#anti emily wilson

[alatismeni-theitsa]

Look at Emily Wilson's column to the right. Is this the translation praised as the most "accessible" and "revolutionary"? This is like a 2nd grade translation for kids! Wilson's translation strips the original of all glory, reducing a great piece of ancient literature down to the bare, dumb, bones.

It essentially tells you "Do you have mental difficulties or low education and want to experience poetic wonder and epicness? Sorry, this is an "accessible" text. Take this since you obviously can't handle anything more complicated like... many epithets, metaphors, and turns of phrase."

It also tells you "You don't have enough time in the day to experience the Epic properly? Worry not, because this translation will offer you an experience equivalent of reading a kid's book. It will cost you more than that of course. It took great effort to make the text this bland."

[random-krab]

I know you're not the biggest fan of Emily Wilson (Me neither) but I'm curious about what you think

Both the Odyssey and the Iliad would've been performed orally by court poets while playing an instrument. Most likely with a lot of pauses and dramatic flare as it's a performance.

Not only does Emily Wilson have extreme bias, she also translates it like it's meant to be READ.

The thing is, neither of these epics were originally meant to be read, always spoken. I think THAT'S part of the reason why it feels so "strange" when I read it alongside the fact that yeah, she's got clear bias. Taking away a lot of the "dramatic flare" to make it simpler to read takes a lot AWAY from these poems!

You Anon are correct, She writes it almost as if it is a novel or a story meant to be read to oneself. I think that's something many modern writers need to correct while translating Epic Poems in general. If it wasn’t for her cherry-picking, biased perspective I do believe that maybe I wouldn’t be so harsh but with the novel-like writing and her choosing to gloss over or paint certain characters (Like Agamenmon or Calypso) in a certain light feels wrong. I’ve mentioned before how much I don’t like her glossing over/minimizing Odysseus’s assault several times but It should be mentioned what she does to Agamemnon while also common is so very incorrect and upsetting. Do not get me wrong Agamemnon is a frustrating character but it’s not fair to write him as some sort of villain. There is truly no villain in the iliad other than the circumstances of war itself. If you look through the Iliad you can find at least one line that makes almost every single character and hero a frustrating and or horrible person. Agamemnon is a confusing, interesting, complex hero, is he the antagonist of Achilles at various points? Yes. But so are Diomedes, Odysseus, Ajax, and practically the entire Greek army. At the highest point of Agamemnon and Achilles' rivalry, Achilles turns his back on everyone by not helping during the war. But yet Emily’s translation makes it seem like Agamemnon is some antagonistic villain who hurts his people, From as far as I know there is no point in which it is mentioned that Agamenom is a bad king to his people in other translations. She wants to build emotion and drama but creating drama but villainizing a character is no way to do so.

I hope that answers your question(?) and I’m sorry for that whole tirade lmao 

[random-krab]

NO NO STAY AWAY EMILY STAY AWAY PLEASE NO NO NO

I already can't wait to read Emily's translation, but every time I think about Hector and Andromache, my heart breaks.

[dropoutconfessions]

The writing and roleplay decisions the players in general, but Brennan in particular, made about Kipperlilly were somehow more misogynistic in how they handled the topic of a teenage girl being groomed than Election (1999)

-

[imstacks]

Thinking about how Saccharina is a storm sorcerer and Amethar is a storm herald barbarian.... she's definitely her father's daughter

[shirayuki7]

Bought Emily Wilson's Odyessy translation and I turn it over...

Top review was Madeline Miller.

The last review was Edith Hall.

That is fucking backwards. Edith Hall, a published and reknowned historian is at the bottom and a mediocre author is at the top????

[oflights]

[roseofithaca]

My problem with The Return

First off; this is objectively a good movie. It's well shot, well acted, I appreciate the tone and message it's going for. I wasn't expecting the action and bombastic emotion and happy ending of Epic's Ithaca Saga, or even how Stephen Fry retold the conclusion in his Odyssey (I've yet to finish the actual source, hoping to get hold of Emily Wilson's translation soon). This is obviously going for a sort of deconstructive narrative that tells an anti-war message and it gets that across.

