#i both love and hate their scenes together idk i hate conflict but i love seeing their interactions i guess?

[cerealbishh]

"I think Maria represents sort of the purity of love and, I believe, is the more grounded character of the story and Autumn is the total opposite, so it's like seeing these two forces kind of meet each other and this other grounded force not knowing what to do with this creature! And it's like 'I don't know how to relate to this!' and it could be quite... unsettling for her. (...) Yeah, but I had so much fun shooting those scenes! I mean, I had a blast shooting with Imogen." - Isa on the Maria/Autumn dynamic and shooting with Immy(x)

[squidthoughts]

collected thoughts on the creloise matter (Big And Detailed Spoilers Ahead):

if it’s dual character assassination, it’s dual character assassination and irredeemable and frankly uninteresting and unfortunately the show becomes unwatchable for me personally. if it’s purposeful setup? it’s bloody brilliant. i mean it could actually be bloody brilliant. there are a few lines that feel very purposeful: pen’s “did you ever truly like her?” and the moment with cress and her mother when cress protests being cruel to the btons. both of which come after the creloise breakup and, you know, the uhhhh cessation of scenes together. creloise was dead. there was no reason to continue to examine the corpse. unless it wasn’t truly dead. ok, so there is now incredible potential in the CreloiseSituation(tm).

they hate each other. perfect! cressida was suffering all season and eloise was a truly terrible friend - i mean, comically selfish and villainous - that is to say, cressida’s actions (antagonistic as they were) were explained and justified within the narrative and eloise’s were not. ok! that’s fine. in the past, cress has been the unjustifiably cruel one. if anything, they are now on equal footing in terms of illogically hurting each other. so, they hate each other. which just means their growing back together could be that much more satisfying.

eloise’s choices didn’t make sense. they just…don’t. if her arc this season was to show her growth separate from pen, and it ends with nothing mattering to her but pen, it’s just nonsensical. (dont get me wrong- i’m glad they made up! their friendship is a core pillar of the show! but taking a season of development apart and introducing new dynamics into eloise’s life only to end her precisely where she was in season ONE is just…huh??) that is, unless elosie’s decisions don’t make sense YET. unless the point of her abandonment of a friend IS the abandonment. unless this is precisely the base a following season would need to portray el from a starting position of moral inferiority- a facet of her character not yet explored.

creloise both out of mayfair now. coincidence? well…maybe! i guess! but also, outside the set and setting of society. idk, that just screams landscape of possibility to me.

they’re both on the cusp of substantial development! cressida at rrrrock bottom and eloise striving to find experience and purpose. we’ve never seen cress this low and tortured or el this alone and unsure. idk. parallels.

nothing that made us love them so much in the first place has changed. they’re still mirrors. they’re still unflinchingly honest with each other - often the only ones who are. they’re still (deliciously) (occasionally) mean. the foundations are still there. and tbh, if all of this was purposeful, there is SO much conflict and strife between them that i actually really love it. the angst! the tension! the possible banter! eloise abandoned cress at the worst possible time in her life and cress betrayed eloise (out of desperation but facts are facts) and neither of them got an explanation. and for a summer and a season they were very much alone together and enjoying each other and the betrayals sting because the friendship mattered in the first place. and that broken dynamic is just. so yummy. and the hate is there because the embarrassment is there and the embarrassment is there because….i liked you. and you burned me. and i cant believe i was stupid enough to like you. but i did like you, i did.

also, i’m sure the showrunners were understandably wary about how the audience would react to cressida this season. up until now, she’s been a glorified extra; the personality-less stereotype of the loveless, callous debutante bridgerton’s grand love stories exist to subvert. in s1 she was a joke (daphne and simon laughing about her scripted flirting) and in s2 she was the hopeless and petty mean girl. there was no reason for the audience to like her, because she was hardly a character and certainly not a person. i imagine suddenly linking her to everyone’s fan favorite eloise was seen as a huge risk— in case of a negative reaction, cress could hardly be established as a romantic prospect as well, possibly guaranteeing a large portion of screentime to someone the audiences don’t even like. creators obviously shouldn’t feel the urge to cater to an audience’s whims of how they think a story should go - this would be very bad!! - but i do think the extreme outpouring of appreciation for cress this season might enable the writers to utilize her more in the future. she’s a real character now with depth and her story has established loyalty in fans- narratively there is freedom there for some satisfying payoffs.

all this to say, this season reduced my expectations to not quite zero, but somewhere around one. the finale was crowded and unfocused and more than a few things just did not make sense and the queer rep felt very sudden and trite - for shock value, practically - and we were forced to watch creloise hacked to pieces….but, i maintain, if it was all purposeful….idk. i personally don’t think all hope is lost.

[starry-eyed-steve]

What do you have against Ronance? It's clear Robin was attracted to Nancy as well as Vickie. Not only that, she jumped off a boat into monster-water for her, for goodness' sake. It's a bad-faith argument to say that people don't ship Vickie with Robin because she's a bisexual sapphic woman. Greatwise/Will and Gareth is not comparable in the slightest as that is a crack ship that never interacted. We DID have scenes with Robin and Vickie, though few.

And I'm gonna be So For Real, more people would ship Rovickie if Ronance was not there. People would devour those crumbs. But why choose crumbs, when you have a potential meal we spent a whole season with?

Okay, so this is really long, I'm sorry this took way too much time. I know I went a bit overboard. If there are any errors, please ignore lmao. Thank you for sending me an ask for a discussion. I also want to preface that I don't hate Nancy as a character, I don't like how she is written in certain situations and that the show overlooks mistakes she makes, and by pointing out those mistakes on her behalf is not me hating on her. Overall, I think she deserves better than what she is given both in the show and fandom.

First things first, Robin didn't jump into the water for Nancy. It was a delayed response after seeing her best friend being dragged under water. She's not as brave as Nancy. If we would apply the same logic, then Eddie would have jumped for Robin because he's in love with her. So no Robin jumped for Steve and should have been the first to do so, but because that scene was used for Stancy later (Eddie giving the speech to Steve in the woods) it had to be Nancy in that instance. It's really bothering me that this scene is so misread because people just don't get Robin's character. Who would you jump for, your best friend you know better than yourself or the girl you met a day ago?

The whole premise of Ronance (platonic or romantic) in s4 was so ooc for Robin, s3 Robin would have never acted the way like s4 Robin did. And I think that has something to do with what I said in the other post. We don't have enough time. There is no conflict when different groups of people come together because the show needs everyone to get along to save the world, and they couldn't elaborate on complex feelings a person might have towards others. So the show made Robin throw herself at Nancy's feet, despite thinking not too highly about her a season prior. Same with Steddie, the OG script was about how Steve and Eddie didn't get along first but it was cut out because there is no time to proper develop new relationships, even tho it would be more interesting. But again, that would mean the show would have to give us more episodes, which is unfortunately not the case.

So you see, I just don't think Robin would have acted the way she did around Nancy based on the character traits she displayed in s3. Furthermore, I will bring up Steve, which is a sensitive topic when it comes to Ronance. I don't want to come off as someone who in general makes a lesbian/sapphic relationship about a man's feelings, however because Steve has history with both girls I can't ignore him because Robin wouldn't either.

A little bit of background of Robin prior to meeting Nancy:

In s3, Robin couldn't stand Steve, and later, we found out why. It had mostly to do with her crush, Tammy Thompson, who had only eyes for him. Yeah, he was obnoxious, and Robin couldn't stand his smugness and arrogance, but the main reason was Tammy and her being kinda jealous of Steve in general because he had no problems fitting in. So she held on to this grudge against Steve for maybe even years. That tells us she doesn't forget when someone has wronged her and maybe, to an extent, her friends. Like she seems to be a person who has your back, no matter what.

Idk if you consider Rebel Robin as canon (I mean Maya narrated the podcast soo I mostly view it that way) but before Barb was Nancy's bff, she was close with Robin and later ditched her for Nancy. That in itself would leave a bad taste in Robin's mouth, and I guess she wouldn't be Nancy's biggest fan. Maybe that's why the priss comment in s3. Again, she had no problem disliking Steve because her crush liked him, but then she does an 180 with Nancy despite Barb being her actual friend leaving her for Nancy. Losing a friend to another person is much worse than a crush you never talked to, not liking you back or liking someone else.

But even if you ignore the Barb stuff and don't think it's canon, Robin still wouldn't be Nancy's biggest fan in the beginning and that has something to do with how Stancy ended and Jancy begun. You have to keep in mind Steve is Robin's bff, one if not the most important person in her life. He's everything to her she trusts him completely. He was maybe even the first person to know she was gay. Then why on earth would Robin A try to befriend Nancy, who broke his heart, and B trying to push her without a thought to get together with him again. It doesn't make any sense to me, based on how Robin was introduced.

Steve may have not any hard feelings for Nancy, maybe he only said positive things about her to Robin because he still views himself as the only person who fucked up in that relationship and not that Nancy was already in love with Jonathan for a while before things ended. Idk where you stand on the whole cheating thing, but it doesn't matter because rumors outside of the relationship would spread. Steve, the most popular guy in school, who is well liked, got left by his girlfriend of 1 year for the school freak, not even 2 days after a public fight. Like people would go crazy and Robin would have heard those rumors as well. You have to admit getting together with a new guy, not even after 48h is, I don't want to say weird, but not very cool, okay? Plus, Tommy would spread extra nasty shit because he hates Nancy and Jonathan and wants to hurt Steve as well. Robin would view her through those rumors, plus Steve having a hard time letting go, being heartbroken about it, there is no doubt in my mind that she wouldn't side eye Nancy.

Those two reasons, Barb and how Stancy ended, are the main ones as to why I think Robin was ooc for desperately wanting to befriend Nancy.

