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Episode 107 Transcript: Supernatural - We Will Find A Way

[intro guitar music]

G: Hello, it's Grey.

C: Hello, it's Crystal.

G: And this is Busty Asian Beauties, a Supernatural commentary podcast where I, someone who has seen this show many, many times...

C: And I, someone who only knows the show through social media, discuss every single episode of Supernatural from start to finish. Also, we are both Asian.

G: Both Asian! For today's episode, we are discussing Season 6, Episode 3: "The Third Man," written by Ben Edlund [C: Boo.] and directed by Robert Singer. This episode is horrible! [laughs] No, this episode is very racist. [C: Yeah.] Yeah. Last episode, Crystal was like, "I think Cas is like, racist next episode." And I was like, "Hmm. I wonder what that means." And then I watched this episode, and as every single piece slowly fell into place like a Tetris game, [C laughs] I was like, "Oh, no!" [laughs] This episode is egregiously racist! Ben Edlund, I'll kill you! [C laughs] Sorry. I probably shouldn't say stuff like that, again, because of everything.

C: In case he dies of suspicious circumstances?

G: Yeah. And they track down this episode.

C: You'll have an alibi. You'll be out of the country.

G: I will have never stepped foot to the United States. But what if he dies during a vacation to the Philippines, Crystal? Let's consider all of our fucking situations.

C: When Ben Edlund goes to the Philippines, I'll buy you a plane ticket to come to the US to visit me. [G laughs]

G: Yeah, we have to plan it very early on because the visa applications is going to be one hell of a thing. Like, they'll interview me, and I'll go, "Oh, it's because Ben Edlund is going to the Philippines, [C laughs] and I'm afraid that people will think I'll kill him if he dies here." And they'd be like, "What the fuck?"

C: Yeah, or they'll be like, "I completely understand. I hate that guy, too. Go to the US."

G: No, but he's always going to have the benefit of the doubt for being a US citizen! [C: Mm. True.] Unfortunate. [C: Unfortunate.] Well, he's extending his repertoire this episode from good old-fashioned misogyny to good old-fashioned racism. [both laugh]

C: What's neo-racism?

G: I think- You know what? I think all of it is good old-fashioned. They haven't invented new ones. They're just repurposing old ones over and over again.

C: Yeah, that seems to be the case.

G: Yeah, so that's kind of our content warning for this episode. There's going to be discussions of police brutality, but also specifically discussions of how Supernatural used this storyline in ways that are completely insensitive and also egregious. [C: Yeah.] And also specifically, it's like, antiblack racism, just to be clear. [C: Yeah.] What did you know about this episode before going in, by the way?

C: I knew about the shot where Cas falls out of a window [G: Of course.] onto Sam's car while fighting an angel because it's in the-

G: While biting?

C: While fighting an angel. [laughs]

G: Ah, okay. Well, he should have bit him. Yeah.

C: Because it's in the Cas "What the Hell" AMV.

G: Of course. [C: Of course.] I do love that shot so much when like, it goes down, like, the camera's above, and then it it pulls back up to be behind Sam and Dean. It's pretty fun!

C: Yeah. They paid a lot of money to make that shot happen, I feel.

G: Yeah. Do you think it's more or less money than the crane shot with Cas in Season 4, "When the Levee Breaks"?

C: Probably more. [G: Probably more.] I don't know how showbiz works. Somebody let us know. [both] Robert Singer- [laughs]

G: No, yeah. That was a Robert Singer episode, yeah.

C: - if you're listening to this, let us know.

G: There was a reverse Robert Singer zoom this episode, and I did find it incredibly amusing. When Cas would transfer places [C: True.], the one specifically where he kidnaps that kid and takes his body to the motel room to torture. Dean is like, "Wait, why are you taking that kid?" And Cas goes, "Portability." And then it's like so close to his face, and then it zooms out, and they're back in the motel. Yeah. [C: Yeah.] So Robert Singer’s playing with his stuff. Good for him.

C: Yeah. Good for him. And then the other thing is that there's a young Black kid who- I thought he got possessed by an angel, but no, he was just spoken to by an angel, and I knew that Cas would leave him somewhere for the cops to find in a way that would not be pleasant for this child.

G: Yeah. Have you- what do you know about Balthazar? I did not expect that he was gonna be here. I knew the moment they mentioned the staff of Moses, but like, here, before watching the episode, I didn't know he was gonna be here already. I didn't know he comes in that early.

C: Well, he's Cas's ex-boyfriend in a lot of human AUs. [laughs]

G: Yeah. That's true.

C: I knew that he was British. I knew that he would be the one who sends them to the show in "The French Mistake" and that, at some point, Cas is gonna say that someone has an oak tree up their ass and "bite me," and that he learned that from his friend, and that friend was Balthazar.

G: Yeah, this is true. I don't like Balthazar. I don't like his British accent. I'm Anglophobic.

C: What about Crowley?

G: Well, I love Crowley, so, you know, he transcends that. [C: Mm-hm.] And he hates Celine Dion? Fuck that guy. Those are all my- I always forget that his name is Balthazar. The actor's name is Sebastian Roche, and I always think that Balthazar's name is Sebastian.

C: He does look like a Sebastian.

G: He does look like a Sebastian. Is he actually British? Did I just insult his real accent? Probably.

C: Oh, probably. Like, why would they make him put on a fake British accent? [both laugh] Wait, he's French-American?

G: He's French American?

C: [laughing] Why did they make him put on a fake British accent? [both laughing]

G: Does he have a fake British accent, or does he have a French-American accent?

C: Does he have a different accent that I don't know? [G: I don't know.] "Balthazar Supernatural..." maybe I just completely forgot! Somebody says he has a Scottish-French accent. Is that true?

G: Does the Scottish-French accent just go directly to British? Is that what the result of those two accents is?

C: IMDb says he's Scottish-French, but Wikipedia says he's American-French. Maybe this is his real accent.

G: Yeah, probably. It is a possibility.

C: Sorry.

G: Sorry, Sebastian. I also have to try very hard to not call your character Sebastian for this entire season, probably.

C: I don't think I was paying enough attention when he spoke to remember what his accent was. I'm sorry to all the people of Scotland for calling that accent British unless it sounded British, in which case I'm not sorry.

G: Yeah. Should we stop making fun of people's accents, just like Supernatural does and then also did with that German guy? [C laughs]

C: Yeah, I guess.

G: There's a possibility that we should, yeah. Unfortunate. I love doing it!

C: Who else have we made fun of the accent of? [both laugh]

G: [laughs] Sorry! I think at some point, we called for racism against Irish people by making fun of their accent.

C: [laughs] Yeah, I did call for hibernophobia. [G: Yeah.] [laughing] I'm gonna renounce my formerly hibernophobic ways.

G: Yeah. Also, it's rich coming from me. So we really should stop doing- [laughs]

C: Well, your accent is beautiful, so.

G: I know! That's the main difference between me and the French-American-Scottish accent. [both laugh] Sorry!

C: Did he roll an r once, though?

G: It was definitely not a Scottish accent. [C laughs] We have heard David Tennant talk enough in YouTube videos, TV shows, and our dreams [C: There are different parts of Scotland.] to know that that's not a Scottish accent!

C: Maybe in your dreams. [laughs]

G: No, yeah, he was in my dream, and it was pretty bad. [C: Yeah, well.] He was a gym teacher, and we made out. [laughing]

C: You're not keeping this in, are you?

G: No, I'm keeping that one in. [C laughing] The people should know. [C: Okay!] And even in the dream, I was like, "Ugh! Yucky!" [both laughing]

C: There's a "Road So Far."

G: I enjoyed the "Road So Far" for this episode. The first few seconds is recapping the first ep and the second ep, and then once they have finally established that, we go to Cas, and like, the voice clip they use for Cas is in 4.18, “Monster at the End of This Book,” if I'm correct. When he's telling Dean like, "Monsters are fierce. [C: Archangels.] They're absolute. They're Heaven's most terrifying weapon." What did I say?

C: You said monsters.

G: [laughs] Well, monsters are fierce. But yeah, he's saying, "Archangels are fierce. They're absolute." I think, even in 4.18, I have already said that I absolutely love this delivery. Yeah. And then they show a little bit of Raphael. They show the part where Raphael goes, "Castiel, I'm warning you. Do not leave me here. I will find you," and I am once again reminded of how fucking cool the voicing that the actor did for Raphael is. [C: He's so good.] I think, if I'm not mistaken, this is the last time we will see this specific actor for Raphael.

C: Yeah, 'cause this vessel is fucked.

G: His next vessel is gonna be a woman, I'm pretty sure.

C: No, but we see him in flashbacks in "Man Who Would Be King."

G: Oh, this is true! That's why I was like, "I think we still have Raphael scenes with this guy as the vessel." But yeah, you're right. There's going to be flashback scenes. But like, I think in his current scenes, he's going to be in a female vessel. And then, you know, Cas goes up to Heaven, and then he- like, the last line is about how he wants to go back up because it's going to be total anarchy up there. We start the episode- This scene, okay, just to preface, I'm trying to live my life better. I watched this episode, no knitting. I literally put my knitting physically away so that I can focus on watching the episode. Congratulations to me, and you're welcome to everyone. I was shrieking when this scene was happening. It's very well done in terms of like, the makeup and prop and everything. I think it's excellent.

C: Yes. They did a really good job.

G: I mean, last episode, they also did a very good job with the horror aspect of the episode, and I am enjoying this portion that Supernatural is doing where they're trying to recover themselves as a good old-fashioned monster hunting show. Maybe that's why the racism is back. [both laugh] No, but what is with the racism this season? We're like, 3 episodes in.

C: Well, Sera Gamble has a pretty bad rap.

G: Yeah, this is true. Is it Sera Gamble’s fault? [C: Maybe.] It probably is. Anyway, the scene is, there's this police officer, he's like, in the locker room, and he is washing his face, and he's patting his face dry, and then there's like a little nick on the side of his face, and he's like, "Oh, I nicked myself shaving or whatever." And then as he keeps on going, he notices that even more of his skin is red and bleeding, so he touches it, and then, like the skin just sloughs off. How is that pronounced? [both] Sloffs? Sloughs off. And there's just this giant patch that literally falls on the fucking sink. And he just has a giant red hole on his face. Not hole, like, it's his skin, but like, below it. Like, the muscular part of his face. And then he starts freaking out. He takes a step back, and like, the skin of his foot is like, left on the floor. It's wonderful! It's like, wonderful to look at. It's completely fucking horrifying. And then he starts bleeding through his shirt, just like me for real. There's blood in his mouth, blood in his face, everything. And then he turns around, and he sees- there's a police officer. He's gonna be relevant later. His name's Ed. And he just goes, "Ed, I think I'm bleeding." He tries to take a step forward, and the camera is now just like, on Ed, and then we see a splatter of blood, like, a fine mist of blood go to his face. And then we go to his feet, and it's like, it's bloody, and then it pans slowly towards where the body is, or the quote-unquote "body," because it's just a pile of clothes and disintegrated flesh. It's just all blood. [C: Hell yeah.] Very fun. Wonderful! It really is amazing to look at. They did a really good job with this one. I like that they have consistently been doing good teaser- or, what's that called? The cold open. It's been consistently good. So that's fun.

C: It is.

C: So Dean wakes up in Lisa's house, and they're spooning or whatever, and then they start making out, and maybe having sex. But then Dean wakes up. He was, in fact, [G: It wasn't real!] having a sex dream, and he's sleeping in the Impala.

G: Every time there's a sex scene in Supernatural- because this one, it is a sex scene. They make a point of like showing the like, hands and whatever, which is, of course, what makes a sex scene a sex scene. [C: Yeah. #Lesbianism.] Yeah, but like, they do that, [laughs] and I always think about that one IMDb review that was like, "Oh, yeah, your wife says that Sam Winchester is her favorite character. Yeah, I bet, after this sex scene where he fucks this woman so good." [both laughing] And like, I can't help but think like, "Oh, this is like some sort of pandering to someone who wants to fuck Dean Winchester."

C: Yeah. Or who wants to fuck Cindy Sampson.

G: This is true. Why not Lisa, Crystal?

C: You're right. 'Cause you said the character name, and I said the actress name. You're right. I'm so sorry. [G: Boo!] Who wants to fuck Lisa or Cindy Sampson, or Jensen Ackles, or Dean Winchester. A lot of options here. Meanwhile, what else is happening in the world of sex is-

G: [laughs] No, this is hilarious! The cut to Sam working out? I did scream. I was like, "Love it!" Good for him.

C: Yeah, he's sweating a lot, but I think in the world of the making of Supernatural, they probably just dumped a bunch of lube on Jared Padalecki.

G: Is that the case? You can just do oil. [C: True.] I feel like lube, what it is and how it works, it's probably just going to look goopy on the skin. That's why they use it for holy water because it like, beads up. So this is probably baby oil.

C: No, that's true. You're right. I'm so sorry. Look at me, making blunder after blunder today!

G: Maybe it's macadamia nut oil, Crystal. [C laughs]

C: Maybe so. And he's doing push-ups, sit-ups. Later, he's doing chin-ups, which must be hard if his hands are all oiled up.

G: I think there was a time in my life where I was disgusted by Sam Winchester's half-naked body [C laughs] because there is this implication that I should be attracted to it, and I'm like, "Ugh!" [C: Yeah.] But now, I think I'm able to appreciate a muscular male figure for what it is, which is a fun, interesting thing to look at. [C: Huh.] It is very interesting. He has like a vee. You know the vee. You know what I'm talking about.

C: Like, below his neck?

G: No! Like, near his crotch. What is that called? The vee line in his like, hips?

C: [laughing] Why do I only know them as cum gutters? [both laugh] [G: What?] [laughing] I only know them as- Are you talking about the cum gutters?

G: It's called the gutter?

C: [laughing] It's called the cum gutter. [G: No!] I'm sure there's another term for it.

G: I refuse. I steadily refuse to accept this saying.

C: I'm sure there's another. Okay. The iliac furrows.

G: Do you ever think about the fact that that area is called the love handles? What the fuck [laughs] is that about?

C: Well, you grab onto them when you have sex.

G: When you make love, Crystal. [C laughs]

C: You're right. So sorry. Third apology of the night.

G: I think it would be terrifying to see a 6 foot 4 man in the wild. Do you think that's true? You have seen, probably, a 6 foot 4 man. [C: Probably. I don't remember.] I don't think I have. Yeah. Oh, so it didn't leave an impression?

C: Yeah. I mean, currently, Grant O'Brien is now my idea of what a really really tall guy is, so Sam Winchester is whatever.

G: What is Grant? He's 6'7?

C: He's 6'9.

G: Holy shit. [C laughs] [C: Yes.] He's the guy who makes the cocktails, right? [C: Yes.] Oh, god! Well, good for him! [C: Good for him.] I'm sure he's not terrifying in any way whatsoever.

G: Yeah, I mean, people mock him for his height every time he's on a video, so.

G: Yeah. Rhett McLaughlin is 6'7, I think. [C: Who?] The guy from Good Mythical Morning. Keep up, Crystal.

C: Oh. I thought you said "Reth"! I didn't know who that was.

G: Yeah, no, I have trouble pronouncing his name at all times. [laughs] [C: I understand.] No, you see, I was specifically talking about people who are 6'4. So Jared Padalecki, nobody else. He's working out. It's very fun. He's really working those muscles. Apparently, after you work out, your muscles are like, extra like big. Like, they look like, big. So like this is a convenient thing way to do it, I suppose. Like, just have him do chin-ups before he has his scene where he's showing off his body.

C: A hot woman comes out of the bathroom, and she's like, "Oh my god! You're so hot, and you're so good at sex! You're the best at sex I've ever ever ever had!"

G: "Do you want to hang out again later?" And Sam's just completely silent.

C: Yeah. He's making a sicko mode face or something. [both laugh] He's not answering any of her questions. He has like this slight smirk/glare combination, but it's so slight that it has no energy or emotion behind it. Yeah, so she heads out, and then Sam clears his throat [G: Sam ahems.], still not saying anything, and then hands her some cash. And this is how you know Sam is soulless because he paid for a sex worker, and that's evil! [both laugh]

G: Literally!

C: God. Yeah. And then the woman says, like, "Oh, and by the way, hey, here's my phone number. You're so hot and good at sex that the next time, we can just have sex without any money being involved." And Sam goes, "Okay." And then as soon as she leaves, he throws her phone number into the trash. [G: Love that.] What is that?

G: What is Supernatural thinking?

C: Yeah, what are they saying? [laughs]

G: No, yeah. What are they saying?

C: If the point is like, Sam's not interested in romance, you can have one-night stands without romance.

G: She was not offering romance.

C: And she was also not offering romance. She was just like, "That was a good enough time that I wouldn't need you to pay."

G: Maybe it's just he moves around a lot. It's still the same logic in Season 2. "Oh, I move around a lot!" But now, he also is soulless, so he's like, "And I don't give a fuck about you, specifically."

C: Yeah. But I mean, Supernatural has established that it's icky for Sam or Dean to pay for sex because they're so good and hot that they can just get it by themselves. But like, in this one, it's still like, "He's so good at sex and hot."

G: Yeah, so he can get a sex worker's sex for freeeeee! Which is what they're doing, yeah.

C: Yeah. But also, yeah, I don't know. It's just like, I guess he just doesn't want to put the effort in to chat anybody up, whatever whatever.

G: Yeah. Literally no chatting.

C: Yeah. Not a word except for "okay" at the end once.

G: Yeah. He should have said, "Okey-dokey!" and the woman would've been like, "Hell yeah."

C: Yeah, she would have taken her number back. [G laughs] The phone rings. It's Dean, who's like- I think he's swinging by the Campbells, but Sam says that he's in Easter, Pennsylvania, doing a case because all he does is work. He doesn't take breaks in between anymore. And he just seems really impatient with Dean on the phone, too.

G: Yeah. And also, he's hiding the fact that he doesn't sleep.

C: Does he not sleep?

G: Yeah. I'm sorry. You didn't know that? That's like, one of the hallmarks of being soulless.

C: But- wait! What does this mean physiologically?

G: No idea.

C: I don't get it. [laughs]

G: Is it the soul that needs sleep? That is a good question. It's excellent.

C: Yeah, I think it's the body! I guess not in Supernatural.

G: Yeah. It could be the soul. Have you ever tried being soulless, Crystal?

C: I guess not. I'm so sorry. [G: Yeah.] I shouldn't speak on- You have, I presume?

G: Tried being soulless? [C: Yeah.] You know what? It is a possibility that I have tried it, so ask away.

C: Well, did you have to sleep?

G: No. [both laughing]

C: Well, I'm glad we hashed that out.

G: To be fair, you don't have to sleep in general. You can just not sleep, and then you'll die, but like, you know. [C laughs]

C: Yeah. He's very curt with Dean, very just like, "I've delivered you your location. Just go there," etc. And like, it's so weird, because when he's in person with Dean, he's like, normal, right? So like, what- what is this?

G: I don't know. I think they're trying to put a thing where, when he is in front of Dean, he's pretending or whatever. But this is also technically in front of Dean, so like, what's that about?

C: Yeah. I don't know. Is it pretending? Is it like some sort of muscle memory when Dean's here that like, reminds him of the way that they usually interact?

G: That's probably maybe the case, yeah. Do you notice the end of the episode has a "Coming Soon"? [C: Yeah.] And the last scene of that sequence is like, Dean finding out that Sam is soulless-

C: I didn't watch it, but yeah.

G: Oh, okay. Well, towards the end, Dean already knows what's happening, or Dean has evidence that this is not true. But he turns towards Sam and asks, "But Sam, you'll always have my back, right?" And Sam does his Sam smile, and he goes, "[scoffs] Yeah, of course, Dean." [C laughs] And Dean looks at him angry, like, "I'm angy! And mad at you!" [C laughs] So like, I don't know.

C: [laughing] Thank you for the description.

G: Well, it is accurate! If you watch it again, you'll know for a fact that I was correct in my description. Yeah, anyway, so I think there is a sense of having to pretend in front of Dean more so when you're in person than in a call, because in a call, at least you can hide your physicality, you can hide your like body language or whatever. When you're with him in real life, you have to do the Sam Winchester smile. [C: It's true.] And Sam seems to be only capable of doing the Sam Winchester smirk nowadays.

G: So we go to one of those backroads- Is this a backroad?

C: Well, it says he's parked on the side of the road.

G: Well, yeah, not on the back of the road. [laughs] But like, what do you call the specific look of a road in the United States? Looks like a road, but like, it's like, weird. [laughs] I don't-

C: It's like, dirt?

G: It's not a dirt road. It's like, "Oh, yesterday, this was a dirt road, but they paved it today." [C laughs] That's what it looks like. [C: I don't know what the term is.] It's that kind of road. This cop is in a police car on the side, slightly obstructed by the leaves. Definitely obstructed if you're in a car and you're driving towards it. And he is doing the speed gun, and there's a car that passes by pretty quickly, and it's 70 miles per hour. How much is that? [C: It's not too fast.] Oh, it's 112. I think that is pretty fast. [C: Really?] Yeah. When my dad gets to 70 kilometers per hour, I'm like, "We're going to die." That's why I don't drive, by the way. Which is 43 miles per hour.

C: That's like, the local roads in my neighborhood are like, 55 miles. [laughs]

G: Yeah. A lot of the roads here are at 60, 60 kilometers per hour or 70, max speed, yeah. That's why, like, what is the point of buying a sports car in the Philippines? The roads are bad, you can't speed anywhere, you're always caught up in traffic, so. [C: Yeah.] Just buy a Dodge Charger just like Sam Winchester. [C laughs] I think a Dodge Charger is also expensive, but that's fine to buy. Anyway, this cop, I don't know. He receives a phone call. Later, we find out that this is the cop that saw the other cop die earlier. And what this cop was saying is like, "Oh, why are you calling me? He's dead. Whatever. It's not about us. We do what we do. We go to work. We go to the funeral!" And then, you know, he's just like, "It's not about us. Don't call me anymore," blah blah blah. And then we start seeing this like, point of view shot from the woods, just towards the side of the car. And later on, we realize that this is a kid sneaking about. I think, in this scene, you're supposed to think it's a monster who's going to attack, and we're finally going to see the monster physically. So it is fun when what happens next is there's this camera that zooms into the cop, and it like, instead of being bitten or whatever, attacked, he starts growing boils on his skin. Later on, we see him with no hair, no eyebrows, no nothing, and I was a bit disappointed. I was like, "You should have put in the hair." [C laughs] But yeah. He dies from that. Apparently, there's so many inside his throat as well, he tries to call emergency, but he couldn't speak, blah blah blah, and then he's dead.

C: Yippee!

G: Yoo-hoo!

C: Sam and Dean meet up, and when Dean leaves the Impala, he's in the middle of a phone call to Ben where he tells him like, "I know you're lying. Because I lie professionally, that's how." Which I think is a nice continuation of the "Dean actually does tell Ben most things, it seems." Yeah, he just says that he should tell Lisa that he broke this thing that he's lying about breaking, [laughs] and then he tells him to "take it like a man," which is also a phrase that he employed on Bobby John last episode. [G: This is true.] So I guess this is one of Dean Winchester's main parenting tools, giving people ideas of gender norms that are inaccurate. No, I mean, that's not the right way to phrase it. But who cares? Anyway, Sam's sort of laughing at him about this. They move on to talking about Dean and Lisa, and Dean's like, "Oh, Lisa is really cool about me going." And Sam just says, "Better for everybody." [laughs] It's true! And then Dean makes fun of Sam for his car a bit, [G: Yeah.] and they're being smiley and laugh-y, and just really very normal.

C: What do you think about the car?

C: Sam's car? [G: Yeah.] It's fine. It's a car. It drives. It's got wheels.

G: It is very rounded, which is, I think you notice it very distinctly when it's beside the Impala. [C: Yeah, it's cute.] And it has this little vent in the front. So fun.

C: Just like Sam in his crotch area.

G: ... Crystal. [both laugh]

C: They go to the morgue. They learn about both of these cops. They decide there's definitely a connection between them. The only witness is Officer Ed Colfax, who's the cop we saw in the cold open, so they decide to go and talk to him. He's the partner of the cop who turned into blood. [G: Yeah.] As they're driving there, [G laughs] Sam turns a corner, and then Dean immediately like, swerves, tires screeching, cuts him off to park in front of him. When they get out, Sam goes, "Were you racing me?" and Dean goes, "No, I was kicking your ass"

G: Dean does look incredibly amused by this, so good for him.

C: Yeah. [laughs] I'll allow this. He can be happy sometimes.

G: So they like, knock on the house, and the cop answers. He goes out. His name's Ed, and he is in full uniform, with the cap and everything. And Sam introduces himself as like, the fed. And, you know, "We're just going to ask questions about your guy." And Ed is very visibly in distress, and he basically does a like, "No, fuck off." And he closes the door, and Sam's like, "Mm, okay," and then he kicks the door in, and Dean is like, "Whoa, Sam, I can't believe you've done this." Inside, there's like, family photos and like, photos of him. It's just like usual family on the wall-type photos. Ed is like on the corner, on a table. He is using, I think, a knife to scratch out his face on a picture of him in uniform. And Dean is like, "Okay, weird. Well, we think your partner has been involved in foul play. Do you know any enemies of his?" And Ed says, "Well, yes." And "They both had it coming. I'll be the next to go, and then it will be over, and God will be satisfied." Yeah, he says, "God wants us all dead because of Christopher Birch." There is a thing that they do in this scene where he knocks over, I think, a whiskey bottle, and then he just lets it pour and pour and pour, which I did enjoy the visuals of. Because this scene, if they didn't do that, would be incredibly boring. [both laugh] So they were like, "Let's knock over a bottle of whiskey." And he describes Christopher Birch as having no face and a planted gun. Yeah, "a kid with no face and a planted gun." Yeah. He like, starts bleeding from under his cap, and he's like, "Oh, yeah, I've been itching a lot," and he collapses, and when Dean takes out his cap, there's cicadas inside.

C: Locusts.

G: Locusts? Are those different? I think locust is a general term.

C: They're different.

G: So Sam and Dean figure out that this is like, the fucking Egyptian plagues, but like, in small quantities, which is very fun. And also, they took one of the fucking locusts and put it in a jar. [C laughs] Would you have done that? I would definitely not.

C: No, I was like, "That thing can eat through a skull. It can definitely eat through this glass."

G: Yeah, I don't think that's true. I'm so sorry.

C: I don't think cicadas generally can do that. Most cicadas can't eat through a skull or glass, but these are clearly special cicadas.

G: Yeah. But like, even still, a skull is organic matter. [laughs] Let's not do this. It literally doesn't matter.

C: Is there like a Mohs hardness scale measurement for a skull?

G: Okay, let's look it up. [typing] "Skull in..." 5 on the Mohs hardness scale.

C: Yeah, and then glass. Glass, okay, is a 5.5 to a 6. So it depends on how strong those cicadas are, but yeah, it's not an automatic assumption that it's true, but it could happen. It's not too far off. Unless Mohs is- Is it exponential or logarithmic or however you call it?

G: It's close to being exponential.

C: Okay, then yeah, probably. Yeah, there's no real reason to think they can get through glass, then. You're right, Grey.

G: Yay! And you were able to find this truth via evidence-based reasoning. Good for us.

C: What they find out is that Christopher Birch, who the cop named was talking about earlier, was a child who was shot in the head last month during a vehicle pursuit, and all three of the cops who died were involved. And all of them filed a police report saying that they had to fire because Christopher Birch was brandishing a firearm. So yeah, they planted the gun and lied about it. I mean, Sam and Dean are both like, "Wow, that's bad." [laughs] Correct!

C: The way they do it is Dean just goes, "Oh, well, that's bad." [both laugh] He goes, "Bunch of dicks. Okay."

C: Yeah. And Sam thinks maybe really this is God or Heaven acting against these cops, which I think an interesting follow-through from like, "Houses of the Holy."

G: Yeah. And like, his reasoning is that now that the Apocalypse is done, the angels have better things to do, like kill cops.

C: Yeah. I wish. Unfortunately, our main angel of the show loves cops. Dean says, "Let's call the main angel of the show who loves cops!"

G: "And meee!" [laughs] [C: What?] No, he says, "Who loves cops, and meee!" [C laughs]

C: Yeah, he says all of that, just like that. Sam says, "Uh, he's not gonna come because I already tried."

G: "He hates me!"

C: "He only hates me!" Dean gives it a shot. He's not like, reverent about it or anything, you know. It's "Now, I lay me down to sleep. I pray to Castiel to get his feathery ass down here." And then, "Don't be a dick." But I guess what works is that he tells Cas that there's something happening down here that's like the Egyptian plagues. And Sam says, "Like I said, the son of a bitch doesn't answer." And then, "He's right behind me, isn't he?"

G: Yeah. We hear the whoosh-whoosh sound of the wings, and Sam's face changes from bemusement to anger and confusion.

C: Yeah. So Cas says, "Hello." [G: Hello!] in his Cas words, and Sam's pissed. He goes, "Hello?" and Cas goes, "Yes?" [laughs] And then Sam imitates Cas! [both] "Hello?" [laughing] And then he goes, "Hello?" And Cas goes, "That is still the term." [laughs]

G: Love him. He spent a quote-unquote "year" as a celestial- What does he call himself? A multi-dimensional wavelength of celestial intent, and his people skills are rusty!

C: Yeah. Yeah. He's very charming during this first scene. Sam goes, "So what? You like Dean better or something?" And Cas is like, "Yeah." [both laugh] [G: He's hilarious!] He goes, "Dean and I do share a more profound bond," and then turns to Dean and goes, "What? I wasn't gonna mention it," which sounds like they fucked.

G: Yeah, which sounds like they have talked about this very much so before. [C: Yeah.] It is funny that the way he poses it, it's like, "We all know this is true, but like, I wasn't gonna say it because it's impolite to say it! I was trying to be polite!" [C laughs]

C: Yeah. "You saw me. You saw me trying, Dean." [G: Yeah.] Yeah, this is a bit of a Sastiel loss, but I would say Sam imitating his voice is a Sastiel win, so really, where do we lie here?

G: I think we lie very solidly on the "They have started queerbaiting with Destiel" side.

C: Yeah. [laughs] I think that's what that is. [G: Yeah.] "Started"?

G: I mean, I would argue that Season 5, they haven't done it yet fully, but also, I argued in Season 5 that in Season 4, they haven't done it yet fully, in Season 5, they're actually doing it. And I suppose I will continue arguing that until time immemorial.

C: Yeah, until 15.18, and you're like, "It's so great how Supernatural never queerbaited once [both laugh] 'cause it's real here!"

G: No, but you think they started in Season 5.

C: Yeah.

G: I probably also think that. I'm just in denial.

C: Yeah. You remember "Cas, not for nothing, but the last time someone looked at me like that, I got laid."

G: Oh yeah, you're right! But that isn't queerbaiting. Cas really is just gay and wants to fuck Dean. [C laughs] And Dean is using it to his advantage.

C: That's true. I guess since Cas is canonically queer, anything that's just about Cas wanting to fuck Dean isn't queerbaiting, so then this isn't queerbaiting, either.

G: No, that's not-

G: The "I wasn't gonna mention it" was like, they've both talked about it.

G: No, that's not how we would define queerbaiting. As you said, right, just because Cas turned out to be gay doesn't mean that blah blah blah.

C: I agree, but you just said that [both laugh] it wasn't queerbaiting because Cas is really gay and wants to fuck Dean.

G: No, but like, Dean is trying to get something that is actually true about their dynamic, which is that Cas likes him better, and then he's just exaggerating it in a way that will make Cas feel ashamed for his attachment to Dean and where his dedication lies in the Heaven/Apocalypse situation. [C: Okay.] Like, I don't think he's saying "Cas wants to fuck me." I think he's saying that "I think Cas likes me more than is appropriate, and I'm gonna make fun of him for it and use it to my advantage."

C: Okay. The "personal space" thing in 5.03, and "My Bloody Valentine"?

G: No, yeah, that's queerbaiting. [laughs]

C: Cool. So anyway, Dean, instead of being like, "Cas, that's mean." or "Cas, you're friends with Sam." He goes, "No, but okay, I know you fucking hate Sam, and honestly, so do I, [G laughs] but remember how he went to Hell for us? You gotta answer his questions!"

G: We didn't even acknowledge that he calls it a profound bond, which ends up being the Destiel name of the-

C: The trailer.

G: Well, not just the trailer. It's a prominent thing that people say about Destiel.

C: So Cas says that he doesn't have any answers because he doesn't know who brought Sam back from the Cage. Why is he lying about this? Is it because he knows that he's soulless, so he's like, "When Dean finds out, I do not want him to blame me!" [laughs]

G: I don't think he knows that Sam is soulless. Maybe he knows something is wrong?

C: Yeah. Maybe he didn't even bring him back. He did, though.

G: He did bring him back. I think he's just trying to hide the fact that he brought him back because he's too busy to like, deal with it.

C: Yeah. [laughs] Yeah, that's fair. I do enjoy a white lie or two. Sam goes, "So it wasn't God?" Aww. [G: Mm.] And Cas is just like, "I don't know. I don't know. And also, I don't know." And then Dean goes, "Okay. If Sam is asking you a question, you just come down and tell him 'I don't know.' Just because we have a bond doesn't mean that you should only listen to me!"

G: No, this is crazy. [both laugh] Hilarious. [C: Literally.] He literally does say, "Just because we have some sort of a... a bond or something." [laughs] He says, "A bond or whatever." So true!

C: So true. He's almost as emotionally repressed as we are. [both laugh]

G: Perhaps so, yeah. We did learn it from Supernatural, allegedly. [C laughs]

C: And Cas says, "You think I came because you called?" which means that whole thing of telling Sam that he likes Deam better was completely unnecessary, [both laugh] and all he had to do was say, "No, I came down because of like the case situation."

G: "Of this thing." Yeah, he's hilarious. [C: So funny.] He was like, "Even if I didn't necessarily come down because I like Dean better, I need Sam to know that I do like Dean better. Like, that is something we need to confirm, even though that's not the reason why I'm here."

C: Yeah, he doesn't have time to do many things, such as protect a child from potential future police brutality, but he does have time for this. Alright.

So he tells Sam that Heaven didn't directly cause these killings, but the staff of Moses did, and it's gone missing. It's not being used at full capacity. He says, "I think we can rule Moses out as a suspect." Slaycay. And Sam and Dean look like he's so stupid for saying that, but when you meet real, actual, Biblical Adam in Season 15, who's going to be laughing?Nobody, because Jack is having a really bad time and gonna die.

G: Jack has a fun time with Serafina.

C: Yeah, yeah, but it's for the sake of him doing his self-sacrifice thing.

G: Yeah, this is true.

C: Yeah. Dean calls Moses's staff "Chuck Heston's disco stick." Why is Dean like, an opposite translator? He's the opposite of the Wikipedia Simple English. [both laugh]

G: Yeah. [laughs] Yeah.

C: So basically, in the chaos of the war in Heaven, a lot of powerful weapons were stolen. He needs Sam and Dean's help. And Sam's like, "Why should we do that when you won't even answer my caaaalls?" And this is when Cas does the, "Sam. Dean. My quote 'people skills' unquote are quote 'rusty,' unquote." He's doing finger quotes. It's great. "Pardon me, but I've spent the last 'year' as a multi-dimensional wavelength of celestial intent!" He's my fave, except he's not this episode. [G: Yeah.] He tells them that they should just help him to prevent people's deaths. Dean says, "Okay, let's think about motive." And they have a newspaper clipping of Christopher Birch's father calling for an investigation into his son's death.

G: Yeah, speaking of Cas being my favorite but not this episode, it is actually so fascinating, like, the entirety of my life- or not the entirety of my life, [C laughs] but when I think back to Season 6, I think, "Yeah, Cas was like in the right," because in my head, I was like, "When Dean is like in the right, that's just the show talking. That's not true." And now, like, I'm like, "No, yeah, Cas did fuck up this season." [laughs] Just from this one episode, we can fully surmise that he did fuck up this season. And later on, Dean does ask Cas pretty straightforwardly like, "Why didn't you tell us? Why didn't you call us?" which is the same question he asks at the end in "The Man Who Would Be King." Like, "You should have fucking told us." [C: Yeah.] And Cas says, "That's very nice, Dean. Where were you when I needed to hear it?" And Dean goes, "I was there! Where were you?" And then it cuts back and forth to like- Do you know that? [C: Yeah.] When Dean goes, "I was there. Where were you?" And it cuts to Cas watching him rake leaves. [C: Yeah.] Because Supernatural doesn't trust us to connect the dots in any way, shape, or form.

C: They just wanted Cas to have a gay little moment.

G: They wanted him to kiss a hundred boys in bars or something.

C: Exactly. [laughs]

G: What I'm trying to say here is I think I may have had a more benevolent look into Cas in Season 6 just because of the distance from the season. I think I've mentioned this maybe with Episode 1 of the season, but this is probably the season I remember the least about. I don't really remember much about Season 6, and I think I have colored Cas Season 6 in rose paint. That's not how that saying goes. I have put on my rose-colored glasses to look at Cas.

C: All of the red flags just look like flags.

G: We go to the Birches, and this one man, Darryl Birch. Also, did we mention that like, this family is Black? They don't mention it, like, Sam and Dean. You get the confirmation here, I guess, because this is a Black family. Daryl Birch is the dad, and he's like, sitting there, and he's looking at newspaper clippings, or just newspaper of like, the deaths, and then he starts cutting up the newspaper, putting it like- I don't know. He's putting it somewhere. He's getting the clippings. And then there's this kid who comes in. The kid is like, "Hey, Dad, how many times are you going to read that clipping? Like, let's just throw it out." But the dad tells him to go away. And so he does, and Sam and Dean and Cas just immediately show up in the living room. Like, literally teleport there. And then, Darryl is like, "What the fuck is this?" [laughs] and Sam goes, "We're FBI agents," which is hilarious. They immediately lead with like, "Yeah, those cops killed your kid. He didn't have a gun." And the dad says, like, "Yeah, they're all getting theirs." And Sam goes, "[aggressive] And who's giving it to them, Darryl?" [laughs] What's wrong with him?

C: [sighs] I don't know.

G: Dean goes, "Did you kill the cops?" And he goes, "No, I didn't. Look at how they died. How could I possibly kill them?" And then the kid shows up.

C: [laughs] No, first Cas says, "You smote them with the staff of Moses!"

G: Oh, yeah. He did do that. And then he goes, "Okay, let's just look for the staff. We don't need to question this guy." Then the kid shows up, and he's holding this staff like it was a gun, and then he goes, "Leave my dad alone." Later on, we'll discuss it, because Cas does leave this kid to the cops. Like, that is something that actually happens in this episode that is so egregiously bad. But like, I don't know, like this whole thing where they're like- They're also cops! Like, feds are also cops, right?

C: Yeah, they're also cops. They teleported into his house and yeah, were generally just very aggressive in their interrogation. And yeah, there's just no real sensitivity given to the fact that his son was murdered by cops, and maybe you should be a bit chiller.

G: Yeah. Internally, in the story, there's no sensitivity. Externally, in the writing of the story, they also seem to not give a fuck? Which is what's so mind-boggling to me. Because you chose to wrote this. Like, you chose to wrote this storyline. You chose to write this storyline. And so I feel like there's no reason to then be like, "I don't know." Like, [laughs] what do mean you don't know? You chose to write it! You're a show that only writes to people of color when you think it will serve your plot, and specifically because they're people of color! And so like, I don't know. There's so many- It would also be probably bad, just because this is Supernatural, if they tried to address the police brutality and specifically the antiblack brutality in in this show because of the way Supernatural is, but like, to bring it up and then do nothing with it other than to go, "We're also the bad guys, by the way. [C laughs] Like, don't worry about it." Like, what the fuck? [C laughs] What the fuck is this? And like, yeah, okay. Let's go on with what the fuck they do with this kid first before we get into the weeds of it. [C: Yeah.] Cas realizes that the staff is- it's sawed off. It's cut into pieces, and only a piece is given to Aaron, which is why, like, earlier, Sam goes like, "Wait. Isn't it supposed to turn the entire sea into blood? Why is it only turning [both] one guy into blood?" And this is why. It's because it's cut up into pieces. The dad screams at Aaron to get the fuck out of there, and Cas boops his head, and then, you know, he collapses. He goes to the kid, takes the fucking staff. Dean starts interrogating the kid. And he goes like, "We're not gonna hurt you. We just need to know where you got this." And the kid is just going, "Please don't kill my dad. It was me." And yeah. What they gather is that the kid got it from an angel. He said, "Those bastards, they killed my brother, and nothing bad even happened to them. So I prayed to God, and God didn't answer, but this angel did, and he said that I could have justice, but I have to take it myself." And then the angel gave him the staff of Moses. And Dean is like, "Well, what did you give in exchange?" And he says, "I bought it with my soul." And Cas is like, "Okay, well, nobody has ever sold a soul to an angel before, but I suppose it can happen." And they realize that the staff is cut into pieces so that the angel can buy even more souls.

C: We never learn what it means to sell your soul to an angel. It sounds fine to me! Guaranteed to get into Heaven?

G: Yeah, what is the logic behind it?

C: What is it?

G: Because later on, in Season 8, I believe, or maybe Season 9, we do get verification that what is running Heaven is the souls. Like, the souls are keeping the lights on. And so it's not like it's a fucking imposition to having to have souls. Like, they also need it. [C: Right.] And so buying a soul is like- It's probably fine. I don't know. What the fuck is going on? I think maybe they will clarify it later.

C: If it's the ten years thing like with the demon deal, then I guess it'd be bad that the kid has to die within ten years. [G: Ah, this is true.] Like, that would be the negative part of it. But yeah, it's not made clear.

G: If that was the case, they should have clarified that, I believe.

C: Yeah, they really really should have clarified.

G: Cas boops this kid asleep and then puts him over his shoulder.

C: And that kid never talks again. That is the end of Aaron being conscious and speaking and having a personality and story.

G: And Dean goes, "Well, what the fuck?" And then they go back to the motel room, and he lies the kid down on the bed. And then he goes like, "Yeah, I need to read the mark that the angel left in the soul." He says that it will be extremely painful for the kid. And Dean is the only one who protests. Like, Sam just stands in the corner like, "Mm, okay." And Dean is like, "No, no, no, wait, wait! Why? You can't do that!" And Sam just goes, "Is there any permanent damage?" And Cas goes, "Well, physically, minimal." Dean protests and protests. And Cas just goes, "There is no other way, and I will have to torture this kid, because I don't have the privilege not to!" [C sighs] No, he says, "I don't have the luxury not to" or something.

C: Yeah, "I can't wake him up and ask if that angel spoke with a stupid Scottish-French accent that sounds British!"

G: I specifically hate that like, in this scene, they like, linger on Cas's sad face [C laughs] when he goes, "I don't have the luxury." And then we go to Dean's face in like, shock but also a bit of understanding, and it's like fuck off! [C: Yeah.] Fuck off! Pissing me off.

C: Yeah. Supernatural has a thing where there's points where they're like, "I'm putting my foot down, something crosses a line regarding what my morals are," and there's other times when they're like, "It's difficult for me, emotionally, and only me, but it has to be done." And it's interesting where this one falls regarding that dichotomy.

G: I think Supernatural has always done this thing, and we have always pointed it out. But to them, it's not about the thing. It's not about doing the thing. It's about how you feel about doing the thing. [C: Yes.] So it's fine if you do a bad thing as long as you feel bad about it. [C: Yeah.] As long as you feel guilty, as long as it's the only choice, then it's completely fine that you do a horrible thing, as long as you have nightmares about it after. Fuck off! [C: Yeah. Yeah.] Pissing me off.

C: So Dean's good, because he went, "Nooo! Okay, though." about it.

G: "Noo!" And he's going to be sad about this for the rest of the day! [C laughs] And Sam, like, both of them allowed it to happen. Just to be completely clear, both Sam and Dean allowed it to happen. But because Dean protested and went, "Nooo! Oh, okay, you're sad? Oh, fine, but I'm still sad about it!" And Sam just went, "No, it's wrong. Oh, okay. Yeah. Go ahead," that makes Sam like, more egregious than Dean because- And I mean, Sam is more egregious than Dean because if both of them protested, maybe they would have had a chance. But like, [C: Yeah.] Dean also allowed it to happen, you know? [C: Yeah.] And the morality of Supernatural really shines through this episode. There's also the whole conversation about like, what does being a hunter mean.

C: Yeah, I mean, regarding like what it means to be a hunter, the reason that they're going after the staff, Cas is like, "Oh, so many more people are going to die." Why? I mean, it seems like, when they thought it was the dad, it seemed like he had three specific people he wanted to die, rightfully so. They're dead!

G: And this kid also had three specific people that they wanted to die. [C: Yeah.] And even the cop said like, "After us, it's probably done."

C: Yeah. So there's no further harm being prevented here. But it's just like, "Noo, they can't have this power, because maybe they'll be bad. Why? I don't know. Just give it to Heaven! We'll be good with the staff of Moses." So like, that doesn't make any sense. And then, what they do later for Aaron is that they force Balthazar to let go of his claim on his soul. And like, that's like, "Okay, this is within the realm of a hunter. This is a supernatural thing that's happening to the kid that's bad, so we're gonna make it stop." But like, they don't think about being sensitive when they're approaching the family for questioning. They don't think about doing anything other than torture to get the answer of which angel sold this to him. Like, they fucking leave him there for the cops because time is of the essence to get to Balthazar, but they don't think about like the emotional toll that, like, the cops getting him-

G: Having to wake up to the institution that killed your brother. Yeah.

C: Yeah, after remembering being tortured and in horrible pain, and then going home to your dad, who an angel knocked out just now.

G: And also, let's play out the situation, right? The cops come to him. They take him home. They go in. The dad has clippings of the dead police officers on the table. [C: Yes.] You think they're going to be benevolent to this guy who has been actively seeking out justice against them? Like, fuck off! I do think it really showcases the fundamental missteps in like, the philosophy of the show. Yeah. We have always said that Supernatural exists within a framework that is inherently racist. And like, I don't know. Supernatural has always played it out in a fantasy racism, always.

C: Yeah. And also, sometimes, real racism.

G: And then when they do the- This is something that we also said about Gordon, right? Like, they would try to attempt to do this thing where it's like, "No, but like, the monsters! The monsters!" You have an actual Black character on screen [C laughs] that you are mistreating to hell and back.

C: Yeah. And you also left him to the cops in Season 2, right?

G: Yeah. Yeah. And like, I don't even think the fucking race allegory that they're doing is good, like, number one. I don't think it's particularly good to go, "No, but the vampires are the equivalent of people of color!" [C laughs]

C: Yeah, you know how people of color, in order to live, they have to suck white people's blood?

G: Yeah, but like, that is what Supernatural is doing, like, in that episode, that was explicitly pretty much what they were doing, like, pretty explicitly. And so to want to do that, and then to turn around and go, "But we don't have to treat any of the actual Black characters that we have on the show with any dignity whatsoever. Don't worry about it," like, okay. Fuck off.

C: I guess another thing I was thinking about is that, you know, Aaron's a kid who's taking revenge on cops who murdered his brother in like, the show that's about brothers [G: Taking revenge, yeah.] who love each other who take revenge on other people because of their brothers and also like, make pretty much every character a mirror to one of the brothers because the way for you to feel compassion for a character in Supernatural is by going, [both] "They're just like Sam and Dean for real!" And obviously, I don't think that doing a direct one-to-one of like, being killed by demons and being killed by racist cops is like, a good move for Supernatural, but I think there's also a way for them to connect with Aaron and like, talk to him more in a way that it's like, "I fully understand what you did, and like, you also love your brother, I also love my brother," etc etc as a way of like, I don't know, just making him a character that the audience connects to more and all of that, and they just skip over it. Like, it seems like they don't even consider doing any kind of parallels, and that's-

G: The thing is is that is Supernatural's language. It sounds like, yeah, they probably shouldn't do this fucking parallel thing, but that is what they do. That is how the show communicates it, to its audience that like, this is a character that we're supposed to care about or this is a storyline we're supposed to connect to. That is how they do it. And so the fact that they don't do it at all, they don't extend that familiarity, or that- they don't extend that like, generosity in terms of thought towards this kid. Also, this kid is like, 14! [laughs] Like, it's a kid for real. They don't extend that to this kid and this family, I do think, as you said, like, speaks to what Supernatural thinks you the audience should feel about this. Like, "No, they're other." [C: Yeah.] Is Season 6 going to be like this? Is Sera Gamble- What's gonna happen? I mean, time is progressing.

C: Ugh. I don't know. Right. Last episode Bobby John, not good.

G: Yeah. Like, time is progressing in Supernatural, the show, and also the writer's room. It's progressing. And so at some point it should be- It should get better. Like, at least? [C laughs] You know?

C: I don't know. Progress isn't linear.

G: But they find new ways. Supernatural: We Will Find a Way. [both laugh] That's their tagline.

C: Yeah, Supernatural is progressing in the ways that it will put racism in its show.

G: Yeah. They do end up torturing this kid. And the way they do it is like, while the kid is screaming, it goes to Dean, making a sad face. And yeah, Cas is done. We never pan to this kid ever again. I don't think we ever see him on camera ever again, except accidentally when Cas is having that fight scene.

C: Some peripheral shots lying on the bed at points.

G: Cas is like, "Oh, yeah, I had a good friend, and it's this good friend who is doing all this. I thought he died." Dean is asking questions. Cas just goes, "Balthazar. I wonder." And then an angel like, appears in the room and goes, "Oh, yeah, Balthazar. You finally said it. Thanks, Cas. Now I have a name." And then the angel starts attacking Cas, and they start having a fight scene, and the angel goes, "Oh, by the way, Raphael says, hello." It's a fight scene. The setting of this room is like, it's in a high-rise building, and they must be in the seventh floor or something. Cas throws him and the angel out of the window. They both end up landing on Sam's car, the other angel on Sam's hood and Cas like, right in the middle, and it is pretty cool because like, Sam and Dean look down, and Cas is like, embedded into he car, and he like, gets himself out of there, and as he does, the metal squishes further. Very fun. And the angel disappears, and then, you know, there's the loud, blaring alarm of Sam's car. It's completely fucking totaled.

