#i love naruto as much as i hate it

[opens-up-4-nobody]

Sorry if I'm bad at phrasing this but: Do you think that Kishimoto lost sight of what the series was supposed to be about, or was it intentional from the start? Do you think it's ironic that the characters in Naruto forget about all of they worked for and become players in this faulty system? Have you ever tried to justify the choices made by Kishimoto by thinking about this as a series that was made to intentionally make us think about how radicalized children grow up to be complacent adults?

Like. I know that it is very likely that the author just couldn't figure out a way to make this all better so he just slapped together an ending. But also. It feels very real to me, but maybe I'm just trying to take this too seriously.

So I tried to watch naruto in high school and hated it. So I have no naruto nostalgia and watched everything as a 24-26yo adult choosing to take it all way too seriously bc that's more fun for me. I think my perspective is a lot different from everyone who grew up watching the show with an underdeveloped brain.

So I don't think I've ever tried to justify the choices kishimoto made in the story because I understand how messy and flawed it is. I find naruto as a story, profoundly confused about what it's trying to say because of how it treats the village structure, how it doesn't end with shippuden and a promis to do better, and how we return to violence in boruto.

I can't tell if kishimoto is a bad writer or if it's just the nature of long form Shonen that makes it impossible to tell a coherent story when you have to keep going and going and going. So there's the inconsistencies and then there are the huge thematic issues, which become so blinding with boruto that I thought it was on purpose. I find it maddening that there was effectively no reason for naruto and sasuke to explode eachothers arms past incapacitating eachother. Like I thought it was supposed to me: they can't make hand symbols anymore so they're loosing this mechanism for violence and that's fine because tomorrow they won't need it anymore. But no, naruto just grows a cursed hashirama arm and continues the violence because the world doesn't change enough. And there could be an interesting story there: naruto is being drained by his job, he's given and he's given and now he's a shell of himself bc the village takes and takes and he never had his catharsis, no one but iruka ever apologized to him, everyone just moved on and decided things were better no. They never talked about the pain. So now a new generation glorifies the violence of the past, the shinobi structure is still there. Nothing much changed. So the story should be boruto helping his dad wake up to the fact that things are still fucked, helping his dad heal bc he's a lovely emotionally intelligent boy, and then naruto makes the changes he should have made from the start. I think boruto should be a story where naruto's son says "fuck the ninja way" and he's right

So, ultimately in the canon plot of naruto: its messy but you can still find the themes and make them make sense if you try. When you get to boruto things become so hard to understand because 1) I think the authors changed? and 2) it's routed in nostalgia and fandom reverence for the ninja way.

[cynicallyneutral]

naruto: this one’s for u babe *misses*

[atoriv-art]

simpler days

[eli6abesxo]

Controversial take, but as somebody who has recently finished all of Naruto and Naruto Shippuden for the second time, the shows are only actually good, at least from a story perspective, if you perceive them as an epic love story between Naruto and Sasuke.

[yuripira4e]

Shout out to the not quite middle aged man yaoi ships that get so underrated because despite the deep connection, unending loyalty and love for each other, and scenes upon scenes of them being each others rock, partner, and family, the fact that one of them is a “joke” character and not conventionally attractive makes it so that fans, even queer ones, don’t see their relationship as meaningful and even take their genuine interactions as jokes.

+bonus parallel

Their silly little families

[sasukebabygirl]

words cannot describe the absolute love i have for this official art.

the way sasuke is looking at naruto while naruto has his eyes closed accompanied by his soft little smile. the pure love and adoration in sasukes eyes. and narutos bright grin radiating happiness.

little angels together even in the afterlife just how naruto wanted. they have never done anything wrong in their lives ever.

[hiraeff]

I finished To lose is to gain and now I don’t know what to do with my life anymore -

I can’t wait for part 2 !! I have so many questions and speculation on what’s going to happen next hhh -

Thank u @hazardous-who for this master piece 😭 I’m going to go and read among ice and snow as I’ve heard it’s also really really good 😳😳😳

I can see a lot of flaws with this drawing but I still like it this way hehe - now I’m gonna draw more from this fix to fill in the void

[jibanyans-chocobar]

Watching Naruto Shippuden's first filler arc atm and I uh. Have some questions even though I know none of this is canon

- Why is Asuma denying that he has something going on with Kurenai like DUDE. We know YOUR OLD TEAM KNOWS Kakashi knows EVERYONE KNOWS

