#healthy syscourse

[insertsyscoursehere]

So since I’m a nominee, I want to start out with a fun one for cool and less mind-numbing discussion:

When system members are dating and one commits an act of violence on the other, how do you handle the potential breakup?

(Let’s see how long the thread can go. OvO )

[kindnessoverperfection]

I think a lot of discourse boils down to the idea that there's One Right Answer for everything. But the world, and individual people, are far too complex for that.

For example, a very common pattern of conflict I see is this-

"[blank] was very harmful to me, and set me back a lot." "But [blank] was what finally helped me understand and work through everything."

And instead of approaching the subject with curiosity and compassion, it becomes a fight over which is "correct".

A much more helpful conversation is, "How can we provide fuller information to help people figure out what's best for them?"

[imjustaf444keriguess]

@sotiredofendos wanted to tag you in this too so you can see my reblog to another persons post that uses the same source as you do.

they blocked me but your "traumadissociation.com" source mentions healthy multiplicity and sources a guy that talks about non-disordered "parts" (plurality/systemhood/multiplicity) and i wanted to let you know that colin ross, one of the doctors cited by that website, disagrees with you. lmao

[greens-spilled-tea]

Anyways something I've noticed is how different spaces have such different reactions towards fusion and splitting. Certain spaces seem to celebrate the formation of a new alter/headmate and are even envious of systems with high alter/headmate counts. I've even come across the question of "how do yall cope with fusions?" with the implication that fusion means the alters/headmates go away or are no longer needed. On the other side of the equation, I've been in spaces where splitting is seen as unequivocally a negative experience while fusion is celebrated. And honestly this difference in opinion and experience is something I want to explore more and understand better. Why is there such a difference? Is this a difference between non-CDD systems and CDD system experiences, or endogenic and traumagenic systems, or something else entirely?

[countless-users]

I hate syscourse btw but like what is the problem with saying an alter is non-verbal?? some of our brainpals are nonverbal nd we think its a fine term? nonverbal quite literally means "not verbal / incapable of being verbal" so what's the issue with alters using it???

-- sonnet

[cambriancrew]

I think part of our issue with syscoursing - like the thing that makes it unhealthy for us at times and makes us dig in when we shouldn't and what makes us keep going past the point where it's harmful for the people we're arguing against...

We have a very positive view of arguing. For us, arguing is inherently a neutral thing, leaning towards positive. You can argue without fighting. Fighting is when arguing becomes dirty - when you start attacking each other instead of the topic. We argue with each other regularly. The distinction between a disagreement and an argument for us is that a disagreement is a matter of opinions that aren't strongly held and ultimately are subjective. Arguments are over things you want to prove objectively true or false, or right or wrong, and/or things you're committed to believing one way or another. For us, if a stance or fact or belief can't stand up to criticism and debate, it's not worth holding or believing in. Also we enjoy the process.

But for other people, it's not like that, and can easily get into mud slinging territory, and even a far way away from that territory can feel like a personal attack.

Which isn't to say that we never feel like calling people idiots, though we mostly only do that with people showing intentional, willful ignorance. Like trying to claim that a source says something it absolutely doesn't say anything remotely close to, proving they didn't look at the source at all. Like no matter what your stance is that's just plain stupid behavior. It's not kind though, and so we're going to be consciously choosing not to do that from here on out. Which means, for starters, we're no longer going to be using our Twitterpated idiots tag for posting about arguments had on Twitter. Gonna take some time to think about what we'll use from here on out.

We very rarely fight. Our last actual fight was when we were married and our ex was trying to pressure us into getting rid of our Crew. Varyn was willing to dissipate, but others, led by Aery, were willing to fight tooth and nail to stay, and some unkind words, to put it mildly, were said between Varyn and Aery and the others.

Idk where I'm going with this.

But yeah. We're going to start trying to be more proactively kind and considerate in syscourse. Because it's not right for us to cause harm by way of the fact that we view arguments as not harmful - what's not harmful to us, may be to others, and we need to be consciously aware of that.

Anyone we've ever harmed through syscourse, through arguing past the point of causing harm, past the point where it diverges from arguing into fighting and being unkind, we're sorry. We're going to try and do better.

One of our core principles in our Code of Conduct is Do No Harm (as much as is humanly possible) and in 2025 we're going to focus harder on living that out. (And our other two Code of Conduct principles, Take Responsibility, and Encourage Growth in Self and Others, which both tie into this.)

We're going to do our best. And we would encourage other syscoursers to do the same.

