#iwtv is one of those shows. just watch it and then think about it!!

[asgardian--angels]

anyway I am absolutely going to have to stay off of social media from tomorrow evening onwards because I won't be able to watch the episode until Sunday night and this is one episode I absolutely do not want to see spoilers for lmao

[theprincessandthepie]

ough. just watched some fanvids that got me thinking about an old fandom of mine.

[obaaaa]

I've been thinking about Jacob...

I'm very sad about how his recognition has limits, not having the privilege that allows him to be nominated when the show is finally recognized in a major award show. Don't get me wrong it's very sad for everyone involved, the ensemble is impeccable and iwtv deserves to be in these awards without much effort. but i say especially Jacob because he carried the series for two seasons as a lead, shining in every moment of his performance, with his work and dedication, making us feel all kinds of emotions in brilliant moments... But still not good enough for a mainstream nomination! And the way we can still find some weirdos ignoring his role as a lead or questioning his talent... it's heartbreaking.

In the two major awards so far, only one black actor in each, has been nominated as lead drama actor, with the two being different actors… this means that Jacob would need to be the black celebrity who stands out the most in front of voters, which is very sad and unfair! Critics Choices bothers me the most because they watched enough to nominate the series and the supporting actor and not the lead when he would easily fit in among those nominated. In theory, Sam and the show are being rewarded for their work since the first season and Jacob is not. he deserves to be part of this symbol of prestige, especially because his character is the one with the most uncertain future of all, he is the one that the fandom tends to appreciate least and if they writes him off i feel a lot of people wouldn't care, but I really hope that Rolin maintains the promise, I still want to see a lot of Louis being relevant and moving the world of theses vampires and who knows, maybe this recognition for Jacob will eventually come... Anyways i just wanted to vent

Now take the opportunity to vote for him please:

[alwynwitch]

The Talamasca in AMC IWTV: Raglan, Marius, Daniel, Rashid and Sam

Earlier I wrote a post (and an older one) about why I think Raglan James is actually Marius de Romanus or he is Raglan but sent by his superior Marius. @romaroy also made an excellent post about this (and I know @nalyra-dreaming and @chicalepidopterareblogs talked about this theory as well). Now we know vampire Sam Barclay was also working with the Talamasca and I'm connecting the dots.

In summary, in the books the Talamasca is secretly founded by vampire Teskhamen and two spirits. They are the secret elders, guiding it. I think in the show Marius will have this role. And he is already present in the story and watching Armand with the help of Sam and Rashid. There are visual clues that Rashid is actually working for Marius (the painting). Marius probably helped publishing Daniel's memoir (at Roman Weiss Publishing House) and maybe the book Interview with the Vampire.

I will elaborate on these points under the cut.

1) The Talamasca is founded by vampires and spirits and led by them as secret elders

So, in the books vampire Teskhamen and spirits are the secret founders and elders of the Talamasca, who are leading them from the background (without the humans knowing). I think the same will be true in the AMC show, because it is shown that Sam, a vampire, is working with them. This is what Prince Lestat and the Realms of Atlantis says about how vampire Teskhamen is leading them:

"The Order is stable now, quite harmless to you. But we've never stopped watching over them. [...] We know everything. We watch them as they watch the supernatural phenomena of the world. [...] When it comes time for the Talamasca to die, we will dispatch it."

So, the humans who watch the vampires are not the ones in charge, the vampire who is secretly leading them is. 3D-chess game! They guide the humans who watch the vampires:

"They are pitiful mortals, simple mortals, honest mortals, scholars and nothing more. [...] We are guiding them. I told you."

Who is Teskhamen? He is the maker of Marius. And the other founder? Gremt, a spirit who follows spirit Amel (who started the vampire race by going into Akasha) to earth. There he meets Pandora who gives him her philosophical vision that becomes the mission of the Talamasca. Who is Pandora? Marius's first fledgling and his great love.

And the reason why the Talamasca is founded? It is heavily motivated by watching the spirit Amel who is in Akasha. So basically, to watch Those Who Must Be Kept. They are already mentioned several times in the show... (just as the Great Conversion, which is also connected to this!) and Marius is their Keeper. Which leads to...

2) Speculation: in the AMC show Marius will be the secret founder/elder of the Talamasca

Character-wise it makes a lot of sense. The AMC show is very much character-driven and the books have simply too many characters to flesh them all out. Teskhamen is not fleshed out well in the books. So it makes sense to give Marius this role. (And hopefully, Pandora can have a role as well!)

Marius is known not only for being a nerd, bookish and scholarly, but also for spying on others and invading their privacy and boundaries. When Marius is introduced for the first time, in The Vampire Lestat, he tells Lestat he knows every detail of his life and has been spying on him:

"How do you know what's been happening to me?" I asked. Again, he smiled. He almost laughed.

"I know things that happen to our kind all over the world. [...] There are moments when I can hear what is happening with our kind in Rome or even in Paris. And when another calls to me as you have done, I can hear the call over amazing distances."

"And I've heard of you from others. And sometimes you and I have been near to each other – nearer than you ever supposed – and I have heard your thoughts."

"Then you know all that, too." "Yes, everything," he said, dismissing that.

And in his own book Blood and Gold Marius says he is also spying on Armand:

For though I had spied upon Amadeo more than once, I saw nothing in him, but the same heartbreaking sadness that I had known in Venice. 