C: Sam goes, "My car!" [laughs]

G: And Dean just smirks and goes, "Okay, silver lining." Also, not to be, you know, a Destiel shipper, but I do find it completely amusing when Cas throws himself down, and then Sam and Dean both peek the first time- like, Sam, of course, has a distressed face because of his car, and Dean is doing like a little gasp, like a [gasps], which is very fun. An impressed little face.

C: Yeah. RIP to Sam's car.

G: Yeah. RIP to this Dodge Charger from 2006.

C: Yeah. Does he ever get a new car?

G: Well in Season 7, they change cars always. They have to hide the Impala.

C: Oh, but like, he and Dean aren't like, living and working together anymore. He needs a car to go on his solo hunts. I'd assume he'd get a new one.

G: Maybe he will. Yeah.

C: Okay, I hope he does. You know I'm a big proponent of the Sam Driving League.

C: Cas teleports back into the room and tells them that the angel he fought was a soldier of Raphael. Cas starts setting up the ritual to find Balthazar, but Dean's like, "No no no. Answer questions like, right now. Cas, what is up?" And he explains that there's a civil war going on in Heaven where Raphael and his followers want to rule Heaven, but "many other people" don't. And he doesn't say who that other camp wants to take over, but I guess it's him. [laughs] Everyone hates him and wants him to die, though.

G: Yeah, exactly.

C: Yeah, he goes, "I and many others, the last thing we want is to let him take over," and [laughs] many others is like one or two other people.

G: One guy. [C laughs] "Many others" is him and then half of Balthazar’s heart. Like, Balthazar don't even give a fuck! [both laugh]

C: Yeah, yeah, it's just Castiel, Cas, Cass with 2 S's.

G: It is hilarious, later on, he kills that angel, and then he goes, "Why won't any of you listen to me?" [both laughing] "Why won't any of you listen to meee? Now I have to kill you!"

C: Yeah, and I know he's having his emotional, mournful moment or whatever, but I don't care! [both laugh]

G: Yeah, that guy sucks! Go back to being eye candy, Cas. [C laughs]

C: He says that whoever has all these powerful, Heavenly weapons is going to win the war, so that's why he finds the staff of Moses so important. And what Raphael wants to continue and end the- or to continue the Apocalypse to its end because he's a "traditionalist." And Dean goes like, "Cas. Why didn't you tell us?" And Cas says that he was ashamed and expected more from his brothers. Why would he? They were all for the apocalypse!

G: Well, first of all, I just find it hilarious that it's like, "Why didn't you tell me?" "I was ashamed because my brother sucks so bad." If you truly were ashamed, you would have kept that to yourself, Cas. [C laughs] I'm gatekeeping shame.

C: Not even a top 15 Mitski song, I would say. It's not bad, but.

G: To be clear, my complaint is that they deliver it with no subtlety, and I wish it was something that was went through more- Like, they don't just say it in here, we see it in actuality, that's how we figure it out kind of deal. Yeah.

C: Yeah, I did write down, "I think Misha Collins is a bad actor" [laughs] when this line came up.

G: Yeah. I thought he was a bad actor in, "You think I came because you called?" But also, to be fair, that's just a bad line to give to Cas, I feel. [C: Yeah.] Cas would say, "I did not come here because you called me, Dean." Like, that's a Cas line. [C: Yeah.] "You think I came here because you called?" Fuck off. [C laughs] Who the fuck is writing this? Ben Edlund! ... I will not threaten you in any way, shape, or form. [C laughs]

C: Ben Edlund, I hope you live a long life, and that when you die, it's not in my country. [both laugh] [G: Yeah.] But yeah, I think the fact that there's no pause before he says, "I was ashamed." I think that was the acting choice that I thought was quite bad. But it's also not a very well-written line.

G: It's like they forgot how to write Cas or something. I think because they were leaning- I think with the Cas scenes this episode, they were really leaning a lot into the comedy of him, just the absurdity of his character, that I don't think they really did well with the like, more emotional parts or whatever. [C: Yeah.] Not some of the comedy also, but like, there are scenes that are funny with him. Like, I found him amusing in like, "Sam, Dean, I spent the last year-" like, that was funny. The "I wasn't gonna mention it" was funny. When he said, "That is still the saying," [C laughs] like, that is pretty funny. But like, there's just, you know, some lines here and there and the more emotional lines that are like, yeah, I think they're still feeling this character out.

C: Raphael wants the apocalypse because he's quote-unquote "a traditionalist"? The last time Raphael talked about why or just his general thoughts about God and the Apocalypse was 5.03, right? [G: Yeah.] I didn't review that scene before this episode. I should do it now. Do you recall what his deal was?

G: Well, his deal was predominantly "God is not here."

C: So yeah, right, it was "God's not here." "So you think you can do whatever you want?" He's upset that God ran off and disappeared, left no instructions and a world to run. "We're tired. We just want it to be over. We just want Paradise." I don't know. Is that super traditionalist? Like, part of traditionalist stuff is thinking that it's God's will and all of that, right? For the Apocalypse to happen? But like, in 5.03, it seems very clearly like-

G: "We're tired."

C: "I'm upset at being abandoned, and if we just go through with this apocalypse thing, and if Michael wins in some way, then we'll like end up in the good universe where there's paradise on Earth because of all the suffering that I saw on Earth in the last century."

G: I suppose it is his enemy, Castiel, who's characterizing him right now.

C: [laughs] Yes.

G: It is a possibility that his philosophy is different. I'm not holding out my breath for it, because it's Supernatural, but I do think- I don't think Raphael really is the person to have made into a villain of Season 6, which seems to be what they're doing.

C: I guess Michael's in the cage. They already established Gabriel as a little scamp, and Lucifer's Lucifer. But yeah, I don't- I feel like Gabriel had villain potential.

G: Yeah, but you see, Gabriel is lovable, and Raphael is stern, and so we know how it goes.

C: I don't know. Isn't there also this super monster thing going on anyway? That could have just been the conflict.

G: Um, yeah, we'll figure that out as we go. [C: Okay.] I think you would be surprised by how related they are. [both laugh]

C: Thank you for your subtlety, Grey.

G: Again, I don't really remember the intricacies of the plot of Season 6. But like, those are a thing that are together. Forevah, even. Or something.

C: Got it. I mean, yeah, I think Cas is just being flattening in his characterization. But, as you said, [G: Yeah, but also Supernatural.] I don't really think that Raphael will have a chance to really explain himself at any point during the season. [G: Yeah.]

G: And like, I don't know. It does make me sad that they're like really intent on making Raphael like, evil or whatever. [C: Mm.] I don't know. I feel like there is value to- Because like, if you look at the four archangels, you know, you have Lucifer who hates God, and his response is to like, hate God. You have Michael, who still believes in his dad, and then you have Gabriel, who hates his dad and the response- or he doesn't seem to hate his dad. [C: Yeah, he's swad.] He seems to be mad at his brothers. His anger is externalized towards his brothers or something. You have Raphael, who's like, mad at God. His response is to feel defeated. And like, you know, we have talked about how having all these four archangels who are like the brothers of the show- not, you know what I mean. [C laughs] They are portrayed as brothers with brother dynamics, with a dad who is absent and harsh. I don't think it's productive to have yet another brother be the villain. [C: Yeah.] And like, I don't know. I think it does speak to something about Supernatural that they were like, "And Gabriel is going to be the one who we love. We wuv him. Wuv him!" Like, fuck off.

C: Yeah. And he has multiple episodes where all he does is antagonize and torture Sam and Dean, but he still gets his little redemption moment.

G: Yeah. And Raphael gets nothing?

C: So what's that about? And stern characters, Cas started as a stern character, and [G: Yeah.] you know, they kept running with him, and now everybody wuvs him, etc etc. So it's not just that they were like, "Raphael's no fun." They've shown that they can make a stern character fun. Cas is mostly there for comic relief, in fact. But like-

G: And I do think there was a time when the general fandom consensus and also you and I, I feel, we brought this to the podcast as well is the idea that the fans don't react to certain characters well, so the show doesn't develop them. I think more and more, I'm like, "That's just bullshit, man." If the show wants to do it, they can. [C: Yeah.] If they wanted to commit to Cas not being here anymore, they could have done that. [C: Yeah.] Like yeah, people are gonna complain and gonna stop watching and gonna send feathers to your office where you have workers that are allergic, but like, [both laugh] you know, you could have committed to it. And like, that's an extreme case. The Cas thing is an extreme case because it's like, you killed a character that they want to be in the show. But, for example, in situations where it's like, you have a character in the show, and the audience is not reacting to that character well, it's not like it's automatically like, "Ugh, damn it! Now we have to kill them." [C: Yeah.] That's not like your only option. You can do other thing!

C: Yeah, have you considered writing good? [G laughs]

G: Have you considered considering your writing options? [C laughs] Yeah, like, there is a point where it's like, yeah, I think the show just doesn't give a fuck to do it.

C: They came in with Gordon knowing that he was going to be a villain, so they didn't bother. [G: Yeah.] They did the same thing with Uriel, and now the same thing with Raphael.

G: And they can go like, "Oh, but you see, we tried," and it's like, well, maybe if you tried harder, [laughs] you could have done something with it!

C: So Cas takes some of Dean's blood for the ritual because Dean is his favowite. The police are showing up because of like, the whole car alarm, two people crashing on top of a car situation. Cas has tracked down Balthazar's location and says, "Let's go." And Dean goes, "Wait, wait, wait! What about Aaron?" And Cas goes, “Don't you think the police will take him home?” And it just cuts.

G: You can just teleport him like that! Like, you can just literally go [C: Yeah, it's very fast.]- you can just snap, and you're back there.

C: Yeah, and I don't- I was thinking about the purpose of this line. And I think it's for Supernatural to reiterate that not all cops are bad. Because, like, it cuts after that. There's no Dean face reaction shot. It cuts like what Cas says is obvious. Of course they'll take him home, it'll be fine.

G: I thought the intention was to show that Cas is heartless now and doesn't give a fuck.

C: I think that that is possible, but I feel like the way that they've done that is like, Dean face reaction shots.

G: Have Dean react, yeah.

C: And there was no Dean face reaction shot. This was just like, Cas saying a statement and then it cutting, so to me, it read as like a "Well duh, they will." And just as like a "So don't worry! Not all cops are bad. These ones will take him home, and he'll be real happy about it." But it could also be what you said.

G: I think it could also be the whole, like, what is the role of a hunter? "Oh, this is out of our bounds. We don't have to take this kid home. It's not our responsibility."

C: Yeah, "We kidnapped him, but we don't have to take him home."

G: Yeah. Now they're in a fucking- in the lawn of a mansion. Sam and Dean basically stay outside, and it's just Cas who comes in, and there's this scene where there's like- you know those fancy stairs in fancy houses? And there's a giant fucking frog sitting on the railing, right in the middle. And Cas looks at it, and the frog looks at him and croaks, and there's like, close-ups of both of them. And then, like, you know, he goes up. He follows where the music is. What is with the gag with the frogs? Balthazar says it later. I still don't understand it. Am I missing something?

C: I don't know. It's a plague, and he was turning some angels into frogs?

G: So that frog was an angel.

C: Or they were jumping out of the throat of the dead body of the angel that attacked Cas earlier.

G: Balthazar is there, and he has a ambiguous accent. I'm pretty sure it's British. I think we can just say it's a British accent.

C: But is it?

G: Listeners, if you think this accent is a British accent, send us an ask saying that Cas should go into heat. Thank you! Nobody, absolutely nobody has done it still.

C: Yeah, I think we're supposed to take that as a message. [G laughs]

G: Anyway, the angel that Cas duked it out with earlier is now dead on the floor, and there's like, a frog coming out of his mouth. And Castiel is like, "Balthazar, this is serious shit. I thought you were dead. I grieved you." And Balthazar’s like, "Yeah, no. I needed to die so that I can live!" Cas asked, like, "You stole the staff of Moses?" And Balthazar says he stole a lot of things and that he needed to do it because nothing's ever going to change in Heaven, and so like, just get a weapon, get out of there, and run and like, live your life! And Balthazar is like, "Whatever you need, Cas. Just ask. I'll give it to you." And Cas goes like, "I need the weapons." And Balthazar's like, "Oh, noo!" And Balthazar actually says that "The reason why I've done all this is because you tore up the script. I'm just following your footsteps. It's a new era of no rules, no destiny, just utter and complete freedom." And Cas is upset that this is what he did with that freedom. And Cas finally mentions that like, it's a civil war up there. "If we can beat Raphael, we can end this. Just give me the weapons!" And Balthazar says, "You know what's so funny about you. You actually believe you can stop the fighting. Just leave, Cas. Just fake your own death and go." Cas says, "Well, Raphael now knows that you're alive, so tough luck!" And Balthazar's like, "Well, whatever. I'm just going to leave, and I really am happy to see you, even if you still have that stick up your ass." He leaves- Well, first, there's like, big thunder, and he's like, "Oh, yeah, Raphael's coming. Well, tell him to bite me!" and then he leaves, and it's just Cas now. Raphael and I think two other angels come in. Sam and Dean are like, downstairs, and then an angel shows up, and Sam goes like, "Hey, I'm here, and I have an angel blade." And then another angel shows up beside Sam, and it's like, "Well, you think you can knife fight an angel?" And we go to Dean, who's like, "Who said anything about knife fights?" and then he does the sigil, and it expels the angels out of there. You know what? I do love when they do this shit. I love when they like bluff things out, and it's like, "Oh, no, Sam's in danger! But only because they planned it! And Dean has an even bigger gun!" [C laughs] Like, love it.

C: It's pretty fun.

G: And Cas is inside, and there's another angel that's coming on to him, and the angel's like walking and walking towards him. [laughs] And Cas is going, "Nooo! Don't do this, pwease!" [C laughs] And then he's like just saying, "No, I don't want to hurt you. I don't want to hurt you." And literally, the angel is like five feet away from him, [both laugh] and he throws a fucking angel blade into his chest. And the angel dies, collapses on the ground, [C: Do we even see the wings?] and Cas just goes, "Why won't any of you listen?" What?

C: Did we even get wings on this guy?

G: No, I don't think so. I think they DGAF. [C: Boo!] I don't think we see the body fall to the ground with the angel wings. And then Raphael shows up. They're like fighting, I suppose. And Raphael is about to fucking kill this guy when suddenly, Balthazar shows up, and he has a like, a giant rock of salt, I would assume. And it starts glowing. Raphael turns into a pillar of salt. It is so fucking corny that Balthazar has to go, "Oh, yeah, same thing happened to Lot's wife." [C: Yeah.] Like, fuck off! We all read Slaughterhouse-Five!

C: I know already. We all fucking know about Lot's wife. We've read the poetry and the Bible.

G: Cas goes, "You came back!" Balthazar's like, "Yeah, no. Raphael's gonna need to find a new body, so like, it's fine." And Dean shows up and drops a lighter onto a ring of holy oil. [C: Somehow.] How did they ever plan this shit? How do they ever plan this shit?

C: I don't know. Well, you know, we were only getting like, I think, shots of like, Balthazar and Cas's faces during that conversation. [both laugh] Maybe Dean was crawling around on the floor in a circle around him with holy oil, we just didn't see it in the shot!

G: Yeah, he was actually Naruto running around Balthazar this whole time. It just wasn't relevant to our journey. [C: Exactly.] Balthazar calls Dean a hairless ape. He seems to have some hair.

C: Yeah. And is it blond or brown?

G: Let's not get into it. [both laugh] And Dean is like, "Okay, what you're going to do is you're going to remove the marker off Aaron Birch's soul." And Balthazar is like, "Wow! You're going to let this fucking hairless ape talk to me like this, Castiel?" And Cas goes, "Yes." And Balthazar's like, "Okay, fine." And then he clears the boy's debt. "His soul is his own." We, of course, never see this, never see a follow-up, never see anything. [C: Yeah.] They don't even seem to give a fuck about the like- Again, the soul thing is probably fine. They did just torture this kid, though. Are we not gonna acknowledge that? Did he also remove the torture? Like- [laughs] What's happening?

C: Yeah, we know that Cas can remove memories. I feel like it would be a kindness to remove the memory of the torture, but he doesn't have the luxury!

G: Dean asks, "Why are you buying souls, anyway?" And Balthazar goes, "Well, in this economy, it's probably the only thing worth buying."

C: Okay, sure, Balthazar. I know that Cas has-

G: Is he a crypto bro? [both laugh] Maybe he is a crypto bro. [C: Maybe.] Maybe if we stink of souls as some sort of cryptocurrency, then everything makes sense.

C: Well, Cas swallows all the souls in Purgatory in order to have enough power to defeat Raphael, so is this a similar situation? But okay, why does Balthazar need all that shit if all he wants to do is have twelvesomes and hang out, as he said he was doing on Earth?

G: Have what? Souls? You'll figure that out next time.

C: Okay, cool. [laughs]

G: Balthazar is like, "Okay, well, now, you gotta release me." And Dean's like, "No, we don't!" but Cas does.

C: Wait wait wait, okay. So if an angel has the power to reduce the flames of holy fire [G: But only if they're outside.], why don't the angels in the circle do it and then leave?

G: Because they're like, powered down on the inside.

C: Okay. Is that real?

G: No. [C laughs] But I assume it is. [C: Okay.] How else are you gonna explain this?

C: That they just didn't think about it too hard?

G: Cas tells Balthazar like, "My debt to you is cleared." So they're equal now, because, you know, Balthazar turned Raphael to a pillar of salt and Cas let him go! And Dean, as Balthazar leaves, Dean shouts at Cas, "Are you out of your mind?!" But as he turns around, Cas is also gone. [C: Yay!] And he's like, "Oh, fucking angels!" Well, he says, "Frigging angels. Come on!"

C: "Come on!"

C: You know, we're post-case, and Sam and Dean are trying to cram all the stuff in Sam's car trunk into the Impala now.

G: There's a scene where they pick up like- Sam finds a Halloween costume! [C: Yeah.] - just like me with Dean Winchester - in the like far end of the trunk, and he takes it out, and it's a mask of the monster from Season 1, Episode 2. [C: Yeah.] But they don't say it like that. [laughs] They don't say, "Oh, this is the monster from Season 1, Episode 2!" They just say it straight up. And like, yeah, Dean is like, "Oh, yeah, that's for Ben's Halloween costume." with the implication that he made it because it's an accurate representation, apparently. [C: Right.] Which is pretty fun.

C: So they have a convo where Dean's asking Sam like, "Are you okay? You've been kind of sus. Why weren't you against Cas torturing a child?"

G: "Are you a child torturer, Sam?" [C laughs] And Sam basically goes, "Well, you are. But like, I don't have to be. But I am, so who give a fuck?"

C: Dean says, "It just seems like you didn't care," and Sam goes, "You're wrong!" Dean says that something's up with him, and "I feel like something happened to you in Hell. I understand that it really fucks somebody up." He says, "Believe me, I know what that does to a guy," and Sam says, "To you."

G: "To you." To one guy.

C: So funny! So fucking funny!

G: No, this is hilarious.

C: And Dean's like, "What?" And Sam goes, "You know what it does to you. It tortured you, you know. I think it still does. But I'm okay." [both laugh] He's soo funny. [G: He's so funny!] He said, "RIP to you, but I'm different."

G: Literally, and he is.

C: He is! Dean's like, "What, you’re saying you’re stronger than me?" And Sam says, "No, I'm just saying, RIP to you, but we're different."

G: Yeah. "I'm built different, Dean."

C: And they drive off.

G: That's it. What did we think about this episode? [C: Ugh.] I think they're building up to like- In terms of what it contributes to the show, they are building up to something. [C: Yeah.] I wish they didn't use antiblack police brutality as a way to build up that Sam and Cas are slowly turning evil or whatever the fuck.

C: [laughs] Yeah. I agree with that statement.

G: Also, just like that IMDb user once said, what is up with Supernatural and torture? What the fuck is their deal with torture?

C: Maybe if Sam and Dean learned some people skills. Crowley is supposed to be the negotiator, and like, he doesn't even-

G: His negotiation is just torture. [laughs]

C: Yeah, just torture and then killing some other people and being like, "You'll die if you don't tell me!" [both laugh] Like, what is this? It's like these writers don't even believe in the power of the word!

G: Yeah! Best Line/Worst Line?

C: Uh... "To you." [laughs] is my best line.

G: Is your best line? No, yeah, that's pretty fun.

C: Yeah. The people skills rusty multi-dimensional intent is good, too.

G: I think on the sequence of funny Cas lines, I do find the "That is still the saying, yes?" [C laughs] quite hilarious. And I mean, offshoot of it, "Why would any of you listen to me?" [both laugh] is also really fucking funny if I'm being for real.

C: I don't think it was intended to be.

G: I mean, I know, but it is.

C: And is it the best line?

G: I would say it's pretty hilarious.

C: Yeah, worst line, "Don't you think the police will take him home?"

G: I think Cas saying, "I don't have the privilege." and the way they frame that as like, a reveal to Dean or whatever [C: Yeah.] that allows him to accept the fate of this kid who is not his to accept.

C: Don't like it!

G: Okay. What's our next one? Spread those sheets?

C: Yeah. There is racism.

G: I do think it's a 4 or 5. I think it's fundamental to the episode, [C: Yeah, I agree.] and I think it's really bad.

C: Yeah. Well, which which of the two are we going for?

G: What do you think about it?

C: I don't know.

G: Have we ever done a 5?

C: We did a 5 for "Hammer of the Gods," but I don't think everything needs to be "Hammer of the Gods" to be a 5.

G: So let's go 5.

C: Yeah, I think 5 is reasonable. Misogyny, I think a bit with the sex worker at the beginning.

G: 1?

C: Yeah, 1 makes sense. I don't remember any homophobia. We did say there was queerbaiting but like-

G: I don't think that's a point, yeah. [C: Yeah.] What's our next one. Ratings.

C: IMDb. If I had to guess, I'd say this is the highest of- Oh, wait! Who's- I'm odd. Yeah, okay. I'd say this is the highest of Season 6 so far in terms of what I think people would enjoy.

G: We have two 7.8s.

C: We have a 7.6 and a 7.8. So yeah, I don't know.

G: The trajectory says that this would be higher.

C: Yeah, but I don't know how much higher because I don't know what the new standards of Season 6 are. So I'm just gonna say an 8.0?

G: Oh, me too!

C: Sad!

G: 8.0. Okay, let's see.

C: Are we diversifying our portfolio? No, you're just going to go with it?

G: Okay, I'm gonna go 8.1, then. [C: Okay.] Okay, let's see. Ha! It's an 8.1!

C: Oh! Congratulations!

G: Thank you.

C: What are people saying?

G: "I really enjoyed this episode. Castiel is back." "The way he and the brothers communicate is just great. I really enjoyed their reunion," blah blah blah.

C: [laughs] "This is not our Sam. Sam would never hire a prostitute."

G: Noo, is this something they really said?

C: [laughs] Yeah.

G: This one says, "Something is still off with Sam...and his new shiny car just had to go :), so at least that part will be right now :)" "Balthazar is pretty darn hot and interesting"? [C laughs] Has anyone ever felt that way apart from this person? "Cas is back!"

C: I think it's because people like British accents, which may or may not be his accent. [both laugh]

G: "The gore level moved way up this episode."

C: Yeah, this person thinks that the gore level is up because Sera Gamble likes more gruesome scenes. I believe it. You've mentioned this as a bit of a Season 6 staple.

G: Yeah. Many people love Cas.

C: Yeah, okay, this episode mentions that it "apes Black Lives Matter for social color, and it all feels cheap and ill-planned."

G: Yeah, it does. Okay, this one. I'm gonna read this whole thing. This one is 2/10, "Awful second half." "So here's what's wrong with this episode, and what will eventually kill the series." [C laughs] Written in October 9, 2010, by the way, so they don't know anything. "We start off with a bang as three police officers die incredibly gory deaths. Turns out someone has put a hex on the three, and Sam and Dean are in town to check things out. So far, so good. The hex is caused by misuse of Moses' staff, which has been stolen by an angel, and Sam and Dean must retrieve the staff just as if they were in an episode of Warehouse 13 or Friday the 13th - The TV series." [both laugh] Evocative. "From there, it's all downhill, as we find out is heaven is still at war. The rest of the episode is dull stuff with Castiel (who was OK for a story arc but not as a recurring character) [C laughs] has words with some other angels, and fights breakout. Dull, dull, dull. The thing that killed GHOST WHISPERER"--[C: Your favorite!] A TV show I love, by the way.--"was an increasingly maudlin tone and the overuse of Hewitt's real-life beau in a recurring role as a college prof. The poor guy couldn't act his way out of a paper bag, [laughs] and this plus the maudlin stuff eventually did in GW. The overuse of heavenly wars, and Castiel himself will kill SUPERNATURAL. [both laugh] But then, the show has been on for six seasons. And as much as I'd like to see it go another six, the writers have hit bottom for plots. [C: So true.] We watched THE X-FILEs die a painful death in its last two or three seasons. Now we apparently have to witness the same for SUPERNATURAL. It is a real shame." [C laughs]

C: It is. A real shame.

G: It's literally fine!

C: This person has 700 reviews.

G: I don't know. I'm holding out hope that Season 6 may not be that bad, but given the trajectory of where we are right now as people and as a podcast, probably not. [laughs] And the TV show Supernatural.

G: That’s it for this episode of Busty Asian Beauties. [C laughs] Next week, we will be discussing Season 6, Episode 4: "Weekend at Bobby’s"! [C: Nice.] Nice. Leave us a rating or a review wherever you get your podcasts.

C: Follow us on social media! We are on Tumblr at bustyasianbeautiespod.tumblr.com. Our official tag is #BABPod, B-A-B-POD. Thanks to everyone who's donated to our Ko-Fi at ko-fi.com/bustyasianbeautiespod, which is where our outtakes live, and check out our merch at babpod.redbubble.com.

G: You can email us your feedback, comments, or inquiries at [email protected]. See you guys next time! [both] Bye!

[guitar music]

#transcript

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bustyasianbeautiespod · 13 days ago

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Episode 108: Hello, It's Allergies. Hello, It's Rhinitis. And this is Stuffy Asian Beauties.

Today, Crystal & Grey discuss Supernatural 6.04 - Weekend at Bobby's. We talk about: Bobby absolutely killing it at the grill, the process of tricking a priest into blessing your weapons, and Sam and Dean meeting their rivals, another hunter duo that is like a kid to Bobby.

Episode 108 Outtakes: Traipse through the Scottish Culinary Scene

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Transcript Soon!

#episode #babpod #spn #supernatural #supernatural podcast #season 6

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bustyasianbeautiespod · 13 days ago

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thanks to babpod i now have a comprehensive guide for the correct metaphor for every person i meet

#soooooo true

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bustyasianbeautiespod · 17 days ago

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Episode 106 Transcript: Vroom Vroom Bitches It’s Impala Time!

[intro guitar music]

G: Hello, it's Grey.

C: Hello, it's Crystal.

G: And this is Busty Asian Beauties, a Supernatural commentary podcast where I, someone who has seen the show many times...

C: And I, someone who only knows the show through social media, discuss every single episode of Supernatural from start to finish. Also, we are both Asian.

G: Both Asian! For today's episode, we will be discussing Season 6, Episode 2: "Two and a Half Men," written by Adam Glass, directed by John Showalter. This was aired in October 1, 2010.

C: This is the first Adam Glass.

G: Yeah. Adam Glass wrote many episodes, none of them I can defend. [laughing]

C: I honestly think this one was fine.

G: Um, I don't know. I would say it's incredibly boring.

C: Really? Interesting. What was boring about it?

G: Very much so. I don't know. I think I was just going through a knitting slump, honestly, [laughing] while I was watching this episode.

C: Yeah, I mean, there was a baby on screen that was cute. I feel like that's enough to retain my interest.

G: Yeah. Love a cute baby. But like, I don't know. I feel like it's just- it's a little bit flat. We're still at the part of the season where we're building up to things, and I feel like because the last season we were in, Season 5, in case we forgot how to count, [C laughs] we start the season running, you know? 'Cause it's Season 4 and Season 5. They're like so continuous. But I feel like Season 6 really had to start from scratch, obviously. New showrunner, new concept, new core, blah blah blah, but it feels so like, slow... and boring... eugh. Maybe when Cas shows up.

C: You want the larger plot to be part of it more?

G: It's not that I want the larger plot. It's just I want things to pick up a little bit because, like, you know, "Oh, Sam's so suspicious, and Dean's so sad that he has to leave Lisa and Ben." Like, okay, we get it. [laughs]

C: Yeah, it's true. [G laughs] Sam's literally normal and fine and a nice person.

G: No, it's so funny, because in the flashbacks that they do for this Episode 2, in the "Then" sequence, he's literally- they only show the scenes where he was acting completely normal. [C laughs] And in this episode, he's also completely normal. He's normal! So yeah, I don't know.

C: Yeah, I'm assuming that he starts acting more soulless once that gets revealed?

G: That he is actually soulless? Yeah. [C: He's fully normal.] When he starts working out. Showing his pecs off and stuff.

C: Yeah. [laughs] That's when you know.

G: That's when you know. You're like, "Nah. Sam's not here." [laughs] That's Jared Padalecki.

C: Yeah, that's Jared Padalecki, also known as soulless Sam Winchester.

G: Exactly. Well, what did you know about this episode before going in? Can I take a guess? Obviously, you knew about Bobby John.

C: I knew about Bobby John. I didn't know what episode Bobby John would be in.

G: Yeah. I knew it was this. [C: He's the half man.] I think it's one of the things I remember the most in Season 6. [laughs] Like, if I were to list things I remember from Season 6, I would say the entirety of "The Man Who Would be King," fisting scene, [C: Yes.] Bobby John, Sam working out. [laughs] That's it.

C: Is that from "spin me right 'round" or something?

G: Yeah, I love that AMV. Let's reblog it. It's so wonderful. [C laughs] There's a part in that AMV where he turns around, like, it's different shots of him turning around, and in one of them, his like, boob like, does the thing. [C: Mm.] You know what I mean, right? [C: Yeah.] The little- I don't know. What is it called? He flexes his pecs or whatever. [C: Yeah.] And it's fine. [both laugh]

C: What?

G: No, because I was gonna say, "And it's beautiful!" But in the last minute, I was like, "We need to be honest with ourselves." [C laughs] So I said, "It's fine."

C: Okay. Yeah.

G: What else did you know about this episode?

C: Like, nothing. I just didn't know what it was. [G: Yeah.] I was assuming the parts where Dean's like, "Oh, and I've been acting like a prison guard, and that's not how I am. That's what my daddy was like!" Like, I've seen screenshots of that.

G: It felt very much like that scene in- Is it The Nice Guys? The one with Ryan Gosling? where he was like, "You're not a murderer!"

C: You're acting like I've seen this.

G: No, but at some point, he's telling this woman who admitted to killing people or something. He's like, "You're not a murderer!" and the cop's like, "She literally killed people." And he goes, "I mean, on the inside." [C laughing] That's the Dean situation right now. I also- what is it? I mean, surely you have also seen- the baby parts, obviously, but also the parts with Baby, the car.

C: What part?

G: When he fucking disrobes her or whatever.

C: Oh. Sure, yeah, probably that's been in an AMV. I just assume he's done that several times in his life. It's a pretty generic-looking image.

G: That's literally in the clicky AMV.

C: Oh, then, that's definitely on me for not recognizing it. I'm so sorry.

G: You know that part where Bobby goes, "And what are we supposed to do, genius?" [laughs] Like the AMV maker cut it so that the parts where it's Bobby's face that's on camera, [both laughing] they cut to the car. It's amazing. Love that AMV. Truly an iconic piece of art, and it should be in the MoMA.

C: The Library of Congress?

G: I said the MoMA. You're not listening to me!

C: I didn't hear it. I didn't hear it. I'm so sorry.

G: Well, sure, let's put it in the Library of Congress, also.

G: So we start with the episode "Then" sequence. I mean, it's just regular stuff. They just introduced what they fucking said last episode, except [laughs] we see Dean's best friend that he just let go in the fucking- did you see that? Did you catch that at all?

C: Oh, no! Was he in there briefly when they were explaining what a shapeshifter was?

G: Yeah, I think so. Or maybe that's a different guy, but it's the same episode. But I remember him, and I cherish him.

C: Just like Dean did, but failed to do enough.

G: This is true. That is still so funny. Why did they do that slow-mo shot?

C: [laughs] I don't know.

G: "Nooo!" [C laughing] And it's like, completely silent. Do you remember this? They like, mute all audio. [both laugh] Supernatural used to be good. Look where we are now. Feeling nostalgic about the best friend that Dean fucking can't let go or whatever. [C: Yeah.]

We start the episode in actually a pretty banger sequence where it's a house, and it's just typical background, and then suddenly, an incredibly bloody hand shoots up into the screen and like, you know, there's a lot of commotion. She's carrying a baby, and she's running through the house, and then she ends up hiding inside a room and getting under the bed. And there's scenes where she thinks the person who's hunting her down or whatever is going to enter the room, but then doesn't and doesn't. And then she turns to the side, and her husband is dead. This is a pretty good opener, I would say. Like it's very like, scream-scream horror. Is that a thing?

C: I don't know, man. [laughs] [G: I don't know.] Scream is a franchise. I don't know if it's a genre. I don't think I've heard it.

G: No, you know what I mean, right, though. It's like very horror that's like gaudy horror. I'm sure Danica has words for this, but I don't. [C: Yeah.] Shout out. And then she gets dragged out of the bed, and there's just a baby there that's like lying in there. [C: Yeah. It's been chillaxing.] Poor baby! The baby literally DGAF.

C: Yeah. She kept covering its mouth with her hand, which was covered in blood, and like, [laughs] couldn't you have used like, a part later down on your arm that wasn't covered in blood? [G laughs] Like, you don't want the baby to cry. I feel like making it taste blood is not the move. They can't even drink water!

G: [laughs] Literally.

C: So we cut to the Lisa household, and they have moved since the last episode because of Dean's fear that things are hunting them. And Dean's like, settling in. He has the Impala covered by a tarp in the garage, and there's guns and shit in it like always. So they're doing all the unpacking together with Lisa and Ben, and Ben's finally speaking for the first time in the season! [laughs]

G: Happy speaking!

C: Lisa asks, "What's up?" and he says, "Nothing." Hell yeah! [laughs] But yeah, generally-

G: Honestly, I do like the characterization of Ben and Lisa this episode. Do you agree? Disagree? Thoughts?

C: I liked the character- Okay. I think them together is fine and good. I think that- with Lisa, it's not that there are things that they wrote for her to say that I want to take away. I just want them to add more things for it to be good.

G: Yeah, I actually quite like the Lisa parts. I can't help sometimes but think that like, "What are they trying to do?" And I think my main concern is that her character- I think they're trying to do something with her, but everything that they're trying to do with her is tied to Dean, [C: Right.] which like, this is Supernatural. That's an old complaint, but it just makes me uncomfortable, I guess, because the way her character has been established, and the way her character has been blah blah, I don't know. There is just something to the concept of one of- We have two women in this season so far, you know, that was like, a presence this season. And it's Lisa and the woman in the thing that I don't know the name of. I don't know a single one of their names.

C: Gwen Campbell?

G: Is that her name? Well, yeah. And I don't know, it still feels a lot like, "Oh, we have a woman." [both laugh] You know what I mean? [laughs]

C: Yeah, but who knows?

G: Allegedly, I don't like misogyny. [both laugh]

C: Alleged by you, yeah. I just think that Lisa feels very rootless. Like, Dean's like, "Oh, and I'm parenting like this because of my dad." Like, what were Lisa's parents like?

G: That's a very good term for it. Yeah, she feels like she has no past.

C: Yeah, like she was here-

G: - just for Dean's life in the world to come, not the world that was, yeah.

C: Yeah. And like, she has a personality and a spirit in the scenes that she's in, and I like her presence and her energy. But yeah, I don't think she has a past, and I think you need to have a past to seem like a real person in some contexts.

G: Yeah. It's not about her. It's what the show keeps on trying to point out heavily.

C: Yeah. So the idea is that Ben's unhappy that they just had to up and move. Makes perfect sense. And Lisa's trying to be positive and cheer him up about it. And Ben and Lisa want to go out, want to explore the neighborhood, and Dean's being very cagey about everything, but it's very clear that he does not want them to leave the house. And he tells Ben, like, "Why are you going outside? You're gonna let Lisa unpack the kitchen all by herself?" And then when Ben's like, "Okay," he's like, "Okay, now me and Ben are gonna head out to a different room."

G: "And Lisa is gonna pack things up by herself." [C laughs] [C: Yep.] What did they do? What was Dean and Ben up to?

C: I'm not sure. I mean, maybe they were gonna unpack the kitchen. Maybe there were just more boxes to bring.

G: Yeah, they're just gonna pick up boxes. I mean, later, the scene where Ben is like, playing with the guns are like, it's like a separate scene, so it's not really that. Maybe they were just gonna pick up boxes.

C: Yeah, you're right. I'm sorry for accusing both of you of not helping Lisa unpack the kitchen.

G: Yeah. Now we go to the crime scene, and Sam is there. And honestly, when he picked up his phone and he started talking in his FBI suit, I did smile. You know, at the end of the movie, when things have been resolved and the main characters see each other again, and they share a smile or whatever [C: Yeah.], just like in Carol, that's how I felt. [both laugh] Like, I was like, "We're back. We're so back." I love a case episode. This one just doesn't hit it. I think just because it's not Sam and Dean, you know? I love a case episode that's like normal-schnormal case episode, but I guess this one isn't that. But I still love a case. And like, seeing Sam picking up the phone and being like, "Oh, here's the updates on the case." It's like, "Oh, love Supernatural!" [C laughs]

C: Yeah. I think how this suffers as a case episode is just that they put, "And, reminder! This is what a shapeshifter is!" in the "Then" sequence, and they spent so long this episode being like, "And we don't even know what this creature might be!" [G: Oh, yeah.] And it's like, well, I know, 'cause I saw the "Then" sequence. Sorry that you didn't see the "Then" sequence, but I did.

G: Yeah. It's a team effort. And they did not coordinate. [C: Yeah.] Sam is like, talking to the detective about like, "Where's the baby?" but they don't know where the baby is. We reveal a little bit later that like, this has been going on for a while. It's like multiple houses getting babies taken. Sam relays this information to Samuel, and honestly, I frowned. Like, that smile, [C laughs] that beatific smile that I was doing when Sam was investigating completely disappeared upon seeing this man's face. And he's saying that like, "Oh, we don't know what it is, so maybe it's just normal-schnormal people." And Sam eventually finds the fucking logo of the security company that does the security of the house, and he asked Samuel to go check it out. And then there's an interesting part here where Samuel tells Sam that like, "Oh, maybe it's just normal people." And Sam's like, "Okay, well, let's just leave it to the police." And Samuel was like, "Nooo! It's still like, bad. Whoever is doing the killing of the babies is bad nevertheless." And Sam like, does like a little like, "Ugh." [both laugh] Kind of real, man. [C laughing] This Sam's so real. I know he's supposed to be soulless this episode, but as we mentioned, he's literally fine.

C: Yeah. He really is fine.

G: I mean, it is the case we have been making in the past of like, you know, "It's about the blah blah blah blah blah blah." [laughs]

C: The case we've been making in the past is that it's about monsters and how they want to kill them or feel like they have a right to kill them rather than reducing harm in the world at large, [G: Yes.] that Samuel is addressing, correct.

G: Yeah. Beautiful translation. [C: Yeah.] And I don't know. But now, I'm like, "Go Sam!" [both laugh] If you don't wanna work, you don't wanna work! Let's go! [C: Yeah.]

We go back to Dean, and earlier, him and Lisa kind of agreed that they're going to scout around the place and look for somewhere to eat because, you know, Ben's been itchy to go outside, and he said yes, but then he orders pizza for the house. And when he turns around, Ben and Lisa are behind him, going like, "What the fuck? I thought we were gonna go out!" And he's like, "Oh, sorry I forgot!" [C laughs] He's acting a certain way.

C: Later, after lunch, presumably, Dean goes into the garage, and Ben is there by the Impala with the trunk open, holding his gun, and Dean freaks out, which I think makes sense. [G: Yeah.] And takes the gun from him-

G: - advocates for gun rights or whatever. Not gun rights. The other one. [laughs]

C: Gun wrongs?

G: Gun wrongs. He advocates for it. No, what is it? What is it called? [C: Oh!] Gun control. [C: Yeah, that one.] He advocates for gun control, yeah.

C: Yeah. So Ben is like, "Why are you freaking out so much? I just wanted to see this." And Dean is like, "Don't ever fucking open this trunk, dude." And Ben's like, "Well, I don't get it. Like, you had your own rifle when you were my age." How much does Ben know about Dean's childhood? [laughs] Like, he's been telling him?

G: He's telling Ben. I know, what is this?

C: It's fine. It has this weird-

G: I mean, honestly, I did appreciate that just for the reason that like, "Oh, they have conversations." [laughs] [C: Yeah.] They do talk, which is nice.

C: But yeah, Dean says, "Ben, mark my words. You will never, ever shoot a gun. Ever." And Ben says, like, "Well, okay. But thing is like, the reason that you're being all weird is that you think there's something coming for us. So I could just like, do what you do. You could teach me how to shoot." And Dean yells, "Shut up about the freaking gun, okay?!" And Ben starts- I don't know. He's upset and sad and feels like he's done something wrong, and he just keeps going, "Sorry. Sorry." Then he goes and locks himself in his room, and they play sad piano music [both laugh] about it. I think it's a decent scene, like basically all Supernatural scenes where they end up playing sad piano music, but the sad piano music makes it bad.

G: Do we have anything more to say about the Ben and Dean dynamic? Aside from like, it existing. [laughs]

C: The thing is, the show has already said- Dean turned to the camera and was like, "And it's like he's not my kid, but he is my kid." And Sam turned to the camera and was like, "And you're being just like Dad for real, Dean." Like, that's about it. [laughs]

G: Sorry, I completely forgot that we're in the show that just fully tells you the themes and motifs, sometimes terribly. [both laugh] Remember- I mean, obviously, it just happened a couple of weeks ago, but like the Season 5 finale is still insane to me the way [laughing] they ended with Chuck being like, "What is it about?" Kinda real.

C: Dean's still in the garage, and Lisa comes in and is like, "Hey, what happened? 'Cause I just heard from Ben that you yelled at him, and now he's really sad and upset." And Dean-

G: He's in the house playing sad piano music! What's that about? [C laughs]

C: Yeah. He's been locked in his room, where we put a piano, and he's been playing it, sadly.

G: Yeah, he was playing Shostakovich yesterday, and now he's just playing the fucking, Supernatural theme! [both laugh]

C: Why does she know what the Supernatural theme is? It is a TV show, according to “The French Mistake,” so. [G: Exactly.] Dean says, "Yeah, Ben didn't do anything." And Lisa goes, "What did you do?" And Dean goes, "He got into my tools. I shouldn't have gotten mad." And I don't know if that's a deliberate obfuscation of the fact that it was a gun, 'cause, I mean, he teaches Lisa how to load and shoot later, so she knows that he has guns in the house and in the Impala. I think he's just trying to quell any potential like- "Oh, this is regarding how we're in danger or whatever." But yeah.

G: I thought what you were gonna say is that he's trying to protect Ben. Because I feel like Lisa's also gonna get mad if he was like, "Ben, you were playing with guns."

C: Yeah, that's also possible. [G: Yeah.] But yeah. I mean, I feel like she might be able to deal with it in a way that was less yell-y, especially because Dean already did the yelling part. But Lisa asks, like, "Hey, you know, clearly something is up. You keep us in the house so much. Like, you should tell me what's going on." And Dean's saying, "I'm trying to keep us safe here." And she goes like, "I'm not arguing. You're the expert. It's just like, I'm just asking for an explanation. Like, what's up? Are we afraid of a specific monster or monsters in general?" Yeah, I mean, I do like her lines here. [G: Yeah.] Yeah.

G: I think, honestly, if I'm being honest, I really like their dynamic from Dean's perspective, right? Because like, I do think this kind of like stern but understanding thing is what Dean needs. Like, he needs someone who respects what he is and what his desires are. Happy bisexuality. [C laughs] But also like, "No, we can't do this." Like, you know, it's like, strict with what their boundaries are. Because Dean is- I feel like Dean is the type of person who needs to be told what needs to happen, and he needs also someone who can tell him that. And he has the instinct to respect those boundaries. Because I feel like in other times, he feels like he can cross it willy-nilly, or the boundaries are not there, and so he's finding it difficult. So I do think this is like, maybe Dean was right. Maybe if he was gonna live this kind of life long-term, it is gonna be with Lisa.

C: Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like that wasn't clear from the previous times that we saw her on TV.

G: Yeah, this is the first time that like, I'm engaging with it this way. The reason why I have a like a knee-jerk aversion to this is because again, we don't really get a lot of Lisa, just Lisa stuff, and so I like it from Dean's perspective, but like, I have no idea what Lisa's perspective is, and so I find it difficult to think of it as like a mutual or, you know, two-sided benevolent characterization. But I do think like- It does make me sad to think that like, yeah, Dean did have something good here, and he's about to lose it!

C: By memory wiping her?

G: By his boyfriend. Hell yeah! [both laugh] Love it!

C: I support gay rights and gay wrongs. Not this gay wrong, though. [G laughs] That's pretty fucked up.

G: Cas, get your shit together. [C laughs]

C: Yeah. Right, I guess from Lisa's perspective- 'Cause a lot of it is like, yeah, she's like, no bullshit, and like, she's not particularly upset or emotional by all these upheavals in her life, and that makes her like a good partner for Dean. [G: Yeah.] But like, I feel like the fact that she's so quickly like, "Okay. Okay." with all this makes it harder to connect to her. Like, I think she's portrayed as a character you want to be your girlfriend, not a character that you could be yourself, I think.

G: Yeah. Ah, okay, I get what you mean. Yeah yeah yeah. Like, they're writing her from Dean's perspective. [C: Yeah, yeah.] Like, "What does Dean need?" and "Okay, this is what he needs. Let's do it." I don't know. I am willing to extend, now more than ever, so much more benevolence and thought towards Lisa. So I'll refrain from badmouthing her a bit more, but.

C: That's fair. I mean, I do like her. I just wish that we had more.

G: Also, I mean, we talked about this last episode. It's such a mature relationship to the point of feeling, almost, having no attraction, [laughs] you know what I mean? [C: Yeah.] And that also sticks. I love it. [C: Yeah.] I do think this is what Dean needs. Like, he needs a relationship with not many- Like, Lisa obviously cares about him, like, very obviously, but I don't think there is like that intense feeling of need for him to be around or like, you know, she doesn't feel betrayed by his actions, or at least not yet. Because Dean is such an intense person. You know what I mean. If he was in an intense relationship, it'd be crazier. If he was in a lesbian situationship, he'll just kill himself. [C laughs] I need to stop making "kill yourself" jokes. I need to stop doing it. I'm so sorry. I just mean like, I don't know. If he was in a little bit more of a "The point is emotional investment, like the point is like, 'I love you,'" it would be, I think, a bit more difficult. But because the perspective now is, "This is my life," which is like, I think, just for Dean's type of person, it's a little more punchy. I like it better. [C: Yeah.] Also, I just think like Dean is not attracted to women that way. Do you think so?

C: What? What way?

G: Like, is he like, in love with women? What is he up to? What is Dean up to? What's going on?

C: What about Casie?

G: Yeah, but, like, I don't know. I think it's just a difference in terms of like, the duration. Because here- I mean, to be fair, this is like, the only really long-term relationship we see that Dean have, you know? So maybe it's it's unfair to generalize from this singular experience, but it's just a fascinating thing to see.

C: Yeah. And I also like that from Lisa's perspective, it's not that she's like passionately in love with him or that attracted to him in Season 6, either. It's sort of just a practical decision that she's making for the family in addition to caring about him.

G: Yeah, that's my point. I feel like if if Lisa was really into it in that way, Dean would be as well, but like, Dean feels like he is matching Lisa's energy, and because Lisa's energy is so like- it's a mature kind of approach to the relationship and their family, I think it just makes it a lot more healthy and makes sense for Dean. [C: Yeah.] If the scene later was portrayed as Lisa being like, "Just go. Like, I understand. That's your one true love. [C laughs] Like, hunting is your one true love, and we'll always be number two." Because it could very well be that approach, right? [C: Right.] Because that is kind of like the point of the conversation later. But because her approach was matter of fact, and like, not driven by jealousy or a feeling of like, betrayal that you don't love us enough kind of way, it just feels a lot more chill, you know? And yeah, I like it. Like it, love it, you know. Maybe Dean and Lisa are in an aromantic relationship. Good for them.

C: Good for them. Yeah, so Dean is just like, "I don't know. Something might come. I can't predict all that." And Lisa just says, "I'm going to need some parameters. We have to live our lives. I have to work, and Ben has to go to school." And yeah, Dean says, "Well, if something happens on my watch..." and Lisa just says, "I know you're trying to protect us, but you're kind of scaring me a little, too." And then she goes. Good for her.

G: So Sam receives a call from Samuel saying that like, there is a pattern with the security company, and all of the victims are from their customers. And there is one more family that fits the profile of having a young little baby in there.

C: Six months. Just like Sam.

G: I know! I thought they were gonna reference it in any way, shape, or form, but they didn't.

C: Yeah. I thought, at least at some point, part of the like, "Oh my god, what creature is this?" there would be like, the fear that is Azazel's back again or something.

G: So Sam goes to that family, and honestly, what's his name? John Showalter? He did a good job with the directing of the like horror-y stuff this episode. This scene also looks magnificent. He enters the house, and it's like, dark, and it's just flashlight. And as he's like, flashing the lights around, he just sees the fucking just bloody body in the room.

C: He goes into a room, and he looks under the table, and he makes a shocked face. Oh, okay, I did skip a lot. There was a guy. And Sam attacks him.

G: Yeah. I'll do it. So there was somebody who's like in the house, but then Sam fucking gets them out or something. [laughs] But then he crouches down-

C: He doesn't get anyone out. There's a guy who attacks him, and he slashes him with a silver knife, and the wound like, smokes a bit, which gives a hint as to what kind of creature it is-

G: Yeah. And the guy goes out! Sam drove him out!

C: Ah, yeah.

G: Unbelievable. [laughs] Sorry. I'm being so mean to you. Have you noticed that? [C: No.] I'm so sorry. No, you haven't? Well, I'm not apologizing.

