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daydreamerwonderkid · 1 year ago

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Me, after doing 15 minutes of excessive googling on every Batfam member's birthday only to then realize I've accidentally missed the majority of them this year, and then also finding out that people are still aggressively debating over whether Bruce's birthday is April 7 or February 19, Dick's birthday happens 3-6x throughout the year, and Stephanie might have just popped into existence for all that DC cares:

Batfam birthday dates btw for anyone who needs them are listed beneath the cut:

DISCLAIMER: DC is notorious for being super inconsistent with everything and I am a mere tadpole caught in the tidal wave of DC's ocean. This post will be regularly updated with edits and corrections so please do not use it as word of law, I am begging you.

Update (8/24/23): To keep things more simple and easier for everyone I am going to start categorizing the birth dates I've collected into 3 categories.

-Most popular: Self-explanatory. These are the birth dates that have been canonized and confirmed by DC and are also more wildly celebrated by the fandom. Typically, this should be the first result you see when you google the character's birthday. But not always because DC sucks ass.

-Other date(s): These are the additional birth dates I come across that have been canonized in some form with multiple sources, but are not as wildly celebrated or popularized by DC and/or the fandom. Why am I including them here? Mostly because I don't want people coming in saying I forgot a date. But also because if I have to see this mess, then y'all have too as well.

-Potential but unconfirmed date(s): This is where I will put all the other additional dates I find, but specifically those that are lacking in complete sources or seem to be highly debated and scrutinized.

Also fun emoji ranking guide for me and me alone:

👑👑: Queen Shit. Characters with a consistent and simple birth date(s). Can absolutely do no wrong.

👑😮‍💨: In the Running. Characters who don't have a set birth date, but the mess is minor and completely DC's fault. They shouldn't have to be punished for DC's crimes.

🤡🤡: Gtfo. Shit is so inconsistent and stupidly messy that it's making me lose my shit. I'm putting DC and the characters on trial for this bullshit.

👑Alfred Pennyworth👑

Most popular: August 18

Other date(s): June 27 or August 10

Potential but unconfirmed date(s): September 19 (fml)

(Yes, I'm including Terry, fuck you lol

Also SERIOUSLY WTF is up with so many of these August birthdays!!!! Fuck, was everyone just getting crazy BUSY in November!!!! What's going on in the DC universe that is making November of all months the HORNY MONTH????!!!!)

(Mini update ((8/18/23)): Well, I just found out that apparently June 27th 2023 is also a highly debated birth date for Terry. As is August 10 2023/2024 and August 18 2023/2024. I even saw a mention of September 19 2023, but I don't know how credible that source actually is. I'm just putting it here because I'm losing my mind and I don't want someone to pop in and say I forgot it omfg I'm dying

I'm just ... why? Why is it so hard to just commit to one month and one date. I'm not even concerned about the exact year. Just commit to ONE, man.

Excuse me while I march over to DC HQ and burn the whole place to the ground iswtfg)

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on any of these. I have a massive headache now and am open to any suggestions or clarifications y'all have to offer.

Also, I'm going to fist fight Dick in a Denny's parking lot.

Update (8/17/23): So a mini post that I meant to use as a way to vent how insane Dick was making me somehow blew up way more than I ever expected it to, and now I feel obligated to clarify again that I am open to any corrections and additional info that anyone has to offer.

I'm saying this because I've noticed people reblogging this post for actual Batfam bday references and someone already pointed out I fucked up Tim's bday and now I feel bad for everyone who reblogged this post prior to that edit.

It's probably just the anxiety talking, but yeah I just wanted to put that out there.

Also justice for Stephanie Brown! She deserves to have her own special day and if I have to bully DC into giving her a canon birthday, then you bet your ass I fucking will.

(And to all of y'all who are encouraging Dick to keep running his side scam business, I just have this to say: There's an empty Denny's parking lot somewhere out there just waiting for you, too lol)

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homosexualworkaccount · 6 months ago

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Jason Todd’s “Replacement” nickname for Tim Drake, Origins and Popularisation

So, making a 2500-word essay on how a fanon nickname that only me and like two other people care about is not how I expected to spend my time in between exams.

A lot of Batfam fans are very, very much aware of the fanon “Replacement” nickname Jason has for Tim, and a lot of us very, very much hate it due to the connotations of fanon characterisation that it has. I don’t personally, I think it’s an alright enough one that fits into the established canon ones – but to be fair, I haven’t read the comics in a hot minute, so my memory could be screwy.

I got curious one day on where the nickname came from when a user on TikTok mentioned that it might’ve originated from a Batfam incest fic (They weren’t too sure and told me to take it with a grain of salt) – so shout out to them for starting me down this rabbit hole! I looked over on here and saw that notion repeated, though no one could pinpoint me to a specific fic beyond “It was popularised from a Batfam incest fic.”. I also saw a few people say that it was derived from canon, which piqued my interest further so I decided to go down a rabbit hole of fandom history purely for some fun.

The aim of this essay is just to clear up some misconceptions around the origin of the name, all fun and no harm. Don’t send harassment to people referenced in this either over a silly nickname, it's been well over a decade since they wrote the works used here.

Preface

Alright, first things first – all sources are going to be ones that were published after August 2005, the official date the first issue of Batman: Under the Red Hood was published, where Jason was established to be alive again.

While there could be a chance that the nickname was derived from a website/fanfiction before 2005, it’s highly unlikely due to the fact it was only popularised in the early 2010’s, and well, because Jason was dead and no one gave a shit about him. Also good to remember that most websites that ran before 2005 are defunct and purged from the internet now, particularly fanfiction websites (such as Quidzillia) due to various issues (taboo, copyright, costs to run ect).

Small note to make again – the Batfam fandom was fairly small at the time, the more fandom-y part of the DC community usually sticking to their own websites like Quotev, Quidzilla (again, defunct now), AO3, Fanfiction.net, LiveJournal and independent websites (again, defunct) while the rest stuck to discussion sites, so the entire fandom functioned more as a insular community from what I could tell. I will be working with the assumption that the nickname was created on one of the larger platforms, as any other platform didn’t have large enough influence to popularise the nickname.

The nicknames that I specifically looked for was simply Jason calling Tim Replacement in place of his actual name. Something like “Replacement Robin” was on very thin ice, but still counted as an offshoot. Anything else was off bets.

This whole thing will be split into a few sections to make some things for myself easier. Preface, Sources, Pre-cursor Fanfiction, Fandom Opinion and Language, First usage, Popularisation, Conclusion, Questions, Final Notes.

Sources

Fanfic.net – Created 1998, was and remains one of the larger fanfiction sites. Note; Fanfiction.net had various periods of time where there were large scale purges of fanfictions that held more mature content. Most notable instances were in 2002 and 2012.

Archive Of Our Own – The holy grail for my research. Created in 2008. For the information I got from there I used the search filter Date Updated, tagged Jason’s and Tim’s individual tags and followed from there.

Live Journal – Created 1999 and was used as one of the larger sites for fandom and fanfiction. Was used by DC fandom goers regularly so I used it to get an idea of the fandom at the time.

Tumblr – Created 2007. Theres various people on here who have compilations on DC timelines and comic sourcing that helped me correlate fandom growth with specific comic releases (Shout out to @ectonurites for their meta posts and timeline posts, they were a major source for this!). Dogshit filtering system, so I couldn’t find posts pre 2012 about DC.

Note; Quotev and Wattpad weren’t used in this as their filtering systems don’t account for searching for older fanfictions, so sadly had to be discarded as most fanfictions between 2006-2010 on those websites are now very difficult to find.

Pre-Cursor FanFiction

So, before we get to the actual first proper use I could find of “Replacement”, I first want to mention a fanfiction that had something very similar that I think would be important purely for archiving reasons around how the nickname came to be. And also because it fits the nickname criteria I mentioned earlier.

Published on the 29th of November 2006, last updated on the 28th of November 2007, was the fanfiction My-Enemy-My-Brother on Fanfiction.net by user theunknownvoice – featuring the first use of Jason referring to Tim with a nickname including replacement, Replacement Robin. Kudos to theunknownvoice, they created the very first nickname that would kickstart the rest.

