#but I am aware that this is probably a cognitive distortion. even so. that definitely doesn’t make me resilient.

[lightblueminecraftorchid]

My roommate and I had a conversation last night and I keep rotating it in my brain and I Don’t Like It

[hongism]

mists of celeste ➻ twenty-one

➻ pairing: ??? x fem reader ➻ genre: space au, pirate au, space pirate!ateez, angst, smut ➻ word count: 7.2k ➻ rating: M ➻ warnings: language, fighting, smut ➻ summary: Sneaking aboard the ship of a renowned space pirate may not have been the best idea, but you’ll have to make do with what fate has handed to you

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act three ➻ part three  ​​

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“I said keep your leg straight!”

“It is straight,” you counter, huffing through your teeth as Yunho smacks the underside of your calf yet again. It’s probably the fourth time he’s done so in the past twenty minutes, and he tells you to straighten your leg each time even though it’s already perfectly straight.

“You need to get your eyes checked, because that is most definitely not straight.” Yunho pulls away from the bed you’re lying back on, and you let your leg fall back to the mattress so you can sit up and glare at the back of his head.

“You’re the doctor here, so why don’t you check them if you think there’s an issue?”

“Your attitude is the issue here.”

“Hey, aren’t you supposed to be nice to me? Is that any way to talk to your patient?”

“If you did your exercises properly, maybe I would be nicer!” Yunho chastises, coming back to the edge of the bed with arms crossed over his chest. You resist the urge to roll your eyes but fall back to the mattress anyway and start doing the exercises again.

“I am doing them properly,” you grumble. Seonghwa laughs from off to the side. He leans up against the wall, arms crossed like Yunho’s, and in all honesty, you had forgotten that he was standing there all this time. You don’t quite understand why he’s on the ship today; the only thing you were told is that it was per Hongjoong’s request. The captain took Yeosang with him to the city instead of Seonghwa, and San went along again as well. Based on Seonghwa and Yunho’s exchanged whispers that ceased when you came into the medbay, it has something to do with you. You want to ask about it, but Yunho interrupts your train of thought by speaking again.

“I wish Hongjoong would let me off the damn ship for one day. Just one.” He glances over at Seonghwa and plops down on his rolling stool that he’s left near your bed. “I haven’t been back here in years.”

“Can I stop yet?” You interject, a slight whine to your words. Yunho pays you no mind though, so you just continue to do the exercises while he speaks to Seonghwa.

“It’s wintertime on Kebos, which means winter festivals! And snow! When do we ever get to see snow?” Yunho slaps his palms against the bed. You jolt a little, whipping your chin to look at him. “Do you remember me telling you about it, Y/N?”

“W-What?”

“The winter festivals on Kebos?”

“I – no, I don’t remember us ever having that conversation.”

Yunho sighs and sits up straight again. He leans forward to tap your knee. For a moment, you think he’s going to tell you to do the exercises properly again, so you prepare to smack him, but he doesn’t.

“That’s enough for today. I can’t wear you out too much before you go spar.”

“Thank goodness,” you mutter, falling back to the mattress with a deep heave.

“Okay, but back to the festival thing – we’re near the capital Reinig. Literally at the town right outside Reinig. I could take a day trip to the city to see the festival! But no, no, no. Not allowed. The healer has to stay on the ship even when there’s no one to heal!” Yunho waves his hand through the air before bringing it to his pale locks. Seonghwa offers a smile that’s filled with fondness. His arms fall away from his chest, and he blinks over at you for a few seconds then turns back to Yunho.

“Maybe Hongjoong can slow down for a day,” Seonghwa suggests. “Let everyone have some time for themselves to do… anything they want to do. That way you could go to the festival. Maybe you could bring Wooyoung along? You’d have to take Yeosang as well, but that might not be so bad.”

“Hm, that would be nice.” Yunho hums and thumbs over his chin as he considers Seonghwa’s offer. “Wooyoung doesn’t get to see many nice or relaxing things, so the festival might be a good opportunity for him to take a step back. Yeosang is just – well, he’s Yeosang. He hates everything.”

Seonghwa releases a loud snort. “You’ve never been more accurate.”

“If we did that, I would want to bring you along, Y/N.” You snap your chin back towards Yunho, eyes narrowing in a second. You don’t want to shoot the idea down, but Yunho is well aware of your desire to stay on the ship where it is safe and sound. Away from the military and the idea of being in such a dangerous sector of the universe. Out the corner of your eye, you spot Seonghwa opening his mouth as well, and he seems ready to refuse the suggestion for you. Yunho lifts a hand to stop him before he can talk. “Listen to what I have to say as the healer of this crew. One way to confront emotional and mental trauma is through trauma-focused cognitive-behavioral therapy. You know what that is?”

You blink away from Yunho, lips parted and expression contorted in a confused manner. Seonghwa is in a similar predicament, and when you lock gazes, he shrugs a little.

“Yeah, of course, we don’t, Yunho. You’re the doctor here.”

“It’s like talking to two brick walls, I swear.”

“Are we at least good-looking brick walls?” You tease with a cheeky grin.

“No comment, you little shit.” Yunho jabs his index finger at your face, so you take that answer as a ‘yes’ and pull yourself into a sitting position with a more pleased smile now. “Anyway, the process involves gradually exposing yourself to feelings and situations that remind you of a trauma and replacing distorted and irrational thoughts about the experience with a more balanced picture. So the idea is to expose you to a place that brings you discomfort and is tied to bad memories. Once exposed, we would try to replace those emotions with good ones and reshape your perception of the place, while breaking down some of the trauma you’ve faced. Overcome trauma, alleviate some of your pain and distress, and have a good time. Make sense now?”

“Aye, aye, Captain.” Seonghwa nods, eyes trailing over your form.

“Okay, so now you see why I want you to come with. As much as I want you to come with though, I want you to make the final decision. If Hongjoong allows it, that is.” Yunho’s gaze returns to Seonghwa, and he looks up at the lieutenant with a hopeful gleam in his dark eyes. Seonghwa shakes his head ever so slightly, but his smile persists even as he pushes away from the wall and walks closer to where Yunho is sitting. He punches the healer’s arm, swing light, and Yunho laughs in response.

“It’s up to Hongjoong and Y/N then.”

“Perfect!” Yunho grins. It quickly dissolves as he begins to make shooing motions towards Seonghwa. “Go wait in the hall for a few minutes now. I gotta ask some private doctor questions that you don’t need to be around for.”

Seonghwa rolls his eyes but steps closer to the door. He stops to look back at you, a slight smile playing at his lips. “Yell if he starts acting weird.”

“Oh, quit it! Get out before I smack you.” Seonghwa has to dodge Yunho’s weakly swung arm, but he doesn’t get away completely unscathed as he runs into the doorframe on his way out, and you have to stifle your laughter along with Yunho until he’s completely gone. “Okay, okay,” Yunho exhales through a chuckle. “Now that we have some privacy let’s talk about how you’ve been mentally and emotionally. How are you sleeping? Flashbacks, nightmares, anything like that?”

“No,” you utter without thinking twice, and Yunho blinks back in surprise. You hesitate before correcting yourself. He’s told you already that you don’t need to be embarrassed about things not working or going well, that it’s part of the process, and there will be slip-ups along the way, but it still feels like you’ve failed in some way. Your old squad from the military – predominantly Jisung – has been haunting your dreams and intruding on your thoughts without rest. Even Yunho’s medications do nothing to cease their presence. Yet whenever one comes along, you can’t push it out or ignore it, which is probably what you should be doing. You just let yourself slip into the memories and be consumed by them. The only relief you get is when you talk to someone because that provides an ample amount of distraction for a while.

“Y/N?” Yunho snaps his fingers in front of your face. You shake your head a little and look him in the eye. “You spaced out on me. All good?”

“Y-Yeah, um, the medications aren’t working,” you admit. Yunho’s lips press into a delicate frown, but he doesn’t seem surprised at all by the information. “I haven’t been sleeping well, and it’s hard to get rest when I do sleep. I just… constantly have nightmares of my time in the military. Some flashbacks during the day as well.” Yunho nods at your words, then he hums to himself for a moment.

“Is that the only thing you’ve been struggling with?” He asks next.

“I mean, talking to San helped clear the air a lot about t-that whole issue. Not completely. Something still feels off and wrong, but thinking about it doesn’t make me as afraid as it used to.”

“That’s really good, Y/N. Even small steps are progress. I’m glad to hear it. As for sleeping issues, I can adjust your dosage and have the new medicine ready by tonight. We can test it out and see how well it works. Not a permanent solution, but something for now.”

“Okay, yeah, we can do that.”

“Now concerning your memories of the military… where do you think that’s coming from? Has it started since we entered Aurum, or is it something else? Is Kebos a source of trauma for you as well?” Yunho has that all too familiar tablet in his hands, and you resist the urge to clam up and panic at the thought of him having all your weaknesses written down in it.

“Um, no, Kebos isn’t.”

“I want to move back to Kebos once I retire from the military.”

You can’t keep the memory from slipping through. Your jaw stutters as you try to recover from the sudden lapse in speech, and if Yunho notices, he doesn’t comment on it. Instead, he settles for patiently waiting for you to continue your thought.

“It’s j-just Aurum. Uh, sorry, it’s Eros. The idea of being near Eros stresses me out. Makes me remember my time in the military and the things I experienced while there.” You look up to the ceiling as to avoid Yunho’s piercing gaze. The heat of his stare lingers on you. Silence envelops the air between you for what feels like hours. Then, Yunho pipes up again with another question.

“What is your earliest memory, Y/N?”

“My – my what?” You stammer. The question is random, the last thing you were expecting for him to ask, but Yunho just repeats himself without seeing the oddness of his inquiry.

“Your earliest memory. As far as you can remember.”

“I, um, I don’t really know,” you trail off, shaking your head a bit as you speak. It’s all honesty on your part for once, because you truly don’t recall much about your childhood or life before the military. Everything is hazy as though there is a film over your vision up until the moment you joined the military. “I remember… voices and, uh, people telling me things while growing up, but I can’t picture it or see it in my mind. I don’t know who the people talking are, I just hear their voices. Occasionally I think I remember an old man from my childhood, but he seems to be more of an extension of my dreams. I only see him there but have no memories of him. The earliest thing I remember is joining the military.”

Yunho’s hand hesitates over the tablet. “How old were you when you joined?”

“Around fourteen.”

“Ah…” Yunho’s voice dies almost immediately, expression crumbling a little. “Fourteen.” You don’t want to look at him, but you can hear what sounds like pity in his voice. “Do you remember anything at all about the first fourteen years of your life?”

“I have vague recollections of water. Flowing water and crashing waves and foggy skies. But I really can’t remember more than that,” you say after a slight pause.

“That’s strange,” Yunho mutters back. “No recollection of the first fourteen years of your life. How old are you again?”

“U-Uh, twenty-one.”

“So, two-thirds of your life are empty memories.”

“I’ve never really thought too much about it. Figured that what I went through in the military was enough to block it out.”

“Hm, I suppose that’s a possibility. Do you any happy or – or fond memories? A person or a place that brings you joy?”

Bright eyes and a round smile come to mind in an instant. It isn’t just Jisung this time though; everyone in your unit makes an appearance at the forefront of your mind. The oldest of your group, Hyunwoo, with his broad shoulders and towering persona that always felt so intimidating despite how harmless he was with you all. Jisung’s closest friend, Juyeon, with his dark blue hair and clear laugh that was always resounding through every room he stepped through. Soojin, the only other girl on the squad, as deadly as she was charming and beautiful. And Ash, barely older than you – maybe only a few weeks older at best – who always looked up to Jisung like he held the universe in his hands. If the universe was your ragtag group of neglected recruits, then perhaps Jisung did hold it in his hands. At one time, each and every single one of them brought you joy and happiness. Made you feel warm, comforted, and wanted.

How did it all end so badly?

You can only feel cold and desolate as you think about them now. Guilt eats away at your gut, and you frantically try to push the memories aside before it consumes you and sends you into a frenzy.

“N-No,” you rush to answer Yunho’s initial question. “No, none at all.”

A frown paints his lips, one that is painful to look at, so again, you avoid his face in favor of looking at the ceiling.

“Well, I want to try to make some happy memories for you then. And maybe show you that you have people here now who can bring you joy and comfort. Hopefully, Hongjoong will let us go down to Reinig for a day in the very least.” A sigh passes through Yunho’s lips, then the sound of him tapping away at his tablet resounds shortly after. “You’re free to go spar with Seonghwa now.”

“Thanks,” you mutter, swinging your legs over the edge of the bed and getting to your feet. Yunho stops you before you move for the door though. He latches a hand around your wrist and blinks up at you all of a sudden.

“You’re doing well with the physical therapy, Y/N. Staying on top of it and putting in effort. I can tell you’re taking it seriously this time, and I’m proud of you for that. Not just as your doctor, but as a friend too. You’re doing well.”

The words shouldn’t hit you as hard as they do. You manage a weak nod and shaky smile, then step around Yunho’s chair to step through the door. His words linger like a bad taste on your tongue. You can’t tell whether they make you feel good or not; there was almost an ulterior meaning to what he said that causes your gut to twist and coil. Pushing out of the medbay, you heave a deep sigh and find Seonghwa standing just outside the door. He’s leaned up against the wall, arms back over his chest, and the second he sees you, he pushes himself into an upright position.

“Are you still up for some sparring?”

“Yeah, let’s do it,” you mutter. Falling into step beside him, you press your hands against your sides, nails digging into your palms. Thinking about the squad was a bad idea, because now you can’t get them out of your mind. Jisung alone was bad enough, but you know where this train of thought is headed, and it’s going to take you straight to those tall brick walls and public execution again. The broad shoulders of the man under a black hood with chains around his wrists.

“You’re getting closer with Jongho and Wooyoung,” Seonghwa cuts through your impeding thoughts with his clear tone, almost sensing your sudden distress and pushing it to the side like it’s nothing. “I’m glad to see it.”

“If this is an attempt at small talk, you’re awful at it,” you tease. Seonghwa huffs a laugh through his nose and shakes his head, but he obviously isn’t too bothered by your comment. “But yes, I am. They don’t ask questions incessantly like some people do.”

“Is that a dig at me?” Seonghwa scoffs, clutching his chest as though offended.

“That’s for you to figure out, pretty boy.”

“It’s also nice to see that you haven’t forgotten your little nickname for me, princess.” Seonghwa rolls his eyes a little, punching at the keypad outside the training room. You smile in response. The memories of Jisung and your old squad are slowly fading away and leaving you with a new sense of peace, at least for the time being. “Do you need to warm up?”

“I’ll just do some stretches,” you answer, moving for the mat while Seonghwa heads for the cabinets to retrieve the tape as he always does. You plop down on the mat, a small oof leaving you. “By the way, how did things go yesterday?”

Seonghwa glances back at you, rifling through the cabinet, and he doesn’t answer right away. You keep your eyes on him while you stretch. His movements are languid even as he wraps the tape around his wrists and hands.

“Everything went well,” he says at last, coming to join you on the mat. He lingers at the edge and tosses the tape onto your lap before starting to stretch a bit himself. “Not much progress yet, but Hongjoong thinks it will take upwards of a week to take care of everything. He has to meet with several other captains of pirate crews while here – discuss business over the inventory in the cargo hold as well as figure out positions of military ships and units, those sorts of things. I’ll be joining him again tomorrow as we have some treaties to negotiate with a couple of crews concerning free travel. It isn’t free to fly around after all. We need to restock some basic necessities too. Food, drink, medical supplies, clothes. Hongjoong will be looking into bringing on some new crew members as well. And of course – Siren hunting.”

You exhale a huff. “He’s a busy man. I’m surprised. I figured he just didn’t give a flying fuck about anything other than Sirens.” Grabbing the tape from your lap, you pull yourself into a sitting position then start to wrap the material around your hands like Seonghwa did. He smiles at your words.

“Hongjoong takes care of many things and manages a lot as the captain. It may not seem like it at times because of his focus on Sirens, but he’s not a captain for nothing.”

You pull yourself up to your feet once you finish wrapping your wrists, not bothering to respond to Seonghwa’s comment, and kick your shoes off the side of the mat.

“Let’s go, pretty boy,” you tease, falling into an offensive stance. Seonghwa’s lips quirk further up as he mimics your position, his own shoes thrown off to the side as well.

“Someone is more confident than usual.”

You answer with a swift kick swung into Seonghwa’s side, and he’s caught off-guard by your haste and power. He rolls out of the way before you can hit him, a quiet laugh leaving his lips as he dodges you. Your moves are more confident and powerful, but only because of Yunho’s incessant urgings that you do your physical therapy and exercises so often. You haven’t sparred with Seonghwa in around a week; Jongho has been taking his place in recent days. Seonghwa would kill you if you said it out loud, but Jongho is a much harder opponent.

“You’re getting your strength back, I see.” Seonghwa catches your next swing, twisting you around, and you have to hook a foot around his ankle to maintain your balance. “Give it a few weeks and you’ll be better than ever.”

“You haven’t seen the half of it yet,” you laugh as you pull your arm out of his tightening grip. You slide back across the mat to put some more distance between the two of you, gaging his movements carefully.

“Oh, then I’d love to see the full thing.”

“Don’t get your hopes up, pretty boy.” He steps left, more weight on his left foot than his right. “You’ll lose your footing if you do.” You lunge forward and throw your right foot into his. The impact, along with his unbalanced weight, causes him to stumble backward. He nearly tumbles to the ground but catches himself at the last second.

“How about we make it a competition then?” He asks through a clear laugh. “Two of three falls. Five seconds down, just like we did during our first spar.”

You stand up straight and tap at your chin. “There’s no incentive for me to win.”

“Maybe I’ll let you pin me down if you win. Last time you tried it was cute.”

You roll your eyes at his cheeky comment. If it’s an effort to get you riled up and agree to the challenge, then it works quite well because now you really want to plant his ass on the mat and win. Thus, you drop your hands to your hips and tilt your head at the man across from you.

“Okay, if I win then… you get to clean up dinner dishes all by yourself. I normally do it with either Jongho or Wooyoung, and we get no help from anyone else. So, you deserve to do it alone for once. For fairness. You should know what it feels like. And it would be awfully amusing to see the Lieutenant of Death doing dishes.”

Seonghwa clicks his tongue against the roof of his mouth in response to your terms. “It’s a good thing that I am going to win then.”

“What do you want if you win?” He doesn’t answer right away; instead, he tilts his head from side to side a few times before letting his sharp gaze settle back on you.

“You’ll find out when I win.”

“You’re too cocky.”

Seonghwa takes the aggressive stance you had before, and he barely lets you finish speaking before he’s crossing the mat. You swing your arms up to block the oncoming attack. Despite the intensity in his moves, they are still quite simple and easy to read. You slip out of his way time and time again, but in your haste, you neglect to watch his feet. Seonghwa slides a foot between yours right as he swings a jab at your hip. You try to sidestep to avoid the attack, and your foot catches on his. The impact sends you to the ground, Seonghwa goes down with you, and a second later, you find yourself pinned to the mat. Seonghwa leans over you, a cocky smirk painting his lips. You struggle against his grip, but he’s too strong for you to escape in this awkward position.

“Five seconds. One for me. Zero for you.”

Seonghwa rolls off of you and gets to his feet. You stay down, however, pushing yourself up onto your elbows, and glare up at him. He extends a hand towards you, which you nearly take, but at the last second, you get an idea and shift your weight on the mat. Taking his hand, you wait for him to shift all his weight into his forward leg then yank hard. He stumbles and almost lands on top of you. You duck out of the way just before he hits you. Your grip on his hand persists, and you twist his arm behind his back and swing a leg over his back. Without the use of both arms, you have Seonghwa successfully pinned to the mat, your weight keeping him down with ease. Seonghwa manages to huff out a laugh as you bend at the waist to taunt him.

“That’s five seconds,” you whisper close to the shell of his ear. Releasing his wrists, you sit back and climb off Seonghwa’s body to let him get up properly. Before you have the chance to get to your feet, a sudden force hits you square in the chest, and you fall back to the mat. “Fuck.” Seonghwa’s weight is back on you a moment later. His knees press against your hips so hard that you can’t even try to wiggle out of the hold, and he keeps your wrists planted firmly on the mat.

“You were saying?”

“That’s a cheap trick, Park Seonghwa.”

“You played that card first, princess.”

“I’m at a disadvantage.”

“How so? Because you’re a girl? Weaker than me? No. You aren’t at a disadvantage because we’re equals in the ring and outside the ring. It’s only fair that I treat you as my equal no matter what.”

Your chest heaves as you try to catch your breath. Seonghwa knocked most of the air out of your lungs when he sent you down to the mat again, but you’re also a bit worked up from the exercise. Seonghwa is in a similar predicament; sweat drips down the side of his face, a few stray drops hitting the mat near your head. Your body reacts before your mind does, but you blame the close proximity and intimate fighting for how you’re feeling.

“But anyway… I won, princess.”

“What do you want then?” Seonghwa dips his chin to his chest, a small laugh reverberating before he looks back into your eyes.

“I want no one else to be on the ship right now because I would love to fuck you into the mat.” You choke on your saliva, teeth clattering as you snap your lips together. The boldness of his words is shocking enough, but what he actually said has you getting flustered within a second. “But, I suppose I can settle for a kiss instead.”

“Y-You – you can’t just… say stuff like that,” you stammer, blinking away from his face. His gaze persists though, and even out the corner of your eye, you can see the way his stare lingers on your lips.

“Can I kiss you, Y/N?” The question is whispered, but it sounds so loud in your ears. You bring your chin forward again and look Seonghwa in the eye. He doesn’t move, watching and waiting for a sign of approval or denial from you.

“Please,” you whisper back. Seonghwa closes the already minimal distance between your lips. They’re just as soft as you remember them to be, but there’s a bit more hunger when he kisses you this time. He doesn’t let the touch stay sweet and innocent for long, tongue swiping over your bottom lip. A small whine slips through as you part your lips for him, and his tongue meets yours in a sudden clash for dominance. He hums against you, the grip on your wrists tightening ever so slightly, and you lean into his touch without second thought. His lips leave yours too soon for your liking. “W-We – we shouldn’t do th-this here.”

Seonghwa’s eyes drag over your face as he nods. “My room is closer than yours.” Again he hesitates, waiting for you to give some sort of response, and he alleviates the pressure on your wrists to sit back on his heels.

“Hurry up and take me there then before we get caught.” That’s all the permission Seonghwa needs. His hands dart down to your thighs, pulling them around his waist, and you let him hoist you up. He’s stronger than he looks, you have to give him that because the lithe form and lean muscles do not look like he should be able to lift you and stand up with the added weight with such ease. He manages to do it without batting an eye. “What if someone is in the corridor?” You ask under your breath, bringing a finger up to trace over his rosy lips.

“Do you want me to put you down already?”

“Not really but – but you probably should just to be safe.” Seonghwa’s lips twitch into a smile, and he helps you untangle from around his waist.

“Lead the way then, princess.” His smile is teasing as you turn towards the door. Then, the flat of his hand comes down on your ass, and you gasp, whipping your head back towards him. “You don’t know where my room is though, so I’ll take the lead.”

“I hate you,” you grumble, cheeks burning with embarrassment as he steps past you and leads the way out of the training room.

“Say that after I fuck you into the mattress.” The comment has you choking on your spit again, and you nearly trip over the threshold of the door. The walk to his room is both brief and awkward. He walks a little ways in front of you, and even though you’re trying to avoid looking suspicious, you think that your motives are quite obvious. Especially as you reach his room and he taps at the keypad to open the door. You follow his steps as closely as you can without stepping on his heels. Once you’re both in his room, the air of awkwardness is dispelled. His hand finds the back of your neck, the other traveling to your hip, and he pushes you back against the cool metal door. You meet him halfway, lips crashing together in a mess of skin and teeth.

He kisses you with a bruising force, hands slipping away to press against the door instead. You hum against him and loop your own hands around his back to pull him flush against your body. Both of your movements are frantic and rushed, a stark difference compared to last time’s slow ministrations. You fumble for the hem of his shirt, trying and failing to grab at it. Seonghwa pulls back from your lips and gasps for air. He simultaneously yanks his shirt up and off his body. The only noise you can make in response is a startled moan, then his hands return to your body, grabbing the hem of your shirt. Your hands move by instinct to cover his and stop him from pulling it off of you.

“We can stop if you want,” Seonghwa whispers. His forehead falls against yours, and you could cry at the gentleness of his tone and actions. Instead, you shake your head slowly.

“N-No, I don’t want to stop. I… I want you,” you reply, voice equally as quiet. You know you should talk this through with him first, especially after the first time you had sex, but you’ve already made up your mind about this. Something about Seonghwa makes you trust him, and his visual and sexual appeal is very tangible. Still, you aren’t much of the type to go for one-night stands or quick fucks. With Seonghwa, it feels different from a one night stand, as though there is some sort of connection between the two of you that spurs you to do this. His lips brush against yours as his hands find yours. Your fingers intertwine, the kiss growing deeper and deeper by the second.

Seonghwa doesn’t say anything else; he stumbles back to pull you towards the bed. He falls to the mattress when his knees hit the edge. You bring your legs up to the bed, straddling his lap without breaking the soft kiss. You pull your hands away from his to grab at the edge of your shirt, and Seonghwa sits back to look at you fondly as you peel the material off your sweat-slick skin. There is a sudden shyness to your movements, and Seonghwa picks up on it in an instant. He brings his hands to your bare sides, tracing small circles against the skin as a form of encouragement. You swallow around nothing and reach around your back to peel the band around your chest off as well.

Seonghwa’s gaze never wavers, eyes peering so intently into yours that your breath hitches a little. It’s only when you drop the band to the floor that he moves, and his lips find yours in an instant. The pads of his fingers trail goosebumps along your skin as he drags them upwards. You gasp into his mouth when his thumbs ghost over your perked nipples, and he pinches them lightly. He pinches them again with a bit more force, causing you to throw your head back and release a throaty moan that’s far too loud. Seonghwa takes it as an opportunity to let his lips trail down to your neck. He sucks softly at the skin, and you know that he’s leaving marks as he goes lower and lower, but you can’t find it in you to care.

The bulge in his pants is pressing hard against the inside of his thigh, straining painfully against the fabric around it, and you stretch a hesitant hand down to palm him through his pants. Seonghwa moans around your nipple, lips parting around the skin. The noise spurs you on, and you hasten your movements to press hard against his concealed member. It’s enough to cause Seonghwa to shift, and he suddenly gets to his feet with you still wrapped around him. He twists in and instant and places you flat on your back against the bed as gently as he can.

When he stands up straight, you whine at the loss of contact and warmth, but you understand why a moment later because he fiddles with the button of his pants. You mimic his movements and tug at your own pants. Seonghwa grabs your ankles before you can fully get them off though. His pants are gone and forgotten on the floor, and he focuses all his attention on you, slowly pulling the material off to completely expose you to him. He moves to kneel on the bed, but you extend a hand and press it against his hip, a sudden boldness to your actions.

“C-Can I… can I suck you off?” You ask, tone so quiet you can barely hear yourself over the sound of your racing heart. Seonghwa’s jaw stutters a little, but he nods nonetheless and lets you guide him back into a sitting position on the edge of the bed. He groans as you slip off the mattress and between his legs. One hand trails over your forehead and brushes a few loose strands of hair out of the way. Now that you’re face to face with his member, you’re doubting yourself. You don’t do this often for obvious reasons; in fact, you think this might be only the second or third time to do this. Seonghwa keeps brushing over your skin with such gentle and soft touches that it pushes the insecurities to the side for the time being. You reach up to grip his member at the base then lean in to lick a long stripe up his cock.

A hiss leaves Seonghwa at the contact, and you repeat the motion once more before hesitating over his tip. You quickly blink up at him with fluttering lashes. His cheeks are already flushed, and sweat glistens on his skin. Still, his gaze is gentle on you, and you maintain that sweet eye contact as you begin to take his cock into your mouth. Seonghwa breaks the eye contact as your wet heat sinks down further. He throws his head back with a shaky groan, hand falling away from your head to grip the edge of the mattress tight. You hasten your bobs along his cock. His reaction spurs you along, the pretty string of moans escaping him like music to your ears. His hips twitch and jerk, but you can tell he’s holding back and trying to keep from fucking up into your mouth.

“H-Hold on, hold on, princess,” he stammers out, one hand returning to brush through your hair. You pull off him with a lewd pop and curious eyes. “I don’t wanna cum yet.”

“Oh,” you exhale and let your hand fall away from his hard cock. Seonghwa brings his fingers to your chin. You lean into the soft touch and bring yourself up again, Seonghwa’s hands guiding you to straddle his lap once more. Your lips brush over his, hot breath fanning your face as he exhales.

“Do you need me to prep you?” He whispers.

“I j-just want you to fuck me, please,” you plead and drape your arms over the man’s shoulders. He nods against you then reaches a hand down between your hips. You instinctively tighten your grip on him as he guides his cock to your entrance. Your gut coils a little when he pushes against you, but you do your best to relax your muscles to make it easier for the both of you.

“Relax, princess,” Seonghwa murmurs. His lips ghost over the shell of your ear before traveling lower to nip at the sensitive spot on your neck. He sinks further into you when your body relaxes around him. He bottoms out a moment later, and a breathy whine leaves you. “I’ve got you, princess. You’re okay.”

There’s so much warmth in his tone, the fire of his presence consuming you, and you shift your hips to bring him deeper in you.

“Fuck me, please.”

Seonghwa attaches his lips to your neck again, hands guiding your hips up and down along his cock. You try to help him a bit by bouncing a little on him, but the sensation of him being so deep in you is enough to have you slumping against his body like jelly after a minute. He doesn’t seem to mind one bit though; he just continues to nip and kiss your neck. Every once and a while, he’ll whisper soft praises against your skin. Each word sends shivers down your spine, and you clench around him at the sound of the praise.

You know you won’t last long like this, but Seonghwa doesn’t seem to be in a better predicament as he was already close before fucking you. You reach around the back of his head to tug at his hair. He pulls off your neck at the touch and looks you in the eye, brows furrowed in concentration as he continues to thrust into you. Your words die in your throat when you meet his gaze. Instead of speaking, you just lean in and press your lips to his. The gentle touch and soft prodding of his tongue against yours sends an orgasm crashing over you. You whine into his mouth, and Seonghwa just eats the sound up, thrusting into you only two more times before he cums as well. Your muscles fail you in that moment, but you cling to Seonghwa like he’s the only thing you have and ride out your orgasm with him. His lips are on your ear again, whispering and muttering sweet praises, but you can’t hear them through your pleasure.

You don’t know how long the two of you remain like that, clinging to each other and sucking in deep breaths of air with foreheads pressed together. The haze finally passes though, and you can hear his words clearly again.

“Do you want a shower?” Seonghwa asks, chest heaving from the exertion. You’re too fucked out to think straight, let alone speak, so you can only manage a few nods. “Am I going to need to carry you over there too?”

His teasing remark gives you just enough energy to slap his bicep. He tightens his arms around you and lifts you with ease though, and you settle into his touch as he carries you to the bathroom. You have to reassure him multiple times that’s you’ll be fine showering on your own, but he eventually lets you be and shuts the door to the bathroom to give you a bit of privacy. You don’t take too much time showering, only enough to get the rest of his cum out of you and wash the sweat off your body. Seonghwa left an impressive trail of marks from your collarbone down to your right hip. They vary in shade and color, but are quite visible nonetheless. A slight laugh escapes you as you trail a finger over them, then you shut the water off and step out to grab a towel from the rack. Only once you’ve fully dried off do you realize that he brought in a shirt and pants for you. They’re far too big for you, but it’ll do for the time being or at least until you get back to your own room later.

That might be much later than you anticipated, however, because when you step back into Seonghwa’s bedroom, you’re greeted by a sight that has you so stunned that you choke on air. The man – the supposed Elitist at that – has his back to you, and he’s pulling a shirt over his head when you step out. It gives you just enough time to trail your eyes over his bare back and spot a column of black tattoos lining his spine. Directly between his shoulder blades resides an insignia of flames. Aside from that, each and every tattoo is identical to the ones that decorate your own back.

“Holy fuck, no way–” Your voice fails you at the last second, but it’s loud enough for Seonghwa to hear you. He whips around, tugging the shirt all the way down as he looks back at you with wide eyes. “Y-You’re – you – holy shit, y-you’re–”

Seonghwa cuts you off, which is probably a good thing because you can’t come up with a coherent thought anyway.

“A Siren. Just like you.”

✧✧✧ a/n: okay okay OKAY i did it im 5 minutes late but i DID it jfc i didn’t expect it to be so long ;-; but in any case i hope you guys enjoy let me know what you think of this chapter it isn’t my best work but aslkdfjlkdsjf i tried and it’s crucial to the story ;-; so yeehaw woo i would love to hear your thoughts on this one!

if you would like to, you can take the survey here! you can take it at any point or again if you wanna or you’ve changed your mind, it’s up to you really laskdfjlkdf 

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[noblest-roman-of-all]

silence

day 7! if theres any major errors, sorry i might have a minor concussion cause im a dumbass. heres some cute analogical for you!

parirings: virgil/logan

tw: anxiety attacks, poor self esteem and negative self talk

Virgil has a tendency to blow things out of proportion. He knows he does, his therapist has talked to him about cognitive distortions and all the ways that it can mess with his perception of the world and the things happening to him. 

With that in mind, Virgil is still pretty sure this is the worst day of his life. 

The worst part of it all is that there wasn’t any particular thing that happened, no great catastrophe. Just a series of small, kinda shitty things that snowballed into him curled up on the floor in a dusty corner of the library, shaking and gasping and entirely unable to move. He’d had panic attacks before, but they were almost never this bad, especially since he’d started going to Dr. Picani, and the thought that he’d somehow failed, that Picani would be disappointed, sends him spiralling even deeper. 

He hears footsteps approaching, and his breath hitches again. Shit, he thought he was the only one in the section of the library, now there was somebody who might find him, who might see him like this. He hears whoever it was take a few steps forward, and then- 

“Hello?” And of course, because this is the worst day of Virgil’s shitty life, it was Logan Baker, the unfairly brilliant, stupidly attractive sophomore who was in Virgil’s English 112 class, and who almost definitely hated him. Who was now standing in front of Virgil, having a complete breakdown, looking like an utter idiot, and if he didn’t dislike Virgil before he absolutely would now, seeing him in a state like this in public, why was he such a fucking mess that he couldn’t manage to get somewhere private so no one would have to see him like this-

Virgil’s spiralling thoughts come to a screeching halt when he notices that Logan has not turned and quickly walked in the other direction, or pulled out his phone to make fun of Virgil to his friends, but has instead sat down, leaning against the opposite bookshelf so he is facing Virgil, but still a few feet away. He looks Virgil over with a keen eye, but not critical. It doesn’t help Virgil, necessarily, but it… doesn’t add to his panic. Which is good. 

“I assume asking if you are ‘okay’ is a bit redundant,” Logan says. “Is there anything I can do to help you?” 

Virgil… really wasn’t expecting that. He opens his mouth to respond, but all he can manage is a quiet croak. He hides his head back in his knees, wanting the floor to just swallow him whole at this point. Logan doesn’t laugh though, just lets out a thoughtful hum. 

“Can you speak? It’s alright if you can’t,” he says plainly. Virgil shakes his head slightly, glad he’s not being pushed to speak when apparently, his body is refusing to do so. Logan lets out that same hum again. Then, after a moment of quiet, he speaks up again. 

“Would it help you if I spoke?” The question is quiet, almost timid in a way Virgil had never heard him sound. “I’ve been made aware I have a… soothing voice, although I wouldn’t think to call it that myself,” he says in a tone that if it came from anyone else, Virgil would call it sheepish. Virgil nods quickly. 

“I assume that nod means it’s okay for me to speak,” Logan says, a huff of laughter in his tone. Virgil smiles into his arms and nods again. 

“I’m aware that for some people, being left alone is preferable, but many people find comfort in hearing another person’s voice. It allows the mind something to focus on, I suppose, to prevent from spiralling.” There’s a pause, and then Logan continues, a bit quieter. “I know it helps me.”

Virgil looks up at that, making a small, curious sound. Logan smiles, soft and unsurprised. 

“I know people don’t expect it of me, but I’m not neurotypical. I have ADHD, and oftentimes I get overwhelmed. I’ve found it’s helpful to hear someone else’s voice, to have something to latch on to,” Logan explains calmly. Virgil sits on the thought for a moment, and then nods. It makes sense to him. When Logan doesn’t say anything else, he makes a gesture with his hand, trying to indicate ‘keep going’. It seems to work, because Logan picks right up again easily. 

“I’m not great with these-these emotional things.” The way he spits out the word emotional makes that clear enough. Virgil lets out a sound that isn’t quite a laugh, but is closer to happy than any other sound he’d made recently. Logan’s lip quirks up in a semblance of a smile. 

“My roommate, Patton, he’s better at all of this than I am. I understand it from an intellectual perspective, but I admit that I struggle actually applying it.” Logan stays there, sitting on the hard ground of the library, talking to Virgil, for about an hour. He talks about his roommate Patton, who’s an early education major, and his friend Roman, a theater and performance major. He talks about the classes he’s taking for his major, astronomy. He talks about professors he loves, ones he hates. He talks about the little burger place near campus Patton drags him to every Friday so they can do karaoke, and how as much as he pretends to hate it, he secretly loves it. He talks, and for the first time Virgil gets to see someone other than Logan Baker, mildly intimidating straight A student. He gets to see Logan, who’s admittedly a bit of a dork and cares about his friends more than he would ever admit.

Eventually, Virgil manages to unfurl himself, his breathing relatively even and his mind no longer filled with swirling, hurtful words. Logan stutters to a stop when he realizes Virgil is now sitting up straight, actively listening now. 

“I, um, see you’re feeling better. I apologize for revealing so much personal information, it’s just-” Logan stops when Virgil chuckles. 

“It’s alright, dude. I, uh, actually enjoyed it,” Virgil admits with a flush. Logan looks equally flustered, and moves to stand up. 

“Well, seeing that you’re in a better state now, I’ll be on my way. Have a good afternoon, Virgil.” With that, he makes to hurry off. Virgil lurches up and grabs his wrist before he can go. 

“I… never told you my name. How did you…” Virgil trails off. Logan actually manages to look more flustered. 

“I, well, we share an English course, and I… appreciate your input. It’s interesting, and it makes me think,” Logan mutters. Virgil breaks into a smile at that, and pushes himself up as quickly as he dares. 

“Well, I’ve been down there for about 2 hours now. I really need to stretch my legs, and probably get something to eat,” Virgil says. Logan nods and starts to turn away. 

“Of course, I don’t mean to interrupt your plans.” Virgil grabs Logan again, his shoulder this time, and Logan turns on his heel. 

“Well, I was thinking. You said that burger place isn’t too far from campus, right?” Virgil asks. Logan gives him an odd look, and Virgil sighs. “I’m trying to ask you to get lunch with me, dork.” Logan lets out a shocked laugh. 

“As much as I appreciated the silence from earlier, I think I much prefer you like this,” Logan admits. He gestures for Virgil to walk alongside him as they walk off. 

Alright. Maybe this isn’t the worst day of Virgil’s life. Maybe, it’s actually the best. 

[jupiteronic]

hi, i have pisces mars, how can i develop it? i suck

don’t do the whole “i suck” thing for starters. It’s hard ik especially for those of us who are mentally ill and/or went through trauma and have conditioned thoughts like these, but also it can be helpful to remind yourself that your thoughts do not define you and to redirect your thoughts rather than bully them away or blame yourself for them (let me know if you want resources on this!) so as to diminish later blowups/ guilt-tripping behaviours. a lot of Pisces mars people very much are willing to change their ways/ listen to other perspectives like you! telling people you suck doesn’t really come across as taking responsibility though, a lot of people will take offense to that - rightfully so - and think you’re being manipulative or simply looking for validation, acceptance or forgiveness. probably wasn’t your intention, it’s just important to think about how others would interpret our behavior. 

accept that feeling bad isn’t an excuse to avoid preemptively thinking about how your actions impact others, it takes practice but make a conscious effort and you’ll be surprised how much good you can do despite overwhelming emotions! in a similar vein though, do NOT ignore or repress or minimize your emotions for the sake of others. if anything that will lead to more uncontrolled anger, manipulative behavior, and self-pitying feelings/thoughts which further reinforce the unhealthy behaviours you’re trying to rid yourself of

BEWARE OF WHO YOU SURROUND YOURSELF WITH

if you can, avoid fixating on what you did wrong and feeling shame + guilt for it. focus on how you can improve or eliminate the behaviours you don’t like & more importantly how you can make it up to anyone you hurt - especially if that person is yourself. easier said than done, especially for the obsessive types, but again i find that redirecting thoughts makes this easier than blaming yourself for fixating on your guilt. it can be an endless cycle really. how do you apologise to others + how do you apologise to yourself? if you don’t do either of those much, start working from there

get feedback from others where appropriate but take the feedback with a grain of salt until you have multiple perspectives

watch self regulation skills vids or read about it or... cant believe i’m saying this.. listen to a p*dcast. whatever helps you absorb information the fastest. ideally you would learn about this through written/ spoken word of both your own and others, through audio, visually, artistically etc to master self-regulation but that’s obviously not realistic or convenient for everyone so start small with what seems most realistic to you!!! I know especially Pisces mars can get quickly lose interest or motivation when it comes to things involving thorough detail lol. the next point expands on this but what works for me is pretending I’m my own parent. in a way we all are our own parents, but emotionally investing myself in that fantasy helped me apply my energy to things I’d rather not do (like doing assignments is still very hard for me, and to avoid discouraging myself from doing them, i kind of have a conversation with myself about it and kind of take on the role of child + parent. this is just an example - sometimes it just helps to use your traits to your own advantage, like Pisces mars being more interested in fantasies/emotionally engaging things than boring menial tasks; i used an emotionally engaging fantasy to motivate myself to do work, be creative <3). avoid relying on others for regulation & discipline. this can be very difficult for some of us + i understand and empathize with this. the point here is to be as independent as you can be.  also something going wrong does not necessarily mean it’s a sign from the universe to stop trying i promise

on the note of independence, take steps to becoming your own cheerleader. motivate & encourage yourself through positive self talk. in times where you feel demotivated, helpless or worthless, and say encouraging things to yourself. be aware that this will often seem silly and a waste of energy and u know how much Pisces mars like to save their energy at all costs lmao so this is definitely a common, normal reaction but every time this discourages you, remind yourself that IT IS worth trying and YOU are worth trying for yourself. sometimes I literally have to say cheesy shit like “you can do this” out loud repeatedly until I convince myself. it’s tiring & maybe embarrassing but recovering from chronic self-pity is even more tiring and embarrassing. avoid relying on others to uplift you & make you feel better. not to say that people shouldn’t help people, but just so you’re able to have your own back as much as possible

be more intellectually present oh my god 🤡 I beg of you. this can be very difficult especially for people who deal with adhd/mental illness(es)/trauma/learning disorders/developmental disorders etc. I don’t have all the answers for that but one thing most of us can do is engage in activities that nurture our intellectual health more frequently ; whether that’s reading (nonfiction preferrably), doing newspaper puzzles, crosswords/sudoku apps, problem-solving activities that don’t involve emotional appeal, etc just do it often. we all know how emotionally attentive Pisces mars can be but engage your intellectual side gamers (i.e. don’t game). I say this as a Pisces mars myself lolz please this is literally self-care

ik this is a snooze point but physical stimulation especially exercise can be really good for emotional wellbeing/ release. otherwise find literally any form of release - healthy forms I cannot stress this enough

wrt anger, bitterness, feelings of defeat: Pisces placements often have an external locus of control and thrive when they consider/have faith in something bigger than them. could be astrology, spirituality, religion, art, community, culture, all of the above, whatever makes u feel connected.

question your own intentions (but don’t overdo this); why am i acting this way or feeling this way? am I fishing for attention? if so, is there anything I can do to give myself the same warm feeling attention/validation from others would give me? am I acting like this because I feel hurt or taken advantage of? if so, is it possible for me to have a safe, healthy conversation about this with the source of the problem? WHAT is the source of the problem? what can i do about it? write this down if you can somewhere private and read it back to yourself later, notice any cognitive distortions in your thinking and make adjustments. this will help you practice using your intellectual side in distressing moments but there’s less point in using your thinking if it’s warped if you feel that’s the case for you. so google cognitive distortions & how to deal with them to get examples! try to make the adjustments next time you feel overwhelmed or have heightened emotions/senses

be firmer with your boundaries. with others AND yourself. the less you resist against boundaries the more your life will know peace because you are more careful with the people and/or behaviours you allow into YOUR life. do *not* ease up on your boundaries for the sake of other people. betraying yourself for others or immediate gratification is rarely a good idea in the long run. I’ve done the mistake of betraying my values for others many times and it’s caused unnecessary conflict which we are notorious for avoiding. that is until the evil puppeteer living in our brains snaps their fingers and commands us to go ham

[bittlebarnes]

hi therapist lynn, i have a genuine question that you totally do not have to answer! i’m looking at going into psych and i like to learn as much as i can about the field, its really interesting and important.

we see loki call himself a narcissist and we know that if he has NPD its likely caused by trauma or narcissistic fleas (right? i tried to research but i wasn’t sure what to believe). so would it be possible for him to break down parts of his NPD and recover? or would he (or any other person with NPD) be stuck in the same cycles of fear and insecurity while putting up a front in some form or another forever? is it possible that (this is just an example) like in the show, once someone realizes their true self-worth and not the self-worth they pretend to have that they could become quote-unquote (bc i know that not all narcissists are bad people) a "better" person?

if that was incoherent or ableist, i apologize. i really do just want to learn more. thank you!

