#asoiaf/got meta

[crimsoncold]

What is pol!Jon?

It a short form tag that stands for political jon. Essentially an explanation theorized and popularized by a number of people in asoiaf/game of thrones fandom in an attempt to explain some of the very questionable if not outright out of character choices that writer's made on game of thrones for Jon Snow in the later seasons concerning his entire storyline since encountering Daenerys.

Essentially its a theory that stands by the idea that the only way Jon's action and choices could make sense were if Jon's interactions with Daenerys and her allies were not of a genuine nature (i.e. he had no genuine loyalty, affection, love, or trust in her or her advisors/army) but rather everything he was doing and saying amounted to him "playing" the game and doing whatever was necessary to gain her help (i.e. her army and dragons) in the war against the dead, but also to keep his family members and subjects safe from Dany's wrath once he brought her north, and potentially even to maneuver/keep himself in a position where he would be close enough to take Daenerys out all together should it prove necessary to eliminate someone who had proved to be an obvious threat (i.e. before she could cause mass murder and destruction via her dragons, or attempt to greviously harm Jon himself or his "siblings"- the latter at least Jon was successful with)

Essentially it holds to the idea that Jon would have had to have clocked Daenerys as a temporarily necessary "evil" but ultimately also a likely a very dangerous person who would have to be carefully managed to keep her on track and from outright imploding and he then acted (i.e. lied) accordingly (honestly not exactly unlike how her own advisors tended to treat her... as someone useful and powerful who they hoped to influence/guide to some desired outcome/ruler while also having to offset her ever present dangerous desire to take the easy road- i.e. screw the consequences wipe out any and all of her "enemies" with dragon fire).

This theory was meant to offer a more sensible and in character explanation for him bending the knee, becoming her lover, him acting as if he believed she really was a good queen or a ruler any different than the several other violent destructive and/or fire-obsessed ones that came before her.

One that wouldn't require the audience to accept that Jon had just suddenly and without explanation had a personality transplant, becoming incredibly foolishly trusting, a exceptionally bad judge of character, and willing to follow and submit to someone who was not just personally disrespectful to him and his family but who also burned countless people alive, is intending to invade westeros, forcefully take independence away from the north, while also directly threatening Jon's own beloved family.

Support for the idea that Jon would never sincerely trust or feel affection for Dany comes from various things such as...

1. The general lack of any affection/passion/happiness being displayed by Jon when interacting with Daenerys. That feels like a very intentional and suspect choice that is unlikely to have solely been the decision of Kit Harrington or simply due to a general lack of chemistry between him and Emilia Clarke. (Storytelling is more than just the performers... other people on set had to have been involved in creating even the possibility of this political Jon narrative)

Just compare scenes of Jon with any number of characters (his Stark siblings- Sansa in particular, Sam or any of his other nightswatch friends, Tormund or even Ygritte) and it seems obvious to conclude that his interactions with Dany lack true happiness/comradery/affection.

2. How many scenes between characters were being framed in the show.. a number of which seemed to point the audience towards the conclusion that something is quite suspect with this whole dynamic between Dany and her Northern and other Westeros Allies.

Serving to foreshadow Dany as an ultimate aggressor and villain for these characters but also currently establishing a noticeable tension- both a jealousy and a sense of isolation...a lack of belonging or trust between Dany and these characters- all of which hints to the idea that Jon was always loyal to the Starks and The North while Daenerys always remained an unaccepted and untrusted outsider, someone that Jon would attempt to placate and manage but never actually endeavored to truly welcome, include, or help integrate into his family or his people (which one may typically expect a man would do for a foreigner lover that he had brought to an unfamiliar place and people to introduce her to his family, his home, his friends, his culture, and his homeland ... that is if said man were actually in love with this woman or had a even a modicum of affection for her).

For evidence see almost any scene with Jon + Sansa + Dany, Dany + Sansa, Dany + the Northerners, Jon + Greyworm.

3. Jon's book or (perhaps to a lesser degree) his established show canon personalities and familial background.

Him having been established as more intelligent and strategic than how he appeared in the later seasons, his protectiveness and nobility, him being at times ruthless, his willingness to compromise his honor when it's necessary for his own life/saftey or that of others... all of which would correspond better to a pol!jon theory than to the idea that he so quickly and inexplicably fell truly in love with, became loyal to, and strangely willingly so passive to a person like Dany.

His previous history and interactions with other villainous characters who choose to use fire for human sacrifice/execution not unlike the way Daenerys does repeatedly (think Stannis or Melisandre, he didn't like them, found their actions abhorrent, he actively worked to oppose them when he could/when it was the right thing to do),

The general history between House Targaryen and Stark (Lyanna's assumed abduction and rape by the brother Dany admires, and the horrific and brutal killing of his Grandfather and Uncle by Dany's King Father, the resulting uprising that Jon's beloved late "father" took part in to overthrow said king) which by itself is enough reason for him not to readily trust any Targaryen

That's all without even looking at Dany's own personal actions that indicate she, much like other various terrible Targ rulers/ancestors is also an incredibly dangerous individual (one unwilling to look to and learn from the past, to unlearn the sense of targaryen superiority she was raised with, or accept the reality of her family members/ancestors, a conqueror who strength lies in her military might and her willingness to kill en masse via dragon fire rather than in an interest in say labouring to earn the loyalty and acceptance of westeros, in handling the details and minutiae of ruling, or striving towards improving her general political acuity).

Lastly because his willingness and ability to infiltrate, manipulate, lie to, and otherwise feign going along with until the time is right to "strike" (while still not actually abandoning his original duty or loyalty) to the people who qualify as an enemey has already been established (including ones he- reluctantly or under coercion- engages with in a romantic or sexual relationship) through his dealings with Ygritte and the other Free Folk.

Essentially fans were unimpressed with the choices and explanations from the writers/showrunners and were trying to come up with their own more reasonable explanation for Jon's later storyline (beyond the simple fact that the show's writing quality in general had suffered in the later seasons, and that the writer's seemed to forget that several houses - including the starks you know the unofficial heart of the story- were significant and that GOT wasn't ever supposed to be the Dany & DRAGONS!!!! Show ft. everyone else) which cumulated in this jon as a political actor (i.e. a strategic manipulator who is working on the behalf of the collective good of the north, or really humanity itself) theory.

So considering all these facts (plus undoubtedly some I couldn't recall simply off the top of my head) a number of fans saw that a reasonable or even somewhat satisfying explanation for Jon's later season's arc/storyline had to be pol!jon... though people may vary on how canon they think this theory is.

