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trashlie · 2 years ago

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ILY FP 219 (or, The One That Went to the Top of My Favorites List)

Hehehe is that an enticing enough, non-spoiler preview for you? lol I want so badly to tell everyone WHY they should be sure to FP this episode, but I don’t want to ruin it for anyone. Not that I think knowing what’s in there will ruin it, but I think the impact of going into it without knowing is just SO MUCH MORE POWERFUL. It’s BEAUTIFUL okay? That’s why you should read it - it’s beautiful!

Idk where to begin with this one!!!! Over 24 hours later, sorting out my emotions is still difficult because I just keep wanting to climb the walls and start shrieking lmao AAAAHHHHHHHH!

Those of us who are patrons of quimchee’s got a little teaser for this episode - the first part was SUPPOSED to post with 218, and quimchee said that 213-219 are all supposed to be parts of one much, MUCH bigger episode, so you know, if you want to read them all together, there you go! But anyway, even getting a little teaser of it last week, this episode was still full of so much new, and even what we got to see still hit just as strong. UGH. LISTEN.

When the music hit me and I realized what it was? As we kept scrolling and Shinae furtively snuck back in? I CRIED okay lmao I CRIED. How long has it been since Nol last celebrated his birthday? When was the last time someone made him feel special on this day? Because he sure hasn’t allowed himself to. He hasn’t spent a birthday with friends - I mean, hell, this is the first time he’s even HAD friends who mean anything - and after everything they’ve gone through, everything he put them through, to see them show up just meant SO MUCH to me. I had no doubts that Dieter and Soushi would come through for Nol, but I didn’t think we’d get to see it so soon, either. I was so concerned that there’d been no time for them to talk at the party, that Soushi’s first indication that Nol was even there at all was seeing him fall into a glass table! Finding him bleeding out in the snow.

How harrowing it must have been for them - at least Shinae has gotten to talk to him a little, has a little more insight into who he is, why he did what he did. I’m sure, in time, Dieter and Soushi will come up to speed, whether through Shinae or Nol himself, but even now, even with them NOT knowing or understanding, I think it makes it even more special that they showed up. Nol has been there when they needed him, whether they wanted it or not. He always had their backs, had a way of making them feel like they were special, like they matter. And now they all got to do the same for him, to return that favor. As readers, we know that Nol began those relationships with no real intentions, never intending those friendships to become real, but they did, both ways. There was something about Soushi’s commentary that really did me in - about how he doesn’t have bullies coming around anymore and even if he did, he’s got a buddy whose got his back ;~; How he went from wanting to take help from no one to coming around to the weirdly insistent boy.

I love, LOVE, LOVE how all of their gifts related to the beginnings of their relationships. Again, it’s something about how it began on false pretenses, but how it became real and came to mean something to all of them that just really gets to me! I don’t know how to articulate it, the feeling of these people who desperately needed someone, being able to be that to Nol, that even though he’s tried to push them away, to run away, even though they have no explanation for his behavior, they still are there for him when he desperately needs it. I kept waffling for a long time on whether I thought Nol was intending to ghost everyone after prison, going back and forth even as he and Shinae talked in Minhyuk’s room. “Is he telling her this because he doesn’t plan to stick around?” But especially after all of these hospital scenes, I feel pretty confident that’s not his plan. Just like Soushi and Shinae never really intended to accept Nol’s friendship and thought they were fine on their own, I think Nol may be having that moment for himself.

Or, rather, I think he’s at a crossroads and is at war with himself. On the one hand, he doesn’t believe he deserves any of this. The way he talks about his birthday is so SAD; Shinae is right, people don’t talk like that! Was it a difficult pregnancy that Nessa had with Nol? Did his birth cause her harm? Is it just the circumstances he feels guilty for? Maybe he believes she’d be okay if she’d never conceived him? Maybe it’s because of his relation to the Hiraharas? He talks about people stepping on the burger - that definitely feels like it’s about the Hirahraras, taking his existence and making him feel insignificant and wrong, like he shouldn’t exist. But it’s the way he talks about the mistreatment of the cow sent to the slaughterhouse. It sounds like that’s about his mom - which could be the most he’s ever said about her. If his birthday is the burger, then the cow that became the burger would be her, right? I still have so many questions, ngl. Nol clearly has a complicated relationship with the memory of his mother - we know his childhood, before they left home, were his happiest memories, but at the same time, he can’t speak of the happy memories, or really, her at all. I don’t think the guilt is simply that he exists, and there’s more to it, whether it’s misconstrued on his behalf or just more puzzle pieces we’re missing.

At any rate, Nol carries a heavy weight of guilt and has denied himself any joy or happiness, has never allowed himself to ENJOY things, lest they go awry. Probably like with his mom, and like with Shinae, a connection with him seems to end in danger. Of course, that’s not true - people end up in danger because of their own choices, and the choices of those around them - but again, we are talking about the way Nol views himself and the world. I think this is a big thing, too, because I’ve been thinking a lot about identity and perception lately, but I’ll try to get to that in a moment.

For so long, Nol has been content with his self-inflicted punishment, but then he accidentally made real friends along the way. His quest to help people went off track. And for a while, he tried to fix that. He pulled away, he stopped responding, he tried to completely and cleanly cut them off, he drew the line and let them know. But here they still stand after it all, and he can’t help but appreciate that. The way my stupid heart flipped when he hugged Dieter and Soushi and told him he loved him. That feels like the most genuine expression we’ve seen on him in a long time - and for him to be so forthright with them, to even use that word at all! This is what makes me feel certain he doesn’t intend to ghost them. Why would he tell them that if he planned to leave? Why would he accept and embrace their friendship if he didn’t want it? And that’s the thing, isn’t it? His internal war is his wants vs what he thinks he deserves. It’s the fear that he brings harm to people, but that DESPERATE LONGING for that closeness.

Throughout ILY we’ve seen so many times Nol wanted to reach out and denied himself the opportunity, for whatever reason. Countless times he’s reached out to Shinae only to close his hand into a fist and restrain himself. All that loneliness is haunting. I think it’s around the time they went to the arcade that Nol knew these relationships were real, and it was the arrival of Yui that reminded him he can’t do this, he can’t let his guard down, he can’t indulge his desires like this. To have that taste for friendship, for what it feels like to just let go, to be around people who don’t spend all their time trying to tear you apart, to be around people who CHOOSE your company, who CHOOSE to be with you? And then to retreat? He tasted something so sweet but had to give it up.

And now, after everything he’s done, they still show up for him, they still sat by and watched over him, they still came to CELEBRATE him? How can he continue to deny himself this? How can he close his fist and walk away from it?

But, and my god I realize this is a very verbose point lmao, the point I’m getting at is, in the same way that Soushi and Shinae refused his friendship, in the same way that they thought they were better off on their own, I think Nol is at that same crossroad - is he better off alone? How bad is it, if he indulges just a little?

I hope he thinks long and hard about what Shinae said very early in the evening, too. Whether or not he believes he puts people in danger, it’s not his call to make. Friendship is a two-way road and they, also, deserve to make their choice, to choose him despite the danger. It wasn’t Nol that put Shinae in danger. Maybe in a convoluted way you could say so - she’d never have called on Kousuke for that favor he owed her for getting Nol to the hospital the night of the masquerade - but regardless, Yui acts on her own. I realize this is not easy for Nol to see, because of what a deep-seated belief this is, but I hope it’s something he’ll consider more and more.

There’s so much I could write about the birthday party ALONE. How wonderful it was to see them all together again after all this time, the sweet callbacks to their beginnings demonstrating how far they’ve come, how much they mean to each other. Nol is SO loved, and I hope he learns to wear that love as a much needed suit of armor. What does it matter that his family is trash, when this, his found family, makes up for it in so many ways? What does it matter that some people chose to make him feel insignificant, when he has people who choose to celebrate him, and the fact that he’s in their lives? ;~; That little happy smile and blush he wears when Shinae pointedly tells him they want to spend this night making him feel special ;~; It fucks me up lmao like lakjfkjafkjaf I’M GETTING WEEPY WRITING THIS ALL OVER AGAIN LMAO

NOL DESERVES TO BE CELEBRATED. HE DESERVES TO FEEL SPECIAL. He came into their lives and individually made them all better. There’s an argument to be made that it was Kousuke’s financing that made Soushi’s life better, but we know that HE chooses Nol. That his companionship with Nol makes his life better. If not for Nol, where would they even be? He deserves to be celebrated because he’s brought so much good into other lives! And he deserves a return of that, too. All the good he tried to put into the world to counter the guilt he wears, all the good he denied himself and thus brought to others. GOD. I HAVE SO MANY FEELINGS ;~; I LOVE THEM, I LOVE THIS GANG I hope in the future we get to see more of them, now that we know how close their bond is, how much they mean to each other ;~;

DIETER’S ORIGAMI DUCKIES AND THE LITTLE BIRTHDAY MESSAGES! THE CALLBACK TO NOL AND THEIR MORNING RUNS AND THE STILLNESS OF THE WATER AND THE DUCKIES ;~; Apologizing that these aren’t the best presents, that there’s no cake, but aren’t they? Isn’t this the best? There’s something about people spending their time and energy to create something for you that REALLY gets to me. Every time a friend hand-makes something for me, I just cry and cry lmao. Maybe origami duckies and happy birtday on a cake isn’t a lot of effort - but the point is that they TRIED. That at the last minute, they came up with something to try to return the kind of friend he’s been to them. They ARE the perfect gifts. What else could he possibly need more than to know that he is important to them and means so much?

AND THAT WAY HE LOOKS OVER AT SHINAE, THE WAY SHE QUICKLY LOOKS AWAY, THE FLUSTERING, THE LITTLE BUTTERFLIES WE FEEL ON HER BEHALF!!!!! AUGH.

I find it so cute and funny that Shinae was too shy to give Nol her gift at the same time, feeling that it paled in comparison to Dieter’s duckies, but personally, I think it’s right on par. Just like their messages, Shinae’s gift harkens back to the earliest days of her friendship with Nol, the orange soda she spilled on him, the fear he’s allergic to oranges lol, what she drew on his face the day following at that deli lol “You don’t suck that much” All the way back in episode 4, she told him “You’re a human first. And humans suck.” WHAT A CALLBACK!!!!!!!! Idk like, to me here gift was so on par, but also, it’s something that conveys a sense of feelings and being who she is, I don’t blame her for feeling a little shy about it.

ESPECIALLY COS MY GOD THERE’S SO MUCH SHYNESS IN THIS EPISODE MY GOD!!!!!!!!

It’s been long established that I am here for the soft shit, the tender shit, for little stolen moments laced with intimacy, stolen little moments of calm in an otherwise turbulent storm. IT’S MY EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!! Dieter and Soushi on the spare bed in the room, while Shinae lays her head again on Nol’s bed, the both of them refusing to sleep. Shinae probably fears that he’ll disappear if she sleeps, that he’ll slip through her fingers; Nol probably worries that when he wakes this will be over, the calm, the good feelings. There’s something so TENDER about them trying to delay the inevitable, to stretch the last remining time. And, again, with Dieter and Soushi sleeping (god I hope Dieter is sleeping), everything that follows just feels again like a little stolen moment, just like every other moment they share together.

The shift in Nol and Shinae’s relationship dynamic is practically palpable. How many times has she gotten flustered over his gaze this night? How many times has she been unable to hold that gaze?! I’m a sucker for this! There’s likely a number of reasons that have brought this reaction out of it. It reminds me a lot of episodes 117 and 118 with the nugget crushing hand holding and the shared music moment - how Shinae marveled over her hands afterward, how she had to go lmao hold Minhyuk’s hand to feel it out. That, and the little flashback snippet of Nol doing her make up at the formal seem to be the times that Shinae has been most affected by Nol, and I think in a lot of ways they resonate with the version of him she knows now. But that’s the other thing. She knows more than Dieter and Soushi do and through that, she’s aware of that significance and I think it’s absolutely affected her. They’ve been so incredibly vulnerable with each other all evening - Shinae being so uncharacteristic and saying so many heartfelt, sentimental things in effort to reach Nol, sharing her story about middle school, the reveal about Alyssa, the little things he’s let slip about his family dynamic. Shinae is already seeing him in a new light, and so much of it is just raw and she’s yet to have a moment to really sit down and take in everything. But also, the GLANCES, his INTENSE expressions.

I was talking to someone on reddit about this but the thing is - this isn’t Shinae’s first meeting with Nol like this. In so many of their shared moments, this is the person he’s been, letting down his goofy mask, talking seriously with her. The break in at her apartment, the phone call after his family dinner, the scene at the wac, the breakdown on the hospital terrace, the time he gave her his extra taco. Though not as raw as this Nol, the edges softened and blurred more than he is now, she’s come face to face with this iteration of him. It’s the intensity that is so new. And lmao that intensity is what makes him so alike Rand, who made Shinae quiver LMAOOOOOO it’s so funny that this is finally catching up to her, that their appearance is finally frazzling her. But I think it’s a culmination of all of this. There’s an awareness at the tip of her tongue that she’s yet to voice, yet to confront, but she’s certainly acting on it. The stolen glances, the flustered glances away, the way she is so WHOLLY affected.

It’s only just earlier this week, as far as the timeline goes, that Shiane realized HOW important Nol is to her, HOW scared she is of losing him, how much he means to her. Dieter used the l-word! It’s not a casual friendship. And his significance to her seems to dance along the border between platonic and romance - you can be significant to someone without it being romantic, you can be a person someone doesn’t want to lose without it being romantic. But SHE has to find that significance, she has to figure that out. All this shyness and flustering - is it the newness of this side of Nol, of all this vulnerability shared between them, or is it something more in the ways they bring comfort to each other, the ways they seem to stabilize each others’ world. I don’t think we’ve seen it demonstrated as strongly as we have with Nol, how Shinae’s presence and can center Nol and root him in the present, but I think we’ve seen a few instances of Nol being the same for her.

This is one of those things about love and romance and friendship that fascinates me. At what point IS it romance? At what point does that friendship turn into “I want more of this I need more of this”? You can receive comfort from so many people, so at what point does it become something romantic?

And I think that’s what Shinae and Nol are toeing. Nol, certainly, is becoming more aware of that affect she has on him, the way she roots him to the present, the way she brings him much needed peace. Does Shinae realize yet the way she seeks him out? Does she realize how much peace she’s also gotten from him?

And it seems so mutual, the way Nol gives in and indulges in the peace, the way he initiates these little moments of physicality. And it could absolutely be nothing, it could absolutely be just a casual touch amongst friends, except it’s them, and she’s flustered and looking away, and the butterflies seem to dance off the page. It’s the way he looks from her gift, loaded with what began their friendship what brought them into each other’s lives, and looks over at her trying to drown out his reaction, too embarrassed (TOO SHY!!!!!!) to see, that eyeless frame (QUIMCHEE DOES THIS SO MUCH! SO OFTEN! WHEN SHIELDING NOL’S FEELINGS!!!!!!) when he reaches over with his fingers in her hair.

HE DIDN’T HAVE TO DO THAT. HE COULD JUST TAP HER SHOULDER. HE COULD JUST SCOOT NEARER. BUT HE DOESN’T. IT’S HIS FINGERS IN HER HAIR, NEAR THE SCAR THAT PUT HER INTO DEFENSE MODE except she’s not, and he’s there, and she can’t look directly at him and he moves in close and it’s so INTIMATE it’s so TENDER it’s like the earbuds sharing moment except somehow even MORE because now she’s aware, NOW the fluttering is there, the stolen glances, the close proximity, the way he relaxes when he’s close to her, the way he is being so much MORE than he’s been before.

His tapping finger and that coy, flirty, finger dancing?! The way she glances away as her finger dances towards him, on some level aware of what it means what it is a little too shy too coy, he way he hesitantly joins in and it’s something so SILLY so GOOFY such a light, light moment and GOD it’s beautifully done? You can FEEL the flirtiness of it, you can FEEL the little butterflies, the shyness and hesitation. The way Nol’s smile fades and he becomes serious before his finger hooks around hers, the way she thinks he’s playing until she, too, realizes, he’s not UGH. /UGH/ I SCREAM!!!!!!! How is it that a single finger hooked around another makes me scale the walls like this?! It’s such a small thing, but it’s so BOLD, initiating a dance even though he must be in pain! His back?! His body?! He’s not even on morphine ;~; He’s just. ENDURING IT.

And idk, I never know what’s going through his mind. The dance she offered him that they never got to share. Something more significant than fingers dancing, something that means MORE.

And again, that’s the thing. I think he’s so at war with himself. He’s still calling her Yoo, but he’s touching and so close and initiating that dance and he can tell himself it doesn’t mean anything, but he already knows. He already figured that out last episode. Soon he’ll be gone and he’ll be away from the people he loves, all alone again, and he’s scared to go. He still can’t bring himself to use her name, he can’t be so familiar with her - and yet is this not a more familiar way of being? I feel like part of is is that feeling of how fleeting this moment is, wanting to capture as much of it as possible, finally acting on what he wants. All those times he’s reached out only to close his fist, and this time he isn’t hesitating, this time he isn’t denying himself. This is what he wants, so he goes for it.

Will he regret it? I hope he’s far enough beyond his point of no return that he can’t. I hope he’s acting out of clarity that if this is the case, if this is how he feels, then why shouldn’t he allow himself this. Perhaps there’s fear that when he comes back it will all be different, that this will be a fleeting dream and everyone will move on without him. It feels like the cusp of a dream and reality, where you allow yourself to indulge because soon you return to the real world, to the waking nightmare of reality and this will be all you have left to carry with you.

It feels even more likely when he crumbles when she mentions when he returns. Perhaps it could be that he DOES intend to never come back after he releases, but idk, I guess I’m just so hopeful that’s not the case? It could be a parallel to the hug in the rain, when she asked if any of it was real and he hugged her because it wasn’t until it was and he couldn’t bear to say so. But it also feels so much like he’s afraid. The way he buries his head in her shoulder, his face hidden so she can’t see his emotions, their hands still held at their side feels so much like he’s afraid and doesn’t want to say so, wants to put on a brave face but he can’t. “When he returns” because for a time he will be away and he just had the sweetest taste of calm and when he wakes up from this dream the waking nightmare resumes, he’ll again be all alone and it’s so much harder to go back to alone when you’ve had a taste for this, when you’ve indulged. How can he go back to before, how can he face this new stage alone?

It’s such a sad little scene, the way they’re standing together, another dance interrupted, but at the same time, there’s something sweet. Very bittersweet, I guess. Maybe it’s just because he’s too weary and hasn’t had it in him to put up the walls again, but to see him, yet again, seeking that comfort in her, allowing himself something he once would have denied himself. Allowing himself to feel his feelings and to comfort himself.

There’s just so much that is beautiful and painful about this episode. For this to be the first time he’s felt peaceful and calm and he nearly died in order to have this moment? The knowing that he will have to leave, that he’ll have to return to feeling small and insignificant, that he has to face a new fear when he goes to prison, when this little suspended moment in time is all over. While I personally think - or hope - we’ll get to see a positive transformation from Nol while he’s locked up, thanks to the counseling he’ll be going through, it’s still hard to watch him have to leave this. I don’t want to romanticize his sentence by any means lol but I do think being away from his family, away from the people who chip away at him and tear him down, can give him so peace to confront what he hasn’t been able to. I don’t think it will be a total transformation of any kind - just the necessary first steps. Nol needs to be away from the Hiraharas, and to learn to see the worth in himself.

I mentioned this earlier in this post, but I’ve been thinking a LOT about perception of self, and how others see us. For instance, the version of me that I intimately know, that exists to me, doesn’t necessarily exist to others. Likewise, there are people who will see me in very different ways than I see myself, and it’s not that they don’t know me well, it’s just that we all are different people to everyone we know. We’re multifaceted and shaped by our experiences, but also by our actions and how we’ve affected the people with whom we interact.

Nol sees himself as a villain, as a monster, as someone who needs to be punished. But that’s not the version of him that Shinae knows, or Dieter or Soushi, either. To them, he’s a hero, he’s someone who does good. Shinae described him as the sun and while I think that’s partly because of his bright smile and bubbly personality as Yeonggi, I think it’s also in the way that he can make things a little better for everyone. Nol has never been able to see himself the way others see him, though, because he’s so pre-occupied with the version of himself he knows, the one that’s been so heavily influenced by the Hiraharas. That he’s a mistake, that he shouldn’t exist, that everything would be better without him. And because he can’t see those versions of himself, he can’t see that it’s not true. Shinae certainly wouldn’t be better off without him, nor would Soushi or Dieter. BECAUSE he’s in their lives, they are better off. And that’s what he needs to learn to see, to reconcile with the version of him that exists. Because sure, that’s part of him. Maybe it’s not correct, but it’s a part of his identity. But so is the version of him that exists to his friends. So is the version of him that Nana loves. And obviously, it’s not so easy to wake up to those sides, because of how overwhelming this version of him is. But I hope that time away from the people who feed into that image, with some counseling might help him start to clear that away and better see himself for who he is, all the multitudes that he is.

Because here’s the thing - people contain a range of good and bad, that’s what makes us human. Our choices ultimately define that, but so do our circumstances. This is why I can offer empathy towards characters like Kousuke and Alyssa who have made choices that we wouldn’t consider right, but make sense for their circumstances. Nol contains so much darkness, but he also contains so much light. Maybe he’s not as radiant as Yeonggi - but maybe it’s only because he hasn’t had the chance to be. Who could he be with a break from the people who tear him apart? Who could he be away from their influence? That’s what I’m keen to see, and that’s why I think he’s not intending to leave everyone after prison - or at least not GHOST people. Maybe he does need to get physically away, go to college abroad, but that doesn’t mean he’d be abandoning his friends this time.

Nol’s real family sucks. But this family - his found family - they can bring him the joy and happiness he deserves, even before he thinks he deserves it. Again, maybe I’m just being really hopeful, but I just feel like this is a significant, defining moment for him, hopefully the beginning of him realizing he’s allowed to indulge, he’s allowed the same comfort he’s offered to others.

Gosh what a tangent lol I know this post would be a mess. I JUST. I HAVE SO MANY FEELINGS. I have sooooooo many disorganized feelings seeing Nol like this, how sad I feel how happy I feel how much my stupid heart pitter patters over his interactions with Shinae. The callback to the dance at the formal where she was so uncomfortable (BUT NOW! NOW! SHE’S NOT!!!!!!) the teasing about her dancing, and he WILL miss her. HE’LL MISS HER! UGH /GOD/

But boy do I hope Dieter is fast asleep lmao ;~; I don’t think Shinae or Nol are ready to face what is unfolding, but Dieter reads them so well, he’s aware of things before they are. He knows what he is, for lack of better word “competing” against, and I think maybe he even knows it’s a losing battle. He made his move and she turned him down and I think he’s accepted her friendship with grace and delight - getting to know her better, getting to grow closer to her than he ever thought. And god, isn’t it painful to watch her and know that she seems to be drawn somewhere else, that it’s nothing you can do anything about? Because Dieter loves Nol, too. He probably understands how someone would be drawn to him at all! And while I think Dieter is a character who would handle things with grace, it would still hurt. I don’t think Shinae and Nol are a thing that, if they ever happen, would do so any time soon, and by that time I like to think Dieter would be over Shinae in that way, that they’d be close friends still, that they’d be people who root for each other and want the best for each other. But for him to have that awareness NOW, ugh the pain. He’s already taken note of the way she is with Nol vs how she is with him, the way she was so overwrought when they found out about all the secrets and lies, when they found her crying in the rain.

I DON’T WANT HIM TO GO THROUGH THAT DAMNIT ;A;

But we are definitely at this point where it’s a little too obvious to deny, a little too obvious to look away from. Any attempt at earning Shinae’s affection feels like you’re competing with something else. Even if she’s not ready to face it and admit it yet, it doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist. Whether or not it’s romantic or not is for her to decide, but for us as readers, we know that it’s something significant, that they have a mutual effect on each other that’s undeniable. There is so much trust shared between them now - despite it all, she trusts him, and he knows now that he can trust and rely on her, too. And as an outsider, it’s just obvious that something is there, however that something is defined. It’s not a stretch to say that Nol takes a priority, that she will at this point push things aside for him.

Even romance aside, I think this is a dynamic we’ll be seeing a lot of going forward, because Nol still is not fast to open up to people and to rely on them. Trusting Shinae like this, letting her in to this more vulnerable side, I think defines a lot of their relationship to come as they evolve. Maybe Nol will leave and go abroad and maybe Shinae will date other people in that time, but I think we’ll see that Nol maintains a special place in her heart, that will be difficult for a lot of people to compare to. How do you compare to someone who has these experiences with her, who has developed a bond through these trials and tribulations lol?

GOD.

I HAVE SO MANY FEELINGS I JUST. WANNA!!!!!!!! SCREAAAAAAAAAAAAAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#I Love Yoo #ILY Brainrot #ILY Spoilers #ILY FP #Shinae Yoo #Nol #Nolan Oliver T. Lochain #Stalkyoo #Aegi #gotta.... keep other things from the tags for now so i don't SPOIL huhuhhu #i'll try to remember to add them in a month LMAO #AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH #/AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA/#FEELINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!#Idk if this post is too rambly or if it's coherent or what #it's like 4 a.m. and i've been rambling on this for like 2 hours trying to get it all out and AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH #pls pls PLS feel free to respond in the comments since i've marked this for spoilers lol I JUST. WANNA YELL #and also i'm v curious to hear other peoples' thoughts on certain things in here i wanna know if you agree with my expectations/hopes #I feel like i'll be expanding on some thoughts in here at another time but also for now I'VE JUST TRIED TO WORD VOMIT EVERYTHING OUT #so many soft and tender feelings #a little sad a little wistful a little bittersweet #but mostly just so much hope #what a truly truly beautiful episode #definitely read it with the sound on because the music just punctuates PERFECTLY the tone is just SO RIGHT because of it #;~;#now i'm gonna go cry again LMAO #ILY Commentary

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linklethehistorian · 2 years ago

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Linkle, I must know, what are your thoughts on Mori as a character? His actions and motivations?? Id love to hear your opinion, btw that last chapter of cherish was great!! I loved it so much!!!

Ahhh hello there, anon, thank you so much! 🥺😭💕💖🥰 It’s such an honor to get a message like this from someone who is reading the fic. 💕🥺💖🥰💕🥺💖🥰 I’m so glad you liked Chapter 12; it definitely has one of my own personal favorite scenes, tbh (but I won’t take up your time talking about that right now lol). Having a fan base for Cherish is truly lovely; I’m so blessed by each and every one of you. 🥺💖

As for your question, I’m always happy to share!

Before I say anything at all on my opinion, though, I’m first going to make it clear that I am completely setting aside that one…particular matter that has been discussed to death by the fandom for the moment, because I fear far too many people tend to forget that it is entirely possible to make any remotely positive commentary on a fictional character without that actually somehow meaning you condone his alleged…preferences. For the people in the back that need to hear this out loud to be set at ease: I in absolutely no way do.

Now with that out of the way for a bit, let’s talk about the rest of Mori. I’ll throw it under the cut, though, both for length and for potential spoilers of multiple light novels (Dark Era, Fifteen, Storm Bringer, etc.) and obviously the manga up to his last appearance in current arc. Oh and obviously the typical Mori-related trigger subjects. Yeah.

Honestly, on a general note, these days I think Mori as a character is super cool; I’m not sure where precisely I’d rate him on the list of characters because I honestly like nearly every character in BSD and think they’re pretty awesomely written, but on a general scale of 1 to 10, he’s a very solid 8 or 9 for me.

My first introduction to him was…admittedly not at all the best possible representation of him.

