#i wanted them to learn the consequences for their actions

[lizardho]

I was like 11-12 years old when I figured out at a boring-ass church activity that you could put rocks into little plastic spoons and then pelt people who annoyed me with them. I did this for the rest of the activity, and at Sunday dinner the next night was bragging about my victory (cornering the mean kid who picked on my youngest brother and pelting him with rocks). One of my cousins was like “no way, that sounds SO fun! Let’s do that RIGHT NOW!” So we grabbed spoons and went and got pebbles from the back yard and launched them at each other.

The problem was my grandma sold her soul for the world’s most resilient plastic spoons so we could launch those fuckers HARD. I gave out welts like candy on Halloween, and I got them back in kind.

So we resorted to taking cover and giggling until we got whacked, then yelping, then returning fire.

My cousin hid in my grandpa’s little fishing boat. It was a good boat, but simple and honestly underused. We didn’t know the little windows on it, meant to keep the wind out of my grandpa’s face while he drove, were cracking. However, they were definitely cracking. Eventually it became obvious and we realized we had been being dumb.

This was NOT the first time in my life I’d been dumb roughhousing and broken something, and I had developed a reputation in my family as being “suicidally honest” so I was the one to deliver the bad news. My grandpa let out a pretty good chuckle and said it was OK, tousled my hair, and asked my grandma to bring me cake. I am not kidding. I learned later he hated his boat and only bought it for his kids’ sakes, since he thought everyone needed to know how to fish. At the time though I was just bewildered and pleased at my good fortune. FINALLY, at long last, being honest and telling the truth about breaking something expensive was getting me cake. I knew if I kept trying it would eventually serve me, and now so had CAKE. I was pleased as could be.

My dad, on the other hand, was livid. He LOVED that boat. He spent several weeks each summer recovering from breaking ribs in that boat every year for about 7 years prior to this incident. He had great memories and memories that boat. So he told my Grandma NO cake for me AND that I’d be coming by this weekend to fix stuff around the house and pay for the broken window with my babysitting/lawn mowing money.

Obviously I was devastated, but that felt more in-line with the way things normally went when I broke something expensive so I just figured it was OK. My grandpa gave my grandma a look and sadly said “Ok, have her here on Saturday to help me with some yard work.”

That Saturday my dad woke me up at 6:00 sharp and drove me, sleepy and bewildered, to my grandpa’s house. He was mumbling under his breath the whole time but he thought he was teaching me consequences for my actions so he was ultimately OK with it.

We get to my grandpa’s house at 6:15. My grandpa is outside with a ladder hanging Christmas lights. The lawn is freshly mowed, the trees and garden are weeded and well-tended to, the carnations in the front yard look immaculate, and my grandpa has this giddy mischievous look on his face. He tells me he was so excited that I was coming over that he couldn’t sleep, so he did all the yard work himself. He asked me to help him put up Christmas lights and decorate the Christmas tree, which I did, then said that because I was such a good helper I could have some pancakes for breakfast. I was sent home with the slice of cake I had been denied the week before, wrapped to keep it as fresh as possible.

The whole way home my dad looked a little miffed, but told me that he was glad I had been honest and was proud of me for helping grandpa. I know he wanted me to Learn a Lesson™️the cowboy way, like he had as a kid, but didn’t have much room to complain since I’d still been Put To Work.

I think that was a lesson for both of us, although I’m not totally sure what it was supposed to show me. I think it was my grandpa’s way of showing my dad that discipline without tenderness doesn’t count as much. He died last year and I miss him terribly, as does my dad. I hope that my story of victory, drama, punishment, and ultimately a secret second victory is meaningful to someone else out there, but if not it still means a lot to me ❤️

[bestrongbebrave49]

I think a lot of people don’t seem to realise that every book does teach you something but not necessarily from a moralistic point of view; books with unreliable narrators and shady characters teach you that the world isn’t kind and that perception can be warped. That two truths can co-exist simultaneously and that people either intentionally or unintentionally lie to themselves and/or others as a means of self-preservation, gaining something for themselves, and/or simply because change and self-awareness are difficult when you lack the desire (for whatever reason) to do so.

However, let’s say you love the twisted character and you’re enjoying their deceptive nature, their manipulative engagement with others, and the self-centred actions they take. What does that say about you personally? The answer is way more simple than a lot of people assume; you enjoy learning about the darker aspects of human behaviour in a safe environment where that characters actions can never harm you.

You enjoy the violence because it’s not being directed at a real person. You cheer on the character because through the power of words you’ve found them compelling, exhilarating, relatable, disturbed, fascinating - they are a fictional lens of darker aspects that you can cheer on because they are solely comprised of words, or are portrayed by an actor, or are lines drawn on to a page.