While Jason doesn’t explicitly refer to Tim as Replacement – the main subject of this essay, it comes very damn close, so I wanted to include it. There is a part where Jason repeats replacement in his head multiple times, and I think he’s supposed to be referring to Tim, but the sentence isn’t very clear on that part, so I won’t count it, but it is important to acknowledge.

Though this isn’t the fanfiction that influenced the development of Replacement. This fic had barely enough reach to influence any future works years later. I couldn’t find any connection with this work and later works that officially did just have Jason call Tim “Replacement”

Fandom Opinion and Language at the time

I promise this is important and that I’m not a pretentious linguistic, English isn’t even my first language.

I like to think we all know how fandom discussion just seeps into fanfiction (See; the nickname green bean for Deku from MHA leaking into fanfiction) so I just want to quickly point this out.

Discussion around the two blew up after Jasons return in late 2005, people going “What does this mean” and “What does that mean for Tim”. Through the few posts I could dig up from this time and up to 2011, it seems people came to the conclusion that Tim was Jason’s replacement, and that their dynamic was Jason dealing with the fact that he had one. You can definitely see that in some of the posts and fanfiction written at the time that usually had Jason dealing with Tim being his replacement.

(Just a few examples from LiveJournal but more like this are still floating around, if they aren’t deleted anyway)

It’s very likely that the authors themselves engaged in similar discussions/had independent thoughts that ended in the same conclusions, seeping into the fanfiction itself later. In the comics pre-New 52 I couldn’t find any major instance of Jason explicitly referring to Tim as his replacement (only implied through speech), so this was mostly contained in fandom discussions from what I can tell. (Note, this was probably similar on comic discussion websites, but I couldn’t find any that still exist pre-2007, so I’m going to assume literacy skills are not any better on those sites. See; Batman dick riders)

The fact that Tim is explicitly described as having replaced Jason, and sometimes as “Being the Replacement” on posts/fanfiction definitely had a hand in the creation and popularisation of the nickname, influencing the fan content made around the two.

First usage of Replacement

Cain! Cain! Is the first use of the nickname Replacement really from a Batfam incest fanfiction?

Nope, thank God.

After filtering their character tags together on AO3, going to the oldest page and clicking through over 10 pages, reading every single fanfiction on each one (yes, even the weird ones, I was dedicated) I found the first instance where Jason explicitly refers to Tim as Replacement, that still exists today anyway.

Published on the 24th of January, 2009 by user shiny_glor_chan, is the fanfiction Four Calling Birds, a fanfiction detailing Stephenie Brown returning from faking her death (a whole headache from the comics that I can't be arsed to explain) and getting to meet Jason and Dick for the first time. Genuinely sweet, and a corner stone of fandom history, officially. Hip hip Hooray! Congratulations shiny_glor_chan.

I tried tracing to see if this person had any other accounts that I could find to see where they got the nickname from, but it seems it’s mostly a nickname they thought up out of the fact that they had consistently wrote Jason explicitly stating that Tim was his replacement

And reading through several more pages of fanfiction again, feeling like I want to bleach my eyes out, I found the second instance of the nickname being used. Published on the 26th of May, 2010 by user axiel-neesan, is the fanfiction The Only Piece You Get, where Jason basically acts as Tim’s cabbie and bonds with him. Another corner stone of fandom history, hooray.

These two authors are completely unrelated and have no connections to each other besides both frequenting LiveJournal, having taken prompts and having friends from that website, despite having no accounts I could find. I personally think they had a similar train of thought of “Huh, that would be a sick ass nickname.”. Chances are that axiel-neesan saw shiny_glor_chans fic and got inspired as the fandom was dead small on AO3 at the time – around 20 pages worth of fanfiction from 2008-2010 (And thats being generous if we’re counting now deleted ones)

These two fanfictions are immensely important because it’s the only early instances I could find of the nickname being used, and for about two years after the nickname pops up occasionally – but by no means was it popular, or even regularly used, I had to look for the fanfictions that used it.

Props to shiny_glor_chan and axiel-neesan! I pray that you two don’t see what the fandom thinks of that nickname now.

Popularisation

Early 2012 saw the proper explosion of fandom for the Batfam, and by extension the nickname.

By this point there were so many fanfictions that I couldn’t read them all, so I started picking random ones that tagged Jason and Tims relationship, platonic or not. Pre-April-ish of 2012 the nickname popped up every other page or so, but sometime after mid-2012 the nickname was in almost every fanfiction that I skimmed through – so that’s its official growth period.

Why though? Several factors probably.

The New-52 was in full swing by this time, DC massively promoting the reboot to get new fans interested, so people picked up comics from there. Young Justice – the more mainstream exposure of DC to surface level fans aired its second season in April of 2012, introducing people to Tim Drake and his story and getting them interested. Fanfiction and fandom as a whole was becoming less taboo and more accepted in fan spaces, so encouragement to write it was much better than it was in the early years of the internet (Example; Teen Wolf’s production team)

As for a specific catalyst for the growth of popularity for the nickname? There might be something worth pointing to.

Kudos for @ectonurites for helping me on this (Hi Sam! I was anon!) and giving me a publishing date on Tim’s and Jason’s first New 52 interaction – Red Hood and the Outlaws #8, published on the 18th of April, 2012. It features an instance of Jason and Tim interacting in a very friendly and familial way, Jason explicitly calling Bruce their Dad. Compared to their last major previous interaction of Jason leaving Tim for dead, fans of the two who enjoyed the more familial potential (and tragically, romantic potential) took it and ran with it.

All of these combined in some way to contribute to the popularity of the nickname in mid to late 2012, and lead to it’s infamy in DC fanfiction.

Conclusion

In conclusion, how do I think the nickname came to be?

I think it’s a combination of factors that led to it’s creation. As already established people very much did see Tim as Jasons replacement at the time, and the language could have shortened down from “Tim replaced Jason” to “Tim is Jason’s replacement” to “Tim is the replacement” which I think could be the train of thought the 2006 author went down to create the nickname Replacement Robin.

This definitely influenced the AO3 writers as shiny_glor_chan was present on LiveJournal at the time (where this language was very prominent), so they were already down the line of thinking this and probably went “Huh, replacement is kinda a funny nickname” and added it. As already stated, I think axiel-neesan probably had a very similar train of thought or may have seen shiny_glor_chan’s fic and was inspired.

And from there people saw it, used it in their own works, getting leaked over onto LiveJournal, which was the main website for prompt sharing, getting used a decent amount there before the explosion of fandom in mid-2012 that lead to it’s regular usage in fan works.

Questions

So, is the nickname from a Batcest fic?

Nope! The nickname mostly makes an appearance in platonic fics between Jason and Tim, it’s actually a chore to find it in their romantic ones, as in I think I found one instance of it being used somewhere in late 2010 but I can't think of it in a fanfiction that predates that. All early uses of the nickname were in platonic fics between the two.

I think this rumour is based around three fanfictions specifically on Ao3 that people are pointing to, I think, no one seems to be wanting to name names. They’re the ones that pop up when you search Replacement in the word search after tagging Tim Drake and Jason Todd together.

Wings to Fly. Published October of 2012. Jason Refers to Tim as Replacement. Jason/Tim

Replacement. Published 2009. The title implies it’s referring to Tim, but Jason never explicitly nicknames Tim replacement, the narrator only calling Tim “His replacement”, him being Jason. Jason/Tim. Non-con

The Replacement. Published 2011. Can't figure out if the title is supposed to refer to Tim or is simply just titled that for the sake of it. Jason talks a few times about Tim being his replacement, but the nickname never makes an appearance. Jason/Tim

Does the nickname have any bases in Canon?

