#but nmj gave him no reason to do that

[mostlikelytofangirl]

I've read fic where JGY was abusive and found it in character. I don't think 'abusive' and 'not abusive' are two separate categories of people. Under the right circumstances, any person or character can exhibit abusive behaviors and, with a long enough time frame and no interventions, their relationship could certainly become abusive.

If the word 'abuse' seems so incompatible with our beloved villains, can we really say we love them as villains if we can't love and acknowledge their capacity for harm?

-Regular Anon

Oh hi there, anon! Nice to see you again :D. Sorry this took so long in getting answered, I've been having a case of Real Life(tm) recently orz.

Anyways, I'm guessing this is maybe apropos of this other ask? In any case, let me just go part by part starting with the last statement bc I actually agree there with you.

If we claim to like a character, there's really no point in ignoring key elements of their personality, right? If we like villains, we like them bc of the fucked up shit they do and how very sexy of them it was, not in spite of. That's why even when I can indulge myself in the occasional fic with a softer canon WRH (bc food be scarce and every treat is appreciated :'))), I don't fully subscribe to that bc that's just not how he is. Even in AUs there just has to be some of his og assholery or at least make the changes make sense.

But here's where my first caveat comes, and it's something I mentioned in my other reply too. The characters' circumstances.

Now, idk what kind of fic you read, and at the end of the day, if it works for you, that's totally cool! I just would have to assume that JGY's life still had some level of shittery to it, or he was going through someting bc really, this is the character that saved a perfect stranger in the middle of the war without any ulterior motive, nothing to offer, and risking his own safety just bc it was the right thing to do.

The entire point of MY/JGY is that he was "corrupted" by a society that left him with only two options: accept your fate as a bottom feeder, or cheat the system in whatever way you can bc you are always going to be inherently disadvantaged. And here's my second caveat:

JGY doesn't read like a villain to me. An antagonist, maybe, but an actual force of evil in complete oposition to the core values of the heroes and actively trying to hurt/stop them? Not really.

So it's not only that, but also the fact that he's a nurturing person at his core that lead me to disagree with the notion that he would be purposedly abusive towards another person unless there's very pressing circumstances that would make it so that his own well-being actually depends on somehow damaging this other individual.

Sorry, but I just don't see it working in any other way.

That being said, yes, you are right, interpersonal relationships are much more complicated than just abusers and victims (despite what some corners of tiktok and twt might say lol). As I also said in that other ask, at some point in our lives, we are all going to be the assholes and even the villains in someone else's story; we are going to hurt those close to use and we are going to make mistakes bc we are humans. But there's a difference between toxic behavior and being a toxic person. So while being a dick bc you had a bad day or bc there's no good communication going on can totally happen to everyone, that's not the same as intentionally hurting and manipulating someone in a systemic fashion fully designed to keep them trapped with you.

THAT is something ingrained in the person at hand, and while there's an entire conversation to be had about nature vs nurture, in JGY's particular case there has been no examples whatsoever in canon to even suggest that that's the direction his character skews towards. On the contrary, he has sacrificed his own desires and needs for those he cares about: being a model husband to QS and never taking a concubine, helping rebuilt Cloud Recesses and creating the watchtowers even if it was unpopular, going to NHS' aid whenever he called despite it being more work for him, never hurting Madam Jin in spite of how she did hurt him, etc. By the end even, pushing LXC away when the man had clearly accepted death with him.

Again, idk the details of the fic you are refering to, for all I know, it's an entire exploration of JGY spiralling down an even darker and more desperate place than in canon, and him becoming abusive towards someone bc, idk, that's the only way in which he can feel in power when his entire life depends on others is the whole point of the thing. And that's perfectly valid too!! What's fiction for if not to explore and go beyond??

I just felt like I should clarify that, while I agree on principle with the villain statement, I don't think it applies to JGY unless there are specific factors playing along, and if those are not met, I personally wouldn't find an abusive!JGY portrayal accurate or in-character.

But once again, that's just my position and I have my preferences and my biases like any other person.

[labyrynth]

no you’re right wwx just horrifically tortured and murdered his clan’s political enemies on the spot, spent about two seconds killing his (martial) brother in law, actually did a lot of the same things as xue yang himself—and actually succeeded where xue yang largely failed, in creating an undead servant—and animated a bunch of dead girls to act as his accessories (and if they weren’t accessories, i’ll give you one guess what they were for)

jgy died because nhs was willing to throw everything and everyone under the bus to serve his own selfish vengeance scheme. that’s it.

MXTX: so the story starts with the main character's death. Then we unravel his story and how he tried his best but had to resort to fucked up methods in order to create real change and save lives, how society supported him while it benefited them and then turned on him when it was convenient, how his complicated social status of being gentry-adjacent was intrinsically tied into every decision he made AND how he was judged before during and after those decisions, how he experienced abuse and abandonment and support and love, saved lives AND killed people. He sacrificed everything but never compromised his ideals once, and it got him killed.

MXTX: and then we close the story on the death of this other guy, who we're also shown having gone through ALL THAT SAME STUFF, except this guy compromises every single time and that ALSO got him killed.

MXTX: neither of them were killed because it was "right" to, or because they were "evil", but because those with power in society were done with them. Their past actions were used to excuse their executions, and it's kinda fucked up actually, wouldn't you say?

MDZS fandom: 1 billion years of meta on why JGY is an irredeemable villain, and WWX is a pure cinnamon roll

[wangxianficfinder]

Fic Finder

June 4th

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1. For the next Fic Finder, I read this long time ago and can't remember the title but it was a long fic (one shot) and I remember it was an AU (kinda futuristic from what I remember) where Wei Ying was a werewolf shifter and he was on the run when he got transported/summoned to another world by some mages Lan Zhan being among them when he first came to the new world. There's some magic academy mystery they needed his help with and in the end Wei Ying stays in the new world with Lan Zhan. I also remember towards the end, the reason Lan Zhan was involved and so intrigued by Wei Ying because his brother turned into a werewolf but with none of his humanity and he was trying to find a solution to save him. Wei Ying was helping with him when he went back with Lan Zhan to his home.

I would be so grateful if anyone knows this fic!! @cara-tanaka

FOUND? Ribbons and Heartsongs by jeyhawk (E, 36k, WangXian, Fantasy AU, Science Fiction AU, Dimension Travel, Case Fic, Loss of Virginity, Marriage Proposal, Pining, Sharing a Bed, Anal Sex, WWX is a werewolf, but it's not a typical werewolf au)

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2. Hi mojo! Just want to say ur blog is soooooo helpfull and i am on it everyday!!! I was looking for this fic where lwj and wwx get stuck in a coffin because there are some thiefs who break in to find something id remember and lwj gets dirty with wwx and *ahem*😏 f**gers (fingers) him and wwx starts screaming for help. That's all.Hope you can help me find it 🥺.Thank you, Bye Mojo 👋🏻

Found?🔒 Tomb raider by Aki_no_hikari (E, 6k, WangXian, Case Fic, Anal Fingering, Dry Humping, wangxian have sex in a coffin)

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3. Hello! I've read a couple years ago a WangXian fic in Modern AU, I believe it was.

I don't remember if it was pwp or not, but I wanna read it again! lwj might have been a university professor or TA, I don't remember. I know wwx came by earlier then his pears for the lecture / test, things happened and he got on to work. Blowjob lwj under the desk with the other students taking a test. Something like this.

Please help me find it! 😭😭

FOUND? but you brought me to my knees by orphan_account (E, 3k, WangXian, Modern, College/University, Shameless Smut, Oral Sex, Blow Jobs, Under-Desk Blow Jobs, Face-Fucking, Choking Spanking, (just once), Cock Slut, Crossdressing, Teacher-Student Relationship, PWP)

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4. hello! I went through all of my bookmarks to find a fic I suddenly thought of but unfortunately, I couldn't find it. I only remembered a scene where alpha!wwx gave something to omega!lwj (not really sure if it was a suppressant, but if I remember it right, it's something he could use to conceal his scent) jiang cheng was with wwx when he gave it to lwj. wwx also had a conversation with jyl about why a certain omega's scent bothers him (not bother in a bad way). I don't know if it was a getting together fic but yeah, wwx had some realizations. that's all I have. I would appreciate the help! thank youuu!

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5. Hey there, love the work you do, giving me reading material for years. This time I come before you because I failed to track my fics like an amateur.

So this fic was had age reversal among the twin jades and there was something about lwj bonding with nmj as big bros. Pretty sure wangxian was involved, not sure though.

Ik it's all over the place but let me know if you find it.

