#characters fandom says are completely beyond redemption:

[getvalentined]

Friendly reminder that the only reason Genesis is the antagonist of Crisis Core is because Zack is with Shinra. Literally.

Once he's on the run, once Genesis knows that Zack can't help him, he literally brings Hollander to Gongaga for Zack to kill—he tells Zack what Hollander is planning under the guise of it being a joint effort, but once Hollander runs off, Genesis then tells Zack what he intends to do. He talks to him about Loveless and the Lifestream, he shoves a Banora White into his hands when Zack charges at him, and then he leaves. Hollander is left behind—in Zack's hometown, his own turf, so there's nowhere to run and nowhere to hide—allowing Zack to enact poetic justice at last by striking down Angeal's birth father with the very sword that the man who actually raised Angeal died to earn, the sword that honorless Gillian said represented all the honor the Hewleys had left.

And then, finally realizing what's actually going on, Zack sets out to to Banora to save Genesis from dying.

There's no point after Modeoheim that Genesis outright attacks Zack until he's cured at the Light of Doom; there, he calls Zack First Class SOLDIER even though he's not anymore, because Genesis isn't trying to strike down Zack, he's trying to reclaim the right to the only title he's ever had that felt worth anything, and he's trying to take the burden of that title from Zack.

If he wins, Genesis takes the guilt of killing both Angeal and Sephiroth—because he doesn't know Cloud's role, he doesn't know that Zack wasn't the one to strike Sephiroth down, he doesn't even know Cloud's name. Conversely, if he loses, then it's confirmation that Zack is the hero of the story, truly and completely, and that's all right too. If that's how the story ends, that's how it ends. (Minerva intervenes, pulls Genesis from the duel, and he never gets to see the ending. The final act, as in his beloved ancient poem, remains a mystery.)

Genesis is the main antagonist of Crisis Core, but he's never been the bad guy. The entirety of Final Fantasy VII has a single monolith of villainy, and that's always been—and will always be—Shinra. Shinra made the Reactors and dug up Jenova. Shinra made Genesis, Sephiroth, Angeal, and DeepGround. Shinra burned Kalm, Banora, and (partially) Nibelheim. Shinra used any corpse they found or made as research fodder. Shinra killed the last fullblooded Cetra and drove her only daughter to a place where the only way to save the people she loved was through her death. Shinra is the bad guy.

Zack is with Shinra for the majority of the game, and thus the story behaves accordingly. Shinra's enemies are Zack's enemies, because that's the side he's on. Shinra sees Avalanche as enemies, too, but no one ever refers to Barret or Elfe as "irredeemably evil" the way they do Genesis. Barret dresses up his quest for revenge in the guise of saving the planet, but all that matters to him is that anyone even remotely connected to the company suffers the way he's suffered. Elfe allowed Fuhito to experiment on people, to take the corpses of SOLDIER and make undead weapons out of them, violating the sanctity of their final rest and denying them entry to the Lifestream altogether.

"Genesis experimented on his men!" It was a desertion, not an abduction. People who become Copies when they aren't properly enhanced don't get the same enhanced abilities as a First and they degrade very quickly, we see that in Hollander and Lazard—meaning that every single Genesis Copy was one of those SOLDIER Seconds or Thirds that defected with Genesis of their own free will in Wutai after he grew a wing and the world turned upside-down. Genesis' men loved him and they went along willingly.

When Genesis locks himself up in the Light of Doom, his last hope for a cure, he has one last Copy in there with him. When Zack unlocks the gate, he's attacked by one last Copy, even though Genesis has been waiting for him, he's not antagonistic toward him anymore, he hasn't been for a long time.

Genesis took that last Copy, a man with a horrible disease who is definitely too far gone to save, and brought him along to the Light of Doom in the hopes that maybe, maybe things could be set right. When Zack unlocks the gate, that man throws himself at him to protect Genesis, because this is his last chance and Genesis' men love him.

When Zack fights Genesis' Weapon avatar and is attacked by incomplete and twisted ghosts of Genesis Copies, magical inhuman wisps that hold him back while Genesis heals—they're in the Lifestream then, the Light of Doom pulled them both in. Those Copies are literally the ghosts of Genesis' men, unable to diffuse into the Lifestream because of their Jenova infection, fighting to protect him from beyond the grave. Genesis' men love him. They want to save him. They went with him willingly.

"Genesis killed his parents!" The parents who lied to him his entire life in order to keep getting a paycheck from Shinra? The parents that funded his fanclub as a form of marketing for a company that literally wouldn't exist without Genesis' world-changing contribution to food processing as a teenager? Those parents?

Genesis has a little shrine in the Banora Underground where he keeps all his awards and achievements—a little desk with a lantern in an unfinished stone tunnel. They survived the bombing of Banora because they weren't in the house; the chalkboard has sketches of what would clearly become the Banora brand logo, which was presumably made about a decade prior to the Nibelheim Incident, not long after Genesis figured out how to make Banora White juice shelf stable, not long before he left for Midgar to enlist.

Having all the proof of every good thing Genesis has ever done shoved into a tunnel under his hometown, hidden from the public, while his family raked in huge amounts of wealth based on those achievements, indicates quite clearly that Genesis' parents were the exact opposite of good and loving.

But he buried them anyway, didn't he?

Genesis may not be a particularly good person, but he's never been evil, he's never been the bad guy. Genesis was right—more than that, he was justified. His methods were not. He did terrible things. He hurt and killed a lot of people.

But he was only ever the enemy because Shinra said he was. Genesis doesn't need a redemption arc because he already had one, and Minerva herself said he could serve the planet forever to prove it.

[maladaptivewriting]

since the tiktok ban, i've been seeing a lot of stuff where people blame americans for jegulus and i can't stop thinking about it. i don't know why people feel this way, but i am prepared to make an argument. so please allow me to make my case.

[also this is completely based on generalizations. i know americans that hate jegulus and love jily, and i know british people who hate jily and love jegulus]

so i've never been a jily girl. even years before i found jegulus, i never cared about that ship. i straight up didn't even know that people wrote fics about them specifically. (i actually still don't know if people do write fics about only them because i would never seek out something like that).

originally, i'd thought it was just because i only cared about the golden trio characters and occasionally sirius and remus, but the more i got into the marauders era, the more i realized that james and lily together were the standouts, i just really didn't care for them.

it got to the point where i only read fics that referenced jily if they were extremely background to the story (which they almost always were bc there is just not that much to say about them) or preferably if both of them were already dead and it was just remus, sirius, and harry who remained.

shortly after i really started getting into the fandom and writing for jegulus, i spoke to someone who hated jegulus and loved jily, and i told them that i'd always felt like james and lily were on the road to divorce before they died. this person was SCANDALIZED. they could not understand why'd said that.

now granted, this person was in their early twenties and in my experience, if you haven't lived long enough to see a lot of your friends go through divorces, then the idea that james and lily might divorce may seem crazy.

however, and this is where the american thing really comes in, i realized after this conversation why i felt that there was no way that james and lily were going to make it and that was specifically because of growing up a conservative christian bible belt ass place.

do you know how many couples i knew in high school who started dating their senior year even though they seemingly had nothing in common, had sex one time and didn't use protection because sex education is extremely limited down there, got pregnant, and had to have shotgun wedding?

so. fucking. many.

do you know how many of them are still married?

only one.

so when i see jily, two characters who have nothing in common beyond being gryffindors, get together, have a kid, and get married (not necessarily in that order) all within like two years, i know that the odds are not in their favor. those two aren't staying together. don't play with me.

now i don't know how people feel about young marriages in other parts of the world, especially in the uk, but i've spoken to a lot of americans, especially ones from the south, and so many of them have had the exact same experiences with their peers. i just can't help but wonder if that lends itself to less people being interested in jily.

i have other arguments to this, like that jily is not as entertaining as almost every other ship that james or lily could be involved in and americans being partial to entertainment above all else, or the american (and christian) obsession with the concept of redemption and self sacrifice making regulus a more compelling character than one that lived and died good (lily and james), but this was the one i wanted to focus on today.

[aceandanxious22]

Serious question based on an observation:

Why do people like Amanda so much but not Gavin, despite both of them being purposely dislikeable characters?

Gavin is supposed to represent racism. I get that, but he isn't really shown to be an inherently terrible person outside of hating androids.

Amanda, from what I've gathered, is supposed to represent everything we hate about big corporations, and what our future could possibly look like if they continue to grow and become more powerful.

From all the fan art I see of her, they mostly just admire her as a black woman, which is perfectly fine imo. But I see so much praise towards her with no one really talking about what she represents. I just see "wow, beautiful black woman" which, again, is fine.

Gavin, on the other hand, gets tons of hate. I completely understand why. He's a white cop who's ugly side is brought out by androids. He obviously has some serious personal issues and directly represents oppression based on ignorance and intolerance. I understand why people are so quick to rag on him.

However, we're not given much about him beyond what we see on the surface. Hank could be looked at in the same light if we weren't given an opportunity to see directly into his life, allowing us to better understand him and, therefore, sympathize with him. Would people treat Hank the same as Gavin if his storyline was cut? Would Gavin be treated differently if he was given a storyline similar to Hank's?

The community has done a pretty good job at giving Gavin a "redemption arch" which makes him more personable and realistic. I've been observing both sides of why people love him (more specifically, the fandom's version of him) and why people hate him.

I personally think both sides are valid. However, I also believe a character can change over time if given an opportunity. We don't see that opportunity in the game so, naturally, people made one up. I think that's great. A character with potential being explored. But there's still an entire group of DBH fans that will go out of their way to harass people who do give Gavin a chance, and it doesn't seem fair. Most people who do like Gavin, like the fandom version of him. Very rarely do I see people praising his canon character. (Again, everything we see is very surface level.)

