#it's the fans and viewers and how they interpret the play

[sergeifyodorov]

reminder that team usa could've easily made this about honoring the gaudreaus (and afaik they did for a while!). but no. they had to make it about [redacted] and his bullshit and turn this tournament into another sideshow instead. so yeah. as an american, i'm glad team usa lost LMFAO. fuck them. (and honestly? i'm personally side-eying *ANYONE* who was cheering for team usa yesterday too). -confused blogger anon.

To be honest it wasn't entirely in their control innit

They decided to make a show of themselves against Canada specifically and the chuds in government who want to annex us took it as a metaphor and a sign. If they leaned into the political rhetoric or not it would've been taken that way anyway. To reject playing for the fascists would be to reject playing for the national team.

The thing is national teams don't represent players so much as they represent ideas (to a lesser extent major league teams do too, especially when they're placed within epicentres of smaller cultural groups ie Montreal) of the group denoted by that jersey. The idea and the team is the same. You can't reject the idea (eg the annexation of a former ally) without rejecting the team (taking off your team usa jersey and going somewhere else). Johnny Gaudreau was a close friend of most of the team and I'm sure on a personal level they played largely or entirely for him, but at the same time the idea of the us national team defeating (taking over) the Canadians made that original goal obsolete.

[gacha-incels]

“Arknights/Limbus Company/etc is obviously very political, why are these incels playing it?” Here’s a longer answer if you’re interested.

If you haven’t been watching gacha communities for the past decade this might be confusing to you, but these guys see the games as just apolitical stories with a majority or all-female cast being there to titillate the male viewer. They are for his consumption. It’s why in both eastern and western “gacha game” communities you can see them talking about how these games are better for having “beautiful” anime women versus the hideous hags of western media. I’ve seen so many people asking “how are incels playing a game with so many strong female characters?” They see them not as “strong female” characters but rather “eyecandy made for me”. tbh when it comes down to it I wouldn’t call any of the designs in these games absolutely groundbreaking for the anime genre they’re aiming for. Arknights even follows the standard “fully animal faced-guy” and the female equivalent “small featured anime animal girl with some fur”. This doesn’t mean the designs are bad or you’re foolish for enjoying them of course, there are a lot of fun ones. Anyway, you can see the same sentiment in the majority of anime communities as well. Like do you think that stereotype of an anime nerd who “loves 2D women but hates 3D women” means he’s a feminist because the 2D girl is still female?

To be frank, after some of the actions taken by these companies (ex. the firing of women for posting anything vaguely feminist) can you honestly say an “apolitical game with anime babes” is not the way the games are often enjoyed? The company Yostar who publishes Arknights in Korea literally wrote a statement saying the game is apolitical and calling feminism a dividing force. If the publisher can say something so flippantly like this just to appease their incel fanbase, how can the game be making any meaningful, hardline progressive political statements? I am of course not saying this renders any positive message you get from these games moot nor am I saying it’s impossible for the writers to be passionate about their work, I’m just relaying the thoughts of the incels/“gacha gamers” playing them because there seems to be confusion. What I’m writing here doesn’t mean the worst interpretation of these games are their defining interpretations. I’m trying to explain how the games that many people see as being antithetical to incel beliefs can have these same men as high-spending fans.

Gacha games are unique in the world of consumer media in their extremely close and constant relationship with the consumer. You have to not only love each character’s design (and sometimes story) but also be willing to drop serious gambling money to “buy” them every single month. It’s like merchandizing on steroids. I think the term “whale” has been watered down since younger kids have started playing, but these people spend thousands per patch. Over the years I’ve heard about multiple games like this being sustained by just a couple of high spenders. In 2018 there was even a western news article about a man who had spent $70k+ on FGO. The publisher can’t rock the boat too much to displease the consumer too many times without risking EoS. Every character design and story of a gacha game is affected by this FIRST while any artistic intent comes second.

A Korean woman who had lost her job due to similar “feminist hunting” tactics wrote an article describing the way these incel men think. I posted it here and part of it summarized: the men that play these games see themselves as buying and “owning” the female characters in gacha games, who are often dressed and presented to them in a highly sexualized manner and will obey their commands. In the same way they “own” these 2D women, they also want to own the thoughts of the real live female illustrators who work on the games. Therefore, if these women have expressed ideas that the male gamers find upsetting, they will be angry she doesn’t conform to what they want like the servile 2D girl and do everything to get her fired (this is where she mentions Limbus Company as the most recent example of this happening).

You can argue for some of these games, maybe the girls aren’t dressed super provocatively and give (you) shit instead of being a simpering doll, but in the end it’s not like they can physically walk away or stop speaking to you. For the “waifu” hunter guy it’s just a different type of anime girl to collect.

The stories in these games are generally not what gets targeted as much by incels. In gacha “gamer” communities, especially the Korean incel ones, their main concerns are: how revealing are the summer swimsuits? How many women work for the company designing characters? and related, Are the male characters designed for women or for men and do they “look gay”? If you search through this blog, you can see them directly speaking about these things in regards to their hatred of Genshin Impact and Star Rail. All of these have also been encapsulated in the original Limbus Company incel attack: they hated that the summer female character looked more “clothed” (wearing a skintight suit instead of a bikini) than the male summer character. They thought the collar necklace and open shirt on the male summer character meant he was “a slave” for the female viewers, so obviously it was designed by a woman. When they learned a man designed and illustrated those characters, they searched to find a female illustrator who worked in the game and went after her instead. These guys WERE FANS that played the game beforehand and didn’t think anything in the story was upsetting enough to attack the company about. They were familiar enough with the works of Project Moon to name their little group after an antagonizing force in one of PM’s previous (non-gacha) videogames. And Project Moon saw them as such a significant part of their gacha fanbase that they wrote an immediate apology and fired the artist. How do these actions in reality inform their fiction and the interpretation of it? Getting this out of the way, they were NOT in any danger, the “fans” were not clamoring to get in their offices or camping outside, they were let in and calmly had a meeting with some employees at the office. You can still find photos of them goofing around, the ridiculous write up they brought with them and a transcript of the conversation. This was not a “guy shows up at Mihoyo’s offices with a knife” situation. In the end it was a financial and moral loss for the studio with many new and longtime fans completely dropping the games and Limbus Company taking one of the biggest financial and D/MAU drops for a gacha I’ve ever seen. You can read more regarding the ramifications of this here, this post is already pretty long for this website anyway.

Again I’m not writing this to shame anyone who plays these games, loves their characters or enjoys their stories. I don’t really care either way, and I obviously find the genre interesting or else I wouldn’t have been monitoring it and the fans for a decade. I just want to shine a light on the thoughts of the more “incel” gamers that play some of these games since I have seen a lot of genuine confusion as to why they would play them. In the future my aim is to write a more in-depth post about these issues, their history and the way antifeminists think.

[itsabouttimex2]

Hi, I wanted to say that I really liked reading your analyses when it comes to flaws in lmk's writing, along with the ranking of the villains that you did. I hope it's alright to ask for advice, since I'd like to make a romantic self insert story with Macaque, but the thing is that I'm worried on how to portray the platonic relationship between Sun Wukong and Macaque. While we still don't know entirety of how Macaque died in his fight with Wukong, I've already made decision to address both of their faults that caused their relationship's downfall. What I'm worried about is how to portray it clearly that it's both of their faults, without making them too OOC. Some fans have tendency to chose sides with their whole situation, which is something I'd like to avoid. But I'm not sure how to avoid that, which is why I'd like to ask for your advice on it.

Sun Wukong and Macaque

A Rundown on the Fallout

This is an interesting question, and thank you for asking! Given how much of their personal backstory is left to viewer interpretation, I’ve included a little bit of mine.