From what I can tell, no. I haven’t read all the Batfamily comics Pre-New 52, or from after Batman: Under The Red Hood, I mostly stray towards Hal Jordans comics lol. I don’t think theres any major instance where Jason talks about Tim replacing him by specifically using replacement or replacing (It can be inferred from his speech sometimes, but Jason’s relationship with Tim was much more complex than that. I’d recommend reading @ectonurites metas about the two to get a better idea) Theres a few instances in 2015 post-New 52 reboot where Jason says explicitly that Tim replaced him, but that was way after the nickname was popularised.

Red Hood and Arsenal #7 (2015)

Final Notes

That’s about it! That’s the result of my month long dive into almost twenty years worth of DC fandom history as a fun side project. Please don’t harass anyone linked here, this was just project to pass the time and not a call out post for anyone that did contribute to the popularisation of the nickname.

Feel free to ask me anything else about this or any other DC fandom history and I’ll try to research it!! This was genuinely a fun thing to do to pass the time and work out my research muscles.

#Fun little side project in the mist of my exams #Im finished soon though so I will be going back to regular posting!!!#Fanfiction and other rambles #probably DC and Mortal Kombat #DC #dc comics #Red Robin #Red Hood #Tim Drake #Jason Todd #Jason Todd meta #Tim Drake meta #DC meta #Fandom history #Essay #batfam #batfam meta #batfamily

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notmoreflippingelves · 2 months ago

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A Timeline of Dick Grayson's Unrelenting Trauma Era (circa 2004-2006 in comics)

So as I was coincidentally reading the Outsiders (2003) and Teen Titans (2003) runs, I became gradually aware that some of the events were overlapping timeline with the Batfamily "War Games" arc. As I had previously become aware that "War Games" overlapped both the Blockbuster + Tarantula arc (Nightwing) AND Under the Red Hood, I became shocking aware of how many new traumas were rapidly piling onto Dick Grayson in very quick succession across multiple ongoing series.

So I did a lot of reading of both specific comics that I had read--and summaries of a few that I hadn't-- to do my best to make a definitive timeline of this absurdly stressful period in Dick Grayson's life. (Most of which seems to have occurred with around 6 months or less).

(I am no expert so feel free to add/clarify anything that I may have overlooked or misinterpreted).

#dick grayson #nightwing #dcu #dcu meta #dc meta #dc comics #batfam meta #batfam #war games #under the red hood #catalina flores #can you imagine dan didio signing off as editorial director for all of this sh*t to be pilled on Dick Grayson?#and then still having AUDACITY to be giddy about the prospect of killing Nightwing in the upcoming Infinite Crisis?#Then being so angry about his writers refusing to kill Dick that over an decade later;#Didio writes an entire comic about the world would be a better place in every way if he'd been allowed to do it #anti dan didio #meta #the fact that this is nearly 6 full pages and there are still some minor things I left out--plus probably other things I didn't know about

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argentinpantsuit · 1 year ago

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There is something so fucking heartbreaking about Cass in Batgirl (2000) and i think its the way that she can forgive murderers and killers she can and will attempt to save a man from death row just because she believes they could of changed . She values human life to an absurd degree and in her perception every person matters and deserves to live . Every person except Herself .

She has a death wish constantly puts herself in danger risks her life fighting Shiva and very explicitly in the text wants to die and for what . . Because she killed a man at age 8 . After being horrendously abused and trained for murder by her father.Cass who loves and cherishes absolutely every one no matter what .Cass who saves Lady Shiva - Who has killed hundreds. She won’t kill Lady Shiva who chose to kill . But she wont forgive herself She who had no choice who killed a fatcat mob boss who largely probably brought no good to the world.

And she still wants to die because she doesn’t believe she is a good person.

Its a testament to her complete adoration and worship of life and her nauseating abuse at David Cain hand’s.

Because even after everything she still doesn’t truly believe her father a bad man for putting her through all that nightmarish abuse . She strictly views him as bad because he forced her to kill . It wasn’t her fault AND SHE KNOWS THAT.

But she still doesn’t forgive herself even if she can forgive anyone else on the planet. She still wishes for death.

#cass my baby #cassandra cain #cassandra cain meta #dc #dc comics #cass cain #dc meta #batfam meta #i adore batgirl (2000) i own every comic she appears in

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sxnshxnxxnddxxsxxs · 9 months ago

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why do people always have damian refer to talia as mother or talia?

now i’m gonna preface this by saying i don’t speak arabic nor am i arab but arab people feel beyond free to just tell me to stay in my lane.

that being said it makes zero sense to me that damian refers to talia as mother or her first name. this goes for both canon and fanon.

mother makes no sense to me because he wouldn’t have grown up saying mother, like you expect me to believe that in nanda parbat damian was referring to his mother in english absolutely not. and while i understand the idea that once he moves to gotham he tries to assimilate i don’t think he would do that my addressing talia as mother. like he might say my mother when referring to her in general. but when actually speaking to her or about her to her family that just feels very unnatural to me.

talia also makes no sense to me. like is to showcase their tumultuous relationship sure okay but i have never in my life seen or heard of a brown person or a poc in general directly refer to their parents as their first name. like when they’re not around sure but as a direct address never. i say this as a poc myself. like you expect me to just believe that talia would allow that. absolutely not. like no matter your stance on respectability politics i feel like addressing your elders with the appropriate respect is a pretty universal thing especially among poc. and you can still portray a tumultuous relationship between parents and children without having an element that’s so aberrative.

i think it especially pisses me off in fanon because people love to have damian refer to bruce or dick as baba as like evidence of their improving relationship but then have talia be called talia or mother. and if the reasoning is that damian and talia’s relationship is so bad that he’s doing this purposefully to put this space between them then that should be demonstrated in the narrative. that this is a recent change, an unnatural one, it isn’t instinctual, but it is purposeful. i mean there are also other issues with talia and damian having a horrible relationship but i find that most of that comes down to talias post 2001 characterisation so i wont go into it but i defo think writers should keep in mind. no media is ever created in a vacuum.

anyway from a little bit of research i’ve done i’ve found that yumma, ommah and omm are all very common ways to say mother. there are loads of different ways to say mother because arabic has so many different dialects. i’ve also found out that ommi el-habiba means my beloved mother which i could totally see damian saying really bitingly if he is fighting with talia.

once again arab people feel free to correct me or tell me to mind my business. but also i think about this a lot like even mama makes far more sense to me than mother or talia

#damian wayne #damian wayne al ghul #talia al ghul #dc batfam #batfamily #bruce wayne #dick grayson #robin #batman #batfamily headcanons #batman meta #batfam meta #sunshine’s rambles

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fantastic-nonsense · 1 year ago

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Who do you think are the top 5 detectives in the batfamily? Hope this doesn't sound too random lol but I enjoy your opinions a lot

Keeping in mind that everyone in the Batfamily is an excellent detective and this is effectively a "best among the best" ranking:

Bruce

Dick (this is canon. it's been stated and shown several times)

Babs and Tim in a tie, largely because they have such different methods and approaches to problem-solving/fact-finding it's difficult to compare capabilities

....honestly probably Damian? Or possibly Jason. Depends on the circumstance, I think. Damian has a greater diversity of base knowledge about things and a fantastic theoretical education, Jason has more experience and an intentionality of practical training in certain areas that Damian hasn't.

#batfam #asks #thank you for the ask!#batfam meta #bruce wayne #dick grayson #barbara gordon #tim drake #damian wayne #jason todd

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bitterrobin · 8 months ago

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Things I hate/dislike about Fanon-Damian Wayne

AKA me just bitching about the various icks of Damian portrayals in fanon that range from weirdly racist things to a blatant misunderstanding of the core character.

Whitewashing - not only in art, but in descriptions; making Damian pale or white, an "exact copy of Bruce" and having blue eyes. He'll share features with Bruce of course, but it's rare I see anyone describe him with traits from Talia or Ras or Melisande. Y'know he's still half Arab/Chinese despite Bruce being white. He should have, at the very least, a shade of brown skin and non-blue eyes.

Describing Damian like an animal (hissing, biting, clawing), calling him feral or rabid - I already have a post about how its pretty racist to constantly describe a poc character like this, so I won't go any further here. Also, rabid, really? Anyone who calls Damian that will die by my hand because it's so genuinely ignorant that I just can't excuse it.

