#characters fandom says are completely beyond redemption:

[getvalentined]

Friendly reminder that the only reason Genesis is the antagonist of Crisis Core is because Zack is with Shinra. Literally.

Once he's on the run, once Genesis knows that Zack can't help him, he literally brings Hollander to Gongaga for Zack to kill—he tells Zack what Hollander is planning under the guise of it being a joint effort, but once Hollander runs off, Genesis then tells Zack what he intends to do. He talks to him about Loveless and the Lifestream, he shoves a Banora White into his hands when Zack charges at him, and then he leaves. Hollander is left behind—in Zack's hometown, his own turf, so there's nowhere to run and nowhere to hide—allowing Zack to enact poetic justice at last by striking down Angeal's birth father with the very sword that the man who actually raised Angeal died to earn, the sword that honorless Gillian said represented all the honor the Hewleys had left.

And then, finally realizing what's actually going on, Zack sets out to to Banora to save Genesis from dying.

There's no point after Modeoheim that Genesis outright attacks Zack until he's cured at the Light of Doom; there, he calls Zack First Class SOLDIER even though he's not anymore, because Genesis isn't trying to strike down Zack, he's trying to reclaim the right to the only title he's ever had that felt worth anything, and he's trying to take the burden of that title from Zack.

If he wins, Genesis takes the guilt of killing both Angeal and Sephiroth—because he doesn't know Cloud's role, he doesn't know that Zack wasn't the one to strike Sephiroth down, he doesn't even know Cloud's name. Conversely, if he loses, then it's confirmation that Zack is the hero of the story, truly and completely, and that's all right too. If that's how the story ends, that's how it ends. (Minerva intervenes, pulls Genesis from the duel, and he never gets to see the ending. The final act, as in his beloved ancient poem, remains a mystery.)

Genesis is the main antagonist of Crisis Core, but he's never been the bad guy. The entirety of Final Fantasy VII has a single monolith of villainy, and that's always been—and will always be—Shinra. Shinra made the Reactors and dug up Jenova. Shinra made Genesis, Sephiroth, Angeal, and DeepGround. Shinra burned Kalm, Banora, and (partially) Nibelheim. Shinra used any corpse they found or made as research fodder. Shinra killed the last fullblooded Cetra and drove her only daughter to a place where the only way to save the people she loved was through her death. Shinra is the bad guy.

Zack is with Shinra for the majority of the game, and thus the story behaves accordingly. Shinra's enemies are Zack's enemies, because that's the side he's on. Shinra sees Avalanche as enemies, too, but no one ever refers to Barret or Elfe as "irredeemably evil" the way they do Genesis. Barret dresses up his quest for revenge in the guise of saving the planet, but all that matters to him is that anyone even remotely connected to the company suffers the way he's suffered. Elfe allowed Fuhito to experiment on people, to take the corpses of SOLDIER and make undead weapons out of them, violating the sanctity of their final rest and denying them entry to the Lifestream altogether.

"Genesis experimented on his men!" It was a desertion, not an abduction. People who become Copies when they aren't properly enhanced don't get the same enhanced abilities as a First and they degrade very quickly, we see that in Hollander and Lazard—meaning that every single Genesis Copy was one of those SOLDIER Seconds or Thirds that defected with Genesis of their own free will in Wutai after he grew a wing and the world turned upside-down. Genesis' men loved him and they went along willingly.

When Genesis locks himself up in the Light of Doom, his last hope for a cure, he has one last Copy in there with him. When Zack unlocks the gate, he's attacked by one last Copy, even though Genesis has been waiting for him, he's not antagonistic toward him anymore, he hasn't been for a long time.

Genesis took that last Copy, a man with a horrible disease who is definitely too far gone to save, and brought him along to the Light of Doom in the hopes that maybe, maybe things could be set right. When Zack unlocks the gate, that man throws himself at him to protect Genesis, because this is his last chance and Genesis' men love him.

When Zack fights Genesis' Weapon avatar and is attacked by incomplete and twisted ghosts of Genesis Copies, magical inhuman wisps that hold him back while Genesis heals—they're in the Lifestream then, the Light of Doom pulled them both in. Those Copies are literally the ghosts of Genesis' men, unable to diffuse into the Lifestream because of their Jenova infection, fighting to protect him from beyond the grave. Genesis' men love him. They want to save him. They went with him willingly.

"Genesis killed his parents!" The parents who lied to him his entire life in order to keep getting a paycheck from Shinra? The parents that funded his fanclub as a form of marketing for a company that literally wouldn't exist without Genesis' world-changing contribution to food processing as a teenager? Those parents?

Genesis has a little shrine in the Banora Underground where he keeps all his awards and achievements—a little desk with a lantern in an unfinished stone tunnel. They survived the bombing of Banora because they weren't in the house; the chalkboard has sketches of what would clearly become the Banora brand logo, which was presumably made about a decade prior to the Nibelheim Incident, not long after Genesis figured out how to make Banora White juice shelf stable, not long before he left for Midgar to enlist.

Having all the proof of every good thing Genesis has ever done shoved into a tunnel under his hometown, hidden from the public, while his family raked in huge amounts of wealth based on those achievements, indicates quite clearly that Genesis' parents were the exact opposite of good and loving.

But he buried them anyway, didn't he?

Genesis may not be a particularly good person, but he's never been evil, he's never been the bad guy. Genesis was right—more than that, he was justified. His methods were not. He did terrible things. He hurt and killed a lot of people.

But he was only ever the enemy because Shinra said he was. Genesis doesn't need a redemption arc because he already had one, and Minerva herself said he could serve the planet forever to prove it.

[xmelic]

sorry I died, This is your reward :[

shocking that this isn't actually undertale specifically related but, this is what I did beyond the few past weeks of being absent!!

thought that I do apologize for the disappearance of tumblr.../gen

due to this, it's because of school and I don't have time to really do much on here- I decided to post some artwork of my gratitude of staying here with my lil' minions still here by my side. here is the drawing that I have provided for u all <3

this image was inspired by @ksopaz because they did a version and I wanted to do with with my favorite shrimp trio instead :3

( sorry for the ping btw, Sopa :'] )

also, the original image + questions that you should read in case you wanna see it. (BELOW) VVV

(credits to the person who made this as well, love you for it giggles/p/pos)

questions you may or may not ask me but, will answer anyways !

what is this shrimp trio about? + that you may ask? yes! these three are the shrimp trio, they are based off with both regretevator and dandy's world! did you make them? + yes and no, I did make both the second in the middle and the third one to the right but not the first one because he belongs to the game dandy's world :3 what are their names? + from order to left and right, the first one is name shrimpo, second is Steinex, lastly the third one is also shrimpo too! why do two of them look similar? + the reason why two of them look similar with their looks it's because both shrimpo in this are from two different areas! Shrimpo is canonically the one of the left to be known as the original Shrimpo as for the last one... his AU is called "Dandy's Redempt AU"! this au contains different styled versions of the canon one and how they were redempt forming back to themselves after dandy's lost control making every toon twisted as for the main character who is known to be Astro, Shelly, and Vee to help the others and regaining themselves back to normal toons rather than being a twisted for a long period of time until they are completely safe. are you going to continue with the undertale fandom? + yes I will but, it would be a rare chance to see me draw something undertale related because I have been reaching out into different fandoms such as dandy's world, regretevator, pressure, friday night funkin', etc. Sorry if that's what you really found me to be an undertale artist and see undertale art but- that's how it's usually going to end. I will still draw skeletons and stuff but, I would need to try something new and for that fact I rarely do much about things on my own free hand anyways LOL. ew, why draw dandy's world tho? + as people heard with dandy's world going INSANE with what some of the creators did, I don't care what you put opinions on. I know they did bad things and I know that if I draw the characters I'd support their doings... NO, that's wrong. just because I draw them or play the game doesn't mean you need to throw opinions off at me saying that it's bad and you need to stop supporting them by doing that simple thing. It's not supporting them unless you give them money or pay their stuff like UCG's or even the things you can buy from there. I do state my opinion very clear and rather not start a argument over an opinion to be sent out online to get it lashed out from. it's stupid./gen/srs/lh

I really wish that people would not argue about a game that is from roblox, please calm down. /gen

[nukedimplosion]

Why I believe Spade King will be redeemed

The Spade King is a... controversial character to say the least. From what I've seen, opinions of him range from a complete monster to an abusive douche with little leeway.

So, making a post about how this villain will be redeemed in future chapters may seem like a slap in the face. Let it be known that none of this is to upset real survivors of abuse, but instead it is to highlight the many indicators I feel show that Spade King is not beyond redemption.

I personally have had this theory since around when chapter 2 came out, and time has only solidified it, but this is the first time I actually got the confidence to post it.

That being said, let's get into the evidence.

THE FOUNTAIN

In the 6th anniversary stream for Undertale, Fangamer played through an edited version of Deltarune with Toby Fox making comments about development, the characters etc.

When facing the Spade King, Fangamer talked about how they hoped Spade King had been a good dad 'before the other mouth grew in'.

Toby Fox then says this;

'I mean, I think that fountain definitely changed his behaviour. For sure.'

This quote is stated around the 3 hour mark of the livestream video below.

So what does this mean? You may want to argue that Toby was not be literal when he made this statement, and that the fountain was a simple temptation instead of something that directly effected his behaviour. But then there's the queen...

The queen seems to have also experienced this fountain brought phenomena despite only wanting to use it to serve the Lightners instead of oppose.

