#iwtv is one of those shows. just watch it and then think about it!!

[asgardian--angels]

anyway I am absolutely going to have to stay off of social media from tomorrow evening onwards because I won't be able to watch the episode until Sunday night and this is one episode I absolutely do not want to see spoilers for lmao

[feedingicetothedog]

not to harp on an idiot or continue dragging up that discourse but like. the other thing is that to me it feels painfully obvious that that person just wanted a queer vampire period piece that did not engage w the context of the time in which it takes place, the source material from which it was created, or the genre it's a part of as a whole. they wanted to watch a campy, melodramatic, vapid piece of escapism but what they got instead was an extremely confronting narrative about race and domestic abuse that didn't coddle or hold white viewer's hands. you MUST empathize w louis or you won't understand the story and it's painfully obvious that that person simply was unwilling to do that and then refuses to examine why they won't. to them, the reason they feel uncomfortable must be bc the narrative is actually condemning homosexuality and not bc it shows that being gay doesn't exempt a white person from their whiteness or their ability to perpetuate antiblack racism. being in an interracial relationship doesn't negate any latent racism that may exist in a white partner. being queer doesn't negate the ability to enact abuse on your partner and it's not homophobic to point that out or engage w these themes, esp when it's handled as carefully and beautifully as this show does

[obaaaa]

I've been thinking about Jacob...

I'm very sad about how his recognition has limits, not having the privilege that allows him to be nominated when the show is finally recognized in a major award show. Don't get me wrong it's very sad for everyone involved, the ensemble is impeccable and iwtv deserves to be in these awards without much effort. but i say especially Jacob because he carried the series for two seasons as a lead, shining in every moment of his performance, with his work and dedication, making us feel all kinds of emotions in brilliant moments... But still not good enough for a mainstream nomination! And the way we can still find some weirdos ignoring his role as a lead or questioning his talent... it's heartbreaking.

In the two major awards so far, only one black actor in each, has been nominated as lead drama actor, with the two being different actors… this means that Jacob would need to be the black celebrity who stands out the most in front of voters, which is very sad and unfair! Critics Choices bothers me the most because they watched enough to nominate the series and the supporting actor and not the lead when he would easily fit in among those nominated. In theory, Sam and the show are being rewarded for their work since the first season and Jacob is not. he deserves to be part of this symbol of prestige, especially because his character is the one with the most uncertain future of all, he is the one that the fandom tends to appreciate least and if they writes him off i feel a lot of people wouldn't care, but I really hope that Rolin maintains the promise, I still want to see a lot of Louis being relevant and moving the world of theses vampires and who knows, maybe this recognition for Jacob will eventually come... Anyways i just wanted to vent

Now take the opportunity to vote for him please:

[alwynwitch]

The Talamasca in AMC IWTV: Raglan, Marius, Daniel, Rashid and Sam

Earlier I wrote a post (and an older one) about why I think Raglan James is actually Marius de Romanus or he is Raglan but sent by his superior Marius. @romaroy also made an excellent post about this (and I know @nalyra-dreaming and @chicalepidopterareblogs talked about this theory as well). Now we know vampire Sam Barclay was also working with the Talamasca and I'm connecting the dots.

In summary, in the books the Talamasca is secretly founded by vampire Teskhamen and two spirits. They are the secret elders, guiding it. I think in the show Marius will have this role. And he is already present in the story and watching Armand with the help of Sam and Rashid. There are visual clues that Rashid is actually working for Marius (the painting). Marius probably helped publishing Daniel's memoir (at Roman Weiss Publishing House) and maybe the book Interview with the Vampire.

I will elaborate on these points under the cut.

1) The Talamasca is founded by vampires and spirits and led by them as secret elders

So, in the books vampire Teskhamen and spirits are the secret founders and elders of the Talamasca, who are leading them from the background (without the humans knowing). I think the same will be true in the AMC show, because it is shown that Sam, a vampire, is working with them. This is what Prince Lestat and the Realms of Atlantis says about how vampire Teskhamen is leading them:

"The Order is stable now, quite harmless to you. But we've never stopped watching over them. [...] We know everything. We watch them as they watch the supernatural phenomena of the world. [...] When it comes time for the Talamasca to die, we will dispatch it."

So, the humans who watch the vampires are not the ones in charge, the vampire who is secretly leading them is. 3D-chess game! They guide the humans who watch the vampires:

"They are pitiful mortals, simple mortals, honest mortals, scholars and nothing more. [...] We are guiding them. I told you."

Who is Teskhamen? He is the maker of Marius. And the other founder? Gremt, a spirit who follows spirit Amel (who started the vampire race by going into Akasha) to earth. There he meets Pandora who gives him her philosophical vision that becomes the mission of the Talamasca. Who is Pandora? Marius's first fledgling and his great love.

And the reason why the Talamasca is founded? It is heavily motivated by watching the spirit Amel who is in Akasha. So basically, to watch Those Who Must Be Kept. They are already mentioned several times in the show... (just as the Great Conversion, which is also connected to this!) and Marius is their Keeper. Which leads to...

2) Speculation: in the AMC show Marius will be the secret founder/elder of the Talamasca

Character-wise it makes a lot of sense. The AMC show is very much character-driven and the books have simply too many characters to flesh them all out. Teskhamen is not fleshed out well in the books. So it makes sense to give Marius this role. (And hopefully, Pandora can have a role as well!)

Marius is known not only for being a nerd, bookish and scholarly, but also for spying on others and invading their privacy and boundaries. When Marius is introduced for the first time, in The Vampire Lestat, he tells Lestat he knows every detail of his life and has been spying on him:

"How do you know what's been happening to me?" I asked. Again, he smiled. He almost laughed.

"I know things that happen to our kind all over the world. [...] There are moments when I can hear what is happening with our kind in Rome or even in Paris. And when another calls to me as you have done, I can hear the call over amazing distances."

"And I've heard of you from others. And sometimes you and I have been near to each other – nearer than you ever supposed – and I have heard your thoughts."