FOUND? Strong enough to carry him- he ain't heavy, he's my brother. by Starlitverses (Not Rated , 5k, LXC & LWJ, WangXian, LWJ & NMJ, LXC & NHS & NMJ, WIP, Twin Jades of Lan Dynamics, Brotherly Love, LXC Deserves Happiness, Protective LWJ, Age Swap, First jade LWJ, Second Jade LXC, Sect Leader LWJ, LWJ being the protective older brother, Canon Divergence, Everyone Lives,bFluff and Hurt/Comfort, Angst with a Happy Ending, Hurt LWJ, Hurt LXC , LXC & WWX Friendship, Protective Older Brothers, NMJ & LWJ bonding over their little brothers, WangXian learn actual communication, Meddling LXC, you thought older brother LXC was scary? LWJ is worse, Older LWJ, Older WWX, everyone loves and wants to protect LXC, LXC-centric, LWJ will destroy anyone that hurts his brother) haven't read it but the tags sound like what you were looking for!

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6. Fic Finder ask: Idr anything else, but I vividly remember this one paragraph where WWX and LWJ were in a relationship(I think it was young love but it might not have been, I just remember picturing them very young and wwx in his og body) and WWX was working hard on something(I think it was talisman related but that’s also a variable)and to take a break from it he’d turn to LWJ and jump him req-ing “rape” which was just shorthand for woo hoo with cannon kinks.(which was explained in the text)

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7. Hi!! I've looked for this fic on ao3 and my bookmarks list but I was unable to find it, maybe I've been filtering with wrong tags or keywords.

But from what I remember, it was an au where if you love someone enough, the first time you touch them you leave a colored mark on them. Wwx has left his signature red on most people, but has never had any marks left on him, not even from jyl. So he always covers himself up and wears gloves, accepting he'd never be loved, until of course Lwj leaves a blue hand print on him. It isn't a soulmate au though, I don't exactly remember if it was canon settings or modern settings.

Hope you can find it easily and many thanks for your hardwork :> @songtaegguk

That sounds like one of these -

FOUND? leading tone by silencemostofall (G, 32k, WangXian, Modern AU, Soulmates, with a lil twist, Eventual Happy Ending, Music, Orchestra, [Podfic] Leading Tone by silencemostofall by Beria1021)

FOUND? pastel by antebunny (G, 6k, WangXian, Modern AU, College/University, Soulmates, Heavy Angst, Hurt/Comfort, Found Family, Self-Esteem Issues, Misunderstandings, Angst with a Happy Ending, Unrequited Love, but not actually, no courtesy names)

FOUND? Mark me with your devotion by orphan_account (M, 18k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Soulmates, soulmate AU with a twist, The twist is not a curse though, I'm sorry but everyone is kind of toxic in this, Angst with a Happy Ending, Hurt/Comfort, A-Yuan is adorable, First Time, Canon-typical Sex, Cultivation Partners, Fluffy wangxian, Nothing else is all that fluffy, Night-hunting together, Their studies are different that's why they keep going on missions and not staying in Gusu much)

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8. Hi! There is a fic that i want to read again. The problem is, not only i don't remember much of the story, i don't know if this fic is from this fandom or detective conan. But i'm sure it's from this fandom. It's modern au where there are serial killer on the loose. WWX investigate it. He has an ability to see the corpse's past (i think he has an ability? Not sure about this part). But even with his ability, he can't solve it. There are connection between the victim. Their connection is the next victim is the one that found the previous victim (again i'm not sure if it only the one that found the body or other witnesses too). The state of their body is brutal. There are some evidence of torture. WWX investigate this until he become the target because he found the newest victim. I think he was kidnapped and when he wake up he is in a room. I don't know how to explain it but he tried to escape like the previous victims but the room or more like the place he was in is full of trap. If you ever watch danganronpa v3 side despair, the place is similar to when Nanami Chiaki died. Thats all i can remember. I trully hope its not my imagination. Thank you! @idontknowwhattowriteforusername

unfortunately is not it! If i remember correctly, they all work in police force and WWX work as forensic i think?

Hi! Im from fic finder June 4th #8. I found the fic. Its Slaughter House by Duochanfan. The detail i gave was a bit off. WWX is not the victim (a shame really...) And there was no connection between the victim

NOT FOUND! I don’t know if this is it but th me description vaguely reminds me of Post Mortem by Cataclysmic_Calamity (E, 178k, WangXian, Psychological Horror, Modern, friends with benefits, they're both fucked up but they love each other so much, Slow Burn Mystery, Unnegotiated Kink, Dom/sub, Anal Sex, Consensual Non-Consent, Stalking, Drug Addiction, Serial Killers, in WWX's desire to critique the 'final girl' trope he accidentally becomes one, Angst with a Happy Ending, meta commentary on the horror and true crime genres) If nothing else it’s a good read!

FOUND! Slaughter House by Duochanfan (M, 24k, WangXian , NieLan, ChengSang, Angst, Drama, Crime Scenes, Crime Drama, Psychometric! WWX, Coroner WWX, detective LWJ, Detective JC, slight romance, Amnesia, Past Kidnapping, Murder Mystery, Reference to Autopsies, dead bodies, Single Parent!WWX, Modern AU)

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9. Hi, fic finder request pls: I've been searching for this one specific wangxian fic i read an year or so ago on ao3. AU: mordern world, a/b/o, heavy angsty plot with a happy ending, i cant recall the tags n no matter how much i browse it's like the fic never existed but i kind of remember the plot: ""wei ying got $Aed (sexually assaulted) by a stalker n lan zhan blaimed him for cheating?(i don't exactly remeber) so WY disappeared later found out that he was prego ..gave birth to his baby all alone (i remember crying 10 times) later our alphaLZ regrets everything and finds him and tries to help him anyway possible and to have a fresh start :') but one day wei ying goes into heat n the stalker finds him but lz comes through and saves wei ying and they bond and become mate... happy ever after"" I've been dying to read it again :") I'd really appreciate if you're able to find it.

Thank you!!!

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10. Hello!!! This is my first time asking, you guys truly do god’s work!!!!

I’m looking for a fic where jiang yanli was reincarnated as wei wuxian’s child? I think it might have been the second part to a series and it may have involved a time traveling wei wuxian, though i’m not completly sure. I think in the summary it refers to Jiang Cheng as a neibhour who’s also reincarnated.

Thanks so much in advance!!! @avocadokichi

FOUND? sounds like the third part of 结局难更改 (the ending is hard to change) Series by PorcupineGirl (G, 50k, WangXian, Modern with Magic AU, Canon Divergence, Time travel, Reincarnated LWJ & LXC, YL WWX, Reincarnation, Secret Identity, Identity reveal)

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11. So there's this timetravel fic where teen wangxian meets older wangxian and teenLWJ is upset futureLZ's husband is not WWX.

Teenji dont realise HGJ's husband is wy in mxy's body and is quite rude to both hgj & his husband for betraying his pure love.

Does this ring any bell? @imstillthinkingaboutithmm

Hanguangjun's husband is not the fic i was looking for.

There's only four characters in the fic, teenwylz and olderwylz. They meet in the jingshi and teenwylz are the ones who timetravelled

NOT FOUND! Hanguang-jun's Husband by lilacevergarden (alittlemorecreative) (T, 6k, WangXian, Time Travel, Jealous WWX)

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12. Hi, I'm hoping you can help me find this fic. It takes place during the Cloud Recess study arc. I remember the Jiang's arrive at Cloud Recess to discuss Wei Wuxian marrying Lan Wangji. Wei Wuxian was confused as to why they thought he was in love with Lan Wangji, until Jiang Yanli and Madam Yu reminded him that he sent letters with bunnies with red and white ribbons in the margins kissing. The story had a happy ending. I'd appreciate any and all help in finding this story. @amalthia

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13. For fic finder please! I am looking for a fic where Wei Wuxian was blind or maybe just color blind. This is revealed in the Burial Mounds Settlement days when a-Yuan is learning colors and Wei Wuxian teaches him the wrong color for a radish (because he can’t see/doesn’t know colors either). Wen Qing was surprised to learn that Wei Wuxian had been blind the whole time she knew him..

FOUND? close your eyes, feel my heartbeat by ThatDesiGirl (T, 11k, WangXian, blind WWX, Angst with a Happy Ending, Rewriting Canon, not a fix-it but a what-if, Canon-Typical Violence, Golden Core Transfer, Romance, Pining)

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14. I once read a fic about the four children showing the future to the past using an array or a talisman.

I want to know its name.

FOUND? Teen Project to Change the World by animeloverhomura (Not Rated, WIP, 841k, WangXian, JYL/JZX, Watching the Show, With a bit of the Manhua and Book thrown in, BAMF WWX, Fix-It, JGS is his own warning, Attractive WWX, Homophobia, disturbing imagery)

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15. Hi there! I'm starting to pull my hair out in fear it has been deleted from ao3 but shooting my shot. Looking for a very specific amnesia LWJ fic (I cannot recall if it was one shot or multi, but it was either a long one shot or at least a few chps long?) where I think LWJ got cursed, and no one specifically tells him who WWX is - he gets jealous of himself cause it was at least revealed that WWX is married to someone in the clan? Sorry if this is not quiet enough info.