She threatens and attempts to kill the Lightners. She establishes a regime significantly more strict then the last. She won't stop going on about the Knight. These are all things the King does as well.

It seems that the fountain abstracts the behaviour of their respective rulers for the sake of the Knight.

Okay, so the fountain impacts the King's behaviour, great. Doesn't change the fact that he threatened his son, and refuses to apologise or acknowledge his wrong doing now the fountain is closed.

Well, that leads me onto the next part...

HIS SON

Let's immediately establish one thing; the Chaos King does care for his son. While how genuine that care is is debated by the fandom, I would like to make the case that he was a good dad and does want Lancer to be happy.

First of all is the quote about the fountain that Toby made in the anniversary stream, which was a reply to a comment about how Fangamer hoped that he was a good dad.

Replying then seems to indicate that the fountain did impact his ability to be a good father.

More importantly is his dialogue in jail.

Here, he asked directly if his son is happy, in hesitant, even reserved manner. This is in direct contrast to how he mocks the Lightners with his boisterous grin or cruel frown.

Remember when he was yelling that he'll 'KILL ALL OF YOU' while his subjects dragged him away? An insurrection led by his son, who he called a traitor? Despite this, he seems to hold no ill will towards his son or his fellow darkners (we'll get to that). This behaviour I believe was caused by the fountain, thus the attitude change.

And yes, I do acknowledge that he has lied for sympathy before (his act before Ralsei healed him in chapter 1), but this is different. There is no reason to lie at this point; there's no way they would believe him.

He also admits that if he HAD let his son go, Lancer would have just... bounced. He then calls his son a bouncy little pumpkin. This line is notably similar to a line right after Susie casts pacify on him, calling her a 'sweet little pumpkin', again hinting that he was a good dad before the fountain and his love towards Lancer isn't a lie.

'But' you may argue, 'Lancer was afraid! He knew his son was scared of him but kept threatening anyways!'

Which is a valid point, and is obviously horrible.

BUT combined with the fountain being an impact for his decisions, I think it is also a valid idea that there's more to it than 'The Spade King is abusive'.

Both the Queen and King are callous when it comes to the opinion and wellbeing of others. Queen spends the entirety of Chapter 2 attempting to force Noelle to do as she says, even threatening to kill her classmates (and crush) for the sake of her goal.

What King does is similar, making Lancer watch as his friends get killed because he didn't do as he said. It's cruel, yes, but this is another case where you can argue the fountain may have led to this mutual behaviour.

(You may argue that the Queen has the excuse of being a computer who isn't completely in tune with peoples emotions. This argument doesn't really make sense because she actively uses Noelle's emotions against her in a way that shows she understands how upset it makes her.)

I do believe that Spade King knew his son was upset and still went along with it. This post isn't some elongated argument for Spade King's sainthood.

But I do have to say, him being aware and still going along with it may explain why he's hesitant to talk about Lancer in his jail cell. He knows he messed up and is feeling guilty post-fountain, he's just too prideful to up and say it to the face of the enemy. What he did is not a show of Spade King's abusive inhernet nature but an example of the fountain clouding his full judgement at that moment.

Also, you may argue that Spade King was neglectful of his son, leaving him to Rouxls Kaard to be cared for. I do believe that there has been a bit of exaggeration on this point. Yes, he does put his son in the care of his employees perhaps more than he should, but he's also straight up a King. He's a busy guy.

'Oh, but he doesn't feed him, the poor boy is starving!'

Honestly, my big question is why he's cooking in the first place. He's a King, he has subjects literally fanning his son and he can't afford one chef? It seems like this is more a downtime thing he does with his son for the sake of family bonding (may explain where the food based nickname of 'sweet little pumpkin' came from) and he knows his son will be fed by his employees when he's busy.

Again, too dependent, but I don't see any signs of such an intense neglect to call him a bad dad.

Of course, this is more in the assumption category. It is possible the neglect is more active and that the King is just a douche, but I feel that we are being purposely mislead here.

Now, onto the final point.

HIS SUBJECTS

Let's talk about why Spade King did what he did.

Spade King hates Lightners, that much is obvious. He calls them scum, says that 'their existence goes against our own' and feels absolutely no guilt towards trying to kill them post-fountain.

Which isn't really not justified. Darkners were made to keep Lightners happy, only to be abandoned by them. The Chaos King has to watch as the kingdom, HIS kingdom, rotted without meaning. He had to raise his son with the understanding that he would never be 'truely happy' because the so called only source of happiness for Darkners left them to the wayside.

So, when the Knight came, is it really that surprising he would try to create a 'new purpose' as he said? Yes, perhaps world domination is a bit insane (maybe he's dramatic like that, maybe it was the fountain, he does hate Lightners so it's likely both) but the core of his ideals, that darkners can be something beyond what they are to Lightners is not only justified but correct.

In the scene where the gang are walking to the castle in Chapter 1, Lancer acknowledges how happy he is to be here, feeling like he's doing 'something important'. Ralsei replies that this is because he is serving the Lightners and that is the purpose of the Darkners.

Susie is notably uncomfortable, and dismisses Ralsei's point as 'weird purpose' talk and simply says that Lancer is just happy because he ate a weird berry. This is the first sign that the plot beat of Darkners only gaining happiness from Lightners is not just going to be an accepted status quo by the main cast and that there is likely to be more contention about the subject in the future.

(I would also like to mention that Ralsei in this scene asks if the Spade King is happy, in which Lancer very hesitantly says he's not sure.)

Then, in chapter 2, Ralsei is shown to be confused about friendship. He starts to understand that friendship is more than just being nice all the time and that he should be more 'Ralsei-like', meaning more like himself.

The problem is that he doesn't know what that is. He's spent all this time forming himself into the perfect companion but he doesn't know how to be himself. This is a result of his purpose, his wish to be the perfect Darkner for his friends. Now, his purpose seems more cloudy. Should he continue being the perfect little angel for his friends or should he become someone who is more genuine on their own terms, like what his friends seem to want?

While Ralsei is still doing everything he can for the Lighteners, he is slowly becoming his own individual, which is what the King wanted for all Darkners.

Then there's the general themes of control. Be it Kris, the secret bosses or the Spade King, all of these people wish to be more than the binds that control them. While the Spade King is acting on behalf of the Knight, he does so to free his people from the influence of the Lightners, to make purpose on their own terms and be their own people.

Just like how Kris wishes to be free from, you, the player, also making their own purpose and be their own person. May I remind you that the Darkners are media and toys, fun things meant to be enjoyed. They are in universe equivalents of video game characters, made to entertain Lightners, just like Kris, Ralsei and Susie are made to entertain us. The only difference is that the latter is closer to the forth wall.

So yes, while his world domination thing was wack, I believe the Spade King is righteous in his core values.

So why doesn't any other character seem to agree?

Ralsei completely believes that Darkners can only gain happiness from Lightners, Queen does everything she does for the sake of Lightners, hell, the town that the Darkners live in isn't named after the Prince or anything but you, a Lightner. They even call you boss!

At this point, the only character who cares for Darkners having a purpose outside of Lightners is locked in a jail cell.

Now, it is possible that Toby Fox introduces another character who has Spade King's beliefs but is less nasty about it, but that's lame. It's also possible that Ralsei has an epiphany and realise that Darkners deserve better and that becomes the result of his arc. Better, and I can see him going in that direction, but I still think it's less satisfactory.

In any route in which you don't get all recruits, the King is the only person who acknowledges this and is actively upset about it. Even the Queen is hesitant yet still ultimately okay with leaving her subjects behind because the Lightners are onboard.

The goofy cutscene where he asks for cashews? Gone. He simply remarks on how you left them behind like Lightners left the Card Kingdom darkners behind and tells you to 'Begone'. The first line is said with a smile, knowing that he's been proven right but after that, the smile leaves and he's just... cold. He seems genuinely upset about what happened to the Darkners you left behind, portrayed with a '...' in his second line and the loss of his smile. He is not trying to trick you, you simply disgust him at this point. He cares for Darkners in a way that no character has shown yet (aside from Nubert (the goat))

This is why the title of this post is why Spade King is GOING to be redeemed and not me saying he SHOULD be. The difference in levity between an interaction with the Spade King post full recruits and not full recruits indicates that by getting recruits, the King is more willing to acknowledge you and, perhaps with time, your points and intentions. If Spade King was supposed to be this abusive bastard, having characters such as the Queen be on positive terms with him seems strange. You can argue nuance all you want, but the Queen, a character who we're supposed to like, being friends with a character we're supposed to end up hating seems like a strange writing decision no matter how you slice it. Especially if he's a straight up child abuser.

(yes I know she might not know but are you really expecting an epic drama where Queen finds out he's an abusive scumbag and calls him out? Having a morally positive character be friends with an abuser can work but in this situation, it is objectively a weird choice and I will argue on that)

He asks for cashews in this chapter and suckles out a giant hamster water container. Maybe the second serves to make him look pathetic, but then the Queen apparently has the same thing but bigger. The cashew bit is played off as endearing more then anything.

This is all because you got those recruits. Without them, he doesn't even talk to you. Therefore, it can be concluded that Spade King does have a chance. After all, if all of him was completely against you and believed you would be bound to abandon them, he would not be talking to you in any route. It's only when you prove it directly that he stops.

Toby Fox uses the recruit dialogue to endear you to him, which I presume is to set up a redemption if you continue to go down the recruit everyone path. By proving him wrong in future chapters, I presume he will talk more about himself and his ideals and perhaps listen to the Fun Gang and his son in turn.

