#anti-anti Jonerys

[akarena]

[Chorus:] When I wake up, I'm afraid Somebody else might take my place When I wake up, I'm afraid Somebody else might take my place

GOT S06E10 - GOT S08E04

[amaltheas-garden]

What killed any chance of book Jonerys for me was just how connected Jon is to the North (ffs his soul-bonded spirit animal looks like a weirwood tree!), which means if he survives this series, there is no way he is ever leaving. Dany's goal is to rule the 7K, and to do that, she'll have to be in KL (or Dragonstone at the very least). There's just no possible way to rule the 7K from the North, which is constantly presented as a more foreign, less connected part of Westeros compared to the rest (except Dorne), and I also don't think Dany would ever settle to be Queen in the North, seeing as all the power would reside with her husband, the Stark. The only way Jonerys works is for Dany to either successfully conquer the 7K and convince Jon to move to KL (lol could you imagine... Jon's happy ending hanging out in hands down the worst city in Westeros) or return to Essos to be queen there and drag Jon across the narrow sea (which is even funnier to imagine). Either way Dany would have to sacrifice everything she's worked for and settle to be someone's wife with no real political power, or Jon would have to leave his beloved homeland and remaining family to govern over vast swaths of territory that mean nothing to him. Anyhow, if Jon is going to have a romance, this reduces the options to any lady who is from/would be happy in the North (so unless grrm throws in yet another character this leaves Val, Arya, and Sansa). Now it just so happens that his radiant cousin/heiress of House Stark/Blood of Winterfell has all the exact same dreams for her future as he does and might be making her way to him very shortly. I'm sure this means nothing🙃

[c-sand]

I cannot believe youre a fellow poljon believer

Oh, my friend, I absolutely am. Like, I don't know what's going on in those books George won't release -- maybe nothing related to pol!jon will ever touch that world. But? In the world of the show?? There is not a single thing on this planet that anyone could say to convince me that Jon actually had any authentic feelings for that woman. I know that's the official narrative -- heard. But... I'm sorry, but I've never seen a man look more miserable around the supposed love of his life.

Every single acting choice Kit made, from the second the characters meet, says, "I am not down with this woman." And his interviews suggested the exact same conclusion. His interviews legitimately make no sense, if pol!Jon wasn't something he was operating with. Because, if he actually loves that woman (despite hating everything she stands for and looking like he wants to die, every single time they speak, INCLUDING when he's actively having sex with her) and is legitimately on her side and wanting to support her, than he isn't making any moves, being more political, or manipulating anyone 'in a kind way.' He's just a dumb man who gets completely blinded by a beautiful woman... Which is kind of lame, considering who Jon is and who we know him to be.

They filmed literal scenes where his people mock and spit at her feet and he LAUGHS. He doesn't care. He only cares that she sees him suppressing a laugh. And then stared her down the second she makes a thinly veiled threat against Sansa. Show!Jon is cooking up plans, whether the show wants to admit it or not.

[crimsoncold]

What is pol!Jon?

It a short form tag that stands for political jon. Essentially an explanation theorized and popularized by a number of people in asoiaf/game of thrones fandom in an attempt to explain some of the very questionable if not outright out of character choices that writer's made on game of thrones for Jon Snow in the later seasons concerning his entire storyline since encountering Daenerys.

Essentially its a theory that stands by the idea that the only way Jon's action and choices could make sense were if Jon's interactions with Daenerys and her allies were not of a genuine nature (i.e. he had no genuine loyalty, affection, love, or trust in her or her advisors/army) but rather everything he was doing and saying amounted to him "playing" the game and doing whatever was necessary to gain her help (i.e. her army and dragons) in the war against the dead, but also to keep his family members and subjects safe from Dany's wrath once he brought her north, and potentially even to maneuver/keep himself in a position where he would be close enough to take Daenerys out all together should it prove necessary to eliminate someone who had proved to be an obvious threat (i.e. before she could cause mass murder and destruction via her dragons, or attempt to greviously harm Jon himself or his "siblings"- the latter at least Jon was successful with)

Essentially it holds to the idea that Jon would have had to have clocked Daenerys as a temporarily necessary "evil" but ultimately also a likely a very dangerous person who would have to be carefully managed to keep her on track and from outright imploding and he then acted (i.e. lied) accordingly (honestly not exactly unlike how her own advisors tended to treat her... as someone useful and powerful who they hoped to influence/guide to some desired outcome/ruler while also having to offset her ever present dangerous desire to take the easy road- i.e. screw the consequences wipe out any and all of her "enemies" with dragon fire).