When I first joined the fandom, I began my journey through the series by watching the anime adaption of Dark Era, at the behest of a dear friend who said I would be best off doing so before I watched the rest of the show (of which there were only two seasons at the time) and then reading the manga, in order to get the best and most meaningful experience; it is not something I remotely regret, and in honesty, I would probably wholeheartedly recommend any new people to do the same, if they intended to start with the anime. Regardless, though, this decision did have the impact of making me immediately strongly dislike Mori as a person from the very start, given what he did to the orphans, Oda, and Dazai by extension.

Really, I wouldn’t say that I came to see him in any particular shades of grey motivation-wise until I watched the episode titled Double Black, in which there was the first reference of what would have become of the Port Mafia and Yokohama as a whole had he not usurped the throne to the organization so many years ago.

After that, I began to look at him with a bit more understanding and curiosity, horrible and ruthless though his nature may still mostly have been. Fifteen (specifically the light novel, NOT the anime) — which it should be said, I think is the best existing canon representation of Mori in terms of giving us a good look at his thoughts and motivations — only amplified that outlook and interest for me, and I think it alone is largely to thank for why I enjoy him as a character as much as I do in current time.

Although he’s definitely not someone I’d feel particularly comfortable writing an entire story solely around — as I don’t believe I’m expert nor absurdly passionate enough to do so compared to some genuine Mori fans that I know are out there out there — I nevertheless really, really do enjoy writing him, especially in Cherish (which is only the second time I’ve written him, if I’m honest — at least, in anything I’d consider publishing, anyway).

There’s just so much potential in him plot and personality-wise; he is incredibly flexible of a person in terms of his thoughts, mannerisms, motivations, and actions, which makes it super fun to explore and play around with when telling a story. I’d say he easily has one of the most fun personalities among the BSD ensemble, purely because of utterly unpredictable it can be; on one hand, he has moments where (at least outwardly) is capable of being extremely friendly, outgoing, generous and unassuming, and yet on the other, he is very much always inwardly observant of all that is going on around him and capable of quickly switching to being cold, calculating, and openly cruel at the drop of a hat. But even then, usually, his cruelty doesn’t come in the form of physical violence; it’s often emotional manipulation, intimidation, taking your fears and weaknesses and using them against you to get him whatever he feels he needs in the present moment. Sometimes, it isn’t even outwardly visible that the switch of gears happened; he knows how to poison you in the sweetest and most unassuming yet effective way possible — whether that poison is literal or metaphorical. He’s definitely the kind of person who could sing you to sing to sleep every night and kiss your cheek every morning even as he’s secretly plotting your demise. lol

That being said, I think a lot of the fandom, in their hatred for him as a person, tends to mischaracterize him a lot, rather than looking at it objectively. I’ve seen a lot of fics and general fandom takes that portray him as a sadistic person who is cruel simply for the sake of being cruel and does terrible things to others purely for the enjoyment factor, but that is 100% not who Mori is; canonically, Mori does what he does mostly, if not entirely, out of what he feels is necessity as the leader of the organization. Now, I’m not saying there may not be parts of him that enjoy certain things he does — it’s certainly more than possible, and even highly probable — but his actions as godfather are driven by achieving what he feels is the optimal solution, not by personal pleasure and amusement; as a matter of fact, in Fifteen, he even made it clear when speaking to Chuuya that he fully acknowledges a lot of what he does is morally reprehensible — he just feels that it is his duty to commit these atrocities for the ‘greater good’ of the organization, and that the end therefore justifies the means.

The thing is, there is a character in BSD who is exactly the way this portion of the fandom characterizes Mori, and he was even a member of the Port Mafia, so if people really wanted to canonically explore this dynamic of a character who wholly gets off on tormenting people, causing suffering and probing others’ heads rather than doing it as just a business practice, they absolutely could still do it and be true to canon by writing about said other character; it’s just that it’s not a convenient truth that a lot of the fandom wants or likes to face — because that would mean acknowledging that it was everyone’s beloved Dazai and not the oh-so-despised Mori who used to think in such a sick and twisted way during his days in the criminal underworld.

Granted, some people do write both characters very well and very accurately, and I applaud them, but I do find it frustrating when the fandom reduces either Mori to this purely evil, sadistic villain who is bad just for the sake of being bad, because he is so much more interesting as he truly is in canon.

It’s this dichotomy where his dedication to the overall well-being of his people and company is admirable and even understandable, yet at the same time his individual actions when you look at them from a moral perspective are pretty much all morally reprehensible in some way, shape, or form — if not in every way. The same is true of his time in the army; as a general concept, his desire to protect Japan during the Great War was on the whole admirable and understandable, we know that he was well-meaning about it, but at the same time, no matter how desperate the situation was, what he did to Yosano and his entire army was absolutely disgusting and unacceptable — especially because it came so easily to him to do it and he made no apologies for it nor expressed any guilt over the suffering he caused later on.

Do I think Mori is, on the whole, a good person? Absolutely not. Do I think that he sometimes has the best of intentions in mind with his schemes? In the grander scheme of things, yes; it’s just that he mostly doesn’t care who or how many he has to hurt to achieve that so long as it’s slightly less than his net gain from doing it, which in turn cancels out things enough to prevent him from ever being labeled as being or acting as a “good person” at any moment.

I think the best, most objective description of him is to say that he’s pragmatic and ruthless.

…And then obviously there’s the part that everyone in the fandom discusses to death — about the main universe version of him being into little girls. Not a whole lot to say about that; it’s gross, it’s wrong, it’s unforgivable, it’s morally reprehensible, and it’s chilling and disturbing and it definitely completely disqualifies him from being labeled a good person even if he had been able to earn that title from something he did somewhere along the way.

That being said — and I know this is probably going to be controversial to a lot of the fandom, so let me say upfront that I’m not saying that that isn’t 100% a valid and understandable reading of who he is and the way he feels based on all the evidence throughout the series, nor am I trying to convince anyone otherwise — purely because it is fiction and therefore all made up to begin with, at least for my own personal comfort, I typically choose in my own personal readings to just look at him as someone with a particular weakness for little girls because he’s fatherly — although I make no effort to claim that to be the objective truth, nor does such interpretation affect or influence any of my writings in any way; it’s simply the way I prefer to engage with BSD on my own personal time — outside of my writings.

As a matter of fact, in my one fic, Bittersweet Belief, he was intentionally written with the intention of being portrayed as a groomer, and in Cherish, his ‘tastes’ will be portrayed no less nor more suspicious than how they are in canon, and therefore it will never be fully, directly addressed, but may be interpreted however you wish.

I do not need people coming to me providing evidence of why they believe there is no way to look at it differently, as again, I am not arguing that it is objectively untrue in any way that Mori is written to be a pedo in BSD, and when in public spaces among other people talking about it I don’t even try to say otherwise, much less convince anyone of it. I understand fandom etiquette and I am not trying to erase anything about him from others’ perceptions in order to make him more “likable”. I am just engaging with BSD, whenever I am personally reading it and watching it, in the way that is more comfortable for me. Nothing more, nothing less.

Anyway, yeah, Mori’s a super fun character to write and observe in the BSD world! I think there’s a lot of depth to him and he’s very well-written — probably among my top past antagonists purely for the super interesting personality and the purely pragmatic outlook to life and business.

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milkymoon2483 · 2 years ago

Text

Flames made of Snow

Push & Pull - Episode 2 Frank Castle X Plus Size Jewish OFC

Previous episode | Series Masterlist | Next Episode

Summary: Frank can't keep his eyes or thoughts away from you. He struggles to accept his feelings, since he thinks they are deeply wrong and he shouldn't be acting on them. You sense something is different but every time you attempt to draw closer Frank just pushes you away.

Disclaimers:

I’m Jewish (and plus size) but I do not live in the US, so there might be some differences in the way certain things are done and some inaccuracies. My apologies.

Yes this is self indulgent because I’m feral for this man.

I’m secular and will not be discussing Judaism in length. Will explain some basics though that are mentioned in the story.

Rating: E.18+. MINORS DNI.

Warnings: Alternating POV, age gap (legal), Mentions of alcoholism, drinking, smoking, divorce, trauma, plus size reader, insecurities, problematic relationship with food, and probably a bunch of other stuff. This is a little dark. WC: ~4300

Thank you my lovelies. @romanarose @hbc8 @my-secret-shame-but-fanfiction @boysddontcry @imaswellkid

Flames made of Snow

Hannah Leah Friedman. All grown up.

Frank's eyes rested on you the moment he came into Deborah’s house. It was impossible to avoid you, shining brighter than any other person in the room, you kept circling his peripheral vision, drawing his eyes in. No teenage awkwardness clang to you, you were graceful, feminine, and Frank found it hard not to notice.

And he hated himself for it. She’s so young. Too fucking young.

He’d hoped and prayed that three years ago he imagined something that wasn’t there, instead it was now amplified tenfold. You’d glance at him briefly, causing his gut to stir a little each time your eyes would meet.

The Unbearable weight of people's presence was getting too heavy for you to carry. The first day of the Shiva was in ‘full swing’ and Deborah’s house was buzzing with activity. According to tradition the first of kin are supposed to be in mourning, and it was other people’s job to cater to you. Deborah didn’t let that minor detail get in the way of her running around and making sure everyone was taken care of, it was obvious she wanted to keep busy. You were right behind her, refilling trays of food, loading the dishwasher and actively avoiding any old yente that would inevitably ask you about having a boyfriend, or going on a diet ‘because you're so pretty’, or both.

Passing behind ‘The Ednas’, two of your late father’s aunts, who shared a name and an attitude, you did catch word about the ‘handsome goi’. It made you chuckle, realizing that the women in your family must have a ‘type’.

A handsome goi indeed.

You tried not to think about him, not to pay attention to him, focus on the fact that this is your father’s shiva and it’s clearly not a time to ogle at him.

Dressed in a thin black sweater with the sleeves pushed up to reveal his forearms, his ridiculously toned forearms, laced with veins that ran all the way down to his large hands. He was giving you plenty not to think about.

People called your name left and right, asking questions, trying to make small talk, pushing their noses into your life and giving you unsolicited advice, making the nauseating lump in your throat grow larger. The cacophony of noises and smells and faces drowned you, each 'commiserating' hug making it harder to breathe.

“Don’t eat that, it's pure sugar” your mother noted when you attempted to take a bite from a cookie. The first bite of food you’ve had in hours. A wave of shame washed over you, just like it did when you were younger, no bite of food escaped your mother’s prodding eyes, and she didn’t spare you any commentary. This is why you preferred to eat alone. That woman took all the joy out of eating.

You rolled your eyes at her as blatantly as you could, putting the cookie down and grabbing your glass of red wine with you as you exited the room.

Fuck you, Jaqeline.

You took your coat and silently snuck out into the back yard.

The thin layer of snow crunched under your boots as you lit up the cigarette, inhaling deeply and allowing the nicotine buzz to dissolve the nausea, soothing your frayed nerves.

“So you smoke now?” the low grave voice called behind you, making you turn your head swiftly.

“And drink, and eat carbs, and do a bunch of other shit mother would disapprove of” you replied, the exhaustion and bitterness loosening your tongue.

"A bunch..huh" Frank chuckled at your response. “I’m gonna tell Deb” he jokingly threatened.

“Go ahead. We shared one this morning, I’m sure she’d love to take a break” you smirked, taking another puff.

He raised his arms in defeat.

“How have you been kiddo?”

“I’m 23 Frank, not a kiddo anymore” god you hated that fucking nickname. The sight of him was too much, too heavy for you to bear at that moment, making you bite back.

“Ok Han, sweetheart, how are you?” he asked again, softening his voice.

“I’m fucking amazing, all things considered” tears prickled your eyes again, making them look glassy and huge.

Please don’t hug me, please don’t hug me.

Frank fought the urge to wrap you in his arms, offering instead a sterile pet on your shoulder. Maybe coming after you was a bad idea, it probably was. It was selfish and stupid. He should have left you alone, should have let you rest from the prodding eyes of others, even his own.

He watched your plush lips, in a shade of berry, wrap around the cigarette, immediately diverting his look to his boots.

“Do you want me to go? It’s ok if you need a few minutes to yourself” he continued, hoping you’d tell him to stay.

“No Frank, I’m fine, I’m sorry.”

“S'ok, your dad’s passed, and you weren’t super close but it still hurts.”

“I’ll be ok, I’m just a little overwhelmed by all the living people right now” you chuckled wryly.

You stood there in silence, not an uncomfortable one. Frank's presence was surprisingly calming. Or maybe just less of a burden than anybody else's. As long as you weren't looking at him you were fine.

Frank reached out to you, plucking the cigarette out of your hand.

He pulled his bottom lip, licking and scraping his teeth over it, and placed the lipstick-stained filter between his lips, taking a deep draw. The orange tip burned bright as your heart rate accelerated.

"Fuck I miss this shit" he said as he returned it back to you, exhaling the thick smoke.

You gulped.

His eyes sat heavy on your face, making you self conscious. You attempted your best nonchalant smile before drawing the cigarette back into your mouth.

“What?” you finally asked, tilting your head.

“Nothin’..I better go inside” he replied before quickly going back into the house.

Frank’s gut churned. Get the fuck away from her.

*******

The day was finally over, only 6 more of them left. You turned into bed as early as you could, craving some relief from other people, cuddling up under the blanket in the cold guest room.

The image of Frank's lips on your cigarette swirled constantly in your mind. You were seeking its meaning, like you always have, with everything he did. It was probably just as meaningless as any other gesture.

Your phone softly pinged

21:44 Frank Hey Han, just wanted to check on you. Need anything?

21:45 Hannah Hey Frank. Sorry for the salty attitude. I'll be ok. Debs taking good care of me.

21:46 Frank youre allowed to be pissed, didnt scare me. Thanks for the smoke btw, needed that.

21:46 Hannah I got more where that came from. Dont actually smoke, just bought one pack.

21:48 Frank Nah I think that was enough for me at my old age.

21:49 Hannah I think youve still got a few good years in you zayde.

21:53 Frank You callin me grandpa? Ouch

21:54 Hannah Did you google that now?

21:54 Frank Did no such thing, meidale

21:55 Hannah Showing off your yiddish Im impressed

21:57 Frank Thats about all I got, and the cuss words your dad taught me Gonna miss that schmuck

21:57 Hannah Schmuck indeed Gonna miss him too

21:58 Frank Goodnight Han

22:00 Hannah Goodnight Frank

You were thankful you were too exhausted to try and decipher the meaning of this. Frank rarely texted you, and it was always one message, letting you know some logistic detail. This was different. Or you just wanted it to be, you couldn't tell anymore. You fell asleep shortly after, too tired to dream.

Frank attempted to convince himself this was ok. just making sure she's ok. He was being a good friend to Saul, that's all. He didn’t cross any lines, he didn’t say or do anything inappropriate. Every thought about how badly he wanted to hug you was pushed as far back as he could manage. The thoughts about how pretty you were, weren’t even acknowledged.

*******

When you woke up the following morning it took you a few moments to piece together the events of the previous day. It was one of those days that felt like a week. Just 24 hours ago you woke up in your dorm room and now you're here, and your father’s dead and buried.

The realization of 6 more days of shiva hit you hard, you didn’t even know what you’d be doing after it’s over. Maybe if you went back to college you could pretend it was all a weird dream.

But then there was Frank, and he was different, and you didn’t know what to make of it. If anything at all.

Central heating finally made it warm enough to draw the covers back, and you dragged yourself into the kitchen to get some much needed coffee.

Mercifully, the house was quiet and the fresh coffee pot was all yours. Everyone else was still asleep as you sipped in silence, enjoying some precious solitude before the house was filled with people again. You drew the checkered curtain back, allowing the cool winter light to pour through the kitchen window. A fresh layer of snow covered the front lawn, piling on the bulbs of the metallic menorah lawn decor, creating flames made of snow.

*******

By the 4th day of the shiva the crowd dwindled significantly, only a few 'regulars' remained, some of which you knew came for the free food. The house was filled with a constant quiet murmur, like a background noise you didn’t realize was annoying you until it has stopped. Deborah operated on what seemed like an endless source of renewable energy, while yours dissipated with each passing day.

You’ve already admitted to yourself that you were waiting for Frank. He told you he would be able to make it again that evening, and you snuck back into the guest room to fix yourself up as discreetly as possible. Vanity had no room in the jewish shiva, you weren’t supposed to wear makeup, or change clothes, or even look at yourself in the mirror. A jewish person in mourning must immerse themselves fully in grief. But your grief was overshadowed, pushed to the side by an urge you have been suppressing for nine years. There was no logic behind your actions, yet you were compelled.

As Frank entered the living room he found you deep behind ‘enemy lines’.

“So Hanneleh, do you have a boyfriend back at college? No? That’s a shame.” “You know you can try the Atkins diet, I’ve lost ten pounds on it last year” “Remind me what it is you major in? Psychology? Why doncha go for something more practical like Ruthy, Moshe’s girl. She’s studying computer science”

He admired how you addressed every question with poise, seemingly unfazed by the not so subtle jabs of criticism pointed at you by the three older women that surrounded you.

“Excuse me ladies. Deb asked me to get Hannah, she’s needed in the kitchen” Frank’s voice boomed over the chatter.

You gave him the most thankful look and followed him towards the kitchen. A horrifying thought crept up on him, he would do anything for you to keep looking at him like that.

You both slipped silently into the empty kitchen. Frank took your hand, leading you into the pantry and shut the door behind him.

He knew this was risky the moment his hand touched yours but his body acted before his damn brain had a chance to catch up.

“Shhh” he put his finger on his lips. “Be very very quiet” his impression of Elmer Fudd made you both chuckle.

“Thank you for coming to my rescue, but I would have handled that myself” You said with a slight smirk.

“I’ve always wanted to keep you safe, why stop now?” He replied quietly, in a more serious tone than he would've liked. “For the record, I think you're doing great”

“I try” you said, looking down at your hands because you felt like holding his gaze would break you. Frank's eyes followed yours. “That’s pretty” he took your wrist in his large hand, running his thumb gently over the small rose tattoo. Heat began to pull in the apex of your thighs while your belly stirred so violently it made you nauseous.

“Thanks, that’s for grandma Rose” you carefully raised your eyes to meet his.

You didn’t notice that you have stopped breathing altogether.

You stood there for a moment that stretched, a pregnant silence between you, pulling the blood from your head towards your gut. The air drained out of the small space, and it was suddenly obvious how close you were standing.

The fuck are you doing Castle?…Frank scolded himself. It’s like he couldn’t help it. Knowing this was wrong didn’t make him stop. He was breaching his own boundaries, the ones he promised himself he wouldn’t. He crossed them one by one, taking little steps in your direction.

“Frank!! Did you find the dates in the pantry?” Deborah’s voice called, making you gulp for air.

“Yeah Deb, thanks” He replied loudly, before grabbing the box and gesturing you to follow him back out.

********

By now texting with Frank at night has become a ritual, something you looked forward to at the end of each exhausting day. You'd always dance around anything too serious, too personal, too suggestive.

22:01 Frank Hey Han, good seeing you today How are you?

22:03 Hannah Yeah, you too Im ok. Thanks again for the rescue mission They would have eventually made me lose my shit

22:04 Frank Couldve fooled me I told you dont mind em, youre doing great And youre beautiful.

22:05 Hannah Well youre not so bad yourself Im not everyones cup of tea and thats ok.

22:06 Frank I bet youre lots of peoples cup of tea trust me on that bet boys chase you all the time, maybe some girls too

22:07 Hanna

Youre gonna make me blush now And people only chase me to ask me for my class notes But youre right, its both boys and girls.

22:08 Frank Im serious. If I was in their place Id be hogging your class notes too.

22:10 Hannah Well I guess sometimes its not that simple But thanks.

22:11 Frank You know I mean it

22:11 Hannah well now i AM blushing

22:13 Frank Im going to shower and head to bed. Goodnight Han.

22:14 Hannah Goodnight Frank.

Every breach of the invisible border around what you both avoided was met with the same response. Was he trying to let you down gently? Were you reading him all wrong? Would there come a time when he didn't stop you?

You sighed heavily. A mixture of arousal and defeat pooled in your gut. The thought of him in the shower, the hot water pouring down his muscular back, the scent of his soap, you could almost smell it, almost feel it on the tips of your fingers. "Show me..show me how you touch yourself baby" you imagined his deep voice rumble through your body, the ghost of his hot breath in your ear. "That’s right…make yourself feel good, pretty girl"

A pathetic old man lurking around a young girl's social media like a goddamn creep. That's what he was. His long forgotten instagram account was being put into use in the most fowl way. The content was relatively tame for what he imagined girls your age posting. You looked different in the pictures, happier, carefree. Your life seemed full, and fun, and you seemed to fit right in it. His eyes lingered on the short video of you dancing, the skirt of your floral dress swirled around your legs, soft curves swaying to the music, laughter bubbling, face flushed from the heat.

He imagined peeling that dress off, the scent of your sweat and perfume clinging to your dampened skin, the pads of his fingers digging into your soft flesh, you calling his name, pleading for him to touch you. His cock twitched in interest at the thought, Frank pressed on it with the heel of his palm, feeling the familiar spark of pleasure begin to skittle along his abdomen.

Fuckfuckfuck no…no.

He took a deep breath, clearing his mind of any thoughts of you, and your sweet smile, and your lovely smell, and your plush body. Fuck you looked so soft. He would not be touching himself with you still clinging to his memory. He was determined to do right by you, by your father. It didn’t matter what he wanted, or what you thought you wanted.

********

He didn’t plan on coming to the shiva again, staying away from you was the main objective, but when Deb called asking him for help he couldn’t refuse. He attempted to mentally prepare himself to face you, but when you greeted him at the door his resolve crumbled.

"Heya” you smiled brightly at him, embracing him with one arm while holding a pile of napkins in the other.

He’d been fighting with himself on this for days, and he kept losing. Maybe he was tired of fighting, so when you asked him to give you a ride back to your dad’s house, he happily agreed.

The day was finally over. It was finally done. You breathed a deep sigh of relief as the burden slowly began to lift.

Your head throbbed as Frank loaded your luggage into his truck. You needed to think, to process this on your own, to sit with yourself in silence and figure out your next moves.

“You sure you wanna be in that old house all alone honey? Maybe stay a few more days with us” Deborah kept insisting and you loved her for it, but after seven days of constantly being around other people you just craved some solitude.

“Thanks Deb but I’ll be fine. I really need to clear some stuff out of the house, and if anything happens Frank is just across the street” you answered, hoping she would finally let you go.

Frank drove in silence, the radio played faintly in the background, it was just enough to steer your stream of consciousness towards the music, but not enough to bother you. “Fields of gold”...you always did love that song.

You barely stole looks his way, his profile was striking, sharp cheekbones, strong jawline, and the slope of that dramatic nose you adored. The eyes that seemed sharp and solely focused on the road ahead, averted straight towards you as soon as the car stopped at the red light. They were deep, soft, empathetic. The corners of his mouth lifted only slightly, but his eyes creased nonetheless.

He wanted so badly to lay his hand on your thigh, let the warmth of it seep through your tights. Offer you some comfort, a strong wall to lean against. Whatever that other feeling that stirred inside of him was, it never dulled his need to protect you.

It was surreal, driving up to your father’s house. The pale blue two story looked just like you remembered it. You walked up the snow covered trail to the front door, suddenly dreading what you’ll find inside.

It was the smell that hit you first, bringing that familiar nervous energy you always had walking in there, not knowing what version of your father you’re going to meet.

His black coffee cup was still sitting on the kitchen table, contents molded and disgusting. His robe hung on the recliner, next to a paper that was barely two weeks old. The scene was tragic in it’s simplicity.

Just two weeks ago he was here, very much alive, maybe he waited for you to come visit. Maybe he wanted to call or text, maybe he was getting worse and he thought he couldn't burden you with that.

Tears began to blur your vision, as your chest caved in at the sight of your father’s empty home.

Frank had carried your suitcase straight upstairs to your bedroom. When he went back down he found you in tears. He ran towards you, and as his arms wrapped tightly around you, some deep voice inside of him whispered finally. He banished the selfish beast, quickly returning his focus back to you. But you were soft, just like he imagined you’d be. Soft and warm and lovely. You fit in his arms perfectly.

“Shh…Hannah, sweetheart…it’s ok.” He spoke quietly, running his heavy hands on your hair.

”Fuck Frank, he was all alone..I was such a dick to him at the end” you sobbed, smearing your tears on his sweatshirt.

“No, no. It’s been so hard on you. None of this is your fault” Frank cooed.

“I knew he had problems, I knew he was sick, I should have done more, I should have been there for him instead of running away like an asshole” you kept scolding yourself through your tears as the remorse flooded you.

He ran soothing circles on your back, pulling you closer to his warmth, wrapping you in his solid embrace. You were suddenly aware of every part of your body that was pressing against his. He smelled like his cologne, and trees, and leather, and the winter breeze that bit your face. You remained nuzzled into his chest until your tears began to subside.

“Sweetheart, Han, look at me” he begged and you lifted your head, wiping your tears with your sleeves.

His large palms engulfed your face, all red and puffy, as he ran two thumbs under your closed eyes. “Look at me please” he asked again, and you opened your eyes slowly, afraid that the eye contact would make you burst into tears again.

His eyes were so soft when he spoke. “Absolutely none of this is your fault. Do not blame yourself on a lifetime of his bad decisions. He loved you, as well as he could. Please just try to forgive him and don’t blame yourself, Ok?”

“Ok” you replied almost silently.

“Ok” He mirrored your voice.

He placed a gentle kiss on your forehead, his lips lingered as he drew a deep breath in, inhaling your scent. This was the closest you have ever been, and the proximity made your head spin. Heat drizzled in the apex of your thighs, a mixture of sadness and longing and want.

He broke off the kiss, only to lean his forehead on yours, sliding his palms slowly towards your neck. You could feel the ghost of his breath, getting progressively heavier and synchronizing with yours, as you began to slowly tilt your head upwards, bringing your lips closer to his. His thumb swiped on your cheek, tugging the very edge of your mouth in a motion so gentle it could be mistaken for being unintentional.

Except it wasn’t.

It would be so easy to press his mouth on yours, to taste your lovely lips. He would never dare do that.

"I better go" he rasped, laying one palm on your shoulder.

He gathered every morsel of self control in his possession to make himself stop.

You backed off slowly, turning towards the kitchen to wash your face and salvage a modicum of your dignity, the sting of rejection bringing another wave of tears to your eyes.

“Yeah, thanks Frank. I think…I think I’ll be fine. I’m just so tired” you sniffled. You desperately wanted him to leave, so you could cry again, cry to your heart's content. You wanted to feel the vines of pain that wrapped themselves around your chest, constricting your breath.

“S’ok Han, I know you’ll be ok. Please text me if you need anything, I’ll be home” He smiled back at you.

Frank closed the door behind him with a heavy sigh. You’d be just across the road, yet so far away. He wanted to stay, to comfort you, to make you forget all about it, to kiss you long and deep.

But he knew himself too well, he knew he had a tendency of trying to save people that didn't ask for it, and it usually backfired spectacularly.

So fucking selfish and stupid, Castle. So goddamn pretentious of you to think that you can somehow fix this, that you can somehow 'save' her. She doesn’t need you. And you sure as hell can’t ‘fix’ her drunk dead daddy for her.

To your surprise, the dam didn't break and the tears didn't come. Drained and emotionless, you sat there for a while, staring at the living room that still contained so much evidence of life. A small sad life.

Your eyes were drawn to a picture of you and your dad, right after your bat-mitzvah ceremony. You had just begun speaking again and he was thrilled to be invited. You looked almost normal, just a grumpy teenager in an ill-fitting blue dress and her dad, beaming with pride, with his arm wrapped around her shoulder.