Yeah, Marius is a Total Creep. And guess who else is creepy? The Talamasca. Their motto is: We watch and we are always there. Marius would fit perfectly with them. He could have placed agents Sam and Rashid near Armand. Big Marius is watching you.

3) The role of Marius and the Talamasca by Daniel's books

Raglan James (Marius?) told Daniel that the Talamasca can publish his book but other publishers would reject it. At the end of 2x08 we see this happening. Daniel's book is published by the Talamasca. And Daniel complains they have been heavily editing it. Why? I think because they want to control the narrative about what will be publicly known about vampires.

Has this happened before? Yes! Daniel's first memoir was published by Roman Weiss Publishing House. Roman Weiss seems to refer to Marius. And the memoir is heavily connected to Daniel's memory loss regarding Armand and Louis. So this is an important clue that not only Daniel and Marius have met before, but also that Marius and his publishing activities are connected to the Talamasca. Because Marius is the secret founder/elder? I think so!

[cbrownjc]

How do you think the unholy family and Armand would react to the sinners movie? Do you think they’d resonate w it? maybe find the vampiric aspect of it funny (like when they watched nosferstu)?

Hello,

Now, for anyone who hasn't seen the movie Sinners, this answer has spoilers ahead. I'm not putting this behind a cut, so if you haven't seen the movie and don't want to be spoiled, then please just scroll past.

And I will be talking specifically about the TV show's version of the IWTV characters, btw, not the book ones -- though I honestly don't think book!Armand's and show!Armand's reactions would be all that different. (Or book!Lestat's and show!Lestat's -- except wrt one specific thing, which I'll note when I get to it).

So, first of all, I don't think they would have laughed at it like they did at Nosferatu, mostly because what they found funny about Nosferatu was how the vampire itself was presented -- the pointed ears, the dead expression, etc. That is what Lestat was basically mocking and what they were laughing at. The vampires in Sinners don't have or do any of that. (Yes, Remmick's nails grow when he "vamps out," as it were, but he doesn't act in any of those exaggerated ways when he does.)

Now, of course, I think Louis would have resonated with it pretty deeply. Especially the moment during the first post-credit scene when Stack talks about (and then the film shows him) watching the sunset for the last time with his brother. Honestly, I think Louis would have been in a flood of silent blood tears during that moment, as I feel it would have strongly reminded him of the last sunrise he ever saw, which was with his own brother, Paul.

Though Louis' snobbishness also would have had him -- mentally at first, and then later, out loud, if a comparison ever came up -- noting how much better and "above" he had been (and was) than the sharecropping background Smoke and Stack came from. Because remember, Louis was very proud of his Louisiana Creole heritage and being descended from free black men instead of former enslaved ones. Louis very much saw himself as better than those who came from the type of background Smoke and Stack came from.

Despite that, though, Louis would have also 100% understood Smoke and Stack's desire to own something for themselves, ie, the juke joint. It all would have very much reminded him of when he owned the Azalia.

And Louis definitely would have resonated with the reveal that the Klan was never going to let the brothers really own the place, and what Smoke did at the end when the Klan came to try and lynch them all in the morning.

And look, I think Louis would have seen some similarity in the pitch Remmick was making about vampirism to the one Lestat made to him about it. The big difference, of course, is that in Sinners' version of vampirism, you basically become a part of a hive mind and lose your sense of individuality; and, of course, there was no love-connection like there was wrt Lestat's pitch. But Louis would still have clocked the remaining similarities, especially about leaving behind a human world where he couldn't be himself freely.

Lestat, being Lestat, wouldn't have gotten a lot (if any) of the cultural appropriation/assimilation themes that were playing out with the vampire part of the story. But I think, on the surface level of it all, he would have understood the idea of losing one's individuality when it comes to being a vampire in the movie's world. And that also would not have appealed to him, either, and where he and Louis would have had agreement on.

But the rest of Remmick's pitch? I think Lestat would, in the end, begrudgingly agree that yes, it was a lot like his own to Louis in the church. Though Lestat would have kept emphasizing that his "become a vampire" proposal to Louis was rooted in actual love for Louis and not because Louis has a special gift -- like Sammy did wrt music -- that he just wanted for himself, like Remmick did.

(Side note: And this is the difference between book!Lestat and show!Lestat, when it comes to this, as I noted above. Because there was no "I love you" made to Louis in the pitch Lestat makes in the book. In fact, Louis flat-out thinks Lestat only wanted him to be a vampire for his money. Lestat, in his own book, corrects that misconception -- which is backed up by the fact that he DID have his own wealth of money back in France that Louis never knew about. But yeah, in the actual moment of Louis' turning in the book, there was no "I love you" appeal, unlike in the show, which is the differing point when it comes to Remmick's pitch in the movie.)

Anyway, I think that all ties into what I think would be Lestat's take away from the film, which is that Remmick basically was like Magnus in his eyes. Forcing vampirism on people, and especially trying to turn Sammy against Sammy's will, just to try and gain the music gift that Sammy had.

That is the part of the film that would have bothered Lestat the most, and the part he would have most made a distinction about in any discussion about his and Remmick's pitches to becoming a vampire.

(And yes, book!Lestat would have seen the Magnus parallel, too, wrt Remmick. But unfortunately for book!Lestat, there's what he did to David Talbot that undercuts any argument he might try to make about not forcing vampirism on someone; even if David did absolve Lestat of it by admitting he did want to be one and just couldn't ask for it, Lestat still felt guilty for doing it because yeah, the similarity is glaringly obvious.)

