#by real deal i mean like endgame

[leesh]

these people saying harry’s about to return to tour with a wedding ring are so funny like they’ve been dating a few months and still in the honeymoon phase plus that man clearly has commitment issues i don’t think he’ll be wearing a ring too soon even if this relationship is the real deal

[bluebugjay]

A lot of people aren't vibing with Charles and Crystal's romance and honestly i think it's because it's not necessarily supposed to be a full-fledged, endgame romance.

I think it's written to be a fling.

Charles is a flirt; one of the first things he thinks about when Edwin tells him ghosts can't feel is that he would miss kissing, he says himself it's nice to be seen by someone his own age, he calls Crystal fit, etc. Assumably between cases he has a very small social circle of literally just Edwin so it makes sense that this girl who he gets on with and finds attractive immediately becomes a bit of a crush for him.

Then Crystal picks up on his flirting almost immediately, again they get on, etc. She says if he wasn't dead and she wasn't dealing with the aftermath of her toxic relationship with David he would be a good addition to her body count, i.e. just a fling. She doesn't say they'd date or she could fall for him just that they'd probably hook up.

Their first kiss happens when they're both dealing with some heavy stuff, Charles is angry, continuing to push down his trauma with his father and his past, Crystal is annoyed about not being any closer to getting her memories back whilst trying to deal with the trauma her last relationship caused her. They find comfort in each other in that moment. Crystal says she wants something real and the care they have for each other is real, there's no manipulation, no secrets. It's honest and it's innocent.

The song that plays in that scene is called Young Blood (White Sea Remix) by The Naked and Famous and has lyrics such as 'we're only young and naive still' and 'can't help myself but count the flaws, claw my way out of these walls, one temporary escape' and 'we lie beneath the stars at night, our hands gripping each other tight, you keep my secrets hope to die' - It does align with the idea that they're what each other wants in the moment, a distraction, to be able to pretend everything is normal and ok (keep each others secrets)

Crystal in the next episode, the next morning after their kiss, literally calls Charles a 'cute distraction' and says they should be friends. This time both of their issues and trauma are the reason for them not continuing the relationship. Blatantly, Crystal isn't ready for another relationship so soon after David, she wakes up with a nightmare about him and Charles. They bring up Charles fighting the Night Nurse and Charles says that he thought they were on the same page about it and 'at least that's how it seemed last night' which again leans into the fact they were both looking for comfort. Charles and Crystal kissing had nothing explicitly to do with her supporting his actions fighting the Night Nurse and yet that's how he took it because that's what he was searching for comfort from and acceptance on. Which is most likely why he seems to take the rejection harder than Crystal, seemingly agreeing to be friends more out of respect for her choice than the want to call it quits himself.

Charles tells Edwin later on about the kiss (right after Edwin is complaining about having to cancel plans with Monty) and says though he didn't physically feel it, he did feel it 'up here' and points to his head. The mind is generally not the place you feel love, I feel that's a given. (reminds me of the starfish on the beach that Niko says are in love, Edwin points out starfish have no brain and Niko says love doesn't require logic, meaning: love is not stored in the mind.) Charles and Edwin's conversation veers off to being about there own relationship, with Charles saying he wouldn't want to be dead with anyone else - not even the girl you just kissed? No? Ok.

The way that episode goes (The case of the two dead dragons) Crystal and Charles end up arguing about the very reasons they decided to not continue their relationship. Crystal likens Hunter and Brad to David, and Charles defends them saying not everyone is her demon ex-boyfriend which seems like he's projecting and really defending himself. Then Crystal calls him out on his 'rage problem' and what happened with the Night Nurse. So though they comforted each other the night before, their real feelings for each others issues are surfacing and they're not so on the same page. Of course they get over this and apologise soon enough. Though in the end, it's Edwin Charles opens up to and actually talks to about how he's feeling rather than pushing it aside and looking for a distraction. And after that, Charles gives Crystal genuine comfort not just a distraction by listening to her talk about her nightmares/visions about David. (immediately followed by the scene of Edwin and Monty on the swings in which Edwin suggests they don't see each other anymore, then back tracks, they kiss followed by rejection which definitely has... parallels)

After that, Crystal and Charles are still an obvious source of comfort for one another, they talk to each other about their stresses, they stick close together a lot of the time but there's nothing inherently romantic to their actions aside from the fact we know they have kissed which gives their actions a depth that, for example Edwin and Niko's don't, despite them also being affectionate and spending time together alone.

Then in the last episode as Crystal is attempting to leave for London, her and Charles share another kiss. When she tries to say bye to Charles, he says it feels like a 'good-bye good-bye' rather than a 'see you back in London good-bye' and Crystal doesn't correct him, essentially confirming it was supposed to be a forever goodbye. She instead kisses him. It's a good-bye kiss. A (supposed to be) final kiss. A 'we had a good run' type of kiss. Crystal kisses him because she thinks she'll never see him again. It's similar to the first in which the kiss itself is the beginning and end, and it doesn't mean much past that. It's a kiss as a secret again, like their first kiss. A kiss to fill the space left by things they don't want to talk about. She doesn't want to admit she's planning on leaving for good so she kisses him instead, it's a comfort and it's a distraction. (and its consistent)

When Crystal decides to stay in the end, Charles says it'll be great, then specifies that 'solving cases together' will be great, not anything else that could of implied. Which could either be them just being awkward, or a flip in their dynamic that now Crystal is the one more involved in their relationship and Charles is the one setting boundaries.

Overall I think they have a really interesting dynamic. They are exactly what each other needs in moments and then the opposite in the next, they care about each other so much yet are possibly the people that unearth each others insecurities and traumas the most. They're both looking for a new, different kind of relationship and find it within the other but inherently once the novelty fades they fall more into being friends than anything more. I think like most of the relationships in this show, they're supposed to be complicated, they're supposed to be more of a journey than a destination. They learn and grow from their interactions together and I think that's something really beautiful.

[imaginaryf1shots]

Good Enough | Fernando Alonso

WC: 1.7K

Fernando x GF!Reader

Summery: "I don't care who you are, where you're from, what you did, as long as you love me." + "Am I interrupting something?" "No." "Yes."

Warning: Self doubt, insecurities

Part of the 1K Celebration

Masterlist

Fernando Masterlist

This wasn't the plan, it just kind of happened, how did you get here? That's the million dollar question. You're just a normal girl, living a normal life, working a normal job in retail. But somehow, somewhere you met Fernando, and asked you out on a date, you said yes. I mean who wouldn't. You found out who he is a couple of dates in and told yourself that it wasn't a big deal. Since then you've been having this feeling that maybe it's best you end the relationship now. Yet every time you see him, you can't bring yourself to do it. You tried to do it over the phone and even that failed, just hearing him call you amor or princesa was enough for you to change your mind. For a moment. So here you are now, happy when you're with him but unhappy the moment you get a moment to think too much.

Fernando is a loving guy, he's had many relationships in his life. The feeling he got when he first saw you was different from what he's felt before. It's more intense, more consuming, more... forever? He feels like you're in an endgame and maybe the relationship is too new for him to say that but he's old enough to know what's real and what he's made up in his mind. And when Fernando loves, he really loves, he just wants to take care of you, love you and never see you sad.

So you can understand why seeing you frown as you were alone waiting for him to come back from the bathroom in the restaurant, makes his heart clench. The switch that happens when your eyes fall on him is startling. The smile looks genuine, real.

"Are you alright?" Fernando asked once he's back sitting in front of you, you raise an eyebrow in question, confused. "Are you okay?"

"Yeah, why?" You take a sip from your drink, Fernando shrugs.

"Just making sure." You take his hand and give it a squeeze, he knows you're not telling the truth but decides to just let it go for now. Maybe it's a one time thing, or he's thinking too much about it.

"- and then I told her it was not happening." You and Fernando laugh as you finish telling him a story about one of your customers. You're at his house enjoying a day in, having the complete privacy to be yourselves. Just relaxing, in your lounge clothes, the movie you had on the TV paused as you started talking mid-way through it. The doorbell rings, bringing the moment to an end.

"Must be the food." Fernando says and goes to open the door. You lean back in the sofa and sigh, feeling happy, before your thoughts take the usual turn and it begins to wonder, Fernando and you are still private, and rightfully so, your relationship is still young. But it didn't stop the dread that always creeps in when you're least expecting it, as if your relationship that barely just started is about to end, like it's inevitable. You bit your bottom lip and your brows quirk a bit.

