bloomeng

[bloomeng]

Made a prize

Briseis

[bloomeng]

they like you too ☀︎

[bloomeng]

Sorry to send another ask but I forgot to mention that even his parents' backstory is a great setup for him realizing the Lan's values and teachings are questionable (to put it mildly)!

This is going into speculation zone but even if LWJ stays neutral abt the Wen genocide thing until the end - he could've changed his mind later on, while raising Wen Yuan. IDK man I liked the romance storyline and all but it would be nice for LWJ to crash out over realizing he fucked up Badly too, ykwim? Maybe 13 years later when WWX meets him LWJ isn't just different in the department of humor but also in the department of his beliefs and idk it's just a lot of unused potential.

Another small gripe is I notice a lot of hardcore LWJ fans don't exactly like JC and well. This is entirely a personal opinion but lowkey their dynamic would work so well. Both dudes have a chip on their shoulder again WRH, both dudes know of the last of the Wens' and WWX's living situations before they died, both think they know what's best (which they are both misguided), one of them vehemently distrusts the Wens while the other tries to stay neutral... I just think they could've played off each other well.

You're all good. We're yappers in this house. But yeah all good points.

Totally agree about JC and LWJ. I've always really enjoyed their dynamic. It used to annoy me that LWJ is possessive over WWX as if JC isn't WWX's brother. LWJ only has half the context for their relationship, and he just decides he knows what's best for WWX. Like, actually no, JC is actually pretty justified in his anger. It's complicated, and JC is nowhere near innocent, but also at that point in the story, LWJ is not really close with WWX despite being obsessed with him.

But now I find it so funny. He really inserted himself into the most unstable family drama with no context and asserts himself with all the confidence of a... man. I jest but like I actually love their dynamic. Flawed characters are fun.

I've talked extensively over the years about mdzs' flaws and strengths, so for the sake of the length of this post, I won't elaborate. I won't make you search though. These are some of the long posts I've made talking about it.

Reading back the replies on this one makes me tired. Which reminded me why I usually refrain from MDZS analysis these days.

But in case you're curious. I feel vain plugging my own stuff.

[bloomeng]

[bloomeng]

Just saw your post about LWJ and oh my god you are so RIGHT. He is my favorite, and one of my biggest gripes with his character is that he just doesn't have much of an arc on his own. I like WWX, don't get me wrong, but I feel LWJ should be able to stand on his own instead of just be WWX's love interest. So many of his important moments are just revolving around WWX, and we as the reader don't get a lot of his thoughts/dialogue about other subjects.

Like the author kind sets it up where he's the prim and proper righteous young master of the Lan Clan. And then he meets the resident 'troublemaker' free spirit, but his teachings get in the way of him properly bonding with people his age. That's already setting up an arc. And then we learn about the corrupt clan politics, including the Lan Clan's own hypocrisy and faults. It feels like the perfect setup for LWJ to get his head out of his ass and take action on his own. Except he doesn't! 13 years later, he does get a sense of humor and becomes more flexible (?) compared to his teenage self, but it still doesn't feel like a big enough change.

Even if LWJ remained neutral or on-the-fence about the Wen genocide until the end, I would've loved to see *why* he stays neutral. It's been a while since I've read the books so cmiiw, but he could've been torn about his father dying and the Cloud Recesses being burned; his tredipation (?) towards Wen Ning could've stemmed from lingering distrust instead of just being jealous WN and WWX were friends. What did he feel when he saw Wen Yuan? We see him get along well enough (well, better than JC and the rest of the cultivation world did) when he was visiting but IMO for a character that's characterized as being righteous and being there when he's needed, he should've at least felt something when he saw those people's living conditions. Sorry for yapping this long! I'm just kind of peeved over this lack of characterization for LWJ. He could've had a satisfying arc, it was literally right there!

