain America seemed to have caught the eye of many ladies including Natasha. He however didn’t seem that interested in her and had his sights set on a girl from his home in Brooklyn her name was Peggy. Steve and you hit off due to your mutual disinterest in Miss Romanoff, he had come up with a nickname for her, he called her Black Widow because she seemed to devour the men in her life. Banners start-up tech company had taken off with thanks to your ad campaigns. You were also performing in the local summer show of Mamma Mia playing Sophie. In the summer of 17, Peggy Carter came to visit Steve, turned out she was from Britain originally. You liked Peggy and her no-nonsense approach. During July, the four of you went on lots of double dates like you were high schoolers again. For Steve’s birthday which happened to be the fourth of July, the four of you attended an event being put on by the Detroit lions. You had a great evening mixing with various teammates and their families. You even warmed to Natasha a bit that afternoon.

As the evening rolled around a giant cake was brought out to celebrate Steve’s birthday. Followed by a firework show. Everyone made their way to various blankets and cushions set out at the opposite end of the stadium. Somewhere along the way you and Bucky got separated. You didn’t worry too much, to begin with as you’d both drifted off to interact with various people throughout the event, however by the time the fireworks started Bucky was nowhere to be seen. You started to think the worst until you spotted Natasha’s red hair on the other side of the stadium flirting with a gaggle of players from various other teams who were invited. Confident Bucky would return shortly you turned your attention to the sky watching with a goofy grin, things were finally settled between you and Bucky. As the fireworks went on you decided to snap a few shots on your phone loving the way the sky lit up with bright colours. The Detroit Lions didn’t do things in small doses, so the firework display ended up going on for about an hour and a half. After about 45 minutes Bucky returned from wherever he had been slipping down behind you pulling your back flush to his chest. He stroked small circles on your arms. His rough calloused skin making you shiver from the contact.

In September you were approached by Tony Stark’s PA Pepper Potts, they had seen your campaigns for Bruce Banner and Tony was interested in headhunting you. Your contract with Bruce was up in October. You initially shot the idea down. Why would you want to leave Michigan? Your family home was a short 20-minute drive away, Bucky was doing well with the Lions. Peggy Carter was moving here after Steve had proposed at the end of Summer. It seemed ludicrous. After initially shooting down the offer. Pepper contacted you, doubling their initial offer. The offer was tempting, so you told Miss Potts you would think it over the weekend. There was no harm in bringing it up with Bucky, maybe a move would do you both good, Natasha seemed to have gotten under Bucky’s skin again. You left the office early that day. You didn’t bother to text Bucky figuring you could surprise him when he got home from training with a home-cooked meal. You stopped off to get some supplies to make Lasagne before heading over to his apartment figuring you could just let yourself in. You had called Wanda on the drive over through your cars Bluetooth. She and Vision were engaged, and she wanted you to be one of her bridesmaids. Partway through the call, Pietro had walked into Wanda’s office so you had told them both about the job offer. When you got to Bucky’s you immediately recognised the Black Widows black Mercedes. “huh, that’s weird, I wonder what she’s doing here,” you said out loud “who’s where?” asked Wanda. “oh um nothing, look I got to go I just got to Buck’s and I’m cooking dinner, going to talk to him about Tony’s offer,” you said before hanging up. You were so blind-sighted by Natasha’s car you didn’t clock Bucky’s Motorcycle parked in the corner of the small parking lot. You grabbed your bags walking up to Bucky’s figuring that you could invite Natasha in if need be whilst you waited for Buck to come home.

If you had noticed Bucky’s bike, then just maybe you would have been more prepared for the following events you unlocked Bucky’s apartment and you found clothes strewn everywhere, his jeans. A white Blouse. His boxer trunks. A Black lacy bra, that definitely didn’t belong to you. At first, you were so shocked by what you saw that you didn’t hear the moans coming from the bedroom. It was like you were possessed you carried your bag of groceries as you walked in a daze to the bedroom, you opened the door and found Bucky once again cheating on you. He and Natasha were in the throws of fucking each other, you found Natasha with her back to you, wrapped around Bucky’s waist. Bucky sat upright facing you however his eyes closed whilst he drank in the pleasure. You felt your heartbreak as you dropped your bag of groceries. The bag made a thud as it hit the ground, alerting Bucky to your presence. His eyes flew open connecting with yours. Natasha however didn’t stop riding your boyfriend’s cock. Bucky tried to push her off him, but you were already storming out the door. You grabbed your bag and left Bucky’s spare key in the door. Bucky grabbed a pair of joggers and slippers before chasing after you. Bucky’s apartment was on the second floor. All the apartments on the second floor opened outside to a walkway.

“Really James?!?” you turned round to face him before he could even say your name. “Was once not enough? Did you not hurt me enough the first time?” You asked. You could feel the anger threatening to burst in the way of tears. Bucky went to speak, his blue eyes once again filled with guilt. “How long?!” you asked quietly. Bucky moved towards you tugging on your wrist. “Come on Y/N, come back inside it’s starting to rain, we can discuss this inside,” he said, his eyes pleading with you. At that moment Natasha appeared in Bucky’s open doorway. She looked pleased with herself, wearing Buck’s shirt. The site made you want to vomit. “How. Long?!” you asked again through gritted teeth. Bucky faltered. “Since July. Since the 4th of July event,” he admitted rubbing his hand over his face. At that moment you felt completely and utterly broken. “I’m done, James. Do you hear me? I am done. We are through. You two.” You pointed to Natasha. “You two are welcome to one another”. That was the third time Bucky broke your heart.

You took the job working for Stark Industries. Your contract had ended with Bruce but your lease on your apartment was up until January so you stayed working for him until December of 2017 You said your goodbyes to Steve and Peggy in January and moved across the country to your new life in the big apple.

December 2018

The unknown number flashed up on your phone for the third time that day. You sighed before answering it. “Hello, Y/N Speaking how can I help?” you asked fiddling with your jumper. “Hey Doll, it's me. Don’t hang up.” Your breath caught in your throat. James Buchanan Barnes. You hadn’t spoken to him in over a year. He hadn’t even attempted to reach out to you after you split up mailing your things back to you, well all but a scarf. In January shortly before you’d moved to NYC you’d seen a magazine article saying the Winter Soldier was dating Natasha Romanoff. It confirmed what you already knew deep down, which was that you might be okay but you were not fine at all.

You’d worked so hard to forget about him long enough to forget why you needed to. He had better have a damn good reason for calling you. “You have 5 minutes,” You said getting up from the sofa you were sat on. “look, I know I fucked up with you. In more than one way on more than one occasion. I think it was the pressure to be the perfect couple, you know lifelong friends to more. And well I guess I just freaked out, and then I fell for her, but she didn’t want me, and when you gave us another shot, I thought I could convince myself to love you the way I did her, the way you had loved me. But truth be told, it was always Natasha after that summer. I know you deserve better, and I truly am sorry for hurting your doll. But I wanted you to hear it from me before you read about it in the news. She’s pregnant and also, we’re getting married.” Bucky said. You stood in the middle of the apartment stunned. “So, you call me up again, just to break me like a promise. So casually cruel in the name of being honest?” you whispered. Squeezing back the tears. “Well fuck you, James.” With that, you hung up. Of course, Bucky tried to ring right back, you declined the call, falling to your knees in pain. You had never asked for any of this, you had been quite happy being Bucky’s best girl as his friend. He was the one who kissed you at that prom.

You weren’t still in love with Bucky, you had moved on, forgetting about him and the pain he caused you. He hadn’t needed to call you, he could have given you a heads up through one of your mutual friends, but no. he had to go and stick the knife in. After lying there like a crumpled-up piece of paper and letting the tears fall. You picked yourself up. You washed your face and made yourself a mug of hot chocolate grabbing a Christmas cookie from the tin before making your way over to the bay window. You sat down taking in the view. The traffic had eased off a bit as things wound down for the evening. The snow had been falling pretty much all day. After about 15 minutes of sitting peacefully the key in the lock turned. You didn’t move you were incredibly content where you were, even if you could use a refill in the hot chocolate department.

“Hey handsome how was your day?” you asked not taking your eyes away from the street below. A group of kids were throwing snowballs at one another. You smiled to yourself enjoying their innocence. “It was good, busy” he replied taking off his coat and walking over to join you at the window seat. Wrapping his arms around you and pulling you close. “How about you Bunny? I saw a news alert. I’m guessing you know about the engagement?” he asked. You hummed a response. Before shuffling yourself around to face him. His floppy silver-blonde hair covering those beautiful ice blue eyes, they looked at you with such love and endearment, they also spoke a silent promise that he would never hurt you the way that Bucky had. You kissed him gently on the lips before standing up. “Come on Quicksilver let's shower before the Stark Christmas Gala,” you said pulling your boyfriend along behind you shooting him a knowing grin. His nickname may be Quicksilver for athletic reasons but there were some things he liked to take his time with.

A/N If you stuck with me through all this, I am truly sorry. I'm gonna go cry

Tagging the bestie @lannycleave

[princess-of-the-corner]

Hey, so I saw a post about Batman and ML crossovers having unfortunate implications, And I’m just wondering about why

Oh boy. Short version: Mar///ibat

So like.

When the Salt first got really rolling post-Chameleon, ML/Batman crossovers got real popular. I think one person made one and then everyone else wanted to try their hand at it.

This resulted in an influx of fics that had a bunch of the same plot beats. Like, the exact same. The class has a trip to Gotham. Mari gets left behind at the hotel, runs into Jason when trying to meet up with the class, Dick is the tour guide, Scarecrow attacks and Mari gets the fear toxin, romance with Damian where he calls her 'Angel', blah blah it's all been done.

Now. Usually I'd be like "oh two cakes!" About this. And yes I understand that wanting to put your own spin on a fandom trope is great and I've done it.

The problem is that these are all Saltfics.

So all the ML characters are.... Horrible people. Because they all drank Lila's Koolaid and Lila is clearly a sociopath worse than the Joker and they're all happily at her beck and call to do whatever awful things she asks. But are too stupid to realize that Bruce saying "bitch who the fuck are you?" To Lila means she lied about knowing him and dating Damian and all that.

Bustier is a joke because she's victim blame-y as hell and is totally okay losing children in Gotham fucking city.

Mari herself is the Saltinette who is "well you're either with me or you deserve to be torn apart and have your lives ruined".

Adrien gets such inconsistent treatment too. Oh! Not that some like him some don't! It's just that they'll have Adrien as "oh this poor coward too afraid to stand up for anyone and trying to get Mari to just lay low and take the abuse(usually with clear implication that this attitude isn't a result of his own experience but because he's an abuse apologist who thinks she shouldn't fight back because if she didn't fight back it wouldn't be happening. Sometimes with him causing a bigger scene to shut her up). But while 'Adrien' is a spineless coward, Chat has no cowardice and is at best a stalker who has been harassing Ladybug and in some cases they just write him straight up ready to assult her.

Like. It's. It's a hot mess. It's horrifying.

Anf I barely call it a ML/Batman crossover because all the ML characters are too ooc. So it's like someone went "Hm I want to make my poor little meow meow mary sue to ship with Damian. But no one likes Canon/OC ships. I know! I'll slap a fashion interest on my oc and say it's Marinette and this is a crossover! Who cares if the personalities of her and her classmates don't line up!"

And it's unfortunately popular with people shipping Mari and Damian and that ship is. If I go to ao3 and try to upload a fic and get to 'marinette/' then Damian is the third choice after Adrien and Luka. A crossover spite ship being that popular is scary.

So yeah any ML/Batman fics get the side eye nowadays because 99% it's that shit.

(Like. Write what you want blah blah just. The difference is that these people believe the way the characters act in these fics are their Canon personalities)

[reecepedia]

Spider-Man is the single greatest superhero of all time, hands down

An essay by Reecepedia

I genuinely love the character of Spider-Man, from his backstory, to his abilities, from his best friends to his most evil foes. I genuinely can't think of another hero who could even be a close second.

And before you ask the question that I've gotten about half of the times I've said this, that question being "which Spider-Man are you talking about?", let me go ahead and get it out of the way: I'm talking about the concept of Spider-Man, the hero himself, the very idea of the Friendly Neighborhood webhead. Not just Peter or Miles, and not Toby or Andrew or Tom. I love Spider-Man.

With that settled, let me move on to my reasoning, which I've broken down into several sections...

Alter-ego: The person behind the mask sometimes changes from universe to universe, however, the character who typically ends up becoming The Amazing Spider-Man is none other than regular old Peter Parker. Peter Parker (normally) lives in Queens, New York, with his Aunt May and Uncle Ben. I'm school (typically high school) Parker is known to be sort of a nerdy outcast who ends up being the frequent target of general bullying. While insanely intelligent, he's awkward, and lacks social skills. He's not incredibly athletic, and he is often (if not always) hopelessly single from story to story.

You may be asking me "Reece, how does this improve his character?" If you actually shut the fuck up for a second, I could tell you...

Essentially, unlike other superheros alter egos, Peter Parker is relatable. He's not a billionaire like Bruce Wayne or Tony Stark, he's not a trained soldier like Captain America, and he's not a god (or borderline god), like Thor or Superman. When he's not swinging webs, he's a teenager who has responsibilities, all the same responsibilities the we have, or had, when we were in school. He doesn't have a fortress of solitude or a Batcave to return to; When he's not being Spider-Man, he has to be Peter, and the life that he lives as Peter really forges the bond between the character and the audience. With that humanness being kept in mind, let's move on to...

The Flaws: At the end of the day, if a superhero is perfect and all powerful, it's pretty difficult to form an interesting conflict when writing a story, because they can easily resolve that problem in no time. (This is the main area where I believe Superman falls short. He's a Mary Sue with no real weakness except a magic space rock that had to be invented by the writers to keep him from being undefeatable. Oh, also, Superman is a shit superhero, and if you think otherwise, go fuck yourself) One thing remains true: Peter Parker is far from perfect, both as a person and as a superhero. He often finds it difficult to suppress his emotions. He has acted out of rage or greed MULTIPLE times. People in his life (including Uncle Ben) have died directly due to his own actions. In addition to having the responsibility that is maintaining his human emotions, he also has to maintain his ability to not die. If you think about it, all of his weaknesses are really the same weaknesses that a normal person would have: Peter Parker CAN get shot to death ("Ultimate" universe). Peter Parker CAN get beaten to death ("The Other" universe). Peter Parker can fall to his death, be burned to a crisp, be poisoned, drowned, impaled, you name it. Spider-Man has to solve that problem by training himself, or by improving what he already has, using materials that are accessible to a high school student. This allows for there to be an actual struggle, and not just a super fucking domination that ends in 20 minutes.

Suit: Okay, this might not seem like a defining factor, but here me out...

In this image are all of the defining features of a spiderman suit: the white D shaped eyes, the red and blue coloration, the web pattern, and the spider emblem on his chest. This suit has been done over and over again a million times, and never gets old...

But...

This is an image of Peter Parkers first instance of a Spider-Man costume (in the Toby Maguire universe) Even though it's just a red ski mask with a spider pattern on a sweatshirt, along with the blue pants, you can easily identify this is supposed to be Spider-Man. I also believe thay if you removed the design from the Sweatshirt, you'd still be able to identify that to be an offshoot of the Spider-Man supersuit simply from the color scheme alone. You can do ANYTHING you want with a Spider-Man suit, and as long as you follow some loose rules, you can make it Spider-Man

Here's another example. In this picture, it's Peter Parker wearing a paper bag over his head, and a fantastic fout uniform. Even in the suit of a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT HERO, that one small detail (the eyes) make the whole thing understood to be Spider-Man. That's versatility.

To be continued later, it's 2 in the morning...

[sixtyeightdays]

Timinette social media or timinette with being underappreciated?

i am so sorry this took so long but i hope you like this! :)

i kind of strayed off topic a little and its a little mess so im sorry for that but i hope this is okay

this will have some bruce bashing so uh yeah 

theres also tim and jason brotherly bonding because i am a sucker for brotherly bonding fics.

also, tim, mari, chloe (basically the parisian folks) are 16. jason is 19, dick is 23, and damian 13.

