#and sam was portrayed as the monster

[ananke-xiii]

Rowena and the thick, bloody umbilical cord between choices and faults.

In a previous post of mine I’ve explored a little bit how Mary and Kelly represent a sort of “missed opportunity” for, respectively, Sam and Jack.

At the beginning of s13 Sam resents the fact that he hasn’t been proactive in seeking to create a relationship with his mother and now that she’s (presumably) gone he doesn’t want to deal with that reality. He had wasted his second chance. Jack, on the other hand, never even had a first opportunity to begin with but, unlike Sam, has experienced a sense of unity with his mother so extreme that one of the first things that he tells Sam is that he was his mother(!!!).

S13 reinforces the Mother-Son symbolism because, after Jack’s birth, a rift is opened in space (apparently not in time?): Kelly stays (dead, rip girl I love you) on one side of it while Mary crosses it and finds herself in Apocalypse World. To make things even more clear, this is no random parallel universe: this is the alternate reality where Mary didn’t deal with Azazel. So mothers and their choices/faults are a central theme in this season. Or, well, more or less.

To complete the mothers’ trimurti or, better, tridevi we’re missing the final mother, the destroyer who is, of course, Rowena. It’s therefore quite apt that Rowena reaches her highest potential this season and even confronts Death. What motivates her in an interesting blend of (missing)love and (lacking)power. Lucifer is as part of her story as Kelly’s and Mary’s. Unlike these two, though, she doesn’t have a son who resurrects her, nor a turned-benefactor cosmic being who offers her resurrection as a gift to her son. Rowena has to resurrect herself. Not once but twice. She is, perhaps, the loneliest character in the whole series.

This is actually quite ironic because, if we look back on previous seasons, her “choice” to kill Oskar, her putative son, was what triggered the whole chain of events (the freeing of Amara first and Lucifer second) that directly link Rowena with Mary and Kelly.

It’s only natural, then, that s13 Rowena keeps representing the reversal of the Mary and Sam/ Kelly and Jack relationships because there is no son who’s looking for her, rather she is the mother who’s looking for her (dead) child. Like Sam, she also needs someone who can access another dimension to bring Crowley back but, unlike him, she’s not successful. Now, ngl, this pisses me off to no end, like of course I can understand the real reasons why Crowley couldn’t be brought back, still I kinda hate how it was narratively framed.

When, in "Funeralia", Rowena says that life is unfair she is right but not in the general, pessimistic sense of the phrase: she's right because in-universe some deaths are more important than others and people get back on board depending on whether or not they're still a role to play for them. Rowena's faith in magic is actually justified because magic is the only thing that can help her. And the tragic thing is that it's also what damns her in the process because it's the only form of power she can have access to. There are no angels or cosmic entities looking out for her. She's just... alone.

So, perhaps, it's not that I necessarily hate how her failure to bring Crowley back is described, I just see it as further proof that Rowena is the best example to show how in Supernatural the game is rigged from the beginning and we didn’t even need an interfering and pervy God to realize it. That's all we've been seeing it since S1. All those infinite, booooring talks about being good/evil or doing good/bad actually mean nothing because, at the end of the day, in this show what really matters is how useful you can be, to whom and why (and this is way less booooring, you learn a lot of interesting things about these characters if you go down this road, it's grim but it's more rewarding).

S13 is also when the final connection between Rowena and the Winchesters, Sam to be more precise, is established which is indicative of the fact that she will inevitably die. Before S13 her story was her own, after “Funeralia” it cannot be extricated from Sam’s. To some degree, it’s quite similar to what happened with Crowley and Dean. What’s more, just like Crowley’s powers and shrewdness are what really carry the plot from s6 to s12, magic and spells (and therefore Rowena’s role in the story) will be the key for many plot points from s13 to s15. But there is a big difference.

Both Crowley and Rowena’s sacrifices are described as heroic but, let’s be honest, only Rowena’s was. Crowley’s demise was a clean-up after his own mess at best. It also proved to be unnecessary. Rowena and that awful MBOL’s egg thingy would have managed to confine Lucifer, like, they actually did it. It was Crowley who perverted the spell for reasons that I personally find OOC. I would’ve liked the Crowley vs Lucifer power struggle but not the way it was done in s12 because it felt very nonsensical to me. As in: I can see you need a reason to keep Lucifer around and this is what you’ve come up with but it’s still quite illogical.

At its hidden and secret core S13 is the season of the “let’s reframe the sons’ stories and blame it on the mothers”. Just like Kelly is blamed for Castiel’s ideal vision of Jack and Mary’s "choice" is established as the most important point in the whole show, Rowena-as-Mother must face the same fate: it was her fault if Crowley, Fergus!, ended the way he ended. It’s a naaaaaaaaaaaaaah for me.

This is what we’re told in “Funeralia”:

Rowena: Oh, but it is. Death has something I want. Sam: What’s that? Rowena: My son. After you told me he was gone, how he died, I had an unexpected reaction. We had our differences, but it’s my fault he went down the path he did. I left him. Dean: We’re talking about Crowley-- demon, King of Hell? Rowena: We’re talking about Fergus-- a man abandoned and loveless, tricked by a demon, died in a gutter. He deserved better from the world. From me.

Now, just to be clear: yes, Rowena had the responsibility to do better; yes, she was the absolute worst; yes, she played no small role in her son’s story. However, I personally don’t like all these negative associations between “worlds” and “mothers” as if every fucking thing in the universe is dependent solely on them. How did we end up here? It’s almost as if absent fathers are, like, not THAT bad after all (and the show, as far as I'm concerned, ultimately approves of and absolves absent fathers). So I’m very suspicious of the way motherhood is portrayed specifically in s13 and Rowena’s attempt at redemption well demonstrates that there is reason to be so.