I think the big, big thing that people miss with the Sundial/Shadowpeach fallout is how severely uneven it is. But give me a minute to get there…

Probably the biggest of Past!Sun Wukong’s biggest issues is what I’m going to call “externalizing”. (This isn’t the appropriate way to use that word, but I’m at a loss here) Wukong is bright and loud and happy- and very, very desperate for attention.

Sun Wukong’s literal first action in the world was to excitedly barrel towards a group of monkeys. His first words end with him asking plainly “Don’t ya like it?!” like a child begging for praise from a parent. He shows off to Subodhi’s other students. He eagerly tells a chaotic story to his sworn brothers and is implied to play it up to some degree for attention.

This is direct opposition to Macaque.

Past!Macaque is quiet, withdrawn. He has no ties to other people. He doesn’t pipe up. He’s not bold or confident. So what does Macaque do?

Well, just about jackshit. There’s only TWO members of the six-strong brotherhood that he actually shares interactions with- Sun Wukong and Peng.

Azure Lion? Yellowtusk? Demon Bull King? Macaque literally doesn’t interact with any of them even once. Nobody calls him brother. Flash to the modern day, and he’s the last person Azure bothers looking for.

He doesn’t joke, or tell stories, or try to bond with the rest of the crew. This is literally how he responds to being called a coward and a rodent by a “brother”.

By mildly frowning.

(Side note: WUKONG IS NOT IN THE WRONG FOR NOT DEFENDING MACAQUE FROM PENG. Macaque never went above a mild frown and never acted hurt or upset beyond this little facial expression. If he was sad ((WHICH HE WASN’T)) or seethingly angry ((WHICH HE WASN’T)) then it’s on Macaque and Macaque alone for not defending himself. Wukong is not his brother’s keeper, etc.)

(Macaque, even in the past, was a lot stronger than he’s often given credit for. Did this remark make him unhappy? Yes. Did it break or ruin him? No.)

He has no friends or ties to the past. No mentor and no fellows and no troop. No one likes him. No one wants him. No once cares about him… except for the Monkey King.

All he has is Sun Wukong.

So already they’re on this MASSIVELY unbalance scale where Wukong has a title and a troop and a heaping handful of immortalities and a band of brothers and a sacred weapon and a mountain and and and!!!

And… Macaque has… his shadow powers?

Yeah, they’re not on level footing. Wukong could pull out of the brotherhood and away from Macaque and throw down his staff and still have so, so much!

And Macaque, if he left Wukong, would have next to nothing.

Sun Wukong is his one good thing. His one star in a dark sky. Sun Wukong is all that Macaque has.

Already is this an EXTREMELY unhealthy dynamic, where you’re basically living for a second person without them putting that devotion back towards you-

Which is exactly what causes the downfall of this relationship.

Macaque doesn’t speak up for or against anything. He’s just willing to sit pretty and play along… because it’s for his one good thing.

Because it’s for Wukong.

Even if his brothers don’t like him, or he gets mocked, or he doesn’t want to play along, Macaque grits his teeth and stays- because it’s for Wukong.

Because he can’t lose his one good thing.

So he’ll do anything.

And that’s the problem.

The Monkey King isn’t asking him to shut up and play nice. Nor does he ask for blind loyalty. And he doesn’t ask his friend not to voice his concerns and fears.

Macaque is choosing to do these things.

Because he can’t lose his one good thing.

Macaque is choosing to “internalize” (again, this isn’t the appropriate way to use that word, but I’ve set a precedent here) his thoughts and feelings.

Macaque pulls everything inside, and Sun Wukong pushes it all out.

The First Crack: Uneven Expectations

Macaque is not honest with his thoughts and feelings. He never actually expresses the way he feels to Wukong, which leads to the Monkey King never understanding his feelings. But you know what Macaque DOES do?

He gently and softly nudges the idea of maybe kinda I dunno potentially not taking over the entire Celestial Realm???

But he doesn’t say no.

Macaque never expresses himself or genuinely tries to talk Wukong out of overthrowing the Jade Emperor. He just hints at the idea and EXPECTS Wukong to pick up on his thoughts and wants without any real effort on his own part. He puts ALL of the onus onto Wukong to understand and reach out to him, without putting that amount of time and effort in himself.

Macaque wants to be understood without putting on the effort to be understandable, which isn’t fair to Wukong at all.

The Second Crack: Unfairly Divided Consequences

Wukong is solely punished for the crimes of six men, and left to rot while his sworn brothers run free.

(Quotes pulled from prior analysis)

Sun Wukong is trapped. For attempting to overthrow the Jade Emperor, he is sentenced to FIVE HUNDRED YEARS trapped under a mountain.

Let me elaborate for anyone who doesn't sympathize.

For the next five hundred years, Sun Wukong will be 75% immobile and alone under a nearly lightless mountain. There will be no noise, no stimulation, and no company. He will suffer in silence, and he will suffer alone.

But you know who ISN'T being punished for an attempt to overthrow the Jade Emperor?

Macaque.

Now, this is funny. Wukong leads a six strong band of brothers against the forces of the Celestial Realm, but only ONE of them faces consequences for the rebellion- himself.

Even five hundred years later when Wukong is set free and traveling with his fellow pilgrims...

No one else has faced consequences for the rebellion. All five of Wukong's "brothers" (Azure Lion, Peng, Demon Bull King, Yellowtusk, and yes, Macaque) get away scot-free to continue their plans and schemes.

I would be pissed. You would be pissed. There is not ONE SINGLE PERSON in this world that would NOT be pissed about how blatantly unfair this is.

(End Quote)

This is especially important if you read Azure Lion’s about Wukong “surrendering” as the truth (he is an unreliable narrator), then it’s likely his brothers were spared as a result of his surrender. And still, he’s all alone in this cavern, bored and uncomfortable and angry.

And probably very sad and lonely, too.

The Third Crack: Peach Symbolism

When Wukong wants to cheer Macaque up, what does he do?

Engage in snacking and physical affection that leaves the two snuggled up side by side on a sunny beach.

Seems like the Monkey King has a pretty good read on his best bud!

Now, how does Macaque repay the favor?

After an unknown period of time spent in the extensively explained condition above leaves Wukong angry and frustrated, Macaque comes by to-

Jam a peach into Wukong’s face and act like nothing is wrong at all.

Sun Wukong doesn’t want to pretend that nothing is wrong. He doesn’t want to act like everything is okay. He wants to be free.

But Macaque has put on an act this entire time. He’s played along and kept quiet and complacent and been “good”, and even now is he acting.

So he presents, of all fucking thing, a peach.

Sun Wukong likes peaches, yes. They’re likely a comfort food from a time long past, a constant in his long, long life.

(I bet that on Flower Fruit Mountain there’s a special strain untainted by the push of genetically-modified fruit that’s grown to be chock-full of sugar. I bet it’s his absolute favorite thing in the world to eat. I bet he shared it with the Pilgrims. I bet he wishes he could share it with them again. I bet.)

They’re a symbol of massive freedom- freedom from strife and pain and death.

And having that symbol presented to him so plainly and pretend-happily?

It’s just the final nail in his diminishing coffin of self-control.

The Fourth Crack: Wukong Lashes Out

So, as was unavoidable from the start of his imprisonment- Wukong snaps and rejects the peach, mocking Macaque for trying to cheer him up from a five-hundred year sentence with fruit and a false smile.

But he doesn’t stop there-

The Monkey King continues to castigate his best friend, blaming him for things that are the shoulderweights of six men.

Except he’s not really lashing out at Macaque directly- he’s just lashing out, and Macaque happens to be the nearest target.

There was bound to be a breakdown eventually. No matter how you look at this scenario, anyone would snap. There’s literally not even one person who wouldn’t break down eventually.

And then, Macaque lashes right back, and says something very interesting-

The Fifth Crack: Macaque Lies and Run Away

(Censored quotes taken from same analysis)

No, he didn't.