"Then you know all that, too." "Yes, everything," he said, dismissing that.

And in his own book Blood and Gold Marius says he is also spying on Armand:

For though I had spied upon Amadeo more than once, I saw nothing in him, but the same heartbreaking sadness that I had known in Venice. 

Yeah, Marius is a Total Creep. And guess who else is creepy? The Talamasca. Their motto is: We watch and we are always there. Marius would fit perfectly with them. He could have placed agents Sam and Rashid near Armand. Big Marius is watching you.

3) The role of Marius and the Talamasca by Daniel's books

Raglan James (Marius?) told Daniel that the Talamasca can publish his book but other publishers would reject it. At the end of 2x08 we see this happening. Daniel's book is published by the Talamasca. And Daniel complains they have been heavily editing it. Why? I think because they want to control the narrative about what will be publicly known about vampires.

Has this happened before? Yes! Daniel's first memoir was published by Roman Weiss Publishing House. Roman Weiss seems to refer to Marius. And the memoir is heavily connected to Daniel's memory loss regarding Armand and Louis. So this is an important clue that not only Daniel and Marius have met before, but also that Marius and his publishing activities are connected to the Talamasca. Because Marius is the secret founder/elder? I think so!

[blackgirlsuperherorants]

IWTV rant incoming, spoilers for both seasons, be forewarned!

I've been seeing far too much Louis hate online recently, and while I'm of the opinion that none of these vamps are completely innocent by nature, I can't help but notice the disproportionate hate on my boy.

Honestly, it feels a little like fandom racism. And I think AMC IWTV fans have convinced themselves that they're beyond such things because of Jacob and Assad, but idk, everyone turning on the Black one at once seems... yucky?

First, I've seen a lot of "Louis is an abuser". Which... is a wild take on a show where most of the main characters hurt everyone around them?

I think some of it is coming from those who saw the episode in season 2 in which it is revealed that the big fight that Louis and Lestat had in S1 was more even than just Lestat beating up Louis, but y'all... we're not supposed to take S1 as a complete fabrication. A lot of y'all keep saying "oh, we haven't met the real Lestat." Sure, not in person and not from his POV until that ending, but we're not supposed to take it as Louis just lying outright. In the series, different from the books, OUR Louis calls Daniel back in 2022 to give him a more accurate version of the story. In the 1970s, he was just trash-talking Lestat. In 2022, he is remembering Lestat fondly while also remembering all the pain Lestat caused him. He only learns at the end of the season that Armand manipulated some of his memories. And only SOME. We're not supposed to think Armand made Louis misremember everything he and Lestat ever did together. So, we can take S1 as a version of the truth, even if it has some holes or misremembered parts... and in S1, Lestat is a scary guy. When Louis fought him, he was fighting a scary monster. You can't talk about it like he was a human man fighting his human partner because he got a little angry. He was a vampire fighting an even stronger vampire who, as far as Louis knew, was capable of awful things. And Lestat stalked Louis when he was still a human, fed on him without consent, killed the priests Louis turned to in fear... none of that was healthy courtship of a lover. To then turn around and call LOUIS the abuser? That's nuts.

And then there's Armand.

Armand is capable of great physical violence without even lifting a finger. You cannot look at me in the face and tell me that Louis slamming him into a wall was *abuse* after finding out that Armand mindfucked him for 70 years. After y'all saw what Armand did to Daniel. After Armand plotted Louis' death while manipulating Louis into thinking he was loved.

"Louis is an abuser" is a wild take after watching both of those seasons. Louis isn't an innocent princess, either, but compared to the two older vampires, he is the main victim of the story. Both Lestat and Armand emotionally abused him, manipulated him, and physically hurt him, and after all of it, he just ends up alone.

Now, believe me, I love Armand and Lestat. I think they're wonderfully awful people, and so much fun to watch, so fun to love, so fun to hate. But I think so many people left season 2 on their sides completely, just because Louis stood up for himself AND admitted that he was wrong about a lot of what he thought he remembered. And in all honesty, I think a lot of y'all like Sam and Assad because they're hot and... Jacob, while hot, is still Black. With Assad, you can give yourselves the benefit of the doubt because he's still a person of color, but he's a non-black person of color...

And Black people are not afforded softness or innocence, the way non-black people are. So, Louis doing something that's not good makes him not good, even if it's in the context of being a vampire. But Lestat and Armand get "brat prince" and "baby girl" even when they're cruel.

And also, it's not great to put the "abuser" label on someone standing up to their abuser. I dunno. Feels kinda yucky, in that sense, too.

Personally, I try to keep these people's vampire incarnations out of human morality, because being a vampire is inherently immoral because you need to kill to stay alive. So, like, when they physically fight, I can excuse it because they know they can't actually do much harm for the most part, because vampires heal fast and can't be easily hurt. But when... idk, you drop your fledgling from an extreme height, or cut someone's ankles and have them buried in rocks and locked away in a mausoleum... that's actually trying to hurt them (as Lestat admitted.)

And Louis' attempt to kill Lestat was because he and Claudia feared him. None of them disagree with that fact.

Anyway, have the same grace for the Black man that you do for your brat prince. Idk why y'all are trying to make Louis the bad guy. He never even asked to be a vampire. Lestat just wanted to keep him.

[roxxyhoney]

Okay so this post may initially come off as corny to some, but I just had to make a birthday related IWTV post. Today is my birthday, and it's the first one I've celebrated being apart of the fandom. I started watching the show in March of this year and I don't think I'm the only one who feels like their life has completely changed😅. Without a doubt, IWTV is the best series I've ever seen and that's coming from someone who has watched many many shows and has had some obsessions here and there back in the day. From Buffy, to TVD (give or take a season), GOT (years after it ended), and so many more, but IWTV hits me on a whole different level that I could have never imagined.

