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turnstileskyline · 1 year ago

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The Oral History of Take This To Your Grave – transcription under the cut

The pages that are just photographs, I haven't included. This post is already long enough.

Things that happened in 2003: Arnold Schwarzenegger became governor of California. Teen Vogue published its first issue. The world lost Johnny Cash. Johnny Depp appeared as Captain Jack Sparrow for the first time. A third Lord of the Rings movie arrived. Patrick Stump, Pete Wentz, Joe Trohman, and Andy Hurley released Take This To Your Grave.

"About 21 years ago or so, as I was applying to colleges I would ultimately never go to, Fall Out Boy began as a little pop-punk side project of what we assumed was Pete's more serious band, Arma Angelus," Patrick wrote in a May 2023 social media post.

"We were sloppy and couldn't solidify a lineup, but the three of us (Pete, Joe, and I) were having way too much fun to give up on it."

"We were really rough around the edges. As an example of how rough, one of my favorite teachers pulled me aside after hearing the recording that would eventually become Evening Out With Your Girlfriend and tactfully said, 'What do you think your best instrument is, Patrick? Drums. It's drums. Probably not singing, Patrick.'"

"We went into Smart Studios with the Sean O'Keefe... So, there we were, 3/5 of a band with a singer who'd only been singing a year, no drummer, and one out of two guitarists. But we had the opportunity to record with Sean at Butch Vig's legendary studio.

"Eight or so months later, Fueled by Ramen would give us a contract to record the remaining songs. We'd sleep on floors, eat nothing but peanut butter and jelly, live in a van for the next three years, and somehow despite that, eventually play with Elton John and Taylor Swift and Jay-Z and for President Obama and the NFC championship, and all these other wildly unpredictable things. But none of that would ever come close to happening if Andy hadn't made it to the session and Joe hadn't dragged us kicking and screaming into being a band."

Two decades after its release, Take This To Your Grave sits comfortable in the Top 10 of Rolling Stone's 50 Greatest Pop-Punk Albums, edging out landmark records from Buzzcocks, Generation X, Green Day, The Offspring, Blink-182, and The Ramones.

It even ranked higher than Through Being Cool by Saves The Day and Jersey's Best Dancers from Lifetime, two records the guys in Fall Out Boy particularly revere.

Fall Out Boy's proper full-length debut on Fueled by Ramen is a deceptively smart, sugar-sweet, raw, energetic masterpiece owing as much to the bass player's pop culture passions, the singers deep love of R&B and soul, and their shared history in the hardcore scene as any pioneering punk band. Fall Out Boy's creative and commercial heights were still ahead, but Take This To Your Grave kicked it off, a harbinger for the enduring songwriting partnership between Patrick Stump and Pete Wentz, the eclectic contributions from Joe Trohman, and the propulsive powerhouse that is Andy Hurley.

The recordings document a special moment when Fall Out Boy was big in "the scene" but a "secret" from the mainstream. The band (and some of their friends) first sat down for an Oral History (which doubled as an Oral History of their origin story) with their old friend Ryan J. Downey, then Senior Editor for Alternative Press, upon the occasion of the album's 10th anniversary. What follows is an updated, sharper, and expanded version of that story, newly re-edited in 2023. As Patrick eloquently said: "Happy 20th birthday, Take This To Your Grave, you weird brilliant lightning strike accident of a record."

– Ryan J. Downey.

A Weird, Brilliant Lightning Strike Of A Record. The Oral History Of Fall Out Boy's Take This To Your Grave.

As told by:

Patrick Stump

Pete Wentz

Joe Trohman

Andy Hurley

Bob McLynn - Crush Music

Sean O'Keefe - Producer/Mixer

John Janick - Fueled By Ramen

Tim McIlrath - Rise Against

Mani Mostofi - Racetraitor

Chris Gutierrez - Arma Angelus

Mark Rose - Spitalfield

Sean Muttaqi - Uprising Records

Rory Felton - The Militia Group

Richard Reines - Drive-Thru Records

"To Feel No More Bitterness Forever" - From Hardcore to Softcore, 1998-2000

PETE WENTZ: When I got into hardcore, it was about discovering the world beyond yourself. There was a culture of trying to be a better person. That was part of what was so alluring about hardcore and punk for me. But for whatever reason, it shifted. Maybe this was just in Chicago, but it became less about the thought process behind it and more about moshing and breakdowns. There was a close-mindedness that felt very reactive.

TIM MCILRITH: I saw First Born many years ago, which was the first time I saw Pete and met him around then. This was '90s hardcore - p.c., vegan, activist kind of hardcore music. Pete was in many of those bands doing that kind of thing, and I was at many of those shows. The hardcore scene in Chicago was pretty small, so everyone kind of knew each other. I knew Andy Hurley as the drummer in Racetraitor. I was in a band called Baxter, so Pete always called me 'Baxter.' I was just 'Baxter' to a lot of those guys.

JOE TROHMAN: I was a young hardcore kid coming to the shows. The same way we all started doing bands. You're a shitty kid who goes to punk and hardcore shows, and you see the other bands playing, and you want to make friends with those guys because you want to play in bands too. Pete and I had a bit of a connection because we're from the same area. I was the youngest dude at most shows. I would see Extinction, Racetraitor, Burn It Down, and all the bands of that era.

WENTZ: My driver's license was suspended then, so Joe drove me everywhere. We listened to either Metalcore like Shai Hulud or pop-punk stuff like Screeching Weasel.

MCILRITH: I was in a band with Pete called Arma Angelus. I was like their fifth or sixth bass player. I wasn't doing anything musically when they hit me up to play bass, so I said, 'Of course.' I liked everyone in the band. We were rehearsing, playing a few shows here and there, with an ever-revolving cast of characters. We recorded a record together at the time. I even sing on that record, believe it or not, they gave me a vocal part. Around that same time, I began meeting with [bassist] Joe [Principe] about starting what would become Rise Against.

CHRIS GUTIERREZ: Wentz played me the Arma Angelus demo in the car. He said he wanted it to be a mix of Despair, Buried Alive, and Damnation A.D. He told me Tim was leaving to start another band - which ended up being Rise Against - and asked if I wanted to play bass.

TROHMAN: Pete asked me to fill in for a tour when I was 15. Pete had to call my dad to convince him to let me go. He did it, too. It was my first tour, in a shitty cargo van, with those dudes. They hazed the shit out of me. It was the best and worst experience. Best overall, worst at the time.

GUTIERREZ: Enthusiasm was starting to wane in Arma Angelus. Our drummer was really into cock-rock. It wasn't an ironic thing. He loved L.A. Guns, Whitesnake, and Hanoi Rocks. It drove Pete nuts because the scene was about Bleeding Through and Throwdown, not cock rock. He was frustrated that things weren't panning out for the band, and of course, there's a ceiling for how big a metalcore band can get, anyway.

MANI MOSTOFI: Pete had honed this tough guy persona, which I think was a defense mechanism. He had some volatile moments in his childhood. Underneath, he was a pretty sensitive and vulnerable person. After playing in every mosh-metal band in the Midwest and listening exclusively to Earth Crisis, Damnation A.D., Chokehold, and stuff like that for a long time, I think Pete wanted to do something fresh. He had gotten into Lifetime, Saves The Day, The Get Up Kids, and bands like that. Pete was at that moment where the softer side of him needed an outlet, and didn't want to hide behind mosh-machismo. I remember him telling me he wanted to start a band that more girls could listen to.

MCILRATH: Pete was talking about starting a pop-punk band. Bands like New Found Glory and Saves The Day were successful then. The whole pop-punk sound was accessible. Pete was just one of those guys destined for bigger things than screaming for mediocre hardcore bands in Chicago. He's a smart guy, a brilliant guy. All the endeavors he had taken on, even in the microcosm of the 1990s Chicago hardcore world, he put a lot of though into it. You could tell that if he were given a bigger receptacle to put that thought into, it could become something huge. He was always talented: lyrics, imagery, that whole thing. He was ahead of the curve. We were in this hardcore band from Chicago together, but we were both talking about endeavors beyond it.

TROHMAN: The drummer for Arma Angelus was moving. Pete and I talked about doing something different. It was just Pete and me at first. There was this thuggishness happening in the Chicago hardcore scene at that time that wasn't part of our vibe. It was cool, but it wasn't our thing.

MCILRITH: One day at Arma Angelus practice, Pete asked me, 'Are you going to do that thing with Joe?' I was like, 'Yeah, I think so.' He was like, 'You should do that, dude. Don't let this band hold you back. I'll be doing something else, too. We should be doing other things.' He was really ambitious. It was so amazing to me, too, because Pete was a guy who, at the time, was kind of learning how to play the bass. A guy who didn't really play an instrument will do down in history as one of the more brilliant musicians in Chicago. He had everything else in his corner. He knew how to do everything else. He needed to get some guys behind him because he had the rest covered. He had topics, themes, lyrics, artwork, this whole image he wanted to do, and he was uncompromising. He also tapped into something the rest of us were just waking up to: the advent of the internet. I mean, the internet wasn't new, but higher-speed internet was.

MOSTOFI: Joe was excited to be invited by Pete to do a band. Joe was the youngest in our crew by far, and Pete was the 'coolest' in a Fonzie sort of way. Joe deferred to Pete's judgement for years. But eventually, his whole life centered around bossy big-brother Pete. I think doing The Damned Things was for Joe what Fall Out Boy was for Pete, in a way. It was a way to find his own space within the group of friends. Unsurprisingly, Joe now plays a much more significant role in Fall Out Boy's music.

WENTZ: I wanted to do something easy and escapist. When Joe and I started the band, it was the worst band of all time. I feel like people said, 'Oh, yeah, you started Fall Out Boy to get big.' Dude, there was way more of a chance of every other band getting big in my head than Fall Out Boy. It was a side thing that was fun to do. Racetraitor and Extinction were big bands to me. We wanted to do pop-punk because it would be fun and hilarious. It was definitely on a lark. We weren't good. If it was an attempt at selling out, it was a very poor attempt.

MCILRITH: It was such a thing for people to move from hardcore bands to bands called 'emo' or pop-punk, as those bands were starting to get some radio play and signed to major labels. Everyone thought it was easy, but it's not as easy as that. Most guys we knew who tried it never did anything more successful than their hardcore bands. But Pete did it! And if anyone was going to, it was going to be him. He never did anything half-assed. He ended up playing bass in so many bands in Chicago, even though he could barely play the bass then, because simply putting him in your band meant you'd have a better show. He was just more into it. He knew more about dynamics, about getting a crowd to react to what you're doing than most people. Putting Pete in your band put you up a few notches.

"I'm Writing You A Chorus And Here Is Your Verse" - When Pete met Patrick, early 2001.

MARK ROSE: Patrick Stump played drums in this grindcore band called Grinding Process. They had put out a live split cassette tape.

PATRICK STUMP: My ambition always outweighed my ability or actual place in the world. I was a drummer and played in many bands and tried to finagle my way into better ones but never really managed. I was usually outgunned by the same two guys: this guy Rocky Senesce; I'm not sure if he's playing anymore, but he was amazing. And this other guy, De'Mar Hamilton, who is now in Plain White T's. We'd always go out for the same bands. I felt like I was pretty good, but then those guys just mopped the floor with me. I hadn't been playing music for a few months. I think my girlfriend dumped me. I was feeling down. I wasn't really into pop-punk or emo. I think at the time I was into Rhino Records box sets.

TROHMAN: I was at the Borders in Eden's Plaza in Wilmette, Illinois. My friend Arthur was asking me about Neurosis. Patrick just walked up and started talking to me.

STUMP: I was a bit arrogant and cocky, like a lot of young musicians. Joe was talking kind of loudly and I overheard him say something about Neurosis, and I think I came in kind of snotty, kind of correcting whatever they had said.

TROHMAN: We just started talking about music, and my buddy Arthur got shoved out of the conversation. I told him about the band we were starting. Pete was this local hardcore celebrity, which intrigued Patrick.

STUMP: I had similar conversations with any number of kids my age. This conversation didn't feel crazy special. That's one of the things that's real about [Joe and I meeting], and that's honest about it, that's it's not some 'love at first sight' thing where we started talking about music and 'Holy smokes, we're going to have the best band ever!' I had been in a lot of bands up until then. Hardcore was a couple of years away from me at that point. I was over it, but Pete was in real bands; that was interesting. Now I'm curious and I want to do this thing, or at least see what happens. Joe said they needed a drummer, guitar player, or singer, and I kind of bluffed and said I could do any one of those things for a pop-punk band. I'd had a lot of conversations about starting bands where I meet up with somebody and maybe try to figure out some songs and then we'd never see each other again. There were a lot of false starts and I assumed this would be just another one of those, but it would be fun for this one to be with the guy from Racetraitor and Extinction.

TROHMAN: He gave me the link to his MP3.com page. There were a few songs of him just playing acoustic and singing. He was awesome.

WENTZ: Joe told me we were going to this kid's house who would probably be our drummer but could also sing. He sent me a link to Patrick singing some acoustic thing, but the quality was so horrible it was hard to tell what it was. Patrick answered the door in some wild outfit. He looked like an emo kid but from the Endpoint era - dorky and cool. We went into the basement, and he was like, trying to set up his drums.

TROHMAN: Patrick has said many times that he intended to try out on drums. I was pushing for him to sing after hearing his demos. 'Hey! Sing for us!' I asked him to take out his acoustic guitar. He played songs from Saves The Day's Through Being Cool. I think he sang most of the record to us. We were thrilled. We had never been around someone who could sing like that.

WENTZ: I don't think Patrick thought we were cool at all. We were hanging out, and he started playing acoustic guitar. He started singing, and I realized he could sing any Saves The Day song. I was like, 'Wow, that's the way those bands sound! We should just have you sing.' It had to be serendipity because Patrick drumming and Joe singing is not the same band. I never thought about singing. It wasn't the type of thing I could sing. I knew I'd be playing bass. I didn't think it'd even go beyond a few practices. It didn't seem like the thing I was setting myself up to do for the next several years of my life in any way. I was going to college. It was just a fun getaway from the rest of life kind of thing to do.

STUMP: Andy was the first person we asked to play drums. Joe even brought him up in the Borders conversation. But Andy was too busy. He wasn't really interested, either, because we kind of sucked.

WENTZ: I wanted Hurley in the band, I was closest to him at the time, I had known him for a long time. I identified with him in the way that we were the younger dudes in our larger group. I tried to get him, but he was doing another band at the time, or multiple bands. He was Mani's go-to guy to play drums, always. I had asked him a few times. That should clue people into the fact that we weren't that good.

ANDY HURLEY: I knew Joe as 'Number One Fan.' We called him that because he was a huge fan of a band I was in, Kill The Slavemaster. When Fall Out Boy started, I was going to college full-time. I was in the band Project Rocket and I think The Kill Pill then, too.

MOSTOFI: After they got together the first or second time, Pete played me a recording and said, 'This is going to be big.' They had no songs, no name, no drummer. They could barely play their instruments. But Pete knew, and we believed him because we could see his drive and Patrick's potential. Patrick was prodigy. I imagine the first moment Pete heard him sing was probably like when I heard 15-year-old Andy Hurley play drums.

GUTIERREZ: One day at practice, Pete told me he had met some dudes with whom he was starting a pop-punk band. He said it would sound like a cross between New Found Glory and Lifetime. Then the more Fall Out Boy started to practice, the less active Arma Angelus became.

TROHMAN: We got hooked up with a friend named Ben Rose, who became our original drummer. We would practice in his parents' basement. We eventually wrote some pretty bad songs. I don't even have the demo. I have copies of Arma's demo, but I don't have that one.

MOSTOFI: We all knew that hardcore kids write better pop-punk songs than actual pop-punk kids. It had been proven. An experienced hardcore musician could bring a sense of aggression and urgency to the pop hooks in a way that a band like Yellowcard could never achieve. Pete and I had many conversations about this. He jokingly called it 'Softcore,' but that's precisely what it was. It's what he was going for. Take This To Your Grave sounds like Hot Topic, but it feels like CBGBs.

MCILRITH: Many hardcore guys who transitioned into pop-punk bands dumbed it down musically and lyrically. Fall Out Boy found a way to do it that wasn't dumbed down. They wrote music and lyrics that, if you listened closely, you could tell came from people who grew up into hardcore. Pete seemed to approach the song titles and lyrics the same way he attacked hardcore songs. You could see his signature on all of that.

STUMP: We all had very different ideas of what it should sound like. I signed up for Kid Dynamite, Strike Anywhere, or Dillinger Four. Pete was very into Lifetime and Saves The Day. I think both he and Joe were into New Found Glory and Blink-182. I still hadn't heard a lot of stuff. I was arrogant; I was a rock snob. I was over most pop-punk. But then I had this renaissance week where I was like, 'Man, you know what? I really do like The Descendents.' Like, the specific week I met Joe, it just happened to be that I was listening to a lot of Descendents. So, there was a part of me that was tickled by that idea. 'You know what? I'll try a pop-punk band. Why not?'

MOSTOFI: To be clear, they were trying to become a big band. But they did it by elevating radio-friendly pop punk, not debasing themselves for popularity. They were closely studying Drive-Thru Records bands like The Starting Line, who I couldn't stand. But they knew what they were doing. They extracted a few good elements from those bands and combined them with their other influences. Patrick never needed to be auto-tuned. He can sing. Pete never had to contrive this emotional depth. He always had it.

STUMP: The ideas for band names were obnoxious. At some point, Pete and I were arguing over it, and I think our first drummer, Ben Rose, who was in the hardcore band Strength In Numbers, suggested Fall Out Boy. Pete and I were like, 'Well, we don't hate that one. We'll keep it on the list.' But we never voted on a name.

"Fake It Like You Matter" - The Early Shows, 2001

The name Fall Out Boy made their shortlist, but their friends ultimately chose it for them. The line-up at the band's first show was Patrick Stump (sans guitar), Pete Wentz, Joe Trohman, drummer Ben Rose, and guitarist John Flamandan in his only FOB appearance.

STUMP: We didn't have a name at our two or three shows. We were basically booked as 'Pete's new band' as he was the most known of any of us. Pete and I were the artsy two.

TROHMAN: The rest of us had no idea what we were doing onstage.

STUMP: We took ourselves very seriously and completely different ideas on what was 'cool.' Pete at the time was somewhere between maybe Chuck Palahniuk and Charles Bukowski, and kind of New Romantic and Manchester stuff, so he had that in mind. The band names he suggested were long and verbose, somewhat tongue-in-cheek. I was pretty much only into Tom Waits, so I wanted everything to be a reference to Tom Waits. The first show was at DePaul [University] in some cafeteria. The room looked a lot nicer than punk rock shows are supposed to look, like a room where you couldn't jump off the walls. We played with a band called Stillwell. I want to say one of the other bands played Black Sabbath's Black Sabbath in its entirety. We were out of place. We were tossing a few different names around. The singer for Stillwell was in earshot of the conversation so I was like 'Hey, settle this for us,' and told him whatever name it was, which I can't remember. 'What do you think of this name?' He goes, 'It sucks.' And the way he said it, there was this element to it, like, 'You guys probably suck, too, so whatever.' That was our first show. We played first and only had three songs. That was John's only show with us, and I never saw him again. I was just singing without a guitar, and I had never just sung before; that was horrifying. We blazed through those songs.

ROSE: Patrick had this shoulder-length hair. Watching these guys who were known for heavier stuff play pop-punk was strange. Pete was hopping around with the X's on his hands. Spitalfield was similar; we were kids playing another style of music who heard Texas Is The Reason and Get Up Kids and said, 'We have to start a band like this.'

MOSTOFI: The first show was a lot of fun. The musical side wasn't there, but Pete and Patrick's humor and charisma were front and center.

TROHMAN: I remember having a conversation with Mani about stage presence. He was telling me how important it was. Coalesce and The Dillinger Escape Plan would throw mic stands and cabinets. We loved that visual excitement and appeal. Years later, Patrick sang a Fall Out Boy song with Taylor Swift at Giants Stadium. It was such a great show to watch that I was reminded of how wise Mani was to give me that advice back then. Mani was like a mentor for me, honestly. He would always guide me through stuff.

MOSTOFI: Those guys grew up in Chicago, either playing in or seeing Extinction, Racetraitor, Los Crudos, and other bands that liked to talk and talk between songs. Fall Out Boy did that, and it was amazing. Patrick was awkward in a knowing and hilarious way. He'd say something odd, and then Pete would zing him. Or Pete would try to say something too cool, and Patrick would remind him they were nerds. These are very personal memories for me. Millions of people have seen the well-oiled machine, but so few of us saw those guys when they were so carefree.

TROHMAN: We had this goofy, bad first show, but all I can tell you was that I was determined to make this band work, no matter what.

STUMP: I kind of assumed that was the end of that. 'Whatever, on with our lives.' But Joe was very determined. He was going to pick us up for practice and we were going to keep playing shows. He was going to make the band happen whether the rest of us wanted to or not. That's how we got past show number one. John left the band because we only had three songs and he wasn't very interested. In the interim, I filled in on guitar. I didn't consider myself a guitar player. Our second show was a college show in Southern Illinois or something.

MCILRITH: That show was with my other band, The Killing Tree.

STUMP: We showed up late and played before The Killing Tree. There was no one there besides the bands and our friends. I think we had voted on some names. Pete said 'Hey, we're whatever!'; probably something very long. And someone yells out, 'Fuck that, no, you're Fall Out Boy!' Then when The Killing Tree was playing, Tim said, 'I want to thank Fall Out Boy.' Everyone looked up to Tim, so when he forced the name on us, it was fine. I was a diehard Simpsons fan, without question. I go pretty deep on The Simpsons. Joe and I would just rattle off Simpsons quotes. I used to do a lot of Simpsons impressions. Ben was very into Simpsons; he had a whole closet full of Simpsons action figures.

"If Only You Knew I Was Terrified" - The Early Recordings, 2002-2003

Wentz's relationships in the hardcore scene led to Fall Out Boy's first official releases. A convoluted and rarely properly explained chain of events resulted in the Fall Out Boy/Project Rocket split EP and Fall Out Boy's Evening Out with Your Girlfriend. Both were issued by California's Uprising Records, whose discography included Racetraitor's first album and the debut EP by Burn It Down. The band traveled to Wisconsin to record their first proper demo with engineer Jared Logan, drummer for Uprising's 7 Angels 7 Plagues.

TROHMAN: This isn't to be confused with the demo we did in Ben's basement, which was like a tape demo. This was our first real demo.

STUMP: Between booking the demo and recording it, we lost Ben Rose. He was the greatest guy, but it wasn't working out musically. Pete and Joe decided I should play drums on the demo. But Jared is a sick drummer, so he just did it.

TROHMAN: We had gotten this great singer but went through a series of drummers that didn't work out. I had to be the one who kicked Ben out. Not long after, our friend Brett Bunting played with us. I don't think he really wanted to do it, which was a bummer.

STUMP: I showed up to record that demo, feeling pulled into it. I liked hanging out with the guys, but I was a rock snob who didn't really want to be making that type of music. The first few songs were really rough. We were sloppy. We barely practiced. Pete was in Arma Angelus. Joe was the guy determined to make it happen. We couldn't keep a drummer or guitar player, and I could barely play guitar. I didn't really want to be in Fall Out Boy. We had these crappy songs that kind of happened; it didn't feel like anything. Joe did the guitars. I go in to do the vocals, I put on the headphones, and it starts playing and was kind of not bad! It was pretty good, actually. I was shocked. That was the first time I was like, 'Maybe I am supposed to be in this band.' I enjoyed hearing it back.

SEAN MUTTAQI: Wentz and I were pretty tight. He sent me some demos, and while I didn't know it would get as big as it did, I knew it was special. Wentz had a clear vision. Of all the guys from that scene, he was the most singularly focused on taking things to the next level. He was ahead of the game with promotion and the early days of social media.

STUMP: Arma Angelus had been on Eulogy. We talked to them a bit and spoke to Uprising because they had put out Racetraitor. At some point, the demo got to Sean, and he decided to make it half of a split with Andy's band, Project Rocket. We were pretty happy with that.

HURLEY: It was kind of competitive for me at the time. Project Rocket and Fall Out Boy were both doing pop-punk/pop-rock, I met Patrick through the band. I didn't really know him before Fall Out Boy.

TROHMAN: We got this drummer, Mike Pareskuwicz, who had been in a hardcore band from Central Illinois called Subsist.

STUMP: Uprising wanted us to make an album. We thought that was cool, but we only had those three songs that were on the split. We were still figuring ourselves out. One of the times we were recording with Jared in the studio, for the split or the album, this guy T.J. Kunasch was there. He was like, 'Hey, do you guys need a guitarist?' And he joined.

MUTTAQI: I borrowed some money to get them back in the studio. The songwriting was cool on that record, but it was all rushed. The urgency to get something out led to the recording being subpar. Their new drummer looked the part but couldn't really play. They had already tracked the drums before they realized it didn't sound so hot.

STUMP: The recording experience was not fun. We had two days to do an entire album. Mike was an awesome dude, but he lived crazy far away, in Kanakee, Illinois, so the drive to Milwaukee wasn't easy for him. He had to work or something the next day. So, he did everything in one take and left. He played alone, without a click, so it was a ness to figure out. We had to guess where the guitar was supposed to go. None of us liked the songs because we had slapped them together. We thought it all sucked. But I thought, 'Well, at least it'll be cool to have something out.' Then a lot of time went by. Smaller labels were at the mercy of money, and it was crazy expensive to put out a record back then.

MUTTAQI: Our record was being rushed out to help generate some interest, but that interest was building before we could even get the record out. We were beholden to finances while changing distribution partners and dealing with other delays. The buck stops with me, yes, but I didn't have that much control over the scheduling.

WENTZ: It's not what I would consider the first Fall Out Boy record. Hurley isn't on it and he's an integral part of the Fall Out Boy sound. But it is part of the history, the legacy. NASA didn't go right to the moon. They did test flights in the desert. Those are our test flights in the desert. It's not something I'm ashamed of or have weird feelings about.

