#bad arguments that make me mad

[nobibiname]

Ever wondered why the Elucien arguments pulling out Sarah’s 2016 interview and Facebook comment (yeah that one after ACOMAF came out) are SO annoying? 🙄

Ok so I ended up in a TikTok comment section today (yes I know that was my first mistake) and it occurred to me, we are once again not on the same page about some fundamental ideas on writing. The OP argued Sarah hasn’t changed her mind on the next books &elucien and that she said so in an interview after ACOSF.

Ok, but there’s a huge GLARING problem with that.

Basically, a writer makes promises in the text. I’m paraphrasing Sanderson here (I watch his lectures for fun, even tho I don’t write cuz I’m a dork) so he was talking about the first chapter and prologue of a book, or movie… but if you’re writing a multi-book epic, then you’re probably going to make promises about plots and characters of your future books, right?

So what are these promises? Basically what kind of book it is, plot&trope hints, the tone, goals, journeys and obstacles.

Ok back to SJM: why is the argument that “she said Elucien and hasn’t changed her mind infuriating? Because she made different promises in the books. And that is what Elriels mean when we say “set up”.

I mean just from the amount of interactions, Elriel have more than Elucien.. not to mention the warmth, positivity and thoughtfulness she put into their interactions over seriously 4 books. The promises are crystal clear: there is a romance that started as friendship==plot, but she has a bond w/someone else==obstacle, and Rhys forbade it in a moment resulting in her thinking he rejected her, but he didn’t == twist.

These promises need to be addressed, resolved, fulfilled. Is there something even CLOSE to this kind of story promise existing for Elucien?

I have seriously seen people claim that Elucien are both “friends to lovers” AND ��enemies to lovers”…. These cannot both be true, like come on… you’re not even sure what kind of story they promise to be? You’re not sure what kinds of promises Sarah made about Elucien?

Why are you not sure? Because it’s not in the text. My personal view is that Elucien is neither… if they happen it’s kind of worse than either trope, they’re certainly not friends, they are at best indifferent to each other and at worst resentful. Mmmm … delicious “indifferent to lovers” 🫠

On a serious note, I don’t “hate” Elucien, but SJM hasn’t made a single promise in the text that I can quote in here that would make me excited about them. He gave her gifts that she didn’t throw away…. ?? Really?… she made a half step toward him… once… no, just no! And that’s how I feel, regardless if “Lulu deserves love”… sure he does, then write a love interest that brings out flirty firey fox boy from book1 and I’m on board 🫡 ….and don’t try to convince me after 4 books of a tepid nothing that all along it was Elain. Because. I. Don’t. Buy. It.

And my last point (I swear!) why did I get my panties all up in a twist… basically this: a writer makes promises IN THE TEXT, and if what you are saying in interviews directly CONTRADICTS your actual text, then you kinda have a problem. … at that point either you’re a bad writer, or you can’t blindly trust an interview from 7 years ago, it’s outdated!

The great GRRM himself said how often his “gardening style” of writing led to character arcs and romantic pairings changing… so why don’t we start treating Sarah as an adult author, and trust the text, and not an old interview?

It also comes down to trust. You don’t wanna be left feeling like “hmmm this doesn’t feel real, I don’t buy it” it takes you out of the text, and it happens when an author messes up promise-delivery . When an author foreshadows well, and sets up the story with their promises, still manages to surprise us while keeping the promises… well I trust THAT PERSON to tell me the most satisfying story.

[smartzelda]

Sorry guys I gotta speak my truth on this one

I'm not kidding when I say that I think that blaming shit media literacy from fans on shipping/shippers avoids the actual root of the problem to throw people you can easily throw under the bus (simply because it's not unpopular to consider people who post about ships or ship characters in media as having lesser or derivative tastes by default)

And here's why.

I think when you blame people who are "shippers" or "consume media through shipping lenses", the true root of it all is a mindset problem.

In actually, putting on shipping lenses can be helpful when trying to analyze a piece of media. When analyzing media you're supposed to approach it through a number of mindsets and put on different lenses (both to deepen your personal understanding of the media, and to pick it apart and see what you can find there (whether intentional or not on the author's part)), and different ships can be some of those lenses

When it comes to ships between main characters (for those who are genuinely willing to see what the narrative is showing with their relationship and what it's doing), there are times when analyzing it from a shipping lens may be helpful. As someone from KH fandom, I have seen people come to deeper understandings and pick canon apart in the process of analyzing a relationship that is genuinely integral to the story (platonic or not). I've also seen people get into rarepairs of characters who barely interact or who just suffer little screen time, and I've seen them come to better understandings of those side characters and how they potentially fit into the world of the media simply because people are now focusing on these characters and how they fit into the narrative.