Some may think it does make considerable sense and accept it as headcanon but not believe it was an intentional decision by the writers- thus it's something that is applicable in fandom spaces but is not actually a canon theory.

Others believe pol!jon was a storyline that was actually originally planned out and initiated by the writers but was one that would ultimately fall off and never be properly or explicitly addressed in the show itself- or even acknowledged behind the scenes.

Explanations for this generally are various (unconfirmed and speculative) theories that it was scrapped because the show had second thoughts because....

a) Perhaps the show wasn't interested in or able to devote enough time to properly focus on Jon's character arc in the last leg of the show (not at all unlike the treatment of several other major characters), so this storyline wasn't explicity kept up

b) Maybe because they wanted to make Dany's downfall some supposed huge exciting twist for the audience and thus could no longer have an established heroic and generally liked character explicity be shown as as treating Dany as a villain so far in advance from her downfall as it could raise questions on Dany's ultimate role in the series potentially ruining their oh so amazing twist,

C) More cynically speaking it could have been from a desire to avoid any early on backlash from the large, very invested, and profitable, dany-stan/targ centric/jonerys part of fandom who were banking on a "happy" ending with Dany successfully taking power, being accepted in westeros (and the north with Jon as her consort), making for a glorious return of the dragons and a full targ restoration in Westeros with good queen Dany who would be beloved by all (regardless of the atrocities she enacts with her wmd on those she deems her enemies or any potential Nephews whose claim to the IT would supersede hers).

Having an explict pol!jon story being properly built up over the later seasons would certainly make it harder to sell that fantasy for the die hard dany/targ fans and could have meant viewship would have suffered...(i.e. there would be enough potential backlash coming from the finale what with Dany's down fall and Jon's role in her death... why risk having any prematurely which could effect earlier ratings/reviews/viewership/etc. when instead they could scrap what remained of that storyline and keep targs stans and targ favoring HBO staff happy for a little while longer)

... or

D) perhaps pol!jon was a halfheartedly planned out and clumsily executed storyline that would become abandoned as an extension of the writer's getting cold feet around the idea of a Jonsa romantic pairing (this may seem a stretch but I find there are some compelling arguments that the show may have been in the know of a book!jonsa endgame and even considered having a show!jonsa endgame only to abandon what they deemed too unpopular a pairing.

Pol!jon is something that would have enhanced the Jonsa undertones that remained present in the show .... i.e. such a theory could amplify the canon strange tension/jealousy exhibited between the three characters as well as the canon aspect of Dany being a threat to Sansa's safety being brought up several times ultimately adding further motivation for Jon to assassinate Dany... all of which would have then been paired with the explicit fact that Jon never felt actual loyalty or love for Dany if the show had confirmed pol!jon... this might have leaned too hard in the direction of jon and sansa as a potential romantic couple an idea that the show was not exactly fully committed to exploring or implying

[crimsoncold]

It does feel very fitting that both characters get taken out due to their own actions and in a similar fashion to the ways they enacted incredible harm and destruction upon others.

Littlefinger, a courtly figure who schemes, ingratiates, manipulates, uses, and betrays people from behind the scenes (everyone from powerful lords and royalty to vulnerable helpless young girls) in his own ongoing quest for power, who so prizes his own intelligence subtly and ability to read and manipulate people

= his plans not only failing but his own arrogance being what leads to his downfall, all his scheming and the immense wealth and power he accumulated will be meaningless in the end, his so prized cunning not enough to save him or keep him from being out smarted, getting exposed publically in court (the very environment he had so thrived in), made powerless and helpless the way he has made other people and "allies" feel, sentenced/executed based on the testimonies of his victims, him being "betrayed" by the pawns he deemed unimportant or thought he had total control over

It would not surpise me if it is the more helpless amongst his victims that survive him and are directly or indirectly responsible for him being brought to justice, i.e. Jeyne Poole, Sansa Stark...

(one a steward's girl deemed unimportant by others beyond what use they can make of her, taken by Baelish and subjected to terrible abuse as a result, the other a girl the very image of her mother- the woman he had coveted his whole life much like he covets the daughter now and who he had ultimately betrayed to a violent traumatic end- but who also will embody the spirit and nature of her just father- the very man who littlefinger hated and betrayed to his death and whose role Petyr essentially tried to assume in his ongoing attempts to manipulate and groom Sansa... as if it's not just his surviving victims rising up to get justice but in a way the memory/spirit of the unjustly murdered ones demanding justice from beyond the grave... just as he never got to possess Lady Catelyn he will ultimately not ever really have or control her and Ned's daughter and his recklessness in his attempt to do so will help ensure his end)

...as I think these victims (with the right protection/ allies/backing) will have enough knowledge of littlefinger's misdeeds for both the vale and the north to rightfully demand his head.

Ramsay a horrifically violent unhinged monster who revels in perversity and the power he feels he attains through breaking, torturing, and murdering his victims

= recieves an equally painful and horrfic death as the ones his victims experienced, stripped of all sense of control, power, or renown/notoriety as he has a brutal, but otherwise unnoteworthy and meaningless, death in a fitting state of helplessness at the jaws of his own starving dogs (that are, perhaps rather befittingly in this scenario, named after his past victims); he and the fear and the so called power he has accumulated will mean nothing in the end as he dies either entirely alone/in obscurity much like the victims he deemed helpless and unimportant enough to be his targets OR after the followers/victims around him refuse to cow to his threats or demands to save him from his gruesome fate.

These are ends that would be fitting for the types of crimes/atrocities these villains committed while also being satisfying because they a) are the consequence of their own actions/hubris and b) the story gets to stay true to the characterization of those who would be in the position to see these men put to justice i.e. the Starks (in this house we want ramsay to be eaten alive by his own dogs but not at the expense of the nature, identity, or arc of any of the Starks!)

I might be a square, but I’d prefer it in the books if Littlefinger and Ramsay are put on trial for their crimes with evidence (Jeyne could be there) and executed lawfully. That was one of my gripes with Battle of the Bastards, even though it was “poetic justice” for Ramsay to be killed by his own starving dogs. I also don’t think Stannis will be the one to do it. 🤷‍♀️

I agree 100%

I absolutely think that Littlefinger will be convicted in a trial and executed according to the law. Perhaps not for all of his crimes, but for one that they can legally prove. He will be outsmarted, but legally.