STUMP: It's kind of embarrassing to me. Evening Out... isn't representative of the band we became. I liked Sean a lot, so it's nothing against him. If anybody wants to check out the band in that era, I think the split EP is a lot cooler. Plus, Andy is on that one.

TROHMAN: T.J. was the guy who showed up to the show without a guitar. He was the guy that could never get it right, but he was in the band for a while because we wanted a second guitar player. He's a nice dude but wasn't great to be in a band with back then. One day he drove unprompted from Racine to Chicago to pick up some gear. I don't know how he got into my parents' house, but the next thing I knew, he was in my bedroom. I didn't like being woken up and kicked him out of the band from bed.

STUMP: Our friend Brian Bennance asked us to do a split 7" with 504 Plan, which was a big band to us. Brian offered to pay for us to record with Sean O'Keefe, which was also a big deal. Mike couldn't get the time off work to record with us. We asked Andy to play on the songs. He agreed to do it, but only if he could make it in time after recording an entire EP with his band, The Kill Pill, in Chicago, on the same day.

MOSTOFI: Andy and I started The Kill Pill shortly after Racetraitor split up, not long after Fall Out Boy had formed. We played a bunch of local shows together. The minute Andy finished tracking drums for our EP in Chicago, he raced to the other studio in Madison.

STUMP: I'm getting ready to record the drums myself, getting levels and checking the drums, pretty much ready to go. And then in walks Andy Hurley. I was a little bummed because I really wanted to play drums that day. But then Andy goes through it all in like two takes and fucking nailed the entire thing. He just knocked it out of the park. All of us were like, 'That's crazy!'

WENTZ: When Andy came in, It just felt different. It was one of those 'a-ha' moments.

STUMP: Sean leaned over to us and said, 'You need to get this guy in the band.'

SEAN O'KEEFE: We had a blast. We pumped It out. We did it fast and to analog tape. People believe it was very Pro Tools oriented, but it really was done to 24-track tape. Patrick sang his ass off.

STUMP: The songs we had were 'Dead On Arrival,' 'Saturday,' and 'Homesick at Space Camp. There are quite a few songs that ended up on Take This To You Grave where I wrote most of the lyrics but Pete titled them.

WENTZ: 'Space Camp' was a reference to the 1986 movie, SpaceCamp, and the idea of space camp. Space camp wasn't something anyone in my area went to. Maybe they did, but it was never an option for me. It seems like the little kid version of meeting Jay-Z. The idea was also: what if you, like Joaquin Phoenix in the movie, took off to outer space and wanted to get home? 'I made it to space and now I'm just homesick and want to hang out with my friends.' In the greater sense, it's about having it all, but it's still not enough. There's a pop culture reference in 'Saturday' that a lot of people miss. 'Pete and I attack the lost Astoria' was a reference to The Goonies, which was filmed in Astoria, Oregon.

HURLEY: I remember hearing those recordings, especially 'Dead on Arrival,' and Patrick's voice and how well written those songs were, especially relative to anything else I had done - I had a feeling that this could do something.

WENTZ: It seemed like it would stall out if we didn't get a solid drummer in the band soon. That was the link that we couldn't nail down. Patrick was always a big musical presence. He thinks and writes rhythmi-cally, and we couldn't get a drummer to do what he wanted or speak his language. Hurley was the first one that could. It's like hearing two drummers talk together when they really get it. It sounds like a foreign language because it's not something I'm keyed into. Patrick needed someone on a similar musical plane. I wasn't there. Joe was younger and was probably headed there.

HURLEY: When Patrick was doing harmonies, it was like Queen. He's such a brilliant dude. I was always in bands that did a record and then broke up. I felt like this was a band that could tour a lot like the hardcore bands we loved, even if we had to have day jobs, too.

"(Four) Tired Boys And A Broken Down Van" - The Early Tours, 2002-2003

STUMP: We booked a tour with Spitalfield, another Chicago band, who had records out, so they were a big deal to us. We replaced T.J. with a guy named Brandon Hamm. He was never officially in the band. He quit when we were practicing 'Saturday.' He goes, 'I don't like that. I don't want to do this anymore.' Pete talked with guitarist Chris Envy from Showoff, who had just broken up. Chris said, 'Yeah, I'll play in your band.' He came to two practices, then quit like two days before the tour. It was only a two-week tour, but Mike couldn't get the time off work from Best Buy, or maybe it was Blockbuster. We had to lose Mike, which was the hardest member change for me. It was unpleasant.

TROHMAN: We had been trying to get Andy to join the band for a while. Even back at that first Borders conversation, we talked about him, but he was too busy at the time.

STUMP: I borrowed one of Joe's guitars and jumped in the fire. We were in this legendarily shitty used van Pete had gotten. It belonged to some flower shop, so it had this ominously worn-out flower decal outside and no windows [except in the front]. Crappy brakes, no A/C, missing the rearview mirror, no seats in the back, only the driver's seat. About 10 minutes into the tour, we hit something. A tire exploded and slingshot into the passenger side mirror, sending glass flying into the van. We pulled over into some weird animal petting zoo. I remember thinking, 'This is a bad omen for this tour.' Spitalfield was awesome, and we became tight with them. Drew Brown, who was later in Weekend Nachos, was out with them, too. But most of the shows were canceled.

WENTZ: We'd end up in a town, and our show was canceled, or we'd have three days off. 'Let's just get on whatever show we can. Whatever, you can pay us in pizza.'

STUMP: We played in a pizza place. We basically blocked the line of people trying to order pizza, maybe a foot away from the shitty tables. Nobody is trying to watch a band. They're just there to eat pizza. And that was perhaps the biggest show we played on that tour. One of the best moments on the Spitalfied tour was in Lincoln, Nebraska. The local opener wasn't even there - they were at the bar across the street and showed up later with two people. Fall Out Boy played for Spitalfield, and Spitalfield played for Fall Out Boy. Even the sound guy had left. It was basically an empty room. It was miserable.

HURLEY: Even though we played a ton of shows in front of just the other bands, it was awesome. I've known Pete forever and always loved being in bands with him. After that tour, it was pretty much agreed that I would be in the band. I wanted to be in the band.

WENTZ: We would play literally any show in those days for free. We played Chain Reaction in Orange County with a bunch of metalcore bands. I want to say Underoath was one of them. I remember a lot of black shirts and crossed arms at those kinds of shows. STUMP: One thing that gets lost in the annals of history is Fall Out Boy, the discarded hardcore band. We played so many hardcore shows! The audiences were cool, but they were just like, 'This is OK, but we'd really rather be moshing right now.' Which was better than many of the receptions we got from pop-punk kids.

MOSTOFI: Pete made sure there was little division between the band and the audience. In hardcore, kids are encouraged to grab the mic. Pete was very conscious about making the crowd feel like friends. I saw them in Austin, Texas, in front of maybe ten kids. But it was very clear all ten of those kids felt like Pete's best friends. And they were, in a way.

MCILRITH: People started to get into social networking. That kind of thing was all new to us, and they were way ahead. They networked with their fans before any of us.

MOSTOFI: Pete shared a lot about his life online and was intimate as hell. It was a new type of scene. Pete extended the band's community as far as fiber optics let him.

ROSE: Pete was extremely driven. Looking back, I wish I had that killer instinct. During that tour; we played a show in Colorado. On the day of the show, we went to Kinko's to make flyers to hand out to college kids. Pete put ‘members of Saves The Day and Screeching Weasel’ on the flyer. He was just like, 'This will get people in.'

WENTZ: We booked a lot of our early shows through hardcore connections, and to some extent, that carries through to what Fall Out Boy shows are like today. If you come to see us play live, we're basically Slayer compared to everyone else when we play these pop radio shows. Some of that carries back to what you must do to avoid being heckled at hardcore shows. You may not like our music, but you will leave here respecting us. Not everyone is going to love you. Not everyone is going to give a shit. But you need to earn a crowd's respect. That was an important way for us to learn that.

MOSTOFI: All those dudes, except Andy, lived in this great apartment with our friend Brett Bunting, who was almost their drummer at one point. The proximity helped them gel.

STUMP: There were a lot of renegade last-minute shows where we'd just call and get added. We somehow ended up on a show with Head Automatica that way.

MCILRITH: At some point early on, they opened for Rise Against in a church basement in Downers Grove. We were doing well then; headlining that place was a big deal. Then Pete's band was coming up right behind us, and you could tell there was a lot of chatter about Fall Out Boy. I remember getting to the show, and there were many people there, many of whom I had never seen in the scene before. A lot of unfamiliar faces. A lot of people that wouldn't have normally found their way to the seedy Fireside Bowl in Chicago. These were young kids, and I was 21 then, so when I say young, I mean really young. Clearly, Fall Out Boy had tapped into something the rest of us had not. People were super excited to see them play and freaked out; there was a lot of enthusiasm at that show. After they finished, their fans bailed. They were dedicated. They wanted to see Fall Out Boy. They didn't necessarily want to see Rise Against play. That was my first clue that, 'Whoa, what Pete told me that day at Arma Angelus rehearsal is coming true. He was right.' Whatever he was doing was working.

"My Insides Are Copper, And I'd Like To Make Them Gold" - The Record Labels Come Calling, 2002

STUMP: The split EP was going to be a three-way split with 504 Plan, August Premier, and us at one point. But then the record just never happened. Brian backed out of putting it out. We asked him if we could do something else with the three songs and he didn't really seem to care. So, we started shopping the three songs as a demo. Pete ended up framing the rejection letters we got from a lot of pop-punk labels. But some were interested.

HURLEY: We wanted to be on Drive-Thru Records so bad. That was the label.

RICHARD REINES: After we started talking to them, I found the demo they had sent us in the office. I played it for my sister. We decided everything together. She liked them but wasn't as crazy about them as I was. We arranged with Pete to see them practice. We had started a new label called Rushmore. Fall Out Boy wasn't the best live band. We weren't thrilled [by the showcase]. But the songs were great. We both had to love a band to sign them, so my sister said, 'If you love them so much, let's sign them to Rushmore, not Drive Thru.'

HURLEY: We did a showcase for Richard and Stephanie Reines. They were just kind of like, 'Yeah, we have this side label thing. We'd be interested in having you on that.' I remember them saying they passed on Saves The Day and wished they would have put out Through Being Cool. But then they [basically] passed on us by offering to put us on Rushmore. We realized we could settle for that, but we knew it wasn't the right thing.

RORY FELTON: Kevin Knight had a website, TheScout, which always featured great new bands. I believe he shared the demo with us. I flew out to Chicago. Joe and Patrick picked me up at the airport. I saw them play at a VFW hall, Patrick drank an entire bottle of hot sauce on a dare at dinner, and then we all went to see the movie The Ring. I slept on the couch in their apartment, the one featured on the cover of Take This To Your Grave. Chad [Pearson], my partner, also flew out to meet with the band.

STUMP: It was a weird time to be a band because it was feast or famine. At first, no one wanted us. Then as soon as one label said, 'Maybe we'll give 'em a shot,' suddenly there's a frenzy of phone calls from record labels. We were getting our shirts printed by Victory Records. One day, we went to pick up shirts, and someone came downstairs and said, 'Um, guys? [Owner] Tony [Brummel] wants to see you.' We were like, 'Did we forget to pay an invoice?' He made us an offer on the spot. We said, 'That's awesome, but we need to think about it.' It was one of those 'now or never' kinds of things. I think we had even left the van running. It was that kind of sudden; we were overwhelmed by it.

HURLEY: They told me Tony said something like, 'You can be with the Nike of the record industry or the Keds of the record industry.'

STUMP: We'd get random calls at the apartment. 'Hey, I'm a manager with so-and-so.' I talked to some boy band manager who said, 'We think you'll be a good fit.'

TROHMAN: The idea of a manager was a ‘big-time' thing. I answered a call one day, and this guy is like, 'I'm the manager for the Butthole Surfers, and I'd really like to work with you guys.' I just said, Yeah, I really like the Butthole Surfers, but I'll have to call you back.' And I do love that band. But I just knew that wasn't the right thing.

STUMP: Not all the archetypes you always read about are true. The label guys aren't all out to get you. Some are total douchebags. But then there are a lot who are sweet and genuine. It's the same thing with managers. I really liked the Militia Group. They told us it was poor form to talk to us without a manager. They recommended Bob McLynn.

FELTON: We knew the guys at Crush from working with Acceptance and The Beautiful Mistake. We thought they'd be great for Fall Out Boy, so we sent the music to their team.

STUMP: They said Crush was their favorite management company and gave us their number. Crush's biggest band at the time was American Hi-Fi. Jonathan Daniels, the guy who started the company, sent a manager to see us. The guy was like, "This band sucks!' But Jonathan liked us and thought someone should do something with us. Bob was his youngest rookie manager. He had never managed anyone, and we had never been managed.

BOB MCLYNN: Someone else from my office who isn't with us anymore had seen them, but I hadn't seen them yet. At the time, we'd tried to manage Brand New; they went elsewhere, and I was bummed. Then we got the Fall Out Boy demo, and I was like, Wow. This sounds even better. This guy can really sing, and these songs are great.' I remember going at it hard after that whole thing. Fall Out Boy was my consolation prize. I don't know if they were talking to other managers or not, but Pete and I clicked.

TROHMAN: In addition to being really creative, Pete is really business savvy. We all have a bullshit detector these days, but Pete already had one back then. We met Bob, and we felt like this dude wouldn't fuck us over.

STUMP: We were the misfit toy that nobody else wanted. Bob really believed in us when nobody else did and when nobody believed in him. What's funny is that all the other managers at Crush were gone within a year. It was just Bob and Jonathan, and now they're partners. Bob was the weird New York Hardcore guy who scared me at the time.

TROHMAN: We felt safe with him. He's a big, hulking dude.

MCLYNN: We tried to make a deal with The Militia Group, but they wouldn't back off on a few things in the agreement. I told them those were deal breakers, opening the door to everyone else. I knew this band needed a shot to do bigger and better things.

TROHMAN: He told us not to sign with the label that recommended him to us. We thought there was something very honest about that.

MCLYNN: They paid all their dues. Those guys worked harder than any band I'd ever seen, and I was all about it. I had been in bands before and had just gotten out. I was getting out of the van just as these guys got into one. They busted their asses.

STUMP: A few labels basically said the same thing: they wanted to hear more. They weren't convinced we could write another song as good as 'Dead On Arrival.' I took that as a challenge. We returned to Sean a few months after those initial three songs, this time at Gravity Studios in Chicago. We recorded ‘Grenade Jumper' and 'Grand Theft Autumn/Where is Your Boy' in a night or two. 'Where is Your Boy' was my, 'Fine, you don't think I can write a fucking song? Here's your hit song, jerks!' But I must have pushed Pete pretty hard [arguing about the songs]. One night, as he and I drove with Joe, Pete said, 'Guys, I don't think I want to do this band anymore.' We talked about it for the rest of the ride home. I didn't want to be in the band in the first place! I was like, 'No! That's not fair! Don't leave me with this band! Don't make me kind of like this band, and then leave it! That's bullshit!' Pete didn't stay at the apartment that night. I called him at his parent's house. I told him I wasn't going to do the band without him. He was like, 'Don't break up your band over it.' I said, 'It's not my band. It's a band that you, Joe, and I started.' He was like, 'OK, I'll stick around.' And he came back with a vengeance.

WENTZ: It was maybe the first time we realized we could do these songs titles that didn't have much do with the song from the outside. Grand Theft Auto was such a big pop culture franchise. If you said the phrase back then, everyone recognized it. The play on words was about someone stealing your time in the fall. It was the earliest experimentation with that so it was a little simplistic compared to the stuff we did later. At the time, we'd tell someone the song title, and they'd say, 'You mean "Auto"'?

JOHN JANICK: I saw their name on fliers and thought it was strange. But I remembered it. Then I saw them on a flyer with one of our bands from Chicago, August Premier. I called them and asked about this band whose name I had seen on a few flyers now. They told me they were good and I should check it out. I heard an early version of a song online and instantly fell in love with it. Drive-Thru, The Militia Group, and a few majors tried to sign them. I was the odd man out. But I knew I wanted them right away.

HURLEY: Fueled By Ramen was co-owned by Vinnie [Fiorello] from Less Than Jake. It wasn't necessarily a band I grew up loving, but I had so much respect for them and what they had done and were doing.

JANICK: I randomly cold-called them at the apartment and spoke to Patrick. He told me I had to talk to Pete. I spoke to Pete later that day. We ended up talking on the phone for an hour. It was crazy. I never flew out there. I just got to know them over the phone.

MCLYNN: There were majors [interested], but I didn't want the band on a major right away. I knew they wouldn't understand the band. Rob Stevenson from Island Records knew all the indie labels were trying to sign Fall Out Boy. We did this first-ever incubator sort of deal. I also didn't want to stay on an indie forever; I felt we needed to develop and have a chance to do bigger and better things, but these indies didn't necessarily have radio staff. It was sort of the perfect scenario. Island gave us money to go on Fueled By Ramen, with whom we did a one-off. No one else would offer a one-off on an indie.

STUMP: They were the smallest of the labels involved, with the least 'gloss.' I said, 'I don't know about this, Pete.' Pete was the one who thought it was the smartest move. He pointed out that we could be a big fish in a small pond. So, we rolled the dice.

HURLEY: It was a one-record deal with Fueled By Ramen. We didn't necessarily get signed to Island, but they had the 'right of first refusal' [for the album following Take This To Your Grave]. It was an awesome deal. It was kind of unheard of, maybe, but there was a bunch of money coming from Island that we didn't have to recoup for promo type of things.

JANICK: The company was so focused on making sure we broke Fall Out Boy; any other label probably wouldn't have had that dedication. Pete and I talked for at least an hour every day. Pete and I became so close, so much so that we started Decaydance. It was his thing, but we ended up signing Panic! At The Disco, Gym Class Heroes, Cobra Starship.

GUTIERREZ: Who could predict Pete would A&R all those bands? There's no Panic! At The Disco or Gym Class Heroes without Wentz. He made them into celebrities.

"Turn This Up And I'll Tune You Out" - The Making of Take This To You Grave, 2003

The versions of "Dead on Arrival," "Saturday," and "Homesick at Space Camp" from the first sessions with Andy on drums are what appear on the album. "Grand Theft Autumn/Where is Your Boy" and "Grenade Jumper" are the demo versions recorded later in Chicago. O'Keefe recorded the music for the rest of the songs at Smart Studios once again. They knocked out the remaining songs in just nine days. Sean and Patrick snuck into Gravity Studios in the middle of the night to track vocals in the dead of winter. Patrick sang those seven songs from two to five in the morning in those sessions.

STUMP: John Janick basically said, ‘I'll buy those five songs and we'll make them part of the album, and here's some money to go record seven more.'

MCLYNN: It was a true indie deal with Fueled by Ramen. I think we got between $15,000 and $18,000 all-in to make the album. The band slept on the studio floor some nights.

STUMP: From a recording standpoint, it was amazing. It was very pro, we had Sean, all this gear, the fun studio accoutrements were there. It was competitive with anything we did afterward. But meanwhile, we're still four broke idiots.

WENTZ: We fibbed to our parents about what we were doing. I was supposed to be in school. I didn't have access to money or a credit card. I don't think any of us did.

STUMP: I don't think we slept anywhere we could shower, which was horrifying. There was a girl that Andy's girlfriend at the time went to school with who let us sleep on her floor, but we'd be there for maybe four hours at a time. It was crazy.

HURLEY: Once, Patrick thought it would be a good idea to spray this citrus bathroom spray under his arms like deodorant. It just destroyed him because it's not made for that. But it was all an awesome adventure.

WENTZ: We were so green we didn't really know how studios worked. Every day there was soda for the band. We asked, 'Could you take that soda money and buy us peanut butter, jelly, and bread?' which they did. I hear that stuff in some ways when I listen to that album.

HURLEY: Sean pushed us. He was such a perfectionist, which was awesome. I felt like, ‘This is what a real professional band does.' It was our first real studio experience.

WENTZ: Seeing the Nirvana Nevermind plaque on the wall was mind-blowing. They showed us the mic that had been used on that album.

HURLEY: The mic that Kurt Cobain used, that was pretty awesome, crazy, legendary, and cool. But we didn't get to use it.

WENTZ: They said only Shirley Manson] from Garbage could use it.

O'KEEFE: Those dudes were all straight edge at the time. It came up in conversation that I had smoked weed once a few months before. That started this joke that I was this huge stoner, which obviously I wasn't. They'd call me 'Scoobie Snacks O'Keefe' and all these things. When they turned in the art for the record, they thanked me with like ten different stoner nicknames - 'Dimebag O'Keefe' and stuff like that. The record company made Pete take like seven of them out because they said it was excessively ridiculous.

WENTZ: Sean was very helpful. He worked within the budget and took us more seriously than anyone else other than Patrick. There were no cameras around. There was no documentation. There was nothing to indicate this would be some ‘legendary' session. There are 12 songs on the album because those were all the songs we had. There was no pomp or circumstance or anything to suggest it would be an 'important’ record.

STUMP: Pete and I were starting to carve out our niches. When Pete [re-committed himself to the band], it felt like he had a list of things in his head he wanted to do right. Lyrics were on that list. He wasn't playing around anymore. I wrote the majority of the lyrics up to that point - ‘Saturday,' 'Dead on Arrival,' ‘Where's Your Boy?,’ ‘Grenade Jumper,' and ‘Homesick at Space Camp.' I was an artsy-fartsy dude who didn't want to be in a pop-punk band, so I was going really easy on the lyrics. I wasn't taking them seriously. When I look back on it, I did write some alright stuff. But I wasn't trying. Pete doesn't fuck around like that, and he does not take that kindly. When we returned to the studio, he started picking apart every word, every syllable. He started giving me [notes]. I got so exasperated at one point I was like, ‘You just write the fucking lyrics, dude. Just give me your lyrics, and I'll write around them.' Kind of angrily. So, he did. We hadn't quite figured out how to do it, though. I would write a song, scrap my lyrics, and try to fit his into where mine had been. It was exhausting. It was a rough process. It made both of us unhappy.

MCLYNN: I came from the post-hardcore scene in New York and wasn't a big fan of the pop-punk stuff happening. What struck me with these guys was the phenomenal lyrics and Patrick's insane voice. Many guys in these kinds of bands can sing alright, but Patrick was like a real singer. This guy had soul. He'd take these great lyrics Pete wrote and combine it with that soul, and that's what made their unique sound. They both put their hearts on their sleeves when they wrote together.

STUMP: We had a massive fight over 'Chicago is So Two Years Ago.' I didn't even want to record that song. I was being precious with things that were mine. Part of me thought the band wouldn't work out, and I'd go to college and do some music alone. I had a skeletal version of 'Chicago...'. I was playing it to myself in the lobby of the studio. I didn't know anyone was listening. Sean was walking by and wanted to [introduce it to the others]. I kind of lost my song. I was very precious about it. Pete didn't like some of the lyrics, so we fought. We argued over each word, one at a time. 'Tell That Mick...' was also a pretty big fight. Pete ended up throwing out all my words on that one. That was the first song where he wrote the entire set of lyrics. My only change was light that smoke' instead of ‘cigarette' because I didn't have enough syllables to say 'cigarette.' Everything else was verbatim what he handed to me. I realized I must really want to be in this band at this point if I'm willing to put up with this much fuss. The sound was always more important to me - the rhythm of the words, alliteration, syncopation - was all very exciting. Pete didn't care about any of that. He was all meaning. He didn't care how good the words sounded if they weren't amazing when you read them. Man, did we fight about that. We fought for nine days straight while not sleeping and smelling like shit. It was one long argument, but I think some of the best moments resulted from that.

WENTZ: In 'Calm Before the Storm,' Patrick wrote the line, 'There's a song on the radio that says, 'Let's Get This Party Started' which is a direct reference to Pink's 2001 song 'Get the Party Started.' 'Tell That Mick He Just Made My List of Things to Do Today' is a line from the movie Rushmore. I thought we'd catch a little more flack for that, but even when we played it in Ireland, there was none of that. It's embraced, more like a shoutout.

STUMP: Pete and I met up on a lot of the same pop culture. He was more into '80s stuff than I was. One of the first things we talked about were Wes Anderson movies.

WENTZ: Another thing driving that song title was the knowledge that our fanbase wouldn't necessarily be familiar with Wes Anderson. It could be something that not only inspired us but something fans could also go check out. People don't ask us about that song so much now, but in that era, we'd answer and tell them to go watch Rushmore. You gotta see this movie. This line is a hilarious part of it.' Hopefully some people did. I encountered Jason Schwartzman at a party once. We didn't get to talk about the movie, but he was the sweetest human, and I was just geeking out. He told me he was writing a film with Wes Anderson about a train trip in India. I wanted to know about the writing process. He was like, 'Well, he's in New York City, I'm in LA. It's crazy because I'm on the phone all the time and my ear gets really hot.' That's the anecdote I got, and I loved it.

O'KEEFE: They're totally different people who approach making music from entirely different angles. It's cool to see them work. Pete would want a certain lyric. Patrick was focused on the phrasing. Pete would say the words were stupid and hand Patrick a revision, and Patrick would say I can't sing those the way I need to sing this. They would go through ten revisions for one song. I thought I would lose my mind with both of them, but then they would find it, and it would be fantastic. When they work together, it lights up. It takes on a life of its own. It's not always happy. There's a lot of push and pull, and each is trying to get their thing. With Take This To Your Grave, we never let anything go until all three of us were happy. Those guys were made to do this together.

WENTZ: A lot of the little things weren't a big deal, but those were things that [felt like] major decisions. I didn't want 'Where Is Your Boy' on Take This To Your Grave.

JANICK: I freaked out. I called Bob and said, 'We must put this song on the album! It's one of the biggest songs.' He agreed. We called Pete and talked about it; he was cool about it and heard us out.