C: [laughs] Okay, great.

G: And then yeah, Sam's like looking around the room, and there's something on the floor, but we don't see it yet. It's like suspense, even though we all know it's a fucking baby.

C: I mean, you wouldn't know if it was the first time we watched it.

G: Wait. At what point were you like, "Oh, this is the episode with the baby."

C: Oh, I did know by this point.

G: How? Oh, because it started with a baby getting semi-abducted, yeah, okay. And then suddenly, Sam starts speeding out, and it's night right now, and he brings up Dean, and Dean is in the house in his PJs. He's putting salt by the window. And Sam very urgently is like, "Dean, you need to fucking go here. Dean, you have to meet me." And Dean's like, "Dude, I don't wanna!" But Sam says, like, "If you don't come to me, I'll just show up at your doorstep, like, in thirty minutes or something." Yeah, Dean shows up, and as he opens Sam's car, the most beautiful car in the world, maybe, he sees that damn baby.

C: Oh, also, Dean's not driving the Impala. He has this white truck.

G: Yeah, 'cause they're gonna do a whole reveal with the Impala later. Why did he opt to do that? Was he like, "Let's separate my work life from my other work life."

C: Yeah. [laughs]

G: [laughs] Is it really that? Just brought up memories and stuff?

C: I think the Impala is for hunting. He just keeps her away because of all the guns and things.

G: And also, yeah, but like, we did see him with the car with Ben in Episode 1. So it's not like, in full not use. So was he like, he was keeping it around, and then when Sam shows back up, he's like, "Oh, the hunting life is an actual option for me now again," he like, goes to the truck, 'cause he's like, "I don't want to think about it"? Or what's the situation.

C: Could be. I believe it.

C: Dean goes back to Lisa's place, and he has taught her how to load a gun and prepare to shoot it, and he asks her to go through all of it again. And he reminds her to salt the windows and the doors. And, you know, she's very matter-of-fact about all of it, but her patience is fraying a little bit about his overprotectiveness, and then he starts saying like, "Oh, maybe I shouldn't go. Like, Sam can just do this." And Lisa goes, "Dean. No offense, but if you don't walk out that door, [both] I'm going to shoot you." Agh. Love her!

G: And there is a very- Okay, first of all, Lisa is so beautiful. [both laugh] [C: Yeah.] Like, this is a given. I'm doing all this just to point out that I really do like the scene where it's like, profile shot of them, and Dean leans in for a kiss and then goes to leave, and we linger on Lisa a little bit. Because it's like the only scene in the entire episode where we see like, an inkling of worry or like, thought in Lisa that's like, we don't see from Dean's perspective. [C: Yes.] Like, Dean turns around, and Lisa keeps on watching him, and her face is like, unreadable, but in a good way. You, the audience, can be like, "Oh, she's thinking about him in ways a little bit less straightforward than how she's portraying it to him," which is very fun. [C: Yeah.] And she looks amazing. [both laugh]

C: Good for her.

G: They're in the car now. And, I don't know, there's a fucking baby, and the whole bit is that "Oh, there's a baby in the car." I don't know. It's kind of corny. It's kind of boring, even. [C laughs] Should I say that? [C: You should.] I should say whatever I want. Yeah, Dean keeps on joking around with this fucking baby. He turns around, he looks at the baby, and he goes, "Well, feel free to speak up if you know anything," and he thinks he's so funny. But it is amusing. And at some point, he has not seatbelted because the Impala, as we know, does not have seatbelts. And Sam's like, "Oh, Dean, the car is beeping, 'cause you need to put your seatbelt on." I think Cas is gonna show up next episode. Is that true or is that not true? I hope it's true.

C: He's supposed to be in next episode. [G: Yeah.] I feel like he's racist in it, though, or he does something racist. [both laugh]

G: Sure, yeah. I mean, he's gotta at some point.

C: I'm pretty sure he's racist in it. [G laughs]

G: Let's see! We'll find out next week. [C: Okay.] No, he like, throws himself off the window to Sam's car, and then we hear [C: Yes!] the beeping sound again 'cause the car alarm is going off. Love it. Anyway, we hear the beeping now because of the seatbelt, and Dean's a little bit annoyed, but then, you know, he puts on a seatbelt.

C: He says, "A car should drive. Not be a little bitch," and the baby makes an upset sound. [G laughs] Feminist baby. Let's go! [laughs]

G: Literally. They go to the supermarket to get some superbaby supplies. I mean, I think this is a pretty iconic scene. I see it giffed around as like, something funny, where they're just picking up diaper rash cream and diapers and stuff. And while they're lined up for the payment, the baby's crying so fucking loud, and [laughs] Sam is like, "Dean, make it stop!" [both laugh] And yeah, he's like, "Everyone's staring at us like we're abusing this fucking child!" [C laughs] And both of them don't know what to do, which I do find fun, because later on, they do try to do the thing where like, "Oh, Dean's kind of good at like, taking care of babies," but like I like that they didn't enter with that. I feel like it's a little bit more like enjoyable in terms of entertainment value, but also like, them as characters like, you know. I like it. [C: Yeah.] At some point, Sam's like, "Maybe he needs to have a diaper change." And Dean was like, "Oh, I don't know." [laughs] And Sam's like, "You should pick him up," and Dean picks him up and starts like, just like turning him around. Yeah, iconic. He's doing the helicopter on this baby. But I like- While watching this scene, I was like, "What is the process of hiring a fucking baby to be carried around like that by Jensen Ackles?"

C: Yeah not sure. I think a lot of times it's like, the kids of somebody who works on the show.

G: Really?

C: Yeah. I think they're more likely to trust somebody that they know with their baby. People are like, "I don't know Jensen Ackles. I don't want him to do that." But if someone's on the cast, they know Jensen Ackles, they know that he'll listen if they talk to him about how to hold their kid, and they're like, there on set and watching while it happens. Then yeah, I think it's more doable. And a lot of people aren't just putting their babies up on job boards, I think, [both laugh] so.

G: Yeah. I mean, there probably is an actual like, call to casting for like, "We need a baby!" [C: Yeah.] But like, I suppose it's difficult if it's like a long-term filming because babies do grow up so fast. And also, it's a baby. [both laugh] Like, it's gonna cry and shit. And like, I don't know, how many takes did they do with this? Were they like, "Oh, we have a baby, so we're just gonna do two takes at most."

G: I don't know. The baby's a good actor.

G: Yeah, baby's a pretty good actor. I hope the baby is handsomely compensated. [C laughs] [C: Yeah.] And like, I was trying to catch moments where I'm like, "Oh, that's not a baby. That's a doll baby." But no, it's always a fucking baby. [C laughs] Like, at no point, I think, did they use a doll this episode. That means they had a baby. [laughs] Obviously. And I was just like, "Wow, they have a fucking baby. They don't have a doll baby." Like, in that scene where Dean was like, rotating that fucking baby, I was like, "That's a doll, right?" But no, it's a fucking child. [C laughs]

C: Oh, also, what's relevant is that Dean has a better idea of what to buy for the baby because Lisa has a baby niece.

G: Yeah. At some point, a lady shows up to them, and they're like, really making an effort of making this like a very warm and comely woman, and she carries the baby to calm it down, she asks, "Oh, what's the baby's name?" And Dean goes, "Bobby," and Sam goes, "John," and I've seen so many analyses on this. [C: Yeah.] People have thought about this long and hard. People are like, "It's something that like, Dean thinks of his father as Bobby, but Sam, when he's soulless, thinks of it as John, and he does it because he's soulless!"

C: I think as a regular guy would also think that it's John [both laugh] because Bobby hates him.

G: I think Bobby hates his ass so bad. [C laughing] Like, if Bobby was Sam's father, he'd be like, "Dude. Let's cut it out." So yeah, I don't know. Well, yeah, this kid is now named Bobby John.

C: I think what's more interesting is that their automatic thoughts were that they were gonna name this kid after their father rather than who that father is.

G: Yeah. I do think it's a little sweet that Dean thought immediately of Bobby. That one, I think, is sweet. [C: Yeah.] I don't think it's a sign at all of Sam's soullessness, which is what I see more on the side of analysis in terms of the scene. So they're like, talking to this lady, having fun. And then she's like, "Oh, I'm gonna take him away to change his diaper. Don't even worry about it." But then Dean turns around and catches sight of the CCTV camera, and this lady has shiny eyes or whatever what's it called. Glowing eyes? That thing. And that means she's a shapeshifter. And so Dean is like, "Thanks, but I think we got it." But like, she keeps insisting, and Dean goes, "Give me the baby before I stab you in your neck." So real! And Sam seemingly doesn't immediately get that this is because she's a shapeshifter. [both laugh]

C: Dean's just like this sometimes.

G: Like, Dean, so real. [laughs] He's like, "Dean, why are you so impolite today? What happened? [C laughs] You're having a moment, and it's not good to be rude to people." But eventually, they do this chase, and it's Sam who picks up the baby and Dean tackles her and stuff, and then, as he's about to stab, he gets yelled at, and then he storms out and he goes and hops into the car where Sam is speeding through the fucking road.

C: They're discussing in the car why a shapeshifter would want a baby anyway. And Sam says, "You know, it could have been following me this whole time, since the baby's house." And Dean's like, "Okay, we should get this kid somewhere safe." And meanwhile, the shapeshifter has caught Sam's license plate, and this might be the same person, but now, as a police officer. And yeah, he's calling out an APB or whatever it's called on the car.

G: And it is fun to see the shot of like, police officer, and then it pans to the side, dead police officer, [C: Yeah.] and then it pans to the side, and it's like, lumps of flesh on the ground.

C: Yeah. Fun stuff. So now, Sam and Dean and Bobby John are in a motel, and Dean's changing the diaper, and he's like, talking to the kid a lot and then hums "Smoke on the Water" and sort of bounces him up and down. [G: Yeah.] And Sam's over by the side, just watching, sort of amused. And he's like, "Dean, that's not gonna work. You're just gonna make it cranky again because you're such a horrible singer!" [laughs] But Bobby John does go to sleep.

G: [laughs] Dean tells this fucking baby, "If I put you down, are you gonna be a man about it?" [both laugh]

C: Yeah, this is how complexes are built, Dean.

G: Yeah. This baby was with Dean for only two days or something, but he's going to carry this comment for the rest of his life.

C: Yeah. Sam goes, "Huh." And Dean goes, "What?" And Sam just says, "You're not that bad at this. You're like, father material."

G: Ew.

C: Ew. [G laughs] This is all to force a conversation that feels kind of awkward where Dean's talking about his relationship with Ben and then that relationship with John. So yeah, Dean's saying like, "You know, I've sort of had to be in dad mode recently because of Ben. Like, he's starting to feel like my kid, and I just feel like I have a chance to do something different for him because of all the trauma I had when I was a kid," and he does just say all of that. [laughs] Like, it's not hinted at or anything. [G laughs] He just says it. Which, I don't know. Maybe it's a sign of him being more emotionally mature and doing more self-reflection?

G: I mean, I've said this a million times, but Dean is aware of what's going on with him.

C: Yeah. So it's just more about being willing to share.

G: Yeah. Or being willing to say it out loud. Stuff like that.

C: Yeah. And Sam's just like, "Uh, really? Are you doing a good job, Dean? Like, you clearly care about the kid."

G: It's so funny because last episode, this is what Sam does, too. Like, Dean enters a revelation. Sam's like, "Uhhh, I feel like you can establish some logical fallacies in that one." [both laugh] So real.

C: Yeah, yeah. It is especially- I think the point of this is, I mean, for Dean's character development, for doubt to be sowed, but also for more doubt to be sowed about Sam saying that he stayed away for a year because Dean had Lisa and Ben and this great family, and he didn't want to ruin that. He's very down to ruin it now, so that is not why he stayed away for a year. [G: Yeah.] Yeah, so he's like, "You know, you're moving them around a lot. You're keeping them on lockdown. How is any of that different from how we were raised?" It is different from how they were raised, actually, [laughs] but the show does not seem to be making that distinction too strongly. Like, John's problems involve forcing them to hunt when they were young and leaving them alone with no adult supervision and no food money? [G: Yeah.] Like, Lisa's there. Ben's fine!

G: Yeah. And Ben's not even his son. [both laugh] I know that's not the point, but they do point it out. They make a point of it where Dean was like, "I know he's not my kid," and it's like, who the fuck cares? [laughs] I don't know. I guess he does.

C: I guess he does. But yeah, I think the general point made being that Dean wanting to protect them is decreasing their quality of life and making him an authority figure in their lives is valid, but I don't think it's not any different from how they were raised. And Dean's like, "Well, this is temporary," and Sam says, "Dad said it was for 22 years!" [laughs] So real.

G: So they were talking those two years. Maybe it was just 20 years. Have you considered? Maybe in the 21st year, John was like, "Yeah, no, it's been 21 years."

C: Huh, yeah. Good point. Maybe there was just like a birthday call where John left a voicemail that was like, "Hi, Sam. I hate you for going to college. Also, the way we were living? It was temporary." [both laugh] Yeah, he goes, "You want to watch out for them. That's great. I'm just asking, how do you do that and not turn into Dad?" A stupid question.

G: Very easily. I feel like you can do it in many ways, shapes, and forms.

C: Very easily. A lot of people wash out for other people, and a lot of people aren't John Winchester. I think it's a more valid question if, I don't know, if it's just Ben there, because then the choices are either like, "Keep the kid out of it and end up being an authority figure that's lying to him, or like, teach the kid how to defend himself," which isn't the same thing as forcing him to be actively involved in hunting like John was, but I feel like a lot like for them, like, just the fact that they touched a gun that young, thus destroying their childhood innocence, seems to be more what they're upset about than like, the being forced into hunting part of it. But like, Lisa's literally there. Like, it is fine. Lisa's literally there, and I think Dean has a general good middle ground even right now, though, I mean, he could back off a bit. Where he teaches Lisa how to defend herself, he keeps Ben out of it, [G: Yeah.] and he generally keeps them out of all of it. Like, I think he's doing fine.

G: I do genuinely believe that like, the only situation in which Dean can turn into John is if Lisa wasn't there. But Lisa is there. [C: Right.] That's the main thing. Lisa is there, and Dean isn't raising Ben by himself. [C: Yeah.] So yeah. Feels like such a fucking big difference.

C: Yeah, I agree. [laughs] And Sam, I guess soulless Sam just hates women or something.

G: I mean, it has been alleged. [both laugh]

C: By me.

G: You alleged it. He's on his laptoppy while this is happening, and he like, discovers something in the middle of this conversation. He's like, "Oh my god! One of the couples, the dad wasn't home when the baby was abducted. So the dad's still alive, and he's like, off somewhere. Let's interview him." And so Sam goes to interview that dad, and what they find out is that-

C: Wait. Dean giving whiskey to a child. Is that happening as part of our discussion? I mean, it's not- it's something that people do, so like, it's not like he made up this new thing to do to a baby that's bad.

G: I mean, there's many things you can give a kid that they give the kid a kid in the past that's not good, so.

C: Yeah, agreed. See, I think it was a bad move, but yeah, I think looking at it is like, "Dean's not an amazing parent, and he's doing it the Dean way, which is sometimes wrong, but it's harmless, quirky, and good," or whatever the fuck.

G: Dean way, such as imposing masculine expectations and such. [C laughs]

C: Yeah. And give him alcohol, yeah.

G: "Are you gonna be a man about it?" is a hilarious thing to say about anything, I feel like. [laughs]

C: Yeah, agreed. Dean has been drinking this whole time, by the way, while he's talking about how like, Ben feels like his kid and all that shit, and I think that is meant to be as like, part of [G: That's Dean!] a, "Well, he's just like John for real" thing. So yeah, this might just be the ender of that point, but mostly in a humorous way.

G: Yeah. Anyway, we go to the guy that Sam wants to interview, and this guy claims that he was getting divorced with his now-dead wife because what happened was she cheated on him, and the way he found out is because she's pregnant, and they haven't had sex in a while. And she said that the reason why she got pregnant is because when he went out, he, like, went back home early and they had sex. And this guy divorced his wife. I mean, many things to I guess say. Or are they? I don't know.

C: I don't think there's that many things. It's just the shapeshifters were using rape by deception. Not good! [laughs]

G: And Sam like, figures it out that these babies, their fathers, are the fucking shapeshifters. But the way Supernatural does this is, he's pacing, he's pacing, he's pacing. He picks up the phone. He starts ringing Dean, and Dean picks it up. But then, as he picks it up, there's like, an explosion in the crib, and he's like, panicking but also slowly and carefully trying to look into it. And when Sam goes like, "Yeah, Dean, it's a shapeshifter!" We go to Dean, lifting up the baby in the crib, and the baby - [laughs] the most effective way that they thought to show us that the baby has changed [C laughs] is that the baby is now Black.

C: Yeah, to match the baby on the diapers packaging.

G: Which is just because he saw the diaper packaging?

C: Yeah. He was like, "I wanna look like that."

G: Do baby eyes work at six months old?

C: Probably. Do they not?

G: I mean, they do, but like, they have this thing where they only see some things. [C: Huh!] Like, everything else is blurred. But I don't know. I haven't been near a little baby in a long time.

C: It rapidly improves in the first six months of life.

G: Yeah. And this baby is maybe seven months, so it's the best it's gonna get. [laughs]

C: Okay, they have good color vision by the time they're five months old. Take in faces at week six. Yeah, it's almost fully developed at age three to four months. [G: Yeah. That's fun.] So Dean's trying to calm down Bobby John, who's crying a lot. And then the hotel manager keeps knocking on the door really loudly, saying that he needs to come in, that there have been complaints about the sound. And then he starts trying to break in, so Dean puts Bobby John in the crib and hides behind the door and attacks the shapeshifter, who's still the police officer. And the shapeshifter says, "That child should be with his father," and Dean, haha race joke, I guess, was like, "I'm not really seeing the family resemblance." And then the shapeshifter says, "I'm not talking about me. I'm talking about our father."

G: Who art in heaven.

C: So true.

G: That's not true. Don't say that. [both laugh]

C: Okay. Not true.

G: Not true. Heretic, even, people would say.

C: Here- here- heretic, even. [G: I agree.] Dean's losing, but then Sam comes into the room and shoots the shapeshifter, and it's like a shot where the shapeshifter falls down, and Sam's standing in the doorway, all cool with his gun. And yeah. Later-

G: They call back to this later.

C: Yeah. That Sam had to have overheard when the shapeshifter said, "I'm talking about [both] our father." Honestly, the timing is not clear to me that Sam would have heard that, bu I guess he did.

G: Yeah, no, that's why Dean puts it like that. Dean's like, "Oh, remember the hotel?"

C: Oh, right, and Sam's like, "Yeah, I did hear that."

G: "Oh, yeah!" And he's like, "So you heard it. So you're lying to me."

G: So they're in the car now, and Sam and Dean are discussing how it's even possible that shapeshifters are like, having sex.

C: Well, reproducing. They know that shapeshifters have sex.

G: Yeah, maybe they're asexually reproducing. But like, basically, Sam's like, "Wait, I thought they were just like X-men or something. I didn't know that it can be like, passed down or whatever." And Dean's like, "Yeah. Don't we know it?" And this is- they point out that this is like, a baby. Like, it is a shapeshifter, but it's also like, a fucking baby.

C: Dean's on the side of "It's just a baby," yeah.

G: Sam is arguing for "It's still a shifter!" while Dean is arguing for "But it's a baby shifter!" And Dean was like, "What are we gonna do? Drop it off in an orphanage? Like, they might get upset when it turns Asian!"

C: Asian mention!

G: Asian mention! [both laugh] Asia represent! Yeah. And Sam brings up that they should bring it to Samuel. It's like, "We're gonna bring this kid to a bunch of hunters?" And Sam's like, "They're not just hunters, Dean. They're our family." [C laughs] Fuck off!

C: It's weird that soulless Sam still has values regarding loyalty to the family, honestly more than he did before.

G: I think I tried to mention this last episode, but I didn't do a good job, but what I like about this is that, yeah, soulless Sam is leaning into the concept of family, but like, in a way that is so like, on paper, you know what I mean? [C: Yeah.] Because when they say, "It should be about family," they're not just talking about the people we are related to by blood, and that's the only qualification, you know? [C: Right.] But I think what's happening here is Sam understands that these are the values that he is supposed to value, [C: Yeah.] and he has decided like, "Oh, family is something that I'm supposed to value." But there is a lack of understanding about what aspects or parts of those really imbue that value with meaning.

C: Yeah. So, "These are my cousins? Sure. I trust them. We're good!"

G: Yeah, which I do find fascinating. I think it's like, an interesting thing to do. Like, later on, in the future seasons, they have one character lose his soul, and he was a really passionate guy, like, he liked doing things. And then when he found out that he was soulless, he was like, "Oh, that's why I didn't love any of these things anymore." And Dean was like, "What? But you still kept the collection, and you still talk passionately about it." And he goes, "Yeah, but like, it's because I understand that's what I'm supposed to do, but I don't really feel the actual affection anymore. I just understand that the affection is supposed to be there." And like, I think that's like what Sam is doing. He's like, "Oh, they're family, and if I'm going to equate that as a value that I have, the the affection should be there." So even if it's not, he just- you know. So, yeah, I think actually, that's a question that you're supposed to ask in this episode. Like, if you didn't know that Sam was soulless, that is supposed to be ringing a very, very red bell. That's not- I'm mixing my- whatever. [laughs] Sam says like, "Oh, don't worry, Dean. Not every hunter is a headcase. I mean, Samuel is actually a lot like you." And Dean's like, "Well, I'm a headcase!" [laughs] And he's so real for that. But anyway, they still ended up going to Samuel just because they don't really have any other proper choice.

C: Yeah. Well, Sam has other reasons, I suppose.

G: Yeah, Dean has no other choice. Sam is being ominous and mysterious, etc.

C: Yeah. So there's a scene in this like, compound where the Campbells are staying. There's like, guards-

G: It's ominous as fuck-all.

C: - who are like opening some barbed wire fence or whatever thing to let the car drive through, and then the whole time inside the compound, all the Campbells are making like, evil, smirky faces, and there's ominous music playing as they like, circle around Dean like wolves. [laughs] He's holding Bobby John. He's very scawed, and Gwen says something mocking. Mark just like stands there and stares at Dean with like, a mean face or whatever.

G: Christian is like a crazy name for an American. [C laughs] It's a very common name here. Some names are like, that's only for Filipinos. If you're American, get out of here. [C laughs] I think Christian is a crazy name for an American to have, just because like, that's your language, you know? Like, you speak English and the connotations of it, blah blah blah. [C: Right.] I don't know. Here, it's like, honestly, I only realized later in life what the word Christian means, [both laugh] you know. But perhaps if you're in the United States and your community's English speaking, you know instantly what Christian means.

C: Right. I feel like it's a common enough name, though, that I don't actually associate it with the religion when it's somebody's name.

G: No, but I think it's undeniable that if someone is named Christian and they go by it, the entire name, it's like, "Oh, this person like comes from a religious family, and maybe of a specific type of religious."

C: I mean, that's probably true, but I don't think about it. Like, it's not something that comes up in my head when I meet someone named Christian.

G: Slay. Maybe that's the case. [laughs] For real. To be fair, I've never met an American who's named Christian, so maybe there exists-

C: How many Americans have you met?

G: Well, there's you. [C laughs] There's Danica. [C: Yeah.] [both laugh] There's that person that I dated. Do you remember that? [C: Yes.] The one who's ugly, yeah. [both laugh]

C: I mean, I haven't seen pictures of all the people you've dated. Maybe there's multiple people who fit that description. [G laughs]

G: I've only dated one American, though, so.

C: True.

G: And with your help... [both laugh]

C: So Sam and Samuel come into the room, and Samuel's saying that he has some ideas about their next move. "Dean, let me see the kid!" And Dean's like, "Uh-uh." And Samuel's like, "What do you think I'm gonna do?"

G: I think they do actually do an amazing job trying to like, make this feel tense, like with the camera work and stuff. [C: Yeah.] It's just an ominous looking place, [laughs] first and foremost, and they're like, in a hallway. I think that's a good choice, having them be like, in a weird liminal space as they do all this shit that's so weird.

C: And Christian says, "I'm curious. Who exactly do you think we are?" And it's all ominous and shit, and Dean says, "Hunters." And Christian says, "Funny. Here, I've been thinking we're family." And Sam's like, "Okay, okay, let's calm down. Dean, it's okay. Let me take him. It's okay." And he takes Bobby John and then passes him straight on to Samuel. [laughs] Slay. [both laugh]

G: Do you think it's weird for Sam that his grandfather, who interacts with him, is named Samuel?

C: He wanted to name his kid John, apparently, [G laughs] and then named his kid Dean for real, so, no, I don't think so.

G: He saw this, and he was like, "This is so cool! Maybe we should keep doing this for the rest of our generational life!"

C: Name buddies? Exactly. So Samuel takes Bobby John, and he's just like, nice to the kid or whatever. Just like, "Oh my god! Hi, cute baby! You know, Dean, your mom was like, the tiniest little baby ever, and she was super bald, and all of that, just like me for real." [G laughs]

G: Wait. I thought you were talking about yourself, and I was like, "Did Crystal change their look? What's happening?" [C laughing]

C: You haven't seen me on camera for like, probably at least a year, honestly, so it's possible.

G: No, yeah. The last picture I saw of you was chin below, so, you know, things could have changed.

C: It's true. Dean's like, "Okay, what the hell are we gonna do with him?" And Samuel says, "Raise him." And Dean's like, "Huh? What the fuck? What?" And like, what did Dean think? Did he think that Samuel would be able to cure him of shapeshiftingness? What did Dean think was the move? Like, what did he think was gonna happen?

G: I think he thinks what I believe is the intention, which is that they're gonna take this kid and study him or give him to someone who will study him.

C: Yes, but like he was against that, right? Like, he was like, "I don't trust you people." But like, okay, so he was like, "The best case scenario, which I'm okay with, is you giving this kid to somebody to study, and I'm opposed to the raising him one?" I'm trying to figure out his moral scale. Like, he was very against this. He was like, "You can't do this. It's not gonna work. What the fuck?" So like, what did he want?

G: No, I think Samuel was getting something here, which is that what it is, really, is that Dean doesn't trust them, doesn't trust them to keep their word. And so- 'cause Dean was like, "Well, we have to raise the baby, it's a fucking baby, even if it's a shifter." But when Samuel was like, "No, okay, we're gonna raise the baby!" Dean was like, "I don't believe you. I think you have an ulterior motive," which he does say later. Like, "I don't trust you guys because you guys are sketchy."

C: Yeah. But I suppose- I don't know. But later, he's like, "You can't just Angelina Jolie a shapeshifter," which seems to imply that like, he doesn't think you can raise- Or is the point that like, you can't?

G: No, I think he's arguing against them just to make an argument. Just to have something to rail against because he doesn't want them to have this kid, no matter what.

C: Fair. So he was hoping they'd be like, "We're gonna kill this kid" so he could just run out with him?

G: I mean, I don't know. I'm not actually sure what they were trying to do with this scene, but in my heart of heart, I think what was happening was that Dean was uneasy that they were welcoming this baby, [C: Yeah.] and he wants them to stop doing that because he doesn't trust that they would actually welcome the baby.

C: Yeah, 'cause of his whole hunting life and domestic life has to be completely separate thing, etc.

G: No, because these people are fucking suspicious, which is what he says!

C: But the whole theme of this episode, like, the conclusion, is like, "You can have hunting life and domestic life together." So like, the point of this storyline, and Dean not trusting that hunters could raise a child is meant to be like- this is a manifestation of-

G: "A hunter can raise a child!" Okay.

C: Yeah, of his insecurities, or like, his uncertainties about the hunting life versus the domestic life. And them being sketchy is like, from his perspective more than them for real.

G: Ohh, yeah.

C: Or at least that's how I read it.

G: Because at some point, they do go like, "Oh, imagine what kind of hunter this kid can be." And that's like, when Dean really reacts like, "What the fuck?" [C: Right.] Okay, yeah.

C: Yeah, Dean's surprised about this. And Samuel's like, "It's dangerous out there for him." And Dean's like, "Well, and here, what are you gonna do? Study him?" And Christian's like, "Just because you're a big torturer who won best torturer of the month 20 months in a row down in Hell [both] doesn't mean all of us are like that."

G: Doesn't mean that we're all excellent torturers. Some of us are beginners, Dean! Some of us are amateurs and hobbyists!

C: Yeah, be sensitive about that! And yeah. And Dean's upset about this, I think because of it just in general, and also because it means that Sam told them that Dean tortured people in Hell.

G: [laughs] Hilarious.

C: Yeah. And Sam goes like, "Christian. Take it easy, man. He's my brother." [laughs] Love Sam being like, "This is what family is, right? Let's do that." [G: Literally.] Could have also been like, "He's your cousin!" But yeah. [G: He's your family.] He does not care 'cause he hates Dean, Christian hates Dean, yeah. And Samuel's like, "Calm down. No one's gonna do anything to him. When he's old enough, we'll let him make the decision if he wants to volunteer to join us or not." And Mark's like, "It could be great because he could be a really good hunter."

G: Which is true.

C: Yeah, it is true. Though, I mean it would be also quite dangerous, given- if you're handling silver knives all the time, and if you like, nick yourself, it's gonna be horrible.

G: Oh, yeah. [laughs]

C: And also, if you're on a shapeshifter hunt, like, how do they know if you're like, Bobby John or like, a different shapeshifter if they do a silver knife test?

G: You wear a name tag, obviously. [C laughs]

C: You're right. I'm so sorry. I should have thought of that.

G: You put a pronoun thing, but you you scribble your name below the pronouns is what you do.

C: His pronouns are Bobby/John. [G laughs] Sorry. Bobby's pronouns are Bobby/John. No, wait. His- yeah, I don't know which- there might be another word in there.

G: Yeah, exactly.

C: Who's like the third person who's like a father to them?

G: I would say it's Samuel Campbell.

C: Yeah, okay. So Samuel pronouns are Bobby/John. There we go.

So yeah, Dean's like, "You are all joking. You can't Angelina Jolie a shapeshifter. Give me the baby." By "Angelina Jolie," by that he just means "adopt a child of a different race from a different country," right?

G: Is that what that means? [laughs] Why does it mean that?

C: Because Angela Jolie adopted kids of other races from other countries, and I feel like she's like, well-known for that.

G: Is that true? Ah. I had no idea what this meant. I was like, "Okay, let's just go with it." [laughs]

C: Yeah, no, that's I feel like that's her thing. Or it's not her main thing, but it is something well known about her kids. Yeah, I don't see how that exactly plays into the shapeshifter/hunter- like, "hunters can't raise a child thing," but I don't know. It's something. And he demands that they give the baby back, and Samuel's like, "Why don't you twust me?" And Dean says it's because Samuel and Sam are both suddenly back from the dead, and he is the only one who's curious about it. So, you know, starting to lump Sam in with this whole "people we don't trust" business. And Sam says, "You're not the only one who wants to know." And Samuel's like, "Okay, if you're not comfortable, that's fine, but don't put it on us. All we're doing is trying to invite you in!" [both laugh] which I don't think is true, either. I think Samuel is.

G: I don't think that's at all what they're doing.

C: I think the rest of them are quite mean. But yeah, he goes over to Christian. He's like, "Hey, you and Arlene"--his wife, I assume--"like, you guys are still trying for a baby, right? And it's not working? But you still want one?" And Christian's like, "Yeah." And Dean's like, "Huh?" And Samuel's like, "It's okay, Dean." And he just hands Bobby John over and says, "Congrats. It's a boy. Sometimes." Trans rights! [both laugh] [G: Literally.] Dean's all like, "You can't be doing this," and [laughing] Christian says, "Go to Hell," [both laugh] which is, I think, particularly pointed given the "You were the best Hell torturer employee for 20 months in a row."

G: He's kind of iconic.

C: Yeah, pretty funny. And Dean goes, "You have no business raising anything," and Sam goes, "Why, Dean? Because he's a hunter?" [both laugh] [G: Literally.] And then their guard dogs start barking, so even though Christian was like, "I'm gonna be this baby's dad," [laughs] he immediately hands the baby off to Samuel, who hands it off to Dean and tells him to take Bobby John to the panic room. So Sam and Dean run down there, and then a shapeshifter who is disguised as Samuel comes in and says, "You have something of ours." Question, Sam and Samuel were discussing something in another room before they came in. So is Samuel in on the bait thing? Is that meant to be our interpretation?

G: I don't know. I think so.

C: Yeah. So the whole giving the baby to Christian thing was just like, a fun little play?

G: Yeah, they're just trying something out. They were like, "You know, this fucking bait is taking so long to catch. Why don't we play around a little bit?"

C: Yeah, yeah, let's make some contributions to the arts.

G: Well, Sam and Dean, hidden away, and the shapeshifter like, kills people, I think.

C: He kills Mark at some point.

G: Yeah, the irrelevant other guy who has a Christian-related name. The theme of the fight is that everything that should hurt a shapeshifter is doing absolutely nothing to this guy. Like, they tranquilize this guy, they silver him, and nothing, absolutely nothing, is working. And like it comes to a point where like, they think they've finally gotten him, and then he just like stands up, and then like, the darts on his back just shoot out. [C laughs] And also, I feel like other shapeshifters need DNA or something, right? [C: Yes?] This one just looks at them and just changes. Actually, I'm not sure if that's true. Maybe the- I think the the one who- what's the- "Dream a Little Dream of Me" was the one you need DNA for. But basically, like, you know, he just changes a lot, and he doesn't shed. Because like, when he changed to Dean, he didn't shed, right? [C: Right.] So this is a special type of shifter. So he eviscerates the entire floor, and then we go to Sam and Dean, who are waiting in the panic room. But Sam's like, "Okay, whatever. What the hell is that? I'll go out." But then the shifter is there and fucking attacks the fuck out of Sam, and Sam's on the floor. And then it just changes to Dean instantly and strangles Dean, right? Like, he lifts Dean up via strangulation and gets that damn baby.

C: Yeah. Bye, Bobby John.

G: Goodbye, Bobby John. This baby's fucking gone.

C: Yeah. Yeah. And they don't really do an emotional beat about it. [G: Yeah.] Which I thought that they would.

G: Dean isn't even like, "That's my baby that I just let go." [C: "Noo!"] He's like, "Noo, that's my son!"

C: They were doing the whole, "No, that's my son" thing, I thought, but not really. [G: Not really.] I guess his only point was to be like, "Wow! This baby is not my son, but you know who is? Ben."

G: "Who is also not my son." [both laugh] [C: Yeah.]

G: They're back, and they're like, fixing themselves up, all of them. And Sam was like, "Wow! I thought it was a myth, but it's true. This is the alpha." [both laugh]

C: Not the alpha, an alpha.

G: An alpha. Okay. Sorry! Sorry! Who's the alpha, Crystal?

C: Who's the alpha?

G: Who is the alpha? Question of all time.

C: Nobody? Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior.

G: No, but he's the alpha and the omega, if you must remember.

C: Yeah, but that doesn't mean that he's not the alpha. Am I not Asian just because I'm nonbinary, Grey? [G laughs] Think about it.

G: No, yeah, they cancel each other out, yeah.

C: So true. It's not about the heterosexual or the nonbinary or the Asian.

G: [laughs] Yeah, exactly. Samuel explains that this alpha is basically the beginning of that bloodline of monsters. So like, the original monsters. Like, the original shifter and all that. That's the reason why it was so strong because it was like the first one, and also the shifter earlier said, like, "Oh, I can feel it. Bobby John is here." [laughs] I don't think he said "Bobby John," but yeah. And that's because he has a connection to like everything that is his progeny, and they're wondering what the babies are for. They don't know. They don't know.

C: Yeah. And they don't think they can kill the alpha shapeshifter either.

C: So Sam and Dean head out talking, and Dean's like, "You know, it's really weird. Because before you killed the shifter in the motel, he mentioned having a shared father with Bobby John, which makes sense now, because he meant the alpha." And Sam's like, "Yeah, yeah." And Dean's like, "So you heard him say that." And Sam's like, "I don't know. Maybe. It was like, a stressful moment. Probably? Maybe?" And Dean says, "Well, if you heard him, then you knew the alpha was out there, and if you knew that, you knew he might come after the baby, in which case you were using the baby as bait. So was that the plan?" And Sam's like, "Huh? No, of course not!"

G: Yeah. I do think it's like it says something that at this point Dean was still willing to ask Sam directly. Because he's obviously upset at Sam, but I think he thinks that "Oh, if I confront him, even if it's true, he would like, tell me." Except he won't, which is fascinating.

C: I think he's still trying to figure it out. Yeah, like, I think it's partly a test. Like, if Sam says that he didn't do it, then Dean's like, "Oh, well, Sam's not honest with me anymore, and I really can't trust him."

There's a short scene where Samuel's talking on the phone, and we don't know to who. And he's like, "That shifter killed three of my people." Mark and the two guards outside, I assume. And he was like, "Okay, and this is horrible, but sure I'll find it, and I'll bring it to you."

G: We are now back with Lisa, and Dean is there. And, you know, she's just doing shit. And like, it is so stark the difference in coloring, which I also did love. This house, it's like morning in the house, and it's bright, and it's sunny. And Dean stands forlornly beside like, the giant window [laughs] and he's like, looking out or whatever, and he starts contemplating that like, "I don't know what I'm doing, and I don't know what the right decision is, and if I knew, I'd do it, but I don't know if I should stay away from you guys or stay here. Like, I don't know what will keep you safe, and I don't know what to do." And also that, you know, he knows that because of all of this stress he's acting in a way he doesn't want to act, and it's scaring him. And Lisa says that, "Dean, I also don't know what's the best, but what I do know is that you're not a construction worker." [both laugh] She said, "Dude, when you cut wood, it's not straight. Get out of here." "You're a hunter. And now that your brother's out there, things are different. You don't want to be here, Dean." And Dean says, "Yes, I do." And Lisa says - and I do like this one. She says, "Okay, maybe you want to be here, but you also want to be there." And yeah, she says, "You're white-knuckling it, living life like this." Love the term "white-knuckling." "You don't have to hide who you are." Oh my god! She said, "I love that you're bisexual." [C: Yeah.] She's just like Central Cee for real. [both laugh] And yeah. She says, "I'm not going to have this discussion with you every time you leave, and it's going to keep happening, so I need you to go." And Dean says, "Well, I can't lose you and Ben." And she says, "That's not like, exclusive. Just because you're gonna be a hunter doesn't mean you're going to lose us. You can just always come back here as long as you stay safe, and you try to live your life as you want it." And Dean's like, "Okay!" and then he runs to the garage. [both laugh]

C: Well, he says, "Do you really think we can pull something like that off?" And Lisa says that "We should try."

G: Yeah. And then he runs to the garage.

C: Yeah, and they're playing rock music, and it's fucking stupid as all hell.

G: Fuck off. It's "Smoke in the Water," right? [C: Yeah.] It's the song he was humming earlier, which I think was fun.

C: Yes. I think this scene is stupid as all hell.

G: It looks stupid at the end of an episode, but I did like it here. I mean, I did like it independently of everything. If this was in Season 7, I'd also be like, "Love it!" If this is in Season 8, I'll be like, "Wonderful." [C laughs] If this happened in Season 3, I'll be like, "Love this episode!"

C: Yeah, sure. In the context of the episode, it's like, "Oh, I've had difficulty reconciling my hunting life and my domestic life, but we're really just gonna try to make it work, and my heart will be with both of you." And then it's like, "Vroom vroom, bitches. It's Impala time!" [both laugh] Like, it just feels totally dissonant.

G: No, he reconciled- He lost a baby. He reconciled with his secondary baby. And now, here is his first Baby. [C: Yeah.] It's an episode about babies is what we've established, and so the Impala does need to be here. [C laughs] [C: Sure.] No, but I do love the scene. There's a tarp. He removes the tarp. There's like zoom-ins on places, and he's like, looking at all this, smirking, and-

C: It's fucking stupid. Sorry, you're allowed to love things. [G laughs] Or are you?

G: I do find so funny that like, for us, it's like, cool because there's action and movement because of the camera, but like- [laughs]

C: Maybe for you, it's cool.

G: But for Dean, he's literally just standing in front of this car, smirking. Like- [both laugh] [C: Yeah.] And that's so real. That's important. Yeah.

Okay, well, what did we think about this episode? Remember when we started talking about it, and I was like, "It sucks, and I hate it." I think maybe it's fine.

C: It's literally fine. I think it was a decent episode. I feel like they did an okay job at like, connecting what was going on with Dean's life with like, the specific case while moving the intrigue of things happening to monsters and Sam being off forward. I like Lisa. I wish we had more of her. I really wish we knew things about her parents or something if they're going to be talking about this whole generational trauma parenting thing. The ending was fucking stupid as all hell. Those are my thoughts.

G: Yeah. Okay, well, Best Line/Worst Line?

C: Best line's probably a Lisa one, but I don't know which one.

G: I do like when Lisa goes, "I'm not arguing with you, you're the expert." That entire conversation until the last part where she goes like, "We have to live our life," I don't know. I think those are the kinds of things that- I like it from Dean's perspective, and that, as I've said earlier, those are the things Dean needs to hear.

C: Yeah, I was also going to that section, so yeah.

G: Yeah. I do frequently think about that one post. I forgot, like, the entire context or even if it's a Dean Winchester post for real or I just like, in the tags, I was like, "Oh my god! This is so Dean" or whatever. But like, that one post about how Dean is like a kid who goes to the kitchen and then breaks the plates [C: I think that's about Dean.] because he wants people to go in and like, tell him like, "Don't break the plates." or just tell him, "Oh, we love you" or whatever, but everyone's just like, "Ugh, Dean's breaking plates in the kitchen. Let's not go there." [C: Yeah.] I don't know. I am surprised by how much I like Dean so far this season. I think he's got an interesting characterization thing going on with him. [C: Mm, yeah.] Yeah. And you don't seem too pissed about him, either.

C: He's fine, I guess. He's just not hitting on women anymore, and I think that was most of his annoying behavior.

G: Yeah, literally. Last episode, he was like, "I can't believe women are hitting on me. I know I'm so hot, and I look so hot, [C laughs] and people think I'm available, but I'm not." And then he's like, "Okay." [laughs]

C: Yeah. He got it out of his system, and now he's fine.

G: Okay. Spreadsheets?

C: Worst line?

G: Oh, worst line, yeah. I don't know. I don't like the part where- I don't know. That's a lie. I don't have any strong dislike for any part. I think I don't like the racially something something lines. Like, when that shapeshifter comes in, and Dean was like, "You're not- you don't look related" or whatever.

C: There are kids who are related to parents, and they don't look like them because it's like, an interracial relationship, and also it's just a general, like, othering of Bobby John.

G: Yeah, and basically, the whole, for me, the issue is that they never reference that kid being white, like ever. [laughs] [C: Right.] And then he's Black, and suddenly it's like, "Oh, the kid is Black!" Like, okay, well.

C: Yeah. "Oh, and they're gonna get upset when he turns Asian." They'd get upset if he turns white, too, because he's currently not that. [G laughs] [G: Yeah.] Yeah. And yeah. Also, like, who are the other people of color in the episode, right? Like, there's the woman in the grocery store, who's also a shapeshifter, and I feel like they did make her like, an older Black woman specifically to be like, "You can trust her. She's motherly."

G: No, yeah, they were really leaning into that.

C: And there was like- the pizza delivery guy was Black. Was that all of them.

G: Oh, yeah, I think so.

C: There were some other people in the grocery store, I think, who were people of color. But yeah. So this is one of those rare Supernatural episodes with people of color, but it seems that in most of the cases, it was for a reason. [laughs] [G: Yeah.] And not a good one, yeah.

G: Okay, spreadsheets.

C: I think that goes into our spreadsheet discussion, yes.

G: Misogyny, I would say there's not.

C: Trying to think.

G: Okay, okay, I have a question. How have we and how will we in the future engage with that specific kind of horror violence that's like, the horror is that it's a woman who's being violated. Do you know what I mean?

C: Yeah, like, there's the idea that there's some greater loss of innocence or like goodness or whatever.

G: No, I mean, [C: No?] I don't know how to describe it. Yes, that, but also like specifically like, where the intention is like, it's a woman. It's not- I don't think it's that present in the first scene of this episode, so like, maybe this isn't even the episode we need to be discussing it in, but like, if you know the movie- what the fuck is that movie called? The one directed by Tom fucking Ford. Do you know that he directed a movie?

C: The perfume guy?

G: Yes, he directed Nocturnal Animals. I watched this because it has Jake Gyllenhaal in it. It was misogynistic in a way that- like, I was watching a series of Jake Gyllenhaal movies, and after a while, I was like, "Oh, yeah, I'm experiencing that like fatigue of like, when you watch a series of movies, and then all of them have like, at least some aspect of misogyny, and you're getting tired." And then I watched this, and I was like, "Let's quit it. Sorry, Jake Gyllenhaal." And like, the whole point, is like, violence specifically towards women. Whatever. We'll probably address it in some other episode of Supernatural. It's just something that I thought about at the first scene of this episode. But yeah, I think the misogyny in this one is 0.

C: Yeah, yeah, I'm willing to go with that. I feel like there's a general "I wish Lisa had more of a past" vibe, but I don't think it necessarily needs to translate into points. Racism is there.

G: I would say it's 3.

C: I would say 3.

G: They made it fundamental to the episode. Homophobia. I don't know. 0?

C: I don't remember any. So yeah, let's go with 0.

G: Okay, what- Oh, I am even-numbered, so I'm gonna be the first one to guess my IMDb. I'm actually so unsure. Last episode [C: It was so off.] was 7.6. I would say this one... I think people like Bobby John, and people like that Dean specifically was like, good with the baby, and Sam to was in this episode. I would say this would be an 8.2. That's my guess.

C: Okay. Huh. I feel like it's gonna be a while before I understand what the standards are in this new era of Supernatural. [G: Yeah.] 'Cause 7.6 is shockingly low for an episode that was like, bad but not like, I think, noticeably worse [G: Egregious.] than like, 8.0s in the past. Yeah, I think- I don't know. This was more case-y. I think people like when Dean's like, funny, and he was like funny in that store, I suppose. I'm gonna go higher than you and go 8.3, but I feel like this may be a bad move.

G: Okay, let's see. [laughs]

C: Is it in the 7s?

G: It's a 7.8. [laughs]

C: Jesus, are we just gonna be in the 7s for the rest of Season 6?

G: Oh, well, let's find out! I mean, "The Man Who Would Be King" is absolutely one of the most top-rated episodes of Supernatural, so that's not the case.

C: Is it that top-rated?

G: Yes, it's very much top-rated. [C: Okay.] This one says, "It's not good, but it's better than the premiere, at least," which is, [laughs] I mean, it's true. "Yay the Impala is back!!!!! Girl I missed you." So real. I think what happened is that people just hated "Exile on Main St." so bad, and so it's just like a continuation of that disappointment. Like they're like, "I can't believe it's still bad when it should not be bad anymore."

G: That’s it for this episode of Busty Asian Beauties. Next week, we will be discussing Season 6, Episode 4: "The Third Man." Ah! And the third man is, in fact, Castiel. Look look look look! If you go to the Supernatural Wiki because I look at there to check the next episode, this is the picture that they have! Wait, I'll send it to you. It's so cute! Oh, and I have to open Discord. It's gonna load for so long! [laughs] [C: Yes.] Why does Discord update at every single opportunity. [C: Dunno.] Yeah, it hates us and wants us to die. [C: Yeah.] [typing] Look.

C: Aww!

G: They're all in their hands-in-pockets era.

C: Yeah, I mean, Dean looks weird, and I'm covering him with my hand, but hi, Sam and Cas!

G: Cas is so cute. Miss him already. It's been two episodes.

C: Yeah. Sam is standing like a gingerbread man cookie. Why do his legs look so short? [both laugh]

G: This angle is not servicing him in any way, shape, or form. Let's just say that. [C: Yeah.] No shape, no way, no form. Follow up- Give us a rating or review wherever you get your podcasts. And do, like, leave us a rating or review, you know? I love to read reviews. I love to read people going, "Funny podcast" or whatever. I love it. You know, it's an ego boost.

C: Wait, when was the last time someone's left us a review?

G: I have no idea.

C: Can you love something that's never really happened?

G: No, people do it! Fuck off! [C laughs] People do it. [C: Alright.] I love interaction in this podcast specifically. And also, okay, can I just say, I understand that, like, we're going to have a dip of listeners in Season 6 and probably 7 and probably 8.

C: We already did.

G: I think after Season 5, we're just never going to recover numbers, probably. If you're still listening, thank you so much. [C: Thank you.] Please stay. [both laugh] I'm emotionally pressuring you guys. No, no, no. But we're we're always grateful. We are. [C: Yeah.] And etc.

C: Yeah, you can send us asks, and Grey will be happy about the interaction, but I'll still have to answer them. [laughs]

G: Yeah, if you send us an ask, Crystal will be more likely to answer it just because I find answering asks quite difficult. But I love to answer the email. And I check my email- like my email notifs are on.

C: Okay, yeah, so depending on who you like better of the hosts, [G: Yeah.] either communicate via Tumblr ask or our email.

G: Yeah, if you email us, I will see it pretty much immediately, just because I'm that kind of person, and I will reply.

C: Well, follow us on social media! We are on Tumblr at bustyasianbeautiespod.tumblr.com. Our official tag is #BABPod, B-A-B-POD. Thanks to everyone who's donated to our Ko-Fi at ko-fi.com/bustyasianbeautiespod, which is where our outtakes live, and check out our merch at babpod.redbubble.com. No one has bought anything from that store except for Danica. [both laugh]

G: Literally! There's one physical manifestation of BABPod ever, and it's in Danica's house. Did we even receive that money?

C: I think you have to make a certain amount before RedBubble sends you a cut.

G: No, I think they sent it to us at the end of the year. Yeah, they sent it to us. I received it.

C: Okay, great.

G: I received like, $3 or something. [C: Yay!] I don't know. I forgot how much, yeah.

G: Email. If you want to email us, email us. You'll find the email. It's in the description. [C laughs] [email protected]. See you guys next time! [both] Bye!

[guitar music]

#transcript

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bustyasianbeautiespod · 21 days ago

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Episode 107: Supernatural - We Will Find A Way

Today, Crystal & Grey discuss Supernatural 6.03 - The Third Man. We talk about: figuring out Balthazar's accent, removing our rose-colored Castiel glasses, and the inherent failings of Supernatural's internal philosophy.