Ahh I'm glad you understood my point. Historically, people really don't like it when I criticize LWJ. I'm truly not trying to yuck people's yum or go after the ship. I do recognize this is a romance book, but I also would like to point out that you can remove the romance from this story and barely anything changes. And this theory has been tested. Untamed and the donghua do exactly that. And from a writing standpoint, that means the romance is weak. For instance, Pride and Prejudice; the plot has a lot going on that isn't Elizabeth and Darcy, but their relationship drives the plot. WWX and LWJ have chemistry, but their romance is missing that driving aspect.

But yeah, it's always frustrated me that the story sets up a firm pattern of explaining how this classist system (because we're talking feudalism, but with magic) is harmful. They kind of hit us over the head with it, every conflict in the book is tied to this central idea. And then we end with WWX happily marrying into the system and suggesting that, because all the bad people are no longer in power, things are ok now. Like, why go out of the way to set up that (random examples) JGY's policies actually helped people, or WWX's technology made cultivation accessible, if only to imply by the end that classism wasn't the issue, just evil people. It ignores the nuance MXTX herself had so thoughtfully crafted. And I get that it would've been too much to dismantle the system by the end of the book. I agree. I think WWX's arc was more about learning how much of himself he could healthily extend. We don't need to dismantle the system to imply that it's still dangerous.

And MXTX actually implies a balanced ending. We literally see WWX's dream of living away from it all on a little farm. So then why is the ending them back in Cloud Recesses? It feels ooc. Again, we were almost there because the cultivation world is on the precipice of falling apart. LXC is devastated, likely going into seclusion. JC is unstable. JL is a child being forced to rule. NHS is uninterested in responsibility, and yet is the Chief Cultivator? Nobody has clear lines of succession. All of this is basically ignored.

Having read a good chunk of all MXTX's books, I think she gets a little too caught up in the sexiness of the romance and her charcater writing suffers greatly-- which whole separate pet peeve about WWX's treatment in this dynamic but that's another thing. LWJ is perfectly set up to highlight this ongoing theme. I so would have loved to see LWJ having to unpack all of this. For him to choose to fight because it was the right thing to do, not because he was in love with WWX. And I really thought that was going to be the plot at first, but truthfully, pre-death LWJ is so detached from the story because he's not invested in the Wens at all. He's a stagnant character.

LWJ is pretty much the only character in the main cast, not to have a character arc, with the exception of the disciples. If he had been intrigued by WWX because of his principles first and stood by his side simply because he believed in his ideas, he would've been so more interesting. He would've had real conflicts to overcome. His possessiveness towards WWX would be justified because he was ACTUALLY there to support him. His hatred of JC would make more sense. As it stands right now the book's ending is also strange because the two major characters that opposed the system, WWX and JGY, end up happily back in said system or dead. It's a weird tone to leave off on. I think the book would've been stronger if we also had one very righteous, moral character opposing the system. Again, having your main opposers also have major flaws is interesting and totally fits with their characters. Yeah WWX, JGY, and XY all have had to resort to their methods because they weren't born to nobility. It just would've balanced things out nicely if one person from the higher class actually took a stand. And I mean I love LXC, but I think it also would've been so interesting to see this contrast between him and his brother. This inaction vs action.

But because we did none of that, he feels flat, unjustified in his possessiveness, and uncaring to anyone who isn't WWX. And it gets to me because we were genuinely so close to really fun character.

[bloomeng]

I’m gonna be mean to lwj this is my warning

Just saw this person talking about how some popular mdzs artist was found out to be a hardcore zionist and they made a post talking about the irony of their fav being LWJ… and while I agree with the sentiment— it’s amusing when ppl are hypocritical about their character choices (like the thing where ppl are mad about Superman being “woke”)— but LWJ actually is wayyyyyy more neutral about the whole genocide thing in the book.

They went on this whole tangent about how LWJ’s arc was about finding out his clan upheld awful values and fought against them. And man I wish that was the arc but nothing in the books supports that LWJ did anything BECAUSE he cared about the Wens. She started to set that arc up but then it just became an obsession with WWX and I’ve always been so frustrated that LWJ never fully understands why WWX did what he did. If he actually sympathized with WWX’s stance, he wouldn’t have begged him to come to Gusu Lan with him. He did everything out his convictions towards WWX, even saving Wen Yuan was about WWX.

