bustyasianbeautiespod - Tumblr blog

bustyasianbeautiespod · 2 months ago

Text

Episode 117 Transcript: Brystal CABPod

[intro guitar music]

G: Hello, it's Grey.

C: Hello, it's Crystal.

G: And this is Busty Asian Beauties, a Supernatural commentary podcast where I, someone who has seen this show several times...

C: And I, someone who only knows the show through social media, discuss every single episode of Supernatural from start to finish. Also, we are both Asian.

G: Both Asian! For today's episode, we will be discussing Season 6, Episode 13 with the corny, corny, corny title: "Unforgiven," [both laugh] written by Andrew Dabb and Daniel Loflin. Boo! [C: Boo.] or I don't know, it's fine. Directed by David Barrett-

C: Who is only a director on "Unforgiven" and has never done anything else.

G: Well, I'm sure he has done other things in his life, but yeah, on Supernatural.

C: That's true. Woke up, breathed. Let's find this individual. [typing] "David Barrett, IMDb." Oh, whole Wikipedia page for this individual.

G: That's pretty fun.

C: I don't really know. I don't recognize anything on here, though. Also, it might be a different David Barrett.

G: You know, sometimes, people just have a Wikipedia [C: That they made?], and it's not for anything, yeah. You don't have to be too impressed. He directed one episode of Supernatural in the Wikipedia, so this is him. I'm just sorry for saying that you shouldn't be impressed with this guy. [C laughs] He seems an accomplished director and other things, so good for him.

C: Yeah, yeah. He did three episodes of Once Upon a Time, which I know matters to the femslash community.

G: Love it. Love it. Watched that TV show around the same time I watched House M.D., I think, for the first time. [C: Mm.] And I knew immediately that they were lesbians. Like, yeah.

C: Good for them.

G: Well, anyway! [laughs] What do we think about this episode? [laughs] Let's just skip to the end.

C: So okay, I think the concept of it is pretty good.

G: Yeah. Parts of it are like- [laughs]

C: An old case that Sam did some fucked up shit as soulless Sam, and he learns over the course of the episode that there's no way to truly, cleanly make things right the way he wants to. Good concept. Actual execution, I guess this guy who was a spider [laughs] spent a whole year finding out who Sam slept with and what his phone number was?

G: Yeah. [both laughing] Hell yeah.

C: And so yeah. And also, the flashbacks are corny as fuck.

G: The flashbacks were so long, and corny and tired and played out. I feel they could have gone the more "For real, we're seeing it from Sam's perspective now" kind of flashback, you know? But we don't. We just fully get in on those. It's just a completely separate part of the episode, so. And it's black and white. [C: Yeah.] [laughs] I mean, it's better than if they did the coloring of Season 8 with Amelia, [C laughing] but still. I was like, "What are we doing here? What is this?" I mean, it's generally fine. But I think there's a reason, I think, why basically nobody talks about this episode. And it's essential to Sam's plot, and we do get the iconic visual of Sam in Hell in this episode, it seems like. But yeah, some episodes are just not bell ringers. Okay, well, what did know about it, though, before?

C: Nothing. I just put down that I assume it's about soulless Sam having been responsible for a death in an evil way, and then him having to make up for it in a case. So I got that right. But yeah, none of the details of this episode are things that I've heard about.

G: Really?

C: Yeah.

G: I don't know what you would have heard about if it wasn't- I also think I like quite a bit that it feels very- I was gonna say "very modern" to refer to modern-day Supernatural, [C laughs] and by modern-day, I mean late seasons. But that's not modern-day. That's five years ago! [C: Right.] Crazy. [laughs] That's crazy! Wait! [laughs] What's going on?

C: You good?

G: Well, anyway. Yeah, I mean, I started watching Supernatural when it was airing Season 10, and that was in 2015!

C: Ten years ago.

G: That's wild.

C: Yeah.

G: Well, anyway, we start the episode literally in- The "Then" sequences this season, I don't know. They leave much to be desired, I feel like. [C laughs] I just feel like. [C: Mm.] Last episode, we had that disappointing AMV that's literally whatever, [C laughs] and now, it's just whatever, also. It's just them saying, "We're gonna bring that damn soul back," etc. We are in a flashback sequence that we know to be a flashback sequence because it's black and white. Is it currently black and white?

C: No. No, it's not.

G: It's normal.

C: It says "one year ago" is how we know.

G: Okay. And Sam and Samuel- [both laugh] I have been thinking about what I said to you the other day, which is that we are so quick to judge Samuel. If you did get resurrected from the dead, and you have a grandchild named "Chris," you would kill him. [laughs]

C: I don't know if I would kill Chris.

G: You wouldn't kill Crys with a Y?

C: Noo. [laughs] No, no, I don't think so. I would kill my clone. I don't think I would kill some other guy.

G: Yeah, I mean, seeing how Sam acted with Samuel when they were hunting together, it does make me think, why didn't Samuel kill him? [both laugh] [C: No.] Kinda maybe he should have.

C: Yeah, no, it just seemed Sam was being, "And now we should use people as bait, and then now we should kill them without even checking with the hospital, but this is how we do it in the 2000s," and Samuel was like, "I guess!" [laughs]

G: Yeah. So maybe me saying that you would kill Crys is just me projecting on what Samuel should have done. Yeah, anyway, Sam and Samuel are running out of a fucking building, and for some reason, Sam has a giant wound on his arm. Do we figure out why he has this giant wound later?

C: Uhh... I think it's from when the Arachne jumped him?

G: He didn't have it when he shot that guy. He didn't have! [C: Hm, yeah.] Like, he raised his arm to shoot that guy with the arm that's bloody.

C: Fair point. Yeah, I don't know.

G: So now I have no idea where this fucking arm wound came from. But anyway, they go out, they're driving away. There's a cop car comes up, and there's a cop asking, "What's going on?" because they can't get Sheriff Dobbs on the phone. And so Samuel steps out, and then Sam steps out, and the cop is, "Oh my god! You have so much blood on you!" And he was like, "I'm gonna arrest you guys." But then Sam just well and truly knocks him the fuck out. Truly just beats the crap out of him. [C: Yeah.] And then he's conscious. And Samuel's like, "Maybe we shouldn't have done that!"

C: I thought he was straight up dead.

G: Well, as we find out, [C: He's not.] he is not straight up dead. He is gay up alive! [C laughs] So good for him.

C: Good for him. Gay down alive?

G: It's gay down alive. I'm so sorry.

C: It's okay. Yeah, he punches him the amount of times it takes to kill somebody in Supernatural through punches. [both laugh]

G: No, we need to keep a count of how many times you need to be hit on the head to be unconscious and then die.

C: Yeah, well, yeah, not this amount, I suppose.

G: Yeah, this is just unconscious territory.

C: Yeah. And Samuel's just like, "That was a little bit unchill of you, buddy!" [both laughing] and then they just go off.

G: [laughing] No, literally.

C: I mean, okay, what have we seen of Samuel's-

G: Morals?

C: His morals or his hunting style or whatever, right? Because we're saying, "Oh, he should have known. He should have held Sam to a higher standard," etc. Do we know that he wasn't also a shithead?

G: Well, we know that he partnered with Bobby in a way that really jeopardized the safety of his crew.

C: With Bobby?

G: Not Bobby. [both laugh] "With Bobby." I'm sorry for badmouthing Bobby.

C: I'm like, when was this old man yaoi? Yeah. Okay, yeah. But in terms of endangering other people who weren't hunters, have we seen it?

G: No, I think with Samuel, we pretty much only exclusively see him with getting to the alphas and stuff, so we don't know.

C: Yeah. And when he's going after Yellow Eyes in one of the time travel episode [G: Yeah.], wasn't one of Mary's friends killed in that kerfuffle? How did that happen?

G: I don't think she was killed. I think they went to her house to check on her. [C: Okay.] And then she was killed, yeah. [both laugh]

C: And then she was killed.

G: She was killed by a possessed Samuel, if I remember correctly. He didn't have time to react to that because he died immediately, if you remember.

C: Uh-huh, yeah. [G laughs] Wait wait wait, did he die immediately after that, or was that the one where Yellow Eyes decided he had his eye on Mary but he didn't kill her?

G: Yeah. And then they kissed, and then he died.

C: No, no, no, I'm saying there are two different flashback episodes. [G: Oh, yeah. That's true.] Both of them involve Azazel. I feel like the Mary's friend dying was in the first one, not the second one? Or the second one, not the first? No.

G: I think it's the second one.

C: No, but you're right. In the first one, she already does the deal 'cause that's only Dean who sees it. So yeah, no.

G: Oh, yeah. In the second one, the parents are dead. [C: Yes.] Hell yeah.

C: Hell yeah. Well, this has been Grey and Crystal trying to remember what happened in Supernatural. [G laughs] Well, I have no insights on Samuel's hunting style from that.

G: I mean, we have said this before, but there's literally no character to Samuel. His only character, is that he loves Mary. [C laughs] The only insight we get from him this episode was literally a third character going, "Wow! He loved her." [both laugh] about Mary, and it's so stupid! It's crazy.

C: Sam and Dean are in a motel room. Sam's watching a news story about Mel Gibson's domestic violence case, and Dean says, "I think it's just because he was possessed by a demon!" [G laughs] Don't do that.

G: No, yeah, that is- It's kind of a wild thing to do, the way Supernatural would go, "Yeah, this guy was possessed by a demon. Yeah, the demons did 9/11." [both laugh]

C: There's no need to be topical in this particular way, Supernatural. [G: Yeah.] And they got nothing from Bobby about Eve, which is the only time during this episode that they pay tribute to the big old plot thing that happened last week. [G: Literally.] And then Sam gets a mysterious text message that's just a set of coordinates, and he doesn't know who it's from.

G: The last time they got this shit was from John!

C: Was "Something Wicked." And they are trying to draw parallels, I think. And then they give up.

G: Yes, very heavily. Let's get into it later.

C: Those are coordinates to Bristol, Rhode Island, which is where the initial opening scene happened. Three women have disappeared.

G: Are places in the US just same named from places in the UK because they were a colony?

C: A lot of them, yeah, I think.

G: Okay, got it. I was like, "It's in Bristol? They're flying?" [both laugh] So true. But there's a Briston in Rhode Island.

C: It's in Brystal CABPod.

G: What? What's the joke there?

C: It's like "Crystal BABPod" but you switch the letters. It's not funny. Who cares? [both laugh]

G: No, wait! Can you explain why this would be funny if it was? [C laughing] I'm sorry. Was that a really offensive thing to say?

C: [laughing] It wasn't, but it's incredibly funny.

G: Well, how would it be funny if-

C: It's just that "Bristol" sounds like "Crystal," so-

G: Oh, okay!

C: So, yeah, instead of Crystal BABPod, it's Brystal CABPod.

G: No, but Crystal only sounds that if you say it in a specific way.

C: Crystal and Bristol sound pretty similar!

G: No, but Bristol has an O, and Crystal has an A and it's OH/UH. That's different.

C: Bristol, Crystal. It's the same sound! [G laughs] It's an "uhl."

G: Well, you know, love is love, [C laughs] so we can move on from this.

C: And people are people.

So yeah, so Sam assumes that this is another hunter who he may have met while he was soulless dropping him a case so they should go, despite Dean's protestations. Because, yeah, Dean goes, "We're just gonna drop everything?" And Sam says, "Dude. Two minutes ago, you weren't doing anything." [both laugh] King shit. Yeah, and Sam's saying that they have to go, because even if this is mysterious or a trap or whatever, they shouldn't ignore three missing girls. And they go under the agreement that if things start getting weird, they leave. While they're driving in there's a welcome sign, and Sam at this point starts getting his silly black and white flashbacks of the last time he was here. But he does not tell Dean about it so that they don't have to leave.

G: There are two sets of flashbacks, basically. There's the ones like this that are sprinkled across the episode, and then the longer ones that are basically the entire scene that happened in the past. And I do wonder, when Sam is having a longass flashback, is he having the whole thing? [laughs]

C: I think so. That's why- [G: Okay.] Because one of the times he got it when Brenna went up- She was like, "I'm gonna go get the file now."

G: Yeah, and he's looking at the couch.

C: Yeah. And then he has the whole flashback, and then she's gone. When he comes to, she's back from going upstairs to getting the files.

G: Yeah, but the the really, really long one, when they were actually hunting the monster already. What's that about?

C: Oh, okay, probably not. Dean would have said something.

G: Yeah, he's just staring in the void. To be fair, it was a two minute flashback [C: Mm.] so, you know. We have this really weird remark that Dean does where he's looking through- They're at a caf- I was gonna say, "They're at a cafe," but I think Dean Winchester will erupt from my screen and kill me if I said that. But they're at a-

C: Yeah, cafes are gay. That's why the words rhyme.

G: Yeah, they're at a diner.

G: They barely- We cannot get into the difference [C laughs] between how you and I pronounce things in this episode.

C: Say "cafe," and say "gay."

G: Cafe. Gay. Oh my god!

C: It does!

G: It does! It sounds more rhyming when I say it, though, when you do.

C: [laughs] Okay, slay.

G: And he makes this weird remark, where he's holding the missing poster signs, and he's like, "Wow, look at this lady. She's got that wild side look in her eyes!" [laughs] which is so weird, especially given the fact that the reveal this episode is that Sam fucked all these women.

C: Sam Winchester's killer dick strikes again.

G: How many dicks has Sam killed? [C laughs] No, how many women has Sam's dick killed? We have-

C: Okay, Jess. [G: Yes.] Madison. [G: Hell yeah.] Sarah, eventually.

G: Is eventually gonna get there, yeah.

C: Ruby. [G: Hell yeah.] Okay, Cara's fine, at least, so that's something. She escaped. And then all three of these women. Anyone else?

G: Damn. Not looking good for Sam.

C: Also, Dean's like, "Wow. This monster has a type. It's brunettes." But it turns out that it is simply Sam who has a type that's brunettes. [laughing] Do you think it's because Jess made him so sad that he can't fuck blondes anymore?

G: [laughing] Did Sam ever fuck a blonde again? An important question. And I think we can say no.

C: I don't think so. Yeah, he doesn't. That's why he only had sex with Ruby 2.0! [both laugh]

G: No, literally! He was like, "You're a demon? That's completely fine. You're blonde? Ew! Ew!" That's what he said.

C: Yeah. Dean's fucked blonde- Jamie, in "Monster Movie." So we know that he has no such qualms.

G: Yeah. Eventually, Dean goes out to take a dump or something, and this couple walks in, and the lady knows Sam Winchester. And she is very enthusiastic to see him. She's like, "Oh my god! You're back! And you remember my husband, right?" Which is like, [both laugh] we realize that the reason she's saying that is to be like, "Don't flirt with me too openly. That's what to do." I love this. I think Sam should exclusively have sex with married women. [both laugh] And that's important.

C: But what about Eileen? I guess she can get married first.

G: Yeah, she can- Yeah, she can get divorced. I think Sam should only have sex with divorced women. [C: Mm.] The woman is saying, "Oh, you're back because the disappearances are starting again. Anyway, where's your partner? The big bald guy?" [both laugh] And yeah, by the way, while this is all happening, Dean went to the bathroom, right? And he saw- he was looking at this array of pictures that is people who have finished a certain meal or something. [C: Yeah.] And in one- He's looking, he's looking, he's looking. And then he pauses at a picture, and he makes a face, and we don't see the picture, [both laughing] and I-

C: I was like, "I can't believe Sam ate all of those burgers!"

G: [laughing] I fully thought when he was gonna show the picture-

C: [laughing] It'd be Sam in the pirate hat. Love it.

G: [laughing] - Sam in the pirate hat. I'm so sad that it wasn't that. So sad. Devastated! Anyway, the woman is still making conversation, and she eventually goes, "Well, if you need anything." And then she puts her hand on Sam's shoulder. And Dean has come in at this point and is waving them away. But she puts her hand on Sam's shoulder, and Sam does a turn, and he remembers that he was fucking this woman in a bathroom! [C laughs] Hell yeah! [C: Hell yeah.] And it is incredibly funny to me-

C: It's detailed. It's animalistic and detailed.

G: No, the person who left that review that was like, "Oh, yeah? This is your wife's favorite-" [C laughing] I will never forget that. Remember that? Someone left a review-

C: Yes, in "Heart." I remember.

G: Someone left- For those who may not remember, somebody left a review in the episode of "Heart" that was like, "Oh my god! This is my wife's favorite episode!" And then a couple of reviews later, somebody left a review saying, "Oh, yeah, no wonder this is your wife's favorite episode." And then with quotation marks somewhere. Anyway, every time Sam has a sex scene, that's all I think about. [C: So true.] And also, I do find it a little bit- Obviously, there are many things happening here that may contribute to Sam being distressed, such as that he's realizing that he was in this case before, he's realizing that there's stuff that he doesn't remember, and it's a very vivid sex scene that's happening in his brain. [both laugh] Many things happening. But it does also kind of come off that he's just shocked that he had sex, [laughs] so I was-

C: And with a married woman, too! [G: Anyway.] Dean says that this woman is giving Sam "cougar eyes." Is she that old? How old does he think she is?

G: No, she's literally maybe 28. [C laughs] [C: Literally, though.] And Sam is- how old is Sam now? Isn't he literally fucking 27? [C: I think so.] Or 28? He's literally 28.

C: I don't think he's 28.

G: He is! He's 22-

C: No, no, because Dean was 29 in Season 4, so Dean is 31, Sam's 27.

G: No, he was 26, dude!

C: In Season 1.

G: Okay, yeah, you're right, sorry. [laughs]

C: I'm talking about Season 4. He was 29 in Season 4, right? Is that right? Because of the song?

G: Yeah, because he dreamed about you for 29 years before he saw you. Why am I saying "you" like you? Well, when he saw Cas.

C: Yeah. You know what? Cas is also a brunette. Another Sastiel win!

C: So they're camped out in some abandoned house, trying to work out this case. I do like when they're camped out in an abandoned house because they're like, "This city's too small to have a motel." They're trying to figure out what's going on. And Sam thinks that what happened is just that it's the same monster as last year, but he and Samuel failed to stop it. And he's like, "And that means it's all my fault, and I have to fix it!" What if Samuel just had bad vibes?

G: [laughs] No, literally.

C: Yeah. And Dean says, "Okay, but why the genderbend, huh?" Which I'm surprised I haven't seen as a reaction image, you know? It seems like a screenshot.

G: Okay. In what situation would you react with, "But why the genderbend?"

C: I mean, people love the werewolf transgenderism screenshot. I just feel it would live there.

G: So true, maybe. You know, it is always so shocking 'cause people actually do use gifsets, and sometimes, those gifs would be from Supernatural, like, in the wild. [C: Yeah.] And it's always shocking. And this won't be on Tumblr-

C: You weren't on Tumblr in 2013.

G: No, but in the world at large. [laughs]

C: Okay. On Twitter?

G: Or the internet at large. Yeah, or, somebody will message you something, and they'll send you a gif, which I'm like, I am not a fan of sending gifs in conversation. [C: Yeah.] But when other people do it, and they send a Supernatural gif, and I'm, "Wow. You know I'm a Supernatural fan?" and they literally don't. It came up for no reason.

C: I like the one where Sam's on the phone, and then he passes out and falls on the sidewalk. [G laughs]

G: No, yeah. Is this the one where it's in every AMV. The one that you say is in every AMV where Sam's supposed to be having fun, but the AMV maker doesn't care? [laughs]

C: No, I don't think so. I don't think so. Dean says, "Let's call Bobby and Rufus to have them deal with it."

G: I just want to point out that at some point, he says, "Five guys went missing last year," and I think that's so important.

C: Oh. Like the burger?

G: Like the burger, yeah. Love the burger Five Guys. [C: I want a burger.] I had it once in Hong Kong, and I have not forgotten about it. It's good!

C: I really want a burger.

G: Yeah, of course. Why would you not want a burger?

C: No, you're right. I'll get a burger. [laughs] Because- Yeah, Dean's saying that they should call Bobby and Rufus to deal with it because hunters don't come to the same town twice because they usually leave messes behind.

G: Yeah. And he says, "Dad says you never use the same crapper twice." And Sam's like, "Everybody uses the same crap or twice." And Dean says, "Not us. You know what I mean!" which I thought was hilarious.

C: Yeah. And Sam says, "This creature is still walking around 'cause of me, right? I mean, I let it go." What if Samuel just had bad vibes?! [G laughs] And then he says, "Dad also said, 'You finish what you start,'" and that's the "Something Wicked" parallels again. And he says-

G: Yeah, I do love that they bring up John a lot for this one. I enjoyed it.

C: Yeah, I do enjoy it as well. It's where Sam got this mindset of having to make up for things.

G: And it's also where he got the mindset to use people as bait! [both laugh]

C: Soo true! And he's like, "Okay, Dean, I get that you're afraid that I'll get all my memories of Hell back and then [G: I'll fall over and die.] it'll fuck me up. I still have to do this because everyone who dies, that's on meee!" And he says, "I have to stop it, and you'd do the same thing." "Something Wicked" reference again. And Dean's like, "Okay, fine. I get it. Sure."

C: He goes over to interview Nicole's roommate. Nicole is the woman he said had "crazy sex eyes" or whatever earlier. Her roommate's blonde, which I guess means that she's safe. Dean is looking through the room, and he sees a business card from Agent Rourke, which was Sam's alias during the original case, and he learned that Sam came by a lot to speak to Nicole, and their conversations were "loud" and "athletic." [laughs]

G: Yeah. And we get a close-up shot of Dean's face, and I thought they were gonna play it for laughs. No, he's also really stern. And I was like, "Are we just upset that Sam was having sex? [laughs] What's going on?"

C: Well, I think it's just him realizing that this is a trap set for Sam thing.

G: But he hasn't realized it yet.

C: I think he can start to suspect it.

G: Yeah, I think it's also realizing the involvement that Sam has in this town. Sam wasn't just someone who passed by and whatever. He was involved in it.

C: Meanwhile, Sam's going to the sheriff's station to do some research, and he runs into that guy he beat up who isn't dead. And he immediately arrests Sam and is accusing him of being the one who killed those five people before, and killed the three people now. And he also keeps asking Sam, "Where's Sheriff Dobbs?" which he also asked in the flashback. So Sam's just stuck in this jail cell now, but then he gets approached by this woman Brenna, who's also a pretty brunette, like every other woman in this thing, and that's not super relevant because they didn't sleep together, but Roy does have a line later that makes it seem like Sam was trying to. She is the widow of Sheriff Dobbs, or- I guess he's still alive. So she's just the wife of Sheriff Dobbs. She's asking him what happened to her husband and also that he shouldn't lie to her because she knows that he's a hunter. And Sam starts getting a little flashback of him and Samuel actually telling Sheriff Dobbs and Brenna about what they do and asking for their help. Brenna's whole thing is that she just wants to know what happened. "Please tell me what happened." And Sam says, "I cannot, due to the amnesia." And he convinces her that the amnesia is real, and that he can help her. She just has the keys to the cell and lets him out-

G: No, why is that?

C: - and tells him to tie her up with the rope to stage a breakout.

G: There's this part where they're talking to the husband, right? And he was like, "Oh, blah blah blah, blah blah blah." And Sam goes, "Wait! Why is your wife here?" And then he goes, "Because she's my wife! And she does work for the office." And I was confused by that. [C: No?] What's that about? She's just there. She's a civilian worker.

C: Yeah, no, I'm confused. Was it just meant to be exposition?

G: Are there civilian workers in-

C: Yeah, there's receptionists, like Nancy in Season 3.

G: Yeah, okay. So she was a receptionist there?

C: Well, we don't know that. I don't know exactly what her job was.

G: I feel like those are relevant things, you know what I mean? for what he was trying to say. Again, I don't think your wife should be involved in your work. [both laugh]

C: Yeah. But yeah. And then we have a brief scene of Debbie, who's the woman who ran into Sam at the restaurant, and she and her husband seem unhappy in their marriage. She goes to the basement to get more wine, and a hand comes out of nowhere and grabs her.

G: She was getting boxed wine, which I love. Good for her.

C: So Sam's back to that abandoned house where they're camping out. He hears footsteps, and he jumps out and pulls a gun on the person who comes in, but it's only Dean. Dean comes in and is like, "I told you so! We're fugitives again. Great." And then they hear on the police radio another missing person, Debbie, I assume. Dean tells Sam to not go anywhere, and he'll check it out at Debbie's house. Dean has finished interviewing Don, her husband, and then leaves a message with Sam, saying that "The link between all the missing women is that they all banged the same dude. [both] You." [G: Love it.] And all of this is a trap for Sam. So did Debbie tell Don about it- or no, probably not. He was just like, "They seemed really close" or whatever.

G: What do you mean did Debbie tell Don?

C: That she slept with Sam. 'Cause how did Dean figure it out?

G: I mean, probably the same way that-

C: But the roommate knew.

G: Yeah, because she heard. Well, I suppose, I don't know.

C: He already suspected from the cougar eyes or whatever, so I don't really see what-

G: Yeah, that's true. Maybe Sam told Dean! [laughs] He like, "I think I fucked that woman."

C: No, he deliberately has not been telling Dean that he's been having the flashback.

G: Oh, that's true. But maybe he was like, "I have vibes that-"

C: or I guess they didn't know who the missing person was, right? So he went over, he saw a picture of Don's wife, and he was like, "Oh, that's the woman that probably Sam fucked." So, yeah, that's probably it. Yeah.

G: He was like, "She's blonde, and she's from here."

C: Brunette, but yes. [G laughs]

G: She's literally brunette, and she's from here.

G: We go to Brenna's house. This is the woman who let Sam go earlier. And Sam's like, "Oh, I'm sorry. I'm not supposed to be here. But I need to know stuff." And the woman is like, "Actually, what happened to Debbie Harris? Because she's just gone. I let you out, and now she's gone. What am I supposed to think?" Do you think she also knows that Sam slept with her?

C: I don't know.

G: It seems that they all know.

C: Who's "they all"?

G: Everyone in this community is like, "Oh, yeah, that's the guy who fucked through all the women in this town a year ago" or something.

C: Wait, why do they all know?

G: No, why do they all know?

C: What makes you think that they all know?

G: Because the implication here that "Oh, you knew her," quote-unquote "knew" her. What's that about?

C: She doesn't say that he knew her.

G: No, yeah. But I feel it's implied. Or maybe it's only implied because I already know that.

C: Yeah, I think it's really just- [G: Somebody's missing.] "After the last year, we suspected that you were involved in the missing people. And now, while you were in jail, nobody went missing, and then, after you were out, somebody went missing. Are you killing people again?"

G: Yeah, Sam's puppy dog eyes do double time this episode. [C: Uh-huh.] He basically managed to convince this woman to let him out earlier because of it. And now, he's just like, "Do you think I did something to her?" And then, you know, does the very big eyes. And she's like, "I don't know!" And Sam just says, "Look, you know, what I need your help with is that the case files. They're not in the precinct, so perhaps you took it. I need it from you." And she- Honestly, I'm impressed by this woman. [both laugh] I'm impressed that she's just like, "Okay! Whatever." [C: No, yeah, she's not-] She's not just "Okay." But her reactions seem so benevolent towards Sam Winchester [C: Yes.] at every situation. She believes that he had amnesia. He didn't even need to fucking get out of that cell. Here, she lets him take the case files. And later, Sam is like, "Oh, I need the case files to go." [C laughs] And she's like, "Okay, take it out!"

C: No, yeah. What is- I just don't- I don't believe that anybody would be this helpful to Sam Winchester, especially because the last time she met him, he was a dick!

G: Yeah. And I do wonder, what are they trying to do? Because there must be a reason why they chose a character so benevolent to be here. Is it-

C: They just needed plot things.

G: No, because I was thinking, if she was angry, would that make us then feel more empathetic towards Sam? And they're trying to make us less empathetic towards Sam?

C: I don't think they're trying to make us less empathetic towards Sam. I think if she was angry- I don't know. I think we're just supposed to- It's supposed to be sort of a big reveal, the bait thing. [G: Ah.] And you just shouldn't be thinking of Sam as somebody who did anything that bad yet, so that means everyone has to be niceys to him.

G: Mm, perhaps. He was also- Every flashback we have with her, he was an asshole. [C: Right.] I just don't think she would give him this benefit of the doubt. [C: I agree.]

She is getting the files. Sam gets a whole entire flashback of all of them sitting on a couch. And I found this scene so odd because it's something they never do. They're never just-

C: They usually do not tell people.

G: No, first, they don't tell people. And second, they don't sit on the couch, drinking, talking about their life.

C: I mean, might be the Samuel effect.

G: That's true. Anyway, they're sitting on the couch. Samuel's literally- he's chilling. He's lounging, even. And I suppose they told these people, "Sam is my grandson." But he's young! [laughs]

C: Yeah, I don't know. He probably just said he has a great moisturizing routine.

G: No, that's true.

C: Also, wasn't JDM only 12 years older than Jensen Ackles or something when he was playing John?

G: Why did he look so old? [C laughs] I'm so sorry to that man.

C: Let me check the actual ages. Yeah, no, I got them right. 12 years.

G: Yeah. Well, happy 12 years or something. I suppose, for example, you had your child when you were in your twenties. [C: Okay.] And then your child had their child when they were in their twenties. And Sam is in his twenties. It makes sense, probably.

C: Well, okay, how old is the actor for Samuel Campbell?

G: At this time?

C: Or just how many years older is he than Jared Padalecki? Okay, he was born in 1952...

G: Wow, he's old.

C: Jared Padalecki...

G: 1984.

C: 1982.

G: Okay. Good thing I got it wrong. Imagine if I got it right. [laughs]

C: 30 years older. 30 years older, you could have- I don't know. I guess people have kids when they're 15. You could do it twice, I guess. [laughs]

G: No. [laughs] I mean he talks about being a hunter while being married.

C: People have been hunters at age 15.

G: That's maybe true, but he doesn't look only 30 years older, to be fair to him. No, he does. He look 60 or something. [C: Yeah.] Do you think they gave the back story of "Oh, the reason why I look so young-"

C: No, I don't think they gave the pulled down from Heaven backstory.

G: They should have! Do you think it will give you more or less comfort in life to know that there is a Heaven and Hell situation?

C: Less!

G: Yeah, no, I think it'd make me so miserable.

C: I don't want that shit.

G: I think if I die, I want it over. [C: Yeah.] Gone. Sleep forever. That's what I want.

C: Also, yeah, okay, if it was both Heaven and Hell, I think my main stressor would be, "How do I avoid going to the bad place? I don't want to be tortured for eternity, and I don't want my friends to do it either." If I knew that there was only a Heaven and no Hell, it would also stress me out. I want it done.

G: Literally. Would you kill yourself or not?

C: What?

G: No, [laughs] if you only knew there was Heaven. Only Heaven.

C: I don't think it's that fun up there, and most of the people I like are here.

G: Oh, okay, so it's that kind of "It's stressing me out. I want it done." Supernatural has a fucked up Heaven, number one.

C: Right.

G: They're talking about family and how Samuel’s like, "Love is love" or whatever. I forgot what he was saying. He was definitely not saying "love is love." [C laughs] So the couple that they're talking to is asking, "What's that like? Because you're traveling a lot. Isn't that difficult?" It's kind of wild to me that people would hear that Sam and Dean or other hunters are hunters, and that's what they do, and this is the implications of their job, and the first thing they ask is like, "But what about being on the road?"

C: I don't think it's the first thing. [G: Many people-] They've been talking for a while.

G: That's true. Maybe they're like, "Whoa, tell me about your story as if you're Hercules!" And then, after a while, they're like, "What's this about? What's all this, then?" I mean, what would you ask Sam and Dean if they told you, "Hey, I'm a hunter."

C: What's a hunter? Like, of animals?

G: Yeah. And then they say, "No. Of monstahs!"

C: Like, "Is this a white supremacist thing? What do you mean?"

G: That's- [laughs] Yeah, that is probably- I think I'll just go, "Mmkay." [both laugh] Okay. Well, you're not special, so.

C: Yeah, I think if they were like, "No, real creatures," I would just be like, "Okay, conspiracy theorists. Have a good day."

G: Yeah. I think, actually, I would engage them in conversations, and then I'll come home being like, "Oh, ma! There's people killing vampires that I saw." She'll be, "Okay."

C: No, I mean, yeah. I mean, I talked to someone yesterday who genuinely believes that her friend's restaurant is haunted, and she's gonna go over and burn sage to get it out, so I would just assume that they were that, I suppose.

G: No, yeah. And I mean, I am also that person. I do also burn- not sage. I don't even know what sage is. But I burn incense when-

C: Sage is an indigenous American tradition that a lot of white people have-

G: Sage? In the first episode of Succession that you did watch and then didn't like, there was- Roman brought in a guy to air out the building. Do you remember? No, you don't.

C: No.

G: Yeah, and it's supposed to be a fun little prank joke, whatever, for Kendall. So I think people- [laughs] white people specifically, because Roman Roy is white, surprise to everyone-

C: No way.

G: - that's what they may be doing. So they're like, "It's traveling. What's that about?" And Samuel goes, "No, you know what? It is difficult. And it puts a strain on your family. But family is so importies!" And when Deanna- How does he pronounce it? Deanna? [C: Deanna?] "Well, when Deanna got pregnant, I was like, 'Oh, no!' but we made it work, and she was a blessing."

C: RIP to no abortion. Ruined Mary's life, ruined Deanna's life, etc.

G: Yeah, she's dead.

C: And Samuel's walking around. The husband Roy was like, "I'm gonna go get some more drinks." But Samuel's like, "No, let me do it." So he gets out of his incredibly comfy, cozy seat and goes to get more beer. And so they ask Sam, "How about you? What's your situation? It's so wonderful that-" What did they ask?

C: "At least you two have each other"?

G: "It's so wonderful that you two have each other." And Sam's like, "No, he was not there when I was a kid. This is just a business relationship." [C laughs] And then Brenna goes, "Okay, well, do you have any other family?" [C laughing] And Sam just goes, "Family just slows you down."

C: He's so funny.

G: Hilarious.

C: Answer the question, dude.

G: Yeah. That's the end of our flashback sequence. You know what I did find hilarious about this question is, it reminds me of that thing people do when they ask you about something, and you say something that they find sad or whatever, and then they go, "Oh, but-" [laughs] And then they propose something good about your life that you may be happy about. [C: Yeah.] And I thought this is a hilarious way to respond to that. So kudos to soulless Sam. I think it's so fucking funny.

Sam keeps on having a flashback? This flashback is so long. But now, he's in a different place, and they're talking about who they think it is. It's Arachne. Isn't Arachne an actual-

C: Myth?

G: Yeah, but I think it's one being, right?

C: Yeah, no, it's one being.

G: It's not a set of monsters.

C: But they say that she's an Arachne. Yeah, I think Supernatural is just taking liberties. Or I mean, maybe the Arachne of the myth is the alpha Arachne in the Supernatural lore.

G: Yeah, perhaps. Anyway, they're saying something that they keep on saying with other monsters, too, which is that nobody has seen her outside of this specific location, and now she's here. And also, for 2,000 years. Samuel says that they don't know anything about Arachne, just a bunch of guesses in a blurry picture on the side of a Greek vase, which I did find- What did they mean, a blurry picture on the side of a Greek vase? What are you talking about?

C: No, yeah, they made it blurry in the painting? I don't think they did. It could be an old vase that's no longer around, and they only have a low-res photo of it.

G: Anyway, the waitress goes up to a guy who is sitting in front of them because he is the pirate who ate all the burgers or something. And Sam turns around as they snap a shot for the wall, and that's how his face got into the polaroid. So basically, they're like, "Okay, so we don't know how to kill this thing. Let's just find out." And also, Sam says, "Well, what we do know is all the victims have been men in their thirties, and they've all gone missing within a two-mile radius." And Samuel's like, "Okay, so we should just go out there and figure it out?" But Sam's like, "No, we're not the proper demographic for this! And so we should find someone who's a demographic for it!"

C: He points out a park where he thinks that she's hiding.

G: Anyway, we go back to real life or present day. That was also real life. Well, it was fictional life, but Sam is like, "Oh my god!" And he's like- Every single end of this fucking flashbacks, he's always a little bit teary-eyed. But anyway, at this point, Sam has been looking at the files. He got stuck on a evidence that-

C: Was it a piece of spider web?

G: Yes spider web. And so he tells Brenna, "Hey, I need to take out these evidence," and she shockingly goes, "Yes." But what Brenna says is "I have accepted that he's dead. I just want to know what happened." And Sam goes, "I'm sure he died a hero," which did make later, [C laughs] when he tells the guy, "You're a hero," it did make me go, "Oh my god!" Well, anyway, Sam heads out, and as he heads out, there's a fucking spider web on the side of the house, and he's looking at it. Then, he gets a voicemail from Dean and Dean saying, "They all fucked you. That's what's in common with the victims." But Sam just goes up to the spider web. And then suddenly, somebody taps him or something. And he turns around, weapons out-

C: We also get a POV shot from an Arachne [G: Oh, yeah! And it's like-] where Sam's in a bunch of pieces- Like an eight eyes sort of situation.

G: Yeah, it's pretty cool. I thought it was pretty cool. Anyway, Dean is like, "Okay. We need to get out of here. Let's go." And then they go back to their abandoned house they're staying at that is super fun. And Sam says that it's an Arachne, and that he remembered, and Dean starts going like, "What? Remembered? What else did you remember?" And Sam says, "No, don't worry. It's not Hell." And Dean's like, "Okay, well, not yet, anyway." Dean says they have to go, but Sam says, "Noo, we can't!" because he thinks it's fine, and also that he should be responsible. And Dean says, "We're not the only hunters in the planet. We can call Bobby. We can call Rufus." Love it. [C: Yeah.] Every time they mention Rufus, l love it. and he specifically says that Bobby and Rufus can wrap it up. So true.

C: Yeah, no. They should hunt together. I assume the next time we see Rufus, he's dying, yes? He dies in Season 6. That's probably why they're mentioning him so much.

G: Yeah, or they give him one episode and then they kill him. That's so sad! I just realized that, too.

C: Yeah. [G: Yeah.] Aw. Well, we'll miss you.

G: And Sam says it's difficult because he knows what or who did it, he just can't remember. And Dean says, "We can't have you trying to remember because it's fucking Russian roulette up there." And Sam says, "Well, if it's gonna happen, then it's gonna happen." [both laugh] He says, "It will, or it won't," and that's so importies. He says that he's starting to think he may actually have done some terrible stuff in this town, and he has to set it right because he has a fucking soul now!

C: He says specifically that his soul "won't let him just walk away," [G: Love it!] which I think is fun because it's similar phrasing to in "Clap Your Hands If You Believe" when Dean says, "You wouldn't have been able to fuck Patchouli in the dark because your soul wouldn't have let you."

G: Dean's like, "Okay, let's fucking go!" And then they do.

C: Yeah. So they start doing a red yarn evidence wall. [G laughs] [both] Love it.

G: And this is why they should always be in an abandoned house because you can fucking vandalize the shit out of it. [C: That's true.] I mean, I suppose you can also vandalize the shit out of a motel room.

C: Yeah, but it's not as nice. [G: Yeah.] So Sam starts having flashbacks where he calls Roy and tells him to meet them in Lonely Pines Park in an hour because they're setting him up as bait because Sam's too young and Samuel's too old [G: Old.] for what the Arachne's looking for.

G: Samuel is protesting, but not that much.

C: Yeah. He says, "I think we should have looped Roy in," and Sam's like, "Well, he'll be a bad actor if we loop him in." And Samuel says one more, "What if something goes wrong?" which, they don't even know how to kill this thing yet. They absolutely should not be making this plan. And Sam's just like, "Roy will be fine!" And then Samuel, his last protestation is just, "It's just not the way I'm used to doing things." And Sam just says, "Got it. Welcome to the future!" I guess he- Because, okay, he talks a lot about how Samuel doesn't understand technology. I feel he could have used this whole "You don't understand the times" thing on him a lot while they were partnered.

G: I think that is a way in which we can cut Samuel some slack. If this was especially early on in their hunting partnership, he may not have met all of his other relatives yet and stuff, so Sam may be his only tether to the modern day.

C: Well, they said a year ago, and Dean was back for six months, so this would have been six months into Sam being back.

G: Yeah, but you know how when people say "a year ago," it can mean a year and 11 months ago.

C: That's true. Yeah, I guess we could cut Samuel some slack. So now they're camped out in the park, one million miles away from where Roy's standing. They're really not in a bush right behind him. They're far. I have no idea how they thought this was gonna work.

G: Well, it wasn't supposed to.

C: Roy gets attacked and taken immediately, quickly, and Samuel's like, "We gotta go get him!" And Sam's like, "No! It's too late! And also, don't worry. I have the GPS on in his phone." And Samuel's like, "Oh my god! I can't believe you did this! This was your plan all along?" And Sam goes, "Um, no? [both] This is just my backup plan! Think about it!"

G: "This is my Plan B!"

C: "Yeah!" And Samuel says, "Wow, you're really cold, and I don't like it. But let's just keep doing your thing." So they go to Arachne's lair, and there's a lot of men there, all in spider webs. Samuel cuts through the webbing to have one of the men's faces exposed, and he seems dead, but then he gasps awake. So everyone in there is still alive. And Roy starts calling out for help, and Sam, you know, cuts some of the webbing off, but only so he can ask Roy where the Arachne is. And there's a brief fight where she jumps Sam, and then he cuts her head off, and she's dead now. And Samuel's like, "Okay, great. Let's get all these men to a hospital." And Sam just goes, "I don't think he can be helped! I just don't think so, you know? With spiders, [G: A brown recluse.] sometimes, a spider bites you, and you die. So I think that in this case with a supernatural monster that we know absolutely nothing about, that probably the poison's already too far progressed, and everyone here will just die!"

G: I know spiders, too, and some spiders literally don't have any venom, so like, what's that about?

C: Yeah. Yeah. What is that about? But yeah, it's just such a- I feel it stretches belief. [G: Yeah.] I think if Sam was like, "I read the lore and it said this," I'd be like, "Okay, that's fine. I think that this is a level of cold that soulless Sam could be."

G: The point is not that he's evil. [C: Yeah.] It's that he's calculated in a way that is severe, and those are different things. [C: Yes.] Again, if it's made clear that these people are not gonna survive for real, him shooting them dogs on the floor is severe, but it's not a complete evil, you know what I mean? And they do try to play this out that by the way Sam's insisting, but it just- Sam is not like, "It's inconvenient." You know what I mean. The way they point it out is that Sam doesn't want to take them to the hospital because it's inconvenient or it won't do anything, but he doesn't know that for a fact. And despite this, the way that Samuel agrees, or at the very least doesn't disagree, is also like, what are we doing here?

C: So Sam's saying, we have to put everyone here [G: On fire.] out of their misery. So yeah. And he tells Roy- Roy's begging Sam not to do it. But Sam says, "Killing this thing saved a lot of lives. We couldn't have done it without you. You're a hero." and then he shoots him, and he does it with everybody else. [G: No, yeah.] And then he tells Samuel that they should now burn this shack down. The end.