However.... (SPOILERS)

I don't like them applying this sort of narrative to Odysseus of all people. The whole emotional core of his character and the Odyssey is that he's a man who was ALWAYS trying to get home- but kept getting stopped along the way by forces beyond his control. Return Odysseus...we don't know where he's been. There's a vague mention of him having been living on an island with another woman for all this time, either Circe or Calypso they're never named, but basically all the gods and monsters and supernatural stuff is gutted from the story similar to Troy (2004). The only reference to anything else during that time is Odysseus introducing himself once as 'Nobody', but that's mainly just an Easter egg. So we're left to assume he stayed with this other woman of his own free will rather than being trapped and SA'd. Basically it's stated that this Odysseus hasn't spent ten years trying to get home - he was so scarred from the Trojan war that he was afraid to come home. All the other kings apparently made it back, but not him. And also, as there's no mention of his soldiers dying at sea, it's implied they all died at Troy - yet no word has got to Ithica from those who returned to inform anyone there of that?? Okay.

But basically turning Odysseus into a deadbeat who chose to stay away for so long rather than a man trying his hardest to get back to his wife and son....it guts so much of the emotion out of the story. And Telemachus is rightly pissed off at at his dad and there's no resolution to that. He decides to leave pretty much once Odysseus has finished slaughtering the suitors. His father is still caked in blood when he says goodbye to his mum and leaves, without once ever embracing the father he's only just got back in his life.

Oh and Penelope in this version is upset when Telemachus kills Antinous; the man who the day before arranged a hunting party to kill him - her son, and who has been creepily stalking her for a year. For a moment I was wondering if we were meant to wonder if she reciprocated his feelings towards her? What the fuck did you do to my girl?

The whole thing just felt so empty to me. You can do the story of "traumatised soldier afraid to come home" in any place and time but it just feels wrong with this story in particular. Aside from the Argos death, I just felt nothing because there was nothing about these characters to have me rooting for them. They try to bring in a tender moment at the end between Penelope and Odysseus but it feels too little, too late.

Not something I'm gonna watch again. But will still probably be better than Nolan's. We'll see.

[gh0stlyb34r]

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[alatismeni-theitsa]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6_olobo19o/?igsh=MTloNjEzaWNweTBnag==

It's a bit strange to see that she can't even pronounce the ancient greek she's using correctly. Of course, since she's not a native speaker she won't have the perfect pronunciation but still, I'd always imagined that she'd have spoken it better. Even the "PatrOklous" feels annoying.

Emily Wilson my behated.. Anglo classicists being Anglo classicists - what did we expect. Also she's talking about Achilles calling Patroclus "philos", a word she doesn't even pronounce right even though it's a two-syllable word and the stressing marks are RIGHT THERE. Thankfully she doesn't say that the "philos" or the text in general shows erotic love between Achilles and Patroclus, which shows at least she has done the most basic research xD

But she also makes an oversight when speaking about a phrase. Achilles saying for Patroclus "I love him like my head" doesn't necessarily translate into "I love him like myself". Once more western writers ignore Greek sentiments. Equating people to body parts in Greek culture and nearby ancient cultures means "he is very precious to me (as precious as this body part is to me)". This affects Wilson's approach and she then thinks that Achilles considers Patroclus "a part of his own body", and that when Patroclus dies Achilles loses "his head / his thoughts". This approach feels a bit lucklaster, ngl.

The phrase is like the English "he's the apple of my eye", and if I were to analyse this English phrase how Wilson and more of her ilk do it for Greek, I would be say""Of my eye" means that Achilles covets this particular fruit as it's the only one in his eyes, and so he desires Patroclus! Plus, so many fruits are consumed during this Epic, so when Patroclus dies Achilles is without food and nourishment!" 😂

That's cute speculation on her part but again, just speculation. I am not saying her speculation is out of the question, but sometimes considering the Greek cultural norms (ancient and newer) when studying the Greek epics can turn you into a new direction.

[random-krab]

I have read various variations (6 to be exact) of the iliad here is my ranking. (These are judge on factors such as, How much I personally enjoyed them, Poem vs Prose, Biases, writing style, drama, and how pretty the covers are (Pretty covers may not be a important part of the literature experience but its important to me and I do want I want on this blog)

1. Lattimore, Lattimores translation is beautiful, Its the most faithful to the original, it keeps a good amount of drama with its rythm, I love this translation. most of the editions of this also have a pretty cover

2. Fragles, it was considered the best for awhile and it still is up there, its nicely written and is a great translation for people new to epics!

3. Fitzgerald, a pretty good translation all together but a lot of the words he chooses to use are iffy if not completely changed from the original greek.