When the show came out in 2022, I'll admit I didn't give it a chance like I should have, and apart of me is grateful that I didn't, because I don't know how you all survived the year & half hiatus. I almost didn't survive waiting only TWO months for the new season, so I can only imagine how it felt to wait even longer.

If you follow my blog or have seen a random post from me, it's no secret that I am a huge Loustat fan and I have such a tremendous soft spot for Jam. (I've spent an embarrassingly long time watching interviews and clips of them, and I can't get enough). Jacob Anderson and Sam Reid are both incredible and amazing at what they do. I absolutely can't wait for season 3 and all it has to offer. Ready to see some promotional images, videos, trailers, cast announcements, etc.

What's been getting me through this hiatus has been a lot of phenomenal things. Many people in this fandom have been wonderful and have provided great information and interesting theories (some I'm hoping play out). No, I haven't read the books but I do know quite a bit about what goes on and that's thanks to a lot of research and the many people in this fandom.

Sometimes the fandom can be on one and things can get crazy, but for the most part it's been a real treat getting to experience this show with those who love it just as much. From the fanfiction that is now apart of my daily read, to the fan videos, and definitely to the beautiful artwork from the most talented people out there (I think I have a redbubble problem with as much merch I have purchased). It's all just been a real mind-blowing experience, and I've pretty much "fallen into a well with no bottom."

And let's not forget the most amazing cast, show runners, writers, directors, etc. Yes, I absolutely LOVE Jam, but the whole entire cast was made for this show and their acting is astounding. I would love to meet them in real life one day as I've heard nothing but great things.

So, moral of this novel of a post, and if you've stuck with it this far, is I just wanted to say how much I desperately love the show and the talent that this fandom has showcased.

Not only that, I've met one of my dearest friends from this fandom. You know who you are♥️♥️♥️ And words aren't enough to express how much your friendship means to me.

So, I wanted to list below just a few things from myself and others.

If you read fanfiction and you're interested in an au/human loustat, check out my first fic in the fandom: "it's like a best friend, but more." So far, there are only 15 chapters with 5 left to go.

For more of my favorite fics, I've created a fic rec list. This list will be updated throughout.

I have a new loustat video posted. Check it out if you're interested.

A huge shout out to @haflacky for creating this beautiful loustat commission piece. I am still in awe and super grateful.

And if you want to follow me on twitter/x, youtube, and tiktok feel free 🥰

I'm staying lowkey this birthday and spending the rest of the day rewatching both seasons and working on a new chapter.

Until next time ♥️

[moonlit-void-to-the-far-unknown]

The types of YouTube videos I think the main vampires watch:

Armand:

-art restoration videos (he’s seen a few of Marius’s paintings in them those are saved to a playlist to watch if they come up for auction)

-how it’s made compilations

-Minecraft building videos

-those asmr junk journaling videos

-any video of a master craftsman making something: big on watching like hand made things that have been made for millennia in the same way every time.

-Doll Remake videos, the ones where people take old monster high dolls and turn them into a new character (see moonlight jewel, Dollightful)

-weirdly I think he’s into those old English, bard core song videos.

-restock/cleaning compilations

Louis:

-Music channels

-movie and tv review channels

-painting videos

-weird one but he got into watching slime making videos, don’t ask me why, he just did for like a small period of time

-he enjoys just random video essays on niche topics

-book reviews (he watches like 100 of IWTV when it comes out. Won’t read it yet but will watch a million book tubers review and give 2 hour long video essays on it)

-watches Sams DJ sets (what he has good music)

-generally just kind of flips around to see what tickles his fancy

-got stuck in a weird rabbit hole of watching historical reconstruction videos about New Orleans. It lead him to like watch videos about stories and lore of when he was living in New Orleans, some mention the du lac name, but others are just ghost stories to him now.

Lestat:

-piano playing videos

-cat videos

-vine compilations

-French plays that are redone and put on YouTube

-watches Broadway shows that have like recorded releases. His current fav is cabaret. And Chicago.

-history videos

-music videos, like just whatever era he’s feeling he watches a million of them

-candle making videos (I can’t explain this one)

-historical dress YouTube (don’t look at me and say Lestat wouldnt watch every Bernadette banner video)

-over all doesn’t ‘watch’ YouTube more listens to it

Daniel:

-honestly, I have like no idea.

-political analysis videos

-funny fail compilations

-has watched book reviews of his memoire

-music when he’s doing puzzles

-vampire lore videos

-again idk if he really watches YouTube more he just sort of flips around when nothings on tv

[cbrownjc]

Some spoiler thoughts for episode 2x05

I haven't done a rewatch yet, so these are just some initial thoughts on the episode (spoilers):

Daniel was so not let go after those 3 days. Bank on it.

Daniel already said it -- the drug den thing was a fabrication of his memories being rewritten. But, more to it, Louis' memories of that time were also rewritten. Between that as well as his extensive burn? Who knows what Louis even remembers of the 1970s either.

Neither Louis nor Daniel remember a damn thing of what happened during what would be the Devil's Minion period! (Particually because who knows how long it took Louis to even heal. With those types of burns, I'm going to say a few years at least.)

The show left things extremely open-ended for both Daniel and Louis' characters at the end of the flashbacks which can be filled with whatever the show writers might have ideas about that time period over how many whatever seasons. They haven't locked themselves into one single thing going forward leaving it open-ended that way.

Yeah, even if they want Louis and Daniel to have had sex sometime later. Because again, they both don't remember anything. 😏

But Armand -- Armand does. He remembers all of it. And oh you dear, f-ed up gremlin, I really did think you might not have been responsible for Daniel's memories, but now I'm starting to wonder . . . .

Louis, in 1973, doing what he does in Merrick. Because it was remembering Claudia -- how she manipulated him -- that sent him running into the sun. And even though he tried -- and failed -- to do it in 1973, he's going to fully remember it in the present day too IMO and, this time, he'll succeed at doing it.