-

Timothy Drake Wayne had had his issues with his own self worth before.

Unlike everyone else in the family, he hadn’t been born into the family, or even been chosen to be part of it. This did sometimes result in a severe drop in Tim’s confidence levels, but he always managed to bring it back up.

Eventually, Tim found that the best way to deal with it was just to accept it. Not act out on it or anything. No, it was best to just accept it and be on his way.

At first, he had fought the unwanted thoughts invading his head, but appointing him as CEO of Wayne Enterprises had been the final straw that broke the camel’s back.

If they didn’t want me in the family, why would they make me CEO of Wayne Enterprises? Tim thought.

But then it pushed itself into Tim’s mind.

Because they don’t want you at the manor.

Tim shoved the thought away and shook his head, looking out the plane window.

Just.. accept it. There’s nothing he could to but accept it. He had no one to talk to either.

Damian would probably jeer at him and call him a weakling. Tim didn’t really need that. Bratty little 13 year old, that one. Besides, Damian wouldn’t care about it anyway, probably just tattle on him in hopes of getting Red Robin benched permanently.

He had contemplated talking to Dick about it for a while. After all, Dick was the ever so helpful Golden Boy. But then he decided against it. Of everyone in the family, Tim would never expect Dick of all people to understand issues with self worth. Dick was told very often that he was loved, wanted. Dick would probably tell Bruce anyway, and that was the last thing Tim wanted.

Jason.. well he was busy. He was always busy. Regardless of how his and Jason’s relationship had drastically improved, he wasn’t ready to open up about this. Don’t get him wrong, Tim was glad that he and his old hero had started to make amends, and now Jason had barely any qualms in calling Tim his brother, and that he could call him whenever he wanted. It made a rush of warmth erupt in his chest whenever he heard it.

But, he just didn’t feel ready to talk to him about it. To anyone about it.

Now, it was Monday morning and he was on his way to Paris in the Wayne company jet, because some rich designer named Gabriel Agreste requested some sort of business partnership.

There was also a designer called MDC that Tim was very interested in meeting. He was a huge fan of her work. He had checked out her website and was pleasantly surprised by the quality of her work, especially since she had no employees and made everything herself.

The fact that she was Jagged Stone’s honorary niece had also contributed to Tim wanting to commission a MDC original.

He had contacted her a before the plane left, and lucky for him, she had decided to meet him at his hotel on Thursday after lunch to discuss and take measurements

It was partially why when Bruce asked him to go to Paris, he didn’t fuss. He didn’t even protest about how being in Paris would affect Red Robin’s patrol. He had just nodded and left.

It had been a very last minute decision, and he hadn’t even had time to tell Jason about it. He had left a few hours after Bruce told him about it.

Tim sighed, leaning his head against the cool window of the plane, taking a sip from the coffee mug he held in his hands.

He admittedly zoned out for the rest of the journey, but in his defense, there was only an hour left on that flight anyway.

Stepping off the plane with his baggage, he made his way to the exits and after checking out of the airport, hailed a cab to bring him to his hotel, Le Grande Paris.

He may or may not have also zoned out on his 15 minute long ride to the hotel. Tim felt bad for the very nice taxi driver whom he had ignored, and gave him a very generous tip. After all, it wasn’t like he needed the money.

Judging from the wide eyed and awed glance the driver shot him as he left, the driver appreciated it very much.

Walking into the hotel lobby, checking in and waiting for the room key to be given to him, Tim already knew he was going to turn down Gabriel’s offer.

His research had shown that Gabriel was a recluse and hadn’t left his house in years. His assistant, one Nathalie Sancouer went on appointments with him on a call. He was also seemingly cold to his only son, which didn’t fly well with Tim, especially since the son was the same age as him.

He was expected to finish more work in Paris, especially since there was no rogues to disrupt anything.  

He was not expecting a petite bluenette to crash into him and change his outlook on life.

The girl who bumped into him blushed profusely and apologised while two blondes, a girl and a boy laughed behind her.

She shot the two a playfully stern look, narrowing her eyes. Her eyes had the same glint Selina had when she saw Bruce. Playful, yet deadly. It was amazing how fast the blondes shut up.

“I’m Tim.” He shook Marinette’s hand, slightly charmed by the blushing girl.

“I’m Marinette. Are you checking in? I can escort you to your room. I know this place like the back of my hand.”

Tim was startled. Marinette did not seem to have any idea that she was talking to CEO of WE. She was talking to him like he was Tim. Just Tim. He was intrigued by the girl. The way she said her sentence, she wasn’t boasting or showing off, she was stating a mere fact out of politeness and the kindness of her heart.

You don’t see that around much anymore, Tim mused. It was like a breath of fresh air.

He nodded in acceptance and showed her the room number on the key that he was given before she had bumped into him. Her eyes widened.

“Well, looks like you’re on the floor I was already going to. Chloe lives here. Her father runs the hotel, and all the penthouses are on the same floor.” Marinette waved her hand at the blonde girl who was laughing earlier.

The girl stuck out a hand. “My name’s Chloe, the pleasure’s all yours.”

Tim’s lips curved into a smile as he shook her hand. “I’m Tim.”

Chloe pointed to the boy next to her. “That’s Adrien.”

Tim recognised him. He was that Agreste boy. The son of Gabriel Agreste, who he was supposed to meet on Thursday. Tim vaguely wondered if Adrien was going to be there for the meeting.

Tim didn’t like it when people announced out loud that he was a Wayne. So he didn’t do that to Adrien. Tim just shook his hand with a smile. Adrien smiled back, and Tim could see that gratitude in his eyes.

Tim nodded and his mind drifted to Marinette. She seemed rather nice, and she didn’t seem like the type of person to take advantage of rich kids. He decided to ive her the benefit of the doubt. Obviously, Chloe and Adrien trusted her, so he was willing to be open minded about this.

Besides, on the unlikely chance that she was trying to suck up to rich kids, Tim could very easily sue her, or at the very least, scare her off.

Marinette, Chloe and Adrien took the lift up with him, the four falling into an easy banter. Tim was very glad he had become fluent in French a few months prior to going on this trip.

Once they reached the outside of Tim’s suite, however, Marinette turned to Tim.

“Do you, maybe wanna join us after you put your things down?”

Tim grinned. “Why, I’d love to.”

-

It was the right thing to do. The four of them had a blast, and Tim knew now more than ever that Marinette genuinely liked the company of the two blondes and that she wasn’t just using them. He didn’t think she was, but it didn’t hurt to check.

They had hung out together, from that afternoon to late in the night, to around 9 maybe? Tim wasn’t sure. Tim felt a warm rush of joy flow throughout his body. He couldn’t remember the last time he had hung out with anyone that weren’t using him for his money or weren’t his family.

The four had become really close and the three Parisians probably knew more about Tim that his whole family did put together at this point.

Tim couldn’t remember the last time he had let loose so freely.

It was funny how it worked. Tim didn’t know why, but he had the comforting feeling that they could be trusted. Sure, they hadn’t known him for long, but he felt a sense of comfort with them, more comfortable than he’d ever felt with Bruce, hell, more than even Alfred.

Tim didn’t tell them all of his secrets, obviously, Red Robin being one of them. But it was okay. Unlike Bruce, who would research and pry into his business, Chloe, Marinette and Adrien shrugged it off.

“We’re all entitled to our own secrets.” Marinette had told him.

It made Tim wonder what kind of secrets the three were keeping, but he brushed it off. If he didn’t have to spill his secrets, the three didn’t either.

Eventually, night fell, but only Adrien left. Tim had looked to Marinette questioningly, and she just shrugged.

“His dad needs him back. I told Maman I was staying over with Chlo tonight. It’s not a school night after all.” She shrugged.

It was funny how much Tim trusted the three. He trusted them more than he trusted Bruce, at this point. Even if the trust he had in Bruce wasn't much to go on, it was surprising how easily the ex-Robin trusted the Parisians. But then again, life worked in strange ways, and this may have one of its strangest yet.

But Tim didn't protest. He rather liked the Parisians and like he's said, he trusted them. And from the looks they all gave him throughout the day, fulling of laughter and openness, he knew without a doubt that they trusted him too.

Among all three Parisians, Tim had bonded with Marinette the most.

Firstly, while the three were a formidable trio, Chloe and Adrien, it seemed, were childhood friends. They were extremely comfortable around each other, and it wasn’t like they were trying to leave Marinette out. They included her in everything they could, but the noirette occasionally bowed out and let the two friends do their thing.

Secondly, Tim was pretty sure that the two didn’t normally have so much childhood games. He was pretty sure they were making some of them up on the spot.

If Tim didn’t know better, he’d say Adrien and Chloe were trying to set him and Marinette up.

Marinette. The amazing little bluenette that crashed into him and changed his outlook on life.

Yes, he had only known her for less than a day, but they just clicked.

Marinette had tried not to, but it was obvious that her self esteem was at an all-time low, much like his. When Tim had asked Chloe and Adrien why when Marinette was in the bathroom, they had filled him in on how a girl named Lila at their school was bullying her and spouting lies about her.

“How bad are her lies?” Tim questioned.

“She saved Jagged Stone’s kitten from a airplane runway.” Chloe said.

Tim spit out his coffee.

“She misses months of school to be in Achu to work with Prince Ali for Go Green campaigns.” Adrien continued.

Tim didn’t know Achu or Prince Ali very well, but he was pretty sure the prince only did Helping Children Campaigns. He took a sip of his coffee.

“Her latest one? I was dating Damian Wayne, but he and his brother fought over me and now I’m dating Timothy Drake, CEO of Wayne Enterprises!” Chloe said the last part in a nasally, simpering tone that was obviously meant to be Lila’s voice.

Tim choked. Lila was 16! Damian was 13! Tim mentally filed a reminder to sue this Lila girl. Also, his love life was rather pathetic. He hadn’t dated since Stephanie. Lila’d would probably do a better job going after Jason if he weren’t with Roy. Wait, no. Jason didn’t like psychopaths. Or maybe he did, Tim wasn’t too sure.

“That was pretty accurate.” Adrien looked slightly impressed.

Tim shuddered. What kind of sicko had a voice like that?

Marinette had come out of the bathroom at that point, and all three of them effectively shut up. She looked concerned and asked Tim if he was okay and why he was so pale.

He shook his head. “I’m cool, cool, cool.” He ran a hand through his hair in an attempt to be suave and Marinette laughed.

Tim’s expression softened at the melodic sound. Chloe and Adrien exchanged a look before smirking at Tim.

Marinette had subtly complimented him a lot over the span of a few hours, and Tim had felt his confidence level slowly rising. It made Marinette smile.

Tim had returned the favor, and by the end of the next day, he and Marinette had almost as many inside jokes as Adrien and Chloe did.

(Chloe had walked Adrien to the door, and Tim and Marinette had hid from Chloe in Tim’s suite, giggling at Chloe’s playful irateness.

Tim had a great time.

He had also managed to finish most of his work beforehand.

He, along with Chloe and Adrien, had gone to Marinette’s house on Wednesday, and the four of them had spent the whole day in a peaceful silence doing their work.

Chloe and Adrien had finished their school work early and had copied their work into Marinette’s workbook. Tim had smiled at the sight because he was rather happy that Marinette had friends who were willing to do this sort of thing for her.

Marinette had spent the whole day working on several commissions, sketching the designs and sewing them out. Tim had been shocked by how many different types of fabric the bluenette had in her closet. Chloe and Adrien had shot him a look that said “get used to it”.

Tim was pleasantly that no one had disturbed him while he was doing his work. they had all done their own work respectively, and even when they were done, like Chloe and Adrien, they had kept quiet and didn’t make any noise to disrupt Tim and Marinette, apart form their whispered chatter.

In Gotham, Tim would almost always be interrupted by rogue attacks or his brothers and father. It made it almost impossible to finish his work on time, and resulted in many overtimes and no sleep.

Marinette’s parents, a happy baker couple who’d persuaded Tim to call him Tom and Sabine instead of Mr and Mrs Dupain Cheng, had stocked them up with a steady supply of pastries and amazing coffee. It was probably expected, they did own a bakery after all.

Tim swore that the Dupain Chengs’ pastries could rival Alfred’s.

While Tim was looking at Marinette work, he was taken aback by her efficiency and quality of her sewing. Normally, one jacket would take a day to make, including handmade embroidery. Marinette had done it within two hours from scratch.

Tim was tempted to commission her, but it seemed that her plate was already full, so he didn’t. Either way, he had come to meet with Gabriel Agreste and possibly MDC.

When they were all done with their work, after spending practically the whole day in Marinette’s room from 9 in the morning to 6 in the evening, they decided to go get dinner.

Tom and Sabine bid them goodbye heartily before turning to their customers and pulling a tray out of the oven.

Tim had met Chloe and Adrien’s significant others. A rather cold girl named Kagami, and chill looking boy named Luka. (Tim thought that Kagami and Chloe, and Luka and Adrien suited each other and balanced out perfectly.)

Originally, Tim had thought that Luka was dating Marinette. After Luka had hugged Adrien, he had turned to Marinette and called her ‘his Melody’. It didn’t help that she called him ‘her Harmony’.

Tim totally did not feel jealous.

But then Marinette groaned and nudged Tim in the ribs. “I guess we’re fifth wheeling.”

“Aren’t you dating Luka?” He pointed to the green haired boy.

Chloe and Adrien clutched their stomachs, laughing, while Kagami and Luka smiled. “Nope. Mari-hime is single.’’ Tim swore the fencer stared into his soul.

Tim was not afraid to admit that Kagami scared him more than the Joker did. Okay, maybe the Joker was a far stretch. Killer Croc or Two-Face maybe.

Luka leaned down and gave Adrien a peck on the lips. The model blushed and Luka grinned, exposing two slightly sharp canines, much like a snake’s.

It was currently mid November, so it was pretty cold. But Tim didn’t see why Mari was wearing a layer of heattech, a long-sleeved sweatshirt, a hoodie, and her winter coat, plus her hat, earmuffs and gloves.

She looked like a puffy marshmallow. A very pink, cute marshmallow.

Luka had shot him a ‘it’s better not to ask’ look and Tim wisely kept quiet.

They had a great time at dinner. Tim and Mari had an amazing time. Tim wasn’t entirely sure about the others, he was too busy paying attention to Mari.

The crinkle of her eyes when she smiled, the red flush from the cold dusting over her freckles lightly, the bluebell colour of her eyes.

He didn’t notice the ‘he’s so whipped’ looks from everyone else. Luka shrugged.

“Well who doesn’t like Melody once they meet her?”

Everyone else shrugged. “Fair point.” Chloe muttered, burying her head in the crook of Kagami’s neck.

Suddenly, screams broke out from nearby. Marinette immediately ceased talking and whipped around to face her friends. Tim looked very confused at her actions but looked worriedly to where the screams were coming from.

Suddenly, the floor rumbled and they all looked up to see baby August, who had been akumatised into Gigantitan again.

Marinette, Chloe, Adrien, Luka and Kagami immediately herded Tim back to Mari’s house, where they hastily climbed up the stairs to the loft.

“Tim, stay here.” Kagami ordered.

“What is this?” Tim couldn’t help but ask.

“It’s an akuma attack.” Chloe shrugged, looking not at all fazed.

Actually, Tim noticed, none of them looked fazed in the slightest.

“This is maybe August’s 7th time getting akumatised?” Luka said. “He’s relatively harmless though. It happens a lot.”

“Wait, where’s Marinette and Adrien?” Tim questioned, suddenly noticing that they were missing.

Kagami, Luka and Adrien exchanged a glance. “They’ll be fine.” Chloe waved offhandedly, logging into Marinette’s computer to turn on the live news from Nadja Chamack.

