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bigskydreaming · 4 years ago

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Hello, hello, tis I, your friendly neighborhood ‘dude who is obsessed with people making jokes and insults out of Dick’s name’ back with another episode of Why No But Seriously Why!

In today’s episode, we’re going to focus on the fanon of the swear jar. That thing ordained by Alfred that makes many an appearance in fics and headcanons....including ones that also show Jason and/or others calling Dick a Dickhead and other things all willy nilly and suchlike and forthwith.

How does this track, asketh I? Does Alfred provide exemption clauses for making fun of your brother, to the others? Does Alfred not consider making crude insults out of the name Dick to be a swear? Does Alfred, a born Brit, hailing from the land of the “We’ve Been Calling Richards ‘Dicks’ For Longer Than The Rest Of You Have Been Calling Them Rich’s,” not consider the fascination with making penis jokes out of the name of a child he’s helped raised from the age of EIGHT to be uncultured, crass and frankly unacceptable in any house he resides in?

I’m just saying, does it really make sense, and is the risk of pulling readers out of your story if they’re NOT amused by the jokes made of his name really worth whatever it is you feel is added to a story BY making the same old jokes about Dick’s name?

As I’ve said many times before....Dick Grayson? Fictional character. Has no feelings that actually need protecting....OUTSIDE of fiction. Making jokes about his name from beyond the fourth wall, just people commenting on a fictional character’s name? Go wild, go crazy, have a freaking Bacchanalia. Truly does not matter, if you ask me.

But IN universe? IN fiction? Totally different story, because look what those jokes require or make assumptions out of:

1) That Dick truly has no protective or defensive feelings whatsoever about his childhood nickname, and genuinely feels nothing about people habitually taking his choice to keep it as an invitation to insult or mock him.

1b) That Dick doesn’t in any way ever perceive peoples’ insistence on associating his name MORE with the insults and penis jokes than they do with it just being a name, to in any way be a slight against his beloved parents, of the “well they should have known better than to call him that” variety.

1c) That Dick has no negative feelings whatsoever about the fact that even his close friends and family regard his name as being no more worthy of respect or being ‘offlimits’ than the average Gothammite or public citizen might regard it, despite the fact that his close friends and family are perfectly aware of the public’s history of looking down on Dick for his origins and thus you’d think would WANT to appear different than them in Dick’s eyes.

1d) That Dick has never at any point expressed anger, frustration or bitterness that he can’t even have his name respected without even loved ones superimposing their own associations on top of it, no matter what it means to HIM.

2) That Alfred truly has no opinions whatsoever of the other charges in his care disrespecting Dick’s name and its origins stemming from his first parents.

2b) That Alfred has never expressed this opinion to any of them or made his displeasure about such jokes known.

2c) That Alfred doesn’t find it disappointing that the rest of the family and associated friends and allies seem disinclined to separate themselves from the general public’s opinions of Dick’s name by regarding it with a little more respect as at least a sign that they regard Dick himself with a little more respect than the general public.

3) That Jason or none of Dick’s other friends or family have never taken the initiative to wonder for themselves how Dick might actually feel about the frequent jokes or insults, and if shockingly, he might not actually be fond of them.

3b) That Jason or Dick’s other friends or family have chosen not to care or respect the opinions of Dick and/or Alfred or anyone else who states or suggests that these jokes or insults aren’t welcome.

4) That none of Dick’s other friends, be they Titans, or Uncle Clark, or siblings like Cass or Damian or frankly anyone, ever speak up in defense of Dick’s name and suggest that there’s a significant lack of respect around it and thus around him, that they personally take a very dim view of. (Even when Jason’s best friends include Dick’s former fianceé and own longtime BFF).

5) That nobody has ever bothered to think that only EVER being addressed by some form of insult by even his own siblings might possibly have a slightly demoralizing effect on someone’s self-esteem over time.

5b) That nobody has ever bothered to think that making sexual jokes about his name and thus innately sexualizing Dick from even his earliest days in Gotham, when coupled with the hyper-sexualized stereotypes people often apply to Romani individuals and further coupled with the suggestive rumors surrounding Bruce’s reasons for taking in a young boy, might possibly have contributed over time to Dick having an extremely skewed view of himself as an innately sexualized being no matter what he actually did in terms of sexual behavior.

I mean.....there’s more. If I felt like it.

But the point is......there’s a LOT of implicit assumptions that creep in alongside the seemingly harmless jokes and insults surrounding Dick’s name, the second you start to really focus in on how it might appear from his POV....IF you include even just the possibility that he DOESN’T like it.

EDIT: Also, lots of people have pointed out that its just sibling culture to make fun of a sibling in ways that you wouldn’t be okay with someone outside the family making the same jokes. And this is absolutely true! BUT. My issue here and why I don’t think the Dickhead jokes fall under this umbrella, is because I can say in my experience being from a blended family, and from what I’ve discussed in the past with other kids from blended families....there are ‘rules’ about this sort of thing, when you have adopted siblings, and the one near-universal truth that I’ve always found is that anything that stems from an adopted sibling’s first family, the one you do NOT share with them, is absolutely off limits. You mock them for something that originated outside your family, you’re the asshole, because at that point, you’re literally no different from outsiders to your current family making fun of that sibling. That ‘joke’ is not YOURS to make or share in, if you do not have the history with the thing you’re basing the joke on, that your sibling has with it. Shared history is the entire basis of siblings being able to mock each other while still citing solidarity against outsiders, and in adopted families, there absolutely are elements of each others’ lives that YOU are the outsider to, and it absolutely falls on you to respect that just as you’d want your sibling to respect the same of you in turn. If Jason absolutely would not be okay with Dick or anyone else making jokes about Catherine or his life with her, he should not be okay with making jokes about Dick’s name, circus origins, or other aspects of his life that stem from or call back to his time with his first family. The same holds true of all the others as well.

The other aspect of this name-calling not falling under the excuse-umbrella of just being typical sibling culture is its entirely one-sided. Show me the tendency where Dick responds to these everpresent jokes or insults by even light-heartedly calling Jason and the others insults like Hey Asshole, or Dumbass or anything like that. When things are entirely one-way, the impression given is not that of a camaraderie of back-and-forth. It becomes just one person or multiple people punching down in a way they feel confident from experience the other person will NOT respond in kind, which gives them an outlet for venting frustration, resentment or aggravation which risks them nothing, because they KNOW Dick won’t retaliate, and at that point that exchange becomes something very different from a general sibling back-and-forth....because there’s no ‘back.’ What you end up with at that point is literally just hostility, no matter if more mild than other cases, and a situation where one sibling is simply taking ADVANTAGE of the opportunity afforded by another sibling’s good nature and refusal to engage in hurt feelings even while you feel free to cause those feelings in them. And that’s just not a good look. Its just not. And even if you find those exchanges humorous yourself as a writer or a reader, you might want to keep in mind that to plenty of other readers, its making even the characters you like and INTEND to be liked, just....come across as kinda not cool assholes instead.

END OF EDIT.

And here’s the other point:

Its not really about his name, and never has been.

His name is simply emblematic of how EASY it is for people to fall into the trap of just....choosing to overlook Dick’s POV entirely, the second its pitted against other characters and what they might gain from their POV....even if that ‘gain’ is as simple and basic as the slight moment of humor Jason gets from making a joke or mocking insult out of Dick’s name.

Here, let me present this another way:

Every single person alive has SOMETHING they get defensive or protective about. SOMETHING that they’re like no, this is offlimits to people, this is not for their consumption, their entertainment, its not for THEM to take and twist into something other than what it is for ME, because its MINE. This is basic human nature. EVERYONE has this feeling about SOMETHING that’s particular to them.

And with Dick, most of the things that we’re generally given to view him being protective or defensive about are either almost more about other people than him - such as being protective of his family members - or else, they’re things that he’s not ALLOWED to be purely defensive or say, territorial about.

Like for instance, the name Robin.

Think about how Robin is pretty much one of the ONLY things Dick is largely deemed to be defensive or proprietary about.....BUT how that’s also largely used NOT to have him wholly in the right for feeling that way.....but to put him in conflict with the other Robins, given that they also have strong feelings about the name regardless of its origins, and its not solely Dick’s anymore.

Now here’s my question:

If for example, you go with the take that Robin was Dick’s mother’s name for him, and that’s why Dick is so protective and defensive of that name.....why would he be any LESS protective or defensive about his mother AND father’s OTHER name for him....given that the only possible reason for him TO stick with the name Dick all throughout adulthood, is that its the form of his name they referred to him by, and thus, clearly, it DOES carry emotional significance for him?

See what I’m saying?

Why is it, that the only time so many people see Dick laying a claim to something, being defensive or protective of something that’s HIS, standing up for HIMSELF.....is when the waters are murky, when its not a clear cut case of him being wholly in the right, when it pits Dick against someone else and says both are at least somewhat valid?

Why is it so RARE to see people imagine Dick putting his foot down in defense of himself, in defense of something that’s HIS.....where its 100% crystal clear that he has every right and reason in the world to feel this way, where there’s no doubt whatsoever that he’s on the correct side of thinking “this is mine and I get to say this”?

Even about something as simple and basic as his own name?

And why is it the only time we seem to see people sticking up for Dick or weighing in on his behalf, its in the case of extreme actions like him having been raped or abused? Why are there hardly any stories of people looking at alleged family and friends bitching about Dick or heaping insults on him or his capabilities and saying hey, he’s been doing this while most of us were sitting in middle school detention, you could show him some respect? Why do none of the people who value and respect Dick so highly ever seem to weigh in like THAT in stories?

My challenge, should you choose to accept it, is just to look at the above list of possible reasons why Dick might not be thrilled about how people use his name....and just IMAGINE what it would look like, if Dick just said to another character....”Hey. Could you cut that out. I would appreciate it if you didn’t do that.” Even just “I really don’t like that.”

How does a scene like that go? One where Dick is wholly and completely justified in putting his foot down, in feeling that someone is overstepping or paying him an insult or a disservice?

We hear all the time in fandom about how in the name of ‘humanizing’ Dick and ‘making him more relatable’ some people focus overly much on emphasizing his flaws, his alleged temper, his secretiveness, etc.

I’d like to argue that flaws are not actually the only staple of humanity. Risking making a character more dislikable is not actually the only way to make them feel more human or relatable. THIS is another way to do that. Make them defensive, proprietary, territorial, even prickly.....but with REASON. With CAUSE. With JUSTIFICATION. Because people are ALLOWED to be, when people are being a - all irony intended - total dick to them.

And there is a long, LONG history in fanfics, of people being exactly that to Dick, and him just....smiling.

EXCEPT for when his choice NOT to smile, and to actually take offense and push back......pits him against another character but with the other character usually being granted just as much right and reason to not give way.

So? I’m saying you have right here a perfect example of how to flip the script on that. To make it abundantly clear that Dick has just as much right to put his foot down with even people who love and care about him and say hey, you’re doing something I don’t like, that in fact even hurts me, and I want you to stop.

Why not use it? Why does there always seem to need to be an ARGUMENT about whether or not Dick is in the right to feel wronged in some way.....when its so abundantly clear that he’s given no shortage of reasons for that in practically every other fic?

And consider.....if you’ve never previously entertained the idea that Dick might take offense to how people treat his name, or feel defensive about it......what else might you be overlooking that he could feel that way about, and is there any reason why you think you tend not to view Dick as being defensive of HIMSELF and things that are uniquely his?

*Shrugs* Just food for thought, mayhaps.

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thedreadvampy · 4 years ago

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ok the thing I'm struggling to find words for in my mind tonight is. a deep discomfort with the framing that complex relationships to sexuality and gender are something exclusive to queerness. that cishet people's relationship to sexuality and gender is by definition simple. and that's a tempting idea and like, yeah, there's much less impetus for a cishet person to examine their sexuality and gender. but that doesn't mean there's no complexity to it. and this isn't intended as a Don't Be Mean To The Poor Straights post it's just. observably not true that no cishet person has a complex relationship to sexuality and gender.

queerness is a complicating factor in people's relationship to sexuality and gender - we are made more conscious of the ways we don't fit what's expected, our sexuality and gender is often what is used to justify marginalisation and it comes with a whole host of pain and joy because of that, and the way that queerness is marginalised forces us into direct conversation with our sexuality/gender

but queerness isn't the only complicating factor in people's relationships to sexuality and gender. like as a woman who is pretty Definitely Cis I still have a huge ongoing wrestle with my gender - it's female, but what that means and how that's expressed and how that affects how i move through the world is still complicated and fraught and often messy and contradictory. that doesn't make me trans but it does feel pretty alienating that in a lot of queer spaces there's this implied assumption that the only type of gender complexity is a discovery of non-cisness.

(and tbh a lot of the time that's fair because a lot of people aren't cis and as I say like. it's much easier to Never Have These Conversations (with others or with yourself) if you're cis. so a lot of cis people never really name their gender troubles because they're not brought face to face with them.)

but there are a lot of things that affect your relationship to your gender. for me, I know I'm a woman, but how I'm a woman is a messy question wrapped up in trauma, in misogyny, in bisexuality, in autism, in body image, in the specifics of who I am and how I relate to the world and how I want to be seen and why. and there kind of is a thing in a lot of IRL queer spaces I hang out in where people jump straight to diagnosing me with Trans of Gender if I try to discuss a complex relationship with womanhood, or a desire to present as GNC, or a discomfort with being performed in certain gendered ways. and for a lot of people that is a step on the route but as far as I can tell it's not for me, I've spent many years trying out the shape of different genders because I had got into a headspace that any complexity in my relationship to genders must mean I was Not Cis, and for me it just didn't fit, womanhood remained the best fit. and I don't regret that, I think in an ideal world everyone should push themselves to question their gender and try out and see what good, and some people are just statistically gonna be cis like. it would be a weird numbers game for absolutely nobody's gender and sex to line up.

but I'm getting sidetracked. I was thinking about how cis and het people have the capacity for equally complex relationships to gender and sexuality as anyone else, and why that's important.

(I've never been straight or even thought I was straight, but I have occasionally talked to straight people and like. I have never met anyone, straight or queer, with a simple and uncomplicated relationship to their own sexuality - is it right, is it socially acceptable, there's shame, there's trauma, there's confusion, there's gendered and racialised and ableist baggage)

and like. it isn't that sexuality and gender aren't less of a fraught space for cishet people as a group than for queer people as a group. obviously in a group that faces a history and present of marginalisation and active violence on the basis of sexuality and gender, those are more intense complexities, and because of that there's also more intense joy as well as intense conflict. we are able to build community through marginalisation. we're brought face to face with our complex relationships to ourselves and because we can't ignore it we have built the language and community and frameworks to explore it and revert in it in a way many cis het people haven't.

but.

understanding intersectionality means understanding that as much as the marginalisation of queerness is bound up in the complexity of our relationships to gender and sexuality, so are power structures of race and gender and health and neurodivergence and wealth and class and geography and culture and language and religion and politics and education.

ultimately sexuality and gender are a huge element in how we relate to the world and our bodies and ourselves. and how the world relates to us. and there isn't a person on earth for whom that's 100% simple.

and idk I think a) to pretend that cishet people can't experience their bodies and themselves in a complex way is just a denial of reality, b) it simplifies out the many intersections of identity and power in all of us (even the straightest cisest manliest rich white dude) that make our social and personal identities messy and intricate and c) it gets in the way of us building meaningful intracommunity solidarity through a shared understanding of the beauty and pain and infinite variety of gender and sexuality

also idk. it's weird to me. to me it posits that to be cis, to be straight, to be allosexual and alloromantic, is a default whereas queerness is a deviation. and I just don't believe that, I don't think there's a 'normal' and uncomplicated Default State and then everyone outside it is a complication. I think there's value in embracing that othering in the world we live in, where we need to find strength in anger and in resistance, but I don't think it represents a truth about the world as much as a reclamation of the weapons used against us.

to me it feels similar to the way that white people thinking of ourselves as aracial and everyone else as racialised is an act of unconscious white supremacy. or the way that people are really keen to draw a sharp line between the Disabled Other and the Healthy Normal People. the idea that there's Normal People and Diverse People isn't...good...really? and this is in itself a messy issue because I do think there's a lot of power and value in taking pride in the complexity and thoughtfulness of queer relationships to sex and gender and I don't think there's some great evil in joking at the expense of the privileged. but when that starts to inform your actual serious thinking I think it can be counterproductive because erasing the complexity of cishet identities and acting as if any complexity in relationship to sexuality and gender means someone's Wrong About Being Straight/Cis is kind of reinforcing the otherising of queerness.

ughhhhh this is why I say it's hard to find words. because to me now it sounds like I'm saying 'don't suggest people might be queer' and like. do do that. we're in a world where that space isn't left open for the vast majority of people and straight or not, cis or not, allo or not, I think pretty much everyone benefits from having the space and community and language to have a conversation with their own identity. but that's kind of my thing like that conversation doesn't have a right answer. the conversation needs to have room for a model of straightness and a model of cisness that doesn't immediately slam the door on further exploration.

(also I've mostly been taking about cishet people here but let's be honest it's really a question of cis AND/OR het. one thing I'm finding really difficult at the moment is that there seems to be a lot of conversations about queerness and gender expression which conflate GNCness and a complex relationship to gender exclusively with being trans, and a lot of the time talk about how being a woman and being sapphic affect your relationship to gender are understood as less authentic explorations where they incorporate cis gendered identities. and a lot of discussions about complex cis wlw relationships to gender and womanhood get coopted by terfs who think that because their complex experience of gender is a cis one that means all complex experiences of gender are cis ones being wishfully misinterpreted (this is because TERFs have. no capacity or will to imagine experiences beyond their own, apparently) and that leaves. for me. often very little room to authentically discuss and explore with others my own identity as a cis wlw who uses she/her pronouns and still has a complex relationship to gender. and indeed as someone whose attraction to men (and no it's not straight but it's different-gender) is as textured and complex as her attraction to women. like it's a long way off the top of the list of Things To Worry About but I think about it a lot.)

#another long one tonight folks #sometimes you just gotta braindump when you should be getting ready for bed #and then oops 1am #queer #bisexual #cisgender

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ljblueteak · 4 years ago

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The Lisa Robinson reference to Paul was a pretty obvious joke. A lot of that interview was trolly.

Anon is referring to the Hit Parader ‘75 John Lennon interview with Lisa Robinson, where we get the following exchange:

JOHN: "Yes, all your best friends let you know what's going on. I was trying to put it 'round that I was gay, you know-- I thought that would throw them off... dancing at all the gay clubs in Los Angeles, flirting with the boys... but it never got off the ground."

Q: "I think I've only heard that lately about Paul."

JOHN: "Oh, I've had him, he's no good."

(laughter)

You know, this is one where I really wish I could find audio (if anyone has it, I’d love a link!). It does seem somewhat incredible that Robinson is discussing this rumor in a serious way in a major magazine. However, if she’s joking here, it looks like this is the only joking question in the interview (not that it’s impossible to have a mostly serious interview with one joke question). John jokes a few times (like in his response to this question), but the interview read as pretty serious on the whole, and, imo, nothing other than wondering “would they seriously print a non-joke about this?” marks it as possibly being a joke.