This dialogue in “Funeralia” confirms my gut feeling:

Sam: You know, what happened with Crowley? That wasn’t your fault. Rowena: He never had a chance. Dean: He made his choices, just like we all do. Look, every one of us has done something that we have to live with, that were trying to make up for. Every one of us. Sam: Even without all that extra juice, you’re still the deadliest witch around [Sam's flattering Rowena. He's gonna ask for her help in 3,2,1...]. Rowena: Flatterer. Sam: Yeah, well, we, um... we may need your help [Here we go!]. To save our family. To… hell, to save the world. Dean: You wanna be redeemed? This would be a pretty big step. Rowena: And do you think I still can be? Dean: Yeah, I do.

I mean, not to be rude, but who the fuck cares if Dean Winchester thinks that Rowena can be redeemed? Like, how is Rowena’s redemption (which is strictly connected to her being a bad mother and not, among other things, a zero-regret murderer, which she also happens to be, for instance) connected to saving the Winchester’s family? Don’t get me wrong, I understand that this is SPN and that Sam and Dean’s problems are Apocalypse-level problems (lol, they really did that, when I say that their story is like a cosmogony maybe I’m not that wrong) but, as I’ve said, I cannot help but notice the similarities between Rowena’s arc this season with Mary’s and Jack’s, i.e. you can be redeemed if you either do something useful for the Winchesters or... realize that it's not your "fault" that your sons suffered terribily because "choosing" to deal with Azazel was actually the right choice... for the world. How come fathers saving the world are framed as heroic while mothers actively creating worlds by making hard choices that benefit the greater good need redemption?

So to sum up: while fathers invade S13’s main storyline as solvers, restorers and fixers, mothers are the bones of the story, they carry its weight and its sins but get little if nothing in return: Kelly stays dead, Mary ends up helping out a world that absolves her of her Original Sin but that’s nevertheless a mess (you can never win lol) and Rowena can’t get her son back (but she can save Sam and Dean's family the world!). Looks good, right? Hurray mommy!

[pretty-weird-ideas]

Episode Seven and White Tears

The trial's allegory is not just a lynching, it is a lynching for a Black person entering a relationship with a respected White man, and proceeding to leave him. It's not a murder case, as seen through the show, there's actually very little emphasis on the murder in the episode in regards to Louis. The emphasis is on his "seduction", his "ungiving nature", and "refusing to give his body". It is a public humiliation and lynching for turning a respected white man down. The crime isn't hurting Lestat, it's hurting his feelings.

Lestat doesn't speak to the audience about the pain of his throat being slit. He speaks of loneliness, the audience chants and jeers about how cheating was justified if Louis isn't putting out. Santiago isn't talking about the murder, he's talking about how much of a sexual deviant Louis is the second he is introduced. The show is telling us what's important to the case, and what language hurt and stuck out to Louis the most. The deciding factor in the eyes of the audience, the story that Sam and Santiago are trying to tell, is that the crime is heinous because Louis turned down Lestat.

The audience isn't mad about the murder, they're mad about Lestat's emotions, they're mad about the betrayal, and they are mad that Louis and Claudia didn't put up with things. The case built against the two of them isn't based on violence, it's based on white tears. Louis isn't called a monster for slitting Lestat's throat, the audience member calls him a monster for turning down Lestat's advances.

The show is clear that the trial isn't really about the murder, it is about Louis not "giving enough" for Lestat. It's about Louis asking Lestat to turn Claudia and literally bargaining his happiness where he literally gets on his knees and says "I'll be happy for you, I will never leave you if you do this for me". It's never been about the murder, it's quite literally just shaming Louis for not "loving a good man who might be abusive".

At the end of the day, the trial as framed and written by Sam is building a case off of Lestat's tears, not actual physical harm.

Like my skin is crawling but also the show is so chilling with how it portrayed the "He's a good man so hold your tongue and endure! Lest you read as ungrateful".

Anyways someone take the laptop from me before this becomes my life.

[deancrowleycas]

Favorite Shots Per Episode ✩ 1.06 Skin (3/3)

cinematography analysis and queer reading under the cut

It's of course very obvious that the shapeshifter is functioning as a mirror to Dean, but I still find it fascinating how this is depicted in the cinematography. Because the director isn't using physical mirrors, despite them being such a popular trope in horror for showing the true self or the mental state or metamorphosis of a character. The only time where you sort of see one is in a foreshadowing shortly after the establishing shot with the side-view mirror (which I absolutely love):

But for the rest? Not really. I always wonder if interpret waaaay too much into certain frames, but I am kind of obsessed with how Dean and Becky are divided by the crime scene tape in this shot. Becky is the victim. Dean, well Dean? He's the monster. Kind of. I think a lot of the reflection in this episode happens through what Dean is not also, and he's are not living the lives of 'normal' people. I love how the directing of the episode shows early on that Dean does not belong to that part of society, just like the shapeshifter.

I mean I obviously am doing a queer reading of that (being queer myself), with the monstrous and othered bodies in media being those that are not conforming to various aspects of white cishet society. But I am going to say - the implication that there is a sort of inherent tragedy to Dean's life, not just a sense of not belonging because of his 'lifestyle' but also the fear of being monstrous enough to destroy other people's bodies and livelihoods? Ugh. It hurts, and it's sadly coming back in anti-queer narratives to this day. But yeah, as I said, Dean is portrayed in a way that is disconnecting him from the rest - also from Sam who is the link to this 'normal' life by knowing Becky and who has kept Dean from 'being himself' by pursuing his own dreams and conforming to the exact society that Dean is not belonging to, letting Dean behind in a position where he's neither free to be himself nor enough to be someone else -, and that is giving him a sameness to the shapeshifter.

Dean has to hide the queer part of himself, in a desperate attempt to be accepted, mirrored by the monster of the week: "So maybe this thing was born human but was different, hideous and hated...until he learned to become someone else."

I think that's why I am also obsessed with these shots. Because both the shapeshifter and the shapeshifter as Dean are getting one, revealing their true self underneath the mask that is this body, a body that is subjected to other people's ideas and is projected on and isn't their own. But also the eyes are mirrors? The body part described as the 'mirror to the soul'. It's a little cliché and on the nose, but I find it way cooler than just working with physical mirrors, you know?