Overuse of terms like "Blood Son", gremlin, "Demon Spawn", "Satan" - these spawned completely in fandom and its gotten to the point that I will immediately click off something if its included. Just stop using these as shorthand to describe him or joke about him. Come up with something else, or maybe just don't include Damian in a fic if he's only there to get made fun of.

Connected to the "Blood Son" term, making Damian obsessed with his biological status as Bruce's child and making him demean his adopted siblings/other adopted characters - he's only had a couple instances of this in canon comics. Once, in his introduction in the fight with Tim written by Grant Morrison when his character was still being fleshed out. Again, in a fight with Tim in Red Robin when Damian is mostly being written as an antagonist and not a character of his own. It frustrates me to no end when this is brought up because Damian's status with being Bruce's son has nothing to do with biological connection or genetics. It has everything to do with just being a son of a father that doesn't put any effort to knowing you and seeing him have deep connections to other kids that you have been raised to see as competition, not family.

Constantly having him carry around a sword/katana - this does happen in some comics, but its really not the main weapon he uses as Robin. A good majority of his time as Robin he just used the standard stuff (batarangs, grapple etc). The really aggravating part is when fics insinuate that he'd carry one around in public or in school.

Making Bruce's half of the family his good white saviors, while also making the al Ghuls evil abusers - if you demonize Talia and then prop up Bruce as a good dad who's done nothing wrong to Damian then I'm going to assume that you don't read comics and you don't have a good understanding of Damian's relationship with his parents. If you make Dick or Jason the good protective big brothers while putting down Talia or Ras or Mara, again, I'm going to assume the worst. Dick did not like Damian when they first met. Tim spent most of their time together as Red Robin/Robin hating him. Jason shot Damian point blank in the chest the first meeting they had, and then continued to threaten his life. Damian has never had a great relationship with anyone in the batfamily when he first appeared. Yes, not even Stephanie or Cassandra or Duke. With everyone, it took time for him to be tolerated much less liked or understood. Making them the ones who understood him and babied him from the start ruins his character development and his relationships with them. Only if you're writing an au where Damian is raised by Bruce, then it's excusable but still not the least bit right when handling the al Ghuls.

Making Damian ignorant or plain stupid, especially when comes to white American concepts - Damian is insanely smart. He knows what riddles are. He knows what metaphors are. He knows that Gotham is a city in New Jersey in America, and that American concepts like school clubs and sports teams and cliques and dances exist. Sometimes it sounds you're making Damian intentionally an idiot when you imply he doesn't know what a video game or a tv show is. Just because he grew up sheltered does not mean he's fucking blind. He's a kid who grew up Middle Eastern, not in another planet.

nitpick but Damian calling Bruce "baba" at every turn or throwing in "habibi" when you write ship content - I am not Arabic, but i'd feel the same kind of annoyance if someone wrote Damian calling Bruce "papa" or "padre" all the time, or randomly listing off Spanish endearments in ship fics. In moderation, it can be cute and appreciative. But sometimes it reads like you just discovered a new funny word and you're throwing it around for no reason.

Insisting that Damian should have learned morality or been punished severely by any of the bats when he first showed up - I must stress that none of them did jack shit to teach Damian any kind of morality when he appeared. Bruce met him, yelled at him, fucked off for a mission, came back and then promptly left him behind with Talia before they were presumed dead by explosion. Then Bruce straight up died. Bruce had very little to do with Damian in the early era. Dick, also, didn't really do anything in terms of actually sitting Damian down and explaining the Bat code or just general "killing=bad". He taught Damian to be Robin, and by that process, gradually got through to him about being a hero and a good person. You cannot expect good behavior from a child from the get-go if you've done nothing to teach that child. On that matter then, implying that Damian should have been kicked out of the house or beaten up on behalf of Tim as a form of punishment or a "teaching moment" is genuinely insane. You're going to abuse the already abused ten year old because he hurt your favorite character? Really? You're truly the pinnacle of an adult figure that he should respect /s.

Being annoying about Damian's attitude towards other characters - he's sarcastic and rude on purpose. It's pretty clear from the start to Damian that no one likes him, so he chooses to not like them back. If you cry about him calling Tim names, then I honestly think you don't have a high opinion of Tim at all if you think a seventeen/eighteen year old teenager would be hurt or psychologically scarred by a ten year old calling him a mean name.

Exaggerating Damian's violence and making people terrified of him - calling his fights with Tim "attempted murder" both undermines what murder actually is and undermines Tim's skill levels. The cutting the line incident for example. Obviously the action of cutting it was dangerous, but if you genuinely believe that Tim would have died from it or that he would regard it with any PTSD-level importance is (imo) kind of stupid. We always hear about the actions Damian takes around other characters, but never the canon reaction. In the 2009-2011 era, Tim was angry and annoyed about Damian. Whenever Damian did anything to him, he fought back. He would shoot back remarks, land a blow. Tim wasn't scared of Damian. They didn't even live together long enough for Tim to feel "unsafe in his own home." The second Damian became Robin, Tim left. They never lived in the same house since then, until the reboot, and even then Tim has been pretty independent and Damian has been away from Gotham more often than in it. Same deal applies to Dick and Steph and Jason and Cass, they never took Damian's actions lying down. He's just a mild annoyance to them. In fact, Damian doesn't attack them in their sleep. He doesn't try to kill them every chance he gets. He doesn't plot their demise. Every instance of Damian fighting someone in the family has either been; protective impulse, a reaction to a fight they instigated, or a sparring-type situation where neither of them are taking things seriously.

#a lot of these amount to ignorance leading to racism or making Damian white and stupid or exaggerating his traits into something monstrous #funny how fandom does that a lot #damian wayne meta #damian wayne #dc #a painted bird called tamer #batman #robin #batfamily #batfam meta

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pdxtrent · 1 year ago

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I try not to have a favorite Robin, I like different things about each of them. But I do like ASPECTS of each of them best. And Tim is absolutely the most unhinged of the Robins.

On a meta level this has a lot to do with the era when Tim started being written as Robin. Like, unless your a genXer or elder millennial you just don’t understand. That’s how we were raised. Our parents usually only had the vaguest idea where we were and only found out if the cops got involved (or you had the bad luck to run into one of their friends when you were 2 miles from home getting candy and soda from that awesome little store that was the opposite direction from the major road you were forbidden to cross for a perfectly random example that didn’t get me grounded for a week). There is a REASON genX invented helicopter parenting. But I digress.

One of my favorite early panels of Tim is this one:

Tim the Liar is a recurring thing. He doesn’t do it a lot, but it’s a lot more than the other Robins.

Which brings me to why I decided to post this. This panel:

I firmly believe Tim thinks he’s about to die. He’s been feeling isolated and alone, and isolating himself further from the ones that remain. He keeps throwing himself into incredible danger without backup. He is almost certainly passively suicidal. And if you want supporting evidence, there’s this:

Because by inference, he feels like there was nothing left.

And so, Tim being Tim, he lies to Dick. To Batman.

#batman #batfam #tim drake #red robin #batfam headcanons #batfamily #batfam meta

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tiffanybluesclues · 8 months ago

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Birds of Prey (1999) #43, July 2002 [Dixon]; Robin (1993) #126, July 2004 [Willingham].

Robin (1993) #88, May 2001 [Dixon].

Robin (1993) #106, November 2002 [Lewis].

Batman: Gotham Knights #37 & 38, March & April 2003 [Beatty].

Robin (1993) #131, December 2004 [Willingham].

Several panels about talent and suitability, presented without further comment except to say: Batman I'm gnawing on your drywall.