Books can and do teach you empathy, injustice, a difference in perspective. They broaden your mind and give you comfort with the parts you may relate to. They push you out of your comfort zone and wrap you in a thrilling experience whereby you can escape from your troubles whilst seeking enjoyment.

But they are also fictional depictions and if you cheer for the villain that doesn’t mean you have failed morally. It means you found a fictional character compelling. If you enjoy the morally reprehensible events in a book, it means you like the fictional depiction of events - not that you condone those actions in real life.

I love Ramsey Bolton - from the shows granted haven’t yet finished the books - I cried when his character was no longer a central figure. That doesn’t mean I would go up to a real life perpetrator of such violence and congratulate them, cheer them on and demand they suffer zero consequences. Books teach you a lot about what you do and don’t like in fiction; what tropes, characterisations, themes and plots you prefer from ones you don’t. They can teach you right from wrong but that doesn’t mean they necessarily have to or that every book should. Many stories expect you to already understand morals before you crack the spine open.

Every book you read will be a journey of self-discovery, but that’s all every book should teach you really - more about yourself. What aspects intrigued you, excited you, and drew you in? Which repulsed you, and why were you offended, scandalised and uncomfortable during the reading process? Was that the fundamental purpose of the story or was there something in the text that hit a nerve?

I certainly have a purpose for what I personally write, but equally I write things for fun. When I write a morally reprehensible act it’s not because I want the take away to be - go forth and do these things - but simultaneously I want people to enjoy reading the scenes and find enjoyment in them.

I want whoever reads my stories to come away with some sort of understanding of themselves; whether it be a comforting aspect or an unsettling one - an understanding of new knowledge they didn’t have before the reading experience, or merely the cemented fact that they enjoy something they already knew they liked. I want them to learn they like my writing or for my writing to help them understand that something in the text - heck, maybe the whole book - just wasn’t for them.

Every piece of art we interact with will help us uncover something about ourselves however minor or major that discovery may be, and no matter or how brief or long our engagement with said artwork is.

Yes, books are teachable moments where morals are concerned, but if you’re using them purely as a moral testing means then I’m sorry (truly) but you’ve been unintentionally engaging with the art form in a damaging way.

“it sounds like you’re justifying their actions-“ i am. they’re a fictional character. i’m okay with anything they do all the time. hope this helps.

[burningcheese-merchant]

I NEED GENERAL HCS ABOUT YANDERE BEAST!!!

YOU GOT IT, BOSS 🫡

Mystic Flour is the only one who's self-aware and knows how fucked up and ridiculous all of this is. She hates herself and her friends for being this way, she hates Dark Cacao for making her feel this way (but also understands how unreasonable it is to blame him), she hates that she's ultimately been ripped away from enlightenment through this... disease that's been brought upon her. But she also can't change and doesn't really know how to (and the feelings are honestly so strong that they practically control her. She wants to obsess over Cacao but also doesn't. She has to endure a lot of cognitive dissonance and being at war with herself all the time, and it causes a massive mental and emotional strain on her), so she's essentially stuck with this bizarre infatuation with the man she's supposed to hate

Silent Salt is the most "successful" of the five, in that he makes the best effort to actually understand who White Lily is as a person and accommodate her accordingly. He knows what flowers she likes and brings her them. He knows what she likes to eat. He knows how she braids her hair (he learned that by watching her do it lol). Things like that. And he really, truly has no interest in harming her in any way, so he's also technically the least threatening one. Lily is more willing to put up with him than the others are with their Beasts because of this: he's able to demonstrate that he's capable of being docile, thus lulling her into a big enough sense of security that she doesn't run from him on sight. (But make no mistake, Salt is still creepy and a sick person and what he does is wrong. The dynamic between him and Lily is arguably the saddest one because Lily feels a certain sense of obligation towards him; she doesn't return his feelings but still feels sort of touched that he makes this effort for her, and also - more importantly - she feels like she has no right to judge or condemn him for his actions because of her own as Dark Enchantress. She's a bad person, too. So in a way, to some degree, she understands him. In fact, she almost has this misguided notion of maybe "fixing" him, as a consequence of him being so calm around her. They lose ground with each other whenever the yandere tendencies REALLY come out of Salt (as in, when she spends time with other people lol); he scares her and pushes her away further with his controlling behavior, she feels like she undoes whatever semblance of progress she made in "taming" him. They're trapped in a very strange and tragic loop where Lily is constantly victim-blaming herself and accidentally enabling Salt's obsession, and Salt is not facing proper consequences for his behavior nor fully grasping that he's being abusive.)

