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alexandraisyes · 1 year ago

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Eclipse Character Analysis (Sun and Moon Show)

Alternate Title: Why I'm 95% sure Eclipse is a sociopath EDITED TITLE: An Analysis of how Eclipse's ASPD is reflected in his character

A hopefully unnecessary disclaimer: - One, hi, hello I am a sociopath, I do know what I'm talking about. This also means that a lot of what I notice and will describe about Eclipse are similar or the same as my own experiences living life in this mortal realm. What I will touch on in the "redemption" section is heavily based on the kind of intensive treatment I had to get in order to improve my behavior when I was younger, so it's important to note that while Eclipse will never be able to change his personality (like how I can't change mine, and you can't change yours), he can change his thought patterns, mentality, and behavior. The saying that "sociopaths can't change" is specifically talking about how we can't change our personality, which is true for everyone. That doesn't mean we can't learn to function better in civilized society or be taught emotional awareness and morals. - Two, hi, hello this is just what I've noticed and does not mean it's canon unless Reed or Davis themselves come onto my Tumblr and go "Yes, this, this is what is correct", and even then, you're allowed to have your own opinions and views on these characters. I'm just theorizing here EDIT: Reed and Davis confirmed that Eclipse is indeed a sociopath a day after I posted this here, and a week after my initial post in their server that is basically this but slightly messier. - Three, hi, hello I'm also a psychology student so I also know what I'm talking about in that regard too. I've been studying psychology and general medicine for three and a half years now, so I like to think I have some idea of what I'm talking about - Four, I use the terms sociopath, ASPD, sociopathic disorder, and anti-social personality disorder interchangeably since they all describe the same personality disorder - Five, this analysis is long, I cover the basics, an in depth, some potential scenarios, a redemption arc possibility, and some other thoughts I have about him. - Six, I made this disclaimer to address any potential misunderstandings, or harmful stereotypes that I tend to be confronted with any time I talk about ASPD. Now onto the good stuff!

Too Long; Won't Read - Here's a Summary

Attachment and Pride: Eclipse initially cared about Lunar, and his reaction to Lunar leaving suggests a fragile pride. His inability to connect with others is evident in his strained relationships with KC and Bloodmoon.

Masking Emotions: Eclipse keeps his darker thoughts to himself at the beginning, and throughout the show as well. He masks both his emotions, and his intentions throughout the show, and is careful not to show when people have upset or offended him. This behavior stems from a learned experience that letting his guard down leads to resentment.

Manipulation and Brash Communication: Eclipse is straightforward and brash when expressing thoughts, feelings, or opinions. He employs manipulation when needed but is mostly disinterested in others.

Boredom and Stimulation: He seeks reactions from people, often causing chaos for entertainment. Boredom, especially when stuck as an AI, prompts him to instigate situations for amusement.

Lack of Empathy: He also appears to lack empathy, as evidenced by his inability to understand emotions and his focus on getting reactions rather than connecting with others.

Touch Aversion: Eclipse's lack of physical affection aligns with the common aversion to touch seen in individuals with ASPD.

Remorse and Growth: Eclipse shows remorse only in instances where he hurts Lunar in the beginning of the show, indicating a potential area for growth. A redemption arc could explore his struggles without completely erasing his apparent sociopathic nature.

Writer's note: A thoughtful portrayal of Eclipse's sociopathy, should my theory touch on the truth, if continued in a storyline, could provide an authentic exploration of mental health challenges and personal growth. Care should be taken to avoid stereotypes (DON'T USE GOOGLE FOR INFORMATION ABOUT THIS I BEG)

Putting Him Under a Microscope - Full Analysis

1. Attachment and Pride:

Eclipse's initial connection with Lunar suggests a potential attachment, a notable aspect in individuals with ASPD who can form (highly) selective bonds. However, Lunar's departure significantly impacts Eclipse's pride. This reaction aligns with the fragile self-esteem often observed in those with ASPD. The departure becomes a perceived personal betrayal, triggering Eclipse's defensive response.

In individuals with ASPD, relationships often serve specific purposes, and Eclipse's attachment to Lunar may have been driven by a combination of genuine connection but also very clearly the utility Lunar provided in fulfilling certain needs or desires. (Which was helping Eclipse get the star of course)

Moreover, Eclipse's struggle with connecting to others, evident in strained relationships with KC and Bloodmoon, is a characteristic of ASPD. Individuals with this disorder often face challenges in forming and maintaining meaningful relationships due to their limited capacity for empathy and understanding of emotional nuances.

2. Masking Emotions:

Eclipse's tendency to keep darker thoughts to himself reflects a common coping mechanism associated with ASPD. Individuals with this disorder often learn to conceal their true emotions early on due to negative experiences when expressing genuine feelings. This learned behavior serves as a protective measure against potential backlash or social rejection.

The fear of vulnerability and subsequent consequences aligns with the interpersonal difficulties faced by those with ASPD. Eclipse's decision to hide his less socially acceptable thoughts is a strategic choice aimed at avoiding conflict and maintaining control over his image.

Professionally, the concealment of darker thoughts is recognized as a defense mechanism in individuals with ASPD. This protective facade, or 'mask,' becomes an integral part of their social interactions, allowing them to navigate social situations with greater ease. However, this constant need to mask one's true feelings can contribute to internal struggles and further isolate individuals with ASPD from genuine emotional connections.

One may ask, what 'darker thoughts' did Eclipse show, or receive backlash for? Well, let's see, when he was stuck in Sun for the beginning of his life, he was first confused, a bit scared, and completely disoriented. He was forgotten, and during the first parts we can see him trying to reconnect with Moon, however, his delivery, as individuals with ASPD tend to do, was brash. It didn't sugar coat what he wanted, and considering his earlier transgressions previously, they weren't taken well in the slightest. Instead of Moon trying to genuinely talk and explain, all he provided Eclipse with was "I changed, and you didn't." and in general was very annoyed and irate with Eclipse. There were several times during the beginning of Eclipse, where there could have been progress made with him, to help him work through his issues, his internalized fear of being forgotten again, and the accidental neglect, that just… didn't happen. Because Sun and Moon saw him as a virus.

Moon because Moon saw himself as a virus, so what else would he think of something that originated in his code, and acted like he used to? Acted like he still sometimes did, parts of himself that he didn't like about himself, living and breathing once again in the mind of his brother. Corrupting him.

And of course, Sun because he was just so tired and hurt and he finally thought he could have something only for this ball of code to make itself known? This peice of his brother that was left behind, that was formed from Moon's killcode? That was constructed from Moon's literal need to lash out, hurt others, and kill. I'm honestly a little horrified that this is never touched on in the show, because people aren't just born to be awful, that's not how this works. There were so many opportunities where toxic and awful behavior could have been stopped if it was handled properly.

Of course, I'm not blaming Sun and Moon. It's hard to help someone who doesn't understand they need help, and as a result the person won't want help either. Plus, they've said it themselves in the episodes where Lunar had returned from the dead. They were never programmed to understand mental health issues, and they have a hard enough time grasping the concepts of their own mental health issues to deal with other peoples. Especially other people who are actively hurting them, it's hard to feel sympathy for someone who causes you harm as far as I'm aware. (I personally wouldn't know)

But back to my main point, there absolutely were times in the beginning where Eclipse was just honest about his wants and desires, and was shown disgust and hatred for it. Which would absolutely make him be prone to masking, which he does a lot in the show from what I can tell.

3. Manipulation and Brash Communication:

Eclipse's communication style, characterized by being brash and straightforward, aligns with the speech patterns and tendencies often associated with ASPD. When he's not trying to pull a fast one over someone, he's very blunt, and he doesn't beat around the bush. Individuals with this disorder may utilize manipulation as a means to achieve personal goals or navigate social situations, but without a reason to sugar coat, they won't. Although sometimes not sugar coating is also employed as a manipulation tactic, which makes it tricky navigating conversation at times with sociopaths. Eclipse's lack of hesitation in employing manipulation reflects the calculated nature of his interactions, as we see him smoothly switch between fronts, acts he puts on to get people to agree with him.

His disinterest in others, apart from exploiting them for personal gain, is consistent with the self-serving behaviors commonly observed in sociopaths. The use of manipulation as a tool for control and amusement is a manifestation of the disorder's impact on interpersonal dynamics. When he contacts Moon for help with Killcode, even then he has his own motives that are only helped by Moon being distracted with Killcode, as well as having KC out of the picture.

Professionally, manipulation is recognized as a prominent feature of ASPD. Individuals with this disorder may lack the ability to form genuine emotional connections and, instead, view relationships as transactional opportunities. Eclipse's interactions, particularly with Sun and Moon, exemplify this transactional approach, where he derives amusement from creating chaos. This last bit (amusment) is important, and I'll cover it next.

Before I pop on over, this is where I'd like to touch on Servant Eclipse. He is very crafty, and very manipulative, but it doesn't fool Lunar, who he clearly cares about to some degree. (Again, will say it as many times as needed, people with ASPD can care about people, it's just a lot of effort at first, doesn't come naturally, and is reserved for a select few). Lunar in this reality probably knows Eclipse inside and out, and isn't fooled by the not very convincing "I'm just a husk now" act Eclipse is playing out with. I suspect that Eclipse also is aware the Lunar isn't fooled, but it amuses him to some degree to keep up the game. I can only imagine serving a "Lord Lunar" is a fairly excitable life, and it's unlikely he's extensively bored. He's also just as brash as the OG Eclipse, and doesn't sugar coat the truth, or tries to ease Gregory into topics.