John’s discussion of his immigration status, relationship with George and Paul and Ringo, the price of fame, etc. seems pretty earnest for the most part with a few jokes sprinkled in. I hadn’t read the whole thing until recently, but it’s here and really interesting (I had no idea John had ever said this, for example: “I'm not really interested if I get knighted when I'm seventy. I'll deal with it when it comes. I want it now-- not the knighthood-- I'll take the green card, and a passport, and the cash I earn in the band in my own name. And I'll let my music, or my art, speak for me. If they give me knighthood at age 70 I'll deal with it then. Sir John...")

But! Back to the “rumors about Paul” material. @monkberries suggests 3 compelling possibilities here: “1) there were actual rumors about men [Paul] had had sex with, 2) there were rumors but only because of his looks/mannerisms (standard homophobia) or 3) the interviewer made it up to have something for john to bounce off of”

There’s evidence for option 2 around (i.e. Tony Sheridan’s assumptions about Paul based on stuff like his eyebrows).

And then there’s also Francie Schwartz’s (unreliable) Body Count, which came out in ‘72. In it, she says this about Paul’s marriage to Linda: “This was the third time. He had to make it work, or else he’d go raving queer and kill himself” (92). I think it’s possible some readers would have read “queer” there as referring to sexual orientation (whether Francie intended for it to be read that way in addition to the main intended meaning here idk), and there may have been rumors that sprung up based on that--especially since Francie also apparently suggested she’d found a love letter to Paul from Brian on rec.music.beatles when the internet became a thing. She may have shared this story before the internet age too (I’m not suggesting that Francie is a reliable source--her credibility is seriously questionable--but what she wrote and may have said back then could have served as a basis for rumors. I’d like to find out more about it, as well as the post she wrote--I’ll add it if I find it in the archives). And in terms of “Brian being in love with Paul,” we also have the ‘80 Sheff interview where he asks John about Brian’s having been in love with Paul. Apparently this was a claim that was circulating in “biographies” according to the clip (I’d really love to know where Sheff was getting this from since I didn’t see this in Body Count--though please let me know if I missed it!). It doesn’t look like anyone suggested that Paul had also been in love with or had had a sexual relationship with Brian, but it’s possible, especially given monkberries’ option 2, that people speculated about it.

Then there’s option 3, where Robinson may not have been aware of any rumors about Paul or Paul and Brian and just wanted to jokingly pit Paul against John to see what he’d say about Paul and/or himself. This is a very real possibility, though it’s also possible that Robinson had heard some rumors and used the cover of a joke to see what kind of response she’d get from John. If she was aware of it (and I don’t think there’s evidence she was--I’m very much speculating), she may also have been thinking it would be an interesting question to ask given John’s very jokey ‘74 self-interview where he asks himself about rumors about the nature of his relationship with Paul.

Just in terms of other rumors that were possibly out there that might have made *readers,* especially in the industry or who knew people at Apple, take the “I think I’ve only heard that about Paul” remark seriously (and this would have been something that involved John as well, so Robinson wouldn’t have been seriously saying she’d only heard it about Paul), McCabe and Schonfeld’s ‘72 Apple to the Core appears to include a reference to the “John’s Princess” nickname that Philip Norman (and Yoko Ono) claim had been used to refer to Paul. McCabe and Schonfeld write: “With Yoko present, Paul McCartney’s reign as Lennon’s princess was doomed” (thanks for finding it, @james-winston ) While they don’t explicitly say that this is a nickname or that it’s linked to the desire for a sexual relationship, it sounds, as monkberries says in this post, “like a specific enough turn of phrase that mccabe/schonfeld might have heard someone say it.” And Norman, in his John bio, does explicitly say “John’s Princess” was a nickname for Paul that was linked to what people saw as John’s sexual desire for Paul (though he and Yoko suggest that the desire was only on John’s part). So, if it is the case that people around Apple were characterizing Paul in relation to John as being his “princess” and linking it, at least in part, to the idea that John desired Paul sexually, then it’s possible that, even if McCabe and Schonfeld didn’t say so in print and those around Apple didn’t either, there were rumors/speculation based on their relationship in the industry and some might have taken what could have been a joke question in the Robinson question seriously.

That...got seriously long and there’s a lot we just don’t have answers to (and may never have answers to), but that question in Hit Parader is fascinating to think about in terms of not only what rumors Robinson may or may not have heard but how different readers might have taken it as well.

#anon #john and paul #paul and brian #omg this is an essay but it's a lot of material in one place?#which is good?#maybe?

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s0ym1lk · 4 years ago

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One of the things I think about a lot as a bisexual trans man is how the things I’m ‘allowed’ to say map directly to how people read me as a person.

Pre-transition, I experienced a lot of misogyny due to my life and career choices. I’ve been sexually assaulted twice and was stalked by a supervisor at a previous job. As a passing trans man, people do not assume that I’ve had these experiences (and I don’t blame them for not expecting it - how could they know?). That occasionally puts me in a strange position. For example, I once took a diversity training where the instructor asked a series of questions about different experiences and asked anyone that had had those experiences to stand up. It is VERY uncomfortable to be the only man standing when the question ‘Have you ever been harassed due to your gender at work?’ is asked. (I would like to caveat that the instructor told us standing up was voluntary, that we should only do so if we felt comfortable.)

The experience brought up a lot of different thoughts for me - that my identity is not fundamentally captured in our binary understanding of gender and gendered experiences, that assumptions about gendered experiences leave me isolated from everyone around me, that such attempts at diversity training without space to share your actual experience leads to misunderstanding. It also made me question how much explanation I ‘owe’ to someone when I speak out about my experiences. Speaking superficially, the answer is of course that I don’t owe anyone anything. Speaking more realistically...should I have clarified that my experience should fall into the ‘female’ bucket, because the people harassing me assumed I was female? The instructor’s point was to highlight that women face an issue men largely do not, and by standing but not speaking out, I muddied that point when I could have just explained.

Assuming I’m cool with explaining (which is sometimes true and sometimes not, in that case I had the spoons to stand but not to explain), even that is complicated. Knowledge around trans people and trans issues is not widespread. If I bring up my transness in a discussion, the discussion has to be sidetracked to bring everyone up to speed about what exactly that means. Even if people are familiar, they generally respond as if that’s something that needs to be discussed or something I need to be reassured about, which leads the whole discussion off on a tangent. I remember I was once having a conversation with two people at a party, one man and one woman, and the woman was sharing a pretty personal memory of sexual harassment. I wanted to commiserate because I’ve had the same experience. But commiserating meant sharing my status as transgender, which would have pulled the focus away from her and onto me to explain all that, and she was in the middle of being really vulnerable so of course I didn’t want to do that. That meant that for all intents and purposes, I was isolated from connecting with someone via shared experiences due to my status as transgender and due to other people’s perceptions of my experience. That...sucked.

Professionally, I’ve been involved in many conversations around gendered issues. It is definitely the case that as a man, I can talk about these issues (and be listened to seriously) in a way that women can’t. But to be more clear, that means talking about them as if I’m a cisgender man. Because the value here doesn’t come from me saying ‘I’m a man and yet was sexually assaulted while being perceived as female’, it comes from me pretending to be a cis man and saying, ‘but I still believe women when they talk about the seriousness of sexual assault!’ In fact, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve told my own stories of harassment and misogyny and pretended that it was something that happened to ‘a friend of mine’ instead. Again, I don’t owe it to anyone to pretend to be cisgender in these conversations. I also don’t owe it to anyone to come out as transgender so people have the right context. AND YET, I do feel I have an obligation to say something. So in the end, I still have to choose one of those options. If I don’t, the people around me seeing me stay silent in the face of misogyny are not going to magically know that my silence is due to the complicated nature of my gender history. They are going to see me as a cisgender man allowing misogyny to happen. I want anyone seeing what they think is a cisgender man failing to stand up to misogyny to call that person out. Equally, I do not want to be called out because someone’s perception of me is not correct.

Joking has also become vastly more complicated. I never realized how much joking I did that relied specifically on someone being able to see me and make assumptions about my identity in order to understand the joke (which, to be fair, isn’t just a gender or sexuality issue....the other day, a coworker I’d only ever chatted with online sent me the message ‘thanks you in Asian’, which had me preparing for a very serious conversation until I saw him in person and realized he was literally referring to himself as an Asian guy). I could very easily make a sarcastic joke now intending to call out misogyny that would come off as me being sexist towards women.

Same deal for sexuality. I made a joke today at work that might have seemed homophobic if it were coming from a straight person. I am not a straight person. My coworkers don’t know this. The guy I said the joke to, to the best of my knowledge, is a straight guy. If someone overhears that joke and feels offended because they are LGBT or on behalf of LGBT people, does that mean I did something wrong? And yet...am I required to censor the way I talk about my own sexuality in order to not seem like I’m being homophobic? Do I have to come out in order to not be perceived as telling homophobic jokes? It becomes a situation where I either censor the way I talk about my own identity to reduce harm, I commit to being true to my identity and perpetuate harm, or I out myself in an attempt to give context but therefore open myself up to discrimination.

The whole subject is complicated. And mind you, I’m not advocating in any way that call-out culture is toxic or flawed with this post. I can and do want people to feel comfortable calling out others for what they perceive to be discriminatory or bigoted behavior, even if that means I end up in the crosshairs. I’m just trying to share some thoughts about how being part of a community in a way that’s not visible can be complex and frustrating to navigate. This is a subject I navigate daily, sometimes multiple times in a day, and it never gets easier.

#transgender #ftm #trans man #trans #bisexuality #ultimately even if my approach is imperfect i try to remind myself that speaking up is doing more than most people do #i really was not prepared for how hard dudes try to convince you to buy into misogyny though #i snapped at a coworker recently for making a trap joke in reference to trans women #i had literally just come from being denied an ID due to having my birth name and gender on a document so i was not in the right headspace #to be gentle in that conversation #and it turns out he thought trap jokes were a silly anime meme and not like #a slur #and i was like great #from this guys perspective i tore into him over a meme that he didn't even know was transphobic

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dearestpartnerofgreatness · 5 years ago

Note

give me your top ten couples in the dramas you've watched and why they're so great

Okay this is gonna be super in depth + full of spoilers so details below the cut to spare y’all scrolling on your phones haha.

IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER:

Chen Qing Qing x Situ Feng (Accidentally in Love, Cdrama) - I love both of these characters so much. Qing Qing is such a bad*ss, and Situ Feng is such a lovable dork. I love how well-matched they are in wit and humor. They are also the best example of enemies-to-friends-to-lovers I’ve seen on any drama so far. The way their bond developed was so natural. I also LOVE how obsessed they are with each other while also remaining independent. They are physically affectionate in a believable way that you don’t see often in dramas.

Nam See Hee x Yoon Ji Ho (Because This Is My First Life, Kdrama) - This couple is just so soft. They’re also so dang compatible--they genuinely enjoy each other’s company/habits and support each other without jealousy or drama. I appreciate how they subvert traditional drama stereotypes-- See Hee is blunt + honest without being mean, and Ji Ho prioritizes her work + friendships just as much as her relationship. Also, they have one of the most beautiful, sexy, realistic first kisses in any drama ever!!! THEY ACTUALLY MOVE THEIR LIPS AND EVERYTHING.

Woo Soo-Ji x Ma Sang-Goo (Because This Is My First Life, Kdrama) - What do we love more than a cool, confident, feminist heroine? A man who adores and supports a cool, confident, feminist heroine. Their scenes together range from sexy, to sweet, to tender, to comedic. Both actors bring so much depth and range to their individual characters, thereby creating what is one of the most interesting and shippable beta romances (imo).

Wang Qiang Wei x Wang Qiang Da (Lion Pride, Tdrama) - THESE TWO. The jokes, the eye contact, the mystery solving--everything about the way they interact is just so CUTE. The scene right after they’ve kissed and are hugging in the street (when Si De tries to prevent Tsiao Tie from seeing them) is just bursting with intimacy and affection. They strike the perfect balance between a youthful, innocent romance and a more domestic, mature romance.

Lian Si De x Tie Bu Fan (Lion Pride, Tdrama) - What I love most about these two is how similar they are. On the outside, they’re confident, stars of their workplaces, and popular in the dating world. But at their core, they are loyal, selfless, hard on themselves when they make mistakes, and the two best friends anyone could have. Watching them fall for each other amongst the crazy circumstances of the mystery plotline endeared them to me so much. Also, that scene with the umbrella is A+ ROMANCE. Still mad they never got to kiss.

Pi Yanuo x Du Zifeng (Bromance, Tdrama) - If you want a couple with red-hot passion, you don’t need to look further than these two. The sexual tension between them had me screaming “JUST KISS!” at my TV practically every episode. Beyond that, the level of trust + loyalty was beautiful--they really were equal partners in the relationship. Also, I LOVE that the show explicitly stated that Du Zifeng’s attraction for Yanuo went beyond her gender, and he would love her the same no matter how she identified. (Also, that final scene in the hotel hallway is, to this day, the hottest scene I’ve ever witnessed in a drama.)

Liao Guang Chao x Zi Han (Bromance, Tdrama) - At first, this couple felt more like a “pair the spares” situation for me. But the more time they spent together, the more I appreciated the humor of their moments. By the show’s end, I fell in love with how they bring out the best in one another + help each other grow. A-Chao challenges Zi Han to rethink her assumptions, manage her temper, and be less selfish. Zi Han emboldens A-Chao and inspires him to be more hard-working, brave, and determined. The actors are also comedic gold individually and as a pair, so that helps them slip into the top 10.

Lu Yang x Lin Jingxiao (A Love So Beautiful, Cdrama) - These two were the real otp of ALSB, lemma tell ya. First of all, Jingxiao’s super cool: feisty, intelligent, and ambitious, but also a little too aggressive sometimes. Lu Yang’s obvious adoration of her, as well as his charming, loyal, humorous, and slightly scaredy-cat personality, made them such a fun and lively pair. I also appreciated their “you exasperate me but also I would die for you” dynamic and how that continued after they became official--I can’t stand when a drama has a couple get together and then changes one of their personalities to hide the fact that they just wouldn’t work (*cough* *cough* like they did with the main couple for this show).

Oh Dong-baek x Hwang Yong-sik (When the Camellia Blooms, Kdrama) - I am 100% on board with this pair!!! I ADORE their honesty and communication. So many dramas are exasperating bc their leads constantly misunderstand each other or can’t explain what they want, but not these angels! They excel at compromising to suit the other’s needs/wants and find ways to show love through meaningful actions. The level of care and nurturing is so lovely. Also, the actors have amazing chemistry--they genuinely look so happy together! (Where can I get me a Yong-sik???)

Fei Fei x Wen Li (Well-Intended Love 2, Cdrama) - The only thing that got me through season 1 of this show, tbh. I will say that I liked the development of their relationship in season 2 a lot more. Unlike a lot of other couples, the awkward moments in their relationship came off as comedic rather than cringey. Their meet-cute at the bar and the scene where Wen Li cleans Fei Fei’s house while she sleeps showed how sweet and genuine their connection was. I’m glad they gave them that shift where Fei Fei realized she had to go after him and put her all in the relationship too--Wen Li was such an angel, so I'm glad he got to be the one who was romanced after spending so much time romancing her.

LET IT BE KNOWN that I wanted to include Ji Jia Wei x Xiao Tong from the Tdrama Murphy’s Law of Love on this list, because Jia Wei is my favorite male lead of all the dramas I’ve watched so far. Unfortunately, the consistent wishy-washy-ness of Xiao Tong prevents me from doing so. I still can’t get over how she constantly misinterpreted what was happening in their relationship and refused to communicate DESPITE LITERALLY BEING A DATING EXPERT.

Also honorable mention to Cha Soo-hyun x Park Hae-young (Signal, Kdrama) because although they aren’t a canon couple, they clearly have intense chemistry considering how much they invade each other’s space, and their intense emotional connection coupled with what a dream team they are as crime-solvers just gets me, y’know? If the season 2 rumors are true, I’ve got my fingers crossed for them to go canon!!

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xsixxx · 5 years ago

Text

Bad Influence, Chapter Six

Authors note: Ok so I really struggled with this chapter, hence my major delay, but thank you for bearing with me! 🙏🏼 So this is a super long one (for me) & I’ve just finished writing this at 5am after staying up all night, so I’m sorry for any mistakes etc. Also this is my first time writing a sex scene & I’m so super nervous & awkward about it, so please go easy on me 😂 Feedback is always welcome 🖤

Warnings: A bit angsty & some major smutttt but not the smut you want, that’s coming later (pun intended)

Tags: @triplehaitches @freddiessmallnipples @queen-crue @scarecrowmax @lovesick-heart0 @littlesunnymoon @80sheart-strings @cranberribread @inthebackofmycarlaytheirbodies @deaconsroger @zoenicoles @crazysaladchopshop @ggorehorror @lunamadhatter99 @justtryingtoovercome @chaoticvybe @you-know-im-a-dreamer @eightiesrockbaby @valentines-in-london @xrosegoldwolfx @sukimousepaw @lilypetite88 @this-blog-must-be-the-place

(Couldn’t find a suitable gif, so here’s one of the two stars of this chapter)

((I wanted a gif of that scene in the dirt when Vince is fucking that chick in the dressing room right before his gf takes back his leather pants but I couldn’t find one 😭😂))

Spring ‘83

I checked my make up in the mirror for the 10th time in as any minutes, pouting my lips & fluffing up my platinum blonde hair.

“Fuck Beth, you’d think Gene Simmons himself was coming back from this tour the way you’re dolling yourself up.”

I scowled at Sophias reflection in the mirror, her irritation evident as she stood in the doorway with one hand on her leather-clad hip, drumming her fingers impatiently. “Ew, no. Gene Simmons, what is wrong with you?!” I laughed.

“Really, you don’t see it?” She puzzled, furrowing her brow with an amused look on her face. “The make up always kinda did it for me..” She trailed off, giggling to herself before snapping out of her momentary daydream. “Anyway, can you just hurry your ass up, we’re gonna be late for work & Paul is already on our case!” She finished, referring to our boss.

“He caught us drinking with the guys once on shift, he’s hardly on our case.” I shrugged nonchalantly.

“Yeah, but he’s heard they’re coming back & he’s already on edge about the whole thing, he knows how they get & he’s planning on amping up security to keep them in check. I mean, they have just been kicked off of a tour with Kiss for bad behaviour, for Christs sake!” I rolled my eyes at her, always the sensible one nowadays. Sophia was right, of course. Mötley Crüe had become infamous on the Sunset Strip. They’d drink, fight & fuck, usually in that order, anything in sight & they showed no signs of stopping. The band was on their way up & people knew it, so everywhere they went, trouble, & girls, followed. And tonight, they were on their way back to the Whisky.

“How do I look, honestly?!” I asked nervously, turning to Sophia & gesturing at my outfit, smoothing out my high waisted acid wash mini skirt & fiddling with the collar of my leather jacket awkwardly.

“Well, if Vince doesn’t fuck ya, I will.” She winked, laughing. I smiled weakly before blowing her a kiss & turning back to check myself over once more, messing with my hair & trying to pretend I couldn’t feel the butterflies fluttering around in my stomach.