WENTZ: I thought many things were humongous, and they just weren't. They didn't matter one way or another.

"Our Lawyer Made Us Change The (Album Cover)" - That Photo On Take This To Your Grave, 2003

STUMP: The band was rooted in nostalgia from early on. The '80s references were very much Pete's aesthetic. He had an idea for the cover. It ended up being his girlfriend at the time, face down on the bed, exhausted, in his bedroom. That was his bedroom in our apartment. His room was full of toys, '80s cereals. If we ended up with the Abbey Road cover of pop-punk, that original one was Sgt. Pepper's. But we couldn't legally clear any of the stuff in the photo. Darth Vader, Count Chocula…

WENTZ: There's a bunch of junk in there: a Morrissey poster, I think a Cher poster, Edward Scissorhands. We submitted it to Fueled by Ramen, and they were like, 'We can't clear any of this stuff.’ The original album cover did eventually come out on the vinyl version.

STUMP: The photo that ended up being the cover was simply a promo photo for that album cycle. We had to scramble. I was pushing the Blue Note jazz records feel. That's why the CD looks a bit like vinyl and why our names are listed on the front. I wanted a live photo on the cover. Pete liked the Blue Note idea but didn't like the live photo idea. I also made the fateful decision to have my name listed as 'Stump' rather than Stumph.

WENTZ: What we used was initially supposed to be the back cover. I remember someone in the band being pissed about it forever. Not everyone was into having our names on the cover. It was a strange thing to do at the time. But had the original cover been used, it wouldn't have been as iconic as what we ended up with. It wouldn't have been a conversation piece. That stupid futon in our house was busted in the middle. We're sitting close to each other because the futon was broken. The exposed brick wall was because it was the worst apartment ever. It makes me wonder: How many of these are accidental moments? At the time, there was nothing iconic about it. If we had a bigger budget, we probably would have ended up with a goofier cover that no one would have cared about.

STUMP: One of the things I liked about the cover was that it went along with something Pete had always said. I'm sure people will find this ironic, but Pete had always wanted to create a culture with the band where it was about all four guys and not just one guy. He had the foresight to even think about things like that. I didn't think anyone would give a fuck about our band! At the time, it was The Pete Wentz Band to most people. With that album cover, he was trying to reject that and [demonstrate] that all four of us mattered. A lot of people still don't get that, but whatever. I liked that element of the cover. It felt like a team. It felt like Voltron. It wasn't what I like to call 'the flying V photo' where the singer is squarely in the center, the most important, and everyone else is nearest the camera in order of 'importance.' The drummer would be in the very back. Maybe the DJ guy who scratches records was behind the drummer.

"You Need Him. I Could Be Him. Where Is Your Boy Tonight?" - The Dynamics of Punk Pop's Fab 4, 2003

Patrick seemed like something of the anti-frontman, never hogging the spotlight and often shrinking underneath his baseball hat. Wentz was more talkative, more out front on stage and in interviews, in a way that felt unprecedented for a bass player who wasn't also singing. In some ways, Fall Out Boy operated as a two-headed dictatorship. Wentz and Stump are in the car's front seat while Joe and Andy ride in the back.

STUMP: There is a lot of truth to that. Somebody must be in the front seat, no question. But the analogy doesn't really work for us; were more like a Swiss Army knife. You've got all these different attachments, but they are all part of the same thing. When you need one specific tool, the rest go back into the handle. That was how the band functioned and still does in many ways. Pete didn't want anyone to get screwed. Some things we've done might not have been the best business decision but were the right human decision. That was very much Pete's thing. I was 19 and very reactionary. If someone pissed me off, I'd be like, 'Screw them forever!' But Pete was very tactful. He was the business guy. Joe was active on the internet. He wouldn't stop believing in this band. He was the promotions guy. Andy was an honest instrumentalist: ‘I'm a drummer, and I'm going to be the best fucking drummer I can be.' He is very disciplined. None of us were that way aside from him. I was the dictator in the studio. I didn't know what producing was at the time or how it worked, but in retrospect, I've produced a lot of records because I'm an asshole in the studio. I'm a nice guy, but I'm not the nicest guy in the studio. It's a lot easier to know what you don't want. We carved out those roles early. We were very dependent on each other.

MCLYNN: I remember sitting in Japan with those guys. None of them were drinking then, but I was drinking plenty. It was happening there, their first time over, and all the shows were sold out. I remember looking at Pete and Patrick and telling Pete, ‘You're the luckiest guy in the world because you found this guy.' Patrick laughed. Then I turned to Patrick and said the same thing to him. Because really, they're yin and yang. They fit together so perfectly. The fact that Patrick found this guy with this vision, Pete had everything for the band laid out in his mind. Patrick, how he can sing, and what he did with Pete's lyrics - no one else could have done that. We tried it, even with the Black Cards project in 2010. We'd find these vocalists. Pete would write lyrics, and they'd try to form them into songs, but they just couldn't do it the way Patrick could. Pete has notebooks full of stuff that Patrick turns into songs. Not only can he sing like that, but how he turns those into songs is an art unto itself. It's really the combination of those two guys that make Fall Out Boy what it is. They're fortunate they found each other.

"I Could Walk This Fine Line Between Elation And Success. We All Know Which Way I'm Going To Strike The Stake Between My Chest" - Fall Out Boy Hits the Mainstream, 2003

Released on May 6, 2003, Take This To Your Grave massively connected with fans. (Fall Out Boy's Evening Out with Your Girlfriend arrived in stores less than two months earlier.) While Take This To Your Grave didn't crack the Billboard 200 upon its release, it eventually spent 30 weeks on the charts. From Under the Cork Tree debuted in the Top 10 just two years later, largely on Grave's momentum. 2007's Infinity on High bowed at #1.

WENTZ: I remember noticing it was getting insane when we would do in-stores. We'd still play anywhere. That was our deal. We liked being able to sell our stuff in the stores, too. It would turn into a riot. We played a Hollister at the mall in Schaumburg, Illinois. A lot of these stores were pretty corporate with a lot of rules, but Hollister would let us rip. Our merch guy was wearing board shorts, took this surfboard off the wall, and started crowd-surfing with it during the last song. I remember thinking things had gotten insane right at that moment.

HURLEY: When we toured with Less Than Jake, there were these samplers with two of their songs and two of ours. Giving those out was a surreal moment. To have real promotion for a record... It wasn't just an ad in a 'zine or something. It was awesome.

MCLYNN: They toured with The Reunion Show, Knockout, and Punch-line. One of their first big tours as an opening act was with MEST. There would be sold-out shows with 1,000 kids, and they would be singing along to Fall Out Boy much louder than to MEST. It was like, 'What's going on here?' It was the same deal with Less Than Jake. It really started catching fire months into the album being out. You just knew something was happening. As a headliner, they went from 500-capacity clubs to 1500 - 2000 capacity venues.

WENTZ: We always wanted to play The Metro in Chicago. It got awkward when they started asking us to play after this band or that band. There were bands we grew up with that were now smaller than us. Headlining The Metro was just wild. My parents came.

MCLYNN: There was a week on Warped Tour, and there was some beel because these guys were up-and-comers, and some of the bands that were a little more established weren't too happy. They were getting a little shit on Warped Tour that week, sort of their initiation. They were on this little, shitty stage. So many kids showed up to watch them in Detroit, and the kids rushed the stage, and it collapsed. The PA failed after like three songs. They finished with an acapella, 'Where is Your Boy,’ and the whole crowd sang along.

WENTZ: That's when every show started ending in a riot because it couldn't be contained. We ended up getting banned from a lot of venues because the entire crowd would end up onstage. It was pure energy. We'd be billed on tour as the opening band, and the promoter would tell us we had to close the show or else everyone would leave after we played. We were a good band to have that happen to because there wasn't any ego. We were just like, "Oh, that's weird.' It was just bizarre. When my parents saw it was this wid thing, they said, 'OK, yeah, maybe take a year off from college.' That year is still going on.

MCLYNN: That Warped Tour was when the band's first big magazine cover, by far, hit the stands. I give a lot of credit to Norman Wonderly and Mike Shea at Alternative Press. They saw what was happening with Fall Out Boy and were like, 'We know it's early with you guys, but we want to give you a cover.' It was the biggest thing to happen to any of us. It really helped kick it to another level. It helped stoke the fires that were burning. This is back when bands like Green Day, Blink-182, and No Doubt still sold millions of records left and right. It was a leap of faith for AP to step out on Fall Out Boy the way they did.

STUMP: That was our first big cover. It was crazy. My parents flipped out. That wasn't a small zine. It was a magazine my mom could find in a bookstore and tell her friends. It was a shocking time. It's still like that. Once the surrealism starts, it never ends. I was onstage with Taylor Swift ten years later. That statement just sounds insane. It's fucking crazy. But when I was onstage, I just fell into it. I wasn't thinking about how crazy it was until afterward. It was the same thing with the AP cover. We were so busy that it was just another one of those things we were doing that day. When we left, I was like, 'Holy fuck! We're on the cover of a magazine! One that I read! I have a subscription to that!'

HURLEY: Getting an 'In The Studio' blurb was a big deal. I remember seeing bands 'in the studio' and thinking, Man, I would love to be in that and have people care that we're in the studio.' There were more minor things, but that was our first big cover.

STUMP: One thing I remember about the photo shoot is I was asked to take off my hat. I was forced to take it off and had been wearing that hat for a while. I never wanted to be the lead singer. I always hoped to be a second guitarist with a backup singer role. I lobbied to find someone else to be the proper singer. But here I was, being the lead singer, and I fucking hated it. When I was a drummer, I was always behind something. Somehow the hat thing started. Pete gave me a hat instead of throwing it away - I think it's the one I'm wearing on the cover of Take This To Your Grave. It became like my Linus blanket. I had my hat, and I could permanently hide. You couldn't see my eyes or much of me, and I was very comfortable that way. The AP cover shoot was the first time someone asked me to remove it. My mom has a poster of that cover in her house, and every time I see it, I see the fear on my face - just trying to maintain composure while filled with terror and insecurity. ‘Why is there a camera on me?'

JANICK: We pounded the pavement every week for two years. We believed early on that something great was going to happen. As we moved to 100,000 and 200,000 albums, there were points where everything was tipping. When they were on the cover of Alternative Press. When they did Warped for five days, and the stage collapsed. We went into Christmas with the band selling 2000 to 3000 a week and in the listening stations at Hot Topic. Fueled By Ramen had never had anything like that before.

MOSTOFI: Pete and I used to joke that if he weren't straight edge, he would have likely been sent to prison or worse at some point before Fall Out Boy. Pete has a predisposition to addictive behavior and chemical dependency. This is something we talked about a lot back in the day. Straight Edge helped him avoid some of the traps of adolescence.

WENTZ: I was straight edge at the time. I don't think our band would have been so successful without that. The bands we were touring with were partying like crazy. Straight Edge helped solidify the relationship between the four of us. We were playing for the love of music, not for partying or girls or stuff like that. We liked being little maniacs running around. Hurley and I were kind of the younger brothers of the hardcore kids we were in bands with. This was an attempt to get out of that shadow a little bit. Nobody is going to compare this band to Racetraitor. You know when you don't want to do exactly what your dad or older brother does? There was a little bit of that.

"Take This To Your Grave, And I'll Take It To Mine" - The Legacy of Take This To Your Grave, 2003-2023

Take This To Your Grave represents a time before the paparazzi followed Wentz to Starbucks, before marriages and children, Disney soundtracks, and all the highs and lows of an illustrious career. The album altered the course for everyone involved with its creation. Crush Music added Miley Cyrus, Green Day, and Weezer to their roster. Fueled By Ramen signed Twenty One Pilots, Paramore, A Day To Remember, and All Time Low.

STUMP: I'm so proud of Take This To Your Grave. I had no idea how much people were going to react to it. I didn't know Fall Out Boy was that good of a band. We were this shitty post-hardcore band that decided to do a bunch of pop-punk before I went to college, and Pete went back to opening for Hatebreed. That was the plan. Somehow this record happened. To explain to people now how beautiful and accidental that record was is difficult. It seems like it had to have been planned, but no, we were that shitty band that opened for 25 Ta Life.

HURLEY: We wanted to make a record as perfect as Saves The Day's Through Being Cool. A front-to-back perfect collection of songs. That was our obsession with Take This To Your Grave. We were just trying to make a record that could be compared in any way to that record. There's just something special about when the four of us came together.

WENTZ: It blows my mind when I hear people talking about Take This To Your Grave or see people including it on lists because it was just this tiny personal thing. It was very barebones. That was all we had, and we gave everything we had to it. Maybe that's how these big iconic bands feel about those records, too. Perhaps that's how James Hetfield feels when we talk about Kill 'Em All. That album was probably the last moment many people had of having us as their band that their little brother didn't know about. I have those feelings about certain bands, too. 'This band was mine. That was the last time I could talk about them at school without anyone knowing who the fuck I was talking about.' That was the case with Take This To Your Grave.

TROHMAN: Before Save Rock N' Roll, there was a rumor that we would come back with one new song and then do a Take This To Your Grave tenth-anniversary tour. But we weren't going to do what people thought we would do. We weren't going to [wear out] our old material by just returning from the hiatus with a Take This To Your Grave tour.

WENTZ: We've been asked why we haven't done a Take This To Your Grave tour. In some ways, it's more respectful not to do that. It would feel like we were taking advantage of where that record sits, what it means to people and us.

HURLEY: When Metallica released Death Magnetic, I loved the record, but I feel like Load and Reload were better in a way, because you knew that's what they wanted to do.

TROHMAN: Some people want us to make Grave again, but I'm not 17. It would be hard to do something like that without it being contrived. Were proud of those songs. We know that’s where we came from. We know the album is an important part of our history.

STUMP: There's always going to be a Take This To Your Grave purist fan who wants that forever: But no matter what we do, we cannot give you 2003. It'll never happen again. I know the feeling, because I've lived it with my favorite bands, too. But there's a whole other chunk of our fans who have grown with us and followed this journey we're on. We were this happy accident that somehow came together. It’s tempting to plagarize yourself. But it’s way more satisfying and exciting to surprise yourself.

MCILRITH: Fall Out Boy is an important band for so many reasons. I know people don't expect the singer of Rise Against to say that, but they really are. If nothing else, they created so much dialog and conversation within not just a scene but an international scene. They were smart. They got accused of being this kiddie pop punk band, but they did smart things with their success. I say that, especially as a guy who grew up playing in the same Chicago hardcore bands that would go on and confront be-ing a part of mainstream music. Mainstream music and the mainstream world are machines that can chew your band up if you don't have your head on straight when you get into it. It's a fast-moving river, and you need to know what direction you're going in before you get into it. If you don't and you hesitate, it'll take you for a ride. Knowing those guys, they went into it with a really good idea. That's something that the hardcore instilled in all of us. Knowing where you stand on those things, we cut our teeth on the hardcore scene, and it made us ready for anything that the world could throw at us, including the giant music industry.

#long post #lke. VERY long post #fall out boy #fob #take this to your grave #tttyg #patrick stump #pete wentz #joe trohman #andy hurley #if theres any typos lmk and i'll fix em this. hust took fucking forever to transcribe.

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bteezxyewriter12 · 2 months ago

Text

Corruption/ 1

Pairing- Seonghwa x Named Reader

Word count- 5.1k

Includes- Nerdy virgin Hwa, blow job, deepthroating, pussy eating, cum eating, cock riding, corruption, multiple orgasms

Tag List- @mingtina @jaxminnie @yeosayang @delightfulmoonbanana @tannie13 @y00nzin0 @marsstarxhwa

@yeosxxx @seokwoosmole @jjongsbebe @wisejudgedragonhairdo @meowmeowminnie @woo-stars @borntowalkaway @usagionthered @san-realblkwife @seonghwasstar @jejeyeppeo @soulseobi05 @kpop-bambi @prayerofthehaim @realisticnotes @insomniacatiny @stephy-nicole13 @mknae-jongho @bykeynote @amyz78 @blueie-things @ultrapinkvoidbouquet @armystayluv23 @soso59love-blog @annalynsworld

Masterlists- check out for more fics

📝Corruption Masterlist

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Gif Credit- There's a symbol or something in the corner of the gif that I can't make out. If someone knows the creator let me know and I'll link them

J POV

"Yes, oh fuck yes", the woman on the screen yells

Seonghwa sits with his eyes wide behind his glasses and his mouth dropped while I smirk at him

"Is she-"

"Coming in his mouth? Yeah", I answer

I had no idea that Seonghwa was home when I decided to watch some porn and get off

Luckily I just turned it on and hadn't started undressing when he walked in asking about the moaning

His eyes hit the TV and he looked so surprised and immediately blushed

I made a joke about him never seeing porn before to cover up my embarrassment and he admitted that he's never watch any

Needless to say my jaw fell to the floor

I mean it's not unbelievable

Seonghwa is totally clueless about sex

I figured that out when his mom dated then married my dad four years ago

We were both 21 and thrown together, suddenly step siblings

Although he's never felt like a step brother

More like a shy, nerdy, clueless friend

He even offered to move out of our parents home and into this apartment with me so I'm not solely responsible for bills and rent

Don't get me wrong he's really nice and sweet but he's sheltered, socially awkward and completely dumb about sex

Which is surprising because he's totally hot

Beautiful

But he so doesn't know it

Anyway, I invited him to watch with me and to my shock he sat on my bed, his eyes glued to the screen

"In...his mouth?", he gapes

I nod, "Yeah"

"What uh...what does he do with it?"

I raise my eyebrow, "Swallows it"

"Oh", he says, his cheeks reddening

"Do you wanna stop watching?"

He shakes his head, "I'm ok"

I shrug

Fine by me

The couple on the porn move, her now giving him a blow job

As the scene progresses, Seonghwa pushes up his glasses, his hand shaking slightly

I watch him as the video goes on, liking how nervous he is

Also liking how awed he is at seeing two people have sex

I know his mom is nuts about sex, keeping him in the dark about it, telling him it's bad and to only do it if you want to have kids

I know, she tried the same shit with me when our parents married asking if I was a virgin, shaming me for not being one while proudly stating that Seonghwa is

I honestly have no idea if he is or not but I basically told her to shove it

Yeah, she doesn't like me much

She also is so mad that Seonghwa chose to move out of the house and blames me

Like I'm gonna force him to join a sex cult and have massive amounts of orgies or something

I have no clue how my dad handles her but love makes you deal with stupid things

The guys in the video groans as he cums inside the woman, then he pulls out and the camera does a close up of her pussy dripping his cum

As per usual

When the video ends, I go back to the home site then look over at Seonghwa

He's swallowing hard, his hands over the tent in his pants, trying to push it down

I wonder if he even jerks off

Nevertheless this is the perfect time to lightly tease him and find out about his virgin status

"So have you watched porn before at all?"

His whole face turns red as he answers, "Nnn..not on my own. Once when my friends made me"

Probably Hongjoong and Wooyoung

They're horny little shits, always hitting on me when they're over

I've considered fucking them but I don't want to make things weird for Seonghwa

He was nice enough to move in with me, I don't want him to feel like he can't has his friends over because his horny stepsister will try to fuck them

"Oh. Did you like this one?"

"I uh...well...I...", he stammers, "Yeah"

I nod

For me it was fine

Standard porn

I was just gonna get off quickly then nap so I didn't need anything too kinky

I decided to tease him further

"What part did you like the most?"

He keeps his eyes firmly on my blanket when he says, "I uh...when he.... licked her"

I smirk, "So when he ate her cunt"

I saw him lick his lips a few times while that was happening

His eyebrows shoot up, "Is that what it's called?"

"Yeah. Eating pussy or going down on someone. Or oral. You can call it whichever"

"Oh...I didn't know that", he murmurs, his sheltered life showing, "They...never told me what it was called"

I'm guessing he means his friends

"Have you ever-", I start, curious, but stop when he shakes his head

"I've never...done anything. Not even kissed anyone yet"

I'm fucking shocked

He hasn't even kissed yet?

He's a virgin virgin

Jesus

"You never liked anyone enough to kiss them?"

He shakes his head, "It's not that. It's just I was so worried about it, worried I'd mess up. I'm not really good with girls. And now it's pathetic to tell any girl that a 25 year old man has never kissed anyone and doesn't know how"

Ok now I feel sorry for him

He has to be so in his head about it and now he's scared

"Hwa don't worry about that. The right girl...she won't care that you don't know how to kiss. The right girl will teach you. Just remember that ok?"

He nods, still avoiding eye contact

This conversation took a serious turn and I need to steer it back to a light mood

"So what about the blow job part?"

"What uh...what about it?"

"Did you like seeing that? The girl sucking his dick, choking on it?"

"I uh..yes...the...the sounds...we're uh...nice...when she...choked"

And I see the perfect opportunity to corrupt my dorky step brother

Not gonna lie, I always wanted him

Wanted to fuck him senseless

And this is perfect

Of course if he doesn't want to do anything I won't force him

I'm not like his mom thinks

But I can offer

"Do you...wanna try that?", I ask

His eyes snap to mine, shock in them along with desire, "Try what?"

"A blow job"

"A..a...bbb...blow.."

"Job", I finish for him, "I just...I noticed you're hard and it can't be comfortable. I can take care of it for you"

"You...you can?"

I nod, "I can suck your dick for you. Make those choking sounds you like. Make you cum in my mouth and swallow all of it"

I see his cock twitch in his pants and I refrain from smirking

"I...uh...I don't...I don't....know...what if ..uh.. someone finds out?"

I think he means his mom

"Hwa, no one will find out. I won't tell anyone. We can keep it a secret", I tell him, "The only way anyone would know is if you say something"

"I..I won't", he answers, his eyes pleading with me and I don't think he knows what he's pleading for

He's not thinking, just horny

"So yes?"

He nods rapidly, "Yes. Ok"

"Ok", I smile encouragingly at him, "Lay back"

He slowly leans back against my headboard, sitting up enough so he could clearly see me suck his cock

I slide my hands up his legs, hooking my fingers in his sweatpants

His breathes get harder and harder as I slide the pants down

He automatically lifts his behind up so I can get them down and I smirk at his eagerness

I pull them off and throw them on the floor

Moving between his legs, I lean down and kiss along his cock through his boxers, feeling it twitch against my lips

Fuck, he feels big

I start pulling his boxers down, eager to be face to face with his cock

I waited a long time for this

Getting them off quickly, I move my gaze to his dick and oh fuck

Huge

Fucking huge

Long and thick, nice curve to it

And so fucking hard, straining and crying cum

I literally don't think I've seen a cock this hard before

"Oh Hwa", I murmur, moving my hand around him, pressing a kiss to his underside, "You're so big Hwa"

"I uh...I am?", he asks, so unsure

"Oh yeah baby", I tell him, then lick up from his base to his head, a soft moan coming from him

A moan that makes me so much wetter than I already am

"Your cock is long", I say, licking up again, "And so fat. You're gonna make me choke so good"

"Oh god", he murmurs, his legs already shaking

He's not lasting long

"But before I suck on you, I need a taste", I smirk, then lick along his slit, his cum on my tongue

I collect as much as I can then swallow it

Fucking good

"Mmm Hwannie. You taste so yummy", I praise him

I glance up at him, pleased to see him fucked out already, his eyes on my mouth by his dick

"Do you like seeing me lick your pretty cock?", is sk, kicking again

He nods, "Yeah"

"Want me to suck?"

He nods

"Words Hwa. Tell me what you want"

"Please Jo, sss...suck my cock"

Gotta admit, hearing him talk like that is such a turn on

He's normally so dorky, I don't think I've ever heard him curse before

So this is so hot

Moving my mouth around his head, I press my tongue to the underside and suck once

"Oh god...oh my....God", he groans and I take that as a cue to suck more

Hollowing out my cheeks, I suck on his pretty head, his slit already leaking so much in my mouth

I know he's not gonna last so I move down his cock more and more with each suck

Normally I'd take my time, go down his length slowly but I don't want him to cum without deepthroating him

He's louder now, letting out sexy moan after moan as I go down his entire shaft, his cock nestled in my throat

I choke around his dick, spit flowing everywhere, tears in my eyes

God, he's big

I slide back down his length to half way, then bob up taking him back in, his cock sliding down into my throat, making me choke again

God, I love this

I bob up and down fast, fucking my throat on his fat cock, watching his fingers twist in my sheets so hard his knuckles are white

"Oh my god, Jo..oh god....feels so good....fuck"

It's the "fuck" that sends chills down my spine, my eyes moving up to him, blinking the tears away

His face is in so much pleasure, biting his lip hard as he watches me go hard on his length

He's so fucking beautiful it's stupid

I take his hand off the sheet and put it in my hair

I'm craving to feel him pull it

He looks at me with a question in his eyes and I nod

His hand tightens immediately in my strands, holding on but not pulling

I tug on his arm, showing him what I want

"Yyy...you want me to pull your hair?"

I nod, slipping up and down his cock

"Ok", he whispers

I take him all in, sucking hard around his entire dick and he cries out in pleasure, his hand tugging hard on my hair involuntarily

I moan around his length, so turned on, so fucking wet, my panties are complete soaked through

"Oh my god. I can't....I..I think....I'm..", he trails off

I move faster, choking over and over, his cock throbbing in my throat

"Oh fuck, Joanne! Fuck", he cries as his hot cum spills down my throat, his entire body shaking from pleasure, the sound of my name in his voice driving me crazy

I bottom him out, sucking desperately, tasting his sweet cum and swallowing greedily

Goddamn, he cums a lot but I make sure I swallow all of it

When he finishes, I pull off him, licking along his slit to make sure I get all of his cum

Moving my eyes up to him, I smirk at the completely fucked out look on his face

I sit next to him, softly running my fingers in his silky black hair

His eyes move to mine as he smiles weakly

"How was it?"

"So fucking good", he murmurs

"Yeah?"