The argument I see the most is that he represents racism, which again, couldn't you say the same about Hank? There's no other argument (that I've personally seen) outside of that. But if you completely take away the android element of the game, that argument completely falls apart, because we don't see any other behaviors that suggests he's a flat out racist person. Then again, we don't see much. And that's the point I'm trying to make. We simply don't know enough about him to completely define his character or why he acts the way that he does. I'm not really trying to make an argument for or against him specifically, it's just something I've noticed in the fandom overall. We get entire back stories for characters based on little to no information, and everyone is divided. But when there's a defined character like Amanda, all that is ignored because she's a black character, it seems.

I'm not entirely sure where I'm going with this; I guess I'm just looking for another perspective maybe? To me, there seems to be racial undertones that I don't see many people talking about. I've seen some discussions on Markus arguing weather or not he's a hero or the bad guy. Or some racial implications that don't really make sense within the context of the game or character.

The point of the game is that it directly implies racial elements, no arguments there, but the way people seem to completely miss the point and twist it into something completely different is disappointing. It's part of the reason I'm even writing this. I don't mean to rant but there seems to be an imbalance of fans putting certain characters on a pedistool based on the wrong reasons, skin color being one of those reasons.

Of course, I could be looking into this way too hard, but the amount of Amanda fan art has me a little confused. Maybe I'm the one that's missing something lol. Either way, I'm just wondering what other people think. Sorry for the long post.

[xmelic]

sorry I died, This is your reward :[

shocking that this isn't actually undertale specifically related but, this is what I did beyond the few past weeks of being absent!!

thought that I do apologize for the disappearance of tumblr.../gen

due to this, it's because of school and I don't have time to really do much on here- I decided to post some artwork of my gratitude of staying here with my lil' minions still here by my side. here is the drawing that I have provided for u all <3

this image was inspired by @ksopaz because they did a version and I wanted to do with with my favorite shrimp trio instead :3

( sorry for the ping btw, Sopa :'] )

also, the original image + questions that you should read in case you wanna see it. (BELOW) VVV

(credits to the person who made this as well, love you for it giggles/p/pos)

questions you may or may not ask me but, will answer anyways !

what is this shrimp trio about? + that you may ask? yes! these three are the shrimp trio, they are based off with both regretevator and dandy's world! did you make them? + yes and no, I did make both the second in the middle and the third one to the right but not the first one because he belongs to the game dandy's world :3 what are their names? + from order to left and right, the first one is name shrimpo, second is Steinex, lastly the third one is also shrimpo too! why do two of them look similar? + the reason why two of them look similar with their looks it's because both shrimpo in this are from two different areas! Shrimpo is canonically the one of the left to be known as the original Shrimpo as for the last one... his AU is called "Dandy's Redempt AU"! this au contains different styled versions of the canon one and how they were redempt forming back to themselves after dandy's lost control making every toon twisted as for the main character who is known to be Astro, Shelly, and Vee to help the others and regaining themselves back to normal toons rather than being a twisted for a long period of time until they are completely safe. are you going to continue with the undertale fandom? + yes I will but, it would be a rare chance to see me draw something undertale related because I have been reaching out into different fandoms such as dandy's world, regretevator, pressure, friday night funkin', etc. Sorry if that's what you really found me to be an undertale artist and see undertale art but- that's how it's usually going to end. I will still draw skeletons and stuff but, I would need to try something new and for that fact I rarely do much about things on my own free hand anyways LOL. ew, why draw dandy's world tho? + as people heard with dandy's world going INSANE with what some of the creators did, I don't care what you put opinions on. I know they did bad things and I know that if I draw the characters I'd support their doings... NO, that's wrong. just because I draw them or play the game doesn't mean you need to throw opinions off at me saying that it's bad and you need to stop supporting them by doing that simple thing. It's not supporting them unless you give them money or pay their stuff like UCG's or even the things you can buy from there. I do state my opinion very clear and rather not start a argument over an opinion to be sent out online to get it lashed out from. it's stupid./gen/srs/lh

I really wish that people would not argue about a game that is from roblox, please calm down. /gen

[king-candybug-backup]

Hello! You may not remember me, but I’m the anon with NPD from a while ago that talked about really appreciating how you wrote KCB’s processing of the twins’ deaths. I’m back again because, well, I have a LOT to say about the new chapter…

I don’t think I’ve ever ugly-cried that hard reading a fic in my life. I actually had to take a break halfway through Vanny and KCB’s fight because I was crying so much that I couldn’t read, lol. You have no idea how much it means to me, not only that one of my favorite writers sees Turbo in the same light that I do, but also being able to read a piece of fanfiction that actually understands me. I’ve been an avid fic reader for a few years now, and I’ve never had this experience with a fanfiction before. I’ve not read a lot of fics that address NPD directly in the first place (I think I’ve come across maybe two before this one? I know there’s bound to be more, but that’s all I’ve found in the particular fandoms I’ve been in.) and even then, it was framed in a more “NPD = Evil Person” kind of light, which was a huge bummer for me. And then, for those fics that don’t address it directly but are about characters that have heavily implied NPD, the authors either completely strip away the qualities that come with having NPD, or frame it as something that can be “fixed” through “the power of redemption” or something. 🙄 It’s so frustrating. So, I’m beyond happy at how you managed to keep Turbo feeling like himself while also addressing the painful aspect of NPD that so many people don’t care enough about to acknowledge. Honestly, this topic was handled so well and respectfully that I was quite surprised to read how nervous you were about it in the chapter notes. Please rest assured that you’ve done an amazing job, and I think the fact that you were this worried about it in the first place just goes to show how much respect and care you put into addressing NPD at all. :-)

The relationship with Vanellope is also just… wow. AMAZINGLY done! I love how, even though they don’t really understand each other, Vanellope has been picking up on things that bother him and working towards making adjustments to make everything more comfortable to work through. Her putting a stop to the “pet” comments is probably the most obvious example, but the part of their developing friendship that I like the most is the way their teasing of each other has developed. One of my favorite parts about the fic as a whole has been the way Vanellope continuously reassures him that her teasing isn’t actually malicious. How, in the beginning, she could see the way that he could never tell if she was trying to insult him or not, and making sure to clarify that it’s all in good fun every step of the way. I love how it was carefully sprinkled throughout a bunch of the chapters, and how it showed King Candy slowly coming around to it. He can still be pretty mean with some of his remarks at times, sure, but it really feels like he’s grown a lot more comfortable and casual in the playful teasing aspect of things, and that growth is so satisfying to see! 

I also am so in love with how Vanellope, as good as her intentions may be, can easily fall into the trap of assuming we can just “choose” not to feel like this. It’s like the “Have you tried NOT being depressed?” meme, but instead it’s “Have you tried NOT having NPD?” Lol. I’ve definitely had moments of major frustration in how even other neurodivergent people sometimes act like my disorder is something I could just “turn off”, even though they of all people should know that’s not how it works. (On the topics of choice, though, I also really appreciate that she acknowledges the terrible things he did can’t be excused by the way his brain works, and he has to take accountability for the things he chose to do. That whole scene struck the perfect balance of her being sympathetic to the feelings he can’t control, but also mindful enough to know there was a level of personal choice involved that can’t be blamed on the NPD.)

Lastly, one more thing I’d like to say is how much I adore your commentary on Felix’s interpretation of the Roadblasters event. That’s something that’s always bothered me as well, and the “unreliable narrator” comment is something I think fits perfectly to the situation. How in the absolute hell am I supposed to take Felix’s word for it, all things considered? The way Vanellope describes the inconsistencies is pretty much on point. It can’t have been something as basic as “simple jealousy”. Turbo kamikaze’d another cabinet. That is not a fucking normal reaction. There had to have been far more to Turbo’s mental state than what we were told, and it frustrates me to my core how it was all completely swept over. Apologies for the massive rant, I’m just so thrilled that this fic exists and I desperately want you to know how much it means to me! I see a lot of my own struggles in the way you write KCB, and I’m tearing up again just thinking about it. It has always been one of my top favorites from the WIR fandom since chapter 3, but after this chapter, Kill Switch has just skyrocketed to becoming my top favorite fanfiction of all time, and it’s not even close. In a world that can be so uncaring towards people like me, you made me feel seen and understood, and I can’t thank you enough for that. 💕

I’M SORRY FOR MAKING YOU CRY, BUT IF IT MAKES YOU FEEL ANY BETTER, THIS ASK JUST MADE ME CRY TOO, SO LET’S CALL IT EVEN 😭😭😭😭💖💖💖💖💖💖

ABSOLUTELY NO WORRIES ABOUT THE LENGTHY ASK, LIKE SERIOUSLY TRUST ME I LOVE LONG ASKS A LOT, ALSO BE WARNED I AM GOING TO DO A LOT OF RAMBLING IN RESPONSE BECAUSE I HAVE SOOOOOOO MANY THOUGHTS ON THIS YOU HAVE NO IDEA SFGJDHVJB (ALSO OMFG SERIOUSLY THANK YOU SO MUCH, IT MAKES ME BEYOND HAPPY THAT SOME SILLY IMPULSE FIC OF MINE COULD MEAN THAT MUCH TO SOMEBODY 😭 LIKE I’M ABOUT TO EXPLODE OVER HERE, AAAUUUGGGHH) ALSO YOUR ASK MADE ME DRAW A DUMB THING LMFAO:

Vanellope’s progression of how she sees KCB in this fic be like-

Bro is on the fast-track to becoming a statistic at this point 😭

That being said bro has hit MULTIPLE rock-bottoms and yet keeps cockroaching his way back up the food chain SO LIKE WHO REALLY KNOWS LMAOO

I’ve already talked a few peoples’ ears off about aspects of this (Y’ALL KNOW WHO YOU ARE LMAO), but I AM ABOUT TO DO IT AGAIN BECAUSE OH MY GODDDD. SO MANY THINGS TO SAY. (Also some of my rambling here is just gonna be elaborating on crud I already mentioned in chapter notes BUT WHATEVER, I'MA RAMBLE ANYWAY-)