"y/n." You look and see Fernando frowning as he looks at you.

"Yes." You answer with a smile, all your thoughts are gone right now, you're back to your happy self. Fernando was calling you for a while before you heard him, he placed the food on the coffee table. “I was calling you."

“Sorry, I was lost in thought." You said and opened the bags taking the food out, setting it down. "This smells so good."

Fernando sits next to you and stops your hands from moving, taking them in his, you look up confused. "What's up?"

"Are you okay?" Fernando asks, taking every part of you in.

"Yeah, I'm alright, super hungry though." You give him one of your smiles that melts his heart and confuses him at the same time.

Fernando finally manages to convince you to go to a race with him, it took him a long time for you to agree to let him fly you out, you'll be staying in his hotel room so no extra cost there. Just the cost for the flight had you worried. But Fernando is persistent, when he wants something he sure does everything he can to get it.

The hotel Aston Martin booked in for the week had most of the grid booked in. It was filled with drivers, wherever you turned you saw one, it was all so new to you, so you stuck with Fernando the whole time, as much as you could anyway.

It was Thursday night, you and Fernando were back from a team dinner. In the lobby he was pulled to the side by a team member, you sat on one of the comfy chairs they had placed there. Looking around at the lavish hotel, it makes you feel even worse. You're not made for this lifestyle, it was hard getting two days off to come to the race, and it'll only become harder. But how can the relationship develop more if you don't meet.

"Amor." Fernando sits next to you, you blink and look at him, seeing the look on his face, your smile that you just plastered falls.

"What? Is something wrong?"

"Yes."

"What? What's wrong? Did something happen." Your eyes are filled with worry, as you take the man you're grown attached to with attentive eyes, your heart dropped, thinking that maybe you were right after all, and that Fernando also agrees with it, and that he's about to break up with you. he too thinks that you're not good enough, that you're merely a-

"You tell me." You blink at his words confused, as he brings you out of your thoughts, did you miss something he said?

"W-What?"

"You tell me what's wrong." Fernando explains and you grow even more perplexed.

"Nando." You say dragging the 'O' a bit. "I don't understand."

"You're upset." He says simply.

"No, I'm not." You say with a bit of agitation in your voice.

"Amor, I see when you're sitting alone, you're always frowning. Something is bothering you and you've been hiding it from me." Fernando says and it dawns on you, he's talking about all the times you got lost in thought. Guilt starts eating at you, here he is caring about you and you're thinking about him leaving you. Maybe you should leave him, you're already causing trouble and it's not even a year yet. "y/n, please, just talk to me."

"I'm sorry." Your voice sounds so small even to your ears, tears gather in your eyes, Fernando sighs and pulls on your hands, wanting to bring you close.

"I don't want you to apologise, I just want to know what's wrong, so I can help you." Fernando whispers and you open your mouth ready to say that nothing is wrong. "Don't just say what you think I want to hear, tell me the truth, what you're really feeling."

"Nando." You mumble his tone and look up at him, your shoulders sagging, your lips quiver, Fernando cups your face, his hand providing you with comfort that you desperately needed right now.

"Come on." He pulls you up, and looks around before he pulls you into the emergency stairwell, where you'll have more privacy. "Now please just tell me."

"I uh, I just, I don't." You try to say but the words aren't coming out, Fernando gives your hand a squeeze, taking a deep breath you say. "I just feel like maybe you're better off with someone else, like maybe- no, I know I'm not good enough for you, that you'll get bored of me easily, I haven't lived the life you did, haven't done half of what you've done, I've barely been out of the country. It all scares me."

"Why does it scare you?" Fernando lets you say what you want then he'll circle back and talk you through all your thoughts.

"I'm scared because I like you, and I'm getting more attached to you, and when you leave me I'll be alone." You mumble your eyes not meeting his as you expose your inner thoughts to him, the thoughts that have been plaguing your thoughts for so long.

"And believe me when I say, I'm also very attached to you." Fernando says pointedly, he hates the thought of you doubting him, doubting this relationship. It kills him inside, he thought you had a good thing going on. "I find you incredibly smart, sweet, the kindest person I have ever met and unbelievably attractive."

"But-"

"I'm not done yet." Fernando says and puts a finger on your lips to stop you from talking. "Have I done anything that would make you believe I don't care about you?" You shake your head no. "Have I said anything?" Again no. "Okay so that means I feel like we're a good fit, y/n, amor, please believe me when I say I don't care, I don't care who you are, where you're from, what you did, as long as you love me... do you?"

"What?" Your eyes are wide as you stare at Fernando, you've moved closer, when? You don't know. You're both standing chest to chest, only a small space between the two of you.

"Do you love me? Like I love you." Your eyes welled up and you nod.

"Yes, I love you so much Fernando, so much." You say and Fernando smiles before he leans in and presses his lips to yours. You gasp which gives him access to your mouth, you moan lightly and wrap your arms around his neck. Just as you were getting more into it the door opened and you both pulled away, if it wasn't obvious what was going on the blush on your face is a clear indication.

"Sorry, am I interrupting something?" A smirking Lewis says.

"No." "Yes." You and Fernando say at the same time, you look at each other before you look back at the Mercedes driver.

"Well, since this one is occupied I'll go find another one." Lewis says and it's only then that you notice he has a woman with him, he sends you both one last knowing and smug look before he leaves.

"That was... something." You say and run your hand through your hair, trying to gather yourself.

"It was, don't bother with your hair, it'll only get wilder." Fernando said and pulled you out of the stairwell and to the elevator, his hands were all over you. By the time you reach your room, you're a giggling, hot mess.

[eyecan02]

Alastor Analysis

Alastor's background regarding romance and sexuality goes all the way back to early drawings that depict Alastor crushing on Kay-cee.

The story then moves on from a crush on Kay-cee to a full on relationship with Mimzy.

It makes me wonder how Viv jumped from Alastor in a relationship to Alastor being ace. It feels like quite a wide leap. With Viv being the creator, I have nothing but respect for her but I feel like Alastor can still love/possibly do sexual acts while still keeping in character and looking out for #1.

I feel like while Alastor was alive, he leaned toward graysexual and this is why. I don't believe this man died a virgin. As we all know Alastor is from the 20s. He's in his late 30s/40s, meaning that it would've been uncommon for a man his age to still be unwed/unattached to someone. I'm sure he went on blind dates set up by his mom, and even occasionally slept with women in order to keep up appearances. He most likely did this in order to make his mother happy since any mother would've liked to have seen their child happily married.

And after Alastor became an overlord, the occasional sex probably didn't stop there, because Alastor is all about about keeping up appearances and deals. He definitely comes off as someone who would use sex as a means to and end. If a woman wanted to trade their soul in exchange for Alastor's protection and one night with him, I feel like Alastor wouldn't turn her down. It would be a decision that would end up leading to an increase in power for him. He just likely wouldn't kiss during the act.

Now finally onto Alastor's relationship with Charlie. From the beginning, we've all known that Alastor has his own agenda and reasons for involving himself with Charlie. He's a master of manipulation, knowing love is a powerful motivator (the way he manipulates Vaggie by making her feel bad about Charlie and the commercial) and also digging into Charlie's daddy issues.

It was clear that Alastor tried to play the boyfriend card to piss off Luci. It was only after Charlie introduced Vaggie that Alastor changed tactics and switched to the daddy card.

This means that Alastor would be willing to play any role to get what he wants from Charlie, whether the endgame is obtaining her soul or becoming her royal advisor or whatever. If Vaggie had been introduced in the pilot as a mere crush, Alastor would've caught onto the daddy issues quick and would've angled for a romantic role in Charlie's life since love and sex would be easy things for Alastor to manipulate (if my theory is right about him using sex as a means to an end).

I feel like this kind of materializes during the pilot with the way Alastor keeps pushing Vaggie out of the way, and how Vaggie seems jealous whenever Alastor impresses Charlie.

We don't know if this weird competition for Charlie's attention will persist between them as the series goes on considering that behavior was absent in season one. What's interesting is that the jealousy aspect switched from Vaggie to Alastor. The second Luci hugged Charlie, we're shown Alastor looking maliciously at Luci with his eye twitching in irritation.

What do we know about Alastor so far? He's an attention whore . He's used to being one of the strongest demon lords (at least from the pride ring) so suddenly not having attention, particularly Charlie's attention is making him act nuttier than usual.