He nods, "Absolutely"

"Good"

I'm glad I could make him feel good

I give him a few minutes to bathe in the post orgasm bliss

He needs it

I have no clue if he ever jerked off and orgasmed before

But at least I know I'm the first one who's given him an orgasm

I like that

I feel his hand on mine, taking me out of my thoughts and I turn to him

He looks at me nervously

"Can I see....uh...", he trails off, his eyes moving down to my crotch

"My pussy?", I ask excitedly

He nods, blushing again, "Uh yeah"

I shrug, "Sure"

Moving off my bed, I drop my shorts and my panties to the floor

His eyes widen as they look directly at my cunt, him sitting up straighter

I smirk, getting on the bed again, facing him this time

"Wanna see more?", I ask

He nods

I lean back and open my legs for him

He gasps, his eyes widening as he looks

His hands moves around my thighs, as he moves closer, a move I'm not sure he knows he made

"Pretty", he murmurs, making me giggle

Taking his hand, I slowly bring it towards me, putting it on my pussy, pressing his fingers against me, moaning softly at finally feeling his touch

His breath hitches, making me smile

"Mm Hwa", I whimper, "Do you feel how wet I am for you?"

His eyes snap to mine, "Fffff...for me?"

I nod, holding his gaze, "All for you"

"I uh ..wow"

"Touch me", I ask

"I..I don't...I don't know how", he says, sounding so sad

"I'll show you", I tell him, putting my hand over his and guiding him

His fingers run up my cunt and I press them into my clit, moving them in a circle

"Mmm Hwa", I moan, "So good"

I move my hand from his, letting him play with my clit for a bit

I have to say, he's a fast learner, playing with me so blissfully

I look up at him, watching him look at my cunt, his tongue licking his lips slowly

And I get an idea

"Wanna taste my pussy?", I ask nonchalantly

"Yes", he answers immediately, his head nodding like a bobble head doll, "Can you show me what to do?"

"Yeah baby", I answer, moving his hand and putting it on my thigh

"Lick here", I tell him, moving my fingers up my cunt

He nods, taking his glasses off and putting them on my nightstand

He leans down, his tongue on me and he immediately licks up quickly, shivers running up my back

"Slower Hwannie"

He nods, "Ok"

His tongue moves again, this time listening and going slow

"Should I uh ..press harder?"

I nod, "Yeah"

He does exactly that, pressing against my cunt, licking right up between my lips then back down, over and over

"Mmmm", I moan, the pleasure so good, "A little faster"

He listens, doing what I ask and I'm amazed that he's such a good listener

"Where..where your fingers were...", I trail off

"Yeah?", he murmurs

"Lick there"

He nods, the tip of his tongue swiping against my clit over and over

"Yes Hwa", I moan louder, the pleasure increasing so much, "Yes baby, just like that. Fuck"

His tongue now flicks my clit back and forth, a new blissful sensation taking over my body

God he's doing such a good job

His tongue moves in different ways, flicking, swiping, using his whole tongue then just the tip to give me amazing pleasure

I look down to find him already looking up at me, as if he's studying which tongue movement is best, which is my favorite

They're all my favorite

His tongue is just...fuck

"Fuck Hwa", I whimper, "God, you're tongue baby. Fuck, it's so fucking good. You're so good"

He whimpers against my pussy, his tongue moving faster and on his own he tugs my clit in his mouth and starts sucking

Softly at first, stars blasting in my eyes as I scream in pleasure

"Seonghwa!", I yell, my hand burying in his hair, holding on tightly, "Yes baby fuck. Don't stop. Please, don't stop"

His hands push my legs open more, his mouth moving, the sight of his jaw moving as he sucks so fucking hot

The pleasure builds as he slurps around my clit and I let the feel of his mouth around me wash over me, ready to fucking snap

"Keep going Hwa. Just like that", I moan, my hips moving on their own, fucking his face, "I'm gonna cum. Fuck, I'm gonna cum in your mouth"

He sucks hard and I'm thrown head first into a massively pleasurable orgasm, screaming his name as I pull his hair hard

"Seonghwa!", I cry, feeling so fucking good, "Seonghwa! Fuck Seonghwa!"

He sucks me through it, my hips snapping against his face, my legs shaking around his head

Once I relax into the bed, his mouth let's go of my clit but his tongue buries in my pussy licking desperately

"Mmm", he moans, swallowing my cum, soft pleasure humming through me

He licks a few more times then sits up, his cheeks so red, avoiding my eyes

"Hwa", I call softly, patting the bed next to me

He shyly moves next to me, laying down and I turn to him, smiling when I notice his dick is hard

Again

Oh yeah, this is great

I put my hand on his chest, running it down his shirt towards his dick

"Oh Hwa. What happened?", I ask, looking at his length

His eyes follow mine and he swallows hard, silent

"Did you get hard from eating my pussy?", I ask softly

He nods shyly as I wrap my hand around his hard length

So hard, skin so soft

"Did you like it that much?", I tease

He nods again, "So much. You...you taste really good"

I smile at him, "Thanks baby. You taste good too remember?"

"I uh...I...uh", he trails off, nodding

I swear I've never seen Seonghwa blush so much

It's adorable

"So what are we going to do about this?", I ask, glancing down at his cock as I start stroking him

"I don't...I uh I don't know"

"Hmmmm....well....I have an idea", I tell him, getting excited

And so wet from the thought of it

"What is it?", he asks curiously

God, I hope he goes for it

"I can fuck you"

His breath hitches, his eyes finally looking up and meeting my gaze

"You...you can?"

I nod, "I can sit on your dick, slip you inside my pussy and bounce on your cock. Like the girl in the video did when she rode the guy"

His eyes are wide as plates as he stares at me but his cock throbs in my hands as soon as the words are out of my mouth

"Would you like that Hwa? Would you like me to ride you?"

He nods rapidly, "Yes...do you...do you want to?"

"Do I want to be on your dick, riding you hard and coming around your cock? Feeling you cum in my pussy?", I whisper, smiling, "Yeah baby, I want that a lot"

He nods

"Words Hwannie"

"I want you to ride my cock"

Thank fucking god

"Ok baby"

Climbing in his lap, I sit on him, my hands on his shirt, "But first, I need you naked"

"I uh...ok", he stammers

"Sit up for me for a second"

He does and I eagerly pull his shirt up and throw it on the floor

Putting my hands on his chest, I gently push him down, my eyes raking down his body

And my god, what a body it is

His chest is muscular, his skin super soft as I touch him

His heart is beating so fast making me smile

He has upper arm muscles too, which is a huge turn on for me

I love guys' arms and Seonghwa's are perfect

As my eyes travel down, my mouth opens slightly seeing his abs

Like hard abs cut into his skin

How the fuck?

"Oh my god Hwa"

"Www...what?"

"You're a total hottie", I compliment

"I uh...what...I...ah... really?"

He's looking at me with such shock in his eyes

I nod, my fingers tracing his abs, "Oh yeah. I'm surprised you're still a virgin with a body like this"

"Uh...is that...doesn't that mean I'm....a .. loser? Because I'm still a virgin and uh "hot?""

I snap my gaze to him, "No Hwa, of course not. Who told you you're a loser for being a virgin?"

"Uh...well...Wooyoung and uh.."

"Hongjoong?", I finish and he nods, "Don't listen to those idiots Hwa. I like that you're a virgin"

Oh god do I

And if he allows it, I get to take it from him

"You do?"

"Oh yeah", I smirk, "Means I get to show you just how good you can feel. It means I get to have you first, make you cum and fill a pussy first. You liked the blow job didn't you?"

"So much", he nods

"You liked eating me out right? I mean you got hard from it"

"I...I liked going down on you more than the blow job", he says, then his eyes widen, "Not that the blow job wasn't amazing because-"

"Shh Hwa", I giggle, "You're allowed to like what you like ok? It's ok if you liked eating cunt more than getting your dick sucked. Most girls just do blow jobs to get oral from the guy"

"Is...is that why you-"

"Nope", I answer, knowing where he's going with this, "I like sucking dick Hwa. A lot. And I like swallowing cum. I don't give blow jobs to get anything back"

I lean over him, my mouth close to his ear, "And your cum is the best I've ever tasted"

"Uh...thanks", he chokes out

I nod, "Sure baby. How about we see if you like sex more than eating cunt?"

"Ok, but uh...can you...uh", he trails off, tugging on my shirt

"Oh yeah, of course", I answer, smiling, "Wanna see my boobs huh?"

"Yyy...yes", he answers truthfully

I nod, pulling my shirt off, his mouth dropping

Reaching behind me, I undo my bra, slide it down my arms then discard it and my shirt to the floor

When I look back at him, his eyes are huge again, his mouth wide open, his hands reaching out for my boobs

He stops just shy of touching me but I'm not having it

Grabbing his wrists, I pull his hands to me and push them on my boobs

"Oh fuck", he moans, my pussy clenching hearing him curse

His hands squeeze my boobs over and over, my nipples hard against his palm

"You're so....pretty", he whispers, his eyes drinking me in

His hands move down, his long fingers touching my body, tracing the tattoos I have when he gets to them

"You're perfect", he murmurs, shocking me, "Perfect"

Fuck, I need him inside me right now

I rise on my knees, aligning his cock to my hole, "Ready Hwannie?"

He nods, his hands moving back to the bed, palms flat against the sheets

I'll have to fix that when I'm sitting on his cock

He definitely needs to touch me

I sit on his fat head, a soft moan already out of his mouth

I push down, sliding him inside me slowly, letting both of us feel everything

His huge cock pushes into me, spreading me open so pleasurably

I clench on his cock over and over as I move down, sucking him in

"Oh god, oh my god", he cries, intense pleasure on his face

"Mm yeah Hwa, feels so good", I murmur, moving my hips in a circle as I go down his shaft, opening my pussy just a little more for him to fit in

"So good", he whines, "Oh shit"

I finally bottom him out, his head right against my spot, his cock so fat that there's no room to spare

A super snug fit that feels incredible

I rock on his dick, making his head rub my spot, sending shivers up spine

"Fuck", he pants as I reach for his hands and put them on my hips

"How does it feel?", I ask him, grinding on his cock, "How does my pussy feel?"

"So good!", he blurts, "It's so....wet. So warm. And tight. Are you supposed to be this tight?"

I smile, "Well, I've been told I'm tight before but your cock is also fucking huge Hwannie. You make me stretch around you and fill me so much"

"Does...does it hurt?"

I smile at his concern while he's practically unraveling underneath me, "No baby, it doesn't hurt. It feels good"

I slide up his dick then back down, his whimper so pretty

"Don't you feel how snug we are baby? How your big cock stuffs my pussy so perfectly?"

"Yes", he yells, "Yes, oh god"

I open my legs wide, leaning back on his legs, starting to bounce on his cock

I let the pleasure of his dick fill me- the drag of his shaft as he leaves my pussy, the full feeling of him sliding back in, the spark of ecstasy when his head hits my spot

I lean my head back, bouncing slowly but taking him in deep, hard

"Oh my god", I moan, in so much pleasure, "Fuck Seonghwa"

"Fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck", he chants

"Oh god, you're cock is so good", I whine, moving a bit faster, my pussy pulsing around his throbbing cock, "So hard for me. Feels so good Hwa"

I'm not lying

He fits inside me perfectly, making me spread around him so pleasurably, throwing my whole body into blissful shivers

I've never felt this good from sex before

It's been amazing but this...this is mind blowing

"Oh fuck", he cries, "Your pussy...so much....white...are you supposed to be..."

"Creamy?", I finish, moving my head, looking at him

His eyes are glued to my pussy riding his cock, his tongue poking out at the side of his mouth as he pants, sweat drenching his gorgeous body, his wet hair plastered to his face

He's so fucking ethereal, so fucking beautiful and he has no clue

"My pussy gets like this, so wet, creaming the cock I'm fucking when it feels incredibly good", I tell him, "How much is there?"

"So much", he answers immediately, "Pouring from your pussy. Covering my whole cock. All over my lap"

"Mmm", I smirk, my legs burning as I ride him but fuck it feels too amazing to stop, "I only cream a cock that much after I've fucked them for awhile. I've been riding you for only five minutes and I'm already that creamy. You know what that means?"

He shakes his head, his fingers digging into my hips so hard

"It means I love your cock inside me", I reveal, "It means your cock is the best I've ever fucked"

He murmurs incoherently, his cheeks blushing yet again

God he's so cute too

"Do you like that baby? That your cock is the best I've ever had inside me? That yours feels the best?"

"Yes", he whines, his cock throbbing hard, "I like that. I love it. Fuck"

I lean over him, my hands on his shoulders as I bounce as fast as I can, each hit to my spot bringing me closer and closer

"I'm gonna cum on your cock", I moan, my body shaking on top of him, "Can I cum on your cock Hwa?"

"Yes! Yes please! Yes", he shouts

His pleading and the sound of so much pleasure in his voice helps throw me over the edge, right into a mind shattering orgasm

"Seonghwa!", I cry, ecstasy rolling over me in waves as my pussy strangles his cock over and over, coming all over him

I feel myself cream his cock like I've never creamed one before, stars blasting in my eyes

"Fuck! Joanne!", he cries, "Feels so good! Fuck, oh my god, it feels so good"

"Cum inside my pussy Hwannie", I plead, still orgasming and wanting to feel him fill me so badly, "Fill my pussy with your cum"

"Joanne! Fuck! Jo!", he screams, his hips rising, his hands gripping me so tightly as he keeps me on him

His huge cock throbs, then shoots his warm sticky cum, my pussy greedily milking his cock

I want all of it

He screams wordlessly and I watch the stunning sight of him coming

His head pushes into my pillow, his eyes closed, tears falling down his face, sucking in breaths as he screams and shivers under me

"Hwa", I whimper, the last of the pleasure leaving my body the same time he finishes coming inside me

I stay on him, letting his orgasm end, watching him in pleasure

His eyes flutter open, unfocused, looking so fucked out

He looks so cute

I move my hand and wipe the tears away from his face, his eyes slowly moving to me and focusing

"Hi", I smile softly

"Hi", he smiles back

"Was it good?"

He nods shyly, "Amazing. I never expected it to feel that way. I...I didn't know something could....feel that good"

"I know what you mean", I say, moving off him and sitting next to him, "It hasn't felt that good before"

"Uh...really?", he asks, curiously

My face heats up as I realize what I just said

A virgin gave me the best sex of my life, his cock made me cum the hardest I've ever had

What the fuck?

"Uh yeah", I answer, avoiding his eyes

An awkward silence ensues and I need to leave

"So uh, I'm gonna take a shower", I tell him, standing up and inching towards the door, "I'll save some hot water so you can go in after me ok?"

He nods, shy again, his eyes on the floor, "Yea ok. Thank you"

I nod, "Sure"

I leave my room and basically sprint to the bathroom

I get the water on and get in the shower

But I can't get him out of my head

I can't get the images of how beautiful he looked under me out of my head

Of how hot he looked when he ate me out

Of the pleasure on his face when I blew him

And the feel of him inside me was so fucking incredible

Almost like he was made for me

Stop it

It was mostly likely a one time thing

I did what I wanted

I fucked my dorky but surprisingly hot stepbrother

I corrupted him a little bit, like I wanted to

It's over now

I force myself to stop thinking about him and continue my shower

#seonghwa smut #park seonghwa smut #ateez seonghwa smut #seonghwa fanfic #park seonghwa fanfic #ateez seonghwa fanfic #ateez fanfic #ateez smut

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welivetodream · 7 months ago

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✨ My BSD hot takes/unpopular opinions ✨:

1. Identifying BSD characters as Queer, is not problematic. STOP being so Heteronormative. Gay characters are not gonna kill you.

If I see another "BuT tHe ChArAcTeRs nEvEr SaId tHeY aRe GaY" I would bomb you 💣/j

2. Skk/SSKK/Fyolai/other popular ships, exist because people like it. If you don't ship them, don't engage with their content. Not all shippers act crazy and toxic. Stop blaming everything on shippers.

3. Atsushi/Kyouka is problematic, stop justifying it with "only 4 year age gap". Kyouka is a CHILD, ship her with Kenji if you want. Atsushi, like a normal 18 year old would never look at a highschool freshman and date her. Even if they date in the future, he knew her when she was younger and they had a sibling like dynamic. Lucy is a way better love interest to Atsushi (Don't know if this is an unpopular opinion tho, but I saw some people justifying it 😐😐😐)

4. DAZAI IS NOT EVIL. HE IS FAR FROM EVIL. He is, despite being super popular and the face of BSD, the most mischaracterized and villified character. Morally grey characters exist??!!!

5. Mori is a way worse person than Dazai ever was.

6. PM members get a free pass for any heinous crime they commit by being hot or babygirl-ified (still love them tho, we do not often discuss how bad their actions have been, you can like criminals and acknowledge they are criminals in fiction. I would add DoA to this too, but it's worse with the PM)

7. Akutagawa's abuse of Kyouka shouldn't be forgotten just because Dazai abused Akutagawa.

8. Mori emotionally manipulated and abused Dazai when he was a teen. Just because it wasn't physical, doesn't mean it was nothing.

9. Atsushi is NOT a soft boy, he is way bitter, salty and sarcastic than we give him credit

10. Poe is important to Ranpo and their friendship/relationship is wholesome as hell

11. Ranpo and Yosano's friendship is way better than them being in a relationship in the future

12. FukuFuku is better than Fukumori (imo!!!!)

13. Buying real authors work after watching BSD is actually a really good thing, since more Gen z kids (or other people) will read classics

14. There are layers to Atsushi and Akutagawa relationship/rivalry, and they have the MOST important relationship (not meaning romantic, just in general) in the entire canon.

15. Kunikida and Yosano could be a power couple

16. Fyodor is not a great villain (yet)

17. Nikolai CARRIES the DoA

18. Sigma shouldn't be in the ADA, he needs a happy home, family and some time to adjust to normal life

19. Q and Elise are both underused characters and could become a great dynamic

20. Ango deserves more love, the amount of pressure and stress he deals with is INSANE

21. It's OKAY if everyone joins the fandom for Dazai or skk (I did at first too!!)

22. Higuchi is annoying as hell. I do not get her hype, I like her but not as much as most people (just personal opinion, do not flame me 😭)

23. Everyone in The Guild is forgettable or boring (except Fitzgerald, Poe and Lucy. I like Louisa, but I forget her all the time)

24. Hetero ships are just not that great/interesting in BSD to me 🤷🏻‍♀️ (except maybe AtsuLucy or rare pairs) and female characters are not best utilised, I wish they play more major roles (can't wait for Agatha to arrive!!)

25. Some fan theories/arts get the story better than "canon" stuff at times. Fanon is NOT always the worst (sometimes enjoyable when the canon gets too dark or sad)

26. Toxic ships are okay in fiction as long as they are legal. Humans like toxic things, we consume it like junk food 💅🏻

(These are all personal opinions of mine and do not matter. Feel free to disagree. But, do not hate or be toxic!!!! 😇😇😇😇)

(PS: I compiled all these because of posts I have seen in, Reddit, Pinterest, Twitter and sometimes Tiktok. These aren't really abt you Tumblr folks. I meant to post this on reddit but did not have the courage or mental strength lol)

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o2studies · 4 months ago

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17:41 || ༻`` 1 Jan 25 — Wednesday

Wow I can't belive it's the 1st again.... I spent midnight with K and J and I'm so happy to have spent it with such lovely friends. It was truly an amazing way to start the year 💕💕 We had so so much fun! —I survived my first game of Dread!! And I for some reason just feel like 2025 will be a good year, so no matter what happens, I'm gonna make sure that it is!

Anyway though, as with last year, I have made myself a vision board from Pinterest which I based around my New Year's Resolutions. And for accountability I'd like to at the end of this year (a scary thing to think about so soon lol) show photos of how I have achieved/am working towards those goals.

These resolutions are: 🦎

1. To study more often; enjoy the process of studying; become excited for my A Level exams; and get more work done early —avoiding procrastination will help me, not hinder me

2. Spend more time with friends through playing games, meeting up more often, having more casual conversation and keeping in contact after summer

3. Do more of the small things immediately —again, this will only help me— to keep my environemnt more tidy and automated

4. Practice more self care: plan out more outfits, continue painting my nails often, use those fancy creams and perfumes, sit in silence, take myself out more & do more things that I want to do, read more again,

5. Be more physically active and give my dogs the exercise they deserve a lot more often

6. Create more of what I love, finish more projects than I abandon, put more effort into my A Level Art, continue building my artistic skill —doing all that with a better posture as a bonus

I will also be redoing @juneability 's 12dopmas challenge. My areas of focus will be to study art in some way, general school studies and learning Russian (or practicing Polish some days)

Now, I was going to start the challenge today and write more about it but I took many breaks writing this so it's currently 21:47 and I've got a headache so I'll sleep early tonight and start the challenge tomorrow instead TvT👍

Day 106 clean

Day 0

Floor time ☑️ // 🍊

#o2life #o2studies #12dopmas #new years resolution #goals #mood board #vision board #productivity #student #motivation

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fernhelm · 5 months ago

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fern when i did my petey p deep dive the other day i was thinking about the connotations of his name potensh coming from simon peter…… bc of the whole kinda self-serving changeability of his denial of jesus thing…… imagining pete at de meetings like ‘james?? i don’t think i know a james’……. but also ur rb was craaaaazy!! picture me nodding my head in complete agreement

kara this sent me down a hole…..i agree the denial of jesus is the most peter pettigrew thing about disciple peter…besides the devotion and being defined in terms of servitude (a slave and apostle)

i love the part where peter’s like ‘no man, im your ride or die, swear’ and jesus is like ‘no im saying you WILL deny me’ and peter’s like ‘nuh uh’

and then has a breakdown later. he’s so dramatic (both of them). being like ‘hey everyone else could leave you and i’d be the only one left. i’ll never leave you’ is VERY peter pettigrew. he wants to get the best grade in discipleship. also so sneaky and pettigrew that he says all that to his face and then when he’s afraid for his life it’s i do not know that man. ‘james? potter? never really crossed paths.’ meanwhile he was concocting machiavellian plots all 7 years at hogwarts trying to beat sirius for title of james’ best friend. peter!!!! peters!!!

however i don’t believe that peter pettigrew is having a breakdown like disciple peter, oh no. he is viciously satisfied with his work. we’re working with a ‘if i can’t have you then you need to die’ kind of mindset. in my heart of hearts i believe that peter pettigrew has such deep twisted psychosexual love for james potter that it could only be approximated by the j&j dynamic. like cunty peter pettigrew giving james potter a kiss on the cheek and just after: ‘GUARDS! SEIZE HIM!’ you know he would.

also sirius has to be my biblepeter in this whole allegory (holy shit we’re talking about harry potter aren’t we) because of this interaction in john 21 where jesus is like ‘do you love me?’ three times and he says yes over and over and jesus keeps saying then feed my sheep, like take care of my people. it’s such a james&sirius dynamic, especially if harry is the sheep in question. just the idea of james being like ‘do you love me? take care of my son’, and sirius wanting to but failing. because harry was always the sacrificial lamb :(

#never bring up the bible to a girl w the bible app on her phone it’s too tempting to start playing #why am i bible posting #why am i like this #harry ‘boy marked for slaughter’ potter you will always be famous #fern.txt #thank you for enabling me to bring more mental illness out of the woodwork #a wormtail will turn

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siren-serenity · 2 years ago

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the takeover of crews has begun...

𝐖𝐄𝐋𝐂𝐎𝐌𝐄 𝐓𝐎 𝐓𝐇𝐄 𝐒𝐄𝐂𝐎𝐍𝐃 𝐆𝐄𝐍𝐄𝐑𝐀𝐓𝐈𝐎𝐍 𝐎𝐅 𝐊𝐈𝐍𝐆𝐒 they call the second generation shitty and filled with fucking pussies...i think they need to be fucked up to oblivion.

-all written by 𝐒𝐈𝐑𝐄𝐍-

note: the ones with (nsfw) are not suitable for minors! minors dni. however, those without any other labelling are safe for everyone :)

𝐈 𝐖𝐀𝐍𝐓 𝐘𝐎𝐔…𝐓𝐎 𝐃𝐄𝐒𝐓𝐑𝐎𝐘 𝐓𝐇𝐄 𝐅𝐎𝐔𝐑 𝐂𝐑𝐄𝐖𝐒. 𝐖𝐇𝐀𝐓𝐄𝐕𝐄𝐑 𝐈𝐓 𝐓𝐀𝐊𝐄𝐒. note: i will only write platonic/romantic for the students of J-High School unless they are aged up because they are minors. i will allow romantic/nsfw as long as the reader is appropriately aged compared to the character (no large age gaps allowed) ex. all J-High students must be aged up for nsfw work. i will not write for anyone in the first generation or pre-generation unless they are for platonic purposes (james lee is 21~23 years old so nsfw and romantic is allowed) all my LOOKISM works contain spoilers from the webtoon. you have been warned!

𝐃𝐀𝐍𝐈𝐄𝐋 𝐏𝐀𝐑𝐊 ↳˳;; ❝ a hopeless romantic all my lifeᵕ̈೫˚∗

"quick daniel!" you drag him away from the chaotic group at lotte world and to the photobooths. daniel is stuck in a stupor of wonder as he stares at the bright and colorful decorations around him, like he just entered a whole new world. lotte world is just that amazing, in your honest opinion. you gesture for him to lean down and you put the silly mickey mouse ears in his hair before pointing at the camera. "one, two, three!" just as the camera flashes, daniel turns around to press his lips to your cheeks, his own cheeks flushing bright red at his actions.

𝐙𝐀𝐂𝐊 𝐋𝐄𝐄 ↳˳;; ❝ _______________ᵕ̈೫˚∗

"i'm sorry," zack apologizes. the room is barren and quiet, save for you two. you dab a small cotton fluff that was previously dipped in alcohol and press it to his cut, making him let out a wince. "sorry for fighting when you said you hate it." you hum before smiling. "but that guy ended up way worse, right?" zack's chest huffs up as he gives you a grin. "of course! no one insults my lover and gets away with it that easily!"

