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practicalgauntlet · 17 hours ago

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"I don't want to leave you."

Your POV

Synopsis- Sacrifice one of your characters who doesn't want to die and watch them beg to live.

Category- Heavy angst

Notes- I'm writing a full-length fic for Ao3 and experiencing major writer's block, so here's a prompt I stole from Pinterest. This will be a two-part story but there will be no happy ending so don't ask (I have a plan for how I want this written) I will write the fluffiest story I can to make up for it though. Stay tuned.

Warnings- Heavy angst, character death, conon typical gore and violence, no happy ending, I'm feeling very evil today, kidnapping, grief, murder, mentions of torture but no description, established relationship, flashbacks to make all this bearable. Poorly written medical scenes.

Word count- 2,883

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Denial-

You were blindfolded, gagged, and bound in the back of a rattling van. As far as you could tell there were only two people beside you. One driving the van down a winding, bumpy road, and the other in the back with you- holding a gun to your forehead.

How could you have been that stupid?

How could you have let your guard down during a chase?

You were trained better than that.

The team had split up to cover more ground, two members in each direction. You were teamed up with Morgan, much to Spencer's chagrin. Ever since the wedding, he didn't like to be apart from you. But you had spotted a light shining off in the distance, its beam bouncing as if the owner was running. Stupidly, you charged for it, ignoring Morgan's call after you.

It wasn't until a bag was pulled over your head that you realized it was a trap. One that would pull you at least forty-five minutes away from the team.

The van jolted, bouncing up and down as if the road were littered with large rocks and potholes. Maybe it was, you had no idea where you were.

"Why can't we just shoot her? She's a cop."

Your gun-wielding captor murmured, pressing the barrel of the weapon harder against your head. Your heart was pounding but you refused to say anything, refused to give them anything they were looking for.

"Because, jackass, we need 'er. We could hold 'er ransom, she's obviously important. Did you see that one guy lookin' for 'er? I was scared he was goin' to start crashin' out."

"Ugh," The man in front of you presses the gun harder before pulling it away entirely. "Fine."

If your team was going to find you, you were going to have to do your part and get away. Leaving a trail was your best bet. Draw their attention to where you are heading if you can't get out. They were going to find you.

So, with a controlled deep breath, you kick your foot out to the man closest to you. Pride and energy exploded through you as soon as you heard that tale-tell sound of a gun clattering across the floor.

"What the fuck-"

You had managed to get both the gag and the blindfold off, your eyes adjusting to the brightness of the sun streaming in through the windshield and windows. You didn't let it deter you. Quickly you strike, kicking the man once again as you struggle unbinding your hands.

The van swerves and you lose your balance, falling to the ground and landing in a heap of twisted limbs. You didn't have enough time to react as the man towering above you brought the butt of the gun across your skull.

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Anger-

The sky was a vibrant blue with no cloud in sight. Spencer fussed over the use of sunscreen. He didn't want the honeymoon to be ruined over something as preventable as a bad sunburn. You let him dote over you, his wandering hands rubbing the sunscreen over your face and shoulders.

He was so handsome in his thin, white linen shirt and dark slacks, that leather satchel strapped across his chest like always. The two of you were at the beach, the city of Santorini glistening behind you with its bleach-white buildings and cobalt roofs.

When Spencer looked over to you, his sunglasses reflecting the pure joy on your face, he grabbed your hand.

"I'm so excited for forever with you."

"Me too, Spence." - You were tied up to a rusty beam, arms stretched high above your head, toes just barely touching the ground. Your arms ached, your head throbbed, your body was sore. But you still fought, still writhed in place to wear down the rope digging into your skin.

"They'll fucking find you!"

You scream, throat scratchy and ragged. It had been hours since you had been tossed into the basement and unceremoniously tied up. Could it have been more than that? Days? Weeks?

No one answered. Still, you kicked the air, threats echoing into silence. You were literally talking to a brick wall that this point.

"Do whatever you want to me, I'll never talk."

You spit at the ground, ears catching the faintest scrape before the door swung open. Two men and one woman approached. By the looks of it, with her head held high and her confident strut just a few feet in front of the men, she was their leader.

"What the fuck do you want with me, cunt!"

You scream again, energy and anger returned now that you have something organic to yell at. She grabs your face, dagger-sharp nails digging into your cheeks as she squeezes so hard she forces your jaw open.

"Watch your mouth, bitch."

"Make me."

She chuckles darkly, the sound so evil you feel it taint your soul.

"You heard the lady." She snaps her dangerously manicured fingers and the man to your right steps forward. "Make her."

Hours pass and you don't know how much longer you could take their torture. Knives, whips, waterboarding. Anything they could get their hands on, they used. But the lives of your team were at steak. If they weren't already on their way to rescue you.

Blood was lost and skin was ripped. You were kept awake, on the brink of consciousness for so long that you didn't think anything was real anymore. This was supposed to be an easy case, in and out. Spencer promised that he would take you out to dinner; a cute little Greek place that reminded the two of you of the honeymoon.

It was almost like you could see Santorini again. The blinding bright light of the lamp above you twisting and swirling into a midday sun. The sweltering hot heat of the basement bled into the summer air as the two of you walked from one bookstore to the other all the while Spencer rambled on about something you couldn't remember.

The brick walls morphed into the stark white walls of the Air B&B Spencer had rented, with its open windows and stone floors. And soon you were trailing behind Spencer, trying to keep up with his long legs as he pulled you down the cobblestone street.

Your face suddenly stung, your cheek igniting in a powerful blaze that ripped you out of your daydream.

"Wake the fuck up."

You spit in her face and feebly kick at her shins as you continue to dangle. You were too tired to do anything else.

She clicks her tongue at you, smiling a snake's smile.

"Your friends should be here any second. And if they play nice, I might let one of them live."

"You touch-"

Another slap, this time to your other cheek. That fire inside of you, the one that kept you going for however long you'd been there, was slowly dying. You were slowly dying.

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Bargaining-

They had set up a camera. It was an older model that sat on a tripod directly in front of you. On the table to your left sat an old landline; it was on speakerphone. You could hear your team making deal after deal for you, and you could only assume the camera was for them.

"Please..." You whisper, your voice meak. You were so tired, eyes heavy and body numb. You felt like you were floating.

The woman was gone now, her two goons watching you from the table. They refused every deal Hotch made. You don't know why they refused or why they were keeping you here. What did you have that wasn't already offered by your boss?

The man to the left, Dimitri as you learned, grinned an awful smile as he watched you dangle like meat on a hook.

"I'll kill you, you son of a bitch-"

You briefly hear Spencer's voice over speakerphone, the sound like a mirage in the middle of a desolate desert. It pulled you further into the memories that kept you from breaking.

"I love you so much, my darling..."

Dimitri stood, chuckling as you heard a scuffle from the other end of the phone. Spencer was most likely pulled away from the table, kicking and fighting as Morgan took him out of the room.

Your mind was slipping, switching back and forth between fantasy and reality. Soft kisses you could almost feel. The blinding pain in your wrists as the rope rips your skin. His shining smile as you say 'I do'. The throbbing ache all across your body where those fucking monsters continue to cut. The silk sheets sliding against your skin as Spencer kisses down your body.

Finally, Hotch made a deal they seemed interested in. A one-way ticket to dissappear without the threat of the government chasing after them.

"I guess we don't need you no more. It's such a shame, I was just startin' to like ya."

Dimitri raised his gun, the barrel aimed at your temple. It was so close, the bite of the metal against your skin sending adrenaline-filled shivers across your body.

"No, please!" You try, energy coursing through your body as the reality of the situation kicks in.

"Awe, little miss thinks she can plead her way out of this."

The other man, Kyle, joined in. His joy was just as twisted as Dimitri's.

"I don't want to die! You got what you want, please. I have a husband, and a life, and friends!"

You heard somewhere that if you recite your life, your loved ones, and memories, you'd remind them that you were human.

"Boo fuckin' hoo," Kyle mocked as he walked towards the phone and hung up on your team. He moved the camera closer, one last fuck you to the government that failed them.

"You don't understand, please. We got married three- three weeks ago, Penelope’s birthday is next week and I haven't gotten her a present yet. I haven't, I haven't seen my parents all year. Please put the gun down, put it down, please. "

He cocked the gun and squeezed the trigger.

You brace for the pain, the pressure you'd imagine you'd feel. But it didn't come.

"That shit won't work on me, sweetheart. I don't give a shit whether or not you have a litter of ankle biters and plan on meetin' with the president. You're not getting outta this."

"Why?"

"Because I like the look on your face."

Another click. You didn't know if there was even a bullet in the chamber, but every time he pulled the trigger, you flinched.

"This," He drags a meaty finger down your cheek, collecting the tears that were spilling. "Is why."

He licked the tear off his finger, grinning like a madman before pulling the trigger for the sixth time. This was it. Everything happened in slow motion, the release of the gun, the maniacal cackle of the men before you.

Still, you were alive. Still, you were dangling in that basement.

"Please!"

Is all you can say.

"Please stop,"

All other words disappear from your vocabulary.

"Stop, please. I don't wanna die!"

You were rendered a rambling child, begging for a chance to live while they played God with your existence.

Suddenly, you hear an explosion of sound above you. Thundering footsteps, gunshots, falling bodies. They found you.

"I'd say your last words now, mother fucker because you'll never be a free man again."

Dimitri growled in your face. He leaned in real close, his putrid breath fanning across your face.

"And you'll never make it to your one year anniversary."

Boiling, white hot pain spread from your stomach. A knife, its blade twisted in your guts before Dimitri and Kyle are tackled to the ground.

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Depression-

The salty air blew gently across your heated face, the crashing waves like music around you. Spencer pulled you out of the Air B&B after dinner, dragging you down to the beach where he convinced you to a late-night swim.

It was severely out of character for him, but he was just so happy to be married, to be by your side, that he allowed his impulses to rule the night.

The full moon was your only source of light, but you could be blind and still find your way beside him. He was loose and carefree in a way you've never seen him before.

The two of you were waist-deep in water, the tepid waves lapping at your bodies. He held you, one hand in yours and the other on the small of your back, as the two of you rocked to the sound of the ocean.

"I don't think I've ever been this happy before."

He confessed, his face bright. He was looking at you like you were the only girl in the world, and at the moment - with the beach empty - you felt like it.

"Me neither, Spence."

"Please stay with me..."

His voice was different. It was strained, not at all matching the blissful expression on his face. Spencer sounded far away, panicked. All at once, the comfortable warmth of the summer night ocean turned boiling.

Wet, blazing warmth spread across your stomach and leg.

"What?"

"Come, on. Wake up, please. Stay with me."

"I don't want to leave you, Spence."

You were so confused. You weren't going anywhere, not anytime soon. Especially not now.

His face screwed up, his brows drawing in. Tears you didn't notice fell from his lashes as his chin wavered.

"Then stay with me, please."

The night sky disappeared. In its place was a white ceiling. The sound of crashing waves turned into wailing sirens and blunt orders. Spencer's hands around your body turned into the straps of a gurney.

"Spencer?"

You didn't know where he was, your mind still desperately grasping that memory.

"I'm right here, baby. I'm here."

Spencer leaned over you and his worried face was in your vision. He placed his hand on your face, his thumb tracing idle circles into your cheek.

"Where are we?"

Where did the ocean go? You miss it terribly.

"We're on our way to the hospital, darling. You're going to be okay. "

You had the feeling that he was saying that more to himself than to you. But it was comforting nonetheless.

Your eyes felt too heavy, your body too cold. It didn't feel like you were in an ambulance, it felt like you were floating in the ocean, your body suspended in time.

"No, no, no!"

Spencer yelled.

Why was he yelling? You were having such a good time at the beach.

"Baby, please!"

He tapped your cheek, his hands suddenly too warm.

"Calm down, Spence."

Words spilled out of your mouth like molasses, your tongue sticking to the roof of your mouth.

"Were in Greece..."

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Acceptance-

"Scalple."

There was an insistent beeping.

Everything was dark, your body floating in a void that was all too familiar.

Muffled murmurs, a metallic release of air, something wet.

"Baby?"

You turn, and the darkness bled into a soft light. You were in Spencer's apartment, arms and legs tangled with his.

"Yes, my love?"

"I'm going to miss you."

You prop yourself up on your elbow and tuck a piece of hair behind his ear.

"What do you mean, dork? I'm not going anywhere."

Spencer looked so sad.

"What's wrong, Spence?"

He pulled you forward with both hands on your face. Spencer kissed you deeply, his lips moving over yours in a way that had your heart soaring.

When he pulled away, he tucked you under his chin.

"Nothing, just rest."

The sheets were not as soft as your remember, his body not as warm. Something was off. And then it hit you. The van, the torture, the knife.

"I'm dying, aren't I?"

Spencer said nothing, only pulling you closer.

"Did I at least get to say good bye?"

A kiss to your forehead but still no comment.

"Spencer, say something please..."

"The time I spent with you had been the best years of my life."

Oh god.

"Don't say that, baby."

"You'll always be the love of my life. No one will replace you."

"No, Spencer. Stop."

"I'll see you soon, my darling. You better be waiting for me on the other side."

You claw at him, begging him to stop saying such stupid things. But he doesn't respond, only settling further into the bed and holding you as tight as he could.

After a while, you give up and hold onto him as well. You lay there, in his arms, for so long you start to relax.

"I'll wait for you, Spencer. But do me a favor."

He finally looks at you, tears freely flowing down his face.

"Don't subject yourself to a lonely life just because I'm not there. If you meet someone, you meet someone. I just hope they make you happy. That's all I want."

He smoothes his hand down the back of your head.

"Promise me, Spence."

"I promise."

You knew he was lying, but you also knew this wasn't Spencer. It was your subconscious mind preparing you for departure.

You stay in his arms after that, imagining what awaited you on the other side.

#criminal minds #spencer reid #spencer reid x reader #spencer reid x you #no use of y/n #angst no comfort #no happy ending #tw death #major character death #part 1 #angst

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aikoiya · 2 days ago

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Huh! Maybe it's just an American version thing? Though, if so, booo! Not nice Nintendo!

Also, oh my gosh, THANK YOU!! YOU'RE A GODSEND!! I've been losing my ever-loving mind!