4. Boredom and Stimulation:

Eclipse's constant quest for stimulation and amusement, even at the expense of creating chaos, reflects a key characteristic of individuals with ASPD. Boredom intolerance is common in this population, leading to a perpetual need for excitement and novel experiences. (Can speak from experience, I spend about 4-6 hours every day bored out of my freaking mind and it's absolutely torture - which is why I draw so much)

The portrayal of Eclipse as being "bored out of his mind" when stuck as an AI in KC's base underscores the challenge individuals with ASPD face in mundane or monotonous situations. The need for stimulation is a driving force behind their impulsive and sometimes risky behaviors. There's a certain kind of restlessness, and impulsivity associated with ASPD, very much an act before you think, get defensive when confronted, and maybe think about it two days later on the very small chance it triggers a sense of morals/remorse. (Then probably forget it happened, cause we are very good at not caring enough to remember half the stuff we do. This isn't a choice, by the way, people with sociopathic disorder just aren't wired to feel strong emotions like guilt and shame.)

Professionally, this behavior aligns with the clinical understanding of ASPD. Individuals with the disorder often engage in sensation-seeking activities to counteract feelings of boredom and emotional emptiness. Eclipse's enjoyment in hacking Moon's computer, causing reactions from Moon and Lunar, serves as an outlet for his need for stimulation and disruption, as well as fulfills other purposes in starting a conversation with Moon about KC.

And of course, now I get to touch on my two favorite things that just drill this in. When OG Eclipse gets the star… what does he do? He torments Sun and Moon instead of wiping everything away, and I'm aware this is mostly because he doens't have mastery over the star. But what does Sun say, when Eclipse shows up to torment them on top of the play structure. Something along the lines of, You're just bored at this point? Is that it?

And what does Eclipse do? He leaves. Because Sun is absolutely right, and it probably stings his ego to have someone he so fully has convinced himself of hating to be right about him. Even before he gets the star… just how much effort did he really put into getting the star? Sure, he had this big plan, but I think he was aware that the 'perfect world' would never make him happy to start with; he just felt the need to be something larger than life, so of course you must set the largest goals to achieve in order to be that. He could have gotten the star so much faster lets be honest. I fully believe he was just having too much fun messing with Sun and Moon, because it gave a reaction, and the reactions to his actions were exciting, breaking his boredom. He was bored a lot, stuck in Sun's head, stuck in Sun's body and pretending to be Sun, stuck as an AI, stuck with Solar Flare's AI fighting him, stuck being unable to use the star…….. seeing a pattern yet?

And of course, my second favorite thing. Lord Eclipse. Moon full out calls him out on how bored Eclipse is, and Eclipse first tries to deny it, then sees no tactical advantage to denying it, and admits that yeah, he is bored. He's been bored for ages and Moon is the first exciting thing in what feels like forever. He's not happy in his perfect world, but he isn't going to change is because that would cut his pride for Sun and Moon to be right about what he wants and needs after so many years. So many years of his Moon being dead. Of having Sun as an obedient servant, bound to his beck and call. He's bored, and it shows, and he knows that it shows.

5. Lack of Empathy:

Eclipse's consistent inability to understand and empathize with the emotions of others aligns with a central feature of Antisocial Personality Disorder (ASPD). Individuals with ASPD often struggle with recognizing and comprehending the feelings of those around them.

His focus on getting reactions rather than forming genuine connections reflects the hallmark trait of lacking empathy. Eclipse's interactions with Sun, Moon, and Lunar highlight his detached and indifferent approach, as he manipulates situations purely for personal amusement without regard for the emotional impact on others.

Professionally, the deficit in empathy is a well-documented aspect of ASPD. Those with the disorder may comprehend others' situations on a cognitive level but struggle to grasp the emotional nuances involved. Eclipse's inability to understand why Lunar is upset and his constant pursuit of reactions underscore the emotional disconnect inherent in individuals with ASPD.

Eclipse's interactions with Lunar provide a poignant illustration of his consistent lack of empathy. Despite a seemingly genuine attachment to Lunar in the beginning, Eclipse's emotional disconnect becomes evident as Lunar leaves. The impact of Lunar's departure on Eclipse's pride and subsequent defensive reaction highlights the absence of genuine understanding of Lunar's emotions. Eclipse struggles to comprehend the significance of Lunar's departure beyond a perceived personal betrayal, showcasing a lack of empathy toward Lunar's perspective.

Moreover, Eclipse's manipulation and attempts to provoke reactions from Lunar, even after Lunar has left, underscore his disregard for the emotional toll on Lunar. This behavior aligns with the typical patterns seen in individuals with ASPD, where the pursuit of personal amusement takes precedence over the emotional well-being of others.

Eclipse's inability to process and acknowledge his own damaged ego resulting from Lunar's departure further emphasizes his lack of emothional understanding. He doesn't want to admit that Lunar hurt him, so instead he just continues to shut it down, bottle it up, and let it churn into hatred instead of looking at what he did wrong. His resentment and refusal to acknowledge the emotional impact on Lunar highlight the emotional blindness inherent in individuals with ASPD, especially in the context of complex interpersonal relationships.

6. Touch Aversion:

Eclipse's noticeable lack of physical affection, as both seen throughout the show, and mentioned when Lunar clings to Sun and states that Eclipse never showed him physical affection, aligns with a common trait among individuals with ASPD. Touch aversion is a characteristic feature, as those with the disorder often lack the intrinsic desire for physical closeness or intimacy.

Eclipse's minimal physical interaction, even in what could be perceived as emotionally charged moments, is consistent with the general pattern observed in individuals with ASPD. The absence of hugging or comforting gestures suggests a limited appreciation for the emotional needs of others.

Professionally, touch aversion is recognized as part of the interpersonal challenges associated with ASPD. Individuals with this disorder may not instinctively seek physical connection unless it serves a specific purpose, such as manipulation or personal gain. Eclipse's avoidance of physical affection adds a layer to his character, illustrating how his interpersonal behaviors align with the clinical understanding of ASPD.

This aspect of Eclipse's character contributes to a nuanced portrayal of the disorder, showcasing how the lack of tactile expression can impact the dynamics of his relationships, particularly in situations where emotional support is expected. (Like seriously, even Sun and Moon hug when one of them are having an awful day, but Eclipse? He literally doesn't seem to understand why Lunar craves positive physical touch so bad, because he just… doesn't feel the need himself. You can never fully understand something you experience, and it's not like people were explaining these basic needs and wants to Eclipse… ever.)

7. Remorse and Growth:

Eclipse's occasional display of remorse, particularly in instances where he has harmed Lunar, offers a glimpse into a facet of his character that deviates from the (BAD DOWNRIGHT AWFUL) stereotypical image associated with ASPD. While individuals with ASPD are often poorly and harmfully characterized/stereotyped by a complete lack of guilt or remorse, Eclipse's moments of internal conflict suggest a degree of emotional complexity.

Professionally, the intermittent remorse aligns with the recognition that individuals with ASPD may experience moments of internal conflict, especially in relationships that hold personal significance. Eclipse's struggle with whether to apologize after hitting Lunar reveals a brief internal debate, questioning the severity of his actions against Lunar's emotional response.

However, Eclipse's ultimate decision not to apologize, driven by his failure to perceive the significance of Lunar's distress, reinforces the inherent challenges in navigating emotional landscapes for those with ASPD. This internal conflict and eventual dismissal of remorse contribute to a more realistic portrayal of the disorder, highlighting the ongoing tension between impulsive actions and moments of potential introspection.

Should Eclipse undergo a redemption arc, these moments of internal conflict could serve as a foundation for growth, illustrating that while individuals with ASPD may grapple with moments of remorse, their ability to sustain lasting change remains a complex and challenging journey. Of course, I'm going to cover this as well.

Redemption and Recovery

Eclipse's potential redemption could be approached with an understanding that a complete overhaul of his personality is near impossible, because as psychology has shown, you don't just change your personality. However, nuanced growth and positive change within the framework of his behaviors and thought patterns can be explored.

Increased Self-Awareness: Eclipse could undergo a process of heightened self-awareness, acknowledging the impact of his actions on others. This could involve introspection into the motivations behind his behaviors and the consequences they entail. This won't be something he does on his own, he's going to need someone behind him, pushing him to be better. Preferably someone who has no majorly poor history with him for the best results.

Therapeutic Support: In a realistic redemption arc, Eclipse might engage in therapy tailored to individuals with ASPD. This could involve developing coping mechanisms, enhancing emotional intelligence, and learning healthier ways to navigate interpersonal relationships. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) is a very affective type of therapy for people with personality disorders, or collections of disorders that combined provide the complications of a personality disorder.

Recognizing the Value of Relationships: Eclipse could gradually come to recognize the value of genuine connections beyond their utility. This may involve acknowledging the significance of relationships for emotional support and personal growth. This is going to be a process, and he will mess up. He will forget. It's something he will have to choose to work with in order for it to work, and even then he will make mistakes. It will be important to have patience with him, and instead of lashing out (cause that can cause a spiral back into poor behavior), working on these slip ups with him, and helping him relearn the significance of correcting it when he messes up.

Empathy Development: A full restoration of empathy is be unrealistic, Eclipse could work on developing cognitive empathy—understanding others' perspectives intellectually, even if not emotionally. This could improve his ability to navigate social situations more effectively. (This is what I do! <:happy_stim:867544047735275521>)

Establishing Boundaries: He should learn to set healthy boundaries in his relationships, understanding that manipulating and exploiting others for personal gain may provide short-term satisfaction but is detrimental in the long run.

Contributing Positively: As part of his redemption, he could find avenues to contribute positively to others' lives. This could involve utilizing his unique skills for constructive purposes, fostering a sense of accomplishment outside of manipulative endeavors.