“Babe,” Sophia started gently, frowning “why are you stressing so much? It’s not like this is anything new.”

“I don’t know, it’s been like a month since I last saw him & he’s probably slept with god knows how many girls on the tour & I-”

“Beth, they played like 5 shows, how much damage could they do, really?!” I looked at her with raised eyebrows, laughing with amused disbelief at her naivety. Did she know them at all?

She caught sight of my face. “Ok, ok, you’re right, carry on.”

“Look, I know there’s nothing serious between us & I’m fine with that, honestly, I am. But I just don’t want to look like another groupie to him.. I - I just wanna look good, ok?” I rambled, realising I was sounding way more defensive than I was intending.

Sophia sensed my nerves. “Well, you make one fine ass groupie, Vince won’t be able to resist you.” She said playfully, before pausing, a slow smile appearing across her plump, pink lips. “& neither will Nikki.” She added smugly, her eyes twinkling mischievously.

I let out a high pitched, fake laugh at yet another one of her goddamn Nikki jokes. “You’re so fucking funny.” I said sarcastically, rolling my eyes. “When are you going to let that go?!”

She shrugged. “When you guys do us all a favour & fuck so we don’t have to be around your obvious sexual tension.”

“Soph, I hate the guy, he’s an rude, arrogant narcissist & I’ve got more sexual tension going on with Mick than I do with that asshole!”

“Hey now, don’t drag poor Mick into your fucked up Nikki fantasy!” Sophia chortled. “You can deny it all you like babe, but I’m your best friend & I know you, you love to hate that guy because secretly, except not really secretly, you wanna screw his narcissistic brains out.” She finished, grinning widely at her fabricated conclusion.

I scowled at her once again, tired of hearing these assumptions constantly over the last few months. “God, can we just stop with this now please?!” I begged, turning back to the mirror, stressing more than before. “Maybe I should go change..”

“No!” Sophia said quickly, grabbing my hand & pulling me towards the front door. “You look great, Nikki is gonna love it- I mean Vince.. Whichever one it is you’re trying to impress. Now can we please just go?” She begged, exasperated eyes looking pleadingly at me.

I sighed & followed her out, the anticipation of the night ahead lingering in the air as I shut the door behind me.

*Later, at Whisky A-Go-Go*

I took a long drag on my cigerette & exhaled the smoke into the brisk, refreshing breeze that swept through the night sky. I savoured the moment, knowing that, in a few minutes, whatever band was playing tonight would finish their set & the crowd would surge back to the bar, impatiently demanding their drinks & trying by any means to gain my attention, whether it be just to order or try to, usually unsuccessfully, hit on me.

The back door swung open as Sophia stepped out, armed with trash bags, distracting me from my moment of peace.

“What are you doing out here?” She asked, spotting me hiding on the other side of the dumpster. I waved the lit cigetette clutched between my fingers wordlessly in response. She frowned. “You don’t smoke.”

“Well I always end up smoking with the boys & I just figured I’d use it as an excuse to get some peace before the rush kicks off.” I shrugged, ignoring her obvious disapproval. Sophia had perfected her judgmental stare over the past 6 months, every time she saw me sniff a line of coke or come home tipsy. It’s not like she didn’t partake, in fact, she was almost as wild as Mötley were, keeping Tommy on his toes. But Soph couldn’t help but look at me the way I knew most people that knew me did; like I was some fragile, innocent being that needed protecting. I’m the good one, the well behaved child, the straight A student, the protective big sister, the motherless daughter with the overbearing father. I’ve spent my life being exactly what everyone expected of me. The boys were the only people that didn’t make me feel that way &, for a night every week or so, when I got to party with them, it was fun not being who everyone thought I should be & just being whoever I wanted to be for the night.

“It’s a shit habit to have,” Soph mumbled, pulling out a cigerette from her almost empty packet, placing it between her lips & lighting it. “You’re better off without it babe. Quit whilst you’re ahead & all that.”

“Thanks for advice, mom,” I responded, rolling my eyes as I took another drag.

“Hey, I’ve been meaning to ask, have you finished that paper for Dr Andersons psych class yet?” Asked Sophia, suddenly changing the subject.

“Erm.. You want the truth or..?” I grimaced, knowing I hadn’t even started my essay on the theory of human motivation.

“Beth, girl, come on!” Sophia whined, sounding irritated. “You know if you ask Anderson for another extension, she’s gonna loose her shit with you! You gotta stop slacking..”

I shot her a warning look. “I am not slacking”, I said cuttingly, offended by her words. I’d never been accused of not trying hard enough in my life & I didn’t like it.

Soph looked a little sheepish. “I’m sorry, I didn’t mean it like that, I know how hard you work. It’s just this is the second paper in a row you haven’t prepared for & you’re usual so on it, I’d just hate to see you fall behind because of..” She trailed off.

“Because I’m fucking a Vince?” I spat, suddenly angry.

“No, Beth. Come on, you’re twisting my words now. You know I’m all for you having fun, especially after how everything was for you at home, I don’t blame you for rebelling a bit. But I’m also just looking out for you, you just need to find a balance is all.” Sophia looked embarrassed, obviously regretting her change of subject. I glared at her, watching her chew her lip awkwardly, avoiding my stare. The rational part of me knew she was only trying to be a good friend, but the defensive side to me felt she was trying to shield me from having any fun, treating me like that fragile girl once again & it immediately brought out my inner hostility.

I flicked my cigerette across the alley & stormed past Sophia, catching her shoulder as I did. She whipped round to me, eyes ablaze with shock & anger.

“Excuse me, you did not just shoulder barge me!” She yelled, stunned.

“Why cant you just mind your own goddamn business?!” I screamed back, throwing my hands up in the air with exaggerated exasperation. “You’re supposed to be my best friend, you know everything I’ve been through better than anyone. I’m just trying to enjoy myself, do all the dumb shit I never got to do when I was 18. Why are you treating me like a damn kid?!” I could hear myself arguing like a teenager who’s parents wouldn’t let them out, but I couldn’t help it, I was belligerent.

“Maybe stop acting like a damn kid & people wont treat you like one!” She fired back.

“Fuck this.” I snapped, barging through the door & back into the hot, sticky air of the Whisky. I marched back behind the bar just as the band were playing their last few chords & grabbed a bottle of jack. I quickly poured a shot & necked it, seconds before Paul rounded the corner.

“Where’s the other one?” He asked, rudely.

“I’m here.” Sophia mumbled, rushing back, just as the crowd began shifting its way from the stage to the bar.

“Right, back to work, no more fucking breaks.” Paul spat, pointing at us both before disappearing off to his office, as per usual whenever the bar got busy. I stuck my middle finger up at him as he walked away, directing my anger at him. I heard a chuckle & turned around to see a familiar, dark figure in the sea of gig-goers, his eyes lost behind a mass of black hair, yet somehow I could still feel them trailing along the contours of my body. His lips were curled into his usual, heart-stopping smirk & I found myself catching my breath when I caught sight of him.

“Someone’s in a good mood, I see.”

“Not now Sixx, for fuck sake.” I muttered, taking an order & pouring the drink.

“Have you missed me, Angel?” He asked, flashing me a wicked smile, draping himself over the bar to get a better look at me. I ignored him, tending to customers & refusing to make eye contact. “I’ll take that as a no.” He chuckled, darkly.

“Nikki, I really haven’t got time & I’m not in the mood for your games.” I said sharply, finally looking into his dark, green eyes. My stomach knotted as his gaze burnt through me, reigniting that flame that only he could seem to light. And he knew it.

“What’s wrong, Princess?” He drawled, lazily.

“Can’t you see how fucking busy we are?! I haven’t got time for you!” I snapped at him, dropping a tumbler in my frustration, sending glass scattering in all directions. “Fucking great.” I growled, crouching down to clean it up, my impatience & anger growing more & more by the second, only made worse by Nikki, who was now smiling smugly at me from over the bar. “Unless you’re going to be any help to me, I suggest you leave.” I yelled at him, standing up & charging over to the bin with a dustpan full of broken glass. I took a deep breath as I emptied it, attempting to regain my composure. I turned back & immediately cussed under my breath. Nikki had hopped over the bar & was now talking to customers.

“What are you doing?!” I hissed as I marched back over to him.

“I’m helping you, like you wanted,” he shrugged, an aura of smugness about him, as he took orders.

“What I wanted was for you to go away!”

“See, I don’t think you want that at all.” He responded, sliding past me, his hand brushing against my lower back as we moved around the limited space behind the bar. “I think you’ll take any excuse to be near me.” He whispered in my ear as we crossed paths once again, his hands gripping my hips this time as he navigated past me. Me body reacted to his touch, my heart thrumming as I felt unwanted excitement flood my veins. I snapped to attention, determined not to let him get to me again.

“Well, if you’ve got it all covered here, you wont mind if I take a quick bathroom break, right?” It was my turn to smirk as I walked from behind the bar, seeing his face fall as I turned & sauntered away from him, letting my hips sway a little more than usual as I felt his eyes drop to my ass, as they always did.

I strode into the bathroom stall, locking it behind me, & rested my head on the cool, metal door, breathing sharply. Nikki had a talent for pissing me off & frustrating me in ways I couldn’t explain & tonight was not a good night for it. Between him, Sophia & Paul, I was wound up past the point of no return & the next person that crossed me was going to feel the full force of my pent up rage.

I was working on slowing my breathing when I heard the door to the bathroom open & shut. Within seconds, my head started vibrating as someone rattled the door to the bathroom stall violently, trying to get in.

“Occupied!” I yelled, my voice oozing irritation.

It shook once again, whoever it was clearly not giving up. I took a step back from the door, anger flooding to every inch of my body as my hand flew towards the lock & I wrenched it open. I was ready to hurl cathartic insult after insult at the poor, unsuspecting person that was to be the subject of my blind fury, when a skinny blonde fucker stopped me in my tracks.

Vince stood in the door way of the stall, leaning casually, his tousled blonde hair framing his chilsed face perfectly. He had on brilliant white jeans with rips at the knees & a distressed denim jacket with nothing on underneath & plastered on his face was the biggest, goddamn sexiest grin that immediately calmed my rage & sent my heart racing.

“You having a bad night doll?” He asked, doing his best to feign concern, the corners of his mouth twitching as he tried to hide his smirk. I took a second to drink him in, savouring the sight of him before I grabbed the collar of his denim jacket & pulled him roughly into the cubical with me, knowing exactly how I was going to satiate my temper. I slammed the door shut behind me & turned around to face Vince, pushing him down into a seated position on the closed lid of the toilet. His smirk was from ear to ear by now & there was a hunger in his eyes I wanted to satisfy so damn much. I straddled my legs either side of his, hiking up my denim skirt that was restricting my movement, exposing my strategically chosen lace black underwear. I sat down on his lap & pressed my mouth lightly against his, running my tongue across his plump, lower lip, tasting the remanence of whisky left there, a flavour I’d grown to love. I trailed my lips across his jawline, placing kisses as I went, until my teeth found their way to Vince earlobe, grazing their way along it as subtly began grinding my hips into his lap. He let out a soft, intoxicating groan that made me weak. I craved him.

Vinces fingers had wound their way into my hair & he grabbed a fistful, firmly pulling my head back, exposing my neck to him. I felt his smirk caress my skin as his nipped & sucked his way down my throat, leaving his mark as he went, before running his tongue back up, sending lustful shivers running down my spine. He brushed his lips across my chest as his hands left my hair, gliding their way down the contours of my body & under my shirt, roughly pulling it up & over my head. I felt him grow harder underneath me as he cupped my breasts in his hands, his tongue lightly flicking & caressing my nipples before he gently grazed his teeth along one, causing an involuntary moan to slip out of my parted mouth. I bit down on my lip, desperate to keep quiet, but Vince has other plans. He widened his legs, forcing mine open at the same time & slipped his hand between my thighs. He groaned as he felt my wetness through my lace panties & ran his finger teasingly back & fourth along the damp patch, causing me to squirm.

“Keep quiet for me now, Princess.” Vince teased, raising his eyebrows & smirking as he pushed my underwear to one side & slowly he eased one finger inside me, causing my to stifle a gasp of pleasure. His thumb brushed lazily over my clit, teasing me, driving me crazy with desire. My eyes closed & my head tilted back as he pushed another finger inside, moving them rhythmically at just the right speed to leave me wanting more. I bit down harder on my lip, trying my best to keep a moan from escaping as Vinces speed picked up. I rocked my hips back & forth against his fingers, pushing my lips roughly onto his to keep quiet, moaning into his mouth instead as he tasted my urgency.

Vince pulled my hair back once again, denying me of his lips. There was a look of arrogance dancing in his eyes as that he kept them fixed on mine, watching me intently as he brought me closer to the edge. I held my lower lip firmly between my teeth as his fingers moved faster & his thumb circled my clit in perfect harmony the way he knew drove me crazy, bringing me ever closer to the release I so badly needed.

“Let me see you cum baby.” He demanded, his eyes not leaving mine once, a sly smirk on his irresistible face. His words were all I needed as I reached the edge & came around his fingers.

“Fuck, Vinny, yes!” I yelled breathlessly, not caring who heard me. I felt the waves of pleasure crash around me as Vinces fingers carried on, pushing me to my absolute limits until I couldn’t give anymore & I grabbed his hand to stop him. He gave me a sly, proud smirk as he looked at my exhausted, content expression.

Christ, I needed that.

But Vince wasn’t done with me yet.

He slowly slid his fingers out from my wetness & brought them up to his lips, sucking on them sensually, making my still throbbing pussy tense in excitement.

“You taste so fucking good.” Vince smirked, watching me squirm with lust once again. I felt his rock hard cock constrained in his tight jeans & I rocked my hips into him once again. His smile widened & suddenly his hands were under my ass, picking me up. I wrapped my legs around his waist & buried my hands into his blonde hair, grabbing it & pulling his mouth on to mine. Within seconds, we were out of the cubical & Vince sat me on the basin countertop without a thought as to who might walk in. We didn’t care.

“I want you inside me.” I moaned, hastily undoing his jeans with intense urgency & pulling him towards me. I found my way to Vinces cock & he let out a low groan as I wrapped my hand around it, slowly stroking him up & down.

“I’ve fucking missed you.” He growled. It was my turn to smirk.

Vince pulled away, expertly rolling on a condom with ease, before pulling me panties to one side once again. He rubbed my wetness, as I grabbed his rock hard dick & guided it towards me, using it to tease my entrance, a cocky smile playing on my lips as I watched Vinces eyes grow dark with desire & impatience. His lip parted to complain, but I silenced him by swiftly easing him inside me. We both moaned simultaneously as he pushed all the way in, stretching me out.

Vince groaned as he began thrusting slowly, finding his rhythm. “I forgot how tight your perfect little pussy is.”

I wrapped my legs around his waist, pulling him deeper in to me as he picked up speed, his hips bouncing against mine. “Oh Vinny,” I moaned, raking my nails across his back, leaving my mark on his skin to repay him for the bruises on my neck. The pain caused his pace to quicken, as his hunger for me intensified. He grabbed my one leg & lifted it over his shoulder, giving himself a better angle to fuck me deeper, harder.

I felt the pleasure building once again with each stroke, bringing me closer to orgasm. “Don’t stop.” I panted, digging my nails into his hips. Vince groaned loudly as I started playing with my clit, the hedonism getting too much for us both to withstand. I threw my head back & bit my lips to suppress my moans as best I could as the waves of pleasure started reaching their crescendo.

Vinces strokes became delectably slow & purposeful, each one deeper than the last as we both began our decent into sweet release. Vince gave one last thrust that sent us both over the edge & I came around his cock as he came inside me, his forehead pressed against mine as our duel moans of pleasure filled the bathroom. The perfect harmony.

*Nikkis POV*

How fucking long does it take to have a piss?! I thought angrily, as I pushed open the door to the bathroom, Sophias not-so-polite request that I get “the fuck from behind the bar & go & find Beth” still ringing in my ears.

I heard them before I saw them, but my brain didn’t comprehend what I was hearing until my eyes fell on her.

Beth was sat on the countertop, one leg draped over my frontmans shoulder, the other wrapped around his waist as Vince stood with his back to me. Her fingers were gripping his hair like she was holding on for dear life, her head was titled back in the throws of passion & her face.. Her face was that of an angel, as it always was, but twisted & distorted with sin as I watched her cum before me. Her glossy pink lips were parted as sounds that I wished I was causing left her pretty little mouth. Her forehead was glistening with a light film of sweat, her eyebrows were furrowed & her eyes were clenched shut as she indulged in her release that I so badly wanted to feel.

It was heaven to watch her.

And hell to know that she wasn’t coming for me.

I felt intense, unwarranted jealousy descend over me as I watched the girl that I disliked with such ferocity, but still so badly wanted to demoralise get fucked by one of my best friends. I wanted to feel her nails in my skin as I wrapped my hand around her pretty neck. I wanted to see those big, innocent, doe-like eyes look up at me pleadingly as I brought her close to orgasm, only to stop, making her beg for me to touch her. I wanted to taste her delectable pussy & feel her cum against my tongue, her sweet voice calling out my name as I sucked her clit. God, how I fucking wanted her.

Beths eyes fluttered open & immediately fell on mine, causing me to snap out of my fantasy. I adjusted myself quickly, hoping she wouldn’t see the semi I had rubbing against my tight leather pants.

She seemed shocked & embarrassed to see me standing there in the doorway, yet still somehow she managed to look smug. Guilty, yet satisfied. She shot me a shit eating grin before she kissed Vince, her eyes fixated on mine as she did so.

I let out a loud, purposeful cough that caused Vinny to jump & instinctively pull away from Beth. He looked in my direction & visibly relaxed, shooting me a typically sly Vince Neil smile.

“Oh it’s just you Sixx,” he laughed, buttoning up his jeans as Beth climbed down from the worksurface with as much modesty as possible, adjusting her skirt as she did.

I ignored Vince, my face like stone as I kept my eyes on Beth. “Sophia is looking for you.” I said bluntly.

“Shit yeah, I need to get back.” She said quickly, turning to wink at Vince & give him a peck on the lips. “You have no fucking idea how much I needed that,” I heard her mumble seductively. Vince grinned.

“Anytime Princess.” He drawled. I could’ve punched his arrogant fucking face.

Beth stalked towards me, holding her head high & proud as she pushed past. Vince looked like he was about to say something, but I didn’t stick around to hear what it was. Against my better judgement, I followed Beth, my anger brewing.

“Have fun?!” I snapped at her, letting my frustration show without meaning to.

“Loads.” Beth smiled simply, looking me dead in the eye without hesitation. I felt my anger bubble closer to the surface.

“You know, I’m surprised he hasn’t gotten bored of you yet.” I shot nastily, wanting to rile her up. “Groupies never last long with Vince. You should’ve seen all the sluts her got with on the tour.” I let out a sharp, short laugh, convinced I’d strike a nerve.

“Huh, weird, isn’t it?” She shrugged. “That he always comes back to me. I must do something for him that the other girls don’t.” Her voice dripped with confidence as she walked behind the bar & back to work. “I wonder what it is I have that they don’t..” she finished.

