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Episode 114 Transcript: Deus Ex Machina That Doesn’t Work

[intro guitar music]

G: Hello, it's Grey.

C: Hello, it's Crystal.

G: And this is Busty Asian Beauties, a Supernatural commentary podcast where I, someone who has seen this show many times...

C: And I, someone who only knows the show through social media, discuss every single episode of Supernatural from start to finish. Also, we are both Asian.

G: Well, today, we will be discussing Season 6, Episode 10: "Caged Heat," written by- It says here, “teleplay by Brett Matthews, story by Brett Matthews and Jenny Klein, directed by Robert Singer.” This is a Singer episode. There's one zoom, and I did notice it, and I was like, "Ah! A zoom!"

C: Wait, when was it?

G: I think it was when they're about to go meet Meg, right after they talk to Samuel, in the scene where Samuel is like, "[Samuel voice] I'm gonna bring Mary back, [C laughs] and you cannot stop me." they zoom out of Sam and Dean's face. Lovely!

C: Okay. It's a reverse Robert Singer zoom?

G: Oh, no, no, no! They zoom in, and then they head out of the barn or wherever they are.

C: I see, I understand.

G: And I recognized Robert Singer completely. It was so subtle, too. It was like he was trying to hide who he is, [C laughs] but I will know him wherever he goes, whatever he does.

C: Yeah. Brett Matthews previously did “Live Free or Twihard,” which we did not like. [G: Yeah.] Jenny Klein previously did "The Curious Case of Dean Winchester," which we had mixed feelings on?

G: Yeah, this was the one with the Irish guy, right? [C: Yeah.] Loved him. So yeah, love it completely.

C: Oh, yeah, Sampatrick rights.

G: [laughing] I mean, to be fair, hindsight produces some really good memories. Because when you said "Live Free or Twihard," and you were like, "We didn't like," I was like, "Is that true?" [both laugh] But I was like, "Wasn't that the one where Dean gets turned into a vampire? That's such a fun concept!" And it is such a fun concept.

C: It is a fun concept. Except the rest of the concepts were teenage sex slaves that they made fun of the whole time.

G: Yeah. [laughs] What did you know about this episode before going in?

C: I knew that this was the episode with the Megstiel kiss, which she does it in order to get his angel blade, and that sometime in this episode, Dean has a line for Cas where he's like, "I would have given you an hour to fuck Meg before I killed her." Great. Love it. I knew that there would be some conflict between Crowley and Meg over some sort of political issue in Hell. I didn't know that it was in this episode, but obviously, I've seen "Will you, boy?" [laughs]

G: Of course! That's what makes them good in bed, etc.

C: Literally. Literally. And also, the pizza man. The thing. [G: Yeah.] The beginning of the pizza man- not cold open. The "Then" sequence? [G laughs] The pizza man "Then" sequence. It's here.

G: Literally! So many seasons from now. That's in Season 15, I'm pretty sure. Is that true?

C: It's gotta be 8, right? No?

G: No, that's like, in Season 15!

C: Wait. What was the relevance of the pizza man [laughing] in Season 15?

G: [laughs] Literally nothing! [laughs] It literally is just a scene where Cas goes, "If the pizza truly loved the babysitter," [both laughing] and then, like, what's her name? Ruby opening the door-

C: [laughing] And then a bunch of scenes of Dean specifically eating pizza. [both laughing] [G: The Destiel warriors-] I just feel like if it was Season 15 they would have thrown in a scene of Cas babysitting Nora's baby [both laugh] [G: No, yeah.] as well to really drive it home.

G: Well, we will see you when this cold open happens, and it will surprise us both. [both laughing] It's one of those things that like, if I told someone who is not into Supernatural, they'd be like, "I think you're like looking too much into things." But like, it really did happen on my screen.

C: Yeah, it did.

G: Obviously, you've seen the boob contraption.

C: Yeah, I mean, they did it to Jo and Ruby before. Classic.

G: Yeah. Obviously, you've seen it before. Is that true? Like, you know it happens to Meg.

C: I think I did, but I just didn't really remember it. I just assume every hot woman on Supernatural gets to be in the boobstrap table.

G: Who is evil, yeah.

C: Jo's not evil.

G: Who? Oh, yeah!

C: Didn't they do it to Jo?

G: Is that true?

C: Did they not?

G: I don't know. It's been years since we did that episode, probably. [laughs]

C: True. Whatever it was, it's been years.

G: It's been years, it's been so long.

C: I wonder if there's a page for boobstrap table Supernatural. I'm not getting anything.

G: Yeah. Before we start, I do want to say, I don't like this episode, and Crystal does.

C: Yeah, I do.

G: So that's gonna be interesting. Why do you like it? What are the reasons why?

C: I think that after 6.09, it is a very interesting look into the ways that Sam, being soulless, actually does make him a good hunter, [G: Yeah.] especially in the context of these demons that he seems to relate to in a way and seem to relate to him back. I like Meg, unlike you, and I think the reasons that you dislike her are very good. [G laughs] However, I do wuv her still, so it was good to see her. It was good to see Cas. I liked seeing his silly little face. And yeah, I don't know. It just had two characters that I like, and I thought that there were interesting themes and motifs going on.

G: Yeah. Well, the reasons why I didn't like this episode is that I think I am at a point where I'm just so tired of plot episodes. I want a case episode. And with episodes like this, it feels like there's no like room to breathe, you know? Because there's so many things happening. Actually, this one, there's not a lot that happened. It's all just bullshit.

C: It's one mission.

G: It still feels so rushed and so I don't know, like, "Okay, who give a shit?" [laughs] And I understand that these are essential episodes. We need episodes like this to keep the show plot going, but who give a shit, you know?

C: Doesn't it feel rushed because Cas and Crowley are kind of engineering things behind the scenes anyway?

G: Yeah.

C: It feels off because we revisit this in 6.20, and we're like, "Oh my god! Those weren't even his bones!"

G: Yeah, I suppose so. I mean, I don't know. I just- I hate everyone. I hate Samuel. [C: Yeah.] I hate Dean. I hate Meg. I hate Castiel in this episode. [C: Gasp.] I hate Crowley in this episode. I mean, actually, Crowley and Sam are fine. Samstiel real. No, that's not- Crowstiel?

C: Cram rights.

G: Cram! How can I forget? How dare I? Well, Cram rights. Sam and Crowley are completely fine this episode. Love Sam. Love Sam! Love Sam! Everyone was so fucking annoying, and-

C: Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention. Of course I know that he fucking chewed through his arm to make a demon trap.

G: Yeah, love that. And then the little grin. Love it! Anyway, let's start with our episode. We start with Crowley tied up to a chair, beaten up bloody. But then, obviously, this is not Crowley. This is a shapeshifter, and the alpha shapeshifter that has turned into Crowley. And the real Crowley is going about torturing this guy. And every time that Crowley tortures now, I do always remember when you said, "They always tout him as like, 'He's good at making deals,' etc, and the only deal he makes is like, 'I'm gonna kill you!'" [both laugh]

C: Yeah, yeah, exactly that.

G: And he's going here, "I'm gonna kill and torture you!" and that's the deal.

C: And then he does. He does both of those things.

G: Yeah, I mean, he keeps to his word. We gotta give him that. That's the entire groove of the conversation. Crowley's saying, "Get me to Purgatory. I know you know where it is. I know you can draw me a map," blah blah blah blah blah blah. And the alpha is like, "No, I don't. No, I don't." [C laughs] And then at some point, Crowley says that he has a whole nursery of all the baby shapeshifters, and then he holds up the phone [C: Baby monitor.] or the baby monitor, I think, [C: Yeah.] to make the alpha listen to the crying sounds. But then he says he'll kill them if you don't tell me. And the alpha goes, "Okay!" And then Crowley kills the guy. RIP. Rest in Purgatory.

C: Real. For real. It doesn't matter if you kill an alpha of a species? It's just whatever?

G: Yeah, like, literally. Because they portray these characters as super powerful with- I suppose it's only the vampire that they make it like they have a-

C: The alpha shapeshifter attacks them in- what? 6.02? And there's a whole, "You can't do it. You can't take them down." Yeah.

G: No, what I mean is the psychic connection with everyone, it's only the vampire that they show that about, right?

C: Right, that's true. So it's not like the alpha shapeshifter could call every shapeshifter over to help. [G: Yeah.] But why not?

G: And also, it implies the idea that if the alpha vampire, if he gets killed, it's like losing like a leader for real, [C: Right.] with an impact of losing that, versus the alpha shapeshifter, where it's like whatever. [laughs] Like, who give a shit?

C: Yeah. Was there nothing about like somebody sensing the father or whatever in 6.02 with the shapeshifters?

G: I don't recall, but I don't think so. [C: Okay.] You get a splash screen. We go to Sam and Dean.

C: God! I don't know. I did not like this opening scene. [G: Why?] The guy's just tied up with regular chains. We have whatever Supernatural's stupidass torture thing is. Crowley, at some point, pulls out the world's most boring looking knife, and he's like, [G: Yeah, and he has this whole speech.] "This is the most rare weapon ever, and it can hurt you for real!" Like, okay. Can it look cool at least? It just means that Crowley's entire operation is just he's telling Samuel to capture alphas, torture them, and then hand them over to him for more torture, which isn't even better than Samuel's torture. Is there literally nothing else you can do like? Maybe there's like a scientific fucking test you can do on like a skin sample to like, figure out the ash levels in Purgatory or whatever. I don't care. This is just boring. I don't care.

G: Yeah, it's obviously not working anymore, so like, are they really so fucking clueless about what to do? Zero ideas? Zero further moves to make?

C: Yeah, if torture doesn't work, I'll just torture some more? [G laughs]

G: Literally. And they built an entire compound out of it. It's a whole thing.

C: Yeah. And if the compound's meant to enact, I don't know, psychological torture as well, then I don't really see the point of killing the alpha shapeshifter right now. Killing him means there's literally no further leads that Crowley thinks that he can pursue with this character, and that just doesn't bode well, I think, for this whole plan. And I think it lowers the stakes or just makes it seem less doable, so we're less invested.

G: And it doesn't even feel like the shifter has been there for a long time from what we see. [C: Yeah.] So like, okay. [C: Yeah.] What Supernatural should be doing is better torture, [both laugh] is what we seem to be advocating.

C: Yeah, I think it is [laughs] that if Supernatural must have torture in it at the level that it does, and as the only solution it has, add a little nuance! Add a little flair! [both laugh] Whatever, dumb. And after he decapitates the alpha shapeshifter, he goes, "Oh, I kind of lost my head there." Who is that for, Crowley? Shut up! I don't like you very much. You're annoying.

G: It's for us!

C: Well, he doesn't know we're here.

G: Or does he?

C: Or does he? I'm the one who supposedly likes this episode. [both laugh] I do. Just not this scene.

-

C: Sam and Dean are pulling up to these two demons with a car, and they're bringing in a rugaru. Maybe the alpha rugaru. They want to know where Crowley is and why they can only interact with his henchmen. But you know, it just doesn't work. The demon calls them women in two different ways, and then leaves.

G: No, it's a whole extended bit. He's committed to this joke that like, "Oh, really? Well, maybe you stop being a girl." [C laughs] Like, what is going on?

C: Yeah, yeah. What is going on? I mean, Brett Matthews, the only other thing he's written has also had monsters being more misogynistic than we  usually see them to be. I feel like vampires weren't the level of misogyny that we saw them in “Live Free or Twihard,” so this could just be a continuation of him thinking what a cool, evil thing to say is?

G: It's also like- I also did get a little bit pissed off. Not pissed off, I just rolled my eyes in the scene where the demon is like, saying his magic line that is supposed to impose fear in Sam and Dean's heart or whatever. And then he  changes his eyes to the demon eyes, even though we already knew he was a demon.

C: No, literally!

G: And it's like so fucking corny, tired, and played out. And they played a sound effect of like, "Tuh-tuh!" [C laughs] Like, okay. [laughs] We get it. We don't care.

C: I remember that Christian was possessed by a demon and then you took him away or whatever. That was like, in 6.07, right? That's three episodes ago. If you cared that much, just put it in the then sequence, and then don't do it here.

So Sam and Dean go back to their place, and Dean's just super done with working for Crowley. He mentions that the only thing that's really changed is that now he "needs a daily rape shower," which I think is the start of, though there's also been hints earlier with Crowley saying that he's gonna torture the shapeshifter with a speculum - and I think the demon calling them a little bitch just then - where one of the like ongoing things throughout this episode is like a real, strong focus on the like, demons and sexual assault aspect of demonhood, where a lot of demons assert their power through sexual harassment, and like, I don't know. I think in the past, there was "demon possession is akin to-"

G: As an allegory, yeah.

C: Right. I feel like this episode, it's a little bit more the- I mean, here, it's more the other way around where it's like using rape as a metaphor for interacting with demons rather than using demons as a metaphor for experiencing rape, which I feel like was more how this started.

G: Yeah, yeah.

C: But yeah, I mean, I don't really have a fully-formed thought on that. I think it happens that metaphors end up being two ways sometimes, but I don't know. One of these things is real, and one of them isn't. But anyway, yeah. They get really hard into this thing right now and then yeah, later, I think it's more just rape and demon possession and demons are just two separate things, but rape is a tool that demons use in order to assert power and torture, and all that, which I think we sort of knew already as well. Sam's just like, "Well, we have to keep working for Crowley because we need my soul back." And Dean continues questioning that Sam even wants it. And then Sam suddenly stops replying, and Dean goes over to the other room, and Sam's been knocked out, and then a demon knocks Dean out.

G: Yeah, I do love the scene where Sam disappears. It's like, "Ooh, ominous!" Because a part of me was like, "Wow! He ran off that quick. Good for him!" [C laughs] And I went, "Oh, yeah, they're in the demon show where they get taken by demons. Alright."

-

C: Sam and Dean wake up, tied up to chairs, and Meg is there. She's also going much harder in the sexual harassment, sexual assault talk in this scene, but not in the direct behavior, because I feel like half the time we've seen her, she's straight up sexually assaulted Sam and Dean. But for here, they're clearly doing like a "bark more than her bite" thing where she's really going hard into this because she's nervous, and she's trying to assert some sort of power in the way that we usually see her doing it.

G: Yeah, which Sam points out.

C: Yeah. She's questioning them about where Crowley is, and clearly just upset and frustrated, and really, really needs this information. Or I don't know about "clearly." It's clear after Sam points it out. So yeah, I mean, she straddles Dean's lap, and she starts saying like, "I'll kill you if you don't tell me." But Sam starts laughing, and he says, "Can't you tell? Meg is so fucking furious. If she could kill you, she would have done it by now. She's clearly terrified. I think that she's running from Crowley because Crowley wants to hunt down all of the Lucifer loyalists now." And when Meg asks, "How would you know?" Sam says, "That's what I'd do." Love it! Love it.

G: Yes! Literally boy king of Hell.

C: Boy king of Hell as fuck.

G: He didn't take the job, but he's gonna complain about who the fuck is doing it. Good for him.

C: Exactly. Did we already talk about how, you know, one way of going to Hell and coming back wrong is becoming a demon, and soulless Sam is also a different iteration of that. How- I don't know. How different is a demon from a soulless person in terms of how the Supernatural writers expect them to act or how their minds work?

G: Well, Sam doesn't have any powers.

C: Right, and I guess he also doesn't have any feelings, whereas demons do.

G: Yeah. Meg is explicitly scared, so like, that's a feeling.

C: Right, but somehow, he still ends up at the same place with how Crowley thinks, at least.

G: I think that thought process is more of a- we're just supposed to not really think about it in a "They have the same mindset." [C: Okay, yeah.] That's not what it's supposed to tell us. What it's supposed to tell us is that Sam is willing to put himself in the situation of "Well, if I was doing that, what would I do?" which is like, a little bit of a morbid thought, you know? I feel like perhaps Sam Winchester, with a soul, would still end up with this conclusion if he thought about it, but it's the idea that he thought about it before, seemingly. [C: Uh-huh.] That is the one we're supposed to go like, "Oh, okay." Do you understand what I'm saying? Like, in the past, he-

C: I think so, but I don't think we're supposed to think he thought about this on the spot. I don't know.

G: I think he's like, in his pastime, going like, "What would I do if I was Crowley?" [laughs] And that's supposed to be the thing that bothers us a little bit or something. I don't know. I'm not bothered so like, I don't give a fuck.

C: Because he and Dean have been working for Crowley for a long time, you'd think that a basic part of strategy is for them to think, "If we were Crowley, what do we think we would do?"

G: They are working for Crowley at a different department. [laughs] [C: Yeah, okay.] So fuck knows what they know about the other departments of Hell.

C: No, that's fair. I think what is supposed to be off-putting is that Sam is so sure that he understands Crowley.

G: Yeah, I suppose maybe that, too, yeah. It is the willingness to- For what I was saying, it's the willingness to get to that level of understanding Crowley and what you're saying is like, the understanding itself. [C: Yeah.] Yeah, I think those are similar enough ideas to be able to-

C: Yeah, live together in harmony.

G: I do, I suppose, enjoy a little bit that- Meg says this later. Sam is finally the person that I think Meg wanted him to be.

C: Yeah, in Season 2.

G: And it's because he's soulless, which is like, kind of a slay. I mean, not a slay in that way, but like it's fun to think about. It's a fun thing to think about, and it does bring up the question you were asking earlier, how different is a demon from a soulless person? I have been- This episode brought up a lot of things about how souls work. Sam is different from his soul. A soul is not him. It's just a component, is, I think, what Supernatural is saying, finally. They will say it later with soulless Jack and stuff, but now, the entire conversation, it never is that Sam is down there, you know what I mean? The soul is a completely separate thing. Which just makes you wonder like, why not just put a different soul in him? [C laughing] Why not just put a different guy in there?

C: 'Cause then there'd be a person without a soul, I suppose. But yeah, none of the memories are associated with the soul. They're in Sam's mind. So yeah, why not just put a different soul in there?

G: Yeah. And I mean, it also makes me wonder, so what was- A soul is different from a consciousness, is what Supernatural is trying to say. Like, Sam obviously has a consciousness right now. He doesn't have a soul. So like, I don't know. They are typically together? It's just in special circumstances where they're apart? But that means that they are apart. They are different things, no matter what, if you can separate them in that way. [C: Yeah.] I don't know. It's like, I don't know what Supernatural really is trying to say with all of the soul bullshit. I don't know what this means or what it's supposed to imply.

C: From the last episode, it seemed like all that a soul did was, what? Make you more empathetic and care about being niceys? [laughs] [G: Yeah.] Like, I don't think that's right.

G: Like, what if the person has a soul but doesn't give a fuck about that anyway? Then what is the soul there for? You know what I mean? What is the soul there for?

C: Yeah. And Sam putting himself in Crowley's shoes for like figuring this out is a form of empathy. [G: Is empathy, yeah.] It's just that they've divided things into good empathy and bad empathy [G: It's not niceys.] in Supernatural.

G: Yeah, well, I don't know.

C: The Meg line that you mentioned later where she tells Sam, "Oh, you're missing your soul. I thought you just like, grew a pair," or whatever her exact phrasing was. I did enjoy that. Because I mean, I don't know. During this whole interaction here, I was wondering like, is she gonna know because she possessed him once? She's had a scene post-Season 2 where she tells him like, "I've been inside your sad little head, so like, I know and understand you," and I just feel like they haven't really done much of that with Meg and Sam since. [G: Yeah.] Right now, they are at a point where both of them basically have the same understanding of who Sam is, like who soulled Sam is. Like, she has his memories from when she was in his head. He has his memories from him currently being in his head. And she was very good at acting as him for a week or so, and he did that to Dean for a little while. They have done very similar things with Sam's body or just his whole vibe. But yeah, I don't know. There hasn't been a lot of that in this episode, and I don't think there will be later on.

G: That is an interesting idea, then. If a demon possesses someone, they're possessing their consciousness? But the person inside is also still conscious. [C: Yeah.] But they have access to the memories. So in Supernatural land, memories is different from consciousness is different from soul. [C: Mm-hm.] Wow! There's so many stuff in there!

C: It's a lot of stuff in there.

G: Lot of stuff.

C: Goop everywhere

G: As you said, there's a lot of sexual innuendo- not even innuendo, just straight up. When she's about slit Dean's throat or something, or she's acting like it while straddling his lap, she goes, "Let's end the foreplay. Either you please me or I please myself." and stuff like that. And then they're tied to a chair, so when Dean's like, "Oh, are you gonna untie us?" she goes like, "Well, don't pretend you don't enjoy it" and stuff like that. [C: Yeah.] And then there's also one guy who's really- They're like, "He's really mean-looking," but I don't actually get why.

C: Yeah, he's normal. [laughs]

G: He's normo-schnormo? I don't know. Like later, Sam kills this guy, and he tells everyone, "He was gonna jeopardize this whole thing because he's so intent on killing us, and you know it!" And I'm like, "I don't know it. I don't know it." Maybe they do, but I don't.

C: For real.

C: And I just am pointing that out because I want to contextualize why I don't like Meg. We've had Meg truly for a long time in comparison to any other character in the show, right?

C: I think she's maybe the oldest recurring character.

G: Yeah, aside from like, John Winchester. [laughs] Well, no, she's older than John Winchester. She was up first. [C: Yeah.] I mean, technically-

C: I mean, we see him in the pilot, briefly. [G laughs] But also like, John's dead. We haven't talked to him since Season 2.

G: Missouri is technically recurring, but I don't think it counts because they recur her to kill her.

C: Yeah, she's only here twice.

G: Yeah. But Meg is our oldest recurring character, and I have historically not liked her, and I have always like held out a little bit because- I don't know. Well, you like her. [C laughs] And also, many people do. And also I know that she's gonna have an interesting relationship with Cas. And so I was like, "Okay, let's hold out" because, you know, etc etc. I think I'm at a point where I'm like, I just don't like her, I think. I don't need to hold out. I don't like her. But you know what? I will hold out so I can have the deep satisfaction when she dies, and I'm like, "See? I never liked her all along." [laughs]

C: Wait, so you're gonna hold out on the- You're deciding not to decide to dislike her forever, so that when she dies you can go, "I always disliked her"?

G: Yes.

C: Shouldn't you just be deciding that you dislike her now and retroactively?

C: No no no. Because if I decide now that I don't like her and will never give her the benefit of the doubt, that's going to seep into further stuff. So right now, I'm still like, "Okay, let's give it a shot. Let's give it a shot." I mean, she's going to be a different character in Season 7 and Season 8. That's true. That's a true thing that will happen. She's going to be- she's going to have a different dynamic with everyone, and so I suppose I shall look forward to that, but also there is so much sour taste in my mouth with regards to her that maybe when we get there, I'll just be further annoyed. But let's see.

C: Let's see.

G: I understand that it's like a Supernatural thing, like it's a writer thing, and there are times when especially a female character is written in a way that I'm like, "Oh, I cannot find it in me to like-" or like, "It's so obvious that these are like, writing choices that are like, based on what the writer is and is being misogynistic versus someone actually trying to do a good job of building a character, you know, and portraying a person." With Meg, I find it difficult to do it. Like, "Whatever, this is just like a writer doing something fuck-all." I find it difficult to actually think about her as a character. And so that's my thing. [C: Yeah.] I don't know. You have talked about in the past about her motivations as like, someone who's loyal to Lucifer and how she changed allegiance, seemingly, in a way that's like, she's a person who needs that kind of thing to survive, she needs to have like something to worship. And like, you know, stuff like that. Okay, maybe that's interesting. And it is. It is interesting. It's just when she's actually on my screen, I find her completely unbearable. [C: Yeah.] So like, maybe Meg shall remain as someone that I think about outside of actually watching the show, [C laughs] because when I am watching the show, I'm just like, "Oh, come on."

C: Yeah, I mean, that makes sense.

After Sam realizes that Meg is running from Crowley, he decides that they should team up. He tells her that he and Dean will tell her where Crowley is, and she can go and kill him, but the Winchesters will come with her, and before she kills him, she needs to get him to give up Sam's soul. But he doesn't tell her what it is. [G: He doesn't say it, yeah.] He says, "Wring a little something out of him." Sam asks if Meg is up to the task, and she says that she apprenticed under Alastair in Hell just like Dean, so absolutely yes.

G: And the way she says it is she turns to Dean and is like, "What do you think?" And Dean goes, "Yeah, she can do it." Which is like, again, it's so, corny, tired, and played out because it is in no way influential to the episode. [laughs] We don't really see Meg do anything to Crowley.

C: She tortures Crowley.

G: How?

C: She does the thing where she like, clenches her fist and then he's falling on the ground choking and stuff, and she says the best torture is hands-off!

G: Yeah. And then he pushes her and then shoves the knife up.

C: That's when she's about to kill her. She did get him to give up the information that he was hiding about Sam's soul-

G: Oh, yeah! That's true!

C: - which is that he's been stringing them along for nothing, because he's not planning to give it back.

G: That's true. Good for her.

C: Yeah. [laughs]

-

G: Dean is mad at Sam now as they head up, because, like, "How dare you do that? She killed Ellen and Jo." And Sam's like, "Dean, you know what? I know that she's gonna trick us. So you know what? We'll trick her first." And then he says, "We're going to kill them the second that we're done with them." And by them, I do mean the whole group of demons, not they/them Meg. [C laughs] Dean is like, "Well, what if they kill us first?" And Sam says, "No!" 'Cause we're bringing our little angel on our shoulder, whatever.

C: Yeah, [laughing] who we also brought when Meg killed Ellen and Jo, and who was completely useless the entire episode because he got trapped in holy fire. That one. [G: Literally.] We're gonna be super fine with this plan that did not work last time.

G: Exactly. He's also going to get blasted off this episode, don't worry about it. [both laughing] They said, "We need a deus ex machina that doesn't work." [C laughs]

C: Yeah. It's 'cause God doesn't like him anymore. He's just an ex machina.

G: He's an ex deus ex machina. Well, now, we get a truly iconic, [C: So good.] truly iconic scene where Sam heads out, and he starts praying to Cas. But obviously, Cas DGAF. At first he's just saying, "We need you, pwease." He doesn't say "pwease," but imagine if he did. And then he he pivots and he goes, "Oh, the reason why I'm calling you is because there's this fucking gold box that the Nazis really liked in World War II, and then somebody opened it now, and it burned their face off. Anyway, we think it's the Ark of the Covenant." And then Cas is just there. He's there immediately. And he goes, "Where's the box?" And Sam goes, "Wow! You're so fucking stupid!"

C: And he does say that like that.

G: No, he goes, "I can't believe you fell for that. It's the plot of Raiders, idiot." Love it! That's actually worse than saying, "You're so fucking stupid." [C laughs] Yeah. Anyway, Cas is like, "Why did you call me? I have so many things! I'm so busy." And Sam says- he's really going at it. He's like, "I'm gonna bite your neck off." He goes like, "I don't care if you're losing. I don't care what you're fucking doing. You owe me, and so if I call you, you go down here." And then Cas is trying to explain himself. He's like, "You may not care, but like, believe me," blah blah blah. And Sam's like, "Do you think you're here to negotiate with me? If you can't help us, I will hunt you down and kill you." And Cas through this whole time has been mildly apologetic. [C laughs] He is intent on trying to explain to Sam why he can't come down. He just looks at Sam incredulously, and he takes a pause, and then he goes, "Will you... boy? How?" [C laughs] And Sam goes, "I don't know yet, but I will look into it until I find out, and I don't sleep."

C: That's what makes them good in bed.

G: Yeah, we're gonna reblog that again. We've already reblogged it before, I'm pretty sure. We have got to have.

C: Yeah, probably.

G: But when was it time?

C: I don't know. Soulfisting?

G: No, we didn't. I didn't. We didn't mention it until fisting. Can you believe it?

C: We mentioned it before that, I'm sure.

G: We have, definitely. I think we mentioned it- we probably mentioned it. I don't know. I'll reblog it. Anyway, Cas is like, "Okay, fine whatevs." And they show up, and Dean's like, "Wow, you actually showed up." [C laughs] And he's impressed by this. It does make me wonder how many times they have tried to call Cas that we don't know of, if they're like- Because we only saw- What have we seen of Cas and Dean. And Sam. [both laugh] What have we seen of Cas and Dean and Sam?

C: Ha, haha. In Season 6?

G: Yeah. I think the last time when was the last time we saw Castiel, was it literally the whiskey pouring scene? It must be after that.

C: Wasn't he there in "Family Matters" briefly, to meet with Samuel?

G: Oh, yeah, to check Sam's soul?

C: Yeah.

G: Okay, you're right, you're right. He was there the whole Sam soul debacle. Yeah, and that comes after the one with the pouring the wine or the- not wine. That's too gay. [C laughs] The whiskey. Also gay.

C: No, because that was in the "You Can't Handle the Truth" episode, which is the one right before.

G: Okay, got it. So we have established that Cas doesn't show up. But the last time Dean called him, seemingly, he showed up. And so how many times have they called?

C: Every time he shows up, they're always like, "Thank God. I've been calling you for five million months." so I think they just don't show us the times when they try and fail.

G: Yeah, that's fun. That's fun to think about. Yeah. And I do wonder about the line "You owe it to me" or something.

C: Well, yeah, it's just because Cas didn't answer him for the whole year.

G: But he's not answering again, so like, I don't know. So that's what Sam is talking about?

C: I think so.

G: Do you think Sam has any inkling that like, Cas left his fucking soul behind?

C: I don't think so, right? Because there's the beautiful, beautiful Sastiel scene of, "Cas. Did you leave my soul behind-" Oh, no, sorry. "Cas. Did you bring me back soulless... [both] on purpose?"

G: Ah, love it! I love it!

C: So good. That's what makes them good in bed. [laughs] [G: Literally.] Yeah, I do wish that- I know the point of the whole 6.20 reveal is that it's a big old twist, but like, I just I wish I knew the details of whatever the fuck was going on with Cas now, so I could analyze his motivations better because I only know half-things.

G: Yeah, I mean, as I've been saying since the beginning of this damn season, it's such a brave season to do. After your blowout season that was supposed to be the end of the show, you're like, "We're gonna go in. We're gonna tell the audience nothing." [laughs] Sam is soulless? You're not going to find out until later. Cas is doing fuck-all shit and is collaborating with Crowley? Literally twentieth episode of the season. It's like, they literally did not give a fuck. And I commend that.

C: I agree.

G: I have to put some respect to it.

C: I think it's good plot stuff, and Sera Gamble probably knew that she was going to be disliked as a showrunner, and she would have to prove herself, and she still stuck to her guns on this.

G: Yeah. And I commend that. It's also just fascinating because they decide if a season's gonna continue not that late in the game, you know? And so if it's like 16 episodes through the season, the audience is still like, "This kind of sucks, man! We don't know anything, and the plot doesn't make sense," that's going to hit your ratings, and it's going to hit your chances of renewal. [C: Yeah.] I wonder if it was like, they were already given Season 6 and 7. Yeah, I'm not actually particularly clear on the renewal situation of Supernatural. But I mean, I think we generally do know for a fact that they were in danger in Season 7. People say that. If I may, I don't like, allegedly, Season 6 and 7, and I have said this for a long time, like, I don't like it. I think I do like that this writer who has been here the entire time- She's been here since Season 1, right? [C: Yeah.] Sera Gamble? I respect-

C: She Andreaversed.

G: Yeah. Oh my god! Should I just keep on using the word "respect"? [both laugh] Well, I commend that she decided that "The show that I entered is Season 1 of Supernatural, and I'm going to try to get it back to at least something akin to the groundedness of those seasons." And like, obviously, it's difficult to go back given what happened in Season 5, but I like that they're trying to make it more here, you know? It's here. It's happening here. And it does feel a lot less like Sam and Dean are pawns the way they were in Season 4 and 5. So yeah, I don't like- [C laughs] I still think I don't particularly enjoy it. And I definitely think that if you're watching it live, it's difficult. It's a difficult watch. Watching it live, not knowing what will happen next. But I commend the bravery of doing a show that's potentially bad and kinda is. [C laughing] Like, good on you. It's just- What I'm trying to say is, I see why this is the direction that is being taken by this particular showrunner who has been here this whole time, and I understand, and I commend the vision.

C: Yeah, yeah, agreed.

G: When Dean is like, "Wow, can't believe you got him back," Sam is like, "Oh, you know. It's because we're besties." [C laughing] And are they? That's what makes them good in bed.

C: Funny as hell. And I assume Cas doesn't contradict him. Cas isn't like, "Noo, Dean! He said he was gonna kill meee!"

G: What if he's like, "No, Dean. Sam's actually threatening to kill me. We still have the most profound bond. Don't worry about it!" [C laughs]

C: Yeah, but I think he isn't telling Dean because if he says, "I only came down for the Ark of the Covenant," Dean's gonna be pissed at him, too, and he needs at least one person on his side when Sam tries to kill him.

G: Yeah, good for him. Quick thinking on his part. [C laughs] Well Cas says that Crowley is hidden from him because he tries to summon him. Not summon, he tries to location spell him. So they're like, "Okay, fine. We have to actually investigate for real." So they go to Samuel's place, the one that we saw Dean in in the past, or the one he tried to sneak in in in the past. [laughs] "In in in the past." But Samuel shows up and is like, "Well, what the hell are you guys doing here?" And they say their intention, but Samuel's like, "No, I'm not gonna join you. I'm gonna keep Crowley safe." And Dean is confused because "We're your grandkids." [C laughs] [C: Stupid as fuck.] And Samuel says the most interesting thing later, where he's like, "What the fuck is that even supposed to mean?"

C: Yeah. For real.

G: "Like, who are you, really?" And I'm glad someone is brave enough to ask this question. [C laughs] I still hate Samuel to my core, but I'm glad he asked it. And Sam says like, "No, please help us because it's the only way to get my soul back." But Samuel keeps denying it. And Dean asks Cas to leave! He's like, "Excuse yourself," and Cas does.

C: He was mid-battle. Did Cas just go- I don't know. It's so wild to me that Cas spends any time down here.

G: Cas literally just turned on invisibility. He's still there. He's just like, "To make them comfortable, I've just become invisible." [C: Real.] But Dean tells Samuel, "You owe us an explanation!" etc etc. I was supposed to quote the movie, but I forgot the actual lines. No. Oh, it's a Filipino movie. [laughs] There's a Filipino movie where they're breaking up, and the guy goes, "I deserve an explanation. I deserve an acceptable reason!" and it's a very famous thing to say here. Anyway, he says that, exactly word-for-word. [C: So true.] The reason he gives is like, "You know, we're your family, and it's something Sam really needs. If you don't want to help us, fine. But I deserve an explanation and an acceptable reason for why you don't want to." [C: Real.] Truly mind-boggling thing happens next.

C: Did you not expect this? I was like, "This is what it is."

G: No, it's just so absurd. [both laugh] It's so absurd! He takes a picture of Mary as we know her from the flashbacks, and he's like, "You know, Crowley promised that he's going to drag Mary from Heaven [both laughing] onto Earth. He's gonna give her back to me."

C: "And also, I don't give a fuck about my wife."

G: No, he has a wife. That's a crazy one. [C: Yeah.] Has a wife. What is this? What is this? [C laughs]

C: I mean, literally the exact thing I expected Supernatural to pull. Of course.

G: An absurd thing he says is, "You know how to live without her. I don't." She's your child! Did you not have a life?

C: You had a lot of years.

G: Did you not have a life prior to having her? It's crazy! [C: Yeah.] I understand losing a child, blah blah blah, [C laughs] but to make it seem like, "Oh, you only lost your mother! I lost my child!" is an insane thing to say to your grandkids.

C: Yeah, I guess the point is that they had time to move on and he never did, but like, phrase it otherwise.

G: Dean can say, "Well, you had time with her, at least. You had twenty years or whatever, and I had zero." No, he had four. Well, Sam should butt in and go, "And I had zero, so Dean should shut the fuck up."

C: Yeah. "But also, I don't care right now." [both laugh]

G: Literally. He's just channeling a memory that he had. But anyway, it's just- it's like, you know, a whole thing. And Dean tells Samuel off specifically about wanting to bring back someone dead because he says like, "It's never gonna work out. And it's never- It's a wrong thing to do. And you have to learn from our experiences," etc. And he goes like, "Oh, this is like our Achilles heel. I didn't know it ran in the family." Which, I don't know. Every time they try to refer to Samuel as their family, it's just so annoying. [C laughs] Like, okay. He's your grandfather. Okay. Who give a shit?

C: Yeah. He also said, "We will figure something else out," so like, what do you mean by that? [both laugh]

G: She's literally in Heaven.

C: You just said that you shouldn't bring people back from the dead, right? What's the else you're gonna figure out?

G: He could also just kill himself. [C laughs] He already knows that Heaven exists.

C: Yeah, he was vibing there, but they're in separate rooms, I suppose.

G: Yeah, he's like, "Yeah, I mean, the thing is, when I die, my soulmate is my wife, so we're just gonna be together, anyway. So might as well just have Mary who gets pulled down here." [C: For real.] He doesn't listen to Dean, and we just end with Dean telling him off. So they head out

-

G: We get the scene where Cas is watching pornography. [C laughs] You know, I'm so uncomfortable saying the word "porn," but I love to say the word pornography. It really flows out of the mouth.

C: It is a good word.

G: Yeah, it is a good word. Cas is watching pornography, and it's on the TV, and it's a fascinating scene. I was like- Okay. So the situation is, he's watching in front of the TV. He has his little head tilt going on. And can I also say before this, every time Cas walks in this episode, and he's beside Sam and Dean, he looks so ridiculous. Like, he does genuinely look like he hasn't been in a body for a quote-unquote "year" or whatever. And it's so fun. But also, I think Misha Collins just not- I don't know what's up with him, but it's fun to see like on your screen. But anyway-

C: Are we seeing the beginnings of his need for hip replacements?

G: Does he really? Did he have a lot of hip replacements?

C: I think he had some sort of hip-related thing. I don't know. I remember there being jokes going around, at least.

G: Oh, yeah, I remember the jokes, but I don't know if they're based on a reality.

Sam and Dean are off doing their homework, and Cas is sitting in front of the table. He tilts his head. He goes, "It's very complex. If the pizza man truly loves this babysitter, why does he keep slapping her rear." [both laugh]

C: Iconic!

G: And then he goes, "Perhaps he's done something wrong."

C: Oh, he's insane! I love him!

G: Yeah, I do love to see it. I think they really push it a little bit later. I'm just like, "Oh, whatever." But I think- and the way Dean responds is also so fascinating.

C: No, I know. What was that?

G: So Dean goes, "You're watching porn. Like, why?" And Cas is like, "I mean, it's on the TV. It's what's in there." And then Dean goes, "You don't watch porn in a room full of dudes, and you don't talk about it." And then later-

C: And he goes, "Room full of dudes." So like, if it was women, it would be fine? What are you saying? Just that it's gay?

G: I mean, there are, I think, instances where  people watch porn together before having sex. So like, I think he's thinking like, "We're not about to have sex, [C laughs] so you shouldn't be watching."

C: Is that real? Is that what's going on, really?

G: People watching porn as like, foreplay? Yeah!

C: No, no, no, I'm saying, is that what Dean means? Because I don't know. Don't people talk about watching porn with their friends and just jacking off together as well?

G: I think some people just also jack off together as well. I mean, have you seen the Beatles? Everyone has seen the Beatles.

C: I don't think I've seen the Beatles. They were a little dead before my time, or not performing, at least.

G: Well, you have seen them in your mind's eye, I'm sure.

C: Jacking off together. Yeah, of course. [G laughs]

G: Yeah. And yeah,"You don't talk about it." You don't talk about porn? You definitely talk about porn. I don't know. Do you? Do you? I don't know.

C: Do I?

G: No, no, no, just in general. Like, "you," general. [C: Yeah.] You do. [C laughs]

C: I think you, general, does as well, but Dean doesn't, I guess.

G: Yeah, he doesn't. And then a truly- So Samuel comes in. He knocks first, and then they open the door.

C: Cas also has a boner. That's important.

G: Oh, yeah, yeah, he looks down, and he's like, "Huh?" And Dean's like, "Well, now he's got a boner." I can't believe he's horny in a room full of dudes! And then Samuel knocks, and Dean, instead of turning off his fucking television goes to open the door first. [C laughs] And then Samuel's like, "Oh, so like you guys are just watching pornos now with angels?"

C: And then Sam turns it off.

G: Yeah, Sam goes over to turn it off, but before that, Cas goes, "We're not supposed to talk about it." [C laughs] It's just a fascinating, fascinating exchange.

C: Yeah, I don't even know what to say about it. It's just- Yeah.

G: I also don't know.

C: It's so important, but I don't know why or how. [both laugh] Library of Congress, for real. Library of Sexual Congress, etc etc.

G: Yeah, and I do find it fascinating. He doesn't seem to have been watching full-on penetrative sex.

C: Right. It's the spanking right now.

C: It was like foreplay spanking or something.

C: Well, he could be doing the speaking while fucking her, I suppose.

G: Also, I mean, the line "If the pizza man truly loves the babysitter."

C: No, no. What were they saying earlier that implies that?

G: Or were they just having sex, and Cas was like, "They must be in love!"

C: Be in real, true love! Aw! [G laughs] [G: Anyway, yeah.] The "perhaps she's done something wrong" is very interesting to me, too. Just that like, under true love, corporal punishment purely because you think someone's done something wrong and you want to hurt them is fine.

G: No, yeah.

C: Shoutout to "Point of No Return," I guess!

G: What is "Point of No Return"? [laughs]

C: Where he beats Dean up in the alley? [G laughs]

G: So true.

C: Should I not be making that comparison? It does seem a bit trivializing.

G: No, no. I just did not expect you to make a Destiel joke, I suppose. [C: Oh.] You're still in my mind a Destiel hater, so.

C: I mean, I am. But the fact that I hate it doesn't [G: Mean it's not true?] stop the fact that it's real. [laughs]

G: Literally. And this is one of the horrible things of life.

C: Yeah, there are canon ships that I don't like, and Destiel is basically a canon ship that I don't like,

G: Yeah. And you basically don't like it.

C: Yeah. [laughs]

G: And also the fact that they end it with that bit, with Cas going "We're not supposed to talk about it" is also a little bit wild. But he does talk about it later. He goes, "I learned that from the pizza man."

C: Well, it's because the room wasn't full of dudes.

G: Well, it was full of two dudes.

C: Yeah, but I guess it wasn't purely dudes there.

G: Yeah. At what ratio [C laughs] of dude to not-dude do you need to have?

C: I think it's the opposite of whether you use the male or female ta in Chinese. I think one woman's presence automatically un-gays it.

G: It's how in Spanish, their they is like ellos the moment you have one singular man in there, yeah.

C: Yeah, but the opposite, yeah.

G: Yeah. Samuel was like, "You know what? I had a change of heart. So this is what Mary would want." And then he shows them the map of where Crowley is. He still tells them, "I wish you wouldn't do this," but Sam invites him, and he goes, "Nuh-uh! I'm not suicidal," is what he says. And so they head out to meet Meg's team.

-

C: She's outside, and she greets Cas. She goes, "Remember me? I sure remember you, [both] Clarence." Agh!

G: I I would say, Meg, I commend and respect the nickname game. [C: Yeah.] It's very fun. I have not even actually seen It's a Wonderful Life.

C: Nor I.

G: Yeah. [laughs] Do you remember that description that was like- What's his name? What's the name of the guy in It's a Terrible Life?

C: It's a Terrible Life or It's a Wonderful Life?

G: It's a Wonderful Life. That one description that's like, "He's having such a horrible time. He's going to kill himself, [C laughing] and it's Christmas!" And that's so important.

C: God, that is so funny.

G: "George Bailey has so many problems he is thinking about ending it all. And it's Christmas!" [both laughing] Oh, I love it.

C: Cas immediately goes, "Why are we working with these abominations?" Hope for Sastiel and Megstiel here? And yeah, she just goes, "That's hot," etc. And they just talk for a bit and solidify the plan. Meg's gonna go here to kill Crowley. Sam and Dean are gonna go with her. And Sam says that she needs to give him back Ruby's demon knife, which I forgot that she has. And he uses it to kill that demon who apparently hated them so bad but nobody could tell. And Sam says that it's because he was gonna fuck up the mission because he hated them too much, and then he keeps the knife, and Meg doesn't like this, but just keeps on trucking.

So Dean's about to head out, and he's talking to Cas. And he says, "You know, Cas, you could help." Cas is so busy! Cas is so busy. Why is he even- Yeah, okay, whatever. I don't understand why he's here.

G: Dean's like, "Cas, you can go co-host in my podcast." [laughs]

C: Literally, literally. But yeah, he's not helping with packing.

G: Would Team Free Will be podcasters? An important question. Everyone seems to be a podcaster these days, allegedly. People say that a lot, so probably.

C: Sure. Why not? I mean, you know who would be podcasters? The Ghostfacers.

G: I mean, I assume they already are. [C: For real.] I assume they have a podcast that has been abandoned for seven years, perhaps.

C: I believe it. And Cas says, "I'm ambivalent about what we're attempting" because he thinks that if they take Sam's soul back, Sam will just straight up die because his soul's been-

G: No, he says, "Or worse."

C: Or worse, he won't die, but he'll be so so upset. He'll be thinking about ending it all, and it's Christmas! [both laugh] [G: Yeah.] So yeah, Sam's soul has been tortured by Michael and Lucifer for over a year, he could be in so horrible psychic pain, etc. And Dean's like, "But he could also be fine?" [G laughs] And Cas is like, "No, but sure, if you say so." And Dean's like, "Well, if he's not fine, then you fix him." And Cas is like, "I don't think I can." And Dean's just like, "I don't give a fuck about that. It's gonna happen, and you're gonna fix him, and we need his soul back because I hate him right now!" And Cas goes, "Of course. Or we fail, and Sam suffers horrifically." Pretty funny 'cause the whole time, Dean's being like a total asshole from like what he knows, but actually, [laughs] Cas is responsible for much of this. [G: Literally.] So yeah, he probably does feel bad for real, or should feel bad for real. But also, if he didn't do anything, both Sam's, I don't know, body and soul would be down there, so like, honestly, whatever. Cas did the best he could.

G: Also, it is hilarious the way they make you aware that Sam is listening in, where Dean heads off, and then there's an ominous figure in the back, and it slowly, slowly focuses on hi, and it's Sam doing a Kubrick stare. [C: So true.]

-

G: They head out, Meg only. Her other demons are not there anymore. Sam, Dean, and Cas, they're like walking through hallways and stuff, and eventually, they see somebody in a cage, I think.

C: Yeah, apparently it's the djinn from 6.01 who was the waitress who gave Dean her number? [G: Oh!] I didn't know that, but the transcript says so.

G: Oh, interesting! But anyway, they end up in a hallway when they suddenly hear some noise, and they realize that these are hellhounds, so they end up in a room to hide themselves, and they have a salt line and everything, but when they're inside they're like, "Okay, well, we're trapped in this room. What now?" And Meg goes like, "Okay, well, there's so many hellhounds, and they're all gonna kill us, so what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna fucking get out of here." [C laughs] And so she tries to leave her body, and then it doesn't work. Just doesn't work, straight up. And I will admit, she does look so good in this scene. [C laughs] She looks amazing. And by amazing, I mean incredibly hot. [C: Yeah.] And the way the camera pans up in preparation for the smoke and then stops there, and it's just her with her mouth open. Well, whatever. [both laughing] Anyway. Apparently, it's like a Crowley spell or something. That's what they say, right?

C: Yeah. Cas is like, "I don't know why, but just for some reason, I feel like maybe Crowley - who I don't know - put a spell in this area so that demons can't leave their bodies. Weird!"

G: Sam takes the knife out and then he tells Meg, "You can see them, right? You have the knife." What happens? Meg tells him like, "No, you take the knife. I have my own thing." And what she does is she grabs Cas, then pushes him up against the wall, and then they start kissing, and she sneaks her hand into his coat, and then Cas flips her over and they kiss some more, and Sam and Dean are watching in the background, but mostly Dean. We only get Dean reaction. Is that true? Do we get a Sam reaction?

C: No, we get a shot.

G: We get one, yeah? Anyway, Meg's like, "Wow! What the hell? Guess again" or whatever. She doesn't say that. And Cas says, "I learned it from the pizza man."

C: Meg says that she feels "so clean." Also, when she was reaching into Cas's coat, she was taking his angel blade.

G: I said that.

C: You said that she put his her hand inside his coat, and then he flipped her over.

G: Oh, sorry. Well, yeah, it was to take the angel blade, and now she has it.

Dean's like, "Is that gonna work?" And she's like, "Let's find out, baby." And they head out.

C: Yeah. Megstiel kiss, scene of all time to me. But.

G: Do they have another kissing scene?

C: I don't think so. They had the almost in the episode where she does kill Ellen and Jo, and then they're maybe gonna fuck in Season 8, but then she dies! [G: RIP.] RIP. So yeah, I don't know. I think- Okay, with the "I learned that from the pizza man." And then, later on, Cas was like, "What do you mean you would have let me had an hour with her? For what?" [laughs] Like, fascinating things going on in Castiel sexuality studies right now. [G laughs]

G: Yeah. What what do you have to say about it?

C: I mean, okay. Like Meg, you know, historically weaponizes her sexuality in order to get what she wants. And this is the only case where she's seen somebody respond-

G: Someone take her seriously.

C: Yeah, well take her seriously and also respond in a way where they're both on equal footing about it, I guess. She doesn't end up like, "the winner." She in fact ends up feeling "clean." His angelness or whatever has permeated into her physically or whatever. And I don't know. I think that that is interesting, and it's the fact that it seemingly only works because Cas isn't into it? Or I don't even know what I mean by that. But like, I don't know. I feel like I think it's like Cas isn't engaging in it the way other characters have because of- I don't know what I mean. Do you know what I mean? He has a different relationship to sex than these other characters do. So he's responding to something that was sort of intended as a weaponized sexuality/maybe assault situation differently as a result, in a way where he has quote-unquote "won." Does that make sense?

G: Yeah, I suppose. I feel like there's more to it.

C: I think I think there is too, but I just don't know what it is.

G: I think it's the fact that this she has been using this to assert power, and in this moment, it's not that she's powerless, but she's taken aback, and that is like, something. Because the point of it is the predictability on her part-

C: Yeah, that it'll work how she expects it to, and it doesn't. Something surprising occurs.

G: And I think it works because Cas- you know, I don't think it works because Cas is an angel because we've met other angels, and I don't think it will work on them this way. So I guess it works because it's Cas, and they are really pushing with the "clueless about humanity" thing with him, which they don't push with other angels, definitely not.

C: Yeah, whatever. Shoutout to the post that says that Meg probably just thought that Cas was into guys starting from this episode, and that he made out with a real pizza man, so true.

-

C: They start heading further into the building, and then Cas gets fucking sigiled away by Samuel.

G: Who has betrayed them!

C: Dean's so upset that Samuel betrayed them. And then Crowley shows up and says, "Hiii. I'm gonna kill both of you." I do wonder how the Cas-Crowley team up works here. Was he gonna kill them for real? They probably would have died for real in the situations they were put in.

G: Do you wanna know? Do you wanna know for real or?

C: Oh, sure.

G: Crowley kind of spares Sam and Dean pretty much only by Cas's vehement, "No, you have to!" about it, but generally, he's like, "Oh, we should just kill them." [C: Real.] So like at this point, I think he was like, "Yeah, no, we're going to kill them for real" because Cas is not around to tell him off about it.

C: Sam and Dean get put in separate little jail cells where we saw other monsters being held by Crowley before. Meg kills all the hellhounds, so the angel blade does work, but then the demon possessing Christian gets her

G: Oh, that's Christian! You're right!

C: Yeah, so true. Samuel shows up to talk to Dean, and only Dean. [laughs]

G: He literally DGAF about Sam. That's his buddy!

C: Yeah, they were hunting together for a year! They seemed like they were pals.

G: I guess he was like, "Well, Sam's soulless. Who GAF?"

C: I guess. Not nice!

G: Not niceys.

C: And Dean's just like, "I hate you. You're a liar. You don't even put blood first, unlike my dad!" And Samuel says, "Mary is like my straight-up daughter, dude." [laughing] And then he says that Dean sold out Mary by- What? Not taking her down from the ceiling when he was four? [laughing]

G: No, literally- [laughing] That was also my first instinct. I was like, "Oh. What?" But I think what he's trying to say here is that "You traded Mary's soul for Sam," which is factally untrue, because Mary, I reiterate, is in Heaven, and Sam's soul, I reiterate, is in the cage with Lucifer. So.

C: [laughing] Real. Okay, that makes more sense. I was shocked at this one.

G: I was also. [both laughing] Yeah, "It was her or Sam, and you chose Sam." Crazy! I was actually trying to do the calculation in my head when this scene was happening on my screen. I was like, "Wait. So like, is he saying that when Dean grabs Sam out of the burning house, he should have grabbed Mary instead?" [C laughs] That's kind of an insane thing to say. But no, he's saying an even more insane thing to say.

C: No, I think the other thing's more insane. I think this one makes sense. You're going against Crowley because you care about getting Sam's soul back more than Mary coming back.

G: No, but "You sold out your own mother"? She doesn't even want to be here. Does she want to be here?

C: I don't know if- I mean, if he's heard about Heaven kind of sucking from Sam or Dean at this point-

G: He knows that.

C: - he could just assume. Yeah, he was there also.

Dean's like, "I can't believe you chose demon over your grandsons," and Samuel says, "I don't even know what Sam is. I'm not gonna protect him. And you? You're a stranger. No, really, tell me. What exactly are you supposed to be to me?" Kind of a giant slay and so correct.

G: Yeah. Well, because it's coming from someone who just said an completely unreasonable thing. It's like, "What?"

C: True. True. Not the best candidate for this line, I suppose.

G: I do love Dean's reply. Love it.

C: Do you? I think that he's a silly man.

G: I love that he says that "I'm the guy you never want to see again [C: So true.] because when I make it out of here, the next time you see me, I'll be there to kill you." He's really going at it. And Samuel- honestly, a little bit scared, goes like, "Don't think there's gonna be a next time." And Dean goes, "Whatever gets you through the night," which I did enjoy a little bit. A fun little threatening situation against your grandfather. Let's go.

C: Yeah, I do think that it's fun in terms of seeing how Dean has completely let go of the "we're your family idea" now. There's a few scenes that are intercut. Sam, Dean, and Meg are all being put through situations. [G: Yeah.] So Dean's situation is that he's taken to a room with two ghouls who are hungy. They're trying to eat him, and he's weaponless. Meanwhile, Sam is preparing for demons to come into his cell by biting into its arm at the wrist really really really hard until it bleeds, and then later, when two demons come into his room, they step in, they realize they can't move, and they realize that Sam Winchester is so tall that he was able to paint an entire devil's trap on the ceiling, using just his arm blood. [laughs] [G: Love it!] And at this, he grins, and you see the blood in his teeth, and it's so wonderful! And yeah, he manages to get into Dean's room and kill the ghouls.

Meanwhile, Meg's situation is that she is, of course, on the fucking boobstrap table. You may remember the boobstrap table from- I don't know. Every other time a woman got tortured in Supernatural? Did a woman ever get tortured normally in Supernatural? She could have just been chained up like the alpha shapeshifter in the beginning scene. The alpha shapeshifter should have been on the boobstrap table. Christian is torturing her with a knife. Meg is trying to stay stoic, and she's trying to make sex jokes at Christian to again, you know, assert control over the situation and all of that, but it is not working, especially because Christian is responding in turn. We learn that Meg's body is a girl from Cheboygan who moved to LA to be an actress, and I guess it's implied that while she was there, she was raped or went through some sort of similar violence. He's trying to- I don't. What is he even trying to get out of her? He says that Crowley "wants to know everything." Like what, though?

G: No, I don't actually know the purpose of this scene.

C: Yeah, nor I. Who knows? They just love the boobstrap table so much. She's being tortured, and then she starts laughing really hard, and then Dean stabs Christian, or his body, from behind, thus fully, 100%, for sure killing his cousin. [G laughing]

G: Love it!

C: "If Samuel's not my family, then neither is Christian"? What's the reasoning here?

G: I don't know. I mean, to be fair, I didn't recognize him as Christian. Number two, I don't understand the purpose of this scene like at all, the entirety of it.

C: Yeah. It existed, and it happened. Dean unties Meg, and they head out. There's a brief scene where Crowley is about to torture Brigitta, the djinn from earlier in the season, and we're supposed to feel bad for her, and I don't know why we're supposed to feel bad for her but not any of the other monsters like. Didn't she kill Dean's best friend who he just let go? His neighbor? Is it- she's a woman, and they need Crowley to look bad? Why this?

G: I mean, I also don't know. And it's also just so weird because Crowley has been, you know, up against alphas and stuff, and that's all we've been up against this whole time. [C: Right.] And then suddenly, the pivotal moment is him going, "Oh, so how about you tell me what your boss is up to?" [laughs] Like, what? What is this about?

C: I don't know. And he's also being menacing in like a sexual harassment-y way just in keeping with the themes and motifs of the episode, and also just I guess how he is as a character as well. But yeah, whatever. Somehow, this is a scene that exists. And then, while he's trying to menace her, a fire alarm goes off.

-

G: And so he heads out. It's, you know, Dean sounding the alarm. Meg tries to starts torturing him. Sam asks for what he wants. And this is the part where Sam's like, "I need my soul back," and Meg is like, "Oh! You lost it! What a cool situation!" And Crowley first starts going, "No." but then he goes, after some more pain, that he can't because he just can't do it. And he says, "I was lucky to get this much of you out." I love a cover-up. [C laughs] He says, "Michael-" they always point out that like it's both Lucifer and Michael, and at some point, somebody says that Sam is their only plaything in there. And I'm like, Adam is also literally there. [C laughs] [C: He is.] But okay. Crowley says, "And also, I don't know why you want it back. It's going to, you know, leave you a drooling mess" is what he says. Meg goes like, "Yeah, he's probably right." [both laugh] But Sam has given up, and Dean insists, but Sam has given up. And so now it's Meg's turn, and she wants to kill Crowley, so she heads into the Devil's Trap and then tries to stab Crowley, but then Crowley flicks her against a wall or something.

C: No, I think he just flips her.

G: And then he breaks the Devil's Trap with the knife by flicking it up against it. Very fun. And then Sam and Dean are now against the wall, and then this is all happening, he's trying to give a speech, but then Cas appears by the door, [C laughing] looing all heroic! And he's carrying a little bag, a little sack, even. And he's like, "Leave them alone." [C laughs] He's really putting on the drama, the drama of it all.

C: Obsessed with this guy.

G: And Crowley goes like, "Haven't seen you all season," which is very fun. Yeah, Cas says, like, "This is what I'm gonna do to you if you don't put the knife down." He lifts up a skull, and Crowley's like, "Oh, it's not possible that you have my bones." Cas is like, "No, you should have hidden them better."

C: Don't we literally know where they are? [laughs] Didn't we just go to where they were?

G: No, Crowley got them, put them in a bag, and then hid them.

C: Okay, wait. So when Sam and Dean were- Like, after "Weekend at Bobby's," he took the bones out?

G: That episode ends with Crowley taking the bones. [C: Oh, okay.] Anyway, there is this very banger scene where Cas goes like, "So can you restore Sam's soul or not?" And Crowley goes, "No, I can't." And Cas, with no hesitation, incinerates quote-unquote "Crowley's bones."

C: [laughs] He's so funny.

G: Yeah. And Meg also disappears instantly. And this is when Dean goes, "Oh, she's smart! Well, I would have given you an hour with her before I killed her." And Cas is like, "Why? Why would I want that?"

C: Yeah. Well, first, extremely gross sentence from Dean. Secondly, love Castiel sexuality studies.

-

C: They're outside of the prison, and Dean's like, "Cas, you're so cool! Thank you! And if there's anything we can do to help you, now that you helped me, I actually care about you for a little while until I'm mad at you again for not helping me!" [G: Yeah.] And Cas says, "There's nothing you can do to help me. I wish circumstances were different. Much of the time, I'd rather be here." Heaven must suck! [laughs] [G: Literally.] It must be so bad. I don't know. He's being very sad and gay in that line, though. It's sweet.

G: He has a very sad, forlorn face. He looks up longingly. It's a whole thing.

C: Yeah. And Dean's just like, "Cas, no, it's okay. I get it! You're going through soo much, and you're soo brave and soo strong. [G laughs] And we're your breasties!" [both laugh]

G: No, literally.

C: He says all of that, exactly like that, and Cas tells Sam that "We'll find another way." Incredibly funny. [G: Yeah.] Yeah. And then Sam just says, "I hate you! I hate you! I hate you! I don't care! If you actually wanted to help, you would go back and kill every single monster in Crowley's prison." And Cas goes, "Okay." And then he does?

G: And then he disappears!

C: Yeah. He disappears to go there, to do it, I assume.

G: Yeah, no, I think what I understand here is he was like, "I'm gonna help you, Sam." And Sam's like, "You know how you can help? This way." And he's like, "Okay, nevermind." And then he leaves. And that's important as well.

C: Oh! I-

G: No, I'm just joking. Obviously, he went there and slayed the monsters.

C: Okay, yeah. Sorry to all of those people in that prison. Did he even, though? Like, did he go over, Crowley was there, and he was like, "Hi, good job on the community theater, Cas!" And Cas goes, "Oh my god, thanks! You really think I did a good job?"

G: No, definitely, that happened.

C: "Sam told me to kill all these monsters that you're torturing," and Crowley's like, "Well, can you not?" And Cas is like, "Yeah! Of course I wouldn't do that to you!" And then he left?

G: Yeah, exactly. That's exactly what happened.

C: Well, good for them. And Dean's like, "Hey, whatever, you know, Sam? Buck up. We'll get your soul!" And Sam says, "No, I don't want it! Everyone says it's gonna kill me, so I don't want it!" And Dean's very, very upset, and he goes, "You don't even know what you're saying." And Sam goes, "No, I'm saying something you don't like." Slay! He's like, "You care. A lot. But I think I'm better off without it, maybe." [G: Literally.] And Dean goes, "You don't know how wrong you are!" And then Sam starts walking away, and Dean yells after him.

G: It is hilarious to me that this does end with a walk away. [C: Yeah.] And the shot is hilarious, too. It's like Sam walking away, and then half of the frame is like, Dean behind him going, "Sam!" [both laugh] It's kind of important.