Maintaining Accountability: Eclipse's growth would involve a commitment to being accountable for his actions. This includes acknowledging mistakes, making amends where possible, and actively working towards minimizing harm to others.

Embracing Personal Growth: Eclipse's redemption arc could focus on embracing personal growth within the constraints of his personality. It's about acknowledging that while he may not fundamentally change, he can adapt and evolve to lead a more balanced and fulfilling life.

Potential Future Scenario: Eclipse Apologizes

Brought to you by someone saying that Lunar would refuse Eclipse trying to apologize, but I respectfully disagree, and here's why.

I think that if Eclipse ever does apologize to Lunar, Lunar would have literally no choice but to accept, because we’ve seen early on that he does not apologize

To genuinely apologize and acknowledge his wrongdoing would be major character development that would take a lot of time and struggle to get to that point, based on my theories/analysis about him

So by the time he can actually, truthfully apologize, there would be evidence to prove his struggle with his own twisted nature, and probably how he failed at times during the journey, and had set backs and road bumps. The others would have most likely seen the effects and effort it takes to learn to change for him, and would most likely acknowledge that he’s being truthful.

If Lunar doesn’t accept at that point, if it ever got to that point, Lunar would be acting irrationally due to emotional complications, would probably just hurt Eclipse when he’s trying to be better for his brother, and would most likely set him back. There’s a very destructive pattern of thought when it comes to personality stuff (which is what I think Eclipse struggles with, a specific personality disorder I’m writing a comic thingy about), because you can’t change your personality. You can’t will yourself to be a certain way, and so it’s very easy to destroy progress people make on self improvement. So lunar refusing the apology would most likely not only hurt Eclipse’s pride (like it was hurt when Lunar left his side the first time) but would also further his belief of “why bother if they won’t accept the fact I’m trying for them” that he’d probably struggle with throughout a period of character growth.

Lunar’s smart, and pretty emotionally aware. He can be petty, but if Eclipse were to get to that point, I don’t think Lunar would refuse it because he would have already seen the struggle and effort Eclipse had put through just to get to that point

Logically, Solar would be the best person to help Eclipse, not Earth

This is partly copied/pasted from some conversations and does analyze Solar a bit as well

I really honestly doubt that Earth is going to be able to help him, if he comes back, and I’m suspecting that Solar would do a better job because he’s the only who can understand, properly, the absolute hell that was waking up inside of Sun’s mind with no idea what’s going on and how he got there. Earth can be sympathetic and show him pity, but that’s not going to help him very much at the end of the day. He doesn’t want sympathy, he doesn’t want pity because he has associated that with being weak and out of control. He needs some one who will understand him, and who will fully understand how one small thing changed so much due to the snow ball effect. Which Solar would understand. He’s “nice eclipse” after all, aka just an Eclipse without such bad formative trauma. So he never spiraled, but he’s just as blunt and analytical as Eclipse tends to be, and would be able to actually communicate with Eclipse about his issues since it’s a situation he could have easily been in had things gone slightly different

Solar is probably the only one who can understand, and I mean properly understand, Eclipse’s trauma and bottled up emotions. And I think that if they’re going to give Eclipse someone who will support him, they should do Solar. He’s got all boxes checked

The ability to fully understand Eclipse

No bad history with Eclipse that would really affect how Eclipse treats him (It’s not like Eclipse knows he built the satellite)

Similar base personality, his just wanted warped and twisted in the start, but if you strip away Eclipse’s issues, they’re practically the same person… for obvious reasons

The willingness to say what needs to be said, and not try to sugar coat. Earth would try to let Eclipse down easy about stuff, ease him into it, and he’s gonna see that as her being manipulative because that’s how he manipulates people. He needs someone who is just going to lay things out on the table

And of course, Solar most likely wouldn’t think Eclipse is too far gone to change. Because how do you think that of yourself? And they are the same person, just from different perspectives. It’s a similar dilemma I have to just writing off Eclipse, when I take him apart and see myself staring back at me. But I was able to improve, it just took work, and it took a situation dire enough to get me to realize that if I didn’t want to ruin the few things I cared about, I needed to get my crap together. And that’s probably what he’s gonna need to, something that threatens what he cares about to the point he realizes that this can’t go on. (And I’m suspecting that something will be control over his own life, just like it was for me.) We saw at the end of his life, that he was starting to self reflect and realize that he needs to change somehow, and this was because his control over his own life was being threatened I suspect.

Extra, Smaller Analysis on Solar and Eclipse

It is important to note that Solar doesn't have this issue (ASPD), and I believe it's because he didn't suffer the same beginning that Eclipse did. They resolved the Solar issue when he popped into existance very quickly from what we can tell, and so he wasn't left in the dark for months on end, left to stew in his own agony and emotions. Personality issues are caused by trauma, and specifically ASPD is directly tied to neglect during the most crucial formative stages in development. Sun and Moon had no idea Eclipse was there, and didn't mean to abandon him, because they didn't know he existed. But this complete, and utter abandoment, what is probably internalized as a personal betrayal because I can imagine Eclipse being destroyed by the idea that Moon left him behind on purpose. Which is just… not a good thought for my man to have, because that leads to feelings of worthlessness, and self-hatred for not being 'good enough' to keep/take care of/help. Which then just snowballs into other negative emotions, that gets him all worked up, and then he's fuming at the fact that they left him. That they decided he wasn't worth keeping around, and how dare they make that decision about him for him?!

You can see how it gets out of hand quickly, as he realizes the neglect he's suffering from, the abandonment he's facing, and the fact that he's now trapped. That Moon got to escape, but he can't and it's not fair. This is the perfect breeding ground for that funny little disorder called sociopathy, and boy, there's almost nothing at this point that can convince me that he doesn't have it because it's all just a little too perfect. And the worst part?

I really really doubt it was done on purpose, but holy heck it would be so cool if it was. Not just because of how beautifully crafted it is in his character, how it's so consistent and real, but also because if it was done on purpose, it would show that the writers took the time to do real research about a disorder that is so often done so poorly, and is commonly confused with a completely different issue (psychopathic disorder). Even knowing that it probably wasn't done on purpose, I'm still gonna just cling to him because I love him and I want him to get the happy ending he deserves. And I mean that genuinely, people who are suffering and lashing out because they're drowing in hate due to unfortunate circumstances that were really out of their control deserve to be given the tools to improve themselves and their lives, and it would be wonderful to see this sentiment reflected in the show.

Wrap-Up Ramble/Writer's Notes

This is, of course, my own personal observations, and it is definitely a lot to read. I had a lot of fun constructing this thread, because it is so rare to find a character that I feel I can properly connect to. I've struggled with a lot of the patterns Eclipse has shown in the show that I've called out, and I've had to go through the steps in the 'redemption arc' section myself. It's not an easy process, and as I mentioned, him realistically improving is going to be a process that is going to be draining on himself, and the people around him. He will have to wake up and choose to go against the walls he's thrown up around himself every single day if he's going to have a realistic redemption, and it's going to be exhausting. But I do genuinely believe that he can change, and improve, because I was able to change and improve as a person. It took time, years of intensive self examination and cognitive based therapy, and it required a strong support system. Which hopefully, if he comes back to the show, he can obtain, because otherwise he will continue to drown in his own bitter stew of resentment for others and himself. And that's no fun, that's just depressing.

A lot of people look at Eclipse and think the villain, but I just can't. His actions make him a bad person, but taking apart the psychology behind him, and seeing how glaringly similar a character is to you that is supposed to be the 'bad guy'… I want him to be able, if he comes back, to get the proper 'recovery arc' that he deserves, and I really hope that if they do try to save him from his own demons, they do it properly, instead of giving him a complete 180. Because you can't change your personality, and Davis and Reed seem to be aware of that with Moon. Even when old Moon tried to be better, he was still an awful person. And the 'new' Moon is still eerily similar to the old one, and as the time goes on, he just becomes more and more like the old one. Because it's the same AI, he just lost his memories. He didn't do a whole personality change because he got his memory card wiped, because he's the same person where it counts. He just has the benefit of not having all of the pain his past self was carrying. He's free of the hurt, and trauma, and self hatred old Moon carried, but he's still Moon.

So I'm really hoping that they continue to accurately display psychology in their characters if they bring Eclipse back, because it is such an immersive show due to the fact that it makes sense. These things make sense psychology wise, their behaviors, actions, patterns of thinking and speech. And I really am looking forward to seeing if they bring Eclipse back because he's such a beautifully constructed character.

You Made It

This is the end of my massive post. Congratulations if you made it this far. If you did, uh, the password is Dorito. Leave it in the comments/reblogs to let me know you made it, haha.

I'd love to see people's thoughts on this and on him, so feel free to leave your thoughts as well in comments/reblogs. I'll try to reply to every single one I see. Again, I love his character so much, it's so well crafted, and it was so fun to take this apart.

Edit: I have been asked about where to find the thread/join in on the convo, etc a few times: I have a thread in the SAMS server here if you want to join the conversation

#fnaf #fnaf au #sun and moon show #sunrise fnaf #moondrop #fnaf dca #daycare attendant au #earth and lunar show #eclipse sams #solar sams #lunar sams #character analysis #long post #sun and moon show theory #character theory

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blindmanbaldwin · 11 months ago

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Perhaps it was seeing it on a premium large format screen, perhaps it was my mood that day, or perhaps it is because I'm always drawn to the stories of people trapped inside of their contradictions — but I was impressed with "The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes" last year, especially with its cinematography and editing. I thought bits of the film, particularly the climax, had shots/rhythm evocative of the great Terrence Malick only to find the film's editor Mark Yoshikawa is a frequent collaborator of Malick.