Exhaustion settled in your bones, the full weight of the past week and the tasks ahead laid heavy on you.

When Frank texted an hour later you were already asleep.

22:12 Frank Hey Han. You feeling better?

22:48 Frank Goodnight sweetheart

It’s been more than thirteen years since Frank’s last drink, and he didn’t remember missing it as much as he did tonight. He had failed. He had failed Saul and he had failed you. Wanting you had only made it so much worse. He was undeserving of you, regardless of your age, that was just a small part of the million different reasons he could not allow this.

Guilt ate away at him slowly, bit by bit, and there was nothing he could do to numb the pain.

He hadn’t told you yet, because your father asked him not to, but eventually he will have to. He knew he would have to confess his sins, and that look in your eyes, that lovely thankful look, it would be gone.

FIN.

#frank castle #frank castle x female reader #frank castle angst #jon bernthal #jewish representation #jewish reader #x plus size reader #original character

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shin-meddlesome-hero · 2 years ago

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G-Witch Episode 13 Commentary

I liked how the show answered the question of Suletta’s mental state after Plant Quetta. On the outside, she looks like she wasn’t affected by that at all, even her friends comment on it, but immediately after that scene its revealed that she doesn’t feel quite well with what happened and she has to ask her mother for reassurance because her mother’s words are what’s keeping her convictions from being shattered. She isn’t able to really think about what she did and all its repercussions because that would psychologically destroy her, so at the moment, it’s her conviction that she must do whatever needs to be done in order to protect Miorine and her friends what keeps her from having a major crisis.

On the other hand, she seems to have a desire for atoning. First, she saves Nika from getting squished at the risk of having the same fate herself (karma sure works fast in this universe!) and then she defies Norea and Sophie to a duel in an attempt of showing them that Gundams aren’t killing machines. Depending on where this show is on the scale of cynicism vs idealism the outcome of this can vary. In my opinion, there’s no way that Suletta can convince them even if she wins the duel. She doesn’t know much of the true nature of the conflict between Earthians and Spacians so it’s useless and naive to apply the rules from Asticassia in that scenario. Therefore, it’s very possible that Suletta wins only to see Nika getting killed anyway immediately after. Now, that would destroy whatever innocence she has left and make her change, probably towards a darker path.

Despite that, there’s a possibility that Nika could be saved. Her goal is to achieve an understanding between Earthians and Spacians so if she just gets killed off it would be like the show is telling us that it’s impossible for Earthians and Spacians to understand each other. (Also it would prove that Gundams are just for destruction and it seems that the show is actually looking for an alternative to that). The anime isn’t super idealistic but it isn’t grimdark either so, if Nika gets saved it must be on a way that’s convincing and satisfying (Suletta winning the duel, simply won’t work) or, if she dies, it’ll have to happen on a meaningful way that isn’t completely hopeless, like in an heroic sacrifice or something like that. Whatever outcome this arc has, it has the potential of being very interesting if it gets executed well.

More scattered thoughts:

*The moment Suletta tells Nika her “run gain one, move forward gain two” catchphrase I was pretty sure that Suletta had unknowingly doomed Nika since we know that Propera’s magical phrase isn’t necessarily that good. And in a way she did, Nika probably got the courage to confront Norea and Sophie from Suletta, so if she gets killed, there’s another layer of dramatic irony in there.

*I keep wondering if the newtype thing exists in this universe. If it does it would be really convenient to explain certain things like, how was Suletta able to find Nika and rescue her just in time? We know that from a narrative point of view, it’s because that was what served the story best, but it’ll be funny to just explain these things with “newtype powers” and call it a day, XD.

*I thought that I was going to hate Elan 5 but after this episode he seems like a funny little guy. It would be cool if it turns out that he has his own ploy against Elan Prime and House Peil.

*We didn’t see Bob, our good friend Bob on this episode, but the opening seems to indicate that there’ll be a tragic hero arc in store for him. I’m looking ahead for that.

*It’s so amusing to see Prospera being all “don’t worry, dear, you didn’t get out of hand at all 🥰” towards Suletta, then turning around and telling Miorine: “she did get too far, didn’t she? 😬”. Such a manipulative woman! At least Mio is smart enough to know that there’s something wrong going on between Suletta and her mother. On the other hand, she may fall for the Quiet Zero scheme and that doesn’t look good at all.

*Holy fuck! That ending!! I’m really tempted to ramble about it on another post. As for now, I can say that Suletta really looks like a Witch from Mercury here, something I previously thought wouldn’t happen. I was so wrong!

Anyway, that’s all for today. Looking forward for the rest of this cour and for more incoherent screaming about it.

#gundam the witch from mercury #g witch #g witch spoilers #gundam suisei no majo #suletta mercury #nika nanaura #miorine rembran #prospera mercury #writing #gundamblogging

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adultswim2021 · 2 years ago

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Harvey Birdman, Attorney at Law: “The Death of Harvey” | July 22, 2007 - 11:45PM | S04E07

Well, I’ve made my way through all of Harvey Birdman. At one time it seemed like essential viewing, even though I found it to be my least favorite of the OG Adult Swim line-up. I turned on it by the time season one ended, and watched most of the series for the first time through this blog. And I’m gonna level with you: I don’t even really wanna talk about this episode all that much.

The final episode actually follows the events of the previous episode; Birdman has to try all of his cases again, so he does in a very short amount of time. It’s just an excuse to call back nearly every episode of the show’s run. This show was already lousy with callbacks, imagine an episode where that’s the main thing? Anyway, turns out one of the villains he tried before the series began has also been set free; he’s a big giant monster guy who begins destroying the city. Birdman must return to his superhero roots and fight him with brute force.

Meanwhile, Phil is revealed to be alive, and is taking a speeding cross-country trip in a bus, driving it entirely in reverse. He refers to his own situation as “final episode stunt casting”. Phil’s story literally collides with Birdman’s when his bus finally shows up moments after Birdman's moment of triumph; striking Birdman and killing him in the process. There’s also a subplot about X the Eliminator or Exterminator (I don’t feel like looking it up) finally maybe getting Birdman’s crest.

Look, were I a fan of the show, I could imagine this being really pleasing. It’s a fangasm of the highest order. The only way it could possibly be better is if all the characters on here were portrayed as funko pops. I can at least appreciate the animation, which I’ve lightly praised in the past. The show does look pretty good, and the comic action is executed well. But nothing in this made me laugh, really. The show mostly trades in unmotivated silliness and flighty characters behaving foolishly and characters talking at each other but not really having real conversations. It all feels so meaningless.

That said, I guess this one is one of the better episodes. This one has a funny Cheers reference at the end. I’d call this one above average I guess. Okay, that’ll do. I’m done thinking about this show! BYE BYE BIRDMAN BITCH

Oh, yeah, I forgot I sometimes like to present my top ten episodes of each show whenever it ends. This might be revised when I get to the special years from now. Oh yeah, there was a special. Anyway: This is my top ten, in chronomalogical order (not ranked):

S01E02: Very Personal Injury

S01E04: Death By Chocolate

S01E06: The Dabba Don

S02E06: Back to the Present

S02E08: Peanut Puberty

S03E03: X Gets the Crest

S03E04: Bird Girl of Guantanamole

S03E11: Sebben and Sebben Employee Orientation

S03E12: Identity Theft

S04E07: The Death of Harvey

EPHEMERA CORNER:

Harvey Birdman: Attorney at Law: Volume Three DVD (July 24, 2007)

Holy crow, now THAT’S turnaround time, baby! Season three of Harvey Birdman came out the following Tuesday. Imagine how thrilling it would have been to work at a video store and have your shipment from Ingram show up on Thursday. Why, you’d have access to the finale in stunningly crisp DVD quality an entire day before the show debuted on the Friday Night Fix, and three days before it’s television debut. Maybe there’s commentary!

…There’s no commentary. Oh well. There are extras, though. One of the more memorable extras is a montage of various running jokes on the show, presented in chronological order. This show sure loved its running jokes. Somebody had to.

MAIL BAG

is it too late to make a better call saul joke about saul of the mole men? you know, better call saul? it's bob!! bob is saul!!

It is too late and I’m pissed off about it! Knock it off!

#adult swim #harvey birdman attorney at law #adultswim2021

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aqueeracademic · 1 year ago

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morse being queer (and other commentary) pt 7:

season 2, episode 3, “Sway”:

- i know that morse is looking up to examine the cork board but i’m like 98% sure he’s looking up to examine jakes

- omg this episode is so fruity!

- i actually have no idea i’m just manifesting it

- you ever see a man in a tv show and immediately know he’s a douche even tho nothing has happened yet? that just happened!

- “housewife willingly opened door to killer!” how about you rephrase that so it doesn’t seem like it’s her fault?

- i already don’t think sex is real, so when people fuck in cars i am EXTRA skeptical

- needing a cigarette after seeing smth upsetting is relatable

- i do feel as though jakes always believes morse immediately, he just asks questions to make it make sense to himself

- like he doesn’t fully understand it but he would never say morse is wrong

- because he’s in love.

- i’m pretty sure the professor is a homosexual and that’s why he and his wife live apart and why he admits he doesn’t understand women BUT i also think almost every fictional character to ever exist is gay so whatever

- when men refer to women as “birds” i want to die

- how people with disabilities are treated in this show makes me violent to be QUITE frank

- morse immediately locking in on the case when he’s asked about being in a relationship is so real

- the question i must ask you is this (listen very carefully):

- IS morse watching the COUPLE or is he watching the MAN?

- ^this isn’t delusional because NOW LISTEN

- when the gay employee walks past and the other guys follow and say that homophobic shit

- morse reacts ALMOST like they’re talking to him

- he turns around immediately, IMMEDIATELY stops looking at the man he was looking at (who, after sitting down with his girl, is the only person in view, insinuating that morse was indeed only looking at the man), and looks offended as if they had spoken to him

- which, of course, they haven’t

- and if morse automatically assumes that they were talking to him, does that suggest that people have assumed he was queer in the past and bullied him for it?

- i just want to know why shaun evans chose to have morse react that way

- have i mentioned i’m obsessed with monica? because i’m obsessed

- i would also faint if i saw thursday irl tbh she’s not dramatic at all

- morse is down BAD for the owner of burridge’s and i cannot blame him

- jakes is SO FINE 🧎‍♀️🧎‍♀️🧎‍♀️

- “who knows with women haters?”

- thursday is a feminist and an ally!

- italian woman + gay man = perfect pairing is all i’m learning this episode

- casual ableism is SO UGLY

- “you shouldn’t tease people” “you’re one to talk” NEWS FLASH BUCKO ur a fucking misogynist

- just because a woman is attractive does NOT mean she’s asking you to sleep with her ‼️‼️‼️

- morse going on a heterosexual date and then glaring at heterosexuals the whole time is killing me

- “should be strangled at birth” sir how r u still alive

- why on earth did thursday ring the bell and then walk that far away

- morse has UNLIMITED rizz

- it being revealed that this italian lady is not the italian lady thursday was in love w is the best plot twist of the century methinks

- it’s not even really a plot twist

- it’s just a relief to know he’s not gonna cheat on his wife rn

- it’s just this:

- LISTEN TO ME!!!!!!!!!!!

- it’s the way that bright asks thursday how people can value passion over someone who is consistent and dependable and then thursday having to face that difference through the whole episode

- he had passion with the italian woman and is trying to find it again with miss armstrong

- but it doesn’t work because he has his wife

- and she’s DEPENDABLE

- and it’s shown when she gives him his sandwiches and tells him to come home safe and it’s IMPORTANT for him to have someone who is so consistent

- the gay man at burridges is my favorite character in the entire 9 seasons of this show and it’s not even close

- the way morse rolls his eyes when jakes says panty hose are more popular

- “as if you’d know” 🙄🙄🙄

- this episode actually makes the culprit as obvious as humanely possible at the 45:15 mark and it’s the only episode in the whole show where i knew who it was the entire time

- i’m fairly convinced that jakes being rude to morse is just him trying to make jokes and being bad at it

- “who are you going to believe?” and the answer being the super gay 12 year old detective is so real of the burridge’s owner tbh

- i’m lowkey confused because ms. armstrong told thursday “i’m not her” and “she died” but then in their next scene together they act like they WERE in a relationship so maybe i lack media literacy but idk wtf is going awn

- this gay man’s fashion taste is fucking elite

- the all teal look?????? the matching goddam eyeshadow???????

- werk.

- “proper pals we was. but i got careless. lost him somewhere. you’re young. you think love’s like buses. there will be another one along in a minute. that was ‘48… it’s funny. it’s never the one you never met, it’s the one you can’t forget.”

- i’ll vomit.

- IM SO CONFUSED ABOUT THURSDAYS RELATIONSHIP WITH MS ARMSTRONG BC SHES TALKING LIKE THEY WERE AN ITEM EVEN THO SHE SAID THE WOMEN HE WAS W IS DEAD ‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️

- norman did NOT deserve that shit i’m devastated

- why don’t people ever just listen to morse the first time around

- as if he has ever been wrong 🙄 (he is wrong almost every single time he speaks)

- so this girl insinuated that Blenheim Veil is for people “who aren’t quite right” so i’m rly confused as to why jakes would be out there

- the burridge’s owner is so obviously flirting with morse and morse is not reacting at all i hate him

- morse absolutely devouring everything that man had to say about being a pilot

- morse loves PEOPLE he just hates individuals and he’s right

- JAKES UNDERCOVER WIG IS SENDING ME TO THE MOON PLEASEEEEEE

- jakes staring morse down when he’s telling thursday what Pugh said is so legitimate

- “didnt you go to sunday school?” “you don’t want to know where i went.” AND WHEN I LOSE MY MIND? AND WHEN THAT IS MY FINAL STRAW??? WHAT THEN?

- like i fucking said before:

- morse interprets jakes’ jokes as jakes being rude and interprets jakes’ defensiveness as a joke and that is why they don’t understand each other and that is why they love each other and don’t know how to show it. in this essay i will-

- morse’s rizz is so crazy 😧

- ^ i would like to apologize for using the word rizz unironically but it’s 3am

- one more time for the people in the back: i do not understand thursday’s relationship with the italian women and i don’t think i ever will

- “i’m the law and you’re nicked!” strange, i will marry you

- morse all sleepy and bundled up?? i’ll scream

- jakes’ goddam cheekbones are something i’ll never recover from

- morse being happy for and proud of strange for being successful is so silly and adorable

- morse clearly also doesn’t understand what thursdays relationship with ms. armstrong is and i can respect that

- what kind of money do the thursdays have where they can rent this venue for this celebration

- also stfu fred and winnie are my parents

- i’ve seen this episode 2 or 3 times now and i only just now realized why the chalk was important

- like they explain it but my brain is so small idk how i couldn’t comprehend it at first

- but also my brain is huge because i knew from the 45 minute mark who the killer was so everyone stfu

- thursday and morse both holding the exact same disgusted expression while the guy confesses is why i love them

- the ending of this episode is so crazy to me

- and sort of feels unnecessary????

- maybe that’s just me

- like he’s celebrating his anniversary and clearly happy and content and i don’t feel like she needed to die to solidify that

- it just opens the wound back up for him tbh

- doesn’t feel fair

- gonna lose my mind over how beautiful oxford is

- morse burning the letter so no one will ever know except for him and thursday is-

- 8/10 slightly more gay this time and it had my fav character

#solid episode #jakes #owns me #and he’ll never not own me #endeavour #endeavour itv #endeavour morse #morse #itv endeavour

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bustyasianbeautiespod · 2 years ago

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Episode 55 Transcript: This Episode is Cohosted by Birds

[Context for the title: Throughout the episode, there is a lot of background noise from birds that could not be edited out.]

[intro guitar music]

G: Hello! My name is Grey.

C: And my name is Crystal.

G: And this is Busty Asian Beauties, the Supernatural commentary podcast where I, someone who has seen this show several times-

C: And I, someone who only knows about the show through social media, discuss every single episode of Supernatural from start to finish. Also, we are both Asian.

G: Both Asian! For today's episode, we will be discussing Season 3, Episode 11: "Mystery Spot," written by Jeremy Carver and Emily McLaughlin, directed by Kim Manners.

C: Who is Emily McLaughlin?

G: Let us check.

C: This is the only one that Emily McLaughlin has written, but she was an assistant for a lot of people.

G: Maybe, you know. [laughing] I was gonna say "She's a keeper, but they just can't keep her" [both laughing] because I was- [both laughing]

C: I'm gonna ignore that.

G: Jokes that are completely incomprehensible to anyone but us.

C: Anyone who listens to NCT, which is not me, could also understand that.

G: Yeah. I would say, maybe we should attribute the good parts of this episode to her. Just maybe!

C: Yeah.

G: Yeah.

C: Sure, let's do that.

G: I mean, when has Jeremy Carver ever proven to be a writer that we like? His- oh, no! "Very Supernatural Christmas" was his.

C: Yeah.

G: But "Sin City" was also his, so...

C: Right.

G: Okay, actually, let's look at what his list of episodes are.

C: Yeah, I'm looking right now. Huh. Okay, there's- the ones that I recognize are "In the Beginning," "Death-"

G: Oh, he wrote "Free to be You and Me"!

C: Aww. Yeah, okay, I recognize some of these as good episodes. Like, I feel that I know the general plot of "The Rapture," and I feel like that is pretty good.

G: Yeah, "Free to be You and Me," literally, Dean and Cas go on a date while Sam fights for his fucking life. [C laughs] Love content like that.

C: Yeah. I think "In the Beginning" is probably pretty good- or, okay, by "It's probably pretty good," [laughing] it means I've seen young Mary's face-

G: So real.

C: - and decided it must be a wonderful episode.

G: That is so true. "Sacrifice." Pretty slay.

C: But I guess he is responsible for Cas's transphobia.

G: Oh, yeah! There's also like-

C: Yeah, okay, so he wrote- the thing is, he wrote "Changing Channels," which I know is also a Gabriel episode-

G: Yep.

C: - and is also funny, so I feel like he probably is a good humor writer. So maybe we can attribute some of the good things in this episode to him. Sadly.

G: Yeah. Sadly! Yeah.

C: Sadly.

G: I mean, he was also a showrunner. [laughs]

C: He did make that father of two shave his chest, so like- that's pretty important.

G: Yeah. It's important. I thought he wrote 9.03- or, no, 9.06. "Heaven Can't Wait." But no, that's the other guy. Robert Berens.

C: Oh, yeah. That's a guy.

G: Yeah. [laughs] Lots- I mean, I feel like everyone has an opinion about Robert Berens. But we'll have our opinions when we get to his first episode.

C: In 5 million years, or whatever.

G: Yeah. [laughs] I mean, in 5 million years, I feel like we would have released this episode [laughing] because of how long it takes us to release episodes nowadays.

C: Oh, right. Happy 2023, or honestly, maybe happy 2024 at this point, people. [laughs]

G: Honestly. Happy Year of the... Bunny? Is it the year of the rabbit?

C: God, I don't remember the like, order of the animals.

G: Yeah, I think it's Year of the Rabbit, and I love that I said "Year of the Bunny." Like, that is so cute.

C: Yeah. It literally is the Year of the Bunny. So real.

G: Yeah. [laughs] So I mean, let's get into this episode.

C: Sure!

G: What did you know about it before we watched- before, like, you watched it?

C: A decent amount. I knew it was a time loop episode, that it would open with "Heat of the Moment" by Asia [laughs], which is such a funny band name. And that Dean was gonna to die over and over again, and that it would be the funniest, greatest thing in the world to see. [G laughs] And that one of the deaths involves like, a dog, which I thought was really funny. And then I knew that Gabriel would be responsible, and that he would be doing it to try to get Sam to realize that he can't save Dean. And also that- I thought it was going to be like, I think it was like a month after or something, but it turned out to be 6 months after, when Sam kills Bobby, but Bobby is actually Gabriel. So yeah, those are the things I knew.

G: Yeah. I mean, for me, I, within the last 2 years, watched this episode because I made an AMV to it-

C: Yes.

G: Which I am insanely proud of. I think it's the funniest thing to ever come out of my soul and spirit. It's really good.

C: Yes. I forgot, which 1D song is it?

G: I think it's like, "Live While We're Young." [laughs]

C: Yes.

G: And it's like, a Dean death compilation/Sabriel or Saybriel- however you pronounce it- AMV. Yeah. It's iconic, and I- maybe I should reblog it in BABPod.

C: Yeah! You should.

G: Yeah. In our BABPod Tumblr account. Because that's in my old account that I don't use anymore. [laughs] So like, it's okay. So real.

G: Let's start with the actual episode.

C: Okay. So there is a quick little "Road So Far," where in one of the scenes, it shows them killing Gabriel/the Trickster. And that's the only part that he comes up in the "Road So Far," which I think is good because so many "Road So Far"s just give you like massive spoilers for the episode, so I'm glad they didn't do a whole Gabriel re-run. Yeah, it's just stuff. And then we have the teaser. We have the iconic shot of, you know, Sam's in bed, his eyes are closed, "Heat of the Moment" by Asia starts coming on the radio, and his eyes open. We will see this shot a lot. And, you know, it's a regular old day. Dean's having a good time. Sam says that if he hears this song ever again, he's gonna kill himself. [laughs]

G: Well, first of all, he says, "Dude. Asia?"

C: [laughing] Oh my god, yes, he-

G: "Dude. Asia?" [both laughing]

C: And I paused and laughed for like 5 minutes.

G: So real.

C: Literally. "Dude, Asia? Eww!"

G: I mean, why did they name themselves Asia?

C: I don't know.

G: There's a band named like, Boston, right?

C: Yeah, that feels different, though. Like I'm assuming they're from Boston, are they not?

G: Do you think the Asia guys are Asian? [laughs]

C: No, I looked them up. They- I mean, they could be, but they do not look like it.

G: Oh, it's English rock.

C: Yep. They're an English rock group. They're like, 4 guys. They look sort of like heterosexual Queen or something? [G laughs]

G: So real.

C: Yeah, huh. I don't see anything about why they named their band Asia.

G: Wow. Apparently "Heat of the Moment" is like their first single or something.

C: Mm.

G: Debut album, yeah. Good for them.

C: Good for them.

G: [singing] "Heat of the moment"- it's a good song.

C: Yeah.

G: I mean, it's a good song for what Supernatural uses it as.

C: Yeah. Yeah.

Right, he says, "Dude, Asia?" And then he says if he ever hears the song again, he'll kill himself. He's such a Redditor. God bless.

G: God bless.

C: Yeah, so you know, Dean's in the bathroom. He gargles a lot. All these are things that will happen again because of the time loop.

G: Yeah.

C: And they head out to breakfast, but Dean pulls like, a black bra out of a bag.

G: Okay, okay, pause for a minute. I am concerned by your wording of "he gargles a lot." Is this not normal? [both laugh]

C: I think I just don't really gargle in general.

G: You're so for real.

C: Maybe he's gargling a completely normal amount, and I'm just really bad at my dental care.

G: I think he's trying to piss off Sam, but I think this is like, you know, like when dads gargle?

C: Yes.

G: This is how dads gargle.

C: Okay, is this a dad thing? Are dad's fucking obsessed with mouthwash? My dad is obsessed with mouthwash.

G: I think so.

C: He has like a bottle in the kitchen, [G laughs] so that as soon as he's done eating, he can fucking gargle it at the kitchen sink. It's not even in his bathroom.

G: That's so for real of him. I mean, my dad is also obsessed with gargling. [C laughs] So- And I learned how to gargle, like the back throat gargle, from him. [C laughs] So like, that's a slay.

C: Yeah. So he has this black bra, right? So like, okay, the assumption is that one of his hookups left it behind. Who the fuck gets dressed and forgets their bra? Those things are like $30 at least. Yeah, and Dean makes a joke that's like, "Haha! Is this yours, Sam?" Okay.

G: It's his. That's my hot take. It's Dean's.

C: It's Dean's. It literally is Dean's. Yeah, no, he saw it, and he was like, "Shit, I need to pass this off-" It's Dean's. And they head out to a diner and, like, someone named Mr. Pickett is leaving, and the cashier tells him to drive safely. And then a waitress is talking to some guy named Cal, who looks kind of disheveled, and says that he can't stay unless he order something. And they sit down, and Dean sees that today's special is "Tuesday: Pig in a Poke."

G: Mm-hm.

C: Yeah, which is- Pig in a Poke Tuesday is a semi-reoccurring weekly Supernatural Tumblr thing, right? Like it's no Fingers in My Mouth Friday or anything, but it's still something

G: Yeah. I don't know. I think the only thing this episode, gifset or whatever that I see is, you know, "Yesterday was Tuesday, but today was Tuesday too!" like every Tuesday. So real.

C: That's true. Okay, you know how like, the big, famous version of that post, like- someone who reblogged it has "wincest" in their URL. So whenever I'm checking if a Supernatural blog is safe, I like, search the word "Wincest," and usually, it's safe, but that one post shows up, and I'm like, "Okay." Sad.

G: I mean, I don't follow people anymore. Like, you're either in it, baby, or you're never gonna be in. "It" being my Tumblr following. But there was a time where I really had to like, not even just Wincest, right? [laughs] Because that's the automatic thing you look up to see if you should follow someone. Like, do we like, fundamentally disagree on this one thing. But also, it's like, "Do they like Cas enough?" [both laugh] Like, I literally would look up "Castiel," and if there's like, 5 posts, I'm like, "They don't love Castiel enough. They don't deserve my attention." Or like, I'll look up like Crowley, and if they like Crowley, I wouldn't follow. [laughing] I'm literally so horrible.

C: Oh, god. Yeah, I like when you're at that phase in a fandom where you have so many specific opinions that you have to do like, 10 different checks before you follow someone.

G: Exactly. It's very rewarding.

C: It's really good

G: When you find someone who fits all your boxes and will never disappoint you.

C: Yeah, I think there was a time when I would like, look up "Uncle Sam" and not follow if they call Sam Jack's uncle.

G: I know exactly what you mean. I know exactly what you mean. And I don't think I did this, but I think I did like, some variation of Jack something. I forgot what, but like, I also had very strong opinions about how people talked about Jack, which we will discover in a couple of years.

C: So many years later, yes.

So yeah, Dean orders the special with a side of bacon and coffee. Sam orders a coffee and some pancakes. And they mentioned briefly that they should be hunting down Bela because she has the Colt, but they're currently working on a case about a missing professor named Dexter Hasselback, and the last place that he visited was the Mystery Spot. And they look at a flyer for this tourist attraction, and the back of it is just what goes through my brain every time I have to do math or physics, [G laughs] which is just equations with questions.

G: It's like, "E=mc^2," question mark question mark question mark.

C: E=mc squared? A=pi*r squared? F=whatever the fuck?

G: So real. [both] Yeah.

C: And the tagline of this place is "Where the laws of physics have no meaning." And the waitress, Doris, comes over, and she has some hot sauce on the tray that falls and smashes on the floor. So they go outside. They pass a barking dog. Dean expresses skepticism about this Mystery Spot. They bump into this woman carrying a stack of paper, and as she walks away, Dean like, turns fully around to look at her because I guess she's pretty.

G: Yeah! You guess she's pretty? That's the most passive aggressive thing-

C: I mean, she probably is.

G: We don't see her face that clearly.

C: I don't see her face, yeah.

G: She is the only woman in this episode.

C: Huh. No, but what about Doris? The waitress.

G: Oh, yeah! Yeah, that's true. So I was gonna say "Maybe that warrants a misogyny point," but since there were two women in this episode-

C: Yeah. Two whole women.

G: Two whole women.

C: Yeah.

G: Wait, at this point, have we passed the Bechdel Test ever in Supernatural?

C: Have two... I don't think two women have ever talked to each other in Supernatural.

G: I mean like, what's their name? Jo and Ellen.