Yeahhh, tbh, my biggest concern was about, like, writing about it as somebody who doesn’t actually have it myself, but also I was nervous about the whole stereotypical “give the villain NPD” thing because it’s, like, always villains that are getting headcanoned with it, lol? And I know that in and of itself can be iffy. 😭 I just wanted to be super duper clear that I wasn’t trying to frame it as, like what you said, a whole “NPD = Evil Person” kind of thing, like I was struggling to know if my intentions were coming off right sgfdhcgvhbj BUT IT SEEMS LIKE IT IS COMING OFF WELL, SO AAAAAAAAA I’M SO RELIEVED LOL. Like, I cannot believe that we are in the year 2025 and people STILL think it’s okay to de-humanize an entire group of people for disorders they have zero choice in having. Holy shit, people. (Hell, even just, like, a week ago I saw a post from someone with diagnosed NPD talking about how they were trying to have a healthy relationship with their sister and keep her needs in mind regarding a wedding situation and stuff, and a bunch of the comments were like “YOU CAN’T ACTUALLY HAVE NPD BECAUSE PEOPLE WITH NPD DON’T CARE AT ALL ABOUT THIS KIND OF STUFF, SO YOU MUST NOT ACTUALLY HAVE NPD” and it made me want to bang my head against a f’ckin’ wall lmfao, NPD FOLKS ARE NOT SHALLOW STEREOTYPE CARDBOARD CUT-OUTS, PEOPLE. THEY ARE COMPLEX HUMAN BEINGS JUST LIKE ANYBODY ELSE. HOLY SHIT, LOL.)

THANK YOU SO MUCH ON THE VANELLOPE THING BTW, THAT WAS ONE OF THE SCENES I WAS MOST WORRIED ABOUT BECAUSE IMO IT FELT REALLY NOT-SUBTLE AND AWKWARDLY WRITTEN LMAO, BUT I FELT IT WAS MORE IMPORTANT TO CLARIFY THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN CHOICE AND LIKE, BRAIN CHEMISTRY I GUESS, SO IT WOULDN’T SOUND LIKE I WAS DOING SOMETHING LIKE, “You’re terrible BECAUSE you have NPD” THAT’S NOT THE MESSAGING I WANTED TO GET ACROSS SO I GOT KINDA ON-THE-NOSE ABOUT IT IN THAT PART HGFDCFGJVHBJ– All that being said, I am VERY happy that the overdirect nature of that scene didn’t ruin it HFDGFGJKGVFJH Vanellope is a SWEETHEART but I imagine she would certainly not be immune to making the assumption that people with Cluster B disorders can just “stop it but choose not to” ghhjffchgvjbk LIKE I DON’T THINK BRO IS ALL TOO THRILLED ABOUT HAVING HIS SELF-WORTH BE TOTALLY RELIANT ON COMPLETELY EXTERNAL FACTORS EITHER, VANNY (That being said, her ignorance is more easily excused due to her being literally 9, and even then, she’s still more compassionate and understanding than like 90% of the arcade LMAO *sobs*) 

AND FELIX, GOD, FELIX. Felix is a good dude, but we know from the movie that he’s extremely oblivious to other people’s suffering. While it was never clarified in canon exactly HOW well he knew Turbo before the Roadblasters incident, I’m of the opinion that it wouldn’t really have changed how he narrated the situation whether they had been close or not? Like, hell, he knew Ralph for 30 years, literally SAW RALPH GO TURBO, and STILL was all shocked Pikachu face when Ralph was like “Hey, people treated me like a criminal for my entire life” LIKE BRO??? FELIX, YOU WERE LITERALLY THERE, MY DUDE, WHY ARE YOU SURPRISED???????

Anyways, slight side tangent aside, that’s why I think that, no matter which way you spin Felix and Turbo’s past relationship, Felix was always going to end up being a bit of an unreliable narrator. He had NO WAY of knowing what was really going through Turbo’s head that pushed him to invade Roadblasters, and while his assessment of the situation was sort of correct in a VERY surface-level kind of way, to just portray it as “Lol Turbo got jealous and tried to take over the new game” is both EXTREMELY oversimplifying the situation and also making a lot of assumptions that he’d have no way to truly confirm without asking Turbo directly. Given everything we know about how devastating an unplugging is for game citizens, it’s pretty easy to guess that that’s one of the big motivators behind Turbo's actions, like, the possibility of his game being replaced by the shiny new one, leaving TurboTime at a pretty big risk of unplugging, not having the love of the players anymore... Felix framed it more like Turbo had one bad Tuesday and then went psycho rather than, like, the HUGE emotional/mental blow that it all would’ve been to Turbo. Like, Turbo 100% HAD TO HAVE KNOWN he was straight-up HEAVILY risking his life by pulling that stunt, like, even if he didn’t necessarily plan on Roadblasters getting unplugged, he still crashed into another car in a game that was not his own, and every character knows you DO NOT regenerate outside of your own game, like, BRO WASN’T JUST OUT FOR BLOOD, HE WAS FULL-ON THROWING HIS LIFE AWAY AT THAT POINT, HE WAS DESPAIRING HARD, I WILL DIE ON THIS HILL. IF THEY’RE GOING TO GIVE HIM CONCERNING TRAITS AND NOT ELABORATE ON IT THEN THEY’RE GOING TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH ME GETTING INTO THE NITTY GRITTIES OF THE DEPRESSING PARTS OF NPD AND INTERPRETING HIS ACTIONS FROM THAT LENS. NOBODY CAN STOP ME GHFSGDCJFHV  (Obviously NOT saying Turbo was in the right AT ALL, he was 100% OBVIOUSLY in the wrong and straight-up got people killed with no remorse lmao, I just think people also kind of completely stopped thinking of Turbo as a person after that and instead this “thing”, COMPLETELY “other”ing him from everybody else. While Turbo’s actions were beyond extreme, it’s also not totally impossible to see where his thought process was at the time, especially considering the overall culture of the arcade. (I do think Felix’s use of the term “take over” in the script was more meant as a hint or foreshadowing to his becoming of King Candy, but like, yeah, point is, we learn about all of that through Felix’s interpretation of events, not Turbo’s, and we all know how unreliable Felix can be at reading people who are in unfortunate circumstances FGHDGFGJVFGH (Not bashing Felix at all though, that’s honestly the biggest thing I like about him as a character, he’s clearly very well-intentioned and wants everybody to get along, but they allow him to be flawed in the way of being a little ignorant of other people’s feelings (at first, anyway) and I LOVE THAT A LOT FROM A WRITING STANDPOINT, IT WORKS SUPER WELL)

As a side thing, I think it’s important to note that there is ABSOLUTELY no way I’m the first person to write him from this kind of perspective, I’ve seen good analysis posts about him having NPD too, so I’m sure there’s gotta be more fan works that approach him from this angle, I just haven’t personally seen a lot of what’s out there since I’m so late to the fandom, rip. 😭 (That’s not to say I don’t appreciate the compliments because I VERY MUCH DO, YOUR ASK HAS MADE MY ENTIRE MONTH TBH, I just also don’t wanna come across like, presenting my take on it as wholly unique or anything like that, because I know for sure it is not lmao) ALSO YOU SHOULD CHECK OUT @orbofrommyshows AND @badbugbotblood's FICS BECAUSE THEY VIEW TURBO PSYCHOLOGICALLY IN A LOT OF THE SAME WAYS THAT I DO SO YOU'LL PROBABLY LIKE THOSE ONES GHFDCFVHJN

Also I need to give a huge huge HUUUGE thanks to @saltnpepperbunny helping me better understand things about stuff like the “narc high” and the “narc crash” and some other things, I had been initially struggling a lot with these kinds of scenes in regards to writing the emotions of King Candy because of how hard it is to find actually good sources that elaborate on NPD behaviours in meaningful ways, so they were a MASSIVE help by phrasing things in a way that clicked a lot easier for my brain to understand, it really really helped me with stuff like this chapter in particular, better phrasing some of the future scenes yet to come, as well as going back to rephrase some of the older scenes that I wasn’t super happy with (still have a lot that are a bit on the "meh" side, but oh well, they can’t all be winners lol), so like, HUGE MASSIVE PROPS TO THEM! They also have their own fanfic about a character with NPD called Beacon, it’s for a different fandom but like, THEY’RE SUCH A GOOD WRITER I FEEL LIKE IT DOESN’T EVEN MATTER IF YOU’RE IN THAT FANDOM OR NOT, like trust me, this author is BASED AF and if you’re wanting to find another story that won’t demonize NPD, I can ASSURE you that this one is going to knock your socks off, definitely worth checking out!!! :D (I know I’m talking it up a lot when there’s only like one chapter out, but the reason I’m so confident is because they tackle A LOT of stigmatized disorders in their works overall (hence why I reached out to them in the first place in regards to NPD) and they always do a SPECTACULAR job, so like, yeah, very skilled writer!!! Highly HIGHLY recommend!!!!!!) If you like my writing you will DEFINITELY like SaltnPepper’s because it’s like on a WHOLE other level of quality fr, I don’t say this in a self-deprecating way or anything like that btw like I am VERY happy with Kill Switch and I know that lots of people are enjoying it so don’t take this as anything like me shitting on my own fic or something, what I mean is that this particular author is like. OBJECTIVELY skilled in a way that completely blows my mind lmao, like their writing style and storytelling skills are BEYOND impressive TRUST ME ON THIS OKAY- HI PEPPER SORRY FOR RANDOMLY GUSHING ABOUT YOU IN A COMPLETELY UNRELATED FANDOM I just needed anon to know about Beacon for the awesome NPD rep incoming, lol

