#batfam racism

[starlooove]

‘Duke is normal for a bat’ just get it over with and call him a slur atp

Y’all fight to find every excuse to ignore and exclude or other him or just make him fucking boring in comparison to everyone else when that’s not the case? Like if you wanna compare missions/adventures whatever, right that’s just less run time; but y’all extend that to his personality and it’s so weird. Y’all make ‘lack of experience’ everything about him and it’s so irritating bc 3 guesses as to why we don’t have much Duke stuff? Hint It rhymes with bacism. And the crazy thing is the Duke stuff we DO have IS interesting and it has so much potential not just for him but to expand Gotham and the batfam, and even outside of that due to his relationship with the outsiders, in general but y’all can’t stomach that a black boy (BOY! Bc don’t get me started on the adultification to justify ignoring him in order to infantilize ur white faves) can be interesting or have a spotlight shone on him it’s so infuriating. I wish I could blast this into y’all’s brains over and over till you GET it

[thenonbinarydetective]

Things batfam stans need to leave behind in 2023:

Jason's Lazarus pit rage

Thinking Tim's parents were horribly abusive and hated him

Only caring about Stephanie in terms of her relationship to another person (ex: Tim's bestie/ex/gf or Cass' gf/bestie)

Treating Jason or Stephanie like they're stupid

Feral Demon Child Damian

Permanent sunshine boy Dick Grayson

Any "[blank] was the real violent Robin" discourse

Really just any reducing or sectioning of certain traits to certain batfam members and not allowing other characters to exhibit those same traits (ex: see sunshine Dick Grayson)

But also stealing traits from other characters and projecting them onto someone else (ex: Jason getting Dick's personality in fics. He is not the same type of big brother Dick is canonically)

Purposefully mischaracterizing characters for angst (ex: Dick sent Tim to Arkham, my beloathed. also again see Tim's parents)

Trying really hard to nuclearize the family. They are an unconventional family for many reasons, and that's why they're interesting.

"Alfred solos the batfam"

Making Duke "the normal one" and completely forgetting to give him an actual personality.

Cass using sign language because she can read body language (note: does not apply to YJ Cass who has damaged vocal chords)

Cass being used as a prop for her brothers

Tim being weak, woobified baby

Feel free to add on ~~

Don't send hate over these things because idgaf, they are harmful mischaracterizations, and many are built on total ignorance and often racism, classism, ableism, and sexism.

[punkeropercyjackson]

Pr*shippers really be like 'Purity Culture is so funny,like just look at all these medias with canon problematic ships!!!' and then the examples they use are like.Lolita(Humbert is an unreliable narrator who's so self-obsessed he victim blames his own stepdaughter who's life he ruined because she was 'irresisteble' and Dolores is played as an extremely tragic victim).Flowers in the Attic(a horror story where the Dollanganger family's incest is potrayed as what traumatized all of them and unwanted).Labyrinth(Jareth is the villain and Sarah never shows any signs of liking him back).Hades and Persephone(the beginner myth was Hymn to Demeter,which is about how women in ancient greece had no power to protect their daughters from older men and how it's bad and Persephone is miserable the whole time,including struggling against Hades' kidnapping and descriptions of her being a little girl).Batman and Robin(there is no evidence from og comics writers that they intended it the dynamic/archetype/trope as a pedestary metaphor and fan spectulation dosen't count because they're not the ones actually writing comics and Devin Grayson has apologized for her misenterpretations and said she wished she'd never written them and that it was fucked up on her part to).Game of Thrones is a popular one too but George R.R Martin is a raging racist and misogynist who employs propaganda and caricatures all over his books and with other badly written and especially positively potrayed examples,this is almost always the same case!!!!Historically and to this day the elements in 'dark romance' are used as punishments for poc and women and woc most of all,including trans ones and just trans people in general and disabled people and every minority fullstop!!!They are objectively not morally neutral and you have to be a really cruel and self-righteous person to ignore that!Fandom history dosen't erase real history.Fiction is not reality but pr*shippers care more about fictional people than real people and that's why they're bad.You're the bad guys in stories too for a reason and your lack of media comprehension is not the fault of your sociatel structurer 'lessers'

[bitterrobin]

Things I hate/dislike about Fanon-Damian Wayne

AKA me just bitching about the various icks of Damian portrayals in fanon that range from weirdly racist things to a blatant misunderstanding of the core character.