Usually, it's hard for someone to be jealous without at least having some feelings toward the one they're feeling jealousy over. "Ah, an enjoyable collective to be around. I admit that one could get accustomed." This line is for the entire Hazbin gang, but also a real sign he cares for Charlie.

He can still have his own hidden agenda while caring about Charlie and being attracted to her. And he definitely is attracted to her. Calls her "charming and adorable". The constant touching.

Some might argue that that's just a part of Alastor's power play/dominance but he already knows that those types of moves don't intimidate Charlie. In fact, she never seems bothered at all when Alastor tries physically to get closer to her.

Also, the animators placing Alastor in Charlie's bed with both of them on a HEART pillow is insane. They know what they were doing. We see the way Alastor's hands possessively spider crawl up Charlie's shoulders and the way he grips her face.

And by the looks of it, Alastor seems to lust after Charlie's soul almost as much as his freedom. Viv has said that Alastor can't love anyone because he loves himself too much. Yet, she has also described Charlie as "Alastor's mirror".

The fact that they even made Charlie's color palette similar to Alastor's. Her hot pink jacket is almost a reddish color and they both wear bow ties. If Charlie is a reflection of Alastor then wouldn't that mean he does technically love himself by loving Charlie? He could be Charliesexual.

Not saying Viv will change her mind. She already chose her endgame. BUT what if Prime and Viv compromise and we get to have one sided Charlastor where Alastor admits to someone or even directly confesses his romantic love to Charlie herself (without actually trying to steal her from Vaggie)?

[tocomplainfriend]

HAZBIN AND SA (+HB)

TW: SA and RAPE

THIS ITSELF DOESN'T TALK ABOUT THE SCENE! But the surrounding context.

So I really hate everything about how this has being treated. I am a SA victim and wanna talk about some stuff. If you didn't know, in episode 4 (I think) there is an exploration of Angel Dust SA, before going to do that lets see some stuff first:

She made a "cumming" joke about the song Poison (that accompanies the SA scenes)

This person over here worked on HH/HB (draws r-pe/non-con)

BLURRED AND CUTTED IMAGES: (Some are more or less explicit)

You know, that whole thing of shipping, and drawing porn of the canonical sexual abuser with the victim?

They also left this comment, under a comic where Val threatens brutal r-pe on Angel.

This person also worked in/directed the scenes of Angel dust Sexual abuse in the episode. The person that ships a r-pe ship and does all this shit is the one to work in this scene?????

ALSO????

Like??????? What happen here?

Also...

(The pinkie pfp person is 15 here too)

Why does Angel sexually harrases Husk non-stop (which is acknowledged by Vaggie)? Why is Moxxie SA by the succubus played for laughs? Same with Chaz or Blitz harassing him sexually or touching him without consent? Why did Stolas do so many unwanted advances towards Blitz, and that's literally the endgame couple of the show? (All of this are jokes, or by the Husk x Angel shit "ship moments"

WHY THIS TOO?

And yes you are "correct", something like Hypersexuality Trauma-should not being shamed. You are not a bad person, for dealing with this. BUT HEY, that doesn't mean you get to sexually harass people like Angel does to Husk or anyone.

Also, the problem is not having an SA victim's story. The problem is how it is treated and all the context that surrounds it. All of this above is that context! Why is so much SA jokes in Helluva? Why is that funny? You want to tell a story of SA, and anyone calling out the problems with it is deleting victims feelings and stories... YOU AND YOUR STUPID FUCKING JOKES DO THAT ALREADY. WHEN SA IS A JOKE FOR YOU, YOU ARE DIMINISHING SA AND R-PE.

There are also a lot of random fans saying that "Viv is an SA victim too"- #1 Where the fuck did she say that, cause you randomly saying that she said it doesn't mean shit. #2 DOESN'T DELETE THE WAY SA HAS BEING TREATED! THIS IS NOT EVEN CLOSE TO MAKING A JOKE AS AN SA VICTIM ABOUT YOURSELF- SHE/AND OTHER IN THE TEAM ARE WRITING CHARACTERS GETTING SEXUALLY ASSAULTED AS THE JOKE. -OR NOT UNDERSTAND LEGIT POWER DYNAMICS AND THE GROSS THING THAT STOLAS DOES TO BLITZ. OR THE LITERAL "SHIP COMPILATION" THAT IS PURELY ANGEL SEXUALLY HARASSING HUSK.

"Is important to represent SA survivors stories- specially men who-" BROTHER ALL YOUR OTHER MALE CHARACTERS SEXUALLY HARRASS/ASSAULT OTHERS AS A JOKEEEE. "They are in hell" BITCH A HUMAN, A REAL PERSON WORKING ON THE SHOW WROTE hahaha Moxxie gets violated by the succubus so funny lol. IT'S NOT "LOONA IS A BAD PERSON FROM HELL THAT'S WHY SHE MADE FAT JOKES AT MOXXIE" NO IT'S WRITTEN AS IF THE SA WAS FUNNY IN ITSELF!

This is also not a scenario where there was a realization of the problems in HB with all those jokes and the harassment, so it was trying to be fixed with a serious story in hazbin. NO, THAT'S NOT IT!!!!

If there was an apology of how the sexual assault was treated in previous works! "We'll make up for it!" (the fact of that was a thing in the first place, it's still bad). That would be a little different. BUT NO, IT'S NOT! IT'S HYPOCRITICAL AND GARBAGE BULLSHIT.

I think purely by the context already given here that I think the representation it's bad. I don't feel like it comes from a good place, due to the hypocritical shit, the comments, and the artist who directed it.

We could go really back and forth with the direct scenes of the episode. BUT THIS IS ABOUT THE CONTEXT SURROUND IT rather than the scenes themselves. (Which is partly connected to the fact that it's incomplete)

Here is the scene "Tuca and Bertie". Is Bertie telling her friend of her assault. It's amazingly respectful and well written. It's not graphic, and tells the story really well.

[thewertsearch]

TT: It reminds me of when Dave and I were trapped in the doomed timeline, and he left to change the past. TT: The timeline ceased to exist, along with my dream self, who in a way became merged with my dream self of this timeline. I kept some of her memories. TT: Is the situation similar? Similar, but more severe. Since this timeline will undergo such a violent upheaval, such a merger of memory cannot happen.

Unlike Future Rose, we're not merely fleeing a doomed timeline - we're resetting the timeline, the real deal.

If you squint, it kind of looks like the Davesprite situation, but the rules are completely different. This isn't a rewind, it's a reboot, complete with entirely new incarnations of John, Rose, Dave and Jade.

It doesn't sound like the original Players are supposed to survive the process - but if you pay attention to Scratch's phrasing, he doesn't actually confirm that it's impossible. He asserts that this type of memory preservation is impossible, but that doesn't mean there's no way for the kids to reach the reboot. I strongly believe that our endgame here will feature both iterations of the kids, allowing us to develop their personalities from two completely different angles.

I'd love to speculate about what Scratched!John and his team will be like, but I don't want another theory that's dead on-arrival. Let's wait and see if Rose learns anything more about the reboot first.

TT: So if the Scratch isn't specifically meant to banish Jack from the session, TT: And our quest to destroy the sun is meant to kill him, TT: Why is the reset necessary at all, especially if it means oblivion for us? Because you cannot achieve the ultimate reward in this session. […] Don't you want to fulfill your purpose?

Whether they should actually want to make a universe isn’t exactly a trivial question. Rose is a little too emotionally compromised to consider it, but I’m not.

For starters, what if their universe is an awful place? Alternia is proof that Sburb's universes can be complete dystopias. We have no idea if Alternia's creators intended for the Empire to exist, but the fact that it's even possible should make any Sburb Player very, very nervous about releasing a new Genesis Frog into the cosmos, lest it become another host for an intergalactic empire.

I suppose the question is kind of moot. The kids still need somewhere to live after the session, and I doubt their own universe is still an option. Their planet certainly isn’t.

[…] if you are inventive, you may find a way to survive the reset and participate in the renewed session. It's up to you.

...hmm.

Do you think the effects of the Scratch extend into the Furthest Ring? Surely not, right? Surely they're localized to the session in which the Scratch was triggered, lest a Scratch reset the entire multiverse.