Macaque nudges the idea. He implies the idea. He hints it, quietly and softly.

"You're really going through with this?" Is not him shutting down the idea of fighting the Celestial Realm.

It's him being a coward and trying to dance around the issue without a direct confrontation.

Not even once does Macaque say: “We shouldn't fight the Jade Emperor."

He directly LIES to present himself as being the better person during this fight.

Macaque is lying to his best friend’s face to make himself look better in this utterly pointless argument, then prepares to run away and never comes back- but not before placing literally all of the blame for EVERYTHING onto Wukong’s shoulders.

(End quote)

Final Crack: YOU are responsible for MY behavior!

Finally, Macaque makes a few last “Nothing is ever MY fault!” statements to Wukong, consisting of:

“You dragged everyone else into this!”

“You put yourself here, not me!”

Which are BOTH blatantly untrue, given that

1. The Azure Lion is actually the one who started the Brotherhood in the first place

2. Macaque is a grown man who makes his own decisions

3. The rest of the Brotherhood are grown men who make their own decisions

4. Macaque went along with the plan willingly

5. The rest of the Brotherhood went along with the plan willingly

6. Everyone took part in the attempted rebellion of their own will and volition

Everyone is responsible for the end result, including Macaque who was there literally every step of the way, but he doesn’t want to accept that!

Macaque wants to be a perfect little victim who can wipe his hands of the matter, and who better to blame…

Then his “one good thing”, who is now utterly helpless and incapable of doing anything about it?

Macaque only finally lashes out and speaks up when there is literally no way to face recourse for it- which is proof of the cowardice lurking inside him.

There’s a big reason that Wukong calling him out for “running away” hits so hard and is what finally prompts Macaque into speaking up and tries to absolve himself of all blame.

Because Macaque knows that Wukong is right.

The first thing that Macaque does when things go wrong is to prioritize himself and run away. (Just remember how he responded to unleashing the Samadhi Fire.) Then, when all is said and past and it’s time to tell the tale, Macaque will whitewash himself- which he does blatantly in “Shadowplay”.

So when his gilded “one good thing” finally cracks the image Macaque built up by being a fallible person who stumbles and slips up and makes very human mistakes?

He abandons ship, and allows his flaws to start sliding out- now Macaque is “externalizing”, which he’ll continue to do to the present day- taking everything inside and putting it out- by projecting and slandering and lying and trying to hurt innocent people.

Essentially, Macaque puts his best friend on a pedestal and of his own will and volition plays the role of “lackey” for nothing in return without being asked, then ditches him over a fight and returns to a much unhealthier group of “friends”, while Sun Wukong is left to serve a lonely sentence as punishment. But because the Monkey King receives punishment and does his time, Wukong is allowed a chance at redemption under the loving and caring eye of his Master, Tang Sanzang, and manages to redeem himself, where his guilty brothers going free leads them to continually rack up crimes that leaves them on the receiving end of the pilgrims wrath.

Okay I’m tired now love you guys ❤️❤️

[npookie0]

Hello!! I really like your KC works!! Can I please request some stuff for Ronin with MC who's a streamer that frequently streams horror games and who met Ronin through one of their streams instead of the chat?

Thank you! Have a nice day!

From behind the screen.

Ronin was bored, so like any other person would so, he ended up browsing the Internet. He didn't have anything in particular in mind. He ended up browsing through a streaming website, looking at the 'horror' category. No one caught his eye, at least until he noticed one game that made him crackle; Escape The Devil's Butcher.

"Hah, so I have games now?" He shook his head, entering the stream.

In front of him there was a person, shouting when the most stereotypical interpretation of how The Butcher would look; literally a HUGE man, tats an' all, with butcher's knives in both hands. The mask was the only thing they got semi-right, because his face was masked at least.

"Fuck! Guys there's no way I will escape death now." The streamer said very loudly, they were laughing at how shitty the game's graphic were, but were shouting whenever 'The Butcher' got too close to them in game. Damn they're fuckin' funny alright. Ronin thought to himself as he clicked the follow button. Soon an alert of new follower popped up, scaring the poor streamer and getting them killed.

"Jeez... Thanks for the scare... goreboy? I hope I got it right!" They said, smiling at the screen and reading the chat, answering some of the fans' comments or questions.

goreboy: yeah you Did goreboy: why're ya playing a game About the butcher? goreboy: and How did find It?

He typed out, waiting for the answer. There were roughly two hundred viewers and the chat was moving rather slowly, he would for sure be seen in the chat.

"Oh? One of my viewers sent me a link to it, may whatever bless me for it not being the "PARASOCIAL" situation or I would just go find the real The Butcher as my last stream." Their joke made Ronin laugh out loud, ah they were so effortlessly amusing, maybe he could stay for longer as their viewer?

goreboy: what Games are you Usually playin'?

He looked at the streamer's face, not really interested in the game they were playing at the moment.

"Wow you really are interested with the questions, maybe you're the stalker?" They chuckled, reaching their hand out for something, that something being a bottle of water.

goreboy: can't A guy be curious?

He watched them roll their eyes at his answer, open their water bottle to drink from it and put it back to where it was before.

"Oh yeah very curious I fear." They fixed their seating. "I normally play horrors, or stupid visual novels if my viewers want to traumatize me with their content." They answered and clapped their hands. "Okay gang, time to return to this thing." And with that they returned to playing.

Ronin was a regular guest to Y/N's streams, he even became a supporter. Why wouldn't he show support to his favourite streamer anyways?

Being able to sit back and watch a stream or just interact with the streamer themselves after a kill or an annoying client in the workshop was a good way to relax. He didn't have to do anything, just sit and watch.

While he was cleaning the blood off of his hands he heard a nullification coming from his phone, got him curious so after drying his hands he checked it out. Turns out it was a private message from the streamer themselves.

[streamer-name🎸⋆⭒˚｡⋆]: Hey goreboy! Sry if it's super random, just wanted to reach out to one of my mot loyal viewers!

Interesting, Ronin thought to himself and replied.

goreboy: oh? i'm Graced with the presence of none Other than Y/N's? really makes a guy Feel special.

[streamer-name🎸⋆⭒˚｡⋆]: Oh I forgot how cocky you are in the chat emo boi🙄

goreboy: yeah, yeah, are you Going to run Away now that you left me The heartfelt message?

[streamer-name🎸⋆⭒˚｡⋆]: And break your little heart? Nah, I'll keep you company ♥

Oh that made Ronin laugh, they didn't know who he was, and that made it all even funnier...

He couldn't wait for the day he would be able to see their face when they find out the truth.

Headcanons <3

Ronin is your biggest supporter. He's in the middle of a kill, but you started your stream? Guess the murdered guy is also watching while Ronin cuts him open.

Once you start dating Ronin is a guest on your streams, your fans are eating it up. Ronin is a tease, makes sure to disturb you while you're playing games and then laughs at you when you die or get jumpscared.

When you're sick Ronin bans you from even touching your computer "You're sick darl, we don't need you ending up in a hospital." He would say and lay in bed with you - just to hold you of course (he will never admit to being touch starved)

If you're a vtuber he will buy the vtuber's merch just to annoy you and show off to his friends.

[heraldofcrow]

SOTE haters be like: "boohoo it is all FromSLOP's fault that fans are babyfying Marika and making Miquella a villain, had they not written Marika as an actual person with the story instead of a caricature and had they not put Miquella through tragic descent instead of wholesome hopepunk stuff they literally never did, fans would magically stop ignoring obvious canon clues to make a character into what THEY want instead!!! Bad writing!!!" 🤦‍♂️

So, "good writing" is writing characters like bland caricatures that have nothing to do with how real humans and world we live in are? Honestly I have no idea what's going on in people's heads when they blame realistic writing (nobody is BORN evil @ naive idealism doesn't work on humans so you either give up or force people to be friends) for the takes they dislike

There is this thing that happened in the Elden Ring fandom that keeps reminding me of the DS2 backlash, but it’s not gamer rage over mechanics and the physical experience of the game — it’s that newer (?) (probably not) wave of nonsense that is permeating countless other fandoms that people recently blame on “puriteens.”