Whitewashing - not only in art, but in descriptions; making Damian pale or white, an "exact copy of Bruce" and having blue eyes. He'll share features with Bruce of course, but it's rare I see anyone describe him with traits from Talia or Ras or Melisande. Y'know he's still half Arab/Chinese despite Bruce being white. He should have, at the very least, a shade of brown skin and non-blue eyes.

Describing Damian like an animal (hissing, biting, clawing), calling him feral or rabid - I already have a post about how its pretty racist to constantly describe a poc character like this, so I won't go any further here. Also, rabid, really? Anyone who calls Damian that will die by my hand because it's so genuinely ignorant that I just can't excuse it.

Overuse of terms like "Blood Son", gremlin, "Demon Spawn", "Satan" - these spawned completely in fandom and its gotten to the point that I will immediately click off something if its included. Just stop using these as shorthand to describe him or joke about him. Come up with something else, or maybe just don't include Damian in a fic if he's only there to get made fun of.

Connected to the "Blood Son" term, making Damian obsessed with his biological status as Bruce's child and making him demean his adopted siblings/other adopted characters - he's only had a couple instances of this in canon comics. Once, in his introduction in the fight with Tim written by Grant Morrison when his character was still being fleshed out. Again, in a fight with Tim in Red Robin when Damian is mostly being written as an antagonist and not a character of his own. It frustrates me to no end when this is brought up because Damian's status with being Bruce's son has nothing to do with biological connection or genetics. It has everything to do with just being a son of a father that doesn't put any effort to knowing you and seeing him have deep connections to other kids that you have been raised to see as competition, not family.

Constantly having him carry around a sword/katana - this does happen in some comics, but its really not the main weapon he uses as Robin. A good majority of his time as Robin he just used the standard stuff (batarangs, grapple etc). The really aggravating part is when fics insinuate that he'd carry one around in public or in school.

Making Bruce's half of the family his good white saviors, while also making the al Ghuls evil abusers - if you demonize Talia and then prop up Bruce as a good dad who's done nothing wrong to Damian then I'm going to assume that you don't read comics and you don't have a good understanding of Damian's relationship with his parents. If you make Dick or Jason the good protective big brothers while putting down Talia or Ras or Mara, again, I'm going to assume the worst. Dick did not like Damian when they first met. Tim spent most of their time together as Red Robin/Robin hating him. Jason shot Damian point blank in the chest the first meeting they had, and then continued to threaten his life. Damian has never had a great relationship with anyone in the batfamily when he first appeared. Yes, not even Stephanie or Cassandra or Duke. With everyone, it took time for him to be tolerated much less liked or understood. Making them the ones who understood him and babied him from the start ruins his character development and his relationships with them. Only if you're writing an au where Damian is raised by Bruce, then it's excusable but still not the least bit right when handling the al Ghuls.

Making Damian ignorant or plain stupid, especially when comes to white American concepts - Damian is insanely smart. He knows what riddles are. He knows what metaphors are. He knows that Gotham is a city in New Jersey in America, and that American concepts like school clubs and sports teams and cliques and dances exist. Sometimes it sounds you're making Damian intentionally an idiot when you imply he doesn't know what a video game or a tv show is. Just because he grew up sheltered does not mean he's fucking blind. He's a kid who grew up Middle Eastern, not in another planet.

nitpick but Damian calling Bruce "baba" at every turn or throwing in "habibi" when you write ship content - I am not Arabic, but i'd feel the same kind of annoyance if someone wrote Damian calling Bruce "papa" or "padre" all the time, or randomly listing off Spanish endearments in ship fics. In moderation, it can be cute and appreciative. But sometimes it reads like you just discovered a new funny word and you're throwing it around for no reason.