Ramsay, though, I think GRRM won't place in court. He would deserve it and it wouldn't be hard to sentence him to death the moment they get some testimony that it was him who slaughtered Rodrik Cassel's small besieging force and sacked Winterfell while his father was officially loyal to House Stark. Or, you know, the numerous cases of cruel murder. For precisely that reason, GRRM probably won't go that way. He'll likely have Ramsay felled by his own hubris in some way that's closer to Drogo dying of sepsis from a wound he refused to treat. The guy named his dogs after his murder victims. He won't be fed to them in a helpless state. He'll be the cause of his own demise in some way, probably leaving himself injured in a (human) hunt gone wrong, the dogs starving, used to the taste of human flesh, no one around or vwilling to prevent it. An ignomous, helpless, violent end he can't threaten or manipulate his way out of. Stripped of all pretense of power.

The show's mistake was not the dogs, it was thinking that cold-blooded murder was a good girlboss moment for Sansa.

[winterprince601]

the battle between the starks and the lannisters at the twins in got is actually a battle between the parenting of ned stark and tywin lannister.

this is the first battle to which tyrion brings his vale mountain clan soldiers and tywin places him in the left vanguard, essentially as a diversion/sacrifice. he does not share his strategy, as outlined above, with tyrion because he claims he doesn't 'trust' him. he assumes tyrion will fail and so when he succeeds, it upsets his plans.

he expects as little from robb stark, an untried boy. but what he doesn't understand is that ned has prepared his son for leadership. he hasn't hoarded his authority from him, desperate for dominance over everyone including his family. he's brought robb with him when he carried out his duties as a lord. he's educated him in battle strategy but more importantly, he has not glamorised war to him. robb is not eager to go plunging into battle and he's not battling for the sake of it. he knows the burden of his responsibility as a lord and he even knows when to delegate it: tywin's first shock was that the freys were in the stark host because robb trusted his mother to negotiate a hard bargain on his behalf. all of this contrasts tywin's neglect of tyrion and even his adulation of jaime's prowess - in the same chapter before the battle, he admonishes tyrion: "does the thought of facing the stark boy unman you, tyrion? your brother jamie would be eager to come to grips with him." ironically the kind of foolhardy behaviour he expects and criticises from robb, he encourages in jaime. this is because tywin doesn't actually want an heir to succeed his rule, he wants a shiny trophy to flatter it. only of course, tywin is not immortal. as this chapter foreshadows, his inability to parent or relinquish any power will be his undoing.

[tell-them-the-north-remembers]

If there is one line I like to over-analyze in the ASoIAF books it is a rather famous thought that goes inside Cat's head before her death. As the steel is close to her throat Cat thinks "No, don’t, don’t cut my hair, Ned loves my hair." And this line and her entire inner monologue is absolutely heart-breaking but one thing I fixate on is the actual sentence itself.

"Ned loves my hair."

Anyone who has read the books knows that Cat holds contempt for the fact that except for Arya, she has failed to give Ned children who look like him. It is also one of the reasons she dislikes Jon so much, because the mother of Jon (who she assumes to be Ned's bastard son) has managed to give Ned a child that looks just like him while she, his lawfully wedded wife gave birth to five of his children only for four of them to come out looking exactly like her. Red hair, blue eyes. Unlike Jon (and Arya) who share Ned's dark hair and dark eyes.

And knowing that it is so interesting to me that Cat's last thought about Ned (and her last thought ever) was that Ned loves her hair.

Because Ned loved her, he loved her hair, he loved her the way she was. And every time he looked at Robb, Sansa, Bran and Rickon he saw the reflection of the woman he loved, while Cat was so upset that they weren't all reflections of the man she loved.

Every time Ned ran his fingers through their hair, he ran his fingers through the hair of the woman he loved. He never resented Cat for the fact that four of his children didn't look like him, he loved that they looked like their mother, again, the woman he loved so much. He loved that they had the same hair he loved on Cat, and judging by it being her last thought Cat also knew that Ned loved her hair (and the way she looked), whether she ever came to the realization that Ned was perfectly happy with the way their children looked at all, or if she realized after he was dead and it was too late, it is unclear. But all those years she beat herself up over nothing.

Ned loved her the way she was, Ned loved his children the way they were, when they looked like him and when they didn't. Because when they didn't look like him, they looked like the love of his life, his darling wife.

And if the books decide to go with R+L=J it also adds another layer to Cat and Ned's relationship. Because Jon's mother was always a woman she didn't know but was still competing with in her mind for Ned's love for all these years. Turns out she didn't even exist. Turns out she didn't need to feel inferior to the woman Ned loved enough to not even talk about with her, no need to feel bad about the fact that she was able to give Ned a child that looked like him while Cat "failed".

At the end of the day, all the voices in her head making her feel insecure in her marriage never needed to be there, because everything she thought of as a problem with her were not problems at all for Ned. He was perfectly happy with her and their children.

[asha-mage]

I think the philosophical difference between Wheel of Time and Game of Thrones's class politics is best shown in how they depict their servant characters.

Take Lini and Lars as really good examples: they are a nurse and cook respectively, and lack any sort of structural power or protection at all, something they both are very aware of. But despite their relatively low place in society they are still principled, intelligent, women who the narrative treats with a lot of respect. Lars's acts of mercy and courage come up repeatedly- from refusing to be part of what she sees as unjust punishments of novices in The Dragon Reborn, to smuggling Siuan, Leane and Min to safety in The Shadow Rising, to being ready to break Egwene free of her imprisonment herself in Knife of Dreams. Keyly, Lars does all this not out of any loyalty to other more powerful characters, but entirely because of her own sense of right and wrong. She has no concern for the shifts in Tower politics because that is completely out of her control and she knows it. Rather she makes choices based entirely on what she thinks is right, refusing to be complicit in something she thinks is wrong and taking huge risks to do what she can for others whenever the opportunity presents itself.

In the same vein Lini, while personally loyal to Morgase and her family, is one of the few people in Morgase's life who is willing to treat her as a human being first and a Queen second: speaking her mind even when she knows it will upset Morgase, giving honest advice and wisdom, and generally refusing to acknowledge the huge power gap in their relationship- and Morgase not only allows this but clearly values it, even when it makes her angry, because with Lini she doesn't have to have any pretense, and she can trust the sincerity of Lini's words in a way she can't with courtiers and other rulers. When Lini helps Morgase escape the palace in The Fires of Heaven, she isn't doing it out of fealty to her Queen the way the rest of the team is. She is doing it because she cares for Morgase as a individual, and as a girl she helped raise to adulthood. As they continue on the run, the nuance and complexities of their relationship are explored more heavily- particularly after Morgase abdicates, and Lini's loyalty endures, because it was never about Morgase's throne or her power, but her as a person.