Like, the fruit still has some of the most creatively bankrupt names I've ever seen, but at least I have a frame of reference!

And thank you so much for the link!!

Also, yes. Psychonauts is very interesting & a little bit crazy. Though, it also has some really dark stuff, but it mostly only turns up if you explore & go out of your way to find everything & 100% the games (which, to me, is totally worth it). But what I love is that the subtext sort of gives you insight into how the trauma of the characters affected them as individuals. Though, you also get a bit of a similar environmental storytelling experience from games like Persona 4 (with Shadows) & 5 (with Palaces). Both feature this whole “getting a look at one's inner world” sort of thing & I eat that stuff up. Though, you're not always gonna get things told to you explicitly. It's more so something you have to look around the environment. Or, you can watch analyses on YouTube. Always fun to listen to someone else's interpretation of things. Like, it even goes so far as there being a power in the game that can let you literally see how other characters view Razputin & I just find it super cool because almost every single characters, plus numerous animals, each see him in a way that gives you a bit of a hint as to their relationship with him & I love that!

Also, don't listen to Sasha Nein. Those lamps are beautiful & it's just his childhood trauma getting the better of him.

But, I'm not going to go too deep into it because I fear spoilers.

Hmm… Sounds promising. Whatever helps with the worldbuilding.

To be fair, the Door of Time would likely only open the once in order to let Link out, then would shut & be unopenable without the other stones & the song. (I mean, why wouldn't it have an automatic lock mechanism without the keys to opening it present? Similarly, it has to open from the inside, otherwise that's just shit building code.) As such, so long as Ganondorf wasn't literally there at the exact moment that Link was sent back & left through the door, I don't really see too much issue. And, my guess is that the time was specifically chosen because Ganondorf wasn't looking.

I will say that I do sort of view the Master Sword as being fairly important to how Link traveled in OoT, otherwise I don't think it'd be quite such a big deal of him utilizing the sword as a means of travel. This is part of why I hc the Master Sword's handle & the Ocarina of Time as both literally being made of the Timeshift Crystal from SS. Because then it gives a bit of “oh, I see!” To the whole thing. Otherwise, it wouldn't be so important for Link to pull the sword from the pedestal in order to go forward & for him to return it in order to go back. For all we know, it acts as a sort of anchor to bring his consciousness back to him.

So, yeah, I think you've figured out a cohesive means of explaining what went down in OoT that leaves as few wrinkles as I can see! 👍

Now, I can also sort of see the Triforce being somewhat unaffected by time too, but that's mostly because of its role as a representation of the literal creators of Hyrule's reality. So, to me, this means that it likely exists outside of time, at least to a degree.

Thank you! I really enjoy finding plausible explanations to things & I just really can't help but wonder who it was that built the qānat if that is, indeed, what allows that spring to flow?

Same! It would've been so neat to have a Farore centered game & I hope that, if they ever do remake the 2 Oracle games, that they take the chance to also make the third! Though, I think they should go with something like “Oracle of Mysteries” or “Oracle of Runes.” That way, there won't be any confusing it with Oracle of Seasons the way it would be with the commonly hc'd “Oracle of Secrets.”

Really? Hmm… I was thinking that it'd be the building itself, which would also include the restaurant inside of it, but I guess that the brasserie should have its own name, huh?

Let me give it a think… Maybe something with shells or pearls to represent being sort of the “jewel of Lanayru?” Maybe even have the food served in large, cleaned out clamshells? NO!! The shells of Shell Blades! With silver & nautilus shell wine flutes! Oh! I just found a picture of some that are near perfect!!

I think that I'd need to give the stems some pretty designs to spruce them up a bit. Though, nothing too extravagant. Just something pretty, but stylish. Like… Maybe make it look like the shell is being balanced on a spray of water, like from a fountain? Simple, but elegant. Though, they also NEED to have shell wine baskets on a sort of coral base.

Also, a single chandalier made from sea glass, pearl, nacre, & shell.

Anyway, what about la Perle de la Lune Brasserie du Clos or la Perle de Conque Brasserie du Clos? I was looking for a good reason to use moon, but I couldn't find the right place to put clair de lune. But I think this is fine.

Either way, I really like it! Plus, it can also be a reference to the Moon Pearl of LttP.

Thank you! Much appreciated! Always grateful for the gentle linguistic guidance!

Also, I had zero idea, but I now completely refuse to change it from Marée-Chant, because I love that not only did I somehow manage to make a pun, but also one that's super fitting! So, yeah. It is now an intentional pun! :D

True, at the same time, you could possibly try to find ways of spinning the Zelda sightings in a less jocose way. Oooo! I do know of a comic that shows a great way to depict the sort of havoc that the Yiga taking on Zelda's guise probably had on Link! Especially involving their hideout on the Great Plateau!

But it's a long one! Arggg!!

I'll come back with the link to it if I can! It's really good!!

Hmm… For the Hateno Village quests, maybe have Reede mentioning the increase in monster activity alongside the Gloom & the return of the Blood Moons & have him mention how he was keeping the election going in an attempt to try & help keep the citizen’s minds off of things. Possibly insert a bit of an undercurrent of unease that's most visible when no kids are nearby. But even the kids know that SOMETHING'S up, just not quite what, yet. Ya know? Possibly even have it so that Reede is sort of exaggerating his end of the Reede/Cece conflict for that reason. (Which, btw, I'd still keep the whole Cece Hat thing, but have it so Link absolutely roasts her regarding the hair & make-up choice. Like, shame her. Because, good grief Cece!)

Also, you may wanna consider having Reede set up a curfew, that way, you can maybe make the nighttime attack of the Stals on the Sun Pumpkins into a more serious issue. Like, it isn't just the pumpkin patches they're attacking, but the town itself. Possibly have some of the new militia set up at what's left of Fort Hateno to do what they can to curb the bulk of it? (Btw, why is there no Stalynel??? And, can you imagine actual elemental Lynels? And a Staltantula boss in the Depths? That'd not only be so flipping cool, but also complete nightmare fuel!!!)

But, regardless, if it was too peaceful for your tastes, try shifting the tone so that it's more of a strained, maybe even slightly delusional peace? Think about it this way, these people had been tormented by the Calamity for 100 years & only recently did that nightmare end.

It wouldn't be surprising if a lot of the civies tried to keep up a veneer of peace in a vain attempt to try & maintain hold on the fraying edges of that tranquility. (I think I've brought this up as a possibility already, just with Zelda...)

Now a dungeon in Necluda is an idea I can get behind! Love that idea!

Oh, heavens! Yes! Absolutely, same! Like, don't get me wrong. I don't mind strong women or tomboyish girls or maybe 1 or 2 strong women that aren't interested in relationships. But not the absolutely flipping wave of them that we've had lately! And, you know what? Yeah, I'm very similar. It's part of why I made my oc the way I did.

Actually, I'd like to bring up something that someone else mentioned a bit ago! Did you notice the hairstyles & designs of the Gerudo in TotK's past? If you notice, most of them weren't really very feminine. And, this suggests that they probably weren't dressing to “attract the male gaze.” But, (& this is me switching to canonical TotK game talk) if that's the case & the Gerudo had also been in a war with the other denizens of Hyrule before Rauru came like I theorize, then this makes you wonder how they were getting males.

Just something to think about. Like, I know what my theory is, but I'm not so sure how dark you wanna go with their portrayal. Because, trust me, I can go SUPER dark. 😈

I tend to think similar, personally. But, for me, I tend to look at examples where a singular old man defeats an entire professional women's soccer team IRL & think quietly to myself that, despite being much taller than most male Hylians, I actually think that a single well-trained Gerudo vai would only be around as strong as a single well-trained Hylian male. And, she'd likely need to utilize her greater height against him to win. But, once more, that's just me.

As for the Rito, I tend to think that the scales from Valoo was how the Zora were initially transformed & that this new design for them is just how they evolved afterwards. Not in that this is how they evolved after WW, as I know you're not going that route, but more so that maybe something similar happened that required some of the Zora to transform into Rito in your timeline. And then, after that initial transformation, generations pass with the Rito slowly gaining more & more bird-like features alongside the remaining Zora also further evolving.

And, I actually think it's a great opportunity to have the Ancient Sage of Wind, alongside the Ancient Rito being much closer in design to WW Rito, so as to showcase that there was a change. Same with the Ancient Sage of Water & the Ancient Zora being closer to either the OoT or TP designs. Or maybe even have Zelda discover that there were once 2 tribes of Zora with the Zora of the modern day being the descendants of both?

Remember that your gonna be sending the girl at least 10,000 years into the past. Also, something else to play with? The possibility of the Ancient Goron still learning Ancient Hylian, because they had only recently resurfaced from living in Gorondia. So, I’d like to think that they’d be learning the language.

Also, I totally see Zelda frantically creating a sort of underground study with a vault of specimens, including seeds, maybe even have a few smaller critters in containment cells? Ooo!!!

Oh, wait… I forget… You're not doing the Secret Stone thing, are you? If you were, I'd have suggested making it so the Stones just sort of enhance their powers & gives them a specific ability like the ones in the game, but that it doesn't prevent the owners from learning other abilities of a similar nature. So, I guess that what I'm saying is that Zelda could've learned how to use Stasis after lmastering Recall, ya know? Though, if you're having it so that the Sheikah Slate is still a thing, maybe you could make it so that she figures out a way to use the Stasis Rune to make those containment cells. That way, she can sort of… Oh, gosh! I think that I'm essentially creating an entire dungeon! One based on Noah’s Ark! But one that travels the sea of time! XD

What if that's the dungeon in Necluda?! What if it's this massive facility in the Necluda Depths that's essentially a massive museum, library, zoo, & botany vault! That's totally the sort of thing that Zelda would flippin' do!

Anyway, I get what you're getting at with not wanting to make the Gerudo outcasts, but eeeh… I dunno. I guess that I feel like they're outcasts anyway & that it's kinda because of their own choices. Like, just their culture as an all-female race that keeps their daughters seperated from their fathers is going to make them as such.

Though, for me, part of the reason for my depiction of them as being cursed is somewhat so I can have that curse broken eventually. Like, to me, it's really little more than an opportunity that I'm trying to use in order to highlight the fact that they once had even worse practices & that it resulted in karma coming to bite them. However, because of that & their humbling, there's supposed to be a slow progression of their depictions over the timelines being something like a case study in how all cultures, all societies, have black spots & things to be ashamed of. But that it doesn't have to be the end &, in fact, the Gerudo are much much improved. So, there's hope.

You know a sort of race wide redemption arc!

As such, my point in it is, I guess, using it as motivation for the Gerudo to improve as a people.

Also, & I know it was more of a joke on your part, but at the same time, if you do go with the idea that the Sand Goddess made Gerudo voe so that the vai only get something nice to look at every hundred years, then you should probably consider how that would affect the voe, as well as the overall perceptions of the vai towards males in-general because of it. Specifically, imagine it from the perspective of the voe. What if your creator made you to have no real purpose beyond looking nice? Imagine that your entire existence revolved around that alone.

Depressing.

And if this were how it was, then the default preconceptions of the vai would automatically be, "men only exist for the enjoyment/use of women." Like, not even for the sake of reproduction because, again, like you said, they didn't need men to reproduce. So, the voe wouldn't even really have that until after the Sand Goddess was killed. And then, well…

The concenssus would likely have become deeply rooted in their ideologies (case in point, that one OoT Gerudo who mentioned that she thought Ganondorf was the only man worth anything). Then, it might've eventually resulted in a culture of misandristic exploitation not unlike one particular depiction of the Amazons of Greek myth. Possibly even culminating in a few generations where the 1 voe sort of becomes what amounts to a slave king & the designated stud for that specific generation. Likely even acting as a kind of feminist reversal of the orientalist harem trope. (And yes, I am fully aware of how yeesh that sounds. Because it IS.)

Also, there's the question of if the Gerudo were made to never need men & the centennial voe was little more than eye candy, then why the legend saying that he was destined to be king? Why the worship in OoT? Literally, how did he get so bad in OoT, HW, & TotK???

Does the legend refer to a true king or more so a pretty figurehead in a pretty crown? Like, maybe he was instead meant to act as the Gerudo queen's handsome arm-candy? A trophy husband or a sort of proof of her legitimacy as queen? Maybe even it being said that a vehvi produced from 2 Gerudo was thought to be exceptional or usher in some sort of Golden Age for the Gerudo.

I'm not saying don't. Just... maybe be aware of the implications these sorts of choices have & prepare yourself accordingly?

And, this one is more out of personal curiosity than anything: What does this choice say about the Sand Goddess? What did the choice to create the Gerudo as nothing but women with only one male every century, where the vai, rather than mating with men, instead went to the Sand Goddess in order to reproduce: What does it say about her & her intentions?

Why did she decide this? Did she have bad experiences with males that led her to do this, possibly believing that she was sparing her creations from grief? Is she an example of a tragic biggot? In this case, a misandrist who legitimately hates males of any kind, believing that they were the source of all the ills in the world, & wanted to create a species where they were commodities & treated as lesser? (An example of Tragic Bigotry. A very interesting way to make the typical bigotry thing more complicated than just “bigots are just jerks, who cares why?”) Or did she do this so that the Gerudo would be forever reliant upon her?

While it may not seem important, you'd actually be very surprised how it can spawn new ideas to explore the underlying reasoning behind these sorts of decisions.

Heck, if you go the route of the second choice, that could easily end up being an underlying reason to why Ganondorf can almost never seem to escape from his role, because in this case (though she likely wouldn't have meant it as such), it could be due to the Sand Goddess' perception of men becoming the basis for Gerudo voes' nature. In such a situation, Gerudo voe would've been created to be subjugated. Otherwise, they risk becoming too ambitious & devolving into demons. Because it would literally be the subconscious belief of the Sand Goddess, which could’ve bled into her creations without her realizing it.

Now, again, I'm not trying to tell you what to do, but I think it's important to at least acknowledge the thought process.

And, one final thing. I don't know if you brought this up before, but I think it's something that you’ll likely need to keep in mind when characterizing your version of Ganondorf.

Namely, how much of the Calamity did he have control over?