So the way I would have built up Ronance would be Robin being aloof towards her, and Nancy would have been the one who wanted to befriend her in the first place. Nancy never has to work for her relationships with others. People usually make the first move with her, so she never has to give much thought to it. Like Steve still loves her, Jonathan was ready to follow her wherever even if it endangered his family, and Fred followed her around like a lost puppy as well. And with Robin, it could have gone differently. Nancy should have made it her mission to make it up to Robin. Like she desperately wants a friend, she doesn't understand why Robin is being cold to her. By making her the instigator, Nancy would have to reflect on her mistakes and how she treated people, which would finally give her some personal character growth. Plus, it would have made the introduction to Stancy (romantic or platonic) way smoother and more balanced because Nancy never reflected on it. Steve's just available she doesn't have to make it up to him as well. Nancy never really addresses her faults in relationships, and the narrative in Stranger Things lets her off the hook every time. Letting Steve believe he was a terrible boyfriend despite liking Jonathan instead of him? No problem, no consequences. Steve still likes her. In s3 the show was again on her side when she fought with Jonathan by giving her the Karen pep talk, yes she apologized to him but she didn't understand his struggles really because she gave him the don't ever doubt me comment which kinda destroyed her apology imo. Furthermore, as soon as there was a rough patch in s4 with Jonathan, she expected him to come to her instead of going to him and fixing it because she has the financial means to do so, which indicates she still doesn't fully understand Jonathan's financial problems. Also, in general, Jonathan is terrified to tell her the truth, so he gets high to cope. It doesn't seem that he thinks Nancy is understanding.

Again, Robin could have been the person that would have made her realize wait, the way I take people for granted, and sometimes treat is wrong. Instead, we got yet another person instantly liking her and going along with everything she does, so Nancy never had to do anything for it, despite the obvious conflicts that should have arisen when they first met. But like I said before, the show doesn't have much time and focuses more on the plot, so there is no real development for characters, and everyone has to get along. I also think Stranger Things wanted a strong girl duo like Elmax, so they just threw Ronance together without conflict because they wanted to avoid drama, which would take up too much screentime. I can't emphasize the fact that Stranger Things suffers so much because it has too much plot and not enough time. Plus, I believe making Robin angry at Nancy on Steve's behalf would mean acknowledging that Stancy ended in a bad way or that Jancy maybe didn't have this cute start as a romance, but that would also mean recognizing Steve might have not been the only one who was wrong which is simply not possible. When s2 aired and people pointed out hey did Nancy cheat on Steve, did they really break up because a lot of people didn't view the fight in the ally as a break, especially because Nancy mentions she likes Steve at Murray's and Steve went to her house, the Duffers had to confirm it via interviews because I doubt they thought people would sympathize with Steve. Hence, why the narrative only blames him because they wanted the audience root for Jancy.

Long story short, I would have switched roles for platonic Ronance in the show. When it comes to romantic Ronance, that's mostly on the fandom. Everyone is allowed to ship whatever, I personally just don't think they are a good match. I don't see Nancy being patient enough with Robin's neurodivergent ways. She wouldn't handle her rambling over time very well. Nancy gets quickly irrated and snaps. Like Robin already felt the need to explain herself to her, making sure everything is okay because Nancy made her feel like her personality is too much and has faults, like her mom constantly tells her. Whereas with Vickie, she felt immediately at ease when they talked. More of that later. Robin is also poor, maybe a bit better off than Jonathan, but still, Nancy already doesn't get Jonathan's problems. Another reason is that because Steve is Robin's bff, Robin wouldn't want to date her all together. Like she sees Steve still likes her, she knows how much Nancy hurt him to a point that he is serial dating because he has like trust issues, that would immediately turn her off. Robin values Steve's friendship way too much than try to jeopardize it in any way. It's not like Steve wouldn't allow her to date Nancy, I think he would do everything to make Robin happy even if it costs his own happiness. Robin knows Steve. She would know that he would be hurt, and that's ultimately the factor that turns her off. Maya already confirmed that Robin values platonic relationships so much, so yeah. Just think about it that way. How would Robin feel if Steve suddenly would show interest in Vickie and starts dating her? That would be kinda fucked, same goes for Ronance, Robin knows Steve still likes her. I'm also a believer that you shouldn't necessarily date your bffs ex, it's just too messy especially if that relationship ended rather badly.

@findafight had this amazing post about one-sided Ronance, where they described exactly what I'm trying to convey. Nancy is the one interested, but ultimately, Robin declines because of her relationship to Steve. They also have several other posts about Ronance if you want to check it out. Another blog that discusses Ronance and has similar opinions is @thestobingirlie

What I dislike the most is that in Ronance, mostly Robin is only an ounce of her typical character. Her relationship with Steve is downplayed. She makes fun of him with Nancy, she lies to him about her relationship, even asks for sex advice in some fics which is just very weird and so ooc for her to do. Same goes for Steddie, as soon as either Steve or Robin go into a relationship both characters are so ooc, you almost don't recognize them, plus they only have time for their partners and their friendship gets sidelined, which again doesn't make sense for their characters. Ronance is also mostly beneficial to Nancy as it's viewed more how Robin can save her so she doesn't have to end up with a man. Hence, all the posts about how Robin is the only person who gets her, which is also such a shitty thing to say because both Jonathan and Steve were trying. Like Nancy's character development hinges more on her relationship with Robin than doing some soul-searching. Because for real, all her relationships so far are kinda meh because she doesn't know how to communicate properly with her partners, Robin wouldn't magically make everything better because she's a girl. Nancy needs to be single first and discover who she is without jumping in a new relationship. She needs therapy and has to work on her people skills to be a better partner for future relationships.

Also, so many people want Nancy to have a friend, and when Robin comes along, they immediately make it romantic. Robin can still be there for Nancy and understand her as a friend. I don't think she was romantically interested in Nancy in the show. She was actively pushing for Stancy. She only ever talked about being into Vickie romantically. Robin should be allowed to make a friend who is a girl without making it into a romance just because she is a lesbian. Lesbians can have platonic girl friends, lol. Fact is that so many see Robin interacting with a girl as romantic because she is looking at her and then ignore her real crush she talks about all the time.

Now to Rovickie and Vickie. What I meant with people not giving Vickie a chance because she's a girl and interested in a sapphic relationship is a common occurrence throughout fandoms in general. Guys are usually preferred when talking about characters or shipping. Girls have it so much harder. Like with Gareth, I don't think my comparison of him and Vickie was nonsensical or dumb. The fandom had no problems coming up with interesting headcanons for him, even outside the crackship. Almost all the hellfire boys, but especially Gareth because he's the most objectively attractive one of the group, got more love from the fandom. Vickie, on the other hand, is mostly used as the villain in Ronance fics, who is in the way of the main ship. People in general call her boring or too similar to Robin, which is insane because we have one scene where she rambles because she is talking to her potential crush. Also, being similar doesn't have to mean it's bad. Like I mentioned earlier, Vickie rambling is showing Robin it's okay to do so, which makes her feel immediately relaxed because she doesn't have to explain herself to Vickie. Not to mention the biphobia that runs through fandoms. The fact that Vickie had a boyfriend, who she broke up with, was enough. People usually headcanon Nancy as a lesbian than making her bi. Steve's only a bi icon when he's shipped with guys, like him dating a girl is seen as less valued or popular. Again, everyone can headcanon characters sexuality how they like, you do you it's just apparent that characters who are seen as bi are only celebrated for dating a person of the same sex.

Lastly, think about it if Vickie was a guy who was the love interest for Steve, there would be non-stop content for her. She would be well loved within the fandom. But Vickie is a girl, and if she were used as the love interest for Steve instead of Robin, she would also face the same scrutiny the already faces now. She's the villain in the way of ships because she's only a side character and not the full meal like you described. A male characters even with almost no screentime, will always get better treatment than female characters.

[lookbluesoup]

Hydaelyn in Endwalker

At the risk of looking stupid online I'm going to field my perplexions about Hydaelyn that've been bothering me for months lol This post is... a little Hydaelyn critical. But I do offer that in good faith, I LOVE the character and I'm not trying to just trash her, I'm genuinely interested to hear other perspectives about it. (But please be nice, everyone is entitled to their own take)

Also this is not in response to anyone else's post. I haven't even seen any Hydaelyn posts circulating lately. I'm not vagueing anyone or trying to start drama. Just trying to sort out my own feelings about this character.

So my main takeaway from MSQ was that love is, ultimately, what saves you. That humans (including Ancients!) aren't perfect, and cannot love perfectly, but the shared love of you and others is still what saves you.

And, also, that grief is a part of life. Mistakes are a part of life. Conflict and loss happen, but they need not destroy you. Stand for doing right as best that you can, forgive yourself and keep trying, keep loving - both yourself and others.

There was an incredible amount of emphasis on not judging or hating one's enemies, about accepting the humanity in all of us and coming together, which I really loved.

There was also, of course, a huge rejection of self-sacrifice and martyrdom.

I saw all those themes in the Dark Knight quests a LOT (especially before the English translation changed so many scenes), and I assume Ishikawa was continuing that theme from Shadowbringers onward.

So again! I don't hate Hydaelyn!

But I feel like... at least in the English translation, she is still treated with excessive reverence, like a goddess, by the Scions - even ones it didn't really make sense to after her origin came out, like Y'sthola.

And at least on my first playthrough, while I like Venat a lot and love the drama of the Final Days pushing everyone into points of desperation, to their breaking points, and her decision to sunder the world definitely did ultimately help (help!) make it possible for us to defeat the Endsinger... I dunno.

To me she was still subject to the same arrogance as the rest of the Ancients. Whether her decision paid off or not, she still took into her hands the fate of the entire Star, she still made a decision that would result in millions of deaths.

And if we're going by Hydaelyn's own assertion, that each reincarnation is their own person, not just a missing piece of a whole... then to achieve her goal of a better world, she killed all the remaining Ancients except those three.