“Don’t be bemused, it’s just the news!” A pink haired lady was standing abnormally close to where Gigantitan was. Tim felt slightly worried for her.

“I’m Nadja Chamack, and we’re here at another akuma attack. It seems to be just baby August, however, so don’t worry. Ladybug and Chat will be here soon enough!”

Tim was appalled at the lengths this woman was seemingly willing to go to to get the scoop.

Noticing his expression, Luka smiled. “Don’t worry, Tim. She’ll be fine.”

“How do you know that?” If Tim let this happen, he was very sure that Bruce would murder him for a) getting that lady killed b) not helping. “I have to help!”

Chloe pushed him back into the chair where he was attempting to rise. “Sit down.” She ordered.

Tim didn’t want to, but he was interrupted by Nadja speaking again.

“Ladybug and Chat Noir are on the scene!” The camera view zoomed into a pigtailed girl in red and black spandex with a blonde boy in a leather catsuit. Tim vaguely wondered if he was Selina’s kid.

Tim’s eyes almost fell out of his head when he saw the two of them run up the side of the Eiffel Tower, with no grappling hook, no vault, nothing, before flipping off of it like a well oiled machine.

It was obvious that the two trusted each other to a deadly extent. They worked like two parts of a whole piece. 

August swatted Ladybug away with a wave of his hand, flinging her into the Eiffel Tower so hard it dented.

Panic seized Tim’s stomach when Nadja Chamack was trampled on by August, effectively crushing her. When August lifted his foot, Tim looked away.

Chloe, Kagami and Luka did not look fazed, and Tim wondered why, before standing up again. Chloe pushed him back down.

“She’ll be fine, relax. All of Paris have probably died at least, what, 9 times?” Kagami stated, crossing her arms. She levelled Tim with a steely glare and Tim cowered in his seat.

How did the League not know about this?

Suddenly, the person holding the camera cheered, as swarms of Ladybugs flew everywhere, fixing damages. Tim noted with relief that Nadja had reappeared in front of the camera, looking slightly confused but otherwise fine.

“I think I’m gonna throw up.” Tim staggered to the bathroom, and right when he was about to puke, two thuds landed behind him. Tim could see a green and pink light flash and he turned around to see what it was.

He was just in time to see Ladybug and Chat Noir detransform, leaving Adrien and Marinette, looking stunned.

That was it for Tim, he hurled.

And Marinette was there, brushing his hair out of his face and holding the back of his shirt so it wouldn’t get in the way. Adrien had edged out of the room, while an unfamiliar voice was chortling.

When Tim was done, he washed his mouth with shaky hands, and Marinette looked at him sympathetically and with a slight trace of fear. It was almost undetectable, but Tim had spent enough time with Cass to know when someone was scared, no matter how she tried to hide it.

Tim didn’t want Marinette to feel scared of him. He wanted her to feel safe around him. He shakily spun and engulfed her in his arms. Her body relaxed tremendously as she hugged him back.

He was taller than her by a only few inches, so Marinette’s head was comfortably buried in Tim’s chest. Tim was thankful that none of his vomit had gotten on his shirt.

“I like you, Mari. So, so much.” Tim confessed.

The bluenette he was holding wiggled in his arms, looking up at him with those beautiful eyes.

“I like you too, Tim.” Her quiet voice broke into Tim’s train of thoughts as he panicked.

“I know, you probably don’t like me back but-- wait, what? You like me too?” Tim knew his voice had cracked but he couldn’t bring himself to care.

“I do.” Marinette confirmed, stepping on her tiptoes to kiss his cheek.

Tim’s face flushed and Mari giggled.

“Does that mean you wanna--?” Tim blushed even more.

“Yes.” Marinette was obviously enjoying the way Tim was suffering right now.

“So.. it’s official?” Tim asked hopefully, looping his hand with Marinette’s.

“It’s official.” She grinned.

Adrien had interrupted them at that point, and after Tim changed into one of Marinette’s designs, a black, long sleeved shirt with ladybugs at the side, she and Adrien had explained about the miraculouses.

Chloe, Kagami and Luka revealed that they were also miraculous holders, but they were temporary heroes, even if they got to keep the miraculous on hand.

Marinette and Adrien were joint Guardians of the Miraculous, and they were something called true holders. The Ladybug and Chat miraculous were two halves of a whole, Adrien had explained. He and Mari were also the only permanent miraculous users chosen by the previous guardian, while Chloe, Kagami and Luka were chosen by Marinette.

Tim was then introduced to the some of the kwamis (Pollen, Tikki, Plagg, Sass and Longg), who referred to Marinette and Adrien as Guardians.

Tikki referred to Marinette as Mari, Plagg referred to her as Pigtails. Tikki referred to Adrien as Adrien, and Plagg referred to him as ‘kid’. It didn’t take a genius to know who wore the pants in their relationship.

Then, Marinette and Tim’s newborn relationship was brought to light, and Tim was sufficiently scared from the shovel talks given by the Parisians, as well as the kwamis. Marinette had laughed at him, and he had pouted for the rest of the night.

“I wield the power of Destruction in my hands so if you hurt Pigtails, I’ll cataclysm you. I sank Atlantis, so don’t try me.” Plagg’d scornfully stated.

Marinette had berated him and told him that Plagg really needed to stop sounding so proud that he sunk Atlantis, while Tim went pale and was reminded of his secret.

“Uh. Guys? I have to tell you something.” Tim wrung his hands together nervously. “You know how in Gotham, there are vigilantes?”

They nodded.

“I’m.. one of them? I’m Red Robin.” Tim squeaked.

There was silence, but then everyone, bar Marinette and Kagami burst into laughter.

“Only you, Melody, could create a love square with only two people and still somehow fall in love with a superhero.”

Mari flushed and Tim looked confused. “Who..?”

Everyone pointed to Adrien. He shrugged.

“M’Lady and I are soulmates.” He winked, intertwining his and Marinette’s hands.

“But we’re platonic soulmates.” Adrien dramatically let go of Marinettte’s hand. “Adrien had a crush on Ladybug. Marinette had a crush on Adrien.” He explained further.

Realisation dawned on Tim and he fell back into Marinette’s lap as she groaned at the way Adrien worded it.

“You suck.” She deadpanned.

Adrien had the gall to grin at her. “I’m also the one you share a soul with.”

She rolled her eyes.

Everyone had a nice laugh, but they all fell asleep rather quickly. It had been an emotionally and physically exhausting day for all of them.

The next day was Tim’d meeting with Gabriel Agreste. Tim wasn’t sure if the others knew he was Bruce Wayne’s son, but he figured if they didn’t he may as well surprise them.

So Tim left a note for them, and left 15 minutes prior to the meeting at 9, leaving the his friends in Marinette’s room.

hey guys, i have a business meeting at 9. i’ll come back as soon as i’m done, which will be 10? latest. i’ll probably be back before you guys wake up. i hope i will. bye for now. see u mari <3 love, tim.

His friends. Tim’s heart warmed. This was the first time he had made friends that weren’t his family, or superhero buddies.

Tim arrived at Agreste Manor at 9 on the dot, ringing the doorbell.  An electronic camera shot out from the wall and Tim jumped.

The person behind the camera opened the gate, and a buff man escorted him into the Manor, where Gabriel was waiting.

He was standing at the top of the steps, looking down at Tim. He inclined his head, and Tim followed the elder Agreste into his office.

The meeting went faster than expected. Tim had been expecting Gabriel to persuade him, but he had let Tim go. Instead of the half an hour meeting Tim was expecting,it was only twenty minutes.

Gabriel had offered a partnership with the Waynes in which he’d design for them, and they’d sponsor him. Tim had politely declined, and Gabriel looked slightly put out, waving to the buff man to escort him out.

Adrien had walked into the manor as soon as Tim reached the center of the room. Adrien stopped short.

“Tim? What are you doing here?”

Tim pointed to behind him, where Gabriel’s office was. “Business meeting.” He repeated, and waited for Adrien to connect the dots.

His eyes widened. “You’re Timothy Drake? CEO of Wayne Enterprises?”

Tim nodded. Adrien’s eyes widened before he smirked. “Have you told Mari?”

“I was gonna tell her today.”

“Nah, she has a meeting at like 2, with a client.”  

Tim frowned, but then shrugged. “I’ll tell her before.” He decided. “I have a meeting at 2 too.”

Adrien nodded and smiled. “Treat her right.” He said, before entering his room.

Tim smiled, even after Adrien was out of sight. “I will.”

-

Tim had a few hours before his meeting with MDC. He made his way back to the bakery, where he was greeted with a peck on the cheek by Marinette.

“Chloe went back to the hotel, Harmony and Gami have school, and Adrien had to go home.” She beamed. So cute.

Marinette and Tim spent the few hours eating lunch in Mari’s room and watching Netflix, judging the shipping potential between the Brooklyn Nine Nine characters.

They had agreed that Teddy was boring and annoying, Jake and Amy were a power couple, and Rosa was a badass .

Marinette really liked Gina, Tim preferred Holt.

Soon, it was time for the meeting. Tim and Mari both had to go back to Le Grande Paris, so they opted to walk there together.

“Who are you meeting?” Tim asked curiously.

“Some CEO named Timothy Drake.” She replied.

Tim stopped. He turned to Marinette.

“Timothy Drake.” He repeated. Marinette gave him an odd look. “Do you know him?” She asked.

“You’re MDC?” Tim’s voice came out strangled and Marinette looked taken aback.

Understanding dawned on her and she stared at Tim. “You’re Timothy Drake?”

He only nodded.

They stared at each other for a minute but then burst out into laughter, causing a nearby mother on the phone to shoot them a nasty look.

After the initial shock wore off, the two had continued to the hotel. They were on the way, anyway, and they could always either visit Chloe or stay in Tim’s suite.

Marinette giggled as she worked, deftly taking Tim’s measurements.

“Normally this takes forever,” Tim remarked, peering over Marinette’s shoulder and watching in awe as she drew out the design for his suit.

Within minutes, it was done. Tim was amazed by it. It was a simple suit, but the colours she encorporated into it as well as the designs made Tim extremely happy. It managed to capture his essence, and look stylish at the same time.

She’d even drawn a design for the tie! (instead of blue, it’s red)

After about three hours of Marinette working in Tim’s suite (she had gone home and gotten the fabrics and used the sewing machine she always leaves in Chloe’s room), as well as Tim finishing his remaining paperwork for WE, the suit was done. Tim was awed by it.

The suit jacket was a nice, velvety maroon colour that was reminiscent of Tim’s Red Robin suit and Marinette’s Ladybug suit. The inside was a black colour, as another tribute to the colour schemes of Tim and Mari’s secret life.

The tie was the same deep red colour of the suit. What Tim loved the most about it, however, were the tiny coffee cups sewn on it. “A personal touch.” Marinette had said.

There was also the letter T embroidered on the back of the tie and the lapel of the suit right next to the MDC emblems.

“What do you think?” Marinette asked nervously.

“I love it!” Tim lifted Marinette up by the waist, spinning her in the air. She laughed with joy and he put her down but still in his arms.

He cupped his cheek and Marinette’s hand wrapped around his neck. Simultaneously, they leaned in and their lips met in a chaste kiss.

Marinette ran her free hand through Tim’s hair as Tim’s free hand pulled her closer to him by the waist.

Suddenly, the door burst open and they jumped apart. 

It was Chloe, smirking wildly, her phone camera raised.

It didn’t take a genius to know what happened next.

Mari and Tim chased Chloe around the hotel to get her to delete the photo. Chloe crowed loudly that she was going to send the photo to Adrien, Luka and Kagami.

(Mari and Tim did catch her but Chloe had already sent the text.)

The six friends had a buttload of fun the next few days. Occasionally incorporating their work into the mix, Tim had never been so on time to hand in his paperwork.

On Saturday, a few hours before Tim was supposed to go to the airport to get on the Wayne private jet, the six were in Chloe’s room. 

The only sound that could be heard was the faint chatter between Chloe and Kagami who were talking together, the soft strums of Luka on his guitar and Adrien next to him constantly dying while playing Subway Surfers and him raging not-so-quietly. Tim’s head was leaning on two pillows in Marinette’s lap, typing on his laptop which was propped up on his lap while Mari’s pencils scratched against the paper in her sketchbook.

It wasn’t exactly silence, but it was peaceful. An almost silence, if you would.

Until a phone blared to life. 

Everyone jumped as the shrill sound of Tim’s ringtone pierced through the peaceful almost silence.

Tim cringed. “Sorry!” He called. 

He swiped the accept button without looking to see who it was, mildly pissed off.

“What?” He snapped into the phone.

“TIMMY!” A familiar voice burst out. Marinette jumped and dropped her sketchbook on Tim’s face, glaring at the phone. Tim pulled the phone away from his ear, and put a finger to his mouth before pushing the speaker button.

“Tim? You okay?”

“Apart from you bursting my eardrums, I’m fine. What do you want, Jason?” Tim answered dryly. He wasn’t sure if his irritation could be heard through the phone but Jason picked it up.

“Not very nice to your favorite brother, now is it Timmy.” Tim could imagine Jason wagging a finger sarcastically in his face.

“Learned it from you, Jay. But seriously what do you want? I’m kinda busy.”

“You may wanna put your coffee cup down for this.” 

Tim sighed and placed it on the floor.

“Now what?”

A bang was heard from outside and all of them, bar Tim and Mari (Tim was way too lazy to get out of Marinette’s comfortable lap, and she couldn’t get up with him in her lap) rushed to the door to see what was happening. 

Some people had burst into Tim’s room across the hall.

Three guesses who.

“What are you doing, dumbasses?” Chloe’s exasperated voice rung out.

A man with a white tuft in hair was standing in the doorway turned around, phone in hand. He hung up on the call promptly.

“We were looking for our brother, Tim. The receptionist said he was in this room. Have you seen him?” An older man walked out of Tim’s room, with several others hot on his heels. 

The shortest one was dark-haired and had green eyes, the other was a girl with chopped dark hair, an arm wrapped around a taller blonde girl’s waist. There was also a redhead in a wheelchair. The other two there were males, one was an near bald elderly, the other had blue eyes and dark hair and was rather tall.

That was six of them, Chloe noted. She and the others exchanged a look, debating whether or not to let them see Tim. After all, they could be lying and were kidnappers or something.

They obviously noticed the look. The tall one with blue eyes spoke. “You know him! Where is he? Did you kidnap him?”

Adrien choked trying to hold in his laughter. Luka patted him on the back calmly.

A tsk came from the inside of the room. Chloe looked back. Tim shrugged. It was her room, after all.

Chloe bit her lip, looking torn between letting them in or kicking them out. She looked to Kagami for help, and she nodded, but then inclined her head toward Chloe. Basically, ‘I think you should, Tim seems to know them. But he may not want to see them. Your call. Your room.’

The guy with the white tuft looked ready to barge in the room.

Chloe huffed and opened the door wider. She and the other stalked back to their seats with the echoing sound of ‘ridiculous, utterly ridiculous’. Everyone outside exchanged looks, and entered.

They were not expecting to see Tim in a girl’s lap, that was for sure.

Instead of the greeting they were expecting, Tim merely turned his head to look at them before huffing and returning his gaze to his laptop screen.

Marinette laid a hand protectively on Tim’s head and started running her fingers through his hair. 

If they weren’t shocked before, they definitely were now. Their eyes practically bugged out of their head at the sight.

“Replacement?” Jason cautiously asked. 

Tim huffed, much like Chloe, and Marinette ceased her ministrations. Tim whined, but Marinette levelled a glare at him and he sat up.

Marinette muttered softly, “I can see why your self confidence is so low.”

“Nah, Jason’s one of the nicer ones. It’s teasing.” Tim assured her. The girl only pouted and fell back into her seat, picking up Tim’s laptop to read what he was working on before Tim’s family rudely barged in.

Jason looked slightly touched.