Beth knew exactly what she was doing, she’d known me long enough now to figure out how to push my buttons & her new found arrogance was doing just that. But she wore it well.

I grabbed her arm as she walked past & pulled her in close, my anger & my desire at war inside of me. My lips found Beths & I brushed them against hers in the way that I knew drove her crazy, even if she’d never admit it.

“He’ll never satisfy you like I would, Angel.” I whispered.

Beth swallowed, her confidence visibly shaken & I smiled as I watched her eyes glisten with involuntary desire. I knew she couldn’t resist. “& h-how do you know that?” She stuttered, trying to regain her self-assured composure.

“Because he doesn’t know you like I do.” I mumbled, letting my lips graze hers as I spoke. “I see past your good girl, innocent act. I’ve said it before & I’ll say it again, there’s a little bit of devil in your angel eyes. You don’t want just sex, you want to be fucked, you want to know what it’s like to loose all self control, to be with someone that’ll fulfil your darkest desires, who will indulge your every fantasy. I can please you in ways you couldn’t even begin to imagine, Lizzy. I want to bring out the bad in you.” I finished, my eyes burning into hers with intense, desperate craving that I knew she felt too. She looked at me, her eyes almost fearful, but I could see the seductive intrigue lying just beyond that fear & I knew I was right about her. “So, what do you say?”

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homenum-revelio-hq · 5 years ago

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Welcome to the Order of the Phoenix, Maggie!

You have been accepted for the role of HESTIA JONES! We love how you explored Hestia’s “gray” aspects. How she’s torn between doing “the right thing” knowing it’s outside the confines of the law, which she also finds incredibly important. How she’s positive and optimistic, but how that can be hard to maintain during war. We also loved your discussion of how pretty and feminine don’t equal dim - but that she often gets overlooked for it in a sexist world. That’s exactly what we were going for when we wrote her bio! So excited to have you part of the roleplay!

Please take a look at the new member checklist and send in your account within 24 hours! Thank you for joining the fight against Voldemort!

OUT OF CHARACTER:

NAME: Maggie

AGE: 23

TIMEZONE: CEST

ACTIVITY LEVEL: I’m a student, so I normally have a very flexible schedule with time to write. Sometimes things will be more hectic, in periods where I’m swarmed with essays or exams, but I always try to carve time out to get some replies done

ANYTHING ELSE: No triggers or anything. I have a few years of experience RPing on tumblr, and lately I’ve been in a similar role-play focusing on long-term character development and longer para-based writing.

CHARACTER DETAILS:

NAME: Hestia Jones

AGE: 18

GENDER, PRONOUNS, and SEXUALITY: Cisfemale, she / her. When it comes to sexuality, Hestia is still in the discovery phase. Currently, she identifies as heterosexual, although she has sometimes questioned it. While Hestia is the kind to get surface-level crushes easily, deeper feelings comes a lot rarer and she thus doesn’t feel like she has enough experience with love / attraction to sort out what exactly she’s feeling. Sometimes she finds girls pretty too, giving her heart the same flutter as pretty boys, but she’s unsure if that means she likes-likes them. Hestia has shrugged it off at the moment and reckons she can figure it out as she goes along.

BLOOD STATUS: Half-blood

HOUSE ALUMNI: Ravenclaw

ANY CHANGES: None

CHARACTER BACKGROUND:

PERSONALITY:

At a first glance, it’s easy to overlook Hestia. But only for a moment - and only if her mouth is closed. While Hestia’s never been the kind to chatter mindlessly, she’s never been the kind to ponder in silence either. Her way of interacting with the world has always been to question it and she learned early on that asking out loud might give her an answer.

She was never the child that could sit quietly for hours and play. She’d race through the house, through the backyard (and the streets if her parents didn’t catch her), a hurricane of braids and skirts, a million question bubbling at all times. Her parents learned quickly that it was better to let her test her abilities -magical and normal- under supervision. She was always an outgoing child, happy to make friends with anyone from the kid next door to the mailman walking past, and thrived when she started Hogwarts. There was no question Ravenclaw was the house for her, filled with other likeminded kids to encourage and challenge her.

Hestia is outspoken, sometimes coming of as abrasive when she get heated up. While she tries to avoid staring arguments, Hestia’s never been one to shy away from one either and is more than willing to defend herself - or someone else. It is easy to believe that if someone is kind, they’re a pushover, and if someone dresses prettily, they’re vapid - two assumptions that Hestia has rebelled hard against her entire life. She hates being dismissed for not wanting to trample over others, hates the idea of having to act cynical to be taken seriously. Hestia has a thousand thoughts and ideas, topics and questions brewing at any given moment. That doesn’t stop her from being kind, or from making friends. Most importantly, being feminine doesn’t make her less capable. As a child, she’d scoffed at the notion of having to chose between brains and beauty. She had scoffed - only to find it a trope that haunted her. While it was no doubt where she belonged once she started Hogwarts, and Hestia loved being in a house filled with likeminded people, she sometimes felt like she was hand waved away for not dropping parts of herself. Hestia made it difficult for anyone who talked to her to ignore her, but it didn’t stop her from getting into rows. More than anything, Hestia dislikes being underestimated.

One of Hestia’s issues is that she easily gets tunnel vision when it comes to solving problems, often seeing things as very black or white. Growing up in sleepy Scarborough, with a small population and an even smaller magical one, she was kept quite sheltered in terms of the problems in the wizarding world. Her parents explained the basics of how the magical world worked but avoided the issues of it - both for her sake and for theirs. They were content keeping to their corner and not rocking the boat. Hestia, as it would turn out, was not. Starting at Hogwarts taught her a lot of new things, including many of the injustices of the world that had been kept hidden from her. At eleven, it was vague concepts but the more she grew, the more she questioned, the clearer it became. As things grew bleaker as the dark side grew stronger, Hestia’s drive to do something grew as well. While she is clever, Hestia often doesn’t know when to stop- when it’s smart to walk away from an argument, when to admit defeat. It drove her into magical law, and later into joining the Order.

Hestia wants to do good. It’s one of her driving forces - clambering to fix at least a little corner of the world. To make something better for someone. But it’s difficult to keep an upbeat attitude when it feels like the world is determined to get a little worse each day. Sometimes it feels like pushing a rock up a hill, when the news keep pouring in and her efforts keep pouring out. It’s enough to chip away at the confidence of even the most chipper, optimistic person. And while Hestia is optimistic, she’s not naive. Some days it feels difficult to keep hope up, but she keeps fighting in the belief that if you keep pushing, something has to give. Even if it’s just the tiniest pebble. So Hestia keeps going, even on the days when the world keeps kicking when you’re down. She has always been stubborn, and she has never backed away from a fight before - so why stop when it’s something that matters?

BRIEF OVERVIEW OF FAMILY:

Hestia was the not quite planned, but more than welcome kid. Her father, Richard, was working as an editor for a publication focusing on magical authors and her mother, Delia, had just started working as an English teacher at the local muggle school. Hestia came with a bang; faster and with a bit more drama than either of them had expected, and it set the precedent. She was always a curious child, defying both muggle and magical child-proofings as she climbed across the house. Both her parents discovered quickly that the best way to keep her still was by distracting her through making her think. Delia would bring home puzzles, growing more complex as Hestia did, and Richard would fire off riddles and questions, pushing her to think outside the box and work her way through problems. As she grew older she would, in return, come up with her own riddles.

As a child, Hestia never ran out of questions. Her mom liked to joke that her first word was ‘why’, and that at the very least it was her favourite word. Hestia didn’t just want to know about why things happened - she wanted to know how they functioned as it did. How did the sky change colours? Why did birds fly certain places, how did their wings work, how did they know where to go? How did rain form, how did she grow?

If her parents ever grew tired of her constant stream of questions, they never showed it. They explained what they could when they had time, encouraging her to explore the reasoning of the world they lived in. If Hestia’s favourite phrase was ‘how does this work’, her father’s was ‘let’s find out’. When she grew older and her questions became more complex, he taught her how to navigate information and find answers. Every Saturday, he would take her to the library, where she’d spend hours browsing for books containing whatever topic that had caught her that week. They’d find enough books to tide her over until the next weekend. Hestia has many fond memories of sitting next to her mother while she graded papers and tests, reading her books and sharing the most interesting bits. While her parents might have been hesitant towards her experimenting with magic, trying to understand that part of herself, they never stopped her from learning.

While Hestia still loves her parents very much, her relationship with them started changing as she grew older. Her bubble expanded the day she went to Hogwarts, opening her view to the topics her parents had skirted away from. Her questions about the world became more difficult, and for the first time her parents didn’t have any way to help her find answers. Even worse, they didn’t want to. How come the wizarding world has such deep-rooted issues? Why did so many stay content knowing about the prejudice and injustice that ran rampant? It started as innocent questions once it became clear to 11 year old Hestia how important blood purity was to so many, and evolved as she grew older. Hestia did as her father had taught her -finding answers by looking for them- and that was how her interest for magical law started.

Her relationships to her parents kept changing as she grew, and it reached a new foothold when she graduated. They were delighted when she got an internship at the Department of Magical Law, happy that their daughter was reaching high and aligning herself with the Ministry. They are none the wiser about her involvement with the Order, and Hestia intends to keep it that way. She has distanced herself from them after joining; a part of her feels guilty keeping such a large secret from them, and even more so about putting them in potential danger through association with her. So it’s easier to not talk about it. She knows they would be horrified at her involvement - her parents that she loves so much, but that will always prefer to avoid the hard questions, to look away. It is a difficult process, growing up and realizing that your parents are just humans, with flaws and problems, and Hestia is still learning to navigate this new landscape.

OCCUPATION:

Hestia is currently an intern at the Department of Magical Law. She is just starting out and trying to find her footing, bouncing around doing the paperwork and research reading. While she hasn’t quite worked her way up to getting to handle any of the important cases -or a permanent position for that sake- Hestia loves her job and is determined to plant her roots in the department. She leaps at the chance to be given any kind of responsibility, taking on anything from coffee-runs to extra work. Hestia knows how it goes, and is determined to work her way upward through hard work - and she’ll do it all with a smile.

Her interest in law-work started around her fifth year, when it was time to start considering where she wanted her life to go post-Hogwarts. Hestia had always known that she wanted to have a job that challenged her, and she had always dreamt of having a job that mattered. Certain parts of the wizarding world had always bothered her and a childish part of her had always dreamed of helping to fix it. While researching careers and stumbling over the Department of Magical Law, Hestia started playing with the idea of making her childish dream a reality. It became clear what she wanted to do and she has geared towards it since. She thinks its perfect for her; not only does she get to be a part of something bigger, trying to make the world better through legal channels, but she also gets to spend her days pouring over texts, finding arguments and logic nestles within pages. While she is a long way from being able to lobby for dismantling the outdated laws, she’ll get there some day.

ROLE WITHIN THE ORDER/THOUGHTS ABOUT THE ORDER:

Hestia is on the newer side of the Order, still on the low-level and trying to find how her talents are best put to use. She contributes where she can, coming up with ideas and suggestions, joining the missions she’s asked to. While Hestia does believe in the work they do, she still harbors some conflicted feelings. Her work is within the law -the law that she truly believes can be fixed if enough good minds keep working on it- and it feels hypocritical to be a part of a group that’s outside of it, even if she’s working towards the same goal with both the Order and her job. Then there’s the question of what would happen if she got caught; her Order involvement could jeopardize the good she can do from within the Ministry. When first asked to join, Hestia hesitated, considering the risk and gains. In the Department of Magical Law, she could create long-term groundwork to help future generations, which would stop if she got arrested. In the end, Hestia decided that while fixing magical laws to prevent future discriminations is important, it would take too long. People are being killed now, muggleborns are running for their lives now.

While she doesn’t regret her decision, that doesn’t mean her involvement has been smooth sailing either. First of all, there’s the issue of clashing with some of the other members. Hestia hates being dismissed and passed over for her appearance, hates having good ideas waved away or being bossed around. While Hestia likes to be friendly, it doesn’t mean that she’s going to let people step on her either. Then there’s the Order itself. Hestia has by all means lived a pretty sheltered life, and is fresh out of school with a good amount of youthful optimism. She still sees things as pretty black and white - even if she’s part of an illegal group, it’s the right thing to do in her eyes. She has strong ideals, that gets a bit more challenged each day. Hestia is slowly coming to terms with the world -and particularly the Order- being a lot more grey than she thought. That doesn’t mean that some of their work sit easy with her. Especially recent deaths make her uneasy, making her views of what is right more difficult. Hestia knew that the Order is desperate, weary, but how far are they willing to go to to make the overall situation better? Where do they draw the line? Where does she?

SURVIVAL:

Hestia’s work is her survival. It’s her distraction, her alibi, her sanity. While she has no doubt that joining the Order was the right move, it still makes her feel uneasy standing opposite the law - even when it’s the right thing to do. So she throws herself at her work, compensating her work outside the law by working hard within it. It gives her comfort when things look bleak within the Order, to know that she can help in another way. If the Order’s mission fail, Merlin forbid, then the law will still be there. Chipped and with its flaws, it’s still there. It can be worked on, it can be improved.

It also makes her look inconspicuous. Hestia’s hopes are that someone so dedicated to the laws and rules of the wizarding world won’t arise suspicion of being in the Order. If her presence is missed or she has to reject a social advance, she’ll cite mountains of paperwork as a reason for staying home, joking that interns are always given the worst tasks nobody else wants to take on. Still, she takes precautions to not be associated with the vigilante group. She likes to travel around when she’s not working, making it less suspicious to rarely be seen around her flat in Queensway. She avoids the topic of the Order when she can, content to shake her head in disapproval or tsk as she knows how oftentimes choosing words too carefully says more than you intend to.

RELATIONSHIPS:

Hestia is desperately trying to manage her relationships but it’s difficult. She navigates different spheres, there’s her normal friends, her work friends, the Order and her family - all of which are taking hits. Hestia has a lot on her plate. Time-wise, the Ministry takes a huge chunk of her days, and she is working hard to not neglect her Order position either. Then there is the Order itself. Outside it, Hestia is navigating how to keep it at a distance. It’s difficult to have deep, meaningful conversations when you’re afraid that you’ll slip up, say something wrong that raises suspicion, especially in this world where the wrong person learning the wrong thing can be disastrous. There’s the guilt of lying, of putting her loved ones in danger.

Then there’s the war, the weight of being involved with it. There’s this weight on her shoulders, that demands so much of her time and mentality, that she can’t talk to anyone about outside the Order. While she is making friends within it, she’s also arguing with others. Arguments she can’t vent about. The people she does like have enough on their plate and friendships are difficult when you’re worried about overloading them.

OOC EXPLORATION:

SHIPS/ANTI-SHIPS: My main basis for ships / anti-ships is chemistry. I rarely go in with ideas of ships beforehand, preferring to see how relationships and chemistry evolves.

WHAT PRIVILEGES AND BIASES DOES YOUR CHARACTER HAVE?

Hestia always sort of fell in-between when it comes to this point, having the sort of privilege that you don’t necessarily recognize until you look back. Her family wasn’t swimming in money and prestige like some of the wizarding families, and neither did she have the pure blood that is lauded. But as a half-blood, she didn’t fall lowest on the pecking order, with enough magic in her veins to not have to worry about being targeted for her muggle part - at least not in the way muggleborns have to worry about. Neither did her family really struggle. While the Joneses didn’t have manors and summer homes, they had a steady house in a good neighborhood. Hestia never had to worry about things like food or new clothes, there were no difficulties when she needed school supplies.

When it comes to biases, Hestia, like everyone else, has a few built in. While she is eager to work for a more just society, it is a bit harder to shed the feelings that’s been instilled in her - some that she might not even recognize. She grew up with stories and warnings that integrated themselves as part of her worldview (stay in your bed during the full moon, lest werewolves eat you, careful in forests for giants have to qualms eating you) and it’s difficult to shed biases when you don’t necessarily recognize them as such.

WHAT ARE YOU MOST LOOKING FORWARD TO?

Is saying ‘absolutely everything’ a lazy answer? Because my answer is Absolutely Everything. First of all, I think this rp has such an interesting plot and I absolutely love the premise. I think it sounds so fun to write within this world, explore the shades of grey. Second, I really love the focus on deeper character explorations and the style of longer paras (once you’ve been in one lsrp, you can’t go back). Third, everyone seems so nice and good writing partners are worth their weight in gold.

PLOT DROP IDEAS (OPTIONAL): Not at the moment, sorry!

ANYTHING ELSE?: This got a bit longer than intended, but thanks for reading!

#homenumaccepted

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avengerscompound · 6 years ago

Text

Awakenings - Chapter 1

Awakenings: A Captain Marvel Fanfic

Series Masterlist

Buy me a ☕ Character Pairing: Carol Danvers x F!Reader

Word Count: 1276

Warnings: None for this chapter but smut on the series. Loss of virginity on the series. Virgin!Reader. Bi!Reader.

Synopsis: You had been living under the assumption you were straight. That is until Carol Danvers came into your life.

A/N: Fic request. I was wondering what if reader thought she was into men but she realizes she is bi when she meets Carol, but reader is a virgin so like her first time if Carol?

Awakenings

You’d seen people joke about it on the internet. That one image or gifset of a woman just looking incredibly strong, or powerful, or beautiful, that just sets of strings of ‘yes, I’m gay’, or ‘hello, I’m gay now’.

It had been more like a joke you’d thought. Just a way for people to say, this person is something to aspire to be. Obviously, you knew for many it was a real attraction, but those people were the ones that already knew they were attracted to women. You, however, just used it the other way. Women were beautiful after all. That was an objective fact. You were attracted to men though. That's where your crushes usually landed. Obviously, that made you straight.

Then there was Carol.

It had been one of those events. The world ending kind. You’d been trying to help get people out of the line of fire, while also getting out of it yourself. Not that you’d been sure that there was a place that was safe. The Avengers hadn’t shown up yet and you were a little worried half the city was going to be flattened by the time they did.

She had arrived in a ball of what looked like fire. Making her seem almost godlike. Ethereal. Then she started kicking ass and you were so transfixed by it, you didn’t see the huge piece of wall tumbling through the sky above your head on a trajectory for your head.

She swooped in and punched it clear so it slammed into the side of the building and just lodged there. You looked up at her in awe, part of you wondering how you could have ever been under the false impression you were straight in the first place.

“You okay?” She asked hovering in the air, above you.

You nodded. “Yeah… uh… yeah. Thank you.”

“You should get off the street, head down into the subway. Be safer.” She said with a nod, and just like that, she flew off again. It took you a moment before you were able to restart your system and follow her instructions.

After that, you had become a little more open to exploring your sexuality. Though it was purely academic. While you could appreciate that both men and women were attractive and you might like to have sex with people of either gender. You hadn’t with anyone.

So you let yourself like women and men, but that was it.

Until Carol.

It was so unlikely. How she could have saved your life, changed it and then changed it again. Like it was destiny. That is if you believed in that kind of thing.

You had gone out drinking with some friends and there she was, large as life. Looking very conspicuous in her group of superhero friends who had baseball caps on and glasses inside.

You had intended to leave them alone. The caps meant, ‘we’re on our downtime, give us some space’. That was your intention. It didn’t seem to be Carol’s.