Eternal Sugar, having once been the Herald of Happiness, has experience with charming and pleasing others, and understanding one's joys and wishes. However, after becoming a Beast, she's come to ultimately place HER happiness before all others', and this mentality manifests in her attempts to woo Hollyberry. She'll give Holly happy dreams full of things she knows Holly likes (she, like Salt, actually does make an effort) - BUT, many of these things end up being warped to Sugar's own liking, as she is a fundamentally selfish person and believes her way is superior. Thus, whatever pleasant dreams she grants Holly always end up conforming to Sugar's own tastes (and she always does SOMETHING to Holly's friends and loved ones in them, because Sugar is extremely petty and jealous). Holly is not happy with this, but allows it to happen because she believes it's a better alternative to incentivizing Sugar to come to her in person (she hates enabling Sugar in this way, but Holly always prefers to try deescalation if and when possible). Holly honestly feels really sorry for Sugar, she thinks Sugar is a deeply sick and unhappy (haha) person and, like Lily with Salt, wants to help her. However, unlike Lily, she's more level-headed about the situation and fully grasps the gravity/severity of it all, and so everything she says and does with/to Sugar is extremely calculated so as not to antagonize her and risk retaliation (against her loved ones; Holly can handle herself and isn't afraid of anyone).

Shadow Milk, like Flour, also grapples with a level of cognitive dissonance regarding his obsession with Pure Vanilla, in that he is hateful and endlessly frustrated towards Vanilla but also genuinely adores him. He will be caught sweet-talking and kissing his Vanilla puppet, only to destroy it in anger moments later (and then he'll make another one to replace it, because he legitimately cannot function without Vanilla, even just a puppet version of him). He's waxing poetic about Vanilla's virtues in one breath, then hemming and hawing about Vanilla's flaws in the next. He's irritated by Vanilla's unyielding goody two-shoes nature, he wants to break his mind and spirit as completely as possible... but he also LOVES Vanilla's mental strength and endurance, it's his favorite thing about the man, he never wants Vanilla to break and hopes he stays strong no matter what Milk throws at him. He's cultivated a very Batman/Joker-esque dynamic between them in his mind; of course he wants to "win", but he also adores this game they play together and never wants it to end. Regardless, what underlies Milk's volatile emotions is a very strong sense, albeit deranged, of connection and kinship towards Vanilla. He loves Vanilla because they understand each other so perfectly, are on the same intellectual level (Vanilla is smart, Milk likes that, he wouldn't love him if he was dumb, the only thing dumb people are good for is cheap entertainment), and are ultimately, LITERALLY designed for one another. He hates Vanilla because Vanilla is refusing to accept Milk's POV about the world (not understand, he KNOWS Vanilla understands, VANILLA IS NOT DUMB!), is refusing his advances despite all the love and effort he puts in constantly (come on, who doesn't want to be romantically and sexually harassed inside their own thoughts?), and is actively hindering any other sinister plans Milk has in general (Vanilla knows how to play mind games too. He often stalls Milk for time to figure out how to properly outsmart him. And he always manages to do so, however long it takes). He loves Vanilla, he hates Vanilla, he loves Vanilla, he hates, Vanilla, BUT NO ONE CAN HAVE VANILLA BESIDES HIM REGARDLESS!

Burning Spice, on top of his feverish obsession with Golden Cheese in general, has an obsession WITHIN that obsession: he's obsessed with the concept of marking/branding her. Hickeys on her neck, bruises on her waist and stomach (be they from holding her or outright punching her), scratches on her back. Anywhere and everywhere he can reach with his hands and mouth, he wants to make his presence known, both to her and to anyone who sees her. And that's what's driving it: he wants people to see what he's done to her and know that it was him. It's a way to convey ownership of her. Golden Cheese is HIS, she is HIS to fight and beat and break, HIS to touch and taste, HIS to love and adore, and he wants to rub it into everyone else's face. (On the flipside, he actually would love if she did the exact same to him; nothing would bring him greater joy than her "claiming" him as he wants to "claim" her... and really, he just loves when she's feisty)

Apparently, there's an actual character limit to posts? So I guess I'll stop here lol. One factoid about each Yandere Beast. I have more to offer, all you have to do is ask for it

[halfwayunder]

Caitlyn Character Arc Theory! ("the 3 Caitlyns")

I've had some thoughts on the "3 versions of Caitlyn" that I think we'll have seen by the conclusion of the show and how the final act of season 2 will show us Caitlyn in her completed character arc. Caitlyn 1: the first season

This is the Caitlyn we see in season 1. Optimistic, hopeful and a bit naïve or sheltered you could say. Always seeing the good in people and has an abundance of empathy for the people of Zaun. Fighting is a last resort (not that she's unwilling to defend herself, but if she can resolve it peacefully she will) and killing is also not something she is keen on. (As shown by her intentionally only disabling Sevika's arm despite her trying to kill Vi). Caitlyn 2: the second season (act 1 & 2)