#that 'he was born for this work' was my villain origin story btw #there is so much callousness and hypocrisy in that compliment #blah blah blah insert relevant observation here about being a judge of talent and dc meta about the characters in question #stephanie brown #batfam meta #black canary #batman #dc comics #what happened to not endangering children and wanting them to be able to live a normal life?#and the kid who had to work extra hard to make up for some 'natural abilities' that he lacked was now 'born for this'???#*that post that says when bruce pictures the perfect robin he 1st pictures dick as a kid and 2nd he pictures tim's perfect soldier robin*#early 2000s batman was deep in the 'no child vigilantes unless they'll be my little soldier' trenches for real #dc meta #steph #tim #bruce

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astronomic-explorer · 2 months ago

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thinking about how tim's early days as robins is an omen for the events in the red robin run (2009-2011)

like he's trying to drag bruce out of his depression in the face of jason's death and lead him back to the ideals he knows that bruce cared about. bruce in his right mind wouldnt be as brutal as he was in that time, and tim knew bruce didn't want to be that way. bruce is being violent, isolating himself, and isn't thinking things through, which is exactly what happens in tim's first expedition as red robin.

he's distraught over the deaths of his parents, his friends, and is dealing with his gf back stabbing him, dick not believing him, damian vying for his downfall, and losing the familiarity that came with the robin mantle. on his quest, he's not thinking things through

anyways. parallels symbolism aaaaa

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crookedunknownarbiter · 9 months ago

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If you think about it Tim and Dick became Bruce’s sons later they eventually saw him as a father but they were his partners frist like how in the 90s it was the Wayne family and the batfamily with Tim being a bat but not a Wayne until his becomes both and how Dick started as his ward and became his son.

But Jason and Damian have always been Bruce’s sons it was essentially their whole point to make the Batman and robin dynamic into a father and son one and not just a mentor and mentee one and they like died because of it like Jason died because ppl didn’t like that Batman had a kid so Tim was distinctly not his kid and Damian died because of who his father was too

They were all damned by their relationship in a way not matter the form because the narrative demands it but I really do like how the distinction in the characters can influence Bruce’s relationship with them with this context and I think you can see a shift in mainly Tim when he went form faking an uncle so he wouldn’t be Bruce Wayne’s kid to insisting that his name is Drake Wayne

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the-ghost-of-jason-todd · 7 months ago

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been seeing a lot of "who is bruce's favorite kid" posts/discussions and i think it's hard to talk about it without also talking about the different ways he loves/interacts with each of them, and their specific relationships over time.

like... his love for dick is the oldest, the thickest flowing for how long it's spent carving out a place in his heart. he understands dick instinctively, like an extension of himself. not his own body, but something vital to it. he remembers life before dick, but that memory shrinks with every passing year. dick will always be the one bruce thinks of/reaches for first.

jason, on the other hand... their relationship is shaped by jason's death and bruce's grief. the life they had, bruce and jay, batman and robin, the father and the son, was brutally decapitated right in front of bruce's eyes, in some ways before it could even truly take form. bruce cannot forget jason--the loss has made a home inside of him. jason will always be the one bruce screams for the loudest.

and so on, and so forth. i think damian is the one bruce fights for the hardest (he's failed him so much in such a short time, it doesn't matter that he didn't know he existed--), but tim is the one bruce relies on the most (because somehow tim was able to bring him back from the brink, was able to give him back control when he was spiraling out). cass is the one he's hardest on, the one he focuses most intently on, but only because she's so like himself. etc etc etc

you know what i mean?

#liveblogging batfam #batfam #batman #batfam meta #meta

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noodlethoughts · 2 years ago

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I’m just saying, Matilda was definitely one of Tim’s favorite childhood movies. A worryingly independent and smart kid using the tools available to her, defeating the villain and finding her true family in the process. Sound a little familiar?

#batfam headcanons #tim drake headcanon #batfam meta #tim drake meta #matilda

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fiapple · 2 years ago

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something i love about huntress (1989) is just how succintly its opening scene builds up helena as a character & the overall themes of her narrative.

the comic opens on western society’s prototypical idea of a victim, a young white woman (that fact having its own horrid political history should be acknowledged)- fashionable for her era- walking alone at night, and being followed by a man with a knife.

Immediately, the scene visually cuts between the young woman & helena, tying them together in the eyes of the audience. it then plays out as so:

Huntress (1989) #1 by Joey Cavalier & Joe Staton

Both through the very explicit paralleling of the two women, and the lamp-shading thereof on the writer's part within the scene itself, helena is framed within the eyes of the audience as someone who herself has once been a victim. the creative team presents you with the one most archetypal examples of a victim they possibly could, though, again, the problems within the history of that fact can't be ignored either- one that for all its commonplace is still powerless and meek as ever, and said "our hero has once been her."

"I knew somebody with a name like that... a long time ago..."

By allowing the audience access information so early on, the creative team is quickly able to position helena as existent within a dichotomy of the struggle between the ongoing disempowerment of trauma, and the fight to regain one's sense of power thereafter, as seen through the lens of non-linear trauma recovery. It is planting the seeds of what will grow to be a major theme in helena's arc.

Additionally, it very quickly posits helena as a character who is, in part, motivated by the phantom of her own vicitimization. She is very quickly suggested to the audience to be a character that is doing this- doing all she can to fight, stave off, prevent acts of violence- as a form of penance both to herself and to the world for the moments in her own life in which she was unable to do so. It is put into the mind of the reader that she is followed by the wraith of her own suffering, and of knowing that the weight of trauma is one that others can also be forced to bear.

This is further reinforced by the immediate narrative focus the collaborators chose to place on helena as a figure of compassion. from her first scene in main canon, her focal point is the victim, so much so that when choosing to return to the scene to comfort the young woman, she is able to notice something as innocuous as a wallet and return it. Moreover, due to its atypical nature in the context of comics, the 'alley-way victim' being named with such a sense of gravity in this scene takes on an added layer of importance besides the aforementioned. The victim is humanized, emphasizing their centering in helena's concious motives. To further compound this, the first time we ever see helena speak on-panel is when she chooses to comfort this young woman. her words, her actions, her passion are all motivated by her own needs & wounds, yes- but the victim, the person being hurt, that is what is at the centre of them. if further evidence were required, one may even point to the fact that the first face we see at all is that of the victim's.

And, emphasizing the overall themes present within the introduction to an even more extreme extent, is the nature of the visual story-telling taking place on pages 4 & 5.

Page 4 begins with helena fighting the perp, her back turned away from the audience, but ends with her walking toward us, body language confident. This draws our attention both to helena's capacity to be imposing, to inhabit the position of the unknown in order to illicate fear, and to helena's individual power as a character.

Conversely, the first time we see helena on page 5, when her face is finally revealed to the audience, she is talking to the victim. It ends with her back to the audience, standing as if fixed in her position, taking up fairly equal panel space with her fellow as she watches helena k. walk off, and falls into a memory. this places the audience's focus on the fact that helena b. is just as, if not more so, consumed by her victimhood as her counterpart.

(this also sets up the following scene, in which we are given helena's backstory, exceedingly well btw)

Moreover, the visual choice to hide her face temporarily gives helena a sense of being quite guarded as a person, which will be expanded upon later, and shows that the dedication to character building started very early-on for Stanton & Cavalieri, which i really appreciate.

From the first breath of life given to her story, helena is deliciously presented as a byronic heroine- an unusual type of female character to see at all, let alone in comics- and it is done through focus on her agency as a character & her dominating sense of compassion for others.

Truly, I adore beyond my heart’s capacity just how much Staton & Cavalieri chose to dedicate their opening to showing just how much Helena is a character who finds the power to find personal redemption, empowerment, & rebirth- as violent and bloody as that rebirth may grow to be- in the ability she has to do good unto others, to try to allow them to retain the innocence that was taken from her by force & the closure she was denied. They put such energy into making it clear that she is a character so very deeply driven by a sense of compassion, one so consuming it may as well be keeping her heart in chains, and they portray it as equally served by her violence as tender-heartedness. it’s enrapturing, it’s enchanting. like, really, heart’s honour, i live for it.