CONCLUSION

My prediction is that over the course of the chapters, players will see more and more endearing aspects of the Chaos King, with things such as his theoretical neglect and love for Lancer being properly clarified and elaborated on, but only if you keep all recruits. He will still be sceptical, perhaps even leading to him going against you when the Knight returns, but he will ultimately fight by your side if you have successfully convinced him through your treatment of the Darkners that Lightners aren't bad after all.

Hopefully by the ending point, Ralsei would have had enough of an extential crisis to hear the Spade King out on his whole 'Darkners deserve to be happy without the Lightners' deal. Susie would absolutely be on board with her friends finding happiness without needing Lightners (I can see her arguing with Ralsei about it in a future chapter).

I can see him sacrificing himself, but I don't want Lancer to deal with that.

The final point I would like to mention is his place in the narrative. A lot of people have argued that all he is meant to be in an objective evil to prove that Ralsei was wrong about fighting never being the answer and that a redemption would ruin that, and yes, that is his role is chapter 1.

But if that was his only purpose, bringing him back as the only person to actively acknowledge the consequences of your lack of recruits seems pointless. Giving him moments of endearment and clarifying he loves his son is unnecessary. You, again, can argue it's for the sake of nuance but I think at this point I have clarified that there is a lot more to it than that.

Besides, what would be more satisfying to see than the most stubborn character of your journey, the only one you could not convince in the chapter he appeared in, joining your side as a result of you sparing every darkner you can?

In a game with only one ending, making routes like full mercy seem worth it is kind of important if you want players to bother caring about those mechanics. The few dialogue changes we do get really don't cut it.

But witnessing the development of a character who you started off hating but then becomes your ally due to your decisions and comes to help you in your darkest hour?

That would be worth it.

---

Thanks for reading this theory! It's been a while since I've written a theory like that. Do say your opinions, I know this is a desisive topic but I am still happy to hear people's perspectives!

[m3nt4llyr4v3d]

Felix v Chloe

Lemme just say, I hate the way Felix is treated in the show and the fandom compared to Chloe

Somehow, someway, the characters can forgive Felix and even have him on the team at the end (?????), and all of his actions are completely absolved due to his backstory: “Oh he was just doing all that for his survival! He was just an awkward quirky guy with no social cues all along!”

But Chloe’s backstory even being brought up for an explanation is immediately shut down, it doesn’t excuse a single thing she’s done! Hell, it doesn’t even explain why she’s the way she is because Mylene has an absent mother and she turned out fine! Doesn’t matter that Mylene had a father that actually taught her how to act and didn’t just buy her love with constant gifts and abuses of power, there’s just no excuse!

Both act in their own self interest, turning to the villain to get something they want, but nonono, Felix, without apologizing once mind you, is redeemed and forgiven while Chloe gets sent off to NY with her mother! Everyone wins!

Not to mention Felix did arguably worse than Chloe

Felix was the one who actively made Hawkmoth more powerful by giving him the miraculous (not to mention giving HM the ring) while with Chloe, Hawkmoth got the miraculous on his own and she was just along for the ride basically. Then Felix came back and snapped away everyone. Chloe sent everyone away when she was akumatized as well, but at least we could see where they went and there wasn’t any confusion as to whether they got snapped to some pocket dimension or straight up disappeared. Oh, and she was akumatized by Gabriel who was literally manipulating her along with Tomoe and Lila at the time??

I feel like any arguments for Felix about worrying for his or Adrien’s safety, any excuses, should’ve been thrown out the window in the season 4 finale. After that point he had full control over himself and gave up Adrien’s free will, and he still came back to snap everyone away! Now, I would absolutely be fine with this (cept the Adrien part) I mean trauma with humans isn’t going to go away just like that even when there’s no immediate risk anymore (unless you get a girlfriend apparently). My issue with that is how this same sentiment isn’t given to Chloe whatsoever, her lash outs aren’t given any thought beyond “oh she’s evil for the sake of it”, ignoring how the trauma of her mother leaving her and treating her like garbage would still affect her, and it drives me up the wall

Not to mention the show actively tries to pretend that the adults surrounding Chloe’s life don’t have any influence on her whatsoever, even though they obviously do and Tomoe and Gabriel literally set her up as a scapegoat in this season. Somehow her father isn’t responsible whatsoever for the way she was raised, her mother leaving apparently didn’t even affect her behavior because we’re genuinely supposed to believe this teenager is just an evil person. Somehow the storyline of her being set up as a scapegoat by two grown ass adults is literally ignored by the narrative including some of the fans

Oh but Felix gets all the sympathy regardless of what he did

Right.

I wouldn’t hate Felix or his character direction so much if it wasn’t a direct slap to the face for Chloe, not to mention giving the Chloe stans fuel! I mean, it literally proved their point that Chloe deserved a redemption because full grown adults who’ve done worse and a guy who’s done nearly the same shit as her are forgiven and “redeemed”, ridiculous (I say that a lot huh)

[mementoshay]

I read in a document saying that you are longer going to be involved with anything to do with Hazbin ever again, is that correct? If so, why?

Hello there, I will answer with my own experience.

Keep in mind, however, that the fact that a friend died in the name of this show is already reason enough for me to not want to hear about it again, if only to preserve my own sanity.

For now, the only one who still somewhat engages with the fandom is Eden. I think the reason is that she made many friends along the way in the years she took an active part in the fandom (all the way from before the pilot I think, so many years), and can't quite cut the cord yet.

I, on the other hand, came along after the pilot and belonged to the HuskerDust "side" because of the Instagrams. I'm gonna admit I loved their banter and seeing Angel flirt with him with Husk acting like he didn't care, when he actually did. I found it cute. And also the way Angel blushed in the pilot when Husk was introduced.

I did know about the Hunicasts and about the interactions between Ed Bosco and Michael Kovach (Alastor and Angel's old VAs) on stream, and I found them amusing although not as endearing as the Instagram interactions between Angel and Husk.

I was fully aware though that these streams were the ground upon which the pilot (and fandom) was built, and the "RadioDust" ship carried the whole thing for years before anything was even produced. If you even typed "Hazbin Hotel" or "Alastor" or "Angel Dust", they were the thing that would come up on Google first.

What I liked about it all, however, was the passion and "camaraderie" this whole thing came with. There was passion from the VAs, there was passion from the writers, there was passion from the fans themselves. The fan created so much content it's insane. Every single fan awaited the arrival of the show for so long it was absolutely wonderful to see every character move when the show was announced.

We all believed in this project, it was amazing.

Yet, fast forward to the winter of 2023, my "side" of the fandom became increasingly aggressive. They wrote callout posts, leading to ship and content wars. They expected and almost demanded that the ship would be canon, because of an endless list of clues they collected over the years. And when the ship was confirmed to be 'endgame' the self-entitlement went from 0 to 100 in the blink of an eye. It was beyond insane.

Seeing the way my "side" could as much as maul people on other "sides" (may it be RadioDust, ValDust, RadioHusk, NifftyHusk, you name it, as long as there's either Angel or Husk in the equation) already made me grimace a little. When all that happened, I was taken aback.

Then, Shay died. And with all the names involved in the fact (which I won't name) that I really looked up to and followed for years, I felt sick to my stomach. I unfollowed them all and took a break from everything.

All I was hoping for was a show about redemption, with fun shenanigans between a bunch of misfits... instead we got drama after drama, ship war fuel directly from up above, and a dead fan.

I still watched the show when it came out, but I felt utterly disappointed by it. Extremely poor pacing, terrible writing with bits and pieces completely useless to the plot, characters that no longer feel like what they were advertised as (e.g Husk, Alastor or Cherri Bomb) and an overall waste of precious minutes for such a short runtime. I felt a bit betrayed as well, given the amount of time we all waited since we saw these characters on screen.

But worst of it all, the passion that fueled the original plan was completely gone, as well as the camaraderie we lived with for so long. And a friend, who dedicated time, money and passion is now dead for this.

There is to say that every community is made out of people that should be taken individually. I can name plenty that would never ever wish what has occurred to Shay and that still belong to what was my "side" of the fandom. But I can also name plenty that to this day still shout death threats over different ships and opinions.

Things change, of course. For me, they didn't change for the better. And neither did for Shay.

So you'll understand if I don't wish to be involved not hear about Hazbin Hotel (or HuskerDust for that matter) again.

Thanks for your question!

- Liv

[ecoterrorist-katara]

Do you think that the gaang atla movie might make casual fans realize bryke are not the best writers? Like Everywhere they get praised but honestly if the writing in the movie is at the levels of the comics I could maybe see ppl turn on them a bit ( it also sucks bc I doubt katara and zuko will even interact in the movie)

Hi anon! I think people will almost certainly be disappointed in the new Avatar Studios movie, because nothing has even come close to the quality of ATLA after the original show ended. However, from what I’ve observed in the fandom, there’s always someone other than Bryke to blame. For example, when people rag on Korra, they blame Nickelodeon. When they rag on the comics, they blame Gene Yang (and incidentally I’ve actually seen a K/ataang shipper say that the reason the comics are so bad is because Gene Yang is a Zutara shipper — as if a grown ass professional would compromise his contract / reputation for a ship war). And when they rag on the first live action movie, they rag on M. Night. I’m not saying that Bryke are completely at fault for the shortcomings for these projects — collaborative creative pursuits are wonderful, magical things and it’s hard to know where credit and blame go when the whole point is that collaboration is beyond the sum of its parts — but the bottom line is that when certain fans are hellbent on not blaming Bryke, there are always other scapegoats.