Basically, those younger people that haven’t had enough experience to see the world beyond black and white, Tik Tok-based morals; where everything has to be moderated and pure enough, progressive enough, GOOD enough to meet some high standard of ethics.

I’m honestly relying on the Soulsborne fandom as partial proof that this issue HAS gotten worse in some ways because of Elden Ring…but I wouldn’t be surprised if it started and flourished in places like the Undertale fandom, where the game itself trying to teach a valuable moral lesson resulted in younger people that played it becoming extremely hostile online towards anyone who dared to take the Genocide route to see the outcome.

People who wanted to see the end of that route were going to learn the lesson of the game. They were MEANT to learn that lesson and find out why it was the morally unsound path to take within the context of the story. There were also people who could take that route every time just to enjoy the tragedy of it or simply because it was more interesting.

That was absolute heresy to the puritan fans who wanted to control other players and condemn them for even thinking of committing that crime against the poor characters. They didn’t want the “lesson to be learned,” because in their minds, who would ever willingly go kill to learn that killing was bad?? Oh no, anyone who would do that is evil already!

(Forget that all of it wasn’t real of course…or that the Genocide route was essentially just a regular video game lmao.)

And even since then, I’ve seen this blossom in so many big fandoms.

“Just because I like doesn’t mean I condone blah blah”

Nobody should have to say that statement ever again.

Nobody should have to rigorously defend the satire of “my mass murderer did nothing wrong.”

And more people should understand that even the worst of the worst!!…the… *gasp* justifiers!! of fictional war criminals are often just viewers swayed by the villain or antihero’s philosophy or reasoning for revenge. Or mayhaps they were charmed by devilish good looks. How could the young ladies do this??? /s

The people screaming “Thanos was right!” or whatever, are usually….90% of the time…not mass murders in real life. Some of them might be assholes or creeps, and sure, you might have to smack them upside the head with “Hey! Your justification of this character within the story is a bad interpretation and rooted in bias or misunderstanding!”

Yeah, that can be a problem. Those people can be troublesome in the heat of fandom drama. But then again…toxic fans of any kind can be this way too. Toxic shippers are often some of the cruelest, most actively harmful members of fandoms, and even then…cases where people start getting murdered en masse is rare, mind you. Lol.

Fiction is not what affects reality in a negative way, it’s people’s IDEAS about fiction that affect reality in a negative way…IF they choose to not be responsible with how they react or behave.

That’s it.

Their interpretations, their takeaways, their decisions on how to engage with it or be inspired by it, all of this CAN be negative, yes.

The Genocide route in Undertale did not inspire anyone to go commit genocide, but it did create a wave of fandom puritanism that caused harm to others. And that’s ironic isn’t it? That shouldn’t be the case, right? A story that intended to share a moral lesson about why harming others is wrong ended up inspiring people to harm others in fandom. How does that make sense?

Well, it doesn’t if you blame the game and story.

It DOES make sense if you observe how people were choosing to interpret it. The story itself does not have to be taken seriously, engaged with, or even acknowledged. It only has as much power as you give it.

FromSoftware being blamed for people CHOOSING to treat Marika like she did nothing wrong or people not seeing the signs of Miquella’s downfall is taking the responsibility away from fans for how they engaged with the story.

Now, having said all this. Bad writing does exist and authors absolutely can mislead an audience. That’s a fair complaint and that’s one case where fiction causing people to react negatively lies partially with the fault of the writer, but it’s a spectrum in that situation as well. As fans, we still have a responsibility to not act like animals or treat each other poorly when bad writing upsets us.

I don’t believe the DLC was badly written. I think Marika’s story was beautiful and Miquella’s downfall was built up to reasonably well while still creating a nice mystery for us. I think FromSoftware is smart in leaving gaps in the story for us to fill, because that leaves us with room to decide what we think happened.

But even if they didn’t. Even if the DLC was objectively just bad…it sucked ass….that still in no way justifies what’s been going on this fandom since it released. That still would not be something to blame for people justifying the Hornsent genocide or getting too heated about interpretations of Miquella.

“Honestly I have no idea what's going on in people's heads when they blame realistic writing (nobody is BORN evil @ naive idealism doesn't work on humans so you either give up or force people to be friends) for the takes they dislike.”

Why do people blame writing at all for the takes they dislike? Why do they blame writing for OTHER people’s views and reactions?

Because of everything I just said. They shift responsibility off of others and themselves and blame it all on the story.

Video games cause violence, kids.

[sepublic]

Seeing creators discuss the problems of production and executives, it’s made me come to a bitter realization;

Anyone could write the greatest, most satisfying, most compelling story in the world with just a word document, infinite pages, and infinite time.

Anyone could create the greatest show or film in existence with all of the budget and time they need to iron out the details and revise, or to get a certain thing done.

But that’s not what happens at all. Every creator’s going to have to deal with time constraints. They have to worry about the budget. They’ll have executives. They don’t have all the time in the world to go through every draft needed at their luxury, they have to settle for their first idea and work with it. They’ll be stressed, it’s a job for them and they need a break rather than to use that time to think about their work more. You’ll have a plan for five episodes only to have to do it in one.

It takes an actually good writer to work with limitations, to adapt to new changes, to keep themselves open. Planning is good but it really is necessary to be able to write on the fly. You’ll have to leave things out, you’ll have to go with second instead of fifth drafts. The ability to make the right sacrifices is key. But as much as you agonize over what could’ve been, if you play it right, the viewer won’t notice a thing.

(Sometimes they will. It really boils down to the artist’s skill and the extenuating circumstances. Sometimes even the best writer can’t pull off a feat in such a short amount of time.)

You’ll be surprised by what happy accidents occur all the time, often as a result of compromises. Sometimes you’ll have to do X not because it’s great for the narrative but for a more banal logistical reason, such as in the writing or the filming. The B-plot is half-baked because you had to trim it down for time, so you might just cut it out and so the A-plot has more time to breathe.

The writing has to make sense when going from Point A to B, you can’t just throw in a bunch of disparate scenes and information, they need to flow and connect together. Is this a Binge format show where it’s one huge continuous episode, or is it episodic and they’re all separate, with some overarching stuff? You’ll have to let the audience draw their own conclusions, hope they can make connections and fill in the gaps as you focus on what’s strictly necessary.

This is why Keep Your Hands Off Eizouken! is a great show. This is why I quote Dana Terrace, “Limitation breeds innovation.” It’s never going to turn out the way you want it to, even if you could easily do it by yourself. Because you won’t have the space or budget to do it. Or because you’re just so tired after a long day’s work that you don’t have the fresh mind to look at the story from another perspective and ask this simple question, especially after answering ten other simple questions. The script has already been submitted to be animated/filmed when you realize so it’s too late.

This isn’t to say that media criticism isn’t warranted. Some people couldn’t get stuff done even with all the time and budget in the world. But again I think it helps to better appreciate the process behind creation instead of taking it for granted, how creators have to wrangle a million different factors, and leave some to others in the process to interpret.

It’s easy to be the audience who has the luxury and no pressure to imagine it in their head or make a million small adjustments, to poke at little details. But imagine having to build that from scratch, instead of just standing on the shoulders of others! And isn’t established canon itself a limitation to work with, rather than the freedom of empty space? Perhaps canon does breed innovation in the fan, who otherwise would not be inspired without it.

[fairestbeard]

Did Richie jinx Sydcarmy?

(This is not an attack on Richie, just an attempt to understand his mind space regarding Sydcarmy at the time)

This scene has been playing in my mind for quite some time now and I've been wondering what part (if any) Richie played in the conflict between Carmy and Sydney. Was he just a passerby/observer in this or did he actively participate in the separation of sydcarmy?