#it really just is an excellent feat of teamwork & storytelling on part of staton & cavalieri #helena bertinelli #helena & trauma #joey cavalieri #joe staton #huntress v.1 #huntress (1989)#dc #this used to be a tag #gothamverse #dc meta #helena bertinelli meta #batfam meta #batcomics meta

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dick-the3rd · 2 years ago

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Sorry if this is a weird ask, but this has been bugging my brain all day. Have you seen that one post about the batkids seeing bruce and batman as different people? Like jason has no problem arguing with batman all day but bruce scolds him once and he sulks/gets upset? I also remember all the comments being like "that's a trauma response" and the op replying that they knew. I was looking for it and couldn't find it.

OKAY SO

I took all day to reply to this bc I was looking for it bc I do remember it.

Unfortunately I can't find it :(

If anyone who sees this know where to find it pls be an angel and drop here!

#asks #anon #batfam meta #kinda

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hollowwhisperings · 1 year ago

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I LOVE THIS.

except.

Aside from Dick (who went behind Bruce's back & ended up being Robin just so he'd have Supervision because One Does Not Attempt To Babyjail An Acrobat) and Damian al'Ghul... none of the Robins were active when any younger than 13 when they started, at MINIMUM.

The "canon" ages are Very Muddled, given all the RetCons & Certain Writers Having No Sense Of Scale... but the WHOLE POINT of Bruce becoming "Batman" can be simplified to: "babyproof Gotham City".

While, yes, EVERY Robin would have snuck out in their Predecessor's costume at some point, the only batkids who could consistently Escape Bruce AND Alfred? Dick, an Actual Escape Artist, and Damian, Literal Ninja. Cass could, technically, but Babs had "custody" when she was still child-sized. I don't see Alfred or Bruce letting multiple escapes happen, not until they'd trained the newest kid &/or they'd already "babyproofed" the crimescene (something i imagine was true of EVERY Robin's first few patrols anyway, when possible).

The First "Era" of Batman was against Organized Crime, Rampant Corruption, & Hopelessness. The only "real" supervillains were Eccentric Crimelords like the Penguin & Rogues like Selina. It was relatively "safer" for Dick to be at Batman's Side than alone in Gotham at Night: Batman was a Cryptid, Bruce's tech was FAR more advanced than anything the gangs had packing, stealth & pre-preparation meant opponents were almost always taken by genuine surprise.

This "First Era" of Batman was when Bruce, Gordon & Harvey Dent were working together (with "The Bat" helping things along) to "Reform Gotham" from being Mob-run & Corrupt from the Top Down & Bottom Up... to something Vaguely Competent. This is when the "most" change happened for Gotham City: the Gangs were disarmed, ousted and uprooted from running the City, civilians could try Actually Trusting each other again, and the vast majority of Gotham's unchecked Chaos was either Given Better Options or "Scared To Behave". Gotham was still dangerous and corrupt but reforms were happening, more legitimate jobs came up, the cops had someone to be Accountable to (still corrupt but now they had to WORK for it instead of it being assumed by default), etc. This is all "alleged" history rather than Canon but it's the general "shape" required to mark pre-Batman Gotham from "Gotham with Bat Cryptid" and enable things like Gordon becoming Police Commissioner, "Batman" continuing to exist at all (due to affecting Actual Change), and the dissolvement of the "Traditional" Gang-ruled Gotham of The Penguin & Bruce's childhood.

...so that Harvey Dent becoming "Two-Face", and the Second Era of Cryptid-tactics being used by BOTH "sides", can be as personal and scary for Gotham as a whole. Things had been Getting Better: Bruce fears he's only made things Worse, other people Become Inspired (by Two-Face, Gordon or The Bat; by all three). Babs becomes Batgirl. The Gotham Central comics start happening. Bruce starts doubling down on building an "Alter Ego" for Bruce Wayne, the slightly less corrupt cops now Aware of The Bat & hunting him (the Rich Idiot Act also serves as a "buffer" to prevent Bruce from allowing anyone to get "too close", believing he'll Doom them by Association).

The "Second Era" is the beginnings of New Types of Criminals: Manbat, Poison Ivy, Mr Freeze, The Riddler (who is legitimately scary as an Unknown this early on), The Joker but in his "pre-Miller" incarnation. Supervillains that aren't quite "Super Villains" yet, just Sad Backstories Gone Wrong (but not TOO wrong) and Ridiculous Copycats.

I headcanon that Dick gets adopted around this time, while the "villains" are still "normal humans who would take any Out given to them". Gotham is dangerous but Not For [Lucius Fox]: money & tech still give Bruce a huge edge over everyone else, even Gotham's metahumans (after some initial failures while figuring out their limits). Dick won't let himself be kept safely in Wayne Manor & he is a LITERAL Escape Artist so trying to keep him in Baby Jail is Futile. Bruce is also more confident in his ability to keep A Child safe, he's getting an idea of how Scary this 12 year old can be without Bruce supervising. Bruce recognises Dick's anger but, unlike Bruce, Dick has the strength & agility to actually back him up: Dick can actually hurt people, something that Bruce couldn't manage until he'd started Training for it. So Dick gets to be Robin, kept in check by Batman & humbled by seeing that very little of Batman's "crimefighting" involves physical violence. It's mostly smoke & "mirrors": stealth, gathering intel, sabotaging ahead of time, using better tech, scaring & Showing Up when someone calls for help.

The time between the Second Era & the Third has things starting to become More Dangerous as Dick & Bruce start butting heads about what "Robin" is allowed to do. Dick sees the [Second Era] as a time of Wacky Villains & smalltime mooks in between Serious Challenges. Bruce sees this [Era] as "Batman" becoming less effective as he loses "Cryptid" Status. The main reason Bruce started dressing up as a Bat and only showing up at night was because he was trying to prevent senseless violence: fear was effective because most criminals were only trying to survive & weren't really committed to "being villainous". Batman getting clocked as "Dude in Cape" meant Bruce was having to PHYSICALLY fight crime, the element of surprise lost & less mooks fleeing at first provocation. Dick leaves. Jason goes for the Batmobile's tires. Bruce ends up with a second kid. It's still the Second Era but, as it nears it end, things get increasingly more Tense: Bruce & Dick aren't Speaking, Bruce is becoming more Paranoid, Jason is a sweet kid, the Rogues start feeling "safe"/familiar enough with the "routine" (Arkham Asylum isn't GREAT but it's better than Prison: the unique needs of metahumans are still being learned, stays there can be too long oe too short, identifying those who need Asylum & would take it is an ongoing process).

Then Joker breaks out of Arkham Asylum. He tortures the Gordons. The extent of his obsession with The Bat is revealed.

The Joker murders Jason: it's the Third Era and it's AWFUL.

Bruce Does Not Cope: he micromanages, he "works alone", he never "stops" Being Batman.

The Bat regains Cryptid Status. It's not just amateur crooks and would-be mooks scared by The Bat anymore: Bruce is scaring civilians, the 9-5'ers who have follow "The Code" (e.g. keep it profressional, don't use lethal force if you can avoid it, DO NOT MESS WITH KIDS), the Rogues he's developed some rapport with (Selina, Harley, Riddler), Alfred & Lucius & Gordon.

People who "Knew" Batman as someone/thing that Does Not Like Senseless Violence, who gives Second Chances and Alternatives... they do not recognise this new, reckless and violent and ANGRY Batman/[Bruce].

I don't think Gotham "at large" was ever aware enough of The Robins even existing, not this "early" on. Those who Met One would "keep the secret/to the Code": professionalism, discretion, softening their punches. Most would never have noticed a Robin was there: the Batfam primarily operate in the SHADOWS, after all. There were Rumours, naturally, but who listens to anything said by The Joker? The ones who'd bring up Batman having a kid were The Wrong Sort (not following The Code, known associates of Gotham's Worsts) or "Liars". It's only the Escalation from Joker and the other Worsts of Gotham, of Batman's reciprocating that Escalated Violence, that makes Gotham's Underbelly start dreading that those Rumours might be true: the Bat had had a kid, a kid who was sweet and cracked jokes, a kid who wasn't just murdered but tortured too.