[sysmedsaresexist]

Penny for your thoughts?

It was suggested that it might help me, mentally, if I created a new blog.

🌟 A SASsy New Drama Blog 🌟

A large part of the reason that I try not to engage with people making weird claims against me is because... that's just not what this blog is for. It's not a personal blog. It's a blog meant for you guys, my followers. I actually don't have a "personal" blog where I can vent or talk about myself in relation to my systemhood and online identity.

This blog is meant to educate and make people laugh. It's for spreading resources. It's for combating real misinformation that has real-world consequences.

There are people who have zero interest in me and my life outside of the resources I post. I don't want to bother people with my problems. I don't want to air my dirty laundry in front of people who genuinely don't want to see it and can't consent to seeing.

However, I have always struggled with silence. I firmly believe that letting people get away with lying, manipulative behaviour tells them that they will continue to get away with it.

**This is not an attack on people who couldn't or didn't fight back, internet drama is not the same thing, and it's okay to walk away from situations without ever addressing it, online or irl

A blog like this could have benefits, and people can block it if they don't want to see it. But for people who want to see the full story, I can get my side out there without feeling guilt for bothering any of you with it. I can vent, maybe.

Obviously, though, there is something to be said about not engaging.

The mods are torn. I'm torn.

I'm putting it to you all.

[insertsyscoursehere]

Gonna add more thoughts, sorry if it’s long.

I really do agree on your take with sociological studies being better suited to endogenics. My academic history is with religious studies, which is a really weird sort of mix of literary analysis, human geography, and sociology, so sociological lenses absolutely make more sense.

And yeah that’s the other thing with fakeclaiming—they don’t care and intellectual honesty. Fakeclaimers only desire to silence as many systems as they can because anything outside their rigid worldview is too scary. The truth that’s they either don’t understand or refuse to embrace is that being proven wrong is a wonderful thing. It’s an opportunity to learn and grow and appreciate diversity.

The fakeclaiming really only works when we conflate diagnosis with a final judgement of mental state, when in reality the psychiatry field doesn’t focus on just a single diagnosis, but rather how it manifests.

As a result of newer research, we’re understanding that the brain doesn’t work in binaries generally. We’ve already started motions towards declassifying schizophrenia as a single diagnosis and recontextualizing it into a broader “psychosis spectrum”, which also includes things like psychotic depression.

Dissociative disorders should be headed in a similar direction— dissociative symptoms can be found in several non-CDD disorders, including bipolar depression and Borderline Personality Disorder. But I also think that looking through the differences in symptoms is vital— there’s a difference between dissociation that does and doesn’t result in identity disturbance.

I’ve been fakeclaimed by a psych minor. Granted, his classes were in child and developmental psychology and not AbPsych but it still was awful. Funniest thing? I never claimed to have DID/OSDD. I claimed systemhood because of other disorders that have similar features. And yet it didn’t matter, because why would it?

To the outsider who doesn’t understand, people think we (systems like us) claim systemhood to be quirky or special when there’s nothing special about how our minds adapt to handle turbulence. Our system personally wears it as a badge of honor— we resurfaced as a collective after being forced into dormancy by the same fakeclaimer, who we had FP’ed. So we owe it to ourselves to be honest after trying to be what we aren’t for the comfort of others.

Sorry, back on track.

The fakeclaimers who use 80s papers to justify their asshole behavior are acting the same way that anti-vaxxers act when they bring up that single debunked paper from the 90s— scientific illiteracy is rampant, especially in America. But when we use faulty knowledge to hurt others, it only adds to a stigma that systems— and neurodivergent folks in general— are constantly trying to overcome.

I hope you have a nice day. My weeks been good so far and I wanna send my energy to you now. Cheers!!

—Leveret

i'm starting to think that some of you guys either just don't read medical literature, or don't know how, and just say that you do.

[sophieinwonderland]

i mean, in a sense, your home self might fit as an exile and your work self might be a manager and your party self might be a firefighter or something

but now that you do mention the literal roles in IFS, I haven't seen one anti endo mention them.... like ever

Right?

And the home self and work self are referenced all the time despite having no basically no role in IFS in what I've read.

It's like all the anti-endos are just getting their (mis)information about IFS from other anti-endos.

Just for reference:

I think if work selves and home selves were separate parts at all under this model, they would probably both fall under the categories of Managers most of the time. But I do think a "party self" being a firefighter makes a lot of sense.

[thestarseersystem]

SIGH.

You do not always have to do "source separation" with your introjects in order to have a healthy system.