I’d say the biggest thing about the whole scenario that’s kinda not portrayed well (imo) is like, the whole chapter comes off as pretty “on the nose”, like, the dialogue is a little unnatural at parts and I probably coulda been more subtle and organic with King Candy’s NPD-specific feelings leading up to this blow-up if I were better at, like… writing feelings, I guess??? Idk how to explain it 😂 I do still like how it turned out, I just wish I had the skill to have kinda built it all up a little more naturally. Plus there’s the whole “it usually takes many years of therapy for positive change to occur”, so I think my writing of him is a little bit on the unrealistic side in those ways, but obviously I can’t have the timeline drag on for years lmao, and I also wanted to be very clear about the kind of messaging I was trying to get across by coding him in this way, so I felt that was more important to make all that stuff as transparent as I could rather than prioritize 100% pacing accuracy lol (Like, the absolute LAST thing I want is for people to think I’m saying “He’s done all these bad things so CLEARLY he has NPD because people with NPD are horrible and that’s the only explanation for anybody who does these kind of bad things” LIKE THAT IS NOT WHAT I AM GOING FOR AT ALL, AS I HOPE PEOPLE CAN TELL LMAOOO, but yeah, as I kinda explained in the chapter notes already, some of Turbo’s behaviours and the Roadblasters incident in particular just had me feeling MANY sorts of ways, plus there being the added element of knowing someone irl with NPD and seeing all the bullshit they’ve had to put up with because of it, and I wanted to use all these feelings to write a story about the depression side of NPD, because I just. I couldn’t get it out of my head, dude. It was nagging the HELL out of me. Idk how to really describe it. But I’m so unbelievably happy that it’s paid off in the way of like, making you feel seen!!! 😭 That’s like one of the best outcomes I could have ever hoped for khjgfcfhjgvhkbjknhgvfgcgjhv *DYING SOBBING*)

[zvtara-was-never-canon]

My personal hot take about Azula and Zuko and bear in mind, this come from someone that is indifferent about the idea of Azula getting a redemption:

The only thing that makes Azula worse than Zuko, befero he changed sides and joined the Gaang, is that she was a bigger threat the heroes that he ever was, she got closer to beat then than Zuko or Zhao.

And even then, her biggest victory against then is arguably a shared sucess beetween her and Zuko, so if she is beyond redemption for that action,.by that logic Zuko is too.

I agree that her being a more sucessful/intimidating villain is why she's PERCEIVED by the fandom as being worse than Zuko, and that, yes, if you consider Azula irredemable, Zuko can only be described as the same because they ARE very simmilar characters... but I have to say, I DO think she's a worse person than Zuko, but merely as a result of her situation being different from his, not some virtue/flaw that one of them has and the other lacks.

Zuko is as stubborn and proud as Azula, but he's used to failure and to course-correcting. He's used to feeling like he messed up, and to enduring serious, harsh and even disproportionate consequences for making bad choices, even if he had good intentions. He's used to having to try over and over and over again, failing in a ton of humiliating, physically and emotionally exhausting ways until he FINALLY figures out what he needs to do different.

So when he's told "Your entire world view is bullshit, your nation's very history is a lie, your family is a disaster of proportions you cannot even begin to imagine, and you need to COMPLETELY change the way you treat people because you're the bad guy here, not the wronged hero" sure, he'll struggle to accept it because of a lifetime of indoctrination, but the seed of doubt will be planted in his head regardless because the universe has screwed him over in so many different ways already, would this really out of question?

But as the prodigy, the golden child, the one that has been seen as PERFECT, Azula very much suffers from the curse of being a gifted child. When she does something wrong, she's SURE it's actually everybody else that messed up, because, well, she never screwed up before. She'll keep doing the same thing the exact same way, despite always getting the same result, because she never had to change her worldview and behavior that drastically.

And even if she is, reluctantly, willing to try something new... how is she even supposed to start? How is she supposed to not be paralyzed by fear at having to stray from the tactics that had worked fine her entire life? How can she find the strength to swallow her pride and ask for help? WHO can she turn to for help after everything she did? How can she be sure that they won't dismiss her plea for help as insincere considering both her history of manipulation AND "perfection"? WHO would ever even assume that Azula of all people could genuinely not know what to do and need guidance?

Azula is "worse" than Zuko because she's stuck (both by her own doing and by circumstances completely outside of her control) in a truly terrible situation where she can't even truly look at the state she's in to figure out what she was supposed to have done differently.

That's why her breakdown is so shocking to the audience, even though we've always known she'd eventually lose something since she's the villain. But we expected her defeat to happen because the heroes out-smarted her or got some power boost. We didn't expect her to be crushed by the weight of the burden that is being the golden child, because we had been led to believe that was a privilege, not something that was eating her alive the entire time.

That's why Zuko NEEDS to be there to see it - this was almost HIS fate. And that's why it made perfect sense to me when Aaron Ehasz said he had been planting the seeds for Zuko to step up as Azula's Iroh figure if the show got a book 4 because WHO else could ever hope to understand Azula's position better than the guy that spent his entire life fighting for it, only to then realize, before it was too late, that it would bring doom instead of glory?

Like Zuko himself said, his banishment (although cruel and traumatizing) ended up being the best thing Ozai ever did for him - it saved him from becoming Azula.

[maxdibert]

The double standards of HP fandom is the highlight of my day. I love the hypocrisy of “the marauders have matured” as they say and make up horrible things about Sev. It's always “they were teenagers, all teenagers do shit”, but they also ignore that Severus was a teenager when he called Lily a Mudblood, he was also a teenager when he believed that the bad side was a lifeline in his existence. But they always throw him under the bus, shouting like idiots about how Severus is “racist”, “fascist” and “nazi”. Boys will always be boys, until the boy is Severus and they will act as if an outcast child is the root of the entire world's evil and that their favorites are peacekeepers just because they are on the “good” side of the coin, ignoring that his “punishers” are part of the reason Sev is who he has become.

I couldn’t agree more with this. The double standards are wild, and the mental gymnastics people do to justify their favorites while trashing Severus is honestly fascinating in the worst way. Like, “the Marauders have matured”? Please. Sirius is 30+ years old in Order of the Phoenix and still acting like he’s in high school, picking fights with Snape just because he can. That’s maturity? Meanwhile, Severus is held accountable forever for stuff he did as a literal teenager, in the middle of being bullied and isolated, and on top of that, having no real support system.

The “he was a Nazi” argument drives me insane. Severus grew up in a broken home, surrounded by poverty, abuse, and probably a ton of internalized self-loathing. He latched onto the Death Eaters as a desperate, misguided attempt to gain power and control in a world where he had none. Does that make his choices right? No, but it makes them understandable. But no, let’s keep pretending he was just an evil mastermind from birth while completely ignoring that James and Sirius literally assaulted him for fun. I guess we’re cool with bullies as long as they’re charming and good-looking?

And don’t even get me started on Dumbledore. Everyone acts like Dumbledore is some saint, but the man literally used Severus as a pawn for years, keeping him trapped in this cycle of guilt and redemption while letting everyone else treat him like garbage. But oh no, Snape said a slur when he was 15, so let’s act like he’s beyond redemption. Meanwhile, the Marauders and their crew, who are canonically responsible for attempted murder (hello, werewolf prank??), get a free pass because they’re “fun.”

It’s the hypocrisy for me. Severus has to be perfect, repentant, and saintly just to be considered “okay,” while others get to coast on their charm and charisma despite being cruel, reckless, or outright abusive. If you’re going to judge characters for their actions, at least hold them all to the same standard, or just admit you’re biased and move on. P.S. Unpopular opinion, but honestly, Severus calling Lily a “Mudblood” feels almost laughable compared to everything he was going through at the time. Maybe it’s because my friends and I (we’ve literally known each other since nursery school) are a codependent bunch with dynamics straight out of a dysfunctional family, but we’ve had fights, arguments, screamed at each other, thrown the nastiest things in each other’s faces, stopped talking for a while, and yet we always managed to work things out. I get that Lily had her reasons for cutting ties—it’s absolutely valid, and no one has the right to tell you when or how to set boundaries with someone you feel isn’t good for you anymore. But the fandom in general blows this way out of proportion. I mean, I personally find an attempted murder, like the one Sirius orchestrated, a lot worse, and yet people don’t give that even half the weight they give to this incident.

[m3nt4llyr4v3d]

Felix v Chloe

Lemme just say, I hate the way Felix is treated in the show and the fandom compared to Chloe

Somehow, someway, the characters can forgive Felix and even have him on the team at the end (?????), and all of his actions are completely absolved due to his backstory: “Oh he was just doing all that for his survival! He was just an awkward quirky guy with no social cues all along!”

But Chloe’s backstory even being brought up for an explanation is immediately shut down, it doesn’t excuse a single thing she’s done! Hell, it doesn’t even explain why she’s the way she is because Mylene has an absent mother and she turned out fine! Doesn’t matter that Mylene had a father that actually taught her how to act and didn’t just buy her love with constant gifts and abuses of power, there’s just no excuse!

Both act in their own self interest, turning to the villain to get something they want, but nonono, Felix, without apologizing once mind you, is redeemed and forgiven while Chloe gets sent off to NY with her mother! Everyone wins!

Not to mention Felix did arguably worse than Chloe

Felix was the one who actively made Hawkmoth more powerful by giving him the miraculous (not to mention giving HM the ring) while with Chloe, Hawkmoth got the miraculous on his own and she was just along for the ride basically. Then Felix came back and snapped away everyone. Chloe sent everyone away when she was akumatized as well, but at least we could see where they went and there wasn’t any confusion as to whether they got snapped to some pocket dimension or straight up disappeared. Oh, and she was akumatized by Gabriel who was literally manipulating her along with Tomoe and Lila at the time??