I think Claudia would have liked the film, but I can't say I think she would have resonated with it on the level that I think Louis would have. And that is simply because she was turned at a much younger age than he was. So there are just some things that he lived through as a human that she did not.

And I can't really say the hive-mind collective consciousness of the vampires in the movie wouldn't have appealed to a Claudia who, as we saw, had desperately been searching for a vampire community of her own in a similar way. I think it might have appealed to her a lot, honestly, as she wouldn't have really seen the problem with the loss of her own unique individuality to that shared-mind collective.

Armand, I think, would have clocked the clut-like hive-mindedness undertone that is also there in the story more than the others. So, for him, Remmick would have reminded him of Santino in that regard. He wouldn't have been overly outwardly emotional when it came to seeing that similarity; he just would have noted it.

And whatever he would be feeling about that would be deflected by the cinéphile-side of him, and discussing the overall film, i.e., how it was shot, aspect ratios, all of that. But still, a quiet reflection on that similarity whenever he rewatches the film.

[grandpizzaponypie]

Now this is my vampire dairies past jumping out to play, but I love vampires and their relationship with the sun.

Sinners really puts it in your face. Even its use of shadows, in the movie you can see multiple times how obscured the vampires faces are. Without light all you have is a world of darkness and shadow. Humans most prevailing fear, the darkness and what it brings. And vampires are living personifications of that.

Iwtv is another media ( in recent time ) that shows no use of a daylight talisman/ ability to ward off the suns effects

One if not the most life giving object in the world, the universe, doomed to turn its back on you for all of your journey with eternity.

Embraced by the night, forever reborn as a child of Selene.

Cause it’s not just that your circadian rhythm is flipped on its head. It’s the complete utter absence of the day, of its warmth, of life. Light burns you, life burns you, and your body demands it to live.

The ability to walk in the shadows is there, watch from afar as other living beings unknowingly flaunt a freedom you once took for granted. Forbid the thought you were changed unwillingly, the beatiful embrace of humanity, of light.

No see you didn’t just loose the sun, a person can loose a pen, a clothing item, a thought. It’s unfortunate, and perhaps you may of loved it, but it can be replaced with time.

No no no, the sun betrays your now. Destroys you. And time cannot fix that, only stands to remind you of it, your loss, your light.

Your immortal undone by the very thing that gave hope in the darkness of generations of people leading to your birth.

And then you think about Stack, about Louis.

“The last time I seen my brother, last time I seen the sun ”

“I don’t miss the sun, the reminders it carries”

I cannot say it enough SINNERS YOU ARE BRILLIANT

Not even gonna begin with the cleansing symbolism of the sun. Thousand year old shadow burned off the face of the earth in seconds. Decade after decade century after centuries spent with only the Moon and stars ? Imagine how many more stars the vampire eye recognizes, nights spent watching the sky grappling with what you now are. How many astronomers were vampires ?

Remmick watching as the sky he knew since before the thought of modern empires change. Constellation shift. Imagine he lived through to the Industrial Revolution fully. Saw those stars disappear, some of the only things left from his era gone.

[blackgirlsuperherorants]

IWTV rant incoming, spoilers for both seasons, be forewarned!

I've been seeing far too much Louis hate online recently, and while I'm of the opinion that none of these vamps are completely innocent by nature, I can't help but notice the disproportionate hate on my boy.

Honestly, it feels a little like fandom racism. And I think AMC IWTV fans have convinced themselves that they're beyond such things because of Jacob and Assad, but idk, everyone turning on the Black one at once seems... yucky?

First, I've seen a lot of "Louis is an abuser". Which... is a wild take on a show where most of the main characters hurt everyone around them?

I think some of it is coming from those who saw the episode in season 2 in which it is revealed that the big fight that Louis and Lestat had in S1 was more even than just Lestat beating up Louis, but y'all... we're not supposed to take S1 as a complete fabrication. A lot of y'all keep saying "oh, we haven't met the real Lestat." Sure, not in person and not from his POV until that ending, but we're not supposed to take it as Louis just lying outright. In the series, different from the books, OUR Louis calls Daniel back in 2022 to give him a more accurate version of the story. In the 1970s, he was just trash-talking Lestat. In 2022, he is remembering Lestat fondly while also remembering all the pain Lestat caused him. He only learns at the end of the season that Armand manipulated some of his memories. And only SOME. We're not supposed to think Armand made Louis misremember everything he and Lestat ever did together. So, we can take S1 as a version of the truth, even if it has some holes or misremembered parts... and in S1, Lestat is a scary guy. When Louis fought him, he was fighting a scary monster. You can't talk about it like he was a human man fighting his human partner because he got a little angry. He was a vampire fighting an even stronger vampire who, as far as Louis knew, was capable of awful things. And Lestat stalked Louis when he was still a human, fed on him without consent, killed the priests Louis turned to in fear... none of that was healthy courtship of a lover. To then turn around and call LOUIS the abuser? That's nuts.

And then there's Armand.

Armand is capable of great physical violence without even lifting a finger. You cannot look at me in the face and tell me that Louis slamming him into a wall was *abuse* after finding out that Armand mindfucked him for 70 years. After y'all saw what Armand did to Daniel. After Armand plotted Louis' death while manipulating Louis into thinking he was loved.