And yeah, when it comes to reflections, of course, we cannot forget this scene:

Which is Dean seeing himself, but more so is actually Dean seeing how he is perceived by others. It's not a depiction of his actual self, it's a depiction of the concept of him. We know this, we know Dean is not the 'bad guy' that is televised nor is it an accurate portrayal of him. But I think that it serves to show the audience how media is a place that can shape ideas and construct norms, and it also serves as a way to remind Dean that this is how he will be reacted to if he dares to 'become' monstrous. If he dared to be like the shapeshifter, the outcast, and put his own being over his responsibility to conform. Despite his brother Sam being allowed the same egoism - but Sam's egoism is striving to conform, he's lawboy@stanford.edu you know, and Dean's egoism is striving to be free, to regain control over his body.

And then we have this shot.

Followed by this shot.

Dean 'killing' this reflection of himself, this part of himself in favor of serving and saving. He's a freak, but he's not just a freak like Sam in that he's currently living the hunter lifestyle and didn't really fit into Stanford. Because - well, he's different than Sam. Queer. He's isolated, alone, born hated like the shapeshifter if he ever lived his true self, yearning to be loved. The shapeshifter literally says it: "All he wants is for someone to love him. He’s like me. You know, everybody needs a little human touch now and then. It’s so hard to be different." I think this episode hits so hard for me because you can see Dean's self-hatred, especially in that last shot, Dean's internal struggles that he hides so well under his hero-esque facade. But also how he is ultimately a loving and caring person, putting everyone's happiness above himself.

I think despite this episode reading like being queer is an inherent tragedy at first glance, it walks a fine line in actually trying to convey quite the opposite. Dean is other, but the other isn't bad. Yes, he does good by suppressing himself, so does that mean he has to act according to others to be happy? I don't think that is what the episode is saying. I think it is more an example of Dean's 'monstrosity' being not the same as the shapeshifter's monstrosity in the end, that despite all the sameness they aren't one. That despite what society depicts him to be, evil and harmful to others, he isn't this mirror image projected onto him. He isn't what was shown on those televisions, or in a wider sense, the media. He isn't what is hunted down by the SWAT team, or in a wider sense, institutions in power. Dean's self IS good. Dean's self IS caring and loving, despite his fear to pursue his own dreams and be free, and it's not coming through his actions of suppressing those desires, but because he ultimately is neither those 'normal' people nor the shapeshifter, but his own truth. So yeah, while I think this episode definitely walks a dangerous path by having Dean continue to live this old life in the end, the cinematography in this episode also functions to reveal how - while horror is a love letter to the monstrous, represents counter-narratives and helps to deconstruct normativity (like in this episode!) - the monstrous is often instrumentalized to suppress and oppress and depict victims as an inherent danger to the established systems of oppression. Dean's true self isn't bad. People are just made to believe that it is.

[incesthemes]

so skin is an episode about being hurt by your loved ones. the allegory is told through the literal torture and murder of girlfriends by a shapeshifter wearing the face of their boyfriends. the psychological aspect is just as important as the physical aspect for this shifter—it's a betrayal, something that will destroy both parties involved and ruin their relationship (if the victim makes it out alive of course).

the shapeshifter takes dean's face: he becomes the boyfriend-murderer, and sam is therefore the girlfriend-victim. it's the first time an episode has itself had an incestuous lining on a thematic level since the pilot (interesting too that the episodes that focus on sam have placed sam and dean in the position of lovers, whereas the dean-focused episodes until now have been more platonic in nature).

throughout the episode, the emotional B story depicts both sam and dean hurting (betraying) the people who trust them. sam, for one, is trying to maintain a relationship with his college friends, but he's lying to them. it also seems like he's not being very communicative with them in the first place, since most of his recent messages are people asking where the hell he even is:

(side note, i love that sam is apparently friends with two people named john and mary. feels weirdly psychosexual)

he hurts rebecca, and zach by proxy, later in the episode by lying to her and contaminating the crime scene. his lying, through the lens of the allegory, is framed as a betrayal of trust—metaphorical abuse and torture.

the shapeshifter also brings up another betrayal: sam leaving for stanford, betraying his brother and stealing his life away by forcing dean into a difficult position where he has to abandon his own dreams so that sam can pursue his.

this is victim blaming. the shifter is hurting people because he thinks they deserve it, because he's the true victim here, because he was shunned from society and treated as a freak. this episode portrays the monster as imprinting on dean, rather than sam or dean imprinting on another character. it's the second time a parallel has been drawn between the monster and one of the brothers, the first being pilot.

the shifter speaks for dean: dean is jealous because sam has friends, a life—and dean is just a freak. the B story of the episode starts with dean telling sam that it's for the best if he cuts his ties with people, and up until this point in the episode dean is portrayed as being unilaterally correct, because sam keeps hurting people as a result of his lying.

but now it's given a different framing. even if what dean has said isn't incorrect, we can see it through a lens of selfishness and jealousy. does dean want sam to give up his life because it's truly for the best? or is it because dean wants what sam has, and he'd rather neither of them have it than watch miserably as sam achieves what he's given up on?

misery loves company.

dean apologizes for what he said at the start of the episode at the end of it, but the shapeshifter dug dean's memories and feelings out from somewhere. because the shifter is imprinting on dean, it's likely that his own experiences are intensifying the secondhand feelings he's receiving from dean, but even if that is the case, there's still something there—it's possible that right now, dean still isn't fully aware of it himself. it's possible that he is and is just trying to bury it.

regardless, we're still getting a rare glimpse into dean's true feelings here, however biased they may be. as dean's fear of abandonment unravels, dean himself is slowly coming undone, and this begins to take on a more prominent part of each episode. the ending scene of phantom traveler, too, is revisited in this same conversation:

if episodes 1-3 are introductory to sam, dean, and john respectively, then episodes 4-6 make an interesting trilogy about dean's fear of abandonment. phantom traveler introduces dean's fears and then reveal a scene at the end where dean perceives john as betraying him. bloody mary, too, includes a scene where dean perceives sam as betraying him by not being open and honest with him about his secret. these events are synthesized in this episode and elaborated on, and the fears that have been underscored through the past two episodes are finally given voice.