Contrast that with the way Games of Thrones depicts it's servants. The only ones who receive any real depth of character exploration are a few of the House Stark servants, and even then they exist largely as extensions of their masters. Old Nan and Hodor lack agency of their own, and they are not treated as having value by the narrative as independent characters, or having interior lives, motivations, or relationships to complexly explore. Even if we stretch the definition of servant to include a clerical tutor like Septa Mordane and the (presumably) commoner born Knight Rodrik Cassel this picture doesn't improve- because the primary role of both is to suffer and be harmed as a way to hurt other, more important characters.

And this is something you can walk out to pretty much the entire way the two worlds are built. Every time Jordan shows off a new place from Fal Dara to the Waste he remembers to answer the question 'who is cleaning the chamber pots and cooking the meals the sweeping the streets'- and some of his most interesting world building details from the Aiel gai'shain, to the structure of Borderlander's households via the shambayan and shatayan are born of his answers. More over he remembers that those people have humanity: their own wants, needs, and beliefs that are important to them even if they aren't important players in the scope of the narrative. Even if our heroes are stopping at a random inn for a single night, Jodan doesn't forget to show that inn is staffed with people who are going about their own lives entirely independently of the main characters who just wandered in.

By contrast the commoners in Westeros are largely invisible except when they are being impacted by the actions of the noble characters. The idea of the 'small folk' is presented as this nebulous concept, a vaguely homogeneous monolith that in theory is supposed to matter to the nobles but in practice doesn't really- which would an interesting class commentary if the narrative didn't also treat them that way- as if their only real value is being the foundation on which these power struggles are being fought. We're not encouraged to empathize with the cook, or the street sweeper, or the maid gathering laundry because we're not directed to notice them unless they are being a problem, which is exactly how all the nobles in Game of Thrones behave. There's also no nuance or complexity to the relationships between servants and their masters- it is only an expectation of simple obedience, and no energy is ever expended on the relationships between servants at all.

Wheel of Time from the beginning takes the position that everyone maters- maybe not to the fates of nations and the path of destiny, but to themselves and to the story that is being told. Game of Thrones takes the position that only nobles matter and everyone else matters only in relation to them- which for a story ultimately about an aristocratic civil war is fine, but it limits the depth of the world and the ability to say anything meaningful about class or society.

[babylonfelldown]

I saw a tiktok about Jon and Theon and it made me remember how fuking insane their dynamic is

They're broken mirrors of each other: both of them just want the starks to see them as family, they want to feel wanted, they envy and hate each other.

Theon is a trueborn son of a great house, an heir even, but at the same time he's treated as a squire and a ward when convenient, (he helps Ned and Robb), he's also seen as a hostage and a threat, never quite trustworthy. He says repeatedly that he never felt wellcome by the Starks and that the only one to have any affection for him was Robb. Theon dreams to be wed to Sansa, not because he loves her, but because them he would be a son for Ned. He envies Jon because even being a bastard he's loved by Ned (ln a way neither Ned or his actual father loved him), his sibilings (all of them) love him, even if Lady Stark doesn't like him, he is family in Theon's eyes.

Jon is a bastard, he's a shame that must remain hidden, it doesn't matter how much Ned or his sibilings love him, he will never be a true Stark in the eyes of westerosi society. He is trusted but his loyality is always at question, Jon is a threat to Robb's claim in many peoples eyes, like he wants his brothers birthright, and the worst of it all is: he does. He desperately wants to be a trueborn son, but he loves Robb deeply, more than he could ever wish to be legitimate. He envies Theon because he is a trueborn son, he is an heir, he will get to have a wife and children of his own, legitimate children that won't be called names.

Truely insane dynamic of hatred and envy that culminates with both of them trying to one up each other on everything.

[witchthewriter]

𝑷𝑨𝑹𝑻 𝑶𝑵𝑬: 𝐇𝐨𝐰 𝐞𝐚𝐜𝐡 𝐟𝐞𝐦𝐚𝐥𝐞 𝐀𝐒𝐎𝐈𝐀𝐅 𝐜𝐡𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐜𝐭𝐞𝐫 𝐰𝐨𝐮𝐥𝐝 𝐫𝐮𝐥𝐞

a/n: I will be doing this by House! Also, yes it doesn't make sense timeline wise but think of each as an alternate universe ✧˚ ༘ ⋆｡♡˚

𝑯𝑶𝑼𝑺𝑬 𝑻𝑨𝑹𝑮𝑨𝑹𝒀𝑬𝑵

𝑫𝒂𝒆𝒏𝒆𝒓𝒚𝒔 | 𝑴𝒐𝒕𝒉𝒆𝒓 𝒐𝒇 𝑫𝒓𝒂𝒈𝒐𝒏𝒔

・She did as she promised and liberated Westeros.

・No Mad Queen, but sacrifices were made. However, all three of her dragons survived.

・The Long Night was vanquished because Dany was The Prince Who Was Promised.

・In a turn of events, Viserion was not a male dragon. Dany didn't have three sons... she had two and a daughter!

・Viserion laid her clutch of eggs not far from Dany as she wanted her to be the first person to see them.

・Her clutch of eggs produced three beautiful dragons; the biggest was a deep blue with flecks of gold and bronze. The second was a gorgeous pink egg with light orange accents and the last was purple with pearlescent swirling details.

・Dany became a grandmother and as soon as she saw them hatch, she cried.

・Barely anyone was allowed to see the dragonlings; even though she had risen to power, she still felt the eyes of enemies on her back. Many would love to hurt these new dragons.

・Dany still did not have a pregnancy that came to full term; so her dragons were truly her legacy, with Viserion keeping the magic back in the world.

・The hatching of these new eggs made the realm respect her even more.

・She didn't have a traditional way of ruling; yes she had councilors, and a small council.

・But the wealth was distributed equally. With smallfolk able to have jobs and acquire ones that usually only nobles had.

・Speaking of small councils, she had two of her closest bloodriders, Greyworm, Missendai (yes she is alive, well and thriving), Ellaria Sand and Samwell Tarly (Gilly and their son live in the Red Keep).

・As Dany could not have biological human children of her own, she basically saw every child/orphan as her own, in some way or another. She saw herself in them. Her childhood of always on the run, dirty clothes, knotted hair, clasping her brother's hand.

・She didn't want that for any child.

・So Dany spent a lot of her time building safe houses, schools, places where children could go and feel seen, heard and feel protected.

・A different Westeros was forming and many did not like that. Uprisings were frequent. Always from the Faith of the Seven & the old nobles.