Only do it if alters *want* to. If they don't want to, you're only forcing them to be someone they're not and that's cruel.

We have only a few alters who've done it. OF THEIR OWN ACCORD. We've never pushed for that.

Besides, we have like a bagillion introject fragments. Why in gods name would we do something so inconvenient?

Like. Before considering what's healthy and what's not, consider what your other system members want. That's how you get a healthy system, by respecting each other's wishes and feelings.

[buildabettermeme]

How do I get elitist anti- everything systems off my fucking recommended follows??

I dont like dealing with elitist pieces of shit. If you think the only kind of system is a traumatized system, despite the fact that I am a trauma-created system myself, I want nothing to do with you. You damage the community and make people feel worthless and hopeless and unloved, and I'm just not fucking okay with that. Fuck you.

This is an invitation to block me if you support any of this anti- bullshit, because Im getting tired of blocking every single one of you when you interrupt my feed with traumagenic supremacy when Im trying to find people who dont gaf if someone has something so basic and LOGICAL as an introject, or even many, because that is perfectly normal, especially in trauma-created systems. Telling endos and similar that they should kill themselves for being a "faker" is a hallmark of traumagenic supremacy that makes me go into a blind rage. It makes me want to throttle you with my bare hands.

I dont care what your excuse is: "A cult abused me" Yeah, me too. "Ive been filmed as a teen/child/infant for CP purposes" Yeah, same bud. "My parents isolated me from everyone growing up to abuse me" Yeah fucking Me Too. "Family members have molested me" Wow, we sound super similar. "My mom made me beat/molest an animal/person/object" YUP. ME. TOO. "Ive had exorcisms/rites/ceremonies performed upon me" WOW. Did we have the same abuser ring? /Half-gen

I DONT CARE WHAT YOU LIVED THROUGH, OR WHAT I LIVED THROUGH. YOU DONT TELL PEOPLE TO SUICIDE FOR ANY REASON, ESPECIALLY FOR BEING A SYSTEM, REGARDLESS OF HOW. YOU ALSO DONT FAKECLAIM THEM. YOU PIECE OF SHIT.

I can be a survivor of horrific abuse myself without being an absolutely shitty human being to anyone who isnt like me. Who could've thought of that??? /Sarcasm

If someone has a better method than blocking a fuck ton of tags, even ones that could include myself, I'd love to hear it. /Genuine

[sysciety]

how are source calls anti recovery?

It encourages source attachment (If you don't want the read the rest, that's the tldr)

Source calls are normally seeking out someone who was friends with you in your source because you already have 'familiarity' with them. These are normally done across systems which means that bodily you might end up getting matched with a total stranger.

The concept in general is just friend finding which is fine. But when the basis of the relationship is being in the same source it's a bit of a false similarity (false is the wrong word but I'm not sure what else to call it). Like it's the idea of being separated from someone you once knew and now you're reunited that's feeding into source attachment.

Source attachment ("I am x from y") is at the very least an identity barrier and regardless of how much someone has of it I don't think they should be encouraged to lean into it (i.e Don't reality check but don't feed it)

[lostwoodsnco]

while it's not a bad thing, even my therapist says sitting in dissociaton does not help. We're supposed to snap ourselves out of it if we noticed it, in the end it is NOT healthy. Lowering your dissociation is healthy, not continuing it and making it worse by letting it happen.

Guys. Has everyone somehow forgotten that not all dissociation is bad. And that even for those that struggle with dissociation some dissociation would still be healthy. And that this level of dissociation that is healthy is going to vary for everyone. Guys. Guysssss.

[tearosecafe]

HOT TAKE. IF YOU AREN'T A SYSTEM, YOU SHOULDN'T INVOLVE YOURSELF IN CONVERSATIONS RELATING TO SYSTEM ISSUES OR SYSCOURSE. IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW MUCH "RESEARCH" YOU'VE DONE. YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO ARGUE ABOUT SOMEONE'S VALIDITY WHEN YOU AREN'T EVEN PART OF THE COMMUNITY YOU'RE ARGUING FOR OR AGAINST.

-🐇

Edit: I feel like this is being misinterpreted. We 100% support singlets participating in healthy discussion as long as they don't, yknow, speak over/for systems. We also 100% support systems masking as singlets being involved in system discussions. This post was specifically about actual non-systems involving themselves in origin/validity debates trying to "defend" certain systems. To us, it feels very similar to when someone makes a joke about a group and someone who doesn't belong to that group gets offended on their behalf even if people who ARE part of the group don't care at all. Also the post was kind of vaguely directed at a few specific people from a server we're in. We have trouble with wording things in a clear way sometimes, and we're sorry if we came across as rude or gatekeep-y.