“Hey, I know you. You nearly ate wall.”

She’d come up behind you as you waited to be served at the bar and her voice sounded like it had come to you right out of a dream.

You spun around and while you hoped what you did was smile, what you think it might have been closer to was a weird grimace. “Yes. That was me. You saved me.”

She made a ‘pfft’ sound and waved you off. “That’s my job.”

“Yeah, well I thank the bus driver when I get off, and that’s not nearly as good as saving my life.”

She smiled and then started laughing. “Oh god, sorry. That was really sweet and then my stupid brain made it really dirty.” She said.

Your eyes went wide and you had a moment of pure mortification mixed with amusement. “Oh god. I’m sorry. That’s not… that’s not what I meant.”

She laughed and put her hand in the middle of your back. “That wasn’t on you. You were perfectly innocent. I’m apparently a huge pervert. Too much time around Tony Stark I guess.”

You smiled at her and looked back to the others. You could see Tony Stark. He was one of the only ones without a cap. Though he did have his signature red tinted glasses on. “Can I buy you a drink?” You asked, looking back at Carol. “As a way of saying thank you for saving me?”

She smiled and nodded. “Sure. That would be nice.”

The bartender finally approached and you both ordered drinks. “Would you like to come and join us?”

You looked back at her friends again and shook your head. “I don’t want to impose.”

“It wouldn’t be. But I get it. How about this? I drink my drink with them, and then after, you and I dance?”

You smiled, not sure if you were actually dreaming or not. “Yeah, that would be awesome. But can you do something for me first?”

“Mmmm? What’s that?” She asked.

“Pinch me? I think I must be dreaming.”

She laughed, throwing her head back. “I like you. Here you go.”

She pinched your hip, a sharp sting blossoming on your skin and went off with her beer in hand to her friends. You went back to your friends to socialize, no one quite believing that Carol Danvers had actually invited you to dance.

The look on their faces when she came up behind you and put her hand on your shoulder was almost as memorable as the fact Carol Danver’s hand was on your shoulder. “Ready for that dance, Cinderella?”

You scrunched your nose at your friends and got up. “I thought you’d never ask.”

Dancing with Carol was like something straight out of a dream. You started just dancing face-to-face, moving to the music, smiling and talking. The more you danced the more the rest of the world seemed to fade away though. It went from being you and Carol taking a moment away from your own respective groups of friends, to just you and Carol. Pressed together, sweating on the dance floor. Her blond hair fell over her blue eyes and plastered itself to her skin as she hovered his lips over yours, staring into your eyes and breathing in the breath you just exhaled.

You would stop to drink so that you got drunker and drunker why she remained relatively unaffected. The more you drank the handsier you got, so as the clock ticked past midnight all you knew was how her body felt moving against yours and how light your head felt. You wanted her. You knew that. You’d never wanted anyone as much as you had Carol Danvers.

You leaned in and hovered your lips so close to hers, you could feel them. She bridged the distance and kissed you deeply. It was like the universe itself stopped existing. It was just you and her in the deep void of space. She tasted a little of ozone. Like the stars themselves.

She pulled away from you and smiled. “I think I should take you home.”

“Yes, come home with me.” You said.

She shook her head. “I’m not about taking advantage of drunk girls.” She said putting her arm around your waist. “I will, however, get your phone number and call you. You wanna go out for dinner some time?”

You nodded feeling slightly dazed. “There’s nothing I want more than that.”

She smiled and began to lead you outside the now almost empty bar. “Well, alright then Cinderella. I guess I’ll be bringing you a glass slipper later in the week.”

// NEXT

#carol danvers #carol danvers x reader #captain marvel #captain marvel fanfic #fanfic #fanfiction #reader insert #awakenings

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bluerosesburnblue · 6 years ago

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Bless that post. I love the aro/ace headcanon, but I also love all mc/charlie shippers. Basically, I'm very very Pro-Ship and like... I've seen the people who headcanon aro/ace charlie get really hostile and weirdly aggressive over it. I'm pretty sure one person even deactivated their account because they dared to call out the harrasment and were in turn harrassed themselves. Fandom is supposed to be fun and shipping should never be about activism like some ppl are trying to do and it boggles me

Thank you. Given the extremes people go to on this site, it’s nice to see someone else who agrees with me about keeping these things measured and respectful

Honestly, my breaking point the other night was that I happened to see an anon on one of the really popular blogs in the fandom. All they said was that they were a fan of the ace headcanon, but they saw a lot of the negativity in the tag in regards to the Charlie/MC ship and were worried that if they started posting their stuff regarding it that they’d get backlash or get seen as insensitive. The whole thing looked like someone who was very anxious asking someone they respected if they thought it would be appropriate. They probably trusted that blog to be mature and give them some reassurance

The response they got was basically (I’m paraphrasing here) “The ace ‘headcanon’ is undeniably canon, you can still post your thing but just know that it’s not canon and nobody has to like the fact that you posted it. I don’t know what hate you’re seeing, but I haven’t seen it and I don’t think it exists.” Which is, like… denying that anon’s experience and brushing off their fears is just a shitty thing to do to someone who was obviously nervous and looking for reassurance. And also completely wrong. Just because you can read that interpretation into a canon line doesn’t mean that your interpretation is completely canonical. Dating and romantic or sexual attraction are not the same thing. And it’s bad enough that that response is getting a good amount of notes

But what really pissed me off was a response I saw from someone else on that post. This person immediately accused that anon of intentionally overreacting and fishing for sympathy, crossing the line by asking someone they respected about their opinion of the discourse, and trying to deny asexual people representation. And they had the nerve to go on about how “people you thought were nice are turning out to be shitty people.” And then told that anon to grow up

That is absolutely disgusting behavior. Even if Charlie was canonically aro/ace, it would be going too far. Nobody knows anything about that anon, because they’re a goddamned anon. For all anybody knows, that anon could’ve been a kid or young teen who legitimately wanted to be respectful to the ace/aro community and thought it best to ask someone they respected what their opinion was. This is exactly what I was afraid was going to start up. That the second somebody showed that they didn’t agree with the popular interpretation or, god forbid, admitted that they don’t know enough and wanted another opinion, that they’d get slammed and harassed, with accusations made about their character. A character that we can’t even truly know because this is the internet and it’s easy to read whatever you want into these things. You’re not “educating” anyone, you’re just making them not want to learn

And then that original blog had the gall to tell that anon that they didn’t see any reason why they’d be afraid of harassment. When that aggressive, uncalled for response was a response on their post

The best part? Not only did that anon directly cite a post that had bothered them in a later ask, but they admitted that they were ace and questioning aro and just didn’t see why that line made the interpretation canon

And the person who slammed them? Not aro/ace.

As far as I can tell, that anon never got an apology. The sidequest isn’t even out yet and the fandom has already devolved into people making assumptions and yelling over actual ace people over their own representation and refusing to see a problem with it. In fact, they think they’re in the right because quite a few popular blogs agree with them. That anon could’ve been a kid. Are we really going to scream at people who might be kids over a headcanon?

Not a single, goddamned person made any effort to say that that person was out of line. Not a single person saw a problem with that response. I’d say it was just that one person in the wrong, but I’ve seen equally harsh and aggressive responses by other people out there, too. This isn’t a situation of one person being an asshole (if it was I might’ve just called them out, specifically), they just happened to be the one to tip me over the edge

That’s what’s pissing me off about this situation. If someone is legitimately so scared to post something completely harmless that goes against the popular interpretation, then there is a problem. There is a problem, that shouldn’t be ignored just because you might disagree with that anon’s opinion. People don’t get that scared for no reason. It’s awful and immature to ignore the problem. To pretend it doesn’t exist, or to support the response they got and double down just to make yourself look right

People are really getting this awful over a side character in a mobile game. Just back up and really look at that. A side character. In a mobile game.

Some people need to grow up, and it sure ain’t that anon. And I hope that if that anon ever sees this, they know that they’ve got my support and I’m so sorry that some people think asserting that their headcanon is canon is more important than an actual, living person

As for the “it’s canon do we really have to spell it out for you?” argument, uhhh… YEAH. Not them, specifically, but the source material does. Otherwise it’s not CANON. Canon is reserved for things irrefutably stated in the text not “all possible (or your favorite) ways you could interpret lines in the text.” When it’s widely accepted, that’s fanon. Canon: Charlie states that he doesn’t have time for dating because he’s busy studying dragons. Fanon: Charlie is ace/aro. We also need to destroy this false equivalency that dating and romantic attraction are the same thing. It doesn’t help anybody on either side

And no joke, I read a novel one time and the main character was so obviously ace to me. The whole thing was written from his point of view, and he was always questioning why people found romance to be so important. He wasn’t into any of the girls that flirted with him, he kissed his male best friend and said he didn’t feel any sparks, he avoided romance of all kinds even while questioning his sexuality. Well, come the end of the book, he realizes that he was gay and in denial and VERY in love with his best friend. It was adorable when they got together

But at the same time, there was way more evidence to suggest that that character was ace than there is for Charlie, and yet canonically he was gay despite that. Sexuality is something very complex and personal and the discovery of it no less so, so yes, absolutely, I think it needs to be stated in some way to be canon. Things can’t just be implied to be considered canon. Your assumptions may very easily be wrong, or not what the author intended. And even things that the author intended can be considered non-canon. Death of the Author is a real thing, after all. If it’s not stated in the text, it’s not canonical

If Charlie had said “I’m not interested in romance and don’t know if I ever will be” or something similar, then yes I’d say they had a basis for their argument. But that’s not what he said. Charlie says… basically what I would have if someone had flirted with me in high school. My suspicion is that something in JC’s contract meant that they weren’t allowed to make Bill, Tonks, or Charlie romance options, so they just reworded JK’s old interview when writing his dialogue to be more relevant to the quest material

And people using that interview as “proof” is especially funny to me since she only said that after denying the possibility that he could be gay because Dumbledore already was. You’re all really expecting this woman whose reaction to being asked if a character being homosexual was a possible interpretation was “Uh, no, we already have one of those,” to go around and confirm him to belong to an even less represented group? And do it tastefully? And then have half of these people who take that as canon also state that they don’t generally consider things that JK reveals outside of the source to matter?

Christ, people, learn the difference between canon, fanon, and Word of God. And then stop ignoring or harassing people for rightly calling out that you’re misusing the terms

#harry potter series #harry potter hogwarts mystery #hogwarts mystery #hphm #charlie weasley #ace charlie discourse #long post #harry potter hogwarts mystery spoilers #hogwarts mystery spoilers #hphm spoilers #i want some people to look long and hard at this and realize just how shitty they're being #i hope i don't have to write another essay about this situation i really do #but i can't just let how poorly that anon was treated go #not naming names because i won't be responsible for spreading more hate around #even to people i think deserve it #but this kind of stuff seriously needs to stop #my blog is a safe space for pretty much everybody #race sex age whatever i don't judge people for any of it #we're all just strangers on the internet #i just judge people for their actions and if you act like an asshole that's how you'll get treated #so have some respect for people you really don't know anything about #and remember that fandom should be FUN #if it stops being fun then someone has crossed the line #anon asks #liz's shenanigans

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tvdversefanfiction · 5 years ago

Text

Canary Carnage

Chapter Three: Original Carnage

Fandom’s: The Originals, Arrowverse, TVDverse and DC Universe.

Warnings: I don’t own any of the rights, content or characters belonging to any of the DC content I use within the story along with not owning any rights, content or characters within The Vampire Diaries, Originals or Legacies.

18 Rating: Moderate/Graphic displays of violence, sexual innuendos, sexually charged scenes, SMUT, strong language and potentially triggering scenes.

Pairings: M/M, F/F, M/F.

Rebekah Mikaelson returned to New Orleans ready to keep an eye on the canaries, her siblings and her former lover Marcel Gerard not because she wanted to but because Klaus pleaded with her and she’d rather be the one taking action if needed than her brother knowing he’d mess up their plan to rid themselves of The Hollow once and for all and they were so close with only Elijah left to go.

However, upon her return to the city her family called home she was dealt some devastating news about her sister Freya and Freya’s werewolf girlfriend Keelin deaths as everyone found themselves convinced the Red Canary was to blame which was a fair assumption considering he did try to murder her that day.

Freya Mikaelson’s death had changed everything for Rebekah she wanted revenge and she wasn’t willing to give it up even if it meant giving up Elijah she had to honor her sister and kill Freya and Keelin’s killer no matter the cost knowing Elijah himself would agree with her decision to kill the Red Canary.

She just had to deal with the Black Canary first hoping to catch her by surprise so she’d be an easy kill hoping for Hayley Marshall’s partnership only for Hayley to refuse believing Laurel Lance to be innocent over Freya’s death although she did promise to help kill Lucas if she didn’t wind up killing him first. Hayley was royal to the Mikaelson’s, but she wasn’t one for needless bloodshed especially one who had already done the hybrid so many favors but Rebekah like her siblings was no stranger to backstabbing and betrayals.

The Mikaelson’s had funerals to plan and loved ones to mourn but that was all put on hold while they plotted their revenge on the Red Canary for killing their sister, not knowing he was innocent of this kill.

Rebekah and Kol were determined to make the canaries cry for last time as they once again found themselves in a situation where allies became foes.

Laurel Lance was as smart as they came having learned a lot from her father about keeping her ear to the ground making sure she knew everything going on in this city she was temporarily calling home which meant she knew Freya Mikaelson and her ER doctor girlfriend Keelin Malraux was murdered last night and just like everyone else she was convinced her brother was to blame.

The kill had Lucas Lance written all over it or at least that’s what Laurel believed not knowing her supposedly drowned sister Sara Lance had made a return from the dead as well as somehow making her way to Earth Blood.

It was a family reunion that was just waiting to happen shocking everyone involved but first she had to deal with a vengeful family a family of original vampires who couldn’t be killed.

“I hope you weren’t intending on going anywhere in particular now!” Rebekah said after kicking down the door of the hotel room to find Laurel throwing clothes into a rucksack clearly ready to flee New Orleans. “I know my sister’s death isn’t on you but it is on your brother and I know more than most how a sister never wants to see a brother die so I’m afraid where here to kill you to stop you getting in our way when we kill your brother.”

“Well I guess the joke is on me for believing vampires could honor deals even if I honored my side.” Laurel replied as Kol vamp sped his way to stand next to his sister. “See here’s the thing I’m not dying today neither is my brother so I’m afraid that leaves us with no choice but becoming enemies.”

Kol threw large shards of glass he had in his hand in Laurel’s directly with his vamp speed and force cutting Laurel’s throat with the shards several times causing her to fall to her knees in pain as blood began pouring out from her throat, knowing it would weaken her canary cry before the Mikaelson siblings vamp sped over to Laurel only to stop midway when a canary cry coming from behind dropped them to their knees.

“Hey sis did you miss me?” Lucas said to his sister Laurel as he appeared at the doorstep before releasing another large canary cry continuing to shake the room and make the two originals scream in pain until their heads exploded in bursts of blood and gore splashing all over the hotel room and his sister as the two headless Mikaelson siblings’ bodies fell to the floor. “Now are we going to team up again or have you found yourself some wolf in the woods?”

Laurel slowly rose to her feet holding her bleeding neck only for Lucas to speed over to Kol’s headless body as he pulled out a knife and cut his the chaotic original’s hand before speeding over to the Black Canary and force feeding her Kol’s blood.

“The blood has healing properties so take it in and let’s get the hell out of here.” Lucas demanded as Laurel pushed herself away from being force fed vampire blood as she held her neck and felt it instantly healing.

“Why did you come to my rescue?” Laurel asked, shocked by the entire situation.

“Because you’re my sister and only I get to kill you when the time comes.” Lucas replied to her. “And before you ask, I didn’t kill the witch although I had every intention too and I’m guessing you didn’t…”

“Which means there’s another screamer in town…one that’s probably came from our earth.” Laurel realized.

“I can’t promise not to double cross you if this screamer turns out to be a better alliance, but I can promise you won’t end up a blood bag to this family.” Lucas honestly told his sister, both knowing that now more than ever they needed each other.

“Deal!” Laurel agreed. “Now let’s get the hell out of here!”

Klaus Mikaelson stood outside the gates of the Salvatore Boarding School in Mystic Falls eagerly awaiting his reunion with his Tribrid daughter Hope Mikaelson after over half a decade without visiting her.

He never meant to leave it so long but being without her was worse than any torture he had even endured or impacted and the odd phone call here and there would just serve to torture him more so instead he did the typical Klaus Mikaelson move and vanished for a few years getting soaked in other people’s blood taking out potential foes and making new ones like he always did so well.

At first he believed there’d be someway to reunite him with his family but as the years went on he found himself giving up that notion until his sister Rebekah’s chance encounter with a certain Black Canary had changed everything for him and now he was standing outside the gates eagerly awaiting to see his daughter completely hollow free like his sister Rebekah and his brother Kol hoping soon Elijah would also be in the fold, not having checked his phone, not realising his sister Freya was no longer with them or at least not yet knowing.

“Dad I’ve missed you so much.” Hope stated with a sad smile on her face, her eyes red raw from crying after walking up to the gates which automatically opened allowing Klaus to give his daughter a tight hug. “I wish it was under better circumstances.”

“What’s wrong Hope?” Klaus asked his daughter after breaking off his hug with his daughter, knowing something had got her devastated.

“It’s Aunt Freya,” Hope reluctantly revealed as she began to cry once more. “She’s dead!”

A stunned Klaus quickly took his daughter in his arms once more hugging her as she cried over the loss of Freya while he stood there refusing to let go of his sobbing daughter as tears formed in his eyes as he struggled to come to terms with the revelation his eldest sibling was gone just like that without warning and without a proper goodbye.

He couldn’t believe the news he had only got his family back and now one was gone forever. The only thing he knew for certain in that moment was whoever caused his sister’s death was going to suffer incredibly for their vicious act before Klaus eventually released them for this mortal coil.

Lucas Lance was never one to come to the rescue that was always his sister Laurel’s job but he was definitely all about self-preservation and after hearing news of the witch’s death he knew he’d be the number one suspect so coming to his sister’s aid would give him the only ally in the world who wouldn’t want to see him dead.

Lucas’ relationship with his eldest sister was difficult at best and that’s before he chose a path of villainy. He was close to his father but Laurel was closer he was close to his mother but Sara was closer when it came to family ties he always felt alone even more so when his sister was pronounced dead, then his father died and his mother left town.

The Red Canary may have been a cold calculating psychopath who reveled in murder and mayhem but in his own twisted way he still loved his sister The Black Canary sure he’d back-stab and betray her at the whim of the hat but he’d never kill her or at least he didn’t think he would and god help anyone who tried.

Laurel Lance was the last shred of humanity Lucas still had after the rage within him took over under the influence of his first boss Slade Wilson who taught the Red Canary to harness the darkness within before Lucas broke free from him to be his own boss although he never admit to still having a fondness for his eldest sister.

“Not to be complaining considering you saved my life and everything but when the hell did you take over a hotel?” Laurel asked her brother Lucas as they walked into the luxurious and abandoned reception area of the same hotel Lucas had slaughtered a bunch of people by the bar.

“We all need temporary accommodation while we look for something a little more permanent.” Lucas replied to her.

