#and the platforms that enable them to take what side

[happycattail]

I think there’s an interesting study to be had about Twitter CR Fandom vs Tumblr CR Fandom when it comes to character conflict and the sides that they choose.

I believe during the whole Ashton and Fearne Shard debacle, Tumblr sided with Fearne while Twitter sided with Ashton and there were once again words of “infantilization” of woman being thrown around.

It’s similar to the current fandom conflict except in the opposite direction now. It’s Twitter on Laudna’s side and Tumblr on Orym’s side and “infantilization” is being used yet again as an argument against siding with the more feminine presenting characters of the group.

Not to mention the way everyone keeps trying ti shift all the blame into one character or even those who says that “both are in the wrong” there’s a very clear emphasis on who is “more wrong”

[queensqewed0722]

Will I ever get over this drama? I just started rewatching from the first episode on Viki, with comments enabled. But I think it’s good to rewatch coz the first time, I was still overwhelmed by all the information even as I was keeping up with reading the subtitles. I also didn’t have any comments from other viewers on the other platform, which could sometimes help in understanding the context of a scene or dialogue better (especially since I’m not Chinese). Now, I’m more relaxed and able to take in the subtler parts, especially in the dialogues. I have the luxury of not paying attention visually all the time.

One good example of my having failed to catch the nuances during my initial watch is the part when Shen Li in her phoenix form asked Xingzhi (as the mortal Xingyun) what he was going to do in the market. I don’t know any Mandarin and the other platform I first watched this in didn’t give any side notes on such languange nuances so I had no idea of the double meaning behind the words Xingyun used in his reply.

Apparently, the words he used to say that he sells ginseng sounds almost the same phonetically as the words used to mean he was going to sell himself (i.e. prostituting himself). Hence, Phoenix Shen Li’s shock and initial disgust towards him. It made that scene doubly hilarious to me upon second viewing.

I’m also more appreciative now of Shen Li and Xingzhi’s initial interactions in their phoenix and mortal forms, respectively. I’m better able to understand now why Shen Li fell hard for him and how she grew on Xingzhi till she became very dear to him. His beloved, in fact.

As a phoenix in the mortal world, Shen Li was perceived as a chicken, albeit a weird looking one, an ordinary creature with little to recommend it in those days except as food for the people. She was one of the weakest creatures and her life very expendable. What a stark contrast from her life in the Demon Realm, where she is styled Lord of the Azure Sky, wielder of the powerful Red Plume Spear. She is a great general of their army, a princess for all intents and purposes. Here in the mortal world, she’s forced to rely on a sickly and impoverished mortal man for sustenance and protection.

As for Xingzhi, the disparity of his mortal life from his old life is even greater. He is poor and sickly Xingyun, living alone in a house quite far from the center of population. He’s forced to live on meager fare, whatever selling ginseng can bring him. And most of his small earnings go to his medicines. His body is frail so that it seems as if he can die anytime.

Yet in his true form, he is the last of the Ancient Gods in the Sky Above Heaven. He’s the most powerful being in the universe, and the lives of all three realms are in his hands.

As for why Xingzhi chose to live as a mortal in such state, it’s probably because he felt it would give him a more varied and intense experience of humanity and its challenges.

So here were these two beings, reduced to such circumstances, finding themselves living together and depending on each other. They got to know one another without the burdens and trappings of their positions, and it allowed their relationship to grow into something more authentic. In a way, one can say that this brief period where everything started between them was what allowed them to love each other just as themselves, as simply Shen Li and Xingzhi. Not as Lord Of The Azure Sky and The Divine Lord of the Sky Above Heaven and the Three Realms.

This initial arc goes on for several episodes before Shen Li finally returns to the Demon Realm and they meet again, this time with Xingzhi in all his understated glory as Divine Lord Xingzhi, and she as the Lord Of The Azure Sky. I think it was the perfect foundation for the relationship that they developed later on. It was a love so strong that it literally shook all the Three Realms and eventually led to the destruction of the Sky Above Heaven, ending the age of the ancient gods.

Some of the fans complain that the development of some arcs took a chunk out of the series, that some arcs were dragging and they saw little sense in it. For me, those viewers are probably the types who got used to the instant gratification that’s usually seen in Western dramas or those who don’t have the patience to finish reading a book. They always want to skip to the good parts and then they keep pestering other viewers with questions on why this happened or why that is so.

Anyway, whatever else these foolish viewers may say, TLOS will remain one the best CDramas ever. Almost all its characters, especially the ones who portray key roles, were well rounded and developed. And the execution of the story was top-notch, from the first time Xingzhi’s eyes fell on this weird chicken, until the end, when he and Shen Li return to the mortal world to live their life together happily and peacefully in that house where their love first blossomed.

[latibvles]

fix the unfixable.

a bit late but for the next prompt “injured” i was, ahem, enabled into some POW Camp angst by somebody *cough* @thoughpoppiesblow *cough* so here’s that: post-Münster featuring June, Viv, & Lena through Lena’s eyes. No one said i had to go in order of occurrence for these so we are skipping around because it’s fun. General warning for the mistreatment of POWs & discussion of character death, although we don’t get especially detailed about it! Better safe than sorry.

—

“This is bullshit.”

“June.”

“What?! S’not like they can understand me. This is all fucking bullshit.”

Lena’s mouth feels like it’s been stuffed full of cotton: not just because of the lack of solace she can provide, but also because the last spot where they had water was the transit camp. Then they’d been subjected to more of a train, more walking — screamed at when they falter in a language Lena vows to never, ever learn.

And Viv was taking it like a champ the whole time — indifferent in the face of their screaming, chin jut out in silent defiance and refusing help from either her or June up and until she stumbled getting off the train and June had pretty much tossed her body over her own, screaming ‘She fell! She fucking fell!’ in the face of red-faced screaming guards and barking, feral dogs.

Lena stood there, feeling stupid and helpless in all the ways that actually mattered.

They pointed guns in their faces and for a moment Lena thought she would be doing the rest of this journey alone. 

Now they’re half-carrying her, because it doesn’t take a genius to know that whatever’s up with Viv’s ankle isn’t going to be pretty if they ever get the chance to look at it — and the tumble off the platform certainly didn’t help. Viv’s head is both bloody and bowed in unshakable concentration as she tries to keep the weight off it.