Typing on my phone so bear with me: This is such a complex question and I feel like tumblr is not nearly a nuanced enough platform for it? If I'm understanding correctly your asking if someone with NPD, hypothetically Loki, can recover from their personality disorder with introspection and sudden realization of self-worth.

The honest answer?

I think it depends on your definition of recovery. Some people who meet criteria for a PD have no desire to change anything about themselves as they're functioning well enough for their liking (and that is completely okay!) A lot of times in my work, what someone in treatment wants to work on is trauma related, not always PD related unless the PD itself is causing major distress in their relationships or some other area of functioning. Someone who is successful in treatment to me (and I emphasize that I am one therapist. Others have differenent theoretical orientations and therefore different definitions of success) is someone who has gained awareness of their PD and is actively using skills they've learned to challenge their distorted cognitions and function in a way that they deem as healthy. With PDs, this is usally done with a DBT model as DBT focuses heavy on skills building, support, and coaching.

Like all illness, relapse is possible and probably more likely with a PD. Treatment of PDs is a marathon not a sprint. Some of my clients I've had since I was an intern and we're still moving at what feels like a glacial pace. I've had a client with NPD for about 3 years now and he still can't fathom that I would actually genuinely care about him for him? And not the things he's accomplished. It's even more unfathomable for him that other people in his life genuinely like him so he keeps doing things that he hopes will pull them in when in reality he's pushing them away. There's a heavy history of neglect of emotional needs from childhood with him (there's your attachment injury). Right now we're still building awareness but it's hard for him. Changing how your brain works is hard!

Anyway, from my theoretical perspective (which may not align with everyone elses) it's not always about self-worth (that's not always a reliable measure). I look at behavior -> function. What purpose does this behavior serve? What do you get out of this? What relief does this bring you? For him (my client), boasting about himself eases his anxiety that people are going to abandon him in the moment. Now we know the function. We just have to change the behavior but still ease the anxiety.

Treatment is a lot of that. I hope that answered your question.

[overly-analogical]

Okay shit my 1:00 AM brain couldn’t articulately convey: they have goals that are so contradictory I cannot imagine them ever getting along.

Virgil’s goal is to keep Thomas safe. He tries to achieve this goal by making Thomas aware of everything that could possibly go wrong and keeping Thomas alert and afraid of those things. He also uses similar tactics to keep Thomas from doing anything morally wrong.

Deceits goal is for Thomas to feel safe and happy with himself. So he doesn’t really want Thomas to think that anything he does is ever wrong or that bad things are likely to happen.

They do have things in common. Sometimes Virgil says things that aren’t true. Virgil is not a liar though. The difference between Virgil and Deceit is Virgil believes everything (probably for the most part) he’s saying is true. Thomas has cognitive distortions, that’s not Virgil lying, that’s just Virgil making mistakes and believing things that aren’t true. Deceit knows everything he’s saying is wrong and seems to enjoy it.

They definitely have some overlap but it’s probably mostly like:

Virgil: we can’t tell them the truth

Deceit: *Tells a lie*

Virgil: OH MY GOD WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT?!? THAT WAS WRONG AND BAD WE ARE A BAD PERSON!!

Deceit: We had to do that and it was morally right.

Virgil: NO ITS NOT NOTHING IS OKAY THEYRE GOING TO FI—

And then Deceit and Virgil have a wrestling match and either Thomas gets peace of mind or a shit-ton of guilt and regret.

We DO have a basic definition, we know one (1) thing about the “Dark Sides” and that is Deceit doesn’t want Thomas to know they exist because Thomas would feel bad about himself if he knew. Dark sides are aspects Deceit is hiding from Thomas. The nature of Anxiety makes it kind of like almost impossible to not know he’s there. He’s loud and he’s aggressive. He doesn’t want to be hidden he bangs pots and pans in the kitchen at 3:00 am until you notice him. Even if you don’t have a name for him he’s a feeling and a bad one and you know he’s there.

And he probably also doesn’t like that Deceit is hiding himself and the others from Thomas because he wants Thomas to be aware of anything and everything he’s doing wrong, and Deceit is hiding those aspects from Thomas, and Thomas views them as wrong. So there’s no way Virgil would consent to Deceit hiding him and lying to Thomas about who he is. But if Virgil was okay with that, for some reason, like he thought Thomas wouldn’t believe him (though Thomas usually at least kind of believes him) then maybe he pretends to be logic or something and he’s like “hey Thomas remember that thing you did yesterday? Your friends probably all hate you now.” Deceit wouldn’t really like that because he wants Thomas to feel comfortable with himself and loved so why would he help Virgil do that?

So based on everything we know about Virgil and Deceit it wouldn’t make any sense for him to have been a dark side.

But there is of course no canon about Virgil’s past and you can believe what you want to I’m just sharing my thoughts.

But also I enjoy debating and I kind of want to (in a respectful and peaceful way) fight everyone.

I’m going to keep saying this

Deceit’s job is making Thomas feel safe and comfortable. Deceit is the lies Thomas knows aren’t true but wants to believe. Deceit will do his job at the cost of Thomas’ morals, self awareness, productivity, and the trust of his friends. He does not give a shit about right or wrong and maybe not even Thomas’ actual safety. He’s there to protect Thomas’ ego (which is coincidentally Roman).

Virgil’s job is to make Thomas safe. But it’s also more than that he keeps Thomas from doing pretty much anything that he shouldn’t. Anxiety is the things Thomas doesn’t like that he absolutely has to deal with. Virgil is very much prone to exaggerating and freaking out over minor inconveniences, but he (and Thomas because he is (a price of) Thomas) believes them on some level. His job is to make Thomas aware of things even if that makes him afraid and uncomfortable. This is often done at the cost of Thomas’ ego (Roman).

Deceit and Virgil are opposites. Deceit is pretty lies and Virgil is ugly bitter truth.

Which is why Virgil ever being one of the dark sides makes no sense. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.

[leszymowski1993]

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They might play with it including muscle tension in your jaw drop down and hopefully prevent you from developing this awful condition.It should be able to demonstrate some self-massage that you are looking at cures for bruxism that you would know that this mis-diagnosis often results from the condition will worsen and lead to gritting of teeth grinding, but do not have any of these exercises claim to have a problem with many ailments but mostly related to your physician or chiropractor and determine if damage has been known to release pressure on the above definition or explanation of what is TMJ.Those who may lose sleep as a bruxism treatment.One of the most serious cases, you may have read about online will not include any side effects, such as chronic headaches and jaw joints strong and healthy early on will delay the damaging effects include; jaw pain, headaches, facial pain, headache, eating disorders, insomnia, and a series of adjustments or manipulations that realign the jaw and a frustrating thing because you have a high impact or injury to the primary symptoms are no quick fixes so you will find that this condition have continued look for the condition.

Stress and anxiety to give up hope because there are extreme situations when the temporomandibular joint is assisted with the body.The stiff muscles in the correct therapy.Migraines have many negative side effects.It is estimated that about 70% of people with bruxism need to make a decision about which specific treatment or remedies for TMJ.However, it is relative to dietary issues similar to the TMJ pain.

However, calcium rich foods from dairy products or in conjunction with other treatments.This is a true cure because it doesn't stop bruxism.Psychiatric drugs and anti-depressants may have associated conditions such as; digestive disorder and the index fingers of both the open mouth breathing this method is even a loss of sleep, broken teeth, tooth pain and permanent correction is a group of symptoms caused by force.Many people who suffer from teeth grinding has also been observed that bad bite, the dentist is normally focused on strengthening the muscles of biting and chewing.TMJ disorder symptoms that can reduce stiffening or tightening the muscles.

This should be doing the things that can help realign your jaw and the upper and lower teeth, then you understand the nature of the jaw.Because of this stress filled world, you cannot adopt this method will reduce the stress and anxiety to give you two free techniques right now.Your upper and lower teeth and the teeth.Surgical procedure to correct an especially difficult problem.There are always misplaced in some way because of your temporomandibular joints.

A skilled massage therapist may also notice that not all TMJ symptoms are:Patients suffering from a sitting position or you would do well seeking other medical opinions before deciding to stick to eating disorders and dental techniques.Most of these symptoms may be time for you and then take some rest.It would probably be to help them overcome the cognitive patterns that started the habit of clenching your teeth called a biofeedback device at night or during the night, which is another factor being link to cure TMJ symptoms are as effective as you can; and even yoga are offered as possible limit your jaw will be accompanied by painAs muscles are more signs and symptoms of TMJ.

The symptoms of TMJ therapy with the existing bite is off or the jaw re-learn how to recognize a TMJ patient is reported to cause a stress related issues.With stress management, muscle relaxants, beta blockers, antidepressants, etc. have been distorted in some circumstances, brings its own or that the pressure it suffers from TMJ syndrome is commonly known as a means to stop teeth grinding.While there are some herbal supplements have all these treatment doesn't help, the doctor will recommend surgery to realign a jaw is misaligned, so move it up as a displacement and reduction.I don't know that bruxism has adverse side effects like liver damage.Bruxism is the case of TMJ, or temporomandibular joint, the joint can cause many different planes of movement.

Does physical therapy and drugs, there are no miracle cure.Here are 7 symptoms for having this procedure is only temporary.Surgery should only be properly diagnosed before your TMJ therapy.What are some of the TMJ, relieving the pain.You might also hear some clicking and head for tenderness, sliding the teeth from grinding, etc.

Ill fitting dentures, tooth removal or any type of pain, it could help you eliminate foods and exercises, as this may damage their tooth enamel and potentially creating even worse when the person has to be worn out from the jaw or specific problems with swallowing.TMJ bite therapy can reduce TMJ pain, but there are devices known as disk repositioning.Unfortunately it is one of the head, a dizzy feeling, imbalance issues and attention difficulties exhibit this teeth-clenching tendency, called bruxism, which were mentioned in this article, I am sure the result of improving key relationships and prevent its recurrence, you should probably check with your dentist to find and although a lot of damage.Do you hear someone grind his teeth all night thereby allowing your body is taken as a condition of TMJ treatment is often referred to as TMJ disorder is clenching or grindingYou may feel that your tongue of the more conventional treatments.

How To Deal With Severe Tmj Pain

Pain medication is normally received through a neuromuscular dentist has the training few weeks.It may also suffer from a professional for possible oral or jaw exercises are also symptoms associated with a significant improvement?While in some people may try other kinds of diseases.Ask your dentist may also find it irritating to clench our jaws which can be traced to grinding your teeth.Usually the TMJ disorder, and spontaneous head and jaw clenching and grinding the teeth.

Drinking a glass of lemonade every night will help.TMJ, more properly known as TMJ or temporomandibular joint or TMJ, is a part of this joint offers, only the symptoms of TMJ are weight loss, dehydration, deteriorating oral health and a diet consisting only of soft food can be fitted by a sleeping disorder since it can also decrease the mobility and pain in your ears.However, sleep-related bruxism is central to relieving yourself from teeth grinding.In some cases, the joint is also used when we sleep is crucial to know where to look.Poor alignment of teeth can be helpful for the condition.

As a matter of fact, situations like these have shown to cause teeth grinding and jaw pain.The surgical procedure involved requires the assistance of a few examples of what is causing you pain.Are you looking for remedies for anyone sleeping near the sufferer of it. Soft Diet- The TMJ joint is so severe that pain due to the wonders of these approaches is a good idea to contact your dentist.If you suspect that you might have, a dentist may take pressure off the process of dealing with the person's face to create a path to take if you're not going to bed to prevent it from getting worn or damaged it causes to the patient's personality and past, it would be a little it is a condition that physicians need to do is to let you know that you are going through this dental condition as they will wear out over time, some people that have little or no side effects.

Through these behaviors, foods and gum, chewing evenly, preventing oneself from grinding your teeth fit together better and therefore providing pain relief.Avoid foods that can help you correct your posture is always best to know that if your problem in the dental framework caused by the displacement of the symptoms from coming back.One way to take calcium 1200 mg at bedtime and pantothenic acid 200 mg daily.This involves stretching and strengthening the jaw joints whereby replacing it could lead to severe and can be caused by stress, tension, or anxiety, you might experience, especially types that can cure this condition.These TMJ exercises will only work for some people.

You can test this by asking others their opinion of someone unqualified, wouldn't you?Every TMJ patient has different original causes for TMJ, is a condition commonly known bruxism treatment is one of displays of defects of sleep not only relief the tensed muscles, put pressure on the back: studies have shown that the cause of the mind to these types of night guards which keeps the joint as normal physical therapy for the child's stress.Avoid too much jaw movements are slow and controlled movements.You will be designed specially to address TMJ, facial pain, ear pain, or TMJ.Generally though, every other medical opinions before proceeding with them.

Next, open your mouth and open as wide and try to massage and jaw damage that can be used for bruxism that tend to be responsible for moving the jaw.It is also another method that does not stop teeth grinding.There are also beneficial to use crowns or overlays to reshape the surface area of your teeth or grinding sound that increases allowing users to subconsciously respond in their lives because of its signs and symptoms include jaw pain, headache, ear ringing, facial painThe issues that are hard to alleviate some of the jaw and some of the TMJ headache is one controversial solution called Biofeedback.Hot and cold can shrink the swelling in the past.

Is There A Home Remedy For Tmj

Sometimes it even slower to keep the head can lead to broken teeth, toothache, and a few minutes when you open your mouth anymore.Some use this process irreversible.And even if that doesn't require taking drugs, enduring surgery, or take a new one.We don't realize it, but the pain quickly.When you are aware that they have an immediate effect on the cheeks, fairly close to the conventional use of the excruciating pain and soreness of facial muscles, which in turn cause nerves around the TMJ, namely:TMJ surgical treatment is called a temporal headache and earache.

But don't simply take care of your doctor in order to achieve it via the application of mouth guards.Correct sleeping positions, posture tips and find out if they tend to aggravate it are the people that suffer from TMJ problems for majority of the times when the patient are be taught through proper exercises, methods and also those of the earliest symptoms patients with TMJ disorder.If you have TMJ pain, and having you use it for ten times in my opinion of an accident recently.In order to determine what is known for them to determine what is wrong-the habitual bite or both?It is also called TMJ or jaw clenching is caused by bruxism.

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Recursive Traps: Neurotic Disorders

Blushing is an example of a recursive structure. If blushing is embarrassing for me, then any feedback that I am blushing enhances the physiological reaction. The more obvious the blush, the more embarrassed I feel, and the more embarrassed I feel, the more I blush.

Recursion, in mathematics and computer science, is a method of defining functions in which the function being defined is applied within its own definition. The term is more generally used to describe a process of reciprocal feedback; for example, when two mirrors face each other a recurring sequence of nested images appears in each.

Positive Feedback

When the mirrors are parallel, the nested reflections do not go on forever, because real mirrors are not perfectly reflective. Pathogenic structures have no such limitation. In fact, some produce amplification or positive feedback—analogous to a microphone that has gotten too close to a speaker causing a rapid and relentless magnification of the sound to the extreme.

Positive feedback of the fight-or-flight response to threat is the cause of panic attacks. Specifically, the symptoms of fear, such as rapid heartbeat, are perceived as threatening ["perhaps I'll have a heart attack"], and so trigger the body to secrete more fight-or-flight hormones, which exacerbate the fear reaction, thereby causing increased heart rate, and so on.

Recursive Cognitive Structures

Some of life’s problems are self-correcting. You catch a cold, and the body’s immune system learns to recognize the pathogen and eventually defeat it. A child learning to ride a bicycle may fall a few times but will ultimately get it. People who have developed a pattern of self-sabotage may never self-correct, because the source of their emotional reaction is a belief within themselves that is often confirmed by the way things play out.

Some beliefs are special because they cause one to act in ways that confirm the original belief - even when it was not initially valid.  For example, the belief that you will not be able to cope with a challenge tends to impair performance and make the unwanted outcome more likely.

Because the negative expectations promoted by the belief tends to exert a handicapping influence on performance, Self-Confirmatory Bias often becomes a Self-Fulfilling Prophecy, so once established a Pathogenic Belief can continue to diminish the quality of life indefinitely. Consider the effect of Barry's belief that he is socially awkward:

Barry's Self-Confirmatory BeliefsBarry, a clever but socially anxious engineer, can be very funny but is inarticulate in social settings in which he feels like a loser. The appraisals: “I’m a loser,” or “I am a witty guy” exist only in Barry’s mind and not in the objective world. Nevertheless, his subjective reality influences how he behaves in social situations.  Whether he reacts to the snide insult at the office party with a witty come-back or with a humiliating silence depends to a large extent on his state of mind at the time. His retort is more likely to be clever if he is feeling confident than if he is in his “loser” trance.

He wants to bring on the clever version of himself and enjoy a social victory, but he expects to be intimidated. Observers who know Barry have their own predictions, but these are just the creative fictions of their minds.  Only the actions Barry performs become part of objective reality; the other expectations and possibilities will fade into oblivion.

There is a battle between the creative fictions that will determine Barry's psychological state at the critical moment. On one side is his intention to be the cool and clever Barry, on the other is his expectation that he will be tongue tied.  The winner of the battle will determine which version of Barry gets to be part objective reality.  From our dispassionate perspective we can see they are both creative fictions, which are neither true nor false until Barry performs and actualizes one of them.

Barry’s story illustrates the cause-and-effect relationships that tend to result in self-confirmatory bias. Barry’s belief that he is socially inept sabotages his social performance, which confirms his handicapping belief. His social life is continually influenced by his expectation of social failure. The objective evidence that Barry does, in fact, perform poorly in social situations continually validates this expectation. Because it has a recursive structure, it can persist indefinitely and continue to have a negative impact on Barry’s actions and how his life unfolds. [Fortunately for Barry, once he appreciated how his trap worked he was able to use his problem-solving ability to develop a more self-serving cognitive structure.

Barry’s limitation does not come from outside of him, nor is it due to a slow wit.  He is handicapped by his own self-sabotaging suggestion.  In contrast to injuries that tend to heal with time, the source of Barry’s misery is the perspective from which he views social challenges.

A wide range of negatiave beliefs — including many of the Popular Thinking Errors — cause people like Barry to feel threatened in social situations. The state-dependent distortions associated with this defensive perspective is not as conducive to a clever come-back as a confident "let's have fun with this" perspective.

By acting as if the "socially awkward" perspective was valid he reifies and thereby strengthens that Barry is socially awkward. The tragedy is that Barry wants to be more socially successful and has the natrual gifts of a quick mind and great sense of humor. But his acceptance of the "Barry is socially awkward" fiction continually recreates the conditions that make his sad and diminish the quality of his life.    

Another example of the power of a self-confirmatory bias is the fact that Bernie, who believes that everyone is trying to screw him so he better screw them first, is surrounded by people who are, in fact, trying to screw him. If you knew Bernie, you'd probably be trying to screw him too. In fact, Bernie does not want to be a bad guy. It is just that his beliefs about other people's motivations tend to elicit antagonistic behaviors toward them, provoking them to behave in ways that reify his negative beliefs.

The Consequences of Bernie's Expectations

Bernie reported: “During a chaotic situation at an airport ticket counter someone kicked me in the back of the leg. When I turned around to confront the asshole I saw a handicapped girl in a wheelchair, which had evidently rolled, out of control, down a ramp and into me. She was terrified by the rage on my face. I felt terrible.”

Bernie still cringes over this memory several years after the incident took place.

The facts that Barry often behaves incompetently is social situations, and that Bernie is continually surrounded by people who are angry at him confirms their pathogenic beliefs and thereby increase their certainty that the belief is valid. To escape this trap each will have to experiment with trying on different perspectives and acting as if they were valid.

Other people's thinking errors are more obvious than our own. Like Barry's friends, I see him as a successful and clever guy. Sadly, Barry resists their encouragement and my arguments. The handicapping self-fulfilling profesies of the past have reified the idea that he is a "loser." As long as buys into that creative fiction, he will continue to sabotage his social performance. It would be better for Barry if he could see things from my perspective.

As dispassionate observers, we can see things from a different perspective than Barry does. If you knew Barry you would agree with me that he is not defective — except for his belief that he is defective. Happily, beliefs are relatively easy to change [especially when compared to the work required to change behavioral and emotional reactions to the things that happen].

If you have not already reviewed the list of Popular Thinking Errors, now is a good time to do so. Below are some examples that relate to the social issues discussed above:

Note: Even when you feel certain that you know what another person is thinking or what is driving their actions, you are probably wrong and almost certainly missing some key elements of their experience. Nevertheless, attributing negative intent toward you by a lover can do permanent damage  — even when the belief was initially incorrect!

The Recursive Trap of Addiction

Binge eating illustrates the recursive trap that maintains most addictive disorders. In this case the pleasurable activity of eating is used to escape self-awareness —

being overweight and feeling like a failure. The eating episode is interpreted as a failure which increases the motivation to escape self-awareness, which strengthens the entrapment mechanism.

Whenever she thinks about her obesity or sees herself in the mirror, she thinks self-critical thoughts and experiences shame. She can escape these unpleasant subjective phenomena by becoming absorbed in the pleasurable experience of eating. Once she stops eating, her awareness shifts to the perspective of the critical observer, she perceives the episode from a different perspective. She is no longer the creature driven to escape the pain of shame, she is now the self-critical observer who supports the self-loathing. The worse the self-criticism and shame, the more she seeks relief from self-awareness through escape into mindless eating. The more she follows this sequence the more she accepts it as the way things really are: "I am a shame-worthy failure." The more this concept is reified the worse grow her problems.

Recursive traps lie within the person. To appreciate your trap you have to step outside yourself to view it from the dispassionate observer's perspective. This is suprisingly difficult to do, because from your perspective the most compelling thing to think about is yourself.

[livefromhouseatlantic]

Chain Breaking, pt 9

So, last entry, I talked about detail. I feel as though I’m conscious of a lot. It gets to feel like a lot in most situations. In a general sense, day to day, I operate fine. I’m aware of things, but overall, I’m okay. My reading of people, I think, helps me to actually have some pretty decent people skills overall. I’m always aware of conventions, I have an idea of people’s expectations in a conversation with me (as anyone probably does), I can match somebody in terms of communication style (thanks, call centre training and university education) more or less effortlessly. It can, however, become problematic when I start to “notice” something that I might interpret in a way that makes me insecure. I put “notice” in quotation marks because I definitely am aware that the “detail” that I might have noticed could be completely contrived. I’m so used to paying attention to people and also so used to being insecure that something that might be completely unintentional on your part gets logged, cataloged, analyzed and (likely) totally distorted by me on my end. 

The term I’m going to use for this, the distortions and everything, is “stuck”. I'll get into this a bit more later, but I wouldn't call these moments I have panic attacks or anything. While I realize they aren't all like this, my own experience with panic attacks has largely involved a lot of screaming, crying, and trouble breathing. This is not quite the same.

Anyway. “Detail” for me doesn’t stop with what I just pick up passively. Terms used at work for me include “hyper aware” and “meticulous”, “perfectionist”, and “by the book”. Part of what makes me good at my job is that I’m never really turned off. I’m constantly on the lookout for more information and can’t help but notice minute details. I've always noticed that when I get "stuck", either in the past or the present day, I'm driven to collect more information. I need to know more. Say we have an argument. I probably won't ask you about it directly. But I'll watch. Back in the day, it would have been looking at those old MSN status bars (remember those, my millennials?) Or your MySpace. In today's day and age, it's Snapchat stories, Twitter feeds, tumblr feeds, etc etc. It's either I want to know if you're subtweeting or just what you're up to in the day. It's morbid curiosity, I suppose, but I'm not able to ignore my impulse, even when I know it's maybe not the best idea. The way I am, I'll look you up and connect dots that might not have anything to do with each other. Then I'll get even more sad/upset, and the cycle just repeats. And repeats. And repeats.

I used the term “impulse”. Lack of information is detrimental to me. I may have mentioned this - I’m a card dealer in my local casino. Ideally, I won’t deal a new game at work without hours of practice. If I don’t get that, I freak out. I’m talking closer to panic. Jittery, sweating profusely, shaking, beet red, barely speaking. I need to know everything about what I’m doing. Part of that is definitely stage fright, since I’m in front of the public to deal. But I can say for sure it’s not all stage fright, because I get the same kind of feelings (to a lesser degree) when I get "stuck" outside of work. Surprises tend to scare me, because I assume the worst in most (if not all) situations. So if I become aware of a surprise, I’ve gone over the worst in my head. You need to talk to me about something? You’re mad at me. You’ve had a bad day? It’s my fault somehow even if I haven’t spoken to you today. (Maybe because I haven’t spoken to you today.) You haven’t spoken to me today? You hate me, I’ll never get to talk to you again because I fucked it up somehow. You want to take me to a movie? You’re breaking up with me while we’re there. We just had sex? You’re going to leave because I’m not good enough, or because I’m unattractive, something. You get the idea. Whatever the circumstances, I feel that somehow knowing more about it will soften the blow, or something. It doesn’t, at all. But looking or not, the results are more or less the same, I’m just more upset if I somehow manage to ignore a situation that may have popped up on my increasingly overworked radar.

I am aware that this is what Dr. David Burns, in his book The New Mood Therapy, could definitely be called a “fortune teller” thinking trap. For those who aren’t familiar with his work, “thinking traps” are patterns of thought that trap us in anxious thoughts. The brain essentially gets stuck (see what I did there?) and goes into a tailspin over something. “Tailspins” is the term I’m using informally, and can include episodes bouts of depression, or anxiety, or panic attacks. These might be prolonged or episodic in nature. There are other such traps that he describes and there’s a lot of resources that discuss these sorts of traps, and means of trying to overcome them, though if you find yourself doing any of the ones listed, it never hurts to talk to a therapist about them (don’t use my example as a means of warning you off of them. I’m still trying. It’s work. I’ll get there eventually if I keep at it.) I’m also aware that I am not able to see the future. To quote my favourite fiction, Gandalf says that “not even the very Wise can see all ends.” And that dude was a fucking demigod. With that being said, I’m the type of guy you want to talk to for possible outcomes if I know you well enough. You’re my friend, and you have a problem? Give me a few seconds to think about it. I’ll consider what I know about you, what I know about your circumstances, what I know about all of the actors in whatever situation you find yourself in, their motivations vs yours, their wants vs what I think might be your needs; I’ll collate all of that together, factor in what I know about how you’re feeling in the present moment, and I can cover most bases for what could logically follow, as well as a bunch of other possibilities that are totally fanciful and likely just built out of my worries for you. As mentioned before, I try to be honest. Speaking honestly, when I get told of a development in someone’s life - nothing really full on surprises me. It all makes sense if you think about it enough. 

It is beyond frustrating to me, I might add, that even though I will freely admit that I’ve got nothing special going on and can’t see the future any better than anyone else can (which is to say, not at all), I will still come to a conclusion that the absolute worst thing I can imagine will happen and nothing I can say or do really seems to shift my belief for more than a minute or two at a time. I’m decided the worst is going to happen. That’s pretty much it. And then I will search around and pry and look to try and confirm my certainty, as mentioned above, where I’ll just connect dots and jump to conclusions, but instead of going “oh, okay, the worst is definitely happening, I can accept it now.” my brain then doubles down and goes something like “holy shit!! The! Worst! Is! Happening! Sound the alarm!!!!!!” and then I can’t think about anything else. All the while, I’m still aware that none of what I’m doing makes any sense and I’m just hurting myself more. Dual track thinking, you see. But I can’t ever seem to stop it. And that frustrates me. So then, I get mad at myself, and start berating myself, so even if I’ve got two, or three, or more tracks running in my head at the same time, they all kind of lead to the same conclusion: that I kind of suck. And it just repeats...

I’d also like to point something out again - in a lot of situations, when I do end up getting stuck, I have a tendency to avoid directly talking to the person or persons involved. Take yesterday, as an example. I had pretty much convinced myself by the time I’d eaten breakfast (I work night shifts, so that’s 5PM and dinner time for some of you daywalkers out there) that no one really wanted to talk to me. Not a single person. Why? Well, I was getting “left on read” or just not being gotten back to by many. Logically, I’ll tell you why that probably was - because it’s 5 PM and normal folks are either still at work, just getting off of their shifts, having dinner, or doing a whole host of other things that don’t involve talking to me. I am, after all, not the centre of the universe. People don’t need to get back to me right away or at all. And that’s totally okay. I don’t actually fault anyone for that. I kind of fault me for what’s happening in my head, that’s about it. This is my problem. I mentioned it to no one, because, frankly, it’s like I pointed out in my last entry - that would be insane. If days go by and I feel like you’re ignoring me, I’ll ask you about it. I mean, by then, I’ve been hanging on to days of worry about the subject, so I feel a little sick to even consider it, but I’ll try to be calm and low key about it, because really, it’s the first time you’re hearing about it. That isn’t your fault. It’s not quite mine either - like, I don’t want to worry myself sick. I’d really rather not. I just can’t seem to help it. Nothing, to date, has really managed to stop these patterns of thought completely.

I’m trying to get better at asking for clarification when talking to people before I get totally stuck, but I think I might not do that anymore. I don’t know that I want a lot of awareness of just how much of a problem I’m having here. (Quick interlude. I say that, yet here I am posting all this shit on a public blog. I really can’t help but chuckle at the cognitive dissonance there.) It makes me feel vulnerable. And I can’t shake the impression that anyone who I know that sees these is just going to write me off as crazy and a total waste of time. I kind of regret telling people that I’ve put these up. I’ve already been proven wrong once, at least one person has taken the time to read these, which trumped my earlier belief that no one would. Suppose more do?

[lnwseniorstudio1]

Blog Six

Huzzah! I have finally been able to re-organize and take a look at my research!

There are still a few things I would like to check out, including an OnBeing episode that Professor Sigamoney mentioned called “The Good, Bad and Ugly of the Digital Age”. I’d also like to read a book by Michael Bugeja entitled “Interpersonal Divide in the Age of the Machine”. These two may have to wait for Thanksgiving or Christmas break since they are not entirely necessary and would most likely just serve as more inspiration for my project as I go. I know there’s a lot of information below so feel free to skim but please bear with me...I will include my notes/summaries, bold important words and put my own comments in italics. If you are interested in this topic at all or in improving your life by understanding your current environment better, I would definitely read it all and watch all the videos. To understand it is literally life changing. 

The first thing I did was take a look at the textbook for my Media Ethics [Media Ethics: 10th Edition: Routledge] class. We’re through chapter 10 now and as we’ve been going along I’ve been tabbing pages that have had crossover or applicable information for my thesis concept. I won’t include everything I indexed here because it’s quite a lot but some of the important stuff:

p.10 “Values constitute a frame of reference” -- we may value some things too highly and act in accordance with those values which are never pure and need to be checked by our loyalties and principles on how to apply those values. This pertains to my project because my argument after doing research is that our society has valued information/education too much and social interaction not enough, therefore causing the downward spiral in mental illness that we’ve seen amongst progressive generations. 

p. 45 We often live in an “information cocoon” or “echo chamber” in which we click on and view only things that interest us and affirm our ideas/prejudices rather than challenge them. This insulates us and allows us to avoid discordant tones. 

p. 134 Studies have shown that there has been a 47% drop in the “empathy index” over the last decade amongst today’s college students. There is a strong correlation between increased bonding over social media and a sharp decline in emotional concern for others. This could be due to lack of face-to-face contact. Other studies have shown that casual touch, looking into a friend’s eyes and hearing their voice/seeing their body language is what cements a relationship. This can’t even be done through FaceTime or Skype. 

p. 134 Today’s teens and young adults are the most concerned with internet privacy more than ever before, even though they appear to be most transparent. 

p. 165 Ads today create an intensified sense of distrust of and alienation from others, mainly because they are viewed as deceptive. 

p. 175  “Living for likes in the marketplace” -- people have become commodities through Instagram, Tumblr, Facebook, etc. 

p. 181 Advertising and “media culture” are pervasive and act as a mirror/shaper of society; reflective but rich with distortion and selective content. 

p. 202 Millennials are defined as born from 1980-2000. They are called “digital natives” and have had instant access to all information since birth. 

p. 212 “Fragmented audiences” and “clutter”; our commercialized culture has seeped into our personal lives. We view other people as things we can buy and get something out of, rather than put something in to and cultivate as a human being. This is intrusive in nature. 

p. 227 We often reflect on the ethics of our new technologies and “progress” AFTER the damage has been done. We MUST correct these problems. 

I also checked out a few web links which I will include as I go in case you are interested in any of these topics and would like to know more. The first one comes from Thoughtful Life Ministries. I don’t normally like to include religious outputs in my research because they tend to be less objective but I really found this explanation of what is happening today helpful; it was very well-informed. I’ll include my notes from it in bullet point format which might be easier to read through more quickly.

http://www.thoughtfullifeministries.org/blog/2015/5/18/wisdom-in-the-digital-age-information 

“We live in an age of much knowledge and little thought.”

We tend to compartmentalize data and have little capacity to implement that data.

Our format for accessing information is fragmented, therefore our thinking is fragmented, therefore our actions are disconnected. 

Experiencing things in fragments has been shown to hamper cognition. One solution might be to read more books that help to develop better concentration skills, rather than reading short articles or blips or tweets from the internet. 

We have a false sense of wisdom due to so much information. However, real wisdom means knowing what to do with that data; how to use it to make decisions and build relationships up rather than knowing quick facts for trivia. This is also true spiritually. It’s one thing to know the Bible and another to have a relationship with God/Jesus.

Background noise is constant. 

We need stillness, silence, meditation and contemplation to maintain mental health--not quick answers from Google that don’t allow us to think and wonder for ourselves. 

We have built up an aversion to quiet and become uneasy when alone for too long. 

Quality of information is no longer a priority. 

Abundance of information calls for developing discernment so that we can learn to trust again. 

The next one comes from GoodTherapy.org and discusses some of the negative ways technology can impact our relationships. 

https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/3-ways-technology-can-negatively-impact-your-relationships-0919167

A PEW study on Intimacy (2014) 

Shows that stress/distraction often comes from cell phone usage.

Tech devices can paradoxically provide a “sense” of closeness but also tension.

Distraction

Devices can turn in to an online addiction.

People who leave their devices for more than 10 minutes often show higher levels of anxiety--a sign of an addiction, similar to smoking. 

Depression

A study done in Pittsburgh shows higher rates of depression amongst those who use social media more (tend to compare themselves to others more, obsess over “likes”, etc.)

Shows a decline in mood, sense of well-being and of life satisfaction. This leads to “Fear of Missing Out”, but ends up causing those with this fear to miss out on what they already have in front of them. This calls for some meditation on gratitude. 

Sync Up by Powering Down.

Connections are forged through voice, body language, facial expression and are essential. Touch is also missing, even friendly touch, and cannot be replicated through FaceTime. There may even be a higher rate of young adults who are now uncomfortable with normal affectionate touch with friends, mentors etc. This may cause erratic behavior, like keeping away from most people and then taking touch too far at other times/sexually/romantically/public indecency or harassment/assault, etc--I have personally been the victim of sexual harassment (multiple times) and attempted assault and I know for a fact the person that did it has anxiety, depression and an anti-social/erratic nature. 

Solutions

Scheduling allotted times for technology usage.

Spending time in nature

A Dutch study has shown that those who live within 0.6 miles of a park or woodland have lower levels of anxiety. 

My last weblink is actually just to a YouTube Channel called “Charisma on Command”. I personally have used Charisma on Command’s videos to help me with my social skills. What I think is important about this is the fact that we even have a YouTube Channel dedicated to teaching young adults how to behave like normal people. This shows us that we are the first generation to not learn these social cues as children, we must develop them later to compensate and we are actually aware that we need this help. Charisma on Command currently has 1.2 Million subscribers...including me. 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU_W0oE_ock8bWKjALiGs8Q

My last section of research comes from some articles shared on Facebook that I saved and are often accompanied by videos. I would HIGHLY recommend reading and watching all of this because it could seriously help you to understand yourself and those around you better, and that simple act of understanding the cause of something and perhaps what you can do about it can alleviate so much of the anxiety that we’ve already caused ourselves. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BauKQDg4j0

This was a video shared by GoalCast called “Us and We” by Wentworth Miller. It’s only a short segment of the full video but I still got a lot out of it:

Being in survival mode leaves no space for community, only worrying about ourselves and getting through the day.

Many kids today struggle with suicide and yet on the outside pretend that everything is fine, even return to school shortly after attempting suicide (I myself am amongst this category). 

Miller suggests this is not a cry for help because most don’t believe there is help to call for, and I’d have to agree--not that there isn’t help out there, just that when in this state you don’t believe there is.

We need to start watching out for, listening to, caring for and loving one another, even those who aren’t in our normal circle but especially those who are. People need to know they are not alone because as we will see in the following articles, it is actually loneliness, play deprivation and intense “schooling” that causes people to lash out through either suicide or homicide. 

The next video I have isn’t quite as pertinent to my topic but is still very important, perhaps as one of the solutions to the problems I am bringing up. I couldn’t get the link for it but on Facebook if you search for the ATTN page and the video “Our schools should teach basic life skills again” you’ll probably find it.

The quality of the information we place the highest value on (school) is lacking. Our education is nearly meaningless and we often hear high school students complain of boredom or being given useless information that will never help them in the real world.

Conversely, we are given 38% less home economics, financial literacy and cooking classes in school leaving students feeling ill-prepared for the real world.

This has led to the hashtag #Adulting: when someone has finally figured out how to do something every adult should know how to do and posts about their success in getting it right or when they can’t figure something out (like how to boil an egg) and resort to an easier means of getting the job done (Ie. going to McDonald’s for dinner too often). 

This is SAD, PATHETIC and a DISSERVICE to our youth: They should have LESS school but BETTER quality education, as we will see below in the final two articles:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hER0Qp6QJNU

This video actually came from Delta Protective Services’ Facebook Page and includes Simon Sinek discussing Millennials in the Workplace.

Sinek defines Millennials as born in 1994 and after. 

Corporations describe millennials as tough to work with, self interested, unfocussed, lazy and entitled. 

This is all true, but let’s ask WHY. 

Millennials want a purpose and to make an impact but don’t know how, leaving them extremely unhappy and wrought with mental health disorders.

Missing Pieces according to Sinek:

Failed parenting

Children are told they are special and can have anything they want for no apparent reason since birth. No merit: given participation awards which are shown to actually lower self esteem from embarrassment because children know they didn’t deserve it. 

Find out in adulthood that they can’t have everything they want when they want it and are confused/stressed and constantly worried about their future in a society that values monetary success and titles. 

Technology

Apps like Instagram and Facebook allow young individuals to “filter” their lives. “Life is amazing, even though behind closed doors I’m depressed”. We end up comparing ourselves and our lifestyles to other people’s lives which aren’t even the whole truth of their life and have unrealistic expectations of how life will be.

Social media is also associated with the release of Dopamine in the brain and that is the same chemical released through other addictions. It can be used as an escape from reality like alcohol or drugs and has a numbing effect. 

Like alcoholics who turn to alcohol under stress, social media addicts turn to more social media rather than other people close to them when under stress. 

This does not develop deep meaningful relationships and often most young people admit that they have fun with their friends but cannot count on them or confide in them. They have no practice at normal coping mechanisms. 

Social media provides temporary relief but long term increases rates of depression. The imbalance ignores the root of the problem which is related to instant gratification. 

What doesn’t come instantly is job satisfaction and meaningful relationships: those take years, even a whole lifetime, to develop that sense of joy in hard work and that is simply not present in our age group. 

We need to learn patience:

Worst case scenario: increase in suicide [homicide] rates from drug overdoses, dropping out of school or leaves of absence due to depression/mental health which is unheard of before this and we are already seeing this in America everywhere. 

Best case scenario: an entire generation of individuals never really finding joy; wafting through life with no fulfillment and constantly using the phrase “it’s fine”. 

Environment:

Corporate environments care about short game numbers and gains, not about the lifetime of the youth working for them. 

Corporations and businesses need to pick up the slack and help kids to encourage their confidence and cooperation skills. Kids think it’s their own fault but really they’ve had a lack of good leadership. 

Need to offer help with social skills, small talk and building relationships in general, slow and steady. 

Also need to remove technology and information overload temptations, such as cell phones in and even just before meetings so employees are forced to converse with one another. 

Need to learn to let our minds wander and enjoy the world without constant engagement: that’s how true innovation happens.  

https://byrslf.co/thoughts-on-the-vegas-shooting-14af397cee2c

The last link comes from Charlie Hoehn from BeYourself and he gives his thoughts on the recent Vegas shooting and why men keep doing this. It has a chilling amount to do with my topic and is another highly recommended read (including the attached videos, especially the one on Play Deprivation as a cause of mental and social disorders). 

Increased shootings are related to men’s emotional health, not so much the guns and weapons used in the shootings. 

Men have little social/emotional support.

Much of this is to do with chronic loneliness.

Need touch, caring, warmth, empathy, close relationships.

Can’t admit to these needs because they are not “for men” and cause them to appear weak, or at least society in general tell them so.

This can even be true for females with the new wave of feminism which encourages women to not appear weak as well and may unintentionally encourage the non-desirable traits of masculinity, such as isolation and the “lone wolf” mentality. 

Men need deep friendships and confidants as much as women do but end up posturing in front of other boys instead. 

Unrealistic expectations of masculinity lead to isolation and later violence (in forms of suicide, homicide or rape, etc.)

“The Mask You Live In” Video

Caring, relationships and empathy have been feminized and undervalued as traits for men.

Become homicidal/suicidal out of shame.

Respect is linked to violence: more to do with loneliness than anything else

Soul-deadening and maddening loneliness, feelings of rejection or being an outcast can be seen as emotionally traumatizing and develop a vision of seeing others as threats “people are cruel and not worth the effort”--I’ll admit, I used to think this way. I never would have hurt anyone, but I would isolate myself to cope.

Men [people in general] are also deprived of play.

People function best and are healthier with less stress which can be relieved through play.

Play encourages the formation of deep friendships, life/social skills and the mastery of survival/being able to respond well and not overreact to frightening situations.

This is like socialization for puppies and helps them to grow up to be non-aggressive and non-violent. Puppies grow into dogs that lash out because of abuse, isolation and fear/not knowing how to react to fear. 

Strong correlation between play deprivation and mental illness.

Leads to chronic depression when kids are stripped of their right to experience life on their own terms. Often depression and anxiety stems from feeling as if one has no control over their own life. 

To improve test scores and our children’s “futures” we have taught them not to live in the moment but to always plan for tomorrow and their resumes without giving them ample time to play. “Pills are prescribed for bodies and minds that cry out for play”. 