"Louis is an abuser" is a wild take after watching both of those seasons. Louis isn't an innocent princess, either, but compared to the two older vampires, he is the main victim of the story. Both Lestat and Armand emotionally abused him, manipulated him, and physically hurt him, and after all of it, he just ends up alone.

Now, believe me, I love Armand and Lestat. I think they're wonderfully awful people, and so much fun to watch, so fun to love, so fun to hate. But I think so many people left season 2 on their sides completely, just because Louis stood up for himself AND admitted that he was wrong about a lot of what he thought he remembered. And in all honesty, I think a lot of y'all like Sam and Assad because they're hot and... Jacob, while hot, is still Black. With Assad, you can give yourselves the benefit of the doubt because he's still a person of color, but he's a non-black person of color...

And Black people are not afforded softness or innocence, the way non-black people are. So, Louis doing something that's not good makes him not good, even if it's in the context of being a vampire. But Lestat and Armand get "brat prince" and "baby girl" even when they're cruel.

And also, it's not great to put the "abuser" label on someone standing up to their abuser. I dunno. Feels kinda yucky, in that sense, too.

Personally, I try to keep these people's vampire incarnations out of human morality, because being a vampire is inherently immoral because you need to kill to stay alive. So, like, when they physically fight, I can excuse it because they know they can't actually do much harm for the most part, because vampires heal fast and can't be easily hurt. But when... idk, you drop your fledgling from an extreme height, or cut someone's ankles and have them buried in rocks and locked away in a mausoleum... that's actually trying to hurt them (as Lestat admitted.)

And Louis' attempt to kill Lestat was because he and Claudia feared him. None of them disagree with that fact.

Anyway, have the same grace for the Black man that you do for your brat prince. Idk why y'all are trying to make Louis the bad guy. He never even asked to be a vampire. Lestat just wanted to keep him.

[roxxyhoney]

Okay so this post may initially come off as corny to some, but I just had to make a birthday related IWTV post. Today is my birthday, and it's the first one I've celebrated being apart of the fandom. I started watching the show in March of this year and I don't think I'm the only one who feels like their life has completely changed😅. Without a doubt, IWTV is the best series I've ever seen and that's coming from someone who has watched many many shows and has had some obsessions here and there back in the day. From Buffy, to TVD (give or take a season), GOT (years after it ended), and so many more, but IWTV hits me on a whole different level that I could have never imagined.

When the show came out in 2022, I'll admit I didn't give it a chance like I should have, and apart of me is grateful that I didn't, because I don't know how you all survived the year & half hiatus. I almost didn't survive waiting only TWO months for the new season, so I can only imagine how it felt to wait even longer.

If you follow my blog or have seen a random post from me, it's no secret that I am a huge Loustat fan and I have such a tremendous soft spot for Jam. (I've spent an embarrassingly long time watching interviews and clips of them, and I can't get enough). Jacob Anderson and Sam Reid are both incredible and amazing at what they do. I absolutely can't wait for season 3 and all it has to offer. Ready to see some promotional images, videos, trailers, cast announcements, etc.

What's been getting me through this hiatus has been a lot of phenomenal things. Many people in this fandom have been wonderful and have provided great information and interesting theories (some I'm hoping play out). No, I haven't read the books but I do know quite a bit about what goes on and that's thanks to a lot of research and the many people in this fandom.

Sometimes the fandom can be on one and things can get crazy, but for the most part it's been a real treat getting to experience this show with those who love it just as much. From the fanfiction that is now apart of my daily read, to the fan videos, and definitely to the beautiful artwork from the most talented people out there (I think I have a redbubble problem with as much merch I have purchased). It's all just been a real mind-blowing experience, and I've pretty much "fallen into a well with no bottom."

And let's not forget the most amazing cast, show runners, writers, directors, etc. Yes, I absolutely LOVE Jam, but the whole entire cast was made for this show and their acting is astounding. I would love to meet them in real life one day as I've heard nothing but great things.

So, moral of this novel of a post, and if you've stuck with it this far, is I just wanted to say how much I desperately love the show and the talent that this fandom has showcased.

Not only that, I've met one of my dearest friends from this fandom. You know who you are♥️♥️♥️ And words aren't enough to express how much your friendship means to me.

So, I wanted to list below just a few things from myself and others.

If you read fanfiction and you're interested in an au/human loustat, check out my first fic in the fandom: "it's like a best friend, but more." So far, there are only 15 chapters with 5 left to go.

For more of my favorite fics, I've created a fic rec list. This list will be updated throughout.

I have a new loustat video posted. Check it out if you're interested.

A huge shout out to @haflacky for creating this beautiful loustat commission piece. I am still in awe and super grateful.

And if you want to follow me on twitter/x, youtube, and tiktok feel free 🥰

I'm staying lowkey this birthday and spending the rest of the day rewatching both seasons and working on a new chapter.