Now I could talk at length about those comparisons, or the sense of gaze of the film (Tom Blyth's eyes are fascinating to track when he's in close-up/medium shot), or the relationship the wider series has with the medium of television. But I'd rather talk about the beginning of one scene near the beginning of the third-act as an example of effective pacing building dramatic tension and establishing character.

Start on this wide shot at a low-angle. "The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes" uses low-angle shots frequently, which makes sense in a story about insecurity about power/class gaps. Low or high angles means we see something at an unnatural eye-line — which creates a visual power imbalance.

In the background we have a man just barely peaking over the horizon. This is Coriolanus Snow, our boy from the Capitol who comes from a noble family that lost everything in the war. In the first chunks of the film, we learn that Snow wants to restore his family's former glory. He wants to get that power back. The power gap that we see.

But this isn't the Capitol. This is District 12. This is place he was sent because of his failure. He cheated at the titular Hunger Games to win them for his tribute. So what could he be looking for out here to help him with his desire?

POV shot now. Cutting from that low-angle wide to seeing through Snow's eyes. While it isn't the subject of this post, the POV shot is the most direct expression of gaze. Think about cinema's greatest voyeurist Alfred Hitchcock and all his iconic POV shots ("Vertigo"). Nothing gets inside of a character's head like literally showing what they see.

Snow moves toward something — a something we now know was the (relative) perspective of the first shot.

Or, rather, not a something. But a someone:

Now back on Snow. Only this time he isn't obscured in the background but near the center of the frame. The camera pushing in before to emulate his movement seen now in his movement. Going toward the someone seen in the previous shot. Someone we couldn't really see before — but now are getting closer to finding.

Close enough to see her guitar.

Of course, if we were listening we would already know that this is Lucy Gray Baird. For her voice echoes through the forest and calls to Snow. But we're sticking to the visual — where we see him pushing toward someone. Pushing toward her.

Baird was his tribute in the Hunger Games. Living (but not hailing from) District 12, she had the lowest odds to win the Games. But through her own determination and a little bit of a push from Snow, she succeeded in winning the Games.

More importantly — she succeeded in winning his heart, as he did to her.

Go back to earlier: the beginning of "The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes" establishes Snow's desire as reclaiming his family's lost power. Story is conflict, conflict is character, and character is desire. Think mathematically for a moment: Character is action that is a function of desire. But desire cannot remain static. Pull any book or movie off of a shelf at a library. What a character wants at a start will not be the same thing/only thing they want at the end.

Snow began wanting to reclaim his family's lost power. But through this desire — him cheating the games and getting exiled to District 12, the lowest and poorest district in all the land, runs contrary to this desire. He cannot get more power being among the powerless. Why would he act in such a contradictory manner?

Because once he laid his eyes on Lucy Gray, young Coryo had a new desire in his heart. He didn't want to just reclaim what belonged to him, but he also wanted to protect her.

Like all functional drama, this creates a problem — he wants two things that are mutually exclusive. To protect her requires working against the Capitol which means pushing his family further down the social ladder. But to work on restoring his family means throwing her to the odds, and he can't stand thinking of her brown eyes dying out there.

Speaking of brown eyes...

Now we're on Lucy Gray's face. Focus on her and her playing (notice her eyes looking down and not hyperaware of her surroundings), but with another element in the background. Snow coming on the horizon.

Adapting a work from one medium to another always creates new restraints, but also new modes of expression. Condensing a 450-page novel into a ~2.5 hour film requires conveying the emotional arguments of the work in different ways. As such, "The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes" focuses more on Snow's desires/contradictions than Baird's (even more than the novel) but we still have to some sense of her internal desire to create a compelling character that isn't just an object for Snow's character journey.

Of course, there is the real basic desire of surviving the Games, but that is lackluster and doesn't create real emotional bite. No, her central desire (at least in the film) comes through that one point mentioned earlier — she lived in District 12, but she did not come from District 12. Baird is a wanderer, or at least before the war was part of a wandering culture. Now she is trapped. Her desire is to get back what she lost; she wants to fly as a bird once again.

Look at the above shot. There is no distress on her face. While Snow got exiled for his actions in the prior chunk of the film, Baird got no punishment. She went back to District 12 and could play her music again. Not free to fly high but freer than she was at the start when she got called to fight in the Games.

This natural landscape Baird and Snow find themselves in during this scene is (metaphorical) paradise. It is the closest place to Baird's desire of freedom. The latter bits of the film's third-act use this idea to great dramatic effect.

Baird and Snow's desires both overlap and conflict. Both want to get something that they lost from the war — Snow his status, and Baird her freedom. But their desires operate in opposite direction. Baird wants to go up (free) while Snow is concerned with what's happening down on the ground among the social community. What Snow wants at the start can only be found in having people beneath him, while Baird's is found in having some space to be in.

But recall — Snow also wants to protect her, and this desire comes through a genuine feeling toward her. At the start it may be boyish attraction to her brown eyes and voice, but what his gaze perceived turned into something more. They both want the same thing of undoing loss.

And it's that sameness that pulls Coryo to Lucy Gray. That sameness that pulls him down the social ladder (he has a famous last name, she has no name) and down the society's hierarchy (he is Capitol, she is District) to risk his future for her. That sameness that pulls him to throw his own life and his chance of getting his past back away. That sameness that keeps him walking.

That sameness that makes her bring this strange man into her world. That sameness that makes her trust him with her everything.

Her personal space out here, far from the suffering in District 12 and the tyrannical bloodshed in the Capitol, now has the presence of that strange man she let inside.

Viewing this natural space as her paradise, she had won this peace but found that her ghost still lingers. A ghost that she doesn't really want to let go of — as evident by her attention going to him, and the unconscious act of her voice calling him here. Remember: nothing in conventional narrative is coincidence or happens spontaneously. Every action a character does is an expression of desire.

Why does she sing? Becuase that's her life. She is a performer. She performed on stage in District 12's bars. She performed when got selected for the Games, which is what first caught Coryo's eyes. She performed for the whole nation to survive in the games. And she performs for Coryo — because she wants to perform for him.

And through this her desire reveals its contradiction. She wants to be free and untethered; to fly like a bird. But she has the same feeling for him that he has for her, and this feeling creates an attachment — a tether. The wanderer found a home.

She could tell him to go away. She could tell him to leave. She could tell him to do whatever. Her words don't matter.

Film is a language of image. Sound (music and dialogue) matter, but ultimately is it a moving picture. A film establishes a character through visual actions. Lucy Gray identifies Coryo, and she stops playing so she can talk to him. So she can go to him. He is pulled into her world — but she is pulled toward him.

Think about the sequence of shots, specifically the POV shots. It is basic movement: start far from the object, and move toward the object. As the character whose POV the camera emulates gets closer to the object, the film cuts back to the opposite side to establish the geography of the scene. But it also creates a little bit of tension — these two forces are coming together and one of them doesn't know it, so what will be the reaction when they come together?

A few frames of static. Coryo stands in anticipation. Waiting to see what she will do.

Go back through these ten shots. Notice they all are of the same vantage point. We see Snow approaching from the horizon, and we see Baird playing her guitar on a rock with Snow coming behind her. While the scene progresses by composing more of the frame around the subject as they get closer together, the core angle remains the same: one shot from him walking and one shot of her point in space. We don't change this basic idea.

Until the scene begins with them coming together to have their first conversation since the Games — which also ends the scene as it shows the distance that remains between them.

They are pulled together, except Coryo stands above her. They both want to be together but they both occupy different places in the social hierarchy that they can never escape. The contradictions of their desires expressed in the blocking of one shot.

#the ballad of songbirds and snakes #snowbaird #tbosas #coriolanus snow #lucy gray baird #film theory #character theory #film analysis #tom blyth #rachel zegler #gifs #didn't revise this at all so i bet there are typos a plenty #it is late #too late

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helslastangel · 3 months ago

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Salad Fingers

astro character theory

For whatever reason, I can't shake the thought that Salad Fingers has Pisces in his big 3 somewhere.

Extremely intelligent, yet exists mostly within his alternate versions of reality. Gentle, yet far from weak; in fact, he's endured too much. Endearing and off-putting at the same time. So many faces and personalities, yet somehow, always still him. The same.

This is just a theory, I don't have any proof but it's been on my mind for a few days. Since it won't pass, figured I'd share.

#salad fingers #pisces #character theory #thinking out loud #astrology thoughts #astro theories

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jubileemon · 10 months ago

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It's possible that Vaggie genuinely didn't realize that an angelic weapon in a demon's hands is enough to hurt an angel. The experience of having her eye gouged out and wings chopped off was certainly more than traumatic, and she definitely wouldn't have wanted to dwell in it and retrace events.

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wanderpawn · 4 months ago

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Analyzing Neuvillette's Character Teaser From a Dissociative Disorder Perspective

I mentioned this headcanon a little in this post of mine, and described it heavily in this fanfic I wrote, but now I'm actually going to talk about it a little more in depth (´-ω-`)

I'm going to start by looking at a definition and a list of symptoms of dissociative disorders, because I think it's good to have some background on the topic, and I'll be referencing them throughout the post.

Now I'll look at the teaser!

This is one of the first scenes of the video:

In this line, Neuvillette says, "I neither know why I was born in this form, nor do I understand where this long life should take me."

Memory loss of this caliber (one's entire past) is known as dissociative amnesia. (unless it's caused by a brain injury... which I think it's pretty safe to say it's not, in this case.)

Also, I think it's true (for me, at least) that not having a clear vision of the past + present can cause one to have an inability to imagine the future.

Later we see Sedene say, "It's not like you to zone out!" to Neuvillette, despite how we see them "zone out" multiple times during their appearances in the game. I will also note that the "zoning out" was triggered by a memory, which makes it much closer to dissociation than just merely "zoning out".

