#pol!jon

[esther-dot]

I’m sure you’ve been asked this a million times, but is there a specific meta (or metas) that you feel sufficiently explain the pol!jon theory?

Kit's face.

Obviously, that's kinda a joke, and I'm gonna link more stuff for you, but to me, that is one of the most compelling arguments for it. Not merely because he failed to communicate love in his scenes with Dany (although that's true), but because, there are a hundred other emotions he was conveying in their scenes that we have to ignore or deny if we're to accept that he was enraptured with Dany, trusted her, or thought she would be a good queen. If you look at that gifset, in many pivotal scenes, he's torn, worried, disappointed, afraid. All sorts of emotions that simply don't fit in with the "fool in love" storyline.

Another of my favorite posts on the subject is this gifset in which D&D create parallels between Dany and LF, JonDany/LF&Sansa, some, or all of this, clearly intentional. Or this parallel from s7 that uses repetition of a line to indicate, Jon and Dany are not friends, they are in fact, opposing forces. Or this scene in s8 showing us that Grey Worm doesn't trust Jon, which again, is saying, Jon isn't as loyal as he's supposed to be. I mean, I knew that, but again, it doesn't fit with the story. Those speak to D&D’s plans, things completely beyond the actor’s control.

I'm linking a number of gifsets right off the bat because what they chose to put on our screens is more compelling than the words I use to try to argue my opinion. For example, this gifset of Sansa being the power in the North, look at who Jon (nonverbally) recognizes as the person he should show deference to. It's a weird detail that we know they orchestrated to show a specific thing, but again, it doesn't fit with Jon being a Dany convert or believer in her status as their true queen.

ANYWAY, far as I can tell, everyone had a different version of the theory, some of which, I didn’t like much, some of which, I still think are the best explanation of what I watched, but this gifset is basically the summary of it. Jon heard Sansa, he purposed to be smarter, and was unwavering in his loyalty to the North. Simple as that. This, I think, is the meta that best explains the political Jon storyline in s7. There were many wonderful metas on this, sadly, many of my favs are no longer accessible because bloggers deactivated (my pol!jon tag has some posts in it still), but basically, I think it was an interpretation that showed more respect for Jon and Dany.

Dany sliding into paranoia and isolation is something they tried to speed run in s8, and it was presented as a kind of "madness," but if Dany was right, that Jon wasn't loyal to her, that she didn't have love, it's a more sympathetic story for her, as well as a darker but more coherent story for Jon. It reminds me of Aerys and how he was "paranoid" in the end, but we do have lines that sound as if, yeah, people were wanting to dethrone him (potentially even his son), which in no way justifies the horror he wanted to unleash, but does create a more nuanced scenario, something Martin is very fond of.

Dany realizing the person she trusted can't be trusted could have been (I thought was) a critical moment in her choosing fear as her path to power in 8x05, and I didn't think it served her well to pretend that was all in her head when it clearly wasn't. I wrote this post finale to explain my thoughts on show Jon, what happened to him, the parallels I saw, the meaning behind it.

[whateverthedragonswant]

I've said it before and I'll keep saying it: always look to the parallels. They're there for a reason.

They always show what the actual big picture was/is. Because they're laced into the framework of the story.

[sherlokiness]

Some Pol!Jon thoughts

Jon wondered where Ghost was now. Had he gone to Castle Black, or was he was running with some wolfpack in the woods? He had no sense of the direwolf, not even in his dreams. It made him feel as if part of himself had been cut off. Even with Ygritte sleeping beside him, he felt alone. 

And

Beneath her coverlets she tossed and turned, dreaming that Hizdahr was kissing her … but his lips were blue and bruised, and when he thrust himself inside her, his manhood was cold as ice. She sat up with her hair disheveled and the bedclothes atangle. Her captain slept beside her, yet she was alone.

I believe this further sheds lights on Pol!Jon. If we look at Jon's passage, he feels alone bc Ghost is gone meaning someone is beside him yet he's missing a wolf. Ghost is a part of himself and who belongs with Ghost? A blue eyed with dark honey hair Val.

As for Dany's case, she has a dream of being fucked by a "drowned" man while Daario is beside her. So even if she has sex with a "drowned" Jon, she'll still feel alone.