Until next time ♥️

[lovefrombegonia]

Incoherent IWTV Ramblings:

It's so cool to think that IWTV have vampires and witches. I hope they have werewolves too. That would be cool. But you know what would make it perfection? GHOSTS. Introduce some haunting, evil, literal spirits....how cool would that be! DO IT, AMC. As a nice little treat for me. Can vampires be ghosts too? We had a little "ghostly" lestat but that was just hallucinations. Ooooo Claudia should haunt Armand and Lestat. Imagine Claudia's enraged spirit haunting Claudia the WHOLE TIME, and Armand never told Louis about it! Maybe there are already ghosts and possessions in that MW show (haven't watched it yet, heard it wasn't as good but I still might try the first episode). I have watched the movies though. Queen of the Damned had that weird Lestat too. The only thing memorable from that film for me was Akasha. I hope we get to see her soon! I can't wait to see amc's version, they did so great all the other characters.

Also, season 3 we will see the actual Lestat...the one and only drama queen of vampires. Now that I think about it, it's so funny that he is so majestic, monstrous, mythical, petty, and gorgeous in the memories of Louis and Armand. And the only time we finally see Lestat in the flesh, without anyone's biases...he just...looks like a pretty hobo 😭😭 Granted he was not in his best time but still, it was quite jarring for me. He even used Siri I--I can't. He looked small and pathetic, especially, in front of a now confident, regal and evolved Louis. In the eyes of those who love us, we are so much brighter than we actually are... I love you, stories with unreliable narrator(s).

We also get to see Louis from the eyes of Lestat! How he remembers him. How he thinks of him. That's gonna be another wild ride. Also, yes, some old bratty shenanigans of his. And how he justifies his crash outs. I hope Daniel gives him a very, very hard time. Idek how he will handle this storm of a person but he did great with Armand and for Louis, so...he has had some practice... He can make Lestat realise how much he failed bout Louis and Claudia.

OMG Claudia in Lestat's eyes YESS!!! I would love to see it! It really is a shame how we will never get the actual Claudia though. It's too sad to think about it. She is really gone huh. Just dead. At least we have her journals that speak for her pain and her joys. The forgotten and unforgettable child of two broken vampires. Lestat, needs to tell us why he didn't or couldn't protect Claudia like he did Louis. In the end, he chose to save Louis over her. It's heartbreaking.

P.S. I hope we get some more Armand and Santiago. Does Santiago come back??? Just as a little treat for me ?? PLEASE 🥺 Some nice flashbacks 🥺🥺

[moonlit-void-to-the-far-unknown]

The types of YouTube videos I think the main vampires watch:

Armand:

-art restoration videos (he’s seen a few of Marius’s paintings in them those are saved to a playlist to watch if they come up for auction)

-how it’s made compilations

-Minecraft building videos

-those asmr junk journaling videos

-any video of a master craftsman making something: big on watching like hand made things that have been made for millennia in the same way every time.

-Doll Remake videos, the ones where people take old monster high dolls and turn them into a new character (see moonlight jewel, Dollightful)

-weirdly I think he’s into those old English, bard core song videos.

-restock/cleaning compilations

Louis:

-Music channels

-movie and tv review channels

-painting videos

-weird one but he got into watching slime making videos, don’t ask me why, he just did for like a small period of time

-he enjoys just random video essays on niche topics

-book reviews (he watches like 100 of IWTV when it comes out. Won’t read it yet but will watch a million book tubers review and give 2 hour long video essays on it)

-watches Sams DJ sets (what he has good music)

-generally just kind of flips around to see what tickles his fancy

-got stuck in a weird rabbit hole of watching historical reconstruction videos about New Orleans. It lead him to like watch videos about stories and lore of when he was living in New Orleans, some mention the du lac name, but others are just ghost stories to him now.

Lestat:

-piano playing videos

-cat videos

-vine compilations

-French plays that are redone and put on YouTube

-watches Broadway shows that have like recorded releases. His current fav is cabaret. And Chicago.

-history videos

-music videos, like just whatever era he’s feeling he watches a million of them

-candle making videos (I can’t explain this one)

-historical dress YouTube (don’t look at me and say Lestat wouldnt watch every Bernadette banner video)

-over all doesn’t ‘watch’ YouTube more listens to it

Daniel:

-honestly, I have like no idea.

-political analysis videos

-funny fail compilations

-has watched book reviews of his memoire

-music when he’s doing puzzles

-vampire lore videos

-again idk if he really watches YouTube more he just sort of flips around when nothings on tv

[lizardkingeliot]

rewatching iwtv with one of my partners, and they also love these trainwrecks—but we just finished season 1, and rewatching that scene when Lestat grabs Claudia off the train... I think that may be the cruelest he ever is to her, which is saying a LOT. Do you think we're gonna get extra context about that scene in season 3, or would you bet it's just one of those "yeah Lestat can be Like That" moments? Because it seems pretty hard to square with his ~everything~ in the season 2 finale

Ohhhhh boy I'm so glad you brought this up because @tothevines and I are rewatching right now and when we got to that part my immediate reaction was holy shit Lestat HAS to die now. Like??? Yeah. That was it. The cruelty was truly unmatched. Not only forcing her to go back home but waving her trauma in her face like that... oof.

Lestat is complicated tho!! I do absolutely think we're supposed to take that moment at face value. The reason Lestat works so well for me as a character is because he IS capable of such cruelty. Especially cruelty driven by his deep need for love. Cruelty driven by his need to not be abandoned. The one thing Lestat needed more than anything in that moment was for Louis to not be sad anymore, for him to not fall into the state he was when Claudia left the first time. He knew it would be even worse this time around. He simply couldn't risk it...