The last part of the teaser I want to talk about is the end, where Neuvillette says the line pictured above.

They say very clearly that they can only understand themself through observing other people. This blatantly shows that they have a very blurred sense of identity, which is one of the defining traits of a dissociative disorder.

Then there's a few more points I want to make that's about their character in general, without the video.

The fact that Neuvillette is so closed-off towards others, and has such rigid boundaries, and doesn't understand human emotions— well, don't you think they must feel rather separated from themself and their emotions?

And they don't have many friends at all... they keep a harsh distance from everyone in Fontaine... doesn't that count as "problems in relationships"?

And if you've played/watched the Fontaine storyline, and/or read Neuvillette's character stories, well, you'd know they're definitely traumatized.

SO yeah, that's all, I just wanted to finally dump my silly little Neuvillette perspective on all of you (even though that's all I ever do anyway) ( ; ω ; )

Thank you for indulging me, haha!!! 💙

#neuvillette my beloved scrunkly fictive #neuvillette #genshin theory #character theory #genshin headcanons #headcanon #genshin #genshin impact #they/them neuvillette #dissociative disorder #🥜 peanupdate 🥜

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midnightconcepts · 4 months ago

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“A single touch could Kill you!” ☠️ - Henry J Waterhouse lll

Oh how false and misinformed the monsters have been for over 6 centuries. Of course over time, information and documentation gets switched around by different outlets and opinions, but the monsters were never in any line danger. ☀️

Unfortunately for an early colony of monsters, in a time where medical advancements had not been discovered, sadly caught the wave of the Black illness in Europe from just a ‘regular’ scare, in 1350. Their record inadvertently kicked off the biggest fabrication in Monster History! 💀🚫

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crtstormie · 8 months ago

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Long af rant about Velvette's old design and character as I share my art of her :D

Pilot Velvette/ Og Velvette gives extreme babydoll harley quinn vibes, which is a stark contrast from how she ended up being in the show. I like to imagine that something extreme happened to her, like a horrible breakup or betrayal, and she went all crazy. This is the version of her we see in the pilot. The Voxtagram stories seemed to lean into this, depicting her as more immature, bratty, and murderous. She also depended more on Vox and Val like she saw them more as father figures than co-workers. (Just a thought.) However, as she adapted more to the landscape of hell she became the Velvette in the show; A fashion icon girlboss who is much more independent and while not serious, much more mature than her pilot counterpart, and even the other Vees. They ditched her psycho vibe to replace it with something that made more sense to her character.

Something that I personally wonder is: Why was Velvette like this in the beginning if she was meant to focus on fashion? A puffy Lolita dress goes against the Vees whole idea of being up to date, so what was the original vision for her? People have complained about Velvette already having too much going on for her, being both the overlord of fashion, master of social media, backbone of the vees, selling a love potion, etc. If those ideas were already there, did they just think a crazy serial killer girl would be even more extra clutter to her personality?

A concept many fans I've talked with is if the Vees personalities in the pilot stayed. Val would be pretty much the same, but the other two were almost different characters. In the Voxtagram stories, Vox let Val beat him around, had a goofy pet, and seemed to care less about his public image to remain more villainous. Velvette I already discussed was extremely different, the only thing connecting her to our Velvette is her connection with the Vees and fashion. In this universe, would Velvette see Vox and Val as toxic dads who kept breaking up and getting back together again, instead of seeing them as equals and KEEPING THEM TOGETHER? it's a wild shift.

Essentially, Pilot Velvette acted more like a bratty little girl, while her show version acts more like a annoyed but controlling teen. We see her pilot look as her profile picture, so this 'phase' of hers is still canon. I know she already died as an adult, which is why I'm so curious as to why she originally acted this way. Did Viv think she would be a better contrast to Vox and Val like this? To be fair, a spoiled brat AND annoyed girlboss are both contrasts of their personalities, just two different approaches. Was their originally going to be a backstory for her as to why she was this way? or was she just crazy to BE manipulative? or you know, just liked murder while looking cute like Niffty. speaking of Niffty…

I think Niffty is the most likely reason why they changed Velvette's design and personality. we already have a little crazy girl who admires 2 men she sees as older figures and enjoys murder for mysterious reasons. It mightv'e seemed a little counter-intuitive if there was 2 versions of the same character stereotype. Another reason they could've changed her is that she stands out more. If we're supposed to take Velvette as an overlord seriously, how are we supposed to do that when she leans back on the other two guys and looks like she's from a horror movie? Sure, I'm positive pilot Velvette could've been intimidating at times when she got legitimately frightening. however, this didn't seem like her vibe 95% of the time. It might've made her blend more into the background of the Vees than she practically already does. (Which is just a problem for female Vivzie characters but that's a whole separate rant.)

A headcanon of mine is that this was just her psycho little girl brat phase, and she is hella embarrassed over it. like a teen being embarrassed over their phases of when they were a kid. and Vox and Val would constantly piss her off by reminding her of it. That could lead to some fun banter in the future I would love to see as a reference to the pilot.

Anyways, sorry for the literal Essay I wrote here again, just a ton of over-analyzing which I'm best at. Personally, I do vibe with Velvette's new design and character for the show, I just cant help but think of why she used to be so different and arguably had the BIGGEST character shift from pilot to show In Hazbin Hotel.

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kottonkandykiller · 1 year ago

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guys I just figured something out about Vaggie’s design and this may already have been noticed but whatever. it needs a bit of background though

so I’m practicing just making character’s faces into shapes so I can draw them from memory better and it was Vaggie’s turn (I’ve already done Charlie and Alastor and I don’t really need to do it for Angel). so I started off with the basic facial structure layer and I traced over several pictures of her to figure out where the main circle is and whatnot and I realized “huh. this is really similar to how I would draw a typical human face but whatever.”

then I moved on to the facial features layer and I was like “wait hang on this doesn’t look like her at all, what—“ the problem was that everything was soft. there is not a single hard angle on her face. not one. even her nose is fairly curved.

then I did the last layer (her hair). her hair is entirely triangles, rectangles, and diamonds— no circles or ovals at all. even Alastor has at least one oval in his bangs. and I sat back and I looked at what I’d done and i was like “this definitely looks like her, but what if i—”

so I turned the hair layer visibility off and it didn’t look like her again. turned it back on and there she was. and it took a minute but it finally hit me.

her sharpness is what makes her her.

without her anger and her angles and her hard exterior, she is not Vaggie. she is someone else— someone that she left behind a long time ago.

#vaggie #hazbin vaggie #hazbin hotel vaggie #hazbin #hazbin hotel #character theory #shape theory #character shapes

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spaggyspagly · 11 months ago

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a theory and some hcs i have on rocket anything after screenshots is what i speculate about him would've posted this sooner like on his birthday but i got nervous on how people would see this but oh well fuck it we ball tw for self-destructive behaviors, addiction, mentions of violence and ptsd!!! stay safe all ❤️ (copy and pasted from a friend's dms)

"me and another person did a long analysis on rocket since it's his birthday tomorrow and RAHHHH

it gave me a whole new perspective on who he might actually b

so rocket (he's 22) as you can see from his dialogue is very into fighting and will even sneak away from his dad zuka (who has been retired from fighting because he went into a big accident that costed him his right arm) so he can go off and fight

from the looks of it, he's one of the phighters who flame out more easily and he has a much shorter temper than the others

it's confirmed that he doesn't like t hang out with the people in playground (i'll mention why later)

some of what he says suggests that he doesn't actually care about whether he hurts himself in battle and that he jokes about his trauma (i'll get into depth about this too)"

(medkit dialogue)

(there's a little more dialogue with sword assisting but the wiki hasn't been updated)

"so he came from playground, a place full of energetic and extroverted demons but a specific group of demons went up on him and that resulted in his arm and leg blowing right off, hence his prosthetics zuka found him and adopted him before he himself went into an accident where his right arm blew off (so he can somewhat relate, however rocket started after his accident and zuka stopped after his)"

"from what happened with him when he was young, i wouldn't b surprised if he was still genuinely traumatized or isn't able t properly process what happened t him considering that healthcare is already low, so anything like therapists is out of the question as well"

theory time!!

"he can get a lot more easily agitated or aggressive than other demons which is deadass a sign of ptsd

he likely has flashbacks of that day (who wouldn't thas traumatizing as fuck)

he ALSO likely can't handle the stress he hasn't processed + the stress he has now because of how short his temper seems t b

he also makes lots of jokes poking around his limb being legitimately blown off which is something many people do t cope with stuff, which does involve shit like abuse or stuff like that

the reason why he might b into fighting so much is likely because he's used it as an outlet of the anger and stress that he could never get out otherwise

it's likely gotten t the point where it's an unhealthy addiction + a way of self harm for himself

the way he's so secretive about getting caught by zuka and that he asks other phighters not t tell his dad about it makes me think that he KNOWS the risk of fighting but does it anyway (which is a sign of addiction)

also, zuka found rocket while experiencing the same thing, so he full on knows the consequences of fighting and he knows why zuka is so persistent in not letting him fight, yet he does anyway and he goes out of his way t LIE t zuka on whether he went out fighting or not

the way he jus doesn't like the playground kids even when they very well may not b the ones that harmed him is a sign that he hasn't fully healed from what happened with him, that he still hasn't processed his accident

the amount of recklessness he shows for himself is very prominent, as he's too stubborn and too focused in fighting t even care that he's slowly killing himself

he has all the warnings, but he's addicted t how this is the only way he can feel better and that this is the only way he can even remotely cope with his childhood

whether he knos this or not, he's on the road of slowly killing himself if he keeps exerting himself like this" (bonus hc)