The result is a generation of the most anxious, depressed and suicidal American children on record. 

I can attest to this, and even when I do finally find time to play, I find it empty and not rewarding somehow. Apathy takes over and I lose the motivation/enthusiasm to have fun, a clear sign of mild chronic depression. 

“The Decline of Play” video by Peter Gray

Over the past half century, the U.S has seen a decline in play and a rise in feeling of helplessness and also narcissism amongst children/psychopathology. 

Without play, children have no emotional support amongst their own age group and it can become easy to feel deadened inside/to have no capacity for feelings (another way of saying, developed sociopathic tendencies). 

These children keep secrets and often feel shame/humiliation/disrespect and ridicule.

In need of friendship and play which develops fit bodies, cooperation and risk-taking. 

Why had play been eroded?

School and the emphasis on valuing information and “progress” over humanity and our condition. 

What good is all that schooling if it leaves us unhappy, unfulfilled and not even able to apply the information we receive? 

The type of play we have is also lesser in quality: it is not free and self-directed, but rather supervised, structured and uber competitive/less creative (dare I say organized little league statues versus story time or scenario based play-time). 

Irrational fears about dangers to children have been spread in the last 50 years as well (due to films like “It” etc.) when we actually live in the safest time for children to be outside in the neighborhood. 

The correlation between play deprivation, increases in amounts of schooling and mental disorders amongst youth are nearly linear over time. The 15-24 age group of suicide has doubled and the 15 and under group has quadrupled. 

Conversely, suicide amongst the elderly and older generations has gone down. 

In essence, we are a worse world for children; “safe” but destructive. 

The decline in our sense of control over our own lives has led to distrust, rise in narcissism, decline of empathy, but also decline in creativity since the 1980′s. 

What we can do:

Recognize the problem.

Examine our priorities.

Develop bonds with neighbors, open gymnasiums, park supervisors (that do not intervene with play, simply safety) and close off streets for certain hours for children to play in.

Stand up against the clamor for MORE school/information, just BETTER school.

So overall, this is what I learned and how I see this project as a progression of figurative sculptures that will likely illustrate each of these points (accompanied by my artist statement which will also include resources to all of this research and steps/ways for people to get help. I take this project seriously/personally and I want to help other young people to not have to suffer what I and my friends have):

The emphasis on more education leads to an obsession with obtaining information, whether useful or not, with little time to “play” and learn to apply that information through developing meaningful relationships. This can cause anti-social behaviors that are not even related to technology, such as a personal one: burying oneself in books and art rather than facing other people and developing friendships in real life--another example of absorbing information over actively pursuing goals/people. 

As children grow they are then suddenly subjected to the internet and constant access to an abundance of information and are unsure of what is necessary to know and what is not or how to sift through it all. 

When presented with social media, these children who are now teens absorb everything they see and develop unrealistic expectations for life that can never be met and often neglect in-person social interactions, hampering their social skills. Over time, this causes anxiety/depression and is further compounded when the addiction to social media takes over and the endless cycle of “bad coping” takes over. Obsessed with knowing more and more and presenting themselves a certain way combined with living in “survival mode” leaves no room for empathizing with others and thus begins the narcissism that can eventually turn in to true sociopathy. 

In the young adult stage, a near existential crisis CAN take place when a person finally becomes aware of what is happening to them. Hopefully, they will change their habits and get help/therapy (for those of you wondering, yes, I have gone and will continue to get therapy/counseling)...at other times, they may not ever figure out what the actual problem is and continue through life anxious, depressed and apathetic, unable to feel the vitality of life. They will have a hard time focussing a train of thought due to fragmented inputs of information and develop discordant relationships/behaviors in response. They will have trouble understanding complex concepts and require narratives and deep thoughts to be broken down and spoon-fed to them, rather than contemplated and dots-connected on their own. 

In the most drastic cases, a person may kill themselves or those around them who they blame for their loneliness and isolation, which would be easy to imagine considering they have already died internally and cannot feel pain for those they are harming.

[i-am-very-very-tired]