She chose to create a world where death and trauma would affect generation after generation - and she can say that it was for the greater good, for the world to survive. But that was essentially the Convocation’s justification too, in creating Zodiark and orchestrating the Rejoinings. Committing genocide to prove that genocide is wrong… is not noble.

The cutscene with her sundering the world, where the people insist they'll return to a world free of sorrow underneath a burning sky, could also NOT be how it actually happened. It had to be representational of her feelings and conclusion. Becoming Hydaelyn took coordination with her followers and planning.

At least in English, idk about the original Japanese, Hythlodaeus's shade describes the time of the Sundering as if the world wasn't in utter ruin at that point. It was beginning to heal, they had restored some natural systems, but the Ancients were short in numbers. At that point, they were done sacrificing their own people, in time they were going to sacrifice other life - plants and animals, to restore those lost brethren.

At the very least, Hythlodaeus's completely different account shows that the two sects of people post-Zodiark were viewing their sacrifice and end goal in completely different ways. Ethics aside, whether the competing goal was achievable or not… we will never know, because Venat stopped it from happening.

But I don't think either recounting has a monopoly on the truth. There was no One Truth, there were just competing needs and perspectives. And though Venat insists that unity is necessary to avert the Endsinger - she perpetuates this division. Azem refused her followers call to help summon Hydaelyn, and I think that's significant.

But I'll also acknowledge that Azem didn't manage to save the Ancients, either.

And you could argue that the Ancients were their own worst enemy. They kind of were.

Hermes was a really, really great caricature of severe, untreated Depression. And he had the powers of a god. His creations were sent to find a specific answer in the world beyond, and like their creator, they didn't have the tools to process hearing an answer other than what they were expecting. They were trapped in their own perspective. He was looking for answers in the stars, instead of in himself. Their own pain and inability to engage with emotion in a healthy way overwhelmed every encounter they had and created the very reality he so feared.

He did not use the proper channels for peer review before sending them out on their mission. Those rules, those checks and balances, that community approach to design, existed to protect the Ancients from their own power, and he deliberately acted in secret. He isolated himself from society, convinced himself his pain was something nobody could understand, made an island of himself and doubled down on his own jaded beliefs.

I don't know what kind of mental health facilities were available to the Ancients - we just don't have that information. But I do know that he was treated with patience and forgiveness by a significant number of colleagues, and his quirks weren't held against him. People did try to help and accommodate him, even if they didn't always understand. He had been promoted to a powerful position. I don't know if it's fair to blame anyone in particular, or even their society, for what happened. Because again... everyone was doing the best they could with what they had.

If anything, the problem was that literally any Ancient could have made a similar mistake in the right situation. They were ALL that powerful. Eventually chaos would happen. Sundered souls can certainly create destruction, but not on the same scale.

I don't personally agree with Hydaelyn's decision not to reach out to the Convocation. I understand being careful, and thinking through what the next step should be before acting. But there's a LOT of "maybes" in this argument:

And ultimately, it's her doing the same thing as Hermes, putting the power of judgement over an entire people in her own hands. She's assuming that she is in a unique position to decide the fate of the entire Star. It's not evil. But it's arrogant. She wasn't special among the Ancients, gifted with some unique wisdom. She was doing the best she could from her own perspective.

Plus... if half your population, and then another half again are about to sacrifice themselves... what have you got to lose by outing Hermes and/or trying to work with the Convocation to avert that loss of life? We don't have all the details, I'm willing to accept that there were circumstances that made it impossible, or at least made Venat decide against trying it. But even so. What did you have to lose leading up to the summoning of Zodiark? There was already panic and destruction at that point.

Hydaelyn sacrificed a lot of people to accomplish her goals. She made a goddess of herself and manipulated people like Minfilia on that basis. She killed so many children and stole so many lives even just by reincarnating Minfilia over and over on the First. She misrepresents the nature of the Ascians to the WoL, keeps secrets, and essentially charges you with being a crusader in her Holy War.

It's Emet- Selch who tries to bridge the gap. Not Hydaelyn. It's him who's willing to consider trying to achieve his goals without bloodshed, if you, the WoL, are strong enough. He says this to himself, out of anyone else's hearing. There's no reason for it to be a lie.

And just before Mt. Gulg, you can see Emet starting to question his beliefs about humanity because of the WoL's accomplishments. Hydaelyn has nothing to do with that. It's all you. And Emet succumbs to his own weaknesses too, so we never get to know what that might have happened if you'd had more time with him. He's not better than her.

But I think it's significant that he's the one who reaches out. Who's willing to consider a compromise at all.

In war you make sacrifices, I get that. But she was not more heroic, somehow, than the Ascians. Both sides were doing terrible things and denying the agency of mortals in order to achieve their ideal world.

So to me... she was not a benevolent incomprehensibly wise mother figure. Much like in real life we go from being kids who trust our moms implicitly, to adults who realize our mother was human and made mistakes, I think we’re supposed to recognize that Hydaelyn didn't do everything right and its our job to carry the future forward for subsequent generations, to learn from what came before, and hope that our own children do the same and forgive us for our own mistakes.

I think its very important to note that the WoL is just as much the Convocation's creation as Hydaelyn's. Without being rejoined as many times as they were, the WoL wouldn’t have survived. She saves you from the Ultima Weapon, Emet-Selch saves you from Elidibus, and its their powers combined that save you and your friends from the Endsinger. You are the legacy of each side’s imperfect love, equally.

WHICH brings me to my point of perplexion. Hydaelyn continues to be venerated. NPCs who know what happened continue to emphasize her side of things. I feel I must be missing something, because to me, the finale of Endwalker essentially shattered any idea that this was a Light vs Dark kind of story. People made choices. People made mistakes. It wasn't good or evil. It was human. We survived in spite of our mistakes because love was more powerful than our imperfections.

The Scions sacrificed themselves one by one just like the Ancients. And got brought back using energy from the Star... not all that different than what the Ascians had planned to do with their own brethren. I just don't see much functional difference there in the sentiments between either side.

I don't think we're supposed to hate Hydaelyn. I don't think she was evil. But I don't think she was better than the Ascians.

So while I don't expect, or want, characters to be condemning her left and right in the narrative, it's still baffling to me that there's such consistent, explicit reverence for her.

[pumpkinpie59]

rating tmnt love interests for the turtles

under the cut ;)))

leonardo

radical / raven shadowheart - mirage

6/10

-she seems pretty okay, but i can’t tell how old she is.

-she’s only his love interest in a possible future, not in the main timeline, but she freaking dies in that future lol.

-i mean i think it has potential but there’s not much there. they seemed cute for what we got tho.

-prolly my second fav leo love interest but that’s not saying much.

leonardo’s wife - mirage

5/10

-from his side story vision or whatever

-kinda average bc they’re cute but she doesn’t exist :/

lotus blossom - 1987

100000000000000000/10

-idk what to say they’re my otp lmao

-objectively best romantic relationship leonardo has ever had.

-they’re mutually into each other, work off of each other well, even splinter likes lotus so leonardo’s dad approves!!

-only downside is lotus hasn’t been in anything since and i think that’s why i’m so salty that they paired leonardo with april in the new movie (kinda but i’ll get to that).

venus de milo - next mutation

-1000000/10

-what the.

-that scene was painful to watch holy cow.

-“we’re just a mutant guy and a mutant girl” *lip bite* -> she just wanted a family bro 😭

carmen - archie

?/10

-all i know is that it’s from a possible future and the wiki says they’re implied to be interested in each other but i don’t trust the wiki so i’m skeptical

-also it’s weird for leonardo to date his pupil

koya - idw

-1/10

-*explodes*

-bruh they have no chemistry and he literally crippled her and she hates him for it.

-this only exists for the bad future and i’ll stand by that.

karai - 2012

-1000000000000000/10

-it’s worse than venus bc they both have splinter’s genetics. they are blood related.

-also they’re cousins too.

-“tHeY’rE nOt rLLy reLaTed” okay even if they weren’t blood related, it’s still weird as hell to crush on an adopted or step sibling/cousin. family is family regardless. and in a kids show especially; tmnt shouldn’t be telling kids it’s okay to crush on your adopted/step sibling/cousin!!!!

-karai led leonardo on.

-it sucks bc if you drop the flirting and crush completely, leonardo and karai’s dynamic is really good for both their characters!! new girl in town is legit one of my fav episodes just for how it portrays leo’s conflict with himself as a brother and as a leader. and he and karai’s dynamic is very interesting as friends and/or siblings or cousins.

april o’neil - mutant mayhem

5/10

-i mean it’s just okay imo.

-leo’s crush is adorable and i like their dynamic a lot.

-i just don’t think april is into him romantically. but their friendship is great.

-i honestly want leonardo to move on and let them be good friends. but i don’t want it to be drawn out and excruciating.

-also i want lotus in a sequel or the tv show 😭

raphael

mona lisa - 1987

9/10

-okay so. if i’m being completely honest, in the show they’re not really romantic. she’s a bit flirty but their dynamic is mostly platonic. which isn’t a bad thing!

-i think as a romantic pairing, they wouldn’t get together for a long time, but i do like them as a couple.

-it’s one of those pairings where i like them as both a romantic couple and as best friends and they work for both equally!

-they’re funny i like them.

venus de milo - next mutation

-1000000/10

-oh yeah raphael liked her too …

-blegh.

umeko / ninjara - archie

2/10

-i’ll be real i do not care about ninjara.

-they broke up so it doesn’t even matter.

mezcaal - archie

6/10

-raphael’s wife from a possible future.

-they’re adorable. shout out to archie raphael for being the only turtle to canonically get married.

-he gives her head pats :3

joi reynard - 2003

8/10

-he asked her out how sweet :3

-i wish joi showed up more i would’ve loved to see them interact more

alopex - idw

3/10

-GIRL GET OUT OF THERE HES NOT GOOD FOR YOU

-she was tWELVE when they met

-he was sIXTEEN

-what the HECK.