𝐄𝐔𝐍𝐓𝐀𝐄 𝐋𝐄𝐄/𝐕𝐀𝐒𝐂𝐎 ↳˳;; ❝ cuteness overloadᵕ̈೫˚∗

vasco calls out your name eagerly; his voice echos in the halls of j-high, making everyone stare at the two of you. he dashes through the corridors before taking a leap into your arms. if it weren't for your strength, you both would have crashed into the floor painfully. "good morning, vasco," you greet him with a kiss to his forehead. his eyelids flutter at the action before grinning at you back. "morning y/n! i love you!"

𝐉𝐀𝐘 𝐇𝐎𝐍𝐆 ↳˳;; ❝ _______________ᵕ̈೫˚∗

his body language conveys all the emotions he doesn't convey with his voice. your hands entangle with his and squeeze his fingers tight, reassuring him that you'll always be here for him. jay hong gives you a gentle smile before pressing a gentle kiss to your exposed collarbone. it speaks more than whatever flimsy compliments you earn from your 'fanbase'. 'i love you', jay hong expresses.

𝐕𝐈𝐍 𝐉𝐈𝐍 ↳˳;; ❝ _______________ᵕ̈೫˚∗

"i'm a monster," vin jin mutters, stubbornly looking away from you. his big, tacky sunglasses remain perched on his face and the blood boiling in your veins itches to take them off. you know the story, you know the truth, but why is he so stubborn to refuse? "you'll hate me." your hand reaches out to grab his chin, tilting it to meet your loving eyes. you lean in, lips only inches away from his before murmuring. "you aren't a monster. you're my lover - you are my vin jin. forever."

𝐉𝐀𝐊𝐄 𝐊𝐈𝐌 ↳˳;; ❝ bunny boy!jake headcanons (slight nsfw)ᵕ̈೫˚∗ ↳˳;; ❝ oversizedᵕ̈೫˚∗ ↳˳;; ❝ sunsets in two different waysᵕ̈೫˚∗

the streets of big deal are empty, which was to be expected since it was late at night. jake kim bids goodbye to his crew members with a warm smile before slinging his black jacket over his shoulders and striding back home. home, that was a new word to his vocabulary but only added because of you. "what's for dinner?" he sneaks up and cuddles you from behind, making you yelp and hit him on the head. "wash up, jake kim! i can still smell blood on you!" you push him away but not before sneaking a tiny kiss on his cheek. he only pouts and goes off to do so, but not before yelling a quick "dinner smells good, love!"

𝐆𝐔𝐍 𝐏𝐀𝐑𝐊 ↳˳;; ❝ good boy (nsfw)ᵕ̈೫˚∗

"holy shit," gun park breathes out in awe. he tears the sunglasses away from his face, revealing fully black sclera and stunningly white pupils that make him seem like a devil. groaning bodies surrounding the manmade devil and blood is splattered all over the alleys. "fight me!" you scoff and walk away from your own pile of bodies, away from the bloodshed, away from your past, and away from the mysterious handsome man that seems to be enamored by you. "no thanks. i'm done." you dodge a brazillian kick, hissing at the newly-forming bruise on your arm. gun's eyes widen and something within him stirs up, something he hasn't felt in a long, long time. "it wasn't a question, love."

𝐆𝐎𝐎 𝐊𝐈𝐌 ↳˳;; ❝ boredom (nsfw)ᵕ̈೫˚∗

"i'll beat you at mario kart one day!" goo cries out as you dance in victory, throwing him the childish 'L' signs and laughing at the fake-blond. you throw yourself onto the couch and in the process, threw goo off the couch and onto the carpet. "hey!" he yells before pouncing on you, fingers dancing across your sides and you let out high-pitched laughs. "s-stop!" "not until you say i'm the best at mario kart!" goo responds with a twinkle in his eyes as you continue to fill the house with warmth and so much laughter.

𝐉𝐎𝐇𝐀𝐍 𝐒𝐄𝐎𝐍𝐆 ↳˳;; ❝ _______________ᵕ̈೫˚∗

ruffling eden's fur, you couldn't help the smile on your face from the absolutely lovely weather today. johan seong couldn't help but disagree and it was clear by the way his jacket was stubbornly wrapped around you like a burrito - god dog's proud logo drawn on the back. "you're going to get cold," he says, blushing. you only tilt your head back to laugh. "it's spring, johan. i'm not going to get a cold." "you never know," he huffs and stuffs his hands in his pockets. the bright red blush on his ears gives away all his emotions and you give him a teasing push.

𝐒𝐀𝐌𝐔𝐄𝐋 𝐒𝐄𝐎 ↳˳;; ❝ markedᵕ̈೫˚∗

"are you done yet?" samuel scrolls on his phone as he sits on the cheap leather couch. he gives no attention to all the blushing people blatantly staring at him, only to his phone which was filled with numbers and words. "done!" you smile and walk out of the fitting room. samuel immediately puts away his phone and stares at you with adoring eyes. "we're buying it immediately. along with everything else," he smirks at your face. he takes out his thick wallet and walks to the counter, blowing you a kiss in return.

𝐄𝐋𝐈 𝐉𝐀𝐍𝐆 ↳˳;; ❝ hair dyeᵕ̈೫˚∗ ↳˳;; ❝ a hopeless romantic all my lifeᵕ̈೫˚∗

the day you met yenna, it was like an angel descended onto the world. eli jang couldn't help the gentle smile crawling onto his face as he sat next to you on the old carpet. your hands fiddled with yenna's chubby ones, a smile filled with glee on your face like it was permanently engraved there. little murmurs of 'so cute!' were repeated like a mantra and eli couldn't help the pride blossoming in his soul. "love you," he presses a kiss onto your cheek and you blink at him cluelessly. "that was so random, but," you snuggled into him. "love you too."

𝐒𝐈𝐍𝐔 𝐇𝐀𝐍 ↳˳;; ❝ sunsets in two different waysᵕ̈೫˚∗

"come on now," sinu han's arms snaked around your waist and tugged you closer to him. his face naturally and automatically buried into the crook of your collarbone and the edges of his black hair tickled against your skin. you laughed, the carefree noise making sinu's heart race, and he couldn't help his teasing words. "keep laughing like that and i will never let you go!"

#lookism #lookism x reader #webtoon #daniel park #zack lee #euntae lee #vasco #vin jin #jake kim #jay hong #gun park #goo kim #johan seong #samuel seo #eli jang #sinu han

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hedgehog-university-au · 6 months ago

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Vector: Yeah all the guys on my floor are basically like my kids, it's funny too I'm old enough I could just adopt them lol.

Vector: ✨💡✨

*One hour and a spontaneous shopping trip later* *knocks on Espio's door*

Espio: the heck are you talking about but also yes

They confuse the other students so much because now Espio and Charmy (and the others on the floor to certain extent) just randomly call Vector "Father" or "Dad" and he happily responds with "SON!" and gives them a big hug.

So story time: my IRL bestie ( @sparkles-rule-4eva) and I and some friends were talking about adoption, and joking that since Sparkles had just turned 21, she could adopt someone who was 17. And then we remembered our freshman friend J who was 17. So we were like, "Why don't you adopt J?"

So we planned this whole thing out, and Sparkles got this jar of baby food, and we all traipsed down to the student center when J was there and she dramatically "proposed" to him with the baby food jar and asked him to be her son. And it's been like a year and whenever they see each other he's like, "Mother!" and she goes "Son!" And it's absolutely hilarious.

And so me thinking how funny and cute that would be with Vector and Espio basically ended up being the inspiration for HUAU.

#pardon how bad my sketches are I just needed to get it out here #i can't decide whether it's better if it happens right before or right after The Incident™#because either way it makes it both cuter and funnier #chaotix hall #vector the crocodile #espio the chameleon #charmy bee #knuckles the echidna #mighty the armadillo #ray the flying squirrel #also i totally think Mighty is a photographer and gets all the best moments of the year recorded #vector and espio #team chaotix #family chaotix #hedgehog university au #huau #lore #art

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randall-lloyd · 6 months ago

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Warning: Rudy gets VERY sappy and a lot of people are abt to be tagged n told how radical they are IM SORRY THAT YOURE GETTING A STUPID NOTIF LIKE THIS

So the past.... Month. Has been very eventful. Coping with a rough break up, work being hard. I'm almost 21 I kinda figured it'd be rough being in my 20s. I really was expecting it to be the end of the world, but then I made a really good choice.

I joined a few discord servers over this month, and I can't begin to explain just how wonderful that's been for my mental health.

I've made so many new beautiful friends who just mean the world to me, and those new friends along with old friends and my beautiful angel wife who's stuck with me while we both heal, it's just nice.

I wanna say a few words [or a lot words. I'm a yapper] and I jus wanna really detail my appreciation for the following people.

@your-pal-smoochins, my perfect angel wife. You and I have had a lot of things against us. You've been such an amazing support system through these past couple years and I don't tell you enough just how much I love and appreciate everything you do for me. You lift me up when I really need it and I've never felt more loved than when you've been by my side. Thanks for being my rock, my sun moon and stars, and just thank you for being mine. You do so much more than you give yourself credit for, having escaped the situation you were in and going to college. You're so strong, and you're my beautiful angel forever.

@carbonateddelusion Rox! You were one of the first friends I made when everything got locked down and my first memory of you was drawing some of my guys. I dunno if you know but those gifts are still in my phone. I look at those and your newer stuff and I'm just beyond amazed at your progress. You've been a really amazing friend and I love you, man. You really rock, rox [yes that was on purpose]

@toondamien Damien!! one of my very first tumblr friends and the guy who lets me use his oc for my story stuff! You're a little older than me, and as such you've kinda been a role model to me. I still look up to you [metaphorically, hehe] and I'm glad you're my No. 1 DSAF mutual. You're great, dude.

@springlucked Spring. Though we only started talking recently, you are still someone I consider a dear friend. Your fics got me out of some really bad art blocks and my really low days. While Dearly Detested makes me cry and fills me with just the right amount of emotions to break a tree in half, you are so awesome. Your writing is so good and you're so humble when you get gift art from people regarding your fics. You are like a slightly bothersome little sister and for that I love you, ya lil punk.

@dexabite Dex Dane Dexabite Freakabite Miller Jekyll Jade [not real name. obviously] my sworn enemy /j. Your art rocks. Your art inspired a lot of my more detailed pieces and your character design stuff actually made me wanna branch out more not just with character design, but also poses and colors! You're an inspiration to this guy who mainly draws that dumb orange boy and ily /p

@igottoo MJ!! Like if I was a second person! You rock dude. Your art? slaps. Your animation? slaps. Your insane jokes? Slaps. you unintentionally gave me a pose reference that made me leap out of my comfort zone and yknow what? People loved it!! And thats because you're so cool! We scarily have a lot in common so the reasonable assumption is we are in fact the same guy [silly] but i love you to BITS /p. My lagomorphed brethren and the guy I'll be sending my Dave doodles to before showing the public. You're a bro, dawg. As the No. 1 Old Sport fan I'm VERY glad I'm best pals with THE No. 1 Dave Miller fan.

thank you all for being my friends. You guys make my heart full and make me wanna keep working towards being a good person

#lloyds meowing #lloyds art #warning. So So Sappy. Its gross and sappy and lovey.

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melissa-titanium · 11 months ago

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what are ur guys md age headcanons . i see them a bit younger now but my initial ones before i really. knew wtf was happening in the show were like;

uzi ; 21. she's 21. okay? okay. glad we're on the same page. n ; 23 is my favorite number so he's 23. (maybe 16 at the mansion?) v ; 22 v gives me middle child energy. (maybe 17 at the mansion?) j ; 20 j is the youngest. (maybe 15 at the mansion?) cyn ; ??? (10-13 at the mansion) tessa ; well. tessa's fucking dead but. okay. let me explain why the alphabet gang's ages are fucked up. v was the oldest at the mansion. i think a year or two passed during v's error 606 state, which kind of. put her in a stasis and she didn't age mentally or physically, allowing n and j to "catch up" to her in a sense, physically and mentally. for my own sanity; v went down first. j went down second. n went down last, but i think he was the first to be revived back into an actual disassembly drone body rather than staying as a solver drone, making him the first of the alphabet trio to be "reborn," leaving him to be older than both the other two. v and j during the destruction of earth just fight as solver drones while n backs them up as a fully fledged dd. v is recreated like a year later, and j is refurbished 2 years after v, right before they head out to copper-9. this makes it so when they arrive at copper nine (i think the trip took about a year) uzi was 2, j was 1, n was 4 and v was 3. okay. im done khan ; mid 40s (44?) nori ; mid 40s (46?) but older than khan, i think she & khan had uzi relatively young because of the short span of time between her surfacing after the core collapse & the dispatching of the dds. also there's no way she was the same age as uzi when we see her alive. yeva ; two or three years older than nori (48?) yeva's husband (alexei) ; year younger than yeva (47?) doll ; 26 ( okay i genuinely cant explain this one. i know realistically doll would be the same age or hell even YOUNGER than uzi & it doesnt match up with the timelines that i made up in my head but. bbut she's the older cousin. okay? okay. this is the first and only age that i can't explain don't worry i've just had the age 26 so fucking solid in my head i literally can't think of any other age.) doll was held back in school after her parents died, so essentially she's stuck at uzi & lizzy & thad's . "grade" level despite being much older. lizzy ; 23 thad ; 23 (they're twins but maybe thad's younger?)

#mel roars #murder drones

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stargazer-sims · 14 days ago

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Journal Entry #21

previous // next // story index

__________

Yuri

Hello everyone. Yuri here.

Yet again, I find myself recording a journal entry from my bed. Today’s been a lot, and I'm utterly worn out. I spent a good portion of the day at the hospital, but I’m thankfully resting at home now and I’m feeling a little better than I was earlier.

I’ll tell you all about today’s ordeal in a minute, but first things first. Look at my beautiful birthday present from Victor. Isn't it lovely?

The first time I saw this bracelet was last year, a week or so before Christmas. Victor and I had been doing some errands in town and on our way back home we’d stopped to look in the window of a jewellery shop simply because all the glittering objects on display had caught my eye. Victor teased me about my not-so-secret love of sparkly things, but he seemed content enough to stand with his arms around me, listening as I spun out my fantasy of owning something with diamonds on it some day.

Then, in the back corner of the window display, he’d spotted this bracelet and pointed it out to me.

“Look,” he’d said. “A snowflake. I think that one would suit you.”

The tiny turquoise-coloured stones adorning each of the snowflake's six points might've been real blue tourmaline, but the small card that displayed the bracelet's price told me straight away that the clear stone in the centre of the snowflake wasn’t a real diamond. That didn’t matter to me, however. There was something about it that appealed to me. It was so delicate and pretty, and it made me think of clear afternoons on the mountain, all blue and silver and shining.

Blue and silver.

It wasn’t just the mountain that showed off those colours so magnificently. I’d looked up at Victor who was smiling with his whole face, blue eyes bright and alert. The evening breeze was tousling his prematurely silver hair, making it stick out in random directions. He’d lost his hat somewhere, and I don’t think he even noticed.

“You could give it to me for my birthday,” I said.

He offered me an amused look. “Your birthday’s like, more than nine months away. How am I supposed to remember?”

“You’ll remember. Just think about what brought us together.”

“Snowboarding?”

“You can’t have snowboarding without snow, can you?" I said. "Millions of snowflakes.”

“Oh! Yeah!" he’d said cheerfully. “Thanks. I can totally remember it like that.”

And he had remembered. Lying in bed on the morning of my birthday as Victor carefully fastened my new bracelet around my wrist, I couldn’t stop smiling. I was pleased about the bracelet, but what made me even more happy was the fact that Victor had made the effort not to forget.

Evidently, not everyone is as impressed by my bracelet as I am. When Seiji and Takahiro were here for my birthday dinner party a few days ago, they both made fun of Victor for buying me jewellery, and they said the pendant looks more like a flower than a snowflake. Seiji’s girlfriend Chiharu thinks it's pretty, but she apologetically told me that she also thinks it’s a women’s bracelet. I don’t care. It’s exactly what I wanted and I got it from someone who loves me, so I think it’s perfect.

I know it’s not practical to wear every day, but honestly, I never want to take it off.

On the afternoon of my birthday, Victor and I went to Hanamigawa, which is down in the valley. The leaves are fantastically vibrant this time of year, and I love looking at them. We ate sandwiches and fruit while sitting under the colourful canopy of a maple tree, and then we just wandered around the park for a while, admiring everything.

In the evening, we made our way to our old neighbourhood, Komatsu, and went to a karaoke lounge. I'm sorry to say we haven’t improved much since the last time we did it. We’re both still terrible at karaoke, but it was a lot of fun.

True to his word, Victor bought me a drink while we were at the karaoke lounge. He doesn’t drink alcohol, so he had some sort of carbonated juice, but I had a cocktail called Japanese Breakfast that contained whiskey and yuzu juice, among other things. I don’t know why it’s called that because no one I know would have whiskey at breakfast, but incongruous name notwithstanding, it tasted really good. It did upset my stomach a little, but I didn’t tell Victor because I didn’t want to worry him. It wasn’t that bad and I felt fine the next day, so I’m calling it a win.

I cannot, however, put today in the win column.

No, that’s not entirely true. I think I can put today in the win column, but what I had to go through to get there makes it feel less like a win than it should.

If you haven’t already guessed, the hospital isn’t my favourite place, and doctors, nurses and technicians are not my favourite people. Being chronically ill is emotionally exhausting, and sometimes I get frustrated and upset and angry about it. Today was a day when I felt more upset than frustrated or angry. I didn’t want to go for another round of tests, and I didn’t want to see my doctor, as much as I like her as a person.

Thank goodness for Victor. I was so grateful to have him with me today. He kept me from falling apart completely.

By the time we got to the hospital, I was already feeling weak and unwell because I'd only been allowed to drink clear fluids like water, cranberry juice and soup broth the previous day. To be fair, it doesn't take much food to sustain me, but I suppose my body has gotten used to bigger quantities of food than is typical for me during the summer. The absence of something solid in my stomach was making me queasy. On top of that, I had to drink a horrible-tasting, chalky-textured solution the doctor told us to get from the pharmacy. A patient's body has to be as empty as possible for the gastrointestinal imaging test, and the solution is meant to help with that. I can assure you, last night was not a fun time.

And then there was the sedation. Apparently, some people choose not to be sedated, but as much as I dislike sedation, I can't imagine being wide awake for the entire procedure. Victor and I were waiting in a small room when a nurse came around with a whole collection of needles. Okay… it was only two needles, but I was so distressed that it might as well have been twenty. I hate needles, particularly the ones with sedatives in them.

I was curled up and fully prepared to engage in some dramatic self-pity, but it was clear that Victor was determined not to let me go there.

“You’d better not be sulking,” he said “This is a no sulking zone, you know.”

“I don’t care,” I said. “This merits sulking.”

“It’s not super fun, but it’s also not totally bad,” he said. “There’s got to be one good thing about it.”

“Really? Name one.”

“I’ve got two. It’s nice and warm in here, and you don’t have to wait alone.”

“About that,” I said. “They don’t usually let you come this far with me. What did you say to that nurse to let you in here?”

Victor had the grace to look embarrassed. “I might’ve lied a little bit,“ he said. "I, uh… told her that I’m your husband.”

“And she believed you?”

“No idea, but she didn’t question it,” he said. “If anyone asks, we’ve got our matching rings to show them, right? It’s not like they’re going to want actual proof or anything.”

“You’re impossible,” I said.

He grinned at me. “I know.”

Trying to distract myself, I asked. “If I really was your husband, whose family name would I have? Would you take mine, or would I take yours?”

“I’d definitely take yours. 'Yuri Nelson’ sounds like a character in a lo budget action film. You know, one with really bad writing and lots of B-list actors. He'd be the anti-hero with some weird backstory, and he'd be a chain smoker with an aversion to shaving."

I could picture that character, actually. Yuri Nelson was a name that probably would suit him. Maybe his backstory would be that he's half Russian and half Amrican; a Russian Yuri instead of a Japanese one. Perhaps his mother was a Russian spy, and he'd be on some sort of mission related to that. It sounded exactly like the sort of film Victor would watch.

"Okay." I smiled, "You're right, but do you think 'Victor Okamoto’ sounds better?”

He laughed. “Okay, no. Maybe slightly better, but it kind of has anime vibes."

"Yes, I can see that. A sports anime, perhaps."

"I guess we’ll just have to be a modern married couple," he said. "We'll have to keep our own names.”

“But then, how would everyone know we were married?”

“I’m sure they’d figure it out,” he said. “Some people already think we’re married anyway. My boss does, and she’s only seen us together a handful of times. Incidentally, she thinks you’re cute.”

“She does? Is that appropriate?” I queried.

“Pretty sure it’s fine. I took it as a compliment when she came up to me after you dropped me off one morning and said, 'your husband is really cute’. And I mean, she’s not wrong.”

I was blushing. “You didn’t correct her?”

“You want to hear some useless trivia you didn’t ask for?” he said. “If we were in Canada, technically you would be my husband. When you live together with your partner for at least a year, the law considers you spouses. So, if we were in my country, I could call you my husband and it wouldn’t even be wrong.”

“Maybe instead of going to Brazil, we should just go to Canada,” I mused.

“No reason we can’t do both," he replied. "I’m sure if we went home, Mom would let us stay at her place.”

“Let’s think about it, okay?” I said. “I’d like to see where you’re from.”

“Okay,” he agreed.

By that point, the sedative was taking hold. I was starting to feel drowsy, so I laid down, and Victor tucked the thin hospital blanket around me. After that, everything was blur for a while.

In all honesty, I’m glad I don’t remember most of it because I’m reasonably certain it isn’t something I’d enjoy thinking about later. I do recall a couple of people moving me off the bed and onto a gurney, and Victor trying to hold onto my hand as he followed us out the door. I also remember being cold, but I’m frequently cold, so maybe that’s not particularly remarkable.

I must’ve had a moment of lucidity out in the corridor as well, because I recall we stopped moving for a minute. My doctor was there. Her name is Espérance Kasongo, and coincidentally she’s a Canadian like Victor. She speaks in a rich contralto and has a pleasantly unusual accent, so her voice is difficult to mistake for anyone else’s.

"I’m sorry, Mr. Nelson. This is as far as you can go with him,” I heard her telling Victor. “Don’t worry. We’ll have him back to you in about an hour, safe and sound. You can sit in the waiting area for now, and someone will come fetch you when we’re all done.”

Victor said something to her that I didn’t understand, and then, “Can I kiss him?”

Dr. Kasongo laughed. “Go on. Quickly.”

Victor brushed back my hair and kissed me softly on the forehead. “I love you, Yuri. See you in an hour or so.”

“Love you,” I murmured. I was so out of it, I don’t even know if I said it in Japanese or English. I felt like I was floating. In my opinion, the only thing that’s good about being sedated is that I’m never aware enough to be anxious or scared about what’s coming next.

What I presume was an hour or so later, I was unhappily awake and aware of everything. They’d returned me to the same little room I’d been in before, or one that looked just like it. It was warm, much to my satisfaction, but it still smelled like disinfectant and was far too bright.

For what originally seemed to me like an inexplicable reason, Victor was kneeling on the floor beside the bed. It took me several seconds to figure out that it put him exactly on my eye level, and that I didn’t have to move at all in order to look directly at him.

“Hey,” I said. My mouth was dry and my voice sounded oddly scratchy to me.

If Victor noticed, he didn’t say. He looked relieved to see me awake. "Hey,” he said. “There’s my brave boy. The nurse said you did great. How are you feeling?”

I was tired, my entire lower abdominal area ached dully, and the aftereffects of the sedation were making me feel nauseous. I couldn’t form enough words to explain all of that, so I went with, “Awful.”

“I guess we knew that’s what the answer was going to be, didn’t we?”

“Yeah.” I really tried not to cry, but for some reason I'm always unreasonably emotional when I'm coming out of sedation, and the whole situation was too much. At that moment, i wanted nothing more than the comforting familiarity of my room, my hot water bottle, and Victor holding me close until i was able to fall asleep. “Sorry I’m such a mess.”

“It’s okay,” Victor said. “You’re allowed to be a mess.”

“Can we go home? I just want to go home.”

He touched my face gently. “We will. As soon as they say you can go, I’ll take you home.”

“Please, I want to go home now.” I repeated through tears, knowing even as I said it that I’d have to wait. “I don’t like it here. I want to be in my own bed. Please…”

“Shh… shhh…” Victor made soft hushing sounds and kept stroking my cheek with his thumb. “Listen to me, love. I know you feel miserable and you want to go home. I promise I’ll take you as soon as I’m allowed, but we’ve got to stay here for now, okay?“

"I don’t want to.”

“I know you don’t, but you have to. The nurses have to be satisfied it’s safe for you to get up and leave,” he said. “It’ll only be for a little while, and then we can go home and you can rest in your own bed.”

“Please stay with me.”

“Of course I’m going to stay with you. Do you want me to hold you?”

I sniffled loudly, humiliated by my weakness and tears, and yet feeling completely unable to help myself. “Yes, please.”

He climbed onto the bed with me and gathered me into his arms. He rubbed my back and whispered comforting nonsense against the top of my head until I eventually stopped crying.

“Better?” he asked, once I’d finally gotten my breathing under control.

“Not really, but thank you.”

“What else can I do?“ he asked.

"Nothing,” I said. “Just let’s stay this way a bit longer.”

“Is your belly hurting really bad?”

“No, not really badly. It’s a little tender, that’s all. But, I feel sick, and… I don’t know. I hate everything about this.”

“I wish you didn’t have to go through any of it,” he said. “If I could magically fix everything for you, you know I would.”

“I know,” I said. I leaned into him and rested my head on his shoulder. “I love you for that.”

“I love you. Full stop,” he said. “For better or worse.”

“In sickness and in health?”

He laughed. “Is this a hospital or a wedding chapel?”

The sound I made was somewhere between a chuckle and a groan. “Ohh… Victor, don’t. If you make me laugh, I might throw up.”