Tim sighed and crossed his arms. “What are you guys doing here?” Chloe, Adrien, Kagami and Luka slowly inched around Mari and Tim. This did not go unnoticed by the Waynes.

“We came to visit you, Timbo!” The tall one said.

Tim pinched his nose. “That’s Dick. Barbara. Cassandra. Stephanie. Alfred. Bruce. Damian. Jason.” Tim pointed to each of them in turn. 

Luka spoke up. “I’m Luka. That’s Adrien, Chloe, Kagami and Marinette.” Marinette shifted when her name was called, exposing the laptop screen to the Waynes. Their eyes widened when they saw the bold letters ‘Murders and Muggings: Patrol Recap’. 

Dick coughed into his hand, jerking his head towards the computer. Tim rolled his eyes at Dick’s attempt at being subtle.

Jason and Stephanie snickered. Dick looked offended. 

Dropping all pretence out the window, Tim deadpanned. “They know my secret. Didn’t tell them about yours, though they’ve probably figured it out already.”

“You should’ve told us beforehand, Timothy!” Bruce looked like he was a second away from yelling. A steely glare from Kagami stopped him from doing just that. Cass looked at her in approval.

Marinette bristled at Bruce’s tone, but did not move from her seat. This wasn’t her battle to fight-- it was Tim’s.

Bruce pinched the end of his nose. “I’m disappointed in you, Timothy.” 

Despite knowing Bruce was going to say that, Tim winced. Jason looked pissed and opened his mouth to say something, but someone else beat him to it.

“How dare you.” Marinette’s quiet voice shook with fury as she stood up. Tim squeezed her hand and let go. Adrien, Luka, Kagami and Tim instantly surrounded Tim, forming a protective circle around him.

“How dare you. Tim is the most wonderful person I know. Other from the idiot I share a soul with, my Harmony, my Dragon and Queenie, he is the only person who is genuinely kind and caring. He is the sweetest person I know and if you think you can step into our turf and belittle my boyfriend, you have another thing coming.” Marinette snarled.

Adrien stood up, stepping forward to stand next to Marinette. “I’ve only known Tim for a few days, but he means a lot to all of us. Like Marinette said, you will not step into our turf and be rude to our friend.”

“You underestimate how much power we have here.” Kagami moved over to the other side of Marinette, eyes flashing. 

Chloe stood next to her. “I can very easily kick you out of this hotel, out of Paris, even. Tim is my friend, and we will not stand here and let you talk shit about how he disappointed you.”

Luka stood up, moving next to Adrien. “Like we said, Tim means a lot to us. You have no idea how much he does for all of you. He deals with your stupid company paperwork, even though he’s only 16 and it should be your job. He spends more time helping you on patrol and fighting rogues than paperwork but you scold him because he can’t finish as much as you’d like?”

Marinette’s normally warm blue eyes that were so full of love were now completely devoid of emotion. “That isn’t parenting, Bruce. That’s toxic.” She spat out Bruce’s name with so much loathing and hate, that he unconsciously took a step back.

Tim was very touched. No one had ever done that for him before. No one had the guts to stand up to Bruce Wayne or Batman. His eyes watered and he hastily wiped them away.

Bruce’s eyes flashed, and he strode forward. “I think you underestimate my power.” He spread his arms. “I’m Bruce Wayne. I can kill your career in a heartbeat. I can make sure you are never hired by anyone, nor will you ever be able to make a name for yourself. I’ve almost died before. Damian and Jason have. We deal with things you guys can only dream of. Sure, your father may be the mayor of Paris, Chloe, but I can easily kick him off his position of power. Don’t fuck with us.” 

Marinette’s eyes flashed with surprise at Bruce’s declaration that Jason and Damian have died. Ignoring Bruce, she turned to Adrien, who was squinting at Damian. 

“Do you want to heal them of the Lazarus pits? We can, after all. We’re Creation and Destruction.” Marinette spoke in the Guardian language.

Adrien side eyed the Waynes and nodded. “Even if Bruce is a bitch, Jason and Damian don’t deserve to live like that.” 

Marinette and Adrien looked behind them, past Tim, to where the Kwamis were hiding. Plagg and Tikki nodded. After all, they could always wipe the Waynes’ memories if they weren’t willing to keep it a secret. The Waynes didn’t know what they were saying. Jason stifled a laugh when Adrien caled Bruce a bitch, but the Waynes instantly went on guard at the sound of Jason and Damian’s names (since their names can’t be translated).

Marinette and Adrien turned back to Tim and the others folded, closing the gap that they had left, so no one could lip read or learn from their body language what they were about to do.

Marinette and Adrien walked a few steps back, a few steps in front of Tim but a few steps behind the others. They smiled reassuringly at Tim. They weren’t going to hurt Jason or Damian. Tim nodded. He trusted them.

Tikki and Plagg zipped over to them and phased into their joined hands. Adrien and Marinette smiled to each other closing their eyes. They channelled the Guardian energy, Creation energy and Destruction energy. 

They lifted their raised hands, and as if on command, Chloe and Kagami stepped aside, allowing the green and pink swirling energy in their conjoined hands to shoot towards Jason and Damian. The beam split halfway, hitting both Jason and Damian.

They braced themselves for pain, but they didn’t feel anything. They looked around, and saw the energy. The green colour of it was one everyone instantly recognised as the Lazarus Pit madness.

They could do nothing but watch as more and more green colours was sucked out of Jason and Damian before swirling upwards and over their heads into a ball of green energy.

After what seemed like a lifetime, the green stopped escaping them, and Jason and Damian could feel an immediate relaxation of their feelings. It was like there was anger and negative emotions buried into a pit of their minds, but they didn’t notice that it was there until it was gone.

The green energy ball was now as as big as a bowling ball. It churned once, and started shrinking. Something was compressing it and forcing it into a smaller ball. With a sizzle, it split into two. A pink ball and a green ball, the sizes of an apple.

However, the green ball wasn’t the Lazarus color green. It was a warm green, the colour of emeralds. Despite that, within both the pink and green shell had a green ball, the toxic colour of the Lazarus pit inside. It swirled around in their respective prisons, but couldn’t break free.

The balls of energy slowly drifted towards where Marinette and Adrien were standing with serene looks on their faces.

The pink shell hovered in front of Marinette, while the green one hovered in front of Adrien. The pink and green encasing the Lazarus green broke apart, and the pink and green energy shells flew into their conjoined hands.

Marinette and Adrien opened their eyes. They weren’t eyes anymore, just glowing eye sockets. Marinette’s were pink, and Adrien’s were green. The same colour of the shells, the others realised.

Now what was left were the fizzling balls of the Lazarus pits, its toxic green giving off an eerie glow.

Marinette and Adrien held up their free palms, and the balls rested on their waiting hands.

They looked to each other and seemed to be communicating before the plunged the balls into their chests.

Their whole body glowed for a second before lifting the two up in the air. The Waynes, Luka, Kagami and Chloe jumped when they started talking.

“This hurts.” Marinette admitted. Her face did not show any kind of discomfort. Adrien grinned. “Yeah, it does.” His didn’t either.

They shared a laugh before the green and pink faded, and the two plummeted onto the carpeted floor. Just before they hit it, the green and pink glowed softly again, allowing the two to land gently on the floor, feet first.

The light faded completely and Marinette and Adrien collasped in the chaise behind them, unclasping their hands and panting slightly. Plagg and Tikki zoomed out of their hands as soon as they separated and didn’t even bother hiding.

They plopped themselves on their chosens’ heads and all four of them began to nap.

“Did they..?” Dick uttered in disbelief.

Jason and Damian could only nod.

“Lazarus. Gone?” Cass pressed.

They nodded again.

“Forever?” Bruce croaked.

“Yep.” Marinette’s exhausted voice came from the chaise. Everyone spun to look at her. Chloe ran to her room’s kitchen, bringing out some honey, cookies, camembert, chocolate and eggs.

The active kwamis zoomed out form their hiding spot and got to work on their food. Marinette tiredly pushed herself to her feet, stumbling. Tim caught her. Marinette smiled gratefully at him, and gently scooped Tikki off her head. She reached over and got Plagg too. 

She nudged Tikki with her finger and placed her next to the cookies. She didn’t bother to wake Plagg up; he’d wake up as soon as he smelt camembert. She placed him down, next to Tikki and they woke up, lazily nibbling on their foods.

Mari let out a breathy sigh and swayed on her feet. She curled up next to Adrien and started to snore.

Dick frowned. If she was dating Tim, why was she so cozy with Adrien?

He moved to wake them up.

Suddenly, he stiffened and fell to the floor.

Pollen stood behind them, antennae still poised after stinging Dick. “No one wake the Guardians up.”

Muffled protests from Dick on the ground.

“They share a soul, Dick, being next to each other recharged them faster.” Tim explained.

“They what now?”

-

well yes thats it. 

i kinda got sloppy at the end because i spent almost 8 hours on this, and its only 8k words. im kinda proud of it though lol

no there will probably not be a part two, although i may upload this on ao3

anyway i hope you liked this !! <3

[itsallavengers]

Never meet your heroes

Alright. They’d gotten through the first introduction, he’d managed to make it through the lobby and up the elevator without incident, so Steve was going to say that it had gone well so far.

Now, he thought, came the tricky bit. And that was actually introducing their new colleague to the team.

He took a deep breath, hoping that no one was naked as the doors slid open.

“Okay. So seeing as you’re going to be operating as new SHIELD liaison, you’re probably gonna be seeing a lot of the inside of the tower,” Steve stepped out of the elevator with the new woman SHIELD had sent beside him, silently thankful there was no immediate chaos to be seen, and as they returned their gazes to one another Steve held up three fingers. “This means you’re gonna have to follow three important rules, for the sake of your sanity and ours.”

Her brow creased, and it wasn’t for the first time that day that Steve wondered whether Fury was making the correct decision with this woman. She seemed... easily disapproving. And serious. Steve got that, he did, especially on your first day when you were wanting to establish boundaries, but still-- he hoped that there was a bit more steel to her. 

She pursed her mouth. “Captain Rogers, with all due respect, this is going to be a partnership, not a leadership.”

“I understand that, Ma’am,” he made sure to keep his voice polite as he walked her into the kitchen, “if it’d make you feel better, you can consider them more like guidelines. But I swear, they’re in your best interest.”

“Oh, are we giving grumpy-pants the house rules?” Steve ground his teeth as he turned to Clint, who’d become visible on the kitchen counter once they turned the corner. He grinned with a mouthful of cheerios. “Is this her face before or after rule one? Because it doesn’t spell good things if it’s--”

“Please ignore the homeless man who’s taken residence in our tower,” Steve said loudly, talking over Clint and blocking him from sight with his sizeable body, “he just showed up one day and refused to leave.”

“SHIELD liaison woman, don’t you think that’s workplace harassment?” Clint leaned sideways and looked at her with a deep frown, and Steve felt a Cheerio bounce off the back of his head. He made a mental note to buy nothing other than sugar-free granola from now on.

Mary Collins, said SHIELD liaison woman in question with 14 years’ worth of experience under her belt that she seemed determined to put to good use here, simply raised her eyebrow at Steve. “I think it’s warranted,” she informed him evenly, and then let herself sigh as she raised her hands. “Alright then. Give me the rules, Captain.”

Okay, that seemed like a joke of sorts. Steve could work with that. At least she wasn’t a complete buzzkill. “Alright, rule number one. No shop-talk at breakfast or dinner. We take food very seriously, and Thor starts breaking things if he gets interrupted too many times. For Tony’s bank’s sake, it’s best if you could just schedule your meetings around that.” Bruce walked through the kitchen at that point, looking like he was leaving somewhere, but he stopped to shake Mary’s hand before he left, giving her a smile and a short ‘good luck’. Steve marched ahead. 

“Rule number two-- sometimes we have fights. And sometimes they get physical.  I know that this might be considered unhealthy on any other working unit or team, but please consider the fact that we are all incredibly dysfunctional and emotionally maladapted.” When Mary’s eyebrows lifted again, Steve held out his hands and resisted the urge to sigh. This was the fifth Liaison they’d gotten through in the last year. Most of them barely even lasted a month before they ran. “It never results in long-lasting injury, and we tend to leave Tony out of it, but there may be occasional scraps that break out while you’re in our company. Just let us work it out of our systems and don’t get involved.”

“That’s...” Mary seemed a little lost for words. “Have you considered therapy? One-on-one and group, perhaps?”

For the sake of avoiding a long and rather awkward conversation, Steve tactfully chose to ignore the question. “Rule three- possibly the most important one- is to never, ever enter Tony or Bucky’s room without giving warning. Ever. And also, just...” oh God, this was a conversation that one of those two men should be having with their new colleague, not him-- he really hated being team leader sometimes. “Get used to PDA,” he muttered eventually, “lots of it. I’d just avoid them when they’re together, honestly. And don’t get threatening with one of them when the other is present. Oh, and although the team is allowed to tease them, you’re very much not.” He turned to her, suddenly serious, because he wanted her to know this, more than any of the other rules. “I mean it. They’re happy. SHIELD don’t have any business commenting on that. We’re their friends, so we’re okay. Until you reach that status, you will politely refrain from passing comment.”

By this point, poor Mary Collins seemed utterly bewildered. Which was fair enough; outside of the tower, no one knew that Bucky Barnes and Tony Stark were an item. Bucky was still adjusting to everything, most of all himself, and so for now they were keeping it quiet. The liaison would have to know due to the simple fact that she would be spending time in their safe space at the tower, but Pepper had already drawn up enough contracts and NDAs to drown the woman as soon as she left for SHIELD again. 

Steve had to hand it Mary though. She held her ground, even as Captain America glared at her. “I take it this means Barnes and Stark are a couple,” she said eventually, having processed all the information, “which I doubt will affect my job much. I, uh, will take note of the room thing, though.” She gave the smallest of flinches. “I’ve had enough trauma from sharing a dorm with my sister.”

That was a story Steve would definitely be extracting from her when she inevitably joined in on one of their team drinking sessions, and he stored the nugget away for later use. At that point, they’d entered the communal living room, where Nat was sprawled on the couch flicking through the TV, Thor was sat idly scrolling through his twitter feed, and Bucky & Tony were both sat snuggled into the loveseat in the corner of the room. Naturally, Mary’s eyes went straight for them; they’d only just finished talking about the two of them, after all. 

And of course, they were being all romantic. What else was new? Tony was curled up in Bucky’s lap, the two of them talking quietly as Tony scraped his fingers through Bucky’s long hair and twisted it up at the back, tying it out of the way for him. They were almost nose to nose, lips moving in conversation that Steve couldn’t pick up on, and a moment later they watched from afar as Bucky started stroking his metal hand teasingly over Tony’s thigh, sneaking under the fabric of his dressing gown. Steve did not doubt that that was the only item of clothing that Tony was currently sporting. 

He coughed loudly. “This is Mary,” he declared, and Bucky paused the feeling-up of his boyfriend in order to twist his head over to Steve, “she is our new SHIELD liaison. She does not need to see Tony’s junk during our first meeting, Buck.”

Tony pouted, as if the request was unreasonable, and it was only when Steve gave him a sharp glare that he moved; giving Bucky one last peck on the mouth before sliding off the man’s lap. He managed to save his modesty with a well-placed hand, and Steve could only silently apologise to this SHIELD agent. She had her work cut out from here on in. “I suppose I can save my junk for one man,” he agreed, turning back to Bucky for a second as he wandered over. Steve watched Bucky smile at him from the love-seat, such a soft thing. 

Even when they were insufferably touchy-feely with one another, it was hard for Steve to get annoyed by it. They just made each other too damn happy, and Steve was too damn pleased for them. They deserved it, he supposed. 

“Miss Collins,” Tony extended a hand and beamed at her, lax and loose and not fake at all. Steve eyed the marks on Tony’s neck, and figured there was probably a very obvious reason as to Tony’s uncharacteristically positive early-morning attitude. “What a pleasure to meet you.”