- What the heck is wrong with Sora (/gen like what is wrong with him is he okay)

- Why are the bad guys surfing on graves. Just. Why

- Fym Asuma was part of a 12 people (if i remember correctly) squad made to protect the feudal lord or something like that

- Why did Naruto basically say "I'M NOT GAY" to Sai out of nowhere? Like I mean I get why but did he really have to say that "he doesn't go that way" lies lies LIES

- Why did they animate one of the best openings in anime history EVER for a freaking FILLER ARC (and it happens again. And also happens with endings. Like. Diver or Broken Youth or U Can Do It orrrr idk what else)

(Spoiler warning under the cut for the arc that follows this one)

- Is this a filler arc to just say "oh look at Asuma he's so cool he was part of that organization and stuff LOOK AT HIM AND START LIKING HIM because we're about to kill him" or what

[moldy-flowers]

The interesting experience of being pro Sasuke, anti konoha, pro tobirama, anti Naruto ending, pro Sasusaku, anti Itachi, pro Sakura, anti SasuNaru, pro Tobirama×Izuna, anti Madara, pro karin, anti Orochimaru, pro Uchiha and anti Hashirama. And also as much as I hate the guy danzo was kind of hot when he was younger...

[lilacxquartz]

haha….. d-do i have a type

[rainybyday]

How did my Warring State era time travel au became a plotical war, cus, like, my main point of conflic what preventing the future like any good time travel ever. And yet I have:

Political war with Senju and Uchiha (and maybe Hatake)

Actual war

The Elders of those two clans (Hatakes will have a diff system) might do a coup because their clan leaders inaction of what they deemed the approperat action for bastard children

The Daimyo will get involved because the issuse of teh Senju and Uchiha are bleeding to another clan that is known to have civilians in their clan from differnet lands, so if Hatake's are involed, so will Daimyo (So THE political war)

Trying not to make a butterfly effect

The inner conflic with Team Seven and their relationships with each other

Creating Konoha without fucking it up

Zetsu

The list is growing as I write, which, is both sad and fantastic because of what each plot point will bring to this au

[thesauce8]

i feel like people forget sasuke was literally 16/17 in shippuden

its not like naruto deserved that hardship but i cant help but feel sasuke does deserve that type of love despite his wrongdoings. i just feel so bad for him yk.

his entire clan was massacred by the person he looked up to most. then that person psychologically tortures him, forcing him to watch them all die over and over and over. all while hes seven years old. hes told he was spared because hes so weak it wasnt even worth it and is encouraged to seek revenge and harness his hate.

so naturally thats what he does.

then when hes finally forming bonds and straying from the path of hate, itachi comes back and tortures him *again* at the age of 13. this erases all his well earned progress and since he isnt given resources to help with that mental trauma, he regresses. i love kakashi but leaving sasuke alone was really dumb. even so, he was reconsidering leaving until the sound 4 came and kicked his ass. he leaves and becomes an apprentice to this pretty evil dude and its kinda a downward spiral from there.

when he finally kills the person hes been told to hate all these years, he learns that that person was actually his last living family member who truly loved him and that the government of his village was responsible for the massacre of his family. and throughout all this hes only 16/17.

poor guy didnt really stand a chance. im really glad naruto stuck around for him. saying he didnt deserve it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[im-still-watching-anime]

third hokage: we hid who your parents were to protect you, we couldn’t let anyone find out the fourth hokage was your father

naruto, spitting image of the fourth hokage and kushina:

[jaguarys]

For the record I don't think the Sannin had some sort of dramatic falling out. I think they grew apart in a way that they almost didn't notice. I think they found different interests, different people, and no matter how much they told themselves they were still as close as they'd always been they weren't. And I think it was a process of continually realizing these people aren't who you idealized in your mind; that they are maybe, kind of, sort of bad people; that they have done things you can't ignore, and that, maybe, they are your enemies. But there's no closure there. There's no sense of relief to be gained. Because you love them. You love them more than anyone in the world–– more than your students, more than your spouse, more than your family, more than your village. They know more about you than anyone ever will or ever could. They hold pieces of you, not only in your knowledge, not only in your youth, but in your soul, because they are one-third of it. You know them more, and less, than anyone could, and definitely more than you should

[orcelito]

I've been working on Finally finishing Naruto Shippuden (after being a Naruto fan for nearly 15 years), & I just finished episode 420. And I have some THOUGHTS about the "Naruto is the reincarnation of Ashura" thing. This started as just me rambling for my normal liveblog posting, but I had a LOT of thoughts about this actually, so I am presenting them to u all Now.