This theory was meant to offer a more sensible and in character explanation for him bending the knee, becoming her lover, him acting as if he believed she really was a good queen or a ruler any different than the several other violent destructive and/or fire-obsessed ones that came before her.

One that wouldn't require the audience to accept that Jon had just suddenly and without explanation had a personality transplant, becoming incredibly foolishly trusting, a exceptionally bad judge of character, and willing to follow and submit to someone who was not just personally disrespectful to him and his family but who also burned countless people alive, is intending to invade westeros, forcefully take independence away from the north, while also directly threatening Jon's own beloved family.

Support for the idea that Jon would never sincerely trust or feel affection for Dany comes from various things such as...

1. The general lack of any affection/passion/happiness being displayed by Jon when interacting with Daenerys. That feels like a very intentional and suspect choice that is unlikely to have solely been the decision of Kit Harrington or simply due to a general lack of chemistry between him and Emilia Clarke. (Storytelling is more than just the performers... other people on set had to have been involved in creating even the possibility of this political Jon narrative)

Just compare scenes of Jon with any number of characters (his Stark siblings- Sansa in particular, Sam or any of his other nightswatch friends, Tormund or even Ygritte) and it seems obvious to conclude that his interactions with Dany lack true happiness/comradery/affection.

2. How many scenes between characters were being framed in the show.. a number of which seemed to point the audience towards the conclusion that something is quite suspect with this whole dynamic between Dany and her Northern and other Westeros Allies.

Serving to foreshadow Dany as an ultimate aggressor and villain for these characters but also currently establishing a noticeable tension- both a jealousy and a sense of isolation...a lack of belonging or trust between Dany and these characters- all of which hints to the idea that Jon was always loyal to the Starks and The North while Daenerys always remained an unaccepted and untrusted outsider, someone that Jon would attempt to placate and manage but never actually endeavored to truly welcome, include, or help integrate into his family or his people (which one may typically expect a man would do for a foreigner lover that he had brought to an unfamiliar place and people to introduce her to his family, his home, his friends, his culture, and his homeland ... that is if said man were actually in love with this woman or had a even a modicum of affection for her).

For evidence see almost any scene with Jon + Sansa + Dany, Dany + Sansa, Dany + the Northerners, Jon + Greyworm.

3. Jon's book or (perhaps to a lesser degree) his established show canon personalities and familial background.

Him having been established as more intelligent and strategic than how he appeared in the later seasons, his protectiveness and nobility, him being at times ruthless, his willingness to compromise his honor when it's necessary for his own life/saftey or that of others... all of which would correspond better to a pol!jon theory than to the idea that he so quickly and inexplicably fell truly in love with, became loyal to, and strangely willingly so passive to a person like Dany.

His previous history and interactions with other villainous characters who choose to use fire for human sacrifice/execution not unlike the way Daenerys does repeatedly (think Stannis or Melisandre, he didn't like them, found their actions abhorrent, he actively worked to oppose them when he could/when it was the right thing to do),

The general history between House Targaryen and Stark (Lyanna's assumed abduction and rape by the brother Dany admires, and the horrific and brutal killing of his Grandfather and Uncle by Dany's King Father, the resulting uprising that Jon's beloved late "father" took part in to overthrow said king) which by itself is enough reason for him not to readily trust any Targaryen

That's all without even looking at Dany's own personal actions that indicate she, much like other various terrible Targ rulers/ancestors is also an incredibly dangerous individual (one unwilling to look to and learn from the past, to unlearn the sense of targaryen superiority she was raised with, or accept the reality of her family members/ancestors, a conqueror who strength lies in her military might and her willingness to kill en masse via dragon fire rather than in an interest in say labouring to earn the loyalty and acceptance of westeros, in handling the details and minutiae of ruling, or striving towards improving her general political acuity).

Lastly because his willingness and ability to infiltrate, manipulate, lie to, and otherwise feign going along with until the time is right to "strike" (while still not actually abandoning his original duty or loyalty) to the people who qualify as an enemey has already been established (including ones he- reluctantly or under coercion- engages with in a romantic or sexual relationship) through his dealings with Ygritte and the other Free Folk.