・But every time they were stopped. However, those that repeated were thrown into prison (and therefore used to create new buildings) or were put to death.

(P.s., Ellaria Sand is her book self, not her show self because they are entirely different. Some events from the show never happened because it made no sense for Dany to wait so long to break the wheel.)

𝑹𝒉𝒂𝒆𝒏𝒚𝒓𝒂 | 𝑻𝒉𝒆 𝑸𝒖𝒆𝒆𝒏 𝒐𝒇 𝑫𝒓𝒂𝒈𝒐𝒏𝒔

・She won against her brother and sat the Iron Throne with a tired heart. Rhaenyra lost a lot more than she could handle and her days were spent fighting off her grief.

・That did not stop her from being the best queen she could be.

・Her energy was given to the people, to the dragons and to the restructure of House Targaryen.

・Since the Greens had nearly torn what it was to be a Targaryen, Rhaenyra had a lot to do. So, she depended on those who were loyal to her. Baela, Addam, Corlys, etc.

・Oh, and not to forget Syrax.

・Syrax kept a lot of people in check when they came to court.

・As the dragon pit was partially destroyed (the dragons were okay though, they survived, help came just in time!) the living dragons now roamed to find a proper place to live. Dragonstone became a lot more populated.

・The love of the dragons would be reintroduced. One way she would do that, would be to reinstate the idolisation of the dragons. I.e., basically showing off the dragons.

・So, more royal processions atop dragons.

・As a skilled dragonrider herself, Rhaenyra may have placed greater emphasis on the role of dragons and their riders in the defense and governance of the realm.

・It would not always be easy. Especially with the fact that Rhaenyra's rise to power involved the killing of her own nephew, Aegon II. This would cast a long shadow over her reign and create lingering resentment among some factions.

・But through the influence of Mysaria, the smallfolk and those less fortunate would definitely be focused on. No more fighting pits! (Let's remember that Aegon frequented them...)

・Additionally, through Rhaenyra's victory, there would be a shift in the balance of power among the noble houses. For example; The Hightowers, who backed Aegon II, might have lost influence, while the Velaryons and other supporters of Rhaenyra might have gained prominence. This is all up in the air however, as Rhaenyra did have a forgiving heart... (I mean, before all the war...)

・What I know to be true, is that Rhaenyra would have maintained a strong dragon presence in King's Landing. Positively - this would have deterred potential threats and rebellions. And also led to a more prominent role for the dragonriders in the governance of the realm.

𝑹𝒉𝒂𝒆𝒏𝒚𝒔 | 𝑻𝒉𝒆 𝑸𝒖𝒆𝒆𝒏 𝑾𝒉𝒐 𝑾𝒂𝒔

・Is in history books as one of the best rulers

・Balanced, open-minded and level-headed; Rhaenys didn't need a council - she was one all on her own.

・She grew up never thinking she would rule; so she was quiet and watched everyone's moves

・The Sea Snake was a brilliant King-Consort, still the leader of Driftmark

・Meleys was truly The Red Queen; her own horns and spikes resembled Rhaenys' crown and when they were together, they were utterly breathtaking

・As said before with the others, with Rhaenys and her dragon, Meleys, in a position of power, the presence of dragons would have been more pronounced in the governance of the realm. This could have deterred potential rebellions and solidified her authority

・A lot of her reign would reflect her own grandmother's - The Good Queen Alysanne. 100% Rhaenys would continue with the women's councils.

・The women of Westeros would be given opportunities. I think Rhaenys would take a lot of inspiration from Dorne. And how women were equal to men, because why the hell not?

・And as a dragon rider, who was going to tell her no? Meleys was definitely not about to let anyone defy her either.

・However, one of her greatest allies was the North.

・And due to the North's historical resistance to female leadership, her ability to assert authority and govern effectively would sway Northern lords to reconsider their biases against women on the throne.

・So, by demonstrating strong leadership, it fostered greater acceptance of her rule among Northern houses, and increased their loyalty.

・This is only one example of how she got herself written in the history books.

𝑩𝒂𝒆𝒍𝒂 | 𝑻𝒉𝒆 𝑸𝒖𝒆𝒆𝒏 𝒐𝒇 𝒕𝒉𝒆 𝑺𝒌𝒊𝒆𝒔

・Known for her bravery and strong character, Baela brought a fresh perspective to the Iron Throne. She prioritized unity among tTeam Black and Team Green and those that chose between Rhaenyra and Aegon.

・Baela addressed the grievances from various houses and the common folk alike - making a more equitable society.

・Jace's death was a great grief. As was ... basically all her family. It was quickly pushed forward that she needed to marry.

・Baela shut that shit down quick.

・She swore that if she were to marry, she would choose who and when.

・The scars left by the civil war were still fresh in the minds of many houses. Those that aligned with the Greens, sought to undermine Baela's rule, viewing her as a representative of the Blacks. This historical animosity had led to plots and conspiracies aimed at destabilizing her reign

・But it is mainly through the dragons that Baela remained in control. As charming, bold and brave Baela can be, Moondancer ... reinforced people's loyalty. With the death of the majority of Team Green as well as their dragons, there was only other Houses to oppose her.

・She was also known as 'Our Queen of the Skies'. And after ruling for more than 20 years, the people saw Baela as a goddess.

・Some say she was part dragon herself, with how much she was in the air, flying on Moondancer (who many, many children adored.)

・Many rumors grew which made Baela seem impossibly mysterious

・It made the people respect her; and therefore they listened to what she had to say.

・Even the others in court grew to respect her.

・Baela, much like Alysanne, had a ladies court in which she listened to the problems they had.

・Spare food was always given to the smallfolk, unlike other rulers who gave it to the dogs or horses.

・Baela's approach to governance altered the trajectories of other key figures in the realm

・Her leadership focused on healing the divisions within the realm, strengthening alliances, and leveraging the power of dragons to maintain peace and order.

𝑹𝒉𝒂𝒆𝒏𝒂 | 𝑻𝒉𝒆 𝑷𝒆𝒐𝒑𝒍𝒆'𝒔 𝑸𝒖𝒆𝒆𝒏

・Yes! her name reflects Princess Diana's real life title, 'The People's Princess'!

・Her reign would be known as one of peace.

・Well, not only peace, but a unique one as well.

・Rhaena addressed the grievances of the common folk and fostered goodwill among the people of both regions through fair governance and an empathic approach.

・The People's Queen shocked many, many people with how strategic she showed herself to be.

・She did this by navigating the political landscape and carefully addressing the concerns of powerful houses in both the North and the South which led to stability.