G: Yeah, it is shocking, which is what it's supposed to do. I wish they did it a little bit more better to make it clear that Sam isn't repenting because he was evil, or- You know what I mean. He's repenting because there are ways he could have interfaced with it in a completely different way. [C: Right.] Yeah, for example, the bait thing. Yeah, I believe that soulless Sam would do that because he did it with Dean. But with Dean, he knew for a fact that Dean is gonna have a cure. With this one, it just betrays an active carelessness that is- I don't know, maleficent in nature. It's s over the line in a way that defeats the purpose. You know what I mean? Sam's guilt, I don't think it should just be, "And you were evil, and that's why." [C: Right.] It should be showing that doing bad things isn't just about having those bad intentions and then acting on it. You can do bad things just completely neutral emotionally. I don't know. Stuff like that. And I feel that is what soulless Sam was leaning more towards. What you said earlier, the comparison that they make with sleeping with Patchouli, right? That's not a bad thing, but it just betrays a lack of care that is hurtful to someone who expects you to care, and that is more the vibe of Sam's actions. I don't know. Maybe I'm just romanticizing- [laughs]

C: The hunter life?

G: No, soulless Sam. But yeah, I just- Yeah. Didn't like this one.

C: Yeah, this feels very off. Yeah, I don't know if it's just a writing mistake where they were like, "That's probably enough for the viewer to think that they're definitely gonna die of the poison," or if it's a making him out to be more callous than we think that he should be.

G: I think it serves the same purpose as why the wife is so forgiving or so trusting of Sam. It doesn't necessarily align with what is the reality of the characterization or the situation, but it's to accentuate the points that they are trying to make.

C: Perhaps. And what are those points?

G: That like, "Noo! Sam feels so bad!" That's the point.

C: Very true. Yeah.

C: I guess, oh, we should probably mention by this point that Roy is Black.

G: Yeah, and I think he's the only Black character in the episode.

C: Yeah, yeah, all of these women are pale as ghosts. [G: Yeah.] And Supernatural has had a history of having Sam kill Black men as a way of showing that he's going off the rails, [G: Yeah.] like with Jake and Gordon in past seasons, and I don't know what the casting deal here was with Roy. I think it'd be insane if they specifically were looking for a Black man to play this character, [both laugh] but I think that the optics are still the same, and it comes off as quite racist, especially with the, as you, Grey, put it, the shooting them like dogs on the ground part of it.

G: Yeah, and especially because- I mean, okay, they kill Roy again.

C: No, literally! [both laugh] They do it twice! They're like, "Shot in the head isn't enough. Let's also decapitate him." Like, no! Don't do that!

G: Yeah, so, you know.

C: Yeah, yeah. They were like, "Gordon got decapitated. Jake got shot. Let's do both of them on this guy who's literally fine and chill." [G: Yeah.]

C: We're back to Brenna, and she's alone, and Roy comes in, but he's without his glasses. He had glasses before, right?

G: No idea. Probably.

C: Okay. He had glasses in my mind.

G: Well, he has no glasses, whether-

C: [laughs] And that's the only thing that's different about him! He looks like the Arachne-

G: Yeah. He also has blue eyes.

C: Yeah, he has blue eyes. This also happened to my friend Louis de Pointe du Lac, very sad.

G: That's true, yeah. And he has a bullet hole in- Not a bullet. It's a healed-over wound on his forehead, and he looks like he has- he looks like a fire victim. Also, I wasn't actually sure if that was the fire because when they show Arachne-

C: She has something going on with her skin. It's just harder to tell in the black and white.

G: Yeah, so I wasn't sure. But I think this one is combo Arachne situation, but also because he was burned down with that device.

C: Indeed. So he comes in, and he tells her, "I love you." And then-

G: I want to point out, they make a point of saying that the people just want to bury the bodies or whatever this episode as well, which they also said, last episode, which you have said last episode they were trying to parallel some stuff with.

C: I don't remember anything. What are you talking about? What even was the last episode?

G: Last episode, there was a plane crash and the virgins, right? They couldn't find the bodies, and they were saying, "We don't have anything to bury, even."

C: Oh, well, that's not related- Oh, I thought- Okay, I thought they were trying because it was her sister talking about it. [G: Oh.] I thought they were making a "Swan Song" Sam and Dean parallel.

G: I was actually wondering what the no body situation was all about. I suppose Dean also didn't have a body to bury.

C: Yeah, but, you know, Sam was buried. We saw him fall into a big hole!

G: [laughs] So true. And also, we forgot to specifically mention it. They use this guy as bait, which is also a "Something Wicked" reference. I love that idea, that to show that Sam is evil, let's have him use this guy as bait, something Dean Winchester did.

C: It's not explicitly stated in "Something Wicked" that John used them as bait. That was sort of a theory that we had. I don't even know if the writers would say that it was intended.

G: I think it was pretty- I mean, okay, I don't think it was explicit because we only also realized it when we were recording.

C: Yeah, and we haven't seen people post about it like it's real.

G: Except that one poster that I got mad at because they got the ages wrong. I think I am so in deep with Supernatural-

C: Now?

G: No no no, back then, I would be like, "I'm so mad at people who has wrong opinions!" And then, after a while, I was like, "Oh, I've chilled out! I chilled out." I think I'm starting to realize that I only chilled out because I have stopped being on Tumblr all the time. [C: Yeah.] Every time I go on Tumblr and I see a post that I disagree with, I'm like, "How dare you?" So, you know, it's still there.

C: It's still there.

G: It's still pretty much there.

C: Meanwhile, back with Sam and Dean, Sam is calling Brenna to tell her about what happened, I guess.

G: How will he, even? How will he, even?

C: Was he really planning to tell her the whole truth? Or was he just gonna be, "The Arachne took him. [G: Got to him.] And then, when we got to the lair, he was dead or something." [G: Yeah.] I don't know, because he tells Dean to relax when Dean's like, "What are you gonna say?" Sam calls, but then, apparently, Brenna told him to swing by, just casually, but it seems that she's in some kind of trouble. What I thought was gonna happen was that she and Roy were teaming up to kill Sam now because she's pissed at him. I thought that that would be fun. But no, she's not.

G: I hate that she's just standing there the entire time.

C: Yeah, she's like, "No, Roy! Don't kill him!" Whatever. Your zombie husband just came back and said that this guy killed him. I don't know. I feel you are probably in a place where you would be on the zombie husband's side!

They sneak over to her house, and the light is on in the shed. So they go in, and Brenna's curled up in a corner, and she asks Sam, "What you did to Roy. Is it true?" And then Roy, he whacks Dean and then does, you know, the Sam chokehold wall thing and tells him to answer the question. So Sam and Dean are now all spiderwebbed up. Sam tells Roy, "You win. Let Brenna go. This has nothing to do with her." I wasn't aware that she was in any physical danger. Because all we saw earlier was that he showed up and told her that he loved her. That seemed like a normal, nice thing to do. I don't understand what what she needs to be let go from.

G: Yeah, she's literally normal.

C: No, she's not harmed. I can't tell what she's actually afraid of or dislikes about the situation.

G: I don't think she's afraid. I don't think she's afraid of him.

C: She called Sam to come over. Why did she do that?

G: No, I think it's to trap Sam!

C: But is it? Because- but okay. But Sam's acting like Roy has Brenna in his clutches.

G: No, but I think he's just stupid for that.

C: But there's nothing that happens that shows us that Sam's wrong. What happens is Brenna going, "Roy, don't do it!" when he's trying to kill Sam and Dean, which sort of is on Sam's side regarding what's happening here.

G: Yeah, but she's not tied up in any situation, she's not- there's nothing to suggest that she's scared.

C: So why did Sam say it?

G: Because he has an assumption that everyone is out to kill everyone if they're monsters.

C: Does he?

G: Yeah.

C: But okay. But also, Roy responds, right? He says, "It does have something to do with her," which is also him confirming Sam's narrative. He doesn't say, "What? We're literally chilling."

C: No, I think he's confirming that it has something to do with her, but it doesn't mean that he has her captive.

C: I guess. But they they just never really settle what's happening here, I suppose.

G: I mean, I also just find it so- I hate it so much that the entrance to his anger towards Sam is like, "Oh, yeah, you're gonna fuck my wife!"

C: No, yeah. [laughs] He says, "You come back around, start hanging out with my wife, and you think this has nothing to do with her? But then you thought I was out of the way, right?" Like, yeah, no. How is this- [laughs] I think he should just mostly be mad that Sam killed him [G laughs] and used him as bait-

G: And then set his body on fire! That's the part that I was stuck on. I was like, "Who-" And also, I kind of feel like they were into-

C: It's like, "Actually, I'm mad because you wanna fuck my wife"? I don't- They weren't into each other!

G: And also, there's this just general idea of cuckoldry in this episode. [C: Right.] [laughs] Yeah. And nobody even has horns to show for it. [C: For real.] So I don't know. Earlier in the episode, the lady that Sam had sex with in the sink, her husband is shown to be brooding a little bit.

C: Yeah, he's upset about it.

G: Yeah, so I don't know. They had something going on with it. Sam is a cucker. Is that a word?

C: [laughing] Yeah, I think so.

G: It's always so fascinating to me that the word "cuck" is so old. [C: No, yeah, it is.] It's so old. It's such an old fucking word. It's the same way I'm like, [laughs] "They've had tennis for such a long time!" That's how I feel about it, too. [C: True.] Shout out to Challengers or something.

C: Yeah. And then he says that the Arachne wasn't there to feed, she was here to breed. She was turning all of those men into other Arachnes. So by the time Roy was killed, he wasn't human anymore, so the bullet and the fire didn't do anything. So yeah, he said that he was hiding out for months, almost starved, but, you know, what kept him going was how he was gonna get revenge on Sam. So I guess during the hiding out, he figured out everybody Sam fucked and his phone number, [laughs] [G: Yeah.] but it took a whole year and all of that, I guess, because he was starving and adjusting. It's just- as a plot thing, it just doesn't work very well for me.

G: The thing is, I'm not even sure they were conscious that they were doing a hunter parallel, and that's what sucks about this because it's very obviously a hunter parallel, but they don't engage with it in any way that would suggest that they give a fuck that this is the case. So yeah, I don't know.

C: That he was hunting Sam?

G: Yeah!

C: Yeah, yeah. He was hitting up the library of women Sam Winchester fucked.

G: Yeah. "And now he's gonna fuck my wife!" [both laughing]

C: What is this?

G: [laughing] I just don't like this episode.

C: What is this? Yeah. And Roy says that he turned all of the women that Sam had sex with, and he's wondering if he should kill Sam or turn him. But this whole time, Dean has sort of been reaching for a glass shard and getting himself out of the webs.

G: This guy has an eight-eye vision. He didn't see Dean try to get that fucking thing.

C: I guess not. I guess he was focused on Sam or something. But yeah, he attacks Roy, and then Brenna frees Sam from the webs because Roy is maybe gonna kill Dean or something. So she lets Sam go, and then Sam chops off Roy's head, and he's dead. I hate it.

G: I don't understand Brenna as a character.

C: Yeah. What is her deal?

G: And I don't think we are supposed to, because she's not treated like a person. She is a plot device, that's it.

C: She is helpful, and she is there, and the whole time-

G: And she's there to be nice to Sam but mad at him.

C: Yeah, but barely. Just a little bit.

G: Yeah. And so Sam can ask for forgiveness, but she's not even- I think that's the whole thing that they were going for. There's this person who has all the goodness in her heart, is willing to give Sam all the benefit of the doubt, and she still won't forgive him, so it's really Sam's fault. That's the issue that they're going. That's the angle that they're going for. Because I think if they presented someone who was shouting at Sam, "You killed my husband!" then Sam can flagellate with that fucking guilt. But here, he can't because she's not engaging with him. [C: Yeah.] And I think that's what they're going for. I just hate that they have to do this to a character to do it.

C: Yeah, and a woman. If it was a man, I'd be like, "[both] It's fine." [G: Yeah.] This whole episode, she said over and over again, "All I want to do is find out what happened. I've made peace with the fact that he's dead," etc. And they just don't give her a moment to process any of the him coming back. She just goes, "Oh, no, he's trying to kill people now. I don't like it. Sam, get him!" What?

G: She walks back to her house- Oh, she doesn't. Maybe she rides with them. That's why Sam's there. But Sam's tailing her [laughs], and he's saying, "Look, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry, Brenna." And I'm just thinking, "What do you think is gonna happen, Sam?" [C laughs]

C: "Uh, it's okay."

G: Genuinely, what did he think was gonna happen? And I think what I hate about this is something undeniable about Sam's character, which is that he wants to be forgiven. And that is a recurring situation for Sam. That's his deal. He wants to- He is guilty all the time, and he wants to be forgiven for things. This is a situation where that's just not gonna happen. It's just not gonna happen. And so it becomes incredibly self-serving [C: Yeah.] to even seek an apology, or to even give an apology because then, you're placing the onus of forgiveness on the other person. And it's like, 1. It's not gonna happen. 2. If you really care about what she feels, just fucking leave her alone. [C: Yeah.] So yeah, it's frustrating, but it is something Sam Winchester will do.

C: Yeah, that's Sam.

G: Yeah. Anyway, she just doesn't give a fuck. Doesn't even turn around to acknowledge him and just goes into her house. Anyway, we go back to the abandoned house. They're packing up. And Sam says, "Yeah, you're right. We shouldn't have come back here." And Dean basically says, "You have to understand that everything that happened last year is not you." And Sam says, "No, it was. It was me." And Dean's like, "Okay, well, I give up. Do you want anything?" [laughs] And Sam's like, "Whatever, Dean. Shut the fuck up. I'm fine." And Dean says, "You know what? Everything's gonna be okay." And Sam says, "I don't know, Dean. If I did this here, who knows what else I've-" but then, he collapses on the ground. And he is shaking. What's it called? What's it called? He's convulsing, yeah. And Dean goes up to him and we see that Sam's eyes are open, but he seems, you know, out of it. And then we go into Sam's eye, and we see that what he is seeing is that he is burning in Hell. [C: Yup!] End of episode.

C: End of eppysode.

G: Yeah. Well, what do we really think about this episode? It was fine when it's fine, and it's not when it's not. And more of the time, it's not fine than it was fine.

C: Yeah, not so good. Not so good, I think. [laughs]

G: Yeah. Best Line/Worst Line.

C: I think worst line was the whole, "You're gonna come back and fuck my wife thing."

G: Yeah, [laughs] I hated it. Who- I hate it. I think I also- you know what? The opposite of that is my favorite. When Debbie, the woman that Sam had sex with, goes, "What? The boxed stuff doesn't get better with age, Don!" [C laughing] I love that line. So true. [laughs]

C: [laughing] Yeah, so true!

G: I love a horrible wine. I love it. The super sweet ones that are like, "What are we doing here?" I love them. [C: Yeah.] So that's that's my hot take.

C: Yeah, I think I like the exchange at the end where Dean says that "None of it was you," and Sam says, "Let's be crystal-" Wow! Me reference! [G: Whoo!] "Let's be crystal clear, okay? It was me." [G: Yeah.] I liked seeing Sam put his foot down in that way.

G: Yeah, it's so fun that both our names are just words. Love it.

C: Love it.

G: I would say, what is-

C: You already gave your best line.

G: No, my worst line!

C: Oh. You don't agree with mine? [G: Oh, yeah.] You think I'm stupid? [both laugh]

G: I think you're stupid?

C: There's probably other bad ones.

G: There's other bad ones. Let's see.

C: Yeah, we should diversify.

G: Well, I think the whole "Sam has amnesia" thing is hilarious, but every time they were like, "Oh, so you're saying you have amnesia?" I just hated it. [C: Huh.] [laughs] I have the most pointless Best Line/Worst Line this episode. [both laughing] Well, sometimes, your best line and your worst line are completely irrelevant to anything. [C: Sometimes.] Okay, spread those sheets. Let us see BABPod stats.

C: "Unforgiven" is such an unserious episode. I just feel everything else is a reference to something right. And this one, they were we really have to drive home the emotional [G: The point, yeah.] whatever. Let's just call it "Unforgiven."

G: Okay, misogyny. I do think there is some misogyny in the way they portray the women of this episode. I would say... a 1?

C: What would you say? I feel like a 1 is a passing remark. I feel like it's a 2.

G: Okay, it's a 2. Okay, go on. There is racism.

C: Racism, I'd say it's inherent. Maybe not in the planning of it, but in how it's presented.

G: Yeah, I'd say a 3. [C: Yeah.] Homophobia?

C: Homophobia, I don't remember anything of that caliber occurring.

G: Yeah. It's so iconic, the homophobia stats this season. So just for reference, we gave a 3 for Episode 1, which is when they were like, "Wow! You're gay for having a wife." [C laughs] And then a couple 1s here and there, and then we gave a 4 to "Clap Your Hands If You Believe," the worst episode of all time, [both laugh] which we also gave a 4 on ableism for.

C: Yeah. Big win.

G: It's an odd episode, so you guess first. Oh my god, I'm actually tense about our IMDb because there's a chance I may not win.

C: There is a chance. Okay, I don't think people like this [G: Definitely not.] because I've never heard anybody talk about it a single time. Season 6 has been the season of 7s. I think that it is a- Okay, our last 7 was "All Dogs Go to Heaven."

G: What even was "All Dogs Go to Heaven"? Oh, the guy who became a dog.

C: Lucky, yeah. How does this compare to the guy who became a dog?

G: It's honestly pretty similar. [laughs]

C: Okay, I'm going to give it a 7.7. I think it's a guy who became a dog.

G: It has the same emotional core, [both laugh] which is an incredibly funny thing to say. But in my mind's eye.

C: What was the emotional core? Oh, no, it literally ends with him being like- He goes to a woman's house and him being like, "I'm so sorry! I'm so sorry!" and her shutting the door on him. No, it's actually literally that. [G laughs]

G: Yeah, see? I was right. I would give this a 7 point-

C: And he killed her husband, too! [G laughs] Yeah, no, this is literally "All Dogs Go to Heaven." It's a 7.7.

G: Yeah, this is a double feature for- I would give this a 7.8. Ooh! It's a 7.9.

C: What? Oh, fuck! Well, good job. [G: This is good because-] C: We both did quite well, though, at least.

G: Yeah, this is good because it does provide tension to our end of episodes. [laughs]

This one says, "This is worse editing than Battlefield Earth," which is, I'm assuming, a movie that has bad editing. "This episode is filled with flashbacks, and each flashback is done in the worst possible way. [both laughing] They do sideways camera angles and cheap, quick editing as well as black-white contrast. Not only is it physically difficult to watch, but the writing is also hilariously bad. A citizen unlocks a prison cell because they somehow had the key for no reason-"

C: She works there!

G: "- and she says, 'Tie me up so it looks like a breakout. Why would an unlocked cell-" [both laughing]

C: [laughing] "- look like a breakout? People don't break out of prison by unlocking the cell!" No, you're so right! "I can't believe this episode was even allowed to be aired. It's so badly done in every way."

G: I love this! I love this! These are the kind of reviews that we need in our life! Oh, that's wonderful! And it was left behind in 2019! [C laughs]

C: Yeah. The top review mentions that liked seeing the contrast between soulless Sam and soulled Sam so close together within the episode, and I agree with that. [G laughing] You're still stuck on "People don't break out of prison by unlocking the door?" [G laughs] [G: Yeah.] It's really good.

G: [laughing] I just think "Why would an unlocked cell look like a breakout?" [both laughing] is so funny!

C: I mean- Okay. I think it's like, he threatened her- or she unlocked the door to come in, and then he- I don't know.

G: [laughing] No, but she's already tied up! How did she get there? I don't know. I don't know. Well, "The episode is okay. I love the run in with the law thing they had in the beginning seasons, but it gets old." You're gonna hate Season 7.

C: Oh, because of the Leviathans?

G: Yeah. This one compares it to Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, Sam being who he is.

C: Okay. I haven't read it, so.

G: Yeah, I know about the horrible BBC modernized version of it that was directed by the same person who made-

C: Steven Moffat?

G: Yeah, because it was in the video about how Sherlock is horrible.

C: So true. Most important video in the world.

G: Yeah. [laughs] I do think it's an incredibly funny video. I watched it last year, and I think I told you immediately after watching it that I watched it because it was important.

C: Yeah, I've only seen it once, but it remains a very fond part of my memory.

G: Okay, I think that’s it for this episode of Busty Asian Beauties. Next week, we will be discussing Season 6, Episode 14. Can you take a fucking guess what this episode title is?

C: I'm so scared. What? Is this the Titanic one?

G: No.

C: It's not "The French Mistake," is it?

G: Oh my god! We're nearing "The French Mistake"!

C: I can't believe that happened in this season. Like, be fucking for real.

G: When is "The French Mistake"? When is "The French Mistake"?

C: Oh, don't tell me! I want it to be a surprise!

G: Well, next week's episode is "Mannequin 3: The Reckoning." [both laugh]

C: No!

G: Leave us a rating or a review wherever you get your podcasts.

C: Follow us on social media! We are on Tumblr at bustyasianbeautiespod.tumblr.com. And- uh, what else?

G: Check out our merch.

C: Thanks to everybody- Oh, yeah yeah. And our tag is #BABPod, B-A-B-POD. [G: Hell yeah.] Thanks to everyone who's donated to our Ko-Fi at ko-fi.com/bustyasianbeautiespod, and check out our merch at babpod.redbubble.com.

G: You can email us any feedback, comments, or inquiries at [email protected]. See you guys next time! [both] Bye!

[guitar music]

#transcript

0 notes

bustyasianbeautiespod · 2 months ago

Text

Episode 116 Transcript: You’re Just a Baby in a Trenchie

[intro guitar music]

G: Hello, it's Grey.

C: Hello, it's Crystal.

G: And this is Busty Asian Beauties, a Supernatural commentary podcast where I, someone who has seen this show several times...

C: And I, someone who only knows the show through social media, discuss every single episode of Supernatural from start to finish. Also, we are both Asian.

G: Both Asian! For today's episode, we are gonna be discussing Season 6, Episode 12: "Like a Virgin," written by Adam Glass, directed by Philip Sgriccia. Hi, Phil!

C: Completely unserious episode. [G laughs]

G: There was a lot of zooms this episode. I was tricked into thinking this was by Robert Singer, and it's literally not. But it was-

C: He was in drag. Phil Sgriccia was in drag.

G: Literally. And I found it so- honestly, I was like, "Wow, for the first time, the zooms don't feel like they're too extra. They just feel just right." [C laughs] They're well-timed. The zoom in to Sam's face after Cas tells him that he's been walking around with no soul, I was like, "Wow, they really were able to accentuate Jared Padalecki’s acting skills, good for them." And it literally wasn't Robert Singer.

C: Yeah, no he never learned.

G: Thanks, Phil.

C: Thanks, Phil.

G: Yeah, this one aired in February 4, 2011, which is so long because the last one was in December 14. Do you remember?

C: Oh, yeah. So that's why they had a “Road So Far,” I suppose.

C: Yeah, this is the- they're back after the mid-season hiatus. The whole point is to introduce the plot of the second half, basically. And they did do that! They very much did.

C: I just- okay. It's an episode that is meant to be very, I think, emotionally serious, given that it's the “Sam comes back” episode. Why did they pair it with a stupid-ass case, and then spend five minutes of a pretty short episode on “What if Dean was talking to a professor from porn instead of a real one?” [both laugh] And what was all of this? What was all of this? There were good stuff. I was very happy to see Sam again. [G: Very happy.] [laughing] But the use of time was not good. [G laughs]

G: God, I feel so called out. This prof literally is like a professor from pornography. [C laughing] But I love her!

C: God. [laughing] I could not, [G laughing] because of how she was a professor from porn. Pornography.

G: I was both fascinated by and irritated by the fact that they implied that something was up with her and Bobby.

C: Yeah. As if. [laughs]

G: Yeah, first, I was irritated because I'm like, “Oh, fuck off.” But I was also fascinated because I'm like, “What is-” like, Bobby's living the bisexual dream. He's literally having terrible situationships with everyone! And good for him.

C: That's true. The fact that she hates him is quite fun.

G: Yeah. I love that she hates him, Rufus hates him, it's so important.

C: Yeah, exactly.

G: Yeah. Love is love. I have been saying that so much recently, and it's true. Love is love.

C: [laughs] Uh-huh. I agree.

G: What did you know about this episode before going into it?

C: Like, truly nothing, but by the time the second girl gets attacked on screen, I was like, “Oh, wait! This is the dragon episode with dragons who are literally just a man.” [both laugh] So that's all I knew.

G: Yeah, I did not- Prior to watching it for real, I knew a shocking little about this episode. I didn't even know that when Sam comes back, he doesn't remember, initially. I thought the “Cas is alive, too?” is from somewhere else. Where could it possibly be from else?

C: Cas dies so much. Probably... Season 12, it could have happened, right? Cas gets stabbed, Sam gets kidnapped by BMOL.

G: Yeah, I suppose so, yeah. What if in Season 12, [laughs] there is a scene where Sam goes, “Cas is alive, too?” and there's just two of them. There's just two of these scenes.

C: Maybe so.

G: This one has the iconic Sam praying for Cas. Love that scene. I had to slow it the fuck down for an AMV once, [C laughs] and it's been embedded in my head since then. [C: Excellent.] Yeah. And of course, the dragon who is literally just some guy. [C laughs] It's kind of wild. I missed Sam so much.

C: No, same!

G: When they were just doing the case, I was like, “Ah! And Sam's doing a case!”

C: For real.

G: I know that you didn't like the case aspect of it. I mean, I just- I’ve said this over and over again. I love case eps, and this one, it's straddling the line, but it is pretty solidly, I think, in the case ep camp, and I love that. I love a case episode, and I love even more so that Sam is back, doing a case episode. I love Supernatural! Who'd have thunk?

C: I like Sam Winchester and Castiel.

G: Yeah. Sastiel is so real.

C: No, Sastiel’s the realest thing in the entire world this episode. [both laugh] Cas don’t give a fuck about Dean, also. Destiel's super unreal, [G laughs] and Sastiel's super real this episode.

G: Yeah, okay. Well, let's start. We have a very long “Road So Far,” and the song is like, it just repeats, “We're back in the saddle” or whatever throughout the song or something.

C: And they are.

G: And they are back in the fucking saddle. And I don't know. It's just a recap of Season 6. There's nothing creative about it, do you feel like?

C: Yeah, no, I felt pretty disappointed.

G: Yeah, because usually, they do have a theme going on, or something that they repeat and makes you go, “Oh my god, so true!” or whatever. Or just an incredibly funny line-to-lyric situation. But here, it's just whatever.

C: Was there a monster that you- There was a monster I didn't recognize in it.

G: Which one?

C: The big eyes CGI whatever thing? I forgot where that was from.

G: I truly don't know what you're talking about.

C: Okay, yeah. It was a creature. It looked sort of aquatic, it had really big eyes, and it looks very CGI'd.

G: Where did we get a CGI monster in Season 6?

C: I feel like what it was is that it was probably a person most of the episode, and there was a brief moment when its true form was revealed, and I just don't remember what monster that was.

G: Yeah. And I was sniffing, and you were glugging water or something [C laughing] when it happened.

C: Yeah, yeah, I think that is true.

G: Okay, well, we start the episode.

C: I guess the only thing to say about the “Road So Far” is that I think, as has been misused in the past, the Lisa “I need you to go. You're a hunter.” line is used again, and it makes it seem like that's why she broke up with him in the “Road So Far,” and it's not. They were literally having a normal conversation about balancing life in that scene. But oh, well. Sorry, Lisa.

G: What's fascinating is like, I feel like Dean has started to rewrite in his mind the way that relationship fell apart, also. We haven't really heard him talk about it a lot, but I don't know. I'm just excited to see how he does talk about it when he does because, I mean, we're gonna erase those memories soon. So like, [both laugh] we're never gonna see them again.

C: That's crazy that he did that. Dean hasn't even seen them- By that point. Dean hasn't seen them for over half the season. They probably already forgot him! [both laugh]

G: Yes, very easy thing to forget. [C: Yeah.]

G: We start the episode with a good old-fashioned cold open. Like, literally unrelated to- It's not unrelated, but it's not related to the plot. It's just fuck-all. So important. It also looks very bad! [laughs]

C: No, the CGI plane is not good.

G: No, because before watching this episode, Crystal told me, “Hey, there's a plane crash this episode” because I've been having weird whatever anxieties about planes. Very valid, if I must say. I don't think that's an inflated reaction. I think that's literally normal. But I was like, "Oh, there's gonna be a plane crash. Okay, I’ll consider that." [laughing] And then I saw this, [C laughing] and I was like, "It's so far-"

C: "In no world would this upset me, because it looks so stupid"?

G: "This is so far beyond the realm of reality that I'm like, 'It's not happening!'" [C: Real.] And yeah, so it's this super tiny- what is the difference between a plane and a helicopter?

C: I don't know.

G: I don't think this is a helicopter. Because it doesn't have the rotation on the top.

C: Yeah, yeah, I think a plane has the big wings on the sides and the helicopter has the spinny thing on top. Propeller. [laughs]

G: Yeah, and this has the wings on the side, so this is a very tiny plane. So small. Think of the smallest plane you can think of. It's smaller than that. This is crazy small. And it's a two-seater, fully. The pilot is just some guy. [both laugh] It's not like he's a pilot or anything. He's just like a hobbyist plane flyer. And the passenger is this girl. Later, they say she's 22, right? [C: Yeah.] And so yeah, they're a young adult couple. She is terrified because the boyfriend made her go to this flight. They didn't expect that there's going to be so much weather. I don't know. Hijinks happens. She's like, “Oh my god! There's a giant fucking thing flying beside us,” and the guy's like, “No, that's just birds!” [laughs] And then he told her, “Just close your eyes,” and then she did, and then a giant fucking thing gets the boyfriend out of the plane, fully out of the plane, but the plane's still flying. The windshield is gone, and the plane has not changed directions at all? [laughs]

C: It's just a little windy now.

G: Her hair is just being swept by the wind. Anyway, that's the end of it. We don't see her get taken, but don't worry. She does.

C: Yeah, we just hear it scream and fall a bit.

C: So we cut to Bobby’s, and Sam’s soul has been put back in, but he's still not awake. And Dean's standing outside anxiously.

G: Well, we open the door, and it's Cas going out. Or are you just about to say that? I'm sorry.

C: Yeah, I'm about to say that.

G: So important.

C: It is very important that we open the door and Cas comes out.

G: And is rolling down his sleeves.

C: Yeah, you have used this in a certain AMV that I think we've truly never mentioned and definitely don't mention several times per episode. [G laughs] [G: Literally.] But that is what makes them good in bed. [G: Literally.] So he's been giving Sam a checkup, and his soul is there. And Dean's like, “Well, is he gonna wake up?” And Cas is like, “I'm fucking pissed at you. Probably not. He's probably dead forever. Have fun, Dean.” And specifically, he tells Dean, “I warned you not to put that thing back inside him.” And Dean's like, “Well, he was dangerous walking around without a soul,” and Cas-

G: And Cas recommends that he should have just killed him, then. [laughs] [C: Yes.] I mean, he doesn't say it like that.

C: Well, he says that Sam's soul felt like it had been skinned alive, and he's really angry. I feel like we haven't seen Cas be so-

G: He does the menacing walk towards- you know, the-

C: Yeah. [G: Yeah.] When was the last time we've seen him this angry?

G: "I have given- Two of my brothers died this week," blah blah blah. [C: Yeah.] What's the line for that? "Two of my brothers died this week. I gave you everything for nothing. [C laughs] So keep your opinions to yourself." It has the same vibe as that. [C: Yeah, because-] He's also menacingly walking towards Dean. Of course, the other time we see him angry is when he literally beat Dean up in an alley, but yeah.

C: Yeah. Hell yeah, baby. [both laugh]

G: Literally. Do you remember that episode? You were like, "We don't know how to talk about this." [both laugh] And we literally didn't. [C laughing]

C: Yeah. And we didn't. [G laughs] And yeah, and he says, “If you wanted to kill your brother, you should have done it outright.” [G: Yeah.] A real slay. A real slay of a line, I must say.

G: Yeah, and the way that- I feel like Cas is the only one on Sam's side! [C: Yeah.] The way he's so angry here on Sam's behalf, and the way he's so happy later, it's just so nice. [C: It is.] It's so wonderful that he literally hated this guy and left his soul on the fucking Cage-

C: Not on purpose!

G: - And also he didn't answer his prayers for a year, but you know. The prayer thing was on purpose.

C: Out of guilt! [G laughs] Yeah, out of guilt and being very busy. That is probably part of the anger. The guilt.

G: No, yeah. But we can't reveal that yet.

C: Yeah, but I'd like to believe it's just because he wuvs Sam!

G: I mean, I'm sure he feels a thing for Sam. [C laughs]

C: No, no, I agree. I do think that he loves Sam, and that Sam is his family or getting there. But yeah, I think guilt-

G: I don't think Sam is his family! [laughs]

C: Is he not yet?

G: You thinks he looks at Sam and he's like, “Sam, you're my family”? [laughing] Even saying it, that's so weird! [C laughs] [laughing] Is this so mean? I'm trying to say that-

C: Okay, I think maybe post-Godstiel and all of that, I think it is like closer to when that is true.

G: Okay. When do you think Cas starts thinking of Sam and Dean as family? [C: I think-] Well, first of all, I just wanna say, personally, I find the whole thing ridiculous that you have to put the label “family” to someone who's not family to make it valid that, like, they're important to you. I feel like it's one of those-

C: What if they're secretly half-brothers?

G: [laughs] That's a reference to The Kite Runner-

C: Yeah, spoilers.

G: - which is a good book. It's a good book. Oh, yeah, we can't say that!

C: It's not a reference to The Kite Runner. [both laugh]

G: It's literally not. Who wrote- Khaled Hosseini, right? So check it out. Or maybe not. I don't know. We don't know. We don't know anything about it. We've never said anything about it or spoiled it.

C: Yeah, I don't know. Warnings for like, three different child rapes, I guess, if you do read it.

G: I just feel like the whole idea of "We need to say that we're family," it's like they're trying to say that "Family is not the most important thing, and the way we say that is to just assign the other people family." [C: Uh-huh.] So you know, it's still giving primacy to the concept. So first of all, I just want to say that. And then my second thing I want to say is, [laughs] when'd Cas start thinking Sam and Dean as his family?

C: I think before Season 9, so that the being kicked out was such a shock.

G: Interesting question. I don't think so! He was literally gonna lock himself up in Heaven.

C: In when?

G: In Season 8! At the end of Season 8.

C: I mean, that sounds like something anyone would do. [both laugh]

G: Yeah, so true.

C: I also didn't know that.

G: Oh, I'm so sorry!

C: No, it's cool. I have no clue what the context is, so.

G: He's gonna close the heavenly gates and Metatron tricks him, and there was a cut scene where he was supposed to enter a room, and there's naked pictures of Dean in there.

C: Oh, yeah! I think just shirtless.

G: So true. Just like Cas in Season 12.

C: So true. In another deleted scene. Well, when do you think Cas started thinking of them as his family?

G: I think having to choose Dean over Heaven in Season 9 was it.

C: Didn't he also do that in Season 8 in "Goodbye, Stranger" in a way?

G: Yeah, but that one was like too gay, you know? [C laughs] That one was like-

C: Okay. And this was "When did he start thinking of both of them as his family?" so-

G: Yeah, not just Dean. I feel like Season 8 was just Dean, and then Season 9 was like, Sam's also there. Etc.

C: Okay. But doesn't Dean already think of Cas as his family at this point, though, in some way?

G: I think he says in Season 6- I think Dean thinks of Cas as- I suppose- [laughing] The way we're using "family" so nebulously is hilarious.

C: We're using it in the way that [G: Supernatural-] the text we're discussing uses it. I just feel like "The Man Who Would Be King-"

G: Season 6, he will say "You're like a brother to me" or something.

C: Is that in Season 6?

G: No, okay. In Season 6, he goes, "I've lost Lisa and Ben, and now I've lost Sam. Don't make me lose you, too."

C: When did he lose Sam?

G: [laughing] I don't even know.

C: Isn't he so back? Isn't he so back?

G: [laughing] I think it's when Cas takes off the fucking wall.

C: So that's Season 7, then?

G: It's Season 6!

C: When he's begging Cas to be normo? That's fair.

G: At the end of episode 20, which is "The Man Who Would Be King," he tells Cas, "Don't make me lose you, too." And Cas goes, "I can't." And then Dean's like, "Okay, then I'll do whatever I can to stop you." And Cas goes like, "Well, I'm just an-" like- "You're just a man. I'm an angel." [C: Hot.] Literally. I can't wait.

C: Yeah. I think the one I was thinking about was when Dean told Sam, "If this was literally anybody else but Cas, I would have mistrusted and tried to kill him already."

G: No, yeah. [fake-sobs] [C laughs] Yeah, wonderful. "It's Cas!" That's what he said to Bobby.

C: Augh! Whatever, maybe Destiel can be a little bit real.

G: But the thing is like, that's not the Team Free Will as family. That's just Dean and Cas-

C: No, it's just Dean and Cas being a little bit gay.

G: Sam the entire time was like, "No, Dean. He's betraying us." You know?

C: Yeah, yeah, that's true. That's true. Cas doesn't love Sam or view him as his family, I suppose.

G: I think Bobby- I vehemently believe this. Bobby needs to die first [C: Ah.] before Cas replaces him as family.

C: Gets promoted.

G: Yeah, yeah. [laughs] They need to fire Bobby first.

C: Yeah. Yeah, so true.

G: So right now, they're just still gaying it up.

C: But yeah, anyway, the line "If you wanted to kill your brother, you should have done it outright." I mean, I like it because I think, correct. Dean did want Sam to die previously. A good time.

Dean and Bobby drank a little bit and wait for Sam to wake up.

G: Yeah. Bobby says, "Just 'cause it kills your liver doesn't mean it ain't medicine," and you know what? It's true.

C: Sure. [both laugh]

G: I'm not promoting alcoholism. I'm just saying a lot of medicine kills your liver! It's a true fact!

C: That's true. That's true. So yeah, Bobby mentions the plane crash we saw in the cold open as a potential case, which Dean wants to take on as a distraction. He hears from behind him Sam saying, "Dean." And it's Sam and he's back!!

G: I'm so happy.

C: It's Sam! Oh my god. Yeah, I know the whole time soulless Sam was on screen, we were like, "We love him. We think he's so funny." I don't give a fuck about soulless Sam anymore. Hi! I missed real Sam.

G: Literally. Later, when he finds out, and then he stops himself from confronting Dean there and then, I was like, "Saaaam!"

C: That's Sam!

G: Yeah, because if he was soulless, he would have just done it, you know?

C: Yeah or not done it and tried to kill him. [laughs]

G: Yeah, but the fact that that is him trying to be like, the emotional sensitivity of "I can't burden Dean with this before we finish the case." [C: Yeah.] I don't know. The thing is that, I think I said when soulless Sam was happening that "Sam should have just been, you know, like this. He should have been like this towards Dean the whole time," blah blah blah. But the reality of the situation is Sam is a thoughtful person, and he's so caring, and I don't know, you know? I think it poses such an interesting question of like, what makes a person themself? And soulless Sam was Sam, but I don't know. The way Sam words it later, it's very fascinating. I was deeply fascinated by it. And also, I missed him tremendously.

C: Yeah, yeah. I saw him doing his little facial expressions, and it did make me almost tear up.

G: Yeah. [laughs] Can you believe that Supernatural is a TV show that we like?

C: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't really believe that other part. [both laugh] But it is a TV show.

G: That's true.

C: Yeah. And Dean stands up in shock, and then Sam goes over to him and hugs him soo tightly. And it's meant to be a very deliberate departure from their 6.01 hug where Sam's like, "Okay!"

G: Yeah. And Dean was the one doing the emo thing. Dean is actually primarily just shocked.

C: Sam sees Bobby, and he's so happy to see this man who loves him like a coworker who tried to kill him.

G: Literally!

C: He hugs him, and then he goes, "Wait. I felt Lucifer snap your neck." And Bobby goes, "Well, Cas, he-" and Sam goes, "[both] Cas is alive?" and he's so happy about it! He's so surprised and so happy about it.

G: Yeah, it's not just a passing remark. They linger on it, and I'm so happy that they do. [C: Yeah, yeah.] I'm thinking of the last conversation that they must have had at this point was Sam telling Cas, "Take care of Dean and Bobby!"

C: And Cas going, "Can't do it. But okay."

G: "So you want me to be- you want me to lie?" He's so iconic.

C: He's soo iconic.

G: I suppose I didn't really think of Cas and Sam as friends in Season 5, not particularly, but-

C: Cas warns Anna to stay away from Sam and not hurt him in a very intense way.

G: Yeah. But like, do they have bonding moments? Do they ever bond? [laughs]

C: Probably not profoundly, but-

G: So true! And Cas did explicitly say this. But it's nice to know that Sam seems very fond of him, even still. That's his buddy.

C: He's his buddy. He says that he's starving, so yeah.

G: Which supports my theory that soulless Sam didn't need to eat.

C: Yeah, he might have done it less often.

G: It could have been also just that he was asleep for like, [laughs] god knows how fucking long.

C: Yeah, that's true.

G: So it could be anything. It doesn't support nor deny anything. Unfortunate. [C: Yeah.] He's gouging on the sandwich. Bobby and Dean are trying to whittle out what Sam remembers, and we get flashbacks of "Swan Song" to tell us that Sam is being for real. [laughs] He's not lying about the fact that this is what he remembers. And all he remembers is going into the pit and then waking up a couple of minutes ago. And Bobby is trying to press. He is trying to press, but Dean keeps on stopping him. Apparently, it's been a year and a half. So it's been half a year since the beginning of the season. So how long do you think has it been since Lisa and Ben?

C: Huh, okay.

G: Like 3 months?

C: Wait, okay. The last time that they talked in any way was in "You Can't Handle the Truth," which was 6.06? [G: Okay.] So yeah. But also, I feel like the hiatus is- No, no, it doesn't actually mean anything. So yeah, three months.

G: Yeah, anyway, Sam asked, "Was it Cas? Dean goes, "Nuh-uh!" And Sam starts accusing Dean of having done it and Dean goes, "Me and Death-"

C: Having done a deal or something.

G: Yeah. "Me and Death-" and Sam's like, "Death? The horseman?" But Dean is like, "No, it's over. Slate's wiped. It's fine. Don't worry about it." Sam asks pointedly if there's anything else he needs to know, and Dean just goes, "No." Hell yeah. Love lying.

C: Yeah. And Bobby's not enjoying any of this.

G: I was wondering what Dean's game plan is. 'Cause Bobby points it out, right? "What are you trying- He's gonna find it out. At some point, he's gonna figure it out, or somebody's gonna tell him." And he did both. Good for him. He's so smart.