“We don’t want you doing that,” he said. “It’d ruin our surprise wedding.”

“I… I mean it. Don’t…”

“Hey,” he said, suddenly serious again. “Deep breaths. Deep as you can, okay? In through your nose, and out through your mouth. Remember how I taught you?”

“Y-yes.”

“Good. I’ll do it with you. Ready?”

I nodded.

He helped me lie down again, and he snuggled next to me. The two of us barely fit on the narrow bed together, but we made it work. Victor quietly coached me through a breathing exercise which, even if it didn’t fix everything, certainly helped me feel more comfortable and settled.

Victor has been helping me use breathing exercises and other pain management methods ever since we started living together, and it's had a consistently positive impact on me. He told me that he learned all those techniques as part of a non-medical pain management course he’d taken in college for his diploma in Health and Wellness. When we met, he was already more than halfway through the two-year program of study.

Apparently, Victor really has been keeping up all his acquired skills by practising on me, in between his job as a fitness trainer back in Canada and his job as a personal wellness coach at the fitness centre here. He joked a while ago about me being his favourite health and wellness project, but when I stop to think about that, it’s likely more factual than funny. The irony of our situation was not lost on me this morning, as once again I found myself marvelling at how the universe must’ve been perfectly aligned to bring us together.

I don’t remember falling asleep, but I must’ve dozed off for a while, because when I opened my eyes again I was alone in the bed, and Victor was in the chair next to it.

"We keep meeting like this,” he said, when he noticed that I was awake and trying to sit up.

I smiled, glad to have succeeded in pushing myself more or less upright without help. I took a moment to assess, and realized I felt somewhat less terrible than before. “Obviously it’s our destiny.”

“Obviously.” He grinned. “Looks like you’re coming around. The nurse was here a little while ago and she told me you could get up and put your clothes on when you woke up. She said Dr. Kasongo is going to come in and talk to us for a minute, and then I can take you home. Sound good?”

“Sounds wonderful,” I said.

“Need help getting dressed?”

“No, thanks. I think I can manage.”

I couldn't wait to be rid of the hospital gown, and didn't waste any time pulling on my underpants, t-shirt, hoodie and jeans. In the end, the only thing I couldn’t do by myself was to put on my socks and trainers. Victor did that for me, and then he retrieved my glasses case and my bracelet from the pocket of my coat. I put on my glasses, and he helped me with my bracelet.

By the time Dr. Kasongo arrived, I was fully dressed except for my coat, and Victor and I were once again trying to occupy a piece of furniture that was only designed for one person.

“You look like you’re ready to leave us, Yuri,” Dr. Kasongo commented as she crossed the room. “Ready to make your escape from our hall of torments.”

“I hope you don’t take it personally,” I said.

She smiled. “I assure you, I don’t. We do some terrible things to you. I would wish to run away from me, too.”

“It’s not you. Just the procedure.”

“Don’t worry. I understand,” she said. “Now, I know you’ve got a consultation scheduled with me next week to review all your test results, but I wanted to see you quickly before you left today.”

Beside me, Victor tensed a little. “It’s not bad news, is it?”

“Not at all,” the doctor said. “It’s quite good, as a matter of fact.”

“What is it?” I asked.

“I’ll get straight to it,” she said. “As you likely know, we haven’t got all the results of your bloodwork, biological samples and antibody tests back yet, but on a preliminary basis, I can say your imaging looked very good today. I understand you told the intake nurse that you’ve had very few symptoms for over a month now?”

“About three months, actually” I said. “Victor?”

“Yeah,” he said. “Since just before we moved, so maybe like, a little over four months.”

“Excellent,” said Dr. Kasongo. “That’s very good. I’m confident you’re in a period of clinical remission at the moment. We’ll confirm it with your test results, but I’m happy to make that diagnosis now.”

“What does that mean, exactly?” Victor asked. “Is this a long-term thing now, or…?”

“Unfortunately, we can’t predict how long a remission will last,” Dr. Kasongo said. “Some patients can remain symptom-free for very long periods of time. Others relapse after a short time.” She shifted her gaze back to me. “Yuri, the best things you can do are to keep following your food and exercise plan the way you’ve been doing, take your medications, have a stable sleep schedule, and manage your stress. Oh, and continue working with your personal wellness coach. I understand he’s exceptional.”

“The very best,” I said.

“Your husband, if I understood correctly.” She winked at us.

“Uhh…” Victor said. “About that.”

Dr. Kasongo looked amused. “Minako told me. Very clever circumvention of the rules, Mr. Nelson.”

“I’m not sure you realize how dangerous it is to encourage him to circumvent the rules, Dr. Kasongo,” I said.

Even when it’s to your advantage?” Victor asked.

“Some rules are flexible enough to be bent without being broken,” Dr. Kasongo remarked. “And who does it harm if we keep the truth among ourselves about this one thing? Mr. Nelson, I will note you and Yuri as spouses in the chart, so you can support him as much as possible when you’re here from now on.”

“Thanks,” Victor said. “And you can call me Victor. Mr. Nelson is my grandfather.”

“Victor,” she repeated. “Well then, Yuri and Victor, I won’t keep you any longer. Go home and rest, and I’ll see you at your appointment at my office next week.”

I went straight to bed when I got home, which probably isn’t a fact that’s going to shock anyone. After a properly long nap in my warm, comfortable bed, I woke up wanting a snack. Victor had planned for that while I was sleeping and had prepared a strawberry smoothie with vanilla-flavoured protein powder, and a small bowl of rice with sweet bell peppers and a few morsels of diced chicken.

Full disclosure, I whined at him until he agreed to feed me the rice bowl. Hearing that, I know you're now likely thinking I’m ridiculously, shamefully spoiled, but you probably didn’t have the day I had. Judge if you want. I’m sure I’ll be back to using my own chopsticks and spoon in the morning.

Afterwards, Victor sat with me and we talked about the future for a while. Our casual mention earlier in the day of travelling to Canada so Victor could see his family had somehow taken hold as a full-fledged idea, and we tentatively began to plan it.

All our joking about being married seems to have taken root a bit, too, although we’re far less attached to that notion than to visiting Victor’s home town of Maple Grove. We don’t need to be married to have everything we need. We’re already fully committed, spirit, mind and body. If everything we’ve already been through together doesn’t prove that, I don’t know what would.

Even with all my personal struggles, I still consider myself fortunate. Not everyone can say they’ve found their soulmate; that one person who fills all the spots in their heart that were empty before, and who willingly opens their own heart to being filled in return. It’s not just about needing someone, but also being needed. It’s about making every experience a shared one.

Every single day, I'm grateful that I’ve found the one who fills up all the space in my heart, who’s seen me at my worst and still thinks I’m the best.

#writing #WAVYrevisited #yuri okamoto #victor nelson #cw chronic illness #cw hospital #sapphire writes

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ktamina · 9 months ago

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09/30/08 - Mick 7 answers your questions!

This is an old interview of Mick (#7) that I found, enjoy!!

Hey, I am like, the UK's number 1 Slipknot fan, and have always wanted to know, what inspired your mask design?

Matthew Fulton- 14

MICK: Nothing. I had my original latex hockey mask way back and then my leather one and I was using those designs and it morphed into what it is now. There isn’t something crazy creative about it.

Hey Mick! I just want to let you know that you are a huge inspiration to me. You were one of the reasons I picked up a guitar, B.C Rich 7 string Warlock as my own first purchase, and got serious about it. My question is, how do you get new ideas for riffs and solos. I've made a couple of my own songs, but I always get stuck trying to make cool catchy riffs or solos. Got any advice?

Jim- 16

MICK: Yes. Don’t over-think it. Just let it happen. Things come out. If you try and plan or force it will sound forced or dishonest. I never try and over-think a direction whatever comes out 1st time I play it comes out. I never spend a ton of time thinking because it sounds forced. If you spend too much time thinking about it, it won’t sound like you. Don’t try and sound like someone else.

How does it feel to be getting back to work with the rest of Slipknot after a 3 year hiatus? Did it feel great knowing you were going to be back behind the mask and in a recording studio once again or was it just the same as it was 3 years ago?

Matt Haynes- 16

MICK: Things are always different when doing a new record. You are a different person than you were years ago. I don’t think in those terms. I just do what I do! But yes it felt good getting back to work.

What has been your scariest nightmare?

Paul Hawkins- 16

MICK: I wouldn’t say I have had a scariest nightmare but it would probably be something that deals with me not having genitals anymore…

If you could play any other role except Rythym/Lead guitarist in the band which would it be?

Bryan Lares

MICK: I wouldn’t.

What was the biggest culture shock you experienced in a foreign country during SK a tour?

Marcelle Andrade- 21

MICK: Being forced to shit into an ornate porcelain hole in the ground in Japan. OR having a warm stream of water tickle my asshole from the bidet in my hotel, also in Japan.

Mick, what advice would u give to young metal musicians trying to get our band noticed without reverting to the typical main stream sound?

Alex Munro- 16

MICK: Music should be honest, it should be an extension if you. You shouldn’t try and achieve a sound. It should just be you and not what you are trying to manufacture. We didn’t pay attention to the trends at the time when we wrote. We did what we felt and that is what you should do. You should play music for you and not to be noticed.

I'm Marina. OK I know that you probably get this question asked a lot by fan-girls but are you single, and can i ask u out on a date if you are :) ?

Marina Spevak- 25

MICK: Send pictures and I will get back to you.

Hi Mick! What Pedals do you use for Before I Forget and Heretic Anthem, and what Guitar would you recommend for a O.K Metal player at good price (like below $400)?

Alex Hayden

MICK: I don’t use pedals on either one of those songs or any pedals of any kind. But if its distortion you are referring to I just have a tube head turned up loud. There isn’t one really so buy used. You can’t get anything new that price worth anything. Look at pawn shops and buy a decent used early to late 90’s Ibanez especially an RG 570.

Hey micl! I'm from Iran. First you should know you've got MANY fans in Iran! Seriously. :D My question is what's the meaning of the tattoo on your arm? The Asian one…

Sohrab Alimardani- 18

MICK: It means hate in Japanese.

What do you think is the meaning of life?

Krista

MICK: Life is without meaning. And we are all totally insignificant in the whole scheme of things.

Just touring with slipknot but be crazy but what is the single most brutal moment you can recall while on tour?

Shawn Jarvis- 15

MICK: Watching a guy die in a police chase about 100 feet in front of me...

#nu metal #slipknot #mick thomson #2000s nu metal #nu metal bands #ktamina

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lemon-russ · 8 months ago

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Not warhammer-

Tw: pet death below cut

My cat of 21 years passed yesterday. She was old enough to drink and I suspected she would have been and smoking a pack a day if she could.

She was very old, obviously, so it's sad but also closure in a way. She wasn't suffering so we chose to feel it out and make her life comfortable as long as she seemed to still be doing ok, but she was tired, and the past month she took a turn for the worse and passed in a fluffy new bed in her favorite spot under the piano. I no longer have to worry about her, I was always worried she might be confused or scared, but till the day she died, she knew exactly when 5:00 was on the dot, AM and PM, and sang the 12 hour alarm song of her people.

Sorry to sadpost but I just want to share her with everyone. She was an awful cat, hated everyone, bit, had a terrible catnip addiction /j, probably made a pact with The Devil (tm)

(I'd catch her looking into the woodstove flames for hours, I assume telling her patron "THIS WAS NOT THE DEAL, RELEASE ME FROM THESE MORTAL CHAINS")

But she was my cat since I was 9 years old and I loved her. I have socks with her face on them somewhere.

Her name was Catapuss (pronounced like platypuss) and she was very pretty and very rude as we should all strive to be

Rest in the hells that you came from Puss, I hope you give your patron a good chomp for holding you to this mortal coil so long ❤️

Putting this song here bc it's about pet death and crying heals the soul

#cw: pet death #cw: cat death #not warhammer #rest in hell you mean old bitch (affectionately I adored her for it)#she had the aura of a washed up hollywood starlett who lived alone and wore feather boas and abused the help #but like since the day we got her

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the-conversation-pod · 11 months ago

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Mixed Nuts, Part 2: Thoughts on Yaoi

And we're back! Japan is churning them out almost faster than we can keep up, so we dedicated a whole grab bag episode to give them the attention they're asking for. Ben, NiNi, Ginny, and Shan talk what's working and what's not in Japanese BL as we discuss Sahara-sensei to Toki-kun, One Room Angel, Perfect Propose, Sukiyanen Kedo Do Yaro Ka, I Want To See Only You and I Became the Star of a BL Drama.

Timestamps

The timestamps will now correspond with chapters on Spotify for easier navigation.

00:00:00 - Welcome 00:01:15 - Grab Bag Part 2: J-BL 00:02:22 - Sahara-sensei to Toki-kun 00:11:29 - One Room Angel 00:18:54 - A Note on MBS Tunku Shower 00:26:01 - Perfect Propose 00:49:27 - Sukiyanen Kedo Do Yaro ka 01:04:44 - I Want To See Only You 01:10:55 - I Became the Main Role of a BL Drama 01:26:16 - Outro

The Conversation Transcripts!

Thanks to the continued efforts of @ginnymoonbeam as transcriber, and @lurkingshan as an editor and proofreader, we are able to bring you transcripts of the episodes.

We will endeavor to make the transcripts available when the episodes launch, and it is our goal to make them available for past episodes (Coming soon thanks to @wen-kexing-apologist). When transcripts are available, we will attach them to the episode post (like this one) and put the transcript behind a Read More cut to cut down on scrolling.

Please send our volunteers your thanks!

00:00:00 - Welcome

NiNi

Welcome to The Conversation About BL, aka The Brown Liquor Podcast.

Ben

And there it is. I’m Ben.

NiNi

I’m NiNi.

Ben

And we’re your drunk Caribbean uncle and auntie here sitting on the porch in the rocking chairs.

NiNi

Four times a year we pop in to talk about what’s going on in the BL world.

Ben

We shoot the shit about stories and all the drama going into them. I review from a queer media lens.

NiNi

And I review from a romance and drama lens.

Ben

So if you like cracked-out takes and really intense emotional analysis…

NiNi

If you like talking about artistry, industry, and the discourse…

Ben

And if you generally just love simping…

NiNi

There is a lot of simping on this podcast…

Ben

We are the show for you!

00:01:15 - Grab Bag Part 2: J-BL

Ben

And we're back. Continuing into Grab Bag episode 2, this time we're going to talk about all the Japanese projects.

We are still with pod team members Ginny and Shan. Say hi, Ginny.

Ginny

Hello.

Ben

Say hi, Shan.

Shan

Hi again.

NiNi

We are here to talk about Japanese BL, Japanese drama, all things Japanese, aka Ben's favorite thing, aka Ginny's starting to become favorite thing, aka Shan's actual favorite thing, aka my I'm gettin’ there thing.

Ben

We will be talking about six shows this week. We're talking about Sahara-sensei to Toki-kun, One Room Angel, Perfect Propose, Although I Love You, and You? aka Sukiyanen Kedo Do Yara ka, I Want to See Only You, and I Became the Main Role of a BL Drama.

NiNi, take us in.

00:02:22 - Sahara-sensei to Toki-kun

NiNi

Let's start with Sahara-sensei, which I did not watch. So, Ben or Shan, who wants to complain about this?

Ben

Well, there's no need for you to watch it, bestie, because it was horrible!

Shan

Horrible!

Ben

Sahara-sensei to Toki-kun is a Japanese BL from MBS through Drama Shower about a juvenile delinquent who falls for a new teacher who seems to pay attention to him, and starts to reform his behaviors as a result of this relationship. But the teacher’s got his own baggage, and then the show makes a goddamn mess of all of this. And we have very many gripes to voice!

[exhales] It was not good. Ginny, did you watch this show?

Ginny

I did.

Ben

I feel like you were less pissed than me and Shan. Is that true?

Ginny

I'm usually less pissed than you and Shan.

Shan

I think it's just a natural state—[NiNi laughs]

NiNi

I don't think anybody could be as pissed as Shan. [Ben and NiNi laugh]

Shan

Right!

Ginny

Scaling for our norms, I think I was about as pissed. I really did not like the show.

Ben

Oh, yes! Go for it, Ginny! Tell it! Kill ‘em. Kill ‘em, bestie!

Ginny

I don't know anything about the source material, but it felt like it was trying to set up two taboo relationships: one teacher student, and one side ship that was sort of step-siblings. And then it completely whiffed both of those and decided, bizarrely, to deal with the taboo nature, particularly the main relationship, as if it simply isn't a taboo.

No one cared! No one cared that this teacher and student were having a romance. It was simply not addressed, or didn't seem to be a concern to anybody. It made the show baffling to follow because it was like they lived in this alternate universe where that doesn't matter, but other things like homophobia do matter—but only sometimes. It was not coherent.

I really enjoyed Toki, the juvenile delinquent. He was delightful. His actor was really fun, and that's really what kept me watching the show for however many episodes it was—six, eight, ten? Eight. That's what kept me watching the show for eight episodes, even though by about the midpoint, it really felt like it was not doing or saying anything interesting.

Ben

Shan, go in and let have.

Shan

Okay, I will! This show is fucking infuriating. I am still so mad every time I think about it.

Ben

[laughs] I can hear it in her voice.

Shan

Ugh! Here's the thing with the teacher student trope: it can be done well. It has been done well. The way that you do this trope well is that you take that relationship seriously. You have to care in the story that there is a power dynamic here, that a teacher has a role to play and a job to do with regard to their students, that they are an adult who is meant to be trusted to guide their students to good life choices, to their own social/emotional wellbeing, to care about their futures, to care about their education. This show just utterly, utterly failed on that front, and it makes the teacher character here completely irredeemable and unbelievable as an education professional. At no point did this show take its own concept seriously. It wanted us to engage with this romance as if this was just a normal teen love story between a teenage boy and a slightly older boy. There was no reckoning with the fact that this was his teacher.

The biggest sin, among many, was that we were shown through the story that Toki was not actually helped by this relationship with Sahara-sensei. We were shown that Toki—because of his feelings for his teacher, and because of his desire to impress this prospective love interest—that he made choices that were harmful to him. That he did not seek help when he was being bullied. That he did not take his education and his assignment seriously because he was too focused on this crush. We began the show with the notion that he was a juvenile delinquent who needed support and mentorship. He's a good kid, a nice kid, a kind kid, and he just needed some guidance. But he didn't get any fucking guidance from this teacher.

Instead, what he got was a distraction and an extraordinarily self-centered adult who really only cared about what he was getting—the confidence boost that he was getting—out of this relationship with his student. Did not look out for this kid, did not help him focus on his studies, did not help him prepare for his future, and did not help him in any meaningful way with the problems that he was experiencing at school.

This show literally ended with Toki [volume increases] graduating, walking out of the school building, spotting Sahara, and chucking his diploma into the fucking bushes so that he could run and kiss his boyfriend, because school's over now and he doesn't have to care about appearances anymore. I actually could not fucking believe that. And the wildest part of all of this is that the show doesn't seem to have any awareness about it. This is not a narrative about a student getting so obsessed with a teacher that he loses his way. This is just being presented as a straightforward, happy and positive romance that we're supposed to root for. It is one of the most baffling things I have ever fucking seen.

NiNi

Tell ‘em why you mad, son! Tell ‘em why you mad! [laughs]

Ben

Bestie, everything you said was true and correct. I will add further that this show does not get the benefit of the doubt of being BL to cop out about a lot of this because of the backstory they give on Sahara and Nekoto—his junior in high school, now fellow teacher. The failure of their relationship is grounded in the realities of homophobia and taboo, so there's no way to approach the Sahara-Toki relationship under the guise of “any m/m attraction is fine because BL,” because the show draws attention to the social and political realities of queerness.

And it's especially frustrating because Sahara actually gives decent guidance to another student: the Todo character, who is playing injured as a basketball player. Sahara talks him down from going into a match that he shouldn't because he's hurt in a way that I thought was really excellent from an educator, because he doesn't tell the kid, “You shouldn't play.” He asked the kid pointed questions, making the kid self-introspect and recognize for himself that he should not play. Which only exacerbates the issues that Shan eloquently highlighted just now about how fucked up this whole thing is, because he does not bring that same awareness to the relationship he has with Toki. It is such a weird experience with this show and I really hated it.

Ginny

I think that about covers it. It just feels like it didn't know what it was trying to do, and it did everything badly.

NiNi

I think that's an excellent tagline. [Ben laughs] So, those of you who watched it, it's time to rate.

Shan, you first.

Shan

I gave it a 3, and I think reflecting in this moment, I want to lower it to a 2. I'm giving it a 2.

Ben

I agree. Go ahead. Ginny?

Ginny

Oh man, so I give it a 6.5. [Ben hmms] I simply don't finish shows that I'm gonna rate lower than a 4 or a 5. On the surface level, there were moments that I really enjoyed about this. As I said, I did like the performance of the Toki character in particular, so I gave it some credit for that.

Ben

I agree with Shan. I originally gave this show a 4. I'm lowering it to a 3. [Ben and Shan laugh]

Shan

Let's talk about it again in a couple of months, see where we land.

Ben

I'm giving the show a 3.5 from The Conversation. That is not how the math works, but that's what I'm giving it.

Shan

Feels right.

00:11:29 - One Room Angel

NiNi

Moving on to our next show, let's talk One Room Angel.

Ben, what is One Room Angel about?

Ben

One Room Angel is a story about a depressed man who ends up hanging out with an angel for a few weeks, it feels like, and starts to maybe come out of his depressive spiral as a result, which ends up with some really sad over- and undertones from what we learn about the angel character.

This is a kind of difficult show to talk about from a BL perspective, because I don't really think it's a BL. This wasn't really a romance. From my understanding, the angel character is significantly younger in the source material, and I get why they maybe chose not to go that direction. Shan had more complex thoughts, I think, than I did about the genre assignment of this show.

Shan

I like this show. I just want to say that upfront, I think it's a really beautiful show, a really thought-provoking show. I think it has some really interesting things to say about depression and self worth and finding meaning and life and the will to live. I liked all of its themes. I liked the characters.

I do think that it feels incomplete as a narrative, and it feels like there was supposed to be a romance arc here that got removed. I don't know if that's true, I haven't read the source material, but that's kind of how it felt upon watching it. I don't think it's a BL. There's no romance here. There's what feels more like a platonic friendship to me between Koki and the Angel.

This show has some of the most beautiful cinematography that we've seen in Drama Shower. Some of the visual imagery is really striking, and I still think about it off and on. I like the way that they constructed Koki as this character who is kind of downtrodden, but kind at his core. He's just been through some shit, he's had a hard life. And I like that, I like that he was someone who was very easy to sympathize with. The Angel was a good foil for him. He would come at him in ways that would provoke him and give him some spark, make him feel a little bit alive again, which was what was missing and what was so important.

I think the show wasn't that strong on unpacking the mystery of the Angel and who he had been in his life, and connecting that back to Koki. I think there were a few different threads here and they didn't all come together seamlessly, but I did really like the core story of healing.

I do have feelings about this tendency we're seeing recently in the MBS Drama Shower shows of sprinkling in some non-BLs in the lineup. This is a dedicated time slot that is explicitly meant to be for BL shows, and there have been a couple now in the lineup that don't really fit that bill, and so I do kind of regret that we got this show as part of the Drama Shower lineup instead of another BL. But I'm glad we got the show. I like it a lot. I think it has some good things to offer.

Ben

Ginny, were you able to watch this show?

Ginny

I was! In the interest of precision, because we're talking about it not being a romance, which I do kind of agree with. They do have a conversation about being boyfriends, and they have this cute little beach date and stuff, but it feels like something that's sort of tacked on to make it fit in the BL space. It doesn't feel like it's actually part of their story. The connection that grows between them is, but the romance was not really played out. So even though they kind of give it lip service, it doesn't feel like it's there, which is why we're all saying it's not a romance. I think my favorite thing about the show was the Koki character.

Ben

This is Ginny's favorite character type: the hot mess. [Ginny and Shan laugh]

Ginny

I love a hot mess. I do. He's older, which I also like. He's not especially pretty, which is a nice change of pace. And he's just so down in it and can't seem to get himself out. I do like the story of him sort of getting forced roommate Angel therapy, basically. So yeah, I enjoyed it. I didn't deeply love it.

For the themes that it was getting into, it could have gone deeper. It's got some really dark material in both of the characters' backstories, and it didn't feel to me like it really followed through strongly enough on the resolutions to those things. But it also wasn't a total miss.

Ben

I ended up feeling really complicated about this show. I feel like I was very unfairly comparing it to Eternal Yesterday a lot, and because it wasn't BL I was a little bit frustrated that this time slot was going into non-BL content. Like, it feels like the original thing was BL, and they decided in their adaptation not to lean into the potential romance between an adult and a high school student. A totally fine adaptation choice, but it's like, why adapt this work then? It doesn't exactly work for me as a result.

I really liked the Angel character. I liked how sassy he was, and pushy he was about stuff. Nishimura Takuya; loved the way he played the Angel character. I really liked the aesthetic with his all-white outfit the whole time. I really liked the effort that the costuming department put into his wings. That was not easy, particularly on the budget that Drama Shower was clearly working on. I thought they got a lot of good work out of the animatronics of his wings. I really wish we had gotten more about Koki's yakuza based trauma. There's an allusion to this with the brother that feels a bit incomplete for me. Or the stuff with his mom, Arisa.

There's like a weird ambiguity with the end of this too, where some of the viewers thought that Koki also died at the end, tragically.

Ginny

What?

Shan

Wait, what? I don't think—he didn't die.

Ben

I didn't think he died, but apparently that was one of the reads.

Shan

Fascinating.

Ginny

Huh.

Shan

That didn't occur to me, but you can't really argue with it in a show that leaves things this unfinished.

Ben

Exactly, and that's why I was a little unsettled by it towards the end, because I'm like, “Well, I can't refute that, but also damn!” [Shan laughs] “Y'all killed this man so they could fuck? Shit!”

