#anti tsunade senju
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My interpretation of Itachi's character is fairly contrasting with yours. I pose my arguments against your analysis. I hope I would get a lead unto having an unbiased opinion.
Itachi's position in here between was a rock and a hard place. Having witnessed horrors of wars he chose to the stop war. It wasn't the best decision but even still he accomplished many things.
A new Forth Great Ninja war was prevented. Uchihas plan wasn't to reform the government it was to take control of them. Their desires were clearly reflected in their demands. While half of them was about freedom, the rest was only to control village. This, along with Obito's plan for revenge and war, will definitely start a war.
Madara, with the pact, was foiled for more than seven years long enough for the strong Shinobis like Naruto and Sasuke to grow up and defeat him.
Sasuke's life was saved. Itachi would go at all lengths to protect his brother. Afterall, its only obvious he would be over-protective of Sasuke since both loved each other a lot(as siblings).
The Uchiha's reputation were saved. Imagine what would have happened to the Uchihas after the war. The people were already suspicious of the Uchihas and now we will have never ending persecution and would be branded as traitors, doesn't matter if the coup won or lost. The coup wasn't about reforming anyway.
People in the village got to be safe too.
And despite all these he still regretted a lot enough that he wanted the person he adored the most to kill him. Also, no one here is trying to justify his action. A justification and a reason has a clear distinction. Just because there was a reason it doesn't make the acts were justified. He himself acknowledged that. The writer didn't try to justify nor did Itachi himself. People like, Hashirama and Naruto, appreciated the role he played and praised him as a Shinobi.(being seen as a villan while protecting the people isn't easy, btw). They weren't justifying or glorifying his actions in any instance.
He wasn't an absolute nationalist. He he was an idealist. His motivations most cases(especially while making big decisions)were to 'not beget war' and 'maintain peace'. Doesn't matter if Uchihas managed to control the village it still starts war, death, destruction and countless losses which is exactly what Itachi hated from when he was 4. He also wanted to reform the village by becoming a Hokage. He wanted to wiped out the entire ninja system since ninjas were the ones who were used as a weapon for the Diamoyo start constant wars. The Leaf was sort of obnoxious in the time of Tobirama and Hiruzen's regime. But even still, the Hokages were good and passionate and also the people were innocent.
A new Forth Great Ninja war was prevented. Uchihas plan wasn't to reform the government it was to take control of them. Their desires were clearly reflected in their demands. While half of them was about freedom, the rest was only to control village. This, along with Obito's plan for revenge and war, will definitely start a war.
How do you even know it was prevented? Shisui stating that hidden villages will take advantage of Konoha’s civil war to invade was just a fear that was actually constantly proven wrong throughout the series; when Suna invaded and Konoha was destroyed (forcing it to send their most powerful shinobi out of the village to collect money) no other village took advantage of the situation, not even Kumo or Iwa, two of the big five that were not struggling politically or militarily as Suna, Kiri and Konoha were. Kumogakure even tried to kidnap Hinata while in the middle of signing a peace treaty, yet they did nothing against the Hyüga clan nor the village during one of their most vulnerable state.
Furthermore, you mean to tell me that a civil war (I am using that notion generously because Konoha is a military state with a non-civilian population, specifically trained for combat) destabilizes the military and economic power of a city, yet the complete disappearance overnight of one of the village's founding and most powerful clans does nothing to its structure? Other villages wouldn’t see the absence of Sharingan-wielders as an enticing opportunity to strike? Do you mean to tell me that a village was left without police to control it overnight (and their job is considered super important by detractors), yet the city did not succumb to chaos?
Their desires were clearly reflected in their demands.
What were their demands? Enlighten me.
While half of them was about freedom, the rest was only to control village.
Where do you get this information from? There’s nothing of the sort stated in the manga.
This, along with Obito's plan for revenge and war, will definitely start a war.
Obito’s plan needed the annihilation of the Sharingan-wielders as he didn’t want anyone capable of obtaining the Mangekyou to jeopardize his plan to control the ten-tails, Itachi killing the Uchiha literally allowed Obito to start the war!!
Madara, with the pact, was foiled for more than seven years long enough for the strong Shinobis like Naruto and Sasuke to grow up and defeat him.
… what? This doesn’t make any sense and has nothing to do with Itachi… you mean to tell me that Itachi killing his clan made Sasuke as powerful as he is? Because Sasuke has always been powerful and has always been Indra’s transmigrant, and as I’ve said, Obito wouldn’t have been able to initiate the war (or at least would’ve been incredibly difficult for him) with the Uchiha clan still alive!
Sasuke's life was saved. Itachi would go at all lengths to protect his brother. Afterall, its only obvious he would be over-protective of Sasuke since both loved each other a lot(as siblings).
An eight-year-old was tortured mentally by his brother through Tsukuyomi by watching his clan and parents get killed over and over again, was left to live alone in a compound destroyed by his brother’s actions, having to clean his parents’ own blood and fend for himself –but at least he’s alive… the circumstances and solitude in which he grew is abysmal, traumatic, negligent and inhumane, but we don’t care as much about children’s safety as we do children being just alive.
There were other children in that compound, children that knew nothing of and participated not in the coup to which Itachi didn’t extend the same kindness he did his brother.
The Uchiha's reputation were saved. Imagine what would have happened to the Uchihas after the war. The people were already suspicious of the Uchihas and now we will have never ending persecution and would be branded as traitors, doesn't matter if the coup won or lost. The coup wasn't about reforming anyway.