In my last meta, I talked about how Claire's call spooked Carmy because he couldn't reconcile his intentions/desires with reality and that's why he blew off the food tour with Sydney. However, I don't think it stopped there. There's a chance that Richie may have further spooked him and contributed to breaking whatever remaining resolve Carmy may have had to still try to make things work with Syd (maybe intentionally, maybe not).

One thing we observed in season 1 is that Richie would lash out for any scrap of control when he's feeling powerless. We saw him go head to head with Syd when he felt she was influencing too much of a change in "review", leading to the ever infamous Syd/Richie fight scene.

Now we see him witness Carmy giving Syd all that controlling power in season 2 as well, even more than season 1. He's witnessed her rise to an unofficial partner of the beef, being able to raise dust when anything significant goes on without her knowledge, while he's literally unable to define his own purpose. Clocking them and making a petty signal about it as a mini lashing out is very on par for pre-transformation Richie.

One thing about The Bear is they would leave gaping plot holes, like a fill-in-the-blank-spaces kind of thing, so viewers can make up their own version of stories and interpretations. They never show what happened with Carmy running that errand for Claire but following that was Carmy being the most almost overtly romantic he had been with Syd yet, when she surprises him at The Bear later as the wall is being taken down- a scene that all fan edits never do without.

Maybe he was feeling guilty about blowing her off, but I think he was more trying to get back to the closeness they had experienced in the apartment. The way he touches her, kicks debris out of the way for her, patiently tries to understand her gripe with the recent renovations and work out their differences to a mature and logical conclusion screams "I know I veered from the path and I'm trying to get back" in the most Carmy way. But then, he completely backs off from Syd after Richie made it known he had clocked them.

Richie's main focus is the success of The he Bear. He has nowhere else to go.

Unlike the rest of them, he really has nowhere else to go. The Beef/Bear is it as at that point. Everyone else has other prospects, from Carmy even down to Neil Fak- they can pivot. He, of all people, is, in my opinion, the most desperate to have The Bear succeed and I can imagine him thinking about the possibility of a silly romance sinking or stalling its progress. He is already aware how important Syd is to that project and also how problematic Carmy is. He most probably also wanted to protect them from each other and the project from them. Even in season 1, when he was majorly wilding out, it was still in the interest of keeping The Beef afloat and running.

"It's a delicate fucking ecosystem"

I wonder if he verbally said something to Carmy after that scene. Maybe voiced his concern or gave a warning. Maybe he even just confronted Carmy about his observation in his usual jokey manner, causing Carmy to do what he does the best- "running away". Richie also clocks his next move, running to Claire and that statement Richie made to Carmy when he brings her to the restaurant is all kinds of loaded.

"Mold is the death knell"

Now, all of this things I have talked about have been more practical and doesn't equate to jinxing in the real context, so I will refer to my previous meta about the episode Pasta and the use of the magical in The Bear.

Richie is the one who ends up spoiling "the magic" in a symbolic sense when the mold (death knell) is unloaded on him, the spell master, supervisor, etc. He was the one to signify the doom to come to Sydney and Carmy's relationship. So by butting himself into their affairs in any capacity, whether with good intentions or not, maybe he put the final nail in the coffin?

All these kind of makes Carmy's unhinged outburst to Richie seem a lot less surprising (not saying that Carmy was right but that it doesn't seem as left field is you consider that Carmy partially blamed him- which Carmy is known to do, blame others). That would be why he was so triggered to unload that much unhinged vitriol at Richie, especially with Richie saying he couldn't let something good happen for once in his life.

The incredulous look Carmy gives seemed like saying no, YOU wouldn't let something good happen for once in my life, you had to ruin it like my family always does. Because even when Richie calls him Donna he was mad but didn't totally lose it until Richie made that statement. Also their conversation in season 1 about Richie only bringing bad news and Carmy afraid of good things happening seems very congruent to the leading events and to this scene.

Is Richie against sydcarmy? I would guess that with him being pleased about Carmy moving forward with Claire and with the way he was so hard on her side- encouraging Carmy to go out to her during F&F and chewing Carmy when things didn't go well- he actually was, at least initially. But I don't think it was for malicious reasons. I think he just wanted to protect The Bear and maybe Syd and Carmy from what he probably guessed would be a disaster for several reasons (one important one I'll talk about later).

So, yes, I think Richie jinxed sydcarmy.

NB: I didn't intend to post this right now but it accidentally posted, so I have to do all this rushed edit and update.

[chaifootsteps]

Still thinking about Viv's claim that she thinks both sides are in the wrong and it's bugging me enough to do a quick episode run down to see how exactly that claim stacks up. Hopefully quantifying a bit more will help see where we're actually at

Ozzies: Between episodes 6&7 Stolas gets a personality transplant and goes from calling Blitzo his 'impish little plaything' and demeaning him to being head over heels for him, calling him by his name and bowing to him. When the car drives away the camera lingers on Stolas crying, though the episode ends on Blitzo and his emotions so we'll call this one even

Queen Bee: We see Blitzo's emotions in the aftermath in the form of a self-destructive bender, but noticeably what he says to Loona is that he's upset that he'll die alone. He doesn't say anything about being upset about feeling used or mistreated by Stolas (he even says his name along with the others before he throws up)

The Circus: Retcons galore backstory about how Stolas and Blitzo were childhood friends and despite using him for sex all s1, Stolas was apparently really in love with Blitzo the whole time?? It doesn't make a lot of sense but go with it. Episode ends with a song where Stolas not only implies Blitzo was somehow lying to him this whole time (Genius.com contributor suggests Stolas believed Blitzo actually loved him, which seems the obvious interpretation of these lyrics) but also makes him out to be a weak victim. He shows no guilt whatsoever for the part he played in making Blitzo feel degraded and used.

What’s between you and I Just a comfortable lie I’m the fool who believes When you look in my eyes

Seeing Stars: Stolas being framed as badass while he's choking his butler and it not being remotely bad on his part that he continues to sexually accost Blitzo in their first meeting after Ozzie's. Any criticisms Blitzo makes of Stolas (not remembering his own spells) are dismissed by Stolas with nonsensical arguments (it's relevant Blitzo can't remember Moxxie's phone number, apparently?)

Exes and Ohs: Stolas isn't in this episode or mentioned at all

Western Energy: Text message exchange after Ozzie's show Stolas giving a non apology where he doesn't actually address the problem, literally doing a 'I'm sorry if something I said or did upset you'. Episode ends on Stolas alone in the hospital where the viewer should pity him that Blitzo didn't come to visit :(

Unhappy Campers: No Stolas!

Oops: Blitzo dismisses the notion that Stolas cares about him by using examples obviously meant to favor Stolas. He is framed as jaded and unreasonable and Fizz is the obvious voice of reason. The imp who hates royalty is called a supremacist, Blitzo is the in between who dislikes Stolas and Fizz - the one who capes for royalty - is presented as in the right

Full Moon: Blitzo again criticizes Stolas, without getting to mention anything specific from s1. He is framed as going too far and tries to apologize. Stolas acts like the deal was a mutual thing even when admitting it was wrong

By my count that's basically no examples in Blitzo's favor. And I imagine if we counted all the Twitter likes from Viv on posts favoring Blitzo we'd turn up a big goose egg there, too

Careful, now! You laid out all the facts and stated them plainly, and we know that that makes a certain subset of fans angry and scared.

Viv can claim that "they're supposed to both be in the wrong" all she likes, but it doesn't mean a thing if every other word of writing in season 2 suggests the opposite. I guess the real test will come in Apology Tour, when we get to see who's actually doing the apologizing.