C: Pretty important. Yeah. Well, that was the episode. What do we think?

G: Don't like it! Boring, corny, tired, played out, etc.

C: Yeah, if you say so. I think it had its strengths. It had its weaknesses. I had fun for a lot of it.

G: Best Line/Worst Line. [C: Ooh.] I forgot we did this

C: That we do Best Line/Worst Line in general? I mean, the "Will you, boy?" scene is iconic. I don't know if it's my best line, but it is iconic.

G: I would say my best line is- I don't know, actually. I have no idea. I suppose I really did like that, "Will you, boy? How?" scene, but Sam's lines. I like that he has a- that "I don't give a fuck that you're an angel" vibe that he has going is so fun. So I suppose I choose the line- Wait, I'm gonna look it up. "I'm sorry. Do you think we're here to talk this out?" [both laugh] Love that! [C: Love it.] I love that. He was like, "I came here for a purpose. You and I are not gonna discuss it. You're just gonna do it." And that's what makes them good in bed.

C: So true. I think I also like when Sam goes, "It's what I would have done." about Crowley hunting down Lucifer loyalists.

G: What's your worst line? What is a Samuel line that I can assign worst line? [C laughs] I think, honestly, the Samuel line where he goes, "You know how to live without her. I don't." is crazy. I'm gonna choose that as my worst line.

C: Yeah, I think Samuel's whole "You sold out Mary's soul for Sam's" thing was also a silly, stupid thing. Oh, we didn't even mention that when Meg was gonna kill Crowley, she said, "This is for Lucifer, you pompous little-" and then Crowley beats her up. [G: Aw, yeah.] Whatever. It's not that important. It's important to me!

Alright, spread those sheets. I think misogyny exists within the world of the boobstrap table.

G: Yes, it does.

C: Why was it happening? What was it for?

G: I would say, actually, the misogyny, I would place it high because of the fundamental characterization of Meg. [C: Mm-hm.] Also- you know what? This is not about the misogyny, racism, homophobia, but like-

C: Okay, is it about the heterosexual or the nonbinary?

G: I mean, yeah, it is, definitely. But it's just, I do think there is also so much incompetence in the writing of Samuel. It's such an incompetent way to have this character be. When he whipped out Mary, the Mary photo, I was kind of like, "Wow! What an absurd thing to do," but also, as you said you could see it from a mile away. Because what else does this character have? Literally nothing. [C: Yeah.] Nothing. And it's just, you know, it's like, I'm like, "Oh, yeah, they also didn't write him well," so we can add that to nothing [C: So true.] 'cause it's not misogynistic, racist, or homophobic.

C: Yeah. So when you say high, are you going like, 3 [G: Yes.] or higher? 3. 3 sounds right to me. Racism, we did have a few Black demons in this episode, I don't know if- was there? I feel like they're- yeah. I don't know. The one who calls them a little bitch at the beginning is Black, but I don't if that really counts inherently as anything.

G: I don't personally think so.

C: Yeah, I don't personally think so. Was there anything else? Not that I recall.

G: Not really, not particularly.

C: Yeah.

G: Homophobia. Dude, you can't watch porn in a room [both] full of dudes. I don't think that's homophobic. I think that's heterophobic. [C laughs]

C: Is it?

G: [laughs] Yeah! [C: So true.] The only reason why you would not watch porn with your straight friends is because of heterophobia.

C: Yeah, okay, I don't know, something's going on with Cas sexuality studies this episode.

G: Something is going on, but I don't think it's homophobia.

C: Yeah, I think we're supposed to laugh at him being clueless about how men are supposed to be. [G: Mm.] But yeah, I don't know. Let's just zero it, I suppose.

G: Yeah.

C: And when the pizza man montage happens, we'll give that episode negative ten homophobia.

G: No, that was fighting for Grey rights. [C: Yeah.] And I did say "gay" like "Grey."

C: Yeah. It was. I am that Db. When you say "I am that Db," is that Dean Binchester? Decibels? What's the Db? Actually, also, what does IMDb stand for?

G: International movie database.

C: That is probably true.

G: No, let's look it up.

C: It's internet movie database. You almost got it.

G: Yeah. 6.10 is me. I'm even. So this is, I would assume, a beloved episode in the stats thing because it's revealing stuff and doing things, and Meg is here, which is a recurring character, and Crowley and Cas are both here, and also, we have cemented the Samuel falling out, so the next time we see him, we're gonna kill him, which is important. [C laughs]

C: I don't think Dean actually does that, does he?

G: No, I don't think so. [both laugh] But we have established that we this is not a guy that we have have to, you know, put in any effort into liking. I would give this an 8.4.

C: Okay. You did all the talk about how it's rated highly, and then you only gave it 0.1 above "Clap Your Hands If You Believe"?

G: Yeah, I don't believe that it's that highly rated. Maybe it is. It's your chance, Crystal. You're lagging behind.

C: Ah! Whatever. 8.3. I hate my life. No, wait! No, whatever. Let's just do it. Okay.

G: You're not lagging behind, are you?

C: Yes, I am.

G: Oh, you are! By not that much. That's impressive.

C: What. What's the answer? I guessed 8.3, and I'm wrong, and I'm stupid.

G: Yeah! It's 8.5! [C groans] All of the photos are of Meg, and that's kind of important. [laughs]

C: Yeah, I understand this.

G: This one says, "Cas is at the top of his comedic game." Is he?

C: But is he?

G: This one says it helps focus the season because Season 6 is so " wildly uneven" and it's a "structural mess." And so this one is like, a very focused episode. This is so scary! I was like, "Oh my god! Did they know?" Because "One of the outstanding episodes of Season 6. Angels and demons working together, oh my!" And I was like, "Oh my god, they're like- this is like-"

C: They were talking about Meg.

G: Yeah, "Did we not watch like a Crowley and Cas scene at the end that was so important, and we missed it completely?" But no, it's about Meg.

Well, that’s it for this episode of Busty Asian Beauties. Next week, we will be discussing Season 6, Episode 11: "Appointment in Samarra." Leave us a rating or a review wherever you get your podcasts.

C: Someone in the reviews is asking why soulless Sam wouldn't be going after demon blood to drink it.

G: That's an interesting question. I suppose there is an aspect of the dependence that is emotional.

C: Yeah, maybe. Or like, now that he's Mr. Logic And Reason, he feels that it's actually not in his best interest?

G: Yeah. [C: Yeah.] I mean, the thing is, he does get powers from it, for real. [C: Yeah, yeah.] Or is that true?

C: It's true. He did get powers for real from the demon blood, yeah.

G: Yeah. But also now, he doesn't-

C: Except for that "You never needed the feather to fly, Dumbo" line, which I don't understand.

G: Yeah, but in Season 5, he still had to drink it, so who knows?

C: Yeah. And he used it to torture Alastair, right? And then kill him? So like, if they're- yeah, yeah. I don't know. Yeah, whatever the objections to drinking demon blood are are not within the soul. Or they are within the soul, but then there's other ones- the soul has reasons for and against, and without the soul, Sam has neither. [G: Yeah.] Yeah, okay. Well, follow us on social media! We are on Tumblr at bustyasianbeautiespod.tumblr.com. Our official tag is #BABPod, B-A-B-POD. Thanks to everyone who's donated to our Ko-Fi at ko-fi.com/bustyasianbeautiespod, which is where our outtakes live, and check out our merch at babpod.redbubble.com.

G: You can email us any feedback, comments, or inquiries at bustyasianbeautiespod@gmail.com. See you guys next time! [both] Bye!

[guitar music]

[bustyasianbeautiespod]

Good in Bed - s6 Sam/Castiel

for the “sam and cas were fuckbuddies during season 6” truthers out there (youtube)

[bustyasianbeautiespod]

Episode 114: Deus Ex Machina That Doesn't Work

Today, Crystal & Grey discuss Supernatural 6.10 - Caged Heat. We talk about: the beginnings of the Pizza Man cold open, commending a show for having the bravery to kinda suck, and George Bailey has so many problems he is thinking about ending it all - and it's Christmas!

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Transcript

[bustyasianbeautiespod]

Episode 113 Transcript: Queerbaiting is Only an Offshoot of Straightbaiting

[intro guitar music]

G: Hello, it's Grey.

C: Hello, it's Crystal.

G: And this is Busty Asian Beauties, a Supernatural commentary podcast where I, someone who has seen this show many times...

C: And I, someone who only knows the show through social media, discuss every single episode of Supernatural from start to finish. Also, we are both Asian.

G: Both Asian! For today's episode, we are watching Season 6, Episode 9: "Clap Your Hands If You Believe," famously written by Ben Edlund [C: God.], directed by John Showalter. [C: Well.] Did we have women this episode that Ben Edlund was weird about? [C: Um...] I have completely forgotten this episode. Full disclosure, [both] we watched it a week ago. Yeah. And it was fine. Was it fine?

C: Patchouli was there. That was a woman.

G: Who is? Oh yeah.

C: The hippie girl whose name I don't know.

G: Yeah. She didn't smell that bad, as Sam Winchester said.

C: There were gay people who were never on screen that Ben Edlund was weird about. I think that was the main thing this episode.

G: Yeah, it was the homophobia, the ableism, "we don't even know what kind of hate crime this is."

C: Yeah. Yeah. [laughs]

G: He was trying to be like, "Haha! Wouldn't it be so funny if it was a hate crime?"

C: Yeah. "Wouldn't it be so funny if Dean Winchester was homophobic and ableist?" And it's like, he is homophobic and ableist! [G laughs] What are you talking about?

G: Well, and it's not funnay! [C laughs] This episode was pretty fun, though, sometimes.

C: Sometimes.

G: Sometimes it was just normal. To bad! Normal to bad.

C: Yeah, yeah. It's true.

G: But okay. This is a famous episode. Why is it famous?

C: 'Cause of the homophobia.

G: Is that it? Are you sure? I'm asking because-

C: Because soulless Sam is iconic in it.

G: That's true. That is probably the reason why. Soulless Sam. And I'm sure there's a lot of crossover between X-Files and Supernatural fans, and so the intro to this episode must have been a fun thing! You know, it's a fun thing. It's memorable. Also, they put Misha Collins in there, and Castiel is literally not here. [C: Not in this episode.] Unbelievable. Why would they lie to us like this?

C: They were just calling him gay. That's the point of putting him in the credits. [laughs]

G: Sure. Why not? [C: Why not?] I mean, I do think it's fun that they have- Does Sam believe in aliens? Sam is the alien believer, I would say.

C: Yeah, well, we should check "Tall Tales."

G: Or did they both not believe in aliens? Well, Sam believed in aliens for a while, and Dean also did, I suppose, this episode. Honestly, I loved the bit about this episode where the reason why Dean was experiencing all those horrors was because he was the [both] first-born son. Like, loved it. Loved it.

C: Sam and Dean both express that they don't think aliens are real in "Tall Tales."

G: That's true. So Cas is the alien. [laughs] That is the point of the introduction. [C: Yeah.] We're like, "We have two guys who don't believe in aliens and some guy who's an alien!" And that's so important. [C: Good for him.] It is so wonderful that Cas is an alien. Isn't that so nice? [C: Yeah.] Or does he not count?

C: I mean, is Heaven another planet? It's not.

G: I think it's extraterrestrial. It's out of this world.

C: It's only for people who die on Earth, though.

G: Yeah, but like, angels don't necessarily have to have been on Earth. [C: Right.] So therefore they are extraterrestrial. If people went to Mars, would you be like, “Oh, and this creature from Mars is not an alien anymore because people from Earth are in Mars”? You know.

C: But Heaven was created specifically for dead people, wasn't it?

G: How do you know that? How do you know that? We don't know that.

C: Is it not just an extension of Earth?

G: Is it really?

C: I sort of view it that way.

G: I don't think that's true. Or is it? A wonderful question. What did you know about this episode before going in?

C: Dean yells “fight the fairies!” and gets taken in by a cop for homophobia. He also gets abducted by aliens, but they are fairies.

G: What's crazy is I thought that was because of homophobia because I know of the hashtag. [C: Yeah.] I never really remembered that-

C: That he beat a guy up first.

G: - he beat a guy up for it, and that is- and the guy’s a little person, and that's why the cop goes like, “I don't even know what kind of hate crime this is.” That part of it was erased in my mind. Unbelievable. Because of that damn hashtag [laughs] that trended because it was homophobic.

C: Sam talks to a woman whose name we don't get but who Dean calls Patchouli and says that his brother got kidnapped once, but he's over it, and she goes, “Did it happen when you were a child?” And he says, “No, like 30 minutes ago,” and then he sleeps with her, and Dean says, “What the hell? While I was kidnapped?” and Sam goes, “Well, I did all I could to try to get you back. What did you want me to do? Just sit in the dark and feel bad?” And Dean goes, “Yeah!” That's what I knew about this episode.

G: Yeah. Well, what I knew about this episode was that, you know, I didn't know what the quote-unquote “monster” was. I truly didn't.

C: What? Why do you think Dean was saying that?

G: I mean, I don't know. Okay, here's what I thought was gonna happen. It was gonna be aliens, but it's not aliens. It was gonna be fairies, but it's not fairies. And then it's something else. That's what I thought. [C: Okay.] But I thought it was also a red herring, the fairies. But they were not red herrings. They were real as hell. I thought it was a completely other episode, the counting sugar, because that one, I remember vividly, Sam ripping open the sugar packet and the monster of the week bending down to get to count it.

C: Sam going, “Why didn't I just do this in the first place?” [laughs]

G: And he was so real. Anyway, so that's what my shoddy memory did for me this episode. And now let's begin.

-

G: So for the “Then” sequence, actually, I have something to point out, which is that they butcher the speech Sam gives at the end of last episode, I feel, a little bit. Because for the “Then” sequence, they make it seem like he's just saying, “I don't care about you. I don't care about Lisa and Ben.” Like, [laughs] they remove the comedic aspects of it, and so the blow is that much more stronger. And then also, they cut it in a way where Sam isn't really explaining himself. It's important to me and to the Supernatural universe that that statement ends with like, “That's why I want to get my soul back,” you know? But of course, it's cut for purposes to make Sam seem ominous and etc etc. How dare they? How dare they do this to my beloved Sam Winchester? But it's fine. He's hilarious this episode.

G: He's really funny this episode. But again, in a way that seems over the top. [G: Yes!] Ben Edlund just went really hard in the "he's completely mean and doesn't think about anything." Like, he was able to feign social skills in the past, and there's no reason for him to have stopped now for this case.

G: Yeah. And with Dean specifically, I think the argument that they were trying to make was he was being fake with Dean, and now he's being for real, but they're making it seem like he doesn't understand when it's very clear from past episodes that he does understand, or a lot of the times, he gets why he shouldn't say that, he gets why he should do this instead. But the way he would talk to Dean was like, “No, Dean. Explain to me why," etc etc etc. And it's like, I don't think that he would have done that. [C: Yeah.] I do feel they exaggerate it to make it funny. [C: Mm-hm.] Unfortunately, it is hilarious. [laughs]

C: It's pretty funny.

G: Yeah,. So we start the episode in a lover’s lane situation, but instead of smooching in the car, they're literally on the ground. They're in a cornfield, right? [C: Yeah.] And then there's like some sound, some ominous shadows passing by, and the guy is like, “Well, what the fuck is this?” So he gets up, he heads into the hedge. There's like a giant, giant fucking light, a la how we think alien abductions are supposed to look like. And he gets abducted. And we get the splash screen, which is not simply a splash screen but an X-Files credits roll. That's very fun. [C: It is fun.] I do wonder why Supernatural does not have that. It just has a splash screen. What was the choice that was made in the- is it the writers room? Is it the production team? that was like, “We're not going to do a credits roll at the beginning.”

C: I think it's just more impactful for horror for there to be sort of a jumpscare splash screen, and then go back. [G: That's probably true.] Don't give people time to calm down between the cold open and the rest.

G: Yeah, I suppose so.

C: For mysteries, you want it to be long for people to go, “Hmm! I wonder what's happening.”

G: Yeah, that's true, because what I was thinking about was House M.D. has a pretty long intro.

C: Yeah, but they never, ever change, [laughs] even though those people are barely characters in later seasons.

G: They change- well, they change the music for it at some point.

C: Yeah, but it's still like, Cameron, Chase, Foreman. Like, only Foreman's still here.

G: Is that true? I think they change it. They don't?

C: I don't know. I'm sure there's different credits versions in different platforms.

G: My friend, who has been watching House M.D., is now at the part where Taub is a friend who is your enemy, [laughs] and that's so important! I think everyone should have a post-antagonistic relationship with Dr. Taub.

C: Yeah, I mean, he deeply sucks, but it was really funny of him to have two babies at the same time.

G: Yeah. [laughs] Literally.

C: Not as twins, because he was cheating on his wife with a nurse?

G: I don't even remember.

C: It was his ex-wife, but he was still sleeping with her?

G: And that's important. Divorce is the most romantic thing in the world.

C: It is. The X-Files credits say “Created by Eric Kripke,” and there's no Sera Gamble shout-out at all! which feels mean.

G: Yeah, I mean, it was created by Eric Kripke.

C: It was created by Eric Kripke.

G: Maybe they were just following the format of X-Files. I've not seen a single-

C: I suppose, like, they never had a showrunner.

G: Yeah, I've never seen a single X-Files episode.

C: Yeah, me neither. All I know about it is- what? There's an episode where there's a shapeshifter who like, makes out with Mulder or something, and then they never talk about it again, that he was down for it?

G: No.

C: I love queerbait applied to straight people.

G: No, I love straightbait. That's the only thing I know about X-Files, is that they were straightbaiting to Hell and back, and that's the most important thing. The second-most romantic thing after divorce [C laughs] is straightbaiting.

C: Yeah. Where's queerbaiting?

G: I think queerbaiting is at a 2.5, you know? [C: Okay.] Queerbaiting is only an offshoot of straightbaiting in my mind.

C: Yeah, okay. [both laugh] So true!

Yeah, we have a bunch of interviews from people talking about the alien abduction, and apparently, there's been multiple in this town. And there's a lot of believers here, and a sheriff who's like, "It's literally not."

G: The way it's filmed is like a documentary style, [C: Yes.] and then at the end of it, we realize that they're talking to Sam and Dean. But it is quite disconcerting to watch it thinking that like, "Oh, it's the beginning of a documentary," because it's people being like, “There are evidences.” And then the girlfriend from the cornfield just being like, "They took him!" Like, she's in distress. And then it's interspersed with all these people being like, "Woo, aliens." And then this girl going, "They took my boyfriend!" And it's like, you know, it's a bit- that's the comedy of the scene. [C: Yeah.] And then it ends, and they're interviewing these people.

C: So Marion says, “Of course it's not UFOs. It's fairies.” We'll see her later. And yeah, and Sam immediately chews into her, saying, "If you want to add glitter to that glue you're sniffing, that's fine, but don't dump your wackadoo all over us. We'd rather not step in it." [G laughs]

G: Which is crazy because like, for Sam and Dean, it is more likely to be fairies. [C: Yeah.] Like, it is a giant leap for it to be aliens.

C: It's because she's a woman, and fairies are considered girly. I think that's literally it.

G: No, it's crazy!

C: Like, remember the scene where they're in her parlor, and they're like, "Oh my god! It's disgusting that we're drinking from small teacups." Like, get over yourselves!

G: I do think this is culturally insensitive, and I mean that solemnly. [C laughs] It is culturally insensitive to talk about fairies this way! It is!

C: Yeah. To what? Ireland?

G: I mean, yeah.

C: Yeah, with the leprechaun.

G: But also, there are many places in the world who have similar concepts of like the girly, whatever. I can't believe that it's classified as girly. I don't know. People are fucking corny as hell. Why? Because they're small? Is it like a Thumbelina situation? [laughs] Why is it considered girly?

C: I don't know. They're small, associated with fairy tales, and men don't know about Cinderella, remember?

G: Oh, yeah. If I say "Thumbelina" to Dean, Sam would go, "Oh, I know her. She's my friend." [C laughs] And Dean would say, "You're gay as hell."

C: I mean, currently, Sam is saying, "You're gay as hell."

G: You know what's so frustrating? I was gonna reserve this for later, because I have a big thing about it, but it is so disconcerting to me that this entire episode, Sam is portrayed as not giving a fuck, having no sensitivity whatsoever, but when it's time to make a gay joke, he's so uncomfortable. Like, they portray him as like so uncomfortable to make it funny. And it's like, "I thought he didn't give a fuck. Why is he now so uncomfortable?"

C: I guess Sam was straight, but then, without his soul, he's gay.

G: No, I think what they were doing was that Sam without his soul- They believe that [laughs] homophobia transcends soullessness. [C laughs] It transcends soullessness. So like, you can be soulless. You're still homophobic. [laughs]

C: So true! He also says, "The only thing you're missing is a couple dozen cats, sister." I don't think he would talk like this. [laughs]

G: Have you considered that it's actually gay to speak like this, Sam Winchester? Maybe he is gay.

C: Okay, so now we're back to the "Sam is gay without his soul."

G: Yeah, maybe he is gay without his soul. We're gonna go back and forth on this.

C: Alright, sounds good. Dean pulls him away, and Sam's like, "I don't understand what I did wrong there!" And Dean's like, "You're so stupid. But I guess because you're soulless, this is correct that you wouldn't know why this is a wrong thing to say." Dean's like, "You need to be empathetic because old Sam would have. And you have to care!" And Sam's like, "What do you mean? And Dean, about what?" And Dean goes, "About everything, man! About being human, at least."

G: There's also a part where Sam goes like, "Old Sam had a soul. Or was a soul. I don't know," which is very fun.

C: Yeah, that was fun. I did like that.

G: Supernatural never really answers that, I don't think. [laughs] Well, they do. They answer it with, "You have a soul. You're not a soul," which is like, fascinating! So when you die and your soul goes to Heaven or Hell, what happens to you?

C: I don't know.

G: Your body is also there? But your body's on Earth decomposing. I don't know. We don't know.

C: Yeah. Sam goes like, "Look, Dean. You obviously care, a lot, and that's great. But I can't care about what I can't care about. Like, do you want me to fake it?" And Dean goes, "Yes."

G: Love it.

C: Yeah, this is an interesting dynamic, and I like it, but I don't have anything else to say about it.

G: I mean, it is- because we have been going with like parallels, etc. Or like, not parallels. Allegories. We have been doing an allegorical reading of Sam's soullessness. I think it does come at this point where it's not really allegorical anymore. [C: Mm.] I suppose it's it could be allegorical to like, psychopathy.

C: Yeah, I was thinking that.

G: I don't know. I don't really have much to say too other than, I don't know. Fake it till you make it. So true, I guess. But the thing is, Sam's never gonna make it unless he gets his soul back, so what is the game plan? And they haven't really worked on getting the soul back, I suppose.

C: I mean, last episode it was, yeah. Do something for Crowley and hope you can get the soul back.

G: It is about- this episode airs in November 19. So I think it's about to be the break very soon, and I do wonder when they do the break. What happens?

C: "Caged Heat" is a pretty big episode, right?

G: What?

C: "Caged Heat," 6.10?

G: Yeah, that's the one with Cas [both] and Meg. Yeah. So like, maybe that. Maybe that.

C: Yeah. Crowley's there, too, so I'm assuming a big soul development happens, so that's a good time for a break. Dean does come across as fantasy ableist- and real ableist! in this episode. Dean tells him to fake it because "If you want to be a real boy, you've got to act the part." But like, [laughs] he's not gonna be a real boy until you get his soul back.

G: Yeah. Well, I do think he mentions earlier that "You should care because Sam with the soul would have." And I think an approach to this would be, "When you get your soul back, you're gonna feel real bad about how you've been acting."

C: Maybe so, yeah.

G: And like, I think that is an approach, but Supernatural never really leans into that, which is what I think the most reasonable thing to be saying to Sam is now. Because he talks a big game about wanting to get his soul back, and then, "There are feelings during that time that were like harder but also more rewarding." And it's like, well, if, you know, when you get your soul back, you'd want to feel a little bit good about it.

C: Yeah. But yeah, Sam says that he was faking it. He was picking every single word when they were together, and it was exhausting. Which I could believe, except again, we've seen Sam doing investigations alone during episodes where he's working a case with Dean, and he was fine. [laughs] He was not particularly insensitive. And that was just so the audience didn't know that something was up or only knew a little bit that something was up. But yeah, it just doesn't work because of past events that we have seen. Dean says that he'll just be Sam's conscience the whole time, his Jiminy Cricket, because Sam's a freaking puppet. So they go to interview Mr. Brennan, who is the father of Patrick, who got abducted. And he says that Patrick was taken after Sam says he disappeared, and he keeps going, "I don't want to talk to you because you can't help me because Patrick's nevah, evah coming back." [G: Nevah evah.] And they think that it's suspicious that he feels so sure about this, but he says, "No, it's because after 72 hours the odds of finding a missing person is zero, and it's been weeks." And after Sam and Dean leave, we see Mr. Brennan talk to somebody we can't see, going, "Is that alright?" Like, "Did what I say- Was that fine? Was it not too much information?" And outside, Dean thinks that Mr. Brennan is hiding something.

G: I honestly- because, as you remember, I didn't know it was gonna be the fairies for real. [C: Uh-huh?] I thought the watch was possessed. [laughs] Like, I thought he put his son in the watch. [C: Aw, that would be fun!] I was like, "Very fun. Very fun! Yeah!" Yeah, and also, to be clear, this guy makes watches, and there's a little workshop that he lives in or stays in a lot.

-

C: So Sam and Dean split up. Dean's gonna check out the cornfield, and Sam will stay back and watch Mr. Brennan. And Dean goes, "But do not engage with, maim, or in any way kill Brennan. Don't make any judgment calls. If anything happens, call me." And Sam's like, "Okay, fine. But I was fine alone for a whole year." [G: Yeah.] But yeah, they split up.

G: It is hilarious that he was like, "Don't kill anyone." [laughs] Love that.

Dean goes to the crop circles, as you said. Stuff starts happening. He's calling Sam, and they're talking about the case. Sam is like, watching the guy in a bar, and the guy's just drinking. But then suddenly Dean gets fucking UFOed. And there's just a fucking UFO, and he's being chased, and he's running, and like, Sam is a little bit interested, but like, his general disposition is like, "Okay." He's like, "Oh, you see something, Dean?" And Dean is like, "Yes! There's a UFO!" And Sam just goes, "Stop yelling." [both laughing] Yeah, he's like, "Oh, you're choppy. I'm so sorry. I can't hear you."

C: He doesn't say "I'm so sorry." [laughs]

G: No, he doesn't say. He just says, "You're choppy." He says, "You're breaking up. I can't catch that." Literally DGAF. And Dean says, "Close encounter," which, is this a proper term?Or, you know what I mean.

C: I don't know.

G: Is it the term?

C: Yeah, would people immediately know that that was about aliens?

G: Because Sam goes like, "What kind? First or second?"

C: Apparently it is. In ufology, a close encounter is an event in which a person witnesses a UFO at relatively close range. [G: Ah.] Level one is lights in the night sky. Second is, in the daytime, you see disks. Third, there's like UFO reports with radar confirmation. Fourth is you see one for real less than 500 feet away, with detail. Fifth is when there's a physical effect like a car malfunctioning. And six is when you actually see an alien or whatever.

G: So Sam is using a wrong scale.

C: Yeah, he is.

G: When Dean says that "They're after me," Sam says, "Third kind already." And then he goes, “You better run. I think the fourth kind is a butt thing.” And also, I suppose we should mention here that this episode has a lot of [C: Yeah.] rape jokes. [C: Yeah.] And specifically of this kind. "You're gonna get fucked in the ass" rape jokes.

C: Well, probed in the ass, but yeah.

G: Yeah, but that's the implication. It goes on until the fairies, [laughs] which is crazy. They were like, "Well, we gotta continue it at some point."

C: Yeah, they stopped when they were like, "Well, I guess it's actually gay, so now we can't."

G: Yeah, the fairies are real, so now it's gay for real. I don't know. It's just-

C: Yeah, it's unpleasant. It's yeah- I don't- yeah. And I feel like those were mostly Dean [G: Yeah, towards Dean.] doing those jokes in "Tall Tales," but now, yeah, Sam is doing them towards Dean. And yeah, they do a different form of rape joke when it's fairies. [G: Yeah.] Which is the "service Oberon, King of the Fairies" thing.

G: And it is disconcerting because we'll talk about it later, but there is this scene where Dean comes back and he talks about it, and he's obviously in distress. And Sam is incredibly blunt about it, and you're supposed to be like, "That's funny." When Sam says, "Oh, they took you to the probing table," and Dean goes, "Don't say it!" they're like, "Don't call it that" or something. And it's like, well, it's not fun to watch. [laughs] [C: Yeah.] Dean goes, "Have some empathy, Sam." But then the phone dies, and Sam tries. He's like, "Are you there? Are you there?" And then he's like, "Not there." So he shrugs his shoulders and then eyes up a waitress that's passing by. You know what's so fascinating is soulless Sam is like- Okay. Soulled Sam is attracted to women, but he never is like, hitting them up in this way. [C: Right.] He's never like, eyeing up women. [C: Yeah.] It's just fascinating that now that's like a "when he had a soul, he didn't eye up women." [both laugh] Like, what- [laughing] what conclusion are we supposed to make here?

C: I guess just, he wanted to, but he knew not to, out of respect, and now he doesn't have that anymore?

G: He has no respect for women. Well, that's crazy.

C: Yeah. Yeah. The base male body wants to eye up women, but if you have a soul, sometimes, you know that that's not on. [G laughs] It's strange.

G: If I'm gonna think about it, I do find it fascinating the things that Ben Edlund in this episode [C: Yeah.] has defined as part of the human experience that is not- that if you didn't have a filter, this is just what it's like.

C: Yeah. Being homophobic, [G: Being homophobic.] disrespecting women-

G: And being misogynistic. And like, I do think it is representative of a worldview.

C: Yeah, and of himself, too. [laughs]

G: Yeah, [laughs] I mean, I was trying to avoid saying that, but yeah. [both laugh] It's representative of a worldview... that he has! [laughs]

C: That he has, and acts upon, or wishes he could act upon.

G: Yeah, it's just a- it's a weird thing to do, personally, I think. And there's something I don't- I think it's weird because I don't agree with it, so.

C: Yeah. I mean, Sam's doing a lot of things that Dean does also, though.

G: Yeah, they kind of- Dean Winchester is an interesting example of like- he is representative of an uninhibited man, but he's so inhibited. [C: Yeah.] You as an audience, you're supposed- I think if you're trying to do the- what do you call it when you're watching, and then there's a term, right? You're watching, and the guy's like, being so cool, and then you're watching because he's so cool. I completely forgot the term.

C: Huh? I don't know.

G: There is! You know it. We've used it so many times. I'm just blanking now.

C: Power fantasy?

G: No, there's like a voyeur- you're riding the coattails. [laughs] I can't believe I can remember that term but not whatever the fuck this is. Well, that is what Dean is. You're- something that ends with -ly. Like "egregiously watching," but egregious is not the term. You're-

C: Vicariously.

G: Vicariously watching. [laughs] You're egregiously, vicariously watching. And if you're supposed to be vicariously watching Dean, you're supposed to think that he's so cool and so uninhibited. "Look at him! He's divorced from social norms and like, expectations, and he can just be cool, and hunt monsters, and be violent, and have sex with women." But like, you look at his character, and he's the most repressed man alive.

C: In some ways, yeah.

G: What's that about? Yeah. And like, I don't know. This is a thing that- now that we're seeing Sam being quote-unquote "uninhibited"-

C: Is Dean really that repressed?

G: I think so! Very much so!

C: Like, I don't know. I'm like, I'm sure it's true because I've said it before too, but I just don't remember when he was.

G: Maybe repressed is not the term, but he is definitely always putting on a show of some kind, which is the opposite of uninhibited. If you're uninhibited, you're supposed to not think of those consequences or that image of yourself [C: Or not care.] to the world. You're not supposed to be caring about that. But Dean cares so so so so much. [C: Yeah, okay.] And his fantasy is just being cool, you know, without trying. Being effortless in it, in your masculinity. And then you look at him, and he's putting in so much effort. And like, with Sam now, they are trying to portray Sam as the uninhibited man. Now, Sam really is not putting in that much effort to come off as this embodiment of masculinity that's like, "I'm working out with oil on my body, [both laugh] and I'm having sex with women," you know? And I don't know. Supernatural, what is going on? A question of all time.

C: Yeah. One we may never answer.

-

G: Sam does go to the crop field. He brings Dean's phone, sees it, picks it up. He's like, "Mm, well. He's gone, I guess." So he goes to a UFO night. It's a bunch of mobile homes. Is that what it's called? There must be another term.

C: Trailers?

G: Trailers, yeah. There's there's a bunch of trailers, and they have set up around a circle area where they're talking about UFOs and stuff. So Sam comes in to the guy that they were interviewing earlier. His name is Wayne. We'll see him later again. And he's like, "Okay, well, they're real." He asks for "What do we do? How do we get them?" So Wayne hands him the literature, and Sam scrolls through it or shuffles through it- flips through it? Sam flips through it. And he is like, "Well, whatever the fuck is this? Because there's no way to kill anything that is listed down in here, the only essential thing to know about everything." [C: Yeah.] And also, "I can't believe that after thirty years, all you have is this stupid shit." [laughs] He's really coming down into this guy. And then at some point, the lady that we were talking about earlier comes in.

C: Oh, her name is Sparrow.

G: Was it really?

C: That's what the transcript says. I don't remember her introducing herself, though. [G: Yeah.] It might just be in the credits.

G: Sam has been talking about Dean, about how his brother was abducted, and she goes like, "Oh my god! That's so sad!" And he's like, "No, it's okay. I've had time to process it." And she goes, "Did it happen when you were kids?" [C laughs] And he goes, "No, just thirty minutes ago." They share, you know, a smile. A look, even. After Sam demolishes the guy that he's talking to, we go back to the cornfield. Dean is there. He- not "wakes up." He just shows up there. He's just there again. And he has a gun out, and he's wildly pointing it to places. And then he walks to the motel, and when he gets there, he turns on the light, and Sam's having sex. And he turns around. He goes, "Dean!" And the lady is like, "Oh my god, you're Dean! Sam, they brought your brother back!" [C laughs] Love it. Sparrow is about to head out when she turns around, and she's like, "Oh my god, Dean. I know it's like, you know, family time, etc. But I was just wondering, what happened? What were they like?" And Dean dismisses her and closes the door on her. And Sam's like, "Wow! I can't believe that you're so upset." Well, no, he just says- he is using statement terms. He says, "You're upset." So true. Dean says, "I was abducted." Also maybe true. And "You were banging Patchouli." And Sam goes, "I don't think she smelled that bad." I don't even know what patchouli is. Does it smell bad? Or is it like an herb or something that's associated with hippies?

C: Yeah, I guess it's a species of plant, so probably.

G: It's like an earthy smell. They have terrifying-looking flowers. Look at these. What the fuck is these? Terrifying.

C: They do look like mold.

G: Dean is mad because he was abducted by aliens and Sam DGAF. Dean also conveys that he was just gone for an hour, and half of that time he spent walking to the motel. And Sam's like, "That's not true. You're lying to me because you have been out the entire night. It's 4 AM now." And Sam's like, "Yeah, it usually happens. There's a time slip and everything." Sam hands Dean a drink, and Dean starts talking, and he says, "You know, there's this white light," and he's obviously struggling to get his words out. So Sam pats him in the in the knee and goes, "It's okay." And then nods sagely and goes, "It's a safe room." [laughs] He's so stupid! It is so stupid that they're doing this, but it is very fun. But again, as we've mentioned, [laughs] the context of the situation- The comedy that they were trying to do is that Dean is having a serious moment, and Sam's being incredibly direct about everything, which is what happens here. When Dean is like, "Oh, they were taking me to a table," and Sam goes, "A probing table!" and Dean goes, "No, don't say that out loud." Dean says he started like hacking and firing, etc, and then he was back on Earth. And I do wonder how this translates to now. Now that we know that it's fairies. They just made him see something else?

C: Well, he said that- he didn't see anything that was like, deceptive. He said that they were all like so bright, glowing white lights that he couldn't tell who the figures were, [G: Ah.] and the fairy we see later is a very small, glowing white light until Dean is able to see closer, right?

G: Yeah, but they also had some guy who was a guy.

C: Well, yeah, I guess they were taking human form on the Earth? But that was like, after they were summoned or whatever, right? So wherever they are, they could just be bright lights to the human eye. [G: Ah.] But yeah, I don't know why they wanted him on the table, though. It's not clear what the fairies want with abductions. Abductees?

G: Yeah, anyway, now, they go to a diner. And as they're talking, Dean's like, "Unbelievable. Aliens, real. What else is real? Unbelievable." And this entire time, Sam kind of DGAF, and then a waiter comes in and he gives her like a "How you doing?" [C laughs] And Dean's like, "Wait! Why are you doing that? [both laugh] The reality is collapsing around us, and you're flirting with a waitress." And Sam goes, "Okay, let's finally talk about the fact that I slept with that girl. So I have no soul, and-" Oh, no, he says, "Say you've got a soul, and your brother gets abducted by aliens." And Dean's like, "Well, you try everything to bring him back." But Sam goes, "No, but I did that. But then there were no more leads for the night. So I'm just supposed to suffer and sit there in the dark? There's nothing else that could be done." And Dean's like, "Yes, you're supposed to sit there and suffer in the dark! [C laughs] And you feel the loss," is what he says. And Sam says, "Well, can't I do all that, and also sleep with a hippie chick?" [C laughs] And Dean says, "No," and Sam says, "It'd be in the dark," [C: So good.] which is my best line. That is my best line, as I now say. Loved it. And Dean says, "You can't do that because you would be suffering."

C: Sam's literally right, though. [laughs]

G: I mean, I think Dean is also literally right in that if you had a soul, your soul wouldn't let you.

C: If you'd be suffering, it'd be hard for you to- [G: Yeah.] Yeah. But I think there's no moral high ground to suffering in the dark at night.

G: Yeah. Sam says, "So you're saying that having a soul equals suffering? Oh, so like when you call Lisa, almost, a million times. That's what it's about. You're saying that that's a good thing? Suffering is a good thing?" And Dean says, "I'm saying it's the only game in town." I agree with him, unfortunately. [C: What?] I know you just said that you shouldn't suffer in the dark, but like, it is what it is. You kind of do suffer. You don't have to, and there's no moral high ground to it, but it is what it is.

G: I mean, you don't have to. And also, there are exercises for distress relief.

G: I know, but sometimes, it's like, it feels good to suffer, which is, you know.

C: No, I agree with that. But that doesn't need to be a a universal whatever, yeah.

G: Ah. So what Dean is saying here that you're not agreeing is that it's the only thing to do is to suffer.

C: Yeah.

G: That's probably true.

G: I love to be miserable. Is that true? I don't think that's true.

C: Yeah, when you're miserable, you say things like, "I hate this. I'm miserable."

G: Yeah, and I don't think I am a particularly miserable person as well. Like, that's not my general disposition. I mean, about suffering, they were never wrong, the old masters, etc, you know? I think the thing here is that you're suffering, you have to understand that it does not mean that other people are supposed to be suffering as well, which is, I think, where Dean is going wrong. That's the quote I was referencing. This is about the W.H. Auden poem, oh my god! My first poem from him that I know of. It's called "Musée des Beaux Arts." I don't know how to pronounce that, I'm so sorry, French people. Except I'm not. Who give a fuck about the French? [both laugh] Am I allowed to say that, or is that actually offensive?

C: You're allowed to say whatever.

G: What languages are we allowed to be like, who give a fuck? I feel like if it's a colonizing language, [C: People do feel like making fun of the- yeah.] that's probably fine. Yeah. Well, anyway, that poem is about how, you know, when Icarus fell, people were just walking around, even though there's something marvelous happening, a boy falling out of the sky. And like, with Dean, I think that is where he- I think Dean has this perspective that if he's suffering, Sam has to suffer. So this entire conversation is not really about Sam's suffering, it's about Dean's. And yeah. And I do think the example that Sam gives of "Yeah, but the million times you almost called Lisa" is like a fascinating example, because we have already established with Sam DGAF about that, and that is a suffering that is not supposed to be seen as transcendental to Sam. [C: Right.] So that's fine. It's fine that he doesn't care about that because it's not supposed to be something that he also possesses then afterwards. But worry about Dean is something that he is supposed to possess, and therefore, Dean suffering at that moment is transcendental to Sam supposedly, and so therefore, he should also suffer, which is not something that I believe, personally. So yeah, I suppose we do agree. I just love to say that I love to suffer, even if I don't.

C: [laughs] So true.

G: I am still Catholic after everything. Dean starts seeing a guy. This is the beginning, right? He sees just a guy outside, and it disappears. The guy disappears.

C: Yeah, and he's glaring at Dean really hard, and Sam can't see the guy when Dean points him out.

They go back to the motel, and Dean is calling Sam, who's actually at the library. And he's just been doing UFO research, and not a lot is happening. "Major Tom" by David Bowie starts playing on the radio really loud, and then the lights start flickering, and then a bright ball of light flies into the room, gets really close to Dean, and he sort of squints, and he goes, "Nipples?"

G: I do love the music choice this scene. I like the vibe of the scene. It's very fun.

C: Yeah. The bright light hits Dean, and he yells, "Bitch!" [both laughing] because now that he's seen that it's a naked woman, he knows the correct slur to call her.

G: That it's not a son of a bitch, literally.

C: Yeah. And he traps the fairy in a microwave and puts it on for a bunch of minutes, and he laughs while she gets microwaved to death. [G: Yeah.] So Sam returns, and they're both looking inside the microwave. Sam sees nothing, but Dean sees splattered blood and entrails from the fairy who he microwaved. And yeah, he explains that the monster was "a little, glowing, hot, naked lady, with nipples."

G: She's a hot woman.

C: Yeah. Do we see any female fairies for the rest of this episode?

G: I don't even think so. And also, everyone else-

C: Yeah, it's because women can't make watches, and they're not hot or naked. [G laughs]

G: Women literally cannot make watches in the Supernatural universe! [both laugh] Literally.

C: Very confusing to me. Ben Edlund, what even goes on? Sam goes, "I'm not supposed to laugh, right?" And then he does make an effort because yeah, they move on. And Sam says, "One of the fringe theories is that these UFO objections are actually with ultra-terrestrials, aka fairies." And Dean agrees that that could be the case because the woman had wings. They go to Marion's trailer. Marion's the woman who was talking about fairies earlier, and her decor is there's a lot of gnomes and fairies and things like that and porcelain around, a lot of knickknacks, and she's serving them tea from very small cups, and that's a huge point of humor in this scene, I suppose, that men are drinking from small teacups.

G: The scene where Jared Padelecki, and I do mean Jared Padelecki [C laughs] is drinking from the cup is a very famous one.

C: It is. She's talking about fairies, and Dean points at one of the figurines and is like, "Oh,  that's sort of like the one I killed," but he doesn't say "killed." And yeah, Marion explains that tiny Santa Clauses and trolls and everything, goblins, they all count as fairies. And she seems very positive about them, and she mentions that only people who have been to fairyland can see them back in the real world, and they only take firstborn sons, we don't know why. And she says that she thinks that they're taken to Avalon to service Oberon, the King of the Fairies, so I mean, essentially, sexual slavery. And there's like, a moment that feels tense, but I think it's just tense because Sam's holding back laughter, and that's supposed to be the entire vibe, where he goes, "Dean. Did you service Oberon, King of the Fairies?" And he sounds very serious, but it's just because he thinks it's so so so so funny?

G: I don't think he thinks it's funny. That's not the vibe I got at all.

C: What is the vibe you got?

G: He's supposed to be like, "Uh." Like, that emotion. [laughing] I can't describe it. If it's not obvious, I'm having difficulty with my English this evening.

C: Yeah, is it just the like, I don't know, feeling- It's a very out-of-pocket thing for him to hear, so he's just going like-

G: No, this is why I find this scene weird, as I've said earlier. He shows no emotions or no consideration for sensitivity this entire episode. And now he's like- he's not laughing. He's uncomfortable. And I'm like, why would he be uncomfortable?

C: He's uncomfortable because he's trying to hold back laughter.

G: You think so? Are you sure?

C: Yeah, I mean, he repeats Marion's exact phrasing, which I feel like to me usually implies that he thinks that there's something funny or peculiar about the exact phrasing, which makes it feel like a holding back laughter thing.

G: Okay, got it.

C: But yeah, I don't know. If people have a different read, let us know. ‘Cause yeah, he hasn't shown himself to care about Dean being raped at all this episode, so.

G: Yeah. What does Dean say? He just looks over at Sam, right? Like he glares?

C: I think he just glares at him and moves on. He asks Marion, "How do we... do things about the fairies?" And Marion's like, "Oh, you wanna interact with them?" And Dean's like, "Forcefully interact." And she says to win a fairy's flavor- sorry, if you want to win a fairy's favor, you leave a bowl of fresh cream out for them. For more force, they hate iron, they burn when touched with silver, and if you spill sugar or salt in front of them, they have to stoop to count each grain. They're about to head out, but she asks them to just stay for a bit to finish their tea, and they just spend this time making fun of her for her decor. Dean calls it "cuterrific," and Sam asks for a bigger cup, but unfortunately, even though he's a man, he has to drink out of a small one! They head out, and they're like, "Well, that was wild! I don't know what to do next, but maybe let's call Bobby?" But they get a lead because they see Mr. Brennan buying a bunch of cream.

G: A flat of cream. [laughs] The fuck is a flat?

C: Like a flatbed truck? Like it was in a-

G: Ohh. That's an actual term? That's fun.

C: I don't know. I'm just guessing.

G: Oh, okay. A whole apartment of cream.

C: I don't know. I think it was like a whole- basically like a crate, but bigger, right? The floor of a flatbed trucks thing. So maybe.

G: So Sam and Dean split up. Sam's gonna keep an eye on Mr. Brennan, and Dean is gonna go to the watch shop. And as he heads in there, there's just a bunch of creature. Small guys. Like Thumbelina! [both laugh] Thumbelina is the only small girl I know, but they're all making the watches.

C: Yeah. And by small, we mean a foot tall, if shorter.

G: No, like Thumbelina. Yeah. Do people still know Thumbelina? I have not heard Thumbelina's name in so long.

C: I still know Thumbelina.

G: Who doesn't? [C laughs] A genuine question. Who doesn't know Thumbelina?

C: Some people.

G: I don't think my 8-year-old would know who Thumbelina is.

C: That's on you. You could introduce her to Thumbelina at any point.

G: Literally. Also, my 8-year-old sister. I don't have a child. So Dean calls Sam about it, and he's like, "Well, he made the deal with a bunch of fairies so they would make his watches or something." And so Sam is like, "Ugh, I'm gonna confront this guy." And so he does, and then he goes, "Did I ever mention how beautiful your work is? They're stunning. I just can't figure out how one man can make all of these watches. It's almost like a bunch of elves are working for you to make them. But that's not true, right? Except, it is true. [both laugh] A bunch of elves are working for you to make your watches." And he says, "Did you decide to trade your son for a bunch of watches? I mean, I assume you have a soul. So what's your excuse?" Love it. Do you think if Sam saw a completely bangerass watch, he'd sell Dean about it? Well, he was going to for a Coke, as [C: Yeah.] was established last last episode or last episode.

C: Is Sam a watch wearer?

G: I don't think he is.

C: I don't think so. I haven't seen him with one. He'd sell Dean for a FitBit.

G: No, Sam would tell Dean for an Apple Watch or something.

C: True, he will be an Apple Watch user, just vibes-wise, in later years.

G: It is so unfortunate that Sam and Dean are On the Road Jack Kerouac when Sam is literally, you know that term for the first wave of people to accommodate into a technology? Sam's literally that. [C: Yeah.] He literally would get an Apple Watch before everyone. He would get the Apple Visor before everyone else.

C: Is that a thing?

G: Yes!

C: We already had this conversation, maybe. Well, let's stop advertising for Apple. But yeah, I didn't know about that.

G: Mr. Brennan finally tells Sam- They are now like at the booth because this is now a booth conversation, not a bar conversation. And he says that what happened was he called on the elves simply because he just wanted to make better watches, or he wants to keep on making watches [C: Well, he couldn't.], but his hand was injured. He had-

C: No, he has Parkinson's, so it's not injury.

G: He has Parkinson's, oh! And he knows that his grandmother used to say that you can summon fairies, so he summons one, and then he wishes to be able to keep on making watches, and his hand- his Parkinson's not... do it anymore. [laughs]

C: Yeah, reduce the hand tremors from Parkinson's.

G: Yeah. He agrees, but he didn't realize that what he was agreeing to was that they were going to take "the fruit and the fat of the land," which is the term that they use, and he didn't understand that meant first-born sons. Rumpelstiltskin is the comparison that they make, and I love it so much. Literally like Rumpelstiltskin. [C: That's true.] Is it firstborn son or is it firstborn? [both] Marion said it was firstborn son. Yeah, and I don't think we did see a girl get taken. And he says that there is a way to reverse the spell, but because the fairies are in the book or in the store, and that's where the book is, he has not been able to get it. What a nightmare situation! What a horrible thing to experience this thing. But he can see the fairies, just like Dean Winchester. And as as we have this conversation, we see Dean get into a whole fiasco where the guy that has been like following him around is there and starts mimicking him as he's walking, which I do think they make this interesting- I don't really know what the purpose of this character is other than, you know, try to kill Dean later. It's never really explained, is it? You said it-

C: Yeah, I don't know. Dean tried to escape, so he's trying to bring him back, I think.

G: They're just trying to get someone to be a creepy mime, which is the vibe of this guy. He's like a creepy mime. But he mimics the way Dean walks. Dean was supposed to tackle him at some point, but then he ends up tackling a little person, and then he's calling this guy "a little fairy." "Fairy, fairy, fairy." He keeps on repeating it.

C: Yeah. [both laugh] Why? [laughs]

G: [laughing] What is up [both] with Ben Edlund.

C: I don't know. [G: Yeah.] He just loves a slur. He loves to get to say a slur and to laugh.

G: He loves to go "hehehehehe!" every time.

C: He loves to make Crowley say "fag" to refer to cigarette, right? Yeah, this is an episode where he goes, "Without a soul as a filter, you will be homophobic and make rape jokes all the time and disrespect women." This does seem to be a manifestation of him always sort of wanting to say a slur [both laugh] and coming up with plots that allow him to.

G: Well! This is happening pretty near the bar that Sam and Mr. Brennan are in.

C: Yeah, there are people nearby, and there's a little girl who screams, "Daddy!" And also, there's an Asian man there, and he's frowning and shaking his head to show that he disagrees with homophobia and ableism.

G: And then, you know, the cops show up and arrest Dean as Sam is heading out to Mr. Brennan's. And he's saying like, "Oh, don't worry, my brother and I, my brother can see the fairies, we can cover for you," etc. But then Dean is being cuffed and arrested. Sam is saying, "Hey, what's going on?" And Dean just goes, "Just fight those fairies! You fight those fairies! Fight the fairies!" What is-?

C: Why?

G: He would not say that shit. [C: Yeah.] First of all, we already know that it was the fairies, so like, if it was a reveal, if it was revealed now that "Oh, it's actually fairies!" then this would make sense, except that's not the case. And number two, doesn't he already understand that he's in trouble for potentially being a fucking hate crimer? [C: Yeah.] [laughs] And he did- I don't know. Many things going on in this episode, and all of them- well, some of them- bad. But now he's in jail, and as we said, the cop goes, "I don't even know what kind of hate crime this was." And Dean goes, "It wasn't a hate crime." And the cop goes, "If this gentleman was a full-sized homosexual, would that be okay with you?" [C laughing] And Dean says, [laughing] "I don't hate any size person or any size gay guy."

C: Separate categories! [G screams] So true. The three categories of sapient beings are person, gay guy, and monster.

G: You know, I kind of do commend Ben Edlund for getting him to say, from Jensen Ackles's mouth, "I don't hate any size gay guy." [both laugh] Like, I commend it. It's just- yeah. Hearing Jensen Ackles say "gay" is not- I don't know.

C: Every orientation.

G: Every orientation. He should have said "I don't hate any size person or any size person with any orientation."

C: Yeah, he should have said, "It's not about the heterosexual or the nonbinary."

G: No, why did Jared Padalecki say that? [C laughing] [C: Why did he say that?] Why did he say that? Why did he say that? What was the cause?

C: What did he mean? What did he think he was meaning?

G: I think he was- No, but why is it like, heterosexual and nonbinary specifically? [laughs]

C: Yeah, why are those the two?

G: I think he was trying to say that it's not about gender and sexuality. [both laughing] And of course, the main gender and the main sexuality is heterosexual and nonbinary. Yeah. So yeah, the cop goes, "Well, he's not gay, as it happens, but he is the district attorney for Tipton County." [laughs] And so- and they bring this up later as well. At the end of the episode, this is-? [C: Yeah.] Well, anyway, Dean goes like, "I'd say he's done so well for himself, considering his..." and then he pauses a bit, [C: Jesus.] and the cop looks at him and he looks at the cop, and he goes, "Considering the tough economic times."

C: Ugh. Yeah. Literally, Ben Edlund did go, "Wouldn't it be so funny if Dean was perceived as homophobic and ableist?"

G: And he was.

C: And then Dean immediately was homophobic and ableist?

G: Well, didn't you see, Crystal? He already said that he doesn't hate any size person or any size gay guy.

C: Or any size... gay... guy. [laughs] He paused.

G: He takes a pause. He goes, "Any size... gay. guy." [C laughs]

The cop doesn't buy it. And so we get a scene of Dean- and I do always love these scenes where someone is in a room or something, and they're just going around doing things in the room, walking, pacing, lying down somewhere.

-

C: Now, we cut to Sam and Mr. Brennan going inside his watch shop, and Sam obviously can't see anything, but Mr. Brennan can see that the fairies have all basically fallen asleep, or they're just very tired because they ate all that cream, and it sort of knocked them out. So he goes over to his safe and gets the book, and he starts reading it out loud in the shop. Go outside, dude! They can hear you! Maybe he needs to be near them for it to work. But yeah, he starts and he gets halfway through, and then-

G: He dies! [C: Yeah.] He gets killed! [laughs]

C: The guy who has been following Dean around stabs him in the back, and we see it as a shot of the blade going through his front in the middle of him reading. And then that guy transforms into Wayne, the UFO guy Sam was talking to earlier. And he is the leprechaun that made this deal in the first place And Sam's like, "Wow, you're so smart because you  encourage the UFO stuff so that nobody knows that it's really fairies while you abduct the firstborns." Wayne is like, "Well, who cares if you know my secret? You're so screwed," and he disappears because he has the power to. And they have an exchange where Wayne is like, "I can tell that you're missing your soul because fairy folk are all about energy, and the human soul has a certain energy," which I guess is this episode's contribution to the Season 6 overall plot. And he says, "You know, like I could get your soul back for a price." And Sam says, "That's impossible because it's locked in a box with the devil," and Wayne says, "Your devil, not mine. We can do what angels can't do because we have real magic from fairyland." And Sam's like, "Okay, sure, I have a wish I want you to fulfill," and he shoots him with an iron bullet, and it's painful, but it doesn't really actually hurt him. And then the rest of this is a continued fight scene where a fairy shows up- I guess the guy that's been following Dean shows up inside his cell and starts beating the shit out of him. And it's tense, because "Oh, no! If Sam doesn't banish all the fairies in time, then Dean will die!"So yeah, Sam's struggling a lot, too, he's losing. And then he remembers to throw a bunch of salt on the floor, and Wayne, he goes, "Oh, no!" and he starts stooping down to count. Sam goes, "Why didn't I do that earlier?" So true. And while the leprechaun's counting, Sam finishes up the spell, and all the fairies vanish, and Dean's fine.

In the last scene- I think this is so interesting. I like this so much. Because, okay, Sam and Dana are by the car, and Dean offers him a beer, and he goes, "Nah." And we're so used to the two of them having a beer at the end of a case. It's like a bonding moment. Both of them enjoy this activity. And at this point, you realize that Sam only wanted to drink when he had a soul like, for Dean's feelings? [G laughs] Like, he doesn't enjoy this post-case ritual. There's nothing in it- Like, it was purely sentiment. He doesn't like beer. Earlier, when Dean comes back, Sam pours him a drink and tells him to drink, but he never drinks in this episode. Have we seen Sam, soulless Sam drink in general, in fact?

G: I'm not sure.

C: Like I don't recall it happening. I think he is not into it.

G: That's interesting. That's interesting. Let's keep on observing it.

C: Yeah, he's purely a social drinker. Yeah. And they're like, "We weren't ableist enough this episode. Let's do it again." So Dean cheers to, quote, "the tiniest DA" because he dropped the charges against Dean. He shouldn't've. And then Sam goes, "Little big man." Why? Why? I mean, "why" is ableism.

G: No, it's just, you know, we have talked about how Supernatural has a tendency to do things where they would have a person who is not their usual fare of character in Supernatural and do a big deal of pointing out such. And here, obviously, they put in a little person here so Dean can hate crime the guy, which is already insane. But post-hate crime, too, it's the only thing about him? Post-hate crime? What's going on?

C: Yeah. [laughs] What the fuck is going on? And then they move on because Dean's like, "Do you think the leprechaun really could have gotten your soul back?" And Sam's like, "No, probably not." And Dean's like, "I mean, why did you say no?" And Sam just says, "‘Cause it's a deal, and deals are bad," and blah blah blah. And Dean's like, "Okay, sure, but I think it's because you secretly don't want your soul back." And Sam's like, "What?? No. That's crazy." [laughs] And then the episode ends. [G laughs]

G: Literally. I mean, are we supposed to be on Dean's side of suspicion, or on Sam's side of, "[British] Dean, I can't believe you would be suspicious."

C: I think we're supposed to be on Dean's side, even though I don't think that not wanting to get his soul back had anything to do with Sam killing the leprechaun. But I think we are supposed to suspect because Sam's questions this episode have all been like, "Why do I have to do that? Having a soul is literally just suffering? Like, okay." So yeah, that's the episode.

G: Yeah. Well, what did we think of it?

C: I did not like it particularly.

G: It's less fun than I was led to believe it would be, given that it is a very famously funny episode, or known to be as such. I do think it proposes interesting things and funny things about Sam's characterization as soulless Sam, but not in a way that continues on the more interesting aspects of the season, and also, it absolutely lacks subtlety on it. [C: Yes.] AndSupernatural is not the kind of show where you demand subtlety, but like, it's nice when it happens! [laughs]

C: Yeah, I appreciate subtlety.

G: When it happens, they do it good sometimes! And so it is a little bit sad that they don't do it good this time. [C: Yeah.] Or they don't do it at all. Best Line/Worst Line? My best line is, in fact, "It would be in the dark." [C laughs] He's so real for that. It would be in the dark. [C: Yeah.] It's like, sometimes when I go to sleep, when I'm supposed to be doing something, and I turn the light on, so I'm asleep with the light on, I'm like, "I'm not working, but I'm asleep with the light on, so I-" [both laugh]

C: Yeah, you are. I also like that exchange just in general. The whole conversation, "Are you supposed to just sit there in the dark and suffer even when there's nothing that can be done at the moment?"

G: I do suppose I also like that Dean brings up Lisa [C: That Sam does?] because we haven't really seen- Yeah, that Sam does, because we haven't really seen it be around that much, or we have, but always Dean checking his phone, and we've never really spoken about it in Supernatural. Supernatural hasn't really addressed it in that way. And so it's fun for it to be addressed, I would say.

C: Yeah, I suppose so. [laughs] "Lisa, please pick up! It's so hard to explain that I was a vampire! We need to meet up so I could tell you the one sentence 'I was a vampire'!" [G: Literally.] Worst line, probably- there's a lot. [laughs] There's a lot of them. I feel like everyone knows what the worst lines are. They're just all the ableist and homophobic ones.

G: Yeah, I did severely dislike "Did you service Oberon, the King of the Fairies?" And I also don't like the fact that that's a semi-famous fandom line.

C: It is.

G: Yeah. And also the implications on Sam's character of that line, I also don't like. Spreadsheets. Spread those sheets. [C: Well.] Well, we have quite a bit. We kind of already do have a honorary category of ableism. [C: Yeah.] I said at the end of Season 5 that we were gonna add it for real, but we didn't end up doing it.

C: I forgor.

G: We literally forgor, but that's okay. We can just remain it to be honorary.

C: Okay, [both] misogyny. Sam disrespects women.

G: Yes, but there is also a misogynistic attitude behind the way they treat Marion. [C: Yeah.] So I would say, I give this- It's casual enough, I give it 2 or 1.

C: Yeah, I was thinking 1.

G: Okay. Racism.

C: I don't remember any.

G: I did say it was culturally insensitive. [laughs]

C: Yes.

G: But I am not including it.

C: I mean, the fairies that they make fun of in this episode are pretty Western culture.

G: Yeah, but I don't know.

C: Yeah, it's fucked.

G: I just hate the gender- Why are we making monsters gendered? It's always egregious, too. The fact that witches are like, the girl monsters, [both laugh] and they're "bitches!" You know, Dean loves to say that.

C: You know, I'm gonna up the misogyny to 2 now that I think about it more. But yeah, nothing on racism, or?

G: I would say nothing on racism.

C: [both] Homophobia. I think it's intrinsic.

G: This has got to be- It's intrinsic. I would say it's a 4.

C: Yeah, I was thinking 4, too. Alright.

G: And I do think the ableism is the same. It's also 4.

C: Yeah. Yeah. Well, good job, Ben Edlund. If we add the honorary points, then you have 10 this episode. [G laughing]

G: Go, Ben! Love that!

C: Go, Ben!

G: Well, IMDb? I am that Db. This is 6.09. So it's odd. It's your turn.

C: I mean, this is iconic regarding the humor. I've seen people talk about it a lot. But I also think it's like, not good, [laughs] so.

G: Yeah. The episode, it's an iconic episode, but not because of the quality of it, is the thing. [C: Yeah.] It's about other things.

C: Yeah. So... 8.1?

G: Okay, 8.1. I'm gonna go higher than you, because I do believe in the power of [both] humor. I would go 8.4.

C: Oh, wow!