C: He's just trying to have a nice week. I think that's really it. [laughs]

G: Yeah. I suppose it's not- To be fair to Dean, I never considered that maybe the reason why he's hiding it from Sam is because he knows Sam will be guilty. [C: Mm.] I don't even know what I thought he was hiding it to Sam for.

C: To prevent the wall from coming down, I think, is what he says explicitly.

G: Okay, you're right. That one. But I thought it was just like a- I don't know. Like a power trip thing.

C: [laughs] Oh, really?

G: Yeah, but, you know, like, "Oh, this is a situation I have control over." [C: Huh.] And he must have felt so powerless with soulless Sam because of how soulless Sam acted and felt and etc. And so there must be a part of him that is vying for that control back, and that's how I felt about a lot of what he was doing this episode, like, I don't know. I mean, yeah, it is so that the wall doesn't crumble, fall to dust, and disappear. But yeah. That's the thing. I'm like, "It's not for Dean. It's not Dean's call to make," but also, I suppose it kind of is. I don't know. I don't know. But I never- I don't know. Maybe this is just lacking on my part, but I never really considered that part of the equation would be "Sam's gonna feel so bad." [C: Yeah.] Yeah. Even though I explicitly mentioned that as one of the ways Dean can guilt soulless Sam into doing better, by telling him, "When you get your soul back, you're gonna feel so horrible." [C: Yeah, yeah.] Yeah, don't worry. He'll still feel horrible.

C: Sure will. I think I read it as, you know, not wanting the memories to come down. I don't think I was thinking about the Sam being guilty thing that much, either. I think what I was thinking was more just that, those siz months were horrible, and Dean also wants to forget that they happened. [G: That's true.] He's just so happy to have his brother back that he wants it to be as smooth as possible, and as easy to forget the six months as possible.

G: Yeah, but my perspective was like, "That's not his call to make!"

C: Yeah, I agree.

G: But you know, etc.

C: I'm glad Cas told him. And also- I don't know. We can get to it when we get to it, but Cas tells him in a way that implies that Cas never thought that Dean would keep it from him, which I feel like if you know Dean, [laughs] is not a super valid assumption to make.

G: Yeah. I love that entire scene. It's so wonderful. It's good Sam character work. It's good Cas character work. I just love it.

G: Yeah, anyway, right now, where we are is Bobby's- what is it? Hemming and hawing? That's what people say, right?

C: People say that.

G: It's hem and haw? What a weird combination of words! Yeah. But he is doing such weird combination of things. He's fixing up his car. And the funny thing is, at the beginning of this conversation, he is speaking at a normal voice. The conversation is going, "What are we doing? Why don't we just tell him? Is this the right thing to do? He tried to kill me. I just have to forgive that? What's that about?" And literally, my thought was like, "Yeah, you have to. Fuck off, Bobby."

C: No, literally.

G: Like, stop being so stuck up! Shut up!

C: Also, Bobby's been possessed by a demon and tried to kill Dean. [G: Yeah.] I feel like all of them, have at some point, their bodies have tried to kill the other one.

G: Yeah. I did just say that Dean should tell Sam, but right now, I'm completely on Dean's side. Shut the fuck up, Bobby. [C: Mm.] What's funny is Dean just goes, "Okay, Bobby, one day. But can we just leave it alone for now?" And Bobby goes, "Okay, fine." And then he turns around semi-defeatedly, but he starts talking so loudly, [laughs] and I just was thinking, like, "Is he trying to get Sam to hear?" He's like, "Okay, fine, Dean." And then he turns toward the direction of where Sam is like, "But you know, if Sam finds out, [C laughs] he's gonna realize this, Dean!" and it's so hilarious. I think so fucking funny.

C: Pretty funny.

G: Bobby said, "What if he hears it from someone, specifically me during this conversation, where I'm shouting every word?" [C laughs]

Bobby and Dean are now underway to the case. You know, earlier this case, they do a Buddy Holly joke. Or not a joke, but they do a Buddy Holly reference. And I was like, "I know what that's about!" [laughs] Anyway, that's not a laughing matter. I just was amused that I finally figured out something that Dean is saying without having to look it up. [C: Hell yeah.] But they're supposed to go. But then Sam shows up and he's like, "Wait, no, I wanna come!" And Dean goes, "Okay, okay, the three of us, then." But Bobby, very- Bobby's not a good actor. He's like, "Um, yeah, I'm so sorry. I need to talk to Rufus or whatever. I don't know." [C laughs]

C: Yeah. "I told him I'd work the phones for him, meaning have phone sex with him. So, bye!"

G: He is so awkward. He's smiling the weird Bobby smile that he does. [C laughs] [laughs] Sorry for calling Bobby's smile "the weird smile that he does," but you know what I mean. And Sam starts going, "What's that about? Why is he so weird?" But Dean just denies that this is happening.

C: A lot of music this episode. A song starts playing on the car radio. I don't recognize it. Apparently, it's Jethro Tull's "A New Day Yesterday," though. Appropriate.

G: What other songs are there?

C: Well, okay, the cold- Okay, I think it was mostly thinking about the- I'm sorry. The "Road So Far" song. And then there's a lot of use of music for comedic effect [G: Oh, yeah, the-] when Dean's talking to the porn professor.

G: Stop calling her the porn professor!

C: Alright, sorry.

G: Her name's Dr. Visyak, or whatever. I forgot.

C: When Dean's talking to Dr. Visyak. [G: Yeah.] So Sam's on the phone. He's talking to some kind of police officer [G: Yeah.] about two disappearances in town.

G: And he goes, "So get this." [screams]

C: He does! He does go, "So get this," and I did start clapping and cheering.

G: Yeah. And I for some reason miss the "It's night, and Sam's calling some fuck-all guy." I missed it! I feel like we haven't seen it a long time, and it's so important to call someone and then go, "So get this" afterwards.

C: So there were two girls who vanished from places where you would not expect them to, and they had no connection to each other. And then Sam starts asking Dean about the year away, and he says, in a slightly teasing, slightly admonishing way, "[both] So you never even tried to go live a life after I died. You do remember that you promised that, right?" Dean's very tense about the whole situation. And he asks, "What makes you think I didn't?" And Sam says, "Because look at you. [both] You're exactly the same." So true. Love it.

G: I love that line. I just- I don't know. I thought it was so charming.

C: And then Dean says that he was with Lisa and Ben for a year, but that it didn't work out. They arrive at the house of Penny, the girl who died in the cold open, and they're talking to her sister, and they make a big deal this episode to be like-

G: Of her room.

C: - and Sam's going to lead all of the interrogations in a way where he makes really sympathetic eyes at everybody and says things like, "I understand." way more than Sam usually does on cases when he has a soul, just to really drive home the difference between soulless Sam and souled Sam.

G: I think it got a little bit- What's so funny is they only do this thing with Sam where he becomes super empathetic when he's about to fuck that woman, you know? [both laugh] They did it with Madison, and they did it with Sarah. And like that's literally it. They did it with "Hook Man" girl. And that's literally it. The "Hook Man" thing was still wild. Why were they doing all that? [C laughs]

C: I don't know. I don't know. And Jess didn't really come up at all that episode, did she? [both laugh] Or I guess she did. I think he talked about her before kissing that girl. Is that real?

G: I don't remember anything about that episode anymore, [laughs] just that we gave Sam five points [both laughing] back when our point system was just completely different.

C: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, her sister doesn't want to talk, but Sam makes sympathetic faces at her until she's like, "Okay. I guess you're so nice that I will talk to you."

G: [laughing] He's just like, "Pwease! Pwease let us talk to you!" and it works. Good for him.

C: They go to her room, which is-

G: And I point out the pointing out the room because, as you remember, Phil Sgriccia is also the guy who is known for the disco room, or whatever that was. [C: Yes.] But this time, the room is relevant. They make a point of pointing out-

C: It's not. I mean, the picture maybe is. The rest is not. Only Dean thinks it's relevant.

G: No, literally. What a wild- Okay, let's continue first.

C: Yeah, so they go to her room, and it's painted pink, I think, and there's a bunch of stuffed animals, and there's a framed photo next to the bed of the guy flying the plane. Just him.

G: So weird.

C: Yeah. Supernatural- remember when Kate Milligan had a framed photo-

G: Yes. And it was the photo that falls right before she gets killed. [laughs]

C: Yeah, yeah. But that one, she was in it, too, right? It was her and John.

G: Yeah, her and John and- wait, no.

C: So I think that's more normal. Yeah, I don't think Adam was there. Having both of you, I think that's fine. Having just that guy, why? [laughs]

G: Yeah. Is he a father that died when you were really young? [both laugh] What's that about?

C: No, literally. Her sister is saying that she was very shy and not adventurous, but she loved Stan so much that she was willing to go on this plane with him. She's very sad. She says, "I just wish I told her to stay home. We don't even have a body to bury."

G: Which, that did make me sad.

C: And I was like, "Okay, so there will be mirrors?" But there were no mirrors this episode [G laughs] because it's a deeply unserious case.

G: No, literally.

G: So now we go to Sam and Dean. They're in the usual setup of motel room. What he has found is that all of these girls that have gone missing "bake cookies for the Lord" is how he puts it, so they're very like church choir-y, blah blah blah, promise ring clubs. At first, Dean asked, "Oh, is it a prayer thing?" But Sam says, "No, Penny wasn't Christian, but she just had a promise ring."

C: I don't think she had a promise ring.

G: Ah, they found out that she's a virgin because of the diary that Dean steals.

C: Yeah. And also, she has stuffed animals in her room! [laughs]

G: No, okay. So Dean says that he has a theory, which is that- And then he pulls out a notebook that is black- They should have made it pink if they're gonna stick with the theme. Come on, guys. Sam slightly admonishes him for stealing it from the room. And I did find it a little bit charming when Dean goes, "Oh, I love that you even asked me that." Aw, yeah!

C: Yeah, it is a him missing old Sam thing, it's fun.

G: And Sam goes like, "Why wouldn't I?" because he doesn't know anything. And so Dean just goes, "So all these girlnappings," he calls, "it's not about religion. It's about purity." because he thinks they're all virgins. And Sam has this whole bit where he was like, "That's impossible! [C laughs] She's 22!"

C: Yeah, well.

G: Hilarious.

C: Hilarious.

G: Yeah. What a wild thing. I feel like- I don't know. I don't know. I'm not American. We have a different disposition. But even- I don't know. Are people like- I don't know. I don't know.

C: I recall that in college I feel like most people weren't virgins, but I don't know if that most was like, 51 or like, 85, you know what I mean? I don't know where it was at.

G: I think most people in my life are virgins, but I also, for some reason, only befriend people who have never dated in their life. [laughs] So like, who knows? Yeah. And their argument for why she's a virgin is she has a pink room. Well, Dean's argument for why she's a virgin is because she has a pink room, which I have! Stuffed teddy bears- don't have, unfortunately.

C: I do, and I'm a virgin, so I guess Dean's right.

G: No, but I have the pink room and no stuffed animals, and I'm not a virgin, so like, it's-

C: It's true. I have the stuffed teddy bears, but I don't have a pink room.

G: We don't have the full combo, so we'll never know.

C: No, you're right.

G: His like blazing gun is that he opens a diary and there's a line about how Penny is gonna give her "most precious gift" to Stan. [C laughs] And he reads the phrase, and Sam's like, "That's so fucking weird and creepy." And Dean goes, "I think I delivered it," which that line- like this entire scene. I was mildly uncomfortable. But when Dean goes, "I think I delivered it," I was like, "Okay, well, that's a bit funny." Do you think that's true or not true? Do you disagree? What are your thoughts. [both laughing]

C: I don't think it's that deep.

G: I think it was funny!

C: I have no thoughts on anything ever.

G: Yeah. Sam's like, "Okay, so now, we need to find a monster that wants virgins."

C: Yeah. And Dean mentions twice this episode, "Being a virgin is bad because they're bad at sex."

G: They're corny, tired, and played out.

C: So we are now at some high school or college that is Catholic. And so there's this woman or girl, and she's walking, and then we hear wingbeats, not in an angel way. And then monster POV towards her face as she gets attacked. And she wakes up in the hospital, and Sam and Dean go over to interview her. And she says that she was attacked by something that looks like a giant bat, and Sam's very like, "I believe you. I don't think you're crazy," etc. And she's kind of scratched up, and she says that she passed out after it attacked her.

G: I did love the look of the large scratches on her back. I think they do their makeup well.

C: Yeah, agreed. She says that something else that happened is that it stole her gold purity ring. And Dean is like, "I need to test a theory." [both laughs] [G: Yeah.] And he goes, "Melissa, look. Nobody is judging anybody here, okay?"

G: You know what? It never even crossed my mind that like it didn't take her because she's not a virgin. [laughs] [C: Yeah, same.] I was amazed at Dean's quick thinking.

C: Yeah. Also, how does it know? From a distance, it thought she was a virgin, and then from up close, it could tell she wasn't? How?

G: The logistics of how this works, of course, whatever, who even knows? [C: Yeah.] I think also just the idea that- I don't know. Dean is so- I don't know. A lot of things are going through my head in this scene. [both laugh] [C: Yeah.] I cannot word any single one of them.

C: Okay. Do you wanna try?

G: [laughs] No. The way he tries to wheedle it out of her-

C: No, it's- Yeah. He tries to make her feel like shit. That's how he does it. [G: Yeah.] He goes, "Yeah, nobody is judging anybody here, okay, believe me. But should you really be wearing that ring?"

G: No, that is a wild thing to ask that question.

C: Yeah. In what way would she be like, "This is pertinent to the discussion at hand."

G: Yeah. And like, I think that's one of the things with Supernatural, they would ask all of these invasive questions, posing as FBI agents, [C laughs] and they'll like reveal anything. And they have this steadfast rule of "We should never tell anyone about anything supernatural," and it's making all of these people's lives worse. Imagine if- 'cause what I interpret, if I was Melissa, right, how I would interpret this is "It attacked me because I was lying about being a virgin." [C: Yeah.] And how fucking traumatizing!

C: No, yeah. And also, everyone can tell that I'm not a virgin, and this guy was sent by God to guilt me about it.

G: And from how she reacts to it, she already feels bad that she's not. [C: Yeah.] So I don't know. What a wild combination of things to be said and done.

C: But yeah, she eventually says that there's some guy that she slept with once.

And they exit the hospital, and we hear Sam say, "So what? You think Batman tried to rape her?" And then we hear Dean say, "Well, he does carry a lot of rage." And I just think it's- I think that it's an off-color joke, and that in this episode where they make such a point to be like, "Sam is different now. He's very sensitive now. He's a cool, nice guy again," the fact that he says this and then Dean says this, and Sam doesn't comment on it at all is a fascinating look into the mind of Adam Glass.

G: No, this is what I was trying to say with the homophobia in- whatever the fuck that episode is.

C: Uh, "Clap Your Hands If You Believe."

G: Yeah, with "Clap Your Hands If You Believe," it's like, "Oh, Sam is like whatever he doesn't care. He doesn't care." But for this specific thing, homophobia transcends a person's soullessness. And here, it's "Jokes like this transcend soul versus soullessness." [C: Yeah.] And it's fascinating, as I've said, what is defined as "just how people are." And here, he is already supposed to have the moral compass or whatever, the filter, and it's still the same. It's like a little bit wild. And also, I did not even connect the dots of what was happening here instantly. Because the scene before it there is a girl, looking at the screen, teary-eyed, going, "Matt Barne didn't count." And then cut to Sam going, "So what? You think Batman raped her?"

C: So you thought Matt Barne raped her, and that was what made her quote-unquote "not a virgin"?

G: Yeah. I mean, I couldn't figure it out immediately. [C: It's tough.] And I don't know. It's just like a weird thing- And obviously, that's not- that's me, comprehension-wise. That's on my side. But like, I don't know. I was like, "Oh, okay, what a weird joke! What a weird thing to say, and a weird way to put it." and etc, etc.

C: Yeah, yeah, indeed. But yeah, Dean says that "And then it didn't take her because she was already dehymenated," which I don't like as a "How did he figure it out."

G: Yeah. And then Dean makes a comment about how "See? Having fun, it's all upsides!" Fuck off, Dean.

C: Yeah, fuck off, Dean. And they're like, "Well, I don't know who this is." Dean makes a P. Diddy joke. Did he rape somebody? Or what was his deal?

G: You don't know?

C: I remember something is up with P. Diddy. I don't know what.

G: Well, he is very in trouble with the law regarding-

C: Ah. I'm seeing sex trafficking. That's no good.

G: Yeah. And it's revealed recently the full extent of it. But apparently, in 2011, people are already making jokes that he's like that.

C: Though Sam says it's comforting that "Even after I died for a year and came back, you're still not funny."

G: [British] Not funnay. You didn't say it the correct way! [C: Sorry.] There's only one correct way to say "Not funnay."

C: Sorry. "You're still not funnay."

G: Yeah. And Dean goes, "Shut up. I'm hilarious." And they get into the car in a supposed to be like, "haha!" way. I don't know. [both laugh] I did go, "haha!" a little bit, so maybe it worked.

G: They're back in their motel. Sam's Googling, Sam's Googling. And I had the thought, like, "Sam must have figured out that he was back because he had a laptop. Why is his laptop still there? He has a laptop?" [laughs]

C: Why not?

G: You know what I mean- You think Dean kept his laptop the entire time?

C: Why wouldn't he?

G: Well, it's just that there must have been tabs open in that thing. There must have been new files. Did he not download a single file in one and a half years?

C: Maybe Sam's like, "Dean's been using my laptop" [G: Oh, that's true.] because in the past, Dean didn't even have his own, right? There was only Sam's laptop.

G: That's true. You know what? The World of Warcraft website that they showed-

C: I thought it was Busty Asian Beauties.

G: I thought it was Busty Asian Beauties. I thought, honestly, what I thought was gonna happen was, they're going to make a gag about "I can't believe it, Dean! You were watching porn on my laptop!"

C: "While I was dead, you used my laptop to jack off."

G: Literally. Because he starts the scene going, "This can't be possible!" And I literally was like, "There's a virus. It's gonna kill his laptop forever." [C laughs] [C: Yeah.] But what he's saying is, when he googles fire, claws, flying, stealing virgins, and gold, all that comes up is World of Warcraft fansites.

C: The only place where dragons are ever mentioned on the Internet.

G: Yeah. Where else are dragons mentioned? I'm sure DnD or something.

C: Most mythology? Not most. A lot of mythology.

G: All cultures, yeah.

C: All cultures. [laughs] I mean, European, the one that exists a lot, and Chinese, the one that exists a lot in my life. So all my cultures. [both laugh]

G: Yeah, so true. Aren't they called something else? Oh, no! Like, in Chinese? Is it also "dragon"?

C: You mean the word "dragon" in Chinese? [laughs]

G: Yeah? [laughs]

C: Dragons are called the word in Chinese for "dragon" in Chinese, I think. [both laughing]

G: No, [laughing is it like a dumple/dumpling situation?

C: [laughing] What?

G: [laughing] I was like, maybe it's a dumple/dumpling situation. Nobody knows that joke.

C: So true. I'm sure we already explained it once. At some point in a podcast, Will Wood says, "It's so great that the Chinese called dumplings 'dumplings' because they really look like that." But "dumplings" is not the word for dumplings in Chinese.

G: [laughing] I think you know what I was trying to ask.

C: What?

G: There's like a difference- [laughing]

C: There's a word for-

G: Mythologically, there's a different-

C: Yeah, yeah, there's no virgin stealing and gold. I mean, maybe there's some gold. But yeah, no, they they do have different behaviors. [both laugh]

G: Yeah. No, but like, there's dragon, and then there's something else.

C: Yeah, I think people- Well, people say Western dragon and Eastern dragon sometimes [G: Do they really?] to differentiate them because they have different default looks and behaviors.

G: Maybe I'm thinking like, dinosaurs. [both laugh] Okay, well, whatevs. Sam is trying to be like, "I don't know if it's a dragon! We don't know. We don't know. Is it a dragon? We don't know." And so Dean calls Bobby, and Bobby says the most fascinating thing in the world.

C: Bobby's cooking.

G: He's cooking.

C: And not on the grill.

G: Yeah, they make a point of showing him cooking, and there's a point where he's sitting down and Dean calls again or Sam calls or something, and he's like not touching his food, too. He's just looking at it. And I was like, "Is this a parallel to the pie?" Do you remember the pie?

C: Yeah, of course, I remember the pie. I think what it was, because the spoon was sticking out of his food, and I think he tried to move it, and it was kind of stuck. I think it was like the phone call made him cook it bad, so the texture is off now or something?

G: So true, so true. Could never happen to me. Dean asks, "What do you know about dragons?" And Bobby says the most fascinating thing. "Dragons? They're not like the Loch Ness monster! Dragons aren't real!" Love it. [C: Love it.] Yeah. And Dean is like, "No, but can you please just look it up? Pwease, pwease, pwease?" And Bobby goes, "Okay." And then he asks, "Okay, so how's Memento doing over there? Has he been caught in any lies yet?"

C: "Have you been caught in any lies to him yet?"

G: [laughs] So true. "He caught you in any lies yet?" is what he actually says. And Dean goes, "Well, whatever. Everything's fine. Sam says hi. Bye!" He hangs up. Sam starts getting even more suspicious, and he's like, "What's that about?" Whatever, he's also looking through the pages. And Dean is saying, "Hey, there's not any dragons there because we've read that thing to hell and back, and there's no dragons." But as Sam is flipping through the pages, he's like, "Did we hunt something recently?" And Dean's like, "I don't know. I don't know what you're talking about." And he's starting to experience deja vu. And Dean does look like he's about to start getting worried because obviously, he doesn't want that wall scratched.

C: I think Dean definitionally gaslights Sam by being like, "Remember, your brain's still crazy right now!" [laughs]

G: Yeah. So Bobby gives Dean a call back, and he says, "I can't believe she didn't jump right to my mind. Dr. Visyak. Medieval Studies, SFU." And Dean's like, "Okay, let's go!"

C: Yeah, I don't understand why he drove all the way to San Francisco without calling her first.

G: Well, I don't know. Sometimes, people don't pick up. [both laugh]

C: Fair enough.

G: Sam didn't go because he said that he is going to study the lore more because dragons are in caves or something and start to figure stuff out. I do wonder why they didn't-

C: He's trying to figure out the lair location.

G: - why he didn't just bring Sam there.

C: To SFU? [G: Yeah.] Yeah, I don't think he should be left alone. Or I feel like I would be too worried to leave him alone.

G: That is the Watsonian perspective. I'm thinking more like, obviously, it's so that he can call Cas. But he can just step out for a bit and call Cas outside, you know? It doesn't necessarily mean that he has to be left behind. My ideas are-

C: I don't think he would step out if Dean was there.

G: No, you know, maybe he's like- I don't know. He can, is what I'm saying.

C: "Me and Cas need to talk in private."

G: Yeah, but he doesn't have to stay behind. And my ideas are, I don't think they want him trying the sword.

C: Mm. Interesting.

G: Yeah, I don't think they can reconcile Sam, when he they just got him back, and he's fully soulled up, and his whole bit is he's a good person, and he's so pure of heart, whatever. I don't think they can reconcile having him not pull it out of the stone. And so they left him. [C: Yeah.] Sam gets Thor's hammer, I think, at some point, and people make a fuss about it, but I don't really remember much about it. [C: Hm.] So I don't know. Love Sam or something. I don't know. [both laugh]

C: Yeah. I feel like Professor Visyak was being kind of facetious about the "you can pull it out if you're a hero that's brave of heart." [G: Yeah.] I don't think it actually had that property to it.

G: No, I think it did. I think it did. And love is love.

C: Okay, it did, and they were trying to make a point that Dean sucks while goofy music was playing? [both laugh]

G: Yeah. And I just don't think they can do that shit with Sam. They can't goof it up with Sam trying to pull that thing out.

C: I think if Sam tried it first only briefly, and then Dean was like, "Step aside. I got this," and then he fell, I feel like that would have worked.

G: I also think Jensen Ackles is just better at comedic acting than Jared. [C: Sure.] So they were like, "Let's play up to Jensen's strengths." Jensen Ackles's strengths.

C: There's a scene where the dragon is- he's in the sewers, and there's this grate under which a bunch of girls that he's kidnapped are there, and they're not having a good time. Their clothes are torn, they're crying, they're bloody, etc. And then he's bringing in a new girl, who's, you know, screaming and saying, "Please let me go," etc. He breaks her arm and then shoves her in there, and Penny from the beginning tries to comfort her.

G: Yeah. And there's a whole bit about how his hand [C: Yeah.] really heats the fuck up, and it melts the gate, which does make you wonder, how the fuck did Sam and Dean open that thing up? Did they?

C: We didn't see it, but I assume they did or called someone who could, eventually.

G: That's probably true. Yeah.

C: Yeah. But yeah, so yeah, he uses his very hot hand to weld together the grate so that it's impossible for anyone to escape because at the beginning of the scene, Penny is trying to get the top open.

G: Can I just say, supernatural does not mean magic. Those are different ideas. Do you understand what I mean? It just looks- Obviously, dragon who's just some guy is already goofy as fuck, [C laughs] but having him have magic warming hands [laughs] is so like, what is this?

C: Well, I'm just disappointed that they were like, "Making him breathe fire like a dragon is dumb! [G: It's too much.] He just needs to have super hot hands."

G: [laughs] Literally.

C: It's silly.

So we go to Dr. Visyak's. It's her house, [G: Yeah.] but when Dean buzzes, she's like, "It's not office hours yet." Does she hold office hours in her home? In her personal home?

G: I mean, she obviously has a collection.

C: Yeah, I suppose.

G: I'm assuming she shows people around, yeah.

C: Yeah, I don't know. I feel like there should be rules around that.

G: Office hours Monday and Friday, two times a week, is probably fine. And also, we don't know-

C: Yeah, I just think she should have an office.

G: What kind of doctor is she? Bobby explicitly says [both] medieval studies. I don't know. Maybe she's retired, and she's just hanging out. [laughs]

C: Why does she have office hours if she's retired?

G: Well, sometimes, somebody wants to consult you as an expert, not necessarily as an academic superior.

C: I feel like they wouldn't be like "This is a professor at this university... but she's retired. [G: So true.] And by office hours, she means fellow professionals who come by." [laughs] [G: So true.] Yeah, Dean says that Bobby sent him, and then Dr. Visyak opens the door, and the point of her is that she's hot. [both laugh]

G: Well, she is hot.

C: Yeah, but she stands and talks in a way that feels unnatural because the point of her is to be hot.

G: Yeah, I did feel a little bit- [laughs] Now I'm embarrassed to say. 'Cause most people in Supernatural- I was actually wondering-

C: It's nice that she's a MILF. Dean's historically not that into milves. Is that your point? [laughs]

G: No, no, no. What I'm trying to say is, I was actually thinking a lot about what I was seeing in this scene because [C laughs] she's a very attractive woman, obviously. And I kept on thinking, "What's that about?" [laughs]

C: What do you mean?

G: What I mean is, there are rarely people in Supernatural who are generally my type, and so when I saw her, I was thinking, "Do I find her really attractive because out of all the people in Supernatural, this is like the closest to what I would think as attractive in real life, or is the show trying to do it on purpose?" And I couldn't figure it out. Literally couldn't figure it out. So it is fascinating to hear you just straight up go like, "They're trying to do like a porn professor fantasy."

C: Yeah, [laughs] that is her entire thing.

G: So yeah. Who would have thunk? Not me. I didn't think it.

C: Yeah, well, okay, she's wearing a very- a very low-cut top-

G: She's not showing cleavage or anything.

C: She is!

G: Was she?

C: She is.

G: I think she just had beautiful hair. [laughs]

C: Yeah. She's also wearing a very deep V-neck dress.

G: That's not true!

C: Yeah, it is.

G: It was purple. I know that. Wait, let's look it up.

C: I'm pretty sure it was blue, but it could be a situation where it's purplish-blue, and we just categorize the colors differently.

G: There is a possibility that it's fully blue.

C: Is it?

C: Wait, let's look it up. Supernatural. [typing]

C: I feel like it was fully blue, if you asked me. But maybe I'm wrong.

G: I think it is blue.

C: Fully?

G: Sowwy. Sowwy. Sowwy!

C: And would you say that it was a deep V-neck and that she was showing cleavage?

G: Wait, I'm looking. It's not loading. Wait. Come on!

C: It's fully blue, and she's showing a little bit of cleavage.

G: I don't think she's showing a lot! Do you really think she's like a porn professor? I think she's just a normal, very good-looking woman.

C: Okay. When she shows up, there's a musical sting, and Dean looks her up and down. [G: That's true.] And then the rest of the scene, she keeps standing, even though she doesn't need to, and cocking her hip, and saying things about how "Oh, and I had to sleep with this person in order to get this artifact."

G: Did she say that? [laughs]

C: Yes!

G: I think she just said it took twenty years of hard work.

C: Including very mediocre sex with a certain person! Look at the line.

G: Did she literally say that?

C: Yes! [laughs]

G: Oh, okay, she does- she is showing cleavage. But that doesn't mean anything!

C: She's showing cleavage. She says, "Finding it took two decades, countless hours, and some really bad sex with an Eastern European ambassador." It does mean things [laughs] because they made deliberate costumes choices, and most people don't wear dresses on Supernatural. Most women wear the T-shirt and jeans combo.

G: Yeah, but I thought it was just they're trying to show a different kind of person. They don't usually have professors in Supernatural.

C: They don't, yeah. I don't think that a blue dress showing cleavage is a classic professor look. [both laugh]

G: Okay, yeah, I completely missed the sex part. I just thought she was saying it took her two decades.

C: Yeah. She was like, "It's me. Oh my god. I slept with Bobby. Oh my god, I slept with this guy as part of my job. [G: That is true.] Having sex with men is a part of my profession as me, Dr. Visyak."

G: That is true. Yeah. [laughs] [C: Okay.] 'Cause I was trying to figure out why I am [laughing] so attracted to her. [C laughing] I actually looked up the actor-

C: I mean, I think she's also closer to your type [G laughs] in terms of- as a person that she looks like. But I also think they framing her in a certain way very deliberately and obviously.

G: I actually was like, "Maybe she's from somewhere. That's why I'm recognizing her. That's why I'm so into her." I look it up, she's from nowhere that I know. [laughs] So like, who knows?

C: Yeah. I mean, she's not a very good actress, unless I mean, if she was told to just be a porn professor, then I guess she's doing a good job.

G: No no no. Because the way they- I don't want to spoil things. [C: What?] But the way they show her, they show her with like a lot of like, "Pay attention. Pay attention," you know what I mean? And so I thought it was one of those things where they have somebody from a previous TV show that was a hit [C: Oh, yeah.] with the demographic of Supernatural show up, and, you know, do a cameo. [C: Mm-hm.] Like, they've done that [C: Yeah.] several times. So I was like, "Maybe this is one of those." And then I looked it up, and it literally wasn't, I don't think. [C laughs] [C: No.] So she's just someone who's there, [C: Yeah.] and apparently, I have been tricked by Supernatural. [both laugh] I am their target.

C: [laughing] So thoroughly that you weren't even aware that you were being tricked.

G: To be fair, I was like, "It is a little bit weird that I'm this affected [both laugh] by somebody in Supernatural, and there must be something up in it."

C: I mean, you're into older women. You probably just chalked it up to that.

G: This is true.

C: Dean comes in, and she's like, "Bobby Singer. Tell him something for me the next time you see him. Actually, just kick him in the nuts. That's more poetic." And she says that they used to fuck, basically, but that's his story to tell. And Dean says that there are dragons, and she's like, "Oh my god, don't joke about that. They've been gone for 700 years, and they're scary!" And the only way you can kill one is by using a blade. And when she says "blade," Dean looks down at his crotch. [laughs]

G: Eugh! Is that true?

C: Yes. Because he's got a boner [G laughs] from his hot porn professor fantasy. And then he asks, "What kind of blade?"

G: Is that all true?

C: Yes! [laughs] Go rewatch that scene!

G: [laughing] Why is this completely gone from my memory? [both laughing]

C: I don't know! Okay, I'll rewatch it to make sure I'm not misrepresenting.

G: That's crazy. I don't think I ever saw Dean a single time this week. [laughs]

C: Yeah, no, he does. Anyway, so-

G: No!

C: The time stamp is at 23:35 if you want to see it. If it seems like I'm misrepresenting it, you can check there.

You need a blade that's forged with dragon's blood, so that's gonna be hard to make now. [G: Yeah.] And she says there's only five or six around in the world, and Dean goes, "You know a lot about this stuff."

G: Which is such a weird thing to say!

C: Yeah, like, she's a professor of medieval studies that Bobby directed you towards because of her expertise regarding dragons. And instead of saying, "This is because I am a professor, and I went to school for six years for this, and then taught it for a long time," she goes, "Well, of course I do, because I have one." Dumb as fuck. So she takes him down to her basement and says that finding it took two decades, countless hours, and some really bad sex with an Eastern European ambassador. And it's there, and it's a sword that she has embedded in a boulder. It's the Sword of Brunswick, and Dean asks how to get it out, and she says that you need "a brave knight who's willing to step up and kill the beast." And Dean's like, "Yeah! I'm gonna impress this hot woman!" so-

G: I don't think he's trying to impress the hot woman! [laughs] I think he's just trying to be like- I-

C: He makes a face.

G: Is that the whole bit of this episode?

C: Yeah. [both laugh]

G: [laughing] That's kinda crazy.

C: Okay, if somebody messages us, and is like, "I watched it, and I didn't see it at all, and Crystal's crazy," I will accept that.

G: I mean, there's gotta be a middle point between us.

C: Well, we'll see. We'll see.

G: Yeah. Or maybe there isn't.

C: Or maybe there isn't. And he goes over to it, and they start playing this epic heroic music for comedic effect.

G: Yeah, and the lighting changes a bit.

C: Yeah. And he pulls and pulls, it doesn't work, and he straight up falls off the boulder.

G: And they do another one. I just said that Jensen Ackles is good at comedy acting. It's not funnay.

C: It's not. Yeah, he fails again. And he's like, "Well, I got another idea, but you're not gonna like it." And the another idea is dynamite. Yeah. [G: Love that.] I don't think she even moves the other artifacts out of her special artifact room.

G: No, really. There's so many paintings there.

C: Yeah. He sets up a bunch of explosives around the boulder. She is not happy about it. And Dean's like you have to trust me because I learned how to blow things up from Bobby!And yeah, so he does it, and they blow up the boulder and Dean triumphantly pulls the sword out, but a part of it has broken off because of the explosion, and she is not happy about this, but we never see her again, so.

G: We go to Sam. He is pinning things on the wall. He's like really, really investigating the hell out of this. He also has a whole situation with a map. It's really fun. [C: Yeah.] We get to see the map more later. I am thoroughly impressed that they have access to this! They have access to the sewage map of the city? [C: I guess.] Where?

C: Um, hall of public records, maybe?

G: That's pretty cool. As he's figuring stuff out, he goes to call Bobby, but Bobby, first and foremost, asks, "Where is Dean?" And Sam's like, "No, I'm not with him, whatever. I'm trying to figure stuff out." Basically, they establish that maybe it's not the cave. Maybe it's something akin to a cave like a subway line, but there's no subway lines. Maybe it's the sewers. Sam's like, "Oh my god. Thanks, Bobby." And then he goes, "Hey, Bobby, are you okay? Because something's wrong. You have been acting so weird and off-putting. What's that about?" And Bobby is like, "No, it has nothing to do with you, you know. It's been a year and a half, so whatever." And he hangs up on Sam. Sam's not done, and he hangs up. And Sam, now a little bit distressed that this is all happening, goes and sits down, and he goes- He closes his eyes and he goes, "Castiel? I'm back! So if you've got a minute," and then, he opens his eyes. Cas is not there. So he turns around to check if Cas is maybe behind him, and the camera follows him so that part of the what's in front of him is obscured. And then, when he turns back around to the front, the camera follows him, and we see that it's Cas. [C: Ah!] And he's there, and he's looking at Sam so- like he's so relieved to see Sam there. [C: Mm-hm.] He just goes, "It's so good to see you alive." And Sam goes, "Yeah, you, too." And at this point, he's standing up. Sam's standing up. [C: Yeah.] And Cas, very enthusiastically, and also very awkwardly, because he is Castiel, waddles over to Sam [C laughs] with his arms out! Have we even seen Cas hug anyone?

C: No.

G: It's so important. [C: It is.] It's so important.

C: It's so very important.

G: He waddles to Sam, arms out, and then Sam literally just sits down. [C laughs] Literally, he was like, "Let's sit down." And I appreciate that Sam doesn't just breeze past this. [C: Yeah.] They verbally acknowledge it. Sam goes like, "I would hug you. It's just- eugh." [both laugh] And Cas goes, "Yeah, it'll be weird and off-putting." [C: Aww!] They're so important.

C: They're so, so, so important.

G: Yeah. What is the first hug that Cas has? Is it literally Purgatory?

C: I think so.

G: Crazy.

C: Crazy.

G: What is the first Sastiel hug? Season 9?

C: Isn't Purgatory a Destiel hug?

G: No, yeah. But when's the first Sastiel hug? Season 9?

C: Oh, Sastiel hug. Oh my god. I should know this. I don't know.

G: I think it is the one when Cas stays behind to care for Sam after the whole Gadreel possession thing. [C: Mm.] And then they hug, and Sam was like, "Wow, love you!" And then he taps Cas's face a couple of times.

C: Aww!

G: Do you remember this? They're in front of a bowl.

C: Yeah. The "Hugs" SuperWiki says that- Well, I guess honey!Cas hugs both of them [G: Oh, yeah.] together, [both] but that doesn't really count.

G: He goes, "I love you guys."

C: The first Sam and Cas one is in 9.11, "First Born," so you're correct. He does pat him on the side of the face.

G: So imports, yeah.

C: Aw! So imports.

G: Thus establishing what I said that Season 9 is when they become family, but only after the everything.

Sam starts vaguely talking about things. He goes, "You know, crazy year. I called Bobby. He told me everything." And Cas is like, "Yeah, I know. I'm surprised that you survived! I was begging Deana not to do it."

C: [laughs] So fucking funny for Sam to hear at this moment. [both laughing] Cas said, "I hate your ass, and I wanted you to be in Hell forever."

G: Sam's like, "No, yeah, no, no, I get it. I understand. I get it." [C laughs] And Cas goes, "You know, it's a miracle it didn't kill you." And Sam's like, "Yeah, no, it is a miracle." [both laugh] And Cas says, "How does it feel?" And Sam's like, "What?" And Cas goes, "Well, to have your soul back, of course." And we linger on Sam's face, and we do the zoom-in on him, and it is a very strikingly good-acted scene. You see tears start welling up on Sam's eyes. Oh! Love him! [C: Love him.] And he's like, "Oh, yeah, yeah, because I was walking around with no soul, right, yeah." And he asks, "I'm just fuzzy on the details. Can you tell me things? Can you walk me through it?"

C: Yeah. And we don't see any of it!

G: Do you Cas never suspects? He's never like, "Mm, I don't think he knows, actually." [C laughs]

C: I don't know. Cas is distracted. There's a lot going on in his life.

G: [laughs] Literally.

C: Well, Sam says, "Bobby told me everything," which implies that Sam himself doesn't remember. So Cas can just be like, "Oh, Bobby might have like [both] skipped over a few of the details," etc.

C: Sam and Dean are both in the motel room now. Dean's returned with the sword, and, you know, Sam's deliberately trying to be chill and not mention anything about what he just learned. And Sam points Dean towards the sewers. They're gonna use the sword. And yeah, there's a moment where Sam seems like he wants to say something to Dean, but then he doesn't. Inside the sewers, they're about to give up, and then Sam sees a big old pile of gold. [G: Love it.] So they're going in the right direction. Then they notice that there's this altar with a book on it. [G: Yeah.] They hear Penny call out from a few feet away, so they go over to get her and everybody else, but before they do that, Dean grabs a handful of the gold and stuffs it in his pocket. The dragon returns, and there's a fight scene.

G: I love the fight scene.

C: What is the dragon's voice? He has a certain voice, but I don't know what it is.

G: What you mean is he has an accent, and I don't know what the accent is.

C: Yeah, yeah.

G: Apparently, you shouldn't say "voice" for accent. [laughs] [C: Oh, okay.] Just like me when I asked- but this is different. I once asked a British friend if she was putting on a voice. But that's different. That's like, really rude. [both laugh]

C: Yeah, perhaps so. Yeah, the dragon has an accent. I don't know the origin.

G: I also don't know.

C: I hated this fight scene.

G: I think what they're trying to go for is 'cause he's really fucking old. They kind of established that. I don't know. Maybe they're trying to go for an old accent.

C: An Old English accent? Maybe.

G: It could also literally just be something that we don't know, and I'm so sorry for calling these people ancient. [C laughs]

C: Yeah, I mean, Supernatural just doesn't really do accents very often. So I feel like [G: When they do-] it is deliberate in some way. And I feel like if it was supposed to be from an existing nation, they would have mentioned it as part of the lore. So yeah, I don't know. Might not be true.

So okay, the fight scene, you know, Dean slashes with the sword a bit, and then the dragon kicks it out of his hand, and it falls underneath into the grates. And I was like, "Okay, so like one of the girls down there can reach it and assist in the fight," but that is not true.

G: No, no, no, it's a different grate! It's a different-

C: No, I know. I know it's a different grate. But I think that if it is to fall, that's the point. Because this entire fight scene, right? Sam and Dean are just grunting masculinely. But to really keep the tension up, there's an entire chorus of virgin girls underneath, going, "Ah! Ah!" the entire fucking time. [both laugh] [G: No, literally.] And I hate it! It's so annoying! First, to not have them be involved in any way besides being like a crowd of victims down there with their like female vulnerability, [G laughs] and then to use them for this sound effect the entire time, I just feel like, is especially irritating.

G: I don't think we really got into the whole virgins thing. [C: Yeah.] Let's get into it now. It is severely off-putting. [C: Mm-hm.] Because these are all generally young girls. [C: Yeah.] Or not young girls. Young women. And I don't know, it's just like- And their entire purpose is to go, "No!" And it's incredibly-

C: "Ow! I'm scared!"

G: Yeah. This end of this episode just involves two men manhandling girls who are screaming. And it is like, what are we doing? [C: Yeah.] And because it's Supernatural, it doesn't feel like they're trying to do something or say something or whatever. It's just like, unless it's a special occasion, the purpose of a woman in a hunt is to be the victim that is screaming, or the victim that is being saved. Yeah. As we have said many, many times, there are things in Supernatural that are egregious specifically because they're in the context of Supernatural, the TV show that is always egregious. So, you know.

C: Yeah, yeah. I feel this is pretty bad on its own as well, not even being in Supernatural.

G: No, that is true. But I did love this fucking falling on the grate scene, because Dean can't reach it, and then Sam does, and he very easily can, because he has longer arms.

C: Hell yeah. There's also a second dragon that shows up?