C: Oh.

G: Maybe, right.

C: Well, I think when they talked, I feel like Jo's dad usually came up, or other times, Sam and Dean putting her in danger came up.

G: No, but there was this scene where it's like, "I want to hunt, and here's my case." But like, Sam and Dean interrupt, so I don't know if that's-

C: Yeah. I don't know

G: I can't believe, like- this is like- [laughs] When yo- the very, very, very, very bottom of the barrel of like, feminist analysis of media, you know what I mean?

C: Yeah, it's not like, particularly applicable to like, most media analysis, but it's still fun to be like, "They didn't even pass the Bechdel test."

G: Yeah.

C: And yet, sapphicnatural people continue working their asses off-

G: Literally.

C: - and I'm so proud of all of them.

G: Yeah. Exactly. Annamary shippers, on another level. That's all I'll say. Like, the shit I read for Annamary? Insane. Good for them.

C: So they passed by two people like, moving some giant cabinet or something, and one of them is like, "I told you it wouldn't fit," and the other one's like, "What do you want? A Pulitzer?" Which is, I don't understand.

G: A Pulitzer is like, for literature, right? Or like, media?

C: Yeah. So I just don't see how this is relevant to the moving of this cabinet thing. But okay, whatever.

G: The only Pulitzer Prize that I know is like, DAMN. by Kendrick Lamar. Good for him.

C: Oh, yeah. Good for him. I'm trying to remember if I- I feel like I remember books, but I also don't. So I don't.

So they go- So Sam and Dean decide that they're gonna sneak into the Mystery Spot after hours to see what's up. And they do that, and it's just- there's like this hallway with like this black spiral painted onto it that looks like a whole optical version thing, and most of the inside is just like, tables glued to the walls and shit. And then the owner shows up with a gun and is like, "What the fuck are you doing here? Are you stealing from me?" And he is very high-strung and he's yelling a lot. And Dean moves to put the gun down, and the owner shoots him, and he dies.

G: He dies.

C: Hahahaha.

G: There's like, super sad music, and like, I love the progression of like, the first few deaths have super sad music, and then once you come to the goofier deaths, it's like funky music now. And I think that's super fun.

C: Yeah, it's like [singing] "womp womp womp-"

G: Yeah, exactly. I think it's super fun. And also, something that I find super fun as someone who has watched this episode quite recently but not recently enough is that I know what the deaths are gonna be, but I don't know in what order, I don't know when it's gonna come up. I sincerely thought the very first death was Dean getting hit by the car, so like, when he didn't get hit by the car, I was like, "Ooh. I am taken in for one hell of a ride, baby!" Like, I'm so excited. And that's super fun. Guessing which one is gonna be the next death is also super fun.

C: Yeah, that is fun.

And so he's dead. It's great. I love it. It's so good.

Yeah, Sam's so sad. He's like, crying. He's going, "Oh, no, not like this. No, Dean!" Hahahahaha. And then it's the splash screen.

G: Yeah. Splash screen thirty minutes into our discussion. [both laugh]

C: Great. Love it.

G: Love that! Love that.

G: Okay, so we go back to Sam waking up. And he's very confused about everything because it's like, the same. And instead of doing the things that he did yesterday, he just spends pretty much the whole time like, staring at Dean like "What is happening?"

C: Yeah, and okay, like, I watched this with my ex-fiancee, and she brought up that it's fucking stupid that at no point did Sam consider that this might be a psychic dream, especially because things start out exactly the same that day.

G: They do say, like, later that "Isn't this one of your psychic dreams?" And he just straight up says, "No." And I love that. They acknowledge it, and then they just say, "No, it's not" without any explanation whatsoever. I mean, maybe his head doesn't hurt. Like maybe he's not going, "Ouchie! Oww!" and that's why it's not a psychic dream.

C: Yeah, I mean maybe it's just different now that Azazel's dead. Maybe Azazel's sending him dreams from the Empty so he doesn't have the power to make his head hurt anymore. We don't know that. He doesn't know that.

G: Yeah. I mean, I don't know. But they do acknowledge it, just not well, so. Anyway. Yeah. And as Dean gargles, he asks, like, "Are you okay?" And Sam just goes, "I had a weird dream." And then Dean goes, "Clowns or midgets?"

C: I hate everything, and I hope everyone dies.

G: At first, I was like, "Wait, Sam is also afraid of midgets?" [laughs] Because I was like, "He's afraid of clowns." And I thought Dean was talking about something he was afraid of. Which I was- like, I was shocked by this, and then I thought back to the episode with the little people. What was that one called?

C: "Everybody Loves a Clown."

G: Oh yeah, the one we hated so so so much?

C: Yeah.

G: And I was like, "No." And then I realized what the joke was about, and I was like, "I think that's even more horrible."

C: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I hope Dean dies forever and ever, and he will! [G laughs] Thank you.

G: Yeah, but he goes to heaven. RIP.

C: Ugh.

G: He goes to like, fake heaven with like, terrifying ideals of what it means to be in paradise, so it's fine.

C: Yeah. Literally drove for 40 years.

G: [laughs] And people were like [mocking voice], "He didn't drive for 40 years! Like, he just drove for a bit!"

C: [mocking voice] "Time works differently!"

G: [still mocking] "And then Sam showed up!" Yeah. Like, it's okay. Take the fucking L, bro.

C: Yeah.

G: Like, he drove for 40 years.

C: [overlapping] He literally did drive for 40 years. [G laughs]

G: I mean, you can't defend the finale and also complain about it. Like, choose one lane and stick to it. Just be a hater. It's fine.

C: Yeah.

G: Yeah. So they enter the diner, and it's the same, like "Tuesday, pig in a poke," blah blah blah. Wait. What does pig in a poke mean? Is it like hot dogs on a stick?

C: It's like a hot dog, like- I think it's like, in some kind of a bread thing. I'm not actually sure.

G: It's like a corndog situation?

C: Sorry, I just looked up "pig in a poke" on images, and it's literally just pigs in bags, and now I'm really confused. [G laughs]

G: Well. Anyway, Dean, orders his special order. And Sam is like, "I won't have anything.": And Dean continues on, like, "We gotta look for Bela." And Sam is like, "Huh?" And then Sam starts saying like, "Doesn't it feel like this has happened before?" And Dean goes, "Like deja vu." And Sam's like, "No, no, no, like it really did happen before," and [laughs] Dean is like, "Like deja vu." And like, they just keep on going like this, and Sam just literally goes like, "Forget about fucking deja vu, man!" And Dean is like, "How is that not deja vu?" And Sam just like, is about to kill him, which he should. There is a scene in the show, in the episode, where-

C: [laughing] He does!

G: He does kill Dean! [both laughing]

C: Soo good.

G: I was like, "This is such a traumatic experience for him, but I'm having so much."

C: Yeah, I mean, this sucks for Sam. But has he considered that this has brought joy to millions of people around the world, so he should get over it? [G laughs]

G: Yeah, and he should have done it intentionally at least once. I feel like that will be like the kind of crazy shift that you do when you're on a time loop, right?

C: Yeah, right. And I feel like my ex-fiancee mentioned that we could get like a really good character moment where, like, Sam knows that it's going to be reset, so he like, yells at Dean and says a bunch of horrible things that he actually thinks about Dean-

G: Yeah.

C: - and then Dean doesn't remember the next day.

G: Yeah, but it's not that kind of episode, according to Jeremy Carver and Emily McLaughlin.

C: Yeah.

G: RIP. Yeah. Sam catches the hot sauce bottle before it falls, and it's like, "Ooh, good for him. He's so hot." [laughs]

C: His hair looks pretty good this episode.

G: Yeah. I mean, he looks iconic this episode. There's a scene where he like, rips off his shirt, and I wasn't appalled, so, good for him. [laughs] That's so mean! That's such a mean thing to say. I'm so sorry. [C laughs]

But yeah, they go out, and it's the dog, and it's the blonde girl. And Dean is like, "You know, this is crazy for us. 'Dingo ate my baby' crazy. Are you sure it's not psychic?"

C: Yeah. A dingo did eat that woman's baby, though?

G: Wait, what is this in reference to?

C: I think it was like a news story or something. Like in Australia, a dingo, which is like a wild dog thing, ran off with a woman's baby and ate it or something.

G: No, that's so horrible.

C: But people thought it was a really like, memeable sentence or something, I think.

G: Naur...

C: Let me check. I may be talking out of my ass.

G: [laughs] I feel so bad because I just said "naur," and like, you're talking about an Australian story so like, maybe to people, it sounds intention, but it wasn't. I'm so sorry.

C: Yeah, okay. So yeah, it was- Okay, yeah. So this person's actual baby- yeah. Okay, so she claimed that her 9-week-old daughter was taken from like, her tent on a camping trip by a dingo, and people were like, "That's not true." And they tried to convict her of murdering her child, but eventually the case was dismissed or something. They were like, "Yeah, you did not do it. It like, literally was a dingo who took your baby-"

G: Ate your baby? Oh my god.

C: "- and attacked it." Yeah. That must be such a fucking awful experience to go through.

G: Why were they on a camping trip?

C: What? Why did they go on a camping trip?

G: [laughing] This is like the type of shit lawyers would be asking in the courtroom. [deepens voice] "Why did you go on a camping trip with a 9-week-old baby?" That's my lawyer voice. [laughs] It's half an octave lower. Yeah.

So Sam starts saying, like, "No no no, this is way too vivid to be a premonition. And we were at the Mystery Spot, and then-" and then he cuts himself off, and he's all angsty, like he doesn't want to tell Dean that Dean dies. And Dean is like, "What happens?" and he's like [dramatically], "I woke up." [laughs] It's so dramatic! Like, just tell him. And I know he tells him the next day. But like, at this moment, I was like, "You're such a- Like, just tell him."

C: I mean, okay, I guess I get how angsty he is because like this is directly following- Like, the last episode, it ended with Dean telling Sam like, "I just realized that I actually really don't want to die. Can you please help save me?" Right? So like this is a bad- this is a really bad emotional follow-up in Sam's heart.

G: Yeah, I suppose so. That makes sense.

C: Yeah. And also, I think this is- I think the writer's strike happens a little bit after this episode, but I think that originally, "Mystery Spot" was considered as like, the season finale or even this entire show finale in case it got cancelled, which I think is wild.

G: Oh! What do you mean by this? Like at the end of the season, this is the show? Or this is like, the end of it, like, this episode.

C: It's like, the writer's strike happened, and they had a bunch of scripts written, so they had to decide like, how to order it and how to like finish out the season-

G: Oh, okay, got it, got it.

C: So this was considered as a possible-

G: As one of those. Yeah, that's fascinating. Yeah.

So Dean is like, "Okay, let's go to the Mystery Spot right now, where it's crowded." He calls Sam a freak. Love that.

C: So many times.

G: Yeah. And Dean continues walking-

C: Yeah!!!

G: He gets hit by a car, baby!

C: He gets hit by a caaar!!

G: He looks so bad in this scene. Like, I get that he's on the floor dead [C laughing], but he looks so goofy. And it's so funny because it genuinely looks, it does look so goofy, but it's like, you know. Like, it's an emotional scene. Sam is sad! But it does look goofy.

C: It's soo funny. We rewatched it two times.

G: [laughs] You're horrible.

C: We screamed and cheered so loud each time. It was so funny each time.

G: Dean dying is my sports.

C: Yeah.

G: So yeah. I mean, Sam wakes up again in the motel.

C: Yeah, he sure does. And you know, Sam's having a day. When they go to the diner, Sam orders for Dean, and [sighs] Dean says, "Sammy, I get all tingly when you take control like that."

G: Horrible line. I hate it.

C: At this point, are they knowing- do they know who they're catering to? How big is their fanbase at this point?

G: Exactly, that's the deal. I feel like pretty big, and most of them are like that.

C: I feel like they know at this point who they're catering to, and they're like, "Well. Let's throw them a bone."

G: When did the conventions start?

C: Huh.

G: What was the very first one?

C: There's one called like "Jus in Bello convention," right?

G: Yeah, JIBCon. That one is in like, Italy or something.

C: Yeah.

G: And it's like, famous for being the only one with a Jensen-Misha panel [laughing], which I think is so funny. They literally will not let those two men connect.

C: Interesting.

G: It's known as the one con where that happens.

C: Okay, so they did come to Comic-Con in 2007, so yeah, they'd had one of them.

G: This is way before that. This was released 2008. I mean this is way after that.

C: Yeah, yeah. But I guess they wrote this before 2008.

G: Yeah, perhaps.

C: They had like, small cons before that. Are these real? No, wait. This list includes fan conventions. So let me see.

G: Just the ones where Jared Padalecki was in.

C: 2006, okay, the Paley Television Festival, they went there. [G laughs] So that's a con that they went to officially. Aww, Jared Padalecki, he still has early Sam hair in these pictures, and it makes me forget that he's Jared Padalecki! [laughs] Okay. So yeah, they had cons.

G: The Supernatural convention circuit is actually ball-to-the-wall fucking insane if you think about.

C: Oh, definitely.

G: This is the only show that I know that does this on the reg. Like, why is it so intense? And you have people there who show up, and they were like in two episodes.

C: Yeah. It's wild.

G: What goes on?

C: I don't know.

G: Is it like literally just milking money?

C: Oh, definitely.

G: Yeah. I mean, wasn't there like one article where- or maybe like-

C: Yeah, this was an article about how someone-

G: - about how it was just like a-

C: - going to a con.

G: And he was so fucking depressed about it?

C: Yeah, he was like, "Everything felt so dull and sad, and like, the Pamela actress who was in like, two episodes, was there, and everyone was cheering and screaming for her, and all the jokes sucked, and there was no spirit there" or whatever. Yeah, it was a decent article. We have both read it.

I want to know more about like, the marketing directors of Supernatural. 'Cause, like, I feel like the cons, the #SupernaturalFamily hashtag. Like, they put a lot of work into like engineering parasocial relationships between like, the cast and the fanbase. Like, way more than any other show I've seen. And that is fascinating to me. I hope that there's a JSTOR article I can look at about this after the recording.

G: I mean, like, you know how like the #SPNFamily phenomena is very- like, you know, "Always keep fighting," blah blah, blah. And I appreciate the, you know, like the focus on, like, you know, like, building each other up mental health-wise, blah blah blah. Like, I'm not gonna be like, "Oh, that's so funny!" you know? But like, it is like a money-making machine.

C: Yeah.

G: And sometimes I do feel like, "isn't this irresponsible to put this kind of like, I mean, messaging on like something so built on being something commercial?" But you know, I am in fact not a sociologist or whoever studies this.

C: Yeah.

G: I'm just a little guy!

C: Yeah, I should ask the sociologists I know and tell them to write something.

G: I literally should.

C: Remember the J2 fallout? And I would be going on Twitter to see J2's tweets because I thought they were hilarious, and like, you'd see the replies, and these were like, people genuinely heartbroken, being like, "I can't believe this. I always thought you two were like brothers. You were like brothers to me, too," you know, like- wild!

G: Yeah.

C: Absolutely wild! And like, these are like people experiencing, like, genuine pain and hurt over this.

G: Yeah, exactly. When you put that much emphasis on those aspects of your entertainment, it's gonna have repercussions. And I feel like the J2 fallout, like, on our side, it was absolutely hilarious, so funny-

C: The funniest thing ever.

G: Funniest thing to have ever happened, second only to [both laughing] Misha Collins coming out as straight. But like, for those people, it was horrible!

C: Yeah.

G: And that's not their fault. That was something engineered by like, the marketing, through the marketing of this.

C: Yeah. Right. Sorry to all these people. I hope you find something else fulfilling in your lives.

G: Yeah. I mean, also, if you're listening to this, and you would consider yourself one of the people that we are talking about, like, I don't want you to feel bad. That's not the point.

C: There are real people in your lives who you can become invested in who will actually be invested in you back, and I hope that you can find them and spend time with them.

G: Yeah. Also, there's nothing wrong with having like, normal [C laughs] liking of, I think, like, actors and stuff. I can't think of anyone that I feel that way about, but I mean, many people do it, so it must be normal. Like, there should be like some things, I feel, that you put a line in the sand for where it should be for you, and you know, I hope people find that line for themselves.

C: Yeah. Anyway, what the fuck were we talking about in the episode? [G laughs] Oh, the Wincest line.

G: [laughing] Wait! I just want to say, I read this headline once, where it's like, "With his exorbitant ticket prices and his-" like, exorbitant ticket prices and something about like, how he is as an entertainer, "we are owed Harry Styles's identity."

C: Oh my god.

G: Have you read this? Yeah.

C: I have not. What the fuck?

G: And it's like one of those things where sometimes, it crosses my mind, and I literally get jolted out of my psyche, like, what is this? Who are these people saying this? So yeah. I just remember it, and it's like, "Oh, okay, some people really are like this."

C: Jesus Christ.

G: So like, draw a line in the sand, you guys. Draw a line in the sand.

C: Mm. Well.

C: Anyway, so we're in the diner. [both laughing]

G: It's been an hour! It's been 50 minutes of us recording. What is happening??

C: [laughing] I hate this. But I'm having fun. So... [to themself] Wincest line, "control like this-" [G laughs]

G: [laughing] We were on the Wincest line, and that's what started this? I hate it here.

C: So yeah. So Sam explains that he's in a time loop, like Groundhog Day. And Dean says that this is crazy. Sam predicts the line that he's going to say afterwards. And then Doris comes over and Sam catches the hot sauce because he knew it was gonna fall.

G: Ooh.

He says that, like, for the first time. Because yesterday he was like, "Oh, I just catched it." And now he's like, [deep, serious voice] "I knew it was gonna happen, Dean." [C laughs] He literally says it like that, though. He's so agitated.

C: I mean he saw his brother die twice, I get it. [G laughs] And now he won't believe that he's in grave danger. Like, this is the funniest episode ever, but I guess if we put ourselves in Sam's shoes, we understand why he's so emo about the funniest thing in the world.

G: Yeah. That's true. He's sad for a good reason.

C: Right. And I guess for the people who were watching this for the first time who didn't really know what was going on yet, like, do you think they were actually like, super sad when Dean died that first time?

G: No. I mean, it's akin to him dying in "Faith," you know?

C: Fair. Yeah, it happens like, in the teaser. It's not gonna be permanent.

G: Yeah.

C: Yeah. So Sam explains that in this time loop, Dean dies. Oh, and he also says that Dean has to listen to him because "You owe me that much." Nice. Cool. Interesting happenings.

G: I think that's a reference to what he said last time, right? Like, "I want to be alive," and it's like, "No, you owe me this much because you're dying because-" blah blah blah blah blah blah. You know what I mean. Is that what he's saying by "You owe me this much"?

C: I think so. I think it's like, "You like, made a deal, and it's making me miserable, so you should listen to me." Yeah.

G: Mm-hm.

C: Right. And, you know, Dean finally listens, and he's like, "Okay, like, I don't believe you still, but sure, let's do your thing. We'll try to prevent my death. Whatevs."

G: Yeah. They go out, and they- I don't even know. They go to the- they were supposed to go to the Mystery Spot. So they're walking down the street, and Dean almost gets hit by the car, and he's like, "Wait. Did yesterday- did I get hit by the car?" And Sam was like, "Yeah." And he goes, "And?" [C laughs] And Sam's like, "And what?" And Dean goes, "Did it look cool? Like in the movies?"

C: Yess.

G: Yeah. I love that line, actually.

C: It's a good line. I like it.

G: I feel like that is such a- what's the term? It's so quintessentially Dean that of course he'll think that. Like, "Did it look cool? Like in the movies," like, that's how he's gonna crack that kind of joke in that kind of tense situation, and I love it.

And Sam goes, "You fucking peed yourself." [both laugh] And then Dean was like [whiny], "Of course I did! I was hit by a car! Come on!" And then they continue.

And they're in the Mystery Spot now, and they're like, interviewing the guy. And he's like- the guy- is putting on this very like, "ooh, intrigue!" voice, but Sam is having none of it. He's like, "Oh, are there anything strange that's happening here?" And the guy's like, "Strange? Strange happens all the time!" Like, he's very playing the role. Until Sam, like, straight up just gets mad, like, "Just answer the question!" And the owner is like, "Gimme a break," like, "I bought this place like, at an auction like, last March." And he's like, "Just leave me alone, dude. Like, nothing suspicious is going on here and the police scoured the place, and nothing happened." And Sam was like, super mad, and Dean tells him to "Let's just go out. Let's just go out."

C: Yeah, this guy sort of does suck, though, right? Because he says that he used to sell bail bonds.

G: What does that mean? I have no idea what that means.

C: Right, so it's like- you know, like you go to jail, and it's like-

G: Oh, okay, bail.

C: Yeah. "Oh, you have to appear on trial." Yeah, and it's like, you have to pay a certain amount, and you'll get it back- a percentage of it back- if you come to trial on time. So yeah, he was in charge of that, and I think- Right, and he would be charging the defendant some kind of a fee to like, sign off on it.

G: It's so that you're not in jail, right? Yeah.

C: Yeah. Oh, interesting. It says here that the commercial bail bond system exists only in the United States and the Philippines. [G laughing]

G: Twinning!

C: Yeah. [laughs] Twinning. Great. Love it.

G: Twinning! That was such a- like, when you said Philippines, I was like, "OMG, we're included for once. [C laughs] We're so special."

C: Yeah, I'm glad we both have an atrocious thing.

G: 'Cause usually with things like that, it's like, "It's only in the Vatican and the Philippines." But no, it's the United States. Isn't that so wonderful? [both laughing]

C: Yeah.

G: By the way, the Vatican/Philippines thing is divorce. We don't have divorce here.

C: Yeah, no divorce. Jesus Christ.

G: No divorce, baby! So it's just the Vatican and us.

C: So Dean is like, "Okay, well, the solution here is just for us to make it 24 hours without me dying." And they're walking outside on the road they were at earlier, and Sam's like, "Okay, that's a pretty good idea." And Dean says, "Who wants Chinese?" and then is immediately killed. [both laughing] Soooo true!

G: I knoww! I love this.

C: So correct.

G: Literally- [both laughing]

C: Literally, like, "You wanna eat chao mian? Fucking die."

G: Exactly.

C: Right. The movers from earlier, like, they have this rope, and they're trying to get the cabinet through a window, and the rope snaps, and it falls on Dean, and it's hilarious, and we also watched it three times.

G: I love this stuff. I think it's so much fun. It's so funny. It's so funny. And yeah, that's my take on it.

C: Yup.

G: Literally "Who wants Chinese?" And then a piano falls over your head. [C laughing]

C: Agh, it's great. Best thing ever. And, you know. "Heat of the Moment" again.

C: So yeah, Sam wakes up again, you know.

G: Yeah.

C: It's great.

C: You know. Yeah. What follows is sort of just like, a montage of Dean dying a lot.

G: Yeah! Love it!

C: And it's great. So fun. Best thing in the world. Sorry about all the trauma Sam's accumulating right now.

G: Yeah. [laughing] At first, he chokes on a sausage.

C: I knowww. I know. I know.

G: I love that. I love it because he chokes on a sausage, and then he dies by eating tacos, which is like, excellent bisexual representation, I feel like. [C laughing]

C: Noo, for real! Yeah. Right. It's so, so good. Right. Like Dean's like, "I'm gonna change up this whole time loop thing by ordering sausage instead of bacon," and then he immediately dies for sucking dick.

G: Yeah.

C: It's not even a big bite. Like, you see him bite it. It is not a big bite. He's so weak. He could not deep throat.

G: [at the same time] He has a weak throat game.

C: Yeah.

G: He is not the throat GOAT is all I am saying.

C: I literally said that exact sentence to my ex-fiancee. [G laughs] God.

G: He isn't the throat GOAT. Sorry, guys.

C: Yeah. And then- right, Sam prevents Dean from going to the diner the next day, and then Dean, like, slips in the shower and hits his head. And then, right, they get takeout, they get tacos, and Dean says-

G: He goes, "Does this taco-"

C: "-taste funny to you?"

G: [laughing] "Does this taco taste funny to you?" And then it immediately cuts to Sam waking up, which I think is hilarious. I love that he wasn't even like, "Oh, I have food poisoning, let me vomit." Like, it immediately is just like, "Okay, he dies. Okay. Next death."

C: Next death. Yeah. How bad- like, what do you think was in the taco that could kill Dean within 24 hours?

G: I mean, like, if you get food poisoning, there are some food poisonings that's like, within the hour, right?

C: Oh, really? Huh.

G: I mean, yeah.

C: Didn't know that. That sounds bad.

G: I don't know which ones specifically, so I may be wrong. Not a doctor! [both laugh] To much of my parents' disappointment. [both laughing]

C: Yeah.

G: So real. I remember when we started this podcast, and I was like, "I'm gonna become a doctor!" Oh my god. Young Grey was so hopeful.

C: Did you say that? For real?

G: I think I really did say, "I'm gonna become a doctor" in the podcast.

C: God, that's hilarious.

G: I think I said, "I may or may not become a doctor." And then that changed.

C: Yeah. Currently, we've promised the listeners that you're gonna be a lawyer, right?

G: I know. Yeah.

C: Yeah. Let's see how that one goes.

And then in the next scene, Dean gets electrocuted by like, plugging in his razor to the wall.

G: Yeah, and it's a funny scene, too. The electrocution is pretty funny.

C: It is pretty funny. The like, special effects team did a really good job this episode at like, making things very comedic.

G: Yeah! So real.

C: [laughing] And then we have a scene where [G laughs] Sam has gone a little off the rails. They have duct-taped and tied up the owner of the Mystery Spot, and Sam's like, hacking the walls open with an axe. And then Dean's telling Sam to calm down, and then, like, he goes to like, argue with Sam, and the argument is offscreen, but like, you can hear like, "Hey, stop swinging that axe around. Like, give it to me." "No, give it to me!" And then, like, blood sprays on the tied-up guy's face. [laughs]

G: Yes!

C: Sam literally killed Dean. He murdered that man.

G: He literally did kill Dean. And I love that this is a comedic moment.

C: He manslaughtered that man, but it's still so funny.

G: Manslaughtered or man's laughter? You choose. [C laughing]

I literally laughed as a man, so it was man's laughter.

C: It was man's laughter.

G: It was so funny. Like, I did not remember that this scene happened, and when it happened, I was so shocked. Like, they literally made Sam kill Dean! [C laughs] I was so shocked.

C: And they don't do anything with that!

G: They- Literally, they were like, "We're not gonna focus on this. We're not going to think about it. It just happened, okay? It's okay."

C: Yeah. God bless.

G: It's literally not okay, though. But like- [laughs] God.

C: Yeah, like Sam remembers all of this.

G: Yeah!

C: Yeah, like, does that not bother him sometimes? Remember when demon!Dean chased Sam around with an axe in the bunker?

G: Yeah, exactly! That's what I was thinking. It's like that, yeah.

C: Right. Was Sam like, "Well."

G: That was his revenge.

C: Yeah. [laughs]

Oh, also- right, no, okay. My ex-fiancee made a joke, and I promised her that I'd put it in, even though she said it wasn't funny, and it was "Dean will never get a reservation at Dorcia now!" So yeah.

G: I have no idea what that means. What's Dorcia?

C: Oh, it's an American Psycho- or is it pronounced door-sha? It's an American Psycho reference because the shot with the axe and the spraying on the face is very similar.

G: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

C: Anyway.