I feel like any arguments for Felix about worrying for his or Adrien’s safety, any excuses, should’ve been thrown out the window in the season 4 finale. After that point he had full control over himself and gave up Adrien’s free will, and he still came back to snap everyone away! Now, I would absolutely be fine with this (cept the Adrien part) I mean trauma with humans isn’t going to go away just like that even when there’s no immediate risk anymore (unless you get a girlfriend apparently). My issue with that is how this same sentiment isn’t given to Chloe whatsoever, her lash outs aren’t given any thought beyond “oh she’s evil for the sake of it”, ignoring how the trauma of her mother leaving her and treating her like garbage would still affect her, and it drives me up the wall

Not to mention the show actively tries to pretend that the adults surrounding Chloe’s life don’t have any influence on her whatsoever, even though they obviously do and Tomoe and Gabriel literally set her up as a scapegoat in this season. Somehow her father isn’t responsible whatsoever for the way she was raised, her mother leaving apparently didn’t even affect her behavior because we’re genuinely supposed to believe this teenager is just an evil person. Somehow the storyline of her being set up as a scapegoat by two grown ass adults is literally ignored by the narrative including some of the fans

Oh but Felix gets all the sympathy regardless of what he did

Right.

I wouldn’t hate Felix or his character direction so much if it wasn’t a direct slap to the face for Chloe, not to mention giving the Chloe stans fuel! I mean, it literally proved their point that Chloe deserved a redemption because full grown adults who’ve done worse and a guy who’s done nearly the same shit as her are forgiven and “redeemed”, ridiculous (I say that a lot huh)

[nukedimplosion]

Why I believe Spade King will be redeemed

The Spade King is a... controversial character to say the least. From what I've seen, opinions of him range from a complete monster to an abusive douche with little leeway.

So, making a post about how this villain will be redeemed in future chapters may seem like a slap in the face. Let it be known that none of this is to upset real survivors of abuse, but instead it is to highlight the many indicators I feel show that Spade King is not beyond redemption.

I personally have had this theory since around when chapter 2 came out, and time has only solidified it, but this is the first time I actually got the confidence to post it.

That being said, let's get into the evidence.

THE FOUNTAIN

In the 6th anniversary stream for Undertale, Fangamer played through an edited version of Deltarune with Toby Fox making comments about development, the characters etc.

When facing the Spade King, Fangamer talked about how they hoped Spade King had been a good dad 'before the other mouth grew in'.

Toby Fox then says this;

'I mean, I think that fountain definitely changed his behaviour. For sure.'

This quote is stated around the 3 hour mark of the livestream video below.

So what does this mean? You may want to argue that Toby was not be literal when he made this statement, and that the fountain was a simple temptation instead of something that directly effected his behaviour. But then there's the queen...

The queen seems to have also experienced this fountain brought phenomena despite only wanting to use it to serve the Lightners instead of oppose.

She threatens and attempts to kill the Lightners. She establishes a regime significantly more strict then the last. She won't stop going on about the Knight. These are all things the King does as well.

It seems that the fountain abstracts the behaviour of their respective rulers for the sake of the Knight.

Okay, so the fountain impacts the King's behaviour, great. Doesn't change the fact that he threatened his son, and refuses to apologise or acknowledge his wrong doing now the fountain is closed.

Well, that leads me onto the next part...

HIS SON

Let's immediately establish one thing; the Chaos King does care for his son. While how genuine that care is is debated by the fandom, I would like to make the case that he was a good dad and does want Lancer to be happy.

First of all is the quote about the fountain that Toby made in the anniversary stream, which was a reply to a comment about how Fangamer hoped that he was a good dad.

Replying then seems to indicate that the fountain did impact his ability to be a good father.

More importantly is his dialogue in jail.

Here, he asked directly if his son is happy, in hesitant, even reserved manner. This is in direct contrast to how he mocks the Lightners with his boisterous grin or cruel frown.

Remember when he was yelling that he'll 'KILL ALL OF YOU' while his subjects dragged him away? An insurrection led by his son, who he called a traitor? Despite this, he seems to hold no ill will towards his son or his fellow darkners (we'll get to that). This behaviour I believe was caused by the fountain, thus the attitude change.

And yes, I do acknowledge that he has lied for sympathy before (his act before Ralsei healed him in chapter 1), but this is different. There is no reason to lie at this point; there's no way they would believe him.

He also admits that if he HAD let his son go, Lancer would have just... bounced. He then calls his son a bouncy little pumpkin. This line is notably similar to a line right after Susie casts pacify on him, calling her a 'sweet little pumpkin', again hinting that he was a good dad before the fountain and his love towards Lancer isn't a lie.

'But' you may argue, 'Lancer was afraid! He knew his son was scared of him but kept threatening anyways!'

Which is a valid point, and is obviously horrible.

BUT combined with the fountain being an impact for his decisions, I think it is also a valid idea that there's more to it than 'The Spade King is abusive'.

Both the Queen and King are callous when it comes to the opinion and wellbeing of others. Queen spends the entirety of Chapter 2 attempting to force Noelle to do as she says, even threatening to kill her classmates (and crush) for the sake of her goal.

What King does is similar, making Lancer watch as his friends get killed because he didn't do as he said. It's cruel, yes, but this is another case where you can argue the fountain may have led to this mutual behaviour.

(You may argue that the Queen has the excuse of being a computer who isn't completely in tune with peoples emotions. This argument doesn't really make sense because she actively uses Noelle's emotions against her in a way that shows she understands how upset it makes her.)

I do believe that Spade King knew his son was upset and still went along with it. This post isn't some elongated argument for Spade King's sainthood.

But I do have to say, him being aware and still going along with it may explain why he's hesitant to talk about Lancer in his jail cell. He knows he messed up and is feeling guilty post-fountain, he's just too prideful to up and say it to the face of the enemy. What he did is not a show of Spade King's abusive inhernet nature but an example of the fountain clouding his full judgement at that moment.

Also, you may argue that Spade King was neglectful of his son, leaving him to Rouxls Kaard to be cared for. I do believe that there has been a bit of exaggeration on this point. Yes, he does put his son in the care of his employees perhaps more than he should, but he's also straight up a King. He's a busy guy.

'Oh, but he doesn't feed him, the poor boy is starving!'

Honestly, my big question is why he's cooking in the first place. He's a King, he has subjects literally fanning his son and he can't afford one chef? It seems like this is more a downtime thing he does with his son for the sake of family bonding (may explain where the food based nickname of 'sweet little pumpkin' came from) and he knows his son will be fed by his employees when he's busy.

Again, too dependent, but I don't see any signs of such an intense neglect to call him a bad dad.

Of course, this is more in the assumption category. It is possible the neglect is more active and that the King is just a douche, but I feel that we are being purposely mislead here.

Now, onto the final point.

HIS SUBJECTS

Let's talk about why Spade King did what he did.

Spade King hates Lightners, that much is obvious. He calls them scum, says that 'their existence goes against our own' and feels absolutely no guilt towards trying to kill them post-fountain.

Which isn't really not justified. Darkners were made to keep Lightners happy, only to be abandoned by them. The Chaos King has to watch as the kingdom, HIS kingdom, rotted without meaning. He had to raise his son with the understanding that he would never be 'truely happy' because the so called only source of happiness for Darkners left them to the wayside.

So, when the Knight came, is it really that surprising he would try to create a 'new purpose' as he said? Yes, perhaps world domination is a bit insane (maybe he's dramatic like that, maybe it was the fountain, he does hate Lightners so it's likely both) but the core of his ideals, that darkners can be something beyond what they are to Lightners is not only justified but correct.

In the scene where the gang are walking to the castle in Chapter 1, Lancer acknowledges how happy he is to be here, feeling like he's doing 'something important'. Ralsei replies that this is because he is serving the Lightners and that is the purpose of the Darkners.

Susie is notably uncomfortable, and dismisses Ralsei's point as 'weird purpose' talk and simply says that Lancer is just happy because he ate a weird berry. This is the first sign that the plot beat of Darkners only gaining happiness from Lightners is not just going to be an accepted status quo by the main cast and that there is likely to be more contention about the subject in the future.

(I would also like to mention that Ralsei in this scene asks if the Spade King is happy, in which Lancer very hesitantly says he's not sure.)

Then, in chapter 2, Ralsei is shown to be confused about friendship. He starts to understand that friendship is more than just being nice all the time and that he should be more 'Ralsei-like', meaning more like himself.

The problem is that he doesn't know what that is. He's spent all this time forming himself into the perfect companion but he doesn't know how to be himself. This is a result of his purpose, his wish to be the perfect Darkner for his friends. Now, his purpose seems more cloudy. Should he continue being the perfect little angel for his friends or should he become someone who is more genuine on their own terms, like what his friends seem to want?

While Ralsei is still doing everything he can for the Lighteners, he is slowly becoming his own individual, which is what the King wanted for all Darkners.

Then there's the general themes of control. Be it Kris, the secret bosses or the Spade King, all of these people wish to be more than the binds that control them. While the Spade King is acting on behalf of the Knight, he does so to free his people from the influence of the Lightners, to make purpose on their own terms and be their own people.

Just like how Kris wishes to be free from, you, the player, also making their own purpose and be their own person. May I remind you that the Darkners are media and toys, fun things meant to be enjoyed. They are in universe equivalents of video game characters, made to entertain Lightners, just like Kris, Ralsei and Susie are made to entertain us. The only difference is that the latter is closer to the forth wall.

So yes, while his world domination thing was wack, I believe the Spade King is righteous in his core values.

So why doesn't any other character seem to agree?

Ralsei completely believes that Darkners can only gain happiness from Lightners, Queen does everything she does for the sake of Lightners, hell, the town that the Darkners live in isn't named after the Prince or anything but you, a Lightner. They even call you boss!

At this point, the only character who cares for Darkners having a purpose outside of Lightners is locked in a jail cell.

