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Episode 119 Transcript: He Only Got Two Eyes

[intro guitar music]

G: Hello, it's Grey.

C: Hello, it's Crystal.

G: And this is Busty Asian Beauties, a Supernatural commentary podcast where I, someone who has seen the show many times...

C: And I, someone who only knows about the show through social media, discuss every single episode of Supernatural from start to finish. Also, we are both Asian.

G: Both Asian! For today's episode, we will be discussing "The French Mistake," Season 6, Episode 15, written by Ben Edlund, directed by Charles Beeson. This is a Ben Edlund episode! For some reason, that has evaded me.

C: I don't know, for some reason, I came into it thinking it was a Sera Gamble episode just because I feel everyone is like, "Sera Gamble hates Misha Collins so much; see: 'The French Mistake.'" But she was just showrunner. Ben Edlund hates Misha Collins so much.

G: I don't know. People interchange Misha and Castiel, and Ben Edlund, I would say, does love Castiel. So, you know.

C: That is true.

G: There is some Destiel this episode. [laughing] Did you feel that way as well?

C: What? No, I didn't.

G:. There's some Destiel this episode. In the end, when Cas was talking to Sam and Dean, and he was only literally looking at Dean, I thought it was hilarious!

C: He only got two eyes! [both laugh]

G: He literally only got two eyes. Oh, by the way, we took a break. We're back. This is our "our back" episode. [C: Yeah.] No, this is our "we're back" episode. Yeah.

C: Yeah, okay, you wouldn't have- okay, we recorded an episode like a month ago, it came out last-

G: Literally in February 8th.

C: - week, and now, we're in real time back. And during that episode, I complained about Severance Season 2, Episode 4, and I'm back now [G laughs] after the end of Severance Season 2 to say that it was bad. [G: Hell yeah.] It was bad, and you can message me about it.

G: Yeah, that episode was evergreen, if I do say so myself, removed from the fact that we talk about very timely things, [laughs] including how it was Valentine's Day the day it was gonna be released. [laughs] But I was too lazy to go back and edit it out. So happy Valentine's Day to everyone who celebrated Valentine's Day on March 24.

C: Yep, so true.

G: Anyway, now we're back. Maybe better than ever, but we're yet to find out. Yeah. What did we know about "The French Mistake" going in?

C: Pretty much all of it.

G: I'd say everything, yeah.

C: All of it.

G: This is one of those episodes, obviously, that is so beloved by the fandom, and even if, I think, you're not in the fandom, you kind of have a gist of the idea that they do an episode where they're in the TV show Supernatural.

C: I think I did forget about the part that they were being used as a distraction for Cas to eat all of Balthazar's weapons, but besides that.

G: No, yeah. I would say, that's true for me in that I forgot that this is one of the Cas wings episodes. We see Cas's wings this episode! It's very fun! And I forgot that it was happening, so when we pan to the shot of Cas, and he's standing the way he's standing, I was like, "Yay!"

Wait, I have updates to make. I have beautiful updates to make.

C: Oh, wow.

G: First of all, in the duration of our break, a beautiful, marvelous thing has happened, which is that Supernatural became available in HBO Max Philippines. [laughs]

C: Hell yeah!

G: So I have been watching Supernatural on my phone, on my bed, lying sideways, which is the way that you should be watching Supernatural.

C: Giggling and kicking your feet?

G: No, I would say kicking my feet is very difficult with my heavy, heavy blanket, so it's not happening. It's very fun. I went through a journey of watching- I called it Yockeynatural where I watched episodes by Steve Yockey. It's very fun. I just want to say that I watched "Optimism," and it was a good episode. Loved it. That's all. And also, I went to the Manila Pen Show a week or so ago, and it's a convention where people who like fountain pens gather and buy stuff, [laughing] which is like, every person I've told about this that isn't my friend who I came with has been like, "Wow! They do things for anything." [both laugh] I went, and I bought a leather journal, so now I am fully committed to the bit of being a Supernatural fan in the duration of our break. Congratulations to me!

C: Very glad to hear it. Oh, my Supernatural update is that my friend Claudius-

G: Hell, yeah. Hi, Claudius.

C: My friend Claudius's birthday present for me came through, I think, during our break, and it's a Castiel pillow.

G: Hey! Another present came through for you!

C: That's true, that's true. And I finally received the things that Grey, @greyknits, had knit for me.

G: No! I have not been coming out with episodes for that thing. But yes, aren't they wonderful? You speak your praises.

C: Yeah, I'm wearing the vest currently.

G: Yay! Love that. Anyway, that's all for updates. Should I mention that my medication is making my boobs bigger, so it's like, Bustier Asian Beauties?

C: [laughing] Do you want to?

G: Well, now, I've mentioned it. We're changing the name of our podcast to Bustier Asian Beauties.

C: So true!

G: Yeah, it's a competition.

C: I think you already were winning.

G: I was, and I don't want to be. [both laugh]

Even if I knew so many things about this episode, it was still fun! I still had fun!

C: I laughed.

G: I enjoyed- I laughed. I did not cry, but I laughed even harder when Misha died. You know how it is. So it was very- it was wonderful. And I think the thing that surprised me the most is that I forgot that- Do some people actually say "J Squared" for J2? Or did Misha Collins invent that?

C: I don't know. I'm sure some people said it.

G: But I was reminded that people call Jared and Jensen "J2," and I was like, "[gasps] That is a thing that happens in the world of the Supernatural fandom."So that's something. Oh, we had ides of March in our break. [laughs] "Et tu, brute? You coward!" What did Jared Padalecki say?

C: Oh my god, yeah. Oh, shit. "Et tu, brute? #Bravo, you coward"?

G: Yeah. [laughs] We forgot about the most important part. The #Bravo. That was crazy! That was a crazy thing to do!

C: [laughing] I've said that the more I think about it, the more I'm on Jared Padalecki’s side about this before already, right?

G: [laughs] I mean, it's kind of true. It's just the public outburst was, and the wording of it, was hilarious.

C: Okay, yeah, okay. It was "@RobbieThompson. Et tu brute?? Wow. What a truly awful thing you’ve done. #Bravo you coward."

G: [laughs] "What a truly awful thing you've done"! And it was kind of awful, so like, fair enough.

C: Yeah, I get it, honestly.

G: Okay, that's enough pre-episode talk. Let's get into "The French Mistake."

C: Yeah. Should we talk about the title?

G: Yes, let's talk about the title. SPN Wiki says that the title is from Blazing Saydles. Or is it Blazing Saddles? What the fuck is that word?

C: Saddles.

G: It's saddles?

C: That's like, on a horse.

G: I know what a saddle is. I read about it, but I don't know how it's pronounced.

C: Yeah, that makes sense.

G: That's what SPN Wiki said. [laughs] But it also does say that "The French Mistake" is an event that happens when a straight man sleeps with another guy and then regrets it afterwards [C: Yeah.] And this entire episode, they're mad at each other, and they aren't talking. Love it!

C: To clarify, the people on the set of Supernatural are talking about how Jared Padalecki and Jensen Ackles have been fighting and not talking [G: Oh, yeah.] to each other recently.

G: Yeah, exactly.

C: And at some point, Bob Singer thinks that [both] they're on poppers. So. [both laugh]

G: I mean, it's hilarious. The thing about this episode-

C: I mean, a lot of the humor of this episode is like, "Isn't that gay?"

G: Which ones? Which is the-

C: Not specifically- not really gay as in homosexual, necessarily. Gay more like unmanly? [G: Yeah?] [laughing] Like, I think that they think it's gay that they're in Canada. You know what I mean? [both laugh]

G: That is true. And I did see a Canadian dollar in this episode, which I thought was really gay. [laughs]

C: So true.

G: He says, "Oh, I have makeup on," and it's a big deal, and that he was in a soap opera, that's also a big deal, you know. All that crap.

C: It's gay to be straight in a soap opera.

G: "[dramatically] I care that you're healthy." [laughing] To be fair, it is a funny fucking scene that they showed to prove that Jensen Ackles is a hilarious actor.

-

G: The "Then" sequence in this episode, the only thing that I found remarkable about it is well, one, obviously, Ruby's in it. They give the whole Ruby rundown because Genevieve Padalecki's gonna be in this episode.

C: Meg #1 is there to remind us [G: Yeah.] of the blood in a cup to summon somebody thing.

G: Yeah, which is also very fun. And something that I also did enjoy was that they put the hilarious line Cas says where he goes, "I... and many others... that's the last thing we want." [both laugh] about how Raphael is gonna take over Heaven. I mean, where's the many others, Cas? We have fucking Balthazar this episode, and he's not that committed to the bit, if I'm being honest.

We cut to the cold open, which is Balthazar going- Sam and Dean are in Bobby's house. Bobby is out, and then Balthazar comes rushing in, looking for ingredients for a spell. I don't know. They try to make this entertaining and funny. He's obviously going out and about. And he's finding things in the pantry, I suppose, that Bobby has. I do think that one is fun. I think it's fun that this spell that they're having, Bobby just happens to have all the stuff that he needs. I think that's hilarious.

C: Including the bone of a lesser saint.

G: Yeah, bone of a lesser saint, and the the lamb blood in the fridge. I think at some point he makes a joke about how, "Oh, there's beer, pizza, where's the blood of lamb? Blood of lamb?" And then he finds it there, which is, I think that's fun. That's a fun visual to have of when you open Bobby's fridge. He draws a sign on the fucking window. He says that an angel named Virgil is coming after him.

C: Yeah, who works Raphael.

G: Yeah. Oh, at some point, he says "Cassie," which I find fun. As they fall, they end up falling on a mat in a set.

C: Yeah. And wait, Balthazar's trying to get them out. He's claiming that Raphael's coming after everyone who's helped Cas before to kill them, so he's sending them to another universe to save their lives.

G: That's true. Hell yeah.

C: And that Cas is hiding also.

G: Yeah. And I think at some point, he says, "Oh, yeah, Cas is gonna be killed. And also me. And also you two, because you've been helping Cas." So he's putting the stakes up high.

C: And he gives Sam a key.

G: That's true! And it's just a random-ass fucking key. [laughing] And you know, if there's a key, there has to be a lock. Hilarious. They fall into the mat, and we see that they're being watched by the director. It's Robert Singer! I mean, it's not. It's an actor who's playing Robert Singer. But it is Robert Singer. He calls them Jared and Jensen, and then we get the clapper, where it's like, Supernatural Scene One blah blah blah, and then it cuts to the fucking splash screen. And I do think that is very fun. There's, I mean, obviously, this is "The French Mistake." There's a lot of gags this episode that you know that they were having so much fun doing it. [C: Yeah.] They thought this was so funny and so wonderful, and it is!

C: A bit.

G: This reminds me of- [laughs] I think I'm revealing myself by saying this. But do you know that fucking "500 Miles" David Tennant video? [laughs]

C: [laughs] Yeah, from Doctor Who?

G: It has that vibe of yeah, it's fun to watch as an audience member, but it is very obvious that they're making this for the cast and crew.

C: Yeah, they're enjoying marching around in their costumes.

G: This joke is for them, and I also happen to be here watching the episode. And there is a charm to that. It's very charming. [C: Yeah.] Literally irrelevant, David Tennant, [laughs] but we have to bring him up.

-

C: They're on the Supernatural set, and Sam and Dean are confused about what the fuck is going on. A cameraperson's pointing out that there was a glitch in the signal the moment [G: Yeah.] that quote-unquote "Jared and Jensen" came through the window. I don't know. There's just a lot of jokes this episode, and it doesn't really make sense to do all the dialogue for all of the jokes because they're not that funny secondhand.

G: That's true. But the joke here is that they can't redo this fucking shot. It's gonna take so much time.

C: They're just gonna freeze frame when they get to the window and then cut.

G: Yeah, which I did love at the end that they do the thing that they said they would do. They freeze fucking frame. So charming.

C: Yeah, on Sam and Dean returning to the universe that we know. They also have a joke about how "Oh, if we want to refilm the window, then we'll have to cut the scene where they sit on the Impala and talk about their feelings."

G: Which is a fan favorite, allegedly, because they talk about it in the hate mail. So importies.

C: So Sam and Dean both get dragged away by people working on set. Dean gets dragged away by a makeup artist, who starts wiping makeup off of Dean's face, and he's shocked and horrified at the fact that he's wearing makeup because it's gay.

G: Yeah, yeah. [laughs] I love how I said "Yeah." They're like, "Yeah, it is gay." [both laugh]

C: It is gay. Sam's being interviewed about what's next for his character, and he just doesn't know what's up, but in the interview it's made clear that whatever happens in the show is what has happened in Sam and Dean's lives.

G: "You beat the devil, lost your soul, and got it back again. So what's next for Sam Winchester?" An important question to ask

C: Indeed. A lot. Nine seasons' worth. So Sam and Dean regroup and leave the studio to see the Impala, and then Dean starts getting really distressed because a props person starts putting mud on it, and then he realizes that there's five different Impalas lined up as props, and he's deeply upset about it.

G: That's true! Yeah.

C: And then he decides to try to pray to Cas to get them out of this-

G: Wait, wait, wait! Did you know that Jensen Ackles got to take home the car?

C: Wait, there's only one?

G: I mean, the Impala that they use that's completely functional, I guess. Wonderful.

C: At the end of Season 15?

G: Yeah.

C: Well, I guess he got it in Heaven, and then he drove it off. [G laughs]

G: Yeah, I mean, I do think that's very charming. I know we make fun of Jensen Ackles, and for good reason, you know. But I do enjoy that he likes Dean so much. [laughs]

C: Well, I'm happy that you're happy that he's happy.

G: [laughs] Yeah, but I think it's charming! I'm so sorry. Dean goes ahead and tries to call on Cas in a really fun prayer where he goes, "Dear Castiel, who art maybe running his ass away from Heaven, we pray that you have your ears on, so breaker, breaker." I still don't know, actually, what breaker breaker means.

C: Yeah, I'm not sure either.

G: Yeah, but I enjoy the implication that, you know, Cas's prayer line is not serious whatsoever. Every time they have a scene where Dean is praying jokingly, like- was it 6.01 or what episode? 6.02, I guess? I always think it's so fun. [C: Yeah.] They see some guy who looks like Castiel who's wearing a trench coat and standing on the side- over on the side. And they rush up to him, and it's obviously Misha Collins, because before he puts on his Cas voice, he makes a face of like, "And now I'm gonna start acting," which I do think is fun. And he puts on the low voice for Castiel. And I do find this very clever. They start doing exposition. He talks about how- Basically, the idea is that the script that they have is what's supposed to be happening this episode or something like that. What the script says is that Balthazar has sent them to this alternate reality in order to get away from [C: Virgil?] well, Raphael and Virgil. They ask "Cas," quote-unquote, what the key is supposed to do, and he says, "Oh, it's the key to the room where every weapon that Balthazar stole from Heaven is. To keep it safe until I could reach you." You can see throughout this conversation that Misha kind of had lines where it's like, "Oh, that's not what you're supposed to say, but I'm just gonna keep on going." And then Sam asks, "Okay, so what the fuck is up with this TV shit?" And Misha turns off the Cas voice, and is like, "What?" Misha goes back to normal voice, and then we have this bit where Jensen is like, "Amen, Padaleski," and Sam corrects him with "I think it's Padalecki." "Cas," quote-unquote, starts removing his tie and unbuttoning his shirt, and they're like, "Wait, what the hell is this?" And it's Misha Collins! I was pissed watching this scene [C laughs] because I was like, "You keep your fucking Misha Collins away from my Castiel!" In theory, I understand that Cas is acted by Misha Collins, but seeing Misha Collins act as Castiel pissed me the fuck off. [laughing]

C: No, it's like those photos from the cons where he's in his Cas outfit-

G: Don't insult that because I have friends who have photos from that con. [laughs]

C: Oh, okay. Never mind!

G: I love you, my fucking friends who have photos with Misha Collins in a convention where he's dressed as Castiel.

C: Who?

G: I don't want to say for their own private- It's Orla, my Irish friend.

C: [laughs] Okay.

G: Yeah. I love how I say "my Irish friend" just like how I call Vittoria "my Italian friend." [laughs]

C: So true. [laughing] And isn't Vittoria so proud that Caravaggio comes from her country? [G laughs]

G: No, yeah. To any Italian listeners that we may have, are you proud that Caravaggio comes from Italy? Let me know. [C laughs] Because if Carvaggio was Filipino, I'd be like, "Wow, and that guy's Filipino, also." I would be very proud. But also, they have so many Italian art masters that Caravaggio may actually be the lesser ones, part of the lesser ones. Isn't that crazy?

Misha Collins, his characterization this episode is that he wuvs to tweet, and he drives a Toyota. [laughs] You know, when we see him get in the Toyota, I was like, "Have we literally never seen a car brand that isn't American in this show?" [C: Huh.] I think we haven't. I think this is the first fucking Japanese brand of car that we see

C: Nice.

G: John was supposed to buy a Volkswagen, right?

C: Was he?

G: Yeah, he was supposed to buy a fucking minivan.

C: Okay.

G: That's German. That's a German brand. I love that.

C: A Nazi brand. [G laughs]

G: Is that true?

C: I think I think Volkswagen has a very Nazi-esque history.

G: To be fair, Castiel drives a Ford Fiesta. That is a Nazi brand. [laughs]

C: Ford is also a Nazi.

G: Yeah. His fucking electric blue Ford Fiesta. And the tweet that he says is, "[pronouncing the H] Hola, Mishamigos." I love how I said "Hola." [laughing] What the hell was that?

C: [laughing] You know Spanish.

G: I know when I said "Toyota" earlier, too. What am I doing?

G: Well, he says, "[not pronouncing the H] Hola, Mishamigos. J Squared got me good. Really starting to feel one of the guys." And I think they did a bit where, as it aired in the episode, as he says it in the episode when it was airing live-

C: Misha Collins would actually tweet?

G: Yeah, which is very fun.

C: That's pretty fun, actually.

G: Yeah, that is pretty fun, and he dies this episode. Good for him. Anyway, they come across a fucking giant fucking trailer, and Jensen- [laughs] And Dean goes, "Oh my god! This is for Jensen Ackles. That's fake me. This must be fake mine." And so yeah, they go into this fucking trailer. Also, I kind of love that they make some kind of digs to the fact that they're called Jensen Ackles and Jared Padalecki. It is a little bit of an oddball name, I would say. Would you agree? Or is that a fucking crazy thing to say?

C: Jensen?

G: I think Jensen is kind of an odd name.

C: I don't think I'd heard of any Jensens besides Jensen Ackles.

G: There was a band in the Philippines called Jensen and the Flips, but they got cancelled for being sexual harassers. [laughs]

C: Great!

G: So that those are my only two experiences of Jensen. Jensen Ackles-

C: I do know other Jareds.

G: Yeah, I think I've heard of other Jareds in my life. Oh my god! I have another thing that happened during our break, which is that I attended a fucking Got7 concert. No, not concert. Oh my god! I attended a Got7 fan event.

C: [laughs] That's worse!

G: No, yeah, I got so much stuff. Literally so many things. I won an album that's sealed and everything.

C: Oh, congrats!

G: Thank you very much. And I, for some reason, had a conversation with someone there who goes to my university and watches- knows about Supernatural, and we talked about Supernatural. Imagine coming to a fucking K-pop event and talking about Supernatural.

C: They're both pretty popular things.

G: Is Supernatural popular? Well, apparently it is, because I talked to someone about it [C: Yeah.] and they study at my university, and we have come across each other since, and they have told me every single time we come across each other that they have been watching Supernatural, which is so fun!

C: I'm so sorry.

G: Yeah. And Jensen Ackles, apparently, is very attractive, people say. And I talked to a straight guy who's in my internship, and he was like, "Oh, I love Jensen Ackles as Soldier Boy." He was like, "You know, as a straight man, I love him," [both laugh] which is like a hilarious thing to say.

C: What does that mean?

G: Like, this guy's a gym rat, so-

C: Does he mean "he'd be my gay hall pass" or just "I no-homo love him."

G: No, I think it was like, "I'm a guy who works out, and I see Soldier Boy, and I'm like, 'Damn.'" or something.

C: "I wish that I worked out in a way that made me look like him"?

G: It was actually unclear. [laughs] It's actually unclear what he was trying to say. But I do have in my knowledge that he is straight, so I just thought I would bring that up, you know? It's important. We're diverse. [C: So true.] It pisses me off that Jensen Ackles is actually supposedly attractive. Fuck off. That's my hot take.

C: Why does it piss you off?

G: I don't know. It's because one time I brought a picture of Dean Winchester to the barber's, [laughing] and the guy said, "I cannot make you look like that." That's why I'm pissed off.

C: Why couldn't he make you look like that?

G: I don't know. I think it was his- that's his problem. That's not mine. A skill issue on his regard.

C: Yeah. Yeah.

-

C: Inside the Jensen Ackles trailer, there's a huge aquarium. There's a TV playing back old scenes of Supernatural.

G: I think they call this the dailies, if I'm not mistaken. It's playing the dailies

C: There's a laptop that Sam uses to look up Jensen Ackles, and there's a stack of magazines that includes photos of Jensen and Jared.

G: "These male modeling sons of bitches" is what he says.

C: Is what Dean calls them, and he says that Sam has a bad Blue Steel. Speak for yourself! And Sam sees that Jensen Ackles was on a soap opera and plays a clip from Days of Our Lives that Dean's mortified by for some reason. Because it's gay, I guess? [G: Yeah.] Dean decides that to get out they should just do Balthazar's spell again, so they go back to set to try to get the ingredients, but-

G: I mean, Dean writes in a paper the symbol that Balthazar wrote on the window, and I found that really impressive. I think that's so cool [C: Yeah.] that he can remember that. Good for him

C: Yeah, good for him! So on set, they're looking for that bone of a lesser saint that Balthazar are used, but-

G: But it's made of rubber.

C: And all of the blades on set are rubber props, so he just starts fake stabbing Sam with it, and Bob Singer, watching them, goes, "Well, at least they're talking to each other," which begins the thing throughout the episode where people just keep saying that Jensen and Jared haven't been talking.So they decide that they need to get out of the set in order to find shit, so they get into one of the Impalas, but it doesn't really work.

G: It doesn't drive. [laughs]

C: Because it's a prop. And a crew member makes them get out and get into a real car with a driver.

G: Yeah. And their driver/bodyguard is a guy named Cliff who is their actual bodyguard in real life. [C: Huh.] I think that was very fun, because, of course, if you're a fan, of course you'd know Sera Gamble. Also, isn't that crazy? Okay, actually, I have a question. I don't know about this. So if anyone in the audience knows about this- because you won't either, Crystal. But I wonder if during Season 6, they already had the kind of sentiments that we have now for the writers of Supernatural. Would Robert Singer be a common enough name people would instantly recognize? Do people have a relationship with Sera Gamble and Eric Kripke and all that stuff? You know what I mean? [C: Yeah.]Because right now, I do think Supernatural is kind of in a unique situation fandom-wise where everybody knows every fucking writer and can name episodes that they've written and stuff. But I wonder if the vibe was similar at all in Season 6, and they are calling to it in the episode, or that it came after, and this is one of the reasons why. You know what I mean? [C: Yeah.] Is this an instigating factor into the people having intimate knowledge of the writers of Supernatural and their work? I mean, I'm sure people know Eric Kripke. I know Shonda Rhimes. So showrunners is a familiar enough name, I guess. But, you know, the other stuff. Like Robert Singer-

C: Were the writers part of the con circuit back then?

G: I'm not sure, but I know that Ben Edlund has been interviewed for some stuff when he was writing Supernatural. I'm 100% sure I've seen those clips. But I'm saying that- Okay, aside from that- but the thing is, if you are a religious watcher of Supernatural, you wouldn't- this would be common knowledge, I suppose, probably. There's a chance, right? But knowing the name of Jensen and Jared's bodyguard [laughs] is not one of those things. It's not gonna show up on the fucking credits. So you really have to be a fan of a certain caliber to know this fact, so that's why I really enjoy it. And they make a whole bit out of it. He says his name. Sam mistakes mistakenly calls him Clint, and he goes, "It's Cliff." So that's very fun.

-

G: They're in the car, in a very fancy car. Cliff asks them where they're going, and Sam's like, "Well, back to my place, I guess." And Dean says, "No, I'm coming with him." And then Cliff asks, "Wow! Since when have you been talking?" As they're driving, Dean wonders, "Wait, where the hell are we, even?" And he looks out, and there's a sign for "Welcome to Vancouver." So he's upset that they're not even in America.

C: Yeah, this is a big deal to him, for some reason.

G: Yeah. At some point later, he says, "If we can't get out of this universe, at least get us out of fucking Canada!" [C: Yeah.] Which is like, I think it's a normal, fine country. Love Canada. Or is that- I don't know. I know nothing about Canada. They have maple syrup.

C: I don't know too much about Canada, but yeah, I feel like there's not really a strong anti-Canada sentiment.

G: In this time?

C: Yeah, not that I'm aware of. Especially not, I don't know, with whatever Dean's feelings about the world are.

G: [laughs] Literally could be anything except the things that they are not.

C: I don't- Canadians are- I don't know. I feel the the stereotypes are just that [both] they're nice and say "sorry" a lot.

G: They play hockey. Yeah.

C: Yeah. So maybe it's gay to be nice and say "sorry" a lot?

G: Yeah, it's gay to play hockey. Those men are always-

C: No, that's true.

G: There's a lot of RPF.

C: The "Hockey RPF" tag is so strong.

G: Yeah, exactly. Anyway, they arrive at a fucking mansion. It's the Padelecki mansion where Jared Padalecki and Genevieve Padalecki live. And there's a fucking tanning bed, [laughs] and I did find this incredibly fucking funny. Jared goes, "What am I, Dracula?" And then Dean lifts it up, and they realize it's a tanning bed. And I read through the SuperWiki page for this one, which I never do for any episode whatsoever, and apparently, Jared is known to be someone who tans, and they showed a picture of him in a 2008 event tan as fuck [laughs] to prove that that's the case. Another thing that they notice is that, Dean looks over to the fucking yard or something, I don't know if you can call it yard if it's a fucking mansion. But they have-

C: Over to the grounds.

G: Yeah. [laughs] And then he goes, "Dude, you have a camel in your backyard?" And Genevieve Padalecki shows up over the railing, and she goes, "It's an alpaca, dumbass." And Dean is like, "Ruby?!" Yeah. And then Genevieve is like, "Okay, fine, whatever. You think that's so funny? Well, I'm about to be hilarious." And then she goes to kiss Sam and is like, "How are you, honey?" I would say- They met in 2004. It's kind of- Not to judge anyone's life decisions, when you lay it out, I'm surprised that they're married already.

C: They didn't meet in 2004. They met in Season 4?

G: They met in Season 4, sorry. [C: Yeah.] I didn't understand that it was a quick situation. But now, I'm like, "Oh, yeah. Season 6 is literally 2 seasons after Season 4." So, yeah, they're married now. Good for them.

C: What's the Jensen Ackles/Danneel Ackles deal? Because we don't really see anything about Jensen Ackles’s personal life in this episode.

G: Yeah, we don't. But, I mean, they lean into the Ruby because I mean, I do think it's hilarious to be like, "And Sam's actor married the actor for Ruby" because they have a history in the show, too. You know, all that stuff. So I understand why they leaned into it. But I'm not sure. When did Jensen Ackles get married?

C: [typing] 2010, it says, and they were engaged in November 2009.

G: Jared got married a couple months earlier. You know, one other thing in the fucking Supernatural Wiki is "This episode, they were constantly referring to the fact that Jensen and Jared are not actually friends and that they don't talk. However, in real life, this is not the case." [both laugh]

C: They have matching fucking tattoos that they got on the day of JDM's wedding.

G: That's wild. With JDM! [both] With JDM. And also, the proof that they have is that they were fucking grooms- What's the maid of honor, but for men?

C: Best man?

G: Yeah, they were best mans at each other's wedding.

C: Mutually?

G: I think so, yeah.

C: Huh, good for them.

G: Is it? [laughs] I mean, "Et tu brute. What a truly awful thing you've done"?

C: That was at Robbie Thompson!

-

C: So Sam and Dean are both shocked to their core about this, but, you know, Dean recovers, because he's like, "Oh, no, it's- you're the actress for Ruby, because... and you guys... are... married!" And they focus so much on Dean's reaction, and not Sam's?

G: Yeah, that's true.

C: Which, I don't know. I feel Sam would feel more- I don't know. This is just a continuation about how the Samruby relationship was mostly just about how much Dean hated it and not about them.

G: Yeah. But I do think it's funny that he's figuring these things out, and then he sees the photo on the mantel, and he goes, "Because you're married!" and he immediately goes, "You married fake Ruby?" I do think that's funny.

C: Yeah. Gen's surprised that quote-unquote “Jensen” is here to run some lines because he's never even been to the Padalecki house.

G: Also, the Supernatural fandom is so misogynistic., and I really do not want to add to it, but Genevieve is not a good actress, even as acting herself!

C: We've already said that.

G: I know! But even acting as herself? [laughs] It's kind of crazy.

C: Yeah, okay. And her deal this episode is that she's hot and she cares about the environment.

G: About animals specifically. Apparently, Genevieve and Jared are actually animalheads. That's not what the- But in a way where they support- pehta? How do you pronounce that?

C: Oh, PETA?

G: PETA, yeah.

C: Yikes.

G: Which is not that nice. Although the way the Supernatural Wiki puts it is they have supported PETA in the past, but they support other organizations now, so.

C: So apparently, the Padaleckis have an alpaca because they're the greenest animal, and Gen has to leave to go to the International Otter Adoption charity dinner. [G: Yeah.] And she goes, and both Sam and Dean, are staring at her ass, I suppose, [G: Yeah.] as she leaves, and Dean's like, "Sick, bro. You married a hottie!" [G laughs] And Sam's like, "Yeah! It is so sick, bro!" And that's their response to seeing somebody who looks exactly like Ruby for the first time in two years after all of that shit went down?

G: Yeah, I mean, they don't really lean into the possible psychological aspects of this. They're just like, "Isn't it so funny?"

C: Yeah, it's a funny episode, and she's a hot woman.

G: She's a hot woman. [laughing] People don't even know what that's a reference to.

C: [laughing] And they never will.

-

C: So they're in the library of the Padalecki mansion now, and they're seeing on some kind of online shopping site that somebody has a wrist bone of a saint from an auction house in Mexico City. And Dean's like, "Okay, let's drive all the way down there and then steal it." And Sam's like, "Well, actually, we can just buy it."

G: We're rich!

C: "It's over a hundred thousand dollars, but we're rich." Sam uses his credit card. He gets on the phone, talks [both] in Spanish. Dean tries to buy something using a Jensen Ackles credit card and it gets declined.

G: Love that. No, he maxed it out is what he says.

C: So they can pick it up at the airport the next morning. Later, Gen gets back from her event. Sam starts questioning her about the almost Apocalypse or the- I guess the Apocalypse beginning from Season 5, about, "Hey! Remember all those earthquakes from last year?" And she's just like, "I remember them from your show, but they never happened in real life." [G: Yeah.] She goes, "Let's go upstairs and have sex," maybe. But Sam also says later that he was up all night researching. The implication, I think, is that Sam's going upstairs to have sex with his hot wife, except he's not Jared Padalecki, and she's not aware that he's not Jared Padalecki, [G: Yeah.] so I hope they didn't.

G: They also have done the bit where it's like, "Oh, I'm doing research?" And then it's Dean ushering out a hot woman out of his fucking room.

C: Oh, from "Changing Channels."

G: Yeah. So research can be anything. Maybe he's changing his major to Joan or something.

So they end up at the airport. They get the fucking thing, and it's super fun. And Cliff asks, "What is that? Is this illegal?" And Dean asks, "If we tell you no, would it make you feel better?" And Cliff goes, "No."

C: Sam says that!

G: Oh. Sam says that?

C: Yeah.

G: I'm so sorry, Sam Winchester.

C: Sam can be funny too, Grey! [G laughs]

G: I'm so sorry to Sam Winchester for disrespecting him in this way, and only this way specifically. They go back to the set. Bob Singer comes in, and Sam and Dean tell him that "We need this set clear for an hour or so." Bob Singer's like, "Well, no, we're not gonna do that." And he does the thing where it's like, "See, I think your enthusiasm is so wonderful." And he says that "Dean Cain was that on Lois, and that man's a real actor. Anyway! The other actors, blah blah blah," the implication being Jared and Jensen are not real actors, which I find hilarious given the story of Misha Collins asking Robert Singer about things and Robert Singer going, "You're not gonna be one of those actors, are you?" [C laughs]

Dean goes back to a chair where Sam is sitting, and Misha Collins is asking, "Oh, what's in the box?" And Sam just goes, "Oh, parts of a dead person." They start an acting scene, and this is iconic. [C: Great.] But obviously, just watch it or something. [laughs] It is a funny scene, and again, they do the clever thing where they're trying to do a funny scene, but it also has exposition, so, you know, they're missing the marks. They're really bad actors. Sam doesn't know what to do with his hands. All very important things. At some point, Dean just turns to the directors and goes, "I mean, we have all the lines, right? Why are we still doing this?" which is so important.

C: Yeah, they're really bad at it. I know the the Dean gender studies majors care about this scene. Should we talk about that?

G: Yeah, because there's also a part where Dean puts on a [lowers voice] really low voice, like this. He's like, "Yeah, we need to get all of that crap." [back to normal] And Sam's like, "What? What are you talking about?" And then Dean goes, "That's how he does it!" So I think that is fun that they're self-aware that Jensen Ackles is putting on a voice.

C: Misha Collins gets to tweet.

G: What did Misha Collins tweet?

C: "IMHO, J and J had a late one last night. ROTF. LMAO." Bob Singer is quite alarmed at their performance, so he calls up Sera Gamble.

G: Yay!

C: And he goes, "Okay, so they started talking to each other, which is good. But now Jensen's living at Jared's house. [G laughs] And they're smuggling illegal stuff. And there's maybe a black market organ thing going on, or drugs." And then in the background, Sam and Dean are drawing the blood sigil that Dean remembers Balthazar leaving, [G: Yeah.] and watching them, Bob says, "Anyway, as far as I can see, I think they've lost any shred of talent they ever had." And then Sam and Dean jump through the window, trying to complete the spell, and nothing happens. Iconic.

G: Iconic.

C: Sam and Dean realize that maybe the reason why it didn't work is because this world doesn't have any elements of the supernatural in it. The Apocalypse didn't happen. Sam looks stuff up, and it just seems there's no monsters or ghosts or demons here. [G: Yeah.] And yeah. Which I feel like we talked about before, how can he know for sure? Just everyone who died has died in an explainable way forever, or?

G: Yeah, I don't even know. Obviously, the idea of monsters and ghosts are still there because they are in a TV show called Supernatural, but it just happened to not exist. All of them? Every culture? Every culture doesn't have them? [laughs] What is this?

C: And then it cuts to a motel room set on the Supernatural set, which also has the sigil on the window, and Virgil crashes through there. Now he is here.

-

C: So Dean decides that they need to leave Canada. And then, as they're walking around, they see Virgil and he comes up to them and tries to kill them, but nothing happens. He can't do his angel smite thing without his magic powers. So Sam and Dean just start punching this guy out. In the background, one of the stunt coordinators, is trying to chat up a hot blonde woman, but he gets interrupted by what, to him, is Jensen and Jared trying to kill an extra. [G: Yeah.] And they break up the fight, and Virgil runs away after snagging the key from Sam's pocket. [G: Yeah.] So we get another phone call.

G: Yeah, Bob Singer's talking to Sera Gamble again, and he's saying that they almost killed [laughs]- They were beating an extra to death, and then someone is like, "Actually, it wasn't all the way to death. It was just partway there. So that's good." [laughs] And yeah. What Robert Singer is saying is that they're on an extended psychedelic trip. And Sera is like, "Okay, what I'm going to do is I'm going to fly there and talk to them." The other person is, "Well, I'm not sure this is what we're supposed to do because, I mean, they don't know you. You're new!"

C: Not nice. She's been a writer since Season 1! Maybe actors don't interact that much with the writers, though?

G: I mean, there's a chance, yeah. The directors are definitely the people that they talk to the most. But Sera Gamble complained that "How's that gonna make me look! I'm supposed to be running this thing!" And there's a joke where she says that "Eric Kripke is writing a fucking pilot," and Robert Singer's like, "Wait, a new one already? They want Octocobra?" And then he goes, "God! They'll buy anything," [laughs] which I did find hilarious.

G: Yeah, okay. Jensen Ackles most definitely knows Sera Gamble- Well, okay, I guess this was post her being a showrunner because of his fucking- Didn't he give a dumb fucking interview where he was like, "Oh, you know, because Sera Gamble's a woman, she doesn't always understand things. Like, me hanging on to Cas's trenchcoat? Like, that's gay!"

G: No, that's Season 7. That's for Season 7. [C: Yeah. Yeah.] And he's saying that they had to workshop the fucking script [C: Dean giving the coat back to Cas.] because it was like the gay agenda was in the script or something.

C: Yeah, yeah.

G: And then they tried to make it unhomophobic by making it misogynistic instead. [laughs] Like, "No, we're not mad that it's gay. We're just mad that it was written by a woman who doesn't know how men speak."

C: Yeah. "So it was like, girly. The way he was having feelings, it was like a girl! So yeah." [G laughs] [G groans]

G: God, the Supernatural set is kind of a-

C: It's so crazy how Sera Gamble is such a racist and homophobic writer, but she does face real strong misogyny in her job, also.

G: [laughs] Yeah. Oh, man, literally. Anyway, we have Misha Collins getting out of his trailer into his fucking Toyota, and-

C: Oh, another Misha Collins bit is that he's mean to crew members.

G: Yeah, earlier, he shoves a character away.

C: Yeah, one's fixing his makeup; he shoves them away. And he condescendently calls one of them "little fella" as he leaves his trailer in this scene.

G: Yeah. And he sits down in the front seat of his Toyota, and he gets out his phone. He's also wearing a very fun steek cardigan. You know what steeked means? [C: No.] It means it was knit in the round, and then it was cut open in the middle to provide space for the zipper, and the zipper was sewn in into the cut knit fabric, which is very fun. So he's wearing a very fun cardigan. And then he gets out his phone and he starts typing, "Do you ever feel like someone's in the backseat?" [laughs] And then the knife comes out from the backseat. And the other joke for Misha Collins is that his voice is high, I think. 'Cause- I watched this with subtitles. Love that! On HBO Max. Love that! [laughs] And every time Misha Collins spoke, in the caption, they put "Misha, in a high voice." [C laughs] So when he goes, "Ah!" here, the caption is, "Misha, in a high voice, going: Ah!" Anyway, Virgil makes him drive off to somewhere. But we go back first to Sam and Dean going into the set, and Robert Singer is sitting on the table ominously, and they get surprised. And he asks them, "Can I just pay you money? If I pay you enough money, will you stop acting like that?" And Dean is like, "You already give us so much money." Also, I forgot to mention, in the beginning, they make a joke about how not a lot of people watch the show, which I do think is also fun. [C laughs] Because Dean asks, "How are people watching our lives? What's interesting about it?" And Sam goes, "I don't think a lot of them are doing it."

C: He says, "According to that interviewer, not a lot of people are!"

G: Yeah, the interviewer probably- what do you think the interviewer said for TV?

C: I don't know. "You lost a lot of viewers since the end of Season 5. Tell us about something exciting that's happening in the back half of Season 6 that'll bring them back"?

G: Or it could be like, "Your show is a niche cult classic" or something that. [both laugh]

Yeah, Robert Singer is like, "Yeah, so what can we do?" And they're turning around to ignore him, and then he taps them on the shoulder. Oh, no- there's a Bob Singer bit first. Okay, so Robert Singer goes on, and he's like, "You know, I like to think, after years doing this show, that we have become closer. You don't think of me anymore as Director Bob or Executive Producer Bob Singer but as Uncle Bob." They realize that they named Bobby Singer after this guy, and then Dean goes, "What kind of douchebag names a character after himself?" And Sam's like, "That's not right." [laughs] This is where their moral stance is. This is where they draw the line. [C: So true.] Anyway, they turn around to fuck off to nowhere. Bob Singer follows them and puts his hand heavily on their shoulder, and he goes, "You can't come to work on poppers and smuggle kidneys in from Mexico and make up your own lines as you go. What about your careers?" And Sam's like, "Fuck my career." And Dean turns to him and does this really dramatic speech. And he goes, "You heard my brother. And that's right, I said brother. Because you know what, Bob? We're not actors. We're hunters. We're the Winchesters! Always have been, and always will be." And he says that "Where we're from, people don't know us, but we matter because we actually do things."

C: What would bring somebody to give this stupid little speech?

G: I don't even know. They're just trying to be funny.

C: Yeah, it's very "I'm a hero!"

G: Yeah. He tells Bob Singer, "Okay, fine. There's fans here and whatnot. But tell me, what does this all even mean, Bob Singer?"And yeah, Robert says- [laughs] I love how I refuse to refer to him as Bob. But Robert Singer says, "Well, you know what? This is fine. I can work with this. We've all had our psychotic breaks." But Dean is like, "No, we quit." And then Misha gets killed in an alley

C: Wait. Did we mention that Sam and Dean realized that Virgil stole the key?

G: Oh, yeah, they do. They realize that Virgil- and then Sam realizes that Virgil stole the key, [laughs] and then Misha Collins dies in an alley. [both laugh]

-

C: So Misha Collins is in an alley. [both laugh] You might know what happens next. Okay, yeah, so Virgil is holding a knife up to his throat, and Virgil's giving this little monologue that's just generally about how "This world that you're in is completely meaningless. How do you live this? There's no God here. There's nothing greater than yourselves. There's nothing but dirt when you die. There's no magic. You should thank me for killing you and putting you out of your misery!" And then he slits his throat and then uses the blood to call on Raphael. And while this is happening, there's an unhoused guy in the alley who's hiding out and watching this entire thing.

G: I just realized, the reason why Jensen and Jared are not talking is for funny reasons, but also specifically so they can hammer home the thing that they will lean on later with like, [overlapping] "Wow! And in this universe, we're not even brothers." [laughing] which is amazing to me.

C: If you stayed, you would be. [G: Yeah!] But anyway, Sam and Dean go back to the Padalecki house, and when they come in, Gen runs out crying, screaming, mascara down her face, going, "Oh my god! Oh my god! Misha! He's been stabbed to death!"

G: Correction, Genevieve Padalecki. He has not been stabbed to death. His throat was slit. Those are different things.

C: A knife went inside of him.

G: Well, it barely. It gently slid across his throat. Those are different things.

C: No, you're right, you're right. And Sam and Dean look at each other, and then in unison, say, "Where?"

G: Love it.

C: Love it! So they go out to the alley. They see, you know, the body, and then they talk to the guy who was witnessing the murder earlier, where he says that this guy was calling on Raphael. He said, "The scary man killed the attractive, crying man."

G: Love that.

C: Love that.

G: Misha Collins is not- I mean, can I say my truth? Can I speak my truth? [C: Yeah, yeah.] I don't think Misha Collins is attractive, or like, is that only because- I think Cas is attractive. I think Cas is hot. But it's it's coming from a different place. It's not coming from Misha Collins's face.

C: Yeah. His personality and the way he moves! [G: Literally.] And then he heard a voice reply, and it told Virgil to return tomorrow at the place where he crossed over at the time of the crossing, and Raphael would reach through the window and take him and the key home. Dean thanks him and gives the guy 50 Canadian dollars. I don't know. There's a moment where Dean just seems really stoked that he was generous?

G: No, I think he's stoked that he they don't have to pretend to be FBI, they don't have to put in the work, they can just give this guy 50 Canadian dollars. [C: Oh, maybe.] And then Sam says a very important line. He goes, "Wow. If Virgil gets back with the key, Cas is dead and our world is toast." Cas has primacy in this fucking sentence! [C: He does.] Hell yeah, [both] Sastiel win.

C: Yeah. And Dean's like, "He won't be that difficult to deal with. He doesn't have any powers." But in the world of Supernatural, [laughs] you know what's more important than powers? [G: Is having a fucking gun.] A really big gun.

G: Yeah. Unfortunately for them, he does have a bigger gun. Also, I kind of love this scene where we learn that Virgil was the weapons keeper of Heaven. So the thing is, Virgil's buying a bigass gun, and the clerk tells him, "Wow! You really know your way around bigass guns." And he goes, "I'm the weapons keeper of Heaven" and then knocks this guy out. I think it's pretty cool.

C: He also just shoots the next person who walks in to the store.

G: Yeah, he shoots a lot of people unnecessarily. It did make me- It rang a bell in my head that's like, "Oh, no!" [laughs] I mean, obviously, you know what I mean, right? He does have a public shooting scene in this episode. [C: Yeah.] Yeah, so.

C: Yeah, I guess- I don't know. I don't know what the discourse around gun violence was in 2010, 2011? Yeah, I don't know. He kills Misha Collins because he needs the blood of somebody to talk to Raphael. That one makes sense to me. But I don't know. The rest of the killings just seem a little bit [G: Unnecessary.] excessive, and they're more of a problem than just sneaking in regular style or whatever. [G: Yeah.] And I don't know. The point is just, "Oh, he's a bad guy!"

G: Yeah, that's true. No complexity whatsoever.

C: Yeah. He has the thing how he thinks that none of the lives in this universe matter because there's no God.

G: That's true, they did kind of explain it that way.

C: Yeah, so this is just stomping on ants for him.

G: Yeah. I mean, he is an angel, so it probably is stomping on ants for him regardless.

C: Yeah, but I don't think he's killing people willy-nilly on Earth, back in his universe, this much.

G: That's true, probably.

C: Okay. Also, I love how, okay, he's the weapons keeper for Heaven, and he knows so much about bigass guns, which means that in Heaven, the weapons are also bigass guns?

G: No, yeah, that's why I love it! That's why I love it! Cas ate a bunch of guns in this episode! [C laughs]

C: But yeah, I do wish that Virgil had a little bit more going on, but I don't know. It's just the general problem of they never really give Raphael a good reason for what he's doing. I mean, they let him monologue in Season 5, and then after that it's just like, "Oh, he's evil! And then here's his employee, and he's evil! And also, they're people of color, just coincidentally! Weird!"

G: Yeah. Anyway, Sam and Dean are in the set again. They're waiting. And Dean says, "You know, there's a possibility that we might be stuck here, and that's it." And Sam is insistently going, "No, we'll get back." But Dean says, "It's probably fine for you if you don't because look at here. There's no Hell, you know, you're married to Ruby. You're a bazillionaire."

C: Most of these things apply to you, too, Dean. I don't know. His whole focus on, "Oh, Sam, I bet you would be fine staying here." What is it? It's just his bitterness about Sam going to Stanford?

G: Yeah, no, I don't know. I think- I mean, it is because it is Sam that they showed the life of just by virtue of Jared is the one married to Genevieve, so.

C: Yeah. But there's also, there's the "No Hell above us-" or, "No Hell below us, above us, only sky." That's true for Dean also, and being a bazillionaire is also true.

G: Yeah. I mean, didn't- I was waiting for Sam to go, "Well, you, too, Dean. Don't you want to stay here? Why not?" Yeah. But they don't do it.

C: Sam says that he wants to go because "Our friends are in the other world." Who? Who, Sam?

G: Who are the friends? Who are the friends?

C: Like, Cas?

G: Bobby? That's your coworker. I mean, it is probably Cas because he does say that "Cas is gonna die over there if we do nothing." So probably it's just Cas.

C: Aw, Sastiel!

G: That's so sweet, yeah. Also, I love that Dean says that "The hits have been coming for you since you were six months old," [C: Like, real.] and it's so true. And Sam- I actually really this line. Every time I love Supernatural, I'm like, "Augh! Why do I love Supernatural?" But Sam says, "You're right, but we just don't mean the same thing here. I mean, we're not even brothers here, man." I appreciated it. I loved it. It made me feel an emotion.

C: I understand the feeling and emotion. [laughs] I don't think the logic works out.

G: Yeah, I mean, they are technically still brothers if they stay here.

C: Yeah. "And we just don't mean the same thing here" being like, "Oh, we're not needed as hunters here." That's a good thing! [laughs] You understand that that's a good thing, right?

G: Yeah, but if they're here, then they're not on the other world, hunting monsters.

C: The other world is gonna blow up immediately, anyway. That should be the focus.

G: That's true. Yeah. Anyway, Dean goes, "Yeah, okay."

-

C: So we're back on the Supernatural set, and Eric Kripke, who's not played by Eric Kripke, shows up. And they're like, "Oh my god! It's so sad that Misha Collins died. But, hey, we got on the front page of Variety for it! Hell yeah!"

G: Yeah, and they just alternate between, "Isn't that so cool?" "Yeah, but it's awful." "No, yeah, it's awful. But at least, right?" "Yeah!" [laughs] It's so funny

C: And Eric Kripke's like, "Okay, I'm just gonna go into the J2 trailer and make them be good actors again!" And then Virgil approaches. And Eric Kripke's like, "Oh, it's the extra that they almost beat to death. Let's go talk to him and settle this." But he has a gun.

G: And as he's walking, it's in slow motion.

C: Yeah, there's Western movie music.

G: And he shoots Eric three times, I think, just like Peter. [laughs] And Eric Kripke falls to the ground, and then he shoots Bob Singer as well. People dying left and right.

C: Yeah. He uses the big gun to kill Eric Kripke, and then he pulled out [both] a smaller gun from his coat to kill Bob Singer.

G: [laughs] Yeah, apparently you need a smaller gun. Who would have thunk?

C: So true. And then he's on the Supernatural set. He shoots a bunch of the crew for literally no reason whatsoever. Sam and Dean are there. They start beating him up. Sam grabs the key back. The sigil on the window starts glowing again because I guess it's the same time that Virgil came in yesterday, and Sam and Dean jump through it, and there's a freeze frame.

G: Yeah, the freeze drive is so fun. I loved it.

-

G: They land outside the motel that Virgil went in from, and Raphael walks towards them and Dean points out that Raphael has a woman vessel by going, "Nice meat suit." And then, after a beat, turns to Sam and goes, "Dude looks like a lady." What is wrong with them?

C: What's happening to the world? Ugh.

G: Anyway, Raphael picks up the key, and then Balthazar shows up, and he goes, "Yeah, and that key will open you a locker at the Albany bus station." And he explains that what he did was set up a decoy so that Virgil will be running after a fetch quest that isn't gonna come to pass. And Raphael is supposed to go to Balthazar and, I don't know, smite him, I guess, when Cas shows up. And Cas goes, "Step away from him."

C: Is Balthazar misogynistic to Raphael now? Because he calls him "darling" and "honey" very pointedly, and it doesn't feel like his the typical gay man fare.

G: I think it's also that he's British, right? Like, British people say-

C: "Honey"'s not British.

G: Really?