What “reputation”? The Uchiha were always constructed under a negative light within Tobirama’s system, you lot keep saying they were saved from being seen as detractors when there’s not a single panel that states they were planning to change the system as a whole (rather take down the current government, which is not the same).
Furthermore, to think that they cared about the rest of the population's mindset regarding them is so incredibly simplistic I have to laugh at it –they’re the strongest clan in the village, without Uchiha, there’d have been no village in the first place, and they were already aware of the unfavorable perspective in which they were regarded by others, nothing in itself would’ve changed.
The Uchiha being seen as loyal to the village helped no one but the current system as it is, as they’re seen as a government without opposition, it wasn’t about maintaining the Uchiha’s honor, but keeping the fragile credit of the structure and those in power -if Uchiha died in their own terms, then other clans will know about the clan’s discomfort with the current mindset, and those that feel uncomfortable with it might find a group that validates such sentiments:
Kakashi admits to being uncomfortable with the way he's viewed by the system, he even uses plural when referring to ninja ("we ninja") -meaning there's a communal uneasiness with the whole situation.
The fact that the government silenced detractors (Uchiha) by killing them will only deepen further the general shinobi population's discomfort, which is why is imperative to silence the truth.
[On another note, why do you keep using "honor" as an excuse to execute an entire compound of people? The entire clan was decimated and the whole "honor" of the family rested as another responsibility Sasuke had to endure all by himself thanks to "Itachi's love" -they were left with no honor as Sasuke was forced to restore it! Furthermore, they're all dead! What is "honor" gonna do for them? For the massacred innocents at least? They did nothing wrong and were killed regardless, their honorable nature wasn't even being questioned!]
People in the village got to be safe too.
Safe of what? When was it stated they were going to fight against those who weren’t in power? The problem is they rebelling against those they deem their oppressors but not the government refusing to renounce their power in order to keep the “population they hold so dear” safe? They are both willing to kill innocents (so I guess some people in the village weren’t safe, but in your book, they don’t matter as much), and use the rest of the military population to strike against Uchiha (which is also, never actually stated!). The idea of a “within war” was never confirmed as the Uchiha had no chance to strike, no one is to say they weren’t trying to take power through force yet quietly, no one is to know what was their actual plan as that was never brought to light!
The Uchiha are wrong for wanting to take the power but the government isn't wrong for wanting to keep it, the Uchiha are wrong for their methods to seek authority but not the government for defending the status quo. Uchiha having power would mean annihilation, somehow, despite them being against just their oppressors, not Konoha as a whole; while the government seeks to protect the village despite massacring an entire and most important portion of their militia and one of the founders' clans.
And despite all these he still regretted a lot enough that he wanted the person he adored the most to kill him.
He regretted nothing, he wanted Sasuke to kill him in order to both give him an objective and to distract him from finding out Konoha’s involvement in the Uchiha Massacre, shouldering the entire responsibility of their demisse.
Also, no one here is trying to justify his action.
But you are, you wrote point after point why he had to kill his clan.
A justification and a reason has a clear distinction.
What distinction? You need to expand on the notions you think are relevant to you own argument.
Just because there was a reason it doesn't make the acts were justified. He himself acknowledged that. The writer didn't try to justify nor did Itachi himself. People like, Hashirama and Naruto, appreciated the role he played and praised him as a Shinobi.(being seen as a villan while protecting the people isn't easy, btw). They weren't justifying or glorifying his actions in any instance.
What are you even writing? I’m being honest with that question, claiming to have a reason to kill his clan is used as a justification for his actions! I can’t believe I have to explain that to you. He never said he had no justification (their coup was treated as such over and over, everyone took advantage of them wanting to coup in order to both order the massacre and carry it out!!).
How on earth can you write “People like Hashirama and Naruto appreciated the role he played and praised him as a shinobi but they never justified him”, so are they praising him or not? Them positively reinforcing Itachi and praising him for “his sacrifice” (you see, not only he is perceived as a villain, he is a villain, he killed an entire kin -again, innocents included, in order to maintain specific people in power) is justifying his actions under the notion of the “greater good for the village”.
He wasn't an absolute nationalist.
He did everything for Konoha! He even claimed himself to be “Itachi of the Leaf!” What are you even talking about?
He he was an idealist. His motivations most cases(especially while making big decisions)were to 'not beget war' and 'maintain peace'.
Yet his actions concluded in Obito being able to control the Ten Tails with almost no real opposition as the only other Sharingan-wielder was Sasuke.
Doesn't matter if Uchihas managed to control the village it still starts war, death, destruction and countless losses which is exactly what Itachi hated from when he was 4.
How do you know? Do you have an entirely new manga written by Kishimoto about what would’ve happened had the Uchiha taken over the village? Itachi hated Uchiha since he was four because they brought “war, death and destruction” but not Konoha that actually provoked such wars, deaths, and destruction, what an intelligent boy!
You have to be a troll because, man, “unbiased opinion” my ass. Also, did you just come to my blog with arguments coming from Itachi Shinden? The story not written by Kishimoto?
He also wanted to reform the village by becoming a Hokage. He wanted to wiped out the entire ninja system since ninjas were the ones who were used as a weapon for the Diamoyo start constant wars.