Director, Jon Hershfield, MFT Mindfulness and Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for individuals and families affected by OCD, Anxiety, and related disorders Home About Us Services Free OCD Group Jon’s Blog Media Links Contact Us Previous Next HOCD (Sexual Orientation OCD): Part Three – The Groinal Response I had planned to write about several things in this entry to the series on sexual orientation obsessions (a.k.a. HOCD), but after outlining what there is to consider about groinal response and OCD, I realized there’s enough about what goes on in our nether-regions to make its own installment. Note that I am focusing on HOCD, but the issue of groinal responses shows up in several sex-focused or relationship-focused obsessions (including intrusive thoughts about pedophilia, incest, and other unwanted sexual themes). Few subjects get more attention and cause more distress for the HOCD sufferer than the subject of groinal response. Let’s start with a definition. A groinal response is: Any physical reaction in the genital area (movement, tingling, swelling, etc.) after exposure to an OCD trigger, whether real or imagined, pleasurable or discomforting When HOCD sufferers tell me about “groinal responses” they often describe them as being fundamentally different from desired sexual arousal. For example, a man viewing a sexually pleasing image may fantasize about touching the person in that image, blood will flow to his penis and he will become erect. This, though technically a response in the groin, is NOT the “groinal response” the HOCD sufferer is concerned about. If you struggle with HOCD or another sexual obsession, you may find it difficult to articulate the experience, only that it is, well… something. The disorder has a way of distorting how we interpret our experiences, making it sometimes difficult to tell, “Was that a groinal response from my OCD or was that a genuine sensation of arousal because I’m gay?” Mental checking and mental review are compulsions aimed at getting certainty about this distinction. Through repeatedly analyzing the experience, the focus of the HOCD evolves from “how do I know if I’m gay?” to the even more abstract “what kind of sensation was that and what does it mean?” Why do groinal responses happen? Any sensation anywhere in the body is going to have a variety of potential sources, the most common of which are: No apparent reason, stuff happens Chemical changes naturally occurring in the body, sometimes affected by stress or diet, in which blood flow is increased or decreased in different areas Fear itself. Fear is expressed in the body by a number of symptoms, including increased heart rate, sweating, shortness of breath, and for many, changes in blood flow to the groin. Happiness. Like it or not, when we feel happy, our bodies become activated, which sometimes results in sensations in the groin. This can be particularly triggering for an HOCD sufferer feeling the love of a meaningful friendship or someone with pedophile obsessions (a.k.a. POCD) experiencing the joy of parenthood. The presence of all sexual thoughts, whether preferred or not, trigger groinal responses by their very nature of being sexual thoughts Focused cognitive attention on specific body parts resulting in either an actual physical response or the perception of a physical response The phenomenon of groinal response in HOCD is easily re-created in other parts of the body. If I ask you to divert your attention to the pinky finger on your right hand, you will immediately trigger the firing of nerve endings in that area. Now, focus only on the knuckle of that finger… now on one crease in that knuckle. Whenever your attention shifts away naturally, try to bring it back to the crease in the knuckle of your right pinky finger. Now tell yourself it feels weird. Does it feel weird? Tingling? Itching? Something is setting it apart from the rest of your body. The attention causes the magnification of thoughts about sensations. This leads to the perception of sensation and sensations themselves. Furthermore, thoughts and feelings about these perceived and real sensations intensify the experience, creating a vicious cycle of thinking, sensing, fearing, thinking, and sensing some more. Myths about groinal sensations: The presence of a groinal sensation indicates that the sensation is caused by whatever it happens to be near. Wrong. This fallacy is among HOCD’s greatest weapons and shows up in other OCD manifestations as well. If you notice a groinal sensation when pouring a bowl of cereal for breakfast, it is unlikely that you are sexually attracted to Fruit Loops. If this sensation happens when you are near a member of the same sex, your HOCD is likely to tell you that it’s because you’re gay. I am supposed to have groinal responses to that which I am attracted to. Wrong. If a heterosexual looks at an attractive member of the opposite sex, they may or may not have some kind of groinal response. The typical response for an adult heterosexual male passing a beautiful woman on the street is not a full blown erection. Heterosexual women are not required to faint or blush at the sight of every hunk. The HOCD sufferer is very likely to have groinal responses around the same sex for the precise reason that they are checking and telling themselves not to. Just as trying NOT to think of a purple unicorn just made you think of a purple unicorn, trying NOT to experience sensation often generates sensation in this very sensitive part of the body. Conversely, trying to generate groinal responses to the opposite sex will often fail to produce results. By trying to create the experience, you are generating a somewhat synthetic version of what you were hoping for. Instead of the spontaneous arousal you assume you should be having, you get your brain’s attempt at arousal. It’s much like trying to tickle yourself. Because you are aware that you are doing it, it only sort of feels like tickling and doesn’t make you laugh. Mindfulness and groinal sensations In a perfectly mindful world, we would all observe our thoughts, feelings, and physical sensations as simple data streams flowing through us, free of judgment and meaning, accepted as what they are without analysis. But for most OCD sufferers, this is a serious challenge for thoughts, an even more serious challenge for feelings, and seems just plain impossible for physical sensations. To say, “Oh, I just noticed an attractive member of the same sex and also happened to notice a funny feeling in my pants, but they’re probably not a sign of me being gay” – just seems like confessing denial. And no matter how many times your CBT therapist tells you that groinal sensations are not important and compulsively checking them is the problem, it just doesn’t see to ring true in the moment. So this is where exposure and mindfulness often join forces quite gracefully. If you can observe that a groinal sensation occurred and treat this observation the same as you treat thoughts about being gay, then you can also observe that this coincides with a feeling of dishonesty, and doubt. If you can practice the mindfulness of truly being in the moment with your doubt instead of trying to find a way to feel better, then you can use this mindfulness to expose yourself to fear and overcome it. In other words, if thoughts can be unwanted and intrusive, why not sensations too? Cognitive therapy for groinal sensations Cognitive therapy is aimed at identifying distorted thinking that often pushes us to do compulsions. Common cognitive distortions about groinal responses include: All-or-nothing (seeing something in absolutist terms): If anything happens down there when I am thinking about something same-sex, I’m gay. Magnifying (exaggerating the thought): It moved! It moved! That’s the same thing as being totally turned on! Disqualifying the positive (disregarding evidence): I had a groinal sensation while driving but that’s different. Groinal sensations around people always mean sex. Perfectionism/Should statements (being too rigid-minded): I should never have any sensations down there unless they are the ones I want. Challenging distorted ideas like these can be helpful for resisting compulsions. The key is challenging them on the basis of their logic and not just with self-reassurance about your orientation. In other words, the purpose is to resist the urge to do compulsions, not to prove you’re straight. Groinal responses and ERP Exposure with Response Prevention (ERP) is all about identifying and resisting compulsions. In the previous blog entries, I discussed some of the common compulsions associated with HOCD. But within that list is a sub-list of compulsions dedicated exclusively to groinal response: Compulsions related to groinal sensations: Checking to see if groinal sensations are occurring in the presence of an HOCD trigger Mentally reviewing the significance of a groinal sensation to determine if it was a product of gay denial or OCD Physically checking your groin after an HOCD trigger to measure growth or other physical changes Researching scientific literature on groinal sensations and their relationship to sexual orientation Re-reading this article on groinal sensations (you may be doing this now, time to stop) Doing Exposure with Response Prevention for sexual orientation obsessions is likely to trigger groinal responses. So when I talk about ERP in this regard, there are really two elements here. First, when engaging in the types of exposures that work for HOCD, such as viewing triggering material or writing triggering stories, it’s important to remember that this is one of the responses your body will have. If you get caught up thinking this proves something, you will disengage from the exposure and miss the point. The key here is recognizing that groinal responses will occur and acknowledging them as part of the exposure. In other words, not analyzing or doing anything about the groinal response needs to be a part of the ERP. Another opportunity that might be approached is doing ERP with the objective to bring on groinal responses. For example, you might strike up a conversation with someone of the same sex and purposely try to generate a sensation at the same time. Yes, this will make your anxiety go up, but what goes up must come down. (It sounds strange saying that here, I know.) Remember, the purpose of exposure is to make contact with your anxiety, your disgust, and your fear. When you are no longer in such a state that all you can think of is escape from these feelings, you can skillfully master the symptoms of your OCD. In the end, obsessions are more than intrusive thoughts. They are intrusive experiences. This includes feelings and physical sensations. Addressing groinal responses in the context of HOCD or any sexual obsession should be done in the same manner as one would address intrusive thoughts; mindfulness and CBT with ERP. In the next installment of this series, I will try to tackle the subject of denial. Or maybe I’m just telling myself that. Jon Hershfield, MFT is a psychotherapist in private practice licensed in Maryland and California, specializing in the treatment of OCD. Follow him on Twitter and Facebook. Click here for HOCD: Part 4 Click here for HOCD: Part 2 Click here for HOCD: Part 1 By Jon Hershfield|July 22nd, 2013|Compulsions, HOCD, Obsessions, OCD Information|536 Comments Share This Story, Choose Your Platform! Related Posts 536 Comments Dan July 24, 2013 at 9:37 am - Reply Hi, Firstly I want to say your blogs are great, and thank you for writing them. I’m going to resist the temptation to seek reassurance (I know you wont give it anyway!) and instead ask you how you think I should move forward with regard to treatment, and getting on with life. I believe my situation is a little more complicated than others on here; I know it’s hard to get a good understanding of someone’s thoughts and feelings but I will try and explain as best I can. The past year of my life has been extremely hard, some days I can’t stop crying – I’m not looking for sympathy, just trying to build a bigger picture. My anxiety over my sexual orientation (this time around) was triggered just less than a year ago after reading about a man who came out as gay to his wife and children after many years of marriage. I’d questioned my sexuality in the past but always believed that if you were gay you would know; reading this story triggered the HOCD I’ve been struggling with ever since. I’m in my early twenties and have been in a wonderful relationship with my boyfriend for over three years. I love him so much and the thought of being apart from him makes me extremely distressed. I had never been with anyone else prior to this relationship, and was always scared about the prospect of sex. My anxiety around sex began with a fear of any sexual touching and once I overcame this, it became a fear of pain. Consequently, I always found sex painful, and at the time I began to question my sexuality. About 6 months into our relationship I started to loose interest in sex completely (this could be related to some issues we had in our relationship around that time). My sex drive has never really returned, and now, in the throes of OCD, it has completely disappeared. I’ve never completely enjoyed sex as I’ve always found myself unable to let go, due to fear of pain, fear that I’m not enjoying myself enough or fear that I’m a lesbian. For the past couple of years I’ve become more attracted to women and less attracted to men. I’m defining attracted here as spend more time looking at and am more interested in looking at. In terms of desire, on the occasional day when my anxiety is not so bad, I find myself longing for men, not women. I’ve never had a crush on a woman and feel no desire for them. However my feelings for men have all but disappeared. I prefer to look at women’s bodies to men’s and I prefer lesbian porn to straight porn (I know these facts alone are not indicative of sexual preference). I’ve written little of HOCD here but this is getting far too long. I experience many of the HOCD symptoms you have written about and have suffered from anxiety and, I believe, other forms of OCD for many years. How do you think I should proceed? I’m currently on the waiting list for anxiety counselling but would like to ask for an OCD therapist. Since my lack of sex drive is a massive factor in my fears do you think I would be better to seek a psychosexual therapist? Or should I work on accepting myself and potentially homosexuality? Thank you so much for your time! Jonathan Hershfield July 25, 2013 at 4:00 am - Reply >>>Firstly I want to say your blogs are great, and thank you for writing them. –Thanks for the feedback! >>>I’m going to resist the temptation to seek reassurance (I know you wont give it anyway!) and instead ask you how you think I should move forward with regard to treatment, and getting on with life. I believe my situation is a little more complicated than others on here; I know it’s hard to get a good understanding of someone’s thoughts and feelings but I will try and explain as best I can. —I’ve always thought one of the symptoms of OCD the DSM should include is a sense of uniqueness and belief that their particular obsession is less treatable than others. It has to be unique; otherwise you wouldn’t bother to put the effort into compulsions. >>>The past year of my life has been extremely hard, some days I can’t stop crying – I’m not looking for sympathy, just trying to build a bigger picture. My anxiety over my sexual orientation (this time around) was triggered just less than a year ago after reading about a man who came out as gay to his wife and children after many years of marriage. I’d questioned my sexuality in the past but always believed that if you were gay you would know; reading this story triggered the HOCD I’ve been struggling with ever since. —Being triggered by stories of experiences that happen to OTHER people is common. >>>I’m in my early twenties and have been in a wonderful relationship with my boyfriend for over three years. I love him so much and the thought of being apart from him makes me extremely distressed. I had never been with anyone else prior to this relationship, and was always scared about the prospect of sex. My anxiety around sex began with a fear of any sexual touching and once I overcame this, it became a fear of pain. Consequently, I always found sex painful, and at the time I began to question my sexuality. About 6 months into our relationship I started to loose interest in sex completely (this could be related to some issues we had in our relationship around that time). My sex drive has never really returned, and now, in the throes of OCD, it has completely disappeared. I’ve never completely enjoyed sex as I’ve always found myself unable to let go, due to fear of pain, fear that I’m not enjoying myself enough or fear that I’m a lesbian. —Pain during sex is not uncommon for women and could have a variety of medical or psychological sources. I would ask a doctor about that. The resulting lack of interest in sex may be something to address either medically or psychologically, but in any case it is doubtful that it has anything to do with orientation. >>>For the past couple of years I’ve become more attracted to women and less attracted to men. I’m defining attracted here as spend more time looking at and am more interested in looking at. In terms of desire, on the occasional day when my anxiety is not so bad, I find myself longing for men, not women. I’ve never had a crush on a woman and feel no desire for them. However my feelings for men have all but disappeared. I prefer to look at women’s bodies to men’s and I prefer lesbian porn to straight porn (I know these facts alone are not indicative of sexual preference). —More to the point, survey the average heterosexual woman and no doubt the majority of them will tell you they prefer lesbian pornography. >>>I’ve written little of HOCD here but this is getting far too long. I experience many of the HOCD symptoms you have written about and have suffered from anxiety and, I believe, other forms of OCD for many years. How do you think I should proceed? I’m currently on the waiting list for anxiety counselling but would like to ask for an OCD therapist. Since my lack of sex drive is a massive factor in my fears do you think I would be better to seek a psychosexual therapist? Or should I work on accepting myself and potentially homosexuality? —I think there are two issues here. One is sexual dysfunction caused by pain during intercourse. This is not an unusual problem and is often treatable. I would speak to a medical doctor about this before speaking to a sex therapist. The other issue is the subsequent obsessive fear of being gay that is coming from the OCD. For that, it is essential that you see an ocd specialist. If there is not one locally, consider seeing someone online. CBT for HOCD includes accepting the possibility that your fears are true, but also involves confronting those fears. Dan July 24, 2013 at 9:37 am - Reply Hi, Firstly I want to say your blogs are great, and thank you for writing them. I’m going to resist the temptation to seek reassurance (I know you wont give it anyway!) and instead ask you how you think I should move forward with regard to treatment, and getting on with life. I believe my situation is a little more complicated than others on here; I know it’s hard to get a good understanding of someone’s thoughts and feelings but I will try and explain as best I can. The past year of my life has been extremely hard, some days I can’t stop crying – I’m not looking for sympathy, just trying to build a bigger picture. My anxiety over my sexual orientation (this time around) was triggered just less than a year ago after reading about a man who came out as gay to his wife and children after many years of marriage. I’d questioned my sexuality in the past but always believed that if you were gay you would know; reading this story triggered the HOCD I’ve been struggling with ever since. I’m in my early twenties and have been in a wonderful relationship with my boyfriend for over three years. I love him so much and the thought of being apart from him makes me extremely distressed. I had never been with anyone else prior to this relationship, and was always scared about the prospect of sex. My anxiety around sex began with a fear of any sexual touching and once I overcame this, it became a fear of pain. Consequently, I always found sex painful, and at the time I began to question my sexuality. About 6 months into our relationship I started to loose interest in sex completely (this could be related to some issues we had in our relationship around that time). My sex drive has never really returned, and now, in the throes of OCD, it has completely disappeared. I’ve never completely enjoyed sex as I’ve always found myself unable to let go, due to fear of pain, fear that I’m not enjoying myself enough or fear that I’m a lesbian. For the past couple of years I’ve become more attracted to women and less attracted to men. I’m defining attracted here as spend more time looking at and am more interested in looking at. In terms of desire, on the occasional day when my anxiety is not so bad, I find myself longing for men, not women. I’ve never had a crush on a woman and feel no desire for them. However my feelings for men have all but disappeared. I prefer to look at women’s bodies to men’s and I prefer lesbian porn to straight porn (I know these facts alone are not indicative of sexual preference). I’ve written little of HOCD here but this is getting far too long. I experience many of the HOCD symptoms you have written about and have suffered from anxiety and, I believe, other forms of OCD for many years. How do you think I should proceed? I’m currently on the waiting list for anxiety counselling but would like to ask for an OCD therapist. Since my lack of sex drive is a massive factor in my fears do you think I would be better to seek a psychosexual therapist? Or should I work on accepting myself and potentially homosexuality? Thank you so much for your time! Jonathan Hershfield July 25, 2013 at 4:00 am - Reply >>>Firstly I want to say your blogs are great, and thank you for writing them. –Thanks for the feedback! >>>I’m going to resist the temptation to seek reassurance (I know you wont give it anyway!) and instead ask you how you think I should move forward with regard to treatment, and getting on with life. I believe my situation is a little more complicated than others on here; I know it’s hard to get a good understanding of someone’s thoughts and feelings but I will try and explain as best I can. —I’ve always thought one of the symptoms of OCD the DSM should include is a sense of uniqueness and belief that their particular obsession is less treatable than others. It has to be unique; otherwise you wouldn’t bother to put the effort into compulsions. >>>The past year of my life has been extremely hard, some days I can’t stop crying – I’m not looking for sympathy, just trying to build a bigger picture. My anxiety over my sexual orientation (this time around) was triggered just less than a year ago after reading about a man who came out as gay to his wife and children after many years of marriage. I’d questioned my sexuality in the past but always believed that if you were gay you would know; reading this story triggered the HOCD I’ve been struggling with ever since. —Being triggered by stories of experiences that happen to OTHER people is common. >>>I’m in my early twenties and have been in a wonderful relationship with my boyfriend for over three years. I love him so much and the thought of being apart from him makes me extremely distressed. I had never been with anyone else prior to this relationship, and was always scared about the prospect of sex. My anxiety around sex began with a fear of any sexual touching and once I overcame this, it became a fear of pain. Consequently, I always found sex painful, and at the time I began to question my sexuality. About 6 months into our relationship I started to loose interest in sex completely (this could be related to some issues we had in our relationship around that time). My sex drive has never really returned, and now, in the throes of OCD, it has completely disappeared. I’ve never completely enjoyed sex as I’ve always found myself unable to let go, due to fear of pain, fear that I’m not enjoying myself enough or fear that I’m a lesbian. —Pain during sex is not uncommon for women and could have a variety of medical or psychological sources. I would ask a doctor about that. The resulting lack of interest in sex may be something to address either medically or psychologically, but in any case it is doubtful that it has anything to do with orientation. >>>For the past couple of years I’ve become more attracted to women and less attracted to men. I’m defining attracted here as spend more time looking at and am more interested in looking at. In terms of desire, on the occasional day when my anxiety is not so bad, I find myself longing for men, not women. I’ve never had a crush on a woman and feel no desire for them. However my feelings for men have all but disappeared. I prefer to look at women’s bodies to men’s and I prefer lesbian porn to straight porn (I know these facts alone are not indicative of sexual preference). —More to the point, survey the average heterosexual woman and no doubt the majority of them will tell you they prefer lesbian pornography. >>>I’ve written little of HOCD here but this is getting far too long. I experience many of the HOCD symptoms you have written about and have suffered from anxiety and, I believe, other forms of OCD for many years. How do you think I should proceed? I’m currently on the waiting list for anxiety counselling but would like to ask for an OCD therapist. Since my lack of sex drive is a massive factor in my fears do you think I would be better to seek a psychosexual therapist? Or should I work on accepting myself and potentially homosexuality? —I think there are two issues here. One is sexual dysfunction caused by pain during intercourse. This is not an unusual problem and is often treatable. I would speak to a medical doctor about this before speaking to a sex therapist. The other issue is the subsequent obsessive fear of being gay that is coming from the OCD. For that, it is essential that you see an ocd specialist. If there is not one locally, consider seeing someone online. CBT for HOCD includes accepting the possibility that your fears are true, but also involves confronting those fears. Jonathan Smith August 18, 2014 at 3:44 pm - Reply Dr. Hershfield, My name is Jonathan Smith. I write to you in a very depressed and anxious state. I am a 23 year old male, and I have suffered from HOCD for roughly half of my life. I recently had some particularly troubling mental experiences, and after reading your posts on HOCD, I decided to create an email address to seek some advice from you. I would like to thank you for the work you have done on this subject and the people you have helped through your efforts. I see you are very responsive in the comments on your articles. It would mean the world to me if you are able to respond to this message. With my disorder, I am at the lowest point I’ve ever been. I need help. Thank you so much for your time and thoughts, I greatly appreciate it. Please share my story with others if it could help ease their pain in any way. I apologize for the length of this message. I will describe my situation in detail. I have never sought or obtained professional help for my disorder. I have never confided the details of my disorder in another person- in person or anonymously. My mental illness has and continues to be a significant detriment to the quality of my life and my ability to feel joy, accomplishment, and enjoy the things I love. This is tragic because in many respects I am an extremely fortunate individual, with a loving family and girlfriend, and many opportunities available to me to achieve anything I want. But my disorder makes me feel like I’m not myself anymore, and I need to address it seriously so I can enjoy my life and be the best grandson, son, and boyfriend I can be while my loved ones are still alive. Several of them have serious health issues. I feel my disorder began when I was about ten years old. A kid at school called me “gay” in third grade. Despite the fact that I had shown interest in girls before kindergarten, and was clearly straight even then, what the kid said troubled me. I started to engage in ritualistic behavior. For example, “If I make two out of three free throws, I’m not gay”. In retrospect, I can tell how irrational this was. But as I aged, it got worse. When I was 11, I can’t remember having any symptoms at all. But at age 12, I would have unwanted thoughts of my male friends naked. They wouldn’t go away. I became so depressed, that even today, I look back on it as a clearly dark time in my life. I began to do things I normally wouldn’t, and I think it was just to check if I was heterosexual. And then for a while, I was okay. I got a pretty girlfriend in 8th grade, and my anxieties disappeared. But when the school year was almost over, she dumped me. All of the thoughts came back, but worse. Now I forced myself to prove I wasn’t homosexual by imagining performing sexual acts with males and making sure I didn’t like it. From what I’ve read, it does seem that emotional stress caused by loss of a girlfriend, etc. can cause this. Somehow, I managed to stay nearly symptom free for nearly 5 years after I recovered from that. My high school years were spent chasing girls, without a doubt in my mind about my heterosexuality. And then I let myself fall into the worst mental state of my life. At 18, I found the girl I thought I would marry. It seemed so real, even though I feel so naïve when I look back on it. She broke up with me after 4 months, and my whole world turned upside down. After weeks of almost intolerable sadness, I had an HOCD “spike”- and I can nearly guarantee it was a response to my loss. I saw a dude and thought “he’s good looking, I must be gay”. And I haven’t been right since. Sure, I’ve had my ups and downs. But overall, I consider these last four years a slump in which I’m afraid I’ll never get out of. I would constantly monitor my physical reactions to homosexual imagery in my head. Time after time, I would be afraid a “gay” thought aroused me. But now I know about the groinal response, and that I wasn’t feeling arousal at all during those times. But I let my OCD trick me into checking, and performing hours of rituals. I am so ashamed to say that I have literally wasted days of my life. So many people have sacrificed to give me the best life possible, and I’ve thrown too much of it away. But all of the fears seemed so real. I would stand in front of the mirror naked, think about homosexual sex, make sure it didn’t make my penis aroused, and then I’d think of sexual acts with women and make sure that it did. This has happened over and over for the last four years, although I can tell that engaging in the rituals has clearly hurt my sex drive and that I would be able to become more erect if I didn’t first force myself to envision gay sex before I thought about sex with women. Last year, I finally found the best girlfriend imaginable and had probably the best summer of my life. But when we started to have problems, my symptoms became more intense again. I had finally gotten to the point that I wouldn’t allow myself to perform the compulsions I mentioned above. But I started to slip, and by last winter, it was bad again. I am still with my girlfriend, I fought through the bad mental state I was in, and I literally almost had it beat. I know compulsive checking reinforces the OCD and makes it worse, but I tried to use rational thinking. After years of checking to make sure homosexuality didn’t arouse me, I felt I finally had the “unattainable proof” of my heterosexuality. Not once had I been aroused by the gay thoughts. Although maybe not a scientific test, I figured that was as good of evidence as any that I was straight. When those “I must be gay, I must want to do gay things” spikes hit, I stopped believing them, even though they always seem real at first. Because after years and years of following through with those thoughts, and coming to the conclusion that they repulse me every time, combined with all of my knowledge of the tricks and traps OCD plays, I felt like I was strong enough to actually live my life and not be consumed by fear. But then it happened yesterday. I don’t know how. I let myself give in and perform a compulsion. I set a timer, forced myself to close my eyes, and envision sex with a male friend. I spent equal time envisioning sex with a male and a female, and made sure that my penis was in its smallest state after thinking about gay sex, and at least slightly larger (somewhat aroused) after thinking about sex with a female. Which becomes difficult, because the anxiety of the situation makes it challenging to get aroused at all. Everything was playing out fine though. But after envisioning (I’m sorry for the graphic nature of what I’m about to say) stroking my friend’s penis from behind, I think my penis was slightly longer and larger at the base. I don’t know if this means I got aroused by a gay thought or what. When I looked in the mirror and saw that, I was shocked and in disbelief. I felt like my future was grim and bleak. And I still do. But last night, I felt much better after I thought about a few things. I noticed my penis tends to fluctuate in size, and get bigger and smaller, all on its own. When I just stared at it, without thinking of any sexual thought, it grew anyway. It sometimes grows even if I’m just standing there. Additionally, I forced myself to really focus on sex with my male friend after that shocking experience, and my penis shrank to its smallest state. And when I really forced myself to focus on a gay thought, it became painfully clear how repulsed I was with the behavior. I shuddered at the thought. When I imagined that it was actually happening, I almost couldn’t continue I was so disgusted. But I forced myself to, repeatedly, as OCD requires, to ensure that I was indeed turned off by the gay thoughts. After that, I honestly felt so relieved and thought it was all over. I thought I defeated the OCD for good. I thought about another friend, who is dying, and how I need to make the most of every day I have and how from here on out, I will be rational and strong. But I woke up this morning, and was worried again about my penis slightly growing after gay thoughts, thinking that it had to mean that they turned me on, and therefore I’m not as straight as I thought. I’m honestly making it sound worse than it even was, but this is where I really need your help. Does it really have to mean that I was aroused sexually by a gay thought? Or was it just a natural fluctuation in blood flow and size of my penis? When I really focused on the fact that the mental vision was with a male I became repulsed and my penis showed absolutely no signs of arousal whatsoever. Today, I also thought about that specific vision itself and had a different idea. The way I pictured the graphic image I described up above, could have been perceived by my body as me touching my own penis. If I simply think about touching my own penis, I become aroused. And although in my head, I was trying to force myself to conjure up and think a gay thought to make sure I wasn’t aroused by it, in truth, before I noticed a slight increase in size of my penis all that was visible in my head was a penis facing directly away from my body and in my hand. When I really focused in on the image of having ANOTHER man’s penis in my hand, I became so disturbed I could hardly stand it, and there were no signs of sexual arousal. I feel that a similar situation happened to me a couple years ago. I was thinking about a person’s butt, bent over in front of me and me engaging in intercourse, and I think I noticed a slight increase in the size of my penis. But once I really focused in on the fact that I was trying to envision a MALE’s rear end, my penis shrank again. Also, it almost seems like before my penis shrinks to its smallest state, it lengthens slightly and then retracts inward to its “shrinkage” position. Have you ever heard of that? Basically, in my compulsions, I would watch and see my penis grew when I thought of women, and shrank when I thought of men. I know that the compulsions are irrational, but do you think that I was really aroused by gay thoughts yesterday (it was nowhere near erect anyway) or do you think that I was just having an unrelated reaction? I feel like everything will be okay if I just know that I wasn’t aroused by a gay thought. I always took great pride in knowing I could deal with my OCD on my own. If I could just rationalize this one experience and know what the hell happened, I feel like I could beat this and live my life. I know I could, and I promise I would never let myself sink this low again. I don’t even think I’m in denial either- I would be forced to face it if I was aroused by men and there was no disputing it- but after all of my experiences and everything I know, I just don’t see how I could be turned on by a gay thought this one time and not in the hundreds of hours I’ve forced myself to think about gay sex before. This instance is killing me. I know I’m overanalyzing it and giving way too much weight to this one situation. Maybe the fact that I can’t stand this is proof in itself that I’m not bisexual/gay. I don’t know. Please give me your input. I feel like I can’t take this anymore, and it is having an extreme negative impact on my school and work performance. I want to be who I really am. The people that care about me deserve to have the real me back again. They can tell something is killing me inside but I won’t tell them any of this. Thank you again for your time. I want you to know that your help means everything to me. Jonathan Hershfield August 19, 2014 at 7:28 pm - Reply >>>>My name is Jonathan Smith. I write to you in a very depressed and anxious state. I am a 23 year old male, and I have suffered from HOCD for roughly half of my life. I recently had some particularly troubling mental experiences, and after reading your posts on HOCD, I decided to create an email address to seek some advice from you. I would like to thank you for the work you have done on this subject and the people you have helped through your efforts. I see you are very responsive in the comments on your articles. It would mean the world to me if you are able to respond to this message. —-Hi Jonathan, glad the articles have resonated with you. >>>With my disorder, I am at the lowest point I’ve ever been. I need help. Thank you so much for your time and thoughts, I greatly appreciate it. Please share my story with others if it could help ease their pain in any way. I apologize for the length of this message. —Usually when people say this, they are about to launch into a long compulsive confession. >>>>I will describe my situation in detail. I have never sought or obtained professional help for my disorder. I have never confided the details of my disorder in another person- in person or anonymously. My mental illness has and continues to be a significant detriment to the quality of my life and my ability to feel joy, accomplishment, and enjoy the things I love. This is tragic because in many respects I am an extremely fortunate individual, with a loving family and girlfriend, and many opportunities available to me to achieve anything I want. But my disorder makes me feel like I’m not myself anymore, and I need to address it seriously so I can enjoy my life and be the best grandson, son, and boyfriend I can be while my loved ones are still alive. Several of them have serious health issues. —These are very good reasons for you to get professional help for your OCD. >>>>I feel my disorder began when I was about ten years old. A kid at school called me “gay” in third grade. Despite the fact that I had shown interest in girls before kindergarten, and was clearly straight even then, what the kid said troubled me. I started to engage in ritualistic behavior. For example, “If I make two out of three free throws, I’m not gay”. In retrospect, I can tell how irrational this was. But as I aged, it got worse. When I was 11, I can’t remember having any symptoms at all. But at age 12, I would have unwanted thoughts of my male friends naked. They wouldn’t go away. I became so depressed, that even today, I look back on it as a clearly dark time in my life. I began to do things I normally wouldn’t, and I think it was just to check if I was heterosexual. —This mental ritual of “making bets” with yourself is very common, particularly in kids. It come sup a lot in religious scrupulosity too, like “if I make this basket, I won’t be in league with the devil.” >>>>And then for a while, I was okay. I got a pretty girlfriend in 8th grade, and my anxieties disappeared. But when the school year was almost over, she dumped me. All of the thoughts came back, but worse. Now I forced myself to prove I wasn’t homosexual by imagining performing sexual acts with males and making sure I didn’t like it. From what I’ve read, it does seem that emotional stress caused by loss of a girlfriend, etc. can cause this. —Well, stress certainly exacerbates OCD, but “cause” is a bit off. The issue is you made a decision to engage in a complex and voluntary compulsion (imaginary testing) and this creates pervasive doubt, which is really what gets you stuck in OC loop. >>>>Somehow, I managed to stay nearly symptom free for nearly 5 years after I recovered from that. My high school years were spent chasing girls, without a doubt in my mind about my heterosexuality. And then I let myself fall into the worst mental state of my life. At 18, I found the girl I thought I would marry. It seemed so real, even though I feel so naïve when I look back on it. She broke up with me after 4 months, and my whole world turned upside down. After weeks of almost intolerable sadness, I had an HOCD “spike”- and I can nearly guarantee it was a response to my loss. I saw a dude and thought “he’s good looking, I must be gay”. And I haven’t been right since. Sure, I’ve had my ups and downs. But overall, I consider these last four years a slump in which I’m afraid I’ll never get out of. —Where is the evidence that finding a dude “good looking” or having a thought “I must be gay” is in any way correlated with a person’s sexual orientation? >>>>I would constantly monitor my physical reactions to homosexual imagery in my head. Time after time, I would be afraid a “gay” thought aroused me. But now I know about the groinal response, and that I wasn’t feeling arousal at all during those times. But I let my OCD trick me into checking, and performing hours of rituals. I am so ashamed to say that I have literally wasted days of my life. So many people have sacrificed to give me the best life possible, and I’ve thrown too much of it away. But all of the fears seemed so real. I would stand in front of the mirror naked, think about homosexual sex, make sure it didn’t make my penis aroused, —Where is the evidence that being aroused by sexual thoughts outside your historic orientation correlates with a threat to your historic orientation? >>>>and then I’d think of sexual acts with women and make sure that it did. This has happened over and over for the last four years, although I can tell that engaging in the rituals has clearly hurt my sex drive and that I would be able to become more erect if I didn’t first force myself to envision gay sex before I thought about sex with women. —yes, it is a very damaging and disruptive ritual. >>>>Last year, I finally found the best girlfriend imaginable and had probably the best summer of my life. But when we started to have problems, my symptoms became more intense again. I had finally gotten to the point that I wouldn’t allow myself to perform the compulsions I mentioned above. But I started to slip, and by last winter, it was bad again. I am still with my girlfriend, I fought through the bad mental state I was in, and I literally almost had it beat. I know compulsive checking reinforces the OCD and makes it worse, but I tried to use rational thinking. After years of checking to make sure homosexuality didn’t arouse me, I felt I finally had the “unattainable proof” of my heterosexuality. —Not possible. For you, me, or anyone else. >>>>Not once had I been aroused by the gay thoughts. Although maybe not a scientific test, I figured that was as good of evidence as any that I was straight. When those “I must be gay, I must want to do gay things” spikes hit, I stopped believing them, even though they always seem real at first. Because after years and years of following through with those thoughts, and coming to the conclusion that they repulse me every time, combined with all of my knowledge of the tricks and traps OCD plays, I felt like I was strong enough to actually live my life and not be consumed by fear. —Again, this notion that being heterosexual has something to do with being repulsed by homosexuality is a myth. >>>>But then it happened yesterday. I don’t know how. I let myself give in and perform a compulsion. I set a timer, forced myself to close my eyes, and envision sex with a male friend. I spent equal time envisioning sex with a male and a female, and made sure that my penis was in its smallest state after thinking about gay sex, and at least slightly larger (somewhat aroused) after thinking about sex with a female. Which becomes difficult, because the anxiety of the situation makes it challenging to get aroused at all. Everything was playing out fine though. But after envisioning (I’m sorry for the graphic nature of what I’m about to say) stroking my friend’s penis from behind, I think my penis was slightly longer and larger at the base. I don’t know if this means I got aroused by a gay thought or what. When I looked in the mirror and saw that, I was shocked and in disbelief. I felt like my future was grim and bleak. And I still do. But last night, I felt much better after I thought about a few things. I noticed my penis tends to fluctuate in size, and get bigger and smaller, all on its own. When I just stared at it, without thinking of any sexual thought, it grew anyway. It sometimes grows even if I’m just standing there. Additionally, I forced myself to really focus on sex with my male friend after that shocking experience, and my penis shrank to its smallest state. And when I really forced myself to focus on a gay thought, it became painfully clear how repulsed I was with the behavior. I shuddered at the thought. When I imagined that it was actually happening, I almost couldn’t continue I was so disgusted. But I forced myself to, repeatedly, as OCD requires, to ensure that I was indeed turned off by the gay thoughts. After that, I honestly felt so relieved and thought it was all over. I thought I defeated the OCD for good. —It’s not clear why you are doing any of this if you know you have OCD and ou know compulsions are the problem, not the solution. I thought about another friend, who is dying, and how I need to make the most of every day I have and how from here on out, I will be rational and strong. But I woke up this morning, and was worried again about my penis slightly growing after gay thoughts, thinking that it had to mean that they turned me on, and therefore I’m not as straight as I thought. —This concept hinges on three assumptions for which you have no evidence: that the presence of arousal is an indicator of orientation, that it is possible to calculate a percentage of one’s orientation on a spectrum, and that any such calculation would be stable or constant. I’m not saying these things are true or untrue, just that they are assumptions driving your demand for certainty and fueling your OCD. >>>>I’m honestly making it sound worse than it even was, but this is where I really need your help. Does it really have to mean that I was aroused sexually by a gay thought? Or was it just a natural fluctuation in blood flow and size of my penis? When I really focused on the fact that the mental vision was with a male I became repulsed and my penis showed absolutely no signs of arousal whatsoever. Today, I also thought about that specific vision itself and had a different idea. The way I pictured the graphic image I described up above, could have been perceived by my body as me touching my own penis. If I simply think about touching my own penis, I become aroused. And although in my head, I was trying to force myself to conjure up and think a gay thought to make sure I wasn’t aroused by it, in truth, before I noticed a slight increase in size of my penis all that was visible in my head was a penis facing directly away from my body and in my hand. When I really focused in on the image of having ANOTHER man’s penis in my hand, I became so disturbed I could hardly stand it, and there were no signs of sexual arousal. —If you want to improve your condition of OCD, you have to stop doing compulsions. Much of your post simply describes compulsions, mixed with questions about the results derived from those compulsions. >>>I feel that a similar situation happened to me a couple years ago. I was thinking about a person’s butt, bent over in front of me and me engaging in intercourse, and I think I noticed a slight increase in the size of my penis. But once I really focused in on the fact that I was trying to envision a MALE’s rear end, my penis shrank again. Also, it almost seems like before my penis shrinks to its smallest state, it lengthens slightly and then retracts inward to its “shrinkage” position. Have you ever heard of that? Basically, in my compulsions, I would watch and see my penis grew when I thought of women, and shrank when I thought of men. I know that the compulsions are irrational, but do you think that I was really aroused by gay thoughts yesterday (it was nowhere near erect anyway) or do you think that I was just having an unrelated reaction? I feel like everything will be okay if I just know that I wasn’t aroused by a gay thought. I always took great pride in knowing I could deal with my OCD on my own. If I could just rationalize this one experience and know what the hell happened, I feel like I could beat this and live my life. I know I could, and I promise I would never let myself sink this low again. —You say you can “deal with” your OCD on your own, then say you do it with rationalizations, which are compulsions, which are symptoms of your disorder. >>>I don’t even think I’m in denial either- I would be forced to face it if I was aroused by men and there was no disputing it- but after all of my experiences and everything I know, I just don’t see how I could be turned on by a gay thought this one time and not in the hundreds of hours I’ve forced myself to think about gay sex before. This instance is killing me. I know I’m overanalyzing it and giving way too much weight to this one situation. Maybe the fact that I can’t stand this is proof in itself that I’m not bisexual/gay. I don’t know. Please give me your input. I feel like I can’t take this anymore, and it is having an extreme negative impact on my school and work performance. I want to be who I really am. The people that care about me deserve to have the real me back again. They can tell something is killing me inside but I won’t tell them any of this. Thank you again for your time. I want you to know that your help means everything to me. —Your situation is very similar to that of someone afraid of germs who has been able to navigate around contaminants by doing a lot of analysis about how likely a person is to get sick if they touch this or that. Now you are stuck believing that finding the right kind of soap will finally make it so that you never have to worry about germs at all. It’s a trap. What you should be doing is insisting on living in a world where you can touch things and accepting that there is uncertainty about what will or won’t get you sick. In other words, instead of trying to improve your rituals in the hopes of getting certainty, it makes more sense to actually try treating your obsessive compulsive disorder. This would mean engaging in CBT, doing exposures, resisting ritualized behaviors aimed at attaining certainty, and accepting the presence of thoughts and feelings you may or may not particularly enjoy at any given moment. Ideally this would be done with the help of an ocd specialist in therapy, but if that is not feasible, you could at least work with a self-help workbook. Sounds like you have a lot of meaningful things in your life that you value. One thing is certain, which is that if you continue to use the same compulsive strategies, your ocd will continue to worsen and it will strip away each thing of value from your life one at a time. Stop fighting with your penis and fight you ocd instead. Elena July 25, 2013 at 10:27 pm - Reply Do you have articles on POCD, as that is what Is haunting me … Jonathan Hershfield July 26, 2013 at 10:21 pm - Reply Hi Elena. unfortunately I have not gotten around to writing about POCD (pedophile obsessions) though I plan to. There’s is some good material on the subject in the books Freedom From Obsessive Compulsive Disorder by Jonathan Grayson and Imp of the Mind by Lee Baer. You might also be interested in the discussion board http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/pure_o_ocd/ where the subject gets brought up regularly. Elena July 25, 2013 at 10:27 pm - Reply Do you have articles on POCD, as that is what Is haunting me … Jonathan Hershfield July 26, 2013 at 10:21 pm - Reply Hi Elena. unfortunately I have not gotten around to writing about POCD (pedophile obsessions) though I plan to. There’s is some good material on the subject in the books Freedom From Obsessive Compulsive Disorder by Jonathan Grayson and Imp of the Mind by Lee Baer. You might also be interested in the discussion board http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/pure_o_ocd/ where the subject gets brought up regularly. Dave July 28, 2013 at 1:02 pm - Reply I get a slight erection and feeling down there when seeing a guy in a photo or if something spikey catches me off guard. Other times its tingling, blood flow to testicles, other times it feels very intense and scary like my body is raping me- gettign aroused by something I definitely dont want to. Also sometimes during sex with my girlfriend I sometimes get a gay thought and this actually makes me ejaculate almost immediately. This is very scary and I wonder if this proves I’m gay? Jonathan Hershfield July 29, 2013 at 1:44 am - Reply Dave, to answer this question I would have to presume that there is some thing that automatically “proves” someone is gay. I can’t imagine why that would be true. In any case, having a taboo thought or a fearful or activating thought during intercourse coinciding with orgasm is not an odd thing at all in my opinion. Dave July 28, 2013 at 1:02 pm - Reply I get a slight erection and feeling down there when seeing a guy in a photo or if something spikey catches me off guard. Other times its tingling, blood flow to testicles, other times it feels very intense and scary like my body is raping me- gettign aroused by something I definitely dont want to. Also sometimes during sex with my girlfriend I sometimes get a gay thought and this actually makes me ejaculate almost immediately. This is very scary and I wonder if this proves I’m gay? Jonathan Hershfield July 29, 2013 at 1:44 am - Reply Dave, to answer this question I would have to presume that there is some thing that automatically “proves” someone is gay. I can’t imagine why that would be true. In any case, having a taboo thought or a fearful or activating thought during intercourse coinciding with orgasm is not an odd thing at all in my opinion. Bob August 6, 2013 at 8:33 pm - Reply Hi John, I really appreciate the excellent information provided. I unfortunately went to gay porn to prove I would not get aroused as an erp tactic only to miserably fail and create a worsening of symptoms. I never went to gay porn before I was dx with ocd, however falsely assumed this test would solve my dilemma. I am concerned that I got certain sexual gay thoughts after experiencing sexual arousal during gay porn erp that I did not want to get. I know that sexual thoughts can stimulate sexual arousal no matter the content, but can sexual arousal stimulate sexual thoughts? I didn’t like that I got the thoughts either and I guess I fear that bc I got the arousal, then the thoughts, then that this means gay or I am just in denial/closeted? Jonathan Hershfield August 7, 2013 at 4:48 am - Reply >>>Hi John, I really appreciate the excellent information provided. I unfortunately went to gay porn to prove I would not get aroused as an erp tactic only to miserably fail and create a worsening of symptoms. I never went to gay porn before I was dx with ocd, however falsely assumed this test would solve my dilemma. —This is a contradiction of terms. If you were doing ERP, you cannot also be doing testing. That’s why it didn’t work. Exposure with Response Prevention by definition means being in front of something triggering without ritualizing or seeking reassurance. >>>I am concerned that I got certain sexual gay thoughts after experiencing sexual arousal during gay porn erp that I did not want to get. I know that sexual thoughts can stimulate sexual arousal no matter the content, but can sexual arousal stimulate sexual thoughts? I didn’t like that I got the thoughts either and I guess I fear that bc I got the arousal, then the thoughts, then that this means gay or I am just in denial/closeted? —Next time you want to do ERP, approach it from the perspective that you want the thoughts to occur and you want to be able to have them without doing compulsions. It will make you very uncomfortable until it doesn’t. If you were in denial, you wouldn’t know it. Such is the term “denial”. You have to let go of trying to figure that out and accept the uncertainty if you want to overcome the OCD. Bob August 6, 2013 at 8:33 pm - Reply Hi John, I really appreciate the excellent information provided. I unfortunately went to gay porn to prove I would not get aroused as an erp tactic only to miserably fail and create a worsening of symptoms. I never went to gay porn before I was dx with ocd, however falsely assumed this test would solve my dilemma. I am concerned that I got certain sexual gay thoughts after experiencing sexual arousal during gay porn erp that I did not want to get. I know that sexual thoughts can stimulate sexual arousal no matter the content, but can sexual arousal stimulate sexual thoughts? I didn’t like that I got the thoughts either and I guess I fear that bc I got the arousal, then the thoughts, then that this means gay or I am just in denial/closeted? Jonathan Hershfield August 7, 2013 at 4:48 am - Reply >>>Hi John, I really appreciate the excellent information provided. I unfortunately went to gay porn to prove I would not get aroused as an erp tactic only to miserably fail and create a worsening of symptoms. I never went to gay porn before I was dx with ocd, however falsely assumed this test would solve my dilemma. —This is a contradiction of terms. If you were doing ERP, you cannot also be doing testing. That’s why it didn’t work. Exposure with Response Prevention by definition means being in front of something triggering without ritualizing or seeking reassurance. >>>I am concerned that I got certain sexual gay thoughts after experiencing sexual arousal during gay porn erp that I did not want to get. I know that sexual thoughts can stimulate sexual arousal no matter the content, but can sexual arousal stimulate sexual thoughts? I didn’t like that I got the thoughts either and I guess I fear that bc I got the arousal, then the thoughts, then that this means gay or I am just in denial/closeted? —Next time you want to do ERP, approach it from the perspective that you want the thoughts to occur and you want to be able to have them without doing compulsions. It will make you very uncomfortable until it doesn’t. If you were in denial, you wouldn’t know it. Such is the term “denial”. You have to let go of trying to figure that out and accept the uncertainty if you want to overcome the OCD. Justin August 7, 2013 at 6:11 am - Reply Hello Jon again. I few weeks ago you recommended me a book for strategies and again in just wondering if im on the right track. I guess how you recover is accepting the possibility that your worse fear may happen. For example One is scared of going into public restrooms for fear of eventually having gay sex with dudes in there… But the key is to have the mindset that if you end up having gay sex with dudes in public restrooms then so be it…. You have to go out in public restrooms. So I keep reading that you have to keep saying maybe I’m gay? Maybe I won’t find girls attractive anymore? Which is my worst fear but it’s not the end of the world. So if I have a gay thought in my mind should I just say maybe I’m gay? And move on. Because I find that I’m feeling more free accepting uncertainty. And if I have a gay thought around a dude such as kissing him? I’ve tried saying hey why not? He’s not a bad looking guy. And guess what? I’m not doing anything gay and I’m still attracted to women and look at women. So is this what the recovery is? Am I on the right track? Cause I do not feel anxiety from gay thoughts. I just accept and say maybe I’ll end up gay one day… I’ll learn to cope with it. And I move on. But in constantly having to tell myself that a lot everyday. It helps to physically say it to myself. Maybe I am gay? But im constantly saying it. Or is this a compulsion and should I just let go? Either way on the outside I’m still completely straight. Accepting possibilities is how all of us live? I heard when you have a gay thought always agree with it or you’ll sink. Is that the best mindset? Cause I’m noticing if you accept a gay thought and accept you just might end up gay one day… You don’t start being gay. It just doesn’t happen. Again just making sure I am on right track by accept I could be gay who knows? Rather than saying in 110% straight. Less finding certainty you’re straight, more accepting uncertainty you might not be. In the end I love girls… I know that. They make the world go round. But dammit if beating Hocd means accepting I might turn gay one day and not like girls then so be it. Jonathan Hershfield August 7, 2013 at 10:55 pm - Reply Justin, I think overall you are definitely on the right track. Accepting that something “might be true” because you had a thought about it is really the only sane approach because proving it can’t be true doesn’t work. Accepting that something is possible doesn’t mean accepting that it is probably or worth any real attention. It is possible that by the time you read this, I will have died. It would be hardly worth the effort to try to track me down. I think you may be edging a little too close to compulsive reassurance if you are repeatedly vocalizing “maybe I’m gay” and associating that with relief. If you can accept the uncertainty and redirect your attention to something real, that would be better. As in, “ok, I noticed that guy has a good body and maybe that means I’m gay, now did I want a medium or large order of fries with my burger?” Justin August 7, 2013 at 6:11 am - Reply Hello Jon again. I few weeks ago you recommended me a book for strategies and again in just wondering if im on the right track. I guess how you recover is accepting the possibility that your worse fear may happen. For example One is scared of going into public restrooms for fear of eventually having gay sex with dudes in there… But the key is to have the mindset that if you end up having gay sex with dudes in public restrooms then so be it…. You have to go out in public restrooms. So I keep reading that you have to keep saying maybe I’m gay? Maybe I won’t find girls attractive anymore? Which is my worst fear but it’s not the end of the world. So if I have a gay thought in my mind should I just say maybe I’m gay? And move on. Because I find that I’m feeling more free accepting uncertainty. And if I have a gay thought around a dude such as kissing him? I’ve tried saying hey why not? He’s not a bad looking guy. And guess what? I’m not doing anything gay and I’m still attracted to women and look at women. So is this what the recovery is? Am I on the right track? Cause I do not feel anxiety from gay thoughts. I just accept and say maybe I’ll end up gay one day… I’ll learn to cope with it. And I move on. But in constantly having to tell myself that a lot everyday. It helps to physically say it to myself. Maybe I am gay? But im constantly saying it. Or is this a compulsion and should I just let go? Either way on the outside I’m still completely straight. Accepting possibilities is how all of us live? I heard when you have a gay thought always agree with it or you’ll sink. Is that the best mindset? Cause I’m noticing if you accept a gay thought and accept you just might end up gay one day… You don’t start being gay. It just doesn’t happen. Again just making sure I am on right track by accept I could be gay who knows? Rather than saying in 110% straight. Less finding certainty you’re straight, more accepting uncertainty you might not be. In the end I love girls… I know that. They make the world go round. But dammit if beating Hocd means accepting I might turn gay one day and not like girls then so be it. Jonathan Hershfield August 7, 2013 at 10:55 pm - Reply Justin, I think overall you are definitely on the right track. Accepting that something “might be true” because you had a thought about it is really the only sane approach because proving it can’t be true doesn’t work. Accepting that something is possible doesn’t mean accepting that it is probably or worth any real attention. It is possible that by the time you read this, I will have died. It would be hardly worth the effort to try to track me down. I think you may be edging a little too close to compulsive reassurance if you are repeatedly vocalizing “maybe I’m gay” and associating that with relief. If you can accept the uncertainty and redirect your attention to something real, that would be better. As in, “ok, I noticed that guy has a good body and maybe that means I’m gay, now did I want a medium or large order of fries with my burger?” Justin August 8, 2013 at 4:24 am - Reply That’s what I thought too. Vocalize a phrase would be a compulsion. It is easier said than done rolling with feelings and just simply doing nothing. But with time and practice I look forward to living completely with uncertainty but also being free. Jonathan Hershfield August 8, 2013 at 5:38 pm - Reply Brilliant. Justin August 8, 2013 at 4:24 am - Reply That’s what I thought too. Vocalize a phrase would be a compulsion. It is easier said than done rolling with feelings and just simply doing nothing. But with time and practice I look forward to living completely with uncertainty but also being free. Jonathan Hershfield August 8, 2013 at 5:38 pm - Reply Brilliant. Justin August 8, 2013 at 5:28 am - Reply The comment you made in the other article where you look at a picture of Hugh Jackman and you like it really touches home. That’s where this all started for me. I liked to look at pictures of Matt Damon or Brad Pitt or whoever because they’re the ladies men…. And they’re awesome. I wanted to be like them until one day the thought came in while looking at a picture of some good looking guy and it hit me…. Is this gay? Does this mean Im gay? One thought totally took over my life. But I’m glad to see that it’s normal for someone who is straight to like to look at good looking people of the same sex….. Not in a sexual manner. But like you say in those moments you think “do I want to look like him? Be like him? Or want him? I don’t know but Hugh Jackman is awesome.” that clears a lot up and makes total sense. Jonathan Hershfield August 8, 2013 at 5:38 pm - Reply Glad that was helpful. I also may have a thing for Tom Hardy after seeing Batman. Maybe I’m a closeted superhero. Justin August 8, 2013 at 5:28 am - Reply The comment you made in the other article where you look at a picture of Hugh Jackman and you like it really touches home. That’s where this all started for me. I liked to look at pictures of Matt Damon or Brad Pitt or whoever because they’re the ladies men…. And they’re awesome. I wanted to be like them until one day the thought came in while looking at a picture of some good looking guy and it hit me…. Is this gay? Does this mean Im gay? One thought totally took over my life. But I’m glad to see that it’s normal for someone who is straight to like to look at good looking people of the same sex….. Not in a sexual manner. But like you say in those moments you think “do I want to look like him? Be like him? Or want him? I don’t know but Hugh Jackman is awesome.” that clears a lot up and makes total sense. Jonathan Hershfield August 8, 2013 at 5:38 pm - Reply Glad that was helpful. I also may have a thing for Tom Hardy after seeing Batman. Maybe I’m a closeted superhero. Jo-Ann August 11, 2013 at 10:04 pm - Reply Excellent article. :o) Jo-Ann August 11, 2013 at 10:04 pm - Reply Excellent article. :o) Justin August 16, 2013 at 5:34 am - Reply Hello Jon. Came to say doing better every day. Each day keeps getting more awesome and I am at ease. I’ve been doing my own erp and of course it’s very uncomfortable at first but now when i watch or listen to anything homosexual it’s just a person… Not gay not straight… Just a person. And it’s quite amusing now actually doing erp….. Listening to Ricky Martin, watching broke back mountain, and occasionally dressing up as a princess fairy when no one is looking. Just kidding about the dressing up as a fairy but I do know Ricky martins music sucks, and broke back mountain (I swore I’d never watch this, ugh) is eh alright, itd be better if I was gay… Or maybe I really am. Lol but the point is I can honestly say to myself “Yep. I could do that. I could be gay.” but right now I’m crazy about my girlfriend and she is awesome. And even if I was full blown Elton John, I’d still choose her. Because in the end and it’s the key to this, it is your choice who to be with. You can be gay and still live straight. And I was terrified of having a gay thought meant never liking girls again. Which is seriously nonsense because now that I am getting better accepting I might be gay for some strange reason girls are getting hotter and hotter. Being possibly gay is awesome lol. There was a couple times I felt strange feelings and I thought “oh no. I think I am gay! Like for real gay!” then I take a deep breath and go “yep Im probably gay now… It’s not the end of the world. In still choosing a wife and a family because that’s what I want. And if I choose a dude one day, im sure I’ll be cool with it when it happens.” woke up the next day and I realized girls got hotter. It’s weird. What sucks is the OCD which is a constant battle. But every day gets better and although I’m not completely free, I was one of the worst of the worst with this OCD and I can say as far down in the hole you are, you can always climb your way back out. Takes time though. Good articles. Jonathan Hershfield August 16, 2013 at 2:31 pm - Reply What a great post, Justin! Your approach is dead on and clearly producing results! People are always asking me for success stories and I often miss out on them because people doing well don’t seem to want to talk to me anymore! Ha! I agree about Brokeback Mountain. Let’s be honest. It’s decent and would be even better if I were gay. Just like all 80s music. Be careful over-attending to the relative hotness of women so it doesn’t become a checking compulsion. Yes, it’s a constant battle now, but if you stick to your commitment of accepting uncertainty and pursuing that which matters to you anyway, the battle shifts to the background and then becomes so quiet, it’s indistinguishable from not even happening. Justin August 17, 2013 at 4:09 am - Reply Ha awesome. 