G: Yeah. Okay, let's see. Ah! It's an 8.3.

C: Good job. [G: Thank you.] I'm losing so so so so hard this season.

G: Yeah. "A funny joke with the X-Files." What is the deal with X-Files? What is the twist of it? That it's like, actually [both] aliens-

C: I think it's aliens.

G: - when they think it's like the FBI shit?

C: Okay, this person says that this was funny, but they're missing good old Sammy now. "I hope they don't stretch it any further because it would turn the humor into sheer annoyance."

G: This one says that "It was interesting to see Supernatural tackle fairy lore, which actually has a lot more horror potential than most people realize." And they talk a bit about how it was the Victorians who started to romanticize them, and then Disney, "but if you read some of the older tales or listen to still current ones in rural Ireland or Scotland, fairies are anything but cute and harmless." I wonder- they don't do a Filipino lore situation at any point in Supernatural. They do an Indonesian one?

C: Do they?

G: I'm pretty sure. In "The Chitters." They have an Indonesian monster. I do think this has been- I don't know if I've mentioned this in the podcast before, but the global, you know, lore of stuff like this is so rich, I would say especially in southeast Asia. It's like- I think we are a region that is famously like, people believe in that shit. And I've actually read some papers on this where the take is that when you're in a country with that much colonial and also dictatorship violence, and there's a lot of censorship, it happens that your mythical lore or the mystical creature and haunted and ghost shit is much higher. I think I've said in this podcast that I actively believe in ghosts and creatures and stuff. I don't know. It's not like I want Supernatural to tackle them. [both laugh] But like, I do- for this one specifically, I understand that there are people who believe in this, you know? And so I feel a little bit more- this is more akin to me to when they- I mean, obviously, it's a different thing, but this is like closer to me when they make fun of gods [C: Right.] than they do when they talk about vampires or werewolves. I think that's where my pushback against it is coming from. [C: That makes sense.] Yeah, even though it's not- obviously not from my culture. But yeah. [C: Yeah.] This one says, "I believe, clap clap clap clap clap emoji." That's pretty fun. [laughs] But they think it's an incredibly funny episode. Not true. Not funnay.

C: Not true. "For some reason, I like the first episodes in Season 6 where Sam has no soul. When he is normal, he is a more weak and always end himself up being hit by the monsters." [both laugh] Sam got hit pretty hard in this episode, too!

G: Oh, Robert Picardo from Star Trek is here. Who is that guy? Robert Picardo... Oh, he is from Star Trek: Voyager, which I have not seen. That's fun that they put him in here. He was Mr. Brennan. Or was he the leprechaun? I'm not sure.

C: I don't know.

G: That’s it for this episode of Busty Asian Beauties. Next week, we will be discussing Season 6, Episode 10: "Caged Heat." Leave us a rating or a review wherever you get your podcasts.

C: Follow us on social media! We are on Tumblr at bustyasianbeautiespod.tumblr.com. Our official tag is #BABPod, B-A-B-POD. Thanks to everyone who's donated to our Ko-Fi- Oh, especially that last person. Thank you!

G: Oh, that's very nice. Yeah, thank you.

C: Yeah, thank you. I guess you said that you were just finishing Season 1 when you gave us that money, so it's gonna be a long time before you get here, if you even do. But thanks! [G: Yeah!] But yeah, thank you to everyone who's donated to our Ko-Fi at ko-fi.com/bustyasianbeautiespod, which is where our outtakes live, and check out our merch at babpod.redbubble.com.

G: You can email us any feedback, comments, or inquiries at bustyasianbeautiespod@gmail.com. See you guys next time! [both] Bye!

[guitar music]

[bustyasianbeautiespod]

Episode 113: Queerbaiting is Only an Offshoot of Straightbaiting

Today, Crystal & Grey discuss Supernatural 6.09 - Clap Your Hands If You Believe. We talk about: suffering, Sam "I'm Working Out With Oil on My Body and I'm Having Sex With Women" Winchester, and Dean Winchester being an "uninhibited man" power fantasy when he is so inhibited.

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Transcript

[bustyasianbeautiespod]

hello!! eps are going to be a bit sporadic due to scheduling circumstances involving the holidays, but we WILL be back in 2025 better and funnier and cooler and more charming and charismatic than ever.

- Grey <3

[bustyasianbeautiespod]

Episode 112 Transcript: Why Did Lucky The Dog Cross the Road? To Get to Purgatory

[intro guitar music]

G: Hello, it's Grey.

C: Hello, it's Crystal.

G: And this is Busty Asian Beauties, a Supernatural commentary podcast where I, someone who has seen this show many, many times...

C: And I, someone who only knows the show through social media, discuss every single episode of Supernatural from start to finish. Also, we are both Asian.

G: Both Asian! For today's episode, we will be discussing Season 6, Episode 8: "All Dogs Go to Heaven," written by Adam Glass, directed by Phil! Phil, you’re back, Phil! Hi, Phil Sgriccia! Directed by Phil Sgriccia.

C: How long have we been without Phil?

G: Let's look up. How long?

C: He directed “Exile on Main St.,” so only seven episodes.

G: Yeah, but that's still a lot to me, I think. I believe.

C: I understand.

G: Adam Glass entered in Season 6. His last ep was "Two and a Half Men," which is the one with the baby, and then this one, and then one called “Like a Virgin.” Is this the one where they become virgins again?

C: I don't know. I feel like that wouldn't be as big of a deal to make it a title.

G: I think that was Season 9 or something, I'm not sure. And then 6.19 is “Mommy Dearest,” the one with Eve, I'm pretty sure. “Party On, Garth,” the one where they drink. "Southern Comfort," the one with Benny.

C: Is that true? Okay, interesting.

G: Oh my god! He wrote “Bad Boys.” That's the big Dean one. People love that one.

C: Yeah, the one where he's at that home for boys, and he's gonna go to the dance with some girl but his dad shows up.

G: And play the guitar, yeah. So true.

C: Yeah. He was gonna be Jensen Ackles.

G: Did you know- Okay, I want to share this to the audience and to you. I haven't told you this, but I went to a party the other day that was supposed to be a Christmas party. But because, as you may remember also from this podcast mentioned before, there was a great big giant typhoon during the Halloween season, so we were like, “Oh, let's make it like a costume party!” [laughg] I didn't go as Dean Winchester because I lost heart, which is very, very, very, very awful, and I should not have done that, but I did go in with my leather jacket, and then somebody-

C: Bruce Springsteen?

G: No, but I was wearing a band shirt inside. A band shirt from Ang Bandang Shirley, my favorite band. A person there asked, “What are you dressed up as?” And I was like, “Oh, I don't know. I guess I'm dressed up as a caricature of myself because this is something that is so stereotypically my outfit.” And she started complimenting my leather jacket and how great she finds it and how much the color is so weird and different from other leather jackets, [C laughs] and I said, “Oh my god, yeah, I got it specifically because during my high school graduation, my creative shot, I dressed up as-” and then I tried to stop myself, [C laughs] and then I was like, “No, let's be who we are. Let's be real to ourselves." "I dressed up as Dean Winchester!” and then they proceeded- this person, and then a couple other people who have crowded around my leather jacket, proceeded to talk about how hot Jensen Ackles is.

C: No!

G: I know!

C: What are they talking about?

G: I thought I was gonna be publicly shamed, and all of them were like "Jensen Ackles is so hot." Isn't that crazy? I thought I was going to be publicly shamed.

C: So it was, in fact, you who was the only cool one there? [G laughs]

G: That's crazy, right? They're all like, "Jensen Ackles is so hot." And someone was like, "Who's Jensen Ackles?" "He played Dean Winchester. I can't believe you don't know what Supernatural is. He's the guy from Supernatural who's so hot." [C laughing] And then they were like, "He's so hot in The Boys as well." Isn't that crazy? [C: Yeah.] What's going on? What is going on?

C: I don't know. I mean, I understand that he's conventionally attractive, but that's a lot of people.

G: But "so hot," quote-unquote? It was a lot of people. It was maximum five people were saying that Jensen Ackles was hot.

C: Maximum or minimum?

G: No, it was five exactly [C laughs] that was saying that Jensen Ackles was hot.

C: Okay, both.

G: Yeah, it was max and min. So that was an event that happened to me.

C: Well, scary.

G: Yeah. But that's completely unrelated to our episode. I just love taking our audience to the journey of my leather jacket. It's a very important facet of my life.

C: So I suppose, to preface this episode, the monster of the week this week is a skinwalker. These are really important parts of Navajo culture and aren't really spoken about outside the Navajo community because like, just various reasons. To respect that, first, I think we're going to call the creature just “a creature” without saying the name during the episode, and secondly, I guess I will read a section of the article “Magic in North America Part 1: Ugh.” by Adrienne K. on the blog Native Appropriations, which is about J.K. Rowling's mention of these creatures in a Harry Potter franchise thing. Basically, after this dropped, this article came out and the writer, Adrienne K., said:

“I had a long phone call with one of my friends/mentors today, who is Navajo, asking her about the concepts Rowling is drawing upon here, and discussing how to best talk about this in a culturally appropriate way that can help you (the reader, and maybe Rowling) understand the depths to the harm this causes, while not crossing boundaries and taboos of culture. What did I decide? That you don’t need to know. It’s not for you to know. I am performing a refusal.

“What you do need to know is that the belief of these things (beings?) has a deep and powerful place in Navajo understandings of the world. It is connected to many other concepts and many other ceremonial understandings and lifeways. It is not just a scary story, or something to tell kids to get them to behave, it’s much deeper than that. My own community also has shape-shifters, but I’m not delving into that either.

“What happens when Rowling pulls this in, is we as Native people are now opened up to a barrage of questions about these beliefs and traditions (take a look at my twitter mentions if you don’t believe me)–but these are not things that need or should be discussed by outsiders. At all. I’m sorry if that seems 'unfair,' but that’s how our cultures survive.

“The other piece here is that Rowling is completely re-writing these traditions. Traditions that come from a particular context, place, understanding, and truth.”

So, yeah, that is our preface.

G: Yep. This one, it's a case episode, so I assume that you don't actually know a lot about it before going in.

C: Yeah, I don't think I knew like, anything.

G: You messaged me, while you were watching it, “What is up with this episode?” [both laugh] I think. At what point did that message come in?

C: When the guy is watching her in the shower. [laughs]

G: Honestly, when the shower scene was happening, I was like, "I almost forgot we were watching a Supernatural episode." I didn't. I did not forget. But in case I did forget, I would have remembered, [C laughs] is what I felt like.

C: What a completely illogical 40 minutes of my time this was.

G: Wait, you didn't like this episode?

C: No.

G: I like cases, and I like case episodes, and I like that there's a case.

C: None of it made sense to me. The emotional core is supposed to be that this guy loves this family and would do anything to protect them, and we don't even get justification for why he killed her husband? [G: No, yeah.] They're trying to tell one thing, and through other actions, they're trying to tell me that he just wants to fuck this woman.

G: No, [laughs] it's so funny because he talked about, “You and the kid are the only people- my only family, the only people who ever showed me kindness.” And it's like, I think the guy was also in the family?

C: You killed that kid's father and that woman's husband! [laughs]

G: And I think if there was a point in the story where the husband hits him, the dog or something, maybe we could understand it a bit better. I still would be like, “That is still her husband and his dad-” like, the kid's dad, so I don't know.

C: If Cal was shown to be abusive in some way to the dog or-

G: Or the family.

C: - anyone in his family, then I would understand. That would pull everything together. But there is no such scene. He's just kind of a deadbeat.

G: And like, it is so wild to me that one of the red herrings is, "This guy can drink a lot." [laughs] I find that so fascinating that they did that. Good on you, Supernatural, the show where everyone is drinking a lot all the time. [C: Yeah.] But I enjoy case episodes. What can we do? Many things. Probably not watch Supernatural is one of the things we can do. [C: True.] Except we can't! Because I love doing this podcast! So yeah, unfortunate. Or very fortunate. Who knows?

-

G: Spotify Wrapped is out, and podcasts also get their own Spotify Wrapped, and we just want to say thank you to the people who had us in their top 10, the people had us in their top 5, and specifically the 25 people who were listening to us as their number one podcast! [C: Thank you.] Thank you so much. It's so sweet and so wonderful. And thank you to the people, or I think one person, who has sent us regards regarding this.

We start the episode with a “Then” sequence. And our “Then” sequence actually goes all the way back to Madison. [C: Yeah.] Love it. [laughs] And like, I think the point is that they were trying to establish that one, Sam still has his memories, and so he remembers Madison. Two, the biggest red herring of this episode is that we think the whole time, pretty much, that it's a werewolf, but it's not. Yeah, that's pretty much it. Those are the reasons why Madison is here. And I think also that Sam being able to talk about Madison with levity as opposed to, you know, his like, "I don't care about Lisa or Ben or you,” which is the funniest fucking thing he ever said. [C: Yeah. Love it.] "You know how I pretend to care about Lisa? I actually don't." [laughs] So true. Aside from that, we just get regular schmegular stuff. And then we go to a guy who is- at first, I couldn't understand what he was saying. I think I had to open my subtitles to understand him, but he's talking to someone over the phone, and he's talking about either his dog or a kid. [laughs]

C: Dog.

G: Is he talking about the dog?

C: Yeah, because he asked if the person or whatever he's talking about pooped after being taken to the park specifically.

G: Yeah, you can say that about a baby. "Did you take the baby to the park? Did the baby have a bowel movement?"

C: Babies aren't supposed to poop in the park.

G: No, but like, I don't think he was saying like, "Did you pee or poop in the park?" He's saying in general, and the park is also there.

C: I think he is! You take dogs to the park in order to let them poop outside.

G: Yeah, I know. But you could maybe also do that to a baby with a diaper.

C: But why would they have to be in the park for it?

G: It's about nature and nurture, [C laughs] is what it's about.

C: I don't think you're supposed to train your children to poop outside.

G: No, this is very well may be the case. Well, unfortunate. I was very confused as to what was going on in this scene, truly out of my mind confused. But, alas!

C: He's also leaving a strip club to show that he's sleazy.

G: Yeah, there's like- they really focus on the name of the strip club, but I don't-

C: We've seen the Honey Wagon before.

G: Have we?

C: I think that was where they thought the siren worked.

G: Oh, that's fun. Or is it?

C: Let me check. Honey Wagon, Supernatural. Yeah, that's the name of the bar in “Sex and Violence.”

G: I can't believe you remember that! Good for you.

C: Thank you.

G: Anyway, as he gets in the car, there's like, a dog's perspective. We hear growling and stuff. It attacks him, but it's invisible, and he screams, cries, moans, throws up blood because he gets a blood splatter. He's dead! RIP. They make the dog invisible at this point.

C: I think we just don't see the angles.

G: No, because we see the guy get mauled by a thing that is supposed to be in front of him, but there's nothing in front of him.

C: Fair. Okay, this is supposed to be his own- Okay, no, this isn't his own dog. This is Lucky.

G: Yeah, this is Lucky killing the landlord, yeah.

C: Slay. Sam and Dean are eating lunch.

G: Can I say? I love the sets that they use this episode. The outdoor sets that they use are fun, and it feels so late Supernatural but also early. This scene, they're outside. They're in a roadside diner that is very much roadside, nothing else is there. It's just this goddamn diner. And I enjoyed that! It's such a fun look. It's such a fun look that is shockingly rare in Supernatural. We don't see it that much, but I enjoyed it tremendously, and I enjoyed the fact that they were on a rooftop. Love a rooftop. They were there. [C: True.] And the thing that they were in, the warehouse they were in, was also pretty fun. I love the sets this episode. Good for them.

C: Good for them. So Dean's on the phone with Bobby trying to figure out a way to get Sam's soul back that doesn't involve [both, dramatically] working for a demon!

G: No, it's so fun. You know, I do appreciate that like this part, it's all like, "I don't want to work for a demon. I don't want to work for a demon." And then later, he says a line that makes you realize that I guess just the fact that they're torturing is also a consideration for him. And I think the line was like, “Maybe we should check before we hand them over to be raped by demons” or something like that. [C: Right.] And I did go, “Aww, Dean cares!” [both laugh] which is like, the bar is on the floor. I did immediately go, “I don't think he cares that much.” I don't know, Grey. Maybe this is not the vibe. But for a second, I did go, “Oh my god! Dean actually cares beyond working for a demon being against his morals.”

C: I mean, he cares that they're torturing if the person they're torturing isn't a monster.

G: Is innocent, yeah.

C: [laughs] Which I think, yeah. Again, bar's-

G: Not even innocent or not innocent. Literally just monster or not monster. [C: Yeah.] If it was an innocent monster, he would still probably DGAF. [C: Yeah.] It is fascinating that they did that one episode with the vampires, Lenore, and they just never- Have they ever explored that kind of mindset ever again?

C: Regarding a vampire who doesn't want to feed on people?

G: Yeah, something similar with regards to other creatures, other monsters.

C: Not really. I guess this episode.

G: The closest they have come to it is, "What if a person is actually the monster?" [laughs] which is like-

C: In “The Benders”?

G: Yeah. That's the other thing that they were like, breaking out of the status quo of monster bad, human good. I don't know. I think here, we're also supposed to think the monster is horrible. This creature, the dog- Does the dog-

C: The dog's name is Lucky, but what is this guy's human name? [both laugh]

G: We're supposed to think Lucky was a creep who was a creep and a weirdo and a crepe and a weirdough, and he does not want to be there.

C: I think we're supposed to feel sympathy for him.

G: Yeah, when he went to the road, are we supposed to think that he was gonna kill himself? [C laughs]

C: I thought, for a second, he was trying to get hit by a car, but I think-

G: I did, too.

C: - I think he was just leaving.

G: “Why did Lucky the dog cross the road? To get to the other side.”

C: Yeah, parentheses Purgatory.

G: To get to Purgatory.

C: Anyway, Dean goes, "I mean, if Crowley thinks we're just gonna-” and Crowley appears right next to him and goes, “Crowley thinks you're just gonna what, Dean?”

G: Love him! And Sam looks up, revealing that he has been hearing this conversation all along. Love it.

C: Of course. Crowley reminds us that he and Bobby kissed, and then [G: Literally.] tries to give them a job, and Dean is incredibly resistant to it all. Crowley's like, “Sam would totally work for me. You'd sell your brother for a dollar right now, if you really needed a soda.” [G laughs]

G: Sam doesn't respond, and we get a shot of Dean kind of like waiting for Sam to go, “No, Crowley!”

C: "Nooo!"

G: "Nooo!" Except he doesn’t. And Dean's like, "Oh, okay.” [laughs]

C: Yeah, Dean says, “I've done some shady stuff in my time, but I am not doing this.”

C: But yeah, you've already worked for a demon in Hell. Crowley goes, “Yeah, you will,” and then he starts burning Sam's hand. [G: Yeah.] And he goes, “You like pain, Sam? You like Hell?” [laughs] The sex must go crazy. [G laughs]

G: I don't think that's what we're supposed to get in this scene, [C laughs] but okay, I shall support you, no matter what.

C: But yeah, he starts yelling at Dean that he can't negotiate because Crowley literally owns his brother. And then, when Dean seems to acquiesce, wow!

G: Wow. Which means agree, but only a little bit.

C: Sure, yeah, basically. I keep forgetting. And then he stops burning Sam's hand and heals it.

G: For a second, I thought what was happening here was he was making Sam experience a fraction of the pain he was experiencing in Hell.

C: Oh, that could be it.

G: And I was like, "I think Crowley's like, a little bit mean! I think he's like, mean for keeping Sam still there. I think it's like, not a very nice thing to do."

C: Yeah, you know, if I had to choose between whether it was nice or not nice, I would probably support the not nice side.

G: I would choose not nice. Crowley, have you changed your mind? Maybe you should change your mind? It's not that nice.

C: Yeah. Do you think maybe he just doesn't know that it's not nice, so that's why he's doing it? Like, maybe if we went up and told him, "That's not very nice." He would be like, “Oh, shit! I didn't realize!”

G: "Oh no! Damn it, I thought it was very nice, after all!" Yeah, maybe we should tell him. [C: Yeah.] Let's call, Crowley. We'll tell you.

C: Crowley, if you listen to Busty Asian Beauties: A Supernatural Commentary Podcast, stop it!

G: Don't do it!

C: Regarding the Sam thing. Keep listening.

G: Literally.

C: So he promises that if they get just one alpha live to him, then they'll get Sam's soul back. Very interesting how he uses Sam's bodily pain as leverage, even though Dean doesn't believe that's Sam right now.

G: Well, he believes, I think, that it's Sam's body, which he says later, like it's Sam's body and Sam's brain, but Sam isn't there. And so when Sam comes back, he's still going to have his body and his brain, I think, is the thought process. It could also just be the instinct of like, “That's my kid brother, and I don't really want him to be going, ‘Ouch! Ouch! Owie!’”

C: Yeah, I mean, Dean beat him half to death two episodes ago.

G: That's true, but you see, he was unconscious halfway through that, [C laughs] so he wasn't going. “Ouch! Ouch! Owie!”

C: I see. I see. Yeah. And also Dean probably thinks it's fine when he does it. [G laughs]

G: Yeah. Horrible.

C: Horrible. Crowley gives them a newspaper showing the cold open with the heart missing, and since it's not a full moon, Crowley thinks that this might be some kind of alpha werewolf that can turn whenevs. He disappears. It's kind of silly to me how against working for Crowley Dean is this episode because he was literally fine working with Crowley to find Pestilence last season. Sam was the one that was resistant, and Dean was like, "Okay, sure, if we gotta." He was only really just a little bit annoyed, and that's about it. But it's because Sam won't be against it this season, so they just give that to Dean.

G: We're supposed to assume, I think, that it's because of what the helping entails, which is torture, but again, it's such a nebulous fucking thing that they do with torture in Supernatural, and by nebulous, I do mean mind-boggling. [C: Yeah.] And so there's no follow-through in that aspect. No follow-through. So I don't know. Another thing is that it's never brought up, like Ruby. It's never brought up. [C: Yeah!] Which is such a weird thing. Last episode, we complained that it wasn't brought up. It's still not brought up here, and it's just such an odd choice to make to be like, "Oh, I remember, Dean. I have my memories. I remember Madison! [C laughs] And that's the only thing I remember from my past that is related to the events of this episode." Like, okay. Well, do you remember the demon that tricked you that you helped and could be the reason why you shouldn't help this one or something? Don't know.

C: I don't know.

G: Like at some point, Crowley goes, "I'm holding you hostage by withholding a thing that you want." That's also what Ruby did, but included an emotional aspect to it. Like, okay.

C: Okay.

-

G: Now, we're in the car. Sam is reading the newspaper. He's saying what they should be doing and what they should be doing. Dean is like, "Agh. I can't believe this! I'm also doing what you're doing, but I feel horrible! [C laughs] And you're feeling normo! How dare you be normo?"

C: He goes, "This is what you're gonna do?" And Sam says, "What am I doing?" And Dean says, "Crowley." So true! #Cram.

G: #Cram. And Sam says, "Oh, I just need to work the case because he got us by the short and curlies," [C: #Cram!] which is a horrible, horrible visual, [C laughs] but good for them. "What else are we supposed to do?" That's what Sam says. And Dean says, "Well, we're supposed to do it, but we need to feel bad about it!" [laughs] I cannot get over this! Ever since I noted that the thing about Supernatural is they want to do things, but they want to feel bad about them, about doing the bad things, and that's what makes it fine, it's impossible to unsee that that is the great big philosophy of the show. But yeah. And Sam says, "Look, I understand this is such a weird thing that's going on, but I still have- It's still me. Still same head, still the same memories." He says, "I still like the same music. I still think about Suzie Heizer."

C: What music, Sam?

G: What music, Sam? An important question.

C: Yeah, I think Word of God, he likes Fall Out Boy, but has he really shown himself to have that many musical tastes in the show besides that one band that he liked that Lucifer possessed?

G: And then that's much, much, much later.

C: That's much, much, much later?

G: Yeah. And he was also allegedly- Wasn't he listening to music that was like, bad, allegedly? The show treated it like it was bad music. Hair music. Or hair rock

C: Yeah. When Dean came back from the dead and he checked the iPod, was that when that came up?

G: Yeah. And Sam was like, "I'm listening to a podcast about blah blah blah blah blah blah." And then Dean pulled out the earphones, and it's hair metal or something.

C: Yeah, I think that's later.

G: Yeah, that is later. We get no aspect- it does make me a little bit sad that this show, the music of it is John and then Dean's music. That makes me sad. [C: Yeah.] What about Mary? What about Sam?

C: I guess Mary likes "Hey Jude."

G: Maybe Sam is woman-coded. [both laugh]

C: Oh my god!

G: People will say anything. No, but Mary does love "Hey Jude." She likes the Beatles. That's something we know of her.

C: Mary should watch "Takin' Over the Asylum."

G: I know! Mary, go watch it! [C laughs] Sam says that he still thinks about Suzie Heizer, who is from biology class, so either a student or a teacher.

C: I think they would say Ms. Heizer if it was a teacher.

G: But Dean says, "Like, biology class Suzie Heizer?"

C: No, yeah, it's like, why does Dean know about this girl?

G: Yeah, they're in different grades, so.

C: I guess maybe Sam confided in him about his crush or something.

G: Yeah, maybe. If so, that's sweet that Dean remembers.

C: Yeah. But part of the vibe is like, "Yeah, I also thought this girl in your class was hot," so.

G: Yeah, which is also weird. So whatever. That's why I'm assuming it's a teacher.

C: Weren't they at the same school campus in- I forgot the name of the episode.

G: Yeah, they were. They always were in the same pretty much school.

C: That can't always be true, though, because they're four years apart.

G: Are high schools and grade schools just fundamentally different places?

C: I guess the school they were at was like, maybe a combo middle school/high school. But yeah, I feel like a lot of middle schools are their own thing, and there's only three grades in there.

G: What are the three middle school grades?

C: 6th, 7th, 8th.

G: Oh. Why is it called middle school?

C: Because it's in the middle between 1st to 5th grade and 9th to 12th grade.

G: No, okay. Well, our definition is one to six is grade school, and then seven to ten is high school. [C: Interesting.] And then eleven and twelve is senior high school. Stupid fucking thing. [C laughs] Let's kill the Philippine government. Who said that? [C: I don't know.] Me, I said it.

Sam says, "Look, I know you don't trust me, but you gotta, Dean!" [both laugh] He doesn't say it like that, but he says that "I'm going to prove to you that I'm still your brother."

-

C: So they go to the dock, and there's a detective there, and he's Asian!

G: Asian! He's Asian. Look at this Asian man. Good for him.

C: Good for him. And they go up to him, and Sam immediately recreates the authority check fail in the church in Disco Elysium where Harry Du Bois calls Kim Kitsuragi, an Asian detective, a monkeyfucker. [laughs] 'Cause Sam calls him a mouth-breathing dick monkey. Basically the same thing.

G: That's crazy. [C laughs]

C: Yeah, it's supposed to be a horrible racial slur in Disco Elysium, [G laughs] and it doesn't not completely come across as racist here, I would say.

G: The detective just DGAF and just gives them info.

C: Yeah, he literally does not care. He just delivers the information to them. Yeah, so there was a dock worker who was killed, chest ripped open, heart missing, like the landlord before. And Sam asks about enemies, "And the detective says, 'Yeah, plenty. But you do realize these were animal attacks?'" And Dean goes, "There are no animals here in Buffalo, New York. What the fuck are you talking about? You think there's animals in here? There's an ocean nearby. You think that there could possibly be an animal in a place where there's an ocean nearby. Just any animal? You fucking idiot!" [laughs] And then it cuts to the next scene.

G: It could literally be a rabid dog. [laughs] [C: Yeah.] "Do you think there's a wolf?" What if there's a big fucking dog?

C: Yeah. Stupid as fuck. So in the motel, Dean's sleeping on a bed, face-down, but there's no Ackle's ass equation shot of it.

G: Yeah, but I wish there was. [laughs]

C: Huh. Five people at that party wish there was.

G: I think they were not Supernatural watchers. I think they were seeing Supernatural on Tumblr. It was that kind of party. People here were on Tumblr. [C: I see.] I feel like they were just seeing Supernatural on Tumblr or something. They were seeing gifsets of the Ackles ass equatio and not engaging with the material as well as I did. [C laughs] [C: I see.] And that's the only reason why they can objectify Dean Winchester in this way. If they watch it, they would be objectifying Castiel, and so I know that they didn't.

C: So true. So Sam's not slept, and has been doing research all night, which Dean thinks is creepy, but Sam’s like, “Not like I can help it!” The connection between the victims is something. They don't say yet, but they go to a house about it.

-

G: The house that they go to, Sam literally takes out- Is it a tranquilizer gun, or is it silver bullets?

C: I think it's just a regular gun with silver bullets.

G: I thought they were supposed to catch this guy or something.

C: Yeah, they are supposed to catch this guy, but I guess this is like, in case things go awry.

So they knock, and there's a woman, Mandy, and her little son Adrian. They- Sam and Dean say that they're here to question Cal Garrigan because they're misogynists, and I feel like they should have assumed that Mandy had just as much reason to kill those people as he did, which they do, but only after ruling out Cal. Which doesn't make any sense to me. The last main werewolf they dealt with was a woman. [G: Yeah.] They have no reason to view werewolves as more necessarily male.

So they go in. There's a dog, a German shepherd named Lucky, who's there. So Cal is Mandy's boyfriend, and he's sleeping because he was out all night drinking.

G: Oh, we kept on calling this guy the husband earlier.

C: Did I?

G: I did.

C: Is the issue that you didn't remember his name?

G: No, I kept on calling him "the husband."

C: Oh, and he's a boyfriend. No, you're right. I also called him a husband. Wait. So that's so crazy. [laughing] Is it like, "He's not really family, because they're not bound in sacred wedlock, so that's why it was fine for Lucky to kill him"?

G: Can I say?

C: What?

G: I would have the same belief. [laughs]

C: No, what? They live together! That's his kid.

G: You can live together. You can have a kid.

C: Well, I think they view each other as family.

G: [laughing] It's the sanctity of marriage [C screams] that makes a family.

C: No! Oh my god! We don't know if that's his kid, I guess, but I think the fact that they live together indicates, probably, that she views him as family.

G: You can literally live- You know what? Here's my take. If you're some fuckall guy, if you're not this kid's dad, and you live together, you're family. If you are this kid's dad, you don't have to be family to live together.

C: Yeah, that's fair, 'cause it wasn't exactly by choice.

G: So if it's the biological dad, yeah.

C: All right. Fine. Fine enough.

G: And if you live together, and you're dating, and you have a kid, and you're not married, what are you doing? What are you doing? That's my hot take.

C: Do you genuinely believe this?

G: [laughing] Yes, yes, I do. [C: Okay.] You don't have to think this is the correct belief. I also think maybe it's a little bit wrong, but like, not enough to change my mind.

C: Yeah. Alright.

G: Yeah. Yeah. I think for me, the only reason why you would do that is if you're already planning to leave each other, in which case, yeah. Hell yeah. But that is not family.

C: [laughing] You're really saying sentences. [G laughs] Alright, well, I don't agree with any of that. Moving on...

G: How dare you? I stood by your side earlier when you were saying things that I completely forgot about!

C: Wait! What things?

G: I don't know, but I said earlier that I will stand by you, no [burps] matter what. And I literally burped in the middle of saying that. I'm so sorry.

C: It's cool. Wait, earlier as in earlier in this episode?

G: Yeah, I said, "Crystal, I'll support you no matter what."

C: [laughing] Why do I feel like that didn't happen?

G: I am sure it did, and when I record I will replay it right here, right now. Replay.

[beep]

C: He goes, "You like pain, Sam? You like Hell?" The sex must go crazy. [G laughs]

G: I don't think that's what we're supposed to get in this scene, [C laughing] but okay, I shall support you, no matter what.

[beep]

C: What if you just record yourself saying that, and you're like, "This is part of the edit. Don't think about it too much, Crystal."

G: No, yeah? No, I'm so sorry to people who may be affected by my harsh words.

C: Yeah. [laughs] Well, anyway. [G laughs] So yeah, Cal was out late. He was clearly very drunk. He slept in those clothes. He blacked out, probably, so these are all suspicious things. And they reveal that the reason that they're suspicious of him is that the two people who were killed were his brother and his landlord. Regarding his brother, the last time he visited, Cal called the cops on him because he was violent towards Mandy. And for the landlord, Cal and Mandy are behind on rent payments, and they were going to be evicted. Both Sam and Dean are just glaring this guy down, and he's just like, "I'm confused." So Sam and Dean are like, "Okay, fine. Let's go." They're pretty sure it's him, and Sam thinks that they should just kidnap him and deliver him to Crowley now. But yeah, Grey, as you mentioned, Dean says that they have to make sure before they hand him over to be tortured.

-

G: So they both go to watch Cal, and they talk about how he is in this place now. They followed him through several locations, and he's still drinking a lot because he went to like, a bar, a strip club, a chili dog joint- so important [C laughs]- had seven or eight nightcaps, and now is having Scotch and is just completely fine, like upstanding, no anything.

C: Did Lucky kill him because all the drinking was making them behind on rent?

G: You really think so?

C: You already got the landlord.

G: Yeah! You can just not pay the rent anymore. The land is officially yours.

C: [laughs] Yeah, that's how it works. There's no replacement.

G: Yeah, no, it's officially yours.

C: Yeah, exactly. The landlord's will left that apartment to them.

G: Exactly. But what happens is Sam and Dean are like, "Oh, nothing's gonna happen. Let's just wait it out. I'm sure he will attack in a couple hours or something." So they head out, and as Cal, later in the morning, heads out, we see that Lucky is there as he's trying to enter the car. And he asks Lucky, "What the hell are you doing here?" And then Lucky kills that guy! [laughs] [C: Yup.] Kills that fucking guy. And as Cal is on the floor, dead, we see, we pan up to see a guy. It's just a dude, and he's naked, I'm pretty sure, at this point. [C: Yes.] And he has blood all over his body from killing this guy.

C: Yeah. The nakedness is definitely a choice. It is to just make him seem [both] creepier or whatever. They could choose to have him shift with clothes on or whatever.

G: It's also just a visual cue that there's a dog now. I would say it does work later in the-

C: Yeah, 'cause the clothes left on the ground indicate [G: Yeah.] that somebody shifted.

G: Yeah. And so during the fight scene, it's like, "Ooh, and they have to look out for a dog now!" The next scene is this guy, Lucky the guy, [both laugh] standing over the bed of Mandy, and he's just looking.

C: He's still naked.

G: Yeah, naked, bloodied, looking looking looking. And then he transforms into a dog and starts licking Mandy and then sleeps by her.

-

C: She wakes up, and Lucky is being very physically affectionate. She notices Cal isn't there but thinks that's typical. And she calls Lucky "the only decent boyfriend she has ever had."

G: Is the reason why they made her a girlfriend and not a wife because they want it so that she's not called later? [C: Not called?] They won't call her because she's not the wife, she's a girlfriend. Is that true?

C: I don't think so.

G: 'Cause I can't think of a reason- When the episode was happening, I can't think of a reason why she hasn't been called. So is that the show trying to justify it by being like, "She wasn't called because she was a girlfriend, not a wife."

C: Well, did they know who this guy was at the- When the police found his body and took him away, did they find ID on him? Did they know who he was, or did Sam and Dean just contact her because they recognized the body?

G: Sam and Dean went there. Do you think they recognized the body, and that's how they knew. But they said, "Nobody called you?" Sam and Dean asked, "Nobody called you?"

C: Well, yes, probably they thought that the cops would have figured out is- How would they know that she was- You mean like, 'cause there's no records of their relationship in any public system, so the cops wouldn't know to call her about it?

G: Yeah.

C: That could be it. But your phone numbers aren't on a marriage certificate.

G: Yeah, but you can go, "Oh, there's a person. Let's track down the address." [C: Yeah.] Let's go to the address and go, "Hey, your husband's dead."

C: So anyway, Mandy goes into the shower, and we see Lucky go stand in the doorway, and he's like, panting and staring at her as she undresses and gets in.

G: No, yeah. No, yeah. [laughs]

C: Yeah. Certainly a scene. And okay, being like, "I care about-"

G: [laughing] Why are they doing this to this beloved dog actor? So sorry, dog actor! [C laughs]

C: No, the dog's really cute. Love that dog. Good job playing a pervert. [G laughs] This is the whole thing- No, say your thing first.

G: No, no, no, I was just gonna say I love the word "pervert."

C: Yeah, it's got a great sound to it.

G: It does have a great sound to it, like annui. Or ennui? That's how to pronounce it. Words with great sounds: ennui, [both] pervert, ever- [laughs]

C: I wonder how far away those are on the Divergent Association Task.

C: Yeah, guess we'll never know.

C: So this is the thing I said earlier about how like it's supposed to be like, "This guy is kind of a hero who just loves this family so much, and it was cool of him to kill other people to protect them." But like, and that can exist in- It can happen at the same time as him being attracted to this woman, but like, [G: Yeah.] I feel like they just don't really try to combine those things in any way that makes sense. If they wanted to do a "And he was in love with this woman!" and we're supposed to feel sympathy about that like, okay, go ahead. Sure. I believe this story.

G: And I do think there is also a situation where he's in love with this woman and the guy is a decent father and a decent boyfriend and all that crap.

C: Right. So you need multiple things to be happening for all the components of the story to work, and yeah, they're not being put in here. Are we just supposed to think that the fact that he drinks a lot and doesn't come home means he deserves to die? [both laugh]

G: Well, much to say about John Winchester, then.

C: For real. And also like, he did murder people who [G: No, yeah, exactly.] weren't the best people, but like, [laughs] Sam and Dean would not be like, "It's okay to kill those people" under most circumstances, so [G: Yeah.] what's up with that?

-

G: They went to her place, and when they realize that they don't- that she doesn't know what's going on- Before they went in, Sam asks Dean if he can do it, and by "it," he means, [laughs] put Mandy in the trunk and shove her up to Crowley, well, one, they didn't do that with Lucky. They didn't end up doing that with Lucky because I think it's very clear that it's not the alpha, so they didn't.

G: Yeah, I don't know why they thought Mandy was the alpha. Aren't the alphas that we've seen before- they didn't really have an established civilian life, right? [G: Yeah.] They're just kinda hanging around being creepy in places. But I guess just the idea of a werewolf being able to shift every day just means to them that this is the alpha, even though Sam already encountered regular degular werewolves that were shifting on the half moon? Kind of confusing.

G: Yeah. Mandy's kid is sick, and she's like, you know, taking care of him as he's like lying on the couch, sick. And Lucky comes in and gives a toy, and then the toy breaks, and they're like, "Wow! Lucky is such a good boy! Lucky knows that you're sick, and he wants you to feel better!" blah blah blah blah blah blah, which is also what we say to the kid when the cats come to her when she's sick.

C: Aw.

G: It's true, but this dog is a creep. [laughs]

C: So the thing about Lucky holding onto the toy and not letting go of it until the leg breaks off when Mandy tries to take it out of his mouth-

G: Is that supposed to be a metaphor?

C: What I thought was- I thought we were supposed to- because of all the standing over her naked stuff, I thought we were supposed to think that he was gonna come for the kid next, and like, [G: Noo.] this is just a sign of like resentment that he felt. [G laughs] I think we're supposed to think that he's gonna come for the kid next, but then later, they talk to him, and he's nice!

G: He's niceys to the kid!

C: Yeah. So like, why'd he break the toy, then?

G: It was just an accident.

C: If he wasn't gonna murder that child, why didn't he let go of the toy in the mouth? [both laugh] Those are the same thing!

G: Well, one, it was an accident. Two, I think it's supposed to establish that he has trouble letting go. [both laugh] And what if he does? What if he does have trouble letting go, Crystal? Have you considered that?

C: Yeah, you're right. I'm sorry.

G: As they go head out, that's when Sam and Dean come in. Mandy is walking the dog, leaves her kid by himself, all alone.

C: Yes.

G: I would have called someone to walk the dog, personally.

C: Well, walking the dog can be a really fast thing.

G: Yeah, but a child alone in the house. What if a stranger comes in? What if a stranger knocks-

C: There's locks.

G: - and the kid answers the door?

C: Tell the kid not to answer the door.

G: Yeah, but what if the guy goes, "Hey, your mom told me that you can answer the door for me, and-"

C: Wait, so do you think that no child who's conscious should ever be alone in the house?

G: A little bit, yeah! [laughs]

C: [laughing] You're revealing so many things today.

G: What if you accidentally left the gas open? The kid's just gonna die because the kid doesn't know what gas smells like.

C: And if you stayed in there, [laughs] then both of you would die.

G: No, but you would know, because you would know. You would connect the dots 'cause you're an adult.

C: Well, I think you could just be a person who doesn't leave the gas open. [laughs]

G: Yeah, but what if? Etc.

C: I think you can just not leave the gas open.

G: What if the kid goes, "Oh, I'm thirsty. I need water." And then they go and get water, and then they open the water, and they leave it open, and the house floods.

C: They probably won't do that. I think that if you know your kid-

G: The kid is sick! The kid is sick. You don't know what the kid is gonna do. The kid is sick.

C: Does being sick make children that stupid?

G: Yes! Yes! Not stupid, but it makes you forgetful, it makes you not consider things that you would otherwise consider. And when you're a child, I feel like that is double.

C: How old is this-

G: What if the child trips over while getting water, and now just has a bloody knee and a bloody head?

C: That can happen if you're in the bathroom in the house with the kid, too.

G: Yeah! [laughing] And like, you shouldn't! [C laughing]

C: Okay, you're just doing a bit at this point? We should probably move on.

G: No no no. The bathroom, I think, is fine, because that's quick. I think the ones that you shouldn't leave a kid at at all is when they're eating and when they're sick.

C: In case they choke?

G: I believe that. Because what if they choke? And what if they trip over and die?

C: Okay, well, what if you go to the bathroom while they're sick? Is that allowed?

G: No. I think if they're just solidly in bed at that point, you can.

C: Wait. [laughing] You're not allowed to go to the bathroom if your kid is sick and still awake?

G: Children are fucking weird, and children will do things when they're sick and start sleepwalking and shit.

C: Yeah, and sometimes you just have to let that happen! You tell them like, "Here are the guidelines to keep yourself safe."

G: Sometimes, a kid will fall down the stairs.

C: Yeah?

G: Yeah! Just let the kid fall down the stairs?

C: And they'll do that whether or not you're there!

G: Yeah, but if you're there, you can go, "Okay, let's go back. Let's not fall down the fucking stairs."

C: Yeah. And if you're out walking the dog for like five minutes, when you get back, you can say that.

G: [laughing] After they've fallen down the stairs and hit their head!

C: Yeah, that's unfortunate.

G: Well, some things a kid can experience, and some things after you get hit by a car, you're dead. So, you know.

C: Yes, I agree that some things will kill a child, and those things can happen whether or not you're there. [G laughs]

G: But they're less likely to happen if you're there!

C: Maybe. But I think there's an extent of caution that-

G: How old do you think this kid is?

C: I don't know. Like, five?

G: Do not leave a five-year-old sick by himself! If it's a ten-year-old, it's fine.

C: You send kids to school, and they're not always supervised there.

G: They are always supervised in school! Have you been in school?

C: They can run off somewhere.

G: They can, and there's guards in the school.

C: There's guards in the school?

G: There's security in the school, yeah. There's a guy guarding the gate-

C: There were not guards-

G: There's a guy guarding the gate.

C: There weren't guards at my school.

G: And so when a kid is running off into the road to get hit by a car, the guard can go, "No!"

C: There were not guards. I think there were gates, but I don't think they were fully locked.

G: They were gates and people who were guarding them. They're not locked, obviously. What if there's an emergency and you need to go out fast?

C: Then they can unlock them. I think we just had a different security and infrastructure in our schools.

G: Yeah, that is probably true. I went to school with guards.

C: I don't recall guards.

G: And I think that's true for every school I see, public or private, has had guards.

C: Yeah, I believe that. I don't recall guards at my schoo.

G: What if a kid goes out into the road? What if a kid goes out, and then it's taken by someone? Just someone?

C: Then that would be bad. You tell the kid, "Don't go out," and you try to make sure you have a good head count.

G: [laughs] Sure, yeah. If a fucking kidnapper gets your child, that's it. It's over.

C: Well, yeah. You could pay the ransom?

G: I am enamored by this confrontation. "You should leave a child when the child is sick" [laughs] is- I could not believe this. You're gonna die-

C: For a five-minute dog walk? Yes! Who cares?

G: I don't think it's a five-minute dog walk! She's outside, talking to people!

C: Yeah, so? You can talk to people when you're walking your dog outside for five minutes?

G: She's standing in the corner of the road!

C: Right, next to the house, which I guess is closer to what you want from her.

G: [laughs] Sure, yeah. I still cannot believe she walked that dog. Why can't she call someone and be like, "Hey."

C: She was so selfish for showering for five minutes earlier, too?

G: I don't think it's selfish. I think it's stupid! Which are different things.

C: [laughing] You're not allowed to shower when there's a child in the house?

G: No, child in the house is fine. If the kid can take care of itself, it's fine, but it's just-

C: Okay, until the child is ten, you can't shower unless they're asleep?

G: Sick! Sick! The child is sick!

C: Who cares? [laughing]

G: Oh my god! The child is- What if the child is lying down and then vomits and then chokes in their own vomit?

C: Well, you lay them on their side before you go to shower? [G laughing]

G: God! What if they turn? What if they turn in their sleep?

C: That's unfortunate.

G: Oh, god! [laughing] Are you seriously believe this, or are you messing with me at this point?

C: I do genuinely, strongly believe everything I've just said.

G: Well, I think kids feel sad when you leave them when they're sick, which I do often feel, and I did often feel as a kid.

C: I think you could say, "I'm going to walk the dog for a few minutes, or else it's gonna poop inside the house. You understand this. You have my phone number."

G: I don't understand why you can't call your neighbor.

C: To walk the dog?

G: Yeah!

C: I mean, you could, but your neighbor would say, "You're literally crazy for doing this." [laughs]

G: Well, that's because the Americans are individualists. [laughs]

C: I think that- Yeah, I think that an American neighbor might be less likely to. But I don't think that individualism has that much to do with the level of concern you're supposed to feel about leaving your sick kid in the house for five minutes.

G: A think a kid who is sick- Kids who are sick are not like adults who are sick.

C: I know.

G: Yeah! And you shouldn't leave them!

C: Many things are not like adults who are sick. [laughs]

G: No, what I'm saying is, there is a level of danger associated with a kid being sick.

C: Okay, if you have a dog, you leave the dog alone at home.

G: A kid is more likely to start fucking seizuring when they have a fever, for example.

C: Mm-hm. Yeah. And that's unfortunate.

G: Oh my god! And it's ideal, during those situations, you're there so you know, and you see. What if the seizure is done when-

C: I think it's ideal. I don't think it's necessary.

G: Well, I'm not gonna concede on this point, and neither will you.

C: Okay, I also won't, so we can move on, as I suggested. So-

G: What do I do with all this? Do I keep it in the edit, or do I-?

C: I think you can cut it. I mean, if you feel like it's a debate where you do want other people's input on it because of how strongly both of us feel in different ways, [G: Okay.] you can keep some of it.

G: Okay. If you are listening to this episode and you just heard that discussion, kindly send in an ask, a comment, a response, a DM, an email or whatever saying what you would do in this situation and if you think me or Crystal is right, and also how many kids you have raised. Thank you!

C: Thank you!

G: But anyway, they go back in, and she's talking to these guys. And Sam and Dean are like, "We need to take you," and she goes, "I can't, because my kid is sick." [laughs]

C: Yeah.

G: [laughing] And they tell her to go call a neighbor, and she's like, "I can't believe you're doing this to me." I thought for a second she was gonna go, when she was listing things, I thought she was gonna go, "Oh, I can't because my kid is sick and my boyfriend just died!" [C laughs] but she didn't. Her kid literally is just sick. And they tell her that, you know, she's in the vortex of all of this that are related to her. Also, earlier, [laughs] before she walks the dog, the dog doesn't want to go on a walk. [laughs] The dog is intently watching the news, which I did think was fun, and she found a little bit of blood on the dog, and that is wonderful. Love a dog that watches TV, just like that one dog who was watching us on the television-

C: Yeah, shout out.

G: - by that one asker from a long, long, long time ago. If you're still listening, shout out to the dog, and to you. Sam and Dean, they come in, and they ask her, "Oh, so your kid is sick. Were you with the kid all night?" And she goes, "Yeah, I was just gone. I had half an hour of sleep, maybe." So she watched over her kid the entire night. And it's so fascinating to me that she says this, and Dean goes, "Can we talk to your kid?" obviously leading to somewhere, and Sam was like, "What would that accomplish, Dean? How dare you even suggest we waste our time when it's so obvious where it's going?" So maybe Sam isn't a better hunter. Maybe he's actually a worse hunter.

C: Well, no, I think what Sam thinks is, he knows why Dean is asking, but she had the half hour of sleep, and that's enough for her to have gone out and killed Cal.

G: You think so. Or to have transformed even without her knowledge.

C: Yeah, 'cause, later, he says, "She still had time to wolf out, Dean." Like, "The last werewolf was in bed, with me, and she wolfed out." [both laugh]

G: No, yeah, I think they also just never really brought up the fact that Madison didn't know and that that's an important part of that episode. That she didn't know she was a werewolf. Here-

C: I think they know. Because they they think that Cal blacked out and did all the killings, so I think they are aware of it.

G: So you think it's implied, that that's the implication.

C: Yeah.

G: Okay, yeah. And also, here, I suppose they were like, "She slept for thirty minutes. Then that means-"

C: Yeah.

G: Okay. I mean, from what it looks like, the dog also went out when she was sleeping, which makes sense because if the dog was missing while she was awake, that would be weird. [C: Yeah.] So it was the same thirty minutes that he slept in, so she's still a suspect. [C: Yeah.] Sam says that her alibi is a lie. Yeah, he brings up Madison, and Dean goes, "Don't make this personal." [C laughs] So true.

They split their tasks so that Dean is gonna go out and look at the crime scene some more, and Sam's gonna stay with Amanda. And my immediate response was like, "Whoa, don't do that," and so is Dean's. But Sam insists, "Dean, I can do my job, and you can just trust me on this one." And it's like, okay.

C: [laughs] I would not have trusted Sam on that one. Well, wow.

G: Well, first of all, I also would have not, so. But Dean did acquiesce.

C: He did. I just think it's so wild that in the beginning of Season 5, he wouldn't split up from Sam because he was like, "You're gonna go off and drink demon blood. I don't trust you." But like, now he's putting this woman's life at risk with soulless Sam, and he's willing to trust him on this? I don't know I wouldn't have weighted those in the way that Dean did in levels of trust.

G: Yeah. It's because it's Sam doing something to affect himself, which Dean frowns upon more than he would Sam doing something bad to other people. [C: Yeah.] And here, it's not like Sam can get worse. [laughs] He's gonna continue being soulless, no matter what.

C: Sure. But later, Dean does say that Sam's soul is less important than getting a 150 people not turned into creatures, so like.

G: Yeah, but I think that's a different computation, that one.

C: Yeah, one person versus 150.

-

C: So Sam's watching the house. Yeah, he sees Lucky turn into a naked man.

G: Lucky the guy, yeah. And it's just this tense scene where Sam's trying to hide in the shadows with his gun, trying to get a clear shot, while Lucky, he gets dressed. He goes outside. He sniffs around because he can sense that there's maybe somebody around. He talks to a guy who's played by the Gunner Lawless guy.

G: Is that true?

C: Yeah.

G: So fun.

C: You recognized him, right? You were like, "He looks familiar."

G: No, absolutely not.

C: Really? I was like, "I have seen this man. I know who this is, but I don't know who it is." So then I looked it up, and yeah, it's Gunner Lawless guy. But yeah, so he's talking with him. It seems like a tense conversation. They seem to have come to some agreement. And yeah, Sam's still trying to shoot. He fails to before Lucky realizes for sure that he's there and takes off running. It's fun. We see him jump over a fence, and Sam jumps over a fence, etc. until Lucky runs into the street and gets hit by a car! So true. And then the people inside the car freak out and take him into the car to take him to a vet. And Sam starts yelling like, "Hey, wait! That's my dog!" He just has a predilection for dogs who are hit by cars because of him.

G: No, for real. Well, this is his first. The second dog is in Season 8, so it hasn't happened yet. He will acquire, after this one, is the correct answer.

C: You're right. You're right. Sorry for the incorrect tense. In the motel room, Dean's looking at the phone, thinking about calling Lisa but not doing it in order to establish Lucky as somewhat of a mirror for Dean.

G: [laughing] No!

C: This guy? Like, they couldn't offer any empathy to Aaron Birch, [laughing] but this guy is a mirror to Dean, apparently. [G: No! I didn't-] Because he loves a family with a now-single mom and child. Son, specifically.

G: [screams] I did not connect that.dot at all. I was like, "There's a phone out. Of course he's going to try to contact Lisa and then not do it." God, that's hilarious.

C: 'Cause later, he's like, "I understand you. You love that family." during the interrogation.

G: [screams] No! No! You're right! You're right! Well, that is crazy.

C: They're trying to do a mirror thing.

G: "Dog Dean Afternoon" rights, I think!

C: For realsies.

G: Oh, that's so fun.

C: Yeah. But he decides not to call Lisa, and Sam calls him and explains who the creature is. I guess they also eat hearts in Supernatural, which is why they were mistaken for werewolves, and also, silver will also affect them, and they will infect you and turn you with a single bite. How do werewolves turn people?

G: I think also with a bite. 'Cause that's what Sam found on- what's her name? Madison. [C: Yeah.] He found a bite on her, right? But just a human, just a regular guy bite. [C: Uh-huh.] I suppose it could also be just a regular guy bite for this one in the Supernatural world.

C: Maybe. 'Cause he says, "They infect you with a single bite. Otherwise, they're basically a werewolf cousin," implying that werewolves don't. So I'm confused.

G: Wait, let's see. Let's look at that lline.

C: I'll look at the werewolf Supernatural Wikipedia page.

G: Because I think the "anywhere, anytime" is the difference in the lore. So I don't understand, too-

C: Yeah, so why isn't the "otherwise" sentence right after that one?

G: Yeah, there's a clause that is misplaced here, Sam Winchester.

C: Yeah, it's just a bite.

G: I love how this episode kind of shows them being a little bit bad at their job, too. Sam didn't catch this guy and Dean couldn't do that fucking shot. Love that scene, by the way.

C: When he's trying to yank the gun out of the crack in the glass or-? No no no, I liked that scene. You're talking about how he couldn't make it from the roof.

G: Yeah, he couldn't snipe that fucking guy.

C: No, I don't get it. Did he only have one bullet?

G: No no no, it's just they will scatter immediately after.

C: Yeah, fair enough.

G: "We get only one shot, Sam. One shot." The John F. Kennedy shooter shot like, two times. [laughs]

C: Slay.

G: And the second one is the one that hit!

C: Anyway, Sam says that he didn't get him, but he knows that he's at the animal hospital.

G: And they go, and like, [both laugh] it's like a pound, but it's like the confinement room of an animal hospital. So these dogs are like, confined, basically. [laughs] And they go there, and the dog's just there in a cage. Honestly, this is a really good setup for a case where the case is that the dog is a guy. [both laugh] Like, do you know what I mean? [C: Yeah.] It's a pretty good turn of events. In "Dog Dean Afternoon," the dogs are dogs, and Dean turns into a dog who can understand dog speak. Well, he doesn't turn into a dog. He turns into a guy who can understand dog speak, so when they go to the animal shelter, I think that one was actually a pound, 'cause he lets the dogs go afterwards. [both laugh] He lets the dogs out, and it was him. Literally unrelated to all this. I just wanted to bring up "Dog Dean Afternoon."

C: Lovely.

G: Dean crouches down, eye-level to the dog, and shows him the bullet case and goes, "This is all silver, just so you know that we warned you." And then he goes, "Yeah, we're gonna go out with us, okay?" And he holds up a chain, and then they do.

C: Well, he goes, "We could do this the easy way," showing him clothes, "or the hard way," showing him the chain.

G: Ohh! Is that what happens? Okay.

C: Yeah, and Sam laughs! Dean looks at him-

G: Sam, honestly, was a little bit mean this episode! I know he was gonna put that woman in a trunk and everything, [C laughs] but like, this was a little bit mean! Sam's being mean.

C: But it wasn't mean of Dean to say it? [laughs]

G: No, no, no, the part later where he keeps on throwing a ball to get the guy to catch it.

C: [laughing] Oh, yeah, that was mean.

G: That one was mean. This one, they're both equally mean because they are both making jokes about it. And honestly, I don't think it's mean. I think Dean saying it was a factual. He was trying to intimidate, and so I understand. [C: Yeah.] And then Sam just laughed a little bit because it is a bit funny.

C: Yeah. He goes, "What? Soul or not, that's funny." Good for him.

G: What happens is Lucky is now tied up as a dude in a room in a motel, and then they're interviewing him, and then they go like, "Oh, this is silver, and we can scratch you with silver before you start talking" or something. And Sam is asking questions like, "I mean, why did you shack up with a family? Is it like a kink thing?"

C: So real.

G: And "Do you like playing with your food? Roll over, Lucky. Speak." And the framing that they use, it's just his face. Oh my god, hi, Phil! It's just Sam's face in a way that I did enjoy. I enjoyed that he was mean and off-putting, and mean in a mean-spirited way. He wasn't mean for intimidation tactics, it seems like! [C: Right.] Like, he was just mean! And I support that!

G: So what this guy says is that- what Dean says is that this family, you love them. You care about them because you take care of every threat that comes near them, including the guy in the family. [C laughs] And he says, "What we want to know is, who is that guy that you were talking to?" And Lucky is cagey, but Dean says that like, "What's gonna end up happening is the girl and the kid are gonna be put in danger." And he does say "the girl."

C: Yeah, which is weird.

G: It is off-putting because obviously, this is a grown woman. But like obviously, the wording of "the girl" is like, narratively significant. Or not narratively significant, but that's a cliche term, right? Like, "save the girl," "get the girl."

C: Yeah. I mean, doesn't he also refer Lisa as "a girl" or "his girl" at points?

G: Yeah, I suppose. But like, I think because you can call someone "the woman." No, "the girl" is the- I don't know. I just think putting this here, he could have very easily said that "You're gonna put that woman and her kid in danger" or "that woman and the little boy in danger," and that would make complete, perfect sense. But the reason for putting "the girl" here is to claim that stereotype or claim that cliche. I'm pretty sure it's called a cliche, when you use that, it's called a cliche, right? I think.

C: Yeah, maybe. I believe it.

G: You're using the cliche term for it. So it's supposed to call into your consciousness the idea of saving the girl or getting the girl, which just makes it a little bit more uncomfortable [laughs] than it already is, [C: Agreed] the implication of it, rather than just saying that "you're gonna save the woman" or something.

C: Yeah, also, I was wrong. Bobby calls Lisa and Ben "a woman and a kid," so they do use "woman" there. So yeah, this is especially pointed, the fact that they're using "girl."

G: Yeah. And Dean says that their angle is helping those two people and that's why, you know, he has to cooperate with them. And basically, what is the information revealed to us is that there's a guy, but it's not just him. There's so many of them. I think he says five, right? They have their five in a pack.

C: He says there's 30.

G: Oh, yeah, it's 30 to 150, is what he said. But are they 30 in a pack? I thought there was five of them, and then thirty total or something. But his point is like there's more of them than what he even knows of, and he doesn't really know the boss that they have, just that they have one, and that guy will speak to them to do something when it's time to do something. Their plan is to turn 30 to 150 in one night by biting every person in a family.

C: Yeah, also, specifically, he was recruited because he was formerly homeless, and they just were like, "If we bite you, then you'll be strong and fast, and I guess can find a place to stay." [G: Yeah.] And I do think that this is interesting in terms of the recruitment tactics that we've been seeing so far this season have been vampires and then this. [G: Yeah.] And yeah, this whole I don't know preying on people-

G: - who are vulnerable of some kind.

C: - who are at risk, yeah.

G: So that's the info that we got.

C: I mean, I'm glad that they do make this character sympathetic because a lot of the tragedy is the whole like recruiting people who are at risk thing, which I feel like we didn't get a lot of sympathy for the girls in the vampire episode. So yeah, I am still glad that they made this guy a sympathetic character. I do think it's unfortunate that they then turn it so that the horror is these formerly homeless men about to turn on nice, suburban families. [both laugh] [G: Yeah.] Like, I think that's a little iffy. What if the horror was just the homeless men on the street getting turned? That's pretty bad already. [G: Yeah.] But yeah, unfortunate.

G: Anyway, this entire time, Sam is being a fucking asshole. So he's getting a ball, throwing it around, and going, "Fetch." I don't know. At some point, what does he go?

C: He whistles and throws the ball.

G: Oh, yeah. [laughs] He keeps on getting the ball and then throwing it. What's wrong with him? Well, he's soulless, number one, and that's why he's mean, allegedly. But anyway-

C: But he's supposed to not have any feelings. He's supposed to be doing things towards a particular aim. But this does seem like he has a feeling of thinking this guy sucks and wanting to make fun of him.

G: Amusement. I don't think it's like he's wanting to make fun of this guy because the guy sucks. I think he's pushing the limit. He's like, curious. I think that's it. Because it doesn't seem like he is bullying this guy in a way that is coming from a place of "I think you're beneath-" He does the guy's beneath him. But like, it's not coming from the place of "I want to make fun of you, and that's it." It's like, "Wait, I'm curious. If I whistle, are you gonna be into it like a dog would be? How much of a dog are you?" That's the kind of question he was asking, I think. Yeah, anyway, Dean says that "You have to cooperate with us because if you don't, your girl and kid are going to be in danger, and they're the only people who have ever shown you kindness in your life, so you might as well help us."

C: Yeah. Also, he implies that Lucky would have to kill that kid, but that's not true. He'd be turning that kid. I guess I don't actually see what's so wrong with turning them if they can control how they change. They could just decide to keep staying human and keep living exactly the way they are.

G: But they will be- they'll be tied to his pack. And that's family. [laughs]

C: Okay, but they're already tied to this pack, right? Why would them being turned mean that they need to listen to the leader more and become dogs in another house? [G: Ah.] There's no actual reason why that be the case.