Because yes, in Merrick, Louis actually succeeds in killing himself. It's only because of how vampire blood works, and a lot of it being poured over Louis' body, that he is revived. And I really think we are headed toward a "rule of three" wrt this. I think Armand clocked Louis was close to killing himself sometime directly after Paris because of maybe almost really trying so, and that is why Armand put a veil up over Louis' mind.

Because even back in 1973 it's clear that Louis actually didn't remember the bit about Claudia until he drank Daniel's drugged-up blood! Between that and Arman directly saying "She didn't love you!" (which yes, was a line taken directly from toward the end of the IWTV book that Armand says to Louis about Claudia), whatever cloud Louis was actually under in 1973 lifted for a bit . . . enough for him to run out into that sun and almost succeeded -- which I feel we'll learn/see was actually his second attempt.

His third (and final) attempt will be in the finale. And that time will be the one that succeeds. (And then he'll be resurrected/reborn).

"Am I going to be on suicide watch for the next 1000 years?" Yeah, Armand, it looks very well that you are -- will be.

I loved Luke as young Daniel! And I feel very sure we're going to see more of him. He and Jacob had such a bouncy chemistry.

And oh, the scenes between him and Assad as Armand -- so creepy and sinister! Just what it should be at this point in time between Daniel and Armand, at the beginning of things. They even had Daniel held prisoner in the house for three days, the same length of time he was held in the cage in the books. But everything Armand did to Daniel here was so much more unnerving, particularly the chair thing.

So . . . Armand really didn't know the Talamasca was watching then? Hmm, okay show but I'm side-eyeing that one. Because really, he should have IMO.

Though I did notice that Daniel strategically didn't show Louis the pictures of him and Armand taking Daniel out of the house. Which I still don't think makes any freakin' sense, them doing it the way they did, even with Louis being hurt like that. I supposed Louis wanted to make sure Armand didn't hurt Daniel still, but . . . .

And oh, Armand. I can see any and all attempts to defend you wrt what is coming have really slipped away much after this. I know why you are doing all of this, I get it I do, but . . . *sigh*

You should have told Louis that Lestat was saying, "I love you." But you are still so scared of being alone . . . this is all going to bite you back next season Armand. So, so much.

Would I say it's my most favorite episode of the show ever so far? Not yet. But I known it's the one of Season 2 that I'm going to rewatch over and over the most so far. Yes, I love it for the beginning of Devil's Minion that it gave us, of course. But I love that it also really started to show the friendship and trust that Rolin Jones kept saying last season was between Louis and Daniel. Louis and Daniel just being friends is something I never expected going into the show and has become such a favorite dynamic of mine too.

So yeah, it was a wonderful episode. I do think it was hyped up a bit too much in the "most disturbing thing I've ever seen" department because I actually did not find it to be all that disturbing in the horror department. But as far as character development and dynamic building goes it was stellar and revealed some great things, so I can ignore my little nitpicks.

[lizardkingeliot]

rewatching iwtv with one of my partners, and they also love these trainwrecks—but we just finished season 1, and rewatching that scene when Lestat grabs Claudia off the train... I think that may be the cruelest he ever is to her, which is saying a LOT. Do you think we're gonna get extra context about that scene in season 3, or would you bet it's just one of those "yeah Lestat can be Like That" moments? Because it seems pretty hard to square with his ~everything~ in the season 2 finale

Ohhhhh boy I'm so glad you brought this up because @tothevines and I are rewatching right now and when we got to that part my immediate reaction was holy shit Lestat HAS to die now. Like??? Yeah. That was it. The cruelty was truly unmatched. Not only forcing her to go back home but waving her trauma in her face like that... oof.

Lestat is complicated tho!! I do absolutely think we're supposed to take that moment at face value. The reason Lestat works so well for me as a character is because he IS capable of such cruelty. Especially cruelty driven by his deep need for love. Cruelty driven by his need to not be abandoned. The one thing Lestat needed more than anything in that moment was for Louis to not be sad anymore, for him to not fall into the state he was when Claudia left the first time. He knew it would be even worse this time around. He simply couldn't risk it...

I guess in order to square it you have to look at the whole picture of who Lestat is as a character. Which Rolin has said recently we've seen, like... 80% of on screen. He's a lot!!! I don't consider Lestat at his worst to be the full Lestat any more than I consider that sad man in the tattered robe eating rats in a cottage in the finale to be the full Lestat. He is cruel he is a monster he is a big crying baby who needs everyone to look at him and pay attention to him RIGHT NOW he is a lover he is a hopeless romantic he is on his knees begging Louis for just one kiss he's tender he's giving he's a monster who takes great lustful joy in the art of killing...

What's funny is if you asked me to compare Lestat to one real life person I know... I would say my father. At least a few very particular aspects of his personality. I absolutely hate my father. My father is a monster. I haven't talked to him in 20 years and will gladly dance on his grave when he's gone for the things he did to me. I relate to Claudia so much in this sense. But Lestat is also my favorite character on the show. Possibly my favorite character ever at this point??? I love him so much it's insane. And I guess it's because he's fake and my father is very much not that I'm able to feel that way. But that might also be a big reason why I find his cruelty and his most monstrous moments to be so cathartic to watch...

Anyway. Not the point of this ask. The point is HE REALLY IS A LOT!! He is everything. All the good and all the bad. The best and the worst any creature could ever be. He is fully driven by instinct and emotion and LOVE and the need to never be abandoned. And more specifically, to never be abandoned by Louis, the one he loves more than he's ever loved anyone.

[three--rings]

I'm really disturbed by the fact that I'm seeing people post S2ep8 of IWTV still talking about Lestat as an abuser and Louis as a victim, period end of conversation.

Because I feel like we are explicitly told in ep7 and 8 that that is not the case but some people haven't adjusted their thoughts yet.

Now this is a show explicitly about the unreliability of personal accounts and what we see on screen is often proven not to be how things happen. So, obviously things are always up for debate. But.