Could it really be that easy? I guess it would normally be dangerous to enter the domain of the Gods unprotected, but Feferi's alliance should keep them safe. Plus, Rose has an accord with them herself. This feels workable to me - provided the Gods are willing to let our heroes influence the reboot.

[robynrocksforbrains]

I love you ×9

Ok so I am probably not the first person to notice this or point it out since I've only been a byler for like six months... BUT I did maybe go a little crazy about this. So I'm gonna talk about it.

So a few days ago I was thinking about the mlvn endgame argument "well Mike said 'I love you' nine times". And like, first of all, saying "I love you" doesn't undo a year's worth of deliberate lying and miscommunication. That's not how relationships work. Their issues are still very much real and very much not going anywhere because they're not even TRYING to do anything about them. But also... I was thinking: why nine times? Why that number specifically? Was it just random? Is there maybe anything to indicate that nine is significant? Is there maybe a scene in the first episode of s4 that tells us how we should react to the monologue?

So, the DND basketball montage. Great stuff. Amazing foreshadowing. Everyone loved it.

I got to thinking about it. Decided I needed to know what Mike's roll was. I kinda spiraled about it on twitter because I could not see it clearly and I couldn't tell if it was an eight or nine. Desperate times called for desperate measures so I recorded my tablet with my phone and found the perfect frame.

IT'S A NINE

CLEAR AS DAY! IT'S A NINE! GREATEST DAY OF MY LIFE!!

Anyway, I don't know how DND works. I don't know why this roll evoked the reaction it did from the party - most significantly, Mike's very disgruntled reaction (I don't mean The Party™ I just mean literally the party that is playing this campaign) I genuinely don't know what the fuck is going on in this game. But what I do know is they wanted us to associate this roll with failure. That's why it corresponds with a missed basket in the basketball game. That's why Eddie gets this ooo that sucks for you guys look on his face. That's why we hear a chorus of "nooo" from the party. That's why Mike says "no no no" and looks extremely upset. I don't know anything about DND, but I can read context clues.

So I'm not going to try to understand what's going on in the game, I'm just gonna go off what I think they wanted us to subconsciously pick up on.

So they show us all of this. They associate Mike with the number nine in the first episode and then that number shows up AGAIN in the last episode.

The monologue cannot be associated with anything but failure. Whether that be mlvns failing relationship, or their very real failure to save Max (at least before El revived her), and their failure to save Hawkins. The monologue does not stand apart from that. It is completely interwoven with these failures. If you have average media literacy, you know that. Even before I was aware of just how important byler is to this entire story, before I was aware that they've been setting up byler endgame since day one, you would never catch me thinking that the monologue was supposed to be received positively by the audience. You would never catch me saying mlvns love saved the world. (Although that's because I genuinely forgot about mlvn a few weeks after I watched s4). I think I received the monologue in the way it was intended to be received. I didn't fully understand it, or why they would execute it the way they did, but I still received it in the way I believe it was intended to be.

So I know the general agreement among bylers is that the monologue kinda sealed the deal for mlvn bones. Like I'm not saying anything new really. But I genuinely do think that Mike's roll in episode one, the reactions to it, and the missed shot it corresponds with were meant to foreshadow the monologue and how they wanted the audience to receive it.

This is fiction, everything means something. Everything is thought of. The timer (and maybe scores, I genuinely can't remember) in the basketball game had significance. Other rolls in the DND game had significance. Why would that be any different for Mike? Especially when his roll was a nine and that number shows up for him again when he says "I love you" nine times. And both of these things are associated with failure.

Not that we need any other reason to interpret the monologue as a less than good thing. It's just the way that it is, it's pretty easy to figure out how they wanted us to take it. But they still did give us a hint. I think it's really cool.

[melrosing]

I’m sure you’ve talked about this before but tumblr’s search function is ass 😭 what’s your endgame prediction for Jaime esp in light of the show? I think Jaime is def fighting the others as hinted in his weirwood dream. But the way got ended doesn’t feel right to me. On Reddit everyone’s saying it makes no sense so it has to be a bad adaptation of what GRRM told them but idk I don’t buy it. Especially since it seems like Cersei replaced young griff’s role

i have talked about it before but even i can't find it ha so i don't mind talking about it again however.... my thoughts on this are vague. longwinded post ahead which is more thought starters than anything definitive.

to briefly address the show ending... I mean it's literally impossible for Jaime's story to end like that, because we know that Cersei's can't end that way. Cersei is going to be murdered by the valonqar, whoever that turns out to be. and even apart from that, the book version of the twins are so done romantically. sure, there are the barest vestiges of that connection in Jaime's ADWD chapter ('back to Cersei, another part of him whispered'), but ASOS/AFFC otherwise make for an extremely thorough deconstruction of that relationship that ends with Jaime leaving Cersei for dead and wandering off the grid with Brienne. like.... GRRM didn't write all that for nothing. and sure, some people still think he might still bounce back to her in some way or another, but generally i have found.... that those theories don't tend to accompany the strongest takes on jaime's character dhjkls

for the same reason, I don't really know where this leaves us wrt the valonqar prophecy. if Jaime were still preoccupied with Cersei's cheating, he would've acted on it by now. Tyrion thinks in ACOK that if Jaime ever found out about Lancel, he'd have killed the kid himself. Jaime in AFFC suggests Lancel eat something and go to therapy. Jaime himself imagines in AFFC scenarios where he exacts revenge on the Kettleblacks and Cersei herself, and yet given the opportunity to do so.... he wanders off in the opposite direction.

the reason being that the connection Jaime once felt to Cersei has died. that bond was his reason for living, for doing anything at all - and now it's not enough for him to even stick around long enough to see what's happened to her in KL, never mind return to her side to exact revenge on her himself. in practise, he doesn't harbour the kind of action and rage he dreams about, or claims to Ilyn Payne. it's the same as how he claims he's Tywin's heir, and then keeps letting people off the hook t any given opportunity. like for all Jaime knows, he could die fighting """"the Hound"""", and never see Cersei again, and that's apparently just fine. the opposite of love isn't hate it's indifference etc. and no I don't think Jaime will ever feel truly indifferent to Cersei - she is his twin, the mother of his children, and the woman he has loved all his life. but I think it's entirely fair to say that the extremes of love and hate he felt within the context of their romance are gone, because the romance itself has gone. Jaime's feelings towards Cersei exist outside of that now.

returning to the valonqar prophecy. I don't think it's necessarily guaranteed that Jaime the valonqar, but I do think it would be myopic to claim that he isn't a real possibility. and since Cersei's end has to factor into what Jaime's is or isn't in some kind of way, I'll suppose that he is the valonqar for the sake of this post. it's not written, so I can't say how exactly I'll end up feeling about its execution, but per the previous paragraph, I don't imagine this will have anything to do with the 'Moonboy for all I know' shit. that was for AFFC. that was building to Jaime burning her letter. Jaime in TWOW is going to have left much of that behind, bc frankly he'll have other stuff to worry about.

but we know that Cersei will be dealing w wildfire (apart from what happens in the show, this is one of the most heavily foreshadowed events in the book), and whilst it's not clear when or why she'll use it, it seems like a natural site for the valonqar prophecy to come true, in whatever way it does. and Jaime has been here before w Aerys etc, this has perturbed him in other Cersei x wildfire scenes in AFFC, so it seems it's a likely full circle moment. potentially Tommen's life is wrapped up in this too - I think it's also foreshadowed that Cersei (I assume accidentally) will manage to kill Tommen in the wildfire blast as well. so like, sure, ig that would set the scene for valonqar Jaime. I've never really liked this prophecy for a whole host of reasons, but the idea of spurned lover Jaime tramping back to KL to kill Cersei over Moonboy is uh. ??? yeah im not worried about that

[as for the more sensitive implications of Jaime being the valonqar as Cersei's ex lover, which I believe exist regardless of whether the act is about Moonboy or not: I think that's an important conversation to be had, but not one I feel effectively able to have until we have the scene itself. so whilst i want to acknowledge that context, I've found that conversations aren't often productive when participants are each imagining a different version of the scene in their minds]

then we're just left to contemplate where exactly any of this comes in the broader picture of TWOW/ADOS. if it is (per the show) effectively the last act of the series, then idk. maybe Jaime dies in Cersei's wildfire/the general pyre that is KL by this point idk?? like ok sure. he saved the city once but he couldn't save it this time etc.