Okay, so June’s right, this is bullshit. It’s cold, they’re all bruised and battered and cut to hell, Lena’s fairly certain they’re the only ones that made it out of their fort alive, and the one person she’s known to stand tall no matter the circumstances can’t even use both legs right now. Sudden movements mean getting shot though, so as much as she wants to scream — she doesn’t. She just tightens her grip on Viv, and prays to whatever God might be listening that she and June can make a half-decent pair of human crutches.

Lena hates it; she hates that there’s nothing she can do to fix this.

That’s her job, isn’t it? Fixing things — the electrical problems in their plane, engine troubles, keeping them in the air so the pilot could get them home. Well they were on the ground, now, birds with clipped wings and boulders tied to their ankles. Any attempt to escape would be pointless. And even if they tried, it wasn’t like they’d make it very far, tired and hungry like this, behind enemy lines. What would more likely occur would be they’d get recaptured by some German farmer and be tossed right back into this POW carousel.

The last person who’d tried to run had been shot, his body tossed carelessly onto the train car, and all Lena could think was that leaving his body on the side of the road would’ve been kinder. That’s probably why they chose to toss it onboard.

Lena was never the superstitious type. She didn’t bring any good luck charms on a mission or say any prayers. She complied with the crew’s tradition of smacking the top of the doorframe where they hung Viv’s old PT shirt, the Pallas Athena acting as a flag and a “good luck charm” according to Inez. She’d never believed that either.

But it had to be some type of karmic thing. You go up while your two anchors have to sit the mission out, in a fort that isn’t yours ‘cause yours is too banged up to see the sky right now. Maybe it was God striking their plane down, or guiding the rocket that took out one of their engines.

She couldn’t fix the unfixable — she wasn’t Josie or Willie. Lena could only ever fix the things she could see, and there was no solution here beyond a bullet to the head, maybe.

Viv winces as she stumbles in her attempt to keep off her bad foot, a sharp and quiet sound, and Lena’s jaw clenches.

“Could always get on my back, Captain.” She murmurs.

“M’fine.” On the opposing side, June scoffs.

“You hit your head or something? She’s too heavy.” Lena’s brows furrow, and her lips tug into a frown.

“I could try.”

“They’d shoot you first for sudden movements.”

“And if they do?”

“Don’t you start playing fucking hero too,” June hisses, but there’s a crack to her voice that nearly kills Lena. Birds with clipped wings, or wounded dogs? Some bodies never make it out of the plane and the ones that do don’t always hit the ground.

And they knew that, distantly, and personally, but now they knew that fact intimately.

“Guys, really, it’s fine. Just a slip.” Viv’s voice is still scratchy and hoarse from days without use — solitary confinement will do that to a person. Lena feels guilt settling in her own aching, tired bones, and looking across to June, the sentiment seems to be shared.

“Sorry Cap,” Lena sighs out quietly, and June mumbles a similar, garbled apology. But that's not even the half of it. She wants to splutter a million apologies for a million different things — I'm sorry we had to bail, and I'm sorry I can't carry you, and I'm arguing in your ear, and you'd probably want anyone but me with you right now, and—

Viv shakes her head, and although she smiles, it barely reaches her eyes.

“S’like being back in the air,” she insists. “When you all start arguing about something stupid over the comms…” She trails off, and the silence between the three of them is so loud in that moment that it almost pushes Lena to tears. They're wounded in every way a person could be, and for Lena, that fact alone is humiliating. “That’s a no-go on the piggyback ride though. Save your strength.”

Ahead of them, one of the officers shouts what Lena can only assume is something akin to Shut up, Bomber Bitch all encompassed in one word in German.

Lena cranes her head up to try and see over a few of the heads and get a gauge of where they’re walking to. If it’s another train or car, she might just lose her mind.

Metal wire, wood posts, fences miles high and towers looming over them and touching the slate gray sky. Before Lena can even try to make out what the signs say, the gates are being pushed open, and the rattling is only overpowered by a long, low siren that sends a chill up her back and has Viv lifting her head once more — just barely.

That’s when the shouting starts all at once — loud and low, names and what Lena assumes are nicknames being hurled at them and the group they’re walking with. She can barely make sense of the numbers and names being shouted at her. Johns and Joes and Smiths. She doesn’t recognize any voices sticking out amongst the din, even if she can pick out a few of the sentences.

“Shit, more broads?”

“They don’t got their own camp?”

“Hey blondie, what group you ladies with?!”

Lena looks at June, who’s jaw looks so clenched her teeth might crack, and she wonders if the trembling comes from her own legs trying not to give out or if it’s from the effort not to say something that’ll get them in more trouble the moment they make it down this endless corridor. She contorts her own arm, just for a moment, to pat at June’s where they’re looped around Viv.

“Lena!” For a moment, she’s convinced she’s hearing things. Certainly not her, there’s gotta be another— “Red! Cuh-mahn O’Flannigan, over here!”

She’d recognize that accent anywhere, and even if she didn’t, there was only one group of guys who’d had the misfortune of giving her an itemized list of god awful “nicknames.” Her head whips this way and that until she finds them — and it takes everything in her not to let out a strangled cry of relief at the sight of Crank right by the fence. Harrie Morgan’s practically climbing on top of him, wild-eyed and hollering so nonsensically Lena can hardly understand her.

“Lena! Juney! Holy shit— that you Cap?”

Between them, Viv lets out a noise that sounds like something between a laugh and a sob.

“Though ya got lost! Inez, c’mere!” Lena waves her free arm dismissively, a promise of we’ll come to you posed on her tongue — but that’s not exactly what comes out as Viv begins to feel heavier and heavier on their shoulders.

“Gonna need some extra hands! We got precious cargo over here!”

[lesbianredhoodedmercenary]

wait kromer rant sounds interesting

Ohhhh the Kromer rant.

Nobody in Limbus thus far has been hit with the fandom flanderization "she would not fucking say/do that" beam harder than Kromer. I've seen both absurdly sexualized "yandere" Kromer and woobified to hell and back Kromer. I think a large swath of people just... ignore that the central pillar of her character is that she is an ableist cult leader.

Yes, she is probably only around 23-24 years old, and yes based on the source material she probably came from a much poorer family than Sinclair. But trying to twist that into her being a hapless victim of circumstance leaves a sour taste in my mouth when we're first introduced to her through the fact that she considers anyone with a prosthetic less than human. Like. We can't ignore the violent bigotry here. N-Corp may have decided to give her a platform for it, but it's not like they groomed her into wanting to kill everyone with prosthetics. She was already like that, and N-Corp simply enabled her to do that on a wide reaching scale because they could make a profit from it (N-Corp's singularity is memory extraction iirc, and the nails are able to extract memories from the people they kill, which in turn are sold by N-Corp as "Experiences" and also what they feed to Nagel und Hammer members to brainwash them).