Episode 107 Outtakes: Dressing up as Dean Winchester for Halloween

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#asks #episode #babpod #spn #supernatural #season 6 #supernatural podcast

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bustyasianbeautiespod · 27 days ago

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you spin me right round baby right round

#hell yeahhhhh #mentioned #as mentioned in ep 106!

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bustyasianbeautiespod · 27 days ago

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Episode 106: Vroom Vroom Bitches It’s Impala Time!

Today, Crystal & Grey discuss Supernatural 6.02 - Two and Half Men. We talk about: Dean's kid that he just let go, how Sam is literally normo-schnormo, and things that are allegedly said.

Episode 106 Outtakes: Jared Padalecki in the Chapell Roan Concert

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#episode #season 6 #spn #babpod #supernatural #supernatural podcast

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bustyasianbeautiespod · 30 days ago

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Episode 105 Transcript: Defining Life in Apple Pastry Terms

[intro guitar music]

G: Hello, it's Grey.

C: Hello, it's Crystal.

G: And this is Busty Asian Beauties, a Supernatural commentary podcast where I, someone who has seen this show many, many times...

C: And I, someone who only knows about the show through social media, discuss every single episode of Supernatural from start to finish. Also, we are both Asian.

G: Both Asian! For today's episode, we will be discussing Season 6 Episode 1, “Exile on Main Street,” written by our new showrunner, Sera Gamble, directed by Phil Sgriccia, air date September 24, 2010.

C: Sera Gamble is such a person who would say that Dean is gay for having a girlfriend.

G: Yeah? I think Sera Gamble thinks everything is gay.

C: Yeah. And it is. [laughs]

G: If you're in love with your girlfriend, dude, that's gay as fuck. [C laughs] Maybe it is. I don't know. This- okay, couple things. As we've said, Sera Gamble is now the showrunner of the thing. It's our first showrunner switch. Do you feel a difference or? I think, honestly-

C: I don't think one episode is enough for me to know.

G: Yeah, I do think so. I think maybe it is also the fact that Sera Gamble, first season under her, Sam is not there. Like, this is not Sam, and it is- I wonder what the public reception was or what the fan reception was. [C: We'll find out.] And it's like, "Oh, new season. New showrunner." Yeah, we will find out. But like, are people like, "Ugh! Why is she writing Sam this way?" which, I tried to imagine watching this episode without knowing the twist, and I think I would have disliked it or something. I don't know.

C: He seems like a perfectly nice young man.

G: Honestly, he seems normal. [C laughs] It's because the show was trying to make it seem to be a certain way. I did laugh out loud when he rejected that damn car. [C laughs] He literally was like, "You're obsessed with that car, not me."

C: [laughing] Yeah, it was so funny.

G: This episode sucks. [both laughing] I think it's fine. Is it?

C: I think it opened okay enough, and then Samuel Campbell came in, and I went, "This is fucking stupid!" [both laughs] And then I zoned out for the rest.

G: I will admit the Sambell Campbell- [laughs] "Sambell Cambell." The Samuel Campbell bullshit is kind of corny, tired, and played out, and it's been going on for one episode. [C: Yeah.] So I don't think I'm gonna like it. And I never did like it.

C: At least he dies, eventually.

G: It is fascinating, the thing I guess they're trying to do, "What does family mean?" Honestly, it's just so incredibly hilarious to me that, like, Supernatural family-

C: "Does family mean your brother, or also your cousins?" [G laughs]

G: Or also your grandfather that you've never met? Like, okay. [laughs]

C: Well, they did in the past.

G: Honestly, what I feel about this is that Supernatural is a show about family, except they keep trying to move that fucking goalpost, and instead of being about whatever family or about how family isn't everything, there's other people in your life, too, [laughs] it just keeps on expanding the family unit, which is pretty funny to me.

C: I wish that Lisa had a personality or something. That'd be cool.

G: It is fascinating that they try to give her a personality, and then they don't. What's that about? I think misogyny [C: I don't know.] is what that is about.

C: Yeah. I mean, she's there for Dean to be worried about for his growth, and that's about it this episode.

G: Yeah. And also another thing, I think maybe it's just like, because it's Season 6 now, it's just my brain doing it because of that distinctive line between Season 1 to 5 and then 6 onwards, right? But it feels a little bit like Dean has just- this is not- Ah, okay. Many times this episode, I was watching it, I had the thought, "This is Jensen Ackles." [C: Hm.] Which is like, I've never thought that about Dean, ever. There's always been like, exclusive to Jared Padalecki [C laughs] for me. Watching this episode, I was like, "Oh, we're watching the TV show Supernatural." I don't know it was. It was such an extraordinary distinctive feeling for me that I felt the need to point it out. Can't believe we're watching the TV show Supernatural.

C: Pretty fucked up.

G: Yeah. I'm excited for this season to get going, and that, you know, Cas and Crowley and all that.

C: Yeah, yeah, and I want soulless Sam to get a little weird with it.

G: Yeah, I do feel Supernatural is just never that good with beginning seasons. They're just never that good. Cool.

C: 2.01 was good.

G: Yeah, and 4.01 was good. [C: Yeah.] But, you know, 3 out of 5? [laughs] That's most. Well, now 6 out of- No, wait, it's 4 out of 6.

C: 4 out of 6 were bad? Yeah.

G: Well, I mean, 1.01 was okay.

C: It was fine. It's not good.

G: No, I think it's a pretty solid introduction to a concept of a TV show. [C: Yeah, sure.] Now, they're introducing concept of seasons, which I think can be just a little bit more intricate. Let's start the episode?

C: Yeah. Wait, no no no.

G: No! What did you know about this episode?

C: Very little.

G: Define "very little."

C: I only knew about the montage at the beginning.

G: Of course. The ever-iconic montage. And of course, when the Yellow Eye hallucination goes, "Your buddy Cas was brought back" or something, because that's part of the-

C: I don't know that part.

G: That's part of the Destiel supercut for some reason. [C: Oh.] Season 6, Deancasnatural, you know what I'm talking about, right? [C: Mm-hm.] That series of Dean and Cas scene collections for AMV makers, Season 6 starts with that scene, which I also thought was weird, and watching this episode now, I'm like, "That is weird. Why did they put that there?" [laughs] Is it just because they imagine Cas? Well, okay.

C: Yeah, I think so.

G: Well, it's important to mention Cas, but I don't know how it's relevant to Destiel, really. [C laughs]

C: Cas isn't relevant to Destiel. You heard it here first, folks.

G: No, but [C: I understand.] they don't put Cas scenes in there. They put Destiel scenes in there. Well, you know that Sam is gonna be back, but you don't know how they're gonna get reintroduced, I suppose? [C: Yeah.] Well, we start the episode. There's like, bunch of flashbacks of what happened last episode. And it says, "one year ago," and flashback, flashback, flashback.

C: Yeah, all in black and white in case you didn't know it was old.

G: Yeah. In case you didn't know that this happened a year ago. [C laughs]

C: They didn't have color television.

G: AKA the oldest thing that's ever happened, yeah. But like, slowly realized that it's Dean dreaming. Or is it? Are we supposed to think that? Because I wasn't paying that much attention, [laughing] watching this episode.

C: No, I think it's just the "Then" sequence.

G: No, because I thought,what happened is that it fades to Dean, who's already awake, so he's awake, thinking back to this or something.

C: It's possible.

G: Yeah, we go to Dean. He's lying in bed. He's comfy cozy, and it alarms. 7 AM. He turns around. Lisa's there.

C: Yeah, she's sleeping with her back to him to show her subconscious emotional distance from him.

G: Is it subconscious emotional distance, or a willingness to trust?

C: I'm not sure.

G: What is the symbolism in sleeping in beds? I don't like that. I severely dislike it. So maybe for me, the symbolism of being in bed with someone is [laughing] "I hate this so much, [C laughs] whichever direction I'm facing." [C: Real.] Lisa, her first words this episode, “Are you okay?” [both laugh] which really sets up her characterization for the rest of it. They tried to give her something a little bit more towards the end, but I don't know if they did. [C: Yeah.] I just don't know. Dean's like, "Yeah." They roll out of bed. They start the day. There's a montage. The montage is like, very domestic. Well, one, he's cooking breakfast for Ben and Lisa, and there is like- it's cute. They're like, all in the kitchen, all in the dining room, and there's like, some dynamic movements, whatever. [C laughs] The pan is fun, you know? Like, I did always like that motion [C: Yeah, I do like the pan.] of Lisa going under his arm as he's moving through the kitchen. He's a carpenter! Love it! Love a carpenter!

C: I thought he was a construction worker.

G: Well, he's specifically working with wood.

C: Does that automatically make you a carpenter?

G: There's parts of the construction work. If he was a fucking... mason? That's right. Mason, in English. [C: Ah, true, yeah.] If he was a mason, he would have been working with the damn cement or something. [C: It's true.] Or what's that? Cinderblock. Is that what you call it? [C: Yeah.] But yeah, he's a woodworker specifically. He's a carpenter. He's working with that fucking chisel. He's hammering it with a metal hammer, which I did find fun because I remember watching someone talk about the importance of a mallet when you use it with a chisel, and how like you can use- if it's a plastic-handed chisel, you can just use whatever with it, even a metal hammer, and in fact, you'll see that a lot in construction work. And I was like, "Oh, okay." And then like, seeing Dean use a metal hammer for chisel and construction work is pretty fun! [C: So true.] And, you know, he's cutting up some wood. [laughing] I'm really occupied with this carpenter shit. But I love that he's a carpenter. Love it!

C: Important part of the montage is that each scene is intercut with a flashback from hunting life [G: Oh, yeah! Completely forgot about that.], like when he's making the eggs, it goes to shaking salt on windows to keep demons out. For the carpentry, there's him killing vampires with like a saw or a stake or whatever the fuck- no, it's a saw. Stakes don't work on vampires.

G: Yeah, when he opened a car trunk to get something, and it's like, weapons to real life. And also, like, I did feel a little bit emo about that part when it was him teaching Sam about the car and it's intercut with him teaching Ben about the car. I was like, "Aww." Which makes it even more funny that later on, he was like, "Sam, you take the car." [both laugh] And he literally DGAF.

C: Yeah. And the song playing over it is "Beautiful Loser," so.

G: Yeah. The song is about like, your dreams falling apart.

C: Yeah, it's about how you can't have home and security as well as living like a sailor at sea, so it's about how Dean has to choose one between hunting and domestic life or whatever the fuck, I assume.

G: Yeah. And he'll choose to do "Goodbye Stranger," the song, not the episode. I guess he also chooses to do the episode. The final- you know, there's like, some guy throughout that montage that he grills stuff with. Incredibly funny. What is it with like, men and grilling? [C laughs] Or like, the American concept of masculinity and grilling? Is it like, the only acceptable form of cooking in terms of masculinity?

C: My dad does barbeque things.

G: You did mention this, yeah.

C: My dad also cooks normal style, though. [laughing] But my dad is not, I think, the pinnacle of American masculinity.

G: Well, I mean, you know, he should try harder. [C laughs]

C: Yeah. I'll tell him to watch more football. No, yeah. I think I think there is an idea of like, they would not cook in the kitchen, but they do barbecue because it's like, charcoal in the open flame, so it's tough or whatever.

G: My dad also does the grill. [C laughs] So maybe it's also Filipino masculinity. [C: So true.] And now we go to Dean and this dude named Sid, who sounds exactly like Sam Winchester. Well, sounds exactly like Jared Padalecki.

C: He does, yeah. Grey pointed this out. I didn't notice while I was watching it, and then I rewatched that scene with my eyes closed, and, like he actually does have Jared Padalecki's voice.

G: [laughs] Which is, of course, how I watch every episode of Supernatural. [C laughs] With my eyes closed! But yeah, he sounds so much like Jared Padalecki. I literally- I was startled watching it. Like, "Oh! Sam is already here? I thought it was later in the episode!" But no, it's not Sam. It's Sid. I forgot what he's complaining about. He's talking about, I think, his old life, right? But he's like-

C: I think he like, fucked a goat or something.

G: Is that it? Did he fuck-

C: I don't know what the joke is. He's just saying that "Luckily, no one took a picture of him and that goat and put it on Facebook." And it's like, what did you do with the goat?

G: But he's saying like, "Ugh, I can't believe like this is my life right now. I'm in the suburbs." And he's trying to get Dean to tell him about his past, but Dean is quiet and reserved about it. And we establish, it's like a year ago, and Dean says he's in pest control, and he's like, "Yeah, I help people-"

C: Which Cas also says in Season 10, right? That he's an exterminator?

G: Yeah! You don't let the bedbugs bite, is what he says. [both laugh] He winks in that scene! [giggles] [C: Yeah.] Cas is so wonderful! You can literally hear the difference of the lilt in my voice talking about him. [C: Yeah.] Well, yeah, Dean, saying he's from pest control, corny, tired, and played out. Cas saying he's from pest control, the most adorable thing in the world. And Dean, you know, is like, "Oh, it's like a little bit scary that this is all happening, but, you know, it's wonderful, too." And then they do the scene where the bartender hands Dean like, a receipt with her number on it, and the guy's like, "Oh, I think that girl's into you," and Dean's like, "You think?" and then he raises the receipt with the bartender's number on it. And what we're supposed to learn from this is like, "Yeah, Dean has settled down, but not because he's not desirable anymore. [C laughing] He's soo desirable. People are soo into him."

C: "Women wanna fuck him soo bad, but he just won't, because he's loyal."

G: "Yeah, because he's a good person! 'Cause that's what makes you a good person! Being loyal to your beautiful wife!" I guess. They're not married. Are they married?

C: They're not married.

G: They're not married. Well, maybe they should have gotten married here in the Philippines. That way, Dean could never have left her! [both laugh] It's still unbelievable that we don't have a divorce. I feel like the older and older I get, the more ridiculous I think it is. Why don't we have it? Like, every time somebody is like, “I'm getting married,” instead of being like, “Happy for you!” which is, I believe, what I would feel if there was divorce, [laughs] I'm like, "Are you sure? [C: "Are you fucking sure?"] This is irreversible!" [laughs] Well, yeah, anyway, he tears this fucking receipt apart and everything. But yeah, he heads home.

C: So as he's heading out, he hears a scream in the distance, so he goes to inspect some deserted building near some hotel renovation thing, and it's all drawn out and suspenseful, and there's claw marks and blood there, but he can't find anything else.

G: You know, there's multiple parts in the scene where he just literally hears a house noise. Like, a noise that a house would make. And he's like, "Ah! Ah!"

C: Yeah, he's swinging his gun around.

G: I think Supernatural is getting into my psyche [laughs] because like, a sound will happen in our house, I'll be terrified. [laughs] And every single time I'm like, "Oh, this happened in Supernatural." And then the second voice in my head is like, “Supernatural is a fictional TV show.” [both laugh] But yeah, house noises, bit scary.

C: Yeah. Back at Lisa's, which the transcript calls "Dean's house." I don't know about that.

G: Well, it's his home now. Ew! Sorry. It is his house.

C: It's Dean home. I don't think it's Dean's house.

G: Yeah. Is his name in the fucking lease agreement?

C: Exactly. I don't think so. [G: Or mortgage?] His credit score sucks. She would not have him co-sign the mortgage.

G: When she's signing that mortgage, she actively hides that there's like, some other guy that was gonna live with her. [laughs] [C: Yes.] She's like, "You're gonna fuck up my chances of getting this fucking done."

C: He's calling the police station and trying to see if anything has happened near that area that they've heard about, and he sees Lisa standing in the doorway, and then he starts pretending that he's calling his friend and then hangs up, even though she literally knows about hunting, so there's no point

G: Yeah, I do find it fascinating what they do with Lisa, just because you're right that like, she knows about the hunting life. So when Dean is doing all this, it's like, he doesn't need to hide it, but I suppose, like- I mean later, I think he does do a solid with asking Lisa and Ben to step out for a bit so he can reassure himself, and that's the way he worded it. Like I think it's a good thing. I think my main thought is like, I wonder how often this happens. Dean later alludes to their relationship or their life being a fucking mess a lot of the time, and like, is this what it's referring to? Like, Dean is quote-unquote "paranoid"?

C: Yeah, like, has this happened before? I mean, they act like it's a new thing because of the poison, but yeah, not sure.

G: Yeah. It could be that this time, it's real. And maybe other times, Dean was like, "Oh, I thought it was real, but it's not really," even though maybe it was, you know? Or something happened. Or maybe it wasn't.

C: Well, the claw marks weren't real.

G: What?

C: Well, the claw marks and things aren't real.

G: Are they really not? [C: No?] I completely did not understand the djinn subplot of this episode.

C: Sam was like, "They make you experience nightmares and stuff until you overdose"-

G: And I'm not stupid! [laughs] Sorry.

C: - and Dean flashed back to the claw marks, [G: Ah.] which implies that that was like, hallucinations.

G: Yeah. Well, if there are any visual cues this episode, I completely missed them. [laughs]

C: Yeah, because you were knitting. [laughs]

G: Yeah, I'm making one of my beautiful socks, everyone. First pair. Love it!

C: Yeah, so he lies and says that he's trying to set up a poker game with Sid and that he'll be right up. And Lisa just goes, "Okay!"

G: It is fascinating he has like, one friend. Because I feel like the vibe that we get from suburbs is like, bunch of people being friendly. I don't know. I don't know anything about the suburbs.

C: They are direct neighbors, so they would be closer.

G: This is true. They share a fence, I think, is the implication of the scene later. [C: Yeah.] Or no, no, they don't.

C: Well, he sees him through the the window, so I think he's right there.

G: Oh. That's him?

C: Him and his wife?

G: That's his family that was being killed later?

C: [laughing] Yeah! He went, "Sid?" when he was rolling the body over!

G: Well, you know, I was making the toe of my damn socks, so I was really into it. [C laughs] If I was making the body of the socks, I would have known his. It is fascinating that it's Yellow Eyes that they bring back in terms of that because, you know, it could be anything. It could be anyone but I suppose they're truly hammering home the fear of domesticity turning bad that Dean has because they do with Lisa up the fucking wall later. [C laughs]

C: Yeah. Ugh.

G: Supernatural. Is it a bad show? [C: Yeah.] Many people are discussing this.

C: The next day, Dean's driving around. He sees the exact same claw marks as he saw in the house. He sees the same claw marks on like, a fence, or a door or something, and he has his gun out, and he opens it, and it's like, a little dog that runs out. And then Sid sees him and is like, "Bro. Is that a gun?"

G: [laughing] And Dean's like, "No. Yes."

C: "Yes, I- I have a permit for it." And his excuse is that he thought that that the dog was a possum, and they have rabies and shit. But then Dean sees sulfur on the ground, gasp! I think it was at this point where Sid starts going like, "Huh? What?" that I realized that probably- Is the reason that Lisa moved between Season 3 and now because if he was in the Season 3 town, they would all know about hunting because they all saw the changeling shit happen, so there's less of that sense of normality that he has to keep up?

G: Yeah, I suppose. Because if it was there, it would probably be a better situation. He wouldn't have to- [C: Lie?] He can balance that shit, you know? It's not one or the other, which is, I think this episode kept on trying to be like, "You can only choose one!" I don't know, man. I think you can choose both.

C: Yeah, it's what "Beautiful Fool" is about or whatever it's called.

G: Yeah. Also, I do find fascinating, earlier, we forgot to mention in the montage, you know, Dean's checking out the house before he's going to sleep, and he's like, in his comfy cozy sweatpants and everything, which is pretty fun. And then it ends with a gun under his bed, like he's sleeping.

C: Oh my god, yeah. A fucking loose gun just under his bed.

G: And it's like, it's not like a pistol or whatever the gun that everybody has has. You know what I mean, right? It's a fucking saw-off shotgun, I'm pretty sure. [C laughs] Do you know anything about guns? Or is that correct?

C: I don't know anything about guns.

G: But like, it doesn't look like a- I suppose it's because it needs to have a salt round. He's not trying to kill an intruder who's just a guy, which I think is what most people justify having a gun in the house for. [C: Yeah.] And by most people, I do mean most Americans. [C laughs] Are there any other countries with the kind of gun laws that the US has? Do I always have to preface it that way?

C: I don't know.

G: What I mean by that is like, I'm not trying to dig at anyone. What I mean is just that I don't experience that. We don't have that experience here. I just see it on the news with American news and stuff.

C: Yeah. I don't know. I'm sure there's other countries that-

G: In the world, full stop, yeah.

C: - have a lot of gun-carrying people, yeah. But yeah. You saying that it's a salt round does make me feel better 'cause like, if Ben shot it, he probably wouldn't die.

G: He'd be hurt. I mean, we know-

C: But he would be hurt, yeah. I think he should not be having that just loose under the bed like that.

G: How old is Ben by now? He's gotta be like, 12 or something right?

C: We already have this conversation, I think. 11, right? Because it was his eighth birthday party in Season 3.

G: No, I mean, last year. It's been a year, so he's 12 now? Or was he ten in Season 3.

C: Well, if he was 8 in 3.01, it would make sense that he's 11 in 6.01, right?

G: No, but like, 3.01, and then a year, and then Season 4 and a year. Season 5. And then Season 5 goes for an entire year.

C: Well, Season 5 follows directly from the end of Season 4.

G: Yeah, but it goes on 5ever. [C: True.] So Season 3, that's a solid year. Then Season 4's a year, Season 5 is a year. That's 3 years. [laughs] Wow. And now it's been a year after that. So he's 12 now.

C: Alright. I believe it.

G: I do- I wish there was more of a- Something I would have liked to see is because I think towards the end of the season, they're gonna make an argument that Lisa is good for- well, they're making it now. They're trying to make it now, right? Lisa is good for Dean or something, and this is a life that's good for him. And the thing is, the way they are trying to frame it is suburban normalcy versus the hunting life. And I think if later on, they're going to make an argument that Dean is actually using something real and solid here, that argument is going to be based on the fact that Lisa knows about his past. He's not like, fully trying to hide all of this shit, you know? I think it would have been interesting to see some of the accommodations that the Braeden household has made for Dean in this regard. You know what I mean? [C: Yeah.] Because the way we see it now is like, Dean is doing things, and they're letting him do things, which is like, yeah, that is a form of an accommodation, but, you know, like something a bit more proactive, especially on Lisa's part, I think, would be interesting to see. Maybe we'd see it in later episodes. But if the point that they're trying to make, which I think it is, is that Lisa accepts him for what he is and who he is and his past, etc, it would be good and also fun for me personally to see how that would manifest, you know? It's just that they give Lisa no agency. We don't see her do anything. You know what I mean? It's always a reaction to things or Dean telling her things. [C: Right.] I don't know. I think last episode, I was like, I understood that Lisa is a product of the story, but whenever I conceptualize the things I find wrong with her character, I still conceptualize it as like, Lisa, you know? Like, Lisa the character. I think seeing this now, and seeing how much like, "Actually, it could have been interesting." Like, it could be interesting. This whole domestic thing they're trying to do with Dean is interesting. The more I am like, "No, yeah, it is the writers' fault," and I'm able to separate her from the writing decisions that they have made for her.

Now, we go to Lisa telling Dean about “Hey, the neighbor told me that you almost shot a fucking dog. So what's up with that?” And Dean keeps on being like, "I don't know, man. No, it's fine. I just thought- but it's not the case." And eventually, he says, “Why don't you and Ben go out for a bit while I try to- I'll do one last sweep so that I can placate myself," which is pretty good.

C: Yeah. Lisa is the one who does the straight-up asking. Like, “Okay. Are you hunting something?” And she does it very matter-of-fact [G: Yeah.], which I think [art of the whole accepting him for who he is whatever bullshit.

G: And then Lisa goes, and Dean immediately is trying to get shit done. He opens the Dad's journal. I do find the journal shit fascinating because like, did they ever revamp that thing? [C laughs] Is it still what it was when they first got it in Season 1?

C: The prop?

G: Is there anything new in that thing, or did it stop in 2005?

C: Are you talking about the prop, or are you saying "Did Sam and Dean add to it?"

G: Yeah. Did they add to it?

C: I feel like they did. I mean, on the bonus material, Dean added the angels [age, and everyone GAF about that so much. Right?

G: But it was already full! Where are they putting the additional pages?

C: Was it already full?

G: No, yeah, you're right. It was like, 30 pages in [laughs] when John left it to them. [C laughs] He was like, "Ugh. The bullet journaling life is not for me. I don't know why! Why are we doing this?" [C: Real.] And it's not for me either.

As he's looking all around, Azazel comes about, and it is like, a bit of a shock. And I do- the choice that they have made this episode of just being- It feels like you, the watcher, being destabilized every single reveal, which I think is fun. With this is Azazel, it feels so not real. [C: Right.] And it isn't real. And the way you feel while watching it is without any of the gravitas that it should, so you're able to feel more what Dean is feeling of just confusion and shock. And then, you know, Azazel's here. He's telling Dean stuff, and he's telling Dean- He's like the manifestation of Dean's insecurity about not being able to keep this. But then, as Azazel's gonna go kill that guy, somebody stabs Azazel. It's Sam.

C: Yay! Hi Sam! Hi Sam!

G: Dean like, passes out, and he wakes up with Sam there. And Sam took him in a fucking abandoned house. But Dean wakes up and he's like, "What? Are you real?" And this is what I mean. Because earlier- like now, this Sam is saying like, "Oh, Azazel's not real." And now Sam's here, and it's like, "Well, is he real?" And, I mean, we know it is. But you're able to understand better what Dean is experiencing in that moment. And then immediately after, he meets Samuel. So like, you know, it's just up and up and up and up above things. I think the the first way, too, that we feel that things are weird is that Sam is weird. Sam is so... How would you describe Sam? The way he talks and the way he acts in this scene?

C: Kind of blase.

G: Is that what it's called? I thought it was blaze. 'Cause I was thinking, "I should say he acts blaze, but I should wait for Crystal to say their piece first." [C laughs] Can't believe it. It feels like he doesn't understand the gravity of the situation, which is like, a common thing later. Later on, with the car, I thought what they would do is he just straight up refuse it. But he doesn't. He says, "Thank you. I appreciate it," meaning that he understands that it's a big deal, he just doesn't feel it. And I think that is maybe perhaps the vibe of this scene, too. Where like yeah, I suppose conceptually, Sam can understand that this is like, a really emotional big deal scene for Dean, but he can't access that particular feeling.

C: Dean does ask if this is Heaven when he sees Sam, [G: Aw, yeah.] which is, yeah, sort of nice. And like, he knows Sam Sam is in Hell, so he just thinks that this is some kind of weird memory loop thing, [G: Yeah.] and that's nice. But Sam's just like, “No, I'm real,” and he does the silver blade test and the salt water test.

G: And this is a fun sequence where he like, you know, "I'll do it for you!" And then he just glugs some holy water. It's fun. I never figured out why they glugged that thing. If you throw it at yourself, you'll be fine, I guess. But I guess then you'll be wet, [C laughs] and they're like, "I'd rather have diarrhea than have to dry my clothes."

C: For real. This is me when I eat bad vegetables because I don't want to put them in my trashcan because [G: You don't wanna deal with the trash.] then my trash will smell bad. [both laugh] Yeah. So yeah, Dean finally realizes that this is Sam for real, and he hugs him very tightly. And Sam just makes like an “okay!” [laughs] sort of face about it. Dean's very stammery, very emotional. And yes, Sam is blase. He just says that he has no idea how he's back, he's been trying to call Cas, and he hasn't answered. [G: Yeah.] And then he's talking, and he's talking, and he's like, “Man. It's so crazy. I looked and looked for what brought me back for like, weeks." And Dean was like, "Wait. [laughs] [G: "What? What?"] Wait, how long have you been back?" And Sam's like, "Oh, you know, like a year." And Dean starts getting real upset about that, and he starts yelling, like, “Why couldn't you have texted?” And Sam's explanation is, “Oh, I was doing you a favor because you finally had what you wanted, like a family. You were building a real life and all of that, so I didn't want to show up and ruin everything.”

G: Yeah. Later on, Bobby shares the exact same sentiment as his reasoning for not telling Dean. You know, that scene happened, I was like, "Wow, maybe Bobby does love Sam as a son." [C laughs] But I think what's happening in that scene is Sam was like, "Don't tell Dean because you love him as a son!" [both laugh] And Bobby's like, "You're right, and you're a coworker."

C: So true. Yeah, which starts the whole thing this episode about how suburbia and having a girlfriend and a kid is "real life" or something. I don't know. It's some weird Company-ass bullshit.

G: And it is fascinating what Sam says here. “I have a family of my own” or whatever the fuck.

C: Yeah. Well, he says that he's been hunting and that he's been working with other people, and Dean's like “What, like strangers?” [G: "You're working with strangers?"] And Sam goes, “They're more like family. And, they're here!” And he just leads Dean to another room, and there are some Campbells in there. There's Gwen, and because she's a woman, she has to be homophobic towards Dean to prove that she's tough enough to be a hunter.

G: Yeah, I did hate that the way it is done- I mean, the fact that it's done is annoying. But the way that it's done is her telling Dean like, “Oh, Dean, you're like, so pretty!” And come on! What the fuck is this? What is this? [C: Don't know.] It boggles me a little bit that they feel the need to- attractiveness? Like, "Oh, he settled down. But don't worry!" Don't worry of what? [both laughing] What shouldn't we not worry about? What's going on? [C laughing]

C: For real. So yeah, Gwen Campbell's there. There's like, some guys named Christian and Mark Campbell, who- I didn't even remember there were two separate guys here.

G: [laughing] I thought it was just one guy named Christian Mark if I'm being honest. [C laughing] [C: That's so real.] They're like, absolutely nothing characters.

C: And yeah, they are also absolutely nothing characters, which yeah, just feels surprising. Like, it seems like they'd want to know a little bit more about their cousins, but whatevs.

G: Yeah. But Sam is soulless and doesn't give a fuck is the implication.

C: Yeah. And they all grew up hunters. And then Samuel Campbell shows up, and he's like, "And I brought all these people together!"

G: For real. He like, immediately hugs Dean. [C: Yeah.] He's like, "My grandson." or whatever. [C: Yeah.] What a weirdass guy?

C: Yeah. I mean, is that weird?

G: What's weird? Calling your grandson your grandson? Yeah, I think so. [C laughs] No, I just mean like, they're trying to do something this episode with regards to "What is family? Who is family?" And like, it is just fascinating that, like, you know, Dean's argument is "Family is- You don't leave them because they're the ones you grew up with and the ones that raised you," blah blah blah. And then what's the logic behind this guy? He's just some guy.

C: Yeah, I don't know. They care about their mom a lot, and he's related to her? I mean, they've met before. Dean revealed that he was his grandson to him in I forgot which season.

G: Yeah, and then he died.

C: Yeah. And then he died. But yeah, I guess they have a connection. They knew each other before in some way.

G: And they felt the need too to mention that, like, this guy went to heaven.

C: Yeah. [laughing] Incredibly funny.

G: They couldn't just say "brought me back." It's like, "No, they lifted Sam up from Hell, and they pulled me down from Heaven."

C: Pulled me down from Heaven. So yeah, this is the part where the episode just gets really fucking stupid. Dean's like, “Huh? How were you resurrected?” And Samuel was just like, [G: Dunno.] "Sam got pulled up from Hell, and I got pulled down from Heaven by like, some force? So yeah. Yay!" And okay, what got Sam out was Cas. Did Cas just go up and yeet Dean's grandfather down for no reason? Like, do we find out what happened here?

G: I don't know, and I severely do not like or care about this guy, so I suspect that I will remember. I don't suspect that I will remember. I suspect that I won't remember. Wow! Conjugation! Is that what conjugation is, or is conjugation a different thing?

C: I don't know what conjugation is. It's something to do with verbs.

They're like, "We need a Sam who's like, related to Dean." And they were like, "We got two of them. What do you want us to do?" "Just get both of them. I don't know. Throw them on Earth." No one else has been resurrected ever except for them.

G: No, yeah, what is that about? Or I don't actually know. And like, there are inklings now of the special monster situation that they have going, and I'm pretty sure Samuel is gonna turn out to be evil [C: Okay.] or something, so I don't know. Maybe he was brought up by some demon.

C: Alright. Maybe he's not Samuel. He could just be a special monster.

G: Could just be some guy.

C: But yeah, so there's some backstory. Samuel wanted to get Dean to join them on their hunts, but Sam said naur, and they're here now because some djinn attacked Sam. Dean calls djinn "exotic." Great. Good job. [G laughs] Yeah, Sam says that these are special ones because they kill you by touching you, and they poison you, and then you have nightmares, and then you die. I feel they can just make up a new monster!

G: No. I mean yes, make up a new monster, and there is like a sense of- We've talked about it before, but like djinns are like, part of Arab culture, and the way that they portray it is quite disrespectful and all that crap.

C: And just inaccurate also.

G: Yeah, inaccurate, disrespectful. And, you know, the way they interface with it, too, like Dean calling it exotic, you know. But the thing is like, what they're trying to do this season is like, "Oh, yeah, like, the monsters are getting fiercer. They're getting meaner and worse or whatever." [C: Right.] I don't know. Have some cultural sensitivity is what I think.

C: Yeah. Wait, so like, what are new vampires like?

G: I don't know. I think they're fiercer. [G laughs] [C: How?] They're getting too fierce with the vampirism is what I think.

C: It just seems like it becoming "They kill you through touch." Like, that just seems too different from what it was before. [laughs] It doesn't seem like an actual adaptation.

G: It is. What will happen later on is that the monsters actually are like, instead of being more powerful, they're more mutating- Like, for example, you'll have a werepire, you know. [C: Hell yeah.] Or like, I don't know. "Oh, this one is like a ghoul, but also a vampire, but also," you know, they're forming supermonsters, I think, is what they call it at the end. So it could be that like, this one, the primary thing that they saw is a djinn, but they're actually combo monsters or so. But then, you know, begs the question, what is a monster, and what counts? Like, if a vampire took up witchcraft, is that like a super monster or what? [C laughs] Maybe he just has a hobby!

C: Samuel has a cure for the djinn poison, so that's helping them out. And they think that the djinn are after Dean because of how he killed one a while ago. And then Dean starts getting worried about Lisa and Ben and demands to be taken home right now. They go over.

Oh! There's some guy named Johnny Campbell who they sent to watch over Lisa and Ben, and he's dead. Like, the djinn got him. Do they not care?

G: Is that true? [C: Yeah.] I think they DGAF.

C: Like, why didn't anybody- He was sent over to watch Lisa and Dean and he got killed. Yeah, nobody- I didn't see any reaction from anybody about this!

G: No, yeah. I mean, are they all soulless?

C: I don't know. Are they? Or do they just not care about their cousins that much?

G: Yeah, they're allegedly family, but you know. They're coworkers.

C: Yeah, exactly.

G: Is Samuel soulless? Or what's the deal with him?

C: We'll find out.

G: Yeah, I suppose. I suppose we don't know. Or I don't know. I should. [laughs]

C: Mm-hm. Dean's freaking out, running around, but then Lisa and Ben come back in, and he's very relieved to see them, and he hugs them really tight, and Lisa goes, "Ow!" And he tells them that they gotta pack and go to a friend's house. So they start getting ready to do that, and then Sam is standing behind. [G: Shows up!] And Lisa sees him and is so shocked.

G: Well, Ben sees him first. And Ben's like, "Who the fuck is this giant man in our house?"

C: I mean, he has met Sam before in Season 3.

G: Is that true? I don't think that's true.

C: Wait, was Sam always somewhere else during that episode?

G: Oh yeah, he did like, save the kids.

C: I mean, it's possible that he never- [G: Interacted with him.] Yeah, well, Dean was at the birthday party by himself. He taught Ben to be mean to the bullies by himself, and Dean was the one who let the kids out of the cages.

G: Yeah. I don't think he knows Sam.

C: What did Sam do that entire episode? [laughs]

G: I think he just, you know, he hanged out with the MILFs or whatever.

C: So true. So they drive over to Bobby's, and Bobby is disappointed to see Dean because it means that his apple tart life is not going well.

G: No, this one, this one, is apple pie.

C: Okay, his apple pie life.

G: If you live in a college dorm, that's- The definition of an apple tart life is you have a beautiful girlfriend, but you live in a college dorm.

C: I see. [laughs] And an apple pie life is a beautiful girlfriend, you live in a house. What happens if you live in a house but you don't have a girlfriend?

G: I think maybe that's a- I don't know what. What's a food that you eat by yourself?

C: Any food? [both laugh]

G: That's an any food life, yeah. No specific food.

C: I see. [laughs]

G: 'Cause as you know, an apple pie, you can only eat with a family. With a beautiful girlfriend in a beautiful house.

C: I guess like an apple turnover is more of a one-person thing.

G: Yeah, this is true. Don't you make those?

C: I tried to make apple turnovers one time, but it was summer, and I'm also bad at freezing butter and not heating it up, and I don't have a marble countertop or whatever to keep it cold either, [G: Yeah.] so the dough was just like, not flaky, and I don't think it counted as an apple turnover.

G: Aw. So sowwy! You know what? An apple crumble. That's a-

C: An apple crumble can be pretty big, though.

G: It can also be small. [laughs]

C: An apple pie can be small, too.

G: Well, a small apple crumble [laughs] is what it is when you have a house but you don't have a girlfriend.

C: Okay, but if you have a girlfriend it's still an apple pie and not a large apple crumble?

G: I think if you have a girlfriend but you have a terrible house, it's an apple crumble life. [laughs]

C: [laughing] If you have a nice house and you don't have a girlfriend, what is it

G: No, that's a turnover. That's the turnover. [C: Okay.] The nice house is turnover. Terrible house? Crumble.

C: With or without a girlfriend?

G: An apple crumble life is if you have a terrible house, with or without a girlfriend.

C: Oh, the terrible house overrides it.

G: A small apple crumble is no girlfriend. [C: Okay.] Big apple crumble, girlfriend. Yeah.

C: Okay. Okay, thank you. I feel a lot smarter now. [G: Yeah.] Yeah, okay, Bobby doesn't like that. Dean is here because it means that his apple pie life is joever, and so he just sends Lisa and Ben upstairs, and Sam shows up behind Dean again, and Dean's sort of waiting for Bobby's reaction, and Bobby's just like, “Hey, man!” [laughs] And Dean starts getting very upset again about how Bobby knew that Sam was alive for the entire year.

G: Also, it's so funny to me that like- Does Ben say a single word this episode?

C: He says “Uh” when he sees Sam? [laughs]

G: Literally. Like, Lisa's barely a character, but Ben is not a character at all, it feels like.

C: Oh, not at all. He's just there to be like “Oh my god! And there's a child at stake, too!"

G: And like, the thing is like, you know, we've discussed in the past, like, maybe Dean doesn't even love Sam as a person, he just loves the concept of a little brother, and this kind of supports it. [C: Mm-hm.] A replacement for Sam is this kid. And that's like, kind of implied in the text because of the way the montage was set up, Ben was Sam's replacement in that thing. So I don't know. Now, it's like, we don't even know what Ben's personality is. He has no complexity as a character. So yeah, maybe Dean-

C: Ben's personality in Season 3 was being a misogynist? [laughs]

G: Yeah. But the way they do that even is like, "See, he's just like Dean for real. Because Dean is his father, and misogyny? Inherited trait!" [C laughs]

C: Yeah, yeah. We already had our whole discussion in 3.01 about "How is Ben like this if Lisa seems like a nice person?" But yeah. Bobby's reasoning for not telling Dean is the same as Sam's, is that he was so happy that Dean got out of the hunting life. And Bobby calls what he has "a woman and a kid." [laughs]

G: No, yeah, that's crazy.

C: [laughs] Which is kind of crazy to me. Like, sure, I guess. I don't know. But yeah, it really is just about random people who fill a prescribed role in your life and not about somebody.

G: Yeah, I mean, we had this discussion before, and I was like, “You know what? I'll be more forgiving with Sam and Dean for conceptualizing life this way because it's the way life is peddled to people.” But now, those roles are actually filled up. There is an actual wife, and there is an actual child, you know? And it just feels- If you're conceptualizing it from before. you're like, "What I want in life is a child and a wife." I'm like, I'm going to be able to comprehend that more, you know? Oh, yeah, 'cause you are visualizing something. But this one is like, there's no visualization anymore. Those people are real! [C: Right.] So I don't know. Don't like it.

C: Yeah, yeah. Seems like they really could be swapped out for anybody.

G: Yeah. And Cas will fucking try. Don't worry about it. [C laughs]

C: Yeah, Dean goes, "That woman and that kid, I went to them because you asked me to.” [G: Mm.] Incredibly funny sentence to me. I think less funny to gay Dean truthers. I can understand why. But yeah, and Dean says something that I do think makes sense, I'm glad that they are grappling with in some way, where he just goes like, "Okay, sure, maybe it was good for me in some way, but for them, I was out of my head with grief. I drank a lot, and I had a lot of nightmares, etc." He says that he doesn't know why they took him in and all that. He also says that he tried really hard to get Sam out, even though he prommied to not. Oh, we have the "Do I look out to you?" line also because-

G: No, incredibly funny.

C: Bobby told him he was out of the life, and Dean goes, "Do I look out to you?" Slay.

G: Slay! Happy gay Dean truthing. Later on, the way the narrative responds to this thing that Dean poses of like, "Yeah, for me. But what about them?" is that Lisa loved it! [both laughing] it seems like.

C: I mean, I'm not super upset about that.

G: No no no, I think it's fine, but I just think it's funny that the show felt the need to immediately respond to it. Like, "Nooo! Nooo, it's great! Lisa loved it!"

C: "The best year of her life!"

G: Now, we have a Dean and Lisa conversation. You know what? Not mind-boggling. I completely understand it. What they're doing is they're by the staircase, and Lisa is talking to Dean about how Ben is doing. And then Dean says, “Okay, me and Sam, we're gonna head out for a bit. You guys stay here for a bit.” And Lisa asks, "For how long?" and Dean goes, “I am so sorry, Lisa.” [C laughs] Incredibly funny response. Lisa asks, "For what?" Dean says, like, "Yeah, those things, they were always gonna come for me, and I should have known, and I'm putting you and Ben in danger." He says, "It's stupid and reckless. You can't outrun your past." Lisa says like, "Oh, you're saying goodbye." And Dean says he's saying sorry. And I mean, he is saying goodbye in this scene is what it feels like, but later, he changes his mind. And Lisa says that, “Actually, Dean, this was the best year of my life!” [C laughs] And they keep on bringing up this thing where, like, "You're so good to Ben," which I do find fascinating. Even Lisa isn't like, "You love me!" Is that right? You know what I mean? The way she words this, they could have been lavender married. [C: Yeah.] "It wasn't greeting card perfect, but we were in it together, and you know, like, you were so good with the kid," blah blah blah. I don't know. Maybe they were lavender married.

C: Yeah, I mean, she specifically says like what she wanted more than anything was a guy that Ben could look up to. [G: Yeah.] So it's like, she's been seeking relationships for her son to have a male role model, not really for any personal romantic fulfillment.

G: Yeah. And I don't know. Maybe this is a more accurate portrayal of relationships as you get older. I'm not sure. It is wild to me that even with Lisa and Lisa's perception, it doesn't feel like love, for her, is the main reason for this thing. It's sort of like a social responsibility to a child.

C: Yeah, like, "He should have two parents," etc, etc, or "I don't always have time to drive him to school. It's nice to have another person in the car here."

G: Yeah. And it's just- it's one of those things that- I don't know. They're trying to say something about domestic life. I don't really understand what they're trying to say yet. Like, they're portraying this as a good thing, right? Like this relationship? Or are they?

C: Yeah. I think so.

G: Okay. But I don't think they're portraying it as a good relationship in- I don't know. I don't know. Supernatural's weird about domesticity, which is on, you know, it's a show about being on the road, Jack Kerouac, so I get it.

C: It's just about the lack of romantic affection between them- Like, the reason this relationship is good is that he has two people that he is responsible for, but like, in a chill way. [laughs]

G: Yeah, maybe Dean really is aromantic.

C: Yeah. Lisa also.

G: I mean, good for them, honestly.

C: I mean, Ben's the result of she said she was just really into sleeping with biker dudes for a while. And like, she hasn't sought romance since.

G: Though, you know what? You're right. Yeah. This is gay Dean/aro Lisa situation. And I support.

C: Hell yeah! Good for them. This is a beautiful relationship, and he should keep it, then.

G: No no no, like, that's what I'm asking. Because to me, this dynamic of like, "There's no romance in the relationship. You're fulfilling a role, and it satisfies you-" because it feels like it satisfies Dean. He's happy to do this for Lisa and for Ben. Like, that is the kind of relationship I can comprehend and understand. So like, that's why I'm asking like, how is Supernatural portraying this specific aspect of the relationship? [C: Right.] I don't know. But I do like it, and if this was removed from the misogyny of Supernatural, I would probably be like, "Oh, yeah, look at this relationship that I really- Like, they can make it work!" blah blah blah, you know? [C: Yeah.] Dean actually is like, "No, it wasn't that good! I was such a mess!" But Lisa says, “Well, if the guy who essentially saved the world shows up at your doorstep, you'd expect him to have some problems.” Yeah, and she says the thing about Ben. She says, "I can't believe you think of it as all bad. And it's wonderful for me!" And I think this is the thing that convinces Dean later to make the decision he makes. [C: Yeah.] Like, it's not about- When he makes that decision, it's not about him, which I find fascinating. It's not him like, “I love Lisa, and I want to stay with her! And I love Ben, and I want to stay with her!” It's “I already inflicted with them the fear of not being safe, and so I should be here and keep them safe because it's my responsibility.” [C: Right.] I have a question.

C: Uh-huh.

G: Do you dislike Dean this episode?

C: He's fine.

G: He is? Really?

C: Do you dislike him this episode?

G: No, I find him interesting, but I would say I'm not particularly fond of him. Those are different things to me. [C: Mm.] I think he's just so sad. [both laugh] And as we have established, I don't really like sad characters.

C: Yeah, I think he hasn't really been condescending to anybody that much this episode. I think that's when I dislike him.

G: I think what it is is that he's in the disadvantage of not knowing things this episode. [C: Yeah.] So he can't like, out-snark or whatever like he usually does. [C: He tries.] He's not in the position of power to be in the position of power. [C: Right, yeah.]

C: He's talking to the Campbells, and he suggests being bait at Lisa's house. Sort of has a snarky thing because Christian Campbell's like, "Oh, you're not an experienced hunter."

G: "Leave it to the professionals."

C: And Dean's like, "Well, actually, because I'm super experienced, I know about this thing called bait, and I want to be that."

G: Yeah, he said, "I'm gonna queer that bait."

C: Exactly. So they go into Lisa's house, and they call him gay for like five minutes.

G: No, what is this about?

C: Yeah, I don't know. I think it's about how having a beautiful girlfriend and living in a house in the suburbs makes you gay.

G: In the apple crumble, apple tart, apple turnover, apple pie life, at what point is it gay?What makes it gay? Because they make fun of his hobbies, too, like, "Oh, he plays golf. Gay."

C: I don't think the golf thing was gay. I feel like that was just Sam being like, "That's stupid." I feel like the first two things felt gay-

G: I feel like it's more of like a class thing. [C: Yeah.] He's like, "Wow, you're rich now, huh? You play golf?"

C: Yeah, I think that's what the golf is.

G: Maybe being gay is rich. Or being rich is gay or whatever. I don't know. Maybe being gay is rich.

C: They did say that in "Terrible Life." [G: Yeah.] Yeah, Gwen picks up like a women's magazine or something, and she's like, "Oh, is this yours or your wife's?" The cover's Scarlett Johansson, I think, and it says, "150 best beauty buys" and also, "What to wear now. Weekend classics. Sexy date looks." Yeah, the magazine is InStyle.

G: Why do they keep making fun of Dean for having a wife or a girlfriend who cares about things.

C: I think it's just- I don't know.

G: The proximity of it, yeah.

C: She called him gay earlier, and now she's like, "And I bet you want to wear pretty dresses and have hot date night looks." I don't know what it is. I think it's just like, "This is a shallow thing to care about in general because I'm a hunter woman, and I don't, so either way, whoever owns it, I think they're stupid."

G: Yeah, I think that's the vibe with the golf also. Like, "Oh, you actually care about this?What a loser." It's about, I think, the sincerity of enjoying domestic life is what they're making fun of him for. Because if Dean stood there and was like, "[scoffs] Oh, look at this. So stupid," it'll be fine. So it's not the proximity. It's not the existence of the thing in a place he lives in. It's him not being bothered by it and enjoying it and fully participating in this kind of life. You know, Supernatural has this thing where "You can do it, but you need to be ashamed by it!" [C: Yeah.] You know? You can kill someone brutally in a hunt, but the concern is if you're not worried- if you're not sad about it, then that's a bad thing. But the killing itself is fine. And this is like, the same vibe.

C: Yeah, Mark Campbell's just looking at a photo of Dean and Lisa, and like, making a face about it. And Sam starts talking about golf.

G: No, literally. They're like, "Ugh, I can't believe you have pictures of yourself and your family in this house that you live in with your family." Like what? [laughs] [C: Yeah.] Yeah, as I said, it's the unabashed enjoyment and participation. If he was like apprehensive, if it was like, "Oh, there's pictures of everyone but me because I don't like taking pictures because I think it's cringe," it's gonna be fine.

C: Yeah, "My stupid girlfriend makes me do it."

G: It is- This does get to me. Because I remember one time, I was reading this research, and they did it in Indonesia, but like, it's based on research has already been done in other countries where it's like, they would- I forgot the actual procedure, but they measured the like, "What is the thing that makes men like, not like it when women are in the workplace or not like it if their wife goes to work?"And the findings are basically like, they're fine by it, like, as a person, but once you put them in a social situation with other people, that's when it becomes like, a bad thing. Like, it's not the personal perception. It's like, "Oh, but what will people think if my wife were smarter than me?" And this is like, the feeling of the scene, right? Dean is fine with it. Dean enjoys his life. But the question of like, "Oh, but what will people think if they know that I love to- I don't know. Teach a kid how to change a tire? [C laughs] What would they think?"

C: Yeah. "It's humiliating."