C: "Darling," I think, is British. I don't think "honey" is British.

G: I mean, does he call Cas anything other than Cassie?

C: I don't think so.

G: Yeah. Well, I mean, there's a possibility. But Cas shows up, and he's like, "I have the weapons now! I ate them!" No, but how is the power with him? Did he eat them?

C: Yeah, sure. Why not?

G: No, because the souls. You have to eat the souls to get their power. [C: Yeah.] So like, did he eat the weapons?

C: Yeah, 'cause he said, "Their power is with me," and there's the lightning flash with the shadow of his wings, and we're supposed to think that, what? His wings are buffer than they were before or something?

G: The scene is wonderful. I always love when Cas's wings show up.

C: I don't think they're that impressive, though. They're not 4.01 impressive.

G: Yeah, they're not. But I just love when we're reminded that Cas is an angel, like we are every time he shows up, but even more so when we see his wings. [C: Yeah.] I mean, I don't think- I do wonder, because the wings is supposed to be a show of might, right? But you're right that the wings are not impressive., so I don't know. But he has powers now. And Cas just goes, "If you don't want to die tonight, back off." And Raphael disappears. And Balthazar says a line that I also like. He tells Cas, "Okay, well, now that you have your sword, try not to die by it." [C: Yeah.] And Cas zaps Sam and Dean back to Bobby's house, and Sam realizes that his best fwiend Castiel did this on purpose. He knows that they were being used as a diversion. Cas goes, "Well, it was Balthazar's plan. I would have done the same thing." And then he turns around, [laughs] and he looks at Dean, and he looks at Dean for the rest- entirety of this duration. The duration of this entire scene.

C: Dean's the one who's talking to him.

G: Yeah, but like-

C: Whatever. Love is love.

G: Yeah. [laughs] So anyway, Dean says, "That's not comforting." when Cas goes, "When will I be able to make you understand? If I lose against Raphael, we all lose everything." So, you know, it's "we." And then Dean goes, "We know the stakes." It's also "we." [laughs] "That's all about you've told us." And Cas looks at him for an extended bit, and it's just him. He doesn't even glance towards Sam. You know, the reason why I'm bitter about this is because Sam is the one who has been thinking about Castiel.

C: No, literally. Dean was like, "Oh, you'd probably be fine just staying here." And Sam was like, "No! Cas is gonna die! We have to get back to our friend Cas!"

G: But literally, Dean and Cas are the only one looking at each other. They both have two eyes. Like, come on. Cas just disappears. He says, "I'll explain when I can." And Sam- I like this scene. Sam walks towards the wall, and then he smacks it real hard, and then he breathes out a sigh of relief. And he goes, "Yeah, it's real." Hell yeah. And Dean is like, "Yeah, well, termite-eaten home, sweet home," or something. "Full of crap that want to skin us alive. Well, you know, we're broke again, too." And Sam just goes, "Hey, at least we're talking." And then this episode ends. Kind of weird. Kind of weird, if I'm being honest. The way it ends is kind of weird

C: Is it?

G: You know how Supernatural always ends with a "The thing is... we may be losing hope, but as long as we stick together, we're gonna be fine." So every time that an episode ends not like that, I'm like, "Wow, they're really experimental." [laughs]

C: That is how it ends! "So at least we're talking" is "As long as we stick together, it's all gonna be fine."

G: That's true, but it is still experimental to me. Well, what did we think about this episode?

C: I laughed, I cheered.

G: Yeah, I chuckled.

C: Yeah. I giggled

G: Hell yeah, You tee-heed.

C: Yeah, yeah. I don't think it's the greatest, but most of- half of the jokes land.

G: Yeah, I would say that this episode is funnier to watch than to listen and have a podcast about. [C: Yeah.] So I'm sorry to everyone who listened to this episode, only for me to end it with [laughs] "You should have just watched it," but you kind of should have. So yeah, there we go.

C: It would take less time out of your day, too.

G: Yeah. But the thing is, when you're watching a show, you have to be looking at the screen while you're watching it, whereas a podcast where you can be doing fuck all whatever, literally anything, and could be listening to a podcast. So yeah, thank you for listening to us, I suguess. I suggess? I guess.

Best Line/Worst Line. My best line is "We're not even brothers here, man." I liked it. I liked it. I liked it!

C: You pointed out Balthazar's "Now you have your sword. Don't die by it." or whatever. I think that was fun.

G: Yeah. What's your worst line? I think I just really hate the face that Misha Collins makes before he turns into Castiel. I understand that that's not a line, [C laughs] but to me, it filled me with rage and vitriol. So there we go.

C: My worst line was Dean's whole "You didn't do too bad for yourself because you married a hot woman!"

G: Yeah, it is weird.

C: They never comment on Ruby's attractiveness in the show, do they? Which like, I'm glad that they don't, but just the fact that it now comes up now that it's Gen Padalecki just feels weird.

G: Oh, spreadsheets. Spread those sheets. Okay, so what's our BABPod scores? Writer Sins, Season 6. I think this one does have misogyny. I would say the Sera Gamble, I would say the interaction with Raphael.

C: Yeah. And the Gen Padalecki stuff.

G: Yeah. So a 3, one for each?

C: Why not?

G: Hell yeah.

Racism, I do think, as you pointed out, Virgil being like, "Oh, we're introducing another angel who is not white, and just like the previous angel we introduced that's not white, he's also evil."

C: He's evil. He's so violent and scary, and he's not even a crying, attractive man. 2?

G: 2? Okay.

C: 3? How do you feel about it? 3?

G: I'm leaning more towards 3.

C: Yeah, let's do 3.

G: Well, homophobia.

C: Homophobia, I think-

G: I think there is.

C: I think there is.

G: Air of homophobia. They were boiling homophobia on one side of the room.

C: It was like La Croix, homophobia-flavored.

G: Yeah. And they're fanning the fumes onto this episode.

C: Yeah! The fumes are inherent, but they're also only fumes, you know? Where is it?

G: I'll give it a 2. I'll give it a 2.

C: Okay, okay. IMDb. I am that Db.

G: Well, ratings. This is an odd episode, so it is yours. It's yours for the take. No, is that right?

C: Yeah, I'm odd. Okay, I think it's high.

G: Of course.

C: Okay. Our last high ones were "Appointment in Samarra" and "Weekend at Bobby's," which both got 9.1s. I think this one's a little more iconic than "Weekend at Bobby's." I don't know if it's necessarily higher, but I'm just gonna say 9.2 for fun.

G: I'm gonna go a 9.5. I'm going big, and I will never go home.

C: Oh, you're probably right.

G: So- Boohoohoo, it's 9.6. Yes!

C: Nice. Why did you say Boohoohoo?

G: I have no idea. I was gonna say "boo" because I was preparing for you to be right, so just so you know that I really believe in you as a person.

C: Thank you.

G: Yeah, people are saying it's funny, it's fan service done right, as this one review says. "The in-jokes are constant, but they're funny even if you're not in on all of the jokes," which I do agree with, and I think it's-

C: But we're both in? How would we know?

G: [laughs] I mean, you were not in on some of them, so.

C: Which ones?

G: [laughs] You don't know that their bodyguard's name is Cliff. To be fair, that is an insane thing to know.

C: It's not even a joke!

G: I think it is a reference-

C: It's just an Easter egg that he's played by their actual body guard.

G: Is that what it's called? What is a joke? Define a joke! What is a joke?

C: It has to be funny? [G laughs] Or have the intention of being funny?

G: What if it's fun but not funny?

C: I don't think it's a joke, then.

G: That's true, perhaps. "Tied for my favorite Supernatural episode." What's the other one? Oh, the other episode is the Scooby-Doo episode. These people just loves funny. "Scoobynatural"-

C: You know, there's sitcoms out there that you could just watch if you just wanted things to be funny.

G: But sometimes you want things to be funny and also watch an episode where a bugman funeral happens. [C: Fair.] I loved "Optimism." It's so good. It's such a good- Do you want- Let's skip [laughs] to Season 14, Episode whatever "Optimism" is in.

C: So true, why not? Who's this reviewer who gave it 1 out of 10 and then said, "Great episode" and only said positive things. Did they just click wrong?

G: I think they just clicked wrong. Oh, this one says it's "silly and overrated rip-off of Wes Craven's New Nightmare."

C: "They literally gave us bits and pieces of their real life, including Ruby/Genevieve and Sam being married. Then Cas, Misha and his cardigans, looking all timid and fragile." [laughs] So true.

G: Is it true?

C: I don't think he looks that timid or fragile

G: I don't think he looks timid or fragile. This one says they're disappointed that the producers and others didn't actually play their respective roles. That's because they're not in SAG! That's that's the reason, right? You have to be part of the actor's guild to be an actor? To act in an episode? That's why-

C: So their bodyguard is?

G: What?

C: So their bodyguard is in SAG?

G: Oh, no, that's not their actual bodyguard. It's an actor. [laughs]

C: Okay, so wait, the fun fact is just his name?

G: Yeah!

C: I don't think that counts as a fun thing!

G: [laughing] I think it's fun! I think it's fun. The only actor for the crew that was in the actual episode is the stunt coordinator, I'm assuming because he's a stunt actor, so he has to be in the actor's guild. So that's the only one they got. Even Sera Gamble's voice was not actually Sera Gamble.

This one is 1 over 10, and it seems to be actually negative. "The show really jumped the shark. This time the episode was boring, irritating, and self-indulgent, trying to capitalize on the meta trend." This was in 2020- [laughs] this review was in 2022. [both laugh] "Trying to capitalize on the meta trend. The way they did was awkward and unpleasant, acknowledging how ridiculously long the show was was off-putting to those who agreed with the assessment. The toxic, narcissistic, and shallow way the crew was depicted wasn't funny or witty, and the saddest thing is, it didn't look so far from the truth, either. [both laugh] So were they trying to lose the audience or simply test their dedication to the show? Yeah, Season 6 is entertaining but too on the surface of things. So did they really think an episode being self-aware of that was the right way to go to keep viewers invested ten more seasons? Too many cooks in the kitchen and not enough time for a souffle. It's one of those episodes that brings me back to my overall impression of the show, and it clearly isn't a good one." It's 2022, dude. You know there's 15 seasons. You can just not have watched. [C laughs]

C: I respect the haterism.

G: I have less respect for the haterism than you do.

Well, I think that’s it for this episode of Busty Asian Beauties. Next week, let’s pray, [laughs] we will be discussing "And Then There Were None." Leave us a rating or a review wherever you get your podcasts.

C: Follow us on social media! We are on Tumblr at bustyasianbeauty- bleh. We are on Tumblr at bustyasianbeautiespod.tumblr.com. Thanks to everyone who's donated to our Ko-Fi at ko-fi.com/bustyasianbeautiespod, and check out our merch at babpod.redbubble.com.

G: You can email us any feedback, comments, or inquiries at bustyasianbeautiespod@gmail.com. See you guys next time! [both] Bye!

[guitar music]

[bustyasianbeautiespod]

Episode 119: He Only Got Two Eyes

Today, Crystal & Grey discuss Supernatural 6.15 - The French Mistake. We talk about: buying a leather journal, Dean's feelings about the world which literally could be anything except the things that they are not, and if it's gay to be in Canada.

Transcript

[bustyasianbeautiespod]

Episode 118 Transcript: Plants Vs. Zombies

[intro guitar music]

G: Hello, it's Grey.

C: Hello, it's Crystal.

G: And this is Busty Asian Beauties, a Supernatural commentary podcast where I, someone who has seen the show many times...

C: And I, someone who only knows the show through social media, discuss every single episode of Supernatural from start to finish. Also, we are both Asian.

G: Both Asian! For today's episode, we will be discussing Season 6, Episode 14: "Mannequin 3: The Reckoning," written by Eric Charmelo and Nicole Snyder, directed by Jeannot Szwarc.

C: New director.

G: New director, and he is going to be around a little bit. Apparently, he has episodes until Season 10, but just one per episode.

C: One per season?

G: Yes, one per season. He directed "LARP and the Real Girl," an important episode.

C: Yeah. And then an unimportant episode.

G: Well, important, nonetheless. Paper Moon, which is a wonderful restaurant. [both laugh] Do you know? Is there a Paper Moon in the United States?

C: [typing] Not that I know of. Let me look up "paper moon restaurant."

G: It's a cafe. They have wonderful- I think it's a Japanese restaurant, but they have- You know how a lot of Japanese restaurants have French-inspired dessert for some reason? And these are- they have crepe cakes. If you remember, in my last birthday I was like, "I'm getting a crepe cake for my cake for my birthday," it was from this coffee shop. Not coffee shop. Cafe. [C: I see.] Wonderful place, yeah. So that's a little bit of lore for me. This episode aired in Feb 18, and our episode is gonna come out in February 15, so we're catching up with Supernatural!

C: That's true, that's true. We're on the schedule.

G: Yeah. Happy Valentine's Day to everyone listening!

C: True. These writers, this is only their second episode after "You Can't Handle the Truth." [G laughs] So a lot of newbies here.

G: Well, Eric Charmelo, as you know, is so important to us. And Nicole Snyder! They're a combo through the end, I think.

C: Yeah, they're writing partners.

G: Yeah. And they wrote "Dog Dean Afternoon."

C: So their thing is just that they write deeply unserious episodes.

G: You never know. What if "Dog Dean Afternoon" really is such a good episode? I have been saying it is.

C: It can be, and deeply unserious at the same time.

G: This episode doesn't ring a bell for you, I don't think.

C: No, I don't think I was aware of a single thing that happened in it. For good reason, I think.

G: Well, nothing happens, first and foremost. I think it's just a little bit so corny. [laughs]

C: I mean, a lot happens regarding the Dean/Lisa storyline, so if we knew people who were invested in that, we would assume that that would come up, but-

G: Yeah, but you know.

C: I mean, I guess I've seen the the clip of her opening the door in her date outfit just in a "people think she's hot" way, but I feel that's all I've seen of this episode.

G: Maybe you've seen it in an AMV just they do in the middle of this episode. [both laughing]

C: Oh my god! [laughing]

G: So iconic. So iconic. So iconic.

C: I couldn't believe that was happening.

G: [laughs] I was like, "Remember when we kept on insulting the Road So Far these past few eps?"

C: Yeah. We didn't know how good we had it.

G: It's because they were reserving their parallelism powers for this moment. They were reserving their energy for this thing. And that's important.

C: Is it? [G laughs]

G: It was so stupid, but many things in this episode are like, what are we doing?

C: It was stupid. The case made no sense.

G: The case was so stupid. I did love- I loved the twist of the case. [laughs]

G: Oh, I do think it was fun that it was the kidney.

G: It was wonderful that it was a kidney.

C: Yeah. And then Dean accidentally totally murders that woman. [laughs]

G: Also, this episode is reminiscent to "Yellow Fever," isn't it?

C: In terms of people bullying one person to death?

G: Yeah, bullying one person.

C: Though I would say that her falling and hitting her head and instantly dying [laughs] is different-

G: No, yeah. Because what I was dreading was they do something similar to "Yellow Fever" where they're like, "Oh, you know, this victim is the ghost, therefore..." but they actually handle it with a form of complexity this episode. They were like-

C: Is "a form of complexity" Dean accidentally killing someone, and then the ghost being, "I'm so sad, I'm gonna ghost-kill myself"?

G: I think the complexity is Sam and Dean going, "What the hell. [both laugh] What the hell is this? What the fuck are we even doing here?" I think that's super fun.

This episode, it's one of those episodes that, while you're watching it, you're like, "What is this?" But the more you think about it after, you're like, "That was fine. I enjoyed!" And I did enjoy.

C: Speak for yourself. [both laugh]

G: No, yeah, I think I am mistaking my personal experiences for general ones, and what else can we do as people?

C: I mean, I can say about this episode that I laughed a lot.

G: I did laugh laugh a lot.

C: And that's something that's joyful.

G: Yeah. When Sam was like, "Something in you that is of her," I was like, "Yes!! It's gonna be a transplant thing!" [C: Hell yeah.] I was so excited. And when she got fucking stabbed in the stomach, I was like, "Yes!"

C: I think stabbed in the kidney specifically is what they were going for? [G: That's true.] Just on accident through a sharp glass that's Dean's fault?

G: I mean, I just didn't like it because it didn't look the stab went through fully, and your kidneys are in the back. [C: Hm.] So she should have been stabbed in the back, like, lower back.

C: So true.

G: Yeah, that's why if you're having lower back pain, and you think it may not just be regular lower back pain, get a checkup or something. I don't know. Recommendation! [laughs] This is not official health advice.

-

G: We start the episode. We have Lisa in the "Then" sequence, and that's pretty much the only thing that is of relevance, but a fascinating thing is there is a cold open to this episode, but it split in two because we pick up where we left off last episode, and Sam is on the floor and Dean's shaking him awake, and he is just- he's there. He's lying there. Maybe he's dead. Who knows? Well, we know, because he wakes up a minute later. He's there, having fun. He's not having fun. [C laughs] He's there, he gets held up, etc, etc. Then we go directly to this science lab. And later, it's revealed that it's a college science lab, which is a little bit wild to me.

C: Oh, I could tell.

G: No, I mean it was- it felt very high school-y is the vibe, you know? Later, they make a comment about how they don't really dissect anything in there. [C: Yeah.] So I was like, "Oh, it's a high school place," but it's not. It's a university. And it's vital to the part that it was? Okay, fine. Is a college different from university in the United States? I know that it's different in the UK?

C: I think college refers to an undergraduate institution, and a university refers to the whole institution, including the undergrad and graduate schools, if both exist.

G: So what's up with the UK? What are they doing over there? Important things.

C: I don't know.

G: Yeah. Shocker that we're not both British. There's a guy who's mopping the floor. There's fucking mannequin behind him that's a human [C: Anatomy-] anatomy figure, yeah. And this mannequin has big, wet, beautiful eyes. [both laugh] And his eyes start following the janitor around the room. And then the janitor's head gets sliced open, and he notices as the blood drips out on the floor, starts screaming, and then he gets attacked by the fucking mannequin. RIP.

C: We cut to outside, and Sam and Dean are chatting about Sam's whole passing out thing. You know, Dean's trying to make him feel better with "joe, grub," and some kind of mysterious pills that Sam doesn't want to take.

G: What is a joe?

C: Joe is coffee.

G: Ooh. Oh, yeah, it's a cup of joe. Why? What an ominous thing to say now that I think about it! Cup of joe?

C: Because you think it means somebody killed somebody named Joe? [G laughs]

G: Yeah.

C: To Dean, it was a two to three minute pass-out. To Sam, he says that it felt like a week. He should not be this calm right now, I think. But Supernatural is famously the "person was in Hell for 200 years and they come out completely normal" show, so. [both laugh]

G: To be fair, Sam did not come out completely normal. [laughs] That is the entire point. Well, not the entire point, but most of the point of Season 6 and 7.

C: Yeah, if we view Sam as not just his soul. Or, well, okay, or you just mean that- yeah, he will be going through struggles and such in the future as well.

G: Yeah. I do wonder, because Heaven doesn't seem to have a time, does it? I mean, they make that argument in Season 15. It's such a fucking stupid fucking ending, as we all know.

C: What do you mean by "a time"?

G: Like, there's no equivalence.

C: Oh, it's not like "I was in Heaven for this long, and it felt like this long."

C: Yeah, because, Heaven is just a rotation of memories, so it's not like you can gauge how long or whatever. But Purgatory is the same amount of time, which is very fun. It's a fun idea that Purgatory is basically Earth on a different plane. That's fun.

C: Yeah, Heaven should be faster, then. I guess it would feel faster because you forget each memory as soon as it passes to the next one to keep you entertained, I assume?

G: Yeah. But what if the memory is good, but the experience is bad? I feel you need to have the knowledge that you're reliving a memory for memories to be good, right?

C: Is that true?

G: What if your good memory is an afternoon that you think back fondly on because you don't have that friend anymore, but it's not a particularly fun one?

C: Oh, so you were having a horrible time, and the friend was mean to you, but it's a good memory in retrospect. They probably just wouldn't pick that one.

G: It's just a normal time. We're just having a normal time. But it's the retrospect of it all. It's like, "Wow, remember those afternoons we spent as children?" You know what I mean?

C: Yeah. They probably just don't pick those ones, then. I don't know.

G: Wow! What horrible choices are they making in this show?

C: But yeah, Sam's like, "Well, I didn't enjoy feeling like I was being tortured the worst that anybody ever has in the entire universe for a week, but I'm fine!" And he acts totally fine for the rest of the episode. And Dean's saying Sam needs to stop kicking around in his past because if the wall breaks again he could die, and also that sucked. And Sam's like, "No. Dean, I might have done who knows what, and you want me to just forget about it?" And Dean advises that he shove it down and let it come out in spurts of violence and alcoholism because it works for him.

G: That's a wild thing to say. [C: Yeah.] And I understand that the concept of violence is killing an evil monster who's so evil and a monster, [C laughs] but it's still a wild thing to say, I would say.

C: Yeah, agreed. I don't know. I'm trying to think about the way that violence plays a role in Dean's life. Mostly just through hunting. Sometimes he yells at people? I don't really know.

G: And Sam, he's like, "Who gave a shit?" Dean said this, and he was like, "You're right, Dean." [both laugh] What's that about?

C: I mean, Sam says, "Yeah, sure," which isn't enthusiastic agreement.

G: Well, he says, "That sounds healthy," which is a "Come on, Dean."

C: But he agrees to stop kicking around in his past when Dean reminds him that his life is on the line.

G: It's always fascinating to me because Dean also spent time in Hell, and it's like, I don't know. I mean, it's probably on purpose that he's not bringing it up, but it's just a little bit- Is that where the advice is coming from? He's like, "I also went to Hell."

C: Yeah, probably.

G: Who do you think has it worse right now? Dean, who remembers the forty years, or Sam, who remembers the one week?

C: Um, I don't know.

G: Yeah, let's play a competition. Who has the worse-

C: Dean has some distance from it.

G: Yeah, that's true.

C: But yeah, I don't know how that really plays out.

G: I think we also just are not sure how acute- how severe- what Sam's memories are. Because-

C: Well, we saw him burning and screaming, that's about it.

G: Yeah, but at the beginning of the episode, when they're zooming out of Sam's brain, it was like there was a gate that closed or something. There was a visual of something passing over. And I was like, "Oh, is this being locked away again? Is the wall sealing that off again?" which I thought was fascinating.

C: Yeah. Well, if he remembers that it felt like a week, he probably remembers that moment.

-

C: So Dean pulls up the case of the janitor, and they go over to that college lab. Dean's messing around with the mannequin, and it stares at him creepily. Then he-

G: He pulls out the heart, and he he turns to Sam and goes, "Be my valentine?" which I love because this is his just go-to joke [C: True.] whenever he handles a heart of some kind because he also says this in "My Bloody Valentine." He thinks he's so funny. And then, when Sam was like, "Dean, put it back," Dean goes, "Have a heart!" [laughs] That was fun to me, personally. [C laughs]

C: Yeah. Well, Dean gets a call from Lisa and rejects it.

G: No, that is so rude and mean, and horrible!

C: No, I really don't get it. She says later that she called him six times, and he ignored it? Why?

G: Why is that? It's just- Is it at some point, he was like, "If she's rejecting me, I have to twist it in a way where it's my choice and it's my benevolence that is causing this."

C: I mean, what he tells Ben seems to be just that he realized that it was better for the Braedens if he stayed out of their lives, so it could just be a "Eventually, she'll stop and move on." But then, when she did stop and move on, he came in extremely jealous, so.

G: What a horrible scene! I hated it.

C: No, yeah, they really made decisions about the Deanlisa relationship that I didn't really view as parts of the Deanlisa relationship.

G: Yeah. "Oh, you're gonna go out and fuck a doctor? Eugh!"

C: Well, but then he tells Ben, "It's okay. Your mom's an adult, and she can go out and fuck a doctor." [laughs]

G: Yeah. I never want to know what anyone who I was ever involved with, who they're dating now. Not once in my life. So I just do not understand this impulse of Dean to be like, "So who is he?" Who wants to know that?

C: Eh, I mean, is it not coming from the same emotional place? Not wanting to know and wanting to know?

G: Is it? What what emotional place am I coming from, Crystal?

C: I don't- I don't know. [G laughs] What emotional place are you coming from? I think either way, it's like, "I will be upset from knowing." But sometimes, you want to purposefully upset yourself because you feel you have more control over the situation if you have the information that upsets you.

G: So then just stalk the guy. Just stalk the doctor. You don't have to ask her. [both laugh]

C: So true. That's a better method. Go do that, Dean.

G: [laughs] Yeah.

C: Sam totally clocks that Dean has rejected a call from Lisa. And this starts the thing where, this episode, he keeps sort of pushing Dean to talk to her in a way that I do think is cute. I think it's nice in a "Well, let's stop focusing on my problems and focus on your problems, Dean" way. Yeah, I think it's supposed to be in contrast to, you know, how [overlapping] soulless Sam's like, "I pretend to care about Lisa and Ben, but I don't! I couldn't care less about them!" [both laugh]

G: Truly an iconic moment.

C: Yeah, truly an iconic moment. But yeah, no. He's back to the wanting to help Dean emotionally, I think feeling good about knowing that he can create a positive change there, and then also just being a bit teasing like he was with Cassie in Season 1. It's cute. But yeah, Sam's like, "You should just talk to her!" and Dean's like, "Fuck off." Sam's EMF starts going off really loudly near the mannequin, but they can't really figure out what might be triggering it. They spot a security camera and look at the footage, but it blacks out at the moment the janitor starts freaking out about a few drops coming down his head, and then it just shows up again with him down on the floor. Meanwhile, there's a brief scene where Sam has come back from interviewing the janitor's girlfriend. Found no dirt on the guy at all, and they also didn't find anything weird about the lab building.

G: Yeah. Then we go to this mannequin factory, [C laughs] and there's a guy there who gets killed the same way as earlier.

C: And he's Asian!

G: He's Asian, I forgot to say, oh my god. He is Asian! Wonderful.

C: Yay!

G: Love is love.

C: Sure. [laughs] #Homophobia.

G: Why is it homophobic?

C: Oh, because I said, "[reluctantly] Sure!" like that. [G laughs]

C: Yeah, exact same way. Starts with the cut on the head. It's the same pattern.

G: So Sam and Dean are there, and they're like, "Wow! It's a mannequin factory. There's a mannequin in the science lab." Sam's like, "What if they're the same thing?" Anyway, Dean, he refuses to believe it for a bit, but Sam says, you know, "If ghosts can possess humans or whatever-" Can ghosts possess humans?

C: I think. Didn't one possess Sam in "Asylum"?

G: Oh, yeah! Yeah. Well, he's saying, "If ghosts can possess humans, then why cannot a ghost possess a human?" So I don't know.

C: A mannequin? [G laughs]

G: He's saying that if ghosts can possess people, then surely they can possess objects. But the issue is that they seem to be in two different counties, and that's an issue, somehow.

C: They typically usually don't travel that far from the objects or body that they're haunting, I think is supposed to be the point?

G: Yeah. But what is the radius of that?

C: Yeah, I don't know, because it's not like- A lot of ghosts they end up burning the bodies, and those are sort of far away sometimes. I'm not really sure.

G: Yeah, what's the radius? And also, is the county line really the [C laughs]- Do ghosts respect borders? What's this about it?

C: No, I think Dean's just talking figuratively about them being far away.

G: So true, maybe. Anyway, it's three towns over, is what he says. I mean, they do the thing where, when they're doing the maps, they figure out the center of all the attacks. But I think a lot of those are for physical monsters, so maybe not. And what Sam says is- Or what Dean says is this guy doesn't really have anything on him as well, nothing suspicious. But what Sam finds is that in the year ago, in this town or whatever, there was a lady named Rose Brown, who is a seamstress in the mannequin shop, and she just went missing. So they're like, "Maybe this is a lead." And Sam's like, "I'm gonna go talk to her sister Isabel." But then Dean's phone starts ringing for Lisa again. And Sam says, "Why don't you just go, Dean? There's nothing wrong with going," blah blah blah.

C: Well-

G: Oh, no, no, no.

C: No.

G: Wait. When does he say that? He says that, right?

C: Well, he says that after Dean answers the phone, and it appears to be an emergency.

G: Okay. So phone starts ringing again. It's Lisa. And Sam tells Dean to answer it. And Dean finally does. And he answers the phone; he's kind of mad. He's like, "Lisa!" But it's not Lisa. It's Ben. And Ben is saying that something is wrong with Lisa, and Dean just needs to come over, and she won't talk to him. And Dean's like, "Okay, put me on the phone." And Ben's like, "I can't! She won't even come to the phone!" He's really putting his all in this performance. [C laughs]

C: Spoilers.

G: What?

C: I said "spoilers!" but as a joke because we always do spoilers. It's fine.

G: Sam starts arguing that "You can just go. I'm not gonna die here or whatever." The argument Sam says is "I had to deal with my past, and so you have to deal with yours." And Dean is saying, "That worked out horribly. This is horrible advice!" But Sam insists, so Dean goes. It is horrible advice.

C: To go? [G laughs] I don't think it's horrible advice. There's a kid calling and saying that he needs help.

G: I don't think it's a horrible advice, but I think the analogy Sam is using with "I had to deal with my past, and now you have to!" is like, what are we doing here, Sam?

C: I think that yeah, the situations are not akin to each other, but I feel this is the classic Sam behavior of asking somebody how they feel so he doesn't have to talk about how he feels.

G: No, I do love that. I always love that. He's like, "See, it's just each other for real. Therefore I don't have to look at myself at all!"

C: Yup. Good for him. So he goes to interview Isabel, and Isabel really loves Rose, but she says that people often gave her a hard time because she was shy and awkward. She also says that Rose did more for her than anybody else ever could, parentheses "gave a kidney," but we don't know that yet.

G: Yeah, she's just being mysterious for now.

C: Yeah. And she has this photo album that Sam looks through. And there's this company Christmas party photo. And Rose is there, the Security guard, who was Asian, who died, is there, and the janitor at the very beginning is also there.

G: And the janitor and the Asian guy are hugging each other, and I was, "Wow! Love is love." [both laugh]

C: So true.

G: And it is! It is love.

C: Yeah. And Sam learns that basically everyone in town works at this factory, Salzman & Sons, so pretty much everybody around would have known Rose.

G: I feel like the mannequin factory is too general.

C: She was also a seamstress. Rose was a seamstress there, right? I don't think it's actually a factory that produces mannequins. I think it's just a clothing factory that they have mannequins to model the clothes on or something?

G: That is- I'm not sure that's true, but it could just be that they need to dress up the mannequins, and so they hire the seamstress.

C: Is that- You ship out mannequins to stores so that they can put their own brand of clothing on them.

G: Well, sometimes-

C: Who wants a dressed mannequin?

G: There is a huge variety of mannequins that they're working on.

C: That's fair. But yeah, what business wants to buy an already-clothed mannequin?

G: That's true. Maybe this does not exist.

C: Yeah, I'm not exactly sure what this factory does.

Sam calls Dean about this information. The janitor worked at the factory and then quit right after Rose disappeared. So Sam goes back to the factory and interviews a bunch of employees. There's a fun little montage sequence of him talking to a lot of people, and then we land on somebody named Johnny, and I guess this name is relevant, because when the security guard died, he at first thought that Johnny was playing a prank on him, so we know that they know each other.

G: Ooh! Yeah, yeah, yeah.

C: So Sam asks Johnny about working at the company, about Rose, all that, and Johnny just gets really scared right away, and he keeps asking, "Why are you asking me this?" blah blah blah. And he keeps trying to cut the interview short. And Sam just goes, "You seem nervous, Johnny." And he says, "Well, I'm upset because the guys who died were my friends!" And Sam goes, "I didn't say upset. [both] I said nervous." He thinks he's so cool.

G: Love it.

C: Very fun, yeah. And then he gives Johnny his card.

-

C: Dean rings Lisa's doorbell, and she opens the door, looking wonderful. She's wearing a black dress [G: Of course.] like an evil demon lady.

G: Of course.

C: Did she have sparkly earrings or something?

G: I think she has hoops going on.

C: Okay. She has earrings. Her hair is up. Wonderful! And she's shocked that Dean is here. And Dean goes, "Well, you look absolutely fine." and he realizes that Ben has parent trapped them.

G: I do think this is fun. [C: Yeah.] It puts Ben front and center in this dynamic, which is something that they talk about a lot. That's the reason they're staying together, and the reason why it works out is because Dean is good to Ben and Ben likes him. And is this the first time we hear Ben [C: Talk?] talk in any way meaningful?

C: Uh, possibly. No, he has the "I want to shoot guns you did at my age!" conversation with Dean, and Dean goes, "No, you'll never shoot guns I did at your age, Ben!" So that was one. Do they mention Dean shoving them at any point this episode?

G: Yeah, I don't even know. Isn't Lisa like, "Ben doesn't even talk about it" as a big issue.

C: Yeah, it was something that deeply hurt him.

G: Or it could be-

C: He's over it?

G: I think there is also the interpretation that Ben just didn't want to talk about it with Lisa because Lisa is upset about it, and he still wanted Dean to come back.

C: Yeah, I mean, I understand, Ben wanting Dean to come back even if he was deeply hurt by the Dean shoving him thing.

G: Yeah. And he does say later, "Just apologize and come back. I don't understand why that can't be the case."

C: Yeah. But I guess I just thought that that was a bigger part of the problem than this episode makes it out to be. I don't know. Ben parent trapped them because Lisa's going out on a date, and they talk in her kitchen-

G: Not only a date. On a third date. [C: Yeah.] It's a little bit wild.

C: Yeah. 'Cause Ben says, "I know what happens on third dates. I've seen TV." Who are you? Hamlet? [both laugh] Calm down! I don't think them fucking is necessarily a precursor to emotional intimacy and him moving into your life in that way. [G: Yeah.] So we go into the kitchen, and Dean immediately starts- not tearing into Lisa, but being jealous and weird when I assumed this dynamic would start with him apologizing. I guess there's an interpretation where he's just trying to push her away, but I don't think that's true, 'cause he showed up.

G: I don't think that's true, yeah.

C: I think this is just him. Yeah. So Dean asks, "So, who's the guy?" And Lisa is sorta so done with it. But she says that his name is Matt, and he's a doctor. And he goes, "Oh, Dr. Matt. How respectable."

G: And Lisa goes, "That's not what this is about."

C: Yeah, she just goes, "So this is how this is gonna be?"

G: I like that line because Dean saying, "Wow! So respectable." is a dig at himself. So Lisa being like, "That's the argument you're gonna make?" I like that because it is never about that. Lisa has never treated Dean as somehow having a not respectable job or anything. The thing is Lisa's argument for why Dean can't be there anymore is not because he's a hunter specifically. Or is it?

C: It kind of is.

G: Well, her arguments were always like, "If Sam wasn't around-"

C: Well, but this time she just goes, "I'm worried that you'll die."

G: Yeah, I suppose so. I suppose at this point, it is being a hunter.

G: I think that's an inherent hunting problem. Yeah. Which isn't what she was like earlier in the season.

G: How their relationship went- I feel like a little bit like the narrative is trying to paint the relationship as something else to try to justify what's happening and what's happened already, and it just doesn't fly that well. [C: Yeah.] I did feel like, this conversation is- Is this really who they are? Is this what we have been presented with in the past?

C: I think maybe after Lisa had the "You can go out and be a hunter and then come back to us when you have time," there's a shot of her face after Dean leaves. Maybe we were supposed to read that as "She didn't actually mean any of that. She hates this!"

G: Yeah, probably. That's a compromise that is just a little bit too far already.

C: Yeah, so- but I don't know. Okay. I guess that that is how it is.

You know, they have the whole "Why didn't you pick up?" "Well, I almost called you a hundred times." And she goes, "Good to know." And then he's like, "Well, I came here as soon as Ben called me!" [laughing] even though he rejected twenty of Ben's calls earlier that day, I think. He's like, "So I actually really do care about you!" And she says, "Doesn't help me," which I do like. I really do like the way she approaches this argument. And she tells Dean that she's not asking for anything, and Dean says, "Well then, ask for something!" which I also liked.

G: I liked that one, yeah.

C: I don't know why. It was nice.

G: I also like, because I think there is an argument to be made about how Lisa in her, you know, "You can do both of these things, Dean! You can live a double life or whatever," and, you know, condoning and allowing for that to happen, that Dean feels "If she just asked fully, then I can commit fully, but she's not asking that of me."

C: Like, you think if Lisa asked him to give up hunting, he would?

G: Like, if she gave an ultimatum, I think there's a chance that he would have tried a little bit harder.

C: Probably not now with the alphas and Purgatory, though.

G: Yeah, I don't know. Dean has this thing about being needed and whatever. And so I suppose if Lisa needed him just a little bit more and asked that of him-

C: Than the world?

G: No, just in general.

C: Need him a little bit- Oh, more than she currently does?

G: Yeah.

C: Yeah, perhaps. Yeah. And then Ben comes down into the room and they both shout, "Go to your room!" in unison, which is a cute moment. And Lisa tells Dean that she can't ask for something because she knows what she wants, but it can't happen with Dean's lifestyle, and I guess she's not willing to ask him to give that up. And she says that she's had such a hard time with this entire relationship because every time her phone rings, she's afraid that it's Sam telling her that Dean has died. [laughing] Just remembered Dean's fuckass letter to Ben that he wanted the doctor to send if he died.

G: Noo. And it's not even to Lisa.

C: Yeah. And Lisa says that she's gone through this pattern where she is okay, and then every time she's okay, Dean shows up at the door, and that he keeps doing that every time she thinks she's never gonna see him again. So that's-

G: And then they do that montage later to be like, "And these are the times!"

C: So okay, so the times. Okay, I'm assuming that she didn't have a whole having to get over Dean after their summer of love thing. So I don't think "The Kids Are Alright" counts. [G: Yeah.] But yeah, okay, they did have an emotional moment there, and then he left. So that's one. He comes back to warn her about how he's gonna say yes to Michael? [G: Yeah.] And she thinks he's gonna die for sure. That's two. Then I guess he comes back after Sam dies, stays for a year, and then leaves to hunt. That's three. But she did think that he was coming back from that one. He prommied. They were still calling. So okay, so we're at two and a half. And then he comes as a vampire and shoves her and Ben, [G laughs] and then she thinks that he's not gonna come back. So we're at three and a half. I guess that is kind of a lot. Sorry, Lisa. [G: Yeah.] Yeah. And she says that she's trying to get over him. "What are you trying to do? What do you want from us?" And then we just cut back to the case. [G laughs]

-

G: Yeah. And on the case, Johnny is on the phone going like, "Oh, the Feds are on us! And I'm nervous because Dave and Steve are dead, and blah blah blah." And as he hangs up, he gets the same fucking wound on his forehead as everyone else. But he doesn't die because Sam comes in and salts the place or something.

C: Yeah. He pulls them off to a separate room, and then yeah, salt-lines all of it.

G: He salts the fucking place, and he explains to this guy that there's a ghost trying to kill him. And Sam goes, "Thank god you're so fucking suspicious so I figured it out." And he asks, "You have to tell me what you did to Rose because she's attacking you." And so the guy explains, and we get this scene through flashback. And I was terrified about what they were going to say. [laughs]

C: Yeah, because I feel the assumption anyone would make watching this episode is gangrape and murder. But it's much chiller than that. And I'm surprised that the- Did the writers know that that is what everybody would assume would happen, so then, now that it's not that, this guy seems more sympathetic, so we're more okay with Sam trying to save him?

G: I think they worked backwards, is what I think. They thought, "Oh, the conclusion of this whole affair with the flashback would be that there's a ghost trying to kill multiple people, but who gets killed is the one innocent person involved."

C: Yeah. And also a lot of the people involved who weren't innocent.

G: Yeah. So I think they went backwards with that. And it is a way to- 'cause, you know, Sam and Dean at the end are like, "Well, that wasn't a win, was it? Not close enough." [C: Yeah.] And if it was as severe as what it looked like initially it would be, that would just not make sense. They wouldn't just be like, "Kind of sucky that that turned out like that, right?" They would be like, "No, we did a really bad thing."

C: Yeah, "We should have let her finish first."

G: Yeah. True. So what they say is that Rose is kind of pathetic and never had gone out on a date, and so they tricked her into thinking that somebody was interested in her and told her "Come to this place and meet me here!" And so she went, and there's a man sitting on a table, but she touched his shoulder, and he's a mannequin. And they all just come out and laugh and "Hahaha! So funny!" And Sam's like, "What the fuck is this?" And the guy goes, "You know how guys are when they're all together?" [both laugh] Wild.

C: Wild. Hope that's not true. It often is, though.

G: It really often is. Rose is just mad at them and goes, "Go to Hell." And she turns around to start walking away, and one of the guys is like, "Hey, it's just a joke. Come on!" But as he grabs her hand and she struggles away, she slips and falls over, and her head gets broken open by the edge of the table.

C: I wouldn't say broken open. It looks the injury was only to the skin.

G: That's kind of true.

C: It's a very small- I mean, it's not a very small forehead cut, but it's not one that looks it could kill you in any way whatsoever.

G: Yeah, it's not really explicitly fatal. They definitely could have saved her if they just called the fucking ambulance.

C: But is the- Yeah, I don't know. They sort of gloss over it. It seemed they were portraying her as being dead upon impact, which I don't think is true just based off of the makeup.

G: Yeah, but they should have checked her pulse or something.

C: Yeah, they don't do anything regarding the pulse checking or saying that "She was close to not dying, but then we killed her the rest of the way and buried her to cover it up." It seems like they were portraying her as dead upon impact.

G: Just like that kid.

C: Oh. Which one?

G: I forgot the title. There's a kid who pushes-

C: Omori?

G: Yes, that one! Just like Omori.

C: I think that's a spoiler. I'm not sure, actually. It might not be.

C: I mean, it was told to me as "You're never gonna play this game, so it's fine to tell you." So sorry to everyone who's getting spoiled.

C: We could just cut it out.

G: No, it's inside. It's inside.

C: I don't think "Rose may have been killed like in Omori" is that important.

G: But it's important to me!

C: Just like my half-brother joke about The Kite Runner and the label "family" wasn't that important, but now everyone's spoiled on The Kite Runner.

G: We also spoiled Succession, but everyone knew about that. If you're listening-

C: What did we spoil about Succession? Nothing ever happens on Succession.

G: Logan died. We made a joke about Logan dying the week Logan died.

C: Okay. Well, everyone knew that guy was going.

G: If you are listening to our podcast, you know what happens in Succession. [both laugh]

C: Yeah. Even if you don't watch it.

G: Literally. Just like Severance, I think.

C: I haven't said anything about- Okay. PSA. 2.04. Everyone says that it was written well. It wasn't. Not all bottle episodes are good just because they're bottle episodes and they're weird. Get over yourself, Ben Stiller and Dan Erickson. Anyway, yeah?

G: Hell yeah. I was baiting you to say something about it. And now you did!

C: Yeah. Also, this is coming out after 2.05 is out, so if 2.05 is good, I'm sorry, and I don't hate Severance. But currently, I do.

G: When does it come out, everyone?

C: Thursday, 9PM, Eastern time.

G: Oh, so my Friday morning, I think.

C: Yeah, no, I mean, I'm not gonna see it immediately because it's on Apple TV, which is a paid [laughs] service.

G: I have Apple TV. I can watch it [C: Wait, can I have your-] and I can Facetime you to show you the screen.

C: I don't think I'll watch it until Friday, though. Also, blank is probably never going back based off of an interview I watched last night. I misinterpreted a line as meaning something, but I think it means something else. Whatever. Who give a fuck?

G: Who is it?

C: I said "blank."

G: Oh, blank!

C: Who give a single fuck. Not me.

G: He's dead for good. Spoilers!

C: No, that's a spoiler. Don't say that.

G: I think he's blank for blank. [laughs]

C: I think "he" is the the part that-

G: Blank is blank for blank. [C laughs]

C: Ugh. Whatever. Anyway, add me @ihateseverance on Peach. [G laughs] You can probably tell who I am because my profile picture is a white square with the words "I hate Severance" in caps on it, and my name written on Peach is "Crystal hates Severance." So yeah, hit me up.

G: So important. Supernatural didn't even get that privilege. Crystal just watched SPN. Crystal didn't hate it.

C: Yeah, I don't care enough about Supernatural to hate it.

C: Yeah. And that's the vital part about it, etc.

C: It can't betray me because I never trusted it. Okay. And everyone who thinks that I don't the episode just because blank is blank for blank, it's not that. It's that the Season 2 pacing has been bad, and Episode 4 was their chance to turn it around, and they dropped the ball. Anyway.

G: Yeah. Love a ball dropping. [C laughs]

C: The weight and heft?

G: [laughs] The weight and heft- He doesn't say "the weight and heft."

C: What does he say? The heft and-

G: The heft and the- Maybe he does say "the weight and the heft."

C: I don't know. This is called [typing] "peace of mind supernatural transcript."

G: It's "the heft and the shape"? "The shape and the heft"?

C: That sounds right. But let's see what the transcript says. Yep, it's "the shape and the heft." [G: Love it.] I'm sorry for misquoting you, Castiel. [G: Well.] Love a ball dropping.

G: So she's now on the ground. Somebody tries to call the cops. The other guy's like, "We can't do that. We need to bury her!" And so- They definitely killed this woman. [C laughs] There's some handwashing that happens as Sam talks to Johnny where he's like, "I didn't kill her."

C: Okay, Steve says that he shouldn't call the police because it would count as involuntary manslaughter. If she was just on her way to dying- And also, wouldn't they be calling the ambulance and not the police if she was still alive? I think she is supposed to be dead already. He would call it assault that he was worried about being arrested for, not involuntary manslaughter. So I don't think they directly killed her after she fell.

G: Really?

C: Yeah.

G: And I think there is some acknowledgement that it looks really bad because they go, "The cops are not gonna believe us, even, that this is what we did," so. Sam is like, "Wow, I can't believe that you won't even admit that you're part of it. Look me in the eye and tell me none of it's on you." And then he just goes, "Look, I'm not saying you deserve to die-" [both laughing] but maybe he does. I don't know. Anyway.

C: I wouldn't say that.

G: Sam argues that "Just stay in the circle. I'm gonna go burn the body. Just stay there."

C: Johnny goes, "You just want me to stand here all night?!" even though he was previously sitting, and there's multiple tables and chairs in the room.

G: And there's literally a fucking floor.

C: Sam should have said, "No, I want you to sit there all night." But no, he just goes.

-

C: Back at Lisa's, Dean goes over to talk to Ben, who's playing Plants vs. Zombies on his phone. Throwback. Ben says that he called Dean because it was an emergency because this was Lisa's third date with the doctor, "And he knows what that means!" Dean has a moment of like, "Eugh!" [G laughs] But yeah, he tells Ben, "You know, your mom's an adult. She gets to live her own life." And Ben asks, "Why won't you come home? Can't you just say 'I'm sorry' and then come back?" And Dean says that he can't and won't. Ben starts wondering if he did something wrong to make Dean leave, and Dean's like, "Nonononono, that's not true," except he doesn't say it in that way. He says it in the [laughing] gruffest, machoist, glaring voice ever, which I guess is him trying to drive home a point. But I think I don't know if that actually works with what you're trying to go for with Ben emotionally. But yeah, he says, "You didn't do anything, and you know, you'll understand this when you're older." But Ben tells him to not talk down to him. So Dean just says, "Well, just because you love someone doesn't mean you should stick around and screw up their life." And the worry isn't that a monster will follow him home, but that his job turns him into somebody that can't sit at their dinner table, and if he stayed, Ben would end up just him.

G: Boo.

C: Quit your job or something.

G: What?

C: I said "Quit your job or something."

G: I just hate that like, "Ben, you're gonna become a hunter like me if you ever touch a gun!" a very common thing that people do in the United States.

C: It's true. They're often doing that in the United States.

C: I just don't- We had that one moment when Ben was like, "I want to be a hunter you." And Dean's like, "No." I don't think it's a given that Ben will end up just him. Also, I don't know. "My job turns me into somebody who can't sit at your dinner table." I feel that would work if we still-

G: Like a vampire? [C laughs]

C: Literally, like a vampire? So true on that one. We saw Dean calling Ben while he was going off on hunts with Sam, and he was fine? It just doesn't really ring particularly true to me. The only time he came back while he was out hunting was when he was a vampire, and yeah, [laughs] that does turn him into somebody who can't sit at their dinner table, but I'm not seeing any other proof- He had this conversation with Lisa in the kitchen, and he was a bit of a dick about it, but I also don't think that's because of hunting. Nothing he's done here has really proven that being a hunter makes him incapable of being a good dad or boyfriend. Lisa's thing about just constantly being afraid that he'll die when he's out on a hunt, that makes sense. But his "I can't act right anymore, because sometimes I kill monsters!" I don't think so.

G: Yeah. And there is a way about how this is presented to us as if it's the painful truth, which is like.

C: And Ben's like, "I don't think being like you is that bad." And Dean's like, "You don't get a choice in this matter. I'm gonna go, and then you can live whatever life you want." And Ben goes, "You're a liar, Dean!"

G: Love it.

C: The precocious child character. Love to see it. Hate to see it. And Ben's like, "You care about family about so much, but we're your family because we care for you and love you! And you're leaving!" Yeah.

G: And Dean literally fucking leaves.

C: And then we cut to the next scene where Dean literally does leave. [both laugh]

G: And he is, say it after me, going through an AMV as he's leaving.

C: Yeah. [laughs]

G: It is incredible and so fucking funny.

C: Does that happen after this? Right after this?

G: I think pretty much, yeah.

C: 'Cause the transcript doesn't say when the AMV happens. Okay, so Dean's driving, and there's some song playing, I don't know what it is. It's some sad song. Not the sad piano. A different sad song. And it's literally just replays of scenes that have been shown on Supernatural, the TV show.

G: Yeah.

C: It's not even from different angles or anything.

C: No, but I love it because they were like, "Let's put the scenes that have the same situation going on together."

C: Yeah, door opens, door opens, door opens, etc. And it goes back to Dean driving, looking sad. And this goes on forever.

G: You know how Ben was like, "You know, we're family, because we love you, and you're walking away from your family!" We know that's not true because they don't play the family theme. [both laugh]

C: Funniest scene in the entire world.

-

C: Meanwhile, Sam, who's been told by Johnny where Rose's body is, goes and burns it, and then he calls Johnny, and he's like, "You're safe now. Don't be a dumbass or a jackass anytime in your future." So Johnny's in his apartment, and he's gonna pack and leave town.

G: The apartment is above a bar.

C: Yes, yes, what we see is Isabel enter a pub, and then, briefly after that, Johnny go up to his apartment, which is right over it. He's gonna pack up, he's gonna leave town, and he's telling somebody, "Honey, we're leaving tonight. We need to move on with our lives. I love you." And the camera pans over, and he's talking to a sex doll.