Okay. [Ginny laughs]

Shan

[laughs] Oh boy, we better wrap it up there.

Ben

So let's rate this experience. Ginny?

Ginny

I gave it a 7. Not bad for what it was. Not great.

Ben

Shan?

Shan

I gave it an 8. I liked some of what it was trying to do, but I don't think it fully got there on all of its storylines or really on its themes.

Ben

I gave it an 8 originally. I think I'm going to downgrade it to a 7.5, so we'll give it a 7.5 from The Conversation.

00:18:54 - A Note on MBS Tunku Shower

Ben

Let's discuss Drama Shower before we move to the other projects. As of this recording, we are almost at the end of My Strawberry Film, the last outing from Drama Shower Season 2, and currently MBS has not renewed the Drama Shower time slot for additional projects. They may renew this in the future, but let's talk on the podcast how we feel about Drama Shower after almost 11 projects, the role this time slot has fulfilled, and our complex reactions to all of the projects.

Ginny

I like that they did so many different kinds of things. Almost none of the Drama Shower shows are favorites of mine. There are a lot that I quite liked, and a few that I could see rewatching, but I do appreciate the commitment to do and try a bunch of different things. I hope that something like it gets renewed or gets put in place because, as we discussed a little bit last time talking about genre, I want to see experimental BL. I want to see different ideas and frameworks being explored, even ones that we hated like Sahara-sensei and Toki-kun. I would rather they make a bag of shows that includes a terrible one than just crank out the same reliable favorites, so. While I don't love most of the individual shows, I feel positively about the project.

Ben

Shan, how are you feeling?

Shan

I'm sad at the prospect that Drama Shower might not continue. It did produce one of my all time favorite BLs—Eternal Yesterday—and while I don't always love the shows, I love that we can rely on a steady progression of shows being released. When one show ends, we know the next is coming very soon. Japanese media can feel uncertain. We often don't find out about shows until right before they air. We often find out about a show, but then find out that it's not accessible to us, and we can't watch it. It's been nice to have kind of a steady, reliable place where we know we could go to find a Japanese BL, and I like how, you know, like Ginny said, how experimental it's been. They're doing a lot of different types of shows, a lot of different tones and styles.

A lot of them have been not my favorites. Maybe, like, mid to bad, but there have been a few real gems in this lineup. Not only Eternal Yesterday, but also shows like Jack o’ Frost and Tokyo in April is… These are shows that stuck with me, that I really enjoyed the watch experience for, and I hope that even if Drama Shower as a dedicated time slot doesn't come back, that MBS will keep churning out these shows and releasing them at a steady clip because I think that they are pretty solid. I really like this format for Japan, where they do these six- to eight-episode shows. These tight contained stories. Have a pretty clear sense of what they want to do most of the time, with some exceptions. And I'd like to see that continue.

We've had this kind of recent boom of Japanese BL. And I don't want that to go away. I want them to keep producing shows and I want to always have a Japanese BL airing, ideally. So yeah, I'm hopeful that if not this exact project, that something will come back, that we will continue to get shows that are interesting and a fun watch.

Ben

I'm also a bit sad that we might be losing Drama Shower because I really like what Azuma Kaoru has talked about with it from the little bits of translation we've gotten. They have a real commitment to BL as a genre and showcasing what BL can be. I like the Drama Shower has had two original projects both times it's run. Jack o’ Frost was original and My Strawberry Film is original, and whether or not we end up deciding that these projects were especially good or not, I actually think it's really healthy for BL as a genre to not be as tied to the developmental format where we basically just raid the closet and see what indie writers have been up to and then quickly adapt their shows. I'm really curious what knowing that you're developing for television right away enables with the storytelling.

So, I'm a little bit bummed that we don't know for sure if Drama Shower is coming back right now, but I've really enjoyed this entire project. My average rating for Drama Shower was just under 8, which feels correct. If you like BL, Drama Shower has been a really fascinating project because it's been so varied. We had some cool stuff that came out of it. I thought Mr. Unlucky had some cool ideas. I loved Eternal Yesterday. Takara-kun and Amagi-kun let me down slightly, but I liked it! Like, I liked almost every single one of these outings—except for fucking Sahara-sensei to Toki-kun.

Shan

They really had to come in and ruin it right at the end, didn't they? [laughs]

Ben

For fuck’s sake. I will miss this if we don't get it back, but I really like what we got from it.

NiNi, any thoughts on Drama Shower from sort of only getting our reactions to it and then being prodded about some of the shows?

NiNi

When you were talking to me about some of the Drama Shower shows, you basically were saying these are Japanese pulps. So I've tried to place them in the BL firmament, for me, according to them being mostly pulps. I've only watched three of the Drama Shower shows. I've watched Jack o’ Frost, I watched Tokyo in April, and I watched My Personal Weatherman. Of those three, Jack o’ Frost is easily my favorite, but the shows that I've watched coming out of Japan that weren’t Drama Shower in the last year or two were actually the ones that I enjoyed overall more. So, while I appreciate the role of Drama Shower, what it has done in giving a dedicated time slot, much like in Thailand GMMTV Frigay was a dedicated time slot to help build some bits of the genre. This is kind of similar.

It's a lab, and I think that the genre needs its labs. I think Drama Shower is a good lab, and I'm sure we're going to get another good lab out of Japan again soon. So, yeah, I think that the project was worthy. I only really watched a little bit of it, but I think I could also see how some of the things that it was working through have already started to percolate a little bit through some of the other stuff that we're getting out of Japan. Specifically out of MBS, but also are some of the other places.

00:26:01 - Perfect Propose

Ben

On to our next show: Perfect Propose.

NiNi

Yes, bring it on! I love this show.

Ben

Shan, would you like to describe Perfect Propose for us?

Shan

Sure. Our protagonist Hiro, who is extremely overworked, exhausted, very stressed out by his soul-sucking corporate job, is found, passed out on the sidewalk, by his childhood friend? Sweetheart? Question mark. I think they see that slightly differently, but a childhood friend named Kai, who has also just come into some personal hardship. Kai decides to move in with Hiro to take care of him and also so he has a place to stay. And the story is primarily about Hiro seeing his way out of this really horrible burnout situation that he finds himself in with Kai’s support.

Ben

Second chance romance is my favorite thing in BL [Shan trills] so I had a great time with this show. One of the things the show really focused on was how fucking horrible Hiro's fucking job was.

Shan

Mmhmm.

NiNi

Listen! Oh my God, it was too real.

Ben

I want to talk about that part first because, while I think we all have mostly positive things to say about Hiro and Kai's relationship, I don't want to downplay that particular portion, because the show cared a lot about. And I know, Ginny, you landed on the uncomfortable to slightly put off side of that presentation. It's rare that I see you repulsed when we're watching something. And it was interesting seeing you have a difficult time with that.

Ginny

My issue really was that, as the second half of the show came into play, it became clear that this wasn’t primarily a romance. This was a story about Hiro escaping his soul-sucking corporate job and also being more attentive to his body in the most fundamental sense of, like, his needs as a human being. I felt like I'd been a little bit bait and switched. The setup of the first couple episodes, tt's very much about Kai offering him this physical nurturance, including sexual attention that he was in need of, and possibly their relationship growing. And then it let that be nothing more than a catalyst for Hiro to leave his situation. There was like an episode and a half that were really just fully dedicated to the misery of his job and how and why he was so stuck in it.

I was just like, they're doing this well, but I didn't sign up for it and I'm not enjoying it. [laughs] So that was my experience.

Ben

I respect that. While we're talking about the job stuff, I want to go to NiNi, because I think of all of us, you had the strongest response to the corporate culture stuff.

NiNi

Oh my God, it was like I was seeing myself. So, if you listen to us, you will know that I'm doing this thing where I've restarted my life in my 40s. And the reason that I'm doing it is because I left a job like this. I left a soul-sucking job where I was being gaslit and basically burnt out and destroyed, and so this was almost like a healing drama for me. I would just settle in like, “oh, I'm gonna stab the boss. Oh, he's making him food. I want somebody to make me food. This is so awesome. I'm so glad. Is he gonna get out? I need him to get out. Hell, I need all of them to get out. Why don't they all quit?”

Like, I was having that running commentary in my head while I was watching the show. It was very cathartic for me. I enjoyed everything about it. It was too real. The gaslighting from their boss, especially, was the part that sort of sent me a little bit into a crouch. I was just like, “oh, I'm having flashbacks,” but I needed it. I needed to see Perfect Propose.

It wasn't just an enjoyment for me. It was something I needed to excise from my life and I was able to do it through Perfect Propose. So, it was great for me. The experience was so cathartic. Can't complain about it at all. Fantastic.

Ben

Shan, I remember you having some thoughts because, I don't know that you lived through this sort of stuff directly, but you know colleagues who did.

Shan

Yeah, I'm, I think more on NiNi’s side of the line with this, in that I experienced it as more cathartic and healing. I have been in some toxic workplaces. I've never been in quite the kind of place that Hiro was in in this story like NiNi has. But, I thought it was just a really authentic presentation of that kind of work experience. I thought it was a really genuine representation of the dynamics that can come up in a workplace like that.

One of my favorite things that happened in the show is that Hiro's supervisor left and Hiro became the supervisor, and then he was put in the position of having to drive his team to do the kind of things that he had been driven to do. And he was realizing how limited his options were for breaking that cycle. And I thought that that was just such an important note to include here. It's not the people within the system that are the problem, it's the system itself and it's all reinforcing.

Ben

I was also Hiro in my last job and my team and I, we quit—on my birthday, no less. What an incredible experience. So I started the age of 32 [laughs] unemployed. Which was fun.

I really liked that the show leaned into the work culture aspect of it, that Hiro's previous supervisor was like. “You need to quit, too. Like, I'm leaving. I got a better offer. You are way better than these people allow you to think of yourself as. You should quit, too.” I loved Hiro staying because he thought he needed to insulate his team from that kind of hell. And I love that he failed, spectacularly. Like, he tried to save a younger dev from that and he couldn't.

I really appreciated that they show that there's no amount of effort that overcomes that sort of nonsense. A lot of the times when they do the adult BL, the work part of being an adult feels kind of missing or nebulous. They're mostly using work to recreate the cliquish dynamics of high school to tell those sort of stories, and I really appreciate it that this show, and the next show we're going to talk about actually, don't do that.

I want to refocus now that we've talked about really fucked up, sad work part of this, on the relationship between Kai and Hiro. Part of what locked me in on this show, right away was Kai literally picks passed out Hiro up off the street, takes him back to his house, feeds him some proper food, and then jerks him off so he can go to sleep. Hiro was more than a little overwhelmed by all of this. But that man's skin cleared up the next day.

NiNi

[laughs] He was looking refreshed, restored, rejuvenated.

Ben

We had some complex reactions in our own circle and online about that particular encounter. Ginny, I want to get your commentary on this part because I think you often have the most nuanced appreciation of sexual moments that carry a level of dubious consent. And I wonder if you have any thoughts about that.

Ginny

One thing that you and I have talked about, Ben, is people often put male-female frameworks onto these shows. Which is not to say that consent isn't a problem between men, ‘cause it for sure is. But the way that these dynamics play out and the way that the core relational dynamics between men work is not always comparable and can't always be mapped onto a male-female dynamic.

How I read this scene and how I think it was intended to be read is Hiro can't say, “Oh yes, do this, please,” because he's not in a headspace to accept that this is something that he could want from another man, or really at all. And again, it's really difficult to talk about this without inviting people to map it on all kinds of other situations where it doesn't belong. So please don't do that. But the way this scene is constructed felt very clearly to me like, this is something that Hiro is willing to let happen to him and maybe needs to let happen to him, but is not able to affirmatively say yes to because of where he is in his head, and especially with the way that intimacy develops between the characters later fulfilled the storyline that they set up in that first scene.

NiNi

I feel like this is a place we always land up in with Asian media because of the ways that Asian media portrays and puts forward ideas about what is acceptable sexually, what it is acceptable to want and not want, how it is acceptable to relate in a sexual manner. I feel like these always come up when we're dealing with Asian media. People talk about wanting to change the conversation in Asian media around this kind of stuff, and I fully understand that.

But this story read to me pretty old school yaoi and because of that I got where the headspace of the story was coming from. Like you said, Ginny, this can't be mapped on to everything else. But in this specific story I saw where it was coming from.

Ben

For me, I think I would have been more concerned about their dynamic if not for the morning after conversation in the bathroom. The energy in that scene was Kai being very attentive and almost doing, like, aftercare with Hiro, who was clearly into the dynamic with that whole scene with the hair gel and then him giving him the key so he could stay and then the next episode being like, why has nothing happened since that moment? Which also, like NiNi said, is very old school yaoi.

Shan

Sexual encounters with dubious consent happen a lot in life. It's a thing that happens. I don't need every depiction of it in fiction to be accompanied by someone turning to the camera and saying, “That was dubious consent, and it's bad.” Instead of just letting the context of the story and the characters’ reactions let us know what their headspace was and why it happened.

And I think that the show did that. I think that we understood Hiro and Kai's dynamic well as the show progressed. I think that we saw a pattern develop where Hiro would hope for or want something from Kai, but wouldn't ask for it. And Kai could read him and see what he was going for. I like that Kai got to a point of teasing him about that and pushed him to ask for the things he wants or come right out and say or do something to confirm it. I thought it was quite legible what the show was going for here, so I was not troubled by it. They did a good job of building a believable dynamic for them of Hiro coming to rely on Kai for all kinds of different comforts and as his main source of care and pleasure.

Ben

I think they did a great job conveying that Kai was totally down for Hiro the whole time without it feeling, like, possessive. I particularly enjoyed around—was it episode 5 when they had that kiss on the bench where he's like,”Hirokuni-san, have you made your decision yet?” I thought that was great.

Shan

Pairing that with teasing him with the shots of the delicious dinners he was making at home, that Hiro wasn't making it home to eat. I think the message from Kai always, consistently, was this is all here for you. You just gotta take it. And I like that. That felt adult to me.

Ben

I want to talk about Kai a little bit. We know that Hiro is obviously at the end of his rope when we first see him passed out on the street, people walking past him. We learned fairly quickly that Kai is also kind of at the end of his rope. He's been a neglected, lonely child for a long time, and the only other person who ever seemed to give a shit about him was in the midst of a health crisis, and that guy's son was keeping him away from the dad because he didn't understand their relationship.

NiNi

I really liked, actually, that part of the issue that Kai was having with his boss and his son was that Kai couldn't ask for what he wanted out of the boss. He clearly saw the boss as a father figure and the boss saw him as a son figure, but he couldn't talk about it. It's very Japanese. He couldn't presume and he couldn't put himself in a position where he appeared presumptuous. So he had to take a step back. Be polite. He couldn't say certain things. He couldn't behave in certain ways. This is the situation, I'm going to make myself as small as possible in this situation. And then once it got to the point where he felt like maybe he could have presumed a little more, the son started to understand, “Okay, this is actually sort of a father son dynamic here,” the son backed down immediately. He was just like, “I'm sorry. I didn't understand what you guys were to each other.”

I really liked that. I am often the one who complains about the Japanese non-communication or Japanese communication and how it is frustrating for me, but I thought this was a really good use of it, of Japanese cultural expectations around family and not wanting to be presumptuous about certain things. I really think that it played out really well here. I quite enjoyed that.

Ben

I love the relationship between Kai and the restaurant owner. Few things are more important to a boy than bonding with an older, grumpy man and connecting in the same grumpy way. It's extremely important to your development.

Shan

I like what you said NiNi about Kaiju's inability to communicate what Kenji meant to him and what he was seeking from the relationship, and I like that that was mirrored in Kenji, the restaurant owner, also not being able to say out loud what the deal was, like, why this boy mattered to him. He also kept his mouth shut and didn't explain it to his son, I think for similar reasons. They have a very emotional bond that they both found hard to talk about or justify to other people. I did like that.

I will say, though, that I do think that the Kai side of this show is the weaker element, perhaps of the story. Hiro's narrative was the main narrative, but Kai had a story too, and I do think it didn't get the fullness that Hiro's did, and it was one area where I wanted a little bit more from the show than what we got.

Ginny

This is more to my personal preferences than necessarily show doing right or wrong. I was much more interested in Kai and his situation than in Hiro's situation, so I also would have liked to see more of it. There were a lot of layers to the ways that Kai and Hiro each struggled to take care of themselves or see themselves as deserving care. We did get that fully played through with Hiro and we didn't really get to see Kai’s own dovetailing/mirror image issue of that fully realized and I would have liked to see it.

Ben

Getting back to some of the adult things I really liked in this, I really liked the whole missed opportunity around the festival because Hiro is unable to leave his job and tell him to fuck off. And I really liked Kai, just sort of accepting that disappointment, but getting something kind of interesting out of it by growing the strawberries in the tank they were hoping to use for something else.

I really liked the failure of that moment. Hiro getting mad with himself on Kai's behalf and being frustrated that Kai didn't presume more from him and voicing all of the ways that he kind of was a jerk about the whole festival thing. I think that was one of my favorite moments in the show where Hiro gets mad, but doesn't really have a great outlet for it because he knows he's the one who's at fault. And so Kai's telling him, “It doesn't matter, like, you don't owe me anything,” only frustrated him even more.

NiNi

Yeah, because he wants Kai to expect things of him by that point, and he's not even entirely sure why. But he does want Kai to feel like he has responsibilities towards him.

Ginny

You do see Hiro consistently more upset about other people not getting what they deserve than himself [Shan mmhmms] with Kai in that situation and with his new underlying when he becomes the team lead.

Ben

I'm never getting over that man having a couch that matches the aesthetic of the chairs in his office.

Shan

I clocked that in the first episode and I was so depressed. I was like, no!

[Shan and Ben laugh]

Ben

I remember you pointed it out first.

Shan

I was like y'all, are you seeing these colors? I'm not usually a colors person, either. I don't usually notice that shit. But that was so striking to me that the one pop of color in his entire gray, sad home was that green couch that was the same green as the chairs in his office. Depressing as fuck.

Ben

Before we get to ratings, we gotta do a shout out for Hiori, the junior dev who was clearly a fujoshi who was keyed in right away to watch series.

[all laugh]

Shan

I loved her!

NiNi

She was so ready when they went on the work dinner and she was like, “All right, I'm headed out. I'm going home. Y'all are getting drunk. I'm not sticking around for this, I'm gonna catch the last train” and then Hiro’s drunk and somebody's like, “oh, we're gonna call the guy he's living with.” And she sat back down immediately, like, “He's coming here? I need to see this.”

Shan

Sat her ass right back down and ordered another beer. She was like, “Hell no, I'ma miss that train.”

NiNi

“I'm gonna pay for this Uber ride or this taxi and I'm gonna like it.”

Ben

I loved her. She was like, “Oh, shit, Am I gonna get to see him?” And she got everything she wanted. Kai showed up, sweaty.

Shan

Ooo, sweaty from his run. Mmm.

Ben

Glared at Konoko, like, “Don't you ever fucking put your hands on him ever again, I will fucking kill you. And she was, like, “I got everything I needed.”

[Shan laughs]

NiNi

She didn't even go home after that. She's just like, “Well, I need another drink because that was delightful.”

Ben

I do appreciate that we got to see Hiro, quit that job and stop prioritizing it at the end. Like, he woke up, clearly from them having a good session the night before, like “I ain't answering that fucking phone.” And we saw that the other employees have seemingly maybe left their job because they all looked like they were happy in the park. And they ran into Konoko, as well. So, I feel very relieved by the end of this drama.

Shan

I definitely interpret that group picnic at the end as confirmation that they have all left that awful job.

Ben

Particularly because Sakamoto was also there and I'm really glad that he looked okay.

NiNi

Listen, I was so worried about that kid. I was so worried that I stopped in the middle of my binge to ask. “Listen, you'll need to tell me if this kid is okay, because the last time I saw him, he was having a meltdown. And then they sent him home. And then I have not seen him. So y’all need to tell me that he's fine.” And they were like, “Yeah, he's fine” and then I was able to continue the show.

Ben

So, ratings! NiNi.

NiNi

I gave the show a 9.5. I agree with Shan and Ginny that I wanted to see a little bit more of Kai’s side of the story because I think it was actually quite intriguing. I understand that they didn't have a ton of time and they didn't use their time well, but I would have liked to see a bit more of the Kai side of things.

Ben

Ginny?

Ginny

I gave it an 8.5. I think execution-wise it probably merits a 9, but I did dock it for my own personal enjoyment because it's my rating and I'm allowed.

Ben

Absolutely. Shan?

Shan

I gave it a 9. I agree with basically what NiNi said. I think if they had managed to drive home Kai’s side of the story a little firmer, it would have been a higher score for me. But it's a good show, I really liked it.

Ben

It's not an obvious recommend right away, because then they have to get involved in the discourse and so it’s hard for me to just go, “It's a 10. Go watch it right now!” But I like the show a lot, so I gave it a 9 because there are reasonable knocks on some threads not being fully completed and yaoi considerations around male sex that made me a little bit grumpy to deal with while we were watching this.

It gets a 9 from The Conversation. I liked it a lot, I think it's worth your time.

NiNi

I have to add, whenever I saw Kai’s hands, I kept thinking about the discussion I had with Ben about yaoi hands.

[all laugh]

Ben

He did have yaoi hands.

NiNi

He had massive hands!

Ben

I have started following that actor. His real smile is so fu,n he is worth following on IG.

NiNi

Bestie you know I don't do the socials, but for those of you who do.

Ben

I do. That's what I'm here for.

00:49:27 - Sukiyanen Kedo Do Yaro Ka

NiNi

Moving on to Although I Love You, And You?—Japanese title Sukiyanen Kedo Do Yara ka. Oh my God I can't believe I got that right the first time around.

Ben

Yeah, good job, bestie.

Shan

Good job, NiNi.

NiNi

I'm not gonna get it right again. So, Ben, what is Sukidoya about?

Ben

Sukidoya is a story about a burgeoning romance between a restaurant owner and a corporate salary man who has recently moved to Osaka from Tokyo. Both of these guys are coming out of failed relationships and find friendship and connection in each other. The restaurant owner already is very aware of his own queerness. Meets this guy and has an instant attraction to him and is determined to follow up on it, but decides that he should probably be a bit more cautious this time, particularly because of some of the cultural differences between Osaka and Tokyo. We get to see them try to sort through what their new potential relationship will look like with the complications that ensue.

This was another show that we had a lot of complicated discussions about while we were watching it. Because you have more consternation than others, Shan, we'll let you go first, and then we'll follow up.

Shan

This is a show that I wanted to like more than I ended up liking. I really loved the main characters in this show. I liked that there was what felt like a very adult setup for the romance. These were two adult men with pasts, with romantic histories who had exes that were present in the story and actually had roles to play. They were coming together across differences, both cultural differences and differences in how they had experienced romance in the past, differences in how they relate, differences in their hobbies and personalities. I was very interested in all of that and I was really excited to get what I thought was going to be a pretty adult narrative about figuring out how to be in a relationship together across those differences.

That's not really what the show ended up being about. There was a lot going on in the narrative here and some of it in the end didn't feel like it justified the amount of story time that it got. Some of it felt like it really derailed the story. There I'm speaking primarily about the insertion of a love triangle into the plot that I don't think ultimately served the story or the characters very well. Sakae’s ex, Mizuki, came into the story around the midpoint and I liked his inclusion initially, ‘cause I liked seeing this mature ex that was in the mix. It's very common for people to still have exes in their lives and we don't see it depicted very often in drama, and so I liked that he was around, that he was coming back into Sakae's orbit, that he was bringing up some issues for him that were maybe throwing a little bit of a wrench in this burgeoning romance that he had with Soga. But then the show really took that much further, turned it into a full blown love triangle, had Mizuki pursuing Sakae again, had him intervening in the romance, getting in the way, dating Sakae again briefly. It was a lot, ultimately, I think too much. It took up a lot of story time. It threw off the trajectory of Sakae and Soga’s relationship development. The pacing of the story felt pretty rushed. It felt like we hadn't really gotten to settle into any kind of relationship with them. Candidly, I am not generally a fan of love triangles. They can be done well and they have been, but this is a romance narrative in which a love triangle was kind of awkwardly inserted to create drama, and that's the kind I really don't like. That was a big negative for me on this show and threw off my investment in the romance.

But it's not a show that I wanna be too negative about. I like a lot of what it did. I did like these characters, this smaller town restaurant owner who's really genuine and straightforward, but maybe not the most socially graceful guy. Being into this nerdy, quiet guy who has nothing in common with him, trying to figure out how to relate to each other, trying to figure out how to communicate across their differences. I really liked those aspects of it. I left the drama wishing that we had gotten a story more focused on that and less on all this random stuff that they were throwing in to create conflict. In the end I was a bit frustrated with the show, but I like a lot of what it was doing and I hope that we'll get more shows like this that focus on adult characters.

Ben

I just learned some fun trivia while doing some research.

Shan

Oh?

Ben

NiNi, the screenwriter of Sukiyanen Kedo Do Yara ka is also the screenwriter on Three Star Bar in Nishi Ogikubo.

NiNi

The DNA is there. I could see it.

Ben

This is also one of the same directors who was on Sahara-sensei to Toki-kun.

NiNi

We shall not speak of it, bestie.

Shan

Don't bring them back into this. [laughs]

Ben

Ginny, of all the shows we're going to talk about tonight, you had, I think, the strongest connection to these particular characters, and I really want to hear your thoughts on them.

Ginny

While I agree that narratively the show did not hold together as strongly as it could, in every scene they were written well, they were acted well, they were consistent, they were who they were. And that, I think, was why I loved the show so much, as it played so well on a scene by scene level. Both of these are, in almost completely opposite superficial ways, men who struggle to advocate for what they want in life. Sakae is extremely a pushover. You see, as soon as his ex walks back into the scene, how difficult it is for him to say no and even earlier, as he and Soga are getting to know each other, it's very easy for him to fall into a rhythm of just doing whatever Sogo wants and enjoys and simply not advocating for himself or his interests at all. So he's this very kind of impulsively outspoken character. He keeps saying things that he doesn't mean to say, but when it comes to actually saying what he wants, he's slow to do that.