So. Naruto meeting the Sage of Six Paths! Cool!!! I'm finally learning about Naruto being the reincarnation of Ashura, which... honestly is not a choice that I like very much. Narratively speaking, I mean. The Point of Naruto's journey was that he was the underdog, the bottom of his class, the orphan that everyone hated and made fun of. Through hard work and perseverance, he managed to drag himself from being a complete social outcast to someone generally really loved and respected. That's compelling!!! It means a lot!!!

But then the show is like. "Oh...actually, he's the son of the fourth hokage. And Also, he's the reincarnation of the son of the literal creator of ninshuu aka the precursor of modern ninjutsu." I mind him being Minato's son less as a narrative choice (for reasons I will get into shortly), but making him Ashura's reincarnation?? I've got Several things that bug me about that.

So First, for him being Minato's son. It's not like that's ever Actually given him any sort of status (since most people don't know), & Minato was also kind of just a random guy?? Just incredibly skilled, enough so to become the 4th hokage. And then there's also Kushina, descended from a very successful and very Feared clan that ended up almost entirely killed bc of that fear. Naruto being an Uzumaki means great power, huge chakra reserves (not even including the extra chakra he gets from Kurama), & some innate skills (that Naruto mostly didn't inherit, but one can play pretend sometimes). BUT ALSO, they were almost entirely killed off. He's a survivor of his clan's genocide that happened well before he was even born, and he doesn't even REALIZE it yet. So even though being Minato's son means he's the son of a very influential person, it doesn't give him the same leverage as being a Senju or Uchiha would. And the clan he Does belong to bc of Kushina does not give him status either, bc they're almost all fuckin Dead. And we know that Minato is a Namikaze, but as for what that actually *means*.... it's basically nonexistent. There is no mention of a Namikaze clan. Minato was just a prodigy in his own right.

SO.... All that is to say that while appending Naruto's orphan story with a "well, Actually, his parents were very powerful and well respected" does discount it a little bit, it's still not Especially unique in terms of what other people in their world may experience (there are other descendants of current and/or former kage + Many other powerful clans running around) OR in the benefits that it gives him (essentially nothing, outside of his physical strength and the inheritance of Kurama himself)(which inheriting Kurama did grant him access to IMMENSE power, but it also was the source of So Much of his suffering growing up, so I think it balances out).

The "reincarnation of Ashura, son of the Sage of Six Paths" thing tho... that one really kinda does. At that point, Naruto is no longer just the orphaned son of two respected shinobi & the current jinchuuriki of the Kyuubi (something special, but not entirely original, given that there are Other jinchuuriki who are descendants of powerful shinobi). He is now something that NO ONE ELSE ALIVE can be. It is saying that He, above Everyone Else, is special in this way. Outside of Sasuke lol, but I'll touch on that in a moment.

It just feels kinda cheap. It's cool I guess, but at this point it feels like we've completely lost the Plucky Orphan who works hard to overcome his circumstances plot. It's saying that he was Always one of a kind, he was Always destined to become Someone Special (or that he was, in fact, special the whole time). It removes the importance of his hard work in the equation. It makes it so that this is no longer something he earned for himself, but rather something that was a Given, since he is, of course, Ashura's reincarnation.

Cheap. It's cheap. And I don't like it.

Then we get into Sasuke being the reincarnation of Indra. Which I haven't gotten to that yet in the show, but I know from seeing it around. I do enjoy the sun and moon aesthetic between Naruto and Sasuke (so SO much, in fact), but. Making Sasuke the reincarnation of the Other son of the Sage of Six Paths is... frustrating? In several ways. There is of course the fact that Naruto and Sasuke have such extremely gay vibes (and Always Have), so making them the reincarnations of brothers so late in the story feels like an insult to anyone who reads their relationship in that way. Which to be fair, we do see Naruto mention at a few points that he thinks of Sasuke like a brother, but it's only a few points + feels like a kind of narrative cop-out. Sasuke himself said he doesn't think of Naruto in that way (though that could also be his self-denial speaking & it could change. Haven't gotten that far yet.), & I think there are much better choices for Naruto's "brother" figure (primarily Iruka, but people like Killer Bee and any of the other konoha 12 would be fitting too). Personally, it feels like Naruto was trying to put a name to his very strong feelings for Sasuke, & since he doesn't realize being gay is an option (since Kishimoto is clearly homophobic & made this ninja society to reflect that), he settled on Brother. But Sasuke is like "what the fuck? No, my only brother is Itachi." Instead, Sasuke has called Naruto his best friend. Which also doesn't fully encompass their relationship, but it's still closer than Brother.