G: Yeah. Oh, that's a sex doll! [C: Yeah.] I don't know. I thought it was just some doll. It doesn't have to be sexual in nature.

C: Dean says "sex doll" later.

G: Yeah, but I thought he was just being weird!

C: No. He was admitting that he fucked his car.

G: What if it's the love of his life doll, Crystal? [C laughs]

C: Those two aren't completely inseparable. Just like Baby is the love of Dean's life, and he also fucks that car!

G: That is very true. I feel this was like a "What are we even doing here?" And I understand that the point is that- Oh, by the way, this sex doll-

C: Kills this guy.

G: Turns its head and then kills this guy. But I feel it was just shock value. "Oh, this guy has a sex doll!"

C: Yeah, I think it's both a "Oh, look! There's something in his apartment that the ghost could possess" and then there's "This guy's a loser!"

G: Yeah. I didn't know that they made sex sauce that were full-

C: Oh. Well, that's 'cause you haven't watched Elementary.

G: Wow!

C: Wait. Also House M.D.!

G: Is there really?

C: House M.D. Yeah, there's the guy whose ex was a yoga instructor, and something about the bidet or something he was using was giving him problems. And he had this neighbor who was really nice and really liked him, but he had this sex doll that was built like his ex, and he was, and you're supposed to sort of feel sympathy for him for his loneliness and all that, but then his neighbor asks him out, and he's not interested, and then he asks- Who's the the rich doctor who House meets in the prison hospital who's in the last season? Adams or something? [G: Yeah.] But yeah. But then the guy tries to ask her out, even though they don't have a connection at all. And then it's like, "Oh, he's been shallow all along, and we shouldn't have felt bad for him and his loneliness with his sex doll girlfriend." And that's the episode. You remember this!

G: No, absolutely not.

C: No? Okay.

G: Absolutely not. Yeah, my friend Arya-

C: Hasn't gotten there yet.

G: No, she's in the cancer arc.

C: Oh! She's getting there, then.

G: And I'm like, "How are you doing?" [laughs] as if she has the cancer, which is so important. Also, in terms of your Elementary, I have been thinking, why shouldn't we do an Elementary podcast?

C: It's pretty copagandish, I think.

G: Oh, yeah. Well, we have a Supernatural podcast.

C: We have- Okay, but they're not directly cops.

G: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is different.

C: Yeah, also, Elementary has a lot of episodes. But I think they do have a pretty robust transcript collection, which is helpful.

G: I thought we were gonna do it after.

C: Oh, no, yeah, that's true.

G: If we do Doctor Who, we'll be doing that truly forever.

C: Well, I thought we were only gonna do the doctors that we like [laughs] or the companions that we like.

G: Who are even?

C: It just means that we're skipping Eleven. That's it.

G: Why do we not like Eleven.

C: [laughing] I just find him annoying, personally.

G: Eleven is after David Tennant, so it's Matt-

C: Smith, correct. It's just Moffat's era of Moffating out the most, I think.

G: People also say that Twelve doesn't have a good situation.

C: [laughing] People can say whatever they believe.

G: Yeah, people will say they're not in love, even.

C: Yeah. I mean, okay, there are issues with Twelve's arc. But I don't know. I really think that his seasons are quite tight. I think Bill's season is a little more messily written, but it's fine, because she's so charming and charismatic.

-

G: So Sam goes to Isabel's place to see what other stuff Rose might have, and Isabel basically hands him a box and says that "I sold her clothes to Goodwill. She didn't have many things." Sam figures out in a way that I can't really comprehend that she is in university.

C: He sees a stack of chem textbooks in her apartment.

G: Ah. He figures out that she was in the lab where the janitor died, and she was in the factory. Does she work in the factory?

C: Yeah. She works on the factory.

G: Okay. So she's in the factory, and she was at a bar last night, and Sam realized, "It's all you! It's all you! Something is attached to you! What are you wearing of hers? What do you have of her?" Isabel just goes, "The only thing I have of her is... a part of me! When I was 16, she gave me one of her kidneys." And I was cheering. I was clapping. I was going, "Woohoo!"

C: That is fun.

G: It's very fun. I do hate that the solution is to just kill this woman.

C: Just kill her. I mean-

G: There's gotta be another way.

C: I mean, that wasn't the solution they were going for. It just happened so they could wrap the episode up cleanly while going, "Wow! What a bummer!"

G: Yeah, I think I would try getting a blessing from a priest.

C: Uh-huh.

G: Haven't they ever tried something else? I think it's always salt and burn, right?

C: Well, this one, they said that they were gonna do a temporary hoodoo thing?

G: Yeah. But they did explicitly say that "It's not gonna last her long." But you know, maybe it will. I don't remember if we ever explore this again in future episodes.

C: I think they could have just asked her to move, right?

G: That is also what I was thinking. "Never associate with these people ever again, never go here again."

C: Yeah. But I guess if she learns what happened to her sister, if he gives her the full details, she might be like, "No, I'm staying until she gets all of them."

G: Literally. And that is also something that I found- When Sam was burning the body, all I can think of is, "She still has a sister who's looking for her."

C: Yeah, I mean, Sam came by as a fed presumably as a "We're reopening the case." She probably had some kind of hope regarding answers, and even if they had solved it the way they normally do, I don't think they would have told her. She would have just been left disquieted, having been roused from despair and then put back to sleep. [G: Yeah.] Which sort of just happens often in Supernatural episodes. Sorry to all the loved ones of the dead people.

Sam tells Isabel, "I'll tell you what this is about as long as you come with me!" And then he drives her over to some fucking gas station or whatever where Dean pulls up in his Impala, and then the two of them are just standing outside, discussing things. I know she thinks that they're feds, but wow! No survival instinct. [G laughs] Sorry to Isabel that this happened.

G: No, yeah.

C: So yeah. Sam and Dean are talking about what they can possibly do. They can't take out the kidney and burn it because she needs it, but they also can't take it out of her. Dean thinks maybe Dr. Roberts could get her a replacement kidney.

G: I love the bit here where they talk about Dr. Robert. Because Sam was like, "It's so dirty because it's above a butcher!" And Dean was like, "No, actually, it's very clean." [C laughs] And I was like, "Wow. He came around." [C laughs]

C: Yeah, he sure did.

G: Love is love!

C: Sure. Yep. Stopped his heart in more ways than one. Sam says that they should try hoodoo, but Dean says that's more of a Band-aid, not really a cure. And we don't really know what it is that they're planning, because Isabel has at this point come out of the car and been like, "What are you talking about? You are not feds." And just as they have to explain themselves, the Impala turns on.

G: Starts revving. 'Cause it is a representation of a person, is what it is.

C: Of what? Dean's girlfriend?

G: Yeah!

C: So yeah. And Dean starts going, "No, no, no, no, no. She possesses sex dolls. This is not a sex doll!" Keep saying it, Dean. Maybe I'll believe you in a few years. And then the Impala starts driving at them, trying to run them over. Sam tries to get Isabel away, and then Dean tricks the Impala into running into a wall.

G: And he goes, "Sorry, Baby," or something before it hits the wall.

C: So it shatters a bunch of glass, and Dean turns around, and one of the shards of glass, [G screams] but only one, has just perfectly stabbed Isabel, somehow, directly in the kidney, but from the front, not the back.

G: Yeah. Yeah. She dies. RIP.

C: Well, Rose's ghost shows up. [G: Yeah.] And she goes, "Sorry! I didn't mean for this!"

G: "My bad!"

C: And then she burns up because she ghost-killed herself.

G: No, because the kidney has been killed!

C: But it hasn't been salted and burned.

G: Yeah, the concept of a salt and burn is nebulous in Supernatural, as we have previously discussed.

C: Okay, so it's because the kidney was punctured?

G: Yeah, it was destroyed.

C: Alright. Why not?

G: I don't know. Maybe she just ghost-suicided.

C: So yeah, she burns up, and Isabel's dead. RIP!

G: RI fucking P. I do feel bad for them, and you're supposed to. So yeah, sorry to these two people whose life got fucking destroyed.

-

G: Sam and Dean are now at the fucking scrapyard, and Dean's fixing the car, and Dean is like, "What the hell was that?" And Sam says, "Yeah, I don't know. I'm not putting it in the win column, either." And Dean says, "We saved a few dicks, and we killed an innocent girl. I got a heartbroken kid and a woman who's so pissed at me. [C laughs] I see what you mean about facing your past. It's awesome. Thanks." How is that facing your past? The first one?

C: Yeah, the first one doesn't seem very related to facing your past. [G: Yeah.] Does he really think that the Lisa situation is a bigger deal than how he caused that woman's death?

G: And it just pissed me off that-

C: "A woman who's so pissed at me" is not how I would describe Lisa!

G: Also, I just hate that it's like, "Sam, you may have killed many innocent people. You may have been really reckless with your hunting in a way that put people at risk and, you know, blah blah blah. And you may have fucking terrorized entire communities. But Lisa's so mad at me!!! [C laughing] And we're so equal in this way!" It pisses me off. And I know Sam is the one who started it, but it's just annoying to hear. Sam has an entire year and a half or something of his life that he does not remember, and he is on the verge of dying every single day. [both laughing] I feel like these are not the same.

C: Yeah. I agree.

G: Yeah, but Sam is like, "You know what? We still save lives every now and then."

C: I don't understand why Sam's taking the position he takes for the rest of this conversation.

G: Yeah, who even knows what anyone does in this thing. And Sam says, "Bad luck is in the job description, and it's not all bad, really. Look at me. I mean, at least Satan's left the building. And I have a soul because of you. I never thanked you for that, did I?" Corny! [C: Mm.] And Dean thought so, too. [both laugh] And Dean says, "You would have done the same for me." And Sam just says, "Let's just keep our head down."

C: "Whatever we face, we're gonna face it on our own terms, and no matter what, we're gonna do it... together." [both laugh]

G: "And no matter what, we have each other's back. And no matter what we'll get through it."

C: "We're brothers! And no matter what, we're family."

G: I mean, I am a little bit glad that they're back to Season 5 shenanigans.

C: Stupid as fuck. What I don't get is that at the end of Season 5, Sam's like, "I'm gonna die now, and your promise to me is that you're gonna go back to Lisa and Ben, and you're gonna live a normal civilian life and not hunt anymore." And now, in this situation, he's like, "Dean, no, it's okay. Hunting's amazing!" What are we doing?

G: I think he's just trying to comfort Dean because that's never gonna work out, so he's like, "Whatever."

C: He just thinks that he can't get Lisa and Ben back anymore?

G: Yeah. And he's like, "I can't just keep harping on this. I think he's gonna get even more depressed!" So now we're here.

C: Maybe so.

G: Well. What do we think about this episode?

C: It wasn't very good.

G: I loved it! [both laugh] But I can also- You have to remember I'm also saying things recreationally, so we never know.

C: Yeah. And you love a case.

G: I honestly-

C: Not this one?

G: Because I love case episodes, as I constantly say every single episode. This one, I think because they're separated for a majority of it, I have less enjoyment. Because for me, the point of the case episode is to see the dynamics of the people in it, and you know, one of my favorite episodes of all time is "Ouroboros," And the reason why is because it's so many people, and they're all just doing a case, and it's so fun to see the dynamics of Cas and Dean and Sam and Rowena and Jack trying to do a case. And here, because most of the time, Sam is alone doing the case, it's like whatever.

C: I see.

G: Yeah, that's my situation. And you know what? I did find hilarious the scenes where Dean is running away from the car. [C laughs] [C: Fair.] It was more effective to me comedically than whatever it was they were doing a couple of episodes ago.

C: With the sword in the stone?

G: Yeah.

C: Yeah. I just feel if they were gonna do a "Dean can't quit the hunting life to be with Lisa and Ben, and Sam encourages him to stay!" we should have gotten a little more Purgatory or alpha stuff this episode because that's the reason that they have to stay in the game because the world is at risk. But we just haven't had that for two episodes, so it just feels off.

G: Oh, yeah. I completely forgot about it, even. [C laughs]

-

G: Well, Best Line/Worst Line? My best line is "I don't think plants can kill zombies." [both laugh] I just love Plants vs. Zombies, and I'm so fascinated that it was a phone game, and it is still, I think. [C: Yeah.] Because I didn't have a smartphone growing up, so Plants vs. Zombies is evidently a laptop [C: Browser.] game.

C: Yeah, well, that's fun. I guess my best line is, you know, the end of the- when Dean goes, "If you want to know if I care," and Lisa says, "Doesn't help me," and he says, "What do you want from me?" "I'm not asking for anything." "Well, then, ask for something!" Yeah, I liked it.

G: I do like the idea that just because Dean thought about it, that doesn't count. Thinking about it doesn't count. Love that.

C: Worst line.

G: Worst line. I don't like that the whole reason why they were picking on Rose was because she was awkward or something. I don't know. Do people actually do that?

C: Yeah. [laughs]

G: Why? People are so mean.

C: Yeah. I guess my worst line is the- 'cause we just didn't really get it. His whole "My job turns me into someone who can't sit at your dinner table!" or whatever the fuck.

G: Yeah, I would say, maybe my worst line is just Ben going, "We're famiwy!" Don't like it. [both laugh]

C: Alright. Spreadsheets.

G: Spreadsheets!

C: Okay, the thing about the misogyny is that I think there is an argument for 0, which feels weird. How do you feel?

G: I think there is an argument for 0.

C: Okay. Should we go for it?

G: Yeah.

C: Alright, racism. They mention hoodoo briefly, but I feel they don't go far enough into it for me to know if they were talking about it in an insensitive way.

G: Yeah. They kill an Asian guy. [both laugh] I don't think that counts.

C: 0. Homophobia, also 0?

G: Yeah.

C: Whoa. First 0 of the season!

G: Oh my god, that's so wonderful! We're at Episode 14!

C: Mm-hm.

G: Which means I'm gonna have to guess first. I'm assuming this has a low score for reasons that I may not- No. I would say this is a 7.9.

C: Okay, I was thinking lower at a 7.5? I'm just gonna make big swings. That's just gonna be my life.

G: Let's see... [gasps]

C: What?

G: It's 7.4.

C: Yeah! Yeah! Yay!

G: What are we looking right now?

C: I think I'm winning now!

G: You're winning.

C: I'm winning now!

G: This is horrible!

C: Yay! Yay! Yay yay yay! Okay.

G: Hate everything.

C: Love everything!

G: This one says that Dean actually shows a level of maturity with Ben. True, I guess.

C: True, I guess.

C: Yeah, alright. First one says that they- [laughs] "Plus, no ghost in its right mind would mess with the Impala. Why does she always have to suffer?"

G: Wait. This is Season 6, Episode 14, by the way. This is six years into the show. This one, this review says, "After a slow start, Supernatural is starting to hit its stride"?

C: [laughs] No. About this episode?

G: "Using the old horror/revenge storyline, the viewer has an old school Supernatural episode." Maybe they're talking about Season 6. [C: Maybe.] "Attacking mannequins is creepy and funny. I like the idea of using old horror movie plots."

C: I think they are just talking about this episode.

G: This calls the Dean and Lisa subplot "soap opera style." "I cannot see Dean with a family, and I hope they drop this subplot."

C: "I think the show is trying to add a love interest." [both laugh] Trying? To add? You're right. Up until this point, Lisa and Dean weren't romantically involved at all.

C: "The subplot will probably be a theme for the entire season." It's been a theme for the entire season. We're over halfway through! Yeah, okay, this person calls it "one of the very worst episodes" but they say that one of the best lines in Supernatural is the Plants vs. Zombies one.

G: They're on my side! They're on my side! Wow! This one says, "This is the worst episode of the entire show." Strong words. Okay, well, that's it for this episode of Busty Asian Beauties. Next week, we will be discussing Season 6, Episode 15, would you like to take a guess?

C: Is that "The French Mistake"?

G: Yeah!

C: Okay, I'm sorry, they dropped the purgatory plot on on 6.12-

G: It's part of "The French Mistake."

C: - and then they don't mention it for at least three episodes?

G: [laughing] It's part of "The French Mistake."

C: What is the- I mean, I know it's part of it in that "Oh, we have to hide you away because some shit's happening," but they're not involved in any of it.

G: [laughing] Yeah, this is a- Oh my god! Are you excited? [laughs]

C: Not really. I'm mostly just shocked at the horrible pacing. Maybe Severance Season 2 is fine!

G: No, yeah. [laughing] This season is so fucked up. Well.

C: They come back from hiatus, and the first episode they're like, "Oh my god! Purgatory! Oh my god! Eve!" And then they do three episodes in a row that are completely unrelated, two of which are comedy, basically?

G: Yes. Well. Love is love.

C: Do we get back to it after that? What's after that?

G: "And Then They Were None," I think, is after this.

C: Is that related? Is that the one where Rufus dies?

G: Mm.

C: Well, that sucks.

G: I'm not gonna answer your questions.

C: Okay, yeah, that's where the Campbells come back-

G: Jesus Christ. Sorry.

C: - And there's this big hunt, and then they all die.

G: The next episode, Rufus, right? And then after that, it's the fucking Titanic episode!

C: What is Season 6, even?

G: [laughs] What are they doing?

C: What are they trying to do or say?

G: Yeah, I don't know.

C: I just feel like we were pretty solidly on the alphas plot the first half.

G: I feel like when we get to "The Man Who Would Be King," we would be like, "Where the fuck did this come from?"

C: Well, okay, we have "Mommy Dearest" or whatever, right, coming up in at 6.18?

G: Yeah, it's the one with the beheading and the blood-

C: Yeah, Cas being come on. So okay, so after that, we have "Mommy Dearest."

G: God, we're gonna get queerbait! Good, old-fashioned queerbait.

C: And then we have 6.19, which is the one where demons kidnap Lisa and Ben. And then we have "Man Who Would Be King," and then we have Godstiel arc. Why didn't they throw any of these funny ones in the first half? I guess they were like, "It won't work with soulless Sam"?

G: I don't know. I don't know.

C: Well, stupid. Anyway.

G: Leave us a rating or review wherever you get your podcasts.

C: Also, I didn't mean that. Severance Season 2 is still bad. Anyway, follow us on social media! We are on Tumblr at bustyasianbeautiespod.tumblr.com. Our official tag is #BABPod, B-A-B-POD. Thanks to everyone who's donated to our Ko-Fi at ko-fi.com/bustyasianbeautiespod, which is where our outtakes live, and check out our merch at babpod.redbubble.com.

G: You can email us any feedback, comments, or inquiries at bustyasianbeautiespod@gmail.com. See you guys next time! [both] Bye!

[guitar music]

-

C: [quietly] Also, Ben Stiller, why do you have to reply to everybody criticizing your show on Bluesky with a snarky little comment? Are you that insecure? Is it a marketing ploy? I just- you can just log off. You just keep saying in interviews that the difference between doing Season 1 and Season 2 is that in Season 2, you knew that a lot of people were watching and waiting for it to be good, and that's why the creators even brought back the goats because they didn't have any plans for them, and then everyone wanted to know, "Oh, what's up with the goats?" So then you brought them back, and you had to hire Gwendolyn Christie to do the Mammalians Nurturable, and for what? I didn't want to know about the goats, and if you didn't have a plan for the goats, you don't have to bring back the goats. It just seems like you're making so many decisions based off of having an audience now and wanting people to write thinkpieces or like, "Severance Season 2, Episode 3, Explained!" or whatever. AndI just think that makes your show worse. Get over yourself. By you, I'm also including Dan Erickson. I know both of you are heavily involved. You're just the one who talks more in the podcast, which is bad. No t that it's bad that you talk more on the podcast. The podcast is the thing that is bad. And Dylan and Irving didn't even fuck nasty once. Not that that's a big part of the-

G: Hello.

C: Hi! How's it going?

[bustyasianbeautiespod]

Crystal complaining about Severence when they were only on episode 4 is so funny. I can't wait to hear episodes recorded later

unfortunately our break occurred right after that ep and we didn't record again until after cold harbor was released so my journey has no audio record... never let it be said that crystal babpod doesn't have the right hater instincts though!

- Crystal :)

[bustyasianbeautiespod]

Episode 118: Plants Vs. Zombies

Today, Crystal & Grey discuss Supernatural 6.14 - Mannequin 3: The Reckoning. We talk about: DeanLisa Dynamic Assasination, the potential for an Elementary Podcast, and Crystal's personal message to Ben Stiller

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Transcript

[bustyasianbeautiespod]

Hello BABPals! The podcast is having a bit of a break. We shall be back when we're back. Wishing you all a wonderful time!

- Grey <3

[bustyasianbeautiespod]

Episode 117 Transcript: Brystal CABPod

[intro guitar music]

G: Hello, it's Grey.

C: Hello, it's Crystal.

G: And this is Busty Asian Beauties, a Supernatural commentary podcast where I, someone who has seen this show several times...

C: And I, someone who only knows the show through social media, discuss every single episode of Supernatural from start to finish. Also, we are both Asian.

G: Both Asian! For today's episode, we will be discussing Season 6, Episode 13 with the corny, corny, corny title: "Unforgiven," [both laugh] written by Andrew Dabb and Daniel Loflin. Boo! [C: Boo.] or I don't know, it's fine. Directed by David Barrett-

C: Who is only a director on "Unforgiven" and has never done anything else.

G: Well, I'm sure he has done other things in his life, but yeah, on Supernatural.

C: That's true. Woke up, breathed. Let's find this individual. [typing] "David Barrett, IMDb." Oh, whole Wikipedia page for this individual.

G: That's pretty fun.

C: I don't really know. I don't recognize anything on here, though. Also, it might be a different David Barrett.

G: You know, sometimes, people just have a Wikipedia [C: That they made?], and it's not for anything, yeah. You don't have to be too impressed. He directed one episode of Supernatural in the Wikipedia, so this is him. I'm just sorry for saying that you shouldn't be impressed with this guy. [C laughs] He seems an accomplished director and other things, so good for him.

C: Yeah, yeah. He did three episodes of Once Upon a Time, which I know matters to the femslash community.

G: Love it. Love it. Watched that TV show around the same time I watched House M.D., I think, for the first time. [C: Mm.] And I knew immediately that they were lesbians. Like, yeah.

C: Good for them.

G: Well, anyway! [laughs] What do we think about this episode? [laughs] Let's just skip to the end.

C: So okay, I think the concept of it is pretty good.

G: Yeah. Parts of it are like- [laughs]

C: An old case that Sam did some fucked up shit as soulless Sam, and he learns over the course of the episode that there's no way to truly, cleanly make things right the way he wants to. Good concept. Actual execution, I guess this guy who was a spider [laughs] spent a whole year finding out who Sam slept with and what his phone number was?

G: Yeah. [both laughing] Hell yeah.

C: And so yeah. And also, the flashbacks are corny as fuck.

G: The flashbacks were so long, and corny and tired and played out. I feel they could have gone the more "For real, we're seeing it from Sam's perspective now" kind of flashback, you know? But we don't. We just fully get in on those. It's just a completely separate part of the episode, so. And it's black and white. [C: Yeah.] [laughs] I mean, it's better than if they did the coloring of Season 8 with Amelia, [C laughing] but still. I was like, "What are we doing here? What is this?" I mean, it's generally fine. But I think there's a reason, I think, why basically nobody talks about this episode. And it's essential to Sam's plot, and we do get the iconic visual of Sam in Hell in this episode, it seems like. But yeah, some episodes are just not bell ringers. Okay, well, what did know about it, though, before?

C: Nothing. I just put down that I assume it's about soulless Sam having been responsible for a death in an evil way, and then him having to make up for it in a case. So I got that right. But yeah, none of the details of this episode are things that I've heard about.

G: Really?

C: Yeah.

G: I don't know what you would have heard about if it wasn't- I also think I like quite a bit that it feels very- I was gonna say "very modern" to refer to modern-day Supernatural, [C laughs] and by modern-day, I mean late seasons. But that's not modern-day. That's five years ago! [C: Right.] Crazy. [laughs] That's crazy! Wait! [laughs] What's going on?

C: You good?

G: Well, anyway. Yeah, I mean, I started watching Supernatural when it was airing Season 10, and that was in 2015!

C: Ten years ago.

G: That's wild.

C: Yeah.

G: Well, anyway, we start the episode literally in- The "Then" sequences this season, I don't know. They leave much to be desired, I feel like. [C laughs] I just feel like. [C: Mm.] Last episode, we had that disappointing AMV that's literally whatever, [C laughs] and now, it's just whatever, also. It's just them saying, "We're gonna bring that damn soul back," etc. We are in a flashback sequence that we know to be a flashback sequence because it's black and white. Is it currently black and white?

C: No. No, it's not.

G: It's normal.

C: It says "one year ago" is how we know.

G: Okay. And Sam and Samuel- [both laugh] I have been thinking about what I said to you the other day, which is that we are so quick to judge Samuel. If you did get resurrected from the dead, and you have a grandchild named "Chris," you would kill him. [laughs]

C: I don't know if I would kill Chris.

G: You wouldn't kill Crys with a Y?

C: Noo. [laughs] No, no, I don't think so. I would kill my clone. I don't think I would kill some other guy.

G: Yeah, I mean, seeing how Sam acted with Samuel when they were hunting together, it does make me think, why didn't Samuel kill him? [both laugh] [C: No.] Kinda maybe he should have.

C: Yeah, no, it just seemed Sam was being, "And now we should use people as bait, and then now we should kill them without even checking with the hospital, but this is how we do it in the 2000s," and Samuel was like, "I guess!" [laughs]

G: Yeah. So maybe me saying that you would kill Crys is just me projecting on what Samuel should have done. Yeah, anyway, Sam and Samuel are running out of a fucking building, and for some reason, Sam has a giant wound on his arm. Do we figure out why he has this giant wound later?

C: Uhh... I think it's from when the Arachne jumped him?

G: He didn't have it when he shot that guy. He didn't have! [C: Hm, yeah.] Like, he raised his arm to shoot that guy with the arm that's bloody.

C: Fair point. Yeah, I don't know.

G: So now I have no idea where this fucking arm wound came from. But anyway, they go out, they're driving away. There's a cop car comes up, and there's a cop asking, "What's going on?" because they can't get Sheriff Dobbs on the phone. And so Samuel steps out, and then Sam steps out, and the cop is, "Oh my god! You have so much blood on you!" And he was like, "I'm gonna arrest you guys." But then Sam just well and truly knocks him the fuck out. Truly just beats the crap out of him. [C: Yeah.] And then he's conscious. And Samuel's like, "Maybe we shouldn't have done that!"

C: I thought he was straight up dead.

G: Well, as we find out, [C: He's not.] he is not straight up dead. He is gay up alive! [C laughs] So good for him.

C: Good for him. Gay down alive?

G: It's gay down alive. I'm so sorry.

C: It's okay. Yeah, he punches him the amount of times it takes to kill somebody in Supernatural through punches. [both laugh]

G: No, we need to keep a count of how many times you need to be hit on the head to be unconscious and then die.

C: Yeah, well, yeah, not this amount, I suppose.

G: Yeah, this is just unconscious territory.

C: Yeah. And Samuel's just like, "That was a little bit unchill of you, buddy!" [both laughing] and then they just go off.

G: [laughing] No, literally.

C: I mean, okay, what have we seen of Samuel's-

G: Morals?

C: His morals or his hunting style or whatever, right? Because we're saying, "Oh, he should have known. He should have held Sam to a higher standard," etc. Do we know that he wasn't also a shithead?

G: Well, we know that he partnered with Bobby in a way that really jeopardized the safety of his crew.

C: With Bobby?

G: Not Bobby. [both laugh] "With Bobby." I'm sorry for badmouthing Bobby.

C: I'm like, when was this old man yaoi? Yeah. Okay, yeah. But in terms of endangering other people who weren't hunters, have we seen it?

G: No, I think with Samuel, we pretty much only exclusively see him with getting to the alphas and stuff, so we don't know.

C: Yeah. And when he's going after Yellow Eyes in one of the time travel episode [G: Yeah.], wasn't one of Mary's friends killed in that kerfuffle? How did that happen?

G: I don't think she was killed. I think they went to her house to check on her. [C: Okay.] And then she was killed, yeah. [both laugh]

C: And then she was killed.

G: She was killed by a possessed Samuel, if I remember correctly. He didn't have time to react to that because he died immediately, if you remember.

C: Uh-huh, yeah. [G laughs] Wait wait wait, did he die immediately after that, or was that the one where Yellow Eyes decided he had his eye on Mary but he didn't kill her?

G: Yeah. And then they kissed, and then he died.

C: No, no, no, I'm saying there are two different flashback episodes. [G: Oh, yeah. That's true.] Both of them involve Azazel. I feel like the Mary's friend dying was in the first one, not the second one? Or the second one, not the first? No.

G: I think it's the second one.

C: No, but you're right. In the first one, she already does the deal 'cause that's only Dean who sees it. So yeah, no.

G: Oh, yeah. In the second one, the parents are dead. [C: Yes.] Hell yeah.

C: Hell yeah. Well, this has been Grey and Crystal trying to remember what happened in Supernatural. [G laughs] Well, I have no insights on Samuel's hunting style from that.

G: I mean, we have said this before, but there's literally no character to Samuel. His only character, is that he loves Mary. [C laughs] The only insight we get from him this episode was literally a third character going, "Wow! He loved her." [both laugh] about Mary, and it's so stupid! It's crazy.

-

C: Sam and Dean are in a motel room. Sam's watching a news story about Mel Gibson's domestic violence case, and Dean says, "I think it's just because he was possessed by a demon!" [G laughs] Don't do that.

G: No, yeah, that is- It's kind of a wild thing to do, the way Supernatural would go, "Yeah, this guy was possessed by a demon. Yeah, the demons did 9/11." [both laugh]

C: There's no need to be topical in this particular way, Supernatural. [G: Yeah.] And they got nothing from Bobby about Eve, which is the only time during this episode that they pay tribute to the big old plot thing that happened last week. [G: Literally.] And then Sam gets a mysterious text message that's just a set of coordinates, and he doesn't know who it's from.

G: The last time they got this shit was from John!

C: Was "Something Wicked." And they are trying to draw parallels, I think. And then they give up.

G: Yes, very heavily. Let's get into it later.

C: Those are coordinates to Bristol, Rhode Island, which is where the initial opening scene happened. Three women have disappeared.

G: Are places in the US just same named from places in the UK because they were a colony?

C: A lot of them, yeah, I think.

G: Okay, got it. I was like, "It's in Bristol? They're flying?" [both laugh] So true. But there's a Briston in Rhode Island.

C: It's in Brystal CABPod.

G: What? What's the joke there?

C: It's like "Crystal BABPod" but you switch the letters. It's not funny. Who cares? [both laugh]

G: No, wait! Can you explain why this would be funny if it was? [C laughing] I'm sorry. Was that a really offensive thing to say?

C: [laughing] It wasn't, but it's incredibly funny.

G: Well, how would it be funny if-

C: It's just that "Bristol" sounds like "Crystal," so-

G: Oh, okay!

C: So, yeah, instead of Crystal BABPod, it's Brystal CABPod.

G: No, but Crystal only sounds that if you say it in a specific way.

C: Crystal and Bristol sound pretty similar!

G: No, but Bristol has an O, and Crystal has an A and it's OH/UH. That's different.

C: Bristol, Crystal. It's the same sound! [G laughs] It's an "uhl."

G: Well, you know, love is love, [C laughs] so we can move on from this.

C: And people are people.

So yeah, so Sam assumes that this is another hunter who he may have met while he was soulless dropping him a case so they should go, despite Dean's protestations. Because, yeah, Dean goes, "We're just gonna drop everything?" And Sam says, "Dude. Two minutes ago, you weren't doing anything." [both laugh] King shit. Yeah, and Sam's saying that they have to go, because even if this is mysterious or a trap or whatever, they shouldn't ignore three missing girls. And they go under the agreement that if things start getting weird, they leave. While they're driving in there's a welcome sign, and Sam at this point starts getting his silly black and white flashbacks of the last time he was here. But he does not tell Dean about it so that they don't have to leave.

G: There are two sets of flashbacks, basically. There's the ones like this that are sprinkled across the episode, and then the longer ones that are basically the entire scene that happened in the past. And I do wonder, when Sam is having a longass flashback, is he having the whole thing? [laughs]

C: I think so. That's why- [G: Okay.] Because one of the times he got it when Brenna went up- She was like, "I'm gonna go get the file now."

G: Yeah, and he's looking at the couch.

C: Yeah. And then he has the whole flashback, and then she's gone. When he comes to, she's back from going upstairs to getting the files.

G: Yeah, but the the really, really long one, when they were actually hunting the monster already. What's that about?

C: Oh, okay, probably not. Dean would have said something.

G: Yeah, he's just staring in the void. To be fair, it was a two minute flashback [C: Mm.] so, you know. We have this really weird remark that Dean does where he's looking through- They're at a caf- I was gonna say, "They're at a cafe," but I think Dean Winchester will erupt from my screen and kill me if I said that. But they're at a-

C: Yeah, cafes are gay. That's why the words rhyme.

G: Yeah, they're at a diner.

G: They barely- We cannot get into the difference [C laughs] between how you and I pronounce things in this episode.

C: Say "cafe," and say "gay."

G: Cafe. Gay. Oh my god!

C: It does!

G: It does! It sounds more rhyming when I say it, though, when you do.

C: [laughs] Okay, slay.

G: And he makes this weird remark, where he's holding the missing poster signs, and he's like, "Wow, look at this lady. She's got that wild side look in her eyes!" [laughs] which is so weird, especially given the fact that the reveal this episode is that Sam fucked all these women.

C: Sam Winchester's killer dick strikes again.

G: How many dicks has Sam killed? [C laughs] No, how many women has Sam's dick killed? We have-

C: Okay, Jess. [G: Yes.] Madison. [G: Hell yeah.] Sarah, eventually.

G: Is eventually gonna get there, yeah.

C: Ruby. [G: Hell yeah.] Okay, Cara's fine, at least, so that's something. She escaped. And then all three of these women. Anyone else?

G: Damn. Not looking good for Sam.

C: Also, Dean's like, "Wow. This monster has a type. It's brunettes." But it turns out that it is simply Sam who has a type that's brunettes. [laughing] Do you think it's because Jess made him so sad that he can't fuck blondes anymore?

G: [laughing] Did Sam ever fuck a blonde again? An important question. And I think we can say no.

C: I don't think so. Yeah, he doesn't. That's why he only had sex with Ruby 2.0! [both laugh]

G: No, literally! He was like, "You're a demon? That's completely fine. You're blonde? Ew! Ew!" That's what he said.

C: Yeah. Dean's fucked blonde- Jamie, in "Monster Movie." So we know that he has no such qualms.

G: Yeah. Eventually, Dean goes out to take a dump or something, and this couple walks in, and the lady knows Sam Winchester. And she is very enthusiastic to see him. She's like, "Oh my god! You're back! And you remember my husband, right?" Which is like, [both laugh] we realize that the reason she's saying that is to be like, "Don't flirt with me too openly. That's what to do." I love this. I think Sam should exclusively have sex with married women. [both laugh] And that's important.

C: But what about Eileen? I guess she can get married first.

G: Yeah, she can- Yeah, she can get divorced. I think Sam should only have sex with divorced women. [C: Mm.] The woman is saying, "Oh, you're back because the disappearances are starting again. Anyway, where's your partner? The big bald guy?" [both laugh] And yeah, by the way, while this is all happening, Dean went to the bathroom, right? And he saw- he was looking at this array of pictures that is people who have finished a certain meal or something. [C: Yeah.] And in one- He's looking, he's looking, he's looking. And then he pauses at a picture, and he makes a face, and we don't see the picture, [both laughing] and I-

C: I was like, "I can't believe Sam ate all of those burgers!"

G: [laughing] I fully thought when he was gonna show the picture-

C: [laughing] It'd be Sam in the pirate hat. Love it.

G: [laughing] - Sam in the pirate hat. I'm so sad that it wasn't that. So sad. Devastated! Anyway, the woman is still making conversation, and she eventually goes, "Well, if you need anything." And then she puts her hand on Sam's shoulder. And Dean has come in at this point and is waving them away. But she puts her hand on Sam's shoulder, and Sam does a turn, and he remembers that he was fucking this woman in a bathroom! [C laughs] Hell yeah! [C: Hell yeah.] And it is incredibly funny to me-

C: It's detailed. It's animalistic and detailed.

G: No, the person who left that review that was like, "Oh, yeah? This is your wife's favorite-" [C laughing] I will never forget that. Remember that? Someone left a review-

C: Yes, in "Heart." I remember.

G: Someone left- For those who may not remember, somebody left a review in the episode of "Heart" that was like, "Oh my god! This is my wife's favorite episode!" And then a couple of reviews later, somebody left a review saying, "Oh, yeah, no wonder this is your wife's favorite episode." And then with quotation marks somewhere. Anyway, every time Sam has a sex scene, that's all I think about. [C: So true.] And also, I do find it a little bit- Obviously, there are many things happening here that may contribute to Sam being distressed, such as that he's realizing that he was in this case before, he's realizing that there's stuff that he doesn't remember, and it's a very vivid sex scene that's happening in his brain. [both laugh] Many things happening. But it does also kind of come off that he's just shocked that he had sex, [laughs] so I was-

C: And with a married woman, too! [G: Anyway.] Dean says that this woman is giving Sam "cougar eyes." Is she that old? How old does he think she is?

G: No, she's literally maybe 28. [C laughs] [C: Literally, though.] And Sam is- how old is Sam now? Isn't he literally fucking 27? [C: I think so.] Or 28? He's literally 28.

C: I don't think he's 28.

G: He is! He's 22-

C: No, no, because Dean was 29 in Season 4, so Dean is 31, Sam's 27.

G: No, he was 26, dude!

C: In Season 1.

G: Okay, yeah, you're right, sorry. [laughs]

C: I'm talking about Season 4. He was 29 in Season 4, right? Is that right? Because of the song?

G: Yeah, because he dreamed about you for 29 years before he saw you. Why am I saying "you" like you? Well, when he saw Cas.

C: Yeah. You know what? Cas is also a brunette. Another Sastiel win!

-

C: So they're camped out in some abandoned house, trying to work out this case. I do like when they're camped out in an abandoned house because they're like, "This city's too small to have a motel." They're trying to figure out what's going on. And Sam thinks that what happened is just that it's the same monster as last year, but he and Samuel failed to stop it. And he's like, "And that means it's all my fault, and I have to fix it!" What if Samuel just had bad vibes?

G: [laughs] No, literally.

C: Yeah. And Dean says, "Okay, but why the genderbend, huh?" Which I'm surprised I haven't seen as a reaction image, you know? It seems like a screenshot.

G: Okay. In what situation would you react with, "But why the genderbend?"

C: I mean, people love the werewolf transgenderism screenshot. I just feel it would live there.

G: So true, maybe. You know, it is always so shocking 'cause people actually do use gifsets, and sometimes, those gifs would be from Supernatural, like, in the wild. [C: Yeah.] And it's always shocking. And this won't be on Tumblr-

C: You weren't on Tumblr in 2013.

G: No, but in the world at large. [laughs]

C: Okay. On Twitter?

G: Or the internet at large. Yeah, or, somebody will message you something, and they'll send you a gif, which I'm like, I am not a fan of sending gifs in conversation. [C: Yeah.] But when other people do it, and they send a Supernatural gif, and I'm, "Wow. You know I'm a Supernatural fan?" and they literally don't. It came up for no reason.

C: I like the one where Sam's on the phone, and then he passes out and falls on the sidewalk. [G laughs]

G: No, yeah. Is this the one where it's in every AMV. The one that you say is in every AMV where Sam's supposed to be having fun, but the AMV maker doesn't care? [laughs]

C: No, I don't think so. I don't think so. Dean says, "Let's call Bobby and Rufus to have them deal with it."

G: I just want to point out that at some point, he says, "Five guys went missing last year," and I think that's so important.

C: Oh. Like the burger?

G: Like the burger, yeah. Love the burger Five Guys. [C: I want a burger.] I had it once in Hong Kong, and I have not forgotten about it. It's good!

C: I really want a burger.

G: Yeah, of course. Why would you not want a burger?

C: No, you're right. I'll get a burger. [laughs] Because- Yeah, Dean's saying that they should call Bobby and Rufus to deal with it because hunters don't come to the same town twice because they usually leave messes behind.

G: Yeah. And he says, "Dad says you never use the same crapper twice." And Sam's like, "Everybody uses the same crap or twice." And Dean says, "Not us. You know what I mean!" which I thought was hilarious.

C: Yeah. And Sam says, "This creature is still walking around 'cause of me, right? I mean, I let it go." What if Samuel just had bad vibes?! [G laughs] And then he says, "Dad also said, 'You finish what you start,'" and that's the "Something Wicked" parallels again. And he says-

G: Yeah, I do love that they bring up John a lot for this one. I enjoyed it.

C: Yeah, I do enjoy it as well. It's where Sam got this mindset of having to make up for things.

G: And it's also where he got the mindset to use people as bait! [both laugh]

C: Soo true! And he's like, "Okay, Dean, I get that you're afraid that I'll get all my memories of Hell back and then [G: I'll fall over and die.] it'll fuck me up. I still have to do this because everyone who dies, that's on meee!" And he says, "I have to stop it, and you'd do the same thing." "Something Wicked" reference again. And Dean's like, "Okay, fine. I get it. Sure."

-

C: He goes over to interview Nicole's roommate. Nicole is the woman he said had "crazy sex eyes" or whatever earlier. Her roommate's blonde, which I guess means that she's safe. Dean is looking through the room, and he sees a business card from Agent Rourke, which was Sam's alias during the original case, and he learned that Sam came by a lot to speak to Nicole, and their conversations were "loud" and "athletic." [laughs]

G: Yeah. And we get a close-up shot of Dean's face, and I thought they were gonna play it for laughs. No, he's also really stern. And I was like, "Are we just upset that Sam was having sex? [laughs] What's going on?"

C: Well, I think it's just him realizing that this is a trap set for Sam thing.

G: But he hasn't realized it yet.

C: I think he can start to suspect it.

G: Yeah, I think it's also realizing the involvement that Sam has in this town. Sam wasn't just someone who passed by and whatever. He was involved in it.

C: Meanwhile, Sam's going to the sheriff's station to do some research, and he runs into that guy he beat up who isn't dead. And he immediately arrests Sam and is accusing him of being the one who killed those five people before, and killed the three people now. And he also keeps asking Sam, "Where's Sheriff Dobbs?" which he also asked in the flashback. So Sam's just stuck in this jail cell now, but then he gets approached by this woman Brenna, who's also a pretty brunette, like every other woman in this thing, and that's not super relevant because they didn't sleep together, but Roy does have a line later that makes it seem like Sam was trying to. She is the widow of Sheriff Dobbs, or- I guess he's still alive. So she's just the wife of Sheriff Dobbs. She's asking him what happened to her husband and also that he shouldn't lie to her because she knows that he's a hunter. And Sam starts getting a little flashback of him and Samuel actually telling Sheriff Dobbs and Brenna about what they do and asking for their help. Brenna's whole thing is that she just wants to know what happened. "Please tell me what happened." And Sam says, "I cannot, due to the amnesia." And he convinces her that the amnesia is real, and that he can help her. She just has the keys to the cell and lets him out-

G: No, why is that?

C: - and tells him to tie her up with the rope to stage a breakout.

G: There's this part where they're talking to the husband, right? And he was like, "Oh, blah blah blah, blah blah blah." And Sam goes, "Wait! Why is your wife here?" And then he goes, "Because she's my wife! And she does work for the office." And I was confused by that. [C: No?] What's that about? She's just there. She's a civilian worker.

C: Yeah, no, I'm confused. Was it just meant to be exposition?

G: Are there civilian workers in-

C: Yeah, there's receptionists, like Nancy in Season 3.

G: Yeah, okay. So she was a receptionist there?

C: Well, we don't know that. I don't know exactly what her job was.

G: I feel like those are relevant things, you know what I mean? for what he was trying to say. Again, I don't think your wife should be involved in your work. [both laugh]

C: Yeah. But yeah. And then we have a brief scene of Debbie, who's the woman who ran into Sam at the restaurant, and she and her husband seem unhappy in their marriage. She goes to the basement to get more wine, and a hand comes out of nowhere and grabs her.

G: She was getting boxed wine, which I love. Good for her.

C: So Sam's back to that abandoned house where they're camping out. He hears footsteps, and he jumps out and pulls a gun on the person who comes in, but it's only Dean. Dean comes in and is like, "I told you so! We're fugitives again. Great." And then they hear on the police radio another missing person, Debbie, I assume. Dean tells Sam to not go anywhere, and he'll check it out at Debbie's house. Dean has finished interviewing Don, her husband, and then leaves a message with Sam, saying that "The link between all the missing women is that they all banged the same dude. [both] You." [G: Love it.] And all of this is a trap for Sam. So did Debbie tell Don about it- or no, probably not. He was just like, "They seemed really close" or whatever.

G: What do you mean did Debbie tell Don?

C: That she slept with Sam. 'Cause how did Dean figure it out?

G: I mean, probably the same way that-

C: But the roommate knew.

G: Yeah, because she heard. Well, I suppose, I don't know.

C: He already suspected from the cougar eyes or whatever, so I don't really see what-

G: Yeah, that's true. Maybe Sam told Dean! [laughs] He like, "I think I fucked that woman."

C: No, he deliberately has not been telling Dean that he's been having the flashback.

G: Oh, that's true. But maybe he was like, "I have vibes that-"

C: or I guess they didn't know who the missing person was, right? So he went over, he saw a picture of Don's wife, and he was like, "Oh, that's the woman that probably Sam fucked." So, yeah, that's probably it. Yeah.

G: He was like, "She's blonde, and she's from here."

C: Brunette, but yes. [G laughs]

G: She's literally brunette, and she's from here.

-

G: We go to Brenna's house. This is the woman who let Sam go earlier. And Sam's like, "Oh, I'm sorry. I'm not supposed to be here. But I need to know stuff." And the woman is like, "Actually, what happened to Debbie Harris? Because she's just gone. I let you out, and now she's gone. What am I supposed to think?" Do you think she also knows that Sam slept with her?

C: I don't know.

G: It seems that they all know.

C: Who's "they all"?

G: Everyone in this community is like, "Oh, yeah, that's the guy who fucked through all the women in this town a year ago" or something.

C: Wait, why do they all know?

G: No, why do they all know?

C: What makes you think that they all know?

G: Because the implication here that "Oh, you knew her," quote-unquote "knew" her. What's that about?

C: She doesn't say that he knew her.

G: No, yeah. But I feel it's implied. Or maybe it's only implied because I already know that.

C: Yeah, I think it's really just- [G: Somebody's missing.] "After the last year, we suspected that you were involved in the missing people. And now, while you were in jail, nobody went missing, and then, after you were out, somebody went missing. Are you killing people again?"

G: Yeah, Sam's puppy dog eyes do double time this episode. [C: Uh-huh.] He basically managed to convince this woman to let him out earlier because of it. And now, he's just like, "Do you think I did something to her?" And then, you know, does the very big eyes. And she's like, "I don't know!" And Sam just says, "Look, you know, what I need your help with is that the case files. They're not in the precinct, so perhaps you took it. I need it from you." And she- Honestly, I'm impressed by this woman. [both laugh] I'm impressed that she's just like, "Okay! Whatever." [C: No, yeah, she's not-] She's not just "Okay." But her reactions seem so benevolent towards Sam Winchester [C: Yes.] at every situation. She believes that he had amnesia. He didn't even need to fucking get out of that cell. Here, she lets him take the case files. And later, Sam is like, "Oh, I need the case files to go." [C laughs] And she's like, "Okay, take it out!"

C: No, yeah. What is- I just don't- I don't believe that anybody would be this helpful to Sam Winchester, especially because the last time she met him, he was a dick!

G: Yeah. And I do wonder, what are they trying to do? Because there must be a reason why they chose a character so benevolent to be here. Is it-

C: They just needed plot things.

G: No, because I was thinking, if she was angry, would that make us then feel more empathetic towards Sam? And they're trying to make us less empathetic towards Sam?

C: I don't think they're trying to make us less empathetic towards Sam. I think if she was angry- I don't know. I think we're just supposed to- It's supposed to be sort of a big reveal, the bait thing. [G: Ah.] And you just shouldn't be thinking of Sam as somebody who did anything that bad yet, so that means everyone has to be niceys to him.

G: Mm, perhaps. He was also- Every flashback we have with her, he was an asshole. [C: Right.] I just don't think she would give him this benefit of the doubt. [C: I agree.]

She is getting the files. Sam gets a whole entire flashback of all of them sitting on a couch. And I found this scene so odd because it's something they never do. They're never just-

C: They usually do not tell people.

G: No, first, they don't tell people. And second, they don't sit on the couch, drinking, talking about their life.

C: I mean, might be the Samuel effect.

G: That's true. Anyway, they're sitting on the couch. Samuel's literally- he's chilling. He's lounging, even. And I suppose they told these people, "Sam is my grandson." But he's young! [laughs]

C: Yeah, I don't know. He probably just said he has a great moisturizing routine.

G: No, that's true.

C: Also, wasn't JDM only 12 years older than Jensen Ackles or something when he was playing John?

G: Why did he look so old? [C laughs] I'm so sorry to that man.

C: Let me check the actual ages. Yeah, no, I got them right. 12 years.

G: Yeah. Well, happy 12 years or something. I suppose, for example, you had your child when you were in your twenties. [C: Okay.] And then your child had their child when they were in their twenties. And Sam is in his twenties. It makes sense, probably.

C: Well, okay, how old is the actor for Samuel Campbell?

G: At this time?

C: Or just how many years older is he than Jared Padalecki? Okay, he was born in 1952...

G: Wow, he's old.

C: Jared Padalecki...

G: 1984.

C: 1982.

G: Okay. Good thing I got it wrong. Imagine if I got it right. [laughs]

C: 30 years older. 30 years older, you could have- I don't know. I guess people have kids when they're 15. You could do it twice, I guess. [laughs]

G: No. [laughs] I mean he talks about being a hunter while being married.

C: People have been hunters at age 15.

G: That's maybe true, but he doesn't look only 30 years older, to be fair to him. No, he does. He look 60 or something. [C: Yeah.] Do you think they gave the back story of "Oh, the reason why I look so young-"

C: No, I don't think they gave the pulled down from Heaven backstory.

G: They should have! Do you think it will give you more or less comfort in life to know that there is a Heaven and Hell situation?

C: Less!

G: Yeah, no, I think it'd make me so miserable.

C: I don't want that shit.

G: I think if I die, I want it over. [C: Yeah.] Gone. Sleep forever. That's what I want.

C: Also, yeah, okay, if it was both Heaven and Hell, I think my main stressor would be, "How do I avoid going to the bad place? I don't want to be tortured for eternity, and I don't want my friends to do it either." If I knew that there was only a Heaven and no Hell, it would also stress me out. I want it done.