And, I need to really bring this into perspective. This… it was absolutely horrific.

Judging by the population density map, the Calamity resulted in the deaths of upwards of thousands of people.

And that’s no small number. Castle Town was sundered. And 7 entire settlements were destroyed, leaving Central Hyrule completely unpopulated. And Deya was the largest of them, but according to what I’m seeing, literally no one survived Deya.

If that’s the case, then that doesn’t just mean soldiers. It means E.V.E.R.Y.O.N.E…

Like, just take a moment to meditate on exactly how utterly horrible that is.

That means men, women, the elderly, the infirm, children, infants, pregnant mothers. Yes, I know, it's horrible. But, it's also canon.

Like, & I'm really sorry for this, but I really do think that it very much encapsulates my thoughts on what happened in the Calamity. Guilty of Wrath

Warning, it's actually pretty graphic.

Like, for me, I just think that it's really important to really take in the full scope of what happened & to properly characterize the Ganondorf that caused all of it, to ask just how aware he was of it all.

Because, I'm seriously considering making this part of my official canon for Meeting One's Match. (Not the part where Link is dead, but most everything else? Yeah, though I'm thinking of letting Rauru take the place of Link in this. Let him be the petty one to deal the final blow to Ganondorf’s psyche. However, now that I'm thinking about it. I may make him backed up by Sonia & the other Sages, then just before they leave, the Sage of Lightning points behind Ganondorf & he snaps around… Only to be met with a veritable sea of spirits… And he's suddenly forced to acknowledge the sheer amount of death that he caused… Ooohoohoohoo! This reminds me of a REALLY amazing one-shot idea I had! But we can talk about that later!)

Like, in my interpretation of events, I'm sort of making it so that he doesn't really know. As in, he was sealed underground &, I guess, sort of allowed his Miasma to run wild with a mindset of “just break everything. Break all of their toys,” but he never really thought about the full concequences of that choice. Never thought of the implications of his own words in certain scenes or what their logical conclusion would be.

So, in my story, one of the final hurdles that he's going to need to face will, in a way, be himself.

As, I'm sort of going with the idea of how hatred is an insatiable beast that keeps demanding more & the more you feed it the bigger it gets until you suddenly realize that it's taken on a life of its own & you no longer have any control over it. And I guess that I feel like it's important to nail down whether your Ganondorf really knew what he was causing. Like, for me, if he knew & was aware of the full scope of his crimes & was… I dunno… unaffected by it, then I just don't think that having him care about the Gerudo will be realistic. Like, it takes a very specific level of psycho to knowingly commit that sort of just… Horror.

Like, the Calamity was outright a flipping genocide, man. The Guardians weren't stopping. They would've eradicated Hateno too, which would've, at the time, left only Shadow Hamlet, Lurelin, & Tabantha Village. And we don't even know if they would've stopped with Hateno. We don't know if they would've stopped until the only one left alive was Ganondorf himself.

So, I feel like it's kinda important to establish whether your Ganondorf was genocidal in a very literal way. If he was, then I just don't see much hope for him coming across as any degree of sympathetic.

@aikoiya The post was getting long again so here's a new one!

I knew you were going to answer that saying "this is unfair" isn't real life logic haha (and I agree that life hasn't been fair to Sky and Sun anyway). It's just that such an ending would probably leave me feeling unsatisfied and even a bit robbed, and I think it would require a lot of other changes to be made to the story in order for it to work properly. But anyway you're right, as things are now this would just be happening behind the scenes so what I'm saying doesn't really make sense. But just thinking about it changes my perception of SS in a way I don't really enjoy, so it's not a theory I favor.

Yes in that setting I'm pretty sure that the other Sun would not make herself known to Link and Zelda and would let them have their happy ending. But I think Zelda would likely suspect her existence and know that something is wrong. I guess even Link could notice that the Temple's doors are suddenly open and would ask Impa a few questions.

I had no idea Tingle called Farore the Goddess of Wind in WW, so I went on a little quest to see if I could find the same quote in the French version of the game. Apparently it's in Tingle's description of Outset Island and I never had the chance to play with the Tingle Tuner mode. I can't find the same quote in French anywhere and I don't even know if this was included in the HD remake (I guess I'll have to wait for a Switch version to find out… if they ever release one). This has me wondering if this quote isn't something exclusive to the English version, but I can't be sure and I'd like to know what the original Japanese text says. The French wikis mention that Farore is the Goddess of Wind in WW but don't provide any quote, it just looks like the pages were translated from English but that they couldn't find the same quote in French. It's really frustrating!!

Anyway that's a bit weird because WW already establishes Zephos as the God of Wind, and he seems to be a minor deity compared to Farore. The way I see it, wind is just the element that Farore tends to be associated with, and since a lot of myths might have been lost with Hyrule in WW this could just be a mistake on Tingle's part. I mean this is the game that gave us the Golden Triumph Forks haha.

I'm not limiting Nayru/the Golden Goddesses to a singular domain, quite the opposite ^^ To me Nayru being the Goddess of Wisdom includes different concepts such as order, law, science, magic, etc., and even time (since she's introduced as the creator of the world's fondamental laws), while calling her the Goddess of Time doesn't include all of that. That's why I wrote that I found it a bit restrictive. But sure she could have both titles, the same way Farore could be known most commonly as the Goddess of Courage and also called the Goddess of Wind in some situations.

Oh I didn't think of the blocks from OoT! I would say though that they don't really use any time powers, they're just random blocks that appear or disappear for some reason when Link plays the Song of Time (it's just as absurd as playing the Song of Storms to open holes in the ground haha). But yes they were blue and associated with time, and of course Nayru is too. The difference with Hylia in my theory is that Nayru created the rules of time (if that makes sense) among other fundamental laws, while Hylia's power specifically allows her to manipulate time and foresee the future. In a way I see Hylia as Nayru's spiritual daughter who inherited some of her powers over time (and that's why the color purple she's represented with is very close to blue).

The Master Sword has also been depicted as either blue or purple though, so that asks the question of the true color of all of these things! Nayru is definitely linked to time so it makes sense that the timeshift stones are in Lanayru (and Hylia also doesn't have a province named after her).

"From the edge of time" could definitely just be a poetic way to say that Hylia kind of recorded a message for Link before dying haha. But I find it interesting that she would phrase it like that, I like to see it as a clue.

Well if Zelda simply sent Link to a point further back in time, wouldn't there be two Links existing at the same time in the Child Timeline? But sure Zelda creating a brand new timeline also raises a few questions that kind of... make my head hurt. I'm not sure what happens exactly, I've always wondered! All we know is that Link finds himself in the Master Sword's chamber with the Door of Time already open, which hints at things happening in a different way this time (because he definitely doesn't have the three spiritual stones and the Ocarina of Time yet since this is before Ganon's coup, and the ending seems to imply that this timeline's Zelda doesn't know him yet). That's why I believe Zelda might have done something a bit more complex than sending him to a point further back in time, but there's no way to be sure. The Triforce of Courage is also visible on Link's hand during the ending, and we also know thanks to TP that the Triforce is still separated in the Child Timeline despite Link and Zelda preventing Ganon from entering the Sacred Realm this time. So maybe Zelda isn't able to change everything? It's complicated haha.

Anyway, whether OoT Zelda creates a new timeline or just sends Link further back in time, that's still huge time powers and that's not something Link is able to do by playing Zelda's Lullaby.

I also believe it is more likely that Talon inherited the ranch. True, Talon might not always have been so lazy, but maybe if that was the case the game could have hinted at hit. All we know is that he leaves his daughter alone with Ingo and only comes back after Link deals with the situation, which does not make him look so great. And he only promises to work harder after that.

I'm kind of bad with names so I'm impressed you're going through all of that trouble to rename the settlements!!

I haven't gotten to developping the technology that much yet, but I'm really interested in seeing what the different races could do with it! I love the idea of using the Sheikah to infiltrate the Yiga bases. I wish TotK had done something like that and shown the Sheikah helping Link that way.

Same, I was so excited when I heard about these pirates… and then so disappointed to find nothing more than a bunch of bokos with no backstory.

Vignoble is not related to noble (though I kind of make the association in my mind, especially since vignobles are sometimes called châteaux).

Yes I thought you could maybe use clos! Aquaticlos is funny, it can work! Though maybe you could use the same logic as for the raisins (I love this Raisins de Terre idea by the way, it makes sense!) and say that what the Zoras call a clos already refers to something that's underwater, since that's probably the case for most of what they cultivate.

I don't mind helping you with French, I'm glad to do so! You put so much effort and thought into this, it's really interesting.

#zelda #loz #zelda lore #zelda theory #aikoiya #jullbnt

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hadesknockedupintheunderworld · 11 months ago

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"Perception" a Nine Essay

I started writing this back in January to take a break from brainrotting about Netflix posting EP1 of Season 3 to discuss something I had been thinking about again (ever since reviewing the end of season 2 for the umpteenth time).

I'd like to talk about the differences in how characters in Sonic Prime see Nine versus how he actually is. I know this seems like a simple topic, but I think we all do well with a reminder of just how much the characters in the show know with their limited povs (as we the audience can view everything).

I'll be going pretty much character by character (grouping some together to discuss their povs at once), and ending with Sonic and Shadow.

(Note: At the time I wrote most of this, I had planned to have it done before S3 dropped, as I felt that the messages of this essay would be good to put out there before we all inevitably saw Nine as the season antagonist. To keep up with my original intentions, this essay will only go up to what we the audience knew as of S2)

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So let's start with Rebel Rouge and Renegade Knucks. They gather their first impressions of Nine as they witness Sonic and Nine's capture at the hands of the council, although they don't properly meet Nine until they enter the Chaos Council's base.

"Are you sure we were 'best friends'?"

"Blue streak has a friend?"

"Didn't look friendly. But whoever he is, he's involved now."

They haven't yet watched the video a resistance member took of Sonic and Nine's fight, and when they do, we only know for sure that they'll watch clips of Sonic talking about Green Hill. This means that (especially since there are no references during their meeting with Nine that they saw him fight Sonic), them listening in as Nine and Sonic are abducted is baseline their knowledge of Nine before meeting him.

They consider Nine a possible friend of Sonic's as they listen in, but it’s Rebel who mentions that Nine doesn't sound very friendly. This is a fair assessment, given the tone of Nine's voice and Nine's questioning if he and Sonic even were really friends. It's enough to be suspicious of someone's character, especially in a city like this, where choosing the wrong ally in your resistance could likely get you captured, or worse. It's also worth mentioning that first impressions matter with guys like Renegade who (like Knuckles) tend to make judgements of character based on first impressions and gut feelings. He trusts Rebel quite a lot as well, even listening to her judgement when it opposes his own, so it’s not impossible that her initial judgement of Nine as unfriendly starts to inform his assumptions as to Nine's character.

But I digress. If you believe they didn't watch the full video of the Nine/Sonic fight, that small moment is enough for one or both to be suspicious of character or decide they don't like him. If you believe they did watch the full video of the fight, then I'd say that's enough evidence to form even a bit of a negative opinion on Nine and his character (after all, it does showcase Nine fighting the hedgehog they believe could be a sign of hope/an asset to the resistance. It's not too hard to come to the conclusion that Sonic and Nine may have been fighting up until being captured, even if that isn't the truth).

Now, the first meeting.

If they do have bad impressions of Nine before meeting him, Rebel and Renegade don't hold these against him. Rebel only swoops in to save Sonic from the laser and battle the eggforcers (which also allows Nine to escape captivity). As for Renegade, although he arrives after Nine has used the commotion to sneak away to the monitor, forgotten, he also never accuses Nine of any foul play or of only caring about himself. During this scene, Nine frees Sonic, saves Sonic by taking control of Rusty Rose, and ultimately aids in the battle despite fighting.

Now, as for my claim that Renegade doesn't assume Nine as a threat to the resistance or believe him to be a bad guy, let's pinpoint the scene where Nine first talks to him.

"No"

If you rewatch this scene (Season 1 Episode 2), Renegade isn't moving with intent to attack Nine. After punching an eggforcer, he bounds in the direction he's facing. He takes one step, in the direction Nine happens to be in before Nine instinctively points a mechanical tail at him (perhaps assuming that Renegade was moving to sneak up on him?). In addition, Renegade has this surprised look on his face until Nine says his next words.

"Catch up, Echidna. I'm one of the good guys."

Of course, this does no favor to Nine’s image regarding Renegade (especially as this isn't the only moment like this in terms of how Nine talks to Renegade), but it doesn't prove Nine's a bad guy. At worst, it frustrates and annoys Renegade, and if it comes off as some sort of "secret villain red flag" to Renegade, he doesn't keep this moment in the forefront of his mind. After all, he and Rebel both choose to follow Nine's idea of stealing the Chaos Council's energy crystal, and they don't mention or act like they are suspicious of Nine during the fight. This is all to say that, at the current moment, to them Nine may have an attitude, but he's not evil or intending to betray anyone.

An attitude like Nine's during this portion is either something to overlook or a trait tacked onto an indication depending on how any given person sees you. This is to say that at best if someone likes you or believes you to be good, you're "just a little rough around the edges", and if someone dislikes you or believes you to be bad, it's "of course someone bad would have an attitude like this". It's an accessory, not inherently an indication of moral character or intentions. Someone can use it to further implicate him/find more reasons to dislike him later (such as when people talk/post/write about people they think are bad people and start nitpicking their appearance in their reasoning), but for now his attitude isn't enough to make Rebel or Renegade distrust him.

After all, didn't they really think Nine would save them after nabbing the red paradox prism shard?

The shot is a bit hard to get, as they fully smile just before the show cuts back to Nine. This is the best shot of it I have at the moment. Just know that during Rebel's recount of this event in Season 1 Episode 6, Rebel and Renegade visually start to smile when they see Nine return with the shard.

Now that the mission is accomplished, we see that they're just waiting for Nine to rescue them. However, when Nine chooses to leave alone, Rebel and Renegade take it as betrayal.

Renegade is surprised before he turns angry, freeing Rebel, Rusty, himself in his rage. Rebel's expression deepens (as if angry, regretful) and closes her eyes.

These are not the reactions of people who distrusted Nine (or Sonic for that matter) from the start.