FOUND? It's not an exact match (LWJ eventually overhears that WWX is married, but no clan affiliation is mentioned) but I think #15 could be Unavoidable by diamondbruise (T, 18k, WangXian, Post-Canon, Amnesia, Jealousy, LWJ just is like that idk what to tell you, Misunderstandings, Falling In Love, Again, Happy Ending, it's that thing where they're married but lwj can't remember wwx and they meet again)

FOUND? #15 an effect (without a cause) by astrobandit deleted from ao3 afaik, i have a copy

FOUND? tonight i can write the saddest lines by sarahyyy (G, 3k, WangXian, Post-Canon, Established Relationship, Amnesia, Falling In Love, Domestic Fluff) i haven't read this in a while, but "tonight i can write the saddest lines"might be similar?

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16. Hey

I am looking for a fic. In the fic there is a book that explains lwj and juniors find it and use it interpret his expression. @mayavsworld

FOUND? Important Distinctions by nagi_blue (T, 5k, gen, Fluff and Crack, [Podfic] Important Distinctions by semperfiona_podfic (semperfiona) )

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17. Hello again, thank you for finding the book for me lastime. So this book is a time travel fix it where wei Ying and peacock go back into the past and run away together to try and find a way to stop the war but they don't know that their clans are watching them, poor lan wangji is so jealous that he wants to kill the peacock. I hope you can find it please! @blackrabbitusako24

FOUND? Wei Wuxian and Jin Zixuan are oblivious Besties ♥ series by Akak_ShadMe (G, 16k, JZX & WWX, JYL/JZX, WangXian, JC & NHS, NHS & WWX, JC/NHS, JC & JZX, LWJ & WN, JZX & WWX Friendship, Time Travel Fix-It, Platonic Relationships, Protective JZX, Confused JC, JZX Lives, Oblivious WWX, Awkward JZX, Angst and Humor, Platonic Cuddling, Fluff, Hurt WWX, Hurt/Comfort, Mental Breakdown, Implied/Referenced Character Death, Feels, Protective JYL, JZX Has Friends, Cuddling & Snuggling, Crack, Good Sibling JC, Crossdressing, JC is So Done, Cinnamon Roll WN, JZN Being an Asshole) i was curious about this so i looked in ao3 and this is what i found closest to the description

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18. Hello,

I'm looking for a wangxian fic, post canon,

where wei ying I'd traveling but can't fall asleep because he has nightmares. So he doesn't sleep at all until the juniors find him. He almost gets hurt and the juniors take him to lan zhan. Lan zhan helps wei ying to sleep.

I think it was only one chapter.

Thanks in advance @smarti1997

FOUND? hunters seeking solid ground by Attila (E, 23k, wangxian, Canon Compliant, discussion of canon character death, Hurt/Comfort, Nightmares, bed sharing, Getting Together, Yearning, Literal Sleeping Together, Really Excessive Amounts of Hurt/Comfort)

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19. Hi! looking for a fic with this description. it may have been deleted. I am not sure who is the creator. I do have an old link to it: lan wangji tries to be a hall monitor but this is not his house, now he's in detention too.

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20. searching for a fic...reincarnated wwx and immortal lwj?

fic search: WWX was reincarnated and LWJ was immortal. Set in modern times. LWJ had a lot of little bits where he hadn't fully caught up with technology. I believe he had adopted LSZ as well? And may have been a music teacher?

I also believe both LWJ and LXC were immortal.

In WWX's modern backstory, he was on the outs with the Jiangs after he had accidentally injured JYL on her wedding day and she bad been in the hospital ever since, so Jin Ling was being raised by Jiang Cheng.

Wen Ning may also have been working at a coffee shop and may have been dating Mo XaunYu

I read it several years ago, possibly around 2021, so it is not at all a recent fic. @kaijuerotica

FOUND? #20 is monotone. I don't remember the author's pen name, but they took it off of AO3 and uploaded it to Google docs

There's a link in this thread

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21. Hiiiii I am looking for a fic i read awhile back. Its a/b/o. I remember it was omega lwj and Alpha wwx. I just remember one scene from, where after they are mated they visit jzx and jyl. Jzx meets lwj privately to give him back his mothers hair pin. Apparently they were previously engaged but i think the lans fell from power so the jins canceled the engagement. Thaaank you 💕

FOUND? all the roads by silverclaw (E, 30k, WangXian, A/B/O, Alpha WWX, Omega LWJ, Enemies to Lovers, Jealous WWX, Protective WWX, Angst, Happy Ending, The first chapter can be read as a complete story, the following tags are for the second chapter, Top WWX, Bottom LWJ, Belly Bulge, Mentions of mpreg but no actual mpreg, Pregnancy Kink)

~*~

[symphonyofsilence]

Okay so what do JGY haters suggest JGY should have done about NMJ after NMJ's numerous and seemingly unstoppable attempts on his life?

Even if they say he should have done nothing and just awaited his death, he did that, too. Twice. NMJ gave up then but attempted to murder him three times after that.

he was in the middle of trying to murder JGY again when his qi deviation kicked in and finished him first. Both in the show and in the book. in the book, JGY gave him even more chances. He only started to play his remix for NMJ when NMJ offended his mother. kicked him down the stairs, and tried to murder him yet again. But the only thing that saved JGY from NMJ in the staircase encounter in the book was LXC arriving. LXC was apparently nowhere near arriving in the show, so JGY would have died there and then had it not been for NMJ's qi deviation kicking in.

and it's not like he could get a restriction order (and let's be real, even if he could, NMJ wouldn't respect the restriction order. He tried to kill the Jin heir in JILINTAI! repercussions mean nothing to him). He would definitely meet NMJ again and in one of those encounters finally LXC wouldn't have been present to interfere and JGY would have been left at the mercy of NMJ alone. even if JGY did kill Xue Yang ( which would result in JGS doing something to JGY in turn) NMJ would find another reason to attempt to kill JGY again (as he canonically did. JGY had promised NMJ that he would bring him XY's head and it had pacified NMJ for the time being. NMJ's last murder attempt happened because he overheard JGY talking behind his back since NMJ had offended JGY's mother and pushed him down a considerable number of stairs).

So what do you suggest he should have done? What would you do in his place?

Actually, I asked that but I know that JGY antis simply don't think about NMJ's multiple attempts on JGY's life and don't think that JGY was in any danger from him in anyway. It's amazing how people choose to wilfully see the negative things done BY JGY without seeing the negative things done TO him that provoked what JGY came to do. Like he's an ungrateful snake who murdered NMJ for ABSOLUTELY NO REASON after all the good NMJ had done for him. (BTW talking about debts and gratefulness JGY saved NMJ's life from WRH. And in the show from WZL, too.) And once I read someone calling JGY a toxic boyfriend for LXC because he told LXC to die with him before he died? my dude...he told him that WHILE BLEEDING TO DEATH ON LXC's SWORD THAT WAS INSIDE HIM TO THE HILT!!! DO YOU NOT SEE THAT?! kindly allow people to be a little bit verbally toxic (while begging for a little bit of affection from their murderer seconds before their imminent death) to their murderer while being murdered before pushing the said murderer out of harm's way. when the said murderer was moments ago again accidentally suffocating them by putting a silencing spell on them while treating their SEVERED HAND and didn't even originally intend to give them a painkiller. (which I previously ranted about here). Murdering NMJ was self-defense. JGY is only considered the bad guy in that situation because it was premeditated murder since he couldn't fight NMJ head-on due to his natural disadvantages compared to NMJ which no amount of training could improve to the point of getting to NMJ's levels. So he had to do it in the area HE was best at. And lastly, he's vilified because as someone else who I can't find rn said before, his one murder attempt, unlike NMJ's many. worked.

[thebiscuiteternal]

This timeline with Baby!NMJ and older NHS is adorable. Does NHS get any time to paint or participate in his hobbies? It would be really cute if he did and Bby!NMJ tried to help.

What little time he gets to himself, he usually spends caring for the sect's falcons. Since falconry was a hobby his father also enjoyed, and they're useful for catching small game, it's generally seen as "acceptable." He would like to have a wider variety of birds, but decided as a child that he didn't want the headache of having to justify himself constantly. The falcons are good enough, and they all love him and shamelessly beg for petting and cuddles.

On very, very rare occasions (when he has a reasonable expectation of being left alone all day), he'll paint. He's not a master, but it's good enough that it would be readily apparent to a discerning eye that he could be a master with practice. He found even less time to do it when Mingjue was very bitty, but around 2ish years of age, he started having extra supplies on hand so Mingjue could make finger scribble "paintings" of his own. It's a bonding exercise for them.