-Sky

[turnitsysclusive]

Taking a step away from discourse is healthy and Syscourse isn't an exception. Here's some plural related things you can do instead:

Finish your simply plural accounts (finish them NEOWWWWW)

Vent to a friend in private (more validating AND just as fun)

Join a plural discord server

Make accessories for certain alters only (paper accessories, Kandi bracelets, etc...)

Make a Syscourse-free blog

Positively interact with other plural blogs (seriously we should all send each asks more)

Log off (genuinely can be helpful, especially if you have notifications on)

[guardianssystem]

Tumblr Post of our Endogenic and Non-traumagenic Plurality Research

EDIT: THIS POST IS OUTDATED COMPARED TO THE LINKED DOCUMENT. PLEASE CHECK THE DOCUMENT FIRST. THANK YOU

Endogenic & Non-Traumagenic Plurality

By Guardians System, a diagnosed traumagenic DID system with PTSD and CPTSD

For use by everyone, to be read by EVERYONE

Brought to you by sysmeds who say “I’m not reading all that” (/j)

Feel free to DM on Twitter at GuardiansSystemOpen for anonymous questions on Tellonym also under GuardiansSystemOtherwise, just comment! :)

Lists of Links

Put together by community members! (Not thoroughly checked)

Plurality/Multiplicity + Syscourse Resources and Findings

Pastebin by ButterflyBlood - contains info from the DSM-3 to the DSM-V, medical info, community info, Tulpa info, syscourse info, and a video

Cambrian's Thread of Experts

Thread by the Cambrian Crew - contains info from Dr Eric Yarbrough (Distinguished Fellow of the American Psychiatric Association), info from Dr Nijenhuis and Van Der Hart (two of the writers of the Theory of Structural Dissociation), info from the ICD-11 and DSM-V-TR, and an interview by Dr Richard Loewenstein (lead editor of the DSM-V’s section on DIssociative Disorders)

Studies into non-disordered and/or endogenic plurality

Pastebin by Oliviaset - contains multiple science/government links and a video

Collected Plurality Info - 8 pages of resources - Fractal System

Document by The Fractal System - contains explanations on multiple types of plurality and references links to each, contains community info, history info, academic info, and more

Scientific Papers on Endogenic Plurality - r/Plural

Post and comments by numerous systems/supporters - contains a massive amount of uncategorised links to all types of information on non-traumagenic plurality

Multiplicity Links - SARAH K REECE

Site by Sarah K Reece - a previously diagnosed traumagenic DID system that no longer fits the criteria but is still a system, links focus mainly on general helpful system information

Scientific Articles on Nondisordered Systems

Document by Tabellenblatt1 (?) - contains info specific to non-disordered plurality, including the interview by Dr Richard Loewenstein

Ex Uno Plures - Articles

Community site by Plures House - contains explanations on plurality, info on living plural, info on personal experiences, medical info, philosophical info, social info, and syscourse info

An Endogenic Proof Masterlist - Plural Anomaly

Document by Plural Anomaly - contains community info, academic info, and criticisms on the Theory of Structural Dissociation

Plurality Studies - Multiplicity and Plurality Wiki

Wiki made by numerous community members - contains uncategorised abstracts from medical info and info on Tulpas

Non-Traumagenic & Endogenic System Information

General medical/clinical studies and research

It's just a body: A community-based participatory exploration of the experiences and health care needs for transgender plural people

Study by numerous people including a system - repeatedly references and explains multiple types of plurality, both traumagenic and non-traumagenic

Multiplicity: An Explorative Interview Study on Personal Experiences of People with Multiple Selves

Study by numerous people - uses some outdated language, however, explores how systems exist both with and without Dissociative Identity Disorder

Conceptualising multiplicity spectrum experiences: a systematic review and thematic synthesis

Study by numerous people - explores how multiplicity exists outside of Dissociative Identity Disorder in a medical context in order to recommend appropriate health services

Critiquing the Requirement of Oneness over Multiplicity: An Examination of  Dissociative Identity (Disorder) in Five Clinical Texts (Alternative Link)

Study by Kymbra Clayton - explains how multiple selves can be healthy without the need for singularity

NORMAL DIMENSIONS OF MULTIPLE PERSONALITY WITHOUT AMNESIA

Study by multiple people - uses slightly outdated language, describes how multiplicity can be considered natural without the dissociative disorders, and how the dissociative disorders could simply be expanding upon multiplicity