G: They can be actively attempted to be harmed by the pack, right?

C: But they're already that. I'm saying that turning them doesn't give the pack any more leverage over them.

G: Oh, you're right, yeah. So why is it an inherently bad thing? Well, because Sam and Dean are hunters, and they're going to kill them if they get turned. [laughs]

C: Yeah. But like, I guess to Lucky, why is that an inherently bad thing?

G: I think it's like-

C: And also, why would the pack think they would be willing to go through with the plan to keep turning people?

G: If we're gonna go all psychological on Lucky, I think it's just the desire to preserve what is. [C: Yeah.] I don't think he's thinking necessarily that it's a good or bad, just that it's a good time right now. Why does it have to change? And if this changes, he's gonna have to reckon with the fact that this family is gonna know him. [C: Mm.] So that's something.

C: Yeah, I suppose so. But I guess this is also with the vampire recruiting thing, right? 'Cause they were like, "Oh, once we turn them, the guys will just be into continuing to bite girls because they love pedophilia, and the girls we're gonna mind control them into doing it." So I don't- what was the plan here? Because before, it was vulnerable people, and it was like, "You can either die on the street or do this." That's like a reason. But like, why would you do this?

G: First of all, in the lore of this thing, you can turn into anything, which is like, pretty fun. [laughs]

C: But why would you want to bite other people?

G: No, not saying that at all. I'm still on the conversation of whether it's honestly such a bad thing. [C: Yeah.] And also, all of the people who are going to be that way with you are dog lovers because they all have pet dogs! So like, that's pretty fun. You have your little clubs.

C: Just hang out.

G: Why you would want to bite other people. Maybe you want more people in your club. [both laugh] I don't know! It's like how, you know, people are dating right now through running. People say that, right? People are dating through running.

C: I've never heard of that, but I believe you.

G: Apparently, they're also doing that in Manila. Who would have thunk? It's like a worldwide phenomena, maybe. All cultures, as Sam Winchester would say. [C: Yeah.] Yeah. But maybe this is the new running club. [laughs] You meet people via the "I'm gonna turn into a dog" club.

C: I guess so.

G: I know some people are gonna be into that.

C: That's true. As Sam asks, "Is it a kinky thing?"

G: [laughs] Literally.

C: This plan just seems kind of dumb to me. I don't understand.

G: It is a convoluted thing.

C: Why can't you just be out, biting people, regular style?

G: I don't really like or understand the whole monster bit of this episode. I don't really understand what they're doing. And for a second, I also just didn't understand what was happening after this because like, it's not like they can catch the alpha at this point, right? [C: Right.] They don't know where the alpha is. They don't know who it is, and etc etc. And so honestly, after this, I was like, "What's the point? What are they- Saving the family? What's going on?"

C: Yeah, I think that was the point.

G: That was it?

C: It was mostly a red herring-filled adventure where Sam-

G: Literally DGAF.

C: - realizes that he wants his soul back and Dean realizes he's willing to work for Crowley if it means Sam gets his soul back.

G: Yeah, okay, got it.

-

C: Dean is saying, "We're not gonna capture the pack leader of these creatures. We are just going to kill him with a sniper rifle." And Sam says, "Crowley's not going to be too happy about that." And Dean says, "Who cares? Or else like this guy has the power to have all these sleeper agents turn on their families and turn 150 people into monsters." And Sam's like, "But what if we captured it and then it told us about where the alpha was, and then Crowley would give me my soul back!" And Dean's just really pissed at this. He's like, "You said that you're just basically Sam and so normo-schnormo, but you're fucking not. You have Sam's brain and body, but it's not you, so stop pretending!"

G: And Sam's response to this was like, "Okay, yay!" [C laughs]

C: Yeah, he said, "Yippee."

G: Yippee!

C: So the setup is that Lucky's told them where he's meeting some members of his pack, or he's called them over to this particular building so that Sam and Dean can have a clear shot. And they have an exchange where Sam's like, "I bet he'll double-cross us," and Dean's like, "No, because he loves that family!" And Sam's like, "Okay, fine. I would double-cross us." Absolute slay. [G: So true.] But yeah, there's a few people who come out, and Dean keeps trying to maybe get the main guy, the guy who's talking to Lucky in the park, but he can't get a clear shot. And those people head inside the building before Dean has a chance, so they have to do plan B. Inside the building, they have captured Mandy and her son and they've taken them inside, and generally- The point is that Lucky killed people without permission, and to prove that he's still loyal to the pack, then he has to turn Mandy and Adrian while they watch. Before that happens, Sam shows up and starts shooting people. [G: Yeah!] Slay! And Dean is up high with his rifle jammed through a hole in some glass in a window, and he's also shooting people.

G: Honestly, when they go "Plan B. What, do you have a plan B?" I wasn't expecting this, for some reason. I thought they were gonna bust in there-

C: I thought Sam was just gonna blow up the whole building or some shit. [both laugh]

G: Yeah, but I thought I thought it was- It's a different thing. I don't think we've seen anything like this in Supernatural yet. [C: Yeah.] I don't think we ever really had an episode where Sam and Dean were skilled shooters, you know? They have a gun, and they shoot it, but nothing to never really occupy our mind in a way where they're good with the guns in a way that is about accuracy.

C: Yeah, agreed. Maybe we forgot. There's been a lot of episodes of this thing.

G: No, I really don't think there has been.

C: Alright. I believe you. And Lucky is trying to help Mandy. He's like, "Come with me. I'll help you hide," and she's like, "I don't know you!" and he goes, "Yes, you do."

G: Ominous. He could have just said, "Please just come with me."

C: Yeah, or just like, "I'm not with these guys, and I want to help or whatever."

G: No, yeah. "I want to help!"

C: Yeah, so he bolts Mandy and Adrian inside- I don't know, not a cage, but an area where they'll be safer. There's just like a long thing where Sam's stalking around trying to get the last of the people in the warehouse. Some of them turn into dogs, and he kills them, and when he shoots them, they turn back into naked men. The guy played by Gunner Lawless is yelling at Lucky, saying like, "How dare you? I gave you your life back. You're nothing to them." And Lucky punches the guy in the face, and this starts a fight, and-

G: Lucky transforms into a dog!

C: Yeah, he turns into a dog, to the shock of Mandy.

G: And the family goes, "Lucky?"

C: Yeah. The Gunner Lawless guy is like, "I can literally just shoot you. You know?"

G: And then he does. Iconic.

C: He does, but not fatally. And then he is about to kill Lucky for real.

G: He has respect on the dog code. No, he was about to kill him.

C: He was about to kill him for real, but Dean gets him before that. So yeah.

G: We didn't really see the fallout of this with Lucky and the family. Because the next thing we see is the family at their house, and Lucky knocks at the door as a dude. And Mandy opens the door, and she's like, disgusted by him and wants him to go away. But he goes, "Hey, sorry to bother you, but I just wanted to tell you that you were like, the closest thing I had to family, and like, you were just so nice to me. It was the first time. And I just want to say, I know this sounds corny, tired, and played-out, but like, thank you." And she just goes, "Get away from us, you psycho! And if you ever, ever come near me or my son again, so help me."

C: I'm surprised there was no "And also, you killed my boyfriend" in there? [G: No.] That seems like maybe one of the most important components of this.

G: The guy's still talking when she cuts him off by closing the door. After a while, the woman opens the door again or something or looks outside, and there's a pile of clothes out there, and there's a dog walking into the fucking sunset. [both laugh]

C: And it's sad music and all that.

G: Yeah. And yeah, why did Lucky the dog cross the road? Truly a question of all time.

Anyway, Sam and Dean, they're going near a river. Of course they are. They're always going near a fucking lake or a river to speak to each other. As they're sitting on the bench, Sam goes like, "Dean, I have something to tell you. I was thinking... you were right." And then he goes, "I'm not your brother. I'm not Sam. All of that shit about being the old me, it's just crap. [C laughs] Lisa and Ben, right? I've been acting like I care about them. But I don't. I couldn't care less!" [both laughing] He's so iconic! Honestly, this line, it is constantly brought up as such a funny moment for soulless Sam. It still did not prepare me for how funny it actually is [C laughing] in the context of the episode. It's hilarious! He literally is just like- And I think it's the face that he makes that makes it. That little Sam frown of like, "I couldn't care less." And it's so important. And Dean's just like, "Is that supposed to make me feel better?" But Sam keeps on going. He says that like, "No, you said you wanted the real me, so I'm telling you. I don't care about them, and I don't really care about you, except that I need your help." And he says that "You're not gonna stick around if I'm not honest with you, so I'm gonna be honest, and here's the things that I've done. I've killed innocent people in the line of duty. I'm sure it's not something that old me could have done, and maybe I should feel guilty, but I don't." And then he goes, "I don't know if it's better or worse because it's different than what it was when I had my soul. You get the job done, and nothing really hurts, but it was harder in the past, but there were feelings that he was-" or like, "There are also things about it I remember that... Let's just say I think I should probably go back to being him," which does touch me. [C: Yeah.] A feeling of longing for your old self or something that Sam's- the feeling of having access to of in your emotional, you know, repertoire. [C: Right.] I think that is a relatable feeling, like, obviously not to the extent that Sam is exhibiting now that Supernatural has established that his soul, his literal soul, is gone. But like, I think it's a touching scene. And, like, I don't know. What do you think?

C: Yeah, I liked it.

G: What did you think about his lines? Do you think it makes sense for him to miss his old self, like with the logic that Supernatural is posing of what soullessness is?

C: Um, not really? [laughs]

G: Not really? I think I understand it, but also maybe I understand it, but I'm applying it wrongly in how I understand it. Because in my case, I would not have access to an emotion I used to feel or something, but I still have access to the other ones that allow me to miss that, you know? For this one, I'm not sure if it follows through with the logic Supernatural has proposed with how this all works, but I'm assuming, you know, the people who conceptualize this, the writer of this episode and such, is only probably only accessing it in the way that I am. And in that way, it's effective, I think.

C: Yeah, I guess- Okay, he has all of Sam's memories.

G: Yeah. So he remembers being happy.

C: He remembers choices and different situations, or feeling happy.

G: Or feeling satisfied, yeah.

C: So he might feel like it's sort of jarring when he does things that don't align with his memories of before, so it could be [G: Oh, yeah.] just wanting to resolve that kind of cognitive dissonance is sort of a way I could see it.

G: Yeah, I think that makes sense. The feeling of like, "I'm supposed to, but I'm not." It's like a wall that that you can't pass through. No, I love it. I don't know. I just, I love Sam! And there is a tenderness that I feel towards the idea that Sam loves Sam too. [C: Yeah.] Even without the emotional aspect of it that having a soul in this case would imbue him, he misses himself! And, you know, we talk frequently about how Sam is so miserable, always! [C laughs] [C: Yeah.] It's nice to know that Sam, to Sam, even without the emotional attachment and the guilt and all that, understand that there's something there, that there's something there that he wants for himself. Yeah, he says explicitly, "It was harder, and it was more complex and difficult," but that there's something there that he wants to go back to still. And it's such a- I understand that people- There has been discussions about whether this is an allegory to depression in some way, right? People have made that case. I think it is solid enough to think that. That concept is solid enough. I don't think it is directly, but it's an allegory, so of course it's not directly. [C: Right.] But I just think in that case, it makes me- Later on in the show, Sam is going to continue being miserable and continue being, you know, all these things, but something you can- I'm tearing up talking about it. [C: Aw!] But something you can't ever say about Sam is that he was hopeless in ways that are bigger than him. Even when he was trying to kill himself, he was hopeful for the world that it will end up leading towards, you know? He was always hopeful about things. I mean, that specifically, in Season 8, he was in a very bad place, but there was still this massive hope that this bad place will lead to a good outcome. And that is, for me, that is what characterizes Sam as a character, that hopefulness. And a part of me thinks, "Is that what he misses?" Because that's what I miss, you know? [C: Yeah.] And yeah, I love Sam so much! Aww! Corny, tired, and played-out. Or is it?

C: Or is it? I think it's wonderful.

G: Oh, thank you. Well, I shall think it's wonderful, too. And Dean is like, "Okay, yay!" [both laugh] [C: Yeah.] And then Sam asks, "So what are we gonna do?" And Dean goes, "We do what we got to do. We get my brother back." And they're at the side of a fucking body of water, [laughing] just like in every episode- like, every five episodes of Supernatural ends this way, and that's kind of important. [C: Yeah. Yeah.] It is always so funny to me, seeing the bones of the show, the format that the show follows. Did you notice that every episode so far- Not every episode, I guess, but the last three episodes or so, Sam is like, "Okay, I'm going to be so honest for real now," [C laughing] and then, at the end of the episode, he goes, "Dean, do you remember everything I said? Lies. [C laughing] I'm gonna be so honest for real now." I wonder if this is the end of it, or if next episode, we will have a "so honest for real" again.

C: What is the next episode?

G: Let's see. I think it's "Clap Your Hands If You Believe."

C: Oh! Love it! He was sleeping with patchouli!

G: Yes, "Clap Your Hands If You Believe." Well.

C: I think he was being for real in that episode. They have the exchange where it's like, [G: "I don't care."] "Well, I tried to get you back. And then, yeah, that was the extent of what I could do, so then I went and fucked somebody. What are you talking about, I was supposed to feel bad all night?"

G: Yeah. Well, let's do Best Line/Worst Line.

C: Alright. I think we know what your best line is.

G: We know what my best line is. It's specifically the part where he says, "But there are also things about it I remember that I... Let's just say I think I should probably go back to being him." I love you, Sam!

C: Yeah, I think that that is the best line. I think the only other line that I thought was okay was when they're interrogating Lucky, and Dean goes, "Oh, you went to sniffing people's butts? Yeah, that's a real step up." And he goes, "Well, it was for me." in a way that I think helps establish the sympathy for this character better than any other line.

G: Yeah. What's our worst line?

C: You did not like "the girl and the little boy" as a phrase.

G: I didn't.

C: But I don't think that's the worst.

G: I think because of the shock that imbued in me when I realized that the Lisa showing up on Dean's phone is supposed to be a parallel to this guy, I'm going to make that my honorary worst line.

C: So true. I did not like when Dean went, "Listen. You don't have to tell me why you're with the family. I get it." because of the mirror establishing properties of that line. [laughs]

G: Yeah, I suppose Sam going, "Fetch," the reason why I don't put it as my worst line is because I do think it is informative of Sam's character in a way that no other scene has been so far, that not really mean-spiritedness, but a curiosity that goes over the line of what is appropriate, which I think is more more characteristic of what he's going through. [C: Yeah.] So, yeah, I did actually like that scene for Sam character perspective.

Spreadsheets? Are we spreading those sheets?

C: I suppose we are.

G: Well, first of all, the topic of this episode, as was mentioned earlier, deserves points in the racism category just automatically. It is fundamental to the episode.

C: Yeah.

G: I would give it a 4.

C: Yeah, I agree.

C: Crowley reminds us of the Bobby kiss, but I honestly don't think that counts. I think that was a slay.

G: I think I count it. 1 point. No no no-

C: Okay. If you count it, I'll count it.

G: Okay, I'll count it 1. But what if he's just gay? I don't wanna- As I've said, I don't want to fault a queen for queening out!

C: Well, okay, the point of that was [G: The writers.] to humiliate Bobby. He was like, "Oh, is that Bobby? Well, reminder that I kissed him in a gay way, and he feels disgusted at himself about it."

G: Okay. And also it's about the writers, not the character.

C: Misogyny, I think there feels to be an undercurrent of it [G: There is.] through the whole saving the girl, blah blah blah.

G: I do think it's fundamental to the episode, but not enough to give it a 3. You know what I mean?

C: Yeah, it feels like a 2 sort of fundamental.

G: Okay, writers? Or, what's this? IMDb. This is an even episode, so I'm going first. I would give this one- I think people would maybe off-put by it. I'm giving it an 8.0.

So "Family Matters," I just checked is an 8.0, so I'm moving down my my grade to a 7.8.

C: I'll do a... 7 point... I never choose the right direction to go in.

G: Go against your heart.

C: 7.9. Let's watch me fail.

G: Okay, let's see, it's a 7.7!

C: Fuck! [sighs] Alright.

G: This one says, "As for the music, I miss the rock, but I don't mind the different style either." I noticed this. They use an egregious amount of music here that is weird.

C: Really?

G: Not weird as in the music is weird, but the choice of playing music in those scenes are weird. There's more like background music in this scene than there usually is, I feel, and it's always dramatically sad in a way that I feel like is uncharacteristic of Supernatural, the "sad scenes are characterized by a piano" show. [C: Yeah.] Just piano with one notes each, I remember one time I made a girl- Wow! "A girl." No, we were girls when we were kids. But you know, I made somebody play the Supernatural theme on the piano-

C: Yeah, you've shared this before.

G: - and she said it was too boring. Oh, fuck!

C: So they know who you're talking about. [G laughs]

C: This first one is doing a real reading response. "There are themes of surveillance and voyeurism which parallel and also intersect at a certain point. At what point does surveillance warp into voyeurism? Does it occur by incident or accident or does anyone even care? [G: Love that.] Traits of ownership, family and protectiveness permeate these themes. Who is the true guardian here? Lucky or the woman he watches over? Or are both guardians of one another in their own way?" I think it's great that somebody wrote all of that.

G: What an interesting- Yeah. Oh, this one says, "The contrast of a monster who looks after a family in his own way versus a cold and ruthless hero whose job is to track a case." I love this! Who reviewed this? Wonderful, misstofu!

C: Yeah. Oh my god, tofu! I love tofu!

G: No, literally! I love when people write good reviews to things because a lot of the times, the reviews right now are like, Letterboxd style.

C: Yeah, where they're just trying to be funny.

G: Yeah, and a lot of people use Letterboxd for movies instead instead of IMDb, so, you know, whatever. But I like when people write long reviews that are reviews the way you would see it in a newspaper or something, like the famous reviewers, for real for real-type reviewers, like reviews that I would read in a collection of Shakespeare-type reviews.

C: [laughs] Uh-huh. By who? Who would write-

G: No, I'm serious. I mean, Auden's reviews on Shakespeare were really good, like Shakespeare productions were actually good, but I'm reading the lectures, not the reviews. [C: Right.] I didn't get through the whole thing, but I read a substantial amount of the Much Ado About Nothing (Bloom's Shakespeare Through the Ages), and it's like, from the very first review of Much Ado About Nothing [C: Aw!] to like- I read until the 1950s. So like, reviews of productions that were produced. And it's it's such an interesting thing. And I do think- this is not true- Sorry, I'm nerding out. This is not true for TV shows because a TV show that was, you know, shown in 2005, we can watch again now, but for more spur of the moment- not spur of the moment. For more temporal forms of media like plays, it's so important, it's so important, and I do fear that we have lost that skill or that niche in society of having a reviewer. Because a lot of the times, it's those reviews that really shape perception. You can see or reflect perceptions in a way that you can only sense in the future through that. [C: Right.] Like here, we're reading reviews from 2011! We're reading reviews from 2010, we're reading reviews that embody what people thought at the time, and you can't, you know, bring that back, and it's so important, I think! Sorry.

C: Yeah, no, I agree.

G: I love Much Ado About Nothing and I love Shakespeare, and so many reviews are so good, and they're from the fucking 1800s, and that's so wonderful to me!

C: Yeah. One person thinks that soulless Sam feels forced and that he seems like too utilitarian or mean or whatever. [G: Huh!] But I don't know. I think it was fine.

G: I think there is a chance that that is the case, like, I'm not gonna deny it. I think-

C: I think the dick monkey confrontation with the detective did feel forced because we've seen him ask people questions before on cases, and he seemed to understand to generally be polite because that is how you get answers. The last review is titled "Kinda gross?" [both laugh]

G: And this is the kind of essential reviews that we need! [both laugh]

C: And it says, "Idk just the idea of a dog/human thing is ridiculous to me but not in a good way. This episode also didn't have any humour to it except ofcourse the wonderful Crowley." [laughs] and that's all of it. Literally, except, of course, the wonderful Crowley.

G: Well, that’s it for this episode of Busty Asian Beauties. Next week, we will be discussing Season 6, Episode 9: "Clap Your Hands If You Believe"! Leave us a rating or a review wherever you get your podcasts.

C: Follow us on social media! We are on Tumblr at bustyasianbeautiespod.tumblr.com. Our official tag is #BABPod, B-A-B-POD. Thanks to everyone who's donated to our Ko-Fi at ko-fi.com/bustyasianbeautiespod, which is where our outtakes live, and our Spotify Wrapped thing.

G: Yeah, our Spotify Wrapped thing. We recorded it immediately, the day of, which is so fun, as always.

C: Yeah, as always.

G: I think it will continue to be the thing we continue to commit ourselves to in the future.

C: Yeah. And check out our merch at babpod.redbubble.com.

G: You can email us any feedback, comments, or inquiries at bustyasianbeautiespod@gmail.com. See you guys next time! [both] Bye!

[guitar music]

-

[beep]

G: Hello, it's Grey. Just wanted to do two things. One is to correct myself. I don't think there actually are reviews of Auden that are play-specific. Maybe I misremembered. But there are his lectures on Shakespeare, which is what I have been reading. Two, I want to read you a passage from the Romeo and Juliet lecture on W.H. Auden's Lectures on Shakespeare, delivered- this lecture specifically was delivered in November 6, 1946, and this edition was reconstructed and edited by Arthur Kirsch, as in the lectures were reconstructed by Arthur Kirsch. Okay, well- And also, thank you to Crystal for sending over a copy of this book after I had to return the copy I was using to my school library. Okay.

What do you want, in falling in love? Not simply possession. It becomes important to my existence that you exist, and I want my existence to become important to you. I want to know you. Falling in love resembles other experiences that have these qualities. It is a gift, not a thing that you can make happen. There is no command, “Thou shalt fall in love”: the scriptural command is “Thou shalt love.” Falling in love does not demand the return of love. The Thou is not aesthetically or ethically defined, not a prettier or better person, but a unique person. Comparisons are futile for those who have fallen in love: lovers don’t care about comparisons. The Thou must also seem powerful. That’s why falling in love is not often reciprocated. If it is, the feeling of dependence upon one another ensues. And sex.

What are the possible experiences of Thou? (1) Contact with God: religious experience, and (2) the discovery of a vocation. It is characteristic of our age that no one feels that the lack of religious or vocational experience is significant, while no one doubts that the lack of love experience is. A weak self wants to be aggressive in love and to appropriate the Not-self, the lonely self wants to be related through protecting or being protected. In adolescent love, the two are brought together.

You find out who you are when you are in love. The experience is likely to appear at a critical juncture—adolescence, middle age—when a stage of life is being outgrown. The courtly love people were wrong in thinking one can will falling in love, but right in thinking that falling in love is impossible in marriage. There either Thou gets weaker, or we grow to understand Thou, and falling in love becomes love. We see Thou as not a ground for our existence but as someone we can help—perhaps by separation. Parents will separate from their children, for example, in order to wean them. If we equate falling in love with love, it leads to a frenzy of cosmetics, twin beds, etc. Love is different.

In literary tradition there are always obstacles to love. For the intoxicant of romantic love to remain effective it is essential that the relationship not change into something else, dwindle into friendship or domestic, married love, for example, with its ties to the community. No, something must come between the lovers that prevents their union—one of them is already married, there is an interfamily feud, there is a barrier of race, or religion, and should no barrier be present, the lovers themselves must provide one. The purpose of the obstacle is clear: it is to intensify desire by impeding its fulfillment. Now the obstacle that the lovers ideally require must be insurmountable. That is to say, their union must be possible only through their deaths. This is the secret, the religious mystery, of Romantic Love, the mystery that is represented by the suicides of Romeo and Juliet. If people marry on the assumption that love must always overcome obstacles, they will either become unfaithful or they will make things difficult. The better you know someone, the better you can torture him: man and wife become each other’s devils. Falling in love is a good thing if by means of it you become a self with whom it is possible to have a real relationship, if your I can develop. If a person falls in love every five minutes, people rightly suspect he has no heart. Falling in love can be bad if it leads to nothing. There are other ways of discovering oneself, but in our time falling in love seems the commonest. Because of the development of industrialization, [laughs] there has been a decline in religious feeling as well as a decrease in the number of jobs that are really vocations, and in big cities there is also a shrinkage of love and of important relationships to family.

What an interesting passage! What an interesting guy this Auden is. I just thought that was fun and interesting and doesn't need the context of the play, and also, everyone's already read Romeo and Juliet. I don't actually agree with this reading of Romeo and Juliet. I think he is so cynical about this story. Yeah, it's not romantic because they die, but I don't think it's two people making it difficult for themselves. There is an actual difficulty present that they are battling against and that is informing their decisions and their misery, and I don't think they're inventing that misery. Although I suppose what he was trying to say was, after all that, if they did survive, they would have invented misery for themselves because they have defined love as overcoming of obstacles instead of what is after those obstacles itself. Yeah.

[bustyasianbeautiespod]

Episode 111 Transcript: Soulless Sam is Literally Fine

[intro guitar music]

G: Hello, it's Grey.

C: Hello, it's Crystal.

G: And this is Busty Asian Beauties, a Supernatural commentary podcast where I, someone who has seen this show many, many times...

C: And I- Why are you saying "many, many" on one where you forgot a lot?

G: I know! I immediately regretted it after I said it. So yeah. I've seen this show a normal amount of times, I think, for a person who's seen it all.

C: Yeah. Has he even seen it? Yes. But has he? Yeah. [G laughs] And I, someone who only knows the show through social media, discuss every single episode of Supernatural from start to finish. Also, we are both Asian.

G: Both Asian! For today's episode, we will be discussing Season 6, Episode 7: "Family Matters," written by Andrew Dabb and Daniel Loflin. I sound like I'm trying to do a masc-off with my voice. [both laugh] Directed by Guy Bee. And also, the problem is the fact that I have seen this show. Maybe if I haven't, I'd have a better time. I just feel like I'd do a better job of podcasting if I'm surprised by every shocking turn of events.

C: Perhaps.

G: But I'm not, and also, I don't know anything. It's a bad combo.

C: No, I feel like it's also supremely uninteresting for the premise [G: No!] being one guy who's seen it and one guy who's not since I also know every twist. I don't know, some people might have been coming in at the very beginning being like, "And Crystal won't know about soulless Sam!" I know about soulless Sam. I know about everything! [both laugh] I just don't know the specific lines they said.

G: Just for some back-the-stage- or like, beyond- what do you call it? Like backstage-

C: Behind the scenes?

G: [laughing] Like, just for some behind the scenes, at the very beginning of this podcast, when we were formulating our intro, I think you were gonna say that "I have never seen the show," and you were like, "That's just fundamentally untrue, I think." [C laughs] It's a very misleading thing to say. And we were like, "Know it from Tumblr, maybe?" And you were like, "I specifically do not want that to be put out in the world, even though it's the complete fucking truth." And so we settled on "know it from social media."

C: [laughing] Did I say that?

G: Yes! We settled to "know it from social media," the stupidest fucking statement ever said!Like, what do you mean "know it from social media"?

C: Or it's the smartest statement ever said. You don't know. What scales are we using?

G: Secretly the smartest.

C: Anyway, Guy Bee directed "Asylum" and hasn't directed anything until now.

G: Yeah. I'm sure he's gonna be around. And I do still regret that at some point, you said that "How is a guy just named Guy?" and I didn't push back further, because I think it's a completely fun and normal and fine name.

C: I think you did push back.

G: He will direct many other episodes! He'll direct "Stairway to Heaven," the last episode of Season 9, when Dean becomes a demon. [laughing] We literally do not give a fuck about spoilers in this.

C: Well yeah, I know he's a demon in the beginning, so he had to at the end of Season 9.

G: And "Frontierland," which is the one where Dean meets Elliot Ness, I'm pretty sure.

And Crystal incessantly messaged me while watching this episode- while they were watching this episode- about how hot Sam is.

C: I did not incessantly message you.

G: I think it was incessant.

C: I think I sent you like, two, max. That is not incessant in our friendship.

G: I think it was- Yeah, this is true.

C: It wasn't incessant. I am willing to read my two messages aloud to prove to the people that it wasn't incessant.

G: Okay. No, you were actually hedging a lot. [laughs] You were hedging a lot your bets on whether Sam is hot or not. [C: That's true.] You were asking for the suggestion of whether he's hot or not. Okay, read your messages.

C: True. I said, "i haven't seen a man w blood on his face in so long why do i want sam so bad." And then I said, "have you watched the ep yet maybe i'm normal and sam's just incredibly alluring this ep."

G: I don't know if he is, but there is also a very strong chance and possibility that two factors are affecting this insight. One is that Cas is also in this episode. [C: Yeah?] And two is that I just don't like Season 6 Sam's hair I don't like it.

C: The thing is, after the blood is off his face-

G: He's literally fine? [laughs]

C: I don't really care about him. I think that the blood sort of changes his hairline. [laughs]

G: Yeah, like Cas absorbed his hotness or something. He magicked the blood off.

C: Yeah. Who do you think took your hotness, etc.

G: Literally. The scene where, who was it? Samuel was like, "Oh, this is your wings" or something with Cas, and Cas is there, and he like, solemnly nods-

C: No, I was like, "Should Cas and Samuel fuck?"

G: Cas nods very solemnly, but also in an amused way. Like, what is this? What is going on? Love it!

C: Yeah. Maybe he should fuck Sam and Dean's grandfather.

G: Yeah, he should have an affair with Samuel, with Mary, not with John Winchester, unfortunately [C: Yeah.] because I think it will be a huge betrayal to everyone involved in ways that fucking Mary Winchester or Samuel Campbell is not.

C: Yeah.

G: Bobby, too, I suppose. And Rufus! We're really pushing it with-

C: Why not? Have they met?

G: No, but many people ship Cas and Rufus, and I fully understand. My definition of "many people" may be nebulous and also difficult to understand.

C: Yeah, maybe two.

G: No, but the Supernatural fandom is so large, it's actually wonderful when you discover a rarepair that is not celebrated still. Like, for example, that one time that somebody proposed Amara and Billie, and I started getting hot flashes. [both laugh]

C: So true.

G: So true. That one's a good one. That one's a good one!

C: Alright. We do have to make it through this episode. I didn't know anything about it coming in-

G: Why?

C: But I guess if you asked me, I could have guessed that this is the one with the soulfisting.

G: Yeah, it's pretty obvious that it's going.

C: Yeah, I just have nothing that's related to the words "6.07 Family Matters" in my head.

G: Yeah, but you know about stuff. I feel like we should maybe redefine what we mean when we say, "What did you know about this episode before going in?" not being specifically about the episode, but more what things in the episode were you already familiar with before you watched it. Do you know what I mean? Yeah.

C: Okay. Yeah, I mean, I didn't know a lot of these major points. I didn't know that Samuel was working for Crowley.

G: Oh, yeah. I did know that, in fairness to me.

C: I did know that Crowley had a handle on Sam's soul in some way-

G: I did not know that. [laughs]

C: - because he dangles it in front of him in like, 6.10 or something, I believe. Yeah, I didn't know they were gonna get the alpha vampire this episode or that Samuel was looking for Purgatory. So I know I just talked a big game at the beginning of this episode about how I know all the major plot points, but I didn't know these ones. [laughs]

G: I know about Samuel like looking for- I mean, do you know what he's looking for in Purgatory, or should I not spoil that?

C: Well, Crowley and Cas wanted to just eat all the souls, so-

G: Yeah. So he's looking for the souls of the people in Purgatory, of the monsters, because that is like a huge amount of untapped energy, is kind of the vibe. They're fracking. [both laugh] And I know that they were looking for a lot of souls. I thought the finding Purgatory was just a side effect. I did not know that it comes in this early in the season as the main thing that they're doing, which is pretty surprising to me, I think. This episode is actually incredibly fast-paced. Like, so many things happen in it. And nothing is ever set to linger. I'm assuming next episode, we will linger on some stuff that happens in this one. And also, just to preface, I do like this episode, and I like the relationship dynamics it proposes. And I kind of wish Sam remained soulless or something [C laughing] because their relationship when Sam is soulless is so wonderful. Because Dean imposes his shit, and Sam makes a decision, yes or no, and the decision is not guided by guilt or whatever. It's guided by, like, "Okay, this is the logical thing to do" and I appreciate that! Or "this is the thing that I would do in a way where I'm sticking with my values," which I do think is also wonderful that, like, he can stick to his values without feeling guilt in every single facet of his life. Like, go, Sam! But he does get his soul back and will be miserable. [laughs]

C: Yeah, sorry, Sam.

G: I mean, I understand that Sam's soul is in Hell being tortured to hell and back right now [both laughing], so like, it's a complex issue. Yeah, okay. Start the episode.

-

G: We get the completely the same "Road So Far" as we did last episode except for the last scene in the "Road So Far," which made me go like, "Am I watching the wrong episode? Did they repeat the episode?" But they didn't. It's just the exact fucking same. But when we start the episode now, we start with Sam POV, and he is like, waking up, and he's blinking his eyes open. It starts off blurry. Things start getting into focus, and then it's Ca peering over at him. He's slightly bent down to see Sam eye-to-eye because Sam is, in fact, tied up to a chair, and, you know, his face is still bloody. Dean is like on the other side of the room, watching this checkup, I suppose.

C: And Sam's doing major puppy dog eyes this entire scene, and I don't know why.

G: I, full disclosure, I did not knit during this part of the episode. [laughs] I knitted later. There's so much that happens this episode, at some point, I was just like, "Oh, I think I can knit now because it's about to end." And it literally wasn't. [both laugh] It kept on fucking going. But yeah. What were you saying? Sam looked like a dog.

C: Sam was doing heavy puppy dog eyes.

G: I think he looked normal. I think he looked normal.

C: Yeah, maybe I just haude Covid or something.

G: Yeah, maybe you haude Covid. Cas is-

C: But I do think that it was strategic because he was trying the whole "play on Dean's sentiment for Sam" before he was like, "Fuck it. I just undid my hands from the rope."

G: Yeah, yeah. And I do think it is so interesting to me trying to figure out what Sam is doing here, because I do think he's being sincere, but sincere is like- There are different ways to be sincere, you know? When he is here, and he is telling Dean like, "Please let me out. You have got to. You can't leave me here," he is being sincere. If that worked out, he would have pushed through with that. But because it didn't work out, he approached it in a different way, and that is also sincere. You know what I mean? [C: Yeah.] I don't think he's trying to be insincere, specifically, just that there's different situations, and there's different ways of acting in different situations. Love Sam!

C: Love Sam.

G: Yeah. But Cas is asking like, "Are you feverish? Are you speaking in tongues? Is he speaking in tongues?" [both laugh] Speaking in tongues, that's an actual term, which is something I discovered only semi-recently. Dean asks, incredibly tense and mad this entire portion of the episode, and also the entire episode, I think, until towards the end. I would say it's a combo for me. It's both like, I understand why he's feeling this way, and then the other side is like, he also did act this way in other situations where I don't understand it. And so now, what it feels like is he's allowed to feel this way. He's allowed to act like how he's always acted, because now it's justified, which is not a particularly good feeling for a watcher of a show. [C: Mm.] Right? Would you say that?

C: Yeah, I'd say that.

G: Yeah, okay. So Dean is acting like how he did with Ruby and how he did when he put Sam in that fucking panic room, which Sam does mention later. [C: Yes.] Like, "No, Dean. You're not gonna put me in the panic room." And I wuv it! [laughs] No, I don't. I don't actually wuv it. It's a disconcerting thing to watch, to have it- to yeah. But not in a bad way, I think. It's disconcerting in a way that makes you think deeper about how you how you interact with this aspect of Dean Winchester and how he has what he believes to be righteous anger, and the thing is, even when it's not righteous, he still deems it to be righteous, so when he deems it to be righteous, and it is righteous, what does that mean? You know? [C: Yeah.] Oh, okay. So Dean's shouting at Sam like, "No! I'm not going to talk-" He does this thing where he doesn't really talk to Sam, he's just talking to Sam through Cas. Or he's talking to Sam as a suspect that they're interrogating where there's a lot of talking to Cas as if Sam isn't there, which does suck, I believe. [laughs] But also, again, previously mentioned stuff. Cas asks, "How much sleep do you get?" And Sam says, "No, I don't do that." And Dean asked, "Did it never occur to you that something's off about that?" And Sam just goes, "Well, of course it did. I just didn't tell you. Duh!" [both laugh] So true! And Cas asks the age-old question, "How are you feeling?" And Sam goes, "My nose is broken." And Cas says, "No, that's a physical sensation. What are you feeling?" And Sam goes, "I think-" and Cas goes, "No, no, no. What are you feeling?" And Sam goes, "I don't know!" Normal therapy session, for fucking real. Cas rides up his arm. "Rides up his arm"?

C: Rolls up his sleeve?

G: Cas rolls up his sleeve, and he has his arm out. He also looks incredibly hot this episode. [C: Yeah.] This is unrelated to the fisting, but there is a scene later, where he's standing near Dean, and then every time he turns to Sam, he doesn't turn his entire body, he just turns his head, and it's an incredibly fun look for him. He's doing a very sexy backturn- half-backturn or something. So true. Anyway, he fists Sam, and he removes his belt. [C: Uh-huh.] Is it his belt? It is his belt, right? He removes his belt.

C: Yeah. [laughs] For Sam to bite down on.

G: He shoves his belt onto Sam's mouth so that Sam can bite into it. Crazy, by the way. That's crazy. [C: Yeah, yeah.] That's crazy. And then he goes, like, "You should go somewhere that's soothing in your head."

C: Yeah. Love is real!

G: He inserts his damn arm into this guy, and Sam is like, screaming, crying. Well, he's just screaming. [laughs] Let's not get too- Yeah, he is screaming. He is actually in pain, and as Cas takes out his arm, Dean asks like, "Did you find anything?" And Cas walks around, a little bit morose, he goes, "No." Very ominous, very nothing as well. And Dean is like, "Oh, that's amazing, right? That's good news?" [C laughs] And Cas goes, "No. Physically, he's perfectly healthy. But his soul... it's gone!" Honestly, it's so amusing. "Did you find anything?" "No." I think it's so fun. It's such a TV show way to have this conversation, [C: It is.] but I love a TV show, so it's fine!

-

C: Cas explains that Sam's soul is probably still in the cage, and Dean asks if he's even still Sam. And of course, Cas goes, "Well, you pose an interesting philosophical question." And Dean just demands Cas go get Sam's soul right away, and Cas says, "I just don't think it's possible. I don't think I can do it!" [laughs] He knows from experience.

G: It is actually so fucking funny, all of the scenes where Cas is like, "Sam, do you really not remember anything?" [both laugh] Like, what is this?

C: Yeah. "Do you promise you don't remember anything? Okay, great."

G: He is so fucking funny.

C: Yeah. I still don't know the specifics of the Crowley/Cas getting Sam and Samuel out situation, but I do know that Cas got Sam, so he also did the fuck-up. Sam starts asking Dean to untie him, and Dean's just like, "No! I'm not even gonna let you out of this room!" And Sam says that he's "not some psycho. I didn't want you to get hurt. I was just trying to stop the vamps," which I think at least from a fucking DSM perspective does not preclude him from being "some psycho," but yeah, they're going off of the pop culture definition or whatever. And I think this is so cool. I love hearing about the logic behind soulless Sam's actions. I don't know. It's neat. It's neat. I like it. I like it.

G: The thing is like, I understand what he was saying. What he's saying here, I understand. And I think if it was in some situation where he either insists Dean do it in a "Dean, I'm trying to tell you how to do it." Like, Dean, Mr. I Need to Sacrifice Myself for the World or something, he would have done it. The violation is not exactly in that Sam wanted it to be the case where he wanted to use Dean as some sort of in. It's that he did it without Dean's consent. That's the issue. And I do find fascinating that they propose an idea later on that like- because if Sam wanted to, he could have become the vampire. He could have set himself out as like, "Oh, bite me, mm-hm-hm-hm-hm!" you know? [C laughs]

C: Yeah, exactly like that.

G: Yeah. But later on, we get the proposal of an idea that because Sam is soulless, it would be harder for him to combat the vampire instincts or whatever. [C: Yeah.] I just thought that was a fascinating touch to put in here where they ask this question of- Because they keep bringing up the "Dean became a vampire," obviously, because it's fundamental to Dean's gripes. They're answering it, bit by bit, on like, "Okay, so why didn't Sam do this instead? Okay, so why did Sam actually do it? And could it have been done other ways?" And the answer so far is, "Not in the way where Sam can do it," which I think is fun. Yeah.

C: Yeah. And then he goes, "Sowwy! It won't ever happen again!"

G: "My bad!" So-

C: So funny. I love him. "Pwease let me go!"

G: "It won't happen again!" [both laugh]

C: "Whoopsies!"

G: No, he's iconic. The thing is, I do love him soulless [C: He's great.], and I think it's such a refreshing thing to see. I understand he also doesn't experience happiness, and that can be a fundamental part of the human experience, and I think for me, watching Sam, I do want him to be happy sometimes. [both laugh] But like, only sometimes. So now, I'm completely fine.

C: With all the Winchester guilt complexes, it's just nice to have somebody who doesn't experience any of that.

G: Sam is now a person of facts and logic! Oh my god, he's Republican. [both laugh]

C: Yup. And also, throughout the scene, he's been sort of like untying his hands from the rope behind him.

G: Yeah, but nobody's noticing. He's doing it rather well. I think at this point, he has already untied himself.

C: Yeah, no, I think you're right.

G: We see him trying to attempt it earlier, [C: Earlier.] and when he stands up, there's no further movement. He just stands up, and he's like "It's untied."

C: "It's a-me! Sam... io."

G: He literally does say, "It's a-me."

C: So Dean isn't having any of this and says that he's just gonna keep Sam locked up forever. Sam tries again, the whole "I get it. I was wrong, but I'm trying to get right. It's still me," and it doesn't work. And Sam just sighs and stands up.

G: And he goes, "I didn't want it to come to this." [both laugh] So true! So iconic!

C: He's free. He's fine. There's still blood on his face. He's very tall.

G: He's literally very tall.

C: And he goes, "You're not gonna hold me, Dean. [G: Yeah.] Not here, [both] not in a panic room, not anywhere." Not in a panic room! I did cheer and clap.

G: Yeah. They do a good job of keeping Sam not exactly morally ambiguous, but like, not bad. And I do think there is a common thought in fandom that like, "Oh, when Jack becomes soulless, he's like normo schnormo minus some stuff. But for some reason, when Sam became soulless, he magically turned evil." But like, now that we're here, Sam is not magically evil.

C: Yeah, he's fine.

G: He's literally fine. And I don't know. It's such a fascinating thing to see. Maybe it's also the experience of going through it, discussing it week by week, Sam's experiences prior to Season 6, but yeah, my love for Sam right now is not because I think he's evil. I think it's because he's well-adjusted! [laughs]

C: Yeah.

G: Which is truly an indictment of Sam's-

C: He's the most mentally healthy he's been in this whole show.

G: What an indictment of Sam's character.

C: Except for the part where his soul's being tortured, but we're not seeing that.

G: Yeah, well.

C: He tells Dean, "You're stuck with the soulless guy, so you might as well work with me." Dean's just like, "Okay, fuck off, sure. But I'll be watching every movie you make." [G: Yeah.] And then he says, "Cas. Clean him up."

G: I know! And Cas does.

C: Which I know I had some visceral reaction to, but I don't know why.

G: No, it's the attack dog- the Castiel, the Winchester's attack dog, vibe is the vibe, and I think that's what does it. It's just such a fascinating dynamic. Season 6, baby! Season 6!

C: Yeah. He doesn't GAF about Cas's civil war, as is made clear later in the episode. [laughs] [G: Yeah.] I do like how "Weekend at Bobby's" and sort of Cas's thing, are both sort of [G: About the Winchester's-] build-ups to 6.20 about how Dean is self-absorbed. It feels like they're building the foundation to sort of justify Cas not telling Sam and Dean about the plan with Crowley by doing the "Dean is so selfish" thing early on in the season.

G: No. I think it's pointing to a different direction, that one.

C: Oh, okay.

G: I think we will have confrontations in this season where people, like an angel, will come on Earth and be like, "Dean Winchester, you're so fucking annoying. [C laughs] And how dare you disrespect Cas like that? He's our mighty leader, and you're treating him like your lapdog," which he is. [C: Yeah.] Not even a lapdog. He's not on his lap.

C: Yeah. Dean doesn't pet him or give him treats.

G: Yeah, he pets him after he- No, he doesn't even pet him after he attacks. I think by the time we get to 6.20, and I also may be completely misremembering, due to previously-mentioned afflictions, I think by that point we are on Dean's side. We understand why Cas is doing it. But like, at that point, it looks so egregious on Cas's side. And that's why I think 6.20 works. Because you go outside of it, it's so egregious on Cas's side. Then you go to Cas's perspective, and it's like-

C: "He's so sad and gay, though."

G: Yeah, exactly like, "I can empathize because he's so sad and gay."

C: Yeah. So yeah. It's the Cas as Dean Winchester's attack dog thing. [G: Yeah.] It's also just the establishing that Dean does not care about Sam in this form even further thing.

G: Yeah. I love how earlier, I was being completely generous by going, "He's the Winchester's attack dog." It's literally Sam v. Dean right now. [both laugh] [C: Yeah.] And Dean is winning. It's crazy. Well, Sam is winning, but Dean has won Cas over. Do you think they had a battle of like, Sam was like, "Cas, heal me." and Dean was like, "No, Cas." Dean is gonna win, right?

C: Yeah, I think so.

G: That's crazy. They do share a "more profound bond," quote-unquote, and he wasn't gonna mention it!

C: And okay, they do this effect when Cas heals Sam. [both laugh] I don't know- Okay, so he goes over. He touches Sam's face. Sastiel win. And then Sam groans like he's in pain, and he's so in pain that his head goes all the way down.

G: Yeah, and then as his head's up-

C: And then he flips his beautiful hair up to reveal his face, and it's clean. Healing has never hurt before, right?

G: I don't know. What are the times we have seen Cas heal someone?

C: We saw Cas heal Dean's face in "Swan Song."

G: No, yeah, he just boops him clean completely. But I think further on in the show, there is a more "stuff is mending now" aspect of healing that happens, although I would say at this point, it should be more aligned with Cas's powers in Season 5, 'cause he is still locked and loaded at this point. I think in the future seasons, like in Season 12, there's this one iconic scene where he heals Dean's arm, and then in Season 15-

C: He hovers over it? That one?

G: The one where he hovers over both of them, and it's mending, and it's slow. But they're just trying to do romantic shit with that one. That's why it was like that. [both laugh] Unbelievable that they did that fucking audience whatever. What's it called?

C: Oh, the- the survey! What is it called? [G: Yeah.] You're right.

G: Yeah, that one. Unbelievable.

C: Consumer... [G: No, no!] Market research.

G: Yeah, they did the market research already by that point, so they were trying to do romantic shit with that one. Crazy! And the other one was in Season 15, so even more so. Well, that's crazy. Who even give a fuck? Apparently me. I'm sooo... [laughs] It makes me feel every emotion all at once. [C: Yeah.] November 5 and 19 and also that date got to me this year, I must admit.

C: Sorry to Sastielers that this was literally your big soulfisting moment, but not that much Sastiel talk has happened.

G: And Grey is literally a Destieler.

C: Yeah. I'll try better next time, Sastielers. So they decide that they need to figure out who got Sam out so that they can figure out what happened to his soul. And Cas is just like, "I have no idea who it could be! Wow!" [laughs]

G: He's also just such a bad actor. Maybe it's because we know.

C: I think it's because we know. Even though I know, I couldn't really tell that he was being a bad actor, so I don't think he was.

G: I think I could tell when he was like, "Sam, do you really... not remember?" tucks his hair a bit behind his ear. [both laugh] Like, what is this? I mean, he doesn't, but his voice makes it sound like [C: Sure, sure.] he's tucking his hair behind his ear.

C: But yeah, he just woke up in a field, and that's all he knows. Slay! It's nice that Cas didn't make him [G: Crawl out.] dig himself out of a hole in the ground.

G: That's a Dean Winchester special. He was trying to fuck even back then.

C: Well, I was gonna say it's 'cause he cares about Sam, but okay. [G laughs]

G: Yeah, no, he loves a dirty man, and that's why he was like, "Dean, you're gonna dig yourself out of this hole."

C: Well, I think the main Cas/Sam field thing that I think about is the the cut scene from "The Future" [both laugh] where Sam's running through a field, and yeah. Maybe he just associates Sam with-

G: [laughing] Cas is shirtless, with his wings out, and Dean is like-

C: [laughing] - kneeling before him. Sam [laughing] is running through a field. [both laughing] Why was he kneeling?

G: [laughing] Cas is such a fucking unserious fucking character.

C: [laughing] Why was he kneeling?

G: [laughing] I can't believe they didn't do that, just because of that damned market research! It failed to give us that scene.

C: Yeah. Or maybe Misha Collins just didn't want to shave his chest, and they were like, "This scene can't work without Cas being shirtless. We have to scrap the whole thing now."

G: Literally. [laughing]

C: But okay, I do think the Sam running through a field thing is nice. [G laughing] He knows that Sam likes to jog, and he likes the idea of Sam having freedom, and maybe he likes resurrecting Sam in wide open spaces for the same reason, so.

G: That is such a reach as I have never heard before. [both laughing] "It's so nice that Sam's running through the field-"

C: Within the text, Sam running through a field, I think, is meant to represent joy and freedom, though. That's not a reach. It's just how much sentimental attachment I place on Cas's thought of that image that is the reach.

G: [laughing] No, exactly. It is actually hilarious that for Cas, he's like, "Oh, my main desire for Sam is to be happy and free. And my main desire for Dean is to be in wuv with me and worship me!" Like, incredibly fucking funny.

C: Yeah, yeah. Their only clue is that Samuel was also resurrected, so maybe they should ask him about shit.

-

G: Yeah, they go to the Campbell compound, and it looks like a combination of that one episode. What's that episode where they go to the religious place?

C: "99 Problems"?

G: Yeah, this place looks like a mix between the encampment in "99 Problems" and Future!Dean in Endverse.

C: We've also seen this compound before, though.

G: Yeah. But like, I think now, we see the gate, we see them guarding the gate.

C: No, we saw the gate before. [both laughing] Well, you didn't see the gate. You were knitting. I saw the gate before. And also, you did, because you've watched this show many, many times!

G: No. What I just mean is that it's such a fascinating look to a place where like, "Oh, there's hunters here, so it needs to be dark and gloomy." [C: Yeah.] They're still in the same world that all the other scenes in this episode are set in.

C: Yeah, we have invented light bulbs that are more than 20 watts.

G: Yeah. Is it a requirement that you need to be at a grimy place? I feel like maybe it shouldn't be. Maybe we should still respect OSHA standards as we proceed into our hunter day-to-day life. And I think it's such a fascinating idea to connect a incredibly religious compound to the Campbell compound. You know what I mean? Like in "99 Problems"? And they have a religious leader, too. And Dean pointed out later that Samuel is their- what's that? John Wayne? Is that true?

C: I don't remember. Did he say that? I believe you, but I don't remember.

G: Let's check. Ctrl+F, John. Yeah, "Convinced that you're John Wayne."

C: Wait. Is that a- that's not a cult leader, is it?

G: No, no, no. I just mean like they think he's like an- John Wayne is like an action hero, so the point Dean is making here is that "They think you're their action man who knows everything and everything will work out for," and that does imply a certain kind of reliance on him in like a spiritual way, in a moral way, even, that like "We can follow Samuel's instructions because it'll work out because it's him." And that does lean towards a religious or cultish, as you said, behavior in the place. Do you know what I mean? Do you know what I'm saying? I think it's fascinating to connect-

C: I do know what you mean. I guess I don't really see that that much in their behavior, but maybe I'm just missing things.

G: Yeah, I think because they're also quote-unquote "family," although it doesn't really feel like that when you're in there, Dean does make a semi-suggestive turn of phrase to Gwen, [laughs] which was pretty weird. [C: Yeah.] So it could just be the family aspect of "This is our grandfather." It could also just be that there seems to really be a hierarchy in hunting life that people respect, which is fascinating. And Dean really is- The reason why Dean and Samuel clash is because they're just like each other, which is, I think, also fascinating to see. The real reason why they clash is because Samuel asks Dean to follow him, to follow his instructions, and Dean can't. And the way Dean responds to this is he stops the car with Sam and tells Sam, "I'm driving the bus." It's a fascinating thing to see.

They go in, and we also see this whole situation where there's a workroom, like a workshop, I think, and all people are doing is reloading their guns and preparing weapons. [C laughs] It is an imposing look. But Sam comes in, and Christian [laughs] greets him. It's so very obvious that Sam and him are buddies. And then Christian turns to Dean, and he's like, "Dean." Love it. He's like, "Sam! What's up, man?! ... Hi, Dean." He leads them to Samuel, so they go into Samuel's place. They start trying to interview Samuel, and as they enter- And it's just Sam and Dean. But as they enter, Samuel shoves a notebook/something into his drawers, and it's obvious that he's being secretive. And later on, they keep this going. Every time Sam or Dean show up to talk to him, he's always trying to hide something. Just keep a mind palace like Sherlock, man. [laughs]

C: Or a mind attic like the superior Sherlock of CBS Elementary.

G: Samuel is like, "I told you everything already about the night I came back." And Dean says, "Yeah, but you gotta recap it for our wingman here."

C: Ah! Love it!

G: Samuel turns around, and Cas is there! And he's just standing semi-ominously in the background. And Samuel turns to him and goes, "Oh, this is Castiel. You're scrawnier than-" Okay, he goes, "So this is Castiel," and we go to Cas's face. And Cas, as I've said, nods sagely, but also with a little self-satisfied smirk. And yeah, Samuel goes, "You're scrawnier than I pictured." And Cas goes-

C: Why are they having sex? Why is this happening?

G: Yeah. Also, we get a lot of Dean reaction shots [C laughs] and absolutely no Sam reaction shots. It's hilarious. What is this? Later on, when Cas goes, "Of course, your problems are always my priority," we only get a Dean and Samuel face reaction shot? [both laugh] Like, Sam is also in this episode. Yeah, anyway, Cas goes, "This is a vessel. My true form is approximately the size of your Chrysler building." And Dean's like, "Alright. Quit bragging." What is wrong with him? [both laugh] And they start interviewing Samuel. Is Destiel- they're queer baiting at this point. It's not real. It's called queerbaiting. But also, it's queerbaiting? Is it queerbaiting if it's real? [C laughs] It is. It's extra queerbaiting if it's extra real.

Samuel gets a what he calls an "angel cavity search" from Cas, and as he screams, Christian actually comes in to inspect what's happening, but Samuel makes him go out. And they're really trying to impose this perspective of Christian as like a looming figure, always watching, always watching, [C: Why?] and then later on, we find out the twist, quote-unquote, which is that he's actually a demon this whole time, which I did think was okay.

C: It's unlikely, though. They work with salt and holy water all the time.

G: They work with salt and holy water, and I'm assuming this entire place is demon-trapped to hell and back.

C: Yeah, I'd also assume they test people at the gates because of how high their security is.

G: Because of the fact that there's a fucking gate, yeah. [C laughs] And it's not just him, too. There are many people who are demons. Christian is just the only one we meet. But there's many others, too, and it's like, think about your security, man. Or perhaps-

C: They're all security, so they got fake salt on everyone?

G: No, maybe Samuel specifically was particularly lax on the demon shit because he is working with demons. [C: True.] So that could be a possibility. But I was also surprised that Cas was just able to go in there. Like, they're aware of angels. I mean, Sam did have this perspective earlier in the season where it's like, "Oh, the angels have left us alone because they have better stuff to do, like take care of people or something now that the apocalypse is done," which is factually untrue, but it could also be a reason why Sam would not have told Samuel about angelship and how to repel angels and stuff.

Cas says that like, "His soul is intact," and Samuel's like, "Of course it is. Why would it not be?" And then he realizes that Sam's soul- well, as Sam puts it, "Whatever dragged me out... dot dot dot... left a piece behind." [laughs] Trailer-ass line. They're going to fucking use that in the "Road So Far." [C: For sure.] For sure. Yeah, "Whatever dragged me out, it left a piece behind." And Samuel doesn't really act surprised when he says that he kind of already knew because of how Sam has been acting and all that crap. And then Cas, he looks up, and I think if we were in Cas's perspective, we would hear angel radio, but we're not. So he just looks up. And then he goes, "I have to go." And Dean's like, "Oh, I can't believe you're leaving." And Cas is like, "Yeah, well, I'm in the middle of a civil war." [C laughs] And Dean says, "You better tear up the attic, find something to help Sam." And Cas says, "Of course. Your problems always come first."

C: Slay!

G: Love him. Love him. And we get a very quick reaction shot from Dean, and a very long reaction shot from Samuel? [both laughing] Love that as well. What is Guy Bee doing? Guy Bee, what's up with you? What's happening here? What are the implications?

C: I think he wants Cas to fuck that old man.

G: Literally. And yeah, he goes, "I'll be in touch," and then he disappears. And Sam asks, "What's with all of the people outside?"

C: Well, first, Samuel says, "Would have asked him to stick around for a beer." I think he wants to fuck that guy. [both laugh]

G: Is it so true? I think this statement deserves a "so true." Well, so true! [C laughs]

C: Thank you.

G: But Sam puts together that they have found the alpha vamp and that they have tracked him down and all of that. And Dean kind of starts getting uneasy, and Samuel was like, "Oh, you want to come with us?" And Dean's like, "Well, yeah." And Samuel says, "I don't want you to because I don't trust you." I mean, it's not this direct, but this is the summary of the conversation. But Dean eventually says, "Okay, I'll follow your lead. I'll be a obedient guy, and I won't impose my own tactics or whatever. I just want to be there when it goes down."

C: Also, okay, when Dean goes, "So you don't trust me?" Samuel goes, "No, I just don't know you." [laughing] And there's little bits of sad piano music?

G: They really tried to do a "they're family!" [C: They're not.] It's such an incredibly hilarious thing. "They're not family, but at the end of the day, they're still family," [C laughing] which is the conclusion of this episode. That is what the episode ends with.

C: Yeah. Love it. Love it.

G: Hilarious. Wuv it. And it ends with Dean going like, "I'll follow your lead. I trust you." And it cuts to outside, where he goes, "I don't trust him. He's hiding something."

C: "And if you weren't Robo-Sam, you'd feel it too."

G: I did think that part was like, a little bit charming. Dean being able to talk about in a-

C: Yeah, what I liked about it was how quickly he jumps to Sam being his confidant again, [G: Yeah.] despite Sam being, as he puts it, Robo-Sam.

G: Yeah. There is something so wonderful to me about the fact that later on, he confronts Sam. And like, we already saw him confront Sam before, or at least attempt to, when he was like, "So you knew about the alpha vampire. You knew about it before we were talking about it." Do you remember that one?

C: The alpha shapeshifter?

G: The alpha- the shape shifter, yeah. "The alpha." [both laugh] He tried to do the confrontation with the alpha shapeshifter, and later on, with the "You always have my back, right?" all that shit, and it's always blown up in his face. When he does actually confront Sam like, "Did you freeze there so that I can become a vampire?" and Sam completely lies to his face. But he still does it later, when he was like, "I know you took that guy away." Sam could have been like, "You're seeing things, Dean," [both laugh] which I think he could. Dean would fucking punch him again, but he could have done it. But I don't know. I found it so charming that he thought he could do that and approach it in the way that he is approaching it now, which is that, "No, Sam. You're missing this emotional cue."

C: I think I like the fact that he adjusts to their new dynamic with this new information pretty easily [G: Very quickly.] in a way that seems like it's working just fine.

G: I think it's working because they're back to the dynamic of an older brother teaching his kid, as in literal kid brother, "No, when people act like that, this is what they mean." [laughs] You know? He's back to being-

C: You think that's why Dean's accepting of this?

G: I think that's why that's working for Dean. Not particularly why he's accepting, but I think this is a dynamic that is very easy for him to fall into, because he's instructing Sam about something, and in this case, he's instructing Sam how to read people or how to morally gauge situations, which is something that you do to a child, you know? You tell a child, "When people do that, that's a bad thing." [laughs] You know? "You shouldn't steal. That's bad. When people lie to you, that means they're not trustworthy." [laughs] You know, those are stuff that you teach a little child, and I do think there is an aspect of that that appeals to Dean. Like, I'm teaching Sam like he's a little child again, and I'm telling him, "Oh, it's sketchy when people tell you that they killed someone, but they actually just hid them to torture them." [laughs] Yeah, you know?

C: And, I mean, in 6.01, when Sam tells Dean that they should stick together and hunt together more, he does sort of say, "It's because you like ran in there to try to save those people, even though it was too late. We need somebody with sort of your moral compass around." So yeah, starting from that, he knew something was up, and he did want Dean there to fulfill this sort of role.

G: Yeah, that's the thing. Sam is conducive to it. If he wasn't, it would just be the same situation as it was with, again, Ruby and the demon blood and stuff. But because Sam is conducive to it in a way that is not guilt-ridden, that's why it works. It's a fun thing to watch. Well, fun is an nebulous thing, but, you know, [C: It is fun.] it is a nebulously fun thing to watch. [laughs]

G: Love the word nebulous.

C: Yeah, love the word nebulous also. Sam says, "It's weird that you don't trust him, 'cause [both] he's family." [G: Yeah!] And later, there's a point where he's like, "Wait, what do you mean? Why would he do that? He's our grandfather." [both laugh] And I think that's so interesting!

G: We have discussed this before, right?

C: We have discussed it before.

G: The values that he holds, he's misinterpreting why he holds them, which is so fun! I love it! So fun!

C: It is very fun.

G: I do think it's fascinating the way Dean tries to communicate it to him. Like, "No, you think that. But does he? Does he value that you're his family? He's not Dad," which is also a wild thing to say.

C: [laughing] Insane. The most Winchester thing to say.

G: "He's not a Winchester. He's a Campbell!"

C: Yeah, 'cause okay, what we have right now is Sam just trusts family, but in a way where he seems to trust Samuel over Dean, or at least before this, he did. So I wonder why that is.

G: Because I think-

C: Just, he got to him first?