G: Literally. Would you kill yourself or not?

C: What?

G: No, [laughs] if you only knew there was Heaven. Only Heaven.

C: I don't think it's that fun up there, and most of the people I like are here.

G: Oh, okay, so it's that kind of "It's stressing me out. I want it done." Supernatural has a fucked up Heaven, number one.

C: Right.

G: They're talking about family and how Samuel’s like, "Love is love" or whatever. I forgot what he was saying. He was definitely not saying "love is love." [C laughs] So the couple that they're talking to is asking, "What's that like? Because you're traveling a lot. Isn't that difficult?" It's kind of wild to me that people would hear that Sam and Dean or other hunters are hunters, and that's what they do, and this is the implications of their job, and the first thing they ask is like, "But what about being on the road?"

C: I don't think it's the first thing. [G: Many people-] They've been talking for a while.

G: That's true. Maybe they're like, "Whoa, tell me about your story as if you're Hercules!" And then, after a while, they're like, "What's this about? What's all this, then?" I mean, what would you ask Sam and Dean if they told you, "Hey, I'm a hunter."

C: What's a hunter? Like, of animals?

G: Yeah. And then they say, "No. Of monstahs!"

C: Like, "Is this a white supremacist thing? What do you mean?"

G: That's- [laughs] Yeah, that is probably- I think I'll just go, "Mmkay." [both laugh] Okay. Well, you're not special, so.

C: Yeah, I think if they were like, "No, real creatures," I would just be like, "Okay, conspiracy theorists. Have a good day."

G: Yeah. I think, actually, I would engage them in conversations, and then I'll come home being like, "Oh, ma! There's people killing vampires that I saw." She'll be, "Okay."

C: No, I mean, yeah. I mean, I talked to someone yesterday who genuinely believes that her friend's restaurant is haunted, and she's gonna go over and burn sage to get it out, so I would just assume that they were that, I suppose.

G: No, yeah. And I mean, I am also that person. I do also burn- not sage. I don't even know what sage is. But I burn incense when-

C: Sage is an indigenous American tradition that a lot of white people have-

G: Sage? In the first episode of Succession that you did watch and then didn't like, there was- Roman brought in a guy to air out the building. Do you remember? No, you don't.

C: No.

G: Yeah, and it's supposed to be a fun little prank joke, whatever, for Kendall. So I think people- [laughs] white people specifically, because Roman Roy is white, surprise to everyone-

C: No way.

G: - that's what they may be doing. So they're like, "It's traveling. What's that about?" And Samuel goes, "No, you know what? It is difficult. And it puts a strain on your family. But family is so importies!" And when Deanna- How does he pronounce it? Deanna? [C: Deanna?] "Well, when Deanna got pregnant, I was like, 'Oh, no!' but we made it work, and she was a blessing."

C: RIP to no abortion. Ruined Mary's life, ruined Deanna's life, etc.

G: Yeah, she's dead.

C: And Samuel's walking around. The husband Roy was like, "I'm gonna go get some more drinks." But Samuel's like, "No, let me do it." So he gets out of his incredibly comfy, cozy seat and goes to get more beer. And so they ask Sam, "How about you? What's your situation? It's so wonderful that-" What did they ask?

C: "At least you two have each other"?

G: "It's so wonderful that you two have each other." And Sam's like, "No, he was not there when I was a kid. This is just a business relationship." [C laughs] And then Brenna goes, "Okay, well, do you have any other family?" [C laughing] And Sam just goes, "Family just slows you down."

C: He's so funny.

G: Hilarious.

C: Answer the question, dude.

G: Yeah. That's the end of our flashback sequence. You know what I did find hilarious about this question is, it reminds me of that thing people do when they ask you about something, and you say something that they find sad or whatever, and then they go, "Oh, but-" [laughs] And then they propose something good about your life that you may be happy about. [C: Yeah.] And I thought this is a hilarious way to respond to that. So kudos to soulless Sam. I think it's so fucking funny.

Sam keeps on having a flashback? This flashback is so long. But now, he's in a different place, and they're talking about who they think it is. It's Arachne. Isn't Arachne an actual-

C: Myth?

G: Yeah, but I think it's one being, right?

C: Yeah, no, it's one being.

G: It's not a set of monsters.

C: But they say that she's an Arachne. Yeah, I think Supernatural is just taking liberties. Or I mean, maybe the Arachne of the myth is the alpha Arachne in the Supernatural lore.

G: Yeah, perhaps. Anyway, they're saying something that they keep on saying with other monsters, too, which is that nobody has seen her outside of this specific location, and now she's here. And also, for 2,000 years. Samuel says that they don't know anything about Arachne, just a bunch of guesses in a blurry picture on the side of a Greek vase, which I did find- What did they mean, a blurry picture on the side of a Greek vase? What are you talking about?

C: No, yeah, they made it blurry in the painting? I don't think they did. It could be an old vase that's no longer around, and they only have a low-res photo of it.

G: Anyway, the waitress goes up to a guy who is sitting in front of them because he is the pirate who ate all the burgers or something. And Sam turns around as they snap a shot for the wall, and that's how his face got into the polaroid. So basically, they're like, "Okay, so we don't know how to kill this thing. Let's just find out." And also, Sam says, "Well, what we do know is all the victims have been men in their thirties, and they've all gone missing within a two-mile radius." And Samuel's like, "Okay, so we should just go out there and figure it out?" But Sam's like, "No, we're not the proper demographic for this! And so we should find someone who's a demographic for it!"

C: He points out a park where he thinks that she's hiding.

G: Anyway, we go back to real life or present day. That was also real life. Well, it was fictional life, but Sam is like, "Oh my god!" And he's like- Every single end of this fucking flashbacks, he's always a little bit teary-eyed. But anyway, at this point, Sam has been looking at the files. He got stuck on a evidence that-

C: Was it a piece of spider web?

G: Yes spider web. And so he tells Brenna, "Hey, I need to take out these evidence," and she shockingly goes, "Yes." But what Brenna says is "I have accepted that he's dead. I just want to know what happened." And Sam goes, "I'm sure he died a hero," which did make later, [C laughs] when he tells the guy, "You're a hero," it did make me go, "Oh my god!" Well, anyway, Sam heads out, and as he heads out, there's a fucking spider web on the side of the house, and he's looking at it. Then, he gets a voicemail from Dean and Dean saying, "They all fucked you. That's what's in common with the victims." But Sam just goes up to the spider web. And then suddenly, somebody taps him or something. And he turns around, weapons out-

C: We also get a POV shot from an Arachne [G: Oh, yeah! And it's like-] where Sam's in a bunch of pieces- Like an eight eyes sort of situation.

G: Yeah, it's pretty cool. I thought it was pretty cool. Anyway, Dean is like, "Okay. We need to get out of here. Let's go." And then they go back to their abandoned house they're staying at that is super fun. And Sam says that it's an Arachne, and that he remembered, and Dean starts going like, "What? Remembered? What else did you remember?" And Sam says, "No, don't worry. It's not Hell." And Dean's like, "Okay, well, not yet, anyway." Dean says they have to go, but Sam says, "Noo, we can't!" because he thinks it's fine, and also that he should be responsible. And Dean says, "We're not the only hunters in the planet. We can call Bobby. We can call Rufus." Love it. [C: Yeah.] Every time they mention Rufus, l love it. and he specifically says that Bobby and Rufus can wrap it up. So true.

C: Yeah, no. They should hunt together. I assume the next time we see Rufus, he's dying, yes? He dies in Season 6. That's probably why they're mentioning him so much.

G: Yeah, or they give him one episode and then they kill him. That's so sad! I just realized that, too.

C: Yeah. [G: Yeah.] Aw. Well, we'll miss you.

G: And Sam says it's difficult because he knows what or who did it, he just can't remember. And Dean says, "We can't have you trying to remember because it's fucking Russian roulette up there." And Sam says, "Well, if it's gonna happen, then it's gonna happen." [both laugh] He says, "It will, or it won't," and that's so importies. He says that he's starting to think he may actually have done some terrible stuff in this town, and he has to set it right because he has a fucking soul now!

C: He says specifically that his soul "won't let him just walk away," [G: Love it!] which I think is fun because it's similar phrasing to in "Clap Your Hands If You Believe" when Dean says, "You wouldn't have been able to fuck Patchouli in the dark because your soul wouldn't have let you."

G: Dean's like, "Okay, let's fucking go!" And then they do.

-

C: Yeah. So they start doing a red yarn evidence wall. [G laughs] [both] Love it.

G: And this is why they should always be in an abandoned house because you can fucking vandalize the shit out of it. [C: That's true.] I mean, I suppose you can also vandalize the shit out of a motel room.

C: Yeah, but it's not as nice. [G: Yeah.] So Sam starts having flashbacks where he calls Roy and tells him to meet them in Lonely Pines Park in an hour because they're setting him up as bait because Sam's too young and Samuel's too old [G: Old.] for what the Arachne's looking for.

G: Samuel is protesting, but not that much.

C: Yeah. He says, "I think we should have looped Roy in," and Sam's like, "Well, he'll be a bad actor if we loop him in." And Samuel says one more, "What if something goes wrong?" which, they don't even know how to kill this thing yet. They absolutely should not be making this plan. And Sam's just like, "Roy will be fine!" And then Samuel, his last protestation is just, "It's just not the way I'm used to doing things." And Sam just says, "Got it. Welcome to the future!" I guess he- Because, okay, he talks a lot about how Samuel doesn't understand technology. I feel he could have used this whole "You don't understand the times" thing on him a lot while they were partnered.

G: I think that is a way in which we can cut Samuel some slack. If this was especially early on in their hunting partnership, he may not have met all of his other relatives yet and stuff, so Sam may be his only tether to the modern day.

C: Well, they said a year ago, and Dean was back for six months, so this would have been six months into Sam being back.

G: Yeah, but you know how when people say "a year ago," it can mean a year and 11 months ago.

C: That's true. Yeah, I guess we could cut Samuel some slack. So now they're camped out in the park, one million miles away from where Roy's standing. They're really not in a bush right behind him. They're far. I have no idea how they thought this was gonna work.

G: Well, it wasn't supposed to.

C: Roy gets attacked and taken immediately, quickly, and Samuel's like, "We gotta go get him!" And Sam's like, "No! It's too late! And also, don't worry. I have the GPS on in his phone." And Samuel's like, "Oh my god! I can't believe you did this! This was your plan all along?" And Sam goes, "Um, no? [both] This is just my backup plan! Think about it!"

G: "This is my Plan B!"

C: "Yeah!" And Samuel says, "Wow, you're really cold, and I don't like it. But let's just keep doing your thing." So they go to Arachne's lair, and there's a lot of men there, all in spider webs. Samuel cuts through the webbing to have one of the men's faces exposed, and he seems dead, but then he gasps awake. So everyone in there is still alive. And Roy starts calling out for help, and Sam, you know, cuts some of the webbing off, but only so he can ask Roy where the Arachne is. And there's a brief fight where she jumps Sam, and then he cuts her head off, and she's dead now. And Samuel's like, "Okay, great. Let's get all these men to a hospital." And Sam just goes, "I don't think he can be helped! I just don't think so, you know? With spiders, [G: A brown recluse.] sometimes, a spider bites you, and you die. So I think that in this case with a supernatural monster that we know absolutely nothing about, that probably the poison's already too far progressed, and everyone here will just die!"

G: I know spiders, too, and some spiders literally don't have any venom, so like, what's that about?

C: Yeah. Yeah. What is that about? But yeah, it's just such a- I feel it stretches belief. [G: Yeah.] I think if Sam was like, "I read the lore and it said this," I'd be like, "Okay, that's fine. I think that this is a level of cold that soulless Sam could be."

G: The point is not that he's evil. [C: Yeah.] It's that he's calculated in a way that is severe, and those are different things. [C: Yes.] Again, if it's made clear that these people are not gonna survive for real, him shooting them dogs on the floor is severe, but it's not a complete evil, you know what I mean? And they do try to play this out that by the way Sam's insisting, but it just- Sam is not like, "It's inconvenient." You know what I mean. The way they point it out is that Sam doesn't want to take them to the hospital because it's inconvenient or it won't do anything, but he doesn't know that for a fact. And despite this, the way that Samuel agrees, or at the very least doesn't disagree, is also like, what are we doing here?

C: So Sam's saying, we have to put everyone here [G: On fire.] out of their misery. So yeah. And he tells Roy- Roy's begging Sam not to do it. But Sam says, "Killing this thing saved a lot of lives. We couldn't have done it without you. You're a hero." and then he shoots him, and he does it with everybody else. [G: No, yeah.] And then he tells Samuel that they should now burn this shack down. The end.

G: Yeah, it is shocking, which is what it's supposed to do. I wish they did it a little bit more better to make it clear that Sam isn't repenting because he was evil, or- You know what I mean. He's repenting because there are ways he could have interfaced with it in a completely different way. [C: Right.] Yeah, for example, the bait thing. Yeah, I believe that soulless Sam would do that because he did it with Dean. But with Dean, he knew for a fact that Dean is gonna have a cure. With this one, it just betrays an active carelessness that is- I don't know, maleficent in nature. It's s over the line in a way that defeats the purpose. You know what I mean? Sam's guilt, I don't think it should just be, "And you were evil, and that's why." [C: Right.] It should be showing that doing bad things isn't just about having those bad intentions and then acting on it. You can do bad things just completely neutral emotionally. I don't know. Stuff like that. And I feel that is what soulless Sam was leaning more towards. What you said earlier, the comparison that they make with sleeping with Patchouli, right? That's not a bad thing, but it just betrays a lack of care that is hurtful to someone who expects you to care, and that is more the vibe of Sam's actions. I don't know. Maybe I'm just romanticizing- [laughs]

C: The hunter life?

G: No, soulless Sam. But yeah, I just- Yeah. Didn't like this one.

C: Yeah, this feels very off. Yeah, I don't know if it's just a writing mistake where they were like, "That's probably enough for the viewer to think that they're definitely gonna die of the poison," or if it's a making him out to be more callous than we think that he should be.

G: I think it serves the same purpose as why the wife is so forgiving or so trusting of Sam. It doesn't necessarily align with what is the reality of the characterization or the situation, but it's to accentuate the points that they are trying to make.

C: Perhaps. And what are those points?

G: That like, "Noo! Sam feels so bad!" That's the point.

C: Very true. Yeah.

C: I guess, oh, we should probably mention by this point that Roy is Black.

G: Yeah, and I think he's the only Black character in the episode.

C: Yeah, yeah, all of these women are pale as ghosts. [G: Yeah.] And Supernatural has had a history of having Sam kill Black men as a way of showing that he's going off the rails, [G: Yeah.] like with Jake and Gordon in past seasons, and I don't know what the casting deal here was with Roy. I think it'd be insane if they specifically were looking for a Black man to play this character, [both laugh] but I think that the optics are still the same, and it comes off as quite racist, especially with the, as you, Grey, put it, the shooting them like dogs on the ground part of it.

G: Yeah, and especially because- I mean, okay, they kill Roy again.

C: No, literally! [both laugh] They do it twice! They're like, "Shot in the head isn't enough. Let's also decapitate him." Like, no! Don't do that!

G: Yeah, so, you know.

C: Yeah, yeah. They were like, "Gordon got decapitated. Jake got shot. Let's do both of them on this guy who's literally fine and chill." [G: Yeah.]

-

C: We're back to Brenna, and she's alone, and Roy comes in, but he's without his glasses. He had glasses before, right?

G: No idea. Probably.

C: Okay. He had glasses in my mind.

G: Well, he has no glasses, whether-

C: [laughs] And that's the only thing that's different about him! He looks like the Arachne-

G: Yeah. He also has blue eyes.

C: Yeah, he has blue eyes. This also happened to my friend Louis de Pointe du Lac, very sad.

G: That's true, yeah. And he has a bullet hole in- Not a bullet. It's a healed-over wound on his forehead, and he looks like he has- he looks like a fire victim. Also, I wasn't actually sure if that was the fire because when they show Arachne-

C: She has something going on with her skin. It's just harder to tell in the black and white.

G: Yeah, so I wasn't sure. But I think this one is combo Arachne situation, but also because he was burned down with that device.

C: Indeed. So he comes in, and he tells her, "I love you." And then-

G: I want to point out, they make a point of saying that the people just want to bury the bodies or whatever this episode as well, which they also said, last episode, which you have said last episode they were trying to parallel some stuff with.

C: I don't remember anything. What are you talking about? What even was the last episode?

G: Last episode, there was a plane crash and the virgins, right? They couldn't find the bodies, and they were saying, "We don't have anything to bury, even."

C: Oh, well, that's not related- Oh, I thought- Okay, I thought they were trying because it was her sister talking about it. [G: Oh.] I thought they were making a "Swan Song" Sam and Dean parallel.

G: I was actually wondering what the no body situation was all about. I suppose Dean also didn't have a body to bury.

C: Yeah, but, you know, Sam was buried. We saw him fall into a big hole!

G: [laughs] So true. And also, we forgot to specifically mention it. They use this guy as bait, which is also a "Something Wicked" reference. I love that idea, that to show that Sam is evil, let's have him use this guy as bait, something Dean Winchester did.

C: It's not explicitly stated in "Something Wicked" that John used them as bait. That was sort of a theory that we had. I don't even know if the writers would say that it was intended.

G: I think it was pretty- I mean, okay, I don't think it was explicit because we only also realized it when we were recording.

C: Yeah, and we haven't seen people post about it like it's real.

G: Except that one poster that I got mad at because they got the ages wrong. I think I am so in deep with Supernatural-

C: Now?

G: No no no, back then, I would be like, "I'm so mad at people who has wrong opinions!" And then, after a while, I was like, "Oh, I've chilled out! I chilled out." I think I'm starting to realize that I only chilled out because I have stopped being on Tumblr all the time. [C: Yeah.] Every time I go on Tumblr and I see a post that I disagree with, I'm like, "How dare you?" So, you know, it's still there.

C: It's still there.

G: It's still pretty much there.

-

C: Meanwhile, back with Sam and Dean, Sam is calling Brenna to tell her about what happened, I guess.

G: How will he, even? How will he, even?

C: Was he really planning to tell her the whole truth? Or was he just gonna be, "The Arachne took him. [G: Got to him.] And then, when we got to the lair, he was dead or something." [G: Yeah.] I don't know, because he tells Dean to relax when Dean's like, "What are you gonna say?" Sam calls, but then, apparently, Brenna told him to swing by, just casually, but it seems that she's in some kind of trouble. What I thought was gonna happen was that she and Roy were teaming up to kill Sam now because she's pissed at him. I thought that that would be fun. But no, she's not.

G: I hate that she's just standing there the entire time.

C: Yeah, she's like, "No, Roy! Don't kill him!" Whatever. Your zombie husband just came back and said that this guy killed him. I don't know. I feel you are probably in a place where you would be on the zombie husband's side!

They sneak over to her house, and the light is on in the shed. So they go in, and Brenna's curled up in a corner, and she asks Sam, "What you did to Roy. Is it true?" And then Roy, he whacks Dean and then does, you know, the Sam chokehold wall thing and tells him to answer the question. So Sam and Dean are now all spiderwebbed up. Sam tells Roy, "You win. Let Brenna go. This has nothing to do with her." I wasn't aware that she was in any physical danger. Because all we saw earlier was that he showed up and told her that he loved her. That seemed like a normal, nice thing to do. I don't understand what what she needs to be let go from.

G: Yeah, she's literally normal.

C: No, she's not harmed. I can't tell what she's actually afraid of or dislikes about the situation.

G: I don't think she's afraid. I don't think she's afraid of him.

C: She called Sam to come over. Why did she do that?

G: No, I think it's to trap Sam!

C: But is it? Because- but okay. But Sam's acting like Roy has Brenna in his clutches.

G: No, but I think he's just stupid for that.

C: But there's nothing that happens that shows us that Sam's wrong. What happens is Brenna going, "Roy, don't do it!" when he's trying to kill Sam and Dean, which sort of is on Sam's side regarding what's happening here.

G: Yeah, but she's not tied up in any situation, she's not- there's nothing to suggest that she's scared.

C: So why did Sam say it?

G: Because he has an assumption that everyone is out to kill everyone if they're monsters.

C: Does he?

G: Yeah.

C: But okay. But also, Roy responds, right? He says, "It does have something to do with her," which is also him confirming Sam's narrative. He doesn't say, "What? We're literally chilling."

C: No, I think he's confirming that it has something to do with her, but it doesn't mean that he has her captive.

C: I guess. But they they just never really settle what's happening here, I suppose.

G: I mean, I also just find it so- I hate it so much that the entrance to his anger towards Sam is like, "Oh, yeah, you're gonna fuck my wife!"

C: No, yeah. [laughs] He says, "You come back around, start hanging out with my wife, and you think this has nothing to do with her? But then you thought I was out of the way, right?" Like, yeah, no. How is this- [laughs] I think he should just mostly be mad that Sam killed him [G laughs] and used him as bait-

G: And then set his body on fire! That's the part that I was stuck on. I was like, "Who-" And also, I kind of feel like they were into-

C: It's like, "Actually, I'm mad because you wanna fuck my wife"? I don't- They weren't into each other!

G: And also, there's this just general idea of cuckoldry in this episode. [C: Right.] [laughs] Yeah. And nobody even has horns to show for it. [C: For real.] So I don't know. Earlier in the episode, the lady that Sam had sex with in the sink, her husband is shown to be brooding a little bit.

C: Yeah, he's upset about it.

G: Yeah, so I don't know. They had something going on with it. Sam is a cucker. Is that a word?

C: [laughing] Yeah, I think so.

G: It's always so fascinating to me that the word "cuck" is so old. [C: No, yeah, it is.] It's so old. It's such an old fucking word. It's the same way I'm like, [laughs] "They've had tennis for such a long time!"  That's how I feel about it, too. [C: True.] Shout out to Challengers or something.

C: Yeah. And then he says that the Arachne wasn't there to feed, she was here to breed. She was turning all of those men into other Arachnes. So by the time Roy was killed, he wasn't human anymore, so the bullet and the fire didn't do anything. So yeah, he said that he was hiding out for months, almost starved, but, you know, what kept him going was how he was gonna get revenge on Sam. So I guess during the hiding out, he figured out everybody Sam fucked and his phone number, [laughs] [G: Yeah.] but it took a whole year and all of that, I guess, because he was starving and adjusting. It's just- as a plot thing, it just doesn't work very well for me.

G: The thing is, I'm not even sure they were conscious that they were doing a hunter parallel, and that's what sucks about this because it's very obviously a hunter parallel, but they don't engage with it in any way that would suggest that they give a fuck that this is the case. So yeah, I don't know.

C: That he was hunting Sam?

G: Yeah!

C: Yeah, yeah. He was hitting up the library of women Sam Winchester fucked.

G: Yeah. "And now he's gonna fuck my wife!" [both laughing]

C: What is this?

G: [laughing] I just don't like this episode.

C: What is this? Yeah. And Roy says that he turned all of the women that Sam had sex with, and he's wondering if he should kill Sam or turn him. But this whole time, Dean has sort of been reaching for a glass shard and getting himself out of the webs.

G: This guy has an eight-eye vision. He didn't see Dean try to get that fucking thing.

C: I guess not. I guess he was focused on Sam or something. But yeah, he attacks Roy, and then Brenna frees Sam from the webs because Roy is maybe gonna kill Dean or something. So she lets Sam go, and then Sam chops off Roy's head, and he's dead. I hate it.

G: I don't understand Brenna as a character.

C: Yeah. What is her deal?

G: And I don't think we are supposed to, because she's not treated like a person. She is a plot device, that's it.

C: She is helpful, and she is there, and the whole time-

G: And she's there to be nice to Sam but mad at him.

C: Yeah, but barely. Just a little bit.

G: Yeah. And so Sam can ask for forgiveness, but she's not even- I think that's the whole thing that they were going for. There's this person who has all the goodness in her heart, is willing to give Sam all the benefit of the doubt, and she still won't forgive him, so it's really Sam's fault. That's the issue that they're going. That's the angle that they're going for. Because I think if they presented someone who was shouting at Sam, "You killed my husband!" then Sam can flagellate with that fucking guilt. But here, he can't because she's not engaging with him. [C: Yeah.] And I think that's what they're going for. I just hate that they have to do this to a character to do it.

C: Yeah, and a woman. If it was a man, I'd be like, "[both] It's fine." [G: Yeah.] This whole episode, she said over and over again, "All I want to do is find out what happened. I've made peace with the fact that he's dead," etc. And they just don't give her a moment to process any of the him coming back. She just goes, "Oh, no, he's trying to kill people now. I don't like it. Sam, get him!" What?

G: She walks back to her house- Oh, she doesn't. Maybe she rides with them. That's why Sam's there. But Sam's tailing her [laughs], and he's saying, "Look, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry, Brenna." And I'm just thinking, "What do you think is gonna happen, Sam?" [C laughs]

C: "Uh, it's okay."

G: Genuinely, what did he think was gonna happen? And I think what I hate about this is something undeniable about Sam's character, which is that he wants to be forgiven. And that is a recurring situation for Sam. That's his deal. He wants to- He is guilty all the time, and he wants to be forgiven for things. This is a situation where that's just not gonna happen. It's just not gonna happen. And so it becomes incredibly self-serving [C: Yeah.] to even seek an apology, or to even give an apology because then, you're placing the onus of forgiveness on the other person. And it's like, 1. It's not gonna happen. 2. If you really care about what she feels, just fucking leave her alone. [C: Yeah.] So yeah, it's frustrating, but it is something Sam Winchester will do.

C: Yeah, that's Sam.

G: Yeah. Anyway, she just doesn't give a fuck. Doesn't even turn around to acknowledge him and just goes into her house. Anyway, we go back to the abandoned house. They're packing up. And Sam says, "Yeah, you're right. We shouldn't have come back here." And Dean basically says, "You have to understand that everything that happened last year is not you." And Sam says, "No, it was. It was me." And Dean's like, "Okay, well, I give up. Do you want anything?" [laughs] And Sam's like, "Whatever, Dean. Shut the fuck up. I'm fine." And Dean says, "You know what? Everything's gonna be okay." And Sam says, "I don't know, Dean. If I did this here, who knows what else I've-" but then, he collapses on the ground. And he is shaking. What's it called? What's it called? He's convulsing, yeah. And Dean goes up to him and we see that Sam's eyes are open, but he seems, you know, out of it. And then we go into Sam's eye, and we see that what he is seeing is that he is burning in Hell. [C: Yup!] End of episode.

C: End of eppysode.

-

G: Yeah. Well, what do we really think about this episode? It was fine when it's fine, and it's not when it's not. And more of the time, it's not fine than it was fine.

C: Yeah, not so good. Not so good, I think. [laughs]

G: Yeah. Best Line/Worst Line.

C: I think worst line was the whole, "You're gonna come back and fuck my wife thing."

G: Yeah, [laughs] I hated it. Who- I hate it. I think I also- you know what? The opposite of that is my favorite. When Debbie, the woman that Sam had sex with, goes, "What? The boxed stuff doesn't get better with age, Don!" [C laughing] I love that line. So true. [laughs]

C: [laughing] Yeah, so true!

G: I love a horrible wine. I love it. The super sweet ones that are like, "What are we doing here?" I love them. [C: Yeah.] So that's that's my hot take.

C: Yeah, I think I like the exchange at the end where Dean says that "None of it was you," and Sam says, "Let's be crystal-" Wow! Me reference! [G: Whoo!] "Let's be crystal clear, okay? It was me." [G: Yeah.] I liked seeing Sam put his foot down in that way.

G: Yeah, it's so fun that both our names are just words. Love it.

C: Love it.

G: I would say, what is-

C: You already gave your best line.

G: No, my worst line!

C: Oh. You don't agree with mine? [G: Oh, yeah.] You think I'm stupid? [both laugh]

G: I think you're stupid?

C: There's probably other bad ones.

G: There's other bad ones. Let's see.

C: Yeah, we should diversify.

G: Well, I think the whole "Sam has amnesia" thing is hilarious, but every time they were like, "Oh, so you're saying you have amnesia?" I just hated it. [C: Huh.] [laughs] I have the most pointless Best Line/Worst Line this episode. [both laughing] Well, sometimes, your best line and your worst line are completely irrelevant to anything. [C: Sometimes.] Okay, spread those sheets. Let us see BABPod stats.

C: "Unforgiven" is such an unserious episode. I just feel everything else is a reference to something right. And this one, they were we really have to drive home the emotional [G: The point, yeah.] whatever. Let's just call it "Unforgiven."

G: Okay, misogyny. I do think there is some misogyny in the way they portray the women of this episode. I would say... a 1?

C: What would you say? I feel like a 1 is a passing remark. I feel like it's a 2.

G: Okay, it's a 2. Okay, go on. There is racism.

C: Racism, I'd say it's inherent. Maybe not in the planning of it, but in how it's presented.

G: Yeah, I'd say a 3. [C: Yeah.] Homophobia?

C: Homophobia, I don't remember anything of that caliber occurring.

G: Yeah. It's so iconic, the homophobia stats this season. So just for reference, we gave a 3 for Episode 1, which is when they were like, "Wow! You're gay for having a wife." [C laughs] And then a couple 1s here and there, and then we gave a 4 to "Clap Your Hands If You Believe," the worst episode of all time, [both laugh] which we also gave a 4 on ableism for.

C: Yeah. Big win.

G: It's an odd episode, so you guess first. Oh my god, I'm actually tense about our IMDb because there's a chance I may not win.

C: There is a chance. Okay, I don't think people like this [G: Definitely not.] because I've never heard anybody talk about it a single time. Season 6 has been the season of 7s. I think that it is a- Okay, our last 7 was "All Dogs Go to Heaven."

G: What even was "All Dogs Go to Heaven"? Oh, the guy who became a dog.

C: Lucky, yeah. How does this compare to the guy who became a dog?

G: It's honestly pretty similar. [laughs]

C: Okay, I'm going to give it a 7.7. I think it's a guy who became a dog.

G: It has the same emotional core, [both laugh] which is an incredibly funny thing to say. But in my mind's eye.

C: What was the emotional core? Oh, no, it literally ends with him being like- He goes to a woman's house and him being like, "I'm so sorry! I'm so sorry!" and her shutting the door on him. No, it's actually literally that. [G laughs]

G: Yeah, see? I was right. I would give this a 7 point-

C: And he killed her husband, too! [G laughs] Yeah, no, this is literally "All Dogs Go to Heaven." It's a 7.7.

G: Yeah, this is a double feature for- I would give this a 7.8. Ooh! It's a 7.9.

C: What? Oh, fuck! Well, good job. [G: This is good because-] C: We both did quite well, though, at least.

G: Yeah, this is good because it does provide tension to our end of episodes. [laughs]

This one says, "This is worse editing than Battlefield Earth," which is, I'm assuming, a movie that has bad editing. "This episode is filled with flashbacks, and each flashback is done in the worst possible way. [both laughing] They do sideways camera angles and cheap, quick editing as well as black-white contrast. Not only is it physically difficult to watch, but the writing is also hilariously bad. A citizen unlocks a prison cell because they somehow had the key for no reason-"

C: She works there!

G: "- and she says, 'Tie me up so it looks like a breakout. Why would an unlocked cell-" [both laughing]

C: [laughing] "- look like a breakout? People don't break out of prison by unlocking the cell!" No, you're so right! "I can't believe this episode was even allowed to be aired. It's so badly done in every way."

G: I love this! I love this! These are the kind of reviews that we need in our life! Oh, that's wonderful! And it was left behind in 2019! [C laughs]

C: Yeah. The top review mentions that liked seeing the contrast between soulless Sam and soulled Sam so close together within the episode, and I agree with that. [G laughing] You're still stuck on "People don't break out of prison by unlocking the door?" [G laughs] [G: Yeah.] It's really good.

G: [laughing] I just think "Why would an unlocked cell look like a breakout?" [both laughing] is so funny!

C: I mean- Okay. I think it's like, he threatened her- or she unlocked the door to come in, and then he- I don't know.

G: [laughing] No, but she's already tied up! How did she get there? I don't know. I don't know. Well, "The episode is okay. I love the run in with the law thing they had in the beginning seasons, but it gets old." You're gonna hate Season 7.

C: Oh, because of the Leviathans?

G: Yeah. This one compares it to Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, Sam being who he is.

C: Okay. I haven't read it, so.

G: Yeah, I know about the horrible BBC modernized version of it that was directed by the same person who made-

C: Steven Moffat?

G: Yeah, because it was in the video about how Sherlock is horrible.

C: So true. Most important video in the world.

G: Yeah. [laughs] I do think it's an incredibly funny video. I watched it last year, and I think I told you immediately after watching it that I watched it because it was important.

C: Yeah, I've only seen it once, but it remains a very fond part of my memory.

G: Okay, I think that’s it for this episode of Busty Asian Beauties. Next week, we will be discussing Season 6, Episode 14. Can you take a fucking guess what this episode title is?

C: I'm so scared. What? Is this the Titanic one?

G: No.

C: It's not "The French Mistake," is it?

G: Oh my god! We're nearing "The French Mistake"!

C: I can't believe that happened in this season. Like, be fucking for real.

G: When is "The French Mistake"? When is "The French Mistake"?

C: Oh, don't tell me! I want it to be a surprise!

G: Well, next week's episode is "Mannequin 3: The Reckoning." [both laugh]

C: No!

G: Leave us a rating or a review wherever you get your podcasts.

C: Follow us on social media! We are on Tumblr at bustyasianbeautiespod.tumblr.com. And- uh, what else?

G: Check out our merch.

C: Thanks to everybody- Oh, yeah yeah. And our tag is #BABPod, B-A-B-POD. [G: Hell yeah.] Thanks to everyone who's donated to our Ko-Fi at ko-fi.com/bustyasianbeautiespod, and check out our merch at babpod.redbubble.com.

G: You can email us any feedback, comments, or inquiries at bustyasianbeautiespod@gmail.com. See you guys next time! [both] Bye!

[guitar music]

[bustyasianbeautiespod]

Episode 116 Transcript: You’re Just a Baby in a Trenchie

[intro guitar music]

G: Hello, it's Grey.

C: Hello, it's Crystal.

G: And this is Busty Asian Beauties, a Supernatural commentary podcast where I, someone who has seen this show several times...

C: And I, someone who only knows the show through social media, discuss every single episode of Supernatural from start to finish. Also, we are both Asian.

G: Both Asian! For today's episode, we are gonna be discussing Season 6, Episode 12: "Like a Virgin," written by Adam Glass, directed by Philip Sgriccia. Hi, Phil!

C: Completely unserious episode. [G laughs]

G: There was a lot of zooms this episode. I was tricked into thinking this was by Robert Singer, and it's literally not. But it was-

C: He was in drag. Phil Sgriccia was in drag.

G: Literally. And I found it so- honestly, I was like, "Wow, for the first time, the zooms don't feel like they're too extra. They just feel just right." [C laughs] They're well-timed. The zoom in to Sam's face after Cas tells him that he's been walking around with no soul, I was like, "Wow, they really were able to accentuate Jared Padalecki’s acting skills, good for them." And it literally wasn't Robert Singer.

C: Yeah, no he never learned.

G: Thanks, Phil.

C: Thanks, Phil.

G: Yeah, this one aired in February 4, 2011, which is so long because the last one was in December 14. Do you remember?

C: Oh, yeah. So that's why they had a “Road So Far,” I suppose.

C: Yeah, this is the- they're back after the mid-season hiatus. The whole point is to introduce the plot of the second half, basically. And they did do that! They very much did.

C: I just- okay. It's an episode that is meant to be very, I think, emotionally serious, given that it's the “Sam comes back” episode. Why did they pair it with a stupid-ass case, and then spend five minutes of a pretty short episode on “What if Dean was talking to a professor from porn instead of a real one?” [both laugh] And what was all of this? What was all of this? There were good stuff. I was very happy to see Sam again. [G: Very happy.] [laughing] But the use of time was not good. [G laughs]

G: God, I feel so called out. This prof literally is like a professor from pornography. [C laughing] But I love her!

C: God. [laughing] I could not, [G laughing] because of how she was a professor from porn. Pornography.

G: I was both fascinated by and irritated by the fact that they implied that something was up with her and Bobby.

C: Yeah. As if. [laughs]

G: Yeah, first, I was irritated because I'm like, “Oh, fuck off.” But I was also fascinated because I'm like, “What is-” like, Bobby's living the bisexual dream. He's literally having terrible situationships with everyone! And good for him.

C: That's true. The fact that she hates him is quite fun.

G: Yeah. I love that she hates him, Rufus hates him, it's so important.

C: Yeah, exactly.

G: Yeah. Love is love. I have been saying that so much recently, and it's true. Love is love.

C: [laughs] Uh-huh. I agree.

G: What did you know about this episode before going into it?

C: Like, truly nothing, but by the time the second girl gets attacked on screen, I was like, “Oh, wait! This is the dragon episode with dragons who are literally just a man.” [both laugh] So that's all I knew.

G: Yeah, I did not- Prior to watching it for real, I knew a shocking little about this episode. I didn't even know that when Sam comes back, he doesn't remember, initially. I thought the “Cas is alive, too?” is from somewhere else. Where could it possibly be from else?

C: Cas dies so much. Probably... Season 12, it could have happened, right? Cas gets stabbed, Sam gets kidnapped by BMOL.

G: Yeah, I suppose so, yeah. What if in Season 12, [laughs] there is a scene where Sam goes, “Cas is alive, too?” and there's just two of them. There's just two of these scenes.

C: Maybe so.

G: This one has the iconic Sam praying for Cas. Love that scene. I had to slow it the fuck down for an AMV once, [C laughs] and it's been embedded in my head since then. [C: Excellent.] Yeah. And of course, the dragon who is literally just some guy. [C laughs] It's kind of wild. I missed Sam so much.

C: No, same!

G: When they were just doing the case, I was like, “Ah! And Sam's doing a case!”

C: For real.

G: I know that you didn't like the case aspect of it. I mean, I just- I’ve said this over and over again. I love case eps, and this one, it's straddling the line, but it is pretty solidly, I think, in the case ep camp, and I love that. I love a case episode, and I love even more so that Sam is back, doing a case episode. I love Supernatural! Who'd have thunk?

C: I like Sam Winchester and Castiel.

G: Yeah. Sastiel is so real.

C: No, Sastiel’s the realest thing in the entire world this episode. [both laugh] Cas don’t give a fuck about Dean, also. Destiel's super unreal, [G laughs] and Sastiel's super real this episode.

G: Yeah, okay. Well, let's start. We have a very long “Road So Far,” and the song is like, it just repeats, “We're back in the saddle” or whatever throughout the song or something.

C: And they are.

G: And they are back in the fucking saddle. And I don't know. It's just a recap of Season 6. There's nothing creative about it, do you feel like?

C: Yeah, no, I felt pretty disappointed.

G: Yeah, because usually, they do have a theme going on, or something that they repeat and makes you go, “Oh my god, so true!” or whatever. Or just an incredibly funny line-to-lyric situation. But here, it's just whatever.

C: Was there a monster that you- There was a monster I didn't recognize in it.

G: Which one?

C: The big eyes CGI whatever thing? I forgot where that was from.

G: I truly don't know what you're talking about.

C: Okay, yeah. It was a creature. It looked sort of aquatic, it had really big eyes, and it looks very CGI'd.

G: Where did we get a CGI monster in Season 6?

C: I feel like what it was is that it was probably a person most of the episode, and there was a brief moment when its true form was revealed, and I just don't remember what monster that was.

G: Yeah. And I was sniffing, and you were glugging water or something [C laughing] when it happened.

C: Yeah, yeah, I think that is true.

G: Okay, well, we start the episode.

C: I guess the only thing to say about the “Road So Far” is that I think, as has been misused in the past, the Lisa “I need you to go. You're a hunter.” line is used again, and it makes it seem like that's why she broke up with him in the “Road So Far,” and it's not. They were literally having a normal conversation about balancing life in that scene. But oh, well. Sorry, Lisa.

G: What's fascinating is like, I feel like Dean has started to rewrite in his mind the way that relationship fell apart, also. We haven't really heard him talk about it a lot, but I don't know. I'm just excited to see how he does talk about it when he does because, I mean, we're gonna erase those memories soon. So like, [both laugh] we're never gonna see them again.

C: That's crazy that he did that. Dean hasn't even seen them- By that point. Dean hasn't seen them for over half the season. They probably already forgot him! [both laugh]

G: Yes, very easy thing to forget. [C: Yeah.]

-

G: We start the episode with a good old-fashioned cold open. Like, literally unrelated to- It's not unrelated, but it's not related to the plot. It's just fuck-all. So important. It also looks very bad! [laughs]

C: No, the CGI plane is not good.

G: No, because before watching this episode, Crystal told me, “Hey, there's a plane crash this episode” because I've been having weird whatever anxieties about planes. Very valid, if I must say. I don't think that's an inflated reaction. I think that's literally normal. But I was like, "Oh, there's gonna be a plane crash. Okay, I’ll consider that." [laughing] And then I saw this, [C laughing] and I was like, "It's so far-"

C: "In no world would this upset me, because it looks so stupid"?

G: "This is so far beyond the realm of reality that I'm like, 'It's not happening!'" [C: Real.] And yeah, so it's this super tiny- what is the difference between a plane and a helicopter?

C: I don't know.

G: I don't think this is a helicopter. Because it doesn't have the rotation on the top.

C: Yeah, yeah, I think a plane has the big wings on the sides and the helicopter has the spinny thing on top. Propeller. [laughs]

G: Yeah, and this has the wings on the side, so this is a very tiny plane. So small. Think of the smallest plane you can think of. It's smaller than that. This is crazy small. And it's a two-seater, fully. The pilot is just some guy. [both laugh] It's not like he's a pilot or anything. He's just like a hobbyist plane flyer. And the passenger is this girl. Later, they say she's 22, right? [C: Yeah.] And so yeah, they're a young adult couple. She is terrified because the boyfriend made her go to this flight. They didn't expect that there's going to be so much weather. I don't know. Hijinks happens. She's like, “Oh my god! There's a giant fucking thing flying beside us,” and the guy's like, “No, that's just birds!” [laughs] And then he told her, “Just close your eyes,” and then she did, and then a giant fucking thing gets the boyfriend out of the plane, fully out of the plane, but the plane's still flying. The windshield is gone, and the plane has not changed directions at all? [laughs]

C: It's just a little windy now.

G: Her hair is just being swept by the wind. Anyway, that's the end of it. We don't see her get taken, but don't worry. She does.

C: Yeah, we just hear it scream and fall a bit.

-

C: So we cut to Bobby’s, and Sam’s soul has been put back in, but he's still not awake. And Dean's standing outside anxiously.

G: Well, we open the door, and it's Cas going out. Or are you just about to say that? I'm sorry.

C: Yeah, I'm about to say that.

G: So important.

C: It is very important that we open the door and Cas comes out.

G: And is rolling down his sleeves.

C: Yeah, you have used this in a certain AMV that I think we've truly never mentioned and definitely don't mention several times per episode. [G laughs] [G: Literally.] But that is what makes them good in bed. [G: Literally.] So he's been giving Sam a checkup, and his soul is there. And Dean's like, “Well, is he gonna wake up?” And Cas is like, “I'm fucking pissed at you. Probably not. He's probably dead forever. Have fun, Dean.” And specifically, he tells Dean, “I warned you not to put that thing back inside him.” And Dean's like, “Well, he was dangerous walking around without a soul,” and Cas-

G: And Cas recommends that he should have just killed him, then. [laughs] [C: Yes.] I mean, he doesn't say it like that.

C: Well, he says that Sam's soul felt like it had been skinned alive, and he's really angry. I feel like we haven't seen Cas be so-

G: He does the menacing walk towards- you know, the-

C: Yeah. [G: Yeah.] When was the last time we've seen him this angry?

G: "I have given- Two of my brothers died this week," blah blah blah. [C: Yeah.] What's the line for that? "Two of my brothers died this week. I gave you everything for nothing. [C laughs] So keep your opinions to yourself." It has the same vibe as that. [C: Yeah, because-] He's also menacingly walking towards Dean. Of course, the other time we see him angry is when he literally beat Dean up in an alley, but yeah.

C: Yeah. Hell yeah, baby. [both laugh]

G: Literally. Do you remember that episode? You were like, "We don't know how to talk about this." [both laugh] And we literally didn't. [C laughing]

C: Yeah. And we didn't. [G laughs] And yeah, and he says, “If you wanted to kill your brother, you should have done it outright.” [G: Yeah.] A real slay. A real slay of a line, I must say.

G: Yeah, and the way that- I feel like Cas is the only one on Sam's side! [C: Yeah.] The way he's so angry here on Sam's behalf, and the way he's so happy later, it's just so nice. [C: It is.] It's so wonderful that he literally hated this guy and left his soul on the fucking Cage-

C: Not on purpose!

G: - And also he didn't answer his prayers for a year, but you know. The prayer thing was on purpose.

C: Out of guilt! [G laughs] Yeah, out of guilt and being very busy. That is probably part of the anger. The guilt.

G: No, yeah. But we can't reveal that yet.

C: Yeah, but I'd like to believe it's just because he wuvs Sam!

G: I mean, I'm sure he feels a thing for Sam. [C laughs]

C: No, no, I agree. I do think that he loves Sam, and that Sam is his family or getting there. But yeah, I think guilt-

G: I don't think Sam is his family! [laughs]

C: Is he not yet?

G: You thinks he looks at Sam and he's like, “Sam, you're my family”? [laughing] Even saying it, that's so weird! [C laughs] [laughing] Is this so mean? I'm trying to say that-

C: Okay, I think maybe post-Godstiel and all of that, I think it is like closer to when that is true.

G: Okay. When do you think Cas starts thinking of Sam and Dean as family? [C: I think-] Well, first of all, I just wanna say, personally, I find the whole thing ridiculous that you have to put the label “family” to someone who's not family to make it valid that, like, they're important to you. I feel like it's one of those-

C: What if they're secretly half-brothers?

G: [laughs] That's a reference to The Kite Runner-

C: Yeah, spoilers.

G: - which is a good book. It's a good book. Oh, yeah, we can't say that!

C: It's not a reference to The Kite Runner. [both laugh]

G: It's literally not. Who wrote- Khaled Hosseini, right? So check it out. Or maybe not. I don't know. We don't know. We don't know anything about it. We've never said anything about it or spoiled it.

C: Yeah, I don't know. Warnings for like, three different child rapes, I guess, if you do read it.

G: I just feel like the whole idea of "We need to say that we're family," it's like they're trying to say that "Family is not the most important thing, and the way we say that is to just assign the other people family." [C: Uh-huh.] So you know, it's still giving primacy to the concept. So first of all, I just want to say that. And then my second thing I want to say is, [laughs] when'd Cas start thinking Sam and Dean as his family?

C: I think before Season 9, so that the being kicked out was such a shock.

G: Interesting question. I don't think so! He was literally gonna lock himself up in Heaven.

C: In when?

G: In Season 8! At the end of Season 8.

C: I mean, that sounds like something anyone would do. [both laugh]

G: Yeah, so true.

C: I also didn't know that.

G: Oh, I'm so sorry!

C: No, it's cool. I have no clue what the context is, so.

G: He's gonna close the heavenly gates and Metatron tricks him, and there was a cut scene where he was supposed to enter a room, and there's naked pictures of Dean in there.

C: Oh, yeah! I think just shirtless.

G: So true. Just like Cas in Season 12.

C: So true. In another deleted scene. Well, when do you think Cas started thinking of them as his family?

G: I think having to choose Dean over Heaven in Season 9 was it.

C: Didn't he also do that in Season 8 in "Goodbye, Stranger" in a way?

G: Yeah, but that one was like too gay, you know? [C laughs] That one was like-

C: Okay. And this was "When did he start thinking of both of them as his family?" so-

G: Yeah, not just Dean. I feel like Season 8 was just Dean, and then Season 9 was like, Sam's also there. Etc.

C: Okay. But doesn't Dean already think of Cas as his family at this point, though, in some way?

G: I think he says in Season 6- I think Dean thinks of Cas as- I suppose- [laughing] The way we're using "family" so nebulously is hilarious.

C: We're using it in the way that [G: Supernatural-] the text we're discussing uses it. I just feel like "The Man Who Would Be King-"

G: Season 6, he will say "You're like a brother to me" or something.

C: Is that in Season 6?

G: No, okay. In Season 6, he goes, "I've lost Lisa and Ben, and now I've lost Sam. Don't make me lose you, too."

C: When did he lose Sam?

G: [laughing] I don't even know.

C: Isn't he so back? Isn't he so back?

G: [laughing] I think it's when Cas takes off the fucking wall.

C: So that's Season 7, then?

G: It's Season 6!

C: When he's begging Cas to be normo? That's fair.

G: At the end of episode 20, which is "The Man Who Would Be King," he tells Cas, "Don't make me lose you, too." And Cas goes, "I can't." And then Dean's like, "Okay, then I'll do whatever I can to stop you." And Cas goes like, "Well, I'm just an-" like- "You're just a man. I'm an angel." [C: Hot.] Literally. I can't wait.

C: Yeah. I think the one I was thinking about was when Dean told Sam, "If this was literally anybody else but Cas, I would have mistrusted and tried to kill him already."

G: No, yeah. [fake-sobs] [C laughs] Yeah, wonderful. "It's Cas!" That's what he said to Bobby.

C: Augh! Whatever, maybe Destiel can be a little bit real.

G: But the thing is like, that's not the Team Free Will as family. That's just Dean and Cas-

C: No, it's just Dean and Cas being a little bit gay.

G: Sam the entire time was like, "No, Dean. He's betraying us." You know?

C: Yeah, yeah, that's true. That's true. Cas doesn't love Sam or view him as his family, I suppose.

G: I think Bobby- I vehemently believe this. Bobby needs to die first [C: Ah.] before Cas replaces him as family.

C: Gets promoted.

G: Yeah, yeah. [laughs] They need to fire Bobby first.

C: Yeah. Yeah, so true.

G: So right now, they're just still gaying it up.

C: But yeah, anyway, the line "If you wanted to kill your brother, you should have done it outright." I mean, I like it because I think, correct. Dean did want Sam to die previously. A good time.

Dean and Bobby drank a little bit and wait for Sam to wake up.

G: Yeah. Bobby says, "Just 'cause it kills your liver doesn't mean it ain't medicine," and you know what? It's true.

C: Sure. [both laugh]

G: I'm not promoting alcoholism. I'm just saying a lot of medicine kills your liver! It's a true fact!

C: That's true. That's true. So yeah, Bobby mentions the plane crash we saw in the cold open as a potential case, which Dean wants to take on as a distraction. He hears from behind him Sam saying, "Dean." And it's Sam and he's back!!

G: I'm so happy.

C: It's Sam! Oh my god. Yeah, I know the whole time soulless Sam was on screen, we were like, "We love him. We think he's so funny." I don't give a fuck about soulless Sam anymore. Hi! I missed real Sam.