-also he was so moody toward her several times ugh

y’gythgba / mona lisa - 2012

10/10

-there we go. the best raphael romance.

-idk they’re cute.

-my only issue is that their first episode together is badly paced and i just wish they had more episodes together. but that’s the issue with 2012 in general not just them specifically.

donatello

jhanna - mirage

9/10

-literally the same as 03 except not as much interaction between them, however, donatello did look much more smitten in mirage?? ig???

-but yeah i love jhannatello :3333333

irma - 1987

2/10

-does this. count?

-idk i only included it bc irma kinda flirts with him more than the others and they end up being closer friends compared to the other turtles.

-yeah no i really don’t think this should. be shipped gjdjfj

-she’s an adult. tho it is weird that she flirted with him but ig the writers forgot the implications 😭

-i could see ppl making her a love interest in a version where she’s a teenager too but otherwise noooooooo

-i like their friendship tho they’re funny.

((((also shout out to next mutation donatello for not flirting with his sister so i don’t have to include her lol))))

jhanna - 2003

10/10

-my belovedssssss

-idc that it’s only implied I LOVE THEIR DYNAMIC

-i ship them so hard.

-they have more screentime together in 03 which is why i like it more than mirage.

-also they slept side by side so obviously it’s canon duhhh

renet - 2003

6/10

-included cause some ppl think they were a thing

-they’re cute ngl

-i think maybe they were into each other for a bit but it didn’t work out bc time travel romances don’t work

april o’neil - 2003

2/10

-donatello kinda had a crush on her but thank God it didn’t go anywhere.

-yeah no thanks lol.

-love their friendship tho they bestiessss

mona lisa - idw

1/10

-why is mona a jerk in idw smh

-i’ve already talked about this but yeah i do not like their situationship at all.

-give him jhanna i’m begging fjdjfjdk

april o’neil - 2012

9/10

-yES I RANKED THEM THAT HIGH SHUT UP

-only turtle x april ship i like; otherwise i’m a jhannatello stan

-keep in mind i only rlly “ship” them in season 4 onwards

-season 1 to 3 was their messy phase and they needed to grow up before they got together

-they were totally dating in season 5 fIGHT ME

-they’re idiots and i love them

bigfoot - 2012

-1/10

-fjdkdkskfjskkdjdksdj

-thanks to my sister for making me add this

-yeah what the.

tbh i don’t count batgirl hhh

michelangelo

princess seri - mirage

1/10

-what in the soap opera—

-no bc she seduced him, had his babies, sent him to jail, and left him there when he called out for help; he was justified to hate her

-the way this plotpoint gets dropped and never mentioned again LMAO

-mikey is the only turtle with canon kids 💀

kala - 1987

10/10

-the best michelangelo ship bite me

-THEYRE SO PURE

-the way he looked after her when they first met 😭

-their cute flirting fjskfjdkdk

-i love them

buffy shellhammer - 1987

4/10

-she’s annoying but she’s capable of handling herself so i like her lol

-but michelangelo liking her was super random and was only there bc the episode was a copy of the transformers g1 episode where powerglide falls for a human girl. i’m not joking both episodes were written by david wise and have the same plotpoints.

-“main flame” my butt michelangelo

-maybe he crushed on her bc kala being in an alternate dimension and near impossible to contact made him feel like it was never gonna work or something … that’s so sad omigosh

-leonardo of all ppl telling him it wouldn’t work bc she’s a human is hilarious tho. like boy lotus blossom is into you too and you know this lmao

mitsu - 3rd 90s movie

3/10

-i haven’t seen this movie, but i don’t like time travel romances.

venus de milo - next mutation

-1000000/10

-pls end me

sara hill / horridus - image

3/10

-… tbh i don’t like hook-up dynamics … it’s not romantic to me …

-also idc if a character is curvy but the girls in image comics are drawn so badly like they have no spine,,, just boobs and butt 💀

princess trib - idw

9/10

-finally a good mikey ship

-THEYRE ADORABLE

-the purest idw couple fr

-they’re just sweet to each other and encouraging and gahhhh

-mikey wanted to show her his manga collection to impress her and i think that’s funny

-it is kinda weird that trib is based on tribble from 1987,,, aka the neutrino baby … but whatever lol

renet - 2012

7/10

-i mean y’know whatever they’re cute

-it’s still a time travel romance which is … mehhh for me

-like it’s sad bc i don’t see it working out unless renet quits her timestress job …

shinigami - 2012

4/10

-pls they’re just friends.

-there’s no reason to make the turtles crush on every single girl character in the show 😭

april o’neil - bayverse movies

2/10

-end my suffering.

-making april pretend to think it’s funny was also cringe. like make her tell him to stop pls.

lemme know if i missed one ….

[ritsukaaoyagi]

*heart palpitations* like to soubi, ritsuka is his sacrifice first and a person second for a while. i know soubi acknowledges him as a child in volume three which for sure kick starts a kind of growth in their relationship (vol 3 in general... sighs wistfully) but still obviously struggles with how to treat and view ritsuka... mostly because he is projecting onto ritsuka and using him to fulfill his own "needs"... or whatever... like he kind of uses ritsuka to unravel. but soubi really emphasizing ritsuka's status as his Sacrifice is still kind of shaky because he obviously does not obey him in the same way he would with like seimei or ritsu. and obviously this has to do with not necessarily ritsuka being a child but ritsuka just obviously treating soubi decently and clearly not taking the fighter/sacrifice dynamic as seriously as soubi does and having no interest in that... so ritsuka is safe to disobey.......... some of it also has to do with ritsuka being a kid but i dont feel like getting into that rn it's clear... AURRMMM LIKE IDK BASICALLY i just think soubi treats ritsuka Like That mostly because he doesn't know how else to treat him obviously like Where would someone like soubi even start with being ordered to love someone.

and with the projection thing it's like. actually no regardless of that they're pretty similar either way like this is literally also soubi's deal too

they are both soooo crazy. crazy dedication to people who are actively hurting them because they feel they need them in their lives and just that alone gives their own existence a sense of purpose or whatever (however "purpose" can be interpreted... IDGAF) and Obviously how this works for both of them is different and clearly soubi is in the process of growing out of this but IMO RITSUKA IS NOTTT!!! Well he's 12. and the denial of it all... for both of them... idk... i don't have much to say besides stuff i've already said i just feel things... hmm and by soubi projecting onto ritsuka it's like clearly they can relate on same things and seimei and yada yada but he also uses this to hurt ritsuka. Not on purpose obviously but you know what i mean......like just read loveless. waaait when he started "training" him My god... dont even get me started on the ear piercing scene and then the scene that's like not directly after but soon after where soubi is talking about how he hates butterflies...... It's okay it's okay omg calm down. that's another example of soubi talking about both himself and ritsuka respectively and together IMO!!!!!!

as for ritsuka's side of things i'll start getting mildly freudian so that's it rn. ritsuka does process soubi as a human pretty quickly though NOT at first but ritsuka person-ing soubi happens much more quickly than vice versa. I mean that's the whole conflict of their shit for a good chunk or even just in general like soubi having given up his personhood and ritsuka kind of wrestling with his own but standing by it while also going a little crazy And also trying to affirm soubi's personhood at the same time. And going a little crazy (looks away)

[starburr]

Ok time for some rambling because I don't do enough of it.

Gundam Requiem for Vengeance wasn't the best tbh but the mobile suit fight scenes were really neat. I appreciated how nice the GM looked, esp with the sorta flippy down visor. The main gundam was terrifying to an extent, and the zaku designs kind of grew on me. Although I was biased towards the gouf customs, those were really great to see.

Next up, back to transformers one again (gee I wonder why I can't stop talking about it) LIKE D16 to MEGATRONS journey is do, gosh it's so beautiful and tragic. Granted, he kind of held to some fascist ideals but it's so interesting how you see his inner conflict through his body language. How he takes that pain so personally, and unleashes it in a violent flurry of words and physicality. It's so beautiful I love the heartbreak in Optimus' eyes realizing what must be done, I LOVE HOW THE FILMMADE ME HATE THEM HURTING ONE ANOTHER LIKE. Yeah. Transformers One is so good. I can't quite organize the thoughts but hhhhhhhh it's so good

Ok then some Inside Out, nothing long really. I might hate Disney but I do appreciate how the team that worked on the film has all these different designs for the new emotions, some I like more than others (ennui and anxiety mostly but I love my original gang). There's quite a lot of texture and lighting into them, carrying over that soft fuzzy look. Ah right, and then the myriad of ship pairings. It's really lovely to see the fans so hard at putting out their aus, designs and ideas. I'm strangely fine with all the pairings like?? They make sense and they're cute and all that. Been personally drawn to nervenoodle a lot because they both look good together, and potential for interactions. Hence my headcanons but still, sometimes I just don't need to justify to ship something non problematic ànyway. Enjoyed the film, my pirated copy wasn't bad so yipee.

Ànd lastly for now, some Luca pondering. Yeah, I'll admit I have ideas for my AU and headcanons that most of the fans won't agree with cough cough poly underdogs cough cough but, it still isn't anything too tacky or problematic really. I'm still most obsessed with it over any other fandom, hence my AU although I'm still writing other stuff into it. Idk, it was such a good movie and I'm excited for potential in its future.

Oh well that's enough disorganized thoughts.