[angelsdean]

I know it's a bitter pill to swallow in this fandom for many reasons but, the phrase "open to interpretation" IS inherently a positive phrase that good creators use to affirm to their audiences that stories and art belong to the fans, and that every fan is able to find their own meaning through their own interpretive lens. It's not up to creators or actors to tell people what something--especially ambiguous or subtextual moments--mean. Everyone will come to a different understanding, some views might be more supported by canon than others, but it's still within every viewer's right to see things how they see them.

All "open to interpretation" means is: you get to interpret it! And you! And you! This is a key tenant of any creative work. It can be interpreted. And that is what literary analysis is all about. You build a case for your interpretation. You go into the text and find supporting evidence for your view, your thesis. And some interpretations are argued better than others. But everyone's still allowed to have their interpretation. (Also, literary analysis is fun).

I say all this because I've seen posts about Jensen going from "open to interpretation" to "clear text" as if he's now against the fact that things can and will be interpreted by fans. In terms of Cas's declaration of love? Yes, that is "clear text." It's romantic in nature, that's not up for debate, and Dean processed and understood it as romantic on the dungeon floor. But for stuff that is still ambiguous, still subtextual in some ways, like Dean's own feelings? Those are still open to interpretation by all sides, whether we like it or not. Until we get to see more of Dean and Cas's story in the basically guaranteed reboot, Jensen is not going to speculate about Dean's feelings or Destiel's reunion. He's never going to word-of-god confirm anything about this on stage at a convention. We have to wait to see it play out on screen.

As an actor, it's also not his place to confirm or deny these things. He leaves it up to the fans to read into his performance whatever they want. And yes, that sentiment IS affirming to a Destiel interpretation. We can read reciprocation into his performance. We can read romantic love into his words about Dean wishing he'd said "I love you back." We can look back on the years of queercoding and subtext and Jacting Joices and read Dean as being in love with Cas for years. And, well, the other side can read what they want into it, and we don't need to care what they think, tbqh.

This, IMO, is also part of the reason Jensen tends to give "vague" answers or use language that can be perceived in different ways by either side. As an actor, at a fan convention where fans of all sides of the fandom have paid to be there to have a good time, it's not his job to personally validate specific headcanons and interpretations. Jensen may have his own personal beliefs about Dean's feelings, but he's not going to divulge them in full if they close off one side's interpretation. So he will weave his way through answers. He will use terms like "brother in arms" which one side will hear as simply "brother" and think "platonic" and Destiel shippers will hear as the full meaning, a strong bond between men, and see the queer history associated with these warrior bonds.

He does this, IMO, to keep all lanes open for every fan, because first and foremost he's an actor at a convention being paid to entertain. He's also not a writer, he's not someone who can definitively say what was intended. Personally, I feel that his metaphor about being in an art gallery that he gave back in 2020 is incredibly apt. People come to the gallery and look at the art and find their own meaning. And the artist isn't standing there beside them confirming or denying their interpretations. That's not the artist's job. Once it's out there, it's for others to find meaning in what the artist made.

And again, it's not his place to speculate or write fanfiction for anyone on stage and personally confirm or deny headcanons. He's pretty adamant about the reboot, so I think for some things we'll just have to wait and see.

[youzicha]

Simulacra, Simulation, and Girls' Generation

That take that "anime girls don’t correspond to anything" reminded me of one of my own pet theories, which is that the same is true about Kpop groups.

Groups like Girls' Generation are like the opposite of American singer-songwriters. The singer-songwriter's core value is authenticity. Their songs are taken to be autobiographical, and to be valuable because they are a true description of the emotions that the songwriter felt. The singer-writer must be a single person so we can be sure that nobody has tampered with the depiction before it reaches us. This is Baudrillard's "first order" image, we in the audience should believe that the song is "the reflection of a profound reality".

With the kpop groups, what we enjoy is that the song does not represent any underlying reality. Each music video is the impersonal product of songwriters, producers, choreographers, stylists, video directors, etc. Rather than a spontaneous expression, you can see the moves being developed in the behind-the-scenes dance practice videos. The online discourse emphasizes the role of the entertainment agency (e.g. SM Entertainment): the group members themselves do not have "agency" so we can be confident that their own emotions didn't make it into the love songs.

Let’s look at the music video for Oh! (2010) to see how this plays out. It's like a game of dress-up, showing off two different cheerleader uniforms. Argumate once wrote that Girls' Generation perform "a detailed sequence of dance moves that are very 'sexy', i.e. strongly coded as suggesting sexiness without necessarily being sexy-without-quotes", and I think we can say something similar about cheerleader outfits. They are not there to convey a message or story (and as if to stress the arbitrariness, the last few seconds of the video show the girls dressed in a completely different "strong woman" style, to tease the upcoming next look). Rather, the "sexy cheerleader" is itself a stylized, free-floating signifier to be quoted. "The whole system becomes weightless … an uninterrupted circuit without reference or circumference." (Although I believe it is still possible to overcome the ironic stance.)

So far everything is straightforward, but now consider the lyrics:

Oppa please see me, please look at me It's the first time I talk like this (ha!) I did my hair and I did my makeup too But why is it only you who doesn't know? […] Don't think of me just like a little sister You might regret that after a year

I claim that this also works in the opposite direction to the normal mode of storytelling. An auteur-director starts with an idea for a movie or play, and then casts actors to best represent his vision. Or, if that is not what it in fact took place, that is still the convention the viewer is supposed to apply to interpret the work. But with an idol music video, the starting point is the singer, who already has a fanbase. "Please see me, please look at me"—well, we already were. (This is not the only Girls' Generation song about looking at the idol, by the way, compare e.g. The Boys, which begins "I can tell you're looking at me / I know what you see".)

Given the opposite starting point, the representational function of the lyrics changes correspondingly. Rather than focusing on the new fictional person who emerges ex nihilo, the fan's attention is focused on the singer, and the "little sister" character is yet another stock signifier to bring out and put on, much like the uniform. The function of the story is erasure: there was in fact a hairdresser and a makeup artist who styled Yuri, but instead we're invited to project a different fantasy over her. The effect is to further stress the unreality of these symbols.

With this in mind, I think one Girls' Generation song has a really interesting concept for the lyrics. In Paparazzi (2012) the idol looks out across the crowds, spots a photographer who is trying to be discreet, and speaks directly to him: "shall I give you a better photo? let's be friendly, after all aren't we allies?"

It re-establishes the inauthenticity and unreality of the idol! As time goes by, pesky reality intrudes. People will follow the individual group members devotedly, and there are paparazzi images of them. Members will capitalize on their fame through individual brand endorsement deals. There is the perennial problem of girl group girls getting boyfriends, jarringly peeking out as an actual human being from behind the illusion. Or in the extreme case they can even use their new independent existence to leave the group.