Essentially fans were unimpressed with the choices and explanations from the writers/showrunners and were trying to come up with their own more reasonable explanation for Jon's later storyline (beyond the simple fact that the show's writing quality in general had suffered in the later seasons, and that the writer's seemed to forget that several houses - including the starks you know the unofficial heart of the story- were significant and that GOT wasn't ever supposed to be the Dany & DRAGONS!!!! Show ft. everyone else) which cumulated in this jon as a political actor (i.e. a strategic manipulator who is working on the behalf of the collective good of the north, or really humanity itself) theory.

So considering all these facts (plus undoubtedly some I couldn't recall simply off the top of my head) a number of fans saw that a reasonable or even somewhat satisfying explanation for Jon's later season's arc/storyline had to be pol!jon... though people may vary on how canon they think this theory is.

Some may think it does make considerable sense and accept it as headcanon but not believe it was an intentional decision by the writers- thus it's something that is applicable in fandom spaces but is not actually a canon theory.

Others believe pol!jon was a storyline that was actually originally planned out and initiated by the writers but was one that would ultimately fall off and never be properly or explicitly addressed in the show itself- or even acknowledged behind the scenes.

Explanations for this generally are various (unconfirmed and speculative) theories that it was scrapped because the show had second thoughts because....

a) Perhaps the show wasn't interested in or able to devote enough time to properly focus on Jon's character arc in the last leg of the show (not at all unlike the treatment of several other major characters), so this storyline wasn't explicity kept up

b) Maybe because they wanted to make Dany's downfall some supposed huge exciting twist for the audience and thus could no longer have an established heroic and generally liked character explicity be shown as as treating Dany as a villain so far in advance from her downfall as it could raise questions on Dany's ultimate role in the series potentially ruining their oh so amazing twist,

C) More cynically speaking it could have been from a desire to avoid any early on backlash from the large, very invested, and profitable, dany-stan/targ centric/jonerys part of fandom who were banking on a "happy" ending with Dany successfully taking power, being accepted in westeros (and the north with Jon as her consort), making for a glorious return of the dragons and a full targ restoration in Westeros with good queen Dany who would be beloved by all (regardless of the atrocities she enacts with her wmd on those she deems her enemies or any potential Nephews whose claim to the IT would supersede hers).

Having an explict pol!jon story being properly built up over the later seasons would certainly make it harder to sell that fantasy for the die hard dany/targ fans and could have meant viewship would have suffered...(i.e. there would be enough potential backlash coming from the finale what with Dany's down fall and Jon's role in her death... why risk having any prematurely which could effect earlier ratings/reviews/viewership/etc. when instead they could scrap what remained of that storyline and keep targs stans and targ favoring HBO staff happy for a little while longer)

... or

D) perhaps pol!jon was a halfheartedly planned out and clumsily executed storyline that would become abandoned as an extension of the writer's getting cold feet around the idea of a Jonsa romantic pairing (this may seem a stretch but I find there are some compelling arguments that the show may have been in the know of a book!jonsa endgame and even considered having a show!jonsa endgame only to abandon what they deemed too unpopular a pairing.

Pol!jon is something that would have enhanced the Jonsa undertones that remained present in the show .... i.e. such a theory could amplify the canon strange tension/jealousy exhibited between the three characters as well as the canon aspect of Dany being a threat to Sansa's safety being brought up several times ultimately adding further motivation for Jon to assassinate Dany... all of which would have then been paired with the explicit fact that Jon never felt actual loyalty or love for Dany if the show had confirmed pol!jon... this might have leaned too hard in the direction of jon and sansa as a potential romantic couple an idea that the show was not exactly fully committed to exploring or implying

[bastardofharrenhal]

i think its just a little funny when ppl say that jonsa is just shipping two characters who never interacted and then turn around to ship jonerys

[russian-spider]

sad to see jon fans and dany fans fighting again :( game of thrones did them both dirty. they turned her into a villain and him into a traitor. they killed her and they made him useless. they were both ooc so I don't blame them for their actions, but I see some parts of the fandom still do. I'm very happy to see hotd vindicating dany and I hope some kind of retcon is coming, but I don't want to see this become a new reason to shit on jon. let's not pretend his ending didn't suck. he, too, deserved better than killing the woman he loved after barely contributing to the war that was central to his storyline from day one. I would like to see him acknowledged as a targaryen too and a vital part of the war for the dawn, as he should have been. ofc this show is about a targaryen queen and dany is THE targaryen queen so it makes sense they want to do right by her first and foremost, but... yeah. would be nice to get something about both of them someday.