Funny, under Hiruzen’s regime he would’ve never become Hokage, furthermore, when did he even hinted to want to become Hokage?? Never in the entire manga. Also, the Daimyo did little to nothing when it came to wars, those were all the Kage’s responsibilities! Dear Lord, did you at least read Team 10’s Arc? Asuma’s background literally explains how the Shugonin Jūnishi fought each other because six of them wanted the entire military power of the Land of Fire to be managed by the Daimyo alone while the rest, Asuma included, defended the Hokage’s existence.
The Leaf was sort of obnoxious in the time of Tobirama and Hiruzen's regime. But even still, the Hokages were good and passionate and also the people were innocent.
Which people were innocent? The children and non-Sharingan wielders that knew nothing of the coup and were massacred regardless? How can you write “the Hokages were good” while they literally ordered the mass killing of people they swore to protect? How can you use “obnoxious” and “good” to describe the same two people?!
Gosh, the fact that you lot (Itachi stans) don’t comprehend that his involvement in the massacre of his own people alongside the protagonist’s endorsement of state-sanctioned genocide, makes the annihilation of an entire portion of a village a plausible option to handle internal disagreements is disastrous.
Committing genocide against the village’s own people sets a dangerous precedent where future governments can see and use such slaughter as a conceivable, even necessary, tool at their disposal whenever they feel threatened, making any clan vulnerable to the decisions of its government and guaranteeing the silence of possible detractors or even the censorship of constructive criticism of the political, military, economic and cultural system.
Jesus.
#anti itachi#anti itachi uchiha#anti tobirama#anti hiruzen#anti hiruzen sarutobi#anti tobirama senju#anti konoha#anti shinobi system#anti naruto#anti naruto uzumaki#anti kakashi hatake#anti hashirama#anti hashirama senju#anti tsunade#anti tsunade senju#pro uchiha#pro sasuke uchiha#pro uchiha clan
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Pardon me, Kushina, but I need to overanalyze the body language and possible symbolism going on behind you
Tsunade and Jiraiya are both out in the sunlight, happy and having fun, while Orochimaru is cast entirely in shade and is the only one in the image who's frowning. Hiruzen is sitting half in the sun, half in shade, and is quite noticeably positioned so that he separates Orochimaru from the other teammates.
I know I'm overthinking it, but I can't help but feel like this visually represents their team dynamic from back in the day.
#the bit of hiruzen telling jiraiya that he should be more like orochimaru comes to kind for example#lowkey pitting them against each other. probably thought it would be a good motivator but it didn't do much good#like despite hiruzen being his teacher in name we see that Jiraiya learned most of his skills from the toads#and do we actually learn anything about tsunade and Hiruzen's dynamic? i cant remember rn but i feel like there wasnt much#that person who compared hiruzen and Orochimaru to shifu and tai lung was so correct#ANYWAY#tsunade senju#jiraiya#orochimaru#hiruzen sarutobi#anti hiruzen
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I really don't understand the hypocrisy of some Naruto fans - a rant. Part 3
(Trigger warning - anti Hinata)
The things that I have seen in the Fandom really make me question people's ability to read.
PART 13
(I want to provide manga as a proof, but Tumblr has a limit of pictures i can add, so I'll do it in parts)
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The nicest person in the series according to Hinata fans:
(Aka rubbing in her cousins face that he is a slave and essentially pushing him into being punished (even tho he asked her many times to just give up) because her crush was watching)
Cannonicaly THE NICES character in Naruto:
(Aka the person that was called the nicest time and time again)
A person who loses intentionally, because they are too nice according to Hinata fans:
(Aka just being weaker than someone. The "she is too nice to fight with her sister" argument is just wishful thinking. That was NEVER stated in manga.)
A person that CANNONICALY cannot hurt someone because they are too nice:
(Aka the person that couldn't even hurt an enemy, because of memories that he had with Asuma when he was still alive)
The most beautiful female character, according to Hinata fans:
(Aka the canonicaly invisible girl!)
The most beautiful female character CANNONICALY:
(Aka TSUNADE, canonicaly the most beautiful woman on the planet)
Strongest Hyuga member/head of the Hyuga clan according to Hinata fans:
(Aka the girl who lost all her battles)
Strongest hyuga member CANNONICALY:
(Aka Neji, who at 13 canonicaly surpassed the whole Hyuga clan)
The head of the hyuga clan CANNONICALY:
(Aka Hiashi - that never changed)
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To "prove" their point, they use datatbooks (essentially a guaid through the series) that are notorious for getting things wrong and stating stupid stuff like:
Choji has the most powerful jutsu (when we know Naruto and bijuu dama exists).
Sakura being an "elite junin by birth" (when we know she was from a civilian family and was born noone).
Kurenai having just as strong Genjutsu (or in some translations EVEN STRONGER) than Kakashi (when we know what she did or rather didn't do against Itachi)
Kakashi being stronger than Guy in first part (when we know that Guy was already able to use 8 gates and Kakashi was barely able to get Mangekyo)
Etc.
Or even funnier, they use wishful thinking and their own imagination!
They think Hinata is nice so therefore she didn't lose to Hanabi - SHE WAS JUST TOO NICE TO FIGHT WITH HER, and then they repeated it until other people think that it's too popular to be fake so they take it as a fact.
Or EVEN EVEN FUNNIER - they choose what facts are true and what facts are fake.
I even met a Hinata fan that said that databooks are 100% true, but when translation is right.
How do they know what is right? Do they speak Japanese? No. The ones that support their claims are true but the ones that don't are obvious FAKE.
(EVEN when I showed them two statements from the same page - they said that "one is well translated and the other is false". ON THE SAME F*CKING PAGE)
One day I'm seriously gonna lose it.