Cognitive processes in dissociation: An analysis of core theoretical assumptions

Study by numerous people - discusses potentially healthy dissociation and the existence of dissociation without trauma

MODES OF EXISTENCE: TOWARDS A PHENOMENOLOGICAL POLYPSYCHISM

Study by Mick Cooper - discusses alternative ways for multiple selves to exist

A plurality of selves? An illustration of polypsychism in a recovered addict

Study by Peter T.F. Raggatt - discusses the normality of non-traumagenic multiplicity and different ways for natural plurality to exist

A Jungian Perspective on the Dissociability of the Self

Study by Brian R. Skea - includes multiple mentions of Freud, extremely explicit and triggering language, and repeated use of outdated terms, however helps to provide an understanding of much older views on non-traumagenic dissociation and plurality

TRANSGENDER Mental Health - chapter 11

Book by Dr. Eric Yarbrough of the American Psychiatric Association - states repeatedly throughout the chapter that plurality is only a part of dissociative identity disorder and exists without the disorder, as well as trauma only being reported in some cases of plurality and that trauma is not the only cause for plurality, and states that plurality itself is only a collection of alters

"I've Learned to Treat my Characters like People": Varieties of Agency and Interaction of Writers' Experiences of their Characters' Voices

Study by multiple people - describes authors’ common experience of accidental multiplicity caused by their characters gaining autonomy

Dissociation in Trauma: A New Definition and Comparison with Previous Formulations

Article by Ellert R S Nijenhuis and Onno van der Hart (two of the writers of the Theory of Structural Dissociation) - page 27, at the end of the article, they recognise mediumship and similar practices as a “division of personality,” which is what they refer to the dissociative disorders as

Exploring the Experiences of Young People with Multiplicity

Research by Zarah Eve and Sarah Perry - begins with multiplicity only sometimes being applicable for a DID/OSDD diagnosis, and continues that multiplicity itself and the dissociative disorders are not the same, as well as some respondents not associating their multiplicity with trauma alongside the dissociative disorders not applying to some of the respondents, and having a section for some multiplicity not being based in trauma

Comparison of Brazilian spiritist mediumship and dissociative identity disorder

Study by multiple people - in comparing Dissociative Identity Disorder with Brazilian Spiritist Mediumship, it was found the two shared very similar results, only that the Mediumship results appeared slightly healthier than DID

Tulpamancy

Studies and research specifically on Tulpas, though can apply to other plurality

Tibetan Buddhist with a Tulpa - Opinion on Plurality

Post by Dharma Yokeyodasampa - a Tibetan Buddhist with a more traditional Tulpa asking community members for questions, discussions include what they think about plurality, western Tulpamancy, how their Tulpa feels, and the difference between western Tulpamancy and the Tibetan practice. (This is a post compiling and explaining most of it, with a response from Dharma.)

Personality Characteristics of Tulpamancers and Their Tulpas

Study by multiple people - examines and explores what Tulpas are, what they do, their role, Tulpa experiences, some history, and more

Sentient companions predicted and modeled into existence: explaining the Tulpa phenomenon

Study by Kaj Sotala - describes a theory on how Tulpas may be psychologically caused via “feedback loops” (can also be applied to various other types of plurality, such as multiplicity caused by authors/artists and caused by other disorders)

A Time for Tulpas

Thesis by Nick Stager - discusses what a Tulpa is, experiences with Tulpas, the development of Tulpas, how other practices may be similar, how an author can accidentally create Tulpas, and more

Tracking the Tulpa - Exploring the "Tibetan" Origins of a Contemporary Paranormal Idea

Book by Natasha L. Mikles and Joseph P. Laycock - explains what Tulpas are, how Tulpas are created both intentionally and unintentionally, some of the history behind Tulpa, and Tulpas based on theosophy instead of the Tibetan practice

Tulpas and Mental Health: A Study of Non-Traumagenic Plural Experiences

Study by Jacob J. Isler - explains what Tulpamancy is and how it can differ from Dissociative Identity Disorder but still be plural 

Paranormalizing the Popular through the Tibetan Tulpa: Or what the next Dalai Lama, the X Files and Affect Theory (might) have in common

Article by Ben Joffe - explains what Tulpas are, how Tulpas develop, Tulpa experiences in the outside world, the difference between Tulpamancy and the Tibetan practice, some of the history behind Tulpas, Theosophy-related Tulpas, and Tibetan Sprulpa experiences