This scene pointedly shows us that Rebel, Renegade, and Rusty did not see Sonic disappear into the red shard (the doors shut before they can). Then they watch Nine leave them to their fates, making off with the shard as Sonic is nowhere to be found. It's not about Nine's attitude or unfriendlyness (or, again, Sonic's attitude for that matter. As Sonic *also* made Renegade frustrated the same way Nine did, but by calling everyone by the wrong names). It's the fact that they have every reason to believe Nine AND Sonic used them only to abandon them when they got the shard.

And this is perhaps shown best this interaction between Renegade and Sonic.

"I didn't steal the shard!"

"But your fox friend did."

Sonic had explained what happened to him to Renegade, who explained it to Rebel. Despite this, Rebel still saw him as a backstabber, angry enough to want to leave him at the mercy of the chaos council or turn him "into a handbag". Why?

Well, remember that Renegade and Rebel's first introduction to Nine was Nine bringing his and Sonic's friendship status into question. Whether they believed the two to truly be friends then, they did see the two conversing at the red crystal before Sonic disappeared and Nine left them high and dry. So even if Sonic hadn't purposely left them, I don't think it's a stretch here to say that Rebel and Renegade had assumed the two planned to leave Renegade, Rebel, and Rusty behind. Perhaps Sonic didn't make off with the shard, and perhaps he couldn't help his disappearance, but his partner made off with it.

Rebel and Renegade don't know Sonic, especially not like the audience does. Both with the knowledge they had at hand AND to deal with what was a shocking betrayal to them, Rebel and Renegade considered Nine and Sonic to both be traitors. This is also not to mention that despite Sonic's new testimony of his disappearance and his surprise that Nine would leave Rebel, Rusty, and Renegade to die, he wouldn't give Nine up to them.

Sonic has to try really hard, advocate for himself after a score of disappearances, and help the rebels a number of times for Renegade and Rebel to even consider that he's telling the truth about his helping them.

Likewise, Nine doesn't advocate for himself (or really care to). He swoops in to fight, takes Sonic to disappear again. He swoops in to fight for a bit, and then is captured by the Chaos Council.

And not only do Rebel and Renegade not know he was captured specifically, they did not see it. Earlier, before the battle, they made it clear that the red shard could not fall into the Chaos Council's clutches, or everything would be done for. Renegade even probed Sonic for Nine's location so they could make sure Nine would never give it to the coucil (even despite Sonic's testimony that Nine would never do that). Not only does Nine's capture give the Coucil the red shard, it gives them the secrets to interdimensional travel and makes them more of a threat than before.

This is all to say that, on top of the fact that Nine doesn't try to change their opinion of him as a traitor, as far as they know (influenced by their own biased impressions of him) Nine started working with the Chaos Council, betrayed them all again to get ahead.

We the audience know just as Sonic does that Nine was captured, and that he used his status to aid Sonic and their search for the prism shards from the inside.

Rebel and Renegade do not.

In fact, (now starting from Season 2 Episode 5), Rebel and Renegade are both distrustful of Sonic when he tries to tell them this (and the fact that they see it as his fault that the Council nabbed more prism shards doesn't help)

"I'm gonna bust into the Yoke, grab the shards, and rescue Nine!"

"The fox with the attitude? The one who stole the shard?"

"I...know he's a little rough around the edges..."

"It's not just the edges."

"But he saved you!"

"And then he disappeared again."

"Because he was captured! We can trust him."

"Him? We don't even trust you."

Nine's actions matter to them, and those actions color their perception of Nine for a while. Same goes for Sonic. Their trust is not easily won back after being broken.

The only reason they decide to travel to the Yoke with Sonic in the first place is because they need to make sure the Coucil doesn't keep the shards, and Sonic is going there to try to take them anyways. They don't trust him, but they do need him.

Later in the episode, "Nine" contacts Sonic to tell him of a way into the Council's fortress. We can safely infer that this "Nine" who contacts Sonic is not the real thing. The voice sounds at best like a robotic imitation, and the way "Nine" talks is suspect enough for Sonic to mention that he sounds weird and to ask if he's okay. But not only do Rebel and Renegade have no reason not to believe that this is the real Nine leading Sonic into the Yoke, Sonic himself vouches for him.

"My inside fox is gonna get us in. Come on!"

"'Bring your friends.' Why would he say that?"

"Because he's a nice guy? I told you, we can trust him."

"Not like we have another option."

Whether Rebel believes that's the real Nine or not, she suspects Sonic is being led into a trap. Even Renegade says he "doesn't like this" and mentions how ominous everything feels when the doors into the Yoke open. They only go along with Sonic because they have no other ways to get into the building.

But lo and behold, it's a trap. Sure we the audience know that this is the Chaos Coucil's doing, that Mr. Dr. tricked Nine into giving him info about Sonic that would spark the idea of Chaos Sonic's creation. We know Nine regrets this slip up and even apologizes to Sonic later for being responsible for Chaos Sonic's creation, and we know Sonic doesn’t doubt Nine's telling the truth.

But to Rebel and Renegade? Sonic just followed his so called "inside fox" right into a trap. It plays into how they already see him, just as Sonic's forced transports to the other shatterspaces before this (via touching the shards) continued to play into how they already saw Sonic as a deserter. They distrust Nine for valid reasons, but it’s because of this distrust and their ideas of who Nine is that they believe the worst of him, even when the audience can see that Nine isn’t intending on betraying any given person.

And Chaos Sonic doesn’t help this view of Nine that Rebel and Renegrade have either.

"Failure? You've got the wrong hedgehog, pal."

"Au contraire, blue hair. I know a fox that might disagree with you."

"Another trap. I knew that fox would set us up!"

So when Nine contacts Sonic himself later...

"Sonic! Are you there?"

"Sorry, pal, but I'm a little busy at the moment."

"I have a plan. Follow my directions and lead it to me."

"Ya sure?"

"Positive. But you gotta hurry!"

"What else is new?"

Here's what Renegade, Rebel, and Dread have to save about it.

"Sonic, wait!"

"Ugh. I'm starting to think he likes traps."

"Aye. He does."

Again. We the audience know this isn't a trap. After following Nine's directions, Nine uses the prism energy to blast and destroy Chaos Sonic after this.

But Rebel and Renegade don't trust Nine. They see this as Sonic falling into all of Nine's traps out of naive trust.

And Dread only agrees because he did use Sonic's trust to lead him into a trap. Dread hasn't met Nine, but if others think this is a trap, he has no reason to believe anything other than Nine being another person weaponizing Sonic's blind trust.

And aside from when Renegade saves Sonic and Nine from Dread later, this is the last time Renegade or Rebel see/hear about Nine. Sometimes Nine really does betray their trust, sometimes Nine is truly trying to help Sonic, but after the initial betrayal, everything Renegade and Rebel see (in regards to Nine’s words and actions) plays into their point of view of Nine as a traitor.

Rebel and Renegade aren't insisting that Nine is going to betray Sonic because they're right and Nine is "secretly evil" and going to do just that or whatever. Sonic isn’t ignoring the "bad" things that Nine did only for Sonic to be punished with Nine being a bad traitor villain all along.

Rebel and Renegade keep insisting that Nine is a traitor because he left them behind, because he doesn't care about them, AND because every bit of evidence they see (a miniscule bit compared to what the audience sees) just so happens to play into their existing biased view of him.

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Let's move on to Rusty Rose.

Now this portion is shorter, as she only has a single run in with Nine. This singular run in is during the first few episodes when Nine takes control of her to help him, Sonic, Rebel, and Renegade fight.

Now here's something important about Rusty we learn in Season 2.

1. Loyalty matters to her.

2. She can choose her own alignment.

Rusty Rose's lines to Sonic when he's in the Chaos Council's clutches, in addition to the fact that the Chaos Council turned her into a fighting machine, gives us a hint as to what's going on here.

"Survival required adaptation, as you will soon learn."

Rusty Rose has always cared about her well-being. But to those she is loyal to, she would give even her life. This is to say that whether she gave herself up as the Chaos Council's weapon for her own survival or whether they saved her and she decided to work with them because of this (and because they'd destroy her otherwise), she is loyal to them. At baseline, she is loyal because she believes they will never betray her, that they will always come for her.

How exactly do we learn this?

In season 2, while Dread and his crew still have Rusty Rose in captivity, she insists the Chaos Council will come for her, and even becomes smug when the council comes for the shard.

The chaos council has come for me and the shard. Just as I said they would."

But in the end, the Chaos Council chooses to leave her after obtaining the shard. She seems surprised that they would betray her, even after following every order to the best of her ability and acting as they had programmed her to. And so, after the Council deserts her, she changes her loyalty (her eye turns pink from the red color) and decides to join Dread's crew.

This scene mirrors a point in the first few episodes.

When Nine briefly reprograms Rusty to work for him, her lone eye changes to the color yellow. Likewise, she's loyal to Nine and the rest and follows orders. And although we don't get to see her face in the Season 2 Episode 5 flashback when Nine emerges with the red shard as we do with Rebel and Renegade, we DO see her face when Nine leaves. If you look back to the screenshot I provided in the Rebel and Renegade section of this essay, you'll see that she looks sad and disappointed. She was betrayed and left behind too.

And what does she do when Nine leaves her behind? She restores her Chaos Council programming and her eye turns red again. She returns back to the only people she can seem to trust to value her.

So Rusty may not have spent much time with Nine, but loyalty matters to her. So all Rusty likely knows of Nine as of the ending of Season 2 is that he betrayed her.

I think with this in mind, it's safe to say that she has no reason to like him or believe in him at the moment either, even if she doesn't subscribe to common ideas of morality either. He betrayed his crew and it's as simple as that (and that's why she has no problem blasting Sonic when Dread frames him as a traitor).

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Now for the Chaos Council.

Now, I think it's clear given the fact that they appropriated his tech and that Mr. Dr. Eggman (in S2 E6) referred to Nine as having a "less dull mind than the usual rifraff", the Council at the very least sees Nine as someone who is a bit more intelligent than most of New Yoke's citizens. Given that their goals are to continuously conquer and *gestures to all that they're doing* they're less concerned with morals and more concerned with their own goals. This means that they just dislike/hate anyone who gets in their way. Things like morals, relationships, etc are all things to manipulate to get what you want (if Mr. Dr. Eggman's talks with Nine are any indication).

So. How does the Council see Nine? Do they see him as someone secretly about to or willing to betray Sonic?

Let's start with their first impressions of Nine (or rather, how they will remember him).

In Season 1 Episodes 1 and 2, while Nine and Sonic are captured, Nine's life and wellbeing is largely used as motivation for Sonic to follow the Council's orders. Aside from this, though, most of the focus (the camera and the Council's) is on Sonic. So, from the events of Episode 2 and 3 of season 1 where Sonic, Nine, Renegade, Rebel, and Rusty fight their way to the red shard, it's simple enough for the Council to consider them all friends (sans Rusty). Doesn't matter if they actually are. They work together (and with Sonic who considers them all friends), so they might as well be friends to the Council. This is not to mention how Mr. Dr. watches Sonic and Nine enter where the shard is, are aware via the power shutting off that their energy crystal has been stolen, and then Sonic and Nine are the two that disappear before the Council can capture them. So at the very least Nine is...cunning. In their minds, he's smart enough to take the power crystal, but not so smart as to clash with the Council's egos.

Now, whether they knew only Nine had taken the red shard or they assumed both Nine and Sonic had coordinated (like Rebel and Renegade had originally assumed), it doesn't really matter here. In S1 E6, Sonic appears (clearly shardless) mentioning the existence of other shards and asking where Nine is (thus indicating he doesn't know where Nine and the red shard are). Then, during the Chaos Council vs Sonic + Resistance battle after this, Nine appears out of a portal with the red shard upon his craft.

And if they hadn't seen "the fox who stole the shard" as Sonic's friend before, there is clear evidence can see between now and the Mr. Dr. Eggman/Nine talk that leads to Chaos Sonic’s creation that they do now.

In Episode 8 of Season 1, the Council discusses eliminating Sonic in pursuit of their conquest, but Nine voices his dissent.

"Agreed. With our work complete, I'll give our girl-bot the go ahead on Operation Elimination."

"Tch. Eliminating the hedgehog is a bad idea."

"Arguing for the life of your friend? What a shock."

After this, Nine argues against the idea that he and Sonic are friends, but he ultimately convinces the council not to eliminate him outright.

"You sent your robots to another shatterspace. Big difference. You've only barely accomplished what he's done without any technology. He's a living shatter battery!"

*The power in the yoke dies briefly, and the coucil members each groan/make sounds of frustration*

"Til we know why he gives off this power, we need him alive. What? H– Grahck!"

*An eggforcer shocks Nine*

"The rat's right. Too many questions for us to start playing exterminator. At least...not until after we wring every ounce of shatterjuice out of that blue varmint."

Not only does he smile in talking about Sonic's accomplishments, but, if you check the end of this scene, Nine lowers his head when the council laughs over Dr. Done It's final statement, he grits his teeth, and he frowns.

In Episode 4 of Season 2, the Council brings Nine out front, and Mr. Dr. sits there when Sonic arrives to see him.

"Nine?"

"Sonic, get out of here!"

*The Eggforcers shock Nine*

"No..."

In fact, when Mr. Dr. threatens the lives of Sonic’s friends if Sonic doesn’t give over the shard, he pointedly leans in Nine's direction as the eggforcers ready their electricity based weapons.

"I'll make this simple."

*Mr. Dr. Eggman moves his chair closer to where Nine is*

"Hand over the shard, or say good bye to your friends forever."

In case you don't go back to watch the episode for this, also note that he begins to lean over during the "to your friends" part of the line, and Nine is the only one of Sonic’s friends in view of the camera as Mr. Dr. gives the ultimatum. The camera only shifts to include Sonic's captured friends after shifting between Nine and Sonic's expressions, and after Sonic turns around to look at them.

So I don't think it's a stretch to say that Mr. Dr. Eggman thinks Sonic and Nine are friends by this point. At the very very least he knows Sonic considers Nine one, given how comfortable he is using Nine as leverage.