The aegony conclusion is that Jon and Dany will not feel alone once they sleep together. The foreshadowing for me is that Ygritte=Dany with undercover Jon and Jon=Hizdahr. The parallel is not JD feeling alone even with their current lover, it's that JD feel alone bc their current lover is foreshadowing for each other.💀💀💀

[averagefungus]

Splatoon is a franchise that I grew up with, and the end of 3 feels like the end of an era for my life, especially as college season starts. When I got into splatoon, I was still in elementary school, and now college is within a stones throw away. My adolescence has created and killed hundreds of people I have experimented with being, and the person I was when I first played Splatoon is now buried deep inside where it will never see the light of day. Walking around the grand festival plaza, as the sun rises, biding farewell to something my life had clinged onto, whether in love with Splatoon or on something else, was a retrospective moment that won't leave me. The concept of Fandom, OCs, Fanfiction, taking what you love and making it something truly unique to you was given to me by Splatoon. I don't know how radically different my life would be without this push to be expressive, to be interesting and weird. To be yourself. I created OCs, dozens of them with the limited options Splatoon 1 gave me. And while I failed to save them, the hundreds of stories that I lived vicariously during sleepless summer nights, they all will be with me, angels watching over me. If I am to be defined by a media, it is Splatoon, thoroughly and without a doubt.

Splatoon gives me with one important question that I'll carry with me for the rest of my life:

"Hey... what if the Beatles were jellyfish?"

[falllpoutboy]

people act as if pol!jon was out of ordinary when its like… thats what his whole arc from the beginning has been since the first book/season

[amaltheas-garden]

What if Jon's sweetness in the bittersweet ending is his short lived love with Daenerys?

While I do think the show is probably accurate to what we'll get in the books in the broadest of strokes, there are still a lot of other plotlines to get through before Jon and Dany can even meet. For how long his books are, grrm really doesn't cover all that much time, meaning in just two books, Jon has to be resurrected (which I suspect won't happen until around the halfway point in Winds, since there's no point in Jon dying and coming back just a few chapters later), Sansa has to make it to the Wall, Arya has to return from Braavos and confront Lady Stoneheart, Littlefinger has to be taken care of, Jon and Sansa have to retake Winterfell, and the Starks have to reunite all amidst the growing threat of the whitewalkers. On Dany's side, Aegon has to get to King's Landing, Dany has to become leader of the Dothraki, fulfill all the bits of her prophecy (the 'to go West you must go East' one), and rally her armies to cross the narrow sea, and resolve ALL the loose ends in Essos since whence Dany leaves, that will be the last time we see it. And that's not including all the other stories, like the Dorne plot, Cersei/Jaime/Brienne, and Stannis/Davos/Melisandre, or accounting for the characters still very separate from everything (Sam off in Oldtown and Bran doing three eyed raven stuff). And all this is build up for the final cataclysmic conflict, the song of ice and fire. Now, that is a lot of content to get through, and when you start laying out every single thing that needs to be resolved, it becomes rather apparent why WoW is taking so long. The point is, Jon and Dany are not meeting in Winds, and it would be a miracle for them to meet even in the first half of Dream of Spring. That's why I highly doubt the relationship between Jon and Dany will be a genuine romantic one. Grrm is not the type to do a quick, star-crossed lovers plotline that ends tragically all within the span of a few hundred pages. A Jon x Sansa romance makes more sense, seeing as, if we accept Sansa as the girl in grey, she and Jon will spend the majority of two books with each other.

As for the show, there was nothing bittersweet in Jon having to kill his lover after she becomes a tyrant and threatens to murder his sisters, and for him to end the series by leaving his family for a lifetime of solitude. If book!Jon is destined to go beyond the wall after DoS, the 'sweetness' will be in knowing he did everything in his power to protect his family. No short-term love affair with Dany could ever replace the love Jon holds for the Starks.

Book wise, I doubt the Jon x Dany relationship will be one of genuine romantic love on Jon's part (see pol!Jon theory), and while Jon could end his story alone, I don't think a relationship with Dany is enough to fulfill a 'bittersweet' ending. I also recommend this incredible meta on Jon's ending (it does skew heavily Jonsa-centric) FedonCiadale — Sometimes scrolling through the Jonsa tag, I find... (tumblr.com) and they also have some other amazing answers on the bittersweet ending.