G: [laughs] It's so funny, because when he shows up I thought the dragon changed faces, and I was like, "Well, at least the dragon can change faces. That's cool." [both laugh] No, it's literally a second dragon.

C: Yeah. And he stabs one of them, and then the other one escapes. And then we immediately cut- but apparently, both of them are alive after this.

G: No!

C: No?

G: That's a different dragon! [laughs]

C: Oh! But there are two at the end, and you're telling me that one of them was the one that escaped, and one of them was a completely different dragon?

G: That is true, yes.

C: Okay, good to know. [laughs] Because at first, when it showed them, I was like, "Oh my god! They're inside Purgatory. Why do they have trucks in Purgatory?" [both laughing] because I thought they were both dead.

G: [laughing] In Purgatory, just me and my truck and my buddy.

C: [laughing] If the Impala can be in Heaven, I don't know why trucks can't be in Purgatory. [both laugh] Maybe he really loves that truck!

G: He literally, literally love that truck. But that's not what happens. The random dragon is just killed, and then this old dragon has a dragon friend who has a different van of girls.

C: Yeah, and we don't know what the other ones are for. I mean, Sam implies earlier that the dragons rape them. But like, why are they in vans, and why are they being transported?

G: They need to be sacrificed for Lilith?

C: Oh, okay. For Lilith? For Eve?

G: Oh, for Eve, yeah.

C: Oh, yeah, I guess we just didn't see that. We only see the one who gets possessed. But yeah, you're right, that is probably the intention.

G: That is so fucked up! Sorry, I completely forgot that this is not Lilith, this is Eve. [C: Yeah.] Isn't the point of Lilith already that like, she ran off to be with the demons, and so Eve also ran off to be with the monsters? What's the situation?

C: I really don't know what Eve's backstory is here, 'cause again, we see Adam and Serafina later.

G: Literally. That's the thing. We see Adam, and he's normo-schnormo.

C: He's normo-schnormo, and he has his hot angel girlfriend who's also normal, but also a stoner.

G: Yeah. It's weird that they were like, "And Adam's gonna be a hipster." [laughs] What's that about?

C: Yeah. And Eve is the mother of all monsters? It's just a strange thing.

G: Yeah, well, I completely forgot. This entire time, I've been thinking, "Oh, here comes Lilith!" [C: No.] Anyway, what I mean is, I'm not forgetting that there is already- What I mean is like, I thought this was Lilith- I don't know. Obviously, I remember Lilith. I don't know what I'm trying to say. I'm just being like, I forgot, but I remember. Don't worry about it. [C: Yeah.]

G: Now we are in the- what the fuck is this place called? I always forget. [C: Scrap-] Salvage yard. [C: Salvage yard.] The salvage yard, where cars go to die. Dean is playing with all of the gold that they have, and they have a lot of it. [C laughs] What is the joke with the "ask me what time it it is"?

C: He's just playing with a gold watch.

G: No, no, no, I know, but what is the punchline to that, if Sam goes, "What time is it?" What would he say?

C: Oh, what would Dean's joke be [laughs] if Sam actually- [G: Yeah.] I don't know. "It's time for me to have a bunch of gold. Yay, I have a bunch of gold." I'm sure that's what it was.

G: Yeah, maybe he's gonna say, "It's golden time!" [C: Sure.] Something super fucking corny because he is not funny.

C: It's not. It's 15.03. Or is it 15.03? No, I think it's a different 15.

G: I think it's 15.03. No, it's not. [C: It is?] That's "The Rapture." Or "The Rupture." I think "Golden Time" is 15.06.

C: Okay, a multiple of three.

G: Yeah. It's the one where Cas is in a cabin solving murders. [C: Love it.] And Dean calls him and is like, "Oh, I hate you!" I forgot what their call was.

C: It's very tense, and Cas seemingly wipes away a tear at the end.

G: Oh! It's the one where Cas is like, "You call my supervisor." And Dean, as the supervisor, was like, "Oh, let me talk to my agent." And he's like, "Wow! And you're not even gonna come back? What's wrong with you or something?" I don't know. They were having some marital difficulties.

C: God, I love it.

G: Or do you?

C: I think I do. [laughs]

G: Do you think you're back to being a Destiel shipper, or do you think you would ever be?

C: Well, okay, again, whether or not I like it [G laughs] doesn't change the fact that it's real. [laughs]

G: Yeah. But would you like it ever again, do you think?

G: I think the way I would like it is in the "I love drama" way, and not in the-

G: "They're in wuv" way?

C: - really invested in this relationship way, you know?

G: I think that is also generally my disposition, but I can also be completely lying to myself.

C: There was a time, I think, [laughs] when you really did wuv it.

G: No, no, no, definitely. And I think there could be a time in the future.

C: Oh, you're saying now?

G: Yeah, now, I'm not sure if I'm truly invested in that way, or I'm just a "It's something that is happening for real!" that is fun to talk about. And it is both of those things, maybe. I don't know. [C: Indeed.] Well, we don't get to hear Dean's super corny joke, because Sam is like- No, he makes a joke about how Dean should just roll in the gold and Dean's like, "Oh, come on!" But then Sam finally does cut to the chase and goes, "Dean, I am so sorry. I can't even begin to say how sorry I am." And Dean starts tensing up, and he's like, "For what?" And Dean goes, "You know what." And Dean asks, "Did Bobby-" And Sam goes, "No, it was Cas!" And Dean whispers to himself, "Oh, Cas! That frickin' child!"

C: Not nice. [laughs] Not nice or true.

G: Yeah, he pulls this- [C: He does this-] He will tell Cas later, "You're a fucking child."

C: What does he even mean here? That Cas is naive?

G: Yes. 'Cause the argument he does later about this is "Just because you could have something doesn't mean you should!" [C: Okay.] when he was trying to get every power ever.

C: Yeah, I don't really understand what is childish about Cas telling Sam about the soulless months, though.

G: I think just not having the awareness to think that Sam- that Cas- whatever whatever. I do think there is a chance for Dean to think that Cas did it on purpose, like he wasn't tricked into doing it. 'Cause their last conversation sure implies that Cas is mad at Dean-

C: That's true. So he did it out of spite.

G: - and he could have spitefully done it. So maybe it's not naivety. It's like [C: Pettiness?], "What a petty fucking guy." Yeah. Oh my god! I forgot that this season is also "You're just a baby in a trenchie." [both laughing] He doesn't say "trenchie," but he should have.

C: Yeah, and he has a headyachey on his poddycasty.

G: Literally. Yeah, anyway, Dean says, "You weren't supposed to know."

C: Well, Sam says, "You should have told me, Dean."

G: Dean says, "You're not supposed to know." And Sam argues that well, he should have, because he did that to Bobby and everything. He should know. Dean argues that "You can't scratch the wall because it might kill you for real." And Sam says, "Okay, but I want to set things right."

C: "I have to set things right."

G: Oh, yeah. And Dean says, "It wasn't you." And Sam says what he feels like is that he woke up and the whole city is burnt down, "And you can say it wasn't me, but I'm the one with the Zippo in my pocket, you know?" which is something that happens when Meg possessed him. [C: Mm.] That is like how the- I don't know. I do think, why does Sam not have the memory like?

C: Of when he was soulless?

G: Yeah, how does that follow with the logic that we have been presented of what souls are and what bodies are and what memories are?

C: Right. Soulless Sam had his memories and was able to retain new memories-

G: And so like, what is that about? And I feel like, is it because of the wall? [C: Maybe.] Like, yeah. It probably is because of the wall. And he says, "I appreciate you trying to protect me, but I got to fix what I got to fix. I need to know what I did." And something about this just really struck me because this was the moment where I was like, "Okay!" I missed Sam, and now he's back. Because this is so quintessentially him in a way that I can't even- I don't know how to word it. There was a scene that we really loved, both of us, where, when he was soulless, Sam said that he remembers what he felt like before, and it was more difficult, yes, but there is something worth going back to there. And here, we see that, and we see what he must think was worth going back to. And I was like, "Aw, Sam." [C: Yeah.] I mean, it's difficult, and obviously, this is a difficult one, and it's guilt, and it's regret, and it's fear of what that means, what it means to be the person who did that, even if it wasn't technically, but it also technically is, so what is that about? and all that. But it is also the ability to make right, the desire to make things correct and to fix what is broken. And like, isn't that what Sam is about? [C: Yeah.] I love him! And I missed him so much.

C: I love him. Yeah. And his last memory being "Swan Song," [G: Yeah.] I think, also adds to this because he spent a lot of Season 5 being like, "I opened up the Cage. I let Lucifer out. That was me, and I need to make things right," and him sacrificing himself in "Swan Song" was that already. And then he wakes up. It feels like he hasn't- It feels like he's done his penance, maybe, and he's like, chill for a bit. And then he realizes this, and I feel like it's very easy for him to go back to what he was thinking in Season 5 because that just happened for him.

G: Yeah. Sam!

C: Yeah. Yeah. I do wuv him, and he is looking up with his big, shiny eyes and saying that he needs to enact justice.

G: His hair looks different, his face looks different. Maybe Jared Padalecki is a good actor. [laughs]

C: Yeah, maybe he is. [laughs]

G: Yeah. Oh my god! But anyway, Dean is saying that it's dangerous, it's dangerous. Sam says, "You would do it if you were me." But then they get cut off, and Bobby calls them inside to talk about something.

C: We don't even get a Bobby-Sam apology scene.

G: No, literally, I was waiting for it.

C: Yeah, I was waiting for it.

G: But who give a fuck? Sorry. [laughs]

C: I would rather that than the goofy-ass sword-pulling stuff, [G laughs] if you had to use time in certain ways.

G: I mean, allegedly, you do have to use time. [C: Yeah.]

C: So in Bobby's living room- So they took that book at the altar from earlier, and that's what Bobby's been analyzing. And it's a really obscure Latinate and made out of human skin. And it describes this place that is basically Purgatory. And as he talks about it, it's like a voiceover because we're also seeing- I think that's why I thought it was Purgatory. Because I see the dragons rolling up in a truck while Bobby's talking about a place called Purgatory. One might assume that the place they are is Purgatory. [laughs]

G: Okay, first of all, what I want to point out here is, does Bobby know about the whole [both] Crowley situation?

C: I'd assume they'd filled him in.

G: But the way he says, "You may have heard of it. Purgatory." [laughs] [C: No, that's true.] I was like, "Wait, what the fuck is that?" Is he being tongue-in-cheek about it? Or is he straight up like "You may have heard about it."

C: I think he's being tongue-in-cheek about it.

G: I fully was like, "You know, Purgatory." I really was like, "Does he know?" I don't know. I don't know if he did.

C: Yeah. So the book gives instructions on how to open up the door to Purgatory in order to let something out into Earth. And we see two dragons performing a ritual. One of them has a truckload of virgins, and they'd take one out, and you'll never guess what she's wearing.

G: White nightgown, baby!

C: Classic.

G: Literally classic.

C: Yeah. And yeah, they take her out and bring her to the side of this cliff while she's screaming and kicking and crying about it, and they recite something, I think, in Latin, or maybe an obscure Latinate, and then they ungag her and then throw her below where there's a big pit of fire. And then Bobby says the thing that they're trying to let out is called [both] Mother. Mother of all. And the girl rises out of the pit, and she's different now. She's possessed by something. Her eyes are glowing, her legs are burning, etc, and the dragons welcome her, and she says, "You kept me waiting. We have so much to do. Let's get started." [G: Yeah.] So that's the episode, yeah. I know later, Eve takes on Mary's form, which I think is fun, but right now, it's young girl- or young woman in a nightgown, which I guess is also pretty Mary-esque. [G: Yeah.] Good for her. Episode.

G: End of ep. What did you think about it? Loved it. We are so back.

C: I liked parts of it. I disliked other parts of it. I think that this is an episode that I think- The situation that they are in is one where they could have made it an episode of all time, sort of "When the Levee Breaks" level of emotional resonance thing, and they didn't, so I think I'm a little disappointed in that. But it's not a terrible episode.

G: Yeah. Best Line/Worst Line.

C: I liked Sam's conversation with Dean at the end. I think I liked the "Alright, but I have to set things right, or what I can, anyway," because that's the beginning of the whole Sam of it all.

G: Yeah. I think I really like when Sam is eating that fucking sandwich, and then he's like, "Did Cas bring me back?" And Dean's like, "No," and then he straightens up his back, and then he goes, "Dean." [both laugh] I love that line. I just thought it was so amusing and so importies. Yeah. [C: Yeah.] What's your worst life? My worst line is the sex with the Eastern European blah blah blah, which I completely missed and completely- I just completely missed. Yeah, I just completely missed it. But now I know about it, and I hate it.

C: Yeah, yeah. My worst line is the Batman rape joke, [G: That's true!] both Sam saying it and Dean saying, "You know, he's got a lot of rage," which I think we didn't really talk about. What a fucked up thing to say! [both laugh] [G: Yeah.] Spread those sheets?

G: Hell yeah, let's see. BABPod. Okay, Writer Sins. I don't think we've ever called it Writer Sins, like ever.

C: Oh, yeah, that's the name of the tab, but- Misogyny, for sure.

G: It is a lot, and it is fundamental to the episode. I would even give it a 5.

C: Yeah, let's do it.

G: Let's not get stingy with- [both laugh] [C: Yeah!] Racism? I don't think so.

C: I don't think so. Sometimes we forget, but I don't remember, so nothing we can do about it.

G: Homophobia?

C: I don't think so.

G: I also don't think so.

C: Why didn't Sam hug Cas, though, you know? Let's really think about it. [laughs] Actually, though, why didn't he?

G: I don't know. I think he just doesn't like Cas that much! [both laugh] After my whole deal about how he's so fond of his buddy Cas. I think he just doesn't like Cas that much.

C: He hugs Dean and Bobby immediately, really hard, and he's very happy to hear that Cas is back.

G: No, because Cas is not yet family, as I've said.

C: I guess it's just Cas just isn't a very affectionate person in the past, so it's strange to Sam.

G: Yeah, it's weird to have this as your first hug. A moment where you're trying to trick him into telling you things.

C: Well, this was before Sam knew. He just called Cas down because he was back, and he wanted to see him.

G: Yeah. But he was- The point is to try to get Cas to say things to him.

C: Because the Bobby thing was weird? [G: Yeah.] Yeah, no, you're right. I mostly missed that. I was just like, "Well, Sam has some time, and he wants to talk to his friend!" [both laugh]

G: His buddy, even. [C: Yeah.] IMDb guesses. I go first. I think this is definitely higher than “Appointment in Samarra,” but I don't know how high. I will go 9.2.

C: That is so interesting because I think it's definitely lower.

G: I'm afraid you're right. But okay, go on.

C: Wait. You looked already?

G: No. I'm just afraid.

C: Oh, okay. This is such a wide spread for us to be doing, but I say 8.5.

G: Hmm! 8.5? [C: Yeah.] Okay, let's check. Huh!

C: What? Were you right?

G: No, Crystal, it's an 8.2! I'm fully one point away!

C: Ha! Hahahahaha! Hahahaha, hahahahaha, hahaha, hahaha. You're still winning, though, this season. You're still winning somehow. I don't know how, but you are still winning.

G: We have really bridged some of the gap.

C: Okay, what was it before? [G: Let's see.] Okay, if I delete all of these- Yeah, yeah, no, we've bridged the gap quite a bit. Hahaha, hahaha, haha. If you care. [both laugh]

G: This one is saying, "The episode is not bad. The real standout is Jared Padalecki." It's true. Yeah.

C: Yeah, it is true, unfortunately.

G: "The brotherly blonde- [laughs] the brotherly bond in its glory-"

C: The brotherly blonde, AKA Dean Winchester.

G: Literally. "Our Sam is back with all the puppy eyes." So true. This one says, "Jensen Ackles is great with the comedic beat bits. Awkward reunion between Cas and soulled Sam. Both Jared and Misha were great on that scene." Who give a shit about Misha Collins? I literally don't consider Misha Collins as part of that episode. Isn't that so wild?

C: Cas is.

G: No, no, no! But isn't that so wild? I was like, "Oh, they gave that scene to Jensen because Jensen's a good comedic actor." "Oh, Jared was really good this episode." But literally, Misha Collins is nowhere to be seen. [C: True.] This one says [both] the dragons are bad. Obviously. I mean, people incessantly make fun of the dragons. I should have known it was lesser.

C: Yeah. "Cute Dean moment, and I liked the blonde women." [both laugh]

G: This one goes, "I don't like the Mother of All theme, especially the girl at the end. She seemed too cute and young to be the big bad of the show."

C: I did feel that a little bit. She just wasn't- she had a little bit of vocal fry on her last line, too, and I was like, "That isn't the voice that I would expect for you."

G: I'm kinda obsessed with the American accents this episode. "[American accent] Man! There's so much weather!" or whatever she says. [both laugh] I'm sorry. That was a really awful rendition of an American accent.

C: This person says, "I like the idea that they have to take virgins." [both] Why? [both laughing] Why? For what reason?

G: What is the definition of that?

C: I don't know!

G: Yeah, this one. "Useless villain, terrible monster." Okay, well, we get it. That's why it got an 8.2.

C: Uh-huh, uh-huh. Interesting stuff. My life is so much better now. You have no idea.

G: I can't believe you have now an opportunity to beat me for real!

C: I mean, let's not get hasty here. But yeah. [both laugh]

G: Are you gonna start rapping about Patrick Swayze?

C: [laughs] No, no. That doesn't rhyme with- What's something that rhymes with "hasty" that's a name? I can't think of anything.

G: I don't know. I also don't know. The next episode title is so corny. Okay, well, that's it-

C: "Like a Virgin" isn't? [G laughs]

G: Okay, that's all for this week's episode of Busty Asian Beauties. Next week, we will be discussing Season 6, Episode 13: "Unforgiven." [C snorts] Leave us a rating or a review wherever you get your podcasts. C: You're right. That is so corny. Follow us on social media! We are on Tumblr at bustyasianbeautiespod.tumblr.com. Our official tag is #BABPod, B-A-B-POD. Thanks to everyone who's donated to our Ko-Fi at ko-fi.com/bustyasianbeautiespod, which is where our outtakes live, and check out our merch at babpod.redbubble.com. G: You can email us any feedback, comments, or inquiries at [email protected]. See you guys next time! [both] Bye! [guitar music]

#transcript

0 notes

bustyasianbeautiespod · 2 months ago

Text

Episode 117: Brystal CABPod

Today, Crystal & Grey discuss Supernatural 6.13 - Unforgiven. We talk about: If Crystal would kill their grandchild who is named Crys with a y, Sam Winchester vowing off blonde women, and the general concept of cuckoldry,

Episode 117 Outtakes: What's up with the Ten Commandments?

Redbubble

Transcript

#episode #babpod #spn #supernatural #season 6 #supernatural podcast

2 notes · View notes

bustyasianbeautiespod · 2 months ago

Note

Grey, was the other word for dragon you were looking for "wyvern"? As far as I know, it's not used do differentiate between Eastern and Western dragons, but it's the only other dragon word I know

I actually still have no idea what word it is I have been thinking of and until now it bothers me. I think perhaps I just had this idea that a chinese dragon and a western dragon look so different and so therefore must have different things they are called. like, one of them looks like a crocodile, the other looks like a snake!!! they should be called different things! but alas, this is not the english language in the world we live in.

- grey <33

#thanks for trying to help me figure it out unfortunately i think im just genuinely making stuff up in my head #asks #but they SHOULD be different dont they.

2 notes · View notes

bustyasianbeautiespod · 2 months ago

Text

Episode 115 Transcript: How Dare You Sing a Kansas Song To Me Incredibly Terribly and Maybe Out of Tune

[intro guitar music]

G: Hello, it's Grey.

C: Hello, it's Crystal.

G: And this is Busty Asian Beauties, a Supernatural commentary podcast where I, someone who has seen this show many times...

C: And I, someone who only knows the show through social media, discuss every single episode of Supernatural from start to finish. Also, we are both Asian.

G: Both Asian! For today's episode, we will be discussing Season 6, Episode 11: "Appointment in Samarra," written by Sera Gamble and Robert Singer, directed by Mike Rohl.

C: Has Robert Singer written before?

G: I don't think so. I feel like I would have noticed if that was the case.

C: Oh, no, apparently he wrote "Sin City" as well, with Jeremy Carver.

G: Boo! What are his other writing credits for Supernatural?

C: 3.04 “Sin City,” 6.11 “Appointment in Samarra,” 7.16 “Out With the Old,” and 13.15 “A Most Holy Man,” all of them partnered with somebody.

G: [laughs] "A Most Holy Man" is his? That's so- well.

C: It's his and Dabb's. Did Dabb and Loflin break up?

G: Yeah, because Dabb became showrunner, remember?

C: Oh, and Loflin couldn't stand his beloved becoming more successful than him?

G: Yeah, many such cases in romantic relationships. [C: Yeah.] Yeah. I loved this episode. I enjoyed it tremendously.

C: I had a fun time.

G: It has all of the Supernatural classic characteristics: morality story that is so corny, tired, and played out, [C laughs] check. Weird race thing, check. [C laughs] Discussions about Sam's autonomy as a person, got it. [C: Yeah.] Bobby hate? Love Bobby hate. [C: Love it.] Love Bobby hate. So I was enjoying it the whole time.

C: Yeah, this is Sera Gamble's first Season 6 episode after 6.01. I guess showrunning takes a lot time out of your-

G: I mean, this is mid- what do they call it? The mid break? The mid-season hiatus?

C: Ah, I see.

G: So this is the last episode, I'm assuming, before we go back in January, or they go back. They went back in January. So yeah. Happy New Year, Happy 2011 to all of these people.

C: [laughs] So true.

G: What did you know about this episode before going in? I mean, obviously, there are classic ones. But like, aside from that. Wait, what are the classic ones?

C: What do you mean?

G: You know that it was gonna be the one with Death.

C: Yeah, the one where Dean has to take Death's ring and take over for a day, and people think it's cool. I didn't know it was this episode, but of course I saw the post that was like, "You know, Dean shows that he thinks of Bobby as a father by saying it to him, and Sam shows it by trying to kill him for a spell that calls for patricide," [G laughs] and someone reblogs and says, "Sam's always been special in that way."

G: God. That is an altogether hilarious subplot to this episode. [C laughs] Loved it! [C: It's wonderful.] I think, honestly, [laughs] we'll get into it later. But yeah, aside from that, do you know- did you connect the dot that- obviously, the dots connected here. But did you connect the dot that it was Death who was gonna bring Sam back?

C: No, I don't think so.

G: Yeah, I also forgot. [both laugh] So a shock to the both of us. [C: So true.] I suppose it was always gonna be that Death is gonna come back and that there is the very obvious solution of like, they open the gate through, or they open the portal through the rings, and so they may very well open it again through the rings. It make me wonder, because what did Death need all that help for if he can just open it by himself? He didn't have the other rings, did he?

C: True.

G: So yeah.

C: Um, good question. [laughs]

G: Yeah. Maybe it was fated, as he so evidently wants Dean to learn.

C: Yeah, maybe so.

G: We start the episode with Dean Winchester driving up to a Chinese grocery store. [C laughs]

C: Yeah. And he hates it! He thinks it's so disgusting and horrible that the place he has to go is near a Chinese grocery store or above a Chinese grocery store. He hates mixed-use housing, and he is for every zoning law that prevents affordable housing from being built in every city.

G: It's crazy because they make it a point to show that it's a Chinese place, right? [C: Yeah.] [C laughs] It isn't like "it just so happened." They make it a part of showing it. And then they have a scene where Dean looks at the address, and then he looks at the address on the building, and then he goes, "Oh my god! You've got to be kidding me," [C laughs] and I was like, "What for?"

C: What for?

G: What for? What is the kidding part of this, Dean?

C: Yeah. What's funny? What's the joke, Dean?

G: Because the gag is that he's meeting a doctor, and it's in a Chinese grocery store, I think.

C: Or he lives above one, and Dean's like, "It's unsanitary there"? Right? Doesn't he say, "Don't you care about hygiene as a doctor?" [both laugh]

G: I just cannot help but feel that it is because it is a Chinese place. That's why he's saying it. [C: Yeah.] I mean, what other reason would there be?

C: I think he's maybe just against mixed-use housing in general.

G: I think they make it explicitly a point to show that they're butchering live animals- or not- like, fish.

C: Just regular- yeah. [laughs] Are fish really live animals? Yes, they are. Sorry to fish.

G: Also, is it called butchering if it's fish?

C: I don't know. Why not?

G: Why not? They're butchering fish. I've been told-

C: Whacked them with that big wooden thing.

G: I have been told that in American markets, they don't have a live fish.

C: Yeah, no, they just have them frozen. [G: Yeah.] They don't even put them out on ice.

G: Is that true? No, that's wild.

C: Well, sometimes they have them in like- well, they have them skinned and cut and deboned and then put in like, containers the way that you would see an unskinned chicken breast, and like-

G: That's wild! [C: Yeah.] Why not even do the displaying on ice thing?

C: I think they don't like to know that the thing they're eating had eyes and a soul.

G: Ah. Okay, yeah, that makes sense.

C: Yeah. Get over it! [laughs]

G: I mean, I think I've told you this, right? But when I go to school, I pass by a goat butcher shop. [C: Yeah.] So the goats, when it's early morning, the goats are literally hanging by the hooks. I mean the butchered goats. But they're draining the blood or something. I don't actually know how butchering works, [both laugh] but in the morning, they're like, shaking. [C: Yeah.] Anyway, people should know. I think people should know that you're eating an animal. That's kind of important about eating an animal. [laughs] That's kind of vital in the process of eating an animal. But okay, whatever.

C: Yeah. Maybe US meat consumption would go down.

G: I'm shocked that they don't do the- I kind of understand not having the fish tanks. I do also wonder sometimes, what's the point of all this? They're all crammed up in there. What's going on?

C: Yeah, I guess they do go bad less quickly if you kill them there, even if they're in pretty bad living situations before they get killed.

G: Yeah, I suppose so. So he's going and looking at the- I'm not even sure if there's a fish tank in this place. He's just looking at the guy with a knife going, "Yucky!" [C laughs] Well, literally he comes in, and he starts asking the butcher, "Hey, so like I'm looking for-" and this guy just looks at him and goes, "This is a white guy wearing a leather jacket. He's obviously a hunter." [both laugh] So he just leads him to the back, "Just go there" or whatever. And as Dean comes up, we meet this guy who was apparently a friend of John's. He's like, "Oh my god! You've grown up so much. I used to treat your dad. I would put him back together. But of course it was ages ago, when I had my medical license. But now I don't! Let's go!" Yeah. And then this is the bit where Dean asks, "You know, I'm not a germ freak, but like..." And the doctor says, "The rent is cheap here." Anyway, we come in. There's an assistant. She hates Dean's ass. Very important! And we don't know what this is all about, but they talk a little bit about like, "Oh, okay, here's the money. What's the success rate here?" The doctor says, "75%." And he tells the doctor that if something happens to go wrong, to send this to the address. And we see the letter, and it's for Benjamin Braden. [C: Yeah.] What do you think about that?

C: Does Lisa mean nothing to you?

G: I mean- What? What did you ask?

C: Oh, I said, "Does Lisa mean nothing to you?" to Dean.

G: No, why is it to Ben?

C: Yeah, I just feel like if he dies, Lisa should learn first and then figure out the best way to put it to Ben.

G: - How to tell Ben. Yeah, there are actually many choices in this episode that I have that kind of reaction to. If I was talking to Dean in real life, I'd go, "Dean, don't do that." But as someone who's watching the show, I find interesting- like, that's fun, interesting stuff. The fact that he would think that it's more important to tell Ben or have Ben be the contact than Lisa, I think is interesting. Because I remember, he would tell Ben, "You take care of your mom" or something back in the day. "Back in the day" [laughs] like five episodes ago, I don't know. [C: Yeah.] I think that speaks to something about Dean. Because I'm sure the contents of that letter isn't just, "I'm dead. RIP to me." It's like, you know, "Take care of your mom." [laughs] And like, I think if you sent that to Lisa, like, "Take care of Ben," that's so condescending. She's been doing it forever. And so I suppose it must go to Benjamin Braeden.

C: Yeah, I guess so.

G: Also, can I just say- I don't want to make fun of people's names. [C laughs] [C: Okay?] But I do think naming someone Benjamin-

C: Don't do B.B.?

G: - is kind of wild. [C laughs] Is Benjamin a wild name? [laughs]

C: I think it's pretty normal.

G: I feel like you should- Well, to be fair, this was in 2011, so maybe it was fine. I feel like in 2025, if you're like 20 years old, the only reason why you would have the name Benjamin is- You know how how some trans guys would have names that are like, a dead soldier from World War II, whatev? [C laughs] [C: Yeah.] That should be the only reason.

C: Yeah, yeah. [G: Yes.] So true.

G: So true, Gregory House M.D.

C: Shoutout all the trans guys who are probably named Wystan.

G: No, are there any? Let's find them. If you're named Wystan, W-Y-S-T-A-N, and it is- [laughs] If you're named Wystan Hugh, [C laughs] contact us, yeah. From beyond the grave, even, if it's possible.

C: Yeah, if it's possible.

G: The assistant inserts a needle on him, and he's like, "Ouchie!" But then the doctor injects a liquid into the IV, and then he's out! Oh, also, the doctor makes a comment about how, "Oh, you're not sending Sam anything?" and Dean says, "If this doesn't work, he doesn't give a fuck," which is like, kind of real! I mean, it's true, number one. [C: True.] Number two, I think it did give me a- "Oh, I kind of get where Dean is coming from." I don't think I ever really thought about the fact that Dean may be- how Dean may be feeling over the fact that Sam doesn't DGAF about him. [C laughs] 'Cause like, I don't think we ever really focus on it that much, surprisingly. Don't you feel like? We focus a lot on how Sam feels about not feeling anything. We also focused on the actions that result to that. But a lot of the Dean side is like, as you mentioned before, surprisingly accepting. [C: Right.] So I don't think we ever really deep dive into like, "Is Dean hurt or anything about Sam not being-" like, if he died, Sam would be like, "Okay, whatever." [C laughs]

C: Yeah. Yeah. I think I've thought about it. [G: Really?] I mean, we talked about it a bit also in terms of- In "You Can't Handle the Truth," how he loses Lisa and Ben sort of in that phone conversation before- I don't know. When he was getting ready to kill Sam because he thought it wasn't him in "You Can't Handle the Truth," he was feeling that kind of loneliness. And then he lost Lisa and Ben, and Bobby didn't really want to talk to him on the phone that much, either, and then the whole Sam reveal happened. But I guess maybe post-soulless Sam, we haven't returned to that yet, but I guess I just assumed it was about the same feeling.

G: Yeah, I suppose so. But anyway, now he's dead, and we get a similar thing as we have the other times Dean has interacted with Tessa where he walks in and sees his dead body. Very fun. [C: Mm.] And so he goes out of the room, he calls onto Tessa. Tessa appears, and Dean says, "I need to talk to Death." And Tessa says no, but then Death shows up. Hell yeah.

C: They have a conversation in the Chinese grocery store, and Dean is saying, "Oh, I have your ring still, Death. And I'll give it back to you if you do something for me." And Death is like, "I know where it is. You have no leverage, etc. So what do you want?" And Dean says that he wants Death to get Sam's soul out of the Cage, and also, get Adam, by the way, because he to is in this cage.

G: I was so happy to hear this. I was like, "At least they didn't fully forget." [C: Yeah.] Has Adam literally been mentioned in Season 6?

C: Maybe?

G: I truly don't think so.

C: Maybe not, yeah.

G: Yeah, I truly don't think so.

C: Well, thank you, Sera Gamble, for remembering.

G: Yeah. And I love that- you know, it's the same vibe as when towards the "Swan Song," when Dean is like, "Oh, Adam, I'm coming for you next. Hang in!" or whatever, [C laughs] and then never did. And now Dean is like, "No, you have to get them both out!" And literally, the instant Death is like, "No, only one," he doesn't give a shit about Adam.

C: "No, pick one." It's like, "Okay, Sam." Yeah, yeah. And okay, Death says that Sam's soul has been flayed to the raw nerve, and there's no way to just remove the Hell part from it, but he can put the memories of Hell behind a wall. [G laughs] Sometimes I remember how Cas just took on Sam's, what? "Hell madness" or whatever it's called, and then it was fine? [laughs] [G: Literally.] Whatever. Wild.

G: You know, I mean, this wall thing. It's like, well, one, it's stupid, [C laughs] I feel. [C: Mm.] Two, however stupid it is, I do love the way Death talks about it later as like, "There's gonna be an itch there, don't scratch it," which is very fun. That's a very fun- I think maybe they should have kind of went that more abstract route with it, with regards to how it works. [C: Yeah.] "It's just in a room in a corner in Sam's head" is like, it sounds so stupid! [C: Yeah.] But portraying it as like, I don't know, Sam interacting with Sam in some way, it's fun. But also, just the general idea of like, I actually don't remember that much how the Hell trauma starts manifesting, like what happens. Is it just a natural breakdown of the wall? Or does something happen? [pause] Cas takes it away. [laughs]

C: Cas takes it away, yeah, during his evil mode period.

G: Literally. But Sam was still going for a long time.

C: Yeah, it just seems like he was hallucinating Lucifer a lot, which, it was bad for him, but it was livable. They keep talking about it like he'll just instantly die

G: Also, isn't it wild that Sam was still kind of going for a while after that wall breaks down, but Cas takes it, and he's just immediately like, the way they portray him during that era in Season 7. [C: Yeah.] I don't know. This wall thing? I don't know.

C: [laughs] Mm, I don't know either. [G: Well, yeah.] Yeah. So Cas has all the memories of Sam being tortured in Hell after he takes away the Hell madness?

G: I don't know. I think there's also some people who argue about how the Hell trauma shouldn't even- or the Hell trauma that Cas has, is it as if the trauma is happening to him? [C: Right.] Or is it just like having Sam's memories of it, in which case, if you have the memories of something bad happening, I mean, that must suck. But if it's not happening to you in the memories, what's the situation? How much more or less sucky is it? I don't know. This whole thing again, we don't know. [C: I don't know.] Don't know about the wall.

C: Dunno. This wall is going to hold back the Hell memories, but it's not going to be permanent, and when it collapses, he's done, apparently. And for Death to do this, in return, he wants Dean to win a wager, which is that he has to be Death for a day. He has to put on Death's ring, which will give him Death's powers. He has to do everything that Death does for a day, and if he doesn't do a job or takes the ring off within the 24 hours, then he loses. This whole time, Dr. Roberts has been trying to bring Dean back because he's been gone way longer than the three minutes he gave. And Dean asks, "Why are you doing this?" And Death goes, "Because..." and then Dean wakes up, so we never learn!

G: How does death work? Because like-

C: No, yeah, exactly. He didn't have the ring this whole time. I assume people were still dying, so his powers are innate, so why does he need the ring?

G: No no no. Dean dies. Dean loses his heartbeat. [C: Mm-hm.] But like, does Death touch him?

C: I don't think so. Not yet?

G: Well, I suppose- I don't know.

C: Maybe Death touches him but Tessa doesn't reap him.

G: No, because- no, yeah. The other ones have like this whole thing where it's like, they're alive and suffering until you touch them. So like, I don't know what Dean's situation is. I suppose when he got touched, Death must have been invisible or something. That could also happen.

G: But anyway, Dean's now back in his body, and he is considering. And they're in Bobby's house. They're talking about it. When's the last time we saw Bobby?

C: Was it after "Weekend at Bobby's," or was it "Weekend at Bobby's"?

G: Was it literally "Weekend at Bobby's"?

C: Well, let me check the episode list. Oh, wait! No, it had to be after "Weekend at Bobby's" because- Did we see his reaction to knowing Sam was soul- Oh, well, we saw him in "You Can't Handle the Truth" on the phone.

G: Oh, yeah, you're right.

C: And then was he there for the aftermath of that?

G: Did they call Bobby a singular time about Sam being soulless?

C: It just feels like this must have happened.

G: I don't think so. I think they went to Samuel. I think for a moment, they were replacing Bobby with Samuel.

C: Yeah, yeah, no. The last time we saw him was in "You Can't Handle the Truth."

G: Wow! Sidelined, Bobby.

C: Yeah. Didn't Dean promise that the thing he would do after he got out of "Caged Heat" was hunt down Samuel and kill him? [laughs] Really slacking on that one.

G: Yeah. But Sam ran away and then came back, [laughs] so like, they have other priorities. It is also hilarious to me that last episode ended with Sam power-walking away, and now he's just fully here. Like, hell yeah.

C: No, yeah, actually, [both laughing] where did he go?

G: He just took the scenic route to the car door, [C: So true.] so that's why he was walking away.

C: So true. At Bobby's. Sam is adamant that he does not want Dean to try this because if he gets his soul back, he will die, and this wall thing does not seem very trustworthy. And Sam says, "Oh, you're playing pretty fast and loose with my life here, don't you think?" And Dean says, "I'm trying to save your life." And Sam says, "Exactly, Dean. It's my life, it's my soul, and it's not your head that's going to explode when you fuck up," which I guess starts the whole thing this episode where it's like- I don't know. Just Sam's autonomy debates. Classic Supernatural move. [G: Yeah.] It is his life and his soul, but if he's gonna be killing people, [laughs] the people who he's trying to kill should have some say in it?

G: Yeah, I mean, honestly, when he started killing Bobby, I was like, "Well. [both laughing] Well." Okay, I think the question that they're trying to pose here is, I would say, the same question that they were trying to pose with the demon blood addiction arc, which is that Sam is quote-unquote "not in his right mind." [C: Right.] I think that is more effective here than it was in the demon blood arc. [C: Right.] I think a part of it is that later on, he asks Bobby, "Are you gonna lock me up?" And Bobby says, "Not unless I have a reason to." And then they only lock him up when he does have a reason to. So it doesn't feel as egregious, or as- The thing is, I feel like in both situations, Supernatural the TV show wants us to react similar ways, like be on the same side of Bobby and Dean on both accounts. But like, I wasn't in the demon blood, and here I am a little bit more on Dean and Bobby's side, so I don't know. I think maybe Sera Gamble likes this- Didn't she write-

C: "When the Levee Breaks"? Yeah.

G: Yeah, so like, I think she likes this theme and wants to do things with it. I don't know. I feel a little bit like, "Okay." [laughs] I mean, again, they do deliver more complexity to it this episode. It's just that- I don't know. I suppose, okay, I'll go back to what I was trying to say. The question here is that if you're sick in some way or other, who is the person who is your- What do you call that? Power of attorney, basically.

C: Yeah, yeah. I was trying to figure what that was called before the episode started.

G: Who is your power of attorney? And here, it argues that it's Dean-

C: I don't think it should be.

G: - and that this is a situation where power of attorney is required. When Sam is like, "No, don't put my soul back in," I was like, "Yeah, don't!"

C: [laughs] Yeah, literally don't. I don't think Dean should have power of attorney. I mean, for various reasons, but also on top of those reasons, he doesn't want Sam's soul back for reasons related to Sam. He just wants his brother to wuv him again.

G: I was supposed to point this out later, but I think there's an excellent line in the later scenes that really points it out. Actually, I will just point it out later. But like, yeah. Dean doesn't care about Sam in this situation, which Sam points out. [C: Yes.] He cares about himself and his idea of the little brother that he has. And like, I think, one, that's the issue. Two, I wish Sam explained to Bobby, "I'm killing you because I need to commit patricide so that [C laughs] my soul can't come back in" because then, it wouldn't be like, "Oh, I just tried to kill you."

C: "I just want to kill you because I hated your vibes."

G: If Dean was like, "Okay, no, we're not gonna attempt to put your soul back in, I promise," he'd be like, "Okay, I don't need to kill Bobby."

C: No, for real.

G: So I wish they just told him, so you know.

C: Yeah, yeah. I was saying, "It's not good that he's trying to kill people," but he is only trying to kill people once it's his own survival on the line. [G: Yeah.] He is a hundred percent certain that what Dean is doing right now is going to kill him, so he's doing this so that he doesn't die. I feel like that's reasonable, honestly.

G: Yeah. And also, I find it so fascinating that he jumps immediately to "Well, I gotta kill Bobby" [C laughs] because he understands that he can't reason Dean out of this one. [C: Mm-hm.] And that's what I find so fascinating. He just gives up on that front completely [C: Yeah.] because he understands it's not gonna work. And if this was about something else, and Sam had his soul, he would have argued to hell and back with Dean. He would have. But I just find so fascinating that without that soul component, he's just like, "Yeah, Dean is an unreasonable person to have this conversation with," which is true.

C: Yeah. God. Love it when they make an episode that's like, "And Sam's so dangerous. His soul needs to go back in!" And we're just like, "He was right for trying to kill Bobby."

G: [laughs] He wasn't right for trying to kill Bobby! But like-

C: I think it was a reasonable thing to do. [G laughs]

G: It was reasonable, and his mistake was not communicating to Bobby why he was trying to kill him. [C laughing] Like, he should have done it.

C: Literally! [both laugh]

G: He should have did an evil villain speech that made him more empathetic to the audience, thus making him a complex character.

C: Yeah, yeah. But he won't because, I mean, he doesn't care about being sympathetic to the audience. He cares about not dying. Which again, reasonable.

G: That's actually an excellent point. He didn't care if Bobby knew.

C: Yeah, but he did say sorry to him.

G: Oh, that's true! Wow. [C: Yeah.] Love patricide.

C: Love it. [G: Yeah.] Bobby asks about Dean's half of the deal.

So Sam starts leaving, and Dean's like, "Huh?" And Sam's like, "I totally understand where you're coming from. I just need to... [both] time to think!" Love it! And then he goes out to Bobby's metal yard- what's it called? [G: Yeah.] Scrapyard? Scrapyard.

G: Junkyard, where cars go to die. Salvage yard.

C: Salvage yard, yes. And he was apparently looking for where they hid Death's ring so that Dean couldn't use it for his end of the deal, but Dean has already taken it.

G: There's fully just a hole in the ground, shout-out to Dean.

C: Yeah, love it. And Dean's like, "Sam, I'm your bwother! I'm not gonna let you get hurt!" Untrue. And Sam's like, "Okay, fine. I'll trust you here, barely, because you're the one with the moral compass, so I should." Love when somebody lies. And Dean's like, "Okay, yay! Bye!" And then-

G: Immediately turns around to tell Bobby to watch him.

C: - tells Bobby, "I don't trust Sam. Watch that bitch." Yeah. I don't know. Fascinating dynamics here.

G: Yeah! And he says "Watch him." so loud, too, in a way that is supposed- [C laughs] Like, the way it's shot, it's implied that Sam hears it, which is also very fun.

C: Yeah. I don't even know if Dean wanted Sam to hear. It's possible Dean wanted Sam to hear it.

G: That's true, that's true, yeah.

G: But Sam probably did hear it, and now it's just Sam and Bobby. [C laughs] Sam asks, "Okay, are you gonna lock me up now in the panic room?" And Bobby says, "Do I have to?" And Sams goes, "Noo!"