G: So we go to this diner scene, and Sam is genuinely so fucking upset. He's so sad. And he, you know, completely straight-faced. The cashier is like, hands like, Mr. Pickett the key or something-

C: Yeah, it's his car-

G: And Sam swipes it off the guy. And then, you know, it's- there's a man there, and he has like, pancakes and maple syrup. And okay, this guy, the guy who's like, ordering pancakes and maple syrup, he becomes visible this scene. Like, he was- he was in the other scenes, but not as visibly as he is here, and like, for obvious reasons, as we go later in the episode. But I do wish that like- there's like one scene where he passes by someone or something by the camera, and it's very clear. And I wish that they had that at least at the very beginning so there's a sense of like, you know, like, "Ooh, it's that guy." Instead of like, just hammering it in here at the end. Yeah. That's my only complaint. It's okay.

C: Yeah.

G: So Dean orders his food, and Sam is like- and Doris is like, "What do you want, young man?" at Sam. And Sam is like, "You know what I want? What I'd like for you is to log in some more hours at the archery range. You're a terrible shot." [laughs]

C: Yeah, I'm so sad we didn't see the scene where she accidentally kills Dean with an archery bow and arrow! That would be so cool.

G: I know. I like, was scouring my brain like, "When did Doris kill Dean Winchester?" And the answer is, "Not in this episode, she didn't."

C: Yeah. Probably in like, a cut scene for time or something, which is so sad.

G: Yeah. They should have put it in, because I feel like women deserve to [laughing] kill Dean Winchester.

C: I agree.

G: Yeah, so.

C: Especially because he calls her like, "sweetheart" at some point when he- when he orders something. And I don't- like, people seem to be acting like this is just like, diner etiquette in like, fic-

G: Is it?

C: I don't think it is!

G: Yeah, I also don't think it is. But I mean, diner cultures and like, tip culture and stuff like that, like-

C: Hm.

G: Okay, I know we talked about tips before, but I'm gonna ask this. I don't think I asked this before. Is there not a service fee? Like, why- like, if you go to a restaurant and you pay, do they not add like, 8% or something as service fees?

C: For large parties, they will add something as a service fee.

G: Large parties as in a party, or like a group of people.

C: Like, at least- I think it's like, 6 or more or something like that.

G: Oh. Why don't they just do that for everything?

C: I don't know. Because they love paying people below minimum wage.

G: Yeah. Anyway.

Doris is like, "How'd you know that?" And Sam's like, "Lucky guess," and he's so angry and upset. And Dean asks like, "Oh, what's this thing you're in again?" And Sam's like, "Time loop." And he's very upset. He's like, "There's no way to stop it." Dean goes, "Oh, aren't you so grumpy?" And Sam's like, "Yeah, I am. You know why? Because this is the hundredth- hundredth- one hundredth- Tuesday in a row that I've been through.

C: This has been going-

G: And he goes, "It never stops."

C: What was I even doing 3 months? Jesus Christ.

G: Well, fucking recording this podcast! [both laugh]

C: That's true.

G: This is the only constant in my life. [laughs] Like, everything changes, but the fact that we are recording a Supernatural podcast will stay the same.

C: That's true. That is good.

G: And he starts doing this thing where everything that he- that is about to happen, he says it. So he says "hot sauce," and then the waiter arrives, and the hot sauce falls, and it's like, "Ooh!" And Dean goes like, "Nice reflexes." And Sam's like, [seriously] "I knew it was gonna happen, Dean. I know everything that's gonna happen." Dean is like, "You don't know everything." And Sam goes, "Yeah, I do." And then he starts mimicking Dean's every sentence and then responding and then mimicking the next sentence and responding, and it's actually quite funny.

C: It's so funny. It's very like- It's fast-paced, it's good, like, they're both like, leaning in aggressively. Like, it's good.

G: Yeah. And it's like, "Yeah, right." "Nice guess." And it's like [laughs], it's super fun, and then he was like, "You think you're being funny, but you're being really really childish! Sam Winchester wears makeup. Sam Winchester cries his way through sex. Sam Winchester keeps a ruler by the side of his bed and-" It's actually pretty funny.

C: Yeah. "Every morning, he wakes up and-" They don't let him finish and say that he measures his penis, but-

G: Literally-

C: It's important to measure your bottom growth while you're on T! It's a good thing to keep track of!

G: Exactly.

C: It's not his fault. Yeah.

G: It's not his fault!

C: Okay, yeah. Okay. Which of those things do you think is true? Well, I think that it would be very cool and sexy of Sam to wear makeup. And [laughing] I think he does cry during sex. [G laughs]

G: No, we've seen him, but he's very...

C: Right. [laughs] That's true. Sam's sexsona [G laughs] is very different from Sam.

G: I love that. Sexsona. I'm gonna start integrating that to my vocabulary.

C: Alright. [laughs] Knock yourself out.

G: I mean, I think Sam wearing makeup is fun. What kind of makeup do you think he'll wear? Maybe eyeliner?

C: Yeah, I was gonna say eyeliner.

G: Perhaps even... guyliner? [C laughing]

C: Maybe even guyliner.

I feel like Sam would have had like a goth or like, punk phase at some point when he was like, "I'm gonna make Dad really angry." But John was never around long enough to see Sam in the like, fishnets and eyeliner, anyway.

G: Yeah.

Sam is like, walking down the street now- Oh, no no no. So Sam is saying that like, Randy the cashier is skimming through the register, and like, he starts outlining like, every single person in the diner and saying, like, "This person is doing that, this person is doing that. I've lived through every possible Tuesday. I've watched you die every possible way. I have ripped apart the Mystery Spot, burnt it down-" [both laughing] He's fucking crazy, dude.

C: God! I can't believe we didn't get to see the arson scene! It'd be so fun.

G: Yeah!

C: He would probably look soo good like, turning his back to the fire, and, like the lighting would be so good. [laughs] Anyway.

G: Yeah. And he's like, "I tried to save your life, and I really can't. No matter what I do, you die, and then I wake up, and then it's Tuesday again." And like, I like that line because it's like, foreshadowing also for season 3. Like, no matter what happens, you die. That's just it.

C: Yeah.

G: And maybe you need an angel to resurrect you. [C laughs]

C: Maybe so.

C: So. They are walking outside. Sam predicts what everyone's gonna say as they pass by people. And when the woman who bumped into them the first time bumps into them, Dean says out loud, "She's kind of cute" and then turns around and like, is like, "Okay, I'm gonna break the cycle." So he runs after her, and he asks her if he can have one of her flyers. And it's a missing poster that she's made for her dad, who is the professor that they are doing this whole- that they were doing this original case about. So, you know, that's interesting. And then [laughs] Sam goes to follow her to ask her some questions, and Dean sees the dog, and he goes, "Hi, buddy!"

G: He goes, "Hi, little doggy!"

C: "Somebody need a friend?"

G: [laughing] And then the dog kills him!

C: "Who's a good boy?" And then there's a growl, and he screams. [laughs] So true.

G: Has a dog ever attacked you? What's your relationship with dogs?

C: I mean, I like dogs well enough. I think once, there was a dog that like, chased me down the street, and that was pretty scary. [both laugh]

G: Yeah, it is.

C: But the owner got it under control eventually. My sister really likes dogs, but also, I think, like, our neighbor's dog once like, chewed up her favorite stuffed animals, so maybe she holds a grudge against dogs because of that.

G: Aww.

C: But yeah, dogs are all right.

G: Yeah. I once got bitten in the mouth-

C: What?

G: In the lip.

C: How? Jesus.

G: Buy our dog.

C: Nooo!

G: So it's like, our dog. It's fine. It's okay.

C: Okay.

G: And I had to get injected like, on the lip by like, the anti-rabies was on the arm, and then the other injection, I think, was like, anti-tetanus-

C: Tetanus?

G: - was injected to me on the lip. I don't know. Like, because it was so near my brain they had to inject something else. I don't know if it's tetanus. And I had a swollen lip for like, a whole week, and it was super fun. [C laughs] Yeah, but like, that dog is so sweet. She's just a little like, you know, hyper, but she's so sweet. Yeah, I love dogs.

C: Yeah.

G: [laughs] And I feel like it's true sometimes that dogs can feel when a person has bad vibes. Like, if it's a generally good dog-

C: Yeah.

G: - and if you have bad vibes-

C: So you're saying you have bad vibes?

G: So my point here is- No, no, no! The dog was like, playing with me, and that's why she accidentally bit my lip.

C: Aww.

G: Like, she's like, super excited to see me, and I was like, "Hello! Hello! How are you?" and then like, she bit my lip.

C: Aw.

G: I'm saying Dean [laughs]- I'm saying Dean has bad vibes.

C: Ohh. So fucking true. He does have terrible, terrible vibes.

C: So Sam wakes up again. "Heat of the Moment"'s playing. And they're in the diner, and Sam notices that the man with the pancakes- in the past, he's always had a thing of maple syrup next to him, but this time, it's pink. It is strawberry syrup. And-

G: You know how he notices this?

C: What?

G: Don't you think it's so funny? Because they were- like, Sam did some research on what the girl said, probably, right? And he's like, "Oh, this guy, he's spent his whole life crapping on mystery spots, like, debunking them and stuff." And Dean actually goes, "Oh, you did a lot of research," and Sam is like, "Yeah, heh." At this point, he didn't tell Dean that like, he's dying over and over again. And then Dean, like says, like, "Isn't it so ironic? Like, it's kind of poetic. It's like just desserts."

C: Oh, yeah.

G: And Sam goes, "You're right. That is just desserts." [laughing] And then his eyes linger over at the dessert.

C: Yeah. That's fun.

G: [laughing] And it's soo stupid! It's so stupid, but it's so fun, so I support that 100%.

C: Right. So Sam notices this, and he's like, "What the fuck. This is something new." And he runs outside. He's about to run outside to follow this guy because he says, "Nothing ever changes in this diner except for me." And then he's immediately hit with the sleep blast, and he wakes up again.

G: I know! That's actually like, amazing story telling, I feel.

C: Yeah, I like that a lot.

G: To tell us that he's on the right track, that the Trickster literally just woke him up already. I love that.

C: Yeah, it's good.

G: I think it's pretty cool. And then he wakes up, and he's got Super Serious Sam Face.

C: [laughs] Yes.

G: And he's like, man on a mission. And Sam follows- like, they're in a diner, and then Sam follows the guy, and he corners him and puts a stake- is it by his neck? By his throat, right?

C: Yeah.

G: And the man is like, [begging] "Oh my god, please don't kill me!" [laughs] Every time I make a voice now, I remember that one person who was like, "I like the voices that Grey makes in the podcast," [C laughs] and I'm like, "Aww, thank you." Somebody appreciates the little voices I make.

C: Yeah, they're good.

G: Sam keeps on insisting that like, "Yeah. You just give people just desserts. You love that, don't you?" Yeah. And it's like- the thing is like, the guy has a sweet tooth. The Trickster has a sweet tooth, which they don't mention in this episode, but it's true. Like, we've established that. So yeah. I actually thought what happens here is he sees the guy eating a lollipop, and that's how he figures it out.

C: No, that was in-

G: I think it's "Changing Channels," yeah yeah yeah.

Finally, they just- the man is like, insistent that he's just some guy. And Sam is like, "No! Don't fucking lie to me. I know who you are." And the man is like- Oh, no, no, Sam says, "I know who you are. We killed one of your kind before." And the Trickster goes, "Actually, you didn't!" And then transforms into Gabriel.

C: Whoo!

G: Well, the Trickster at this point. Do we like Gabriel or do we not like Gabriel?

C: I don't like him very much, but like- yeah. That's it, actually.

G: Completely understand that. I mean, I think the whole like, suave guy who's very like, "I'm gonna have sex," blah blah blah, is like, a bit tired, you know?

C: Yeah.

G: I mean, I think there are ways to be a guy who has sex without being like a sleazy motherfucker, you know?

C: Yeah. I agree.

G: Yeah. And I don't think this is like a symptom-

C: I mean, the last time we saw him, it was like, awful. He was just making women out of thin air to giggle and have sex with him.

G: Yeah.

C: Like, that's shitty. I don't like it.

G: Yeah. And we have-

C: And I know he's gonna be in "Hammer of the Gods," so I already hate him for that.

G: Yeah. And I mean, his character is like- I don't know. Don't like it that much. And it's so absolutely hilarious to me that people ship him with Sam. [laughs] It's so funny.

C: I mean, yeah, I mean, again, I cannot cast judgment yet but, you know.

G: Yeah. Will you cast judgment in season 14 when they Sabriel bait to hell and back?

C: I- probably. Yes. Oh, wait, someone I follow on Tumblr wrote a Sabriel fic recently, and I wanted to read it before this episode, so that I could recommend another Sabriel fic, but I didn't read it, so I can't recommend it yet.

G: RIP. R.I.P.

So Sam's like, "Why are you doing this?" And the trickster's like, "You literally tried to fucking kill me. That's why I'm doing this."

C: Which is fair.

G: And he said that the guy who he killed didn't believe in wormholes, "so I dropped him in one."

C: [laughs] Jesus Christ.

G: Wormhole being like, space wormhole?

C: I guess. Like, I don't even know.

G: Isn't that- Okay, I'm not a science-y guy-

C: Aren't wormholes proven? It's, okay, a hypothetical.

G: Yeah. But like, there's stuff that like, are hypothetical above the universe that are like, you know, you don't go out and say like, "I don't believe in wormholes."

C: Right. [laughs]

G: Like, who says that, for real? Who is willing to stand that ground?

C: I mean, what was he a professor of? What was he a professor of?

G: I think physics.

C: Oh, then, okay, then, that makes sense, I think. Like, academics get really fired up. Like, some biologists care so much about whether or not the meteors actually completely wiped out the dinosaurs, or if there's like-

G: No, I mean, that's like, a for real thing, though. Like, "The meteor wiped out the dinosaurs, what percentage of that is true?" is like, an actual thing that did happen.

C: Yeah. But like-

G: But something theoretical, something hypothetical- Well, okay, I get what you mean. Theoretical is not the right word.

C: Yeah. I mean, I think, yeah, I think his position is just like, "I understand that the math says that wormholes are possible, but I don't think that any of them actually exist." I understand, like, caring strongly about that if you're a physics professor.

G: Yeah, perhaps.

C: God, what a thing for Gabriel to do, though. Is he really strongly on pro-wormhole side of the debate?

G: I mean, do you think like, this is them canonizing it in Supernatural that wormholes do exist?

C: Yeah, I guess so. Right. I guess Gabriel was annoyed because this guy like, went around and thought he was Mythbusters and like, went and reviewed a bunch of tourist traps that were wormhole-related. But like, still. Come on, dude. What a thing to get worked up about.

G: Yeah. This guy's jobless. Start a podcast. [both laugh] That's my advice to Gabriel so that he can better his life. He should start a podcast.

C: Yeah, yeah. I'm sure that it will not make him any more annoying in any way.

G: Yeah, exactly.

C: I think BABPod has made me worse.

G: Sam asks, like, "Is this fun for you?" I love that phrase.

C: Yeah.

G: "Is this fun for you, killing Dean over and over?" And he's like "Well, one, yes, it is fun. Two, it's not about that. It's about you, Sam."

C: So good.

G: "Watching your brother die every day." Sam says "son of a bitch." Whoo! [laughs]

C: So the whole time, he has Gabriel like, pinned against a wall, semi-homoerotically, and like they're like-

G: I know!

C: And I think- okay. And like Dean is just standing off to the side, like, occasionally making like, facial expressions.

G: He's like, "Okay." Is this gay slug reaction?

C: Right. And my ex-fiancee was like, "Dean has such 'I to am in this episode' vibes in this scene," and I love that.

G: Oh yeah! I thought about that. But, like, I think there is still some- like, he's not a real person this episode, Dean Winchester.

C: Yeah. Yeah, they fridge him. [G laughing]

G: I mean, I will neither confirm nor deny that statement. [C laughs] But yeah, I love that he to is in this episode.

C: Mm.

G: Yeah. Sam says, "you son of a bitch." Love that. [C laughs] And yeah, the Trickster says the thesis of what he's doing, which is, "How long will it take you to realize you can't save your brother, no matter what." And Sam is like, "Okay, I'll kill you then." And the Trickster is like, "Well, I'll just make you wake up, and then it's gonna be Wednesday." And he says, "If you don't believe me, you know where I am, which is having pancakes in a diner."

C: He literally doesn't have to go back there, though. Like, he can walk somewhere else. This is not a good promise.

G: Yeah. And then Sam wakes up, and it's not playing Asia anymore.

C: Yeah. So okay, what is-

G: You know I have a cousin named Asia?

C: Huh. Nice.

G: Maybe it is a name.

C: Yeah, it is a name, I think I've met-

G: I know someone named Filipina, I think.

C: [laughs] Nice.

G: Filipino or something. And then- yeah, it was a schoolmate. Fun times! Imagine being named- what's the Chinese word for Chinese?

C: Like, zhong'guo or- well, okay, there's a word "hua," like hua'ren, which means Chinese people, and that is [laughing] one of the characters in my Chinese name. [G laughs]

G: So real!

C: My name is literally China.

G: So real.

C: Yeah. So like, what the fuck is Gabriel's motivation here? Like, why does he care whether or not Sam realizes that he can't save Dean?

G: I mean, he just wants to fuck with them! But like, his actual motivations? Well, maybe it's like- Does he know that they are the vessels? He does, right?

C: Yeah, yeah. I was trying to think about it in terms of that, too, because, like, if Sam actually succeeds in saving Dean, then, like, the first seal would never be broken. But, like, Gabriel doesn't want the- does he want the apocalypse? I don't think he does, does he?

G: I don't know. Like, from his motivation later, what we're made to feel or think is that he just wants out. Like, he doesn't wanna be involved.

C: Huh. He's being quite involved right now.

G: I think- no, no, no. like. I think what's happening, 'cause like, in "Changing Channels," it's like, "play your part." And like, I feel like here, it's also that. Like, "If the apocalypse is gonna happen, so be it. Just play your fucking part. Like, let Dean die because that's what's supposed to happen."

C: Yeah.

G: Wow. Excellent character analysis happening in BABPod right now. [C laughs]

C: So true. You just have to wade through like, 2 hours of nonsense. [G laughs]

G: Hey, I'm gonna cut it out! It's gonna be at the end of the episode.

C: I love that. The episode will end, and then there will be half an hour afterwards. [G laughing]

G: Of just random shit we've talked about? That's so real. This is- I'm gonna keep this in the episode so that people know that there is something at the end of some episodes where we just talk shit.

C: Yeah, that's exciting.

G: Yeah.

C: Yeah. But also I feel like a lot of Sabriel motivation also comes from this episode where they're like, "He's just psychosexually obsessed with Sam. Why else would he put him through these mind games?" [laughs] Which I think is a very fun interpretation.

G: Yeah, perhaps. Yeah.

C: Yeah. So it is indeed a new song on the radio, and it is Wednesday. And Dean's like, "Yeah, duh." And- right. Dean asks how many Tuesdays Sam had, and, you know, Sam asks what Dean remembers, and apparently, Dean just remembered the last day with them running into the Trickster and all that. So he does not know a lot of the details. So yeah, he also just remembered the Trickster and then just woke up. But he is apparently totally fine with not remembering a whole day. And Sam says that they should get the fuck out of town. And we cut to the scene where, you know, Dean's loading up Baby, ready to go, and then Cal shows up, who's the guy from the diner earlier, who, like, the waitress was trying to kick out, and he has a gun, and he is trying to mug Dean. He, you know, is not- clearly like, going through something. He's not doing well. And he is also telling Dean to give him his wallet. And Dean goes like, "Hey. Let's just talk about this." And then there's a gunshot, and Dean's dead. Hahahahaha! It's so funny.

G: RIP.

C: Yeah, and Sam's devastated, you know, because this one's actually gonna count. And he's, you know, begging him like, "No, please not today," etc., etc. And he waits to wake up, and he doesn't. RIP.

How much time does he have left on his deal?

G: I don't know. Which is why I think this episode is fascinating. Maybe- I think around 6 months, maybe, he has.

C: Oh, wait, I thought the initial deal was for 6 months. Was it for a year?

G: A year, yeah yeah yeah.

C: Well, we're more than halfway through this season, so I would assume that he has less than 6 months.

G: Yeah, yeah. Perhaps.

C: Yeah. Well, F to Dean.

G: Yeah. I felt emotional when Sam said, like, "I'm supposed to wake up." I was like, "Aww!" Poor him. Like, all he wanted to do was get out of the loop, and now he's out, and it's like, actually worse. That's so sad, and he's wishing he's back in.

G: Anyway, 6 months later, Sam's driving down the road. He's so sad.

C: I know he's having an awful time, but it's just so funny. It's so funny how dramatic and sad he is.

G: He is so dramatic and sad. And it's like Bobby leaving him a voicemail like, "You took care of that demon in Death Valley, but it's been three months since we talked, so it'd be nice if you would give me a call."

C: Yeah.

C: Do you think it's- do you think Sam throwing himself in hunting after Dean's death is what you would imagine would happen?

G: No.

C: Yeah. It doesn't feel right. But I don't know what I would imagine.

G: I think here, because here, he's hunting something down, like, he's hunting the Trickster down. So it makes sense, because it's like, for revenge. Like, there is a very concrete way to avenge it, in comparison to like, if he died in "Faith."

C: Mm-hm.

G: Like, that's not the monster's fault. That's Dean being a stupid ass. [both laugh]

C: Right. Yeah, yeah. So all these other cases are just like, side hustles, I guess. Or like, he saw something and he was like, "Maybe the Trickster's here," but it was something else, and he was like, "Okay, time to do different murders than the one I planned."

G: Mm-hm. Exactly. Yeah. So what happens next is [laughs], Sam literally steps out of the car, and he's bloody. And he goes to a room, like a bathroom or something, and he- he's bloody, right? So he starts cutting up his shirt, and then he, like, takes out a bullet from his abdomen.

C: Yeah, with tweezers himself. God.

G: And they're doing the thing where they're like, "He's so rough and tough, baby. He doesn't even flinch!" Girl, flinch.

C: I- did they try to make this like, sexual in any way, or am I just a terrible person? [G laughs]

G: You wanna fuck his bullet hole? What's-

C: Noo! God, no. I just feel like the angle that this was shot at. Okay, yeah, I feel like the "he's so rough and tough" is often shot in a way that is sexual because virility is related to like, toughness and masculinity, so yeah, I think it was just all packaged together.

G: Mm-hm. Yeah, perhaps. But yeah. And then, you know, it's voiceover again of Bobby going, "I'm worried about you! Tell me you're not sitting alone-" like, it's so funny because he's sitting down, and he's staring at this wall of red string. You know, the ones. And Bobby is like, "Tell me you're not sitting alone, completely obsessed with the Trickster" and stuff like that. And he mentions another case that Sam did good at, and finally, it's a voice message again of Bobby saying that- saying, "I found him."

C: Yeah, okay. Also, like, there's a scene where, like, in the montage, where it's like, Sam wakes up, and he like, sits up in bed like a fucking Sim.

G: Love that.

C: Like, did you notice this? Like, just fully straight back, like, bending only at like, the hip.

G: Ohh, okay! Yeah, yeah, yeah. The one where he's like, he brushes his teeth, right?

C: I think?

G: I don't know.

C: King of dental care

G: King of dental care.

C: Yeah, I don't know. It's just- it's so funny. Jared Padalecki sure is an actor. He was like, "In order to portray grief, he will not change his face at any second, and he will cut his food with a knife in the most like, dramatic way ever-" and yeah, I just-

G: He literally- yeah.

C: Like, 6 months is like, a long time. Like, grief is a lot, but it is not like, monotone, you know?

G: Yeah, I feel like-

C: Like, there are moments where you're like laughing hysterically; there are moments of joy; there are moments of crying. Like, you can't just be like, stolid and stoic the entire time.

G: Yeah, like, grief is an ugly, ugly thing, and I feel like Supernatural is so afraid of that ugliness. Like, because it could be seen as way too emotional. Like, you know, like, they don't even let Dean cry when John dies. He just smashes up a car because it looks cool. [C laughs] Like, when Charlie dies, no one sheds a tear. Everyone's just mad.

C: Dean just yells and tells Sam that he wishes that it was him.

G: Yeah. I thought to myself, "Yeah." And then, "The only time Dean cried was like, when Mary died and also when Cas died," and my heart like did like a little like, "ough!"

C: Aww.

G: So sad. Devastating!

C: I have seen the scene where Sam cries over Dean's body in the season 3 finale [G laughs], and I think that that was actually a decent amount of crying?

G: Yeah, but it's not like- Like, Supernatural, is not good at like showing-

C: Yeah, the whole process.

G: - grief as like, a long period of time. Or, I don't know. I think they did the grieving John- Do you think they did that well? I was gonna say I think they did it well, but like, eh. I don't know.

C: I don't remember season 2 anymore. That's the past. That was a different Crystal. That was a different show.

G: Yeah. It was a long time ago.

C: Yeah. [laughs]

C: So Sam finally goes to Bobby because of the call about how Bobby has found a way to get the Trickster. And, you know, he has a book; there is a whole ritual set up, and Bobby like, comes over and he hugs Sam. God, isn't it so sad that, like-

G: This is fake Bobby?

C: Yeah, how many Sam and Bobby hugs do we ever get? Like, okay, like, the last- like, the first time we see Bobby like, seeming to be really nice to Sam, he was just tricking Sam because he knew that, like, Meg was possessing him. And now this is fake Bobby hugging Sam. It's sad.

G: Mm-hm. Yeah. I mean, I hate it.

C: Yeah. Like, okay, Dean says things about how Bobby's like a dad to him, and I guess Bobby sometimes talks about Sam and Dean as his sons, like, together in one sentence. But like, does he ever do anything for Sam specifically?

G: Bobby?

C: Yeah. [G laughing]

G: I mean, there was a scene where he was like, "I'm gonna play baseball with the kids," and it's just Dean! [C laughing] I love that so much. Like, he didn't even take Sam out to play ball with him. It was just Dean.

C: [laughing] God, that's so funny.

G: I think about that constantly.

C: God bless.

G: God fucking bless.

C: Yeah, Sam to is in my family.

G: Yeah!

C: Yeah, so yeah. Bobby hugs Sam, and he says that there's a summoning ritual to bring the Trickster here, and what they need is a gallon of blood that is fresh. And Sam says that it means we have to bleed a person dry. It didn't say it all had to be from the same person, right?

G: Yeah.

C: Like, we looked this up, and a gallon is 8 pints. If you get 8 people, like, it would just be like a blood drive donation each.

G: Yeah.

C: And like, right, and my ex-fiancee was like, "This is why hunters need like, more of a community or whatever." Because if you just hit up the hunter groupchat and say, like, "There's this dangerous reality-bending thing that we're after, and what we need is 8 total pints of blood," like, people would volunteer, and they would drive over.

G: Yeah, I think so too.

C: It's stupid.

G: I love the concept of a hunter groupchat.

C: [laughs] Yeah.

G: Yeah. Who do you think is the guy that's like, sending like, you know those memes that are like, "Good morning!"

C: [laughing] What?

G: Do you have like a- do you not have a family member who sends like, good morning text to everyone in the groupchat?

C: Huh.

G: "Have a good day," and it's like a purple butterfly, sparkly Picsart thing. [C laughs] I'm serious!

C: No, I trust that this is true, but, no, I don't think so. I mean, some of my family members are more like, WeChat sticker-heavy than other ones-

G: Oh, yeah, of course.

C: But yeah, I don't know about that.

G: In the US, what's- is it iMessage? Well, you don't have iMessage. But what do people do, usually, for messaging? What application?

C: Hm. I think most people just use, like, text. Like SMS.

G: Yeah, but like, you need load for that.

C: You need what for that?

G: Load. It's the- [laughing]

C: Load?

G: That's such a funny thing to say. Is that not something you say in the US? You need load?

C: You need a fat load on your face? What? [G laughing]

G: Load, as in like, to text someone, you need something in your phone, like load. I don't- [laughs] This is so stupid.