G: I mean, I think it could be that he got to him first, but also, I don't think that necessarily, he trusts Samuel over Dean because Dean didn't demand that "You tell me-" And after Dean demanded it, he followed. Maybe he's like going by the law. You know how like- I just finished taking a contract and mediations class, [C: Contract law.] [laughs] and there is this one case where they were like, "Part of the legal code of the- civil code of the Philippines is that contracts above 500 pesos involving that amount of money needs to be written down," and so one case was like, "Oh, you can't demand that we pay you 14,000 pesos because you didn't write it down." And then the court was like, "Well, they said that you have to write it down, but it didn't say that you need to write it down to litigate. So it's fine. We can still litigate. Even if you didn't write it down!" That's what Sam is doing. He's like, "Wait, Dean didn't necessarily say that I have to tell him, and that if I don't tell him, it's bad, so I can just still not tell him." So true, Sam. [C: So true.] And only when Dean goes, "No, you have to tell me, one hundred percent, no exceptions," that's the only time Sam started cooperating in the way Dean thought they were already cooperating prior.

C: Yeah, that tracks. I guess I'm also curious about Sam's motivations around hunting and finding the alpha vampire. Is that just because Samuel told him to, or is one of his remaining instincts or values after leaving still, "I should hunt." And if so, where is that coming from? Saving people, or just muscle memory, or like, what?

G: What he kept on saying was he's good at it. [C: Yeah.] And like, I think that's it.

C: It's just knitting to him.

G: It's just like, it's meaningful to him right now, even though that's not really how he navigates- Meaning is not necessarily how he navigates his life as of now, but it is still meaningful to him, just by the mere fact that he does it well, and he does it better than other people, and he thinks he does it better than other people right now specifically because it doesn't mean anything to him, which I- you know. [C: Right.] He thinks he's good at it because he's soulless, so win-win for him from his perspective, I would say.

C: And his desire to be good at hunting over- Because, I guess, what? Dean never told him, "Don't let me get turned into a vampire"? [both laugh] I'm trying to figure out the calculations he did there.

G: He just thinks that like, between getting to the alpha vamp and this, the getting to the alpha vamp is harder to do and more important. We can turn Dean back, we just need to get to the alpha vamp.

C: Yeah, makes sense. Dean thinks that Samuel's connected to Sam missing his soul in some way, so he decides that he's gonna sneak into Samuel's office and try to get some shit. So he breaks in, but Christian's just in a hallway-

G: He literally is.

C: - being like, "Why are you here?" And Dean says he's trying to make a private phone call, and when Christian asks, "To who?" Dean says, "Your wife. let her know I'm not gonna make it over tonight," and then, that's supposed to be cool and fun, but then, later, Christian's like, "And your girlfriend's a slut," and Dean's like, "I'm gonna kill you!" And Dean was right both times?

G: Yeah, I don't know. It's just like a, you know, very generic using the sexualization of the woman that is a partner of this person as a way to exert dominance or whatever. I don't know. People have been doing it for so long. There's a lot to say about it.

C: Yeah, yeah, there sure is. They just threaten each other a bit, and Christian sort of implies that he might accidentally kill Dean during the vampire hunt? [laughs]

G: No, no, it is so funny that Christian goes, "Accidents happen," and Dean replies, "Oh, don't worry, man. I got your back." Wonderful exchange that is! Go, Dean. Love it!

C: But yeah, so he has to go, and he doesn't get any information.

-

G: Yeah. They're all in this like- it feels like "The End" is what it feels like, right? The suicide mission in "The End." But it works, is the difference. So they go in, and Samuel relegates Dean to quote-unquote "the back." He's just gonna hang back here and like sweep out if there's any vampires that run off while they attack the place. And Dean makes a face, and he is placed with Gwen here. Dean makes a face, and Samuel goes, "Oh, is there a problem, Dean?" And Dean goes, "No, sir." And then Gwen goes, "Oh, so you're going to place me with the reject?" [both laugh] And I found this completely amusing, so fun. And she does apologize later. She says, "Sorry about the reject thing." And Dean says, "I've been called worse," just like Will Wood. [C laughs] Gwen says that "Oh, I think what's happening is that Samuel keeps on relegating me for stuff because I remind him of his daughter," which is like, so fucking corny, annoying, and stupid. You have two women. They're just like each other! Like, come on.

C: Yeah, they're not similar in personality. We've met Mary.

G: They're not similar at all! Yeah.

C: And they don't particularly look like each other.

G: Yeah. And like, you know, if she was trying to get out of the life, sure. But I don't know. I feel like there must be aspects of Mary that are like, "I'm grown enough to do this," and that manifests in wanting to be more independent in hunting, but I don't know. It's just a whole situation. [C: Yeah.] Dean says, "Well, it's because you speak your mind." What the fuck? [laughs]

C: No, he wasn't saying, "Well, it's because you just speak your mind." He went, "Oh, what you just said there was really blunt" was his point.

G: Ohh. Wild! I completely-

C: "Oh, well, you just speak your mind," is how he put it.

G: No, I thought it was like, "Well, you just speak your mind!" [C: No.] As "Yeah, that's why you're similar!" Okay, slaycay. Does that completely negate what I was saying earlier?

C: About what?

G: About Mary and Gwen? No. [C: No?] 'Cause I thought this was the thesis. Okay, well, I'll figure out if that's true. Sorry, I do trust you, just like Dean Winchester and Samuel Campbell. [both laugh]

C: So you don't.

G: No, I don't trust you. They kill a vamp that's running off. Specifically-

C: Well, "they" is putting it generously.

G: Specifically, it attacks Gwen, and then Dean gets the vamp but then gets pushed to the ground, and as he's about to be bitten, he pushes the guy to the side, and then Gwen- not willingly- [laughs]

C: He doesn't push the guy to the side. He's about to get got, the vampire's over him, and then there's a spray of blood, because Gwen came up behind the vampire and chopped its head off.

G: Yeah, beheads. And it is a very fun shot of the beheaded vampire on Dean's shoulder as Dean tries to shove it off, and there is a very concerted effort from Dean to wipe away the blood near his mouth and his face, which I did appreciate, that acting choice. Because when that blood spray hit his face, my first immediate thought was like, "Oh, no! The vampire blood!" which like, I love. Love that. Dean says, "Oh, thanks."

C: No, he doesn't say anything. She says, [both] "You're welcome," [G: That's true.] offers her hand to pull him up, and he doesn't say anything, and he doesn't take her hand.

G: He doesn't care. He just wipes his face, yeah. But then he hears the gunshots away, and then he runs towards there, and it's like the scene at "The End" where there's a massacre up front, but now it's a combination of vampires and hunters. And then Dean hears commotions, and he goes to see, and Samuel shoving in the alpha vamp into a van, and Sam is also there.

C: Why was there a woman who was yelling Dean's name in the window? Who was that?

G: It was a hunter.

C: Okay. She saw him?

G: And then she gets- Yeah, "Dean!" and then gets eaten by the vampire. Gets killed, even.

As they head out, Dean runs back, and Gwen starts trying to tell him, "Dude! We were supposed to stay here. Where did you go?" But then Samuel comes in and asks, "Has there been any trouble?" And Gwen says, "Oh, we just, you know, we killed a runner. It's fine." And you know, Dean is like, "Oh! She knows how to play the game, I suppose. And she didn't reveal me, even though I was mean to her." Does Dean say "thank you" now?

C: No.

G: He just gives a meaningful look. [laughs]

C: Sure. I don't think he did that.

G: Yeah, we gave a meaningful look, but he didn't.

C: Wait, maybe I missed this, but you said that Dean asked where the vampire went, and Samuel said they already burned it?

G: Oh, yeah! Samuel says, "Oh, you should just bring marshmallows," which I did think was so funny, "because he's already in the pyre!" which, you know, makes it very explicit that they're lying to Dean.

In the car, they're in the Impala. Dean's driving. And then he asks Sam, "Okay, Sam, what the fuck happened?" And Sam's like, "Nothing weird. We just killed the alpha vamp." And Dean pulls up on the side of the road, and then he walks out, and he's like, "You know what? I saw you take the alpha vamp. How is that not weird?" And Sam just goes, "Oh." [both laugh] And Dean goes, "Oh? What do you mean 'oh'?" And Sam says, "You weren't supposed to see that. Samuel's just been doing it, you know, catching things, and this vamp specifically, to take them somewhere and grill them for info." And Dean's like, "Oh, you mean grilling as in torture. Was that his idea?" And Sam says, "No, it was mine, and I didn't tell you because I think you'd fuck it up because you shoot first and ask questions later, and we need to ask questions."

C: I'm surprised that Dean's history with torture wasn't brought up here.

G: Yeah, no, I thought what it is is that "I think it's going to break you psychologically, having to do all that, or knowing that it's happening." Honestly, Sam could have just said, "I know you're going to say, 'No, don't do that' because you have your reservations." Which like, I don't think is true.

C: Dean doesn't, though. He loves torture.

G: Yeah, that's the thing. Supernatural has good torture and bad torture, and if it works, it's good torture. If it doesn't work, like with this alpha vamp? Bad torture. [laughs] Wild series of events.

C: Yeah. And in this case, it's not bad torture because- it's bad torture because you're putting other hunters at risk by not killing him. That's what they mean by bad torture. [laughs]

G: Yeah, no, it is. Anyway, this is where the family conversation comes up because Dean's asked, "Don't you realize that this is shady?" and Sam's like, "But he's our grandpa!" And Dean says, "You have no instinct. You're seriously messed up," and Sam goes, "Thanks." And Dean starts doing this thing where he's like, "Look. Nobody's forcing you to work with me, but if if we do this, I drive the bus. I call the shots. And you tell me everything, whether you think it's important or not, because you can't tell the difference." And then he goes, "Or, you know what? Go with Samuel. Why not? See how that goes. It's up to you!" And then our next scene is Sam going to Samuel so we think that he did choose Samuel, which is so fun.

C: I mean, nobody actually thinks that, but they tried to make us think it.

G: Yeah, but it's still a fun thing to do. Maybe if this is your first time watching this, and etc. etc., you don't know anything, Sam is a bit of an unpredictable character right now.

C: It's so clearly a setup for the twist, though.

G: Yeah, it is. But like, I think Sam exists in a nebulous space as a character, that it very well may happen. He did just help Samuel put that alpha vamp in the van.

-

C: Yeah, Sam returns to the Campbell compound, and he tells Samuel, "Oh, me and Dean, I don't think we're working together anymore, and I want to be in 100% on the interrogations because this family is it for me now."

G: [laughing] Incredibly funny.

C: But Samuel says, "No. Not until you get your soul back!" So that doesn't work. And Sam's like, "Okay, fine." So then we see him leave and mess around with some things or whatever.

G: In a car, and then we realize it's like a GPS tracker.

C: Yeah, it turns out he turned the GPS tracker on one of Samuel's phones. And then he meets up with Dean in the Impala secretly, and Sam goes, "Oh, you didn't think I'd come back!" at Dean's expression. And Dean goes, "I figured 60/40." Very fun!

G: Which I think is also charming! Like, that's fun.

C: Yeah. I think it's the immediate acceptance that "Okay, I guess this is the situation, and I will just roll with it" is just a nice departure.

G: I think there's also, perhaps, the aspect in Dean where "There is no need to hide my apprehensions because it's not like Sam's gonna be hurt more or gonna be hurt less," or like, "If I try to hurt Sam by lying to him-" you know. If he tried to hurt Sam, it's not gonna work, and if he tried to make Sam feel better by hiding his apprehensions, it also doesn't matter, and so let's just be honest. Which like, they should have just done this from the get-go. [C: Yeah.] Dean, you should have just done this from the get-go.

C: Yeah. When he beat Sam into a pulp at the end of last episode, it was- I mean, he was taking shit out on him. He didn't think it was actually Sam. Or what was that?

G: Yeah, I think so. I think so. Because that is how he interacts with Sam at the beginning of this episode, like, "This is not Sam."

C: Right, though the "Cas, clean him up" is still- Yeah, okay, I'm just trying to think about the the transition from that very angry, betrayed, or like, "This isn't Sam, I need to kill him" thing to this, I think very healthy relationship dynamic that they have right now. How'd he get there?

G: I think what it is is that Sam is keeping true to his word. [C: Yeah.] Dean told him, "You can leave, or you can help me," and then he helps Dean. And the fact that he came back here at this point, it must be a sigh of relief for Dean. He could also just feel disarmed in a way because he was fully expecting- not fully expecting, but he was like 60/40 expecting, as he said, that Sam won't come back. What do you think is the 60?

C: That he would.

G: That he would. Is that how the grammar works?

C: I think that they would have made a joke about it if it was the other way around. [G: Yeah.] Sam would have gone, "In what way?" And Dean would have been like, "40 on you coming back."

G: Yeah, okay, got it. But you know, I think it could also, as I said, I think it could also just be that Dean is a little glad that Sam came back, and that's why he's acting this way.

C: Yeah, perhaps. But he was also chill during the Robo-Sam scene that we commented on, and I feel like that was before Sam had proven anything to him.

G: Yeah, this is true.

C: He's processed it very quickly.

G: I don't think it's processing very quickly. I think Dean is excellent at turning specific aspects on and off in terms of what he's thinking about.

C: Yeah, right. So Sam says that he turned GPS tracking on one of Samuel's phones, and it'll work because he doesn't know anything about technology.

G: Yeah. "He thinks Velcro is magic."

-

C: So they go to a warehouse where he's driven. There's dead man's blood smeared around. When they go inside, they have to hide from Christian, who's patrolling the area. But eventually, they get over to some room where Samuel's holding the alpha vampire in a cage, and he's in [both] a wooden chair, and there's nails through his feet [both] and hands, just like Jesus. [G: Literally.] And the torture device, I think, just sends electricity through the nails.

G: It's an electric chair, yeah.

C: Very rudimentary like. No wonder he got out. You could just break- you're putting electricity in the wood, and the wood's supposed to be holding him there. [laughs] [G: Yeah.] This is what happens when you think Velcro is magic, I suppose. [G laughs]

G: I think the devices are set up by Crowley, actually.

C: What a loser! Don't they torture people for real in Hell?

G: No, they just make them wait in line now.

C: Oh, true. It's because they all broke out of his wooden chair nail contraptions, and he was like, "Shit. Well."

G: Now, they need to line up for the wooden chair.

C: "We can only zap that thing once a day, or else it'll just break entirely." All of those things where it's like, "Regular torture in Hell might seem bad, but what about this emotional pain, or this being bored?" And it's like, actually, I do think the actual physical torture is worse.

G: Yeah. And also, there is emotional pain in being physically tortured [C laughs], and there is probably some boredom in getting tortured. [C laughs]

C: Yeah, and you don't get those things with emotional torture or boredom, so yeah.

Samuel's just asking, "Where is it?" over and over again, and he's not getting anywhere. The alpha vampire, who's honestly so cool, [laughs] [G: Yeah.] I liked his actor a lot.

G: After the electricity he goes, "Ouch. Yeowch. Owie!"

C: "Ouch. Stop. That hurts." [both laugh] [G: So true!]Yeah, completely, flat.

G: Yeah, he's funny.

C: It's really funny. And Samuel's really riled up about this. He's like, "Oh my god! I can't believe this shit. And you know what? I have all the time in the world. I'm just gonna torture you so much. I've got so much torture planned for you," and the alpha vampire is completely unaffected.

G: He goes, "I also have all the time, too." So true!

C: So true. [laughing] And Samuel just gets so mad, he throws his machete to the ground [G laughs] and goes to another room.

G: Literally a temper tantrum.

C: And then the alpha vampire, who senses Sam and Dean behind the door goes, "Come on out, boys." And they go in cautiously, and he asks, "How can I help you?" Yeah, Dean does some exposition that the alpha vampire currently has so much dead man's blood in his veins that he can't send out a psychic signal to get all the vampires to come here.

G: And the the alpha vampire goes, "That's true, isn't it... Dean?" [C laughs] And Dean acts disarmed by this as if it isn't completely fucking obvious why that is. Like, of course, Dean. You were a vampire. You did see one of the visions. Oh, and also, there are [C: Oh, yeah.] moments in this episode where the visions flash for him, which also is quite wonderful, and that is like part of the reason why he was able to tell that some stuff is gonna happen or something, 'cause he recognized it from his psychic bat signal. And the alpha vampire is asking Dean, "Did you enjoy being a vampire?" But Dean starts the electricity running. This entire time, he's trying to electrocute the alpha vampire, but completely unfazed, like literally DGAF.

C: And also, there's times when it cuts to the alpha vampire's really long, sharp, middle fingernail-

G: And it's growing!

C: - which he's using to scratch the wood of the chair.

G: Yeah. Very fun. And the alpha vampire says, "When you were first huddled around the fire, I was the thing in the dark. [C: Slay.] You think you can hurt me? I have all night, boys. [C: And other nights, too.] And I'm happy to tell you whatever you want to know." And so Sam asks, "Why? Why are you gonna tell us them?" And he goes, "Because you're going to be ankle deep in your blood, sucking the marrow from your bones." [laughs] No, no, "I'll be ankle-deep in your blood, sucking the marrow from your bones." Very fun. I think it is very fun to think about an alpha vampire, first of his kind, being the thing that the first Homo sapiens, [C: Yeah.] the people who invented fire, were lugging around from- or like, hiding from. That is- "Oh, I'm the reason why you have instincts to be afraid of the dark" is such a fun thing for a monster to say! [C: I agree.] I enjoyed it so so so so much. When we're recording, and I go, "Oh, I have to change my desk position because I'm scawed," [both laugh] it's because I'm scared of the vampire. That's fun.

C: It is fun. I agree wholeheartedly. He's very good at just conveying sort of the being an ancient being sort of thing. Because I feel like a lot of the vampires we see in Supernatural are kind of like, nasty, snake-like, nesting creatures.

G: But this guy has a certain kind of gravitas to him that we don't really see with the other vampires.

C: Yeah, he has dignity.

G: Yeah. There is a sense of like, "This guy's royalty," I think, in the vampire world, which is very fun. I think because it's a vampire- I think it's a wonderful thing that they chose a vampire for this because we were just talking about it, right? How they kind of use vampires as stand-in for humans because they're the closest thing to a human that a monster is in Supernatural. That is the closest connection that they draw, especially in terms of monsters that are recurring very often in the show, and so it is an excellent choice that the alpha that they really showcase is a vampire because it feels like there's a more even ground. You just have a human being who is extra, extra powerful, it does lend it something, especially because, as we've said before, there is a great relational aspect in terms of the vampire commune. It's a very- it's about the nest, not about one singular guy, and so having their leader here means something, as opposed to, say, the leader of the shapeshifters, who- we don't really understand shapeshifters to be relational or social in that way. So yeah, good choice. Sam asks, "Well, if you're the first vampire, who made you?" [both laugh] And the alpha vampire, very "mwahaha" style, goes, "Well, we all have our mothers." [both laugh] He doesn't say it like that, but he should have. Yeah, they continue asking about "What's with all the vampires?" "Oh, it's because we're going to war." And he points out that Sam has no soul because he smells cold. "What is it like to have no soul? Answer my question." And Sam goes, "No, you answer it first, because you're the one in the cage." But he just keeps going, "The thing about souls is, if you don't have one- if you have one, of course, you either go to Heaven or Hell. But like, what about meee?" which implies a like-

C: That the monsters don't have souls?

G: That they have something that goes somewhere. Because the implication is, if you don't have a soul, you just don't go anywhere, right? Like, there's still an afterlife for them.

C: No, if you have a soul, you either go to Heaven or Hell. [G: Yeah.] And then he says, but his kind goes somewhere else.

G: So they don't have a soul?

C: So they don't have a soul. [G: Ah.] Are witches in Purgatory? No, because Rowena went to Hell.

G: Yeah. [C: Okay.] No, because as we've mentioned before, witches sell their soul to the demons or something.

C: Yeah, so they go to Hell, so that's different.

G: Yeah. It takes Sam and Dean truly, truly a very long time to get to the Purgatory conclusion.

C: Are werewolves in Purgatory?

G: Yes.

C: Or do they only go there if they die while they're-

G: No, Purgatory.

C: Okay, so as soon as they're bitten, they lose their soul, even though part of the times, they're still in control of themselves?

G: That's what I'm saying, I don't think it's losing your soul. I think it's your soul turning to something else.

C: But he says, "If you've got one, you go up or down when you die," so if you go to Purgatory, you don't have a soul.

G: Yeah, okay. But what's with the Empty, then?

C: Um, [laughs] yeah, no. I think they added that one later.

G: No, I just mean like, I don't necessarily think it's you don't have a soul anymore. I think it's like, if you have a soul, you go to Heaven or Hell. [C: Okay.] If you have something else, we don't know where it goes. If your essence is made up of something different other than a soul, it should go somewhere else. [C: Right.] Because it's not like they take their body, and if there's no soul, and there's no body, then what is it? I understand that's a very reductive- [laughs] but like, so there must be something else, is what I'm saying. And that something else is what they're discussing.

C: Wait wait wait, aren't they trying to get the souls in Purgatory to power Cas up?

G: Yeah, exactly. So it's a different kind of soul, [C: Okay.] like a soul that's not the same. I don't know. But anyway, [C: Okay.] that's why the pushback against like, "If you don't have a soul, that's why you end up in Purgatory."

C: But you agree that what he's saying right now is that. It's just that that doesn't end up being true in Supernatural.

G: What do you mean?

C: That the sentence, "The thing about souls, if you've got one, they're predictable. You die, you go up or down. Where do my kind go?" implies that monsters don't have souls, it's just that that ends up being false. It's just about a weird sentence.

G: No no no, I don't think that's true. I think the logic of this sentence is, "The thing about souls, if you've got one," is towards Sam. It's not towards him. It's not inward. "If you've got one, Sam Winchester, is that it goes to Heaven or Hell."

C: If Sam specifically has a soul, it goes to Heaven and Hell.

G: Yeah. And earlier, in the conversation, he asks Sam, "What does it feel like?" And why would he ask that if he doesn't have a soul?

C: I mean, he hasn't met a human without a soul, I assume. [G: Yeah, but-] And also, you can ask someone how something feels if you're also experiencing it. Like, I'm congested. Are you congested? How does it feel?

G: Yeah, this is true. No, but I am on my side, as I usually am. [laughs] I think when he goes, "You die, you go up or down," that is for specific kind of soul. [C: Alright.] But it's not necessarily saying "No soul, where does it go?" It's saying, "Different kinds of soul, where does it go?" or "Different kind of essence or something, where does it go?"

C: Okay, sure. Different kind of essence-

G: What is it called with angels? Oh, it's grace.

C: - which is what Crowley and Cas call souls but the alpha vampire doesn't call a soul.

G: Yeah, like, there is a powering up aspect to it, especially because the way it is interacted within Supernatural this season, it's as energy. Grace is energy as well. And one of the reasons why they say that Heaven is powering down is because they don't have enough grace from angels to keep it running. [C: Yeah.] And so I think it makes sense that, if we are to believe that souls are like soular energy, [both laugh] you know, they're another form of energy, I don't think that it's necessarily that different, the soul of a human being and whatever it is that monsters are made out of, essence-wise, [C: Mm.] if they're going to tap into those as the same kind of source of energy. Yeah. What is this conversation? [both laugh]

C: It's just about Supernatural writing a sentence that's slightly unclear. [G: Yeah.] And also just not having very clear guidelines for their afterlife lore.

G: Yeah, it's Supernatural's fault, and not at all our pedantism.

C: Yeah! Exactly.

G: Anyway, takes them so long to get to the word "Purgatory." The alpha vampire has to be like, "Are we rusty on our Dante?"

C: Yeah, he specifically says, "When we freaks die, where do we go?" which is fun. It's fun.

G: No, I love that line. Because Dean calls him like freak. "Enough with the sermon, freak." And then he goes, "Okay, well, where do we freaks go?" [C: Slay.] And of course it's so fun because of the Sam association as well, very fun. And I think the "little rusty on our Dante?" is so fun because it's Sam who answers, and it's like, "Has Dean not read Dante? He should have said, 'Purgatory,' and then turned to Sam and goes, 'I read!'" [both laugh] Is that such a mean thing to make fun of every time it happens?

C: It was a badly-written scene in the first episode it was in.

G: Okay, so true. The alpha vampire goes, [laughing] "It is filled with the soul of every hungry thing like me-" [both laughing]

C: [laughing] Okay, you're right. He calls them souls, too. Whoops.

G: "- that ever walked this earth. Now, where is it? That's the mystery," because they don't know, and Samuel is trying to find out. And the alpha vampire is saying like, "I don't know where it is, but your grandfather would not take them no for an answer, and it's not because of what he wants. It's because he is being told what to do," which is, earlier, we said, "Oh, he's in so much distress. "The distress is probably coming from "Oh, no-"

C: I still don't know what Crowley has hanging over him.

G: Probably just send him to Hell or something. [laughs]

C: Yeah, that'll do it.

-

C: Samuel shows back up because he literally just went into the next room, and Sam and Dean are having a loudass conversation with the doors completely open with the alpha vampire.

G: As they tend to. They love to do this.

C: [laughs] They do. They do love to do it. And yeah, Dean immediately turns on him and goes, "This is fucking stupid. The alpha vampire is gonna get out and kill everybody, and I know everybody around you thinks that you're some cool action hero, but you're actually gonna get all of them killed." And then Gwen shows up and cocks a gun.

G: Is on Campbell's side, yeah.

C: Yeah. And Dean goes, "Gwen. I thought we had something special!" Weird. And some random guy goes into the room with the alpha vampire.

G: Yeah, and he's scawed!

C: He's scawed! And the alpha vampire taunts him a bit.

G: The vampire just goes, "Are you scawed?" And the guy's like, "Ya!" And then he turns on the electric chair.

C: Yeah, and that helps break the chair. The chair is on its last gasp, and the alpha vampire gets out! Good for him. [laughs] I was really on his side for this entire fight. He's so cool and charismatic

G: It's such a terrifying thing to watch as well, imagining yourself in the situation of that guy, because like, this alpha vampire looks so powerful in his stride. Literally is like, "Okay, time's up" or something. When he gets out of the chair, he stands up and just starts removing the wires very efficiently. Because the entire time, he has been sitting down and he has been- it has acted like sort of a throne. It's also elevated a little bit, so it has become a throne for him, and so he looks like royalty, is the imagery I think that they were trying to do. But then, in this moment, it's like, "Oh, this guy's a fighter." you know? And it is so cool to watch him get out of that cage. And the guy turns around to try to get out, and as he turns around, the vampire's there, baby. He's there.

C: So the Campbells hear this, and they all have to start fighting. And within an hour, the dead man's blood is gonna be out of the alpha vamp's system. He's gonna be able to call every vampire in the world down on them. [G: Yeah.] So Samuel's like, "We have to get him back in the cage," and Dean goes, "No, that's stupid."

G: "Obviously, you can't."

C: "We have to kill him, or we're all gonna die." And Dean starts taking over and giving everyone orders on how to split up and hunt in a team, and they're down with that because of this life or death situation. So, I don't know. They're all running around. At some point, the alpha vampire gets Sam up against a wall, and he says that he has big plans for him because without his soul, and as a vampire, he'll be the perfect animal. And he's about to bite Sam, but then Christian shows up with black demon eyes, like a group of demons shows up, and they sort of grab the alpha vampire and then teleport out. And Sam looks up, and his enemy-to-lovers boyfriend Crowley is up in a balcony, slow-clapping.

G: Exactly. One other thing, I like that in this scene, they never get a hand up over the vampire, basically. [laughs] He gets shot with the dead man's blood, but the vibe is like, unless he literally got teleported out of there, there was no way in hell they were gonna win against him, at all. [C: Yeah.] And I like also that they were like, "Where is he?" And then, [laughs] he just comes in and snaps a guy's head off. And then I also like that when they come into the room, they're in a pack, they're surrounding each other, all of their backs are turned into each other because that's a very defensive position, and it's like, they're so scared. And I think the show does a really good job, directing-wise, of showing how scared they are and how scared they should be, and also how stupid it is that Samuel doesn't want to kill this guy. It really, I think, amplifies the feeling of Samuel is being stupid. Dean isn't just saying this just 'cause he disagrees. This is a genuinely stupid thing to do. I don't know. Shots like that like, it makes the episode.

C: Crowley is saying hi, and Samuel goes, "Bring Christian back! My nephew that you just had possessed?" And Crowley's like, "Oh my god, no! He was possessed ages ago, dude! I keep an eye on my investments." And Dean goes, "You two know each other?" and Crowley says, "Not in the Biblical sense." [laughs] That's reserved for Cas. "More of a business relationship."

G: Yeah, he saw how Samuel and Cas interacted earlier, and he was like, "I don't wanna be mistaken as that." [both laugh]

C: Yeah. And Sam says, "You're Crowley's bitch." Did having a soul make him not say bitch as much? But yeah, so it's revealed that Samuel's been working for Crowley this entire time, and Crowley's been sending him to catch monsters. The higher up in the food chain, the better. And he's also looking for Purgatory, and he says it's because he wants it for real estate.

G: Location, location, location.

C: He calls Sam and Dean his employees, and he says that he knew that he could get Sam and Dean to work for him through Samuel because they're all hung up on family loyalty nonsense. And Dean's like, "Well, fuck that." But Crowley says, "Um, I have Sam's soul, so you have to do what I say." And Samuel knew the whole time that Crowley was the one who pulled both of them up, or at least that's what he believes. [G: Yeah.] Yeah, Crowley does his whole "I'm king of Hell, and I have so much power, so I definitely did that, and I will shove Sam back into Hell if you don't listen to what I say." I mean, Sam's soul is already being tortured in Hell. Sam is essentially, in many ways, still there. But yeah, he's like, "Okay, so you work for me now. Here are your duties. Goodbye." And Gwen's really upset that they're working for a demon, specifically, [G: Yeah.] and Samuel's just like, "Uh, well, trust me, though. Please? We're still doing the same job." She goes off reluctantly. And Sam goes, "Working with a demon, huh? You're not who I thought you were." [G laughs] I guess if Sam was soulled, he'd have more thoughts about Ruby and general demon trust stuff like he did in Season 5 with Crowley, but I guess currently, it's just the "I don't like demons" with no particular emotional affect to it that's shaping him right now.

G: He's like, he's just playing this role. For some reason, this part reminded me of "The boys are out tonight, huh?" I think it's because of the "Working with a demon, huh?" [C: Yeah.] And he's playing gay. He's playing the role of being mad.

C: And Samuel says, "You don't know anything about me, son," which I think is meant to mirror the him telling Dean he doesn't know him yet that we were supposed to be sad about earlier.

G: Ugh. So corny.

C: And yeah, Dean asks what Crowley offered Samuel. "Girls? Money? Hair?"

G: No, he's really obsessed with this guy being bald! Didn't he- Was this the guy earlier, he was like, "And you're bald!" or was that another guy that was just bald.

C: [laughs] No, that was Zachariah. [both laugh] But Crowley calls Samuel "Captain Chromedome." So yeah, Supernatural's really obsessed with when people are bald. It's been true during Kripke era and currently during Gamble era, so it's not any manifestation- I think people are just mean about bald people in general.

G: Yeah, I think even until now, people think it's part of the group of traits that are reasonable to make fun of. Being fat? You can't make fun of that. Being short? You can't make fun of that. Being bald?

C: People make fun of people for being short. I think people think that's okay.

G: Yeah, but I don't think so. I think there is an understanding that you shouldn't make it a part of your value judgment of people. There is very little now of like, "Oh, you're short. That's why you act this way." But there is a lot of like, "Oh, you're bald. That's why you act this way."

C: [laughs] Wait. What do people think bald people act like?

G: I think people think bald men are creepy. I think that is still a thing, and that is something I had to field from people around me talking about a bald person in my life because they think he's creepy. And I had to be like, "Don't think like that." I've experienced this in real life.

C: I see. I feel like the main trait people still make fun of is like, dick size, and that's about it that I see.

G: Yeah, I think maybe I don't experience that as much as I would say cis people would, just because the circles I run around, [laughs] it's less- there's less whatever. [C: Yeah.] Sometimes, I'll interact with people who are not in my immediate circle, and I'm like, "Eugh. [both laugh] What's happening there?" That is how I felt about the bald thing. It's so shocking to hear. People actually- people notice it in a way that I think- or at least point out noticing it in a way that they won't point out other things. Some people think that it's rude to say that someone is old, but it's okay to say that they're bald in a way that attributes it to their oldness and attributes a character trait to it. I don't know. It's a weird thing.

C: Okay, yeah. I mean, I feel like a lot of physical traits are up for people to make fun of-

G: You still think so?

C: - in many different circles. [G: Yeah.] But yeah, I guess you're saying in your circle, baldness is the only one.

G: Yes. I mean, I wouldn't say the only one, [C: One of the only ones.] but it is surely there, prominently. It's prominently on top. There's this term in Filipino called pendong, and it's specifically like, slapping a bald head, and people would say it when they see like a bald person. [C laughs] It's weird!

C: Yeah, slapping bald heads has been a meme on Tumblr in recent years too.

G: Yeah, but like, I don't think you would see a bald person, and you would go, "I'm gonna slap your bald head" [both laughing] immediately.

C: Yeah, probably not in real life.

G: Yeah, or in real life, you're talking about a bald person you'll point out like, "Oh, he's bald, and I'm gonna slap his bald head"? [C laughs] I don't think you will. Yeah. It's a weird thing.

-

C: Samuel is cagey about whatever Crowley offered him, and he goes, "You gonna make a move? Go ahead. But I won't do anything to you, Dean. You boys, you're my family." [both laughing]

G: "You're my famiwy!"

C: They just say the word "family" in Supernatural to mean anything. To do anything.

G: And Dean immediately has a change of heart. He's like, "Sam, he's right." And Sam's like, "No, Dean! He's not!"

C: Yeah, Sam is pointing a gun at Samuel.

G: Yeah, Sam takes the reasonable stance that-

C: Samuel goes, "Put a bullet in your grandfather or step aside," and Sam goes, "Okay," and points his gun.

G: Yeah. And the thing is, Sam is now playing by the logic that Dean has been going, which is like, he has been saying, "We can trust him because he's family," and Sam now is like, "Oh, we can't trust him. Dean is right." And Dean is like, "No, Sam. I've finally relegated to your point, which is that he is family, and we should trust him no matter what." Not trust him no matter what, but we should spare him.

C: Yeah. Okay, and Sam says what he's angry about Samuel about is that "he sold us out." [G: Yeah.] To who? In what way?

G: Like, to Crowley!

C: How did he sell them out to Crowley?

G: Literally selling their labor. [laughs]

C: No, but that's not what "sold us out" means!

G: I know. I know. I think it is with Crowley, from that angle.

C: Okay, what's the actual betrayal? Like, I get "He lied to us." But what was the actual betrayal that would count as selling out?

G: I think he used this term nebulously.

C: Okay, yeah, maybe so. And yeah, Dean's just like, "No, don't kill him!" And he tells Samuel to leave. And then Sam goes, "So what now?" And Dean goes, "We can't work for Crowley." And Sam immediately goes, "I want to work for Crowley, though!" [laughing] So like, what was he mad about? [both laughing]

G: He's just going off vibes, Crystal. Let him be. The vibes are all over the place, so he doesn't really know. He's not sure.

C: I guess it's "The personal betrayal of him knowing that Crowley had my soul is what I'm mad about, but I'm not actually that upset about having to work for Crowley." [G: Yeah.] Yeah, I can't tell if it's intentional, this is how his logic works now, or if we just need to end this with "And we're brothers, and we're gonna fight this together!"

G: You know, what I think, though, it is a great betrayal in a way to not say that Crowley is the one who brought them back because they could have killed Crowley the other episode, and Sam would have lost the opportunity to get his soul back from his perspective now. [C: Fair.] I think there is an aspect of great betrayal to that. So like, you know, Sam could be coming from that place.

C: Alright. I believe it. So Sam says, "I get why you don't want to work for him. But we don't have any other choice because we just gotta get my soul back." Oh, also, isn't there a point this episode where Dean asks Sam, "Do you even want to get your soul back?"

G: Yes. And Sam goes, "Of course I do."

C: I think it's an interesting question. 'Cause currently, here, he's also being like, "I really want to get my soul back." Why?

G: I don't know. He's just vibing.

C: I just don't really see why he would want it.

G: I think- Oh, I looked it up, and he doesn't say, "Yes, I want my soul back." He says, "How does that have anything to do with the fact that Samuel is torturing people?" [both laugh] Hilarious!

C: For real. Yeah. But here, he's saying that he wants his soul back. So yeah, "I guess this is stupid, but we'll just work for Crowley until we find another way." And Dean goes, "And then?" And Sam goes, because this is the end of the episode [G laughs], and this is how every episode of Supernatural ends, "And then we track Crowley down and give that son of a bitch what's coming to him. You with me, Dean?" [laughs] And yeah.

G: And then we get piano- Was it piano music? There was music playing.

C: I don't remember what it was. It feels like a rock music moment.

G: Yeah, I always like the episodes where there's no music playing at the end, where it ends with complete silence. Love those.

-

G: Okay, what do we think about this episode? I think it's very obvious from how I've spoken about it that I actually did quite enjoy it. I like this episode.

C: Yeah, I had a fun time.

G: Yeah. It's both good for watching and good for analysis, which I do think there are a lot of times where those two are not congruous with each other. Wow, congruous. [both laugh]

C: Oh, what did I think? I had fun. [G: Hell yeah.] I love soulless Sam.

G: Love it! I thought it was gonna be kind of miserable, but no, I'm having fun in Season 6 so far. I am! I think there's a lower stakes feeling to it. We're like, we're not deeply entrenched in Season 4 and Season 5, the supposedly good seasons, so we can just fuck around. And so in Season 4 and 5, when an episode was good, it was like, "Well, it's Season 4 and 5." And when an episode is bad, it's like, "How dare it be bad?" Now it's like, when it's good, "Oh my god! It's so fun! I didn't expect it to be good! I expect nothing to be good!" [laughs] So yeah. Best Line/Worst Line.

G: I don't like the "your wife" line and the "your slut girlfriend" line. [C: Yeah.] It feels so- I think it was in that scene, and in a couple of scenes in this episode, where I was viciously reminded of how much of a boys’ club Supernatural is. [C: Mm-hm.] And yeah, I was ruminating a little bit during our one-week break about how I like Supernatural, and I do, and the masculine aspects of it are fun for me, but I remember being a kid and being viciously reminded of "Oh, they don't see me as a part of this. Like, I'm not part of this." and that being like a little bit of a sad thing. It's not like I want to be- Well, I mean. [laughs] But like, you know what I mean. There is a different aspect to, I think, admiration of the masculine aspects of the show. Not particular admiration, like fascination, however you want to call it. And then also the vicious reminder that it's not made for you, it's not for you, all that crap. And also that in this universe, they don't want you there. I don't know. It's just a fascinating experience as, I think, a a young kid watching it. [C: Yeah.] And now I'm older, and I'm still watching it.

C: Best line is- "I didn't want it to come to this. You're not gonna hold me, Dean. Not here, not in a panic room, not anywhere."

G: No, that is good.

C: "You're stuck with the soulless guy, so you might as well work with me." A slay and a cay.

G: Yeah, I think I like the line- What line do I like? What are the scenes of this episode?

C: You liked when the alpha vampire said, "When your kind were huddled around the fire, [G: Oh, yeah.] I was the thing in the dark."

G: Yeah. I like when the alpha vampire said, "When you were huddled in the fire, I was sitting around in the dark." I don't know. Very fun. I've talked about it, love it. [C: Yeah.] Love a guy who is the evolutionary basis of being creeped out!

Well, spreadsheets? Spread those sheets. Hell yeah.

C: We probably should have figured out the racism points we were going to give this before we got to this point of recording.

G: I wouldn't give it any, honestly. What do you think? No? Yes?

C: I think that it's a general larger Supernatural problem. I don't think there's any added racism, but I think that just in general, if you're not gonna have Black characters, you shouldn't have the evolutionary basis [G laughs] of vampires be a Black man who's menacing this compound of white people, [G: This is true.] and that's the entire conflict to this episode.

G: Yeah, are they all Campbells?

C: I guess?

G: How have they extended their line? How many siblings does this guy have? Mary doesn't have any siblings. [C laughs]

C: I don't know.

G: What the fuck does this family tree look like? Oh, I mean, there are people from "outside," quote-unquote, because Christian is married, for example, and etc etc. Okay, so they're all married to hunters as well? If you don't marry a hunter, you're excommunicated? [laughs]

C: Well, I don't think his wife is around, in the camp.

G: It's just mentioned that- No, no, no, didn't they give a baby to someone that one time? They were like, "Oh, yeah. You want a baby, right?

C: Yeah. So I mean, I think she knows about hunting, but I don't think she's involved with the Campbell compound.

G: Ah, okay. No, I was just thinking in terms of like, these are all white people. You're right. This place is all white.

C: Yeah. No interracial relationships in the Campbell family.

G: Yeah, okay. How would we point that?

C: I don't know.

G: It's like, we have casual, right? And then we have fundamental to the episode.

C: Yeah, I think it is fundamental-

G: It's fundamental to the season.

C: It's fundamental to this, so how does that translate to an episode-by-episode basis?

G: I think we should do as we've done before, evaluate on an episode-by-episode basis, and then character's last appearance, and also, let's- Maybe this is unfair because we didn't really give this kind of onus to Eric Kripke, but- I don't know. Do you think it's unfair [laughing] to Sera Gamble to call her racist-

C: No!

G:- because we didn't call Eric Kripke racist?

C: Did we not call Eric Kripke racist? I guess we didn't call him specifically racist. We called episodes under his purview racist.

G: No, exactly. But we do frequent- For example, we we have writers who frequently have things going on. Like Ben Edlund has always had misogyny going on.

C: Something weird about women going on. [laughs]

G: And you know, Sera Gamble always has some racism thing going on. [C: Yeah.] So, yeah.

C: So basically do the evaluation at the end of the season, or in his last appearance, the alpha vampire's last appearance. But I wouldn't give this 0 either. I feel like we should keep a running something.

G: Okay. Running tally.

C: Maybe just like 1 as in like, "The racism was there, and we're going to add it all up to something at the end."

G: Yeah, okay. I do think there is misogyny on this one. I would say 1. I think that counts as a 1, casual misogyny.

C: Yeah, agreed.

G: Homophobia. I don't think there's any. They didn't say that Sam was gay for not having a soul.

C: Yeah. [laughs] Crowley said Samuel was not gay for working for him. [laughs]

G: Oh, yeah! No, I don't think that's homophobia. He was being for real.

C: I don't think it counts. It was fun. [laughs] I know that's not the metric, but. [both laugh] They're separate things. I don't think it was homophobia, and separately, I think it was fun.

C: Yeah, yeah. IMDb. I am that Db. [laughs]

C: What does Db stand for?

G: I don't know.

C: Dean Binchester? [G laughs]

G: Yes, it does.

C: Okay, I'm odd, so I'm guessing. I want to say that this is decently high. [G: Yeah.] Like, it's the big reveal, which people have been waiting for. There's a lot of action. I think the alpha vampire is very cool. But it's been really low this season besides "Weekend at Bobby's." Okay. 8 point... 7. [G: Hm.] I'm gonna get fucked over.

G: I'm making this- Actually, 8.7 is a very good guess.

C: Or is it?

G: I think I'm going to hedge one lower. 8.6. [C: Yeah.] Okay, let's see.

Oh, it's an 8.0. [laughs]

C: What?

G: Why are we so bad? We're horrible at it!

C: Do people hate women? Meaning Sera Gamble?

G: "Great episode, but confusing conclusion."

C: That's fair. [G laughs]

G: "The episode was great. But I need to talk about the final revelation with Crowley... I don't get how they have any problem with working with Crowley to get Sam's soul back." Well, it's Sam's soul. Have you considered?

C: Yeah. [laughs]

C: This one says there's too much info, so they didn't like that there's so much loredump.

G: Oh, no!What they're saying is like, "I don't get how they have any problem with working with Crowley," and this is their reasoning. "Sure, Croh- Crowley brought both-" [laughs] I'm reading like a five-year-old! [C laughs] "Sure, Crowley brought both. Sam-" [laughing]

C: "Both Sams back," like Sam and Samuel.

G: Okay. Sure. "Crowley-" [both laugh] The r's are getting to me. Can you read this bit?

"Sure, Crowley brought both Sams to be his personal hunting squad and he kept Sam's soul in the cage for insurance. So what? Better than dead. And all you have to do to seal the deal is kill and question some monsters? Sounds like a normal Tuesday night for these guys. [laughs] I cannot see the negative here." So true!

C: Yeah, they just hate working with demons for reasons.

G: Yeah. Then, "This is a great deal. Why are they saying no?" And this one says, "It's too much info." I like the pacing. I suppose if you didn't know that Sam has no soul prior, it is whiplashy-.

C: I guess. But you knew something was up at this point.

G: You knew something was up, but they don't let it- As you said, they just accept that Sam is soulless. And we both like that. We both like that aspect of it. [C: Yeah.] But I'm assuming, if you never knew that Sam is gonna be soulless in Season 6, you'll be like, "What? And Dean's just fine with this, and they're just fine with this?"

C: Fair, yeah. This person's wondering about Adam.

G: "And they have a normal, healthy relationship?"

G: "Crowley brought Sam and Samuel back?! I find that hard to believe." [C: Well.] Well, buddy, you don't have to.

C: They said "Rick Worthy was the best vampire version on the show," which is true.

G: Hell fucking yeah. Is that the name of the actor? What's the name?

C: Rick Worthy is what they're calling the actor. I can check to make sure that is indeed the name, because sometimes they get names wrong. [G: Let's see.] Yes, that's what IMDb says.

G: Hell yeah.

C: What else has he been in? He was very good.

G: Yeah, let's see. Rick Worthy...

C: Four episodes of Gossip Girl. [laughs] Oh my god, he was in 41 episodes of The Magicians, so I guess Sera Gamble has brought him over.

G: Has worked with him, yeah.

C: This was in 2015, so it would've happened after.

G: What is The Magicians? What is The Magicians?

C: It's a show that Sera Gamble made that queerbaited, is the main thing I know about it.

G: No, yeah, I know that it queerbaited, but in what way? How did it queerbait?

C: I think that the two characters, there's some point when one of them's in a different universe or in a dream where he does kiss the other guy, but then, [G: Noo.] when they come back to the real universe, they never talk about it again?

G: Love that! Love that!

C: I think that's just how gay people are. I think if you told Auden about that, he'd be like, "That's right."

G: Yeah, no, if you told Auden about that, he'll be like, "Oh, it's because they're artists, [both laugh] and artists are all weird and complicated." But only artists. If you're a gay person who's not an artist, you're literally normal. [C: Yeah.] I'm obsessed with him. I think I finally admitted to myself that he is my new thing I'm obsessed with. [C: Yeah.] But only specifically his lectures on Shakespeare. Everything else, who give a fuck? Well, I like his poetry sometimes. Sometimes I don't.

G: That’s it for this episode of Busty Asian Beauties. Next week, we will be discussing Season 6, Episode 8: "All Dogs Go to Heaven." Leave us a rating or a review wherever you get your podcasts.

C: I really don't know what happens in Season 6 episodes. Well, anyway. Follow us on social media! We are on Tumblr at bustyasianbeautiespod.tumblr.com. Our official tag is #BABPod, B-A-B-POD. Thanks to everyone who's donated to our Ko-Fi at ko-fi.com/bustyasianbeautiespod, which is where our outtakes live, and check out our merch at babpod.redbubble.com.

G: You can email us any feedback, comments, or inquiries at bustyasianbeautiespod@gmail.com. See you guys next time! [both] Bye!

[guitar music]

[bustyasianbeautiespod]

Episode 110 Transcript: Cunty Diva Voice

[intro guitar music]

G: Hello, it's Grey.

C: Hi, it's Crystal.

G: And this is Busty Asian Beauties, a Supernatural commentary podcast where I, someone who has seen this show several times...

C: And I, someone who only knows the show through social media, discuss every single episode of Supernatural from start to finish. Also, we are both Asian.

G: Both Asian! For today's episode, we will be discussing Season 6, Episode 8: "You Can’t Handle the Truth," written by- it’s a long list.

C: Who the fuck are these people?

G: So story by David Reed, Eric Charmelo, and Nicole Snyder. Teleplay by Eric Charmelo and Nicole Snyder.

C: What teleplay?

G: Like, it's the script. I don't know. Like, it's story vs script or something. [C: Okay.] then directed by Jan Eliasberg. We all know Eric Charmelo and Nicole Snyder, like, they're gonna be here.

C: Do we?

G: Well, I mean I do. Eric Charmelo is gonna be- okay, he's gonna-

C: Oh my god, he wrote “Dog Dean Afternoon,” your favorite episode.

G: Yes! Oh my god! That's why I know him! And intimately, even!

C: Okay, I have heard of him because I think he either liked or retweeted Destiel fanfiction once. [G: Oh, yeah.] Or no, Destiel art.

G: Probably. Yeah. Nicole Snyder. They're the combo, the duo.

C: And this director has only directed this episode.

G: Yeah. “Dog Dean Afternoon.” Writers of all time. One would even say the writers of the best episode of Supernatural. [both laugh] But you know, let's see when we get there. This episode, "You Can't Handle the Truth," they're going to borrow an element of this in the future with Jack.

C: Yeah, he truth spells everybody, and then they're like, "We gotta kill him."

G: Yeah, but it's not really- I think that one is played a lot more for comedy, but probably just because late season Supernatural is so fucking funny, so that's probably why I think it's hilarious. This episode, I do think they do clever things with it. I enjoyed the case. I like the case. I think, for example, we realize- maybe you realized this before me, but we realize when the Dean thing happens where he like, curses everyone to be honest with him, that like, it's triggered by saying, "Oh, I just want the honest truth" or something. [C: Yeah.] And I think they do it subtly enough in the previous times that we've seen it that like, you don't really catch that that's what's happening.

C: Yes, you do. [G: No!] They zoom in on her mouth in the cold open. Were you knitting?

G: [laughing] I was, but- [laughing]

C: [laughing] Okay, next.

G: At what point do I need to stop knitting while watching the episode? To be fair, I did try watching that episode-

C: When you start watching the episode. [laughs]

G: [laughing] No, like, in the long run in life. At what episode should I start not knitting?

C: You know what? Probably Season 6 doesn't matter until "Man Who Would Be King."

G: I mean, Cas is in this episode very briefly, which I loved. I love it!

C: Yeah, why did they have sex on my screen? [both laugh]

G: No, that pouring the thing is crazy! I did put down my knitting. [both laugh] Yeah, well. I think I have said this many, many times; many, many, many times, but I do love it when Cas is like a mysterious guest who shows up only for a bit of the episode. Love it! [C: Yeah.] Always. Always do, always will, always have. Well, yeah, what did you know about this episode, actually? Did you know that Dean and Cas were gonna have gay sex?

C: You misled me about it last time because I think I thought this was the "fight the fairies" episode, and you were like, "Yep." But it's not. So I didn't know anything about it.

G: [laughing] Okay, I'm so sorry I don't know. I mean, "You Can't Handle the Truth" feels like-

C: It sounds similar to "Clap Your Hands If You Believe," yeah.

G: Yeah, sounds like it could be a title of an alien episode.

C: I agree.

G: But apparently, it's not. I actually forgot that they do this gimmick because this whole, like, "everybody is going to be brutally honest with me," or around me is a thing that I only remember from, you know, Season 14 when it happens.

C: I knew there was an earlier truth spell episode that happened because there were people in the Destiel world who are like, "Well, what if Cas showed up after Dean had said the thing. Let's think about it." [G: Ah.] But yeah.

G: Okay, slay. I mean, I also realized, in the- they did a "coming soon" or whatever part, a couple episodes back, and they did have a part where Dean was like, "You can't lie to me anymore. What is it, Sam?" You know. [C: Yeah.] Love the Sam bits this episode. Truly do.

C: Yeah. I thought the case was whatever. I think the Sam stuff was interesting.

G: I think the case is good for what they were trying to do, which is, you know, it's not really a case episode where it's about the case. It's very much not about the case. [C: Yeah.] Yeah. So I appreciate it for what it was. I do want to have just a plain old regular case episode again, but I guess until Sam is not soulless anymore, we can't really have that, can we? So yeah, love a case. Where are we gonna have a case? This season is going to have that scene where Cas is about to get eaten by a vampire or something, and then Dean chops its head off, and then it's like, blood that sprays like cum on Cas. [laughs]

C: Ohhh, yes! Yes, I know of what you speak.

G: [laughing] Literally unrelated to anything that happens this episode. I just thought I'd bring it up. Okay, well. "Road So Far." Just basically what they did before last episode and also last last episode. I do think that they do a good job of really putting us in the situation of Dean's, I don't know, emotional state. They focus a lot on Lisa and Ben, and then they focus a lot on the insecurity he feels with regards to Sam. Later on, we'll discuss it as like- But I do think if you watch this, and then you watch the final scene of the episode, you understand. They connect the themes well where it's like, Dean is like- Was it last episode? Oh, no, no, no! I thought they said this last episode, but I thought, "Maybe it's too in your face to say this." But no, it was said by someone who reviewed it on IMDb. [laughing]

C: What?

G: What somebody said, that like, "I can't believe Dean is losing everything! He's losing Lisa and Ben and his trust to his little brother." You know, all that.

C: Well, he tells Bobby, "You're the only one I can talk to about Sam and Lisa and all that stuff," so he basically says it.

G: Yeah. And the last scene of this episode is about that. Like, Dean realizing that he has lost it. He lost Lisa and Ben because of his brother, who he has also lost. And it's like, well. Slaycay. I mean, it's, you know, I have complicated feelings about it. But okay, let's proceed.

-

G: First scene of this episode is, we are at a... dun-dun-dun! [both] Biggerson's! Love it! Love a Biggerson's. We have seen a Biggerson's before in Season 3 with Bela, right? [C: Yes.] That was a Biggerson's. They won a whole year free burgers or something.

C: A bunch of free meals from it or whatever.

G: Yeah, love it. But like, I don't think we have seen a Biggerson's as prominently as this after.

C: Probably not.

G: Yeah, I mean, Biggerson's is gonna be a big deal next season. They really go ham on the Biggerson's. One may even say they go big on the Biggerson's. But basically, this woman who is working as a waitress tonight, is calling her friend or her [both] sister, I think. And she's saying that like, "Yeah, it's just this guy, he didn't really call me back, but like, maybe I should call him! We had a good time," and you know, she's doing all that. And then she goes, "Ugh, it's just so complicated. But I just- I just need the truth." And apparently, it zooms in her mouth. Who give a shit?

C: Yeah, yeah, it's just her mouth. [both laughing] It's clear immediately from the first one minute of the episode that that is what triggers the truth thing.

G: Well, have you considered that some people are not looking at this screen all the time for the entire 42-episode run of this episode? [C laughing]

C: Well, yeah, I have considered it, and I think those people should grow up. [G laughs] No, it's literally fine. You should knit.

G: Yeah. And you know, she goes out and about. This is so funny because I thought it was the cook that cursed her or something! [laughing]

C: With his cum?

G: Yeah, anyway, the cook says that, "Hey-" You know, she's getting soup from him to serve to the people, and he tells her that like, "Hey, stay away from the clam chowder. Flavored it with my own... dot dot dot... seasoning." And she's like, "Okay, weird. The fuck?" She goes out. A guy who's a manager in a store tells her, “You know what? Our new waitress? She's so much hotter than you. She's like an 8, and you're like a 3.” He doesn't say it in a gay voice. [C laughs] He says it in like a derogatory way. I mean, I guess, also, if you say it in a gay voice, it's also derogatory.

C: It's still derogatory. [laughs]

G: But you know what I mean. He's not saying it in like a "I'm a cunty diva" way. And then she goes up to a lady. The lady goes, “I killed a homeless guy once by running over him, and I didn't even stop to see if he was alive.” Another little girl is like, “I hate my mommy!” and that she'd want to burn her in her sleep. You know, it's just all of this, you know, like someone telling her, she's a creep. "You're pathetic. A desperate loser." And then eventually, she just gets overwhelmed, opens a drawer, picks up a gun, and then she goes to call her sister. And her sister is like, "Oh, you sound horrible! Have you been drinking? Oh, you're a freak." And she goes, "You're certifiable"? [laughs] Love it! Yeah, she says, “Every time my phone rings, I hate it so much, and I want you to kill yourself. Why don't you just kill yourself?” And then she does. Yeah. And the way she does it is like, you know, we get the blood splatter and it like, pans up, and as the blood splatter happens, and it's at a Biggerson's sign.

C: So her sister says that she hates getting calls from her because she always has "another crisis." I feel like talking about whether or not you want to call a guy back is like, just- that's part of the friendship and sister contract.

G: That's regular, yeah.

C: That's not a crisis. It's a fun thing you bring to your friends so you can have a conversation. I feel like if they wanted that to land, she should have actually been having a crisis at the beginning.

G: Yeah. And also like, later on, the way it was portrayed, or when Sam and Dean interview the sister is that this waitress has always been like depressed or something. Like, yeah, she has suicidal tendencies, and this pushed her over the edge kind of thing. [C: Yeah.] And it's like, we don't really get that vibe. So yeah, like, I suppose-

C: I mean, she has a gun in a drawer. I think that says something, yeah.

G: But like, it's at work. [laughs]

C: Yeah, in case she wants to kill herself at work, too. [laughs]

G: I mean, where else are you gonna do it?

C: Yeah. [laughs] Dean's talking to Bobby on the phone, and Bobby's like, "Maybe I do love you like a coworker." He just doesn't seem super engaged in what Dean said about just, "Something's off with Sam." Dean thinks that he might be possessed by Lucifer, which is fun. I didn't think about that as a potential way Dean could think about it.

G: I mean, the last time Dean saw Sam was he was possessed by Lucifer.  It makes sense. I didn't consider it, too, but from Dean's entire point of view, it makes complete fucking sense. I just hadn't thought of it before.

C: Yeah, he just stayed in there. He's been calling Cas. No answer. And Bobby's like, “Are you sure that what you saw is what you saw?” And Dean's like, “Um, yes. And also, I'm gonna kill him!” [both laugh] And Bobby's like, “Okay, I agree that something's off. Just don't kill him yet because we need to know how to kill him [both laughing] before you try.” So true.

G: Bobby's never beating the coworker allegations.

C: [laughs] Yeah.

G: Later, this is the episode where he tells Dean, "You're my favowite!" [C: Yeah.] And he's like, under a spell, so he can't even lie. This is the whole fucking truth. And we know it's true, but like, we know it's double true.

C: But yeah, Bobby is just like, “Whatever, suck it up. Get in the car with him. I know he gives you the creepy-crawlies, but he is your case. Pay attention.” So Sam comes up with sandwiches for the two of them, and Dean's like, “I was just calling Lisa!” And Sam puts on like a fake sympathetic face about how she still hasn't called him back.

G: Yeah. [laughs] But like, it's not effective. He goes like, "Oh, she, you know, she hasn't contacted you yet?" And Dean's like, "Yeah." And Sam, automatically, without any pause whatsoever, just goes, "Sucks." [both laugh] So true!

C: So real. But yeah, he brings out the newspaper with Jane's suicide, saying that it's the fourth in that town in the week. So they go to interview her sister Olivia. They throw, I think, another Obama joke where Sam says, “The reason that the FBI cares about a suicide is because it's a new, more caring administration.”

Olivia seems really nervous, and she lies about how, "Oh, I just tried to cheer Jane up." And Sam gets really intense, and he's like-

G: - smirking a little bit.

C: "You just displayed a tell. Do you know what that is? It's a poker term for when you're bluffing. You're a fucking liar!" Except instead of saying it in a cunty diva voice, he just says it in a menacing, straight man voice. [laughs] Not that he is straight, but that's what his voice is like in that scene.

G: Yeah, but like, he's really giving it all with his sicko smirk in this episode. This entire time, every single scene where he's like, talking about these people he's like, "Ugh! This is so fun! Look at this woman! She's lying!" like, that's the vibe the entire time from Sam.

C: He seemed pretty sympathetic later when he talked to the sister or friend or mom or whoever of that girl?

G: Girlfriend? I'm not sure. Yeah. [both laugh] [C: But yeah.] The sister, mom, or girlfriend.

C: Well, not girlfriend.

G: Are you sure?

C: Because she was worried about her boyfriend cheating on her. I mean, could also be a girlfriend, but I feel like if you were in a polyamorous situation, you'd be less worried about cheating?

G: Was she talking about a woman? I thought she was talking about a guy who- it's the car crash, right?

C: Yeah.

G: Yeah, I thought the person who crashed the car was a dude, and she's the girlfriend.

C: No, the person who crashed the car was like, a high school girl who was worried that her boyfriend was cheating on her [G laughs] and who killed her pet cat to summon Veritas or whatever her name is.

G: Okay. Well, love is love or something.

C: [laughs] Yes. Yeah. So Sam goes, “Tell us what you did to your sister.” And Dean's like, “Holy fuck, Sam.” But yeah, Olivia breaks down and says that she wanted to tell Jane, “I love you. I'm here for her.” But what came out was, “You're a burden. Just kill yourself.” And she's crying,and really upset with herself about it. Jane's whole- the whole day, she killed herself because every time she went somewhere, people were like, “You're a loser, and I hate you.”  Is that really the deepest truth of everybody who eats at the Biggerson's? I don't know. I feel like the beginning's kinda incongruous.

G: I feel like, if you're eating at a Biggerson's, you would not give a fuck. [C: Yeah.] That's how I feel about when I eat anywhere. [laughs]

C: Yeah. I don't think I've ever had an opinion about a waiter besides like, “I hope that I'm being polite to this person.” Yeah, so after that interview, they didn't find anything in the house that indicates witchcraft, but Sam says, “I bet she was already suicidal because she had a tuba and crochets.” [both laugh]

G: And is there truth to this?

C: Well, you knit. So- No, that's probably not a joke for the podcast.

G: I also crochet.

C: You also crochet, yeah.

G: Yeah, and I keep a harmonic on my desk that I've never used. [C laughs]

C: But yeah, and they're just like, "I wonder why her sister said that shit." And they drive off.