G: Literally. Later, when he finds out, and then he stops himself from confronting Dean there and then, I was like, "Saaaam!"

C: That's Sam!

G: Yeah, because if he was soulless, he would have just done it, you know?

C: Yeah or not done it and tried to kill him. [laughs]

G: Yeah, but the fact that that is him trying to be like, the emotional sensitivity of "I can't burden Dean with this before we finish the case." [C: Yeah.] I don't know. The thing is that, I think I said when soulless Sam was happening that "Sam should have just been, you know, like this. He should have been like this towards Dean the whole time," blah blah blah. But the reality of the situation is Sam is a thoughtful person, and he's so caring, and I don't know, you know? I think it poses such an interesting question of like, what makes a person themself? And soulless Sam was Sam, but I don't know. The way Sam words it later, it's very fascinating. I was deeply fascinated by it. And also, I missed him tremendously.

C: Yeah, yeah. I saw him doing his little facial expressions, and it did make me almost tear up.

G: Yeah. [laughs] Can you believe that Supernatural is a TV show that we like?

C: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't really believe that other part. [both laugh] But it is a TV show.

G: That's true.

C: Yeah. And Dean stands up in shock, and then Sam goes over to him and hugs him soo tightly. And it's meant to be a very deliberate departure from their 6.01 hug where Sam's like, "Okay!"

G: Yeah. And Dean was the one doing the emo thing. Dean is actually primarily just shocked.

C: Sam sees Bobby, and he's so happy to see this man who loves him like a coworker who tried to kill him.

G: Literally!

C: He hugs him, and then he goes, "Wait. I felt Lucifer snap your neck." And Bobby goes, "Well, Cas, he-" and Sam goes, "[both] Cas is alive?" and he's so happy about it! He's so surprised and so happy about it.

G: Yeah, it's not just a passing remark. They linger on it, and I'm so happy that they do. [C: Yeah, yeah.] I'm thinking of the last conversation that they must have had at this point was Sam telling Cas, "Take care of Dean and Bobby!"

C: And Cas going, "Can't do it. But okay."

G: "So you want me to be- you want me to lie?" He's so iconic.

C: He's soo iconic.

G: I suppose I didn't really think of Cas and Sam as friends in Season 5, not particularly, but-

C: Cas warns Anna to stay away from Sam and not hurt him in a very intense way.

G: Yeah. But like, do they have bonding moments? Do they ever bond? [laughs]

C: Probably not profoundly, but-

G: So true! And Cas did explicitly say this. But it's nice to know that Sam seems very fond of him, even still. That's his buddy.

C: He's his buddy. He says that he's starving, so yeah.

G: Which supports my theory that soulless Sam didn't need to eat.

C: Yeah, he might have done it less often.

G: It could have been also just that he was asleep for like, [laughs] god knows how fucking long.

C: Yeah, that's true.

G: So it could be anything. It doesn't support nor deny anything. Unfortunate. [C: Yeah.] He's gouging on the sandwich. Bobby and Dean are trying to whittle out what Sam remembers, and we get flashbacks of "Swan Song" to tell us that Sam is being for real. [laughs] He's not lying about the fact that this is what he remembers. And all he remembers is going into the pit and then waking up a couple of minutes ago. And Bobby is trying to press. He is trying to press, but Dean keeps on stopping him. Apparently, it's been a year and a half. So it's been half a year since the beginning of the season. So how long do you think has it been since Lisa and Ben?

C: Huh, okay.

G: Like 3 months?

C: Wait, okay. The last time that they talked in any way was in "You Can't Handle the Truth," which was 6.06? [G: Okay.] So yeah. But also, I feel like the hiatus is- No, no, it doesn't actually mean anything. So yeah, three months.

G: Yeah, anyway, Sam asked, "Was it Cas? Dean goes, "Nuh-uh!" And Sam starts accusing Dean of having done it and Dean goes, "Me and Death-"

C: Having done a deal or something.

G: Yeah. "Me and Death-" and Sam's like, "Death? The horseman?" But Dean is like, "No, it's over. Slate's wiped. It's fine. Don't worry about it." Sam asks pointedly if there's anything else he needs to know, and Dean just goes, "No." Hell yeah. Love lying.

C: Yeah. And Bobby's not enjoying any of this.

G: I was wondering what Dean's game plan is. 'Cause Bobby points it out, right? "What are you trying- He's gonna find it out. At some point, he's gonna figure it out, or somebody's gonna tell him." And he did both. Good for him. He's so smart.

C: He's just trying to have a nice week. I think that's really it. [laughs]

G: Yeah. I suppose it's not- To be fair to Dean, I never considered that maybe the reason why he's hiding it from Sam is because he knows Sam will be guilty. [C: Mm.] I don't even know what I thought he was hiding it to Sam for.

C: To prevent the wall from coming down, I think, is what he says explicitly.

G: Okay, you're right. That one. But I thought it was just like a- I don't know. Like a power trip thing.

C: [laughs] Oh, really?

G: Yeah, but, you know, like, "Oh, this is a situation I have control over." [C: Huh.] And he must have felt so powerless with soulless Sam because of how soulless Sam acted and felt and etc. And so there must be a part of him that is vying for that control back, and that's how I felt about a lot of what he was doing this episode, like, I don't know. I mean, yeah, it is so that the wall doesn't crumble, fall to dust, and disappear. But yeah. That's the thing. I'm like, "It's not for Dean. It's not Dean's call to make," but also, I suppose it kind of is. I don't know. I don't know. But I never- I don't know. Maybe this is just lacking on my part, but I never really considered that part of the equation would be "Sam's gonna feel so bad." [C: Yeah.] Yeah. Even though I explicitly mentioned that as one of the ways Dean can guilt soulless Sam into doing better, by telling him, "When you get your soul back, you're gonna feel so horrible." [C: Yeah, yeah.] Yeah, don't worry. He'll still feel horrible.

C: Sure will. I think I read it as, you know, not wanting the memories to come down. I don't think I was thinking about the Sam being guilty thing that much, either. I think what I was thinking was more just that, those siz months were horrible, and Dean also wants to forget that they happened. [G: That's true.] He's just so happy to have his brother back that he wants it to be as smooth as possible, and as easy to forget the six months as possible.

G: Yeah, but my perspective was like, "That's not his call to make!"

C: Yeah, I agree.

G: But you know, etc.

C: I'm glad Cas told him. And also- I don't know. We can get to it when we get to it, but Cas tells him in a way that implies that Cas never thought that Dean would keep it from him, which I feel like if you know Dean, [laughs] is not a super valid assumption to make.

G: Yeah. I love that entire scene. It's so wonderful. It's good Sam character work. It's good Cas character work. I just love it.

-

G: Yeah, anyway, right now, where we are is Bobby's- what is it? Hemming and hawing? That's what people say, right?

C: People say that.

G: It's hem and haw? What a weird combination of words! Yeah. But he is doing such weird combination of things. He's fixing up his car. And the funny thing is, at the beginning of this conversation, he is speaking at a normal voice. The conversation is going, "What are we doing? Why don't we just tell him? Is this the right thing to do? He tried to kill me. I just have to forgive that? What's that about?" And literally, my thought was like, "Yeah, you have to. Fuck off, Bobby."

C: No, literally.

G: Like, stop being so stuck up! Shut up!

C: Also, Bobby's been possessed by a demon and tried to kill Dean. [G: Yeah.] I feel like all of them, have at some point, their bodies have tried to kill the other one.

G: Yeah. I did just say that Dean should tell Sam, but right now, I'm completely on Dean's side. Shut the fuck up, Bobby. [C: Mm.] What's funny is Dean just goes, "Okay, Bobby, one day. But can we just leave it alone for now?" And Bobby goes, "Okay, fine." And then he turns around semi-defeatedly, but he starts talking so loudly, [laughs] and I just was thinking, like, "Is he trying to get Sam to hear?" He's like, "Okay, fine, Dean." And then he turns toward the direction of where Sam is like, "But you know, if Sam finds out, [C laughs] he's gonna realize this, Dean!" and it's so hilarious. I think so fucking funny.

C: Pretty funny.

G: Bobby said, "What if he hears it from someone, specifically me during this conversation, where I'm shouting every word?" [C laughs]

Bobby and Dean are now underway to the case. You know, earlier this case, they do a Buddy Holly joke. Or not a joke, but they do a Buddy Holly reference. And I was like, "I know what that's about!" [laughs] Anyway, that's not a laughing matter. I just was amused that I finally figured out something that Dean is saying without having to look it up. [C: Hell yeah.] But they're supposed to go. But then Sam shows up and he's like, "Wait, no, I wanna come!" And Dean goes, "Okay, okay, the three of us, then." But Bobby, very- Bobby's not a good actor. He's like, "Um, yeah, I'm so sorry. I need to talk to Rufus or whatever. I don't know." [C laughs]

C: Yeah. "I told him I'd work the phones for him, meaning have phone sex with him. So, bye!"

G: He is so awkward. He's smiling the weird Bobby smile that he does. [C laughs] [laughs] Sorry for calling Bobby's smile "the weird smile that he does," but you know what I mean. And Sam starts going, "What's that about? Why is he so weird?" But Dean just denies that this is happening.

C: A lot of music this episode. A song starts playing on the car radio. I don't recognize it. Apparently, it's Jethro Tull's "A New Day Yesterday," though. Appropriate.

G: What other songs are there?

C: Well, okay, the cold- Okay, I think it was mostly thinking about the- I'm sorry. The "Road So Far" song. And then there's a lot of use of music for comedic effect [G: Oh, yeah, the-] when Dean's talking to the porn professor.

G: Stop calling her the porn professor!

C: Alright, sorry.

G: Her name's Dr. Visyak, or whatever. I forgot.

C: When Dean's talking to Dr. Visyak. [G: Yeah.] So Sam's on the phone. He's talking to some kind of police officer [G: Yeah.] about two disappearances in town.

G: And he goes, "So get this." [screams]

C: He does! He does go, "So get this," and I did start clapping and cheering.

G: Yeah. And I for some reason miss the "It's night, and Sam's calling some fuck-all guy." I missed it! I feel like we haven't seen it a long time, and it's so important to call someone and then go, "So get this" afterwards.

C: So there were two girls who vanished from places where you would not expect them to, and they had no connection to each other. And then Sam starts asking Dean about the year away, and he says, in a slightly teasing, slightly admonishing way, "[both] So you never even tried to go live a life after I died. You do remember that you promised that, right?" Dean's very tense about the whole situation. And he asks, "What makes you think I didn't?" And Sam says, "Because look at you. [both] You're exactly the same." So true. Love it.

G: I love that line. I just- I don't know. I thought it was so charming.

C: And then Dean says that he was with Lisa and Ben for a year, but that it didn't work out. They arrive at the house of Penny, the girl who died in the cold open, and they're talking to her sister, and they make a big deal this episode to be like-

G: Of her room.

C: - and Sam's going to lead all of the interrogations in a way where he makes really sympathetic eyes at everybody and says things like, "I understand." way more than Sam usually does on cases when he has a soul, just to really drive home the difference between soulless Sam and souled Sam.

G: I think it got a little bit- What's so funny is they only do this thing with Sam where he becomes super empathetic when he's about to fuck that woman, you know? [both laugh] They did it with Madison, and they did it with Sarah. And like that's literally it. They did it with "Hook Man" girl. And that's literally it. The "Hook Man" thing was still wild. Why were they doing all that? [C laughs]

C: I don't know. I don't know. And Jess didn't really come up at all that episode, did she? [both laugh] Or I guess she did. I think he talked about her before kissing that girl. Is that real?

G: I don't remember anything about that episode anymore, [laughs] just that we gave Sam five points [both laughing] back when our point system was just completely different.

C: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, her sister doesn't want to talk, but Sam makes sympathetic faces at her until she's like, "Okay. I guess you're so nice that I will talk to you."

G: [laughing] He's just like, "Pwease! Pwease let us talk to you!" and it works. Good for him.

C: They go to her room, which is-

G: And I point out the pointing out the room because, as you remember, Phil Sgriccia is also the guy who is known for the disco room, or whatever that was. [C: Yes.] But this time, the room is relevant. They make a point of pointing out-

C: It's not. I mean, the picture maybe is. The rest is not. Only Dean thinks it's relevant.

G: No, literally. What a wild- Okay, let's continue first.

C: Yeah, so they go to her room, and it's painted pink, I think, and there's a bunch of stuffed animals, and there's a framed photo next to the bed of the guy flying the plane. Just him.

G: So weird.

C: Yeah. Supernatural- remember when Kate Milligan had a framed photo-

G: Yes. And it was the photo that falls right before she gets killed. [laughs]

C: Yeah, yeah. But that one, she was in it, too, right? It was her and John.

G: Yeah, her and John and- wait, no.

C: So I think that's more normal. Yeah, I don't think Adam was there. Having both of you, I think that's fine. Having just that guy, why? [laughs]

G: Yeah. Is he a father that died when you were really young? [both laugh] What's that about?

C: No, literally. Her sister is saying that she was very shy and not adventurous, but she loved Stan so much that she was willing to go on this plane with him. She's very sad. She says, "I just wish I told her to stay home. We don't even have a body to bury."

G: Which, that did make me sad.

C: And I was like, "Okay, so there will be mirrors?" But there were no mirrors this episode [G laughs] because it's a deeply unserious case.

G: No, literally.

-

G: So now we go to Sam and Dean. They're in the usual setup of motel room. What he has found is that all of these girls that have gone missing "bake cookies for the Lord" is how he puts it, so they're very like church choir-y, blah blah blah, promise ring clubs. At first, Dean asked, "Oh, is it a prayer thing?" But Sam says, "No, Penny wasn't Christian, but she just had a promise ring."

C: I don't think she had a promise ring.

G: Ah, they found out that she's a virgin because of the diary that Dean steals.

C: Yeah. And also, she has stuffed animals in her room! [laughs]

G: No, okay. So Dean says that he has a theory, which is that- And then he pulls out a notebook that is black- They should have made it pink if they're gonna stick with the theme. Come on, guys. Sam slightly admonishes him for stealing it from the room. And I did find it a little bit charming when Dean goes, "Oh, I love that you even asked me that." Aw, yeah!

C: Yeah, it is a him missing old Sam thing, it's fun.

G: And Sam goes like, "Why wouldn't I?" because he doesn't know anything. And so Dean just goes, "So all these girlnappings," he calls, "it's not about religion. It's about purity." because he thinks they're all virgins. And Sam has this whole bit where he was like, "That's impossible! [C laughs] She's 22!"

C: Yeah, well.

G: Hilarious.

C: Hilarious.

G: Yeah. What a wild thing. I feel like- I don't know. I don't know. I'm not American. We have a different disposition. But even- I don't know. Are people like- I don't know. I don't know.

C: I recall that in college I feel like most people weren't virgins, but I don't know if that most was like, 51 or like, 85, you know what I mean? I don't know where it was at.

G: I think most people in my life are virgins, but I also, for some reason, only befriend people who have never dated in their life. [laughs] So like, who knows? Yeah. And their argument for why she's a virgin is she has a pink room. Well, Dean's argument for why she's a virgin is because she has a pink room, which I have! Stuffed teddy bears- don't have, unfortunately.

C: I do, and I'm a virgin, so I guess Dean's right.

G: No, but I have the pink room and no stuffed animals, and I'm not a virgin, so like, it's-

C: It's true. I have the stuffed teddy bears, but I don't have a pink room.

G: We don't have the full combo, so we'll never know.

C: No, you're right.

G: His like blazing gun is that he opens a diary and there's a line about how Penny is gonna give her "most precious gift" to Stan. [C laughs] And he reads the phrase, and Sam's like, "That's so fucking weird and creepy." And Dean goes, "I think I delivered it," which that line- like this entire scene. I was mildly uncomfortable. But when Dean goes, "I think I delivered it," I was like, "Okay, well, that's a bit funny." Do you think that's true or not true? Do you disagree? What are your thoughts. [both laughing]

C: I don't think it's that deep.

G: I think it was funny!

C: I have no thoughts on anything ever.

G: Yeah. Sam's like, "Okay, so now, we need to find a monster that wants virgins."

C: Yeah. And Dean mentions twice this episode, "Being a virgin is bad because they're bad at sex."

G: They're corny, tired, and played out.

-

C: So we are now at some high school or college that is Catholic. And so there's this woman or girl, and she's walking, and then we hear wingbeats, not in an angel way. And then monster POV towards her face as she gets attacked. And she wakes up in the hospital, and Sam and Dean go over to interview her. And she says that she was attacked by something that looks like a giant bat, and Sam's very like, "I believe you. I don't think you're crazy," etc. And she's kind of scratched up, and she says that she passed out after it attacked her.

G: I did love the look of the large scratches on her back. I think they do their makeup well.

C: Yeah, agreed. She says that something else that happened is that it stole her gold purity ring. And Dean is like, "I need to test a theory." [both laughs] [G: Yeah.] And he goes, "Melissa, look. Nobody is judging anybody here, okay?"

G: You know what? It never even crossed my mind that like it didn't take her because she's not a virgin. [laughs] [C: Yeah, same.] I was amazed at Dean's quick thinking.

C: Yeah. Also, how does it know? From a distance, it thought she was a virgin, and then from up close, it could tell she wasn't? How?

G: The logistics of how this works, of course, whatever, who even knows? [C: Yeah.] I think also just the idea that- I don't know. Dean is so- I don't know. A lot of things are going through my head in this scene. [both laugh] [C: Yeah.] I cannot word any single one of them.

C: Okay. Do you wanna try?

G: [laughs] No. The way he tries to wheedle it out of her-

C: No, it's- Yeah. He tries to make her feel like shit. That's how he does it. [G: Yeah.] He goes, "Yeah, nobody is judging anybody here, okay, believe me. But should you really be wearing that ring?"

G: No, that is a wild thing to ask that question.

C: Yeah. In what way would she be like, "This is pertinent to the discussion at hand."

G: Yeah. And like, I think that's one of the things with Supernatural, they would ask all of these invasive questions, posing as FBI agents, [C laughs] and they'll like reveal anything. And they have this steadfast rule of "We should never tell anyone about anything supernatural," and it's making all of these people's lives worse. Imagine if- 'cause what I interpret, if I was Melissa, right, how I would interpret this is "It attacked me because I was lying about being a virgin." [C: Yeah.] And how fucking traumatizing!

C: No, yeah. And also, everyone can tell that I'm not a virgin, and this guy was sent by God to guilt me about it.

G: And from how she reacts to it, she already feels bad that she's not. [C: Yeah.] So I don't know. What a wild combination of things to be said and done.

C: But yeah, she eventually says that there's some guy that she slept with once.

And they exit the hospital, and we hear Sam say, "So what? You think Batman tried to rape her?" And then we hear Dean say, "Well, he does carry a lot of rage." And I just think it's- I think that it's an off-color joke, and that in this episode where they make such a point to be like, "Sam is different now. He's very sensitive now. He's a cool, nice guy again," the fact that he says this and then Dean says this, and Sam doesn't comment on it at all is a fascinating look into the mind of Adam Glass.

G: No, this is what I was trying to say with the homophobia in- whatever the fuck that episode is.

C: Uh, "Clap Your Hands If You Believe."

G: Yeah, with "Clap Your Hands If You Believe," it's like, "Oh, Sam is like whatever he doesn't care. He doesn't care." But for this specific thing, homophobia transcends a person's soullessness. And here, it's "Jokes like this transcend soul versus soullessness." [C: Yeah.] And it's fascinating, as I've said, what is defined as "just how people are." And here, he is already supposed to have the moral compass or whatever, the filter, and it's still the same. It's like a little bit wild. And also, I did not even connect the dots of what was happening here instantly. Because the scene before it there is a girl, looking at the screen, teary-eyed, going, "Matt Barne didn't count." And then cut to Sam going, "So what? You think Batman raped her?"

C: So you thought Matt Barne raped her, and that was what made her quote-unquote "not a virgin"?

G: Yeah. I mean, I couldn't figure it out immediately. [C: It's tough.] And I don't know. It's just like a weird thing- And obviously, that's not- that's me, comprehension-wise. That's on my side. But like, I don't know. I was like, "Oh, okay, what a weird joke! What a weird thing to say, and a weird way to put it." and etc, etc.

C: Yeah, yeah, indeed. But yeah, Dean says that "And then it didn't take her because she was already dehymenated," which I don't like as a "How did he figure it out."

G: Yeah. And then Dean makes a comment about how "See? Having fun, it's all upsides!" Fuck off, Dean.

C: Yeah, fuck off, Dean. And they're like, "Well, I don't know who this is." Dean makes a P. Diddy joke. Did he rape somebody? Or what was his deal?

G: You don't know?

C: I remember something is up with P. Diddy. I don't know what.

G: Well, he is very in trouble with the law regarding-

C: Ah. I'm seeing sex trafficking. That's no good.

G: Yeah. And it's revealed recently the full extent of it. But apparently, in 2011, people are already making jokes that he's like that.

C: Though Sam says it's comforting that "Even after I died for a year and came back, you're still not funny."

G: [British] Not funnay. You didn't say it the correct way! [C: Sorry.] There's only one correct way to say "Not funnay."

C: Sorry. "You're still not funnay."

G: Yeah. And Dean goes, "Shut up. I'm hilarious." And they get into the car in a supposed to be like, "haha!" way. I don't know. [both laugh] I did go, "haha!" a little bit, so maybe it worked.

-

G: They're back in their motel. Sam's Googling, Sam's Googling. And I had the thought, like, "Sam must have figured out that he was back because he had a laptop. Why is his laptop still there? He has a laptop?" [laughs]

C: Why not?

G: You know what I mean- You think Dean kept his laptop the entire time?

C: Why wouldn't he?

G: Well, it's just that there must have been tabs open in that thing. There must have been new files. Did he not download a single file in one and a half years?

C: Maybe Sam's like, "Dean's been using my laptop" [G: Oh, that's true.] because in the past, Dean didn't even have his own, right? There was only Sam's laptop.

G: That's true. You know what? The World of Warcraft website that they showed-

C: I thought it was Busty Asian Beauties.

G: I thought it was Busty Asian Beauties. I thought, honestly, what I thought was gonna happen was, they're going to make a gag about "I can't believe it, Dean! You were watching porn on my laptop!"

C: "While I was dead, you used my laptop to jack off."

G: Literally. Because he starts the scene going, "This can't be possible!" And I literally was like, "There's a virus. It's gonna kill his laptop forever." [C laughs] [C: Yeah.] But what he's saying is, when he googles fire, claws, flying, stealing virgins, and gold, all that comes up is World of Warcraft fansites.

C: The only place where dragons are ever mentioned on the Internet.

G: Yeah. Where else are dragons mentioned? I'm sure DnD or something.

C: Most mythology? Not most. A lot of mythology.

G: All cultures, yeah.

C: All cultures. [laughs] I mean, European, the one that exists a lot, and Chinese, the one that exists a lot in my life. So all my cultures. [both laugh]

G: Yeah, so true. Aren't they called something else? Oh, no! Like, in Chinese? Is it also "dragon"?

C: You mean the word "dragon" in Chinese? [laughs]

G: Yeah? [laughs]

C: Dragons are called the word in Chinese for "dragon" in Chinese, I think. [both laughing]

G: No, [laughing is it like a dumple/dumpling situation?

C: [laughing] What?

G: [laughing] I was like, maybe it's a dumple/dumpling situation. Nobody knows that joke.

C: So true. I'm sure we already explained it once. At some point in a podcast, Will Wood says, "It's so great that the Chinese called dumplings 'dumplings' because they really look like that." But "dumplings" is not the word for dumplings in Chinese.

G: [laughing] I think you know what I was trying to ask.

C: What?

G: There's like a difference- [laughing]

C: There's a word for-

G: Mythologically, there's a different-

C: Yeah, yeah, there's no virgin stealing and gold. I mean, maybe there's some gold. But yeah, no, they they do have different behaviors. [both laugh]

G: Yeah. No, but like, there's dragon, and then there's something else.

C: Yeah, I think people- Well, people say Western dragon and Eastern dragon sometimes [G: Do they really?] to differentiate them because they have different default looks and behaviors.

G: Maybe I'm thinking like, dinosaurs. [both laugh] Okay, well, whatevs. Sam is trying to be like, "I don't know if it's a dragon! We don't know. We don't know. Is it a dragon? We don't know." And so Dean calls Bobby, and Bobby says the most fascinating thing in the world.

C: Bobby's cooking.

G: He's cooking.

C: And not on the grill.

G: Yeah, they make a point of showing him cooking, and there's a point where he's sitting down and Dean calls again or Sam calls or something, and he's like not touching his food, too. He's just looking at it. And I was like, "Is this a parallel to the pie?" Do you remember the pie?

C: Yeah, of course, I remember the pie. I think what it was, because the spoon was sticking out of his food, and I think he tried to move it, and it was kind of stuck. I think it was like the phone call made him cook it bad, so the texture is off now or something?

G: So true, so true. Could never happen to me. Dean asks, "What do you know about dragons?" And Bobby says the most fascinating thing. "Dragons? They're not like the Loch Ness monster! Dragons aren't real!" Love it. [C: Love it.] Yeah. And Dean is like, "No, but can you please just look it up? Pwease, pwease, pwease?" And Bobby goes, "Okay." And then he asks, "Okay, so how's Memento doing over there? Has he been caught in any lies yet?"

C: "Have you been caught in any lies to him yet?"

G: [laughs] So true. "He caught you in any lies yet?" is what he actually says. And Dean goes, "Well, whatever. Everything's fine. Sam says hi. Bye!" He hangs up. Sam starts getting even more suspicious, and he's like, "What's that about?" Whatever, he's also looking through the pages. And Dean is saying, "Hey, there's not any dragons there because we've read that thing to hell and back, and there's no dragons." But as Sam is flipping through the pages, he's like, "Did we hunt something recently?" And Dean's like, "I don't know. I don't know what you're talking about." And he's starting to experience deja vu. And Dean does look like he's about to start getting worried because obviously, he doesn't want that wall scratched.

C: I think Dean definitionally gaslights Sam by being like, "Remember, your brain's still crazy right now!" [laughs]

G: Yeah. So Bobby gives Dean a call back, and he says, "I can't believe she didn't jump right to my mind. Dr. Visyak. Medieval Studies, SFU." And Dean's like, "Okay, let's go!"

C: Yeah, I don't understand why he drove all the way to San Francisco without calling her first.

G: Well, I don't know. Sometimes, people don't pick up. [both laugh]

C: Fair enough.

G: Sam didn't go because he said that he is going to study the lore more because dragons are in caves or something and start to figure stuff out. I do wonder why they didn't-

C: He's trying to figure out the lair location.

G: - why he didn't just bring Sam there.

C: To SFU? [G: Yeah.] Yeah, I don't think he should be left alone. Or I feel like I would be too worried to leave him alone.

G: That is the Watsonian perspective. I'm thinking more like, obviously, it's so that he can call Cas. But he can just step out for a bit and call Cas outside, you know? It doesn't necessarily mean that he has to be left behind. My ideas are-

C: I don't think he would step out if Dean was there.

G: No, you know, maybe he's like- I don't know. He can, is what I'm saying.

C: "Me and Cas need to talk in private."

G: Yeah, but he doesn't have to stay behind. And my ideas are, I don't think they want him trying the sword.

C: Mm. Interesting.

G: Yeah, I don't think they can reconcile Sam, when he they just got him back, and he's fully soulled up, and his whole bit is he's a good person, and he's so pure of heart, whatever. I don't think they can reconcile having him not pull it out of the stone. And so they left him. [C: Yeah.] Sam gets Thor's hammer, I think, at some point, and people make a fuss about it, but I don't really remember much about it. [C: Hm.] So I don't know. Love Sam or something. I don't know. [both laugh]

C: Yeah. I feel like Professor Visyak was being kind of facetious about the "you can pull it out if you're a hero that's brave of heart." [G: Yeah.] I don't think it actually had that property to it.

G: No, I think it did. I think it did. And love is love.

C: Okay, it did, and they were trying to make a point that Dean sucks while goofy music was playing? [both laugh]

G: Yeah. And I just don't think they can do that shit with Sam. They can't goof it up with Sam trying to pull that thing out.

C: I think if Sam tried it first only briefly, and then Dean was like, "Step aside. I got this," and then he fell, I feel like that would have worked.

G: I also think Jensen Ackles is just better at comedic acting than Jared. [C: Sure.] So they were like, "Let's play up to Jensen's strengths." Jensen Ackles's strengths.

-

C: There's a scene where the dragon is- he's in the sewers, and there's this grate under which a bunch of girls that he's kidnapped are there, and they're not having a good time. Their clothes are torn, they're crying, they're bloody, etc. And then he's bringing in a new girl, who's, you know, screaming and saying, "Please let me go," etc. He breaks her arm and then shoves her in there, and Penny from the beginning tries to comfort her.

G: Yeah. And there's a whole bit about how his hand [C: Yeah.] really heats the fuck up, and it melts the gate, which does make you wonder, how the fuck did Sam and Dean open that thing up? Did they?

C: We didn't see it, but I assume they did or called someone who could, eventually.

G: That's probably true. Yeah.

C: Yeah. But yeah, so yeah, he uses his very hot hand to weld together the grate so that it's impossible for anyone to escape because at the beginning of the scene, Penny is trying to get the top open.

G: Can I just say, supernatural does not mean magic. Those are different ideas. Do you understand what I mean? It just looks- Obviously, dragon who's just some guy is already goofy as fuck, [C laughs] but having him have magic warming hands [laughs] is so like, what is this?

C: Well, I'm just disappointed that they were like, "Making him breathe fire like a dragon is dumb! [G: It's too much.] He just needs to have super hot hands."

G: [laughs] Literally.

C: It's silly.

So we go to Dr. Visyak's. It's her house, [G: Yeah.] but when Dean buzzes, she's like, "It's not office hours yet." Does she hold office hours in her home? In her personal home?

G: I mean, she obviously has a collection.

C: Yeah, I suppose.

G: I'm assuming she shows people around, yeah.

C: Yeah, I don't know. I feel like there should be rules around that.

G: Office hours Monday and Friday, two times a week, is probably fine. And also, we don't know-

C: Yeah, I just think she should have an office.

G: What kind of doctor is she? Bobby explicitly says [both] medieval studies. I don't know. Maybe she's retired, and she's just hanging out. [laughs]

C: Why does she have office hours if she's retired?

G: Well, sometimes, somebody wants to consult you as an expert, not necessarily as an academic superior.

C: I feel like they wouldn't be like "This is a professor at this university... but she's retired. [G: So true.] And by office hours, she means fellow professionals who come by." [laughs] [G: So true.] Yeah, Dean says that Bobby sent him, and then Dr. Visyak opens the door, and the point of her is that she's hot. [both laugh]

G: Well, she is hot.

C: Yeah, but she stands and talks in a way that feels unnatural because the point of her is to be hot.

G: Yeah, I did feel a little bit- [laughs] Now I'm embarrassed to say. 'Cause most people in Supernatural- I was actually wondering-

C: It's nice that she's a MILF. Dean's historically not that into milves. Is that your point? [laughs]

G: No, no, no. What I'm trying to say is, I was actually thinking a lot about what I was seeing in this scene because [C laughs] she's a very attractive woman, obviously. And I kept on thinking, "What's that about?" [laughs]

C: What do you mean?

G: What I mean is, there are rarely people in Supernatural who are generally my type, and so when I saw her, I was thinking, "Do I find her really attractive because out of all the people in Supernatural, this is like the closest to what I would think as attractive in real life, or is the show trying to do it on purpose?" And I couldn't figure it out. Literally couldn't figure it out. So it is fascinating to hear you just straight up go like, "They're trying to do like a porn professor fantasy."

C: Yeah, [laughs] that is her entire thing.

G: So yeah. Who would have thunk? Not me. I didn't think it.

C: Yeah, well, okay, she's wearing a very- a very low-cut top-

G: She's not showing cleavage or anything.

C: She is!

G: Was she?

C: She is.

G: I think she just had beautiful hair. [laughs]

C: Yeah. She's also wearing a very deep V-neck dress.

G: That's not true!

C: Yeah, it is.

G: It was purple. I know that. Wait, let's look it up.

C: I'm pretty sure it was blue, but it could be a situation where it's purplish-blue, and we just categorize the colors differently.

G: There is a possibility that it's fully blue.

C: Is it?

C: Wait, let's look it up. Supernatural. [typing]

C: I feel like it was fully blue, if you asked me. But maybe I'm wrong.

G: I think it is blue.

C: Fully?

G: Sowwy. Sowwy. Sowwy!

C: And would you say that it was a deep V-neck and that she was showing cleavage?

G: Wait, I'm looking. It's not loading. Wait. Come on!

C: It's fully blue, and she's showing a little bit of cleavage.

G: I don't think she's showing a lot! Do you really think she's like a porn professor? I think she's just a normal, very good-looking woman.

C: Okay. When she shows up, there's a musical sting, and Dean looks her up and down. [G: That's true.] And then the rest of the scene, she keeps standing, even though she doesn't need to, and cocking her hip, and saying things about how "Oh, and I had to sleep with this person in order to get this artifact."

G: Did she say that? [laughs]

C: Yes!

G: I think she just said it took twenty years of hard work.

C: Including very mediocre sex with a certain person! Look at the line.

G: Did she literally say that?

C: Yes! [laughs]

G: Oh, okay, she does- she is showing cleavage. But that doesn't mean anything!

C: She's showing cleavage. She says, "Finding it took two decades, countless hours, and some really bad sex with an Eastern European ambassador." It does mean things [laughs] because they made deliberate costumes choices, and most people don't wear dresses on Supernatural. Most women wear the T-shirt and jeans combo.

G: Yeah, but I thought it was just they're trying to show a different kind of person. They don't usually have professors in Supernatural.

C: They don't, yeah. I don't think that a blue dress showing cleavage is a classic professor look. [both laugh]

G: Okay, yeah, I completely missed the sex part. I just thought she was saying it took her two decades.

C: Yeah. She was like, "It's me. Oh my god. I slept with Bobby. Oh my god, I slept with this guy as part of my job. [G: That is true.] Having sex with men is a part of my profession as me, Dr. Visyak."

G: That is true. Yeah. [laughs] [C: Okay.] 'Cause I was trying to figure out why I am [laughing] so attracted to her. [C laughing] I actually looked up the actor-

C: I mean, I think she's also closer to your type [G laughs] in terms of- as a person that she looks like. But I also think they framing her in a certain way very deliberately and obviously.

G: I actually was like, "Maybe she's from somewhere. That's why I'm recognizing her. That's why I'm so into her." I look it up, she's from nowhere that I know. [laughs] So like, who knows?

C: Yeah. I mean, she's not a very good actress, unless I mean, if she was told to just be a porn professor, then I guess she's doing a good job.

G: No no no. Because the way they- I don't want to spoil things. [C: What?] But the way they show her, they show her with like a lot of like, "Pay attention. Pay attention," you know what I mean? And so I thought it was one of those things where they have somebody from a previous TV show that was a hit [C: Oh, yeah.] with the demographic of Supernatural show up, and, you know, do a cameo. [C: Mm-hm.] Like, they've done that [C: Yeah.] several times. So I was like, "Maybe this is one of those." And then I looked it up, and it literally wasn't, I don't think. [C laughs] [C: No.] So she's just someone who's there, [C: Yeah.] and apparently, I have been tricked by Supernatural. [both laugh] I am their target.

C: [laughing] So thoroughly that you weren't even aware that you were being tricked.

G: To be fair, I was like, "It is a little bit weird that I'm this affected [both laugh] by somebody in Supernatural, and there must be something up in it."

C: I mean, you're into older women. You probably just chalked it up to that.

G: This is true.

C: Dean comes in, and she's like, "Bobby Singer. Tell him something for me the next time you see him. Actually, just kick him in the nuts. That's more poetic." And she says that they used to fuck, basically, but that's his story to tell. And Dean says that there are dragons, and she's like, "Oh my god, don't joke about that. They've been gone for 700 years, and they're scary!" And the only way you can kill one is by using a blade. And when she says "blade," Dean looks down at his crotch. [laughs]

G: Eugh! Is that true?

C: Yes. Because he's got a boner [G laughs] from his hot porn professor fantasy. And then he asks, "What kind of blade?"

G: Is that all true?

C: Yes! [laughs] Go rewatch that scene!

G: [laughing] Why is this completely gone from my memory? [both laughing]

C: I don't know! Okay, I'll rewatch it to make sure I'm not misrepresenting.

G: That's crazy. I don't think I ever saw Dean a single time this week. [laughs]

C: Yeah, no, he does. Anyway, so-

G: No!

C: The time stamp is at 23:35 if you want to see it. If it seems like I'm misrepresenting it, you can check there.

You need a blade that's forged with dragon's blood, so that's gonna be hard to make now. [G: Yeah.] And she says there's only five or six around in the world, and Dean goes, "You know a lot about this stuff."

G: Which is such a weird thing to say!

C: Yeah, like, she's a professor of medieval studies that Bobby directed you towards because of her expertise regarding dragons. And instead of saying, "This is because I am a professor, and I went to school for six years for this, and then taught it for a long time," she goes, "Well, of course I do, because I have one." Dumb as fuck. So she takes him down to her basement and says that finding it took two decades, countless hours, and some really bad sex with an Eastern European ambassador. And it's there, and it's a sword that she has embedded in a boulder. It's the Sword of Brunswick, and Dean asks how to get it out, and she says that you need "a brave knight who's willing to step up and kill the beast." And Dean's like, "Yeah! I'm gonna impress this hot woman!" so-

G: I don't think he's trying to impress the hot woman! [laughs] I think he's just trying to be like- I-

C: He makes a face.

G: Is that the whole bit of this episode?

C: Yeah. [both laugh]

G: [laughing] That's kinda crazy.

C: Okay, if somebody messages us, and is like, "I watched it, and I didn't see it at all, and Crystal's crazy," I will accept that.

G: I mean, there's gotta be a middle point between us.

C: Well, we'll see. We'll see.

G: Yeah. Or maybe there isn't.

C: Or maybe there isn't. And he goes over to it, and they start playing this epic heroic music for comedic effect.

G: Yeah, and the lighting changes a bit.

C: Yeah. And he pulls and pulls, it doesn't work, and he straight up falls off the boulder.

G: And they do another one. I just said that Jensen Ackles is good at comedy acting. It's not funnay.

C: It's not. Yeah, he fails again. And he's like, "Well, I got another idea, but you're not gonna like it." And the another idea is dynamite. Yeah. [G: Love that.] I don't think she even moves the other artifacts out of her special artifact room.

G: No, really. There's so many paintings there.

C: Yeah. He sets up a bunch of explosives around the boulder. She is not happy about it. And Dean's like you have to trust me because I learned how to blow things up from Bobby!And yeah, so he does it, and they blow up the boulder and Dean triumphantly pulls the sword out, but a part of it has broken off because of the explosion, and she is not happy about this, but we never see her again, so.

-

G: We go to Sam. He is pinning things on the wall. He's like really, really investigating the hell out of this. He also has a whole situation with a map. It's really fun. [C: Yeah.] We get to see the map more later. I am thoroughly impressed that they have access to this! They have access to the sewage map of the city? [C: I guess.] Where?

C: Um, hall of public records, maybe?

G: That's pretty cool. As he's figuring stuff out, he goes to call Bobby, but Bobby, first and foremost, asks, "Where is Dean?" And Sam's like, "No, I'm not with him, whatever. I'm trying to figure stuff out." Basically, they establish that maybe it's not the cave. Maybe it's something akin to a cave like a subway line, but there's no subway lines. Maybe it's the sewers. Sam's like, "Oh my god. Thanks, Bobby." And then he goes, "Hey, Bobby, are you okay? Because something's wrong. You have been acting so weird and off-putting. What's that about?" And Bobby is like, "No, it has nothing to do with you, you know. It's been a year and a half, so whatever." And he hangs up on Sam. Sam's not done, and he hangs up. And Sam, now a little bit distressed that this is all happening, goes and sits down, and he goes- He closes his eyes and he goes, "Castiel? I'm back! So if you've got a minute," and then, he opens his eyes. Cas is not there. So he turns around to check if Cas is maybe behind him, and the camera follows him so that part of the what's in front of him is obscured. And then, when he turns back around to the front, the camera follows him, and we see that it's Cas. [C: Ah!] And he's there, and he's looking at Sam so- like he's so relieved to see Sam there. [C: Mm-hm.] He just goes, "It's so good to see you alive." And Sam goes, "Yeah, you, too." And  at this point, he's standing up. Sam's standing up. [C: Yeah.] And Cas, very enthusiastically, and also very awkwardly, because he is Castiel, waddles over to Sam [C laughs] with his arms out! Have we even seen Cas hug anyone?

C: No.

G: It's so important. [C: It is.] It's so important.

C: It's so very important.

G: He waddles to Sam, arms out, and then Sam literally just sits down. [C laughs] Literally, he was like, "Let's sit down." And I appreciate that Sam doesn't just breeze past this. [C: Yeah.] They verbally acknowledge it. Sam goes like, "I would hug you. It's just- eugh." [both laugh] And Cas goes, "Yeah, it'll be weird and off-putting." [C: Aww!] They're so important.

C: They're so, so, so important.

G: Yeah. What is the first hug that Cas has? Is it literally Purgatory?

C: I think so.

G: Crazy.

C: Crazy.

G: What is the first Sastiel hug? Season 9?

C: Isn't Purgatory a Destiel hug?

G: No, yeah. But when's the first Sastiel hug? Season 9?

C: Oh, Sastiel hug. Oh my god. I should know this. I don't know.

G: I think it is the one when Cas stays behind to care for Sam after the whole Gadreel possession thing. [C: Mm.] And then they hug, and Sam was like, "Wow, love you!" And then he taps Cas's face a couple of times.

C: Aww!

G: Do you remember this? They're in front of a bowl.

C: Yeah. The "Hugs" SuperWiki says that- Well, I guess honey!Cas hugs both of them [G: Oh, yeah.] together, [both] but that doesn't really count.

G: He goes, "I love you guys."

C: The first Sam and Cas one is in 9.11, "First Born," so you're correct. He does pat him on the side of the face.

G: So imports, yeah.

C: Aw! So imports.

G: Thus establishing what I said that Season 9 is when they become family, but only after the everything.

Sam starts vaguely talking about things. He goes, "You know, crazy year. I called Bobby. He told me everything." And Cas is like, "Yeah, I know. I'm surprised that you survived! I was begging Deana not to do it."

C: [laughs] So fucking funny for Sam to hear at this moment. [both laughing] Cas said, "I hate your ass, and I wanted you to be in Hell forever."

G: Sam's like, "No, yeah, no, no, I get it. I understand. I get it." [C laughs] And Cas goes, "You know, it's a miracle it didn't kill you." And Sam's like, "Yeah, no, it is a miracle." [both laugh] And Cas says, "How does it feel?" And Sam's like, "What?" And Cas goes, "Well, to have your soul back, of course." And we linger on Sam's face, and we do the zoom-in on him, and it is a very strikingly good-acted scene. You see tears start welling up on Sam's eyes. Oh! Love him! [C: Love him.] And he's like, "Oh, yeah, yeah, because I was walking around with no soul, right, yeah." And he asks, "I'm just fuzzy on the details. Can you tell me things? Can you walk me through it?"

C: Yeah. And we don't see any of it!

G: Do you Cas never suspects? He's never like, "Mm, I don't think he knows, actually." [C laughs]

C: I don't know. Cas is distracted. There's a lot going on in his life.

G: [laughs] Literally.

C: Well, Sam says, "Bobby told me everything," which implies that Sam himself doesn't remember. So Cas can just be like, "Oh, Bobby might have like [both] skipped over a few of the details," etc.

-

C: Sam and Dean are both in the motel room now. Dean's returned with the sword, and, you know, Sam's deliberately trying to be chill and not mention anything about what he just learned. And Sam points Dean towards the sewers. They're gonna use the sword. And yeah, there's a moment where Sam seems like he wants to say something to Dean, but then he doesn't. Inside the sewers, they're about to give up, and then Sam sees a big old pile of gold. [G: Love it.] So they're going in the right direction. Then they notice that there's this altar with a book on it. [G: Yeah.] They hear Penny call out from a few feet away, so they go over to get her and everybody else, but before they do that, Dean grabs a handful of the gold and stuffs it in his pocket. The dragon returns, and there's a fight scene.

G: I love the fight scene.

C: What is the dragon's voice? He has a certain voice, but I don't know what it is.

G: What you mean is he has an accent, and I don't know what the accent is.

C: Yeah, yeah.

G: Apparently, you shouldn't say "voice" for accent. [laughs] [C: Oh, okay.] Just like me when I asked- but this is different. I once asked a British friend if she was putting on a voice. But that's different. That's like, really rude. [both laugh]

C: Yeah, perhaps so. Yeah, the dragon has an accent. I don't know the origin.

G: I also don't know.

C: I hated this fight scene.

G: I think what they're trying to go for is 'cause he's really fucking old. They kind of established that. I don't know. Maybe they're trying to go for an old accent.

C: An Old English accent? Maybe.

G: It could also literally just be something that we don't know, and I'm so sorry for calling these people ancient. [C laughs]

C: Yeah, I mean, Supernatural just doesn't really do accents very often. So I feel like [G: When they do-] it is deliberate in some way. And I feel like if it was supposed to be from an existing nation, they would have mentioned it as part of the lore. So yeah, I don't know. Might not be true.

So okay, the fight scene, you know, Dean slashes with the sword a bit, and then the dragon kicks it out of his hand, and it falls underneath into the grates. And I was like, "Okay, so like one of the girls down there can reach it and assist in the fight," but that is not true.

G: No, no, no, it's a different grate! It's a different-

C: No, I know. I know it's a different grate. But I think that if it is to fall, that's the point. Because this entire fight scene, right? Sam and Dean are just grunting masculinely. But to really keep the tension up, there's an entire chorus of virgin girls underneath, going, "Ah! Ah!" the entire fucking time. [both laugh] [G: No, literally.] And I hate it! It's so annoying! First, to not have them be involved in any way besides being like a crowd of victims down there with their like female vulnerability, [G laughs] and then to use them for this sound effect the entire time, I just feel like, is especially irritating.

G: I don't think we really got into the whole virgins thing. [C: Yeah.] Let's get into it now. It is severely off-putting. [C: Mm-hm.] Because these are all generally young girls. [C: Yeah.] Or not young girls. Young women. And I don't know, it's just like- And their entire purpose is to go, "No!" And it's incredibly-

C: "Ow! I'm scared!"

G: Yeah. This end of this episode just involves two men manhandling girls who are screaming. And it is like, what are we doing? [C: Yeah.] And because it's Supernatural, it doesn't feel like they're trying to do something or say something or whatever. It's just like, unless it's a special occasion, the purpose of a woman in a hunt is to be the victim that is screaming, or the victim that is being saved. Yeah. As we have said many, many times, there are things in Supernatural that are egregious specifically because they're in the context of Supernatural, the TV show that is always egregious. So, you know.

C: Yeah, yeah. I feel this is pretty bad on its own as well, not even being in Supernatural.

G: No, that is true. But I did love this fucking falling on the grate scene, because Dean can't reach it, and then Sam does, and he very easily can, because he has longer arms.

C: Hell yeah. There's also a second dragon that shows up?

G: [laughs] It's so funny, because when he shows up I thought the dragon changed faces, and I was like, "Well, at least the dragon can change faces. That's cool." [both laugh] No, it's literally a second dragon.

C: Yeah. And he stabs one of them, and then the other one escapes. And then we immediately cut- but apparently, both of them are alive after this.

G: No!

C: No?

G: That's a different dragon! [laughs]

C: Oh! But there are two at the end, and you're telling me that one of them was the one that escaped, and one of them was a completely different dragon?

G: That is true, yes.

C: Okay, good to know. [laughs] Because at first,  when it showed them, I was like, "Oh my god! They're inside Purgatory. Why do they have trucks in Purgatory?" [both laughing] because I thought they were both dead.

G: [laughing] In Purgatory, just me and my truck and my buddy.

C: [laughing] If the Impala can be in Heaven, I don't know why trucks can't be in Purgatory. [both laugh] Maybe he really loves that truck!

G: He literally, literally love that truck. But that's not what happens. The random dragon is just killed, and then this old dragon has a dragon friend who has a different van of girls.

C: Yeah, and we don't know what the other ones are for. I mean, Sam implies earlier that the dragons rape them. But like, why are they in vans, and why are they being transported?

G: They need to be sacrificed for Lilith?

C: Oh, okay. For Lilith? For Eve?

G: Oh, for Eve, yeah.

C: Oh, yeah, I guess we just didn't see that. We only see the one who gets possessed. But yeah, you're right, that is probably the intention.

G: That is so fucked up! Sorry, I completely forgot that this is not Lilith, this is Eve. [C: Yeah.] Isn't the point of Lilith already that like, she ran off to be with the demons, and so Eve also ran off to be with the monsters? What's the situation?

C: I really don't know what Eve's backstory is here, 'cause again, we see Adam and Serafina later.

G: Literally. That's the thing. We see Adam, and he's normo-schnormo.

C: He's normo-schnormo, and he has his hot angel girlfriend who's also normal, but also a stoner.

G: Yeah. It's weird that they were like, "And Adam's gonna be a hipster." [laughs] What's that about?

C: Yeah. And Eve is the mother of all monsters? It's just a strange thing.

G: Yeah, well, I completely forgot. This entire time, I've been thinking, "Oh, here comes Lilith!" [C: No.] Anyway, what I mean is, I'm not forgetting that there is already- What I mean is like, I thought this was Lilith- I don't know. Obviously, I remember Lilith. I don't know what I'm trying to say. I'm just being like, I forgot, but I remember. Don't worry about it. [C: Yeah.]

-

G: Now we are in the- what the fuck is this place called? I always forget. [C: Scrap-] Salvage yard. [C: Salvage yard.] The salvage yard, where cars go to die. Dean is playing with all of the gold that they have, and they have a lot of it. [C laughs] What is the joke with the "ask me what time it it is"?

C: He's just playing with a gold watch.

G: No, no, no, I know, but what is the punchline to that, if Sam goes, "What time is it?" What would he say?

C: Oh, what would Dean's joke be [laughs] if Sam actually- [G: Yeah.] I don't know. "It's time for me to have a bunch of gold. Yay, I have a bunch of gold." I'm sure that's what it was.

G: Yeah, maybe he's gonna say, "It's golden time!" [C: Sure.] Something super fucking corny because he is not funny.

C: It's not. It's 15.03. Or is it 15.03? No, I think it's a different 15.

G: I think it's 15.03. No, it's not. [C: It is?] That's "The Rapture." Or "The Rupture." I think "Golden Time" is 15.06.

C: Okay, a multiple of three.