Anyhow, in all of the Nine/Chaos Council scenes between his initial capture and the scene where Mr. Dr. asks Nine how to defeat Sonic, the council isn't fully aware of Nine contacting Sonic. This means they are not yet aware of his continued contact with Sonic and do not know what the audience knows about Nine's working them from the inside. They just make Nine upgrade their shatterdrive, remark that they keep him around for his knowledge on the shatterdrive, make him deploy eggforcers, and then keep him cuffed with eggforcer supervision at all times (should he try to escape). They don't trust him enough to keep him uncuffed and completely unsupervised, and they need his knowledge regarding the shards, but they underestimate him. Dr. Don't provides him full access to their systems, even when they leave Nine alone with Eggforcers, they aren't monitoring what Nine could be saying/doing behind their back, and they seem to think they have Nine under their thumbs enough to destroy him should he attempt to fight back.

Let's move on to Season 2 Episode 5.

In Nine's first appearance in this episode, he's led into the room the Council is in by some Eggforcers and employs his "attitude".

"Ahem. You rang for me?"

"How long are we putting up with him?"

"He's built us what we want. Get rid of him already."

"Now, now. We're going to put him to work. But this one posseses a—shall we say—less dull mind than the usual riff-raff. He'll appreciate this."

Then, the council gives Nine a demonstration of the power they possess with the three shards in their possessions and uses it to build upgraded eggforcers for the purpose of quashing Sonic and the resistance. What is the purpose of this in tandem with Mr. Dr. Eggman's "compliment"? I think the next scene involving Nine and the council gives us a bit more context to form an idea.

During this scene, we see that the council has Nine standing before their display, watching Sonic and the resistance fight upgraded bots in the scareport.

"Enjoying the show?"

"It won't be enough."

"Enough?! Balderdash! My jumbo eggforcers will pound that varmint into blueberry jelly!"

"We'll see."

"Yes. We will."

With the combination of "complimenting" Nine, showing off their power and harnessing of the shards after discussing the topic of getting rid of him, and making him watch the upgraded bots fight Sonic, it's clear to me that they're making a power play here (or at least, Mr. Dr. Eggman is). Mr. Dr. is trying to make it clear the might they possess, the futility of rebellion or of trying to disobey orders.

But here, after Nine says "We'll see", I think Mr. Dr. decides to swap tactics a little. They're still trying (and failing) to defeat Sonic, and Nine seems to believe no matter what that Sonic will come out on top. Perhaps Mr. Dr. at least realizes that their display of power is not scaring Nine into submission or causing him to give up on Sonic.

"You admire him, don't you? For all of your bluster, you think of him as a friend. Funny. I thought you were smart."

And I don't see any reason why Mr. Dr. Eggman would lie about an observation like this. If it was about aligning Nine as Sonic's friend while Nine is secretly planning to betray Sonic or doesn't like him, then the focus wouldn't be on Nine's intelligence. To reiterate, Nine's friendship status (or at least, whether he believes Sonic to be his friend) is not put into question so much as how "smart" of a move it is to place his faith and friendship in Sonic. It's manipulation tactic to put Nine's trust in Sonic into question, to again try to get him to lose faith in Sonic. Why? Well...why else? Nine is Sonic's "friend" to the Council, right? So Nine is their best chance at figuring out how to destroy Sonic.

"We both know that the other members of the council won't stop Sonic. They lack vision and imagination. Unlike you."

"You think I have vision and imagination?"

"Perhaps. Or perhaps you're just a stupid fox. Alone. Useless. Pathetic."

Here it's incredibly clear the way Mr. Dr. is trying to use Nine's insecurities against him. Even if he's only guessing, talking up or insulting his intelligence and talents or playing into a possible fear of loneliness and uselessness is a really good guess.

But when Nine gets ahold of himself, uses his tails to gain height and push Mr. Dr. back this time, and insults the Council's intelligence, Mr. Dr. resorts back to brute force. He laughs off the insults and brandishes one of those electricity based weapons.

"Tell me how to defeat Sonic!"

Of course, if Nine was only using Sonic for his own purposes of gathering the shards and secretly planning on betraying him, he could have done so at any point before now, or made it clear that he's set the plans in motion. But since we know Nine's confident in his ability to fight for himself and escape during episode 6 of season 2, he believes himself to have more control over his situation than anyone else does. With this in mind, as long as he's guaranteed a clean enough getaway with the shards he can choose to do so. This gives Nine the ability to manipulate the council back and use them to get the shards. And, to an extent, he does! Although Sonic fails in securing any of them, Nine puts himself in a position to use the council to get anything he wants, even telling Sonic that he's working them from the inside. With this in mind, while there is still risk involved, I believe that he doesn’t necessarily need Sonic's help.

This is all to say that any of these moments in Season 2 Episode 5 would have been a fine point to betray Sonic by telling the council everything he knows about him. The council is full of idiots (to Nine)—idiots with power, but idiots nonetheless. He very well could have used the council to get Sonic out of the way while continuing to play them so he could escape with all the shards.

And yet not only does he refuse to knowingly tell Mr. Dr. Eggman any weaknesses of Sonic’s, he trusts Sonic. Just see the way he's so sure Sonic will win, even as Mr. Dr. Eggman is trying to make him feel stupid for doing so. See how Nine talked about Sonic in S1 E8, tried to convince the council they’d be idiots to get rid of Sonic. See the way that Nine chooses to risk his own plans by contacting Sonic as regularly as he can. See just how Nine talks about Sonic when Mr. Dr. Eggman stops attempting to appeal to Nine's insecurities to get him to lose trust in Sonic:

"You can't. He's too fast. He thinks on his feet. No matter what you throw at him, he takes it. No matter how hard you hit him, he always gets back up! You'll never beat Sonic, because you can't understand him. You don't think like he thinks. You're not even in the same league.

And what does Nine do when Mr. Dr. Eggman and the Council treat those words as if he sold Sonic out (knowingly or not)? He tries to take it back. He says "what have I done?" He immediately tries to contact Sonic (likely to warn him), not realizing Dr. Don't had entered the room until he's caught in the act.

"Warning your friend? Not cool."

He doesn’t at all look pleased watching the Council create Chaos Sonic. He says "what have I done?" a second time while watching Sonic fight Chaos Sonic. Even Dr. Done It regards Nine's "selling out your blue chum" as a slip of the tongue.

And what does the Council do when they learn that Nine's been in contact with Sonic all along? Well they use this relationship to their advantage, of course.

Ah, ah, ah. Let's not be hasty. The fox can lure Sonic right to us."

After all of this, from now until the ending of season 2, here is what the council knows about Nine. They know he managed to steal all the shards out from under them again (with Sonic's assistance), and they pretty much just attempt to track him down to take the shards back. After arriving at Ghost Hill, they put most of their focus on fighting Sonic and Shadow to get to where Nine is with the shards, dealing with their immediate obstacles. They're also firmly antagonistic against Nine, as he's stolen the shards from them and is no longer under their control.

So let's summarize what we can safely assume the Council knows and believes by the Ghost Hill battle. Nine is intelligent, and his know-how and tech are extremely useful. They'd underestimated him, allowing him to steal the shards under their noses, contact Sonic to feed him information, and escape with said shards. They know that Nine trusts Sonic, considers Sonic a friend (at the very least), and believes Sonic will come out on top.

So we return to those questions.

How does the Chaos Council see Nine? As a tool to be used for his information, his intelligence, his technology, and his limbs, capable of performing work. They see him as Sonic's friend (an important one at that). He's bait for Sonic, a pawn that can be used to lure Sonic or motivate him to make certain choices. He's to be used when he can be, and to be crushed if he opposes the Council or is no longer useful.

Do they see him as someone secretly about to or willing to betray Sonic? Do they try to get Nine to betray him? Yes! They command him to dispatch eggforcers and upgrade their tech. They use his well-being as a bargaining chip or to lure Sonic into a trap. They're constantly using him against Sonic. They can see he has the potential to betray, which is exactly why Mr. Dr. appeals to his insecurities to persuade Nine to give up information on Sonic and let go of his trust in Sonic. And yet...they don't seem to think Nine is actively planning to betray Sonic. If they thought so, why spend so much time trying to convince him that placing faith in Sonic is stupid? Why not actively try to persuade Nine to work with them instead? Why do they keep on having to try? Why do they enjoy watching Nine protest as they laugh about how Nine betrayed Sonic? (And why does the insuation that it's all Nine's fault that the council could destroy Sonic get to him the way it does?)

ㅤ

Let's talk about Shadow the Hedgehog.

Shadow (similar to Rebel and Renegade) is a character than people often forget to consider the full pov of. This is to say that I've seen people forget what it is exactly that Shadow knows, and what of his knowledge informs his actions and beliefs (like people believing that Shadow was stupid for thinking that getting Nine's tech would allow him to traverse the shatterverse, forgetting that he didn't even have a tenth of the knowledge Sonic does of everything going on, much less the audience's, by season 2).

So with this in mind, before Shadow and Sonic talk at the beginning of Season 2, what does Shadow know about Nine, and how does he act based upon this knowledge?

Before Season 2, we, the audience, largely see Shadow appear in either flashbacks or trying to talk to Sonic (which happens when he starts to run fast enough to exit the shatterspace or is hurled through the in between after touching a shard), so it’s hard to know the extent of what he knows or can even gather in those moments of communication. Luckily, Season 2 Episode 1 gives us a chance to see some things from Shadow's point of view.

Unluckily, it's a bit hard to determine what exactly Shadow can hear and see at this point, as the first Shadow pov sprinkles in a couple moments Shadow most likely could not have seen (but we cannot rule out him seeing)—moments that tell the audience what point in time everything is occurring. One such moment is when Shadow is chilling on a crystal in the space between the shatterspaces and we see the scene of Sonic being sucked into the red shard before he shoots out of the New Yoke portal entrance. This is to say, it's hard to know for sure whether Shadow is aware of all of the scenes that play out for the audience, such as the clips that play as Shadow punches the entrance to New Yoke (Sonic losing control of his feet/legs, the shot of Mr. Dr. watching Sonic run, etc).

What we can glean from context, though (during this portion, as well as later moments) is that Shadow can at the very least see and hear Sonic, even possibly some of his surroundings (within limits). At the beginning of Episode 1 of Season 2, we can see Sonic sort of partially phase through the portal and into the in between when he runs fast enough (parallel to how Shadow can begin to partly phase into the shatterspace from Sonic's pov if Shadow is around him). During Season 2, namely during the No Place portion as Sonic tries to make off with the blue shard, we can even watch Shadow hold a conversation with Sonic and see changes to his appearance (such as the red dot of light on Sonic as Dread's crew aims to blast him). And finally, during Season 2 Episode 1, Shadow admits that he saw Nine in his lab giving Sonic the tech and the lab Sonic ran fast in (scenes that played for the audience while Shadow was busy punching the New Yoke portal).

Okay, so let's consider what we can see before Shadow confronts Sonic in the space between. At the very very least, he's aware that Sonic has new tech on his gloves and shoes and can hear everything Sonic says when Shadow manages to reach him through the portals. At the very most, he has some strange unexplained telepathy that allows him to see and hear some of what Sonic sees and hears. Of course, I don't personally believe the latter, as this hasn't really come up or been explained. So in my opinion, at most he can just see and hear what's going on and Sonic’s surroundings within certain limits. Under this interpretation, I believe that it's possible he saw and heard some of the scenes the audience sees here such Nine talking about energy, Sonic losing control, etc (if his admittance of seeing Nine and Sonic in the lab as Nine puts the regulators on Sonic is anything to go by).

So what does this mean for Shadow's knowledge? I believe it's safe to infer that, from Shadow's pov, the tech Sonic got from the strange version of Tails (Nine) has some sort of effect on him (as Sonic started to move through shatterspaces after this).

The next piece of knowledge we know Shadow could learn is the existence of alternate versions of people in the different shatterspaces. When Shadow finally gets ahold of Sonic, Sonic (loudly) starts trying to sus out whether Shadow is "grumpy Shadow" or "Shadow who needs a shower" or "Sheriff Shadow" or whoever. Then, after this, he realizes that this is the original Shadow he's faced with.

"Shadow, you're...you! The real you!"

"The only me."

This is info enough for Shadow to learn there are other versions of people they (Sonic and Shadow) know out in the shatterspaces. It's even enough context to assume that they are copies of the real thing, fakes, if Sonic's wording of "the real you" is anything for him to go by.

Here are the next two bits of information to add to Shadow's abilities and what he knows (one we learn about Shadow, and one tidbit that adds to Shadow's knowledge). The first is a bit of a testimony of just what he can see when Sonic kicks up a lot of prism energy.

"Have...you been able to see me this whole time?"

"Not exactly. When you get going fast, you kick up prism energy, and it thins the veil to the void. It's like it's...opening a portal through the gateway."

So, at the very least, we know that Shadow can't just see Sonic whenever he wants, and hasn't been doing so the whole time. As Sonic kicks up prism energy by running fast, it thins the veil to the place in between, allowing Sonic and Shadow to see each other.

The second bit would be Shadow hearing about Nine for the first time.

"So that must be how I teleported into No Place. I was looking for Nine, I started running fast, and then, suddenly, I portaled out of New Yoke."

This isn't a lot, but it at least tells us that the existence of Nine has entered the equation here. A being that Sonic knows by name who exists in one of the shatterspaces, and someone that Sonic was specifically looking for.

Now, I want to bring up something interesting about Shadow's pov after he and Sonic enter Ghost Hill. Aside from some possible tidbits here and there (and more than likely experience solely through seeing and talking to Sonic), the bulk of Shadow's experiences with the shatterspaces are based upon his experience with Ghost Hill (the only shatterspace he can enter at this time).

"What’s wrong with them?"

"It's a shatterspace, Sonic. Just like the others. A cruel version to make us suffer."