anyway, tangent aside, all of this culminates in the blurring of lines between the shapeshifter wearing dean's face and dean himself: there's very little difference between sam's big brother and the monster they're fighting. it helps that they share the same sentiments and anguish toward the world, the same jealousies, the same fears. where does the shifter end and dean begin? how much does the shifter speak for himself, and how much is extrapolated from dean's secondhand feelings?

is dean the real monster in this story?

skin is an episode about being hurt by your loved ones. the shifter takes on the likeness of various women's boyfriends/husbands. there's also an implication toward the episode that the shapeshifter uses this setup to have sex with women he finds attractive:

there is, of course, no real point for the shifter to undergo what appears to be the rather painful process of transforming back into dean after shedding rebecca's skin once he captures sam. except that this episode is about betrayal. the psychological torture is just as important as the physical torture for this shapeshifter. and the shifter finds girls he likes and uses their lovers' faces to destroy them.

dean is the lover. sam is the girl. the lines are clearly drawn here, made stronger by the sheer amount of overlap shared by dean and the shapeshifter. it's important to the shifter that dean is the one who is going to hurt sam, because the connection between sam and dean makes the violence that much more painful.

he says that sam should "appreciate" dean more than he does. it adds to the idea that dean feels "all alone" and that he wants someone to love him. dean's core desire is for family: dean wants his family to love him. he thinks sam doesn't love him, but sam should love him. again sam is blamed for a perceived betrayal, dragging up more and more of the minute details across the last several episodes that point to the emotional distance between them. dean wants those gaps closed, and sam is trying to keep them apart. skin is an episode about being hurt by your loved ones.

just like in the pilot, sam and dean are thrust into overtly romantic positions via the allegorical A story. a monster who has victimized girlfriends is assuming the role of dean and victimizing sam. like in the pilot, the character onto which sam and/or dean imprint is the antagonist, the monster. two lines are crossed in both of these episodes: the boundary between hero and villain, and the boundary between family and incest. doubt is cast on the roles they occupy, and that doubt breeds the gothic anxiety which allows for the nature of sam and dean's relationship, both to each other and to the world, to be questioned.

perhaps then it's only natural that shortly after this episode is where the integral running gag begins and sam and dean start getting mistaken for gay lovers. they stand within the liminal space that separates the acceptable from the taboo, and in doing so they become both, neither, everything all at once: brothers, lovers, boyfriends, girlfriends, tempting and unfaithful and desiring of something they can't have.

sam wants to go home. dean wants someone to love him. in the end, all they have is each other.

(fascinating, i think, how this is the episode where the idea that they're "freaks" is introduced, not only once but twice. very peculiar language)

[applejuiz]

while I am glad that convos around mismag seem to acknowledge the difference between character and player (refreshing after having born witness to Keyleth discourse rip) there is still something off putting to me about the tone of “Erika is doing a great job portraying a horrible annoying monster this season!”

Erika and K are not doing anything different than anyone else at the table. Everyone is playing complex flawed characters and exploring compelling struggles internally and interpersonally. There really isn’t anything about K that’s uniquely unsympathetic or frustrating if you’re paying attention to the story. YMMV with how much you enjoy their character arc compared to the others but that’s a you thing and not something being supported by the narrative or the table.

(ironic and frustrating again as Brennan is playing Evan as equally flawed as K, at least in comparison to Sam and Jammer who’s flaws are manifesting in more subtle ways, but the conversation there is always incredibly sympathetic over the sad boi vibes.)

[nalyra-dreaming]

Hi Nalyra, how are you? I hope you’re having a great day.

I only joined the iwtv fandom after s2 aired and I’m so happy I found it. I am however very confused by the level of Lestat hate though. I understand that 1x05 was a big deal for the fandom. What I don’t understand is how they’re still holding onto that but can ignore everything Armand stands for and has done. The Lestat hate also spills over into downplaying Sam’s performance which is maddening. I should’ve know, I’ve been on this hell site for way too long. The obsession with Armand in this fandom is just so huge (He killed Claudia, brainwashed and emotionally manipulated Louis for 80 years, no?) I don’t mean that I want everyone to hate Armand. I just feel like I missed something joining the fandom so late. (I’m strictly talking show here)

I thought I’d ask your insight cause I love reading your answers and take on things.

Hey nonny,

so... the way I see it, the very long hiatus between s1 and s2 made parts of the fandom believe that Lestat is the "big bad abuser white demon™"... because 1x05 and the "we had to kill Lestat" is what stuck in people's brains, and was left to fester for almost two years. People who doubted the tale were accused of being racists and abuse apologists, people who pointed out that Loumand might not be the big true romance the same.

The official podcast host called Armand "so much more healthy" for Louis, and some people took that for the truth, and not for the opinion of someone (who had also obviously not read the books). They literally ignore what Armand did for decades, choosing to go on and on about the big bad abuser, and "patriarchal domination", as they have been fed by the tale, never ever taking the step back to look at the tale, and that we know that it has been tinkered with, as Assad called it.

Hating Lestat was seen as the morally correct response, and certain people reflected that belief unto other fans, accusing them of what they faulted the fictional characters for.

This need to morally justify liking or watching is relatively recent in fandom and it is extremely futile for the VC and therefore IWTV.

They‘re all terrible and monsters by our standards.

Giving a more nuanced portrait of Lestat as built on the books brought me a lot of hate and accusations on my fics.

Certain parts of the fandom have also convinced themselves that the show is not at all based on the books, despite the show returning to all emotional main points, and the writers and creators posting their tagged books for all to see.

They have convinced themselves that Lestat, the main character of the VC, will not be that, but will be the abuser throughout, portrayed to be the antagonist.

To be honest, I wish them good luck.

You... are coming in to a more complete picture, and S3 will then add more to it still.

And I'm glad for it!

I am glad that the fans coming in after s2 might be more... chill about some things, because some things have already been clarified.

I hope they are.