・Used her access to dragons as a symbol of authority and a powerful military asset to deter rebellion and reinforce her position.

・Rhaena's dragon Morning, hatched during the Dance of the Dragons and kept growing

・She was a very friendly dragon - similar to Silverwing, and didn't mind being paraded around

・Her experience with the devastation of the Dance of the Dragons, made Rhaena prioritize healing the rifts within the realm.

・Rhaena had strong ties to both the dragonriders and the great naval power of House Velaryon. This continued an emphasis on the Targaryen dominance of the skies, and the Velaryon's dominance on the seas.

・Rhaena's reign ushered in a cultural renaissance. The People's Queen promoted the arts, literature, and education. Her leadership style encouraged creativity and innovation, reflecting a more progressive and enlightened era in Westeros.

[polysucks]

what do you think sandor's unnamed sister?.

If she lives , which house she can marry?

okay so I ended up writing a whole like character sheet about the sister Clegane. But then I erased it bc I got nervous.

anyway I'll give you the shorthand

I think if Sister Clegane survived, she would run away from the home the same time Sandor did. I think to protect her, Sandor would take her under his wing--a sort of unofficial squire type position. I don't think she would be very ladylike, per se, having grown up in such a rough household where she would be forced to fight back, and with the violence expected of both her and Sandor due to Gregor's public image.

if she found a husband to look past her public image, and the gossip about her house and her person, she would have to marry equivalent or down from her station. House Clegane aren't highborn by any means, they're equivalent to gentry as Landed Knights. She could be able to marry among the likes of houses Templeton, Dayne, Dalt, or even Connington.

Also have some art because i got all in my head about Sandor being a big brother mentoring his sister and like. them fighting with each other as warriors n shit. ;-;

[fanfictionroxs]

Alicent being a victim to a council of misogynist men being a 'gotcha' moment for some fans really shows their true mentality. This isn't about feminism to these fans, Rhaenyra is just a shield they use to hide their own misogyny with feminism. Otherwise Alicent's circumstances are so clear to even casual watchers (especially in an episode where both her and Rhaenyra have parallel scenes having their council speaking over them). A child bride forced to operate in the patriarchy to protect her kids, that girl getting thrown aside by men, isn't 'payback' or karma.. it's just the patriarchy wheel going on, crushing woman after woman under it. People enjoying Alicent's 'downfall' simply fail to understand the victims of patriarchy or do not care about them (which is why for many of these 'feminists', Rhaenyra's worth is tied to Daemon and not as an individual).

[starry-eyer]

lysa and lyanna are, in a sense, two sides of the same coin—both victims of their father’s ambitions (and their society) who share some very important parallels: they dared to get pregnant out of wedlock. they dared to want their bastard child. they dared to (try to) pick the man they’d share their lives and bodies with.

they committed the grave and oh so terrible offense of being active agents in their own lives. and for that, they were punished. women are commodities in westeros—their value resting in their marriageability, and their marketability for marriage depends on a few important factors: their virginity, their beauty, their status, and their fertility.

so a highborn woman having a bastard in this world is a massive f u. it disrupts an entire system dependent on women’s submission and forced participation where men benefit from their oppression and the idea that women exist to secure alliances through their bodies. it shakes a patriarchy that relies on control—control of bloodlines, inheritance, and legacy.

the tragedy of lysa and lyanna is that they were always doomed by the narrative—they were part of the generation that couldn’t overcome their rotting and oppressive society. theirs was the generation of the false spring, not the true one—their fates are ones the next generation is meant to overcome.

but what truly interests me is the way lysa and lyanna contrast.

both characters belong to the bael/stark maiden archetype. lyanna and rhaegar fit this mold almost perfectly. but lysa and petyr are a failed, mismatched version. petyr wanted catelyn (who became lady stark), but ended up with her sister instead. lysa wanted petyr, a bael-ISH figure, but he never loved her.

their failed reiteration of the archetypal relationship was solidified by these facts: petyr thought he’d taken catelyn’s maidenhead, not lysa’s. their first time wasn’t even consensual. and their child was killed in the womb. it was no romance—it was never real the way lysa wished for it to be.

and yet, the most significant contrast between lyanna and lysa lies in their relationship with their fathers.

lysa trusted her father. she told him about her pregnancy, hoping it would mean she could marry petyr. i doubt she ever imagined he would harm her, but that’s exactly what hoster tully did—he gave her moon tea to abort the child, to preserve her value, promising her trueborn children. then he married her off to jon arryn—a man even older than hoster himself—who married lysa for duty, for the swords of house tully to win the rebellion for his boys (ned and robert), and because he needed a fertile wife to get children on. lysa had made a grave mistake by trusting her father, her patriarch.

lyanna, on the other hand, clearly understood that her father would never prioritize her happiness over what he could gain by marrying her off. her clear lack of trust in the men of her family is paramount to understanding why she escaped.

but lysa stayed, and went from her father’s hands into jon arryn’s. lysa married for politics and suffered for it, losing child after child. so when jon arryn tried to take her last child from her, she did what was once done to her: she poisoned him. lysa reenacted the violence of her past to protect her son.

lyanna ran, and later died giving birth to her son. it was a gendered death, but it was also her choice. love didn’t save her, but duty wouldn’t have either. and at least she died in the tower of joy, surrounded by winter roses, making ned finally see, forcing him to not ignore her wishes, forcing him to promise her... in the end, she still had to rely on another man—on the new stark patriarch—but this time, she was heard. basically, she got lucky here.

the themes explored through the bael/stark maiden archetypal relationship are about agency, loss, and how the westerosi patriarchy twists the relationship between fathers and daughters—a mesh of love and objectification as this is a system that demeans women to a life of commodity.

lysa and lyanna’s stories are having a conversation about the violence of the patriarchy and the risks it poses to women if they trust or defy it. these two female characters are reminders of what happens to women who dare to want, and their ends are ones the current female protagonists are meant to avoid and overcome—to prevail where lyanna and lysa lost.

if lyanna’s defiant choice to run helped spark robert’s rebellion, then lysa’s trauma fueled actions helped spark the war of the five kings (to be clear: i don’t think either of them actually caused these wars). i’d say the critical focus of the narrative is on the world that made lyanna and lysa’s choices fatal and catastrophic in the first place. and the fates of these two female characters were direct consequences of the commodifying of women.