I guess in order to square it you have to look at the whole picture of who Lestat is as a character. Which Rolin has said recently we've seen, like... 80% of on screen. He's a lot!!! I don't consider Lestat at his worst to be the full Lestat any more than I consider that sad man in the tattered robe eating rats in a cottage in the finale to be the full Lestat. He is cruel he is a monster he is a big crying baby who needs everyone to look at him and pay attention to him RIGHT NOW he is a lover he is a hopeless romantic he is on his knees begging Louis for just one kiss he's tender he's giving he's a monster who takes great lustful joy in the art of killing...

What's funny is if you asked me to compare Lestat to one real life person I know... I would say my father. At least a few very particular aspects of his personality. I absolutely hate my father. My father is a monster. I haven't talked to him in 20 years and will gladly dance on his grave when he's gone for the things he did to me. I relate to Claudia so much in this sense. But Lestat is also my favorite character on the show. Possibly my favorite character ever at this point??? I love him so much it's insane. And I guess it's because he's fake and my father is very much not that I'm able to feel that way. But that might also be a big reason why I find his cruelty and his most monstrous moments to be so cathartic to watch...

Anyway. Not the point of this ask. The point is HE REALLY IS A LOT!! He is everything. All the good and all the bad. The best and the worst any creature could ever be. He is fully driven by instinct and emotion and LOVE and the need to never be abandoned. And more specifically, to never be abandoned by Louis, the one he loves more than he's ever loved anyone.

[three--rings]

I'm really disturbed by the fact that I'm seeing people post S2ep8 of IWTV still talking about Lestat as an abuser and Louis as a victim, period end of conversation.

Because I feel like we are explicitly told in ep7 and 8 that that is not the case but some people haven't adjusted their thoughts yet.

Now this is a show explicitly about the unreliability of personal accounts and what we see on screen is often proven not to be how things happen. So, obviously things are always up for debate. But.

We are shown the extended scene of what happened before Lestat flew Louis up into the sky to drop him. In S1 we saw that scene from Claudia's perspective, and she just heard crashing and shouting, and then saw Louis thrown through a wall by Lestat before the whole flight thing.

Ep 7 we are shown Lestat's version of events which are Louis physically and verbally attacking him over and over, slamming Lestat into things, while Lestat begs him to stop, warning him that he will fight back and he's afraid of hurting Louis, and Louis merely eggs him on. Then we get Lestat turning the tables and throwing Louis through a wall.

Now, obviously this is Lestat's version and probably a bit biased to be sympathetic to him. But Louis admits Lestat's version of Claudia's turning is the more correct one than his account and he admits to portraying Lestat intentionally as a villain in the interview, so...well I think the show is telling us that our impression from S1 is at least not the whole story.

Ep 8 underlines this with the scene with Louis and Lestat when Louis apologizes for the way he acted to Lestat in the past, saying "I tried to make nights awful with you. I wanted you to suffer."

We also see him throw Armand into the wall in this episode, which I get people feel Armand deserved, but I feel like the conversation around that has been weird as well. Like, people talk about that being a sign that Louis is stronger than Armand, as if physical violence is impossible from someone who is weaker than their victim. But this is also another instance of Louis using physical violence against his partner when (justifiably) angry.

Look, abusive relationships are complicated. Mutually toxic ones even more so. Reactive abuse is a thing, when an initial victim becomes violent or abusive in response to abuse they've received. It's complicated, and I speak from personal experience.

But I very much feel like the show is SCREAMING at the audience that things are not simple and that no one in this scenario is blameless, ESPECIALLY not Louis. He's not blameless in the case of Claudia. He's not blameless in the destruction of his relationship with Lestat. He's not blameless in his relationship with Armand, for all it's built on a lie, because he entered it to fucking make Lestat mad for god's sake and that's a terrible foundation for a relationship.

Raglan James says Louis is the one to really be afraid of. Louis at the end of the season with his "I own the night" speech. Much of the second half of S2 is ABOUT this.

The entire heartbreaking scene with Lestat at the end is Louis owning his part of the responsibility, and that's huge. Lestat accepted his responsibility and apologized on stage in Paris, and now Louis is as well.

So yeah, I think some people need to rethink their attitudes when they call Lestat Louis's abuser and Louis a battered wife. I read that and I go wait, we're not gonna interrogate that at all?

I of course feel at this point I have to put in a bunch of disclaimers about how this is not an anti-Louis post or trying to excuse the violence done by Lestat, blah blah but honestly some people who can only see things in terms of Good and Evil and Guilty and Innocent are never going to appreciate that kind of thing anyway. I just don't know why those people are watching this show, which is entirely about nuance and complicated interpersonal relations that are messy and resist easy analysis, BY DESIGN.

[nalyra-dreaming]

Hey Nalyra, hope you are well.

I’ve been thinking on Lestat & music. We know he plays piano when he lives with Louis & Claudia & we know Gabrielle can play piano. But we also know Lestat couldn’t read till he was a vampire. I’m wondering, could Lestat play piano (or harpsichord or similar) when he was human? And if so, was it just by ear, or could he read music? Or is piano something he took up only when already a vampire?

Both possibilities feel kind of wrong - feels like he ought to have played as a human & like he didn’t/couldn’t have��?

I can’t think if it’s ever mentioned specifically in the books, so I wondered if you might know?

Hmmm.

So I went through the books just now and Lestat can play book canonically when he wakes up again and encounters his about-to-be band mates.