[naetaesarya]

They hate Jonerys because Dany is "abusive" to Jon and "a tyrant in the making" but they ship Jon with Sansa?

Sansa, who spent seasons 6-8 manipulating Jon, lying to Jon, breaking Jon's trust, risking Jon's life and for what? Sansa's insistence on a Northern independence they cannot maintain, if they can even manage to survive the encroaching apocalypse... They do know Sansa is not elected, right?

What's more, Jonsas' star theory Pol!Jon deftly and rapidly transforms the character of Jon Snow into a manipulative, abusive Lothario who is deceptively seducing Dany -- a victim of molestation and rape -- and has fooled her into believing he loves her hahahaha but in reality, Jon loves Sansa! And Jon is only using Dany for her dragons and forces before he plans on betraying her and killing her, all to marry Sansa! ....And Jonsas have a problem with abusive spouses?

what are they smoking?

[justrainandcoffee]

The witch

Prev || Masterlist

Summary: Pollyanna Greyjoy had prophetic dreams all her life and this time, it's all about death and a war she cannot stop.

Warnings: None.

Words: 470.

Pollyanna Greyjoy, née Ryswell, was in her bedroom contemplating the flames in the fireplace.

Her dreams were part of her since she was a child. Especially those that involved death. She saw her sister-in-law's death a decade ago and it became true. And the only thing she'd do about that was to wait. Because once the magic writes the fate of people, there was nothing that the mortals could do to avoid it.

And it was happening again.

Death was coming but this time it was a war. The worst of all: a war made in name of love.

A rose in middle of the the stag and the wolf and the white snow covered in blood. Pollyanna sighed. Love it was always the most powerful weapon and when it's about young people even more.

In her dreams, alongside with the blood, she saw the letter 'J'. Of course she knew what that meant but she refused to accept it. Not the death knocking on her door again. Her family finally had certain stability and she could even say that they were happy. And lucky.

With Jared the Cruel reigning the North and his sword always ready to be used, the fact that the old Stark never visited their lands it was indeed good luck.

Pollyanna stood up and looked at the flames. The visions in her dreams were clear for her as the sun in the sky.

She'd warn her family to be prepared but the problem was that prophetic dreams didn't have date. It'd be tomorrow or in five years.

How to cope with something that you don't know when it's going to happen?

Pollyanna left her room and went to the the small temple they had. It was still night and no one saw her, the sky was clear and the moon illuminated her way.

The Ryswell were devoted to the Faith of the Seven and the seven-pointed star was around their lands.

She knelt down and lit up a candle. Her prayers this time were for the Stranger, who represented death and the unknown.

"Please…" she said, closing her eyes.

The wind blowing made the candlelight dance as a single tear ran down her left cheek.

Pollyanna left the temple no longer after.

"Pol," she heard, "What are you doing here? It's late and it's freezing!"

Behind her, the tall figure of Jon Ryswell was looking at her.

"I needed to pray, Jon. What are you doing here?"

"Heard noises but I guess it was just you. Let's go inside, Pol. You're going to catch a cold."

Jon's blue eyes looked at her with tenderness and Pollyanna stroked her nephew's face.

"Alright, let's go inside, darling" she said accepting his hug.

------

But she couldn't stop thinking that the letter J on the snow covered in blood, belonged to him.

Next

No pressure to read it (and if you want to be removed from the taglist, just tell me, I'm not going to offend ❤️)

@mischievouslittlecreature @peakyswritings @cillmequick @hoodeddreams13 @call-sign-shark @shelbydelrey @darklydeliciousdesires

[agentrouka-blog]

Hello, Rouka!

I was thinking "Wow, so much smut and explicit sexual content in the ASOIAF books so far" and then I had this:

There is a big chance we could have a Jonsa Smut Scene written by GRRM. Because we have to. We need it. If Pol!Jon or something like that happens between Jon and the Fav Queen in the books... there is no way we will have that and not Jon with his Sweet Lady! We had Ned and Cat mentions, more Jaime and Cersei than we want, some explicit... things we don't want to mention... We Must to clean our mind with the happy couple at the end of the story!