80s music does have its ups and downs. Ricky Martin is getting old… I think it’s time to move on to something a bit gayer. Im thinking Village People or Wham. Maybe both. Lol I understand what you are saying with over-attending hotness with women. I find it difficult to sometimes to notice what some of my compulsions are. When I see an attractive female I’m expecting it to feel amazing… So when it doesn’t, anxiety starts to creep in but I punched it away quick. And now that I think about it a hot girl, before this OCD strike, was just a hot girl to me. She’s hot but like you said I wasn’t fully erected or jumping with joy on the inside. Everything was natural. It felt right and OCD is searching for the right feelings. But now Im just not caring and im doing much better. What’s interesting is I was one of those people who got completely out of it for months but fell all the way back down because I relied on certainty to pull me out. Obviously it didn’t fly when I had a thought of kissing one of my friends. But now it’s getting clearer. OCD is so simple to beat but it’s such a dick. I know my exact strategy and unfortunately it doesn’t get better in a day. It takes months and months depending how much you’re struggling. It can be very aggravating and depressing because when you are deep down in the hole with the right strategy trying to get out it’s tough and it’s feels like its not working. but if you tough it out it’s alright. I’m glad my post can be of help. It is hard to find success stories. And most can be hard to understand. Just out of curiousity you said this is a very common type of OCD, so it’s realistic to say me and everyone on this blog run into people every day with the same problem they are just not as vocal? It is a tough obsession. Feels like youre the only one on the planet with this problem. I have yet to find a story where someone has completely gone through this and ended up married and just absolutely in peace and free from HOCD. The topic of being gay goes right in and out of the brain without any problem. I’m sure it happens all the time but still looking… Justin August 17, 2013 at 4:29 am - Reply Another question Jon. Do you have OCD yourself? I’m hoping you say yes I do… I just know how to kick it’s ass. Lol And do most OCD specialists have OCD themselves? I would think probably. Im sure you’re thinking obviously. But I just don’t know for sure and I’m curious. You might’ve actually said you have it already but I can’t remember. Lol Henry October 1, 2013 at 8:12 pm - Reply Hey, Justin, I was just wondering what your erp is. They say you should start with material that you’re least afraid of and slowly increase it until you’re essentially watching gay porn. I would like to do my own erp because affording a specialist is kind of out of my budget at the moment. Just wondering what worked for you. Justin August 16, 2013 at 5:34 am - Reply Hello Jon. Came to say doing better every day. Each day keeps getting more awesome and I am at ease. I’ve been doing my own erp and of course it’s very uncomfortable at first but now when i watch or listen to anything homosexual it’s just a person… Not gay not straight… Just a person. And it’s quite amusing now actually doing erp….. Listening to Ricky Martin, watching broke back mountain, and occasionally dressing up as a princess fairy when no one is looking. Just kidding about the dressing up as a fairy but I do know Ricky martins music sucks, and broke back mountain (I swore I’d never watch this, ugh) is eh alright, itd be better if I was gay… Or maybe I really am. Lol but the point is I can honestly say to myself “Yep. I could do that. I could be gay.” but right now I’m crazy about my girlfriend and she is awesome. And even if I was full blown Elton John, I’d still choose her. Because in the end and it’s the key to this, it is your choice who to be with. You can be gay and still live straight. And I was terrified of having a gay thought meant never liking girls again. Which is seriously nonsense because now that I am getting better accepting I might be gay for some strange reason girls are getting hotter and hotter. Being possibly gay is awesome lol. There was a couple times I felt strange feelings and I thought “oh no. I think I am gay! Like for real gay!” then I take a deep breath and go “yep Im probably gay now… It’s not the end of the world. In still choosing a wife and a family because that’s what I want. And if I choose a dude one day, im sure I’ll be cool with it when it happens.” woke up the next day and I realized girls got hotter. It’s weird. What sucks is the OCD which is a constant battle. But every day gets better and although I’m not completely free, I was one of the worst of the worst with this OCD and I can say as far down in the hole you are, you can always climb your way back out. Takes time though. Good articles. Jonathan Hershfield August 16, 2013 at 2:31 pm - Reply What a great post, Justin! Your approach is dead on and clearly producing results! People are always asking me for success stories and I often miss out on them because people doing well don’t seem to want to talk to me anymore! Ha! I agree about Brokeback Mountain. Let’s be honest. It’s decent and would be even better if I were gay. Just like all 80s music. Be careful over-attending to the relative hotness of women so it doesn’t become a checking compulsion. Yes, it’s a constant battle now, but if you stick to your commitment of accepting uncertainty and pursuing that which matters to you anyway, the battle shifts to the background and then becomes so quiet, it’s indistinguishable from not even happening. Justin August 17, 2013 at 4:09 am - Reply Ha awesome. 80s music does have its ups and downs. Ricky Martin is getting old… I think it’s time to move on to something a bit gayer. Im thinking Village People or Wham. Maybe both. Lol I understand what you are saying with over-attending hotness with women. I find it difficult to sometimes to notice what some of my compulsions are. When I see an attractive female I’m expecting it to feel amazing… So when it doesn’t, anxiety starts to creep in but I punched it away quick. And now that I think about it a hot girl, before this OCD strike, was just a hot girl to me. She’s hot but like you said I wasn’t fully erected or jumping with joy on the inside. Everything was natural. It felt right and OCD is searching for the right feelings. But now Im just not caring and im doing much better. What’s interesting is I was one of those people who got completely out of it for months but fell all the way back down because I relied on certainty to pull me out. Obviously it didn’t fly when I had a thought of kissing one of my friends. But now it’s getting clearer. OCD is so simple to beat but it’s such a dick. I know my exact strategy and unfortunately it doesn’t get better in a day. It takes months and months depending how much you’re struggling. It can be very aggravating and depressing because when you are deep down in the hole with the right strategy trying to get out it’s tough and it’s feels like its not working. but if you tough it out it’s alright. I’m glad my post can be of help. It is hard to find success stories. And most can be hard to understand. Just out of curiousity you said this is a very common type of OCD, so it’s realistic to say me and everyone on this blog run into people every day with the same problem they are just not as vocal? It is a tough obsession. Feels like youre the only one on the planet with this problem. I have yet to find a story where someone has completely gone through this and ended up married and just absolutely in peace and free from HOCD. The topic of being gay goes right in and out of the brain without any problem. I’m sure it happens all the time but still looking… Justin August 17, 2013 at 4:29 am - Reply Another question Jon. Do you have OCD yourself? I’m hoping you say yes I do… I just know how to kick it’s ass. Lol And do most OCD specialists have OCD themselves? I would think probably. Im sure you’re thinking obviously. But I just don’t know for sure and I’m curious. You might’ve actually said you have it already but I can’t remember. Lol Henry October 1, 2013 at 8:12 pm - Reply Hey, Justin, I was just wondering what your erp is. They say you should start with material that you’re least afraid of and slowly increase it until you’re essentially watching gay porn. I would like to do my own erp because affording a specialist is kind of out of my budget at the moment. Just wondering what worked for you. Mary August 24, 2013 at 4:36 am - Reply Hi Jon, I really appreciate your article. It sheds a light of hope. I have been having this doubt and fear for ever since I can remember. When I was 6 or 8 I was sexually molested by a female cousin of my same age. This traumatized me for life because I remember feeling pleasure at that time, even though I didn’t know what I was doing. Until I told my mom and she said that was wrong and I shouldn’t let her do that to me. I grew up with that at the back of my mind always. Fearing that some day that would come out. I have never liked women or felt any attraction towards them. All my crushed growing up were boys. And I always had long relationships with my boyfriends. Now I recently got married to the love of my life. But before, shortly after he proposed I had a nightmare where he said I was a lesbian. Ever since this doubt and fear has been eating me inside. What if I become a lesbian later in our marriage and then have to leave him and my family? I start examining and determining each moment from my past to figure out evidence that supports where I am a lesbian or not. I get extremely anxious and depressed when my mind wins on getting more evidence that I am truly a lesbian but don’t know it yet. I love my husband more than life itself. I’ve tried looking for a good therapist here (Miami) but no luck plus I am very embarrassed and afraid of what they might say. What if I become a lesbian one day? I couldn’t live with my self. Please help me!!! I can’t enjoy life anymore because I’m always thinking that its all a lie and that all I do is to cover up my true self.:( but I want to be the straight, wife, in love with her husband that my other little voice inside me says I am. How can I tell when my true self is talking and when it’s OCD? Help!!! Jonathan Hershfield August 24, 2013 at 3:41 pm - Reply Hi Mary, I can’t diagnose you from a blog comment, but what you describe sounds like a pretty straightforward case of HOCD to me. Many people have same-sex experiences as children, both pleasurable and unpleasurable, and this is unrelated to the issue of sexual orientation. You describe a lot of compulsive behavior trying to make yourself feel certain that some unwanted (and dare I say, unlikely!) event will occur in the unknown future. In treatment, you would want to work on exposure to the idea that your fears could come true and your failure to do compulsions will somehow be the reason. As a general idea though, you need to remember that all “what-if” questions are ocd traps. The obvious answer to any “what-if” question is “I’ll deal with it.” When you are obsessing, your thoughts get distorted to a point that you begin believing you couldn’t deal with it. This means that even though it’s less likely to happen than being attacked by a shark in your apartment, you will still feel compelled to avoid and ritualize. I’m not sure who’s in Miami, but there are some excellent ocd therapists in Florida (Bruce Hyman and Steve Seay come to mind). You might contact one of them and see if they can do online therapy with you. Or perhaps you can find someone in Miami from the therapist list at http://www.ocfoundation.org. You should get cbt and do the work. You deserve to be present in what sounds like a very happy marriage. Mary August 24, 2013 at 4:36 am - Reply Hi Jon, I really appreciate your article. It sheds a light of hope. I have been having this doubt and fear for ever since I can remember. When I was 6 or 8 I was sexually molested by a female cousin of my same age. This traumatized me for life because I remember feeling pleasure at that time, even though I didn’t know what I was doing. Until I told my mom and she said that was wrong and I shouldn’t let her do that to me. I grew up with that at the back of my mind always. Fearing that some day that would come out. I have never liked women or felt any attraction towards them. All my crushed growing up were boys. And I always had long relationships with my boyfriends. Now I recently got married to the love of my life. But before, shortly after he proposed I had a nightmare where he said I was a lesbian. Ever since this doubt and fear has been eating me inside. What if I become a lesbian later in our marriage and then have to leave him and my family? I start examining and determining each moment from my past to figure out evidence that supports where I am a lesbian or not. I get extremely anxious and depressed when my mind wins on getting more evidence that I am truly a lesbian but don’t know it yet. I love my husband more than life itself. I’ve tried looking for a good therapist here (Miami) but no luck plus I am very embarrassed and afraid of what they might say. What if I become a lesbian one day? I couldn’t live with my self. Please help me!!! I can’t enjoy life anymore because I’m always thinking that its all a lie and that all I do is to cover up my true self.:( but I want to be the straight, wife, in love with her husband that my other little voice inside me says I am. How can I tell when my true self is talking and when it’s OCD? Help!!! Jonathan Hershfield August 24, 2013 at 3:41 pm - Reply Hi Mary, I can’t diagnose you from a blog comment, but what you describe sounds like a pretty straightforward case of HOCD to me. Many people have same-sex experiences as children, both pleasurable and unpleasurable, and this is unrelated to the issue of sexual orientation. You describe a lot of compulsive behavior trying to make yourself feel certain that some unwanted (and dare I say, unlikely!) event will occur in the unknown future. In treatment, you would want to work on exposure to the idea that your fears could come true and your failure to do compulsions will somehow be the reason. As a general idea though, you need to remember that all “what-if” questions are ocd traps. The obvious answer to any “what-if” question is “I’ll deal with it.” When you are obsessing, your thoughts get distorted to a point that you begin believing you couldn’t deal with it. This means that even though it’s less likely to happen than being attacked by a shark in your apartment, you will still feel compelled to avoid and ritualize. I’m not sure who’s in Miami, but there are some excellent ocd therapists in Florida (Bruce Hyman and Steve Seay come to mind). You might contact one of them and see if they can do online therapy with you. Or perhaps you can find someone in Miami from the therapist list at http://www.ocfoundation.org. You should get cbt and do the work. You deserve to be present in what sounds like a very happy marriage. Felipe August 5, 2014 at 10:11 pm - Reply For the first time I read someone describe exactly what happened to me, because like you, I distinguish myself from other cases of HOCD because I was abused as a child and also had a similar reaction from my mother when I told her. Scared of everything just be my head I keep making excuses for repressing my true self. Justin September 1, 2013 at 6:12 am - Reply Hello Jon. Life is awesome. Literally having no problems at all. Each day more and more I’m forgetting that I was ever terrified of being gay. I always knew the answer…. Accept I may be…. It was crippling to accept that but I feel free. Everyone should know if you can accept that, you will be completely free. OCD can’t take away your power to choose, and I’ve said this before…. If you want to be straight. Be straight. Having homosexual desires doesn’t mean you have to drop everything and be gay. I’ve realized Im not even close to being gay. I have an awesome girlfriend who I’m crazy about. Don’t think of men at all. It grosses me out. But…. If it didn’t and I wanted a big strong male lover (lol) I guess id be cool with it. There’s worse things to fear. It amuses me because it’s no big deal. I know people with this at their worst don’t have any room to breathe because they are terrified. And the thought of being gay isn’t funny it’s a nightmare… But accepting the fact i might be living a lie of thinking I’m straight and actually being totally gay has killed any reason to give this the time of day at all. It’s great. Why was this once so scary? Jonathan Hershfield September 2, 2013 at 12:42 am - Reply Justin, thank you for posting your success story! It was once so scary because you treated uncertainty as unacceptable, which is inherently terrifying. Justin September 1, 2013 at 6:12 am - Reply Hello Jon. Life is awesome. Literally having no problems at all. Each day more and more I’m forgetting that I was ever terrified of being gay. I always knew the answer…. Accept I may be…. It was crippling to accept that but I feel free. Everyone should know if you can accept that, you will be completely free. OCD can’t take away your power to choose, and I’ve said this before…. If you want to be straight. Be straight. Having homosexual desires doesn’t mean you have to drop everything and be gay. I’ve realized Im not even close to being gay. I have an awesome girlfriend who I’m crazy about. Don’t think of men at all. It grosses me out. But…. If it didn’t and I wanted a big strong male lover (lol) I guess id be cool with it. There’s worse things to fear. It amuses me because it’s no big deal. I know people with this at their worst don’t have any room to breathe because they are terrified. And the thought of being gay isn’t funny it’s a nightmare… But accepting the fact i might be living a lie of thinking I’m straight and actually being totally gay has killed any reason to give this the time of day at all. It’s great. Why was this once so scary? Jonathan Hershfield September 2, 2013 at 12:42 am - Reply Justin, thank you for posting your success story! It was once so scary because you treated uncertainty as unacceptable, which is inherently terrifying. Grace September 5, 2013 at 12:15 pm - Reply Hiya Jon! Thank you so much for posting these blogs, for years I really thought I was alone, but now I can see I’m really not, and there are people out there who understand. When I first came across your first article, I literally cried with happiness as I related to almost all of the symptoms and compulsions! I first got this OCD when I was a teenager and me and my bf at the time were watching porn together, and there happened to be lesbians on there. I then ended up watching lesbian porn alone after, and even looked on a dating site at lesbian woman, to see if they could turn me on, I felt jealous of them as it must be easier to be gay the straight, as being hurt by men is awful.. (my bf had cheated on me twice before this.) Anyway, I had one doubting thought about what I was doing and how it would come across if anyone knew. I had a bit if a panic about it, and talked to my mum, but after the panic had gone, I felt fine and didn’t want to peruse anything at all, but I just couldn’t drop the worry about why I did these things, and it has clung to me ever since. Since I began to try and deal with this, as appose to just making it worse through worrying about it, I have come quite far, and have been able to tackle aspects of the OCD quite well myself, and its a lot easier to live with now. I do however still struggle with the whole heterosexual woman liking lesbian porn/thoughts etc. I can orgasm easily from lesbian thoughts, (I don’t watch any porn or anything) but I don’t enjoy it as much as when I am just enjoying being with my bf, as the closeness and intimacy with him makes me really happy. I do defiantly think that the lesbian orgasms occur when I am in an anxious mood and are due to over focusing on sensations, and the fact that, as you said in response to a previous comment, most heterosexual woman can actually do this. I just find myself feeling really bad if I do think about woman in any context during sex, as this must mean something. I would really like your advice about this, as I see as being the last hurdle, the thing stopping me from giving it my all and being able to be me again. I can accept the rest of it is OCD, but this one just seems harder to get my head around. Should I just accept that its a normal hetrosexual thing? I find that really hard, as if I try this, and allow them in and maybe orgasm from them, afterwards I will obsess about it meaning I must be gay/bi, and I feel really rubbish and find myself back doing obsessive thinking checking etc… Help! I really hope you get back to me, and thank you again so so much for posting these! Has brought light into a very dark place xx Grace September 5, 2013 at 1:42 pm - Reply I feel really worried that me saying I looked on a dating website comes across wrong. I mean, I was already on a site from before my bf, and I just went on there to look at pictures as I didn’t have anything else to look at, I didn’t go on there to approach anyone about meeting up and that thought never entered my head. I also wanted to ask, I was going through a really tough time when this all happened, I had lost a very close family member, my bf cheating, and I was feeling really depressed. I think I liked anything that gave me some kind of rush, even if this was anxiety. Do you think this had anything to do with me not being able to let this go, and therefor getting OCD? Thanks again Grace Jonathan Hershfield September 5, 2013 at 5:59 pm - Reply I think this clarification post is a compulsion. It would be better for you to accept that I could get the wrong idea and that you may have to cope with the consequences of whatever that could be. Jonathan Hershfield September 5, 2013 at 5:58 pm - Reply Hiya Grace! Happy to hear the articles shed some light on your situation. I think the main issue you are struggling with has to do with a distorted belief about what homosexuality is. Homosexuality, as an orientation identification, is the pursuit of romantic and sexual intimacy with members of the same sex for the purpose of achieving a preferred connection with another human being in that way. It is not gay fantasy, gay porn, or simply the ability to get turned on by gay ideas or experiences. A heterosexual woman enjoying lesbian pornographic fantasy makes her no more gay than me enjoying horror movies makes me a serial killer. Your OCD trap is that you buy in to guilt feelings that come from some old place inside you after you acknowledge that taboo fantasy is genuinely enjoyable. To beat this, there are two strategies I would recommend. First, truly embrace and accept the uncertainty. Though you clearly identify as straight, accept that up may be down and left may be right and somehow in some weird way there is a possibility that you are gay. This is not accepting that there is a likelihood or probability, just that life has no guarantees and trying to get them is a waste of time. Second, do exposure to truly owning and enjoying gay fantasies. It’s not just that it’s normal for heterosexual women to have lesbian fantasies — it should be responded to as something that is exciting, not threatening. The guilt, checking, and analysis that occurs afterward is a product of your ocd, just an urge to get certainty about your obsession, and does not need to be engaged in. Grace September 5, 2013 at 6:19 pm - Reply Hiya Jon, Thank you so much for getting back to me. I agree that the second comment was a compulsion, I think I knew this when writing it, I should have just acknowledged this, and not carried it out. I also agree with you saying I have distorted beliefs about homosexuality, I suppose I have never really thought about it in that way before, but now you say it, I understand what I have been doing, and I feel I can move on. I will definitely take on board what your saying., and thank you again for your reply. Grace September 5, 2013 at 12:15 pm - Reply Hiya Jon! Thank you so much for posting these blogs, for years I really thought I was alone, but now I can see I’m really not, and there are people out there who understand. When I first came across your first article, I literally cried with happiness as I related to almost all of the symptoms and compulsions! I first got this OCD when I was a teenager and me and my bf at the time were watching porn together, and there happened to be lesbians on there. I then ended up watching lesbian porn alone after, and even looked on a dating site at lesbian woman, to see if they could turn me on, I felt jealous of them as it must be easier to be gay the straight, as being hurt by men is awful.. (my bf had cheated on me twice before this.) Anyway, I had one doubting thought about what I was doing and how it would come across if anyone knew. I had a bit if a panic about it, and talked to my mum, but after the panic had gone, I felt fine and didn’t want to peruse anything at all, but I just couldn’t drop the worry about why I did these things, and it has clung to me ever since. Since I began to try and deal with this, as appose to just making it worse through worrying about it, I have come quite far, and have been able to tackle aspects of the OCD quite well myself, and its a lot easier to live with now. I do however still struggle with the whole heterosexual woman liking lesbian porn/thoughts etc. I can orgasm easily from lesbian thoughts, (I don’t watch any porn or anything) but I don’t enjoy it as much as when I am just enjoying being with my bf, as the closeness and intimacy with him makes me really happy. I do defiantly think that the lesbian orgasms occur when I am in an anxious mood and are due to over focusing on sensations, and the fact that, as you said in response to a previous comment, most heterosexual woman can actually do this. I just find myself feeling really bad if I do think about woman in any context during sex, as this must mean something. I would really like your advice about this, as I see as being the last hurdle, the thing stopping me from giving it my all and being able to be me again. I can accept the rest of it is OCD, but this one just seems harder to get my head around. Should I just accept that its a normal hetrosexual thing? I find that really hard, as if I try this, and allow them in and maybe orgasm from them, afterwards I will obsess about it meaning I must be gay/bi, and I feel really rubbish and find myself back doing obsessive thinking checking etc… Help! I really hope you get back to me, and thank you again so so much for posting these! Has brought light into a very dark place xx Grace September 5, 2013 at 1:42 pm - Reply I feel really worried that me saying I looked on a dating website comes across wrong. I mean, I was already on a site from before my bf, and I just went on there to look at pictures as I didn’t have anything else to look at, I didn’t go on there to approach anyone about meeting up and that thought never entered my head. I also wanted to ask, I was going through a really tough time when this all happened, I had lost a very close family member, my bf cheating, and I was feeling really depressed. I think I liked anything that gave me some kind of rush, even if this was anxiety. Do you think this had anything to do with me not being able to let this go, and therefor getting OCD? Thanks again Grace Jonathan Hershfield September 5, 2013 at 5:59 pm - Reply I think this clarification post is a compulsion. It would be better for you to accept that I could get the wrong idea and that you may have to cope with the consequences of whatever that could be. Jonathan Hershfield September 5, 2013 at 5:58 pm - Reply Hiya Grace! Happy to hear the articles shed some light on your situation. I think the main issue you are struggling with has to do with a distorted belief about what homosexuality is. Homosexuality, as an orientation identification, is the pursuit of romantic and sexual intimacy with members of the same sex for the purpose of achieving a preferred connection with another human being in that way. It is not gay fantasy, gay porn, or simply the ability to get turned on by gay ideas or experiences. A heterosexual woman enjoying lesbian pornographic fantasy makes her no more gay than me enjoying horror movies makes me a serial killer. Your OCD trap is that you buy in to guilt feelings that come from some old place inside you after you acknowledge that taboo fantasy is genuinely enjoyable. To beat this, there are two strategies I would recommend. First, truly embrace and accept the uncertainty. Though you clearly identify as straight, accept that up may be down and left may be right and somehow in some weird way there is a possibility that you are gay. This is not accepting that there is a likelihood or probability, just that life has no guarantees and trying to get them is a waste of time. Second, do exposure to truly owning and enjoying gay fantasies. It’s not just that it’s normal for heterosexual women to have lesbian fantasies — it should be responded to as something that is exciting, not threatening. The guilt, checking, and analysis that occurs afterward is a product of your ocd, just an urge to get certainty about your obsession, and does not need to be engaged in. Grace September 5, 2013 at 6:19 pm - Reply Hiya Jon, Thank you so much for getting back to me. I agree that the second comment was a compulsion, I think I knew this when writing it, I should have just acknowledged this, and not carried it out. I also agree with you saying I have distorted beliefs about homosexuality, I suppose I have never really thought about it in that way before, but now you say it, I understand what I have been doing, and I feel I can move on. I will definitely take on board what your saying., and thank you again for your reply. Cristiano September 9, 2013 at 8:25 am - Reply Could you please tackle POCD? Now that HOCD is out of the way I fear thinking that I might be a pedophile. I know I’m not one. I’ve never had any inclination in that regard and have none now. But, I keep worrying that one when I hold my baby I might get an erection every time and my wife (I’m unmarried now) will think I am a pedophile. Someone’s wife reported this on an online forum and I’ve been worrying ever since. I’m also scared of interacting with children who are not family because people might judge me and think that I am a pedophile. My friend also expressed his concern that his brother-in-law might be one because of the way his brother looks at children. That made me worry, do I look at children the same way? Do I have pedophilic tendencies that I don’t know of? I know that I’m not a pedophile just like I know I’m not gay. I confronted HOCD head on, but I’m so scared of confronting POCD because it’s just downright evil and I don’t want to fill my mind with such things. How do I begin to confront this? It’s not taking over my thought life as much as HOCD did, but it is there. Jonathan Hershfield September 9, 2013 at 8:42 pm - Reply This is a common obsession and you might find some good reading material on it in the books Freedom from OCD by Jonathan Grayson and Imp of the Mind by Lee Baer. You describe a lot of commonly reported concerns with POCD. If you feel you had some success addressing your HOCD, it would benefit you to look at how this obsession is similar, not different. It is a fear that you are somehow wired to engage in sexual behavior that you don’t identify with or approve of internally. By engaging in compulsions (i.e. avoiding interactions with children, analyzing future scenarios in which you could be accused of bad behavior, etc), you are strengthening your obsession. I will probably write some blogs on POCD eventually, but it’s doubtful I will say much about it that you couldn’t figure out from reading what has been written about other obsessions. Cristiano January 20, 2014 at 12:11 pm - Reply Thank you. I will get those books. Cristiano September 9, 2013 at 8:25 am - Reply Could you please tackle POCD? Now that HOCD is out of the way I fear thinking that I might be a pedophile. I know I’m not one. I’ve never had any inclination in that regard and have none now. But, I keep worrying that one when I hold my baby I might get an erection every time and my wife (I’m unmarried now) will think I am a pedophile. Someone’s wife reported this on an online forum and I’ve been worrying ever since. I’m also scared of interacting with children who are not family because people might judge me and think that I am a pedophile. My friend also expressed his concern that his brother-in-law might be one because of the way his brother looks at children. That made me worry, do I look at children the same way? Do I have pedophilic tendencies that I don’t know of? I know that I’m not a pedophile just like I know I’m not gay. I confronted HOCD head on, but I’m so scared of confronting POCD because it’s just downright evil and I don’t want to fill my mind with such things. How do I begin to confront this? It’s not taking over my thought life as much as HOCD did, but it is there. Jonathan Hershfield September 9, 2013 at 8:42 pm - Reply This is a common obsession and you might find some good reading material on it in the books Freedom from OCD by Jonathan Grayson and Imp of the Mind by Lee Baer. You describe a lot of commonly reported concerns with POCD. If you feel you had some success addressing your HOCD, it would benefit you to look at how this obsession is similar, not different. It is a fear that you are somehow wired to engage in sexual behavior that you don’t identify with or approve of internally. By engaging in compulsions (i.e. avoiding interactions with children, analyzing future scenarios in which you could be accused of bad behavior, etc), you are strengthening your obsession. I will probably write some blogs on POCD eventually, but it’s doubtful I will say much about it that you couldn’t figure out from reading what has been written about other obsessions. Cristiano January 20, 2014 at 12:11 pm - Reply Thank you. I will get those books. Rock September 10, 2013 at 4:30 am - Reply Hey, I’ve been struggling with POCD for about a week now. One of my biggest concerns is the groin response. I haven’t been able to enjoy images of mature, sexy men since this started. What happens is that i test myself and then i get the response. I feel a little bit horny after a while, but I don’t think it’s the images of kids/teen boys that are causing the horniness, just the fact that I’m fixating on sexual topics in my mind in the first place. Seems to go along with “The presence of all sexual thoughts, whether preferred or not, trigger groinal responses by their very nature of being sexual thoughts” I usually try and masturbate to an erotic story in my phone, involving the kind of men i like, not kids or young teens. I’ve never been specifically interested in those groups and i don’t want to. I don’t want to think that the thoughts about kids/teen boys is what is initially making me horny and that i’m just fooling myself by “finishing off” with something i accept. What’s going on? Jonathan Hershfield September 11, 2013 at 12:45 am - Reply It sounds like you already know that the testing behavior is a compulsion, so my recommendation is that you stop doing it. If the presence of these sexual thoughts happens on it own (as opposed to you generating it for the purpose of testing), then you have to accept that those are the thoughts going through your head. This doesn’t make them important or meaningful. Since it is not possible to know the precise cause of arousal, or the significance of the material you use to finish masturbating, it can only be a compulsion to try to find out. Instead you need to accept that the uncertainty makes you uncomfortable and resist efforts to resolve it. Enjoy what you enjoy and accept that other material may at times occur to you and you won’t know for sure if or how much you enjoy it. You don’t get to choose what thoughts you have (including thoughts about fooling yourself) and attempts to suppress thoughts only make them more intrusive and distorted. Rock September 10, 2013 at 4:30 am - Reply Hey, I’ve been struggling with POCD for about a week now. One of my biggest concerns is the groin response. I haven’t been able to enjoy images of mature, sexy men since this started. What happens is that i test myself and then i get the response. I feel a little bit horny after a while, but I don’t think it’s the images of kids/teen boys that are causing the horniness, just the fact that I’m fixating on sexual topics in my mind in the first place. Seems to go along with “The presence of all sexual thoughts, whether preferred or not, trigger groinal responses by their very nature of being sexual thoughts” I usually try and masturbate to an erotic story in my phone, involving the kind of men i like, not kids or young teens. I’ve never been specifically interested in those groups and i don’t want to. I don’t want to think that the thoughts about kids/teen boys is what is initially making me horny and that i’m just fooling myself by “finishing off” with something i accept. What’s going on? Jonathan Hershfield September 11, 2013 at 12:45 am - Reply It sounds like you already know that the testing behavior is a compulsion, so my recommendation is that you stop doing it. If the presence of these sexual thoughts happens on it own (as opposed to you generating it for the purpose of testing), then you have to accept that those are the thoughts going through your head. This doesn’t make them important or meaningful. Since it is not possible to know the precise cause of arousal, or the significance of the material you use to finish masturbating, it can only be a compulsion to try to find out. Instead you need to accept that the uncertainty makes you uncomfortable and resist efforts to resolve it. Enjoy what you enjoy and accept that other material may at times occur to you and you won’t know for sure if or how much you enjoy it. You don’t get to choose what thoughts you have (including thoughts about fooling yourself) and attempts to suppress thoughts only make them more intrusive and distorted. Chris September 19, 2013 at 2:55 pm - Reply Hello Jonathan, Hope you can help me with this. I recently experienced a case of an identity crisis related to my sexuality. It came about when I was sexually abused at the age of 13 by an older gentleman who was the best friend of my father. It was my first sexual encounter and I was terrified. It continued further when someone two years older than I was ‘convinced’ me to sexually experiment with him and I felt weak, insecure and not sure what I was doing. He managed to have more over me and he seemed to kill my self-esteem. I eventually stopped because I didn’t want to be part of it (I was 14 at the time) When I moved away to a different country, I said to myself I didn’t want this to happen to me ever again. My first crush was with a woman but I never had the guts nor the confidence to talk to her. I always vowed to find a woman and get married to her and live a simple and fulfilling life. I have also been a porn-addict thanks to the older gentlemen who introduced it to me. I didn’t have my first encounter with a woman until I was 18 when we had our first kiss, it felt very intimate and I felt I was on cloud 9. We broke up and I was devastated for three years After that, I waited until I was 23 to lose my virginity as I wanted to perform the act with someone on the same level as I was and eventually it happened and I felt happy and secure with the woman I performed the act with. Then afterwards I was involved in three relationships with women that were fulfilling emotionally, due to other circumstances I had to end these. I reached a stage after my most serious relationship (2 years) where I kept watching more and more porn different genres. It got to the point where I incorporated gay porn into the mix and started watching it as a means to make up for my lack of sex in real life. When I was recently rejected by a woman and after realizing I have been watching gay porn. I freaked out and went into anxiety mode, it is to the point where I am starting to notice men in real life attractive and all I want is sex. Things have calmed down a bit now, but I still have inner homophobia and the thought scares me. I have stopped watching all types of porn now for three weeks and things have improved. My mind plays tricks on me some days I feel fine with being ‘gay’ but then my mind tells that I am negating the other aspects of life and this is an easy ‘escape’ from the other problems I suffer, low self-esteem, anxiety, figuring out who I am as a person, etc. A therapist told it could be a relapse from you childhood and the fact that you haven’t dealt with this the proper way. Any suggestions or tips? Jonathan Hershfield September 20, 2013 at 4:57 pm - Reply Chris, thank you for sharing your story. Though there does not appear to be a clear OCD issue going on here, you are nonetheless anxious and obsessive about conceptualizing your sexuality. You were the victim of abuse as a child. Children cannot process these types of experiences the way adults do. In your adult life, the abuse is going to play some kind of role, which is going to affect, and be affected by, your experiences. Many people have had experiences similar to yours and it caused them confusion, lead to addictions, relationship issues, mood and self-esteem instability, and more. So the first thing you need to do is stop judging yourself for having the experience you are having and focus on what behaviors and strategies you can engage in which will likely bring about the best results. For example, you might wish to seek treatment for your porn addiction. You may wish to seek treatment for better understanding the role your childhood traumatic experiences are playing in your view of the self. Your anxiety wants you to focus primarily on the issue of your ability to enjoy gay porn and gay sexual fantasies and what this says about your “label” or orientation. This focus keeps the anxiety well fed, but probably isn’t the most important issue. From what you have written, a more important issue is that you have a genuine desire to be with women physically and emotionally, but an insecurity about being rejected and fear of not being accepted. This pushes you to seek avoidant behaviors (i.e. addiction behaviors) and spend a lot of time trying to figure yourself out so you can be perfect and whole and totally acceptable. This is a distraction from really confronting your fears and accepting yourself as being the way you are presently without judgment. I would recommend you stop trying to figure out if you are gay and accept that you are how you are sexually and get stimulated by whatever stimulates you. My suggestion is that you seek treatment from someone who really understands sexual abuse and healing those wounds in such away that leads to acceptance of self and the pursuit of healthy relationships. Chris September 19, 2013 at 2:55 pm - Reply Hello Jonathan, Hope you can help me with this. I recently experienced a case of an identity crisis related to my sexuality. It came about when I was sexually abused at the age of 13 by an older gentleman who was the best friend of my father. It was my first sexual encounter and I was terrified. It continued further when someone two years older than I was ‘convinced’ me to sexually experiment with him and I felt weak, insecure and not sure what I was doing. He managed to have more over me and he seemed to kill my self-esteem. I eventually stopped because I didn’t want to be part of it (I was 14 at the time) When I moved away to a different country, I said to myself I didn’t want this to happen to me ever again. My first crush was with a woman but I never had the guts nor the confidence to talk to her. I always vowed to find a woman and get married to her and live a simple and fulfilling life. I have also been a porn-addict thanks to the older gentlemen who introduced it to me. I didn’t have my first encounter with a woman until I was 18 when we had our first kiss, it felt very intimate and I felt I was on cloud 9. We broke up and I was devastated for three years After that, I waited until I was 23 to lose my virginity as I wanted to perform the act with someone on the same level as I was and eventually it happened and I felt happy and secure with the woman I performed the act with. Then afterwards I was involved in three relationships with women that were fulfilling emotionally, due to other circumstances I had to end these. I reached a stage after my most serious relationship (2 years) where I kept watching more and more porn different genres. It got to the point where I incorporated gay porn into the mix and started watching it as a means to make up for my lack of sex in real life. When I was recently rejected by a woman and after realizing I have been watching gay porn. I freaked out and went into anxiety mode, it is to the point where I am starting to notice men in real life attractive and all I want is sex. Things have calmed down a bit now, but I still have inner homophobia and the thought scares me. I have stopped watching all types of porn now for three weeks and things have improved. My mind plays tricks on me some days I feel fine with being ‘gay’ but then my mind tells that I am negating the other aspects of life and this is an easy ‘escape’ from the other problems I suffer, low self-esteem, anxiety, figuring out who I am as a person, etc. A therapist told it could be a relapse from you childhood and the fact that you haven’t dealt with this the proper way. Any suggestions or tips? Jonathan Hershfield September 20, 2013 at 4:57 pm - Reply Chris, thank you for sharing your story. Though there does not appear to be a clear OCD issue going on here, you are nonetheless anxious and obsessive about conceptualizing your sexuality. You were the victim of abuse as a child. Children cannot process these types of experiences the way adults do. In your adult life, the abuse is going to play some kind of role, which is going to affect, and be affected by, your experiences. Many people have had experiences similar to yours and it caused them confusion, lead to addictions, relationship issues, mood and self-esteem instability, and more. So the first thing you need to do is stop judging yourself for having the experience you are having and focus on what behaviors and strategies you can engage in which will likely bring about the best results. For example, you might wish to seek treatment for your porn addiction. You may wish to seek treatment for better understanding the role your childhood traumatic experiences are playing in your view of the self. Your anxiety wants you to focus primarily on the issue of your ability to enjoy gay porn and gay sexual fantasies and what this says about your “label” or orientation. This focus keeps the anxiety well fed, but probably isn’t the most important issue. From what you have written, a more important issue is that you have a genuine desire to be with women physically and emotionally, but an insecurity about being rejected and fear of not being accepted. This pushes you to seek avoidant behaviors (i.e. addiction behaviors) and spend a lot of time trying to figure yourself out so you can be perfect and whole and totally acceptable. This is a distraction from really confronting your fears and accepting yourself as being the way you are presently without judgment. I would recommend you stop trying to figure out if you are gay and accept that you are how you are sexually and get stimulated by whatever stimulates you. My suggestion is that you seek treatment from someone who really understands sexual abuse and healing those wounds in such away that leads to acceptance of self and the pursuit of healthy relationships. Damian September 20, 2013 at 12:54 pm - Reply Hi Jonathan Hi Jonathan In first I want to appreciate your person for your willingness to help other people with OCD problem. You´re great man. I´m 30 years old male. I was obssesed with as a child. I was afraid of different military conflicts and wars. I was afraid of begenning of military conflict in our country while our country was always safe and I think about it during all days. I couldn´t get out these thoughts of my head for years. After certain time period these thoughts resolved. I´ve always been attracted women. Maximum sexual pleasure when I masturbate of women. I fell in love many times to women. I´ve never fallen in love to men. I don´t imagine it. When I was teenager (15-17) I had homosexual fantasies, strong erection and orgasm when I thought about boys at masturbation and I thought I was latent homosexual but when I was 18 my sexual arousal about boys started to weak and I finally realized that I was straight. My psychological problems started when I was 27. One day I browsed on internet and masturbated on porn video when suddenly one gay porn video appeared between straight videos. I clicked the gay video and there were two guys and had sex in some swimming pool. I got an erection. I asked myself: „Am I gay? How can I sure that I´m not? Immediately i remembered on my period of teenage, when I masturbated to boys. I subsequently got panic fear, huge fear, feeling adam´s apple in the neck, severe depression and sucidal toughts. I started to check my walk, my sitting on the chair, my voice and I was afraid of that I did these stuffs like a gay. I Watched for men and women on the street and analysed who of them were attracting me more. I started to realized that It´s some psychological disorder but I still didn´t know what is it? I´ve always liked women and they´ve excited me and suddenly I couldn´t get an erection when I masturbated to women. I was horrified, so depressed and I didn´t know to understand it. Finally I went to psychiatrist and talk about my problems and doctor said „ It´s fear of being gay“ but He didn´t know that It´s HOCD and how he should treat. Of course I got some medication (citalopram) and I still take meds. Everything I had to find out myself. I started to do CBT and ERP. I don´t have problem with watching gay porn and I´m not afraid of it but my problem still is when I watch on gay porn so I have slight erection, weak sexual arousal and I can have an orgasm when I masturbat long time but I feel that it´s not my own urge and the guilt, checking and analysis occurs afterwards and that´s my the biggest problem. What can I do? Do you think I should enjoy gay fantasies and do masturbate to men more often and accept it? Is it right way? Sorry for my English. Jonathan Hershfield September 20, 2013 at 6:23 pm - Reply Damian, thank you for your email. People should masturbate to things they enjoy masturbating to. Reasons to avoid masturbating to certain things include: -that thing inherently causes harm to other people or animals (i.e. child pornography, bestiality porn, etc) -that thing is messing with your head in a way that you do not enjoy (themes you may feel repeated viewing might harm you in some meaningful way… this would vary from person to person) -the purpose of that thing is to test yourself to see if you are capable of enjoying it in order to reassure yourself about an obsession The use of pornography can be effective as part of an ERP treatment program. But the key thing to remember is that you are trying to expose yourself to your fears and resist the urge to do compulsions. So exposure in the case you describe would not just be the viewing of the pornography, but in telling yourself that the stimulation you experience might mean something about your sexual orientation that scares you. Part of the ERP must include the resistance to analyze and check in order for it to be effective. Instead the focus should be on accepting the idea that your failure to analyze and check may have unwanted consequences. In short, do it if you like it and if you like it, own that you like it and don’t try to find meaning in it. Damian September 20, 2013 at 12:54 pm - Reply Hi Jonathan Hi Jonathan In first I want to appreciate your person for your willingness to help other people with OCD problem. You´re great man. I´m 30 years old male. I was obssesed with as a child. I was afraid of different military conflicts and wars. I was afraid of begenning of military conflict in our country while our country was always safe and I think about it during all days. I couldn´t get out these thoughts of my head for years. After certain time period these thoughts resolved. I´ve always been attracted women. Maximum sexual pleasure when I masturbate of women. I fell in love many times to women. I´ve never fallen in love to men. I don´t imagine it. When I was teenager (15-17) I had homosexual fantasies, strong erection and orgasm when I thought about boys at masturbation and I thought I was latent homosexual but when I was 18 my sexual arousal about boys started to weak and I finally realized that I was straight. My psychological problems started when I was 27. One day I browsed on internet and masturbated on porn video when suddenly one gay porn video appeared between straight videos. I clicked the gay video and there were two guys and had sex in some swimming pool. I got an erection. I asked myself: „Am I gay? How can I sure that I´m not? Immediately i remembered on my period of teenage, when I masturbated to boys. I subsequently got panic fear, huge fear, feeling adam´s apple in the neck, severe depression and sucidal toughts. I started to check my walk, my sitting on the chair, my voice and I was afraid of that I did these stuffs like a gay. I Watched for men and women on the street and analysed who of them were attracting me more. I started to realized that It´s some psychological disorder but I still didn´t know what is it? I´ve always liked women and they´ve excited me and suddenly I couldn´t get an erection when I masturbated to women. I was horrified, so depressed and I didn´t know to understand it. Finally I went to psychiatrist and talk about my problems and doctor said „ It´s fear of being gay“ but He didn´t know that It´s HOCD and how he should treat. Of course I got some medication (citalopram) and I still take meds. Everything I had to find out myself. I started to do CBT and ERP. I don´t have problem with watching gay porn and I´m not afraid of it but my problem still is when I watch on gay porn so I have slight erection, weak sexual arousal and I can have an orgasm when I masturbat long time but I feel that it´s not my own urge and the guilt, checking and analysis occurs afterwards and that´s my the biggest problem. What can I do? Do you think I should enjoy gay fantasies and do masturbate to men more often and accept it? Is it right way? Sorry for my English. Jonathan Hershfield September 20, 2013 at 6:23 pm - Reply Damian, thank you for your email. People should masturbate to things they enjoy masturbating to. Reasons to avoid masturbating to certain things include: -that thing inherently causes harm to other people or animals (i.e. child pornography, bestiality porn, etc) -that thing is messing with your head in a way that you do not enjoy (themes you may feel repeated viewing might harm you in some meaningful way… this would vary from person to person) -the purpose of that thing is to test yourself to see if you are capable of enjoying it in order to reassure yourself about an obsession The use of pornography can be effective as part of an ERP treatment program. But the key thing to remember is that you are trying to expose yourself to your fears and resist the urge to do compulsions. So exposure in the case you describe would not just be the viewing of the pornography, but in telling yourself that the stimulation you experience might mean something about your sexual orientation that scares you. Part of the ERP must include the resistance to analyze and check in order for it to be effective. Instead the focus should be on accepting the idea that your failure to analyze and check may have unwanted consequences. In short, do it if you like it and if you like it, own that you like it and don’t try to find meaning in it. Hannah September 20, 2013 at 7:22 pm - Reply Hi! Thank you so much for all you are doing for this community of people! Your blogs and comments have brought about a lot of relief! Unfortunately, the fears just keep coming back minutes or hours after that relief:/ here’s my story: I have struggled with obsessive thinking my whole life, as far back as I can remember. I used to obsess over things like being pregnant despite never having sex! Stuff that I know, looking back, was ridiculous but at the time felt so real. A few months ago, I was hanging out with my best friend. I love her with my whole heart, and she is everything I have ever wanted in a best friend. She takes such good care of me, and we call each other our soul mates. Despite that, I had still really wanted a boyfriend. Desperately. I had a huge crush on a guy, but it didn’t pan out. One day, however, I was hanging out with my best friend, cuddling watching a movie, and I suddenly felt really warm inside. Like that feeling you get deep in the pit of your stomach when you see your family, or even your pet, after an extended absence. I’m sure you can guess what happened next-the thought popped into my head “what if I’m gay? What if what I’m feeling for her is more than a friend?” And things just spiraled out of control. I couldn’t shake the thought that I might be gay. My mom told me the feelings were totally normal and that my friend fills an emotional need for me, and that’s totally ok. The next time I saw her was with a group of friends. Seeing her made me spike, but it quickly subsided as my friends and I began our days activities. For a month or so, I would doubt here or there, and question my heterosexuality, but nothing really ever too debilitating. I could easily brush it off. One day, however, she and I were hanging out, cuddling and chatting like I would do any of my girlfriends, and we were having a great time. I was just about to leave to go on a big trip by myself, and she was there to send me off. The thought popped into my head again that I might be gay, and All of the sudden out of nowhere I had this urge to kiss her. Needless to say, I panicked. I left on my trip, and for the next month or so I spent a lot of time by myself traveling and the like, but the whole time I was miserable, constantly obsessing that I must be gay because I wanted to kiss her. I started to doubt everything. I have been straight all my