We are shown the extended scene of what happened before Lestat flew Louis up into the sky to drop him. In S1 we saw that scene from Claudia's perspective, and she just heard crashing and shouting, and then saw Louis thrown through a wall by Lestat before the whole flight thing.

Ep 7 we are shown Lestat's version of events which are Louis physically and verbally attacking him over and over, slamming Lestat into things, while Lestat begs him to stop, warning him that he will fight back and he's afraid of hurting Louis, and Louis merely eggs him on. Then we get Lestat turning the tables and throwing Louis through a wall.

Now, obviously this is Lestat's version and probably a bit biased to be sympathetic to him. But Louis admits Lestat's version of Claudia's turning is the more correct one than his account and he admits to portraying Lestat intentionally as a villain in the interview, so...well I think the show is telling us that our impression from S1 is at least not the whole story.

Ep 8 underlines this with the scene with Louis and Lestat when Louis apologizes for the way he acted to Lestat in the past, saying "I tried to make nights awful with you. I wanted you to suffer."

We also see him throw Armand into the wall in this episode, which I get people feel Armand deserved, but I feel like the conversation around that has been weird as well. Like, people talk about that being a sign that Louis is stronger than Armand, as if physical violence is impossible from someone who is weaker than their victim. But this is also another instance of Louis using physical violence against his partner when (justifiably) angry.

Look, abusive relationships are complicated. Mutually toxic ones even more so. Reactive abuse is a thing, when an initial victim becomes violent or abusive in response to abuse they've received. It's complicated, and I speak from personal experience.

But I very much feel like the show is SCREAMING at the audience that things are not simple and that no one in this scenario is blameless, ESPECIALLY not Louis. He's not blameless in the case of Claudia. He's not blameless in the destruction of his relationship with Lestat. He's not blameless in his relationship with Armand, for all it's built on a lie, because he entered it to fucking make Lestat mad for god's sake and that's a terrible foundation for a relationship.

Raglan James says Louis is the one to really be afraid of. Louis at the end of the season with his "I own the night" speech. Much of the second half of S2 is ABOUT this.

The entire heartbreaking scene with Lestat at the end is Louis owning his part of the responsibility, and that's huge. Lestat accepted his responsibility and apologized on stage in Paris, and now Louis is as well.

So yeah, I think some people need to rethink their attitudes when they call Lestat Louis's abuser and Louis a battered wife. I read that and I go wait, we're not gonna interrogate that at all?

I of course feel at this point I have to put in a bunch of disclaimers about how this is not an anti-Louis post or trying to excuse the violence done by Lestat, blah blah but honestly some people who can only see things in terms of Good and Evil and Guilty and Innocent are never going to appreciate that kind of thing anyway. I just don't know why those people are watching this show, which is entirely about nuance and complicated interpersonal relations that are messy and resist easy analysis, BY DESIGN.

[murfpersonalblog]

IWTV S2 Ep6 Musings - Loumand's Power Imbalance: RANT (Spoilers)

I'm seeing so many trash takes in the tags and it's driving me nuts.

Armand 👏 Made 👏 His 👏 CHOICE! 👏

The show said it TWICE, and yet I still see a plethora of braindead takes about Armand/Arun being "forced" by "Maitre/pimp!Louis" to do things. 🤦

Like, ISTG we're clearly not watching the same show, y'all.

Since when did Louis being a pimp or asserting "dominance" or other delusions of grandeur get him anywhere or give him anything that wasn't immediately taken away again by people with ACTUAL power? Louis NEVER had any real power to begin with!

Lou couldn't even convince some schmuck art dealer to buy his effing photos! He couldn't even convince his own boyfriend/companion to make a dang baby with him! Come on, y'all--what POWER (control, influence, effectiveness, coercion, sway) has Louis ever actually had!?!?

Sure, Lou owned all those businesses--and every single one got shut down by the government's Ordinances (via the city council the Alderman & Tom Anderson were board members on). Sure, Lou had money & paid all the bills at DPDL Estate, but his mother had the power to badmouth him so bad that his own nieces never wanted to be around him, and Levi took his place as Florence's son--"you're not welcome in this home!" Sure, Lou's a big bad vamp w/ super strength "remember what I did to that door, Grace?," but Grace was the one who told him to "get out!;" "mah sistah buried me aliiiiive~!" Sure, he was "Daddy" Lou, but when Claudia ran away he couldn't do eff all to stop her or make her come back till SHE decided to come back. Sure, Lou said he was "equals in the quiet dark," but Lestat always had the final say--he's even testifying to an entire judge & jury in the court case that's gonna get Claudia killed & Louis LITERALLY buried alive--cuz ARMAND MADE A DEAL WITH SANTIAGO & THE COVEN & LESTAT! Everyone's making moves w/out Lou having a EFFING clue.

Y'all really think Armand just stood there & let Santiago kidnap Lou's family cuz LOUIS turned Armand into his slave!; or cuz LOUIS had some unfair advantage over Armand?!

Episode 7 was given its title for a frikkin REASON, y'all.

Armand claimed he "couldn't prevent it." Armand. The 500 year old vampire so powerful that HE was the only one in the coven who could set vampires on frikkin fire, and was the ONLY one who could freeze entire rooms full of people AND VAMPIRES.

Somehow, Armand's suddenly SO powerless, SO helpless, SO DOMINATED, that couldn't stop those SAME vampires from abducting his beloved companion ("I want you more than anything in the world") and his daughters? PLEASE.

Coven Master Armand CHOPPED OFF NICKI'S HANDS when he got TIRED of dealing with a mentally ill guy whom LESTAT left him with! Sound familiar!? Only this time it's not Louis' HANDS--it's his DAUGHTERS!

ARMAND WANTS THOSE TWO WENCHES GONE GIRL! He sold them down the frikkin river; and in return was able to guarantee that Louis wouldn't be killed right alongside them, merely buried alive so Armand could dig him up later; "eternity in a box."

Armand passively shut the door and stood by as the coven burned Claudia (after Armand had chopped her HEAD off & sewed it on an adult's body)--and only made his move once all the sentences had been meted out; cuz in classic Armand fashion: HE LET IT HAPPEN.