So here we are, Kishimoto saying around 555 episodes into the plot (only 80 more to go) that they're actually the reincarnations of brothers. And not just any brothers. THE sons of the Sage of Six Paths. Incredibly influential, incredibly powerful, two sides of the same coin and very historically significant figures. Sasuke always had the "descended from an elite, yet disgraced clan" thing going for him, so in my opinion it doesn't hold the same kind of insult to his story that it does for Naruto. But it still feels like an insult to THEIR story.

Naruto and Sasuke were just two orphan boys. Their moms were best friends, but they didn't know that. They died when they were too young. But Naruto and Sasuke still gravitated towards one another. Understood each other like no one else. And got on each other's nerves like no one else. But that irritation stemmed from their genuine admiration of each other. They wanted to be able to beat each other. They became Rivals. And it was on their own terms. No one else pushed them together. Outside of them ending up on the same team, their entire relationship was fueled by their recognition of one another, Jealousy of one another, and the simple enjoyment of being around one another. They were the ones to decide the importance of their relationship. Sasuke recognizing Naruto as his closest friend & thus thinking he was the one he had to cut off to achieve power, and Naruto recognizing Sasuke as his first peer that acknowledged him, a precious bond he finally made, and thus someone he had to cling to FIERCELY. That was all them.

But here we are. They're a reincarnated set. The sun and the moon, but Officially. One could say soulmates in a way, in a non-romantic kind of context (considering the first iteration was a pair of brothers). While this is cool from a story standpoint, it really takes some significance away from their relationship to me. It makes it less of something they chose for themselves and more of a given. Pretty much just like Naruto being Ashura's reincarnation cheapens his own story, it cheapens their relationship too.

I dont want a story about two boys who were destined to be important to each other!!!! I want a story about two orphans who just happened to become important to one another thru a series of coincidences and personal choices. In that way, their relationship gains greater gravity bc it's born from their own hearts Alone. It's Naruto moving mountains for the sake of this boy he loves, and it's Sasuke finally coming back around bc of the force of Naruto's dedication. It means so much more than the implication that they were always meant to be a pair. So I really don't like this narrative choice.

[batsplat]

Oh i also love how you seem to be a Naruto and untamed fan ( do you share thoughts on those too)

I am a fan of many things! including very much those two things! I'm always happy to share my thoughts, even though I never really have on this account! naruto I was first a fan of like... when I was... uh, maybe six or seven years old? one of those things you just glomp onto, like do you EVER get over the fictional media you create original characters for as an eight year old to play out convoluted storylines with your friends?? obviously not. I had one of those headbands with the crossed out symbol outlaw-style and, like, a bag that's the gaara sand gourd, so proper edge lord eight year old stuff. (I do feel like gaara got insane prop in my friend group, he was definitely the most popular character. like my best friend was playing a very obvious gaara-expy. I was also big on temari as I too was the token girl). anyway say what you will about how 'good' that series is, the character design does go CRAZY like it's just banger after banger concept. even shippuden, where I'm deeply meh about most of the actual story, introduces much of the akatsuki and they're all just. such banger characters. luv them. great for fic too, like there's so much to explore in that world that canon did.... maybe not do so.....

the untamed I've also now been into for a while!! 2020 I think I got into it? watched the show, read the book, watched most of the animated show, have also read the other books by the author... the specific characters I'm into are. uh. divisive in certain corners of fandom, and I have seen plenty from the trenches of the discourse. but the actual source material slaps! I'll defo revisit it when I have the time... also my gateway into gay chinese webnovels which was like, a great choice, a lot of stuff I kinda wish I was getting from canonically gay characters in western media. actual development of the relationship! it might be a romance but it's not all romance! moral ambiguity! high stakes! I'm still working my way through jwqs, which is very very very long but is like... lesbian political drama... the main character pretending to be a man and getting herself married to the daughter of the emperor, as she gradually goes about destroying that family from the inside... but she realises she cares about the princess but she's lost herself in this revenge quest so she's like 'I will destroy your entire family but until then I will dedicate myself to your happiness until I do'... LIKE it's such a good time!! I want fifty million stories with similar vibes! ugh