Making Friends - Transcript of a Podcast on Tulpas

(Slightly incorrect: more info here) Discussion by multiple people - explains multiple personal experiences with a Tulpa, actions of a Tulpa, accidental creation of Tulpas through writing, Tulpas taking over the physical body, Tulpas having a different identity, purposeful creation of Tulpas, discussions with professionals (Richard J. Loewenstein,) the difference between Tulpas and psychosis, the similarity between Tulpas and Dissociative Identity Disorder, how without distress then it can’t be disordered, and more

Daring to Hear Voices

Dalai Lama - Buddhist practices are open to those who need them

Clinical Information

Helpful medical information not specifically related to non-traumagenic systems

DID Brain Pattern Study Doesn't Measure Up - December 2018

Critique by Spot&Cerberus - discusses the multiple flaws with the MRI scan on DID patients

Moral Status and the Treatment of DID Study by Timothy J. Bane - discusses the current known treatments for DID in the context of integration being commonly used, how it may be unethical and unhealthy to force integration, and that a multiple can healthily exist

DID, OSDD, and UDD Diagnostic Guide (NZ)

Diagnostic guide by ACC (Accident Compensation Corporation) - the New Zealand guide to diagnosing patients with DID, OSDD, and UDD, includes history of the diagnosis, problems with the diagnosis, alternative diagnoses, requirements for a diagnosis, what to avoid in a diagnosis, what to look for in a diagnosis, and similar

The Theory of Structural Dissociation

Theory by multiple people - the most commonly used theory to explain dissociation, often specifically related to dissociative disorders

Problems with the Theory of Structural Dissociation

Research by multiple people - discusses multiple problems with the Theory of Structural Dissociation, including it being a theory, the discarding of derealisation, depersonalisation, dissociative fugue, dissociative amnesia, the lack of association with trauma and PTSD in the DSM-V, and proposes some different ideas

ICD-11 for Mortality and Morbidity Statistics

Book by the World Health Ogranisation - Dissociative disorders on 6B64

DSM DID ALTERATIONS

DSM-V-TR

DSM-V (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition)

Book by the American Psychiatric Association - Dissociative Disorders on page 336

DSM-IV-TR

DSM-IV

DSM-III-R

DSM-III

DSM-II-SPECIAL

DSM-II

DSM-I-SPECIAL

DSM-I

Plural History

Explanations and references to different parts of plural history

Plural History - 1811

Collection by Lb Lee - contains multiple parts of history in which systems of all types have existed (there are 4 different chapters)

A Partial History of Plural Self-Advocacy

Collection by Alt H - describes times in history starting from 1987 when non-traumagenic plural advocacy was recorded

It's Not Just a Tumblr Thing - Kerry Dawkins

Article by Ex Uno Plures - contains references in history to plurality outside of and before Tumblr

A Brief History of the Use of "System" in a Non-DID Space

Collection by Lb Lee - describes the history of the word “system” being used to describe those with multiple selves, and how it isn’t a disorder-specific term

A Quick'N'Dirty History of "System" as Plural Slang

Collection by Lb Lee - explains the history of the word “system” and the different uses

"Endogenic" was not coined by Freud

Collection by Sophie in Wonderland - a discussion on the anti-endos claim that “endogenic” was coined by Freud

Origin of the term Endogenic

Explanation by the Lunastus Collective - details how the term “endogenic” came to be created, what led up to it, and what happened after

I saw a post saying we should just believe RAMCOA surivors... okay... so how about this one?

Explanation by Sophie in Wonderland - describes how and why anti-endos think “system hopping” was stolen by endogenic systems from RAMCOA systems, including an explanation from the RAMCOA system that anti-endos reference

Community Explanations

Explanations on endogenic plurality by community members (sources are used)

Debunking the Anti-Endo Carrd - Guardians System

To be updated

What do Sysmeds say That is Transphobic/TERF Rhetoric?

Post by multiple people - a discussion on the comparison of sysmeds and transmeds, and how their arguments and the language they use is the same

Why Not Just Use Thoughtform?