(Mingjue will never be a painter-painter, but even as a teenager, he sometimes drags Huaisang off and pull out the supplies when he can tell his brother is on the verge of a stress breakdown.)

---------------

"Gege." Nie Mingjue said as he held up his paper between chubby little ink-stained hands. "Look."

Nie Huaisang looked up from his own work in progress and had to bite back a smile at the Serious Business scowl on his three-year-old brother's face. Affecting an air of gravitas to play along, he laid his brush aside and took the paper, leaning back in his chair.

"Well, now, let's see what you've got here, didi," he said as Nie Mingjue clambered over the edge of the table and into his lap. "It looks like... a sheep?"

"No!" Nie Mingjue protested with a huge grin.

"No? But it's so fluffy!"

"Issnot a sheep!"

"Alright, alright, let me think," Nie Huaisang said, tilting his head to 'examine' the scribble of ink at a new angle. He could tell already that some of Mingjue's brush swipes had clearly meant to be striping, which told him he was looking at, by his estimate, his brother's thirty-seventh tiger, but immediately getting the answer wasn't part of the game.

"Hmmmm... I see very large paws... is it a bear?"

"No! Issnot a bear!" Mingjue said, slapping his hands down on the desk.

He barely missed the painting Huaisang had been working on, leaving inky little handprints on the wood, but that was fine. It would hardly be the first time Huaisang had worked around his baby brother's enthusiastic contributions.

"Not a bear? Oh my, you've made this very hard!" Nie Huaisang said, poking Mingjue in the side and making him laugh. "I don't know if I can guess it!"

"You have to! You have to guess!"

"Well, I suppose if I have to..." He squinted at the scribble, chewing at his lower lip in intense pretend contemplation, which made Mingjue laugh more. "It's not a bunny..."

"No!"

"And it's not a deer..."

"No!" Mingjue crowed, grin so big it might split his face.

"Is it... Oh! Is it a tiger?"

"Yes! Issa tiger!" Mingjue cheered, throwing his hands up.

"It's a very clever tiger, pretending to be other creatures like that. Excellent work, didi," Nie Huaisang said, dropping a kiss on his baby brother's head. "Why don't we hang it up to dry, and then it can go live with your other tigers?"

"Okay," Mingjue said, letting Huaisang lower him to the floor so he could get up.

Just as Huaisang had finished pinning the paper to his drying rack, however, the door opened and Nie Zhen, one of the guard captains, entered. "Your presence is required in the main study," he said without so much as an honorific or a salute.

Nie Huaisang sighed inwardly, but kept his face neutral and gave Mingjue a gentle warning tap on the shoulder when it looked like his little brother was starting to puff up in anger. "I'm on my way."

Again, not so much as a nod as the captain left, and Mingjue stuck his tongue out at the door as it closed. "Ass."

"Didi. Where did you even hear that word?" Huaisang admonished, still with no actual heat, as he wrapped his brush and ink to keep them from drying out while they were gone.

Mingjue grinned up at him unrepentantly. "At the grounds," he said, obviously meaning the training areas.

Huaisang did sigh at that. "Of course you did. But don't go using that word where other people can hear it," he said offering a hand.

Mingjue took hold, still grinning, and they left the room to go find out what the vitally important thing he wasn't actually needed for was.

[tavina-writes]

2, 12, 42 for Nie Mingjue for the character ask? :)

Da-ge! Beloved and amazing and regularly slandered :(. 2. A canon or headcanon hill I will die on

NMJ has hobbies. WWX does not know what those hobbies are, but they exist and they're probably regular rich gongzi hobbies. I will regularly and routinely die on this hill when it comes to NMJ bc that passage in the book everyone likes to cite about "he only does horrible cultivation and wants to behead Wens" doesn't even say that. If I don't get very salty about people saying whatever they want about NHS I DO regularly and routinely get extremely salty about people saying stuff about Da-ge so I will regularly and routinely die on so many hills about him, but that's the hobbies one I think is pretty typical of me. :D 12. Crack headcanon

Idk what entirely counts as crack, but I headcanon that NMJ collects teapots. And incense burners. And incense. And is actually really into aromatics. Do I have any support for this? No but CQL NMJ did give LQR a zisha incense burner on the very first scene where NHS appears and zisha porcelain is more commonly made into teapots so I will take "Da-ge's collection of teapots and incense burners" with me wherever I go! 42. 3 comfort items

Most enduring headcanons regarding comfort items is that NMJ must have 1) something from his mother, 2) something from his father, and 3) something from Huaisang and he was originally buried with all three of these things. :)

1.) something from his mother

Headcanon that Madam Nie was a devout Buddhist, and probably carried a string of white jade prayer beads, that probably resembles something like this:

2.) something from his father

Headcanon that he inherited the incense burner hobby from Papa Nie, so there's probably a stick of amber incense somewhere that he isn't burning for reasons that also gets buried with him later.

3.) something from Huaisang

I like to think that baby Huaisang once gave him a cicada shell (properly harvested!) from a tree outside one summer and he's kept it in a box ever since and knows that Huaisang would be DEVASTATED if anything ever happened to it. The dichotomy between fragile and preserved bc it was LOVED anyway really gets me about these sorts of things.

:D thanks for the ask!

[runespoor7]

nmj/wwx or jgy/wwx or lxc/wwx

Oh, interesting!

I answered under the cut, all three options and a surprise.

NMJ/WWX

don't ship it

Why don't you ship it?

lack of history in canon, I think. never really thought about it, they both die early without much to do with one another, I don't feel like I see what's going on there. I'm very busy shipping them with their respective it's-complicated.

What would have made you like it?

More history between them would have been a good start.

Despite not shipping it, do you have anything to say about it?

ok see the Draw for me here is that I think the in-universe RPF game for these two was insane. Probably unwarranted! Lots of LWJ or JC stuff being given to NMJ for some reason and some Meng Yao stuff given to WWX. But there was a time it was the big YLLZ-era ship. Righteous Chifeng-zun calling out and going to to war against the fallen Yiling Laozu! Action! Drama! Lots of possible captive scenarios! Some stories have WWX be secretly a spy for the Wens during the war and NMJ being unable to prove it, and realizing only after the war that WWX is trying to set himself up as the new WRH! Some stories have WWX save NMJ during the war, only to be corrupted by his demonic cultivation later on! It's definitely the Hot ship at the time.

It falls off in popularity after NMJ's death - it's taken over by WWX/JC (which had started becoming real popular since JC killed WWX; JC gets a lot of the darker versions of RPF!Chifeng-zun's personality traits in those stories) - but it probably leaves a decent smattering of heirs in non-RPF stories. The most popular romance story in the present is from an author who wrote NMJ/WWX, they're not quite expies but iykyk.

(the YLLZ's actual most common ship is YLLZ/Ghost General, in stories where YLLZ is the villain and not part of the main pair. These stories are overwhelmingly NMJ/JYL after she's been widowed by the YLLZ.)

JGY/WWX

don't ship it!

Why don't you ship it?

I have never seen a protagonist and a "main(?) antagonist" care so little about one another and be so perpendicular to each other's stories. The Venn diagram between WWX and JGY is "WWX's sidekick/boyfriend's brother is JGY's bestie" and "the person who wants JGY destroyed threw ideas at the wall and WWX stuck."

It's very interesting. It kind of makes mdzs into the kind of case fic where the case is less important than the emotions. For me, "the emotions," "the plot," was the mystery question of: "how come wwx died? how did it end up that way?"; I suspect ardent wgxn shippers see "the plot" as "how do wwx and lwj get together". In either case, it's got nothing to do with JGY.

What would have made you like it?

so if they did have interactions/history/something I might be into it, but otoh it's such a fun thing that they're just incidental to one another that it would almost be a shame.

(at this point it may become apparent that my answer to everything is "idk, if they'd been childhood friends and had a falling out?" but what can you do.)

This would have been a cool story: WWX and JGY knew one another as kids. Maybe WWX's parents left him at an inn down the street from the brothel Meng Yao lived in when they left on the night-hunt that would kill them.

Maybe bby Wei Ying boasted about his cultivator parents and gave Meng Yao pointers. Maybe Meng Yao gave WWX food once after bby WWX lost his parents. Maybe they played together/hid together. I see something like at most a few weeks of something that someone older would have called a friendship, and then bby WWX disappearing from Meng Yao's life.

Meng Yao remembers the other boy; WWX doesn't.