[saltywinteradult]

How is Dany is abusive to Jon?

Honest question, I’ve never given it a thought

I'm sorry this took me so long, anon, and I am really sorry for how long this post got. I had a lot of thoughts on this.

Before we begin, I'd like to point you to this compilation of Jon's reactions to Dany, which hardly paints a picture of a man who is happy and in love, as well as this post and this gifset, both pointing out the parallels between Jon's relationship with Dany and Sansa's relationship with Littlefinger, the latter being a relationship I hope most people can agree is abusive.

It's absolutely crucial to remember that in this relationship, Dany is the person with the power. She is the one with the dragons and the biggest army, and she is willing to both use and abuse that power to get her way.

Furthermore, Dany wants the North's loyalty, but the North needs her help. (The fact that it's Dany's duty as well as in her own best interest to help fight the Others is a different discussion; she doesn't seem to understand this anyway.) She has agreed to grant that help, but she could easily withdraw it if she chooses. She has more power than literally anyone else and there's simply no escaping that power imbalance - it permeates every single interaction Dany has with Jon and all the other Northerners for all of s7 and the first half of s8.

I want you to remember how Dany treats Jon on Dragonstone. His weapons and his boat are taken away immediately upon his arrival. She says Jon is "not yet" her prisoner, but 1) that line very clearly implies that she could make him her prisoner if she chooses to, and 2) how much does it really matter that Jon is "not yet" her prisoner when she's already taken away his means of defending himself or leaving the island? Remember how she later tells him "I haven't given you permission to leave." Girl, what happened to Jon not being your prisoner?

I think it's also very telling that Dany never once addresses Jon by his proper title of King in the North, even before he bends the knee. As you may recall, Dany cares a great deal about titles. She never grants Jon the same respect she demands for herself, and she likes to remind Jon that she is his Queen even during a supposedly intimate, romantic scene.

(Gif by yocalio via gameofthronesdaily)

Earlier in this scene, Dany pointed out that they could stay here in this secluded spot, away from the kingdom and its politics, and no one would find them. Yet even here, away from the rest of the world, she makes a point of referring to herself as "your Queen".

I point all of this out to illustrate that from the very beginning and throughout their relationship, Dany views Jon as a subordinate, not an equal. That is very much not a good foundation for a healthy and equal romantic relationship. Her constant expectation is that Jon will submit, obey, give things up to benefit her, and ensure that the people he has power over act the way she wants.

Case in point:

"Your sister doesn't like me. [...] She doesn't need to be my friend, but I am her Queen. If she can't respect me..."

The implication is that Sansa is doing something wrong by not liking or respecting Dany (meaning "not acting deferential enough for Dany's taste"). The fact that Dany is saying this to Jon and not to Sansa herself implies that it's Jon's responsibility to ensure that Sansa behaves acceptably. "If she can't respect me..." Then what? What exactly is she implying will be the consequences? That their romantic relationship will end? Something worse?

At this point, the North has bent the knee to Dany. As their monarch this is not an entirely unreasonable thing to ask of her subjects - but it's not a very reasonable thing for a girlfriend to ask of her boyfriend, is it? The line between Jon and Dany's political relationship as monarch and subject and their personal relationship as girlfriend and boyfriend isn't just blurred, it's practically nonexistent. To state the obvious, there is a reason we decided that absolute monarchies are bad here in the real world. There is also a reason why a boss dating a subordinate is frowned upon in the real world. Big power imbalances are a bad idea in general and in romantic relationships especially. They should at the very least be considered and navigated carefully. Dany not only fails to do so; she is only happy with her and Jon's relationship when she has power over him.

For proof, let's look at how she reacts when that power imbalance is upended by the revelation of Jon's true identity:

This revelation is a bombshell for Jon. Everything he thought he knew about his own origins turns out to be untrue. However, Dany's first and only thought is how this affects her. Her first reaction is denial and scepticism; the second is to turn cold as soon as she realises that this makes Jon a threat to her ambitions.

There's also this line:

"A secret no one in the world knew, except your brother and your best friend. Doesn't seem strange to you?"

Which implies... What, exactly? That Sam and Bran made this up? Why? Just like with Sansa in the previous scene, we see Dany questioning the actions and intentions of Jon's loved ones. Remember that.