[solitarily-sofia]

heartstopper (tv show) unpopular opinions:

tao should not have cut his hair. i feel like his hair being long was a sign of him standing by elle and growing his hair out in solidarity bc elle had mentions she got suspended bc of hair length (and taos is curled bc straight it would be past his chin which is the length elle got suspended for) also tao is supposed to be an "outcast" but now hes lowkey fineee

i wish the rugby lads had more screen time, specifically in the reoccuring line up of the three of them gossiping and being cut off by coach singh.

the whole point of the show is providing happy healthy lgbt couples so people complaining its too cheesey, cringy or unrealistic are incorrect.

i hate to say it but charlies mom may have been correct in banning him from nick until he got his grades up... maybe there was a better way of doing so but there was a clear connection bc charlie declining in school and him constantly being with nick. but i am glad how they added that to the show especially from charlies pov bc its so perfectly teenagerly and angsty lol.

i wish they had more characters not in romantic relationships especially with the implications of sahar x imogen other than issac just bc hes ace

kit and joe are the best actors in the show, both together and on their own. (i do think nearly everyone is fantastic but they are definitely the best especially kit but he has 10 more year of experience than everyone else)

most unpopular of all.. i dont love inogen as a character... i think she deserves the best but nick refering to her as one of hsi oldest, closest friends seems a bit strange seeing how most of there relationship is her having a crush on him. she provided a good subplot and conflict in season one but idk she doesnt seem to fit with the show. (this could be bc i was a comic fan first) also i think this could be different if she was a straight ally and expanding on her friendships instead but now i fee like they just wanted more queer people in the show and so they are throwing her with sahar. (the lighting was not subtle) anyway i dont think she was really needed in s2 except to keep ben, who i also dont rly think was needed, and i wonder what they do for her in season three

sorry for such a long list lol and although it may not seem like it i do truly love this show/story. feel free to disagree with any id love to hear your thoughts

Hii sorry for the late response today's been a bit chaotic.

Let's unwrap thiss

I to an extent agree with the tao one, his hairstyle really compliments his personality and he said he felt comfortable with it in season 2! And at first he only cut his hair for elle. But I personally think his season 2 hair looks better aside from that. Still love this though because it's cute that he grew it long for elle! :)

For the second one, I KNOWW!!. I would have loved to see the friendship between nick, Christian, sai and otis develop more!! However, if the show continues to follow as it does in the comics. We should see them more in season 3!! :)

With this I agree, heartstopper isn't supposed to be 100% realistic, it's meant to bring a sense of comfort to people who are struggling.

I agree that his mum probably should have handled it better but it helped Charlie in the long run so that's good. And I think she does genuinely care, but reading this winter and solitaire I can't say I'm a massive fan of her.

The imogen x sahar thing is understandable as there are a lot of queer teen relationships in the show, but the show is showing different types of queer experiences/relationships and how they come to terms with their sexuality. I understand your side though :)

Kit and joe are such incredible actors!! They never fail to have me sobbing on the floor. I MEAN THE FINAL SCENE OF SEASON 2 I WAS BALLING. And I agree the rest of the cast are so incredible too! I really loved tobies performance especially this season. It's rare to see aroace representation but he really did such a great job and it stood out to me.

And finally, with imogen (as a comic fan myself) at first I'll admit I didn't exactly LOVE her character, but it wasn't really her fault she was just a girl who liked a guy. I loved how her character developed though! I kinda think it's a good idea for imogen to be more involved because as seen in season 2 she doesn't have many friends and it would be great to see her adapt herself more to the Paris squad and maybe understand her sexuality more.

Thankyou so much for this ask I loved answering this :)

[kuzure-collapse]

confessing too late prompt?

since some of my friends found love this year, but we've graduated, so they might never see their lovers again

---

A and B are graduating school and moving in different directions in life. Or only A is, and B is still around for another year.

Or A and B are coworkers and A is leaving for another position (far away or even at a different company). either way, they're probably never gonna have another encounter

And they both know that

spice it up and make them former rivals/enemies (i like that trope too much). they've been stubbornly hiding their feelings for each other and now that this moment's here, there's conflict in their hearts.

Do I say something, or do I keep quiet and save my pride? Can't get the feeling off their chest. the realization hits them, sudden regret for the words unsaid

all those times they fantasized about holding hands, kissing each other, holding them close. something that could've been if only one made a move

instead, they wasted all that time scoffing and teasing, jumping to conclusions at all the hints of reciprocation and accidental flirts

or thinking the other was interested in someone else. bringing up other people to get their minds off each other.

and finally, when A is packing their things or something, B watches from a distance, gathering the courage to approach. step by step, and suddenly, they're running (cue the cliche 'stop them at the airport scene')

or it doesn't have to be that dramatic. it could be a slow walk towards a packing A, a longing look, and a responding glance from A, wondering why B looks so down

or it could be at a party to celebrate seeing A off/celebrate the end of a year. and they end up in a room alone together, away from the rest of the noise. or sitting in one's room after the party's over and they've helped to clean up

or walking out together into the night, when thoughts are most intimate

the hype has died down and they're talking about how much time has passed, how things have changed, how they're gonna miss all their friends

and the conversation ends up going into vulnerable territory. they've never seen the other like this before, so exposed and melancholy

how they regret not doing certain things, not meeting certain people. not falling in love (or something like that)

and that catches B's attention.

swallowing, throat bobbing, heart shaking, everything going warm. hands in fists, clenching and unclenching in their pockets, chewing their lip

A notices, glancing up and down innocently. they're also feeling conflicted. surprised by B's genuine look of longing and sadness. moving towards new opportunities, but having to leave something behind.

"I have to tell you something" or even omit that outright and get straight to it.

"I like you." something as simple as that.

A looks up, confused. Defeated chuckling, "Is this a joke?"

the fact that A doesn't take it seriously hurts B. Has B been that horrible?

"No."

A is surprised by the genuine look of sadness on B's face. "For how long?"

"A while." or however long you want.

A smiles and starts to tear up, taking B's hand delicately into theirs. "I feel the same."

elation wells in B's heart before being replaced by that same regret.

idk where I'm going with this lol

or instead of asking if it's a joke, A says, "No you don't" you don't like me. that's not possible. i can't fathom being loved, much less by someone as good as you.

"don't be so cruel," A adds, voice cracking. you know the type of character who hates themselves so much they can't accept affection? the type that nothing good ever happens to, so they stop hoping.

"what do you mean?" B asks, hurt. "what makes you say that?"

A making any excuse. "You like someone else" even if it doesn't make sense and the clues are all there. making all kinds of nonsensical theories.

"I've been trying to get rid of these feelings. don't bring them back. I thought i'd be able to move on once i left." A is shedding tears, not even looking at B.

soft first kiss scene owo?

[fagsystem]

Remind me I was thinking about a Bowuigi starcrossed lovers unhealthy at times but ultimately happy ending with good communication story.

1. Bowser is enemies of the Mushroom Kingdom and Mario, therefore enemies of Luigi.

2. Bowser kidnaps Luigi during a fight. It is a spontaneous decision to piss of Mario and one he regretted IMMEDIATELY because what the fuck is he supposed to do with this guy?? Kill him?? He does NOT want to have the war between his kingdom and the Mushroom kingdom to end up his children's problem when they grow up, and killing Luigi would make it too personal and the fight would go on for generations. Not to mention, the risk that Mario would try and hurt him back by hurting his family. Motherfucker, he DID NOT think this through.

3. Bowser decides that the best thing to do would be to keep Luigi close until he figures it out. So Luigi is just. Staying in his room.

4. Luigi is terrified of course after being kidnapped. And he does hate Bowser. No amount of Bowser being literally his type changes that! And he refuses to have any weird feelings about sharing a room with him! He is a prisoner after all. It does not matter if Bowser personally tended to his wounds, after all Bowser inflicted them. And Bowser made sure the mattress he was given was comfortable and that he had enough blankets, nice clothes, water in case he got thirsty in the night. He was chained up, none of that mattered.

5. Anyway, forced proximity means they get close. They fall in love. One particularly cold night they share a bed. Luigi is there for like a month, they both fall hard and fast. By the end of it, they're both sort of pretending that Luigi is not kidnapped and they can stay in this happy bubble together.

6. Mario rescues Luigi.

7. The war is still ongoing, so Luigi and Bowser fight again and again.

8. They end up meeting in secret and dating.

9. They still have to fight each other, hence the unhealthiness. Not to mention, it is a MAJOR point of conflict where they each feel like the other is harming their people.

10. Idk man, I'm tired. I mostly got to the idea of them fighting and every time they fight they are so mad at each other. Especially because of how close Mario and Luigi are, whenever Bowser and Mario go toe-to-toe it really enrages Luigi. Bowser says he loves him and knows how much it hurts him, and yet there he goes hurting his brother. So then he defends his brother, directly fighting with Bowser. Now Bowser is angry because sure, he understands that Luigi has to stand with his own people, but that does not mean that he has to fight him directly. Why would he attack him? Why would Luigi hurt him? Why would Luigi make Bowser hurt him? Anyway I can just imagine like Bowser grabbing Luigi and flinging him like a ragdoll. Like in the movie, if you saw that scene. And Luigi just lays on the ground looking up at Bowser. Bowser looks at him. They love each other so much, and yet look at them. They love each other too much to truly hate each other, even if they're mad, so they just hate themselves.