Frankly, I resent the idea that the only way to truly objectively analyze a piece of media is by turning off the part of your brain that gets excited over relationships and individual characters. Don't get me wrong, that is a way to approach a piece of media and a valid one at that, but the truth is that we cannot be free of bias.

For instance, I was watching House MD with my parents circa last year. At some point I started heavily tuning into what was going on with House and Wilson's relationship. My parents, on the other hand, were largely watching casually. They're not thinking of character relationships or getting heavily invested in most characters, they're watching because they like watching. One of them in particular did try to analyze things that were happening in the show as they happened. However, when it came to the scene late in the series where House threw out Dominika's letter approving her American citizenship, my parents could understand that he was doing that because he didn't want her to leave, but not much beyond that. I ended up explaining to them that House's fake marriage for Dominika was an explicit parallel to when Wilson was living with House in the early seasons. Both situations started with House being none too happy about it but ultimately letting them stay, spending a considerable amount of effort getting them to leave/getting this situation to be finally over so he didn't have to deal with it anymore, and then by the time a piece of news comes through that would mean the person in question actually leaves, House hides this news as long as he can. Because he doesn't actually want them to leave and has grown attached. And by doing this he became a self fulfilling prophecy. By reacting to the truth of Wilson and Dominika leaving him the way he does, he seals his fate and they ultimately leave anyways. Maybe I ship Hilson, but becoming open to how their relationship was handled allowed me to transition to doing character studies and recognizing patterns/parallels that I wouldn't have noticed if I didn't particularly care about the characters or their relationship.

Likewise, I've seen mutuals complain about how people who don't like or don't care about certain characters often overlook these characters (what they're actually like and their place in the narrative), while the mutuals in question (by default) are able to come to deeper understanding of what the writers/story is trying to do because they care about this funky guy

You can't eradicate bias when you're engaging in media analysis, but you can consciously put on a range of lenses and observe the media through different povs with the goal of understanding the media better or bolstering your reading of it. And those lenses/povs can include focusing on specific relationships or the perpective of certain characters

And this is why I say it's actually a mindset problem. Shippers and people who have this one blorbo they like a lot aren't inherently terrible "fandom brained individuals" who are the root of media analysis problems. The problem only arises when people's readings/analysis of a piece of media are inherently restrictive/narrow and self centered. Your problem is with people who view a piece of media through a ship they like but don't keep an open mind about it, and whose "media analysis"/views on canon cannot be split from fanon and their comfortability levels. These are the people whose "media analysis" starts and ends with justifying their fanon as canon, whose views on media revolve around sorting characters and relationships into categories they personally enjoy rather than trying to understand what's going on.

Here's another example.

Here we have a fictional ship we'll call uhhhh...Blanebin. this fictional ship I made up on the spot for characters that don't exist named Blane and Corbin

Person A is super into Blanebin. They're part of the main cast of characters and canonically childhood best friends, so person A (as much as they enjoy fanart and fic) is also enjoying analyzing how narratively important to each other they are. Recently, Corbin started dating another character in canon, but Person A is enjoying watching how Blane is reacting to this. "Is this potentially a tell that Blane is jealous or is having complicated feelings about this? What if he was, how would that contextualize his behavior this season? Here's what I think based on how Blane dealt with explicit jealousy last season in a different situation". It's not impossible that person A is still missing further understanding due to their obsession with Blanebin, but at the end of the day this obsession has allowed them to start picking through the characters both in and outside this relationship. It has allowed them to see potential subtext and theorize on what might happen next with these characters' relationship. Not to mention that with addition of Corbin dating someone else, instead of trying to erase this fact or state that Corbin canonically isn't into that person, Person A is trying to factor in how Corbin's current dating life affects his relationship with Blane (irregardless on personal views on the nature of Corbin's relationship with the person he's dating).

Person B is also super into Blanebin. They really enjoy fanart and fic of the characters, love obsessing over their moments together, and just feel like there's really something between the characters. To person B, every moment between them is just further proof that the writers are ship teasing them. But Corbin getting together with someone else this season? Oh that pissed person B off. They cannot believe that even though Corbin and Blane are CLEARLY gay for each other the writers had Corbin get with someone else this season. Perhaps, they think, it was even a decision specifically made to spite fans. How evil of the writers to tease a perfectly good ship and then have them not get together first? They must have been just doing those teases to get views from Blanebin shippers those scoundrels. To Person B, since Corbin started dating someone when he obviously has some chemistry with Blane (even though the series is far from over) means that Blanebin can never get together now and Corbin x person he's dating is ruining Blanebin by existing. In fact, they think, this is terrible writing for Corbin to be dating someone else because they don't like that relationship and don't see the point. Obviously if the writers were good then Corbin would have started dating Blane instead because this was supposed to be the Blanebin show.