There was a dubious look given to Tony’s hand, and Steve couldn’t blame her. They had just seen Bucky a second away from giving Tony a handie, so God knows where Tony’s own had been. But it seemed she braved the contact anyway, because she took it firmly and inclined her head. “I’ve already been given the house rules,” she said with the smallest of smiles, and Tony chuckled, clasping his spare hand over hers.

“And you will also be given a very lengthy and watertight NDA that prohibits you from saying a word about mine and Mr Barnes’ relationship,” he added on, voice cheerful as he continued to shake her hand, “were you to break any of the clauses within or make my boyfriend’s face sad in any way, I will sue you for everything you own. Just so we’re clear.”

“Tony!” Steve glared at him, but Tony just smiled back, carefree-- although Steve knew him too well not to miss the smallest hint of steel in his eyes, and also be very acutely aware that Tony meant every word. He was fiercely protective of Bucky and his mental wellbeing. It had been what had driven off the last three SHIELD agents who’d rocked up to try and take Mary’s position. And Bucky had been responsible for the other two, for largely the same reason (although Clint accidentally pushing him off the roof of the tower might have been a contributing factor in one of them, Steve wasn’t too sure).

Mary eyed Tony for a second, before stepping away. “I see what you mean about avoiding the two of them” She told Steve drily, and Steve couldn’t help but grin as he gave Tony a light shove and sent him back over to Bucky, who was waiting on the loveseat. “Message received though. If I were less professional than I am, I might have been shitting my pants out of fear right about now.” Her mouth pursed again and she adjusted her glasses on her face. “Luckily, I’m a little too caught up on the fact that the God of Thunder apparently runs a stan twitter for Ariana Grande to care about being threatened by Iron Man.”

Steve followed her gaze to where she was looking over the couch. Thor appeared to be in the process of making a tweet about the injustice of ‘his queen’s’ new song not making #1 spot on Itunes. It was followed by a gif of kermit appearing to commit suicide. “He also has one for politics,” Steve attempted weakly, “I... it’s Asgardian politics, mind you, but quite informative nonetheless.”

She nodded, eyes somewhat glassy for a moment. Steve understood. You walked in the door of the Avengers Tower expecting... uh... something other than what you got, most of the time. If you caught them while they were mid-training session, you’d definitely be impressed! But- ah- any other occasion, and this was what you were more likely to get. 

Iron Man and the Winter Solider canoodling on some piece of furniture, Hawkeye eating food without cutlery, Thor starting arguments with twitter stans, and Black Widow refusing to change out of her pyjamas until after midday. 

Steve had accepted the fact he would never have any respect to his name ever again. Actually, he’d accepted that back in 2013 when Tony had drunkenly convinced Steve to buy several golden retrievers and then pose with them on social media. Without clothes on. The dogs had artistically covered his private parts, sure, but his image had never quite been the same. 

“I’m just going to apologise in advance,” Steve told her resignedly, “you’re going to be seeing some shit. You may leave here with more trauma than you started with.”

He watched Mary adjust her bag and cock her head at him. “It takes quite a lot to shake me,” she informed him, but Steve just held out his hands to the room. 

“We’re very shaky people.”

“Oh, believe me, you haven’t met my sister.” Mary’s eyes rolled and then focused on something behind Steve’s shoulder. He turned just in time to watch Bucky drape himself over Steve’s left side, fingers pinching his cheek playfully.

“Is he telling you how delinquent we all are?” Bucky asked, “is he making it out like he’s the only sensible one here?”

“Of course he is.” Oh, and now apparently Tony had joined at Steve’s other side, “although I’m betting he’s choosing not to mention that time with the Trans-Tower Long Jump Dare and the skinny-dipping incident in Central P--”

“ALRIGHT!” Steve held up his hands and clamped both of them around each friend’s mouth rapidly, feeling his cheeks flush. Mary was staring at him blankly, but Steve did not doubt that she knew where that sentence had been headed. “Alright, I think that’s enough for the introductions. Bucky, kiss Tony so that neither of you speak again.”

“Happily,” Bucky grinned and then ducked around Steve’s side, his hand curling around Tony’s waist easily. They both giggled, Tony pausing to add a final hurried “the skinny dipping was what broke the last SHIELD liaison, so good luck to you” before Bucky stuck his tongue in Tony’s mouth and silenced him. They wandered off somewhere, probably for more enthusiastic sex or whatever-- Steve had learned not to ask. Mary was just nodding to herself, over and over and over again. She seemed to be in mild shock. Steve didn’t know what to think about the fact that it was the stories of Steve’s own... less than stellar behaviour that appeared to have been a sticking point for her. Thor ran an Ariana Grande fan account, for fuck’s sake, but it was Steve doing some harmless dares that shocked her?

“I think I might have jumped into this job a little too quickly,” she stated in the end, looking at Steve and then looking down at Steve’s crotch. “I may need some time to think this over.”

“That’s fine. You’ve lasted longer than the second guy. He walked in, saw Thor and Bruce fighting naked, and then walked out again.”

A long, heavy silence followed. Then a loud splutter. “Wh... why are you always naked when these incidents occur?”

Steve just looked at her. Again, he was sure he’d used to own more self-respect than this. “If I knew, I would tell you.”

Mary didn’t speak for a while. Steve sighed. Mary copied. “I can see Mr Stark grabbing the Winter Soldier’s ass out of the corner of my eye,” she commented dazedly.

“Yeah, they do that a lot.”

“Right.” Mary blinked. “I’m going to go home and have a drink.”

“That’s understandable.”

“A big drink.”

“Again, I get it.”

A long pause. A small cough. Then, “I suppose... I’ll be in touch.”

Oh. Okay, well-- that was better than Steve had been expecting. He’d thought she might just hightail it straight out of there. With a nod, he led her back over to the elevator they’d arrived in, once more spotting Clint, still eating from the cereal box. It truly was a miracle he was as ripped as he was. That shouldn’t be possible considering the vast amounts of sugar that constantly ran through the man’s blood. “Be quiet and eat your breakfast,” he declared sharply, before the man had even opened his mouth. They did not need to regale Miss Collins with any more stories this morning. 

Clint threw another Cheerio at him, but Steve saw that one, and he plucked it out of the air and popped it into his mouth without looking. Mary was still staring. “This house is a fucking nightmare.”

“I...” Steve tried to think of a way to defend his team. “Yeah,” he admitted, when nothing sprang to mind. He pressed the button for the lobby and then stepped out, giving her his best smile. He noticed her hands were clutching very tightly to her bag, which held nothing other than the file on SHIELD regulations and protocols that she had been supposed to get the team together and go through before leaving. 

Steve figured they weren’t quite ready for that yet, though. Her rules could not help her here. 

“Have a safe journey!” He called out to her as the doors slid shut, waving cheerily. She didn’t respond, but her hand tightened around the bag, and as soon as she was gone from sight Steve took the time to groan. Loudly. “I hate all of you!”

“You just hate the fact you haven’t got any sense of shame any more, Captain,” Clint informed him, pointing the cereal box in his direction as Steve walked through. He sulkily snatched a handful of Cheerios from the box and shoved them into his mouth, choosing to ignore Clint’s words. He was headed for the living room, but at that moment Nat and Thor traipsed out of it, looking equally as sulky as they too went for the Cheerios and grabbed handfuls. 

“Don’t go in there,” Nat said mutinously, “they’ve started canoodling again.”

“Loudly,” Thor added.

Steve looked between them all, and then leaned back against the fridge. They fought monsters on a biweekly basis. They’d been through hell together- survived torture, mind control, death and everything in between. They were Earth’s Mightiest Heroes, in every sense of the word, and there was nothing that they would not do for each other. 

“If they get bodily fluids on the couch, I’m throwing them both off the tower without hesitation,” Steve ground out, folding his arms over his chest. 

“Larry Erikson-style!” Clint whooped, and Nat smacked him over the head instantly. 

“You said that was an accident.”

“It was! Mostly. I mean-- it wasn’t my fault that he was trying to get me to sign documents while I was in the middle of playing water-tennis with Thor. I won’t do it to Mary though, she seems nice.”

Steve listened to the three of them being to argue over the merits of throwing a liaison off the tower once they got annoying, and he didn’t bother trying to tell them that was a bad idea. He just ducked down into the bottom cupboard and grabbed Thor’s Asgardian mead, pouring a generous serving into his cup of tea.

If Mary got to drink after being around the Avengers for five minutes, Steve figured he’d earned this, considering he’d been around them for five years at this point. He was fairly sure he’d lost a good 80% of his sanity in that time. 

Ah, well, he thought as he watched Thor clap him on the back and tell him that his butt looked terrific in the new sweatpants he was wearing-- you win some, you lose some. And he thought he might have won more than he’d lost. 

Just about.

--

Kofi

[bigskydreaming]

In the extremely unlikely event that Bruce dies for real, or finally retires, who out of his various children do you think should (not could) inherit the Cowl? Just based on skills and temperament, who do you think would be a perfect fit for the next Batman?

I’m a firm proponent of the Cass For Batman movement. 

Here’s the thing…..I think by the time any of the Batkids are old enough/tall enough to pull off the cape and cowl look….any and all of the Batkids have the skills to be Batman, or hell, even to surpass him. I’ve always said the high concept of the Batfam is that they’re a family of Mary Sues, that’s their point. Put any one of them in a room with any non group of Bats, and they’re all by default likely to be the most skilled, best fighter, etc, etc. But them together….eh, too many people IMO spend too much time trying to rank them when it seems pointless to me…..you put a family of Mary Sues all together in the same room, they’re all still Mary Sues. (And keep in mind, I’m not using Mary Sue as an insult. Obviously. I love them all, lol. And Batman is the original Mary Sue as far as I’m concerned).

So bottom line is, any one of them could be Batman, skill-wise. Cass I think is the only one who has consistently truly wanted to be, temperament and ambition wise.

I was a big fan of Dickbats, when he wore the cowl. He was good at it, both times, after Bane and then when Bruce was believed dead. He’s Bruce’s eldest and has been by his side the longest of all of them, there’s a degree to which part of me wants to say it should always go to Dick after Bruce, just in acknowledgment of all of that, but honestly? It shouldn’t IMO - again, I liked the Batman we got when Dick wore the cowl before, but it took a toll on him from a character standpoint, because he’s never wanted to be Batman is the thing. He wants to be his own person, of his own design….yeah, he stepped up and made being Batman work for him, on his terms, but it was never his first choice, and IMO never would be, and I’m all about Dick getting to choose. So no, it shouldn’t be him.

There’s at least one Earth in the DC Multiverse where Jason became Batman and was good at it. But with Jason its all about temperament. I honestly don’t think Jason wants to be Batman, not anymore. He wanted to be Batman during Battle for the Cowl, but that Jason was written extremely OOC then and by Morrison as well after that, IMO. He cared more about making a point to his family - or at least Bruce (or even just the ghost of Bruce) - than he cared about innocents, and that’s never been a take on him I find convincing or compelling. I’m fine with Jason killing, I’m behind him on a lot of occasions, but that’s only a Jason who kills out of empathy for the victims who will never see justice otherwise, because a broken system just flat out doesn’t care about them. 

And I think ultimately Jason’s biggest grievance with Bruce is he sees Bruce’s refusal to kill his murderer as proof that Bruce ultimately doesn’t care about Jason, based on an inverse of the same logic - and with this being something that Jason has trouble just flat out owning up to in that specific sense (at least after UTRH), because he refuses to be a victim, and Bruce has already made his choice there once, as far as Jason’s concerned, and Jason is too proud to beg or ask a second time. But during the Battle for the Cowl era, Jason wanted to be Batman, but to prove a point, that his way of being Batman is better than Bruce’s, and like I said…..that just never felt like Jason to me. His conflict with people is often based on him believing he’s right, but its not truly about proving that or needing to, IMO….he just believes he is and does what he does. He craves being avenged, not being validated.

So bottom line is, I don’t think Jason in this main Earth would ever really want to be Batman, because BFTC aside…..I think he’s perfectly aware and comfortable with the fact that his way is not Batman’s way. That who he is by choice is not who Batman is, or would really choose to be. And he’s fine with that. The thing about Jason, as far as I’ve always seen it, is he’s never been upset that Batman wouldn’t kill the Joker, his murderer, that Batman wouldn’t avenge him. He gets why Batman wouldn’t. The thing that he can’t ever really reconcile is that Bruce, his Dad wouldn’t avenge him, whether as Batman or just as a grieving father. And that ultimately has nothing to do with Batman as a concept, as a hero or anything with someone who is not Bruce under that cowl. And thus who and what Batman is, ultimately has nothing Jason really needs or wants to be.

Tim, just like the older two, is more than capable of being Batman…..but he doesn’t want to be either. He’s afraid of who he might be as Batman, ultimately. He’s more than once been shown visions of a future where he’s Batman, or faced time traveling future versions of himself as Batman, and its never been a pretty picture. Tim as Batman, in the various futures he’s seen that come to pass in, almost as a warning, is someone who in each of them has kinda gone full Dark Side, embraced the idea of vengeance over justice, or total control over even the chance of chaos befalling someone he cares about, etc. Because Tim does have these tendencies, I’ve always maintained, and he’s not oblivious to them either. He doesn’t deal well with loss, and has a tendency to lose himself in his refusal to accept loved ones as being gone (even though yes, admittedly he is sometimes right to), or just….a denial of the way things are. 

And Tim, like any of the Batkids, is more than capable of circumventing the way things are, by virtue of genius inventions, time travel, etc, or manipulating powerful beings into acting exactly as he needs them to in order to achieve some end, etc. So the thing is, any of the Batkids losing themselves to their refusal to accept things the way they are, the natural order of things, is a potentially dangerous thing, because there is very little they aren’t capable of when they put their minds to it, but Tim is the one who is most afraid of this possibility. Dick rejects the possibility as willfully and stubbornly as he can, when people try and force it on him. Jason has at times accepted it and not looked back until much later if at all. Cass has lived it and found it to be her worst nightmare, and Damian was taught to embrace it and had to unlearn that.

Tim is distinct in this regard, in the sense that he’s the one most afraid of being tempted by it, and afraid that he could be tempted…….its not so much that he’s walked a fine line with this in the past, he’s never really done all that much in terms of becoming the future versions of himself he fears, here and now in the present….but he is aware that something about him and his choices attracts the likes of Ra’s al Ghul’s attentions the way Dick attracts the attentions of Slade, Cobb and various other assassins. Ra’s tends to focus on Tim and trying to get him to side with him, more than he really ever does the others, not because any of them couldn’t be just as deadly were they to side with them, but rather I’ve always viewed it a matter of temperament……I think Ra’s has always viewed Tim as being the one he has the best chance of convincing to side with him or try things from his POV…..because he knows or believes, or at least Tim sees it that way, as Tim being the one who could be potentially sold on the idea of total control. Of having the power to ensure nothing harms anything that he is protective of, that he has power enough to stop even death from reaching his loved ones.

But, at the same time, Tim is also the Batkid who is most invested in…..kinda….preserving the idea, and the reality, of the Batman who has been his hero since he was a kid. The Batman that he tracked down and sought out in order to try and help him in any way he could when he was only thirteen. To try and keep safe and to keep from becoming the darker version of himself he was becoming after Jason’s death in his grief. 

Like….to Dick, Batman was always just Bruce, his partner….he wasn’t someone he had a lot of preconceptions about before he met him. He’s never really been anything but Bruce to him, and thus he’s never actually been some larger than life figure. He’s known him as his guardian and father figure as much as he’s known him as his mentor and teacher…they go hand in hand for him, not really much of a time gap in between him being the one and becoming the other. So in as much as Dick has always looked up to Bruce from an early age, Batman has never been any kind of mythic ideal for him….its just Bruce in another guise. His guardian, friend and eventually dad. 