I‘m glad you enjoy it here 🥰

I would advise to block freely, and to ... keep the long hiatus in mind, and where this came from, maybe. It might be easier to understand.

As it is, and going by the s3 trailer, and what the writers posted, and what has been stated already.... well, they are keeping quite close to the books.

And with that the very thing Rolin Jones has already stated will happen - namely Lestat taking (quote!) “the show hostage“ - and (quote!!) “setting the story straight“.

Sam and Jacob are co-leads after all, the show built on Loustat.

Some people seem to love to forget that.

[winpocalypse]

so i’ve been thinking about the “sam hallucinates dean raping him in the panic room” concept and it just fits their late kripke dynamic so perfectly because we know from the beginning of s4 that sam’s scared of dean being mad at him and you can also see how desperate he is to be good in dean’s eyes (“you’re a monster, sam” “dean, no…don’t say that to me. don’t you say that to me”). some part of him expects that kind of violence from dean (because he knows dean would want to punish him for the whole demon blood thing) so hallucinating noncon really makes sense (also the way his interaction with hallucination!dean is portrayed does give huge rape vibes). but the thing that drives me a bit insane is that hallucination!dean isn’t much different from real!dean, as it’s shown later on. hallucination!dean: “you’re a monster”, real!dean: “it means you’re a monster”; hallucination!dean: “and i tried so hard to pretend that we were brothers. but we’re not even the same species”, real!dean “i’m not even sure if he’s still my brother anymore”. really makes you think….


so going back to the panic room noncon. imagine if sam hallucinated it and then real!dean actually noncons him afterwards. the angst of it all….i’m thinking of a scenario where sam isn’t so lucky and doesn’t manage to escape after castiel lets him out. and maybe dean is the one who finds him instead of bobby….

ooooooooh your mind!

yes, the way hallucination dean and real dean are basically the same lmao like with mary, we can see she's something out of sam's delirious mind, because she does not act that way prior to this

sam believes it (the hallucinations, the voice mail) because it's so plausible for dean to have said those things. so for sam to hallucinate being non conned and then actually happening? that would be everything.

imagine all the things hallucination dean told him or did to him actually happening later. and sam being so aware now that this, this right here, is real life, it's real dean, because it cuts so much deeper

[goawaypleasenowareyoukiddingme]

Venting Into the Void

Tw: Mention of rape, abuse, and Vivziepop.

Vivziepop claims to care about SA survivors but has a soft core rape porn playlist on her Zoophobia account. She defends fetishizing rape with a passion and talks over SA survivor voices. There are many times where consent is not taken seriously in her shows. Verosika raped Moxxie, Stella raped Stolas, Stolas sexually harasses Blitzo, Angel Dust sexually harasses Husk, all for laughs.

Vivziepop doesn't care about rape at all, and yet so many people want to pretend she does. It's sad. Her shows are so popular and you can't escape them. If you go to a convention, fanart of her works are everywhere and cosplayers too. Granted you don't have to like Viv to like her works but honestly, her shows aren't that great to begin with. The writing is inconsistent. It treats the audience like they're toddlers by telling and not showing.

And yet despite being capable of bashing a topic like "Charlie has Daddy issues" non stop with other characters saying it rather than showing it. There will scenes that require much more information, nuance, and care like the Loser Baby song. A song that fails to convey the message she tries to portray. It also sucks that Joel Perez sees no issue with people romanticizing the relationship between Angel and Valentino.

He will tell people critical of this to go watch Bluey rather than actually using empathy and critical thinking skills. On the plus side it seems Alex can understand valid critique of the show, as he was alright signing a critical video with Limus. Good on him. I'm glad despite Vivziepop clearly being an abusive person, that Alex will do as he pleases.

It's sad when people like Salem, Michael, and other employees get abused by her, and in Michael's case silenced. I hope that Vivziepop's victims get to live good lives. I just really wish more people could open their eyes and see that Vivziepop isn't a good person, that she doesn't deserve support. She's a privileged ritch woman that gets everything handed to her.

She doesn't need to be coddled, she already has enough yes men surrounding her. She'll never grow as a person for this exact reason. She throws away anyone who's even slightly criticizes her and keeps people who blindly agree with her. Also people still call her work independent but it's not anymore. Hazbin is a part of A24 and Amazon Prime. And Helluva has animation outsourced.

Independent animation has lee way for lower pay because it comes out of the creator's pockets typically. But Vivziepop doesn't have an excuse. She can pay her employees much more. She's seen on Instagram constantly taking vacations and splurging her money at restaurants. She actively chooses to not pay more. I can't escape Vivziepop related stuff in real life in convention situations and I can't escape it on the internet either.

Many artists that I genuinely like draw fan art of her shows. And I can't just unfollow every artist that makes that content as some of them are my friends and it seems like almost every single artist is doing it anyhow. I'd be following significantly less people if I were to stop following people who make Vivziepop work fan art.

I wish I could stop seeing related works to her on my timeline, it drives me crazy. Also Sam wrote that Valentino could be redeemed in season 2 so that only furthers the fact that Vivziepop truly doesn't give a fuck about representing rape in a caring way. Given that Vivziepop has drawn pedo, zoo, and other gross artworks, I wouldn't be surprised if she had committed some kind of crime herself.

It doesn't help her case when she promotes real animal abuse in Japan and is a pro-shipper. I saw someone say she's just a quirky millennial and harmless but she's anything but that. She hurts real people with her actions, she's kind of a monster.

Danm this was long but I just needed to anonymously get this off my chest. Sorry if there's any spelling or grammatical errors in this, it's just a vent not a professional article.