Collection by Sophie in Wonderland and Olivia Set - describes why some parogenic systems prefer using Tulpa over Thoughtform 

Debunking Sysmeds - Claims and Rebuttals

Carrd by Ozymandias& - lists claims that anti-endos make against endogenic systems, and critiques the claims alongside referencing studies

I would define a plural system as having multiple, compartmentalised, self-conscious agents - SophieInWonderland

Collection by Sophie in Wonderland - an explanation of the validity of endogenic and non-traumagenic systems complete with referenced research and studies

Studies and Research into Endogenic and Non-Disordered Plurality

Masterpost - Academia on Endogenic and non-traumagenic plurality

Post by Inclusive Syscourse - contains an explanation on the validity of endogenic and non-traumagenic plurality complete with referenced research

Claims There is No Research On Endogenics

Post by Unknown - a list of research on endogenic and non-traumagenic plurality alongside explanations and descriptions

Origins of Plurality and Levels of Dissociation

Study by The Phoenixes - uses the DES to gain insight into plurality not caused by trauma

The Tulpa Carrd - explain the nature and origins of Tulpamancy and what surrounds it

Carrd by Unknown - lists an explanation and some history of Tulpamancy alongside references to research

Likely Origins of "Tulpamancy is Cultural Appropriation"

Post by the Dragonheart System - critiques a Carrd claiming that Tulpamancy is cultural appropriation, referencing research and studies

Resources

General helpful resources for all systems

Multiplicity Wiki - A wiki by plurals and multiples, for plurals and multiples

Wiki by multiple people - contains terms, definitions, and general information on all types of plurality and multiplicity

Layman's Guide to Multiplicity

Guide by Unknown - contains terms, definitions, information, explanations, and experiences on multiple types of plurality

The Plural Association - For Dissociative Identity Disorder & all other forms of Multiplicity under the Plural umbrella

Organisation by the Stronghold System (?) - contains help sites for all types of struggling systems, alongside helpful information and articles on multiple areas

Pluralpedia - the collaborative plurality dictionary

Dictionary by multiple people - contains a massive amount of information on the majority of plural terms and history

Endogenic Hub -  a site dedicated to endogenic plurality

Hub by the Hordes System - contains information and experiences on multiple types of non-traumagenic plurality, alongside explanations of what plurality is

More Than One - Plurality (or multiplicity) is the existence of multiple self-aware entities inside one physical brain

Site by Unknown - contains information on terms, different system origins, denounces myths about plurality, and different plural experiences

The Dissociative Initiative - For, by, and about people with multiplicity, dissociation, and amnesia

Run by Sarah K Reece - a support group for systems that contains different information and resources on plurality

Tulpa Info - "For Science"

Guide by Unknown - multiple different languages, explains what a Tulpa is, why they can exist, and where to begin when making a Tulpa

FAQ

If you’re a sysmed, you might end up here! Congrats if you do!

What is a system? A system is anyone who has more than one entity/identity in the body/brain. 

What is plural/multiple? They mean pretty much the same as "system", only "plural" was made exclusively to be inclusive of every experience that involves many in the same body. E.g. if someone is an anti-endo or sysmed and uses the hashing "plural" to find friends, they're going to attract inclusive folks who support endos.

What is DID? DID stands for Dissociative Identity Disorder. It is a disorder in which a system experiences severe dissociation that heavily impacts their life on a day-to-day basis.

What is OSDD? OSDD stands for otherwise Specified Dissociative Disorder and is used when they experience similar symptoms to DID but are missing one of the diagnostic criteria. E.g. OSDD-1A is used when there's a lack of distinct identities or no identities. OSDD-1B is used when there's a lack of memory gaps. (The separate OSDD categories don't properly exist as a diagnosis themselves - they are carried over from DDNOS.)

What is UDD? UDD stands for Unspecified Dissociative Disorder. It's often used as a placeholder diagnosis by professionals to say that although there is a dissociative disorder, they're not sure what it is.

What is a non-disordered system? A non-disordered system is a system without DID, OSDD, or UDD. They don't experience the disorders or do not fit the criteria. 

What is traumagenic, endogenic, mixed-origins, etc.? Traumagenic is a system that is formed from trauma. Endogenic is a system that is formed without trauma. Mixed-origins is a system that has multiple origins, E.g. some alters came from trauma and some did not.

What is a Tulpa? A Tulpa is a created identity that comes from repeatedly feeding information on one character or multiple characters into the brain. It can be purposeful or accidental.

DID/OSDD/UDD are trauma disorders? The diagnostic criteria for the disorders don't include trauma being necessary, nor does it anywhere else in the category. Trauma disorders and dissociative disorders are also categorised separately, and there are past studied cases of DID that weren't caused by trauma. The DSM-V-TR also includes a section that states trauma isn't necessary for a diagnosis.