4. Caroline, The first woman to translate the iliad, She does a pretty decent job, it's written in a Prose and is easy to read, there is some minor bias but other then that its pretty and a clean read.

5. Samuel Butler, I am currently reading this so forgive me if this is edited later on. This version comes along with the odyssey and it's written in a prose, it pretty simple but there is some major bias in this towards Achilles in the first and second book (I am not on the third yet). Also he strangely uses the Roman gods rather then greek. But other then those things it a easy read and is doing its job as a nice cheap pretty book.

6. Emily Wilson. You knew this was coming, I am the #1 Wilson hater, I have a whole rant as to why and to repeat that would be a waste of time and energy rather here is the link to that post

[marxandangels]

So much of this recent surge of anti intellectualism is complete terror about the idea of feeling confusion and discomfort. People who do things like get wildly defensive about not knowing anything about one of the most influential works in all of human history—bc it’s too confusing and academic or whatever and therefore useless—seem to think that every idea can be communicated with 100% clarity and that upon first read of something, they should be able to understand every single part of it. And if they can’t, that means that the writing is bad and not worthwhile. Ideas are complex! Sometimes that means it doesn’t all make sense instantaneously! Sometimes that means it doesn’t all make sense perfectly ever bc it’s not supposed to! Meaning is messy!

And it is especially funny that people are doing this about the odyssey right now bc ambiguity is a huge theme in it, especially about Odysseus as a character. Literally the first adjective used to describe Odysseus on the first page of the odyssey is a Greek word that is very ambiguous to translate and translators argue about all the time. “Polytropos,” most literally translates to “of many turnings” but depending on the tone the translator is going for can be cunning, crafty, conniving, genius, wandering, heroic, skillful, etc etc. My personal favorite is Emily Wilson’s “complicated.”

I taught writing and reading comp to people with significant learning disabilities for years, and let me tell you, avoiding being challenged is not the way to learn anything. You will be stuck with the knowledge you have now forever if you run away from everything that’s unfamiliar or difficult.

[dropoutconfessions]

I hate when people say that disliking Saccharina is misogynistic. Because newsflash. Feminism is about equality, which includes acknowledging that women can be shitty too.

Also. The fact that she's an incredibly powerful character with a tragic backstory isn't even what bothers me about her. It's how she treats Ruby.

It's the insensitivity to Ruby and Amethar's grief. For fuck' sake, Ruby hadn't even said anything yet after delivering the killing blow to the Sugarplum Fairy and Saccharina immediately assumed Ruby would take full credit and be thankless. And then Saccharina also kept complaining about Ruby not warming up to her, when she never actually reached out to this grieving person to have some kind of decent heart to heart. Then there's considering having Ruby murdered after Ruby finally felt a little bit more ready to accept her, after finally getting closure with Jet.

Just cuz she's never experienced the same loss, doesn't mean she gets a pass to be so insensitive to others. That doesn't mean their tragedies should be some kind of pissing contest. Cuz that's what she was doing, every time Ruby and Amethar express grief and distrust after the shit they went through, Saccharina's so quick to go "well I never grew up with you all and my past is so so tragic." It's so invalidating. Like when people in real life tell you you can't be upset cuz you don't have it the worst. And that's So shitty and infuriating.

slight note: both ruby and saccharina consider having each other assassinated, at the suggestion of her mom and her crew respectively

[hightownquccn]

POSSIBLE SIDEBLOG CREATION

Please VOTE on which one you think would be fun to play with.

Adding a little more description that I have thought out in my head. Some is canon from MCU/comics and some is the twist I want to put on the character for my portrayals*.

Agent ???. ( I still have no name for him ) former SHIELD agent. best friend of Sharon Carter. or so he likes to claim. computer genius. skinny white boy. flirt. bisexual. he's annoying but really a sweetheart. not big on field work. but he can hack.

( ? (name undecided) is a former agent of SHIELD now mini-Tony Stark minus the suit and superhero status. Coming up through the academy he somehow befriended a woman by the name of Sharon Carter when they were put on an undercover assignment together. He was mostly just the support but made a few appearances in his undercover roll when needed to support Sharon aka 'Emily'.