I’m friends with many casual fans, and they were the ones who got me into the show. Honestly, I don’t think they even gave a second thought to Bryke until they left the Netflix production, which is convenient because now people can credit Bryke for the ingenuity of ATLA and blame Netflix for driving them away. I’m not sure casual fans will turn on Bryke for making a mediocre movie…BUT: if Zuko undergoes a character regression similar to his comics arc, people will probably get mad. Zuko’s redemption arc is widely considered one of the best on TV. You cannot find a Reddit thread about “best redemption arcs of all time” without Zuko being one of the top answers. From Bryke’s interviews, it kind of feels like they don’t really understand his appeal, and if they butcher his character in the absence of writers who got him more…well, I think people will be real mad about that. I mean, people got so mad about NATLA Katara, and she’s nowhere near as beloved as Zuko b/c misogyny and racism and many people found her annoying but that’s a whole other thing

And on a related note, I agree that Katara and Zuko will probably barely interact in the new movie, and it will seem kind of stilted and awkward. I remember an interview with Aaron Ehasz where he said that he’s not really a shipper and he doesn’t write stories with shipping in mind: what matters more is letting the narrative drive itself. That POV, undoubtedly shared by others in the writers’ room (including MVP Elizabeth Welch), is what was responsible for the development of the Katara - Zuko friendship in the original show in the first place. It’s very, very stifling to prioritize a ship war over the actual story. Antis claim Zutara shippers create convoluted fanfic plots where other characters and relationships are downplayed in favour of their ship, but that’s exactly what happens in the canon comics wrt K/ataang. I don’t know if it’ll seem so transparent to the casual viewer, but even if the motivations aren’t obvious, the decline in quality sure will be. For the sake of my love for all Gaang-related shenanigans I hope Bryke won’t go down that road for the new movie, but…well, they’ve done pettier things.

Thanks for your question anon, and please share any of your further thoughts!

[crypticpatterns]

I'm seeing Moash discourse and because I hate peace I'm going to chime in with my own two cents since I think everyone is wrong.

On one side you've got the Moash defenders who want to genuinely advocate for him or say he's misunderstood or shouldn't be held accountable for his actions because he's under the control of Odium or was a slave or a victim or whathaveyou, which I think is pretty short sighted and ignorant because regardless Moash still made the choices he did of his own volition and he did decide to be put under Odium's emotional control in the first place. I do think Moash is a sympathetic and complex figure because of his background and the way he's been made a victim, but it's wrong to erase his culpability or try to say he's right when he just absolutely is not.

On the other side you've got Moash haters who are also just wrong. Because even if Moash is a bad person, he's not actually a person, but a character written by a human being with political and moral views. And regardless of your opinion on Moash as a moral figure, its inarguable that he is written as a lower class person who is driven by hate and revenge to become a monster and he's villainized beyond the point of other characters who are more privileged than him but committed just as if not even more horrific actions. Moash is "problematic" if you will, because he's a caricature that paints all forms of revolutions of violent rebellion as especially evil and dangerous. He is an example of the kind of media that portrays the leftist revolutionaries who have a point as the villains because they kill people. His writing results from those same neoliberal politics.

And on the topic of redemption, I don't think Brandon is against Moash being redeemed or thinks he's "worse" than other characters like a lot of people have tried to claim based on those WOB about him not being interested and having farther to go than Dalinar. Brandon is simply saying that redemption is a choice and right now Moash isn't interested in that choice, so that journey is going to be a lot more difficult for him as things stand now.

I do think there are problems with the way Moash is written but I think people are identifying those problems and then trying to defend Moash in the wrong ways. Whether he was justified in his actions is completely irrelevant to the issue of how he was written to commit those actions in the first place. And that's where the problem actually lies. Moash's writing is problematic because it paints the victims of oppressive systems as "just as bad" as the oppressors and villainizes genuine revolution because it's "too dangerous."

As for my personal feelings toward Moash the character, I don't hate him like a lot of people seem to. I sympathize with him too strongly to hate him. I honestly mostly feel bad for him and find his particular character conflict incredibly compelling, especially in ROW after he's made the decision to imprison himself and is attempting to imprison Kaladin. I do find the hatred towards Moash from the fandom a bit concerning, especially when Stormlight is full of characters who have committed similar atrocities who are much more liked. People don't have the sympathy towards his circumstances that I think they should.

[irrealisms]

my dsmp fic recs masterpost

this one's long so i'm putting it under a cut! includes a lot of fandom favorites/ones you probably already know, but i tried to include some more niche ones as well. check the reblogs for more, i couldn't fit them all in one post without tumblr getting mad at me

Author recommendations (not my friends; go read everything they wrote):

Goldenrayofsunshine

shrugofgod

odaigahara

penink

hoorayy

Zannolin

the_g_m

chrysalizzm

Author recommendations (me and people I know):

sesquidpedalian @erstwhilesparrow

WheelCoveredInEyes @blocksgame

short_tandem_repeats

consumptive_sphinx @regicidal-optimism

monsterloot @aliveburs

cryptofhoney (korethekiller) @honeyblockm

nocturne_csharpm @qwilbur

75hearts (ME! YOU ARE HERE!)

Fangame recommendations:

Good Luck, Minutes Man! by @andhyssops : visual novel about NLM-era c!ranboo. has multiple endings, great art, soundtrack, characterization, etc.

Good Morning, Gogy by @andhyssops : visual novel about c!george. again, gorgeous art, great characterization. i almost don't want to say too much about this one because so much of it is a spoiler!

Doomsday Sim by @bwobgames : doomsday platformer, tommy is the player character, buggy but pretty.

Virtual Ghostbur by @bwobgames : ghostbur tamagotchi!

Character Pattern by @bwobgames : bullet hell with various mcyts (c and cc), tommy is the player character, stupid hard but very pretty

Tommygotchi by @bwobgames : tommy tamagotchi!

Silver Dollar by @honeyblockm : president schlatt is dead. murder mystery twine game

Fic recs (people I don't know well):

devil town by hoorayy : haven’t read this one but i’ve had it recommended too many times to not include. small town horror au. 100k

aftermath by sparxwrites : dream is recovering from the prison. tommy visits him. they have a conversation. neither torture apologist nor abuse apologist! 2k

what i love and what i've lost by Treis : dream & sapnap, dream recovery/redemption/post-prison. 20k

in memoriam by hoorayy : wilbur and sapnap have a conversation. 2k

little women by chrysalizzm : women on the dsmp character study. 1k

dissonance by shrugofgod : tubbo character study!!!!! one of the best tubbo fics imo. snowchester-era. 16k

six foot deep bottom line by shrugofgod : tubbo & q conversation, cookie outpost era. 2k

How to Sex Vol. 4-58 by Goldenrayofsunshine : epistolary fic, tommy pov, canon divergent from the disc finale (punz doesn’t arrive). probably my favorite fic in the fandom. 1k

Chicken Strategy by Goldenrayofsunshine : sam-centric, lots of q also, au where q set off the prison TNT. 20k

The Roman Archives by Goldenrayofsunshine : “Tubbo dies during the disc war finale and uses his time in purgatory to unlock all the secrets of the universe.” 4.5k

Make It Right by Goldenrayofsunshine : Captain Sparklez is tubbo’s dad, crashes the disc finale. my #1 clingyduo fluffy h/c Comfort Food. 2k

Raccooniverse (zombie crossover) series by Goldenrayofsunshine : crossover with the walking dead; doesn’t require any knowledge of the walking dead. tommy-centric, follows canon very approximately for the first two seasons and a bit beyond. 162k and still going, although you can just read the completed parts.

Neon Sunrise by Goldenrayofsunshine : wilbur & quackity, LN-era. 14k

draw up your sword (leave your days ashore) by Odaigahara : puffy joins the server by coming ashore at logstedshire, defends tommy. another comfort food fluffy h/c. 11k

snapshots by sparxwrites : schlatt/q relationship study. very good but mind the content warnings. 6k

the dead don’t dream by penink : what if dream killed tommy and then revived him again and then killed him and then revived him again— (crimeboys whump w a happy ending) 226k

Mafia AU by penink : mafia AU; based on Vibes rather than a specific time period but has Lots Content and Good Characterization. 219k and still going, although you can just read the completed parts.