C: I mean, currently, that is true. He has no plans to kill Bobby yet.

G: Yeah. He says, "Well, let's just wait for Dean to get fucking going." And so Dean does. He goes out, puts on the ring, and Tessa's there. And yeah. Tessa explains what they're gonna try to do, which is that they have a list of names that Dean can't look at, and for the next 24 hours, he just has to kill who is on that list, basically. So they go around the town, killing people. And like, I find this fascinating. Does Tessa have this power?

C: The touching people and they die power? No.

G: Yeah. She's just a reaper. She's not a killer. Wow! [laughs] We should not.

C: She's not a father, she's a killer.

G: Yeah. Well, RIP to- Who the fuck does Jeremy Strong play in Succession?

C: Kendall?

G: Kendall. [laughs] I always forget his name. But yeah, RIP to Kendall Roy. He's not a killer. So he just touches who's supposed to die. They die, RIP. And if he removes the ring before the 24 hours, times up, and also he's not gonna get Sam's soul back. Okay. This entire sequence is so like- [C laughs] You learn shit you learn when you're in third grade. [C laughs] [C: Uh-huh, yeah.] You know what I mean? And it's so wild. It's kind of wild to see it on your screen, played by adults, complete with a straight face. [C laughing] Like, what is this? And also, the morals are just like- It's like, literally, you go to church, [C laughing] the priest tells you "Everything happens for a reason" kind of deal, you know? [C: Yeah.] It's just like, it's both fascinating because it's a very basic moral tale that they play completely straight. And also, two, that they don't add anything to it. [C: Yeah.] [C laughs] It's just that.

C: Yeah. Like, what I learned is that Dean Winchester is stupid.

G: Yeah! Has he never read a fable?

C: [laughs] Aesop! I read.

G: Does he- Yeah. Well, he only read Aesop in between this episode and "Baby," so we have a couple seasons to go. He's gonna get to the point in Season 11 where he has read Aesop, but it's not today. [C laughs] Literally how we describe it, that's what happens. Fully what happens. But before we get into that, we get a fun and fresh scene where Sam summons an angel. And it's Balthazar!

C: There he is.

G: So he tells Balthazar- Like Balthazar calls him out for calling him, like, "Why me?" And Sam goes, "Desperate times, blah blah blah, I need your help." And Balthazar says, "Go ask your boyfriend." Very fun. Sastiel.

C: Yay! Yay! Yay! Yay. [G: Yeah.] [laughs] Love it, love it, love it. Everyone's so stuck on the Balthazar line where he talks to Dean about Cas being into him. But this is just how Balthazar talks, [G: Yeah.] and he said it to Sam first. So think about that.

G: He literally said it to Sam first. And I love that Balthazar's like, "Why don't you call your boyfriend?" And Sam, with no hesitation, just goes, "Cas is busy."

C: Yay! Yay!

G: Love it. And that's what makes them good in bed. I'm so sorry. For the rest of Season 6, we're going to be saying that. [C laughs] And that's so important.

C: Yay! [laughs] Anyway, yay.

G: Yeah. What Sam needs is something to keep a soul out forever. And Balthazar says that, "You don't want your soul back. That's true, and you should not want it back." And he says that he will do this service to Sam for free because it would be very nice for Sam to owe him something. And Balthazar says there's ingredients, blah blah blah, spell, maybe, but what he really needs is to scar his vessel, meaning that he needs to do something so bad that it becomes uninhabitable. And the thing that fits this criteria is patricide?

C: What if you hate your dad? What if your dad has bad vibes?

G: Literally. What if killing your dad is the way to go?

C: I don't know. Fascinating stuff. Also, specifically patricide?

G: Yeah, like, if you kill your mom, it's fine?

C: If you kill your mom, it's cool?

G: Yeah. Well, I think I think, honestly, this should be a soul-to-soul basis situation.

C: Yeah, I agree.

G: It should be a vessel-to-vessel case situation. Yeah.

C: There's somebody each person can kill that makes their body so polluted that their soul refuses to enter because they don't want to live with that. I think that that makes sense. But just being patricide. Fascinating look into the Supernatural philosophy.

G: No, literally. Sam just does a smirk like, "You're so stupid, Balthazar." He goes, "My dad has been dead for years." And Balthazar says, "You need the blood of your father, but your father need not be blood." So dun-dun-dun! It's killing Bobby time.

C: Did people watching thought it might be Samuel? [G: Huh.] Because I think that's sort of the second option.

G: Huh. I suppose I just thought, "Why else would they bring Bobby in here other than to try to kill him?"

C: No, real. [both laugh] Yeah, yeah.

G: That's an interesting question. For Dean, obviously, it's gonna be Bobby. [C: Yeah.] For Sam, is it really Bobby?

C: He loves him like a coworker.

G: It's not, is the thing.

C: I mean, I guess Samuel also loves him like a coworker. Also, I don't know. What even is the metric of "like a father to me"?

G: Yeah, exactly.

C: Like, you love them, they love you? You've done specific things together? What is it?

G: They play a mentor role in your life? What, you can kill your professor? [C: Real.] What's the situation? Sometimes, I do think, what if did Sam did push through with this, and it was just like, "Ugh, Bobby doesn't count. He's not enough of a father to you." [C laughing] And it's like, "Damn it! I just killed Bobby for no reason."

C: Yeah, RIP.

G: So we go back to our fable of the day. Tessa and Dean are talking about stuff that Dean may experience in this 24 hours, and one of them being that people want to ask questions after they die. And a big one is, "What does it all mean?" And Dean asks, "Okay, am I just magically going to know?" Tessa says no, and Dean's like, "I don't know how to do this, then." And Tessa goes, "Well, suck it up." And so they enter a convenience store, and there's a guy who's robbing some guy who has a kid beside him, and they're both Asian. Love it.

C: And they're Asian! [G: Love it!] Love it.

G: And he's robbing these two and asking them to give money over, including the one that's hidden away. And he threatens to shoot the kid, so you, the watcher, are like, "Oh my god! What if it's the kid that dies? There is a kid that dies in Supernatural, apparently." [C: Yeah.] Didn't we have this discussion about "Can children die on screen in Supernatural?" Apparently, they can. I feel like this is an even more maybe direct way to do it versus like, you know, evil child dies, I don't know. [C: Yeah.] You know what I mean. Because it's like a real situation. [C: Right.] It feels realer than creepy child death or whatever. But anyway, that's for later. Now it's not the kid who dies because the older- the adult hands over an envelope to the robber, and while he is trying to open it, the guy picks a gun from his register and shoots the robber. And now he's on the floor bleeding out, and Dean's like, "Wow, I guess he died."

C: He really stoked about it.

G: Yeah, he's like, really happy that this guy got shot. And Tessa goes, "You need to touch him now so that he'll die." But Dean goes, "Oh, he's in agonizing pain, right? I'm just gonna wait." What an asshole.

C: Yeah, love how Dean's first moment of going against the rules of this bet is that he loves torture so much.

G: No, literally. [laughs] Yeah. [C: God.] "Oh, I don't want to torture monsters, even though they're monsters, because torture is fundamentally bad!"

C: "But I will torture monsters all the time, too! I love torture, and also, I love torturing this guy!"

G: Literally. And yeah, finally touches the guy. The guy goes like, "Why?" And Dean goes, "Mostly because you're a dick. Enjoy the ride down, pal. Trust me, sauna gets hot." Something- Dean.

C: I don't think so. I don't think this is right.

G: It's so awful. And then like, Tessa's just like, "Okay, come on now." [laughs] And the guy just walks there. He doesn't even try to stay on Earth, which we know can be done.

C: Yeah. Dean's been through Hell torture. It was really bad. Would he really- is this just like- Okay, robbing someone, threatening to shoot their kid, not good. But this is the bar or the line at which he's like, "Somebody deserves that for eternity"?

G: Literally. He was there. [C: Yeah.] "Oh, I'm so happy that this guy is gonna get tortured for thirty years and then start torturing other people and then become a demon in the future!"

C: Yeah, no. Also, if he thinks this guy sucks so badly, this guy's probably gonna decide to start torturing people immediately, right? Like in Dean's mind? So like, what's the gain here, right?

G: Yeah, I don't know.

C: He's like, "This guy sucks. He's fundamentally violent. That's why I think that he deserves to be tortured forever." But in the Hell structure, what that means is that Hell just gained a new, good torturer.

G: Yeah. He's gonna shoot up those ranks.

C: Yeah. [G: Well.] It's very confusing to me.

G: Yeah, it's gonna make the workplace more toxic and competitive, Dean. [C laughs] Have you considered that? [C: Yeah, literally.]

But okay, their next gig is, as they're walking out they see a guy, and he is-

C: And he's fat! Gasp!

G: And he's fat, and he's eating a pizza!

C: "How could he? Doesn't care about his life? Doesn't he care about his family's life? What a loser! I hope he dies!" is all things that Dean is thinking and basically says.

G: It's so wild- honestly, it's so wild to me [C laughs] in TV shows where they would show quote-unquote "a fat person," [C: Yeah.] and the person is like literally [both] not fat. And also, the fatphobia is insane. [C: Yeah.] What's going on with that? But anyway, this not fat guy [C laughs] that Dean has predicted is going to get a heart attack gets a heart attack, and then he falls down and dies. And Dean tells the guy- The guy asked, "Why did I die?" And Dean goes, "Oh, it's probably the extra cheese. Like, look at you." [C: Yeah.] It's just so- What's going on? But anyway, the guy agrees with him? Like, "Yeah, I mean, that's probably why."

C: Yeah. And I feel like the lesson is supposed to be "You shouldn't be blase about death in any way," but instead, it's just, "Some people deserve to die, and some people don't, but you have to do it anyway."

G: Yeah, some people imagine a burger. [laughs] If Dean tried to explain why death happens, he just goes, "Imagine a burger." [C laughs] And yeah, he has this bit where he asks the guy, "Oh my god! Is that a local joint?" and Tessa has to reprimand him to stop doing that. And the guy asks, like, "What does it all mean?" And Dean goes, "[singing badly] Everything is dust in the wind." [C laughs] And then, you know, the guy is like, "How dare you sing a Kansas song to me incredibly terribly and maybe out of tune?" [C laugh]s And yeah, Dean's a little bit offended, I guess. And Tessa goes, "Sorry! He's new." Honestly, Tessa is a bit irresponsible in the workplace.

C: Don't say that. Don't do that, Tessa.

G: Like, especially later with the kid, it's insane. No, no, not the kid.

C: No, with the nurse. She's like, "Oh, you died because that guy over there fucking sucks!"

G: Not only did she say "You died," she said, "You were supposed to live a full, beautiful life and it has been robbed from you," which is like not- When I die, I don't want to hear any of that shit. [C laughs] You tell me I lived a full life. That's what you tell me. [C: For real.] You don't tell me, "You could have been 78!" I don't care.

C: Yeah. "If you lived the next day you would have tripped over a rake, it would have hit you in the face, you would have fallen over face-first into a pile of shit. Thank god you're out now."

G: Yeah!

G: The next portion of this fable is now Tessa and Dean going up to a hospital. And in the hospital room that they're in, there is a kid who's connected to the monitors and stuff, and her dad, who is reading to her, but a photo album.

C: Showing her a photo album, yeah.

G: Yeah. And Dean- There's also a nurse there, and we zoom in onto her name tag so we can get familiar with her, I guess. And Dean [laughs] asked, "The kid or the dad," which is like, kind of a wild thing to say when you can clearly see that the child is the one who has, you know, all of the wires and shit. [C: Yeah.] But yeah, he says, "Oh, this kid is so young." Apparently, she's twelve, and etc. etc. And insane thing-

C: No, fascinating. Fascinating next question. I was shocked.

G: I was like, "What a lovely writing choice." But he asks, "Does this guy-" as in the father- "have any other family?" [C: Insane.] And Tessa goes, "No, not really." And that's the thing that puts him off the most.

C: Yeah, like, what?

G: That, "Oh my god! This dad's twelve-year-old is gonna die!" How about the twelve-year-old who's dying? Have you considered the twelve-year-old who's dying? [laughs] I think it is an excellent writing choice because it really hammers home what it is-

C: [laughs] What Dean cares about.

G: Yeah. He's not thinking about Sam, you know, the whole bit. Because this whole morality tale that Death is making Dean experience is about how they keep on trying to revive Sam and each other. I don't know. They keep on trying to live longer than they should, and Dean specifically tried to revive Sam and then bring Sam's soul back and all that crap, all that crap. What he's trying to say here is that "You should stop doing that." And then now, we see here, very visibly, that he's doing it not because of Sam but because of himself, because he doesn't really have any other family.

C: Yeah. Besides Bobby, who's like a father to him. [G: Yeah!] I would be asking, "Does this kid want to be an astronaut when she grows up?" But yeah, yeah, crazy stuff!

G: Yeah, anyway, Dean asked if he can skip this kid. Tessa says no, and Dean says, "Well, I have the ring so I can do whatever I want." And Tessa says, "You know, it's destiny." And Dean says, "Fuck destiny. I spent my whole life fighting destiny, so I don't even give a shit. The little girl gets to live." And Tessa points out that "Every single time you tried to fight destiny, it didn't really work out for you, so like, whatever." It's just- Supernatural's take on fate and free will is so fascinating because the explicit things that they are saying is that, you know, "We should have free will! And we should-" and you know, it's complex, obviously, and it's a theme that they explore throughout the show. And the intensity at which they try to peddle perspectives differ throughout the entire thing. But most of the time, the text is like, "We should have our own actions, and we should have free will, and free will, it's so important, and we should fight destiny!" But all of the subtext is like, "You shouldn't. You should just accept your fate." The show ends how it ends. [laughs] So I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. It's fascinating.

C: Yeah. I don't know. And I love how okay, even in this one, where it's like, Dean eventually accepts destiny and fate, but then Death is like, "I'm gonna help you, anyway. So you're special!" [G: Yeah.] What's dead should stay dead, and what should die should die. But not for you, Dean!

G: I think they're trying to have the same attitude that Supernatural has with anything else that it deems is wrong, which is like, "Yeah, it's wrong. But the only thing that you need to do about it is frown about it." [C laughs] [C: Yeah.] So like, yeah, you can, you know, fight destiny all you want, but it's still gonna catch up to you, no matter what. But as long as you're sad about it, it's fine. [C laughs]

C: Yeah, we'll let you get out of it.

G: Yeah. Anyway, the little girl gets wheeled to the operating room, but then they check on her. Her heart's completely fine, and now she has a miracle, so they don't have to operate on her anymore. And then we go to the nurse who is now heading out because her surgery was cancelled and she can go home early. Dun-dun-dun!

C: Dun-dun-dun!

C: So back at Bobby's, Sam comes in from the whole talking to Balthazar thing, and he and Bobby drink some beers, they play some poker. It's all very tense. And when Bobby offers to go to the fridge to get another beer, Sam sneaks up behind him to knock him out with a wrench! Love it. But apparently, Bobby had a baseball bat in the fridge [laughs], which he uses to hit Sam first. And he's like, "I'm not fucking stupid, Sam," but he's disappeared when he turns around. So there's just a thing where, you know, [laughs] Sam's chasing Bobby around the house or whatever. Bobby's in the closet.

G: He's hammering through the fucking closet. Bobby's in the closet, first of all.

C: Yeah, he's in the closet. Shout-out. And Sam starts whacking an axe against the door like- what is it called? The Shining?

G: Yes, he's The Shining through the door.

C: Like in The Shining. And Bobby's like, "Haha! Got you!" And then he pushes a button, and Sam's apparently standing on a trap door [both laugh] that deposits him in the basement.

G: And the way the way they do it is Sam goes, "Well, Bobby, you should have not cornered yourself," and Bobby goes, "I didn't." And then he pushes the trap door open. Honestly, I would love to know the architecture of this place. [C: Yes.] How is it there? Is there like-

C: How did he do it?

G: Maybe the reason this house fucking gets destroyed later is because Bobby removed all the load-bearing foundations [C laughs] to make all of this shit.

C: No, literally. Literally. Fascinating house. Love it. And Sam tries to break down the door, but apparently, it's made out of reinforced steel and titanium, so he can't. So Bobby's like, "Okay, let's just talk." And Sam's like, "Okay, yeah, I guess I can't get through this door to kill you. Let's just talk!" Though he may also be waiting for Bobby to let his guard down. It's hard to know exactly his intentions at every point. Oh, I forgot! When Sam corners Bobby, he does specifically say, "I got to do this. I'm sorry," which I think is nice. [G laughs] I don't know if this was like, [G: He's so niceys.] he thought that this was the last moment, and he actually did feel sorry. I guess I'm wondering like what his motivations in saying sorry were. Was it like, "If this doesn't work, I want Bobby to continue seeing me as sympathetic so that I can continue to maybe have a bit of a leg up," or like did he feel it? I don't know.

G: I think sometimes you just go, "Sorry!" just like before.

C: Yeah, yeah, but he could also not talk, you know? [G: That's true.] There's no reason that he needs to talk.

G: That's true, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it is a choice to say, "Sorry, Bobby." [C: Yeah.] And I mean, I said earlier that he doesn't explain himself, and it is true, but he does a little bit.

C: Yeah, he does a little bit. Yeah, while they're having this conversation through the door, Sam says that he has to do this because he'll die if Dean puts his soul back in, and he can't let it happen. He goes, "I mean, it's not like I want to kill you. You've been nothing but good to me." Untrue! [laughs]

G: Literally not true.

C: Literally not true, so he must be lying about all of it. [laughs] And Bobby's like, "Oh, is it a demon deal?" And Sam says, "It's a spell." And Bobby's like, "You're making a mistake," and Sam says, "I'm trying to survive." So true. Literally reasonable, honestly. Yeah, Bobby keeps saying the wall's gonna work. Sam is skeptical. And then he says, "What if it doesn't work? Dean doesn't care about me. He just cares about his little brother, Sammy, burning in Hell. He'll kill me to get that other guy back." Love it! Love lines, love the truth. And Bobby goes like, "Yeah, that's scary. But you're scawier! Because you're not in your right head, and you're not giving us much choice here." He was basically fine before this. I mean, he wasn't entirely because he let Dean get turned into a vampire and all that [G laughs], but like, literally he was fine. Have we considered that? [G: Yeah.] Have we considered that he was fine? I don't know. I feel like all of his actions follow a logic that you can anticipate. And I think that it's not pleasant to be hunting with someone where you know that [G: Yeah.] if you do something that goes against like one of their deeply-held rules about how they want things to go, that they'll turn against you, but you also don't have to be hunting with him, and maybe if they focused more-

G: They should just let Sam into the world, let him loose.

C: Literally. if they focus maybe a bit more on the "Oh, I definitely probably got innocent people killed when I was hunting earlier, soulless, with the Campbells," I get that as a motivation. But yeah, right now, I guess the only motivation is, "I wuv my real brother, and I need to keep this guy here so that I can get my real brother back."

G: Yeah. Also, Sam allegedly breaks his leg in this one.

C: Does he?

G: Yeah, they have like a shot of his- I was watching. [C: Yeah.] I'm just really proud that I was.

C: Good job. It is bloody.

G: Yeah, he has a bloody leg. Or was it a gash? Maybe it was like, he got scratched real bad, but his leg was bloody. I thought it was broken. So when he was walking, I was like, "Why is he walking not weird?" I thought he had a broken leg. But yeah, maybe it's just a giant fucking gash. But it's relevant to the plot that he's getting blood everywhere. [C: Yeah.] Also, we completely bulldoze over this. This is the plot of the last half of "Mystery Spot."

C: Oh, yeah!

G: Sam was trying to get Bobby, too. So you know what? I just truly love that now it is evidently- it's safe to say- a recurring theme! [laughs] [C: Yeah.] Sam trying to kill Bobby! It's so important.

C: It is. Bobby starts not hearing anything from the other side of the door, and then he opens it. Stupid! I would just assume that Sam was trying to lure me into a trap. But yeah, he looks through, and apparently Sam went through to the panic room and then broke out through the vent in the ceiling. Love being tall.

G: Now we're back to Dean and Tessa. Tessa is obviously very tense as she's walking around the hospital. And Dean is kind of pestering her like, "What? You're mad at me now? Come on." But then they hear siren of ambulance being wheeled out. It's the nurse. She got into a very bad car crash. Her heart's doing bad, and they need the surgeon for the heart, and he's not there. Dean realizes it's the nurse, and he starts feeling incredibly guilty. And Tessa is like, "You just knocked over a domino. Everything you do has consequences." She wants Dean to touch and kill this woman. And Dean, you know, doesn't want to do it because she's not on the list, but Tessa says that "If you don't kill her, it's gonna set up even more chain reactions." I thought, honestly, that the surgeon was also gonna die. [C: Mm.] 'Cause the way they worded it is like, the nurse gets home early, gets in a car crash she wouldn't have, and she needs a heart surgeon. "And where is he?" And it's like, "He's about to get into a car crash, too!" [laughs]

C: So true. But no, it's just he also left, so he can't help her.

G: Also, it's a little bit wild that they did not do a lot of resuscitation. Or I suppose we didn't see what was happening while they were on their way to the room. [C: Yeah, yeah.] There's probably a lot there already. She just she dies after he touches her. Her name's Jolene. [singing] Jolene, Jolene, Jolene, blah blah. I don't actually know how that song goes. [C hums] And now she's staring at her body. And she goes, "But I'm..." and Tessa continues her sentence like, "Yeah, you're so young. Actually-" This is crazy. She says, "Actually, you were supposed to live for many decades, have kids, grandkids." And Jolene asks, "Then why?" And Tessa says, "Because he screwed up." [C: Yeah.] Why would you do this?

C: She's being spiteful towards Dean.

G: She's being spiteful towards Dean, ruining this woman's life even more than they already have, the both of them.

C: Yeah, I mean, she's reaped a lot of people. I feel like she doesn't feel that much sympathy anymore.

G: It may be true, yeah. But Dean still tries to say "I'm sorry" to her. The husband comes in and sees that his wife is dead and cries over her body. And Tessa and Hilary go over to [C: Dean.] the hospital room where the kid with the heart disease is in. Tessa says that she is disrupting the natural order by being alive. "Chaos and sadness will follow her for the rest of her life. We tried it your way. So now we have to kill her for real." Which is like, kind of wild.

C: They have "Faith" in the "Then" sequence, and I think it's because of this moment? I think we're supposed to go, "And because Dean also cheated Death, chaos and sadness is following him for the rest of his life."

G: Crystal. He literally died and went to Hell.

C: Yeah.

G: So like, isn't that the one that is the-

C: Eventually, he got there?

G: No no no. I mean, I suppose "Faith" is the first time that they do it in the show, so it's gotta count for something.

C: Yeah, wait, "Faith" was in the- Was it in the "Then" sequence? I thought it was. Or was it not?

G: I don't think it was.

C: Oh, was it "In My Time of Dying."

G: I think it was all Tessa. It was all Tessa.

G: Okay, yeah. It was "In My Time of Dying," then. Never mind.

G: So you're talking about Dean dying in Season 2, basically.

C: Yeah, I remember there was a scene in the "Then" sequence where he's in the hospital, and I got it mixed up which one it was.

G: Yeah, I mean the only thing- the way I recognize that episode now is through the title that we gave it in the podcast, [both] "FEET!" All this is happening while Dean is watching the husband get into his car while super drunk. And he's off, driving away, so Dean goes, "Okay, whatever. I'll kill the girl, but let me handle this first." So he hops into the car, but obviously, the guy can't see him, and he's trying to tell him to stop the car, but obviously, it's not working. And so he removes the ring as the guy's about to hit a giant truck so that he can veer-

C: Also, to be clear. He's not just drunk driving. I think it's clear that he's [both] trying to kill himself.

G: Yeah. Dean comes in because he sees that he's drunk driving, and then, as the driving progresses, it becomes more and more obvious that he is suicidal. Dean swerves the car so that it crashes into an empty car instead of the giant fucking moving truck. The guy is unconscious for a bit. It's still a pretty bad car crash, but not death bad, you know? And so Dean opens up the door, heads out, and says, "Tessa, I need a ride home. [C laughs] I know I didn't do it, but can you at least zap me back?" And we have this like extended bit where the guy in the car wakes up, and he looks over at Dean, and he sees the moment when Dean becomes invisible. This is never revisited, but it is pretty fun. [C: Yeah.] Dean puts back the ring on, and Tessa is there, but he decides that he needs to finish the job. So he goes to the room where Hilary is-

C: Hilary being the little girl.

G: Yeah. And he whispers to the dad, "You have to wake up because I'm gonna kill her now." And the dad stares awake. And then he touches the girl's hand, and she dies. The last scene of this whole thing is the girl in spirit form now, looking at her body being resuscitated, and her dad is watching on the side. And she goes, "What about my dad?" And Dean says, "He'll be fine." The girl asks, "Really?" And Dean says, "I have no idea." And the girl says, "I can't just leave him. It's not fair." And Dean goes, "I know." So she asks why, and Dean says, "Well, there's a natural order to things." And Hilary, the kid, says, "Well, natural order is stupid," and Dean agrees. It's such a nothing. [C: Yeah.] I feel like this is the kind of shit that again, you learn in like, a special Elmo episode where they talk about Death. [C laughs] Or I don't know. I think an Elmo episode is actually gonna have a little bit more complexity. [C laughs] I don't know. It just feels so- it's so nothing in the kind of thing that it's trying to deliver. And Supernatural is not typically a show I have high expectations on on things, but whenever they talk about death, and meaning of dying and also fate and free will and blah blah blah, I do think they generally always have something interesting to say, at least. And so it is completely fascinating to watch this episode try to have this message. And I get that they're trying to attribute it to Dean's life, and that's the entire relevance, which is what Tessa says later. "The whole point of this is to teach you, Dean, a lesson." But when laid out like this, it just seems so stupid. It seems so juvenile, is what I think.

C: Yeah, I don't know. Could it be attributed to just Dean being a hunter? I don't know. I guess his whole job is to prevent people from dying, and then the people who do die are the people he kills who "deserve" it. [G: Yeah!] And so he just hasn't thought about it that much. But also, his dad died. [laughs] [G: Yeah.] And Ellen and Jo died, and Pamela died.

G: Yeah, I kept on thinking about Ellen and Jo this episode because that is what-

C: They mentioned their deaths last episode.

G: Yeah, that, and two, there is a whole sense of question- the running question in this episode is like, "Why die? What's the point?" or like, "What's the point of living?" you know? And I feel like having a- I feel like Jo and Ellen do have a kind of senseless death. In terms of something that Dean can chew on and analyze, he can think about how like his dad died for a cause, which is to keep him alive, or you know. Stuff like that. Most hunters die in the hunt. But Ellen and Jo-

C: They also died on a hunt.

G: Yeah, but it was- Ellen died to stay behind to stay with Jo, and I think that is something. She was trying to do something in that moment. I feel like with Jo's death specifically, it was because at that moment, they were trying to get to Lucifer, and it wasn't even there yet, you know? She died in the pre-hunt is what it feels like, which is like-

C: It was that she had to blow up the building because of the hellhounds?

G: Yeah. They didn't even get to the point of the main contention of the episode yet. And so I don't know. And I think that is the most relevant death that I can think of that Dean has experienced recently.

C: Yeah. Pamela's dead.

G: I suppose he experienced Sam's death.

G: Pamela's death was in Season 4.

C: 5? No, it was- Wasn't it in "My-" no, wait, when was it? It was in- Was it in Season 4?

G: It was because she whispered to Sam, "I know what you're up to."

C: Oh, yeah! [G: Yeah.] She was in a hotel room, and there were demons. What happened in that episode?

G: Sam and Dean went to die for whatever reason. [C: Real.] And she has to bring them back. Oh, no, no, they like just went to sleep for some reason. I don't know. They were doing something.

C: Was this the hunt where there was that kid?

G: I don't think it was the kid. Or maybe it was. I'm not sure. But it's something.

C: Oh, okay, so yeah, Ellen and Jo were more recent.

G: Yeah. And also, I don't know, they're closer to Ellen and Jo. [C: Yeah.] Yeah. And I suppose it is interesting- It did remind me also, I guess, because the death that they most focus on is about mourning the loss of a child. So that's relevant, I guess. Also, I don't know, it is- I never really- I think, in the past, I know from stuff that people are sensitive about children dying, and I never really understood it as a kid. [C: Mm.] But I think I understand it now that I'm older. I'm like, "Oh, okay." Yeah, watching- seeing this is more upsetting than the nurse, for example. [laughs] Sorry. Sorry to that nurse. No, but I just mean I do find the choice that they make interesting, although I suppose it is the easiest choice to make. [C: Yeah.] [C laughs] But the focus on the dad being the one who was left behind with no one, and there's an early mention of "Oh, yeah, that was your mom when she was that age, when she was your age," implying that the mom is not around, probably dead. So I don't know. There's a lot of projection happening for Dean this episode, etc.

C: Yeah. Bobby's trying to track down the escaped Sam Winchester, and he's able to do so because Sam's injuries means that he's smearing blood [G: Bleeding everywhere.] all around, and Bobby's just following that trail. Bobby gets to a shed, and then Sam knocks him out and drags him in there. And Bobby wakes up, tied up. [laughs] Sam's sharpening a knife. [G laughs] So funny.

G: Iconic, honestly.

C: And Bobby goes, "Listen to me. You don't want to do this, Sam. I've been like a father to you, boy! Somewhere inside, you've got to know that." And Sam's like, "Yeah! Exactly! That's why I'm doing this!" And he's about to stab Bobby but then Dean's back, and he grabs Sam's arm and then knocks him out. Now Sam's in the panic room, tied up. Classic Sam position to be in. And Dean goes, "I can't keep doing this. What am I gonna do? Tie him up every time he tries to kill someone?" [both laughing] Incredibly funny sentence. [G: Yeah.] Yeah. Which, again, I don't think he would do unless he had a good reason!

G: Yeah, and he had an excellent reason for this one.

C: He has a really good reason. And he goes, "I mean, he's capable of anything" is how Bobby finishes it. And yeah, that's their issue. Just that he was able to try to go after Bobby, etc etc.

G: Does he need to eat?

C: I think so. We've seen him eat, at least, right?

G: Yeah, but does he need to?

C: Well, if he hasn't been sleeping because he doesn't need to, I don't know why he would put up the eating front unless he just wuvs it.

G: No, I suppose if- I thought what you were gonna say is, "If he's not sleeping, he needs to get his energy somewhere."

C: Oh, eat more to keep his body going. Yeah, that's also possible.

G: Does he need to drink water? [laughs]

C: Why not? [G: Yeah.] Yeah. And Dean's like, "I don't know what to do!" But luckily, he doesn't have to struggle any longer, [laughs] because he's the specialest boy in the world. He learned his Aesop fable, and now he will be rewarded for it, just like [both] Jane Eyre and her rich uncle. [G: Literally.] Yeah, except did Jane even learn anything? I think she was always right, [laughs] and always knew everything.

G: No, literally. I still haven't finished it. I don't know.

C: Yeah. So Dean sees Death there, who gets him a special, special bacon hot dog. Death goes, "I'm just gonna have a little treat before I put the ring back on." But he was doing his job, right? People were dying still?

G: I don't actually know. And also, is he alone in this?

C: Yeah, no, because there's a lot of people who die. [G: Yeah.] I don't know and will probably never know. Yeah, he's like, "Yeah, sometimes I wish I just wasn't wearing it. But you understand me now!" And Death goes, "If you could go back, would you have killed that girl without all of your protestations?" And Dean says yes, and Death is surprised and glad to hear it. And he thinks that Dean has learned that messing with the natural order isn't fun when you have to clean up afterwards. And he says that the human soul is very vulnerable and impermanent and strong and valuable, and that's what he learned today! [both laugh]

G: Yay!

C: So true, I guess. And Dean's like, "[teary] You know what? I bet you knew that I wasn't gonna win this bet, and I want you to admit that!" Like, obviously! [both laugh] Do people make bets they think they're gonna lose?

G: He wants Death to admit that "it's been rigged from the start!" which is like, a five-year-old-

C: It's not been rigged. It's not rigged. He read something in your character, and then he made you a bet. You could only think it's rigged if you were like, "This is gonna be so easy!" Why would he think it would be so easy? Because he's stupid? Yes.

So anyway, Death is like, "You know what? I'll just get Sam's soul for you, anyway. [G: Yeah.] Just 'cause well, you know, I fucking hate you guys, but I feel like you guys are figuring something out, and I want you to keep doing it. It's about the souls. You'll understand when you need to." Fucking stupid. Death's like, "Okay, gonna do it now. 75% chance that it works." 25% is if Cas betrays you so horribly, I guess. [both laugh]

They rush down to the basement, to the panic room, and Sam sees Death coming at him with a suitcase. And Sam's freaking out. He's panicking in the panic room. [laughs]

G: Yeah. What else is the panic room for?

C: Yeah, and he's yelling, "Don't touch me! Please don't do this!" It's not very pleasant that this is happening. But yeah, Death is unswayed, and he says, "It might feel a little itchy. Do me a favor. Don't scratch the wall." [G: Yeah.] And Sam, at this point, starts begging Dean, not Death, to make it stop.

G: Yeah, which did make me so miserable.

C: Yeah, yeah. [laughs] Yeah. But it doesn't work, and his soul goes back in. And Sam starts screaming, and the episode ends.

G: Yeah.

C: Ugh!

G: Well.

C: Well?

G: What did we think about this episode? As I've said, I mean, I said I liked it. But from our discussion, it makes it seem like it was ridiculous, but those ideas can coexist, so.

C: Yeah. I think it was pretty good. I liked the Sam portions. The Dean portion's, like, okay, I know where this is going.

G: I think it's hilariously the way it is, you know? And I think some bits of it are very interesting, so there's that. Best Line/Worst Line?

C: My first instinct for Best Line is that as soon as Sam's left alone with Bobby, he goes, "So is this the part where you pull a gun on me and lock me in the panic room?"

G: Yeah, that was pretty good.

C: I love panic room mention. Love it!

G: As I said earlier, I like the "It will feel itchy. Don't scratch it." line. I just think it delivers both a real thing and an abstraction to what is going on in this situation. I do actually have a Worst Line that I felt strongly about. I completely forgot to talk about it earlier, but it's the one where, after he sinks Sam with the stick or whatever it is, Bobby goes, "I was born at night, but not last night." [C laughs] I thought it was so corny. And he was saying it to nobody because Sam's unconscious. [C: Yeah.] And I was like, "You think you're so cool, Bobby." I was a hater.

C: Okay, see, I said the same thing about when Crowley said, "Guess I lost my head" when he beheaded the shapeshifter.

G: Yeah, that's also what I remember. So yeah, maybe Crowley and Bobby are for each other.

C: No, for real. They are perfect for each other. Do I have a Worst Line? I'm sure I do. Oh, let's just go with when Dean tells the doctor, "I'm no germaphobe, but what's up with where you live?" or whatever he says. [both] Spreadsheets.

G: Spread those sheets. What is our- Do we have any stats situation?

C: I think we could give a racism point.

G: Yeah, I do think it's evident enough that it warrants more than a 1, so I would give it a 2.

C: Alright. Slay!

G: But I don't think there's others. I don't think there's like really any homophobia or misogyny this episode.

C: Yeah, I would agree with that. They were pretty normal about Tessa.

G: Shout-out, Sera Gamble!

C: Yeah, [laughs] thank you. Or you know what? Maybe it was. Robert Singer. Have you thought about that? [both laughing] Maybe the great feminist Robert Singer really helped Sera Gamble whittle down the misogyny in this episode that she originally put in.

G: Literally. But I do love that- I love Tessa. The more she's around, the more I love her. I don't know if she's ever gonna be back, but [C: Huh.] you want me to look?

C: I think so because we'd probably see her die, right?

G: I don't know. [both laugh]

C: Alright!

G: You know, I'm not gonna look it up, so we can both be shocked and upset. [C: Yeah.] IMDb?

C: This is liked. [G: This is-] It's my turn.

G: Yeah, it's your turn.

C: Um. 8.9? That might be a bit much. I'll just do it. I'll just say it. I'll just do it.

G: I'll go with an 8.7. [C: Alright.] Holy shit! You got it!

C: Oh my god!

G: It's a 9.1. No, I mean, you didn't get it, but it's a 9.1, so you're closer.

C: Ah! This never happens! [G: Yeah.] Wonderful! I should have gone higher.

G: People love Death and, of course, Tessa.

C: Yeah. Death and his ambiguous accent, where sometimes he's American, and sometimes he's British?

G: I was like, "Wow, he's just like me for real." Yeah.

C: Yeah. And we also get Balthazar this episode, who has a British [G: French.], parentheses question mark, parentheses, dash Scottish dash French accent.

G: Yeah, I suppose so.

C: Somebody's calling Supernatural "SN" for short, instead of "SPN." That feels so wrong to me.

G: Yeah. Parts of here are saying that it's nice that Dean remembered Adam. So true.

C: Yeah. [laughs]

G: What the fuck was Dean even gonna tell Ben about like why he died? [C laughing]

C: Yeah, I don't know.

G: "Hey, Ben, if you're receiving this letter, I'm dead." What a terrifying note to receive. But what even would he say is a reason? He has to, right?

C: He could just lie. He could just say, "I died on a hunt, and I had whoever was with me send this letter because I died. Sorry for shoving you that time. [both laugh] I was a vampire. Bye!" [laughing]

G: Yeah. "This one episode would turn almost anybody into a fan of Supernatural [C: Untrue.] because it's a standalone episode. There are so many dramatic, poignant, and ironic moments. [laughs] [C: What?] It is instantly relatable to almost any viewer, even somebody who has never seen an episode of SPN." [C: Uh-huh.] [laughing] I think that's fundamentally untrue, every part of that statement.

C: Okay, wait, this review from June 2020. "I love Dean, like I have an unhealthy obsession with the character, but my added ten years from 14 and the rewatch has me seriously annoyed. Dean is an idiot. I also hate that Sam gets blamed for the Apocalypse because if anyone should even be blamed, it's Dean." [both laugh] Shout-out to this person! Love this journey!

G: No, literally. I went through that. [C: Yeah.] But I'm a Casgirl, through and through.

C: Yeah. "Also, I feel like I missed something. Like I missed Sam being worse, something happening also. What happened to the demon blood? I just wanted to see more of evil Sam." Love this journey for you.

G: Literally. We need to say goodbye now to soulless Sam. We almost forgot. Goodbye, soulless Sam.

C: Oh. Goodbye, soulless Sam.

G: Will be missed.

C: Yeah. God, I wonder how he's gonna be next episode. [G: Yeah.] Does he remember all the shit he did? [laughs] That he just tried to kill Bobby?

G: Yeah. Also, it's wild that soulless Sam is an eleven-episode arc. It feels so poignant. [laughs] It's the last big thing that happens to Sam.

C: That's not true! Season 8 happens to Sam. Gadreel happens to Sam.

G: Yeah, Season 9 happens to Sam.

C: Season- is it 13 or 12 where there's Apocalypse world and Lucifer?

G: That's true.

C: Happens to Sam. He got kidnapped by the British Men of Letters? [G laughs] That happens to Sam.

G: He gets like, really close-up foot torture, yeah.

C: [laughs] That happened to Sam.

G: He thinks he's talking to God, and he's actually talking to Lucifer. Pretty cool thing to happen to Sam.

C: Pretty cool thing that happened to Sam. He meets Eileen! That happens to Sam.

G: Oh, that's so true! He goes on a date with her.

C: Rowena stuff! That happens to Sam.

G: Literally! He stabs Rowena homoerotically. It's so important. [both laughing]

C: Literally homoerotically.

G: Yeah, it counts as homoerotic.

C: Yeah, a lot of things happen to Sam.

G: Well, anyway, this is one thing that happened to Sam that is over now. [C: Yeah.] Bye, soulless Sam.

C: Goodbye, soulless Sam.

C: And that's it for this episode of Busty Asian Beauties. Next week we will be discussing Season 6, Episode 12-

C: "Like a Virgin"?

G: "Like a Virgin."

C: Maybe this is about Sam being back.

G: I mean, it is the first episode where soulless Sam is now soulled Sam, so who knows? Well, leave us a rating or review wherever you get your poddycasties. [C laughs]

C: Follow us on social media. We are on tumblr at bustyasianbeautiespod.tumblr.com. Our official tag is #BABPOD, B-A-B-POD. Thanks to everyone who's donated to our Ko-Fi at ko-fi.com/bustyasianbeautiespod, which is where our outtakes live, and check out our merch at babpod.redbubble.com.

G: If you have any recommendations for outtakes you want to hear from us, [C laughs] we'd love to do it. We'd love to do it.

C: [laughing] I love that you're still trying to do this!

G: No, because we haven't posted anything in a while in our Ko-Fi.

C: Because we don't chat that much anymore, [laughs] I guess, during the episode.

G: During the ep recording. No, I think we do actually chat. I just delete them now. I'm too lazy to.

C: 'Cause it's not- Yeah, so true.

G: Yeah. I think we've run out of things to talk about with each other. [both laugh] We've already told all of our funny stories.

C: What about Jane Eyre?

G: No, that's true. If you want us to talk about Jane Eyre in the fucking Ko-Fi, we'd love it, I think.

C: Yeah, yeah. If you want me to talk about the webseries The Autobiography of Jane Eyre, also let me know. [laughs]

G: You know, I have been reading a lot recently. So if you guys want to hear reviews of things that I've been reading, I'd love to do it. [C: Yeah.] Yeah. Well, email us at [email protected]. See you guys next time. [both] Bye!

[guitar music]

#transcript

0 notes

bustyasianbeautiespod · 2 months ago

Text

Episode 116: You're Just a Baby in a Trenchie

Today, Crystal & Grey discuss Supernatural 6.12 -Like a Virgin. We talk about: when Cas become part of the Winchester family, Sam's "So get this," and whether dragons are called something else.

Ko-fi

Redbubble

Transcript

#spn #babpod #supernatural #supernatural podcast #season 6 #episode

0 notes

bustyasianbeautiespod · 2 months ago

Note

While "not wanting to know it has eyes and a soul" does probably play a role in Americans buying pre-prepared fish meat rather than a whole fish, I think the primary reason is just because it's a lot of work and it's gross to prepare a fish yourself

The butcher does it for you! I mean you can also request to do it yourself but generally the seller deguts and descales the fish for you. I also have degutted a fish myself and don't think it's gross. It's a fish. And also, i think the surprise of finding fish eggs in there which is absolutely delicious and a fun little treat trumps, like, the other concerns one may have which i have established is not awful. I also think trying to impose the level of packaging the US has in their supermarkets is a little bit senseless for an archipelagic country with coasts everywhere. Like, the fish was caught this morning. I don't need it vacuum sealed. It's fresh and the bones impart flavor!

-Grey

#asks

2 notes · View notes

bustyasianbeautiespod · 2 months ago

Text

Episode 115: How Dare You Sing a Kansas Song To Me Incredibly Terribly and Maybe Out of Tune

Today, Crystal & Grey discuss Supernatural 6.11 - Appointment in Samarra. We talk about: Chinese supermarkets, the complexity of Supernatural vs. Elmo, and how the only thing Sam did wrong in trying to kill Bobby is not giving an evil villain monologue about it.