And then to Jason….I’ve talked about this before, but I think Jason and Dick are both the reverse of Tim and Damian because the latter two came looking for Batman and stayed for Bruce, but the older two came to trust Bruce first and only came to trust Batman because of that. And so to Jason, Bruce was his dad even before Batman was his mentor and partner, and no matter how much Jason may have enjoyed being his partner at times and wanted to impress him as Robin, it was always Bruce that Jason valued far more than Batman. If he had to choose between the two, he’d choose Bruce every time, and at times I would describe their conflicts even before his death as being the result of Batman kinda getting in the way, when Jason just wanted to talk to Bruce, his dad. 

But to Tim….even while its not like Tim as Robin was naive or had this unrealistic view of Bruce or the fact that he was as human as anyone else….and even though its not like he didn’t value Bruce for who Bruce was aside from Batman, and eventually see and value him as his father……there’s always been a difference to the way he speaks of Batman, the idea of Batman. He’s the first of the Batkids to ever really approach viewing the cape and the man underneath it as something….necessary to Gotham. That the city or even the world needed, the way Batman was before Jason’s death, and that Tim felt driven to try and bring him back to. Dick and Jason were both aware of Bruce’s good qualities and all the things Batman did to protect the world of course, but while to them that was more or less just Bruce doing things in the way that made the most sense to him or worked best for him, Tim’s the one whose first real glimpse of Batman and view of him was formulated at a distance, where all he could really see was what the Batman presented to the world and thus represented, before he was close enough to see the man behind the mask. 

So he’s the one to first or most wholly truly grasp the symbol of Batman….and that’s what I’m trying to get at there. He respects what Batman stands for, the necessity of that, the Batman he’s dedicated so much time and energy and his own life to safeguarding and preserving that heroic/protector spirit of his as much as he has prioritized physically guarding that Batman’s back as Robin…..like, Batman as Tim wholly believes Batman should be, matters far to much to Tim to ever ‘jeopardize’ by giving into Ra’s temptations, or his own dark visions or future glimpses of who he might become. And so no, Tim would never want to be Batman either, because he’s afraid of the Batman he might be, and its too important to him that Batman be what Tim believes the city and the world needs Batman to be.

And then there’s Damian, who again, is more than capable, at least by the time he’s an adult, and unlike pretty much all the others, has spent most of his life intent on becoming Batman. He’s always viewed it as his birthright, his destiny…….but that was before he came to Gotham, met his father as well as his brothers, and was Robin to Dick’s Batman. There’s a lot of reasons why I think whether he’s even totally realized it yet or not, I don’t think Damian still wants to become Batman even as of this point. Such as the fact that with the right writers, he’s discovered that he likes the freedom to choose who he might be, the unknown of it all rather than the certainty and thus the restrictions of being confined to an inevitable destiny. Various events since he’s come to Gotham, like him dying, discovering his grandfather intended to try and use him as his new younger vessel, etc….many of them to different degrees have made him view fate as being just as likely to be a trap as it is to bring the freedom and power he once thought his fate promised him. He’s still young (and he’s still written by a bunch of shitty writers who see him and think “Oh, this is a brat with an attitude and a history of violence, that means he’s basically the Antichrist like that other Damian was, yes?”) so there’s a lot of stopping and starting with this character growth, but the growth is there, if you focus on it and not just the writers who are like “I see a kid named Damian, I write that kid named Damian as pure evil, cuz I gotta, its the rule.”

But also……there’s an endless number of ways in which Dick and Damian are the mirror of Bruce and Dick at their beginning, and this is just one more of those to me. Because I think deep down, Damian no longer wants to be Batman, not all that dissimilar to how Dick never wanted to be Batman. Because it was never that Dick didn’t respect everything Batman stood for, and I don’t think it was ever that he was afraid of drowning in the darkness typically associated with the mantle….because Dick was the one who was truly in the dark spot when he first met Batman. Batman was his light before Dick ever climbed out of his depression, reignited his own inner light, and became Bruce’s light too. So Bruce’s Batman didn’t ever equal just darkness to Dick in the first place. No, Dick’s real issue with being Batman was always just that it wasn’t him…it was his dad. He didn’t want to wear his dad’s old clothes, he wanted to be someone that was uniquely and distinctly him.

And I think its the same thing for Damian at this point. Even though he’s been Bruce’s Robin as much as he was Dick’s, Dick was Damian’s first Batman, the one who made him Robin in the first place. And I think despite what Damian grew up thinking Batman was….when he came to Gotham he really only had enough time to grasp the fact that nothing he thought he knew about Batman or his father was accurate….before Bruce was believed dead. So the new image he formed of Batman, of who and what he was, the Batman that replaced those false impressions…..was Dick’s version of Batman. And now, I think, that’s forever kinda immortalized in Damian’s mind as what Batman is supposed to be, and so I don’t think he wants to be Batman anymore, because that’s not him. 

And not even because of insecurity, like he wouldn’t be capable of being that Batman, but rather because I think Dick is the one who taught him to seek more for himself than just what he’d been told was his destiny by others, to choose it for himself….and so I think Damian would never truly want to be Batman at this point because to him, Batman is forever the guy telling him to be his own man, something new, something he hasn’t even thought of yet…..not just some other version of the identity he’d thought was his destiny since he was old enough to talk.

Duke also would be more than capable of being Batman, and I could see certain AUs where it might end up being him, and I’d like to see some of those AUs, but ultimately I don’t see him wanting it either for much the same reason as most of the other boys: Duke’s someone who’s also found power in finding himself in his own identity, building his own mantle and persona and name for himself from scratch as The Signal, rather than step into the shoes left by someone else. I’m short changing Duke here, as he deserves more than just that sparknotes paragraph, but this post has more than gotten away from me already and its late, so I will happily come back to that at a later time if anyone wants.

But that brings me back to Cass. As I said, its not about her being the best fighter of them, like, that making her inherently more suited for the cowl skill wise or whatever….since any and all of them are hyper-competent across the board and possessing their own various specialties. So they’re all more than skilled enough. But its a temperament thing, the thing she has marked off in the pro column of “Why I Should Be Batman” that none of the others do. Its that of all of them, she’s the one who truly wants it, and for the right reasons. Who sees power in it, for herself, the kind of power that she would choose to wield in defense of others, power that she wants to be the kind that defines her and who she is as a hero. As opposed to the boys who see it as something they’re leery of, or that they feel embodies a sense of self that just isn’t them. 

Any of the boys as Batman, just like Dick did, would likely do better at it than they thought. They would likely do so through each of them subtly redefining it in their own ways, making it their version of Batman, a Batman each of them could comfortably be, without losing themselves in it. But the same isn’t true for Cass, I think, because that’s the point: she wants to be the Batman that Batman already is, to her. 

She wants to fill those shoes, because of all of the kids, she and Tim I think are the closest here, in that they’re the two who never fully stopped seeing the larger than life symbol of Batman, even after getting to know and love the man underneath it….but while for Tim, that symbol was more about what it represented to Gotham, what it could be for the world….for Cass, that symbol was more about what it represented to her. Batman was her hero, before she ever saw him be anyone else’s…..he was what saved her, that made her believe she was worth saving, and Batman, that Batman, is what Cass in turn wants to be for other people. The hero for them that he was for her.

At his best, Bruce has been many things to his various children, as both Bruce Wayne and as Batman. He was the light that first showed Dick the way through his trauma, he was the father that Jason never had, he was the symbol that Tim believed in from afar and that lived up to that promise even when Tim met the man underneath, and he was the legend that Damian heard and wanted to be.

But for Cass, and only Cass….he was all of those things at the same time.

And that is why I think Cass is ultimately the only true successor to the Batman that is, (or at least, the Batman that he is, when at his best aka not written by Tom King or those of similar ilk). Rather than a successor who would become a Batman in name, but with their own individualized take and reinterpretation of the cowl and what it means or stands for when worn by them. And its why I think Cass is also the only one who truly wants to be that successor, and for reasons she finds fulfillment in, rather than seeing as baggage that weighs her down or keeps her mired in the past, in grief, stuck walking the same path someone else already walked. She knows who Batman is to her, and what his symbol represents, and she knows that its everything she wants to be, and nothing that she would feel trapped or limited by, rather than empowered by.  

I think any and all of her siblings have the potential to someday mirror their own pasts with Batman and Bruce, and who he was to them:

For Dick, being who and what Bruce was for him when he needed him first - that means being Dick Grayson, with Batman merely a secondary title. Just like it was Bruce Wayne he had needed, with Batman merely incidental to that….and all of this being born out as true with Damian, when he ultimately responded to Dick’s efforts to reach him far more than Dick-as-Batman’s.

For Jason, being who and what Bruce was for him might mean being a father someday - and with who he is as the Red Hood potentially being the thing that gets in the way of that, just as Batman was what sometimes got in the way of him and Bruce. And thus with the Red Hood being the thing he might have to choose to hang up and put behind him, if he truly wants to learn from the mistakes his father made with him.

For Tim, being who and what Bruce was for him at first, would ironically mean being the darker, grief-driven version of himself that needed someone else to remind him of who he was…..a version of himself for some precocious would-be hero to save the way Tim had once been determined to save Bruce from himself.

And for Damian, being who and what Bruce was to him at first, would unfortunately mean being in someone else’s eyes no different - and no more approachable - than the legend Bruce originally existed as for him. It might mean being distant and out of reach even as what someone really needed was for him to be there and in the flesh. And thus by extension meaning that given the choice, Damian would likely prefer to be for that someone what Dick taught him to be, what Dick was for him…..real and present for that someone else, even if they weren’t that person’s first choice.

And so only for Cass, would being who and what Bruce was for her, mean Cass being someone’s hero. The person who saved by inspiring, just as Batman had saved her by inspiring her. Protecting her by the mere act of proving that he wanted to protect her. Who gave her a new life just by showing her what was out there and what that life could look like.

That’s the Batman that Gotham’s future needs. The same Batman she needed, and the one only she can truly be because of that.

And that’s why IMO it should be her who ultimately takes their father’s place as Gotham’s Dark Knight.

[danwhobrowses]

My Hopes going forward with the DCAMU

Spoilers for Apokalips War Below, you have been warned

So this weekend I finally got around to watching Apokalips War and it was pretty good, lots of good ideas thrown about there, but the ending resolved that we are entering another Flashpoint meaning that the whole universe is about to reboot again. I do know that the first in this Reboot is a Superman movie called Man of Tomorrow but there are a list of things I do hope we’ll see in other DCAMU movies.

Less From the Trinity Look we get it, the Trinity are the big 3 when it comes to popularity. This doesn’t mean you have to shoehorn them in all the time, JL Dark did not need Batman’s presence for instance, it’s a bit of a spotlight hog and it undermines the characters around them. So in Apokalips War, Wonder Woman manages to just barely be bested by the combined efforts of Mera, Martian Manhunter and Hawkman and that is just nonsense, you know how fucking powerful J’onn is? Or Carter Hall by that matter? The disrespect. Same can be said for Bats, sits on a chair for 2 years but he’s still in peak condition to fight Damian who leads the League of Assassins and basically have him at his mercy. In fact Bad Blood he gets mind controlled, beats Dick whose whole arc is about being a worthy successor and just snaps back out, less of this LOLBATSWINS stuff, Bruce is not a Mary Sue, he’s allowed to be beaten. Seeing less of the Trinity can also open doors to more movies about other characters; the Lanterns (ALL of them, not just Hal and a Jon and Jade cameo, talking Blue Lanterns, Star Sapphires and whatnot), J’onn, Hawkman, Nightwing, Dr. Fate, maybe even some more obscure characters too like Spectre and Jonah Hex. I mean, Etrigan was a blast in Apokalips War, even if he lost to Wondy it was a salivating fight to have. More AU Stories May be a little contradictory to the prior but most of the alternate universe stories were pretty good; Red Son, Flashpoint, Gotham by Gaslight, All-Star Superman and importantly Gods and Monsters - gimme that sequel DC! - the self-contained stories can provide some good palate cleansers or some unique scenarios, like Gods and Monsters they don’t have to all be existing, try with some original concepts. You could even try doing some Batman Beyond movies if the licenses are there, Justice League Beyond? Get a little crazier, but a tad less gory Sometimes the key part to enjoyment is just riding the wave on how something is so crazy that it supersedes all manner of sense, DC does have a lot of places where there can be wackiness and fun, look at Lobo for one. I could also suggest DC’s favourite spawn Damian having his own solo adventure, could introduce Nobody, Cassandra Cain (Not the shitty Birds of Prey one) or Damian’s gigantic red steed Goliath into the picture. I may not have been a full fan of his relationship with Raven, but testing out new things is good, the aforementioned Etrigan vs Wonder Woman for instance was great, Trigon-Supes vs Darkseid was some spicy stuff as well. The other side of this though is to tone it down on the gore, like Apokalips war was like Days of Future Past made by the ones who did Castlevania, so many organs...not saying you can’t have gore, but less is more. Provide an Array of Stories One of the movies did alright with highlighting Jade’s PTSD and the mental challenges she was facing in general life, it was nice to see a film highlight that. Comic Books are not all about showy fights after all, some have deep messages or are purposed to show awareness for things. Mister Miracle could be a good avenue to go for the more emotive plot angles, tragic angles could also be done by using Emerald Twilight to The Final Night, being both an AU story and one that focuses heavily on Green Lantern, potentially being a Flashpoint ripple from the Reign of the Supermen movie. Don’t be afraid to go backwards either; some Year One or Origin stories wouldn’t go amiss, could even go further back and introduce the JSA. Build to another End-Phase Movie DCAMU are doing well with a similar MCU formula, but they can go a bit harder with it. Instead of a Phase-End reboot this time though we simply have a big arc finale involving an original concept or an existing large event such as Blackest Night or Dark Nights: Metal. Building to a bigger film can open the door for other characters to be introduced and plot angles to work, so for instance if you were building to Metal you’d need to introduce all the metals Bruce gets exposed to for Barbatos to open the gateway, this also will require Hawkman to have some explanation of Nth Metal, Cyborg for Promethium and the Court of Owls for Elecrium, as well as Dionesium and Batmanium. Having an end goal does help with making stepping stones to the next bit. But here’s to the next saga!

[buttercreamfrostedmurdercake]

SLS

SLS SPOILERS OMG

Okay, two reasons for this. First, I get morbid and think that maybe I'll get sick and my story will never be finished. Second, I've got SLS-specific writers block. So, since I've plotted 90% of the damn story (including snapshops and a short sequal to follow the epilogue), I'm going to ramble. Do Not Read if plot spoilers are a thing you do not like (personally, I'm all about execution, two cakes blah blah, but it's not the only school of thought so there's your warning before I go off.)

I'm so pissed with myself how I've made so little progress on SLS all these years. I feel so guilty sometimes for working on other WIPs instead of SLS, aka the one people actually read and subscribed to.

Worse, I have the damn this plotted. I need to edit the first chapter slightly, change the tone and dialgue in some parts just a smidge to help complete the circle to the finale. But that's it.

That's right, it's all plotted. All the foreshadowing and action and huge chunks of dialogue are either complete or have been first-drafted (I write like I'm telling myself the story, there's lots of '[blah blah this happens]', it's my process). I know how it's going to end, I've written the damn epilogue already in order to give readers a satisfying conclusion despite swerving away from a clean cut 'happily ever after'. (I needed to focus on my theme, which was breaking the cycle of generational trauma and doing what's right not what's 'supposed' to happen.)

Biggest spoiler: Bruce loves Claire and knows she's bonded to Lex for life. He's willing to bow out and even let her still be a part of Damian's life (Talia is the villian, I'm sorry guys, it's not a hater story, she does us the immense favor of killion Lionel but she doesn't want to co-parent with Bruce, she wants to rule the world).

He tells Lex this after he recouperates from the final battle but Lex sees Claire, the twins, and Damian together as a family in the Manor and realizes he can't give them what Bruce can. Lex's list of ambitions doesn't have 'be the best dad/husband for my alien/assassin family' at the top like Bruce does. He can protect them but Bruce wants the whole package.