"A cruel version to make us suffer"

That line alone gives us more insight into Shadow's pov. While we, the audience, can see that the existence of those who live in the shatterspaces aren't inherently existing out of cruelty/to mess with someone like Sonic, Shadow has only seen what Ghost Hill is like. This tells us that Shadow sees Ghost Hill as a cruel version of Green Hill, an imitation that allows you to see but not have. It shows you the places and faces and voices you know, but none of it is "real" (or in this case, the original). It's not even surprising for Shadow to feel that this is cruel or purposeful. I mean, he is the one trapped, unable to do anything, as Sonic just so happens to be the one with the power to fix anything. He is the one who's doomed to watch the shatterverse change while he can't do a thing about it. And so of course the only shatterspace he can enter tricks him into thinking it may have been home (the home that's gone). Of course that shatterspace is filled with imitations that seem like what he lost but cannot be.

While Sonic is on his hero's journey, Shadow is stuck in a genre more psychological. So of course, via his experiences being stuck and his only experience with one of the shatterspaces, he'd assume the entire shatterverse was designed this way.

So, to sum this up a little bit. It is entirely likely that Shadow sees the inhabitants of the shatterverse as not only fake copies, but of those whose existence is part of a cruel game to make he and Sonic suffer over the shattering of the prism and the loss of their home. Does this make sense? It not only inherently hurts, but it’s designed to be cruel.

Shadow has only met the "ghosts" of Ghost Hill at this point. He doesn't fully know what we the audience know—that the inhabitants of the shatterspaces are real people with lives and backstories.

Now, with all of this in mind, how does Shadow first approach Sonic regarding the knowledge he has? Remember. It's, baseline, that Sonic can enter shatterpaces while he can't, Sonic started moving through shatterspaces after obtaining the tech on his gloves and shoes from a being who resembles Tails, Sonic creates portals and thins the veil between shatterspaces and the void when he runs fast, that "Nine" is an inhabitant of one of the shatterspaces Sonic knows and looked for at some point, that Ghost Hill is the only shatterspace he can enter, that Ghost Hill resembles and immitates Green Hill to a degree of cruelty, and that he believes that all the shatterspaces are "cruel" versions of his and Sonic’s home with fake versions of people they know, crafted specifically to make the two of them suffer.

"Yeah...yeah, that could work! It has to work! We gotta show Nine. He's like super smart! He knows a ton about prism energy. He–"

"No."

"No?"

"No."

"Why 'no'? I just said he's, like, super smart."

"He can’t be trusted."

If there's one bit from the Shadow portion so far I need to point out, it's this. Shadow asserts that Nine cannot be trusted. Shadow has never even met Nine at this point, only seen him standing in the lab with Sonic. How can he be so sure that Nine—or the other inhabitants for that matter—are specifically untrustworthy? Not even just fake imitations. Untrustworthy.

Why does Shadow jump to this conclusion?

"What are you talking about? Of course he can. He's just like Tails. He's just a little...angsty, that's all."

Again, there is no proof that Shadow has even seen much more than maybe an image of Nine, much less met him. Sonic's sticking up for Nine's attitude again, just like he did when talking to Rebel and Renegade, but Shadow cannot even know much of anything about Nine. He should not have a bias (beyond looks) based upon knowing Nine.

And this also means that, most likely, Shadow cannot assert that Nine is untrustworthy due to any solid evidence like Rebel or Renegade can, for example.

"He's not Tails. He's Nine. And they're not. Your real. Friends."

"Dude. He's real. This is his reality. And you know what else is real? Nine's tech on my kicks and punching sticks. So back up off Nine."

So, again. Why does Shadow jump to the conclusion that Nine and the other inhabitants of the shatterspaces are untrustworthy? This is what I think based upon the evidence we've gathered in this section.

I believe that it's entirely possible that Shadow sees himself stuck in a psychological horror. Based on his experiences living in the shatterverse so far, this reality they're in is like a punishment game. He and Sonic are both being punished for how Sonic shattered the paradox prism. Their home is gone, everything is broken. Unless they can fix it, the shatterverse is the setting of this cruel game, filled with shatterspaces (pale imitations of the home they lost) and the copies—fake beings—who inhabit it that were created with the sole purpose of hurting Sonic and Shadow. They hold similarities of the settings and the faces of the people they know as if to taunt (or to remind what they lost and cannot have). Logically under this framework, if Shadow believes that the inhabitants of the shatterverse have an inherently cruel existence and exist to make them hurt, then them seeming real is a distraction from the fact that they're designed to hurt (think...how Yen Sid tells Sora in Kingdom Hearts 2 that Nobodies are fake people, and any emotion they show is a manipulation tactic to make people believe that they're real). But Sonic is not only acting like they're real, considering them friends, he's trusting them. Perhaps Shadow feels...angry, because the only other "real" person (the one who caused all this) keeps chasing these living lies and believing them when they say/act like they can help end this hurt (help "fix" everything, restore it to how it used to be). Perhaps to him, these people (Nine included) are beings who wish to bring hurt, so why, then, would they help end that hurt or erase their own existences by "fixing" everything? Maybe Shadow thinks Sonic is being stupid, that he's placing his trust in Nine only because he sees Tails' face (falling for the lie), and is also angry because Sonic would stick up for and trust Nine rather than believe him—someone who is real and wants to end the hurt.

Okay okay, I'll stop there for now. That's moreso an interpretation I think you can derive from the beginning of Episode 1 of Season 2 up to this point rather than necessarily fact or authorial intent. I just think it's...food for thought.

Of course I also happen to think that Shadow, with his limited knowledge of who Nine even is, also chooses to insist that Nine specifically is untrustworthy because he becomes jealous that Sonic values a "fake" so much and thinks of him so highly, trusting him even over Shadow (someone who is real and clearly just wants to help Sonic as well as fix everything).

In any case, here are the facts up to this point. Shadow has heard Nine's name, knows the tech on Sonic was designed by him, watched Nine put the tech on Sonic, thinks this tech Nine created allows Sonic to traverse the shatterverse, and knows Nine is smart and "like Tails" because Sonic speaks highly of him. With this evidence, Shadow believes Nine is untrustworthy. He also believes the inhabitants of the shatterspaces aren't real and cannot be Sonic's friends. Shadow also grows angry when Sonic tries to argue and assert that Nine is trustworthy and that he and his other friends are real.

After Season 2 Episode 1, Shadow takes more of a backseat role. While we get to see his pov at times, or even watch him talk to Sonic, he can only see inside the shatterspaces to any extent while Sonic is kicking up enough prism energy. This, of course, means that Shadow is still not privy to most of the information Sonic and the audience are.

In Season 2 Episode 2, Shadow (to our knowledge) is not privy to much going on. In fact, with what we know about the limitations he has of seeing inside the shatterspaces, he could have seen during the portions Sonic is particularly speeding, but none of these occur in relation to Nine. This is all to say that we the audience could see the scene where Nine contacted Sonic through the eggforcer, explained how he was infiltrating the Council from the inside, and upgraded Sonic's tech to make gathering the shards easier, but Shadow does not.

Here is the only conversation between Nine and Sonic in Episode 2 of Season 2 that Shadow was privy to any of.

"Hang on, Nine. I'm comin' for ya."

"No. Don't worry about me. I'm working on a plan to get the shards from the inside. The best thing for you to do is to get the next shard before they do."

"Are you sure?"

"Totally! These eggheads are playing into my hands. They don't—"

"—been dowloading their tech. You just need to get to the shard first, then get out. I better go."

At that last bit of dialogue (beginning with "You"), Sonic lands on a crystal out in the place between. After Nine hangs up on him, the camera zooms out, revealing Shadow standing on the shard next to him.

"That's the first time one of them has made any sense."

It's hard to know for sure how long Shadow has been listening to Sonic's conversation, but given just how far away he'd have to be stalking Sonic when he exits Boscage maze (far enough to hear without being within range of the camera), I think it's safe to assume he's at least listened to the lines Nine and Sonic spoke as Sonic landed on that piece of crystal. That line specifically was Nine instructing Sonic to get the No Place shard before the Chaos Council does, which lines up with the immediate goal Sonic and Shadow would have. This is to say that if Shadow heard this line at least, it makes sense for him to "compliment" Nine by saying that he makes any sort of sense.

Although I also believe Shadow says "That's the first time one of them has made any sense" because Nine is one of the first inhabitant of the shatterverse Shadow's heard that isn't exactly like the "ghosts" of Ghost Hill (essentially, seems to actually think rather than repeating a single line endlessly.

What this scene adds to Shadow's knowledge is that no matter how much of the convo he heard, he has reason to believe that Nine is also seeking the paradox prism shards. However, just because Shadow knows a motivation of Nine's and more of what he's like doesn't mean he trusts him. Or, at least, Sonic takes Shadow's attitude as him still being openly distrustful of Nine. Given how short Shadow is with Sonic, even spin dashing him into the No Place portal entrance, I don't find it too much of a stretch to assert that his attitude here is a mixture of his frustration at not being able to go himself and the relationship/trust Sonic insists on keeping up with Nine (rather than just "how he acts usually").

"Nine's on our side, Shadow. And if you're not gonna help, you can–"

"Oh. I can help."

Although Shadow shows up in Season 2 Episodes 3 and 4 to talk to Sonic and to delay the Chaos Council's mothership's arrival in No Place, none of these really involve Nine. In any of the moments Shadow could have seen Sonic in No Place, they were Sonic running away for the most part (trying to escape with the shard), which of course doesn't exactly help the pov he has of the shatterverse inhabitants. Though Nine also contacts Sonic and is able to see him during this portion, these do not coincide with the times Shadow talks to him. Likewise, although Nine was on the mothership while Shadow was attacking it, neither of them see each other, and there is no evidence to suggest that they are aware of each other's presence (as in, that Shadow knows Nine is on the mothership and Nine knows that Shadow is the attacker). With Shadow being largely absent the way he is, it stands to reason he still has no chance to see the complexity and humanity of the shatterspaces' inhabitants, especially since he's in contact with Sonic as Sonic is running away (trying not to get killed).

As for Episodes 5 and 6 of Season 2. Shadow only shows up once between these two. Specifically, Shadow's pov is shown in Episode 6 as he reacts to how the shatterverse is beginning to break down. Other than that, though, the only moments he'd have to peek into what's happening (offscreen in this case) would be while Sonic is running fast enough. During Episode 5 and most of 6, these moments Sonic may be running fast enough for Shadow to peek in on him are all while he's fighting. This, again, doesn't give Shadow a chance to really gauge the character of New Yoke's residents (aside from the council), much less a chance to see what's going on with Nine.

Even in Episode 7 of Season 2, Shadow doesn't show up until the scene in which he properly meets Nine. With this in mind, aside from Episode 1 of Season 2, Shadow is very rarely present during Season 2 before his first official meeting with Nine.

So, to summarize, this is what Shadow knows/thinks about Nine before properly meeting him. Nine is similar to Tails (in both looks and intelligence), Nine built the tech that Sonic wears on his gloves and shoes, Sonic trusts Nine and fancies him a friend, even going so far as to stick up for the idea that he's real and trustworthy, and Nine is also gathering the paradox prism shards.

That's...it. That's all. And Shadow knew even less when he'd initially claimed that Nine wasn't trustworthy. Before their official meeting, Shadow saw Nine maybe once via what he saw during Sonic's first arrival in New Yolk, and he heard him speak once after S2 E2, when he told Sonic to focus on getting the next shard. He has...such little context/knowledge compared to the audience.

Now, the first meeting. After Sonic and Nine enter the space between with the shards in Episode 7 of Season 2, Shadow catches the container for the shards with Nine on top.

"It's about time."

"Nine, meet Shadow. Shadow, meet Nine."

"You're not another version of Sonic...but you could be twins!"

"Hardly. I am the ultimate life form."

"Don't listen to him. Come on."

Personally, I don't feel as if Shadow acts differently than usual in this scene. He doesn't talk very much, doesn't greet Nine, and isn't necessarily "friendly", but, again, none of this is out of the ordinary for him. The only thing I can confidently say here is that Sonic’s problem is Shadow's attitute, which is why he tells Nine to ignore him. However, he responds as this is a usual thing as well. "He's always like this. Just ignore him." He is also not going out of his way to be mean or vindictive towards Nine. Even Nine (despite his talking about Sonic and Shadow's resemblance) can't have done more than mildly annoy Shadow.

No, what's more significant than the first meeting (for the purposes of this essay) is actually Nine's reaction to seeing Tails in Ghost Hill.

"This world... It's like an embryonic shatterspace. Like it got stuck in the blueprint phase while forming. Hmm... Perhaps it would be useful in finishing The Grim."

"As long as I'm around, you'll always have a wingman!"

"This is the friend Sonic thought was like me? Heh. We're nothing alike."

After this interaction occurs, the camera switches to Shadow, who begins to make this face.

There are two bits from Nine's words I believe could be of interest to Shadow here.

"Perhaps it would be useful in finishing The Grim."

"We're nothing alike."

Why?

Well, let's tackle the first one. One thing that Shadow knows about Nine is that Nine is also looking for the paradox prism shards. Sonic seems to think Nine is on his side, but Shadow hasn't trusted Nine and his intentions from the beginning (as I went a bit into earlier going over Shadow's opinions on Nine as of Episode 1 of Season 2). So if Shadow did hear this line (and it's a bit unclear, but not impossible, that he did), he has reason to believe that Nine doesn't want the shards for the same reason Shadow believes himself and Sonic do. Or, at the very least, that Nine just has different goals in general.

As for the second one, Shadow told Sonic all the way back in Episode 1 that Nine isn't Tails, that he can't be trusted, and that Nine (as well as the other variants) isn't one of Sonic's "real" friends. A statement like "We're nothing alike" straight from Nine's mouth would be validating in this case. It validates Shadow's opinion that Sonic is being stupid and that Nine and Tails aren't the same, and it can easily give Shadow less reason to trust him. After all, if Tails is someone who generally is considered a "good" person or someone who would logically try to help fix everything, but Nine is not at all like him... That line could put Shadow off because he's already distrustful of him, and because of the potential implications Nine could be making from as Shadow's pov. This is to say that although Nine here is only rejecting the idea that he is just like Tails (or really, just like anyone and not his own unique being), Shadow is already biased against him. With Nine's wording, it's not hard for Shadow to insert intent/implications where there are none in his interpretation of the line.

Now, what I find interesting after this (in addition to Shadow's lack of hostility towards Nine despite his assumptions back in Season 2 Episode 1) is the attitude change.