Depending on how long they were friends you might need to make up a reason why Meng Yao never learned the other boy's real name; maybe part of a joke during their first meeting that WWX refused to clear up later? fits in with WWX's joke to LQY. Or if they did exchange names, you might need a reason why Meng Yao doesn't try to turn his friendship with WWX into something actionable once he learns WWX is head disciple of YMJ. The reason might be as simple as Meng Yao not knowing what became of Wei Ying until after he tried to reach his father the first time. The rejection, the humiliation, the fear of being a laughing stock and or being rejected again, pride - those might suffice to explain why Meng Yao wouldn't throw himself at the mercy of Wei Ying or the Jiangs. (Especially if their meetings were under the sign of bby WWX bragging about his parents or sth like that.)

Keeping canon otherwise the same, this makes for a starting point for "what if" contemplations I'd be interested in.

Despite not shipping it, do you have anything positive to say about it?

I'm very into JGY having Opinions on WWX. there are definitely cool AUs to be made about them.

LXC/WWX

don't ship it

Why don't you ship it?

most of my ships need some... thing from canon. LXC/WWX is a complete mystery. I would be interested in making up stories about them, simply because there would be many stories to tell depending on your starting point. But I'm probably not going to want to spend effort or time on it.

LWJ and his feelings are also very much something that I'd need to consider, from LXC's PoV at least. And that's a lot.

What would have made you like it?

Hm, I dunno. A very different canon? One where they have more history, or more scenes together. Possibly one where I'm more invested in LXC as well.

Despite not shipping it, do you have anything positive to say about it?

Oh yes, it sounds fascinating!

Are we talking about WWX/LXC post-canon, with wgxn either a thing or having been a thing? How do they navigate LWJ's feelings for WWX? Are they going behind his back? Is it sad, or sordid, is it an unexpected friendship that goes deeper than any of them expected?

Or did LWJ die from his punishment while WWX was dead? Is LXC/WWX the relationship in this story because LXC has been mourning for his brother ever since; how resentful of WWX is he? Did LWJ try to get him to promise not to resent WWX? Does LXC try to understand WWX (for LWJ) anyway, does he try to meet him halfway? Does he end up seeing good things in WWX as well? Or it is a destructive urge that drives them together? (There would certainly be a parallel between LXC and JC in a story where LWJ died for WWX. Is WWX projecting? What kind of relationship do LXC and JC have?)

WWX/NMJ/LXC/JGY

I don't ship it but I think if given the opportunity WWX might joke about performing a 3zun hat trick a lot.

And then possibly commit to the bit, the only sort of commitment he's at ease with. (/cheap shot)

Or panic and not do it, given that he's hugely sentimental deep down, but he would love the joke!!!!

[fincalinde]

omg tennis is perfect and i love how this extends to the rest of the cast so thanks for the detailed response! if you don't mind making it longer... what's the deal with jgy's one (1) slam? and how does he feel about doubles?

No problem, thanks for the ask since it gave me the opportunity to ramble about tennis and Xiyao.

The way I have this outlined, the entire AU is larger than just their tennis careers, which means their careers are analogous to their Sunshot experiences rather than the entire novel. I'll talk about JGY's one slam and touch on his doubles career too.

JGY's slam is obviously a stand in for the climax of the Sunshot campaign. However, at the start of his career he's coming from nowhere, having taught himself mostly by watching others and training with ridiculous if not always effective dedication. His mother used all the money she had to try to get him a good tennis education, but that really just extended to buying equipment and the occasional lesson. As in canon, he's a prodigy whose development is held back by a lack of resources but who develops his own style by synthesising various different techniques.

He's too short to have a formidable serve, so his playing style is a bit like Diego Schwartzman at his peak i.e. clay his best surface, stellar return game, hits winners from defensive positions. But he also has amazing hands and good touch at the net. Just fantastic at disguised drop shots and disguised shots in general. He reaches a number of finals but not a slam final, and hasn't won any singles tournaments. Wins some minor doubles tournaments with NMJ, like 250 level and maybe also a 500, and then NMJ catches him colluding with the Wens to rig games for money at the Challenger level.

NMJ considers JGY dead to him after this and JGY ends up playing doubles mostly with other players who went to the Wen training academy and are still part of that circle. His ranking is as high as it's ever been, but still no slam and no reasonable expectation of one. Anyway, I won't go into more detail, but suffice to say that by the time we get to the equivalent of the endpoint of the Sunshot Campaign, NMJ is as close as he's ever been to finally beating WRH in a slam final because only JGY stands in his way at the semifinal.

Except NMJ is carrying an injury and this is his worst surface and JGY's best, so JGY exploits said injury and wins the match. Obviously everyone expects JGY to have expended all his energy taking down NMJ and thinks he'll get flattened in the final, but instead JGY comes out fresh as a daisy and beats WRH in straight sets, taking match point with a lob worthy of 2015 Davis Cup final Andy Murray. Right after this match is when WRH finds out that Someone Anonymous has whistleblown the entire illicit Wen betting operation and there's a huge scandal in which JGY comes out smelling like roses.

After this, JGY steps back from singles and has much more success in doubles with LXC, mostly because it's a conscious and deliberate move to keep that FO win shining bright in people's minds rather than let them see him not replicate that success. Doubles with LXC is both a move to build a popular brand and also just a thing they really enjoy doing together. At this point LXC is probably the only male top tenner who regularly plays doubles. LXC is also the first doubles partner JGY has who actually respects his abilities as a player and doesn't make snide comments about carrying JGY with his serve. Instead LXC waxes lyrical about JGY on the return and they win, like, everything together.

JGY retires from playing relatively young and ends up director of the FO because I refuse to let realism interfere with my fantasy. He is so good at his job that the FO becomes the most diplomatic and gracious and progressive of all four slams RIP to Mauresmo but he's different. He basically becomes a leading light in tennis despite the haters, and is instrumental in providing greater financial support and resources for lower ranked players plus ploughing funding into grassroots tennis.

[phoenixcatch7]

The problem I'm having with one of my stories is that it is compelling - but not clicking.

It's a sephiroth gets reincarnated into mdzs. Straightforward. I've got several branching paths: lwj, jc, nmj (my personal fave) and the jade twins (one mind in two bodies). All five of them have great potential, but for some reason my heart is set on sephiroth!lwj, because the aesthetic is sublime.

But! It's! Not! Working!

My main problems are a) despite similar surfaces, sephiroth has fundamentally different morals and life experiences to lwj and lwjs morals are a huge part of his and wwx's stories. B) I can't NOT have wangxian. I don't ship often at all, but when I do I'm pretty set on it lol. I don't want to deny soulmates. Unfortunately I HATE writing romance. C) I do not think sephiroth should be in any sort of romantic relationship at all nor can I see him wanting one. I've read tons of fics where he is in relationships (healthy or otherwise) and they're amazing, yes, but... Under my pen it's just not in the cards. And I do feel pairing him with wwx would just amplify wwx's worst traits, which is the opposite of what lwj does for him.

Everything's in conflict, but the lure of sephiroths second childhood in strict gusu and his complicated feelings about it, wwx being a perfect mix of all his important people with a spine of steel and righteousness that they all lost as everything fell apart, the relationship between sephiroth and his new mother, and how he'd inexplicably lose her too, the white on white aesthetic, the older identical brother, the cruel angels aesthetic with the benevolent demon, the angst of wwx's defection and death, his relationship with qi as a planet's overflowing life force, the tragedy of the mourning angel, monster x monster.... It calls to me.

But there's also the way wwx becoming a demonic cultivator was so vital to winning the war, and the way that affected things, gave him a legitimacy. Involve the silver soldier, and well. Everything else becomes a little extraneous lol. And sephiroth himself is such a big mover and shaker, I don't know what I could do to manage that without wiping out 80% of the remaining jianghu after the burial mounds siege with sephiroth appointing himself king lmao. He's not the kind of person to make small ripples, you know?

And I'd love a twin jades au to sort of turn the chaos inwards a bit (nmj and jgy would be Excellent foils) but again, I can't separate wangxian and imagining scenes feels a bit too close to incest for my tastes, even when it's ONE PERSON in identical bodies!

It's frustrating, wanting to write a non romance fic set in a love story lol. I just. I hate writing romance. But wangxian just don't want to be parted.

But the image of lwj in the xuanwu cave secretly covering a feverish wwx with his wing, only to notice a handful of white feathers pushing through the black as he unknowingly becomes a better person through showing care for other people, shaking his own deep belief that he is a horrible irredeemable creature incapable of love. Caught in an act of love. Hnggh.

Any ideas?!

[mintartem]

There’s only one pair of eyes that matters to Nie Mingjue. Those scarlet orbs follow his every move as he danced across the stage.

Good

The rest of the sect leaders and their heirs and/or disciples do not matter. All that matters is the pair of eyes of Sect Leader Wen.

This is inspired by ebonykain’s post, kitsune1818’s art, and this video.