-

G: We go to a dentist's office. It's obvious that these two, the patient and the dentist, are kind of like, they know each other, previously. And the patient is like, “Oh, this is horrible! You should have put me on Valium. I'm so scawed.” And the dentist goes like, “No, it's fine.” And then, at the background, I guess something's happening or other. I don't know. But like, there's a lady who's speaking in the news.

C: Ashley Frank.

G: Later on, it is actually hilarious that they were like, "You know what the modern-day version of speaking at the town square is? Being a newscaster!" [C laughs] And then they chose one person to inspect in the whole entire newscasting team, and they were right! Like, slay!

C: I mean, her last name is Frank.

G: Oh, that's true!

C: But it was still a logical leap. It was a huge logical leap, I think. [laughs]

G: Yeah. Anyway, the patient goes like, “I gotta be honest, Paul. I don't really want to be here.” And then after this, he is compelled to be honest. And how he's honest is he tells this dentist that he's not attracted to his wife anymore and he's disgusted by her sagging skin or something. But what he's really attracted to is this dentist's kid. And he admits to raping her in her sleep.

C: Yeah. She came over for a sleepover with his daughter, and yeah.

G: Yeah, and the dentist drills a hole into the back of his skull.

C: Yeah. Kills that guy. Deserved.

G: Kills that guy. Yeah.

G: Later on, we find out that this dentist killed himself after.

C: Yeah, but not before telling his assistant everything that the guy he killed confessed to, because Sam somehow gets the information from her, even though she was out of the room.

G: Well, maybe there's like a-

C: Security footage?

G: Yeah.

C: In a dentist's office? That feels kind of HIPAA violation-y [G: That's true.] within the actual dentist operating room.

-

G: We go back to Dean, who is trying to call Bobby again, and yeah, Bobby's like, "Look. Dean. You may think that Sam is a monster. But have you considered that maybe he's just Sam?" [both laugh]

C: He's just like that now.

G: Yeah, he's changed, Dean. Grow up! [laughs] That's what Bobby said. And Dean is basically like, “No, Bobby. That's impossible! I'll give you a day, and I'll do my own research, and I'll kill this, whoever this is!” [C laughs] Yeah.

C: Yeah, I don't know why- I mean, I know why he doesn't wanna think it's just Sam. But like, literally, the main thing that you hunt are demons. Demons are humans who went to Hell and then got a bit fucked up about it. [G: Literally.] Like, it's fully, fully possible.

G: No, but Sam doesn't react to holy water.

C: Yeah, but I'm just saying, there's gotta be a midway point between human and demon where you're a little bit fucked up.

G: I am curious. I am also curious. If Sam came back here and he, you know, Dean holy waters him, he goes like, "Aughh!" What are they gonna do? They're gonna kill him?

C: Well, Dean seems down to kill him right now, and he's not even reacting to holy water.

G: No, but his reaction right now is not that it's Sam turned into something else. He thinks it's a doppleganger. [C: Mm.] So I do think it's a different situation. He thinks this is someone else mimicking Sam instead of Sam having turned into- having changed into- having grown as a person! [both laugh] Yeah, I'm just curious. I mean, later on, Dean does, in fact, become a demon. [C: Yeah.] But like, it's a different situation. Again, he didn't go to Hell, get tortured, become a demon. It's a different situation. So I don't know. I don't know. It's a fun thought exercise, I would say.

C: Yeah, I think I think they would- I don't know. I think they would keep him in the panic room, at least. If Sam came back as a demon. They were already doing that when he-

G: They would try to exorcise the demon out of him or something.

C: Oh, yeah, they might.

G: I mean, they did do it to Dean. It's from the Book of the Damned. But they have to wait, because it's with Rowena. [C: Ah!] Sam will just have to walk around as a demon for a couple of seasons.

C: Well, they're not gonna let him walk around. They restrained him when he was drinking demon blood. [G: No, literally.] I don't think they'll give him his freedom as a demon.

Dean then tries to call Lisa but then gives up. The whole Dean/Lisa situation this episode and last episode, completely mind-boggling. We came into the season liking their relationship a lot. And now it's like, where did the things we like go? And why can't he just say the sentence “I was a vampire”? Whatever. Whatever. Fucking stupid.

G: Yeah, no, it is so stupid. “I can't explain.” Actually, you can! "I was a vampire."

C: Yeah, it's actually really easy! [laughs]

G: Yeah!

C: Sam comes in with news of this dentist thing, and Dean's like, “You go ahead and interview him. I'm just gonna stay back and do some research!” And Sam's suspicious about this but is like, "Okay!" Sam gets from the dental hygienist that the dentist hung himself in his cell, and yeah, his patient was confessing to some really fucked-up stuff. So yeah, murder? Pretty justified. is what Sam says. And so they realize that some kind of a truth spell is going on.

G: Did you mention the like- "not the sexy kind of drilling"? I think it's a famous joke.

C: It's a famous line, but I don't find it important to my journey. [G laughs]

G: Well, I just want to say that Sam does say, "A dentist just drilled a guy to death," and Dean goes, "Not the sexy kind of drilling?"

C: Dean, they split up. Dean goes to the dentist's office. Sam goes to the morgue. And we see that Dean has been opening an article called "doppelganger." Does Dean have his own laptop now? This is his own laptop? He's not leaving this for Sam to open up his laptop and be like, "Why were you on the page for doppelgangers?"

G: [laughing] Sam, in case you forgot, was dead, for a year. Or was gone from Dean's life for a year. So one can presume that Dean did get a laptop of his own.

C: That's fair. Well, I don't think it's fair that Sam no longer has his own car, but Dean still has his own laptop.

When he inspects the dentist's office, he sees that he recently bought a saxophone and some reeds from Harry's House of Horns, and he remembers how Jane was also affiliated with this store. She had a tuba.

G: It is awfully convenient. [G: Yeah.] What an awfully convenient thing. Because what happens is that this is like, completely unrelated, but when Dean gets there, he realizes that a horn is missing, and the horn happens to be Gabriel's Horn of Truth. But you don't need-

C: Well, it's not. It looks like it.

G: It's not? [laughs]

C: No, it's not! Cas looked everywhere in the town, and he said that it's not Gabriel's Horn of Truth.

G: I thought he was like, you know, he was mistaken or lying or something.

C: That Cas was mistaken or lying?

G: Oh yeah, because it's a god who's- [laughing]

C: Yeah! [both laugh] When did you watch this episode?

G: Literally right before. When I hopped into this call, I just finished it.

C: Nice. Okay. [both laugh]

G: Some lines were not connected, you know? In my brain. [laughing] They were very much connected in the episode, it seems like. So it's completely unrelated at all.

C: Yeah, it's a red herring.

G: Oh! How did they find out that this is what's happening? Oh! Sam looked into the room and saw a dead cat or something.

C: Yeah. He saw the ingredients used for the summoning spell and was able to do research.

G: Okay. [laughs] Slay!

C: [laughs] And this is the quality reporting you'll get from us here at Busty Asian Beauties.

-

C: In Harry's House of Horns, Dean's interviewing Harry, and he just doesn't have any information to give, but he's like, “Hey, FBI agent, why haven't you found my stolen horn yet?” And he reveals that the horn is about a thousand years old. It's a museum piece. And he shows him a photo of it, and they do not know this horn's provenance, and it got stolen around the time that Jane died.

G: We go to Dean. He's like, on his lappytoppy. Looking up, he finds Gabriel's Horn of Truth, and he goes, in a praying voice, I suppose, he goes like, “Castiel. Hello. Possible loose nuke down here. Angelic weapon, blah blah blah. Kind of your department." And then kind of out of character, you know, out of that voice he goes, “You hear that, Cas?” And then he starts standing up and moving around. And then, whoosh whoosh! angel wings! [C laughs] And Cas is there. He goes, “Hello, Dean!” And Dean looks so sad! [laughs] He looks so sad. He's mad that he has been, apparently, calling for Cas about Sam for a while now, and, you know, he's bitter that Cas only came for "this stupid horn," he calls it. And Cas goes, “You asked me to be here, and I came”! Well. Something something whatever. [both laugh] And Cas said that the reason why he didn't show up the days that in which Dean has been asking for help regarding Sam is because he has nothing to offer regarding that. [C: Yeah.] But he also says that "We know that he's not Lucifer, because if he was, we'd know." And this entire time, they do this thing where- Dean was about to pour himself a bottle of whiskey, so he's holding a glass, and Cas takes the bottle of whiskey, and then, full eye contact, full eye contact, full eye contact [both laugh] [C: Yeah?], he pours the whiskey into Dean’s cup. Fun stuff! Fun stuff.

C: Yeah, not looking down, full eye contact, like, yeah. Not blinking.

G: Dean gets a little uncomfortable.

C: And he's doing it while they're talking.

G: Yeah. Dean notices what's happening and gets a little bit uncomfortable because he like, looks down a bit like, he's like, "Uh, we're gonna have this conversation while you're pouring me a drink, looking directly into my eyes?" He looks down at the drink a little bit, but eventually just looks up, and it's kind of a weird scene. [laughs] Well, good for them. Cas is always in a  weird scene or two.

C: Yeah. They did have sex, that was what that was.

G: Was it? Good for them.

C: Good for them.

G: Dean asks like, "What's wrong with Sam?" And Cas says, “I don't know, Dean, I'm sorry.” And Dean is like, “What happened to you? You used to be human, or at least like one.” And Cas says that- well, he said, like last time, that he's at war, and so now he's an asshole with no heart of gold. [C laughs]

C: Yeah. "Certain regrettable things are now required of me."

G: And Dean brings up the Horn of Truth, and Cas is like, “Wait. You've seen it?” [both laugh] which is hilarious, because that's what he came down for. And Dean is like, "Yeah, it's like, around town or something, I think." And then the moment he says that, we hear the flutter of angel wings, and Cas is gone, and Dean’s like, "Oh, fucking hell." or something. But then Cas returns behind him. And Cas goes, “It's not the Horn of Truth." [both laugh] Apparently, it says that. I mean, he does say it, and I did hear it. I just didn't realize that that means that it's not the Horn of Truth. [C laughing] Dean asks like, "What the hell? You were gone for just two seconds. Where did you look?" And Cas, very serious face, very serious face- that's my serious Cas voice. He goes, "Everywhere."

C: "Everywhere."

G: And he says it not as a reveal. He's like, "What the fuck. Why are you asking me this? Like, everywhere!"

C: Yeah. [laughs]

G: Dean is, you know, bitter and a bit upset with him, starts turning around again, dismissing Cas. But then Cas goes, “Dean, about your brother. I don't know what's wrong with him, but I do want to help. I'll make inquiries." And like, he disappears as Dean turns back to face him and Dean takes a sip of his whiskey and goes, "Yeah, thanks." Wow.

C: Well, I think he's like- angrily. I don't think he's-

G: No no no, yeah. He doesn't say it with gratitude. He says it in kind of like a resigned like, "Yeah, you say that, sure." kind of way. Yeah. It must be weird to have a guy you keep on calling, who shows up once every couple of weeks, has really intense eye contact with you, [laughs] and then leaves! Like, it must be a hilarious thing to experience.

C: Yeah, I mean, the last time they met, Cas tortured a kid with no remorse, [G: This is so true.] which I guess is the foundation of the “What happened to you, you used to be human, or at least like one."

G: No but like, it's very obvious the complaint here. I mean, the complaint last episode, too, when Cas showed up, was like, "Sam needs you. Why aren't you here?" Yeah, so.

C: But yeah. Yeah. I guess in Season 5, every time they called Cas, he would show up, right?

G: In Season 5?

C: Yeah, just immediately Like in “My Bloody Valentine” and all that?

G: Yeah, immediately, but also, there are several times where they don't really call him specifically, but he's there anyway. And like, you know, he had nothing better to do, number one. So like- [laughing] He's unemployed.

C: Yeah, he's just bored.

G: So that's the reason why. And now he's misery-employed, so.

C: It must be weird to transition to that kind of relationship with Cas. I mean, this is the episode where Dean calls all the people in his life, and all of them help him to an extent but also reject him to an extent. So yeah, I think this is- I think it was a smart move to have a Cas scene in here to sow the seeds of like, "This isn't Lucifer. This is Sam for real," and also to just have Dean feel generally abandoned.

-

C: Sam's in the morgue, and he learns that the bodies of all the other people who killed themselves like just straight up disappeared for real.

G: Yeah. And Sam like, thinks that the coroner is fucking with him. So he goes, “Oh, so you're not gonna tell me? What about I give a little something to your supervisor?" or something.

C: "Should I have a little chat with your supervisor?" "Should I give a little something" feels different.

G: No, yeah, he's saying, "Can I talk to your manager?" is what he's saying. [C: Yes.] And the coroner is like, "Look. They're gone," [laughs] which is very fun.

C: Yeah. So Dean's in a bar, and Ashley Frank of news is on the TV. They've made this story more prominent than some of the earlier ones where she was on the background, and he's just drinking. Dean gets a call from Sam about all the bodies disappearing, but also, another body that disappeared was not ruled a suicide. It was reported as a car accident. So he's gonna go to that person's house, because she's patient zero. She died a week before the rest of them. And Dean's like, “Okay, I'll head over,” but before he does, he decides that he needs another drink because being around Sam just sucks so bad.

G: I mean, it does suck. I've said this last episode. It is a horrific situation. [C: I agree.] We go like, "Sam's so funny!" because he is. It is a funny thing to see Jared Padalecki act like this, but it is like a horrific situation.

C: And Dean tells the bartender, "I'd just like the freaking truth." And then the bartender acquiesces. She goes, "Sometimes I think I can't get pregnant because God knows my marriage is a sham." Honestly, a real slay secret. [G: Yeah.] A real fun one, I think.

G: Literally. And then she goes, "Why did I say that?" which none of the patrons at Biggerson's said earlier. I just wish that there was more consistency in how this worked between the cold open and now.

G: Yeah. Only Bobby and her kind of have that reaction.

C: Lisa also has the "That came out way harsher than I intended."

G: Yeah, she does, yeah.

C: And she goes, "I mean, I've been snorting oxy all day. Why did I say that?" And Dean's like, "Oh, okay. It's time for me to have been truth spelled." Dean starts heading out, and they don't like women very much this episode, I would say.

G: Yeah. It's just an odd thing to do, this scene that you're about to mention, just because it's like a very serious time already. We're in the episode. [C: Yeah.] We're having a serious time. And even the beginning of this episode was a serious time. We start with Dean being like, “I think Sam wants to kill me or something.” It's serious shit. And then they have this little, I suppose, comedic relief in the middle that is like so disjointed from the rest of the episode. After this scene, Dean goes out and calls Bobby to be like, “Okay, Bobby, I'm just testing if this works, because now I'm gonna ask Sam what he is and why he let me be turned into a vampire."

C: Bobby's like, "I do some things that are feminine," and Dean goes, “That's disgusting. Bye!”

G: Literally, what was that? Okay, anyway, let's talk about this later.

C: Well, so yeah. There's a woman wearing a low-cut top, and she says, “I'm sitting like this so you'll look at my breasts. I just bought them. I need a lot of attention.”

G: I mean they look great, so.

C: Yeah, good for her.

G: Dean does do a double-take.

C: Dean starts heading out, and then he just [both] comes back? And he just leans his head into frame and sort of smirks, staring at her boobs.

G: Yeah, and nods up and down to show his approval. [laughs] Like-

C: Yeah. [laughs] I mean, I guess she explicitly said that she wanted him to do that, so. [laughs] Thank you for your public service.

G: Looking at the woman's breast and nodding my head vigorously to show that I wuv it. [both laughing] Yeah, like-

C: Yeah. And then he calls Bobby to test out sort of the range of this truth spell. [G: Yeah.] And Bobby's like, “I don't really have anything to tell you. I'm just here hitting the books, drinking a nice glass of milk, and watching Tori & Dean.” And apparently, that's a reality show with Tori Spelling and her husband, and I don't know anything about Tori Spelling, but yeah, Bobby says he's a huge fan of her, and that she's a real talent, and apparently, this is embarrassing enough that Dean thinks the truth spell's happening. Yeah, somebody who knows about Tori Spelling, let us know why this is supposedly embarrassing. And then Bobby goes, "You know what else? I get a pedicure once in a while." So everyone's confessing their deepest, darkest secrets, and Bobby who killed his wife, [both laugh] like, this is what it is?

G: And he killed the daughter of his best friend/lover. Like, there are many avenues to tackle first, I think!

C: Yeah, but Bobby's also been the one who's like like, the hardest on the "We're just talking about our feelings like girls." I feel like- or no, Dean said that. But I feel like Bobby brings it out of Dean?

G: Bobby did also say like, "Oh, are we gonna keep talking like this? Or are we gonna go grow lady parts." So he historically uses this kind of wordings.

C: Yeah. So what I'm saying is, it's possible that him getting a pedicure is actually a deeper shame for him than killing the daughter of his best friend/lover. [laughs] I'm not sure exactly- is something being implied here? When he says that he gets a pedicure at a Vietnamese place, and that one of the employees there gives a really good foot massage, and Dean says that he's scarred for life now. Does this imply-

G: No, I think something's just wrong with Dean.

C: Okay, 'cause I was like, is it also a sex work massage parlor?

G: No, I don't think at all. It's just, Dean thinks automatically- he heard, like, "Vietnamese joint," [laughs] and this is where his mind went. I honestly believe that.

C: I see.

G: There's no part in what Bobby is saying that I think is sexual in nature, or like, at any point in this that Dean can now safely conclude that the endgame is sexual in nature. You know what I mean? Is he just scarred that Bobby has feet that he likes getting massages on? Is the fundamental- At some point, Bobby does remove his shoe, and I did go, "Is she gonna remove his socks?" [both laugh]

C: Is he going to show feet? What is- is his name Jim Beaver? I'm gonna look up Jim Beaver Wikifeet.

G: Okay, go for it.

C: I don't know if he's there.

G: Look at Wikifeet Men.

C: Yeah. I'm going on man.wikifeet.com. [both laugh]

G: It's man,wikifeet.com with an A?

C: He has a 4.72 out of 5, but I'm not-

G: That's pretty good, it sounds like. Many good things.

C: But there's no photos in his gallery.

G: Oh, yeah.

C: So I don't know what people are rating this based off.

G: He was just invested and wanted to put it in there, yeah. It's just personal analysis of his foot aesthetic is what this score is about.

C: Alright, yeah.

G: Jim Beaver, have some confidence. Give yourself a 5.

C: Well, there's four people who rated a 5, one person who rated a 4, one person who rated a 1.

G: Oh! Where the fuck are these people finding foot pics of Jim Beaver?

C: I don't know. They might just be people who like him as an actor and want to gas him up or gas him down?

G: Yeah, this is true.

C: So Bobby goes, "I never told anyone that. Why am I telling you?" Bobby, you could live a much happier life if this wasn't your deepest, darkest secret.

G: No, literally.

C: Yeah, and he goes, "Well, maybe because you're my favorite. Although Sam's a better hunter, lately, anyway."

G: Which implies that Dean is his favorite because Dean was a better hunter, which is also hilarious. [laughs]

C: I don't know if it implies that.

G: No, I think it implies that. Because he says, "You're my favorite, but-"

C: Yeah, I think it factors in.

G: "- but Sam is a better hunter these days." Meaning that Sam's standing a chance. Soulled Sam, he's like, "Who give a shit?" Soulless Sam? Love that! is Bobby's perspective.

G: Sam can be like his son, but only if he doesn't have a soul.

C: So true. And yeah, Dean says that he's cursed, but hey! Maybe he can use this to his advantage. And he's gonna hang up. And then Bobby says, "Did you know my first girlfriend turned out to be a-" and then Dean hangs up.

G: Yeah.

C: What was that supposed to- What was that? What was the joke supposed to be?

G: I mean, I don't know. Personally, I would like to believe it's "lesbian." [laughs]

C: Why is Dean scarred about it?

G: No, I don't know. Something's wrong with Dean Winchester is the only thing we can conclude from this conversation. He also goes like, "No! No! Hm-hm-" what do you mean, "No"? The way he says it is like, "Nope, I'm not gonna get into that because that's gonna scar me for life as well," just like the first thing that Bobby said about his pedicure, and it's like, I don't think it will. I don't think it will. Have you considered that it won't be?

C: Mm. I guess I assumed if it was something, it was a transmisogynistic joke.

G: I do think we're supposed to think of this joke as like, he's supposed to say something transmisogynistic.

C: Yeah. [G: Yeah.] Well, great. Good job, writers.

Dean calls Sam, leaves him a voice message, saying, "There's a few things I wanna ask you."

-

C: Oh, okay, it's- The roommate is who the person Sam's interviewing, according to the transcript.

G: Sam interviews this girl.

C: Probably college, then, because she mentions her roommate being in school. I thought she was a high schooler.

G: Wait. So she killed her own cat?

C: Yeah.

G: Crazy! What a situation to be in.

C: I feel like, if you need a cat skull to figure out if your boyfriend's cheating on you, you can just find another cat!

G: Well, you can probably go to those antique shops that are like, "We're so weird and eccentric" kind of antique shops. Also, you can probably find it. I bet if we look it up on Etsy right now we can find one. It's probably illegal, like, I don't think they allow it, but like, we can probably find one.

C: I mean, we can check.

G: I mean, I don't know.

C: Etsy.com. Is it illegal?

G: I think there's like a thing about Etsy where you can't transport animal remains or something.

C: Well, I'm seeing a lot of bobcat skulls, "real taxidermy skull."

G: Oh, well, yeah, maybe you can do anything that you want forever on Etsy.com/skulls.

C: Yeah. [laughs]

G: The girl is convinced that her boyfriend is cheating on her, and she was completely obsessed with finding out the truth. And Sam goes to check her room. Meanwhile, we get a Dean/Lisa conversation instigated by Lisa. So Lisa calls Dean, and Dean's like, "Oh, shit," because obviously, bad time. Lisa says that, you know, "Ben won't even talk about it." Dean is like, "Oh, sorry. I know I've been calling you for days and days on end, asking you to talk to me, [C laughs] but I just can't talk right now! Can we do this next time?" And Lisa says that, "You shoved my kid, so like, let's do this now." And Dean goes, "It wasn't like that." [C screams] And Lisa asks, “How was it like?” And Dean just goes, "Uhh, I don't know!" [laughing]

C: Like, hello? What the fuck! What do you mean? What do you mean?? What do you mean you can't explain.

G: Hilarious.

C: Do we need to unpack this? I don't understand it!

G: No, I think we've already impacted enough last episode where it's like, there is no reasonable reason for Dean to hide this from Lisa. Lisa knows that he's a hunter and is currently hunting, and Lisa seems to be aware of his past exploits, and so is aware of what he has to do and aware of the things and dangers that come to him. Given all that, and given that she knows exactly what he's doing, which is hunting, she would understand fully what that would entail. And so there's no reason to hide this. Absolutely none at all.

C: I think if I'm gonna justify it, I think it's the fact that he feels that putting her and Ben in danger by going to their house as a vampire was such a stupid move, which it is, that it would actually come off as worse than him just showing up and shoving them for no reason. [laughs]

G: That's probably- Is that true? You think that's the case? It's an explanation.

C: I don't know. Yeah. That's one explanation. I think it's possible, but I don't- I feel like that comes from a place of Dean being untruthful in order to be able to stay in the relationship, which I don't really feel like is his modus operandi, so.

G: Yeah, like, the relationship is already falling apart, so might as well just come clean. Obviously, the hiding what it is is not working, so maybe telling what it is might work, you know? [laughs]

C: Yeah. Ay-ay-ay.

G: Lisa then says that, you know, she goes, "You want to know the truth? You got so much buried in there, and you push it down."

C: Fucking stupid.

G: "And also, do you honestly think that you can go through life like that and not freak out? Just drink half a fifth at night, and you're good?"

C: I wish she had some things to say about herself. [laughs]

G: I mean, she said that she didn't expect Sam to come back when she signed up for this.

C: That's, yeah. It's something.

G: And she says that the moment Sam showed up again, she knew what was up, and that they have an unhealthy, tangled-up, crazy thing. "As long as he's in your life, you're never gonna be happy." [C: Slay.] I do think barring the contents of what she's saying, it does piss me off that like, Lisa's final- not final goodbye. We see her again. Then we never see her again. But this big breakup speech is one, as you said, very much just about Dean, and also, it's like, "Oh, we're going to fit perfectly into the themes and motifs of the episode." [C laughing] Like, you can't even give her the dignity of giving her own thing? I don't know. Something.

C: Literally anything. Her thing so far has been that she wants Dean in her life because she wants a co-parent. That's not gonna come up at all?

G: The fact that she brings up Ben once, like, "Ben won't even talk about it." And then that's it? I don't know. I thought that was the problem.

C: Yeah. And like, I know that during her time with Dean, she would have learned more about his relationship with Sam, probably, but I don't know. It just doesn't feel right to me that that's her main thing about him is that he has a toxic relationship with his brother. [G: Yeah.] Earlier, when she told him to go out and go hunting, she was just like, "You know, you're not a construction worker. I feel like hunting is like just something that's important to you that you should do." She doesn't bring up Sam at all during that time. I feel like if this is gonna be a major issue she had, it should have been consistent. At least we get a tiny bit of information about her, which is that she has a sister. [laughs]

G: Yeah, because she says that “Oh, I'm so sorry. I didn't mean it to come out that badly. I'm not saying 'Don't be close to Sam.' I'm close to my sister.” And then she goes, "But if she got killed, I wouldn't bring her back from the dead!" I feel like that's a you problem, Lisa.

C: Yeah, honestly, I feel like that's a you problem, Lisa. [laughs] If you know that you're in a world where you can.

G: Yeah, you wouldn't at least give it a shot?

C: But yeah, I mean, maybe one still wouldn't, and both of us are the weird ones. [both laugh] Maybe we've been poisoned by the CW's Supernatural.

G: Yeah, there is a very high chance that this is the case [laughs] in many aspects of life, even!

C: Yeah. I don't know. Literally, if somebody that I barely knew died, and I knew I was in a world where you could bring people back from the dead, I'd also be like, "Wouldn't you give it a chance?"

G: Yeah, perhaps.

C: But yeah. I don't know. Is bringing- trying to bring- Dean didn't even do it successfully. Is she talking about Season 2?

G: Yeah, probably. And it did jolt me a bit because I was like, "Oh, he told her about the demon deal! That's something to do, I guess."

C: Yeah, I mean, I think we've established that he sort of has told Lisa most things, and also Ben a good amount of things, which also makes it so much weirder now that he's in the “No, I'm not gonna tell you anything to protect you” mode [G: Yeah.] if she knows so much about his past.

G: It feels so uncoordinated. The beginning of the season, like the first two episodes and this one, because those- the relationship meant something, you know? The whole point that they were trying to achieve was that you can't have one and the other both at the same- Like, the point they were trying to make was that Sam was saying, “You can't have both, Dean.” And Dean's going, “Well, I'm going to try. Let's give it a try.” That's the thesis of the first few episodes. And it's just fascinating that the way they approach it was that Dean does have both, because he is aware, and he is a hunter still, but he also has a family who knows what's up. And the only way they can justify the perspective of “I'm poison, and everybody around me will die if they get too close” or whatever is by erasing fully that aspect of the relationship, the very thing that made it worth exploring in the first place. So yeah, what a great loss. What a great loss! Because it is an interesting idea. And it's such a bummer that they were like, “Oh, we have an interesting idea, but it's not easy to address! It's not easy to analyze and respond to! So let's just break it down to its most basic, most like, nothing- Let's turn it into nothing so that we can explain it away.” [C: Mm.] So like, okay, slay.

Dean says that like, "Okay, well, me and Sam, we do have issues. But you and Ben..." and for a second I was like, "Wait." [both laughing]

C: "- also have issues."

G: Is he gonna accuse Lisa of being of having issues because Dean shoved his kid into a wall? But no. He was gonna say that like, "You guys are important to me!" And Lisa goes, "No. Me and Ben can't be in this with you. I'm sorry." And then she hangs up.

C: Yup.

-

C: So Sam, searching Corey's bedroom, finds a box under the bed with a cat skull. Her cat, Mittens, who her roommate thought ran away. And Sam's heading down to meet Dean, ready to do some research. And Dean's like, “Um, well, first, there's a few things I want to ask you, and you're gonna tell me the truth.” And Sam’s like, “Oh, shit, you're cursed? Okay, ask away!” And Dean goes, “When that vamp attacked me, why did you just stand there?” And Sam hesitates, and then he goes, "I didn't!"

G: Love that.

C: Yeah. He says that he froze out of shock.

G: He's really putting on the face, too. In this scene, he's really putting on the "I'm a little puppy who's so sad and so little and such a little puppy!" face.

C: Yeah. [laughs] Yeah. He goes. “Yeah, it was just shock, and it was too late. I feel terrible about it! Like, Dean, I can't lie here. Do you really think I would let something like that happen on purpose? You're my brother!” which is also what he told Samuel last episode.

G: So true.

C: He goes, "How could you even think something??"

G: "Maybe you're the one who's evil because you think I'm so evil!" [C laughs]

C: Yeah, incredibly funny.

G: How dare you think I'm evil when I'm evil? [laughs] So true.

C: Yeah. Dean processes this, and I don't know. He feels a little bit guilty about thinking that of Sam, but also still unsettled as fuck because then what was all of that? And he just goes like, "Oh, okay. Sorry. I thought I saw something. I guess I was wrong. It's just been a bad day." [G: Aw.] And Sam's like, "It's okay. I got your back! I always have!"

G: Yeah, and he's still doing the face, but then, he turns around to go down the stairs or something-

C: And he goes sicko mode immediately.

G: He goes sicko face. [both laugh]

C: What a slay.

G: Yeah, and he is doing it in a cunty slaying way.

C: Yeah. No, this is a terrible situation to be in if you're Dean, but if you're Sam, you're the greatest comedian of all time!

G: Yeah. And it did break my heart a little bit how easy Dean was like, “Okay, I believe it.” You know, we spent the entire episode with him going, "Something's so wrong with Sam! This is not even my brother! It's not even my brother!" And then you see here, literally just one instance of Sam going, “Oh, no, Dean. I'm being for real," and how quickly he... acquiesces. [laughs] [C: Mm-hm.] And you know, how quickly- There is a thing where he thinks that Sam can't lie to him. But if he does actually believe that this is a creature, not the person, he can go like, "Oh, but that's because this is a creature and not a person." and it really does show you how much Dean is willing to believe. If he wanted to doubt this, he could have. He could have doubted it. But what he wanted the most is to hear Sam go, "No, Dean. I would never do that to you." And I don't know. It makes me sad to think about.

C: I mean, 'cause the whole Lisa thing just happened, and Bobby was also like, "Are you sure you saw you saw?" So yeah, I think he has good reason to want to hang on to what he thinks might be left of his support system.

G: Yeah. And also, Lisa explicitly said that like, "I'm leaving because of Sam." I mean, not explicitly, I guess, but pretty much explicitly. [C: Yeah.] It's the underlying current of the conversation. And so- and I think this is what informs his actions later. Like to think that "Oh, I just lost this relationship because of this." And if it's also bad, it's too much to bear. And so it's easier to just believe that "No, it was just an honest mistake, and nobody had bad intentions, and we all love each other, and we're brothers," you know?

-

C: Yeah, so Sam does research using the various ingredients found in the box and finds that it is a summoning spell for Veritas, Goddess of Truth. So anyone in the town who asks aloud for the truth invokes her, and then she just gives you the truth until you kill yourself, and then you become a tribute to her, and she eats your body.

G: Quite fun!

C: Other lore, she doesn't like dogs. Her thing is coming down to the mountain to speak truth to the masses so that she could be worshipped. Dean calls her an attention whore. That seems unnecessary. And then they go, "And what's the 21st century version of speaking truth to the masses?" And they somehow make the giant logical leap that it's a fucking news anchor.

G: I did think for a bit like, "Oh, are they going to do a vlog? Like a vlogger?" But I was like, it's a bit too early, I think. I wasn't sure. And then it's a news anchor, and I did find it hilarious because the way they worded it is "the 21st century." I'm pretty sure newscasters were also in the 20th century. [laughs] I'm pretty sure they were actually more prominent at that time. But that's okay. Sure, why not?

C: Yeah. And also, when Dean said his insult about Veritas, I was like, "No. It's not the woman in the bar, right?"

G: Noo.

C: The breast implants one? Because she says, "I need a lot of attention." I was like, "Wait, what?" But luckily, that was not the case, because I don't think I would have been able to watch that.

So they, I guess, sneak into where her talk show, Frank Talk, is, and then they get a lot of footage, and they zoom through it.

G: They look for evidence. I do think this is a wonderful scene to foreshadow that Sam doesn't sleep.

C: Yeah, that soulless people don't sleep.

G: Yeah, 'cause he is buzzing around the room. Some parts are in fast forward, you know what I mean. They're showing the motion across the room. And Dean is buzzing around, eating here, eating there, lying down there.

C: Yeah, sleeping. Sam’s just sitting there.

G: Sam's completely unmoving, even. Not even fiddling as he sits. Just sitting completely still. Very fun.

C: Yeah. And they find a clip where a dog is behind her and barks, and then her eyes start glowing. [laughs] So true.

G: So true. Also, does your muscles not fatigue when you're soulless?

C: Well, that's why he was doing all those chin-ups is his bad posture.

G: Yeah, I suppose.

C: He needed to warm those muscles up. So they follow Ashley Frank to her home, which is very beautiful, very fancy.

G: Really gorgeous. Yeah.

C: Yes, it's really nice. Also, I think she has a scarf wrapped around her face stylishly.

G: No, I loved it.

C: Love it.

G: She had a hair scarf, and her car is the one with like, open head. What's that?

C: Yeah, it's a red convertible.

G: Yes, it's a convertible. And I did find it so amusing because, like, you know how in Thelma and Louise, they're also wearing hair scarves, and I always thought that was just a fashion of the time. They were also in a convertible. And literally, watching this, I realized for the first time that the point of that is to keep their hair out of the wind. Isn't that so fun?

C: Ohh. [laughs] Yeah.

G: She removes it immediately after she gets out. So it's like, “Oh, it's like a helmet for the car, but like for your hair.” Very fun.

C: Yeah, that's fun.

So they go inside, and apparently, the way to kill her is to stab her with a knife dipped in dog's blood.

G: Yeah. And Sam has acquired some dog blood.

C: Somehow!

G: Dean asks like, "Where did you get that? And do I want to know?" And Sam goes, "Probably not." [laughs]

C: Brother mad at him for hanging out with a dog. [G: Literally.] Brother not mad at him for killing a dog.

G: Literally.

C: Yeah, they go in. Nicest house in the world. So beautiful. And then there's a shrine to Veritas in it. Then they go into another room, which has the corpses of all the people who killed themselves. And also, this house is full of cats. They're so cute, they're so fluffy, and one of them is looking at the corpse. Adorbs!

G: Yeah! And also, this looks like very Hannibal-ish, like that TV show Hannibal, which I did find very fun. Yeah, it's pretty cool and later on, she cuts a tongue out of a person, but she does it in a way that looks very surgical, in comparison to how other scenes in Supernatural that feature cannibalism would have been, which I did think was incredibly fun.

C: So she's here, and somehow she's changed into some fucking goddess costume.

G: Yeah, it's a gold dress. I mean, it's not a black, evil woman dress.

C: Yeah, yeah. That's new. She knocks them out and ties them up, and she takes their dog blood knives and puts them away in a drawer. And yeah, she cuts the tongue out of the dentist surgically and eats it. And this is the part of every Supernatural episode when the Winchesters are tied up, and then the villain's like, “Oh, let me monologue a bit about human nature, and also about how you two are the sickest, most twisted people I've ever seen.”

G: Yeah. I'm pretty sure she's seen more twisted people, if we're being honest.

C: Yeah, like, literally, yeah. There was that guy who raped a child in her sleep earlier this episode. Do you remember that, Veritas?

Well, anyway, so she's like, “I love tasting the tongue because it's where the lies are. And you guys lie so much, and when you base your life on lies, the truth comes along and destroys it!” She should have told him to fucking call Lisa and tell her about the fucking vampire thing.

G: Literally.

C: Oh, well. Meanwhile, Sam has a knife in his back pocket that he is surreptitiously using to cut through his ropes. And Veritas says, “Dean. You have to tell the truth. How do you feel about your brother?” And Dean says, “Better now. As of yesterday. I wanted to kill him in his sleep.” And Sam's shocked! And Dean goes. “I thought he was a monster, but now I think... he's just acting like me!" [both laugh] Literally, what does that mean? He's not acting like you, Dean.

G: Well, he says later, "I mean, I'm not a father. I'm a killer!" [both laughing] Most absurd series of words ever.

C: Absolutely hilarious. Yeah. He says that, and that there's no way to change that. And he's so swad. Veritas goes up to Sam and is like, “And how do you feel about getting back hunting with Dean? Huh?" And Sam's pretending that he's struggling, and then he says his fake truth, [laughing] which is such a Hallmark card statement, which I love.

G: No, literally.

C: He goes, "What we do... is hard. But we watch out for each other, and that's what's important." [G screams] Like, why is Sam trying to win the Miss America pageant? Like, hello?

G: But why is this literally every end of episode of Supernatural [C laughing] for like, [C: Season 5?] eight episodes straight in Season 5?

C: So funny. And Veritas goes. “What? What the fuck? How are you doing that?” And she starts freaking out for real because Sam's lying, and she goes, “What are you?” and she goes to Dean, “What is he?” And I feel like that was a fun way to continue ramping up the fear about soulless Sam. And she says, “You're not human.” And Dean goes, "Hwhat?"

G: "Hwhat??" So true.

C: Yeah. But before anything else really happens, Sam escapes the ropes. He tosses the knife to Dean, so he does help Dean free himself, and then the two of them stab Veritas with those dog knives, and then she dies. And Sam's like, “Okay, great. Good job, folks!” But Dean's pointing the knife at him.

-

G: Dean starts not really lunging at Sam, but more menacingly walking towards him. Cornering him is what he's doing. And Sam is saying like, “No, Dean. It really is me. It really is me.” But Dean is saying like, “No, you're not. You're not my brother. What are you?” And Sam goes like, “Okay, so here's the truth. I am me. And it's just that there's something wrong with me, and I've known it for a while.” He's gay! "I lied to you." He's gay! [both laugh] No, he's not gay. [laughing] He's a really terrible person right now. And he goes, "I let you get turned by that vamp."

C: He can be gay too.

G: I mean, yeah. You know, let's be inclusive. Diversity win. This gay man is so horrible. [C laughs] "I let you get turned by the vampire." And he said his reasoning, which is that he knew there was a cure, and that "we needed an in the nest, and I knew you could handle it." And Dean says like, "I could have died. I could have killed Ben." He could also have killed Lisa.

C: I will say, I think the killing Ben is on Dean. Yeah. First, you could have killed Lisa. Second, you chose to go there while you were a vampire. [G laughs]

G: And Sam says, "That should have stopped me cold. But it just didn't. I just don't feel it anymore." And he says that ever since he came back, he was a better hunter because he's not scared anymore, and he can't feel- like, he can't access those feelings anymore. "I don't know what's wrong with me. I think I need help." And he is doing a sad little face. [C: Yeah.] And Dean is just listening to this. He puts the knife down, and he turns around, and like, laments a bit. And then he turns back around and starts punching Sam repeatedly-

C: Thirteen times.

G: - until Sam is unconscious on the floor with like, a broken nose or something. It's a pretty brutal scene.

C: Supernatural really varies on how many times you can punch someone in the face before you kill them. [G: Yeah.] 'Cause whenever they have fights, people are trying to kill them, and they punch them- they punch the Winchesters in the face less than this, but it's like, "Wow! They're almost dead." But Dean's intention wasn't to kill, I suppose.

G: I don't know. I think I mentioned it earlier that this scene is about what Dean has lost, and he is putting that blame onto like Sam. “I can't believe I left my family for you” kind of deal. I don't know. He also is the one who chose not to tell Lisa anything. [both laugh] I mean, yeah. It is- I don't know. I wonder if he thinks this is quid pro quo? Because Sam did let him be turned into a monster, [C: Yeah.] and even if that is not like a direct thing that Sam did, it kind of is.

C: It is.

G: It is. And so I don't know. Again, I don't think, really, that the episode did a really good job of showing the negative effects of being a vampire to Dean-wise. It showed very well, as I've said, the horror of knowing that Sam let that happen. But I don't think the episode really got to convey that well, the feeling of like Dean being a vampire, and how that's bad and wrong because the episode goes in expecting you, the audience, to think that it's just automatically bad, you know. And so they don't really linger a lot on exploring that. Do you get what I mean? Am I making sense?

C: I think so.

G: Yeah, anyway, so, I don't really know what to say in this part other than "Let's see how it pans out," I guess.

C: Yeah, I don't really have thoughts on this until next episode.

G: And then, I don't know, like, it's still Sam's body. Is he gonna be like- What's the situation?He's gonna have a broken nose? Or, you know what I mean, right? What's the deal?

C: I don't know.

G: I don't know.

C: We'll find out.

G: We'll find out.

-

G: Well, what do you think about this episode?

C: I like the soulless Sam plot, and I think they did a good job with continuing it this episode. [G: Yeah.] The rest of it, whatevs.

G: Yeah, I do like the Dean and Sam plot. The Dean and Lisa plot leaves much to be desired for me, personally. [C: Yeah.] Well, Best Line/Worst Line?

C: The worst line is, of course, “I can't explain it.”

G: No, yeah, that is a pretty bad line. I do think the Bobby's speech. Every time Dean reacted to anything, I was like, "Dude. Shut the fuck up." Not Bobby's speech, but Dean's response to it. And also just the general way it's written as if we, the audience, are supposed to be completely on Dean’s side of like, "Ew, yeah, Bobby. Eugh!" I personally don't feel that "eugh" about it, and I personally would have liked to see Bobby's feet! So yeah. [C laughs]

C: Yeah, well, you and four people.

G: Yeah. I mean, one of them gave it a 1 over 5, so.

C: No, it was rated by 6 people. There were four 5s, one 4, and one 1.

G: Ah, okay. Worst line. No, that was my worst line. [both] Best line. I suppose I like when Sam was like, "Sucks." [both laugh] No, Sam is hilarious. I'm so sorry!

C: He's pretty funny.

G: I do like when he's like, "Dean. How can you think I'd do that to you? You're my brother!" Or when he was like, "It's tough, the life we live. But at the end of the day, we have each other's backs." [both laughing] And then the camera pans to Dean. It's hilarious.

C: Pretty good.

G: It's like it's a really touching moment. It's so fucking funny! Yeah, what's your best line?

C: I don't know. I think the whole Bobby being like, “Or the worst case scenario is that it's just Sam in there,” is pretty good setup for the rest of the distrust in the episode.

Writer sins. Spread those sheets.

G: Spread those sheets! Well, this is an even episode, so- No, spreadsheets first.

C: No, it's not.

G: It is an even episode! What are you talking about?

C: No, I know, but we're not doing the IMDb guess first. We're doing the spreadsheet first.

G: Yeah. So spreadsheet, misogyny, I do think there is. [C: Yeah.] Do you think we count the treatment of Lisa, or we can extend that to-

C: What would the points be if we did, and what would the points be if we didn't?

G: Yeah, I don't really know. So I suppose we shouldn't. Is that the correct response? I don't know.

C: Or no, it's like- I feel like the Lisa stuff- I feel like the vibe of this episode is a 2 to me, and that vibe is mostly through like, the random stuff, but like I feel like some of the Lisa vibe sneaks into the 2 rating in my head. But like, what's the number in your head?

G: I would say I was actually thinking 1 without the Lisa stuff. With the Lisa stuff, I'm not sure. I think maybe let's address the Lisa stuff in a future episode. Although you know what? I want to address this here, because the way they do handle her, and the way they change her- And I think maybe part of it, we can say that like, she's talking about truth of the matter. She wouldn't say this. Maybe she would bring up more personal things if she was, you know, saying things out of her own volition, but because she is being mind-controlled by a truth god that's purpose is to make you kill yourself, it's purposefully a bad way to do it. And I suppose if you really want to hit Dean where it hurts, you'd go, "Yeah, your brother and you are so fucked up, and you don't even love each other." Like, yeah. So I don't know. I still think in terms of narrative, the fact that we, as an audience are supposed to conclude- I'm playing 5D misogyny chess [both laughing] with regards to Supernatural. Yeah.

C: So what's the points? [laughs]

G: I don't know. I would say 2. [laughs]

C: Yeah, sounds good.

G: Okay, racism?

C: Racism? Eh.

G: Yeah. Homophobia-

C: Racism- wait, I think we should increase the misogyny because of the Bobby phone call.

G: Yeah, yeah, no.

C: Or does that just go into homophobia?

G: I think that goes in homophobia.

C: 'Cause there's also transmisogyny, maybe, so that would go into misogyny, and then some of the other stuff would go into homophobia.

G: Yeah, I think we should increase the misogyny into 3. [C: Yeah.] And then we should put something in homophobia. Do we put something in racism? I do think the pedicure joke relies on a-

C: Yeah, assumptions about Asian massage parlors. Yeah.

C: Yeah, I think that's half a thing or like three-fourths of a thing. And then there's two Black characters in this episode, the manager and the bartender. I think that one-off characters don't need to be morally upstanding and perfect if they’re Black, I don't think that's required, but I think because Supernatural has a history of just not having any positive black characters besides Henriksen, who they then kill so horribly, [both laugh] and Rufus, who we love, but they're gonna kill him, too-

G: Yeah, I don't know.

C: - it is something that I'm more sensitive about. So I think those add together to be a point.

G: To a 1, okay.

C: And then maybe just a little 1 in homophobia, or is the Bobby stuff-

G: Yeah, I think.

C: Yeah.

G: Yeah, IMDb, I am the first to go. Well, I would say this one... People liked last episode, and this one is like, part two of it. I would say last episode was better in terms of the Sam and Dean, and I really just do like the directing of that episode. I think it's good to look at. But also, allegedly, I don't look at the episode, so maybe I'm not the best judge. [both laugh] I would say maybe this one is an 8.1.

C: Okay. I'll go higher to 8.2, and I'm gonna regret it because I've lost every time.

G: Okay, I'm Hedge, I'm Bet, we are the hedging your bets brothers. Let's see. Oh, it's an 8.4. You got it!

C: Oh my god! Excellent.

G: It's a point something higher than last episode. That's probably find.

C: The picture for this episode in IMDb looks so silly. It looks like a behind the scenes photo.

G: That is- it's called a still or something.

C: Oh, okay, it is? It just looks like Jared Padalecki is helping her adjust the strap on her dress.

G: It looks like Jared Padalecki is trying to cut a piece of a very realistic-looking cake.

C: [laughs] No, for real.

G: Okay, what do people like about things?

G: I think this one addresses that the episode does end with you going, "Wait. Does Sam really think he needs help? Or is he just saying that to appease Dean again?" And yeah, that is the main feeling, I think, that I got from Sam at the end of like, "Okay, but what can you believe?" I did think about how Dean starts this episode- this season with his mind being messed with by the djinn, right? And then Sam's there, and he's like, "Wait, you're fake, too?" or whatever, and then it's not. And how disorienting it all is for him. [C: Yeah.] This part of the season really is about knocking Dean off his feet. Like, it's making him unbalanced. And yeah, I think the show does a really good job of putting us in that position.

C: This person's really annoyed that the mosaic they used is for Theodora, the consort of Emperor Justinian I, instead of a goddess. I did think that looked sort of familiar. I feel like I learned about her in history class.

[laughing] This person says, "the whole 'Sam's soul' arc didn't seem like that important of an ordeal to consume nearly an entire season"?

G: He literally lost his fucking soul.

C: He's one of the main characters! [both laughing] That's his whole soul!

G: Wait, I'm gonna open it all up, and then I'm going to look if anyone mentions Cas.

C: This one says, "For a filler episode, it's actually not that bad." I don't think it's a filler episode.

G: People are not talking about Cas.

C: He only shows up a little bit.

G: Like, they're not saying, "And Cas and Dean even had sex this episode."

C: Someone gave it a 1 out of 10 but seemed to like it.

G: Do you think people who leave IMDb reviews are more or less likely to be Destiel shippers? Probably less.

C: Less?

G: Yeah, well, maybe that is-

C: Destiel shippers are blogging.

G: Our fandom interaction with this show at this point is pretty much like, what I see on my Tumblr account, what people send us when they email us or when they message us or send us asks, and the IMDb reviews, [laughs] which is a very fascinating way to do it. But yeah.

That’s it for this episode of Busty Asian Beauties. Next week, we will be discussing Season 6, Episode 7: "Family Matters." Leave us a rating or a review wherever you get your podcasts.

C: Follow us on social media! We are on Tumblr at bustyasianbeautiespod.tumblr.com. Our official tag is #BABPod, B-A-B-POD. Thanks to everyone who's donated to our Ko-Fi at ko-fi.com/bustyasianbeautiespod, which is where our outtakes live, and check out our merch at babpod.redbubble.com.

G: You can email us any feedback, comments, or inquiries at bustyasianbeautiespod@gmail.com. See you guys next time! [both] Bye!

[guitar music]

[bustyasianbeautiespod]

Episode 109 Transcript: It’s Okay To Be Gay As Long As You’re Straight

[intro guitar music]

G: Hello, it's Grey.

C: Hello, it's Crystal.

G: And this is Busty Asian Beauties, a Supernatural commentary podcast where I, someone who has seen this show many times...

C: And I, somebody who only knows about the show through social media, discuss every single episode of Supernatural from start to finish. Also, we are both Asian.

G: Both Asian! For today's episode, we will be discussing Season 6, Episode 5: "Live Free or Twi-hard," written by Brett Matthews [C: New writer.], directed by Rod Hardy [both] new director. Yes, I think so, unless that's not true. Yeah, Rod Hardy only directed this.

C: Does he have any history with vampire media? Did they bring him on specifically for that?

G: Okay, let's actually check. Brett Matthews wrote three episodes, all in Season 6.

C: Yeah, and then he was gone forever. Thank god!

G: Unless he died.

C: Oh, well.

G: Rod Hardy [C: Also gone forever] was born in 1949. This dude's old as fuck. Is he dead? I'm so sorry if you are, bro.

C: His last work was in 2019. It's possible.

G: Yeah, okay. He had two wins and one nomination. [C: For?] He won the Grand Prize for Thirst in the Avoriaz Fantastic film festival. No, he was a nominee for the Grand Prize. Which seems vampirey.

C: Yeah, I believe it.

G: "The descendant of Elizabeth Bathory is abducted by a cult of blood-drinking, self-proclaimed supermen who want her to join them."

C: Slay? Not really.

G: That's it. [laughs] [both] For this episode-

C: - of Busty Asian Beauties. Next week, we'll be discussing something that hopefully doesn't have teenage sex slaves?

G: Yeah, well, this episode does have teenage sex slaves.

C: Lovely. Well, what did I know?

G: Okay, yeah, let's start with, what did you know about this episode?

C: That Dean gets bitten by a vampire, and then at some point, he almost bites Ben. That's about it.

G: Yeah. Did you know about the Twilight shit?

C: I mean, I knew that there would be Twilight parody content, but I didn't really know what direction it would take.

G: I'm actually quite impressed that they namedropped like, everything and everyone.

C: Kristen, Robert...

G: I remembered the Slenderman episode of Supernatural is called "Thinman," and this one is literally just, they just say "Lautner" at some point. That's fun! The rest of the episode is not particularly fun.

C: Oh, wait! "Thinman" is a Slenderman parody?

G: I think so!

C: I never put that together. There is a hashtag. That makes sense.

G: Yeah, #THINMAN. Well, yeah, I suppose we should start this damn episode. But before we do, I have a promotion to make!

C: [laughs] Yay!

G: So I have started a- No, the thing is, it is colloquially called "knitting podcast," but that does, I feel, send the wrong message when you say it like that to people who are not aware of what a knitting podcast is. But I have a YouTube channel where I talk about my knitting. If you want to listen to me- Oh, god! This is so embarrassing! [laughs]

C: No! It's good! I mean, I wouldn't know because I haven't watched any of it, [G: Literally.] but it's good! You should promote it.

G: Oh, Danica, our past guest, has watched some of it, I think, like the two episodes that are out. And she did say that they're not particularly like friendly if you don't know anything about knitting. [C: Glowing review.] She said she understood nothing from it, so like, yeah. [both laugh]

C: If you want to watch something that's not particularly friendly to people who don't understand knitting so that you won't understand any of it, go to greyknits!

G: Oh, yeah, we're gonna put the link in the description or something. It's called greyknits, I think. It is. It's called greyknits. I think it's @greyknits on YouTube. [C: Hell yeah!] Also, it's called a podcast. But like, basically, it's a vlog where I sit down and talk about what I have made the past two weeks or something. My face is gonna be on it, so I don't know, heads up. Don't click on the link if you don't want to see my face. I know I personally don't like knowing what the podcasters I listen to, what they look like. I don't like that.

C: Like, they're ugly?

G: I mean, yeah, but I'm handsome, so you don't need to worry about that. [C laughs] But also, I just personally don't like having a face associated with the voice. So if you are like that, don't click on it. Don't listen to it. I'll survive. [C laughs] But if you want to see my beautiful face, well, you will.

C: Yeah, and your beautiful knits. [G: Yeah!] The reason I haven't watched any of it is because the two videos are things that are meant for me as a surprise, so-

G: Yeah, Crystal is not allowed.

C: - I can't watch, not because I'm not interested.

G: And Crystal saw it anyway, due to-

C: Yeah, it showed up on my YouTube recommendeds, even though it has like, 3 views or something? [G laughs] How many does it have?

G: It doesn't have 3 views. You're so mean to me. It has like, 26.

C: I'm sorry! It has a million.

C: Okay, well, that's it. This is like a passion project for me. Like, I love to do it, and I love knitting. I think, as is obvious from previous times I've talked about it in this podcast, and I'm really glad to be doing it! And I wanted to do it for a long time. It's just that I didn't have a phone before. I don't have any camera to speak of, so like, I was just like, I couldn't do it. I don't even have pictures of my past knits. Isn't that so sad? [C: That is sad.] Yeah, now I have an iPhone 13, and I'm living my best life. [C: So true.] Yay! Okay, well, let's start doing the episode, I guess.

C: Okay.

-

G: We start the "Then" sequence. Vampires. We're doing vampires. We see some of Gordon. I think we start with Gordon. [C: We do.] Gordon turning, and like, I think it's because we see Dean turn and how that affects his body. It is quite frustrating that when Dean turns, it's like, they do it for like half a second, and then for the rest of the episode, they were like, "We don't give a shit about like, how Dean is tempted to feed."

C: Yeah, the sensory stuff. And also, yeah, how Dean was tempted to feed.

G: I do think it's fascinating that what they do is like, when he's "outside," quote-unquote, with like, Sam and Lisa, they really make a point to make it like, "Oh, he's like a fucking monster now" or whatever. And then he goes into the monster lair, like the place where the vampires are in, and then suddenly, he's just regular schmegular hunter with no vampire instincts whatsoever. We don't even get a point where he's like, "Ugh, they're offering me blood, and I want it so bad. But I'm going to control myself."

C: We do.

G: We don't. He just stands there, and he's like, "No, I already fed."

C: I think he has some lingering looks at the blood bag. I think that you're right that they could have played it up some more.

G: Yeah, it's just, I think, frustrating that they really toned it down for that part. And it's like, it was obvious because they're trying to differentiate Dean from the actual monsters. But it's still annoying. Annoying me. [C: Yeah.] It's just all this vampire stuff, and then we go to a bar, and it's like a place where goths are hanging out, I suppose.

C: Yeah. It's called The Black Rose.

G: Yeah. And we have, like, a bartender asking someone for their ID, and the ID that is shown is this person called Emily Fang, and it's like, obviously not her. [both] And she's Asian! [C: Yay!] Yeah, but this is just for the ID. When the ID is put down, you see that it's like a completely different girl that is showing this ID.

C: Yeah, and white.

G: Yeah. I'm not sure she's white. Is she white? Her dad is white.

C: Yeah, that's true. I guess the actress might not be white, but she looks pretty white.

G: Yeah, she looks not like the ID photo.

C: Yeah, I mean, she looks like Bella Twilight. She's wearing flannel.

G: Oh, yeah. And they do the thing where like, she's named Kristen, like Kristen Stewart. And anyway, she's looking around, and she's like, super anxious, or whatever. And then she stumbles- like she tries- She's like, "Ugh, this guy's not gonna show up." She heads out. And then she stumbles upon a guy, and we realize that this is like the guy that she was supposed to meet all along, and his name is Robert. [laughs] Corny as fuck! It's so corny. Hate them. Anyway, they're really playing up the like, "Oh, you wrote poems for me, and that really showed me who you are. I know you, Kristen." Like, it's a whole fucking thing. And then Kristen gets a paper cut, and then that sends Robert into a haze where he's like, "I can't do this. I need to be away from you!" But then he comes back, and he's like, "Wow. I can't stop myself, whatever. I want you to know who I really am." And then he lifts his gums, and we see his fang.

C: Yeah, I mean, it's also at this point where Kristen reveals that she's 17 years old. [G: Oh, yeah.] She says, you know, "I can make my own decisions. I'm 17!" Ugh.

G: They start heading out because Robert is going to show her where he's from or whatever, his place.

C: I mean, she know that he's going to turn her into a vampire, but she asks if it's going to hurt. That's the plan, where they're going.

G: So they start heading out, and I do think it is a fun directorial choice to have it that the bar is like this, intense, whatever situation, and then they head out, and it's literally just a street in a Supernatural episode. [laughs] And yeah, Robert- like, at some point, Kristen asked like, "Oh, is this the place? Why does it smell like piss?" And then she gets jumped by some other guy, and then we don't know what happens to her until later.

C: Yeah. The other guy's also a vampire, to be clear.

G: Yeah.

-

C: Dean's now on the phone with Lisa, and we do see a bit of her, but I guess not too much about how she's feeling.

G: Yeah. She looks good. [laughs] [C: Yes.] Love her little flannel situation. She looks great in it!

C: So Dean's about a night's drive away from her, and he's gonna wrap things up and then maybe go home. And Lisa's really happy about it. She says that she can't wait to see him, and this phone thing's getting old, be careful. And Sam comes up to Dean and is like, "Wow! Why are you so happy? Boo! And also, here's our case, which is that there have been six girls missing in seven days, and they're all about the same age." And he's showing Dean pictures, and pedophilia Dean is back, everybody! [G: Ugh.] 'Cause he goes, "And cute!" And Sam scoffs, and Dean says, "Ice cream comes in a lot of flavors." What does that mean?

G: I don't know. I truly have no idea.

C: Okay. 'Cause I think what Sam says later is like, "These girls are-" well, what Sam says is, "Sure. Half a dozen girls, late teens, a shower away from greatness." So is Sam's scoff just like, "They're not that hot 'cause their hair is greasy"? [laughs] And Dean's like, "It's okay to like girls with greasy hair, Sam." and neither of them are engaging with the pedophilia thing?

G: Wait! I- [laughs] I did not even realize that that's what he meant by a shower away from greatness.

C: I think it's because they're like, emo/goth girls, right? And that subculture has an idea where people's hair is greasy? So I think that's what he meant.

G: Or like, maybe, perhaps that they're wearing eyeliner.

C: Maybe? Sure.

G: I don't know. Something. I didn't really think about it. I was just like, "Ugh!"

C: I guess his soul prevents him thinking pedophilia is okay. Good to know. Sam says that a seventh girl went missing today, so they go over to Kristen's house to talk to her dad, who's a single father just like Bella from Twilight's father. He just says that he tried to be a good parent, but girls specifically are hard to raise, I guess. And they go and inspect her room, and it's like, a whole thing. Dean turns on the light, and then the camera just- I don't know. It just goes around, showing various aspects of the room where the walls are blood-red, and there's like, hot vampire posters on every single surface, and like, goth accessories, and all of that.

C: People who are comfortable being in a room that their parents can see and having people that are the objects of their affection up on the walls are so brave and not Catholic. Like, good for them! [laughs]

C: Yeah, no, truly, good for them. And good for her for having a themed bedroom in general. [G: Honestly.] I feel like every kid wants a themed bedroom.

G: You need to put an effort to paint those goddamn walls. You need to do things for that to happen.

C: Yeah, yeah, it was definitely a whole project, and I'm sure she was really happy at the end of it. And Dean goes, "Oh. This is like, horrible! I fucking hate this. This sucks!"

G: They are- the haterism is like- Where is it coming from? At some point, Dean says, "Oh, these are not vampires. These are like, heart-throb [both] douchebags" or whatever. So like, is the point that it they're romanticizing an inaccurate version of the vampire? [laughs]

C: Yeah, they're like, "They're romanticizing an evil monster that we love killing." It's like, I don't know, how in Season 1 or something, he was like, really mean to some teens who watched horror movies and were in a situation because of it or something, right?

G: That one, actually, he was like, "Didn't you watch a horror movie? [C: Oh.] If they say turn around, then turn around." So he's actually on this side of the horror movie.

C: So he's on the side of horror movies for men-

G: But not on the side of horror movies for the girlies, yeah. I mean, I don't like Twilight, so I don't really feel obliged to-

C: Yeah, defend it or its fans.

G: Yeah. But like, I do understand that the hatred in this episode, specifically, towards it, is like, rooted in misogyny, [laughs] so like, I feel a little bit uneasy about it.

C: Yeah, they're not like, "The portrayal of werewolves is racist!" Yeah. They're like, "Teenage girls having sexual desires is stupid-"

G: "Girls like it!"

C: "- and it's their fault that they're in this situation now." And like, I don't think they're like a hundred percent on the victim-blaming train or whatever, but there is like a bit of like, "And this is what happens when you romanticize monsters." [G: Yeah.] Which, yeah, seems pretty gross to me as a way to approach this storyline.

G: And I think that that kind of perspective that this episode is peddling is a lot obvious in the line earlier when the girl goes- when Kristen goes, like, "I can make my own decisions. I'm 17!" Because you're supposed to go, "Oh, she's so stupid!" in that part. [C: Right.] And like, I don't know. I don't know. Supernatural hates women. [laughs] [C: Yeah.] And they hate girls, too. Who would have thunk?