#anti hinata#anti naruhina#anti studio pierrot#naruto#sakura haruno#anti hinata hyuga#anti hinata fandom#anti filler#hiashi hyuga#neji hyuga#tsunade#tsunade senju#Choji#choji akimichi#naruto manga#naruto shipuden
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I feel like some of you sometimes forget that Tsunade exists, and that she’s a great character.
Because I know that people love to say that every Naruto female characters suck because of Sakura and Hinata… but this isn’t true? Tsunade is amazing. And it’s not like she was a side character you would see in only one arc, or a minor character who gets barely two lines of dialogues. She’s one of the main supporting characters of the manga.
Her development is very efficient. She was traumatized by the death of her brother and of her lover, and began to see the necklace and the kiss on the forehead she gave to the ones she loved as a curse. But she was also traumatized by the fact that she couldn’t save Dan, and since then, she visibly developed PTSD, and the simple view of blood absolutely terrifies her.
But because Naruto helped her to find hope again with his endless determination, she overcame her fear of blood and was able to fight back Orochimaru and Kabuto. She even accepted her responsibility as a Hokage, and decided to come back to Konoha to protect the Leaf. (Just look at her. She’s so badass!!!)
I’ve heard some people say that while she is well written, her character is still defined by the man that she loves, just like most of the Naruto female characters cast… But actually, it’s not the case? Sure, she’s very in love with Dan and his death traumatized her deeply, but the story insists on the fact that her trauma comes not only from Dan’s death, but also from Nawaki’s.
Also, I would like to point out that compared to characters like Sakura, Hinata, or even Karin, her love story with Dan is well written too. It’s very short, but even with three pages, we’re able to see how Tsunade and Dan met, why Tsunade feel in love with him, and most importantly, what they had in common. (So yes, for people who doubted it, Kishimoto can and knows how to write romance)
And also, it doesn’t feel like Tsunade is the third wheel of the Legendary Sannin Trio like Sakura is with Team 7. She’s as powerful as Orochimaru and Jiraiya, and all three of them feel like they balance each other perfectly.
There’s more to talk about, but you get the idea. Tsunade is a good character, and I wish some people would focus on her rather than focusing on other bad female characters in Naruto.
#senju tsunade#tsunade#naruto#naruto analysis#my post#anti sakura#anti hinata#legendary sannin#sannin trio
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tsunade, sit down, what im about to say is heavy now listen:
your friend is a sick man with sick thoughts
i think perverts like him should DIE.
he and weinstein should get fucked up in a cell for the rest of their lives
he hates naruto, hypersexualizes him with kinks of a loli fetish
draws red on his face 'cause he understood tears of blood just fit him better
hes a sex offender and he uses naruto's money as a monthly allowance
yeah, a child should never be compromised and he keeps a child around him
we gotta protect orphans with a predator like him lurking...
fuck a rap battle, he should DIE so naruto can live with a purpose.
#tsunade#tsunade senju#jiraiya#anti jiraiya#sasuke rp#once again#thank you kendrick#naruto shitposting#Spotify
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If in an alternate timeline you had the power of hindsight and to decide when exactly the Naruto series ends…
This one’s kind of a weird one, so please ask for clarification if you need it.
#naruto shippuden#naruto#anti naruto ending#naruto uzumaki#sakura haruno#sasuke uchiha#kakashi hatake#sai#yamato#hinata hyuga#kiba inuzuka#shino aburame#shikamaru nara#in yamanaka#choji akimichi#rock lee#tenten#neji hyuga#gaara#temari#kankuro#jiraiya#tsunade senju#orochimaru#kaguya otsutsuki#obito uchiha#madara uchiha#nagato uzumaki#konan#my stooff
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ranking the hokage by how much i care about them
tsunade. obviously she's number one no explanation needed i love her she's wonderful. no questions no criticisms i love her. should have killed those two elders instead of just dropping them on the floor but i guess making them live with the shame of not being worth her time to kill is good enough. straight up deserted and was so cool they made her president anyway
hashirama!!!!! he's insane. i think he could have been worse frankly but nobody's perfect. worst divorce of all time. married to a woman he may not have even known existed bc he was too busy staring at his bestie's ass. enslaved and traumatized nine sentient chakra creatures for political purposes and never felt bad about it. causes problems just by having dna. would forgive him for everything instantly bc he's a cutie pie
hiruzen. absolute nightmare disaster shitshow of a man. old fuck who tried his best but his best was absolute horseshit, which just so happens to be one of my favorite kinds of characters. never made a decision he didn't regret. first person to get appointed president of the military police state by volunteering for a suicide mission in the middle of the woods. obsessed with him
kakashi! world's most saddest wet dog man. genius but also an absolute doofus. has the aura of a man who could wake up drunk in a dumpster without having imbibed a drop of alcohol. first konoha shinobi to (legally) get on an airplane. second konoha shinobi to get on an airplane at all. somehow married to the single greatest ninja of all time despite literally everything about gai being so far out of kakashi's league it's not even funny
tobirama. thought the whole "it's my jutsu!!!" thing was pretty funny. otherwise i couldn't care less. literally just some guy to me. no interest whatsover
the other one. kushina's boytoy. whatshisface. bad luck with rocks
#naruto#naruto shippuden#hokage#senju hashirama#senju tobirama#sarutobi hiruzen#namikaze minato#senju tsunade#hatake kakashi#NOT naruto himself that didn't happen haha he and sasuke just killed each other and then the series ended#honestly the only reason tobirama beats minato is bc he's hashirama's little brother#so he has some sentimental value to me#otherwise i don't care#i don't hate any of them for the record this is not an anti post#i just have some that i like and some that do not matter to me in the slightest#kakashi matters to me but not as hokage. mainly bc unlike the others his character arc is much less associated with the role
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So if I wrote Naruto list of deaths I would make happen (that did not happen in current canon)
Chouji (after his battle during the Sasuke Retrieval Arc)
Hinata (she dies protecting Neji instead of the other way around)
Gai (after he fought Madara)
Shikamaru (after his plan to defeat Hidan)(yes I'm aware I'm killing both of Ino's teammates)
Kakashi (Pein doesn't resurrect everyone)
Tsunade (dies in her coma, Danzou becomes Hokage after her, also a way to basically force Naruto nad Sakura against the state so they don't be dicks to their genocide survivor teammate)
Orochimaru (no resurrection)
Kabuto (idk I just want him dead, probably during the war)
All I can think of off the top of my head
#naruto#anti naruto ending#anti konoha#team 7#naruto uzumaki#sasuke uchiha#sakura haruno#tsunade senju#kakashi hatake#pein arc#orochimaru#kabuto#shikamaru nara#chouji akimichi#might gai#ino yamanaka#hinata hyuga#hinata hyuuga#neji hyuga#neji hyuuga
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Lord just when you think Sakura stans can’t get any more delusional with their mental gymnastics.