I'm not sure I would describe anything in the book series as "smut" in the sense of sex scenes meant to be erotic in nature. GRRM is writing sex scenes as another angle of character exploration and in most cases these scenes are intentionally off-putting in some way in order to break immersion and get the reader to focus on why things are happening as they are. That's why some people say GRRM is bad at writing sex scenes when really they are probably conditioned to expect sex scenes to be emotionally stimulating rather than analytically stimulating.

In this vein, it's entirely possible that GRRM will explore Jon and Sansa's relationship through how they approach sex with each other, same as he explored the characters in sexual contexts with other people (all abusive in their own way). But I doubt it would be "smutty" so much as insightful. I also doubt it would be terribly explicit because neither POV character is prone to describing sexual things without inhibition.

I'm not saying GRRM would write it to be off-putting, but we should really adjust our expectations. This won't be adult-rating AO3 content. This will be GRRM letting two teenagers who survived sexual abuse and trauma discover mutual love and sexual autonomy in an age appropriate (i.e. slightly awkward, possibly clumsy, nevertheless excited) way together. In brief glimpses and veiled descriptions. These are kids.

[naetaesarya]

POL JON RIDDLES

HELP ME OUT GUYS

Riddle #1: IT'S GREED AND TYRANNY WHEN DANY WANTS TO TAKE BACK HER FAMILY'S DYNASTY but it's righteous and right and empowering when the Starks (Sansa) want to take back the North. THE TARGARYENS ARE THE REAL COLONIZERS NO DOUBLE STANDARDS HERE WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT.

Riddle #2: Dany's love is cheap compared to her greed for the Iron Throne!!!11

...So why does Jon need to sexually use, abuse, manipulate, and fake his love for the power crazed Dany ala Pol!Jon to steal her armies and dragons if her worthless love is so cheap then...? It's not like sex is going to help out Jon's lacking martial forces much or add sense to the non-sensical Pol!Jon. Or what, does that not fulfill the Jonsa teen scene dreams of sweet sweet betrayal for thy true love Sansa?

Riddle #3:

"It's preposterous to think Jon, who has always tried to do the right thing, would betray(or even kill) his aunt just for shits and giggles."

So what is Jon, Jonsas? An uber asshole who is Sansa's personal garbage disposal? And will callously abuse, use, and manipulate a rape victim? Or does he have a conscience? Because yeah, I think the the two are mutually exclusive here. How does a decent person with a conscience (who Jon is supposed to be) do this to... anyone? Why would Jon do this to Dany? What has Dany done to warrant this? Conquer? Robb Stark, Jon's brother and best friend. Stannis Baratheon, the claimant Jon supported in ADWD. The Young Dragon, Jon's idol. How dare Dany want to take back her family's dynasty! Just like the Starks!! All the Northern houses love the Starks and want them back! (Except the ones who don't) The Skagosi too!! (Except they keep rebelling when the Starks try to force them to submit...) But seriously, since when does Jon hate Targaryen conquests? Or... Targaryens?

But I digress, let's look at Pol!Jon. In contrast, Pol!Jon hates the young conquerer Dany! How dare Dany conquest!! Pol!Jon doesn't idolize the Dorne-invading dragon-riding Young Dragon!! Eww!!! But here's the thing: nothing about Pol!Jon makes Jon the hero as this particular Jonsa likes to argue. Everything makes him the asshole -- from every angle. Jon can't be a hero performing 100% villainous, unnecessary, and stupid stupid actions all so he can dispose of one girl (Dany) so he can go ahead and marry another girl (Sansa) who looked down on him in childhood for wholly classist reasons. (No no, no misogyny here!) Everything Jon does in this scenario justifies Dany (or Dany's supporters) going to war against him -- and the North -- because it's treason. How can Jon realistically get away with that. How would GRRM let Jon realistically get away with that. For Jonsa?

It doesn't matter how much of an asshole you are dying for Dany to be, it won't make Pol!Jon any less of an asshole in his characterization or actions toward Dany.

And if Pol!Jon hates Dany so much that he's willing to abuse, use, and callously exploit a rape victim when her love for him is apparently so "cheap" (because apparently, these are your versions of them), it seems like he is doing extreme stuff for shits and giggles -- and to make the situation far far worse (handing Dany a reason to go to war against the North, intentions to start another civil war despite multiple wars going on and the North's lacking resources, making an enemy of a powerful queen and during a time of probable desperation...).