And as for whatever yandere shit I've seen, I think that's just a refusal to engage with the themes of the text. A shipping-brain only reading. Like, the reason Kromer is obsessed with Sinclair is because if she can convince him to join her, that is a powerful talking point for her cause. "Look, the son of a major prosthetics manufacturer is on our side! His family was going to force him to get a full-body replacement. Isn't it cruel to force that on someone who's barely out of high school? Aren't prosthetics cruel. Aren't they inhuman?" It's a game of rhetoric to her. Sinclair was going through the stress of not wanting a cosmetic surgery and Kromer saw how she could use him as a pawn in her anti-prosthetics agenda.

And Lust as a skill does not necessarily refer to sexual desire. I already said this but since greed was replaced with gloom, lust becomes the de-facto sin for desire. Bloodlust, lust for power, lust for revenge, ect. The fact that some people will take the themes of Kromer's story; how a corporation will platform the most violent bigot they can find to increase their profit margins, how inherently hypocritical Kromer's ideas of "purity of the flesh" are, and how if you give someone so violently bigoted an inch they'll take a mile, and just throw all those out the window in favor of her being some kind of evil succubus obsessed with Sinclair because she wants to fuck him is just incredibly, mind-numbingly frustrating.

And the concept of "Vagina Dentata" needs to be put up on a high shelf until anyone who wants to say distorted Kromer has one can pass an elementary level reading comprehension test.

[florvaine]

tbh im losing my will to write bc all the cc's that i used to watch/did watch have been revealed to be terrible people that no part of me can support.

this is gonna be a bit of a rant of everything i stand on during this

support, send love and stand with shelby, alice, caiti, lexie, em, andi, moonzy and others taking a stand and finally showing the true colours of these 'men'. at the same time support, send love and stand with others that came out/were forced to talk about their experiences with this topic before such as cellbit, jack and niki. also show love for those standing up with the victims and supporting them no matter what - aimsy, billzo, max, ranboo, harry, etc. etc.

NOBODY who supports people like wilbur, illumina, george, sapnap, dream, punz, draggie and other 'influencers' who use their platforms for these horrific actions is welcome on my blog. i do not care if youre 'waiting for a response' - you have picked a side by doing that, whether you'd like to hear that or not, and it is not the victims. these 'men' are R4PISTS, ENABLERS, ABUSERS, RACISTS.

THIS ISNT DRAMA. the things these 'men' are saying theyve been revealed of doing - not accused, accused means 'claiming someone has done something wrong' - in this situation it is FACTUAL. the experiences these women have gone through do not deserve to be watered down to just 'internet drama' or 'twitter drama'. these 'men' have done ILLEGAL ACTS and deserve to rot behind bars for getting off on the manipulation, abuse and exploitation of these women, and i hope they get the justice they deserve for their actions.

a common thread between the majority of these cases is the theme of consent and alcohol. seems like the british attackers werent there for the tea video. the moment someone has alcohol in their bloodstream, they cannot consent. whether they have had one drink or 20, or if both parties are drunk, there is not consent. if there is not a clear, uncoerced, uninfulenced and solid 'yes' then there is not consent and it is assault/r4pe. this is not my opinion, this is THE LAW.

it is not your fault if you 'couldnt tell'. with wilbur, yes, he frequently used the 'tragic artist' role in his songs, but at the time it was said BY HIM to be a character, this is supported by his e-girl trilogy and the fact he said himself he was PLAYING an incel character. he is a manipulator, and the rest of the 'men' are liars too. they all sat behind screens showing a version of themselves best suited to gathering fame, and didnt feel bad about flipping completely when the streams or cameras turned off. HOWEVER, it is YOUR FAULT if you still support the 'men'. people saying 'he saved me' or 'he wouldnt do this' - MOTHERFUCKER HE JUST DID?? HELLO?? yes, it can be hard letting go of someone/something you loved, but it has to be done. i didnt want to get rid of a barbie when i was younger because playing with it made me happy, but i did anyways and guess what? i got over it. you do not know these 'men'. YOU ARE NOT LOSING A REAL LIFE FRIEND, YOU ARE LOSING A TOXIC, PARASOCIAL RELATIONSHIP.

for the (few) people who might see this and go 'whyre you so pressed' - i have experienced my own trauma in the past and that is all i will say, i do not owe it to you to go into full miniscule detail about what happened. hearing all the people i grew up watching doing the same things that i have and still am effected by today makes me feel sick, that isnt a metaphor either, it brings up bad memories and makes it even harder to detatch yourself from these situations. these 'men' have done irreversible actions. whilst it may have given them a sick minute of pleasure, it has haunted and traumatised these women for the rest of their lives. they are only 'apologising' or 'addressing' their actions because they do not want to lose their platforms. since the start their fans have only been a number, and the second that number drops they get all panicky and try do all the damage control they can. DO NOT SUPPORT THESE 'MEN'. SUPPORT THE VICTIMS. caiti shelby alice lexie em andi moonzy

i think im done with my rant. more might have to be added idk tho. bye bye

[goldmanguyperson]

world will become slightly better place once self proclaimed “pro endos” stop trying to pander to the “polite” “anti endos”. Do not tag your posts “properly” for any reason but to keep your mental health fine and signal safety to others. Do not give them special words or communities. Do not actively direct them to communities where they can continue to be assholes with support; where they will be stuck in an echo chamber. Do not give them any ground, and do not “help” them. Do not make them feel safe in their beliefs. what they are doing is bigotry and what you are doing by letting them walk on you is aiding and abetting bigotry. It does not matter what your intent is. Marginalized people who understand the place in society they have been forced into don’t go up and talk to bigots for a damn reason, no matter how “nice” they are about it. A sheep shouldn’t lead a starving wolf back to its pack, and it definitely shouldn’t lead the pack to the herd.

Even regardless of the affect on endogenic systems—their beliefs still uphold a system that continually takes away the self determination of disabled people, injures and traumatizes them permanently, refuses to give actual, personalized, informed aid, and forces children on medication with side effects they were never even told of. Psychiatry is not a pretty branch of medicine for disabled people, literally the most visible group of people it is meant to help.

Not only that, “anti endo” beliefs advocate for refusing to give people help when they cannot be diagnosed, which if done by a doctor for any disorder or illness, physical or mental, is literally malpractice (which yes, is already sadly commonplace, but it should be pushed against, not enabled). Their beliefs are not just harmful to systems that aren’t strictly traumagenic. They are generally ableist and regressive. You should not be giving them any kind of platform, not even to “give them ways to stay away from our communities”.