C: Yeah. 'Cause this is directly an episode about sexual predation. [G: Yeah.] And they spend, I'd say, equal amounts of time mocking the girls as they do going, "These guys are kind of mean!" So. [laughs]

G: I would say they spend more time going, "Oh, these girls are so stupid for going to these bars and being turned into vampire sex slaves at 17 years old!" than they do being like, "Oh, yeah, these vampires that are doing this are evil."

C: Yeah, I mean, Dean kills all of them indiscriminately. [G: Yeah.] Kills the girls first! [both laugh]

C: They're laid out for Sam and Samuel to find like a fucking- those boxes that you open before Christmas. [C: What are you talking about?] Advent calendars.

C: Oh, yeah. Those. Sam finds a red laptop under a pillow, and when he opens it makes a screaming noise, and a picture of a brooding vampire pops up, like, staring at them. [G: Love it.] I love it! Yeah, I love people who customize little things like that. Like, it takes work. [G: Yeah.] Later, when he gets the password in, there's a scream every time. [G: Where it's wrong, yeah.] She has to learn a good amount about like computer settings or programming to do that, and I love it.

G: Yeah. It's the same way that a lot of people, their first endeavor into coding is like, customizing their Tumblr account. [laughs]

C: Yeah, no, that was me. I had a fucking playlist that would just automatically go on whenever someone went on the blog. I think I tried to change what people's mouse cursors looked like. [G: Literally.] Annoying as fuck.

G: And that's so important.

C: Dean goes, "What's he so bummed out about?" even though that vampire is making Dean's resting face. [both laugh]

G: Literally! That's literally his face. Dean, that's your face!

C: It really, really is. Sam's testing a bunch of passwords, all of them titlecase.

G: Sam is like, "I'm gonna figure out the password of this thing," and then [laughs] he looks at the laptop, and he does his face where he's like, in deep concentration. [laughs] And then he types "Dracula," capital D, and it's wrong, [both laughing] and it's the funniest fucking thing in the world. God, love it!

C: Yeah. And also, Dracula is not a particularly sexy vampire in his portrayal, so no wonder it didn't work.

G: Sam is so far away from what the perception of vampire is by this teenage girl.

C: Dean saves a poster of a vampire watching some girls sleep, and he calls it rapey, which, yeah.

G: It's a book cover, yeah.

C: And then he starts reading a passage from the book, mocking it. So yeah, again, it's like, "It's so stupid that this girl is into this book where the guy is rapey" instead of like, "Well, this is concerning that like, this has like, made her easier to prey upon" or whatever. I don't know. It's just the direction they go.

G: "It's so stupid that she likes it!" Like, okay, Dean, you're also, number one, a creep. Like, let's be completely fucking honest.

C: Yeah. [laughs] Yeah. So Sam is failing at passwords. Dean tells him to try "Lautner" and then "Pattinson," and that last one works.

G: Sam's like, "How do you know that guy? I can't believe you know that guy, and he's a werewolf, Dean!" [C laughs] And it's like, what were you doing at the devil's sacrament? [C laughing]

C: Yeah. But also, I think this is the thing where like, if you're parodying something, don't have the actual property exist in the universe.

G: Yeah, but it's like the actual property for here. Or I mean, it's not because the book is a different name, but like, you know what I mean?

C: Yeah, but the vampire's name is Robert. Maybe the Pattinson in My Summer Blood is named George Pattinson, I guess. [laughs] We don't know.

G: Literally.

C: Sam starts looking through a forum that Kristen posts on, and her inbox has some guy who claims to be a real vampire. And he's just saying stuff about how he doesn't trust himself with her, but she should meet him at night at The Black Rose. And they just discuss like, is it just a pervert, or is it a fucking real vampire? And Sam's like, "Well, probably a real vampire. And like, these people are pretty easy prey." And yeah, so they decide to head there. Meanwhile, there's a very brief scene where a bunch of vampires in a van jump out and mug the driver of a- I don't know.

G: Blood bag?

C: Blood donation drive van, and then they take all the blood in the back. And they pan over the van in case we don't know what the fuck this van is. We do. Later, when Benny comes back from purgatory, he says that he tried just going off of blood donation bags, but then, he eventually ended up feeding on a person. In a cut scene, right? [G: Yeah.] Was he doing it like this, or did he just steal directly from the hospital or-? Well, I don't know. We'll get to it in Season 8. I just think it's fun that Supernatural was like, "We're gonna make sure they kill a guy while doing it so you really know it's bad." [laughs]

-

G: Well, Sam calls Samuel, and he's like, "Oh, Samuel, what is all this, then?" And Samuel says, "We are sure that it's vampires because the blood van and also the everything." And Sam says like, "Why are they still getting people if they're already getting the blood from the blood bank?" And Samuel just goes like, "Well, that's what you're here to figure out." Sam and Dean go to the bar, and they're sitting around watching all these people getting it on, and they kind of see that there's some people who look younger, so they're keeping their eyes on them, and then one of them is a straight couple, and they're like, "Oh, that one, that they look suspicious." And then they're like, keeping their eye on these people, and then another guy comes in and then goes up to the guy, and then he turns around and gives the guy a kiss, and Sam and Dean [C: Yay!] go, "[gasp]" I mean, they don't. They really-

C: Dean looks disgusted. [both laugh]

G: Well, homophobia win!

C: Homophobia win

G: We haven't had a homophobia point in a while, I think. [C: Yeah.] And now we do. Actually, that's a lie. We did have a homophobia point last week, and the week before, and the week before.

C: I don't think that's true. Is that true?

G: I think just last week and 6.01.

C: Maybe. I haven't tried transcribed 6.04 yet, so.

G: It's because they kept on going, "I'm baring my feelings like a girl in here!"

C: Yeah, and because Crowley was made fun of for wearing a kilt.

G: Sam and Dean are like, "Okay, well, that's not what we're looking for, I guess." How do they know that?

C: Yeah. Why can't vampires be luring men?

G: Be gay? They say it's you either be gay or a straight vampire. That's the only options.

C: I see. Well, I guess I'll never be turned, then.

G: Yeah. I mean, there is Louis de Pointe du Lac, so you never know.

C: That's true. And the two other gay- the three other gay vampires. The four other gay vampires? I don't know what's going on with Daniel yet.

G: Who are they?

C: I mean, Lestat, Armand, and Claudia! [G: Oh my god!] So there's our fourth gay vampire, and then we might have a fifth gay vampire in Daniel.

G: Anyway, so they decide to follow the two other couples that they've been eyeing instead. Sam follows his assignment, and that turned out to be like a vampire for real, and he cuts off the head. Meanwhile, the couple that Dean follows get it on on an alley, and Dean literally shoves the guy off the girl and then tells the girl to run, and then he's cornering the guy, going like, "Let me see your fangs!" and then he does, but it's fake fangs, and Dean's mad at him. And then he has glitter on his face, and Dean goes, “Ugh, you have glitter on your face!” and the guy goes, “It's just to pick up girls, man!” And Dean asks if it works, and the kid goes, “Yeah,” so.

C: Supernatural really said "It's okay to be gay as long as you're straight." [both laugh]

G: That is the Supernatural philosophy, it feels like. [C: Yeah.] Yeah. But they also said, "It's not okay to be gay, even if it's because you're straight, like if you're in love with your girl." [C laughs] So I don't know. They go back and forth.

C: Yeah, it's real confusing. I think the difference is that Dean's being gay for Lisa is out of love, and this guy's being gay for this girl is out of lust, and lust is fine, but love is ewww, disgusting! So yeah. [C: Yeah.] What a fascinating mindset to have. [C: Yeah.] Yeah, anyway, as Dean is walking, there's a voice that goes, "You're pretty." And then Dean turns around, and it's the same guy that jumped Kristen earlier.

C: Yeah, not Robert, the other vampire.

G: No, yeah, the other guy. And Dean goes like, “Oh, I don't swing that way." Or no, he says, "I don't play for your team." Straight Dean truthing! Love it. [both laugh] And the guy goes like, “Okay.” And then he starts attacking Dean, and he gets Dean pinned against a dumpster, and then he cuts open his hand and smears blood over Dean's face. But as this is happening, Sam rounds the corner.

C: Yeah. Quite before this is happening.

G: Yeah, he notices that this vampire is just about to cut open his arm. So it's not happening yet at all. He could have stopped it immediately. But he lets Dean get turned, and then he's just standing in the corner like, chest puffed out-

C: He makes a little sicko smirk.

G: Yeah, [laughs] he's doing his sicko face. And yeah. And then as he's sure that Dean is getting turned, he goes, "No!" [both laugh] and then he starts attacking the vampire. Yeah. Later on, we realize that the reason why this vampire said "You're pretty" is because he's specifically targeting attractive people so that he can send them to bars to recruit.

C: And the thing is, Dean might be into 17-year-old goth girls because he's a horrible person, but like, have you- I don't know if they'd be into him back. He doesn't have the look.

G: Yeah, I mean, specifically not with their modus operandi of “We're sending skinny boys into bars to attract teenagers."

C: Yeah, with like, dark hair. [G: Yeah.] And very, very, even paler than Dean's, skin.

G: Paler than the foccacia you made, yeah.

C: Yeah. He doesn't quite have the look, but yeah. I don't know.

G: Yeah. Like, Dean isn't Twilight handsome. [C: Mm.] He's- I don't know.

C: Supernatural handsome.

G: You know what, later on in this episode, Dean comes out of the shower or something wearing a Henley, and I was like, "That's the guy who's hot. Good for him." [silence] Sorry, is that weird?

C: I'm happy for you. [both laugh]

I've heard people liken Dean's turning to sexual assault-

G: Well, yeah.

C: Which, yeah. That is sorta the idea of the entire episode.

G: I mean, it's pretty obvious that that's the line that they're making. They literally do keep those girls in cages later, and specifically, Boris, the vampire that's like old as fuck-

C: But like, Dean's turning specifically?

G: No, but what I mean is the turning of those girls are perceived as sexual in nature, and so for Dean, I don't think it's such a far line to be like, he turned Dean also, so you can interpret that as like that also. And also, it is very much a they're pimping these people out, and so with Dean specifically, that's explicitly what they're gonna do with him. That's why they turned him.

C: Yeah, that's what they're gonna do with the teenage girls, too.

G: Yeah.

-

C: They're in a motel room, and we get a bit of Dean POV, and apparently, being a vampire, a lot of sensory overload, which we also saw with Gordon. But yeah, he can hear everything way louder. All the lights are way too bright. [G: Yeah.] Dean's like, "Man, this sucks. I can't believe I'm gonna die. You called Samuel, and he's gonna kill me when he gets here, and I'm gonna ask him to do it because you won't do it." And Sam's like, “No, no, no, we can figure this out!” And then Dean starts hearing Sam's heartbeat, and it's completely steady, like he's not at all panicked, which I think was a fun little detail to throw in.

G: Yeah, the heartbeat? It's so cool. It's so cool.

C: Sam says, “That's 'cause I'm trying to stay calm, Dean! 'Cause I care about you!” [G laughs] Sam asks how it feels, and Dean goes, "You want to talk about my feelings?" and Sam says, "No, I mean physically." And he's just generally very curious about a lot of aspects of vampirehood throughout the episode in a "he doesn't really care!" way. He looks in the mirror, and there's like a little baby fang coming in on the top part of his gum.

G: Love it. Love it!

C: Very cute. And then we cut back to Sam POV. He hears some sounds from the bathroom. He goes inside. Dean has escaped through the window, and now he's in Lisa's house, and he's mimicking the book cover.

G: You know what? [C: Yeah.] Now that I think about it, Sam and Dean in their childhood, or at the very least, Sam in his childhood, must never had pretended to be a vampire at any point in his life, and that makes me so sad. [C: Yeah.] He's never done a "Mwahahahaha!" and that makes me- Maybe that explains Sam's psychology entirely. I think Dean- Do you think Dean, before he was 4, would have done that shit, or would Mary have been like, "No." [C laughs]

C: Huh! I don't know. Are kids into vampires before age 4? Some of them. I guess they see them in Sesame Street.

G: [overlapping] No, because they see them in Sesame Street. There's Count Dracula.

C: Yeah. Sure, maybe Dean had his vampire phrase.

G: Do you think Dean ever did Count Dracula's accent, and Mary was like, "Dean. [both laugh] This is not who you are!"

C: Yes. I do.

G: Maybe when Sam was a kid, he watched an episode of Sesame Street, and he did Count Dracula's accent, and John wrote in his journal, like, [C laughing] "Sam is evil. He's on the way to being a monster."

C: "He wants to be a vampire." [G: Literally.] Dean's mimicking the My Summer Blood book cover because Lisa's sleeping, and he's standing over her, watching.

G: [laughing] Oh, that's what they're doing! [C: Yeah.] I completely missed that!

C: Lisa wakes up and sees him. Dean's like, "Hi, I wanted to see you." And Lisa's like, "What's going on? What's wrong?" And I don't understand why Dean won't just tell her. [G: Yeah.] I don't get it.

G: Dean also did this in Season... 5! I was gonna say 4, that's why I said it like that.

C: Yeah, showing up, being ominous like, "I'm gonna die soon. But I love you." Like, what is this for?

G: It sucks! It's a horrible thing to do. It's a horrible thing to do. Just write a goddamn letter.

C: Yeah. And like, if he's being selfish, and he really needs this kind of closure, well, don't be. And I don't know. Call? Leave a voicemail? Yeah, letter works too. It seems out of character for him to be putting Lisa and Ben at risk like this.

G: I mean, he also literally did do it in Season 5, but like, at least that one, it's not like he's putting them in explicit risk, although I suppose he was, because it's like the angels were monitoring him or something. But he was already gonna say yes, so I suppose there's like less of a-

C: Yeah. He won't tell her anything, which I think just makes all of this worse. If she knew he was a vampire then like, they could actually talk after this instead of being like, "Oh. This guy was on his path to domestically abusing me."

G: "And my kid," yeah.

C: And my kid! Anyway, he goes like, "I just need you to know... you and Ben, thanks for everything."

G: So fucking corny.

C: She's like, "Dean, you're scaring me." I don't know. I just thought they had a better communication thing set up. [G: Yeah.] Like, I liked their relationship, partly because I thought that they- yeah- would actually be honest about each things with each other about hunting, yeah.

G: The thing with the Apocalypse is like, Lisa did not know that the Apocalypse was happening. This one, she is aware that Dean's going hunting. She's aware that there's dangers to that. And so like, not communicating it to her is not sparing her anything. She knows that this is a possibility. So why not just tell her that it's what happened?

C: Yeah. I don't get it. So in this world where he says goodbye and then leaves forever, she's just like, "Wow." He already tells her that he's going to die. So like, yeah, what is being gained here? Just being like, "I don't want her to think about me in my last moments like that. I want her to think me as a human." Whatever, Dean! Whatever.

G: Yeah. I mean, Dean has so many hangups about everything. Honestly, when he was like, "And Samuel's gonna kill me because I'm going to ask him to," I was like Jesus Christ, dude. Like, calm down. [C laughing]

C: Yeah. I guess it's just hard to machete off your own head.

G: Yeah, I suppose it is hard. Or is it?

C: Pretty sure it is.

G: He can just look at a barn, see if there's any- What is that thing called? I don't even know what it's called until the Supernatural episode aired. T-bar?

C: Oh, rebar!

G: Rebar? Rebar. [laughs] What is a T-bar? I don't know, but a rebar. But he can just look at a barn and see if there's any rebar there and run towards it.

C: Would that work? I thought it had to be decapitation.

G: Oh, yeah, you're right. I mean, if he's stuck on a fucking rebar, it's not like he can go anywhere. [C laughs] What needs to be done is, Sam needs to pick him up by the shoulder and then impale him on a rebar, and then his feet are like dangling the whole time. He's like, "I can't jump off this thing because my feet is like above the floor!" [C: Yeah.] Yeah, that's what needs to happen.

C: So true. And yeah, he just won't tell her anything, and she's like, "No, you can't just do this. Explain what's going on." And Dean's just like, "I can't bring this shit home to you. My life is ugly and violent, and I'm gonna die soon!" He literally just brought this home to her!

G: He literally brought it home already. [C: Ugh!] It's hilarious that it's vampires that killed Sam and- Well, Dean. [C: Yeah.] Many things wrong with the finale, but the right thing is that a vampire killed Dean. [laughs] I think also, they just got lazy. That's why they did a vampire. Don't you feel like? They just got lazy? That's why a vampire killed him?

C: Maybe.

G: Like they were like, "It doesn't matter who does it as long as it happens" is the vibe, pretty much, and a vampire is the closest thing to like a menacing human being that we can put here.

C: Sure. Everyone's a human being-looking thing in Supernatural, though.

G: Yeah, but a vampire only- what? Bears his fangs? Everyone else turns into a- They have a stick up their arm or whatever. [both laugh] I don't know.

C: Sure. So Lisa comes in closer, demanding he tell her what's going on, and he shoves her against the wall.

G: And they linger on it. Dean leans in-

C: Right. It seems like he might feed.

G: [laughing] And then Dean turns around, and it's the funniest fucking shot in all of Supernatural. [C: Is it? Oh!] Where he's looking over- The window is ajar, so the moonlight is pale across his skin, and he's slowly opening his mouth, and the fangs are coming in. Baby's first teething!

C: He goes into the hallway, and Ben has woken up and is like, saying hi to him, and Dean tells him to stay back, but Ben doesn't, so then Dean also shoves him into a wall and then runs out. And Lisa comes out, and she's like, "Jesus fuck," and she pulls Ben to her. [G: Yeah.] And that's for that scene.

G: Yeah.

-

G: Anyway, Samuel arrives in the motel. Sam opens the door for him, and Samuel's like, "I can't believe you lost Dean," blah blah blah, and Sam was like, "It's not my fault, Samuel. I can't believe you're blaming me!" [C laughs] Anyway, Samuel says, "He's a monster now. You've gotta be prepared to do the right thing." And Dean, very ominously standing on the side, goes, "I told you he'd kill me when he showed up." [C laughs] And yeah, he- like, Sam and Samuel- Is there a better way to say Sam and Samuel that isn't "Sam and Samuel"?

C: We can just give him a completely different name. We just call him "Mary's dad" the whole time.

G: Sam and Samuel Campbell. Literally. So they grab their machetes and hold it ominously as Dean, also equally ominously, turns the corner and shows himself. And Samuel asked if he fed, and Dean is like, "Close. I was close, but I didn't. I went to say goodbye. And that was a bad idea!" He literally is speaking like this for some reason. I mean, I get that the reason is that he's upset because, you know, he's a vampire and he's gonna be dead soon. But as we have established before, I don't like brooding characters. [both laugh] Dean tells him like, "Okay, just, you know, cut my head off now or whatever." But Samuel says, "I didn't come here to kill you, Dean. I came here to save you." And then Samuel starts talking about how he has a recipe for a vampire curing thing, "But it's important that you haven't fed yet."

C: Yeah. Also, Sam acts really shocked when he mentions this, which later, Samuel brings up, "You already knew about the cure, Sam. Why did you say 'what?' back then?"

G: Yeah. And it is actually funny. [laughs] You can see the moment Sam realizes that he needs to act surprised. Like when Dean goes, "What?" And Sam goes, "Whaat?" immediately after. [laughs] So real! You know what? Is Sam the worst actor in the world? Maybe that's the reason why he's a tree in the fucking play that he was in when he was a kid. [C: Yeah.] Anyway, what they need is like a bunch of stuff, but the most important part is that they need a fang from the vampire that turned Dean.

C: No, they just need blood from him.

G: No, they need a fang, right? Or they need blood-

C: It says "blood of the fang that turned you," and "the fang" just refers to the vampire.

G: Ahh. That's interesting! The whole time, I thought they were gonna get his fang!

C: No.

G: Horrible! Well, [laughs] Sam goes, "That guy was huge." Sam, you're literally 6 fucking 4 and a giant! So yeah. Dean volunteers to get it, because he said he can just go into their nest because he's one of them now and get the fucking thing. So their plan is that Dean shoots this guy up with dead man's blood. I forget. Dead man's blood is literally just blood you get from a dead guy?

C: Yeah. [G laughs]

G: Iconic. Anyway, Sam volunteers to come with Dean, but Dean says, "You smell like a hamburger." And so Dean goes alone, and he brings some dead man's blood with him in a syringe, and it's one singular syringe for this whole entire endeavor.

C: Hell yeah!

G: He's going to a nest, by the way. He's going to a place where there are many vampires, and he beought one fucking syringe.

Dean heads out, and Sam and Samuel start like planning to head out to get the other ingredients. But Samuel starts getting suspicious, and he goes, "What the hell's wrong with you, Sam?" And Sam pretends that he doesn't know what Samuel's talking about, and Samuel's like, "You know about the cure. I told you about it months ago!" And Sam was like, "No, you didn't. You must have told somebody else, like Christian or something." [C laughs] And Samuel says like, "That's weird, because if you had known, like I think you had, it's almost like you let him get turned so that you can go into that lair or something and find things out."

C: Yeah, "and find the alpha vamp that we've been chasing."

G: Yeah. And Sam just goes like, "I can't believe you'd think that of me! You think I'm evil? Well, maybe you think that because you're evil!" [C laughing] Honestly, Sam is like- It is kind of a nightmare situation that Dean is in, if we're being completely honest. It's a fucking nightmare to be in this kind of situation, [laughing] but Sam is the funniest guy in the world.

C: Yeah. Absolutely.

-

C: Dean has gone to the vampire nest, and, you know, he sneaks into the building, and then he runs into Robert from earlier, and Robert's just very friendly and bro-y with him. He's like, “Oh my god! Hi! Sup? Glad you made it, man!” and fist bumps him. And he brings Dean over to a fridge full of blood bags and is like, "You must be so starving. Like, here's some food." And Dean goes, “I'm okay. Um, I killed so many people on the way over here, so."

G: [laughs] And the vampire is like, “Whoa, man. I mean, we're not supposed to do that, but that's soo cool." Good for him.

C: Yeah. [laughs] Dean has his ominous line about "First chance I get, I'll show you myself" because he's gonna kill Robert. I am curious about why they're not supposed to kill anyone. Why can't that go hand-in-hand with recruitment?

G: Well, because if they kill someone, that's someone that they didn't recruit.

C: Yeah, but it seems like they only need to recruit hot people, so. Most people are-

G: What?

C: They're only trying to recruit attractive people to like, continue this pyramid scheme, so.

G: Oh, and most people are ugly as fuck.

C: Yeah, so other people are up for grabs. And also, all blonds.

G: Is it like, "Don't put in the energy to do that"? If you are killing someone, then you're putting in the work to kill someone, so might as well just put in the work to recruit someone and drink from a blood bag.

C: I guess so. I guess like a truck of blood is like a lot of people's worth of blood. [G: Yeah.] Dean passes by some other vampires who are sort of glaring at him, and Robert says, "Don't worry about them. They're jealous. The recruiters get to bang all the chicks."

G: Yeah.

C: Yeah. So- I guess I wasn't entirely sure. Okay, so like, part of it is during the recruitment process, you might have sex with a teenage girl. And is the other part like, once they're turned into vampires, they remain specifically sex slaves for the recruiters? Or like-

G: I'm not sure, actually. Also, I don't think they only recruit good-looking people. Because this vampire did say that like, "All these people, they're just jealous of you because they're ugly as fuck, and you're not."

C: Yeah. They also look basically the same level of track of attractive as Robert and Dean.

We see Kristen in front of a laptop, sitting on- not sitting on Boris's left, but he's like, looming over her. And yeah, so he's telling her what to type on the computer in order to catfish another girl, and yeah, he's like, creeping on her. He's sniffing her hair and all of that, and she's very uncomfortable with it. And there's some other teen girls in cages, who are drinking blood from bags, and Boris has some line to Kristen where he calls her "sweetheart" and tells her to "Go to the cage and then march that little ass right back here." So yeah, I mean, it's bad. Don't like it. [laughs] [G: Yeah.] And there's like a moment where she like, locks eyes with Dean. And like I was like, "Is he gonna help her?" No.

G: He's going to murder this girl!

C: Yeah. Nothing. Yeah, Boris is like, "I thought that hunter killed you," and Dean's like, "What's a hunter?" [laughing] That's actually also a regular word in the English language that you could understand from context clues, Dean.

G: Literally.

C: Yeah. And Boris is like, "Don't worry. I'll kill him."

G: Do you think all monsters think of hunters as like, that's the word they use? Some sects of monsterhood must call them different names.

C: Other words, yeah. I guess not vampires. Boris says that he's like, 600 years old, and now it's a great time to be a vampire "because these stupid little brats are so horny, they've reinvented us as Prince Charming with a Volvo. You're like, gonna be the hot vampire of their dreams and then bring them home to me."

G: Honestly, Dean looks more like he would be a werewolf in a vampire/werewolf book.

C: Yes, I agree. And he's saying all of this while he's pulling the hair of one of the girls in a cage. And Dean asks about the cages, and he says, "That's just till they're compliant." So why isn't Dean in a cage? Why aren't any of the guys in cages, if they also have the same job?

G: Yeah.

C: There's just sort of this underlying thing that like, if a man gets turned into a vampire and is told that his job is going to be to prey on teenage girls to turn them into sex slaves, that he'll just be down for it?

G: I don't even know, man.

C: Like, he'd just immediately be down for it, so there's no need to like, break him?

G: You know what I solemnly think? I think they think it's going to be gay to have men in there. [C snorts]

C: Yeah, you know what? [laughs] Yeah. [laughs] I believe it. I think what I was more thinking was just they're partly doing this for sexual gratification, so what's the point of having men in there?

G: I mean, what it is is they're trying to evoke a visual. This episode is trying to evoke a visual. Whatever the fuck the actual vampire lair is doing, I don't know. But like, what the show is doing is, I think, they're trying to evoke a greater sense of horror by the fact that it's women who are in there. [C: Yeah.] Or, I don't know. Like, not greater sense of horror. I think there is an aspect of it that if you put men in there, that it's more real.

C: Hm. Yeah.

G: Yeah. And because Supernatural-

C: Because that's what Dean's role is. He could be in a cage! Oh, no! How horrible!

G: Yeah, but like, because Supernatural is the way it is, women can be just part of the accessories in the general horror of a place, and that's how they do it.

C: Yeah, they're just sort of background eyecandy/whatever. They just make hissing noises.

G: Or horror, yeah.

C: The idea is that like they're acting very animalistic. And the idea is just because they're newly turned, they're like so hungry for blood, so then-

G: No no no, they're like- There's like, a thing that they're drinking, right?

C: Blood.

G: They're being given- is that blood?

C: Yeah.

G: I thought they were being drugged.

C: No, he tells her to go back to the cage and have some blood. It's just blood.

G: Oh. Okay.

C: Yeah. So the idea is like they're just newly turned, so they're like so hungry for blood that they're so animalistic that Dean doesn't need to engage with them on a person-to-person basis. But Dean is also newly turned, and he's not like that. So what's up? But yeah, I think that is just back to the Supernatural deciding who is a person based off of like- Well, they're deciding who's a person first, and then through that, they're deciding what character can be related to Sam and Dean's predicaments in a way. And like, they've decided that because these are girls, that they're completely other from Dean, and that he has no sympathy for them, or any sort of whatever.

G: And like, all the guys in the lair are like, like Dean. Somehow- and Dean is also- has not fed, is newly turned, as you've said, and he's not acting like these girls in cages. [C: Yeah.] So like, yeah. It is just to provide horror for the setting without addressing or engaging with the idea that Dean is one of these people, and it's supposed to be- It's the same reason why he was a monster outside, but here, he's like, completely clearheaded.

C: Yeah. Why aren't the lights in here making everybody really upset?

G: Yeah, literally. It's bright. They have a fucking cathedral ceiling. [C: Yeah.] And the fucking light cathedral, too, not the baroque kind. [C laughs]

C: Mm-hm. Yeah, so basically, after these girls are quote-unquote "compliant," they're gonna go out and fetch Boris boys like Dean, and it's just gonna be all the way down. And Dean asks if Boris came up with the system, and he says, "No, I just implement it. It's our father's." And he points to like this stained glass ceiling. [G: Yeah.] And Dean's curious about this, so Boris is like, "Ooh, okay, I'll give you a private tour." And he starts walking to lead Dean, so his back is turned, and he's so far away, but Dean already pulls out the syringe.

G: Yeah. And he makes a whole thing about it, too. He's like-

C: Your arm is not that long! [G: Yeah.] But when he pulls it out, a drop of it falls to the floor, which Boris hears because of vampire superhearing, and he whips around, and he makes Dean drop the syringe, and he's gonna attack, but then he starts to hear whispers from the ceiling, and then he kind of just collapses, and this happens little by little with each vampire in there. And Dean collapses last. I think it's like his connection to the alpha vampire's weaker because he's the newest one.

He has a vision, and so there's like, a creepy little girl- a little Victorian girl or whatever. I don't actually know what time period this is from. But I feel like that's sort of the image they're trying to evoke.

G: It's like, so wait. This is visions from the alpha vampire, right?

C: I think so.

G: But it's not supposed to be like the vampires first turn. This is just some fuck-all turn he does.

C: I feel like it might be. I think it's his first turn because-

G: But it's like, way too recent for that to be the case.

C: - there's like, an image of a cell dividing, which makes it seem like, "Oh, this is science! This is the start of it."

G: No, but like, it's like way too recent. The visuals are way too recent. This vampire that Dean is talking to, 600 years ago. So when was that?

C: That's true. The 1400s. And this dress, yeah.

G: They're supposed to be in a fucking cellar in like, Bavaria or something.

C: They're supposed to be dying of the plague! [both laugh]

G: Literally.

C: No, you're right. 'Cause this is they make this seem like this is the first turning because of all the science imagery.

G: Yeah, and it's The Shining, is what they're doing.

C: Yeah, but it can't be if Boris is 600 years old because he's- unless, like, yeah, because this is more recent than that.

G: He's not even the alpha, yeah.

C: Yeah. And he's not even the alpha.

G: So it must be older than that. Is this vampire turning cavemen?

C: Yeah, no, that's so weird. Like, did they just fuck up?

G: Will we find a Neanderthal with vampire DNA?

C: Don't know.

G: Would be pretty cool if we do.

C: Would be. I don't know. This is confusing. I didn't realize this until you said it. But yeah, I have no clue. Yeah. But there's a creepy little Victorian girl who should be in rags on a dirt floor dying of the plague but isn't. [G: Literally.] And there's an image of a cell dividing. There's a graveyard. And then there's a Black man, who is the alpha vampire, and I remember hearing about how the alpha vampire is Black man, and people talking about that being a racist portrayal, which I think is true, nonetheless. But I am curious about if we see more of him later or if this is sort of it.

G: I don't know. I truly don't know. We'll see, I guess. [C: Yeah.] I'm not doing well in the "have seen this show many times" department. [C laughs] [C: Yeah.] Or am I?

C: You're really not.

G: I have historically not done well on it. You have always known more about this damn show than I have when we talk about it [C laughing] in the episode-per-episode, so like, who even knows?

C: Yeah. And we're both- I feel like during our Supernatural Tumblr days, we were both logged on for about the same amount of time.

G: No, literally. [laughs] We were both logged on in the same hours, which is quite frankly impressive, even.

C: [laughing] Due to the time difference, yeah.

G: Yeah.

C: Right, graveyard classroom, little girl. He's beckoning towards her. There's like, twins. Both little girls. Their teeth are showing. There's like, a line of blood that he smears down both their faces or something. Blah blah blah. But yeah. Should we discuss the alpha vampire being Black? This feels like a bad choice. [laughs] I think it's a bad choice.

G: Why? What are the reasonings that you would put out for that?

C: I think, just, I don't know. I guess vampirism is like, sort of like a blood disease. I feel like the main allegory is either to addiction or HIV.

G: Okay, let's talk about that. Yeah, let's talk about that part first. This episode did make me wonder about like, the rise in the concept of vampires, it must be coming from something. It must be coming from a social anxiety of some kind. And yeah, I do think there is a line between those ideas and the fact that the alpha that the Supernatural is doing is Black. But yeah, go on.

C: Yeah. So yeah. Okay, I think this episode of vampires are mostly sexual predation. [G: Yeah.] And then I think addiction and like, bloodborne diseases, especially like maybe HIV or whatever are also things that have sort of created the vampire as we know it. And then Dracula originally was about like, fear of the foreigner mostly. And I feel like all of those things are things that can be related to like, negative ideas around Black men, so I think that's iffy. I think the fact that this is happening in the Sera Gamble-

G: Also, yeah. I don't know. I'm just uncomfortable again, because you said the Sera Gamble, and like the last Black vampire we got from Sera Gamble is, in fact, Gordon, and like, I don't know. Sera Gamble did not write this episode, and like we don't know if it's part of the script, like if they wrote that in. [laughs] I think it would be weirder if they did. [C: Yeah.] But I don't know. That is a choice that you make as a casting- If you look at the casting, if you look at the edit. You know, those are choices that you make. And like, we have talked about how this season, with the fact that with Raphael and like, just the regular episode-per-episode beat, [C: Yeah.] it's not looking good. [both laugh] And so it's not like a benefit of the- Again, I always say it like this, but it's not like a situation where you'll be like, "Okay, I'll give it the benefit of the doubt."

C: Yeah, yeah. Season 6 has a lot more Black characters, and most of them are villains. Yeah. It's just odd. It's just odd

G: And you have this episode that's running on the idea of- There's no like black vampire that we see this episode, aside from the alpha.

C: We see one in the lair. [G: Really?] He's not a recruiter. He's in the crowd of people who are jealous Dean's a recruiter, and then Dean kills him at some point later.

G: Ah. Yeah. I do feel like some- This episode specifically, the vision of a vampire that we were supposed to see is like, a young white person who's like, banking on the idea of being pale and white. [laughs] You know what I mean? And so I don't know. Etc, etc.

C: Yeah. And it's the fact that the alpha vampire is also like giving Boris instructions on what to do. So like, you have this Black man who's saying like, "Send out all your pretty white boys to like, turn teenage girls into sex slaves." I just don't think that's like, the look you want for this episode. [laughs] It's the sexual predation episode. And like, in these visions, like, I guess the people that he's turning are like, these little white girls in like, Victorian England or some shit, [laughs] and I feel like there's like a lot of fears about black men raping white women and white girls, as we've mentioned before, and like, that sort of plays into that, too. And I think the fear of the foreigner plays into this, too. So yeah.

G: It still bothers me so much the way they do the Gordon episode. 'Cause they play up that visual. They really do. [C: Yeah.] The idea of Gordon preying on innocent white women. [C: Yeah.] And so, yeah.

C: Yeah. Yeah.

G: You think it's Sera Gamble's fault? [laughs] I mean, yes, I think it is.

C: Yeah. I mean, I think, right, because Gordon is based off of another character in a different franchise who's Black, so she did specifically make him Black. Like, that was on purpose. And then she wrote the episodes with him in it?

G: Yes!

C: So yeah, that's all on her, baby. But are you talking about is it her fault in this season if she didn't write it? Not sure. I don't know what the showrunner's role is regarding mapping out things and casting, but I think she at least had the power to like, I think if she's overseeing this to go, "Huh. I don't know about this one, guys." And she didn't, and I think that means something as well.

The vision also shows a red circle on a map around Aurora, Illinois, apparently, so I guess that's where he is. So Dean wakes up, and everyone else has already gotten up, and Boris is releasing the girls from the cage to attack Dean.

G: The sic on Dean.

C: Yeah. Why would they do that?

G: Because they're animals, Crystal! [C laughs]

C: Yeah. Yeah, that is what the episode is saying.

G: Yeah. They're attack dogs, is what they're doing.

C: Logically, they're not compliant yet, which means that they don't really have any loyalty to Boris, and Dean doesn't have human blood, so it's not hunger. So there's no actual reason, if you thought of them as people with thoughts and feelings, for them to go after him, but because they're being portrayed as attack dogs-

G: That's why I thought they were being drugged! I thought they were being drugged, that's why they were doing all this.

C: Yeah, no, I'm pretty sure it's just blood.

G: But like, Kristen isn't.

C: She isn't what? Like, animalistic? [G: Yeah.] Yeah. He sent her back to the cage to drink the same thing as them, though. So it's just that we saw her earlier, so they're like, "Well, we'll let her be portrayed as a person." [G: Yeah.] But yeah, I think there's no real logic to it. It's, as you said, just sort of the horror aesthetic of these hissing women.

G: It is fascinating that Supernatural shows that like, the turning can only be reversed if you haven't drank blood yet. [C: Yes.] I think they use it as a way to excuse this massacre that happens.

C: Yes, I agree, because or else, it's like, "Why wouldn't you just fix everybody?" [laughs]

G: Yeah. "You can only be fixed from monsterhood if you remain pure!" [C: Yeah.] I hate Supernatural. [laughs]

C: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. So it's just a fight scene where a bunch of vampires are going at Dean, and he injects one with dead man's blood. He's going around with his machete, etc. And yeah, they do explicitly show him killing those teenage girls. Yay.

G: Yay. And then, like, I don't know. Sam and Samuel show up outside, they get attacked. We go back to Dean, and like, Boris says, "This doesn't end with us," or something like that. "This is bigger than the both of us." So more ominous stuff for the future of Season 6, I guess. And then, yeah. Eventually, Sam and Samuel come in, and, as you said earlier, dead girls strewn everywhere to greet them by the door. And then they head into the center of the place, and Dean is sitting with the head of the vampire underneath his foot. I find it so annoying. For some reason, I found this so- I just- I find it so annoying. And you know, Dean is like, he's clenching his jaw, and he's like, "I got him" or whatever.  Or like, he says, like, "I'm good." Yeah. So fucking annoying. Hate it. I can't even articulate why. I just- I dislike it.

C: It's the specific brand of like, action hero, grim anti-hero trope.

G: Yeah, like, "He didn't want to be a killer, and he's damn good at it," [both laugh] you know?

C: Yeah. I think he wanted to be a killer, though. I think he did want to do that.

G: Literally.

-

G: Sam, Dean, Samuel are now in a fucking shed or whatever, and Samuel is preparing the cure, and it's like just a mug of like, very red tea. And there's like, bits and pieces of twigs and leaves in there, which I thought was pretty fun. And he warns Dean like, "Oh, just so you know, this is gonna be- it's not gonna be easy what you're about to do." And I was like, "Dude, what? You're gonna make him stay a vampire? What the fuck is this?" [both laugh] So Dean just drinks the potion, and at first, nothing happens.

C: But before he does that-

G: Oh, yeah, before he does this.

C: Sam just goes, "What did you see in there?"

G: Yeah. Sam's fucking interrogating him. And Dean was like, "Dude, I cannot fucking hear you because your blood is too loud, so let me drink this first." And at first, nothing happens, but then he vomits everything out, and Samuel says that like, "Yeah, he's like, vomiting out the bad" or whatever.

C: He draws out his machete, which I think makes no sense to me. [both laugh] [G: Yeah.] 'Cause he says, "Either the cure's working or Dean is dying." What's the machete for then? [both laugh]

G: To make it quicker! [C laughs]

C: Yeah, how nice.

G: What happens is Dean starts getting visions, and he starts going back through the time where he was a vampire, and then noticing things from a different perspective than he would have or something. And a part of it was the last thing that he sees is Sam standing in the alley right before he gets turned. And it's like, the Sam smirk. [laughs] So wonderful. It's the Sam smirk. And I do think this scene is shot well, and like, edited well and directed well, that it really does evoke in you the dread of the situation as we go to like, Dean's eye as he's completely still on the ground, and then it slowly pans up to show his face. And yeah. It's great. Especially because it's like, loud loud loud loud loud, and then the realization happens, and then it just goes completely quiet. It's pretty cool. I really like this scene. I thought it was like, well done. Anyway, he's back in real life. He's just reeling from what he found out. Man, what a horrible situation! I feel so bad for Dean, honestly! It sucks. And it's like it's the fact that even if he catches Sam in the lie, Sam just straight up goes, "No. You're wrong." [C: Yeah.] Yeah. [both laugh] Which is like, a different kind of bad. It's layers.

C: Yeah. It's 'cause Sam doesn't feel bad about it, so there's nothing that Dean can really hold on to regarding like, "Hey, stop that."

G: Yeah. And like, Sam doesn't even like acknowledge that it is something that happened or it is something that's done. And you know, it's such a huge- Even without the subtext of the episode where it's sexual assault, right? Like it is still a physical change that was imposed on him that is terrifying [C: Yeah.] and massive. And Sam literally just stood in the corner and gave a fun little smirk about it. Like, it's terrifying to think like, "I'm going to be in this in a car with this guy for like, forever." It's such a creepy situation, and I do enjoy it.

-

G: Yeah, anyway, so they're back at their motel, and Sam and Samuel, they're packing up. Dean goes out of the bathroom, and I also like the shot they do here. I like the directing of this episode. The shot they do is like, it's the door opening, and you see the room from Dean's perspective, and like, you know, Sam and Samuel in there. And I don't know, I think it just really evokes the unsettledness that Dean is feeling. [C: Right.] Anyway, so Sam starts interviewing Dean about what happened in the nest.

C: Yeah, he says the exact sentence that he said before Dean drank the thing. It was literally like, "Ugh, you were being so dramatic earlier, but I can ask again. So what'd you see?"

G: Yeah, literally. And Dean relays that they're getting orders via hallucination or whatever from their alpha. Oh, "a psychic thing" is what he calls it, from their alpha, and that he's recruiting, and that's what they're doing. They're recruiting people. They're building an army, just like BTS. And yeah. And Dean says also that, "Oh, we hunters, we don't scare them anymore."

C: I didn't- from where did he decide that that was the case?

G: I don't know. I truly don't know, honestly.

C: Boris is like, "I'll kill Sam if he comes here." But like, yeah, okay, you wouldn't be scared of one hunter if you had an entire nest. Like, is that new?

G: I don't know. Are they really banking on them- on like, monsters and vampires specifically being afraid of them?

C: Yeah, I didn't know that was part of their main strat.

G: Yeah. Well, anyway. They head out. I don't know. Samuel goes whatever the fuck he goes, and Dean is by the Impala, trying to call Lisa, but it's going to voicemail, but he doesn't leave one. He just hangs up. And Sam comes in and he's like, "Okay, how did it go with Lisa?" And Dean's like, "It didn't." And then Sam just goes, "Oh. Sorry!" [both laughing] He's kinda iconic. I keep on reiterating that this is such a terrible situation, but Sam is literally fucking iconic. [C: He is.] Dean goes, "Well, I mean, I've lost life as I know it, but you know, at least I always know that you're always gonna be on my side, and I can always count on you, no matter what. Right, Sam?" And Sam puts on his most fakeass smile that the world has ever seen. [C laughs] And he goes, "Yeah. Of course, Dean." And then he does a reassuring smile that is the creepiest thing in the world. I love it. I enjoy it so much.

C: Yeah, I love it when men lie.

-

G: Well, what did we think about this episode?

C: Um, nah. I would rather not have it. Yeah. [laughs]

G: The thing is like, it's unfortunate because- knowing like, if you remove all the parts of the episode that are well, fundamental to it, [C laughs] it is a pretty good concept. It's an amazing concept of like, the main concept of "Sam lets Dean get turned," and it's like, creepy and nefarious. That's such a fun thing in the episode, and I greatly enjoyed all the parts that are about that. But yeah, the rest of it is- Well. [laughs] Yeah. I don't know. I just wonder, like, what is Supernatural trying to do? And the thing is like, a part of me, I've mentioned it in the past, but like, a part of me does feel sometimes, like, "Am I just a complainer who loves to complain?" Just because Supernatural is doing something that is like they're trying to portray something that is bad doesn't mean that they agree with it or whatever. And obviously, they don't agree with all this.

C: Yeah, they're anti-sex slave. Or anti-sex slavery, but.

G: The aspects in which they approach this are like, wrong. [laughs] But like, I don't know. I don't agree with it, and that's the problem. The victim-blaming part of it, the way that they portray it in specific ways wherein you're not supposed to empathize with these girls. Like, yeah, their thesis is “Sex slavery is wrong. You can't just kidnap girls and turn them into prostitutes.” [C laughs]

C: They're so brave for saying that.

G: And like, yeah, well, I agree. And then also, you put these girls in cages and specifically delineate between the girls in this place and the men in this place- because that is the delineation. It's girls and men. And the men in the situation, I don't know- not even that they have agency or anything, but they're just like, human beings that you're supposed to look at- well, "human." They're vampires that you're supposed to look at and think of as people and capable of intellect and capable of thought and capable of blah blah blah, but the girls do not get any of that at all. And it's just, I don't know. It's just a fascinating example of trying to say something and then just like, falling face flat in a pile of shit. [C laughs] Like, what is this?

C: Yeah. I don't know, man. Brett Matthews, explain to me. Please.

G: And this is not new for Supernatural. This is literally our complaint about 6.03, right? That’s the one where Cas goes like- What's that? “The Third Man.” [C: Yeah, Aaron Birch.] Yeah. That is our complaint about how they handled the police brutality thing that they were trying to address in that episode. Like, yeah, they tried to do it, and it's not an inherently bad thing to talk about these things. It's just that the way they talk about it completely lacks, I don't know, like, anything. No nuance, no substance, nothing new to say, nothing- you know. It's just, what are they doing?

C: The idea that the victims are just like, well, it happened to them. That's bad. We're now done with them. Like, yeah, there's no idea of humanity or a future for these people.

G: “These girls are so stupid and horny, and that's why they're now in cages!” Like, fuck off. [C: Yeah.] Yeah, anyway. [laughs] Best Line/Worst Line? [both laugh]

C: Best line. Was there a line where I was like, “yippee!” at any point?

G: Well, I'm not sure. Best line. I do enjoy the part with Lisa in the beginning, like, when Dean was calling Lisa, [C: Yeah.] and Lisa's enthusiasm to see Dean. Wait, I'm going to look up actually, what she says. Because at some point, Dean is trying to say, “Oh, yeah, I'll do this first, I'll do this first, yeah.” And then the entire time, Lisa is like, “Yeah, okay, yeah, okay.” And then at some point, she just goes, “Okay, Dean, whatever! I understand that you have to do all these things, but can you just like, get your ass here?” And I thought that was so cute that like, you know, they have all of these logistics to get through, but the fundamental of it is that Lisa is just so excited that Dean’s gonna be there.

C: Yeah, I also liked that scene. I liked the affection we got to see in their relationship, so I'll just go with that one too. Or Sam's, “What?” [both laugh]

G: Literally. His very theater kid who is so bad at it, has no future in this career whatsoever, "What?" So important. We've talked in the past that Dean and Lisa don't really have a lot of affectionate scenes together, and the one time they have sex, it's a dream. [both laugh] So like, I don't know. It is fun to see all this, I think. Just, they like each other! And now Dean is going to be so miserable forever because Lisa is not answering his calls because he went there as a vampire and then pushed her in the wall and then pushed Ben in the wall. [both laugh]

C: Yeah, kind of on him with that one. [G: So yeah.] Yeah. And then Cas is gonna wipe her memory at some point. [G: Yeah.] Yeah, where is Lisa's role in the rest of this season? Do they make up after this? Or is it fully just like, she's just there as someone that monsters put in danger to motivate Dean to do things now?

G: I don't know. [laughs]

C: Yeah. Well.

G: A surprise to no one. Yeah. Well, worst line.

C: A lot of them.

G: I think I just hate all of the lines when they were in that damn room of the girl, and they kept on- [C: Yeah.] I just thought the making fun of Twilight thing is corny, tired, and played out for Supernatural.

C: Yeah, and how that plays into the victim-blaming of it all. [G: Yeah.] Yeah, I agree.

G: Well, spreadsheet. Spread those sheets.

C: Yeah. I think there's misogyny that's inherent to the episode. [G: Yeah.] How high?

G: Okay. Misogyny? 4, I would say. [C: Mm-hm.] Racism-

C: I think the alpha vampire being Black is an issue. It's hard to know what number of points it is until- Are we gonna see him more?

G: Who knows? I mean, I could probably look it up. I think we will! Let's see. We will.

C: Okay, yeah.

G: Oh, yeah! We will definitely!

C: Okay.

G: That's so weird! Because like, when I was watching this episode, I didn't really see it clearly, so I didn't recognize him. But yeah, I recognize this guy completely! [C: Okay.] I didn't recognize him this episode. He's gonna be here a lot. [C: Oh, okay.] Yeah, we can reserve our other complaints, perhaps, in later episodes where he's prominent.

C: Yeah, once we have more of him. But yeah, I think there's still an amount of points to be assigned just to the mere fact.

G: 1? 2.

C: I was thinking 2, yeah. [G: Okay.] And then we'll get more as we go. Homophobia, there was the scene in the bar of the guys kissing and Dean looking disgusted, [laughs] and then the glitter line, so that probably totals to like, a 1. Is that a 1 or more?

G: Yeah, I think it's a 1. [C: Yeah.] I think, you know what? The fact that they had two guys kiss, maybe that cancels out the 1. No, it doesn't.

C: It cancels out Dean looking disgusted at it?

G: No, it cancels out the 1 in the 2, so there's still the 1, yeah.

C: I see. Yeah.

G: Yeah. Well.

C: Alright. IM that Db.

G: I can't believe they gave Jensen Ackles a good episode for his debut directing. Like, of course it’s gonna be highly rated, and it's gonna get good reviews. [C: Yeah.] Like, it's a fucking gimmick episode. Fuck off. [C: Yeah.] Sorry! I mean, it's fine. Jensen Ackles can direct if he so desires. Okay, IMDb. I would say this one is low. Okay. Do you guess, or am I first?

C: I'm odd.

G: You are!

C: Yeah, okay. I agree that this is low. I think this is going to be a sort of polarizing episode. I don't know. Um... 7.8. 7? 7.7.

G: Yeah. 7.7. [C: You?] Me? I'm going to go 7.9.

C: Okay. You're gonna be right. You've been right every time so far, right?

G: Have I been?

C: The closest every time.

G: Oh, well, I have been closer every time, but I've only been right once, I think. Okay. Let's see.

C: Watch it be so high.

G: Oh. It's an 8.3.

C: I fucking hate everybody. Is everyone like, "It's soo funny!"

G: "Nice parody and mythos?" Not true.

C: What?

G: It says it's a "nice blend of parody and mythos." [C: Hm.] It says, “surprisingly atmospheric and completely intriguing.” I do think, as I've said, I do love the bare concept of it. It's just what they do with it is- And by bare concept, I mean not the Twilight part. The Sam and Dean and Sam being a horrible person part of it.

C: Yeah. This person says for the parody that the jokes mostly land without them being too mean-spirited or sour. I don't know about that.

G: Oh, this one says, "I never watched any show that left me with that much horror before as this episode did. What started out to be a casual vampire hunt, turned out very shocking, disturbing and catastrophic. The season started out with the amazing 'Beautiful loser' track [C laughs] and it is indeed Dean that is loosing every thing. Didn't only loose his family but also his trust for his younger brother." [laughs] Love it! Love losing trust for your younger brother. "We all know something is very wrong with Sam this season, but seeing him watching his brother turned into a monster, not stepping in to help him and only watching with a smirk was very disturbing." Oh, these people are saying that Samuel is getting more interesting. "first he knew a cure for Djinn poison now for a vampire's, but still that most troubling question: who does he work for and who brought him and Sam back?" So true. [C: Yeah.] You know what? This one says,Kudos to Jared Padalecki for pulling out such an interesting character change on our beloved Sam and turn him into that cold uncaring dick masterfully." I do agree. I think it is pretty cool the way Sam is acted. [C: Yeah.] Oh, this one brings up the part where Samuel goes, "turns out there's a Campbell in him" or something about Dean, which is, I think that is interesting. I just fail to find Samuel interesting in any regard whatsoever.

C: Yeah. [laughing] Sorry, this last 1 out of 10 review, [G: "Gross!"] "I don't know what was more disgusting of this episode, [G laughs] Samuel's bald head or fat stinky vampire's face"?

G: There are more disgusting things this episode, I assure you!

C: "I wonder do producers choose the most disgusting actors and more them even less bearable in purpose"? So, okay, yeah, I think there are worse things in this episode than people you consider ugly being in it? [laughs] What does this mean? Yeah, and then they said that what's dead must stay dead.

G: This has 26 downvotes, and I support that. [laughs] [C: Yeah.] 0 upvotes, 26 downvotes. Love it.

C: I think they didn't want them to do any new vampire episodes after “Dead Man's Blood” 'cause that was like, the peak or whatever.

G: I do think there is an aspect to like- I've said this earlier, but just to reiterate, or I don't know, approach it from a different way, there is like an aspect to vampire that is close enough to human that they can just portray it as like a bunch of people that are menacing, which is what they do in “Dead Man's Blood,” I think. They had that group of vampires that were just like hanging out on the side of the road, threatening Dean or coming up to him. Is that the one where John says that “We should send Dean out as bait” or something? [C: Yeah.] Well, yeah. And I do think with Supernatural, they tend to approach the vampire in that regard. That is how they do it, as creepy humans who are sex traffickers or whatever. [C: Right.] I don't know. I just think that's something to think about. I wonder what other- can you think of other monsters that they do that with?

C: Crossroads demons?

G: Yeah, but they treat crossroads demons, at the very least, having some sort of keeping to their word or whatever. You know what I mean? And because they don't come in a group, there's no power in number that they do with the crossroad demon as well, which is a lot of the vampire thing that they do. The point of a vampire is the nest. Yeah, I just find it interesting, the social dynamics of the monsters in Supernatural. [laughs]

Well, that’s it for this episode of Busty Asian Beauties. Next week, we will be discussing 6.06, "You Can’t Handle the Truth." Leave us a rating or a review wherever you get your podcasts, and yes, we are trying to release every week now, [both laugh] something we’ve never done before.

C: Is the next one the aliens one? The fairies one?

G: Yes.

C: Hell yeah. Follow us on social media! I love when Dean's homophobic. We are on Tumblr at bustyasianbeautiespod.tumblr.com. Our official tag is #BABPod, B-A-B-POD. Thanks to everyone who's donated to our Ko-Fi at ko-fi.com/bustyasianbeautiespod, which is where our outtakes live, and check out our merch at babpod.redbubble.com.

G: You can email us any feedback, comments, or inquiries at bustyasianbeautiespod@gmail.com. See you guys next time! [both] Bye!

[guitar music]

[bustyasianbeautiespod]

Episode 108 Transcript: Hello, It’s Allergies. Hello, It’s Rhinitis. And this is Stuffy Asian Beauties.

[intro guitar music]

G: Hello, it's Grey.

C: Hello, it's Crystal.

G: And this is Busty Asian Beauties, a Supernatural commentary podcast where I, someone who has seen the show many times...

C: And I, someone who only knows the show through social media, discuss every single episode of Supernatural from start to finish. Also, we are both Asian.

G: Both Asian! For today's episode, we are discussing Season 6, Episode 4: "Weekend at Bobby’s," written by Andrew Dabb and Daniel Loflin, directed by Jensen Ackles.

C: Ugh. I couldn't really tell that there was anything special, director-ing-wise, so.

G: Which is probably a good thing, yeah.

C: Yeah. It means he wasn't noticeably bad at it.

G: Yeah. And this is like a gimmick episode. Like, there's a gimmick. I suppose every episode supposedly has a gimmick, though. [C: Yeah.] Yeah, but this one, it's a gimmick episode. Okay, let's start with, did you like it?

C: Yes, but I don't think the writers like women.

G: Well, that's obvious fro everything that Supernatural has done.

C: Yeah. And every time they brought out the damn cobbler, I started booing and throwing tomatoes at my screen. I think that was stupid.

G: Didn't they just do it one time?

C: No, there's several times where Bobby brings it out, and he is like about to take a bite or whatever, and then somebody calls, and he's like, "Oh my god! I never will have rest in order to like indulge in the domestic life provided to me by women, which could comfort me. This is so sad!" [G laughs]

G: Yeah. And I think me asking, "Does it ever come up?" is proof that I did knit while watching this episode. So sorry.

C: Yeah. Hmm.

G: No, not "hmm." [both laughing]

C: What's the right sound? "Yayy!"

G: You're supposed to say, "So true!" Like that.

C: Okay. So true!

G: I do like this episode, I would say. Like, if I was a person who liked Bobby- [C laughs] It is incredibly hilarious to me that Dean was like, "Wow! Some things are more important than Sam, aren't they?" And it's like, dude, you're talking to Bobby. [C laughs] [C: Yeah.] Everything's more important than Sam, it seems like.

C: For real.

G: What did you know about this episode before going in?

C: I knew that people liked it, and that's about it.

G: Or did they? They did, yeah. I mean, this is a beloved episode, and allegedly, Bobby is a beloved character, so that's not really a surprise. [C: Yeah.] Yeah. Do you think watching this, you understand better the people who are like, "My favorite Supernatural character is Bobby"?

C: Um, no. I mean, he's fun this episode, I suppose, but he's just sort of a POV character. [G: Yeah.] I feel like I don't know him or like him better in the episode. I think it's just like, "Oh, it's interesting to have an episode to think about all the effort that goes behind these sort of phone calls that come up sort of deus ex machina during a case episode for the Winchesters." That was what this episode added for me.

G: I think the Bobby aspects of characterization that we're supposed to learn is that he doesn't know what to ask for help, and he neeeeeds to! or something.

C: Yeah. I guess so. Who cares? [G: Yeah.] Bufus are in love, though.

G: I do think it's incredibly fun- Okay, let's start with the "Then" sequence. I do think it's incredibly fun that we start in like a "triumphs of Bobby's bisexual history." [C laughs] [C: Yeah.] Good for him. Like, we meet Crowley, we meet Rufus, and we see Kim Rhodes. [C: Jody.] What is her character's name? [C: Jody.] Jody, yeah. We see Jody. And it's like, is Bobby involved with these people in different manners that are similar? Yes, is the answer. [C laughs] [C: Yeah.] I am so happy to see Rufus again. [C: Oh, absolutely!] He is incredibly fun, as always. And we get Jewish Rufus confirmation this episode, [C: Yeah.] which is also fun. I do think because Bobby's character type is grumpy old man, they play into that quite a bit, and I think it's the first time I realized that they do actually- like, that is Bobby's archetype. For some reason, I never really realized that before, that they're doing an archetype with him. And they are. He's the grumpy old man! [C: Yeah.] And he is so grumpy and so old, and he has never been so cold [C laughs] or something.

C: He's not that old, but yeah.

G: He's like 61 at this age.

C: Is that so old?

G: No, that's like normal.

C: Well, I guess Penelope Scott wasn't that old when she sang that song. She was younger than 61.

G: Yeah, allegedly. It's about feeling old. Do you think Bobby feels old?

C: Yeah.

G: I think he feels tired. I think he's going to say "estoy cansado" next episode.

-

C: Alright, we start the episode, and we're in Bobby's house, and he's working on some kind of summoning ritual. When it succeeds, Crowley shows up in his house, and Crowley's, you know, being a flippant, silly guy or whatever, and Bobby's quite antagonistic.

G: And this was like, a year ago, so this was like, pretty much immediately after the Apocalypse shit went down.

C: Yes. They have an exchange where Bobby offers Crowley a drink, and Crowley's like, "Ewww!"

G: "I only drink alcohol that is Scottish" or whatever.

C: Yeah, something called Craig that has reached at least 30 years.

G: Okay, I have a question. Do you think they use the Scottish accent to make fun of that guy later? [laughs] I think they do!

C: I don't think so. Really?

G: I think I think they make the whole Scottish thing a way to make fun of Crowley, or something that Crowley should be embarrassed of, or something. [C: Really?] They asked him if he wears a skirt, and he's like, "It's a kilt." [C: No, that's true.] Bobby's like, "What's his name? That's not true. That's Scottish." And Bobby-

C: Well, that's just because he has a British accent.

G: I know, but they make it a reveal and everything [laughs] [C: Yeah.] that Crowley is Scottish, and it's like a whole thing. It really is a whole thing, seems like.

C: Yeah, I guess so.

G: And I do think an aspect of it is like, because it's funny or it's supposed to be. [C: Huh.] Like, it's supposed to be funny that he's pretending to be British, and he's actually Scottish.

C: Yeah, I think it's funny that he's pretending to be British and he's actually Scottish.

G: "It is funny." [laughs]

C: But like, I don't think that the fact that he is Scottish alone would be played for laughs. It's the fact that he's ashamed of it.

G: He's hiding it. [C: Or hiding it.] No, yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it. But like, I don't know. Don't you think the fact that he is hiding it is something that is like, whatever? Are they trying to say something? What are they trying to say?

C: I mean, within the UK, there is accent discrimination [G: Oh, yeah. Of course.] So, just, I don't know. He's just trying to seem what other people would perceive as more fancy and sophisticated. But yeah, I think they they just put it in with his whole like, "He's a fake!" stuff along with his selling his soul for an extra three inches on his dick.

G: Yeah, I do think it's a fascinating choice to have him be a tailor in his life, which is something they mention later, [C: Yeah.] and then one of the things that he was like, upset about because he was like-

C: "They ate my tailor."

G: Yeah, they ate his tailor, and that's like a sign of him not living the fancy life that he wants because he's being, you know, Apocalypsed. [C: Yeah.] And like, yeah, I do think I get what you're trying to say, and I think that's true.

C: I guess it's the- [laughs] were you asking if it's bad that they're doing it?

G: No no no, I'm asking, what is the intentionality behind it?

C: Yeah. I do think people in general take Scots less seriously than Brits, though. [G: Yeah.] So that's part of it.

G: My baby sister did say when we were listening to the David Tennant How to Train Your Dragon audiobook that she can't understand his accent, and "Can we just watch the movie instead?" [both laugh] So yeah, it very well may be.

C: Yeah. Well, your little sister is the arbiter of the greater social opinion.

Bobby tells Crowley, "We put Lucifer in the cage, so you promised that you would give me my soul back." Crowley does this thing where he snaps, and all the writing on the contract appears on Bobby's arms.

G: Yeah. Pretty fun! Later on in the show, they would just have a scroll.

C: But he says, "You didn't read the little paragraph that I added in the contract particularly closely. That part of it is on your crotch, that might be why. But anyway, it says that I only have to make the best efforts to give you back your soul, so, um, you know, I tried. But I can't!" So Bobby's stuck with the usual demon deal thing of he lives for ten years and then he goes to Hell. Bobby's like, "I hate you and want you to die. And also, you're standing inside a devil's trap painted with invisible ink or whatever the fuck. So I'm gonna keep you here until you give me my soul back." But Crowley is just like, "Whatever." and summons a hellhound to threaten Bobby with. So that's our cold open.