I'd call that psychotic.

(On another note, I'm a Jon stan but... uh, there are times in ASOIAF when Jon does not do quite the right thing...)

I* know Aegony has been theorized as endgame ship for a reason but imo those are the same people who have grossly mischaracterized something about Dany and Jon.*

The irony.

They are the same ones who have denied Dark Dany and insist how her greed for the IT was actually just her doing her duty as the last Targ and that Sansa was the power hungry one actually.

Hilariously, this happened in the same show Jonsa never became close to canon (not matter what Jonsa conspiracy theories say), the same show in which Sansa kept risking the life of her "beloved" brother Jon and betrayed him multiple times (funny, Dany never did that...), and the same show of which GRRM has repeatedly said his ending would be different.

Oops :)

And Jonsas wonder why the fandom has a problem with them.

[repairingahole]

Pol cleaning around with Jon :3

oh lord

[whateverthedragonswant]

Jonerys Was A Game of Faces: More Evidence That Pol!Jon Was A Thing

Literally the scene before Jon bends the knee in 7x06:

This scene happens right after Dany watches as Jon's men undress him and sees the stab wounds from when Jon died.

Then we see Sansa sneaking into Arya's room and the first thing she sees after closing the door is a knife.

Then when Arya catches her rummaging around, Arya tells her about the Game of Faces she used to play while training to be a Faceless Man before she got her first Face:

"Back in Braavos, before I got my first Face, there was a game I used to play. A Game of Faces. It's simple, I ask you a question about yourself and you try to make a lie sound like the truth. If you fool me, you win. If I catch a lie, you lose. Let's play."

Sansa: "I don't want to play."

Arya: "How do you feel about Jon being King? Is there someone else you think should rule the North instead of him?"

Sansa: "Those faces...what are they?"

Arya: "Would you like to do the asking? Are you sure? The Game of Faces didn't turn out so well for the last person who asked me questions."

Sansa: "Tell me what they are."

Arya: "We both wanted to be other people when we were younger. You wanted to be a queen, to sit next to a handsome young king on the Iron Throne. I wanted to be a Knight, to pick up a sword like Father and go off to battle. Neither of us got to be that other person, did we? The world doesn't just let girls decide what they're going to be. But I can now. With the Faces, I can choose. I can become someone else. Speak in their voice, live in their skin. I can even become you." *she picks up the dagger* "I wonder what it would feel like to wear those pretty dresses. To be the Lady of Winterfell. All I'd need to find out is your face." *she hands the dagger to Sansa (indicating she's lost) & walks away*

Very next scene:

Jon comes to and finds Dany sitting right there, staring at him. He sees that she's upset and immediately begins to apologize, saying he wishes that they'd never gone. He even reaches for her hand to take in his. His body is covered except for the heart stab wound. And then what follows?

Dany tells him that she doesn't wish that, because now she's seen. She agrees to help him fight the NK because of what happened to Viserion. (meaning she's still not committed for the right reason which means things can still change, especially with someone who is impulsive) He thanks her, calling her Dany. She likens him to Viserys because that was who last called her Dany. "Not the company you want to keep."

"Alright. Not Dany. How about My Queen?" (this will come into play later in a near future post)

"I'd, um, bend the knee, but..." (notice how he looks away from her during this line; in the very same season he tells Sansa that Ned always said every word after 'but' was horseshit)

"They'll come to see you for what you are."

The very same music "See You For What You Are" plays later in 8x06 when Jon and Dany have that glare off on the steps in KL.

And in the scene before this (Arya and Sansa's scene), they make sure to show us Sansa seeing the dagger first (which connects her to Jon and that he took a dagger to the heart, the very wounds Dany was just ogling), Arya startles Sansa who immediately mentions that she has hundreds of men loyal to her ("but they're not here, are they?"), Arya begins the Game of Faces despite Sansa Jon not wanting to play, asks Sansa what she thinks of Jon as King (right before he's about to bend the knee?) and who should rule the North (something that Dany and Jon have been debating over), subtly threatens Sansa Jon and then switches the game around, she talks about how she wanted to be a different person as did Sansa (remember Dany trying to emulate Rhaegar at one point?) but neither of them got to be (Dany turned out to be nothing like Rhaegar except for the obsession with the prophecy/destiny thing), Arya threatens Sansa & and loses the game while Sansa Jon wins, and Arya walks away leaving Sansa Jon holding the dagger in his hand.