C: Huh. Maybe this is a real thing, and I'm revealing myself as a dumbass right now.

G: Wait, wait. Load. What is it called?

Ah, okay! "In America and many other countries, people have a cell phone data plan by the month." Is this what you have?

C: Yeah. Wait, do you not? Is this not how cell phones work?

G: Well, there are people who do that, but that's usually like, rich people. "In the Philippines and many other countries, you buy data by time." Here, it's called loading your phone. You buy load. "What is load called in other countries?" And it's on Quora, and I have to start a free trial to see the full response, and I'm not going to. [C laughs]

C: Huh. Yeah. I think everyone- I feel like I haven't really met many people who can't just use SMS messaging. Yeah, I guess people-

G: Oh, in the UK, it's called "top up." It's called prepaid.

C: Oh, that's what that means. Interesting. I always assumed people charging their phones.

G: No, charging is like for battery.

C: Yeah, no no no- when one people said "top up" their phone in British shows, I assumed they meant they had to charge them.

G: Yeah, yeah. In the Philippines, it's called prepaid and post-paid. Post-paid is you pay it after, so you have a plan, and then prepaid is you pay it before. So you buy load, and then you use up the load, which is what I do.

C: Huh. Neat.

G: Yeah.

C: Yeah.

G: Anyway. So yeah, you just have load, then. Love that.

C: Yeah. Just have load. So-

G: [laughs] Lots and lots of loads.

C: Yup.

And Bobby says that, "Oh, this is only going to work if we do it tonight, or else it won't work for another 50 years!"

G: Love that.

C: And Sam's fucking ready to murder a guy. Sam's like, "Okay, cool."

G: I mean, we can assume that the reason why-

C: That's true.

G: - is he knows this is not Bobby.

C: Yeah, so he could just be saying shit. Yeah.

G: Yeah.

C: But what what point does he know that it's not Bobby?

G: I don't know. Well, at what point did you know it's not Bobby?

C: I mean, I already knew, because I knew that Sam kills Bobby but doesn't actually kill Bobby in this episode.

G: Ugh. Loser.

C: Sorry. I think I saw a post-

G: I didn't know that. I completely forgot this.

C: You forgot? You forgor?

G: Yeah.

C: Oh, that's fun.

G: I forgor.

C: At what point did you know that it wasn't him?

G: Oh, when he was like, "You have to kill me." [both laugh] I was like, "This is not Bobby. Bobby does not give a fuck about Sam." [C laughing]

C: But he cares about Dean.

G: No, I mean, he was like- Do you think he's gonna be like, to Dean, like, "Dean, your brother is dead. Like, you have to move on." And then to Sam, he's like, "Let's bring Dean back!" Do you think this is gonna happen?

C: [laughing] No, I don't. Yeah, you're right. He would just say, "Get over it, boy-"

G: "Get over it, boy."

C: - and then slap Sam on the back or something.

G: Yeah.

C: Okay, but also, okay, this whole 6 months is like, real, though, right?

G: Yeah yeah yeah. I do like-

C: Where's the actual Bobby, and how did he take Dean's death?

G: I mean-

C: Also, isn't it sad? I assumed that Ellen would also be calling Sam during this time, but we only get Bobby voicemails.

G: I don't know. I mean, it's not relevant to his journey.

C: Yeah.

G: Maybe Ellen's voicemail was like- she didn't know about the hunt, and like, what we needed to know as the audience is that Sam has been hunting, so...

C: Right, yeah.

G: It was erased. Viciously.

C: Yeah. Sad.

G: Sad!

C: So Bobby's like, "You break my heart, kid." 'Cause yeah, he says, like, "I don't want you to murder an innocent man, and I only brought you here because you would not come and see me unless it was something related to the Trickster. And I thought that this would sort of snap you out of it." And yeah, Sam's like, [whiny] "It's none of your business what I do! Just let me kill people! Get over it!" So yeah, Bobby's like, "Okay, if you want Dean back so bad, then like, here. Kill me instead, 'cause it's better than a civilian." And he hands Sam, like, a big ol' knife. And Bobby's like, "Hey, okay. It's okay. I'm old!" And Jim Beaver proceeds to be in 12 more seasons of Supernatural and also The Boys. "I'm old! Like, I'm gonna die soon! But like, you can keep like, hunting and saving people, but you can't do it without Dean, so I will do this for you." So like, yeah. That shit. Yeah and he says that Sam and Dean the closest thing that he has family God, and what is Rufus to you? Chopped liver? Get over yourself. [G laughs]

Well, but it's Gabriel. Gabriel doesn't know about Rufus, I guess.

G: Yeah.

C: And yeah, Bobby like, turns around and he's like, kneeling. He's like, ready to get his head chopped off execution style, or something. And-

G: Yeah. [laughs] It's such a goofy scene. Like, I'm so sorry, I know this is supposed to be emotional, but it's so goofy. He's like, "Just make it quick." And I'm like, "Girl. [both laugh] Stop it."

C: Yeah. Yeah. Like, you're telling me Bobby doesn't have like, 6 friends who can contribute the other pints? God!

G: Yeah.

C: So Sam swithces the knife to like, the stake that, like- what's the special type of stake that kills tricksters?

G: I don't know. Evergreen, I think, is for the pagan gods, so maybe this is also evergreen.

C: Sure, yeah.

G: Because, I mean, the Trickster is a quote- no, not pagan god. It's like, Norse god, right?

C: Yeah, they considered Loki to be a trickster form.

G: Yeah.

C: Yeah. And Sam's like, "Okay, sure, I will kill you, but because you're not actually Bobby." And he stabs fake Bobby in the back with the stake.

G: And he was like, so upset when he thought for a second he was wrong, and I was like, "Well, at least you have the 8 pints of blood." [laughs]

C: Yeah, you got it! Don't worry. Hurry up! You have to do it tonight, or else you can't do it in 50 years!

G: Exactly.

C: Yeah. But, you know, Sam has limits, and one of his limits is that he doesn't actually wanna kill Bobby. What a good son.

G: [laughs] Yeah. Sure. [C laughs]

C: Yeah, so nothing happens, and Sam starts getting panicked and yelling for Bobby, but then, you know, eventually his corpse vanishes and the Trickster is here.

G: Yeah.

C: And was like, “Haha, yeah, I was just messing with you.” Yeah, he also says, “Whoever said Dean was the dysfunctional one has never seen you with a sharp object in your hands.” Which I guess is a fun, like, "Dean to is in this episode" moment.

G: Line, yeah.

C: Yeah. Yeah. I like it whenever they try to remember that Sam's the main character. You know, Sam demands that Gabriel bring Dean back, and he's like, "Uh, no. He, like, is dead, like, for real, and he is in Hell right now." Okay, so like, if you die- Okay, so, okay. If you make the deal at any point, if you die afterwards, then you're going to Hell. It's not just if the hellhounds get you.

G: Yeah, I think so.

C: Okay. Neat. Yeah. Dean's been tortured so much these past 6 months. Do you think he's broken yet down there?

G: Well, I mean, it took him 4 months to break last time.

C: Okay, so he is- he's down there torturing people now. Good for him. [laughs] So-

G: Yeah, perhaps.

C: So Sam says that, you know, "We won't come after you if you just take us back to that Tuesday or Wednesday." And I think it it did make me a little sad that he was like using "we," like, in that sentence. He does feel like Dean is still with him, or he like, can't get used to Dean not being still with him. And the Trickster is like, “I could, but I don't fucking want to, because I am trying to teach you a lesson here. Because you're way too obsessed with saving Dean, and you two keep sacrificing yourselves for each other, and nothing good comes out of it, just blood and pain. Dean’s your weakness, and the bad guys know it, too." Yeah, he says that, you know, this is gonna kill Sam, and sometimes he just has to let people go. And this will be a speech that is increasingly more relevant as each season of Supernatural goes off the rails more, I guess.

G: [laughs] Exactly.

C: Yeah. And Sam goes like, "Well, he's my brother." But, you know, the Trickster is like, "No. Well, you just have to get used to what life will be like without him." And I think this is a pretty good like, season 3 episode. Because, like, I feel like it says- it shows us what everything would be like if Sam didn't have Ruby after Dean's death. And yeah. Good for Ruby. Thank you for being there.

G: Yeah.

C: And manipulating him, as you should. [G laughs] Yeah, so the Trickster is eventually like, “Ugh, whatever, I’m like fucking bored of this or whatever." He says, “You’re Travis Bickle in a skirt,” and I don't. I don't understand that. Like, I looked up-

G: What's Travis- who's Travis Bickle?

C: Okay, so I looked that up, and he is the protagonist of Taxi Cab, and I don't remember the specifics. He was like, a veteran, and then he was like, started like acting out violent fantasies or something. I don't really remember. I think he was just a guy who did a lot of violence in a movie.

G: W- wait. You're talking about the guy or the character of the movie?

C: Oh, the character! The character!

G: Oh my god.

C: God, no.

G: Okay. Okay.

C: He's a fictional- he's a fictional character.

G: Okay, yeah, I have no idea what this means.

C: Oh, he was played by Robert de Niro, who, you know, also played Goncharov, of course. [laughs]

G: I have that word muted and stuff, so I don't know anything about it.

C: Oh, you didn't- okay, you didn't enjoy the Goncharov week?

G: No, I didn't.

C: I enjoyed the Goncharov week.

G: I actively hated it.

C: That's fair. Okay.

G: Yeah, sorry for not being Tumblrina enough.

C: I understand. Oh, yeah, and I guess for anyone who's listening who like, has had trouble with Goncharov because of the lack of unreality warnings, it's not a real movie, and hashtag unreality here. Okay.

So right, so that's who Travis Bickle is, but the skirt thing doesn't make any sense. Like, I looked up "Travis Bickle skirt," "Travis Bickle in a skirt," [G laughs] and like, the only things that came up were like, skirts with his face on it-

G: Oh, I support that.

C: Or people just being confused about this line in Supernatural. See, I think- is Gabriel just calling Sam gay? I feel like that may just be what's happening.

G: Is Robert de Niro, like, a short king.

C: I don't know. Let me look it up.

G: What's the- It's not on his Wikipedia page!

C: Are people's heights on their-

G: Maybe I'm thinking of like, character, like, you know how like, if you go to Ace Attorney Wiki, there's like, "height of the character"-

C: Okay, he's somewhere between 5'7 and 5'9.

G: I mean, that's still pretty tall. But like, short king core.

C: Yeah.

G: Who's the Tumblrina short king? There is a guy, right? He's like on Sunny something. It's Always Sunny. Danny Devito!

C: Oh, right. Danny Devito.

G: [laughing] It's so funny. Because when you said "Robert de Niro," I legitimately was thinking of Danny Devito. [both laugh] So like, when you were like, "He was out of the military, he was a veteran who became a very violent man," I was imagining [laughing] Danny Devito in that role.

C: [laughing] Yeah, no.

G: So that's super fun.

C: Yeah.

G: I mean, their names basically rhyme.

C: They do rhyme. That's pretty fun.

G: At this point, Danny Devito, [in unison] Robert de Niro.

C: Yeah. It's a good rhythm. They could be like, rhyming lines in like, a verse of a song.

G: Exactly.

C: Yeah. So, right. The Trickster says that he's "over it," and then just snaps. And then Sam wakes up on Wednesday again. Which is a pretty unsatisfying conclusion, I think.

G: And then he sits up, and he's like- you know, Dean is brushing his teeth, and it's like Wednesday, on repeat. And I feel like Sam is very scared here that it's just gonna be a Tuesday thing again.

C: Mm.

G: So he's very careful that like, "You can't go anywhere alone," blah blah blah. And he hugs Dean. And Dean asks like, "How many Tuesdays have you had?" And Sam goes, "Way too many" or something. "Enough." He says, "Enough." And Dean doesn't remember anything, but they go pack the car, and Sam's like, out of it. And he just said, "I just had a really weird dream." And Dean [laughing]-

C: God.

G: Asks the question he asked on the second day. "Clowns or midgets?" And it's like- yeah. And then they go out, and Sam like, looks at his bed one last time, closes the light, and the episode ends as the music makes you sad, I guess [C laughs], is what it's supposed to do.

C: Yeah. A weak ending.

G: Yeah. Weak ending, I agree. But it's a hug. It's a solid hug.

C: Yeah. Yeah, that was sweet. Because it didn't happen the first Wednesday.

G: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It didn't.

C: And also, you know, Sam decides to not tell Dean about the 6 months that he spent after Dean's death. Which, what do you think the motivation behind that choice was?

G: Well, I think maybe perhaps talking about it is going to make it real, you know? Stuff like that.

C: Yeah, he just wants to forget it.

G: And also like, Dean is gonna die.

C: Yeah.

G: And if Sam reveals that like, "When you died, I became this person," it's gonna be a lot of concern on Dean's end that like, "When I die for realsies this time, is Sam gonna become that person?"

C: Right. Yeah. And Sam kept saying that, you know, "I want you to be worried about yourself, not about me." But during that argument, he also said, like, "I am going to be fine," but that is not true, as we can see.

G: Okay. So Best Line/Worst Line.

C: Oh, god, I don't even know.

G: I think my best line- I'll start. My best line is, "You were supposed to wake up." Like, that genuinely made me emotional.

C: Aww.

G: Oh, "I was supposed to wake up."

C: Yeah. Oh, god. Do I know any fucking line?

G: I mean, I think "Clowns or midgets?" is the worst line.

C: Yeah. Yeah. It is. I agree with that one.

G: There's no really, like, bad lines in this episode except that one, which is just like a joke with poor taste, I feel.

C: Yeah, I mean, I guess there is some like misogynistic bits too, but yeah. Oh god. What the fuck is the best line? Are there best lines? There are no lines in this episode.

G: Maybe there are none.

C: Oh, okay. Well, "Did it look cool, like in the movies?" That was fun.

G: Oh, yeah, that was fun.

C: I'll take that one.

G: Yeah. So how about, what's the term? Spreadsheet! What's our spreadsheet ratings?

When we record this podcast, do you just have the spreadsheet out? Or do you summon it in the middle of the recording?

C: I open it. I summon it when it's time.

G: Yeah.

C: So, okay.

G: So I think it's a 0 on racism, just because there are no people of color.

C: Yeah.

G: Or maybe there are, but I don't remember.

C: Not that I recall. Definitely no one prominent. And they didn't make any specifically racist jokes, as far as I can recall.

G: Yeah.

C: Yeah. It's so fun when they manage to get racism points, even when there's not a person of color in the episode, [G laughs] which they have managed before.

G: What's the- what's the misogyny tab?

C: Um, I don't know. Like, it was a little bit. Like a one, probably?

G: What, because of "sweetheart"? Stuff like that?

C: Yeah, I don't know. Okay, you're right. There were like insults directed at Sam that I feel like could have been homophobic or misogynistic?

G: Mm, I was thinking that's more homophobia.

C: Yeah, I feel like- well, yeah, a lot of Dean's homophobia is built off of misogyny, but yeah, I think I think it makes more sense to put that in the homophobia.

G: I think it's- yeah. So I think misogyny, it's a 0, congratulations. [C laughs] And in homophobia, perhaps a 1.

C: Yeah. Just a tad.

G: Yeah. Just a tad.

Okay, what is our- I know this is highly rated. For sure.

C: Yeah, I know this is high.

G: Maybe one of the most highly rated, I would say. 9.4 is my bet.

C: 9.4? I was going- I was gonna go like, like a lot lower. I was just gonna go for like a regular 9.

G: Okay.

C: Alright.

G: Let's see.

Ha!

C: What?

G: Got it, baby. 9.4.

C: It's literally 9.4, exactly on the dot?

G: It's literally 9.4

C: Wild. Congrats!

G: What's- Aw, "This is the episode I show people to introduce them to the series." Well, they will be sorely disappointed.

C: Yeah.

G: Yeah. "Best of Supernatural." I do think it's a really good episode, though. Like-

C: It's decent.

G: Like, it's weak, the ending is weak, I do agree with that. But I think there's enough intrigue, and there's like- maybe I just like that it's Sam-centric. Have we considered that?

C: Yeah, that part's nice.

G: Yeah. Like, after so many episodes of him just being to in this episode-

C: Yeah, I do like that. And, you know, it was very nice of Gabriel to decide to create something that narratively fit so well in the season, and then say that he did that for that purpose. Yeah, I mean, I thought it was funny. I guess I just didn't really get emotional at parts where I was supposed to, because I knew everything.

G: Aww!

C: What?

G: There's a review where it says, "My favorite part was, and I don't know if anyone noticed, but I didn't at first. When Sam was eating in the motel room after Dean died for seemed permanently, we can see that he bought his brother his bacon cheeseburger even though there was no Dean to eat it. That was just so so sad."

C: Oh, shit. Okay. That is really sad.

G: Okay.

C: Fine. That was a good detail. Congratulations.

G: This part is like, "What is annoying me about this episode is that the 'bad guys' are always convincing Sam that Dean is his weakness, and he will be the death of him-" Well, here it's like, "We all know Dean is Sam's guardian angel, and if it wasn't for him, Sam would have been killed several times already." Like, that's their point. But for me, my point is, it's just repetitive.

C: Yeah.

G: Like, we've seen this film before, over and over again.

C: We've seen so many things before. [G screams] What?

G: Next review is, "I can watch Dean die forever."

C: So fucking real.

G: "Absolutely hilarious, and Dean at his best" is him dying over and over again.

C: So real.

G: "The whole he finally dies in 6 months thing is kind of blah, though." Love that.

[laughs] "The dumbest episode of Supernatural so far. How to cram 6 months of Sam-going-bad character development into one episode just to then completely delete it all again. Might have been enjoyable to watch, but it's insanely stupid in context." Well, that's true. I think that is true.

C: That's fair, yeah.

G: Oh my god! "I have watched this show for 15 years. I do a complete rewatch at least once a year"?

C: What is wrong with you? What year was this posted in?

G: Don't say that! Don't be so mean!

C: You're right. What year was this posted in, though?

G: 2020. November 23.

C: So, like, the whole 327 episodes each year?

G: No, no, no. Like, it's like, I think what's happening here is, before season 15 airs, they watch 1-14. Before 14 airs, they watch 1-13. You know what I mean?

C: Huh.

G: Because it says, "I've been watching this show for 15 years" at 2020, which is when the show ended.

C: Okay, fair. Okay, so it's just- Yeah, okay, that's not as bad, I suppose.

G: It's just like you're rewatching before- you're refreshing your memory before the episodes, you know. Before the season starts.

C: Yeah. That's a lot. There's a lot that you're refreshing, though. Like, so much.

G: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So that's it for this episode of [enunciating aggressively] Busty Asian Beauties. [both laugh]

C: Why did you say it like that?

G: I have no idea! Next week, we will be discussing Season 3, Episode 12: "Jus in Bello." Leave us a rating or a review wherever you get your podcasts!

C: Follow us on social media. We are on Twitter at twitter.com/BeautiesPodcast and on Tumblr at bustyasianbeautiespod.tumblr.com. Our official tag is #BABPod, B-A-B-POD. And thank you to everyone who's donated to our Ko-Fi at ko-fi.com/bustyasianbeautiespod.

G: You can give us any feedback, comments, or inquiries at [email protected]. See you next time! [both] Bye!

[guitar music]

[beep]

G: I need to stop saying "slay," and I need to stop thinking about NCT.

C: Yeah. I mean, what can you do when she's a slayer but you just can't slay her? [G laughs] But yes.

G: Exactly.

[beep]

G: Wait, I'm gonna- I have a little tidbit to share at the end of this podcast, which is that, did you know that I can recite like, I don't know how many digits, but the 8 digits or something of-

C: Pi?

G: No, the light- no, not pi, the speed of light, c?

C: Oh, that's new. You're special. You're not like other girls.

G: I know, I'm so special. I'm literally so not like anyone else. But like, in our school, we had a song for it, which I think is so much fun. Like, I literally went from a school with a song for like, the Old Testament books to a school with a song about the speed of light. And the song goes like, "I'll be by your side, faster than the speed of light." And then there's a portion where they go [singing] "2 9 9 7 9 2 4 5 8 meters per second / That's the speed of light." It's so wonderful. And I wish I could link it, but then I'll be doxxing my school, and I don't wanna, so.

C: Yeah. That is sad.

G: Horrible experience. Such great conflict in my life.

C: I like that it was a whole song.

G: Oh, it was.

C: Like, it wasn't just the numbers to a tune. It was like, there were lyrics, there was a storyline, there was a love story in there. Wow.

G: Yeah. There's like, a rap verse! [C laughs] It was that intense.

C: God, that's so funny.

G: It was so good, yeah. Like, literally, "I'll be by your side, faster than the speed of light"!

C: Yeah. So real.

[beep]

G: Maybe Supernatural was making points.

C: Mm?

G: Probably not, though. [both laugh]

[beep]

C: [swallowing sound] Sorry, I'm drinking water. [G laughs]

G: I know, I can hear. [C laughs] [makes exaggerated swallowing sounds] [both laughing]

C: So...

G: See, I told you I am mean to you now!

C: [laughing] I don't think that was mean! But yeah-

G: It was funny, though.

C: It was funny, though. So...

#transcript

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writerbuddha · 1 year ago

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But @allronix, the sole reason why Luke didn't end up killing his father in anger, fear, hate and aggression, because follows Yoda and Obi-Wan's guidance. I wrote about this in detail:

That's the whole point of the Original Trilogy: Luke Skywalker succeeds where Anakin Skywalker failed in the Prequels and by doing so, he saves his father by not falling to the dark side, understanding and following Yoda's teachings.

Your interpretations are generally centering around this theme: “loyalty to and love for impersonal, faceless, cold institutions versus loyalty to and love for flesh and blood people.” And in your reading, the younglings are taken from their families so they will be loyal to and they will love an institution, but not individual people, and the Force, which is defined by you in a way that is consistent with Knights of the Old Republic II but not with the six movies and the Clone Wars tv show. But I can't locate this theme in Star Wars.

Obi-Wan takes baby Luke to Tatooine to his uncle and aunt so he will be safe and hidden from Darth Vader and the Emperor, this is also very clear in Episode III. How this relates to the younglings being taken to the Jedi Temple very young, so they can be trained? And what supports the idea that Obi-Wan did this so Luke won't be loyal to his blood relations and can kill his own father without hesitation? Nor I can see, why Yoda would tell Obi-Wan, "To his family send him" if he wants Luke to have this "Order becomes Mother and Father" mentality and how his family raising him could be the best substitute to it? How this would help the alleged goal, to create a situation where "he has no one to love, nothing to lose, and his loyalty is only to the Force and the Order, then he will be the perfect weapon and tool to accomplish what needs to be accomplished for the good of the galaxy - dead Sith"? Unless we want to ascribe to the notion - but I won’t do that and frankly, I am pretty confident that this is not what you suggest - that there is a kind of loyalty, care, affection, warmth and love that is exclusive to individuals who are related by blood, this is not making sense to me.

Also, in Episode V, there is no sign of Yoda and Obi-Wan trying to instill this kind of mentality into Luke, or trying to bring forth the aforementioned situation. All what Yoda and Obi-Wan are saying is actually "You must finish your training, you're not ready, and you're walking into a trap, this is exactly what they want. You don't know what will happen, no one can foresee that, but it's damn sure that if you go now, without the proper training that you need to be able to defeat Vader and the Emperor, you risk everything your friends fight and suffer for. Everything depends on stopping Vader and the Emperor, so be patient. Think how you can serve them best. And if you honor what they fight for, a galaxy freed from the Empire, then yes, you stay, you train yourself to be able to save the galaxy, even if this might mean sacrificing them, at least for now." And Luke is like: "Yeah, yeah I know but I will go anyway."

And this is the intended narrative. I can't say, where and how it failed to execute Lucas' intention:

"It’s pivotal that Luke doesn’t have patience. He doesn’t want to finish his training. He’s being succumbed by his emotional feelings for his friends rather than the pratical feelings of “I’ve got to get this job done before I can actually save them. I can’t save them, really.” But he sort of takes the easy route, the arrogant route, the emotional but least practical route, which is to say, “I’m just going to go off and do this without thinking too much.” And the result is that he fails and doesn’t do well for Han Solo or himself."- George Lucas

"It’s the motif that needs to be in the picture, but it’s one of those things that just in terms of storytelling was very risky because basically he screws up, and everything turns bad. And it’s because of that decision that Luke made on [Dagobah] to say “I know I’m not ready, but I’m going to go anyway.” - George Lucas

“Luke is making a critical mistake in his life of going after- to try to save his friends when he’s not ready. There’s a lot being taught here about patience and about waiting for the right moment to do whatever you’re going to do.” And “Luke is in the process of going into an extremely dangerous situation out of his compassion— Without the proper training, without the proper thought, without the proper foresight to figure out how he’s gonna get out of it. His impulses are right, but his methodology is wrong.” - George Lucas

I assume - and I apologize in advance if I’m wrong - your reading has its origins in the idea that blood relations and personal relationships are falling under the definition of "attachment", forbidden for a Jedi Knight. But this has simply no basis: there is no real reason to believe that Jedi Knights are against familial bonds and in Clone Wars, we actually see twin sister Jedi Masters. In Legends, there are also many Jedi Knights who are actually related by blood. The idea that emotional component of the blood relationship is something that the Jedi frown upon is also not holding up, as we can clearly see that the parent-child bond is replicated in the bond between the Jedi Master and the Padawan, and whenever a Jedi Knight describes their relationship to their master, they say, they were the closest to or like a parent to them. Even if one resorts to the glossary of modern psychology, we find that “attachment” is not synonymous with love, it’s not the descriptor of parent-child relationships, and it’s clear that Jedi Knights are forming the discriminated, preferential intimate relationships, involving receiving and giving love, affection, comfort, protection called “attachments” in Western psychology.

So, I'm confused, what supports the interpretation you proposed? Where it is evidenced in the source material? And how that interpretation takes compassion versus attachment into account?

As for your fic, I didn't read it, but someday I would love to - It would certainly help me to get more familiar with your perspective on the Force. It seems to me that you shaped your Force into an entity of cosmic horror, which seems to be Knights of the Old Republic cosmology...?

What pisses me off sometimes is that many of the people in this fandom already understand attachment but just choose to not use that understanding for the Jedi.

Like. If you weren’t completely confused by Shuri’s arc in the new Black Panther you understand attachment.

If you understood why elenore let chidi leave in the finale of the good place, you understand attachment.

In fact I can think of like eight super hero movies where attachment (and learning to let go of it) is the KEY conflict.

Attachment is not a hard concept to grasp at all. “Letting go” is NEVER portrayed as a bad thing in media. Like. Never. Especially when it’s about letting go of a loved one who died instead of getting revenge.

When people watch a super hero movie and the super hero starts acting like a villain and a side character goes “you’ve got to let her go” I never find paragraphs on tumblr about how the hero should have kept acting like a villain and that side character was the real bad guy.

It’s just that the Jedi don’t struggle with it. The Jedi already practice attachment. They’re already at peace. And since Anakin has been a Jedi for so long and has given no real indication of struggling (I mean they don’t know about his secret wife), they just tell him to practice attachment and think that’s enough. Bc he should already know.

And when people say they shouldn’t have expected this of Anakin bc he wasn’t raised a Jedi… the Jedi are not the only ones who don’t act on attachment. The first person to explain attachment in the movies is Shimi Skywalker. She lets Anakin go and live a better life bc she is not attached to him. She tells him to not look back. This is the woman who raised Anakin. He was raised in a no-attachment household. He has no excuse. He was always taught about attachment. He knew what he was doing was wrong. He did it anyway.