G: Yeah. It's the one where Cas is in a cabin solving murders. [C: Love it.] And Dean calls him and is like, "Oh, I hate you!" I forgot what their call was.

C: It's very tense, and Cas seemingly wipes away a tear at the end.

G: Oh! It's the one where Cas is like, "You call my supervisor." And Dean, as the supervisor, was like, "Oh, let me talk to my agent." And he's like, "Wow! And you're not even gonna come back? What's wrong with you or something?" I don't know. They were having some marital difficulties.

C: God, I love it.

G: Or do you?

C: I think I do. [laughs]

G: Do you think you're back to being a Destiel shipper, or do you think you would ever be?

C: Well, okay, again, whether or not I like it [G laughs] doesn't change the fact that it's real. [laughs]

G: Yeah. But would you like it ever again, do you think?

G: I think the way I would like it is in the "I love drama" way, and not in the-

G: "They're in wuv" way?

C: - really invested in this relationship way, you know?

G: I think that is also generally my disposition, but I can also be completely lying to myself.

C: There was a time, I think, [laughs] when you really did wuv it.

G: No, no, no, definitely. And I think there could be a time in the future.

C: Oh, you're saying now?

G: Yeah, now, I'm not sure if I'm truly invested in that way, or I'm just a "It's something that is happening for real!" that is fun to talk about. And it is both of those things, maybe. I don't know. [C: Indeed.] Well, we don't get to hear Dean's super corny joke, because Sam is like- No, he makes a joke about how Dean should just roll in the gold and Dean's like, "Oh, come on!" But then Sam finally does cut to the chase and goes, "Dean, I am so sorry. I can't even begin to say how sorry I am." And Dean starts tensing up, and he's like, "For what?" And Dean goes, "You know what." And Dean asks, "Did Bobby-" And Sam goes, "No, it was Cas!" And Dean whispers to himself, "Oh, Cas! That frickin' child!"

C: Not nice. [laughs] Not nice or true.

G: Yeah, he pulls this- [C: He does this-] He will tell Cas later, "You're a fucking child."

C: What does he even mean here? That Cas is naive?

G: Yes. 'Cause the argument he does later about this is "Just because you could have something doesn't mean you should!" [C: Okay.] when he was trying to get every power ever.

C: Yeah, I don't really understand what is childish about Cas telling Sam about the soulless months, though.

G: I think just not having the awareness to think that Sam- that Cas- whatever whatever. I do think there is a chance for Dean to think that Cas did it on purpose, like he wasn't tricked into doing it. 'Cause their last conversation sure implies that Cas is mad at Dean-

C: That's true. So he did it out of spite.

G: - and he could have spitefully done it. So maybe it's not naivety. It's like [C: Pettiness?], "What a petty fucking guy." Yeah. Oh my god! I forgot that this season is also "You're just a baby in a trenchie." [both laughing] He doesn't say "trenchie," but he should have.

C: Yeah, and he has a headyachey on his poddycasty.

G: Literally. Yeah, anyway, Dean says, "You weren't supposed to know."

C: Well, Sam says, "You should have told me, Dean."

G: Dean says, "You're not supposed to know." And Sam argues that well, he should have, because he did that to Bobby and everything. He should know. Dean argues that "You can't scratch the wall because it might kill you for real." And Sam says, "Okay, but I want to set things right."

C: "I have to set things right."

G: Oh, yeah. And Dean says, "It wasn't you." And Sam says what he feels like is that he woke up and the whole city is burnt down, "And you can say it wasn't me, but I'm the one with the Zippo in my pocket, you know?" which is something that happens when Meg possessed him. [C: Mm.] That is like how the- I don't know. I do think, why does Sam not have the memory like?

C: Of when he was soulless?

G: Yeah, how does that follow with the logic that we have been presented of what souls are and what bodies are and what memories are?

C: Right. Soulless Sam had his memories and was able to retain new memories-

G: And so like, what is that about? And I feel like, is it because of the wall? [C: Maybe.] Like, yeah. It probably is because of the wall. And he says, "I appreciate you trying to protect me, but I got to fix what I got to fix. I need to know what I did." And something about this just really struck me because this was the moment where I was like, "Okay!" I missed Sam, and now he's back. Because this is so quintessentially him in a way that I can't even- I don't know how to word it. There was a scene that we really loved, both of us, where, when he was soulless, Sam said that he remembers what he felt like before, and it was more difficult, yes, but there is something worth going back to there. And here, we see that, and we see what he must think was worth going back to. And I was like, "Aw, Sam." [C: Yeah.] I mean, it's difficult, and obviously, this is a difficult one, and it's guilt, and it's regret, and it's fear of what that means, what it means to be the person who did that, even if it wasn't technically, but it also technically is, so what is that about? and all that. But it is also the ability to make right, the desire to make things correct and to fix what is broken. And like, isn't that what Sam is about? [C: Yeah.] I love him! And I missed him so much.

C: I love him. Yeah. And his last memory being "Swan Song," [G: Yeah.] I think, also adds to this because he spent a lot of Season 5 being like, "I opened up the Cage. I let Lucifer out. That was me, and I need to make things right," and him sacrificing himself in "Swan Song" was that already. And then he wakes up. It feels like he hasn't- It feels like he's done his penance, maybe, and he's like, chill for a bit. And then he realizes this, and I feel like it's very easy for him to go back to what he was thinking in Season 5 because that just happened for him.

G: Yeah. Sam!

C: Yeah. Yeah. I do wuv him, and he is looking up with his big, shiny eyes and saying that he needs to enact justice.

G: His hair looks different, his face looks different. Maybe Jared Padalecki is a good actor. [laughs]

C: Yeah, maybe he is. [laughs]

G: Yeah. Oh my god! But anyway, Dean is saying that it's dangerous, it's dangerous. Sam says, "You would do it if you were me." But then they get cut off, and Bobby calls them inside to talk about something.

C: We don't even get a Bobby-Sam apology scene.

G: No, literally, I was waiting for it.

C: Yeah, I was waiting for it.

G: But who give a fuck? Sorry. [laughs]

C: I would rather that than the goofy-ass sword-pulling stuff, [G laughs] if you had to use time in certain ways.

G: I mean, allegedly, you do have to use time. [C: Yeah.]

-

C: So in Bobby's living room- So they took that book at the altar from earlier, and that's what Bobby's been analyzing. And it's a really obscure Latinate and made out of human skin. And it describes this place that is basically Purgatory. And as he talks about it, it's like a voiceover because we're also seeing- I think that's why I thought it was Purgatory. Because I see the dragons rolling up in a truck while Bobby's talking about a place called Purgatory. One might assume that the place they are is Purgatory. [laughs]

G: Okay, first of all, what I want to point out here is, does Bobby know about the whole [both] Crowley situation?

C: I'd assume they'd filled him in.

G: But the way he says, "You may have heard of it. Purgatory." [laughs] [C: No, that's true.] I was like, "Wait, what the fuck is that?" Is he being tongue-in-cheek about it? Or is he straight up like "You may have heard about it."

C: I think he's being tongue-in-cheek about it.

G: I fully was like, "You know, Purgatory." I really was like, "Does he know?" I don't know. I don't know if he did.

C: Yeah. So the book gives instructions on how to open up the door to Purgatory in order to let something out into Earth. And we see two dragons performing a ritual. One of them has a truckload of virgins, and they'd take one out, and you'll never guess what she's wearing.

G: White nightgown, baby!

C: Classic.

G: Literally classic.

C: Yeah. And yeah, they take her out and bring her to the side of this cliff while she's screaming and kicking and crying about it, and they recite something, I think, in Latin, or maybe an obscure Latinate, and then they ungag her and then throw her below where there's a big pit of fire. And then Bobby says the thing that they're trying to let out is called [both] Mother. Mother of all. And the girl rises out of the pit, and she's different now. She's possessed by something. Her eyes are glowing, her legs are burning, etc, and the dragons welcome her, and she says, "You kept me waiting. We have so much to do. Let's get started." [G: Yeah.] So that's the episode, yeah. I know later, Eve takes on Mary's form, which I think is fun, but right now, it's young girl- or young woman in a nightgown, which I guess is also pretty Mary-esque. [G: Yeah.] Good for her. Episode.

G: End of ep. What did you think about it? Loved it. We are so back.

C: I liked parts of it. I disliked other parts of it. I think that this is an episode that I think- The situation that they are in is one where they could have made it an episode of all time, sort of "When the Levee Breaks" level of emotional resonance thing, and they didn't, so I think I'm a little disappointed in that. But it's not a terrible episode.

G: Yeah. Best Line/Worst Line.

C: I liked Sam's conversation with Dean at the end. I think I liked the "Alright, but I have to set things right, or what I can, anyway," because that's the beginning of the whole Sam of it all.

G: Yeah. I think I really like when Sam is eating that fucking sandwich, and then he's like, "Did Cas bring me back?" And Dean's like, "No," and then he straightens up his back, and then he goes, "Dean." [both laugh] I love that line. I just thought it was so amusing and so importies. Yeah. [C: Yeah.] What's your worst life? My worst line is the sex with the Eastern European blah blah blah, which I completely missed and completely- I just completely missed. Yeah, I just completely missed it. But now I know about it, and I hate it.

C: Yeah, yeah. My worst line is the Batman rape joke, [G: That's true!] both Sam saying it and Dean saying, "You know, he's got a lot of rage," which I think we didn't really talk about. What a fucked up thing to say! [both laugh] [G: Yeah.] Spread those sheets?

G: Hell yeah, let's see. BABPod. Okay, Writer Sins. I don't think we've ever called it Writer Sins, like ever.

C: Oh, yeah, that's the name of the tab, but- Misogyny, for sure.

G: It is a lot, and it is fundamental to the episode. I would even give it a 5.

C: Yeah, let's do it.

G: Let's not get stingy with- [both laugh] [C: Yeah!] Racism? I don't think so.

C: I don't think so. Sometimes we forget, but I don't remember, so nothing we can do about it.

G: Homophobia?

C: I don't think so.

G: I also don't think so.

C: Why didn't Sam hug Cas, though, you know? Let's really think about it. [laughs] Actually, though, why didn't he?

G: I don't know. I think he just doesn't like Cas that much! [both laugh] After my whole deal about how he's so fond of his buddy Cas. I think he just doesn't like Cas that much.

C: He hugs Dean and Bobby immediately, really hard, and he's very happy to hear that Cas is back.

G: No, because Cas is not yet family, as I've said.

C: I guess it's just Cas just isn't a very affectionate person in the past, so it's strange to Sam.

G: Yeah, it's weird to have this as your first hug. A moment where you're trying to trick him into telling you things.

C: Well, this was before Sam knew. He just called Cas down because he was back, and he wanted to see him.

G: Yeah. But he was- The point is to try to get Cas to say things to him.

C: Because the Bobby thing was weird? [G: Yeah.] Yeah, no, you're right. I mostly missed that. I was just like, "Well, Sam has some time, and he wants to talk to his friend!" [both laugh]

G: His buddy, even. [C: Yeah.] IMDb guesses. I go first. I think this is definitely higher than “Appointment in Samarra,” but I don't know how high. I will go 9.2.

C: That is so interesting because I think it's definitely lower.

G: I'm afraid you're right. But okay, go on.

C: Wait. You looked already?

G: No. I'm just afraid.

C: Oh, okay. This is such a wide spread for us to be doing, but I say 8.5.

G: Hmm! 8.5? [C: Yeah.] Okay, let's check. Huh!

C: What? Were you right?

G: No, Crystal, it's an 8.2! I'm fully one point away!

C: Ha! Hahahahaha! Hahahaha, hahahahaha, hahaha, hahaha. You're still winning, though, this season. You're still winning somehow. I don't know how, but you are still winning.

G: We have really bridged some of the gap.

C: Okay, what was it before? [G: Let's see.] Okay, if I delete all of these- Yeah, yeah, no, we've bridged the gap quite a bit. Hahaha, hahaha, haha. If you care. [both laugh]

G: This one is saying, "The episode is not bad. The real standout is Jared Padalecki." It's true. Yeah.

C: Yeah, it is true, unfortunately.

G: "The brotherly blonde- [laughs] the brotherly bond in its glory-"

C: The brotherly blonde, AKA Dean Winchester.

G: Literally. "Our Sam is back with all the puppy eyes." So true. This one says, "Jensen Ackles is great with the comedic beat bits. Awkward reunion between Cas and soulled Sam. Both Jared and Misha were great on that scene." Who give a shit about Misha Collins? I literally don't consider Misha Collins as part of that episode. Isn't that so wild?

C: Cas is.

G: No, no, no! But isn't that so wild? I was like, "Oh, they gave that scene to Jensen because Jensen's a good comedic actor." "Oh, Jared was really good this episode." But literally, Misha Collins is nowhere to be seen. [C: True.] This one says [both] the dragons are bad. Obviously. I mean, people incessantly make fun of the dragons. I should have known it was lesser.

C: Yeah. "Cute Dean moment, and I liked the blonde women." [both laugh]

G: This one goes, "I don't like the Mother of All theme, especially the girl at the end. She seemed too cute and young to be the big bad of the show."

C: I did feel that a little bit. She just wasn't- she had a little bit of vocal fry on her last line, too, and I was like, "That isn't the voice that I would expect for you."

G: I'm kinda obsessed with the American accents this episode. "[American accent] Man! There's so much weather!" or whatever she says. [both laugh] I'm sorry. That was a really awful rendition of an American accent.

C: This person says, "I like the idea that they have to take virgins." [both] Why? [both laughing] Why? For what reason?

G: What is the definition of that?

C: I don't know!

G: Yeah, this one. "Useless villain, terrible monster." Okay, well, we get it. That's why it got an 8.2.

C: Uh-huh, uh-huh. Interesting stuff. My life is so much better now. You have no idea.

G: I can't believe you have now an opportunity to beat me for real!

C: I mean, let's not get hasty here. But yeah. [both laugh]

G: Are you gonna start rapping about Patrick Swayze?

C: [laughs] No, no. That doesn't rhyme with- What's something that rhymes with "hasty" that's a name? I can't think of anything.

G: I don't know. I also don't know. The next episode title is so corny. Okay, well, that's it-

C: "Like a Virgin" isn't? [G laughs]

G: Okay, that's all for this week's episode of Busty Asian Beauties. Next week, we will be discussing Season 6, Episode 13: "Unforgiven." [C snorts] Leave us a rating or a review wherever you get your podcasts. C: You're right. That is so corny. Follow us on social media! We are on Tumblr at bustyasianbeautiespod.tumblr.com. Our official tag is #BABPod, B-A-B-POD. Thanks to everyone who's donated to our Ko-Fi at ko-fi.com/bustyasianbeautiespod, which is where our outtakes live, and check out our merch at babpod.redbubble.com. G: You can email us any feedback, comments, or inquiries at bustyasianbeautiespod@gmail.com. See you guys next time! [both] Bye! [guitar music]

[bustyasianbeautiespod]

Episode 117: Brystal CABPod

Today, Crystal & Grey discuss Supernatural 6.13 - Unforgiven. We talk about: If Crystal would kill their grandchild who is named Crys with a y, Sam Winchester vowing off blonde women, and the general concept of cuckoldry,

Episode 117 Outtakes: What's up with the Ten Commandments?

Redbubble

Transcript

[bustyasianbeautiespod]

Grey, was the other word for dragon you were looking for "wyvern"? As far as I know, it's not used do differentiate between Eastern and Western dragons, but it's the only other dragon word I know

I actually still have no idea what word it is I have been thinking of and until now it bothers me. I think perhaps I just had this idea that a chinese dragon and a western dragon look so different and so therefore must have different things they are called. like, one of them looks like a crocodile, the other looks like a snake!!! they should be called different things! but alas, this is not the english language in the world we live in.

- grey <33

[bustyasianbeautiespod]

Episode 115 Transcript: How Dare You Sing a Kansas Song To Me Incredibly Terribly and Maybe Out of Tune

[intro guitar music]

G: Hello, it's Grey.

C: Hello, it's Crystal.

G: And this is Busty Asian Beauties, a Supernatural commentary podcast where I, someone who has seen this show many times...

C: And I, someone who only knows the show through social media, discuss every single episode of Supernatural from start to finish. Also, we are both Asian.

G: Both Asian! For today's episode, we will be discussing Season 6, Episode 11: "Appointment in Samarra," written by Sera Gamble and Robert Singer, directed by Mike Rohl.

C: Has Robert Singer written before?

G: I don't think so. I feel like I would have noticed if that was the case.

C: Oh, no, apparently he wrote "Sin City" as well, with Jeremy Carver.

G: Boo! What are his other writing credits for Supernatural?

C: 3.04 “Sin City,” 6.11 “Appointment in Samarra,” 7.16 “Out With the Old,” and 13.15 “A Most Holy Man,” all of them partnered with somebody.

G: [laughs] "A Most Holy Man" is his? That's so- well.

C: It's his and Dabb's. Did Dabb and Loflin break up?

G: Yeah, because Dabb became showrunner, remember?

C: Oh, and Loflin couldn't stand his beloved becoming more successful than him?

G: Yeah, many such cases in romantic relationships. [C: Yeah.] Yeah. I loved this episode. I enjoyed it tremendously.

C: I had a fun time.

G: It has all of the Supernatural classic characteristics: morality story that is so corny, tired, and played out, [C laughs] check. Weird race thing, check. [C laughs] Discussions about Sam's autonomy as a person, got it. [C: Yeah.] Bobby hate? Love Bobby hate. [C: Love it.] Love Bobby hate. So I was enjoying it the whole time.

C: Yeah, this is Sera Gamble's first Season 6 episode after 6.01. I guess showrunning takes a lot time out of your-

G: I mean, this is mid- what do they call it? The mid break? The mid-season hiatus?

C: Ah, I see.

G: So this is the last episode, I'm assuming, before we go back in January, or they go back. They went back in January. So yeah. Happy New Year, Happy 2011 to all of these people.

C: [laughs] So true.

G: What did you know about this episode before going in? I mean, obviously, there are classic ones. But like, aside from that. Wait, what are the classic ones?

C: What do you mean?

G: You know that it was gonna be the one with Death.

C: Yeah, the one where Dean has to take Death's ring and take over for a day, and people think it's cool. I didn't know it was this episode, but of course I saw the post that was like, "You know, Dean shows that he thinks of Bobby as a father by saying it to him, and Sam shows it by trying to kill him for a spell that calls for patricide," [G laughs] and someone reblogs and says, "Sam's always been special in that way."

G: God. That is an altogether hilarious subplot to this episode. [C laughs] Loved it! [C: It's wonderful.] I think, honestly, [laughs] we'll get into it later. But yeah, aside from that, do you know- did you connect the dot that- obviously, the dots connected here. But did you connect the dot that it was Death who was gonna bring Sam back?

C: No, I don't think so.

G: Yeah, I also forgot. [both laugh] So a shock to the both of us. [C: So true.] I suppose it was always gonna be that Death is gonna come back and that there is the very obvious solution of like, they open the gate through, or they open the portal through the rings, and so they may very well open it again through the rings. It make me wonder, because what did Death need all that help for if he can just open it by himself? He didn't have the other rings, did he?

C: True.

G: So yeah.

C: Um, good question. [laughs]

G: Yeah. Maybe it was fated, as he so evidently wants Dean to learn.

C: Yeah, maybe so.

-

G: We start the episode with Dean Winchester driving up to a Chinese grocery store. [C laughs]

C: Yeah. And he hates it! He thinks it's so disgusting and horrible that the place he has to go is near a Chinese grocery store or above a Chinese grocery store. He hates mixed-use housing, and he is for every zoning law that prevents affordable housing from being built in every city.

G: It's crazy because they make it a point to show that it's a Chinese place, right? [C: Yeah.] [C laughs] It isn't like "it just so happened." They make it a part of showing it. And then they have a scene where Dean looks at the address, and then he looks at the address on the building, and then he goes, "Oh my god! You've got to be kidding me," [C laughs] and I was like, "What for?"

C: What for?

G: What for? What is the kidding part of this, Dean?

C: Yeah. What's funny? What's the joke, Dean?

G: Because the gag is that he's meeting a doctor, and it's in a Chinese grocery store, I think.

C: Or he lives above one, and Dean's like, "It's unsanitary there"? Right? Doesn't he say, "Don't you care about hygiene as a doctor?" [both laugh]

G: I just cannot help but feel that it is because it is a Chinese place. That's why he's saying it. [C: Yeah.] I mean, what other reason would there be?

C: I think he's maybe just against mixed-use housing in general.

G: I think they make it explicitly a point to show that they're butchering live animals- or not- like, fish.

C: Just regular- yeah. [laughs] Are fish really live animals? Yes, they are. Sorry to fish.

G: Also, is it called butchering if it's fish?

C: I don't know. Why not?

G: Why not? They're butchering fish. I've been told-

C: Whacked them with that big wooden thing.

G: I have been told that in American markets, they don't have a live fish.

C: Yeah, no, they just have them frozen. [G: Yeah.] They don't even put them out on ice.

G: Is that true? No, that's wild.

C: Well, sometimes they have them in like- well, they have them skinned and cut and deboned and then put in like, containers the way that you would see an unskinned chicken breast, and like-

G: That's wild! [C: Yeah.] Why not even do the displaying on ice thing?

C: I think they don't like to know that the thing they're eating had eyes and a soul.

G: Ah. Okay, yeah, that makes sense.

C: Yeah. Get over it! [laughs]

G: I mean, I think I've told you this, right? But when I go to school, I pass by a goat butcher shop. [C: Yeah.] So the goats, when it's early morning, the goats are literally hanging by the hooks. I mean the butchered goats. But they're draining the blood or something. I don't actually know how butchering works, [both laugh] but in the morning, they're like, shaking. [C: Yeah.] Anyway, people should know. I think people should know that you're eating an animal. That's kind of important about eating an animal. [laughs] That's kind of vital in the process of eating an animal. But okay, whatever.

C: Yeah. Maybe US meat consumption would go down.

G: I'm shocked that they don't do the- I kind of understand not having the fish tanks. I do also wonder sometimes, what's the point of all this? They're all crammed up in there. What's going on?

C: Yeah, I guess they do go bad less quickly if you kill them there, even if they're in pretty bad living situations before they get killed.

G: Yeah, I suppose so. So he's going and looking at the- I'm not even sure if there's a fish tank in this place. He's just looking at the guy with a knife going, "Yucky!" [C laughs] Well, literally he comes in, and he starts asking the butcher, "Hey, so like I'm looking for-" and this guy just looks at him and goes, "This is a white guy wearing a leather jacket. He's obviously a hunter." [both laugh] So he just leads him to the back, "Just go there" or whatever. And as Dean comes up, we meet this guy who was apparently a friend of John's. He's like, "Oh my god! You've grown up so much. I used to treat your dad. I would put him back together. But of course it was ages ago, when I had my medical license. But now I don't! Let's go!" Yeah. And then this is the bit where Dean asks, "You know, I'm not a germ freak, but like..." And the doctor says, "The rent is cheap here." Anyway, we come in. There's an assistant. She hates Dean's ass. Very important! And we don't know what this is all about, but they talk a little bit about like, "Oh, okay, here's the money. What's the success rate here?" The doctor says, "75%." And he tells the doctor that if something happens to go wrong, to send this to the address. And we see the letter, and it's for Benjamin Braden. [C: Yeah.] What do you think about that?

C: Does Lisa mean nothing to you?

G: I mean- What? What did you ask?

C: Oh, I said, "Does Lisa mean nothing to you?" to Dean.

G: No, why is it to Ben?

C: Yeah, I just feel like if he dies, Lisa should learn first and then figure out the best way to put it to Ben.

G: - How to tell Ben. Yeah, there are actually many choices in this episode that I have that kind of reaction to. If I was talking to Dean in real life, I'd go, "Dean, don't do that." But as someone who's watching the show, I find interesting- like, that's fun, interesting stuff. The fact that he would think that it's more important to tell Ben or have Ben be the contact than Lisa, I think is interesting. Because I remember, he would tell Ben, "You take care of your mom" or something back in the day. "Back in the day" [laughs] like five episodes ago, I don't know. [C: Yeah.] I think that speaks to something about Dean. Because I'm sure the contents of that letter isn't just, "I'm dead. RIP to me." It's like, you know, "Take care of your mom." [laughs] And like, I think if you sent that to Lisa, like, "Take care of Ben," that's so condescending. She's been doing it forever. And so I suppose it must go to Benjamin Braeden.

C: Yeah, I guess so.

G: Also, can I just say- I don't want to make fun of people's names. [C laughs] [C: Okay?] But I do think naming someone Benjamin-

C: Don't do B.B.?

G: - is kind of wild. [C laughs] Is Benjamin a wild name? [laughs]

C: I think it's pretty normal.

G: I feel like you should- Well, to be fair, this was in 2011, so maybe it was fine. I feel like in 2025, if you're like 20 years old, the only reason why you would have the name Benjamin is- You know how how some trans guys would have names that are like, a dead soldier from World War II, whatev? [C laughs] [C: Yeah.] That should be the only reason.

C: Yeah, yeah. [G: Yes.] So true.

G: So true, Gregory House M.D.

C: Shoutout all the trans guys who are probably named Wystan.

G: No, are there any? Let's find them. If you're named Wystan, W-Y-S-T-A-N, and it is- [laughs] If you're named Wystan Hugh, [C laughs] contact us, yeah. From beyond the grave, even, if it's possible.

C: Yeah, if it's possible.

G: The assistant inserts a needle on him, and he's like, "Ouchie!" But then the doctor injects a liquid into the IV, and then he's out! Oh, also, the doctor makes a comment about how, "Oh, you're not sending Sam anything?" and Dean says, "If this doesn't work, he doesn't give a fuck," which is like, kind of real! I mean, it's true, number one. [C: True.] Number two, I think it did give me a- "Oh, I kind of get where Dean is coming from." I don't think I ever really thought about the fact that Dean may be- how Dean may be feeling over the fact that Sam doesn't DGAF about him. [C laughs] 'Cause like, I don't think we ever really focus on it that much, surprisingly. Don't you feel like? We focus a lot on how Sam feels about not feeling anything. We also focused on the actions that result to that. But a lot of the Dean side is like, as you mentioned before, surprisingly accepting. [C: Right.] So I don't think we ever really deep dive into like, "Is Dean hurt or anything about Sam not being-" like, if he died, Sam would be like, "Okay, whatever." [C laughs]

C: Yeah. Yeah. I think I've thought about it. [G: Really?] I mean, we talked about it a bit also in terms of- In "You Can't Handle the Truth," how he loses Lisa and Ben sort of in that phone conversation before- I don't know. When he was getting ready to kill Sam because he thought it wasn't him in "You Can't Handle the Truth," he was feeling that kind of loneliness. And then he lost Lisa and Ben, and Bobby didn't really want to talk to him on the phone that much, either, and then the whole Sam reveal happened. But I guess maybe post-soulless Sam, we haven't returned to that yet, but I guess I just assumed it was about the same feeling.

G: Yeah, I suppose so. But anyway, now he's dead, and we get a similar thing as we have the other times Dean has interacted with Tessa where he walks in and sees his dead body. Very fun. [C: Mm.] And so he goes out of the room, he calls onto Tessa. Tessa appears, and Dean says, "I need to talk to Death." And Tessa says no, but then Death shows up. Hell yeah.

-

C: They have a conversation in the Chinese grocery store, and Dean is saying, "Oh, I have your ring still, Death. And I'll give it back to you if you do something for me." And Death is like, "I know where it is. You have no leverage, etc. So what do you want?" And Dean says that he wants Death to get Sam's soul out of the Cage, and also, get Adam, by the way, because he to is in this cage.

G: I was so happy to hear this. I was like, "At least they didn't fully forget." [C: Yeah.] Has Adam literally been mentioned in Season 6?

C: Maybe?

G: I truly don't think so.

C: Maybe not, yeah.

G: Yeah, I truly don't think so.

C: Well, thank you, Sera Gamble, for remembering.

G: Yeah. And I love that- you know, it's the same vibe as when towards the "Swan Song," when Dean is like, "Oh, Adam, I'm coming for you next. Hang in!" or whatever, [C laughs] and then never did. And now Dean is like, "No, you have to get them both out!" And literally, the instant Death is like, "No, only one," he doesn't give a shit about Adam.

C: "No, pick one." It's like, "Okay, Sam." Yeah, yeah. And okay, Death says that Sam's soul has been flayed to the raw nerve, and there's no way to just remove the Hell part from it, but he can put the memories of Hell behind a wall. [G laughs] Sometimes I remember how Cas just took on Sam's, what? "Hell madness" or whatever it's called, and then it was fine? [laughs] [G: Literally.] Whatever. Wild.

G: You know, I mean, this wall thing. It's like, well, one, it's stupid, [C laughs] I feel. [C: Mm.] Two, however stupid it is, I do love the way Death talks about it later as like, "There's gonna be an itch there, don't scratch it," which is very fun. That's a very fun- I think maybe they should have kind of went that more abstract route with it, with regards to how it works. [C: Yeah.] "It's just in a room in a corner in Sam's head" is like, it sounds so stupid! [C: Yeah.] But portraying it as like, I don't know, Sam interacting with Sam in some way, it's fun. But also, just the general idea of like, I actually don't remember that much how the Hell trauma starts manifesting, like what happens. Is it just a natural breakdown of the wall? Or does something happen? [pause] Cas takes it away. [laughs]

C: Cas takes it away, yeah, during his evil mode period.

G: Literally. But Sam was still going for a long time.

C: Yeah, it just seems like he was hallucinating Lucifer a lot, which, it was bad for him, but it was livable. They keep talking about it like he'll just instantly die

G: Also, isn't it wild that Sam was still kind of going for a while after that wall breaks down, but Cas takes it, and he's just immediately like, the way they portray him during that era in Season 7. [C: Yeah.] I don't know. This wall thing? I don't know.

C: [laughs] Mm, I don't know either. [G: Well, yeah.] Yeah. So Cas has all the memories of Sam being tortured in Hell after he takes away the Hell madness?

G: I don't know. I think there's also some people who argue about how the Hell trauma shouldn't even- or the Hell trauma that Cas has, is it as if the trauma is happening to him? [C: Right.] Or is it just like having Sam's memories of it, in which case, if you have the memories of something bad happening, I mean, that must suck. But if it's not happening to you in the memories, what's the situation? How much more or less sucky is it? I don't know. This whole thing again, we don't know. [C: I don't know.] Don't know about the wall.

C: Dunno. This wall is going to hold back the Hell memories, but it's not going to be permanent, and when it collapses, he's done, apparently. And for Death to do this, in return, he wants Dean to win a wager, which is that he has to be Death for a day. He has to put on Death's ring, which will give him Death's powers. He has to do everything that Death does for a day, and if he doesn't do a job or takes the ring off within the 24 hours, then he loses. This whole time, Dr. Roberts has been trying to bring Dean back because he's been gone way longer than the three minutes he gave. And Dean asks, "Why are you doing this?" And Death goes, "Because..." and then Dean wakes up, so we never learn!

G: How does death work? Because like-

C: No, yeah, exactly. He didn't have the ring this whole time. I assume people were still dying, so his powers are innate, so why does he need the ring?

G: No no no. Dean dies. Dean loses his heartbeat. [C: Mm-hm.] But like, does Death touch him?

C: I don't think so. Not yet?

G: Well, I suppose- I don't know.

C: Maybe Death touches him but Tessa doesn't reap him.

G: No, because- no, yeah. The other ones have like this whole thing where it's like, they're alive and suffering until you touch them. So like, I don't know what Dean's situation is. I suppose when he got touched, Death must have been invisible or something. That could also happen.

-

G: But anyway, Dean's now back in his body, and he is considering. And they're in Bobby's house. They're talking about it. When's the last time we saw Bobby?

C: Was it after "Weekend at Bobby's," or was it "Weekend at Bobby's"?

G: Was it literally "Weekend at Bobby's"?

C: Well, let me check the episode list. Oh, wait! No, it had to be after "Weekend at Bobby's" because- Did we see his reaction to knowing Sam was soul- Oh, well, we saw him in "You Can't Handle the Truth" on the phone.

G: Oh, yeah, you're right.

C: And then was he there for the aftermath of that?

G: Did they call Bobby a singular time about Sam being soulless?

C: It just feels like this must have happened.

G: I don't think so. I think they went to Samuel. I think for a moment, they were replacing Bobby with Samuel.

C: Yeah, yeah, no. The last time we saw him was in "You Can't Handle the Truth."

G: Wow! Sidelined, Bobby.

C: Yeah. Didn't Dean promise that the thing he would do after he got out of "Caged Heat" was hunt down Samuel and kill him? [laughs] Really slacking on that one.

G: Yeah. But Sam ran away and then came back, [laughs] so like, they have other priorities. It is also hilarious to me that last episode ended with Sam power-walking away, and now he's just fully here. Like, hell yeah.

C: No, yeah, actually, [both laughing] where did he go?

G: He just took the scenic route to the car door, [C: So true.] so that's why he was walking away.

C: So true. At Bobby's. Sam is adamant that he does not want Dean to try this because if he gets his soul back, he will die, and this wall thing does not seem very trustworthy. And Sam says, "Oh, you're playing pretty fast and loose with my life here, don't you think?" And Dean says, "I'm trying to save your life." And Sam says, "Exactly, Dean. It's my life, it's my soul, and it's not your head that's going to explode when you fuck up," which I guess starts the whole thing this episode where it's like- I don't know. Just Sam's autonomy debates. Classic Supernatural move. [G: Yeah.] It is his life and his soul, but if he's gonna be killing people, [laughs] the people who he's trying to kill should have some say in it?

G: Yeah, I mean, honestly, when he started killing Bobby, I was like, "Well. [both laughing] Well." Okay, I think the question that they're trying to pose here is, I would say, the same question that they were trying to pose with the demon blood addiction arc, which is that Sam is quote-unquote "not in his right mind." [C: Right.] I think that is more effective here than it was in the demon blood arc. [C: Right.] I think a part of it is that later on, he asks Bobby, "Are you gonna lock me up?" And Bobby says, "Not unless I have a reason to." And then they only lock him up when he does have a reason to. So it doesn't feel as egregious, or as- The thing is, I feel like in both situations, Supernatural the TV show wants us to react similar ways, like be on the same side of Bobby and Dean on both accounts. But like, I wasn't in the demon blood, and here I am a little bit more on Dean and Bobby's side, so I don't know. I think maybe Sera Gamble likes this- Didn't she write-

C: "When the Levee Breaks"? Yeah.

G: Yeah, so like, I think she likes this theme and wants to do things with it. I don't know. I feel a little bit like, "Okay." [laughs] I mean, again, they do deliver more complexity to it this episode. It's just that- I don't know. I suppose, okay, I'll go back to what I was trying to say. The question here is that if you're sick in some way or other, who is the person who is your- What do you call that? Power of attorney, basically.

C: Yeah, yeah. I was trying to figure what that was called before the episode started.

G: Who is your power of attorney? And here, it argues that it's Dean-

C: I don't think it should be.

G: - and that this is a situation where power of attorney is required. When Sam is like, "No, don't put my soul back in," I was like, "Yeah, don't!"

C: [laughs] Yeah, literally don't. I don't think Dean should have power of attorney. I mean, for various reasons, but also on top of those reasons, he doesn't want Sam's soul back for reasons related to Sam. He just wants his brother to wuv him again.

G: I was supposed to point this out later, but I think there's an excellent line in the later scenes that really points it out. Actually, I will just point it out later. But like, yeah. Dean doesn't care about Sam in this situation, which Sam points out. [C: Yes.] He cares about himself and his idea of the little brother that he has. And like, I think, one, that's the issue. Two, I wish Sam explained to Bobby, "I'm killing you because I need to commit patricide so that [C laughs] my soul can't come back in" because then, it wouldn't be like, "Oh, I just tried to kill you."

C: "I just want to kill you because I hated your vibes."

G: If Dean was like, "Okay, no, we're not gonna attempt to put your soul back in, I promise," he'd be like, "Okay, I don't need to kill Bobby."

C: No, for real.

G: So I wish they just told him, so you know.

C: Yeah, yeah. I was saying, "It's not good that he's trying to kill people," but he is only trying to kill people once it's his own survival on the line. [G: Yeah.] He is a hundred percent certain that what Dean is doing right now is going to kill him, so he's doing this so that he doesn't die. I feel like that's reasonable, honestly.

G: Yeah. And also, I find it so fascinating that he jumps immediately to "Well, I gotta kill Bobby" [C laughs] because he understands that he can't reason Dean out of this one. [C: Mm-hm.] And that's what I find so fascinating. He just gives up on that front completely [C: Yeah.] because he understands it's not gonna work. And if this was about something else, and Sam had his soul, he would have argued to hell and back with Dean. He would have. But I just find so fascinating that without that soul component, he's just like, "Yeah, Dean is an unreasonable person to have this conversation with," which is true.

C: Yeah. God. Love it when they make an episode that's like, "And Sam's so dangerous. His soul needs to go back in!" And we're just like, "He was right for trying to kill Bobby."

G: [laughs] He wasn't right for trying to kill Bobby! But like-

C: I think it was a reasonable thing to do. [G laughs]

G: It was reasonable, and his mistake was not communicating to Bobby why he was trying to kill him. [C laughing] Like, he should have done it.

C: Literally! [both laugh]

G: He should have did an evil villain speech that made him more empathetic to the audience, thus making him a complex character.

C: Yeah, yeah. But he won't because, I mean, he doesn't care about being sympathetic to the audience. He cares about not dying. Which again, reasonable.

G: That's actually an excellent point. He didn't care if Bobby knew.

C: Yeah, but he did say sorry to him.

G: Oh, that's true! Wow. [C: Yeah.] Love patricide.

C: Love it. [G: Yeah.] Bobby asks about Dean's half of the deal.

So Sam starts leaving, and Dean's like, "Huh?" And Sam's like, "I totally understand where you're coming from. I just need to... [both] time to think!" Love it! And then he goes out to Bobby's metal yard- what's it called? [G: Yeah.] Scrapyard? Scrapyard.

G: Junkyard, where cars go to die. Salvage yard.

C: Salvage yard, yes. And he was apparently looking for where they hid Death's ring so that Dean couldn't use it for his end of the deal, but Dean has already taken it.

G: There's fully just a hole in the ground, shout-out to Dean.

C: Yeah, love it. And Dean's like, "Sam, I'm your bwother! I'm not gonna let you get hurt!" Untrue. And Sam's like, "Okay, fine. I'll trust you here, barely, because you're the one with the moral compass, so I should." Love when somebody lies. And Dean's like, "Okay, yay! Bye!" And then-

G: Immediately turns around to tell Bobby to watch him.

C: - tells Bobby, "I don't trust Sam. Watch that bitch." Yeah. I don't know. Fascinating dynamics here.

G: Yeah! And he says "Watch him." so loud, too, in a way that is supposed- [C laughs] Like, the way it's shot, it's implied that Sam hears it, which is also very fun.

C: Yeah. I don't even know if Dean wanted Sam to hear. It's possible Dean wanted Sam to hear it.

G: That's true, that's true, yeah.

-

G: But Sam probably did hear it, and now it's just Sam and Bobby. [C laughs] Sam asks, "Okay, are you gonna lock me up now in the panic room?" And Bobby says, "Do I have to?" And Sams goes, "Noo!"

C: I mean, currently, that is true. He has no plans to kill Bobby yet.

G: Yeah. He says, "Well, let's just wait for Dean to get fucking going." And so Dean does. He goes out, puts on the ring, and Tessa's there. And yeah. Tessa explains what they're gonna try to do, which is that they have a list of names that Dean can't look at, and for the next 24 hours, he just has to kill who is on that list, basically. So they go around the town, killing people. And like, I find this fascinating. Does Tessa have this power?

C: The touching people and they die power? No.

G: Yeah. She's just a reaper. She's not a killer. Wow! [laughs] We should not.

C: She's not a father, she's a killer.

G: Yeah. Well, RIP to- Who the fuck does Jeremy Strong play in Succession?

C: Kendall?

G: Kendall. [laughs] I always forget his name. But yeah, RIP to Kendall Roy. He's not a killer. So he just touches who's supposed to die. They die, RIP. And if he removes the ring before the 24 hours, times up, and also he's not gonna get Sam's soul back. Okay. This entire sequence is so like- [C laughs] You learn shit you learn when you're in third grade. [C laughs] [C: Uh-huh, yeah.] You know what I mean? And it's so wild. It's kind of wild to see it on your screen, played by adults, complete with a straight face. [C laughing] Like, what is this? And also, the morals are just like- It's like, literally, you go to church, [C laughing] the priest tells you "Everything happens for a reason" kind of deal, you know? [C: Yeah.] It's just like, it's both fascinating because it's a very basic moral tale that they play completely straight. And also, two, that they don't add anything to it. [C: Yeah.] [C laughs] It's just that.

C: Yeah. Like, what I learned is that Dean Winchester is stupid.

G: Yeah! Has he never read a fable?

C: [laughs] Aesop! I read.

G: Does he- Yeah. Well, he only read Aesop in between this episode and "Baby," so we have a couple seasons to go. He's gonna get to the point in Season 11 where he has read Aesop, but it's not today. [C laughs] Literally how we describe it, that's what happens. Fully what happens. But before we get into that, we get a fun and fresh scene where Sam summons an angel. And it's Balthazar!

C: There he is.

G: So he tells Balthazar- Like Balthazar calls him out for calling him, like, "Why me?" And Sam goes, "Desperate times, blah blah blah, I need your help." And Balthazar says, "Go ask your boyfriend." Very fun. Sastiel.

C: Yay! Yay! Yay! Yay. [G: Yeah.] [laughs] Love it, love it, love it. Everyone's so stuck on the Balthazar line where he talks to Dean about Cas being into him. But this is just how Balthazar talks, [G: Yeah.] and he said it to Sam first. So think about that.

G: He literally said it to Sam first. And I love that Balthazar's like, "Why don't you call your boyfriend?" And Sam, with no hesitation, just goes, "Cas is busy."

C: Yay! Yay!

G: Love it. And that's what makes them good in bed. I'm so sorry. For the rest of Season 6, we're going to be saying that. [C laughs] And that's so important.

C: Yay! [laughs] Anyway, yay.

G: Yeah. What Sam needs is something to keep a soul out forever. And Balthazar says that, "You don't want your soul back. That's true, and you should not want it back." And he says that he will do this service to Sam for free because it would be very nice for Sam to owe him something. And Balthazar says there's ingredients, blah blah blah, spell, maybe, but what he really needs is to scar his vessel, meaning that he needs to do something so bad that it becomes uninhabitable. And the thing that fits this criteria is patricide?

C: What if you hate your dad? What if your dad has bad vibes?

G: Literally. What if killing your dad is the way to go?

C: I don't know. Fascinating stuff. Also, specifically patricide?

G: Yeah, like, if you kill your mom, it's fine?

C: If you kill your mom, it's cool?

G: Yeah. Well, I think I think, honestly, this should be a soul-to-soul basis situation.

C: Yeah, I agree.

G: It should be a vessel-to-vessel case situation. Yeah.

C: There's somebody each person can kill that makes their body so polluted that their soul refuses to enter because they don't want to live with that. I think that that makes sense. But just being patricide. Fascinating look into the Supernatural philosophy.

G: No, literally. Sam just does a smirk like, "You're so stupid, Balthazar." He goes, "My dad has been dead for years." And Balthazar says, "You need the blood of your father, but your father need not be blood." So dun-dun-dun! It's killing Bobby time.

C: Did people watching thought it might be Samuel? [G: Huh.] Because I think that's sort of the second option.

G: Huh. I suppose I just thought, "Why else would they bring Bobby in here other than to try to kill him?"

C: No, real. [both laugh] Yeah, yeah.

G: That's an interesting question. For Dean, obviously, it's gonna be Bobby. [C: Yeah.] For Sam, is it really Bobby?

C: He loves him like a coworker.

G: It's not, is the thing.

C: I mean, I guess Samuel also loves him like a coworker. Also, I don't know. What even is the metric of "like a father to me"?

G: Yeah, exactly.

C: Like, you love them, they love you? You've done specific things together? What is it?

G: They play a mentor role in your life? What, you can kill your professor? [C: Real.] What's the situation? Sometimes, I do think, what if did Sam did push through with this, and it was just like, "Ugh, Bobby doesn't count. He's not enough of a father to you." [C laughing] And it's like, "Damn it! I just killed Bobby for no reason."

C: Yeah, RIP.

-

G: So we go back to our fable of the day. Tessa and Dean are talking about stuff that Dean may experience in this 24 hours, and one of them being that people want to ask questions after they die. And a big one is, "What does it all mean?" And Dean asks, "Okay, am I just magically going to know?" Tessa says no, and Dean's like, "I don't know how to do this, then." And Tessa goes, "Well, suck it up." And so they enter a convenience store, and there's a guy who's robbing some guy who has a kid beside him, and they're both Asian. Love it.

C: And they're Asian! [G: Love it!] Love it.

G: And he's robbing these two and asking them to give money over, including the one that's hidden away. And he threatens to shoot the kid, so you, the watcher, are like, "Oh my god! What if it's the kid that dies? There is a kid that dies in Supernatural, apparently." [C: Yeah.] Didn't we have this discussion about "Can children die on screen in Supernatural?" Apparently, they can. I feel like this is an even more maybe direct way to do it versus like, you know, evil child dies, I don't know. [C: Yeah.] You know what I mean. Because it's like a real situation. [C: Right.] It feels realer than creepy child death or whatever. But anyway, that's for later. Now it's not the kid who dies because the older- the adult hands over an envelope to the robber, and while he is trying to open it, the guy picks a gun from his register and shoots the robber. And now he's on the floor bleeding out, and Dean's like, "Wow, I guess he died."

C: He really stoked about it.

G: Yeah, he's like, really happy that this guy got shot. And Tessa goes, "You need to touch him now so that he'll die." But Dean goes, "Oh, he's in agonizing pain, right? I'm just gonna wait." What an asshole.

C: Yeah, love how Dean's first moment of going against the rules of this bet is that he loves torture so much.

G: No, literally. [laughs] Yeah. [C: God.] "Oh, I don't want to torture monsters, even though they're monsters, because torture is fundamentally bad!"

C: "But I will torture monsters all the time, too! I love torture, and also, I love torturing this guy!"

G: Literally. And yeah, finally touches the guy. The guy goes like, "Why?" And Dean goes, "Mostly because you're a dick. Enjoy the ride down, pal. Trust me, sauna gets hot." Something- Dean.

C: I don't think so. I don't think this is right.

G: It's so awful. And then like, Tessa's just like, "Okay, come on now." [laughs] And the guy just walks there. He doesn't even try to stay on Earth, which we know can be done.

C: Yeah. Dean's been through Hell torture. It was really bad. Would he really- is this just like- Okay, robbing someone, threatening to shoot their kid, not good. But this is the bar or the line at which he's like, "Somebody deserves that for eternity"?

G: Literally. He was there. [C: Yeah.] "Oh, I'm so happy that this guy is gonna get tortured for thirty years and then start torturing other people and then become a demon in the future!"

C: Yeah, no. Also, if he thinks this guy sucks so badly, this guy's probably gonna decide to start torturing people immediately, right? Like in Dean's mind? So like, what's the gain here, right?

G: Yeah, I don't know.

C: He's like, "This guy sucks. He's fundamentally violent. That's why I think that he deserves to be tortured forever." But in the Hell structure, what that means is that Hell just gained a new, good torturer.

G: Yeah. He's gonna shoot up those ranks.

C: Yeah. [G: Well.] It's very confusing to me.

G: Yeah, it's gonna make the workplace more toxic and competitive, Dean. [C laughs] Have you considered that? [C: Yeah, literally.]

But okay, their next gig is, as they're walking out they see a guy, and he is-

C: And he's fat! Gasp!

G: And he's fat, and he's eating a pizza!

C: "How could he? Doesn't care about his life? Doesn't he care about his family's life? What a loser! I hope he dies!" is all things that Dean is thinking and basically says.

G: It's so wild- honestly, it's so wild to me [C laughs] in TV shows where they would show quote-unquote "a fat person," [C: Yeah.] and the person is like literally [both] not fat. And also, the fatphobia is insane. [C: Yeah.] What's going on with that? But anyway, this not fat guy [C laughs] that Dean has predicted is going to get a heart attack gets a heart attack, and then he falls down and dies. And Dean tells the guy- The guy asked, "Why did I die?" And Dean goes, "Oh, it's probably the extra cheese. Like, look at you." [C: Yeah.] It's just so- What's going on? But anyway, the guy agrees with him? Like, "Yeah, I mean, that's probably why."

C: Yeah. And I feel like the lesson is supposed to be "You shouldn't be blase about death in any way," but instead, it's just, "Some people deserve to die, and some people don't, but you have to do it anyway."

G: Yeah, some people imagine a burger. [laughs] If Dean tried to explain why death happens, he just goes, "Imagine a burger." [C laughs] And yeah, he has this bit where he asks the guy, "Oh my god! Is that a local joint?" and Tessa has to reprimand him to stop doing that. And the guy asks, like, "What does it all mean?" And Dean goes, "[singing badly] Everything is dust in the wind." [C laughs] And then, you know, the guy is like, "How dare you sing a Kansas song to me incredibly terribly and maybe out of tune?" [C laugh]s And yeah, Dean's a little bit offended, I guess. And Tessa goes, "Sorry! He's new." Honestly, Tessa is a bit irresponsible in the workplace.

C: Don't say that. Don't do that, Tessa.

G: Like, especially later with the kid, it's insane. No, no, not the kid.

C: No, with the nurse. She's like, "Oh, you died because that guy over there fucking sucks!"

G: Not only did she say "You died," she said, "You were supposed to live a full, beautiful life and it has been robbed from you," which is like not- When I die, I don't want to hear any of that shit. [C laughs] You tell me I lived a full life. That's what you tell me. [C: For real.] You don't tell me, "You could have been 78!" I don't care.

C: Yeah. "If you lived the next day you would have tripped over a rake, it would have hit you in the face, you would have fallen over face-first into a pile of shit. Thank god you're out now."

G: Yeah!

-

G: The next portion of this fable is now Tessa and Dean going up to a hospital. And in the hospital room that they're in, there is a kid who's connected to the monitors and stuff, and her dad, who is reading to her, but a photo album.

C: Showing her a photo album, yeah.

G: Yeah. And Dean- There's also a nurse there, and we zoom in onto her name tag so we can get familiar with her, I guess. And Dean [laughs] asked, "The kid or the dad," which is like, kind of a wild thing to say when you can clearly see that the child is the one who has, you know, all of the wires and shit. [C: Yeah.] But yeah, he says, "Oh, this kid is so young." Apparently, she's twelve, and etc. etc. And insane thing-

C: No, fascinating. Fascinating next question. I was shocked.