Bruce is like 'Kryptonians are, most often, poly. I accept and love that part of Claire, plus, I'm Ace. There's a place for you in our lives if you want in.' Lex says he'll think about it.

The epilogue is a year later and Lex is stressing about calling because he heard about the accident at Haly's circus (Damian made the news for being the one who climbed up to help Dick). He wants to help but doesn't want to risk their fragile secret if they're just fostering the kid (he knows she's likely keeping Dick, Claire wants to be a mom even more than she wants to be Nightwing).

THEN, I have an actual happily ever after. But to get there, I have more stories, and one-shots, in that AU! There's one I really want to write about Claire wanting to try getting pregnant again (all of the Robins - and Cass - get adopted too, at much different ages, Bruce did not sign up for this many kids but Claire wants a huge family and he complains but loves it).

It starts with a whole story about the three of them working through trauma and unhealthy relationship habits and past hurts that need resolving to be a healthy poly throuple. Bruce is ahead of the curve, dealing with his history of sexual assault and seperating his trauma from his asexuality (and trying sex with his wife for the first time). Claire loves Lex but is still hurt (from being pregnant while Lex marries Helen) and Lex is hurt too over missing the twins' first years and struggles with jealousy of being secondary but doesn't want to be primary either. Eventually decides to sacrifice some ambitions to be the faithful lover and 'uncle' he needs to be.

Then, I have a self-indulgent cross-over between my AU and a normal Smallville AU in order to showcase how beautiful and happy and nothing hurts anymore my AU becomes. There are babies and a thriving poly-ship where the Ace character isn't 'fixed', SV!Lex freaks out, and HEALTHY FATHER FIGURES protect their family while I showcase my obsession with the glaring missed opportunities in naming Kryptonian heroes.

But instead I'm on page 65 of an Earth-3 smutty fic that is full of venom, drowning a love story that showed up out of no where. It relies heavily on knowledge of my personal-hobby-writing-Mary-Sue-self-insert so I can't even publish it to feel accomplished.

My brain is just too full of shit to write drama (it makes me hurt) or love (it just gets shit on by my plot because of my brain).

WHY?!?

[jinxofthedesert]

Hi there!!! It is the same anon that requested some fic recs ☺ Thank you so much! I may give them a read! They look very interesting! But tbh I'm looking for fics that deal with some more in-depth approach to the twins' psychology and character (I don't mind the romance. In fact, I think it's a really interesting plus to the story when handled well).

(Below this is the rest of the messages, put together. Farther down, below the line, are my responses)  

 I’ve usually seen that the twins are portrayed as soft, loving and caring guys with their partners without real motives for such drastic change of dynamics in their twisted personalities. I mean, the usual Valeska centered fic goes like this: they meet the OC in Arkham or during their childhood in the circus and for some reason they reunite in the present, and then it is just the twins somehow falling for them, changing their whole way of being and only wanting to bang the OC the whole time (without taking into account the lack of the OC's inner conflict about loving such twisted men, because these OCs usually are "sane" and good people that somehow are dragged into the twins' world and for some reason they just fall in love with them without questioning it). But for me the least realistic thing about these fics is that the twins become super nice guys all of a sudden. I mean of course there can be character develoment and growth (up to a certain point), but I haven't really found a story that contains such deep explanation. Let's face it, they're still psychos no matter what, even if they have a partner.  In the last season we get a glimpse of how Jeremiah treats Ecco, someone that he used to appreciate and care for deeply, and she still meant little to him. So it doesn't add up to me when the twins are magically turned into these super sweet caring guys while their twisted, evil and manipulative side is completely ignored. I am not saying they can't love, I am just saying that they surely have their own twisted perception of what love is 🤔 Sorry for my rambling, damn, it took soooooo many comments hahaha!!! OMG, Sorry!😂😂 I had a LOT to say 😂😂😂 But I just find these characters very interesting and I would love to read a story with a more realistic approach to the construction of their personalities (and their twisted way of loving too!). Let me know, please, if you happen to know about some fics/authors 😘 thanks again! 

- - - - - - - - -  Hi again, anon! I’m sorry my list of content in the previous ask wasn’t exactly what you were looking/hoping for. As of right now, besides the ones I sent you that may delve a little bit below the surface, I can’t think of a true ‘character study’ type story that I have read so far. But, again, I usually stay in the area of romance so I wouldn’t be surprised if there are such fics out there under a different genre.

I’ll be quite honest, it’s been a very long time since I’ve read any oc/(input character here), including ones with the twins. Normally, I forget they exist until someone brings it up or I stumble across one on Tumblr accidentally. I do agree, the twins suddenly changing for an OC (or anyone) can be a bit unrealistic but from my years of reading and writing, creating stories with such things is a bit of ‘wish fulfillment’ which, to be honest, isn’t a bad thing. Sometimes a reader just needs content that is kind of good-feeling type fic (though not in a sense of how murderous the twins can be but in them getting some kind of positivity in their lives, whether it be through an OC or another character in the universe). When I wrote Oc’s at the beginning, it was either wish fulfillment for me or simply just wanting these characters I adored to finally have some kind of happy ending which they probably did not deserve, at all. 

A reason you might not find such content is also because, character studies are hard. Especially if you don’t have a complete picture of the character. With the twins, a lot is just coming up with stuff, imaging their past and how it still affects them, even if, on the upper layer we’re shown, doesn’t portray those scars left behind. 

With Oc’s, they can usually be pretty hit or miss. It’s not like you’re taking an already known character with known flaws and putting them in your story. Those characters have a foundation already built. For an Oc, the writer has to literally make someone from the ground up, which is equally as hard without making them seem too whiny, too mary-sue like, or just too problematic. This can leave a lot to be desired which can create something unrealistic as well. That’s why I usually only look for content centered around characters from the show, instead of Oc’s; like with Bruce and the twins because canon-wise there is already something there (depending on how you look at it and write it). 

In regard to Ecco: firstly, I think it’s arguable what type of relationship she even has with Jeremiah when we first are introduced to them. We’re shown some concern on his end when she’s clearly been hypnotized but this can be seen as a boss concerned for an employee, an employee who he’s probably had for awhile now and is one of the very rare few who he trusts to an extent. However, we just don’t know much of anything about their relationship or past together. She might have hardly seen him, only contacting him through phone calls and text messages; she may have only brought him supplies through the maze and never was in his inner personal areas. This treatment is all possible given how Jeremiah is quite literally a paranoid mess before the spray, no matter how well put-together he appears. And, if we’re to compare this to his eventual obsession with Bruce Wayne, we can take a guess that Jeremiah and Ecco probably didn’t get very deep with this connection they had. Mainly because with just a few compliments, Jeremiah is invested in Bruce, something we don’t see with Ecco before or after the spray. So we have Bruce enter the picture (someone who has run into his twin on multiple occasions, a fact Jeremiah must know to some extent with his paranoia probably leading him to constantly check newspapers and the news for info on Jerome) and, if you look at things from Jeremiah’s perspective, besides complimenting him, Bruce looks at him and only sees Jeremiah. And this would be baffling to Jeremiah if he knows the affect Jerome has had on Bruce, for him to look at Jeremiah and not see his twin after everything would be just as big a compliment as anything because it’s differentiating him from his twin. Someone who has probably feared being compared to his brother, for people to look at him and only see Jerome (such as what occurs with Jim and Harvey only hours prior). Because of this, when compared to Ecco, we can deduce that either their conversations never went in such a direction, or she hardly had the extended physical contact to ever bring up Jerome or compare or compliment. If so, it’s possible with how Jeremiah is that something similar could have happened with Ecco. And this eventually leads into the spray where his only true attachment is not Ecco but with Bruce, especially, after his initial spray, Jeremiah’s hatred for Jerome is far worse than it had been before, making Bruce’s assessment of Jeremiah simply being himself and not his brother, far more endearing as well. So, in comparison to Bruce, Ecco means absolutely nothing to him, a means to an end. 

I’ll admit, reading content where the twins are somehow in a relationship (with an oc or canon character) while still being rather insane, are quite interesting. However, for stuff like that to work in a compelling and ‘actual’ way, characters like that have to be bent because these characters logistically working in that kind of environment may never be realistic anyways. This can be worked around of course, but it takes so much time and effort; even now, as I write my stories for Gotham, I’m still trying to work around how to make these ships work for the twins because they’re stubborn and although they have obsessions they, at their cores are not good people and while they may try, seriously try to better themselves, there will always be slip-ups.

I do agree, they can love but it would always be twisted in some way or another (look no further than Jeremiah with Bruce). They’re also a lot of fun to take apart and analyze or try and come up with a type of background that works with all the hints we’ve been given. Background-wise, the twins are really something a writer can make their own which is an interesting concept.

This turned more so into a long ramble of writing and Ocs and lots of Gotham lol but anyways, I wish I could give you a story to fit your needs. I quite hate when I have an itch for certain fics and I either can’t find them or the number of fics is so daunting that I don’t dare even try. I would recommend just going through them, possibly looking for complete content first, or ones with high hits or kudos (depending on the site you’re searching on) because I don’t have any at the moment I can suggest. 

(Honestly the ideas for the twins never stop coming lol, perks of their backgrounds and everything else being so hazy.)

I hope some of this message was at least interesting lol and I do wish you luck in finding good twin content that delves into their character or, maybe you’ll get lucky and someone will publish something like that soon! Either way, I hope you find something 😘

[nerdsideofthemedia]

Should the term “Mary Sue” be retired?

The original. 

I didn’t have any intention of posting my non-RWBY, non-MHA blog posts here, but here’s this one seems to be becoming important with the rise of the claims that Arya Stark is a Mary Sue. So here it goes:

In my walks through Dan Olson’s twitter, I came across this:

Which got me thinking: is the term “Mary Sue” completely pointless?

Before I wonder about this question, let’s take a quick journey through time. In the 70s, Paula Smith noticed a character pattern among the Star Trek fanfic and created a parody to point this out, “A Trekkies’s Tale”, whose protagonist was called Mary Sue. During the following years, the “Mary Sue” wasn’t necessarily considered as something bad, instead it was considered as a phase every writer will go through as it was intimately associated with self-inserts and was only applied to fan-fictions1;2.

In recent years, the term has left the fanfic and began being applied to original fiction too, losing its meaning along the way and gaining a pretty negative connotation. In fact, nowadays, “Mary Sue” is such an extremely subjective term that even TV Tropes admits:

“TV Tropes doesn’t get to set what the term means, the best we can do is capture the way it is used.” 1

Hell, I’ve even come across with this subjectivity, as once I called Orihime from Bleach a Mary Sue, on youtube, and one person defended my use of it by explaining she was liked by everyone, which wasn’t the reason I considered a Mary Sue to begin with and consider that justification to be pretty dumb.

Why is being liked by everyone not a good parameter?

Have you ever read/watched a shonen? Most of the good guys are on good terms. Even when there is some animosity between a main character and another one, it’s usually because of the other, like Vegeta from Dragon Ball Z, who dislikes Goku because he’s better than him, not because of anything egregious the latter did. In “My Hero Academia”, Bakugo hated Midoriya mostly because of pride and arrogance (they are now on good terms).  Yes, the Avengers may have not loved each other from the get-go, but, by the end of the film, they were ready to live happily ever after. And when the sequels even stop (they never will), they will end up being on good terms.

Another definition of what is a “Mary Sue” is it’s a character that is overpowered/great set of skills + tragic backstory, (sometimes even without the latter). So let’s take a look at:

Superman: an alien whose planet was destroyed, adopted by 2 humans, and has a set of skills that would make Goku turn… Well, he would probably just find it cool, but Vegeta’s head would explode for sure as he threw a temper tantrum. His powers include flying, super speed and strength (to the point of almost completely invulnerability), X-ray and heat vision.

Bruce Wayne: a poor (not literally) orphan who was raised by his butler and whose riches go beyond Taylor Swift’s wildest dreams, let alone poor (far more literal) little us. Thanks to it, he has access to technology that has little to no limitations, yet his money never ends.

Goku: an alien whose planet was destroyed, adopted by an old man who was killed by him in giant monkey-form. Not only he can fly, he is particularly powerful even for his people even though he’s a low-level specimen according to the planet’s hierarchic structure.

Ichigo: a guy who turns out to be part-Hollow, part-Shinigami, part-Vizard, part-who-the-hell-even-cares-anymore, even though some of them are pretty rare.

Harry Potter: an orphan raised by his aunt and her family, who all treat him badly, finds out he’s a wizard and finds out his parents have left him a mountain of gold (literally). Everyone either admires him or feels jealous as he is famous for “defeating” a particularly powerful wizard as a baby, without any damages besides a scar. He’s also part of a prophecy.

What about those self-inserts?

I guess we could still use the term as just a self-insert, but considering that most of the time we don’t know the writers, then we can only know their self-insertion if they tell us.

It also doesn’t justify its negative connotation. Writers are people, I presume, which means they have flaws. So why is a character based on oneself bad? Provided the writers are realistic and self-aware, those should be some of the most realistic characters. Now, I know there’s a trap in here, which is the tendency of favoring ourselves and make us just a bit (or a lot) more special than we actually are, but 1) this doesn’t necessarily happen to every self-insert; 2) that can happen whenever writers begin to favor a character for whatever reason, even if it wasn’t a self-insert, leading it to become more and more special or less flawed.

They’re the personification of perfection.

OK, except perfection seems to be kind of subjective, since what I like isn’t the same as everyone else’s. I mean I may like active characters and some may like passive characters. You may think perfection is pizza without pineapple, while I say “you are objectively wrong”.

Jokes asides, being different human beings, usually we end up writing “perfect” characters with our definition of it, which may not correspond to someone else’s.

For example, Bella Swan is called “Mary Sue” a lot for being perfect, but she’s deeply flawed. She’s co-dependent and suicidal. Edward Cullen is the one “Gary Stu” that actually stuck, yet he’s manipulative and a stalker. Yet, there is truth to the claim they are perfect, not to me, but to Stephanie Meyers as they are both idealizations to her, regardless of our opinions of them.

I suppose a character can be drop dead gorgeous, have all sorts of skills and being loved by everyone, but, eventually, he/she will make something that many will consider to be wrong. If that doesn’t happen, then there’s probability not a good conflict, which reveals that, maybe, the problem is in the story itself, not necessarily in the character.

Speaking of subjectivity in flaws and virtues…

“So why did you used to call Orihime a Mary Sue?”

Well, because I thought her flaws were inconsequential with Bleach begging me to sympathize with her for awful reasons and smart characters being really stupid, meaning causing unnecessary plot-hole or plot-contrivance for her. The few most glaring examples I recall (and I’ve read/watched Bleach at least half a century ago, so it’s possible there are a few lapses in my memory) being:

Her almost kissing Ichigo while he was unconscious. That scene is framed as if I am supposed to sympathize with her, instead of what it actually is: creepy as hell and also falls under almost sexual assault in many countries.

Her having an obsession for Ichigo to the point of only thanking him for coming for her in her mind, even though Rukia, Chad, Uryu and Renji were also there to save her. This again is framed as I’m supposed to empathize with her, instead of thinking she’s being narrow-minded and has an unhealthy obsession with Ichigo.

About others acting stupid: Uryu takes her to where Ichigo and Ulquiorra are fighting even though where they were before, Ichigo was losing cause he was holding back to avoid hurting her. Yes, the other place was bigger, but their powers were huge and Uryu taking Orihime should have been a stupid idea (and he’s supposed to be smart).

Not to mention, of course, she resurrects Ichigo by crying and yelling his name which was also major bullshit.

And yes, it’s time to talk about the gender-thing and to admit to my own prejudices despite being a woman, because Orihime isn’t the only character I know who has her flaws not being acknowledged or being perceived as good. Many male characters have all of those yet, I still don’t call them “Gary Stu” or any other male equivalent.