Fairweather and Foxhole Friends by penink : manburg q & tubbo. 2k

Jubilee Line Satisfaction Survey by penink : wilbur centric, some crimeboys. wilbur in the afterlife! very very good. does fun things with the format--it's a uquiz, not an ao3 fic. another competitor for my favorite fanwork from this fandom.

call this world home by Sixteenthdays, stygiomedusa (grainjew) : another dream post-prison recovery/redemption; in this one, he’s metaphysically trapped in the arctic commune. 43k

l’esprit de l’escalier by eldritchIdeologist : revivebur oneshot. 3k

cause most of us are bitter over someone by honeyblock : niki & wilbur confrontation and reconciliation. (tommy’s there too.) 19k

orphan’s path (series) by aenor_llelo, Alderous, Anarchy-Schmanarchy (Murder_Schmurder), BattleBlaze, ConcoctionsFromHell, Falrisesi, fluxphage, izziel_galaxy, Otakuforlife19, Rocket999 : starts out as a phil&techno backstory. becomes a retelling of the entire server. massively multi-pov, very good characterization, very long. has many Takes i disagree with but also a lot of good stuff. get a text replacer “Lagos” -> “Dream”. 700K and still going, although you can just read the completed parts.

tune by small_lizard : karlnapity relationships study. 4k

applaud, my friends, the comedy is over! by small_lizard : oneshot focused on niki’s birthday party. <1k

it only gets much worse by hoorayy : another q & wilbur, LN-era. 2k

good reasons to freeze to death by hoorayy : tubbo-centric, post-s3 finale (mourning ranboo). 3k

pay it forward by comradeboyhalo : the l’sandburg fic. foolish centric; badlands post-egg healing arc in which they all move onto his house. very canon-typical tone; silly and crack-y but with genuine feeling. 5k

treatise on sin and vice by the_g_m : quackity and tommy and their relationship w religion (scriptfic). 7k

plate of primes by chrysalizzm : poem about tommy. <1k

hunger by Anonymous : probably the only E-rated fic i’m including. wilbur/quackity, LN-era, wilbur provokes quackity into hurting him by pretending to be dream, it’s . fic of all time. 11k

i'm not calling you a liar by Anonymous : jk i lied. also E-rated, wilbur/quackity, LN-era. by the same author as the previous rec, similarly dead dove. lives in my brain forever. 13k

the ckarl mpreg fic by the_g_m : karl doesn’t actually get pregnant in this one. they just want him to. karlnapity, script format, crack treated seriously. 2k

sink secluded by angeloncewas : niki and wilbur, pogtopia. <1k

best laid plans by zannolin : some gentle h/c for revivebur with ranboo and tommy. a bit of a comfort food but in a good way, at least for me. 5k

said the rabbit to the badger by zannolin : crimeboys talk about exile. inconsolable differences fixit. 3k

i can’t stand your taste in my mouth by orphan_account : a really intense but also very good pogtopia-era wilbur character/relationship study. 5k

where to find a silver lining (as the mercury keeps rising) by angelsdemonsducks : cwilbur eggpocalypse fic! 10k

the sea is rising by chrysalizzm : desolation avatar purpled. <1k but the series is longer

Blood Games by ghostdrinkssoda : q centric hurt-no-comfort that has some karlnapity but also engages with q as a bad person. 7k

where lies the strangling fruit by katsidhe : prison arc angst/whump. pretty heavy; mind the tags. sam & q & dream. 34k, unfinished

agatha by headlikeahole : wilbur's suicide note. collage/digital art. <1k

Tier X̅ by Pegasister60 : purpled's limbo is an empty bedwars map. 2k

one last lie for old times' sake by curseworm, VenetaPsi : wilbur tries to apologize to quackity before killing himself. quackity isn't having it. 18k

[laf-outloud]

//I'll never look at Jensen the same way, even if Jared has forgiven and moved on. //

This. 1000x this.

It’s not that I hate Jensen or anything. I was a Jensen leaning J2 fan. Dean is my favorite character.

He’s just not the person I thought he was.

It’s been 2 years since prequel gate, and Jensen has yet to show any actions that redeems him of his shitty behavior. More so it’s done the opposite. It’s like blinders were removed and I saw the real Jensen, and since then, he seems to double down on the narcissistic and ego-driven behavior. TW, RC, FBBC, the way he never stands for anything except how to gain a buck.

Whereas I always hope to see the old Jensen come back—the person of integrity, the caring and giving character. Fun loving spirit.

I remember Jensen once said the best advice he received was “it’s important to have morals and values, like integrity and strength of character. Because if you don’t stand for something, then you fall for anything.”

Where is that dude??! Where did that guy go?? It seems the greed and ego of running the supernatural legacy made him lose his way and his values. He doesn’t seem to stand for anything now and why he falls for anything.

He tells fans what they want to hear versus standing up for Dean as a character or what the storyline of supernatural is. Where he used to do that before. In the last 2 years it’s just been about seeing dollar signs from the fandom. It’s just about the money and getting his ego fed.

It’s not about whether Jared forgave him.

To me, he’s become a washout. Nothing really special about him anymore. He ruined his own image himself and he’s been unable to redeem what I thought was his moral sensibilities. I’ve come to the conclusion that it may be that’s he’s possibly incapable of redemption. Jensen probably is the greedy, lazy, selfish and arrogant person he is presenting himself to be.

I hate to burst your bubble, but I don't think the old Jensen was who people thought he was. Going as far back to the YANA debacle, he's shown that he's willing to do whatever he can for his own good. (I would even posit that his talk with Jared about quitting in S3 was also for his own good.) It's just that during the run of SPN, his own good aligned with Jared and the show.

i also think he benefited from being in Jared's orbit. Having a really good person around can elevate someone beyond who they normally are, like supporting OutYouth when Jared did, or 'caring' about mental health after Jared publicly shared what he was going through.

I would also say that Jensen hasn't shown his better traits since the end of SPN because they just don't exist, or if they did, it was only ever surface level. That's not to say I would write him off completely. I wouldn't do that with anyone, but like you, I have a hard time seeing beyond the narcissist he's currently portraying to the world.

[davekat-sucks]

I did enjoy the candy Jade stuff in the most recent update involving her, but the reason for that is due to there being some consequences for once in this story. It is lessened by the fact that, as you said, its extremely obvious that things will turn out fine in the end, but it was nice to feel something for a few moments other than utter boredom of going through the motions.

I also disagree with the spite thing, but less because I don't believe you, and more because imo they completely sucked with the spite. Like for a series that apparently revels in pissing off the audience, it sure is embarassing to me that three separate teams over different sequel properties all failed at making me feel the slightest bit angry. But you know, this and my belief that them ditching the epis would be a weak move (considering how much hs liked to discard and bury things before) is personal preference and me being weird.

I do agree with you that Calliope gets off way too easy. Alt Calliope less so, because despite being "one of the most power characters", its pretty obvious that she's an isolated friendless weirdo who is going to fail because nobody like or respects her. But both normal Calliope's weirdly get a lot of rope, despite doing a ton of weird shit not commented on.

But addressing the consequences was too little too late by the time Beyond Canon talks about this. Because in the early pages when it all went down, Kanaya seething and bottling up her emotions inside was not implied or shown. Most had assume that she was fine and that Rose, Kanaya, and Jade were in a 3 poly relationship. OT3 is still a thing in the fandom and that doesn't involve quadrants. It just affirms the worse that WhatPumpkin hated Rosemary and Jade's character assassination was needed to shield themselves from criticism. Don't you fucking say that everything Jade does was IN-CHARACTER. If it was Ult Dirk or Alt Calliope forcing Jade to do these horrible things ever since Epilogues, it's not been that obvious or even confirmed by the people behind it to say that Jade is not really herself in all of this bullshit. And yet that's how it is with James admitting it that Hussie and the rest, had made Epilogues and Homestuck 2/Beyond Canon out of spite. Hell, Epilogues was suppose to be just the Vriska Show. Even now with this recent update, it's all about Vriska's Redemption Arc #7 after already having gone through it from her ghost self in Act 6. I also see that trolling and spiting the audiences are two completely different things. At least for the trolling part in early acts, it was meant to be funny and it does cause impact within the narrative or story. But by Post Retcon, it is just necessary drama that is just as bad as early Act 6 with the Alpha Kids. The shit we have seen in Epilogues and HS2/Beyond Canon ain't trolling, it is pure spite and hatred. If it's just trolling, why isn't Hussie still around to fuck with us? Why leave? You can't seriously believe he was a victim just by reading his self ego boosting autobiography Psycholonials. So why can't the team play it even with this Calliope for her to get screwed over? Not just Alt Calliope? Because right now, she gets back with Roxy after Roxy divorced John. They are lesbians again and nothing is standing in their way. Same for the Roxy and Calliope in the Meat Timeline. Bitch has it easy compared to others.

[kishimotomasashi]

A symptom of having been in the online Naruto fandom for a few years now and having Sasuke as my favourite character means that I’ve been incessantly exposed (at the very least, on Tumblr) to arguments about Sasuke not receiving his due justice, being condemned by the narrative for expressing anger at the crimes committed against him and his family, and how the ending of the Naruto manga completely dropped the ball regarding any and all of its political plot threads, leaving the status quo intact, and the only change regarding Sasuke in particular is that he is now complacent with it.

These are arguments that I entirely agree with! And I don’t think there’s anything wrong with their frequent discussion, seeing as Naruto is a very popular manga and new fans will take the place of the old ones. It doesn’t surprise me that the discourse hasn’t slowed down, because new people are discovering it and will want to chime in. This is fine and natural.

But for me, from the perspective of someone who’s been here a while and has seen talk of this happen over, and over and over and over and over again, it understandably gets a little... exhausting. Especially since, as far as I’ve seen, the discourse rarely goes outside of “here is how Sasuke was wronged, here is how the shinobi military industrial complex is fucked up”, and so it feels like I’m seeing less interesting conversations regarding it and more parroting the same universally agreed upon ideas over and over.

It’s just... boring. Because even when the discussion goes outside of “this is why it’s wrong” and enters “here’s how it should have gone” territory, I rarely see it go anywhere beyond “Sasuke should’ve remained angry” “Sasuke should’ve never gone back” “Sasuke should have rejected—“ etc, etc. Sasuke and the Revolution discourse rarely goes beyond Sasuke’s personal vindication regarding Konoha. And to me, it’s just... is that really as far as our imagination extends? Is Sasuke’s anger really the most important thing to focus on? Should anger be the main driving force behind changing a world that is undoubtedly unjust?