ARMAND WANTED THAT WHOLE COVEN GONE, GIRL! He's done this crap before! WITH LESTAT!

And Armand was busy wheeling & dealing with Lestat, too!

Lest only complied--COMPLICIT--cuz he'd been starved, delirious & hurt; and Armand tricked him into thinking he could/would help. Les threw Claudia under the bus to protect Lou, but was still horrified that she'd been killed, cuz ARMAND could've prevented it--his fledglings shouldn't've been held to the Great Laws in the first place!

This is a MASSIVE game Armand's playing--the whole point of his gaslighting's that he throws the same thing he does back in ppl's faces to throw them off his scent, "to protect me, from YOU, Mr. Molloy...from my shame...my cowardice." He hides behind illusions--not just with the Mind/Spell Gift, but also through the veneer of innocence: a black-winged devil with the innocent face of a cherub.

People are SO blinded by the mean Black man (whom they don't even like ANYWAY) Dom'ing Armand (FOR SHOW, btw!); and equally distracted by their failure to even parse Armand's birthname Arun (I don't see any of y'all saying Amadeo was book!Armand's "slave name," and I DEFINITELY don't see any of y'all saying ANDREI was his slave name, either!); that they've totally missed how Loumand plotted TOGETHER to concede power to Santiago and "give" him the Theatre--thoroughly ignorant of the fact that Santiago was already being called Maitre by the whole effing coven--he'd already won his coup!

You can't give someone something you never had, Louis!

And their plot was for ARMAND'S BENEFIT; so they could get rid of Santiago, destabilize/dismantle the coven so they'd scatter (just like Lestat caused them to do); and so Armand could decide if he wanted to stay Maitre or not--LETTING ARMAND CHOOSE what HE wanted to do with HIS coven and THEIR lives. Lest we forget: vamps don't just LEAVE covens--in the books, after Les ruined the Paris coven, Armand didn't just LET them leave--he set them on FIRE and KILLED THEM; just like Louis would do--as Armand sat back and LET IT HAPPEN.

He knew Lou'd go ballistic; AMC!Armand even TAUGHT Louis the Fire Gift; literally handing Louis the tools with which to destroy his coven for good!

This show constantly emphasizes the POWER Armand held over Louis & Claudia (& Madeleine)'s lives; and his autonomy, agency & authority over them; despite the roleplay Loumand was up to as they SWITCHED positions; cuz Armand FAILED at running the coven.

All Armand wanted was to be with Louis, but Lou kept dragging Claudia (& Lestat) with him. So Armand was tryna get rid of them--he's Sleeping in Claudia's coffin, cuz he wants to take HER spot; "it's BLISS!"--and he overplayed his hand.

Louis couldn't even kill himself in peace without Armand interfering--cuz at the end of the day, it's not up to Louis what he wants or does. Armand PRETENDS to be Louis servant, "Rashid," his subby bottom boy, cuz Armand WANTS to go along with it all--too shameful for his COMPLICIT culpability; and too scared to live alone.

I saw people saying "the victim became the victimizer; cycles of abuse; etc etc," like omfg--how is THIS man Louis' victim!?

I've said it before though: Armand genuinely loves Louis, and has good intentions. But let's not pretend Armand's some innocent bystander to Louis' schemes, ffs!

[foreignswaggersession]

there are definitely iwtv fans who love acting like they care about racism when it comes to fictional characters, but have no issue with being condescending towards actual black and south asian people in this fandom.

Btw making "brown man has mid dick" jokes to prop up lestat is also clownery and it's even more stupid how some people would choose to double down on it after hearing about why it's degrading and uncomfortable. like i couldn't believe the bullshit i was reading from some of these so called "fandom anti racists", but they're clearly not mature enough for this discussion.

sorry for taking so long to respond anon - i wanted to make the posts with screenshots first so i could show my work and not be accused of merely reaching to support my ship. i think most the condescension from these fans comes from their selective memory of the show as filtered through their long-held headcanons, and i wanted to respond by citing the show itself. the fans started claiming louis was never attracted to armand as plainly evident, when the show clearly says the exact opposite, repeatedly. i watched the "armand has mid dick" joke/theory develop in real time and snowball within the pro-louis section of the fandom. it got twisted up in the 'louis hates topping' + 'lestat's dick is uniquely amazing' + 'armand can't satisfy louis' takes, all of which i disagree with. i understand your discomfort anon, it's part of why i started posting in the fandom - 'louis only wants pink dick' also became a thing this season and it broke me (louis didn't get it up for jonah while eating rats for y'all to act like pink dick does anything for him but sure, believe what you want).

to give some credit, i think some of these fans you're talking about started making these 'jokes' in reaction to the overwhelming (and undeserved) sympathy towards armand that dominated the fandom at the time (probably still does tbh). it's fair to point out that armand is not just any brown man but is in fact an extremely manipulative abuser who threatened to kill louis, set him and his family up to get killed, killed his daughter/sister, lied to him about it for years, sadistically let him suffer after a suicide attempt he instigated, erased that memory and covered THAT up for years, and to also suggest that those acts negatively affected louis's attraction to him. and yeah, i too am tired of reading takes about how loving armand was (girl when?) and how louis wasn't nice enough to him 🙄. that said, armand is attractive as fuck in universe and in our reality, so it's weird to pretend louis would not be attracted to him, despite his off-putting nature (see season 1).

most importantly, louis's desire for armand is a key plot point essential to the breakdown of his and claudia's relationship. claudia didn't say "picked another one over me" and "you were lestat's, now you're armand's" out of ignorance - she understands louis better than anyone. it's wishful thinking to suggest that louis suffered in silence for claudia through eps 11 and 13 and only stayed with armand for 70+ years to protect claudia/punish lestat and no other reason. it would have been really great if louis kept his commitment to claudia, probably would have saved several lives...alas, tragedy.

like i keep saying, just say you don't see the chemistry in / can't support loumand, or prefer the chemistry / want to support loustat. but claiming that louis never fell in love with armand prior to claudia's murder - that just is not supported by the show's text.

just fyi, i think saintarmand has a great answer to a similar ask, so i will also refer you to her response here.