11. Things get good they live happily ever after.

[daz4i]

poke u like weird bsd rarepairs? share ur weird bsd rarepairs

ooooo i have very few of those tbh hehehe idk how rare they even count but like 🤔 in comparison to the big ones ig!

odaran. What Could've Been. ranpo being there the first time we meet odasaku (chronologically) and meeting him right before his death and trying to save him, in his own way, probably without even recognizing him. ough

speaking of ranpo. chuuran! they are the embodiment of that one "wouldn't it be funny if they fucked" post to me (every ship in this post can work in a platonic way but not this one. to me i mean. i need them to have a weird hate boner thing going on for each other)

and now speaking of chuuya. kunichuu :) my mutuals have converted me. i feel like they would be impressed by each other, when stripped of the context of the conflict between their organizations at least

this post is turning into a "this is my boyfriend x and his boyfriend y and his boyfriend z etc" chain. kunisig. they have similar work values and etiquette and the passion and undying care for the people in their charge. they could definitely hit it off and i think it'd be extremely cute :]

speaking of sig-*gets shot* ahem. atsusig is probably my favorite sigma ship tbh and it's so painfully underrated. they shared one (1) scene and it was so emotional already. plus the similarities between them are so cute. they would have lovely energy together and go on the cutest dates. i think they're both, at the end of the day, looking for a place to belong and are happy to be loved and loving in return (except, atsushi has it more than sigma does) and it makes me emotional to think about them being that place for each other along with the people around them

bramcraft. undead monster bfs go brrr

nikoda-*gets shot* *again*

idk if any of these count as weird but 🫡 hope this answer is okay anyway

[itsclydebitches]

Can someone ezblain why we had that whole roy vs jamie over keeley fight revived? I was happy that they were being friends. Then they went to keeley's house and wer liek you pick and I was so sure she was going to be like why not both? I was on that train. Her canon reaction made sense but then made ask why bring it up at all? They were doing fine. Their relationship grew beyond fighting over a girl, after what they went thru togtherr? Idk

I really wish I could explain it, anon. Personally, I think the problem started an episode before when they suddenly introduced the "I don't want to just be friends" conflict when, from where I was standing, Roy and Keeley had already gotten back together, concluding the journey we've known they were on since the start of Season One. Keeley starts falling for Roy, they date, have some struggles, overcome them, and presumably conclude the series as an item, demonstrating that Keeley can be a strong, independent boss while also indulging in the romance she's been interested in since her introduction.

But then, suddenly, their night together + Rebecca's realization doesn't mean they're dating again. Okay, weird to introduce that in the literal final hour, but I guess they wanted one last conflict for the finale. I got ohhhhh so excited when Roy admitted to being anxious about "stuff" because what could that possibly be except him grappling with feelings for Jamie too? He and Keeley JUST slept together, he JUST wrote her a love confession, he JUST said overtly and without reservations that he wants more than friendship, so there's nothing Keeley-only related that he'd be this nervous about. It's got to be the poly plot-line that's been happening in the background. This is why everyone looks to Jamie during Colin's coming out scene. This is how we confirm Beard's reminder that there are more queer people in the room. This is why we see Jamie's bedroom with a sexualized Keeley AND a poster of Roy right beside it, positioning them as equals. This is why we got moments like Jamie attending Roy's uncle party because yeah, they haven't just become friends, they've become intimately close. Holy shit, Ted Lasso's actually gonna do it!

So I went into the bar scene not liking the regression to jealousy -- and I hated that Jamie used the video to try and one-up Roy, especially after all the good work the writing did with that: having him apologize and keeping that information from Roy when it was none of his business -- but I figured this was just the messy way the story was getting us to that poly ending. They need to act in the traditional Manly Fashion over the girl, going so far as to demand that Keeley choose one of them, in order to access the opportunity for her to say (and I could hear it so clearly in her voice): "Why should I choose just one?" The lead-up to this could have definitely been done better, I thought, watching the three of them sit down at the table, Like, I hate that we're suddenly regressing to set this up, it's stupid, but a canonical poly ending will be worth some missteps. Hell, I'll forgive a LOT here because we almost NEVER get that representation and in a show this popular? Hot damn, that's amazing.

And then Keeley just kicked them both out.

Thank god she remained single, like she always should have been. Strong and independent! I've seen a lot of fans say post-finale and I'm just in my corner going wait, I'm happy for you, truly I am, but I'm asking in the nicest way possible if we watched the same show?? The one where Keeley has ALWAYS wanted a romance? How she's an amazing character in part BECAUSE the writing allowed her to love romance and sex and being a badass boss? Where she and Roy were set up to be the True Love story from the very start? How a Keeley/Roy/Jamie story has been happening subtly in the background, now primed to become canon in the season largely focused on queer identities? How Keeley did not need to be the narrowly defined strong, independent, single woman when Rebecca Fucking Welton was right there, loving her life post-divorce, and instead the story decided to give her a man and a little girl at the last possible second?

They'll at least address that and have Keeley announce her intentions to stay single for a time after that mess with Jack, as a way of wrapping up her story, I thought and then that never happened.

They'll at least address Jamie and Roy's lingering feelings for Keeley because surely, after that bar confrontation, resulting in an actual FIGHT, they won't just shrug this off over some kebabs, I thought and then that never happened.

Well, it sucks that we didn't get a poly couple, but I suppose it was always a long shot--

[Dani slams in with two model women we know nothing about, just literal arm candy at a wedding where Beard marries his abuser that, intentionally or not, is kinda framed as a dream and wait wait wait THAT'S the canonical poly rep we're ending on??]

I've seen a couple people say that they enjoy the finale more after a re-watch and hell yeah. More power to you. Wish that were me. Unfortunately, outside the stuff I liked right at the start, I've enjoyed the finale less and less the more I've returned to it. So much just feels like it came out of nowhere, regressed the characters, contradicted long-term setups, and generally left me feeling disappointed about things they I believe we had good reason to expect from the show. These weren't things we simply hoped for and thus fans are in need of a reminder that this is not their story. This was stuff Ted Lasso textually and thematically implied... and when you're the feel good show of the quarantine era, pulling back from those implied promises feels even worse. The long-running couple break up in the most confusing, backsliding way possible. The last episode cruelly teases one of the most popular ships. Nate's entire redemption arc was rushed/had key moments pushed off-screen, giving him almost no time to re-connect with Ted. The established abuse plot-line is played straight at the end. Ted goes back to Kansas and, according to the montage, full-on abandons his found family in the name of doing right by Henry -- a level of sacrifice I don't think this kid needs or, if given the chance to have a say in all this, would necessarily even want.

Idk, there were a LOT of fantastic moments (the sign reveal makes me SCREAM!!!!!) but overall the bones of the finale left me feeling sad. The Roy/Keeley/Jamie situation is pretty reflective of that feeling.

[stormyoceans]

can i rant here a little bit? i hope you don't mind! okay so... i'm a big yinwar fan and have been since love mechanics (it was not a perfect show we know that but their chemistry was top tier), the partners in crime trailer was amazing tbh can't tell you how many times i've rewatched it it's just so good! and they did that just for a concert like good for them!!! so i was soooo excited about j&j! and i enjoyed the first episodes so much, it's a good show, it has social commentary it has good acting it has war wanarat it has slowburn (i looove a good slowburn) but at some point they... lost me? and i'm so sad about it lol because i love them! but like the last three episodes i found boring i was fast forwarding some scenes even, the pacing was weird, some decisions i didn't understand, the conflicts didn't hook me up at all, the tension they have been building up completely flattened for me, the kiss felt so anticlimactic 😭 i hate this, i guess i wanted to know your opinion maybe i need to give it some time or something idk idk i enjoyed sooooo much the first half of the show that's why i'm sad

hello, anon!!!!

first of all, please remember that if you need to rant about a show or even life in general, my ask box is always open and i will always gladly listen, so i don’t mind at all!!!!

about jack & joker…….oh boy. okay. i feel like someone is gonna snipe me out of the fandom by the end of this, but let’s talk about it. i want to preface this by saying that i appreciate this show a whole lot and that yinwar will always have my undying admiration and support for being able to put together a series like this without a company to back them up: they dared to do a unique plot without knowing how well it was going to be received, which is a risk that big consolidated companies are still too afraid to take ([coughs] GMMTV [coughs]), and they’re doing so while also serving great social commentary, complex characters, interesting dynamics, incredible acting, insane chemistry, and an actual slow burn

all this being said, i try my best to be objective and honest in my opinions, and while the show has all the elements that i love and that would normally make me go crazy, it’s unfortunately not working as much for me, and that’s because i agree that the show has MAJOR narrative and pacing issues. you actually nailed one of the main problems down, which is that the tension that was steadily building in the first few episodes, both plot-wise and relationship-wise, all of a sudden completely flattened out. and don’t get me wrong, it’s perfectly fine to include moments where the pace is slowed down to add new information or character motivation, because while they do temporarily slow down the momentum of the story, they also help to make the later tension that much greater and more gripping, but after episodes 5 and 6 – after the group steals aran’s mother’s necklace back from rosé, after jack forgives joke, after aran gets disowned by his father and moves in with tattoo – the tension has had trouble picking up again

even if they included new conflicts – grandma getting sick, jack becoming boss’ adopted son and being forced to court rosé, the four horsemen – the narrative has started to crumble around the edges, because suddenly it has lost sight of the characters that it used to build tension up until that moment, and instead of releasing that tension, it just leaves you with all these loose threads that don’t really get tied up: how did tattoo and aran get closer? did aran’s father beat up any bodyguard in place of aran or was it always hope? is hope still recovering? is jack going to find out about what save did? how close jack and save even were? how did they meet? how did hope and save meet? i still have no idea who nang is for rosé and the boss and idk if i’ve missed something or ??????

and like im sure some of these questions will get an answer in the last three episodes, but the focus has shifted so much that whatever tension was built over them is now gone. i personally think they were able to raise it back up a little in episode 9 thanks to the heist and the group being back together (which is why i enjoyed it way more than the previous two), but the narrative feels very clunky to me. as for the kiss itself, i actually liked it, but i understand how the entire confession scene might feel a bit anticlimactic, and again i think it’s because all the tension they built up between jack and joke basically disappeared once jack forgave him. yes, the divorce era in episode 7 and 8 hurt, but by then the viewers already knew that the two of them had feelings for each other, and the entire thing with rosé was never really a threat to their relationship, so you’re just waiting for them to confess. they could have made the tension rise again by making them do that in the heat of the moment (while arguing, after one of them got hurt, etc.), but i guess they wanted that to be a small moment of peaceful joy for them, so i appreciate it

this got so incredibly long so im shutting up now, but the point is. i very much feel the same way as you, anon, and believe me when i say im also incredibly sad that im not going crazy over the show like i wished to. it’s still probably gonna make it into my top 10 BLs of the year for a couple of different reasons, but yeah, for what is worth, you’re not alone

let’s hope the last three episodes can up the stakes and tie up all the loose ends somewhat nicely!!!!