“I went to the electric piano and began to play and to sing. I imitated the rock songs as I started, and then old melodies and lyrics came back to me- French songs buried deep in my soul yet never abandoned-and I wound these into brutal rhythms, seeing before me a tiny crowded little Paris theater of centuries ago. A dangerous passion welled in me. It threatened my equilibrium. Dangerous that this should come so soon. Yet I sang on, pounding the slick white keys of the electric piano, and something in my soul was broken open.“

And, in Prince Lestat there is this part with Antoine:

“Lestat danced in circles as Antoine played, looking up into the smoky light of the crystal chandelier. “That’s it, more, that’s it …” And then Lestat himself would flop down into the gold fauteuil behind the desk and begin writing with superb speed and accuracy the notes that Antoine was playing. What had happened to all those songs, all those sheets of parchment, all those leather folders of music?“

… which does not state that he played himself but he did know how to write music at that point - latest.

From book IWTV we know he played the piano (for himself and Louis and Claudia), but this listening and scribbling down makes me wonder if he picked the skill up through this mimickry, like he did with playing the violin (from Nicolas).

The again that little comment above re the crowd in front of his inner eye might indicate that he played the piano for the crowd at the theater already.

Against that stands the actual acting on stage with Nicolas being the leading musician there - supposedly.

Now the show stated already that Lestat wrote music for Nicolas and I think there are enough hints to indicate that he might indeed have known to play while mortal.

Lestat has a gift to pick up skills - the vampiric gifts enhance that ability (of course), but the basic ability has to be there, too, imho, so yes, he might have watched Gabrielle on the harpsichord in his childhood, maybe.

But I don’t think she taught him, bc either she didn’t because she… well did not (like to read or write), but also the harpsichord was either broken or sold (like the dowry or the jewels), because he sends her a new one. And I don’t think he could write or read it yet when she requested those “keyboard music“ pieces after he‘d sent it.

I think he went by ear while mortal and then probably picked up how to write it later on (possibly while doing so for Antoine?!), at least book canonically.

Show canonically he is older and depending on how long he was an actor or actually with Nicolas he might have picked the basics of it up sooner. And probably from Nicolas then. (But we‘ll likely/hopefully see that in s3 :))

[cbrownjc]

Some spoiler thoughts for episode 2x05

I haven't done a rewatch yet, so these are just some initial thoughts on the episode (spoilers):

Daniel was so not let go after those 3 days. Bank on it.

Daniel already said it -- the drug den thing was a fabrication of his memories being rewritten. But, more to it, Louis' memories of that time were also rewritten. Between that as well as his extensive burn? Who knows what Louis even remembers of the 1970s either.

Neither Louis nor Daniel remember a damn thing of what happened during what would be the Devil's Minion period! (Particually because who knows how long it took Louis to even heal. With those types of burns, I'm going to say a few years at least.)

The show left things extremely open-ended for both Daniel and Louis' characters at the end of the flashbacks which can be filled with whatever the show writers might have ideas about that time period over how many whatever seasons. They haven't locked themselves into one single thing going forward leaving it open-ended that way.

Yeah, even if they want Louis and Daniel to have had sex sometime later. Because again, they both don't remember anything. 😏

But Armand -- Armand does. He remembers all of it. And oh you dear, f-ed up gremlin, I really did think you might not have been responsible for Daniel's memories, but now I'm starting to wonder . . . .

Louis, in 1973, doing what he does in Merrick. Because it was remembering Claudia -- how she manipulated him -- that sent him running into the sun. And even though he tried -- and failed -- to do it in 1973, he's going to fully remember it in the present day too IMO and, this time, he'll succeed at doing it.

Because yes, in Merrick, Louis actually succeeds in killing himself. It's only because of how vampire blood works, and a lot of it being poured over Louis' body, that he is revived. And I really think we are headed toward a "rule of three" wrt this. I think Armand clocked Louis was close to killing himself sometime directly after Paris because of maybe almost really trying so, and that is why Armand put a veil up over Louis' mind.

Because even back in 1973 it's clear that Louis actually didn't remember the bit about Claudia until he drank Daniel's drugged-up blood! Between that and Arman directly saying "She didn't love you!" (which yes, was a line taken directly from toward the end of the IWTV book that Armand says to Louis about Claudia), whatever cloud Louis was actually under in 1973 lifted for a bit . . . enough for him to run out into that sun and almost succeeded -- which I feel we'll learn/see was actually his second attempt.

His third (and final) attempt will be in the finale. And that time will be the one that succeeds. (And then he'll be resurrected/reborn).

"Am I going to be on suicide watch for the next 1000 years?" Yeah, Armand, it looks very well that you are -- will be.

I loved Luke as young Daniel! And I feel very sure we're going to see more of him. He and Jacob had such a bouncy chemistry.

And oh, the scenes between him and Assad as Armand -- so creepy and sinister! Just what it should be at this point in time between Daniel and Armand, at the beginning of things. They even had Daniel held prisoner in the house for three days, the same length of time he was held in the cage in the books. But everything Armand did to Daniel here was so much more unnerving, particularly the chair thing.

So . . . Armand really didn't know the Talamasca was watching then? Hmm, okay show but I'm side-eyeing that one. Because really, he should have IMO.