[deerainy]

people say that Sam and Dean's codependence is toxic and on some level I agree but... y'all realise that siblings aren't meant to live together after some time? it hurts but it's true, siblings can't live together forever, eventually you get older and make your own family but Sam and Dean couldn't have that... all they had was each other, they couldn't marry someone or have children, they couldn't have close friends or else they would all die, family was a luxury that they didn't have because they gave up their lives to save the world and yes at times it seems annoying and I've been annoyed multiple times by their sick desire to save each other when you'd think maybe it's time, maybe it's time for one them to die but no it's wrong.. I've thought many times about my own sister while watching the show, comparing our relationship to theirs and truthfully I never liked my sister, not because of her but because of my parents' neglect, I'm the oldest and like Dean I had to take care of my younger sibling, sacrificing myself many times, Dean was lucky to not get bitter about it but I wasn't that fortunate, to me that proves how much of a good person Dean is and if I see anyone bring up the times he's called Sam a monster well I've called my sister worse don't worry, Dean had a right to be upset, he had every damn right to feel like he was suffocating. Dean had no sense of self without his brother and Sam betrayed him many times and I can't blame him either because as an older sister who dreamed of a better life and left her home, basically abandoning my sister like Sam left to Stanford I understand both sides, Sam is right to want something better, like Dean I was the one that my mom didn't understand or like, my sister was always the favourite but instead of staying and proving my mom I was equally good I left and didn't care if I disappointed her and I think of Dean who tried his best to be loved by his father and failed each time even if he was the best, even if he was better than his brother... I wish instead of Sam it would have been Dean who left first, I sometimes wonder how Dean even survived.. Anyways I feel greatly for these boys, I cherish them in my heart because they are the most well portrayed siblings in media in my opinion, they show the worst and best part of having siblings and they have relatable family issues. I'd defend my sister against my own family, I'd choose her before anyone, if she called me right now I'd get on a plane to go back home, no matter what. People who don't have siblings will never understand the love Sam and Dean shared, it's the love of a best friend mixed with trauma bonding and the comfort of knowing you're not alone in this world and you don't have to go through it alone, that you'll always have someone by your side even if all your friends leave you, you still have your sibling and that's everything. And lastly would I die and k!ll for my sister? yes no hesitation, so for any creep wincestie reading this, Sam and Dean aren't more than siblings, they're just trauma bonded and dependent on each other because they had no one else!! it's not anything more than it is... thank you for reading

[hexedwinchester]

What's your favourite episode?

hi tough question noni!!

I'm assuming you mean SPN (because I do Walker reviews too)

i love quite a few episodes for different reasons but if there's one episode that I can watch anytime and I've it saved in my phone like a rainy day stash it's S04E21 When The Levee Breaks.

Why? Because it's Sam centric and purely focuses on his psyche. I love his interactions with his hallucinations, it's so distinct, isn't it? He is scared around Alastair but gives a tough talk to Young Sam. He is hurt and vulnerable around Mary and appears shattered around Dean.

Massive kudos to Jared Padalecki for beautifully portraying all of this and an addict on withdrawal: the shakes, the tired eyes, the conscious swallows and his magical ability to make himself appear small and vulnerable. Like damn, this man !

And you know what's the banger? Despite Dean letting him rot away into his detox, when he catches upto Sam, Sam is still willing to forgive him. He asks his brother to join him and Ruby to kill Lilith. He wants his brother by his side but Dean denies because of Ruby and calls him a monster to his face. I love Sam's tolerance here, he is so patient until the last straw and then it's over. After everything that Dean out him through, he was still willing to forgive Dean who didn't deserve it btw, but finally stops putting up with his bullshit.

And you? What's your episode and why? 😊

Thanks for this ask! 🤗

[headcanonforthought]

SPN headcanon thing?

When Sam & Dean are in "supernatural is a show, portrayed by Jensen and Jared" universe, they discover the Spn show gifs. And really like using them. So when they go back to there universe there bummed to loose them. So they spend weeks making gifs of there own, for specific situations so they can't text each other with them.

Think;

Sam crying, Dean screaming Sam's name, the boys standing in a salt circle, Dean being thrown by a monster, Sam being thrown by a monster, Summoning a demon, Loading a shotgun, Sam running, Dean running, Bobby shaking his head no, Crowley flipping the camera off, Cas looking confused.

And so on, and so forth.

[angel-above-time]

I find it inherently weird that Dean was portrayed as good, and Sam was portrayed as bad. Sam never intentionally hurt people. Dean intentionally hurt people. Sam lives to protect and guide others. Dean lives to protect himself. I mean, yes, Dean also saves lives, but he does it to prove something inside himself, like he needs to be good. While being good comes so naturally to Sam. I don't really understand how Sam would be lucifers perfect vessel. He lived his whole life devoted to saving people and even saving monsters. It doesn't add up to me.

[erika111111]

What mental illness does Josh really have?

On my first several play-throughs/watch-throughs, I thought that he was schizophrenic. But eventually I found the psychiatric report during Sam's section and it gives some interesting information.

So Josh is given antidepressants (Phenelzine during his treatment with Dr. Hill). Antidepressants can actually be used for schizophrenia in some cases, but what's interesting is the withdrawal side effects. Chris states "he's definitely off his meds" and "he's sick." So it's pretty obvious he hasn't been taking his medication lately. So let's take a look at some of the withdrawal side effects.

Hallucinations - I think this is the most prominent one, and also a strong indicator for him being schizophrenic. But the withdrawal side effects from his antidepressants also give him hallucinations as well. I don't think I really need to explain this one much, the entire sequence where he sees Hannah and Beth and also the Dr. Hill sequences are obviously hallucinations.

Paranoia - This is pretty similar to the above and I think they both go hand in hand.

Aggressiveness - I think the best example of this would be when he punches Ashley, as they make a specific point out of it. "You punched Ashley, you piece of shit!" "I got... so mad!" It was literally like Josh couldn't control himself.

Slurred speech - A lot of people point out that Josh talks very slowly and slurred sometimes. Now, we never see what he sounds/talks like before he's off his meds, so it potentially could have been the same, but I think it's worth pointing out regardless.

Ataxia - A common symptom of ataxia is a lack of coordination and unbalanced movement. Josh walks with a limp; a lot of people notice this during the Psycho/Sam chase scene.

So this is all very interesting and something to take into consideration. The fanbase seems to accept Josh being schizophrenic as a fact, including me for a while, but this could prove otherwise. Of course, there's no definitive proof either way. He could be schizophrenic given the wrong medication. He could be depressed and suffering from horrible withdrawals. It's never stated specifically, but again, I think it's worth pointing out that a lot of the withdrawal symptoms are what Josh is going through in the game.