Not only is this incredible foreshadowing for what's coming down the pipe in the next season, but they're also purposely linking all of this together to show us one thing: in a way, Jon is playing the Game of Faces with Dany. Dany fell in love with Jon and despite her growing paranoia and distrust of him once she knew the truth about his parentage, he was the one able to get close enough to end her tyranny, the one she didn't supposedly see coming. Dany also wasn't able to fool Jon or Sansa or Arya or Bran or anyone else up North on who she really was and what she was. Even most of Westeros wasn't fooled into thinking she was this great Savior Queen that they wanted back on the IT. (Olenna, Ellaria, and Yara all joined her for revenge; only Yara showed any bit of buying Dany's sales pitch & that was more due to her feelings about the woman & the "promised" independence than anything) Dany was only ever able to use her "Faces" to fool others: Breaker of Chains, Mhysa, Mother of Dragons, Khaleesi. And things didn't turn out well for those who didn't "bend the knee" aka believe that image asked her questions.

Jon played the Game of Faces (even though he didn't want to) and won in the end. Do I think he was playing it maliciously? No. I think like Arya confirms in 8x04, he did whatever it took to get Dany and her dragons North to fight the NK. And since Sansa could easily see what Dany was and didn't want to play (until that convo in 8x02 but it was quickly dashed by Dany's anger at Sansa's asking about the North), after the NK had been defeated, he did whatever it took to keep Dany placated (and she was family to him) and keep Sansa safe (since Sansa was the only real threat left to her in Winterfell by Dany's own words in 8x04), as well as becoming a prisoner of Dany's because of her knowing who he really is.

It was all a Game of Faces.

I know people didn't care for this scene between Arya and Sansa at casual glance because it felt very OOC and some Sansa fans were upset at Arya for threatening her, but this is exactly why that scene is sandwiched between the Jon/Dany boat scenes, and why these two characters were chosen as the players to speak that dialogue. Sansa and Jon are connected in more ways than one here, never mind in the series. It makes sense that Arya would be the one to (hopefully) teach Sansa and the audience about this game and what it actually would mean for Jon's bending the knee and submitting to Dany. As well as his answer to Cersei's proposal in the next episode. Personally, I think it went over a lot of GA's heads (as we saw from some of their reactions to Dany going dark at all in the next season), but it was there.

And they even made sure to call back to that line Jon says to Sansa in 7x01 (another connection between them btw besides those mentioned above & the Prisoner theme) as an overt reference in and of itself.

This is proof in the pudding that pol!Jon was very much a thing. They just didn't execute it 100% correctly, and they abandoned it in the eleventh hour for whatever reason. But it's all right there.

[sherlokiness]

Remembering about Joso's Cock is killing me with this recent talk of Jon using trickery and deceit.😭😭😭Joso's Cock was formerly Joso's Prank (a part of a ship named after the three heads of the dragon)and the word prank only ever appears thrice together with Joso in the series. And what involves a prank?? A TRICK!!! Joso and a trick with a cock to open the gates of Meereen. Heh.

What's up with gates and cocks you ask?

You know why they call her Gatehouse Ami? She raises her portcullis for every knight who happens by.

He [Tyrion] hopped down from the dais and grabbed Sansa roughly. “Come, wife, time to smash your portcullis. I want to play come-into-the-castle.”

The sexual metaphor is obvious. Sansa didn't let Tyrion "enter" her castle.

“That will give it strength enough to stand, I’d think,” Petyr said. “May I come into your castle, my lady?”

Sansa was wary. “Don’t break it. Be…”

“…gentle?” He smiled. “Winterfell has withstood flercer enemies than me.

Later passage has a "giant" doll entering the gates of Winterfell only for its head to be put on a spike in one of the gates. This makes me nervous for Sansa since this could be a rape attempt or just a seduction from Littlefinger of offering her what she supposedly wants. If Winterfell is likened to Sansa's viriginity then it is true in the books. She has been sexually assaulted multiple times and been betrothed (even married) yet she still has her maidenhead.