[black-wolf-spirit-art]

It's okay to have some miscommunication and miss some details on some parts. As long as you communicate further to fix an issue, everything is okay!

Since there is money involved, the matter on the situation is much more important, definitely, and the client is the boss.. but don't beat yourself up for this, okay? Mistakes happens and you went through a rough one...

Just take the time to talk things out and take as much details as possible next time so you can prevent unnecessary comes and goes.

Just please understand the client like the client understands you too so everyone gets a win!/lh

Hi there! I assume this was about the Afreakingdorks post. Thank you that's very sweet. And thank you for reaching out.

There was absolutely some miss communication between the two of us and I adapted to all of her requests as best I could. The issues arose when she requested more than 3 edits past the sketch phase. In my price sheet I state that they are alowed unlimited edits in the sketch phase, then 3 free edits past the sketch stage, but after 3 edits I would need to start charging for my time. This is when the issues began because they were unwilling to pay for edits but insisted, I make them for free. When they were unwilling to compromise, and the conversation was seeming to go downhill I agreed to show them the flats layer to prove I did in fact add gray to their Sona's fur and reduced the opacity in the light layers to make them show more. I also emailed the files to them with the edit function enabled so they could mess with the files any way they pleased since it was not quite what they had wanted. I also offered them a 50% refund for the piece which they refused. I know they were also talking about the file "conveniently appearing" after they harassed me on 2 different tumblr accounts. But they didn't consider that I had sent them 3 high resolution PNG's that take a few minutes to send over. So I guess to her it looked like they just appeared after she started spamming me on her two other accounts.

To be perfectly clear to any of her followers that came to my page due to this altercation. She received several WIP's. She made edits to those WIP's which I then made, and she approved of them/ gave the thumbs up for me to continue the illustration. This happened several times during the sketch phase and 3 times during the line art phase. She then received said finished piece but requested more edits for free. When I told her I couldn't make any more edits for free she got upset. She requested I send what I had to her email which I did, and she received it. The transaction was completed.

She also showed screenshots of our conversation but cut them up and rearranged them to make it look like I was taking advantage of her on her blog.

I've been receiving commissions for over 5 years and never had an issue with a customer. I'm always willing to compromise with the customer as well. But once it was clear she was trying to get more work for free and continued to gaslight me in the conversation, it was time for the transaction to end. They paid for a fully rendered illustration with two characters and two side images. I illustrated the background for free for them. Thats the full image they received. I would share our screenshots as well and the image itself but since It was an NSFW piece and there are minors following me I do not want to expose the imagery to on this platform.

There were several instances where they were directing me to manga/comic style while contradicting themselves and insisting I draw it in my own style and liked where the piece was going which added another layer of confusion.

All and all this has absolutely been an interesting customer experience. If she wants to moan about how I hurt her reputation and sladerd her good name, she has ever right and I certainly won't stop her. It's disappointing to see from a 31 year old adult. But what can you do, I'm not willing to add to her pitty party.

I'm sorry to keep going on about this. That was a long post and I really appreciate the fact her followers are willing to stand up for her so much.

I'm just an illustrator she commissioned to draw her sona having sex with Donnie from ROTTMNT in a bathroom stall. I'm not interested in making this into a whole ordeal.

[ashadowofburnedoutstardust]

So lemme just "connect the dots" here:

So Russia pays for misinformation using bots created by Chinese tech companies creating fake accounts using user information collected from something like Zoom

Managed to help Trump and the GOP "fake news" their way to an election win

Chris ends up a target because he as well as others with a public platform who have spoken out against Trump, who have also been the victim of the same misinformation tactics in their fandoms to undermine their influence on public platforms, Christopher attempts to help debunk this by creating A Starting Point, which honestly seems to be the only thing still running that actually fact checks before publishing unlike mainstream media

His agency that has links to the GOP financially arrange for him to be linked to a racist Nazi (possibly also a scientologist) through the People Magazines sexiest man alive title and resulting PR

Meanwhile the WGA and SagAftra decide to strike and CAA take a massive hit because of the financial involvement and ends up having to sell a massive stake to Pinault to try and cover their losses and to enable the extension of the strike out until 2024 to try and bankrupt the strikers

Rumour spreads about Elon Musk, the guy that owns one of the public platforms secretly collecting info from Tesla vehicle owners to use as leverage and blackmail against famous people who have been filmed in their own vehicles using the tech installed in their cars

Meanwhile they send in the bigger stars like Clooney in with bad advice about what they can use to negotiate with and intentionally make them look like idiots to sow discord within Sag Aftra

(Get your fucking asses on the god damned picket line where they don't want you to be you fucking morons)

In the meantime the Georgia indictments continues while the GOP stalls electing a speaker to try and disable the US govt from being able to do anything meaningful as yet another distraction while possibly paying off a judge to mess things up for them

At this point yet another distraction breaks out in the form of Israel Vs Gaza being instigated by a terrorist group and no governments seem willing to enable a ceasefire agreement despite the continued loss of innocent civilians on both sides and takes over the main story in the media while the GOP continues to stall the speaker election to prevent the US govt from being able to do any more useful work

Meanwhile no one is looking into who is funding the Hamas, because no offence but I've never seen a terrorist group hold a fucking bake sale so somebody has to be funding them

In the meantime no one is looking at what China is trying to do in regards to Taiwan (yes it's called Taiwan, it's what the people who live there call it, it's why my country has two damn names) who also happened to get fucked over in regards to their tech in other countries with selling communication infrastructure

What the fuck am I supposed to do with this information?

I can't even fix my car right now ✌️

I need a new blender and a rice cooker, they both shat themselves last night

The rice cooker fell on the floor and won't cook anything anymore, and the cuff bit holding the blade in place broke on the blender

I like my small appliances

🤍🪽✨

[usafphantom2]

25 Years Ago Today: An U.S. F-117 Stealth Jet Is Shot Down Over Serbia 🇷🇸

March 27, 2024 Military Aviation

F-117 shot down

F-117 as seen through the NVGs (A1C Greg L. Davis, USAF, via National Archives)

OTD in 1999, “Vega 31” was shot down near Belgrade. Here’s how it went.

On Mar. 27, 1999, during the fourth night of Operation Allied Force (OAF) over Serbia, a U.S. Air Force F-117 Nighthawk (#82-0806), flown by Lt. Col. Darrell P. Zelko, was shot down while returning to Aviano airbase, after a strike mission against a target near Belgrade.