You need trauma to be a system? The DSM-V specifies that a diagnosis of DID cannot be applied to cultural plurality. Culture-related plurality has existed and been documented for centuries, erased by colonisation and racism. Common cultural plurality includes Tibetan Buddhism, many Two-Spirit folk, medians, and mediums. These and more are all plural.

Dissociation is a trauma reaction? You’ll find nearly every if not every professional refers to some dissociation as “trauma-related dissociation” - take, for example, Kathy Steele, one of the writers of the Theory of Structural Dissociation, whose work consists almost only of “trauma-related dissociation”. That wouldn’t be necessary if dissociation only came from trauma. Dissociation is commonly shown to exist both inside and outside of other disorders. It’s especially common in BPD, ADHD, MADD, autism, and a few other disorders.

So only cultural and spiritual plurality can be non-traumagenic? They’re the most well-researched, but not the only non-traumagenic plurality. There are a few different theories as to how other plurality can form. Many experience their plurality caused by mostly unrelated disorders - autism, ADHD, BPD, Bipolar Disorder, MADD, etc. Others report accidentally creating alters, especially those who focus on characters, such as writers, artists, and authors. Yet more simply say they were born with their plurality, or grew up being plural without trauma being the cause. We believe plurality that hasn’t existed since birth could be caused by a “feedback loop” (here) in which one’s brain, after being fed repeated information, begins to predict the information, therefore creating actions to fill that prediction. This could be used to explain Tulpamancy (repeated info), artists/authors/writers (repeated info), ASD (masking and special interests), ADHD (masking and hyperfixations), BPD (splitting and more), MADD (repeated info), Bipolar (different states), and so on. 

Endogenic systems harm traumagenic systems? We and others have asked multiple times for sysmeds to tell us why they think endogenic systems hurt them, and every time we’ve either received silence or something that’s already been covered. Besides that, anti-endos hurt other traumagenic systems with their BS far more than endogenic systems might hurt them.

Anti-endos hurt traumagenic systems? Yup, and very frequently, considering sysmeds repeat the exact same information. Sysmeds say you have to be disordered to be a system - traumagenic systems exist without being disordered. Sysmeds say endogenic systems stole traumagenic terms - a mix of the communities coined the majority of system terms, and “endogenic” was coined by a traumagenic system. Sysmeds say what someone went through isn’t traumatising or horrific enough - traumagenic systems can be caused by any amount of trauma, no matter how “insignificant” it seems. Sysmeds repeatedly tell endogenic systems they need to have trauma - telling someone they have to have trauma when they either don’t or have amnesia around it can be incredibly damaging and has hurt many traumagenic systems. Sysmeds say they need to go to a psychologist or a therapist and be diagnosed - many traumagenic systems can’t be diagnosed. Many endogenic systems have trauma, just know they weren’t formed from it, and anti-endos repeatedly mock them about having trauma. There’s much, much more, but to end it, as a traumagenic system, we’ve personally been assaulted, harassed, threatened, told to kill ourself, and had our trauma completely invalidated and discarded by anti-endo traumagenic systems.

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Endogenic Research (Text Form) - NightFallSystem

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Hey everybody.

This is a list of the research and resources we've compiled over the last year or so that refers in some way to plurality, especially in the context of being endogenic and non-traumagenic supportive.

We often argue this subject on Twitter, alongside (hope you don't mind the tags) @cambriancrew and @sophieinwonderland . We've included a few of their posts in this, as they do share some wonderful information. Sophie deals in mainly Tulpamancy, we believe? And Cambrians does a wide range of things. They've both been incredibly helpful, so big credit and massive thank you to those two (and anyone else in this document) :)

Feel free to link this post or the document itself to anyone. Link it everywhere. Feel free to tag us too, as your friendly neighbourhood endo-friendly traumagenic DID system with PTSD and CPTSD. Our collective pronouns are phe/phex/phins, and we're collectively called Guardians or Guardians System.

Hope this helps some folks! If anything's wrong in this post, mention it in the notes (we think that's how Tumblr works?) and we'll adjust it in the Google Document. Alternatively, if you'd prefer to remain anonymous or would like to talk to us directly, you can check our LinkTree at the top of this page. We're always open to feedback and new research! We're especially interested in making our document more reader-friendly, as it can be a bit of an eyesore. but we're not the best at formatting documents.

If we do receive updates to edit some information, we'll be doing so on the document, so always double-check there in case there's been a change. If there are enough updates, we'll redo this post, but hopefully, that won't be necessary for a long time, because formatting all this in Tumblr is more than enough for us.

Thank you for reading!

-Rakan (not Marcus, fuck you Marcus)