[mega-ringsandthings-world]

Okay. I know the general consensus is not this, but if Catelyn had been told the truth about Jon from the get go, she would have treated him better. Relatively. Like, she wouldn't have gave him shit for being a bastard or been ice queen bitch stepmother to him, but uh. there would have been other issues. Just think about how having Catelyn aboard the hide-Jon-train would go for one second. For one second. Okay? We are talking about Catelyn fucking Stark nee Tully. And we are also talking about Catelyn fucking Stark nee Tully before the other four kids came along. Just her baby Robb and Ned and Ned's nephew. (and if you don't think that Ned saving Jon from under Robert's nose on a promise to his sister wouldn't make I-released-the- king-slayer-to-bring-back-my-daughters-Catelyn fall so hard in love with him her head is still ringing fifteen years later you are LYING to yourselves) So think mother gothel. She would have micromanaged the shit out of Jon's life and upbringing. Ned is pretty lax so as security measures go in terms of Jon, but Cat? Winterfell would get turned into FBI headquarters. Vibe checks at the door and retina scanners and Jon and Robb have a praetorian guard on their cradles. Yeah she'd be cool to Jon in public as he grows but in private she's frantically brushing his hair every night looking for whites. Holding him up to the light to check for hints of purple in his eyes. As they get older she namedrops bastard a lot but secretly actively fosters a relationship between Jon and the other kids because Catelyn-Sansa-will-be-queen-of-the-seven-kingdoms-Stark nee Tully knows about the pact of Ice and Fire and having one of the last Targs bouncing around is tickling the politician in her. That being said she institutes a book ban on Targ history and is always on Ned's ass about them playing dragons. When Arya is gets old enough she makes it a point to put her and Jon next to each other at all times. Jon getting a direwolf are goddammed holy blessing to her. When Robert's dump ass comes to visit she's having a conniption about Jon being recognized and nearly locks his ass in the crypts until he decides of his own free will to sit in the cheap seats before she blows a gasket. She hates the Wall idea because who the Fuck is going to watch this kid as well as she's been doing for the past fifteen years? WHO? If she had found out about Aemon being up there she's have blown up castle black. Jon, who has had to deal with this shit since attaining spatial awareness tries to get Benjen to let him take his night's watch vows at Winterfell's weirwood. Man wants OUT. He can't deaal with tiger mom ass no more. When he comes to visit Bran she slips and says something cryptic and weirdly affectionate and it puts his ass in a tailspin all the way to the Wall.

Like, I know people think it'd go more downhill if she knew about Jon but why? Boring. Uninspired. Booooo. Get fun with it.

[crimsoncold]

have you ever thought about the snow queen fairytale in connection to jonsa? it might be a reach but i can see elements of them in there

Hi asoiastarks! Please forgive my very delayed and rambly response to this ask

I hadn't really considered this fairytale before but when I thought about it in depth I ended up having way more to say about the connection between Jon and Sansa's stories (and Jonsa as a romantic pairing) and fairytales in general than I expected so I'm putting my response below...

While I wouldn't say that there is one specific fairytale that jonsa (or jon and sansa individually) clearly and directly follows I would totally agree with the opinion that Jon and Sansa (two of asoiaf's comparatively most traditionally romantic characters) definitely seem to draw from or echo several common aspects found with protagonists of traditional fairy tales- both as individual characters and as a potential romantic pairing.

I've definitely seen people describe Sansa as a romantic heroine that has tragically been "misplaced" into a brutal world like westeros- and I think that description holds up and that ultimately her gentle and romantic nature will result in an end that is not simply having all her happiness and hope being destroyed by consistent trauma and narrative punishment but rather will have to involve her life flourishing into something beautiful but still grounded providing a more satisfying end for someone who maintains much of the sort of traditional kindness/goodness found with the typical fairytale princess despite the horrors around her- otherwise asoiaf would seem little more than an outright bitter and nihilistic story

I also think we shouldn't sleep on Jon who underneath his wonderfully bitchy sarcastic grumpy or occasionally ruthless exterior holds similarly romantic values and thoughts

Generally speaking it wouldn't surprise me that someone could find commonalities between a fairytale and Jon and Sansa, I feel that many common tropes that are found in a great number of fairytales can correspond to aspects of Jon's or Sansa's individual story and personalities or to Jonsa as a pairing by itself.

Just listing a few off the top of my head ...Having and reclaiming some secret identity that they may or may not have know about, young members of nobility/royalty raised or living in hiding due to their lives being in peril- typically in a position of lower class than they might actually belong to; being the target of the machinations wrath or cruelty of evil kings/queens/or some type of sorcerer or spellcaster, having notable interactions with or a special connection to animals or some type of mythical creature, the concept of being resurrected from some form of permanent sleep or even death

.... and of course in the case of a possible romantic relationship forming- them being character's who after experiencing incredible hardship, tragedy, or sorrow are ultimately awarded for exhibiting, maintaining, or gaining traits such as kindness/compassion/bravery/dutifulness/or selflessness, the possibility of either of them occupying the role of a hero or saviour for the other from either literal physical threats/enemies or more metaphorical ones like their loneliness or emotional trauma, as well as having a completed and happy story arc that ultimately cumulates in them forming a deeply intimate and loving partnership or marriage.

When it comes to the Snow Queen specifically I'm only passingly familiar with this fairytale (so please forgive me in advance if I miss something obvious or get any details wrong) but based on my very basic knowledge of this fairytale I can definitely think of a number of interesting commonalities/parallels this fairytale could have to Jonsa.

Firstly, because so much of Jon, Sansa, and the Stark family's storyline is rooted in a snowy and cold environment (the north, winterfell, the wall, etc.) and because one major threat in the overall story comes in the form of "ice" (i.e. the Long Night and the Others coming from beyond the wall) it doesn't surprise me that one could find a number of (at least surface leve)l commonalities to a story like the snow queen with its similarly icy setting and villain, as well as find a number of common basic story elements/imagery that occur in both- though not always in the same type of context or role (e.g. the appearance of or focus on ice/snow/snowflakes, roses, crows, doves, and a girl traveling and reuniting with someone in the north, the emphasis put on the sweetness or goodness of a character, and the unexpected effect or power that a character's faith/prayers/love/or inherent goodness can have on the world or people around them)

Most of all i can definitely see the potential for some more direct similarities between the snow queen and a hypothetical (but very possible) jonsa endgame for asoiaf....