I get trying to fix the system from the inside out but we don’t even see LWJ doing that much. We see him leading disciples, and he does become more lenient about the rules but for the most part he never stops upholding and encouraging Lan values. In fact he drags WWX back to Cloud Recesses and fits them both into the system.

I wouldn’t say LWJ supported the Wen genocide but we really never get his opinions on like… any of the politics.

This is a petty point bc I obviously agree with the original post bc yeah fuck that artist but anyway LWJ is the perfect example of “staying neutral.”

[bloomeng]

Endlessly fascinated by Wilson’s translation describing Achilles’ hair as chestnut and his chest as hairy.

Not just because the modern depiction of him is exactly the opposite, but because the ancient depiction of him was the opposite.

I know that Achilles’ hair has been compared to fire in other translations, which could imply red or yellow (blonde) because fire isn’t just one shade, so I can actually understand “chestnut.” But it still caught me off guard.

And ok— a grown man having body hair is normal, and he would, but to specifically refer to his chest as hairy could imply a level of excessiveness, which is interesting bc in ancient Greek culture facial/body hair is associated with masculinity and age. Achilles is notably young when he goes to war, something that is often emphasized in art by depicting him without facial hair. His age is significant to his character, so it makes sense that it was often emphasized. And I mean he was famously androgynous enough to be disguised as a woman, when he was a teenager. But logically we would be in his late 20’s during the Iliad, a full-grown man, and body hair is natural. But it could also be one of those translation things where in Greek the word was untranslatable and thus “hairy” might not even be meant to be read in the context that I’m reading it. I just kinda love that it’s contradictory.

It’s also notable from a contemporary zeitgeist standpoint, that we barely get any physical descriptions of characters and what little we do have of Achilles is overruled.

[bloomeng]

Swift-footed Achilles, son of Peleus 🏹

Prints

[bloomeng]

patrochilles wip

[bloomeng]

It frustrates me when people are so angry that Jorge dared to change the Odyssey, famously one of the oldest, most malleable, adapted stories of all time. In fact changing the Odyssey is more traditional than trying to translate it all exactly, because it’s an adaptation of a preexisting oral story. Adaptation is good and healthy. You can dislike the changes, but it feels unfair to ignore what the adaptation is trying to do with its storytelling.

And this goes for any adaptation, because I’m seeing this problem play out in IWTV right now. I feel as though people forget that adaptation is different from translation. Translation is concerned with splitting hairs over accuracy but adaptation—even when it closely emulates the source material— exists separately. While the story may be similar, the goals of the author, director, whomever may be different. This obviously doesn’t absolve them of criticism— often the source material will do something more effectively— but to judge an adaptation solely on its predecessor is not engaging meaningfully with the text.

Perfect example: Some have complained that Odysseus’ lack of unfaithfulness in Epic is an egregious mischaracterization and fails to understand the nuance of Circe and Calypso. However, what some people fail to consider is that ancient history is often very sexist. The Odyssey is very concerned about Penelope’s fidelity and holds it in the highest esteem, however Odysseus is not held to the same standard. In creating a modern adaptation, I feel like Jorge wanted to even the playing fields, partly to make the story less sexist but also to not feel like we’re excusing Odysseus’ behavior by having him be sympathetic later on. He wanted a character we could root for without feeling bad about it which is honestly how many adaptations of the Odyssey are written, the only difference is they were also written during times where a man’s fidelity didn’t hold the same weight as a woman’s. You could argue that some of his choices erased nuance but in a musical format clarity is even more of a necessity. Nuance is good when it has time to develop but sometimes it’s a detriment and not an asset. It really depends on what story you’re telling.

Anyway, this isn’t to say never critique media but rather be informed. Change can be frustrating for fans of the source material, but sometimes in order to tell a better story, change is necessary. I guess what I’m getting at is, you have to gauge intent, which…. makes me sound like an english teacher.