“Yeah well your number one target here on a list of people who don’t seem to know how to die so sticking around permanently is probably not the best move for you mind you neither was killing their sister.” Laurel bluntly suggested to her brother.

“Like I said that wasn’t me there’s clearly another screamer in town maybe from this earth maybe from ours besides on the whole Mikaelson family being unkillable I’ve heard that’s not completely true in fact a certain Marcel Gerard has exactly what we’ll need to kill them all.” Lucas informed his big sister stating his innocence while making it clear he had the situation handled.

“Last time you underestimated an enemy you had to leave Gotham City this time you might not get a chance to escape.” Laurel warned her brother.

“Why escape when we can kill them all?” Sara asked her siblings after speeding into the reception area to greet a stunned Laurel and Lucas who had believed their sister had died many years ago.

Laurel remembered the time she first heard the news that her sister Sara Lance was on her boyfriend Oliver Queen’s boat when it sunk when her devastated mother Dinah reluctantly revealed all about her sister and boyfriend’s betrayal while delivering the heart breaking news of their deaths.

She remembered how she was so confused by whether she was supposed to be more angry or heartbroken following the news as she struggled to come to terms with losing her younger sister while attempting and failing to hold her family together.

Lucas never recovered from the news of his sister Sara’s death as he found himself falling apart along with his family before an alliance with Slade Wilson gave him purpose no matter how twisted that purpose wound up being the infamous Deathstroke gave him meaning when he needed it most.

As far as both Laurel and Lucas were concerned their family unit had been completely and destroyed and they never believed there’d be any healing happening but the return of their supposedly dead sister the White Canary was about to change everything.

“How is this possible? You’re supposed to be dead!” Lucas said to his sister Sara while him, Sara and Laurel all stood within the reception area of the hotel that the Red Canary had made his temporary home.

“Well not exactly I was just presumed dead.” Sara replied to her younger brother.

“I guess that’s why we never found a body.” Lucas realized as Laurel stormed over to her sister and furiously smacked Sara across the face.

“Your death destroyed our family!” Laurel shouted at her. “Dad drunk himself to death and Mum bailed on us unable to cope with your death and yet you were alive all this time.”

“I didn’t mean for anyone to believe I was dead Laurel I washed up on some deserted island where we had to force ourselves to learn just how to survive until we were eventually rescued by a top secret organisation I can’t tell you about.” Sara revealed to her siblings. “By the time I got anywhere near civilization the world believed Sara Lance was dead.”

“Why not seek us out? Why not tell us what happened?” Lucas questioned the White Canary. “How the hell did you wind up on this earth?”

“I got myself into a situation and had to live a life on the run I did think about contacting you both but my life was just too complicated until I heard about the portal in an alleyway back in Star City that nobody can seem to close.” Sara continued to inform her siblings. “I didn’t know you both would be here or that this world would be so different to all the others.”

“You said we…is Oliver…” Laurel began to ask.

“Yes, he’s alive too and he’s also here we both came here in an attempt to avoid a sticky situation.” Sara answered her older sister only to be smacked by Laurel once again.

“You should’ve stayed dead!” Laurel snapped at her younger sister coldly before speeding her way out of sight and as far away from her siblings as possible.

“Oh, great the last thing we need right now is her running loose in this city.” Lucas complained to his newly returned sister. “I’m guessing you’re the canary who cried the witch and her wolf girlfriend to death.”

“It’s kind of what I do or at least what I used to do.” Sara replied to her brother.

“It’s totally what I do,” Lucas smirked at his sister. “In fact, I was intending to kill her myself until you beat me to it.”

“I killed because I had no choice it’s how I earned my survival I don’t take pleasure in it like you Red Canary.” Sara quickly made it clear she was not like her brother. “This path of villainy you’ve chosen for yourself isn’t you or at least it never used to be.”

“Yeah let’s cut this hypocritical speech you seem to be going into newly revived sis because right now I have to go clean up the mess you made and make sure it doesn’t wind up being the death Laurel or me.” Lucas told the White Canary, realizing all questions he had for his sister would have to wait until after they sorted out the Mikaelson problem which he just decided in that moment he was going to take a different approach towards.

Freya Mikaelson and Keelin Malraux’s deaths had the Mikaelson family completely torn as they were forced to deal with another loss which Hayley Marshall had found herself slowly becoming more and more accustomed to while staying close with the original family of vampires.

During her time with the Mikaelson’s she had been around for Kol’s ex Davina Claire’s multiple deaths, her friend Camille O’Connell’s death, Elijah’s brief death, her own husband Jackson Kenner’s death and many other losses both she and the family had suffered as she started to believe her family really was cursed.

“I figured we’d be needing some drink right about now.” Hayley said after vamp speeding into the dining room with a bottle of whisky to find Rebekah and Kol sat at the table silently clearly torn up by the loss of their sister. “Hope called me she’s with her father right now trying to talk him out of coming back here to slaughter the two canaries.”

“He can leave that job to us we almost had Laurel until her bloody brother showed up with that bloody infuriating canary cry, I can’t wait to snap that bastard’s neck.” Rebekah admitted to her brother and Hayley.

“I’m starting to wonder whether or not killing these two is the best move we could make.” Hayley suggested as she placed the whisky down on the table. “Trust me I want that Lucas dead as much as the rest of use but we’re so close to getting Elijah back and so far, they’ve been proven to be the only ones capable of giving that to us.”

“Absolutely not!” Rebekah snapped as she stood up from her chair. “Our sister has died and for that blood will be shed as for Elijah at least he gets to be blissfully unaware where he is now and if I have to choose between cursing my brother to be back in this family or get vengeance for my sister then I choose the path where I get to kill things.”

“I agree with Rebekah sure Hope maybe able to postpone Klaus’ vengeance until he returns home but once he does, he will stop at nothing for vengeance just like Freya would for any one of us.” Kol said as he too stood up from his chair. “Lucas caught us off guard by his newfound affection for his sister, but we will be prepared for them both now and they will die at our hands.”

“Careful now anymore talk of bloody, betrayals and murder may just get me all fired up for round two now Kol.” Lucas told them with a sinister smirk on his face after vamp speeding into their home.

“I guess we know which Canary we’re killing first.” Rebekah announced while looking at the Red Canary with hatred in her eyes.

“Is that really the way to speak to the person who brought you the body of your sister’s killer?” Lucas asked the original female vampire.

“What do you mean you brought us the killer’s body?” Hayley wondered, confused to see Lucas suggesting his innocence.

“I’m touched that I’ve managed to be here a mere five minutes and you assume I’m your number one enemy but sadly there’s clearly more people on the list before me.” Lucas revealed to Hayley, Kol and Rebekah. “You see the witches here hate you all very much as you all know and while you were busy blaming me straight away they were enjoying making you all look like fools and destroy for yourselves the thing you want most.”

“Are you really trying to tell us you’re innocent?” Rebekah scoffed. “How bloody stupid do you think we are? You already tried to kill her once on the very same day she winds up dead in an alleyway.”

“Exactly I tried and failed normally I’d take a day or two before striking again.” Lucas replied. “Let me make myself very clear I didn’t kill your sister witch but the witch who did is now laying headless outside your gates.”

“She’s already dead how very convenient why would we believe a word you said?” Rebekah quizzed the Red Canary refusing to believe his innocence.

“Trust me when I kill someone, I take full ownership and pride in the act I don’t go denying it and offering alliances.” Lucas told Rebekah.

“I mean it’s not the first time a New Orleans witch made a move against us they’d have been top of our list if he wasn’t around.” Hayley admitted to Kol and Rebekah. “Maybe he really is innocent and we’re just starting a war to screw ourselves over.”

“If you’re telling the truth which I don’t believe you are why the hell do you want to build alliances suddenly when you were just happy killing everything that moves?” Kol asked Lucas.

“I thought that something you liked about me.” Lucas flirted with the chaotic original vampire before taking a deep sigh. “As for alliances I just don’t want to see my sister wind up dead for something I didn’t even do which would then force me to take every last one of you out.”

“You genuinely think you can take us.” Kol laughed at the idea of anyone managing to survive a feud with his family.

“Oh, I can guarantee it.” Lucas promised him.

Klaus, Rebekah, Kol, Hayley and Hope had gathered together at the bayou having put what remained of Freya and her girlfriend on a boat by the bayou and pushed it outwards after putting it on fire as they prepared to say their goodbyes to Freya Mikaelson and Keelin Malraux.

Klaus remembered how he first tried killing his older sister when she first came back into his life refusing to trust her only for her to prove herself time and time again as she continued to help them all when they needed her most.

Rebekah thought of how she genuinely believed her sister would be the first Mikaelson sibling to make it down the aisle and how she wanted it so badly for Freya how she wanted Freya and Keelin to live a long and happy life wishing neither would fall prey to the family’s curse only to be stood at their funeral instead of their wedding.

Kol couldn’t help but feel guilt over the many times he had wished both Freya and Elijah dead after the part they played in betraying his former love Davina Claire as he realized, he had got his wish and could never take it back.

Hayley stood there looking outwards to the boat on fire and found some comfort in knowing that Freya and Keelin’s finale moments were spent together without ever having to part and wanted nothing more for the two of them to find peace now and be from all the carnage that comes with their family.

Hope cried while being hugged by her father Klaus as she realized one of the few family members that was never taken from her by the hollow was now taken from her forever and there was no amount of tears of spells in the world that would ever change that.

The five of them continued to stand within the bayou for some time bonded by their grief over Freya and Keelin before Hayley took Hope back to the bayou as Klaus, Rebekah and Kol continued to stay put staying silent for quite some time until grief turned to vengeance.

“So, do we believe this psychotic canary and the tale he spun to you both?” Klaus asked his siblings, finally breaking their silence.

“I don’t believe it for a second however we do need them to believe we’re on side if we’re going to get Elijah back.” Kol answered his brother. “Which means we should make them believe that we believe them until we get what we want…”

“Then slaughter them both and whether it was them or not at least all suspects will be dead.” Rebekah revealed, ready to slaughter all canaries once they got their brother Elijah back.

“Good because I personally can’t wait to rip their heads right off and make them suffer more than they ever thought possible.” Klaus replied.

Laurel couldn’t get over the fact her sister was back that all the pain and suffering that destroyed her family was over nothing because Sara was never dead. She wanted nothing more than to despise her sister for everything she had done but she couldn’t stop herself beginning to feel sorry as she began to wonder what Sara’s life must’ve been like on that island as she worried about this secret organisation her sister was on the run from.

Laurel walked through the streets within the French Quarter of New Orleans as she continued to try and adjust to her younger sister’s sudden return from the dead while walking through a city where she suddenly had many enemies, realizing her newly reconnected family were far from safe only to be left stunned to see Oliver Queen appear from out of an alleyway and stopping her on her tracks.

“Olly…” She managed to say as she was re-introduced to another ghost from her past.

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sparxwrites · 6 years ago

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I've noticed recently that I've become accustomed to capitalising words for Emphasis, both in the absence of italics and in tandem with them. As a language nerd, what does this suggest of language mutation going forward?

this isn’t language mutation! at least, not in the way i suspect you mean it. it’s more of a linguistic adaptation to the inherent limitations of text-based communication - which is a bit of a mouthful, and a lot to unpack, so, let’s start with the basics:

in spoken english, we have words and grammar and sentences, the same as we have with internet english. however, we also have facial expressions, and body language, and hand gestures - and most relevantly here something called prosidy, which internet english is lacking (at least in the traditional sense). prosidy is the changes in pitch and volume of your voice when speaking. this gives rise to stress and intonation in speech, which serves several purposes - one is distinguishing between words (ie. record the object, and record the action), another is conveying emotion, and another is providing emphasis.

the last one is the primary purpose of both italics and initial capitalisation in internet english. since we can’t have prosidy over the internet via pitch and volume, we’ve adopted other methods.

words with the same spelling are usually disambiguated by context, so they’re not hugely relevant here, but there’s some interesting things going on with emotion and emphasis.

emotion is usually done with memes, emoticons, gifs, or other “verbal tags” - stuff like “/s” for sarcasm or “uwu” (which, interestingly, started off as a genuine expression of “i’m not mad at you!” and is now sarcastic and passive aggressive, so that’s a- lexical? possibly-lexical mutation there), or even acronyms like “tbh” and “lol” and “lmfao” which are now more often used to indicate the mood of a particular statement. for example: when was the last time you saw someone using lmfao to Actually Literally Mean “laughing my ass off”? now consider when the last time you saw someone using lmfao to mean “the previous statement is intended to be mildly humorous in a bleak and self-depreciating kind of way” was. think of the number of posts about “adults need to learn to text!” where people think their parents are angry because they ended a text in a full stop. think of all the wonderful variations on ellipses we have!! the way people use question marks as rhetorical devices, to indicate uncertainty in their statement, or to point out how obvious something is!! i love it. emotion tag-words are my favourite.

emphasis / stress is usually (or at least traditionally) done with italics in written english - it isn’t particularly a internet english thing, it’s been done by writers and comic book artists since well before the internet. this is part of what’s called prosodic stress in spoken english, and it’s used in a couple of different ways. aside from general the most relevant one here is to point out new information in a sentence (called focus in linguistics):

“However, it’s not enough to assume that turtles merely like the taste of pineapples. We must consider the possibility that turtles are deeply, sexually attracted to fruit.”

there’s also contrastive focus (a sub-type of focus, where the person you’re speaking to makes an assumption, and you’re contradicting / correcting them). wikipedia has some nice examples of how it’s often used both online and out loud:

I didn't take the test yesterday. (Somebody else did.)I didn't take the test yesterday. (I did not take it.)I didn't take the test yesterday. (I did something else with it.)I didn't take the test yesterday. (I took a different one.)I didn't take the test yesterday. (I took something else.)I didn't take the test yesterday. (I took it some other day.)

other things italics can do include indicating sarcasm (“Oh, of course, no one else has ever thought of this, because you’re so clever.”), and highlighting important/argument-relevant (“As I mentioned earlier: fish can feel love. This is just one reason amongst many, however, that fish-human marriage is undeniably ethically sound.”). i’m 90% sure that that latter one is probably also focus-related, but i don’t know enough about information structure generally to commit entirely to calling it focus - tbh, given how many different theories of focus there are, it may be focus under some theories, but not others (see also: that one theory on the wiki page where anything not given is focused, so if you’re specifically bringing up or reminding people of a relevant piece of information it’s probably not given and therefore focused). if the important / argument-relevant use is not focus-related, though, then it’s at least somehow related to information structure; perhaps italics are more generally useable to indicate something about information structure, without it specifically needing to be focus.

stress done with initial capitalisation, however, seems to be a little different - or at least, seems to occur in broader contexts than the one above. i suspect you could do an entire postgrad thesis on the similarities and differences between the two (and i also suspect that i don’t remember enough about syntax and phonology and information structure etc. to offer the best insight possible here), but let’s see if we can’t at least pick the differences apart a bit.

so! initial capitalisation can certainly be used in the same contexts as italics, for focusing new / relevant information and for contrastive focus. this evidenced by: (a) “omg, have u considered that turtles are Sexually Attracted To Fruit??” and “pls remember that Fish Can Feel Love” are both perfectly a-okay in internet english, and (b) by an edited version of the wikipedia examples:

I didn't take the test yesterday. (Somebody else did.)i Didn't take the test yesterday. (I did not take it.)i didn't Take the test yesterday. (I did something else with it.)i didn't take The test yesterday. (I took a different one.)i didn't take the Test yesterday. (I took something else.)i didn't take the test Yesterday. (I took it some other day.)

(initial capitalisation with “I” is always a little tricky (is it emphasis, or is it just normal capitalisation?), and in my expereince people tend to default to italics with it wherever possible for this reason. i’m also… unsure about how happy i am with the grammaticality (how “okay” a particular sentence is within a given language / dialect) of examples 4 & 5 (“The” and “Test”), but that might be because those two are a little unusual even with italics - “i didn’t take The Test today” looks much better, i think, and can mean both “i took a different one” and “i took something else”.)

however, it’s clear that initial capitalisation can occur in places where italicisation is either outright incorrect, or at least looks kind of weird:

[cute picture of a cat lying on its back, pulling a face, having knocked a plant pot off the table]

commenter A: “Why Do Cats Do These Things”

commenter B: “why do cats do these things”

commenter A’s statement is perfectly correct internet english; commenter B’s statement is just about interpretable, but quite clearly clumsy / not really acceptable in the opinion of most “native internet english speakers”. but why?? well, we’re clearly not focusing “do these things” (because it’s not really providing any information, it’s just sort of… pointing out that the cat in the picture is being weird and then asserting that this is prototypical cat behaviour. it’s trying to tap into a shared knowledge of “what cats do / are like” between “speaker” and reader), and though it’s somewhat humorous it’s not actually sarcastic, so italics are a no-go.

what commenter A is trying to do, however, is to indicate a specific usage / meaning of “do these things” via a specific “tone of voice”. commenter A is not just asking why cats behave specifically in this manner re: knocking pots off and pulling faces, they’re trying to indicate that they consider cats in general to act weirdly and look goofy; typing “why do cats do these things” would be mostly fine if you are indicating frustration / anger with a sudden plague of cats-knocking-off-plant-pots, but that’s not what commenter A is trying to communicate.

additionally, when i say “Why Do Cats Do These Things” out loud, there’s a specific tone of voice i use for it, that i suspect others do to - this kind of flat monotone, with a heavy weight on each word that’s not so much emphasis but a very careful over-pronunciation. it’s not quite emphasis, and definitely not focus-emphasis; it’s almost a comedy thing, or a joke; it’s drawing attention to a specific interpretation of this sentence that’s both humorous and typical within internet spaces; it’s indicating a kind of emotion (exasperation / affection / despair) more than anything.

some other examples of this, where capitalisation is a-okay but italics are somewhere between weird and entirely unacceptable:

“nah it’ll be fine, i’m Basically Immortal lol”

“getting run over would be Suboptimal”

“if word crashes and deletes this essay then, i swear to god, I’m Gonna Die”

“you’re a Terrible Human Being and i love it”

(if anyone can think of any examples where italics and capitalisation is okay, but are in the same style as the above, then let me know! or if people disagree with my analysis of what initial capitalisation sounds like out-loud. this sort of thing relies on native speaker judgements, usually, and although i am as close to a native internet english speaker as you’re gonna get, i’m only one person. other people may have other judgements.)

i suspect, from all of this, that the function of initial capitalisation is to indicate any kind of change in prosidy in the speaker’s voice (though primarily weird monotone), usually with an emphasis on a specific interpretation of the particular phrase that’s initially-capitalised. this is why it can be used for focus, and for sarcasm, and for more general emphasis the same way - but why it can also be used to represent a monotone (“I Would Prefer Not To”) in a way italics can’t, or to indicate that specific “you know what i’m talking about / i am referring to a concept we both share but that cannot be put into words” tone (“Why Are You Like This”), or that looping-up-and-down voice people use when they’re winding someone up (“I Am A Joy And A Delight, idk what you’re talking about :3ccc”).