G: I was like, "What a lovely writing choice." But he asks, "Does this guy-" as in the father- "have any other family?" [C: Insane.] And Tessa goes, "No, not really." And that's the thing that puts him off the most.

C: Yeah, like, what?

G: That, "Oh my god! This dad's twelve-year-old is gonna die!" How about the twelve-year-old who's dying? Have you considered the twelve-year-old who's dying? [laughs] I think it is an excellent writing choice because it really hammers home what it is-

C: [laughs] What Dean cares about.

G: Yeah. He's not thinking about Sam, you know, the whole bit. Because this whole morality tale that Death is making Dean experience is about how they keep on trying to revive Sam and each other. I don't know. They keep on trying to live longer than they should, and Dean specifically tried to revive Sam and then bring Sam's soul back and all that crap, all that crap. What he's trying to say here is that "You should stop doing that." And then now, we see here, very visibly, that he's doing it not because of Sam but because of himself, because he doesn't really have any other family.

C: Yeah. Besides Bobby, who's like a father to him. [G: Yeah!] I would be asking, "Does this kid want to be an astronaut when she grows up?" But yeah, yeah, crazy stuff!

G: Yeah, anyway, Dean asked if he can skip this kid. Tessa says no, and Dean says, "Well, I have the ring so I can do whatever I want." And Tessa says, "You know, it's destiny." And Dean says, "Fuck destiny. I spent my whole life fighting destiny, so I don't even give a shit. The little girl gets to live." And Tessa points out that "Every single time you tried to fight destiny, it didn't really work out for you, so like, whatever." It's just- Supernatural's take on fate and free will is so fascinating because the explicit things that they are saying is that, you know, "We should have free will! And we should-" and you know, it's complex, obviously, and it's a theme that they explore throughout the show. And the intensity at which they try to peddle perspectives differ throughout the entire thing. But most of the time, the text is like, "We should have our own actions, and we should have free will, and free will, it's so important, and we should fight destiny!" But all of the subtext is like, "You shouldn't. You should just accept your fate." The show ends how it ends. [laughs] So I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. It's fascinating.

C: Yeah. I don't know. And I love how okay, even in this one, where it's like, Dean eventually accepts destiny and fate, but then Death is like, "I'm gonna help you, anyway. So you're special!" [G: Yeah.] What's dead should stay dead, and what should die should die. But not for you, Dean!

G: I think they're trying to have the same attitude that Supernatural has with anything else that it deems is wrong, which is like, "Yeah, it's wrong. But the only thing that you need to do about it is frown about it." [C laughs] [C: Yeah.] So like, yeah, you can, you know, fight destiny all you want, but it's still gonna catch up to you, no matter what. But as long as you're sad about it, it's fine. [C laughs]

C: Yeah, we'll let you get out of it.

G: Yeah. Anyway, the little girl gets wheeled to the operating room, but then they check on her. Her heart's completely fine, and now she has a miracle, so they don't have to operate on her anymore. And then we go to the nurse who is now heading out because her surgery was cancelled and she can go home early. Dun-dun-dun!

C: Dun-dun-dun!

-

C: So back at Bobby's, Sam comes in from the whole talking to Balthazar thing, and he and Bobby drink some beers, they play some poker. It's all very tense. And when Bobby offers to go to the fridge to get another beer, Sam sneaks up behind him to knock him out with a wrench! Love it. But apparently, Bobby had a baseball bat in the fridge [laughs], which he uses to hit Sam first. And he's like, "I'm not fucking stupid, Sam," but he's disappeared when he turns around. So there's just a thing where, you know, [laughs] Sam's chasing Bobby around the house or whatever. Bobby's in the closet.

G: He's hammering through the fucking closet. Bobby's in the closet, first of all.

C: Yeah, he's in the closet. Shout-out. And Sam starts whacking an axe against the door like- what is it called? The Shining?

G: Yes, he's The Shining through the door.

C: Like in The Shining. And Bobby's like, "Haha! Got you!" And then he pushes a button, and Sam's apparently standing on a trap door [both laugh] that deposits him in the basement.

G: And the way the way they do it is Sam goes, "Well, Bobby, you should have not cornered yourself," and Bobby goes, "I didn't." And then he pushes the trap door open. Honestly, I would love to know the architecture of this place. [C: Yes.] How is it there? Is there like-

C: How did he do it?

G: Maybe the reason this house fucking gets destroyed later is because Bobby removed all the load-bearing foundations [C laughs] to make all of this shit.

C: No, literally. Literally. Fascinating house. Love it. And Sam tries to break down the door, but apparently, it's made out of reinforced steel and titanium, so he can't. So Bobby's like, "Okay, let's just talk." And Sam's like, "Okay, yeah, I guess I can't get through this door to kill you. Let's just talk!" Though he may also be waiting for Bobby to let his guard down. It's hard to know exactly his intentions at every point. Oh, I forgot! When Sam corners Bobby, he does specifically say, "I got to do this. I'm sorry," which I think is nice. [G laughs] I don't know if this was like, [G: He's so niceys.] he thought that this was the last moment, and he actually did feel sorry. I guess I'm wondering like what his motivations in saying sorry were. Was it like, "If this doesn't work, I want Bobby to continue seeing me as sympathetic so that I can continue to maybe have a bit of a leg up," or like did he feel it? I don't know.

G: I think sometimes you just go, "Sorry!" just like before.

C: Yeah, yeah, but he could also not talk, you know? [G: That's true.] There's no reason that he needs to talk.

G: That's true, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it is a choice to say, "Sorry, Bobby." [C: Yeah.] And I mean, I said earlier that he doesn't explain himself, and it is true, but he does a little bit.

C: Yeah, he does a little bit. Yeah, while they're having this conversation through the door, Sam says that he has to do this because he'll die if Dean puts his soul back in, and he can't let it happen. He goes, "I mean, it's not like I want to kill you. You've been nothing but good to me." Untrue! [laughs]

G: Literally not true.

C: Literally not true, so he must be lying about all of it. [laughs] And Bobby's like, "Oh, is it a demon deal?" And Sam says, "It's a spell." And Bobby's like, "You're making a mistake," and Sam says, "I'm trying to survive." So true. Literally reasonable, honestly. Yeah, Bobby keeps saying the wall's gonna work. Sam is skeptical. And then he says, "What if it doesn't work? Dean doesn't care about me. He just cares about his little brother, Sammy, burning in Hell. He'll kill me to get that other guy back." Love it! Love lines, love the truth. And Bobby goes like, "Yeah, that's scary. But you're scawier! Because you're not in your right head, and you're not giving us much choice here." He was basically fine before this. I mean, he wasn't entirely because he let Dean get turned into a vampire and all that [G laughs], but like, literally he was fine. Have we considered that? [G: Yeah.] Have we considered that he was fine? I don't know. I feel like all of his actions follow a logic that you can anticipate. And I think that it's not pleasant to be hunting with someone where you know that [G: Yeah.] if you do something that goes against like one of their deeply-held rules about how they want things to go, that they'll turn against you, but you also don't have to be hunting with him, and maybe if they focused more-

G: They should just let Sam into the world, let him loose.

C: Literally. if they focus maybe a bit more on the "Oh, I definitely probably got innocent people killed when I was hunting earlier, soulless, with the Campbells," I get that as a motivation. But yeah, right now, I guess the only motivation is, "I wuv my real brother, and I need to keep this guy here so that I can get my real brother back."

G: Yeah. Also, Sam allegedly breaks his leg in this one.

C: Does he?

G: Yeah, they have like a shot of his- I was watching. [C: Yeah.] I'm just really proud that I was.

C: Good job. It is bloody.

G: Yeah, he has a bloody leg. Or was it a gash? Maybe it was like, he got scratched real bad, but his leg was bloody. I thought it was broken. So when he was walking, I was like, "Why is he walking not weird?" I thought he had a broken leg. But yeah, maybe it's just a giant fucking gash. But it's relevant to the plot that he's getting blood everywhere. [C: Yeah.] Also, we completely bulldoze over this. This is the plot of the last half of "Mystery Spot."

C: Oh, yeah!

G: Sam was trying to get Bobby, too. So you know what? I just truly love that now it is evidently- it's safe to say- a recurring theme! [laughs] [C: Yeah.] Sam trying to kill Bobby! It's so important.

C: It is. Bobby starts not hearing anything from the other side of the door, and then he opens it. Stupid! I would just assume that Sam was trying to lure me into a trap. But yeah, he looks through, and apparently Sam went through to the panic room and then broke out through the vent in the ceiling. Love being tall.

-

G: Now we're back to Dean and Tessa. Tessa is obviously very tense as she's walking around the hospital. And Dean is kind of pestering her like, "What? You're mad at me now? Come on." But then they hear siren of ambulance being wheeled out. It's the nurse. She got into a very bad car crash. Her heart's doing bad, and they need the surgeon for the heart, and he's not there. Dean realizes it's the nurse, and he starts feeling incredibly guilty. And Tessa is like, "You just knocked over a domino. Everything you do has consequences." She wants Dean to touch and kill this woman. And Dean, you know, doesn't want to do it because she's not on the list, but Tessa says that "If you don't kill her, it's gonna set up even more chain reactions." I thought, honestly, that the surgeon was also gonna die. [C: Mm.] 'Cause the way they worded it is like, the nurse gets home early, gets in a car crash she wouldn't have, and she needs a heart surgeon. "And where is he?" And it's like, "He's about to get into a car crash, too!" [laughs]

C: So true. But no, it's just he also left, so he can't help her.

G: Also, it's a little bit wild that they did not do a lot of resuscitation. Or I suppose we didn't see what was happening while they were on their way to the room. [C: Yeah, yeah.] There's probably a lot there already. She just she dies after he touches her. Her name's Jolene. [singing] Jolene, Jolene, Jolene, blah blah. I don't actually know how that song goes. [C hums] And now she's staring at her body. And she goes, "But I'm..." and Tessa continues her sentence like, "Yeah, you're so young. Actually-" This is crazy. She says, "Actually, you were supposed to live for many decades, have kids, grandkids." And Jolene asks, "Then why?" And Tessa says, "Because he screwed up." [C: Yeah.] Why would you do this?

C: She's being spiteful towards Dean.

G: She's being spiteful towards Dean, ruining this woman's life even more than they already have, the both of them.

C: Yeah, I mean, she's reaped a lot of people. I feel like she doesn't feel that much sympathy anymore.

G: It may be true, yeah. But Dean still tries to say "I'm sorry" to her. The husband comes in and sees that his wife is dead and cries over her body. And Tessa and Hilary go over to [C: Dean.] the hospital room where the kid with the heart disease is in. Tessa says that she is disrupting the natural order by being alive. "Chaos and sadness will follow her for the rest of her life. We tried it your way. So now we have to kill her for real." Which is like, kind of wild.

C: They have "Faith" in the "Then" sequence, and I think it's because of this moment? I think we're supposed to go, "And because Dean also cheated Death, chaos and sadness is following him for the rest of his life."

G: Crystal. He literally died and went to Hell.

C: Yeah.

G: So like, isn't that the one that is the-

C: Eventually, he got there?

G: No no no. I mean, I suppose "Faith" is the first time that they do it in the show, so it's gotta count for something.

C: Yeah, wait, "Faith" was in the- Was it in the "Then" sequence? I thought it was. Or was it not?

G: I don't think it was.

C: Oh, was it "In My Time of Dying."

G: I think it was all Tessa. It was all Tessa.

G: Okay, yeah. It was "In My Time of Dying," then. Never mind.

G: So you're talking about Dean dying in Season 2, basically.

C: Yeah, I remember there was a scene in the "Then" sequence where he's in the hospital, and I got it mixed up which one it was.

G: Yeah, I mean the only thing- the way I recognize that episode now is through the title that we gave it in the podcast, [both] "FEET!" All this is happening while Dean is watching the husband get into his car while super drunk. And he's off, driving away, so Dean goes, "Okay, whatever. I'll kill the girl, but let me handle this first." So he hops into the car, but obviously, the guy can't see him, and he's trying to tell him to stop the car, but obviously, it's not working. And so he removes the ring as the guy's about to hit a giant truck so that he can veer-

C: Also, to be clear. He's not just drunk driving. I think it's clear that he's [both] trying to kill himself.

G: Yeah. Dean comes in because he sees that he's drunk driving, and then, as the driving progresses, it becomes more and more obvious that he is suicidal. Dean swerves the car so that it crashes into an empty car instead of the giant fucking moving truck. The guy is unconscious for a bit. It's still a pretty bad car crash, but not death bad, you know? And so Dean opens up the door, heads out, and says, "Tessa, I need a ride home. [C laughs] I know I didn't do it, but can you at least zap me back?" And we have this like extended bit where the guy in the car wakes up, and he looks over at Dean, and he sees the moment when Dean becomes invisible. This is never revisited, but it is pretty fun. [C: Yeah.] Dean puts back the ring on, and Tessa is there, but he decides that he needs to finish the job. So he goes to the room where Hilary is-

C: Hilary being the little girl.

G: Yeah. And he whispers to the dad, "You have to wake up because I'm gonna kill her now." And the dad stares awake. And then he touches the girl's hand, and she dies. The last scene of this whole thing is the girl in spirit form now, looking at her body being resuscitated, and her dad is watching on the side. And she goes, "What about my dad?" And Dean says, "He'll be fine." The girl asks, "Really?" And Dean says, "I have no idea." And the girl says, "I can't just leave him. It's not fair." And Dean goes, "I know." So she asks why, and Dean says, "Well, there's a natural order to things." And Hilary, the kid, says, "Well, natural order is stupid," and Dean agrees. It's such a nothing. [C: Yeah.] I feel like this is the kind of shit that again, you learn in like, a special Elmo episode where they talk about Death. [C laughs] Or I don't know. I think an Elmo episode is actually gonna have a little bit more complexity. [C laughs] I don't know. It just feels so- it's so nothing in the kind of thing that it's trying to deliver. And Supernatural is not typically a show I have high expectations on on things, but whenever they talk about death, and meaning of dying and also fate and free will and blah blah blah, I do think they generally always have something interesting to say, at least. And so it is completely fascinating to watch this episode try to have this message. And I get that they're trying to attribute it to Dean's life, and that's the entire relevance, which is what Tessa says later. "The whole point of this is to teach you, Dean, a lesson." But when laid out like this, it just seems so stupid. It seems so juvenile, is what I think.

C: Yeah, I don't know. Could it be attributed to just Dean being a hunter? I don't know. I guess his whole job is to prevent people from dying, and then the people who do die are the people he kills who "deserve" it. [G: Yeah!] And so he just hasn't thought about it that much. But also, his dad died. [laughs] [G: Yeah.] And Ellen and Jo died, and Pamela died.

G: Yeah, I kept on thinking about Ellen and Jo this episode because that is what-

C: They mentioned their deaths last episode.

G: Yeah, that, and two, there is a whole sense of question- the running question in this episode is like, "Why die? What's the point?" or like, "What's the point of living?" you know? And I feel like having a- I feel like Jo and Ellen do have a kind of senseless death. In terms of something that Dean can chew on and analyze, he can think about how like his dad died for a cause, which is to keep him alive, or you know. Stuff like that. Most hunters die in the hunt. But Ellen and Jo-

C: They also died on a hunt.

G: Yeah, but it was- Ellen died to stay behind to stay with Jo, and I think that is something. She was trying to do something in that moment. I feel like with Jo's death specifically, it was because at that moment, they were trying to get to Lucifer, and it wasn't even there yet, you know? She died in the pre-hunt is what it feels like, which is like-

C: It was that she had to blow up the building because of the hellhounds?

G: Yeah. They didn't even get to the point of the main contention of the episode yet. And so I don't know. And I think that is the most relevant death that I can think of that Dean has experienced recently.

C: Yeah. Pamela's dead.

G: I suppose he experienced Sam's death.

G: Pamela's death was in Season 4.

C: 5? No, it was- Wasn't it in "My-" no, wait, when was it? It was in- Was it in Season 4?

G: It was because she whispered to Sam, "I know what you're up to."

C: Oh, yeah! [G: Yeah.] She was in a hotel room, and there were demons. What happened in that episode?

G: Sam and Dean went to die for whatever reason. [C: Real.] And she has to bring them back. Oh, no, no, they like just went to sleep for some reason. I don't know. They were doing something.

C: Was this the hunt where there was that kid?

G: I don't think it was the kid. Or maybe it was. I'm not sure. But it's something.

C: Oh, okay, so yeah, Ellen and Jo were more recent.

G: Yeah. And also, I don't know, they're closer to Ellen and Jo. [C: Yeah.] Yeah. And I suppose it is interesting- It did remind me also, I guess, because the death that they most focus on is about mourning the loss of a child. So that's relevant, I guess. Also, I don't know, it is- I never really- I think, in the past, I know from stuff that people are sensitive about children dying, and I never really understood it as a kid. [C: Mm.] But I think I understand it now that I'm older. I'm like, "Oh, okay." Yeah, watching- seeing this is more upsetting than the nurse, for example. [laughs] Sorry. Sorry to that nurse. No, but I just mean I do find the choice that they make interesting, although I suppose it is the easiest choice to make. [C: Yeah.] [C laughs] But the focus on the dad being the one who was left behind with no one, and there's an early mention of "Oh, yeah, that was your mom when she was that age, when she was your age," implying that the mom is not around, probably dead. So I don't know. There's a lot of projection happening for Dean this episode, etc.

-

C: Yeah. Bobby's trying to track down the escaped Sam Winchester, and he's able to do so because Sam's injuries means that he's smearing blood [G: Bleeding everywhere.] all around, and Bobby's just following that trail. Bobby gets to a shed, and then Sam knocks him out and drags him in there. And Bobby wakes up, tied up. [laughs] Sam's sharpening a knife. [G laughs] So funny.

G: Iconic, honestly.

C: And Bobby goes, "Listen to me. You don't want to do this, Sam. I've been like a father to you, boy! Somewhere inside, you've got to know that." And Sam's like, "Yeah! Exactly! That's why I'm doing this!" And he's about to stab Bobby but then Dean's back, and he grabs Sam's arm and then knocks him out. Now Sam's in the panic room, tied up. Classic Sam position to be in. And Dean goes, "I can't keep doing this. What am I gonna do? Tie him up every time he tries to kill someone?" [both laughing] Incredibly funny sentence. [G: Yeah.] Yeah. Which, again, I don't think he would do unless he had a good reason!

G: Yeah, and he had an excellent reason for this one.

C: He has a really good reason. And he goes, "I mean, he's capable of anything" is how Bobby finishes it. And yeah, that's their issue. Just that he was able to try to go after Bobby, etc etc.

G: Does he need to eat?

C: I think so. We've seen him eat, at least, right?

G: Yeah, but does he need to?

C: Well, if he hasn't been sleeping because he doesn't need to, I don't know why he would put up the eating front unless he just wuvs it.

G: No, I suppose if- I thought what you were gonna say is, "If he's not sleeping, he needs to get his energy somewhere."

C: Oh, eat more to keep his body going. Yeah, that's also possible.

G: Does he need to drink water? [laughs]

C: Why not? [G: Yeah.] Yeah. And Dean's like, "I don't know what to do!" But luckily, he doesn't have to struggle any longer, [laughs] because he's the specialest boy in the world. He learned his Aesop fable, and now he will be rewarded for it, just like [both] Jane Eyre and her rich uncle. [G: Literally.] Yeah, except did Jane even learn anything? I think she was always right, [laughs] and always knew everything.

G: No, literally. I still haven't finished it. I don't know.

C: Yeah. So Dean sees Death there, who gets him a special, special bacon hot dog. Death goes, "I'm just gonna have a little treat before I put the ring back on." But he was doing his job, right? People were dying still?

G: I don't actually know. And also, is he alone in this?

C: Yeah, no, because there's a lot of people who die. [G: Yeah.] I don't know and will probably never know. Yeah, he's like, "Yeah, sometimes I wish I just wasn't wearing it. But you understand me now!" And Death goes, "If you could go back, would you have killed that girl without all of your protestations?" And Dean says yes, and Death is surprised and glad to hear it. And he thinks that Dean has learned that messing with the natural order isn't fun when you have to clean up afterwards. And he says that the human soul is very vulnerable and impermanent and strong and valuable, and that's what he learned today! [both laugh]

G: Yay!

C: So true, I guess. And Dean's like, "[teary] You know what? I bet you knew that I wasn't gonna win this bet, and I want you to admit that!" Like, obviously! [both laugh] Do people make bets they think they're gonna lose?

G: He wants Death to admit that "it's been rigged from the start!" which is like, a five-year-old-

C: It's not been rigged. It's not rigged. He read something in your character, and then he made you a bet. You could only think it's rigged if you were like, "This is gonna be so easy!" Why would he think it would be so easy? Because he's stupid? Yes.

So anyway, Death is like, "You know what? I'll just get Sam's soul for you, anyway. [G: Yeah.] Just 'cause well, you know, I fucking hate you guys, but I feel like you guys are figuring something out, and I want you to keep doing it. It's about the souls. You'll understand when you need to." Fucking stupid. Death's like, "Okay, gonna do it now. 75% chance that it works." 25% is if Cas betrays you so horribly, I guess. [both laugh]

They rush down to the basement, to the panic room, and Sam sees Death coming at him with a suitcase. And Sam's freaking out. He's panicking in the panic room. [laughs]

G: Yeah. What else is the panic room for?

C: Yeah, and he's yelling, "Don't touch me! Please don't do this!" It's not very pleasant that this is happening. But yeah, Death is unswayed, and he says, "It might feel a little itchy. Do me a favor. Don't scratch the wall." [G: Yeah.] And Sam, at this point, starts begging Dean, not Death, to make it stop.

G: Yeah, which did make me so miserable.

C: Yeah, yeah. [laughs] Yeah. But it doesn't work, and his soul goes back in. And Sam starts screaming, and the episode ends.

G: Yeah.

C: Ugh!

G: Well.

C: Well?

G: What did we think about this episode? As I've said, I mean, I said I liked it. But from our discussion, it makes it seem like it was ridiculous, but those ideas can coexist, so.

C: Yeah. I think it was pretty good. I liked the Sam portions. The Dean portion's, like, okay, I know where this is going.

G: I think it's hilariously the way it is, you know? And I think some bits of it are very interesting, so there's that. Best Line/Worst Line?

C: My first instinct for Best Line is that as soon as Sam's left alone with Bobby, he goes, "So is this the part where you pull a gun on me and lock me in the panic room?"

G: Yeah, that was pretty good.

C: I love panic room mention. Love it!

G: As I said earlier, I like the "It will feel itchy. Don't scratch it." line. I just think it delivers both a real thing and an abstraction to what is going on in this situation. I do actually have a Worst Line that I felt strongly about. I completely forgot to talk about it earlier, but it's the one where, after he sinks Sam with the stick or whatever it is, Bobby goes, "I was born at night, but not last night." [C laughs] I thought it was so corny. And he was saying it to nobody because Sam's unconscious. [C: Yeah.] And I was like, "You think you're so cool, Bobby." I was a hater.

C: Okay, see, I said the same thing about when Crowley said, "Guess I lost my head" when he beheaded the shapeshifter.

G: Yeah, that's also what I remember. So yeah, maybe Crowley and Bobby are for each other.

C: No, for real. They are perfect for each other. Do I have a Worst Line? I'm sure I do. Oh, let's just go with when Dean tells the doctor, "I'm no germaphobe, but what's up with where you live?" or whatever he says. [both] Spreadsheets.

G: Spread those sheets. What is our- Do we have any stats situation?

C: I think we could give a racism point.

G: Yeah, I do think it's evident enough that it warrants more than a 1, so I would give it a 2.

C: Alright. Slay!

G: But I don't think there's others. I don't think there's like really any homophobia or misogyny this episode.

C: Yeah, I would agree with that. They were pretty normal about Tessa.

G: Shout-out, Sera Gamble!

C: Yeah, [laughs] thank you. Or you know what? Maybe it was. Robert Singer. Have you thought about that? [both laughing] Maybe the great feminist Robert Singer really helped Sera Gamble whittle down the misogyny in this episode that she originally put in.

G: Literally. But I do love that- I love Tessa. The more she's around, the more I love her. I don't know if she's ever gonna be back, but [C: Huh.] you want me to look?

C: I think so because we'd probably see her die, right?

G: I don't know. [both laugh]

C: Alright!

G: You know, I'm not gonna look it up, so we can both be shocked and upset. [C: Yeah.] IMDb?

C: This is liked. [G: This is-] It's my turn.

G: Yeah, it's your turn.

C: Um. 8.9? That might be a bit much. I'll just do it. I'll just say it. I'll just do it.

G: I'll go with an 8.7. [C: Alright.] Holy shit! You got it!

C: Oh my god!

G: It's a 9.1. No, I mean, you didn't get it, but it's a 9.1, so you're closer.

C: Ah! This never happens! [G: Yeah.] Wonderful! I should have gone higher.

G: People love Death and, of course, Tessa.

C: Yeah. Death and his ambiguous accent, where sometimes he's American, and sometimes he's British?

G: I was like, "Wow, he's just like me for real." Yeah.

C: Yeah. And we also get Balthazar this episode, who has a British [G: French.], parentheses question mark, parentheses, dash Scottish dash French accent.

G: Yeah, I suppose so.

C: Somebody's calling Supernatural "SN" for short, instead of "SPN." That feels so wrong to me.

G: Yeah. Parts of here are saying that it's nice that Dean remembered Adam. So true.

C: Yeah. [laughs]

G: What the fuck was Dean even gonna tell Ben about like why he died? [C laughing]

C: Yeah, I don't know.

G: "Hey, Ben, if you're receiving this letter, I'm dead." What a terrifying note to receive. But what even would he say is a reason? He has to, right?

C: He could just lie. He could just say, "I died on a hunt, and I had whoever was with me send this letter because I died. Sorry for shoving you that time. [both laugh] I was a vampire. Bye!" [laughing]

G: Yeah. "This one episode would turn almost anybody into a fan of Supernatural [C: Untrue.] because it's a standalone episode. There are so many dramatic, poignant, and ironic moments. [laughs] [C: What?] It is instantly relatable to almost any viewer, even somebody who has never seen an episode of SPN." [C: Uh-huh.] [laughing] I think that's fundamentally untrue, every part of that statement.

C: Okay, wait, this review from June 2020. "I love Dean, like I have an unhealthy obsession with the character, but my added ten years from 14 and the rewatch has me seriously annoyed. Dean is an idiot. I also hate that Sam gets blamed for the Apocalypse because if anyone should even be blamed, it's Dean." [both laugh] Shout-out to this person! Love this journey!

G: No, literally. I went through that. [C: Yeah.] But I'm a Casgirl, through and through.

C: Yeah. "Also, I feel like I missed something. Like I missed Sam being worse, something happening also. What happened to the demon blood? I just wanted to see more of evil Sam." Love this journey for you.

G: Literally. We need to say goodbye now to soulless Sam. We almost forgot. Goodbye, soulless Sam.

C: Oh. Goodbye, soulless Sam.

G: Will be missed.

C: Yeah. God, I wonder how he's gonna be next episode. [G: Yeah.] Does he remember all the shit he did? [laughs] That he just tried to kill Bobby?

G: Yeah. Also, it's wild that soulless Sam is an eleven-episode arc. It feels so poignant. [laughs] It's the last big thing that happens to Sam.

C: That's not true! Season 8 happens to Sam. Gadreel happens to Sam.

G: Yeah, Season 9 happens to Sam.

C: Season- is it 13 or 12 where there's Apocalypse world and Lucifer?

G: That's true.

C: Happens to Sam. He got kidnapped by the British Men of Letters? [G laughs] That happens to Sam.

G: He gets like, really close-up foot torture, yeah.

C: [laughs] That happened to Sam.

G: He thinks he's talking to God, and he's actually talking to Lucifer. Pretty cool thing to happen to Sam.

C: Pretty cool thing that happened to Sam. He meets Eileen! That happens to Sam.

G: Oh, that's so true! He goes on a date with her.

C: Rowena stuff! That happens to Sam.

G: Literally! He stabs Rowena homoerotically. It's so important. [both laughing]

C: Literally homoerotically.

G: Yeah, it counts as homoerotic.

C: Yeah, a lot of things happen to Sam.

G: Well, anyway, this is one thing that happened to Sam that is over now. [C: Yeah.] Bye, soulless Sam.

C: Goodbye, soulless Sam.

C: And that's it for this episode of Busty Asian Beauties. Next week we will be discussing Season 6, Episode 12-

C: "Like a Virgin"?

G: "Like a Virgin."

C: Maybe this is about Sam being back.

G: I mean, it is the first episode where soulless Sam is now soulled Sam, so who knows? Well, leave us a rating or review wherever you get your poddycasties. [C laughs]

C: Follow us on social media. We are on tumblr at bustyasianbeautiespod.tumblr.com. Our official tag is #BABPOD, B-A-B-POD. Thanks to everyone who's donated to our Ko-Fi at ko-fi.com/bustyasianbeautiespod, which is where our outtakes live, and check out our merch at babpod.redbubble.com.

G: If you have any recommendations for outtakes you want to hear from us, [C laughs] we'd love to do it. We'd love to do it.

C: [laughing] I love that you're still trying to do this!

G: No, because we haven't posted anything in a while in our Ko-Fi.

C: Because we don't chat that much anymore, [laughs] I guess, during the episode.

G: During the ep recording. No, I think we do actually chat. I just delete them now. I'm too lazy to.

C: 'Cause it's not- Yeah, so true.

G: Yeah. I think we've run out of things to talk about with each other. [both laugh] We've already told all of our funny stories.

C: What about Jane Eyre?

G: No, that's true. If you want us to talk about Jane Eyre in the fucking Ko-Fi, we'd love it, I think.

C: Yeah, yeah. If you want me to talk about the webseries The Autobiography of Jane Eyre, also let me know. [laughs]

G: You know, I have been reading a lot recently. So if you guys want to hear reviews of things that I've been reading, I'd love to do it. [C: Yeah.] Yeah. Well, email us at bustyasianbeautiespod@gmail.com. See you guys next time. [both] Bye!

[guitar music]

[bustyasianbeautiespod]

Episode 116: You're Just a Baby in a Trenchie

Today, Crystal & Grey discuss Supernatural 6.12 -Like a Virgin. We talk about: when Cas become part of the Winchester family, Sam's "So get this," and whether dragons are called something else.

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[bustyasianbeautiespod]

While "not wanting to know it has eyes and a soul" does probably play a role in Americans buying pre-prepared fish meat rather than a whole fish, I think the primary reason is just because it's a lot of work and it's gross to prepare a fish yourself

The butcher does it for you! I mean you can also request to do it yourself but generally the seller deguts and descales the fish for you. I also have degutted a fish myself and don't think it's gross. It's a fish. And also, i think the surprise of finding fish eggs in there which is absolutely delicious and a fun little treat trumps, like, the other concerns one may have which i have established is not awful. I also think trying to impose the level of packaging the US has in their supermarkets is a little bit senseless for an archipelagic country with coasts everywhere. Like, the fish was caught this morning. I don't need it vacuum sealed. It's fresh and the bones impart flavor!

-Grey

[bustyasianbeautiespod]

Episode 115: How Dare You Sing a Kansas Song To Me Incredibly Terribly and Maybe Out of Tune

Today, Crystal & Grey discuss Supernatural 6.11 - Appointment in Samarra. We talk about: Chinese supermarkets, the complexity of Supernatural vs. Elmo, and how the only thing Sam did wrong in trying to kill Bobby is not giving an evil villain monologue about it.

Sorry about the audio in this one!

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Transcript

[bustyasianbeautiespod]

Episode 114 Transcript: Deus Ex Machina That Doesn’t Work

[intro guitar music]

G: Hello, it's Grey.

C: Hello, it's Crystal.

G: And this is Busty Asian Beauties, a Supernatural commentary podcast where I, someone who has seen this show many times...

C: And I, someone who only knows the show through social media, discuss every single episode of Supernatural from start to finish. Also, we are both Asian.

G: Well, today, we will be discussing Season 6, Episode 10: "Caged Heat," written by- It says here, “teleplay by Brett Matthews, story by Brett Matthews and Jenny Klein, directed by Robert Singer.” This is a Singer episode. There's one zoom, and I did notice it, and I was like, "Ah! A zoom!"

C: Wait, when was it?

G: I think it was when they're about to go meet Meg, right after they talk to Samuel, in the scene where Samuel is like, "[Samuel voice] I'm gonna bring Mary back, [C laughs] and you cannot stop me." they zoom out of Sam and Dean's face. Lovely!

C: Okay. It's a reverse Robert Singer zoom?

G: Oh, no, no, no! They zoom in, and then they head out of the barn or wherever they are.

C: I see, I understand.

G: And I recognized Robert Singer completely. It was so subtle, too. It was like he was trying to hide who he is, [C laughs] but I will know him wherever he goes, whatever he does.

C: Yeah. Brett Matthews previously did “Live Free or Twihard,” which we did not like. [G: Yeah.] Jenny Klein previously did "The Curious Case of Dean Winchester," which we had mixed feelings on?

G: Yeah, this was the one with the Irish guy, right? [C: Yeah.] Loved him. So yeah, love it completely.

C: Oh, yeah, Sampatrick rights.

G: [laughing] I mean, to be fair, hindsight produces some really good memories. Because when you said "Live Free or Twihard," and you were like, "We didn't like," I was like, "Is that true?" [both laugh] But I was like, "Wasn't that the one where Dean gets turned into a vampire? That's such a fun concept!" And it is such a fun concept.

C: It is a fun concept. Except the rest of the concepts were teenage sex slaves that they made fun of the whole time.

G: Yeah. [laughs] What did you know about this episode before going in?

C: I knew that this was the episode with the Megstiel kiss, which she does it in order to get his angel blade, and that sometime in this episode, Dean has a line for Cas where he's like, "I would have given you an hour to fuck Meg before I killed her." Great. Love it. I knew that there would be some conflict between Crowley and Meg over some sort of political issue in Hell. I didn't know that it was in this episode, but obviously, I've seen "Will you, boy?" [laughs]

G: Of course! That's what makes them good in bed, etc.

C: Literally. Literally. And also, the pizza man. The thing. [G: Yeah.] The beginning of the pizza man- not cold open. The "Then" sequence? [G laughs] The pizza man "Then" sequence. It's here.

G: Literally! So many seasons from now. That's in Season 15, I'm pretty sure. Is that true?

C: It's gotta be 8, right? No?

G: No, that's like, in Season 15!

C: Wait. What was the relevance of the pizza man [laughing] in Season 15?

G: [laughs] Literally nothing! [laughs] It literally is just a scene where Cas goes, "If the pizza truly loved the babysitter," [both laughing] and then, like, what's her name? Ruby opening the door-

C: [laughing] And then a bunch of scenes of Dean specifically eating pizza. [both laughing] [G: The Destiel warriors-] I just feel like if it was Season 15 they would have thrown in a scene of Cas babysitting Nora's baby [both laugh] [G: No, yeah.] as well to really drive it home.

G: Well, we will see you when this cold open happens, and it will surprise us both. [both laughing] It's one of those things that like, if I told someone who is not into Supernatural, they'd be like, "I think you're like looking too much into things." But like, it really did happen on my screen.

C: Yeah, it did.

G: Obviously, you've seen the boob contraption.

C: Yeah, I mean, they did it to Jo and Ruby before. Classic.

G: Yeah. Obviously, you've seen it before. Is that true? Like, you know it happens to Meg.

C: I think I did, but I just didn't really remember it. I just assume every hot woman on Supernatural gets to be in the boobstrap table.

G: Who is evil, yeah.

C: Jo's not evil.

G: Who? Oh, yeah!

C: Didn't they do it to Jo?

G: Is that true?

C: Did they not?

G: I don't know. It's been years since we did that episode, probably. [laughs]

C: True. Whatever it was, it's been years.

G: It's been years, it's been so long.

C: I wonder if there's a page for boobstrap table Supernatural. I'm not getting anything.

G: Yeah. Before we start, I do want to say, I don't like this episode, and Crystal does.

C: Yeah, I do.

G: So that's gonna be interesting. Why do you like it? What are the reasons why?

C: I think that after 6.09, it is a very interesting look into the ways that Sam, being soulless, actually does make him a good hunter, [G: Yeah.] especially in the context of these demons that he seems to relate to in a way and seem to relate to him back. I like Meg, unlike you, and I think the reasons that you dislike her are very good. [G laughs] However, I do wuv her still, so it was good to see her. It was good to see Cas. I liked seeing his silly little face. And yeah, I don't know. It just had two characters that I like, and I thought that there were interesting themes and motifs going on.

G: Yeah. Well, the reasons why I didn't like this episode is that I think I am at a point where I'm just so tired of plot episodes. I want a case episode. And with episodes like this, it feels like there's no like room to breathe, you know? Because there's so many things happening. Actually, this one, there's not a lot that happened. It's all just bullshit.

C: It's one mission.

G: It still feels so rushed and so I don't know, like, "Okay, who give a shit?" [laughs] And I understand that these are essential episodes. We need episodes like this to keep the show plot going, but who give a shit, you know?

C: Doesn't it feel rushed because Cas and Crowley are kind of engineering things behind the scenes anyway?

G: Yeah.

C: It feels off because we revisit this in 6.20, and we're like, "Oh my god! Those weren't even his bones!"

G: Yeah, I suppose so. I mean, I don't know. I just- I hate everyone. I hate Samuel. [C: Yeah.] I hate Dean. I hate Meg. I hate Castiel in this episode. [C: Gasp.] I hate Crowley in this episode. I mean, actually, Crowley and Sam are fine. Samstiel real. No, that's not- Crowstiel?

C: Cram rights.

G: Cram! How can I forget? How dare I? Well, Cram rights. Sam and Crowley are completely fine this episode. Love Sam. Love Sam! Love Sam! Everyone was so fucking annoying, and-

C: Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention. Of course I know that he fucking chewed through his arm to make a demon trap.

G: Yeah, love that. And then the little grin. Love it! Anyway, let's start with our episode. We start with Crowley tied up to a chair, beaten up bloody. But then, obviously, this is not Crowley. This is a shapeshifter, and the alpha shapeshifter that has turned into Crowley. And the real Crowley is going about torturing this guy. And every time that Crowley tortures now, I do always remember when you said, "They always tout him as like, 'He's good at making deals,' etc, and the only deal he makes is like, 'I'm gonna kill you!'" [both laugh]

C: Yeah, yeah, exactly that.

G: And he's going here, "I'm gonna kill and torture you!" and that's the deal.

C: And then he does. He does both of those things.

G: Yeah, I mean, he keeps to his word. We gotta give him that. That's the entire groove of the conversation. Crowley's saying, "Get me to Purgatory. I know you know where it is. I know you can draw me a map," blah blah blah blah blah blah. And the alpha is like, "No, I don't. No, I don't." [C laughs] And then at some point, Crowley says that he has a whole nursery of all the baby shapeshifters, and then he holds up the phone [C: Baby monitor.] or the baby monitor, I think, [C: Yeah.] to make the alpha listen to the crying sounds. But then he says he'll kill them if you don't tell me. And the alpha goes, "Okay!" And then Crowley kills the guy. RIP. Rest in Purgatory.

C: Real. For real. It doesn't matter if you kill an alpha of a species? It's just whatever?

G: Yeah, like, literally. Because they portray these characters as super powerful with- I suppose it's only the vampire that they make it like they have a-

C: The alpha shapeshifter attacks them in- what? 6.02? And there's a whole, "You can't do it. You can't take them down." Yeah.

G: No, what I mean is the psychic connection with everyone, it's only the vampire that they show that about, right?

C: Right, that's true. So it's not like the alpha shapeshifter could call every shapeshifter over to help. [G: Yeah.] But why not?

G: And also, it implies the idea that if the alpha vampire, if he gets killed, it's like losing like a leader for real, [C: Right.] with an impact of losing that, versus the alpha shapeshifter, where it's like whatever. [laughs] Like, who give a shit?

C: Yeah. Was there nothing about like somebody sensing the father or whatever in 6.02 with the shapeshifters?

G: I don't recall, but I don't think so. [C: Okay.] You get a splash screen. We go to Sam and Dean.

C: God! I don't know. I did not like this opening scene. [G: Why?] The guy's just tied up with regular chains. We have whatever Supernatural's stupidass torture thing is. Crowley, at some point, pulls out the world's most boring looking knife, and he's like, [G: Yeah, and he has this whole speech.] "This is the most rare weapon ever, and it can hurt you for real!" Like, okay. Can it look cool at least? It just means that Crowley's entire operation is just he's telling Samuel to capture alphas, torture them, and then hand them over to him for more torture, which isn't even better than Samuel's torture. Is there literally nothing else you can do like? Maybe there's like a scientific fucking test you can do on like a skin sample to like, figure out the ash levels in Purgatory or whatever. I don't care. This is just boring. I don't care.

G: Yeah, it's obviously not working anymore, so like, are they really so fucking clueless about what to do? Zero ideas? Zero further moves to make?

C: Yeah, if torture doesn't work, I'll just torture some more? [G laughs]

G: Literally. And they built an entire compound out of it. It's a whole thing.

C: Yeah. And if the compound's meant to enact, I don't know, psychological torture as well, then I don't really see the point of killing the alpha shapeshifter right now. Killing him means there's literally no further leads that Crowley thinks that he can pursue with this character, and that just doesn't bode well, I think, for this whole plan. And I think it lowers the stakes or just makes it seem less doable, so we're less invested.

G: And it doesn't even feel like the shifter has been there for a long time from what we see. [C: Yeah.] So like, okay. [C: Yeah.] What Supernatural should be doing is better torture, [both laugh] is what we seem to be advocating.

C: Yeah, I think it is [laughs] that if Supernatural must have torture in it at the level that it does, and as the only solution it has, add a little nuance! Add a little flair! [both laugh] Whatever, dumb. And after he decapitates the alpha shapeshifter, he goes, "Oh, I kind of lost my head there." Who is that for, Crowley? Shut up! I don't like you very much. You're annoying.

G: It's for us!

C: Well, he doesn't know we're here.

G: Or does he?

C: Or does he? I'm the one who supposedly likes this episode. [both laugh] I do. Just not this scene.

-

C: Sam and Dean are pulling up to these two demons with a car, and they're bringing in a rugaru. Maybe the alpha rugaru. They want to know where Crowley is and why they can only interact with his henchmen. But you know, it just doesn't work. The demon calls them women in two different ways, and then leaves.

G: No, it's a whole extended bit. He's committed to this joke that like, "Oh, really? Well, maybe you stop being a girl." [C laughs] Like, what is going on?

C: Yeah, yeah. What is going on? I mean, Brett Matthews, the only other thing he's written has also had monsters being more misogynistic than we  usually see them to be. I feel like vampires weren't the level of misogyny that we saw them in “Live Free or Twihard,” so this could just be a continuation of him thinking what a cool, evil thing to say is?

G: It's also like- I also did get a little bit pissed off. Not pissed off, I just rolled my eyes in the scene where the demon is like, saying his magic line that is supposed to impose fear in Sam and Dean's heart or whatever. And then he  changes his eyes to the demon eyes, even though we already knew he was a demon.

C: No, literally!

G: And it's like so fucking corny, tired, and played out. And they played a sound effect of like, "Tuh-tuh!" [C laughs] Like, okay. [laughs] We get it. We don't care.

C: I remember that Christian was possessed by a demon and then you took him away or whatever. That was like, in 6.07, right? That's three episodes ago. If you cared that much, just put it in the then sequence, and then don't do it here.

So Sam and Dean go back to their place, and Dean's just super done with working for Crowley. He mentions that the only thing that's really changed is that now he "needs a daily rape shower," which I think is the start of, though there's also been hints earlier with Crowley saying that he's gonna torture the shapeshifter with a speculum - and I think the demon calling them a little bitch just then - where one of the like ongoing things throughout this episode is like a real, strong focus on the like, demons and sexual assault aspect of demonhood, where a lot of demons assert their power through sexual harassment, and like, I don't know. I think in the past, there was "demon possession is akin to-"

G: As an allegory, yeah.

C: Right. I feel like this episode, it's a little bit more the- I mean, here, it's more the other way around where it's like using rape as a metaphor for interacting with demons rather than using demons as a metaphor for experiencing rape, which I feel like was more how this started.

G: Yeah, yeah.

C: But yeah, I mean, I don't really have a fully-formed thought on that. I think it happens that metaphors end up being two ways sometimes, but I don't know. One of these things is real, and one of them isn't. But anyway, yeah. They get really hard into this thing right now and then yeah, later, I think it's more just rape and demon possession and demons are just two separate things, but rape is a tool that demons use in order to assert power and torture, and all that, which I think we sort of knew already as well. Sam's just like, "Well, we have to keep working for Crowley because we need my soul back." And Dean continues questioning that Sam even wants it. And then Sam suddenly stops replying, and Dean goes over to the other room, and Sam's been knocked out, and then a demon knocks Dean out.

G: Yeah, I do love the scene where Sam disappears. It's like, "Ooh, ominous!" Because a part of me was like, "Wow! He ran off that quick. Good for him!" [C laughs] And I went, "Oh, yeah, they're in the demon show where they get taken by demons. Alright."

-

C: Sam and Dean wake up, tied up to chairs, and Meg is there. She's also going much harder in the sexual harassment, sexual assault talk in this scene, but not in the direct behavior, because I feel like half the time we've seen her, she's straight up sexually assaulted Sam and Dean. But for here, they're clearly doing like a "bark more than her bite" thing where she's really going hard into this because she's nervous, and she's trying to assert some sort of power in the way that we usually see her doing it.

G: Yeah, which Sam points out.

C: Yeah. She's questioning them about where Crowley is, and clearly just upset and frustrated, and really, really needs this information. Or I don't know about "clearly." It's clear after Sam points it out. So yeah, I mean, she straddles Dean's lap, and she starts saying like, "I'll kill you if you don't tell me." But Sam starts laughing, and he says, "Can't you tell? Meg is so fucking furious. If she could kill you, she would have done it by now. She's clearly terrified. I think that she's running from Crowley because Crowley wants to hunt down all of the Lucifer loyalists now." And when Meg asks, "How would you know?" Sam says, "That's what I'd do." Love it! Love it.

G: Yes! Literally boy king of Hell.

C: Boy king of Hell as fuck.

G: He didn't take the job, but he's gonna complain about who the fuck is doing it. Good for him.

C: Exactly. Did we already talk about how, you know, one way of going to Hell and coming back wrong is becoming a demon, and soulless Sam is also a different iteration of that. How- I don't know. How different is a demon from a soulless person in terms of how the Supernatural writers expect them to act or how their minds work?

G: Well, Sam doesn't have any powers.

C: Right, and I guess he also doesn't have any feelings, whereas demons do.

G: Yeah. Meg is explicitly scared, so like, that's a feeling.

C: Right, but somehow, he still ends up at the same place with how Crowley thinks, at least.

G: I think that thought process is more of a- we're just supposed to not really think about it in a "They have the same mindset." [C: Okay, yeah.] That's not what it's supposed to tell us. What it's supposed to tell us is that Sam is willing to put himself in the situation of "Well, if I was doing that, what would I do?" which is like, a little bit of a morbid thought, you know? I feel like perhaps Sam Winchester, with a soul, would still end up with this conclusion if he thought about it, but it's the idea that he thought about it before, seemingly. [C: Uh-huh.] That is the one we're supposed to go like, "Oh, okay." Do you understand what I'm saying? Like, in the past, he-

C: I think so, but I don't think we're supposed to think he thought about this on the spot. I don't know.

G: I think he's like, in his pastime, going like, "What would I do if I was Crowley?" [laughs] And that's supposed to be the thing that bothers us a little bit or something. I don't know. I'm not bothered so like, I don't give a fuck.

C: Because he and Dean have been working for Crowley for a long time, you'd think that a basic part of strategy is for them to think, "If we were Crowley, what do we think we would do?"

G: They are working for Crowley at a different department. [laughs] [C: Yeah, okay.] So fuck knows what they know about the other departments of Hell.

C: No, that's fair. I think what is supposed to be off-putting is that Sam is so sure that he understands Crowley.

G: Yeah, I suppose maybe that, too, yeah. It is the willingness to- For what I was saying, it's the willingness to get to that level of understanding Crowley and what you're saying is like, the understanding itself. [C: Yeah.] Yeah, I think those are similar enough ideas to be able to-

C: Yeah, live together in harmony.

G: I do, I suppose, enjoy a little bit that- Meg says this later. Sam is finally the person that I think Meg wanted him to be.

C: Yeah, in Season 2.

G: And it's because he's soulless, which is like, kind of a slay. I mean, not a slay in that way, but like it's fun to think about. It's a fun thing to think about, and it does bring up the question you were asking earlier, how different is a demon from a soulless person? I have been- This episode brought up a lot of things about how souls work. Sam is different from his soul. A soul is not him. It's just a component, is, I think, what Supernatural is saying, finally. They will say it later with soulless Jack and stuff, but now, the entire conversation, it never is that Sam is down there, you know what I mean? The soul is a completely separate thing. Which just makes you wonder like, why not just put a different soul in him? [C laughing] Why not just put a different guy in there?

C: 'Cause then there'd be a person without a soul, I suppose. But yeah, none of the memories are associated with the soul. They're in Sam's mind. So yeah, why not just put a different soul in there?

G: Yeah. And I mean, it also makes me wonder, so what was- A soul is different from a consciousness, is what Supernatural is trying to say. Like, Sam obviously has a consciousness right now. He doesn't have a soul. So like, I don't know. They are typically together? It's just in special circumstances where they're apart? But that means that they are apart. They are different things, no matter what, if you can separate them in that way. [C: Yeah.] I don't know. It's like, I don't know what Supernatural really is trying to say with all of the soul bullshit. I don't know what this means or what it's supposed to imply.

C: From the last episode, it seemed like all that a soul did was, what? Make you more empathetic and care about being niceys? [laughs] [G: Yeah.] Like, I don't think that's right.

G: Like, what if the person has a soul but doesn't give a fuck about that anyway? Then what is the soul there for? You know what I mean? What is the soul there for?

C: Yeah. And Sam putting himself in Crowley's shoes for like figuring this out is a form of empathy. [G: Is empathy, yeah.] It's just that they've divided things into good empathy and bad empathy [G: It's not niceys.] in Supernatural.

G: Yeah, well, I don't know.

C: The Meg line that you mentioned later where she tells Sam, "Oh, you're missing your soul. I thought you just like, grew a pair," or whatever her exact phrasing was. I did enjoy that. Because I mean, I don't know. During this whole interaction here, I was wondering like, is she gonna know because she possessed him once? She's had a scene post-Season 2 where she tells him like, "I've been inside your sad little head, so like, I know and understand you," and I just feel like they haven't really done much of that with Meg and Sam since. [G: Yeah.] Right now, they are at a point where both of them basically have the same understanding of who Sam is, like who soulled Sam is. Like, she has his memories from when she was in his head. He has his memories from him currently being in his head. And she was very good at acting as him for a week or so, and he did that to Dean for a little while. They have done very similar things with Sam's body or just his whole vibe. But yeah, I don't know. There hasn't been a lot of that in this episode, and I don't think there will be later on.