In Paparazzi, those candid photos are re-imagined as performance. And furthermore, just like in Oh! we are invited to imagine a fictional character speaking directly to us. But in this case the character is superimposed not just over the image from the music video, but also over all the already existing photos. The actual person of the idol is crowded out by the fantasy…

[deadwrites]

I wrote up a big ramble about the comments on fics thing then got halfway through and realized I am just very tired, to be honest. It’s sad to see how people have divided themselves into creators and viewers, and even sadder that the environment for fandom and original works actively encourages this stratification. I will say—viewers have gotten out of the habit of talking to writers and artists, but I know of quite a few writers and artists who actively encourage this divide by being aloof, dismissive and even outright rude (after remaking tumblr for the first time in 8? years, right off the bat I saw an artist literally mocking an anon’s headcanon, saying word for word “do better”) or angry at people for taking their work and… interpreting it.

like for me, I know I’m not gonna get a lot of action on my fics cus a) it’s an original work with a ton of cliche elements like space elves and space pirates and just sounds fantastically cheesy and bad and b) it’s poorly disguised kink content and so people are Scared To Admit They Like Noncon And Torture. But I also welcome any interpretations that people have. Like bad ending/ grey x alaric endgame? Yeah man I’ll tell you how that would play out. Layne and grey? Sure man I’m sorry I won’t have any content for you of that but please think about scenarios for that if you want! Wanna guess the plot? I’d love to hear. Like idk I see artists and writers also getting like… “no this is MY story and MY ocs you’re not allowed to BREATHE near them” and it just baffles me at how hostile people are. Like if you’re gonna share this shit on the internet with strangers then be prepared for people to bring their own spin to it. You’re gonna get a “I just jacked off so much to this” comment every now and again, or a completely OOC headcanon or fan art that doesn’t look like your OC and honestly I live for that because it lets me know that people like my work enough to live with it for a minute, and that’s mind blowing to me. I’m not at risk of bailing on my stories because I am borderline obsessive with the need to purge them from my brain, but I also write quicker when people have stuff to say, and I get new ideas or think about my own work differently depending on what people do say.

so I guess tldr (I’m so tired so idek if that made sense), I think part of the issue is the unapproachable nature of creators. Ten years ago you knew a creator, even a big one, would talk to you if you talked to THEM, and you could count on—if nothing else—to not be treated like shit for sharing your thoughts or art or whatever. But now it’s a gamble. That’s my two cents.

[astercontrol]

so. Just finished watching "Strange Behavior" all the way.

Took me some time because horror movies aren't my thing, I'm here for the Dan Shor cuteness… had to take the gory parts in small, spaced-out doses.

Also, I make no secret of having the hots for Dan Shor as Ram… but I'm mainly into aliens and machines, so Dan Shor as this particular human character doesn't set off quite the same responses for me. (Though I did of course still find him sweet and pretty, and did occasionally feel the urge to take clips and adjust hues into an Encom-glowy color scheme so I could pretend he was Ram.)

Anyway, I'm gonna ramble on about scenes from this movie in no particular order, from the viewpoint of being a Fan of Dan, Especially as Ram, and not a horror movie person at all.

I'm still gonna warn you, there's references to horror-movie-type things in here… but I won't go into TOO much detail or post gifs of the very worst bits.

Still, there's gonna be SOME gifs and discussions of some creepy-ass scenes, so viewer discretion is advised. For both some disturbing horror movie plot elements, and spoilers about said plot elements.

----

The character of Pete is a young man finishing up high school… for his age I'd guess 18 since he says at one point that he'll be going to college next year. In true Hollywood tradition he was played by Dan Shor at age (I think) 25.

(side note. apparently Dan Shor's first major role was in "Equus," which… HOLY FUCK. Only read the wikipedia for that if you are prepared for some WEIRD SHIT. Storyline is… strangely in tune with my view of Encom Programs as having a sexual connection with their gods? but takes it off on the most utterly fucked-up tangent. I'm sorta almost glad this was a stage play and there isn't a film readily available for me to watch.)

(also, random little side note that his character in Equus was named Alan. Which probably means nothing. And is NOT AT ALL connected to Alan Bradley's actor and how he feels about horses.)

---

Anyway.

Pete's mother died long ago and he's like, really sweetly close with his dad-- to a degree that I suppose some pervs might interpret as weird (like, the one time he gets, uh, just naked enough that I wouldn't put the gif on tumblr? is when he's hangin out alone with his dad.) Initial sorta-conflict of the story is that he wants to stay in town where dad is, and dad wants him to go to college somewhere else and see more of the world (which is influenced, we find out later, by stuff his dad knows about fucked-up shit going on at the local college Pete wants to attend).

(Dad's name is John Brady. Brady, not Bradley. Pattern recognizer has to strain again to see connections there. Also there is an Alan in this movie, but he's a bartender who appears for a couple seconds in the last scene. Moving on.)

[eddiediazismyhusband]

These people will never experience the pain hearing from the causal viewers and THE SR that we who view those characters as queer, are delusional. We were told, it’s in “our heads” and what you see “is your interpretation” NOT what’s on the script. OH CANT FORGET MY FAVORITE, “go write your own SHOW”. Imagine for 6 years viewing buck as queer coded and told you were dumb and “it’s never gonna happen”. For 6 YEARS!!!! It literally took them ONE EPISODE AND MOVING TO A NEW NETWORK for bibuck to happen. And these people think this couple who ONLY HAD 3 dates (1 of them a failed one), and 2 kisses is endgame? 💀💀💀imagine your ship not having any depth to where they stopped caring about them after making buck bi💀💀💀. Where are their scenes? Oh it’s “enjoy it while it lasts”. It’s them having barely 20 minutes of screen while the “non ship” has x2 has much in 10 episodes. Did they forget their fav said this💀💀💀💀

💯no notes agree with everything you said 👏👏👏

and also even that lfj quote pissed me off when it came out bc i was like “how are you gonna stand here and tell me to be grateful for a relationship that came out of left field with no chemistry?” like even if it does lead to buddie i will still hate that whole arc because it could have been handled SO much better and without bringing back a racist character, played by a problematic person, ON TOP of causing the biggest shipping controversy to ever hit this fandom… that man has given me the ick since day one of s7 and when the cameos started and he started encouraging his fans and egging on the bullshit i was done w him.

it pisses me off bc they act like buck has to go through some sort of “queer bootcamp” before he can date eddie and im like…. no he doesn’t?? he doesn’t need some sort of “gay yoda” or whatever they called t-rex in the beginning bc there is no rulebook to being queer… so the whole notion of “working out the kinks” (which is an extra level of icky coming from someone like lfj, and looking back after the daddy joke in 7x10) never sat right with me… and the whole “what if buck got with eddie and didn’t like it?” if he meant that literally as “what if buck didn’t like it” my brother in christ theses are fictional characters, they’re not sims, the writers have full control over literally everything that happens… why would they write them if buck “wasn’t gonna like it” (which is bullshit bc we all know he 1000% fold immediately if eddie kissed him)… if he meant “what if the fandom didn’t like it” (which is an odd way to word that question if this is what he meant) WDYM IF THE FANDOM DOESNT LIKE IT EVEN HALF THE BT SHIPPERS HAVE BEEN SHIPPING BUDDIE FOR ALMOST SIX YEARS????

the whole situation drives me up s wall bc not only have we simultaneously gotten so close yet so far to getting buddie, we also now have to deal with these wack-ass fans policing people, calling queer people homophobic, sending death threats and violent hate speech to people who don’t like their ship, actively talking bad about oliver bc he clearly isn’t a fan of lfj or the way this storyline was handled, on top of having to deal with the show’s retconning of typhoid’s character and trying to brush his shit under a rug using queerness as an “excuse” and thus enabling these people to use the “homophobia” rhetoric when someone doesn’t want a boring ass rewash basic ship.

[snellyfish]

Why is Angie your favourite character?

This is really funny I just got off call with Glownary and was talking about how much I don't miss Danganronpa discourse. Anyway I hope someone finds a way to get mad at me in this post!

((Admittedly I'd probably actually place Korekiyo above her because he ACTUALLY has a relevant and specified canon story,,, but, y'kno))

Plain and simple, she just has a handful of design and character tropes I super adore in characters! As a base, I'm usually not super into,,, well-adjusted, well-liked , reasonable, and rational characters. LMAO. They're fine but I live for exaggeration. I LOVE when they're little freaks and not watered down at all for the viewers sake/comfort, I love when they (both the writers and the written) just keep twisting the knife for no good reason other than the bit despite how unconventional it may be.

One could argue that her not being watered down and being as shitty to the other players as she is is a trauma response, or just a mentally ill person being mentally ill. It can be neat to think of her that way sometimes! It's of my opinion that almost all Danganronpa characters are super open-ended lore/personality-wise and we as fans are just making up canon as we go because it's FUCKING FUN, and, as such, all the ways that Angie can be interpreted is very interesting to me-- EVEN if that's seen as "the irredeemable annoying religion-force-feeding zealot antagonist." Which is, of course, an objectively awful way to view anyone REGARDLESS of media illiteracy, but, you know! I like weird freaks so this "flaw" they see is simply more food for me. Yippee!!