This is the Caitlyn we see develop in act 1 of season 2, after the death of her mother and who I think we'll see for most/half of act 2 (I believe the seeds of her realizing she's becoming someone she doesn't like will form in act 2). Fuelled by grief, revenge and anger. This is the first time she's experienced true loss in her life and she does not cope with it well. She starts by blaming it on the actions of one person, Jinx, like her season 1 self would do, but subsequent attacks on Piltover lead to her generalizing Zaun and her empathy for them runs out. Violence is now her first option and she is more than willing to kill people (she was ready to blow that one gang account's head off during questioning even). Caitlyn 3: the second season (act 3) Completed Caitlyn

Now this is basically pure theory as I write this in the wait between act 1 and act 2. But, I believe this will be Caitlyn at the end of her character arc. Having realized the error of her ways, soul-searched, discovered Ambessa has been manipulating her, looked at her family legacy and its positive impact on Zaun (the filtration system she once weaponized) and concluded that her mother would not want her to go down this route. She has taken responsibility for herself and reconciled (see: had very rough and passionate reconciliation sex) with Vi. We do know that Cait and Vi will reconcile and be on the same side at least based on the trailers. She may have been confronted with the consequences of her decisions on ordinary people in Zaun near the end of act 2 and be horrified. Or just realize this naturally once she 'snaps out' of Caitlyn 2. This restores (most) of her season 1 empathy for the people of Zaun. I say most because as I allude to in the paragraph after this one, she isn't naïve like her season 1 self anymore, and knows now that while the people of Zaun should be respected as human beings and given the best chance possible at a safe, prosperous life like those in Piltover. There are elements in the undercity whom still seek to do harm (justified or not) and need to be treated with caution. It's not blind optimism or compassion, but it's the most a person can give in the real world, not the sheltered one she was raised in. This Caitlyn has the best of both previous iterations and is a Caitlyn who has confronted and (mostly) bested her demons. She has the hope and kind spirit of season 1 Cait, but the pragmatism and toughness of season 2 Cait. She is still willing to kill, but only if necessary, not at will. If confronted by another threat like Jinx, she won't hesitate to take the shot, much like Caitlyn 2, only now it isn't a decision made from anger or a desire for revenge, but dedication to protect as many people as possible like Caitlyn 1. She has managed to wrangle her emotions of grief and rage and learn from them. There may be a scene near the end to show this growth when Jinx inevitably appears and Cait's anger flares up again, only for Vi to assure her for one last time that she's got it, and Cait agrees to let her go fight Jinx on her own. Now, of course most of this is guess work! But, I think it would make sense from a narrative perspective for this to be Cait's arc. I don't believe the writers would want to have her just become a full on antagonist and end her story as a villain, it'd be immensely disappointing for the audience and not up to their standards. And I think this would be a very satisfying way to conclude her character development. (I'm also basing some of it based on her appearance in act 3 lmao)

[pickypikachu]

a tragedy in three parts

[agalychnisspranneusroseus]

Imagine you're Mr. Wu and your weird gay daughter runs away in tears after destroying some unespecified object while yelling about you ruining her life. Because you told her you'd be moving to another state. This is the last time you see your daughter in half a year, and when she comes back, she comes back... wrong. She's wearing a light leather armor, a fur-lined cape, and a green flower crown. She has two long scars, one alongside her spine and the other along her chest, the tissue around them covered in burn scars. Doctors say she shouldn't have survived. Doctors say she didn't. Yet she's right here, in front of you, hospital gown clinging to her small, fragile, trembling frame. She fidgets with her hands. Getting her to stay still has always been difficult, but now it seems impossible. She won't let go of her phone. She's always texting her two friends. When you take it away, she gets anxious. You always knew those damn phones cause kids to act weird, but your kid having a panic attack seems too extreme, even for her. Then again, she's always been odd. Nowadays, she wakes up crying and screaming almost every night, and you realize she's been stealing her phone from your bedside drawer every night to text her friends, returning it before you wake up. You catch her once and decide to give her that damn phone back. It's the only thing that calms her down, as if she were a baby with a pacifier. She spends her last weeks in LA clinging to her friends, having sleepovers and playing her weird board games with them. Everytime they drop her back at her house, there's an excessive amount of hugs and tears. But the moments when they call her, or when she leaves to meet with them, or when they show up at their door to pick her up... those are the only moments in which you see her happy. One of her friends, the rude and disobedient one, came back with a big scar on her face. She's been acting a lot nicer, though. The other one too. She acts a great deal more adult now. You doesn't know what happened or where your daughter went. She won't tell you. But you can tell this friendship is the only thing keeping her afloat right now. Maybe you know, deep down, that no one else would understand.