The F-117, callsign “Vega 31”, was hit by one of a series of missiles fired by a S-125 “Neva” missile system (NATO reporting name, SA-3 “Goa”) belonging to the 3rd Battalion of the 250th Air Defence Missile Brigade of the Army of Yugoslavia, at a distance of about 8 miles.

According to Sergeant Dragan Matić, the soldier later identified as the operator who fired the missiles, the stealth plane was detected at a range of about 50 to 60 kilometres and the surface-to-air missile radar was switched on for no more than 17 seconds.

F-117 wreckage in Serbia.

The pilot successfully ejected and was rescued between 5 and 8 hours later (depending on the sources): AFSOC (Air Force Special Operations Command) dispatched MH-53M, MH-53J and MH-60 aircrew along with Special Tactics Airmen responded to the emergency and, coordinated by E-3 AWACS and supported by several specialized platforms, including an EC-130E ABCCC and A-10 in Sandy role, rescued the F-117 pilot.

While the shootdown of the F-117 #82-0806 marked the first ever and only downing of a stealth aircraft in combat, how the Serbians managed to achieve the then almost unbelievable kill is still open to debate.

On one side, the Serbs claimed they had found a way to detect stealth aircraft by using slightly modified radars: the modifications involved the use of long wavelengths to try to “paint” the target at short range, exploiting the moment when the low observability of the Nighthawk was degraded by the opening of the bomb bay door.

However, this was not true: according to some Serbian sources, the story of the modification was purposely told by the battalion commander and served as propaganda. In the end there was no modification of the P-18 or SNR-125 radar.

What is true is that the Serbians were extremely cautious in operating their SAM batteries, dispatching messages without using cell phones or radios, so as not to risk to be intercepted and geo-located, and relocating the batteries across the country.

F-117 taxies at Aviano AB during Operation Allied Force (USAF)

In the end, besides the successful tactics used by the Serbians, the shootdown of the F-117 was also the result of a series of other contributing factors:

the use of the same route for the third day in a row, making the flight path of the stealth aircraft predictable

the lack of dedicated SEAD (Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses) support

the fact that the F-117 approached the Belgrade area flying at low level, jinking and banking

the Serbs knew that the F-117s were coming, because, they monitored U.S. and allied radio comms on UHF and VHF frequencies, which, at the time, were mostly unencrypted; were also able to intercept NATO plane’s ATO (Air Tasking Orders) that enabled them to put anti-aircraft batteries at positions close to the ground targets; relied on a network of spies who operated outside the Italian airbases spotting aircraft taking off and others, near the Serbian borders, who provided details about the incoming raids.

Anyway, the achievement of Colonel Dani Zoltan, who commanded the SAM battery of the 3rd Battalion and used a SAM system introduced in 1961, is impressive especially considering that, after shooting down “Vega 31”, “Hammer 34”, an F-16C of the 31st Fighter Wing piloted by Lt. Col. Dave Goldfein (future Chief of Staff of the United States Air Force) was also shot down by the 250th Air Defense Missile Brigade on May 2, 1999.

Moreover, it has also emerged that another F-117 was damaged by Serbian air defenses during Allied Force.

A Yugoslav propaganda poster, stating facetiously “Sorry we didn’t know it was invisible”.

The F-117 today

25 years after the famous and quite surprising, at that time, downing, the iconic F-117 continue to fly, despite being officially retired in 2008.

As we report quite frequently here at The Aviationist, F-117s are still flying not only for training purposes as adversary aircraft and cruise missile surrogate, but also for research, development, test and evaluation, possibly related to next generation programs.

In accordance with of the Nation Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) of 2007 (PL 109- 364, Section 136), 52 F-117 aircraft were retired and relocated to the Tonopah Test Range (TTR). Under the requirements of the NDAA, the USAF preserved each F-117 aircraft in Type-l000 (T-1000) storage, which maintains the aircraft in a condition that allows recall for future service. On 30 November 2016, Section 133 of Subtitle D of the National Defense Authorization Act repealed the requirement to preserve the F-117 aircraft in a recallable condition and the USAF intended to declassify, demilitarize, and disposition four F-117 aircraft per year.

F-117 Fresno

An F-117 Nighthawk lands for the first time at the Fresno Yosemite International Airport, Sept 13, 2021, to conduct training missions with the local Air National Guard unit. Two F-117 Nighthawks are participating in dissimilar air combat training missions this week along with F-15 pilots from the 144th Fighter Wing in Fresno, Calif. (Air National Guard photo by Capt. Jason Sanchez)

The aircraft continued to be spotted, even more than it had happened until then, with the Nighthawks also deploying to several U.S. bases to carry out Dissimilar Air Combat Training with other U.S. types. Then, in 2021, the U.S. Air Force published the first official images of the type still involved in flight operations on the DVIDS (Defense Visual Information Distribution Service) network.

In September 2022 the Air Force Test Center published a Request For Information (RFI) about a possible 10-year contract, expected to start from January 1, 2024, for maintenance and logistics support services for the F-117A fleet at the TTR airfield, acknowledging that the U.S. Air Force is willing to keep the aircraft flying at least until 2034. Interestingly, the U.S. Air Force is about to complete the certification of the F-117s to refuel from the KC-46: a sign that the service plans to keep the Nighthawk flying for many more years.

F-117

One of the two F-117s flying low over the Sierra Mountains on Apr. 21, 2023. (Image credit: @stinkjet)

About David Cenciotti

David Cenciotti is a journalist based in Rome, Italy. He is the Founder and Editor of “The Aviationist”, one of the world’s most famous and read military aviation blogs. Since 1996, he has written for major worldwide magazines, including Air Forces Monthly, Combat Aircraft, and many others, covering aviation, defense, war, industry, intelligence, crime and cyberwar. He has reported from the U.S., Europe, Australia and Syria, and flown several combat planes with different air forces. He is a former 2nd Lt. of the Italian Air Force, a private pilot and a graduate in Computer Engineering. He has written five books and contributed to many more ones.

@theAviationist via X

[n7punk]

I just opened my Redbubble and Society6 accounts (see this post for the designs I put up), so I wanted to do a post with a little information about my experience with the two different platforms. Let me start by saying this isn’t really researched, it’s entirely anecdotal and just meant to be a little context for anyone else thinking of picking this up.