Now, it is possible that Toby Fox introduces another character who has Spade King's beliefs but is less nasty about it, but that's lame. It's also possible that Ralsei has an epiphany and realise that Darkners deserve better and that becomes the result of his arc. Better, and I can see him going in that direction, but I still think it's less satisfactory.

In any route in which you don't get all recruits, the King is the only person who acknowledges this and is actively upset about it. Even the Queen is hesitant yet still ultimately okay with leaving her subjects behind because the Lightners are onboard.

The goofy cutscene where he asks for cashews? Gone. He simply remarks on how you left them behind like Lightners left the Card Kingdom darkners behind and tells you to 'Begone'. The first line is said with a smile, knowing that he's been proven right but after that, the smile leaves and he's just... cold. He seems genuinely upset about what happened to the Darkners you left behind, portrayed with a '...' in his second line and the loss of his smile. He is not trying to trick you, you simply disgust him at this point. He cares for Darkners in a way that no character has shown yet (aside from Nubert (the goat))

This is why the title of this post is why Spade King is GOING to be redeemed and not me saying he SHOULD be. The difference in levity between an interaction with the Spade King post full recruits and not full recruits indicates that by getting recruits, the King is more willing to acknowledge you and, perhaps with time, your points and intentions. If Spade King was supposed to be this abusive bastard, having characters such as the Queen be on positive terms with him seems strange. You can argue nuance all you want, but the Queen, a character who we're supposed to like, being friends with a character we're supposed to end up hating seems like a strange writing decision no matter how you slice it. Especially if he's a straight up child abuser.

(yes I know she might not know but are you really expecting an epic drama where Queen finds out he's an abusive scumbag and calls him out? Having a morally positive character be friends with an abuser can work but in this situation, it is objectively a weird choice and I will argue on that)

He asks for cashews in this chapter and suckles out a giant hamster water container. Maybe the second serves to make him look pathetic, but then the Queen apparently has the same thing but bigger. The cashew bit is played off as endearing more then anything.

This is all because you got those recruits. Without them, he doesn't even talk to you. Therefore, it can be concluded that Spade King does have a chance. After all, if all of him was completely against you and believed you would be bound to abandon them, he would not be talking to you in any route. It's only when you prove it directly that he stops.

Toby Fox uses the recruit dialogue to endear you to him, which I presume is to set up a redemption if you continue to go down the recruit everyone path. By proving him wrong in future chapters, I presume he will talk more about himself and his ideals and perhaps listen to the Fun Gang and his son in turn.

CONCLUSION

My prediction is that over the course of the chapters, players will see more and more endearing aspects of the Chaos King, with things such as his theoretical neglect and love for Lancer being properly clarified and elaborated on, but only if you keep all recruits. He will still be sceptical, perhaps even leading to him going against you when the Knight returns, but he will ultimately fight by your side if you have successfully convinced him through your treatment of the Darkners that Lightners aren't bad after all.

Hopefully by the ending point, Ralsei would have had enough of an extential crisis to hear the Spade King out on his whole 'Darkners deserve to be happy without the Lightners' deal. Susie would absolutely be on board with her friends finding happiness without needing Lightners (I can see her arguing with Ralsei about it in a future chapter).

I can see him sacrificing himself, but I don't want Lancer to deal with that.

The final point I would like to mention is his place in the narrative. A lot of people have argued that all he is meant to be in an objective evil to prove that Ralsei was wrong about fighting never being the answer and that a redemption would ruin that, and yes, that is his role is chapter 1.

But if that was his only purpose, bringing him back as the only person to actively acknowledge the consequences of your lack of recruits seems pointless. Giving him moments of endearment and clarifying he loves his son is unnecessary. You, again, can argue it's for the sake of nuance but I think at this point I have clarified that there is a lot more to it than that.

Besides, what would be more satisfying to see than the most stubborn character of your journey, the only one you could not convince in the chapter he appeared in, joining your side as a result of you sparing every darkner you can?

In a game with only one ending, making routes like full mercy seem worth it is kind of important if you want players to bother caring about those mechanics. The few dialogue changes we do get really don't cut it.

But witnessing the development of a character who you started off hating but then becomes your ally due to your decisions and comes to help you in your darkest hour?

That would be worth it.

---

Thanks for reading this theory! It's been a while since I've written a theory like that. Do say your opinions, I know this is a desisive topic but I am still happy to hear people's perspectives!

[mementoshay]

I read in a document saying that you are longer going to be involved with anything to do with Hazbin ever again, is that correct? If so, why?

Hello there, I will answer with my own experience.

Keep in mind, however, that the fact that a friend died in the name of this show is already reason enough for me to not want to hear about it again, if only to preserve my own sanity.

For now, the only one who still somewhat engages with the fandom is Eden. I think the reason is that she made many friends along the way in the years she took an active part in the fandom (all the way from before the pilot I think, so many years), and can't quite cut the cord yet.

I, on the other hand, came along after the pilot and belonged to the HuskerDust "side" because of the Instagrams. I'm gonna admit I loved their banter and seeing Angel flirt with him with Husk acting like he didn't care, when he actually did. I found it cute. And also the way Angel blushed in the pilot when Husk was introduced.

I did know about the Hunicasts and about the interactions between Ed Bosco and Michael Kovach (Alastor and Angel's old VAs) on stream, and I found them amusing although not as endearing as the Instagram interactions between Angel and Husk.

I was fully aware though that these streams were the ground upon which the pilot (and fandom) was built, and the "RadioDust" ship carried the whole thing for years before anything was even produced. If you even typed "Hazbin Hotel" or "Alastor" or "Angel Dust", they were the thing that would come up on Google first.

What I liked about it all, however, was the passion and "camaraderie" this whole thing came with. There was passion from the VAs, there was passion from the writers, there was passion from the fans themselves. The fan created so much content it's insane. Every single fan awaited the arrival of the show for so long it was absolutely wonderful to see every character move when the show was announced.

We all believed in this project, it was amazing.

Yet, fast forward to the winter of 2023, my "side" of the fandom became increasingly aggressive. They wrote callout posts, leading to ship and content wars. They expected and almost demanded that the ship would be canon, because of an endless list of clues they collected over the years. And when the ship was confirmed to be 'endgame' the self-entitlement went from 0 to 100 in the blink of an eye. It was beyond insane.

Seeing the way my "side" could as much as maul people on other "sides" (may it be RadioDust, ValDust, RadioHusk, NifftyHusk, you name it, as long as there's either Angel or Husk in the equation) already made me grimace a little. When all that happened, I was taken aback.

Then, Shay died. And with all the names involved in the fact (which I won't name) that I really looked up to and followed for years, I felt sick to my stomach. I unfollowed them all and took a break from everything.

All I was hoping for was a show about redemption, with fun shenanigans between a bunch of misfits... instead we got drama after drama, ship war fuel directly from up above, and a dead fan.

I still watched the show when it came out, but I felt utterly disappointed by it. Extremely poor pacing, terrible writing with bits and pieces completely useless to the plot, characters that no longer feel like what they were advertised as (e.g Husk, Alastor or Cherri Bomb) and an overall waste of precious minutes for such a short runtime. I felt a bit betrayed as well, given the amount of time we all waited since we saw these characters on screen.

But worst of it all, the passion that fueled the original plan was completely gone, as well as the camaraderie we lived with for so long. And a friend, who dedicated time, money and passion is now dead for this.

There is to say that every community is made out of people that should be taken individually. I can name plenty that would never ever wish what has occurred to Shay and that still belong to what was my "side" of the fandom. But I can also name plenty that to this day still shout death threats over different ships and opinions.

Things change, of course. For me, they didn't change for the better. And neither did for Shay.

So you'll understand if I don't wish to be involved not hear about Hazbin Hotel (or HuskerDust for that matter) again.

Thanks for your question!

- Liv

[ecoterrorist-katara]

Do you think that the gaang atla movie might make casual fans realize bryke are not the best writers? Like Everywhere they get praised but honestly if the writing in the movie is at the levels of the comics I could maybe see ppl turn on them a bit ( it also sucks bc I doubt katara and zuko will even interact in the movie)

Hi anon! I think people will almost certainly be disappointed in the new Avatar Studios movie, because nothing has even come close to the quality of ATLA after the original show ended. However, from what I’ve observed in the fandom, there’s always someone other than Bryke to blame. For example, when people rag on Korra, they blame Nickelodeon. When they rag on the comics, they blame Gene Yang (and incidentally I’ve actually seen a K/ataang shipper say that the reason the comics are so bad is because Gene Yang is a Zutara shipper — as if a grown ass professional would compromise his contract / reputation for a ship war). And when they rag on the first live action movie, they rag on M. Night. I’m not saying that Bryke are completely at fault for the shortcomings for these projects — collaborative creative pursuits are wonderful, magical things and it’s hard to know where credit and blame go when the whole point is that collaboration is beyond the sum of its parts — but the bottom line is that when certain fans are hellbent on not blaming Bryke, there are always other scapegoats.

I’m friends with many casual fans, and they were the ones who got me into the show. Honestly, I don’t think they even gave a second thought to Bryke until they left the Netflix production, which is convenient because now people can credit Bryke for the ingenuity of ATLA and blame Netflix for driving them away. I’m not sure casual fans will turn on Bryke for making a mediocre movie…BUT: if Zuko undergoes a character regression similar to his comics arc, people will probably get mad. Zuko’s redemption arc is widely considered one of the best on TV. You cannot find a Reddit thread about “best redemption arcs of all time” without Zuko being one of the top answers. From Bryke’s interviews, it kind of feels like they don’t really understand his appeal, and if they butcher his character in the absence of writers who got him more…well, I think people will be real mad about that. I mean, people got so mad about NATLA Katara, and she’s nowhere near as beloved as Zuko b/c misogyny and racism and many people found her annoying but that’s a whole other thing

And on a related note, I agree that Katara and Zuko will probably barely interact in the new movie, and it will seem kind of stilted and awkward. I remember an interview with Aaron Ehasz where he said that he’s not really a shipper and he doesn’t write stories with shipping in mind: what matters more is letting the narrative drive itself. That POV, undoubtedly shared by others in the writers’ room (including MVP Elizabeth Welch), is what was responsible for the development of the Katara - Zuko friendship in the original show in the first place. It’s very, very stifling to prioritize a ship war over the actual story. Antis claim Zutara shippers create convoluted fanfic plots where other characters and relationships are downplayed in favour of their ship, but that’s exactly what happens in the canon comics wrt K/ataang. I don’t know if it’ll seem so transparent to the casual viewer, but even if the motivations aren’t obvious, the decline in quality sure will be. For the sake of my love for all Gaang-related shenanigans I hope Bryke won’t go down that road for the new movie, but…well, they’ve done pettier things.