Things escalate in episode 4:

Dany is faced with the notion that Jon might hold more political power than she thought, that they might actually be on somewhat equal footing, and this makes her unhappy.

"I want it to be the way it was between us."

Her desire is to continue their sexual relationship and to return to the previous status quo where she held more power than him and therefore didn't consider him a threat. Jon having a stronger claim to the throne than her threatens Dany's sense of her own identity and purpose, and she reacts by trying to deny and suppress this reality:

"You can say nothing, to anyone, ever! Swear your brother and Samwell Tarly to secrecy and tell no one else! Or it will take on a life of its own and you won't be able to control it or what it does to people!"

(Imagine this with the genders reversed. Yikes.)

Dany is demanding Jon keep his own identity secret from his own family. That's not a reasonable thing to ask of a person you love. Not for one second does she show any consideration for how Jon might feel or what Jon might want. It's all about her. Her expectation is that Jon suppress his own identity, his own reality, to benefit Dany's ambitions. Never once does it seem to occur to Dany that what Jon does with this secret is up to him to decide, not her. His agency is of no concern to her.

Jon: I have to tell Sansa and Arya. Dany: Sansa will want to see me gone and you on the Iron Throne. [...] She's not the girl you grew up with. Not after what she's seen, not after what they've done to her. [...] Jon: They're my family. We can live together. Dany: We can. I've just told you how.

Here we are again with Dany questioning the motives and agendas of Jon's loved ones. Now she's no longer implying but outright stating that they're working against her. What we have here is a pattern of Dany implying that Jon's loved ones are up to no good and can't be trusted. I don't need to explain why that is a dangerous and manipulative thing to do to one's partner, right?

I also want you to pay extra attention to how Emilia delivers that final line. Throughout the whole scene Dany is distraught and desperate, but at this point she turns cold and closed off with an unmistakable anger that Jon won't agree to do as she demands. It is very hard not to read a threatening undertone into that line. "Keep it secret, or else."

Before we move on to episode 5, I'd like to highlight this line, spoken by Dany to Tyrion and Varys in episode 4:

"Speaking to Cersei will not prevent a slaughter. But perhaps it's good the people see that Daenerys Stormborn made every effort to avoid bloodshed, and Cersei Lannister refused. They should know whom to blame when the sky falls down upon them."

Let's be clear on one thing here: Cersei could choose to back down and surrender to avoid bloodshed - but, and I cannot stress this enough, so could Dany. Cersei and Dany are both being selfish and power-hungry by refusing to give up the throne in order to avoid bloodshed. But to admit that would ruin Dany's deeply rooted self-image as morally superior to her enemies. So what does she do instead? She deflects blame. She's the one with the dragons, but if she makes the sky fall down on people, as she puts it, it's not her fault. Keep that in mind.

Now for the absolute low point:

"What did I say would happen if you told your sister? [...] She betrayed your trust. She killed Varys as much as I did. This was a victory for her. Now she knows what happens when people hear the truth about you."

Okay. Varys was conspiring against Dany, which he could've chosen not to do; I guess Dany was within her rights to punish him. She still could've chosen to imprison him, or at least give him a trial. Nobody made her kill him. But as we've just seen, Dany doesn't like to accept responsibility for her own decisions. She'd rather deflect the blame onto the people who displease her.

What's more, she's not just blaming Sansa for Varys's death but Jon as well, for telling Sansa the secret in the first place - which Jon was well within his rights to do! He never agreed not to tell anyone. That wasn't up to Dany to decide in the first place. Jon did what he wanted to do and not what she wanted him to do, so now everything Dany does as a result of Jon's actions is Jon's fault? Do I even need to explain how shitty this is?

"Far more people in Westeros love you than love me. I don't have love here. I only have fear."

This is entirely true. She never stops to think about why Jon is more beloved in Westeros than she is, but whatever. What's important is that after this, Dany initiates a kiss and Jon rebuffs her.

(Gifs from snowsource)

"Alright then. Let it be fear."

Again, what exactly do we think she's implying here? Remember the context. During this conversation, Jon already told her "you will always be my queen". He hasn't rejected her as his queen (which at this point he damn well should), he's just rejecting her sexual advances. And yet, Dany's reaction to his personal rejection of her is to embrace "fear", which again refers to how all of Westeros sees her, not just Jon. Dany already deflected blame for her previous actions onto people who displeased her including Jon, and now she's deflecting the blame for her future actions in the same way. And we all know what she did after this, don't we? I don't know how the line "let it be fear" can mean anything other than "you rejected me and that's why I'm going to embrace being feared, so whatever I do now in the name of being feared is really your fault. Look what you made me do." If that isn't abuse, I don't know what is.