My answer to all of those questions is, obviously, no. And I’m writing this to explain why, to propose an alternative to the vindication tunnel vision there happens to be regarding Sasuke vs Konoha/Shinobi System discourse, that I believe even the ending of Naruto (barring chapter 700 and onward to Boruto) provides a solid basis for.

First let’s talk about chapter 699, and Sasuke’s decision not to stay in Konoha but to journey around the world instead.

Now when people talk about Sasuke’s journey, they mostly focus on the part where he calls it a “journey of redemption” and so a lot of discussions concerning whether or not he should have stayed in Konoha revolve around that line and its reasoning. It’s all “he doesn’t NEED redemption” or “oh please journey of redemption is bullshit, stay in Konoha to heal with your friends”.

Which is a damn shame because what he says in the panels above? Before the “you have nothing to do with my sins” thing? Is significantly more interesting. In fact, I consider it a monumental statement for him to make, indicative of his development; it’s the culmination of all he’s been through to get him to this point.

This line is Sasuke recognizing his own limitations related to the volatile emotional state he was nearly constantly in beforehand; Sasuke’s view of the world was incredibly selfish. It was selfish in the sense that his own goals mattered before anything else, that anything slowing him down in his hurry to reach them was an obstacle; it was an incredibly unhealthy view of the world, one that ended up making him hurt himself and others. That his goals are sympathetic and understandable doesn’t really change the reality that he did put himself in danger and was a danger to those closest to him. When we meet him for the first time in Shippuden, at Orochimaru’s hideout, he says word-for-word:

“I don’t care what happens to me or to the rest of the world, so long as I can get my revenge. Nothing else matters.”

And even when the truth about Itachi is revealed to him, this doesn’t exactly change. It’s only his range of targets that expand, and what he did to get to those targets in the 5 Kage Summit arc are unarguably his lowest points in the entire series. While there is a double-standard regarding how Sasuke’s anger and hatred are treated in the narrative, it’s not incorrect to say that his laser focus on them were ultimately harmful in the end, and that to grow he could not continue to rely on them indefinitely.

In fact, Sasuke is always shown to be at his best when he’s not so angry his view of the world is only concentrated on what he alone can see. Sasuke when observant of others is kind, has compassion and understanding and a willingness to prioritize others’ safety: we see this when he protects Team 7 all throughout part 1, and when he protects Team Taka in the Killer B fight. When he’s not clouded by his own rage, Sasuke also has a better willingness to learn: when Itachi left him after their fight against Kabuto, he went out of his way to learn more about the village he’d come to justifiably despise, to understand Itachi’s own point of view, and to learn the point of view of those that had built it. Sasuke in general is someone who doesn’t accept things so readily and is constantly questioning things even when he’s set his mind to them, and he is also someone who does have a clear idea of justice: needless human suffering on a large scale is something he’s disgusted by (see how he reacts to Itachi before he learned the truth and to Orochimaru). When he’s truly of the mind to sit down and listen, that potential is increased tenfold. He came out from under the Nakano Shrine after speaking with Hashirama and the other Hokage seeing the shinobi system as something that causes needless human suffering on a large scale, and though he’s not quite at the ideal point yet, the idea to do something about it (to dismantle that system) is there.

And now here we are, chapter 699: Sasuke’s anger is no longer his main driving force, and he is learning to accept love back in his life, and what does he say? That he’s going to look at the world, now, with new eyes. That he’s going to take advantage of this new healing state of his, to properly observe the world because his perception of it isn’t obstructed by his unhealthy vengeance fixation anymore. Sasuke, who already has the capacity for compassion, who already has a sense of justice, who knows how to listen and observe, is now going to take the time to use these foundations to build himself a more expansive perception of the world. He’s showing willingness to look outside of himself!

Now before I talk about the point I really want to get to, I want to talk about anger. I know anger is often portrayed as something awful in many stories (including this one), as something that is a personal failing next to those who can just endure what is thrown at them with little complaint, and that it’s a narrow view of it. Anger is a very useful emotion, and sometimes a necessary one: anger helps you perceive injustice done to yourself or others, anger can help you prevent people walking all over you and help you to recognize that you’re not getting something that you deserve. I’ll never condemn anger.

And I don’t condemn Sasuke’s anger! I am very firmly in the “Sasuke was right” camp; I don’t think he has to kiss up to a government so cowardly it wiped his people from the face of the Earth in the dead of night, I think a system that can justify a crime that outrageous while it continues to perpetuate itself needs to be entirely dismantled. And I believe that though there are limits to how seriously you should take this shounen animanga, the fact that these plotlines were introduced in the first place as well as every other time shinobi militaristic violence was clearly shown as being evil but were given shitty resolutions means that it is both normal and in fact encouraged to point out that these introduced plotlines were given really, really shitty resolutions.

Though while anger and pointing out how wrong things are are incredibly useful, when you really want to start talking about revolutionary action, incentive to change the world, I think that anger alone is insufficient.

Specifically in Sasuke’s case, as I’ve said above, Sasuke’s anger is ultimately selfish. He sees how he himself was wronged, and that’s great, but like... he’s also not the only one who suffers under the shinobi system. He’s not the only one it’s brought incredible wrong toward. Even when he demonstrated growth during the 4th War and was willing to expand his own knowledge to better understand why Konoha exists as it is, he wasn’t sharing what he’d learned with others, he wasn’t reaching out to build connections, to build solidarity— he was working on his plan entirely alone.

(And yes, we can talk about how the narrative purposefully makes the villain characters seem more unreasonable though they have justified feelings on why the system cannot continue as is, but again, as I’ve said at the start, we’ve had those conversations at length already.)

I believe genuine change, the desire to see a better world, has to fundamentally come from the desire to see people in a better place, not from vengeance. I think to get there, you need to see how other people live aside from yourself, you need to work at helping them see their lives becoming better as well. “No one’s free until we’re all free”, etc. I think your outrage at injustice has to extend to everyone outside of yourself, and your fight against the injustice be also a fight for them.

As I’ve demonstrated, Sasuke in chapter 699 in the space where he can actually work at doing that, to work at doing direct, radical action. Travelling as he wants to do will introduce him to more people, to more perspectives, to more ideas on how to meaningfully combat the injustices of the shinobi system and to directly help people to escape suffering the worst of it.

Recently I watched the Sasuke Shinden anime, and though it was still incredibly imperfect in its politics, it introduced the idea of Sasuke doing the closest thing to everything I am saying right now: it introduces shinobi being forced to fight in a human trafficking coliseum, and Sasuke being told by one of the characters, Chino, that being an inactive third party to injustice makes you just as guilty to it, which leads Sasuke in the end to free all shinobi forced to fight in the coliseum.

It also introduced the idea (and I was genuinely surprised that anything Naruto-related was actually willing to go there) of the Uchiha Clan, and by extension Sasuke, being victims but also being perpetrators of the same system that got them killed. In Shinden, they were hired by a feudal lord to deport another oppressed kekkei genkai clan called the Chinoike (that Chino is apart of) to a land unsuitable for any human to live in, and rather than help the Chinoike escape this fate, they simply carried out the mission order, which caused suffering for the clan. While I don’t think that that plotline was handled as well as it could’ve been, it really hammers in the point of it being important to learn about the position and suffering of others and to do something about it, because despite your own suffering, your participation in the system that perpetuates it still makes you complicit. And Sasuke accepts this! When he learns about the Uchiha and the Chinoike, he relates it to when Chino told him about being an audience to injustice making you just as bad if you don’t do anything about it. I think Sasuke Shinden is a good, if imperfect, snapshot into the very potential I’m talking about.

In fact, all of this is why I really believe it to be important that Sasuke travels and works outside of Konoha rather than within it; because as we’ve seen with Nagato and Amegakure, being apart of the Hidden Villages themselves, fighting in their wars and participating in their ranks, makes you complicit in the crimes they commit against the other smaller nations. Everyone we’ve seen fight in the wars, the Sannin, Kakashi, everyone in allegiance with Konoha and yes, including the Uchiha Clan, share responsibility in the crimes the village commits, even if they’ve personally suffered at its hands as well. Nagato, Konan and Yahiko are certainly justified if they don’t care that your war buddy died in front of you since you both had a hand in the destruction of their village for your military village’s interests.

This is also why on my blog, I am constantly advocating for the potential Team Taka represented. They were all shinobi working outside of the framework of the Hidden Villages, with little allegiance to them, and given that Sasuke in the ending is open to apologizing for his behaviour and accepting bonds again, they could’ve easily travelled together again in the ending and done just exactly everything that I’ve been talking about in this post. And they could’ve become closer than ever!

I think it’s telling, in a way, that what finally got to Sasuke in the end was genuine empathy; acceptance to realize there are other people around like him, that might share what he feels, and this is done through Naruto, someone who saw his own loneliness in him but that Sasuke rejected because he felt (understandably) defensive that anyone should get how he felt at all. Sasuke healing in learning that he can understand people other than himself, safely, is a big step into learning to properly observe and accept others, and then that’s another step that could lead into genuine revolutionary consciousness.

My conclusion here isn’t that any of this was something Kishimoto was actually going for. It’s that despite everything, there are already interesting building blocks in Sasuke’s canon characterization in place where you could create a meaningful story about resisting oppression and fighting for change, one that doesn’t surround a myopic, vengeful idea of it. I dont think of that as an interesting path for Sasuke’s character, especially since he already spends most of the series with nothing but vengeance in mind. I think he has the potential to do better, and we have the potential to write fix-it stories in which he does better than that.