[nowhere-to-go-but-here]

I completed my rewatch of Iwtv today today, and three things struck me. One, I was more deeply moved by the Loustat hurricane moment than the first time. I understood that this was not about Louis somehow magically and unreservedly forgiving Lestat for Claudia's death ( which he still played a part in, after all) just because of Daniel's reveal. That bothered me the first time around.

But this time, I realised that Louis returns to him because the entire experience of recounting the tale to Daniel had helped him see his relationship with Lestat with more nuance and understanding. Helped him realise there was so much love there that he needed to acknowledge, in spite of all the horrible things they'd done to one another. The reveal and break up with Armand was the impetus that drove him to seek out Lestat after all these years. But that hug was about a whole lot more.

The second thing that struck me was about Armand's reaction to Daniel's bombshell reveal. The reason why there is no anger there - only panic and fear of losing Louis- is because some part him has been expecting/waiting for this to be revealed for 77 years. From the meeting with Lestat in Magnus' lair to the moment when he picked up the unmarked copy of play in an earlier episode of S2... he was checking, bracing himself for the lie to be uncovered. For *8 decades*. And now that the moment is here, all he can think is 'no no no no no it's actually happening, oh god I'm going to lose him'.

The third thing is the imagery of the floating glass bookcases shattering when Louis flung Armand against the wall. Others have pointed out the fact that those bookcases, which Armand can reach easily but Louis can't are a metaphor for Armand's control, his caging of Louis. And for them to shatter in that moment when Louis breaks free... pretty neat symbolism huh?

This show, man... each time you watch you come away with something new. So richly layered and nuanced.

[adamnablelittledevil]

The overall colorblidness, microagressive, tone deaf, racially insensitive or however you want to call it behavior of this fandom was already awful enough, but PEOPLE GOING TO A FUCKING PLANTATION, taking pictures with toys (a funko pop of white slave owner Louis btw) as if they're at Disney World and posting it so casually (further info here, here and here)? I don't even think you can go lower than that. That's one of the biggest offenses I've seen on fandom ANYWHERE, of any show/movie/book. I'm appalled.

And I'm glad this escalated enough to the point even British media outlets are writing about this, because WE SHOULD ACKNOWLEDGE IT and people should deal with the consequences of their actions, though I feel for Jacob, Delainey, black fans in general and SPECIALLY NOLA natives will probably see or have already seen this shit. Specially the latter that have to deal with it on a daily basis, because even to this day the generational traumas of their ancestors and themselves are still exploited. The fact they may have WITNESSED IT IN PERSON themselves is disgusting and infuriating.

You wanna learn about racism and slavery in the U.S.? Turn to books and documentaries, if you can't afford them or find any in our country, if you can't ship international products to where you live because access to these things can be complicated sometimes, then read a blog or watch YouTube videos for free (just please check their credentials to know they're reliable and a professional, like an actual historian and check ACTUAL black sources and not white people who may undermine such topics).

You genuinely wanna honor and pay your respects to those people? Then, go to the places YOU'RE ACTUALLY ALLOWED to go, don't focus on taking pictures for social media, just sit down, reflect on where you're standing, pray for those souls, find a local charity that you can donate money to and/or work as a volunteer for a little bit IF YOU REALLY WANT TO HELP, because local communities don't need spoiled individuals who will just be lazy and fillers or cause mess and give them more work to do.

ALSO, shame on people who did see this and said nothing, specially if they spend countless time shitposting, sharing memes or talking about white characters and ships. This happened in late OCTOBER and it's been almost a whole MONTH. And somehow this is only being spread NOW because a British newspaper made an article about it. It should never have happened in the first place, but we should've acknowledged it by ourselves and not just because it went public? If you search the tag, you will LITERALLY ONLY FIND F O U R POSTS ABOUT IT, tops. AND IT'S BEEN ALMOST A FUCKING MONTH. Does this fandom need the Daily Mail or whatever source that was to act with some decency? Are you doing it to look good or out of genuine indignation, respect and empathy for black people, specially NOLA fans? I know some people genuinely didn't know because they avoid certain blogs, tags, block, blacklist and try to curate their dashboards in the best possible way to avoid the mess, follow thousands of blogs and/or a new to the fandom, which is completely understandable, but this WOULD HAVE totally blown up way SOONER if as a collective this fandom cared more. We're talking about some pretty popular accounts, some with 16,000+ followers FOR FUCK'S SAKE. I REFUSE to believe this wouldn't have gone viral sooner if thr fanbase actually wanted to combat racism in the IWTV/TVCverse. Anyway, MAY THIS FINALLY BE THE WAKE UP CALL THIS FANDOM DESPERATELY NEEDS, shamefully way too late, yes, but at least better late than never.

P.S. Sorry if this isn't articulate enough, has mistakes, typos etc, I'm on my phone, English is not my first language and I'm way too pissed to think straight.

[nalyra-dreaming]

I have a couple of questions if that’s alright? A couple fo things have been bugging me and I don’t know who else to ask. I feel like I’m going crazy because I keep seeing the idea what Armand is entirely to blame for anything misremembering/untruths that Louis has about Lestat. But, is there evidence of him putting false memories in Louis head? I know he’s edited stuff out but what did we explicitly see him change or are we assuming that and waiting for the reveal next series?

Secondly, how are the coven awake to burn Claudia and Madeline? And how is Louis awake to burn then back? Aren’t they all basically unable to resist the call of sleep when the sun’s up?

Thanks for all the work you do in this fandom of answering questions! It’s so amazing having fans like you around willing to discuss things.

Hey!