however I tend to believe that TLN will follow what happens in KL, or in the very least will follow Cersei's death. i'm never certain of this, but if not, it leaves you wondering what exactly Cersei, Aegon, Arianne, Joncon etc are even doing in the south throughout all this. like. carrying on as normal?? do they even notice TLN?? winter is setting in everywhere.

and I do fully believe Jaime will fight in TLN per the weirwood dream, widow's wail etc. Jaime's story is a redemption arc (whether ppl like that term or not, GRRM uses it himself), and fighting in TLN is a natural conclusion to Jaime's pivot to the pursuit of honour, and his arc's own gradual turn towards the northern storyline. Jaime's story has always been about leaving behind loyalty to individuals and institutions, and instead fighting for causes he believes in, according to his own set of values. there's also the fact that he has to attain widow's wail somehow (which i'm certain he will), and as it is currently in KL.... it seems reasonable to assume that Jaime will be stopping by KL before he moves north again. this could be a tenuous assumption or it could be entirely correct, guess we'll see. but whatever

so if TLN is the final act of the series, then Jaime either dies in TLN (fine), or possibly even survives the series (though on this I always hedge my optimism). survival possibilities include becoming Hand or a KG to Bran, joining the Night's Watch, becoming a hedge knight, literally whatever. I like the idea that he stays with Brienne whatever ends up happening, but if it's some bittersweet long distance shit then sure whatever that's workable. however i do prefer to just assume he'll die for my own sake xo

[sufferu]

What do you think of the recent discussions in jp about otto "natsuki-san is a human and not just a hero so i will stand in his way" suwen vs julius "subaru is a prospective hero so i will support him and his choices" euclius?

I got the feeling that currently both of them puts subaru in a pedestal and not seeing him for who he really is, julius is biased because he sees the ideals he admires in subaru and otto is biased because he sees both subaru and julius as "pure"

I also think it's funny how even male jp readers of wn rezero are more interested in otto and julius fight over subaru rather than a potential emilia vs rem lol

I mean, the Emilia vs Rem deal is pretty much settled, ain’t it? I don’t even say this as a huge Emisuba fan, but like — everything is pointing to them being…at least the most LIKELY endgame pairing, and there’s been an awful lot of foreshadowing about a “polygamy == bad” message (Subaru being referred to (lightheartedly, but also somewhat seriously) as scum for stringing two girls along, Emilia directly turning to the audience and saying that she hates the idea of a polygamous relationship, the country that is literally the antithesis of the narrative giving its Emperor a harem, and probably more stuff I can’t think of right now).

And also — honestly I find (canon) Remsuba more interesting than Emisuba in a lot of ways, because I’m a sucker for really fucked up relationships in stories, but like. Them actually getting together at the end of Re:Zero would trample over all the most interesting parts of their dynamic that have been getting set up bf for the past…god, six, seven arcs? (Seriously my only real complaints have to do with how I feel the FANDOM brushes past a lot of their most fascinating elements, which is not the story’s fault lmao)

As for Otto and Julius…

Honestly I don’t think there’s enough to go on right now, but I do think it is worth keeping an eye on. Julius seeing Subaru as an upcoming hero, particularly, should be seen as…at least a little concerning, because this is not a story that uses “hero” as a compliment. It should also be noted that Julius is a complete dork and canonically a sucker for fairytales, which is likely coloring his perspective. And Otto…is really fucked up actually, and I’m excited to see where that goes.

[acourtofthought]

Some on the other side seem to have misunderstood my post from yesterday.

If Elain wants to reject the bond then it's fine. Rejecting her bond doesn't make her weak, it's her right to do so and a reader can support that decision, can even applaud it.

However Elain hasn't rejected her bond. She hasn't had a book which means you don't know who her endgame person is. Because of that she's has not defied fate yet some are acting like she already has. Lucien is still her mate, she's his and there is not a single character in the ACOTAR that believes them to have a rejected bond.

Some are applauding Elain during Elain Week, a week to to celebrate her character, for something she hasn't even done. For a Fated Mates author, chances are strong she never will. I'll say it again, if some still think Elucien can't be endgame despite their current setup, I'd like to point you in the direction of 99.9999% of other Fated Mates stories.

Elain is currently hiding from her bond, from Lucien. That is not Strength or Bravery, it's Elain being afraid. Afraid of how it makes her feel, afraid of how fate decided something for her, afraid of something else, take your pick. She's currently avoiding having a real conversation with Lucien which yes, she owes him. Throw your real world opinions of "women don't owe men an explanation!" out the window because this isn't your real life. This isn't nice guy Tommy from down the street who isn't taking the hint of your disinterest.

This is a novel and Elain and Lucien were given a connection that you will never see in your lifetime, a magical link to the other ones soul.

She does owe him an explanation and a decision on what she wants or doesn't want from him. Don't like it? Take it up with the author who wrote the rules of her fantasy world. Her ignoring Lucien is not enough for a character with a magical connection to her to "take the hint and move on".

Sarah is the one who wrote Elain hiding from her bond and the others acknowledging it as the elephant in the room. She is the one who wrote Elain as refusing to say to Lucien "I don't want you and I want him instead".

That would be Elain showing bravery. Vocalizing to her Mate what she wants, not her sister while she was still mourning her fiance and after Feyre made a comment about entitlement. Of course she doesn't owe Lucien her time, he doesn't feel she does. Yet she continues quietly taking his gifts (a little odd right? Accepting gifts from a mate you don't want anything to do with?) stashing them god knows where and allowing him to suffer rather than having a conversation with him about no longer holding out hope for her, for them.

Elain is good and kind, she is loving. Yet some honestly believe she's just heartlessly and needlessly allowing Lucien to keep coming around for no reason at all since they believe it's a done deal. She doesn't want him, will never want him, yet she somehow can't use her voice to say that. She had no issues speaking up to Nesta in SF, Sarah had no issues with writing a bonus showing Elain returning Az's gift yet Elain must have her own book and pov to reject her mate which she's apparently wanted to do for years now but just did not. Because it's somehow more girl boss that way?

Because she felt it was necessary to leave him with a glimmer of hope for two years by not rejecting him before that despite always knowing it's what she wanted?

The e/riel version of Elain being badass is not my Elain and not the Elain that Sarah has written.

Elain insisting they help Feyre help others was girl boss.

Elain standing up to Nesta in SF was girl boss.

Elain returning Az's necklace after he chose to call her a mistake was girl boss.

Elain refusing to look Lucien in the eye or have a conversation with him when she's supposed to be so confident that she doesn't want him makes her a bit of a coward right now.

[violetasteracademic]

Hi , I want to ask if you think Lucien was always meant to have a rejected mating bond with an Archeron sister ?

Hello lovely anon!

So.... this is a tough question to answer- because where does always begin in the writing process?

Does it begin in the first draft? Does it begin in the wild prophetic visions you have at three am that you want to scribble down but you don't because you are trying to sleep, but still, it lingers? Does it begin in a beat sheet, a plot outline, a Pinterest board?

I'm not sure if SJM always intended a rejected mating bond. To be completely honest, I go back and forth. I think that Sarah has let a lot of things slip that she wrote that were never going to even be submitted to her editor on a first draft (like the famed Nesta/Cassian/Azriel batwich, RIP and I'm still waiting on SJM to write a threesome). And yet when she shares those things, people almost consider it canon and analyze it to death and use it to prove certain things. At some point, she probably really genuinely considered making Lucien and one of the sisters a couple, but I can't say for sure where in the process that died.

I remember seeing Emily Henry share on her stories recently an addition to her "RIP" character list- as in characters that she had written that literally did not even make it into the book. The first draft of Beach Read was actually a love triangle, involving some local guy who owns an ice cream business or something of the sort who is also trying to romance January. I can see what she might have been trying to do there- give January two options reflecting two sides of her. Ice Cream Steve (not sure if those details are correct but we'll go with it) would have served as a perfect foil to Grave Digging, Bleak Literary Fiction Author Gus. But ultimately, Ice Cream Steve did not even make it to the book. Do we treat him as real? Do we wonder if he may have been a better fit for January? Do we analyze what this means for January and Gus?