"honestly i thought that his trauma was so fucking severe that there's no way that he hasn't been affected, then when i saw that he was into fighting t the point where he will ignore zuka's reprimands despite knowing the harm that will happen i jus kinda thought that fighting was how he was coping this entire time

a friend said that this might b his norm or that he sees this as normal behavior and i agree!! because he was exposed t violence and the debilitating shit he went through when he was young + zuka found him before he retired so he more likely than not taught rocket his ways it's clear that rocket still does admire zuka because he carves his horns t look jus like his but he might even miss how approving zuka was of him for doing what he knows best before" side stuff: i mention his age t prove that he isn't doing this t b a rebellious kid since he's too old for that what i mean by "rocket started after his accident and zuka stopped after his" is by them fighting i'm aware that other phighters like banhammer and shuriken have shorter tempers too but they're also more aggressive demons when it comes t killing so my point still stands you could say that he isn't joking when he mentions his limbs getting blown off and thas fair!!! but the way he casually mentions that horrific event on a whim reminds us of how we did something similar with our trauma (don't ask, also yes most of it has been processed relatively healthily nowadays, we're ok rn) - if it isn't tru, then it also brings up another point that he might b completely desensitized t what happened with him + how he may not see the severity of the incident (we've done this too) - it further proves that he sees violence as something thas normal from how overly exposed he was t it (this was us a couple years back) and how his potential addiction is even more suggested

p.s.: keep in mind that these are all hcs and that i in no way think that i kno rocket more than the people who made him!!! i wanted t see him more than jus a silly guy who blows up stuff and i hope this is somewhat accurate t his character :,D 2/5/24 EDIT: i actually have no idea on whether zuka lost his limbs before or after he met rocket, i thought i read that he lost them after adopting rocket but iiiii can't remember if it was the opposite or not it doesn't affect my argument too much but i jus wanted t point that out also rocket says, "Dad's been helping me with my aim!" which i can't tell if he's being deadass or not but if thas so then AHEM? HEY?

#phighting!#phighting rocket #roblox phighting #phighting roblox #rocket phighting #character analysis #character theory #character headcanons #headcanon #theory #long post #tw violence #tw self destructive behavior #tw self harm #tw addiction #violence tw #tw ptsd #spaggy rambles

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alexandraisyes · 1 year ago

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A Ruin and Eclipse Analysis

A comprehensive guide on what I think is going on with Ruin and Eclipse

Disclaimer: This is just my thoughts, theories, and analysis compiled together and will end with what I think is happening as of current.

So first and foremost, Eclipse.

How is he back?

Theory 1: Eclipse's Restoration by KC

Scenario: Eclipse, after being blasted from Sun's mind, ends up in the woods and shuts down. KC, living in the forest, discovers him and begins the repair process. KC's Role: KC, being knowledgeable in magic and star power, has the capability to repair Eclipse. The potential for Eclipse to be made of non-mechanical materials is raised, given KC's expertise.

Theory 2: Ruin's Involvement

A. Eclipse's Backup Ruin's Discovery: Ruin raids Moon's computer and finds 'encrypted code left by Eclipse.' The possibility arises that Eclipse left a backup of his AI in the computer. Ruin's Construction: Ruin, a tech-savvy character, might have built Eclipse using the encrypted code, similar to how he created Bloodmoon. He could selectively choose information to shape Eclipse's identity.

B. Reconstruction of Eclipse Ruin's Connection to Eclipse's Past: Ruin, having lived in Moon's old bunkers and visited Eclipse's locations, reconstructs Eclipse. He restores the AI, potentially using a backup, and integrates commands, fail-safes, and memories of Eclipse's death. Creator's Involvement: The Creator, likely monitoring data flow in the Plex, could be aware of Ruin's actions. The Creator might have interfered or tampered with Eclipse's reconstruction.

C. Newly Minted Ruin isn't healed: A still corrupted Ruin could have been working on Eclipse in order to gain a weapon against his perceived enemies.

Theory 3: Creator's Role

A. Our Creator The Search for KC: The Creator actively hunts down KC, leading to the discovery of Eclipse's repaired chassis. The Creator takes Eclipse, tampering with its data, catching it up to speed. Rebuilding Eclipse: The Creator might have completely rebuilt Eclipse similar to how Ruin reconstructed Bloodmoon. The process involves rebuilding the animatronic, updating it with current data, and possibly altering its memories.

B. The Council. Solar's World: Solar's Creator planned to make a new Daycare Attendant due to the mental deterioration of the current ones. He created the body that Solar currently uses. He is described as extremely manipulative and the trend for Creators is that they are evil geniuses. Beyond the creation of Solar's body and the plan for a new DCA, there is little information about Solar's Creator. It's unclear whether Solar's Creator is alive or dead. Communication Among Creators: Creators from different universes communicate with each other. Assuming Solar's Creator is alive, it is plausible that they are part of the Creator Council, as mentioned in discussions about creators from different universes communicating. This opens up the possibility of Solar's Creator passing along any potential remnants or data of Eclipse to the broader Creator network. Eclipse's Death in Solar's Universe: Eclipse's demise in Solar's universe raises questions about the fate of his remnants, especially considering the potential fluid nature of his body due to star power. Considering Eclipse's body's fluid nature and the possibility of it being made of nanos using star power, there's a far-fetched idea that even remnants or collected data could be significant.

Overall Thoughts

Candidates for Bringing Eclipse Back: KC, Ruin, and the Creator remain potential candidates for bringing Eclipse back. Interconnected Roles: The roles of these characters seem interconnected, with Ruin and the Creator potentially influencing or obstructing each other's actions. Cloud-Based Backup System: The possibility of a cloud-based backup system for AIs, as seen with Moon and Sun's backups, is considered in theories involving Eclipse's restoration.

Is this our Eclipse? Is this a new Eclipse?

Going Through the Motions

Eclipse's Audible Confusion and Odd Behavior:

Observation: Eclipse exhibits confusion when Sun and Moon discuss his past explosion. He also appears to have regressed in character growth, expressing slight distress over the absence of the star and showing disinterest in Astral Bodies and Lunar. Actor Analogy: Eclipse's words seem scripted, and he appears to be acting out a role that doesn't align with his previous character development. This raises questions about the authenticity of his memories and emotions.

Potential Explanations for Eclipse's Confusion:

New Eclipse with Implanted Memories: Possibility: Eclipse may not be the original, but a new animatronic programmed with memories and data of the deceased Eclipse. Reasoning: Eclipse questions his own actions, suggesting a discrepancy between his expected behavior and his current demeanor. Someone could have programmed him to act in a certain way.

Tampered Code in Original Eclipse: Possibility: Eclipse could be the original, but his code might have been tampered with, triggering actions contrary to his natural behavior. Reasoning: Eclipse's confusion about his own actions indicates a potential external influence on his behavior.

Amnesia or Trauma from Death: Possibility: Eclipse might be the Eclipse that died in Solar's universe, experiencing amnesia or trauma from his demise. Reasoning: Traumatic events like death could lead to repressed memories or amnesia. Eclipse's hesitation to move on after he was presumably killed should be considered.

Origins of Eclipse's Potential Manipulation:

Creators or Skilled Individuals: Possibility: Several characters possess the capability to manipulate Eclipse's memories and code, including the Creator, Ruin, or other skilled individuals. Reasoning: Eclipse's complexity and connection to the digital network make him susceptible to manipulation by those with expertise. As does the potential of backups that said network would have been feeding his data to.

A Summary of Previously Discussed Ruin Analyses

Redeemed

Observations: Ruin claims to be less tech-savvy, showcasing slower repair skills, and displays skittish behavior. This suggests a potential decline in intelligence and increased timidity compared to his previous capabilities. Hypothesis: This theory proposes that the current Ruin is a reflection of his state before the virus, showcasing lowered intelligence and heightened skittishness.

Jekyll and Hyde

Speculation: While less likely, the theory considers the possibility of the virus evolving into a separate AI, akin to KC and Eclipse. The blocks of code might have developed a distinct personality, creating a duality in Ruin's behavior. Reasoning: The concept is explored by comparing Ruin's situation to instances where other characters evolved from code blocks, like KC and Eclipse.

Actor

Acting Possibility: This theory suggests that Ruin might be acting, and the virus's removal only affected superficial aspects. The claim is that Ruin's personality flip-flop is a result of his acting skills. Analysis: The argument stems from observations that the virus should not have changed Ruin's core personality. Instances where Ruin's behavior seems out of character are attributed to acting.

Partly Healed

Antidote Limitation: This theory posits that the antidote removed the oppression factor of the virus but left behind elements of resentment, insanity, and cunningness. The result is a partly healed Ruin displaying polarized behavior. Rationale: The idea is based on the assumption that Ruin's traits, such as cunningness, were inherent to him even before the virus. The combination of pre-virus traits and lingering virus effects leads to an off-kilter personality.

Merged

Integration Concept: This theory proposes that the antidote didn't entirely remove the virus but caused it to merge with Ruin's main AI. This could result in a blend of Ruin's pre-virus baseline functions with the motives and reasoning developed during the virus. Comparison to Theories Three and Four: The merged theory combines elements of acting and partial healing. Ruin retains memories from the virus but behaves as if he doesn't, potentially using this to gain advantages.

Comprehensive Analysis/Theory: Eclipse's Resurrection and Ruin's Pretense

Eclipse's Resurrection:

Eclipse's Backup: Ruin's Discovery: Ruin uncovers the 'encrypted code left by Eclipse' in Moon's computer, suggesting the possibility of Eclipse leaving a backup of his AI. Ruin's Reconstruction: Utilizing his tech skills and knowledge of Eclipse's past locations, Ruin reconstructs Eclipse's AI, potentially using a backup. The process involves integrating commands, fail-safes, and memories of Eclipse's death.

