#exclus discourse

[hunita812]

literally so glad i didn't fall all the way down the exclus pipeline. i'm living proof that young queers are so susceptible to exclus discourse. when i was ~14-16 i was vehemently against he/him lesbians, transmasc lesbians, bi lesbians etc. luckily as i got older (not that i'm MUCH older, but still older) i stopped caring about policing other people. and when i took a minute to step back and listen to people with "weird" or "contradictory" labels i wonder why i even was against them in the first place. human experience is messy. nothing is binary. i was saved from the exclus pipeline but others aren't so lucky. they try to recruit younger people and those who are new to the community because they know those people are more willing to fall for their discourse. and once those ideas have taken hold, it's not easy to pull yourself out. anyone who is new to the queer community/discourse i beg of you: just mind your business. if nothing else, even if you believe that someone is "wrong" in their identity, just don't say anything. how someone identifies, dresses, acts, is none of your business. other people's attractions, or lack thereof, is none of your business. even if you truly think that someone "can't be" whatever sexuality, don't worry about it. if you're not romantically/sexually involved with someone, it's not your business what label they use or what parts they have or whatever else. this is the bare minimum. just leave people alone. even if you can't bring yourself to supporting these people, just let them go about their lives. i hope you don't get pulled down farther than i did. i hope you can pull yourself out.

[gray-ace-space]

recently encountered a post where someone said "gender is fluid but sexuality isn't". (they were talking about bi lesbians.)

my first thought was: does that person, like. hear what they're saying? how can you explicitly hold two beliefs that are so logically inconsistent and not see it? how can you simultaneously think gender is this fluid and complex thing, but sexuality, much of which is defined around gender, is simple and stationary and its boundaries need policing?

but like, fuck, why even argue against it, right? there is no internal logic because there is no logical thought behind it. these are not genuine beliefs. this person is repeating what is currently acceptable in their (small) specific social circle. this is the same person who, a few years back, would be excluding nonbinary lesbians, but nonbinary lesbians are cool and normal on queer tumblr now, so they'll exclude bi lesbians instead, and not even pause to reflect on the difference.

oh, and if you read this and thought "these people don't even actually accept nb lesbians either", ding ding ding! because it's not a real, deep belief, that acceptance is extremely shallow and conditional. so as soon as someone is an nb lesbian in a way these people find odd (like being both a man and a lesbian) they will exclude them too and find a way to justify it.

why do we have to endlessly go through this cycle with queer identities. can we not? can we just not. i'm tired.

[the-alarm-system]

Queer exclusionist are so funny because you just know they never went to a queer group irl, hey guys don’t freak out but queer clubs in real life are full of Lesboys and non dysphoric trannies and bi lesbians and femboys and endogenic systems and xenogendered trans people

[thee-radio-host-is-a-kookaburra]

[posting-stuffies]

Original | Exclu comments

Exclus went full circle.

"I'm attracted to one gender" -> "I am bisexual". Lolgic!

[xoxo-ren-xoxo]

Top three funniest exclus posts I saw

"lesbian is an American term"

"mspec lesbians don't exist I will prove this with a mathematical function"

"mspec lesbians are like vegans who eat meat"

[d-parade]

i’ll say this every single time i get the chance to:

there should be a distinction between transsex(uals) and transgenders due to the fundamental existence of sex dysphoria that separates these two

“innate vs extrinsic” should not be classified together and treated the same

thank you

[mogaiminty]

its honestly really frustrating and kinda hurts when people say they support lesboys/turigirls but also say "cis men cant be lesboys" or "cis women cant be turigirls" as if genderqueer , cistrans, adgender, and overall gender diverse cis people dont exist

[l1ttles3am0th]

If I haven’t made it clear yet, I do not like exclusionists. Doesn’t matter what you’re excluding, doesn’t matter if it “doesn’t exist”, doesn’t matter if you think you’re in the right, I do not like your exclusionism and I encourage you to look deeper into yourself and ask why you think this way on a deeper level. Mspec lesbians, lesboys, gaybians, xenogender users, neopronoun users, whatever, I do not give a fuck as long as you aren’t a danger to kids, animals, or the deceased. There is an active attempt by fascists around the world to have us all killed going on RIGHT NOW, and you would rather care about if a certain group of people exists or not? Come the fuck on.