Glad you like! I'll try to explain my view on this :)

So. For the misremembering:

It's not that easy. To say it was "all" Armand, I mean. Obviously there's hints (and some proof). The "broadcasting" question (the salesman), Louis seemingly not remembering the fire (Daniel prompting via the Talamasca files). Louis quoting word for word what has been planted in his brain (episode 2x05). Louis remembering the fight at the trial... and what we saw in 1x05 then not matching - for example. Louis telling us of what he remembers happened at the trial... and then the trial script contradicting. Louis telling us of Claudia's turning... and then later admitting to himself that he was wrong. Because...

... there's also the odyssey of recollection. The fallacy of memory. These vampires do forget with time. Events blur, dates are hard to pin down. The dates in season one for example are off by a year- all of them.

In the books (and outside of them, by Anne's statement), it is later said that Louis... well, lied. Exaggerated. There's snide comments in-universe. Because he was being petty, and angry. Think the interview in San Francisco in the show. Those were direct IWTV book quotes(!). The show has heavily pulled up the memory aspect instead, and shifted (some of) the blame to Armand by making him "tinker" (as Assad called it) with Louis' mind and memories in an effort to not lay it all on Louis. This tinkering (in and by itself) also happens in the book, Armand makes Louis turn Madeleine there, for example. Brings down a "veil" between him and reality when they come for them before the trial, or later when they travel. Lies to him, tells him Lestat is dead.

I don't think Armand is to blame for everything. For me the scene with the misplaced photos was very interesting for example, because Armand's frustration there read as real to me - it was nothing he did.

But Armand does a lot. Before SF, before that suicide attempt, he ... lets Louis go on killing sprees, resigns himself to clean up after Louis. After that suicide attempt however (at some point after it, depending on whether some of or all of DM happened or not) that stops. Louis does not go off and kill anymore. Louis stays, more or less broken. I have called that the "Stepford Wives" phase, and I think that fits, because Armand is constantly readjusting Louis. And Louis is not relieved when Armand reveals himself in 1x07.

You can see the behavioral shifts in the show between the episodes, too. The missing diary pages of episode 1 that Louis wants to have? Never mentioned again. The fact that Louis was up during the day, and then suddenly has to sleep till sundown while Armand tells his little fanfic story of Lestat. The using the same words and phrases. Assad said that Armand is constantly spinning his web (his words) and so he constantly readjusts... not necessarily out of a malicious desire - no, ultimately he just clings to what he has.

So no, Armand is not to blame for everything. But I personally think the show might have given us a lot of hints already, I spoke about the "hair" aspects (and what Louis got "wrong") here. There's links to the "train scene" that is unlikely to have happened as told, as well as the "hotel scene" in there as well. Louis knowing he can invite Daniel to break through was only recently called "a lifeline"

Which brings us to another aspect, the intent of the tale. Because Louis wants to protect Claudia (as he should), and that also influences the way he tells the tale - of course. Makes some things seem inevitable, for example.

And, last but not least, I can only recommend reading this article by Linda Codega - who wrote about Armand being rather important in November 22 :)

I don't think we will get big reveals à la "Oceans Eleven" or something. I think the show will expect us to think for ourselves there... 😅 And there will be clues, lots of clues... little puzzle pieces, for us to put together.

As per your other question:

The show has softened the "death sleep" to ... let's say "coffin sleep".

Louis tells "us" about it when he goes to burn them down, that the vampire's world narrows down to the coffin when they lock themselves in (we see a bigger version of that when he and Armand go to bed in their darkened bedroom). And that is why he can - more or less - surprise them.

That is not quite book canon :) BUT! The movie also softened that up already, we had Claudia tippy-toe along the sunbeams to Louis there, for example.

And in the show the vampires obviously can be up when the sun has risen, even during midday.

AND, to be fair:

The show has (already) introduced Fareed Bhansali, the "vampire doctor". He is a character from the later books, and he... wanted to free the vampires from the death sleep.

And, tongue-in-cheek: Guess he did it^^.

[platoapproved]

As a lesbian to a lesbian. Do you ever feel like youre missing a MAJOR point of the iwtv characters? Dont get me wrong im DEF obsessed with them and love them dearly. But the other day i saw a picture pf sam reid with short hair and was like “ah!! Scary!! What did they do to my boy!! I cant look at him like That” and then. I realized that hes actually probably very conveniently attractive like that?? AND AND AND like when everyone is just obsessed with these characters im like “oh hell yeah theyre pretty!! What interesting character design i cant look away! Wait wdym you wanna WHAT TO THAT MAN” like i just FORGET so often and i think my experience is fundamentally different from some peoples lmao

In the nicest way possible dear anon - can't relate to this at all! I am another person whose experience is fundamentally different to yours, even though we are both lesbians 😂 Life's a rich tapestry and all that.

For me, when I am engaging with fiction - whether it's a TV show or novel or anything - a HUGE part of the joy is fully leaving behind my own mind and identity and experience of the world. Simply put, there is no 'I' for me when I am watching IWTV or thinking about it or engaging with the fandom. It's completely disconnected from me as a human being and my experiences in the real world and the real life relationships I choose to seek out. Which is great! Because I love getting a break from those things and plunging head-first into something different and moving and narratively compelling.

So no, I don't really feel like I'm missing anything at all!

I would in fact easily and gleefully categorize myself as one of the 'everyone' who is 'just obsessed with these characters'! And I don't see that as incompatible with being a lesbian at all!

I LOVE when my mutuals, however they identify, tag gifsets/pics/whatever of IWTV men with things so filthy they could strip paint from a wall. I love that tumblr is a place where people can gleefully share their unhinged horny thoughts about fictional dudes and it makes me so happy seeing people expressing themselves in that way. There is no 'what do you mean' for me! I'm over here like, "yeah? tell me more! 😏"

The idea that any of this would be unavailable to me because I am a lesbian is very strange to me, and honestly a little sad. It seems limiting to me. It's one thing to just not enjoy / connect with something, but... idk. 🤷‍♀️