First, I made these for myself, I’m not really expecting them to go anywhere, and in fact I want to say that I ask you don’t get one of these if it’s just to support me (since I’ve had people ask), if for no other reason than because there might be a Much better way to do that soon (note: soon is extremely relative and optimistic, I just wanted to put that disclaimer out there). That said, if you like the designs, that’s really cool and I hope you enjoy them!

As far as Redbubble (RB) versus Society6 (S6), S6 is more aimed at “artists” (original, including stuff like photography), and RB is more aimed at fandom, so there’s a pretty big difference in content between both the sites but they’re both print-on-demand (POD) marketplaces where artists can upload their designs and anyone can get them on any merch they enable the design for.

As for quality: in my experience, S6’s base products (case base, shirt base, etc) are higher quality while Redbubble’s printing and resolution are higher quality, so it depends which is more important for you. I’ve mostly gotten clothes and stickers off S6 in past and cases off RB, so for this launch I ordered one of my own cases from S6 (I did say I made them for me) so I could directly compare them, which led to my judgment above. I got snap cases for the same model of phone from both sites.

RB: I’ve ordered two cases from Redbubble and one of them was great while the other (six~ months ago) was partially defective. The first one didn’t need buttons and worked just fine. The second did and one of the buttons was poorly cut out and constantly held the volume down. I had to take the case off (which was extremely difficult) and then snap the volume buttons off (both to make it even) and use a small nail file to widen the button hole. I could have just gotten the one in a thousand that happens to be defective, but I can’t not mention it when I’m directing people there. Magnet charging still works well in a Redbubble case but I wouldn’t trust a magnetic wallet or popsocket attachment to stay on. The camera also has so little protection I felt like I had to go out and buy a protector just for that (which luckily fit around it within the case). The prints for the Redbubble cases seemed to be good representations of the designs, but as they were both other people’s designs and I never saw the original resolution, I can’t for sure say how much was preserved.

S6: The S6 case is made of a little thicker/sturdier plastic, but covers pretty much all of the same areas as the RB case did for the same phone (which is to say, I’m still glad I have a camera protector). The S6 case doesn’t try to have buttons, which is less convenient than a case with working buttons on this model of phone, but the button cutouts are wide with plenty of clearance to avoid defects. However, I’ll be honest and say I’m not happy with the print quality. It’s pretty fuzzy. I know their laptop stickers are good, as are their shirts, so I think it’s just a phone case or size condensation thing (which is interesting considering they REQUIRE you to upload very large images). Do with that knowledge what you will. Magnet charging works just as well as RB, and again I would say not to rely on other attachments.

Oh also if you’re curious, from the artist side I think the cut from both sites is about breakeven. RB gives 20% but then takes a fee of about half of it unless they deem you Special, and S6 is just a flat 10% (if there are more fees, I haven’t found them, but I also just launched lmao). So yeah just use whichever site you prefer. I’ve always preferred Society6 in theory but I think I’ll go to Redbubble for cases now. I honestly might order a second colorway off Redbubble in the “tough” case sometime to compare them and if I do I’ll update and maybe take a photo (I don’t like taking photos). I was thinking of taking a photo of S6 print but then I put it on my phone (you know, my camera) and. it is very hard to get off (I am extremely weak) so I’m not struggling with it until I’m actually replacing it.

[reddest-flower]

The Communist International struggled to balance the needs of its European members with the members from the countries colonized by Europe. The former represented the countries of the colonizers. They had to fight in their own societies to build organizations of the working class and other allied classes at the same time as they were charged with driving an anti-colonial agenda. The Comintern’s attempt to get them to hold a Colonial Conference spluttered. It was difficult to find out what these European communists – seen as a pipeline to the colonies – were doing in terms of practical work to build alliances between workers in their countries and in the colonies. These European communists found it difficult to work amongst workers in their countries who had been dominated by a labour aristocracy that was often pro-imperialist. It was not easy to push a double agenda – for the rights of the European workers and for the workers and peasants in the colonies. No such difficulty lay in the colonies – from Indo-China to the Gold Coast of Africa. But other difficulties haunted communists in the colonies. They found it difficult to create a precise framework to work with the bourgeois nationalists who also hated colonial rule but who had no problem with capitalism. These contradictions dampened the work of the Comintern. Nonetheless, it was through the Comintern that trade unionists and revolutionary nationalists from one end of the world found out about the work of their peers on the other side. The infrastructure of global communism was created by the Comintern activists, who travelled from one end of China to the other end of Mexico to meet with socialists, anarchists, syndicalists, rebels of all kinds to urge them towards unity with the Communist movement.

Papers such as The Negro Worker allowed unionists across the continents to keep up with each other and to experience the unity that allowed them to magnify their work. The Trinidadian Marxist intellectual C.L.R. James observed the work of his Trinidadian friend George Padmore, head of the International Trade Union Committee of Negro Workers. ‘It must be remembered that men in Mombasa, in Lagos, in Fyzabad, in Port-au-Prince, in Dakar, struggling to establish a trade union or political organization, most often under illegal conditions and under heavy persecution, read and followed with exceptional concern the directives which came from the revered and trusted centre in Moscow’, James wrote. This ‘trusted centre’ was the Comintern. It provided the necessary organization to help workers from one end of the world to be in touch with others at the other end. Padmore edited The Negro Worker, which gave ‘hundreds of thousands of active Negroes and the millions whom they represented’ access to the world, wrote James. It gave them insight into ‘Communism in theory and the concrete idea of Russia as a great power, which was on the side of the oppressed’. This, James wrote even as he was critical of the USSR, ‘is what The Negro Worker gave to the sweating and struggling thousands in the West Indies, in Nigeria, in South Africa, all over the world’.

Platforms such as Internationale Arbeiterhilfe (Workers’ International Relief – IAH) emerged initially to help draw attention to the struggles inside the USSR with hunger – to enable Europeans mainly raise funds to help prevent famine. But the work of the IAH would eventually widen outwards, building solidarity campaigns from Japan to Mexico, from Argentina to Australia. The IAH worked from Germany, but turned its energy outwards towards the ‘oppressed and exploited’ peoples of the world. It enabled communists and their allies to forge connections across continents and deepened the relations of radicals within their own countries. It allowed words like ‘solidarity’ to take on a tangible meaning. This would not have been possible without the active support of Moscow.