[aro-attorneys]

God. Second attempt at writing a sort of coherent Good Omens Season 2 rant/review/thoughts. Whatever you want to call it.

First, things I really enjoyed:

Pre-fall Crowley scene. Though this was not liked as much by some other critical Book fans. I understand from canon-conflicting perspective, but TV and Book Omens are separate in my head (sorry Neil Gaiman I can't buy the Same Canon thing)

The flashbacks scene (especially the one with Job and the Resurrectionist, the zombie one was kinda bad though)

Aziraphale getting to use the Bentley

Ok that's all that stood out to me of what I really liked. Time to complain!

God I'll just...start with The Kiss. I saw spoilers for it before I got a chance to watch it and immediately felt disappointment. I do like the Ineffable Husband ship, but I liked it as this...vague thing they kinda had going on in the back. They absolutely did not need an angsty one-sided confession scene with a forced kiss. Everything about it felt so inorganic too. I was trying to be open to the possible (different/romantic) chemistry they might have in s2, but it never happened. Instead there was Nina and telling Crowley he's in love with Aziraphale. Even though nothing really indicated that? To the public they could just be friends?

They did make more "gay jokes" (like they did once in season 1, which I did not like, it was very amatonormative which goes against the vibes those two have). Did not like those. Felt forced.

I have made posts before about the lack of aro and qpr representation in media and Yes that does play into why I did not like this ending of the season. It felt like this possible representation was forcibly taken away from me. I get to be sad about that. It's technically a separate argument but I'm throwing it here anyway.

Aside from That, the vibes of season 2 was...not really Good Omens? I really love the season 1 adaptation on so many levels. It is not perfect and there is valid criticism to be given, but overall it catches the absurdist comedy and relevance of everyone at play Very Well. Both the book and the show have this "ah it's all coming together" thing that's executed so well. I agree Crowley and Aziraphale got more of a main character role in the Show vs. The Book (where the humans and nonhumans are equally important/get similar screentime). And they amplified this in season 2. This post-book "canon" seems to focus a lot on Crowley and Aziraphale, which feels Wrong. They don't work on their own like they did in the Book/s1. It was their interaction with Earth and its Humans that made them shine in the end. Giving them their own problems to deal with was incredibly uninteresting. This is probably why the flashbacks stood out to me more. ...Yeah, I think it boils down to them not being as interesting on their own.

(of course when fans draw Book Omens Ineffable Husbands it's a different thing altogether, but art or comics usually don't have TV-style drama)

I feel I should say something about Gabriel and Beelzebub? It caught me by surprise that I just laughed when I saw it unfold. It was just very weird idk. I will miss Beelzebub though, I loved their trash gender vibes (then again, the new actor did not sell the vibes as well as the previous actor).

This season made me dive a little into the Book Omens fandom again and made me realise how much I missed the Book. I read it back in 2017 and a lot of fine details are lost on me. I want to read it again for sure. I see a lot of mixed reactions from Book fans on this season. Oftentimes criticism of different kinds, sometimes someone who did kind of like the season.

Overall I hate it when a screen adaptation takes a fandom over. I have to see incredibly bad takes on the Ineffable Husbands every day since the show came out.

In short: it was mostly not as interesting/memorable and I am pissed off about the kiss scene that I have to see everywhere.

[craw-dacious]

The things I did by Lolo-ro fic review

Chapter by chapter, until i got distracted by the story lol.

Still fairly new to marauders but am loving it.

summary review: I truly adored this fic, probably my fave Wolfstar so far. I thought the worldbuilding was fantastic, as well as the characterization of baby Harry. Fairly angsty, but with plenty of fluff to make up for it. The raising Harry idea is becoming one of my favorite tropes, and this fic did an amazing job of weaving parenthood into a world that is still filled with complexities and evil, as well as lives outside of the main characters.

SPOILERS BELOW BEWARE

Chapter One

Again, the aftermath for Remus is getting me

So so so sad, and him believing Sirius innocent  makes it worse

The traitor shit is horrible to deal with emotionally im sure

I am upset to realize just how much remus ignored harry in the books/canon

Like thats ur nephew fr come onnnn

Chapter Two

Aw he’s doing a good job as a dad

This fic is making him out to be very forgetful, fully forgot about both harry and Sirius

The pacing is much more clear in this which I enjoy quite a bit

Cutesy Christmas, cutesy harry

ALSO I LOVED THE HAGRID MOMENT

I do feel like we need to get the Weasleys involved tbh baby Ron and Harry is PEAK

Chap 3

Pls dont let that annoying ass bitch be important, if theyre in trouble bc of this shit ill kms

Shut up Hagrid he needs everything he wants his parents ARE dead brother

Okay actually I like that annoying ass bitch a lot, this is very good

I guess he actually is spoiling him tbf

Ok so he’s actually forgetful as fuck. Forgot Harry’s birthday, forgot about Sirius AGAIN.

Like actually what is going on is his brain damaged

This chapter has been depressing

The fight IN AZKABAN how will this turn into legit wolfstar if they are so mad they fight WHILE SIRIUS IS IMPRISONED

But also he didn’t talk to a single person for 12 years in canon im gonna kms

Marauders is making me realize just how shitty and sad canon was bruh, remus and Sirius were like ALONE, obvie remus did shit and wasn’t a complete waste but its just so SAD

OKAYYYY I TOLD Y’ALL I LOVE A GOOD MOODY MOMENT

Literally obsessed with alastor moody he’s so fucking cool and we BARELY KNEW HIM in the books because of FUCKING CROUCH

This chapter was incredible, good baby harry, good angst, good FIGHT (love romantic arguments, make me nostalgic) (imy [REDACTED] we fought so cutey)

Ok I think I complained earlier about this, but it’s important for there to be conflict and issues when there’s this much trauma. Great plot choice. Also makes it 20x more interesting

Fuck Peter. I fucking hate Peter.

Chapter 4

Ugh stupid muggles messing everything up

Someone should try to kill them all off or something idk they’re getting in the way

But this is shaping up to have some LEGAL ISSUES which I LOVE because im a fucking NERD <33333

Harry is so cute. I actually prefer this to the last baby Harry bc he has sm more personality.

Almost forgot the meat of this chapter omg its good im getting distracted

Sirius and Harry together was a NEED bruh actually so cute

And I talked to you kate about this earlier but remus has been different in other fics and I do kinda like him in this one, he’s more depressed and stressed than normal, but the forgetfulness almost lends itself to aloofness in a way that fits him

I very much appreciated him being so kind to Sirius. While I understand him being pissed at him for thinking he’s a traitor, the man is in Azkaban, like you’ve got to chill out, talk to him about this stuff when you have more than 15 minutes and less dementors

Anyway that scene was nice, I like the idea of their little family

Chappy 5

Good shit again

THIS is the perfect chapter length, not so long I forget what happens but no so short I have to stop reading every five seconds to review

The werewolf prejudice is a big thing in this fic, im not sure how I feel about it. Obviously from an equality standpoint, werewolves should be seen as human. Yet, there is something to the idea that the actual transformed wolf is very dangerous. I’m worried the wolfsbane study will be viewed as Remus “hiding himself” or something like that, when it should be viewed as a solution to the one thing holding werewolves back.

This can’t be compared to real life discrimination. You can’t be like “so you hate minorities” because none of the minorities I know turn into wolves once a month bruh

Anyway, Dumbledore being morally grey-ish, making mistakes but always anti-voldy. He’s such an interesting character. I like his presence in the book as well. Hagrid should come back soon he’s so nice.

Chap 6

Permanent pass <3, so cute. Having to abandon muggle friends? Not cute. Fuck Dumbledore, but only like a little

Not a dumby stan or hater tbh hes just a little silly in both directions

I’m so conflicted on this situation. Yes, it SUCKS that Sirius thought remus was the spy, but it’s not necessarily damning. It’s likely he convinced himself of it because it was the most painful option so it must’ve been the truth. It seems like fear, almost, and jealousy of the wolves over him? Might be over analyzing and overomanticizing but that is what im seeing atm.

The teaching position goes fucking CRAZY man, If remus was my history teacher my life would be GOLDEN

Do you think remus lupin would be a good addition to upper H hall yes or no

Chapter 7

Jesus fuck I forget how sad all this shit is sometimes

To begin with, the teaching position seems great. I do wish Remus would understand that he’s qualified for it

Speaking of teachers, I would love to see who the DADA teacher is, I know its not permanent but still fun

Anyway, I think 7 kids would be the end of me. I love children, and I still relate to Remus far more than Arthur in that scene, there’s actually no fucking way.

Like yes give me a shot I cannot do it, the strong drink joke was a good cover because I am sure its Arthurs greatest desire

Also, love him just dropping interest about muggles, would love to see that chat actually play out but it seems unimportant

But maybe it’ll be how he catches worm tail …

Azkaban visit was good, Sirius is being less racist, and Remus is being kind. Wish they would love each other again already but slow burn wins <3

Also you could just tell that Sirius missed harry, very cute

Chapter 8

Heart hurts, poor Sirius 

I said that remus should be nicer

Chapter 9

Okay, information has been gained

Sorry for short 8 summary

So Sirius FORGOT that he and remus broke up, which is CRAZY

There’s a whole lot of forgetting in this fic im realizing, very relatable

I would actually kill myself

I’m sitting here pondering how I would react in this situation and genuinely tweaking just imagining it

He needs to go break it off with him, he can explain, there’s not really another option for him. If he maintains this it’s going to end poorly. I’m assuming he’s going to do that anyway, as it creates the most drama and is fantastic for the plot

I do think Remus is underestimating the importance of being taken even somewhat seriously by the Wizengamot. I know it’s not what he fully wanted but it’s legitimate progress.