Honestly, I think both schizophrenia and medication withdrawals are important to portray in media, so I'm happy either way. I have several family members with schizophrenia and was even the caretaker for one of them at one point. It disgusts me that there's such a stigma around schizophrenia and people view anyone with this condition as a monster. So I like that, if Josh is schizophrenic, he can be portrayed in a sympathetic light. On the other hand, I've personally dealt with antidepressant withdrawals. Despite being on meds that were supposed to help my depression, I was still so insanely depressed and I just stopped taking them because I felt like they weren't helping me enough anyway. I don't think these feelings and actions are portrayed enough in media at all, so I'd like some representation of that as well.

I feel like I'll get some negative pushback for this post, but in no way is this supposed to be negative. It's literally just supposed to be informative and also, for me, it's a win-win because I have a personal connection to both options. And I'm sick and tired of ableism and it's nice to see some good representation either way.

[luna-rainbow]

I've been reading through the posts and anons regarding Bucky's characterisation in FATWS and I couldn't agree more with your responses.

I think the deep dives and theories from some of the anons on how the writing for Bucky could be spun if we really wanted to are interesting and well intentioned but when I look at what was actually presented, I finished FATWS feeling like I was supposed to view Bucky as a reformed villain who was looking for redemption and that I was supposed to root for him now that he was on the right path and making choices to atone for his sins and make right for his life of crime ---and, considering Bucky was a victim, that did not sit right with me at all. I find it hard to believe that someone could have watched Bucky's story from the beginning and not rooted for him the whole way through.

I actually found the attempts to villainise him a disgusting narrative choice.

This was not an arc about a victim healing, it was an arc about an assassin looking for redemption.

So I think that even if the attempt was to show the shadiness of the government or to portray it as Bucky's misplaced guilt being the driving force, it ultimately doesn't matter because that's not how the narrative presented it. Bucky makes a lot of statements that signify his own feelings of guilt and low sense of self worth 'the power I gave her' 'I know crazy because I am crazy' the conversation he has with Sam about why he has to be the one to talk to Zemo--and none of these statements are shot down, not even by Sam who is supposed to be our hero and experienced PTSD therapist. In fact, Sam even encourages Bucky's negative self image at points with lines like 'even him, and he's killed everyone he's ever met' (which is why I'll also argue that Sam is mischaracterised in this show too)

That's because the narrative wants us to take Bucky's guilt at face value, they want us to see this as a matter fact and something that Bucky has to redeem himself from in order to reach his goal of feeling worthy and human again. They want Bucky's guilt to be a point both he and the audience agree on.

While the narrative leaves space for us to counter its perception of Bucky and his level (or lack) of responsibility for things that The Winter Soldier did--it does nothing to counter its own assumption that Bucky should be considered complicit in the things he was forced to do by Hydra.

We are told some form of this by everyone from Zemo to Sharon to Karli to Raynor to Isaiah to even Sam.

Even when Bucky finally breaks and openly admits that he's beginning to question Steve's faith in him, there is no response to counter his lack of self belief. Neither Sam nor Raynor argue the matter.

During the one moment that the writing could have explicitly made it clear that the narrative viewed Bucky as a victim of Hydra instead of the villian he believes himself to be, we got blank space instead. They could have expanded on the scene between him and Yori and used the father of one of The Winter Soldier's targets to make the point that Bucky was a victim too but instead, we got the implication that Yori was yet another person seeing him as the same monster that Bucky believes himself to be.

So when we take the writing as it actually is, we are left with Bucky believing he is responsible for the crimes that Hydra committed using The Winter Soldier. We are left with no one countering his belief, we are in fact left with both our protagonists and antagonists equally reinforcing Bucky's guilt and self-portrayal as a reforming villain and we are left with Bucky learning that he has to pay for what 'he' did by living in service of those 'he' hurt.

That is what the narrative tells us about Bucky Barnes in FATWS. That is what the character of Bucky Barnes tells us in FATWS, that is what the other characters tell us about Bucky Barnes in FATWS--and we have nothing within the narrative of FATWS that leads us to believe otherwise.

Hello lovely! I'm not sure how I missed this post although I did have a lot of personal stuff going on a few months ago and maybe I shelved it for a time I could reply properly, so apologies for the delay!

All excellent points up there.

Back during the height of the TFATWS discourse (mostly stemming from the fact that several of us were trying to write fix-its and just couldn't make the canon make sense), one of the key points of contention was between fans who felt the narrative fell short in addressing Bucky's lack of agency and therefore lack of liability for the Winter Soldier's crimes, vs other fans who felt Steve's one line in CACW "it wasn't your fault" was enough and hence his lack of agency did not need to be raised again in TFATWS.

But you are absolutely right. The narrative frames Bucky as guilty and volatile, and it does nothing to dispose the viewers otherwise. None of the characters treat him in a way that suggests any empathy for his status as a prisoner of war, only something bordering on derision that he's been spared punishment.

Which, I think, accurately reflects how most of the MCU writers have spoken of him.

[penelope-kat]

So I'm a little dissatisfied with the ending of F&C (btw totally fine to disagree, this is just my opinion. Also it's just a show ok let's all be mature here).

Let me be clear: I don't hate the ending; I think the rest of the show is amazing, AND while I LOVE the message of Simon and Betty moving on from each other and being able to be ok without each other, it felt really disingenuous for the show to say that Betty was more obsessed with Simon when they're clearly both complete freaks for each other?

Simon's whole thing in the original show whenever he was lucid was about how much he missed Betty, how fixated he was on her, and how he'd do anything to get her back, or at least be able to talk to her one more time. Marceline is always talking about how Simon was constantly obsessed with finding Betty again when she was little, and Ice King's whole character and obsession with kidnapping princesses stemmed from Simon desperately wanting to find Betty again.