[bloomeng]

Patrochilles sex to me is like those videos of people riding mechanical bulls

[bloomeng]

don’t think i could handle fame for multiple reasons but the pettiest is that people would say the most insane things about innocuous clips of me, observations that i wouldn’t be able to refute nor unsee. and it wouldn’t even be from haters it’s usually your own fans.

i’m not built to handle the blunt, yet accurate nature of internet comment sections.

(inspired by a tweet i saw of a clip of mads mikkelsen walking down a staircase and a fan who commented that he walks like a horse who wished to be human.)

[bloomeng]

young love on mt. pelion

[bloomeng]

I FORGOT JASON

Superman is on his way but for now Bruce has joined his family

[bloomeng]

Superman is on his way but for now Bruce has joined his family

[bloomeng]

oh my god insanely perfect take on bruce's relationship with his kids!!!! you clocked them so hard i'm a little worried they'll manifest in your living room to get their revenge on you 😭😭

for the actual ask: how do you think bruce's projection problem fared when he had to deal with vigilantes he had no real authority over? the kids who aren't b's kids basically (babs, duke, steph, you get it).

you also mentioned dick already taking up too much time so you couldn't go into your thoughts surrounding the whole thing between dick damian and bruce. would you mind (pretty please) expanding on it? they have such an interesting dynamic it's always fun listening to other peoples thoughts on them!

even if you don't have much to say on either topic, your post was a fun read and it brought an interesting perspective to the table!!

Ahh thank you!! Lowkey shocked anyone made it through all that yapping, but glad it resonated :) I know I shouldn't be surprised people read my posts on a social media platform, but I'm so used to yapping at the wall, point is I'm always grateful when people enjoy my thoughts.

Before I get into the question-- because I ofc would love to share my thoughts-- I just want to say I was really worried that people would be upset at me for not including those three as "his children," especially Duke, but when breaking down Bruce's relationships, I think it's pivotal to acknowledge canonly who is and isn't his child. The distinction matters, because it informs a lot of how he treats them.

Barbara is an interesting case for Bruce because she was the first person to choose to wear his symbol, and she did it without his permission. (Most of my context for early Batgirl comes from animated shows of the early 2000's rather than the comics, so I apologize if I misrepresent anything.) Bruce doesn't seem particularly happy about this, but unlike with Robin, he feels like he doesn't have the authority to stop her. I mean he does put up some resistance, but ultimately, he resigns himself pretty easily to her just... being there. I always got this vibe that he hoped that if he didn't let her in, she'd get bored and give up. It helped that she was Gordon's daughter, so Bruce had some connection to her, like a safety net, but it also meant he was even more wary of upsetting her. Batman would operate in Gotham with or without the police's permission, but it sure is helpful to have Jim on his side. So, Bruce takes a more hands-off approach when it comes to Barbara.

One thing about Bruce is that he's decent with kids, but horrible with teenagers. Anytime he doesn't have full authority over a child, he seems to kind of just let them walk all over him. Perhaps it's his awkwardness, perhaps fear over upsetting them, but he's really bad at saying no until it's way too late. Again, it also helps that Babs proves her usefulness almost immediately, so he has even less of a reason to tell her no. She also balances Dick out nicely and I think Bruce was relieved to see Dick have a friend his own age (I'm going off the modern version of her character where she's only slightly older than Dick). In the end, there were more pros than cons.

Bruce definitely has guilt issues surrounding Babs, the same way he does everyone in his family, but I don't think he projects onto her as much. For one, she has distance from the family-- Bruce sees her as Gordon's daughter-- and two, she's a lot blunter than the rest of the batfam. He definitely over-relies on Oracle, and Babs over-extends herself, but she's also one of the only members of the family who has no problem telling Bruce no. Their relationship manages to be fairly straightforward thanks to Babs' personality.