Whether I think she's canonically A) genuinely malicious and sadistic, B) traumatized from an abusive religious sect, C) honestly caring about the other players, and/or D) none/all of the above? I'll never tell! Oops all bangers!

Tropes I enjoy, whether or not I found myself enjoying them BECAUSE of Angie herself;;

Religion, especially if it's horrifying and...bad! (Most of my own characters deal heavily with religion and religious trauma, I think it's cool to play with, whether or not it's a fantasy religion like I think Angie's is)

CULTS! Cult behavior! Let's live in a commune!! (GUYS I LOVE MIDSOMMAR)

Dark skin / light hair contrast color combo goes hard!!!

+ The pansexual flag palette is literally my favorite color combo ever!!!!

Manipulative little shits!!!!!

Small scary women!!!!!!

Islander stuff, it's very nostalgic to me and I just have a deep love and appreciation for the beach and ocean!!!!!!!

Piercings!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cutesy sunshine character who could and would stab you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BLOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IDK HOW THIS WASN'T MY FIRST POINT!!!!!!!!!!

AND SHE'S JUST FUCKING SILLY!!!!!!!! SHE'S GENUINELY SO FUNNY AND CUTE ESPECIALLY IN HER INTERACTIONS WITH SHUICHI!!!!!!!!!! I LOVE HER SO BAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

She was an IMMEDIATE favorite when I played V3 and when I found out that, like, everyone fucking HATED her and she's probably the least liked character in the entire class by the fans, my brain immediately went the contrarian route to find reasons to like her even MORE. I tend to do this a lot, but when it's a character I already enjoy, it's even worse, dude.

ummmmm obligatory Shinnaga mention sorry but I frequently tend to appreciate a character a lot more based on potential dynamics alone. Ships, romantic or not, have legitimately gotten me to enjoy characters I hated before, based on interesting interactions unique to them alone. So while Kiyo and Angie's (they're making out btw) ingame dynamic and dialogues aren't REALLY what my sick and twisted mind views them as, it's worth noting that my honest belief and interpretation of the two of them could even give me a sliver of that dynamic being possible .......... means she's fuckin slay ............ it means love wins..... It means Vote For Yonaga 2024

[tubbytarchia]

Also I need to say SOMETHING because I've been tormented by this for the past few days after having been made aware but yandere Pearl makes me so upset, imo it's such a disservice to her character!! That or other interpretations that just make her out to be evil. I understand the appeal of the trope and for AUs and stuff, ofc go wild!! But that is very much not what happened in DL canon and anyone who thinks that she's only interesting with the yandere trope attached is a fake fan!! Pearl was labelled crazy and of course she leaned into it, because what else does she do? Nobody wants her, everyone believes she's lost it, so she might as well!! At the very least it serves as some intimidation that Pearl CAN use to her advantage but did she ever want to? She's not crazy for Scott, not by any stretch of the imagination. She wanted some kind of approval, or acceptance. She didn't just want Scott to herself or whatever argument people try to make and she most certainly wasn't evil or cruel. Many times when people were getting up to mischief, Pearl didn't take large part if at all even if she was there. She often played along and, yeah, she played along, like most Lifers would, no? I can see how her behaviour could be observed as obsessive when she keeps trying to settle near Scott but, I don't even know how to articulate my thoughts other than to reinforce that that wasn't her obsessing over Scott. I suppose you could view Pearl as evil depending entirely on what you classify as evil in a death game where most everyone has to kill anyway, and where a lot of people commit arson and stuff (Joel killed some Jellies, loved to bully Jimmy, retaliated having the Relationship burnt down by burning every other establishment he could, is he also evil? What makes Pearl evil? Does she just get called that more because Joel is expected to be a menace by default?), but there is so much more nuance there than some form of "she flipped on a dime in session 1 and immediately became a crazy ex after a breakup". But you know what, that's what Scott wanted people to believe and if anyone in the fandom does then I have news for you

Also I'm not trying to say that playing a villain character is bad (Scott is such a villain though not at all a plainly visible one, and he's very compelling as a character) nor am I trying to make Pearl out to be some totally innocent sweetpea. Or maybe I am. #Pearl did literally nothing wrong to warrant this (but like, art of her being girlboss and stuff goes hard still, she OWNED the scene still when she embraced the label. She was mad cool, but it's not "being evil" that makes a character mad cool)

(PS don't take this too seriously, although I do heavily disagree with this interpretation personally, I'm not police and also I love all the Lifers including Scott dearly. Reminder that this is just about the characters they play and it's reasonable for viewers to believe his story foremost if they've only watched his POV and such, I think)

[love-takes-work]

Hey I’ve been thinking a lot about fusions in Steven universe as a huge fan myself but I have one big problem with Stevonnie, and that’s how mature and icky alot of the plots with them are, for example all of kevin, Lars throw away sorta crush etc. I was just curious because I read your steg post and I found it really interesting and agreed with it!

I was just curious as someone who looks way more into the show what’s your take on the topic of stevonnie and how or why they differ so much from steg!

I don't think Lars was shown as a "throw away crush"--both he and Sadie had a dazzled reaction when Stevonnie walked into the donut shop, and it was Sadie who blushed and insisted the donuts were on the house. Not only Sadie and Lars but Sour Cream and everyone who saw them at the rave were enchanted with Stevonnie.

But if you were a little grossed out by the "maturity" of that episode, you'll be very happy to know that was intentional! When speaking about the episode's intent, Rebecca Sugar said it's about how it feels to suddenly find the world responding to you differently when you're going through puberty and you suddenly have an attractive/adult body and people are presenting you with opportunities you're not familiar with and not ready for. And treating you like you should like it when you hardly even know what it is. Expecting you to play a game when you don't know the rules. A quote of Rebecca's from an interview:

"Stevonnie challenges gender norms as an individual, but also serves as a metaphor for all the terrifying firsts in a first relationship, and what it feels like to hit puberty and suddenly find yourself with the body of an adult, how quickly that happens, how it feels to have a new power over people, or to suddenly find yourself objectified, all for seemingly no reason since you’re still just you… "

You see Stevonnie just kinda enjoying that Lars and Sadie don't recognize them and treat them like something incredible and special when Connie's never been cool and Steven's always been sort of tolerated or humored by the young adults in town. But then when Kevin enters the picture it's scary. "This dance isn't fun!" They had pictures in their head of how cool a dance party would be but the actual reality of it was super uncomfortable and unforeseen.

I remember reading a LOT of disturbed reactions to this episode on a message board from when it first came out. Some of the (straight) men said they just weren't used to being the POV character while being unwillingly objectified by a strange man in a club, and had never viscerally understood until this episode why that seemed SO creepy. And a lot of the women, on the other hand, recognized it from personal experience instantly. There are several scenes that have the viewer actually seeming to see what Stevonnie sees, including when Kevin is looking them up and down.

The episode is about some of the joy and terror of that experience, from the point of view of the experience.

Some folks have wondered why Stevonnie doesn't appear to have any duplicated limbs or eyes, especially after we found out from Steg that looking totally humanoid is not a side effect of being three quarters human. I think part of the reason they made that design choice is that Stevonnie was meant to be seen during their debut venture as a stunning, magnetic person, and if they'd looked alien at all we might have interpreted the stares and gasps as reactions to a weird sight instead of a gorgeous stranger. (And it's super nice to see them interpreted by guys and gals as attractive, though Kevin clearly sees them as a girl at first and addresses them as such.)

That said, maybe they have a duplication that doesn't show. I like to headcanon that they might have two hearts. <3