Though I did notice that Daniel strategically didn't show Louis the pictures of him and Armand taking Daniel out of the house. Which I still don't think makes any freakin' sense, them doing it the way they did, even with Louis being hurt like that. I supposed Louis wanted to make sure Armand didn't hurt Daniel still, but . . . .

And oh, Armand. I can see any and all attempts to defend you wrt what is coming have really slipped away much after this. I know why you are doing all of this, I get it I do, but . . . *sigh*

You should have told Louis that Lestat was saying, "I love you." But you are still so scared of being alone . . . this is all going to bite you back next season Armand. So, so much.

Would I say it's my most favorite episode of the show ever so far? Not yet. But I known it's the one of Season 2 that I'm going to rewatch over and over the most so far. Yes, I love it for the beginning of Devil's Minion that it gave us, of course. But I love that it also really started to show the friendship and trust that Rolin Jones kept saying last season was between Louis and Daniel. Louis and Daniel just being friends is something I never expected going into the show and has become such a favorite dynamic of mine too.

So yeah, it was a wonderful episode. I do think it was hyped up a bit too much in the "most disturbing thing I've ever seen" department because I actually did not find it to be all that disturbing in the horror department. But as far as character development and dynamic building goes it was stellar and revealed some great things, so I can ignore my little nitpicks.

[superhoeva]

just want to ramble about vampires and the stack series i'm working on. words under the cut :)

(5/6/25): for so long, i've been wanting to immerse myself in a story where the horror lies, of course, in the existence of a vampire but also the intense horror of being one. kind of like how the hunger (1983) does–which i feel like explores not the fear in aging because that's actually something to be grateful for–but the fear in aging without dying.

yes, vampires are an incredibly erotic monster, more so than others though i think the price paid for becoming one is just as violent as a werewolf, even if it isn't portrayed as such. ryan coogler even hits on a little bit throughout sinners (spoilers if you haven't seen it or the end), where stack is reminiscing with sammie in the post credit scene. he talks about how that was the last day he saw the sun and his brother. living with those memories and that pain for a lifetime is hard enough. living without the sun and watching your loved ones die while you continue on would be even more miserable. iwtv (i'll only speak for the show since i haven't really red the books) illuminates this perfectly with claudia. being stuck in a body that, for the rest of your extended life, doesn't chang, and at the same time the world around you blooms and dies is dreadful, and i want to treat it as such.

i have many more thoughts but am now about to go add to some family trees for an entirely different story lmao, so i'll just keep this here as a sound board for me (or anyone else) to go crazy over vampires. i have a big fat book on this stuff so my inbox is open as well <3

[foreignswaggersession]

there are definitely iwtv fans who love acting like they care about racism when it comes to fictional characters, but have no issue with being condescending towards actual black and south asian people in this fandom.

Btw making "brown man has mid dick" jokes to prop up lestat is also clownery and it's even more stupid how some people would choose to double down on it after hearing about why it's degrading and uncomfortable. like i couldn't believe the bullshit i was reading from some of these so called "fandom anti racists", but they're clearly not mature enough for this discussion.

sorry for taking so long to respond anon - i wanted to make the posts with screenshots first so i could show my work and not be accused of merely reaching to support my ship. i think most the condescension from these fans comes from their selective memory of the show as filtered through their long-held headcanons, and i wanted to respond by citing the show itself. the fans started claiming louis was never attracted to armand as plainly evident, when the show clearly says the exact opposite, repeatedly. i watched the "armand has mid dick" joke/theory develop in real time and snowball within the pro-louis section of the fandom. it got twisted up in the 'louis hates topping' + 'lestat's dick is uniquely amazing' + 'armand can't satisfy louis' takes, all of which i disagree with. i understand your discomfort anon, it's part of why i started posting in the fandom - 'louis only wants pink dick' also became a thing this season and it broke me (louis didn't get it up for jonah while eating rats for y'all to act like pink dick does anything for him but sure, believe what you want).

to give some credit, i think some of these fans you're talking about started making these 'jokes' in reaction to the overwhelming (and undeserved) sympathy towards armand that dominated the fandom at the time (probably still does tbh). it's fair to point out that armand is not just any brown man but is in fact an extremely manipulative abuser who threatened to kill louis, set him and his family up to get killed, killed his daughter/sister, lied to him about it for years, sadistically let him suffer after a suicide attempt he instigated, erased that memory and covered THAT up for years, and to also suggest that those acts negatively affected louis's attraction to him. and yeah, i too am tired of reading takes about how loving armand was (girl when?) and how louis wasn't nice enough to him 🙄. that said, armand is attractive as fuck in universe and in our reality, so it's weird to pretend louis would not be attracted to him, despite his off-putting nature (see season 1).

most importantly, louis's desire for armand is a key plot point essential to the breakdown of his and claudia's relationship. claudia didn't say "picked another one over me" and "you were lestat's, now you're armand's" out of ignorance - she understands louis better than anyone. it's wishful thinking to suggest that louis suffered in silence for claudia through eps 11 and 13 and only stayed with armand for 70+ years to protect claudia/punish lestat and no other reason. it would have been really great if louis kept his commitment to claudia, probably would have saved several lives...alas, tragedy.

like i keep saying, just say you don't see the chemistry in / can't support loumand, or prefer the chemistry / want to support loustat. but claiming that louis never fell in love with armand prior to claudia's murder - that just is not supported by the show's text.

just fyi, i think saintarmand has a great answer to a similar ask, so i will also refer you to her response here.