As for Steph, I don't think Bruce knows how to deal with her, nor does he fully want to. Their initial relationship seems to be built on their mutual impasse: Bruce's annoyance at his lack of control over her and Steph's stubbornness. Unfortunately for Steph, she didn't fill an explicit need the way Babs did, and thus Bruce didn't trust her. She doesn't help her case by being deliberately disobedient. It's not that he doesn't like Steph, but she inserted herself into his life during that period in which he wasn't equipped to handle other people's emotional baggage. Steph was also very unapologetically a teenage girl, the furthest thing from relatability for Bruce. On top of all that, she wasn't Bruce's kid, and she was involved with Tim, who also wasn't his kid at the time, so I don't think he felt comfortable exercising authority over them like that. There may have also been an element of fear that if he isolated Tim from Steph that it would cause issues between him and Tim. And even if Bruce tried to, it's clear Steph would probably come back anyway, so it was safer to just let her stay. It doesn't stop him from being annoyed, though.

Of course, this shifts over time, but Bruce and Steph remain the most dissimilar. I mentioned this briefly in the other post, but the flip side of Bruce's projection is his struggle to connect with people he can't relate to. Unlike the rest, guilt isn't really tied to his relationship with Steph, so he doesn't feel that level of obligation to her. I think he later comes to appreciate her as the batfam's social glue, but he can't relate to her for the life of him. Because interacting with her doesn't come easily, and their initial relationship was rocky, Steph suffers from a secret third thing where he just kind of ignores her until she demands his attention. Pretty much the opposite of favoritism. He doesn't know how to deal with her, so he just... doesn't. Steph really gets the short end of the stick with Bruce.

Duke is lucky because he is the latest member, and thus Bruce has matured by the time he is introduced. Duke did a lot previously to his time in the batfam to earn Bruce's respect, which sets their relationship off to a good start. I don't think Duke has to deal with Bruce's projection much. It's likely a mix of Bruce's emotional growth and Duke being pretty different from him. However, Bruce does feel a certain amount of obligation to him, which ties them together in his mind. Their relationship might be healthiest because, for once, they seem to be on the same page. Bruce and his ever-present fear of not wanting to seem like he's replacing the parents of a child under his protection finally paid off. Because yeah, Duke doesn't consider Bruce his father. Duke is under his protection, meaning Bruce feels secure enough to enforce his authority, and more importantly, Duke usually listens to him. Like Babs, Duke also seems secure enough to stand up for himself, which makes navigating a relationship with Bruce much easier. Their relationship is the most straightforward.

In general, I think the three of them escape Bruce's over-reliance and general baggage because they aren't "related" to him. Babs gets some of it just because she's been around so long, but he didn't really start over-relying on her until she was an adult, and because of the nature of their relationship, it's easier for Babs to say no. Basically, she isn't affected the way Dick, Tim, and Cass are. I think it comes down to the fact that with immediate family, there's pressure to have a specific type of bond. But they're not immediate family, so there's no pressure. He didn't raise them. Their actions don't reflect on him as a person.

Now to shift gears completely.

I might be wrong, but in my experience, DC tends to ignore the weird parental role Dick was forced to take with Damain. Maybe I just haven't read the right comics; it's very possible, but I guess what I'm saying is this might be more of my own conjecture than what lies on the actual page. Regardless, I do find the relationship between Bruce, Dick, and Damian to be very interesting.

For years, Dick has tried to separate himself from Bruce, but here we have a situation that not only forces him to become Batman, but to an extent, he has to become Bruce. Then he's also dealing with the fracturing of their family, and him being directly responsible for Tim's departure. Made worse by the fact that Dick doesn't really have an outlet, because how can he blame Bruce for "dying?" It's this amplified version of "eldest daughter syndrome."

Then you have Bruce's perspective being thrown back into the mix. Pretty much everything has changed. Damian is different. Tim is different. Tim and Dick's relationship, which used to be a stable constant, is fractured. And now he basically has this new awkwardness of reclaiming a parental role back from Dick.

I didn't bring it up originally because it's mostly repeated information. Bruce accidentally over-relies on Dick, Dick is resentful, but is forced to comply, etc. It's just extra-complicated because of all the external factors, especially in regards to Damian. I think it marks a shift in Dick's anger towards Bruce from loud and present, to quiet and simmering. It is an interesting example of how even without Bruce physical presence, the legacy he has projected onto Dick still entraps him.

It kind of has nothing to do with Bruce's favoritism, but I think about it a lot.

[bloomeng]

zoomies