life, but I became paranoid that I must be gay. I started googling and researching to see if anyone felt the same way. Nothing helped. But i couldn’t stop. Thankfully one day I stumbled upon your blogs and have ready them many many times ( which I know you will say is unhealthy, but the momentary relief they provide me feels so nice). Everything you said about HOCD and all it’s symptoms fit me to a T! Men all of the sudden became unattractive and all I noticed were women. I was constantly looking at women, and if I thought they were pretty, I would panic. Guys I used to have crushes on suddenly didn’t excite me at all. I began picturing all of the times I had felt happy and warm around my best friend and convinced myself they were more than just happy feelings. I came back from my trip, after a month of obsessing, and now every time I see my friend I feel this mixture of happiness/warmth, but also insane anxiety, and a fear that I am experiencing groinal responses. I can’t even hug her without feeling anxiety, but it’s utterly confusing because I love hugging and cuddling her (as she does with me, and she is 100% straight), and feel warm around her, and I have convinced myself it must be because I’m gay. I genuinely miss her when I’m not with her, and love being around her. But, because of my anxieties lately, and me constantly checking to see if I’m aroused when she even brushes up against me, pats me on the back, or calls me one of her nicknames for me, it had caused me to distance myself from her. She is incredibly patient and understanding, but I fear our friendship will never be the same because of this. Is this HOCD? Is there hope I will come out of this? I have an appointment to meet with a therapist but should I find an OCD specialist? Again, thank you so much for what you do. You ease a lot of anxiety and it’s incredibly appreciated. Jonathan Hershfield September 21, 2013 at 1:11 am - Reply Hannah, glad the articles have been helpful and thanks for sharing your story. We love our friends. We have love feelings for our friends. We feel closeness, magnetism, and a desire for intimacy with our best friends. We have the most in common with them, we feel like they’e the only ons who get us, they are so important to us, and for this reason OCD targets them, tries to take them away from us, and says we want to have sex with them. It’s nonsense and it happens in HOCD all the time. When you start trying to prove you won’t and you try to suppress or neutralize the thoughts, you end up feeding the obsession, making the thoughts more intrusive. When you start avoiding your friend because they trigger you, the friend becomes a source of anxiety, and the OCD wins. So you have to decide whether you want to give up the friend for your OCD (what’s your OCD ever done for you?) or make effort to stay connected to your friend while accepting the presence of unwanted thoughts and feelings. If you choose the exposure route, you are likely to overcome the obsession. You asked about the importance of seeing an ocd specialist for ocd. I think it’s important because you need someone who can construct an ERP treatment plan for your obsession, but if your therapist knows a lot about cbt in general and you like them, maybe they can learn to do it. Hannah September 20, 2013 at 7:22 pm - Reply Hi! Thank you so much for all you are doing for this community of people! Your blogs and comments have brought about a lot of relief! Unfortunately, the fears just keep coming back minutes or hours after that relief:/ here’s my story: I have struggled with obsessive thinking my whole life, as far back as I can remember. I used to obsess over things like being pregnant despite never having sex! Stuff that I know, looking back, was ridiculous but at the time felt so real. A few months ago, I was hanging out with my best friend. I love her with my whole heart, and she is everything I have ever wanted in a best friend. She takes such good care of me, and we call each other our soul mates. Despite that, I had still really wanted a boyfriend. Desperately. I had a huge crush on a guy, but it didn’t pan out. One day, however, I was hanging out with my best friend, cuddling watching a movie, and I suddenly felt really warm inside. Like that feeling you get deep in the pit of your stomach when you see your family, or even your pet, after an extended absence. I’m sure you can guess what happened next-the thought popped into my head “what if I’m gay? What if what I’m feeling for her is more than a friend?” And things just spiraled out of control. I couldn’t shake the thought that I might be gay. My mom told me the feelings were totally normal and that my friend fills an emotional need for me, and that’s totally ok. The next time I saw her was with a group of friends. Seeing her made me spike, but it quickly subsided as my friends and I began our days activities. For a month or so, I would doubt here or there, and question my heterosexuality, but nothing really ever too debilitating. I could easily brush it off. One day, however, she and I were hanging out, cuddling and chatting like I would do any of my girlfriends, and we were having a great time. I was just about to leave to go on a big trip by myself, and she was there to send me off. The thought popped into my head again that I might be gay, and All of the sudden out of nowhere I had this urge to kiss her. Needless to say, I panicked. I left on my trip, and for the next month or so I spent a lot of time by myself traveling and the like, but the whole time I was miserable, constantly obsessing that I must be gay because I wanted to kiss her. I started to doubt everything. I have been straight all my life, but I became paranoid that I must be gay. I started googling and researching to see if anyone felt the same way. Nothing helped. But i couldn’t stop. Thankfully one day I stumbled upon your blogs and have ready them many many times ( which I know you will say is unhealthy, but the momentary relief they provide me feels so nice). Everything you said about HOCD and all it’s symptoms fit me to a T! Men all of the sudden became unattractive and all I noticed were women. I was constantly looking at women, and if I thought they were pretty, I would panic. Guys I used to have crushes on suddenly didn’t excite me at all. I began picturing all of the times I had felt happy and warm around my best friend and convinced myself they were more than just happy feelings. I came back from my trip, after a month of obsessing, and now every time I see my friend I feel this mixture of happiness/warmth, but also insane anxiety, and a fear that I am experiencing groinal responses. I can’t even hug her without feeling anxiety, but it’s utterly confusing because I love hugging and cuddling her (as she does with me, and she is 100% straight), and feel warm around her, and I have convinced myself it must be because I’m gay. I genuinely miss her when I’m not with her, and love being around her. But, because of my anxieties lately, and me constantly checking to see if I’m aroused when she even brushes up against me, pats me on the back, or calls me one of her nicknames for me, it had caused me to distance myself from her. She is incredibly patient and understanding, but I fear our friendship will never be the same because of this. Is this HOCD? Is there hope I will come out of this? I have an appointment to meet with a therapist but should I find an OCD specialist? Again, thank you so much for what you do. You ease a lot of anxiety and it’s incredibly appreciated. Jonathan Hershfield September 21, 2013 at 1:11 am - Reply Hannah, glad the articles have been helpful and thanks for sharing your story. We love our friends. We have love feelings for our friends. We feel closeness, magnetism, and a desire for intimacy with our best friends. We have the most in common with them, we feel like they’e the only ons who get us, they are so important to us, and for this reason OCD targets them, tries to take them away from us, and says we want to have sex with them. It’s nonsense and it happens in HOCD all the time. When you start trying to prove you won’t and you try to suppress or neutralize the thoughts, you end up feeding the obsession, making the thoughts more intrusive. When you start avoiding your friend because they trigger you, the friend becomes a source of anxiety, and the OCD wins. So you have to decide whether you want to give up the friend for your OCD (what’s your OCD ever done for you?) or make effort to stay connected to your friend while accepting the presence of unwanted thoughts and feelings. If you choose the exposure route, you are likely to overcome the obsession. You asked about the importance of seeing an ocd specialist for ocd. I think it’s important because you need someone who can construct an ERP treatment plan for your obsession, but if your therapist knows a lot about cbt in general and you like them, maybe they can learn to do it. Hannah September 20, 2013 at 7:25 pm - Reply Oh and also, a friend told me of a person she knew who was boy crazy her entire life, and then one day fell in love with a girl. I am freaked and paranoid out of my mind that that is what happened to me:( Jonathan Hershfield September 21, 2013 at 3:49 am - Reply What you are saying here is that you heard a story about a person. Being freaked and paranoid is a choice you are making in response to hearing about this story about a person. Hannah September 20, 2013 at 7:25 pm - Reply Oh and also, a friend told me of a person she knew who was boy crazy her entire life, and then one day fell in love with a girl. I am freaked and paranoid out of my mind that that is what happened to me:( Jonathan Hershfield September 21, 2013 at 3:49 am - Reply What you are saying here is that you heard a story about a person. Being freaked and paranoid is a choice you are making in response to hearing about this story about a person. Hannah September 20, 2013 at 7:31 pm - Reply A third comment( sorry): I have another friend who went through the exact same thing with the exact same symptoms. One day she had a thought she could be gay, She worried for over a year about it, and She pushed her best friend away because she was fearful her “friendship” feelings were more than that. That’s what I am fearful of. Now, that same friend is free if her obsession and even has a boyfriend. So that has greatly assured me, but I’m still anxious. 🙁 Jonathan Hershfield September 21, 2013 at 3:50 am - Reply Consider that the risk of doing all of your compulsions basically equates to abandoning people you care about. Hannah September 20, 2013 at 7:31 pm - Reply A third comment( sorry): I have another friend who went through the exact same thing with the exact same symptoms. One day she had a thought she could be gay, She worried for over a year about it, and She pushed her best friend away because she was fearful her “friendship” feelings were more than that. That’s what I am fearful of. Now, that same friend is free if her obsession and even has a boyfriend. So that has greatly assured me, but I’m still anxious. 🙁 Jonathan Hershfield September 21, 2013 at 3:50 am - Reply Consider that the risk of doing all of your compulsions basically equates to abandoning people you care about. Damian September 20, 2013 at 9:02 pm - Reply Thanks for answer Jonathan. Sorry but I have feel that we don´t understand each other. I like women and when I masturbate to women so that is the biggest pleasure for me. My erection is strong and I fell in love only with women. I didn´t feel anything to men When I masturbate to men – it is my urge. My erection is weak, my arousal is weak too. I try to masturbate to men and it is not my need if you understand me. When I started with ERP i remember I was very scary when I saw gay porn but next days the fear started to go down. I don´t understand your describe: So exposure in the case you describe would not just be the viewing of the pornography, but in telling yourself that the stimulation you experience might mean something about your sexual orientation that scares you. // Sorry my Englis is not very well and I can´t translate this part of your answer..Does it mean that you think I´m hidden homosexual? I´m very sorry if I bother you with my questions, but I need serious advice. Jonathan Hershfield September 20, 2013 at 11:59 pm - Reply OK, sorry if I misunderstood. So what you are saying is that when you do ERP to gay pornography, you feel less anxious than you did when you first started, but you notice some kind of groinal response, though weaker than when you view straight porn for pleasure. First, it’s important to remember that sexual thoughts and images, regardless of where they are coming from, are going to trigger some kind of sexual response. This is normal. But reminding yourself this is normal will not help the ERP. For exposure with response prevention to be effective, you need to do the exposure AND you need to practice resisting the response. One of your responses is to analyze what happens with your erection and try to prove to yourself that it doesn’t mean you are gay. When doing ERP, I would recommend you tell yourself that the slight erection might mean something and you should continue to try to feel anxious about it until you don’t. I don’t know what a “hidden homosexual” is but I was not suggesting that you are one. Damian September 20, 2013 at 9:02 pm - Reply Thanks for answer Jonathan. Sorry but I have feel that we don´t understand each other. I like women and when I masturbate to women so that is the biggest pleasure for me. My erection is strong and I fell in love only with women. I didn´t feel anything to men When I masturbate to men – it is my urge. My erection is weak, my arousal is weak too. I try to masturbate to men and it is not my need if you understand me. When I started with ERP i remember I was very scary when I saw gay porn but next days the fear started to go down. I don´t understand your describe: So exposure in the case you describe would not just be the viewing of the pornography, but in telling yourself that the stimulation you experience might mean something about your sexual orientation that scares you. // Sorry my Englis is not very well and I can´t translate this part of your answer..Does it mean that you think I´m hidden homosexual? I´m very sorry if I bother you with my questions, but I need serious advice. Jonathan Hershfield September 20, 2013 at 11:59 pm - Reply OK, sorry if I misunderstood. So what you are saying is that when you do ERP to gay pornography, you feel less anxious than you did when you first started, but you notice some kind of groinal response, though weaker than when you view straight porn for pleasure. First, it’s important to remember that sexual thoughts and images, regardless of where they are coming from, are going to trigger some kind of sexual response. This is normal. But reminding yourself this is normal will not help the ERP. For exposure with response prevention to be effective, you need to do the exposure AND you need to practice resisting the response. One of your responses is to analyze what happens with your erection and try to prove to yourself that it doesn’t mean you are gay. When doing ERP, I would recommend you tell yourself that the slight erection might mean something and you should continue to try to feel anxious about it until you don’t. I don’t know what a “hidden homosexual” is but I was not suggesting that you are one. Damian September 21, 2013 at 7:15 pm - Reply Jonathan thank you for your time and I really appreciate. You´re right. I try to prove myself when I do compulsive masturbation that I´m not gay and this is mistake because aftewards I feel very anxious and I have strong sense of guilt. I thought masturbation on gay porn can help me and I get rid of my intrusive thoughts. In fact I seek “the truth” about my sexual orientation when I masturbate on gay porn and It can´t found out because there are obsessions in my head and I can´t ever have them under control. I don´t have enjoy when I masturbate on gay porn but I get some anxious during some day when I´m in some stress period and I can´t resist my analyses then I started think about my sexual orientation and start to analyses my thoughts and I finish compulsive masturbation. It is vicious circle. It is very difficult to resist my analyses. I want to be normal again as before 🙁 Damian September 21, 2013 at 7:15 pm - Reply Jonathan thank you for your time and I really appreciate. You´re right. I try to prove myself when I do compulsive masturbation that I´m not gay and this is mistake because aftewards I feel very anxious and I have strong sense of guilt. I thought masturbation on gay porn can help me and I get rid of my intrusive thoughts. In fact I seek “the truth” about my sexual orientation when I masturbate on gay porn and It can´t found out because there are obsessions in my head and I can´t ever have them under control. I don´t have enjoy when I masturbate on gay porn but I get some anxious during some day when I´m in some stress period and I can´t resist my analyses then I started think about my sexual orientation and start to analyses my thoughts and I finish compulsive masturbation. It is vicious circle. It is very difficult to resist my analyses. I want to be normal again as before 🙁 helpmekate September 22, 2013 at 10:38 pm - Reply Hi Jon, so glad I’ve found your blog posts, now I know what’s happening to me. Even though my hocd is trying to tell me otherwise. For me, it started very sudden. (Excuse my bad english, it’s not my native language) I don’t remember having lesbian dreams, even though I’m questioning that as well. I remember having dreams with guys and remember enjoying them (my hocd now, as I write is trying to convince me that those were women). I lived in a girls doorm (kinda, I’m from Croatia) where girls showered and changed their outfits in front of me and I don’t remember being attracted to them (my hocd is telling me now – you know that girls are pretty, you were watching them because you’re a lesbian). I know girls are pretty, they use makeup and style their hair. I do to, and I enjoy it very much. I know they have boobs and asses (pardon my french), some of them have very beautiful body features, I know that. Before hocd I was jelous kinda, wanting to be good looking. But I always flirted with guys, never had problems with that, I remember even saying to my friend that I can’t make any male friend because I want to flirt with them and see if they want me. Now my hocd ia telling me that all that was a lie and a defense mechanism of a sort, that i knew I was gay and I was trying to convince everyone around me that I wasn’t. In february 2013 my roomate which I believed she was straigh found a girlfriend. I was ok with that, Isupport gay rights. She even took me to a gay bar twice, I liked he music, I like to dance and I enjoyed the attention I was getting because of my dancing skills. I have to mention that I was and I am in a relationship with a guy, he is really sweet and everything you could wish for in a guy. In a gay bar a gay man even kissed me after intense dancing, I felt attracted to him, he had nice lips etc so I came back for another kiss. He told me he was gay but I kissed him anyway. When he first kissed me and the way we danced I thought he must be straight. But no. My friend explained to me that a kiss was a form of gratitude. Me and my boyfriend, we had our problems, but those were never about my sexual orientation, but more if we are the right people for each other. I’m 20 and I’m a med student. Now my hocd is telling me – that was because you are a lesbian. When in fact when we had our problems, in April 2013 I was still recovering from a traumatic brakeup (my first love, I was crazy in love, but he wanted to be friends with benefits. You can only imagine the pain I had to go throuh inthat young age). My hocd is telling me now that I couldn’t bounce back from that brakeup because I’m a lesbian and after him I’ll never be attracted to another man ever again. That’s what I’m going through right now. So my roomate, which is one of my best friends right now (my hocd is telling me now that I’m in love with her) found a girlfriend. I was fine with that, didn’t want much details, but she and her girlfriend were going through some troubles as well and I was trying to be a good friend (my hocd is telling me that I did that because I’m in love with her) and be supportive and try to solve her problems based on little expirience I had in heterosexual relationships. But the fear started to creep in. At the end of August I was talking to my friends how I could never be in a relationship with a woman. I said I had enough of one female brain, imagine I had to be in a relationship with one. When in fact I was afraid. But I ignored that all together. I’m straight, what do I have to worry about. A little before that a guy I know from college told me he was gay, that he came out of the closet etc and that he was happy now. Cool, I’m happy for you. Me and my boyfried were just broken up, I had a lot to study, exams etc so I thought that it was smarter for us to take some time apart (I wasnt sure that medicine was the right thing for me so he let me do my own thing). Everyone around me was turning gay, I felt. Firs my roomate, than this guy from college etc. Soon I became opssessed with figuring out other’s people orientation. Than the guy from college started to hang out with us more and more an he told us all about how he came out of the closet, how he knew he was gay etc. He told me something that haunts me (please Jon help me, I feel this is going to trigger me). He told me he prayed for years to God to give him a girlfriend and he was hoping to be normal and that he wouldn’t feel so unconfortable being gay (is this the case of hocd or is he really gay?) In the end he faced the fact he’s gay and now he says that he’s happy. He told us thatbin two years he didn’t watched any straight porn. That was an instant reaction. I was under a lot of stress, studying a lot and just being afraid all together about exams. I tend to panic that I haven’t study enough, that they will ask me only questions I don’t know etc. I used to panic around unwanted pregnancy as well. Once I took three tests just to make sure even though the first one was negative. So he told us about straight porn. I started counting how much do I watch lesbian porn. I did watched it, it often included toys or men. Not romantic lesbian clips. Just straight forward sex. Then I started googling – how to know if you’re a lesbian and am I a lesbian quiz. The results were – straight or go find yourself a guy. I don’t have much overlaps with lesbian community either. I solved the online Kinsey scale test – came out heterosexual. I started changing my initial answers just to see how far away I am from being a lesbian. Testing thing started on 14. this September and it hasn’t stopped even though the results are always straight. In the last three days I cant eat, my heart is pumping fast and not in a good way. I feel short of breath as well. I’ve hyperventilated in the past. I’m trying to be rational but my fear prevents me from doing the things I enjoy – playing arouns with makeup and being interested in beauty. And hanging around my female friends. The thouhgt of me being a lesbian makes me wanna throw up (my hocd tells me I’m in denial), I have constant diarrea, cant eat, I wish to go to sleep so I dont have to think about it. And wakeup and everything will be as it was. I love my boyfriend so much, he is very patient, I’ve talked with him about my fear and he tries to understand even though I know is hard. I dont want to wake up one day and find out I’m a lesbian and hurt him. I really thought I can finally be happy, my grades are good and me and my boyfriend have sorted out our differences and now this happens. I dont want to be a lesbian, I want to be with the man I love without feeling the constant fear and anxiety that when we are in bed together I wished he was a woman. I dont want to mess it up this time. I’ve been exposed to girls and lesbian content before and it didn’t made me doubt. I never even had fantasy about another women or ever dreamt about being with one. Now everywhere I look i wonder and worry. I lost almost 4 pounds in 3 days, I felt so bad. I really dont think Im a lesbian and that feels like te worst thing that could happen to me because I dont want to leave my boyfriend! I talked about it with my roomate and she said that she never thought of me as a lesbian (my hocd tells me that that means I’m only good at hiding). Just writing this makes me feel better. Bottom line is -is this really hocd or am I a lesbian. What should I do? Help me Jon! Please dont say that I’m a lesbian, i dont want to be one! It makes me sick! Am I on the right track? Now I thought about a random girl from my class and us being together and it made me sick. Help me! Jonathan Hershfield September 27, 2013 at 9:47 pm - Reply >>>>Hi Jon, so glad I’ve found your blog posts, now I know what’s happening to me. Even though my hocd is trying to tell me otherwise. For me, it started very sudden. (Excuse my bad english, it’s not my native language) I don’t remember having lesbian dreams, even though I’m questioning that as well. —It would be weird for someone to have never had any particular kind of dream. >>>>I remember having dreams with guys and remember enjoying them (my hocd now, as I write is trying to convince me that those were women). I lived in a girls doorm (kinda, I’m from Croatia) where girls showered and changed their outfits in front of me and I don’t remember being attracted to them (my hocd is telling me now – you know that girls are pretty, you were watching them because you’re a lesbian). I know girls are pretty, they use makeup and style their hair. I do to, and I enjoy it very much. I know they have boobs and asses (pardon my french), some of them have very beautiful body features, I know that. Before hocd I was jelous kinda, wanting to be good looking. But I always flirted with guys, never had problems with that, I remember even saying to my friend that I can’t make any male friend because I want to flirt with them and see if they want me. —So now we’ve established what you know. The OCD wants you to keep reviewing and rationalizing it so you can be certain. >>>Now my hocd ia telling me that all that was a lie and a defense mechanism of a sort, that i knew I was gay and I was trying to convince everyone around me that I wasn’t. In february 2013 my roomate which I believed she was straigh found a girlfriend. I was ok with that, Isupport gay rights. She even took me to a gay bar twice, I liked he music, I like to dance and I enjoyed the attention I was getting because of my dancing skills. I have to mention that I was and I am in a relationship with a guy, he is really sweet and everything you could wish for in a guy. In a gay bar a gay man even kissed me after intense dancing, I felt attracted to him, he had nice lips etc so I came back for another kiss. He told me he was gay but I kissed him anyway. When he first kissed me and the way we danced I thought he must be straight. But no. My friend explained to me that a kiss was a form of gratitude. —I don’t really understand this story, but Croatia sounds awesome. >>>>Me and my boyfriend, we had our problems, but those were never about my sexual orientation, but more if we are the right people for each other. I’m 20 and I’m a med student. Now my hocd is telling me – that was because you are a lesbian. When in fact when we had our problems, in April 2013 I was still recovering from a traumatic brakeup (my first love, I was crazy in love, but he wanted to be friends with benefits. You can only imagine the pain I had to go throuh inthat young age). My hocd is telling me now that I couldn’t bounce back from that brakeup because I’m a lesbian and after him I’ll never be attracted to another man ever again. That’s what I’m going through right now. —So you have 2 options. One is try to prove the OCD wrong and spend the rest of your life trying. The other is to say to the OCD “OK ,maybe…” and go on living the life that makes the most sense to you. From what you have written, it sounds like that would be a straight life with the occasional presence of doubting thoughts. >>>>So my roomate, which is one of my best friends right now (my hocd is telling me now that I’m in love with her) found a girlfriend. I was fine with that, didn’t want much details, but she and her girlfriend were going through some troubles as well and I was trying to be a good friend (my hocd is telling me that I did that because I’m in love with her) and be supportive and try to solve her problems based on little expirience I had in heterosexual relationships. But the fear started to creep in. At the end of August I was talking to my friends how I could never be in a relationship with a woman. I said I had enough of one female brain, imagine I had to be in a relationship with one. When in fact I was afraid. But I ignored that all together. I’m straight, what do I have to worry about. A little before that a guy I know from college told me he was gay, that he came out of the closet etc and that he was happy now. Cool, I’m happy for you. Me and my boyfried were just broken up, I had a lot to study, exams etc so I thought that it was smarter for us to take some time apart (I wasnt sure that medicine was the right thing for me so he let me do my own thing). Everyone around me was turning gay, I felt. —That’s what college is like. >>>>Firs my roomate, than this guy from college etc. Soon I became opssessed with figuring out other’s people orientation. Than the guy from college started to hang out with us more and more an he told us all about how he came out of the closet, how he knew he was gay etc. He told me something that haunts me (please Jon help me, I feel this is going to trigger me). He told me he prayed for years to God to give him a girlfriend and he was hoping to be normal and that he wouldn’t feel so unconfortable being gay (is this the case of hocd or is he really gay?) In the end he faced the fact he’s gay and now he says that he’s happy. —I don’t know the guy, but it’s not an unusual thing for a person to be aware that they are in the minority and wish they weren’t. Sounds like thankfully he was able to accept himself as he is. >>>>He told us thatbin two years he didn’t watched any straight porn. That was an instant reaction. I was under a lot of stress, studying a lot and just being afraid all together about exams. I tend to panic that I haven’t study enough, that they will ask me only questions I don’t know etc. I used to panic around unwanted pregnancy as well. Once I took three tests just to make sure even though the first one was negative. —Sounds like you have a history of un-treated OCD. >>>>So he told us about straight porn. I started counting how much do I watch lesbian porn. I did watched it, it often included toys or men. Not romantic lesbian clips. Just straight forward sex. Then I started googling – how to know if you’re a lesbian and am I a lesbian quiz. The results were – straight or go find yourself a guy. I don’t have much overlaps with lesbian community either. I solved the online Kinsey scale test – came out heterosexual. I started changing my initial answers just to see how far away I am from being a lesbian. Testing thing started on 14. this September and it hasn’t stopped even though the results are always straight. —These are compulsions. They provide you with temporary reassurance and then fuel the attack for the next obsessive thought. That’s why you get worse instead of better. >>>>In the last three days I cant eat, my heart is pumping fast and not in a good way. I feel short of breath as well. I’ve hyperventilated in the past. I’m trying to be rational but my fear prevents me from doing the things I enjoy – playing arouns with makeup and being interested in beauty. And hanging around my female friends. The thouhgt of me being a lesbian makes me wanna throw up (my hocd tells me I’m in denial), I have constant diarrea, cant eat, I wish to go to sleep so I dont have to think about it. And wakeup and everything will be as it was. I love my boyfriend so much, he is very patient, I’ve talked with him about my fear and he tries to understand even though I know is hard. I dont want to wake up one day and find out I’m a lesbian and hurt him. I really thought I can finally be happy, my grades are good and me and my boyfriend have sorted out our differences and now this happens. I dont want to be a lesbian, I want to be with the man I love without feeling the constant fear and anxiety that when we are in bed together I wished he was a woman. I dont want to mess it up this time. I’ve been exposed to girls and lesbian content before and it didn’t made me doubt. I never even had fantasy about another women or ever dreamt about being with one. Now everywhere I look i wonder and worry. I lost almost 4 pounds in 3 days, I felt so bad. I really dont think Im a lesbian and that feels like te worst thing that could happen to me because I dont want to leave my boyfriend! I talked about it with my roomate and she said that she never thought of me as a lesbian (my hocd tells me that that means I’m only good at hiding). Just writing this makes me feel better. Bottom line is -is this really hocd or am I a lesbian. What should I do? Help me Jon! Please dont say that I’m a lesbian, i dont want to be one! It makes me sick! Am I on the right track? Now I thought about a random girl from my class and us being together and it made me sick. Help me! —-You describe some common symptoms of panic attacks and a lot of symptoms of obsessive compulsive disorder. Because of the high anxiety and panic symptoms, it is likely that you would benefit from medication for OCD, so I recommend you see a psychiatrist for that. The short answer is you need to stop compulsively trying to prove you are straight because that is what is making this obsession so consuming. The best way to learn how to do this is with cognitive behavioral therapy from someone who treats OCD. I don’t know of any specialists in your area, but one option might be seeing someone in the US online. If that’s not possible, the next best thing would be to use a self-cbt workbook for treating your OCD, such as Freedom From Obsessive Compulsive Disorder by Jonathan Grayson. helpmekate September 22, 2013 at 10:38 pm - Reply Hi Jon, so glad I’ve found your blog posts, now I know what’s happening to me. Even though my hocd is trying to tell me otherwise. For me, it started very sudden. (Excuse my bad english, it’s not my native language) I don’t remember having lesbian dreams, even though I’m questioning that as well. I remember having dreams with guys and remember enjoying them (my hocd now, as I write is trying to convince me that those were women). I lived in a girls doorm (kinda, I’m from Croatia) where girls showered and changed their outfits in front of me and I don’t remember being attracted to them (my hocd is telling me now – you know that girls are pretty, you were watching them because you’re a lesbian). I know girls are pretty, they use makeup and style their hair. I do to, and I enjoy it very much. I know they have boobs and asses (pardon my french), some of them have very beautiful body features, I know that. Before hocd I was jelous kinda, wanting to be good looking. But I always flirted with guys, never had problems with that, I remember even saying to my friend that I can’t make any male friend because I want to flirt with them and see if they want me. Now my hocd ia telling me that all that was a lie and a defense mechanism of a sort, that i knew I was gay and I was trying to convince everyone around me that I wasn’t. In february 2013 my roomate which I believed she was straigh found a girlfriend. I was ok with that, Isupport gay rights. She even took me to a gay bar twice, I liked he music, I like to dance and I enjoyed the attention I was getting because of my dancing skills. I have to mention that I was and I am in a relationship with a guy, he is really sweet and everything you could wish for in a guy. In a gay bar a gay man even kissed me after intense dancing, I felt attracted to him, he had nice lips etc so I came back for another kiss. He told me he was gay but I kissed him anyway. When he first kissed me and the way we danced I thought he must be straight. But no. My friend explained to me that a kiss was a form of gratitude. Me and my boyfriend, we had our problems, but those were never about my sexual orientation, but more if we are the right people for each other. I’m 20 and I’m a med student. Now my hocd is telling me – that was because you are a lesbian. When in fact when we had our problems, in April 2013 I was still recovering from a traumatic brakeup (my first love, I was crazy in love, but he wanted to be friends with benefits. You can only imagine the pain I had to go throuh inthat young age). My hocd is telling me now that I couldn’t bounce back from that brakeup because I’m a lesbian and after him I’ll never be attracted to another man ever again. That’s what I’m going through right now. So my roomate, which is one of my best friends right now (my hocd is telling me now that I’m in love with her) found a girlfriend. I was fine with that, didn’t want much details, but she and her girlfriend were going through some troubles as well and I was trying to be a good friend (my hocd is telling me that I did that because I’m in love with her) and be supportive and try to solve her problems based on little expirience I had in heterosexual relationships. But the fear started to creep in. At the end of August I was talking to my friends how I could never be in a relationship with a woman. I said I had enough of one female brain, imagine I had to be in a relationship with one. When in fact I was afraid. But I ignored that all together. I’m straight, what do I have to worry about. A little before that a guy I know from college told me he was gay, that he came out of the closet etc and that he was happy now. Cool, I’m happy for you. Me and my boyfried were just broken up, I had a lot to study, exams etc so I thought that it was smarter for us to take some time apart (I wasnt sure that medicine was the right thing for me so he let me do my own thing). Everyone around me was turning gay, I felt. Firs my roomate, than this guy from college etc. Soon I became opssessed with figuring out other’s people orientation. Than the guy from college started to hang out with us more and more an he told us all about how he came out of the closet, how he knew he was gay etc. He told me something that haunts me (please Jon help me, I feel this is going to trigger me). He told me he prayed for years to God to give him a girlfriend and he was hoping to be normal and that he wouldn’t feel so unconfortable being gay (is this the case of hocd or is he really gay?) In the end he faced the fact he’s gay and now he says that he’s happy. He told us thatbin two years he didn’t watched any straight porn. That was an instant reaction. I was under a lot of stress, studying a lot and just being afraid all together about exams. I tend to panic that I haven’t study enough, that they will ask me only questions I don’t know etc. I used to panic around unwanted pregnancy as well. Once I took three tests just to make sure even though the first one was negative. So he told us about straight porn. I started counting how much do I watch lesbian porn. I did watched it, it often included toys or men. Not romantic lesbian clips. Just straight forward sex. Then I started googling – how to know if you’re a lesbian and am I a lesbian quiz. The results were – straight or go find yourself a guy. I don’t have much overlaps with lesbian community either. I solved the online Kinsey scale test – came out heterosexual. I started changing my initial answers just to see how far away I am from being a lesbian. Testing thing started on 14. this September and it hasn’t stopped even though the results are always straight. In the last three days I cant eat, my heart is pumping fast and not in a good way. I feel short of breath as well. I’ve hyperventilated in the past. I’m trying to be rational but my fear prevents me from doing the things I enjoy – playing arouns with makeup and being interested in beauty. And hanging around my female friends. The thouhgt of me being a lesbian makes me wanna throw up (my hocd tells me I’m in denial), I have constant diarrea, cant eat, I wish to go to sleep so I dont have to think about it. And wakeup and everything will be as it was. I love my boyfriend so much, he is very patient, I’ve talked with him about my fear and he tries to understand even though I know is hard. I dont want to wake up one day and find out I’m a lesbian and hurt him. I really thought I can finally be happy, my grades are good and me and my boyfriend have sorted out our differences and now this happens. I dont want to be a lesbian, I want to be with the man I love without feeling the constant fear and anxiety that when we are in bed together I wished he was a woman. I dont want to mess it up this time. I’ve been exposed to girls and lesbian content before and it didn’t made me doubt. I never even had fantasy about another women or ever dreamt about being with one. Now everywhere I look i wonder and worry. I lost almost 4 pounds in 3 days, I felt so bad. I really dont think Im a lesbian and that feels like te worst thing that could happen to me because I dont want to leave my boyfriend! I talked about it with my roomate and she said that she never thought of me as a lesbian (my hocd tells me that that means I’m only good at hiding). Just writing this makes me feel better. Bottom line is -is this really hocd or am I a lesbian. What should I do? Help me Jon! Please dont say that I’m a lesbian, i dont want to be one! It makes me sick! Am I on the right track? Now I thought about a random girl from my class and us being together and it made me sick. Help me! Jonathan Hershfield September 27, 2013 at 9:47 pm - Reply >>>>Hi Jon, so glad I’ve found your blog posts, now I know what’s happening to me. Even though my hocd is trying to tell me otherwise. For me, it started very sudden. (Excuse my bad english, it’s not my native language) I don’t remember having lesbian dreams, even though I’m questioning that as well. —It would be weird for someone to have never had any particular kind of dream. >>>>I remember having dreams with guys and remember enjoying them (my hocd now, as I write is trying to convince me that those were women). I lived in a girls doorm (kinda, I’m from Croatia) where girls showered and changed their outfits in front of me and I don’t remember being attracted to them (my hocd is telling me now – you know that girls are pretty, you were watching them because you’re a lesbian). I know girls are pretty, they use makeup and style their hair. I do to, and I enjoy it very much. I know they have boobs and asses (pardon my french), some of them have very beautiful body features, I know that. Before hocd I was jelous kinda, wanting to be good looking. But I always flirted with guys, never had problems with that, I remember even saying to my friend that I can’t make any male friend because I want to flirt with them and see if they want me. —So now we’ve established what you know. The OCD wants you to keep reviewing and rationalizing it so you can be certain. >>>Now my hocd ia telling me that all that was a lie and a defense mechanism of a sort, that i knew I was gay and I was trying to convince everyone around me that I wasn’t. In february 2013 my roomate which I believed she was straigh found a girlfriend. I was ok with that, Isupport gay rights. She even took me to a gay bar twice, I liked he music, I like to dance and I enjoyed the attention I was getting because of my dancing skills. I have to mention that I was and I am in a relationship with a guy, he is really sweet and everything you could wish for in a guy. In a gay bar a gay man even kissed me after intense dancing, I felt attracted to him, he had nice lips etc so I came back for another kiss. He told me he was gay but I kissed him anyway. When he first kissed me and the way we danced I thought he must be straight. But no. My friend explained to me that a kiss was a form of gratitude. —I don’t really understand this story, but Croatia sounds awesome. >>>>Me and my boyfriend, we had our problems, but those were never about my sexual orientation, but more if we are the right people for each other. I’m 20 and I’m a med student. Now my hocd is telling me – that was because you are a lesbian. When in fact when we had our problems, in April 2013 I was still recovering from a traumatic brakeup (my first love, I was crazy in love, but he wanted to be friends with benefits. You can only imagine the pain I had to go throuh inthat young age). My hocd is telling me now that I couldn’t bounce back from that brakeup because I’m a lesbian and after him I’ll never be attracted to another man ever again. That’s what I’m going through right now. —So you have 2 options. One is try to prove the OCD wrong and spend the rest of your life trying. The other is to say to the OCD “OK ,maybe…” and go on living the life that makes the most sense to you. From what you have written, it sounds like that would be a straight life with the occasional presence of doubting thoughts. >>>>So my roomate, which is one of my best friends right now (my hocd is telling me now that I’m in love with her) found a girlfriend. I was fine with that, didn’t want much details, but she and her girlfriend were going through some troubles as well and I was trying to be a good friend (my hocd is telling me that I did that because I’m in love with her) and be supportive and try to solve her problems based on little expirience I had in heterosexual relationships. But the fear started to creep in. At the end of August I was talking to my friends how I could never be in a relationship with a woman. I said I had enough of one female brain, imagine I had to be in a relationship with one. When in fact I was afraid. But I ignored that all together. I’m straight, what do I have to worry about. A little before that a guy I know from college told me he was gay, that he came out of the closet etc and that he was happy now. Cool, I’m happy for you. Me and my boyfried were just broken up, I had a lot to study, exams etc so I thought that it was smarter for us to take some time apart (I wasnt sure that medicine was the right thing for me so he let me do my own thing). Everyone around me was turning gay, I felt. —That’s what college is like. >>>>Firs my roomate, than this guy from college etc. Soon I became opssessed with figuring out other’s people orientation. Than the guy from college started to hang out with us more and more an he told us all about how he came out of the closet, how he knew he was gay etc. He told me something that haunts me (please Jon help me, I feel this is going to trigger me). He told me he prayed for years to God to give him a girlfriend and he was hoping to be normal and that he wouldn’t feel so unconfortable being gay (is this the case of hocd or is he really gay?) In the end he faced the fact he’s gay and now he says that he’s happy. —I don’t know the guy, but it’s not an unusual thing for a person to be aware that they are in the minority and wish they weren’t. Sounds like thankfully he was able to accept himself as he is. >>>>He told us thatbin two years he didn’t watched any straight porn. That was an instant reaction. I was under a lot of stress, studying a lot and just being afraid all together about exams. I tend to panic that I haven’t study enough, that they will ask me only questions I don’t know etc. I used to panic around unwanted pregnancy as well. Once I took three tests just to make sure even though the first one was negative. —Sounds like you have a history of un-treated OCD. >>>>So he told us about straight porn. I started counting how much do I watch lesbian porn. I did watched it, it often included toys or men. Not romantic lesbian clips. Just straight forward sex. Then I started googling – how to know if you’re a lesbian and am I a lesbian quiz. The results were – straight or go find yourself a guy. I don’t have much overlaps with lesbian community either. I solved the online Kinsey scale test – came out heterosexual. I started changing my initial answers just to see how far away I am from being a lesbian. Testing thing started on 14. this September and it hasn’t stopped even though the results are always straight. —These are compulsions. They provide you with temporary reassurance and then fuel the attack for the next obsessive thought. That’s why you get worse instead of better. >>>>In the last three days I cant eat, my heart is pumping fast and not in a good way. I feel short of breath as well. I’ve hyperventilated in the past. I’m trying to be rational but my fear prevents me from doing the things I enjoy – playing arouns with makeup and being interested in beauty. And hanging around my female friends. The thouhgt of me being a lesbian makes me wanna throw up (my hocd tells me I’m in denial), I have constant diarrea, cant eat, I wish to go to sleep so I dont have to think about it. And wakeup and everything will be as it was. I love my boyfriend so much, he is very patient, I’ve talked with him about my fear and he tries to understand even though I know is hard. I dont want to wake up one day and find out I’m a lesbian and hurt him. I really thought I can finally be happy, my grades are good and me and my boyfriend have sorted out our differences and now this happens. I dont want to be a lesbian, I want to be with the man I love without feeling the constant fear and anxiety that when we are in bed together I wished he was a woman. I dont want to mess it up this time. I’ve been exposed to girls and lesbian content before and it didn’t made me doubt. I never even had fantasy about another women or ever dreamt about being with one. Now everywhere I look i wonder and worry. I lost almost 4 pounds in 3 days, I felt so bad. I really dont think Im a lesbian and that feels like te worst thing that could happen to me because I dont want to leave my boyfriend! I talked about it with my roomate and she said that she never thought of me as a lesbian (my hocd tells me that that means I’m only good at hiding). Just writing this makes me feel better. Bottom line is -is this really hocd or am I a lesbian. What should I do? Help me Jon! Please dont say that I’m a lesbian, i dont want to be one! It makes me sick! Am I on the right track? Now I thought about a random girl from my class and us being together and it made me sick. Help me! —-You describe some common symptoms of panic attacks and a lot of symptoms of obsessive compulsive disorder. Because of the high anxiety and panic symptoms, it is likely that you would benefit from medication for OCD, so I recommend you see a psychiatrist for that. The short answer is you need to stop compulsively trying to prove you are straight because that is what is making this obsession so consuming. The best way to learn how to do this is with cognitive behavioral therapy from someone who treats OCD. I don’t know of any specialists in your area, but one option might be seeing someone in the US online. If that’s not possible, the next best thing would be to use a self-cbt workbook for treating your OCD, such as Freedom From Obsessive Compulsive Disorder by Jonathan Grayson. helpmekate September 23, 2013 at 4:29 am - Reply Another comment. I tried to imagine mysellf with a girl and loving and caring for a girl in that way. It still makes my body react the way it did but I’m telling my mind – that’s ok. If you are lesbian, hope you’ll be a happy one. It makes me shiver but I dont find the though so repulsive and it didnt cause reaction on that scale as before. I try to think about holding hands with a woman and being intimate with her and it still makes me wanna stop those thoughts but I push through. I let them sit in my mind a little bit and try not to push them away. And I dont know am I on a right track? Jonathan Hershfield September 27, 2013 at 9:49 pm - Reply That can be a good exposure, but it’s important that you resist trying to use this to prove that you are straight. If it becomes a source of reassurance or you are using it to test yourself, then it feed the OCD. helpmekate September 23, 2013 at 4:29 am - Reply Another comment. I tried to imagine mysellf with a girl and loving and caring for a girl in that way. It still makes my body react the way it did but I’m telling my mind – that’s ok. If you are lesbian, hope you’ll be a happy one. It makes me shiver but I dont find the though so repulsive and it didnt cause reaction on that scale as before. I try to think about holding hands with a woman and being intimate with her and it still makes me wanna stop those thoughts but I push through. I let them sit in my mind a little bit and try not to push them away. And I dont know am I on a right track? Jonathan Hershfield September 27, 2013 at 9:49 pm - Reply That can be a good exposure, but it’s important that you resist trying to use this to prove that you are straight. If it becomes a source of reassurance or you are using it to test yourself, then it feed the OCD. helpmekate September 28, 2013 at 10:03 am - Reply Thank you Jon for responding! So this is whats been happening in the last few days, since my last comment. I’ve been reading your blog posts a lot. I know that is a compulsion, but I wanted to know am I doing the right thing. I’ve talked to my friends a lot about everything and I tried to keep an open mind and be honest with myself because I know thats the only way I’m ever going to help myself. I’ve done some research and even though I couldn’t find anyone here who does erp I decided to get help and ask someone who is better in this than I am. I’m still afraid that when I go see a therapist that they in the end will say to me – you are in fact bisexual or lesbian, but not afraid as I used to be, five days ago. I’ve decided to do my own erp and sometimes it works, sometimes I panic and just start to read hocd stories to calm myself down. I know that is a mistake, but it feels good and it calms me down in that moment. I remembered I’ve kissed my best friend when I was 17 in a club. We were drunk and I thought that would be a cool idea. So I kissed her on the lips, it was ok I guess and havent thought about it later. Untill two days ago, when it triggered me. I was so confused, so scared, my digestive system reacted, I had to go home and calm myself where there is no people around. And this is how stoped bothering me in a way that I think about it only when I remember that I have a problem and that I’ve been in hell for a past week. I told myself – so what, you kissed her, it wasnt such a big deal before, why it should be now. You kissed your friend and didnt really thougt about it later. Maybe you were really attraced to her in that moment, so what. Thats all ok. If you want to do it again, I guess it would make you happy. Maybe you really are bi. And if you ever find a women that you’ll find good enouhg it would be ok to try something. I hope I’m on the right track. And I try to focus on other things and I dont think about it, it just doesnt pop in my mind untill something else happens, when i remember that I did that, than I do all of this again and try to move on. But let me describe another thing. I remember checking myself earlier in Semptember am I attracted to another friend of mine. It could be form of checking from fear, it could be just me wondering without hocd. So I thouhgt about that friend, she is good looking and I thought about us being together. And I felt some kind of feeling in my belly and groin that I can describe as sexual, I guess. But it freaked me out, why am I feeling this? Am I really sexualy attracted to her? I pushed that away andhavent thought about it untill day before yesterday when it triggered me. We were hanging out, I remember avoiding her because of that and i remembered that feeling. It made me go crazy. I didnt know what it meant, and if it was a sexual nature, and I’m 90% sure that it was, I paniced, we were at here place, and I had a almost a melt down in front of her, I couldnt stop repeating – maybe I really am I lesbian, maybe you really attracted me, maybe I really want to date girls. I couldnt bring myself down, i almost cried and all I wanted to do was to go to sleep. But we had to go meet another friend and I had to go. Walking down the street I suddenly felt so calm. Cant describe what it was, but that fact didnt bother me that much. So what, she is a cute girl.maybe i’m really discovering that i could be sexualy attracted to women. And i thought i should just relax and let my sexuality show itself naturally. Gay? Ok, than gay, I’ll learn how to be gay. Bi? Ok, than bi is ok as well. Straight? Maybe I’m straight. Maybe we all are at some point bi. Maybe is ok to watch lesbian pornography and get turned on, on touch a girl and enjoy it. Or even be with one. And my apetite is getting slowly back. Now i know, at least i think i know that questioning is part of growing up. I still like guys, i dont think or fantasise about a girl, only asa form of rvp and i try not to make a big deal about it, wheter i liked it or not. Maybe i’ll like it. If i do, i’ll try not to panic and prove myself that i’m straight. And if i dont, i’ll try not to think about it as a form of validation that i’m in fact straight. Maybe i’m not. Who knows where life will take me. I’m still afraid when I go to sleep, that i’ll have a lesbian dream and prove myself that i’m a lesbian. On bi. I took some sleeping pills just to be able to relax, they are bromasepan kind i think. I dont know the term in english. And i still love my boyfriend and want to be intimate, hug and kiss him. That is the only fact i know. I still care for him. My libido hasnt come back to the fullest, i’m afraid that i’ll start imagining a woman. That is something i have to work on. But whatever the answer to all of this is. Hocd, me really being a lesbian/bi or something else i know i dont want to be in this hell anymore. I want to be free, lesbian or straight. I want live as a normal person. I will be hard, and i know i’ll panic a lot in the future, trying to find out what i really am – bi, lesbian or straight. But i need to find strenght to move on and leave that question as is. Jonathan Hershfield September 29, 2013 at 5:46 pm - Reply >>>>Thank you Jon for responding! So this is whats been happening in the last few days, since my last comment. I’ve been reading your blog posts a lot. I know that is a compulsion, but I wanted to know am I doing the right thing. I’ve talked to my friends a lot about everything and I tried to keep an open mind and be honest with myself because I know thats the only way I’m ever going to help myself. I’ve done some research and even though I couldn’t find anyone here who does erp I decided to get help and ask someone who is better in this than I am. —Some help from a professional therapist is probably better than no help, but if they don’t do ERP, you should ask if they are willing to educate themselves on the subject since it is the only treatment for OCD that works. I would also encourage you to “research” in the form of reading some of the better-known books on the subject of OCD. >>>I’m still afraid that when I go see a therapist that they in the end will say to me – you are in fact bisexual or lesbian, —You can choose to base objective reality on what one therapist says, but I wouldn’t recommend it. >>>>but not afraid as I used to be, five days ago. I’ve decided to do my own erp and sometimes it works, sometimes I panic and just start to read hocd stories to calm myself down. I know that is a mistake, but it feels good and it calms me down in that moment. —-It’s not that it’s a mistake so much as it’s a complete waste of you time. If you want to overcome a fear, then confront that fear, and then engage in a ritual to neutralize that fear, all your brain has learned is that you were afraid of that thing you confronted and couldn’t handle it. You already knew that. >>>>I remembered I’ve kissed my best friend when I was 17 in a club. We were drunk and I thought that would be a cool idea. So I kissed her on the lips, it was ok I guess and havent thought about it later. Untill two days ago, when it triggered me. I was so confused, so scared, my digestive system reacted, I had to go home and calm myself where there is no people around. And this is how stoped bothering me in a way that I think about it only when I remember that I have a problem and that I’ve been in hell for a past week. I told myself – so what, you kissed her, it wasnt such a big deal before, why it should be now. You kissed your friend and didnt really thougt about it later. Maybe you were really attraced to her in that moment, so what. Thats all ok. If you want to do it again, I guess it would make you happy. Maybe you really are bi. And if you ever find a women that you’ll find good enouhg it would be ok to try something. I hope I’m on the right track. And I try to focus on other things and I dont think about it, it just doesnt pop in my mind untill something else happens, when i remember that I did that, than I do all of this again and try to move on. —Sounds like you are on the right track, but I would spend less time trying to rationalize the thought away and more time just doing what you want. So you can say, “OK, maybe that was kinda gay and maybe it means something, but right now I’m going to watch this tv show instead of trying to figure it out…” In other words, instead of “trying” to move on, just accept the thoughts and move on to a present behavior even while still feeling uncomfortable. >>>>But let me describe another thing. I remember checking myself earlier in Semptember am I attracted to another friend of mine. It could be form of checking from fear, it could be just me wondering without hocd. So I thouhgt about that friend, she is good looking and I thought about us being together. And I felt some kind of feeling in my belly and groin that I can describe as sexual, I guess. But it freaked me out, why am I feeling this? Am I really sexualy attracted to her? I pushed that away andhavent thought about it untill day before yesterday when it triggered me. We were hanging out, I remember avoiding her because of that and i remembered that feeling. It made me go crazy. I didnt know what it meant, and if it was a sexual nature, and I’m 90% sure that it was, I paniced, we were at here place, and I had a almost a melt down in front of her, I couldnt stop repeating – maybe I really am I lesbian, maybe you really attracted me, maybe I really want to date girls. I couldnt bring myself down, i almost cried and all I wanted to do was to go to sleep. But we had to go meet another friend and I had to go. Walking down the street I suddenly felt so calm. Cant describe what it was, but that fact didnt bother me that much. So what, she is a cute girl.maybe i’m really discovering that i could be sexualy attracted to women. And i thought i should just relax and let my sexuality show itself naturally. Gay? Ok, than gay, I’ll learn how to be gay. Bi? Ok, than bi is ok as well. Straight? Maybe I’m straight. Maybe we all are at some point bi. Maybe is ok to watch lesbian pornography and get turned on, on touch a girl and enjoy it. Or even be with one. And my apetite is getting slowly back. Now i know, at least i think i know that questioning is part of growing up. I still like guys, i dont think or fantasise about a girl, only asa form of rvp and i try not to make a big deal about it, wheter i liked it or not. Maybe i’ll like it. If i do, i’ll try not to panic and prove myself that i’m straight. And if i dont, i’ll try not to think about it as a form of validation that i’m in fact straight. Maybe i’m not. Who knows where life will take me. I’m still afraid when I go to sleep, that i’ll have a lesbian dream and prove myself that i’m a lesbian. On bi. I took some sleeping pills just to be able to relax, they are bromasepan kind i think. I dont know the term in english. And i still love my boyfriend and want to be intimate, hug and kiss him. That is the only fact i know. I still care for him. My libido hasnt come back to the fullest, i’m afraid that i’ll start imagining a woman. That is something i have to work on. But whatever the answer to all of this is. Hocd, me really being a lesbian/bi or something else i know i dont want to be in this hell anymore. I want to be free, lesbian or straight. I want live as a normal person. I will be hard, and i know i’ll panic a lot in the future, trying to find out what i really am – bi, lesbian or straight. But i need to find strenght to move on and leave that question as is. —That’s a lot of information, but again I think the problem is all the time you are spent rationalizing. Stop trying to figure it out and it will stop seeming like a threat to you. If you have a genuine attraction to women, so be it. It’s all the mental review that attaches meaning to this otherwise meaningless experience. You say you want to live as a “normal” person. Normal people accept uncertainty and do what they like. helpmekate September 28, 2013 at 10:03 am - Reply Thank you Jon for responding! So this is whats been