All relationships have flaws, but I feel like this wasn't the right flaw to give their relationship. Simon and Betty's relationship was flawed because they were super obsessed with each other, not because Betty was more obsessed with Simon than Simon was with her. I guarantee that Simon would have done all the same shit Betty did if the roles were reversed and Betty had put on the ice crown instead, like I have not a single doubt in my mind.

It also makes Simon look a lot less emotionally intelligent and empathetic, which is like yeah, people don't always see how they hurt their loved ones, but you're really telling me he NEVER ONCE did anything Betty wanted to do? Never?? And Betty is a strong-willed woman, we always see that. She's unhinged. I love her. I feel like Simon would have picked up on her wants, too, especially since they were implied to have been together for a long time given, you know, they've co-written books and explored the world together and all. Simon ADORED Betty, and he's always been shown to be very empathetic and insightful, even at his worst during F&C! I highly doubt after all that time with Betty he would have never even considered doing her stuff. Do you really think Mr Semen Peggtricock over here, the final-boss of pathetic submissive twinks, took the reins on every aspect of anything they did together? I know that man gets his bussy destroyed three nights a week by Betty's 12 inch strap and whimpers under her weight m'kay there's no WAY he never ever once listened to what she wanted to do.

I do appreciate that the show doesn't make Simon or Betty out to be monsters or bad people or anything, and I do think in the context of Simon and Betty's stories, them going different ways makes the most narrative and thematic sense since their obsession with each other did end up severely negatively-impacting both their lives. Also, it was heavily implied that Betty reincarnated after blowing Simon sending Simon back to Ooo, so she won't be fused with Golb for all eternity in infinite loneliness. Uh that also makes me feel way better about the ending too lol.

But the specific point of "Simon didn't appreciate Betty enough".. it just doesn't sit right. That man spent collective decades mourning the loss of Betty, his princess, and all he really wanted was to be with her. He understood how brilliant she was, he loved her for it. Yes, he almost gave up her sacrifice that made him Simon again, but can you really blame him for that? He was super depressed and genuinely believed it would be the best thing to do in order to protect the little gay people in his head. He wasn't doing it to punish Betty, he'd never do that. Tbf I haven't seen many people claim he did it to punish Betty, I can just see that being a reachable conclusion for someone watching who already wasn't too keen on how their relationship had been portrayed thus far.

Betty was right: they did make their choices. And that means her choices too, choices that she literally took ownership of in the same breath, so it's weird for the show to imply only she would have gone to the lengths she did in their relationship.

Honestly the topic of overcoming obsession makes perfect sense to explore for BOTH of them. Betty having had time to think about it for 12 years as a chaos god, and Simon still being hung up because he blames himself for everything that happened. They were both equally obsessed with each other, and that mutual obsession destroyed both their lives. Now they need to be able to move on and, in Simon's case, keep living, even though Betty isn't around anymore, because his life as Simon Petrikov MATTERS.

Also before anyone brings up Temple of Mars that episode SLAPS it's GREAT and yes it is about Betty's obsession with Simon, but I always found it to be more of a "wow things became so screwed up. It's a shame Betty didn't go on her trip but the happiness she had with Simon was clearly worth it to her, it's just crazy how something like her missing a trip to be with him evolved into her time traveling into the future and losing her mind trying to save him". It wasn't really an episode about how bad Simon was for her in the beginning, it was like "holy shit girlie we need to get you on mood stabilizers ASAP cuz this shit is CRAZY".

Yeah I dunno how to wrap this up. Didn't mean to make anyone upset: I'm still shaky about how I feel on all of this and just wanted to get my thoughts out there. Opinions are valid! Even if you don't agree, I hope you can see where I'm coming from :)

Have a good night!

[nalyra-dreaming]

Hi,

I just finished TVL for the first time and I'm so enamoured. Lestat is just so much in the best way. But what a mess of trauma his early life, both human and vampiric, was. Magnus when I catch you.. His relationship with Nicki is so beautiful and ultimately heartbreaking. There is so much love there but it's hard for two people both struggling with different kinds of mental illness to be able to help each other. Gabrielle is incredible. I can't wait to see her portrayed next season. And oh my god Armand. Armand Armand Armand. I love him. I'm looking forward to seeing Assad do those scenes with Sam. I love Lestat and Armand together. I love their antagonism as well their immediate attraction and strange love. Part of me wishes that I could see what a love story of theirs could look like. I struggled getting through Marius's chapter just because it got a little dry but omg Lestat waking up Akasha was just peak Brat Prince behavior. Ofc the brief rehash of Interview confirmed some things for me especially about Claudia and Louis. And finally the reunion had me in tears and then laughing at the "You will *lose* that sweater and those pants" line. And of course the ending was just devastating. Anyway there is so much here. I really feel like it needs 2 seasons or 1 long one. And reading it, I really hope that they get Lestat's voice right because one thing I noticed about his narration is how so much of the time his words are dripping with love and empathy. It makes him a particularly fascinating monster because he is definitely a monster. I hope that they hit that note. I'm curious to see who they will pick for Akasha too but I haven't read QotD yet to have an opinion. Have high hopes and expectations now for Season 3. Ah and one more thing I need for sure is animal lover Lestat with his mastiffs and the horses in the stable. God there is so much I want them to adapt. The Witches Place and Wolves and Lestat offering to cut Gabrielle's hair. Do you have any scenes that you are dying to see?

Ahhhhh, I really cannot really narrow it down??? :))) I so hope that we will get to see his dogs!! and the Witches Place, yes.

Personally the wolves feel like a "must" for me, as well as the inn and the "golden moment". And the dark moment, after. I would also love to see the Notre Dame scene with Armand, and of course we need Akasha stepping on Nicolas' violin :)))

Ahhhh, so many defining moments coming up, and moments that have been hinted at already^^ I cannot wait to see how they do it. The first time we've seen it on screen!!! Ever! It's been 40 friggin' years, it's about time.

And geez, can you imagine Gabrielle going after "new clothes", and hers and Armand's relationship?????? Ahhhhhhh, I'm shivering just thinking about it. Gimme :)))))))))