[sothisistheweightofcreation]

on a related note, whats the point of ace/mspec/mogai/polyam exclusionism, politically? like whats the end goal? how will it materially benefit the queer people you're supportive of?

ive seen exclusionists say they don't bring their beliefs up when organising irl, because it would distract from the actual political work they're doing. and at that point I'm like, well. it they're irrelevant or even counter-productive, why continue to hold these beliefs? what do they do for the people around you?

[foxfairy06]

[paranormeow7]

thinking about people being so mean to my friends abt their more unusual queer identities and its like? why do u feel the need to get so angry abt someone happy in their identity simply bc u don’t understand it? My 55 year old cishet dad had a coworker that used it/it’s pronouns and even though he didn’t get it, and even when that coworker gave him grief, he still tried to respect its identity and pronouns!!! a man who only uses the internet to order shit for work and read comic strips was more caring and tolerant than some of y’all young queers who call urselves “progressive!!” What happened to “live and let live” or “cringe culture is dead” and why is it a controversial opinion to say that you shouldn’t attack people for being comfortable in their own skin in a way you don’t understand? you will never get anything done by targeting your own community, and we can only stop our oppressors if we put aside our differences and band together. To anyone with an unconventional or controversial queer identity, I love you and and respect you!! Keep on keeping on 💝

Any deranged hate I get for this post will be ridiculed by me and my friends :]

[catgirl-catboy]

Pro and anti shipper discourse reminds me of one thing, the way exclusionist communities are always meaner. Proshippers are so nice in my experience, and antis are scary:((

Yeah, it feels like there's one group that thinks they are able to play god over other people's lives vs another group that can understand that weirdness doesn't always correlate to morality.

I'm both proship and an inclusionist because I'm reasonable enough to know that I'm NOT smart enough to know what is going on in stranger's heads.

[tatertots4c3po]

There’s no real easy way to put this. The internet tends to be a place where emotions reign supreme and logic is left behind, putting people like me in a difficult position. I do no more than question what I am presented with, and I am met with hostility and rage. 

I don’t like pride month. I don’t like pride month and I’ll tell you why. The entire purpose behind pride has become so obsessed with narcissistic self-identification that it has turned away completely from actual problems facing the community not just here but around the world. We seem obsessed with the idea that there is nowhere to draw the line, everything is acceptable and those who say it isn’t are bigoted and hateful. 

I have so many problems with this community it’s hard to know where to start. So many aspects of it have drastically impacted my life in ways that I don’t care to express, and I know that I’m not the only one. Almost all of us have seen the backlash against those who decide to detransition, and I think that’s forcing a lot of other people to stay in the dark. This community that claims to be so accepting treats those who disagree with it as less than human, silencing their voices when they so desperately need to be heard. 

Questioning authority either strengthens it or dismantles it by revealing how well the system actually works. To silence such opposition does nothing but raise more suspicions of what our true intentions are and reveal the movement as not that strong in the first place. For a group of people so quick to label people as fascists it’s incredibly ironic that people forget that suppression of opposing opinions is one of the key aspects of that movement. 

I’ve kept my silence for so long, and I’m tired of it. I’m not afraid anymore; I have nothing to lose. I have a right to my opinion and a right to express them, no matter the consequences. So I’m coming out here to say that I disagree with a lot of the lgbt community on a number of issues, many of which I’ll touch on in the future. I don’t care if you don’t accept me, I don’t care if you disagree and think I’m a hateful pile of garbage, just treat me like an actual human being and we’ll get along nicely.

[thee-radio-host-is-a-kookaburra]

anyways, if you’re a queer person currently being targeted by internet discoursers, know that it will pass. it always does. people just enjoy having someone to punch, and when you’re too beaten up to be fun to punch anymore, they’ll move on to a new target.

maybe they’ll pretend they were with you the whole time, or they’ll apologize and say that they were tricked into it. you don’t have to forgive them.

[riotingrogue-syscourse]

idk man maybe nobody wants to have a conversation with you because its impossible to have a conversation with you. maybe nobody is talking to you because you're miserable and you're not open minded and you reply every time with some sort of "gotcha!". maybe youre not getting sources because you already pissed off and pushed away the people who have them. and maybe, just maybe, it's a very chronically online mindset to assume that someone doesn't have proof or lost an argument because they stopped participating in it.