And then you decide to move anyway because fuck her amirite

[stagefoureddiediaz]

Eddie’s arc gonna be so so so good this season

The Chris stuff is going to hurt so bad and break me but healing is coming for them both and I’m expecting a Chris-tmas episode reunion of father and son

[ilikekidsshows]

Actually, yeah, that's clearly the difference between how I view Marinette's social-emotional skills and what others are saying: I think Marinette had poor social-emotional skills even before the retool.

The way I see it, Marinette has always acted like a coddled teen. There’s a reason so many of my examples of Marinette’s parents came from the pre-retool show, and why my description of Marinette as someone who can't handle stress, can't handle setbacks and considers her problems the most important problems, no matter how minor applies to Marinette's original characterization as well as the retooled Marinette.

Marinette used to do almost all of the stuff she does now, but to a lesser extent and she used to make up for it afterwards. Teenagers lean towards self-centeredness because their sense of self and identity is going through rapid development, but Marinette has always been very single-minded about this, and her poor skills in relating to others make her easily trample on other people's feelings. Of course, part of this was the original show's format of wanting to teach a lesson through Marinette's mistakes, but that's exactly what makes her relatable to kids with poor social-emotional skills; she's also learning.

Basically, being too preoccupied with herself has always been a weakness of Marinette’s; she has to see another person get upset before she realizes she did something to hurt them. The difference is that, before the retool, Marinette used to realize that she should make up for what she did wrong and then did so. After the retool Marinette’s reaction to her mistakes is to double down, make excuses or cry about what a terrible person she is and how bad she feels until she gets vindicated. The change in Marinette's character is in how much she thinks she should take responsibility for her mistakes.

Ever since the beginning, Marinette's gotten constant praise as Ladybug; everyone always tells her she’s the best, did everything right and is always correct about everything. At worst, her actions lead to “different consequences”. In addition to this, she has all the power and control in the hero team dynamics, making everyone else inferior to her. This has clearly gone to her head, so now she no longer sees her own mistakes as mistakes, because she’s the greatest Ladybug ever who can do no wrong and everyone else is just a pawn in her great master plans. She has no sense of accountability. She will over-blame herself when she gets caught messing up royally, but only until someone absolves her of guilt and then she takes no steps to avoid making that same mistake in the future, because she wasn't really at fault, she was told she wasn't.

Consider the Kagami bullying arc. In 'Ikari Gozen', Marinette accepts she was wrong about Kagami and had no right to interfere with her the way she did. She does go back to it briefly in 'Love Hunter' in a moment of weakness, but overall she accepts that sabotaging Kagami isn't right. If this story had happened post-retool, I have no doubt the conclusion to 'Ikari Gozen' would have been Marinette crying about how she's a horrible person and as bad as Chloé to Kagami, with Kagami saying something like: "You are much kinder than Chloé. You just love Adrien. In fact, clearly your love for Adrien is much deeper and purer than mine. I will gladly step down so that you can be with your soulmate."

Post-retool Marinette can’t be wrong about anything, so she never really accepts fault. She makes a big deal about how bad she feels, but only to people who will instantly appease, comfort and forgive her, and she never makes up for what she did wrong or even tries to avoid making the same mistakes. And that’s what makes her previously acceptable and understandable personal weaknesses into absolutely grating character flaws. The somewhat-coddled normal girl is now a spoiled brat and a terror boss, not because she lost her social skills, but because she lost her sense of accountability.

It's very ironic. The girl who whines about how she has too many responsibilities and she can't handle it accepts no responsibility for her own actions.

This is a longer one, sorry 😅

About that ask you replied to about Marinette's parents. I didn't grow up in a healthy household and i struggle to form a properly informed opinion on Marinette's parents in all this mess.

Cause clearly they are very loving, caring, and supportive, but they aren't perfect either. They are realistically human. They have blind spots, didnt actually RAISE her apparently when she does things wrong, and hardly give Marinette any boundaries or consequences to face, which now evolved into her neither being able to handle anything not going her way nor having to actually take people into consideration and go through with improving on the things she said she should.

Im pretty sure Marinette was a very friendly child who didn't cause too many problems, if at all, so now that she's a complicated teenager who actually needs some boundaries and discipline they dont know how to handle it. Thats the picture im getting. Not to mention that they don't know Marinette is Ladybug so they have no idea what's caused all these extreme changes in their daughter and how to accommodate to properly help her.