[rise-my-angel]

Jon Snow, the man who thought burning a man alive was so utterly cruel and inhumane, very publically defied a Kings orders in front of him, and everyone else in attendance, by showing Mance Rayder mercy and shooting an arrow into his heart before the fire could start to engulf him.

Yes I understand why he'd side with miss "I literally dream about my enemies dying screaming as I burn them alive on mass".

Totally justified, the man whose uncle and grandfather were also burned alive, would ever side with the burns alive with flying flame thrower queen whose father was the one who burned his uncle and grandfather alive.

I'm sure Brandon and Rickard Starks deaths had absolutely no impact on the manner in which Jon grew up as someone who thinks burning people alive is a monstrous way to execute someone. I'm sure it doesn't greatly bother him to watch people die the way his uncle and grandfather were murdered.

But hes got secret targ blood so who cares.

[millennial-crone-ao3]

The thing about Jon and Daenerys is:

Lust is not love.

So duty didn't die.

And duty sits right between family and honour in a Tully's eyes.

[minmeemaw]

For ruining Jon & Dany and now Rhaeneyra & Daemon, dear HBO:

[amaltheas-garden]

jon/ygritte lasted 8 chapters and still left a huuuge impact on jon lol saying jonerys won't happen bc "there's no time" is kinda dumb

When Jon was with Ygritte, the chapters were solely focused on Jon learning about the wildlings through his relationship to her. He was an outcast at the bottom of the pecking order clinging to Ygritte as the only ally he had in assimilating himself. ADOS Jon will be a leader in his own right, surrounded by family, and with wayyyy bigger problems than ACoK/ASoS Jon occupying his time. It's hard to see where exactly grrm is going to squeeze in the J/D alone time to develop a proper romance, considering Dany will likewise have her own problems and be on high alert, what with the three betrayals prophecy and having just deposed her nephew, only for a NEW son of Rhaegar with powerful allies to pop up in her quest for the throne. To repeat what I've already said, J/D have one book max together, which will feature the two final cataclysmic battles the series has been working up towards. Undoubtedly there will be a relationship between Jon and Dany, but a romantic one? Jon/Ygritte certainly left an impact, but I'd argue more so for its grizzly end (Jon chooses loyalty to the NW over her, is horrified by her killing of the old man, and is traumatized by cradling her dead body, wondering if it was his arrow that killed her). Jon/Ygritte happened because it was integral to Jon's development, a very different thing to a relationship between two main characters who (I'm assuming) you expect to end the series still in love. Two characters that will meet in the next book, already know a bit about each other, are aligned in political interests and house loyalties, and share the same pain over familial losses is a much easier romantic setup than "hi i'm the most powerful person in the world, i'm invading your kingdom, my dad killed your grandfather, uncle, and tried to kill your beloved "dad" who btw was a userper dog, and also my older brother allegedly kidnapped your mom". I'm sure they'll have some... interesting conversations, but these two characters have such different trajectories that I just can't see grrm forcing a romance plot for the sake of time among other, more significant reasons.

I would also point out that when Grrm does make a sincere attempt at a genuine romance between two fully fleshed out pov characters, a la Jaime/Brienne, he takes his sweet time slowly demonstrating their shifting views of the other, spanning MULTIPLE books, and he's not even done. If Jon is going to have a romance, it will be introduced in TWOW.

In short, the impact Ygritte had on Jon is called trauma, and true love Targ restoration Jonerys ain't happening.

[naetaesarya]

Direwolves not extinct! Means Jonsa! Means Dany is going to die barren! Means no Jonerys!

Direwolves are back! And GRRM has met them! Jonsas think this means Jonsa is going to happen AND that Dany is going to die childless.

Why? Honest to god, when I found this in the grrm tag, I nearly choked on my teeth.