Of course Shadow may have been angrier at Sonic back then, but he had also asserted so confidently back then that Nine isn't Sonic's friend as isn't to be trusted (and not even confidently, but as if annoyed or angry). But he...fulfill's Nine's wish to be alone with the prism shards, offers to take Sonic out, and gives him a calmer talk at the end of Episode 7 of Season 2.

"How do you know you can trust him?"

...

"I don't think your 'friend' wants the same thing we do."

Vs.

"He can’t be trusted."

...

"He's not Tails. He's Nine. And they're not. Your real. Friends."

There are a multitude of reasons this change in tone and demeanor Shadow has could be. It could be because he calmed down a bit more since S2 E1, it could be that he's decided to take a different approach when talking to Sonic about Nine, it could be that he's not so overly confident in his belief that the variants are all just "cruel versions to make us suffer" anymore after meeting Nine (or at least that the variants are so one dimensional), or it could even be that he's decided that Nine is helpful but Sonic should be more on guard. It's...hard to know which or how many are the truth here. All we know is that there is an outright change between these scenes and even Shadow's attitude, and that, despite the little interaction they've had, what Shadow's seen and heard is enough for him to come to the conclusion that Nine may not have good intentions and/or that Nine isn't actually trying to help them. Just like with Rebel and Renegade, whether Shadow has valid reasons or reasoning we can understand from his pov on Nine's character and intentions, his heavy bias he had even before meeting Nine colors all the information Shadow learns about him. This is all to say that (like Renegade and Rebel) it's easy for even actions/statements that have no inherent bad intentions to just feed back into his existing bias against Nine.

So, just in case, I'll reiterate. Shadow does have enough evidence to suspect that Nine doesn't truly share his and Sonic's goals, and he has enough pre-existing bias based upon his first impressions of the Ghost Hill variants to be suspicious of Nine's intentions and character. However, he has still barely met, seen, or heard about Nine second-hand. He knows very few facts about Nine other than how he's intelligent, is looking for the shards too, and is someone Sonic clearly has some attachment to. Yet...he seems to feel that Nine is untrustworthy (perhaps even on gut instinct) despite the lack of solid proof.

Well, actually, he doesn't just feel, this way. He actually tells Sonic that he distrusts Nine.

"What about him? We can't just leave him alone with the prism shards."

"Uhhh, yes we can, seeing as how he's the only one who can put them back together. You know, fix reality. You really don't trust him, do ya?"

"No."

"Of course you don't. You don't trust anyone."

He doesn’t actually tell Sonic why he doesn't. If anything, throughout this whole scene of them talking about Nine, he seems not to understand why Sonic does trust Nine (why he and Sonic aren't on the same page). Perhaps it just feels...obvious to Shadow? But even then, with Shadow's facial expressions as Sonic takes the "Why wouldn't we trust him?" stance, it seems to be that Shadow's point of view remains to be that of "Sonic is trusting him naively. This is something that could cost us."

Finally, we arrive at the final episode of Season 2. Despite his distrust in Nine (like Renegade and Rebel before him regarding Sonic), he has no choice but to join Sonic in the battle against the Chaos Council. First, Sonic's right in saying that Nine is the only person they have right now who can recomplete the prism. Second, he doesn't want to leave Sonic to fight the Council alone.

Now, while Sonic is in communication with Nine during the battle, he rarely talks to him around Shadow. The only moment he does is when eggforcers breach the mountain and put the prism's security and Nine's safety in jeopardy, to which Shadow only tells Sonic to go and protect the prism. Out of the two, I feel as if it's clear that Shadow trusts himself to hold his own over Sonic (I mean, he felt as if he (Shadow) was the best one to gather the shards in S2 E1, and he just made a statement about how badly the battles go when Sonic fights alone), so it makes sense why he'd send Sonic off to fight some eggforcers while he himself holds his own against the council, giving Sonic his chance to move. This is all to say that it makes sense why Shadow doesn't choose to be the one to protect the prism here, but we should also keep in mind just how in the dark Shadow is about what's happening with Nine.

In fact, Shadow isn't privy to anything happening in the prism chamber for a while. He didn't see Sonic and Nine's interaction, didn't watch Nine power Sonic up with the shard energy, Sonic didn't give him a detailed answer on how he got stronger and who was involved (only that he "got a power up"), Shadow doesn't see Nine power Sonic up to defeat the prismatic Titan, and Shadow–

Pause.

That scene in the final episode. You know, the one where Sonic returns after defeating the prismatic titan, Nine says that they were just using the blueprint to figure out what shards went where so they could complete the prism, and Sonic asserts they've actually been doing it to fix Green Hill? The part where Sonic and Nine disagree over whether it's possible to fix Green Hill, whether they should fix what was or move on and create a new home?

The part where Sonic accidentally implies Nine isn’t real to him?

A scene in which Shadow would be able to clearly see Nine's motivations?

The ENTIRE lead up to Nine taking the shards and deciding to leave Sonic behind?

Yeah ha ha...ha...ahah...

Shadow doesn't see any of that. You want to know when Shadow arrives? What he sees?

All he sees is Nine with all the shards at the edge of a portal, Sonic trying to get him to stay and Nine leaving (choosing not to trust Sonic). Practically all Shadow sees of Nine and Sonic interacting while they don't know he's there is Nine "betraying" Sonic and stealing the shards. He misses the entire complicated conversation and everything that lead up to the event.

Again, Shadow misses any nuance and any context that might allow him to see Nine more as he is. Nine leaving with the shards, betraying them and blowing off Sonic's attempts to appeal to him? It just feeds right back into Shadow's existing bias against Nine.

Shadow didn't trust Nine. He thought Sonic was naive for choosing to trust Nine. He felt that Nine didn't share the same goals as him.

Of course Nine steals the shards, betrays Sonic (who'd believed in and trusted him so so much, Shadow knows), and leaves them to die. Shadow already thought the variants were practically designed to make him and Sonic suffer, and what best to make Sonic suffer by having his trust broken by a fake wearing the face of his best friend, right?

Shadow did not have proof or real reason to believe Nine to be evil or planning to betray Sonic. He didn't even have half the physical proof Rebel and Renegade had when they decided Nine was traitorous. Shadow just always felt that Nine couldn't be trusted, and frustrated and annoyed for some reason that Sonic didn't agree.

Does this make Shadow a good judge of Nine's character? Was Shadow really right because he was seeing the signs all along, or was it because everything that happened just so happened to line up with his pre-existing bias (like back when Chaos Sonic implied Nine was involved with the trap, and Renegade assumed that Nine had set up the entire trap because of course the "traitorous fox" would)?

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For now, let's move on to the last point of view. How does Sonic see Nine? Is Sonic really just some naive hedgehog who trusted a fox—a fox who was clearly always planning to betray him—just because he wore the face of his missing best friend? Up until the end of season 2, did Sonic just refuse to see or miss all the red flags—all the signs that Nine was always going to betray him in the end?

Let's start from the very beginning. Season 1 Episode 1: Shattered.

What not a single person can overstate is how Sonic’s initial perception of every variant and their character is heavily rooted in his own bias. In this case the "bias" at hand is Sonic either assuming the variants are one of his original friends (like when he thought Nine was just Tails who had forgotten him), or somehow connected to them. In my Sonine Prime essay series I have talked a few times during S1 about how Sonic is largely going through Season 1 trying to guess what's happening around him with his limited knowledge of everything at hand, his lack of knowledge of the genre he's in, and his scrambling to explain things without there being someone like Tails to understand it for him. At first he believes Nine is Tails but missing some of his important memories. Then he believes that Nine, Rusty, Rebel, and Renegade are just his friends but "messed up" (still with the idea that they don't remember him). Then he realizes that there are multiple variants and comes to the conclusion that they are all part of the originals or contain pieces of the original deep down. Sonic’s idea of the reality of the variants continues to change until he at baseline believes they are all their own real people.

But where does Nine fit into all this? Just how much does Sonic's original perception of him as "just Tails" affect how he sees Nine by the end or season 2? Does Sonic actually just 100% see him as a replacement for Tails rather than his own person?

Well, I can answer that last question now if you wish. The answer is no, but the entire thing is eh...complicated.

In Episode 1 of Sonic Prime, after participating in an entire fight scene against Nine (who he believes to be Tails fighting him for some reason or Tails who doesn't remember him and home), Sonic explains what he knows of Tails' backstory. In return, Nine reacts as if Sonic knows details about him that no one should know, but then goes on to explain what actually happened to him. Sonic, of course, begins to have a reaction based on this.

I will remind you that, at this point in time, Sonic believes that Eggman succeeded in taking over Green Hill. He believes that this is is home, and that Nine, Rebel, Renegade, etc are his original friends.

"...Doesn't make sense. You are Tails, but– you're not... Here, but...gone?"

As of here through to the end of Episode 3, we have reason to believe that Sonic believes that Nine is Tails. He does his best to recognize Nine's preferred name, but he makes a number of references to getting the prism and "fixing all of this", refers to the New Yoke variants as "messed up yous", and at times even acts as if the variants should be/are like his original friends (as we see from the scene he starts introducing the variants under the names and traits of the originals). He quite literally believes that Nine is just Tails without his memories of Sonic. He thinks he just needs to stop eggman, get the prism, and make his "friends" remember.

While I will emphasize how much it makes sense that Sonic would approach the New Yoke variants initially with this conclusion, it will unfortunately affect how he perceives Nine forever.

In Season 2 Episode 6, Sonic returns to New Yoke. Rebel and Renegade are angry at him for leaving them behind, and (as we covered in the Rebel and Renegade section) they consider Sonic and Nine to be traitors. However, while Rebel and Renegade (understandably) label Sonic and Nine as traitors for the betrayal they witnessed, Sonic is...surprised when he learns that Nine made off with the shard.

"I didn't steal the shard!"

"But your fox friend did. Right before he left us high and dry."

"He...did?"

I'm going to refrain into digging too far into how Sonic sees Tails (as dredging up the evidence would be another essay), but, in short, we know that Tails is his best friend. Tails is smart, he helps fight Eggman for the greater good, and he'd never leave a friend behind, right?

By this episode, Sonic has shifted his idea of the variants already. He no longer thinks Nine or Rebel or Renegade are just his original friends missing their memories, but we know that he feels as if there are pieces or traits of his friends who reside in all the variants deep down. He tries to talk like Amy and get Thorn to be a "good friend" and make up with everyone. He tries to appeal to Dread and get him to join the crew's search for the blue shard, referring to that stubborn loyalty of Knuckles'.

So Sonic has already created an idea of Nine based upon his idea of Tails. Sure Nine is "a bit angsty" and a loner, but he'd never leave any friends behind or leave people in danger, would he?

Tails would never just leave everyone behind, and Sonic doesn’t want to believe that Nine would or to believe the worst of him. So to Sonic...it must all be some huge misunderstanding, right? Sonic will prove that he and Nine aren’t traitors. When he finds Nine there has to be a reasonable explanation for why he made off with the red shard and left Rebel, Rusty, and Renegade to the council's mercy.

Nine is Sonic's friend, and Sonic believes that Tails is in him deep down here. He refuses to believe that Nine is evil or doesn't care about others.

"If they get that energy crystal back, we're done for."

"Nine won't let that happen!"

...

"I'm sorry I wasn't there when you needed me. But I'm not a traitor and neither is Nine. Let me prove it to you. Let me fight by your side."

He thinks so highly of Nine and believes in the good in him. Most of us agree that this is because of Sonic comparing Nine to Tails and because of how he initially started trying to pull Nine into the intelligent little buddy role. But...is this all because of Tails? Is it–?

Let's take a step back for a moment. Remember how in the previous sections I talked about the character's pre-existing biases and how Nines actions would coincidentally fit into these biases, and how I've emphasized what it is the characters actually have seen?

Well, here's the truth of the situation. Sonic didn't see Nine abandon Rebel, Renegade, and Rusty. While they're clearly angry, he has no clue what actually occured, how Nine acted, and he refuses to assume that Nine grabbed the shard and just split. And when you hear that someone you've already decided to trust (even though Sonic later updates his idea of Nine as his own person, it's due to Sonic's existing bias towards Tails that he trusted Nine in the first place) has done something awful, you'd want to see that proof or know the context. You'd want to hear what happened from the one you trust. And here's another truth about the situation. Nine up to this point has never betrayed Sonic. After they talked in the scareport after their battle, had a heart to heart, Nine proved he was no longer hostile to Sonic. Nine gave him the regulators and helped him with his little running issue. Although Nine had no way to save him when Sonic was about to be blasted back at the Yoke, when Rebel and Renegade swooped in to fight, Nine freed Sonic at his first available chance. During that entire adventure in the Yoke through to episode 3, Sonic has seen Nine work together with the others as they fight for a singular goal. Even when Nine suggested they leave the others behind to get the shard, Rebel tells Sonic the same thing right afterwards.

Aside from hearsay, Sonic (by Episode 6 of Season 1) has no reason to believe that Nine is a traitor. Nine assisting with the fight in the Yoke, helping him out—all of this feeds right back into the idea Sonic has of Nine's character. He reasonably feared that Nine would keep attacking him in episode 1 after the battle, and he reasonably believed that Nine baseline cared about the well-beings of others.

Let's look at Sonic's talks with Nine in S1 E6 after Nine picks him up from New Yoke.

(For the record, as I've already taken up quite a lot of your time here, I'm going to try to be as concise as I can with this section. But if you'd like to read a more in depth analysis of Nine and Sonic during this scene I've done, you can read Sonine Prime Part 6 here.)

As I said, Nine helping out in the battle before he picks up Sonic just feeds into Sonic's pre-existing bias. Nine very clearly only came to pick Nine up from New Yoke so he could take him to the Grim (and that's pretty much what he does the moment Sonic jumps into his cockpit). Sonic, however, already asserted to Rebel and Renegade that Nine is not a traitor and that this battle for the existence of the resistance and the citizens' hope in a better future will allow him to prove that neither he and Nine are traitorous. He doesn't know where Nine is exactly before he shows up, nor does he have real reason to believe Nine will show up during this fight, but Sonic was extremely happy Nine did. Likewise, Nine doesn't know any details about the resistance's fight with the Chaos Council. He has no real reason to believe that Sonic will just go with him and leave during the battle, but he's also very happy to see Sonic and to take Sonic's attention.