I'll get a little bit into the technicality of what developmental editing is and how it can completely reshape a story, erase characters, create characters, and shift their storylines, but what I do know is this- the function of Lucien being assigned an Archeron sister, any Archeron sister, is completely clear: To win him over to the Night Court as an ally and embolden him to help Feyre get away from Tamlin. This is absolutely critical. Lucien's role in the story since this hasn't developed romantically because he is mated to one of the Archeron sisters, it has spun off in a new direction plot wise with the Band of Exiles, Vassa, Koschei, and the human queens- which also develops a tentative relationship between himself and his brother Eris again, with his mating bond hovering in the background. However, his mating bond began this new direction, and it wouldn't have existed without it:

Lucien would not have left if it were not for the mating bond. I believe that is the element that was always true. Lucien's mating bond, be it with Elain, or Nesta as originally planned, was always going to be a plot device. And I can answer where I believe the story of a love triangle at the very least began its groundwork- which is A Court of Mist and Fury. I personally think that as of publishing ACOMAF Lucien and Elain were already done, fizzling out in the developmental editing process, and Azriel and Elain were endgame, but I'm open to those who see it differently.

Before we move on, here are the different types of editors:

A development editor basically edits the story at large. They focus on elements like theme, character development, plot holes, ECT. When dealing with a series, often times an author will provide a detailed packet to their developmental editor before doing dev runs. This is because the developmental editor needs to understand where the story is headed. They need to understand what needs to be appropriately foreshadowed, what themes to highlight, and keep their eye on the big picture so that everything comes to a well developed, emotionally charged, and thematically satisfying conlcusion.

What is clear to me is that Azriel and Elain were being developed emotionally and thematically in ACOMAF:

These are the types of passages that focus on the big picture. Before Feyre's sisters have become Fae, Feyre is musing on what her sisters would be like in Velaris. She thinks about how Nesta would like it, despite herself, and become fast friends with Amren (true) and how Elain would like Velaris, but she would cling to Azriel for peace and quiet. True. Feyre considers how handsome Elain and Azriel would be together if he ever stopped loving Mor.

Developmentally- what is the purpose of this? It's the same book that Lucien and Elain's mating bond is revealed, so why muse on Elain and Azriel as a couple if Azriel could get over Mor, which he now has because of Elain? Meanwhile, Elain is engaged. Feyre doesn't say a word about that. She sees how her sister would want to be with someone like Azriel, and Feyre doesn't even think twice about Graysen because Azriel is right for her sister. This isn't Feyre being an unreliable narrator. Everything else in this passage came to be true.

These are the types of moments developmental editors hone in on to make sure theme and foreshadowing are strong and successful.

Of course this is already after the beautiful moments Azriel and Elain have together- Azriel getting shy and self conscious before dropping one of the most beautiful lines in all the books about being born hearing the song of the wind. Elain already being able to read Azriel- looking to him and smiling and finding comfort and assessing his countenance to see if everything is going okay.

If I'm a developmental editor, and I wanted it to be really clear why Lucien and Elain were right for each other- why would I keep all of this in? Why tie Elain and Azriel together thematically and emotionally? So again, this is where the question "where does always begin" comes into play. Did SJM realize in her first draft that Nesta and Lucien weren't going to work, so she switched to Elain, only to realize that Elain and Lucien don't have chemistry either? Was it after a developmental edit? I can't say for sure on that end. Maybe ACOMAF truly was just setting up a love triangle, but personally I think Elain and Az were always endgame as of the books being published, and trying to explore Elain and Lucien as a couple probably died out before the final draft of ACOMAF and SJM realized Lucien still needed to be mated to one of the sisters, thus ideas about the rejected mating bond started stirring instead and then were hit HARD in ACOWAR. I can see the argument that the door was being kept open for Lucien in ACOMAF, though I personally think Lucien's mating bond reveal was strictly a plot device. But what is extremely clear is that as of ACOWAR the path was set in stone.

Again- these are the things where, not to take credit away from Sarah, a developmental editor really comes into play. If Sarah is going, okay- who is Lucien going to end up with? Nesta? No, it can't be Nesta, even though that was originally the plan. Elain? Maybe, it could be Elain. What does that look like? Maybe it was Lucien and Elain in the pitch packet. Then a developmental editor goes, okay- where are we headed? What are the themes? What are the character arcs and growth we are looking for?

Then we move on to ACOWAR, and both of them were developed to have a theme of choice threaded into their interactions:

What these moments make clear is that the mating bond makes it impossible for Elain and Lucien to get what they truly want out of love with each other- for someone to love and choose them beyond the circumstances placed on them. Lucien wants this just as much as Elain does. They are now thematically connected in that way- in wanting to be chosen above all, despite everything. That's where this Facebook comment makes soooo much sense:

Nesta didn't have any growth or healing to offer Lucien, because thematically there was not really anything there between them. Nesta and Cassian also had this instant, intense connection that could not be ignored or played slowly. Nesta also didn't lose her fiance, she herself saying she had as little at stake in Velaris as she did on the other side of the wall. Nesta had anger and resentment. Elain had loss, which on the surface could thematically match Lucien, but then we dig deeper to learn that they aren't only needing to heal from the loss of love, they are needing to heal from the loss of choice.

Elain was engaged to a man who hates fae. And Elain was always going to become Fae.

Lucien had his history and story with Jesminda since book one. He thought Jesminda was his mate. The woman who loved him for him, not because he was a High Lord's son or because of any other High Fae customs Lucien rejects. This is where you see the development. Lucien and Elain could have worked on an incredibly surface level, both of them having lost their first loves, but deeper themes revealed themselves that showed they mirror each other in a way that doesn't make them right for each other, but that allows them to face what needs to be faced: being strong and brave enough to choose for themselves instead of letting the world control them.

For Elain and Lucien to have made sense together thematically, everything should have been reversed. Elain should have been mated to Azriel, and then Elain and Lucien should have met somehow and fallen in love, and the choosing each other above all, love trumping even a mating bond, Lucien being chosen and loved without question, without hesitation, would have belonged to them.

But again, without the mating bond, Lucien and Elain wouldn't even have met in the first place and Lucien would not have left Spring. So where does that leave us? The mating bond as a plot device. It was literally required to move the story forward, but thematically is anticlimactic for both parties in terms of the kind of love they want for themselves.

So- was Lucien always going to have a mating bond rejection? Probably not. But where in the years long process did all of this reveal itself? Only Sarah knows that. But I think what is quite clear is that it was always going to happen if we start from what is published in the books between him and Elain.

I think it's very possible that SJM did really intend for Lucien to wind up with one of the sisters. But if you've ever gone through the writing process yourself, you realize pretty quickly how many things fall apart and don't work/make sense/are actually anti-thematic to the characters you've created. Maybe she'll tell us one day exactly when Elain and Lucien fell apart, just like Nesta and Lucien fell apart. But we do have to keep in mind that an author like SJM, who was able to sell a trilogy all at once, probably had to have at least a 25 page packet outlining the trilogy and it's development. So- was it Nesta and Lucien in the pitch packet? Was it Elain and Lucien, because even while structuring a pitch she realized Nesta and Lucien would never work while outlining, but thought Elain and Lucien would? Only to discover Elain and Azriel connecting while drafting ACOMAF?

Writing a book is years of plotting, outlining, writing, rewriting, editing, writing again, and sometimes what you come up with is unrecognizable from the plan. And considering SJM contracted a trilogy, she would have pitched in pretty significant detail what would happen in book two and book three. We'll see what Sarah does and does not choose to reveal!

I think that's everything! I love getting these questions from you guys. I still have a cue in my inbox, and I am sorry it's kind of random when my inspiration strikes and I have a clear answer and can quickly think of the passages and ideas! But I will try to get to my older ones that have been sitting for a minute, I promise!

What do you guys think? I know everyone has different thoughts on this and I love to hear them!

[offtorivendell]

On Elain, Gwyn and their apparent romantic worthiness.

TW: mentions of death, violent or sexual assault, infertility and pregnancy/childbirth related trauma. Please do not proceed if these topics bother you.

Disclaimer: please, please engage with this post with kindness. I promise I am not writing it to stir the pot, but because I - and many others - are fed up with seeing hurtful and harmful rhetoric spewed by the fandom, yet having no back up when dealing with it. Word vomit incoming, I'm sorry. This has been bothering me for a while.

My love to everyone who has been hurt by things they've read in this fandom. 💜

It's 2024 and I cannot believe we are still seeing posts, almost daily, about both of these women; all giving reasons why they cannot possibly be with Azriel. And I don't mean the debatable but utterly harmless discussions about Elain not looking good in black or Gwyn blabbing to Merrill when asked not to. Whatever, go nuts. I mean the truly horrific takes based around things these two women have had no control.