Insisting that Damian should have learned morality or been punished severely by any of the bats when he first showed up - I must stress that none of them did jack shit to teach Damian any kind of morality when he appeared. Bruce met him, yelled at him, fucked off for a mission, came back and then promptly left him behind with Talia before they were presumed dead by explosion. Then Bruce straight up died. Bruce had very little to do with Damian in the early era. Dick, also, didn't really do anything in terms of actually sitting Damian down and explaining the Bat code or just general "killing=bad". He taught Damian to be Robin, and by that process, gradually got through to him about being a hero and a good person. You cannot expect good behavior from a child from the get-go if you've done nothing to teach that child. On that matter then, implying that Damian should have been kicked out of the house or beaten up on behalf of Tim as a form of punishment or a "teaching moment" is genuinely insane. You're going to abuse the already abused ten year old because he hurt your favorite character? Really? You're truly the pinnacle of an adult figure that he should respect /s.

Being annoying about Damian's attitude towards other characters - he's sarcastic and rude on purpose. It's pretty clear from the start to Damian that no one likes him, so he chooses to not like them back. If you cry about him calling Tim names, then I honestly think you don't have a high opinion of Tim at all if you think a seventeen/eighteen year old teenager would be hurt or psychologically scarred by a ten year old calling him a mean name.

Exaggerating Damian's violence and making people terrified of him - calling his fights with Tim "attempted murder" both undermines what murder actually is and undermines Tim's skill levels. The cutting the line incident for example. Obviously the action of cutting it was dangerous, but if you genuinely believe that Tim would have died from it or that he would regard it with any PTSD-level importance is (imo) kind of stupid. We always hear about the actions Damian takes around other characters, but never the canon reaction. In the 2009-2011 era, Tim was angry and annoyed about Damian. Whenever Damian did anything to him, he fought back. He would shoot back remarks, land a blow. Tim wasn't scared of Damian. They didn't even live together long enough for Tim to feel "unsafe in his own home." The second Damian became Robin, Tim left. They never lived in the same house since then, until the reboot, and even then Tim has been pretty independent and Damian has been away from Gotham more often than in it. Same deal applies to Dick and Steph and Jason and Cass, they never took Damian's actions lying down. He's just a mild annoyance to them. In fact, Damian doesn't attack them in their sleep. He doesn't try to kill them every chance he gets. He doesn't plot their demise. Every instance of Damian fighting someone in the family has either been; protective impulse, a reaction to a fight they instigated, or a sparring-type situation where neither of them are taking things seriously.

[what-shitfuckery-is-this-ew]

not liking the way people are making Duke out to be some Good perfect angel who would not in any circumstances create any chaos.

No that role is given to Tim Drake who canonically doesn't do that often. But he's white i guess.

On the other hand Duke has canonically constantly created chaos (lovely alliteration). Dude's sweet, yeah, but he's also was a vigilante who fights while injured and jumped off a bridge to escape the pigs before even getting trained by Batsy.

It's giving y'all can't see Black men as good unless they are completely pure and wholesome. They aren't allowed to have the same messiness of white men, despite the messiness making them more realistic and human.

Y'all only want caricatures not humans when it comes to POC and it shows.

[dreamingaboutsakuratrees]

Dear God how I fucking hate when people dismiss s character's traits because "that's just a facade! you as the reader have to see underneath it!!" like yeah no fucking shit Sherlock, a well written character has more than one (1) defining trait but that doesn't mean their most prominent one or the one most recognized by fandom ISN'T there

yes this is about people thinking dick grayson isn't actually a ray of sunshine, that it's just a mask. he's much more than the happy one, of fucking course, all batfam members (when written well) are, but that doesn't mean that being happy and bright is not a crucial part of his personality. he brings light to people's lives, he's a beacon of hope, that's what Robin was born for, as a light to Batman's darkness. That's what Nightwing is. He can be serious, sure. He's smart, an amazing strategist, incredibly good at fighting, he can be manipulative and morally gray and sometimes an objectively bad person. But he's ALSO funny and quippy and bright and sunshine. BECAUSE HE'S WELL WRITTEN.