happening in the last few days, since my last comment. I’ve been reading your blog posts a lot. I know that is a compulsion, but I wanted to know am I doing the right thing. I’ve talked to my friends a lot about everything and I tried to keep an open mind and be honest with myself because I know thats the only way I’m ever going to help myself. I’ve done some research and even though I couldn’t find anyone here who does erp I decided to get help and ask someone who is better in this than I am. I’m still afraid that when I go see a therapist that they in the end will say to me – you are in fact bisexual or lesbian, but not afraid as I used to be, five days ago. I’ve decided to do my own erp and sometimes it works, sometimes I panic and just start to read hocd stories to calm myself down. I know that is a mistake, but it feels good and it calms me down in that moment. I remembered I’ve kissed my best friend when I was 17 in a club. We were drunk and I thought that would be a cool idea. So I kissed her on the lips, it was ok I guess and havent thought about it later. Untill two days ago, when it triggered me. I was so confused, so scared, my digestive system reacted, I had to go home and calm myself where there is no people around. And this is how stoped bothering me in a way that I think about it only when I remember that I have a problem and that I’ve been in hell for a past week. I told myself – so what, you kissed her, it wasnt such a big deal before, why it should be now. You kissed your friend and didnt really thougt about it later. Maybe you were really attraced to her in that moment, so what. Thats all ok. If you want to do it again, I guess it would make you happy. Maybe you really are bi. And if you ever find a women that you’ll find good enouhg it would be ok to try something. I hope I’m on the right track. And I try to focus on other things and I dont think about it, it just doesnt pop in my mind untill something else happens, when i remember that I did that, than I do all of this again and try to move on. But let me describe another thing. I remember checking myself earlier in Semptember am I attracted to another friend of mine. It could be form of checking from fear, it could be just me wondering without hocd. So I thouhgt about that friend, she is good looking and I thought about us being together. And I felt some kind of feeling in my belly and groin that I can describe as sexual, I guess. But it freaked me out, why am I feeling this? Am I really sexualy attracted to her? I pushed that away andhavent thought about it untill day before yesterday when it triggered me. We were hanging out, I remember avoiding her because of that and i remembered that feeling. It made me go crazy. I didnt know what it meant, and if it was a sexual nature, and I’m 90% sure that it was, I paniced, we were at here place, and I had a almost a melt down in front of her, I couldnt stop repeating – maybe I really am I lesbian, maybe you really attracted me, maybe I really want to date girls. I couldnt bring myself down, i almost cried and all I wanted to do was to go to sleep. But we had to go meet another friend and I had to go. Walking down the street I suddenly felt so calm. Cant describe what it was, but that fact didnt bother me that much. So what, she is a cute girl.maybe i’m really discovering that i could be sexualy attracted to women. And i thought i should just relax and let my sexuality show itself naturally. Gay? Ok, than gay, I’ll learn how to be gay. Bi? Ok, than bi is ok as well. Straight? Maybe I’m straight. Maybe we all are at some point bi. Maybe is ok to watch lesbian pornography and get turned on, on touch a girl and enjoy it. Or even be with one. And my apetite is getting slowly back. Now i know, at least i think i know that questioning is part of growing up. I still like guys, i dont think or fantasise about a girl, only asa form of rvp and i try not to make a big deal about it, wheter i liked it or not. Maybe i’ll like it. If i do, i’ll try not to panic and prove myself that i’m straight. And if i dont, i’ll try not to think about it as a form of validation that i’m in fact straight. Maybe i’m not. Who knows where life will take me. I’m still afraid when I go to sleep, that i’ll have a lesbian dream and prove myself that i’m a lesbian. On bi. I took some sleeping pills just to be able to relax, they are bromasepan kind i think. I dont know the term in english. And i still love my boyfriend and want to be intimate, hug and kiss him. That is the only fact i know. I still care for him. My libido hasnt come back to the fullest, i’m afraid that i’ll start imagining a woman. That is something i have to work on. But whatever the answer to all of this is. Hocd, me really being a lesbian/bi or something else i know i dont want to be in this hell anymore. I want to be free, lesbian or straight. I want live as a normal person. I will be hard, and i know i’ll panic a lot in the future, trying to find out what i really am – bi, lesbian or straight. But i need to find strenght to move on and leave that question as is. Jonathan Hershfield September 29, 2013 at 5:46 pm - Reply >>>>Thank you Jon for responding! So this is whats been happening in the last few days, since my last comment. I’ve been reading your blog posts a lot. I know that is a compulsion, but I wanted to know am I doing the right thing. I’ve talked to my friends a lot about everything and I tried to keep an open mind and be honest with myself because I know thats the only way I’m ever going to help myself. I’ve done some research and even though I couldn’t find anyone here who does erp I decided to get help and ask someone who is better in this than I am. —Some help from a professional therapist is probably better than no help, but if they don’t do ERP, you should ask if they are willing to educate themselves on the subject since it is the only treatment for OCD that works. I would also encourage you to “research” in the form of reading some of the better-known books on the subject of OCD. >>>I’m still afraid that when I go see a therapist that they in the end will say to me – you are in fact bisexual or lesbian, —You can choose to base objective reality on what one therapist says, but I wouldn’t recommend it. >>>>but not afraid as I used to be, five days ago. I’ve decided to do my own erp and sometimes it works, sometimes I panic and just start to read hocd stories to calm myself down. I know that is a mistake, but it feels good and it calms me down in that moment. —-It’s not that it’s a mistake so much as it’s a complete waste of you time. If you want to overcome a fear, then confront that fear, and then engage in a ritual to neutralize that fear, all your brain has learned is that you were afraid of that thing you confronted and couldn’t handle it. You already knew that. >>>>I remembered I’ve kissed my best friend when I was 17 in a club. We were drunk and I thought that would be a cool idea. So I kissed her on the lips, it was ok I guess and havent thought about it later. Untill two days ago, when it triggered me. I was so confused, so scared, my digestive system reacted, I had to go home and calm myself where there is no people around. And this is how stoped bothering me in a way that I think about it only when I remember that I have a problem and that I’ve been in hell for a past week. I told myself – so what, you kissed her, it wasnt such a big deal before, why it should be now. You kissed your friend and didnt really thougt about it later. Maybe you were really attraced to her in that moment, so what. Thats all ok. If you want to do it again, I guess it would make you happy. Maybe you really are bi. And if you ever find a women that you’ll find good enouhg it would be ok to try something. I hope I’m on the right track. And I try to focus on other things and I dont think about it, it just doesnt pop in my mind untill something else happens, when i remember that I did that, than I do all of this again and try to move on. —Sounds like you are on the right track, but I would spend less time trying to rationalize the thought away and more time just doing what you want. So you can say, “OK, maybe that was kinda gay and maybe it means something, but right now I’m going to watch this tv show instead of trying to figure it out…” In other words, instead of “trying” to move on, just accept the thoughts and move on to a present behavior even while still feeling uncomfortable. >>>>But let me describe another thing. I remember checking myself earlier in Semptember am I attracted to another friend of mine. It could be form of checking from fear, it could be just me wondering without hocd. So I thouhgt about that friend, she is good looking and I thought about us being together. And I felt some kind of feeling in my belly and groin that I can describe as sexual, I guess. But it freaked me out, why am I feeling this? Am I really sexualy attracted to her? I pushed that away andhavent thought about it untill day before yesterday when it triggered me. We were hanging out, I remember avoiding her because of that and i remembered that feeling. It made me go crazy. I didnt know what it meant, and if it was a sexual nature, and I’m 90% sure that it was, I paniced, we were at here place, and I had a almost a melt down in front of her, I couldnt stop repeating – maybe I really am I lesbian, maybe you really attracted me, maybe I really want to date girls. I couldnt bring myself down, i almost cried and all I wanted to do was to go to sleep. But we had to go meet another friend and I had to go. Walking down the street I suddenly felt so calm. Cant describe what it was, but that fact didnt bother me that much. So what, she is a cute girl.maybe i’m really discovering that i could be sexualy attracted to women. And i thought i should just relax and let my sexuality show itself naturally. Gay? Ok, than gay, I’ll learn how to be gay. Bi? Ok, than bi is ok as well. Straight? Maybe I’m straight. Maybe we all are at some point bi. Maybe is ok to watch lesbian pornography and get turned on, on touch a girl and enjoy it. Or even be with one. And my apetite is getting slowly back. Now i know, at least i think i know that questioning is part of growing up. I still like guys, i dont think or fantasise about a girl, only asa form of rvp and i try not to make a big deal about it, wheter i liked it or not. Maybe i’ll like it. If i do, i’ll try not to panic and prove myself that i’m straight. And if i dont, i’ll try not to think about it as a form of validation that i’m in fact straight. Maybe i’m not. Who knows where life will take me. I’m still afraid when I go to sleep, that i’ll have a lesbian dream and prove myself that i’m a lesbian. On bi. I took some sleeping pills just to be able to relax, they are bromasepan kind i think. I dont know the term in english. And i still love my boyfriend and want to be intimate, hug and kiss him. That is the only fact i know. I still care for him. My libido hasnt come back to the fullest, i’m afraid that i’ll start imagining a woman. That is something i have to work on. But whatever the answer to all of this is. Hocd, me really being a lesbian/bi or something else i know i dont want to be in this hell anymore. I want to be free, lesbian or straight. I want live as a normal person. I will be hard, and i know i’ll panic a lot in the future, trying to find out what i really am – bi, lesbian or straight. But i need to find strenght to move on and leave that question as is. —That’s a lot of information, but again I think the problem is all the time you are spent rationalizing. Stop trying to figure it out and it will stop seeming like a threat to you. If you have a genuine attraction to women, so be it. It’s all the mental review that attaches meaning to this otherwise meaningless experience. You say you want to live as a “normal” person. Normal people accept uncertainty and do what they like. helpmekate September 28, 2013 at 12:40 pm - Reply Thank you Jon so much for your time! I’m writing another comment, sorry, but I want to make sure that I’m on the right track with this erp I’m doing. I feel better a bit. Less anxious, and more relaxed. It’s easier now to focus on other things. Am I doing it right like I wrote in my previous comment? Jonathan Hershfield September 29, 2013 at 8:14 pm - Reply This question is a compulsion. helpmekate September 28, 2013 at 12:40 pm - Reply Thank you Jon so much for your time! I’m writing another comment, sorry, but I want to make sure that I’m on the right track with this erp I’m doing. I feel better a bit. Less anxious, and more relaxed. It’s easier now to focus on other things. Am I doing it right like I wrote in my previous comment? Jonathan Hershfield September 29, 2013 at 8:14 pm - Reply This question is a compulsion. helpmekate September 30, 2013 at 5:35 am - Reply I knew that question was a compulsion. Thank you again so so much for your time and support. I need to be brave and focus on really important things in my life. I do my own erp and it’s so unconfortable, sometimes I think it’s so hard that I can’t handle it. But I’m doing better and I’m facing the fear I’m in denial. It will take a lot of time and it’s hard, but I’ll make it through it. I’m trying to get my life back to normal and not think so much and it helps and I can see some improvement. Thank you again! helpmekate September 30, 2013 at 5:35 am - Reply I knew that question was a compulsion. Thank you again so so much for your time and support. I need to be brave and focus on really important things in my life. I do my own erp and it’s so unconfortable, sometimes I think it’s so hard that I can’t handle it. But I’m doing better and I’m facing the fear I’m in denial. It will take a lot of time and it’s hard, but I’ll make it through it. I’m trying to get my life back to normal and not think so much and it helps and I can see some improvement. Thank you again! helpmekate October 1, 2013 at 7:02 am - Reply Hi Jon, sorry for another comment. I was just wondering what are your thoughts on NLP as a method for ocd? Jonathan Hershfield October 3, 2013 at 3:47 am - Reply Silly, but I’m biased towards things that work. helpmekate October 1, 2013 at 7:02 am - Reply Hi Jon, sorry for another comment. I was just wondering what are your thoughts on NLP as a method for ocd? Jonathan Hershfield October 3, 2013 at 3:47 am - Reply Silly, but I’m biased towards things that work. Henry October 1, 2013 at 8:42 pm - Reply Hey, Jon, another one coming at you. I’m 18 and I’m pretty sure I’ve suffered from HOCD since grade 9. I always had fear of looking gay, acting gay, or sounding gay and changed my behaviour accordingly. The fear of being attracted to males was always on my mind, despite the fact that I have felt genuine attraction emotional and physical attraction to women (at the moment, my OCD-triggered doubt is telling me these attractions were meaningless and that I’m in denial). I believe it at all stemmed from when I had a few homosexual encounters when I was just a kid. They lessened as I got older and by the time I was 12/13 they had ceased altogether. I haven’t had the urge to do anything like that since. Like I said before, it was always a worry but one I could live with. Obviously it’s gotten worse or I wouldn’t have even searched for this article. I recently watched the movie Milk and I guess I felt some kind of movement in my groin, associated it with stimulation, and now I’m in the shit. I’ve become severely depressed and the question of, “am I actually gay?” will not leave my mind. These thoughts are accompanied by unwanted homosexual thoughts and frequent groinal responses (I believe this is because I am constantly focusing on penis for signs of stimulation) but never any actual erections. I’ve tried accepting the uncertainty and moving on, which worked for awhile, but now it’s back and it’s even worse. I notice attractive men, but I don’t feel an actual attraction. It’s like I’m caught in this spiral of “Oh, a naked man, I’m not attracted to him” and my thoughts will instantly turn to my penis to look for any signs of stimulation, which in turn causes a response in my penis. I’ve noticed my attraction to women has lessened, which scares the hell out of me. You suggested erp and I’d like to do my own because I’m not in any financial situation to see a specialist. Do you have any suggestions for doing my own erp? I know this is long but I’m just tired of it all. PS: I think I’ve narrowed my fears down to fear of being sexually attracted to men, which would mean (in my distorted mind) that I’m gay. This, in turn, would mean that the life I had pictured for myself is now ruined. Henry October 1, 2013 at 8:51 pm - Reply I’ve also been avoiding contact with males as well as any kind of pictures/movies with potentially unclothed males in fear of being attracted to them. It’s hard for me to even look other guys in the eye anymore. One last thing: No matter what I do, my attention immediately jumps to my penis as soon as any contact with another guy happens. Is this a compulsion? Jonathan Hershfield October 3, 2013 at 4:27 am - Reply Your ERP plan should definitely involve identifying and eliminating all of the avoidance. Avoidance sends the message to the brain that the thing you are avoiding is a threat. That’s it. It doesn’t ultimately make you feel certain or safe, just more avoidant. The automatic groinal checking is automatic, so I wouldn’t focus on stopping it directly. The compulsion you need to stop is the analysis of what you find after the automatic checking has occurred. That’s what leads to more checking. Jonathan Hershfield October 3, 2013 at 4:24 am - Reply >>>>Hey, Jon, another one coming at you. I’m 18 and I’m pretty sure I’ve suffered from HOCD since grade 9. I always had fear of looking gay, acting gay, or sounding gay and changed my behaviour accordingly. The fear of being attracted to males was always on my mind, despite the fact that I have felt genuine attraction emotional and physical attraction to women (at the moment, my OCD-triggered doubt is telling me these attractions were meaningless and that I’m in denial). I believe it at all stemmed from when I had a few homosexual encounters when I was just a kid. They lessened as I got older and by the time I was 12/13 they had ceased altogether. I haven’t had the urge to do anything like that since. Like I said before, it was always a worry but one I could live with. —-Sexual experiences before puberty by definition mean sexual experiences before the sexual mind has fully developed, so they make for pretty useless evidence of one’s orientation. >>>>Obviously it’s gotten worse or I wouldn’t have even searched for this article. I recently watched the movie Milk and I guess I felt some kind of movement in my groin, associated it with stimulation, and now I’m in the shit. —Good movie. >>>>I’ve become severely depressed and the question of, “am I actually gay?” will not leave my mind. These thoughts are accompanied by unwanted homosexual thoughts and frequent groinal responses (I believe this is because I am constantly focusing on penis for signs of stimulation) but never any actual erections. I’ve tried accepting the uncertainty and moving on, which worked for awhile, but now it’s back and it’s even worse. I notice attractive men, but I don’t feel an actual attraction. It’s like I’m caught in this spiral of “Oh, a naked man, I’m not attracted to him” and my thoughts will instantly turn to my penis to look for any signs of stimulation, which in turn causes a response in my penis. I’ve noticed my attraction to women has lessened, which scares the hell out of me. —-Sounds like you’re dealing with a lot of common symptoms of HOCD and have a decent understanding of the role groinal checking plays in all of this. >>>You suggested erp and I’d like to do my own because I’m not in any financial situation to see a specialist. Do you have any suggestions for doing my own erp? I know this is long but I’m just tired of it all. PS: I think I’ve narrowed my fears down to fear of being sexually attracted to men, which would mean (in my distorted mind) that I’m gay. This, in turn, would mean that the life I had pictured for myself is now ruined. —Well, I could make a lot of suggestions (some have been made in the blog articles), but you’d probably benefit most from some kind of structured plan. Since you can’t afford to see a specialist, I recommend using a workbook such as The OCD Workbook by Bruce Hyman, Freedom from OCD by Jonathan Grayson, or Imp of the Mind by Lee Baer. Exposures should be aimed at the idea that you may be attracted to men and that this may mean something about the likelihood of your pictured life falling apart. Probably the best way to do this is with imaginal erp scripts, but I would look to one of those books for technique ideas. Henry October 3, 2013 at 10:50 pm - Reply Thank you! You’re right, a more structured plan would benefit me the most. I’ve read about mindfulness and, as I said before, accepting uncertainty but it’s tough. It’s like this thing is attacking me and bullying me out of my sexuality. I feel like I have a bunch of FBI agents tearing apart my house and uncovering things I don’t want to feel or see. The worst thing is the doubt about everything I’ve based my sexuality on. I’m reading through some of these books and so far, “The OCD Workbook” seems to be my best chance. Also, what’s an “imaginal erp script” ? I’m unfamiliar with that concept. Again, thank you so much! Jonathan Hershfield October 6, 2013 at 3:58 pm - Reply An imaginal ERP script is a written or recorded exercise in which you describe and imagine your fears becoming true in order to do exposure to feared things that can’t be effectively done in real life. I’m not sure if they cover that in The OCD Workbook, but you can find various techniques for doing this in several ocd books and described online. Henry October 1, 2013 at 8:42 pm - Reply Hey, Jon, another one coming at you. I’m 18 and I’m pretty sure I’ve suffered from HOCD since grade 9. I always had fear of looking gay, acting gay, or sounding gay and changed my behaviour accordingly. The fear of being attracted to males was always on my mind, despite the fact that I have felt genuine attraction emotional and physical attraction to women (at the moment, my OCD-triggered doubt is telling me these attractions were meaningless and that I’m in denial). I believe it at all stemmed from when I had a few homosexual encounters when I was just a kid. They lessened as I got older and by the time I was 12/13 they had ceased altogether. I haven’t had the urge to do anything like that since. Like I said before, it was always a worry but one I could live with. Obviously it’s gotten worse or I wouldn’t have even searched for this article. I recently watched the movie Milk and I guess I felt some kind of movement in my groin, associated it with stimulation, and now I’m in the shit. I’ve become severely depressed and the question of, “am I actually gay?” will not leave my mind. These thoughts are accompanied by unwanted homosexual thoughts and frequent groinal responses (I believe this is because I am constantly focusing on penis for signs of stimulation) but never any actual erections. I’ve tried accepting the uncertainty and moving on, which worked for awhile, but now it’s back and it’s even worse. I notice attractive men, but I don’t feel an actual attraction. It’s like I’m caught in this spiral of “Oh, a naked man, I’m not attracted to him” and my thoughts will instantly turn to my penis to look for any signs of stimulation, which in turn causes a response in my penis. I’ve noticed my attraction to women has lessened, which scares the hell out of me. You suggested erp and I’d like to do my own because I’m not in any financial situation to see a specialist. Do you have any suggestions for doing my own erp? I know this is long but I’m just tired of it all. PS: I think I’ve narrowed my fears down to fear of being sexually attracted to men, which would mean (in my distorted mind) that I’m gay. This, in turn, would mean that the life I had pictured for myself is now ruined. Henry October 1, 2013 at 8:51 pm - Reply I’ve also been avoiding contact with males as well as any kind of pictures/movies with potentially unclothed males in fear of being attracted to them. It’s hard for me to even look other guys in the eye anymore. One last thing: No matter what I do, my attention immediately jumps to my penis as soon as any contact with another guy happens. Is this a compulsion? Jonathan Hershfield October 3, 2013 at 4:27 am - Reply Your ERP plan should definitely involve identifying and eliminating all of the avoidance. Avoidance sends the message to the brain that the thing you are avoiding is a threat. That’s it. It doesn’t ultimately make you feel certain or safe, just more avoidant. The automatic groinal checking is automatic, so I wouldn’t focus on stopping it directly. The compulsion you need to stop is the analysis of what you find after the automatic checking has occurred. That’s what leads to more checking. Jonathan Hershfield October 3, 2013 at 4:24 am - Reply >>>>Hey, Jon, another one coming at you. I’m 18 and I’m pretty sure I’ve suffered from HOCD since grade 9. I always had fear of looking gay, acting gay, or sounding gay and changed my behaviour accordingly. The fear of being attracted to males was always on my mind, despite the fact that I have felt genuine attraction emotional and physical attraction to women (at the moment, my OCD-triggered doubt is telling me these attractions were meaningless and that I’m in denial). I believe it at all stemmed from when I had a few homosexual encounters when I was just a kid. They lessened as I got older and by the time I was 12/13 they had ceased altogether. I haven’t had the urge to do anything like that since. Like I said before, it was always a worry but one I could live with. —-Sexual experiences before puberty by definition mean sexual experiences before the sexual mind has fully developed, so they make for pretty useless evidence of one’s orientation. >>>>Obviously it’s gotten worse or I wouldn’t have even searched for this article. I recently watched the movie Milk and I guess I felt some kind of movement in my groin, associated it with stimulation, and now I’m in the shit. —Good movie. >>>>I’ve become severely depressed and the question of, “am I actually gay?” will not leave my mind. These thoughts are accompanied by unwanted homosexual thoughts and frequent groinal responses (I believe this is because I am constantly focusing on penis for signs of stimulation) but never any actual erections. I’ve tried accepting the uncertainty and moving on, which worked for awhile, but now it’s back and it’s even worse. I notice attractive men, but I don’t feel an actual attraction. It’s like I’m caught in this spiral of “Oh, a naked man, I’m not attracted to him” and my thoughts will instantly turn to my penis to look for any signs of stimulation, which in turn causes a response in my penis. I’ve noticed my attraction to women has lessened, which scares the hell out of me. —-Sounds like you’re dealing with a lot of common symptoms of HOCD and have a decent understanding of the role groinal checking plays in all of this. >>>You suggested erp and I’d like to do my own because I’m not in any financial situation to see a specialist. Do you have any suggestions for doing my own erp? I know this is long but I’m just tired of it all. PS: I think I’ve narrowed my fears down to fear of being sexually attracted to men, which would mean (in my distorted mind) that I’m gay. This, in turn, would mean that the life I had pictured for myself is now ruined. —Well, I could make a lot of suggestions (some have been made in the blog articles), but you’d probably benefit most from some kind of structured plan. Since you can’t afford to see a specialist, I recommend using a workbook such as The OCD Workbook by Bruce Hyman, Freedom from OCD by Jonathan Grayson, or Imp of the Mind by Lee Baer. Exposures should be aimed at the idea that you may be attracted to men and that this may mean something about the likelihood of your pictured life falling apart. Probably the best way to do this is with imaginal erp scripts, but I would look to one of those books for technique ideas. Henry October 3, 2013 at 10:50 pm - Reply Thank you! You’re right, a more structured plan would benefit me the most. I’ve read about mindfulness and, as I said before, accepting uncertainty but it’s tough. It’s like this thing is attacking me and bullying me out of my sexuality. I feel like I have a bunch of FBI agents tearing apart my house and uncovering things I don’t want to feel or see. The worst thing is the doubt about everything I’ve based my sexuality on. I’m reading through some of these books and so far, “The OCD Workbook” seems to be my best chance. Also, what’s an “imaginal erp script” ? I’m unfamiliar with that concept. Again, thank you so much! Jonathan Hershfield October 6, 2013 at 3:58 pm - Reply An imaginal ERP script is a written or recorded exercise in which you describe and imagine your fears becoming true in order to do exposure to feared things that can’t be effectively done in real life. I’m not sure if they cover that in The OCD Workbook, but you can find various techniques for doing this in several ocd books and described online. Dee October 2, 2013 at 6:19 pm - Reply Hi, I am glad I read your article. Although it has left me with a great deal of concern. My son is 15 and admitted to me ha has been having some issues. Now, over the years he has made remarks like “I think I have OCD”, which I have kind of brushed off saying that feeling of uncertainty and anxiety are normal. In the end things will work out as they will, with or without him worrying about it…. I guess it was a mistake not to have investigated further, but nervousness and anxiety is something in my family and I was worried playing into his might be a bad idea. Well, the other day he told me he is really sure he has OCD, and lately it has been really bothering him. After a long talk he finally told me what the problem has been lately, as I guess it changes to different things for him. For the past 6 months or so he has been dealing with HOCD, He wouldn’t say much, only that he is straight, but keeps having intrusive thoughts he might be gay, even though he knows he is straight. I asked if that was why he never seemed to have any interest in girls, and he admitted that he spends so much time of his with the anxiety of these gay thoughts he can’t seem to interact with girls. it sounds like it has been very distressing for him. He has not been going out to movies with his friends like he use to and it seems to be having a huge affect on his life at a time he is suppose to be having fun and just being a teenager. Do you have any advice? I am trying to get him in to see someone, but because he is a minor, he is on a 8+ month waiting list to see a pediatric psychologist. Thank you Jonathan Hershfield October 3, 2013 at 4:47 am - Reply If he is interested in getting treatment for OCD, just make sure you get him set up with a therapist who specializes in the disorder. If he is able to articulate his experience well, you may even consider having him see a specialist online so he doesn’t have to wait so long. There is a known genetic component to OCD, so it’s not surprising to hear anxiety runs in your family. The first thing he needs to do is stop avoiding “normal” social behavior. He needs to understand that going out to the movies, even though it makes him uncomfortable because of the intrusive thoughts, is actually really important. Every time he avoids doing something like that, he sends a message to his brain that the thoughts are more important and have more power than him. You might check out http://www.ocfoundation.org for some info on OCD in teens that could be helpful. Dee October 2, 2013 at 6:19 pm - Reply Hi, I am glad I read your article. Although it has left me with a great deal of concern. My son is 15 and admitted to me ha has been having some issues. Now, over the years he has made remarks like “I think I have OCD”, which I have kind of brushed off saying that feeling of uncertainty and anxiety are normal. In the end things will work out as they will, with or without him worrying about it…. I guess it was a mistake not to have investigated further, but nervousness and anxiety is something in my family and I was worried playing into his might be a bad idea. Well, the other day he told me he is really sure he has OCD, and lately it has been really bothering him. After a long talk he finally told me what the problem has been lately, as I guess it changes to different things for him. For the past 6 months or so he has been dealing with HOCD, He wouldn’t say much, only that he is straight, but keeps having intrusive thoughts he might be gay, even though he knows he is straight. I asked if that was why he never seemed to have any interest in girls, and he admitted that he spends so much time of his with the anxiety of these gay thoughts he can’t seem to interact with girls. it sounds like it has been very distressing for him. He has not been going out to movies with his friends like he use to and it seems to be having a huge affect on his life at a time he is suppose to be having fun and just being a teenager. Do you have any advice? I am trying to get him in to see someone, but because he is a minor, he is on a 8+ month waiting list to see a pediatric psychologist. Thank you Jonathan Hershfield October 3, 2013 at 4:47 am - Reply If he is interested in getting treatment for OCD, just make sure you get him set up with a therapist who specializes in the disorder. If he is able to articulate his experience well, you may even consider having him see a specialist online so he doesn’t have to wait so long. There is a known genetic component to OCD, so it’s not surprising to hear anxiety runs in your family. The first thing he needs to do is stop avoiding “normal” social behavior. He needs to understand that going out to the movies, even though it makes him uncomfortable because of the intrusive thoughts, is actually really important. Every time he avoids doing something like that, he sends a message to his brain that the thoughts are more important and have more power than him. You might check out http://www.ocfoundation.org for some info on OCD in teens that could be helpful. Jim October 3, 2013 at 6:23 am - Reply This article helps me sleep and for that I am grateful. But, whenever i read an article like this I’m left with one last string connecting me to my problem. I’ve come to understand the reason behind the groinal response, for me at least, as well as what fuels my thoughts. I seem to focus on my groin constantly throughout the day and it will create either real or an anticipation of real reactions. In turn, i become unable to distract myself and a cycle ensues. My question is how am I supposed to distract myself once I trigger this synthetic feeling or, even more importantly, how do I stop focusing on my groin all day? It seems like I have it in the back of my mind 24/7 and I’m just waiting, anticipating the slightest sensation. I haven’t been so lucky as to have had a girlfriend throughout this experience and have gone a very long time without one. I seem to get anxiety from doubting my interest in women now far more than I find myself having intrusive thoughts of men. I have a foot fetish and it makes me feel different from other men. I constantly compare myself to the norm and feel that if I don’t fit the mold then I must be gay. This seems to be a far more complicated issue I deal with, but I thought maybe you could help shed some light on this and my issue with groin focusing. Jonathan Hershfield October 6, 2013 at 4:01 pm - Reply >>>>This article helps me sleep and for that I am grateful. But, whenever i read an article like this I’m left with one last string connecting me to my problem. I’ve come to understand the reason behind the groinal response, for me at least, as well as what fuels my thoughts. I seem to focus on my groin constantly throughout the day and it will create either real or an anticipation of real reactions. In turn, i become unable to distract myself and a cycle ensues. My question is how am I supposed to distract myself once I trigger this synthetic feeling or, even more importantly, how do I stop focusing on my groin all day? It seems like I have it in the back of my mind 24/7 and I’m just waiting, anticipating the slightest sensation. ——-The problem is with the idea that you need to distract yourself. If you are aware of groin, be aware of your groin. It is not the awareness that is the problem, but the judgment and analysis of what you find. >>>>I haven’t been so lucky as to have had a girlfriend throughout this experience and have gone a very long time without one. I seem to get anxiety from doubting my interest in women now far more than I find myself having intrusive thoughts of men. —This is common. >>>>I have a foot fetish and it makes me feel different from other men. —Not from the thousands of men with foot fetishes. >>>>I constantly compare myself to the norm and feel that if I don’t fit the mold then I must be gay. This seems to be a far more complicated issue I deal with, but I thought maybe you could help shed some light on this and my issue with groin focusing. —Comparing is a mental activity you are engaging in to try to get certainty that you are acceptable or not too far from “normal.” It’s a compulsion. The goal should be to acknowledge and accept yourself as you are and stop seeking labels. You should also challenge the distorted thought process behind “different=gay.” Jim October 3, 2013 at 6:23 am - Reply This article helps me sleep and for that I am grateful. But, whenever i read an article like this I’m left with one last string connecting me to my problem. I’ve come to understand the reason behind the groinal response, for me at least, as well as what fuels my thoughts. I seem to focus on my groin constantly throughout the day and it will create either real or an anticipation of real reactions. In turn, i become unable to distract myself and a cycle ensues. My question is how am I supposed to distract myself once I trigger this synthetic feeling or, even more importantly, how do I stop focusing on my groin all day? It seems like I have it in the back of my mind 24/7 and I’m just waiting, anticipating the slightest sensation. I haven’t been so lucky as to have had a girlfriend throughout this experience and have gone a very long time without one. I seem to get anxiety from doubting my interest in women now far more than I find myself having intrusive thoughts of men. I have a foot fetish and it makes me feel different from other men. I constantly compare myself to the norm and feel that if I don’t fit the mold then I must be gay. This seems to be a far more complicated issue I deal with, but I thought maybe you could help shed some light on this and my issue with groin focusing. Jonathan Hershfield October 6, 2013 at 4:01 pm - Reply >>>>This article helps me sleep and for that I am grateful. But, whenever i read an article like this I’m left with one last string connecting me to my problem. I’ve come to understand the reason behind the groinal response, for me at least, as well as what fuels my thoughts. I seem to focus on my groin constantly throughout the day and it will create either real or an anticipation of real reactions. In turn, i become unable to distract myself and a cycle ensues. My question is how am I supposed to distract myself once I trigger this synthetic feeling or, even more importantly, how do I stop focusing on my groin all day? It seems like I have it in the back of my mind 24/7 and I’m just waiting, anticipating the slightest sensation. ——-The problem is with the idea that you need to distract yourself. If you are aware of groin, be aware of your groin. It is not the awareness that is the problem, but the judgment and analysis of what you find. >>>>I haven’t been so lucky as to have had a girlfriend throughout this experience and have gone a very long time without one. I seem to get anxiety from doubting my interest in women now far more than I find myself having intrusive thoughts of men. —This is common. >>>>I have a foot fetish and it makes me feel different from other men. —Not from the thousands of men with foot fetishes. >>>>I constantly compare myself to the norm and feel that if I don’t fit the mold then I must be gay. This seems to be a far more complicated issue I deal with, but I thought maybe you could help shed some light on this and my issue with groin focusing. —Comparing is a mental activity you are engaging in to try to get certainty that you are acceptable or not too far from “normal.” It’s a compulsion. The goal should be to acknowledge and accept yourself as you are and stop seeking labels. You should also challenge the distorted thought process behind “different=gay.” Jim October 8, 2013 at 12:11 am - Reply Thank you for the response. I can see why me feeling different for having the fetish and jumping to the conclusion that I might be gay is a distorted process. It’s just such a deep seeded trigger. I hear how guys say that it’s breasts that really turn them on or some traditional body part and I think well if I’m not turned on by that then there is something wrong with me. It’s so easy to slip into checking by trying to force myself to notice these parts of women and feeling the anxiety when I’m not immediately aroused. With the foot fetish I always felt, not just different from the average person, but, different from the average hocd sufferer. I feel as though the foot isn’t much different between the two genders and that is a huge spike. I’ll have a “what if” and think what’s stopping me from having a homosexual foot fetish encounter with a man. What’s stopping all foot fetishists from being bisexual? Obviously the truth is that I don’t desire that and it sounds so rational now, but as you know, when the anxiety is bearing down it seems not only possible, but likely that I might desire that. One of the distorted thought processes I have is that if I don’t feel anything in my groin when I see a naked woman or even normal sex in general then I must like men. I have no clue what the average man feels when he sees that kind of material, but I seem to think it’s the equivalent to what I experience when I watch something in line with my fetish. I used to be aroused by simple things further back than I can remember, but I’ve had such consistent anxiety since I’ve matured that I’m not sure whether or not I have the capability. If I’m with a woman and she notices that I haven’t been turned on by her taking her shirt off or feeling her breasts, how does a self conscious person like me proceed without confessing my foot fetish right then and there? And I feel that most women’s first impression would be that I’m not attracted to women at all, which is healthy helping of fuel for the hocd fire. I’d like to believe that I’m capable of normal sex without the involvement of my fetish, but when it gets to the point in a sexual encounter where I’m expected to be turned on by certain things and I’m not necessarily, I really panic and performance anxiety takes hold. I do try to help myself beyond researching. I’ve thought about doing some ERP, but like I said, feet really do not have a gender and I can’t imagine how I would go about the therapy in order to find any kind of success. I’m sorry for creating a response and a lengthy one at that, but It’s amazing how much talking about these things and receiving feedback helps. I appreciate your time. Jonathan Hershfield October 9, 2013 at 5:57 pm - Reply >>>>Thank you for the response. I can see why me feeling different for having the fetish and jumping to the conclusion that I might be gay is a distorted process. It’s just such a deep seeded trigger. I hear how guys say that it’s breasts that really turn them on or some traditional body part and I think well if I’m not turned on by that then there is something wrong with me. —-It’s unknowable if “something is wrong” with you. How would we objectively assess what that even means? Until you accept the uncertainty and simply own that you like what you like, the OCD will keep pressuring you to analyze and compulse. >>>It’s so easy to slip into checking by trying to force myself to notice these parts of women and feeling the anxiety when I’m not immediately aroused. With the foot fetish I always felt, not just different from the average person, but, different from the average hocd sufferer. I feel as though the foot isn’t much different between the two genders and that is a huge spike. I’ll have a “what if” and think what’s stopping me from having a homosexual foot fetish encounter with a man. What’s stopping all foot fetishists from being bisexual? Obviously the truth is that I don’t desire that and it sounds so rational now, but as you know, when the anxiety is bearing down it seems not only possible, but likely that I might desire that. —So the question remains what kind of exposure w/ response prevention therapy are you doing for this obsession that your foot fetish means your gay? >>>>One of the distorted thought processes I have is that if I don’t feel anything in my groin when I see a naked woman or even normal sex in general then I must like men. I have no clue what the average man feels when he sees that kind of material, but I seem to think it’s the equivalent to what I experience when I watch something in line with my fetish. —I can’t comment on what a person is “supposed” to feel, but a lot of HOCD sufferers tell me they are concerned because they don;t have significant groinal responses to things they think they are a supposed to. I think if you’re straight and a beautiful woman walks by you and you suddenly sprout a giant erection, you are either 13 years old or have a blood pressure problem. Monitoring your responses leads to obsessing, that is all. >>>I used to be aroused by simple things further back than I can remember, but I’ve had such consistent anxiety since I’ve matured that I’m not sure whether or not I have the capability. If I’m with a woman and she notices that I haven’t been turned on by her taking her shirt off or feeling her breasts, how does a self conscious person like me proceed without confessing my foot fetish right then and there? And I feel that most women’s first impression would be that I’m not attracted to women at all, which is healthy helping of fuel for the hocd fire. I’d like to believe that I’m capable of normal sex without the involvement of my fetish, but when it gets to the point in a sexual encounter where I’m expected to be turned on by certain things and I’m not necessarily, I really panic and performance anxiety takes hold. —There are therapists who specialize in helping people better understand and accept their fetishes. How to disclose this to someone in a relationship is not something I specialize in, but I can tell you that you are probably over-pathologizing something that is pretty common and has nothing to do with orientation. >>>I do try to help myself beyond researching. I’ve thought about doing some ERP, but like I said, feet really do not have a gender and I can’t imagine how I would go about the therapy in order to find any kind of success. I’m sorry for creating a response and a lengthy one at that, but It’s amazing how much talking about these things and receiving feedback helps. I appreciate your time. —Well, in treatment, you would probably look at pictures of men’s feet and practice telling yourself that it’s a turn-on without trying to neutralize the anxiety this causes. Or you could write imaginal exposure stories about how your foot fetish makes you gay. The best approach would be to work with an ocd specialists on it and come up with a semi-structured plan. Jim October 8, 2013 at 12:11 am - Reply Thank you for the response. I can see why me feeling different for having the fetish and jumping to the conclusion that I might be gay is a distorted process. It’s just such a deep seeded trigger. I hear how guys say that it’s breasts that really turn them on or some traditional body part and I think well if I’m not turned on by that then there is something wrong with me. It’s so easy to slip into checking by trying to force myself to notice these parts of women and feeling the anxiety when I’m not immediately aroused. With the foot fetish I always felt, not just different from the average person, but, different from the average hocd sufferer. I feel as though the foot isn’t much different between the two genders and that is a huge spike. I’ll have a “what if” and think what’s stopping me from having a homosexual foot fetish encounter with a man. What’s stopping all foot fetishists from being bisexual? Obviously the truth is that I don’t desire that and it sounds so rational now, but as you know, when the anxiety is bearing down it seems not only possible, but likely that I might desire that. One of the distorted thought processes I have is that if I don’t feel anything in my groin when I see a naked woman or even normal sex in general then I must like men. I have no clue what the average man feels when he sees that kind of material, but I seem to think it’s the equivalent to what I experience when I watch something in line with my fetish. I used to be aroused by simple things further back than I can remember, but I’ve had such consistent anxiety since I’ve matured that I’m not sure whether or not I have the capability. If I’m with a woman and she notices that I haven’t been turned on by her taking her shirt off or feeling her breasts, how does a self conscious person like me proceed without confessing my foot fetish right then and there? And I feel that most women’s first impression would be that I’m not attracted to women at all, which is healthy helping of fuel for the hocd fire. I’d like to believe that I’m capable of normal sex without the involvement of my fetish, but when it gets to the point in a sexual encounter where I’m expected to be turned on by certain things and I’m not necessarily, I really panic and performance anxiety takes hold. I do try to help myself beyond researching. I’ve thought about doing some ERP, but like I said, feet really do not have a gender and I can’t imagine how I would go about the therapy in order to find any kind of success. I’m sorry for creating a response and a lengthy one at that, but It’s amazing how much talking about these things and receiving feedback helps. I appreciate your time. Jonathan Hershfield October 9, 2013 at 5:57 pm - Reply >>>>Thank you for the response. I can see why me feeling different for having the fetish and jumping to the conclusion that I might be gay is a distorted process. It’s just such a deep seeded trigger. I hear how guys say that it’s breasts that really turn them on or some traditional body part and I think well if I’m not turned on by that then there is something wrong with me. —-It’s unknowable if “something is wrong” with you. How would we objectively assess what that even means? Until you accept the uncertainty and simply own that you like what you like, the OCD will keep pressuring you to analyze and compulse. >>>It’s so easy to slip into checking by trying to force myself to notice these parts of women and feeling the anxiety when I’m not immediately aroused. With the foot fetish I always felt, not just different from the average person, but, different from the average hocd sufferer. I feel as though the foot isn’t much different between the two genders and that is a huge spike. I’ll have a “what if” and think what’s stopping me from having a homosexual foot fetish encounter with a man. What’s stopping all foot fetishists from being bisexual? Obviously the truth is that I don’t desire that and it sounds so rational now, but as you know, when the anxiety is bearing down it seems not only possible, but likely that I might desire that. —So the question remains what kind of exposure w/ response prevention therapy are you doing for this obsession that your foot fetish means your gay? >>>>One of the distorted thought processes I have is that if I don’t feel anything in my groin when I see a naked woman or even normal sex in general then I must like men. I have no clue what the average man feels when he sees that kind of material, but I seem to think it’s the equivalent to what I experience when I watch something in line with my fetish. —I can’t comment on what a person is “supposed” to feel, but a lot of HOCD sufferers tell me they are concerned because they don;t have significant groinal responses to things they think they are a supposed to. I think if you’re straight and a beautiful woman walks by you and you suddenly sprout a giant erection, you are either 13 years old or have a blood pressure problem. Monitoring your responses leads to obsessing, that is all. >>>I used to be aroused by simple things further back than I can remember, but I’ve had such consistent anxiety since I’ve matured that I’m not sure whether or not I have the capability. If I’m with a woman and she notices that I haven’t been turned on by her taking her shirt off or feeling her breasts, how does a self conscious person like me proceed without confessing my foot fetish right then and there? And I feel that most women’s first impression would be that I’m not attracted to women at all, which is healthy helping of fuel for the hocd fire. I’d like to believe that I’m capable of normal sex without the involvement of my fetish, but when it gets to the point in a sexual encounter where I’m expected to be turned on by certain things and I’m not necessarily, I really panic and performance anxiety takes hold. —There are therapists who specialize in helping people better understand and accept their fetishes. How to disclose this to someone in a relationship is not something I specialize in, but I can tell you that you are probably over-pathologizing something that is pretty common and has nothing to do with orientation. >>>I do try to help myself beyond researching. I’ve thought about doing some ERP, but like I said, feet really do not have a gender and I can’t imagine how I would go about the therapy in order to find any kind of success. I’m sorry for creating a response and a lengthy one at that, but It’s amazing how much talking about these things and receiving feedback helps. I appreciate your time. —Well, in treatment, you would probably look at pictures of men’s feet and practice telling yourself that it’s a turn-on without trying to neutralize the anxiety this causes. Or you could write imaginal exposure stories about how your foot fetish makes you gay. The best approach would be to work with an ocd specialists on it and come up with a semi-structured plan. Thomas October 8, 2013 at 7:46 pm - Reply First I want to make an excuse for my English! Nice Blog! I think I have HOCD for 5 months now. It’s so strange it tackles me because I was always (extremly) into Girls. Mabye to much, to be honest I am having a ‘jerk off’ addiction for at least 4 years. Is it possible that this is a reason why I suffer from HOCD? I am unhappy so often… I have such a nice girlfriend. It seems to spoil so much fun. I am contantly checking if I am getting aroused by gay fantasy’s .. I don’t even know if it is a good idea to tell my girlfriend about HOCD, I don’t want to scare her of or someting.. I just don;t know what to do… Jonathan Hershfield October 9, 2013 at 6:31 pm - Reply >>>>I think I have HOCD for 5 months now. It’s so strange it tackles me because I was always (extremly) into Girls. Mabye to much, to be honest I am having a ‘jerk off’ addiction for at least 4 years. Is it possible that this is a reason why I suffer from HOCD? —OCD tends to to target things that are of high value, so if you have a sex or masturbation addiction, you may be particularly predisposed to developing an obsession with something that threatens your ability to enjoy those things. >>>>I am unhappy so often… I have such a nice girlfriend. It seems to spoil so much fun. I am contantly checking if I am getting aroused by gay fantasy’s .. I don’t even know if it is a good idea to tell my girlfriend about HOCD, I don’t want to scare her of or someting.. I just don;t know what to do… —-You need to recognize that the checking and testing of fantasies is a compulsion that is fueling, not resolving, your obsession. It’s up to you if you want to hare the content of your obsession with your girlfriend, but in any case I recommend getting treatment for your ocd from someone who specializes in it if you can. Thomas October 8, 2013 at 7:46 pm - Reply First I want to make an excuse for my English! Nice Blog! I think I have HOCD for 5 months now. It’s so strange it tackles me because I was always (extremly) into Girls. Mabye to much, to be honest I am having a ‘jerk off’ addiction for at least 4 years. Is it possible that this is a reason why I suffer from HOCD? I am unhappy so often… I have such a nice girlfriend. It seems to spoil so much fun. I am contantly checking if I am getting aroused by gay fantasy’s .. I don’t even know if it is a good idea to tell my girlfriend about HOCD, I don’t want to scare her of or someting.. I just don;t know what to do… Jonathan Hershfield October 9, 2013 at 6:31 pm - Reply >>>>I think I have HOCD for 5 months now. It’s so strange it tackles me because I was always (extremly) into Girls. Mabye to much, to be honest I am having a ‘jerk off’ addiction for at least 4 years. Is it possible that this is a reason why I suffer from HOCD? —OCD tends to to target things that are of high value, so if you have a sex or masturbation addiction, you may be particularly predisposed to developing an obsession with something that threatens your ability to enjoy those things. >>>>I am unhappy so often… I have such a nice girlfriend. It seems to spoil so much fun. I am contantly checking if I am getting aroused by gay fantasy’s .. I don’t even know if it is a good idea to tell my girlfriend about HOCD, I don’t want to scare her of or someting.. I just don;t know what to do… —-You need to recognize that the checking and testing of fantasies is a compulsion that is fueling, not resolving, your obsession. It’s up to you if you want to hare the content of your obsession with your girlfriend, but in any case I recommend getting treatment for your ocd from someone who specializes in it if you can. Mexican TOC October 9, 2013 at 6:27 pm - Reply Dear John, Hope you are fine! very busy it seems. Your trouble to answer to all these people is very admirable, congratulations! I belive ive been suffering with OCD since a child in varous forms, mainly subsequent to a irrelevant same sex experience when i was about 12 years old which terrified me. I have many silly rituals, counting, repeating phrases, such as ” i know very well on the holy deep down that im not gay” I reckon that phrase is cerca 1981 ! I sometimes say similar phrases when i get gay thoughts or i hit my head, neck, or other objects, or count numbers which have a special significance. it seems to get rid of the anxiety associated with the thoughts . I have periods when the thoughts are pretty much non -existent and others when they bombard me all the time. The thoughts are usually kind of blurred, not graphic , just like a very abstract notion with feelings of tense energy in my body (anxiety i guess) .The intrusive thoughts started at uni (kissing thoughts, nothing sexual ). I have never got aroused, erection etc with these thoughts , maybe just a faint groinal response . I easily get turned on by women, my wife, female porn etc, and never by male stuff (although ive never really tried either!) Recently thoughts of oral sex bombard my mind all day, which is very annoying, distracting, and stressful . I only have to move and one of these thoughts appear, I try to accept them but they feel so real , well the stress and buzzing sensation all over my body feels real, not so much the images as they arent always images just faint notions , very weird. Recently i try to envisage me having oral sex and analysing if i enjoy it or not, which is more difficult than you can imagine. I get feelings of tense nervous energy all over , then maybe relaxing sensation (maybe cos since birth sucking anything relaxes us) but never sexual arousal , erection, horniness . I believe many times i have confused thenervous energy , tense feelings as sexual arousal, although when im sexually aroused it is a much stronger feeling. I even get oral thought with bloody objects! ,can you believe that. These thoughts wouldnt bother me once in a while but all the time, the incessant bombardment reallt tires me out! I have written before and explained i have a lovely baby boy, and these ideas have latched on to him which is the worst of the worst, I only have to touch his nappy when changing, or when im putting rash cream on his butt i get anxious and my mind says “you liked it” or ” you really want to put your finger in his bum” oh my god. It seems the fact that i dont want to do it , or its something prohibited, this gives me like an urge to do something, kind of like a compulsion. But of course i would never ever do anyhting like that, but the thoughts make me think i want to or i enjoy thinking it. Or touching his skin feels nice and so my mind says , “you are a paedo cos you like touching his skin” (it feels nice thats all, i never get feelings of arousal) God i sometimes get stressed just touching my beautiful baby cos my mind says “you like that didnt you” I spend a lot of time analysing after these thoughts to see whether i really felt any kind of pleasure”. I have heard that analysing thoughts can distort how you feel them anyway, is this right?Where does my oral sex fettish, obsession come from? maybe i had a gay thought once or imagined something, i got really scared, did a compulsion (like grabbing my groin) and then it stuck. i…ive had this particular thought for about 20 years! Is that possible? to have this kind of thoughts and sensations for that long, off and on? Any man , baby child object i see i get the damn thoughts! ridiculous i know! Now, i try to relax and say to myself ” ill try to accept ny sensations, urges , thoughts ” (in fact ive just said it! i say it even without the thoughts sometimes just to reduce stress) its become so habitual. Has the phrase become a compulsion? I think i say it hundreds of times a day. It helps a bit but the stress increases and thoughts and i have to say it agian and agian and again. I get different thoughts at different periods, sometimes its like a bum sensation (makes me laugh) other times a slight groinal sensation or this stronger oral thought) And sometimes i enter a horrible “am i gay” cycle, researching stuff , convincing myself i dont like the oral thoughts etc. …If i start going over my past and rembering past obsessions thoughts and feelings from over the last 30 years i just get to a dead end and get very depressed, so i try not to do that! then i think how can i be gay, and at the same time get horny with pretty women, with my wife, looking at females etc, fantasizing, etc I cant remeber ever getting an erection with a man or fantasizing about men , even less masturbating, although sometimes during sex or masturbating gay thoughts or images enter my head .But the really annoying thoughtd are these bloody (sorry about the swearing!) oral thoughts . I say maybe i like sucking penises a bit , so what? , but then i think, but you only feel anxious and a bit relaxed ….WTF that is not sexual arousal is it? and even if i liked it a bit , it wouldnt mean im gay would it, with all the horniness i get with women? I have let these thoughts affect my life for a long time, (most of this time having no idea that i might have OCD even though my mom has severe OCD….how weird is that? how come i didnt realize?)Any situation and my mind has this “background noise” connected to gayness in my head. Like a bully ( i was taunted at school when i was about 10 just for giving my best friend a kiss on his cheek….nothing sexual.) Maybe this and an ingrained gay fear are the roots to all these obsessions. Anyway , i am serously thinking of travelling to LA and gettign treatment (i saw a supposedly cbt nurse in the uk which helped a bit but not that much!) and a psychiatrist that i pay every month here in Mexico to say ” they are just uninportant thoughts ” which helps a bit! Sadly very few people in mexico know what CBT is. Anyway thanks for listening again, any tips welcome for the thoughts please! You are a great bloke helping all these suffering people! Have nice weekend ! saludos! Jonathan Hershfield October 9, 2013 at 6:47 pm - Reply Hello, you describe a long history with OCD and a lot of common obsessions and compulsions. The general response I have to your post is that you need to stop engaging in mental and physical strategies to convince yourself your fears are false and instead accept that these are the thoughts going through your head. I’m not sure what question you specifically want me to answer, but it certainly sounds like you have not had adequate treatment to date and I recommend you see an ocd specialist. You can probably see one online in the US if you can’t find one locally. Mexican TOC October 9, 2013 at 6:27 pm - Reply Dear John, Hope you are fine! very busy it seems. Your trouble to answer to all these people is very admirable, congratulations! I belive ive