A bit of a nerdy genius all he has ever wanted was to feel wanted and valuable. He was loyal to SHIELD until it fell thanks to HYDRA infiltrating and finally revealing themselves. With the fall of SHIELD, he used his knowledge to freelance and made a name for himself. He has been known to take on projects to help the likes of former SHIELD-loyal agents. He is very anti-HYDRA. )

Alex. "Dove". literature professor. musician. Inhuman. pain manipulator. Guatamalan/naturalized American.

( Original mini description that may be tweaked: Alex received his nickname of Dove from his mother in what almost feels like a different time. She used to call him her little pacifist. Now a lot older ( and not necessarily a whole lot wiser ) he still holds that peace should be tried before war.

After terrogenesis, Alex discovered he now has the power to cause pain in others. It goes against a lot of what his parents taught him growing up and what he believes in...but he isn't an idiot. Sometimes if you have a gun in your face or pointed at a loved one you need to act. So as much as he hates his powers he does try and avoid it if at all possible. Known for his aversion to violence many have begun calling him the Dove. )

Steve Rogers. captain america. the first avenger. the little guy. the man out of time.

( Steve is a World War II veteran, a founding member of the Avengers, and Earth's first known superhero. Rogers grew up suffering from numerous health problems, and upon the United States' entry into World War II, he was rejected from serving in the United States Army despite several attempts to enlist. Rogers ultimately volunteered for Project Rebirth, where he was the only recipient of the Super Soldier Serum. 

Fighting in the war, he served his country before supposedly sacrificing himself in a plane crash. Decades later he was awoken from his sleep and begins to readjust to modern life. Cap is needed once again and he picked up the mantel again, joining The Avengers. He served with his fellow members for a time before eventually post The Snap 2.0 retiring. He has passed the mantel on to a man formerly known as Falcon, Sam Wilson. Now he is trying to figure out what to do with his life. )

Amora of Asgard. The Enchantress. asgardian. formerly exiled to Midgard by the Allfather. seductress. intelligent.

( Parentage unknown. While still in adolescence, she ran away to the land of the Norns and apprenticed herself to Karnilla, one of the most powerful sorceresses in all the Asgardian dimension. There she studied all the basic arts of Asgardian magic until Karnilla expelled her for being too undisciplined. She picked up further mystical skills from seducing other Asgardian mages and wizards. In time, Amora became one of the more powerful magic-wielders in Asgard, with her magical arsenal focused on (but not limited to) charming and mind-controlling people. Her by-then well-renowned beauty did not hinder in this.

Amora has always had an obsession with Thor. She has been used as a weapon by the Allfather to try and distract Thor from his love of the human, Jane Foster. But she has also done things unsanctioned by the royalty of Asgard. During one of her many attempts to make the God of Thunder hers she is caught and sentenced by the Allfather to Midgard. While there she took up the name of Sylvie Lushton. Stripped of her powers she is/was stuck in the realm until Thor is banished as well. When Loki appears they strike a deal and she regained her powers. )

KEY NOTES*

I would not play Steve as having gone back in time to rejoin Peggy. He stayed in his current timeline and lives in New York.

I play Amora as having 'Sylvie Lushton' as her mortal name in tribute to the two different women that had the title of Enchantress in the comics.

[dhampiravidi]

marvel canon - eleanor "ellie" camacho

template taken from here

General Information

Name: Eleanor "Ellie" Camacho Aliases: Deadpool DOB: ??? (age 14 as of 2024) Gender: Cis Female Sexuality: Questioning Species: Homo sapien superior aka Human Mutant Ethnicity: Cuban, Jamaican & White (American) Affiliation: herself

Physical Appearance (FC: Herizen Guardiola)

Ellie is a 5'2" (1.57 m) young person who trains regularly. She takes after her mother, having the same brown skin, dark brown eyes & slightly curly black hair ending just past her neckline. Her ears are pierced. Like her father, she has a somewhat lanky build that is toned. Ellie's Deadpool costume is a red & black skintight, high-collared tactical suit, with a brown leg holster, brown knife holster, brown compartment belt & brown half-length jacket. The jacket's hood is red & she wears a version of her dad's classic red & black mask. Her favorite color to wear as a civilian is pink, which she often wears in the form of a t-shirt.