First of all,
Is Kakashi a joke to you????
Plus
Naruto is the SON of a hokage
In the world of Naruto the BLOODLINE matters the most in power and honestly Tsunade wasted her teachings on someone who doesn’t even have the chakra reserves for making the miracles she can. People think I’m kidding when I say Tsunade would’ve been better off training literally any of the other Naruto girls and her talents wouldn’t have been wasted to boost an ego of someone that just used her teachings to try to impress a boy that doesn’t like her.
Fandom aside, Tsunade really is the most disrespected out of the Naruto girls in story/canon. Imagine being built up to be this powerhouse kunoichi only for your main student to be Sakura 🤣
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how morally grey are hiruzen, hashirama, Tobirama and tsunade?
The Hokage and Moral Greyness
Oh boi. That's difficult to judge, honestly.
A morally grey character is one who is not purely good or evil. Their actions are not determined by their morals but by their ambitions. Said ambitions themselves can be either good or evil but both may be accomplished through good or bad means. What makes matters worse is that morality (and therefore moral greyness) is a spectrum.
Itachi is a very good example here because his goal (saving innocents and his little brother) is good. But the actions he takes to get there (mass murder of both the guilty and innocent, manipulation of his brother, and threats toward the village) are traditionally considered "evil" or "amoral".
It's all a big "ends justify the means".
<My opinion under the cut>
All of the characters mentioned above are morally grey to some degree. You cannot be a ninja, killing or willfully sacrificing people, without carrying at least a little bit of moral greyness to your decision-making.
But what we need to understand here is that sometimes, moral greyness is unavoidable. If the world demands you either pick up a weapon or watch your friends die, there is no such thing as a perfect solution to shield you from getting blood on your hands. Morals, sometimes, are a luxury.
And that is the issue with character morality. Are the characters in question really validating evil actions for the sake of evil or are they just being deprived of all viable alternatives? Or was it even a mistake perhaps? Or are they just evil in some aspects of their character but good in others?
Hashirama, for example, is morally grey because he decided he would kill both friend and foe if pressured to do so to save the greater good and establish lasting peace.
Tobirama is morally grey because he decided he would marginalize groups of people or make use of immoral methods even when peace is not under immediate threat.
Hiruzen is morally grey because he gave executive rights to morally corrupt individuals and then refused to punish them to instead maintain a malfunctioning system. In this instance, among other things, he condoned immoral methods to protect the greater good.
Tsunade is morally grey because she agrees to the use of children on the battlefield to save the greater good and re-establish peace.
In comparison, I'd say that Tsunade and Hashirama are the least morally grey as their worst decisions come from a place of necessity. Tobirama and Hiruzen are more morally grey because they commit, agree to, or tolerate immoral actions even when circumstances do not demand such apathy. But of course, it is more difficult to judge for us (the audience) as we do not have to deal with the trauma or pressure of those situations (or possibly even the full scope of events) that do very much influence those decisions.
#obv the moral greyness in these characters makes them interesting but it is not like this means we cannot criticize them#in the end this is what allows us to better appreciate those characters#also adding that morals are only SOMETIMES a luxury#specifically if the wrong committed is proportionate to or outweighed by the harm otherwise experienced#and there are no alternatives available to you or said alternatives harbour other unreasonable risks or disadvantages#eg can't be a vegetarian if you are an Inuit living in the 19th century Arctic and there is no other food available except meat#naruto#tobirama#tobirama senju#pro tobirama#anti tobirama#hashirama#hashirama senju#pro hashirama#anti hashirama#tsunade#tsunade senju#pro tsunade#anti tsunade#hiruzen#hiruzen sarutobi#pro hiruzen#anti hiruzen#naruto ask#naruto discussion#ask#anon#meta#headcanon#analysis
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Naruto re-read XXVI
Chapters covered: 209 - 217 Twentyfourth Volume of the manga
Site used: https://manga4life.com/manga/Naruto (VIZ translation of the manga)
Disclaimer: This is intended as a list and simple observations of the topics that particularly interested me in the aforementioned chapters, in that sense, do not expect a linear -or totally deep- analysis.