Like Jesus stop making him so sad and wrong all the time just because you want so bad to go against "fanon". It's not fanon if it's literally his core trait. It's not fanon if it's what the character was BORN AS. God.

[medusamagic]

Batfam fans go five seconds without treating the arab kid like a feral animal for five seconds challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)

[shyjusticewarrior]

The irony of Meghan Fitzmartin name dropping the progress pride flag then including multiple mentions/appearances of all Tim's siblings except Duke.

[reebmiester]

me, in the marvel fandom: Why is everyone calling Sam the normal one?? He signed up to take down the government after 0.2 seconds of a pitch meeting me, in the dc fandom: Why is everyone acting like Duke is well behaved child?? He's literally a meta who was in a crime fighting gang when Bruce found him me: me: me: ah

[foxxywolf]

Here me out.

There's this girl in Damian's class that wears a hijab. He speaks to her in Arabic and they become friends and talk shit about other kids. One day a Karen mom sees this and yells, "This is America! On this land you speak the American language!"

And Damian replies, in Arabic, "There's no such thing as an American language." And she gets pissed and starts yelling but he keeps replying in Arabic. She just gets more and more pissed and leaves with her son.

The next day her son starts bulling Damian and his friend. He does nothing about this until the bully makes his friend cry and he stares at her crying face and walks to the bully who is like, "TF do you want, you terrorist?"

And Damians, "To do my religion a favour." And drops a bag on the kid and runs. And it's just chaos. Kids running and screaming, crying and all. The bomb squad, the swat, the fire department and the CIA is there all panicking about a terrorist attack. The bully is sitting in the class room in a puddle of his own pee, sobbing, traumatized and seconds away from fainting. When the bomb squad opens the bag and finds the Bible with a bookmark with a page highlighted saying," You shall love your neighbours as your equal." And on the back of the Bible, they find a note that says, "I'm an atheist."-Damian Wayne.

They are pissed. But who's gonna mess with Bruce Wayne's kids? One of the most powerful men in the world? No one.

The bully does some soul searching.

[starlooove]

No i am so serious like it's TWO comics they need to read to get a grasp on how Jason operates in the Hill. If they don't wanna read about Orpheus or Onyx running it...whatever (well actually they SHOULD read about Orpheus if not his death than at LEAST Orpheus rising to get a grasp on him but that's wishful thinking) but at LEAST read about Jason's previous stay there and do NAWT fuck up Danas character the way WFA did Duke Im 1000 percent serious bruh Im tired of the racism already here cannot and will not stomach anymore ESPECIALLY if they fuck up previously established characters and areas to prop up a white character AGAIN

[punkeropercyjackson]

At some point y'all are gonna have to confront the fact that you think brown men are ugly.I go on Atsv pinterest regularly and memes mocking Miguel O'Hara's apperance are an entire genre and it's almost never the funny goofy ahh expressions he's given but just him existing,the Atla fandom is constantly degarding Sokka in contrast to Zuko in terms of appeal and reducing Jet down to sleazebag runner up for Katara(very important note that no Kataang shipper does this and that most Jet stans are also Aang stans),Damian Wayne isn't even a brown man but a lil 15 year brown boy and gets whitewashed in fanon even more than in canon which is saying A LOT for the purpose of making him more attractive by orientalist pedos,Bruno Madrigal is reduced down to a joke and compared to rodents as if he dosen't just look like a normal ass mestizo man-Hell,he looks like my stepdad!!!If you saw him or my neighbours,you'd make a joke to not hurl and i'd punch your teeth out for it

[what-shitfuckery-is-this-ew]

i'm begging non-Muslims to not headcannon Damian as Muslim without heavy research because y'all keep saying he's Muslim just because he's Middle Eastern

[the-real-peter-parker]

you got any headcanons about the bat fam? I would love to hear

Embarrassed to say I giggled when I saw this ask. kicking my legs, twiddling my thumbs, you don’t know how happy I am to get asks again

Jason drinks black coffee but he secretly loves his 90% milk 50% sugar 3% coffee drinks. Don’t do the math. I’m right.