In this AU, Dad Nie died earlier than in canon (both Nie kids’ mothers died during childbirth). How he died, he either was killed during a night hunt by a powerful monster or yao, or was killed by Wen Ruohan or someone else. The Wens attacked while the Nie sect was in chaos as its heirs were still too young. Only a 10-year old NMJ and 4-year old NHS escaped and they ended up in a brothel.

NMJ begged to stay for a little bit in the brothel for a little rest. The owner of the brothel, a woman in her 30’s, told them they could stay as long as they like as long as NMJ worked there. All he had to do was clean, run some errands, cook, simple tasks like those. Until 3 years later.

A customer mistook NMJ as a prostitute and asked for his services. That gave the owner an idea. The young boy is pretty but doesn’t want to be touched. The owner knows some customers ogle at the boy. The boy has good footwork. Why not make him a dancer? The idea was proposed and she found amusement on the boy sputtering reasons until she added that his pay will increase and with that, he can buy more things his brother wants. The owner knows that this boy, A-Jue as he introduced himself, will do anything to make sure his brother is comfortable. A-Jue agreed the next day. Training him to dance starts now.

NMJ trains his golden core as much as he can. He writes down his sect’s ideals, laws, motto etc. as much as he can remember. He reminds himself his name and Huaisang’s name. They are Nie. They are from the Nie clan. He just can’t use it at the moment. NMJ is afraid he might forget. He does the Nie braids on NHS only and teaches him how to do it. His little brother braids his hair sometimes.

When the woman proposed him the idea to be a dancer, NMJ was reluctant. But increase pay means NHS can finally indulge in his luxuries, then he’ll take it (his brother enjoys painting and he loves fans. He also seems to get along with the prostitutes in the brothel. Did they teach him how to apply make-up? Huaisang has been asking to use him as his model).

NMJ started training in dancing. His (short) saber practice in the past coming in handy. Whether he likes it or not, he started focusing his powerful golden core to his physical appearance. Two years later he made his public appearance.

He was a success.

Since then, NMJ became a known dancer. It started in that small area until it spread wider and wider. When NMJ dances, he covers his face with a veil and it gets people curious on what he looks like but they’ll never see. NMJ doesn’t want them to see. The owner was reluctant at first but she then noticed the appeal of having his face covered. His eyes are appealing enough.

And that’s all I have. I imagine the reason why NMJ would be able to get close to WRH is because the Wen or Jin sect is hosting something and NMJ was hired to be the entertainer. He took it because of (1) good pay and (2) the opportunity to finally get his revenge for his sect and father.

I can imagine Huaisang as the one who is doing NMJ’s make-up, designing and choosing his clothes, plans his routine (they change it up), etc. (NHS also formed a golden core but as weak and late as canon. Looking for REAL cultivator books are expensive, and NHS doesn’t seem to be interested much to NMJ’s horror).

A screenshot of the pose:

[scaredysap]

I have a theory, specifically for The Untamed (not mdzs).

Okay so you all will remember the classic “why is NMJ pissed at JGY for Xue Yang not being executed, that’s not his fault” thing. Well, I would argue that it is in fact quite likely that it IS Jin Guangyao’s fault.

From their first meeting we get Meng Yao looking surreptitiously at Xue Yang all the way through captivity, I think I can almost see the gears turning in his head. At this point Meng Yao has been mistreated by his captain for a while, as well. Which is an interesting detail when we later learn that during a Wen raid in the Unclean Realm, the mistreating captain and his men end up as tragic casualties, woe is them! The funny thing though is that they died in the inner part of the Unclean Realm, riiiiiiiight next to a miraculously escaped Xue Yang’s cell. And on the scene of the crime? Meng Yao, who had split from the group earlier, leaving NHS behind even though we’re shown that he is consistently the one next to NHS to make sure he doesn’t get in trouble. He could have sent guards to check on Xue Yang, is all I’m saying.

So what happens near Xue Yang’s cell? Well, Meng Yao decides that instead of doing the logical thing when a mass murderer escapes in the middle of an attack - aka alert everyone of the added danger in their midst - he’s gonna stab the guy who offended him to death, the only one who had MIRACULOUSLY escaped Xue Yang’s rampage. Almost like Xue Yang left the guy Meng Yao had a grudge against behind. Weird.

Skip ahead, to years down the line, when Xue Yang again manages to escape execution. Jin Guangyao insists that it was his father’s will to keep Xue Yang alive and that there is no real proof that he murdered an entire sect of 50 people.

We know the second excuse is utter bullshit made up to sound righteous, we know Jin Guangshan has never cared about making sure someone hasn’t committed the crime they’re accused of before sending them to die (looks at Granny Wen, looks at A-Yuan, looks at Wei Wuxian, even, when accused of cursing Jin Zixun).

What I find interesting, though, is that Jin Guangshan wouldn’t really have a reason to keep Xue Yang alive either. It’s not like Xue Yang did much in the Sunshot Campaign, after all, when people talk of his misdeeds they NEVER mention his involvement with Wen Ruohan. So JGS has no reason to keep him alive…. Unless someone gives him one. Because see, Xue Yang is indeed worth the trouble since he is 1) a demonic cultivator and, more importantly 2) he has a piece of the Yin Iron.

And you wanna know who would be in the perfect position to tell Jin Guangshan both of these pieces of info, having been in the Wen’s midst AND having the information about the Yin Iron? the man, the myth, the legend: Jin Guangyao.

So, to wrap up my film theory: I think the reason Xue Yang is kept alive and taken under Jin protection for his demonic cultivation experiments, at least in The Untamed, is because Jin Guangyao gave JGS all the right reason for it to be that way.

[poorlittleyaoyao]

14, 48, and 50 for A-Yao?

14. Most heroic moment

Oh, killing WRH, for sure. MY racks up all kinds of big heroic moments during Sunshot--saving LXC! saving QS! making sure civilians are out of the way! the whole spy thing in general!--but killing WRH entailed major risk and sacrifice alongside bravery. After all, MY has a pretty good thing going in Nightless City! Torturing people is, you know, not great, but he's the trusted assistant of the most powerful man in the jianghu. In novel canon, he's one of the few people permitted to greet WRH without kneeling. In drama canon, he has direct input on battlefield strategy. This is the most power he's ever had and the most respect he's ever had. Meanwhile, a good chunk of the Sunshot coalition has treated him like garbage. And there's no guarantee people will believe that he was a spy all along rather than a coward jumping ship at the last minute, especially if LXC has died in battle and there's nobody to vouch for him. But he kills him anyway, because it's the right thing to do. (And he saves NMJ, even though letting WRH kill him would make his life a whole lot easier, also because it's the right thing to do.)

48. Scariest moment of their life

In terms of immediate, adrenaline-rush sheer terror: during the non-horny realtime version of MY and NMJ's encounter at Nightless City in CQL, NMJ almost cuts him in half with Baxia and the poor guy looks PETRIFIED. MY is saved only because WRH grabs NMJ and hauls him away. That would be TERRIFYING, because 1.) he almost died, and 2.) he continues to almost die until WRH incapacitates NMJ, 3.) he's also plainly scared for as well as of NMJ. And, as stated above, it doesn't exactly bode well for his own fate post-Sunshot!

In terms of frightening on an existential level: also in CQL, the moment he hits the bottom of the Jinlintai stairs. JGS dispatches servants to get rid of MY in the novel IIRC, so there's some plausible deniability there; maybe Jin-furen or someone else gave the order and his father had no part in it! In CQL, though, JGS is right there the whole time. JGS looked MY in the eye and chose to violently reject him. There is no doubt that his father doesn't want him. His mother is dead, he's all alone, and his ONE JOB--the ONE THING he's meant to do--he failed. If he wants to crack an unhinged evil smile to cope, he's valid.

50. A memory they’ve blocked out

Given his eidetic memory, I think JGY's problem is that he can't block things out. He remembers everything! Much of it bad! Which must be exhausting not just because that sure is A Lot to carry around, but many of the things he remembers clear as day have been genuinely forgotten by the other parties involved, so if he tries to bring them up, people will be like "lol what are you talking about? that didn't happen."

So what I think he does INSTEAD is kind of... gaslight himself? Like he does these elaborate retcons of his own memories to enable him to compartmentalize better, chief among them being "the only reason my father doesn't treat me as his son is that external forces prevent him from doing so :) and I just :) need to do better :)" until the "not worth mentioning" scene breaks the illusion for good.