Sun Wukong from RWBY has pretty much all the same problems as Orihime: he stalks Blake for months yet faces no actual consequences. And his actions were framed in the show as “needed”, even though they weren’t since the entire Menagerie arc could be written without him with only minor changes. Creepy actions being framed as right and sympathetic – check.

He also abandons his team several times, which, again, was inconsequential (even if he confesses to being an awful leader in V6) and no way in hell a combat school would interrupt classes for an entire year. He’s completely oblivious of the Faunus struggle, though he’s a Faunus and goes to school in one of the most racist territories. And Blake goes from super paranoid to so relaxed she doesn’t even believe him when he says he saw a WF member wearing a mask for no apparent reason. If I had to guess it’s because if she kept being super paranoid, it would stand to reason she would be the one noticing Ilia spying all by herself, rendering him almost useless and without interrupting her talk to Ghira, which would have made Sun completely pointless. At some point, Orihime became all about Ichigo, Sun was always all about Blake (until V6).

Like I said, I have criticized Sun for being badly written, unnecessary and the contrivances his presence demanded, but I have never ever called a “Gary Stu”. Looking back, I think it’s a combination of a few reason:

I know “Mary Sue” is a term too subjective to be used without an explanation afterwards;

We just don’t tend to hold the same standards for male characters;

Even when we use them for male characters, it almost never sticks.

And I know I’m not the only one doing this.

Once, I came across an article that accused several characters of being a “Mary Sue”, including Orihime, but because she’s too perfect (are you sure about that?) and Sailor Moon, yet claimed Goku wasn’t one.  It’s particularly funny, because Sailor Moon is written to be more flawed than Goku (even if I much higher tolerance for Dragon Ball and DBZ to Sailor Moon).

Goku is an absent father and husband, yet his family never really holds that against him. His wife may complain about it a few times during the anime, but there’s no real strife between them and Gohan never holds it against him either. He gives Cell a senzu bean so that he and Gohan can have a fair fight, even though the entire world is at stake. It still is mostly inconsequential, until Gohan’s arrogance gets in the way.

Meanwhile, Sailor Moon is stupid, coward and petty many times, and it’s clear the writers knew it because they acknowledge those flaws within the show. She is mocked because of them, and her lack of resilience even leads to the death of one of the Sailors in a season finale, if I remember correctly (admittedly, I watched it 5 centuries ago, so I might be wrong). Yes, I know they come back from the death.

This is not an argument that Goku should be called a “Mary Sue/Gary Stu”, rather that the term is heavily gendered. It’s much more applied to female characters and even when used for a male one, it almost never sticks. Even in the example I gave, Edward Cullen, which was successfully labeled as “Gary Stu”, still feels like it was gendered-motivated. Not because of his own, obviously, but for the target audience’s: the majority girls and women. So there we notice another double-standard: the sex of the target audience also affects the claims to “Sueness”.

Ultimately, I have to agree with Dan, with the term “Mary Sue” being too subjective to actually have any validity and is deeply rooted in sexism. Explaining why a character doesn’t work for us  and why we think they’re badly written is far more productive. Let’s keep in mind, we aren’t supposed to like every character writers make, even the ones who are meant to be likable and relatable.

Note: Yes, I watched Overly Sarcastic Productions’ video on the subject. While I like Red’s take, I’d say almost no character in original fiction fits the mold. That in itself wouldn’t be the problem, but the fact that it will remain extremely subjective, I still find the term to be counter-productive, heavily gendered and it needs to die.

1 – https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue

2 – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue

[chopperpirate]

MCU Retrospective

I've decided to, in honor of Avengers Endgame, write about my thoughts on the MCU as a whole. Well, obviously I love it, but am cautiously optimistic about its future. It's easily one of my favorite film franchises, and though I don't think it ever really reaches the highs of The Dark Knight, it's better than any other Superhero related thing in the realm of Live-Action film, with the only things like Logan and The Dark Knight surpassing it in my heart. I still think DC animated films can sometimes be better, but it shouldn't be a competition.

I've been seeing people participating in this "One Marvelous Scene" thing lately, so I'll do that as well after ranking every MCU film I've seen from best to worst. I won't bore you with too much writing, though because I know I'll get flack, I'll try to justify my top and bottom 5 with some comments. With that said, here's Chopperpirate Mun's MCU film ranking!

Guardians of the Galaxy  Vol. 2 - Anyone who knows me knows how much I love things that value the connections between ragtag "nakama" who aren't related by blood, but were brought together by circumstance and are now the closest thing each member has to family. Not to mention that this film has emotional payoffs for Nebula and Gamora's heartfelt rivalry, Rocket's tsundere hangups, and Peter's heritage that I'd say are all easily the most emotional resonant things out of the MCU. The comedy in the film is probably only rivaled by Thor: Ragnarok. My two personal favorite jokes being the Mary Poppins bit, and Drax shouting "MANTIS! LOOK OUT!" mere seconds after Mantis was already hit and knocked unconscious.

The highlight for comedy is easily Drax, but his speech to Mantis about why her perceived ugliness is a good thing because if someone loves you despite your ugliness, they love you for who you are, really might be one of my favorite moments in the film. Same with Yondu's speech to Rocket about how they're the same. Believe it or not, I cried more during Yondu's death than I did for Tony Stark's in Endgame. I can't really tell you why. Something about his last line just reminded me of Whitebeard from One Piece.

Yondu's death scene aside, my favorite scene in the film is easily when he, Groot, and Rocket are slaughtering the traitor Ravengers to the tune of "Come a Little Bit Closer."

On that note, the villains of this film are some of the best. They aren't bland, generic evil points of contention for the film to have a climax! Taser Face is hilarious, The Sovereign are hilariously arrogant and I find the fact that they only engage in combat through arcade simulations to be perfect for their personalities, and Ego might be the best Marvel Villain besides Loki up until that point in the MCU. The reveal that he killed Meredith was shocking, and might very well be the best "Wham Line" in the MCU to this date. His death scene showed a lot of depth to Peter, and like a good villain, he had a lot of parallels and contrasts to the protagonist instead of just having a clone of their abilities for the sake of a final boss fight.

The Winter Soldier - Captain America at his finest. Bucky was awesome, Black Widow was finally given a lot of vulnerabilities and depth as she bonded with Steve, Falcon was alright, HYDRA as a collective is an amazing source of paranoia fuel, and this movie might have the best action out of any MCU film, or at least my personal favorite brand of action. Instead of CG magic and shit, we get to see visceral knife fights, punches, kicks, and close-quarters martial arts. It's surprisingly brutal for a PG-13 film. I recall one point where Bucky kicks a SHIELD agent into a helicopter propeller.

As for my favorite scene in this film, I'd have to say it's the Elevator sequence. The build up was perfectly suspenseful, and the payoff of the line "Before we get started, does anyone want to get off?" felt badass and perfect for the character of Captain America, who, instead of being snide or arrogant, shows that he's ready to fight, while willing to let his enemies back out if they so choose.

This film might also be Nick Fury's finest. I was very disappointed that Captain Marvel didn't enhance the character more than this film did, but oh well. The way Fury communicated words with Steve while showing him what he really meant through writing was clever while also perfectly exemplifying his character. Fury is very secretive, never showing vulnerability or letting himself get attached to others, yet we can tell from his actions and concerns that he is a good person, even if he isn't a nice person. The way he says one meaningless thing while displaying another more pressing thought really shows that the Russos understood the character.

Infinity War - The Empire Strikes Back of the MCU. Thanos is an amazing villain protagonist, and arguably the only character with a full arc in this film, Gamora is probably at her most interesting here, and a lot of the interactions between characters who never got to interact before this film are some of my favorites. I'm especially fond of the chemistry between Doctor Strange and Tony Stark.

Despite how dark and serious this film is, it understands how to keep up dramatic tension while never losing its sense of humor. The same film with Vision dying willingly and pointlessly at the hands of his lover is the film with lines like "Why is Gamora" and "I am Steve Rogers." It's probably the most perfect film in the MCU in terms of story structure and emotional stakes. It's just lower than the ot hers because it lacks the personal love from me that the above films had.

Avengers: Endgame - Now that I've had time to stew on it, this film isn't as good as Infinity War, but it's still great. To clarify, Infinity War was a better structured film and a more entertaining one for the most part. I'd say the first two acts of Endgame were somewhat weak by comparison, but the final 1/3 was so perfect that it almost tempted me to rank it above Infinity War, even if Captain Marvel's presence ruins a lot of things.

I want to remain positive for the most part here, so I won't talk about too many of my gripes, but because I know I'll get asked why I think Captain Marvel ruins the stakes, let me explain. In the MCU, Captain Marvel can canonically move at Lightspeed, and probably faster too. So... when she got the Infinity Gauntlet in the final act's little "Hot Potato" portion, why didn't she just fly to another galaxy and hide the gauntlet away with some trusted civilization, come back to help defeat Thanos' army, then bring the gauntlet back to return the stones to their timelines? Remember, because of this plot hole of MCU Carol Danvers being so overpowered and fast, yet not doing anything to help, Tony Stark is dead. � We know the meta reason is because RDJ and most of the Phase 1 actors are done, but you guys can now totally blame Captain Marvel for it In-Universe.

Positives though! This film made me genuinely love Nebula. She fits so well with The Avengers (arguably better than with the GotG), and the small details of her pity and attachment to Thanos during his early death adds a lot of pathos to her character. Thor's "Big Lebowski" phase was hilarious, Tony and Thor getting closure with their dad/mom respectively was sweet, and the final battle was one of the greatest spectacles to behold. I don't know if it's controversial or not, but I personally loved that Captain America got his happy ending (even if it creates a huge plot hole with this movie's time travel rules). It just lacked the oomph of Infinity War.

Thor Ragnarok - This film saved Thor, made him entertaining and interesting, and gave us yet another great villain in the form of The Grandmaster! It has a similar issue, villain-wise, in my opinion, to Black Panther, in that the secondary villain is far more entertaining than the main villain. Great comedy, Loki's redemption is emotionally fulfilling, and Korg is my MCU waifu. My only issue is that Hela is kind of boring, and the stuff on Sakaar is far more engaging than the "important" plot.

Guardians of the Galaxy The Avengers Spider-Man: Homecoming Iron Man Doctor Strange Captain America: Civil War Iron Man 3 Ant-Man Ant-Man and the Wasp Captain America: The First Avenger Iron Man 2 Black Panther - Very overrated. T'Challa is far less interesting here than he was in Civil War, Wakanda is far better in Infinity War... Really, it's not a "bad" movie. It's just not that special. It's more comparable to the Phase 1 films between Iron Man and Avengers than it is to, say, Wolverine Origins. Glad I saw it. Wouldn't see it again. Didn't care of Killmonger either. Sue me.

Avengers: Age of Ultron - This gets... better on rewatch, but it still sucks. It's a garbage standalone movie, but if you look at it as an in-between film that's setting up things for the Thanos arc, it's actually not so bad. Could've used more scenes like the "Trying to lift Mjolnir," or "chilling at Hawkeye's house" scenes. Just The Avengers hanging out and interacting in low-stakes environments. Instead we get empty, loud, almost Michael Bay-esque action scenes.

Thor: The Dark World - On rewatch, it was surprisingly more entertaining than Thor 1 in a lot of ways. Mostly involving Loki. The human characters, especially Jane and her friend, are horribly boring, and I think we should be thankful that Natalie Portman left the MCU out of frustration for her character being an empty love-interest! She made the right call. Thor isn't really interesting yet, but at least the death of his mother gives him and Loki some legitimate character arcs.

Thor - Eh... it's just kinda bland. Not much to comment on. Loki isn't really fun yet, the human characters are boring, and Thor is probably the least interesting Phase One Avenger aside from Edward Norton's Bruce Banner. It has its moments, but on my most recent MCU rewatch, we were most bored with this one.

Captain Marvel - The most insulting installment of the MCU. Captain Marvel insults people for having those evil Y chromosomes. It's the story of a strong, brave, powerful, beautiful, flawless, overpowered woman who just wants to... umm... be an Air Force Pilot, I guess. She's apparently never met a supportive male in her whole 30+ years of living, because all of her memories are of cartoonish archetypes of men with 1940s values telling her that she can't become a pilot. After all "You know why it's called the cockpit, right?" Ugh...

Not only is the feminist message forced, but it's one of those negative feminist messages that I hate so much. Instead of preaching equality between the two genders, women being just as good as men, it preaches that women are amazing, brave, beautiful, powerful creatures and men are pathetic morons who underestimate women at all times. There's even a scene where her father is yelling at her for crashing a Go-Kart in pure anger and disdain instead of, I dunno... calling a doctor and worrying about his injured child? This movie is... ugh...

Carol herself is either boring and unremarkable or irritatingly condescending depending on the scene's writer. If I recall there were like... 4 or 5 different writers and it really shows. But anyway, she's annoying. She constantly "Womansplains" things to Nick Fury, and her tone is just so smug that it makes me want to slap her. Listen to the way she says "I'm here to stop the shapeshifters that are infiltrating your planet. You don't have any idea what's going on, do you?" It's so demeaning to have Nick Fury, the coolest character whose presence is so demanding and badass that even god-tiers like Thor and a war veteran like Cap shut up and listen when he speaks, be talked to by an unproven character just so Kevin Feige can get some feminist brownie points.

This carries into Endgame where she basically calls Rocket "furrball" and retorts his complaint by harshly explaining why she's not around. In response to this, Rocket, who is characterized in the first film by getting so angry at being called names for his oddities that he almost attempted to murder Drax for it in the bar, simply nods, lowers his head, and says "that's a good point" in a defeated tone. WOW! YOU GO GIRL! CAPTAIN MARVE IS SO TOUGH THAT SHE CAN TALK DOWN TO NICK FURY AND ROCKET AND THEY KNOW BETTER THAN TO COMPLAIN! WOOOOW!

Speaking of feminism, the movie skims over the whole "Air Force discrimination" subplot within under a minute, so we can't really connect to that. As such, one would expect the fact that she's "the most powerful hero in the MCU" to be the big feminist selling point, but she didn't work for that power at all. She got it through sheer coincidence by standing too close to the Tesseract powered engine before it exploded. As such, I suppose the moral is, "Girls! If you wanna be a strong, brave hero, go stand next to an exploding engine!" If so, I caution all viewers to not do that.

Nick Fury is mostly okay in this movie, but he feels underutilized. The retcon of his eye being scratched out by Goose is embarrassing and infuriating. It makes the line from Winter Soldier "Last time I trusted someone, I lost an eye," meaningless and if you were to count this movie as non-canon because of it, I'd be right there with you. He just keeps getting demeaned and treated as a joke, and strangely, the eye retcon isn't even the worst part. I groaned even harder when Carol's friend's daughter says she might build a space ship some day, Fury doesn't know. And Carol replies by saying "You're right, he doesn't know." Pushing the feminist message by knocking Fury down a peg instead of by preaching equality. :\ It wasn't like he said anything misogynistic throughout this film, so I have no idea why he's often the film's punching bag.

Oh, and just a side-note. You wanna know something hilarious? That friend's daughter shows Carol some photos of them together from six years ago. Literally the same actress. Literally the same age in the photo. This child hasn't aged a day in 6 years, so I welcome you to reply with some crack theories so that we can call the writers geniuses instead of incompetence? Is the kid a watcher? A time lord?

Incredible Hulk - Boring, boring, boring. Edward Norton was always a terrible Bruce Banner, the plot is as generic a hulk story as you can imagine, and the character of "Bruce Banner" is almost nonexistent aside from turning into The Hulk when stressed. This Bruce Banner is a handsome, tall, athletic martial artist. If I had to praise it anywhere, the fight between Hulk and Abomination toward the end is actually pretty decent, but aside from that, this film is an embarrassment. It's very telling that the MCU and all its executives swept this one under the rug. It's difficult to find in your Best Buy's "Marvel Studios" section.

There. Proceed to insult my opinions. :D