Now, my post history makes it very obvious where I stand in terms of ships, and yes, I'm well aware I've spoken before about the inherent power imbalance - that I perceive - which would exist if Azriel ever became involved with any of the priestesses in the women's shelter he is charged with protecting (to be clear, that's not me suggesting that Gwyn and her story isn't powerful, or powerful representation to those who see themselves in her, nor is it personal to Gwyn, or indicative of any of the sheltered priestesses and their ability to heal; it's purely a function of Azriel's position of authority over their sanctuary). I want to reiterate that my stating my feelings about this was never done with the intent to shame people who do ship them; we all ship who we like, and real world ethics should rarely come into it.

That being said, the following, in my opinion, is one of those times.

Firstly, I just want to say that lived experience informs how we interpret fiction, so please let me clarify something: the people who have said that they don't think Gwyn is ready for a relationship yet, and that NSFW fan art of her with anyone makes them uncomfortable, are not in any way in the wrong. They're simply the other side of the coin to those who find it empowering, and both are valid responses, often related to personal trauma. The problem lies with those very few who say that Gwyn could never have a romantic relationship, and call those who talk and/or post about it "gross." Some have called her "damaged goods." This is absolutely wrong and whoever is doing it needs to stop.

The entire fandom, even those who find romantic or NSFW content involving Gwyn uncomfortable to consume, frequently acknowledges that her trauma doesn't define her, and of course she should be able to enjoy love whenever she feels ready for it. Those who say otherwise are readily condemned from all corners. I've seen it happen and called the people out myself, as have many other Elriel shippers when necessary. However, Elriels are still very regularly and very publicly blamed for the actions of a few (some of whom I truly believe are burner accounts wanting to cause chaos, with their Elriel themed usernames and no post history), despite our largely collective action to call them out when we see it.

Could we do better? Absolutely, but so can you!

Because, on the other hand, I've noticed that, whenever I or others have tried to explain why the pliable bones "theory" - which attempts to reason that Elain could never be endgame with Azriel, as she and any baby would die during the course of pregnancy or childbirth - is equally as harmful, we are met with people publicly and wholeheartedly refusing to understand why (especially recently). Some horrific comments have been made to my friends, not to mention all of those I see well after the fact, which are never widely condemned by any but us. People will argue back that we're wrong, and have even suggested we're weaponising infertility! On Mothers' Day, of all the fucking painful days to say that.

Some of the push back I've seen recently includes:

"Nobody has said Elain is infertile."

No, nobody has, and that's not what we're saying or have ever said. We know you don't think this, as the Elucien fandom loves to write and draw Elain and Lucien's hypothetical future children (which is super understandable, as this is a romantasy fandom after all - no shame, enjoy your warm fuzzies).

What we are saying is that, if it's true that Elain's anatomy wasn't changed as Feyre and Nesta's was - and to be clear I cannot stand that entire plot, I wish SJM had chosen literally any other reason why Feyre's pregnancy was dangerous, as it is simultaneously degrading and doesn't fit with her previously established lore - then Elain and Azriel, together^, would be functionally infertile. Yet it's only ever framed as Elain's body not being able to work with Azriel's, never the other way around.*

^Why didn't the bat boys have to sacrifice their wings to keep their wives/mates safe? Why did the women have to change their anatomy? Because it would make it harder for them to be all powerful? Well Nesta sacrificed her powers! Why not just have Feyre be cursed by an enemy or something, and Nesta found a way to use the Dread Trove to save them all. Ugh. I love SJM's books, but this was such a miss.

*HOSAB/HOFAS SPOILER: funnily enough, this was never said about Ruhn and his eventual mate, even though he actually did think he may be unable to father children, thanks to the Oracle's prophecy. People shipped the hell out of him and a couple of different women throughout the CC series, despite the chance he could never get them pregnant.

"People haven't called Elain damaged goods, so it's not the same. We're allowed to not like her."

My faerie porn* lover in christ, what the fuck do you think the pliable bones "theory" is actually doing? It is suggesting that Elain's hypothetical inability to survive having children with Azriel, and for those children to also survive childbirth, is impaired. Ergo, she's damaged.

We don't care if you don't like Elain, we're allowed to have different preferences in characters and ships. That has never been the problem.

*I use this term with affection as a great lover of the genre.

But "damaged" vs a functionally "impaired" uterus? It's the same damn thing, and sorry, it's misogynistic af, not to mention ableist and homophobic at a minimum. In the same breath you are also reducing your favourite to her apparently functional uterus (even though the pliable bones argument is medically inaccurate, by the way - this is really damning of the state of health education across so many countries).

"Hahaha/lol."

Yes, I have seen people laugh and treat this as a joke. As recently as tonight, in fact. It's disgusting.

Regardless of your lived experiences and shipping preferences, both of these takes about Elain and Gwyn are equally degrading and horrific and need to stop, but if you're only calling out the comments that hurt you/your friends/your ship and not the others, then you should maybe attempt some basic self reflection and analyse those double standards you're carrying.

This entire fandom needs to do better. I'll say again, for the umpteenth time, to any of my fellow Elriels that if you think mocking Gwyn's past is funny, then you're not mature enough to read an adult series. But this works both ways, and if you think mocking infertility is funny/use it as a win, then you're just as immature. I would really and truly appreciate it if we were not left alone to argue over and over again why discriminating against someone who couldn't "have a man's children" is wrong, and why many, many people in this adult fandom - that is largely comprised of women! - might find such a theory, and the resulting discourse, incredibly upsetting.

Infertility hurts; not having a kid when you want one can be viscerally painful. Besides that, I know very few people who have given birth who don't carry around some sort of emotional or physical trauma from doing so. Treating a character's hypothetical infertility with one man as a joke is gross.

Please don't call Gwyn "damaged goods" or suggest that Azriel would choose somebody else over Elain because she couldn't have his kids.

They are the same thing.

It's not hard to be kind. Pain is not a competition.

We should all do better, and take care of each other.

[watchyourbuck]

U are even reading and sharing tuck fanfics. I mean are u crossing over? I don't understand how you can root for them this much when buddie isn't even a done deal. Ur betraying them

okay, lets maybe stop for a second alright. i ship buddie like pretty much everyone else in this fandom, that hasnt changed. its not gonna change, not even if Buck gets a whole, three season arc with Tommy.

having said that, why wouldn't i be allowed to enjoy other ships? partake, write, reblog, etc? "You are betraying them" they're not real dfghj this is a fandom for fictional characters. they dont exist, im not betraying anybody.

fandoms exist for our enjoyment, for our exploit. part of that is sometimes seeing the meaning and fun into other ships that arent your main, that arent your endgame.

i like buddie, i ship buddie, its in my bio lmao, but i still like bucktommy. i dont necessarily want them to be end up together forever but this is CANON bi Buck's first relationship with a man, and i support his journey of self discovery. as ive said before, i actually think its good he wasnt paired up immediately with Eddie. whatever happened to slow burns!!! to multishipping!!! to ot3s!!!

lets people vibe yeah? create and consume the content they want??

[yannaryartside]

If Sydcarmy is not engame….

This is a rant. A sad rant but still. I know we have evidence, I would go to the supreme court with it, but hear me out.

If sydcarmy is not endgame:

It would make the show a disappointment for me. It will kinda ruin it to some extent. But not only as a shipper they had her expectations unsatisfied, but as a conscious viewer. I would like to explain why.

Part 1: the meaning of their connection

I was a shipper of this relationship the moment the characters met. She was cute, awkward and brilliant. He was cute, awkward and angsty. I normally go hard for shipping character where I find both of them interesting, and I like their dynamic. This is the ship that had consumed my head the most in all my years of consuming fiction. They both have real traumas and flaws. Even if the show wasn't so obvious with its intentions, I would have shipped them until they both got their respective soulmates. These two characters taught me how complex developing a romance could be, and how satisfactory if the pieces went together. Just the fact that they are so complex and I got to ship them is something I am grateful for. I will never write romance the same way.

Now, I don't know if is the time of the month fatalism hits, but I have been recently seriously considering the fact that it may not happen. That Claire was always supposed to be Carmy’s endgame.