So if Winterfell's gates are Sansa's then Meereen's gates must be Dany's.

[jackoshadows]

Why hate on Jonsa? Ship and let ship!! It's a cute ship.

Why do I write about Jonsa?

With no new book, mocking Jonsa is the most entertainment I have in this fandom nonnie! Please don't tell me to not talk about it 🙏

Also, cute?!! Jonsa is one of the most sexist, racist, classist ships in the fandom. And that's saying something in a fandom like Asoiaf. Cute is not the word I would use. More like garbage that belongs in the trash. Ship and let ship is fine until bigotry forms the basis of that ship and shippers turn one of the most forward thinking characters in the books to a self-loathing, shallow caricature, an antithesis of everything he is in the books and then attack book readers for pointing that out.

I call out Jonsa for

a) Subjecting Jon Snow to the worst character assassination I have ever seen. Yes, even worse than the show - remember pol!Jon is a thing!

b) Taking away from Arya's story, relationships and narrative importance and

c) Generally being absurdly nonsensical. Tyrion being a time traveling fetus makes more sense than the absolute shite Jonsa shippers throw out there every now and then.

[atopvisenyashill]

because everybody loves a both robert and rhaegar die AU, have you ever speculated on what would happen if they’d both died at the trident? i like to think tywin’s move would be to team up with rhaella to crown viserys with cersei as his consort (cuz aegon is too young and he WANTS his blood on that throne), and dorne thus splits off from the royalist side BUT. what thinkest thou?

(no rush to respond to this. it’s just for funsies)

i do like how often an au is just like “what would have happened if one of those two bitches died” lmao. also this is one of the ones where i was in a GROOVE writing wise then tumblr deleted everything which is why it took me foreverrrrrr omg i was so mad, i had so much, i was so depressed!!! ANYWAYS TUMBLR I HATE YOU. MOVING ON-

so YES, as word spreads that both claimants have fallen at the trident, I think in addition to a race to the capital - because we see this several times in the story but whoever HOLDS King's Landing has the keys to the kingdom - Tywin is sending off letters and messages to Rhaella so he can come out on top here. I think Rhaella may even be receptive to this; for all Tywin has a nasty reputation, it's possible Rhaella wants a nasty reputation to protect her right now, knowing she has no one but her unhinged husband "protecting" her now that Rhaegar is dead. His wife was also friends with her, and I'm sure that relation is still important to Rhaella the way the Loreza relation was. HOWEVER. I am going back on forth on Elia and the babies - obviously he will want to kill any counterclaims but there's a risk of killing the kids and then not being able to get Rhaella to play ball, especially with her at Dragonstone and messages probably moving slowly. There's a risk here when he doesn't have Rhaella, Viserys, and baby Dany in hand or under guard by Lannister soldiers. Again - POSSESSION is important right now with everything up in the air. What Tywin - and the rebels - need more than anything is to physically have the upper hand by having the targs they're trying to rule through With Them Right Now or just having King's Landing straight up.

But timeline wise this is crazyyyy and I think that's where it gets fun. In canon, Ned and Tywin get to KL at basically the exact same time (and it takes about a fortnight to get there - so Tywin is really running on a tight schedule to get a message to Rhaella). Tywin is mid sack when Ned shows up and then Ned beats him inside the Red Keep. So when Tywin gets there, Ned, Jon, probably Hoster and Blackfish too, are all standing there with Jaime who has offed Aerys, and are like “well looks like we’re gonna parlay right here and now” but then someone is gonna mention the kids and Elia. So either Tywin has to be all “guess they died in the sack haha oopsie anyways we should crown viserys, do a council of regents like with aegon iii i call hand tho 😁” while Jaime's face is trying to not visibly crack open in horror that he failed to protect Elia because of his dad, OR he tries to argue that since Rhaegar was mad, it's inevitable his children will be too and they should cut the kids out of succession and send them to Dorne (in a scenario where he doesn't risk killing them yet).