You see, the puppy's handlers at Colossal Biosciences felt the name of Sansa's wolf, Lady, was a bad omen name as she was the first wolf to die and did not want to catch those vibes for the pup (does that mean Jonsas accept Lady's death is a bad omen for Sansa then?) However, Jonsas view this as a big-time win! When the handlers renamed that pup "Khaleesi" instead due to the popularity of the GoT and Daenerys's fanbase per verbatim, Jonsas believe this means bad things are going to happen to Dany in the books! From the CBR article on why they named the pups the way they did:

Colossal Biosciences: In the show, unfortunately, as you know, Lady dies, and so we didn't want to name the first female Lady, because we thought it was a bad omen. So we thought if we named her Khaleesi, you know, obviously, fans of the show and the books would love them. I think the bigger the fans, the more the stars will love them. There are people who are just Hardcore Targaryen fans.

Jonsas:

But wouldn't this mean they have faith Khaleesi is a safer name for the pup than the bad-omen Lady....?

They plan to have a puppy named Ghost in future litters and this means Jonsa is going to happen:

Colossal Biosciences: And so we have the first two brothers, and we didn't want one to be named Ghost, because everyone would just talk about Ghost, and no one would talk about the other one. We were trying to be a little bit more diplomatic and fair to the animals, but you can be assured that probably one of the future ones will be named Ghost.

There's more!!

a. Because GRRM met the puppies and cried, this means GRRM is sharing future plots with Colossal Biosciences and Jonsa is going to happen.

b. Because one article mentions how Kit Harington and Sophie Turner are into wolves, book!Jonsa is going to happen

c. Because the Khaleesi puppy is not in the breeding program, this means Jonerys is toast and Jonsa is going to happen.

But wouldn't that mean the pup they were planning to name Lady wasn't going to be in the breeding program...? There's more!

d. Because the vet technicians were singing a song from The Little Mermaid, this means Jonsa is going to happen.

Guys, we might as well accept it, Jonsa is happening ;0;

So because 'Lady' is a bad omen name and CB didn't want that energy for one of these pups, doesn't that mean they view Khaleesi as a safer name? And if Jonsas are using their "Dany will die as a villain" rhetoric to mean the renamed Khaleesi is all bad omens for the pup, does that mean a puppy named Ghost (wolf of the currently-dead Jon) is a pup meant to die as well? Do they honestly believe that how these puppies were named in present time indicates what GRRM is basing his plots on? CB better not name a puppy 'Summer' either or GRRM will give too much away 😬😬😬

[izzy140105]

i know it's been 2 days from the jon incest anon, but in the books, he has MUCH better people to choose from. val, satin? and in this scenario, even isabelle. like, sorry that not everyone wants to commit incest..

THANK YOU!! It's good to see people with sense 😌 also 100% there are so many better people for Jon to choose from, books and show!! Like I'd rather see him end up with Tormund then see him with his LITTLE SISTERS!!

Also, yes, let's normalise this 👇 instead.

I mean just look at them... Not related... Hot af... Speaks for itself honestly 🫣🤭

[lovedreamer11]

Jonerys and Daemyra are my favorite couples in the asoiaf universe

And they were both destroyed by the HBO 😭

[agentrouka-blog]

GRRM hates fanfic and has already shut down Sansa/Sandor and Jon/Arya shippers before, why do you think he never denied Jon/Dany?

The former two pairings are comparatively easy to dismiss, I imagine, because they are pretty out there as far as probability goes. He's not giving anything away by being fairly unambiguous about rejecting the option. It really isn't a credible line of speculation.

Outright denying the very possibility of Dany and Jon as love interests, on the other hand, does take away from the game of "see with your eyes" and unreliable narrators that he has set up from the beginning. There's still plenty of people who will not believe Dany is on a villain arc because her own POV obviously portrays her as the hero of her own story, surrounded by otherwise a sycophant like Barristan who doesn't question her at all, or a figure set up to be more obviously unreliable in his own way, naive and uncertain Quentyn, whom Dany considers the "sun's son". Nothing explicitly hinders people from falling for her delusions if they aren't inclined to critical thinking. Which is how he challenges the reader.

An outright denial of the classic expectation for a female heroine, of a romantic entanglement with the elligible hero, would really shake that up because GRRM hasn't presented other credible attractive options on that front in Westeros, so if genuine romance is not in Dany's future at all... what is she working towards, thematically?

He'd be spoiling his own set-up.

He also hasn't outright denied Jonsa, btw. Just refused to comment.

[saltywinteradult]

jon*rys shippers be like ”you hate jon*rys for being incest but then you ship jonsa!!! hypocrite!!!” actually i hate jon*rys because dany is abusive to jon and a tyrant in the making. hope that helps