[featherlumina]

8, 12 and 17 for the ask game 😁

Thank you so much @duttfisch! Apologies for the Genesis spam below, haha. XD

8. Common fandom opinion that everyone is wrong about.

GENESIS BEING INCLUDED IN THE NIBELHEIM INCIDENT. People treat this like some unholy retcon, the greatest narrative sin Square Enix could've committed via the Compilation. And I for one think that's a complete over-reaction.

Seriously. Sure, Sephiroth's definitely not in a good mental headspace by now, but having Genesis water the freshly planted seeds in Seph's mind in the reactor only serves to drive him further down in a really believable way. I always found it a little odd how quickly Seph seemed to spiral in the OG (admittedly Rebirth handled it better), so I think the addition of Genesis makes the scene more fleshed out and raises even more questions for Sephiroth to investigate in the manor.

And a fun one for good measure that's been disproven by Nomura himself - the fact that everyone is like 'hurr durr Genesis can't come back cause Gackt says no / Square won't pay for his likeness'. Admittedly less people are using this as a 'ew no Genesis is icky he can't come back' now, but it was SUPER annoying for like a decade up till this point.

12. The unpopular character that you actually like and why more people should like them.

Feel like I should be putting my clown makeup on at this point because yep, my answer's Genesis! Again! XD Between the rest of the awesome peeps / moots on Tumblr who've argued for why Gen actually is or has the potential to be really interesting, I think it's fairly obvious why, but I'll summarise my view.

Basically, Genesis suffered from poor writing. Between that and the intense LOVELESS quoting making up the majority of his dialogue, I can see why it frustrated people. But if you look beyond that you'll discover some really neat stuff:

Having Genesis (and by extension, Angeal) as prototypes to Sephiroth actually makes boatloads of sense scientifically. You can't expect ShinRa to pop out Sephiroth on the first try, can you?

Genesis can basically go toe-to-toe with Sephiroth for an extended period of time, which is just... insane, when you think about it. Cloud and Zack have both reached similar heights but Sephiroth is just on a whole other level, so the fact there are a select few who can last against him is just really neat.

Bro had his world shattered and understandably lashed out at the company that shaped and controlled his entire existence. We're on Zack's side for Crisis Core, but it's pretty clear the real world-destroyers are ShinRa, and I think Crisis Core could've done a better job at helping us see Gen's perspective a bit more.

His aesthetic is just gorgeous, let's be honest here. That red coat is iconic and I want it. Superb character design (bless you Gackt for choosing red over black or white.)

Canonically he was well-liked and respected by the majority of SOLDIER, given that he convinced so many SOLDIERs to leave with him. People don't just follow you to the ends of the earth willy-nilly. Also, despite being an 'introvert' and averse to large people groups, he displayed kindness and gentleness with his younger comrades. Gillian called him 'such a good boy' for a reason, damn it!

...and I probably have more, but my hands are tired. XD

17. There should be more of this type of fic/art.

Honestly, I'm a sucker for hurt/injured/degrading Genesis and him both going through trauma and then being comforted and cared for by his loved ones. It's a major part of why I started Thing With Feathers after all. XD

I also love seeing how people explore Genesis' relationship with his changing body/his wing. I could read stuff about that for days.

Also would love to see more written redemption arcs for Genesis, whether it's through 'what-if' AUs or post DoC.

Lastly, I'm not hugely into overly sexual stuff, so any of the above fics without anything explicit is just *chef's kiss*. Of course I understand that many folks love the spicy stuff on its own or mixed into a plot, and that's okay! Just not my cup of tea is all.

[tvuniverse]

Listen i just want to preface this by saying I don't even personally hate Tommy, but that's not really the point i want to make so here goes nothing.

The way a lot of people act as if it's impossible to dislike him because the characters have moved on so so should we, right? and that's the thing right here, as poc we're always being told to move on. We can't express our feelings, we can't hold grudges, we can't complain about issues without making it something more than it is, we always have to just... move on.

I know people are going to say it's just a show, it's not that serious, but the issues it touches on and the way fandom speaks on those issues are.

I've seen a lot of comparisons between Tommy and other mains, how each of them are flawed and have screwed up one way or another, and you're right, but it's still unfair to compare him to them. We've seen each of the main characters experience guilt, or be ashamed of their action, we've seen them apologise, put in the work to actually grow, and they have. There's not enough time in an episode for us to see that for side characters. In this case, Tommy didn't do any of the above and that's normal, he was a plot device to show some very real societal issues, and especially what people of colour/women might go through in the workplace, and once he served his purpose he didn't get much more beyond a few scenes where it seemed like everything was fine between him and chim/hen. It would be more appropriate to compare him to the buckley parents, (who appeared in more or less the same amount of episodes) like if people suddendly started saying no one is allowed to hate them because they got their redemption, their kids more or less forgave them, they more or less tried to be better parents. And yet it's still not enough for a lot of people, because how they treated their children, the shit they've said to them, hits a little too close to home for a lot of people and so no matter what the show says or does, they'll still be mostly hated by the audience, and that's more than okay. But if margaret buckley is your favourite character than by all means be my guest. And listen, i love this show, it's all about hope, and it means everyone gets a redemption arc, as short as it is (sometimes even just a sentence lol), but we won't always be satisfied with these arcs, especially if they don't feel proportional to the hurt the characters may have caused to our mains, so we'll all have different reactions to them.

I swear liking a morally ambiguous/grey character says absolutely nothing about you, but making excuses for them, antagonising people who might dislike them (for good reasons) or acting like suddenly triggers don't exist for people, does say something about you. One of my favourite characters is literally the worst person ever, an actual bigot, but i won't ever write essays about why people are not allowed to dislike him actually because he's my babygirl.. i very much understand why people would.

All of this to say, everyone will have different opinions about Tommy. Some might love him, some will be completely neutral or at worst slightly uncomfortable/bothered by him, and some will straight up hate him, and all of these are fine. Live and let live, love whoever you want to love, and hate whoever you want to hate, but please stop trying to dictate how others should feel, i'm begging. And this really does go both ways.

[kbrick]

What do you think about the Draco haters? Personally I don't get them. I don't get how you can feel hatred for a child who was raised by fucked up people and then had to do awful things that he obviously hated to survive and keep his family safe too. All as a minor. Where has all the empathy gone? It's like they think they're talking about a hardened criminal lol. Why are people like this?

Okay, I'll be honest with you, nonny, I'm of two minds about this.

The thing that I feel in my gut when I see this sentiment out in the wild is irritation and maybe a little flare of anger. Because I love Draco. He's my favorite. I empathize with Draco, with what he went through in canon, and I also associate him with the thousand redemption character arcs I've read about him at this point. Have I argued with people on reddit over whether Draco should have been sentenced to life in Azkaban? Yes, I have. Am I proud of that? No, I am not. Looking back, it kinda makes me feel like an idiot.

I try to remind myself of two things when I feel this way. One, Draco is a character, not a real person, and we're talking about literature, not real life, and so it's really not that serious (please note - this is not usually effective in talking myself down off the ledge, but it ought to be mentioned).

And two, I used to hate (well, maybe strongly dislike) Draco.

I came to the fandom late (as a full-fledged adult!), but in my younger years, I was a big HP fan. I had all the books on a bookshelf in my room, I had a poster, I had pencils with big erasers on the end in the shape of the house mascots. I had my favorite Harry Potter mug (which just recently met an ignoble end on my kitchen floor, RIP favorite mug - and now I can't buy a replacement because I no longer buy HP merch because JKR is such a terrible human being and I refuse to support her...but I digress!).

And let's be honest: Draco Malfoy is a complete asshat in the books. He's the villain. He's petty, he's mean, he's arrogant with nothing at all to back it up. He says horrible things to Hermione, who was my very favorite character back when I read the series. And I was young enough to accept characters at face value back then, so yeah, I kind of hated Draco. I wasn't ranting about him online or anything, but if somebody would have asked me what I thought of him, I'd have probably blown a raspberry and given them a thumbs down.

It wasn't until the later books (Half-Blood Prince, specifically), that I began to neutralize on my view of Draco. Even back then, I felt bad for him in that bathroom scene. But it wasn't until I started reading Drarry (as an adult) that I looked back at Draco as a character and realized what a fucking delight he actually was (not in the sense that he was 'good' or whatever, but he was an excellent foil for Harry and was incredibly entertaining).

And part of this is maturity, I think. As a full-fledged adult, I no longer take characters at face value. I no longer think- oh, this character is being mean to the good guy, therefore they are a bad guy and I hate them. Instead, I think - wow, something is going on with this character, to make them act this way. They're so desperate for attention, or they're so insecure, or they were hurt so badly when xyz happened that they're lashing out. I look for the WHYS in characters. And Draco has a lot of whys, especially in fanon, and so it has become easy to empathize with him and like him.

Another part of it is that I have become a writer, and I appreciate complicated, compelling characters, and I'm no longer interested in Mary Sue good guys who are always noble and do everything right. Because let's be honest: people are not that way. We shouldn't write them that way. That's not truth, and I want to read and write truth.

But for readers who do not value characters beyond the hero, or who have chosen not to look more closely at character whys, Draco is a bad guy. He's not insecure; he's arrogant. It's not hurt feelings; it's a mean streak. And to be frank, I think JKR herself viewed Draco in this way (for the most part). Yes, she gave him some depth towards the end of the books, but I honestly think that was due to pressure from fans who wanted a redemption arc for Draco (and really, it's a half-assed redemption arc at best). I think JKR is a mostly black-and-white thinker, and I think she wrote a mostly black-and-white series. Harry and his friends are good, Draco and his friends are bad. Voldemort is evil. The end.