Tumblr’s update doesn’t allow me to attach more than 10 pictures, therefore, all of them will be LINKED. Apologies.
306) Hinata appears on the Chapter’s cover, her hands are dispositioned in her usually anxious manner but she’s seen smiling, she seems to be waiting. It’s unclear what she has to do with it.
307) Shikamaru states that it’s “against his code” to strike a lady (x), despite her being a kunoichi and the one that’s confronting him and keeping him from reaching and helping Naruto. Yet, because Tayuya doesn’t fit the “definition” of what a woman is (she’s on her Lv2 stage, which shapes her human form to something more monstrous), he’s okay with using violence to defeat her (she blocks his attempt regardless).
Now, I know that this particular aspect of his character is, as I’ve said before, to establish Temari as his romantical interest (x), she doesn’t break his preconceived notions, as some believe, she simply becomes the sole exception to his mentality, yet having a shinobi not willing to take an enemy seriously nor strike them down for the sole premise of their gender it’s strategically dangerous, and a person with such “moral code” can’t be leading an entire platoon of people (x).
308) Shadow Paralysis consumes a big portion of the user’s chakra, and again, it works by how much chakra the enemy possesses (x), as Tayuya increases her horns’ size (she increments her chakra by accessing further stages of the seal) and his shadow-strangle-technique is forced back.
309) Sasuke’s body, which has been sealed inside a dark fog to prevent him from dying after taking Seishingna Pills, seems to be ready and re-emerges (x):
“Seishingan pills (x), apparently, the Curse Mark Orochimaru gave his pupils (including Anko, likely she never took Seishingan pills and that’s why we never see her transformed into a “monster-like” figure like the Sound Four or Sasuke) boosts their strength but it’s only in the First Stage. This medication awakens the Seal’s power, raising it to its Second Stage, but the moment the Seal develops, the Curse eats away the user’s body, which if left unattended will surely kill them. To prevent this from happening, the user must acclimatize their body to the Seal’s power and Cursed effect for an extended period of time; the Sound Four want to prevent Sasuke from dying using a barrier Jutsu to control the side effects -inducing him into a comma of sorts.” (x)
310) When Sasuke wakes up, he ignores Naruto’s attempt to return to Konoha. Naruto, remembering Sakura’s plead, tries to follow (x), gets almost killed by Kimimaro and saved by Lee (x), whose shinobi career was saved by Tsunade (x).
311) Ino is the next one, appearing on the cover of CH 210 (x).
312) Kimimaro states that Lee isn’t as “easy” as the others, it’s unknown if he’s referring to the rest of the team or to Naruto specifically (x)
313) A little explanation of how a Jönin squad lost against the Sound Four (x), Tsunade sent an entire group of Gënin (with no backup) against a team that she was told won against full-fledged shinobi. She even attaches Sasuke’s value as a Sharingan Wielder (she doesn’t even mentions him by name, but the doujutsu he possesses); Jönin and Chünin were sent either to missions to gather wealth for the realm or to Konoha’s border to monitor possible dangers to avoid war –strange how a village decimated by destruction and whose numbers dwelled considerably after the invasion relies on small groups of shinobi keeping guards to avoid armed conflict instead of trying to solidify a political nexus in between Konoha and potential invaders. It’s likely more a plot device introduced by Kishimoto to give the gënin squad a chance to fight strong enemies without Konoha’s elite interfering but it doesn’t change the fact that, bureaucratically, Tsunade made a mistake as not only she sent gënin with immense potential (the Hyuga prodigy, the Nara and Akimichi heirs and the nine tails Jinchuuriki) to a dangerous situation that goes beyond their capabilities but also compromised further Konoha’s military and political situation.
314) Lee escaped Konoha’s hospital and found Naruto fighting Kimimaro (x) so following the trail of the team is possible and more gënin could be sent as support to guarantee a better success rate at recovering “the Sharingan”, is Tsunade unaware of how many gënin Shikamaru took? Lee consumed Tsunade’s alcohol which makes him particularly violent (x).
315) Kimimaro is very beautiful (x) and his Kekkei Genkai is incredible: It gives him complete control over his osteoblasts and osteoclasts (x); while the human body is composed of two hundred bones, Kimimaro can grow more from every part of his body and pierce his skin in order to use them as weapons against his enemies or defend his organs against attacks; it appears that his skin regenerates as he’s seen without open wounds after the bones disappear. Apparently, according to Kabuto, the Kaguya clan was whipped out by the nation of Kirigakure and Kimimaro was the last survivor (x), Orochimaru states that the clan never left behind the prototypical behaviour of the families during the Warring States Period (x) and when trying to go against a “well-governed body” that likely surpassed their numbers, they found their demise. It’s unclear why they went against Kiri, albeit it wouldn’t be strange if it was a response against the Kekkei Genkai cleansing.
Kimimaro’s death is all the more tragic when we learn he thought Orochimaru will keep him alive by remembering him and having him in his heart (x), yet that turns out to be a wish he will not have, as Orochimaru doesn’t care for him (x). Later on, it’s Juugo the one who keeps his memory alive, as he follows Sasuke when he becomes a cage for him, reminding him of Kimimaro.