Thanks for your question anon, and please share any of your further thoughts!

[crypticpatterns]

I'm seeing Moash discourse and because I hate peace I'm going to chime in with my own two cents since I think everyone is wrong.

On one side you've got the Moash defenders who want to genuinely advocate for him or say he's misunderstood or shouldn't be held accountable for his actions because he's under the control of Odium or was a slave or a victim or whathaveyou, which I think is pretty short sighted and ignorant because regardless Moash still made the choices he did of his own volition and he did decide to be put under Odium's emotional control in the first place. I do think Moash is a sympathetic and complex figure because of his background and the way he's been made a victim, but it's wrong to erase his culpability or try to say he's right when he just absolutely is not.

On the other side you've got Moash haters who are also just wrong. Because even if Moash is a bad person, he's not actually a person, but a character written by a human being with political and moral views. And regardless of your opinion on Moash as a moral figure, its inarguable that he is written as a lower class person who is driven by hate and revenge to become a monster and he's villainized beyond the point of other characters who are more privileged than him but committed just as if not even more horrific actions. Moash is "problematic" if you will, because he's a caricature that paints all forms of revolutions of violent rebellion as especially evil and dangerous. He is an example of the kind of media that portrays the leftist revolutionaries who have a point as the villains because they kill people. His writing results from those same neoliberal politics.

And on the topic of redemption, I don't think Brandon is against Moash being redeemed or thinks he's "worse" than other characters like a lot of people have tried to claim based on those WOB about him not being interested and having farther to go than Dalinar. Brandon is simply saying that redemption is a choice and right now Moash isn't interested in that choice, so that journey is going to be a lot more difficult for him as things stand now.

I do think there are problems with the way Moash is written but I think people are identifying those problems and then trying to defend Moash in the wrong ways. Whether he was justified in his actions is completely irrelevant to the issue of how he was written to commit those actions in the first place. And that's where the problem actually lies. Moash's writing is problematic because it paints the victims of oppressive systems as "just as bad" as the oppressors and villainizes genuine revolution because it's "too dangerous."

As for my personal feelings toward Moash the character, I don't hate him like a lot of people seem to. I sympathize with him too strongly to hate him. I honestly mostly feel bad for him and find his particular character conflict incredibly compelling, especially in ROW after he's made the decision to imprison himself and is attempting to imprison Kaladin. I do find the hatred towards Moash from the fandom a bit concerning, especially when Stormlight is full of characters who have committed similar atrocities who are much more liked. People don't have the sympathy towards his circumstances that I think they should.

[irrealisms]

my dsmp fic recs masterpost

this one's long so i'm putting it under a cut! includes a lot of fandom favorites/ones you probably already know, but i tried to include some more niche ones as well. check the reblogs for more, i couldn't fit them all in one post without tumblr getting mad at me

Author recommendations (not my friends; go read everything they wrote):

Goldenrayofsunshine

shrugofgod

odaigahara

penink

hoorayy

Zannolin

the_g_m

chrysalizzm

Author recommendations (me and people I know):

sesquidpedalian @erstwhilesparrow

WheelCoveredInEyes @blocksgame

short_tandem_repeats

consumptive_sphinx @regicidal-optimism

monsterloot @aliveburs

cryptofhoney (korethekiller) @honeyblockm

nocturne_csharpm @qwilbur

75hearts (ME! YOU ARE HERE!)

Fangame recommendations:

Good Luck, Minutes Man! by @andhyssops : visual novel about NLM-era c!ranboo. has multiple endings, great art, soundtrack, characterization, etc.

Good Morning, Gogy by @andhyssops : visual novel about c!george. again, gorgeous art, great characterization. i almost don't want to say too much about this one because so much of it is a spoiler!

Doomsday Sim by @bwobgames : doomsday platformer, tommy is the player character, buggy but pretty.

Virtual Ghostbur by @bwobgames : ghostbur tamagotchi!

Character Pattern by @bwobgames : bullet hell with various mcyts (c and cc), tommy is the player character, stupid hard but very pretty

Tommygotchi by @bwobgames : tommy tamagotchi!

Silver Dollar by @honeyblockm : president schlatt is dead. murder mystery twine game

Fic recs (people I don't know well):

devil town by hoorayy : haven’t read this one but i’ve had it recommended too many times to not include. small town horror au. 100k

aftermath by sparxwrites : dream is recovering from the prison. tommy visits him. they have a conversation. neither torture apologist nor abuse apologist! 2k

what i love and what i've lost by Treis : dream & sapnap, dream recovery/redemption/post-prison. 20k

in memoriam by hoorayy : wilbur and sapnap have a conversation. 2k

little women by chrysalizzm : women on the dsmp character study. 1k

dissonance by shrugofgod : tubbo character study!!!!! one of the best tubbo fics imo. snowchester-era. 16k

six foot deep bottom line by shrugofgod : tubbo & q conversation, cookie outpost era. 2k

How to Sex Vol. 4-58 by Goldenrayofsunshine : epistolary fic, tommy pov, canon divergent from the disc finale (punz doesn’t arrive). probably my favorite fic in the fandom. 1k

Chicken Strategy by Goldenrayofsunshine : sam-centric, lots of q also, au where q set off the prison TNT. 20k

The Roman Archives by Goldenrayofsunshine : “Tubbo dies during the disc war finale and uses his time in purgatory to unlock all the secrets of the universe.” 4.5k

Make It Right by Goldenrayofsunshine : Captain Sparklez is tubbo’s dad, crashes the disc finale. my #1 clingyduo fluffy h/c Comfort Food. 2k

Raccooniverse (zombie crossover) series by Goldenrayofsunshine : crossover with the walking dead; doesn’t require any knowledge of the walking dead. tommy-centric, follows canon very approximately for the first two seasons and a bit beyond. 162k and still going, although you can just read the completed parts.

Neon Sunrise by Goldenrayofsunshine : wilbur & quackity, LN-era. 14k

draw up your sword (leave your days ashore) by Odaigahara : puffy joins the server by coming ashore at logstedshire, defends tommy. another comfort food fluffy h/c. 11k

snapshots by sparxwrites : schlatt/q relationship study. very good but mind the content warnings. 6k

the dead don’t dream by penink : what if dream killed tommy and then revived him again and then killed him and then revived him again— (crimeboys whump w a happy ending) 226k

Mafia AU by penink : mafia AU; based on Vibes rather than a specific time period but has Lots Content and Good Characterization. 219k and still going, although you can just read the completed parts.

Fairweather and Foxhole Friends by penink : manburg q & tubbo. 2k

Jubilee Line Satisfaction Survey by penink : wilbur centric, some crimeboys. wilbur in the afterlife! very very good. does fun things with the format--it's a uquiz, not an ao3 fic. another competitor for my favorite fanwork from this fandom.

call this world home by Sixteenthdays, stygiomedusa (grainjew) : another dream post-prison recovery/redemption; in this one, he’s metaphysically trapped in the arctic commune. 43k

l’esprit de l’escalier by eldritchIdeologist : revivebur oneshot. 3k

cause most of us are bitter over someone by honeyblock : niki & wilbur confrontation and reconciliation. (tommy’s there too.) 19k

orphan’s path (series) by aenor_llelo, Alderous, Anarchy-Schmanarchy (Murder_Schmurder), BattleBlaze, ConcoctionsFromHell, Falrisesi, fluxphage, izziel_galaxy, Otakuforlife19, Rocket999 : starts out as a phil&techno backstory. becomes a retelling of the entire server. massively multi-pov, very good characterization, very long. has many Takes i disagree with but also a lot of good stuff. get a text replacer “Lagos” -> “Dream”. 700K and still going, although you can just read the completed parts.

tune by small_lizard : karlnapity relationships study. 4k

applaud, my friends, the comedy is over! by small_lizard : oneshot focused on niki’s birthday party. <1k

it only gets much worse by hoorayy : another q & wilbur, LN-era. 2k

good reasons to freeze to death by hoorayy : tubbo-centric, post-s3 finale (mourning ranboo). 3k

pay it forward by comradeboyhalo : the l’sandburg fic. foolish centric; badlands post-egg healing arc in which they all move onto his house. very canon-typical tone; silly and crack-y but with genuine feeling. 5k

treatise on sin and vice by the_g_m : quackity and tommy and their relationship w religion (scriptfic). 7k

plate of primes by chrysalizzm : poem about tommy. <1k

hunger by Anonymous : probably the only E-rated fic i’m including. wilbur/quackity, LN-era, wilbur provokes quackity into hurting him by pretending to be dream, it’s . fic of all time. 11k

i'm not calling you a liar by Anonymous : jk i lied. also E-rated, wilbur/quackity, LN-era. by the same author as the previous rec, similarly dead dove. lives in my brain forever. 13k

the ckarl mpreg fic by the_g_m : karl doesn’t actually get pregnant in this one. they just want him to. karlnapity, script format, crack treated seriously. 2k

sink secluded by angeloncewas : niki and wilbur, pogtopia. <1k

best laid plans by zannolin : some gentle h/c for revivebur with ranboo and tommy. a bit of a comfort food but in a good way, at least for me. 5k

said the rabbit to the badger by zannolin : crimeboys talk about exile. inconsolable differences fixit. 3k

i can’t stand your taste in my mouth by orphan_account : a really intense but also very good pogtopia-era wilbur character/relationship study. 5k

where to find a silver lining (as the mercury keeps rising) by angelsdemonsducks : cwilbur eggpocalypse fic! 10k

the sea is rising by chrysalizzm : desolation avatar purpled. <1k but the series is longer

Blood Games by ghostdrinkssoda : q centric hurt-no-comfort that has some karlnapity but also engages with q as a bad person. 7k

where lies the strangling fruit by katsidhe : prison arc angst/whump. pretty heavy; mind the tags. sam & q & dream. 34k, unfinished

agatha by headlikeahole : wilbur's suicide note. collage/digital art. <1k

Tier X̅ by Pegasister60 : purpled's limbo is an empty bedwars map. 2k

one last lie for old times' sake by curseworm, VenetaPsi : wilbur tries to apologize to quackity before killing himself. quackity isn't having it. 18k

[laf-outloud]

//I'll never look at Jensen the same way, even if Jared has forgiven and moved on. //

This. 1000x this.