Chapter ten

WHAT DID I SAY HE’S NOT GONNA TELL HIM

This chapter INFURIATED ME

Also im gonna start skipping chapters bc otherwise the review will be long asf

Snape is a piece of work, obviously. Like Remus isn’t being shitty to you and you were a fucking death eater man. Also he despises children which is a red fucking flag

Just let him pet your stupid cat motherfucker

Unless its secretly regulus as an animagus that would be sick asf I saw fan art the other day where he was a cat and it was good

Moving on, im appreciating the slow burn on discovering Peter. Like they easily could have discovered him 3 chapters ago when remus was first there. 

Chapter 11 & 12

The enchanted parchment

Leaving him on delivered is crazy actually

Literally reads exactly like the GHP texts between me and [REDACTED] LMAO

“I guess I’ll talk to you later, assuming you’re at soccer, imy!!”

Actually devastated reading this im going to be honest

Lots of shit going down, forgetting and memory issues are such an interesting plot device, it makes any part of the story unreliable, and confuses the reader just a little bit. It also creates a lot of dramatic irony, which can often be very sad and tragic

Also, order members calling voldy “Voldemort” all high and mighty is a bit strange considering that they all chewed harry out about calling him “He Who Shall Not be Named”

Snape stole the parchment read it and slipped a potion into lupins chocolate that he would give to Sirius to sabotage their relationship

Bc Dumbledore told Snape everything as his extra special spy obviously

Ok so I was wrong it was dementors again. And remus told Sirius about the breakup. Which is, the right thing to do I guess

This is so hard for everybody man, Sirius’ perspective is heartbreaking

At least it shows his chats with dumby, who happens to be the funniest person in this fic

Chapters 13 & 14

Reconciliation came a bit too easily but thats alright, I want them to be happy

The amount I would give to receive a cat for Christmas. I want that so bad bruh.

Ok at least they’re acknowledging how bad Remus is with dates

Okay him being a dog seems helpful, I do feel like that should have been noticed a while ago

Honestly am feeling a bit lost in the romance, long distance pining is not my fave but hopefully Sirius will be freed before long and they can be happy for once.

I just am so curious as to why they broke up, I know thats the point but it just doesn’t make sense

Also ignore my random theories I keep throwing about, I dont actually believe snapes cat is regulus or that Snape poisoned Sirius its just fun

Chapters 15-16

They explained the plan so I know it will go horribly wrong

HELL FUCKING YEAH THEY GOT HIM THAT SNEAKY LITTLE CUNT HATE THAT MOTHERFUCKER FUCK PETER I HATE PETER

Still not happy. I dont know what I expected

2 chapters and they’ll kiss, im expecting a huge fight in chapter 17

Chapters 17-20

Ok this is strange. The relationship dynamic has developed very differently than I thought it would. They really need to figure out this memory I’m sure it all a misunderstanding or some stupid shit like that

Someone thought someone else killed somebody else

Also why is this so mirroring to me and [REDACTED] from like July forward

Distant over text/parchment, not allowed to say I love you, basically only physical, guilt for things I couldn’t remember

Except for the baby and trauma and everything

Last fic was me and remus being the same this time it’s Sirius. When am I going to consume content and not think about [REDACTED] again Im tired of him being in my brain

Chap 21-22

KATE I TOLD YOU NO I LOVE YOU FICS I HATE THIS

I also talked about [redacted] with ppl for like an hour and a half last night it was terrible

Did it again the next night bro why is that rat still in my head

23-24

The memories are throwing me for a loop. On the one hand, everything is devastatingly sad. On the other hand, they’re all being emo and need to get it together

Sirius getting “lost in his memories” is a cool idea though, I’m liking the new magic thats being explored in this fic

I need them to have a huge blowup fight. Like a massive fight that sucks and is terrible. I don’t know how they’d do it but I need it

Also I think I can take one more “oh poor Sirius” memory until I blow my brains out. Big whoop your plan failed and you were insecure about it, I’d reach out to the closest person to blame to. I blamed [REDACTED] for not winning an award at model un, not his fault. Sirius can blame Remus for his plan failing and have a moody moment then move on, trust can be rebuilt.

Last five chapters

Ok everything is happy again and the reunion went FANTASTIC

The one thing I feel like I haven’t commented on enough in this fic is Snape

His character is well done, he’s so mean and bitchy but not like completely evil which is just hilarious, I love his and Remus’s dynamic its very good

I also think his relationship with Harry is funny, and I’m glad it’s not as shitty as it started out.

“Harry, friendly and bright-eyed, took the opportunity of silence to lean onto the counter, put his face right up to the goblin’s, and say, “Meow.”

Remus pulled Harry off the counter, embarrassed, and plopped him on the ground. “Don’t meow at people, love.”

That is actually the silliest cutest thing I’ve ever read in my entire life. Literally would birth a child rn bc of how cute that is. Jesus fucking christ bruh

Can they stop making out in public. Like in front of one other person in public. Its so awk

I KEEP TRYING TO GIVE KUDOS THIS IS LIKE SUGAR BRUH SO SWEET

My criticisms are growing though, there are a few things im concerned about but im gonna finish the story before I discuss

Why can I not escape my Draco phase. One sentence about “the little Malfoy” and harry going on playdates and I RUSH to think about how that changes their school dynamic and how they treat each other and all this shit

Looks like they’re leaving some loose ends on purpose, telling not showing a lot here at the end tbh

I WANT A CHILD HE’S SO CUTE

This is the first time ive actually been obsessed with a child character hes ADORABLE

Gonna read the epilogue before writing my final review, but don’t want to take it in for my review

FINAL REVIEW:

Ok. Done. Having to write this a day after finishing because I fell asleep right after

My favorite parts

ANGST: very well done, miscommunication can sometimes be overdone but I feel like it worked this time. I loved how easily apparent the love that was still there was. 

Humor: This fic made me laugh out loud multiple times. This was mostly Harry, but there were a couple of moments from the doctor guy and Arthur that made me giggle

CHILD: literally have never seen a child portrayal that was this good. Like literally from beginning to end it was good. I’m sure some people would read this fic and say 2 yo harry is too advanced, but he’s so bright and I feel like growing up with Remus would breed him to be a talker. The accuracy of the 8 yo and 11 yo at the end was good as well, it ticks me off when people fuck up ages of a child, especially one so parenting-focused as this

Depth of world building: I could truly see this world, like I understood the flat, I understood the weasleys, I understood the dorm at Hogwarts. The scene at their graves, everything was great.

Now my weaknesses

Some underdeveloped plots

Peter: they brought up having to talk to him, made it a big deal with getting a memory and then just abandoned it and said “remus had the perfect memory.” Then, the memory was SO MUNDANE. I’m sure the author just fucked up and had to figure something out, which is fine, just was a little dissapointing.

Poison: this is another where I think the plot just ran away from the author, but I was expecting something more than “Sirius asked them to fix it and they did”

Some(?) characterizations

Remus was perfect. Sirius was a little too nice, he’s volatile and little bitt crazy and I got less of that in this fic. Sometimes it was perfect. This isn’t really a criticism, more “it could be a little better”

Overall: 8.3/10

I truly adored this fic, probably my fave wolfstar so far. However, I know this is just because I love children and loved baby harry so much, so my rating is attempting to be unbiased.

[ingravinoveritas]

So, I just finished watching Staged and I'm having so many mixed feels. One of the weirder impressions I got was it seemed almost like a vehicle to put a wedge between Michael and David. I esp hated the ep where Georgia did all the stuff to the office room (messed with the thermostat, starved them, etc) just to get them to bitch at each other (and then admitted that it was cos "people like to watch that". Er, no. I like banter as much as anyone, but the energy of this series seemed idk...wrong?

Hi, Anons! These are both completely valid opinions and I very much appreciate you both feeling comfortable enough to write in and share them with me.

Anon #1: I had a lot of mixed feelings watching Staged 3, too. I think the episode you’re specifically referencing is episode 4, and I also thought that much of that seemed really contrived. I get needing to create conflict to have a show, but it seemed like there’s so little natural conflict between Michael and David that Simon had to fabricate something, and it just went sort of beyond the limits of believability. (This was also just confirmed by David in a Times Radio interview that was released today.)

I think that in real life, if Michael and David ever did fight for any reason, Georgia knows the fight would last for about two minutes and then they’d find their way back to each other, without any intervention. The banter between Michael and David that we love so much doesn’t need to be engineered or cajoled, because it just happens naturally. I almost wonder if Simon deliberately went over the top because he knew no one would ever buy Michael and David “breaking up” in episode 6 unless he chose to be heavy-handed about it. Which then contributed to the energy of this series feeling the way it did.

And Anon #2, that ties into what you have said as well. That defensiveness, particularly in the scene with David/Georgia and Michael/AL reading the “reviews” of Staged 3. It was indeed very meta, but rather than that “meta” being the show not taking itself seriously, it seemed to not take the audience seriously. It was the idea that “You don’t get this series because you’re not clever enough” as opposed to, “You don’t get this series because Simon is trying too hard to be clever” (which is what I felt was actually the case). 

To me, the funniest/best parts of Staged 3 were the ones farthest from the script. The little moments that weren’t rehearsed, and that let Michael and David be something more closely approximating themselves. It could be that some of the characters were dependent on the meta-ness to be relevant/have something to do with the plot, but not Michael and David. They have and always will work best just being who they are, together.

I also noticed some really interesting choices in terms of the dynamics this series chose to play up, and which parts of the characters were exaggerated/highlighted. I think the self-awareness tended to be apparent where it possibly wasn’t meant to be (as opposed to the scenes that were, and tried too hard to be). The place we got to at the end of episode 6 was ultimately where things got much better/how things should’ve been all along, but the process of getting there just seemed very circuitous and unnecessary.

Much of this is things I intend to cover in my analysis/review, so I don’t want to add too much more here. But I love that we are having these robust discussions and I very much enjoyed reading your thoughts, Anons. Thanks for writing in! x