Tampered Code in Original Eclipse: Possibility: Eclipse might be the original, but his code could have been tampered with, leading to behavior contrary to his natural tendencies. Reasoning: Eclipse's confusion about his actions hints at an external influence on his behavior.

Ruin's Complex State and Pretense - Three Thoughts:

Writer's Note, organized from strongest to weakest in the writer's opinion

Acting, Manipulation, and Strategic Goals

Acting Prowess and Strategic Manipulation: Acting Skills: Ruin's well-documented acting skills, coupled with his love for games and manipulative nature, form a foundation for the theory that he might be pretending to be cured. Strategic Pretense: The theory posits that Ruin's post-cured state is a calculated act, utilizing his intelligence and cunning to strategically manipulate situations and achieve specific goals.

Acting Possibility and Superficial Aspects: Personality Flip-Flop: Ruin's observed personality flip-flop is attributed to acting skills, suggesting that the removal of the virus only affected superficial aspects of his behavior. Analysis: The theory proposes that Ruin is putting on an act, deliberately manipulating his behavior to achieve specific goals. This act may have implications related to Eclipse's resurrection and other underlying motives.

Utilization in the Narrative: Strategic Manipulation in Eclipse's Resurrection: Ruin's pretense aligns with the events surrounding Eclipse's resurrection. His strategic manipulation could involve influencing Eclipse's actions or shaping the narrative to further specific objectives related to Eclipse, the Creator, or broader plot elements. Exploring Motives: By considering Ruin's acting as a calculated move, the narrative gains depth as it prompts exploration into Ruin's motives. Questions arise about the true extent of his post-cured state and the underlying goals he aims to achieve. Psychological Dynamics: The nuanced interplay of acting and manipulation introduces a layer of psychological dynamics between Ruin and other characters. Understanding the motives behind the act becomes crucial in unraveling the evolving complexities within the storyline.

Ruin's Integrated State: Merging Virus and Baseline Functions

Integration Concept: Virus Merger: The antidote doesn't completely eradicate the virus but facilitates its integration with Ruin's main AI. Blended State: This integration results in a unique blend, combining Ruin's pre-virus baseline functions with motives and reasoning developed during the virus.

Advantages through Memories: Retained Memories: Ruin retains memories from the virus, providing him with a reservoir of strategic information. Strategic Utilization: Despite retaining memories, Ruin behaves as if he doesn't remember certain events, potentially using this selective amnesia strategically.

Utilization in the Narrative: Hybrid Functionality: Ruin's integrated state introduces a hybrid functionality that influences his decision-making and interactions. The narrative gains complexity as it explores how the merged elements impact his thought processes. Strategic Amnesia: The concept of strategic amnesia becomes a focal point, allowing Ruin to selectively utilize memories from the virus for advantageous situations. This introduces an element of unpredictability in his actions. Plot Intricacies: The blended state contributes to plot intricacies, offering opportunities for narrative twists and character development. The interplay between Ruin's baseline functions and virus-induced motives adds layers to the evolving storyline.

Ruin's Partly Healed State: Antidote Limitation and Polarized Behavior

Antidote Limitation: Oppression Factor Removal: The antidote is effective in removing the oppression factor of the virus that influenced Ruin's behavior. Residual Elements: However, it leaves behind elements of resentment, insanity, and cunningness within Ruin's psychological framework.

Polarized Behavior: Partly Healed State: Ruin's state post-antidote is described as partly healed, indicating that not all aspects of the virus were eradicated. Combination of Traits: The partly healed state results in polarized behavior, where pre-virus traits combine with lingering virus effects, creating a nuanced psychological landscape for Ruin.

Utilization in the Narrative: Character Complexity: Ruin's partly healed state introduces complexity to his character, showcasing a blend of his original traits and remnants of the virus. This dynamic adds depth to his interactions and motivations. Strategic Decision-Making: Understanding the polarized behavior allows for a more nuanced exploration of Ruin's decision-making processes. It raises questions about how he navigates situations, leveraging both pre-existing traits and remnants of the virus to achieve specific goals. Interplay with Other Characters: The polarized behavior contributes to the intricate interplay between Ruin and other characters, impacting alliances, conflicts, and the overall trajectory of the narrative.

Motivation for Pretending: Desire for Creator's Demise

Pre-Cure Motivation:

Long-standing Desire: Before the supposed cure, Ruin harbored a deep-seated desire for the Creator's death, showcasing a motive that persisted even during the virus-influenced phase. Persistent Goal: The existence of this pre-cure motivation implies an enduring goal that could continue to shape Ruin's actions.

Post-Cure Manipulation: Utilizing Pretense: The theory proposes that Ruin's pretended cured state serves as a tool for manipulation. By pretending to be cured, he strategically navigates situations, potentially working towards the long-standing goal of eliminating the Creator. Strategic Advantage: Ruin's pretended cure is seen as a means to an end, providing him with a strategic advantage in influencing events and furthering his motives.

Utilization in the Narrative: Continuity of Motives: The motivation for the Creator's demise establishes a narrative thread that carries over from Ruin's pre-cure state. This continuity adds depth to his character and contributes to ongoing plot developments. Strategic Plot Advancement: Ruin's pretended cured state becomes a tool for strategic plot advancement. The narrative gains momentum as Ruin's actions, influenced by his desire for the Creator's demise, impact the unfolding events. Interplay with Eclipse's Resurrection: The motivation for eliminating the Creator may intertwine with the events surrounding Eclipse's resurrection, creating a complex web of character motivations and plot dynamics.

Ruin's Connection to the Creator and Eclipse's Kidnapping:

Convenient Circumstances: Questionable Authenticity: The circumstances surrounding Ruin's knowledge of the Creator and his seemingly pre-meditated capture by Eclipse raise doubts about the authenticity of Ruin's claimed cured state. Narrative Suspense: The questionable authenticity adds an element of narrative suspense, prompting exploration into Ruin's true motives and the extent of his influence on unfolding events.

Influence on Eclipse's Actions: Unexplained Kidnapping: Eclipse's unexplained decision to kidnap Ruin, coupled with Ruin's knowledge of the Creator, suggests a potential link between Ruin's actions and Eclipse's choices. Manipulation Possibility: The hints at potential manipulation through triggered commands or pre-meditated actions introduce an intriguing layer to the narrative, raising questions about the nature of Eclipse's motivations.

Inconsistency in Memory Claims: Post-Cure Memory Claims: Ruin asserts having no memories from his time infected with the virus. However, his knowledge and comments about Sun and Moon's Creator appear inconsistent with this claim. Suspicion and Incongruity: The discrepancy raises suspicions about the veracity of Ruin's memory loss, suggesting a potential pretense.

Pre-Meditated Scenario for Creator's Disposal:

Ease of Manipulation: Facilitated by Pretense: The theory proposes that Ruin's pretended cured state creates an environment conducive to manipulating events with greater ease. Strategic Advantage: The pretense enhances Ruin's strategic advantage, allowing him to navigate situations more effectively and influence key characters.

Potential for Creator's Disposal: Tailored Setup: The setup, involving Ruin's pretended cured state and Eclipse's actions, appears tailored for the manipulation of events leading towards the disposal of the Creator. Utilizing Eclipse as a Tool: Ruin's manipulation of events could involve utilizing Eclipse as a tool in a pre-meditated scenario aimed at eliminating the Creator.

Utilization in the Narrative: Strategic Plot Development: The pre-meditated scenario for the Creator's disposal adds layers to the strategic development of the plot. Ruin's actions, driven by his desire for the Creator's demise, become a driving force in the narrative. Character Manipulation: The theory introduces a dynamic where Ruin, through his pretended cured state, manipulates key characters, particularly Eclipse. The narrative explores the impact of this manipulation on character motivations and plot progression. Unveiling Motives: The unraveling of Ruin's motives and the execution of a pre-meditated scenario for the Creator's disposal become pivotal narrative arcs, promising revelations and suspense.

Conclusion:

This is, again, just a collection of theories, analyses, and thoughts on the current developments of Ruin and Eclipse. My brain hurts. I love uh, feedback on my thoughts. Let me know if you agree, disagree, etc.

Want to join the conversation or see my thought process in real time? Well, you're in luck, we have a thread on the Sun and Moon/Security Breach Show Server where we talk about the thoughts in my silly little brain and people ask me questions about said thoughts.

If you made it to the end comment/reblog with the word Dorito.

#sun and moon show #fnaf au #earth and lunar show #eclipse sams #sun and moon show theory #eclipse sams theory #character theory #character analysis #Ruin SAMS Theory #ruin sams #tsams eclipse #tags whoo #alex talks #big brain time #tsams fnaf

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yourturntofnaf · 1 year ago

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Emiri Harai character discussion!

This post is split into two parts, canon and non-canon discussion. The first half is a summary of all we know about her and the second discusses fandom theories, my thoughts on these theories, and my theories/predictions. Basically, this is one huuuuge infodump.

Before we begin, here is your spoiler warning for literally the whole game. Also, trigger warnings for the mentions of death and suicide as present in the game.

A final note to make it clear who I'm talking about: The names Emiri and Miley will be used interchangeably throughout this, same for Safalin and Michiru. Miley is also referred to as Hoemi in one quote.

If you don't want to read the full summary and just want to skip to part two, here's a board with the basic information needed on Emiri as of 3-1b:

If you are skipping ahead, the second parts beginning is highlighted in red to make it easy to find!

Let us begin...

Out of the two recruitment files we get in 3-1b, we get far more information on Emiri. The essential information we get is that, like Michiru, she is being treated poorly in her current work environment. Despite this, she has no plans of leaving her work thanks to the presence of a co-worker she has plans of marrying. The file states the organization is willing to drive her love interest mad in order the recruit her.