From one end of the planet to the other, Comintern agents such as Mikhail Borodin carried instructions and methods, wondering how best to help along the revolutions. Alongside them were men and women of the colonies who came to Moscow, studied revolutionary theory and then found their way back home to build communist parties against all odds. These people led colourful lives, dangerous lives, going from factory gate to printer’s shop, from prison to exile. Their journeys were unpredictable – the Indian revolutionary M.N. Roy becomes a founder of the Mexican Communist Party, while the Chilean socialist Luis Emilio Recabarren becomes a founder of the Argentinian Communist Party. Dada Amir Haidar Khan (1900-89) leaves his remote village in Rawalpindi for the merchant marine, becomes an activist of the American Communist Party and then goes to the USSR to train at the University of the Toilers of the East, which sends him to India. Yusuf Salman Yusuf (1901-49) – known as Fahd – met a Comintern agent Piotr Vasili who helps him go to the University of the Toilers of the East, which sends him back to Iraq after a sojourn in Europe. Tan Malaka (1897-1949), who leaves the Dutch East Indies to study in Holland, returns to become a popular educator and communist, finds himself in exile and then in Moscow for the Fourth World Congress of the Comintern. Hồ Chí Minh (1890-1969), meanwhile, works on the ships and the hotels in France, the United States and on the Atlantic Ocean. He becomes a founder of the French Communist Party, goes to the USSR to study at the University of the Toilers of the East and then returns to Indo-China to lead his country to revolution. Each of them was born close to 1900 and each lead a colourful life, marked by the October Revolution which occurred in their teens. These were the people who lived along the circuits of the Comintern, for whom the USSR was a crucial node to develop their own ideas and to build their own revolutionary theories and networks.

Red Star Over the Third World, Vijay Prashad, 2019

[blackjackkent]

After picking up the last umbral gem, Shadowheart got an inspiration and some very excited dialogue: "That's the last one! The inner sanctum is within reach now!"

And a soft whisper from the sacrificial bowl of blood as we went out: "You have triumphed at every turn. Seek out my inner sanctum - the final test awaits."

So uh. I guess it's time to find out whether Shadowheart is going to have to sacrifice Hector to Shar or something. Back we go up to the main level to get on the traversal platform.

Also a rat tried to bite Hector, completely unprovoked:

OK, let's do this thing.

Riding the now-enabled platform down, we arrive at what is, presumably, the inner sanctum.

This altar requires three umbral gems, which is exactly what we have left over after activating the previous platform. And after placing all the gems in place...

There it is. The inner sanctum of the gauntlet of Shar.

-------

"At this rate," Hector mumbles to Karlach in an undertone, "I'm going to get smited by a moonbeam as soon as we get out of here."

"If Selune's any god half worth worshipping," Karlach mutters back, "she knows you're helpin' your friend. And that's worth plenty."

"I hope you're right."

-------

Once again I'm letting Shadowheart take the lead here since she is the only one actually comfortable with this situation.

"This must be where initiates undertook their final preparations," she says excitedly as we approach a platform with a waypoint labeled "Verge of the Shadows" on it. "The end is near!"

A voice - the soft voice that has followed them through all the trials, which Hector can only assume is Shar herself - echoes her. "The end draws near. You show great potential - do not falter now. One more test awaits. Descend to the Nightsong. Make a sacrifice. Rise again a Dark Justiciar."

"Almost there," Shadowheart whispers, her voice trembling with righteous energy. "I will not fail you, my lady!"

-----

"Shadowheart..." Hector hesitates, looks at her worriedly. "Are you sure you want to do this?"

"Of course," she snaps back. "I told you. I have wished for this all my life - to stand at the Lady's side and be her sword."

"And the sacrifice?"

A moment's hesitation, quickly covered. "I told you - I am sure the days of a human sacrifice are long past. It is no doubt some monster that must be slain."

He looks at her steadily. "If you are certain, I stand with you."

A long pause. "I know. And I know what it costs you, Hector," she admits quietly. "Thank you."

[vanillabunnymilk]

The Dark Side of Gaming: Why Female Players Can't Catch a Break from Toxic Masculinity

As the popularity of online gaming continues to soar, so does the prevalence of toxic behavior among its male players. Specifically, the community has become a breeding ground for toxic masculinity, where women are often subjected to harassment, sexism, and objectification.

But it's not just the toxicity that's the problem – it's also the way men in the gaming community view and interact with women. Many female players have reported that it's nearly impossible to maintain genuine friendships with male players, as their advances are always laced with ulterior motives. In fact, it seems like men are more interested in "winning" women over than actually building meaningful relationships with them.

One female player, who wished to remain anonymous, shared her horror story: "I joined an Overwatch team with a group of guys who seemed cool at first. But soon, they started making inappropriate comments about my appearance and constantly trying to 'flirt' with me. I was like, 'Hey guys, I'm here to play some games, not to be objectified!' But they just didn't get it."

Another player, ToxicTokki, echoed similar sentiments: "I was part of a team with a guy who was really good at the game, but he would constantly make jokes about rape and tell me I was 'lucky" I was on his team. It got to the point where I just didn't want to play with him anymore."

It's not just the players themselves who are the problem – the community at large seems to enable and even encourage this kind of behavior. Online forums and social media groups are filled with threads about "getting a girlfriend" or "scoring points" with female players. It's as if winning over women is seen as some kind of ultimate achievement.

The reality is that female players are often forced to navigate a toxic environment just to enjoy their favorite hobby. They're subjected to constant harassment, catcalls, and condescending attitudes from their male teammates and opponents alike. It's no wonder that many women feel like they can't even show their faces online without being bombarded with unsolicited attention.

But what's even more disturbing is that these behaviors are perpetuated by people in positions of power within the gaming community. Professional players and streamers often use their platforms to make sexist jokes or comments about female gamers, normalizing this kind of behavior and giving it a stamp of approval.

As long as this kind of toxic masculinity continues to thrive in the Gaming community, it's going to be hard for women to feel like they belong. And until we see some real effort from game developers, streamers, and community leaders to address these issues, female players will continue to face an uphill battle in trying to enjoy the game without being harassed or objectified.

It's time for us all to take a step back and remember that gaming is supposed to be fun – for everyone. Let's work together to create a community that values respect, inclusivity, and good old-fashioned sportsmanship.