Person C despises Blanebin. Don't get them wrong, they've always enjoyed the character's childhood friendship, but they actually have always thought Blane would have been better off with Victoria. They have a lot of moments too! But they're tired of seeing people ship Blanebin. Corbin just got together with someone else, so obviously that's not gonna work out. Plus Corbin and Blane totally has always given person C bro vibes. In fact, person C thinks, sure Corbin and Blane have a close friendship, but people shouldn't be shipping them. Person C likes Blanetoria and Blanetoria can't be canon if Corbin is in the way of it. So Person C likes to read Blanebin as siblings anyways. Sure they're canonically friends, but obviously their friendship turned into brotherhood. This means that nothing can be in the way of Blanetoria and Corbin can keep dating the person he's already canonically dating. Actually, now Blanebin just straight up makes Person C uncomfortable. Don't the pesky shippers understand that Blanebin are sibling coded because they're childhood best friends and that they're important to each other because they're brothers? It's obvious to anyone with eyes.

Sure, ships are involved here, but is the root of this problem shipping? Character A isn't as knowledgeable of other characters in the plot due to this lens they're using, but at the end of the day they're dedicated to analysis. Their love of the characters is pushing them beyond what they like or dislike to try to understand what might be happening through their lens. Not perfect, but they are slowly broadening their horizons. But Person B and C's problems here are their restrictiveness. What is or should be canon to them is tantamount to what they personally like or find comfortable. Is person C actually analyzing the this fake show when they decide to "read" Blanebin as basically canonically siblings (and this all of their moments are totally a bro thing) just because they don't like Blanebin and the idea of them getting together over Blanetoria makes them uncomfortable? Is person B actually analyzing this fake show when their "analysis" of Blanebin goes only as far as asserting it's being ship teased and deciding anything short of canonizing Blanebin is a targeted attack or "bad writing" because it's not what they wanted personally to happen?

This is what I'm talking about. This is the mindset. Shipping isn't the problem. The problem is when people marry fanon and canon to the point where they have a vested interest in superimposing their fanon over canon as "a reading" and trying to make "collective decisions" on what is canon (or what canon is trying to say) based on what does or doesn't make them uncomfortable. The problem is people being restrictive and centering their own likes and dislikes in the conversation, so they can only interact with canon "analysis" wise by deciding what is canon or should be canon "as obviously agreed on by everyone". You can't simply claim you like media analysis. To be able to analyze media and bolster your views on any given canon, you must be open to looking at it through multiple povs, to studying characters without trying to pretend things you don't like don't exist or do like do exist. There is a balance that must be kept between trying to keep objectivity and putting on specific focus/bias based upon the lenses you're putting on. You have to be willing to try to figure out what a media is doing or saying, not saying you're trying to figure out what it's saying while in actuality trying to define the narrative around what people believe it's saying in ways that suit you.

Thank you for coming to my ted talk.

[loud-whistling-yes]

I've been describing this college semester's mood as the emotional equivalent of being dragged face down uphill through mud and babygirl today is a towed by a speeding car through a highway facedown kinda week

[hearts401]

We need to start treating bad writing like bad art and im not kidding

[hauntingblue]

WATER SEVEN BABYYYYY

Look at robin reacting when luffy says he wont give her up.... 🥺🥺

This is a joke right now but its actually a one piece tenet aldjsisjka

Usopp aksbaksjakqk the foreshadow is foreshadowing... Also Robin being happy with the crew after the Aokiji incident... Fuck!!!!

Sanji thinking robin just vanished or flew away and suddenly usopp is soaring thru the skies... imagine

AAAAARGGGGHHHH YOU CAN SEE THE GEARS TURNING

Zoro talking to merry..... only while he is alone of course

Why are nami and sanji matching ajdhakjsk look at the citrus sisters

Carpenter: maybe it was the government

Gov agent: I don't think so, also don't say that they are everywhere

LUFFY SUPPORTS WOMEN'S WRONGS!!!

Don't scream att chopper like that!!! Look at him... So small....

Imu tease???? (No) (Also I've changed websites again bc the translation is kinda off , I can't find a good quality b&w spanish translation and the colors scare me (i want the real manga experience))

GET HIM ICEBURG!!!!