I think when he was still a criminal overlord he had to whisper his order off to some dude at the bottom of the ladder so if they try to gossip, no one would believe him. Also, murder

Tim tries giving him sugary coffee one day to fuck with him but Jason actually looks HAPPY and Tim knew he fucked up. Dick knows Jason and he gets him his caramel frappe with 5 pumps of French vanilla birthday cake sprinkles meth idk I don’t order drinks like that

Tim likes to snuggle when he sleeps, but he also has Bat Training™️ so if he wakes up he will smack the shit out of anyone. This includes the plushies he snuggles. Nothing happens to them, however all his s/o’s

Dick may be a grown ass man but if you put him on the playground, he is not responsible for your child. He might be the parent friend and one of the best options for a babysitter out of anyone in the batfam, but once he catches sight of the jungle gym, no one, not even God, can stop him.

Duke definitely fucks with everyone if anything mildly inconveniences him. Something out of place in his room? Racism! An accidental nudge when someone passes him? Racism! The only person genuinely concerned with their actions is Jason.

Tim does the same thing but with queerphobia. Jason baits him on purpose.

When someone drinks water around Duke when he’s wearing his suit, he will, every time without fail, ask them if they need any light to photosynthesise. Everybody hates him for it.

In order of people who spook others the most: Cass, Damian, Tim. Cass will enter any room and scare the life out of anyone, not intentional. Damian is a little gremlin child. I would be scared to deal with an ankle-biter like him. You can open a door and he’ll just be standing there with his scowl on his face. Scaring is not completely intentional, but he does want to intimidate. Tim sits too quietly. He’s so used to being on electronics that he will not move when he sits. Completely intentional. He loves watching the blood run out.

Damian does bite. It’s rare, but he’ll fucking do it. Your chances of getting bit by Robin is higher than by a cat as a Gothamite. Robin is responsible for multiple human-bites-human cases. He breaks the law for a living. What’s another one? And yes this is based on NYC stats. I live here I’m allowed

[himejoshiangels]

duke tag is particularly disappointing this morning sooo sorry for being a hater but also I loveless vagueposting and also it pissed me off

[ozs-twink-boytoy]

Hey, I was wondering if you could talk about the orientalism and racism surrounding how DC has written Talia and Damian. What kind of positive representation has DC offered using them? Any suggestions to how the negatives could this be amended, by us fans and by DC?

Hi!

I'm sorry this took so long to answer. I've assume you come from Fade tagging me on her post.

Right now I have nothing particularly smart to say about the orientalism surrounding Damian and Talia, I know it exists and I know there's examples (Talia being relegated to a Dragón Lady type and Damian being put in a vest bomb come to mind). But at the end of the day, I'm neither Arab. Chinese nor Jewish (last one in the case of Damian), so I don't think any of the things of my experiences as a POC come into place tbh

What I will say, is that the positive representation mostly come from the Fans (that's not to say DC hasn't done some baby steps towards good rep), they are the ones picking up the scraps and making something meaningful most of the time.

(This is coming from someone who despises most fanon materials and fics, btw.)

What I will say is: Listen to the fans of color, the people who are actually Arab, Chinese, or Jewish (or any mix of the three).

In fact, let's do something fun. Any person who is any of these three and is actively creating content (metas, fics, posts, etc) comment below on this post. I'll make sure to uplift your voices and to shout out you in my blog.

We can also work together if you guys want to help with my aforementioned essay on Damian and the racism from his narrative

Thanks for the ask

Tagging: @fansofcolor and @fandomshatepeopleofcolor who aside from being great blogs, can also help you answer this question.