Anakin was not confused by attachment. And neither is the audience really. There are so many stories about how attachment is bad, Lucas just calls it by its name. People choose not to like the Jedi bc they don’t find them interesting. Which is fine I suppose, but if you don’t like the Jedi bc the sith aesthetic is more your speed, just say that. Stop pretending you don’t understand a very common moral conflict.

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faelapis · 3 years ago

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i think one of the most frustrating things about the killing eve finale is that i’m someone who likes challenging art, complicated and intentionally unsatisfying stories, ambiguity, defying expectations, etc etc. yknow - storytelling snobbery. i’m all in. i wouldn't be the steven universe defender if it didn't challenge its audience.

but killing eve ain’t it.

not only because it doesn’t have clear themes or a particular artfulness to prop up that kind of storytelling, but also because it’s not even interestingly absurd.

you can combine high and low art in interesting, even campy ways to illustrate absurdity. i am an american psycho enjoyer.

heck, you “can” do whatever you want, but high art claims of “oh this is just Too Challenging for our audience, they wanted a simple happy disney ending but our show is just too sophisticated for that” isn’t a get out of jail free card. sure, you can smugly assert that anything that the viewer disagrees with is by default challenging, but a challenge to WHAT? what is the purpose of this challenge?

in a show that’s changed showrunners every season, do you really expect me to believe that there’s a grand purpose to all of this that everyone else are just too stupid to understand? is it just to say that the bad ladies are bad and so don’t get a happy ending? because that’s not challenging, it’s expected. it’s mainstream. it’s pretty boring.

if the show embraced its own hilariously thin and meaningless plot by completely omitting the twelve from its own finale, that would actually be absurd in a somewhat clever way. it would illustrate that this whole quest to take them down was eve’s pointless heterosexual denial to have a “good reason“ to find villanelle. in a meta sense, it would make the twelve intentionally pointless. the whole show was really just about these two, and the quest to take down the twelve is just eve trying to make sense of her own feelings and desires without acknowledging the real reason she’s doing all of this. a white whale as a distraction.

and for most of the finale, i actually thought they might go there. villanelle lampshading eve’s obsession with the twelve, eve implicitly aconowledging that she’s really just here for villanelle with the way she said “you know why i’m here”... it could’ve made for an intentionally absurd finale to completely forget the twelve from that point on. just have this surreal happy camper character-focused episode where the gals are just happy in love and the plot is totally dropped. it'd be a charming and clever way to “own” that your plot kinda sucked and everyone are just here for the characters.

if it had ended like that, i would’ve respected how little the twelve mattered. it would’ve felt self-aware and suitably silly in a show that is often a hot mess with too many moving pieces for its own good. not everyone would’ve liked it, but if the goal was to challenge, maybe it could’ve challenged the audience expectation that the plot must be Literal rather than metaphorical, and that “bad guys” must get their comeuppance. it would’ve been something. it could’ve meant something, even outside stan twitter shipping.

but no. the finale is not secretly deep. its just ass. it truly pains me to admit this, as a contrarian nerd who hates popular fandom takes where everything must be safe rather than challenging to be “good”, but stan twitter is 100% correct here. the twelve are only interesting as a commentary on eve's obsessive psyche. the Literal death of villanelle after eve believes they are gone ruins that psychological angle. this is also why the idea of a spinoff without eve falls apart conceptually. it all becomes very literal, and very boring. none of this meant anything. it just hurt. eve’s pain is not a rebirth - it is just pain.

#killing eve #not su /#had a rant in me and it felt fitting for this blog because it goes against a lot of my usual pov on challenging media #killing eve spoilers #ke season 4

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shortpplfedup · 3 years ago

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Anatomy of a Scene Fantasy of love, or how to get your crush to call you 'honey' a bunch of times and say you're pretty

In which Pat and Pran allow themselves a moment of fantasy.

Bad Buddy, Episode 3 Director: Backaof Noppharnach Chaiwimol Writers: Pratchaya Thavornthummarut, Bee Pongset Laksamipong, Best Kittisak Kongka Cast: Ohm Pawat Chittsawangdee (Pat) and Nanon Korapat Kirdpan (Pran)

Nobody is around, you can talk to me nicely...You didn’t reply to my messages. You weren’t at your dorm. That’s why I’m here...Can’t we just chitchat? Are you as hard on your other friends as you are on me?...Sorry, I’m not your friend...

You can’t just sit and imagine it. You must use someone who actually uses it. Let’s do this. Let’s say we’re friends...Lovers then. To get different perspectives. Let’s say I’m an Engineering hot guy and you’re an Architecture hot girl. We’re in a relationship. And…seeking shelter from the rain and waiting to get on a bus...Why am I a girl? You are.Why so picky? Let’s say we’re both hot guys and we’re boyfriends. You’re the husband and I’m the wife. Okay?You’re such a masculine wife.

Honey, I’m getting wet. It’s raining so heavily. Gosh! People can see through my shirt. What am I going to do, honey? There’s a bus stop. Should we use it as a shelter?The roof should be around this high and curved. It will help keep the rain out.Honey, the rain just stopped but it’s sunny now. My skin is burnt.We should have a solar cell too. It will generate power to use at night. For the fans, the CCTV, and the electronic signs.Honey, you only care about the bus stop. You don’t care about me. I’m sulky now.Here’s a corpse flower for someone so pretty.Jackass! So there’re flowers growing around this bus stop too?It’s an eco bus stop. Flowers are easy on the eyes and they keep people company while waiting for the bus.Who will take care of them?Well…we will have a faucet here and the drainpipe will be directed to the flowers. That’s how we water them.

Do you like it? The new bus stop.I do. I’m just not sure if they will do too.They will. Because I do. My honey is so smart.Stop already. You’re giving me goosebumps.My booboo is the best.

This is a long one so I've excerpted the dialogue, but I wanted to keep the whole thing because there's so much here. There's the subversion of gay media and BL tropes around masculinity and femininity, commentary on said tropes, even a digression on empathy and practical design (my specific field of nerdery so I had fun), all couched within a love fantasy roleplay that these two desperately wish could be real. Pat is trying to make up for his misdeeds here. He should have put a stop to his friends' bullying of Wai at the bar that led to all this, but he's lowkey jealous of Wai being so close to Pran, even if that's not totally obvious yet. Now Pran's stressed out and mad at him so he's gotta fix it somehow.

These two care SO MUCH for each other. Their parents, despite their best efforts, weren't able to poison them against each other; they just simply like each other. And when they're vibing like this, whether it's bickering or playing or just hanging out and being with each other...it's so beautiful. It's also a dangerous game of gay chicken (LOVE this term) they're playing here, with Pat repeatedly putting a toe in the water only to pull it back, leaving Pran hot and bothered but also confused as hell, almost daring Pran to do something about it. This energy is exactly why I now completely understand how we arrive at the bet they make in the trailer. They both feel the pull towards each other, but nobody want to 'lose' by being the first to admit it.

On a meta level, Aof is definitely taking the BL audience to task a little bit here, gently chiding about expectations of strict masc/fem gender roles and the weird fetishisation of a 'top/bottom' dynamic that goes along with that (imagine there are people who won't watch this fantastic show because they can't tell which character is the 'top' and which is the 'bottom'...weirdos). By having Pat the Brick House play the 'wife' in this little scenario, he's almost saying 'See how ridiculous this all is? Anybody can be anything they want.' I like that a lot.

#anatomy of a scene series #bad buddy #bad buddy series #on art

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lonelier-version-of-you · 3 years ago

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That was a pretty good episode. Certainly much better than last week. How much of this was the presence of Russ, and how much was the fact that the episode was written by Andy Bayliss (who is a much better writer than Davey Jones... sorry to Davey Jones, but he’s just not that good), I don’t know, but either way it was a great improvement.

Out of respect, I shall put the weekly Henruss commentary aside for a moment in order to talk about Jac.

So. Jac Naylor is terminally ill. We knew it from the spoilers, of course, but it’s still terribly depressing.

Both Jac as a character and Rosie Marcel as an actress deserve so much better than this. Rosie has suffered through so much for the show, including pain that the producers themselves have put her through - I still can’t believe the idea of doing a breakdown storyline for Jac based off Rosie’s own real life breakdown was considered, let alone that it actually happened. And Jac? The writers have put her through so much trauma over the years. She’s been shot, experimented on, had her sister die, been sectioned, and that’s just a few examples. How is it remotely satisfactory or a good ending to kill her off after putting her through all that?

The worst part is that for months after bringing her back and revealing she had a brain tumour, the show basically ignored her. There were a good few months where there was more focus on Amelia’s brain tumour than Jac’s, and Amelia is a minor recurring character. It took until there were less than 15 episodes left for Jac to start getting any focus at all. What the hell, Holby? You’re killing off your most iconic and popular character and you still took until the last second to start caring about her? Yikes.

Do they think they’re doing something clever or original here, in killing off Jac to symbolise the end of the show? Because they’re not. For characters like Jac, in fact, tragedy is an incredibly common end. She’s gender non-conforming, mentally ill, an abuse survivor, an implicitly queer woman. Seeing her end the show alive and happy would be far more original than making every moment of her life, through to the very end, nothing but a tragedy.

And no, Holby, giving a mentally ill, abuse survivor, queer man a happy ending does not make up for what you’re doing to Jac. It just doesn’t. I’m happy Henrik’s coming out and finding love, I really, truly am. But if anything, giving Henrik a happy ending and Jac a tragic one just comes across as misogynistic.

(Having said that, their idea of a happy ending for Jac now is probably pairing her off with Fletch anyway. Even though neither Rosie Marcel nor Alex Walkinshaw like the pairing, and the characters decided they were better off as friends ages ago. :/)

Wasn’t there literally an interview with some old producers or something where they said the plan was always for Jac to eventually get a happy ending? Sometimes... sticking to your original plans... is better, Holby.

Jac, I’m sorry the writers are treating you like this. And I feel even sorrier for Rosie Marcel herself.

Now that that’s over with: I bet Andy Bayliss, writer of the most queer-coded Johnrik episodes/scenes, must have pumped his fist in the air upon learning that Henrik was getting an actual romance with a man and he would get to write for it. Their scenes tonight certainly delivered!

I wasn’t expecting more than two or three scenes, since they weren’t mentioned in the DS spoilers, so I’m satisfied with what we got. It was also some nice lighthearted romcom fun, before we get some presumably more serious stuff with Billie’s secret next week.

The “Russ is creepy and manipulative” crowd were, I imagine, dismayed to find out that Russ is actually so good-natured he felt guilty for eating someone else’s salad. Me, I found it adorable. (Also, I’m still sticking with my headcanon that Billie started making Russ’s lunches because Russ has executive dysfunction and was always forgetting to bring his own, and she wanted to make sure he didn’t forget. Also possible that Ami used to make Russ’s lunches, for the same reason, and Billie felt a need to continue her dad’s tradition. Which is... sweet but sad.)

I did feel sorry for Henrik, though. The poor man and his sensory issues. I hope he managed to find something to eat somewhere, even if he just got himself something from the vending machine.

Russ is very lucky Henrik fancies him. I think Henrik would probably be quite bitter if anyone else took his lunch. He certainly wouldn’t tolerate them talking with their mouths full!

And HENRIK OFFERING TO MAKE RUSS’S LUNCH OMG. That was SO CUTE. And then when he was looking in the mirror and adjusting his shirt and tie to impress Russ!! Henrik with a crush is always the cutest thing ever.

Lots of mentions of Billie tonight, presumably to remind everyone she exists for her re-appearance next week. Also basically confirmation that they made Russ an overprotective dad to contrast with Henrik not having been in his kid’s life at all.

Elsewhere: Will Fletch Stay Or Will He Go? Does anyone care? I don’t, really. He bores me. I can’t hate him, he’s just bland. He should’ve left a few months after Raf’s exit IMO.

Amelia is getting better! I’m happy for her. Genuinely expected her to die either way.

Sacha and Dom are doing research together, I guess. Good for them.

And poor, poor Nicky. My heart is breaking for her. The last few scenes tonight were really powerful - Belinda Owusu and Rosie Marcel are both such brilliant actresses.

#Holby City #Jac Naylor #Henrik Hanssen #Russell Faber #Henruss #Holby City spoilers #tw;abuse mention

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sophieakatz · 3 years ago

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Thursday Thoughts: Marvel What If’s Fridging Problem

This blog post contains spoilers for the first seven episodes of Marvel What If and also some key plot points from the Ant-Man movies.

Time… Space… Reality… It’s more than a linear path. It’s a prism of endless possibility…

…but women leading happy, healthy lives, without a man’s feelings being the most important thing in her world? Nah, that’s too impossible!

I mentioned last week in my post about the animated Marvel series What If…? that this show has a fridging problem. If you’ve been following me for a while, you may remember that I’ve talked about the Marvel Cinematic Universe and the “fridged woman” trope before, in my Thursday Thoughts about Ant-Man and the Wasp, but let me summarize:

“Fridging” is a story trope in which a (male) hero’s (female) loved one is killed in order to motivate the hero to take action. This trope is common to superhero comics and films. The problem with this trope is that the fridged woman is more plot device than character. She exists to die; the male character’s emotions are more important than her life.

Now, Ant-Man and the Wasp provides a fascinating commentary on its trope. In the previous Ant-Man movie, Janet Van Dyne was a fridged woman – her only purpose in the film was to die so that Hank Pym would be motivated by his grief to choose Scott to be Ant-Man instead of his daughter, Hope. But Wasp gives Janet the chance to unfridge herself. She’s not only alive, but she plays an active role in her own rescue, and she is also essential to solving all the other conflicts in the movie.

If you’ve seen episodes three and five of What If, then you probably know what I’m going to say next.

THEY RE-FRIDGED JANET VAN DYNE!!! TWICE!!! AND HER DAUGHTER, TOO!!!

*takes a deep breath*

*lets it out again*

In Episode Three, “What If… the World Lost Its Mightiest Heroes?” we follow Nick Fury on the worst week of his life. Apparently, sometime before this episode began, Hope Van Dyne became a SHIELD agent and died on one of their missions. We don’t get to see this; we only learn that this happened when Hank Pym and Loki-disguised-as-Fury argue over Hope’s gravestone. Hope’s death drove Hank over the edge of despair, since he already blamed SHIELD for the death of his wife, and so he decided to ruin Nick Fury’s life by murdering the candidates for the Avengers Initiative.

We never learn why Hope decided to join SHIELD or what the mission she went on meant to her. What Hope felt or wanted does not matter to this story. Hank’s feelings matter instead.

Also, as if it wasn’t enough to fridge the Van Dyne women, there’s arguably one other fridged woman in this story. Remember how I said that this is the worst week of Nick Fury’s life? Everyone who dies in this episode dies because it will hurt Fury; they are plot devices in his story instead of the heroes of their own story. This includes Natasha Romanoff. In-universe, Hank Pym fridges her in hopes of hurting Nick Fury.

I was pretty mad about this. But at the time, I didn’t think it would get any worse.

Episode Five pits the Avengers against a zombie apocalypse. Now, would anyone like to guess the origin of this apocalypse? Who is the first victim of the zombie plague?

JANET. VAN. DYNE.

Because the writers of this show can’t help but shove her back in the fridge. And they can’t help but kill off all the women in this episode, too.

Now, I know what you’re going to say. “Everyone’s death is free game in this episode! That’s the point of the whole zombie apocalypse thing!” And, sure, you’re right. Pretty much everyone dies, and if you view this episode in isolation, there’s nothing wrong with that.

But I’m not talking about viewing this episode as an isolated incident. I’m looking at it as a part of a trend, and in this trend, superhero writers fridge their female characters. In this episode, the axed women include Sharon Carter, Okoye, and, once again, HOPE VAN DYNE.

I admit that Hope gets a great speech about her emotions and motivations before she sacrifices herself. She steps up and demands the right to be the hero of her own story. However, her death is ultimately framed as an emotional motivator for Peter – her final words are to tell Peter to “keep smiling.” Later, we get a second round of Hope’s death being about a man’s feelings, when Scott-in-the-jar sees and reacts to her giant zombie form, and Peter comforts him.

(Tell me, What If, why is it possible for Scott Lang to survive as a head in a jar, but not possible for any woman to survive this episode?)

I don’t want to spend too much time on this episode, but we could also talk about Wanda Maximoff. We don’t know what she wants or how she feels, since she’s, you know, a zombie. But her zombification provides Vision’s motivation for all the villainous decisions he makes in this episode. The show also makes a point of saying that zombie-Wanda is just too darn powerful, and so there’s no way for Vision to cure her like he cured Scott-in-a-jar. I guess fridged women just can’t get a miraculous cure.

Actually, wait – let’s talk a little more about this show’s claim that there’s no miraculous way to save a fridged woman.

Episode Four, “What If… Doctor Strange Lost His Heart Instead of His Hands?” is basically “Fridged Woman: The Episode.” It is stated in dialogue that Dr. Christine Palmer must die because her death motivates Strange to become a sorcerer. The whole point of the episode is that Strange cannot save her and that he is wrong to try. If Christine doesn’t die, then the universe ends.

This tells me that the writers of this show know what they’re doing. They know what fridging is. They can use the trope and even provide meta-commentary on it. But they don’t seem to have any interest in moving beyond it, even though they could.

Because here’s the thing – I know how Strange could have saved Christine. The Ancient One says that Christine’s death is the only reason why Strange seeks out the mystic arts… but that’s not true. We all know that’s not true. Even the title of this episode knows that that’s not true. Strange would be motivated to seek out the mystic arts if he lost his hands.

What if the Doctor Strange of this reality went back in time, ruined his relationship with Christine so she wouldn’t want to go with him that night, and got himself horrifically injured in the car crash? He’d be prioritizing her life over his own, making sure that she got to live her own life, and he would preserve the timeline by creating the events of the canon movie.

It could have happened. This show is supposed to be a prism of endless possibility. It could be a show about moving beyond tired tropes and exploring new options. But instead, What If doubles down on the idea that the woman must die.

At this point, you might say, “Okay, Sophie, but not every episode of What If fridges its women! Did you forget that the very first episode of this show is all about Peggy Carter?”

Here’s the thing: even when the women live, their feelings matter less to the plot than the men’s.

If you want to hear about that, come back next week. This Thursday Thoughts is way too long, and I need a break.

Be good to yourself, be kind to each other, and you’ll hear from me again soon!

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commentaryvorg · 3 years ago

Text

Digimon Data Squad Dub Comparison Episode 37 - The Battle With Belphemon

This is a companion to my commentary on the original Japanese Digimon Savers! Reading my commentary on the original version of this episode (which you can find here) is recommended before reading this dub comparison.

Original name ~ Dubbed name

Masaru Daimon ~ Marcus Damon

Yoshino Fujieda ~ Yoshino “Yoshi” Fujieda

Tohma H. Norstein ~ Thomas H. Norstein

Ikuto Noguchi ~ Keenan Crier

Sayuri Daimon ~ Sarah Damon

Professor Suguru Daimon ~ Doctor Spencer Damon

Yukidarumon ~ Frigimon

BanchouLeomon ~ BanchoLeomon

[Since several characters share the same name between the original and the dub, quotes from the dub will always be in italics, while quotes from the original will not, in order to distinguish them.]

Kurata’s doing the recap again! I wouldn’t have complained for once if it was Thomas, thanks to what happened last episode, but I’m not saying no to taking one of the few remaining opportunities for some more Kurata recapping.

Recap Kurata: “I fused myself with Belphemon, and now Thomas will pay for his deceitfulness!”

He’s still so mad about the betrayal even in the recap, heh.

Masaru: “I want to save my friends.”

~~~~~

Marcus: “I can’t take any more of this!”

This line from a rerun of the final scene of episode 36 was inexplicably a different line in the original episode 37, but the dub kept it as the correct episode 36 line it was supposed to be.

Marcus: “I don’t know what trouble is waiting for me out there, but I do know, I have to try to help my friends… before it’s too late!”

WAIT, never mind, this part is different to how it was in the dub of episode 36. Okay, so I guess the dub decided to keep the fact that this scene rerun is weirdly inconsistent with how it went in the previous episode, but do it in a different way? What the actual hell. It’s not even that they completely re-translated and rewrote this whole bit for this episode, because the “I can’t take any more of this!” line really is the line from episode 36, I’m pretty sure. Bizarre.

Did… did Belphemon read out the title card? I can only assume that’s him, because it’s deep and growly but I don’t recognise it. Or maybe it’s Ravemon, actually, hm. (Having checked both their voices from later in the episode: yeah, it's Ravemon.) Unusual to have it be a character we haven’t heard speak yet, though.

Marcus: “Damn that Kurata! I’ll never forgive him for this!”

~~~~~

Marcus: “Kurata! What have you done?!”

Nothing any worse than what ShineGreymon did, really, Marcus, since all you’re looking at is the destruction in the city. Like, at this point one would kind of expect the city to get pretty destroyed; you can marvel at the scale of it, but not really at the fact that it happened at all.

Masaru: “Agumon! Let’s fight together!”

~~~~~

Marcus: “Agumon… it looks like we may be too late…!”

Marcus is apparently legitimately afraid that he might get there and find his friends… already dead, I guess? Which is kind of fun but also really not something Marcus should be letting himself acknowledge on any level. Where’s that stubborn optimism and refusal to accept bad outcomes, especially when they’re still only a possibility?

Masaru: “Even though you’re a Digiegg right now, our feelings are the same! Right, Agumon?”

~~~~~

Marcus: “But as soon as you hatch from that Digiegg, we’re gonna make Kurata pay! If that’s not incentive, what is?!”

It’s weird that Marcus is taking this angle of feeling like he almost has to bribe Agumon into deciding to hatch from the egg with the incentive of revenge against Kurata. As if he feels like the problem isn’t that Agumon can’t hatch, but that he just doesn’t want to because he’s in a sulk with Marcus over what happened and needs to be persuaded out of it. That’s… really not it? Very different vibe from Masaru insisting that their feelings are the same (which of course they would be, if Agumon were at all conscious in there in any way).

Ikuto: “Did they come to help Kurata?”

~~~~~

Keenan: “They must have come to help Kurata!”

Ikuto said this as a question – he was assuming, but he wasn’t entirely sure and was probably at least hoping the answer might be no. Keenan just sounds certain of it.

Yoshino: “Tohma! Did you finish the stuff you had to do?”

~~~~~

Yoshi: “So, then. Are you back for good?”

It seems that, unlike Yoshino, Yoshi did not believe all along that Thomas hadn’t really betrayed them. Not only does she not express awareness of “stuff he had to do”, the fact that she’s asking him if he’s “back for good” suggests she’s still thinking he might change his mind again and go back to siding with Kurata. Meaning, she’s very likely to have genuinely thought he was siding with Kurata until now. I am sad about this; I really liked this small understated moment showing that Yoshino got it.

Thomas: “Yes.”

Thomas answering Yoshi’s question in the affirmative makes it sound like he did just change his mind, rather than the truth that he was really never not “back” in the first place, which would require pointing out that she’s asking the wrong question.

Yoshino: “Give me a week’s worth of Usagiya’s finest bean jam rice cakes. Then I’ll forgive you.”

~~~~~

Yoshi: “Well, maybe if you buy me a box of manju… then I *might* forgive you.”

Instead of having Yoshi’s free-food request be some Japanese thing the audience wouldn’t be familiar with, they picked a Japanese thing the audience would actually know, referencing the manju episode, which is neat. Come on, though, Yoshi, only one box? That’s nothing next to Yoshino’s a week’s worth. Thomas is loaded, you can swindle more off him than just one.

(The added “might” potentially makes her sound less willing to forgive him, but I can also read it as “or maybe I’ll make you buy me more food after that” opportunism, which would be very her.)

Kurata: “How dare you have the gall to betray me! Tohma Norstein!”

~~~~~

Kurata: “Thomas. I treated you like a son. And you turned on me.”

You… really didn’t. Do most dads put bombs around their daughters’ necks?

Because the dub’s usually good at Kurata, I want to say this is meant to be Kurata’s twisted logic insisting that he’s so great that he really did treat Thomas that well. But… that doesn’t entirely align with the kind of irrational stuff Kurata usually spouts to talk himself up. That’s more along the lines of being powerful, not being a kind and caring person. And especially given his beef with Spencer and the fact that Spencer was, knowing him, likely to have mentioned his son a fair bit around his assistant, I don’t think Kurata would want to associate himself with that kind of image.

Thomas: “Well, too bad!”

Damn. Just roast him, Thomas. He gives no fricks about Kurata attempting to make this into a sob story. Boo hoo, Kurata, cry us a river.

(Hm, one aspect of Kurata I can kind of see being touched on with his line up there is his tendency to paint himself as a huge tragic victim; maybe we can pretend that’s what’s going on in his head there. Not convinced it’s on purpose, but. Especially as he’s gone so god complex by now that he wouldn’t want to think about being a victim at all.)

Tohma: “You hated the Digimon with such intensity, and yet you fused with Belphemon, who is also a Digimon!”

MirageGaogamon: “What a fool.”

~~~~~

Thomas: “I find it ironic that someone who despises Digimon as much as you has decided to fuse himself with one to get what he wants.”

MirageGaogamon: “I find it insulting.”

I think I prefer the dub here? It can read in the original like Tohma is arguing that Kurata’s actions don’t make sense, when actually they do make a lot of sense if you understand his psychology. Thomas meanwhile isn’t arguing that and is simply saying it’s ironic that Kurata’s doing this, which it is. I also enjoy MirageGaogamon’s addition, which feels more like a personal opinion of his on this matter, as a Digimon himself.

Kurata: “We’ll soon find out which of us is the real fool.”

~~~~~

Kurata: “Oh? Well, soon the both of you are going to find it harmful!”

Slightly different tone to Kurata’s response here. Instead of effectively justifying to himself “it’s not foolish, it’s totally worth it if it makes me more powerful than anyone else”, it reads more like a “shut up, if I lash out at you both then I don’t have to think about the fact that you might have a point”.

Kurata: “Now that I’m fused with Belphemon, I’ve become the ultimate existence who has far surpassed both human and Digimon!”

~~~~~

Kurata: “Now that I have all the power of Belphemon, I will be able to take over both the human and the Digital World, and nothing can stop me!”

I feel like the dub’s somewhat missing the point by having Kurata focus on his ostensible goal of taking over both worlds here. What’s really going on with him is his overwhelming fanatical desire to feel powerful and important, and subjugating both worlds is really just a means to that end, an excuse to exert that kind of power. Having him call himself the ultimate existence gets a lot more to the heart of what’s going on in his head right now.

Tohma: (He has more power than us. Drawing this out gives us a disadvantage.)

~~~~~

Thomas: (He has more power than all of us combined. Attacking over and over again is useless!)

Slight change to Thomas’s strategy thoughts here. On the one hand, maybe the dubbers are thinking about the fact that this fight really is going to go on for two whole episodes and wanted to change it to something that doesn’t contradict what’s going to happen… but the fight is also mostly going to involve a lot of attacking over and over, so, uh.

I spent the long dramatic lead-in to Marcus punching Thomas going “they’re gonna flash-cut it aren’t theyyyyy…” and yeah, they sure did. Sigh.

There’s a commercial break as Marcus and Thomas silently stare at each other for a long moment after the punch. It comes across weirdly like it’s building an expectation of them continuing to fight, when really they’re in the process of making up, and just doing it in a drawn-out dramatic way.

Tohma: “They don’t shake. They don’t waver. And they don’t change.”

~~~~~

Thomas: “Nice punch. Real strong. Like our bond.”

Thomas is being a little less ridiculous and melodramatic about it than Tohma, but this does give a similar kind of feel, as well as the acknowledgement that he still considers Marcus a friend.

Tohma: “That’s why your fists leave such an impact on the heart.”

~~~~~

Thomas: “I’m sorry, Marcus, I had to pretend so I could gain Kurata’s trust. Forgive me?”