G: Yeah. Anyway, Samuel and Dean have this entire conversation where Dean is like, "Oh yeah, go ahead, tell me that I'm such a suburban- I'm a soccer mom." And Samuel kind of dismisses it, and then he goes, "No, I get it. You wanted a normal life. You got a normal life. Your mom wanted a normal life." And he says, "You remind me of her, actually. The same attitude." It's actually like, kind of smart of him to be like, "Oh, yeah, Dean, you remind me of your mom. And also, you should leave your entire family and join us." [C laughs] Like, this guy knows how to talk to people. By "knows how to talk to people," I mean like, manipulate other people's inclinations. This is where he mentions the whole thing with the djinn acting out and other creatures that weren't supposed to do things a certain way doing it that way. Werewolves are coming out even though it's not full moon and etc etc, and there's some creatures they've never seen before and yeah, so we don't know what's happening, but we need all hands on deck. And so he's asking Dean to leave his life and join the Campbells.

C: Season 5 also opens with like, Sam being a similar situation where he leaves hunting and all that, [G: Yeah.] and then people are like, "Well, everyone's gonna die and we need all hands on deck," etc etc. Does like, the show's attitude about this differ widely between the Sam and the Dean situations?

G: I don't know, actually. I feel like there is a bit more conflict that they give for Dean just because of the situation. Dean has actively a life he's gonna leave behind versus Sam, where they painted it as "He's leaving behind his life." [C: Mm.] So I don't know. You know what I mean, right? [C: Yeah.] Like, maybe if they did this a year earlier for Dean, like, they did it a month into his life, maybe it would be a bit more similar. But now it's like, I don't know. I feel like they're just incomparable because of the difference of what they're gonna leave behind if they go back to hunting.

C: Well, I mean, Sam was potentially leaving sobriety behind if he went back to hunting, but [G: Yeah.] yeah, I guess it's not really a direct one-on-one the way that Dean going back to hunting somehow means that he has to leave Lisa and Ben forever and not even text. [laughs] [G: Yeah.]

C: Mark is in a truck doing lookout, and his thing is just that he doesn't talk and is maybe mean? And he sees a bunch of djinn or three of them off in the trees. So Dean tell all the Campbell's that they need to leave because they won't come to the house if it's packed.

G: Ahh. [C: Huh?] The Campbell that died was the one in the car earlier.

C: Yeah.

G: There's like, a dead guy in a car. Okay, got it. [C: Yeah.] I couldn't figure out where the fuck a dead person was earlier, but now I remember and I understand.

C: Yeah, it was the person in a car who had to look out for Lisa and Ben.

G: I thought that was just some dude. I honestly was like, "Wow, there's just some guy here who's dead." [both laugh] RIP.

C: RIP for real. He tells the Campbells to clear out so that the djinn will actually come and attack them and they won't if they're outnumbered-

G: Oh, Crystal! [C: Yeah?] We forgot to talk about the damn splash screen.

C: I don't even remember what it was. [laughs]

G: It's glass. It's like, it's blue. It's like glass. There's no screaming. 'Cause I think last season was the screaming, right? [C: Yes.] This one has like, a pitch. You know, like the sound that Cas would make on the radio. [C: Aww.] Sounds like that. And yeah, and it's blue, so like, icy cold aesthetic, and then there's like, glass cracking. Or maybe it's ice cracking, but I'm pretty sure it's glass smashing to pieces. And I was thinking about this and my immediate thought was, of course, Lucifer's line about how Hell runs cold or like, Lucifer runs cold. And I think about like what we see of Sam in Hell later in the season. [C: It's fire.] And he's literally being burned. And it's like, aw, I'm sad that they didn't continue that motif. But I think that that is the feeling that evokes in me this season. I didn't really know how what else it should. I don't know.

C: Yeah, I don't know either.

G: These fucking season intros are very hit or miss as always.

C: So the Campbell's leave. While Sam and Dean are alone, Dean does the "Hey, do you wanna talk about Hell and your feelings or something?" and Sam just goes, "No. [laughs] Like, I'm back. I'm fine. Why do I wanna think about that?" And Dean tries to talk about it some more, but then he sees that his neighbor and best friend that he just let go, Sid, is being killed by djinn, and so is his wife. He starts running over there to save them even though Sam says like, "Don't bother. Like, they're literally already dead. Why are you doing this?" But Dean runs in anyway, and he's very sad about how Sid died, except he's not actually that sad. He just says "Sid" in like, honestly a voice that sounds bored, [laughs] so I understand why you missed that he was the guy who died, Grey. The djinn attack Dean, and they're like, "We're gonna kill you because you killed our dad in Season 2!" [both laughing]

G: No, this is their precursor to Jenny. [C laughs] [C: It really is.] They were like, "Let's try it out," you know? Like any season now, we could end it, so let's try it out.

C: "Let's try a four-season gap." Yeah. [laughs] So funny. And then he gets poisoned, and he starts hallucinating that Lisa and Ben are coming back, and they're gonna get killed, and Azazel's there-

G: Via lifting up the fucking wall.

C: - and Lisa's in the white nightgown. He lifts her up into the air, and then he cuts her stomach like Mary, and then she's on fire, and also the whole time Ben's there, and Azazel's like, "You should drink my demon blood. Yeah!"

G: It is crazy that that's like the direct line. Like it literally is like, Dean thinks of Ben like Sam. [C: Yeah.] It's so explicit. Well, at least it's supportive of my argument of like, Dean can't help but think of Sam as his kid.

C: Ohh. One of the djinn is the waitress who gave Dean her number.

G: The number? Oh, you know what? I couldn't- I'm so sorry, but I couldn't recognize her. I thought she was the other Campbell. I was like, "Oh my god! One of the Campbells is a fake Campbell and is actually a djinn!" [C laughs]

C: No. Yeah, I didn't recognize her. I thought she was just some new woman. But no. Okay. Cool.

G: It is kind of wild the way they are like, "Oh, this person is a djinn. And the way we're gonna show that they're evil is to zoom in on the tattoos they have." [C: Yeah.] [laughs] Kind of wild! Don't know about that, man. Don't know about that, Phil Sgriccia.

C: Kind of wild, yeah. There's glowing in Season 2, which, that makes more sense to me 'cause that's like, things that humans don't do.

G: These just look like some guys.

C: The tattoos, that's weird. [G: Yeah.] They capture Brigitta, the waitress, and like, get her in the van alive, and they don't really say what they do with her after that.

G: Yeah. Samuel's like, "Take her away." Ominous!

C: She gets taken away.

G: You know, when you say "They don't really say," are you like, saying that, or do you actually know? Or what's going on?

C: Oh, well, I was assuming they'd torture her or something. I don't really know what the point of keeping her alive is.

G: Well, I suppose you'll know.

C: Like, maybe to make his djinn poison cure he needs something? I don't know what it is.

G: Sam and Dean are now in the house, and it's just the two with them, like all the other Campbells have like, gone out. And Sam's like, "Oh, yeah, I'm gonna meet them. Are you gonna come with me?" And Dean says, "No, I'm gonna go back for Lisa and Ben." He says he changed his mind. And then Sam goes, "Look, I practically shoved you at them." And Dean literally says what you said earlier, like, "That's a really hilarious way to put that." [laughs] And Sam says, "I wanted that for you, but now I'm not sure." And Sam says something that, if you didn't notice before that Sam is acting weird, you definitely know this now. He just says, straight up, quite unfeelingly, goes, "I mean, you gotta consider the fact that you'd be putting them in danger if you go back," which like, we've seen Sam waver on this, right? Like, we've seen Sam make the other argument to himself. And then we've seen Sam make this argument to Adam, actually. [C: And to Jimmy.] Yeah, and to Jimmy. But the thing is, when he made those arguments to those people, it was either like, angry, frustrated, or like, very sad, and it's very obvious that it's coming from a personal conflict for him as well. Like, he considers this to be the case for him, and that's what- you know, like, it's coming from a place of sadness about his own situation. It's just this one is said so matter-of-fact-ually. Like, "Oh, yeah. I mean, you're gonna put them in danger." and so unfeelingly that you're like, "Oh. Something's weird!" I- honestly, why are people saying that- Okay. Sam, like, soulless Sam, honestly, my main thought was like, "They uncatholicized my boy." [both laugh] They removed his fucking Catholic guilt, man! Yeah, I don't know. I think it's great.

C: Yeah. I also like him.

G: Yeah. And Dean says, like, "Actually, you're wrong. I'll be putting them in more danger if I leave, because then no one's going to be able to protect them." And Sam says, "Well, okay, that's fine. But I still wish you were coming because you have this willingness to help people. That's what drives you. You don't think twice about it. Like, you went into that house without even thinking about it." And Dean is like, "Yeah, I mean, it was the wrong move, but also, you would have done the same thing." And Sam says, "No, I wouldn't have." C: "I don't care about people."

G: "I wouldn't even think to try." And Sam says, "Yeah, no, IDGAF actually, so." And as he's heading out, Dean does the biggest gesture that he is capable of in any situation. He tries to hand Sam the keys to the car. And Sam literally just goes, "Okay. But no." [laughs] He says, "Thanks, but I already got my car set up how I like it." [C laughs] [C: So fun.] And he goes.

C: It's a very good final note of like, "something is wrong with Sam for real." 'Cause like, "Swan Song" literally was about the Impala and how [G: How much he loves that.] important it was Sam, how it's his home, etc etc. So I think it's a very good ending note that's like, just the right amount of subtle and not subtle as like a "something is wrong with him." 'Cause I feel like a lot of the earlier stuff, you can be like, "Oh, that's the Hell trauma. That's the Hell trauma." But I feel like this one is like, "Oh, something really is up."

G: Yeah. I find it fascinating, and I don't know. The way people interface with Season 6 Sam, I think, is also interesting, because it's so much. It's so interesting what they're doing with Season 6 Sam. Yeah, I'm looking forward. Honestly, I know I berated this episode, but I am looking forward to Season 6, and I- I don't know. It's, I think, the first season we will watch- That's not true. I didn't know much about like, Season 2. No, I think I know more about Season 2 than I did- going into the podcast- than I did Season 6. But yeah, this is the first season where I think I'm in for a ride that I'm not that familiar with, you know? [C: Yeah.] So I'm excited. I think we'll see Cas in episode 3. So I don't think he's around next episode yet. [C: Mm-hm.] Yeah. And I'm not actually sure what the next episode is about. But okay, that's what I think about this episode. How about you?

C: Whatevs.

G: You don't care?

C: It was fine. It was an amount of time. [G: Yeah.] I mean, I look forward to seeing Sam again.

G: Yeah. I mean, it's a different Sam, so I understand if it's not like, the same fondness or whatever.

C: No, I like new Sam. I think he's fun.

G: Yeah, he is fun. Well, Best Line/Worst Line.

C: Oh. There were lines in this?

G: Yeah, it feels like just like, it feels like putty, you know? [C laughs] Like, I feel like the the reason why I'm like, weird about this episode is like, it does feel like something is off about it, and I can't pinpoint to anything other than "they've got a new showrunner."

C: I mean, I think a large percentage of it is hallucinations or feels like hallucinations, so that could be part of it.

G: What do you mean by that?

C: I feel like I was never really settled in the episode because it was often like, "Is this happening? I don't know."

G: Ah. Yeah, you're right. You're right. It's the nature of the episode as well. Okay. Best Line/Worst Line. [C: Uhh.] I think my worst lines are every single thing Azazel says. [C: Mm.] I just think it's so corny. Like, "Oh, no, Dean! Your life? It's gonna fall apart." [C laughs] Like, okay. Whatever. Everybody dies. Who give a shit?

C: Okay. For real

G: I don't actually know if there's any good lines this entire episode. You know what? I do like-

C: "I already got my car set up how I like it" was fun.

G: This is true. You know, I do like the way Dean talks to Lisa about sweeping over the place. Yeah. He does say like- this is the line. He goes, "I'll tell you what. Just because, you know, I have an OCD thing about this, why don't you and Ben go to the movies. Hit the Cheesecake Factory. You know, hang out with the teeming masses, and I'll do one last sweep just to be one hundred percent sure." Like, I like that he words it not as like, "Oh, I'm worried, so you guys should go." It's more of like, "I want to self-soothe by placating my feelings, and a way for me to do that is for you guys to be out of the house for a bit." [C: Mm-hm.] I wonder how much Ben knows.

C: I mean, he was in that that cage when the changeling shit happened.

G: Yeah, but do they explain to him that like [C: The Apocalypse?], "Dean almost died saving the world" or whatever?

C: Yeah, I don't know. I feel like he'd questions, but I don't know if they'd answer them.

G: Yeah. The thing is like, I think there was a time in my life where I was like, "How come Lisa is not curious about it?" Because I don't think she knows about what went down, and she doesn't ask. I think now, as I'm older, I'm like, "Yeah. Who give a shit." [C laughs] Not "Who give a shit?" but you really wouldn't ask, I don't think.

C: Hm.

G: Would you? You would?

C: Yeah. Yeah. "You said you'd saved the world from Apocalypse. Like, how? What? What was gonna happen? What are you talking about?"

G: Ah, okay. I don't think I would. I think I'll be like, "Okay, let's go. Are you gonna come with me? I'm gonna fetch the kid or something." [C: Hm.] Yeah. But as you know, the other week, I told you that I'm trying to work on being better talking at people about things. [C: Yeah.] And you asked, "So like, are you gonna talk to more people about more things?" And I'm like, "No, I'm never gonna talk about anything ever! I'm trying to not talk. [both laughing] That's what I do." So maybe that's the reason behind this thinking.

C: Maybe so.

G: Spreadsheets? Spread those sheets?

There's definitely homophobia. [C: There's something.] And I would classify it as homophobia.

C: It's there.

G: Okay, misogyny. How are we gonna do this?

C: It's there.

G: How are we gonna do this? How are we gonna do this? I'm inclined to say yes-

C: Yeah, but not high.

G: Not for Lisa. I wouldn't say- Not for Lisa specifically I would say the fact that they gave most of the homophobia lines to the one woman, and I do think it's because she's a woman because they're trying to like a "Oh, yeah, but she's not girly. [C: Yeah.] And Dean, you're girlier than her" or whatever the fuck. [C laughs] Like, I don't like that. And I also don't really like the thing that they do with the waiter of like, "Oh, she's giving her number to Dean," but Dean's like, "Ugh, what a- Women always like men who are unavailable!" He says that. [C: Yeah.] So I don't like that as well.

C: Mm-hm. Yeah. So is that a 2?

G: Yeah, I'd say 2.

C: Racism, I think, for the djinn, there should be points. How many?

G: 1 or 2.

C: I'll give it a 2 just to be even across the board because how much homophobia do you think there is?

G: A lot. I think it's fundamental to the episode.

C: Hm. How many homophobia points?

G: I'd say a 3.

C: Okay, yeah. Yeah. I see the vision.

G: Alright. Now, you need to do the IMDb for the Season 6.

C: Yes. You said evens and odds for who guesses first. [G: Yeah!] So who's guessing first this time?

G: Do you think of yourself more as an even person or an odd person? [C laughs]

C: I think odd.

G: You're odd. Okay? Why? What's your reasoning?

C: I don't know. The odds have the prime numbers in them. Those are fun.

G: What? But 2 is also a prime number.

C: There's only one even number that's a prime number. [G: Ah.] There's a lot of odds that are prime numbers.

G: Okay, okay.

C: This is a tough one. I really have no clue. I feel like some people- A lot of season openers just get rated high because people are like, "I'm so excited Supernatural is back!" but I feel like Sam acting weird might throw some people off. I think new showrunner might throw some people off.

G: Yeah. But there's also a chance that people went back to rate it. Like people-

C: Like, after the soulless Sam reveal, and they were like, "Actually, this was genius!"

Oh, interesting! 5.01 only got an 8.7. Is this better or worse than 5.01?

G: What is 5.01?

C: 5.01, "Sympathy for the Devil."

G: "Laz Rise," of course, is so highly rated. [C: Mm-hm.] "Magnificent Seven" is 8.5. That episode is balanced.

C: Yeah. So it seems that season openings don't actually get a specific boost that I think that they do.

G: I mean, we were right that Season 2 and Season 4 were uniquely good [C: True.] according to the IMDbs, and they were.

C: Yes. Okay, I'm gonna go with an 8.6.

G: That's good. You know, I still can't believe that "In My Time of Dying" is that good. It is actually stupendously good, and yeah. Great, wonderful. Well, my grade for this one is an 8 point- You know what? I'm gonna go lower. It's an 8.4. It's not that good. [C: Alright!] Okay, let's see. [gasps] It's a 7.6!

C: Oh, that's really bad.

G: People dislike it!

C: People fucking hate it.

G: I think for the reasons you said about Sam. [C: Huh! Alright.] People are saying Season 5 was so hype so like, of course Season 6 is gonna be bad. They're saying like, "There's no real explanation for anything," which is true. They're trying to hide all that shit. It is- I think it is pretty brave for Sera Gamble to go, "Season 5 was a banger season. New showrunner, everything. We're going to start this season. We're not gonna explain anything. It's gonna play the fuck out." I commend that. It's a miserable watching experience, I guess, if you're watching it the first time and you don't know what's happening, but I commend the bravery.

This one is complaining that Dean said possums carry rabies. Not true.

C: I mean, he was lying.

G: Of course, but like, you know-

C: He was making shit up.

G: Yeah, but this person's feelings were hurt because possums don't play like that. This one is like, "Oh, it's so flat and undramatic, like, Sam and Dean's reunion in comparison to like, Dean and Bobby and Dean and Sam in Season 4."

C: I mean, they just didn't see the vision yet.

G: "Ben's character is too flat." That one, yeah, no defense for that. It's true.

C: "And I enjoyed seeing Dean as a one woman man, not responding to girls trying to seduce him like he was in the past, is he really truly in love with Lisa? I have no problem with that!" end of review. [both laugh]

G: This one says, "Supernatural was, for me anyway a sign that good TV could still be found." [C laughs] And then they, like, you know, say good things about Season 5, they insult “Route 666,” and they say like, "Oh, Season 5 finale was great. This was really bad. It was a disappointment. It was bland. The role reversal sickened me. Bringing back gramps into the picture is a HUGE mistake." That one is true. [C: Agreed.] "I've decided to give it until episode 4 or 5 to become what it once was, hoping that it will get better. I'm sorry to say, I'm not expecting it. So in the event that it truly doesn't regain it's former glory, Farewell Supernatural! It's a shame to see you become one of the walking dead that your cast hunts." [C laughing] Kind of a banger. And it's 2 out of 10.

C: This is their last ever IMDb review. [G: Oh my god!] They've only got 2. They only have 2. So it's possible that they went back to Supernatural. We don't really know.

G: Yeah. So sorry. Well, at least they watch Biohazard 2, and it's the best of the now 5-game series. "Scary, suspenseful, and plot twist that will leave you in awe." [C laughs]

C: "I'll give it 3/10,one for bobby,one for sam and one for dean." [both laugh] So true!

G: That's hilarious. "Screenplay sucks! Get new writers!" "Get new writers!" Even more "get new writers."

C: Well, there's gonna be a writing duo called Buckleming [laughs] [G: Oh, god.] that are gonna come up pretty soon.

G: "Dean, Dean, Dean." "The season gets worse from this episode onwards." This is from December 6, 2021. "Season six is the worst season of the entire series." Oh, Crystal! [both laugh] "It starts with an awful opener that doesn't hold s candle to the excellent season finale of season 5. Plus the jerk Samuel returns which doesn't make any sense [C: Real.] and Dean playing happy families just feels wrong. [C: That's not true.] Season six was just an excuse to let the series drag on and they should have ended it at season five." I think maybe a lot of the people who are like, "Season 5 should have been the ending of Supernatural!" really are driven by Season 6 and 7. 'Cause when I say Supernatural should have continued, it's because I'm thinking of Season 10, Season 9, Season 14. You know, I love Season 14, honestly. You know, like I'm thinking of the later seasons. But this one, this two Sera Gamble- I'm so sorry. [C laughs] But these two Sera Gamble ones really do suck. And I mean, I'm still excited. Like, I still want to get into Season 6. Season 7, I don't think I can do it. Like, I don't think I can be excited. So sorry. We're gonna lose our minds that season. What if we do that like thing where like, two episode per episode in Season 7. You think that could work?

C: I mean, maybe.

G: Or maybe not. Well, that’s it for this episode of Busty Asian Beauties. Next week, we will be discussing Season 6 Episode 2, “Two and a Half Men.” Leave us a rating or a review wherever you get your podcasts.

G: You can email us any feedback, comments, or inquiries at [email protected]. See you guys next time! [both] Bye!

[guitar music]

#transcript

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bustyasianbeautiespod · 1 month ago

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hello babpals! if any of you are thinking: this grey guy's thoughts on supernatural are spectacular i wonder what else he can talk about for a shockingly long time, well i have some wonderful news for you.

i'm starting a podcast* where I talk about my knitting!!!! the first episode is here if you guys wanna see it.

* "podcast" is a loose term: this is a video with my face on it so heads up if you're someone who doesn't like knowing podcasters' faces, like me.

thank you for watching if you end up doing so! knitting is one of the great joys of my life and i hope to pass the love around a bit.

-grey :)))))

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bustyasianbeautiespod · 1 month ago

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Episode 105: Defining Life in Apple Pastry Terms

Today, Crystal & Grey discuss Supernatural 6.01 - Exile on Main St. We talk about: blasé, the precursor to Jenny, and what's up with grilling?

Episode 105 Outtakes: Monster High 2 is a shockingly bad movie

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#episode #babpod #spn #supernatural #supernatural podcast #season 6

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bustyasianbeautiespod · 1 month ago

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S5 Wrapped! (with Wanni) Transcript

[intro guitar music]

G: Hello, it's Grey!

C: Hello, it's Crystal.

W: Hi, it's Wanni!

G: And this is Busty Asian Beauties, a Supernatural commentary podcast where I, someone who has seen this show many times.

C: And I, someone who only knows the show through social media, discuss every single episode of Supernatural from start to finish. Also, we are all Asian.

G: All Asian! So for today's episode, we will be discussing our post-season thoughts for Season 5, and we have a very special guest. Everybody say "Hi, Wanni!"

C: Hi, Wanni!

W: Hi!

G: Hi! So this is our friend Wanni. And yeah, before we start, Wanni, we we need to interview you. We need to know your life story and everything. No, I'm just kidding. [laughs]

C: [laughs] Just regarding Supernatural.

G: [laughing] Just regarding Supernatural. We don't care about anything else. When did you start watching Supernatural?

W: I started- Actually, it was like, kind of a funny story. Like, COVID was happening, and my mom was just getting into like, binge-watching show, and she was like, "I started watching this show, and it's very scary." She doesn't like horror. And she asked us to watch with her. I'm like, "Hey, wait! That's Supernatural!" because I know it from like, the Superwholock era.

G: [laughs] Of course, yeah.

W: I didn't want to watch it- Like, when it came out and it was popular, I didn't want to watch it because it was horror. [G: Yeah.] But then I watched it with my mom and my brothers, then my cousins joined in. It was also around Ramadan, so it was like, a big family gathering thing.

G: That is [C: So fun.]- That's actually so different from me and Crystal's experience with the show. So it really is a family affair. That's kind of wild.

W: The funny thing was that my mom loved- was the one who wanted to watch it, but after we finished it, everyone moved on, and I stayed hyperfixated on it for like, years.

C: Yeah. Sometimes, it does happen like that. Did you feel like your opinions differed from your mom's a lot?

W: Oh, well, she was a Deangirl, and I was a Casgirl, so it was like-

C: Your mom was a Deangirl?

W: Yeah, she liked Dean a lot.

C: How did that happen?

G: She and I, we're one and the same, I think. [laughs]

C: Grey is actually Wanni's mom reveal.

W: Watching it altogether, we kind of like, reacted vocally to all the thing, and everyone would like, discuss and everything. But afterwards, when I got like into the fandom life and everything, it was like, different opinions than in the show.

G: How different is the fandom vibe from the [C: Family vibe?] personal vibe? Yeah.

W: Okay. So one thing about Supernatural, the family dynamic in Supernatural, it was very interesting [G: Yeah, of course.] because in the society I grew up in, a lot of the ideas in Supernatural were kind of the same. Like, we have a saying that I was taught since I was a kid that's like, "أنا وأخوي على ابن عمي، وانا وابن عمي على جاري، وأنا وجاري على الغريب ". Translates to "me and my brother against my cousin, and me and my cousin against our neighbor, and me and my neighbor against the stranger." It's like, the basic idea of it kind of similar to Supernatural being a lot of like, "This is family, and family is important."

G: Yeah. And how they have a hunter commune, and then they have like, you know, family to Bobby, and then hunter society in general. But okay, go on.

W: Yes. So it's like, that part was very relatable. That's why a lot of our family got hung up on Dean, since his views are very much a lot the same. And because of this, while watching, a lot of the people watching--sorry to say this in advance--didn't like Sam.

C: Oh! [laughs] Okay, that's fine! [fake-sniffs]

W: And then afterwards, with the fandom and everything, I'm like, "Sam's kind of neat." [C and G] Yeah.

G: I don't know if I didn't like Sam. I think I just didn't care about him when I first watched the show.

C: The show makes it hard for you to care about him.

G: You know what's so funny is I have family members, I have cousins, and well, they're relatives, they're in my family- who also watch Supernatural, and their favorite character is Bobby. [all laugh] Isn't that so fascinating? Like-

C: Wait, Danica also really liked Bobby, and that's the only person in my life prominently who's watched Supernatural.

G: Yeah, it's so fascinating. I remember, I was talking to one of my cousins, and she was like, "Oh, yeah, I love Supernatural. I love Bobby!" and [C laughing] I was like, "I don't think that's the leap I would make, personally. But okay." Yeah.

C: Why'd they like Bobby?

G: Oh, I don't know. I actually have no idea.

C: Do you think you can sit them down for a one hour interview to determine what, in their sick and twisted little mind, led them to this?

G: I have my guesses, but I think it gets too personal. [C laughs] So like, you know, I'll leave them be. I'll have their own little thing without any psychoanalysis involved.

C: Okay, yeah.

G: Yeah. Was there- Oh! Now that you mention fandom-

C: [overlapping] Wanni, how did you develop your half your Casgirldom? Oh, we can do that after.

G: Okay. No, no, let's do the Casgirl first. So, how did you become a Casgirl.

C: So there you were, one Casgirl in a sea of Deangirls. How did this happen?

W: Okay, another funny thing, I know Cas from first because like, fandom exposure, but I thought like it was like Sam and Dean, and Cas and Dean are like Sam and Dean. I was so confused about it. And then, later on, Cas showed up, and I was excited about him showing up because like, what's the deal with this guy? And he's like, "I'm an angel." And like, all my family are like, "Astaghfirullah" because it's considered like a big thing to show angels and everything. And then the honey!Cas arc, and I liked him, like normally. And then the honey!Cas arc showed up, and I was like, "Okay, I'm obsessed with this guy." [G laughs]

G: That is a very fascinating arc to do that with, which I think you talked to Crystal with before, I'm pretty sure. [C: Really?]

W: Honey!Cas? Yeah, I was like, I was upset about it. But he talked about bees, and I'm like, "Oh, this guy's neat. He gets it."

G: This is true. [C: It's true.] You are the bee guy in my life, and I think in everyone's life. [G and W laugh]

W: That's true.

C: Honey!Cs also got me in some way. 'Cause like, I got into Supernatural after November 5th, but I only learned things from the fandom for months and months, and like, I think I liked Cas a normal amount, or as much as one can when one has never seen footage of him, until I watched a video compilation of his scenes. I think it's like a video called like, "cute Cas scenes for when you're sad" or something like that, [G: So important.] and honey!Cas features very prominently in that video. And like, 'cause that was my first video exposure to Cas aside from the confession, I just thought that was how he was like, like always? And I was like, "What a fun guy! Love this guy!"

G: How about fandom? For the unaware, Wanni is a fanartist in like, many ways. So, yeah!What's that experience like in the Supernatural fandom?

W: Supernatural fandom was interesting because it was like my second fandom, but also my first like, big fandom. At first, I was just like stalking, reading fanfictions, seeing fanart, and then like started sharing fanart. Also, my first fanfiction was an SPN fiction, so that was like, interesting. And it was very fun. I was mostly involved with the Casgirl fandom, and okay, maybe no one knows this, but I'm not much of a Destiel shipper. [G laughs] I mostly ship Crowstiel.

G: Hell yeah. [C: Hell yeah.] Oh, we need to talk about Crowley!

W: Yeah, I love that guy.

G: Wanni is the Crowley fan in my life as well. How's that going? Okay, I want to ask first, actually, how were you feeling every time I brought up Crowley before we actually met him in the podcast, and I was like, "I hate that guy. I don't like that guy at all." [W laughs] And then, like, when he showed up, "He's wonderful."

W: I got very excited about it. Whenever you talked about Crowley, especially when- which episode was it when you were like, opening the episode, you're like, "I love Crowley," I'm like, "Yeah, that's it." [C laughs]

G: Yeah. That's a change of heart.

C: So you always had faith Grey would come around.

W: Yeah. He's a charming guy. I love him.

G: Yeah, he is. That's the thing. I think I was not charmed by him in the past, or like, I ignored the charms because I was mad at him for being the number two to Cas when I was like, "It should only be Cas! Cas should be the only character in Supernatural!" Yeah, but he's actually great. You mentioned you're not a Destiel shipper. Do you have any other like, specific Supernatural takes that you would like to share to the world at large?

C: Yeah, I do wanna hear more about Crowstiel.

W: I actually have no idea how Crowstiel started. I think I liked their arc with- I think it was Season 12. I was like, "I'd watch a show about these two guys doing like, their own thing." That was very fun. And then slowly, it became like, "I like this. I want them together." I had this AU about like, Crowley taking care of- No, he went to try to kill Cas, but it was like, at the honey!Cas era, and he's like, "I don't want to kill this guy. It's not as satisfying." And he takes him to his like, lair or something, and they eventually become like, together. It was like, very fun. [G laughs]

G: So real, Yeah.

W: Actually, one of my favorite SPN fanartists, one day they like posted a drawing. The caption was like, "I saw this AU in a post once, and I drew it. I like it a lot." And I'm like, "Wait, that's my post! [C: Hell yeah!] This is so fun."

G: Oh, yeah, that is so wonderful. Wanni, do you have any Season 5 feelings specifically? Because we are at the Season 5 ender.

W: I think like, a bit before now, I was watching the finale. [C: Yeah.] And it got to me. I remember watching it the first time and getting emotional about it and rewatching the last scene with my cousins, like, showing it to everyone, because it was a good- For me, I really liked the connection with the Impala, and the flashbacks to it and their relationship. I think I relate a lot to- like, it means a lot to me because I'm also an elder sibling, so I get Dean on a personal level. So it was like, there was this recurring theme of like, taking care of your brother, and he's going to do something dangerous, or he made a big mistake, and it's like- which is not his fault. But it's like- I'm getting- agh. Just the general relationship between Sam and Dean was getting me emotional. I remember one of those episodes in Season 5, that one where Ellen and Jo died, [G: Yeah, "Abandon All Hope."] [C: 5.10.] I was listening to it in the car, and you guys made me cry while I'm driving. That's fun.

C: Aww! I think we cried during that episode, too.

W: Oh, yeah, that's true.

G: I mean, I still stand by everything I said in that episode, that like, after Season 5, the fact that they killed them off is like, it's representative of the problems of the show. But in the episode, it really did work so well. [W: That's true.] It was a storytelling beat that, I think, it gets to everyone. It has never not gotten to me in my years of watching Supernatural.

W: I think Season 5 was supposed to be like the last season, or something?

C: Yeah, I think that was the initial plan.

G: Yeah, it was. But, you know, they wanted to keep on going, and now we have 10 more seasons. That's actually crazy. It went on for 10 more seasons after the planned end. [laughs]

W: Like a demon deal. [G: Literally!] [C: Exactly.]

G: You mentioned you were watching it during the pandemic. Like, you first watched Supernatural during the pandemic. Was this before or after the show ended?

W: It was while Season 15 was airing, and I remember I was talking to it about to my friends, and they told me about like, November 5 happening. [G: Yeah.] And then I even read the spoiler about like what happens in 15.18 and everything, and I remember watching the episode and crying- like, the episode started, I'm crying through the whole episode.

G: Aw, yeah.

C: We lose Cas forever.

W: Yeah.

G: Well, yeah, we need to talk about Season 5. So, I mean, what we do in this podcast is we do the character arcs. Did anyone have a single arc this season? [C laughs] There was. There were arcs this season.

C: I think they did. There were points when they were like, "I've realized something now, and now I'm gonna do a thing."

G: Yeah. And sometimes, they even do it five episodes in a row, so, you know. [all laugh]

C: The same revelation again.

G: It is actually incredibly funny that, like five episodes in a row, they'll be like, "Oh, I realized the the most important, valuable lesson that I will ever realize." [C laughs] And it's the same lesson from last week, like, alright!

C: Yeah, each week is like, "God, I'm so hopeless. We're gonna to die, and the Apocalypse is going to take us all. But I realize that we're going to bring the fight to them our way." And it's just that over and over.

G: "And we're going to do it together." And it's this lesson every week. Okay, but, I mean, Sam jumps into a pit at the end of the season. [C: Yeah, sure does.] That's gotta be something. I think it's a-

C: Okay, where does he start? Let's think about 5.01?

G: He starts wanting out. He gets out of the job.

C: Yes. Because he doesn't trust himself around demon blood, mostly.

G: Yeah. So I guess it's partly like, acceptance of your fate and also like, I don't know. Something. [laughs]

C: Well, Supernatural's the "don't accept your fate" show, though, is it not? Like, every episode, Zachariah shows up, and he's like, "Accept your fate!" and they're like, "No!"

G: No, I mean, it's allegedly the "don't accept your fate" show, but it feels like Sam is always fated to jump into the pit, and he accepted that. So like, I don't know.

C: Yeah, I guess the fate that the angels wanted for him was different than the fate that Chuck wanted for him, which he does follow up until Season 15, when they leave that guy by the side of the road.

G: Wanni, when you first watched Supernatural, you didn't like Sam here, right? In Season 5?

W: I did get emotional about him.

G: In what aspects?

W: I think the thing about Sam is, I see my siblings in him. [G: Yeah.] So it kind of like, gets to me.

G: I think, you know, I mentioned this a little bit last in the recording of the final episode, which is still not out. I'm so sorry, Wanni. [laughs] But something that- that is also, I think, an experience I had before, back in the day. When I first watched Supernatural, when I watched this episode, I didn't have a younger sibling, and now that I do, I do feel more affected by it in that specific way that you're talking about. That like, "Oh, I understand now what it feels like to be an older sibling." And the feeling of that responsibility, and all that etc etc. So yeah, I think, I don't know. The more you understand Dean, there is a tendency to like Sam better. Do you think that's true? Or do you think I'm completely wrong.

C: No. Have you seen what Deangirls say about that man? [laughs]

G: No, but I don't understand Deangirls too. Why do they like Dean? Allegedly. I don't know. [C laughs]

C: I think they relate to him because- I don't know. I think it's something about the cocky nature hiding true sadness underneath or some shit. I don't want to psychoanalyze all Deangirls. I'm sure they have many diverse viewpoints and reasons that they like that guy.

G: Or do they?

C: Some of them do, I think. [G laughs]

G: Yeah, including me, apparently. I'm not actually a Deangirl. That's a complete lie. [C: Yeah.] I've been lying to you guys.

C: So, okay, your question is, does relating to Dean more make you like Sam more?

G: No, I think my question is, what the fuck is up with Sam this season? [laughs] What is his arc? [C laughs] What are we?

C: He starts off feeling very guilty about letting Lucifer out of the Cage, and he places all that blame on himself and his supposed weakness regarding his addiction. He starts, by as the show frames it, running away by trying to leave the hunting life, but he realizes- Okay, and then he realizes that he's Lucifer's intended vessel, [G: Yeah.] which I think reinforces the idea that something about him is inherently dirty and wrong. However, this is also when he and Dean join back up because of the realization that they are what keep each other human. After that, [G: Yeah.] I think they go through a lot of mini power struggles, which is like, sort of both of their arcs this season where Dean keeps treating Sam like, as he puts it, "like a snot-nosed kid that he has to keep out of trouble," whereas Sam keeps trying to like, I don't know. Like, take more responsibility for his actions and for saving the world, and that's sort of like a dynamic that they both work through most prominently in 5.18, and then afterwards, and then he jumps in that big hole. [laughs] But I think there is more besides his relationship to Dean that is part of the jumping in that big hole.

G: I think- I'm actually confused as to what they thought they were doing with the demon blood this season. Because last season, I think it's pretty clear.

C: Because of the Brady- I forgot if his name is Brady or Brody. It's Brady. Because of the Brady speech?

G: No, I think it's more of like, you know. Sam's motivation in the very beginning of Season 5 was like, "I need to stay away from the demon blood." And then the season ends, he drinks a fuckton of it to defeat Lucifer. [C: Sure does.] And if we are to- if it is implied in the show in any way that it was that power that the demon blood gave him, the kick of it all, that let him defeat Lucifer, I'll be like, "Okay, I can see where they're going with this. I think it goes completely averse to what they were trying to do in Season 4, but I don't know. I don't know." But I would see a path right? [C: Mm-hm.] As it is, I don't see a path.

W: Maybe it's the other way around?

C: As in?

W: Like, instead of them trying to write like, Sam getting over the demon blood, maybe it's about like, the people around him accepting that "Well, he had to do it. He had to take the demon blood."

G: Ah. Like, it's not about Sam, it's about Dean [laughs] like, is the vibe.

W: I guess. [C laughs]

C: That is how the show is. [G laughs] Yeah.

G: Supernatural is so funny. [W laughs] They have two leads. [C: Or do they?] The show needs to understand this. Yeah, exactly.

C: They have five brothers, but in other ways, they only have one brother.

G: Yeah. For fucking real.

C: Yeah, I think I can see that. I feel like I would see that more if the demon blood requirement for Lucifer to possess him came in earlier than what- 5.21? Is that when it first comes up?

G: Yeah. And especially because they don't really address Dean's pushback with this at all. Like, Dean pushed back against Sam jumping into the pit, but if we had even like-

C: It's because he's afraid of losing his brother, not because he's afraid of losing! [G laughs]

G: No, for real. But, you know, if we had even a little bit of insight of what Dean thought about the fact that Sam needed to drink a fuckton of demon blood for that, that would be a clearer line as well. I don't know. [C: Yeah.] I know at the last episode, they do this whole thing where Chuck was like, "And people are gonna hate this so bad because of the plot holes! But like, it's fine!" But I don't know. Some of the plot holes- it's not plot holes. It's like arc holes, you know? Which is like, a different thing.

C: Yeah. Emotional dissonance.

G: Yeah, and I wish that they had addressed it a little bit more. We also have Dean this season.

C: Wait, okay, I feel like-

G: Oh, okay, we stay with Sam.

C: Yeah, no, sorry! [G laughs] Okay, I think regarding Wanni's point about it being like, the people around Sam having to accept that he needs to drink demon blood, I think the demon blood-specific thing, they didn't do very well. Is it more of a- Okay. 'Cause for Sam, the whole drinking the demon blood, letting Lucifer possess him, that, to him, is like, "I'm finally taking responsibility for my actions. I let him out. I need to put him back in, [G: Yeah.] and through that, that requires me to both accept my nature as Lucifer's vessel and also reject it in a way that comes through my connections to other people." So like- is that what it is? It's about taking the inherent wrongness within you and using it to the extent to which you're comfortable and going, "No, I'm not actually wrong 'cause my brother wuvs me!"

G: I mean, that was kind of the point I was making earlier [C: Right.] about if they had- if they just put a little bit more of a point of like, "Sam was able to combat Lucifer specifically because he was powerful enough, specifically because of the demon blood," maybe that would be like a clearer line, but they don't do- Actually, they don't do anything with the demon blood this last episode.

C: I think they just throw it in for shock value in 5.21.

G: Yeah. What's so funny is like, it only works in when Cas talks about it. When Cas was like, "Yeah, you need to drink a fuckton of demon blood." That's the only time it actually matters, and in "Swan Song," it doesn't matter at all, so I don't know.

C: Well, he needs it so Lucifer can't possess him or some shit. I still don't understand that. Like Lucifer only needs to be able to possess him for long enough for him to jump into that hole, and Nick's completely fine. Though, okay, Cas did say that Nick was chugging gallons of the stuff, but he he probably had a few minutes between first being possessed and having to drink his first demon. You can jump in a hole in that amount of time.

G: For real. Dean. I mean, I don't know. He let go of Sam in the beginning of the season, and then he let go of Sam again at the end of the season. [C laughs] I don't know. No arc. That's my vote. [C laughing]

W: I think when he let go of Sam in that first episode of the season, it was like, "You can do whatever you want. I don't care. Like, do it. Whatever." Out of anger, like, not genuine. But at the end of the season, like letting go of him, it's like, "I trust you. I trust your decision." kind of thing.

G: So true. Yeah, no, you're right. The first one is about like, "If you're not going to follow me, then I won't ever bother you ever again," versus at the end, where it's like, "Even if you don't do what I want, I'll always be behind you. Like, I'll always have your back." Eh! Okay, whatever! There is an arc, sorry!

C: Yeah. And I think Dean's secondary arc is just about how he's so miserable and suicidal and ready to say yes to Michael and like, yeah, how he gets broken down over the season in that particular way. Like, it seems like Sam at no point gets- the whole season, Dean's like, "Sam, I don't trust you. I know you're gonna say yes to Lucifer as soon as my back is turned." which Sam has absolutely no inclination to do so. Whereas the whole season, Dean is losing more and more hope and thinking that saying yes to Michael might be the best or the only choice available to him. But I think that thing- that arc wraps up in 5.18 so that they can focus on the Dean learning to trust Sam thing in the remaining episodes. Except, well, by "remaining," I mean, I guess, 5.20 to 22 because 5.19 is "Hammer of the Gods," right? [laughs]

G: Yeah.

C: In which nothing of any good ever happens, and much of bad happens.

W: It was kind of funny to listen to the BABPod when, "Point of No Return," "This is the best SPN episode!" Then, "Hammer of the Gods" starts. "This is the worst episode!" [C laughing] I found that very funny.

C: The highs and lows.

G: It is actually incredibly funny that they're back to back. The thing is like, you're right with regards to like, Dean. It would have been more interesting for both Sam and Dean to address the fact that Dean almost did say yes as more than just like, something for that episode, and also connecting it to the fact that Dean was so convinced Sam was going to. So yeah. Because I mean, I still stand by this. 5.18 is one of the best episodes of like, the show so far. It really is very good. But it did also kind of like, stay there. I mean, Supernatural always has this issue just because of its format as a show. It kind of breaks out of it in later seasons, but as for now, that's just the reality of the situation. Yeah, I don't know. I do think Dean has a more- Dean's arc is focused on more by the show, or at least his feelings are focused on more by the show. And that is kind of a detriment to it that the show is always on his side, obviously. It is a detriment to Sam's characterization, but it is also a detriment to Dean's. To a lesser degree, but it also is. Because, like, I don't know, we never get to address a lot of his like, thinking that's not, you know, correct, especially with regards to Sam. Like, the fact that, again, he was gonna say yes. That is kind of a wild thing to think about. If you watch like the beginning of the season, like, Dean did pretty much almost say yes. Like, he was there. He was gonna do it.

We have Cas, Cas character arc.

C: His arc was looking hot on screen while horrible things happened.

G: To other people, exactly. But also to him, honestly. Terrible things also did happen to him. So sorry for erasing your suffering, Cas.

C: I think it mostly happened before 5.01. [G: Yeah.] I don't think additional horrible things happened to him. Well, no, he did find out that God didn't care. [G: Yeah.] But then he found out that God did care. So it worked out for him.

G: Yeah. I think honestly, the Season 5 arc for Cas is the clearest one. Like, it's the one where you most know what they were doing, or what they were trying to tell you. I do feel-

C: That he's an angel with a shotgun, fighting 'til the war's won?

G: Yeah, and that he, you know, lost his religion or whatever. There's a song called that, right? "Losing Your Religion"? [C: "Losing My Religion?"] Yeah, I've never heard it, and I never will. But yeah, I feel like the thing with Cas this season is, his arc isn't over because that arc is the main point of Season 6, the continuation of this. And yeah, so I feel like it's still incomplete, you know? Like, we started with Cas hopeful that God will help him, and then completely hopeless that he won't. And then in "Swan Song," he's like, "Oh my god! God loves me soo much." And we see the culmination of that in Season 6. Actually, Wanni, what do you think of Season 6 Cas?

W: Oh, that's like- I love him, and his- basically, since his arc with Crowley, and-

G: Yeah. They were kind of like frenemies in that season.

W: Yes, and it's like, regarding this, as you were discussing like his character arc, I was thinking, as you said, losing his religion. [G: Yeah.] So in Season 4, he learned to doubt and get rebelling at the end, and Season 5 is kind of like, he's dealing with the consequences of this. He's alone. He has- like, his whole family is on a different plane, and he doesn't have anyone except like, these humans. And he starts to build a new found family. So he's building relationships and kind of becoming a little human. [G: Yeah.] In that regards, he's more human than angel in Season 5, especially with him losing his powers. So it's about him holding into his faith that no matter what, everyone is against me, but I know what's right, and I have to believe in it, even if like, it means the people I'm betting on- like betting- Is this line like, "betting on a losing dog" or something? Kind of?

C: Yes.

G: Just like Mitski, yeah.

W: So he's like kind of this, but he's believing like, "I know the right thing. I know what my faith lies." And so in the end, when he's like, "God is back, he's helping us." He's like, "Okay, so this is like, the payback for what I believed in." [G: Yeah.] And then in Season 6, he kind of like- you know when someone gets power or getting money, when they're going from having no money to a lot of money, [G: Yeah.] there is this change in your psyche. Like, you don't know how to deal with all of this. I think that's what he's going through with Season 6.

G: I do think Cas's person- like, Season 6 is the big shift. After Season 6, Cas will be Cas as we know him. Well, obviously, this is Cas as you know him, Crystal, [W laughs] but it is Season 6 wherein he goes to become like, the Cas of the show. Like, there's a more thorough line- you know what I mean, right? Because I think of Supernatural as Season 9. Season 9 to me is like, peak Supernatural. That's what Supernatural is. [C: Mm-hm?] And I don't know. It's like, the distinction of Cas as a character really is pretty much Season 4, 5, 6, and then 7 is a nebulous space. And then 8 to 15's Cas is a different Cas from 4, 5, and 6. Just different disposition, different feelings, different everything. And it is the Season 6 arc that brings him there. Because I don't think it's the Season 4 and 5. 4 and 5 is a combo for Cas. But like, I don't think it's the what he went through in this apocalypse that changes him as a person. It's after. Because I mean, you can very clearly see, at the end of this season, he goes back to Heaven. And like, yeah, that he is still the soldier that he claims to be at this point. But it's after Season 6, after the big, complicated thing that he does and happens to him, that is when he starts to become more, I don't know, like- not human, I guess, but like, his philosophy shifts a lot. Although I think you can also say that about season 8 and 9 for many reasons, and then so you can claim that Season 10 to 15 is the Cas Cas that we know, which I already have a strong feeling I will make [laughs] when we get to Season 15. Okay. I'm allowed to change my mind, even within ten minutes.

C: Yeah. I haven't seen any of this, so I don't know if you're right. But why not? You're so correct.

G: For real.

C: When you say that the Season 6 is what makes Cas. Is it in the way that Season 4 makes Sam what he is because he like, goes super ambition, and reaches his like full power, or whatever, and then he spends like the rest of the show feeling bad about it?

G: Yes. And I think it's in the same way that Hell makes Dean what he- like, Season 3 makes Dean what he is.

C: Right. 'Cause he spends his whole life feeling bad about torturing people in Hell?

G: Yeah, or I don't know, just the Hell trauma in general. Yeah, you're right. This is the shifting points for the 3 characters.

C: Right. It's like, they take their desire for power or whatever to the extreme, and they're like, "Actually, I need to change the way I live my life," and then that's how they are for the rest of the show.

G: Yeah. But the way Supernatural deals with the "I need to change my life" is like, "I need to be guilty forevah!" [C laughs] So I don't know. [C: Yeah.] Supernatural is allegedly a show about family, but what it is is a show about guilt, like, honestly. [laughs]

G: Best Ep/Worst Ep. [C: Yeah.] Wanni, do you have an episode in Season 5 that you remember being good or just, you know, from hearing BABPod, you're like, "Crystal and Grey are so right about being good."?

W: Before the BABPod went to Season 5, mostly, I remembered, like, the finale episode. Episode 22. I loved it a lot. And after BABPod, I'm like, "Oh, Point of No Return" is also good. But I still think like, 22 is my favorite because of the whole, like opening scene.

G: Ah, the Chuck narration, you mean?

W: Yeah, with the Impala and everything. I think I'm like- I loved it a lot. I don't know why.

G: No, yeah, I did too.

C: I mean, you do have a car who's your baby also, right?

G: Yeah, you have a baby that is your car.

W: Oh, yeah, that's true.

G: Yeah. Do you think you love it even more because- do you think you have a more appreciation for the Impala after getting the car or not?

W: I think before getting my car, I was like, "What's Dean on about?" And then, after I got my car, I'm like, "Oh, that's my baby, that's true." [C laughs] [C: Yeah.]

G: Honestly- You know what's so funny is sometimes- I don't have a driver's license. I don't know how to drive. But sometimes I'll be like, "I think I need to learn how to drive so I can have a baby just like Dean Winchester." [all laugh] And I think I should, yeah. Who cares if it's an essential life skill? It's an essential Supernatural skill, and that's what matters.

C: Yeah. That post about how if you need Naruto encouraging you in your head to brush your teeth, then go for it.

G: Yeah, dattebayo, or whatever that post says. I've never watched Naruto.

C: Yeah, I've never watched Naruto. Yeah. I have a driver's license, but I don't have like, a car that is mine. [G: Your baby, yeah.] Yeah, maybe one day, if I have a car, I'll become a Deangirl. It'll just completely change my lease on life. Because being an older sibling and having a younger sister has not made me [G: For real.] relate to Dean in any way whatsoever. I think I need the car for it.

G: Yeah, you need the additional car. You need a leather jacket also. I think that's the one that completely changed me.

C: I have a leather jacket.