-

G: So we go to modern day, and the situation is that Sam and Dean are looking at a case, and they realize that they don't know what the fuck is going on, and so they ring up Bobby. At this point, Bobby's outside, and the phone rings a lot. And then when he comes in, Dean is being like a fucking horrible guy. He's like, "Ah, I can't believe you didn't answer me within two rings, Bobby! I can't believe it! Do you have better things to do? Did you have a fall and you can't get up?" which is very rude of Dean. And yeah, he delivers the news of they can't figure this thing out. "Can you figure it out for us?" Bobby goes, "Okay, whatever." And so Bobby starts his investigation. His research, even. And he like, starts reading books from his house. And this is all set in a soundtrack. A song I don't recognize. He's like, "Oh, damn it! I can't find anything!" He goes out. He goes to the Sioux Falls University Library. Very fun.

C: He passes his neighbor-

G: Yeah. On his way there, he's driving. There's this lady who he smiles at, and the lady smiles back and waves. And yeah, I do think there is like, a fun aspect of this where he seems familiar with like, the people and the place, and, you know. That is fun to think about with the respect of Sam and Dean, especially Dean this season, thinking of hunting as something that has no roots, and that that is fundamental to the hunter experience. And then you see Bobby, and he has roots!

C: He says that he's done a lot for the town. I guess in "Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid," we learn that he has a reputation as the town drunk, but that's still a role in the community, I guess. [both laugh]

G: No, I mean, he does save people and stuff, but I mean, the only reason why those bad things happen to this town is because he's in it, so like, really, [C: True.] what is he doing for this town? A lot, allegedly.

C: I'm sure he's hunted other things before that weren't after him specifically.

G: Stuff is happening. His car won't start, you know, and a door is locked. He breaks in to get inside, and he does say "Balls!" throughout this montage. Before this, was it ever like, a Bobby tagline? I don't think it was.

C: He'd said it before, and nobody else had said it, so.

G: Yeah. But like, was it a thing already? Perhaps it was. I just didn't care about Bobby. It's a very distinct possibility.

C: It's possible, indeed.

G: There's like, you know, more of the montage, and then he figures it out. He calls Dean. Bobby is about to deliver his lore speech, and he says, "You're hunting a lamia," which is a Greek monster that they've only seen in Greece, and it's weird that it's not there, it's outside. Anyway, Dean asked, like, "How are we gonna kill it?" And Bobby just goes, "Well, the easiest way is silver knife blessed-" blah blah blah, and then Dean just goes, "Okay, whatever!" and then hangs up immediately. And Bobby doesn't get-

C: He told Bobby, "I only love you like a coworker."

G: Literally. Bobby's kind of upset because Dean didn't let him finish his lore montage.

C: And it's 5AM for him.

G: Yeah. What time was it for Dean? Where are they? They're in Wisconsin.

C: Well, I think it's about the same time for Dean, but-

G: Well, it's also 5AM.

C: - they make a big point of the clock changing [G: Oh, yeah, showing the clock, yeah.] while he's doing research to show how he never gets any rest because he's working for Sam and Dean and all these other people.

G: Yeah, he's working for the knife that is Sam and Dean. He goes, "You're welcome," reinstating to us that Dean didn't even say, "Thank you"!

C: Wow. So at this, there's a call from the basement where some woman yells, "Hey, I'm still here!" And Bobby goes downstairs, and he has a crossroads demon tied up in his panic room. And he's been questioning her, trying to get her to tell him Crowley's real name, his human name, so that he can threaten him into giving him his soul back. And this demon is a hot woman in a little black dress, like every crossroads demon we've seen, and she's doing the whole thing where she's crossing and uncrossing her legs and all that stuff because nobody knows [G: Yeah.] how to write evil women on Supernatural.

G: And she's being sexual, and she's saying sexual innuendo. And you know what? A part of me was like, "Wow! I thought the demons were just into Sam and Dean because they thought Sam and Dean were hot, and the show is trying to tell us that Sam and Dean are soo hot [C: That's true.], but no! They also do it to Bobby, who is just fine!" [laughs]

C: Well, they also have Bobby have a love interest this episode, so maybe [G: Ugh. So true.] their point isn't that all demons are sexual, but that Bobby is so hot!

G: Yeah. Is Bobby hot? A question we will never answer. [laughs]

C: Yeah, I mean, I can answer it. [G: Okay, answer it.] No. I don't know. I'm sure Bobby has appeal to some people.

G: You know, people say that the older you get, older people are more attractive to you. [C: Yeah.] And that lady later is, I think, younger than him.

C: I don't know. We'll be able to look up the actress later.

G: Are we?

C: We will. [laughs]

G: Yeah. Or will we? [laughs]

C: What do you think is gonna happen that we won't be able to? We might forget.

G: Yes, I think the main thing would be forgetting. [C: Yeah.] I think the second main thing is [C: Uh-huh?] life in the world as we know it collapsing entirely and IMDb being inaccessible.

C: Okay, you know what? I'm just gonna look up "Marcy Supernatural." She's gonna have a Wiki page where she has the actress's name.

G: [laughs] Okay.

C: The actress is Jennifer Aspen. [G: Hell yeah.] I'm going to find the birth year of Jennifer Aspen. [typing] She was born in 1970, so she is younger than whatever this guy's name is. Jim?

G: Beaver.

C: What's his name?

G: Beaver. [C: Yeah.] That is a fun surname.

C: He was born in 1950, so she is 20 years younger than him.

G: If you're 40 years old, would you want to date a 60-year-old? Question of all time.

C: I'm not 40 years old, so I wouldn't know.

G: Yeah. But at 20 years old, you do want to date a 30 years-old. So it's possible.

C: I don't wanna date a 30-year-old.

G: Yeah, that is true. Well, I want to date a 50-year-old, but let's not talk about it. [both laugh]

C: She'll notice you one day.

-

C: She starts trying to provoke him by bringing up how he killed his wife again and again, and Bobby's just like, "No, I just want to torture you by taking something that's yours"--they don't tell you what it is until the end of the episode--"and lighting it on fire." And she tells him that it's a myth, but he lights the things on fire, and little patches of fire show up on her skin, and she's screaming in pain, etc, etc. And she tells Bobby that Crowley is the king, not of the crossroads, but of all of Hell.

G: Hell, baby! Good for him. Very fun.

C: Then the bell rings, and he goes up, he looks through the peephole of the door, and his neighbor is there, and she-

G: And she's fixing her hair.

C: - and she's arranging her hair to look nicer, [G: Yeah.] and Bobby checks that his breath doesn't smell bad and straightens his clothes a little before he opens the door.

G: Which is fun, yeah.

C: Yeah, I think it's a nice, cute way to show that two people are mutually interested in each other.

G: Yeah. Is this the equivalent of having a crush on your coworker? [C: How so?] No, this is the equivalent of having a crush on your neighbor, which allegedly happens.

C: Yes, which is what's happening.

G: Yeah. She brought a peach cobbler. What is the thing that Karen was into making? It was pie, right?

C: Yeah, it was pie. [G: Yeah.] And Marcy says it isn't just a peach cobbler. It's a ginger peach cobbler.

G: Which sounds wonderful!

C: It does sound fun and good.

G: Yeah, anyway, she brings it over, and, you know, she's like, "Oh, it's really good. It's my specialty!" And she tells Bobby to like, smell it, and then he does, and he's so awkward. But he does give a smile, and he's like, "Mm, very fun." There is screaming in the back [laughs], and he goes, "Oh, yeah, I'm so sorry. I love horror. It's a guilty pleasure of mine." And she's like, "Love it! Love horror! Have you seen Drag Me to Hell?" [both laugh] and he's like, "Well, I'm trying to avoid it," which is also funny. Anyway, she goes, "Well, you know, over the weekend, you can come over to my place. We'll have dinner, and we can watch a movie, and I can whip up my batch of famous white chocolate popcorn!" She's really trying.

C: Yeah, "I'm gonna cook so much 'cause I'm a woman!"

G: Ugh, this is true. But like, how do you invite people to your house? "Have a drink." Don't have drinks. Don't like drinking. "Have some coffee." Hate coffee, more than alcohol! [C: Yeah.] "Have some tea," I guess.

C: Sure, yeah, or it could just be a chips and salsa situation.

G: I don't like salsa. I also don't like chips.

C: You're not Bobby Singer! [both laughing] Why are you talking about this like this?

G: No, this is true. She should have just invited Bobby for some nice whiskey or something.

C: Yeah, I mean, I'm fine with- well, I'm not blaming her as a character. I'm blaming the writers.

G: No, no, yeah. No, but like, this is like that situation where it's like, "Oh, Jimmy was having a crisis, but he's not gay. So how do straight people have crisises?" You know?

C: Ah, yeah. How do women invite people over without cooking? [laughs]

G: No, how do people in general? Like, how do you do it? [C: Yeah.] "Let's watch a movie," I guess, is something.

C: Yeah, I think that's enough. You can just have it during not meal hours, like 2PM, so they have lunch beforehand by themselves.

G: Yeah, this is true. Or you can go out somewhere else that isn't the house. Allegedly people do this.

C: Yeah, I don't think there's that many restaurants in Sioux Falls.

G: Yeah. But he's done so much for the community! Maybe even established a barbecue joint. [C laughs]

C: So true. That's one of his other jobs. We just didn't see it because it wasn't important to his journey?

G: Yeah, it's like, you know, it's like automatic to him. [C: Yeah.] It doesn't even register anymore that he's absolutely killing it at the grill. [C: Yeah.] That is a thing that he does. He grills stuff, right? [C: Yes.] So true. Go Bobby. Anyway, Bobby kind of hesitates, and Marcy's like, "Okay, yeah, well, that's fine. But I also have a woodchipper that's broken, and if you would like, you can come over and look at it, because people say that you're like, handy and stuff," [C laughs] which is very fun. Yeah, and Bobby's like, "Okay, let me see!" Before she leaves, she extends a hand for Bobby to shake, and they're a bit awkward about it.

C: Yeah, 'cause he's holding the cobbler with both hands. [G: Yeah.] So he has to maneuver it.

G: Yeah. As she goes, Bobby closes the door in this like stance, like, thinking about it a little bit. And then he's like, "Okay!" He puts down the cobbler, he heads downstairs, [laughs] he starts screaming, "What's his name?!!" to the demon while blasting it with a flamethrower. We are again faced with the question of all time. What is Supernatural's deal with torture?

C: I mean, didn't we already answer this question? [G: Yeah.] It's that they don't think monsters can be convinced or reasoned with, so the only language that they can understand is pain.

G: I mean, this is a rhetorical question. It's a rhetorical question.

C: Yeah, okay. [laughs]

G: But they really do have a deal with fucking torture is what I'm trying to bring up. [C: Yeah.] She finally reveals that Crowley's name is Fergus MacLeod. The name has been revealed, and the crossroads demon was like, "Okay, well, now, you gotta send me back. It's our deal." But Bobby just holds up the bag. Of what? We'll figure out later. And he's like, "You know what? I gave it my best effort, and I'm still going to burn you alive." And so he does by torching the thing in the thing.

C: Are we supposed to think he was cool for that, or is it like a, "Wow, he's really gone off the rails."

G: The thing is, I think we're supposed to think he's cool because it's not like they make any effort to show us that, like, Bobby's losing it or whatever the fuck. [C: Yeah.] And the thing is, I think we're also supposed to think Sam is cool later for going, "You know what, Dean? We had a deal." So like, what's the situation?

C: That they hate women, maybe?

G: Yeah, I mean, that is the situation. Very obviously this situation. [both laugh] It is fascinating that like, "Oh, we had a deal. But you know what? I'm not gonna respect it." is a sign of strength, but also, "We had a deal, and I will respect it" [C laughs] is also a sign of strength. [laughs] [C: Yeah.] So it's not about the respecting of the deal. It's about the existence of a deal itself, I think, is the thing. I think also-

C: That you're the one with power?

G: Yeah, it's the power of like- But like, you also have the power if you let the deal hold by itself, right? Or I think the point is that with Crowley, I honestly thought this is what Sam was gonna say later. With Crowley, Crowley can do things for them, [C: Yeah.] but this demon is dispensable, I think, is the situation. So it's like, why would I- With Crowley, if we let him go now then, it's like, he owes us. Versus this demon, yeah, she owes us. But like, who the fuck cares because we don't need her? I think, is the vibe. [C: Uh-huh.] Horrible!

C: Bobby is doing some research on Scotland in general.

G: Literally just Scotland. [laughs]

C: He picks up a call from Garth! [G: Yeah.] Who we haven't met yet.

G: Yeah, it's Garth reveal. Hi, Garth! Love Garth.

C: Yeah, and it's a fun little bit where he's like, "This doesn't sound like a vampire. You should call the FBI." And then [laughs] he immediately gets a call on his fake FBI phone and it's Garth. [G laughs]

G: And Bobby goes, "Not me, idjit, like the real FBI! I wonder how you're still alive by now!" [C: Yeah.] I do love that he was just researching Scotland. It's like when Sam looked up vampires. So real.

C: Yeah, so real. [laughs] It's where to start. Yeah, he's picking up a bunch of different phones where he's being an FBI guy, a CDC guy. [G: Yeah.] Female hunter mention where, at some point, while picking up a phone, he goes, "Of course she's one of ours, and if she says she's gotta dig that grave up, you better damn well let her."

G: Feminism. [C: Slay.] I do love this scene, and I think it's quite evocative. The visual of having all the phones there. I am a bit sad that Jensen Ackles, the director of this episode, did not linger on the visual of it because it's good. It's a good look. Maybe it did linger on it, and I just wasn't looking. That is also a possibility.

C: No, but you mean sort of a wide shot [G: Yes.] with the montage where he's moving around, hitting different phones at different times. That would be fun.

G: Yeah, like, have like a shot that is the phones that is not focusing on Bobby, but focusing on the phones, I would have enjoyed. And they do do that later in the show when it's Sam and Dean's turn to be those people, where it's like just a bunch of flip phones, and it's like, "Oh, yeah, FBI," which is very fun. And like, that is- I mean, this scene, like, it's fun, but the value of it for me is it showcases what Bobby's role is in the community. He really is a pillar in the hunting community, which is very fun, and also, the fact that they bring up this virtual again later on with Sam and Dean as they now become a pillar of the hunting community, now that Bobby is gone. [C: Yeah.] It is like, fascinating to think about the fact that Sam and Dean have this such loyalty to the hunter brand when they have like, actually quite little connections in the hunting life. Like, you know. I think it is telling that John brought them up in this lifestyle or culture and environment but also made them pretty much not intermingle with anyone who is also that lifestyle and environment. You know what I mean? [C: Uh-huh.] And I do think if they had more hunter friends, they would ease up a bit. [laughs] Like, maybe they'd calm down, you know?

C: Yeah, they would unclench.

G: Yeah, unclench a bit. And I think the times in the show where we have seen the concept of a bigger hunter commune is with Ellen and Jo's bar-

C: The Roadhouse, yeah.

G: The Roadhouse. I'm so sorry. I completely forgot the word for it! That's so sad!

C: Yeah. Do you hate women?

G: [sadly] No. [both laugh] I don't. But yeah, so we have the Roadhouse, we have this Bobby thing, and I suppose we'll see it later on in the show.

C: Someone starts pounding on the door, and it's Rufus! [G: Yeah!] Iconic scene, I think we've all seen it, where he's like, leaning on the doorframe, out of breath, and he goes, "Oh, good. You're home. Listen! You gotta help me bury a body."

G: And Bobby's just staring at him like, "What the fuck is up with this guy?" Yeah. This scene is wonderful. It is iconic. And yeah, love Rufus! It's the first time we're seeing him since the beginning of Season 5 if I'm correct, right? I am correct. [C: Yeah.] 5.02? [C: Stupid-ass episode.] I think, because in the past, we have established that Rufus and Bobby are kind of like a- they're mad at each other, but jokingly, but also not jokingly, which is a fun dynamic. [C: Yeah.] And you know, what we've seen of Rufus and Bobby- Okay, let's do a like, timeline of Rufus and Bobby from what we've seen in the show so far. We have, like, Bobby telling Dean, "Go to Rufus. He'll help you."

C: Yeah, Season 3.

G: Yeah. And Dean being like, "Hi, Bobby sent me" and Rufus being like, "Okay, well, then, fuck off," which is very fun. [C: Yeah.] We have "If you call again, I'll kill you." [laughs] [C: Aww.] and then Rufus calling again immediately. [C: Yeah.] We have, "And Rufus? Take care of yourself." Ah! Love it. [C: Yes.] And then we have this. And I do think, like, it is a consistent-

C: Was there anything else? I think throughout Season 4 or 5, Bobby was like talking to Rufus about apocalyptic signs a few times.

G: Yeah, but I don't think we actively would see it, right? A lot of the times, it's Bobby saying, "Yeah, Rufus said." But I think the phone calls I mentioned and you mentioned are the ones that we really see them talking. [C: Right.]  don't know. I think it is an interesting dynamic of like, antagonistic friends. So important. [C: Yeah.] And they are friends! Look at them!

-

C: In Bobby's scrapyard- and yeah, so Rufus brought some body over because police were chasing him, and they rib each other about like, "Oh, you're getting slow!" "Oh, I'm getting slow? All you do is sit on your ass all day taking calls." And we see the body, and she's Asian!

G: It's an Asian woman! She's literally Asian, and it's because she's a Japanese monster. It's literally the reason. [C: Yes.] And I mean, I do find it hilarious that they were like, "Oh, we need-" I mean, it's better than having a white woman play it, I guess. [laughs]

C: Yeah, which they've done a lot of times.

G: But also, like, again, we come up to the whole thing where it's like, you only have an Asian person to be an Asian monster or whatever. Or like, you know, having the-

C: Yeah, this monster is an okami, which I think is just "wolf" in Japanese and not like, a creature. So yeah, she has these sharp teeth or whatever. They're both surprised at this because the only time Bobby has ever seen an okami was in Japan, and that also tracks with Sam and Dean hunting something that's usually only in Greece in Wisconsin. So Bobby has a mechanical digger, which can dig a hole for the okami very easily. [G: Love it.] And we get Jewish Rufus confirmation where he's looking at it, and he goes, "Man, I know what I want for Hanukkah." Love it! They bury the body, and they're chatting about the whole Crowley situation. [G: Yeah.] And Bobby says that what he's gonna pursue is that Crowley said in the beginning that he liked Craig, and that he'd been drinking it since he was in grade school, which means that he probably grew up where Craig was made. And Rufus immediately is like, "Oh my god! I know everything about Craig. It's only made and sold in a tiny area on the north tip of Caithness County," and he starts going into like, you know, wine tasting people's descriptions [G: The notes, yeah.] of what alcohol tastes like. And he's like, "I'm not a heathen. I obviously know what Craig is, you dumbass!"

G: So true. [C: So true.] Rufus- when Bobby sent Dean to Rufus, he told him to get a Blue Label, right? [C: Yeah.] That already happened, right? That was in Season 3. [C: Yeah.] And also, when he dies, they pour a whole bottle- whole bottle?! Dude. [laughs] Give a half to yourself, is my opinion. Does Sam and Dean have like, hobbies similar to this? Well, I suppose Sam has serial killers.

C: Cars? One car.

G: Car. Serial killers. [C laughs] What else?

C: I mean, Dean's music is sort of a hobby, [G: Oh, yeah.] especially the fact that he knows trivia about Led Zep.

G: I think pop culture is Dean's hobby. He loves a TV show, movie, a song. [C: Yeah.] A book. He reads. [laughs] Aesop, etc.

C: Yeah, The Odyssey too.

G: What are Sam's interests? He loves serial killers. [C laughs] [C: Yeah.] He loves being vegan, but they never say it. He loves being secretive about the fact that he's vegan, but also very explicitly open about it, just never saying the word, that's a hobby.

C: Uh-huh. He loves doing it, so much. Sam doesn't have a lot of-

G: He loves lore.

C: Yeah, I guess that's a hobby.

G: Yeah. What else are Sam's hobbies?

C: Nothing.

G: He loves a Dewey decimal system, but that's just us projecting.

C: Yeah. Projecting? I don't love the Dewey decimal system.

G: Well, I do love to do a decimal system.

C: You're projecting on Sam and me.

G: Well, he would grow plants after Dean dies, but also again, that's just us, I think. [laughs] Is that true? Or do we see him grow plants when Dean is dead?

C: I don't rember. Well, I haven't seen it also.

G: You haven't seen. [laughs] I was viciously reminded of Jared Padalecki's wig at the finale of Supernatural recently. [C: Yeah.] What a horrible thing they do to Sam Winchester, even. [C laughs] Maybe he's into bag wigs. yeah.

C: Rufus tells Bobby, "You know I have contacts over there in Scotland. I can make a few calls." And Bobby says, "I ain't asking for no help." And Rufus says, "I ain't asking for your permission." They're in wuv!

-

G: Bobby is allegedly about to eat a piece of his cobbler, but then he is stopped by Dean calling him. And Dean's like, "Okay, well, what's the other way to kill a lamia?" And Bobby's like, "Well, did the first one not work?" And Dean's like, "Well, no. So what do we do?" And then Bobby says what they should do, but as he's saying it, there's a massive knock on the door, and Bobby's trying to hold him off, but eventually he had to let them in because it's the cops, including Jody. Well, it's Jody and some other guy. Bobby does this thing where he's like, "Oh, I'm talking to my mom," which is very fun. [C: Yeah.] "Just wait a minute. I'm guiding my mom through cooking." And then he goes back to the phone and he's like, "Okay, well find salt and rosemary, and really cook it well-done" or something. [C laughs] Yeah. And then he goes, "Is it okay now? Okay, well, have a have a fun roast, mom!" [laughs] Would Bobby's mom still be alive? I think so, yeah.

C: Yeah. Well, I don't know. He's 61.

G: In her 80s, probably.

C: She's be 90 or in her 80s, yeah.

G: I mean, allegedly. She's probably dead.

C: Yeah, she's probably dead. I thought it was sweet that he stayed on the phone until he knew for sure [G: Yeah, it was done.] that the lamia was dead.

G: Well, the last time Dean hung up on him, it didn't work, [C: True.] so by the process of elimination, it is Bobby that killed that thing.

C: Yeah. I can't believe that he said the easiest way was a silver knife blessed by a priest when like, you can just get salt and rosemary from the grocery store!

G: How do you get a priest who is maybe not aware of what that silver knife is supposed to do to bless your silver knife?

C: Just be like, "This was my dad's favorite knife, and he died recently" or some shit?

G: Do you think that's gonna work?

C: I don't know. You're the Catholic.

G: My first idea was that they would have- They have a car, so they'll be like, "Oh, our car is new. It's vintage. We just bought it. We want it blessed," which is something people do. People get car blessings. And so they have the car there, and then they put the knife in the car, and then the priest blesses the car, and it will in turn bless the knife.

C: Will it?

G: I don't know. The intentionality is, in fact- [C: Yeah.] But you know, when you bless a car, you open everything.

C: So he sees the one million guns they have.

G: No, I'm assuming they would put that compartment down. But if they put the knife somewhere that a bit of it is peeking out like of the seat or something, but it's still obstructed, and the priest does the holy water, it will touch the knife, and will therefore bless it. What do you think?

C: Sure, why not? [both laugh]

G: Honestly, I don't think it works like that. I think there needs to be an intentionality behind blessing this specific thing. But you know what? It could be possible.

C: Yeah, I guess it was the flamethrower aspect of it that was harder, but they just had one.

G: Yeah. Do you think they do mass blessing to weapons? At this point, just have every weapon blessed, right?

C: True. Does it ever wear off?

G: I don't know. I mean, does holy water wear off?

C: Yeah. It evaporates.

G: Not if you bottle it. Oh, this is true. But would the vapor be holy? [laughs]

C: Well, the vapor would be in the air and not on the weapon.

G: Would the particles itself- This is a separate conversation.

C: Oh, like, do demons walk through the world, and occasionally they go, "Ow!"

G: "Ow! Owie!" Yeah, because there's a concentration of holy vapor.

C: Yeah. Probably.

G: So fun! Love it. Anyway, that's all said and done. Bobby greets these cops and what they're saying is, they put up a sketch of Rufus, and they're like, "Okay, well, did you see this guy? His name is Rufus Turner, aka Luther Vandros, aka Ruben Studdard." And Bobby's like, "Nah, I've never seen that dick." [laughs]

C: Love is real!

G: The cop is like, "How do you know he's a dick, then?" and Bobby goes, "I don't know. I just think maybe he is." [C laughs] And the guy cop is like, "Well, people saw him carrying a body over here. So what's that about?" And Bobby's like, "Look, man, that's soo ridiculous!" And Jody steps in, and she's like, "You know what? Me and this guy, we have a relationship." And she says she's been arresting him for ten years now, so why don't we just separate, and you investigate outside, and I investigate inside. And the cop's like, "Okay, fine." And as soon as the cop goes out, Bobby goes, "Why did you let him go out there?" And Jody says, "Well, I think it would be better if he was out there than in here. I don't think you want him in here." And Bobby goes, "Well, yeah, because I have a body in the basement. But I also have a body in the yard!" [C laughs] Jody is like, "Oh, fuck! Damn it!" And so they go out and they pace about, and they see the guy, and the guy's like, "Bobby, there's a giant fucking hole [C laughs] in the yard. What's that about?" And Bobby's like-

C: But it's empty.

G: Yeah, it is empty. I actually couldn't figure out what they were trying to tell me until later. The hole is empty. I thought they just did a bad job of like, putting the dirt back in the hole.

C: But we saw it completely smooth over it earlier?

G: Is that true?

C: Yeah.

G: Okay, well, that's my fault. My bad, even.

G: Bobby's like, "Oh, yeah, I did a septic tank thing, so watch where you step!" He calls Rufus like, "Rufus, this thing is dead!" Or, well, "This thing is not dead!" [C laughs] Rufus is-they start going back and forth on if Rufus did the proper methods of killing so that this thing will actually be dead. And Bobby's like, "Did you use a bamboo dagger?" Rufus goes, "Yes." "Blessed by a Shinto priest?" And Rufus is like, "I'm not fucking stupid, Bobby!" And Bobby goes, "Did you stab it seven times?" And Rufus goes, "Well, I stabbed it five times." And Bobby's like, "It's supposed to be seven!" And Rufus is like, "No, it's supposed to be five." But anyway, this thing is alive because Rufus forgot two stabs. [C: Yeah.] [C laughs] Bobby asks, "When you found it, what was it doing?" And Rufus said it was feeding on, you know, single white females, usually while they sleep.

C: [laughing] Incredibly funny, incredibly funny. They're usually in Japan. How do they survive off of this diet?

G: No. What Bobby is saying is like, what were they doing when you found it? Not necessarily like, "This is their diet. What's their diet?"

C: Okay, yeah, this is a special one, and it had to come here all the way from Japan because it wanted to eat white women so bad.

G: No, the point is like, "What is the modus operandi of this specific thing?"

C: Yeah! [G: Yeah.] Which I think it's funny that they wrote it to be this.

G: I mean, it is hilarious that they wrote it this way specifically so Bobby can go to his girlfriend's house.

C: Yeah, like, I feel like she doesn't need to be specifically into single white females. Like, I think just the fact that this is your neighbor and it escaped from your property is enough. You could be like, "I saw some tracks" or whatever.

G: Yeah, like, Bobby could be like walking around, looking for a clue to where this went off, and he sees that like, there's a track going to the house or something. [C: Yeah.] Well, that's how it happens.

C: Have we ever had a monster who was only after, like- besides the racist truck [both laugh]- a specific racial or gender group?

G: Well, there's the gay gorgon who was going after gay men.

C: Well, we haven't had him yet.

G: Yeah, but he's iconic, so I thought I should mention him.

C: Alright. Thank you for mentioning him because he's iconic. I just feel like they really went out of their way to do this, and it's silly to me.

G: No, I mean, yeah, they did go out of their way to do this, and it is silly to you and me.

-

C: So we're now in Marcy's house, and she's preparing to go to sleep, but there's like a shadow crossing the window, and then Bobby fucking kicks in her door. He says that she needs to show him where her bedroom is, and he's swinging around a gun and checking everywhere, and she's like, "I'm trying to be chill about this, but what the fuck is going on?" And Bobby asks if she's seen anything weird, and then she notices the okami on the ceiling about to jump at her. And there's a whole fight thing where Bobby's wrestling with the okami a bunch and crashes out of a window into the outside, and they're still fighting, etc, etc. And then they're at the woodchipper, and he accidentally hits the power button, and it turns on, working completely fine, and during the fight, he is able to shove the okami into the woodchipper, and she gets destroyed.

G: Yeah, and Bobby gets sprayed with blood, but then we go to Marcy, and she's completely drenched. It is a fun look, and she's in a white nightgown.

C: She sure is. They're both a little bit in shock, and Bobby goes, "I thought your chipper was broken." And Marcy goes, "I just said that to get you over here." And Bobby says, "I guess I could come over for dinner some night. It might be fun." [laughs] And Marcy just goes, "I don't think so."

G: You know what who would have said yes? [C: Who?] The woman from "Dead Pig Collector," a very fun short story. You guys should check it out. [laughs]

C: From what?

G: No, I'm just promoting it. What? What do you mean?

C: Oh, who wrote it?

G: Warren Ellis, I think. Wait, let's see.

C: It's called "Dead Pig Collector"? [G: Yes.] Okay. Yeah, I see.

G: By Warren Ellis. Very fun!

C: Yeah, and Bobby says, "Story of my life," which did annoy me.

-

G: Bobby calls Rufus now, and Rufus is like, "Wow, I can't believe you're still alive." And Bobby's like, "Yeah, well, I killed it. So fuck you." And Rufus asks-

C: Yeah, he also calls the okami "Godzilla."

G: Is that supposed to be a thing?

C: Well, I guess it's a Japanese monster.

G: Do people think of Godzilla as a Japanese monster?

C: It's a kaiju, isn't it?

G: Yeah, but then like, that's just some guy at this point. Is Godzilla so tied to culture? [laughs]

C: Well, to Rufus, it is.

G: Yeah. Isn't there Godzilla vs. King Kong? Isn't that a thing? [C: Probably.] Yeah, what the fuck is that about? [laughs]

C: I think Godzilla probably fights King Kong.

G: No, but like, is it an underdog story? Like, King Kong is the underdog?

C: I don't know what King Kong is like.

G: King Kong's a giant gorilla.

C: What's Godzilla then? Oh, it's a lizard thing! Godzilla is sort of a dinosaur-looking thing?

G: Yeah, like a giant lizard that is a dinosaur. Yeah, love it. Do you love Godzilla? Yes or no. 5. 4. 3. 2-

C: I've never seen anything. I mean, I didn't even know who Godzilla was briefly.

G: I do think he's removed enough from the concept of being Japanese for this joke to be a thing. Although now that I think about it, why else would they make it?

C: Yeah. [both laugh]

G: And also, this was in 2010, so maybe the concept of Godzilla is less pronounced in pop culture. Anyway, Rufus asked, "Oh, so you just happened to have a bamboo dagger blessed by a Shinto priest?" And Bobby goes, "No, I shoved her through a woodchipper." And Rufus goes, "Oh, okey-dokey! Well, woodchipper, that trumps everything," which is pretty fun, and does remind me of when Rufus was like, "I'm gonna blow their legs off!" and Dean or something was like, "That's not gonna kill them," and he goes, "Well, they can't run if they don't have legs." Rufus thanks Bobby and apologizes. He says, "I screwed up."

C: Okay, Bobby says, "Forget it. I figure I still owe you more than you owe me," which is a reference to a thing we never learn in canon, which is that Bobby is partly responsible for Rufus's daughter's death. Right?

G: Is that true?

C: Yeah, there's a bonus content thing where-

G: I mean, I know that. But like, is that really what this statement means?

C: I think so. I think it's about their past. It felt loaded.

G: Yeah, Rufus does do a "Hm." about it, so maybe.

C: Yeah. It's so sad that that never makes its way into the show in actuality. And they kill him. So it's not like they were like, "We'll reveal this later down the line in the Bobby/Rufus story" and then they forgot. Rufus takes a moment to process those words, and then he goes, "Okay. Well, you owe me another thing because I have a lead on Crowley. His full name is Fergus Roderick MacLeod. He was born in Canisbay, Scotland in 1661, and he had a son named Gavin."

G: After Caravaggio and Shakespeare. So true.

C: So true. The son was the captain of a trading ship that sank in 1723 off the coast of Massachusetts, so he has a ring that is inside a maritime museum of Andover, and Bobby says, "I need that ring." and Rufus goes, "Are you asking for my help, Bob?" Very cute. [G: So true.] And Bobby very reluctantly says, "I'm asking for a ring, and I'd appreciate your help getting it." The world's best proposal.

G: They're engaged! They're about to get married! So true. [C: So true.] Bobby said, "Marry me a little." Is that a funny joke, or is it so corny? [laughs]

C: I don't know.

G: I think if I committed to saying it, it would be.

C: I think Dean and Lisa are sort of the "Marry Me a Little" relationship.

G: No, because his name is Bobby, and he's saying, "I'm asking for a ring."

C: Okay, I see, I see. Yeah, okay, yeah. It's a funny joke. I'm sorry I didn't get it. That's on me.

G: Thank you. You were too invested in the plot of Company to realize the incredibly shallow joke I made.

C: Silly me.

-

C: Rufus is already heading to Andover to get this ring, and Supernatural thinks we're stupid, so he has him exposit to Bobby that "Oh, so your plan is to get the ring and summon Gavin's ghost in order to exchange hostages with Crowley, so that you can have your soul back!" Bobby says, "Yeah, something like that." He is trying to eat the cobbler again, where he takes it out of the fridge, but then the phone rings, and he's so sad. And Dean called-

G: Just eat it while the call is happening, just like me in the podcast and you in the podcast.

C: I don't get it. And me in the podcast! I love to snack during the podcast.

G: No, yeah, it is incredibly funny when I'm editing the podcast, and I start speaking in a way that will imply that I will speak for a long time, and then I hear a crinkle of snacks from your end. [both laugh]

C: Yeah, I mean, it's always first thing in the morning for me, so I usually haven't eaten before. [G: So true.] I got hungry during. But yeah, so Dean's like, "Yeah, the case is fine, Bobby. But it's Saaam!" [both laugh] And Bobby looks up, kind of annoyed. [G: So true.] And he's like, "Something's different about Sam, he's not right-"

G: Honestly, this is a hilarious scene. I mean, it is a hilarious scene. I don't think it's supposed to be funny. It is funny, though.

C: I think it's supposed to be a little bit funny with the whole Sam looking at Dean being like, "Ugh. Okay!" during Bobby yelling at them.

G: I do find it so amusing that like, if you're not like fully invested in the Sam and Dean story, and you're just like, a bypasser in a way- Like, Bobby is invested, but also, he's not like in the day-to-day like we are as an audience, how ridiculous it all sounds. [C: Yeah.] [laughs] Like all their drama? So fucking true. Now, I'm thinking about like when Ellen was like, "Okay, so what's up with you two?" and being like, "Okay, fine, here we go again."

C: Yeah, yeah. I mean, she thought that they were both fighting for the same woman or something, so yeah, to her, whatever their drama is, it seems very frivolous to her.

G: Yeah. Literally. And it probably is. [C: Yeah.] What was happening when she said that? Sam just-

C: Sam's demon blood thing.

G: Oh, yeah and opening the gates or whatever.

C: Dean wouldn't let him hunt.

G: Not the gate, the Cage.

C: That was in Season 2. They didn't know about the Cage yet. This was specifically in 5.02, right? So it was that Dean wouldn't let Sam go outside to hunt on his own.

G: Oh yeah, because of the demon blood. [C: Yeah.] So true.

C: So it was about that.

G: It was about Ruby. Oh, that is the implication that they're doing. Like, they're fighting over a woman-

C: Yeah, but in a different way than Ellen thinks. [G: Yeah.] Dean's like, "Ugh, I know he's been through so much, and he changed, but like, something's wrong, Bobby!" And someone starts calling Bobby, specifically Rufus, and Bobby's trying to cut this short. But Dean's all like, "Can you tell me everything about what Sam was like during the year while he was away?" [G laughs] And Bobby is just like, "Dean, no. I have another call." And he goes, "You what??"

G: Yeah, he puts Dean on hold, and Dean is so bitter, upset, sad, crying, throwing up.

C: Bobby says, "I have to take this. It's important." And Dean scoffingly laughs and goes, "More important than Sam???"

G: It's literally Bobby, Dean. Bobby doesn't give a fuck. [C laughs] And the thing is like, it is not urgent. It is a conversation that can have a pause, you know?

C: It can happen at any time.

G: This is not something that is- The thing is, to be perfectly clear, Bobby didn't hang up. He put Dean on hold, which means that he is committing to going back to this conversation. And if Dean later on wasn't like, "Oh, yeah, Bobby. Never mind, then. Fuck you!" like, Bobby would have continued that fucking call.

C: Yeah, I mean, Dean's just meant to be extremely selfish right now in order to cause Bobby to snap, so these are all things that the writers agree with. It's about how Dean doesn't think about how Bobby has other hunters that he's in contact with. He thinks that he's so special, so he can't imagine that anything could be time-sensitive for him, etc.

G: Yeah. You know what should have happened at some point in Supernatural? [C: Yeah.] While Sam and Dean are visiting Bobby, there happens to be two other hunters that are visiting Bobby that are around their age, [C laughs] and they realize that Bobby has so many like, "like a kid to me" people in his life. [C laughs] It will be hilarious. Dean would literally cry and throw up.

C: Oh, absolutely. In "Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid," he was like, "Karen, I hate you, and Bobby's like a father to me! [G laughs] So I don't know why you're up in my business trying to control his life." even though she was like a wife to him, so this is a pretty consistent characterization.

G: So true. Hilarious.

C: So it's Rufus on the phone, and he's driving very fast. There are police chasing him because he stole that ring from the museum, and he's like, "I have to hide this ring!" and Bobby says, "Don't swallow it!" and he says, "I'm swallowing it!" And he does.

G: And it's so cute because it's not like he didn't hear Bobby well. It was more like Bobby going, "Don't swallow it" gave him the idea that he can swallow it, and so he does! [C laughs] So true and so important.

C: Yeah, they are in wuv. And the rest of this, we only hear from Bobby's perspective, they didn't shoot this, but the police catch up to Rufus, and he says something about how the police are using unnecessary force, and that he knows his rights. And Bobby hangs up and goes back to Dean.

G: I did wonder here about like the concept of a, you know, a Black hunter like Rufus, [C: Yeah.] and the types of leeways that Sam and Dean get for being white men. [C: Yeah.] I mean, Rufus was retired for a long time, or at least retired on the hunting side of hunting. He was on the research, as he said.

C: Yes. I have also wondered this, but I don't think I really have anything to say. [G: Yeah.] Except that I do think that him like pointing out the force, and that he knows his rights is something that I hadn't heard Sam and Dean say, and it seems like something that he did like, I don't know. You know-

G: This is more conscious thought about it, yeah.

C: Yeah. Yeah, I guess these weren't the same people who wrote last episode, or are they? Who wrote last episode? Bedlund. [G: Bedlund.] I don't know how much they coordinate, but this is two police brutality against Black people mentions [G: Yeah, they're back-to-back.] back-to-back in this season, so yeah. I wonder if they talked about this amongst themselves at all while writing.

G: If I were to place a bet, I would say no. [laughs]

C: Yeah. Yeah. Just a coinkydink.

G: Bobby is like, "Okay, well, Rufus is being arrested." He goes back to Dean, and Dean is like, "Bobby, what the hell??" [both laugh] That is what he sounded like. And he's like, "You know what? You're the one person I can talk to about this stuff. I'm so stressed out about everything. There's Sam, and there's Lisa and Ben. I don't even know what to do anymore! And you won't even listen to me?"

C: He says that he's the only person he can talk to about leaving Lisa and Ben, which is also the language [G: Not true.] I think Sam used last episode about Dean joining him on hunting. Like, did I totally misunderstand 6.02? Isn't he literally just on a business trip?

G: I think- you know what? When you were saying that, halfway through, I thought what you were gonna say is "Has Sam convinced Dean that this is, in fact, leaving Lisa and Ben?"

C: Or, I don't know. I guess I was more wondering if Dean told Sam that it- phrased it in a way that made it seem like it was more permanent.

G: No, but like, if you remember, the start of that scene is Dean-

C: He is on the phone with Ben, yeah.

G: - telling Ben off in a way that is very much like he is still solidly a part of Ben's life. So like, I think it was explained well to Sam.

C: Yeah. So like, why are they saying leaving?

G: Well, Sam got into Dean's head. [both laugh]

C: So true. He's not coming back anymore. [G: Yeah.] Except when he's a vampire. I know that happens.

G: Only when he's a vampire. Any other situation, he's not coming back. [C: Yeah.]

As Dean is going on this retort, Bobby just does the Kubrick stare, and like, you know, he goes, "Okay, well, I hear you, Dean, but now, it's not a good time." And Dean just goes, "Yeah? You know what? Forget it. I mean, I'm baring my soul like a freaking girl here! [laughs] And you've got stuff to do, so that's fine. But seriously, a little selfish. It's not all about you, Bobby." [both laugh] He's hilarious.

C: They really ham it up here.

G: In fairness, he is incredibly funny.

C: I don't think Dean would say this. [laughs]

G: Yeah. Anyway, Bobby just goes like, "Okay, well, where's your brother?" And then they put him on speaker, Dean calls Sam, and now they're listening to Bobby deliver his angry monologue. He goes, "Well, I love you both like you're my own, I do. But sometimes, you two are the whiniest, most self-absorbed sons of bitches I've ever met!" And you know, he's like, "I can't believe you call me selfish when you two are so fucking annoying." True. "I dig up so much lore for you two, and I pulled you out of fires, and when you need someone to bitch about about each other"--[both laugh] and then Sam hears this and looks up at Dean like, "The fuck? That's what you were doing?" [C laughs] And Bobby is like, "You call me, and I come through, and just for this once, you won't even give me whatever. Anything." And he says, "You guys are not the center of the universe," which will be disproven by the show, [C: Yeah.] "But in case it slipped your mind, Crowley has my soul, and time is running out, and I will be damned if I'm going to sit around and be damned." And he goes, "Well, how about you two help me for once?" And Sam goes, "Bobby, all you gotta do is ask." [both laugh] I can't believe Sam is being included in this! He did nothing wrong. [C: Yeah.] This is Dean's fault.

C: Yeah, I don't know, man. Maybe Sam was really annoying during that year, and Bobby's just been building up to this for him, too.

G: Literally. Do you remember that one time when Sam was drinking, and he was like, "Bobby, I think I'm gonna throw myself into the pit."

C: Yeah. [laughs]

G: Bobby has resented him ever since that conversation.

C: So true. Dean says, "Anything you need, we're there."

G: Yeah, which is how Bobby manages to guilt Dean into going to Scotland via plane.

C: Yeah. Hell yeah. So the next day, he meets up with Jody, and yeah, she says that Marcy called the police and she told her that she'd look into the home invasion but didn't file a report. That seems quite mean. Like, Marcy saw the okapi. Or sorry, the okami? Yeah. Marcy saw the okami. [G: Yeah.] I feel like Jody should probably just explain it to her.

G: I mean, not only saw the okami, saw the okami go through a fucking woodchipper. Like, what's going on?

C: I don't know. But yeah, they don't care. 'Cause what Bobby needs is a favor for his boy best friend!

G: He did not let go.

C: Rufus is being held in Massachusetts on a burglary charge, and he needs Jody to extradite him for a murder charge. And this is, you know, Bobby, reaching out and asking for help more, that's his arc, as you've mentioned, and Jody's like, "That is not going to happen. It's so hard. I would have to call in all my favors. And how are you going to help him escape from being here under a murder charge? This is going to ruin my career." And Bobby's like, "Pwease?? Yeah, I've done a lot for this town, including things you don't know about, and I'm not good at this asking for help thing, but pwease?" And Jody says, "Sorry. I can't." And he's very sad in his house, and then there's a knock, and Jody's there, with Rufus! And Rufus goes, "Miss me?" Ah! I love love. [G: Love it.] Jody says that they have one hour, and then she's going to call the Feds and say that Rufus escaped. And Bobby goes, "Thank you." And Rufus produces the ring, which I guess he shat out at some point, and Bobby is off to clean it.

-

G: Bobby summons the son of Crowley, and this dude's name is Gavin. But later on, and honestly, until now, I mean, honestly, I thought his name was Kevin. [both laugh] Because the entire time, I thought Crowley was calling him Kevin. But no, his name is, in fact, Gavin. It would be incredibly funny to be a guy from the 1660s or whatever- well, I suppose 1670s?- and be named Kevin. Bobby starts talking to this guy, but we don't hear what's happening, and it's like, ominous on what's going on. But then we go to Bobby summoning Crowley. And Crowley allegedly looks bad, but I think he looks completely fine. And Bobby goes, "Well, you look like hammer crap," and Crowley goes, "And you're a vision as always." Love is real! [C: Yeah.] They do this with Dean and Cas, too, in a way that I find completely amusing. I think it was Season 10 after Dean goes back to human from being a demon. Cas goes in, he's like, "Well, you look like crap." And Dean goes, "You, on the other hand, looking good!" or whatever. Incredibly funny.

C: Yeah, I've seen this.

G: Yeah. Are they gay? Question of all time.

C: Yeah. [laughs]

G: They are? Or it's a question of all time?

C: Well, I don't know. That's for you to find out.

G: Yeah. Well, happy November 5 to everyone who celebrated, including meee! Crowley is like, right under a devil's trap, and basically, Crowley talks about how he has trouble in paradise because it's so difficult to run Hell. Crowley goes, "You know what the problem with demons is? They're demons. Evil, lying rats, the whole lot of them. And stupid. You try to show them a new, better way, and they don't want it!" So, you know, etc. He says that maybe Lucifer was right when he wanted to kill every demon in the world. Bobby shows like, the kid. Gavin. [laughs] The kid is a grown man. He's just Gavin to Crowley. And then Crowley goes, "Kevin?" [both laugh] He goes, "Kevin, is that you?" And he starts putting on the dramatics like, "Oh, I love you so much! I miss you! I can't believe it!" but then he laughs, and he's like, "Well, sorry, Bobby. I don't actually give a shit about this kid." I think he says "I loathe the little bastard." So true and so fun. What if the kid has bad vibes?

C: - was had out of wedlock?

G: Yeah. He says, "You picked the wrong bargaining chip, Bobby." But Bobby goes, "Well, what I actually did was that I digged up some dirt on you, and your kid, Gavin, really helped me out with this one because he loathes you more than you loathe him." And you know, Crowley goes, "What did you tell him?" Kevin goes, "Everything!" Bobby says that Crowley was, as you said, a tailor who sold his soul for an extra three inches on his dick. And Crowley goes, "Well, I'm just trying to hit double digits." So true! [C: Real.] Bobby also says, "And I know where you're buried." And he calls Dean, and Dean's like, "Hi, Crowley! We're in Scotland right now." And we pan over to Sam and Dean, who are in Scotland right now, and there's a castle behind them so you know they're in Scotland right now, and they're digging up a grave, and they go, "Oh, we've gone international. In fact, we're in your neck of the woods." Do you need a visa to go to the UK?

C: I don't know. [muttering, typing] No.

G: No?

C: No.

G: Oh, you are permitted to go without a visa! That's cool as hell! Dean asks like, "Did you really used to wear a skirt?" Crowley goes, "I had very athletic calves." Anyway, they explain that what they're doing is they're digging up his bones, and they're going to burn that thing. And Crowley says, "Well, it's a myth. You can't kill me by burning my bones." But Bobby goes, "I know an employee of yours that would disagree," and then we flash back to the demon and realize that what's inside those bag? Human bones, and they're her bones, and Bobby burned them to kill her. RIP! Bobby has this speech about how like, "You think you're so special? You're just a ghost, but worse!" Anyway, Dean [laughs] does this thing where he's like, flicking the lighter over and over again. And then he goes, "You hear that, Crowley? That's me flicking my BIC for you." And I went, "Ew!" [C: Yeah.] Kind of disgusting. But okay. Eventually, Crowley accepts his fate, and he lets Bobby go from his contract. And Bobby makes a comment about leaving the thing with the legs in, and he does. "Pleasure doing business with you."

C: Sam and Dean are still in Scotland, and Crowley has teleported towards them. Dean's like, "Maybe I'll just light your bones on fire anyway!" But Sam closed the lighter, and he goes, "Dean, he's a dick, but a deal's a deal." And Crowley tells Sam like, "Fuck you. I don't need you to fight my battles for me." I think that's supposed to be another hint that Sam is soulless, because his whole thing before was that he hates Crowley so much and wants to kill him every second they're together. Crowley disappears, and they do a shot of Scotland, where they pan out to the castle and like, the woods and shit. [laughs] [G: So true.] Don't know why.

G: I mean, they don't know how to show anything. [laughs] I do think the bit where Dean is driving on the other side is very fun.

C: Right. So Dean's driving on the wrong side of the road. He's on the phone with Bobby, and Bobby says, "Thank you for doing that, especially because I know you hate flying." Dean's like, "No, it's cool. I love riling up Crowley and shit." And Sam says that Dean was so nervous and puked four times, and Dean says that if some nut job decided to try something, he was going to attack them with a fork. [laughs] So Dean's afraid of flying because he thinks 9/11 is going to happen again? It's not because it's just like, it's really high up in the air??

G: Is that what it implies?

C: He says that what he was afraid of was like, somebody trying to attack him, right?

G: Yeah.

C: So I thought 1.04, he was just saying that humans aren't supposed to be that high up or something.

G: Yeah. But now they're like, "He's afraid because he's afraid that someone's going to be a terrorist in the plane"?

C: Yeah.

G: I thought what they were doing here was that, "Oh, yeah, Dean's afraid of flying, and it's made him paranoid in all other aspects."

C: That could be it.

G: Yeah. Just like when you were flying, and I was like, "What if the plane crashes or Crystal chokes on a cracker or something?" [C laughing] So true.

C: Those Biscoffs are really dry, and I don't like them. I know that's not a popular opinion, but I don't like Biscoffs. I think they're bad.

G: I like them. I'll eat them.

C: Okay. I'll bring them all to you.

G: Thank you.

C: Bobby's like, "I'm sorry for what I said earlier," and Sam's like, "No, you're right! We take you for granted!" Dean's like, "You've been helping us for so long, and we would be dead without you!" And then Bobby says, "Okay, then. Let's roll credits on this chick flick." And I guess I was literally just making fun of them for having emotions earlier, too, but it wasn't gendered, and that's why I'm better. [laughs]

G: Or is it?

C: Or is it?

G: When were we making fun of them having emotions?

C: By saying it in a silly voice. [both laugh]

G: Oh, okay.

C: I think maybe my silly voice is gendered, though. Like, it's higher pitched than my regular voice. Maybe I am the same.

G: I think it's supposed to show childishness. A child would have a higher voice.

C: That's true. Okay, but when we do valley girl accents when we're making fun of them, I think that is gendered.

G: What is a valley girl accent?

C: Like, "[honestly sounds more New York than valley girl] Oh my god!" or whatever. No, not that.

G: This is the first time I've heard you use that voice.

C: Not exactly that, but like, I don't think that was a valley girl accent. I need to review what a valley girl accent is.

G: I think you have a valley girl accent just fundamentally.

C: In general?

G: Yeah? You think that's not true?

C: I don't think that's true. [G: Okay.] Maybe it's true. Yeah, so Bobby says that- No, you're right. They are weird about Scotland because he says, "Try some of the local grub. I hear it's exotic." What does that mean?

G: Yeah. They have that sausage thing, right? It's blood or something? Which is normal schnormal in many places.

C: Yeah, I don't know. Something. Dean's just going to Olive Garden. Good call. Their all you can eat deal is good.

G: You know what? They should have said they should try the whiskey there, which they should have. They're whiskey enthusiasts!

C: That's true. The thing is, they just drink to have alcohol. I don't think they're that into having like good stuff. [G: Fancy stuff.] After finally hanging up, Bobby has cut out a piece of the cobbler. He's sat down with his fork. He's ready to eat it, but the phone rings. And he answers it, and it's back to same old, same old, pretending to be the FBI. And it's so sad that he'll never be able to eat the cobbler because he never learned how to fucking multitask. [G: Yeah.] The end!

G: I mean it also- I think it's supposed to be like, "Yeah, same old, same old, but he doesn't have this burden burdening him anymore." [C: That's true.] Which is nice.

C: He doesn't have this burden burdening him anymore, but he'll also never have a normal life where he gets to eat a cobbler! And that woman won't go out with him because he's a hunter, and he sprayed her all with blood.

G: I mean, I think no, the point is that, you know, you can have this life-changing thing happen to you, and you just go back to your life, and it's still your life, which is pretty nice, I think.

C: Yeah. But the fact that he's like, "Oh, of course this is how it turns out" when she turns down his "I'll come over for dinner" thing.

G: But he's not like, upset. He's not upset at this point in this episode.

C: He's not upset, but I think that the general whole thing is like, you're supposed to feel bad for him because he can't have a normal life, and that normal life by woman thing, you know?

G: Are you? I think it's excellent when someone is pursuing you, or you're pursuing someone, and it falls apart, and you're like, "Now it's done, and I can go back to my life." [laughs] which is what's happening to Bobby.

C: So you think he was really, really happy about it?

G: Well, I mean, he was- I think there is a feeling of like, "Oh, new thing, new thing, new thing. My new thing's over. I can go back to my life."

C: But he's not happy about it.

G: Is he not? He looks fine.

C: [laughing] He's upset during the episode. He's often upset.

G: No, he's upset because there's this fucking time that's ticking for him, and his soul is gonna be taken to Hell and tortured forever, and now that's done, and he's fine.

C: Yeah, no, it's done, it's fine, but he also can't eat a cobbler, and he's been trying to for many times throughout the episode.

G: This is true. But I thought it was like, you know, like at the end of a sitcom, and you're like, "Silly me!" Like that kind of thing. [laughs]

C: I think we're supposed to be sad about it.

G: Really? Who even likes a peach cobbler?

C: Because he tries so much to eat the cobbler. It's a real storyline.

G: Just take a bite while you answer the phone.

C: I agree, and I think that they could have done that as like a, "He's still able to have joys and little things in life while pursuing this life," but like, they don't have him do that to be like, "His life is so hard."

G: I think it would be fine if he delivers a sentence and then takes a bite, which I think will be fun!

C: I agree, but they didn't, because they were trying to say something else.

G: Yeah. Well, that's it for this episode. [both laugh]

-

G: Best Line/Worst Line?

C: It's- yeah. God! There were lines? I'm sure I laughed at points.

G: I do love Rufus this episode, so I think my best line should go to him.

C: Oh yeah!

G: I would say I love when Bobby goes, "Woodchipper," and Rufus takes a pause and goes, "Okey-dokey. Woodchipper. That can do it." They're very cute.

C: He's so charming! [G: Yeah.] I like when Bobby says that he's not asking for Rufus's help, and Rufus says, "I ain't asking for your permission."

G: Yeah, that is good. And you know what? I do think it's fascinating that both of them play the role of like, grumpy old guy, but Rufus is charming and charismatic, and Bobby's just there. [both laugh] I'm so sorry. It's true, though.

G: Yeah. It's because Rufus smiles, and Bobby doesn't.

G: Yeah, Rufus is like, he's more expressive, I suppose, [C: Yeah.] in both the bad and the good aspects of his feelings.

C: And Rufus is also hot, and Bobby isn't. [both laugh]

G: Yeah, well, worst line. I don't like when the demon is flirting with Bobby, 'cause Bobby's not hot. [both laugh]

C: [laughing] And that's the only reason. I think there's like- When Dean says that- well, that's in character, but when he says he's "baring his soul like a frigging girl" in combination with Bobby bringing out the chick flick line at the end.

G: Yeah, they do love to do that. [C: Yeah.] Spreadsheets?

C: Yeah. Alright. Misogyny? It's there.

G: It's there. Two? I do think Dean and Bobby's girl comments and then the portrayal of the demon, so.

C: And also Marcy.

G: Oh, yeah! I suppose Marcy, the thing that they do with Marcy is fundamental to the episode. [C: Yeah. 3?] So I would say a 3.

C: Yeah. Racism?

G: I don't think so.

C: I don't think so. Well, was the okami a little bit? I don't know.

G: Oh. Yes, I would say 1 point.

C: Alright, 1 point.

G: We're allowed. We're Busty Asian Beauties: A Supernatural Commentary Podcast.

C: Yeah. [both laugh] We're allowed to overweight things that happen with Asian people. Just like our breasts.

G: Just like our what?

C: I said our breasts.

G: Ugh!

C: We can cut that. Homophobia. Is the making fun of Crowley for wearing a skirt thing- I don't know. Homophobia and transmisogyny is always pretty combined in Supernatural.

G: I'll give it a 1.

C: IMDb. People like this episode. I know that people like this episode. Do they like it enough to stop hating Season 6 so much? It's like, back to regular Supernatural rating.

G: Well, I'm the first one who's going to guess, and I would say yes. I'm giving this an 8.6.

C: Okay. I was thinking 8.5, but also, that might be, I don't know, I think I want to go higher, because I feel like I know this episode's really liked. But also, every time we've gone high, it's been wrong 'cause people hate Season 6. I'll just go with my initial instinct of 8.5.

G: Okay, let's see. Ha.

C: Watch it be a fucking 9.

G: It's a 9.1.

C: We're so wrong about everything, always.

G: Well, I'm righter, so.

C: Yeah. [laughs] Okay, people really love this episode. People do like it when you go outside of the typical format.

G: Yeah. "Absolute gem of Season 6. The second best episode overall."

C: What's the first?

G: Overall what? Over all of the show? [C: Maybe.] They said that gag with Garth is wonderful. So true. I do love it. I suppose that is also a favorite line of mine if I were to choose two.

C: Yeah, that was fun. Yeah. "Bobby and Crowley were such a good break from the boys. I love them, but sometimes it's a bit much." Real. "There are some very disturbing scenes (the demon execution in Bobby's basement) and some very funny scenes (the woman)."

G: What the fuck is the woman?

C: Marcy? Do they mean Marcy? [G laughs]

G: They love the movie Drag Me to Hell and is very glad that it was mentioned.

G: "The only thing I'm asking myself: Does this episode solve the problem Dean and Sam had all Season 2 in just one Episode?" What the fuck was your problem in Season 2?

C: Like they could burn Azazel’s bones?

G: Oh. Hell yeah. They could. But isn't Azazel a Prince of Hell?

C: Crowley is the king of Hell.

G: No, but like, a Prince of Hell means you're old as fuck.

C: Oh, maybe.

G: Yeah. They were going international.

C: Oh my god, wait! This is so fun! Someone rated this 10 out of 10, said "I'd been waiting for this and didn't know it," and then at the end, they say, "Now can someone tell me if there's one like it for Castiel? That would be worth continuing to watch..." I can't wait for this person to have probably already gone to "Man Who Would Be King."

G: Yeah. Let's give it a like. I'll make it helpful. Oh, no, it's asking me to sign up for an account! [C: You need an account.] Fuck off!

C: Oh my god, this is their only review on IMDb.

G: Oh my god, they reviewed "We Go Together." "We Go Together"? They review- [C: What?] No, sorry. I thought they reviewed Much Ado About Nothing [both laughing], but I'm just looking at my recently viewed.

C: Incredibly funny. My last ones before the last two Supernatural episodes are Crazy Rich Asians, Jimmy O. Yang, and Love Hard. [both laugh]

G: No, yeah. We can see the journey and the destination.

That’s it for this episode of Busty Asian Beauties. Next week, we will be discussing Season 6, Episode 5: "Live Free or Twihard." [C: Hell yeah.] Leave us a rating or a review wherever you get your podcasts.

C: Follow us on social media! We are on Tumblr at bustyasianbeautiespod.tumblr.com. And... wait, I didn't open our sticky note for what this last part is. I thought I knew it. I don't. Our official tag is #BABPod, B-A-B-POD. Thanks to everyone who's donated to our Ko-Fi at ko-fi.com/bustyasianbeautiespod, which is where our outtakes live, and check out our merch at babpod.redbubble.com.

G: You can email us any feedback, comments, or inquiries at bustyasianbeautiespod@gmail.com. See you guys next time! [both] Bye!

[guitar music]

[bustyasianbeautiespod]

hello babpals no episode this week due to being so sleepy sleepy tired during our supposed recording schedule. see you all next week for the one about aliens! (for real this time)

-grey <3

[bustyasianbeautiespod]

Episode 112: Why Did Lucky The Dog Cross the Road? To Get to Purgatory

Today, Crystal & Grey discuss Supernatural 6.08 - All Dogs Go To Heaven. We talk about: Adventures in Leather Jacket-ing, if you can leave a sick child to walk a dog, and Crowley being a little bit mean :(

Ko-fi

Redbubble

Transcript

[bustyasianbeautiespod]

Episode 111: Soulless Sam is Literally Fine

Today, Crystal & Grey discuss Supernatural 6.07 - Family Matters. We talk about: Dean Winchester's attack dog, incessantly talking about Sam's potential hotness, and whether Samuel and Castiel is the new Sastiel.

Episode 111 Outtakes: Sherlock's Daddy

Redbubble

Transcript

[bustyasianbeautiespod]

Our yearly tradition of discussing our Spotify Wrapped for a shockingly long time....... is OUT!*

Thank you so much to everyone who has us in their top 5 and especially their top 1 listened podcasts this year. Much much love as always, and kudos for sticking around!

*Yes as a lesbian!! which she's always been!

[bustyasianbeautiespod]

just wanted to say that you were in the top 5 podcasts on my spotify wrapped! thank you for all the laughs 🫶 i’ve really enjoyed reliving the epic highs and lows of supernatural through your podcast without having to actually watch all the shitty episodes lol

omg yayyyy thank you for listening!!! we will always be here to protect you from the shitty episodes by saying everything that happens in them beat by beat

- Crystal :)

[bustyasianbeautiespod]

WE WILL BE BACK

episode this week is late but WILL be released.... we are NOT taking an extended break we are just committing acts of suspense entirely precedented by our podcast history

-grey