Sorry about the audio in this one!

Ko-fi

Redbubble

Transcript

#episode #babpod #spn #supernatural #supernatural podcast #season 6

2 notes · View notes

bustyasianbeautiespod · 2 months ago

Text

Episode 114 Transcript: Deus Ex Machina That Doesn’t Work

[intro guitar music]

G: Hello, it's Grey.

C: Hello, it's Crystal.

G: And this is Busty Asian Beauties, a Supernatural commentary podcast where I, someone who has seen this show many times...

C: And I, someone who only knows the show through social media, discuss every single episode of Supernatural from start to finish. Also, we are both Asian.

G: Well, today, we will be discussing Season 6, Episode 10: "Caged Heat," written by- It says here, “teleplay by Brett Matthews, story by Brett Matthews and Jenny Klein, directed by Robert Singer.” This is a Singer episode. There's one zoom, and I did notice it, and I was like, "Ah! A zoom!"

C: Wait, when was it?

G: I think it was when they're about to go meet Meg, right after they talk to Samuel, in the scene where Samuel is like, "[Samuel voice] I'm gonna bring Mary back, [C laughs] and you cannot stop me." they zoom out of Sam and Dean's face. Lovely!

C: Okay. It's a reverse Robert Singer zoom?

G: Oh, no, no, no! They zoom in, and then they head out of the barn or wherever they are.

C: I see, I understand.

G: And I recognized Robert Singer completely. It was so subtle, too. It was like he was trying to hide who he is, [C laughs] but I will know him wherever he goes, whatever he does.

C: Yeah. Brett Matthews previously did “Live Free or Twihard,” which we did not like. [G: Yeah.] Jenny Klein previously did "The Curious Case of Dean Winchester," which we had mixed feelings on?

G: Yeah, this was the one with the Irish guy, right? [C: Yeah.] Loved him. So yeah, love it completely.

C: Oh, yeah, Sampatrick rights.

G: [laughing] I mean, to be fair, hindsight produces some really good memories. Because when you said "Live Free or Twihard," and you were like, "We didn't like," I was like, "Is that true?" [both laugh] But I was like, "Wasn't that the one where Dean gets turned into a vampire? That's such a fun concept!" And it is such a fun concept.

C: It is a fun concept. Except the rest of the concepts were teenage sex slaves that they made fun of the whole time.

G: Yeah. [laughs] What did you know about this episode before going in?

C: I knew that this was the episode with the Megstiel kiss, which she does it in order to get his angel blade, and that sometime in this episode, Dean has a line for Cas where he's like, "I would have given you an hour to fuck Meg before I killed her." Great. Love it. I knew that there would be some conflict between Crowley and Meg over some sort of political issue in Hell. I didn't know that it was in this episode, but obviously, I've seen "Will you, boy?" [laughs]

G: Of course! That's what makes them good in bed, etc.

C: Literally. Literally. And also, the pizza man. The thing. [G: Yeah.] The beginning of the pizza man- not cold open. The "Then" sequence? [G laughs] The pizza man "Then" sequence. It's here.

G: Literally! So many seasons from now. That's in Season 15, I'm pretty sure. Is that true?

C: It's gotta be 8, right? No?

G: No, that's like, in Season 15!

C: Wait. What was the relevance of the pizza man [laughing] in Season 15?

G: [laughs] Literally nothing! [laughs] It literally is just a scene where Cas goes, "If the pizza truly loved the babysitter," [both laughing] and then, like, what's her name? Ruby opening the door-

C: [laughing] And then a bunch of scenes of Dean specifically eating pizza. [both laughing] [G: The Destiel warriors-] I just feel like if it was Season 15 they would have thrown in a scene of Cas babysitting Nora's baby [both laugh] [G: No, yeah.] as well to really drive it home.

G: Well, we will see you when this cold open happens, and it will surprise us both. [both laughing] It's one of those things that like, if I told someone who is not into Supernatural, they'd be like, "I think you're like looking too much into things." But like, it really did happen on my screen.

C: Yeah, it did.

G: Obviously, you've seen the boob contraption.

C: Yeah, I mean, they did it to Jo and Ruby before. Classic.

G: Yeah. Obviously, you've seen it before. Is that true? Like, you know it happens to Meg.

C: I think I did, but I just didn't really remember it. I just assume every hot woman on Supernatural gets to be in the boobstrap table.

G: Who is evil, yeah.

C: Jo's not evil.

G: Who? Oh, yeah!

C: Didn't they do it to Jo?

G: Is that true?

C: Did they not?

G: I don't know. It's been years since we did that episode, probably. [laughs]

C: True. Whatever it was, it's been years.

G: It's been years, it's been so long.

C: I wonder if there's a page for boobstrap table Supernatural. I'm not getting anything.

G: Yeah. Before we start, I do want to say, I don't like this episode, and Crystal does.

C: Yeah, I do.

G: So that's gonna be interesting. Why do you like it? What are the reasons why?

C: I think that after 6.09, it is a very interesting look into the ways that Sam, being soulless, actually does make him a good hunter, [G: Yeah.] especially in the context of these demons that he seems to relate to in a way and seem to relate to him back. I like Meg, unlike you, and I think the reasons that you dislike her are very good. [G laughs] However, I do wuv her still, so it was good to see her. It was good to see Cas. I liked seeing his silly little face. And yeah, I don't know. It just had two characters that I like, and I thought that there were interesting themes and motifs going on.

G: Yeah. Well, the reasons why I didn't like this episode is that I think I am at a point where I'm just so tired of plot episodes. I want a case episode. And with episodes like this, it feels like there's no like room to breathe, you know? Because there's so many things happening. Actually, this one, there's not a lot that happened. It's all just bullshit.

C: It's one mission.

G: It still feels so rushed and so I don't know, like, "Okay, who give a shit?" [laughs] And I understand that these are essential episodes. We need episodes like this to keep the show plot going, but who give a shit, you know?

C: Doesn't it feel rushed because Cas and Crowley are kind of engineering things behind the scenes anyway?

G: Yeah.

C: It feels off because we revisit this in 6.20, and we're like, "Oh my god! Those weren't even his bones!"

G: Yeah, I suppose so. I mean, I don't know. I just- I hate everyone. I hate Samuel. [C: Yeah.] I hate Dean. I hate Meg. I hate Castiel in this episode. [C: Gasp.] I hate Crowley in this episode. I mean, actually, Crowley and Sam are fine. Samstiel real. No, that's not- Crowstiel?

C: Cram rights.

G: Cram! How can I forget? How dare I? Well, Cram rights. Sam and Crowley are completely fine this episode. Love Sam. Love Sam! Love Sam! Everyone was so fucking annoying, and-

C: Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention. Of course I know that he fucking chewed through his arm to make a demon trap.

G: Yeah, love that. And then the little grin. Love it! Anyway, let's start with our episode. We start with Crowley tied up to a chair, beaten up bloody. But then, obviously, this is not Crowley. This is a shapeshifter, and the alpha shapeshifter that has turned into Crowley. And the real Crowley is going about torturing this guy. And every time that Crowley tortures now, I do always remember when you said, "They always tout him as like, 'He's good at making deals,' etc, and the only deal he makes is like, 'I'm gonna kill you!'" [both laugh]

C: Yeah, yeah, exactly that.

G: And he's going here, "I'm gonna kill and torture you!" and that's the deal.

C: And then he does. He does both of those things.

G: Yeah, I mean, he keeps to his word. We gotta give him that. That's the entire groove of the conversation. Crowley's saying, "Get me to Purgatory. I know you know where it is. I know you can draw me a map," blah blah blah blah blah blah. And the alpha is like, "No, I don't. No, I don't." [C laughs] And then at some point, Crowley says that he has a whole nursery of all the baby shapeshifters, and then he holds up the phone [C: Baby monitor.] or the baby monitor, I think, [C: Yeah.] to make the alpha listen to the crying sounds. But then he says he'll kill them if you don't tell me. And the alpha goes, "Okay!" And then Crowley kills the guy. RIP. Rest in Purgatory.

C: Real. For real. It doesn't matter if you kill an alpha of a species? It's just whatever?

G: Yeah, like, literally. Because they portray these characters as super powerful with- I suppose it's only the vampire that they make it like they have a-

C: The alpha shapeshifter attacks them in- what? 6.02? And there's a whole, "You can't do it. You can't take them down." Yeah.

G: No, what I mean is the psychic connection with everyone, it's only the vampire that they show that about, right?

C: Right, that's true. So it's not like the alpha shapeshifter could call every shapeshifter over to help. [G: Yeah.] But why not?

G: And also, it implies the idea that if the alpha vampire, if he gets killed, it's like losing like a leader for real, [C: Right.] with an impact of losing that, versus the alpha shapeshifter, where it's like whatever. [laughs] Like, who give a shit?

C: Yeah. Was there nothing about like somebody sensing the father or whatever in 6.02 with the shapeshifters?

G: I don't recall, but I don't think so. [C: Okay.] You get a splash screen. We go to Sam and Dean.

C: God! I don't know. I did not like this opening scene. [G: Why?] The guy's just tied up with regular chains. We have whatever Supernatural's stupidass torture thing is. Crowley, at some point, pulls out the world's most boring looking knife, and he's like, [G: Yeah, and he has this whole speech.] "This is the most rare weapon ever, and it can hurt you for real!" Like, okay. Can it look cool at least? It just means that Crowley's entire operation is just he's telling Samuel to capture alphas, torture them, and then hand them over to him for more torture, which isn't even better than Samuel's torture. Is there literally nothing else you can do like? Maybe there's like a scientific fucking test you can do on like a skin sample to like, figure out the ash levels in Purgatory or whatever. I don't care. This is just boring. I don't care.

G: Yeah, it's obviously not working anymore, so like, are they really so fucking clueless about what to do? Zero ideas? Zero further moves to make?

C: Yeah, if torture doesn't work, I'll just torture some more? [G laughs]

G: Literally. And they built an entire compound out of it. It's a whole thing.

C: Yeah. And if the compound's meant to enact, I don't know, psychological torture as well, then I don't really see the point of killing the alpha shapeshifter right now. Killing him means there's literally no further leads that Crowley thinks that he can pursue with this character, and that just doesn't bode well, I think, for this whole plan. And I think it lowers the stakes or just makes it seem less doable, so we're less invested.

G: And it doesn't even feel like the shifter has been there for a long time from what we see. [C: Yeah.] So like, okay. [C: Yeah.] What Supernatural should be doing is better torture, [both laugh] is what we seem to be advocating.

C: Yeah, I think it is [laughs] that if Supernatural must have torture in it at the level that it does, and as the only solution it has, add a little nuance! Add a little flair! [both laugh] Whatever, dumb. And after he decapitates the alpha shapeshifter, he goes, "Oh, I kind of lost my head there." Who is that for, Crowley? Shut up! I don't like you very much. You're annoying.

G: It's for us!

C: Well, he doesn't know we're here.

G: Or does he?

C: Or does he? I'm the one who supposedly likes this episode. [both laugh] I do. Just not this scene.

C: Sam and Dean are pulling up to these two demons with a car, and they're bringing in a rugaru. Maybe the alpha rugaru. They want to know where Crowley is and why they can only interact with his henchmen. But you know, it just doesn't work. The demon calls them women in two different ways, and then leaves.

G: No, it's a whole extended bit. He's committed to this joke that like, "Oh, really? Well, maybe you stop being a girl." [C laughs] Like, what is going on?

C: Yeah, yeah. What is going on? I mean, Brett Matthews, the only other thing he's written has also had monsters being more misogynistic than we usually see them to be. I feel like vampires weren't the level of misogyny that we saw them in “Live Free or Twihard,” so this could just be a continuation of him thinking what a cool, evil thing to say is?

G: It's also like- I also did get a little bit pissed off. Not pissed off, I just rolled my eyes in the scene where the demon is like, saying his magic line that is supposed to impose fear in Sam and Dean's heart or whatever. And then he changes his eyes to the demon eyes, even though we already knew he was a demon.

C: No, literally!

G: And it's like so fucking corny, tired, and played out. And they played a sound effect of like, "Tuh-tuh!" [C laughs] Like, okay. [laughs] We get it. We don't care.

C: I remember that Christian was possessed by a demon and then you took him away or whatever. That was like, in 6.07, right? That's three episodes ago. If you cared that much, just put it in the then sequence, and then don't do it here.

So Sam and Dean go back to their place, and Dean's just super done with working for Crowley. He mentions that the only thing that's really changed is that now he "needs a daily rape shower," which I think is the start of, though there's also been hints earlier with Crowley saying that he's gonna torture the shapeshifter with a speculum - and I think the demon calling them a little bitch just then - where one of the like ongoing things throughout this episode is like a real, strong focus on the like, demons and sexual assault aspect of demonhood, where a lot of demons assert their power through sexual harassment, and like, I don't know. I think in the past, there was "demon possession is akin to-"

G: As an allegory, yeah.

C: Right. I feel like this episode, it's a little bit more the- I mean, here, it's more the other way around where it's like using rape as a metaphor for interacting with demons rather than using demons as a metaphor for experiencing rape, which I feel like was more how this started.

G: Yeah, yeah.

C: But yeah, I mean, I don't really have a fully-formed thought on that. I think it happens that metaphors end up being two ways sometimes, but I don't know. One of these things is real, and one of them isn't. But anyway, yeah. They get really hard into this thing right now and then yeah, later, I think it's more just rape and demon possession and demons are just two separate things, but rape is a tool that demons use in order to assert power and torture, and all that, which I think we sort of knew already as well. Sam's just like, "Well, we have to keep working for Crowley because we need my soul back." And Dean continues questioning that Sam even wants it. And then Sam suddenly stops replying, and Dean goes over to the other room, and Sam's been knocked out, and then a demon knocks Dean out.

G: Yeah, I do love the scene where Sam disappears. It's like, "Ooh, ominous!" Because a part of me was like, "Wow! He ran off that quick. Good for him!" [C laughs] And I went, "Oh, yeah, they're in the demon show where they get taken by demons. Alright."

C: Sam and Dean wake up, tied up to chairs, and Meg is there. She's also going much harder in the sexual harassment, sexual assault talk in this scene, but not in the direct behavior, because I feel like half the time we've seen her, she's straight up sexually assaulted Sam and Dean. But for here, they're clearly doing like a "bark more than her bite" thing where she's really going hard into this because she's nervous, and she's trying to assert some sort of power in the way that we usually see her doing it.

G: Yeah, which Sam points out.

C: Yeah. She's questioning them about where Crowley is, and clearly just upset and frustrated, and really, really needs this information. Or I don't know about "clearly." It's clear after Sam points it out. So yeah, I mean, she straddles Dean's lap, and she starts saying like, "I'll kill you if you don't tell me." But Sam starts laughing, and he says, "Can't you tell? Meg is so fucking furious. If she could kill you, she would have done it by now. She's clearly terrified. I think that she's running from Crowley because Crowley wants to hunt down all of the Lucifer loyalists now." And when Meg asks, "How would you know?" Sam says, "That's what I'd do." Love it! Love it.

G: Yes! Literally boy king of Hell.

C: Boy king of Hell as fuck.

G: He didn't take the job, but he's gonna complain about who the fuck is doing it. Good for him.

C: Exactly. Did we already talk about how, you know, one way of going to Hell and coming back wrong is becoming a demon, and soulless Sam is also a different iteration of that. How- I don't know. How different is a demon from a soulless person in terms of how the Supernatural writers expect them to act or how their minds work?

G: Well, Sam doesn't have any powers.

C: Right, and I guess he also doesn't have any feelings, whereas demons do.

G: Yeah. Meg is explicitly scared, so like, that's a feeling.

C: Right, but somehow, he still ends up at the same place with how Crowley thinks, at least.

G: I think that thought process is more of a- we're just supposed to not really think about it in a "They have the same mindset." [C: Okay, yeah.] That's not what it's supposed to tell us. What it's supposed to tell us is that Sam is willing to put himself in the situation of "Well, if I was doing that, what would I do?" which is like, a little bit of a morbid thought, you know? I feel like perhaps Sam Winchester, with a soul, would still end up with this conclusion if he thought about it, but it's the idea that he thought about it before, seemingly. [C: Uh-huh.] That is the one we're supposed to go like, "Oh, okay." Do you understand what I'm saying? Like, in the past, he-

C: I think so, but I don't think we're supposed to think he thought about this on the spot. I don't know.

G: I think he's like, in his pastime, going like, "What would I do if I was Crowley?" [laughs] And that's supposed to be the thing that bothers us a little bit or something. I don't know. I'm not bothered so like, I don't give a fuck.

C: Because he and Dean have been working for Crowley for a long time, you'd think that a basic part of strategy is for them to think, "If we were Crowley, what do we think we would do?"

G: They are working for Crowley at a different department. [laughs] [C: Yeah, okay.] So fuck knows what they know about the other departments of Hell.

C: No, that's fair. I think what is supposed to be off-putting is that Sam is so sure that he understands Crowley.

G: Yeah, I suppose maybe that, too, yeah. It is the willingness to- For what I was saying, it's the willingness to get to that level of understanding Crowley and what you're saying is like, the understanding itself. [C: Yeah.] Yeah, I think those are similar enough ideas to be able to-

C: Yeah, live together in harmony.

G: I do, I suppose, enjoy a little bit that- Meg says this later. Sam is finally the person that I think Meg wanted him to be.

C: Yeah, in Season 2.

G: And it's because he's soulless, which is like, kind of a slay. I mean, not a slay in that way, but like it's fun to think about. It's a fun thing to think about, and it does bring up the question you were asking earlier, how different is a demon from a soulless person? I have been- This episode brought up a lot of things about how souls work. Sam is different from his soul. A soul is not him. It's just a component, is, I think, what Supernatural is saying, finally. They will say it later with soulless Jack and stuff, but now, the entire conversation, it never is that Sam is down there, you know what I mean? The soul is a completely separate thing. Which just makes you wonder like, why not just put a different soul in him? [C laughing] Why not just put a different guy in there?

C: 'Cause then there'd be a person without a soul, I suppose. But yeah, none of the memories are associated with the soul. They're in Sam's mind. So yeah, why not just put a different soul in there?

G: Yeah. And I mean, it also makes me wonder, so what was- A soul is different from a consciousness, is what Supernatural is trying to say. Like, Sam obviously has a consciousness right now. He doesn't have a soul. So like, I don't know. They are typically together? It's just in special circumstances where they're apart? But that means that they are apart. They are different things, no matter what, if you can separate them in that way. [C: Yeah.] I don't know. It's like, I don't know what Supernatural really is trying to say with all of the soul bullshit. I don't know what this means or what it's supposed to imply.

C: From the last episode, it seemed like all that a soul did was, what? Make you more empathetic and care about being niceys? [laughs] [G: Yeah.] Like, I don't think that's right.

G: Like, what if the person has a soul but doesn't give a fuck about that anyway? Then what is the soul there for? You know what I mean? What is the soul there for?

C: Yeah. And Sam putting himself in Crowley's shoes for like figuring this out is a form of empathy. [G: Is empathy, yeah.] It's just that they've divided things into good empathy and bad empathy [G: It's not niceys.] in Supernatural.

G: Yeah, well, I don't know.

C: The Meg line that you mentioned later where she tells Sam, "Oh, you're missing your soul. I thought you just like, grew a pair," or whatever her exact phrasing was. I did enjoy that. Because I mean, I don't know. During this whole interaction here, I was wondering like, is she gonna know because she possessed him once? She's had a scene post-Season 2 where she tells him like, "I've been inside your sad little head, so like, I know and understand you," and I just feel like they haven't really done much of that with Meg and Sam since. [G: Yeah.] Right now, they are at a point where both of them basically have the same understanding of who Sam is, like who soulled Sam is. Like, she has his memories from when she was in his head. He has his memories from him currently being in his head. And she was very good at acting as him for a week or so, and he did that to Dean for a little while. They have done very similar things with Sam's body or just his whole vibe. But yeah, I don't know. There hasn't been a lot of that in this episode, and I don't think there will be later on.

G: That is an interesting idea, then. If a demon possesses someone, they're possessing their consciousness? But the person inside is also still conscious. [C: Yeah.] But they have access to the memories. So in Supernatural land, memories is different from consciousness is different from soul. [C: Mm-hm.] Wow! There's so many stuff in there!

C: It's a lot of stuff in there.

G: Lot of stuff.

C: Goop everywhere

G: As you said, there's a lot of sexual innuendo- not even innuendo, just straight up. When she's about slit Dean's throat or something, or she's acting like it while straddling his lap, she goes, "Let's end the foreplay. Either you please me or I please myself." and stuff like that. And then they're tied to a chair, so when Dean's like, "Oh, are you gonna untie us?" she goes like, "Well, don't pretend you don't enjoy it" and stuff like that. [C: Yeah.] And then there's also one guy who's really- They're like, "He's really mean-looking," but I don't actually get why.

C: Yeah, he's normal. [laughs]

G: He's normo-schnormo? I don't know. Like later, Sam kills this guy, and he tells everyone, "He was gonna jeopardize this whole thing because he's so intent on killing us, and you know it!" And I'm like, "I don't know it. I don't know it." Maybe they do, but I don't.

C: For real.

C: And I just am pointing that out because I want to contextualize why I don't like Meg. We've had Meg truly for a long time in comparison to any other character in the show, right?

C: I think she's maybe the oldest recurring character.

G: Yeah, aside from like, John Winchester. [laughs] Well, no, she's older than John Winchester. She was up first. [C: Yeah.] I mean, technically-

C: I mean, we see him in the pilot, briefly. [G laughs] But also like, John's dead. We haven't talked to him since Season 2.

G: Missouri is technically recurring, but I don't think it counts because they recur her to kill her.

C: Yeah, she's only here twice.

G: Yeah. But Meg is our oldest recurring character, and I have historically not liked her, and I have always like held out a little bit because- I don't know. Well, you like her. [C laughs] And also, many people do. And also I know that she's gonna have an interesting relationship with Cas. And so I was like, "Okay, let's hold out" because, you know, etc etc. I think I'm at a point where I'm like, I just don't like her, I think. I don't need to hold out. I don't like her. But you know what? I will hold out so I can have the deep satisfaction when she dies, and I'm like, "See? I never liked her all along." [laughs]

C: Wait, so you're gonna hold out on the- You're deciding not to decide to dislike her forever, so that when she dies you can go, "I always disliked her"?

G: Yes.

C: Shouldn't you just be deciding that you dislike her now and retroactively?

C: No no no. Because if I decide now that I don't like her and will never give her the benefit of the doubt, that's going to seep into further stuff. So right now, I'm still like, "Okay, let's give it a shot. Let's give it a shot." I mean, she's going to be a different character in Season 7 and Season 8. That's true. That's a true thing that will happen. She's going to be- she's going to have a different dynamic with everyone, and so I suppose I shall look forward to that, but also there is so much sour taste in my mouth with regards to her that maybe when we get there, I'll just be further annoyed. But let's see.

C: Let's see.

G: I understand that it's like a Supernatural thing, like it's a writer thing, and there are times when especially a female character is written in a way that I'm like, "Oh, I cannot find it in me to like-" or like, "It's so obvious that these are like, writing choices that are like, based on what the writer is and is being misogynistic versus someone actually trying to do a good job of building a character, you know, and portraying a person." With Meg, I find it difficult to do it. Like, "Whatever, this is just like a writer doing something fuck-all." I find it difficult to actually think about her as a character. And so that's my thing. [C: Yeah.] I don't know. You have talked about in the past about her motivations as like, someone who's loyal to Lucifer and how she changed allegiance, seemingly, in a way that's like, she's a person who needs that kind of thing to survive, she needs to have like something to worship. And like, you know, stuff like that. Okay, maybe that's interesting. And it is. It is interesting. It's just when she's actually on my screen, I find her completely unbearable. [C: Yeah.] So like, maybe Meg shall remain as someone that I think about outside of actually watching the show, [C laughs] because when I am watching the show, I'm just like, "Oh, come on."

C: Yeah, I mean, that makes sense.

After Sam realizes that Meg is running from Crowley, he decides that they should team up. He tells her that he and Dean will tell her where Crowley is, and she can go and kill him, but the Winchesters will come with her, and before she kills him, she needs to get him to give up Sam's soul. But he doesn't tell her what it is. [G: He doesn't say it, yeah.] He says, "Wring a little something out of him." Sam asks if Meg is up to the task, and she says that she apprenticed under Alastair in Hell just like Dean, so absolutely yes.

G: And the way she says it is she turns to Dean and is like, "What do you think?" And Dean goes, "Yeah, she can do it." Which is like, again, it's so, corny, tired, and played out because it is in no way influential to the episode. [laughs] We don't really see Meg do anything to Crowley.

C: She tortures Crowley.

G: How?

C: She does the thing where she like, clenches her fist and then he's falling on the ground choking and stuff, and she says the best torture is hands-off!

G: Yeah. And then he pushes her and then shoves the knife up.

C: That's when she's about to kill her. She did get him to give up the information that he was hiding about Sam's soul-

G: Oh, yeah! That's true!

C: - which is that he's been stringing them along for nothing, because he's not planning to give it back.

G: That's true. Good for her.

C: Yeah. [laughs]

G: Dean is mad at Sam now as they head up, because, like, "How dare you do that? She killed Ellen and Jo." And Sam's like, "Dean, you know what? I know that she's gonna trick us. So you know what? We'll trick her first." And then he says, "We're going to kill them the second that we're done with them." And by them, I do mean the whole group of demons, not they/them Meg. [C laughs] Dean is like, "Well, what if they kill us first?" And Sam says, "No!" 'Cause we're bringing our little angel on our shoulder, whatever.

C: Yeah, [laughing] who we also brought when Meg killed Ellen and Jo, and who was completely useless the entire episode because he got trapped in holy fire. That one. [G: Literally.] We're gonna be super fine with this plan that did not work last time.

G: Exactly. He's also going to get blasted off this episode, don't worry about it. [both laughing] They said, "We need a deus ex machina that doesn't work." [C laughs]

C: Yeah. It's 'cause God doesn't like him anymore. He's just an ex machina.

G: He's an ex deus ex machina. Well, now, we get a truly iconic, [C: So good.] truly iconic scene where Sam heads out, and he starts praying to Cas. But obviously, Cas DGAF. At first he's just saying, "We need you, pwease." He doesn't say "pwease," but imagine if he did. And then he he pivots and he goes, "Oh, the reason why I'm calling you is because there's this fucking gold box that the Nazis really liked in World War II, and then somebody opened it now, and it burned their face off. Anyway, we think it's the Ark of the Covenant." And then Cas is just there. He's there immediately. And he goes, "Where's the box?" And Sam goes, "Wow! You're so fucking stupid!"

C: And he does say that like that.

G: No, he goes, "I can't believe you fell for that. It's the plot of Raiders, idiot." Love it! That's actually worse than saying, "You're so fucking stupid." [C laughs] Yeah. Anyway, Cas is like, "Why did you call me? I have so many things! I'm so busy." And Sam says- he's really going at it. He's like, "I'm gonna bite your neck off." He goes like, "I don't care if you're losing. I don't care what you're fucking doing. You owe me, and so if I call you, you go down here." And then Cas is trying to explain himself. He's like, "You may not care, but like, believe me," blah blah blah. And Sam's like, "Do you think you're here to negotiate with me? If you can't help us, I will hunt you down and kill you." And Cas through this whole time has been mildly apologetic. [C laughs] He is intent on trying to explain to Sam why he can't come down. He just looks at Sam incredulously, and he takes a pause, and then he goes, "Will you... boy? How?" [C laughs] And Sam goes, "I don't know yet, but I will look into it until I find out, and I don't sleep."

C: That's what makes them good in bed.

G: Yeah, we're gonna reblog that again. We've already reblogged it before, I'm pretty sure. We have got to have.

C: Yeah, probably.

G: But when was it time?

C: I don't know. Soulfisting?

G: No, we didn't. I didn't. We didn't mention it until fisting. Can you believe it?

C: We mentioned it before that, I'm sure.

G: We have, definitely. I think we mentioned it- we probably mentioned it. I don't know. I'll reblog it. Anyway, Cas is like, "Okay, fine whatevs." And they show up, and Dean's like, "Wow, you actually showed up." [C laughs] And he's impressed by this. It does make me wonder how many times they have tried to call Cas that we don't know of, if they're like- Because we only saw- What have we seen of Cas and Dean. And Sam. [both laugh] What have we seen of Cas and Dean and Sam?

C: Ha, haha. In Season 6?

G: Yeah. I think the last time when was the last time we saw Castiel, was it literally the whiskey pouring scene? It must be after that.

C: Wasn't he there in "Family Matters" briefly, to meet with Samuel?

G: Oh, yeah, to check Sam's soul?

C: Yeah.

G: Okay, you're right, you're right. He was there the whole Sam soul debacle. Yeah, and that comes after the one with the pouring the wine or the- not wine. That's too gay. [C laughs] The whiskey. Also gay.

C: No, because that was in the "You Can't Handle the Truth" episode, which is the one right before.

G: Okay, got it. So we have established that Cas doesn't show up. But the last time Dean called him, seemingly, he showed up. And so how many times have they called?

C: Every time he shows up, they're always like, "Thank God. I've been calling you for five million months." so I think they just don't show us the times when they try and fail.

G: Yeah, that's fun. That's fun to think about. Yeah. And I do wonder about the line "You owe it to me" or something.

C: Well, yeah, it's just because Cas didn't answer him for the whole year.

G: But he's not answering again, so like, I don't know. So that's what Sam is talking about?

C: I think so.

G: Do you think Sam has any inkling that like, Cas left his fucking soul behind?

C: I don't think so, right? Because there's the beautiful, beautiful Sastiel scene of, "Cas. Did you leave my soul behind-" Oh, no, sorry. "Cas. Did you bring me back soulless... [both] on purpose?"

G: Ah, love it! I love it!

C: So good. That's what makes them good in bed. [laughs] [G: Literally.] Yeah, I do wish that- I know the point of the whole 6.20 reveal is that it's a big old twist, but like, I just I wish I knew the details of whatever the fuck was going on with Cas now, so I could analyze his motivations better because I only know half-things.

G: Yeah, I mean, as I've been saying since the beginning of this damn season, it's such a brave season to do. After your blowout season that was supposed to be the end of the show, you're like, "We're gonna go in. We're gonna tell the audience nothing." [laughs] Sam is soulless? You're not going to find out until later. Cas is doing fuck-all shit and is collaborating with Crowley? Literally twentieth episode of the season. It's like, they literally did not give a fuck. And I commend that.

C: I agree.

G: I have to put some respect to it.

C: I think it's good plot stuff, and Sera Gamble probably knew that she was going to be disliked as a showrunner, and she would have to prove herself, and she still stuck to her guns on this.

G: Yeah. And I commend that. It's also just fascinating because they decide if a season's gonna continue not that late in the game, you know? And so if it's like 16 episodes through the season, the audience is still like, "This kind of sucks, man! We don't know anything, and the plot doesn't make sense," that's going to hit your ratings, and it's going to hit your chances of renewal. [C: Yeah.] I wonder if it was like, they were already given Season 6 and 7. Yeah, I'm not actually particularly clear on the renewal situation of Supernatural. But I mean, I think we generally do know for a fact that they were in danger in Season 7. People say that. If I may, I don't like, allegedly, Season 6 and 7, and I have said this for a long time, like, I don't like it. I think I do like that this writer who has been here the entire time- She's been here since Season 1, right? [C: Yeah.] Sera Gamble? I respect-

C: She Andreaversed.

G: Yeah. Oh my god! Should I just keep on using the word "respect"? [both laugh] Well, I commend that she decided that "The show that I entered is Season 1 of Supernatural, and I'm going to try to get it back to at least something akin to the groundedness of those seasons." And like, obviously, it's difficult to go back given what happened in Season 5, but I like that they're trying to make it more here, you know? It's here. It's happening here. And it does feel a lot less like Sam and Dean are pawns the way they were in Season 4 and 5. So yeah, I don't like- [C laughs] I still think I don't particularly enjoy it. And I definitely think that if you're watching it live, it's difficult. It's a difficult watch. Watching it live, not knowing what will happen next. But I commend the bravery of doing a show that's potentially bad and kinda is. [C laughing] Like, good on you. It's just- What I'm trying to say is, I see why this is the direction that is being taken by this particular showrunner who has been here this whole time, and I understand, and I commend the vision.

C: Yeah, yeah, agreed.

G: When Dean is like, "Wow, can't believe you got him back," Sam is like, "Oh, you know. It's because we're besties." [C laughing] And are they? That's what makes them good in bed.

C: Funny as hell. And I assume Cas doesn't contradict him. Cas isn't like, "Noo, Dean! He said he was gonna kill meee!"

G: What if he's like, "No, Dean. Sam's actually threatening to kill me. We still have the most profound bond. Don't worry about it!" [C laughs]

C: Yeah, but I think he isn't telling Dean because if he says, "I only came down for the Ark of the Covenant," Dean's gonna be pissed at him, too, and he needs at least one person on his side when Sam tries to kill him.

G: Yeah, good for him. Quick thinking on his part. [C laughs] Well Cas says that Crowley is hidden from him because he tries to summon him. Not summon, he tries to location spell him. So they're like, "Okay, fine. We have to actually investigate for real." So they go to Samuel's place, the one that we saw Dean in in the past, or the one he tried to sneak in in in the past. [laughs] "In in in the past." But Samuel shows up and is like, "Well, what the hell are you guys doing here?" And they say their intention, but Samuel's like, "No, I'm not gonna join you. I'm gonna keep Crowley safe." And Dean is confused because "We're your grandkids." [C laughs] [C: Stupid as fuck.] And Samuel says the most interesting thing later, where he's like, "What the fuck is that even supposed to mean?"

C: Yeah. For real.

G: "Like, who are you, really?" And I'm glad someone is brave enough to ask this question. [C laughs] I still hate Samuel to my core, but I'm glad he asked it. And Sam says like, "No, please help us because it's the only way to get my soul back." But Samuel keeps denying it. And Dean asks Cas to leave! He's like, "Excuse yourself," and Cas does.

C: He was mid-battle. Did Cas just go- I don't know. It's so wild to me that Cas spends any time down here.

G: Cas literally just turned on invisibility. He's still there. He's just like, "To make them comfortable, I've just become invisible." [C: Real.] But Dean tells Samuel, "You owe us an explanation!" etc etc. I was supposed to quote the movie, but I forgot the actual lines. No. Oh, it's a Filipino movie. [laughs] There's a Filipino movie where they're breaking up, and the guy goes, "I deserve an explanation. I deserve an acceptable reason!" and it's a very famous thing to say here. Anyway, he says that, exactly word-for-word. [C: So true.] The reason he gives is like, "You know, we're your family, and it's something Sam really needs. If you don't want to help us, fine. But I deserve an explanation and an acceptable reason for why you don't want to." [C: Real.] Truly mind-boggling thing happens next.

C: Did you not expect this? I was like, "This is what it is."

G: No, it's just so absurd. [both laugh] It's so absurd! He takes a picture of Mary as we know her from the flashbacks, and he's like, "You know, Crowley promised that he's going to drag Mary from Heaven [both laughing] onto Earth. He's gonna give her back to me."

C: "And also, I don't give a fuck about my wife."

G: No, he has a wife. That's a crazy one. [C: Yeah.] Has a wife. What is this? What is this? [C laughs]

C: I mean, literally the exact thing I expected Supernatural to pull. Of course.

G: An absurd thing he says is, "You know how to live without her. I don't." She's your child! Did you not have a life?

C: You had a lot of years.

G: Did you not have a life prior to having her? It's crazy! [C: Yeah.] I understand losing a child, blah blah blah, [C laughs] but to make it seem like, "Oh, you only lost your mother! I lost my child!" is an insane thing to say to your grandkids.

C: Yeah, I guess the point is that they had time to move on and he never did, but like, phrase it otherwise.

G: Dean can say, "Well, you had time with her, at least. You had twenty years or whatever, and I had zero." No, he had four. Well, Sam should butt in and go, "And I had zero, so Dean should shut the fuck up."

C: Yeah. "But also, I don't care right now." [both laugh]

G: Literally. He's just channeling a memory that he had. But anyway, it's just- it's like, you know, a whole thing. And Dean tells Samuel off specifically about wanting to bring back someone dead because he says like, "It's never gonna work out. And it's never- It's a wrong thing to do. And you have to learn from our experiences," etc. And he goes like, "Oh, this is like our Achilles heel. I didn't know it ran in the family." Which, I don't know. Every time they try to refer to Samuel as their family, it's just so annoying. [C laughs] Like, okay. He's your grandfather. Okay. Who give a shit?

C: Yeah. He also said, "We will figure something else out," so like, what do you mean by that? [both laugh]

G: She's literally in Heaven.

C: You just said that you shouldn't bring people back from the dead, right? What's the else you're gonna figure out?

G: He could also just kill himself. [C laughs] He already knows that Heaven exists.

C: Yeah, he was vibing there, but they're in separate rooms, I suppose.

G: Yeah, he's like, "Yeah, I mean, the thing is, when I die, my soulmate is my wife, so we're just gonna be together, anyway. So might as well just have Mary who gets pulled down here." [C: For real.] He doesn't listen to Dean, and we just end with Dean telling him off. So they head out

G: We get the scene where Cas is watching pornography. [C laughs] You know, I'm so uncomfortable saying the word "porn," but I love to say the word pornography. It really flows out of the mouth.

C: It is a good word.

G: Yeah, it is a good word. Cas is watching pornography, and it's on the TV, and it's a fascinating scene. I was like- Okay. So the situation is, he's watching in front of the TV. He has his little head tilt going on. And can I also say before this, every time Cas walks in this episode, and he's beside Sam and Dean, he looks so ridiculous. Like, he does genuinely look like he hasn't been in a body for a quote-unquote "year" or whatever. And it's so fun. But also, I think Misha Collins just not- I don't know what's up with him, but it's fun to see like on your screen. But anyway-

C: Are we seeing the beginnings of his need for hip replacements?

G: Does he really? Did he have a lot of hip replacements?

C: I think he had some sort of hip-related thing. I don't know. I remember there being jokes going around, at least.

G: Oh, yeah, I remember the jokes, but I don't know if they're based on a reality.

Sam and Dean are off doing their homework, and Cas is sitting in front of the table. He tilts his head. He goes, "It's very complex. If the pizza man truly loves this babysitter, why does he keep slapping her rear." [both laugh]

C: Iconic!

G: And then he goes, "Perhaps he's done something wrong."

C: Oh, he's insane! I love him!

G: Yeah, I do love to see it. I think they really push it a little bit later. I'm just like, "Oh, whatever." But I think- and the way Dean responds is also so fascinating.

C: No, I know. What was that?

G: So Dean goes, "You're watching porn. Like, why?" And Cas is like, "I mean, it's on the TV. It's what's in there." And then Dean goes, "You don't watch porn in a room full of dudes, and you don't talk about it." And then later-

C: And he goes, "Room full of dudes." So like, if it was women, it would be fine? What are you saying? Just that it's gay?

G: I mean, there are, I think, instances where people watch porn together before having sex. So like, I think he's thinking like, "We're not about to have sex, [C laughs] so you shouldn't be watching."

C: Is that real? Is that what's going on, really?

G: People watching porn as like, foreplay? Yeah!

C: No, no, no, I'm saying, is that what Dean means? Because I don't know. Don't people talk about watching porn with their friends and just jacking off together as well?

G: I think some people just also jack off together as well. I mean, have you seen the Beatles? Everyone has seen the Beatles.

C: I don't think I've seen the Beatles. They were a little dead before my time, or not performing, at least.

G: Well, you have seen them in your mind's eye, I'm sure.

C: Jacking off together. Yeah, of course. [G laughs]

G: Yeah. And yeah,"You don't talk about it." You don't talk about porn? You definitely talk about porn. I don't know. Do you? Do you? I don't know.

C: Do I?

G: No, no, no, just in general. Like, "you," general. [C: Yeah.] You do. [C laughs]

C: I think you, general, does as well, but Dean doesn't, I guess.

G: Yeah, he doesn't. And then a truly- So Samuel comes in. He knocks first, and then they open the door.

C: Cas also has a boner. That's important.

G: Oh, yeah, yeah, he looks down, and he's like, "Huh?" And Dean's like, "Well, now he's got a boner." I can't believe he's horny in a room full of dudes! And then Samuel knocks, and Dean, instead of turning off his fucking television goes to open the door first. [C laughs] And then Samuel's like, "Oh, so like you guys are just watching pornos now with angels?"

C: And then Sam turns it off.

G: Yeah, Sam goes over to turn it off, but before that, Cas goes, "We're not supposed to talk about it." [C laughs] It's just a fascinating, fascinating exchange.

C: Yeah, I don't even know what to say about it. It's just- Yeah.

G: I also don't know.

C: It's so important, but I don't know why or how. [both laugh] Library of Congress, for real. Library of Sexual Congress, etc etc.

G: Yeah, and I do find it fascinating. He doesn't seem to have been watching full-on penetrative sex.

C: Right. It's the spanking right now.

C: It was like foreplay spanking or something.

C: Well, he could be doing the speaking while fucking her, I suppose.

G: Also, I mean, the line "If the pizza man truly loves the babysitter."

C: No, no. What were they saying earlier that implies that?

G: Or were they just having sex, and Cas was like, "They must be in love!"

C: Be in real, true love! Aw! [G laughs] [G: Anyway, yeah.] The "perhaps she's done something wrong" is very interesting to me, too. Just that like, under true love, corporal punishment purely because you think someone's done something wrong and you want to hurt them is fine.

G: No, yeah.

C: Shoutout to "Point of No Return," I guess!

G: What is "Point of No Return"? [laughs]

C: Where he beats Dean up in the alley? [G laughs]

G: So true.

C: Should I not be making that comparison? It does seem a bit trivializing.

G: No, no. I just did not expect you to make a Destiel joke, I suppose. [C: Oh.] You're still in my mind a Destiel hater, so.

C: I mean, I am. But the fact that I hate it doesn't [G: Mean it's not true?] stop the fact that it's real. [laughs]

G: Literally. And this is one of the horrible things of life.

C: Yeah, there are canon ships that I don't like, and Destiel is basically a canon ship that I don't like,

G: Yeah. And you basically don't like it.

C: Yeah. [laughs]

G: And also the fact that they end it with that bit, with Cas going "We're not supposed to talk about it" is also a little bit wild. But he does talk about it later. He goes, "I learned that from the pizza man."

C: Well, it's because the room wasn't full of dudes.

G: Well, it was full of two dudes.

C: Yeah, but I guess it wasn't purely dudes there.

G: Yeah. At what ratio [C laughs] of dude to not-dude do you need to have?

C: I think it's the opposite of whether you use the male or female ta in Chinese. I think one woman's presence automatically un-gays it.