It’s not that I hate Jensen or anything. I was a Jensen leaning J2 fan. Dean is my favorite character.

He’s just not the person I thought he was.

It’s been 2 years since prequel gate, and Jensen has yet to show any actions that redeems him of his shitty behavior. More so it’s done the opposite. It’s like blinders were removed and I saw the real Jensen, and since then, he seems to double down on the narcissistic and ego-driven behavior. TW, RC, FBBC, the way he never stands for anything except how to gain a buck.

Whereas I always hope to see the old Jensen come back—the person of integrity, the caring and giving character. Fun loving spirit.

I remember Jensen once said the best advice he received was “it’s important to have morals and values, like integrity and strength of character. Because if you don’t stand for something, then you fall for anything.”

Where is that dude??! Where did that guy go?? It seems the greed and ego of running the supernatural legacy made him lose his way and his values. He doesn’t seem to stand for anything now and why he falls for anything.

He tells fans what they want to hear versus standing up for Dean as a character or what the storyline of supernatural is. Where he used to do that before. In the last 2 years it’s just been about seeing dollar signs from the fandom. It’s just about the money and getting his ego fed.

It’s not about whether Jared forgave him.

To me, he’s become a washout. Nothing really special about him anymore. He ruined his own image himself and he’s been unable to redeem what I thought was his moral sensibilities. I’ve come to the conclusion that it may be that’s he’s possibly incapable of redemption. Jensen probably is the greedy, lazy, selfish and arrogant person he is presenting himself to be.

I hate to burst your bubble, but I don't think the old Jensen was who people thought he was. Going as far back to the YANA debacle, he's shown that he's willing to do whatever he can for his own good. (I would even posit that his talk with Jared about quitting in S3 was also for his own good.) It's just that during the run of SPN, his own good aligned with Jared and the show.

i also think he benefited from being in Jared's orbit. Having a really good person around can elevate someone beyond who they normally are, like supporting OutYouth when Jared did, or 'caring' about mental health after Jared publicly shared what he was going through.

I would also say that Jensen hasn't shown his better traits since the end of SPN because they just don't exist, or if they did, it was only ever surface level. That's not to say I would write him off completely. I wouldn't do that with anyone, but like you, I have a hard time seeing beyond the narcissist he's currently portraying to the world.

[davekat-sucks]

I did enjoy the candy Jade stuff in the most recent update involving her, but the reason for that is due to there being some consequences for once in this story. It is lessened by the fact that, as you said, its extremely obvious that things will turn out fine in the end, but it was nice to feel something for a few moments other than utter boredom of going through the motions.

I also disagree with the spite thing, but less because I don't believe you, and more because imo they completely sucked with the spite. Like for a series that apparently revels in pissing off the audience, it sure is embarassing to me that three separate teams over different sequel properties all failed at making me feel the slightest bit angry. But you know, this and my belief that them ditching the epis would be a weak move (considering how much hs liked to discard and bury things before) is personal preference and me being weird.

I do agree with you that Calliope gets off way too easy. Alt Calliope less so, because despite being "one of the most power characters", its pretty obvious that she's an isolated friendless weirdo who is going to fail because nobody like or respects her. But both normal Calliope's weirdly get a lot of rope, despite doing a ton of weird shit not commented on.

But addressing the consequences was too little too late by the time Beyond Canon talks about this. Because in the early pages when it all went down, Kanaya seething and bottling up her emotions inside was not implied or shown. Most had assume that she was fine and that Rose, Kanaya, and Jade were in a 3 poly relationship. OT3 is still a thing in the fandom and that doesn't involve quadrants. It just affirms the worse that WhatPumpkin hated Rosemary and Jade's character assassination was needed to shield themselves from criticism. Don't you fucking say that everything Jade does was IN-CHARACTER. If it was Ult Dirk or Alt Calliope forcing Jade to do these horrible things ever since Epilogues, it's not been that obvious or even confirmed by the people behind it to say that Jade is not really herself in all of this bullshit. And yet that's how it is with James admitting it that Hussie and the rest, had made Epilogues and Homestuck 2/Beyond Canon out of spite. Hell, Epilogues was suppose to be just the Vriska Show. Even now with this recent update, it's all about Vriska's Redemption Arc #7 after already having gone through it from her ghost self in Act 6. I also see that trolling and spiting the audiences are two completely different things. At least for the trolling part in early acts, it was meant to be funny and it does cause impact within the narrative or story. But by Post Retcon, it is just necessary drama that is just as bad as early Act 6 with the Alpha Kids. The shit we have seen in Epilogues and HS2/Beyond Canon ain't trolling, it is pure spite and hatred. If it's just trolling, why isn't Hussie still around to fuck with us? Why leave? You can't seriously believe he was a victim just by reading his self ego boosting autobiography Psycholonials. So why can't the team play it even with this Calliope for her to get screwed over? Not just Alt Calliope? Because right now, she gets back with Roxy after Roxy divorced John. They are lesbians again and nothing is standing in their way. Same for the Roxy and Calliope in the Meat Timeline. Bitch has it easy compared to others.

[featherlumina]

8, 12 and 17 for the ask game 😁

Thank you so much @duttfisch! Apologies for the Genesis spam below, haha. XD

8. Common fandom opinion that everyone is wrong about.

GENESIS BEING INCLUDED IN THE NIBELHEIM INCIDENT. People treat this like some unholy retcon, the greatest narrative sin Square Enix could've committed via the Compilation. And I for one think that's a complete over-reaction.

Seriously. Sure, Sephiroth's definitely not in a good mental headspace by now, but having Genesis water the freshly planted seeds in Seph's mind in the reactor only serves to drive him further down in a really believable way. I always found it a little odd how quickly Seph seemed to spiral in the OG (admittedly Rebirth handled it better), so I think the addition of Genesis makes the scene more fleshed out and raises even more questions for Sephiroth to investigate in the manor.

And a fun one for good measure that's been disproven by Nomura himself - the fact that everyone is like 'hurr durr Genesis can't come back cause Gackt says no / Square won't pay for his likeness'. Admittedly less people are using this as a 'ew no Genesis is icky he can't come back' now, but it was SUPER annoying for like a decade up till this point.

12. The unpopular character that you actually like and why more people should like them.

Feel like I should be putting my clown makeup on at this point because yep, my answer's Genesis! Again! XD Between the rest of the awesome peeps / moots on Tumblr who've argued for why Gen actually is or has the potential to be really interesting, I think it's fairly obvious why, but I'll summarise my view.

Basically, Genesis suffered from poor writing. Between that and the intense LOVELESS quoting making up the majority of his dialogue, I can see why it frustrated people. But if you look beyond that you'll discover some really neat stuff:

Having Genesis (and by extension, Angeal) as prototypes to Sephiroth actually makes boatloads of sense scientifically. You can't expect ShinRa to pop out Sephiroth on the first try, can you?

Genesis can basically go toe-to-toe with Sephiroth for an extended period of time, which is just... insane, when you think about it. Cloud and Zack have both reached similar heights but Sephiroth is just on a whole other level, so the fact there are a select few who can last against him is just really neat.

Bro had his world shattered and understandably lashed out at the company that shaped and controlled his entire existence. We're on Zack's side for Crisis Core, but it's pretty clear the real world-destroyers are ShinRa, and I think Crisis Core could've done a better job at helping us see Gen's perspective a bit more.

His aesthetic is just gorgeous, let's be honest here. That red coat is iconic and I want it. Superb character design (bless you Gackt for choosing red over black or white.)

Canonically he was well-liked and respected by the majority of SOLDIER, given that he convinced so many SOLDIERs to leave with him. People don't just follow you to the ends of the earth willy-nilly. Also, despite being an 'introvert' and averse to large people groups, he displayed kindness and gentleness with his younger comrades. Gillian called him 'such a good boy' for a reason, damn it!

...and I probably have more, but my hands are tired. XD

17. There should be more of this type of fic/art.

Honestly, I'm a sucker for hurt/injured/degrading Genesis and him both going through trauma and then being comforted and cared for by his loved ones. It's a major part of why I started Thing With Feathers after all. XD

I also love seeing how people explore Genesis' relationship with his changing body/his wing. I could read stuff about that for days.

Also would love to see more written redemption arcs for Genesis, whether it's through 'what-if' AUs or post DoC.

Lastly, I'm not hugely into overly sexual stuff, so any of the above fics without anything explicit is just *chef's kiss*. Of course I understand that many folks love the spicy stuff on its own or mixed into a plot, and that's okay! Just not my cup of tea is all.