So I suppose what I'm saying is that I understand why people don't like Draco as a character. I think it suggests a bit of closed-mindedness on their parts, and maybe a lack of empathy, and that they're horribly boring irl (ha, had to get that dig in there). But the truth is that people are allowed to feel how they want to feel about characters. I'm not the interpretation police.

Does that mean I no longer get fired up when somebody on reddit says Draco should've been sentenced to life in Azkaban? Nope, I'm not that mature, come on. Will I continue arguing with them about it? I hope I'm beyond that, but we'll see. Do I still love Draco with all my heart? I do, and so you know what? I'm going to keep writing about him and enjoying him.

That's about all I have to say about that. Which was a LOT, actually. Who knew?

Thanks for the ask, nonny :) It was an interesting one.

[rebelrebelwrites]

Fic Friday! ❤️ Rebel's Weekly Fic Recs

This week's recs are...

As always, please mind the tags on any recommended story for your own personal preferences.

+++

The Classic You’ve Heard Of But Somehow Haven’t Read Yet: That Which Lies Across the Sea by EisforEverything

What you need to know going in:

Mmm, this fic. Part of a larger series called Use Well the Days (also primarily all WIP) that follows Mairon's story from his fall to his days with Galadriel and beyond, this fic is the last in the series, and it sees Sauron following Galadriel to Valinor after the end of LOTR. Humbling himself before the Valar, he seeks something if not true redemption. Meanwhile, the rest of Valinor chafes at his return, and without saying too much, there are repercussions to his—and everyone's—actions in Middle-earth. This ruminative, spellbinding story is rich with lore and just rich in general; a sumptuous feast of a fic you can sink your teeth into. Galadriel and Mairon's moments together are potent, but it's not just them. Prepare for heady altercations with many of your Tolkien favorites here.

WIP, Explicit

Read the story.

Follow the author on AO3.

+++

The AU You Need to Immerse Yourself In Because, Well, Wow: A Stressed Tiding by @formerlyir

What you need to know going in:

-fans self- THIS FIC, let me tell you... was one of the first I read in this fandom, and hot damn, what a way to dive into Saurondriel/Haladriel. I've recommended @formerlyir's fics before, and will again because they're stupendously written and well-realized, but this one holds a special place in my heart for its steamy-as-all-hell premise and smut. A one-shot, post-S1 in which Galadriel offers Sauron a tantalizing deal: one night and one day together if they both don't participate in their impending battle—to help her turn the tide of the war, of course. 👀 This is seriously Saurondriel at my absolute favorite: brimming with angst and enemies-to-lovers-but-basically-still-enemies and 🔥🔥🔥 smut? Burning hot.

Complete, Explicit

Read the story.

Follow the author on Twitter, Instagram, and on AO3.

+++

The Complete But Never Forgotten Masterpiece: Through Peril and Fire by @yletylyf

What you need to know going in:

I struggled between picking between this fic and another I'm reading of @yletylyf's as they're both wonderful, but decided I should start with this completed fic! Post-S1, Galadriel follows Sauron to Mt. Doom, and facing a threat larger than their current conflict with each other, they team up (with help from some of our other Tolkien favorites) to save Middle-earth together. What struck me most about this fic is just how damn delightful it is. Don't get me wrong, it has its moments of angst and inner turmoil for our two lovebirds, but it's also so witty, so winsome in its banter and characterization and fine-tuned plot, you can just gobble it up for hours. A damn delight, indeed.

Complete, Teen & Up

Read the story.

Follow the author on Tumblr and AO3.

+++

The WIP That Will Wreck You (In the Best Way): The Lesser of Two Evils by @thrillofhope

What you need to know going in:

Another post-S1 masterpiece in the making to share! Can I ever get enough of those? Absolutely not, and I'm sure many of you can't either. In this one from @thrillofhope (another writer you'll see repeatedly on this list, I'm sure), Sauron returns to Eregion to strike an alliance with the elves and our dear Galadriel, for fear of a returned Morgoth. Grudgingly, they concoct a plan to work together against the OG Dark Lord, who's still regaining his full strength. One of my favorite things about this fic is simply how much of a smarmy little shit Sauron is—it feels so achingly in character, and makes for a biting interplay between him and Galadriel that's delicious to consume. Characterization is super strong in this fic, and not just for our favorites, but for all Tolkien characters we have the pleasure of seeing in this story. There's still more to go, but I recommend you get caught up immediately... I have a feeling this one is going to be even more of a doozy than it already is.

WIP, Mature

Read the story.

Follow the author on Tumblr and AO3.

+++

The Can’t Stop Consuming No Matter What Time It Is Fic: Beasts of the Hill and Serpents of the Den by @demonscantgothere

What you need to know going in:

Another @demonscantgothere classic! I'd be surprised if you haven't read it yet, as I feel like it's very well-known and well-loved (rightly so!), but just in case some of you haven't, the premise sees Galadriel in the First Age, offering herself in place of Finrod when he's trapped in Tol-in-Gaurhoth, BATB-style. This fic evokes feelings of a fairytale, but with a LOT more smut, and it's spicy. All manner of spiciness here, folks. Hot Ones has nothing on Helholden (@demonscantgothere). In addition to the absolutely 🔥🔥🔥 smut, prepare for a very mercurial Mairon—sorry, Halbrand! Couldn't resist the alliteration—a younger, more innocent but no less exacting Galadriel, and other wonderful inclusions from the First Age, including werewolves, Thuringwethil, Morgoth (at least by association, so far), and more. I don't want to spoil anything, so just go read it. 20 chapters in, 80 to go, according to the current count. In other words: hell yes.

WIP, Explicit

Read the story.

Follow the author on Tumblr and on AO3.

+++

🤩🤩🤩

Me at all these fics:

Don’t see your story on this list yet? Keyword: yet. Please don’t fret! I can only recommend so many each week, but I am always looking for more stuff to read, share, and generally shower with love, so please feel free to reply with your own fics or your personal faves. I have plenty more to recommend… ❤️

Until next week!

[melis-writes]

Why you don’t like Apollonia? (I get this vibe from u, but correct me if I’m wrong)

You're 100% correct about the vibes. 🤣🤣 I don't like Apollonia at all, whatsoever and it's because the Godfather fandom completely ruined her character for me. 🥰

It's not just the new Godfather enjoyers, like gen z or millennials but also the boomers. Apollonia is sadly a vessel for misogyny in the Godfather from Apollonia stans alone. I can't look past it even if I tried; I get Apollonia stans commenting nasty shit on my gifsets of Kay (that's how annoying + bothered they are) and trying to start discourse over any post that highlights a miniscule positive thing about Kay Adams.

It's disgusting to see how Apollonia is glorified for being the quiet, submissive and obedient housewife. She's what Michael "needs" and is the "perfect wife" and the ones that put Apollonia on a pedestal like this are misogynists, vehemently sprout the nastiest shit about Kay and women like Kay that you'll ever hear, talk about how Apollonia could have "changed" and "fixed" Michael (dude is beyond redemption and is almost a sociopath) and could have birthed him "lots of babies". Literally, that's all Apollonia is "known" for and loved for, it's pathetically sad. The bar really is in hell.

So while Apollonia is praised for all of these hypothetical scenarios, Kay and women like Kay are shit on, ridiculed and picked apart to pieces. It's disgusting and whether it's a boomer enjoyer or someone my age, they'll be saying the exact same shit like it's scripted or clockwork or something about Apollonia every single time.

Apollonia's young age is also glorified even though she's a minor/child, and don't even get me started on the scene of her undressing in front of Michael--I know it's a little off topic and more about Simonetta as an actress but the fact that there's grown ass men fawning over a minor's breasts makes me want to actually vomit.

Putting aside the misogynistic culture some Godfather fans have placed upon Apollonia here, I don't like the character itself. To me, it's obvious she was a filler, empty character Mario Puzo wrote and used to develop Michael's character development because she's literally never mentioned again unless you want to count Michael confessing to Kay he "slept with someone" in the book while he was abroad.

Apollonia was never in love with Michael and Michael wasn't in love with her. Apollonia's father got giddy at the idea of his daughter's beauty bringing in a rich, powerful and influential man who was the son of a Vito Corleone. Nobody cared what else Michael had to offer the Vitelli family besides reputation, wealth and physical protection. Nothing even mentions if anyone cared how Michael would treat Apollonia but oh boy, Michael showed it well. He literally refused to let her leave home for a week and all he did was have sex with her over and over again. And every single time, Apollonia would just get up, shower, fuck off and do something and Michael would just lay there. She would just do whatever he wanted and yet somehow, the Godfather fandom is screaming "true love" and "soulmate" when it's literally just Michael being horny. I need y'all to understand this man was thinking with his dick only.

I don't care who likes/stans Apollonia, all I want is for people to be respectful about the whole Apollonia and Kay thing. If Apollonia's as amazing as some people claim, then I'd sure hope she can brought up without the mention of Michael being in a relationship with her and without dissing Kay in the same sentence (IMPOSSIBLE CHALLENGE EDITION).

Apollonia and the whole Sicily arc is so far gone and damaged to me that I just skip that scene when watching the movie and pretend it didn't happen because of all the bullshit that went out in the fandom and is still ongoing today. 😐