316) Continuing from point 314. Tsunade did send reinforcements when she asked for the Sand siblings (x) and they were able to reach all of them in time to save them: Kiba, Shikamaru, and Lee did not win against the Sound ninja, rather, they lost and were saved by the siblings; and while them three are particularly strong as all of them reached the third stage of the Chünin Exams, while the rest of the Konoha Gënin didn’t, why rely on someone at least three days away?
317) “I owe Konoha a great debt.” (x) Considering Shinobis’ nationalistic mindset and how the individuals are linked to their village of provenance it’s not strange that Gaara associates the place of origin of the one that actually saved him to Naruto himself, so by helping Konoha, he helps Naruto by direct association. He likely ignores the fact that hadn’t been for Hashirama, he wouldn’t have become Shukaku’s jinchuuriki, as it was Konoha’s first Hokage the one that decided to cage the tailed beasts inside vessels to distribute their power amongst the newly formed ninja villages.
Temari admits that her actions during the invasion (and her actions now) weren’t of her choosing nor personal preference, as she was/is simply “following orders” (x). It’s established that shinobi do not compromise their moral parameters when performing a mission, as they simply justify their conduct by establishing another person in a higher rank or the structure in place as directly responsible for everything they do; in the same manner, these principles are never to compromise the village’s political gain and military power, so they either morph to fit Konoha’s, get repressed as to them not interfering with the mission at hand, or grow to become a direct opposition to the village’s.
Gaara’s sentence about “how sad it is” that Orochimaru brainwashed Kimimaro (x) is paradoxical considering how his devotion to the Sannin is no different from his devotion to Naruto, Suna, or even Konoha. He gloats about how an entire kin will cease to exist as he’ll kill the last member in lieu of the mission he was given; Kimimaro dying regardless as a consequence of his disease (x, x) –and he did as they admitted they won by mere luck, does not modify Gaara’s overall antithetical behavior as he did not eliminate nor reduced his manners but rather he modified his violent conduct to be in favour of his village and those he considers allies (x) while Naruto, on the other hand, refuses to use killing force.
318) Temari has a summon: a kamaitachi (x) –The kamaitachi, translated from Japanese as the sickle stoat; is a Yōkai from Japanese folklore with a mustelid-like appearance and extraordinary speed. "Kama" is a kind of Japanese sickle, also used with some modifications as a weapon by the peasants of the time. Itachi means weasel. He is always armed with a sickle or according to other versions of such shaped claws, occasionally inflicted cuts or scratches on people for no reason.
Summoning: Quick Beheading Dance (Kuchiyose: Kirikiri Mai)
Ninjutsu, B-rank, Offensive, All ranges User(s): Temari
Roaring whirlwind!! The rampaging and slashing dance of the Kamaitachi!!
Temari of Sunagakure controls the wind with a massive fan!! She whips up a tempest, and summons a Kamaitachi that rides the winds slashing through everything it touches!! The effects of the jutsu stretch outwards for several hundred metres. The swirling winds also whip up the mowed-down trees and boulders which rain down on the helpless enemy!! It is highly effective when surrounded on all sides or when the enemy is hiding behind a shield. The sole weakness of the jutsu is that it exposes the user’s position.
Source
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#naruto re read#anti gaara#anti sabaku no gaara#anti sand siblings#anti shikamaru#anti shikamaru nara#anti tsunade#anti tsunade senju#anti konoha#anti wof#anti will of fire#anti shinobi syste#kimimaro#anti shikatema
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“Sakura has such a huge forehead!”
#naruto#boruto#anti hinata hyuga#anti hinata#boruto naruto next generations#boruto naruto the movie#anti hinata fandom#hinata hyuga#naruto shippunden#Sakura#sakura haruno#tsunade#tsunade senju#naruto next generations#naruto analysis#naruto pain#naruto fandom#naruto anime#naruto x hinata#boruto next generation#boruto anime#boruto manga#boruto two blue vortex
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I really don't understand the hypocrisy of some Naruto fans - a rant. Part 4
(Trigger warning - anti Hinata)
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The things that I have seen in the Fandom really make me question people's ability to read.
PART 4
(I want to provide manga as a proof, but Tumblr has a limit of pictures i can add, so I'll do it in parts)
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1. What Hinata fans think happend:
HINATA SAVED THE WORLD BY TALKING TO NARUTO. IT'S ALL THANKS TO HER.
What really happend:
Naruto talked to KURAMA, and it's KURAMA who made Naruto realize he has to continue to fight. Not Hinata. After Hinata finished talking - Naruto was still on the floor. He got up after KURAMA helped him.
It's like me saying that Sakura saved Kakashis eye after it was taken. Like sure, she started it, but is it Sakura's achievement? NO. Naruto fixed it. 🤷♀️
2. What Hinata fans think:
OBVIOUSLY HINATA IS STRONGER THAN SAKURA. Why? Because she's family of the MC, and family of the MC is always the strongest!
Whats the truth:
Kushina was the junjuriki of the strongest beast and mother of the MC, yet still:
The strongest was Tsunade 🤷♀️
3. What Hinata fans think:
Hinata is stronger than Neji since the WAR ARC.
What really happend:
Hinata at 17, fighting for dear life to do 64 palms, thinking it's her maximum and wobbling while doing so.
13 yo Neji, doing it perfectly (even tho he had to learn it on his own) without breaking a sweat.
Hinata running for dear life to cover Naruto, saying how fast were those rods, having no time to do a thing, but to stand there.
Meanwhile Neji, still having time to jump IN FRONT OF THEM.
Neji is stronger, more skilled and faster than Hinata, always has been and forever will be.