History

She was conceived after her mother, Carmelita, had a one-night stand with Wade Wilson. Her mom sought Wade out after Ellie was born, but he thought Ellie was too beautiful to be his child. Ellie & her mom were later kidnapped by The Butler as revenge on Wade, who the villain wanted to use to cure his sister. By the time Wade escaped his captor, Carmelita was dead & Ellie had been given to The Butler's brother. SHIELD Agent Emily Preston, a friend of Deadpool's, would end up tracking the girl down, but not before Ellie had been threatened by agents of the terrorist group ULTIMATUM, as well as by Flag-Smasher. Wade rescued his daughter, who was sent to live with the Prestons while Wade killed all of ULTIMATIUM. For a time, Wade gave up being Deadpool & spent time with Ellie & his other loved ones--until an Incursion temporarily destroyed Earth-616 (it was later restored). When HYDRA's Secret Empire was extant, Wade kidnapped Eillie & had her attend Baron Zemo's School for Superior Students in DC. As he had become an agent of HYDRA, Wade was neglecting Ellie while he went on missions. She returned to the Prestons on her own & would eventually forgive her father. As a teen, she trains under Taskmaster. By 2099, she's assumed the role of Deadpool & is an accomplished hero.

Personality

Ellie cares for her family deeply, including her father, who she appears to love unconditionally. As a child, she disliked violence, including that which involves anti-heroes killing each other, as she convinced Wade to not kill someone on a mission. As she gets older, she's eager to help her father on missions, mostly because she wants to spend time with him.

Powers / Abilities:

Regeneration: once she dies, she is reborn as a teenager, with all of her memories & none of her previous wounds. Healing Factor: among other things, it allows her to build up muscle mass & learn faster than the average human her age. Fighting Skills: she's trained in melee & hand-to-hand combat with Taskmaster. She's especially proficient in dual-wielding knives.

[juniperusashei]

Homer’s Iliad translated by Emily Wilson - 3/5

I think I must have been assigned to read Homer’s Iliad on at least three separate occasions throughout my youth, and Sparknotesed it every time. Which I feel bad about, because I always did want to read it, or maybe I wanted the clout that came with being a person who reads Greek epic poetry. In any case, when Emily Wilson’s new translation was released last year, I finally went for it. I had read selections from her Odyssey and found her approach to translation very accessible and easy to read. There was a lot of media hype about “the first woman to translate Homer” which led to some reviewers claiming this was a feminist reinterpretation of The Iliad. My pet theory is that they had her confused for Maria Dahvana Headley, whose translation of Beowulf was intentionally transformative. In any case, Wilson’s Iliad is meant to be fairly traditional and accurate to the original text, including some metrical craft I could not pick up on. Compared to all the other times I tried to finish the Iliad, I found Wilson’s version a much easier read, so I would recommend it for that reason. The supplemental materials are also way more impressive than most editions and justify the extra cost over just a Project Gutenberg download. Wilson’s introduction is hefty to say the least, at around 75 pages, and was often more moving than the poem itself (She even defends the infamous third chapter, the Catalogue of Ships, imploring the reader to “read them out loud: in mouth and ear, the long list of names become music.” I find comparisons of superhero movies to mythology mostly kind of dumb, but I could see Homer’s audience going crazy each time their guy’s name is called in this chapter the same way people soyface about the Avengers or whatever.) She provides all the context for a beginner like me to understand the poem, but also includes an extensive glossary and notes for each chapter for those who want to dive deeper. The hardcover edition is around $40, so whether or not this masterful editing justifies the high price honestly depends on how much you like reading about guys getting stabbed over and over again. I just got it from the library.

The poem itself was not as impressive. A lot of armchair critics (NOT Wilson) love to claim The Iliad as an anti-war piece to make it palatable to modern audiences. This was not my impression in the slightest. Sure, the epic deals with the horrors of war, often brutally (as I said before, pages upon pages of vivid gory disembowelments) but it seems the product of a society which obsessively fetishized war. I’m not condemning the text based on this, but I do think it’s harder to understand without unpacking the very different set of values that were held back then, so it’s a lot easier to attempt to update the text in a really sloppy way. Wilson does give a really cogent explanation of these ethical differences which helped me understand the text more fully, but that doesn’t mean I agree with it. Every time the equivalent of a Star Trek redshirt got killed off, Homer would expound on his ancestry and life, and then conclude with something like

…Menelaus stabbed his forehead above his nose, right at the bridge, and broke his skull, and popped his eyeballs out.

I literally opened to a random page and found something disgusting on my first try. It’s incessant. But I can see how telling each person’s life story dignifies their death. Still, it is hard to feel any sympathy for men who did not see women as people, but as property, as goes the inciting incident of The Iliad.