G: It's how in Spanish, their they is like ellos the moment you have one singular man in there, yeah.

C: Yeah, but the opposite, yeah.

G: Yeah. Samuel was like, "You know what? I had a change of heart. So this is what Mary would want." And then he shows them the map of where Crowley is. He still tells them, "I wish you wouldn't do this," but Sam invites him, and he goes, "Nuh-uh! I'm not suicidal," is what he says. And so they head out to meet Meg's team.

C: She's outside, and she greets Cas. She goes, "Remember me? I sure remember you, [both] Clarence." Agh!

G: I I would say, Meg, I commend and respect the nickname game. [C: Yeah.] It's very fun. I have not even actually seen It's a Wonderful Life.

C: Nor I.

G: Yeah. [laughs] Do you remember that description that was like- What's his name? What's the name of the guy in It's a Terrible Life?

C: It's a Terrible Life or It's a Wonderful Life?

G: It's a Wonderful Life. That one description that's like, "He's having such a horrible time. He's going to kill himself, [C laughing] and it's Christmas!" And that's so important.

C: God, that is so funny.

G: "George Bailey has so many problems he is thinking about ending it all. And it's Christmas!" [both laughing] Oh, I love it.

C: Cas immediately goes, "Why are we working with these abominations?" Hope for Sastiel and Megstiel here? And yeah, she just goes, "That's hot," etc. And they just talk for a bit and solidify the plan. Meg's gonna go here to kill Crowley. Sam and Dean are gonna go with her. And Sam says that she needs to give him back Ruby's demon knife, which I forgot that she has. And he uses it to kill that demon who apparently hated them so bad but nobody could tell. And Sam says that it's because he was gonna fuck up the mission because he hated them too much, and then he keeps the knife, and Meg doesn't like this, but just keeps on trucking.

So Dean's about to head out, and he's talking to Cas. And he says, "You know, Cas, you could help." Cas is so busy! Cas is so busy. Why is he even- Yeah, okay, whatever. I don't understand why he's here.

G: Dean's like, "Cas, you can go co-host in my podcast." [laughs]

C: Literally, literally. But yeah, he's not helping with packing.

G: Would Team Free Will be podcasters? An important question. Everyone seems to be a podcaster these days, allegedly. People say that a lot, so probably.

C: Sure. Why not? I mean, you know who would be podcasters? The Ghostfacers.

G: I mean, I assume they already are. [C: For real.] I assume they have a podcast that has been abandoned for seven years, perhaps.

C: I believe it. And Cas says, "I'm ambivalent about what we're attempting" because he thinks that if they take Sam's soul back, Sam will just straight up die because his soul's been-

G: No, he says, "Or worse."

C: Or worse, he won't die, but he'll be so so upset. He'll be thinking about ending it all, and it's Christmas! [both laugh] [G: Yeah.] So yeah, Sam's soul has been tortured by Michael and Lucifer for over a year, he could be in so horrible psychic pain, etc. And Dean's like, "But he could also be fine?" [G laughs] And Cas is like, "No, but sure, if you say so." And Dean's like, "Well, if he's not fine, then you fix him." And Cas is like, "I don't think I can." And Dean's just like, "I don't give a fuck about that. It's gonna happen, and you're gonna fix him, and we need his soul back because I hate him right now!" And Cas goes, "Of course. Or we fail, and Sam suffers horrifically." Pretty funny 'cause the whole time, Dean's being like a total asshole from like what he knows, but actually, [laughs] Cas is responsible for much of this. [G: Literally.] So yeah, he probably does feel bad for real, or should feel bad for real. But also, if he didn't do anything, both Sam's, I don't know, body and soul would be down there, so like, honestly, whatever. Cas did the best he could.

G: Also, it is hilarious the way they make you aware that Sam is listening in, where Dean heads off, and then there's an ominous figure in the back, and it slowly, slowly focuses on hi, and it's Sam doing a Kubrick stare. [C: So true.]

G: They head out, Meg only. Her other demons are not there anymore. Sam, Dean, and Cas, they're like walking through hallways and stuff, and eventually, they see somebody in a cage, I think.

C: Yeah, apparently it's the djinn from 6.01 who was the waitress who gave Dean her number? [G: Oh!] I didn't know that, but the transcript says so.

G: Oh, interesting! But anyway, they end up in a hallway when they suddenly hear some noise, and they realize that these are hellhounds, so they end up in a room to hide themselves, and they have a salt line and everything, but when they're inside they're like, "Okay, well, we're trapped in this room. What now?" And Meg goes like, "Okay, well, there's so many hellhounds, and they're all gonna kill us, so what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna fucking get out of here." [C laughs] And so she tries to leave her body, and then it doesn't work. Just doesn't work, straight up. And I will admit, she does look so good in this scene. [C laughs] She looks amazing. And by amazing, I mean incredibly hot. [C: Yeah.] And the way the camera pans up in preparation for the smoke and then stops there, and it's just her with her mouth open. Well, whatever. [both laughing] Anyway. Apparently, it's like a Crowley spell or something. That's what they say, right?

C: Yeah. Cas is like, "I don't know why, but just for some reason, I feel like maybe Crowley - who I don't know - put a spell in this area so that demons can't leave their bodies. Weird!"

G: Sam takes the knife out and then he tells Meg, "You can see them, right? You have the knife." What happens? Meg tells him like, "No, you take the knife. I have my own thing." And what she does is she grabs Cas, then pushes him up against the wall, and then they start kissing, and she sneaks her hand into his coat, and then Cas flips her over and they kiss some more, and Sam and Dean are watching in the background, but mostly Dean. We only get Dean reaction. Is that true? Do we get a Sam reaction?

C: No, we get a shot.

G: We get one, yeah? Anyway, Meg's like, "Wow! What the hell? Guess again" or whatever. She doesn't say that. And Cas says, "I learned it from the pizza man."

C: Meg says that she feels "so clean." Also, when she was reaching into Cas's coat, she was taking his angel blade.

G: I said that.

C: You said that she put his her hand inside his coat, and then he flipped her over.

G: Oh, sorry. Well, yeah, it was to take the angel blade, and now she has it.

Dean's like, "Is that gonna work?" And she's like, "Let's find out, baby." And they head out.

C: Yeah. Megstiel kiss, scene of all time to me. But.

G: Do they have another kissing scene?

C: I don't think so. They had the almost in the episode where she does kill Ellen and Jo, and then they're maybe gonna fuck in Season 8, but then she dies! [G: RIP.] RIP. So yeah, I don't know. I think- Okay, with the "I learned that from the pizza man." And then, later on, Cas was like, "What do you mean you would have let me had an hour with her? For what?" [laughs] Like, fascinating things going on in Castiel sexuality studies right now. [G laughs]

G: Yeah. What what do you have to say about it?

C: I mean, okay. Like Meg, you know, historically weaponizes her sexuality in order to get what she wants. And this is the only case where she's seen somebody respond-

G: Someone take her seriously.

C: Yeah, well take her seriously and also respond in a way where they're both on equal footing about it, I guess. She doesn't end up like, "the winner." She in fact ends up feeling "clean." His angelness or whatever has permeated into her physically or whatever. And I don't know. I think that that is interesting, and it's the fact that it seemingly only works because Cas isn't into it? Or I don't even know what I mean by that. But like, I don't know. I feel like I think it's like Cas isn't engaging in it the way other characters have because of- I don't know what I mean. Do you know what I mean? He has a different relationship to sex than these other characters do. So he's responding to something that was sort of intended as a weaponized sexuality/maybe assault situation differently as a result, in a way where he has quote-unquote "won." Does that make sense?

G: Yeah, I suppose. I feel like there's more to it.

C: I think I think there is too, but I just don't know what it is.

G: I think it's the fact that this she has been using this to assert power, and in this moment, it's not that she's powerless, but she's taken aback, and that is like, something. Because the point of it is the predictability on her part-

C: Yeah, that it'll work how she expects it to, and it doesn't. Something surprising occurs.

G: And I think it works because Cas- you know, I don't think it works because Cas is an angel because we've met other angels, and I don't think it will work on them this way. So I guess it works because it's Cas, and they are really pushing with the "clueless about humanity" thing with him, which they don't push with other angels, definitely not.

C: Yeah, whatever. Shoutout to the post that says that Meg probably just thought that Cas was into guys starting from this episode, and that he made out with a real pizza man, so true.

C: They start heading further into the building, and then Cas gets fucking sigiled away by Samuel.

G: Who has betrayed them!

C: Dean's so upset that Samuel betrayed them. And then Crowley shows up and says, "Hiii. I'm gonna kill both of you." I do wonder how the Cas-Crowley team up works here. Was he gonna kill them for real? They probably would have died for real in the situations they were put in.

G: Do you wanna know? Do you wanna know for real or?

C: Oh, sure.

G: Crowley kind of spares Sam and Dean pretty much only by Cas's vehement, "No, you have to!" about it, but generally, he's like, "Oh, we should just kill them." [C: Real.] So like at this point, I think he was like, "Yeah, no, we're going to kill them for real" because Cas is not around to tell him off about it.

C: Sam and Dean get put in separate little jail cells where we saw other monsters being held by Crowley before. Meg kills all the hellhounds, so the angel blade does work, but then the demon possessing Christian gets her

G: Oh, that's Christian! You're right!

C: Yeah, so true. Samuel shows up to talk to Dean, and only Dean. [laughs]

G: He literally DGAF about Sam. That's his buddy!

C: Yeah, they were hunting together for a year! They seemed like they were pals.

G: I guess he was like, "Well, Sam's soulless. Who GAF?"

C: I guess. Not nice!

G: Not niceys.

C: And Dean's just like, "I hate you. You're a liar. You don't even put blood first, unlike my dad!" And Samuel says, "Mary is like my straight-up daughter, dude." [laughing] And then he says that Dean sold out Mary by- What? Not taking her down from the ceiling when he was four? [laughing]

G: No, literally- [laughing] That was also my first instinct. I was like, "Oh. What?" But I think what he's trying to say here is that "You traded Mary's soul for Sam," which is factally untrue, because Mary, I reiterate, is in Heaven, and Sam's soul, I reiterate, is in the cage with Lucifer. So.

C: [laughing] Real. Okay, that makes more sense. I was shocked at this one.

G: I was also. [both laughing] Yeah, "It was her or Sam, and you chose Sam." Crazy! I was actually trying to do the calculation in my head when this scene was happening on my screen. I was like, "Wait. So like, is he saying that when Dean grabs Sam out of the burning house, he should have grabbed Mary instead?" [C laughs] That's kind of an insane thing to say. But no, he's saying an even more insane thing to say.

C: No, I think the other thing's more insane. I think this one makes sense. You're going against Crowley because you care about getting Sam's soul back more than Mary coming back.

G: No, but "You sold out your own mother"? She doesn't even want to be here. Does she want to be here?

C: I don't know if- I mean, if he's heard about Heaven kind of sucking from Sam or Dean at this point-

G: He knows that.

C: - he could just assume. Yeah, he was there also.

Dean's like, "I can't believe you chose demon over your grandsons," and Samuel says, "I don't even know what Sam is. I'm not gonna protect him. And you? You're a stranger. No, really, tell me. What exactly are you supposed to be to me?" Kind of a giant slay and so correct.

G: Yeah. Well, because it's coming from someone who just said an completely unreasonable thing. It's like, "What?"

C: True. True. Not the best candidate for this line, I suppose.

G: I do love Dean's reply. Love it.

C: Do you? I think that he's a silly man.

G: I love that he says that "I'm the guy you never want to see again [C: So true.] because when I make it out of here, the next time you see me, I'll be there to kill you." He's really going at it. And Samuel- honestly, a little bit scared, goes like, "Don't think there's gonna be a next time." And Dean goes, "Whatever gets you through the night," which I did enjoy a little bit. A fun little threatening situation against your grandfather. Let's go.

C: Yeah, I do think that it's fun in terms of seeing how Dean has completely let go of the "we're your family idea" now. There's a few scenes that are intercut. Sam, Dean, and Meg are all being put through situations. [G: Yeah.] So Dean's situation is that he's taken to a room with two ghouls who are hungy. They're trying to eat him, and he's weaponless. Meanwhile, Sam is preparing for demons to come into his cell by biting into its arm at the wrist really really really hard until it bleeds, and then later, when two demons come into his room, they step in, they realize they can't move, and they realize that Sam Winchester is so tall that he was able to paint an entire devil's trap on the ceiling, using just his arm blood. [laughs] [G: Love it!] And at this, he grins, and you see the blood in his teeth, and it's so wonderful! And yeah, he manages to get into Dean's room and kill the ghouls.

Meanwhile, Meg's situation is that she is, of course, on the fucking boobstrap table. You may remember the boobstrap table from- I don't know. Every other time a woman got tortured in Supernatural? Did a woman ever get tortured normally in Supernatural? She could have just been chained up like the alpha shapeshifter in the beginning scene. The alpha shapeshifter should have been on the boobstrap table. Christian is torturing her with a knife. Meg is trying to stay stoic, and she's trying to make sex jokes at Christian to again, you know, assert control over the situation and all of that, but it is not working, especially because Christian is responding in turn. We learn that Meg's body is a girl from Cheboygan who moved to LA to be an actress, and I guess it's implied that while she was there, she was raped or went through some sort of similar violence. He's trying to- I don't. What is he even trying to get out of her? He says that Crowley "wants to know everything." Like what, though?

G: No, I don't actually know the purpose of this scene.

C: Yeah, nor I. Who knows? They just love the boobstrap table so much. She's being tortured, and then she starts laughing really hard, and then Dean stabs Christian, or his body, from behind, thus fully, 100%, for sure killing his cousin. [G laughing]

G: Love it!

C: "If Samuel's not my family, then neither is Christian"? What's the reasoning here?

G: I don't know. I mean, to be fair, I didn't recognize him as Christian. Number two, I don't understand the purpose of this scene like at all, the entirety of it.

C: Yeah. It existed, and it happened. Dean unties Meg, and they head out. There's a brief scene where Crowley is about to torture Brigitta, the djinn from earlier in the season, and we're supposed to feel bad for her, and I don't know why we're supposed to feel bad for her but not any of the other monsters like. Didn't she kill Dean's best friend who he just let go? His neighbor? Is it- she's a woman, and they need Crowley to look bad? Why this?

G: I mean, I also don't know. And it's also just so weird because Crowley has been, you know, up against alphas and stuff, and that's all we've been up against this whole time. [C: Right.] And then suddenly, the pivotal moment is him going, "Oh, so how about you tell me what your boss is up to?" [laughs] Like, what? What is this about?

C: I don't know. And he's also being menacing in like a sexual harassment-y way just in keeping with the themes and motifs of the episode, and also just I guess how he is as a character as well. But yeah, whatever. Somehow, this is a scene that exists. And then, while he's trying to menace her, a fire alarm goes off.

G: And so he heads out. It's, you know, Dean sounding the alarm. Meg tries to starts torturing him. Sam asks for what he wants. And this is the part where Sam's like, "I need my soul back," and Meg is like, "Oh! You lost it! What a cool situation!" And Crowley first starts going, "No." but then he goes, after some more pain, that he can't because he just can't do it. And he says, "I was lucky to get this much of you out." I love a cover-up. [C laughs] He says, "Michael-" they always point out that like it's both Lucifer and Michael, and at some point, somebody says that Sam is their only plaything in there. And I'm like, Adam is also literally there. [C laughs] [C: He is.] But okay. Crowley says, "And also, I don't know why you want it back. It's going to, you know, leave you a drooling mess" is what he says. Meg goes like, "Yeah, he's probably right." [both laugh] But Sam has given up, and Dean insists, but Sam has given up. And so now it's Meg's turn, and she wants to kill Crowley, so she heads into the Devil's Trap and then tries to stab Crowley, but then Crowley flicks her against a wall or something.

C: No, I think he just flips her.

G: And then he breaks the Devil's Trap with the knife by flicking it up against it. Very fun. And then Sam and Dean are now against the wall, and then this is all happening, he's trying to give a speech, but then Cas appears by the door, [C laughing] looing all heroic! And he's carrying a little bag, a little sack, even. And he's like, "Leave them alone." [C laughs] He's really putting on the drama, the drama of it all.

C: Obsessed with this guy.

G: And Crowley goes like, "Haven't seen you all season," which is very fun. Yeah, Cas says, like, "This is what I'm gonna do to you if you don't put the knife down." He lifts up a skull, and Crowley's like, "Oh, it's not possible that you have my bones." Cas is like, "No, you should have hidden them better."

C: Don't we literally know where they are? [laughs] Didn't we just go to where they were?

G: No, Crowley got them, put them in a bag, and then hid them.

C: Okay, wait. So when Sam and Dean were- Like, after "Weekend at Bobby's," he took the bones out?

G: That episode ends with Crowley taking the bones. [C: Oh, okay.] Anyway, there is this very banger scene where Cas goes like, "So can you restore Sam's soul or not?" And Crowley goes, "No, I can't." And Cas, with no hesitation, incinerates quote-unquote "Crowley's bones."

C: [laughs] He's so funny.

G: Yeah. And Meg also disappears instantly. And this is when Dean goes, "Oh, she's smart! Well, I would have given you an hour with her before I killed her." And Cas is like, "Why? Why would I want that?"

C: Yeah. Well, first, extremely gross sentence from Dean. Secondly, love Castiel sexuality studies.

C: They're outside of the prison, and Dean's like, "Cas, you're so cool! Thank you! And if there's anything we can do to help you, now that you helped me, I actually care about you for a little while until I'm mad at you again for not helping me!" [G: Yeah.] And Cas says, "There's nothing you can do to help me. I wish circumstances were different. Much of the time, I'd rather be here." Heaven must suck! [laughs] [G: Literally.] It must be so bad. I don't know. He's being very sad and gay in that line, though. It's sweet.

G: He has a very sad, forlorn face. He looks up longingly. It's a whole thing.

C: Yeah. And Dean's just like, "Cas, no, it's okay. I get it! You're going through soo much, and you're soo brave and soo strong. [G laughs] And we're your breasties!" [both laugh]

G: No, literally.

C: He says all of that, exactly like that, and Cas tells Sam that "We'll find another way." Incredibly funny. [G: Yeah.] Yeah. And then Sam just says, "I hate you! I hate you! I hate you! I don't care! If you actually wanted to help, you would go back and kill every single monster in Crowley's prison." And Cas goes, "Okay." And then he does?

G: And then he disappears!

C: Yeah. He disappears to go there, to do it, I assume.

G: Yeah, no, I think what I understand here is he was like, "I'm gonna help you, Sam." And Sam's like, "You know how you can help? This way." And he's like, "Okay, nevermind." And then he leaves. And that's important as well.

C: Oh! I-

G: No, I'm just joking. Obviously, he went there and slayed the monsters.

C: Okay, yeah. Sorry to all of those people in that prison. Did he even, though? Like, did he go over, Crowley was there, and he was like, "Hi, good job on the community theater, Cas!" And Cas goes, "Oh my god, thanks! You really think I did a good job?"

G: No, definitely, that happened.

C: "Sam told me to kill all these monsters that you're torturing," and Crowley's like, "Well, can you not?" And Cas is like, "Yeah! Of course I wouldn't do that to you!" And then he left?

G: Yeah, exactly. That's exactly what happened.

C: Well, good for them. And Dean's like, "Hey, whatever, you know, Sam? Buck up. We'll get your soul!" And Sam says, "No, I don't want it! Everyone says it's gonna kill me, so I don't want it!" And Dean's very, very upset, and he goes, "You don't even know what you're saying." And Sam goes, "No, I'm saying something you don't like." Slay! He's like, "You care. A lot. But I think I'm better off without it, maybe." [G: Literally.] And Dean goes, "You don't know how wrong you are!" And then Sam starts walking away, and Dean yells after him.

G: It is hilarious to me that this does end with a walk away. [C: Yeah.] And the shot is hilarious, too. It's like Sam walking away, and then half of the frame is like, Dean behind him going, "Sam!" [both laugh] It's kind of important.

C: Pretty important. Yeah. Well, that was the episode. What do we think?

G: Don't like it! Boring, corny, tired, played out, etc.

C: Yeah, if you say so. I think it had its strengths. It had its weaknesses. I had fun for a lot of it.

G: Best Line/Worst Line. [C: Ooh.] I forgot we did this

C: That we do Best Line/Worst Line in general? I mean, the "Will you, boy?" scene is iconic. I don't know if it's my best line, but it is iconic.

G: I would say my best line is- I don't know, actually. I have no idea. I suppose I really did like that, "Will you, boy? How?" scene, but Sam's lines. I like that he has a- that "I don't give a fuck that you're an angel" vibe that he has going is so fun. So I suppose I choose the line- Wait, I'm gonna look it up. "I'm sorry. Do you think we're here to talk this out?" [both laugh] Love that! [C: Love it.] I love that. He was like, "I came here for a purpose. You and I are not gonna discuss it. You're just gonna do it." And that's what makes them good in bed.

C: So true. I think I also like when Sam goes, "It's what I would have done." about Crowley hunting down Lucifer loyalists.

G: What's your worst line? What is a Samuel line that I can assign worst line? [C laughs] I think, honestly, the Samuel line where he goes, "You know how to live without her. I don't." is crazy. I'm gonna choose that as my worst line.

C: Yeah, I think Samuel's whole "You sold out Mary's soul for Sam's" thing was also a silly, stupid thing. Oh, we didn't even mention that when Meg was gonna kill Crowley, she said, "This is for Lucifer, you pompous little-" and then Crowley beats her up. [G: Aw, yeah.] Whatever. It's not that important. It's important to me!

Alright, spread those sheets. I think misogyny exists within the world of the boobstrap table.

G: Yes, it does.

C: Why was it happening? What was it for?

G: I would say, actually, the misogyny, I would place it high because of the fundamental characterization of Meg. [C: Mm-hm.] Also- you know what? This is not about the misogyny, racism, homophobia, but like-

C: Okay, is it about the heterosexual or the nonbinary?

G: I mean, yeah, it is, definitely. But it's just, I do think there is also so much incompetence in the writing of Samuel. It's such an incompetent way to have this character be. When he whipped out Mary, the Mary photo, I was kind of like, "Wow! What an absurd thing to do," but also, as you said you could see it from a mile away. Because what else does this character have? Literally nothing. [C: Yeah.] Nothing. And it's just, you know, it's like, I'm like, "Oh, yeah, they also didn't write him well," so we can add that to nothing [C: So true.] 'cause it's not misogynistic, racist, or homophobic.

C: Yeah. So when you say high, are you going like, 3 [G: Yes.] or higher? 3. 3 sounds right to me. Racism, we did have a few Black demons in this episode, I don't know if- was there? I feel like they're- yeah. I don't know. The one who calls them a little bitch at the beginning is Black, but I don't if that really counts inherently as anything.

G: I don't personally think so.

C: Yeah, I don't personally think so. Was there anything else? Not that I recall.

G: Not really, not particularly.

C: Yeah.

G: Homophobia. Dude, you can't watch porn in a room [both] full of dudes. I don't think that's homophobic. I think that's heterophobic. [C laughs]

C: Is it?

G: [laughs] Yeah! [C: So true.] The only reason why you would not watch porn with your straight friends is because of heterophobia.

C: Yeah, okay, I don't know, something's going on with Cas sexuality studies this episode.

G: Something is going on, but I don't think it's homophobia.

C: Yeah, I think we're supposed to laugh at him being clueless about how men are supposed to be. [G: Mm.] But yeah, I don't know. Let's just zero it, I suppose.

G: Yeah.

C: And when the pizza man montage happens, we'll give that episode negative ten homophobia.

G: No, that was fighting for Grey rights. [C: Yeah.] And I did say "gay" like "Grey."

C: Yeah. It was. I am that Db. When you say "I am that Db," is that Dean Binchester? Decibels? What's the Db? Actually, also, what does IMDb stand for?

G: International movie database.

C: That is probably true.

G: No, let's look it up.

C: It's internet movie database. You almost got it.

G: Yeah. 6.10 is me. I'm even. So this is, I would assume, a beloved episode in the stats thing because it's revealing stuff and doing things, and Meg is here, which is a recurring character, and Crowley and Cas are both here, and also, we have cemented the Samuel falling out, so the next time we see him, we're gonna kill him, which is important. [C laughs]

C: I don't think Dean actually does that, does he?

G: No, I don't think so. [both laugh] But we have established that we this is not a guy that we have have to, you know, put in any effort into liking. I would give this an 8.4.

C: Okay. You did all the talk about how it's rated highly, and then you only gave it 0.1 above "Clap Your Hands If You Believe"?

G: Yeah, I don't believe that it's that highly rated. Maybe it is. It's your chance, Crystal. You're lagging behind.

C: Ah! Whatever. 8.3. I hate my life. No, wait! No, whatever. Let's just do it. Okay.

G: You're not lagging behind, are you?

C: Yes, I am.

G: Oh, you are! By not that much. That's impressive.

C: What. What's the answer? I guessed 8.3, and I'm wrong, and I'm stupid.

G: Yeah! It's 8.5! [C groans] All of the photos are of Meg, and that's kind of important. [laughs]

C: Yeah, I understand this.

G: This one says, "Cas is at the top of his comedic game." Is he?

C: But is he?

G: This one says it helps focus the season because Season 6 is so " wildly uneven" and it's a "structural mess." And so this one is like, a very focused episode. This is so scary! I was like, "Oh my god! Did they know?" Because "One of the outstanding episodes of Season 6. Angels and demons working together, oh my!" And I was like, "Oh my god, they're like- this is like-"

C: They were talking about Meg.

G: Yeah, "Did we not watch like a Crowley and Cas scene at the end that was so important, and we missed it completely?" But no, it's about Meg.

Well, that’s it for this episode of Busty Asian Beauties. Next week, we will be discussing Season 6, Episode 11: "Appointment in Samarra." Leave us a rating or a review wherever you get your podcasts.

C: Someone in the reviews is asking why soulless Sam wouldn't be going after demon blood to drink it.

G: That's an interesting question. I suppose there is an aspect of the dependence that is emotional.

C: Yeah, maybe. Or like, now that he's Mr. Logic And Reason, he feels that it's actually not in his best interest?

G: Yeah. [C: Yeah.] I mean, the thing is, he does get powers from it, for real. [C: Yeah, yeah.] Or is that true?

C: It's true. He did get powers for real from the demon blood, yeah.

G: Yeah. But also now, he doesn't-

C: Except for that "You never needed the feather to fly, Dumbo" line, which I don't understand.

G: Yeah, but in Season 5, he still had to drink it, so who knows?

C: Yeah. And he used it to torture Alastair, right? And then kill him? So like, if they're- yeah, yeah. I don't know. Yeah, whatever the objections to drinking demon blood are are not within the soul. Or they are within the soul, but then there's other ones- the soul has reasons for and against, and without the soul, Sam has neither. [G: Yeah.] Yeah, okay. Well, follow us on social media! We are on Tumblr at bustyasianbeautiespod.tumblr.com. Our official tag is #BABPod, B-A-B-POD. Thanks to everyone who's donated to our Ko-Fi at ko-fi.com/bustyasianbeautiespod, which is where our outtakes live, and check out our merch at babpod.redbubble.com.

G: You can email us any feedback, comments, or inquiries at [email protected]. See you guys next time! [both] Bye!

[guitar music]

#transcript

0 notes

bustyasianbeautiespod · 2 months ago

Text

Good in Bed - s6 Sam/Castiel

for the “sam and cas were fuckbuddies during season 6” truthers out there (youtube)

#mentioned #as mentioned in ep 114!

376 notes · View notes

bustyasianbeautiespod · 2 months ago

Text

Episode 114: Deus Ex Machina That Doesn't Work

Today, Crystal & Grey discuss Supernatural 6.10 - Caged Heat. We talk about: the beginnings of the Pizza Man cold open, commending a show for having the bravery to kinda suck, and George Bailey has so many problems he is thinking about ending it all - and it's Christmas!

Ko-fi

Redbubble

Transcript

#episode #babpod #spn #supernatural #season 6 #supernatural podcast

4 notes · View notes

bustyasianbeautiespod · 3 months ago

Text

Episode 113 Transcript: Queerbaiting is Only an Offshoot of Straightbaiting

[intro guitar music]

G: Hello, it's Grey.

C: Hello, it's Crystal.

G: And this is Busty Asian Beauties, a Supernatural commentary podcast where I, someone who has seen this show many times...

C: And I, someone who only knows the show through social media, discuss every single episode of Supernatural from start to finish. Also, we are both Asian.

G: Both Asian! For today's episode, we are watching Season 6, Episode 9: "Clap Your Hands If You Believe," famously written by Ben Edlund [C: God.], directed by John Showalter. [C: Well.] Did we have women this episode that Ben Edlund was weird about? [C: Um...] I have completely forgotten this episode. Full disclosure, [both] we watched it a week ago. Yeah. And it was fine. Was it fine?

C: Patchouli was there. That was a woman.

G: Who is? Oh yeah.

C: The hippie girl whose name I don't know.

G: Yeah. She didn't smell that bad, as Sam Winchester said.

C: There were gay people who were never on screen that Ben Edlund was weird about. I think that was the main thing this episode.

G: Yeah, it was the homophobia, the ableism, "we don't even know what kind of hate crime this is."

C: Yeah. Yeah. [laughs]

G: He was trying to be like, "Haha! Wouldn't it be so funny if it was a hate crime?"

C: Yeah. "Wouldn't it be so funny if Dean Winchester was homophobic and ableist?" And it's like, he is homophobic and ableist! [G laughs] What are you talking about?

G: Well, and it's not funnay! [C laughs] This episode was pretty fun, though, sometimes.

C: Sometimes.

G: Sometimes it was just normal. To bad! Normal to bad.

C: Yeah, yeah. It's true.

G: But okay. This is a famous episode. Why is it famous?

C: 'Cause of the homophobia.

G: Is that it? Are you sure? I'm asking because-

C: Because soulless Sam is iconic in it.

G: That's true. That is probably the reason why. Soulless Sam. And I'm sure there's a lot of crossover between X-Files and Supernatural fans, and so the intro to this episode must have been a fun thing! You know, it's a fun thing. It's memorable. Also, they put Misha Collins in there, and Castiel is literally not here. [C: Not in this episode.] Unbelievable. Why would they lie to us like this?

C: They were just calling him gay. That's the point of putting him in the credits. [laughs]

G: Sure. Why not? [C: Why not?] I mean, I do think it's fun that they have- Does Sam believe in aliens? Sam is the alien believer, I would say.

C: Yeah, well, we should check "Tall Tales."

G: Or did they both not believe in aliens? Well, Sam believed in aliens for a while, and Dean also did, I suppose, this episode. Honestly, I loved the bit about this episode where the reason why Dean was experiencing all those horrors was because he was the [both] first-born son. Like, loved it. Loved it.

C: Sam and Dean both express that they don't think aliens are real in "Tall Tales."

G: That's true. So Cas is the alien. [laughs] That is the point of the introduction. [C: Yeah.] We're like, "We have two guys who don't believe in aliens and some guy who's an alien!" And that's so important. [C: Good for him.] It is so wonderful that Cas is an alien. Isn't that so nice? [C: Yeah.] Or does he not count?

C: I mean, is Heaven another planet? It's not.

G: I think it's extraterrestrial. It's out of this world.

C: It's only for people who die on Earth, though.

G: Yeah, but like, angels don't necessarily have to have been on Earth. [C: Right.] So therefore they are extraterrestrial. If people went to Mars, would you be like, “Oh, and this creature from Mars is not an alien anymore because people from Earth are in Mars”? You know.

C: But Heaven was created specifically for dead people, wasn't it?

G: How do you know that? How do you know that? We don't know that.

C: Is it not just an extension of Earth?

G: Is it really?

C: I sort of view it that way.

G: I don't think that's true. Or is it? A wonderful question. What did you know about this episode before going in?

C: Dean yells “fight the fairies!” and gets taken in by a cop for homophobia. He also gets abducted by aliens, but they are fairies.

G: What's crazy is I thought that was because of homophobia because I know of the hashtag. [C: Yeah.] I never really remembered that-

C: That he beat a guy up first.

G: - he beat a guy up for it, and that is- and the guy’s a little person, and that's why the cop goes like, “I don't even know what kind of hate crime this is.” That part of it was erased in my mind. Unbelievable. Because of that damn hashtag [laughs] that trended because it was homophobic.

C: Sam talks to a woman whose name we don't get but who Dean calls Patchouli and says that his brother got kidnapped once, but he's over it, and she goes, “Did it happen when you were a child?” And he says, “No, like 30 minutes ago,” and then he sleeps with her, and Dean says, “What the hell? While I was kidnapped?” and Sam goes, “Well, I did all I could to try to get you back. What did you want me to do? Just sit in the dark and feel bad?” And Dean goes, “Yeah!” That's what I knew about this episode.

G: Yeah. Well, what I knew about this episode was that, you know, I didn't know what the quote-unquote “monster” was. I truly didn't.

C: What? Why do you think Dean was saying that?

G: I mean, I don't know. Okay, here's what I thought was gonna happen. It was gonna be aliens, but it's not aliens. It was gonna be fairies, but it's not fairies. And then it's something else. That's what I thought. [C: Okay.] But I thought it was also a red herring, the fairies. But they were not red herrings. They were real as hell. I thought it was a completely other episode, the counting sugar, because that one, I remember vividly, Sam ripping open the sugar packet and the monster of the week bending down to get to count it.

C: Sam going, “Why didn't I just do this in the first place?” [laughs]

G: And he was so real. Anyway, so that's what my shoddy memory did for me this episode. And now let's begin.

G: So for the “Then” sequence, actually, I have something to point out, which is that they butcher the speech Sam gives at the end of last episode, I feel, a little bit. Because for the “Then” sequence, they make it seem like he's just saying, “I don't care about you. I don't care about Lisa and Ben.” Like, [laughs] they remove the comedic aspects of it, and so the blow is that much more stronger. And then also, they cut it in a way where Sam isn't really explaining himself. It's important to me and to the Supernatural universe that that statement ends with like, “That's why I want to get my soul back,” you know? But of course, it's cut for purposes to make Sam seem ominous and etc etc. How dare they? How dare they do this to my beloved Sam Winchester? But it's fine. He's hilarious this episode.

G: He's really funny this episode. But again, in a way that seems over the top. [G: Yes!] Ben Edlund just went really hard in the "he's completely mean and doesn't think about anything." Like, he was able to feign social skills in the past, and there's no reason for him to have stopped now for this case.

G: Yeah. And with Dean specifically, I think the argument that they were trying to make was he was being fake with Dean, and now he's being for real, but they're making it seem like he doesn't understand when it's very clear from past episodes that he does understand, or a lot of the times, he gets why he shouldn't say that, he gets why he should do this instead. But the way he would talk to Dean was like, “No, Dean. Explain to me why," etc etc etc. And it's like, I don't think that he would have done that. [C: Yeah.] I do feel they exaggerate it to make it funny. [C: Mm-hm.] Unfortunately, it is hilarious. [laughs]

C: It's pretty funny.

G: Yeah,. So we start the episode in a lover’s lane situation, but instead of smooching in the car, they're literally on the ground. They're in a cornfield, right? [C: Yeah.] And then there's like some sound, some ominous shadows passing by, and the guy is like, “Well, what the fuck is this?” So he gets up, he heads into the hedge. There's like a giant, giant fucking light, a la how we think alien abductions are supposed to look like. And he gets abducted. And we get the splash screen, which is not simply a splash screen but an X-Files credits roll. That's very fun. [C: It is fun.] I do wonder why Supernatural does not have that. It just has a splash screen. What was the choice that was made in the- is it the writers room? Is it the production team? that was like, “We're not going to do a credits roll at the beginning.”

C: I think it's just more impactful for horror for there to be sort of a jumpscare splash screen, and then go back. [G: That's probably true.] Don't give people time to calm down between the cold open and the rest.

G: Yeah, I suppose so.

C: For mysteries, you want it to be long for people to go, “Hmm! I wonder what's happening.”

G: Yeah, that's true, because what I was thinking about was House M.D. has a pretty long intro.

C: Yeah, but they never, ever change, [laughs] even though those people are barely characters in later seasons.

G: They change- well, they change the music for it at some point.

C: Yeah, but it's still like, Cameron, Chase, Foreman. Like, only Foreman's still here.

G: Is that true? I think they change it. They don't?

C: I don't know. I'm sure there's different credits versions in different platforms.

G: My friend, who has been watching House M.D., is now at the part where Taub is a friend who is your enemy, [laughs] and that's so important! I think everyone should have a post-antagonistic relationship with Dr. Taub.

C: Yeah, I mean, he deeply sucks, but it was really funny of him to have two babies at the same time.

G: Yeah. [laughs] Literally.

C: Not as twins, because he was cheating on his wife with a nurse?

G: I don't even remember.

C: It was his ex-wife, but he was still sleeping with her?

G: And that's important. Divorce is the most romantic thing in the world.

C: It is. The X-Files credits say “Created by Eric Kripke,” and there's no Sera Gamble shout-out at all! which feels mean.

G: Yeah, I mean, it was created by Eric Kripke.

C: It was created by Eric Kripke.

G: Maybe they were just following the format of X-Files. I've not seen a single-

C: I suppose, like, they never had a showrunner.

G: Yeah, I've never seen a single X-Files episode.

C: Yeah, me neither. All I know about it is- what? There's an episode where there's a shapeshifter who like, makes out with Mulder or something, and then they never talk about it again, that he was down for it?

G: No.

C: I love queerbait applied to straight people.

G: No, I love straightbait. That's the only thing I know about X-Files, is that they were straightbaiting to Hell and back, and that's the most important thing. The second-most romantic thing after divorce [C laughs] is straightbaiting.

C: Yeah. Where's queerbaiting?

G: I think queerbaiting is at a 2.5, you know? [C: Okay.] Queerbaiting is only an offshoot of straightbaiting in my mind.

C: Yeah, okay. [both laugh] So true!

Yeah, we have a bunch of interviews from people talking about the alien abduction, and apparently, there's been multiple in this town. And there's a lot of believers here, and a sheriff who's like, "It's literally not."

G: The way it's filmed is like a documentary style, [C: Yes.] and then at the end of it, we realize that they're talking to Sam and Dean. But it is quite disconcerting to watch it thinking that like, "Oh, it's the beginning of a documentary," because it's people being like, “There are evidences.” And then the girlfriend from the cornfield just being like, "They took him!" Like, she's in distress. And then it's interspersed with all these people being like, "Woo, aliens." And then this girl going, "They took my boyfriend!" And it's like, you know, it's a bit- that's the comedy of the scene. [C: Yeah.] And then it ends, and they're interviewing these people.

C: So Marion says, “Of course it's not UFOs. It's fairies.” We'll see her later. And yeah, and Sam immediately chews into her, saying, "If you want to add glitter to that glue you're sniffing, that's fine, but don't dump your wackadoo all over us. We'd rather not step in it." [G laughs]

G: Which is crazy because like, for Sam and Dean, it is more likely to be fairies. [C: Yeah.] Like, it is a giant leap for it to be aliens.

C: It's because she's a woman, and fairies are considered girly. I think that's literally it.

G: No, it's crazy!

C: Like, remember the scene where they're in her parlor, and they're like, "Oh my god! It's disgusting that we're drinking from small teacups." Like, get over yourselves!

G: I do think this is culturally insensitive, and I mean that solemnly. [C laughs] It is culturally insensitive to talk about fairies this way! It is!

C: Yeah. To what? Ireland?

G: I mean, yeah.

C: Yeah, with the leprechaun.

G: But also, there are many places in the world who have similar concepts of like the girly, whatever. I can't believe that it's classified as girly. I don't know. People are fucking corny as hell. Why? Because they're small? Is it like a Thumbelina situation? [laughs] Why is it considered girly?

C: I don't know. They're small, associated with fairy tales, and men don't know about Cinderella, remember?

G: Oh, yeah. If I say "Thumbelina" to Dean, Sam would go, "Oh, I know her. She's my friend." [C laughs] And Dean would say, "You're gay as hell."

C: I mean, currently, Sam is saying, "You're gay as hell."

G: You know what's so frustrating? I was gonna reserve this for later, because I have a big thing about it, but it is so disconcerting to me that this entire episode, Sam is portrayed as not giving a fuck, having no sensitivity whatsoever, but when it's time to make a gay joke, he's so uncomfortable. Like, they portray him as like so uncomfortable to make it funny. And it's like, "I thought he didn't give a fuck. Why is he now so uncomfortable?"

C: I guess Sam was straight, but then, without his soul, he's gay.

G: No, I think what they were doing was that Sam without his soul- They believe that [laughs] homophobia transcends soullessness. [C laughs] It transcends soullessness. So like, you can be soulless. You're still homophobic. [laughs]

C: So true! He also says, "The only thing you're missing is a couple dozen cats, sister." I don't think he would talk like this. [laughs]

G: Have you considered that it's actually gay to speak like this, Sam Winchester? Maybe he is gay.

C: Okay, so now we're back to the "Sam is gay without his soul."

G: Yeah, maybe he is gay without his soul. We're gonna go back and forth on this.

C: Alright, sounds good. Dean pulls him away, and Sam's like, "I don't understand what I did wrong there!" And Dean's like, "You're so stupid. But I guess because you're soulless, this is correct that you wouldn't know why this is a wrong thing to say." Dean's like, "You need to be empathetic because old Sam would have. And you have to care!" And Sam's like, "What do you mean? And Dean, about what?" And Dean goes, "About everything, man! About being human, at least."

G: There's also a part where Sam goes like, "Old Sam had a soul. Or was a soul. I don't know," which is very fun.

C: Yeah, that was fun. I did like that.

G: Supernatural never really answers that, I don't think. [laughs] Well, they do. They answer it with, "You have a soul. You're not a soul," which is like, fascinating! So when you die and your soul goes to Heaven or Hell, what happens to you?

C: I don't know.

G: Your body is also there? But your body's on Earth decomposing. I don't know. We don't know.

C: Yeah. Sam goes like, "Look, Dean. You obviously care, a lot, and that's great. But I can't care about what I can't care about. Like, do you want me to fake it?" And Dean goes, "Yes."

G: Love it.

C: Yeah, this is an interesting dynamic, and I like it, but I don't have anything else to say about it.

G: I mean, it is- because we have been going with like parallels, etc. Or like, not parallels. Allegories. We have been doing an allegorical reading of Sam's soullessness. I think it does come at this point where it's not really allegorical anymore. [C: Mm.] I suppose it's it could be allegorical to like, psychopathy.

C: Yeah, I was thinking that.

G: I don't know. I don't really have much to say too other than, I don't know. Fake it till you make it. So true, I guess. But the thing is, Sam's never gonna make it unless he gets his soul back, so what is the game plan? And they haven't really worked on getting the soul back, I suppose.

C: I mean, last episode it was, yeah. Do something for Crowley and hope you can get the soul back.

G: It is about- this episode airs in November 19. So I think it's about to be the break very soon, and I do wonder when they do the break. What happens?