Is the argument that she is stronger than Nejis corpse? Because he was A JUNIN, and Hinata has never achieved it, so Neji at 15 is stronger than Hinata at 32. THERE IS NO PROOF THAT ANYTHING CHANGED 🤷♀️
4. What Hinata fans think:
Naruto and Hinata understand each other!
Naruto just needed
A full-on confession,
A filler move,
And to see Hinatas memories
TO KNOW SHE EVEN LIKES HIM.
What is the truth:
Naruto and Sakura, reading each other's minds.
5. What Hinata fans think:
Hinata stopped OBITO. Ino was there just to help out.
What is the truth:
Ino and HER technique, that was just AIDED with byakugan. Not with Hinatas byakugan (as if it was special). It was aided with a byakugan. It could have been any Hyuga 🤷♀️
"But... but... Ino needed Hinata to see!"
Ym, no. Ino can se BEHIND HER OWN DAMN HEAD.
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It's terrifying! It's like manga said one thing, and Hinata fans went: 🙈🙉.
Unfortunately they forgot to 🙊 as well. 🤷♀️
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That post is shorter than normally because I needed a lot of panels, but I have a bonus :)
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Bonus!
Because it's hilarious to me:
Sakura fans: Sakura got from nothing to the strongest, she had no kekkei genkai, no special eyes, she had to trained her ass off to become strong.
Hinata Fans: HINATA IS THE MOST HARDWORKING PERSON. She got nothing from her family, she had to work for everything! She got strong because of her training only! That's why she is the best! Hardworking queen.
Sakura fans: well, she got byakugan and was taught all her techniques so she got something, while Sakura got literally nothing.
Hinata fans: HAHA HER CHILD WOULD BE WEAK! Hinatas children would inherit byakugan as well! So they would be born great! That means that Sakuras child would have to work to be remotely strong, while Hinatas children would be born strong! ROYALTY.
Sakura fans: actually, Sarada inherited Sharinngan, so she has that and hard work from Sakura!
Hinata fans: haha! No, she has NOTHING FROM SAKURA BECAUSE SAKURA IS NOONE.
Sakura fans: well, that's a good thing because Sakura went from nothing to one of the strongest, which is why she is great!
Hinata fans: YMMM NO! SAKURA HAD TALENT! SHE HAD TALENT OF CHAKRA CONTROL, WHICH IS TALENT, SO HINATA IS BETTER BECAUSE SHE REALLY HAD NOTHING.
Sakura fans: ok, so maybe Sarada would inherit the chakra control and get byakugou to support her sharinngan!
Hinata fan: HAHAHA NO, BECAUSE ITS NOT A TALENT, SHE CANT INHERIT THAT. She would have to learn it, so Hinatas children would be born stronger!
PICK ONE YOU MORONS. I CAN'T 😭
Either we are proud of hard work, and we support the hardworking queen OR Hinata inherited EVERYTHING so her children would be born strong.
Either chakra control is a talent that Sakura was born with, so Sarada can inherit it OR it's not a talent, and Sakura really got from nothing to everything.
IT'S NOT BOTH IF THEY CONTRADICT EACH OTHER.
#anti hinata#anti naruhina#naruto#anti studio pierrot#pro sakura#anti hinata hyuga#sakura haruno#anti hinata fandom#pro sakura haruno#anti filler#pro naruto manga#naruto shipuden#tsunade senju#anti stupidity#anti hypocrisy#naruto fandom#kurama#kyubi#pro ino yamanaka#ino yamanaka
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Okay okay this will be my last post on the topic because I really do have work to do
Jiraiya and Tsunade should have also been considered missing nin
Like I understand Orochimaru was quite literally caught in the act in his little lab of horrors but Tsunade and Jiraiya DESERTED the village long before he did.
Jiraiya left in the middle of a WAR to care for orphans of a different village in enemy territory without informing his higher ups. He did this for years before he went back and everyone was perfectly fine with that happening.
Tsunade straight up left the village, no word, no contact with anyone, just left with nothing but the clothes on her back and get this.
A CHILD!
That wasn’t even hers! Yes, it was her fiancé’s kid but they never got married she basically kidnapped Shizune but oh it’s fine because she just need time to think, right?
Love the sannin I do but all of them needed help that Konoha didn’t care to give.
Or at least like a prison cell damn-
Off topic but I can’t for the life of me remember if Danzo was actually the cause for Orochimaru getting his hands on orphans to experiment on or is that a fandom headcanon. If real why tf did no one inform Tsunade and why did we never see her attempt to knock Danzo’s head off his shoulders?
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how come kamala harris gets doug and tsunade gets jiraiya
after minato died, malewives went extinct in konoha
#naruto shitposting#tsunade#tsunade senju#senju tsunade#jiraiya#sannin#anti jiraiya#minato namikaze#namikaze minato#minato#kushina#kushina uzumaki#minakushi
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How did the Huyga Clan get in Konoha? Did Hashirama, Tobirama, Madara and others not know about the whole, them enslaving their own people, or did they just not care? Or did the Hyuga Clan somehow kept it a secret for years and then everyone found out during the Chunin Exams in the Neji vs Naruto fight? I just don't understand... Did they pay a handsome price to make the hokage and others in charge look the other way?
#naruto#naruto founders#neji hyuga#hyuga#konoha#hashirama senju#tobirama senju#tsunade senju#hiruzen sarutobi#madara uchiha#huyga clan#chunin exams#anti hyuga#anti konoha
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