[leatherbookmark]

thinking abt jin rusong again. specifically his death. sorry songsong

there was this person who argued that it was shown in an obvious manner that jgy was the one who killed jrs, because jgy explains that the dagger’s blade shows the faces of people it killed -> qs looks at it --> suddenly grabs the knife and kills herself, the obvious interpretation being that she saw jrs’s face. and it’s plausible! especially if you consider that jgy’s feelings towards his son were, shall we say, conflicted, and that he as a weaker cultivator would probably have a harder time resisting the dagger’s Murderous Aura. it would have been enough for jrs to accidentally wander into the secret torture room!

but personally i have 2 problems with it, namely

That’s Not What Sect Leader Yao Said!

jgy’s fear of other people.

ehhhhh

1) in itself is uhhh problematic because sect leader yao is not the most reliable source of information etc etc. at the same time, i feel like wwx, who managed to figure out the thing with the soul-eating goddess statues and well as everything about jgy post-guanyin, wouldn’t just miss something as obvious as this.

i’m talking about the fact that according to sect leader yao, jrs was poisoned. not stabbed. last year i made a post about it based on cql subtitles, but i checked both the japanese translation and the original novel text, and indeed: 毒殺, 毒害.

of course, one could argue that wwx doesn’t really give a fuck about jgy and the whole case is just an interesting puzzle to him. well, sometimes he goes “oh yikes”. he would have no reason to care about how exactly jgy’s kid died, whether by poison or a dagger. but again, after the events of the guanyin temple he talks about jgy’s mother, even though with his current knowledge of jgy having done It All Some Of It, it would be perfectly understandable if he gave even less fucks, bye everyone, the bushes are waiting.

2) is... slightly complicated, but basically it just doesn’t work for me characterization-wise. jgy says to nmj in the stairs conversation that he’s scared of everything -- not only the heavens, but also people. obviously, that applied to nmj in particular, but also there’s jgs, who holds jgy’s life in his hands, there’s madam jin with her less spectacular but no less painful physical abuse, there are people in general, powerful cultivators or not, who wouldn’t bat an eye before tearing him down one vicious rumor after another, and finally, there’s everyone in that he just doesn’t feel safe. he doesn’t trust anyone not to turn away from him, not to withdraw their friendship and affection when he’s not convenient or helpful to them anymore. according to his words, the man is in a state or perpetual paranoia and insecurity.

he doesn’t even tell his future wife that they’re siblings! i’m firmly in the camp They Were In Love -- otherwise why the fuck would they fight for the marriage to happen -- so imagine the state of mind jgy must have been in to hide something like This from the woman he loved. from the woman that loved him first! and fought people to be with him!

why am i talking about it? because people like to call jgy an expert manipulator, and i’d like to call bullshit.

an expert manipulator probably should not be shaking like a chihuahua for every single moment of their life. some ways of manipulating people, crowds in particular, are easy -- you don’t need to be a genius to carefully drop a few allusions to the yiling patriarch and how dangerous he might be, etc, etc, and Just So Accidentally end up with an angry mob. but i feel it it significantly more difficult to get a specific person to do exactly what you want, in particular when that person is in a state of extreme shock. you’d have to feel confident that you can predict all their reactions, and this is not something jgy would say about himself.

because... qs says she wishes she’d never met him. she slaps him. who’s to say that she wouldn’t grab the dagger and stab him? or even -- if she couldn’t bring herself to do it -- scream and say what she saw reflected in the blade? jgy knows why wwx&co are there, and he knows that another accusation wouldn’t help him. out of possible outcomes, there’s one that ends badly for qs, silencing her forever, and at least two that end badly for jgy himself. and if anything can be said about jgy, it’s that he does everything he can to survive. i just don’t think he’d risk that! also -- others could look at the dagger too, and confirm that qs said the truth, and while technically jgy could say that wellll yes, the murderer killed a-song with this dagger... it really falls apart quicker than a wet tissue.

so: either jgy is scared of everything and everyone all the time, OR he’s a skillet skilled manipulator. if he was a skilled manipulator, he would’ve avoided many unpleasant things, having manipulated people out of hurting him. he would have manipulated the jianghu into thinking he’s the best dude ever, lxc into never ever ever doubting him, and qin su into... that as well. she’d get the letter and her first thought would be ‘my a-yao would never...! someone is trying to frame him!’ and poor bicao would be dead fifteen minutes later.

(bonus: re: sending jzxuan after jzxun, i’m... not quite sure. of course, it would be perfectly valid of him to want to kill two annoying peacocks birds with one yiling laozu stone; i think the fact that everyone kissed the ground jzx walked on when he was an awkward mess at best and a pompous asshole at worst, when jgy wasn’t even the son you push into the background but a literal servant doing the dirtiest, most humiliating and unpleasant jobs, was already infuriating enough to warrant wanting at least one person dead.

still: as jgy said, he couldn’t have predicted that things would go this bad, and i choose to believe him. it would’ve been bad enough if wwx had lost control and made wn fight, not kill or injure but just fight jzx -- that would show everyone present that he’s not harmless at all, and the lanling jin sect is doing a good thing by seizing his superweapon and dealing with him. and the fact that wwx helped their case so much, well. shit happens?)

finally, 3) or my personal thinky thoughts:

if he wanted to kill jrs, thinking him an abomination, why wait? why allow him to be born at all, if he could have slipped qs appropriate herbs into her morning tea many, many times? okay, technically she could have gotten over losing the first pregnancy and asked him to try again -- but he could have refused and given her many arguments, including but not limited to “i’m still grieving what could have been”, “i’m scared it’s my fault”, or even “sooo there was this night hunt and uh. my dick doesn’t work anymore :-(”. jl was already the heir, and jgy wasn’t everyone’s favourite, so it wasn’t like it would be a huge disappointment (or a surprise) if he and qs had no children.

and like. yes, i guess “only son dying tragically as a toddler/child” would traumatize qs more, but there’s still no guarantee that she wouldn’t eventually ask him for another child! it’s a Very Weird way of purposefully making sure you never have to bang your sister again, is what i’m saying.

finally -- okay, suppose that that one sect leader really was stubborn and bitchy about the watchtowers. why doesn’t lanling jin, the richest of the sects, simply pay him to shut the hell up? i’m not saying jgy is the most logical of men, but surely that’s easier than fabricating a whole murder and killing a whole sect as punishment.

[llycaons]

ep41 (1/2): unironic 3zun shippers are so fucking stupid

I've always liked these water-carriers. not too heavy or bulky, but also probably not for more than one or two people

he's almost unrecognizable here. I don't know what it is about him

stupid idiot taking a bite that's way too big and needing to chew on it and looking stupid. you're on camera. take smaller bites you fool. look at yourself

worth noting that whatever grace he lacks in biting and chewing bread he makes up for tenfold in the speed and grace with which he stood and bowed. absolutely seamless

yeah this sucks. jgy genuinely does face harassment and discrimination from trueborn cultivators who enact violent classism and entitlement upon him

he LITERALLY didn't. you pieces of shit!

I don't agree with all of nmj's choices, because I think his evaluation of wen qing is narrow-minded and inflexible, but it's clear why he has a reputation for justice, why sl and xxc wanted to deliver to to him, and why lxc is friends with him

his robe here is so nice

still one of the funniest parts of the story. bro he literally saw you. and immediately with the trembling and the wide eyes and the denial. oh he's so good

yeah the things he throws out in desperate bids not to be killed...man will say ANYTHING

nmj putting together the pieces to declare this first-degree murder. correctly! I've seen AUs where he's a lawyer and I'd definitely prefer that or a detective to a cop

hm, a lawyer who goes to leather bars after hours. and the gym. yeah, I've got it all mapped out

hey now. this isn't fair. it's not like he paid all those people to talk shit about him. he may have played up his vulnerability in order to appeal to nmj and get protection from him, but is that really that bad?

actually wait this is so funny. nmj is like 'why the FUCK did you murder all these guys what's your game' and jgy is like trembling eyes full of unshed tears on his knees 'I am just grateful that....I got to meet you' you are such a bullshitter answer the question bitch!

DON'T SAY THAT NIE LACKEY. HE OBVIOUSLY CAN MURDER YOU. HE JUST KILLED YOUR CO-WORKER

I mean he didn't have to be such a huge dick about it and torment nmj like that or actually kill anyone? did he? he couldn't have just knocked them out?