G: That is an interesting idea, then. If a demon possesses someone, they're possessing their consciousness? But the person inside is also still conscious. [C: Yeah.] But they have access to the memories. So in Supernatural land, memories is different from consciousness is different from soul. [C: Mm-hm.] Wow! There's so many stuff in there!

C: It's a lot of stuff in there.

G: Lot of stuff.

C: Goop everywhere

G: As you said, there's a lot of sexual innuendo- not even innuendo, just straight up. When she's about slit Dean's throat or something, or she's acting like it while straddling his lap, she goes, "Let's end the foreplay. Either you please me or I please myself." and stuff like that. And then they're tied to a chair, so when Dean's like, "Oh, are you gonna untie us?" she goes like, "Well, don't pretend you don't enjoy it" and stuff like that. [C: Yeah.] And then there's also one guy who's really- They're like, "He's really mean-looking," but I don't actually get why.

C: Yeah, he's normal. [laughs]

G: He's normo-schnormo? I don't know. Like later, Sam kills this guy, and he tells everyone, "He was gonna jeopardize this whole thing because he's so intent on killing us, and you know it!" And I'm like, "I don't know it. I don't know it." Maybe they do, but I don't.

C: For real.

C: And I just am pointing that out because I want to contextualize why I don't like Meg. We've had Meg truly for a long time in comparison to any other character in the show, right?

C: I think she's maybe the oldest recurring character.

G: Yeah, aside from like, John Winchester. [laughs] Well, no, she's older than John Winchester. She was up first. [C: Yeah.] I mean, technically-

C: I mean, we see him in the pilot, briefly. [G laughs] But also like, John's dead. We haven't talked to him since Season 2.

G: Missouri is technically recurring, but I don't think it counts because they recur her to kill her.

C: Yeah, she's only here twice.

G: Yeah. But Meg is our oldest recurring character, and I have historically not liked her, and I have always like held out a little bit because- I don't know. Well, you like her. [C laughs] And also, many people do. And also I know that she's gonna have an interesting relationship with Cas. And so I was like, "Okay, let's hold out" because, you know, etc etc. I think I'm at a point where I'm like, I just don't like her, I think. I don't need to hold out. I don't like her. But you know what? I will hold out so I can have the deep satisfaction when she dies, and I'm like, "See? I never liked her all along." [laughs]

C: Wait, so you're gonna hold out on the- You're deciding not to decide to dislike her forever, so that when she dies you can go, "I always disliked her"?

G: Yes.

C: Shouldn't you just be deciding that you dislike her now and retroactively?

C: No no no. Because if I decide now that I don't like her and will never give her the benefit of the doubt, that's going to seep into further stuff. So right now, I'm still like, "Okay, let's give it a shot. Let's give it a shot." I mean, she's going to be a different character in Season 7 and Season 8. That's true. That's a true thing that will happen. She's going to be- she's going to have a different dynamic with everyone, and so I suppose I shall look forward to that, but also there is so much sour taste in my mouth with regards to her that maybe when we get there, I'll just be further annoyed. But let's see.

C: Let's see.

G: I understand that it's like a Supernatural thing, like it's a writer thing, and there are times when especially a female character is written in a way that I'm like, "Oh, I cannot find it in me to like-" or like, "It's so obvious that these are like, writing choices that are like, based on what the writer is and is being misogynistic versus someone actually trying to do a good job of building a character, you know, and portraying a person." With Meg, I find it difficult to do it. Like, "Whatever, this is just like a writer doing something fuck-all." I find it difficult to actually think about her as a character. And so that's my thing. [C: Yeah.] I don't know. You have talked about in the past about her motivations as like, someone who's loyal to Lucifer and how she changed allegiance, seemingly, in a way that's like, she's a person who needs that kind of thing to survive, she needs to have like something to worship. And like, you know, stuff like that. Okay, maybe that's interesting. And it is. It is interesting. It's just when she's actually on my screen, I find her completely unbearable. [C: Yeah.] So like, maybe Meg shall remain as someone that I think about outside of actually watching the show, [C laughs] because when I am watching the show, I'm just like, "Oh, come on."

C: Yeah, I mean, that makes sense.

After Sam realizes that Meg is running from Crowley, he decides that they should team up. He tells her that he and Dean will tell her where Crowley is, and she can go and kill him, but the Winchesters will come with her, and before she kills him, she needs to get him to give up Sam's soul. But he doesn't tell her what it is. [G: He doesn't say it, yeah.] He says, "Wring a little something out of him." Sam asks if Meg is up to the task, and she says that she apprenticed under Alastair in Hell just like Dean, so absolutely yes.

G: And the way she says it is she turns to Dean and is like, "What do you think?" And Dean goes, "Yeah, she can do it." Which is like, again, it's so, corny, tired, and played out because it is in no way influential to the episode. [laughs] We don't really see Meg do anything to Crowley.

C: She tortures Crowley.

G: How?

C: She does the thing where she like, clenches her fist and then he's falling on the ground choking and stuff, and she says the best torture is hands-off!

G: Yeah. And then he pushes her and then shoves the knife up.

C: That's when she's about to kill her. She did get him to give up the information that he was hiding about Sam's soul-

G: Oh, yeah! That's true!

C: - which is that he's been stringing them along for nothing, because he's not planning to give it back.

G: That's true. Good for her.

C: Yeah. [laughs]

-

G: Dean is mad at Sam now as they head up, because, like, "How dare you do that? She killed Ellen and Jo." And Sam's like, "Dean, you know what? I know that she's gonna trick us. So you know what? We'll trick her first." And then he says, "We're going to kill them the second that we're done with them." And by them, I do mean the whole group of demons, not they/them Meg. [C laughs] Dean is like, "Well, what if they kill us first?" And Sam says, "No!" 'Cause we're bringing our little angel on our shoulder, whatever.

C: Yeah, [laughing] who we also brought when Meg killed Ellen and Jo, and who was completely useless the entire episode because he got trapped in holy fire. That one. [G: Literally.] We're gonna be super fine with this plan that did not work last time.

G: Exactly. He's also going to get blasted off this episode, don't worry about it. [both laughing] They said, "We need a deus ex machina that doesn't work." [C laughs]

C: Yeah. It's 'cause God doesn't like him anymore. He's just an ex machina.

G: He's an ex deus ex machina. Well, now, we get a truly iconic, [C: So good.] truly iconic scene where Sam heads out, and he starts praying to Cas. But obviously, Cas DGAF. At first he's just saying, "We need you, pwease." He doesn't say "pwease," but imagine if he did. And then he he pivots and he goes, "Oh, the reason why I'm calling you is because there's this fucking gold box that the Nazis really liked in World War II, and then somebody opened it now, and it burned their face off. Anyway, we think it's the Ark of the Covenant." And then Cas is just there. He's there immediately. And he goes, "Where's the box?" And Sam goes, "Wow! You're so fucking stupid!"

C: And he does say that like that.

G: No, he goes, "I can't believe you fell for that. It's the plot of Raiders, idiot." Love it! That's actually worse than saying, "You're so fucking stupid." [C laughs] Yeah. Anyway, Cas is like, "Why did you call me? I have so many things! I'm so busy." And Sam says- he's really going at it. He's like, "I'm gonna bite your neck off." He goes like, "I don't care if you're losing. I don't care what you're fucking doing. You owe me, and so if I call you, you go down here." And then Cas is trying to explain himself. He's like, "You may not care, but like, believe me," blah blah blah. And Sam's like, "Do you think you're here to negotiate with me? If you can't help us, I will hunt you down and kill you." And Cas through this whole time has been mildly apologetic. [C laughs] He is intent on trying to explain to Sam why he can't come down. He just looks at Sam incredulously, and he takes a pause, and then he goes, "Will you... boy? How?" [C laughs] And Sam goes, "I don't know yet, but I will look into it until I find out, and I don't sleep."

C: That's what makes them good in bed.

G: Yeah, we're gonna reblog that again. We've already reblogged it before, I'm pretty sure. We have got to have.

C: Yeah, probably.

G: But when was it time?

C: I don't know. Soulfisting?

G: No, we didn't. I didn't. We didn't mention it until fisting. Can you believe it?

C: We mentioned it before that, I'm sure.

G: We have, definitely. I think we mentioned it- we probably mentioned it. I don't know. I'll reblog it. Anyway, Cas is like, "Okay, fine whatevs." And they show up, and Dean's like, "Wow, you actually showed up." [C laughs] And he's impressed by this. It does make me wonder how many times they have tried to call Cas that we don't know of, if they're like- Because we only saw- What have we seen of Cas and Dean. And Sam. [both laugh] What have we seen of Cas and Dean and Sam?

C: Ha, haha. In Season 6?

G: Yeah. I think the last time when was the last time we saw Castiel, was it literally the whiskey pouring scene? It must be after that.

C: Wasn't he there in "Family Matters" briefly, to meet with Samuel?

G: Oh, yeah, to check Sam's soul?

C: Yeah.

G: Okay, you're right, you're right. He was there the whole Sam soul debacle. Yeah, and that comes after the one with the pouring the wine or the- not wine. That's too gay. [C laughs] The whiskey. Also gay.

C: No, because that was in the "You Can't Handle the Truth" episode, which is the one right before.

G: Okay, got it. So we have established that Cas doesn't show up. But the last time Dean called him, seemingly, he showed up. And so how many times have they called?

C: Every time he shows up, they're always like, "Thank God. I've been calling you for five million months." so I think they just don't show us the times when they try and fail.

G: Yeah, that's fun. That's fun to think about. Yeah. And I do wonder about the line "You owe it to me" or something.

C: Well, yeah, it's just because Cas didn't answer him for the whole year.

G: But he's not answering again, so like, I don't know. So that's what Sam is talking about?

C: I think so.

G: Do you think Sam has any inkling that like, Cas left his fucking soul behind?

C: I don't think so, right? Because there's the beautiful, beautiful Sastiel scene of, "Cas. Did you leave my soul behind-" Oh, no, sorry. "Cas. Did you bring me back soulless... [both] on purpose?"

G: Ah, love it! I love it!

C: So good. That's what makes them good in bed. [laughs] [G: Literally.] Yeah, I do wish that- I know the point of the whole 6.20 reveal is that it's a big old twist, but like, I just I wish I knew the details of whatever the fuck was going on with Cas now, so I could analyze his motivations better because I only know half-things.

G: Yeah, I mean, as I've been saying since the beginning of this damn season, it's such a brave season to do. After your blowout season that was supposed to be the end of the show, you're like, "We're gonna go in. We're gonna tell the audience nothing." [laughs] Sam is soulless? You're not going to find out until later. Cas is doing fuck-all shit and is collaborating with Crowley? Literally twentieth episode of the season. It's like, they literally did not give a fuck. And I commend that.

C: I agree.

G: I have to put some respect to it.

C: I think it's good plot stuff, and Sera Gamble probably knew that she was going to be disliked as a showrunner, and she would have to prove herself, and she still stuck to her guns on this.

G: Yeah. And I commend that. It's also just fascinating because they decide if a season's gonna continue not that late in the game, you know? And so if it's like 16 episodes through the season, the audience is still like, "This kind of sucks, man! We don't know anything, and the plot doesn't make sense," that's going to hit your ratings, and it's going to hit your chances of renewal. [C: Yeah.] I wonder if it was like, they were already given Season 6 and 7. Yeah, I'm not actually particularly clear on the renewal situation of Supernatural. But I mean, I think we generally do know for a fact that they were in danger in Season 7. People say that. If I may, I don't like, allegedly, Season 6 and 7, and I have said this for a long time, like, I don't like it. I think I do like that this writer who has been here the entire time- She's been here since Season 1, right? [C: Yeah.] Sera Gamble? I respect-

C: She Andreaversed.

G: Yeah. Oh my god! Should I just keep on using the word "respect"? [both laugh] Well, I commend that she decided that "The show that I entered is Season 1 of Supernatural, and I'm going to try to get it back to at least something akin to the groundedness of those seasons." And like, obviously, it's difficult to go back given what happened in Season 5, but I like that they're trying to make it more here, you know? It's here. It's happening here. And it does feel a lot less like Sam and Dean are pawns the way they were in Season 4 and 5. So yeah, I don't like- [C laughs] I still think I don't particularly enjoy it. And I definitely think that if you're watching it live, it's difficult. It's a difficult watch. Watching it live, not knowing what will happen next. But I commend the bravery of doing a show that's potentially bad and kinda is. [C laughing] Like, good on you. It's just- What I'm trying to say is, I see why this is the direction that is being taken by this particular showrunner who has been here this whole time, and I understand, and I commend the vision.

C: Yeah, yeah, agreed.

G: When Dean is like, "Wow, can't believe you got him back," Sam is like, "Oh, you know. It's because we're besties." [C laughing] And are they? That's what makes them good in bed.

C: Funny as hell. And I assume Cas doesn't contradict him. Cas isn't like, "Noo, Dean! He said he was gonna kill meee!"

G: What if he's like, "No, Dean. Sam's actually threatening to kill me. We still have the most profound bond. Don't worry about it!" [C laughs]

C: Yeah, but I think he isn't telling Dean because if he says, "I only came down for the Ark of the Covenant," Dean's gonna be pissed at him, too, and he needs at least one person on his side when Sam tries to kill him.

G: Yeah, good for him. Quick thinking on his part. [C laughs] Well Cas says that Crowley is hidden from him because he tries to summon him. Not summon, he tries to location spell him. So they're like, "Okay, fine. We have to actually investigate for real." So they go to Samuel's place, the one that we saw Dean in in the past, or the one he tried to sneak in in in the past. [laughs] "In in in the past." But Samuel shows up and is like, "Well, what the hell are you guys doing here?" And they say their intention, but Samuel's like, "No, I'm not gonna join you. I'm gonna keep Crowley safe." And Dean is confused because "We're your grandkids." [C laughs] [C: Stupid as fuck.] And Samuel says the most interesting thing later, where he's like, "What the fuck is that even supposed to mean?"

C: Yeah. For real.

G: "Like, who are you, really?" And I'm glad someone is brave enough to ask this question. [C laughs] I still hate Samuel to my core, but I'm glad he asked it. And Sam says like, "No, please help us because it's the only way to get my soul back." But Samuel keeps denying it. And Dean asks Cas to leave! He's like, "Excuse yourself," and Cas does.

C: He was mid-battle. Did Cas just go- I don't know. It's so wild to me that Cas spends any time down here.

G: Cas literally just turned on invisibility. He's still there. He's just like, "To make them comfortable, I've just become invisible." [C: Real.] But Dean tells Samuel, "You owe us an explanation!" etc etc. I was supposed to quote the movie, but I forgot the actual lines. No. Oh, it's a Filipino movie. [laughs] There's a Filipino movie where they're breaking up, and the guy goes, "I deserve an explanation. I deserve an acceptable reason!" and it's a very famous thing to say here. Anyway, he says that, exactly word-for-word. [C: So true.] The reason he gives is like, "You know, we're your family, and it's something Sam really needs. If you don't want to help us, fine. But I deserve an explanation and an acceptable reason for why you don't want to." [C: Real.] Truly mind-boggling thing happens next.

C: Did you not expect this? I was like, "This is what it is."

G: No, it's just so absurd. [both laugh] It's so absurd! He takes a picture of Mary as we know her from the flashbacks, and he's like, "You know, Crowley promised that he's going to drag Mary from Heaven [both laughing] onto Earth. He's gonna give her back to me."

C: "And also, I don't give a fuck about my wife."

G: No, he has a wife. That's a crazy one. [C: Yeah.] Has a wife. What is this? What is this? [C laughs]

C: I mean, literally the exact thing I expected Supernatural to pull. Of course.

G: An absurd thing he says is, "You know how to live without her. I don't." She's your child! Did you not have a life?

C: You had a lot of years.

G: Did you not have a life prior to having her? It's crazy! [C: Yeah.] I understand losing a child, blah blah blah, [C laughs] but to make it seem like, "Oh, you only lost your mother! I lost my child!" is an insane thing to say to your grandkids.

C: Yeah, I guess the point is that they had time to move on and he never did, but like, phrase it otherwise.

G: Dean can say, "Well, you had time with her, at least. You had twenty years or whatever, and I had zero." No, he had four. Well, Sam should butt in and go, "And I had zero, so Dean should shut the fuck up."

C: Yeah. "But also, I don't care right now." [both laugh]

G: Literally. He's just channeling a memory that he had. But anyway, it's just- it's like, you know, a whole thing. And Dean tells Samuel off specifically about wanting to bring back someone dead because he says like, "It's never gonna work out. And it's never- It's a wrong thing to do. And you have to learn from our experiences," etc. And he goes like, "Oh, this is like our Achilles heel. I didn't know it ran in the family." Which, I don't know. Every time they try to refer to Samuel as their family, it's just so annoying. [C laughs] Like, okay. He's your grandfather. Okay. Who give a shit?

C: Yeah. He also said, "We will figure something else out," so like, what do you mean by that? [both laugh]

G: She's literally in Heaven.

C: You just said that you shouldn't bring people back from the dead, right? What's the else you're gonna figure out?

G: He could also just kill himself. [C laughs] He already knows that Heaven exists.

C: Yeah, he was vibing there, but they're in separate rooms, I suppose.

G: Yeah, he's like, "Yeah, I mean, the thing is, when I die, my soulmate is my wife, so we're just gonna be together, anyway. So might as well just have Mary who gets pulled down here." [C: For real.] He doesn't listen to Dean, and we just end with Dean telling him off. So they head out

-

G: We get the scene where Cas is watching pornography. [C laughs] You know, I'm so uncomfortable saying the word "porn," but I love to say the word pornography. It really flows out of the mouth.

C: It is a good word.

G: Yeah, it is a good word. Cas is watching pornography, and it's on the TV, and it's a fascinating scene. I was like- Okay. So the situation is, he's watching in front of the TV. He has his little head tilt going on. And can I also say before this, every time Cas walks in this episode, and he's beside Sam and Dean, he looks so ridiculous. Like, he does genuinely look like he hasn't been in a body for a quote-unquote "year" or whatever. And it's so fun. But also, I think Misha Collins just not- I don't know what's up with him, but it's fun to see like on your screen. But anyway-

C: Are we seeing the beginnings of his need for hip replacements?

G: Does he really? Did he have a lot of hip replacements?

C: I think he had some sort of hip-related thing. I don't know. I remember there being jokes going around, at least.

G: Oh, yeah, I remember the jokes, but I don't know if they're based on a reality.

Sam and Dean are off doing their homework, and Cas is sitting in front of the table. He tilts his head. He goes, "It's very complex. If the pizza man truly loves this babysitter, why does he keep slapping her rear." [both laugh]

C: Iconic!

G: And then he goes, "Perhaps he's done something wrong."

C: Oh, he's insane! I love him!

G: Yeah, I do love to see it. I think they really push it a little bit later. I'm just like, "Oh, whatever." But I think- and the way Dean responds is also so fascinating.

C: No, I know. What was that?

G: So Dean goes, "You're watching porn. Like, why?" And Cas is like, "I mean, it's on the TV. It's what's in there." And then Dean goes, "You don't watch porn in a room full of dudes, and you don't talk about it." And then later-

C: And he goes, "Room full of dudes." So like, if it was women, it would be fine? What are you saying? Just that it's gay?

G: I mean, there are, I think, instances where  people watch porn together before having sex. So like, I think he's thinking like, "We're not about to have sex, [C laughs] so you shouldn't be watching."

C: Is that real? Is that what's going on, really?

G: People watching porn as like, foreplay? Yeah!

C: No, no, no, I'm saying, is that what Dean means? Because I don't know. Don't people talk about watching porn with their friends and just jacking off together as well?

G: I think some people just also jack off together as well. I mean, have you seen the Beatles? Everyone has seen the Beatles.

C: I don't think I've seen the Beatles. They were a little dead before my time, or not performing, at least.

G: Well, you have seen them in your mind's eye, I'm sure.

C: Jacking off together. Yeah, of course. [G laughs]

G: Yeah. And yeah,"You don't talk about it." You don't talk about porn? You definitely talk about porn. I don't know. Do you? Do you? I don't know.

C: Do I?

G: No, no, no, just in general. Like, "you," general. [C: Yeah.] You do. [C laughs]

C: I think you, general, does as well, but Dean doesn't, I guess.

G: Yeah, he doesn't. And then a truly- So Samuel comes in. He knocks first, and then they open the door.

C: Cas also has a boner. That's important.

G: Oh, yeah, yeah, he looks down, and he's like, "Huh?" And Dean's like, "Well, now he's got a boner." I can't believe he's horny in a room full of dudes! And then Samuel knocks, and Dean, instead of turning off his fucking television goes to open the door first. [C laughs] And then Samuel's like, "Oh, so like you guys are just watching pornos now with angels?"

C: And then Sam turns it off.

G: Yeah, Sam goes over to turn it off, but before that, Cas goes, "We're not supposed to talk about it." [C laughs] It's just a fascinating, fascinating exchange.

C: Yeah, I don't even know what to say about it. It's just- Yeah.

G: I also don't know.

C: It's so important, but I don't know why or how. [both laugh] Library of Congress, for real. Library of Sexual Congress, etc etc.

G: Yeah, and I do find it fascinating. He doesn't seem to have been watching full-on penetrative sex.

C: Right. It's the spanking right now.

C: It was like foreplay spanking or something.

C: Well, he could be doing the speaking while fucking her, I suppose.

G: Also, I mean, the line "If the pizza man truly loves the babysitter."

C: No, no. What were they saying earlier that implies that?

G: Or were they just having sex, and Cas was like, "They must be in love!"

C: Be in real, true love! Aw! [G laughs] [G: Anyway, yeah.] The "perhaps she's done something wrong" is very interesting to me, too. Just that like, under true love, corporal punishment purely because you think someone's done something wrong and you want to hurt them is fine.

G: No, yeah.

C: Shoutout to "Point of No Return," I guess!

G: What is "Point of No Return"? [laughs]

C: Where he beats Dean up in the alley? [G laughs]

G: So true.

C: Should I not be making that comparison? It does seem a bit trivializing.

G: No, no. I just did not expect you to make a Destiel joke, I suppose. [C: Oh.] You're still in my mind a Destiel hater, so.

C: I mean, I am. But the fact that I hate it doesn't [G: Mean it's not true?] stop the fact that it's real. [laughs]

G: Literally. And this is one of the horrible things of life.

C: Yeah, there are canon ships that I don't like, and Destiel is basically a canon ship that I don't like,

G: Yeah. And you basically don't like it.

C: Yeah. [laughs]

G: And also the fact that they end it with that bit, with Cas going "We're not supposed to talk about it" is also a little bit wild. But he does talk about it later. He goes, "I learned that from the pizza man."

C: Well, it's because the room wasn't full of dudes.

G: Well, it was full of two dudes.

C: Yeah, but I guess it wasn't purely dudes there.

G: Yeah. At what ratio [C laughs] of dude to not-dude do you need to have?

C: I think it's the opposite of whether you use the male or female ta in Chinese. I think one woman's presence automatically un-gays it.

G: It's how in Spanish, their they is like ellos the moment you have one singular man in there, yeah.

C: Yeah, but the opposite, yeah.

G: Yeah. Samuel was like, "You know what? I had a change of heart. So this is what Mary would want." And then he shows them the map of where Crowley is. He still tells them, "I wish you wouldn't do this," but Sam invites him, and he goes, "Nuh-uh! I'm not suicidal," is what he says. And so they head out to meet Meg's team.

-

C: She's outside, and she greets Cas. She goes, "Remember me? I sure remember you, [both] Clarence." Agh!

G: I I would say, Meg, I commend and respect the nickname game. [C: Yeah.] It's very fun. I have not even actually seen It's a Wonderful Life.

C: Nor I.

G: Yeah. [laughs] Do you remember that description that was like- What's his name? What's the name of the guy in It's a Terrible Life?

C: It's a Terrible Life or It's a Wonderful Life?

G: It's a Wonderful Life. That one description that's like, "He's having such a horrible time. He's going to kill himself, [C laughing] and it's Christmas!" And that's so important.

C: God, that is so funny.

G: "George Bailey has so many problems he is thinking about ending it all. And it's Christmas!" [both laughing] Oh, I love it.

C: Cas immediately goes, "Why are we working with these abominations?" Hope for Sastiel and Megstiel here? And yeah, she just goes, "That's hot," etc. And they just talk for a bit and solidify the plan. Meg's gonna go here to kill Crowley. Sam and Dean are gonna go with her. And Sam says that she needs to give him back Ruby's demon knife, which I forgot that she has. And he uses it to kill that demon who apparently hated them so bad but nobody could tell. And Sam says that it's because he was gonna fuck up the mission because he hated them too much, and then he keeps the knife, and Meg doesn't like this, but just keeps on trucking.

So Dean's about to head out, and he's talking to Cas. And he says, "You know, Cas, you could help." Cas is so busy! Cas is so busy. Why is he even- Yeah, okay, whatever. I don't understand why he's here.

G: Dean's like, "Cas, you can go co-host in my podcast." [laughs]

C: Literally, literally. But yeah, he's not helping with packing.

G: Would Team Free Will be podcasters? An important question. Everyone seems to be a podcaster these days, allegedly. People say that a lot, so probably.

C: Sure. Why not? I mean, you know who would be podcasters? The Ghostfacers.

G: I mean, I assume they already are. [C: For real.] I assume they have a podcast that has been abandoned for seven years, perhaps.

C: I believe it. And Cas says, "I'm ambivalent about what we're attempting" because he thinks that if they take Sam's soul back, Sam will just straight up die because his soul's been-

G: No, he says, "Or worse."

C: Or worse, he won't die, but he'll be so so upset. He'll be thinking about ending it all, and it's Christmas! [both laugh] [G: Yeah.] So yeah, Sam's soul has been tortured by Michael and Lucifer for over a year, he could be in so horrible psychic pain, etc. And Dean's like, "But he could also be fine?" [G laughs] And Cas is like, "No, but sure, if you say so." And Dean's like, "Well, if he's not fine, then you fix him." And Cas is like, "I don't think I can." And Dean's just like, "I don't give a fuck about that. It's gonna happen, and you're gonna fix him, and we need his soul back because I hate him right now!" And Cas goes, "Of course. Or we fail, and Sam suffers horrifically." Pretty funny 'cause the whole time, Dean's being like a total asshole from like what he knows, but actually, [laughs] Cas is responsible for much of this. [G: Literally.] So yeah, he probably does feel bad for real, or should feel bad for real. But also, if he didn't do anything, both Sam's, I don't know, body and soul would be down there, so like, honestly, whatever. Cas did the best he could.

G: Also, it is hilarious the way they make you aware that Sam is listening in, where Dean heads off, and then there's an ominous figure in the back, and it slowly, slowly focuses on hi, and it's Sam doing a Kubrick stare. [C: So true.]

-

G: They head out, Meg only. Her other demons are not there anymore. Sam, Dean, and Cas, they're like walking through hallways and stuff, and eventually, they see somebody in a cage, I think.

C: Yeah, apparently it's the djinn from 6.01 who was the waitress who gave Dean her number? [G: Oh!] I didn't know that, but the transcript says so.

G: Oh, interesting! But anyway, they end up in a hallway when they suddenly hear some noise, and they realize that these are hellhounds, so they end up in a room to hide themselves, and they have a salt line and everything, but when they're inside they're like, "Okay, well, we're trapped in this room. What now?" And Meg goes like, "Okay, well, there's so many hellhounds, and they're all gonna kill us, so what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna fucking get out of here." [C laughs] And so she tries to leave her body, and then it doesn't work. Just doesn't work, straight up. And I will admit, she does look so good in this scene. [C laughs] She looks amazing. And by amazing, I mean incredibly hot. [C: Yeah.] And the way the camera pans up in preparation for the smoke and then stops there, and it's just her with her mouth open. Well, whatever. [both laughing] Anyway. Apparently, it's like a Crowley spell or something. That's what they say, right?

C: Yeah. Cas is like, "I don't know why, but just for some reason, I feel like maybe Crowley - who I don't know - put a spell in this area so that demons can't leave their bodies. Weird!"

G: Sam takes the knife out and then he tells Meg, "You can see them, right? You have the knife." What happens? Meg tells him like, "No, you take the knife. I have my own thing." And what she does is she grabs Cas, then pushes him up against the wall, and then they start kissing, and she sneaks her hand into his coat, and then Cas flips her over and they kiss some more, and Sam and Dean are watching in the background, but mostly Dean. We only get Dean reaction. Is that true? Do we get a Sam reaction?

C: No, we get a shot.

G: We get one, yeah? Anyway, Meg's like, "Wow! What the hell? Guess again" or whatever. She doesn't say that. And Cas says, "I learned it from the pizza man."

C: Meg says that she feels "so clean." Also, when she was reaching into Cas's coat, she was taking his angel blade.

G: I said that.

C: You said that she put his her hand inside his coat, and then he flipped her over.

G: Oh, sorry. Well, yeah, it was to take the angel blade, and now she has it.

Dean's like, "Is that gonna work?" And she's like, "Let's find out, baby." And they head out.

C: Yeah. Megstiel kiss, scene of all time to me. But.

G: Do they have another kissing scene?

C: I don't think so. They had the almost in the episode where she does kill Ellen and Jo, and then they're maybe gonna fuck in Season 8, but then she dies! [G: RIP.] RIP. So yeah, I don't know. I think- Okay, with the "I learned that from the pizza man." And then, later on, Cas was like, "What do you mean you would have let me had an hour with her? For what?" [laughs] Like, fascinating things going on in Castiel sexuality studies right now. [G laughs]

G: Yeah. What what do you have to say about it?

C: I mean, okay. Like Meg, you know, historically weaponizes her sexuality in order to get what she wants. And this is the only case where she's seen somebody respond-

G: Someone take her seriously.

C: Yeah, well take her seriously and also respond in a way where they're both on equal footing about it, I guess. She doesn't end up like, "the winner." She in fact ends up feeling "clean." His angelness or whatever has permeated into her physically or whatever. And I don't know. I think that that is interesting, and it's the fact that it seemingly only works because Cas isn't into it? Or I don't even know what I mean by that. But like, I don't know. I feel like I think it's like Cas isn't engaging in it the way other characters have because of- I don't know what I mean. Do you know what I mean? He has a different relationship to sex than these other characters do. So he's responding to something that was sort of intended as a weaponized sexuality/maybe assault situation differently as a result, in a way where he has quote-unquote "won." Does that make sense?

G: Yeah, I suppose. I feel like there's more to it.

C: I think I think there is too, but I just don't know what it is.

G: I think it's the fact that this she has been using this to assert power, and in this moment, it's not that she's powerless, but she's taken aback, and that is like, something. Because the point of it is the predictability on her part-

C: Yeah, that it'll work how she expects it to, and it doesn't. Something surprising occurs.

G: And I think it works because Cas- you know, I don't think it works because Cas is an angel because we've met other angels, and I don't think it will work on them this way. So I guess it works because it's Cas, and they are really pushing with the "clueless about humanity" thing with him, which they don't push with other angels, definitely not.

C: Yeah, whatever. Shoutout to the post that says that Meg probably just thought that Cas was into guys starting from this episode, and that he made out with a real pizza man, so true.

-

C: They start heading further into the building, and then Cas gets fucking sigiled away by Samuel.

G: Who has betrayed them!

C: Dean's so upset that Samuel betrayed them. And then Crowley shows up and says, "Hiii. I'm gonna kill both of you." I do wonder how the Cas-Crowley team up works here. Was he gonna kill them for real? They probably would have died for real in the situations they were put in.

G: Do you wanna know? Do you wanna know for real or?

C: Oh, sure.

G: Crowley kind of spares Sam and Dean pretty much only by Cas's vehement, "No, you have to!" about it, but generally, he's like, "Oh, we should just kill them." [C: Real.] So like at this point, I think he was like, "Yeah, no, we're going to kill them for real" because Cas is not around to tell him off about it.

C: Sam and Dean get put in separate little jail cells where we saw other monsters being held by Crowley before. Meg kills all the hellhounds, so the angel blade does work, but then the demon possessing Christian gets her

G: Oh, that's Christian! You're right!

C: Yeah, so true. Samuel shows up to talk to Dean, and only Dean. [laughs]

G: He literally DGAF about Sam. That's his buddy!

C: Yeah, they were hunting together for a year! They seemed like they were pals.

G: I guess he was like, "Well, Sam's soulless. Who GAF?"

C: I guess. Not nice!

G: Not niceys.

C: And Dean's just like, "I hate you. You're a liar. You don't even put blood first, unlike my dad!" And Samuel says, "Mary is like my straight-up daughter, dude." [laughing] And then he says that Dean sold out Mary by- What? Not taking her down from the ceiling when he was four? [laughing]

G: No, literally- [laughing] That was also my first instinct. I was like, "Oh. What?" But I think what he's trying to say here is that "You traded Mary's soul for Sam," which is factally untrue, because Mary, I reiterate, is in Heaven, and Sam's soul, I reiterate, is in the cage with Lucifer. So.

C: [laughing] Real. Okay, that makes more sense. I was shocked at this one.

G: I was also. [both laughing] Yeah, "It was her or Sam, and you chose Sam." Crazy! I was actually trying to do the calculation in my head when this scene was happening on my screen. I was like, "Wait. So like, is he saying that when Dean grabs Sam out of the burning house, he should have grabbed Mary instead?" [C laughs] That's kind of an insane thing to say. But no, he's saying an even more insane thing to say.

C: No, I think the other thing's more insane. I think this one makes sense. You're going against Crowley because you care about getting Sam's soul back more than Mary coming back.

G: No, but "You sold out your own mother"? She doesn't even want to be here. Does she want to be here?

C: I don't know if- I mean, if he's heard about Heaven kind of sucking from Sam or Dean at this point-

G: He knows that.

C: - he could just assume. Yeah, he was there also.

Dean's like, "I can't believe you chose demon over your grandsons," and Samuel says, "I don't even know what Sam is. I'm not gonna protect him. And you? You're a stranger. No, really, tell me. What exactly are you supposed to be to me?" Kind of a giant slay and so correct.

G: Yeah. Well, because it's coming from someone who just said an completely unreasonable thing. It's like, "What?"

C: True. True. Not the best candidate for this line, I suppose.

G: I do love Dean's reply. Love it.

C: Do you? I think that he's a silly man.

G: I love that he says that "I'm the guy you never want to see again [C: So true.] because when I make it out of here, the next time you see me, I'll be there to kill you." He's really going at it. And Samuel- honestly, a little bit scared, goes like, "Don't think there's gonna be a next time." And Dean goes, "Whatever gets you through the night," which I did enjoy a little bit. A fun little threatening situation against your grandfather. Let's go.

C: Yeah, I do think that it's fun in terms of seeing how Dean has completely let go of the "we're your family idea" now. There's a few scenes that are intercut. Sam, Dean, and Meg are all being put through situations. [G: Yeah.] So Dean's situation is that he's taken to a room with two ghouls who are hungy. They're trying to eat him, and he's weaponless. Meanwhile, Sam is preparing for demons to come into his cell by biting into its arm at the wrist really really really hard until it bleeds, and then later, when two demons come into his room, they step in, they realize they can't move, and they realize that Sam Winchester is so tall that he was able to paint an entire devil's trap on the ceiling, using just his arm blood. [laughs] [G: Love it!] And at this, he grins, and you see the blood in his teeth, and it's so wonderful! And yeah, he manages to get into Dean's room and kill the ghouls.

Meanwhile, Meg's situation is that she is, of course, on the fucking boobstrap table. You may remember the boobstrap table from- I don't know. Every other time a woman got tortured in Supernatural? Did a woman ever get tortured normally in Supernatural? She could have just been chained up like the alpha shapeshifter in the beginning scene. The alpha shapeshifter should have been on the boobstrap table. Christian is torturing her with a knife. Meg is trying to stay stoic, and she's trying to make sex jokes at Christian to again, you know, assert control over the situation and all of that, but it is not working, especially because Christian is responding in turn. We learn that Meg's body is a girl from Cheboygan who moved to LA to be an actress, and I guess it's implied that while she was there, she was raped or went through some sort of similar violence. He's trying to- I don't. What is he even trying to get out of her? He says that Crowley "wants to know everything." Like what, though?

G: No, I don't actually know the purpose of this scene.

C: Yeah, nor I. Who knows? They just love the boobstrap table so much. She's being tortured, and then she starts laughing really hard, and then Dean stabs Christian, or his body, from behind, thus fully, 100%, for sure killing his cousin. [G laughing]

G: Love it!

C: "If Samuel's not my family, then neither is Christian"? What's the reasoning here?

G: I don't know. I mean, to be fair, I didn't recognize him as Christian. Number two, I don't understand the purpose of this scene like at all, the entirety of it.

C: Yeah. It existed, and it happened. Dean unties Meg, and they head out. There's a brief scene where Crowley is about to torture Brigitta, the djinn from earlier in the season, and we're supposed to feel bad for her, and I don't know why we're supposed to feel bad for her but not any of the other monsters like. Didn't she kill Dean's best friend who he just let go? His neighbor? Is it- she's a woman, and they need Crowley to look bad? Why this?

G: I mean, I also don't know. And it's also just so weird because Crowley has been, you know, up against alphas and stuff, and that's all we've been up against this whole time. [C: Right.] And then suddenly, the pivotal moment is him going, "Oh, so how about you tell me what your boss is up to?" [laughs] Like, what? What is this about?

C: I don't know. And he's also being menacing in like a sexual harassment-y way just in keeping with the themes and motifs of the episode, and also just I guess how he is as a character as well. But yeah, whatever. Somehow, this is a scene that exists. And then, while he's trying to menace her, a fire alarm goes off.

-

G: And so he heads out. It's, you know, Dean sounding the alarm. Meg tries to starts torturing him. Sam asks for what he wants. And this is the part where Sam's like, "I need my soul back," and Meg is like, "Oh! You lost it! What a cool situation!" And Crowley first starts going, "No." but then he goes, after some more pain, that he can't because he just can't do it. And he says, "I was lucky to get this much of you out." I love a cover-up. [C laughs] He says, "Michael-" they always point out that like it's both Lucifer and Michael, and at some point, somebody says that Sam is their only plaything in there. And I'm like, Adam is also literally there. [C laughs] [C: He is.] But okay. Crowley says, "And also, I don't know why you want it back. It's going to, you know, leave you a drooling mess" is what he says. Meg goes like, "Yeah, he's probably right." [both laugh] But Sam has given up, and Dean insists, but Sam has given up. And so now it's Meg's turn, and she wants to kill Crowley, so she heads into the Devil's Trap and then tries to stab Crowley, but then Crowley flicks her against a wall or something.

C: No, I think he just flips her.

G: And then he breaks the Devil's Trap with the knife by flicking it up against it. Very fun. And then Sam and Dean are now against the wall, and then this is all happening, he's trying to give a speech, but then Cas appears by the door, [C laughing] looing all heroic! And he's carrying a little bag, a little sack, even. And he's like, "Leave them alone." [C laughs] He's really putting on the drama, the drama of it all.

C: Obsessed with this guy.

G: And Crowley goes like, "Haven't seen you all season," which is very fun. Yeah, Cas says, like, "This is what I'm gonna do to you if you don't put the knife down." He lifts up a skull, and Crowley's like, "Oh, it's not possible that you have my bones." Cas is like, "No, you should have hidden them better."

C: Don't we literally know where they are? [laughs] Didn't we just go to where they were?

G: No, Crowley got them, put them in a bag, and then hid them.

C: Okay, wait. So when Sam and Dean were- Like, after "Weekend at Bobby's," he took the bones out?

G: That episode ends with Crowley taking the bones. [C: Oh, okay.] Anyway, there is this very banger scene where Cas goes like, "So can you restore Sam's soul or not?" And Crowley goes, "No, I can't." And Cas, with no hesitation, incinerates quote-unquote "Crowley's bones."

C: [laughs] He's so funny.

G: Yeah. And Meg also disappears instantly. And this is when Dean goes, "Oh, she's smart! Well, I would have given you an hour with her before I killed her." And Cas is like, "Why? Why would I want that?"

C: Yeah. Well, first, extremely gross sentence from Dean. Secondly, love Castiel sexuality studies.

-

C: They're outside of the prison, and Dean's like, "Cas, you're so cool! Thank you! And if there's anything we can do to help you, now that you helped me, I actually care about you for a little while until I'm mad at you again for not helping me!" [G: Yeah.] And Cas says, "There's nothing you can do to help me. I wish circumstances were different. Much of the time, I'd rather be here." Heaven must suck! [laughs] [G: Literally.] It must be so bad. I don't know. He's being very sad and gay in that line, though. It's sweet.

G: He has a very sad, forlorn face. He looks up longingly. It's a whole thing.

C: Yeah. And Dean's just like, "Cas, no, it's okay. I get it! You're going through soo much, and you're soo brave and soo strong. [G laughs] And we're your breasties!" [both laugh]

G: No, literally.

C: He says all of that, exactly like that, and Cas tells Sam that "We'll find another way." Incredibly funny. [G: Yeah.] Yeah. And then Sam just says, "I hate you! I hate you! I hate you! I don't care! If you actually wanted to help, you would go back and kill every single monster in Crowley's prison." And Cas goes, "Okay." And then he does?

G: And then he disappears!

C: Yeah. He disappears to go there, to do it, I assume.

G: Yeah, no, I think what I understand here is he was like, "I'm gonna help you, Sam." And Sam's like, "You know how you can help? This way." And he's like, "Okay, nevermind." And then he leaves. And that's important as well.

C: Oh! I-

G: No, I'm just joking. Obviously, he went there and slayed the monsters.

C: Okay, yeah. Sorry to all of those people in that prison. Did he even, though? Like, did he go over, Crowley was there, and he was like, "Hi, good job on the community theater, Cas!" And Cas goes, "Oh my god, thanks! You really think I did a good job?"

G: No, definitely, that happened.

C: "Sam told me to kill all these monsters that you're torturing," and Crowley's like, "Well, can you not?" And Cas is like, "Yeah! Of course I wouldn't do that to you!" And then he left?

G: Yeah, exactly. That's exactly what happened.

C: Well, good for them. And Dean's like, "Hey, whatever, you know, Sam? Buck up. We'll get your soul!" And Sam says, "No, I don't want it! Everyone says it's gonna kill me, so I don't want it!" And Dean's very, very upset, and he goes, "You don't even know what you're saying." And Sam goes, "No, I'm saying something you don't like." Slay! He's like, "You care. A lot. But I think I'm better off without it, maybe." [G: Literally.] And Dean goes, "You don't know how wrong you are!" And then Sam starts walking away, and Dean yells after him.

G: It is hilarious to me that this does end with a walk away. [C: Yeah.] And the shot is hilarious, too. It's like Sam walking away, and then half of the frame is like, Dean behind him going, "Sam!" [both laugh] It's kind of important.

C: Pretty important. Yeah. Well, that was the episode. What do we think?

G: Don't like it! Boring, corny, tired, played out, etc.

C: Yeah, if you say so. I think it had its strengths. It had its weaknesses. I had fun for a lot of it.

G: Best Line/Worst Line. [C: Ooh.] I forgot we did this

C: That we do Best Line/Worst Line in general? I mean, the "Will you, boy?" scene is iconic. I don't know if it's my best line, but it is iconic.

G: I would say my best line is- I don't know, actually. I have no idea. I suppose I really did like that, "Will you, boy? How?" scene, but Sam's lines. I like that he has a- that "I don't give a fuck that you're an angel" vibe that he has going is so fun. So I suppose I choose the line- Wait, I'm gonna look it up. "I'm sorry. Do you think we're here to talk this out?" [both laugh] Love that! [C: Love it.] I love that. He was like, "I came here for a purpose. You and I are not gonna discuss it. You're just gonna do it." And that's what makes them good in bed.

C: So true. I think I also like when Sam goes, "It's what I would have done." about Crowley hunting down Lucifer loyalists.

G: What's your worst line? What is a Samuel line that I can assign worst line? [C laughs] I think, honestly, the Samuel line where he goes, "You know how to live without her. I don't." is crazy. I'm gonna choose that as my worst line.

C: Yeah, I think Samuel's whole "You sold out Mary's soul for Sam's" thing was also a silly, stupid thing. Oh, we didn't even mention that when Meg was gonna kill Crowley, she said, "This is for Lucifer, you pompous little-" and then Crowley beats her up. [G: Aw, yeah.] Whatever. It's not that important. It's important to me!

Alright, spread those sheets. I think misogyny exists within the world of the boobstrap table.

G: Yes, it does.

C: Why was it happening? What was it for?

G: I would say, actually, the misogyny, I would place it high because of the fundamental characterization of Meg. [C: Mm-hm.] Also- you know what? This is not about the misogyny, racism, homophobia, but like-

C: Okay, is it about the heterosexual or the nonbinary?

G: I mean, yeah, it is, definitely. But it's just, I do think there is also so much incompetence in the writing of Samuel. It's such an incompetent way to have this character be. When he whipped out Mary, the Mary photo, I was kind of like, "Wow! What an absurd thing to do," but also, as you said you could see it from a mile away. Because what else does this character have? Literally nothing. [C: Yeah.] Nothing. And it's just, you know, it's like, I'm like, "Oh, yeah, they also didn't write him well," so we can add that to nothing [C: So true.] 'cause it's not misogynistic, racist, or homophobic.

C: Yeah. So when you say high, are you going like, 3 [G: Yes.] or higher? 3. 3 sounds right to me. Racism, we did have a few Black demons in this episode, I don't know if- was there? I feel like they're- yeah. I don't know. The one who calls them a little bitch at the beginning is Black, but I don't if that really counts inherently as anything.

G: I don't personally think so.

C: Yeah, I don't personally think so. Was there anything else? Not that I recall.

G: Not really, not particularly.

C: Yeah.

G: Homophobia. Dude, you can't watch porn in a room [both] full of dudes. I don't think that's homophobic. I think that's heterophobic. [C laughs]

C: Is it?

G: [laughs] Yeah! [C: So true.] The only reason why you would not watch porn with your straight friends is because of heterophobia.

C: Yeah, okay, I don't know, something's going on with Cas sexuality studies this episode.

G: Something is going on, but I don't think it's homophobia.

C: Yeah, I think we're supposed to laugh at him being clueless about how men are supposed to be. [G: Mm.] But yeah, I don't know. Let's just zero it, I suppose.

G: Yeah.

C: And when the pizza man montage happens, we'll give that episode negative ten homophobia.

G: No, that was fighting for Grey rights. [C: Yeah.] And I did say "gay" like "Grey."

C: Yeah. It was. I am that Db. When you say "I am that Db," is that Dean Binchester? Decibels? What's the Db? Actually, also, what does IMDb stand for?

G: International movie database.

C: That is probably true.

G: No, let's look it up.

C: It's internet movie database. You almost got it.

G: Yeah. 6.10 is me. I'm even. So this is, I would assume, a beloved episode in the stats thing because it's revealing stuff and doing things, and Meg is here, which is a recurring character, and Crowley and Cas are both here, and also, we have cemented the Samuel falling out, so the next time we see him, we're gonna kill him, which is important. [C laughs]

C: I don't think Dean actually does that, does he?

G: No, I don't think so. [both laugh] But we have established that we this is not a guy that we have have to, you know, put in any effort into liking. I would give this an 8.4.

C: Okay. You did all the talk about how it's rated highly, and then you only gave it 0.1 above "Clap Your Hands If You Believe"?

G: Yeah, I don't believe that it's that highly rated. Maybe it is. It's your chance, Crystal. You're lagging behind.

C: Ah! Whatever. 8.3. I hate my life. No, wait! No, whatever. Let's just do it. Okay.

G: You're not lagging behind, are you?

C: Yes, I am.

G: Oh, you are! By not that much. That's impressive.

C: What. What's the answer? I guessed 8.3, and I'm wrong, and I'm stupid.

G: Yeah! It's 8.5! [C groans] All of the photos are of Meg, and that's kind of important. [laughs]

C: Yeah, I understand this.

G: This one says, "Cas is at the top of his comedic game." Is he?

C: But is he?

G: This one says it helps focus the season because Season 6 is so " wildly uneven" and it's a "structural mess." And so this one is like, a very focused episode. This is so scary! I was like, "Oh my god! Did they know?" Because "One of the outstanding episodes of Season 6. Angels and demons working together, oh my!" And I was like, "Oh my god, they're like- this is like-"

C: They were talking about Meg.

G: Yeah, "Did we not watch like a Crowley and Cas scene at the end that was so important, and we missed it completely?" But no, it's about Meg.

Well, that’s it for this episode of Busty Asian Beauties. Next week, we will be discussing Season 6, Episode 11: "Appointment in Samarra." Leave us a rating or a review wherever you get your podcasts.

C: Someone in the reviews is asking why soulless Sam wouldn't be going after demon blood to drink it.

G: That's an interesting question. I suppose there is an aspect of the dependence that is emotional.

C: Yeah, maybe. Or like, now that he's Mr. Logic And Reason, he feels that it's actually not in his best interest?

G: Yeah. [C: Yeah.] I mean, the thing is, he does get powers from it, for real. [C: Yeah, yeah.] Or is that true?

C: It's true. He did get powers for real from the demon blood, yeah.

G: Yeah. But also now, he doesn't-

C: Except for that "You never needed the feather to fly, Dumbo" line, which I don't understand.

G: Yeah, but in Season 5, he still had to drink it, so who knows?

C: Yeah. And he used it to torture Alastair, right? And then kill him? So like, if they're- yeah, yeah. I don't know. Yeah, whatever the objections to drinking demon blood are are not within the soul. Or they are within the soul, but then there's other ones- the soul has reasons for and against, and without the soul, Sam has neither. [G: Yeah.] Yeah, okay. Well, follow us on social media! We are on Tumblr at bustyasianbeautiespod.tumblr.com. Our official tag is #BABPod, B-A-B-POD. Thanks to everyone who's donated to our Ko-Fi at ko-fi.com/bustyasianbeautiespod, which is where our outtakes live, and check out our merch at babpod.redbubble.com.

G: You can email us any feedback, comments, or inquiries at bustyasianbeautiespod@gmail.com. See you guys next time! [both] Bye!

[guitar music]

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Good in Bed - s6 Sam/Castiel

for the “sam and cas were fuckbuddies during season 6” truthers out there (youtube)

[bustyasianbeautiespod]

Episode 114: Deus Ex Machina That Doesn't Work

Today, Crystal & Grey discuss Supernatural 6.10 - Caged Heat. We talk about: the beginnings of the Pizza Man cold open, commending a show for having the bravery to kinda suck, and George Bailey has so many problems he is thinking about ending it all - and it's Christmas!

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