G: Oh, yeah. Ugh. [laughs] I'm sorry.

C: One time we called, and I had video on-

G: Yeah, and I was like, "What the fuck is up-"

C: And you said, "Why are you wearing a Dean Winchester leather jacket?" [laughs] A lot of characters have a leather jacket.

G: And you protested. You protested so much. Yeah. Wanni, do you call your car a name, or do you call it baby just like Dean Winchester?

W: My baby brother, when I got the car, he called it Sparky. So it became like, "Okay, this is Sparky."

G: Aw, that's so cute!

C: Aw, that's a good name for a car.

G: Yeah, that's a good one. Oh, Crystal, what's your top three? Or I don't know. Top one.

C: "Point of No Return" is good. I think I also recall liking- I don't know. I feel like "Point of No Return" is the standout one, and then there's some that I recall liking, but I don't think I can pick like, two out of those to be the other number 2 and 3. [G: Yeah.] I think I remember liking "The End," some of "Fallen Idols," "The Real Ghostbusters," [G: Yeah.] some of "Abandon All Hope," some of "Swap Meat." Were those the main ones that I liked? I think I liked some of "99 Problems" also. Yeah.

G: I think Season 5, we didn't really have a disagreement on quality of episode or like, whether we like it or not, like we would in previous seasons. I think this season, it's the same thing for me. Love "Point of No Return." It really was very good. And like, it's a standout for a reason, and I think it's a standout in the show in general. I love this episode. But other than that, I would say I don't- I like "Real Ghostbusters." That was a sleeper one. I didn't expect that at all. I mean, everybody knows "Point of No Return" is an iconic episode. I think it's just the surprise is in how good it was. But like, I thought "The Real Ghostbusters" were like, completely bad. And then we watched it, and it was good.

C: Yeah, I heard it was corny, tired, and played out.

G: Yeah, and it was good. It was amazing. I also quite like, I would say, "99 Problems." We talked extensively about the issues of misogyny in that episode, but the concept of the episode of like, how real people were affected by the Apocalypse was interesting to me and something that I think Supernatural would benefit touching on more just in general. I think many of the other episodes, it's like- Season 5 has a lot of iconic episodes. Some of them are just like, I thought they would be amazing, and then they were just fine.

C: Yeah. "Dark Side of the Moon" was a big disappointment.

G: Big, massive disappointment. I would say "Changing Channels," too. A little bit. [C: Yeah.] Yeah, so that was something. Quite sad! Anyway, speaking of worst episodes, I mean, obviously there's "Hammer of the Gods." [C laughs]

C: Yeah. Definitely the worst one.

G: Yeah, egregiously bad.

C: "Sam, Interrupted," egregiously bad. [G: Yeah.] For the five ableism points.

G: "Sam, Interrupted," egregiously bad. I would say I was disappointed by "Changing Channels," so that is something to me.

C: I think I'd put "Dark Side of the Moon" as my third worst episode. [G: Aw, yeah.] I remember being so irritated by every single second of it.

G: Yeah. What's your other two ones?

C: Oh. Besides "Hammer of the Gods" and "Sam, Interrupted"?

G: What's your other one? Yeah. Ah, okay. Sorry, whatever.

C: That's three, yeah. [C and G laugh]

G: So true. Well, Wanni, what was your least favorite episode this season?

W: "Hammer of the Gods," yes, that's one. [C laughs]

C: Yeah, no surprise there. Any others you remember disliking?

W: Ah, "Dark Side of the Moon," I only watched it once, and I can't rewatch it again. I can't get anywhere near it. Even if I see someone talking about it, I'm like, "Nope. Not going there." [C: Yeah.]

G: Why? Like, which specific part of the episode?

W: I think there was, if I remember correctly, there was a part where they were going through their good memories, and all of Sam's memories didn't have Dean in them. So that one got me for obvious reasons. It makes sense. But like, for me, it got me on a personal level, and I was like, "No, I don't want to think about it."

G: [laughs] Yeah. I mean, I think in "Swan Song" episode, I- because Crystal wasn't participating [C laughs], talked a lot about like, what Sam and Dean's relationship is like from Dean's perspective in a way that like, shows benevolence to Dean, and yeah, that is- I think, after "Swan Song," I have a lot more understanding of Dean's perspective. Because I think in "Dark Side of the Moon," when we talked about, it was very much like, "Ugh, hate Dean. So annoying," something something. But like, yeah. I don't know. It's complicated. And Supernatural doesn't do well with the complex, I think, especially with Sam and Dean, because of how egregiously they take Dean's side. If you like Sam more, you'd probably hate Dean a lot, right? Which is so not conducive to what they are actually trying to show, which is that shit is complicated. Like, family shit is complicated. So yeah, I don't know. I kind of like Dean! [laughs]

C: You're allowed to have your opinions.

G: And it's not a matter of thinking he's right or thinking what he's doing is correct. It's just a matter of, I can conceptualize where he's coming from, and I think the show does him a great disservice for treating it like the first kind, which is that everything he does is on the right.

C: Right. 'Cause then they're not like grappling with the complexity and nuance of his character. Is that the point?

G: Yeah.

G: Next, we have to do- Crystal, it's your time to shine. We need to do the spreadsheets.

C: Spreadsheets. Okay. I swear to God, everyone skips this section of our episodes because they're boring. Okay. So-

G: No, they listen to it because they want to hear me win, which I do and will. [C laughs]

C: Well, now they're gonna skip it. They know now! [G laughs]

G: Or maybe I will lose. This is what people listen for. Listen till the end.

C: Okay, well, we start with the misogyny, racism, and homophobia points section of our BABPod stats. So the episode with the most total points is, of course, "Hammer of the Gods." If we add in our bonus ableism points- Oh, okay, and also, "Hammer of the Gods" wins at 8 total points, 5 of which come from racism, and that is also the highest racism count of any episode in Season 5 to no surprise. If we count the bonus ableism points, we have 2 episodes following "Hammer of the Gods" at 7 total points, which are "Two Minutes to Midnight," 5.21, and "Sam, Interrupted," 5.11. In the misogyny column, the worst any episode got to was 4 points, and 3 episodes got this honor. They were "Abandon All Hope" because of the Ellen and Jo kill-off, I assume. "Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid" because of how they treated Karen in the writing, and "99 Problems" for obvious reasons with their portrayal of Leah. Racism, as I mentioned, 5 points, "Hammer of the Gods." Closest to that., there was one episode with 4 points which we gave to "Fallen Idols" because of the woman who spoke Spanish and their portrayal of Mahatma Gandhi. Homophobia-wise, the most any episode got was 3 points, and we gave that to both 5.21 and 5.22. I think 5.21 because of the Cobby kiss joke [G: Yeah.] and 5.22 because of when Dean calls Cas- I forgot the specific phrasing [G: A sissy, I think, yeah.], but I think "sissy" was in there. It was "junkless sissy." That's what it was. So those are our big winners in those categories. If we break this down by writer, so we have 7 writers who were throughout this season who are on more than one episode. Eric Kripke had the highest average misogyny count per episode at 3 points on average, tied with Nancy Weiner, who never wrote an episode individually, but wrote one with Sera Gamble and one with Kripke, so [G laughing] you can see why she would have ended up with a high average misogyny.

G: The combo of all time.

C: Obviously, Dabb-Loflin had the highest average racism score, an average of 2 racism points per their 4 episodes that they wrote, meaning that they contributed a total of 8 racism points to the season. And the highest homophobia also goes to Eric Kripke [G: Of course.] at 1.83 on average. So for-

G: Is Sera Gamble number 2?

C: Sera Gamble is number 2, but tied with Ben Edlund.

G: Wow! What what episodes did Ben Edlund do? 5.03?

C: Ben Edlund wrote "The End" and "Abandon All Hope" and [G: "Free to Be You and Me!"] "My Bloody Valentine" and "The Devil You Know." No, "Free to Be You and Me" was Jeremy Carver.

G: Oh, yeah. That's the one we argued about.

C: Yes. [laughs] Sure is. And then nobody ever wanted to listen to our podcast ever again. [G laughs] [G: Okay.] Why did we give "Abandon All Hope" two homophobia points?

G: [laughing] I don't know!

C: Oh, the "Got 'em." Was that the "Got 'em"? There we go.

G: Oh yeah, it's Cas looking at Crowley kissing that guy.

C: Yeah. So Eric Kripke wins for the highest average total bigotry, an average of 4.83 bigotries per episode that he wrote, of the 3 that he wrote. However, if we add in the bonus ableism points, then Dabb and Loflin have the highest average bigotry per episode at 6 points on average per episode. So that's the writers. [G: Hell yeah.] Moving on to IMDb scores...

G: Wow!

C: Wow! I wonder who won?

G: I wonder. Wait. You won last season, right?

C: I did win last season, and we theorized that it was because you guessed first and I guess second, so I had you to benchmark off, so this season, we switched for me guessing first and you guessing second, and now you won. So it does seem like whoever guesses first has an advantage.

G: But I also won- I think I won in Sason 1, 2, and 3.

C: Well, that may or may not be true. I wish I had a spreadsheet that I could check to see if that's true, but I simply can't, so. [G laughing] It is true.

G: Yeah. It is true. So thank you very much.

C: Yeah, Season 4 is the only season that I've won so far. So yeah, we're just returning to the same old same old. If we take the average absolute difference between my IMDb guess and the actual score, I've got an average of being off by 0.295, and gray is on average off by point 0.273. So he does win that one.

G: Yeah. I think what we should do next season is we go even and odd.

C: Even and odd. Okay, so switch who-

G: So like, all even episodes, I go first, yeah yeah yeah. [C: That makes sense.] Wow, the real scientific discoveries happening in Busty Asian Beauties, a Supernatural commentary podcast.

C: So true. So both of us were the most off in our guesses for "Hammer of the Gods." [G: Yeah.] Because we both thought they were in the 7 point territories, and it's actually at a 9.0 on IMDb. I got one episode exactly right. I guessed "Point of No Return" correctly. You got 2 episodes correct. You guessed "The Devil You Know," 5.20, and "The End," 5.04, correctly. [G: Hell yeah.] Yeah. And "The End" is also the one where we disagreed the most 'cause I thought it was an 8.6, and you correctly thought it was a 9.1. The episode where we disagreed the most secondly, was "Point of No Return," where I correctly said 8.8, and you incorrectly said 9.2.

G: Wow, really? [C: Yeah.] I love how I'm reacting to this like it's the first time I'm knowing this when we already did it in the past. [C laughs] But go on.

C: Yeah. If we do a breakdown by writer, the writer with the highest average IMDb score, per usual, I think, is Eric Kripke. Has it been Kripke every single season?

G: Probably, just because of the type of episodes he makes, but also he did write a really good one in "The Real Ghostbusters." Like, that is for real a good episode.

C: It's true. Yeah, I'm looking back and yes, he has consistently won the IMDb average each season, including this one. So his average is a 9.07. Followed by Bedlund, 8.93, followed by Nancy Weiner, 8.9, followed by Sera Gamble, 8.88, followed by Carver, 8.83, followed by Dabb-Loflin, 8.68, and then Julie Siege is our loser at an average score of 8.13, which is significantly- like, a whole 0.55 lower than Dabb and Loflin, the second lowest.

G: What are her episodes?

C: Julie Siege wrote "Fallen Idols" [G: Oh, yeah.] which got a really bad score [G: Oh, yeah, people hate that.] despite us having a decent time with it. "Swap Meat," which we also really liked and thought was fun, but got an 8.2. And "99 Problems," which got an 8.3, which we also thought was fun and rated higher. So we are consistently rating Julie Siege- yeah, she's the writer that we guessed the most off. On average, we guessed point 0.47 off. Or from me, 0.47 off. For you, 0.43 off. And yeah, we consistently thought that she got higher scores than she did, because I think we liked her work and IMDb did not. So yeah. Grey won. Congrats, Grey!

G: Thank you very much. It's a great honor, as always. As it has been 3 times before. [laughs]

C: Yeah, exactly. [laughs] Congrats again.

G: Okay, we ought to do ranking of seasons.

C: Yeah, currently, you have that your favorite season is 1, followed by 4, followed by 2, followed by 3. I have that my favorite is 4, followed by 1, followed by 2, followed by 3.

G: Wanni. [W: Yes.] If you are to place Season 5- Okay, if you are to rank Season 1 to Season 5, what would your ranking be?

C: Yeah, best to worst. What do you think?

W: I think I placed 4 as first. [C: Mm-hm.] Then Season 1, then 5, then 3. Ah, 2, where- I guess 2 would go at the end. [G: Huh.]

C: Okay. Say more about that. I think Gray and I both put 3 below 2.

W: I'm a little inclined to mostly Cas. Like, Cas should go at the top. Cas seasons are at the top. [C: Of course.] For Season 2, I think because I don't remember much of it.

G: [laughs] So true.

W: So I think I'd place it down.

G: To be fair, Season 2 really is like a- the vibe is like, you're right. They don't really know what they're doing or what it's about. They kind of find that footing at the end of the season. So yeah.

C: Season 2 has a lot of individual bangers, though. "Houses of the Holy"-

G: Yeah, that's the thing. Season 3 doesn't have many individual bangers, but it has an arc. It has a season arc, and that's something.

C: Yeah. So I can see why 3 would be above 2. Yeah, what were the other Season 2 bangers besides "Houses of the Holy"? 2.01, which now, I don't remember the name of it. I just remember the BABPod name of "FEET!" [G: Yeah.] "In My Time of Dying." That's what it was called.

G: [laughs] "FEET!" Exactly.

C: The fucking- the Meg possession one. What was that one called? "Born Under a Bad Sign." That one. That was a banger. I think those are the main Season 2 bangers, but they do stand out.

G: Yeah. Actually, Wanni, what's your favorite season of the show?

C: Like overall, not just of the 1st five.

W: All of them- 15 seasons? [G: Wow!] I still think Season 4.

G: Season 4. Really?

W: Yeah.

G: I thought when you said "all 15 seasons," I was like, "Wow, is Wanni making the very, very spicy take of they love all 15 seasons of Supernatural?" [G and W laugh] But no, Season 4, yeah. Season 4, really? The introduction of Cas, obviously, but what else?

W: Yeah, and the whole angels thing, like with their- Because it was the first introduction of the angels, like with the wings, like how they die, and the whole structure of the angel thing because it was their first introduction kind of like, hits the most.

G: Yeah, this is true.

C: Yeah, the aesthetics of Season 4 are probably the best.

W: Yes, that's the thing.

G: Yeah, that's also true. Season 4 actually does look good. I have been thinking about 4.01, "Lazarus Rising" recently, and how the episode like, looks good. It looks good. And yeah. Something that I'm not looking forward to for the rest of the show is the look of the show. [laughs] [W: Yes.]

C: The coloring gets worse and worse.

G: They kind of lose it after this one. Actually, they kind of already lose it in Season 5, but, you know. Where would you place Season 5, Crystal, in this little list of yours?

C: I'm still trying to figure it out! It's been so long since I've watched those earlier seasons. I'm a completely different person.

G: I have one.

C: I... I might put it after Season 2. [laughs] [G: Really? You like-] Is that insane?

G: Um, a little bit. But okay, can you say what your reasoning is in all the ways?

C: I just think Season 2 has real bangers, and Season 5 only has fake bangers. [C and G laugh]

G: Alright. You know what? [C: What?] I place Season 5 in number one.

C: [laughing] What? [G laughing] Okay. Say more.

G: I think, well, one, it's better than Season 4 for me, just because we did not have a good time in Season 4. [C: True.] I don't know if you recall, if you remember, in any way, shape, or form-

C: We left because how we were having a bad time.

G: I hated- like, Season 4, it probably would have been fine on a binge, but doing it in the BABPod way was truly miserable. Season 5, loved doing it per week. And like, I don't know. I like the episodes, I like them, I like Cas, etc. Maybe that's it. Maybe that's the whole thing. I just like Cas. Also, I think it is better than Season 1. [C: Hm.] Actually, that's a lie. [C: Hm.] You know what? I'm going to make it number two. [W laughs] Actually, I made it number one because I was like, "I can't just have season one be the best of all time. What? The best of us is behind us" or whatever? Like, that's so unfair. But yeah. I do think the best of us is behind us or whatever. So my new ranking is-

C: I feel like it could be better than Season 1, is the thing. I know I have it as the second-worst season and Season 1 as the second-best, [G laughs] but like, maybe Season 5 is better than Season 1.

G: It is. I've been telling you. I have been telling you. No, I actually retracted-

C: You've been telling me for the last one second, and then immediately retracted it? [G laughs]

G: Exactly. My ranking is 1, 5, 4, 2, 3.

C: I think about Season 1 more, and it's like, a lot of the episodes, you could just throw them away, and it would be completely fine, perhaps better. [G: Yeah.] Like, I feel like Season 1 has like, a good arc, [G: Season 1 has a good arc.] and it has some very good individual episodes that build up that arc-

G: Yeah. The characterization. The nostalgia factor. Good luck.

C: Yeah. You could kill a lot of episodes, though.

G: Season 1 is good, yeah.

C: But like, I don't know. Like, just think about like a random case. Like, think about like fucking "Hook Man," right? Like, did we need "Hook Man"? Did anyone need "Hook Man"?

G: We don't need Supernatural at all. [C laughs] We never have to think about "need" in terms of Supernatural, Crystal. [laughs]

C: Okay, say, we're in a world where we need Supernatural bites to live. [G laughs] [G: Okay.] Would we need a "Hook Man" bite to live?

G: [laughs] To be fair, "Hook Man" is notoriously bad to me just because of how they characterize Sam, and also the fact that we gave Sam, like, 5 misogyny points or whatever-

C: [laughing] And Samgirls hated us for it.

G: - And Samgirls apparently hated us for it. So yeah, okay, we can live without "Hook Man."

C: But I mean, I feel like a lot of episodes of Season 1 we could live without. Let me pull up IMDB Season 1 of Supernatural.

G: It's not about living with or without. Just like U2 said. "With or without you," or whatever. [laughs] I don't actually know what U2 said. What is the whole lyric of that?

C: 1.02. Bad. What? I have no clue. 1.02, bad. 1.03, literally introduced the Andreaverse. [G laughs] 1.04, like maybe the John voicemail at the end. You can put that in another episode. 1.05, good. 1.06, didn't love it! 1.07, "Hook Man," get it out of here. 1.08, "Bugs." What the fuck? Who needs that? 1.09, "Home." Okay, we keep that one. "Asylum," we keep that one. "Scarecrow," we keep. "Faith," we found incredibly disappointing. "Route 666," put Cassie in a different episode. "Nightmare," like, fine.

G: Wait. Just just to pause this fucking experiment of yours [C: Yeah.] [C laughs], I thought the lyrics for U2's "With or Without You" is "I can live with or without you." Apparently, the lyrics are "I can't live with or without you," which is incredibly funny.

C: Don't they mean the same thing? Doesn't that mean the same thing as I can live with or without you in some ways?

G: No, "I can live with or without you" is like, "I don't care about you." "I can't live with or without you" is like, I need you to live, but also, you're like- damned if you do, damned if you don't is the vibe. You know what I mean?

C: Okay, for the singer, it changes their mood quite a bit, but for the "you" like, it doesn't change at all what they're meant to do.

G: Yeah. And what are they meant to do? Die? [laughs] What is the conclusion of the song?

C: Whatever they want, because either way, it doesn't affect the singer. [laughs]

G: Maybe this is true. Anyway, that's also how I feel about Supernatural. [laughs] [C: Yeah.] I can't live, with or without Supernatural. Anyway. My point is, I think Season 1, you know, you don't have to defend yourself, Crystal. If you think Season 5 is better than Season 1, you're free to do as such.

C: Yeah. I think I just need to change my entire ranking system and just move Season 1 down. But are we allowed to do that?

G: No. [laughs]

C: Okay. I guess I'm stuck with the order of 4, 1, 2, 5, 3 forever, then.

G: Okay, you can change it. Sure, why not? It's gonna be-

C: Well, Season 1 is better than 2 and 3, though. The thing is that 5 is better than 1 but worse than 2. [laughs] So like, this doesn't work out. I think we need to be plotting these in 3D.

G: [laughs] I think you can create a wonderful formula for this, you know, in Desmos or whatever.

C: Oh my god, I haven't been on Desmos in forever! Desmos, baby, I miss you! Desmos doesn't do 3D, though. Wanni, any thoughts on our season rankings that you want to throw out there real fast?

G: Would you say Season 1 is good? What is your opinion on Season 1?

W: I think I like what they were- what they were going with. [C: Mm.] Last night, I was thinking about the concept of God and Supernatural. I think there was a post on Tumblr about how God works as a metaphor for father. I think also that's a- correct me if I'm wrong, I think also, that's in Christianity. [G: Yeah.] God is often referred to as "father." So I really liked God being like a metaphor for father, like an absent father or deadbeat dad. So afterwards, when they actually brought God in the show, I was kind of disappointed with it. So I really like the simplicity of Season 1. This is the story. This is raw. This is what we're doing.

G: Yeah. And I think there is something to the lack of certainty that they had about things. And, you know, they were uncertain about John, obviously, but they were also uncertain about everything. About angels, about God. But you know, it's just a season where it feels more grounded in reality in that they didn't know what was happening a lot of the time, and we lose that in future seasons because Sam and Dean-

C: - are the most special guys in the world.

G: Yeah. And also, you know, just the natural progression of competency. In Season 1, they were fuck-all hunters who kind of didn't know what they were doing a lot of the time, so.

W: They were just some guy.

C: Exactly.

G: So that’s it for this episode of Busty Asian Beauties. Before we leave off, Wanni, do you have any things that you want to plug that our listeners can go to or look at or whatever?

W: First, I want to say, like, thank you for having me, and I really appreciate the podcast. It really makes my day [C: Aww.] while I'm driving to work, or before work, I was listening to it in college. [G: Aww.] So I really appreciate it. For my social media, I'm mostly on Tumblr at arabriddler. [G: Yeah.] And on AO3, I use Match_less.

C: Nice.

G: Hell yeah.

C: Also, I want to say, like, sometimes when Grey and I are like, not in a good mood for doing the podcast, we'll be like, "No, but we're doing this for Wanni to listen to in their car!" [G and W laugh] So like, the appreciation goes both ways. Like, yeah.

G: Oh, yeah, next week we will be discussing Season 6, Episode 1: "Exile on Main St." Leave us a rating or a review wherever you get your podcasts!

G: Yeah. You can email us any feedback, comments, or inquiries at [email protected]. And if you wanna tell us about your like, Season 5 thoughts, culminating thoughts, your opinions for the oncoming Season 6, feel free to email us or give us asks or whatever. See you guys next time! [C and G] Bye!

[guitar music]

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bustyasianbeautiespod · 1 month ago

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Episode 104 Transcript: Endings Are Hard, But Then Again, What Isn’t

[intro guitar music]

G: Hello, it's Grey.

C: Hello, it's Crystal.

G: And this is Busty Asian Beauties, a Supernatural commentary podcast where I, someone who has seen this show many, many times...

C: And I, someone who only knows the show through social media, discuss every single episode of Supernatural from start to finish. Also, we are both Asian.

G: Both Asian! For this episode, we do have a very special one, obviously. [C laughs] It’s 5.22: "Swan Song," written by Eric Kripke and Eric Gerwitz, directed by Steven Boyum. I'm surprised it's a Steve Boyum edit. Or director.

C: Yeah, it's usually a Robert Singer situation.

G: Usually, it's fucking Robert. I guess it's fucking Steve this time. Nice one.

C: Steve, who directed "The End" and "The Song Remains the Same." Both pretty good episodes.

G: Yeah. This episode, obviously, is good. [laughs]

C: It's pretty good.

G: It's pretty good. For a long time, I really pushed back against the idea that Supernatural should have ended in Season 5. The pushback comes from the thing that I still do believe, that Supernatural as an experience is the entire show. Supernatural as an experience does have to include Season 9 at the very least, you know?

C: R- Season 9?

G: Yeah, for me, Season 9-

C: The one that made you quit? [G laughs]

G: No, Season 11 is the one that made me quit. Don't lie to the Internet.

C: Wait. I thought, was it- I thought it was- Okay. Yeah. 'Cause I was like, "It was a season where Cas was super miserable." [G: Yeah, Season 11.] But he's super miserable in a lot of seasons. [G: Yeah.] Season 11, he was miserable because of Casifer?

G: Yes. Or like, he wasn't in the season. He was only half in the season because the other half, he's like, in his own brain, imprisoned by Lucifer in his body.

C: Yeah. You made it through Season 7, though.

G: Yeah. But the thing is like, there's like, different kinds of miseries, and I think the Season 11 misery was like, specifically hard-hitting for me. That's why it made me so miserable. [C: Yeah.] Versus like, Season 9, where it was miserable, but like, Cas was like, he believed in himself, [both laugh] and he was like, trying, versus in Season 11 when he was just so depressed and miserable, and I was like, "Well, that sucks! I'm gonna stop watching the show!" That's not true. I watched until Season 12, but I've lost heart. I was just holding on for the bit. [laughs] That's irrelevant. Now, I think I understand the idea of like, "It should have ended in Season 5." Supernatural, the experience, should have gone on, and it did go on, and that's like, the crux of it, that it did go on. But Supernatural, the story that they set out to tell, yeah. This is it. [C: Yeah.] And Sam should have not come back, and this should have been it. It is actually a very good conclusion to many of the things Supernatural was trying to tell. I mean, I'm speaking so much. What are your thoughts, opinions, violent reactions, etc?

C: I really don't have much. I just sat for 42 minutes. And I was like, "Okay. TV." [laughs]

G: Aw, really? [C laughs] [C: Yeah.] I was really into it, I think maybe because of the throwback of it all or something. Yeah, I mean, a lot of the things that charmed me with it are like, the things that when I first watched this, I didn't really think about or consider [C: Right.] or really internalize. And now I'm like, older, and I've had more experiences in life, and it's like, "Wow! It means something different!" Just like "New Partner" by Palace Music from that one Anthropocene Reviewed episode.

C: Yeah. It's a pretty good song.

G: Well, what did you know about this episode before going in?

C: Sam has to drink a bunch of jugs of demon blood so that Lucifer can possess him.

G: Which we don't even see. [laughs] Kind of wild. [C: Yeah.] Like, they really DGAF about this now.

C: Yeah, yeah. Dean drives over to where the final battle is gonna take place to be with Sam because he wuvs him. Sam has flashbacks about toy soldiers and shit in the Impala, which causes him to be able to take back control and jump into the pit with Adam. Before that-

G: Yeah. On SPNblr, they put a Phoebe Bridgers song over it, and they're like, "Wow! It fits perfectly!" but I hate Phoebe Bridgers so like, I don't give a fuck. I just wanted to bring it up because I thought you would maybe care.

C: I think I've probably seen that video. [G: Yeah.] Was it with "I Know the End"?

G: Yes, I think so.

C: Before that, Lucifer explodes Cas with his brain, but Cas comes back and heals Dean, who's bloody and kneeling on the floor, and Dean asks if he's God. Dean promises Sam that he'll go and have a normal life with Lisa, [G: "Go have a normal life!"] and also Cas brings him back soulless, and Chuck smirks and is revealed to be God for real for real. [G laughs]

G: [laughing] I'm laughing so much at my own joke, and it's so not funny. You didn't even laugh.

C: You just said, "Go have a normal life," but with some emphasis on certain words?

G: [laughing] Yeah, well. I think I'm going through something [both laughing] completely unrelated to this episode. Okay, yeah. I mean, that's pretty much the whole episode. Was there anything that you saw, and you were like, "Oh! Didn't know that." or "Oh! That surprised me!"?

C: Um... no. [G: Not really. Okay.] I think I didn't know about the Chuck narration framing device being throughout the episode.

G: Oh, really? That was always something that I really liked about this episode. I quite liked it. I did find at the end that it kind of falls apart, the idea that Chuck is like, writing the book or a book when he starts explaining the themes and motifs to you. [both laugh]

C: Like, "They died for family."

G: "It's for famiwy!" But yeah. [laughs]

C: Like, was it, though? Like, it was, but was it? [G: I don't know.] I mean, I don't really see how Sam, jumping into the pit was for family.

G: I did also think about the fact that he was like, "Oh, the thing about endings is everyone's gonna be pissed at you no matter what, and like, there's always going to be plot holes and stuff." And it's like, this is not like- Like, you can just fix those things, I think. [C laughs]

C: You don't have to do it.

G: It's just so fascinating to be watching this now, knowing how Supernatural will eventually end, [C: Bad.] which is that it's going to be a highly controversial, honestly godawful finale. And it's like, yeah, well, that sucks. This one was good, though, so, end of an era. Honestly, I feel so old is how I feel watching this episode. I'm like, "I've been a Supernatural fan for so long. I have been doing this podcast for what feels like just a blip of my life, but it's also been quite a while!" [C: Yeah.] I don't know. I feel a bit haggy, as people would say. [C laughs] We're one-third of the way. [C: Yes.] Have you thought about that? [C: Yes.] Yes. We've already gone through two universities Zoom rooms. [C: True.] And we'll go through maybe a bit more. Let's see. That's actually why you need to go to grad school.

C: I need to get into grad school so I can have a Zoom Business account.

G: It's not for literally any other reason other than to have a a university account on Zoom. [C: Yeah.]

G: We start the episode. It's "Carry On, My Wayward Son." And I will admit-

C: It's not good.

G: - it does get to me. [C: Oh.] No!

C: I thought you were gonna admit that this "Then" sequence is like, not good in any way.

G: I mean, the "Then" sequence was fine. I don't think it's particularly good or bad. I think it's whatever.

C: I don't think they had any themes or motifs in it. [G laughs]

G: Yeah, exactly. I mean, they were trying to do like, family, I think.

C: It was a summary at best.

G: Which is- "They were trying to do family, I think" is like, the thesis of Supernatural.

C: How was it family? It was just them killing a bunch of things to music.

G: They like, hug, and they're like, "Wow, we're brothers." They don't actually say that. They just hug. The brothers part is implied. [C laughs]

C: The hugging brothers, yeah.

G: Anyway, I do think "Carry On, My Wayward Son" is something. I don't know.

C: Yeah, it's a song that exists. That's what it is.

G: No, I mean, I like that there's a Supernatural song. I do. And I know that I'm speaking to the choir or maybe I'm speaking to the guillotine crowd, [both laugh] but like, I love Supernatural. And it's nice that it has things to it. [both laughing] Which is the bare minimum. The bare minimum of a show-

C: Yeah, okay. Having an unofficial theme song is a way to have the show stick in your mind and imbue some things with significance. Sure, yeah.

G: Yeah. You know, sometimes, you'll meet a Supernatural fan, and you'll have nothing whatsoever in common in thoughts, beliefs, values, etc. [C laughs] But you both are affected by this song in ways inexplicable, so I think that's fine.

C: Yeah. [laughing] Remember that time [G: What?] you said Dean's sex dream had two women in it, so the song should have been "Cherry Pies" instead of "Cherry Pie"? [G laughs] There are two sons in Supernatural. I think the song should be "Carry On, My Wayward Sons." [G screams] And in some ways, there's five brothers in Supernatural, which makes it even more important that it should be "Carry On, My Wayward Sons."

G: [laughing] Yeah, exactly. It should have been- we need to change the rock and roll music genre as a whole. And the two ways we're gonna do is to change "Cherry Pie" to "Cherry Pies" [C: Yeah.] and "Carry On, My Wayward Son" to "Carry On, My Wayward Sons." "Carry On, My Wayward Children," you know? Gender neutral.

C: Yeah. Supernatural doesn't have anybody who's like the first sister, though. [G: Yeah, this is true.] Charlie, maybe?

G: But she's like a sister that Dean never had, so Dean doesn't have her as a sister. [both laughing] I don't know. Why is it that there's no sis- [laughing] What happened to all the sisters in Supernatural? [both laughing]

C: Who knows?

G: Who knows?

C: Jo?

G: Yeah, she died. They all got pushed out by the band Kansas is what happened. [C: Yeah.] The "Then" sequence is whatever. I just like talking about the the song.

C: [laughing] I just remembered how [G: What?] the jokes about Cas murdering the band Kansas before the finale, so that they could form at the planned party in the finale in Heaven?

G: [laughing] Supernatural is kind of a bad show.

C: I'd watch a miniseries slasher spinoff where Cas kills the band Kansas.

G: You know what? I would actually think I'd watch a documentary of what happened in the Season 15 writers room and production team of Supernatural. [C: Yeah.] I think I would be curious, and I would want to watch it. [C: I don't think it's big enough-] Release the tapes, or whatever. Isn't that a thing? Like, people were like, there's a-

C: They were saying that to Jackles about the Destiel confession, yeah.

G: Yeah. So true. Release the #tapes or something. I think it's #ReleaseTheTapes. Also, I can stop making hashtag jokes. They're like, not funny. [C laughs] But you know. We start the episode, as you said. And we continue it, as you said, with a voiceover from Chuck. And he is- this is like, him typing on his computer, and he's writing the show or writing this part of the book. It is always so fascinating to me the idea that like, every episode is a book. I mean, I suppose, whatever. It's like Nancy Drew or something.

C: Yeah. His voiceover is over some grainy footage of like, a car manufacturing plant. He says that there was like, a really famous car that rolled off the line at a plant in Jamesville, and three days later, there was another car that no one gave a fuck about, but it was, in fact, the most important car- no, the most important object in the universe! And this car is the Impala. He says that the first owner was an alcoholic with two ex-wives and spent-

G: - Sal Moriarty, which is an On the Road reference.

C: Ah. Yeah, that's right, that's right, 'cause-

G: I tried to read that book, you know?

C: How was it?

G: I didn't finish it. It was okay. I didn't finish it. Yeah, there was one scene- there's only one thing I remember from that book, which is that Dean Moriarty, he was like, the suave lover boy or whatever. They visited a friend who is so proud that he bagged a hot lady as a girlfriend. [C: Okay.] And so they're like, sitting down, and he's like, bragging about his hot girlfriend, and then Dean is just like, in the corner, like, bored or whatever. And then, as they are about to go, like, the group of friends, he turns to the girlfriend, he points to his watch, and he symbols 3, as in with his hand. And then he comes back later at 3 PM, and they have sex. [laughs] [C: Okay.] That's the only thing I remember. Maybe it's a wonderful book, but you know, I don't know, 'cause I didn't finish it.

C: Yeah. It inspired Supernatural. How good could it be? [G: This is true.] Apparently, on weekends, he would drive around, giving Bibles to the poor, and then after that the car ended up, at Rainbow Motors, which we saw in 4.03. It shows the flashback of John buying her-

G: Buying it, yeah.

C: - and Dean advising him to do so. "That's where the story begins and where it ends."

G: You know, they tried to do this thing where they're like, "Oh, where it begins is where it ends" by like, also putting it in Stull Cemetery in Lawrence, and it's like, what's this corny- Like, it's so funny to me that it's like, "Oh, this is where it begins and where it ends," and by "it" they mean like, the Apocalypse. And it begins in Lawrence, Kansas [laughing] 22 years ago or whatever? I don't know. It's kind of stupid, honestly. But okay, slay.

C: Yeah, I did groan when he said that the Impala was the most important car - no, object - in the universe. Like, yeah, I guess it stopped the Apocalypse. Well, why couldn't you say that toy soldier was the most important object in the universe? There are many things involved in that that were an important thing in the universe.

G: I do think there is like a- I feel like they missed a beat a little bit where they're trying to say that like, it's important because it was love and like, [C: Yeah, and their home.] how, you know, Sam and Dean saved the world because they loved each other, and they saved the world because they loved this car. And you know, and it's like, stuff like that. But the way the framing is like, "Oh, it's the most important. It's where it all began. It's the most important thing. Sam and Dean are the most important people." And it's like, okay, so are they important because of a fundamental importance? Or are they important because they love things and each other? Like, what is it?

C: And also, the little interlude where he's like, "Lucifer doesn't care what car they drive." It kind of came out of nowhere, and I don't think they really brought it home in any way.

G: Actually, I like that line. I would disagree with you. [C: Okay.] What do you mean they didn't bring it home, though? I'm interested in that.

C: I get what they were trying to do. It's like, "Lucifer doesn't love" [laughs] or whatever. [G: Yeah.] But like, I don't know. Whatever. Who cares? [laughs] is what I feel about that. And also, he does in the scene with Michael, I think, so, I don't know about that.

G: You know what? That entire portion, I was thinking, "How the fuck are we- like, Crystal and I, gonna talk about this?" [C: Yeah.] It's such a weird scene, and I have no idea what they were trying to do, really.

C: "Let's not fight, pwease!"

G: "Let's not fwight!"

C: It's like, okay, well, maybe they should negotiate the the stuff where you're starting the Apocalypse if you're gonna be doing the "let's not fight" thing. Is it just he leaves, and you continue ending the world? What are the terms?

G: Yeah. I think what they were trying to do there is that like, Lucifer thinks he knows everything about Sam and Dean, and he does, but like, he doesn't understand what those things mean. So like, he knows that they have this car but like, he doesn't care, and he doesn't consider that this is something they care about and can change the trajectory of their lives forever. So yeah. I think that's what I was trying to do, and I like that. And I think I also like that- I mean, it was revealed to us. But like, the things that make the story of like, the Lego bricks and the toy soldier, like, these are things that we're not privy to in the story. Like, we are privy to it now, but it implies a larger, grander life for Sam and Dean that we are not privy to, and yeah, I think that's the point of it. The existence of their life outside of this story. And I think that's what makes this episode so charming. It's like, yeah, they're like, we are told all of these things, but at the end of the day, there are things that we just won't know or won't understand. And that's pretty cool!

G: We are now in the salvage yard, and they have a heart-to-heart where Dean tells Sam that "Yeah, you can do- like, I'm in with your plan." And Sam asks like, "Okay, so you're gonna let me say yes now?" And Dean says, "No, I'm not gonna let you do anything. You can choose what to do. If it's what you want to do, then it's what you want to do, and I'll back you up."

C: Yeah, which is nice. I did like this line. [G: Yeah.] And he cuts it with a joke where he says, "You're a grown- well, overgrown man," which feels right. [G: Yeah.] I feel like he would need to make a tall joke in order to get through these sentences.

G: Yeah. And this part, it did get to me. Whatever. [C laughs] It always gets to me when they do this like, "You're my little brother!" [laughs] bullshit.

C: They did this four episodes ago. Like, if he just stopped there, it'd be fine. When he kept talking, I was like, "You did this four episodes ago."

G: I think it's because this is the episode where we see it in action. Like, Dean always says this shit. He always says like, "You're my little brother" or whatever. [C laughs] But like, this is the episode where we see that. Like, we see him, I don't know, staying with Sam in there and like, telling him that, like, "I'm here. It's okay."

C: Wait, this speech isn't "You're my little brother." This speech is "I've always treated you like my little brother in a way that denied you autonomy, so I'm gonna stop."

G: Uh, yeah, you're right. So I'm talking about scenes from later on. [laughs]

C: - that are completely unrelated to the thing he's saying right now.

G: No, I think- I think- I don't know. I think there's just something to Dean's character where, okay. So like, ugh, I'm gonna get emo, whatever the fuck. [both laugh] But you know, the concept of Dean as a character who took care of his little brother is, of course, very prominent in the show. I don't know. I think when I was younger, I didn't really understand it, mostly because when I was youngerm I was the youngest in our family, so I didn't have like, a little sibling, and so I always thought of it as like, you know, it's the same deal. Like, I have older siblings. I get it. But I do think it is like, such a different experience to have a person in your life that you think of as someone you take care of, and I think that is something that I have taken for granted in terms of Dean's characterization. Like, I do think it's something. And like, you know, in this scene, he talks about how he thinks it's his job to take care of Sam because Sam's like, not a baby anymore. So that's like, that shouldn't be their relationship anymore. But yeah, I don't know. I think Dean- like, if Sam and Dean, like, Sam and Dean, I don't know. I think the problem with their dynamic is that Dean thinks of himself as Sam's parent, but Sam wants Dean to be his older brother, which, those are like, very different things, right? [C: Yeah.] And I mean, it's difficult for them because they have a complicated childhood. Yeah, I just think, like, I don't know. There's this one poem that I came across a while back, and it's something about how like, this older father talking to his son, and the son- the poem describes his son as like, having a receding hairline, so he's also old now. And he tells his son, like, "Oh, calm down on the bread because they have big portions here. You don't want to get full too fast." And the kid turns to his dad and goes, "Are you really like, telling that to me? Like, I'm like, an adult or whatever. It's such a funny thing to say to an adult. You say that kind of shit to children." And then the poem goes like, "Sometimes, when we're walking and there's a curb, I still like, reach out for your hand." And like, yeah. I feel like that is kind of like Sam and Dean’s dynamic. You know, whatever. Whatever. Whatever. [laughs]

C: You're allowed to have feelings even if I don't.

G: Yeah, that's true. Well, yeah, it gets to me. I don't know. It's not gotten to me before in the past, I think, because I just it wasn't something I could connect with, but yeah.

C: [laughs] You couldn't couldn't with it four episodes ago when he said literally the exact same words?

G: No, I just- no, I just- well yeah, I couldn't, because it wasn't placed in the context of like, what happens later in this episode or at least not so directly. Yeah. I think here's a lot to Dean's insecurity about like, "Oh, I love Sam so much, and I have dedicated so much of my life and my mental energy and everything to taking care of this 'kid.' And to Sam it's like, nothing." But like, I think that is the dynamic of a parent and a child a lot of the time. And so, yeah. I've been thinking about that with Sam and Dean.

C: What is "to Sam, it's like nothing" mean?

G: To Sam, he wants to get out of here. His vision is to be separate from Dean and etc. And I think, you know, the idea of like, "This is not a person who's like, not my responsibility anymore." is something that every parent has to go through eventually, right? But like, I think with Dean, it's difficult, because he's not Sam's parent. He is four years older than Sam, something something child development, something something blah blah blah, [C laughs] but also, I think when it is apparent, I think even when you're older, there is still the idea of like, "This is a person who is supposed to give me guidance even if I am a person on my own, etc etc. My parent is still here to give me guidance." And because Sam and Dean, their relationship didn't transcend to that dynamic because they are not father and son, they're brothers, that's the crux of why their relationship is so complicated and difficult. And I- I feel for it, you know?

C: So you feel like it's Dean thinking himself of himself as Sam's parent that caused all the hurt over Sam wanting to leave?

G: I think it's that he is like, he is conflating those relationship roles, I think, is the reason. Like, he wants a peer, he wants a friend, he wants a brother, but at the end of the day, Sam, their dynamic is so parental, often so parental, that it just- it's difficult for it to work out that way.

C: Okay. Sure. I feel like- [laughs] I mean, in my experience, parents like it when you go to college. [laughs] No, but I guess- I don't know. I feel like, yeah, okay, I think what you mean about the conflating makes sense. He has the feeling responsible for Sam part, and then the brother and friend part of like, "Let's stick togethah forevah," [G: Yeah.] so that's what causes the problem.

G: Yeah, like, he wants to be BFFs with Sam, but also, he thinks of himself as someone who raised the kid. And those are like, difficult concepts to combine together. Yeah.

C: Yeah like, the raising makes him feel like Sam owes him something like, obedience or companionship?

G: Yeah. Yeah. [C: Yeah.] And it's difficult to let go of those dynamics, I suppose. Well yeah, I mean, it does get to me.

C: They had four years to get over it, I think. [laughs]

G: Well, he had two years because the Supernatural timeline is fucked up, but yeah.

C: Right. They may have talked at college for the first two years, or that could have just been a script mistake.

G: I don't know. It's something that I think about because- I mean, whatever. I think I talk about my siblings a lot this show, but I do have like, a younger sibling who's a kid. Like, an 8-year-old.

C: Yeah. Quite a different age difference than Sam and Dean.

G: Of course. But like, I also think about like, the concept of like, you know, being a parent versus being a sibling and like, how we ought to- how do you do that. And like, with Sam and Dean, obviously, as I keep on saying, Dean is just four years older than Sam. And like, I don't know, I was thinking about- Sorry, I'm just rambling. [laughs] [C: No.] Well, I was thinking about way back, we had an episode where there was like, something homophobic that Sam says to Dean, and you went, "Yeah, it sucks that he says this, but this is just how they talk, and I'm assuming Dean started it when they were kids." And I think at the time I was like, "Yeah, you're right." But like, I gave it a little bit of a think, and I'm like, "Wait, Dean's also a kid." [laughs] [C: Yeah?] You know, that's the thing about them. It's like, I think also that's why maybe it's also difficult for Sam to hold Dean accountable. Like, he can't find it in himself to think of Dean as somebody who has caused him hurt or whatever, because it's like, well, Dean was a child, also. And I'm sure that adds even more complexity on how Sam specifically thinks of his situation.

C: Did Dean cause him hurt when they were both children?

G: No, I just mean like, they have, like, a messed up dynamic and I feel like if you have a parent you have a messed up dynamic with, you're able to be like. “Well, they were an adult, and they should have known better than to be a person who tries to be best friends with their kid who they're also raising, and now, I don't know, like, etc etc. They're finding it difficult for me to go to college or whatever." [laughs] But like, with Dean, it's like, Dean was also a kid.

C: I mean, Dean was 22 by that point, but yeah. [laughs]

G: My point is like, the development. [C: Okay.] Like, yeah, he was 22 at the time, but like, [C: The development of the dynamic that led to that.] the dynamic started when they were kids, etc. It's like, when you're an adult parent, you have the benefit of [laughs] not being a kid when those dynamics start.

C: Yeah. Dean asks Sam if this is really what he wants, and Sam says that "I let him out. I've got to put him back in." And Dean goes like, "Okay, that's it, then." So like, it's like, a personal responsibility/guilt thing, I suppose, is how they're establishing it. So then there's the title card, and there's a scene implies that they've bled out a bunch of demons. Bobby asks if Dean's okay, and Dean says, "No." And they look through some newspapers, and there are a few omens around, but the one that stands out to Dean is a [G: Detroit.] temperature drop in Detroit, which is where Lucifer said that Sam was going to say yes in "The End." So then they start driving there. Cas is asleep in the back seat, and he looks adorbs.

G: Yeah, [laughs] Dean says, "He's so cwute!" [both laugh] [C: Yeah.] And he is, so it's fine. And it is fine even if he's not. I just find it so fascinating that like, [laughs] the way they frame this scene was Dean being like, "Aw!" And Sam going, "Okay, loser."

C: "He's dying, Dean."

G: [laughs] "Maybe have some sensitivity to the fact that he's losing his powers, Dean." [both laugh] [C: Yeah.] Kind of true. Kind of real. I think if Sam listened to our podcast, where every single time Cas goes into heat, we're like, "Aww, Cas!" he would be like, "You guys should kill yourselves or something." Sam wouldn't say that. But maybe he would. Maybe he should, even.

C: They're talking about Detroit. Dean has a bad feeling about it because of the predestiny, and he's also worried that Lucifer knows about the rings. [G: Yeah.] And Sam goes like, "Dean, like, serious talk time. You know I'm not gonna come back after I fall into a big hole." And Dean’s like, “Yeah, I know.” And Sam goes, “Okay. So you have to promise me something.” And Dean's like, “Oh, yeah, of course, anything!” [G laughs] And Sam says, “You have to promise not to try to bring me back.” [G laughs]

G: Dean go, "What?"

C: Dean is shocked.

G: He's shocked and upset that Sam said this.

C: Yeah, which I do like. [G: Yeah.] Sam's like, "I'm not coming back," and he's like, "Yeah yeah yeah, of course I know that." And he's like, "And you're not gonna try to bring me back?" And Dean's like, "What. the fuck. is wrong. with you?"

G: [laughs] Exactly.

C: But yeah, I don't know. It's nice that he had all of this like, turmoil and stuff, and also the entire time, he didn't even consider that like, he wouldn't be trying for the rest of his life to bring Sam back or whatever. [G: Yeah.] He was this upset, and he didn't even think it was gonna last that long, or it would last that long but like, the whole time, he'd be trying to make it not. So yeah, Dean's very upset and saying that he didn't sign up for that because Sam's gonna have such a bad time in Hell.

G: Yeah. Which I did- I think, like, I don't know. The thing about Supernatural is kind of like, it kind of really ignores a lot of like, Dean's Hell situation. Like, he did go to Hell for couple of months- or no, forty years. [laughs] I don't know why I said couple months.

C: It was a couple months on Earth. It was forty years in Hell. You weren't wrong.

G: Yeah, yeah. And so like, yeah, I feel like this is like a- not like a callback to it, but like a thing for Dean to consider that I have forgotten also. That like, yeah, Sam is gonna suffer, and Dean is going to have an acute understanding of that suffering.

C: And Sam has an understanding of like, your brother being dead long-term [G: Yeah.] and sort of having to give up on bringing him back. [G: Yeah. Aw.] So yeah, they're both talking from experiencing what the other is about to go through, and that's nice. That's fun. At least Sam had a trial run. He had “Mystery Spot.” Dean's trial run was just the end of Season 2, and that was like, for two days. Yeah, Sam says that it's too risky to try to get him out of the Cage given that Lucifer will also be in there. He says that Dean has to do it, and that what he should do afterwards [both laugh] is find Lisa, [G: Yeah.] "pray to God she's dumb enough to take you in," and then have a normal life where he goes to barbecues and football games.

G: He makes Dean prommy! [C: Yeah, he does.] You know how like, there are people who are like, gay Dean truthers. [C: Uh-huh.] This is the one concession I will make. Like, I understand why you think that with this whole Lisa situation.

C: Huh. 'Cause it feels like he- 'cause the point is that he didn't go there because he really wanted to?

G: Yeah like, he went there because he's trying to live up to Sam's expectation of a normal American life or whatever, and-

C: He also went there of his own volition against Sam's will in 5.17.

G: Oh yeah, he did say, "Whenever I think of a future, blah blah blah, [both laugh] I think of you guys."

C: Yeah, that was all him, baby.

G: Yeah, maybe Dean is bisexual, as I have always previously believed and continue to believe. Sorry, gay Dean truthers.

C: And maybe he's straight as I have always- [G laughs] I don't actually believe that. [G: Yeah.] This Lisa fixation is- I mean, that's just the writers being like, "That is what is easiest for us to do." Also, I'm sure just knowing that Dean loves Lisa was helpful for Sam as a, you know, "I don't have to think that- I mean, I care about his well-being, but I am glad I get to offload this onto somebody." But also, Bobby is like, there.