But in my eyes, without the whole Ladybug thing, this is still a pretty normal and realistic portrayal of a modern family, so Marinette is simply a normal ass kid. She's clearly spoiled to a solid degree and emotionally shielded the way most middle class kids from central Europe are. Just because her family isn't perfect doesn't it mean she's being abused or her parents are bad. For me, they are a realistic healthy family. Whatever faults her parents have are pretty common things parents do wrong.

But this now raises the question for me how exactly to go about Marinette's family. Obviously her parents didn't to everything right in their parenting, so those flaws of Marinette can be traced back to them while Marinette at the same time SHOULD normally STILL be asked to grow out of it the way any normal teenager should, it's just slightly more challenging.

But then I see discussions that take it way too far imo but I don't know where exactly to draw the line.

It is correct that Tom and Sabine for example seem to know very little about their daughter's friend group to the point that they just let Sabrina into Marinette's room. The common argument I see being raised here is that Sabine is neglective because she doesn't know that Sabrina isn't Marinette's friend.

Now this doesn't feel quite right to me. Marinette's parents seem to be pretty much unaware that their daughter was bullied in school which unfortunately isn't at all uncommon. When the parents are neither told by the child or the school, then how are they supposed to know? The most they seem to know is that Marinette has a hard time with Chloé, but I never had the impression that they know how serious this was. Marinette sure was never shown to ever voice any of that.

So Sabine thinking Sabrina is Marinette's friend is a fair enough assumption in my eyes. I remember back when I was 12-13, forming friendship in a collective class is alot easier when you're a kid. Kids just go with the flow like that and become friends in 10 seconds even if they aren't spending much time with each other directly. Forming connections tends gets more difficult as one grows older.

I don't think at that age parents can be faulted for not keeping track of all their kid's friendships. Sabrina running up to Sabine and claiming she's Marinette's friend and Sabine believing her is honestly nothing too special.

What I take issue with, though, is that Sabine just let Sabrina go into Marinette's room ALONE. That a parent, imo, truly shouldn't do.

And yet, one still wouldn't call her a BAD parent for that, right? It's very flawed, but obviously Marinette also continues to rely on her parents doing that with the amount of times Alya just gets to come and go however she please, even with Marinette not being there, despite Marinette knowing Alya merely year at this point. Way less than Sabrina for example.

There is this persistent grey area here that I can't quite place. Marinette's parents are very obviously very trusting, but the way the show portrays it seems to border on neglective imo, but it's based in their daughter just getting free reign most of the time so Marinette can do shit in her room and leave for long periods of time for example that parents should normally check on their kids for.

So, at the same time, is it actually neglect? Thanks to being Ladybug, it is Marinette who has pulled more and more away from her parents and since season 4 is doing so to honestly very unnecessary degrees. There is little reason for why Marinette constantly locks herself and Alya into her room and doesn't spend much time with her parents when all that Marinette is doing in there is panicking and not doing something actually productive most of the time anyway. You may as well just spend time with your parents instead of crying to Alya that you supposedly CANT (while taking over Alya's life and being the actual reason why SHE cant)

Teenagers at Marinette's age starting to pull away from their parents is nothing uncommon. So I'm pretty sure that's just how it looks like for her parents. Marinette is starting to grow up and doesn't prioritize spending time or sharing her life with them as much anymore.

Can't pretend like that's not a sad truth parents have to deal with, so the kid's friends are trusted by the parents to know their kid in ways they don't anymore.

Marinette has very loving and caring parents who don't push her to involve them or share what she doesn't want to. Now here is the question. While this is neglective to a degree and Marinette does seem to be affected badly by it, is this necessarily something her parents are doing objectively WRONG? From their perspective, their daughter is growing up and so busy that they aren't much of a priority in her life. She's pulling more and more away and her parents try to adjust to that supportively without being given context as any parent must.

Clearly the created distance has Marinette now incorrectly believe that her parents aren't actually a real support system anymore, the way Marinette didnt even try to reach out in Kwamis Choice and her thinking she has lost EVERYTHING at the end of season 4 and then proceeding to act like she doesn't think she truly has anyone or anything in season 5 too.

Now, is Marinette thinking that she has NOTHING at the end of season 4, and still seeming to think so in season 5, something her parents failed at teaching her better?

When a kid starts pulling away from their supportive family, because they are so used to having them, and ends up convincing themselves that their parents dont count anymore as support because it isnt as perfect and easy as they'd like, is this a failure of the parents for not sitting their child down to remind them that the kid isn't the emotional equivalent of an orphan now the moment they have to do something alone?

Or is this simply a normal thing a teenager has to realize on their own? That just because the loving parents aren't a perfect support system anymore, doesn't it mean the kid just gets to disregard them fully as an option the way Marinette constantly does?

Because, well, this IS what it constantly feels like for me when it comes to Marinette.