I do wonder how much of his behavior is related to his resentment of the nies given that he started planning the murder of nmj very soon after this for no other reason than 'he got mad I murdered his commander and then kicked me out' dude he gave you a top political spot and then spared your life after murder what did you WANT

oh I know there's a shot just like this with lwj and wwx

yeah. god damn, jgy you are so so good at lying to people and gaining their trust and then stabbing them in the back

LOVE THIS SHOT. entering a brotherhood not out of camaraderie but to protect someone else who can't see what you can. sincere 3zun shippers are so stupid. nmj is never going to trust jgy again after even one lapse, he's there because he loves lxc and he wants to keep an eye on jgy. lxc loves both nmj and jgy, and has full faith in both of them. he's right about nmj, but he's a little love-drunk around jgy imo and jgy actively manipulates him further. jgy meanwhile is trying to get close to nmj to kill him and to lxc to use HIM for protection. it's delicious. I've said before that I think jgy is lying to lead lxc on, but nmj clearly hates him and doesn't trust him and he;s trying to murder nmj in turn for like, nothing. so yeah this would never romantically. obviously. it just goes against their characters far too much

his flirting is so funny. nmj is NOT pleased

whenever he says these things he like, readies himself for it then delivers the words he wants to say. like taking a breath and diving in. it's not something that I would comment on usually because some people do talk like that, but knowing he's lying make it seem that much more of a performance

cleansing is so so pretty but the evil version is very noticeably off...and like deliberately so. it SOUNDS evil. nmj. dude. you didn't hear it?

god he is so invested in his event planning

he's right though

YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE THERE. DUDE.

the fact that he's crying? dude. come on

[headshaker]

THE RESURRECTION.

It’s time to talk about why I think NHS resurrected WWX. I’m not gonna dive into anything concerning MXY or even how events unfolded. Really gonna try to zero in on why he would bother to bring him back.

THERE ARE TWO THEORIES COMMONLY proposed. The first was proposed by WWX himself : that NHS could only get his hands on NMJ’s left arm, which he could not suppress, and was forced to resurrect WWX to help. The second theory is really more of an addendum to the first: that NHS resurrected him out of a sense of friendship, that this was someone he was close to and felt he could rely on. While I don’t wholesale disagree with these, I don’t wholesale agree with them either.

To address the first point, I think it’s clear NHS knew where NMJ’s body parts were — at least 3/5. He might not have known where the head or torso were (although, personally, I would put money on him knowing the location of the torso). But, he definitely knew where the left arm was and very likely knew where the right arm was. We can bank on him releasing the left arm, and I personally would bank on him leading them toward Yi City in part because the right arm was there. Then, given that the legs are in the Saber Offering Hall, it makes the most sense for him to be aware of their location, as well as for that to be the reason he was checking on Xinglu Ridge at the same time LWJ + WWX + JL arrived. And if he knows where those three are, then it wouldn’t be difficult to figure out the location of the torso. The only one that might prove elusive despite all the years he had to search for it would be the head purely because JGY was keeping it in his treasure room. Even so, he located it in the Guanyin Temple fast when it was moved, so it’s possible he had a bead on it. Not guaranteed but possible. We do have to remember the kerfuffle in the treasure room during the Discussion Conference; could be he didn’t know the head was in there until that moment.

But, I digress. I feel we can easily say he did not need help locating the pieces of the corpse. He would, however, have needed help recovering at least some of them. The right arm in Yi City in particular would have been difficult. This could be a reason to call WWX, especially if he wanted the investigation to remain outside the hands of the sects and thus outside JGY’s notice. (lmao yeah … that didn’t happen.) But, I don’t think we can say WWX was his only option or even necessarily his best option, especially when we consider the nature of the sacrificial ritual. It’s a big, unpredictable risk for something he could handle by other means.

To address the second point, I’m not convinced that WWX and NHS were incredibly close in the book. While I think we can say they were friends, that doesn’t necessarily mean they were close. He knew him for a short while in the Cloud Recesses; then we see no further textual evidence of them interacting. That doesn’t mean they didn’t interact — and, again, I like to think they were friendly — but they probably weren’t important people in each other’s lives. In fact, I think if they had been close, then NHS might’ve tried to resurrect him sooner or might’ve been more honest with him when he was resurrected. As things stand, I don’t think feelings of friendship were a motivation for him.

So why did he bring him back? The number one reason, in my opinion, is to deal with XY. We cannot understate what a powerful demonic cultivator he was, not only capable of restoring the Yin Tiger Tally but of turning Yi City into … well, that. And, without anyone noticing! We don’t even have time to get started on him; he’s just scary. If we’re being honest, he would be too much for just about anyone to handle. This made it impossible to recover NMJ’s right arm from him and gave JGY a valuable trump card, to say nothing of his probable involvement in NMJ’s dismemberment. When you get down to it, NHS’ best hope for dealing with XY and the Yin Tiger Tally was WWX, the Grandmaster™ and not only forger of the Tally but the one to destroy half of it.

The second reason (or, rather, supplementary reason) is one I’ve proposed before: that he wanted the terrible, vengeful Yiling Patriarch. Many propose that NHS had some faith in WWX’s inherent goodness and resurrected him as some champion of justice. I find this unlikely. Remember that the sacrificial ritual is a dark and terrible thing meant to summon a malicious spirit. The point of the ritual is not to resurrect the dead. The point of the ritual is to be the last, desperate act of the wretched and hopeless. Those people ground down into such a bitter paste, with no other options, that they are willing to sacrifice not only their lives but their souls to summon a spirit powerful enough to fulfill their wishes. Consider just how terrible this ritual truly is in nature, and consider as well that MXY summoned WWX to take vengeance for him.

We, the readers, know what sort of person WWX is even at his worst moments, but the stories about him are dark to say the least, and even he is ashamed of the things he did during the Sunshot Campaign. Tempting as it is to say NHS saw to the heart of him, I don’t believe that’s true. Furthermore, I don’t think he wanted the bright, mischievous boy he went to school with. Although vengeance against JGY is the focus of the novel, I don’t believe he is the only person NHS has it out for; I don’t believe his vengeance is complete by the end of the book. Rather, he very likely bears a grudge against the majority of the cultivation world, if not all of it. A grudge that it would be a good gamble to think the Yiling Patriarch might share. If so, then, yes indeed, it would place NHS and the Nie sect in the line of fire as well, but as long as the rest of the world burned, as long as he obtained the vengeance he’d sought for so long, then it would be worth the risk. I think he hoped to manipulate events in his favor — and he did manage that — but thought that, even if he couldn’t, at least the world would burn with him. NHS, by that point, was very nearly as desperate as MXY, very nearly ready to throw away his life and soul to obtain his vengeance. And in fact, he did place his life at risk multiple times, and arguably has “lost his soul” to his misdeeds. He didn’t need a savior. He needed a calamity.

[coquelicoq]

#he's unfixable #but wen qing has the best shot evil relatives permitting #if he felt like he could trust her and also be someone she could trust #the world is their oyster #he would feel sooooo safe and locked down with wen ning happy and looked after at lotus pier #he'd be like i gave her the greatest gift of all: the thing i want #and she'd be like amazing taste baby that IS also the thing i want. let's see my cousins as little as possible promise not to turn u #into a wen satellite clan unless we're all going to die otherwise. #otherwise xichen: will never take his side because he's too reasonable. this would drive jc to bitter histrionics #nhs: lazy until properly motivated. jc might enjoy being the competent one but i think he really wants a partner. however if they develop a #henchman-evil mastermind or knight-fair lady dynamic i think that could work well with the ways jc is broken. would nhs bother? #zhancheng: lwj is only interested in making him worse specifically so he can be right about how bad he sucks. might fix him incidentally. #wen ning: could fix jc if he wanted to. doesn't want to. admittedly jc also doesn't want him to. i ship it <3 actually i ship most of these #nmj: hmmm so tough because mingjue will give u a shot if you shout but if all jc can say for wwx is 'but i love him' it's going to be canon #but worse. like uve gotta have some moral reasoning to back u up or mingjue's just going to carry on as he intended to #dage rejecting jc for justice mid-relationship would break jc so comprehensively. dage being like ok baby you've got a point would #fix him while also giving him so many new problems. insecure but all encompassing attachment here we come. jc could be so insane about #mingjue given half the chance. hearts to cql giving every boy a crush on mingjue. #chengyao: probably the only thing wn and jgy have in common is that they could fix jc but don't feel like it #bil bf: that is yanli's man. jc would never ever go there. #please don't think i don't have an elaborate fic daydream about their plural marriage they agreed to to save wwx tho #bcs i do have that daydream. i would not say it fixes jc he hates himself so much for doing this to yanli and the jiang for wwx who would #honestly rather have died than live in a world where zixuan got to marry both yanli and jiang cheng. yanli has very mixed feelings. #zixuan feels like his feelings are once again irrelevant. it's great. #chengsu: qin su could fix jc. he'd have to open himself to the possibility of being fixed first though. otherwise it's just going to be a #long slow missed connection. i think something would have to really jolt them both into it #(it being mutual trust and reliance) #professor bf: being lan wangji's evil stepmother would fix many of the things that are wrong with jc. not all of them tho #wwx: not even wwx thinks this would work. however if u told wwx it wouldn't work he'd be so insulted. #his own right hand: does he look fixed? does it look like that fixed him (via @winepresswrath)

as a jc stan it's now time for my shot at the obligatory shipping poll