G: There was Bobby, in fact. And later, Sam does tell Cas to take care of these two or something. [laughs] [C: Uh-huh.] Incredibly funny.

C: Yeah, he was just trying to cover all of his based. Yeah. Such a good scene. Deanlisa and Cobby endgame for the world.

G: [laughing] He was like- Maybe Sam was like, "Yeah, maybe Dean is gay. [C laughing] So like, just in case, I'm gonna tell Cas to take care of him or something."

C: Yeah, yeah. Cover all the based.

G: Yeah. It is so fun to me that Cobby is just a duo this episode! [C: Yeah.] Like, everything that they do, they do together, and they can't- I mean no, they have this conversation in the car with Cas in the backseat. That's the only exception. Cas didn't ride with Bobby. But later on-

C: Yeah, he rides with Bobby to Stull Cemetery, yeah.

G: Yeah, later on, they're together. And then like, when Dean calls Chuck, Bobby and Cas were like, hanging out. And then when Dean is like, "I'm gonna go!" they go from some side of the road towards Dean, and they're together! It's so cute. Cobby is real.

C: Yeah, it is cute. I do feel a bit Rufus-baited, though. I thought he was at least gonna be in the montage at the end just because [G: Yeah, we have Rufus this season.] we have Bobby on the phone multiple times this season, and he goes, "And by the way, I'm on the phone with my best friend Rufus!" so I don't know. It seems like he should have shown up in the montage at the end, but he did not.

G: The scenes are incredibly short. I didn't notice. I'm only feeling it now. We don't really- it makes sense because they're trying to culminate to a long scene, so. [C: Yeah.] They are now like, in the place where Sam is bound to say yes. Is that true? Is Detroit in Chicago?

C: In Detroit. No, I think the transcript is wrong. Detroit is in Michigan.

G: That's so weird. I always thought it was in Chicago too for some reason. Maybe this transcriber is Filipino. Shout-out! They're in there. They're standing in front of the building. And they're like, "Wow, this is it." And the first goodbye is between Sam and Bobby, where Bobby says, “I'll see you around, kid.” [both laugh] And Sam's like, "Okay, well, whatever." [laughs] And Bobby goes, “You fight him tooth and nail, okay? Like, keep swinging. Don't give an inch." And Sam says, “Yes, sir,” and I was like-

C: Fascinating.

G: My first thought honestly was like, "John is more of a father to Sam than Bobby is!" [laughs] [C: For real.] Like, Bobby doesn't deserve to be called the "yes, sir" because that's for his father that he has a terrible relationship with, [C laughing] and Bobby is not his father, and the relationship is bad, so it doesn't count.

C: For fucking real. I also felt this way.

G: [laughs] That's literally not your father.

C: Later, when Lucifer is like, “I'm your real family,” [laughs] I think I also started laughing. [G laughs]

G: He's like, "I'm like a father to you."

C: I don't know. Supernatural will just throw the word "family" around. Like, it means nothing. [laughs] Yeah, Lucifer's more of a fathers to Sam than Bobby.

G: It is actually impressive how much Bobby like, kind of DGAF about Sam. [C laughs] Like, what started out as a joke has become the reality of the situation, and that's his coworker.

C: Yeah, I mean, okay, I guess you could just view him as carrying himself- Like, maybe last episode, he was like, “I'm just respecting Sam's wishes to jump into that big hole. So that's why I'm having this talk with Dean, and I'm like, I do care that he's gonna die [G: Yeah.], but, yeah, I'm gonna put that aside to respect his plan [G: Yeah.] and his competence or whatever," but also, [laughs] like, does he care?

G: I think there is also the aspect of we can view it as he was talking to Dean in that scene. So we're not really supposed to see it as like, Bobby's perspective. We're supposed to see it as Bobby trying to convince Dean, which is of course different, so.

C: Yeah, but I think it says something that he thinks that Dean-

G: This is how Dean is gonna be convinced, yeah.

C: Yeah, that once he realizes that he's just doing this because he's afraid of losing Sam, he'll change his mind. Which I guess he did, so.

G: Yeah. I mean, me defending Bobby and saying that he actually does love Sam as a son is like- You know when you're in a debate team, and they put you in the homophobic side, [both laughing] so you have to fight for homophobia or whatever? That's how I feel defending Bobby. It feels like I'm defending homophobia. I think he doesn't love Sam at all. Well, whatever. [C laughing]

C: I think he does a little bit. I think he just doesn't care that much, or if he cared about Sam, he would care about him more in a "how does this affect Dean?" way before he thinks about how it affects Sam. [G: Yeah.] Which is the whole show also, so.

G: I mean, I think at some point Bobby tells Dean like, "You're my favorite." Or maybe I invented it in my head. Anyway, it's implied in the entirety of the show, [laughs] so we know it.

C: Yeah, he doesn't need to say it for us to know that it's true. [G: Exactly.] Bobby's a little teary as they hug, though. That's something.

G: It's true, it's true. And Sam does his next goodbye to Cas. [C: Ah!} And he goes, Sam goes, "Take care of these guys, okay?" And Cas, very solemnly, with his beautiful frowny face, goes, "That's not possible." [both laughing] Sam was like, a little taken aback. He's like, "Oh." And then he goes, "Humor me." And Cas goes, “Oh, I was supposed to lie. Oh, okay!” [C laughs] And then he puts on his most corny, tired, and played-out smile-

C: Yeah, he twists his mouth just to one side.

G: Yeah. And he goes, "Sure... Like, they'll be fine." [both laugh] And Sam literally tells him to shut the fuck up, which is kind of real of him.

C: Yeah, he's smiling, though. It's a nice moment.

G: It cheered him up, yeah.

C: Yeah. And they didn't even shake hands! Sam held out his hand for a handshake. He wanted a 4.07 callback, but Cas didn't even do it!

G: Cas didn't even grab Sam's hand with both of his hands, which is the most important thing. [C: True.] I do find it fascinating that Cas is like, barely a character this episode. [C: Yeah.] He's not even around. Yeah. And I don't know. I think it is fascinating that we end the show- and I mean, the thing is like, at this point, Cas is just some other guy in the show still. And like, you know, as I've said a million times in the past, later on in the show, he's going to be a lot more of a presence, and he's going to be- like, when he's in an episode, he's like, Mr. B Plot or Mr. A Plot, like, it's the entire episode, versus in Season 4 and 5, where he just shows up for short increments, and it’s quite irregular and stuff. And so I get it. I get that he's not that big of a deal yet this season, so like, he's not gonna be such a huge presence in the finale. I think what I want to say is that I am a little bit impressed that they have him here if that's the case. I don't know. I think I find it fascinating that he has been elevated to Bobby status so quickly. Yeah. That's it, really.

C: It'd be weird if he wasn't here.

G: Why would it be weird?

C: We've just been fairly involved in the whole Apocalypse fight thing.

G: Yeah, and they are- I think with him and Dean, they are trying to do kind of a foil situation with what happens to them at the end. [C: Mm.] Is that true? You know, I don't actually know what foil means.

C: Like, they're like opposites or like, contrasts in-

G: Yeah, okay, well, they are. And you know, Cas got everything that he wanted and he got everything back versus Dean, who lost everything. They were trying to do something with that. And when he was like, “Do you want peace or freedom?” that was something, too. [C: Yeah.] So like, yeah, you're right. There is like, a point, a storytelling point to Cas's presence. Love him! [C: Yeah.] We're gonna go to Season 6, and we're gonna be kind of miserable, but that's gonna be true for the rest of the show. [laughs] [C: Yeah.] And most of the show before, so I don't know.

C: So finally, it's down to Sam and Dean. So he goes over to the jugs of demon blood, and he asks Dean, "You mind not watching this?" And Dean walks away, and we the viewers also don't watch this 'cause it cuts to when he's done. [G: Yeah.] Can you believe in Season 4, Cas was like, “If Sam drinks too much demon blood, he'll become a monster and a killing machine!" and he literally chugs four jugs right now, and like-

G: He's normal, yeah.

C: He's normo. Like, he seems a bit more focused than usual. That's about it.

G: Yeah. I mean, also, like, I think he was just focusing on not vomiting at up, honestly. [C: Yeah, honestly.] What is the digestion timeline of demon blood?

C: Yeah no, I don't think you can- Yeah, how could he have drank that much without having to piss in between?

G: I mean later, when Lucifer's like, “No, I actually know what's happening,” and Sam makes that distressed face, and he's like, “I don't know what you're talking about!” he was actually trying not to vomit. That's why he was making that face. [C: For real.] Four gallons, though. At least. Concerning.

C: Concering. So yeah, Sam says, "Let's go," and Dean go into a building while Cobby are outside watching. So Sam shouts for the demons to come get them. They get taken upstairs where Lucifer is. We got another Chuck voiceover where he talks about Sam and Dean’s history with the Impala. There's a little army man figurine that Sam put in the ashtray. [G: In the back, yeah.] There are Legos that Dean shoved into the vents, and you can still hear them rattle when they turn the heat on in the car. And he says that even when Dean rebuilt the Impala, he made sure all those things were still there. I don't know how that's possible, but okay.

G: I also- I'm not sure how it's possible, but I find the idea endearing.

C: Yeah, maybe he had to go out and buy new Legos to cram in.

G: For real. And a new toy soldier that's not actually the toy soldier Sam used. He just had bad memory as a child.

C: Yeah. And he said that it was the blemishes that made the Impala beautiful. And then he says, "The devil doesn't know or care what kind of car the boys drive."

G: We go to Lucifer, and he does this thing where they're inside a room and it's like, it looks like it's freezing because there's condensation in the window, and then he like- I mean, when he breathes on the thing, there's like, something. And then he draws on the window. What Greek letter is this? It's psi?

C: I should know this.

G: Let's see. "Trident Greek letter." [typing]

C: I don't know if it is a Greek letter, you can like, style a phi-

G: It is. [C: Really? Let me check.] The Greek letter psi, the shape of a trident or pitchfork.

C: Oh, yeah. Yeah, no, you're right.

G: He could just be- Ah! Maybe he's just [both] drawing a pitchfork.

C: Because he's the devil.

G: [laughing] Because he's the fucking devil! [C: Yeah.] I was actually trying to figure out, what does psi mean? What is this? Because I was thinking he could draw the omega symbol so it could be like, the end, you know? But he's not gonna draw the omega symbol, and I feel like I would know if he drew the omega symbol, [laughs] honestly.

C: Yeah, I think people would be talking about this.

G: Yeah. Anyway, he's like, “Oh, yeah, it's cold. Sorry. Most people think I burn hot. It's actually quite the opposite,” which, you know, I think I've heard people talk about this as like, "Wow, so cool." I think it's whatever. [laughs]

C: I think I've heard that in the context of like, "The Cage must have been very, very cold," and I do think it's interesting to think about the psychological impact of just freezing and freezing for 200 years.

G: Yeah. Lucifer, his face is falling apart. He doesn't look- when was the last time we saw him, actually? [C: Um...] Was it really in “Abandon All Hope”?

C: I don't think so. Let me- He was in “Hammer of the Gods.” [laughs]

G: Oh my god, you're right!

C: Remember "Hammer of the Gods"? [both laugh] I try not to.

G: I try also not to. Was he already- did he already have, like, sores on his face at that time? [C: Yeah.] He did?

C: Yeah, I think he had them in "Abandon All Hope," too, [G: Really?] because he was like, "Sam, this isn't my true vessel. So that's why this is happening."

G: Ah, okay. Well, I think maybe they did a little bit more of it this episode or something.

C: Yeah, I think so.

G: Sam immediately is like, "I'm going to say yes." And then Lucifer is like, “Oh, excuse me?” And then Sam closes his eyes and squints a little bit, and then the two demons beside them, they like, explode. [C laughs]

C: By little light effects.

G: Yeah, they explode with light. They don't explode bloody like Cas later. Their head blows up like a bulb.

C: Yeah, but not in any way where [G: - it's cool, yeah.] any parts of it go anywhere. There's just a little light that explodes over their head, [G: Yeah.] and then they fall down intact.

G: Yeah. But yeah, and this person's like, "Damn, okay. You're for real, for real." And Sam says, "Okay, we understand. We just want the deal of the century. I give you a free ride. You keep me safe. You keep Dean safe. You bring back our parents." [C laughs] Hilarious. So fucking true.

C: So, okay, the implication is- Okay. So Lucifer ends the entire world. The earth is empty and burned to a crust, and then it's Sam, Dean, Mary, and John just standing there?

G: They don't end the world. Like, that's not the intention of the fight.

C: True, it'll just- things will- well, but also like, if Lucifer wins, all the demons are gonna come up onto Earth to hang out and presumably kill everybody.

G: Yeah, but like, Lucifer also hates the demons, so like-

C: That's true, that's true. So that's not actually part of his plan. He's going to kill all the demons, as Crowley thinks. [G: Yeah.] So like, what is the aftermath?

G: I have no idea. And I mean, obviously, Sam's bluffing, so it's not like this is something he put a lot of thought into, perhaps. [C: Yeah.] But Lucifer immediately is like, "Okay, can we drop the act? I know that you have the rings." And Sam is like, "Oh, no, I'm gonna frow up!" Like, he looks so distressed, and he puts on his most like, "Oh, no! I'm going to pretend I'm not upset, but I'm so upset it's unreal!" voice, and he goes, "I have no idea what you're talking about!" [both laugh] And I understand that he's like, having the worst day of his life, [C: Yeah.] but yeah, maybe Sam should enter acting school or something. [C: Yeah, he should take a workshop.] Not because he's good, but because specifically because he's bad. Lucifer's like, "No, yeah, I know everything that's happening. It's pretty fun. Like, battle in your head. If you win, then you win. If I win, then I win. Let's do it!" And Sam is like, "Yeah, we don't really have a choice. No matter what, even if he knows, we can't do anything else." So he says yes, and there is a bright light that like, emanates from Lucifer, and then we cut to Bobby and Cas hanging out outside, and they see the light like, bursting out the window, which I thought was pretty cool. And yeah, back in the room, Dean is still there, and Sam is collapsed on the floor. And Dean tries to wake him or something, and then he also opens the portal. And, oh my god, there's a chant. That's what Death was talking about. [C: Yeah.] I thought Death just thought Dean was so stupid.

C: Didn't know how magnets worked. [laughs] Yeah.

G: Yeah. [laughs] But apparently, there's a fucking thing that they need to say. Sorry for insulting literally everyone last episode. [both laugh] Yeah. Dean throws it to the wall, and he does his chant, and then there's a hole in the wall just like the show. The variety show.

C: It's fun that the Cage doesn't actually go into.the ground.

G: Go down, yeah.

C: Like, yeah, like, that hole is completely just through a bunch of walls and then out into the air or some shit.

G: Sam kind of wakes up, and it's like, "Oh, it's Sam!" and he's like, "Oh, I can feel him! Okay, I need to jump now, because it's like, our only chance!" And then he goes to the portal, and he hesitates a little bit, and then he like, smirks. And then, you know, we realize that it's actually Lucifer! He turns around and tells Dean, like, "I'm actually Lucifer!" Then he gets the fucking Horsemen rings, and then he disappears, but for some reason, Dean has the rings later. No, Sam has! [C: No, Sam has.] He gets it from his pocket. You're right. And by "you're right," I mean me. [C laughs] Lucifer tells Dean, "I told you it was always gonna happen in Detroit, and it did." That is a fun thing. Lucifer disappears, and Dean's there. And yeah, Lucifer spares Dean, which he makes a point of mentioning to Sam later.

C: Right. We're over to Sam and Lucifer, and they're in like, some dark building, and there's some demons. They're standing in a circle. And Lucifer has a little monologue time or a dialogue time where he's looking in a mirror, and he's talking to Sam, but he also allows Sam to communicate. Yeah, so there's a mirror, and it's kind of broken, and in the mirror, it's Sam with his dialogue and expressions and things, and then, when we cut to the non-mirror view, then that's Lucifer, yeah.

G: Yeah. What do you think of this scene? I thought it was- I mean, obviously they had to do something to get Sam and Lucifer to talk. [C: Yeah.] [laughs] So we take what we can get, is how I feel about this scene. [laughs]

C: Yeah, I think it's fine. [G: Yeah.] Yeah, I don't know what else they would have done.

G: Yeah, that's how I feel too. I think it's a little bit corny, but like, whatever. It's what they ought to do.

C: Yeah. What's your assessment of Jared Padalecki's acting as Lucifer abilities?

G: I think it's fine. [C: He is fine.] I think in the Stull Cemetery scene, it's great. I think in these scenes, it's a little bit less good, but it could also just be that I have seen the Stull Cemetery scene so many times, so like, I just know- you know, I'm just more familiar with it or something.

C: Which part of the Stull Cemetery scene?

G: Like, the entire scene.

C: But like, including the conversation with Michael at the beginning?

G: Yeah. No, no, actually, the conversation with Michael was kind of stupid. I think I didn't really think about Lucifer's acting at that scene because all I could think of was like, "Wow! This conversation is so stupid!"

C: Yeah, you're like, "Look at these two fuckass guys in the middle of fuckass nowhere, [G laughs] and they're in the most fuckass guy outfits ever." [G laughs]

G: Yeah. The thing about it is like, I think they were trying to do like, "An apocalypse just looks like a normal day" or whatever. [C: Yeah, the mundanity of whatever.] The mundanity of it all. And it kind of works. It also is just kind of funny. [both laugh]

C: Yeah, like, they are so powerful, but it was just a dude running at a dude, and then the other dude running at a hole. [both laugh]

G: I think it's not the mundanity of the what it looks like, actually. I think it's just that their heart is not even into it. [C laughs]

C: Yeah, I don't think Jake Abel could actually convey the like, magnitude or gravity of like, having Michael in him.

G: And then also just like, the whole like, "Oh, I don't really want to do this, [C laughing] but I have to." And it's like, "Noo, but we have to!"

C: "I have to because of my daddy."

G: "I also don't want to do this, and you don't have to do it." And you know, it's like, you're going to fucking destroy the earth, and you don't even give a fuck. Like, your heart's not even into it.

C: Yeah. You've been doing a lot of stuff to lead up to this point, Lucifer. [G: Yeah.] Like, if you didn't want to do the fight, you could have also just not done the rest of it. [laughs]

G: Like, you know, like, I think so much of it is they're just dragging their feet. They're like, "Ugh, fine! We have to fight. Whatever." And it's like, you know. [laughs] It's like Staged Season 3? [both laugh] Should we mention that? But like, in Staged Season 3, how like, the entire show is about how they don't want to do the show anymore. That's what like, this Michael and Lucifer conversation sounds like.

C: There's a scene. Lucifer's thing is that he smirks, and Sam's thing is that he's upset. So he tells Sam that he's not the bad guy here, and Sam's like, "I'm gonna fucking kill you!" And Lucifer's like, "Who are you actually angry with? Me? Or yourself?" [laughing]

G: They're always trying to do this shit. [laughs] Like, what is this bullshit? "Are you actually mad at me?"

C: I feel like he's angry at Lucifer because of how he killed a bunch of people. [laughs] That's how I feel. [G laughs]

G: So real. "Are you mad at me, or are you mad at yourself because you can't stop me?" Like, I'm mad at you. [laughing] Like, what are you talking about?

C: "Dean, who really started the Apocalypse? Sam, who was completely led astray, or you, who didn't stop him?" [G laughs] [G: So true!] Supernatural said, "Inaction is action," and that part is true. Thank you, Supernatural, for these valuable life lessons. Yeah, also, Lucifer makes a Star Wars reference where he calls Sam "young Skywalker." And I don't know. It's whatever. Many people have said that it's annoying how much demons and angels reference pop culture throughout the rest of the show, and it fucking is. Like, why did you decide all of them talk like Dean Winchester?

G: I mean, it's the reason why Cas stands out, obviously, but also like, I thought what you were gonna say is that like, Supernatural is inspired by [both] Star Wars.

C: That's true. He did say that.

G: [laughing] Did you say "Star War"? Kind of true. Kind of real.

C: No. I think I said Star Wars. But I was about to say a sentence that had "Star War" in it, so maybe you just sensed that.

G: Yeah, what was the sentence?

C: "I've only watched like, five minutes of a Star War, and that's my entire experience with that franchise." [G: Yeah.] So I can't tell how much inspo was actually taken. I'm a little bit more okay with Lucifer making pop culture references because I feel like his thing is that he's like, just childish and annoying in like, a very mundane way. Like, I feel like the pitchfork on the condensed glass was also part of that. Yeah, he's doing a bunch of horrible things to people, and he doesn't really care, 'cause he's just having like, a very fun kids' show time in his head about it, yeah.

G: Childish understanding. So you think that's like, negative or positive? I missed-

C: No, I think that's an interesting way to do it. [G: Ah, okay.] That's why I'm more okay with her making references to like, pop culture, especially like, [G: Yeah.] pop culture that's [laughs] not very deep or whatever.

G: You know, later in Supernatural, at some point, that's how he tries to get Jack on his side. Like, he tells him, "We can go to the stars, like in Star Wars," and then he does like, a lightsaber motion.

C: Okay, that's a little bit annoying, honestly. [laughs] I'm imagining it, and it seems annoying.

G: No, I think it's Jack who brings it up. He's like, "Wait. Like in Star Wars?" [both laughing] And he's real for that. [C: Aw, yeah.] If you tell me to go to the US, I'll be like, "Wait. Just like in Supernatural?" and I'd go.

C: Yeah. You would want to go to a place that was like in Supernatural? [G laughs]

G: I just- I'm interested in the culture. You know how people are like, "I want to go to India because like-"

C: By people, you mean a very specific Robert Sean Leonard? [both laugh]

G: Does Robert Sean Leonard- what did he say? I'm gonna look up ideas for that. I always thought that was hilarious. But he was like, "Yeah, I want to go to India. I've been recently interested in the culture."

C: [laughs] "I've been really interested in the culture recently."

G: Yeah. And that's how I feel about the United States. [C: Yeah.] I'm really interested in the culture, and I don't want to do that city shit. I want to go to the fucking Wisconsins of the world.

C: [laughs] Yeah. I think they have good cheeses in Wisconsin.

G: Oh, he says, "I've been reading up a lot about it. It seems interesting." [C screams]

C: You know, it's more than the writers of "Hammer of the Gods" ever thought to do. [both laughing]

G: Yeah. I don't think any writer from "Hammer of the Gods" ever opened up a book about India.

C: But yeah, but I guess apparently Sam is meant to be just angry at himself or whatever. Which is fine.

C: I do think that it is fascinating- like, how they conclude this scene. Okay, let's go through the scene.

C: Okay, so the rest of the scene, he's been waiting for Sam a long time, and he tells Sam that he has to admit that he can feel exhilaration while he's being possessed because the two of them were made for each other. And he says, like, Sam always felt odd and out of place in his family. It's just 'cause he's gay, man.

G: Yeah, just like Luke Skywalker. No, Luke Skywalker is like, an orphan, I think. [laughs]

C: Well, he's also gay. I thought you were just talking about the gay part.

G: Yeah, his Chanel boots and everything.

C: He says, "Why shouldn't you have? They were foster care at best. I'm your real family." And Sam goes, "No! That's not true!"

G: "I'm your reaw famiwy." [both laugh] Yeah, I mean, I feel the thing is like, with Sam and Lucifer, it could be interesting, this whole thing, whatever. It's also just not handled well at all.

C: If they talked more before this.

G: Yeah. Like, they don't do much with it, and etc. And that's a bummer, because it's a theme that they keep on trying to harken back to like in the future. They will keep on doing this shit where Lucifer is like, "No, you're secretly grateful for me," or like, "No, you feel secretly connected to me" or whatever. And as the audience, you're supposed to think, "Is that true?" or something. I don't know. I didn't really think much of it until, you know, people started talking about it. So I don't know. Maybe I will think it in the future.

C: And he says that, "All those times you ran away, you weren't running from them. You were running towards me.” That's kind of a fun line.

G: Horrible!

C: No? What? [G: I mean, it's horrible-] It's horrible feelings-wise, which makes it a good line. [G: Yeah.] And then he says, “But I'll be good. I spared Dean. I'll bring your parents back. I want you to be happy.” And yeah, I think he does do well with the creep factor in this particular exchange. I don't know. The Sam and Lucifer relationship will continue throughout, and there's like, a rape element that becomes more and more explicit throughout the show as well, right? [G: Yeah.] Yeah. And I think that is a natural follow-up from all of this like, "I know what you want, admit it, blah blah blah." [G: Yeah.] Yeah, and also just the whole possession being sexual assault thing that they've established since Season 1 or 2. I don't know. I feel like we have all these scenes where it's like, "Sam, like, you know, deep down inside, there's something wrong with you, and like, you belong with Lucifer and demonkind and all that stuff." And I think the only place where we actually saw that in a way that felt like, Sam-driven instead of other people saying stuff and you're just supposed to go like, "That is how he really feels!" is “When the Levee Breaks.” And I don't- was that- He talks about feeling wrong the whole time when he was a kid, but I feel like the element of like, "And you feel right and whole with Lucifer, with demon blood," I don't think that was really-

G: Explored, yeah.

C: - explored in 4.21, and I feel like it needed to be in order for me to believe that part of Sam feels that Lucifer is his weal famiwy.

G: Yeah. And I think I think an interesting thing that Lucifer does is he- it's raining so hard, so I'm probably gonna have a hard time ending this part. [C: Aw, horrid.] But like, there's something interesting Lucifer does is he starts with the big things, and then he gets it smaller and smaller and smaller until it's true, and then he's like, "Ah, since that's true, the entire thing is true. Oh, you feel you were running towards me, and like, I make you whole, and I'm actually your true family, etc." And then, like, Sam says, “I don't want anything from you.” And then Lucifer is like, "Really? Not even a little bit?" And then later, when Sam kills all of the demons who are in his life, we are, I think, to believe that Sam feels kind of good about it. [C: Yeah.] And then, so now, Lucifer has established that this is something Sam did like, or did enjoy, and then now, it gets into Sam's head that like, "Wait. So all are all of those bigger things true?" when those things are like, not related, you know? [C: Right.] But because Lucifer connects them, that's like, where the whole manipulation thing comes in. I think it's like, really interesting, honestly. Like, I really think it's really interesting. Like, the way this conversation plays out where he he just goes from big thing to small thing and how like, that manifests into Sam- I don't know. It's a complicated- I think because this is one of the things that's Supernatural actually does deal with with complexity, I think for ways that I do not agree with, for reasons I do not agree with, but they do deal with it with some complexity. Like, the whole Lucifer and Sam situation. And so it is something that I feel like an extra something of care when talking about. Because like, a lot of the time, a lot of the other dynamics in Supernatural are pretty straightforward. [C: Right.] Versus this one where the things that Lucifer is doing are like, I think actual things that actual people in the world do or experience, and so it feels a lot more difficult to talk about. You know what I mean? [C: Yeah.] Yeah. So I don't know. I think I have kind of shared this kind of sentiment in the past. But how the Lucifer and Sam relationship plays out like in Season 7 in the visions that Sam has of Lucifer, and also in Season 13, those conversations are not really things I am incredibly excited to do [laughs] just because I feel like this is something that does need a lot more complexity of thought about things that are sensitive topics.

C: Right. He also describes the feeling that Sam feels as exhilaration [G: Yeah.], which I think is a good choice for manipulation because, like, all of exhilaration is like, you know, like, [G: Nervousness.] high heartbeat, nervousness, and it's very easy to say that someone's upset- [G: Mistake-] to say that it's exhilaration. [G: Yeah. Yeah.] And especially after killing a bunch of people that you kinda are angry at, that is probably something that you could think of yourself as feeling.

G: Yeah. I mean, Supernatural, honestly, yeah, they do do this. They provide Lucifer and Sam a interesting dynamic. I just don't think they like- just because Sam's characterization is always on the like, [laughs] like, they're always doing a terrible job at it, you know? And so I just- I don't know. I think I feel a little bit more dubious about what Supernatural is trying to actually tell us with scenes like this, just because historically, they have had- they have not had a good rapport with Sam's character. And that that is a little bit frustrating to me. It's a lot frustrating, honestly.

C: Yeah. So Sam says, "I don't want anything from you." And Lucifer goes, "Really? Not even a little payback?" And all the demons who are there, Sam starts to recognize them as people who have been throughout his life. There's like, an elementary school teacher. There's [G: Some guy.] his friend Doug, his prom date Rachel.

G: And it is kind of wild to me that, like, Rachel is in a gown. Like, everyone's-

C: Yeah, in a white gown.

G: [laughing] Rachel is in a white gown. You're in prom? A white gown? [C laughs]

C: Yeah, wait, is this meant to be her the prom outfit that she was in?

G: I think that is supposed to be the implication, that it's like a prom outfit. I think it's still stupid. I don't think that should be her outfit now as a demon who's walking around. But yeah, I think the implication is that is her prom outfit, in which case, terrible prom outfit. A white dress? I didn't go to prom. So maybe that's actually a wonderful dress.

C: I'm trying to remember what other people who went to prom have worn. I think some people do wear white. Yeah, he says, "Sam Winchester, this is your life," and that Azazel's gang has just been here the whole time manipulating him the whole time. "I know how you feel about them. Me too. What do you say you and I blow off a little steam?" Okay, wait, so he hates them because he just hates demons in general?

G: Yeah? No, no, no, I think it's because, you know, they're like, manipulating him and stuff.

C: No, I mean, Lucifer hates them. Like, when he says, "Me too."

G: Ah. Yeah, I suppose so. I think he does.

C: Okay, yeah. 'Cause I feel like he was maybe trying to frame it in like a "How dare they manipulate you since you were young. We hate them for the same reason."

G: "I'm the only one who can manipulate you!" [laughs]

C: Exactly, "Even though I told Azazel to go up and manipulate you!" I think he just hates them because he hates demons, but I think that he is trying to frame it to Sam like, "And because I want you to be happy and I'm trying to protect you or whatever, don't think too hard about why they were following you in the first place."

G: Dean, Cas, and Bobby are outside a like, TV store or whatever, and they're watching the television, just like, in Tian Mi Mi, or the movie Comrades: Almost Lovers, a beautiful movie. Go watch it. It's featuring Maggie Cheung, the most beautiful woman of all time. Cas is like, "Yeah, we're fucked. I don't know what to tell you." [both laugh] Dean is like, "What are we gonna do?" And he's like, "Let's just drink a fuckton and die."

C: Wait, [laughing] you missed when Cas says, "It's starting," and Dean says, "Yeah, you think, genius?" and [both] Cas goes, "You don't have to be mean!" [both laughing]

G: Yeah, he like, turns around a bit. He like, he moves his body away from Dean, he moves his head away.

C: [laughing] Yeah, it's so cute!

G: "You don't have to be mean!" So true. [C: It's so fun! Yeah.] After his alcohol comment line, Dean says, "Okay, Bukowski." And I think because of this this line, I tried to read a Charles Bukowski book. [C: Wow!] Yeah, I didn't make it. I don't think it's for me. [laughs]

C: I haven't read any Bukowski, so maybe it's for me, or maybe it's not for me.

G: Yeah, I think I don't like books that are... misogynistic. [both laughing] I mean, I don't even remember which Bukowski-

C: What a weirdo! You don't like books that are misogynistic?

G: No, but like, I feel like there are limits. Because, for example, I read a lot of Kurt Vonnegut, [C: Yes, I was about to bring that up.] and I think Kurt Vonnegut has a lot of misogyny in his books. I think because with Kurt Vonnegut, if you read his books one at a time, I think there is a- it becomes more swallowable. It's more palatable. Like, you can go like, "Well, that sucks that this is how women are written," but you can still turn the page, right? I think there are other authors where that's quite impossible to do. And I'm not sure if Bukowski is one of them, but there was a time in my life where every time I read a misogynist, I was like, "Let's not do this. I don't want to do this." Yeah. And also like, with Kurt Vonnegut, I think the reason why I have a very, very, very, very strong aversion to his other books other than the ones I read is because I just read the ones I read in sequence, so like, you know, all the misogyny is like- it's like, so obvious the patterns of it. So yeah.

C: I just skimmed a Charles Bukowski poem, and it was decent. So maybe. It also felt a little misogynistic, though. [laughs] But yeah, I don't know if Dean was referring to his books or his short stories or his poetry.

G: I mean, what are the- I think we we should have started doing a book recommendations in Supernatural, like, let's just keep a list. I think that would be a fun thing to do. Books mentioned in Supernatural. Books that are referenced in Supernatural. And for me, the number one is, of course, the Vonneguts, just because I am actually a fan. And then, I don't know. At some point Dean talks about Aesop, and Sam’s like, “Wow, you're a genius!” [laughing]

C: Yeah, Dean's talking about like, The Odyssey, and Sam's like, "Oh my god, what?"

G: At some point, someone calls him a beach read, and he goes, "Beach read? Lady, I'm Tolstoy," but that is also a thing that he says.

C: Oh yeah, I remember that. I'm incredibly annoyed by it.

G: Yeah. I just really hate when Sam and Dean say "lady" as like, a replacement for a name. Like, I think that's incredibly rude. And also, if anyone else says it, I also don't like it. [laughs] It's not just Sam and Dean. [both laugh]

C: Yeah, they should replace it with "ma'am." That would be fun.

G: I liked it when Sylvia Plath says it in one of her poems that starts, "Lady, your room is lousy with flowers," but that's my only exception, just like Paramore. Anyway, Dean calls Cas a slur. [laughs] [C screams] I asked prior to recording, I asked Crystal what the status of "sissy" as a slur is. I think it is a slur.

C: I said that I don't really think it is, but I think-

G: Different environments, different communities, yeah.

C: Yeah, I also- I don't know. I feel like the word slur, I don't always know what it means, because I feel like people use the word slur to mean different things, but yeah.

G: Yeah. Going to do linguistics blah blah blah in this one. But I don't know. I mean, obviously, the way it is used here is derogatory. [C: Yes.] And okay, so the line is, "You listen to me, you junkless sissy. We are not giving up." I think the combination of those words, "junkless" [C: Yes.] is like, obviously, it's trying to do something with regards to like, "You're unmasculine." [C: Mm-hm.] Yeah, I just- I don't know. Two episodes ago, we talk about how they say "fag" in Supernatural, but it's all obviously not used as a slur in the show. [C: Yes.] Like, the author maybe was like, "Haha!" Tongue-in-cheek, "Hehehe, we said it." But like, in the context of the show, if this was just a conversation that happened in front of me, I'd be like, "Yeah, that's not a slut." But here, like, it's so very obviously said with vitriol.

C: Derision, yeah.

G: Yeah. So, horrible! It did perk me up. I was like, "Oh, okay." [laughs] I think "perk me up" is not the word. [both laugh]

C: Yeah, I don't think it made your dick hard.

G: No, you know, like, my head was down. It rose up, so yeah. [laughs] Did you say "it made your dick hard"?

C: Yeah. [laughs] It perked you up. It made your dick hard.

G: [laughs] Is that what "perk you up" means?

C: It can mean "cheered up," but I think sometimes people also mean arousal when they talk about it. But yeah, I think "sissy" is often a term applied to gay men and trans women, and I think that the "junkless" aspect of it like, definitely touches on the latter some more.

G: Yeah. And again, I don't know. No, I mean, like, because of the way we talk about "fag" for example, it's like, it is a slur, but like, you know, it's used lovingly in many communities. And like, yeah, I don't know. Maybe that's true for this also, but doesn't make it not a slur, you know?

C: Yeah, yeah, I've heard some people self-identify using "sissy."

G: Yeah. Anyway, all of that. [laughs] [C: Yeah.] I was just surprised. And this is like, this episode was in 2010, so I think we also need to keep that context in mind, maybe? I don't know.

C: Maybe? I don't know what was acceptable to say.

G: I don't know the etymology of etc, yeah.

C: Yeah. I'm gonna check if this is the first time this word was used in Supernatural. Dean said it in 2.11.

G: Really? How?

G: He uses it as an adjective. He says that old school haunted houses have "fog, secret passageways, and sissy British accents." [G: Interesting.] [laughs] Interesting, yeah. I can see why that would pass us by, though. Like, I feel like it's not used as vitriolically as it is here.

G: Yeah. Well, I mean, [laughs] I think everything is a slut if you say it harshly enough. But also, that's not true. But like, this one. It's true for this one.

C: I think this one, because it has a history of being used to mock queer people.

G: Yeah. So Dean asks Bobby like, "Bobby, do you have any ideas?" And Bobby just goes, "Nope. We're going to fucking die!" And then we go back to Lucifer and Sam, and now there's like, multiple dead bodies on the floor.

C: Yeah, they really focus on Rachel because of the red blood stain on the white dress.

G: The red dress, yeah. And it's like, in the middle of her torso, too, and I kind of was like, "Is it in the lower abdomen, just like in every other other woman in Supernatural?" But I don't think it was. I think it was like, higher up in the torso. But yeah, Lucifer asked Sam, like, "Are you having fun yet?" And I think Sam looks guiltily, or something. Anyway, so we have another Chuck voiceover. And he says, like, "In between jobs, Sam and Dean would sometimes get a day, sometimes a week if they're lucky, and they would have just like, you know, free time. And they would use that time to make some money." And he says, like, "Sam used to insist on honest work, but now he hustles pool like his brother."

C: What was the honest work that he did for a day?

G: What jobs was Sam doing? I mean, you can like, do construction work for a day, I think.

C: Yeah, I think factories and shit sometimes will just hire people.

G: Factories, really?

C: Maybe? I don't know. That sounds right, but I don't know.

G: I don't think that's right, yeah. I think you need a rigorous health exam for that.

C: But construction work, you don't need to?

G: I don't know. I mean, I'm Filipino. I don't know about American life. But like, yeah. I mean, you can just show up to a house and be like, "I'm going to build you a cabinet," [laughs] and then you do it. I don't know. "I'm gonna fix your plumbing or something." [laughs]

C: Huh, yeah, perhaps. Maybe Sam was a scab. [G: Yeah, for real.] Maybe every single time he insisted on honest work, it was 'cause-

G: [laughing] It was completely dishonest, yeah. I mean, I think you would need- I think here, the requirements for any job, but also factory job specifically, it's like, you need a police clearance, and you need all of the tax bullshit, and then you need a health examination, including an X-ray, because they're checking that you don't have tuberculosis. [C: Mm.] So yeah, I don't think he can go in for that unless he has those ready. But then again, it's like, one day, come on? How's he even gonna get paid? Is it at the end of the day pay?

C: Cash, I guess?

G: Yeah, but they usually do that at like, the 15th and the 30th, I think.

C: Well, if it's a job position where everyone's expected to only be there for a day.

G: Are you sure that factory work you can do for a day?

C: I don't know if this is true. [G: I find it highly dubious.] I don't think that it's true.

G: What other jobs does Sam do? What is his honest work?

C: I don't know. Did he go around knocking on doors, asking if they wanted their lawn mowed? [both laugh]

G: "Can I mow your lawn?" What if he had a sickle? Maybe he was like, one of those guys who was like, "You don't actually need a lawnmower. You need a sickle."

C: I'm going on the website Labor Works USA, and they have partnerships with various companies that offer same day pay [G: Oh, that's cool!] and temporary work. Yeah. And the industries that they have listed are assembly and manufacturing, which does imply factory work, and then construction and food service - food service makes sense. Like, if someone needs like, an extra hand for catering or something.

G: Yeah, yeah. Oh my god, maybe Sam is a caterer!

C: Yeah, maybe so. Landscaping, machine operations, moving and package handling, packaging, site cleaning and waste removal, warehouse and distribution, and housekeeping and janitorial services. I do think you have to apply to join this like, organization, though, so they probably do vet you at some point. But maybe Sam did join, at some point, [laughs] an org that has partnerships with various temp jobs. Who knows? Yeah. Maybe if you stand outside a restaurant during like, rush hour, you can be like, "Can I come in for a quick shift?"

G: I don't think that's true. I don't think that's true.

C: I'm sure there's like, a lot of restaurants that will just- I'm pretty sure there are restaurants that like, will- if it's just not a very formal system.

G: You work for tips kind of thing? [C: Yeah.] Yeah, okay, I see that.

C: But yeah, I don't know. Anyway who has experience getting one-day jobs, let us know.

G: Maybe he was doing open mics. [C laughs] So true. Go, Sam.

C: Yeah. That's an honest days' work. Yeah, no, like, Dean was hustling pool, and Sam was doing an open mic.

G: In the same bar! [laughs] They were doing it in the same place. Yeah, Chuck says, "They drove a hundred miles for an Ozzie show, two days for a Jayhawks game." I did find these ones very charming. I found them very charming. I think it's so charming. I don't know. What is the Jayhawks?

C: I'm looking it up, and I'm seeing a band, but they said "game"? Oh, it's a Kansas... basketball? Oh, all of the teams from the University of Kansas are called Jayhawks, so it could be any sport.

G: Oh, yeah, that's fun! So they're going back to Kansas. [C: Yeah.] That's so cool! That's pretty cute. Love that.

C: That is cute that they developed some loyalty to the University of Kansas.

G: Yeah. And here I was asking what NBA team Dean supports or whatever, and he has always been a collegiate basketball guy.

C: Oh, and they're located in Lawrence, Kansas, too. So yeah.

G: "When it was clear, they'd park her in the middle of nowhere, sit on the boot, and watch the stars for hours without saying a word. It never occurred to them that sure, maybe they never really had a roof and four walls, but they were never, in fact, homeless." [C laughs] And Chuck's like, "That's really good!" and I'm like, "I don't know, man." [laughs]

C: Yeah, I think the point is that they wrote that, and they were like, "This is kind of bad." And they were like, "Let's just have Chuck lampshade that it's bad." [G laughs]

G: Yeah, anyway, I think this is the first time where we see Chuck actually typing this shit. He's actually quite jolly in disposition, but his phone rings, and he picks it up, and like, he answers it by going, "Mistress Magda?" Yeah, but it's not Mistress Magda. It's Dean. And they like linger on this joke and won't let it go.

C: For so long! [G: Yeah.] Dean just saw Sam like, get possessed by Lucifer and then disappear. [G laughs] And Bobby and Cas have both told him that the world is gonna end.

G: And Dean's like, "Okay, so what's that about?"

C: "Okay. But what's Chuck's relationship status?" It's 'cause he knows that Sam and Chuck were sorta involved, [G: Yeah.] and he's sort of just trying to suss out how badly Chuck is gonna to take the news.

G: Yeah, I think when when Dean was like, “Yeah, Sam said yes,” and Chuck says, “I know,” maybe Dean was like, "What? I thought you guys were in love!" [both laugh] [C: Yeah, exactly.] But maybe they're not anymore.

C: The Mistress Magda thing is 'cause Supernatural has an ongoing joke that Chuck is unmasculine and uncool, so that means he would be sexually submissive. [G: Yeah.] Yeah.

G: I think it's also a part of it is also that he pays for sex work, which Supernatural has always had a weird thing about, yeah. [C: Yeah.] It's a sign of like, lack of-

C: Real men can just get pussy by themselves or whatever, yeah. Though, I mean, in 5.03, I feel like it was treated more neutrally.

G: What's happening in 5.03?

C: The Cas "Free to be You and Me” thing.

G: I'm not sure what you're talking about.

C: With Chastity?

G: Ah, okay, okay. I think I was thinking about "The End." Yeah, I was like, "Where's that in 'The End'?" But you literally said "Free to Be You and Me," and I completely skipped over it.

C: Yeah, I said 5.03 and then I said "Free to Be You and Me," yes.

G: [laughs] Yeah, yeah. Dean is asking like, “Oh, what happened to Becky?” And Chuck's like, “Oh, yeah, it didn't work out. I had too much respect for her.”

C: What does that mean? I think th ejoke is that he wasn't attracted-

G: "If I respected you less, I may be able to stay in a relationship with you more." Like, what? [laughs]

C: I mean, respect has been used in like, “99 Problems” as like, a “Oh, sorry. I'm not actually gonna be attracted to you in front of your dad.” so like, I think that's just like, a euphemism for "I didn't want to fuck her."

G: Yeah, no, I mean definitely, that's what this is for.

C: Yeah, which is, yeah, unfortunate. I still don't understand why that's the language chosen.

G: Yeah, I think the implication here is like, I don't know. "I just didn't like her."

C: But he did, like, very much so in "The Real Ghostbusters."

G: Want to have sex with her?

C: Wasn't he doing his whole pining after her thing the whole episode?

G: I think he was just pining after the idea of like, someone liking him.

C: Why Becky?

G: Who knows? Why anyone, Crystal? [C laughing] [C: Fair.] Well, to answer your question honestly, it's because Becky is already into the show and also into Sam and Dean, and I think Chuck felt a little bit of ownership over those things. Like, "Well, if you like them so much, you should like me." [C: Perhaps so.] Yeah. But why anyone, Crystal? [both laugh] Yeah. And Dean just keeps on pressing. He just keeps on pressing. And Chuck eventually has to go, "Well, I mean, this can't be the reason why you called." [laughs] And I don't know. Dean says, "Yeah, Sam said yes, blah blah blah. Did you see what like, what's gonna happen after?" And Chuck is like, “The angels are keeping it very top secret. But I saw it, anyway, and it's tomorrow, high noon, Stull Cemetery." High noon is like, 12? Is that true?

C: Noon is 12, so I would assume.

G: Yeah. High noon is 12, but you smoke some weed. [laughs] Dean immediately recognizes this Stull Cemetery because it's in Lawrence, and Chuck says, “Well, it has to end where it started, I guess.” Chuck also says that like, there's no way to do all of this unless we have the rings and stuff and that he doesn't know what's gonna happen. But obviously, we know that's not true because he wrote extensively about the car. [C: Yeah. Yep.] Imagine if like, the car lost gas in the middle of the trip, and Dean has to hijack another car, and then he just dies [laughs] [C: It'd be over.], and the world ends, yeah. So fun.

C: So Dean's by the Impala, and Cas and Bobby show up. And Bobby's like, “You have a look on your face that indicates you're gonna do something stupid. Can you just give up, please?” [G: Pwease?] And Dean's like, "No, I need to go talk to Sam because it's Sam!" And Cas is like, “Don't do this. The only thing you're going to see out there is Michael [both] killing your brother." Lot of faith in Michael winning here. [laughs] And Dean says, “Well then, I ain't gonna let him die alone." And you care about this line.

G: Yeah. It matters to me.

C: Yeah. It is, I think, a well-placed line for people to care about.

G: And like, you know, it's the entire thesis of the scene in Stull Cemetery. And like, that's important. That matters to me. [laughs]

C: Now, we're at Stull Cemetery.

G: [laughs] We have the stupidest conversation in all of the earth. [C: Yeah.] Yeah, and maybe even other planets.

C: Yeah. And Lucifer's acting very different during this conversation. Like, he's not doing his whole smirky thing anymore.

G: He's doing like, a kicked puppy vibe.

C: Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like- I think it makes sense, but I think the issue is that it's too similar to Sam that like, I feel like [G: Yeah.] it didn't work as much for me because I need there to be a clearer delineation between the characters.

G: And the thing is, they were trying to do something with like, "Oh, this is how Lucifer is similar to Sam" or something. I don't know, actually, what they're trying to do.

C: Maybe. I think they were maybe trying to do that. But like, I feel like with this TV show format where Jared Padalecki is playing both of them, I feel like the main thought is gonna be, "Is he like, not able to act as a different guy?" Yeah, Lucifer says it's good to see him, and Michael's like, "Yeah, it's good to see you, too. Can't believe it's finally time!" [laughs] And Lucifer's like, "I don't really want to do this." And Michael's like, "Yeah, I don't wanna do this either." [laughing] And Lucifer's like, "So like, why are we doing this?" And Michael says, "I have no choice after what you did." He doesn't even say what he did. [laughs] What did he do?

G: Yeah. I was waiting for that because I was waiting for-

C: Yeah, what did he actually do? He's been doing stuff now, but what did he do back then? He said he refused to bow to humans. That's not doing anything. That's saying a sentence. What did he do?

G: Like, the thing is, what I was waiting for is some sort of explanation of like, what actually occurred. Because like, Lucifer really does have this kind of like, "I'm the underdog. I was the wronged party." Like, every single thing that Lucifer has said this entire season has been like, “But don't you see? I'm actually the sad one!” That's his entire vibe. And so what you would expect to happen here is if they're going to continue to have Lucifer be the bad guy is for that to be like- that idea to be demolished. That like, "No, you just think- you just think you're the victim. But actually, what you did was like, so vitriolic, and you just delude yourself into thinking it's fine." But like, that's like, not the vibe of this conversation at all. [C: Yeah.] Like, this conversation ends, you're like, "I'm kind of on Lucifer's side." [both laugh] Like, what's that about?

C: Yeah. I don't know. It's- yeah. I mean, I don't think we're supposed to be strongly on Michael's side. Like, I think we're supposed to think he's like, a tightwad or whatever. [G: Yeah.] But I just feel like it would be expected that he says what Lucifer did. [laughs] [G: Yeah.] It would be helpful.

G: I think the implication is that he made God angry, but like, who give a fuck?

C: Yeah, yeah, he does- Yeah, that is the- So after "what you did" was "you made our dad mad, and then he walked out on us"? [G: Yeah.] Okay, I guess that's an interesting enough concept to explore. But like, so what did he do that made him angry? [laughs]

G: [overlapping] No, but like, what did he do to God, then?

C: Yeah. [laughs] What'd he do, though?

G: And like, the thing is like, again, if they were trying to do something interesting with Lucifer and Michael, they could have done it. It's just impossible to do now at the last episode of this season, and we don't see Michael again until Season 15, and like, you know what I mean? Like, if they try to develop-

C: Season 15? Well, we see AU Michael earlier, but yeah.

G: Like, if we tried to develop stuff more, like, it would be fine. If we know what Lucifer-

C: Yeah, but the only development is just, "And they're just like Sam and Dean! How? They're brothers!"

G: Yeah, that's what they're trying to do here. They're just trying to have, like, someone who will follow orders and someone who will not. And it's like, "Okay, well, is there more to anything?" [C: Yeah.] And I'm saying the whole thing about how it could have been interesting because it really could have been interesting, you know? You could have had a more complex Lucifer and a more complex Michael, but they just didn't develop it, and now they expect us to care, and like, well, we don't. [both laugh] Also like, I do find it so fascinating that here, it's real that Michael kind of doesn't want to do all of this shit, and I remember at some point in the season, I was like, “Wow, Michael's not really putting in any effort to get to Dean.” [C laughs] I think he was just kind of hoping that nobody says yes. [laughs] [C: Yeah.] He was like, "I don't really GAF. If Dean doesn't want to say yes, who am I to judge him? I also don't want to say yes."