On Soga’s side, he's very reserved, and kind of doesn't feel confident enough, I think, in his own desires to advocate for them. Even though he clearly likes and feels very drawn to Sakae, he takes so much of the show trying to figure out exactly what that means and waffling on what to do with that. I really like seeing two characters with the same fundamental issue that expresses itself in such different ways come together and try to build a relationship.

My favorite part in the whole show is after they've started dating, they try to work out this conflict resolution system in such a characteristic way. Sakae knows Soga has been married before, so he says, “What was your ex-wife like? What was your relationship like?” Thinking in his head, “I'm going to become exactly like her, because clearly Soga liked her, so that will work out great and I foresee no problems with this.” And so Soga tells him about their conflict resolution style, which is not Sakae’s style at all, but they try it. They both kind of yes, and each other into doing something that's not gonna work for either of them and they try it for a while and then it falls apart and then they talk it out.

It all felt so real to me as a person who struggles to express and sometimes even to know what I want. I've been in relationships on both sides where that's a major factor and they played it out so beautifully realistically, while still feeling very fun. The show always felt light, even when it was headed into kind of a difficult moment between them. It never let the mood sink too much. I loved seeing that dynamic play out between them and the ways that they tried to work towards each other and often worked harder at making the other person happy than making themselves happy and had to kind of figure out how to do both at the same time.

NiNi

I liked you describing it as them yes, and-ing each other, because that's exactly what that felt like. It felt very improv. I really enjoyed that scene a lot.

Ben

I really liked that we got to see a homo jock trying to date a culture person. That was so fuckin’ funny to me. We don't get to see fitness gays that often, and I had such a great time as a result.

NiNi

It was delightful, and it was more of that city mouse, country mouse thing that they were trying to do, it was so fun. I wish that they had leaned more into the differences between them, more than the external factors.

Of the external factors, I really enjoyed the job one coming up and when it came up in the relationship, and the conflict that that posed. But I think that the ex-boyfriend thing was a bridge too far. I think it was important that we saw the ex-boyfriend to understand certain things about Sakae, but I don't think that they needed to drag that out into him trying to get Sakae back kind of thing.

Ben

I liked Mizuki as a character a lot and I liked them showing Sakae having an intimate, intense relationship with another person. I think on the pragmatic side, from talking about this as a drama, I'm more with Shan in that I don't know that this show set us up for the right expectations and that could be a cultural competency part on our part, because of the thing they were playing with, with the Osaka, Tokyo thing. But I was also hoping to spend more time with these guys as a functional couple perhaps than I think we got? I think it's fine for the show to do what they chose to do with their time, but I think I wanted something from the show it couldn't give us. I also got a little bit frustrated that there was way less food in the back half than there was in the front half because I signed up for a food show.

But, they did give me a great baseball moment, so maybe it’s okay.

Shan

[laughs] They did have a really good baseball scene. I was just gonna yes, and you Ben about the food. The food was a strong presence in the first half of the show. And then it did just kind of disappeared. I wouldn’t really call this a food drama, in the end.

I think one other piece that we kind of discussed live while we were watching that I do think is worth mentioning—not to single this show out, but to talk a little bit about a trend that exists, I think, across dramas—there was a quite a spicy sex scene between Sakae and Mizuki in this show. Far spicier than any scene we ended up getting for Sakae and Soga. Feels like a strange choice that they went to that heat level in a scene with his ex and then kept the heat so low on the current relationship.

One of the reasons I don't like it when dramas do that is because it kind of sends a message that only toxic relationships have hot sex in them, and that when you find your right person when you're truly in love, sex is not that important, or it's not part of the dynamic. And I don't think that's a good message. It's not a sex positive message, certainly—and I don't know or think necessarily that the show intended to do that here—but, it is kind of the effect of that choice that a lot of dramas make to only show hot sex in the context of toxic or old relationships and keep the main couple of a show kind of quote unquote pure. That stuck out to me in this show and nothing that came after that scene hit anywhere close to that heat level. So it did kind of stand out as a weird choice to me.

Ginny

In terms of the general trend, I certainly agree. It is worth noting that that scene was specifically happening in Soga’s imagination, so it wasn't like, “This was how it was.” It's like, “This is how Soga is thinking about Sakae and his ex.” Which in the context of the story gives it a very different meaning. But I do certainly agree with what you're saying about the overall trend in media.

Shan

That's a good point, Ginny. It's a fair one to bring up. I do think, though, if the show is willing to go to that heat level, why are they not willing to go there with the main couple?

NiNi

And we do know that they are having a hot time, because at the end when they make back up Soga’s like, “Look, we know we gotta fuck, okay? So let's just get this relationship shit wrapped up before we do.” And I thought that was delightful.

Ginny

So good!

Shan

It was a very funny line, but it also kinda came out of nowhere, ‘cause we hadn't seen any sexual relationship for them. [laughs]

Ginny

We saw some.

Ben

I get where Shan’s coming from, like, they confirmed that the guys are having sex and they deliver some of the prelude and the aftermath. But it stands out with what they showed with Mizuki. I think minus the Mizuki stuff, we probably don't feel that way.

NiNi

In general, I agree with Shan, yes, but I do agree with Ginny as well that this is really Soga’s imagination. Like really pushing up his fears and anxieties and all that stuff.

Ben

I at least got to make a joke about the need for a robust public transport system [Shan and Ginny laugh], because it's what allows them to be compromised in the end of this. I’m like, “You see that? Robust, fast, frequent high speed rail is the only reason that these gays made it.”

NiNi

Public transport is for the gays, that's the new slogan.

So, ratings, how are we rating this one? Ginny, how about you? What do you think?

Ginny

I gave this one also an 8.5 from the opposite direction of Perfect Propose. I think execution wise it deserves a bit lower, but I enjoyed it so much that I bumped us up to 8.5.

Ben

Shandler?

Shan

I gave it a 7.5 because the execution issues really really bothered me. I think ultimately I really wanted to love it and I was disappointed that I didn't.

Ben

NiNi?

NiNi

I liked all the Osaka stuff. I liked how homey they made Osaka feel. I liked the female coworker who, having been pushed back, decided to become a full on supporter and get these two guys together. I gave it an 8. I had a good time with it. I think it was well done. I could have done without most of the Mizuki arc, but, I enjoyed it.

Ben

I did like Kanda a lot too, and his friend Kanada [Kaname]? Oh man, I really like the friend support group, but this show didn't come together fully for me. I struggle to really talk about it and give a clear recommendation for it, so it's a 7.5 for me.

Which averages out to a 7.89ish. We'll give it an 8. I think that's fair.

NiNi

I think it's fine for it to get an 8 from The Conversation.

Ben

We liked it. Even though it was not exactly what I think any of us was wanting.

01:04:44 - I Want To See Only You

NiNi

Next up, we're gonna talk the latest entry, actually: I Want to See Only You.

Ben, what is I Want to See Only You about?

Ben

It is about how we all really, really loved Kura Yuki in [laughs] His: I Didn't Mean to Fall in Love, and we needed another show with him.

Shan

Oh, man, you're struggling. You can't even deliver the joke, sir, [laughs] ‘cause it's so ridiculous.

[Ben laughs]

Ben’s just trying to score a point off me right now, but it's not working. [laughs]

Ben

Kimi no Koto Dake Mite Itai, aka I Want to See Only You, is a four episode Japanese BL, partially funded by Hulu—that was kind of interesting—in which two boys in high school go through a friends-to-lovers arc. One of them has been nursing a crush for a long time on his friend, and confesses to his friend, and they deal with the complications that ensue from that in a way that I thought was really gentle and wholesome. This was a very short story, but I enjoyed it a lot.

Because it's not that complicated! They've been childhood friends. One of them reveals that he has stronger feelings than just friendship, and the other guy just begins to process that, and we get this really interesting dynamic where they're figuring out what the changes to their relationship are going to be. There's not any real complicating drama here. It's really just about these guys sorting their shit out.

Shan

Yeah, I mean, this show is just uncomplicated. It is heartwarming. It is cute as fuck. It is two nice boys being kind to each other while they navigate a change in their relationship. It's really as simple as that. Sakura confesses to Yuma. Yuma processes the confession. They have a lovely kiss around the fire pit. It's so straightforward and I loved it. It was just nice to watch something that is gentle and kind and lovely, and that's what it is.

I really like this show. I think it's a great serotonin hit—a quick one. And definitely recommend folks watch it.

Ben

Ginny and Nini, did you have time to watch this show?

Ginny

I did not even know it existed until I saw it on the show notes and I was like, “What's that? Oh, well, I'm already doing another show as my homework.”

NiNi

I watched it. It was very short, very sweet. I came away just with the feeling of having really enjoyed watching something, like being wrapped in a nice warm blanket. Watching these two soft boys have a soft time and then all the kooky characters around them. This is one of the things about this kind of Japanese drama that I enjoy, which is all the kooky side characters.

So you've got the two teachers, you've got the girl who has the crush on—I can't remember which boy she has a crush on—and then the boy who has the crush on her. It's so fun. It's so delightful. The teachers are the second best part of the show. I love the teachers so much.

It's just fun. It's sweet. It doesn't require a lot of you. It's very wholesome. I enjoyed it thoroughly.

Ben

I was being really goofy at the beginning of this, but I like Kura Yuki a lot and I'm really glad we got to see him in BL again. I thought he was really good in the His prequel, and I really enjoy getting to see him again.

NiNi

He has really sad eyes, which I actually really enjoyed.

Shan

Yeah, he has a really emotive face, I think. I'm excited to see him keep doing more shows.

Ben

There's really not that much more to say. This is a really quick, really gentle show. If you need a really good mood boost, I recommend it.

Ratings! Shan?

Shan

I gave this a 9. It is straightforward. It is sweet. It's an easy watch. Highly recommended.

Ben

NiNi?

NiNi

I also give it a 9. It's incredibly straightforward and cute. I enjoyed it. I like that they couldn't quite figure out how to shift their relationship from friends to boyfriends. They were dating and they're like, “Should we be doing, like, other stuff?” But they were just doing the same stuff that they had always done. I found that delightful.

Ben

I gave it a 9.5 for the terrible pasta they made. [Shan and NiNi laugh]

Shan

We forgot to talk about the pasta!

NiNi

The pasta was so bad.

Shan

[still laughing] Those boys really went outside and picked some tomatoes and just tossed them fully, without any chopping, into a pan and stirred them around a lil bit and put them on top of some fucking limp noodles and called that spaghetti.

Ben

Zero notes. [laughs]

NiNi

The pasta was still semi-crunchy. It was delightful. It was so high school. It was the most high school thing I've ever seen.

Shan

[still laughing] Raw tomatoes and, like, unseasoned noodles? Amazing.

Ben

I really loved it. For your context Ginny, this is when the boys are trying to figure out the shift in their relationship and they make a list of things they wanna do together. Making pasta with the tomatoes they were growing in the school garden was one of those things. And I thought that was a really lovely idea and super romantic. And then because they're a bunch of high school boys who barely know how to cook, they fucked it up badly. But they had a good time together. It was great.

Shan

It was so good.

Ginny

Incredible.

NiNi

Seriously, Ginny, it's a short watch. It's an easy watch. If you're ever in the mood for something to just lift your mood, I suggest watching it.

Ben

So it gets a 9 from The Conversation. It's worth your time. Please go watch it.

01:10:55 - I Became the Main Role of a BL Drama

NiNi

On to the main event, which Ben has literally been waiting to talk about since we recorded the winter series. We're finally going to talk about I Became the Main Role [of] a BL Drama. Ben, you've been basically building up to this moment. Go right ahead.

Ben

I Became the Main Role of a BL Drama is about how these two boys will drown the audience in the BL goodness. [Shan laughs]

NiNi

Oh God.

Ben

It is a BL about making a BL, which is a lot of fun. No shade against Thailand in this, but when they do self-critical BL it's not always the most fun experience because there's a lot of real grievances the people making it need to air—and I completely respect that. But it also can be kind of a downer. When Japan makes fun of BL, they end up seeming to have more fun poking at the nature of the genre and delivering on the comedic beats without it just feeling like a bitch session.

So, in this particular show, we have Aoyanagi Hajime, who is a former child actor who was struggling a bit with his career and trying to figure out how to move forward, and he gets an opportunity to be one of the leads in a BL production against a up-and-coming idol, Akafuji Yuichiro. They are working on a workplace BL and we're mostly on the set of them filming this show. We don't get to see the show itself. I really wish we would get to see the show they made, it looks great.

They're starting to work on the show, and the two guys do not seem to have much chemistry. The reason we learn is because Yuichiro is actually an Aoyanagi Hajime stan, who is internally freaking out the whole time because he's this close to his idol. And they suggest the two guys live together to build up their chemistry. Their relationship gets complicated as they start to develop something between each other, and this complicates their relationship on set as well. But we mostly spend that time unpacking Aoyanagi’s confidence issues.

This was my favorite show. Before I just start gushing about how beautiful I find Akutsu Nichika, Ginny, thoughts on the show?

Ginny

I love this show so much. Just hearing you talk about it, I was feeling little bubbles of delight remembering all of the different scenes and moments and setups. It was just exquisite. It was so fun and so funny. Very comic, but also felt true to these people as people. Love seeing the cheeky BL commentary. Love seeing Abe Alan play this cool, up-and-coming popular idol, who is just smitten with this kind of no-name, famous-for-one-ad guy and just is flailing around, having to try to act BL.

One of the best moments any BL drama will ever give us is him asking Hajime to record that one kinda bitchy line he says for fap material. [Ben and Shan laugh] God, that's the funniest thing that's ever happened to me personally.

Ben

We will not do that scene justice describing it because it's not just about the dialogue of the scenario. It is staged really well. The blocking is a huge part of the joke in that one, because of what other people know or don't know in the background. It's really a great sequence of the show.

NiNi

I loved all of the blocking in that show, all of the stage direction, all the stuff that's happening in the background of all the scenes when they're on set is hilarious. Japanese shows will always reward you for paying attention to what's happening in the background of a scene. And this show, in particular, the background of every scene, is just phenomenal. It is delightful.

Ben

We cruised into the new year watching this show.

Shan

It was both the last show of 2023 and the first show of 2024 for us.

Ben

This show ended, I was like, “We've already decided the winner [laughs] for ‘24. Everybody, pack it up.”

Shan

I love this show. It's a great example of a super high velocity comedy where it's just joke, joke, joke, joke, joke coming at you from all sides in every moment of the show, not just through the dialogue, but through the scenery, through the blocking, through the things that other characters are doing just out of the frame. This thing is just packed, packed, packed with jokes, and so every time you watch it, you will see new stuff that you missed last time. There are so many gags in this, it's just so well done. The command you have to have to deliver comedy in that way with this extremely zippy pacing, in that super-packed content to shove it all into this three hour package. It's just so impressive. It's the kind of precision that most productions can only aspire to.

There was such good visual jokes in this. The reveal that Akafuji had been wearing a fan T-shirt [laughs] underneath his clothes in scenes. There was a fantastic scene with a leg kabedon.

Ben

Hold on, this is fun. Let's go around the group with a gag that we remember until we run out. Shan gave two. NiNi?

NiNi

I mean, I feel like the leg kabedon was a moment, because when I finally watched the show, I literally said, “Did he just do a kabedon with his leg?” and I was instructed [Ginny and Shan laugh] in the ways of Japanese media in that moment.

Shan

Sure did!

Ben

Ginny?

Ginny

Him running after Hajime carrying his Hajime standee.

Ben

After he had previously used it as a shield. [laughs]

Ginny

Yeah.

Ben

One of the gags I enjoyed was all Aoyangi mentioning he was called a bad kisser by his ex, and Akafuji just checks out for that moment, like he's not even listening to the rest of the conversation. He just keeps repeating “moto kono,” referring to the ex-girlfriend over and over again because he's spiraling over it. I enjoyed that one a lot.

[all laugh]

NiNi

Speaking of spiraling! Him fighting with the showerhead.

Shan

[Ginny and NiNi laugh] Oh my God! The showerhead! I still don’t understand what he was doing in that scene, but it was so funny.

Ben

It represents his sexual desire almost being out of control.

Shan

Oh, I got that part. [laughs] I just don't understand what the character was doing.

[Ginny laughs]

Ben

Struggling.

NiNi

When he nearly kissed Aoyanagi, then he went outside and basically hung over the balcony railing [laughs]. Just had a meltdown just from being close enough to almost kiss him.

Ben

The spinning scene on the steps where I was like, “He's gonna kill that boy.” [Ginny laughs]

Shan

Yes! When they were like, twirling each other around on a concrete stairway. [Ben laughs]

There were so many good supporting characters in this, too. I really liked the initial pitch scene with the producers who are describing the vision for the show.

Ben

That was fucking fantastic.

NiNi

Oh my God!

Shan

The level of intensity that they were bringing to their description of this super fucking basic office BL. [laughs]

Ben

Our follow[ers] did not understand the way I lost my shit over this show after the first episode. From the “I will drown the audience in the BL goodness” scene, I was like, “This is it, y'all. This is the show.”

Shan

This is the one.

Ben

“Everyone else can go. I'm done. I found what I needed.”

NiNi

So funny, and literally every time she was on screen, whether it was foreground or background, she was killin’ it. I loved her.

Shan

Every performer in this show was so dialed in at all times, whether they were the focus of a scene or not, they were always doing something important and funny in the background. There was also, of course, the great runner with the managers—

Ginny

The managers!

Shan

—who were carrying on a secret romance.

Ben

We saw them interacting like, “Are they exes? Are they together? What's goin’ on?”

Shan

It was clear somethin’ was going on there from the start.

Ben

They know each other, that's for sure.

Ginny

Mmhmm.

NiNi

They definitely know each other.

Ginny

They know each other.

Shan

They know each other. I was very surprised by the spicy reveal we got [laughs] about their relationship.

NiNi

It was kind of spicy, wasn't it? There was choking involved.

Shan

And then also Ryoga, who was brought in to be a co-star in the show. He was, like, a very well known actor/influencer, I think?

Ben

He was a member of a boy band and they were bringing him in for additional crossover appeal. ‘Cause his strong point was his arrogance. [Ginny and Ben laugh] He walks in the room and they're like throwing fucking feathers for him. And then he starts helping them pick it up. “Thanks for throwing the feathers, guys.” [all laugh]

Shan

This drama! Three episodes, it had a small cast, but it did so much with what it had.

Ben

We were only with this show for two hours, but boy was that a great time.

NiNi

It was so much fun. The producer, the look on her face in the background when the two of them were flirting on set and she caught them? [Shan laughs] Her face was slowly lighting up. [laughs]

Ben

She's like—

Shan

So happy.

Ben

—”Conceal, don't feel, don't let them know.” [all laugh]

I love the manager glaring at his own fucking ward. He's like, “Can you read that line again for me?” and he glares at him. [Ben and Ginny laugh]

Shan

Oh man.

Ben

In terms of the BL commentary, that was fun. There's the whole ramp up of you get selected for a role, you don't really know your costar, there's the reading of the material.

One of the things I really enjoyed with this is that they delved into Aoyanagi really struggling with the fact that he was unable to build rapport with his co-star right away. I like actors getting to play actors and stuff. When Aoyanagi was acting as his character, he was actually really good and was really dialed in. It was really cool how quickly he could go in and out of character. I really liked them showing that he's actually good, but he's in his own head about it because he's really sensitive to commentary from fans, and they reinforce how fan behavior has really potentially negative impacts on actors and entertainers with Kuromiya. He gets cornered by a really aggressive fan, and has to be saved by Aoyanagi in that moment.

I actually liked the moment with Tendo, the female supporting character on their cast, when Aoyanagi’s trying to talk to her about what's going on with Akafuji and he's speaking about it hypothetically, and she's like, “If your co-star is trying to make out with you off set, that's not good.”

Shan

Mmhmm.

Ben

“That's extremely bad.” And he's like, “Wait, but this is a BL story, we're gonna just ride it out for this.” But she's like, “Mmm, no.”

Shan

Aside from how very fucking funny this is, it had some really good messages. The most important thing this show did for me was make it super clear that, in order for the two of them to have a real relationship and have a romance, Akafuji had to let go of being Aoyanagi’s fan. You can't idolize and worship a person if you want a relationship with them. You have to process them as a human being, a full human being, and see them fully for who they are, and not keep them on this fannish pedestal. I really like that the show was clear about that. Being a fan, being a stan of somebody, is not the same thing as loving them.

Ben

It was really surprising as well that the show allowed there to be the commentary about the network, late in production, interfering—getting cold feet about something. The guys had a lot of consternation about whether or not they'd be able to deliver a proper kiss for the intimacy, and then the powers that be pulled the kiss, and you get the sense immediately from the producers that that wasn't their choice, that people with money above them made that decision and they had to just deliver the party line and just accept it.

Shan

That probably brings us to our one real criticism of this show, yeah?

Ben

The reason why the show did not get a 10. [laughs]

Shan

Damn it, we wanted it to get a 10!

Ben

I get what they were going for. They reserved that moment for them. But I'm looking at you TV Asahi.

Shan

Because, they did not deliver a kiss.

Ben

They didn't.

Shan

They did not deliver a kiss in this show. [laughs]

Ben

It’s the only knock.

Shan

They teased a kiss continuously. They showed them about to kiss multiple times before cutting the camera away.

Ben

We got sad kissing in episode 2.

Shan

They implied that they might have been kissing as practice off camera, that we didn't see. And then they ended the show—similarly to Cherry Magic—with the camera zooming in on them, about to kiss, and then a cut to black. It was unsatisfying all around.

It's the one real ding on the show. The first time they did the fake out, we were like, “Oh no, show. Please don't do this. We want to love you unreservedly. Please just deliver the kiss.”

Ben

That's the real sadness of our two grab bags. We did not get a NiNi “I love this unreservedly” and we talked about like 10 shows. [Ben and Shan laugh]

NiNi

Everything's got a little ding to it right now, but we'll get that again, I believe.

Ben

[laughs] But genuinely I love this. I really like that for the little time we spent with them, all the characters felt really human to me in a way that was really accessible. And even though they were mostly broad strokes in all of these characters, I got a lot out of it. It was really, truly one of my favorite BL experiences I've had in a long time.

NiNi

I'm gonna give it a 9.75.

Ben

Oh, my God, here she goes.

Shan

[laughs] She’s cheating! That’s just cheating—

Ginny

Cheating!

Shan

—so you can be the most generous.

NiNi

It's not cheating. It is producer privilege. Get it right. [Ginny and Shan laugh]

Ben

Ginny?

Ginny

I gave it a 9.5. Would have been a 10 if they'd given us the kiss, but a truly delightful and worthwhile show.

Shan

Same. 9.5 for same reason.

Ben

I gave it a 9.5 for the same thing. It's a 9.5 from The Conversation.

Shan

But let the record state that NiNi is the most generous. [laughs]

Ben

Truly, we love this. This is one of our favorites. Go watch it right now.

Ginny

I have to rewatch it ‘cause I don't even remember my favorite gags.

Ben

Exactly. You gotta go watch again and get your gags back.

01:26:16 - Outro

NiNi

And with that, we have come to the end of our Japanese Grab Bag. So, what are we thinking about Japanese BL having just run down six of them in a row? Ginny, you go first.

Ginny

Last time I answered this question I was kind of feeling like Japanese BL can do no wrong, and now I feel like, well it can, and has. There have been several less than perfect shows. Still feeling very positive overall. Loving so far—knock wood—some of what's currently airing.

The beautiful density of storytelling that Japanese BL tends to deliver in such a short time, it almost never feels hollow or incomplete. It feels very rich and detailed, and I continue to love and appreciate that.

Ben

Shan?

Shan

I am just living right now. What a time to be alive. Japanese BL coming at us, all the time, consistently. It didn't used to be like this. We used to go long stretches with nothing coming out from Japan. No clue what was gonna come next. And now it’s like, we've got these consistently airing shows, we've got shows that are showing up as a surprise alongside that. I think at one point we had six different Japanese QLs airing simultaneously. That's just an unheard of bounty of Japanese QL content, and I am so happy about it. I hope it continues.

With volume, of course, comes some shows that are not gonna hit as well as the cream of the crop, but I still love the experience of watching all of them, I love getting to dig into this much Japanese content. I'm just so happy and I hope it continues.

Ben

I can't believe we got to talk about nine Japanese projects in a single season of this show. That's ridiculous.

Shan

Wow, right?

Ben

I am having a great time, and I'm actually glad some of these shows were flops or duds. As much as I really like Japanese BL, I'm glad that there was a show that I got to genuinely hate in this run [laughs] so that NiNi could see that I'm capable of hating a Japanese project with my whole heart.

NiNi

I did actually need to see that. That is true.

Ben

I'm havin’ a great time. It's really refreshing that so many different networks were involved. We had shows from about five or six different networks, and even if it feels like we're getting a slowdown in spring, I am very glad that we have more projects on the way. There's at least two more Japanese projects on the horizon, so. I'm in a really good place.

NiNi

There's some stuff in there, I think, that we're going to talk about in the Lagniappe about where things seem to be going next season, but for now, that's going to be it from us.

We out. Say bye to the people, everybody, this time in actual chorus: 1, 2, 3.

Ben

Peace.

Shan

Bye.

Ginny

Bye!

NiNi

Oh my God. Y'all are terrible at this.

[Ginny and Shan laugh]

#ben and nini's conversations #lgbtq #podcast #the conversation #on art #bl series #spring series #japanese bl #sahara sensei to toki kun #sukiyanen kedo do yaro ka #although i love you and you #perfect propose #i became the main role of a bl drama #bl drama no shuen ni narimashita: crank up hen #one room angel #i want to see only you #kimi no koto dake mite itai #Spotify

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