Batman's renewed Cryptid Status comes in the wake of the Dead Robin rumours: the Robin was the Batman's "conscience"; the Bat is Gotham ITSELF, come to the cries of her children; the Robin was an Orphan who summoned his Father from Hell itself and, with his child dead, there was no one to send the Demon back.

The Third Era has a drop in standard crime but a ramping up of Terror: Tim, Steph and Bab's Birds of Prey step up in response. Bruce Does Not Take New Kids Well. He is awful to Steph, furious with Tim (Babs is one of the few Bruce feels has "Understood" how Gothan has Changed: her business is her own, so long as her at know not to "interfere" with Gotham on their own).

Tim is too tenacious, too ambitious, too stupidly capable of matching wits against Bruce at his Worst: Bruce takes him in but REFUSES to put Tim in a Suit ("Robin" is completely off limits) until he was Not A Child (15+) and Bruce had TRAINED him.

Even with Tim's age going up & down according to the writer, the Mythos of Batfam in this "Third Era" does not allow for Bruce to ever put anyone younger than 15/16 in the "scope" of the Joker or his other Enemies (Bane seems very Third Era). Cass is an anomaly, wherever she fits between Jason & Tim, due to how immediately she & Bruce were able to "understand" each other. It helps that she was ALREADY more physically skilled than Bruce & had demonstrated complete mastery of non-lethal combat. The nature of Cassandra's life had her "involved" with the Dark Underbelky of the World long before she even arrived in Gotham... and, all that aside, it was Babs who "took her in" anyway.

The "Fourth Era" would be Batman "having a Robin again": it's a relief for Gotham as a whole. Bruce (& thus Batman) is still VERY paranoid and more Terrifying than he ever was with the First Robins... but Tim's presence does "stabilize" him.

(This only furthers the Bat Cryptid "leashed only by Child" Rumours: Oracle gladly adds to them in service of the Bat Agenda)

The Fourth Era is when Supervillains become "normalised", identified as People in Suits to the masses & something any member of the Batfam has become Trained to "Handle". Most of the Rogues have been caught more than once, their weaknesses have been Noted, there are Protocols ready for almost everything. Gothamites get yearly "fear toxin" boosters, schools & workplaces have Drills for "Metahuman Events" (& Emergency Lockdown systems for Arkham Escapes, courtesy of Wayne Enterprises). Thimgs are, once again, "settling" into a New Normal.

Gotham is still more dangerous than most cities, it's also been Recognised as differently dangerous: it's rare for Outsiders to 'try their luck" by "playing hero" in Gotham, Nightwing is the "official" point of contact for any Capes or Metas expecting to be in Gotham & everyone likes Nightwing.

(Oracle is a new Cryptid: a Recognised Authority for Gotham but of Unknown Connection to it, her Birds largely operating Outside of It)

Overall, Gotham is "better" than it was pre-Batman: it's only unofficially run by Crimelords now and only half of its authorities are "Probably Corrupt"! The Bat himself is more "stable": Bruce has begun reconciling or otherwise making silent ammends to those he's alienated, he's regained SOME ability to "Trust" (his Family, some friends). Bruce knows he has never really "worked alone" (Alfred, Lucius, Leslie, Gordon) and that he needs help, that he has it: he has something of a Work/Vigilante/"Life?" Balance again.

Jason Coming Back is Fifth Era.

Bruce & the Batfam are still working things out, being prone to falling out all over again (Dick has resolved to never "abandon" his Dad again, taken up the role of "Peacemaker") and the "Red Hood" gives everyone has at least one existential crisis (at minimum). Damian showing up just as the they're understanding that Jason Is Alive and Mad About It... does not help.

Idk if Bruce faking his death is still canon? That's the "endnote" of Fifth Era.

Sixth Era starts with the "Batman" mantle being taken up by Dick, Kate & Cass. Whether Bruce is genuinely dead (to then get resurrected) or just "missing" depends on which arcs you'd consider "canon". I barely recall the explanation given at the time for Bruce Playing Dead to his entire family, just when it had finally "reunited" (largely through Attempted Murder but pssht DETAILS).

Seventh Era is the present: Bruce is Batman, the Robins & Batgirls have "graduated", the Batfamily is a Family (even when they fight, they protect each other & revere Alfred). Organized crime, supervillains & metahuman events in Gotham have become Slice Of Life events for the Batfam: there's more of them than ever, they have multiple Point persons, they know how to work together, they know their own limits & when to call for Backup (except Bruce but his Kids have figured out how to "compensate" for the Batdad's Paranoia/Lack of Self Preservation/Overprotectiveness: Jason is the Best at this, obviously).

Gothamites during the Seventh Era have Adapted to seeing Grown Up Robins out in the Daytime; the "Cryptid or Very Dedicated Dad?" discourse continues, actively encouraged by Said Robins (consensus from Gotham At Large is split between those that consider Batgirls to be "Robin" figures, generally a position held by those most familiar with [Babs] &/or [Steph] while other views have [Cass] &/or [Kate] as alternate forms that the Bat Cryptid can take). Duke joins the family.

"Seventh Era" Bruce is Renewed in his dedication to combating crime before it happens by addressing its causes: affordable housing, unemployment, rehabilitation, discrimination against ex-cons, accessible healthcare, conflict resolution training by emergency services, etc. Bruce lets himself "retire" his Rich Idiot mask to further his philanthropy, the extended Wayne Family all onboard & leading different avenues of reform. Older Gothamites become Nostalgic, recalling Bruce's parents & the still-active Dr Leslie.

The "Veterans" of Gotham's Criminal Underbelly are Nostalgic over having a "Tiny Robin and Bat Cryptid" active again. The "Code" is not onlu adhered to but internally enforced: The Bat's Madness at the loss of its Robin is still too recent, injuries still newly healed, sentences only recently completed. That there are Multiple Robins and Multiple Cryptids, all of them terrifyingly protective of each other... one of the first things taught to any prospective gang member is "kids are off-limits, even Robins: ESPECIALLY Robins!". Self-defence is fine, expected, but Certain Weapons & Certain Acts of Violence? If the Cryptids h

don't get you, a supervillain or other gangs will. It's the unorganized crime that Gothamites are most wary of.

The scariest word a wannabe-bad guy can hear in Gotham is "Dad/Baba/Father". Any of the Robins might do it. Some of the Cryptids do it. If you hear a child calling for their parent? It's Surrender or Play Dead: hearing that word means They (the Cryptids, Nightwing, the Robins, Batgirl, Catwoman, Harley Quinn, Two-Face!) will end you. You will wish they would just "kill" you (the Ghost Robin or the Rogues just might).

I split Batman's "Career" into "Eras" because it's a way to Mentally make Past & Current "canon" internally consistent... give or take an anachronism.

Dick was anywhere from 10 to 12 when he became Robin but it was also the Era where Batman was Mythic, his Tech outmatching most everything Gotham could offer, where No One Was Expecting A Child Ninja (Dick was an internationally acclaimed gymnast: that reads like "ninja" to the unprepared).

Jason and Tim were older (14-16) but both could easily read as "younger" due to the Cryptid Nature of Batman by that time, their only showing up at Night, kids looking Younger the Older you get, the bright colours of their suits, the stealth & social tactics used by the Batfam as a whole.

I REALLY like how this idea of "[Bat]Dad" can fuel Gotham's Underworld paranoia in their ongoing efforts to figure out "Batman": an urban legend, "Gotham Personified", "Cryptid?", dude dressed like a bat, "vampire?"... all the way to "Cryptid Parent summoned from Hell by Children of Gotham, the Robins, who are the Only Beings capable of putting the Bat Demon back to Rest".

Especially if this "mythology" is started independently of any rumours of The Batman that Bruce was TRYING to proliferate & gained traction with every addition to the Extended Batfamily (official and otherwise). Bruce can't even "get mad" about how his myth has changed because, at its core, Bruce's "Motive" for being Batman can be "summed up" as... [babyproof Gotham for every future generation].