C: Yeah. Zachariah was the only one who cared. [G laughs]

G: Literally, I think Zachariah was- I think maybe what happened is that Michael had a really, really, really enthusiastic subordinate. [C: Yeah.] And he was like, “Man, I can't disappoint this guy. I have to pretend I give a fuck.” [C: Mm-hm.] And the way he was like, “Oh, how I'm gonna show that I give a fuck is to be like, 'If you don't do this. I'm gonna kill you!'” [both laugh] [C: Yeah.] Zachariah's like, "Nooo! He's gonna kill me for real!"

C: He's like, “I really hope he doesn't do it so that I can kill him, and then there's no one who wants to do it.” [G laughs] [G: Literally.] Yeah, Lucifer goes, "What I did? What if it's not my fault?" And he goes, "Think about it. Dad made everything, which means he made me who I am. God wanted the devil." Okay, you will never be “Bug Like An Angel” by Mitski, so move on. Yeah, Lucifer says that he doesn't see the point of them fighting, like, “Is this just one of God's tests? We're brooothers! Let's just not do it!”

G: I mean, the point that they're trying to make here is freedom and choosing your own path, [C: Yeah.] veering off your fate, like F-A-T-E, etc etc. I just find it so fascinating that like, the thing that Cas says later is, "Peace or freedom." And it's like, for here, it's like, if you do one, you do the other, so I don't know.

C: Yeah, if you guys don't fight, then there will be peace because the Apocalypse will stop.

G: Yeah, and you will do it through the power of free will. So I don't know. I think they kind of trip a little bit in this entire conversation. Like, it's just mind-boggling. I don't know what they were trying to do.

C: Yeah. I don't know. Maybe if both of them walk off the chessboard, Lucifer's gonna continue sending storms everywhere or whatever, so it won't be peaceful? [G laughs] Who knows? Michael says that he can't step off because he's a good son, and he has his orders, and he's not gonna rebel like you. And he says that Lucifer always blames other people, and that they were all together and happy as angels, but in-

G: And this is like, a part where I was like, "That could be interesting." Like, Lucifer, is unable to take accountability for anything. And like, I think that that like, applies to how we have seen him prior. Like, he never talks about anything he did as anything that could possibly be wrong. He doesn't, you know, etc. Except here, it just looks like he's right to not blame himself, you know? I don't know. So stupid.

C: Yeah. So what Michael says is that he betrayed them and made God leave, and Lucifer's like, "No one makes him do anything. [G: Lucifer's like, "That's not my problem."] He's doing this to us." And then Michael says, “Let me throw in another Dean parallel. You're a monster, Lucifer, and I have to kill you!” [both laugh]

G: Which is something Dean literally says, right?

C: [laughing] Basically, I think! Well, it was like, "If you weren't my brother, I'd hunt you" or something. And also, I'm sure he says “monster” at some point.

G: Yeah. And he does have to kill Sam at some point in Season 2, yeah.

C: Yeah, all that. And Lucifer's like, "Okay, fine. Let's fight." And then we get, honestly, just a very corny theme.

G: I- shut the fuck up! [laughs]

C: It's a bad song, the car is going slow-

G: The song is bad.

C: And the cut is like- [laughing] I love the way that- Okay, I'll just do. Dean-

G: [laughing] Can I say first- Can I say something first, before you decimate this scene to pieces? [C: Yeah.] I love this scene. [C laughs] I love this bit. I think when Dean put that tape on the deck, I was smiling the entire time, and when he was driving, I was smiling the entire time. And I think a part of it is that it's a bright scene, and I was like, "Wow, we're in daytime! Love the sun!" But also, it's wonderful, I think, the whole vibe of it, of like, yeah, there's some dude- We had just had this really serious, mind-boggling conversation, and now there's this dude with a tape and a terrible song going through there. [C laughs]

C: Yeah. So there's a guy with a tape and a terrible song. His name is Dean Winchester.

G: He's going through here, yeah.

C: And he's going through here, yeah. So he's gotten to the cemetery, I assume, and he's like, "I want a soundtrack. [laughs] I want a diegetic soundtrack. I'm about to witness my brother die, [both laugh] but what I really want to do outside the cemetery is put a tape in with just a song that's bad!"

G: " - is associate a terrible song to his death, and I will never be able to listen to it, which is fine, because it's terrible."

C: - it's so bad, yeah. [laughs]

G: This is why he chose a terrible song. If he chose a good song, he'll be like, "This is a song I can never listen to again!"

C: Yeah, "I've ruined this song forever!" It's "Rock of Ages" by Def Leppard.

G: This is why you should only listen to terrible music when you begin a relationship, by the way. [C laughs]

C: Yeah. That is real.

G: [laughing] Just like me and Will Wood. [C laughs] Except I still listen to him, so.

C: The song begins with like, just a talky part that isn't cool or energizing or anything. [G laughs] [G: Yeah.] And he starts driving incredibly slowly. I myself have had to speed the scene up for AMVs, [both laugh] [G: No!] so I have a special hatred of it. [G: So true.] I just think if you're trying to do a slow and deliberate thing, don't do this song. And if you're trying to do a cool thing, don't have him drive so slow. Also, his dialogue seems to indicate that they're trying to do a cool thing.

G: Ah. I don't know. I think it was- I don't know. I think it was normal.

C: Well, I think it sucked! [laughs] Yeah. So he drives. And it's so nothing. It's like, the wheels going over the bumpy grass incredibly slowly.

G: The wheels in the Impala go round and round.

C: They sure do. And Dean gets out of the car, and he goes. “Howdy, boys. Sorry, am I interrupting something?" Cut to commercial. We come back. Dean is in the car.

G: There's no music. [C laughs]

C: [laughing] He opens the door, and he goes, "Hey! We need to talk." [laughing]

G: And the music is done. They cut through-

C: [laughing] Like, he came out, he was like, "Am I interrupting something?" The song kept going, he was like, "Wait wait wait. Give me a second." [laughs]

G: He was like, "Wow! This song actually does suck for real."

C: [laughing] Yeah, that just has to be what happened. That's what happened in between when there was the cut to commercial. [G: For real.] I just think this is a very obvious mistake, and I don't see how this couldn't have been caught in the editing.

G: Now, we're in the cemetery for real for real. We were also here for real for real earlier, but like, it was a stupid scene.

C: Yeah, we were here the whole time. Dean drove like, 10 feet. [G laughs]

G: Yeah. Anyway, Dean says, "We need to talk." And Lucifer's like, "Yeah, no, this is so stupid." And Dean's like, "No, I'm not talking to you. I'm talking to Sam." But Michael is like, pissed that Dean is here and is like, "Yeah, you you have to not be here. You have no right to be here." And Dean says, "Adam, if you're in there somewhere, I am so sorry." [laughs] At least he apologized!

C: Yeah. I think it was nice that he said that, but then he forgot about that guy for ten seasons, so.

G: Yeah. Michael says, "Adam isn't home right now," and Dean goes, "Well then, you're next on my list. But you know, right now, I need to talk to Sam." But Michael's real pissed, really furious. He goes, "You little maggot. You are no longer a part of this story!" But Cas goes, "Hey, assbutt?" What do you think of this? What do you think of this word? Do you like it? I've heard people not like it.

C: I think it's fun. I mean, I think I encountered it before I had the knowledge and feeling to form an opinion on it, so it's just like, part of who Cas is as a person to me.

G: Yeah. I think- I don't know. I think maybe that's true for me, too. It's just like, I don't know. I think it's cute. I think it's fun. But yeah, it's cuts to Cas and Bobby [laughs], and they're standing-

C: Yeah, they drove here together!

G: Yeah, and Cas is holding a Molotov cocktail, and he throws the bottle directly at Michael, like, directly at Michael's body. And also it's like, a Molotov cocktail of holy oil, I think, or holy fire. [C: Yeah.] And [laughing] Dean just looks back and goes- Oh, wait, and Michael erupts into flames. And Dean turns back and goes, "Assbutt" And Cas is just like, "Uh." And he goes, "He'll be back and upset, but you have your five minutes." But Lucifer, looking at this, goes, "Castiel. Did you just Molotov my brother with holy fire?" [laughs] And then it cuts to Dean, who gives Cas like, a little bit of a "Uh..." side-eye. He's like, "Um, so how are you gonna get out of here?" And Cas just goes, "Haha, [both] uh... no?" [both laugh] [C: So important.] And he's doing that same- he has the same vibe of when he told Sam, "No, it'll be fine."

C: "Everything's gonna be okay!"

G: Yeah. He has one lying face. Lucifer says, “No one dicks with Michael but me,” and he explodes Cas into a puddle. Not even a puddle. It's like, so everywhere. It’s like a fine mist of blood and goo and meat and everything. Anyway, we get the Dean reaction face where he looks at this, and he looks shocked, which is kind of funny, because later, when Bobby dies, Dean looks at it, and goes, "Noo!" [both laugh] So like, I don't know, the juxtaposition of those is pretty funny to me. [C laughs] [C: Yeah.] But yeah, Lucifer starts trying to attack Dean, but then, yeah, Bobby shoots, and Lucifer twists his neck via air, and he dies. [C: Yeah.] And Dean goes, "[both] Noo!" Yeah. And then, like, Dean starts trying to crawl up the hood of the Impala or something. And then Lucifer, like, grabs him by the legs so that he can start punching, and he punches him to hell and back.

C: It's honestly kind of funny. The way the punches are cut feels like a comedy skit.

G: [laughs] Yeah. Anyway, what happened at some point, like, Dean falls to the ground beside the Impala. Dean starts calling out for Sam, but Lucifer is like, "No, yeah, he's in here, but, you know, we're going to feel every crack of your bone." Just like me in the morning. [C laughs] And yeah, he says, "We're gonna take our time." But then Dean, like, holds on to Sam's jacket, and he goes, "Sam, it's okay. It's okay. I'm here. I'm not gonna leave you." And he just like, repeats this for a bit. Like, he's really beaten the fuck up, and Lucifer's still going at him. And then suddenly, as Lucifer raises his fist for that final blow, he catches site of the little [laughs] replacement army guy [C laughs] that Dean put in the ashtray that Sam put in the ashtray before Dean did. [laughing] Wait, this joke escaped me completely. But I mean, like, yeah, there's the army guy there. The way they do it is like, yeah, it's there. And then we like, zoom in on Sam's eye, and there's a glint in in his eye that looks so obviously [C: Fake.] edited in. It looks bad! It looks horrible! And then we just have this quiet- this like, incredibly quiet scene. Is there background music? I don't think there was. But it was just this incredibly quiet scene where, like, you know, Lucifer and now Sam has his fist raised up, and he's looking at the little army guy, and we just get a bunch of flashbacks, and it is- At first, it was like, all of the times that are like Impala-relevant. So like, carving their initials on it, you know, stuff like that, and all the toys, and I don't know, the cassette tape collection. You know, stuff like that. Sleeping in the car, going through the car, Sam brushing- yeah. Did we ever see them carve their initials, aside from here? I don't think so. I think this is like, the first time.

C: Yeah, I mean, they do it when they're kids, and they'll do it in the Bunker table-

G: No, yeah. But I mean, we've never seen the carved initials like, ever.

C: Yeah, I don't think so.

G: Yeah. I mean, they bring it up in, you know, the finale finale. Or at least the pre-finale. They bring it up in 15.19, where they carve- [laughs] what did they carve?

C: Castiel and Jack?

G: I think they put CW- [laughs] No. They put SW, DW, MW, Jack, and Castiel. Or Cas, I think.

C: I think it was Castiel.

G: I'm sure it's Castiel. You know why? Because if they put "Cas," they would have made it double S, [C: Yeah!] and I would have rioted. [C laughs] I don't know. I think it's a fun thing. I think it's a fun thing, the carving, specifically. The flashbacks slowly turn from like, moments in the car to moments with Dean. So now we have scenes that are not in the car, but it's Dean. And like, it's actually like, quite emotional. Like, I felt like, "Aw!" Like, "The show's ending!" you know, when I was watching this scene. And then they did this really horrible editing choice [laughs] where the final scene is a scene where Dean like, hugs Sam in- when he comes back to life in "All Hell Breaks Loose," but they slow it down, so it's a really janky slow motion. [C laughs] So there's just this like, hype-up of- And like, the cuts become faster and faster too. So like, they are building up to something. It falls- it doesn't fall flat. I still think it's flies a little bit, but it's just flies lower than it should have otherwise if they used a more not slow-motion version of this scene. But okay. Go AMV makers or something. [C laughs] Anyway, yeah, we go back to Sam, who is now Sam. And he unclenches. [C laughs] It's him. And he goes, "It's okay. It's okay, Dean. It's gonna be okay. I got him." And then he gets the ring, puts it on the ground, he does the chant, and he looks so scared, and I think that's what got to me. Like, he does look so scared, like, about to jump into this thing. And as he's about to, Michael, like, comes in, and is like, "No! We can't do this. We can't do this." And eventually, like, Michael tries to get Sam to not jump, but Sam just grabs him in with him. [C: Yeah.] And the earth swallows him, and it closes up, and that's it. [C: Yep.] End of story. [C: Goodbye.] If this show ended here, this would be the last we see of Sam. [C: Yes.] And it is quite an affecting thing to think about because we start the story with Sam. Like, this is Sam's story.

C: They never treated it like Sam's story.

G: Yeah. But you know, like, if this was the final episode of the show, and it was just like, okay, start to end, like, we started out with Sam. And like, you know, Sam had an apple pie life or whatever. He was in college. That was like, barely apple pie. That's like, apple tart, maybe. [both laughing] He had an apple tart life, and yeah, and like, you know, he was safe, and he was there and had a girlfriend, which I'm only mentioning because it's important, not because I support the role of misogyny in Supernatural- [C laughs]

C: Well, I do! [G laughs]

G: Yeah, every time you mentioned Jess, it's in support of the role of misogyny in Supernatural.

C: Yeah. I'm nodding my head to show that I agree with misogyny in Supernatural.

G: Yeah. And then his last scene is, he just gets swallowed up by a hole in the earth and dies. And not even just dies, like, is miserable forever. Like, it sucks! [C: Not good.] And I don't know. Yeah, it's truly something. It's something. Yeah. I just wanted to say that.

C: I don't know. I guess it would just be framed as like, a tragedy, obviously. But like, what is the framing? Like, is part of it like, "Well, he made his mistakes, and now he's paying for it," or is it-

G: I don't think so. [C: Yeah, it's just-] I think it's like, "What are the choices we make? And you can make the right choice." And in this case, Sam made the right choice to jump into that thing, etc, and the world was saved, but like, you know, he's gonna be suffering in a cage forever, and Dean's miserable and alone, and Cas is going back to the place that rejected him, and Bobby's back to being by himself. And, you know, it's like, these concepts of, like, "What does it mean?" Like, yeah, you can do the right thing, [C: Right.] but none of that guarantees a happy ending. In fact, maybe even doing the right thing means subsuming yourself into the fact that you're never gonna be happy. [C: Yeah.] And that's- I think that's something. [C: Yeah. I suppose.] Wow. Sorry! A bummer! [laughs]

C: I mean, if it ended here, it wasn't meant to be a tragedy, which is meant to be a bummer.

C: Yeah, Dean's still kneeling on the ground where he was when Sam came back, and Cas shows up, and Dean goes, "Cas, you're alive?" And Cas says, "I'm better than that." and he heals Dean by touching him on the forehead, and Dean gets up.

G: I think there's something to, as I said earlier, like, Dean, like, loses everything, right? [C: Yeah.] Like, he lost Sam-

C: Yeah, he points it out on the car convo, too.

G: Yeah, and lost Bobby. But like, in that scene, he was like, in the car conversation, he was like, actively losing Cas, too. Like, this was somebody he connected with, and now, he's just gonna go back to Heaven. And I don't know. This one- I'm bringing this up here because the "Cas, you're alive?" is like a, you know, "If Cas is alive, then I haven't lost everyone." And then he brings back Bobby, and it's like, "Well, I haven't lost everyone! At least Bobby's here. At least Cas is here," and then he loses those too. And like, by choice, it seems like.

C: Would we say he loses Bobby? I feel like both of them just decided not to hang out. [laughs] Like, it's kinda on them.

G: Yeah, maybe he was like, "Oh, you never even loved my brother." [both laugh] Maybe Bobby was like, "What a good thing that Sam succeeded. Wow!"

C: Yeah, "Hell yeah!"

G: "I knew he had it in him to throw himself into a burning pit in Hell or whatever," and Dean's like, "Dude. Have some sensitivity! I'm mourning." And Bobby was like, "Wait, why are you mourning? I thought you were afraid of like, losing. You just lost your brother!"

C: "Losing, not losing Sam!" [both laugh] Yeah, that's why they don't talk.

G: And Dean was like, "I need to go."

C: So true. Yeah. It seems like more of a choice that's like, "Sam wanted me to live a normal, apple pie life with Lisa, and that means that I'm not gonna talk to any hunters anymore. Bye!" [G: So true.] Yeah. How would Cas have fit into this apple pie life? [G: I don't know.] Sam wanted Dean to go back and like, go live with Lisa and all that shit, but he also wanted Cas to watch over him. Yeah. When Cas was looking at Dean raking leaves, that wasn't about Destiel. He was just following his promise to Sam. [both laughing] Yeah, he was like, "I fucking hate doing this, but I told the love of my life Sam Winchester that I would."

G: Yeah, like, if Dean was secretly gay but he had to be straight to like, keep his promise to Sam, [laughing] Cas is secretly straight, but he had to keep his promise to Dean, and that's why he did all of that?

C: He's secretly straight? [G: Yeah.] Okay, so there's no love for Sam that's causing this.

G: No, yeah, no love for Sam other than, um, I don't know.

C: Brotherly?

G: He prommied! He prommied! [C laughs] He has respect for the promise. He has respect for the lie.

C: He has too much respect for Sam, and that's why he's following the promise and not fucking him. [G laughing] [G: Exactly!] So yeah, Cas heals Dean, who stands up and says, "Cas, are you God?" Kind of a crazy line. What did he mean by that? Dean has had a lot of issues with God this season. Is that related at all to this statement? [G: What is he asking here?] Does he actually believe this for a second, and yeah, also, what is he asking?

G: I think maybe he thought- he did believe it for a second.

C: And that Cas had been God the whole time? And how did he feel about that?

G: I think it's also a little bit wishful thinking, maybe. Like, if Cas is God, [both] he'll bring Sam back or something.

C: Yeah, like, "I thought that God was like, a completely detached figure who didn't give a fuck. But he was here the whole time."

G: Yeah, [laughing] "But if God wanted to fuck me, [C laughs] maybe he'll bring back my brother!" [C: Literally.] And he did! He literally did! [both laughing] But he's not God, he's an angel, so he only brought back Sam's body, not his soul. So true!

C: Yeah. Exactly. Cas says, "That's a nice compliment." which is also an interesting idea.

G: And he's smiling a little bit. He's doing a beatific smile or whatever the fuck.

C: Yeah, yeah. I love when Cas does a beatific smile. I don't think he's done one this whole season.

G: I don't think so too, and he was miserable.

C: But now that he has his powers back, he feels superior again in some way. He's not miserable, and he feels he has the right to beatifically smile. He goes like, "No, but I think he brought me back, new and improved." And he fucking resurrects Bobby. Does he lose his resurrection powers right after this episode? Because I feel it'd be very helpful if he continued to have them for Season 6.

G: Maybe Bobby is not dead. Maybe he just had a broken neck, but he was on the verge of dying. [C laughs] I don't think so. [C: Okay, sure.] I don't think that's true, because your spinal cord does the- what's that? The breathing-

C: Yeah, the brain needs to connected-

G: - the unconscious- What the fuck is that called? The things that you do that you don't think about?

C: The... autonomic functions. So yeah, Bobby's alive, and then we go to the Chuck voiceover in Chuck's house, and he's finishing up the manuscript. And he goes, "Endings are hard, and everyone hates all endings. The fans are always gonna bitch. [laughs] [G: Yeah.] And it's supposed to add up to something, which also makes it hard." [laughs] And then-

G: Imagine like, reading a book, [laughing] and this is like, how it ends. [C laughing]

C: Yeah, you're going to the ending, and it's like, "It's hard to write these because you're fucking annoying!" [G laughs] Anne Rice would do this. Anne Rice would say that you're interrogating the text from the wrong perspective.

G: What are you talking about?

C: Yeah, have you seen that? Apparently- I haven't read any of The Vampire Chronicles, but one of the books called Blood Canticle came out, and it was like, universally panned because it's just bad, and she like, wrote an Amazon review of her own book that was incredibly long, and all of it was like, "You guys don't know what the fuck you're talking about! I can't believe you don't recognize art! [G: So true.] Like, oh, you're telling me I should have gotten an editor? I don't use editors because I know I'm better than them," etc, etc. And one of the opening things is that she says, "You guys are interrogating the text from the wrong perspective." and I think that's the phrase that stuck from that review. But yeah, Chuck would do that.

So yeah, we now have a Dean and Cas, Cas and Dean scene in the Impala, and Dean's driving. Cas is sitting next to him. And Dean asks, "What are you gonna do now?" And Cas says, "Return to Heaven, I suppose. With Michael in the cage, I'm sure it's total anarchy up there." And Dean goes, "So what? You're the new sheriff in town?" And Cas smiles beatifically.

G: And Cas is like, "Ya." [laughs] Cas goes, "Ya, I suppose I am!"

C: Yeah, he says, "I like that" first.

G: [laughs] What's his problem? What is his problem? Let's do a Cas analysis right now.

C: What is his problem? He spent like, a season feeling absolutely miserable as he lost his powers little by little.

G: Yeah. And then he was proven right, so, that's why.

C: Yeah. And also, he was like, "God doesn't care about me. God doesn't wuv me," etc etc. [G: Yeah.] And he got all his powers back. God said, "You're my favorite special little angel," and kissed him on the forehead. [G: Yeah.] And he's like, "Thank God, I don't have to feel as depressed as I did last year when I was hanging out with all these fuckass guys. Goodbye!"

G: Oh, that's true. He probably does associate Dean with like, negativity, because he's like, "Yeah, this is the person that made me experience doubt." And like, that's not true, but Cas thinks it is, you know what I mean? [C: Yeah.] He does think that-

C: Yeah, 'cause he went from like, the lowest like, "Let's all get drunk and die as the world ends" to like, "Oh my god! Like, God loves me, God cares, I have my powers back. He like, wants this for me. I want this for me. Like, I don't want to hang out with this guy anymore. He ruined my life!" [G: Yeah.] Yeah, I mean, I think he still has a fondness for Dean, but I think there's just like a, you know, "That was then. That was my lowest. He was there for me at my lowest. Now, I'm at my highest. I don't need him." [G: Yeah.] Yeah.

G: Well, he will be there in all of your further lowests Cas, but only because [laughs] he will shove your face into the mud face-first. [both laughing]

C: Ex-act-ly. I think there's a fondness. I think there's also just a sense of superiority and moving on. Like, he's like, "God, as my therapist, said that I shouldn't talk to you anymore."

G: Yeah. And like, I think now, more than ever, Cas thinks like, "Oh. I'm an angel, and this is some guy." [C: Yeah.] And that's a sentiment of his that will continue on for a bit and will be the backbone of Season 6. So yeah, I think it's cool that we see it then here. That like, there's already inklings of that here.

C: So yeah, Dean goes, "Wow. God gives you a brand new shiny set of wings, and suddenly, you're his bitch again." Yeah. And Cas does say that he doesn't know what God wants. "I don't know if I can return. It just seems like the right thing to do." So okay, I think we were maybe overstating God's importance regarding his change of heart, but-

G: No, I mean, it's purpose. I think God's part of it, too, for sure. Like, God did bring him back, and that is a big thing. But like, he's chasing the sense of purpose, and he thinks the sense of purpose was given to him by God. Like, I don't think it's a we're attributing too much or anything.

C: Well, he says he doesn't know what God wants exactly.

G: Yeah, but like, "If God gave me my skill, I need to use it." That kind of thing.

C: Yeah. I think that does make sense. Everyone in Heaven hates him and wants him to die. It's incredibly funny that he was like, "I'm gonna go up and I'm gonna rule everybody!"

G: Yeah. Well, he was like, "Well, God said, 'Fag, you will forever.' And so who give a shit if everybody want me to die?"

C: Exactly. And Dean says, "If you do see him, tell him I'm coming for him next." And Cas was like, "Oh, you're angry!" [laughs]

G: He's kind of shocked. [laughs] It's so funny. [C: Yeah.] He's like, "You're angry." and he's saying this like it's a reveal. [laughs]

C: Yeah, he's like, "Wait, aren't we like, good? Like, I'm cruising. I'm living my best life. I brought your Bobby guy- that one? He's back. Like, we all knew your brother was gonna die. Like, what's up?" Dean goes, "That's an understatement." And Cas says, "He helped. Maybe even more than we realize." And yeah, Dean says explicitly, "[both] That's easy for you to say, because he brought you back. But what about Sam? And what about meeee?"

G: Yeah. "Where's my grand prize?"

C: "All I got is my brother in a hole."

G: Yeah. And Cas says this line that like, is kind of iconic to me. Also doesn't make a lot of sense. I don't know. They're trying to do something. He says, "You got what you asked for. No paradise, no Hell. Just more of the same. Admit it, Dean. What would you rather have? Peace or freedom?" And he says it, "Peace... or freedom?" [both laugh] He's really selling it.

C: He's practicing for his TED Talk.

G: Yeah, we go to Dean, but like, as he turns his head to talk to Cas, Cas has disappeared, and Dean goes, "Well, you really suck at goodbyes. You know that?" [C: Yeah.] I mean, it is incredibly funny that Dean was like, "What about Sam? What about me?" And Cas is like, "Well, you made your choice, Dean." [both laughing] And then he seemingly immediately goes to the Cage to bring back Sam!

C: No, that is so true! [laughing] Yeah, no, at what point was Cas like, "Okay, it's Cage time." Like, did he go to Heaven first for a while, and he was like, "This kind of sucks!"

G: "This is kind of boring. I need an adventure." [laughs]

C: Like, "I'm kinda bored. Let me just nip down to the Cage for a second." Or yeah, was it just like, "Dean, you have to accept that Sam is gone... forever. Oh my god, he's gonna be soo happy when I surprise him next week!" [both laughing] Like, I guess he also didn't know that he was gonna succeed. Maybe he just wanted to be like, [G: Give it a shot, yeah.] "I'm gonna say something so wise. It's gonna leave Dean in a really emotionally stable spot if I try and fail. I think this is gonna be what's really gonna help him throughout the rest of his life in case I die down there." So what is it that- Okay, like, Dean asked for this, when?

G: Asked for what? What are you talking about?

C: "You got what you asked for, Dean"? Like, what is he talking about, and also when did he ask for it?

G: No Dean's just general idea that like, Heaven shouldn't exist.

C: True. Still exists?

G: What?

C: But it still does exist.

G: I don't know. I mean for Dean, it's- I don't know. I don't know.

C: No, no, no. "No, Paradise, no Hell" is just the outcomes of the Lucifer/Michael fight. [G: Apocalypse, yeah.] That's what he's talking about. There we go. Okay, yeah. He didn't want the fight to happen. The fight didn't happen. [G: Yeah.] And that means that the earth is going to stay the same. [both] Yeah. "Peace or freedom." What is peace to this situation?

G: I have no idea. Is peace-

C: Is it when Heaven wins the fight? Is that what peace is?

G: Yeah. But like, I don't know. I think you can argue that this is peace and freedom. Like, yeah, Dean's out of the hunting life. He's fine. He's miserable, but he's fine. I mean, you can make the argument that peace doesn't necessarily mean happiness, and yeah. I don't know. It's just like, it falls a bit flat. Maybe that's the reason why. Cas is like, "Oh, this argument is not working. I think I need to get Sam out of the Cage." [laughs] Yeah. So we have more of a voiceover. Chuck is going like, "Yeah, this is the last time Dean and Bobby are going to see each other for a very long time." It's not that long. [laughs] Also like, this is cut by like, Dean and Bobby having a hug and like, Dean driving away. And Chuck says, "Bobby's going to be hunting a rugaru next week, but Dean won't be. And Dean didn't want Cas to save him. Every part of him-"

C: Very interesting 4.01 callback. I was surprised that it happened here.

G: Also like, it's just an interesting way to put it. [C: Yeah.] "Dean didn't want Cas to save him." He was still alive. Was he gonna die of injuries?

C: Oh, I thought he was talking about 4.01.

G: No! He was talking about just this!

C: 5.22. Just now? [G: Yeah, yeah.] He's gonna die from being punched in the face?

G: He wants to die and find a way to bring Sam back. I mean, he can get CTE, so [laughs] he'll die a long while from now. I think it's just an interesting way to say that Cas saved him. Like, I don't think that's true, necessarily.

C: I think if they wanted this to work, he had to be dying a little bit harder by the time Cas showed up.

G: Like, I think it could be fine to have him like lying on the ground obviously dying of injuries or something. [C: Yeah.] And then Cas shows up and like, he's back to life. But yeah, apparently, every part of him, every fiber he's got wants to die or find a way to bring Sam back, but he isn't gonna do either. He's not gonna die, ever? [both laugh] "Because he made a promise." Yeah. And the promise manifests itself by Dean knocking on Lisa's door. And it's like, night, and Lisa opens the door, and she like, looks a bit shocked, and Dean is like, wearing a very sheepish smile. And he goes like, "Hey. If it's not too late, I think I'll take you up on the beer." And Lisa goes, "It's never too late." Shut the fuck up! [both laugh] I'm so sorry. It's not her fault that she's a woman in Supernatural.

C: Yeah. And also, we said that we'll try to analyze her more like a real person [G: Yeah.] rather than a woman in Supernatural because she's going to be in so much of Season 6 that it doesn't make sense to dismiss her every time she's on screen. [G: Yeah, okay, so.] But it is hard. [laughs] But yeah.

G: I think right now, what we ought to do is just discuss this as it is right now, which is that it's a really stupid thing that Supernatural did. And like, we need to get it out of our system here, because in Season 6, I think it's our responsibility, I think, to like, engage with the Lisa storyline as benevolently towards Lisa as possible or something. [C: Yeah.] Yeah, this is so stupid. [both laugh] And like, you know, Dean steps in, and then, like, Lisa hugs him, and goes, "It's okay. It's going to be okay."

C: Like, are you his mommy? What is this? [laughs]

G: What is this? And it's just like, this is what I was trying to compare with earlier with Sam with like, Jess, but the thing with Sam and Jess in their apple tart life was that like, Jess doesn't know anything. And like, Sam wasn't in active trauma mode in college, which is a very different dynamic from Dean and Lisa, where Lisa knows that stuff happened, but doesn't know anything about anything about it. And it's like, having to play the role of being like, careful and walking on eggshells around this guy while she is also taking care of a child. Which like, I don't know. It's just an incredibly different dynamic. And like, I understand that what they're trying to do is that "it's not just Lisa, it's the family!" Like, she has a kid. And I remember when they were trying to do the Lisa thing earlier this season, and we both said that like, why not Cassie? And it's like, that's probably for the best, because if it was with Cassie, that's gonna be a toddler. And it's like, maybe it's better that it's like, a 13- or 12-year-old kid.

C: Is he really that old?

G: I think so. 12? Yeah?

C: I'm gonna look up Ben Braeden. Well, no, okay. He had a fling with Lisa nearly 9 years prior, and then there's the 9 months of pregnancy, so he was probably turning 8 in season. [G: Yeah.] So yeah, I guess he's 10 to 11 now. [G: Yeah.] Yeah.

G: But yeah, I mean, so the point is to have a kid. But yeah, I don't know. It's just, the way they characterize Lisa is like, what is this?

C: She's just been here waiting for him the whole time.

G: She's just been here waiting for him, like, yeah. And I don't know. Again-

C: This is also how they characterize Kate Milligan.

G: Yeah, I'm trying to- I guess I'm gonna try to hold out severe judgments until Season 6, so.

C: Yeah, I think the way I have to approach it is just like, "This is what I see on screen. What is the type of person who would be like this?" and then try to just fill that in with a complete person. [G: Yeah.] Like, okay. Say she has been waiting for Dean the whole time. Like, why do we think that is?

G: Yeah. I don't know. [laughs] I think maybe she just got freaked out by Dean last time, and it's not like she was waiting for Dean. It was more of a, "Oh, thank god this guy I thought was going to kill himself or something is alive!"

C: Yeah. But I also feel like if you're someone who cares or is nervous about it, like, you start throwing a bunch of questions, right? There's a kind of franticness that she just doesn't represent because she's just meant to be this calming presence.

G: Yeah, that's the thing.

C: No, okay, I'm getting off the- Okay. I need to think of her as a real person.

G: Because they've done Amelia with Jimmy, so like- Oh my god, Jimmy's dead. RIP. But like, they did Amelia, and they did her well. [C: Yeah, I liked her.] I think her characterization was like- she felt like a person who was actually experiencing this shit. But like, for some reason, they just completely missed the mark on Lisa. At least here, yeah.

C: Yeah. And I get- Okay, she finds out monsters are real, and Dean saves her son's life. I get like- I don't know if you're sort of unsatisfied, I get like, making a big deal of that in your head, especially because it was like, linked with an extremely stressful time of her life, and like, her learning a lot of new things about the world. I get like- I don't know. Sort of putting Dean on some sort of hero hot guy pedestal after that. And then, yeah, he comes by. He worries her a lot. And then he comes back. I think there's enough adrenaline associated with him that she might just be like, "Okay, yeah, let's be chill and try to have him stay." But I don't know. Is that the vibe? What is the vibe? I don't know. I mean, apparently, she talked about him to her friends before Season 3 as the best lay she's ever had, [G: Yeah.] so she has had a long term sort of thing for Dean.

G: I think, okay. You know what? I berate her so much. If I was in her position, I think I'd let- not Dean, but like, you know, a person who is [laughs] akin to Dean in my life, into my life. I think maybe I'll do it, so I don't know.

C: Yeah. Like, you're worried about this person. This person is also exciting and [G: Yeah.] you're kind of bored.

G: Yeah, or like, I don't know. But like, I think because we know for a fact that this isn't just like, helping Dean get back to his feet or something. It's- Dean will be the dad of the family now.

C: Yeah, she wants them to be Ben's dad. I think it's at that point where I start being like- Yeah.

G: Like, yeah, maybe I'll let this theoretical Dean into my life. But if I had a theoretical child, I won't be like, "Yeah, you can stay here forever and ever, and also, you're the father of this kid." Or the mother. I don't know. Gender diversity. [laughs]

C: Yeah, like I'd put you up in a hotel for a few weeks.

G: I think it's like, you can stay over for a bit until you get back to your feet, and I'll help you find a job if you want to do that, I'll help you find an apartment or something.

C: Yeah. And if during that time, he proves himself to be really good with Ben, and they like, fall into bed together a few times also, then I can see them getting to where they are in Season 6. But the immediacy doesn't make sense.

G: Yeah, I think what it is is that it just is like, a foregone conclusion that they're gonna be a family now, is the thing that bothers me. [C: Yeah.] Because if it was like, Lisa helped Dean back to his feet, and then, in Season 6, months or years later, they have ended up becoming a romantic couple, I'll be like, "Yeah, that makes sense. Why not?" But like, here, it's like, they just go right into it. Like, are they gonna fuck later tonight? [laughing] Like, what's the situation? What is the situation? What is the situation? What is the situation? I don't know.

C: I could not tell you. See, I feel like all of my making Lisa seem like a real person things involve, like, Dean sort of being an exciting fling thing that maybe develops more later. But yeah, this is very much like, "Here he is. My husband, home from the war." [G laughs]

G: You don't even know the guy! Well, whatever. I think we should move on 'cause etc. It like, zooms out slowly, and then Chuck goes, "So, what's it all add up to? It's hard to say. But me, I'd say this was a test for Sam and Dean. And I think they did alright." And then there's like, flashbacks, whatever. Yeah. "Up against good, evil, angels, demons, destiny, and God himself, they made their own choice. They chose family. And well, isn't that kind of the whole point?" No, it's not! It's hope! [both laugh] Yeah, you're lying to me!

C: You wrote that, Chuck. You should know.

G: Yeah. Anyway, you know, stuff's happening. Then we go back to Chuck, and he writes, "The End." And then he goes, "No doubt, endings are hard. But then again, what isn't?" [laughs] No, he says, "Nothing ever really ends, does it?" And then he like, gives a little bit of a smile, and then he disintegrates into the air. And he's God. RIP. No, not RIP. [C laughs] Amen? I don't know. [both laughing]

C: Yeah. Yeah, I think it's that.

G: I think it's Amen.

C: I'm a little confused by what he means by, "they chose family."

G: Yeah, [laughing] I did say we should discuss it, but now that we're here, I'm like, "I don't know." I don't know.

C: Okay, it's been a test for Sam and Dean. Okay, the test was is Dean gonna grow up and trust Sam enough that like, he's not gonna prevent Sam from doing this. And is Sam's-

G: [laughing] And is Sam gonna shove himself into a pit?

C: - love for Dean strong enough that he'll be able to wrest control back from Lucifer and throw himself into a big old hole? [G laughs] That's the test?

G: [laughing] I don't know. It-

C: And choosing family means respecting your brother from Dean and-

G: [laughing] But only if he wants to die. In other ways, you shouldn't respect him. [C: Uh-huh.] I don't know. I don't know. I mean- yeah. I think, no. Actually, you know what. In further analysis, I think what he's saying is that they made their own choice, and that is the point. In that they chose family- The point is the choice, not the family.

C: But like, how did they choose family, though?

G: Secret! [both laughing] I don't know. I think they chose family in that Dean decided that even if it means he'd die, he won't let Sam die alone. I think that's it.

C: Okay, sure. And then that is how Sam was able to wrest back control, 'cause Dean was there. [G: Yeah.] Or the Impala was there. [G: Yeah.] Literally, if Bobby had just driven the Impala over, and then stood to the side, it would have been fine, too. [laughs]

G: So yeah, I think the point is the choice, not the family.

C: Okay. Sure. Alright. I see it.

G: Hashtag abortion rights or whatever. [C: Yeah.] Yeah. So we go back- This scene, it boggles my mind. So we go back to Lisa's house, and we're like, looking through the window, and like, Dean is inside, and Lisa is on the counter, preparing food. And then she goes and like, serves the the food. And, like, Ben is also on the table.

C: Help in the kitchen, Dean.

G: Dean is drinking whiskey. [C: Yeah.] Why?

C: 'Cause- Yeah, she offered him a beer, so it doesn't really make sense.

G: I mean, I understand that people can drink whiskey, in houses, even, but like, it's dinner time. You're about to eat. You're about to eat. You've not done anything yet. You're about to eat. There's a kid in front of you. [C: Yeah.] Who- like, Lisa offered him whiskey?

C: Dean's looking off to the side away from Ben also, which is like, I feel like if your mother decides that you just have a new dad now, like, that new dad now should take some effort to talk to you. [laughs] [G: Yeah.] He's literally ignoring the child, swigging whiskey, and Lisa's like, "Yes. This is what I want."

G: I don't know what is it with the alcohol that really- Do you understand where my hesitation comes from? And also like, do you think it's reasonable? Like, he shouldn't be drinking whiskey here, I think, is my opinion.

C: Like, in this scene? In her house? In front of the kid? What's your particular objection.

G: Well, it's before the- I think whiskey is like, that's after food.

C: Oh, okay. [both laugh] That was it?

G: This is just a gourmet thing. No, but like, I think it's like, after food, and it's like, not with the children. I don't know. Because if this was wine, I'd probably be like, "It's fine." But I think whiskey is much more stronger than wine. [C: Yeah.] And I just, I don't know. Because I don't wanna come in here and be like, "If you're an alcoholic, you should like, not be near your children at all." Like, that's- 'Cause I'm afraid that it's gonna come off like that, right? [C: Uh-huh.] And that's why I'm asking like, do you think this is like, an appropriate thing for me to say? I just think like, again, it falls into the idea of like, Lisa, what is she doing? And what is Dean doing? And what is Ben thinking? I don't know. If you're a kid, and then some just random guy shows up, and he's like, I don't know, "I'm gonna be here for a while," and then he's drinking whiskey like, on the dinner table, it's like, have some courtesy. Have some decorum. I don't know. What do you think.

C: I think it is probably- like, on best behavior, one probably wouldn't do that. I think there are different norms in different families about like, drinking and the presence of children and all that. I think it's fine that he's doing it.

G: You think so? Okay.

C: And I don't think that Ben would necessarily think too much of it. I think that it speaks to a level of trust that Lisa has in Dean that I don't think is entirely earned. Yeah. I mean, it is kind of odd that it's the last shot of the season. [G: Yeah.] But I guess the point is just Dean's in a lot of pain, and he won't be able to fully commit himself to this. I think that the discomfort might be like, it's purposeful. [G: Intentional.] Yeah.

G: Okay. But the discomfort makes sense, you think?

C: I think you are supposed to- I think they do make it pretty clear that he's like, not looking at Ben while he's drinking. I think it is meant to be like a thing where he's not able to commit himself fully. But also, they are so in love with the idea that it's a given that they're just going to be a family now that it is kind of hard to know if the discomfort is intentional. I think the point is just Dean is in pain is the main point, and I don't know if there's an additional point.

G: But they also just drink whiskey all the time, so it could mean absolutely nothing. [laughs]

C: Yeah, I mean, they drink beer more than whiskey, but yeah, they do drink whiskey sometimes.

G: Yeah. Okay, well. [laughs] We zoom out of the house, and then there's like, a streetlight, and then it zaps out, and then there's someone beneath it. And then, like, we go to that someone. [laughs] And it's Sam, watching this entire thing. He's already back! [both laugh]

C: No, I'm so confused.

G: [laughing] It's been like, a day.

C: How was he in there for 200 years if this is tonight? Unless it was later?

G: I've been saying. I have been saying.

C: Is this meant to be like, a time skip?

G: I don't think it's a time skip. I think it's like, at most three days later. [laughs]

C: Okay, 'cause I thought this was like, tonight, right? Which means that Sam was in there for, like, what? Five hours? [both laughing] Well, okay, let's see. This confrontation happened at high noon, and he went in at like, around 12:07 or whatever because Michael was only gone for like, a few minutes. And then it's night. It's like, dinner time. So it's like, 7PM? So Sam was in there for like, seven hours?

G: Yeah, it is so incredibly funny to me that like, I don't know. When Cas was talking about- or when Anna was talking about- or I don't know, when the both of them were talking about how Cas got Dean out of Hell, Cas was like, "Oh, yeah, I lost an entire garrison. It was so difficult. We were like, on a time crunch, and we still didn't make it." And then he got Sam out in seven hours? [laughs]

C: Wait, wait, that implies- were they fighting through Hell for the whole like, four months or whatever while Dean was gone? Two months? [G: I think so, yeah.] Okay, I mean, I guess the Cage- maybe there's a shortcut to it.

G: [laughs] He just literally opened it up again with the rings and then just went in. So true.

C: No, that's true, because Dean pocketed the rings, right? So Cas could have just slipped them out of his pocket and done the incantation and then went in.

G: So true. Go, Cas.

G: Well, what did we think about this episode? I found it interesting. [C: It's fine.] I found it fun to talk about. I found it fun to watch. I found it pivotal. [C laughs] I found it influential. [laughs]

C: I found it fine. [G laughs]

G: Etc. Okay, Best Line/Worst Line. I would say my best line are the combo of Dean being like, "It's okay, it's okay, I'm here." and then Sam going, "It's okay. I got him." Like, those two lines, you know? I don't know. I think it's the "It's okay" part of it where they're like, trying to comfort each other where, you know, for Dean, it's like, "It's okay. You're not gonna die alone." For Sam, it's like, "It's okay. I'm going to be able to do this thing," which I think also reflects, like, their perspective on their roles and their priorities, etc.

C: Yeah, yeah, that's nice.

G: Wow! Analysis. [laughs] I'm so annoying! Okay, let's go.

C: I don't think I have any analyses. Best lines- I don't know. I think Lucifer was appropriately creepy with "All those times you ran away, you weren't running from them. You were running towards me." [G: Towards me!] And I think Cas was very cute when he went, "Oh, you want me to lie. It's gonna be okay!" [laughs]

G: So true. He is cute. I think my worst line is like, when Michael was like, "After what you've done?" [both laugh] or whatever, and then just never elaborated. It just makes Michael sound so vindictive.

C: Yeah. I didn't like when Dean called Cas a maybe slur.

G: Oh, yeah. He did call Cas a maybe slur. [C laughs] Spreadsheets. Okay. Misogyny, there is, and it is fundamental to the episode.

C: Yeah. But also, are we gonna end up putting points in every Season 6 episode where Lisa is present? Or should we just get all the Lisa points out of our system right now?

G: I think we can figure out what they're doing and how they're doing it, etc. Like, I think we can find a way to interface with nuance, etc. [C: Yeah.] I think the misogyny here is three. Yeah?

C: Yeah, that makes sense to me. Go for it.

G: Racism, I think, is 0?

C: Yes, I don't remember anything.

G: And homophobia. I do think that is here.

C: Yeah, I think "junkless sissy" should count as a homophobia. It's also a transmisogyny, but that would be included under misogyny, and we already gave it 3.

G: I think it's a 3. I think 1 and 2 is like, casual stuff. This one feels elevated from casual.

C: Huh. I mean, he calls Sam a pansy in Season 2, also, right? What did we give that?

G: I don't know. What episode is that?

C: Uh, "Tall Tales"? Season 2. Oh, we were only giving points per occurrence and not magnitude back then, so.

G: A failure in our duty and action.

C: I feel like I'm fine with a 3. I feel like I wouldn't have gone for a 3. I would have gone for a 2. But I'm fine with a 3.

G: Okay, let's do it. Okay, IMDb. Who's winning? Or we shouldn't say because, like- It's me. But like- [laughs] Next week. It's for next week's season ender wrap up. [C: Yeah.] Okay, so what's your guess?

C: It's high. [G: Of course.] 9.4.

G: Ah. Can I be honest? That is also my guess. Do you wanna guess something different for it?

C: So you're just gonna win because you're currently winning, and we'll have the same point differential if you vote the same as me? [G: Yeah.] I see.

G: Yeah, no, but I'm honest! I'm honest. I have integrity as a person and a podcaster.

C: You know what? I'm gonna change mine. I'm just gonna go big or go home. [G: Okay.] I'm gonna say 9.6, even though that's absolutely wrong.

G: How about I go bigger than you? [laughs]

C: No! [laughing] You're free to do whatever you want.

G: Okay, I'm going to go 9.7. No, I'm gonna go 9.8. Go big or go home. [C laughs] Is that too high? I feel like that's insane.

C: It's definitely not a 9.8, and I don't even think it's a 9.6, which is why I said a 9.4.

G: Okay, I'll put 9.8

C: What I should be doing is, I should be calculating the biggest point differential- or the smallest point differential I need from you in order for my average to actually reach yours, right?

G: Okay, let's do it. Sure, yeah. Figure it out.

C: I just think that'll take long, and I don't want to, actually. [G laughs] But that would be the right strat.

G: Okay, let's see. Okay, I'll see it now. So your guess is 9.6, and mine is 9.8. If it's lower than 9.6, you have a pretty good chance, I think, maybe. [C: Maybe.] I don't think it's lower than- I think it's actually exactly 9.6. [C: Really?] Yeah. Okay, [both] let's see. Oh! It's a 9.7! [laughing]

C: Oh my god! Look at that! World peace. Well.

G: World is a wonder, even. [C: Yeah.] Well, there's many user reviews.

C: Yeah, I'd assume so.

G: People enjoy it. "5 years in the making. Amazing." "The finale that should have been." Shut the fuck up. But it's true. [laughs] But you shouldn't say it!

C: "Most of us can't say enough about how terrific the show was, with the exception of one classy genius who felt that the episode was too emotional and that Dean should end up with a skanky chick." What is the- I don't understand. I want to know the source. I want to know what they're summarizing as this.

G: This one did make me feel feelings. This was in November 20, 2020- which is November 21 for you guys. It's just November 20 for me. It goes, "Sam and Dean and Cas and Bobby deserved this ending. An ending with emotion and meaning." And I'm like, "Aw!" The finale was so bad. [C: Yeah.] Yeah. At least you're gonna give a fuck, [laughs] just because it's so horrible. [C: It's true.] "Power of love." So true. "It all started with a car." Yeah, I think there's like, a lot of people after the finale going like, "This is what the ending should have been like." I don't know. People are just into it. Oh, this one says, "I don't get the hype." Let's see, what's your input? "I would say the episode was beautifully done and written well, especially how it started with talking about Baby, but as a serious ending, I don't like it because it has one brother in Hell and one above, and just like the actual series finale that I also don't like, it's not how I would want it to end." That's your problem! [C laughs] People are into it. This one says, "Anticlimactic. The show is starting to run out of ideas. [C: What?] It has done that a long time ago."

C: Well. It's gonna be a while.

G: That's pretty much it. Wow, we are done with Season 5!

C: Someone keeps calling the Lucifer!Sam "Lusamfer," [laughs] which is kind of fun.

G: Isn't it Samifer? Isn't that what they say?

C: Samifer's also the ship name, though, isn't it? [G: Ah.] So I feel like some people use it to say the guy, and some will use it to say the ship name. Lusamfer is a way around that, I suppose. [laughs]

G: Yeah. Okay, well, that’s it for this episode of Busty Asian Beauties. Next week, we will be doing a Season 5 wrap-up episode with a very special guest, so check that out, wait for it, etc.

C: Yeah. [G: Yeah!] Not like, a celebrity, though. Does it make it seem like it’s a celebrity? They’re a celebrity to me, but they're not a genuine celebrity.

G: They're a celebrity to me, but they’re not Misha Collins. [C: Yeah.] Thank god. [both laugh] Yeah. Leave us a rating or a review wherever you get your podcasts.

G: You can email us any feedback, comments, or inquiries at [email protected]. See you guys next time! [both] Bye!

[guitar music]

#transcript

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