italics can kind of be used for some of these, but only really as an extension of its function as an indicator of sarcasm - which means that italics are intelligible in that context, but just look weird, and like the person using them isn’t very fluent in internet english. that’s because initial caps don’t quite indicate sarcasm, though it occupies a similar teasing-dramatic tonal area; in some / most instances, initial caps seems to function similar to adding “lmfao” or “lol” onto the end, which suggests it’s also indicating a self-depreciating or bleak humour / drama to the sentence. initial caps seem to function, then, as a focus / emphasis device, but also as an emotion indicator, which is a sort of fascinating crossover of function - but very similarly to the way we see voice and prosidy being used for both focus / emphasis, and for conveying emotion.

so, you probably use italics + capitalisation in conjunction because you’re trying to convey two different things. for a sentence like “drinking three cups of coffee in a row is a terrible, awful, no good idea and oh my god Why Would You Do That”, the italics are conveying where you’re putting stress / emphasis in the sentence (on “oh my god why would you do that”). the initial capitalisation, however, is indicating that on top of emphasis, you’re saying “why would you do that” in a specifically unusual kind of prosidy, probably quite a flat and monotone one, and that it’s designed to be teasing / humorous.

i also suspect that italics + capitalisation can be used as a kind of “double emphasis”, or marking out an emphasised section within an already emphasised talking point. kind of the way bolding sometimes works?? (except the internet tends not to use bolding fsr, or only uses it for headings / as a way to highlight the most important sentences in a wall of information. it’s a structural-level organisational device, essentially.) so you can re-parse “it’s so important we feed cats and dogs different food, because cats are not dogs and have different dietary requirements!!!” as “[...], precisely because Cats Are Not Dogs and have different dietary requirements!!!”. in this instance, you’re emphasising that the reason for different treatment is that cats are not dogs and therefore have different dietary requirements, but also emphasising the fact in and of itself that cats are not dogs.

i also also suspect that, when we just need one form of emphasis and are choosing whether to use italics or initial capitalisation, we consider the context of our writing. in this “essay”, i’ve mostly used italics - they’re a little more “formal” as far as internet language goes (so, not very formal at all, but still more standard than initial caps), they’re more semantically accessible (i.e. if non-tumblr people find this essay, whereas they might be able to proactively work out what initial caps are intended to convey from context, they’ll probably intuitively understand the use of italics here), and they’re more visually accessible / they disrupt the visual flow of the text less. when i’m talking with friends (especially on platforms like skype and discord and tumblr messenger which, if they support italics at all, do so in a “non-intuitive” way, i.e. not using ctrl+i like word processing software does), in shorter / less formal settings, where the visual flow of the sentence is part of the meaning / emotion of the sentence in and of itself (how long are the sentences? do you use full stops? do you capitalise the beginnings of sentences? do you send each sentence as a new message? on a new line? how many dots do you use for ellipses? keysmashes? ?!??!??!?!?!?!!!! ?), i tend to use initial caps.

so tl;dr: italics seem to be primarily used to indicate focus - you’re pointing out a new or specifically relevant piece of information, or you’re correcting / denying a piece of information that your conversational partner has provided (or perhaps being sarcastic). initial capitalisation can Also/also be used for this purpose, but is additionally used to represent Any/any kind of change in prosidy that would occur if you spoke the sentence aloud (since we also mess about with intonation for other reasons beside focus). ...i sincerely hope someone has done / is doing / will do a thesis on this bc honestly this probably has some fascinating implications for information structure or prosidy or Something/something tbh.

regarding the “mutations” comment: these sorts of internet english quirks are not language mutations, per se, because we already have features for distinguishing this kind of thing in spoken english - and also because a lot of this stuff is what we call paralinguistic phenomena, which means that sarcasm and emphasis etc. communicate something, but it’s not actually strictly part of the language itself. it just adds an extra layer of meaning on top of the stuff being conveyed by the actual words.

instead, they’re adaptations of our orthographic (writing) system to cope with the increasing demands of written/internet english to convey these sorts of things. online, we don’t have people’s prosidy and their body language / expressions to read, so we need altered orthography or other visual indicators to ensure that people correctly understand the intent and mood behind your communication, not just the raw word-content of it. that’s why internet english has developed these quirks. essentially: our communication has always had these paralinguistic phenomena, these ways to convey emotion and emphasis; we’re just finding different ways of expressing them in response to environmental restrictions, i.e. the fact we’re all increasingly communicating via text on a regular, intensive basis. historically, we’ve primarily communicated verbally, so it’s not developed due to lack of need - but the internet has has created a heavily-used, text-primary environment, so now we do need it, and we’re collaboratively creating it as a result because humans (especially young humans) are excellent language innovators. it’s pretty neat!!

(as an interesting aside, i suspect that there’s also an element of in-grouping going on here. people want to mark out the community belong to, the people they’ve chosen as their “tribe” - irl, we do this via slang, and accents, and sometimes through certain types of wordplay or forms of prosidy / gesture etc. obviously, online, we can have slang (think about how often you’ve seen someone on tumblr say “top kek”, versus how ubiquitous that phrase is on reddit), but accents are a little harder. so we instead develop different ways of typing, different ways we use italics or capitalisation or emotes. some of this depends on platform constraints - if your community’s site doesn’t allow bold/italics, or automatically converts emotes into weird yellow smileys, you’re gonna have to develop workarounds for that - but some of it is us going “these are my people, and i can tell because we talk differently, and we’re Not Like You People”. this is why it can sometimes be linguistically disorienting going onto a different platform; i often find posters’ “tone” on reddit hard to read, because they seem to signal emotion differently to on tumblr!!

this may, perhaps, also be a reason why we’ve ended up with both capitalisation and italics - if one social group developed italics as emphasis, and a second social group (perhaps on a platform without capacity for italics) developed capitalisation as emphasis, and then the two groups merged or interacted, you’re gonna get this linguistic transference where the groups adopt one another’s styles without dropping their own original style. and then- voila! both italics and capitalisation for emphasis. but because language often tends towards getting rid of redundancy, the two styles specified out into having slightly different connotations / occuring in slightly different pragmatic environments. or, perhaps, the capitalisation style was always broader than italics, and there’s not been any change yet to reduce redundancy, but there will be in the future. who knows!)

(as a second interesting aside, all of this is probably partly why autistic people often report online friendships being easier / report preferring textual communication to face-to-face. whereas expressions and prosidy can be exceptionally difficult to learn to read if they’re not instinctual - think of the infinite variations of muscle contraction and relaxation in the face! the number of different pitches and volumes and patterns we can make with our voice! they’re very difficult to categorise because they overlap a lot and tend to gradient into one another - these kinds of “emotional tags” are usually quite easy and clear-cut. “/s” indicates sarcasm every time it is used, entirely unambiguously. stuff like “lol” or “tbh” are a little more ambiguous, but even then, they have a more limited set of emotional contexts that they’re used in than, say, the corners of your lips moving upwards. gifs and memes are even better; if they don’t outright say what they mean on the gif or in the meme, there’s entire websites dedicated to cataloguing and explaining memes should you be unclear of the usage.

additionally, internet environments can be a little more forgiving wrt people not picking up on tone, or using an incorrect / weird tone, when conversing; it’s hard to display tone online, and even allistic people (especially internet newbies or older people) struggle with it, so tonal faux pas or misunderstandings are a little more expected (and therefore forgiven) than irl.)

#lyinginbedmon #ask #linguistics #i am So Sorry this is like 3k but it got a little out of hand #there's a bunch of other stuff i could probably say on the topic too but like........ 3k is Enough #also if anyone has any native speaker judgements to offer #or someone w more information structure experience wants to correct me #Please God Do So i am very happy to hear others' opinions on this #i'm just spitballing here mostly

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raendown · 6 years ago

Link

All very good and very valid questions. What a delightful story to write.

Pairing: MadaraTobirama Word count: 4817 Summary:We all want someone who will stop and listen to us, however we decide to make ourselves heard. (aka that story where Tobirama is mute and it changes some things but not others)

Follow the link or read it under the cut!

Speaking From The Heart

Mito’s first impression of Tobirama was that of a polite man with proper manners. He was the only other person besides herself present at the meeting who did not speak over the crowd of voices at any time. In fact, he remained perfectly silent for the entire duration, serenely perched next to his brother and sipping his tea with nothing but a few twitches of his brows to hint at his thoughts. At the time and with no information on either of their personalities Mito wondered why she was being given as a bride to the other, louder sibling instead of such an exemplary gentleman.

Closer to the end of the meeting she saw Tobirama emerge from his shell at last, placing one hand on his brother’s shoulder to gain his attention and then using both to make shapes in the air. Mito was delighted. She waited only long enough for Hashirama to make his reply before leaning across the table to capture Tobirama’s attention for herself.

“You speak sign language! My mother lost her hearing shortly after I was born; I learned both silent and spoken language as I grew.” She offered him a polite smile, thrilled when he lifted his hands to reply.

It only made sense, she thought. The room around them was quite loud and clearly he wished to practice – although he didn’t seem to need it. His sign language was as flawless as her own. Still, she appreciated having someone to speak to like this other than her mother or his own siblings. It was pleasant to share that part of herself with someone outside the family and she very seriously began to wonder if her father might consider changing a few things in the alliance contract they were drawing up to merge her people with the Senju.

Tobirama was able to keep her entertained with some very intelligent silent conversation until the Senju delegation and her father’s counsel finally talked themselves out. She might have paid attention if they were discussing something more interesting than the precise amounts of sea food and wood to be traded between their clans each year but as that was the only thing left on today’s agenda she felt no guilt in losing herself among the challenge of stretching her secondary vocabulary to its limits, having discovered that her conversation partner also enjoyed fūinjutsu.

More and more she was beginning to think she should be marrying this man rather than the one to whom her hand had been initially offered.

Over the next couple of days she sought Tobirama’s company as often as she could. It didn’t occur to her as strange that he continued to communicate only in sign language but she also didn’t see him speaking with anyone other than his own sibling. From what she gathered in their conversations he wasn’t a fan of most people and preferred to keep to himself. If things had gone on in this manner for much longer it was very likely she might have embarrassed herself terribly by asking for things he was not willing to give and in the process insulting her future husband-to-be.

The first thing which tipped her off that her growing fantasies of a perfectly polite marriage were unattainable was the moment she saw Tobirama giving a very discreet once-over to her very male cousin. Rather than seem at all ashamed of his actions, when he noticed her watching he lifted one eyebrow and both hands.

Is he single? He asked her in sign language. Mito blinked.

Yes.

Does he speak like we do?

No, very few in Uzushio do.

The disappointment on his face was palpable but cleared quickly, pragmatic even in being denied.

You are the second heir of your clan, are you not? Such tastes are…frowned upon for heirs among my people. She allowed her face to show her hesitance for the question but he waved such an impolite question aside in favor of pinching his expression at the members of his own clan.

My inability to speak makes my position as the second-born rather shaky anyway. Sexual preferences won’t matter until they decide whether I can lead in this condition or not.

Although she managed to stop herself from showing it, Mito very nearly fell out of her seat with embarrassed shock. It hadn’t even occurred to her that he was unable to speak. Or that he might not be sexually attracted to members of her gender.

It seemed she had many things to learn about Tobirama and the Senju clan as a whole before she continued to make assumptions about any of them.

It didn’t occur to Izuna until long after the fact that Tobirama had never once spoken during their clashes, no war cries or trash talk, not even an involuntary exclamation of pain on the rare occasion he was bloodied more than a simple scratch. Izuna could probably be forgiven for not adding these things together in his mind since most of his attention was usually focused on protecting his clan’s future and staying alive himself.

On the other hand, he thought it might be less forgivable that it took him a couple of weeks after peace had been made to figure things out.

Natural suspicion and a lifetime of seeing the Senju as his enemies led Izuna to assuming the worst possible thing when he was finally present for Tobirama’s attempts at communicating with others. During the first few peace talks his counterpart had remained perfectly silent, his face barely moving from an impassive expression, and Izuna had assumed the other man was simply making a silent assessment of his new tentative allies – either that or holding his temper by refusing to speak. Their clans had already met several times and Tobirama was always there sitting next to his brother yet he always remained silent. Even stranger was how no one from his own clan seemed interested in asking the opinion of a rumored genius, their supposed second heir.

It wasn’t until the signing of the final peace treaty between them that Izuna finally saw him frown and turn to his brother, both hands lifting to make shapes in the air before him. Clearly the first thought on every Uchiha’s mind was that he was forming hand signs.

The commotion of every Uchiha present leaping to the defensive at once caused all of the Senju to react in turn, the entire clearing bristling with weapons in the span on a few seconds.

“What is the meaning of this?” Hashirama’s wife demanded; Mito, he thought was her name.

“Ask him,” Izuna spat, nodding his head towards Tobirama and irritated when all he received was a tilted head and a frown. “Not even going to defend yourself? They’re handing you the pen to sign for peace and you’re weaving signs for an attack!”

“Oooooh. I think I see what happened.” Without warning Hashirama burst in to booming laughter, holding his belly as one might upon hearing a particularly good joke.

Tobirama glared his sibling down, reaching over to shove him sideways, but said nothing still.

“Do tell,” Madara snarled, already inching sideways to put himself between Izuna and the Senju. No one had lowered their weapons yet and he clearly did not intend to be the first. “We all saw his hands, Hashirama. Don’t try and deny that he was doing something. Explain or it all ends here and you lose this one chance for our families to live in peace.”

“He wasn’t weaving signs, he was just talking!”

“I just said that we saw his hands!”

“That’s how he talks, dumb ass,” one of the Senju women spoke up, the really attractive one with the big muscles. Izuna regretted that he’d never had a chance to face her on the field.

Any fantasies about muscly arms he might have slipped in to, however, were immediately dispelled as her words sunk in. “He what now? Talks with his hands?”

“Well duh, he’s mute.” The woman shrugged, Tobirama standing at her side with no visible reaction on his face beyond a mild wariness. “He was born that way so he’s learned to talk with his hands. It’s called sign language. Which I’m sure you would know if you weren’t an uneducated dog.”

“Fuck you, Senju!”

“I’d really rather you didn’t. I don’t go in for whiny bitches.”

“Oi!”

Amidst the flailing and the yelling which followed after, Tobirama’s lack of speech sort of fell to the wayside. Only once he had been forcibly removed from the meeting and marched back home by his exasperated older brother did the situation finally sink in. Izuna stood in the middle of his bedroom and stared blankly at one of the walls, muttering to himself as he went through all the battles his Sharingan had memorized and confirmed that Tobirama hadn’t made so much as a sound in any of them.

Then he spent the next hour desperately trying to deny that having an explanation for the creepy silence made Tobirama just a little more human in his eyes.

Shishou made weird faces at sensei sometimes. Kagami had noticed it almost as soon as he started training with Tobirama, though he’d never been stupid enough to mention anything about it.

Usually it didn’t interfere with their training so it wasn’t like he cared much either but sometimes sensei would stop sparring to look over at shishou with a deep frown and a questioning expression, fingers twitching at his sides with the desire to say something even though he knew that he couldn’t. Sensei spoke with his hands instead of his voice and there weren’t a lot of people outside of his own family who understood what he was trying to say.

Kagami thought if there were more people in his own clan who were willing to just spend a little time around his teacher then they would want to get to know him too and, really, it would be all too easy for anyone of the Uchiha blood line. He himself had to learn sensei’s hand language the hard way but for someone who had already activated their Sharingan it would be the work of a couple hours to memorize all the hand signs. Kagami couldn’t decide if his clan head was too proud or just too much of a complicated grown up to think of such a simple solution. And he wasn’t about to suggest it just in case he got yelled at.

Shishou was kind of famous for his yelling.

The weird look was back today but at least shishou was sitting out of the way at the edge of the clearing, his arms crossed as he sat on the ground with his back against a tree, eyes trained on their ragtag group. Sensei had a lot of people from several clans who wanted to train with him but he only accepted the students who were willing to learn his language. They had to be patient enough to stop and listen when he needed them to as well; that quality had weeded out several other students who no longer came for sparring practice.

It was kind of odd to be so quiet while they fought but sensei liked to point out that it was good for them to work on making their movements as silent as possible. He said it would help them become better shinobi.

“Pssst. Kagami.” He looked up to find Hiruzen waving at him. Before answering he took a moment to peek over and make sure that sensei wasn’t watching before shrugging his shoulders questioningly. “Why does Madara-sama keep coming back to stare at sensei?”

“I dunno,” he whispered back.

“Do you think it bothers him?”

“I dunno,” he repeated. “But sensei hasn’t told him to go away yet.”

Hiruzen rolled his eyes. “Duh, because he can’t.”

Rather than allow his friend to see how stupid that had made him feel, Kagami straightened his back at the last second as their teacher turned to eye the both of them suspiciously. Upon seeing Hiruzen bent over to whisper at someone else while they were meant to be concentrating on their kata he leveled the boy with a narrow eyed look of disappointment.

If you have questions I am the one who is supposed to instruct you, not your fellow students, he signed. Hiruzen gulped and nodded frantically.

“Sorry. I was just wondering why Madara-sama keeps staring at you.” Hiruzen ducked his head in shame but Kagami, who had miraculously escaped a watery death this time, caught the faint look of frustration on sensei’s face.

He has yet to tell me why and I refuse to play broken telephone with a man who cannot take the initiative to try and open communication himself. Now get back to your kata.

Kagami let his weight rest on one foot and very carefully raised the other until it hovered well above his head, his eyes never leaving their teacher. It was interesting, he thought, that sensei hadn’t asked anyone to tell shishou to go away yet. Even with his silent mode of communication he had never hesitated to send someone packing before, although he frequently had to do so using someone else’s voice. It was almost as if he didn’t want shishou to go away.

Which was ridiculous. All he did was stand there and make that same weird expression all the time.

Watching Madara struggle through the task he had assigned himself was both an exercise in boredom and probably the sweetest thing Hashirama had ever seen. He himself had mastered sign language as a child, as soon as their small family understood that Tobirama would never speak, and he simply wasn’t suited for helping someone else learn something that he already knew so well. Yet he forced himself to be patient and converse with Madara as slowly as the other man needed because he’d never seen a more romantic gesture than the one his friend was quietly working at.

It honestly surprised him that Madara was capable of such romance but he hadn’t seen fit to say so. He wasn’t that stupid.

“Slow down! I only caught half of what you just said!” His guest slumped over the kotatsu and glared at him, his massive hair in wild disarray from all the times he had pulled his fingers through it in frustration.

“But you know all of these signs,” Hashirama pointed out. Madara glared harder.

“My brain knows them separately, yes, but it’s not an instinctive for me as it is for you. I have to stop and think about which means what.”

“You know that you could practice with Tobirama just as easily, right? He wouldn’t mind.”

“Absolutely not!” His friend jerked upright with a scandalized expression. “How am I supposed to carry on a conversation with him if it takes me five minutes to figure out whatever he’s trying to say? He’ll think I’m a simpleton! Just shut up and do it again, alright? I need to get better.”

Hashirama smiled and shook his head but raised his hands obligingly, forming the signs a little slower this time as he silently asked, Are you staying for dinner tonight? A wave of glee rushed through him when he saw the light of understand dawning in the other man’s eyes and hesitant hands forming their own signs to respond to him. Madara’s Sharingan had made quick work of ensuring he could create them but possessing that knowledge did not automatically mean he knew how to apply it.