So my Batfamily brain rot is back (not that it ever really left) and I just had a thought like…

If you’re a henchman/criminal in Gotham, seeing your life flash past your eyes is gonna be a somewhat regular occurance but… what if like… the thing that truly made a henchman’s heart fall to his ass was when they hit Robin just a little too hard and this 10 year old kid just starts crying and goes ‘Daaaaaadddd!’

That’s the moment when they truly think they’re going to die because said dad, the kid is calling for is a 6’6 demon from hell who’s all muscle and shadows and vengance and a lot of Gotham still thinks he’s a cryptid

The henchmen all drop their guns and try to calm the kid down but it’s over in 5 seconds flat. Batman breaks several bones before speaking to Robin in the softest voice they’ve ever heard him use and the criminal world, who was already a bit hesitant to fight a kid have even more reason to take it just a little easy on Robin.

And like, I can picture different reactions with every Robin.

Like, for Dick, he’s ten and we all know he was the most violent Robin second only to Damian so maybe when he’s ten or eleven and has calmed down a little, a henchback who still remembers what a little shit he used to be decides to get back at Robin, slips on a pair of brass knuckles and BAM

And then, little Dick just stares for a moment in shock, cheek already starting to bruise, the criminals he’d been fighting all stay still because it was a nasty punch and then…

“Daaaaad!!!” He cries out in a whiny voice that reminds them that Robin really is just a kid and it all clicks into place.

Even Bruce wasn’t expecting that, Dick has just started calling him dad and he still isn’t used to being called that so to hear his kid calling for him in the moment where he is startled and hurt and a little scared… the henchmen don’t even have time to react and they wake up in the hospital with concussions and maybe a few broken bones.

It doesn’t take Dick long to calm down, it was mostly that the hit from a random henchmen really startled him and got him right in the cheekbone. But Bruce still finishes patrol early and Dick still hides under Bruce’s cape all the way to the Batmobile.

Then comes Jason and Jason was such a sweet kid, I headcannon he was the one that called Bruce dad the most often while being Robin. So one night during patrol maybe he finds himself fighting Penguin or Two-Face and it’s been a long night and he has an exam the following day and Bruce is fighting another villain at the other side of the warehouse

The point is, the henchmen and Two-Face start landing hits on eleven year old Jason in his gut and at some point he loses sight of Batman fighting on the other side of the room. Jason gets scared because he’s never really fought without Batman and while he knows that Bruce is still in the warehouse, he can’t see him and the handle of a gun hits the back of his ankle and he falls and he sees Two-Face or Penguin or one of the henchmen getting ready to grab the front of his uniform and beat him up and…

“Daaaaddd!”

The criminals freeze for a moment. They’ve heard the stories of what happened the last time a Robin called scared for dad.

They’re fucked.

They all drop their guns and try to get Jason to calm down, but he’s crying just a little bit and calls again, his voice breaking and despite having been at the other side of the warehouse just a second ago, Bruce somehow drops from the ceiling and it’s over before the criminals can keep pleading with Robin to calm down.

Jason tries to apologize for ‘acting like a baby’ but Bruce is having none of it and carries him back to the Batmobile and Jason is happy to just hide his face in Bruce’s cape because he knows his dad will always be there to save him.

Then comes Tim.

And Tim gets found out while doing reconnisance and somehow he finds himself face to face with Bane who manages to wrench away his bo staff and Tim is just eleven and he is scared because Bane doesn’t look like he’s going to hold back

All Tim knows is that the crack he hears must surely be his ribs either cracking or breaking and he can’t breath and he can only muster enough air for a single word… and he calls for his dad through tears and fear

And at this point… at this point Batman has already lost a Robin, Tim may not be his legally but he is his son just as much as Jason was

Bane spends a month in the ICU

Tim is embarrased that he reacted like that. He thinks it makes him less of a Robin to called scared for Batman… for dad.

So Bruce tells him of the other two times it happened. It’s one of the first times he’s spoken about Jason to Tim so bluntly.

Then comes Stephanie.

Stephanie never calls Bruce dad when she’s Robin. She’s not his daughter and he’s not her dad. They’re not sure what exactly they are to one another.

As far as Bruce knows, Stephanie’s version of Robin never called out to him when she was scared.

What he doesn’t know is that it did happen. Just once

It was the last time she was Robin. When Black Mask had her and she thought she was going to die

At some point while bleeding and feeling nauseous and so scared she could barely hear anything that wasn’t her own heart beating wildly against her chest… she called for dad. Not for Arthur Brown, but for Bruce

Black Mask laughed at her

Stephanie never tells Bruce

And finally… Damian

Now, we know Damian would probably never be startled enough to call for Bruce out of instinct, so I can see 2 scenarios in which this could happen.

First, he sees another kid do it. He sees a kid close to his own age laughing and playing, then tripping and staying quiet for a split second before crying out for mom and dad and he just… assumes that’s something kids do when scared and hurt and startled and does it mostly in an attempt to be a little more ‘normal’

Or, my favorite scenario… he hears of the other times it has happened. He overhears maybe Dick remind Jason of what Bruce did when Jason called out to dad as Robin. Tim maybe jokes that a Robin calling for dad is still the villains’ greatest fear

So Damian stores that knowledge away as a battle strategy just in case he ever needs it… and maybe a small part of him wants to put it to the test, to see if his father would protect him as brutally as he’s protected the Robins before him

So some random night during patrol, he’s up against several henchmen, a few of them grab him from behind, trying to hold him down. Damian is fighting against them when one of them swings a cylinder of metal that Damian thinks might’ve been meant for the plumbing and…

The henchman breaks Damian’s nose, there’s blood dripping down his chin and staining his uniform

Now… it is most certainly not the first time he’s broken something, he’s more than used to the pain, in fact, he barely feels it. However, it gives him a chance to put his little theory to the test

And so Damian allows himself to sound like the ten year old that he is and in a whiny, teary voice, goes… “Babaaaaa!” (Bonus points if it’s the first or second time he’s called Bruce baba instead of father)

What Damian didn’t take into account though, is that Batman and Robin aren’t the only ones on patrol that night. They made a big bust. The biggest part of the operation was over but they were still fighting a few stragglers. The whole fucking family is here.

And they all hear his cry.

Damian doesn’t think he’s ever seen a fight end so quickly. The henchmen only have a split-second of surprise before vanishing, being tackled or shot or having knives buried on their shoulders by his siblings.

The one that actually broke Damian’s nose is being beaten up by Nightwing, Damian doesn’t think he’s ever seen Grayson so angry.

A shadow kneels in front of him, father. Baba. He’s checking Damian and Todd is right at his side, both speaking in hushed tones, checking his injuries and wiping the tears that usually came with a broken nose.

And now… Damian is used to his father and Grayson treating him like a child, trying to be as soft as they can with him. Even Cain does it to some extent.

But… having Drake wrap an arm around him, calling him baby when knocking out one of the criminals that had hurt him ‘that’s my fucking baby brother!’ and continue to hold him later into the night on the couch, having Brown willingly give up all the snacks she keeps in her utility belt and promise to take him to Batburger the following day for milkshakes because he was ‘a champ’. And Thomas wraps his favorite blanket around Damian while they’re fixing him up.

Todd decides to stay the night at the manor. Which he never does. They all decide to spend the night at the manor when Damian still sniffles on the Batmobile and they have breakfast all of them together. Which Damian isn’t sure has ever happened before and Cain gets Alfred to make pancakes with chocolate chips instead of blueberries.

They call him baby in hushed whispers but for once, it doesn’t bother him even though it really should

But most of all, Bruce refuses to let him go for a good five minutes after he first cries for him. Smoothing down his hair and whispering that it’ll be okay and just being soft in a way Damian has never seen before.

He sleeps between his Baba and Grayson and he knows that Todd and Drake and Cain check in on them at least twice in the night for some reason.

And he realizes it’s… it’s nice. Maybe this really could be an effective battle strategy to be employed again someday.

#batfam meta #batman & robin #bruce wayne character study #batman character study #gotham city #batdad #you must be x years old to fight crime #mythology of batman #cryptid batfam #batman meta

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