When Marinette takes offense with her parents not unconditionally believing her all the time, is it really always her parents fault for not having raised her to handle push back better, or is it also just a natural part of growing up that you have to get over yourself and realize that your parents too need context for the situations you're in (e.g. Adoration) because growing up means you're parents shouldn't just handwave all the accountability away you potentially have to take now because you're not an 8 year old anymore and capable of genuine wrongdoing?

Yes, her parents definitely failed a solid bit in regards of leaving Marinette emotionally immature and unprepared when it comes to pushback, criticism, or considerations of others.

But to what degree are her parents actually WRONG in wanting Marinette to learn it for herself now because that's normally how it done?

Do her parents REALLY have to sit her 14-15 year old ass down and teach her that other people have feelings and lives of their own? That reality exists outside of her head and feelings? Or should a teenager be expected to learn that themselves, especially one that's so busy and involved in everything as Marinette? Cause it actually seems to me that her being Ladybug caused her stunted development in this regard. Because being Ladybug always serves as the right excuse to always demand and expect the others to do the learning cause she's "too stressed" and "too justified as leader who doesn't owe anyone anything, but is owed everything herself cause she says so".

It's seems that it's rather that being Ladybug caused the damage in Marinette's development which her parent can't know about, and not that her parents are particularly failing by not holding their daughter's hand all through growing up even more to spoon-feed her every bit of development she should grow into now to make sure its as pleasant and easy as possible?

In my opinion, from teenage age onwards it's not the parents' job to tell their children at any uncomfortable or challenging occasion what's right and wrong and do all the work in the child's personal development into a young adult. And isn't that what Marinette's parents are being criticised for anyway? That they don't let their daughter face disappointment, discipline, and struggles because it makes her upset? But now they are in the wrong for wanting to have their daughter learn and figure things out in their own, but fully intend on always being there for her in every way when she needs it?

There definitely IS a complicated grey area here where these two parenting styles badly overlapped and caused problems.

Tom and Sabine DO give Marinette way too much free reign cause it badly clashes with how little discipline, rules, boundaries, and consideration she was raised to actually having to oblige to as part of living with other people.

Marinette was not well prepared for the freedom she now has, but looking at it in general, the problem seems much more to be Marinette being Ladybug, and not necessarily that she's a teenager who lacks refined emotional intelligence because she grew up shielded and cuddled. If Marinette had a normal life, she would have some more trouble growing out of it, but it's not like her parents ruined her.

I think it's that Marinette is Ladybug that is to blame here. Because that's how she was put in a position where she learned that she just needs to stomp her foot, scream, cry, or use her titel to make it so that it's always everyone else who has to do the learning and not her. Marinette's concerning entitlement grew through being Ladybug and not tolerating anything but having all the support, resources, and everyone beneath her in the hierarchy who must submit to her will or else she cant function.

Whatever problems her parents caused in her upbringing should have been easy enough to grow out of. It's LADYBUG who stunted that development because Marinette learned that she has the option to just demand that everyone has to cater to her instead. That is not her parents fault, but it always leaves me at the same problem of not knowing how to properly dissect and discuss what blame Tom and Sabine objectively have in this.

---

This is a very insightful and interesting essay, Anon. When it comes to Marinette’s parents, it's really hard to call them “bad parents”, because they're really good at many things that come to parenting. They're supportive, they respect Marinette's space and privacy, they believe in her ability to handle herself and Marinette clearly feels safe with them. And you're also right that it's extremely difficult for them to guide Marinette learning social-emotional skills now that she's a willful teenager and wouldn't be receptive to her parents “correcting her behavior” if they even knew there was something to correct.

I also don't think Marinette's parents can see all the issues with Marinette’s conduct. She is a very “easy” child; she's polite, she respects authority and doesn't get into purposeful mischief. She's the exact kind of child adults don't worry about, so they don't have to constantly keep an eye on her. Especially since a lot of her problems come to the forefront as Ladybug, a whole new part of her life her parents aren’t involved in.

The thing here is that 14-year-olds not knowing that other people have feelings or how to deal with disappointments is exactly why early childhood education is now emphasizing the teaching of these skills so much. For a long time, there was a belief that kids learn social-emotional skills naturally and there's no need to purposefully teach them, because kids will “get it” when they're “old enough to understand”. Except that we have now discovered that they don't, in fact, just naturally “get it”. These skills need to be taught in early childhood, starting from simple ideas like “your friend is crying because you took their toy, don’t do that again” and moving up from there. And the only way to teach these things in a purposeful way is to put your small kids with other small kids and let them do small kid things, even if it results in someone ending up crying, especially if someone ends up crying, because learning to deal with your own emotional responses and other people having emotional reactions to your actions is, in fact, an essential life and relationship skill. The theory of mind (the understanding that other people have thoughts and feelings that can differ from your own) is something that preschoolers are expected to learn and should get support in learning if they don't.