First in the form of a character like jon being healed and changed from his own altered state (e.g. some form of strangeness, purposelessness, distantness, coldness, harshness, forgetfulness, or trauma that occurs in the aftermath of his time with the night's watch and his subsequent assassination and resurrection) after he is reunited and touched by the sweetness and affection- the love, tears, or even kiss- of a distantly regarded (or even forgotten post resurrection?) but once beloved part of his childhood- in the form of a girl he was raised with who has made a dangerous and long trek north to be reunited with him,

Secondly I could see strong paralelles occuring regarding the ending, i.e. one that centers around two individuals returning to their common home, grown and deeply changed by their experiences but with a hopeful and happier future promised or symbolized in the form of the changing season (with the upcoming one promising to be a time of warmth and renewal after the comparatively harsh or treacherous winter).

Side Note:

Given got/asoiaf's efforts towards exemplifying a far more corrupt, harsh, cruel, senseless and unjust world than what is typically seen in fantasy works I'm not exactly expecting an ending chock-full of sunshine and rainbows....

However I find it notable that Sansa, and to some extent Jon, exist as somewhat of an outlier in an explicity harsh and grim setting (and are further flanked by a number of characters that are a great deal less romantic and more pragmatic, if not outrightly more selfish, cruel, or even brutal and psychotic)

As a result there is something quite striking about the way many of Jon and Sansa's experiences, core personality traits, and their supposedly hopeless or rejected- yet still deeply idolized- dreams end up resembling eachother in so many ways.

Their desires and motives may (for lack of a better word) be comparatively "simpler" and more straightforward than those of many other characters yet they also correspond to an underlying shared sense of duty and desire for family, and are simultaneously deeply meaningful to the character's personally while also exemplifying an appropriate blend of the series realism/pragmatism with jon and sansa's trademark romanticism.

I do believe that a bittersweet but hopeful and affectionate end for these characters and this epic fantasy tale can definitely (at least in part) take the form of not just a reunion of the surviving starks but also in a sort of slightly twisted and bastardized fairytale end for the series via Jon and Sansa having their dreams (of winterfell, marriage, and family) being fulfilled by a respectful, willing, and even loving marriage to one another.

(a love and relationship that would initially be appropriately fraught and seemingly forbidden or obscene but ultimately would be allowed to blossom giving these two characters the closest a story like asoiaf will ever get to a traditionally "happy" fairytale ending)

A Jonsa endgame would also offer a thematically appropriate foil to several other notable romantic relationships in the series...

Like seriously there is way too much sibling incest in this series for GRRM not to be building up to something/coming full circle in the end with a very different but still pseudo-incestuous relationship in the form of Jonsa

... like I swear to god he's gonna be like "here have a bunch of current, recent, and long past tragic, ruinous, and/or deeply unhealthy and harmful incestuous marriages and relationships...isn't this obviously always such a terrible thing to occur?" only to go against typical expectations of readers and once again reject the simplicity of an obviously black and white story with a strong and consistent divide between the "heroes" and the "villains" and instead sucker punch the audience by offering up an emotionally and thematically fulfilling but somewhat unusual (even uncomfortable for a number of readers) and bittersweet end that once again involves an incestuous (of sorts) relationship only this time amongst the "good" characters in the story, in the form of a marriage between cousins and psuedo siblings Jon and Sansa.

[drakaripykiros130ac]

Just a daily reminder that Queen Aemma Arryn had only one living child.

Alicent Hightower had four.

And yet the surviving bloodline which created a new Targaryen dynasty that lasted for many years after and produced several incredible Kings, beautiful Princesses, skilled warriors and a Queen came from the one living child of Queen Aemma.

This is what I call poetic justice.

[winterprince601]

"he was never unfaithful to robert, was he?" - jaime, acok

ha. ha ha ha. the irony of this line is incredible. what's so striking to me is how one dimensional the realm's understanding of eddard stark as an honourable man is - honour itself is an incredibly complicated and unattainable ideal in asoiaf and i think ned as the stereotypical emblem of it encompasses many of the reasons why. because whilst he absolutely does consider acting in a conventionally honourable way important, he always prioritises those he loves. he defended cat's actions as his own without a second thought when she arrested tyrion. his main priority in king's landing is to see his daughters safe, not to secure the succession. lyanna is the prime example: jon's existence is not the result of the lapse of honourable ned stark, it was honourable ned stark choosing his love for his sister over his duty to his king. that and his personal ethical belief that the political murder of a child is never morally acceptable.

no one in the realm has the insight into his personality we get in the first book. none of his children, vitally, understand that he would always prioritise their safety over any honourable scruples. all of the starklings question what their honourable father would think of their actions - killing in self-defence, marrying jeyne westerling, sleeping with ygritte to name a few examples - without recognising that ned's true first priority was always his family's safety.

in fact, he betrayed robert far more than he ever betrayed cat and he would have betrayed honour for his family's safety every time.

[ethnicallymoral]

Vander and Ned Stark Parallels

I could write an essay on the parallels between Vander and Ned Stark.

Fighters turned into father figures. Holding on to morals and virtues that no longer function in the world they lived in. Both their deaths become catalysts, leaving the next generation to pick up the pieces.

"Love is the bane of honor, the death of duty."

Ned knew the truth and had leverage but chose honesty & loyalty instead. He adopted Jon, knew his lineage & kept it a secret for honor. Vander could've joined Silco with shimmer but he judged him for it instead.

They were too naive, nostalgic, and short-sighted for the leadership that was demanded of them.

Both Ned and Vander were betrayed by men from their past who played the game better than them. And underestimated their counterpart at the exact time that it mattered the most. Their principles made them predictable and weak in a game that doesn't care if you're playing fair.

They're the "good guys," in the narrative, yes, but refusing to adapt causes more harm than good in leadership positions. They left themselves and others extremely vulnerable for morals that I would deem as selfish. Their deaths left the one's they swore to protect and their community abandoned in a ruthless world that they were not prepared for.

Their roles as father figures are central to their stories and echo each other. Especially when you look at what their children inherit from their deaths. And it's interesting because both Ned and Vander chose fatherhood out of their sense of duty AND the chance for redemption. Ned Stark with Jon. Vander with Vi and Powder.

The child's innocence dies with their father.

Both Arya and Powder watched their fathers die traumatically. Arya becomes a weapon of vengeance driven by guilt and anger. Sansa's thrown to the wolves. Vi driven by guilt and anger. Powder spirals into Jinx.

But they survive — DESPITE their father's lessons.

Anyway, I actually really like that there is fault in their approach and that these two characters aren't infallible. But I think a lot of the nuance gets lost in season 2 and maybe it didn't really matter in the end. I just couldn't stop thinking about this.

Thanks for reading.

I post a lot more Silco posts on Twitter, if you’d like to find me there too.

[bunbunbl0gs]

Modern Arya 🔪

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