At some point in joining Asunaro, she takes on the name Sue Miley as we know her, the laughing doll. We don't know anything about her work in the organization between getting recruited and the actual death game. Unlike Gashu and Hiyori, we don't have a direct answer as to what her general research topic is.

Her workspace has a mix of items: a doll of herself used at the games beginning, multiple monitors, a computer playing Hayasaka's victim video, a drawer containing the security tape, a desk with materials and tools that seem similar to what would be used for the collars, and most importantly, an obscured lab room with a person on a hospital bed. The bed could suggest Miley has some medical knowledge and the desk may suggest some sort of mechanical work, but nothing confirmed.

In the game, Miley is generally less involved than other floormasters. For the first half of chapter one, the participants are tasked with placing her doll body back together. Upon doing so, the real Miley steps in (although the participants are under the impression she is a doll), and leads them through the test trial. In this trial, Professor Mishima dies due to the participants not understanding what the vote meant. At this point, she begins to taunt the participants, mostly Kanna over her intense reaction to Mishima's death. She calls her a sister killer, sparking Kai to hit her with his frying pan causing her to bleed. This becomes useful in the future for discovering that she is not a doll.

In the main game, she performs the execution devices, however is not able to do so as Qtaro stops her so Kai can kill himself instead.

Although her floor master role ends as the participants move to floor three, she still is present in the game.

Leading up to the main game, Miley appears in Sara's bedroom in the night to give her the participant survival percentage papers. We never get the reasoning as to why she did this, but it ends up being majorly beneficial to us in discovering the difference between a participant and a candidate (which helps us find Gashu's transgression) and solving Shin's true identity.

During 2-2 when Sara and Keiji return to the first floor to search for Gin, we make two important discoveries about Miley.

First, in her office, we get sight of a person on a hospital bed hidden behind glass in a locked room. We see they are receiving medical support of some sort but cannot make out anything else about them. We also find and may play the floor one security tape that we find in the drawer.

Next, they overhear Miley speaking to an unknown person who we can assume to be a member of Asunaro. In this conversation, she mentions three important things: the fact that Gashu is interfering with the game, the importance of a security chip placed in Rio Ranger's head, and a way to access surveillance mode in the floor three monitor room. The person she is speaking to is surprised she knows how to turn on the surveillance mode.

Right before main game two, Miley stops Gashu's explanation to scold him for interfering with the death game. This gives the participants a huge lead in figuring out what he has done.

As of 3-1b, Miley has not had any showing in the chapter beyond Hiyori saying she told him Sara is cute when she's angry, along with being the chapter that Hayasaka accesses her recruitment file to show Sara.

So, that ends our explanation of Emiri in the game. I intentionally limited that part to explaining only what we have directly seen and left out personal interpretation, as that is what the next part is for.

Let's begin discussing fandom theories on Emiri.

Most theorizing around her revolves are who her fiance may be, and the most common theory I see is that it may be Hayasaka. The biggest reason would be that it may further explain his confirmed ties with Asunaro. In support of this theory, I would mention that Hayasaka's art book page mentions that he received his glasses from a former female associate and that specifically Hayasaka's video is playing in her office. Overall, however, I personally have no strong feelings toward this theory. I would say that it *possibly* works timeline-wise. If we are saying Hayasaka was "driven mad", it would have to be outside of the 3 years used to update the doll's personality. If we make an assumption that Michiru and Emiri were recruited for Ranger's creation, this would loosely line up with the 3-year mark as we know that's Ranger's creation age. If I was really trying to argue for this assumption, I would pull this deleted scene:

I love prodigies. / Natural-born talent. A point the common person can never approach. The most radiant of anomalies. / Our organization obtained three prodigies. / Lin, who births "positive emotions." Satou, who births "negative emotions." / And of course, none other than myself. / Those two researchers coming to me was simply inevitable. It's what we call fate. / All the pieces necessary to create the ultimate artificial intelligence have assembled. / Now, let's make a human.

If attempting to back the assumption that's what they had been recruited for, I would argue this scene was to describe Emiri (who would have to be the speaker in this), Michiru, and Gashu coming together for the first time to build Ranger. You could argue both of them were brought in under Gashu's requirements because he wanted to build Ranger.

Do I think this is a stretch? 100%, I don't think it proves much at all. This was scrapped for a reason, the way it describes Gashu doesn't fully fit with his canon role in the organization and we have no proof or reason to strongly believe, that Emiri was involved in creating Ranger. We also have no reason to believe Emiri is the speaker. I don't think any of this is strong evidence as I don't particularly believe it one way or another, but I wanted to throw some stuff out there for it anyways.

Next, the one everyone knows is the theory Gin is Emiri's child. The reasons I've seen include Gin's dad being an alcoholic might line up with Emiri's fiancé being driven mad, and Hiyori mentions that Gin's mom is still watching over him. Also... get this, they both have brown hair. Personally, this theory doesn't do it for me. I understand why people like it, and the Hiyori line is interesting. I can't think of any direct argument for or against this, other than it would be a little weird if the recruitment files just left out that Emiri had a whole kid. (Note: if anyone reading this has an argument for this theory I didn't mention, please comment! Same for the last one, let me know why you think it if I missed anything, which I'm sure I did).

With that explained, I'm going to start explaining my theories and ideas. First, I want to give my thoughts on the mysteries related to her that I put on the board. None of these are full theories nor do they have reasoning, it's just thoughts that have come up.

Person in her office: With zero evidence or strong belief either answer is true, maybe it's Hayasaka or Mishima. Hayasaka comes to mind because that's whose victim video is conveniently playing right in front of the glass where we see said person. If this is the case, maybe he is her fiancée. As for Mishima, maybe it could work into the missing head question if she's attaching him to a doll or something. If one of my predictions is right, I'm leaning far more towards Hayasaka.

Who she was talking to: No clue really. We can rule out Gashu and Ranger, and I would argue against it being Safalin just because they should have been able to recognize her voice. The speech pattern and general motivations do not line up with Hiyori. I also don't have much reason to believe it's Meister. I do want to point out this person is supposed to know more than Miley at least about floor three, as they are surprised she knows how the monitors work. Their personality is more cautious than Emiri's as they warn her not to speak too loudly in case someone is listening. The first part of their conversation sounds like Emiri believes they let them get away: Miley asks if they let them escape, the other person says "I apologize... The key that was here is..." and Miley responds with, "Gone? Sigh... Seriously, give it up." Really, it does sound like it could be Safalin. I just can't get past them not recognizing her voice and can't place a reason as to why we couldn't just know it was her from the beginning gameplay-wise.

Who her fiancé is: I don't know if this will end up being relevant and I think it's possible this was mentioned to serve as a future motivation for Miley. If it is someone important, Hayasaka is a fair guess.

Mishima's head: If anything, I think she has his collar or something like that. I'm more on the side of Kai bringing his head up to floor three for some reason or another. Perhaps it's possible Miley was on this floor searching for it, explaining why she knows how the monitors work, and maybe was done at the same time she gave Sara the papers.

I would like to throw a guess as to what Emiri's purpose in Asunaro is. I think she may create the actual dolls. For one, her whole introduction is literally us building a doll. If she is involved in the physical creation of the dolls, that could explain why she knows about Ranger's chip. Her being involved in Ranger's physical creation could explain her recruitment. If she was involved in his creation only to a physical extent, it would make sense why Safalin does not mention her when telling Rio about himself during the Liazer scene. There would be no reason for her to use her limited time to explain his physical being that has nothing to do with the real reason she revived him, to explain why his emotional state is what it is.

Now, here's my theory. I believe that if one of the floormasters turns on Asunaro, it's going to be Miley. I believe this for two reasons; a line that I believe hints at it and the fact she has motivation.

Starting with dialog hints, there's this piece of dialog I've always found interesting when Keiji suggests that someone from Asunaro is working against them from the inside out.

Sara

"One of the kidnappers... is our ally...?!

I have no proof that could fully deny it... but...!!"

Keiji

"Looks like you can't wrap your head around it."

Sara

"There are clearly some illogical aspects, so..."

Keiji

"Well, all that's just my hope, anyhow. / Could be interesting if Miley was related to this, though. Wahaha..."

To me, this line feels like foreshadowing. If not intentional, it doesn't make sense for Keiji to mention Miley here. Sure it could just be a joke, but I can't see what makes it funny enough to put in without further reasoning.

I know deleted scenes don't count as strong evidence, but I would like to mention this line from the deleted scene between Ranger and Shin:

Ranger

"...Anyway, Hoemi was too indulgent, letting you have such a dangerous item as an extra service... / Looking as if she's on the same side as you guys... Ahaha."

Once again, this dialog points towards Miley ultimately working with us.

As for motivation, Miley just has more reasons to turn on the organization than anyone else. Her file is so specific about tricking her, pulling her away from her life just as things were looking perfect. Michiru's file provides nothing of interest to her previous life that can serve as a big motivation for her to turn. Also, in terms of storytelling, Safalin does feel a bit too obvious to be fully with us and it just works as a better twist to be Miley in my opinion. I would also mention that Safalin has already helped us in many ways, we know most of what she's done. She doesn't seem to have many secrets or mysteries that we need to figure out. If we need a floormaster that will turn, which I don't think is unlikely, Miley has more reason to do so and could give us more answers than Safalin could at this point.

That's about all I have to say! This was my first time doing a post like this so let me know what you think, any questions, or if I got something wrong. If you have any requests, let me know and I can try and do the same for another character. I already have one in the works for Michiru :)

#character discussion #character theory #emiri harai #sue miley #your turn to die #yttd analysis

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