Marcus: “Yeah.”

Don’t like that they added this, though! What I really loved about their making-up in the original was that Masaru didn’t need Tohma to explain himself in order to be satisfied. He saw Tohma fighting on their side, and that was all he needed to figure out that Tohma had really always been on their side all along. Given that, he doesn’t even care about why this happened, just so long as Tohma had never betrayed them. He got in that one punch to express his anger about the apparent betrayal, and that was all he needed to settle the score. Men don’t need words!

But of course the dub doesn’t understand any of Masaru’s ridiculously straightforward manliness and felt like this make-up was lacking without Thomas explaining things, so they added it, making Marcus and Thomas into more like normal people rather than ridiculous stubborn doofuses. I am sad.

Tohma: “Kurata fused himself with Belphemon. He’s a tough one.”

Masaru: “Fine by me! I’ll kick his ass!”

~~~~~

Thomas: “Kurata has fused himself with Belphemon. It looks bad.”

Marcus: “No, that’s good! Because it’s fightin’ time!”

I like the dub’s version drawing added attention to the contrast in tone between the two. This development is bad? No, it’s good, because it means they can fight Kurata!

Rosemon: “This is considered making up?”

Yoshino: “Men are idiots.”

This delightful little exchange from the original is completely cut out. Perhaps it’s because the dub decided to change Marcus and Thomas’s making up so that it actually does look mostly like a normal person’s idea of making up. (Hey, dub! The fact that it wasn’t a normal person’s idea of making up was literally the point, as shown here!)

But I’m not sure that’s it, because usually they’d just edit Yoshino and Rosemon’s comments to be about something else, if that were the case. I think this might have been cut because of an, uh, Issue with this episode and its Definitely A Straight Dude art style. Rosemon in this shot happened to have quite a lot of noticeable boobiness, and maybe they decided they wanted to cut that?

I’d say this is something they could edit, but unfortunately, the dub editors have already got their work cut out doing that for every single shot with Miki in it in this episode, because this art style sure did some things with her neckline. I very much appreciate the dub deciding to fix this legitimately annoying issue with the original and sympathise with all the extra work this gave their editors. Given how much of it they had to do, maybe they just didn’t have time to edit that shot of Rosemon as well and decided to cut it instead.

Kurata: “That sort of attack won’t even leave a scratch on me. *This* is the right way to attack!”

~~~~~

Kurata: “Those attacks of yours do nothing but annoy me, like a little bug. Maybe I should just squash you like one!”

On the one hand, Kurata making out his enemies to be tiny and insignificant like bugs is very in-character. On the other hand, I do lament the lack of the part where he says “This is the right way to attack!” and then literally just kicks MirageGaogamon, because Kurata actually doesn’t have the first clue how to attack without tapping into Belphemon’s instincts and yet still feels like his human-like flailing is the most powerful anyway just because of the body he’s in.

Kurata: “What’s the matter? Do you want me to crush you lying down like that?”

~~~~~

Kurata: “Hahaha! See what I mean? Reminds me of pulling wings off of flies when I was young.”

Yeesh. That’s disturbing. I suppose we shouldn’t be surprised that Kurata always had that sort of cruel streak in him… and yet, as much as this is some fun extra flavour, I don’t know if I actually like this? It makes it seem more like Kurata was always bound to end up being evil, rather than that it was really his experiences on the Digital World expedition combined with his cowardice and inability to admit to being wrong that made him evil.

Masaru: “The one who’s gonna get crushed here is you!”

~~~~~

Marcus: “So, you were always the same coward you are now!”

I really like this, though! Marcus taking the opportunity to make a point about how Kurata’s a coward, yes, good, that is exactly the point of Kurata’s character and I love that it’s being brought up here when it wasn’t in the original. This is a lot more interesting and relevant than the line Masaru had here, wow, amazing. Maybe that’s only possible because it’s less about Marcus and more about Kurata, really.

And I suppose, since Kurata definitely always was a coward, maybe that’s what the dub’s trying to get at with the pulling-wings-off-flies thing – that Kurata always had some form of that cowardice manifesting as a desire to exert power over other living things.

Masaru: “One more try!”

~~~~~

Marcus: “Thanks, dude!”

Marcus is thanking MirageGaogamon for saving him (from being flung into a building as a result of his utterly failed attempt to punch Kurata-Belphemon), which is not nearly as fun and stubborn and Masaru-ish as him immediately declaring he’s gonna try again.

This also means that Thomas telling him he can’t do this because he doesn’t have his partner wasn’t nearly as necessary, because Marcus may have learned his lesson and not been about to go again, anyway.

MirageGaogamon’s next attack plan features (in the dub only) an attack called Double Gale Claw, as opposed to the usual plain old Gale Claw. Feels weird that he’d decide to give a variant on one of his attacks a different name to the point of calling it differently, but then Digimon calling their attacks is always kind of silly in the first place, so.

Kurata: “Let me kill you instantly and bring you peace!”

~~~~~

Kurata: “Look. Why not take a rest for a while. A long while!”

Of course they couldn’t keep the part where Kurata straight-up says he’s going to kill MirageGaogamon, and instead it becomes some very vague implication of the same.

Kurata: “Why don’t you understand that no matter how large your numbers, the end result will be the same?”

~~~~~

Kurata: “When will you finally understand? You can’t win!”

Kurata’s dub line here is simpler and somewhat misses the point that he’s so up himself that he’s convinced that even when he’s outnumbered he’s obviously going to win. But that’s actually lip-flap’s fault; despite the wordiness of Kurata’s original line, Belphemon’s mouth doesn’t move nearly as much as it should during it, resulting in a much shorter line when the dub religiously endeavoured to match the lip-flap like they always do.

Kurata: “Magnificent! This power and this body! That’s right. I am the ultimate existence that has exceeded both human and Digimon!”

~~~~~

Kurata: “Such fun! I’m so strong! Yes… my power has exceeded both Digimon and humans.”

This is the second time in this episode that original-Kurata gives this “ultimate existence” line, which maybe explains why the dub felt the need to change the earlier instance of it to something else. But their take on it here is… lukewarm. “I’m so strong” is a pretty basic way for him to express that sentiment, and he’s not quite calling himself the ultimate existence. It sounds a lot less like he’s revelling in this as much as he does in the original. It’s there in his delivery, too; I didn’t feel like his last sentence there deserved an exclamation mark.

Masaru: “You guys…”

~~~~~

Marcus: “Don’t quit!”

Masaru’s expressing worry about his friends getting hurt and overwhelmed, which is a different tone from Marcus just firmly telling them not to stop fighting.

Kurata: “It’s because you oppose me that vermin like yourselves end up like this!”

~~~~~

Kurata: “Had I realised it was this entertaining, I would have fused with a Digimon years ago!”

I suppose Kurata’s dub line sort of gets across a relevant point that he’s finding being Belphemon entertaining, what with all the power he can exert. I doubt he would have found it so entertaining years ago when he didn’t have such a huge god complex and his fear of Digimon was a lot closer to the surface, but then, it’s also fair he wouldn’t consciously realise that in his state.

But I think I preferred the original line’s completely different point of showing that Kurata’s so wrapped up in his power trip by now that he’s not even really thinking of Digimon as “vermin” for the same reasons he did in the first place any more. They’re vermin now because they’re stupid enough to think he might not be all-powerful, not because they’re vicious and scary, nope, they definitely don’t scare him at all.

Ikuto: “Don’t… kill any more of my friends!”

~~~~~

Keenan: “Kurata! Leave friends alone!”

Sighhh, I guess that’s as close as we can get to getting across the point of his original line since we’re not allowed to use the word “kill”. I really liked how horribly direct Ikuto was about it in the original, though. This is also less of a response to what Kurata was saying in the dub, since he wasn’t just calling Ikuto’s friends “vermin”.

Kurata: “You think Digimon are your friends?” [he laughs] “Vermin as friends… What a ridiculous notion!”

~~~~~

Kurata: “You really think Digimon are your friends? Ha! They are nothing but vermin! They don’t need friends, they need exterminators!”

Okay, well at least now the dub’s caught up with the vermin line, but – it sounds like Kurata still only thinks of them as vermin in the sense that they’re dangerous and need exterminating, not that they’re insignificant and pathetic and stupid to try and defy him.

Kurata: “As you are well aware, all of the Digimon I’ve killed, those friends of yours, have provided the energy to revive this Belphemon. In other words, they were the provisions that helped grant my ambitions!

~~~~~

Kurata: “And I would know, since I’ve exterminated so many Digimon. Of course, no-one can accuse me of not recycling, since I did use their digital energy to awaken Belphemon. So I guess I owe them some thanks for allowing me to cause so much destruction!”

This is basically the same content getting across, but the way Kurata words it in the dub is a lot more casual and cartoony. Like, I really don’t think now is the time to make a joke about recycling, guys – nor does it feel entirely like he’d ever think he ought to thank them. This speech should be making you despise Kurata for his awfulness even more than you already do, and I feel like the dub’s watered that effect down a bit.

Kurata: “Their existence alone is worthless, and I have given that existence an important duty! I find no reason for you to hate me. Instead, you should be thanking me!”

~~~~~

Kurata: “Then again, they should probably thank *me*, for putting an end to their miserable existence. Just useless bits of data without feelings or signs of life.”

The fact that he only thinks they should be grateful for him killing them, and not putting them to use, is missing the point a bit, as is him continuing to argue that they’re totally not really people. Kurata’s way past all that stuff by now; at this point, the only thing he cares about is how great and all-powerful he totally is, and literally everything, including his view of the Digimon he’s killed, now revolves around making himself seem more important. The dub doesn’t seem to understand that. It’s a shame, when they’ve otherwise been so good at grasping Kurata’s psychology until now.

Yoshino: “That’s completely selfish of you!”

~~~~~

Yoshi: “What do you know about life? You’re the most heartless man I know!”

Yoshi’s rebuke to his speech gets changed, since the point of his speech was different and somewhat less about how ridiculously self-absorbed he’s become.

Ikuto: “You…! You know nothing!

~~~~~

Keenan: “She right! You don’t know anything, Kurata!”

It is a little bit of a shame that Keenan’s only coming forward with this idea that Kurata knows nothing because Yoshi already suggested something in that direction. I liked how in the original that concept was something Ikuto thought of and brought up entirely on his own.

Keenan: “Digimon live! They same as us!”

This is basically unchanged, but because Kurata’s speech was different, it’s more of an actual rebuttal to what Kurata was saying than it was in the original. Maybe that’s why the writers changed Kurata’s speech, but if so I don’t think they should have, because I feel that disconnect was on purpose. I liked that sense this scene had in the original that Kurata and Ikuto were really having two entirely separate conversations at each other, because neither of them was ever going to listen to and understand the other’s point of view.

Ikuto: “I know! Yukidarumon… She had a heart… a bigger heart than anybody else!”

~~~~~

Keenan: “That right! They just like humon! They have big hearts and feel love!”

Other than Keenan not mentioning Frigimon quite as soon as Ikuto did, it reads a little off to me that he begins this passionate speech about Digimon having hearts by framing it as “just like humans”. Keenan’s first experience of people who are kind and have hearts was with Digimon. He spent years thinking humans were heartless monsters and has only recently learned that’s not the case – he wouldn’t bring up humans as his initial example of creatures that have hearts.

Ikuto: “She raised me, even though I was human! She scolded me! She was gentle to me! She was very, very warm!”

~~~~~

Keenan: “I know for fact! Frigimon had bigger heart than anyone! She raised me even though I was humon. She keep me safe, and she loved me. She was my mother, and me her son.”

Aww, this is still cute. I like that they kept the “even though”, and that they removed the scolding part (though the image of her doing so is still there), because that’s not the best example of her parenthood. Slightly sad at the loss of “she was very warm”, because as silly as that is on a literal level I feel like that helps get across just how warm she was despite being made of snow – but, the replacement lines are also very sweet. She was his mother.

Ikuto: “I… pity you!”

~~~~~

Keenan: “They good. They friends…”

Really don’t like that they got rid of this! I loved how Ikuto had become capable of seeing just how pathetic Kurata really is, and that he’d moved on from hating Kurata and being so desperate for revenge. For such a short line, it said a lot about Ikuto’s character development, and that’s not there for Keenan.

Kurata: “A human who can achieve vast accomplishments for himself is the most excellent of life forms!”

~~~~~

Kurata: “Do you think a Digimon could achieve this on its own? Of course not! Only a human could accomplish something this advanced and superior.”

I think the dub’s somewhat missing Kurata’s point here. He’s not using his scientific accomplishments to argue that humans are better than Digimon because Digimon don’t do science. He’s using his scientific accomplishments to argue that he is the greatest most important person ever. Though he brings up himself being human among that, it’s largely incidental; it’s not really about these two species to him any more so much as it’s about him versus literally everyone else in both worlds.

Keenan: “We are all same! We friends! […] Are humons best? Are Digimon best? No!”

This part’s basically the same, and again, I think the dubbers may have changed the point of Kurata’s speech so that Keenan can be more directly responding to his argument. I still don’t think they should have.

Digimon Analyser Ravemon: “Ahh, it feels good to spread my Mega-level wings!”

Ravemon does his own analyser, and he’s being very pompous about it. It also sounds oddly like he’s been Ravemon before and has missed it? Which definitely should not actually be a thing.

Digimon Analyser Ravemon: “I’ve got more attacks than all my other levels combined!”

He’s got more different attacks than any of the others had each, I think, but I don’t know if it’s more than all three of his other levels together? Weird that he’d make a point of saying this either way.

Masaru: “Great job, Ikuto! You’re the man!”

~~~~~

Marcus: “Who is the man?! Keenan!”

Wow, they actually kept a manliness line for once, it’s a miracle. (And of course it’s on one of the least interesting uses of the concept.)

Kurata: “You can’t win against my current form…” [Ravemon attacks him; he staggers a little as he blocks] “Wh-What is this power?”

~~~~~

Kurata: “You can’t beat me either!” [Ravemon attacks him; he staggers a little as he blocks] “No matter how much you Digivolve!”

In the original, Kurata notices and is shocked by Ravemon’s greater power as soon as he blocks one attack from him, but in the dub he’s still trash-talking him the whole time like this is no different from the others.

Ikuto: “You don’t know!”

Ikuto & Ravemon: “This is…!”

Ravemon: “The power that comes from cherishing our friends!”

~~~~~

Keenan: “Digimon…!”

Keenan & Ravemon: “…have hearts!”

Ravemon: “And now you’ll see the power of friendship!”

This time, Keenan’s not directly responding to Kurata’s words where he was responding to him in the original. He and Ravemon make basically the same point here as in the original, but it comes off as cheesier. It really is, to get technical, precisely the power of not just friendship itself but of cherishing one’s friends, because that’s an emotion that powers Digisoul. Knowing that, the original line isn’t actually as cheesy as it sounds on the surface.

This whole part does come off as more triumphant than it did in the original, because it’s getting the Ultimate evolution music, whereas in the original, they didn’t use Believer for this and just had some of there generic ominous fight scene BGM.

The wound on Belphemon’s face opening wider upon Ravemon’s second strike there is edited out, so it looks distinctly less like he’s actually succeeded in injuring him. There wasn’t even any blood (Digimon don’t bleed), but I guess the censors didn’t like it anyway.

Kurata: “How can a mere insect have such power…?!”

~~~~~

Kurata: “Where is this power coming from…?!”

Sad at the lack of Kurata insisting he’s an insect and therefore obviously shouldn’t have enough power to hurt him.

Ikuto: “Now, change our feelings into power!”

Ravemon: “And unleash all of it!”

~~~~~

Keenan: “Now, you’ll see power!”

Ravemon: “The kind of power that can only come from friendship!”

Ikuto’s line in the original got to the point of Digisoul: feelings are power. The dub’s just doing more cheesy power of friendship stuff. I’m not sure the dubbers remember that emotions literally are power in this universe and that’s how DNA Charge works - but then again, in the dub, the DNA Charge emotions are apparently literally the seven deadly sins, so, you know.

One of Ravemon’s Japanese attack names, which needed a subbers’ note to explain that it’s the name of a certain sword from Shinto mythology, gets changed to Celestial Blade in English, which, yeah, still roughly the point.

Kurata: “Unforgivablllll—nnrrrrghhhhhh!!!”

~~~~~

Kurata: “You will pay!”

The original line I’m quoting here was not how it was subbed, but is instead my attempt at getting across how Kurata’s voice devolved into furious incoherent growling by the end of it, which continues over his borrowed body’s muscles bulging and the chains breaking as the real Belphemon breaks through. In the dub, he just says that line and then is silent as the change takes place. Because of that, it comes across less like the switch is happening because of how angry he is, compared to how it seemed in the original. Instead, it just feels like Belphemon happened to break through now for no particular reason, or even perhaps that Kurata consciously called him to do so (which he definitely would never do).

Tohma: “He’s powering up!”

~~~~~

Thomas: “I think he’s Digivolving!”

He’s really not Digivolving, Thomas. He’s already (super-)Mega level; he literally can’t evolve any higher than this. Surely you know that.

Masaru: “You idiot! Why’d you do that?”

~~~~~

Marcus: “Dumb kid, what are you doin’ trying to protect *me*?”

I do kind of like Marcus’s implication of “I’m not supposed to need protecting”. Keenan’s younger than him, he’s supposed to protect Keenan if anything. It’s definitely not like Marcus is currently in a completely vulnerable state of not having his own Digimon partner and actually does need someone looking out for him.

Belphemon: “I am not… Kurata…!”

~~~~~

Belphemon: “You wretched fool! How dare you compare me to a lowly human! I am not Kurata!”

The slow and growly way Belphemon said this in the original gave the dub a lot of extra lip-flap here, and they used it to give him some serious disdain for being compared to humans, which fits. Though I also imagine he’s extra pissed at being compared to (and forced to share a body with) someone like Kurata in particular.

Masaru: “What?”

~~~~~

Marcus: “He’s not?!”

Masaru’s response is an expression of surprise at the fact that they’ve switched, but Marcus’s more specific wording makes it sound like he’s surprised at the very notion that someone other than Kurata was even in there at all. Come on, dude, could you not figure out that Belphemon is his own person and was being controlled until now.

Belphemon: “I am the Demon Lord… Belphemon!”

~~~~~

Belphemon: “I am the deadly Digimon, Belphemon, and you shall feel my wraaaaath!”

Okay, Belphemon, but aren’t you actually the Demon Lord of Sloth, not Wrath? Or, well, apparently he’s not a Demon Lord in the dub at all, since they removed him saying that. The reason for them doing so is likely less because it’s irrelevant and more for religious censorship, though, since back in episode 36 they removed the term “Demon Lord” but kept the mention that he had six others like him, so he probably still is supposed to represent Sloth in the dub’s canon.

(Him calling himself “deadly” is surprisingly death-acknowledging for the dub’s standards. Maybe it’s supposed to be a reference to the deadly sins? Not that the dub ever called them that while mentioning them.)

Masaru: “Then, it can’t be…!”

~~~~~

Marcus: “But… Is Kurata still in there?”

Marcus sounds weirdly like he’s worried for Kurata, which doesn’t seem right. On the one hand I can get that he wants to be able to take down Kurata in particular, but on the other hand this is still an enemy that needs defeating either way, and if Kurata isn’t still in there any more then good, he’s dealt with. I don’t feel like Marcus would care that much in the heat of the moment that he didn’t get to be the one to do it.

(Masaru here seemed to be simply worried about the implications of Belphemon taking over, in that he’d attack more indiscriminately than Kurata would.)

Tohma: “As long as Belphemon’s instincts are in command, he’ll start attacking without discrimination!”

~~~~~

Thomas: “However, he’s no longer in control of Belphemon, whose true instincts have come out. All he cares about is destruction.”

Don’t think Thomas quite gets to the point here. All Kurata really cared about by now was destruction, too, when you put it that way. The difference was that Kurata’s hang-ups and desire for gloating meant that it was possible to get him to stop and give speeches at them from time to time, but Belphemon doesn’t care about any of that and really will just attack nonstop, indiscriminately, making him a more dangerous foe.

Sayuri: “Agu-chan loves Masaru just as much as Masaru loves him.”

~~~~~

Sarah: “Agumon loves Marcus with all his heart… and whether he admits it or not, Marcus loves Agumon just as much.”

Mixed feelings about adding the bit where Marcus doesn’t admit he loves Agumon. Yeah, he doesn’t, but also, Agumon has never directly admitted he loves Marcus either, and yet he doesn’t get that qualifying clause. They both still show that they love each other plenty, which should be enough. Feels a bit like a Marcus Is A Jerk thing.

The BGM as Marcus helplessly watches his friends get beaten up by Belphemon is a more melancholy sort of thing in the dub, which I like for this moment better than the generic tense fight music in the original.

Masaru: “Look, Agumon. Everyone’s worn out, but they’re still fighting for dear life! And yet, we’re the only ones who can’t join them!”

~~~~~

Marcus: “Look, Agumon. Everyone’s tired, but they’re still fighting! We’re the only ones left that can do anything now.”

That’s… literally the opposite of the point in the original? He’s not supposed to be saying that he’s the only one who can help because everyone else is exhausted; he’s saying everyone else is nonetheless still fighting and he’s the only one who can’t, which is unacceptable.

Masaru: “As a man, this is a disgrace!”

~~~~~

Marcus: “I’ve never felt so useless!”

This is a decent substitute for the manliness – it hits hard to have Marcus actually admit how useless he feels – but it’s dampened by coming right after that previous line in which he was acting like he could do something right now. The whole point is that he can’t!

Masaru: “Agumon! I want to fight with you!”

~~~~~

Marcus: “Agumon! I can’t do this alone, I need you!”

Pros to each here. I do like Marcus admitting that he needs Agumon and can’t do this alone (episode 6 callbacks!), but I also like how Masaru really clings to that phrase “I want to fight with you”, because he just loves fighting alongside his best friend and would always miss it so much whether they had such an important fight they needed to join right now or not.

The flashback shot of them dorking about in the shower is cut, presumably for anti-fanservice reasons. That’s fair enough I guess, but it was a cute shot regardless – it fits in with the bathroom shenanigans they’ve had before! – and I’d have loved for them to edit in more bubbles or something (there were already quite a lot of Convenient Bubbles) in order to be able to keep it. Perhaps they didn’t have time because the editors’ work was already cut out editing Miki’s neckline in this episode, sigh.

Masaru: “I want to fight! With you! Don’t you feel the same?! Agumon!”

~~~~~

Marcus: “It’s fightin’ time. Come on, Agumon… Can’t you feel it inside that lousy Digiegg…?”

I liked the way Masaru kept repeating that “I want to fight with you” in the original, but I do also like this. Marcus’s voice becomes all desperate and vulnerable and really sounding like he’s crying towards the end (to match his shoulders shaking, because he totally is), and it tugged at my heart.

ohhhh those really are some good crying sounds, which Masaru does not have in the original, yes I approve

The muffled sounds as Koromon noms onto Marcus’s face sound less like generic face-nomming sound effects and more like he’s trying to say something even though his mouth is full of face. Weird effect; surely he’d know well enough to wait until his mouth’s free before talking.

…Or, wait, no, I guess it’s Marcus’s muffled voice actually, probably protesting at suddenly being inside someone’s mouth. Though I think I still prefer the long awkward silent pause in the original, as if Masaru was just extremely bewildered to have Agumon hatch again and then suddenly NOM.

I think I prefer Marcus’s VA’s crying to Masaru’s; Masaru’s sobs sound weirdly choked (not that that couldn’t be how he might sound when upset), but Marcus just sounds so vulnerable and I want to give him a hug.

Koromon: “Aniki… Are you crying?”

Masaru: “No, you idiot! That’s just sweat dripping from my heart!”

~~~~~

Koromon: “Hey, Boss! You cryin’?”

Marcus: “No way! That’s just sweat; it’s hot out here!”

Boo. I am sad about this change. What I loved about the original line was that Masaru’s claim was so utterly ridiculous that there was no way Koromon was actually going to buy that he wasn’t crying; he was just framing the fact that he was crying in the most doofily manly way. But Marcus’s claim makes some amount of sense, so he really is trying to convince Koromon that he wasn’t crying at all. Which is less fun.

Koromon: “Fightin’ time?”

Marcus: “Mm-hmm!”

Awww, that’s cute. Tiny Koromon will fight all the times.

BanchouLeomon: (A pure Digisoul cannot be born from a fist of hatred.)

~~~~~

BanchoLeomon: (Real power is in your heart, and backed by an unwavering courage.)

In the original, this was BanchouLeomon reiterating something he’d said to Masaru in episode 35 re: the whole hatred-fuelled rampage, essentially highlighting that Masaru’s learned and moved past that now. In the dub, BanchoLeomon was too busy utterly roasting Marcus to give any similar advice at that point in episode 35, so instead this is completely new, and… kind of generic. It certainly doesn’t seem to be alluding back to the rampage in any way.

(Okay, wait, no, it’s not entirely new; it’s actually very close to something BanchoLeomon said in episode 29 instead. Kinda random to pick a quote from there (it’s not even from a particularly memorable moment in that episode), and it’s still not especially relevant to anything right now.)

Masaru: “After we beat Kurata, we’ll stuff our faces with good food!”

~~~~~

Marcus: “After we beat Kurata, we’ll get some breakfast!”

Breakfast specifically, even though Marcus at least has been awake all this time? Though I suppose it is night time right now, and Agumon at least has only just, ah, “woken up”.

Masaru: “Here we go, Kurata!”

~~~~~

Marcus: “It’s fightin’ time again! Hyaaaargh!”

Loses the interesting implications of how Masaru still wanted to frame this as him fighting Kurata, even though he’s not at this point. But then again, it’s definitely gotta be fightin’ time, so.

Overall differences

Since this is mostly a big fighty episode, there’s not too much for the dub to mess up. Still, there’s a bunch of subtle changes to the character moments here that I’m sad about.

Marcus and Thomas’s making up is turned into much more of an interaction between normal people who need to explain things with words, boo. A lot of what I loved about that moment with Masaru and Tohma was how Masaru was so straightforward that he didn’t need an explanation, and how Tohma knew that all he needed was to deliver that punch. Also, unlike with Yoshino, there’s no implication that Yoshi knew the betrayal was fake all along, which is a shame.

Though the dub’s been genuinely pretty great about Kurata up until this point, they’re dropping the ball on his characterisation at the final hurdle. They don’t seem to understand that his desire to rule both worlds isn’t really about ruling the worlds so much as it’s just an excuse to exert power and prove that he’s the greatest strongest ever. As part of that, he’s no longer even supposed to care about eradicating Digimon because they’re dangerous; he now just thinks they’re worthless because they’re weaker than him. But dub-Kurata still feels like the same Kurata from before this Belphemon arc, which isn’t quite right any more.

A lot of the edits to Kurata’s lines also seem to be made so that he and Keenan can be more directly arguing with each other, because it seems the dub didn’t realise that the two of them talking past each other and being incapable of engaging with the other’s point of view was the point of the original exchange.

Keenan’s side of it is pretty similar, but one key difference is that he doesn’t ever mention that he pities Kurata like Ikuto did, which was a huge sign of Ikuto’s growth away from wanting revenge. Apparently Keenan hasn’t changed in that way, or at least it’s not as noticeable. The lines with him and Ravemon are also a bit generically about the power of friendship, instead of touching on the more tangibly-true point that this is about the strength of their emotions.

The hatching scene is mostly pretty good and very cute and Marcus��s voice acting is excellent. But I cannot help but be sad that we lose the wonderfully dorky “sweat dripping from my heart” line, replaced with something that sounds like Marcus is actually trying to convince Koromon he’s not crying, bah.

#digimon #digimon savers #digimon data squad

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