I’m saying Marinette should already know this stuff. Her parents and possible kindergarten teacher should have taught her almost a decade ago.

However, I don’t disagree with your assertion that being Ladybug is why these common problems with Marinette’s conduct are such a big issue for her relationships now. Because her upbringing neglected to teach her essential social-emotional skills, and she’s been shoved into a position of not just power, but absolute power where no one is in a position to question her, she’s now a nightmare boss who expects everyone else to be fully committed to making the broken system she’s running run smoothly while she comes up with some nonsense project to keep busy so that she has the excuse to take her frustrations out on everyone beneath her.

If Marinette was just constantly ditching her friends so that she could do something relating to her love quest, I’m pretty sure the most severe, realistic consequences for her friends would just be them thinking she doesn’t want to hang out, feeling bummed and no longer inviting her. Marinette being in a position of leadership both exacerbates her social-emotional ineptitude and makes its consequences more severe, because now they’re facing dangerous situations and the leadership only doesn’t care if they get hurt, but sometimes actively hurts them for the sake of achieving some other goal in the future.

We must consider that Marinette has been Ladybug for only a year, while her parents have raised her since birth. Anything being Ladybug has taught Marinette was learned on the basis her parents gave her. I don’t think this is an either-or situation. Now that she's an independent teenager, of course her parents expect her to pull away, be private and figure things out on her own. What Marinette is doing wrong now is on her, because she's the one taking on all these responsibilities, leaving others in the dark, not consulting anyone who doesn't just appease her and making decisions for others. However, this being her go-to approach shows us that her parents failed her in the past.

I think Marinette's parents are doing everything right for an older child, but I also think they were very out of their depth when Marinette was a small child. She clearly wasn't taught this stuff that has to be taught at an early age because she's now a teenager and seems to have no clue how interpersonal relationships work. Of course she's still too young to understand everything, especially romance, but she lacks basic understanding of mutual friendship as well. It just really feels like Marinette's parents have never had any expectations for her, even when she was a small child throwing a fit when she didn't get her way.

[finnitesimal]

Need to break up so Takiishi can realize something if he realizes something at all ghffhgdss

Divorce Wins Again

[waywardsalt]

bc its been bouncing around in my head i think another little tiny grievance i had with totk is that i got to the end and just felt a sense of ‘well what the hell was that all for then’

[fatedroses]

Your Avendurer! Zenos comics are always so good, and I love how you write him. The touch about him being functionally doomed to immortality is the perfect level of extra spice on top, too. Imo it's the perfect motivation for him to genuinely try to better himself as a person.

Thank you! Tbh the concept has had a hold on my brain since the end of Endwalker, and I'm glad you really enjoy it ^-^

It’s the subtle character development he’s gotten over the course of the story and the potential he has that makes me adore writing Adventurer!Zenos and the journey he has in turn of following the WoL's (Meteor, in my cases) footsteps.

Making himself immortal is actually the main inspiration behind it too, it's a consequence that self-sabotaged his original goal. Maybe eventually becoming a wake up for him that Alisaie was absolutely right and that he may still have an opportunity to not doom himself to being alone forever.

It's actually why I also made him a tank too, having him turn away from being "the man who was willing to destroy the world for his own chase of his desires" to him being willing to throw himself in and to help and protect others even at the cost of himself for a time, a thought that has stuck with me since the theory of him saving WoL with the remote crossed my mind.

[momotonescreaming]

thinking about a fic where Dustin pulls the typical fandom trope of barging into Steve's house without knocking, shouting and complaining like an asshole - only to come face to face with Steve's parents

[arthurtaylorlester]

i just know that parker is watching arthur's shenanigans via kayne or something in the dark world, and he doesnt know arthur has a magical inside voice constantly shouting very good, but very badly timed purple prose directly into his neurons and just thinks arthur went insane (was always insane?) and killed him intentionally.

[moonilit]

Hironobu Sakaguchi: im going to creat a narrative driven franchise that will paint beautiful words and emotions, themes that make people wonder, what is humanity place in this universe, their loses, their fates, their moralities

Square Enix: so we put a coin in this and it give us money? *shake violently* come on! Give us millions!

[naranjapetrificada]

not me thinking about how Stede thinks he ruined Ed when even if they never saw each other again after episode 10, their connection showed Ed what love could feel like and marked a watershed in how he'll think about the possibilities of life going forward

[viderose]

he’s annoying, i don’t like him (he hasn’t given me as much attention lately)