Part 2: potential

The first reason why I would be disappointed if they are not engame is because the concept of two people building something together while supporting each others flaws is what got me into the show. It is such a beautiful concept for a couple, and I know it works on friends, but I once read that romance appears in your life when you have to open yourself to new potentials. In Carmy, Syd saw the potential for grow and movement, in Syd, Carmy saw the potential for peace and sincerity. Not to mention I rather ship two messed up characters than one messed up character and another that the show has called “perfeft” multiple times.

Part 3: Claire

Thinking Claire bear is endgame is to admit that she has to grow of the flaws we all saw, that Carmy could make her better (wich I don't think because Claire seemed to have a lot of lack of empathy to begin with) but ok. The thing that could never work for me is that we know Syd can make Carmy feel peace but Claire can't. It is the theme of the show that a woman should learn how to be like other woman in order to maker her man happy? We will define how much good she can do to Carmy on how much peace she could bring like Syd did. That doesn't sound right to me.

Part 4: Syd

I don't think the purpose of Syd in the whole story is to be Carmy’s endgame, but a lot of her screentime so far has been defined by her relationship with him. In the good things she does for him and his family. We know she has feeling for him. We know that she has had her heart broken before and then this could break it again. Again, that is the theme of your show? That a woman needs to get her heart broken in order to grow or get to her full potential? Who asked for this?

You made her fall for a guy that may never support her creative journey, that may have defined how she view herself as an artist? That she will have to deal with her broken heart and decide to find another spot to work? Are we supposed to believe that is something good for her? You wanna to contribute to a narrative of glorifying women's pain to justify growth? You are gonna use these amazing character just to have her heart broken 3 seasons out of 4. Is that supposed to be her big lesson? Her motivation even?

Not that is justification for Carmy and Syd getting together, but what a waste of time. If you had established and denied the attraction earlier or just never make her have feelings for Carm you could have her a interesting arc worthy of such an interesting character.

Not only that, but it seems all so cruel, to create a dynamic that in friendship can make her grow but because she developed feelings for him can hurt her immensely.

Idk, maybe I just made a story on my head that I thought made sense but the author insist on disagreeing. Maybe I am making storm out of nothing since they may have us a satisfactory thing. But yet…

[matan4il]

911 ep 706 first watch reactions

Buck and Eddie setting up the bachelor party are so funny. They're married to a degree that the bride and groom can only aspire to one day achieve. And Madney are raising a kid together! Then again, so are Buddie, and have been since day 2... (day 1 is forever Buck ogling Eddie at the station, and Eddie strutting his stuff for him, with Buck's now canonically jealou-traction being the, ummm, lubricant)

Oh, Tommy just arrived, Buck and him have done nothing but hug, and Eddie's already bringing on the jealousy jealou-traction. IDK what is the etiquette about bringing your date to a bachelor party, but what's the rule about bringing your hubby who's jealous of your bf?

Oh, and an extra jab at Buck bringing Tommy officially as his date to the wedding. I love me a jealous Eddie. My dude, your closet is shaking so hard, it's about to push you out of itself if you don't make the move already.

Okay, in all seriousness, Tommy not dressing like the 80's, Buck showing that he really cared about that silly party theme, Eddie rolling with it, the two of them being dressed more as a couple than the actual guys dating, Buddie seeing things so much in the same way (down to both seeing themselves as the same character from Miami Vice) while Buck and Tommy are totally out of sync... I love that Tommy is there to help Buck figure himself out, but also, this is the stuff that will forever keep me shipping Buddie.

I know the flashback is mainly to show that the bachelor party is Buck's idea, and goes against Chim's wishes, but Eddie suggests the couple costume? And Buck was so readily on board? Even when he knew Tommy would also be invited? This is my house catching fire, while I sit here, mumbling to myself how fine it all is...

Okay, everyone leaving the bachelor party, even the guy Buck is dating, while Eddie stays, sure is something. And by "something" I mean "a couple." That's a couple. That's Buck's partner in everything, even dumb ass 80's costumes and failed bachelor parties, he's the one who jumps in whatever stupid plan Buck comes up with, and stays to deal with the mess.

LOL And then we got some REAL mess. Again, dumb Buck idea, and Eddie just rolling with it. Making it worse even, by suggesting how to take the party (made up of people who don't even know the groom) to Chimney. These two deserve each other. XD

Buck was behind Eddie while his shirt was being torn? Presumably helping with the tearing? That's it, 911 does not want me to make it to the end of the season with my sanity intact. I guess it's good that I'm not even trying...

I'm glad there was a representation of Chim and Kevin, and a Korean tradition, I just hope it was a truthful one. (do we have Korean viewers in our midst to chime in on this?)

Maddie using her 911 skills to find and help Chim is pretty badass (and a nice gender reversal of the 'damsel in distress needing to be saved a sec before her wedding' tale). Love it!

Maddie and Chim looked so happy during their wedding. Honestly, at the end of the day, my little hopelessly romantic heart doesn't need more than that. <3

Awwww, the Buck and Tommy kiss was nice. I think the most important part of it is we got to see Buck for the first time daring to kiss another guy, rather than wait to be kissed. I may bbe a Buddie shipper, but I think this r/s is important to Buck as well, to his ability to find what he wants, to not be scared of it, to not wait for others to want him as was the case with all the women he'd dated, but rather figure out what he wants in a certain moment, and that it's okay for him to go get it.

(I still don't think Tommy is Buck's endgame, though. Much as his probably my fave Buck r/s so far other than Eddie. Tommy not being there for Buck when the bachelor party flunked, him not being there at the wedding itself, to share this significant moment with Buck, being almost incidental to Buck's coming out to his colleagues and parents, other than being a gay that was obviously kissed by Buck just a short while ago... Again, just not the stuff great love stories are made of)

Hen going, "Finally!" to Karen was funny and cute. Everyone (almost) just smiling at Buck's coming out was nice. But the way his mom reacted in particular felt more realistic, and made me wish that at least with his parents, who we know he has a strained r/s with, the should would have allowed this to be more explored. Hopefully in a future ep if not now.

Thank you for reading! If you're looking for more, you can find my s7 reactions tag here, and more of my Buddie meta and content in my pinned post. xoxox

[chevelleneech]

Unpopular opinion meets interesting observation: Tommy and Marisol were accidentally written as the same character.

Not a one to one match, but:

Both are characters who appeared in previous episodes

Both exist in s7 because Tim didn’t want to start over with brand new characters for Buck and Eddie’s love lives

Both triggered a “discovery” within their respective partner

Both are being presented as important love interests despite zero romantic development

We’ve seen one real date each from both pairings

We’ve seen a misunderstanding lead to a second chance from both pairings

We’ve seen both Buck and Eddie question their own behavior in regard to how they are dealing with their interest for Tommy and Marisol

Now, this isn’t a “which couple is better or worse” post. I think both have potential, but I am starting to wonder if perhaps Tim was so dead set on not repeating a previous cycle with Buck and Eddie’s romantic arcs, that he didn’t realize he wrote them into the same relationship? One is queer while the other is het, but there is no real difference. Except Marisol is a side female character, and unfortunately 911 does a terrible job giving bare minimum complexity to them, in a way they don’t seem to struggle to do with side male characters.

But I mean, Tommy showed up to the bachelor party and wedding because Buck asked, the same way Marisol showed up to help chaperon Chris’s first date because Eddie asked.

Point is, Buck and Eddie are on the same romantic journey. Which is what I’ve been trying to say with my other posts, but it took me a few days to finally articulate it. Now that I have, I can say this is why I don’t think there is a clear way to decipher which pairing will be endgame and which won’t. It’s why I think BuckTommy shippers are being exagerant in their bias, while Buddie shippers are being fearful in theirs. Because there is nothing happening either way.

We don’t know what kind of romance Tommy likes. We don’t know what kind of romance Marisol likes. We do know one of their similar hobbies though, lol. They both like repairing old things. We also know they both struggled to find themselves in their younger adulthood.

So you can’t want one gone but not the other without misogyny coming into play, because they are essentially the same character. And I do not for a second believe any of this was intentional. I’ll eat my pillow of it turns out it was, but I think Tim and ABC played it too safe with how Buck’s coming out was written, because they gave him a relationship instead of a personal self-discovery wherein he got to date around again or have a one night stand again yet otherwise stayed single this season.

Buck and Eddie are two characters whose stories are often intertwined, and from the looks of it, giving them both blank slate relationships at the exact same time has resulted in writing them into the same relationship. It’s both interesting and very funny, if I must say.