I truly forgor if this is just a lie about her wanting to find the rio poneglyphs or genuine because she wants to die and will do it for them... because in skypiea she says she is not interested in the weapons so maybe if the gov pardons her but considering what she wants is illegal then idk abdjabjs this is such a dumb thing to forget... like thats important girl where did it go (reading this after remembering and it's kinda funny... i will make any sacrifice to kill myself (and keep you safe)... she goes HARD)

Little paulie and mozu and kiwi.... omg hello (the SBS says the twins wanted to be shipwrights too omg)

Franky's backstory is small but it does so much for me like it is so central to the themes... boats and people...

DID SOMEBODY ORDER MORE TRAGIC BROTHERS?

The fact that franky needs to learn this lesson to pass it on to robin.... do you understand how big this is.... also Tom does exactly as he says and takes responsibility for franky and what he has done... because he has done nothing wrong AND THAT'S HIS SON and he just punched spandam bc he wanta him to feel the pain franky feels... Tom is such a man..... proud of having built eater 7 up with the sea train.... goes out with a boom.... should we all kill ourselves....

I am crying again................... franky my god.... and the fucking frog!!! And of course franky can't stop Tom's hope for his island... of course he can't.... he hasnt learnt the lesson yet but this guy isn't over yet!! He has a life of being a pervert cyborg ahead!!! Iceburg following Tom's footsteps but franky not being able to do that bc of his guilt....

This is one of the coolest things chopper has done btw...

NAMII 😭😭😭

Robin damning the world for her crew when all she has ever done is damn her companions for her own sake.... how big is this...

I can't take this...... it's always nami in these positions... it happens AGAIN in Zou with Sanji... there is no way

The love letter gag is too good like damn that's so funny

AND IT'S NAMI GOING THROUGH IT AGAIN!!!! SHE LOVES ROBIN SO MUCH!!!!

[quietwingsinthesky]

we do NOT need to get into how the modern sections of Origins are fucking nonsense from top to bottom okay we don't have time i'm just saying. they would be slightly improved by making the little change that bayek is not just some guy layla's gone and dug up, but actually someone she has a connection to, that she's descended from. her raging at abstergo after they kill her friend and try to kill her that she's going to finish her mission (that she was doing to impress abstergo) anyway is terrible writing! but it would make a little more sense if that moment was meant to directly reflect how bayek's own anger gets the better of him over the course of the game! give me something!!!!

[jrueships]

avon 'EXCUSE ME!! he ASK for no

P I C K L E S . '

barksdale

[akascow]

im the front desk lead so i get to boss front desk people around (i hate it im so bad at being authoritative) but it also means i have to make slightly passive aggressive messages in the work chat like once a month about things ive already asked them multiple times to stay on top of but its so annoying the more i tell them and the more they just Dont do it SKJSLKAD im trying so hard to make this message look like im not mad and that im not trying to be the bitchy manager type and i dont want it to sound like im talking down to them but also like its part of ur job i shouldnt be one of the only ones doing this PLUS I SHOULDNT HAVE TO KEEP REMINDING U TO DO THIS DFJLKSLDKS

[slashingdisneypasta]

Sometimes I feel bad about the way I speak about my mother- then she makes me feel like this and I don't feel so bad anymore.

[lightblueminecraftorchid]

My roommate and I had a conversation last night and I keep rotating it in my brain and I Don’t Like It

[marscats37]

One of my sister’s boyfriends keeps sharing transphobic memes on Instagram like I wonder if she’s embarrassed ? I’d be embarrassed.

[volfoss]

my #analysis or whatever but its really interesting with how much they cut out of the Jon at the banquet 1x01 scene compared to (at least the leaked version online) the original pilot and book. like not to be like yeah grrm put this much detail in there for a reason but a lot of the detail that they removed really hurts jon as a character and its so jarring to see how much they cut to take the chapter down to about 3 minutes of the episode.

[vampire-nyx]

I always feel like strangely embarrassed when I earnestly like and use and identify with a term other people really seriously hate, like oh no. Am I doing self identification wrong

[loveletterworm]

hmm as artfight approaches i am starting to become a little aware now that my refusal to use toyhouse nowadays does mean i have nowhere to put any of the pictures i get except the folder on my computer that isnt really organized and that i dont back up at all...its starting to feel precarious...

[melonnade]

absolutely disgusting the way that the violence on my campus this morning is being talked about on the news. reading articles rn and they keep talking about violence on both sides & fighting breaking out ‘between’ the two groups. call it what it fucking was. it’s not two sides being violent, it’s one being attacked by the other. rhetoric matters.

[they-call-me-hippie]

Yeah I can tell people have lost their grasp on basic ongoing forms of oppression when they say things like "hatred of men and masculinity is one of the reasons trans women, BIPOC and Jewish men are persecuted" like what a non-sequiteur. Imagine being so ignorant of power structures in your attempt to """progressively""" defend men that you become transphobic