[madness-combat-confessions]

anon calling out the nasty shit in the fandom, in response to the "what are you talking about lol breh" anon, I think I made my point very clear. the community has a habit of enabling abusers and attacking their victims for them simply because they're big artists and refuse to believe that their favorite artist could do any wrong. I do not understand how that's not clear enough. the entire community also has a habit of being really ableist. I genuinely don't understand what else you want me to say about it. I called out a problem because it needed to be addressed. I'm not gonna list names of people in the fandom to go after or whatever because that's nasty, endorses hate and harassment (which is also another problem in the community, just in general people using their platforms for harm and to attack others,) and the mod running the account doesn't want drama, but considering the og confession has likes, people agree with it. if you're deep enough in this fandom you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. I'm someone who has countless firsthand experiences with the aforementioned problems. this isn't to endorse hate, it's to bring up a problem in hopes that people will go "you're right, we have a problem with this behavior and we should do our best to change it and do better" and in hopes that anyone else affected by the behavior will feel seen by somebody else acknowledging the issue 👍 take it as a general statement, not me vaguing people or whatever

I'm not sure what to say about this myself

But thank you for speaking up about the issues within the fandom.

People should be called out for their bullshit, and held accountable for their actions.

And this fandom has a fair amount of toxic people on it.

Sure every fandom does but still, being silent about the problematic and outright illegal, behaviour of those people ain't good just because "well every fandom has a bad side / '____' fandom is worse" because that doesn't matter what matters is that they're still toxic and should be called out for it.

[onlinereputationindiaseo]

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Every company works towards expanding their customers in order to making higher profits. That said, digital marketing services from digital marketing company in India are primarily helpful for small businesses in expanding their customer base. Moreover, conventional marketing techniques, such as print advertisements or fliers, can be costly and have a narrow audience. On the other hand, digital marketing enables companies to use the internet to connect with potential clients anywhere in the world. Small businesses can greatly increase their audience and customer base by taking advantage of the large number of people who use social media, search engines, and other online platforms on a daily basis.

What are the key cogs of an effective Digital marketing strategy?

It all depends and varies from one industry to another. Moreover, a company can have a different approach towards it digital marketing efforts in comparison to other companies. Also, search engine optimization is one of the best digital marketing techniques offered from affordable digital marketing agency in India. On the other side, optimizing a website for search engines to rank higher on search engine results pages is known as SEO. 

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Your website should be at the top of search results when customers look for goods or services associated with your company. Also, improved rankings make your website more visible and more likely to draw in visitors. Using proper keywords, producing excellent content, and creating back links are all part of SEO via digital marketing company in India. Similarly, small businesses can raise their online visibility, draw in organic traffic, and eventually boost sales by putting SEO strategies into practice.

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The role of social media marketing in today’s world is quite imperative. That said, millions of people use social media sites like Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and LinkedIn every day to interact with content. Small businesses can engage with customers directly, establish brand awareness, and connect with their audience by making a strong online presence on these platforms. Social media marketing entails communicating with followers, sharing interesting content, and updating frequently. On social media, paid advertising can also be very successful. At the same time, Businesses can reach particular demographics, interests, and locations with the help of tailored advertising options offered by social media platforms like Facebook and Instagram. By focusing marketing efforts on the most relevant audience, this targeted approach maximizes return on investment.

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Although many experts quote email marketing as an old horse, it still comes as highly capable of driving your digital marketing efforts. Businesses can send out newsletters, promotions, and updates straight to the inboxes of their customers and potential customers by gathering their email addresses. Also, email marketing fosters relationships with consumers by giving them access to exclusive deals and useful information. It is an affordable method of keeping clients informed and interested in your business. Email marketing via an affordable digital marketing agency in India can be made even more effective by using personalization and segmentation to target particular customer groups with messages that are tailored to their interests and behaviors.

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Content marketing has its role to play in driving your digital marketing efforts even in a small business. Moreover, posts on blogs, articles, videos, infographics, and more can fall under this category. Also, Businesses can become industry experts and gain the audience's trust by offering pertinent and helpful information. Additionally, SEO is enhanced by high-quality content, which increases the website's organic traffic. Small businesses can use content marketing to inform, assist, and resolve customers' issues, which will eventually boost client loyalty and revenue.

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There is no denying that trusted digital marketing agency can certain take your market value to next level. Moreover, small businesses can gain a lot from using best digital marketing services for small businesses. Also, small businesses can reach a wider audience, interact with customers, and increase sales by utilizing SEO, social media marketing, email marketing, content marketing, PPC advertising, analytics, local SEO, influencer marketing, and brand identity development. Having a strong online presence is crucial in the digital age, and digital marketing offers the tools and techniques to do so. Investing in digital marketing services has the potential to greatly accelerate the growth and success of small businesses.

[likedbyuarmyhope]

I’ve been a BTS fan since 2015-2016 (I forget) I’m so thankful I left TWITTER (I refuse to ever call it by it’s new name) 3 years ago (I was thinking of leaving even a year before that) back then you could already see the utter shīt show it was becoming. It started becoming an embarrassment to call myself an Army (not because of BTS but the behavior of the fandom). Tumblr is a relatively smaller platform for the fandom mostly older fans so it was never that bad here. Unfortunately the cesspool Army is finding its way here and fūcking it up now. I’m hoping we can all collectively come together (the ones with actual brain cells and common sense) to get rid of these ašs hats. I’m not about to let them ruin it here too like they have literally EVERY SINGLE PLATFORM there is. Sadly the toxic ones are the loudest and ruin everything. Everything we spent YEARS putting together and requesting has gone up in flames because of them. And like you said they definitely do not care they don’t listen to the members, they don’t read things, they don’t watch actual things with them having serious conversations, it’s all superficial and shallow with them. Pardon my language but they’re all fake as fūck using BTS to just boost their egos to say OMG my group paved the way OMG MY group did this and that. They’re like hipsters (derogatory). I miss the early days those were more peaceful and real and easier to take down all the toxic fans. I feel like when BTS says Army they mean the non-toxic ones especially when they’ve spoken about how the Armies they love are respectful and don’t step over their boundaries and “fans” would know that if they actually paid attention to what the members themselves have said with their own mouths. One of them literally had a whole video on how they should behave and be kind and respectful and they didn’t f——ing listen! So disappointed but not surprised.

honestly yeah. pretty much all of this. like i said there's always been issues with certain factions of armys being bigots, at least ever since i joined the fandom in 2017, but i feel like around 2020-21 when there was a massive influx of new fans (who didn't know anything about kpop or the context surrounding bts's entire history, weren't there for some of the most pivotal moments in bts's career and who only know about what bts experienced in both the korean and western music industries through passed down stories from other people who weren't there) is when it all truly went to shit. since then you really can't escape it and the last few months with the insane backlash to the hybe boycott and really the entire fucking scooter braun situation have exposed the absolute ugliest sides of these people. but there definitely is a not-insignificant number of pre-2020 armys who are like this too, there's a ton of factors that have gone into the enabling of morally reprehensible behavior in this fandom over the years and it would take all day to list them out