So while Nine came to New Yoke to pick up Sonic, Sonic assumed Nine came to join the fight, to help the rebels fight for a better future, and to clear their names. He's assuming that Nine shares the same intentions as him and has the same general idea of what "a good person" would do that he projects onto Nine. As for Nine, he also just kind of assumed Sonic would go along with him. When talking about the Grim to Sonic, he emphasizes that it's a clean slate, he appeals to Sonic's wish for home by talking about how it can be a new home for the two of them. In addition, he also has an idea of a "good person" he projects onto Sonic, given how he tries to appeal to that assumed nature by talking about how the two of them can create a "better world" (as opposed to New Yoke, a city that only brought Nine misery, that Nine has no hope for).

Plus, as the two traverse the area between the shatterspaces, they play tug of war with the conversation at hand. Sonic talks to Nine about how they really should get back to New Yoke to help the rebels (they're fighting an incredibly important battle at the moment). Specifically he says "we should get back" (emphasis on the "we"), and talks as if he's trying to remind Nine why they should be fighting right now and why that matters.

As for Nine, especially because he's pretty detached and doesn't know or care of the extent of what's going on in New Yoke, he keeps steering the conversation towards The Grim and what he's discovered about the shards. He keeps emphasizing that this is about creating home for the both of them together, and he also talks like he's trying to remind Sonic of "their" goals and why the creation of home here matters.

It's also worth mentioning here that Nine both does not know the extent of what's happening in New Yoke (because he wasn't there with Sonic, he didn't meet the full resistance, he doesn't know about the palm tree or the specifics of that fight of the future) and doesn't really care. He also isn't malicious about it either. He's not acting like everyone in New Yoke deserves to suffer and he's purposely leaving them there to suffer. Rather, he responds to Sonic's attempts to convince him to go back to New Yoke with him and fight by talking about how the city brought him misery and he doesn’t owe it anything. He's taking a neutral stance of "That city was not my home. It hurt me and it brought me only misery. I'm not going to go out of my way to destroy it or hurt people there. As long as people there leave me alone, then I will leave it alone. It's the city's problem if it's hurtling towards destruction, not mine."

These two are just focusing on completely different things—specifically things they emotionally invested themselves in and placed their focus in before the two met again in S1 E6. And yeah! Maybe how Nine acts during this scene should have been enough to tell Sonic that Nine doesn't care about New Yoke or saving every little person in danger. Nine does make it pretty clear that he only cares about his goal of creating a new home and better world for himself and Sonic. However, Sonic is the kind of hedgehog that not only believes in Nine's capacity for "goodness" (or how Sonic personally believes one has to be to be a "good person"), but that Nine has to be a "good person". Even before he'd accepted Nine as his own person that isn't just Tails, he'd formed that solid idea of Nine's character as someone who would naturally help people in need, and he doesn’t want to admit that the idea he has of Nine in his head is wrong.

But, even with all of that in mind, is any of this really proof or "red flags" that Nine would betray Sonic all along? Sure Sonic's ignoring here in the Grim that Nine doesn't care about New Yoke or the resistance all that much, but does Nine ever give any indication that he's just using Sonic to get the shards and was planning on exerting control over the shatterverse?

No.

Nine is happy to see Sonic. We know from S2 E7 that he very genuinely had integrated Sonic into his plans, very seriously planned to create a new home to live in with Sonic (so he wasn't lying about it). He already had two prism shards and was already experimenting with using them to alter reality in the Grim, and gave no indication he wanted more. He could have continued to shape the Grim to his will, but instead he brought Sonic there so they could do it together. When Sonic seemingly rejects his proposal to create a new world together, he seems disappointed, acts like he's been rejected, helps Sonic get back to New Yoke.

Nothing about that screams power hungry fox trying to hurt people on purpose. He got exactly what he needed (a couple shards and Sonic), and if he'd had his way right then, they would have just created a home in the Grim.

All the fox wanted was to be left alone and to be home.

During this scene, how can Sonic miss "red flags" that Nine has been "secretly evil all along" that aren't even there?

Sonic's only crime is trying to hold onto the exact idea he has of Nine as a "good person" by his own standards. And frankly, even when Sonic relents and goes to New Yoke without him, he makes it so clear that he just knows Nine will come back to fight with him, just like he knew Nine would come to help earlier (even if Nine had only actually come for him).

After their battle in S1 E1, Nine had a heart to heart with him. Nine created the regulators and helped Sonic control the energy bursting from him. Nine helped him and the rebels escape captivity/danger while they were in the Yoke, and assisted in keeping the others from harm as they all fought together. He came right in the nick of time to turn the tide of the battle for a minute in E6 of S1. And even after making it clear to the audience that he doesn’t care about New Yoke, and pushing against Sonic's internalized idea of his character, he still comes back for Sonic.

Even if he only comes back to join the fight so he can give Sonic another chance to pursue his (Nine's) goals, his coming back feeds right back into Sonic's pre-existing bias. After all, he knew Nine would come, didn't he?

Let's even go further into S2. Sonic learns that Nine got captured, and Nine makes this clear as well. He tells Sonic that he's going to use his vantage point to work the council from the inside. Both are aware of how dangerous it is for the Chaos Council to have access to so much shard energy. From the little contact Sonic has with Nine during most of this season, Nine situates himself as Sonic's inside helper and giving him direction. This is why he believes him when "Nine" leads them into the Yoke for a trap, and that's why he believes the real Nine when he leads him through the Yoke building in a plan to get rid of Chaos Sonic.

To Sonic, Nine always comes through for him, whether it's for fighting, giving him insider information, or giving him directions/plans/helping things make sense to him.

If Sonic just let himself see it, he would notice that Nine doesn't really care about anyone else but himself and Sonic, and he would know what Nine's actual goals were. Assuming that Nine naturally followed his same goals and acts regarding other people "like the real Tails would", that was Sonic's folly. That's where he was being naive and only taking in evidence that fit his bias of Nine as a good person.

But that doesn't change the fact that Nine did help people out, did help out Sonic. He prioritized his own goals over others' well-being in E6 of S1, and when he left Renegade, Rusty, and Rebel behind, but he did not do so without hesitation. It doesn't change the fact that he helped Sonic out and that Sonic had no reason to believe Nine was using him for his own purposes, because even when Nine made his true character and his goals clear, he always genuinely wanted Sonic at his side. And it doesn't change the fact that even when Nine was frustrated at Sonic, he still stuck up for Sonic. He still convinced the Chaos Council not to kill him outright. He still risks his position and safety to help Sonic, even in the face of being killed for doing so. He feels guilt and remorse for being the reason Sonic was led into a trap and attacked by Chaos Sonic. He expresses this guilt to the Chaos Council (as they jab and jeer and he goes "what have I done?"), and he expresses it to Sonic, who reiterates the trust he has in Nine.

What I'm getting at here is that Sonic’s problem was always how he didn't fully see Nine as he was, and how he just assumed Nine would go along with whatever he thought and wanted. Nine's criticism at the end of S2 was not a baseless one. However, his problem was never that he trusted Nine. No matter the place his trust in Nine began from, Sonic has never had any reason to distrust him, and, in fact, only grew to trust him more over time and Nine helped him out and proved that he cared about his well-being.

Sonic thinks Nine will go along with his goals because he's "just like Tails" and kind of assumes so.

Sonic sees "the good" in Nine and trusts that Nine is his friend because he's gotten to know Nine a bit better over time. Actions speak loud, and it says a lot that Nine continues to aid him and very specifically wants to be with him.

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Now, in the interest of not going on for too much longer, I'm not going to go piece by piece through every Nine scene to dissect exactly who he is as a person and why. Nine's exact character is an essay for another time. So for now, let's keep in mind just what we can see of Nine in the show (and in contrast to what other characters think of him).

I'm going to pose a question or two. Has Nine the Fox been secretly evil all along? Has everyone else been seeing the signs while Sonic has been blind because he doesn't want to believe "Tails" could be evil?

And now, from what we've gone over so far, here's some of what we know about Nine:

Nine isn’t the type to hurt people for no reason or out of malicious intent. He attacks in self defense and generally just wants to be left alone. Thus, if you leave Nine alone, he won't go out of his way to mess with you.

He doesn’t care about others to an extent. If he's already involved in an event, he will help out if people are in danger. However, he always pursues his goals first. He ultimately hesitates when he sees Rebel, Renegade, and Rusty captured, but ultimately chooses to secure making it out alive and with the shard over risking losing either to assist these three.

He cares very deeply about Sonic. Even when he's clearly frustrated or disappointed or says that he's not friends with Sonic, his actions show otherwise. He wanted to build a new home with Sonic, and he risked his own well-being to help Sonic in S2.

He trusts Sonic back. He believes in his ability to overcome anything, even when the Chaos Council is throwing more and more terrible robots at Sonic and trying to convince Nine that it's not worth putting faith in him.

Others actually try to convince both Sonic and Nine during the runtime of S1 and S2 that the other shouldn't/can't be trusted, and that it's idiotic to place their trust in each other. These are scenes that genuinely end up showing that each plans to stay on the other's side and features them sticking up for each other.

Nine doesn't care about others, but not in a malicious manner. He aspires to be left alone and to his own devices, to which he will leave others alone and to their own devices. Even when he's alone and not in Sonic's presence, he never expresses a wish to exert control over the shatterverse and to be its god (essentially trying to make it all better). He only wants to create his ideal home with Sonic away from everything that hurt him.

He rejects the idea that he is exactly like Tails.

He actively seeks and even becomes smug/happy when he gets Sonic's attention. Being considered Sonic's friend or even a best friend is important to him.

The only ulterior motive he ever presents in helping out Sonic is when doing so allows him to get the home he desires, a desire that he includes Sonic in on for the bulk of the runtime. Essentially, he sees Sonic as a collaborator in a goal that includes them both.

So now, I pose the question to you reading this. Has Nine the fox been secretly evil all along?

Personally, I think not. He's not a "good person", but to be evil one has to have a specific kind of malicious intent. You can argue that the Chaos Council are evil because they act in self interest, knowingly oppress the mobians in New Yoke, and don't care what they have to do or who they have to kill to get what they want. They are aware of what they are doing and that they are hurting people, and actively choose to do "evil" deeds because they want to.

Nine acts in his own self interest, he doesn't go out of his way to be a hero to others, he doesn't care what becomes of the other shatterspaces, but he doesn't go out of his way to just oppress or hurt people. He doesn't attack people or leave them to die for the enjoyment of it. He's not outright acting evil with intentions to commit evil deeds, but he never claims to be a hero either. He's a morally grey fox who acts in his own self interest who just wants a real home, and just wants to be safe.

But all in all I ask this to you because I wonder genuinely. What of Nine's actions during these two seasons betray that he's just "what if Tails was evil"? Does acting in one's self interest or selfishly, even if you believe it's for a good cause and if you don't go out of your way to hurt people, make you an inherently evil person?

Has everyone else been seeing the signs while Sonic has been blind because he doesn't want to believe "Tails" could be evil?

Renegade, Rebel, Shadow, etc. They all don't trust Nine.

But with I've gone over so far re:their povs and what they've seen and know of Nine, have all of these people been seeing something Sonic has been missing? Have they not just been doing the same thing Sonic has been (in this case, forming an idea of them based upon first impressions and continuing to paint that person in a specific light because of how their continued experiences with that person fit their pre-existing biases)? They've had less run ins with Nine than Sonic has. What makes their gut instincts and povs more valuable than Sonic's pov of Nine (or the chaos council in s1 and s2 for that matter)?

What is it even that they're seeing that Sonic is missing? Is it that Nine cares more about creating a home within the Grim than saving people or being a hero, or even more than some goal of bringing back Green Hill (even at the expense of the shatterverse and his life)?

Sure, Sonic doesn’t want to believe Nine could be evil. Heck, he doesn't even want to believe that his idea of Nine as someone who would put his life on the line for those in danger and help people when he can is false.

But what? What exactly is it that he's missing? What are the "red flags" Sonic is "ignoring" in these two seasons that "prove" Nine has been evil all along? What was Sonic missing that proves Nine was always planning on betraying him?

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It's all food for thought my friends.

Anyways, if you've read up to this point, thank you so much! I know it's a long one, but it means a lot to me that you'd take the time to read my thoughts and analysis. In the end, the point of this essay is that I implore you all to think of how the characters see each other. The creators put genuine thought into these characters, how they act based on what happens to them, and how they act based upon what they could possibly know from their povs. I implore you to consider why certain characters assert things they do. I implore you to think why Nine would have betrayed Sonic at the end of S2, why Sonic would have trusted him, and for what reason other characters may not have trusted him. I implore you to think of Nine not as a twist villain, but to think of how he actually is and what might push a person to this point.

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

#sonic prime #sonic the hedgehog #shadow the hedgehog #the chaos council #mr dr eggman #dr done it #dr babble #dr deep #dr don't #renegade knucks #rebel rouge #sonic prime season 2 #sonic prime season 1 #nine sonic prime #miles nine prower #nine the fox #essay time #i just be ramblin #Fun fact! While I have been wanting to write this essay for a while‚ I actually finally broke down and wrote it BECAUSE it hit me again tha #Shadow missed the entire breaku– I mean. Uh. He missed most of the scene where Nine and Sonic broke u– I mean #uh dissolved their friendship. I was just consumed with thoughts over Shadow missing so much context even while I was seeing people assert #that Shadow knew what was happening regarding Nine all along #Oh also. Yes I have seen season 3. However‚ I wrote most of this up before S3 came out. So this essay only covers up to the end of season 2 #Maybe at some point I'll make a reblog or a second post where I do the same thing I did here but for the characters in S3 and how #they view Nine.#long post #Also if you've just read the post and You'd like to read more in depth looks on how Nine and Sonic see each other and why they would‚ I'd #give my Sonine prime series a shot. Yes it's focused on the shippy aspect‚ by a shipper‚ but one main purpose of it is to present the #complexities of these characters and just how integral understanding their general relationship/importance to each other is to the show #(romantic‚ platonic‚ whatever)

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