C: "Caged Heat" is a pretty big episode, right?

G: What?

C: "Caged Heat," 6.10?

G: Yeah, that's the one with Cas [both] and Meg. Yeah. So like, maybe that. Maybe that.

C: Yeah. Crowley's there, too, so I'm assuming a big soul development happens, so that's a good time for a break. Dean does come across as fantasy ableist- and real ableist! in this episode. Dean tells him to fake it because "If you want to be a real boy, you've got to act the part." But like, [laughs] he's not gonna be a real boy until you get his soul back.

G: Yeah. Well, I do think he mentions earlier that "You should care because Sam with the soul would have." And I think an approach to this would be, "When you get your soul back, you're gonna feel real bad about how you've been acting."

C: Maybe so, yeah.

G: And like, I think that is an approach, but Supernatural never really leans into that, which is what I think the most reasonable thing to be saying to Sam is now. Because he talks a big game about wanting to get his soul back, and then, "There are feelings during that time that were like harder but also more rewarding." And it's like, well, if, you know, when you get your soul back, you'd want to feel a little bit good about it.

C: Yeah. But yeah, Sam says that he was faking it. He was picking every single word when they were together, and it was exhausting. Which I could believe, except again, we've seen Sam doing investigations alone during episodes where he's working a case with Dean, and he was fine. [laughs] He was not particularly insensitive. And that was just so the audience didn't know that something was up or only knew a little bit that something was up. But yeah, it just doesn't work because of past events that we have seen. Dean says that he'll just be Sam's conscience the whole time, his Jiminy Cricket, because Sam's a freaking puppet. So they go to interview Mr. Brennan, who is the father of Patrick, who got abducted. And he says that Patrick was taken after Sam says he disappeared, and he keeps going, "I don't want to talk to you because you can't help me because Patrick's nevah, evah coming back." [G: Nevah evah.] And they think that it's suspicious that he feels so sure about this, but he says, "No, it's because after 72 hours the odds of finding a missing person is zero, and it's been weeks." And after Sam and Dean leave, we see Mr. Brennan talk to somebody we can't see, going, "Is that alright?" Like, "Did what I say- Was that fine? Was it not too much information?" And outside, Dean thinks that Mr. Brennan is hiding something.

G: I honestly- because, as you remember, I didn't know it was gonna be the fairies for real. [C: Uh-huh?] I thought the watch was possessed. [laughs] Like, I thought he put his son in the watch. [C: Aw, that would be fun!] I was like, "Very fun. Very fun! Yeah!" Yeah, and also, to be clear, this guy makes watches, and there's a little workshop that he lives in or stays in a lot.

C: So Sam and Dean split up. Dean's gonna check out the cornfield, and Sam will stay back and watch Mr. Brennan. And Dean goes, "But do not engage with, maim, or in any way kill Brennan. Don't make any judgment calls. If anything happens, call me." And Sam's like, "Okay, fine. But I was fine alone for a whole year." [G: Yeah.] But yeah, they split up.

G: It is hilarious that he was like, "Don't kill anyone." [laughs] Love that.

Dean goes to the crop circles, as you said. Stuff starts happening. He's calling Sam, and they're talking about the case. Sam is like, watching the guy in a bar, and the guy's just drinking. But then suddenly Dean gets fucking UFOed. And there's just a fucking UFO, and he's being chased, and he's running, and like, Sam is a little bit interested, but like, his general disposition is like, "Okay." He's like, "Oh, you see something, Dean?" And Dean is like, "Yes! There's a UFO!" And Sam just goes, "Stop yelling." [both laughing] Yeah, he's like, "Oh, you're choppy. I'm so sorry. I can't hear you."

C: He doesn't say "I'm so sorry." [laughs]

G: No, he doesn't say. He just says, "You're choppy." He says, "You're breaking up. I can't catch that." Literally DGAF. And Dean says, "Close encounter," which, is this a proper term?Or, you know what I mean.

C: I don't know.

G: Is it the term?

C: Yeah, would people immediately know that that was about aliens?

G: Because Sam goes like, "What kind? First or second?"

C: Apparently it is. In ufology, a close encounter is an event in which a person witnesses a UFO at relatively close range. [G: Ah.] Level one is lights in the night sky. Second is, in the daytime, you see disks. Third, there's like UFO reports with radar confirmation. Fourth is you see one for real less than 500 feet away, with detail. Fifth is when there's a physical effect like a car malfunctioning. And six is when you actually see an alien or whatever.

G: So Sam is using a wrong scale.

C: Yeah, he is.

G: When Dean says that "They're after me," Sam says, "Third kind already." And then he goes, “You better run. I think the fourth kind is a butt thing.” And also, I suppose we should mention here that this episode has a lot of [C: Yeah.] rape jokes. [C: Yeah.] And specifically of this kind. "You're gonna get fucked in the ass" rape jokes.

C: Well, probed in the ass, but yeah.

G: Yeah, but that's the implication. It goes on until the fairies, [laughs] which is crazy. They were like, "Well, we gotta continue it at some point."

C: Yeah, they stopped when they were like, "Well, I guess it's actually gay, so now we can't."

G: Yeah, the fairies are real, so now it's gay for real. I don't know. It's just-

C: Yeah, it's unpleasant. It's yeah- I don't- yeah. And I feel like those were mostly Dean [G: Yeah, towards Dean.] doing those jokes in "Tall Tales," but now, yeah, Sam is doing them towards Dean. And yeah, they do a different form of rape joke when it's fairies. [G: Yeah.] Which is the "service Oberon, King of the Fairies" thing.

G: And it is disconcerting because we'll talk about it later, but there is this scene where Dean comes back and he talks about it, and he's obviously in distress. And Sam is incredibly blunt about it, and you're supposed to be like, "That's funny." When Sam says, "Oh, they took you to the probing table," and Dean goes, "Don't say it!" they're like, "Don't call it that" or something. And it's like, well, it's not fun to watch. [laughs] [C: Yeah.] Dean goes, "Have some empathy, Sam." But then the phone dies, and Sam tries. He's like, "Are you there? Are you there?" And then he's like, "Not there." So he shrugs his shoulders and then eyes up a waitress that's passing by. You know what's so fascinating is soulless Sam is like- Okay. Soulled Sam is attracted to women, but he never is like, hitting them up in this way. [C: Right.] He's never like, eyeing up women. [C: Yeah.] It's just fascinating that now that's like a "when he had a soul, he didn't eye up women." [both laugh] Like, what- [laughing] what conclusion are we supposed to make here?

C: I guess just, he wanted to, but he knew not to, out of respect, and now he doesn't have that anymore?

G: He has no respect for women. Well, that's crazy.

C: Yeah. Yeah. The base male body wants to eye up women, but if you have a soul, sometimes, you know that that's not on. [G laughs] It's strange.

G: If I'm gonna think about it, I do find it fascinating the things that Ben Edlund in this episode [C: Yeah.] has defined as part of the human experience that is not- that if you didn't have a filter, this is just what it's like.

C: Yeah. Being homophobic, [G: Being homophobic.] disrespecting women-

G: And being misogynistic. And like, I do think it is representative of a worldview.

C: Yeah, and of himself, too. [laughs]

G: Yeah, [laughs] I mean, I was trying to avoid saying that, but yeah. [both laugh] It's representative of a worldview... that he has! [laughs]

C: That he has, and acts upon, or wishes he could act upon.

G: Yeah, it's just a- it's a weird thing to do, personally, I think. And there's something I don't- I think it's weird because I don't agree with it, so.

C: Yeah. I mean, Sam's doing a lot of things that Dean does also, though.

G: Yeah, they kind of- Dean Winchester is an interesting example of like- he is representative of an uninhibited man, but he's so inhibited. [C: Yeah.] You as an audience, you're supposed- I think if you're trying to do the- what do you call it when you're watching, and then there's a term, right? You're watching, and the guy's like, being so cool, and then you're watching because he's so cool. I completely forgot the term.

C: Huh? I don't know.

G: There is! You know it. We've used it so many times. I'm just blanking now.

C: Power fantasy?

G: No, there's like a voyeur- you're riding the coattails. [laughs] I can't believe I can remember that term but not whatever the fuck this is. Well, that is what Dean is. You're- something that ends with -ly. Like "egregiously watching," but egregious is not the term. You're-

C: Vicariously.

G: Vicariously watching. [laughs] You're egregiously, vicariously watching. And if you're supposed to be vicariously watching Dean, you're supposed to think that he's so cool and so uninhibited. "Look at him! He's divorced from social norms and like, expectations, and he can just be cool, and hunt monsters, and be violent, and have sex with women." But like, you look at his character, and he's the most repressed man alive.

C: In some ways, yeah.

G: What's that about? Yeah. And like, I don't know. This is a thing that- now that we're seeing Sam being quote-unquote "uninhibited"-

C: Is Dean really that repressed?

G: I think so! Very much so!

C: Like, I don't know. I'm like, I'm sure it's true because I've said it before too, but I just don't remember when he was.

G: Maybe repressed is not the term, but he is definitely always putting on a show of some kind, which is the opposite of uninhibited. If you're uninhibited, you're supposed to not think of those consequences or that image of yourself [C: Or not care.] to the world. You're not supposed to be caring about that. But Dean cares so so so so much. [C: Yeah, okay.] And his fantasy is just being cool, you know, without trying. Being effortless in it, in your masculinity. And then you look at him, and he's putting in so much effort. And like, with Sam now, they are trying to portray Sam as the uninhibited man. Now, Sam really is not putting in that much effort to come off as this embodiment of masculinity that's like, "I'm working out with oil on my body, [both laugh] and I'm having sex with women," you know? And I don't know. Supernatural, what is going on? A question of all time.

C: Yeah. One we may never answer.

G: Sam does go to the crop field. He brings Dean's phone, sees it, picks it up. He's like, "Mm, well. He's gone, I guess." So he goes to a UFO night. It's a bunch of mobile homes. Is that what it's called? There must be another term.

C: Trailers?

G: Trailers, yeah. There's there's a bunch of trailers, and they have set up around a circle area where they're talking about UFOs and stuff. So Sam comes in to the guy that they were interviewing earlier. His name is Wayne. We'll see him later again. And he's like, "Okay, well, they're real." He asks for "What do we do? How do we get them?" So Wayne hands him the literature, and Sam scrolls through it or shuffles through it- flips through it? Sam flips through it. And he is like, "Well, whatever the fuck is this? Because there's no way to kill anything that is listed down in here, the only essential thing to know about everything." [C: Yeah.] And also, "I can't believe that after thirty years, all you have is this stupid shit." [laughs] He's really coming down into this guy. And then at some point, the lady that we were talking about earlier comes in.

C: Oh, her name is Sparrow.

G: Was it really?

C: That's what the transcript says. I don't remember her introducing herself, though. [G: Yeah.] It might just be in the credits.

G: Sam has been talking about Dean, about how his brother was abducted, and she goes like, "Oh my god! That's so sad!" And he's like, "No, it's okay. I've had time to process it." And she goes, "Did it happen when you were kids?" [C laughs] And he goes, "No, just thirty minutes ago." They share, you know, a smile. A look, even. After Sam demolishes the guy that he's talking to, we go back to the cornfield. Dean is there. He- not "wakes up." He just shows up there. He's just there again. And he has a gun out, and he's wildly pointing it to places. And then he walks to the motel, and when he gets there, he turns on the light, and Sam's having sex. And he turns around. He goes, "Dean!" And the lady is like, "Oh my god, you're Dean! Sam, they brought your brother back!" [C laughs] Love it. Sparrow is about to head out when she turns around, and she's like, "Oh my god, Dean. I know it's like, you know, family time, etc. But I was just wondering, what happened? What were they like?" And Dean dismisses her and closes the door on her. And Sam's like, "Wow! I can't believe that you're so upset." Well, no, he just says- he is using statement terms. He says, "You're upset." So true. Dean says, "I was abducted." Also maybe true. And "You were banging Patchouli." And Sam goes, "I don't think she smelled that bad." I don't even know what patchouli is. Does it smell bad? Or is it like an herb or something that's associated with hippies?

C: Yeah, I guess it's a species of plant, so probably.

G: It's like an earthy smell. They have terrifying-looking flowers. Look at these. What the fuck is these? Terrifying.

C: They do look like mold.

G: Dean is mad because he was abducted by aliens and Sam DGAF. Dean also conveys that he was just gone for an hour, and half of that time he spent walking to the motel. And Sam's like, "That's not true. You're lying to me because you have been out the entire night. It's 4 AM now." And Sam's like, "Yeah, it usually happens. There's a time slip and everything." Sam hands Dean a drink, and Dean starts talking, and he says, "You know, there's this white light," and he's obviously struggling to get his words out. So Sam pats him in the in the knee and goes, "It's okay." And then nods sagely and goes, "It's a safe room." [laughs] He's so stupid! It is so stupid that they're doing this, but it is very fun. But again, as we've mentioned, [laughs] the context of the situation- The comedy that they were trying to do is that Dean is having a serious moment, and Sam's being incredibly direct about everything, which is what happens here. When Dean is like, "Oh, they were taking me to a table," and Sam goes, "A probing table!" and Dean goes, "No, don't say that out loud." Dean says he started like hacking and firing, etc, and then he was back on Earth. And I do wonder how this translates to now. Now that we know that it's fairies. They just made him see something else?

C: Well, he said that- he didn't see anything that was like, deceptive. He said that they were all like so bright, glowing white lights that he couldn't tell who the figures were, [G: Ah.] and the fairy we see later is a very small, glowing white light until Dean is able to see closer, right?

G: Yeah, but they also had some guy who was a guy.

C: Well, yeah, I guess they were taking human form on the Earth? But that was like, after they were summoned or whatever, right? So wherever they are, they could just be bright lights to the human eye. [G: Ah.] But yeah, I don't know why they wanted him on the table, though. It's not clear what the fairies want with abductions. Abductees?

G: Yeah, anyway, now, they go to a diner. And as they're talking, Dean's like, "Unbelievable. Aliens, real. What else is real? Unbelievable." And this entire time, Sam kind of DGAF, and then a waiter comes in and he gives her like a "How you doing?" [C laughs] And Dean's like, "Wait! Why are you doing that? [both laugh] The reality is collapsing around us, and you're flirting with a waitress." And Sam goes, "Okay, let's finally talk about the fact that I slept with that girl. So I have no soul, and-" Oh, no, he says, "Say you've got a soul, and your brother gets abducted by aliens." And Dean's like, "Well, you try everything to bring him back." But Sam goes, "No, but I did that. But then there were no more leads for the night. So I'm just supposed to suffer and sit there in the dark? There's nothing else that could be done." And Dean's like, "Yes, you're supposed to sit there and suffer in the dark! [C laughs] And you feel the loss," is what he says. And Sam says, "Well, can't I do all that, and also sleep with a hippie chick?" [C laughs] And Dean says, "No," and Sam says, "It'd be in the dark," [C: So good.] which is my best line. That is my best line, as I now say. Loved it. And Dean says, "You can't do that because you would be suffering."

C: Sam's literally right, though. [laughs]

G: I mean, I think Dean is also literally right in that if you had a soul, your soul wouldn't let you.

C: If you'd be suffering, it'd be hard for you to- [G: Yeah.] Yeah. But I think there's no moral high ground to suffering in the dark at night.

G: Yeah. Sam says, "So you're saying that having a soul equals suffering? Oh, so like when you call Lisa, almost, a million times. That's what it's about. You're saying that that's a good thing? Suffering is a good thing?" And Dean says, "I'm saying it's the only game in town." I agree with him, unfortunately. [C: What?] I know you just said that you shouldn't suffer in the dark, but like, it is what it is. You kind of do suffer. You don't have to, and there's no moral high ground to it, but it is what it is.

G: I mean, you don't have to. And also, there are exercises for distress relief.

G: I know, but sometimes, it's like, it feels good to suffer, which is, you know.

C: No, I agree with that. But that doesn't need to be a a universal whatever, yeah.

G: Ah. So what Dean is saying here that you're not agreeing is that it's the only thing to do is to suffer.

C: Yeah.

G: That's probably true.

G: I love to be miserable. Is that true? I don't think that's true.

C: Yeah, when you're miserable, you say things like, "I hate this. I'm miserable."

G: Yeah, and I don't think I am a particularly miserable person as well. Like, that's not my general disposition. I mean, about suffering, they were never wrong, the old masters, etc, you know? I think the thing here is that you're suffering, you have to understand that it does not mean that other people are supposed to be suffering as well, which is, I think, where Dean is going wrong. That's the quote I was referencing. This is about the W.H. Auden poem, oh my god! My first poem from him that I know of. It's called "Musée des Beaux Arts." I don't know how to pronounce that, I'm so sorry, French people. Except I'm not. Who give a fuck about the French? [both laugh] Am I allowed to say that, or is that actually offensive?

C: You're allowed to say whatever.

G: What languages are we allowed to be like, who give a fuck? I feel like if it's a colonizing language, [C: People do feel like making fun of the- yeah.] that's probably fine. Yeah. Well, anyway, that poem is about how, you know, when Icarus fell, people were just walking around, even though there's something marvelous happening, a boy falling out of the sky. And like, with Dean, I think that is where he- I think Dean has this perspective that if he's suffering, Sam has to suffer. So this entire conversation is not really about Sam's suffering, it's about Dean's. And yeah. And I do think the example that Sam gives of "Yeah, but the million times you almost called Lisa" is like a fascinating example, because we have already established with Sam DGAF about that, and that is a suffering that is not supposed to be seen as transcendental to Sam. [C: Right.] So that's fine. It's fine that he doesn't care about that because it's not supposed to be something that he also possesses then afterwards. But worry about Dean is something that he is supposed to possess, and therefore, Dean suffering at that moment is transcendental to Sam supposedly, and so therefore, he should also suffer, which is not something that I believe, personally. So yeah, I suppose we do agree. I just love to say that I love to suffer, even if I don't.

C: [laughs] So true.

G: I am still Catholic after everything. Dean starts seeing a guy. This is the beginning, right? He sees just a guy outside, and it disappears. The guy disappears.

C: Yeah, and he's glaring at Dean really hard, and Sam can't see the guy when Dean points him out.

They go back to the motel, and Dean is calling Sam, who's actually at the library. And he's just been doing UFO research, and not a lot is happening. "Major Tom" by David Bowie starts playing on the radio really loud, and then the lights start flickering, and then a bright ball of light flies into the room, gets really close to Dean, and he sort of squints, and he goes, "Nipples?"

G: I do love the music choice this scene. I like the vibe of the scene. It's very fun.

C: Yeah. The bright light hits Dean, and he yells, "Bitch!" [both laughing] because now that he's seen that it's a naked woman, he knows the correct slur to call her.

G: That it's not a son of a bitch, literally.

C: Yeah. And he traps the fairy in a microwave and puts it on for a bunch of minutes, and he laughs while she gets microwaved to death. [G: Yeah.] So Sam returns, and they're both looking inside the microwave. Sam sees nothing, but Dean sees splattered blood and entrails from the fairy who he microwaved. And yeah, he explains that the monster was "a little, glowing, hot, naked lady, with nipples."

G: She's a hot woman.

C: Yeah. Do we see any female fairies for the rest of this episode?

G: I don't even think so. And also, everyone else-

C: Yeah, it's because women can't make watches, and they're not hot or naked. [G laughs]

G: Women literally cannot make watches in the Supernatural universe! [both laugh] Literally.

C: Very confusing to me. Ben Edlund, what even goes on? Sam goes, "I'm not supposed to laugh, right?" And then he does make an effort because yeah, they move on. And Sam says, "One of the fringe theories is that these UFO objections are actually with ultra-terrestrials, aka fairies." And Dean agrees that that could be the case because the woman had wings. They go to Marion's trailer. Marion's the woman who was talking about fairies earlier, and her decor is there's a lot of gnomes and fairies and things like that and porcelain around, a lot of knickknacks, and she's serving them tea from very small cups, and that's a huge point of humor in this scene, I suppose, that men are drinking from small teacups.

G: The scene where Jared Padelecki, and I do mean Jared Padelecki [C laughs] is drinking from the cup is a very famous one.

C: It is. She's talking about fairies, and Dean points at one of the figurines and is like, "Oh, that's sort of like the one I killed," but he doesn't say "killed." And yeah, Marion explains that tiny Santa Clauses and trolls and everything, goblins, they all count as fairies. And she seems very positive about them, and she mentions that only people who have been to fairyland can see them back in the real world, and they only take firstborn sons, we don't know why. And she says that she thinks that they're taken to Avalon to service Oberon, the King of the Fairies, so I mean, essentially, sexual slavery. And there's like, a moment that feels tense, but I think it's just tense because Sam's holding back laughter, and that's supposed to be the entire vibe, where he goes, "Dean. Did you service Oberon, King of the Fairies?" And he sounds very serious, but it's just because he thinks it's so so so so funny?

G: I don't think he thinks it's funny. That's not the vibe I got at all.

C: What is the vibe you got?

G: He's supposed to be like, "Uh." Like, that emotion. [laughing] I can't describe it. If it's not obvious, I'm having difficulty with my English this evening.

C: Yeah, is it just the like, I don't know, feeling- It's a very out-of-pocket thing for him to hear, so he's just going like-

G: No, this is why I find this scene weird, as I've said earlier. He shows no emotions or no consideration for sensitivity this entire episode. And now he's like- he's not laughing. He's uncomfortable. And I'm like, why would he be uncomfortable?

C: He's uncomfortable because he's trying to hold back laughter.

G: You think so? Are you sure?

C: Yeah, I mean, he repeats Marion's exact phrasing, which I feel like to me usually implies that he thinks that there's something funny or peculiar about the exact phrasing, which makes it feel like a holding back laughter thing.

G: Okay, got it.

C: But yeah, I don't know. If people have a different read, let us know. ‘Cause yeah, he hasn't shown himself to care about Dean being raped at all this episode, so.

G: Yeah. What does Dean say? He just looks over at Sam, right? Like he glares?

C: I think he just glares at him and moves on. He asks Marion, "How do we... do things about the fairies?" And Marion's like, "Oh, you wanna interact with them?" And Dean's like, "Forcefully interact." And she says to win a fairy's flavor- sorry, if you want to win a fairy's favor, you leave a bowl of fresh cream out for them. For more force, they hate iron, they burn when touched with silver, and if you spill sugar or salt in front of them, they have to stoop to count each grain. They're about to head out, but she asks them to just stay for a bit to finish their tea, and they just spend this time making fun of her for her decor. Dean calls it "cuterrific," and Sam asks for a bigger cup, but unfortunately, even though he's a man, he has to drink out of a small one! They head out, and they're like, "Well, that was wild! I don't know what to do next, but maybe let's call Bobby?" But they get a lead because they see Mr. Brennan buying a bunch of cream.

G: A flat of cream. [laughs] The fuck is a flat?

C: Like a flatbed truck? Like it was in a-

G: Ohh. That's an actual term? That's fun.

C: I don't know. I'm just guessing.

G: Oh, okay. A whole apartment of cream.

C: I don't know. I think it was like a whole- basically like a crate, but bigger, right? The floor of a flatbed trucks thing. So maybe.

G: So Sam and Dean split up. Sam's gonna keep an eye on Mr. Brennan, and Dean is gonna go to the watch shop. And as he heads in there, there's just a bunch of creature. Small guys. Like Thumbelina! [both laugh] Thumbelina is the only small girl I know, but they're all making the watches.

C: Yeah. And by small, we mean a foot tall, if shorter.

G: No, like Thumbelina. Yeah. Do people still know Thumbelina? I have not heard Thumbelina's name in so long.

C: I still know Thumbelina.

G: Who doesn't? [C laughs] A genuine question. Who doesn't know Thumbelina?

C: Some people.

G: I don't think my 8-year-old would know who Thumbelina is.

C: That's on you. You could introduce her to Thumbelina at any point.

G: Literally. Also, my 8-year-old sister. I don't have a child. So Dean calls Sam about it, and he's like, "Well, he made the deal with a bunch of fairies so they would make his watches or something." And so Sam is like, "Ugh, I'm gonna confront this guy." And so he does, and then he goes, "Did I ever mention how beautiful your work is? They're stunning. I just can't figure out how one man can make all of these watches. It's almost like a bunch of elves are working for you to make them. But that's not true, right? Except, it is true. [both laugh] A bunch of elves are working for you to make your watches." And he says, "Did you decide to trade your son for a bunch of watches? I mean, I assume you have a soul. So what's your excuse?" Love it. Do you think if Sam saw a completely bangerass watch, he'd sell Dean about it? Well, he was going to for a Coke, as [C: Yeah.] was established last last episode or last episode.

C: Is Sam a watch wearer?

G: I don't think he is.

C: I don't think so. I haven't seen him with one. He'd sell Dean for a FitBit.

G: No, Sam would tell Dean for an Apple Watch or something.

C: True, he will be an Apple Watch user, just vibes-wise, in later years.

G: It is so unfortunate that Sam and Dean are On the Road Jack Kerouac when Sam is literally, you know that term for the first wave of people to accommodate into a technology? Sam's literally that. [C: Yeah.] He literally would get an Apple Watch before everyone. He would get the Apple Visor before everyone else.

C: Is that a thing?

G: Yes!

C: We already had this conversation, maybe. Well, let's stop advertising for Apple. But yeah, I didn't know about that.

G: Mr. Brennan finally tells Sam- They are now like at the booth because this is now a booth conversation, not a bar conversation. And he says that what happened was he called on the elves simply because he just wanted to make better watches, or he wants to keep on making watches [C: Well, he couldn't.], but his hand was injured. He had-

C: No, he has Parkinson's, so it's not injury.

G: He has Parkinson's, oh! And he knows that his grandmother used to say that you can summon fairies, so he summons one, and then he wishes to be able to keep on making watches, and his hand- his Parkinson's not... do it anymore. [laughs]

C: Yeah, reduce the hand tremors from Parkinson's.

G: Yeah. He agrees, but he didn't realize that what he was agreeing to was that they were going to take "the fruit and the fat of the land," which is the term that they use, and he didn't understand that meant first-born sons. Rumpelstiltskin is the comparison that they make, and I love it so much. Literally like Rumpelstiltskin. [C: That's true.] Is it firstborn son or is it firstborn? [both] Marion said it was firstborn son. Yeah, and I don't think we did see a girl get taken. And he says that there is a way to reverse the spell, but because the fairies are in the book or in the store, and that's where the book is, he has not been able to get it. What a nightmare situation! What a horrible thing to experience this thing. But he can see the fairies, just like Dean Winchester. And as as we have this conversation, we see Dean get into a whole fiasco where the guy that has been like following him around is there and starts mimicking him as he's walking, which I do think they make this interesting- I don't really know what the purpose of this character is other than, you know, try to kill Dean later. It's never really explained, is it? You said it-

C: Yeah, I don't know. Dean tried to escape, so he's trying to bring him back, I think.

G: They're just trying to get someone to be a creepy mime, which is the vibe of this guy. He's like a creepy mime. But he mimics the way Dean walks. Dean was supposed to tackle him at some point, but then he ends up tackling a little person, and then he's calling this guy "a little fairy." "Fairy, fairy, fairy." He keeps on repeating it.

C: Yeah. [both laugh] Why? [laughs]

G: [laughing] What is up [both] with Ben Edlund.

C: I don't know. [G: Yeah.] He just loves a slur. He loves to get to say a slur and to laugh.

G: He loves to go "hehehehehe!" every time.

C: He loves to make Crowley say "fag" to refer to cigarette, right? Yeah, this is an episode where he goes, "Without a soul as a filter, you will be homophobic and make rape jokes all the time and disrespect women." This does seem to be a manifestation of him always sort of wanting to say a slur [both laugh] and coming up with plots that allow him to.

G: Well! This is happening pretty near the bar that Sam and Mr. Brennan are in.

C: Yeah, there are people nearby, and there's a little girl who screams, "Daddy!" And also, there's an Asian man there, and he's frowning and shaking his head to show that he disagrees with homophobia and ableism.

G: And then, you know, the cops show up and arrest Dean as Sam is heading out to Mr. Brennan's. And he's saying like, "Oh, don't worry, my brother and I, my brother can see the fairies, we can cover for you," etc. But then Dean is being cuffed and arrested. Sam is saying, "Hey, what's going on?" And Dean just goes, "Just fight those fairies! You fight those fairies! Fight the fairies!" What is-?

C: Why?

G: He would not say that shit. [C: Yeah.] First of all, we already know that it was the fairies, so like, if it was a reveal, if it was revealed now that "Oh, it's actually fairies!" then this would make sense, except that's not the case. And number two, doesn't he already understand that he's in trouble for potentially being a fucking hate crimer? [C: Yeah.] [laughs] And he did- I don't know. Many things going on in this episode, and all of them- well, some of them- bad. But now he's in jail, and as we said, the cop goes, "I don't even know what kind of hate crime this was." And Dean goes, "It wasn't a hate crime." And the cop goes, "If this gentleman was a full-sized homosexual, would that be okay with you?" [C laughing] And Dean says, [laughing] "I don't hate any size person or any size gay guy."

C: Separate categories! [G screams] So true. The three categories of sapient beings are person, gay guy, and monster.

G: You know, I kind of do commend Ben Edlund for getting him to say, from Jensen Ackles's mouth, "I don't hate any size gay guy." [both laugh] Like, I commend it. It's just- yeah. Hearing Jensen Ackles say "gay" is not- I don't know.

C: Every orientation.

G: Every orientation. He should have said "I don't hate any size person or any size person with any orientation."

C: Yeah, he should have said, "It's not about the heterosexual or the nonbinary."

G: No, why did Jared Padalecki say that? [C laughing] [C: Why did he say that?] Why did he say that? Why did he say that? What was the cause?

C: What did he mean? What did he think he was meaning?

G: I think he was- No, but why is it like, heterosexual and nonbinary specifically? [laughs]

C: Yeah, why are those the two?

G: I think he was trying to say that it's not about gender and sexuality. [both laughing] And of course, the main gender and the main sexuality is heterosexual and nonbinary. Yeah. So yeah, the cop goes, "Well, he's not gay, as it happens, but he is the district attorney for Tipton County." [laughs] And so- and they bring this up later as well. At the end of the episode, this is-? [C: Yeah.] Well, anyway, Dean goes like, "I'd say he's done so well for himself, considering his..." and then he pauses a bit, [C: Jesus.] and the cop looks at him and he looks at the cop, and he goes, "Considering the tough economic times."

C: Ugh. Yeah. Literally, Ben Edlund did go, "Wouldn't it be so funny if Dean was perceived as homophobic and ableist?"

G: And he was.

C: And then Dean immediately was homophobic and ableist?

G: Well, didn't you see, Crystal? He already said that he doesn't hate any size person or any size gay guy.

C: Or any size... gay... guy. [laughs] He paused.

G: He takes a pause. He goes, "Any size... gay. guy." [C laughs]

The cop doesn't buy it. And so we get a scene of Dean- and I do always love these scenes where someone is in a room or something, and they're just going around doing things in the room, walking, pacing, lying down somewhere.

C: Now, we cut to Sam and Mr. Brennan going inside his watch shop, and Sam obviously can't see anything, but Mr. Brennan can see that the fairies have all basically fallen asleep, or they're just very tired because they ate all that cream, and it sort of knocked them out. So he goes over to his safe and gets the book, and he starts reading it out loud in the shop. Go outside, dude! They can hear you! Maybe he needs to be near them for it to work. But yeah, he starts and he gets halfway through, and then-

G: He dies! [C: Yeah.] He gets killed! [laughs]

C: The guy who has been following Dean around stabs him in the back, and we see it as a shot of the blade going through his front in the middle of him reading. And then that guy transforms into Wayne, the UFO guy Sam was talking to earlier. And he is the leprechaun that made this deal in the first place And Sam's like, "Wow, you're so smart because you encourage the UFO stuff so that nobody knows that it's really fairies while you abduct the firstborns." Wayne is like, "Well, who cares if you know my secret? You're so screwed," and he disappears because he has the power to. And they have an exchange where Wayne is like, "I can tell that you're missing your soul because fairy folk are all about energy, and the human soul has a certain energy," which I guess is this episode's contribution to the Season 6 overall plot. And he says, "You know, like I could get your soul back for a price." And Sam says, "That's impossible because it's locked in a box with the devil," and Wayne says, "Your devil, not mine. We can do what angels can't do because we have real magic from fairyland." And Sam's like, "Okay, sure, I have a wish I want you to fulfill," and he shoots him with an iron bullet, and it's painful, but it doesn't really actually hurt him. And then the rest of this is a continued fight scene where a fairy shows up- I guess the guy that's been following Dean shows up inside his cell and starts beating the shit out of him. And it's tense, because "Oh, no! If Sam doesn't banish all the fairies in time, then Dean will die!"So yeah, Sam's struggling a lot, too, he's losing. And then he remembers to throw a bunch of salt on the floor, and Wayne, he goes, "Oh, no!" and he starts stooping down to count. Sam goes, "Why didn't I do that earlier?" So true. And while the leprechaun's counting, Sam finishes up the spell, and all the fairies vanish, and Dean's fine.

In the last scene- I think this is so interesting. I like this so much. Because, okay, Sam and Dana are by the car, and Dean offers him a beer, and he goes, "Nah." And we're so used to the two of them having a beer at the end of a case. It's like a bonding moment. Both of them enjoy this activity. And at this point, you realize that Sam only wanted to drink when he had a soul like, for Dean's feelings? [G laughs] Like, he doesn't enjoy this post-case ritual. There's nothing in it- Like, it was purely sentiment. He doesn't like beer. Earlier, when Dean comes back, Sam pours him a drink and tells him to drink, but he never drinks in this episode. Have we seen Sam, soulless Sam drink in general, in fact?

G: I'm not sure.

C: Like I don't recall it happening. I think he is not into it.

G: That's interesting. That's interesting. Let's keep on observing it.

C: Yeah, he's purely a social drinker. Yeah. And they're like, "We weren't ableist enough this episode. Let's do it again." So Dean cheers to, quote, "the tiniest DA" because he dropped the charges against Dean. He shouldn't've. And then Sam goes, "Little big man." Why? Why? I mean, "why" is ableism.

G: No, it's just, you know, we have talked about how Supernatural has a tendency to do things where they would have a person who is not their usual fare of character in Supernatural and do a big deal of pointing out such. And here, obviously, they put in a little person here so Dean can hate crime the guy, which is already insane. But post-hate crime, too, it's the only thing about him? Post-hate crime? What's going on?

C: Yeah. [laughs] What the fuck is going on? And then they move on because Dean's like, "Do you think the leprechaun really could have gotten your soul back?" And Sam's like, "No, probably not." And Dean's like, "I mean, why did you say no?" And Sam just says, "‘Cause it's a deal, and deals are bad," and blah blah blah. And Dean's like, "Okay, sure, but I think it's because you secretly don't want your soul back." And Sam's like, "What?? No. That's crazy." [laughs] And then the episode ends. [G laughs]

G: Literally. I mean, are we supposed to be on Dean's side of suspicion, or on Sam's side of, "[British] Dean, I can't believe you would be suspicious."

C: I think we're supposed to be on Dean's side, even though I don't think that not wanting to get his soul back had anything to do with Sam killing the leprechaun. But I think we are supposed to suspect because Sam's questions this episode have all been like, "Why do I have to do that? Having a soul is literally just suffering? Like, okay." So yeah, that's the episode.

G: Yeah. Well, what did we think of it?

C: I did not like it particularly.

G: It's less fun than I was led to believe it would be, given that it is a very famously funny episode, or known to be as such. I do think it proposes interesting things and funny things about Sam's characterization as soulless Sam, but not in a way that continues on the more interesting aspects of the season, and also, it absolutely lacks subtlety on it. [C: Yes.] AndSupernatural is not the kind of show where you demand subtlety, but like, it's nice when it happens! [laughs]

C: Yeah, I appreciate subtlety.

G: When it happens, they do it good sometimes! And so it is a little bit sad that they don't do it good this time. [C: Yeah.] Or they don't do it at all. Best Line/Worst Line? My best line is, in fact, "It would be in the dark." [C laughs] He's so real for that. It would be in the dark. [C: Yeah.] It's like, sometimes when I go to sleep, when I'm supposed to be doing something, and I turn the light on, so I'm asleep with the light on, I'm like, "I'm not working, but I'm asleep with the light on, so I-" [both laugh]

C: Yeah, you are. I also like that exchange just in general. The whole conversation, "Are you supposed to just sit there in the dark and suffer even when there's nothing that can be done at the moment?"

G: I do suppose I also like that Dean brings up Lisa [C: That Sam does?] because we haven't really seen- Yeah, that Sam does, because we haven't really seen it be around that much, or we have, but always Dean checking his phone, and we've never really spoken about it in Supernatural. Supernatural hasn't really addressed it in that way. And so it's fun for it to be addressed, I would say.

C: Yeah, I suppose so. [laughs] "Lisa, please pick up! It's so hard to explain that I was a vampire! We need to meet up so I could tell you the one sentence 'I was a vampire'!" [G: Literally.] Worst line, probably- there's a lot. [laughs] There's a lot of them. I feel like everyone knows what the worst lines are. They're just all the ableist and homophobic ones.

G: Yeah, I did severely dislike "Did you service Oberon, the King of the Fairies?" And I also don't like the fact that that's a semi-famous fandom line.

C: It is.

G: Yeah. And also the implications on Sam's character of that line, I also don't like. Spreadsheets. Spread those sheets. [C: Well.] Well, we have quite a bit. We kind of already do have a honorary category of ableism. [C: Yeah.] I said at the end of Season 5 that we were gonna add it for real, but we didn't end up doing it.

C: I forgor.

G: We literally forgor, but that's okay. We can just remain it to be honorary.

C: Okay, [both] misogyny. Sam disrespects women.

G: Yes, but there is also a misogynistic attitude behind the way they treat Marion. [C: Yeah.] So I would say, I give this- It's casual enough, I give it 2 or 1.

C: Yeah, I was thinking 1.

G: Okay. Racism.

C: I don't remember any.

G: I did say it was culturally insensitive. [laughs]

C: Yes.

G: But I am not including it.

C: I mean, the fairies that they make fun of in this episode are pretty Western culture.

G: Yeah, but I don't know.

C: Yeah, it's fucked.

G: I just hate the gender- Why are we making monsters gendered? It's always egregious, too. The fact that witches are like, the girl monsters, [both laugh] and they're "bitches!" You know, Dean loves to say that.

C: You know, I'm gonna up the misogyny to 2 now that I think about it more. But yeah, nothing on racism, or?

G: I would say nothing on racism.

C: [both] Homophobia. I think it's intrinsic.

G: This has got to be- It's intrinsic. I would say it's a 4.

C: Yeah, I was thinking 4, too. Alright.

G: And I do think the ableism is the same. It's also 4.

C: Yeah. Yeah. Well, good job, Ben Edlund. If we add the honorary points, then you have 10 this episode. [G laughing]

G: Go, Ben! Love that!

C: Go, Ben!

G: Well, IMDb? I am that Db. This is 6.09. So it's odd. It's your turn.

C: I mean, this is iconic regarding the humor. I've seen people talk about it a lot. But I also think it's like, not good, [laughs] so.

G: Yeah. The episode, it's an iconic episode, but not because of the quality of it, is the thing. [C: Yeah.] It's about other things.

C: Yeah. So... 8.1?

G: Okay, 8.1. I'm gonna go higher than you, because I do believe in the power of [both] humor. I would go 8.4.

C: Oh, wow!

G: Yeah. Okay, let's see. Ah! It's an 8.3.

C: Good job. [G: Thank you.] I'm losing so so so so hard this season.

G: Yeah. "A funny joke with the X-Files." What is the deal with X-Files? What is the twist of it? That it's like, actually [both] aliens-

C: I think it's aliens.

G: - when they think it's like the FBI shit?

C: Okay, this person says that this was funny, but they're missing good old Sammy now. "I hope they don't stretch it any further because it would turn the humor into sheer annoyance."

G: This one says that "It was interesting to see Supernatural tackle fairy lore, which actually has a lot more horror potential than most people realize." And they talk a bit about how it was the Victorians who started to romanticize them, and then Disney, "but if you read some of the older tales or listen to still current ones in rural Ireland or Scotland, fairies are anything but cute and harmless." I wonder- they don't do a Filipino lore situation at any point in Supernatural. They do an Indonesian one?

C: Do they?

G: I'm pretty sure. In "The Chitters." They have an Indonesian monster. I do think this has been- I don't know if I've mentioned this in the podcast before, but the global, you know, lore of stuff like this is so rich, I would say especially in southeast Asia. It's like- I think we are a region that is famously like, people believe in that shit. And I've actually read some papers on this where the take is that when you're in a country with that much colonial and also dictatorship violence, and there's a lot of censorship, it happens that your mythical lore or the mystical creature and haunted and ghost shit is much higher. I think I've said in this podcast that I actively believe in ghosts and creatures and stuff. I don't know. It's not like I want Supernatural to tackle them. [both laugh] But like, I do- for this one specifically, I understand that there are people who believe in this, you know? And so I feel a little bit more- this is more akin to me to when they- I mean, obviously, it's a different thing, but this is like closer to me when they make fun of gods [C: Right.] than they do when they talk about vampires or werewolves. I think that's where my pushback against it is coming from. [C: That makes sense.] Yeah, even though it's not- obviously not from my culture. But yeah. [C: Yeah.] This one says, "I believe, clap clap clap clap clap emoji." That's pretty fun. [laughs] But they think it's an incredibly funny episode. Not true. Not funnay.

C: Not true. "For some reason, I like the first episodes in Season 6 where Sam has no soul. When he is normal, he is a more weak and always end himself up being hit by the monsters." [both laugh] Sam got hit pretty hard in this episode, too!

G: Oh, Robert Picardo from Star Trek is here. Who is that guy? Robert Picardo... Oh, he is from Star Trek: Voyager, which I have not seen. That's fun that they put him in here. He was Mr. Brennan. Or was he the leprechaun? I'm not sure.

C: I don't know.

G: That’s it for this episode of Busty Asian Beauties. Next week, we will be discussing Season 6, Episode 10: "Caged Heat." Leave us a rating or a review wherever you get your podcasts.

C: Follow us on social media! We are on Tumblr at bustyasianbeautiespod.tumblr.com. Our official tag is #BABPod, B-A-B-POD. Thanks to everyone who's donated to our Ko-Fi- Oh, especially that last person. Thank you!

G: Oh, that's very nice. Yeah, thank you.

C: Yeah, thank you. I guess you said that you were just finishing Season 1 when you gave us that money, so it's gonna be a long time before you get here, if you even do. But thanks! [G: Yeah!] But yeah, thank you to everyone who's donated to our Ko-Fi at ko-fi.com/bustyasianbeautiespod, which is where our outtakes live, and check out our merch at babpod.redbubble.com.

G: You can email us any feedback, comments, or inquiries at [email protected]. See you guys next time! [both] Bye!

[guitar music]

#transcript

0 notes