Ned is not gonna stand for that shit at all lol, even ignoring the fact that Jon and Hoster will see it for the power grab it is, Ned has just ost his best friend in the whole world, his older brother, his father, and he has no idea where Lyanna is still, I just can't see him taking shit. He’s gonna dig in his heels about how they need to do the opposite of whatever Tywin wants bc Tywin just murdered the kids for no reason - or well, for a very important, selfish, awful reason which is ensuring Viserys has no counterclaims so Cersei can marry him. Without Robert here to laugh it off, and with Ned as the main "face" of the rebellion left alive, I think Hoster, Blackfish, and Jon Arryn are likely to give Ned's words some weight, but they're also much more experienced at politics (and notably, it's only ever Ned and Doran that give a shit about murdering babies). With Robert dead, they know they need money and a marriage that legitimizes their cause, and Cersei is a great possibility for that, but What Is Their Cause Now. Even with Elia and the kids alive (but not for long imo - if they give in and let Tywin crown Viserys over Aegon, I think Aegon, Rhaenys, and Elia are getting attacked by pirates on the way back to Dorne), the question of "Viserys, Aegon, or Stannis" is going to a big issue. The lords of Westeros generally prefer to crown a grown or teenaged man over a baby, which leans towards Stannis, but this isn't crowning Egg over two infants he's related to and likely loves, this is crowning their rebel leader over two actual Targaryens.

I find it unlikely that Hoster and Jon are just going to hand Tywin this complete and total win even if they set up a council of regents - especially because Ned is likely pressing for Stannis to be crowned over young (and already unsteady) Viserys. IF they decide on a council of regents - which isn't a terrible compromise - Tywin is NOT going to be Hand tho, lmao, they are sending his ass home and Jon Arryn will be Hand. Viserys is definitely consummating, like, way earlier than he should too. BUT. If Ned pushes hard enough on crowning Stannis, he's not going to want to reward Tywin with a marriage to Cersei. I think there's a chance that, with both of these factions in the capital, they send out ravens that are like "everyone stand down, we're doing a great council to decide between Viserys and Stannis."

BUT. While they're arguing over what to do here, we don't know quite how much time has passed (in this or in the og timeline) and someone is going to contact Ned about Lyanna eventually. Again, if he gets there quicker, and she's not literally sitting in her own filth and blood for days, she might live. She's much better off in this scenario too - no Robert, no Rhaegar, and Ned alive - but first Ned has to find her. If they're all still arguing while he ducks out, I think Tywin wins that fight UNLESS they decide to call a great council already when he gets the message. Very stressful to be Ned and argue for Stannis, dip to go find Lyanna, and then come back to Viserys being crowned and married to Cersei with a council of regents set up...........especially when he's showing up with another Targaryen.

Anyways, there's sooo many moving factors compressed into a timeline that is very short and also very mysterious. I think if Ned is in the headspace to make the argument, as the main "face" of the rebellion left alive, they're likely to want to crown Stannis or call for a Great Council. HOWEVER. A Great Council does NOT mean Tywin isn't going to start pulling strings to get Viserys and Cersei on the throne either, and he has a lot of money to sling around to get allies. And if they're in the middle of the argument when Rhaella's letter comes in that says "Yeah I'll marry Viserys to Cersei and forgive the rebels" (what else is she supposed to do in this situation after all), THAT'S a huge boon in Tywin's favor to argue, especially if Ned winds up leaving the capital halfway through the argument to either save Stannis or save Lyanna. So imo, Ned is the deciding factor here - is he too focused on Stannis and Lyanna and accidentally gives Tywin the win? Or does he manage to stay on top of the political situation long enough to spite Tywin somehow?

[esther-dot]

Self-reblogging is great. I only started following you around 2021 and so I missed out on your post-GOT posts, but read some in your pol!jon tag. And there's always something new to add. You never know who hasn't seen what you've shared, and it's nice to revisit ideas even so. It's a great thing about Tumblr because everywhere else, things are so ephemeral.

(about this poll)

That’s true! I’ve really enjoyed @captainscifi22 ‘s blog recently because there are old metas and gifsets and fics (even by people I’ve followed ever since I joined the fandom), that I’ve never seen before so I keep saving things in my drafts to read later like a chipmunk stuffing my cheeks. 😂

Rebloggong stuff, even our own stuff, is an essential part of tumblr so we shouldn’t think twice about it. I’m working on not feeling self-conscious about it. Thank you, anon! 💗