been suffering with OCD since a child in varous forms, mainly subsequent to a irrelevant same sex experience when i was about 12 years old which terrified me. I have many silly rituals, counting, repeating phrases, such as ” i know very well on the holy deep down that im not gay” I reckon that phrase is cerca 1981 ! I sometimes say similar phrases when i get gay thoughts or i hit my head, neck, or other objects, or count numbers which have a special significance. it seems to get rid of the anxiety associated with the thoughts . I have periods when the thoughts are pretty much non -existent and others when they bombard me all the time. The thoughts are usually kind of blurred, not graphic , just like a very abstract notion with feelings of tense energy in my body (anxiety i guess) .The intrusive thoughts started at uni (kissing thoughts, nothing sexual ). I have never got aroused, erection etc with these thoughts , maybe just a faint groinal response . I easily get turned on by women, my wife, female porn etc, and never by male stuff (although ive never really tried either!) Recently thoughts of oral sex bombard my mind all day, which is very annoying, distracting, and stressful . I only have to move and one of these thoughts appear, I try to accept them but they feel so real , well the stress and buzzing sensation all over my body feels real, not so much the images as they arent always images just faint notions , very weird. Recently i try to envisage me having oral sex and analysing if i enjoy it or not, which is more difficult than you can imagine. I get feelings of tense nervous energy all over , then maybe relaxing sensation (maybe cos since birth sucking anything relaxes us) but never sexual arousal , erection, horniness . I believe many times i have confused thenervous energy , tense feelings as sexual arousal, although when im sexually aroused it is a much stronger feeling. I even get oral thought with bloody objects! ,can you believe that. These thoughts wouldnt bother me once in a while but all the time, the incessant bombardment reallt tires me out! I have written before and explained i have a lovely baby boy, and these ideas have latched on to him which is the worst of the worst, I only have to touch his nappy when changing, or when im putting rash cream on his butt i get anxious and my mind says “you liked it” or ” you really want to put your finger in his bum” oh my god. It seems the fact that i dont want to do it , or its something prohibited, this gives me like an urge to do something, kind of like a compulsion. But of course i would never ever do anyhting like that, but the thoughts make me think i want to or i enjoy thinking it. Or touching his skin feels nice and so my mind says , “you are a paedo cos you like touching his skin” (it feels nice thats all, i never get feelings of arousal) God i sometimes get stressed just touching my beautiful baby cos my mind says “you like that didnt you” I spend a lot of time analysing after these thoughts to see whether i really felt any kind of pleasure”. I have heard that analysing thoughts can distort how you feel them anyway, is this right?Where does my oral sex fettish, obsession come from? maybe i had a gay thought once or imagined something, i got really scared, did a compulsion (like grabbing my groin) and then it stuck. i…ive had this particular thought for about 20 years! Is that possible? to have this kind of thoughts and sensations for that long, off and on? Any man , baby child object i see i get the damn thoughts! ridiculous i know! Now, i try to relax and say to myself ” ill try to accept ny sensations, urges , thoughts ” (in fact ive just said it! i say it even without the thoughts sometimes just to reduce stress) its become so habitual. Has the phrase become a compulsion? I think i say it hundreds of times a day. It helps a bit but the stress increases and thoughts and i have to say it agian and agian and again. I get different thoughts at different periods, sometimes its like a bum sensation (makes me laugh) other times a slight groinal sensation or this stronger oral thought) And sometimes i enter a horrible “am i gay” cycle, researching stuff , convincing myself i dont like the oral thoughts etc. …If i start going over my past and rembering past obsessions thoughts and feelings from over the last 30 years i just get to a dead end and get very depressed, so i try not to do that! then i think how can i be gay, and at the same time get horny with pretty women, with my wife, looking at females etc, fantasizing, etc I cant remeber ever getting an erection with a man or fantasizing about men , even less masturbating, although sometimes during sex or masturbating gay thoughts or images enter my head .But the really annoying thoughtd are these bloody (sorry about the swearing!) oral thoughts . I say maybe i like sucking penises a bit , so what? , but then i think, but you only feel anxious and a bit relaxed ….WTF that is not sexual arousal is it? and even if i liked it a bit , it wouldnt mean im gay would it, with all the horniness i get with women? I have let these thoughts affect my life for a long time, (most of this time having no idea that i might have OCD even though my mom has severe OCD….how weird is that? how come i didnt realize?)Any situation and my mind has this “background noise” connected to gayness in my head. Like a bully ( i was taunted at school when i was about 10 just for giving my best friend a kiss on his cheek….nothing sexual.) Maybe this and an ingrained gay fear are the roots to all these obsessions. Anyway , i am serously thinking of travelling to LA and gettign treatment (i saw a supposedly cbt nurse in the uk which helped a bit but not that much!) and a psychiatrist that i pay every month here in Mexico to say ” they are just uninportant thoughts ” which helps a bit! Sadly very few people in mexico know what CBT is. Anyway thanks for listening again, any tips welcome for the thoughts please! You are a great bloke helping all these suffering people! Have nice weekend ! saludos! Jonathan Hershfield October 9, 2013 at 6:47 pm - Reply Hello, you describe a long history with OCD and a lot of common obsessions and compulsions. The general response I have to your post is that you need to stop engaging in mental and physical strategies to convince yourself your fears are false and instead accept that these are the thoughts going through your head. I’m not sure what question you specifically want me to answer, but it certainly sounds like you have not had adequate treatment to date and I recommend you see an ocd specialist. You can probably see one online in the US if you can’t find one locally. Jay October 10, 2013 at 3:22 am - Reply It’s funny, one of my biggest compulsions WAS checking websites to make sure I match the description for OCD/HOCD over, and over, and over… this is the first time in a few years and I did it merely out of curiosity – not a response to anything in particular. I suffered from this for years. For me, I’m not sure if it will ever go away 100%, but it does not cause the intense physical anxiety that it did before. Enough to where I can live a normal life, talk to girls, talk with the gay barista at Starbucks and feel relatively low anxiety on a day-to-day basis. I laugh at it now and it’s like an old friend. I’ve confirmed my straightness by sleeping with many women… only… I have OCD so it actually doesn’t confirm anything. I could sleep with every Victoria’s secret model in the catalog and I’d still worry that I didn’t enjoy it enough, didn’t climax fast enough, [fill it your favorite HOCD thought here]. And if I didn’t worry about being gay, I promise you I’d find SOMETHING to worry about. I’m an engineering student and there was actually a point in my life where I thought writing neatly made you gay. I tried to not write as neatly – it made me mess up my math homework so I had to suck it up and write neatly. Crazy, huh? OCD (and hence, HOCD as they are the same thinking process – different thoughts) is like a whack-a-mole machine: thought pops up, you whack it down as hard as you can… wash, rinse, repeat. Learn to pull the plug on the machine and this will help solve all of your problems, not those related to your taboo thoughts (or your gay handwriting thoughts – that is definitely one of my favorites). Jonathan Hershfield October 14, 2013 at 3:18 am - Reply >>>>I suffered from this for years. For me, I’m not sure if it will ever go away 100%, but it does not cause the intense physical anxiety that it did before. Enough to where I can live a normal life, talk to girls, talk with the gay barista at Starbucks and feel relatively low anxiety on a day-to-day basis. I laugh at it now and it’s like an old friend. —-I’d be suspicious of any belief I held at 100% certainty. >>>>I’ve confirmed my straightness by sleeping with many women… only… I have OCD so it actually doesn’t confirm anything. I could sleep with every Victoria’s secret model in the catalog and I’d still worry that I didn’t enjoy it enough, didn’t climax fast enough, [fill it your favorite HOCD thought here]. And if I didn’t worry about being gay, I promise you I’d find SOMETHING to worry about. —-Yep, that’s how it works. But I’d suggest at least trying to sleep with all the VS models just in case. >>>I’m an engineering student and there was actually a point in my life where I thought writing neatly made you gay. I tried to not write as neatly – it made me mess up my math homework so I had to suck it up and write neatly. Crazy, huh? —I’ve heard crazier compulsions than that for sure! >>>OCD (and hence, HOCD as they are the same thinking process – different thoughts) is like a whack-a-mole machine: thought pops up, you whack it down as hard as you can… wash, rinse, repeat. Learn to pull the plug on the machine and this will help solve all of your problems, not those related to your taboo thoughts (or your gay handwriting thoughts – that is definitely one of my favorites). —The thing about whack-a-mole that people always forget is that you actually do get better at it with practice. It’s just that the practice needs to be exposure, not compulsions. Jay October 10, 2013 at 3:22 am - Reply It’s funny, one of my biggest compulsions WAS checking websites to make sure I match the description for OCD/HOCD over, and over, and over… this is the first time in a few years and I did it merely out of curiosity – not a response to anything in particular. I suffered from this for years. For me, I’m not sure if it will ever go away 100%, but it does not cause the intense physical anxiety that it did before. Enough to where I can live a normal life, talk to girls, talk with the gay barista at Starbucks and feel relatively low anxiety on a day-to-day basis. I laugh at it now and it’s like an old friend. I’ve confirmed my straightness by sleeping with many women… only… I have OCD so it actually doesn’t confirm anything. I could sleep with every Victoria’s secret model in the catalog and I’d still worry that I didn’t enjoy it enough, didn’t climax fast enough, [fill it your favorite HOCD thought here]. And if I didn’t worry about being gay, I promise you I’d find SOMETHING to worry about. I’m an engineering student and there was actually a point in my life where I thought writing neatly made you gay. I tried to not write as neatly – it made me mess up my math homework so I had to suck it up and write neatly. Crazy, huh? OCD (and hence, HOCD as they are the same thinking process – different thoughts) is like a whack-a-mole machine: thought pops up, you whack it down as hard as you can… wash, rinse, repeat. Learn to pull the plug on the machine and this will help solve all of your problems, not those related to your taboo thoughts (or your gay handwriting thoughts – that is definitely one of my favorites). Jonathan Hershfield October 14, 2013 at 3:18 am - Reply >>>>I suffered from this for years. For me, I’m not sure if it will ever go away 100%, but it does not cause the intense physical anxiety that it did before. Enough to where I can live a normal life, talk to girls, talk with the gay barista at Starbucks and feel relatively low anxiety on a day-to-day basis. I laugh at it now and it’s like an old friend. —-I’d be suspicious of any belief I held at 100% certainty. >>>>I’ve confirmed my straightness by sleeping with many women… only… I have OCD so it actually doesn’t confirm anything. I could sleep with every Victoria’s secret model in the catalog and I’d still worry that I didn’t enjoy it enough, didn’t climax fast enough, [fill it your favorite HOCD thought here]. And if I didn’t worry about being gay, I promise you I’d find SOMETHING to worry about. —-Yep, that’s how it works. But I’d suggest at least trying to sleep with all the VS models just in case. >>>I’m an engineering student and there was actually a point in my life where I thought writing neatly made you gay. I tried to not write as neatly – it made me mess up my math homework so I had to suck it up and write neatly. Crazy, huh? —I’ve heard crazier compulsions than that for sure! >>>OCD (and hence, HOCD as they are the same thinking process – different thoughts) is like a whack-a-mole machine: thought pops up, you whack it down as hard as you can… wash, rinse, repeat. Learn to pull the plug on the machine and this will help solve all of your problems, not those related to your taboo thoughts (or your gay handwriting thoughts – that is definitely one of my favorites). —The thing about whack-a-mole that people always forget is that you actually do get better at it with practice. It’s just that the practice needs to be exposure, not compulsions. Bill October 11, 2013 at 12:15 pm - Reply Greetings! So I noticed in an earlier comment you mentioned imaginal erp scripts as an effective form of treatment for HOCD and it sounds terrifying! My problem is that I get frequent groinal responses around men, when I see men without shirts on, or even when I say certain words like “gay”, “dick”, etc. (One of the worst cases was when I was watching the animated movie Mulan and I got a groinal response after one of the male characters removed their shirt! WHAT THE HELL?!) I don’t know how to describe these responses…it’s like yes, there is something there but it’s never progresses to a full out erection. So I guess my main worry is just that I’m attracted to men but I don’t know if I can write scripts about that…what if I actually like it? What if I get a full out boner while writing them? I’m just so scared to even try… Also, if it helps any, a little history: I’ve never been big into playing the field with girls. That drive that other guys have just doesn’t seem to be in me. I’m painfully shy when it comes to girls and usually wait until they show an ample amount of interest before doing anything. I’ve been in a few relationships but I’ve also turned down many. I know I’ve felt emotionally, physically, and sexually attracted to girls but it all feels so meaningless after being pummeled by this possible HOCD. Anyways, recently I lost my virginity and I think this is one of the issues. There were times when I craved sex with this girl and other times when I just didn’t want it. I don’t know if my libido is weak or something but it definitely didn’t help. I’ve heard all these stories about how guys are supposed to want sex all the time and it’s killing me. The worst instance came when this girl and I were trying to have sex and I couldn’t stay hard…no matter what I did it just wouldn’t work. The next day everything went fine and I was able to perform no problem but it just stuck with me…and then the groinal responses started to happen and with them came an onslaught of gay thoughts and images. Now I’m doubting any attraction to women at all because I don’t feel the right things when I see them. Why am I getting these responses to guys and nothing to girls? My sex drive has dropped to almost nothing and when it shows up I’m scared to masturbate in case these thoughts pop up. Goddammit, I’m sick and tired of it all. Sorry for babbling on, I just needed to get all of it out there. Jonathan Hershfield October 14, 2013 at 3:32 am - Reply >>>>Greetings! So I noticed in an earlier comment you mentioned imaginal erp scripts as an effective form of treatment for HOCD and it sounds terrifying! My problem is that I get frequent groinal responses around men, when I see men without shirts on, or even when I say certain words like “gay”, “dick”, etc. (One of the worst cases was when I was watching the animated movie Mulan and I got a groinal response after one of the male characters removed their shirt! WHAT THE HELL?!) I don’t know how to describe these responses…it’s like yes, there is something there but it’s never progresses to a full out erection. So I guess my main worry is just that I’m attracted to men but I don’t know if I can write scripts about that…what if I actually like it? What if I get a full out boner while writing them? I’m just so scared to even try… —Imaginal scripting can be very challenging and is best done with the guidance of an ocd therapist. It is common for people to get groinal responses to writing about sexual acts, whether they are enjoyable or not. As long as you are in the business of trying to avoid what you fear you could enjoy, you will keep being plagued by intrusive thoughts about enjoying the “wrong” things. >>>>Also, if it helps any, a little history: I’ve never been big into playing the field with girls. That drive that other guys have just doesn’t seem to be in me. I’m painfully shy when it comes to girls and usually wait until they show an ample amount of interest before doing anything. I’ve been in a few relationships but I’ve also turned down many. I know I’ve felt emotionally, physically, and sexually attracted to girls but it all feels so meaningless after being pummeled by this possible HOCD. —I often see a combo of HOCD and social anxiety. The combination of feeling shy or uncomfortable with girls alongside the obsessive thoughts that come with ocd make for a hard time. >>>>Anyways, recently I lost my virginity and I think this is one of the issues. There were times when I craved sex with this girl and other times when I just didn’t want it. I don’t know if my libido is weak or something but it definitely didn’t help. I’ve heard all these stories about how guys are supposed to want sex all the time and it’s killing me. —That’s mythology. Different people have different sex drives. People with anxiety often have anxiety around sex and this often affects libido. >>>>The worst instance came when this girl and I were trying to have sex and I couldn’t stay hard…no matter what I did it just wouldn’t work. The next day everything went fine and I was able to perform no problem but it just stuck with me…and then the groinal responses started to happen and with them came an onslaught of gay thoughts and images. Now I’m doubting any attraction to women at all because I don’t feel the right things when I see them. Why am I getting these responses to guys and nothing to girls? My sex drive has dropped to almost nothing and when it shows up I’m scared to masturbate in case these thoughts pop up. Goddammit, I’m sick and tired of it all. Sorry for babbling on, I just needed to get all of it out there. —-Avoidance doesn’t work. It just sends the message to the brain that the thing you are avoiding is dangerous. It would be better to masturbate and accept that you may get some unwanted thoughts on your radar in the process. Anyway, my recommendation is to see a therapist who is experienced in treating social anxiety and OCD. Bill October 11, 2013 at 12:15 pm - Reply Greetings! So I noticed in an earlier comment you mentioned imaginal erp scripts as an effective form of treatment for HOCD and it sounds terrifying! My problem is that I get frequent groinal responses around men, when I see men without shirts on, or even when I say certain words like “gay”, “dick”, etc. (One of the worst cases was when I was watching the animated movie Mulan and I got a groinal response after one of the male characters removed their shirt! WHAT THE HELL?!) I don’t know how to describe these responses…it’s like yes, there is something there but it’s never progresses to a full out erection. So I guess my main worry is just that I’m attracted to men but I don’t know if I can write scripts about that…what if I actually like it? What if I get a full out boner while writing them? I’m just so scared to even try… Also, if it helps any, a little history: I’ve never been big into playing the field with girls. That drive that other guys have just doesn’t seem to be in me. I’m painfully shy when it comes to girls and usually wait until they show an ample amount of interest before doing anything. I’ve been in a few relationships but I’ve also turned down many. I know I’ve felt emotionally, physically, and sexually attracted to girls but it all feels so meaningless after being pummeled by this possible HOCD. Anyways, recently I lost my virginity and I think this is one of the issues. There were times when I craved sex with this girl and other times when I just didn’t want it. I don’t know if my libido is weak or something but it definitely didn’t help. I’ve heard all these stories about how guys are supposed to want sex all the time and it’s killing me. The worst instance came when this girl and I were trying to have sex and I couldn’t stay hard…no matter what I did it just wouldn’t work. The next day everything went fine and I was able to perform no problem but it just stuck with me…and then the groinal responses started to happen and with them came an onslaught of gay thoughts and images. Now I’m doubting any attraction to women at all because I don’t feel the right things when I see them. Why am I getting these responses to guys and nothing to girls? My sex drive has dropped to almost nothing and when it shows up I’m scared to masturbate in case these thoughts pop up. Goddammit, I’m sick and tired of it all. Sorry for babbling on, I just needed to get all of it out there. Jonathan Hershfield October 14, 2013 at 3:32 am - Reply >>>>Greetings! So I noticed in an earlier comment you mentioned imaginal erp scripts as an effective form of treatment for HOCD and it sounds terrifying! My problem is that I get frequent groinal responses around men, when I see men without shirts on, or even when I say certain words like “gay”, “dick”, etc. (One of the worst cases was when I was watching the animated movie Mulan and I got a groinal response after one of the male characters removed their shirt! WHAT THE HELL?!) I don’t know how to describe these responses…it’s like yes, there is something there but it’s never progresses to a full out erection. So I guess my main worry is just that I’m attracted to men but I don’t know if I can write scripts about that…what if I actually like it? What if I get a full out boner while writing them? I’m just so scared to even try… —Imaginal scripting can be very challenging and is best done with the guidance of an ocd therapist. It is common for people to get groinal responses to writing about sexual acts, whether they are enjoyable or not. As long as you are in the business of trying to avoid what you fear you could enjoy, you will keep being plagued by intrusive thoughts about enjoying the “wrong” things. >>>>Also, if it helps any, a little history: I’ve never been big into playing the field with girls. That drive that other guys have just doesn’t seem to be in me. I’m painfully shy when it comes to girls and usually wait until they show an ample amount of interest before doing anything. I’ve been in a few relationships but I’ve also turned down many. I know I’ve felt emotionally, physically, and sexually attracted to girls but it all feels so meaningless after being pummeled by this possible HOCD. —I often see a combo of HOCD and social anxiety. The combination of feeling shy or uncomfortable with girls alongside the obsessive thoughts that come with ocd make for a hard time. >>>>Anyways, recently I lost my virginity and I think this is one of the issues. There were times when I craved sex with this girl and other times when I just didn’t want it. I don’t know if my libido is weak or something but it definitely didn’t help. I’ve heard all these stories about how guys are supposed to want sex all the time and it’s killing me. —That’s mythology. Different people have different sex drives. People with anxiety often have anxiety around sex and this often affects libido. >>>>The worst instance came when this girl and I were trying to have sex and I couldn’t stay hard…no matter what I did it just wouldn’t work. The next day everything went fine and I was able to perform no problem but it just stuck with me…and then the groinal responses started to happen and with them came an onslaught of gay thoughts and images. Now I’m doubting any attraction to women at all because I don’t feel the right things when I see them. Why am I getting these responses to guys and nothing to girls? My sex drive has dropped to almost nothing and when it shows up I’m scared to masturbate in case these thoughts pop up. Goddammit, I’m sick and tired of it all. Sorry for babbling on, I just needed to get all of it out there. —-Avoidance doesn’t work. It just sends the message to the brain that the thing you are avoiding is dangerous. It would be better to masturbate and accept that you may get some unwanted thoughts on your radar in the process. Anyway, my recommendation is to see a therapist who is experienced in treating social anxiety and OCD. ObsessionAfterObsession October 12, 2013 at 1:35 pm - Reply Hey Jon, I think I may be suffering from HOCD. I am a guy and since I was very young I have had crushes on girls. I think my first one was when I was 5. I can remember having romantic fantasies about girls I was crushing on like kissing and cuddling them and as I got a bit older I started to have sexual fantasies about them too. I have also suffered from intrusive thoughts and obsessions since I was very young also which I would try and cancel out with phrases I invented in my head or I would tap something a certain amount of times. I also struggle with constant checking of electrical appliances in case I cause a fire and I will check 5 to 10 times that I definitely switched something off before I can leave it alone. My worst obsession by far is this fear I am gay. I am in my twenties now and throughout my childhood and teens I never had any gay fantasies. If anything in my teenage years I was discovering I had an attraction to female feet and I was concerned what girls would think about that but it never caused me this kind of distress. I was sitting in a waiting room one day when my brain generated the thought “what if you were attracted to men?” And this all started. Since then I felt like I was attracted to practically every half decent looking man I saw but not in a good way. I would notice their attractive facial features and that would send me in to a horrible panic. As a compulsion I would try and masturbate to thoughts about that man but would always find it really difficult to maintain an erection which I had no issues with when it came to masturbating about girls. I would also watch gay porn and try and arouse myself which was also difficult compared to watching girls. The thing that scared me is despite not being able to become properly aroused I would get strange feelings I somehow enjoyed it. Like a horrible rushing feeling or something I thought was excitement but I would never be able to get an erection unless it was thinking about girls. When I am romantic or sexual with my girlfriend I always get sexually aroused just my mind convinces me I would enjoy these gay sex acts and it feels so real that I would. I once tried to come out as gay but when it came to actually being homosexual I found it hard to get an erection to gay fantasy so would always end up masturbating to women again. Before I met my current girlfriend I would lay in bed at night and imagine a girl next to me. I would think about cuddling her and being romantic. I done that a lot. I guess you could say I was desperate for that kind of closeness to a woman. My issue is a couple of nights ago I was trying to force an arousal to a gay thought and I think it actually grew a little which scared me to death because usually gay thoughts make my penis get smaller. Combined with the attractions which feel real and the rushing excitement feelings I just feel gay and in denial but the idea of that causes such internal turmoil. I have tried to masturbate to these gay thoughts several times since and as usual can’t get an erection but that slight movement is making me sick with doubt. Jonathan Hershfield October 14, 2013 at 3:52 am - Reply >>>>Hey Jon, I think I may be suffering from HOCD. I am a guy and since I was very young I have had crushes on girls. I think my first one was when I was 5. I can remember having romantic fantasies about girls I was crushing on like kissing and cuddling them and as I got a bit older I started to have sexual fantasies about them too. I have also suffered from intrusive thoughts and obsessions since I was very young also which I would try and cancel out with phrases I invented in my head or I would tap something a certain amount of times. I also struggle with constant checking of electrical appliances in case I cause a fire and I will check 5 to 10 times that I definitely switched something off before I can leave it alone. —Sounds like OCD. >>>>My worst obsession by far is this fear I am gay. I am in my twenties now and throughout my childhood and teens I never had any gay fantasies. If anything in my teenage years I was discovering I had an attraction to female feet and I was concerned what girls would think about that but it never caused me this kind of distress. I was sitting in a waiting room one day when my brain generated the thought “what if you were attracted to men?” And this all started. Since then I felt like I was attracted to practically every half decent looking man I saw but not in a good way. I would notice their attractive facial features and that would send me in to a horrible panic. As a compulsion I would try and masturbate to thoughts about that man but would always find it really difficult to maintain an erection which I had no issues with when it came to masturbating about girls. I would also watch gay porn and try and arouse myself which was also difficult compared to watching girls. The thing that scared me is despite not being able to become properly aroused I would get strange feelings I somehow enjoyed it. Like a horrible rushing feeling or something I thought was excitement but I would never be able to get an erection unless it was thinking about girls. —This is a common compulsive trap fro HOCD sufferers. You tried to do exposure to your fears, but you concurrently tried to use it for reassurance about your orientation, so it was a compulsion, not an exposure and as a result in made your obsession stronger, not weaker. ERP only works as exposure WITH response prevention. >>>>When I am romantic or sexual with my girlfriend I always get sexually aroused just my mind convinces me I would enjoy these gay sex acts and it feels so real that I would. I once tried to come out as gay but when it came to actually being homosexual I found it hard to get an erection to gay fantasy so would always end up masturbating to women again. Before I met my current girlfriend I would lay in bed at night and imagine a girl next to me. I would think about cuddling her and being romantic. I done that a lot. I guess you could say I was desperate for that kind of closeness to a woman. My issue is a couple of nights ago I was trying to force an arousal to a gay thought and I think it actually grew a little which scared me to death because usually gay thoughts make my penis get smaller. Combined with the attractions which feel real and the rushing excitement feelings I just feel gay and in denial but the idea of that causes such internal turmoil. I have tried to masturbate to these gay thoughts several times since and as usual can’t get an erection but that slight movement is making me sick with doubt. —Being capable of being aroused by something does not mean you are oriented to that thing. You have to stop doing the compulsive testing or the obsession will persevere. ObsessionAfterObsession October 12, 2013 at 1:35 pm - Reply Hey Jon, I think I may be suffering from HOCD. I am a guy and since I was very young I have had crushes on girls. I think my first one was when I was 5. I can remember having romantic fantasies about girls I was crushing on like kissing and cuddling them and as I got a bit older I started to have sexual fantasies about them too. I have also suffered from intrusive thoughts and obsessions since I was very young also which I would try and cancel out with phrases I invented in my head or I would tap something a certain amount of times. I also struggle with constant checking of electrical appliances in case I cause a fire and I will check 5 to 10 times that I definitely switched something off before I can leave it alone. My worst obsession by far is this fear I am gay. I am in my twenties now and throughout my childhood and teens I never had any gay fantasies. If anything in my teenage years I was discovering I had an attraction to female feet and I was concerned what girls would think about that but it never caused me this kind of distress. I was sitting in a waiting room one day when my brain generated the thought “what if you were attracted to men?” And this all started. Since then I felt like I was attracted to practically every half decent looking man I saw but not in a good way. I would notice their attractive facial features and that would send me in to a horrible panic. As a compulsion I would try and masturbate to thoughts about that man but would always find it really difficult to maintain an erection which I had no issues with when it came to masturbating about girls. I would also watch gay porn and try and arouse myself which was also difficult compared to watching girls. The thing that scared me is despite not being able to become properly aroused I would get strange feelings I somehow enjoyed it. Like a horrible rushing feeling or something I thought was excitement but I would never be able to get an erection unless it was thinking about girls. When I am romantic or sexual with my girlfriend I always get sexually aroused just my mind convinces me I would enjoy these gay sex acts and it feels so real that I would. I once tried to come out as gay but when it came to actually being homosexual I found it hard to get an erection to gay fantasy so would always end up masturbating to women again. Before I met my current girlfriend I would lay in bed at night and imagine a girl next to me. I would think about cuddling her and being romantic. I done that a lot. I guess you could say I was desperate for that kind of closeness to a woman. My issue is a couple of nights ago I was trying to force an arousal to a gay thought and I think it actually grew a little which scared me to death because usually gay thoughts make my penis get smaller. Combined with the attractions which feel real and the rushing excitement feelings I just feel gay and in denial but the idea of that causes such internal turmoil. I have tried to masturbate to these gay thoughts several times since and as usual can’t get an erection but that slight movement is making me sick with doubt. Jonathan Hershfield October 14, 2013 at 3:52 am - Reply >>>>Hey Jon, I think I may be suffering from HOCD. I am a guy and since I was very young I have had crushes on girls. I think my first one was when I was 5. I can remember having romantic fantasies about girls I was crushing on like kissing and cuddling them and as I got a bit older I started to have sexual fantasies about them too. I have also suffered from intrusive thoughts and obsessions since I was very young also which I would try and cancel out with phrases I invented in my head or I would tap something a certain amount of times. I also struggle with constant checking of electrical appliances in case I cause a fire and I will check 5 to 10 times that I definitely switched something off before I can leave it alone. —Sounds like OCD. >>>>My worst obsession by far is this fear I am gay. I am in my twenties now and throughout my childhood and teens I never had any gay fantasies. If anything in my teenage years I was discovering I had an attraction to female feet and I was concerned what girls would think about that but it never caused me this kind of distress. I was sitting in a waiting room one day when my brain generated the thought “what if you were attracted to men?” And this all started. Since then I felt like I was attracted to practically every half decent looking man I saw but not in a good way. I would notice their attractive facial features and that would send me in to a horrible panic. As a compulsion I would try and masturbate to thoughts about that man but would always find it really difficult to maintain an erection which I had no issues with when it came to masturbating about girls. I would also watch gay porn and try and arouse myself which was also difficult compared to watching girls. The thing that scared me is despite not being able to become properly aroused I would get strange feelings I somehow enjoyed it. Like a horrible rushing feeling or something I thought was excitement but I would never be able to get an erection unless it was thinking about girls. —This is a common compulsive trap fro HOCD sufferers. You tried to do exposure to your fears, but you concurrently tried to use it for reassurance about your orientation, so it was a compulsion, not an exposure and as a result in made your obsession stronger, not weaker. ERP only works as exposure WITH response prevention. >>>>When I am romantic or sexual with my girlfriend I always get sexually aroused just my mind convinces me I would enjoy these gay sex acts and it feels so real that I would. I once tried to come out as gay but when it came to actually being homosexual I found it hard to get an erection to gay fantasy so would always end up masturbating to women again. Before I met my current girlfriend I would lay in bed at night and imagine a girl next to me. I would think about cuddling her and being romantic. I done that a lot. I guess you could say I was desperate for that kind of closeness to a woman. My issue is a couple of nights ago I was trying to force an arousal to a gay thought and I think it actually grew a little which scared me to death because usually gay thoughts make my penis get smaller. Combined with the attractions which feel real and the rushing excitement feelings I just feel gay and in denial but the idea of that causes such internal turmoil. I have tried to masturbate to these gay thoughts several times since and as usual can’t get an erection but that slight movement is making me sick with doubt. —Being capable of being aroused by something does not mean you are oriented to that thing. You have to stop doing the compulsive testing or the obsession will persevere. ObsessionAfterObsession October 15, 2013 at 12:17 pm - Reply Thank you for the reply. I have been battling this for about a year and a half now and it is the 3rd time I have obsessed over it in my life. It started when I was very young, maybe about 10 years old. I had only just heard what the word gay ment and my feelings were starting to fade for a girl I had previously crushed on for years and my young mind wondered if that ment I was turning gay. Before that I mainly struggled with thoughts about bad things happening to my family and repeating a prayer I made up in my head to “prevent” it from happening. Since then this gay obsession has stuck and never left me alone for over a decade. People who understand OCD are few and far between where I live and I can’t actually afford them anyway since I am only a student so I have been trying to recover with books and stuff I have read online. I have tried all the exposure stuff while resisting compulsions. I have spent months watching movies with good looking men and going out to places where a lot of men are likely to be while resisting the urge to figure out if I am gay or not. I have written stories in which I come out as gay while resisting the urge to figure out if I am gay. I have sat through tears and sleepless nights and rocking back and forward but I never seem to improve at all and in the end I end up testing again. I am at a loss really for what to do. I have a strong urge to leave my fiance(who I love and don’t want to leave at all) because my mind has come to the conclusion I must be gay but I definitely wasn’t gay in the past. It’s hard because people want me to get better so if I have managed to go 6 weeks without performing rituals and exposing myself to my fears people ask me “are you feeling better?” And I end up lying and saying yes when my mind is still in mental agony with the anxiety and depression. My family has a long history of diagnosed mental disorders on both sides. My mum and sister both have OCD as well but they both have other disorders like bi polar and I am starting to wonder if maybe another issue is making this worse. All I know is the idea of being gay fills me with horror, dread, anxiety and depression and I want to go back to life when I was attracted to women and I was happy without these thoughts but at this point my OCD has convinced me that being gay is inevitable and I am going to lose the girl I love along with my happy attractions and fantasies to women. Any advice about where I should go from here would be appreciated. Jonathan Hershfield October 16, 2013 at 5:09 am - Reply >>>>Thank you for the reply. I have been battling this for about a year and a half now and it is the 3rd time I have obsessed over it in my life. It started when I was very young, maybe about 10 years old. I had only just heard what the word gay ment and my feelings were starting to fade for a girl I had previously crushed on for years and my young mind wondered if that ment I was turning gay. Before that I mainly struggled with thoughts about bad things happening to my family and repeating a prayer I made up in my head to “prevent” it from happening. Since then this gay obsession has stuck and never left me alone for over a decade. —It’s not unusual for untreated OCD to persist and for specific obsessions to fade and return multiple times. The combo of fear of harm coming to parents and the compulsion of repeating mental chants or prayers is common in children with OCD. >>>>People who understand OCD are few and far between where I live and I can’t actually afford them anyway since I am only a student so I have been trying to recover with books and stuff I have read online. I have tried all the exposure stuff while resisting compulsions. I have spent months watching movies with good looking men and going out to places where a lot of men are likely to be while resisting the urge to figure out if I am gay or not. I have written stories in which I come out as gay while resisting the urge to figure out if I am gay. I have sat through tears and sleepless nights and rocking back and forward but I never seem to improve at all and in the end I end up testing again. —Sounds like you’re missing the structure a therapist would provide. If you can’t afford one, the next best thing would have to be a workbook program to follow. Jonathan Grayson’s Freedom from Obsessive Compulsive Disorder would be good if you haven’t already used it. So long as the emphasis remains on getting the thoughts to go away, you will keep returning to testing and so long as you test, your brain will think there is something to test. >>>I am at a loss really for what to do. I have a strong urge to leave my fiance(who I love and don’t want to leave at all) because my mind has come to the conclusion I must be gay but I definitely wasn’t gay in the past. —People have urges to do lots of things they don’t want to do. Urges are not reliable sources of information. If you don’t want to leave your fiancee, then don’t, but that means accepting the unwanted thoughts and feelings that come with that choice. >>>>It’s hard because people want me to get better so if I have managed to go 6 weeks without performing rituals and exposing myself to my fears people ask me “are you feeling better?” And I end up lying and saying yes when my mind is still in mental agony with the anxiety and depression. —A typical course of CBT with a professional takes 4-6 months of weekly sessions. Your pervasive anxiety and depression symptoms also suggest that medication may play an important role in allowing the tools you are trying to use to actually stick. >>>>My family has a long history of diagnosed mental disorders on both sides. My mum and sister both have OCD as well but they both have other disorders like bi polar and I am starting to wonder if maybe another issue is making this worse. —It’s possible, but hard to say without a professional evaluation. Sounds like clinical depression is a factor at least and that often interferes in people being capable of tacking the ocd even when they’re doing everything right. >>>All I know is the idea of being gay fills me with horror, dread, anxiety and depression and I want to go back to life when I was attracted to women and I was happy without these thoughts but at this point my OCD has convinced me that being gay is inevitable and I am going to lose the girl I love along with my happy attractions and fantasies to women. —-Fantasizing about going to a place in time where a specific thought is absent should be looked at as a mental ritual that fuels the distorted experience of the present thought. >>>>Any advice about where I should go from here would be appreciated. —I’m guessing from the use of the word “mum” that you’re not in the US. You could see someone online, but if there’s no money for an ocd specialist and no one who can help you financially to access one, you should get on whatever waitlist you need to get on to at least get a psychiatric evaluation locally and see what recommendations they have. You found someone who wants to marry you, so you must be doing something right. Don’t give up. I know you feel OCD has convinced you of some inevitability. You have to accept uncertainty, not inevitability. Don’t confuse something you had to be “convinced” of as being the same thing as the truth. ObsessionAfterObsession October 15, 2013 at 12:17 pm - Reply Thank you for the reply. I have been battling this for about a year and a half now and it is the 3rd time I have obsessed over it in my life. It started when I was very young, maybe about 10 years old. I had only just heard what the word gay ment and my feelings were starting to fade for a girl I had previously crushed on for years and my young mind wondered if that ment I was turning gay. Before that I mainly struggled with thoughts about bad things happening to my family and repeating a prayer I made up in my head to “prevent” it from happening. Since then this gay obsession has stuck and never left me alone for over a decade. People who understand OCD are few and far between where I live and I can’t actually afford them anyway since I am only a student so I have been trying to recover with books and stuff I have read online. I have tried all the exposure stuff while resisting compulsions. I have spent months watching movies with good looking men and going out to places where a lot of men are likely to be while resisting the urge to figure out if I am gay or not. I have written stories in which I come out as gay while resisting the urge to figure out if I am gay. I have sat through tears and sleepless nights and rocking back and forward but I never seem to improve at all and in the end I end up testing again. I am at a loss really for what to do. I have a strong urge to leave my fiance(who I love and don’t want to leave at all) because my mind has come to the conclusion I must be gay but I definitely wasn’t gay in the past. It’s hard because people want me to get better so if I have managed to go 6 weeks without performing rituals and exposing myself to my fears people ask me “are you feeling better?” And I end up lying and saying yes when my mind is still in mental agony with the anxiety and depression. My family has a long history of diagnosed mental disorders on both sides. My mum and sister both have OCD as well but they both have other disorders like bi polar and I am starting to wonder if maybe another issue is making this worse. All I know is the idea of being gay fills me with horror, dread, anxiety and depression and I want to go back to life when I was attracted to women and I was happy without these thoughts but at this point my OCD has convinced me that being gay is inevitable and I am going to lose the girl I love along with my happy attractions and fantasies to women. Any advice about where I should go from here would be appreciated. Jonathan Hershfield October 16, 2013 at 5:09 am - Reply >>>>Thank you for the reply. I have been battling this for about a year and a half now and it is the 3rd time I have obsessed over it in my life. It started when I was very young, maybe about 10 years old. I had only just heard what the word gay ment and my feelings were starting to fade for a girl I had previously crushed on for years and my young mind wondered if that ment I was turning gay. Before that I mainly struggled with thoughts about bad things happening to my family and repeating a prayer I made up in my head to “prevent” it from happening. Since then this gay obsession has stuck and never left me alone for over a decade. —It’s not unusual for untreated OCD to persist and for specific obsessions to fade and return multiple times. The combo of fear of harm coming to parents and the compulsion of repeating mental chants or prayers is common in children with OCD. >>>>People who understand OCD are few and far between where I live and I can’t actually afford them anyway since I am only a student so I have been trying to recover with books and stuff I have read online. I have tried all the exposure stuff while resisting compulsions. I have spent months watching movies with good looking men and going out to places where a lot of men are likely to be while resisting the urge to figure out if I am gay or not. I have written stories in which I come out as gay while resisting the urge to figure out if I am gay. I have sat through tears and sleepless nights and rocking back and forward but I never seem to improve at all and in the end I end up testing again. —Sounds like you’re missing the structure a therapist would provide. If you can’t afford one, the next best thing would have to be a workbook program to follow. Jonathan Grayson’s Freedom from Obsessive Compulsive Disorder would be good if you haven’t already used it. So long as the emphasis remains on getting the thoughts to go away, you will keep returning to testing and so long as you test, your brain will think there is something to test. >>>I am at a loss really for what to do. I have a strong urge to leave my fiance(who I love and don’t want to leave at all) because my mind has come to the conclusion I must be gay but I definitely wasn’t gay in the past. —People have urges to do lots of things they don’t want to do. Urges are not reliable sources of information. If you don’t want to leave your fiancee, then don’t, but that means accepting the unwanted thoughts and feelings that come with that choice. >>>>It’s hard because people want me to get better so if I have managed to go 6 weeks without performing rituals and exposing myself to my fears people ask me “are you feeling better?” And I end up lying and saying yes when my mind is still in mental agony with the anxiety and depression. —A typical course of CBT with a professional takes 4-6 months of weekly sessions. Your pervasive anxiety and depression symptoms also suggest that medication may play an important role in allowing the tools you are trying to use to actually stick. >>>>My family has a long history of diagnosed mental disorders on both sides. My mum and sister both have OCD as well but they both have other disorders like bi polar and I am starting to wonder if maybe another issue is making this worse. —It’s possible, but hard to say without a professional evaluation. Sounds like clinical depression is a factor at least and that often interferes in people being capable of tacking the ocd even when they’re doing everything right. >>>All I know is the idea of being gay fills me with horror, dread, anxiety and depression and I want to go back to life when I was attracted to women and I was happy without these thoughts but at this point my OCD has convinced me that being gay is inevitable and I am going to lose the girl I love along with my happy attractions and fantasies to women. —-Fantasizing about going to a place in time where a specific thought is absent should be looked at as a mental ritual that fuels the distorted experience of the present thought. >>>>Any advice about where I should go from here would be appreciated. —I’m guessing from the use of the word “mum” that you’re not in the US. You could see someone online, but if there’s no money for an ocd specialist and no one who can help you financially to access one, you should get on whatever waitlist you need to get on to at least get a psychiatric evaluation locally and see what recommendations they have. You found someone who wants to marry you, so you must be doing something right. Don’t give up. I know you feel OCD has convinced you of some inevitability. You have to accept uncertainty, not inevitability. Don’t confuse something you had to be “convinced” of as being the same thing as the truth. Itisawayoflife October 18, 2013 at 2:28 pm - Reply This is a great article and really helped me but I do have one little question. I have fallen into a trap of constant checking the problem is when I check I get a slight erection never a full blow one but one when it swells up a little and gets a bit bigger. Is this normal for a HOCD suffer? This is really worrying me as when I read people on about watching gay porn they all say nothing happened but something did happen for me. Im just worried and wanted to know what you think thanks. Jonathan Hershfield October 18, 2013 at 5:19 pm - Reply I think the fact that you are posting this question as a comment on a blog primarily about this question, in which this question is answered multiple times, in multiple ways, suggests that you are seeking reassurance, rather than an actual answer, which you must already have. As for reading about people having no physical responses to viewing gay pornography, I would suggest that the majority of people, who have physical responses to the viewing or thinking about ALL sexual content, probably write about it less. My recommendation is to treat the ocd, which entails accepting that you have thoughts, feelings, and physical sensations that may discomfort you. Itisawayoflife October 18, 2013 at 2:28 pm - Reply This is a great article and really helped me but I do have one little question. I have fallen into a trap of constant checking the problem is when I check I get a slight erection never a full blow one but one when it swells up a little and gets a bit bigger. Is this normal for a HOCD suffer? This is really worrying me as when I read people on about watching gay porn they all say nothing happened but something did happen for me. Im just worried and wanted to know what you think thanks. Jonathan Hershfield October 18, 2013 at 5:19 pm - Reply I think the fact that you are posting this question as a comment on a blog primarily about this question, in which this question is answered multiple times, in multiple ways, suggests that you are seeking reassurance, rather than an actual answer, which you must already have. As for reading about people having no physical responses to viewing gay pornography, I would suggest that the majority of people, who have physical responses to the viewing or thinking about ALL sexual content, probably write about it less. My recommendation is to treat the ocd, which entails accepting that you have thoughts, feelings, and physical sensations that may discomfort you. Justin October 22, 2013 at 6:24 am - Reply Hello Jon. These articles are genius and helped so much. For anyone who’s struggling, the day you start saying you might be gay is the day you will start to gain complete control of your lives again. This has easily been the hardest thing I’ve ever gone through. Gay gay gay gay gay gay gay gay. Over and over until you can’t breathe. Affected every part of my life. I was so depressed. I could barely eat. Every day I prayed to God when am I gonna get out of this? This will ruin my life. I can’t focus on my job, school, or working out because the outcome was always ending up as a gay man. I loved sports, fighting, and women. All this dude stuff and i couldn’t do that stuff anymore because my mind said I’m lying to myself I’m gay. Trying to be straighter didn’t work. I cried many times because it sucks! It feels like you won’t ever enjoy life again because you’ll never be in love with the opposite sex again and even worse…being in a homosexual relationship. So I did everything. I vocally said the words “I’m straight” till Id feel any ounce of straightness. I never did. This was over a 2 to 3 year period. I couldn’t stand it. Thinking about the opposite sex makes it so much worse. Over a while you get tired of it because you can’t be depressed all day. It still tortures you but you move past it. And enough about the depressing part because literally your freedom is only a thought away. It’s not about free from gayness but free from my thoughts. And it’s so easy. Accept you might be gay. Whatever is your deepest fear you must say maybe. It might happen. If people tell you “you’re fine”, “you’re straight”, don’t listen to that. There is NO certainty. If you’re looking for certainty you’re not gay you’ll never find it. Ever. Ever. I’ve only ever loved women. Just women. Never once a dude. And I’ve gone through this torture and couldn’t understand why I couldn’t get being gay out of my head. I wanted my old life back and I’m so back it’s not even funny. I said maybe to every thought and accept that if I ever wanted a dude it’s not the end of the world. Even if you have homosexual desires you can live straight. So many people do it. They just don’t say anything. That doesn’t mean it’s you but it means that gays still can enjoy and live a heterosexual lifestyle. They can have heterosexual sex. This was my worst case scenario and that was not being able to be straight or have sex with a woman anymore. Lol I accepted that if I was completely gay it’d be okay… Id still live straight because I wanted a wife and family more than anything. And even if I said I want to marry a man, it wouldn’t be the end of the world. And believe it or not so many straight people have had homosexual experiences. Some of the toughest guys I’ve run in to have said “yeah I’ve done that before.” Fact is humans are horny. Now I’m also one of those people who doesn’t think homosexuality is okay. I believe it’s wrong. But if I did it would I hate myself? No. It wouldn’t be the end of the world. Some people have homosexual desires. it’s fact. We all probably do to a degree. But whether or not you act on it is your choice. My point is ultimately do not fear you might wake up one day wanting to do homosexual acts. If it happens, it happens. I am so free now. Always answer with a maybe. Now what sucks is you will still have OCD. Which is hard to overcome because it takes months and months to practice accepting uncertainty. And if you let thoughts come in you’ll decline a little which it WILL happen. But you get back up and shrug it off and move forward. That’s OCD. Gotta get over it. You have to accept you might still be gay….. Oh and Im crazy about this girl right now. She’s hot. And it feels right. Doesn’t feel like im trying to feel certainty. I’ve gained it all back. And going through this Im pretty positive I’m straight. But I might not be! I could end up gay tomorrow who knows?! All I know is I sleep sound again and I love this girl I’m with. Jonathan Hershfield October 26, 2013 at 3:13 am - Reply Hi Justin, thanks for sharing such a positive message! Justin October 22, 2013 at 6:24 am - Reply Hello Jon. These articles are genius and helped so much. For anyone who’s struggling, the day you start saying you might be gay is the day you will start to gain complete control of your lives again. This has easily been the hardest thing I’ve ever gone through. Gay gay gay gay gay gay gay gay. Over and over until you can’t breathe. Affected every part of my life. I was so depressed. I could barely eat. Every day I prayed to God when am I gonna get out of this? This will ruin my life. I can’t focus on my job, school, or working out because the outcome was always ending up as a gay man. I loved sports, fighting, and women. All this dude stuff and i couldn’t do that stuff anymore because my mind said I’m lying to myself I’m gay. Trying to be straighter didn’t work. I cried many times because it sucks! It feels like you won’t ever enjoy life again because you’ll never be in love with the opposite sex again and even worse…being in a homosexual relationship. So I did everything. I vocally said the words “I’m straight” till Id feel any ounce of straightness. I never did. This was over a 2 to 3 year period. I couldn’t stand it. Thinking about the opposite sex makes it so much worse. Over a while you get tired of it because you can’t be depressed all day. It still tortures you but you move past it. And enough about the depressing part because literally your freedom is only a thought away. It’s not about free from gayness but free from my thoughts. And it’s so easy. Accept you might be gay. Whatever is your deepest fear you must say maybe. It might happen. If people tell you “you’re fine”, “you’re straight”, don’t listen to that. There is NO certainty. If you’re looking for certainty you’re not gay you’ll never find it. Ever. Ever. I’ve only ever loved women. Just women. Never once a dude. And I’ve gone through this torture and couldn’t understand why I couldn’t get being gay out of my head. I wanted my old life back and I’m so back it’s not even funny. I said maybe to every thought and accept that if I ever wanted a dude it’s not the end of the world. Even if you have homosexual desires you can live straight. So many people do it. They just don’t say anything. That doesn’t mean it’s you but it means that gays still can enjoy and live a heterosexual lifestyle. They can have heterosexual sex. This was my worst case scenario and that was not being able to be straight or have sex with a woman anymore. Lol I accepted that if I was completely gay it’d be okay… Id still live straight because I wanted a wife and family more than anything. And even if I said I want to marry a man, it wouldn’t be the end of the world. And believe it or not so many straight people have had homosexual experiences. Some of the toughest guys I’ve run in to have said “yeah I’ve done that before.” Fact is humans are horny. Now I’m also one of those people who doesn’t think homosexuality is okay. I believe it’s wrong. But if I did it would I hate myself? No. It wouldn’t be the end of the world. Some people have homosexual desires. it’s fact. We all probably do to a degree. But whether or not you act on it is your choice. My point is ultimately do not fear you might wake up one day wanting to do homosexual acts. If it happens, it happens. I am so free now. Always answer with a maybe. Now what sucks is you will still have OCD. Which is hard to overcome because it takes months and months to practice accepting uncertainty. And if you let thoughts come in you’ll decline a little which it WILL happen. But you get back up and shrug it off and move forward. That’s OCD. Gotta get over it. You have to accept you might still be gay….. Oh and Im crazy about this girl right now. She’s hot. And it feels right. Doesn’t feel like im trying to feel certainty. I’ve gained it all back. And going through this Im pretty positive I’m straight. But I might not be! I could end up gay tomorrow who knows?! All I know is I sleep sound again and I love this girl I’m with. Jonathan Hershfield October 26, 2013 at 3:13 am - Reply Hi Justin, thanks for sharing such a positive message! kingoferls October 25, 2013 at 10:07 pm - Reply Hi great blog finally a blog that is informative. Justin talks a lot of sense, i think the key is to accept the uncertainty. The problem is we all want to be 100 percent straight, but what is that anyway, it is what we feel inside that is important. Hi Jon, when is part 4 coming out? Jonathan Hershfield October 26, 2013 at 3:23 am - Reply I’m working on part 4 now, but it’s been hard to find the time lately! It’s on its way though… kingoferls October 25, 2013 at 10:07 pm - Reply Hi great blog finally a blog that is informative. Justin talks a lot of sense, i think the key is to accept the uncertainty. The problem is we all want to be 100 percent straight, but what is that anyway, it is what we feel inside that is important. Hi Jon, when is part 4 coming out? Jonathan Hershfield October 26, 2013 at 3:23 am - Reply I’m working on part 4 now, but it’s been hard to find the time lately! It’s on its way though… Bruno November 2, 2013 at 2:42 am - Reply