I don’t think that is a good idea.

Why not?

Your brother will think I am ignoring him again.

Then maybe you should talk to him.

“I can’t, you nincompoop, that’s why we’re doing this!” Madara burst out, slamming his fist down on the table. “Didn’t I ask you to cut the commentary? I’ll never get better if you won’t shup up and just help me learn this!”

“Awww, Madara! You never ask anyone for help. This is really big of you.”

“Fuck off. No wait, here.” He raised the middle finger on one hand. “Does that still mean the same thing?”

“Well…he’d understand you at least.”

Go die in a hole. You are a waste of space. I hate you.

“Those aren’t phrases you should be saying to my brother; should you really be practicing with them?”

Madara screamed in frustration and did his best to rant with his fingers in place of his mouth, using as much vocabulary as he could pull out of his quickly-formed memories.

Distracted by their own drama as they were, neither of them took notice of the figure peering around the doorway with a soft smile who disappeared a moment later. Hashirama was too busy laughing at Madara’s mishmash of loud and silent screaming and trying to encourage his best friend without sounding condescending. He really hoped that this plan of theirs worked out.

And he really hoped Tobirama was ready to be patient because Madara was terrible at this.

This was it. He was going to do it. It had taken too many long months of stupidly difficult struggles but finally he felt ready to do this. Today was the day he was going to speak to Tobirama.

Madara mentally rolled his eyes at how childish he was being but at the same time he couldn’t deny his excitement. His interest in Tobirama had been sparked as soon as he learned the man was incapable of speech, an innocent interest at first as he quietly sought more information on the situation through subtle questions that his reunited best friend always answered without seeming to think much of it. The more he learned and the closer he watched, the more he became invested until one day he realized that he had developed a crush on someone he had no idea how to speak to.

Well, he could speak to Tobirama. Problems arose in that Tobirama could not speak back to him if Madara didn’t take the time to learn sign language first.

Now he finally felt confident enough in his skills to do something with them. Madara took a deep breath in and let it back out slowly to calm his racing heart before knocking twice on the door he’d been milling around in front of for the past ten minutes. He waited until the two knocks were echoed from inside before entering and almost losing his nerve at the sight of Tobirama’s curious expression. The man looked much too attractive in his casual blue shirt and reading glasses, seated behind the desk from which he silently ran half of the village.

Swallowing thickly, Madara closed the door behind himself and steeled his nerves, raising his hands and trying to ignore the open surprise he could see on Tobirama’s face.

Will you join me for lunch? You have not taken a break yet today. Forming the words didn’t take him nearly as long as they used to. After so much practice with Hashirama it was very close to being as natural as any second language should be and he was inordinately proud of how far he had come. The joy on Tobirama’s face was certainly more than worth the effort.

Yes, thank you. Where will we eat?

Madara very carefully spelled out the name of the small café just down the street from the administration tower which he happened to know sold tea and the kind of sweet cakes Tobirama would kill a man for. The smile he received in return was all the reward he needed.

After all the many hours and weeks of effort, it was hard to describe the feeling of walking side by side with the one he had admired from afar for so long – but even better than that was finally being able to sit across from him in a private café booth and have their very first conversation. Tobirama complimented him on his proficiency with sign language and asked, with a strange little smile on his face, why they had never spoken like this before. Madara changed the subject as quickly as he could.

He learned more about Tobirama in the single hour they spent on break together than he had ever dared to ask Hashirama about before. At some points he questioned whether his incessant questions were too invasive or if he was being subtle enough for his companion to take little notice but since Tobirama never said anything he saw no reason to stop. He was certain that Tobirama would have no trouble telling him to back off if that was what he wanted. Just witnessing a few silent arguments had been enough for Madara to learn that this was a man who was not afraid to state his opinions.

Incredibly, he managed to make it all the way through their meal and the entire walk back to the tower without embarrassing himself in any way. His good fortune came to an end, however, when they stopped outside of Tobirama’s office and the man turned to him with his lips turned up in a half-smirk.

This was pleasant, he signed. You should ask me on another date soon.

“Date!?” Madara blurted, blood rising to his cheeks. Dating and romance had been an end goal in the back of his mind, certainly, but he hadn’t truly intended for this to be an intimate outing today. His intention had been to build at least some sort of companionship between them before even attempting to ask for more.

Tobirama’s smirk widened and he winked before closing the door of his office, leaving Madara alone in the hallway to wonder how in the hell he’d gotten so lucky.

Some might call it stalking but Touka preferred to think of her newly acquired habit as ensuring the safety of her loved ones. It was no secret that she was rather protective of her youngest cousin – although she would be the first to admit that he hardly needed protecting – so it probably wouldn’t be much of a surprise if that idiot Uchiha ever realized that she was following behind them on all of their dates. He probably wouldn’t notice though. From what she observed, he tended to get so wrapped up in his companion that he stopped paying attention to anything else. Charming, if a little stupid.

It was unlikely that Tobirama hadn’t noticed her but she figured he was simply taking the path of least resistance. They both knew she wouldn’t stop even if he asked her to so merely pretending she wasn’t there was the most peaceful option for all.

Like most people, Touka had quite a few doubts when she first heard of the budding relationship between Uchiha Madara and her precious baby cousin. That certainly wasn’t who she would ever have chosen for Tobirama and she’d wondered if they would even make it past the first date. After silently accompanying them over the past few weeks and observing from afar she could admit that she was reluctantly on board with the idea. Madara treated Tobirama much better than she would have expected him to.

Unfortunately, her habit of following them around was beginning to encounter some negative consequences as their relationship progressed and they started to behave more intimately. Touka wasn’t sure if she wanted to smirk or gag as she turned her head away, avoiding the sight of her cousin making out with his boyfriend for the third time in the same evening. She definitely could have lived without having to watch that.

At this point she was sure that the two of them would be fine and there wasn’t much need for her hovering anymore, not when she was grudgingly beginning to trust that Madara was serious about this. It was harder than it should have been to let go, though. No matter how many times she told herself that being mute didn’t make Tobirama helpless it was still her first instinct to watch over him and leap to his defense at the slightest hint that he might need her. Touka was more than aware that he found this habit as offensive as he did touching.

It seemed that today he saw is as slightly more on the offensive side, however. Peeking over to make sure they were still in her line of sight, her spine went rigid when Tobirama looked over and caught her eye for the first time. One eyebrow lifted and he raised his hands to chastise her from across the dark clearing.

She really hoped Madara didn’t know some of those signs yet. Tobirama’s language was positively filth when he was angry.

Touka flashed her cousin a grin and retreated before any mysterious bodies of water could find her hiding place. If they were going to get nasty in a public place she had no desire to stick around and watch it happen. As much as she loved her baby cousin there were some things she didn’t want to know about him and the question of whether he topped or bottomed was not one she needed an answer to.

Checking behind herself once last time as she left, Touka realized that she was now alone in the park and laughed. Wherever they went she hoped they enjoyed the rest of their night because she was definitely going to tease them about this later.

Warm sheets against his back and cool fingers mapping out his chest, Tobirama sighed in contentment and thought distractedly that he could never have imagined he would end up in this situation – though he was happy that he did.

A smile touched his face when Madara froze above him, fingers falling still and eyes darting up to his face to see if everything was alright.

You didn’t have to stop.

The older man hesitated and Tobirama used the pause to let his eyes wander down his partner’s body. Legs spread to straddle Tobirama’s hips, shirt gaping open and drooping from one shoulder, he looked like any number of unspoken fantasies come to life. His expression was the one thing more endearing than sexy, cautious in a way not many got to see him because he’d heard one of the few noises his partner could make and wanted to make sure it was a good sigh, not a bad one.

“If you’re sure.” Madara dropped his eyes to one side, embarrassed. “I’m…used to just…listening to make sure the other person is, ah, enjoying themselves.”

A slightly awkward silence fell over them as both men shifted in slight discomfort. Tobirama frowned at the idea that he had ruined the mood. Biting softly at his lower lip, he recaptured Madara’s attention so that he could speak.

I’m sorry. He was touched that his partner responded with his own hands.

For what? I overreacted.

No, I’m sorry that I make this difficult for you.

“Excuse me?”

Tobirama’s mouth gave a wry twist and he sighed again, this time not so happily.

Not being able to speak or even show you that I’m enjoying myself like this. It makes things difficult for you.

“I repeat, excuse me? Don’t you fucking dare apologize! It’s not making anything difficult, just different. Just because I need to adjust the way I do some things doesn’t mean you should ever apologize for the way you were born.” Madara glared as he leaned down to poke Tobirama in the chest, just over his rapidly beating heart. “Would I have put so much effort in to being able to ask you on a date if I didn’t think it was worth it?”

All Tobirama could do was shake his head, a reluctant smile returning to his face.

“Hmph. So I have to pay more attention, so what? I’m a shinobi. We’re used to operating in silence.”

It was such a terrible joke that Tobirama couldn’t stop his smile from growing, soundless puffs of laughter causing his chest to jerk up and down. He noted the pride in Madara’s eyes as the man watched him laughing and felt compelled to pull him down for a heated kiss. The groan that echoed in his ears only encouraged him, sending his hands wandering across the body astride his own until they had reached around to cup Madara’s bottom and tuck him even closer.

With others his own silence had always felt like a wall between them, a scream that only he could hear, but with Madara things were different in the best possible way. He may not have been able to make sounds of his own but he would always enjoy the ones he could earn from his partner; being silent himself only ensured that he would never miss any of them.

For all the words he couldn’t say, only Madara had made an effort to find another way to listen.

#rae writes #madatobi #tobirama #madara #mito #izuna #kagami #hashirama #touka #fanfiction #naruto shippuden

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izzyovercoffee · 8 years ago

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Reading through all of your stuff about mando'a and toxic masculinity etc...has it ever bothered you that the word for sheath is an awful lot like the word for woman? Cause that bothers me. Idk if I'm reading too much into it or if it's because I'm used to looking for subconscious sexism stuff in languages.

Oh yes, lmao … this has bothered me for a very, very long time. It’s very … well, it’s very offensive. There isn’t any which-way about it, and it’s not subtle whatsoever. I actually find it fairly upsetting, in the way that once you actually see misogyny for what it is, it’s impossible to then return to being blind to it.

So, I’m gonna do what I do best, and come up with an alternative word first, and then break down why that word in the mando’a dictionary is a shitty fucking word and just an overall shitty thing to do that has no context and no basis in the language, and why it has no place in mando’a.

Mostly because I intend to put the breakdown on why the word sheath, derived from the word for woman, is fucked up beneath a cut in the event people don’t want to be accidentally triggered—the fact is there are a lot of uncomfortable to violently misogynistic implications in that vocabulary decision, and while I don’t want to mince words, I also don’t want to accidentally harm anyone who’s just looking to have the alternative word.

So … Let’s find other words for sheath.

kad’gam / kal’gam / kald’gam — sword sheath / knife sheath / blade sheath

From the words for sword, blade, a smush of sword and blade bc I liked how it sounded (very scientific), and from ‘gam, a suffix used to indicate skin or a physical cover. ‘gam is not so much a word that exists on its own but rather a modifier, and its uses in beskar’gam, armor (lit. mandalorian iron skin), and pel’gam, (lit. soft yielding skin), we can infer what ‘gam is meant to indicate.

Another word for sheath:

cab’gam — protective skin

So … do we need multiple words for sheath? Actually, yes. I’d even go so far as to suggest it’s weird to only have the one.

First of all, mando’a has multiple words for blades. There are specific words that refer to very specific blades. Knives and swords are differentiated. Sheath, just as a word, should not have a one-size-fits-all term when mandalorians are very specific when it comes to the type of weapon they’re using to do battle,

Departing from the weapon terminology, mandalorians also have many words for stab. It’s to the point that it’s joked they have 80 words that are just variations of stab and the act of stabbing, of inserting a blade into a person with intent to do bodily harm.

Stabbing, to mandalorians, is a nuanced thing. It requires many different words for specificity.

Again, wrt the development of words, usually one or two is enough. To have more than that? Means that mandalorians, as a community, view nuance with weapons, and the act done with that weapon, as necessary.

So, again, because of the above … there should not be only one word for sheath. It just doesn’t fit, pardon the pun, because just as there are many different types of blades … there are also different types of sheaths. It does not do to have a requirement of specificity for the weapon, and the different ways in which to fully utilize that weapon, and then not also be specific for the protective cover of that weapon.

The logic just doesn’t follow.

And now … my breakdown on why the word for sheath, derived from the word for woman, is misogynistic, transmisogynistic, heterosexist, and homophobic all in one piss poor conlang decision.

I want to say … strong warnings for: transphobia, misogyny, cissexism, homophobia, mentions of assault, victim blaming

And yeah, I know. “All those warnings for one word?”

Yes, unfortunately. This is one of those moments where on first glance, you might know something is wrong but not how wrong, and why it’s wrong. I am going to try to explain the why alongside the how clearly, and to do that is going to touch on a lot of topics and references that are or can be upsetting.

I also just want to say when I say “you” I’m referring to a general you, and not you, the anon, specifically. In case that gets confusing. Sorry lol.

All right, here we go.

My very, very first issue: mando’a is gender neutral. Gender, as a rule, is not emphasized—it is, effectively, gender neutral.

The implications of this are, in fact, many, but at its foundations are one of two things. If a language is gender neutral, then that means:

all genders are recognized, or

no genders are recognized

There isn’t any way around that, because the language itself does not acknowledge gender except in clinical terms of “Man / Woman” that are used next to never. Anyone who uses those specific words, casually? Are imposing a gender bias onto the language that, literally, does not exist.

It’s been argued that “well you might need to know” and … I still argue that that’s just not true.

If you have two people in front of you, and you’re trying to indicate which one you’re talking about, if you’re incapable of indicating who you’re talking about without assigning them a sex or gender that you, yourself, cannot know?

Then that’s a problem with you, personally. Not a problem with the language.

This is where, if you said you need that, I would gently ask you to take a step back and consider why you think you need it. Why are you so razor focused on sex that you’re incapable of first thinking of something simple like person on the left/right, and instead immediately define someone by “apparent” sex characteristics that are not related to gender?

The originators of mando’a, the original mandalorians, in-universe, were all aliens. And they weren’t even near-humans. They were humanoid simians called Taung. Actual walking, talking, bipedal bonobos with tentacles for hair. If someone argues they also have a white, western, earth-human concepts for a sex and gender binary … I’m just going to laugh, to be perfectly honest.

First, gender neutral language doesn’t spring up by accident — it has to be reinforced by the culture to maintain its neutrality, repeatedly reinforced over centuries to millennia and, truly, value everyone in that culture regardless of gender identity.

One of the main facets of mandalorian culture? Adopting literally everyone who fits what is believed to have “the right stuff” to be a mandalorian.

I mean, not even getting into the fact that armor — real combat-purposed armor — could potentially hide or skew the person in question’s gender. Or the fact that mandalorians, as a people, regularly adopt aliens into their community — and not all alien women share the same sex characteristics. No avian species would. No reptilian species would. No amphibious species would.

So. First false assumption:

women = having a vagina

First of all, lmao. This is, factually, incorrect.

It is an outdated concept that only serves to reinforce a white, western, earth human social construction of sex and gender that is

not universal

heavily politicized

heavily policed

Here on earth, we already have countless examples of animals who are both female and don’t have “sheaths.” I’m disgusted I even had to write that, tbh, but here it is. To then impose vaginas as a standard of being women on alien species that don’t share the same gender social constructions? To assume that all men have dicks and all women have vaginas, always, forever?

A culture that literally decided that there was NO need to differentiate gender of any number … would then associate woman, a human concept, with cissexist human sexual organs that a large swathe of their population might not even have?

Well, it just doesn’t make sense. It’s not even an idea supported here on earth. There’s actually a great National Geographic article that breaks it down into simple language with a ton of resources — and I’m going to link it so I don’t have to do the same. Before this article? A metric fuckton of academic literature and studies, published articles, dissertations, books. Steeped in very heavy academic language, though, but I mean … my point is that, in space, if you’re transphobic, or a TERF, you are not a mandalorian.

I don’t make the rules, but if I did, every TERF and transphobe would be banned. Forever. Dar’manda, fuckfaces.

Furthermore, if mandalorians are known to regularly adopt in a widely varied mix of humans and aliens into their population … then having human indicators of man / woman is fucking useless.

It’s completely fucking useless.

I would actually argue that the only real use for these words is for something I’m sure the originator did not intend: which is to indicate if someone who once identified as a man has transitioned to woman, or vice versa. Then, and only then, does it actually become relevant. Before then? Irrelevant, and fucking useless to indicate.

“The woman!” “Which one, Tom?”“The one with breasts!”“How do you know they’re a woman, Tom? Did you fucking ask them?”“No, but—”“Did you think they may just have a condition, Tom?”“Well, no, but—”“What if they’re a fuckin’ lizard, Tom? What if it’s their fuckin mating season and they just happen to expanding their chests, Tom?”“I didn’t—”“Fuck off, Tom, you ori’mirsh'kyramud (fucking brain assassin).”

Here’s the thing. Human earth ideas of gender, and its associations with “sex,” are null and void, because mando’a is gender neutral and concepts tied in with how we perceive gender do not exist in the language. At all.

And, actually, going even beyond that? The above points to a severe lack of creativity, and a fear of science. Mandalorians are literally space-faring aliens who adopt other aliens of all different species and communities, and have a culture whose very foundation is emphatically gender neutral. A fear of science has no place here.

Anyway. Moving on.

Our culture, here on earth, does not value women to the fullest. It just isn’t so, as much as that grieves me to say. And I know it’s hard, but I really wish that fandom, as a whole, would stop projecting their shitty, toxic masculine views on mandalorians as “fact,” because it’s just not there. It’s, seriously, not there.

Now, I don’t know if most people are familiar with some parts of linguistic theory, but the basic thing is this: if a word doesn’t exist in language, then the people who speak that language don’t really have a conceptualization of this … well, concept. Language literally affects thinking. It affects perception. It affects how we understand and view the world. How we see and construct the world is shaped by language.

Which is why the word for sheath, derived from woman, given all the above? Is fucking garbage. It’s built entirely on false assumptions steeped in human-earth western thinking that are not, and cannot, be supported by mando’a because these concepts literally do not exist, or are even actively, and passively, contradicted in the language and the culture itself.

If you don’t get it, reread the Brain Assassin conversation, read the NatGeo article, and then come back, because I’m literally going to beat this idea to death, resurrect it, and then kill it again, in true mandalorian fashion.

Mandalorians, from every impression on the culture built from a language that is inclusive to its core, would accept easily and readily people of all gender identities, because the language literally tells us this. These things are, literally, non-issues—or they should be this way, because the gender neutrality of the language itself sets this as the very very basic foundation.

The idea that Mandalorians aren’t inclusive isn’t supported by canon. But mandalorian fandom’s inability to separate toxic assumptions from actual context, and projects toxic masculinity, sexist, transphobic, homophobic, stereotypes again and again on an entire body of people with little-to-no textual support, purely because they fit the definition of Proud Warrior Race, is a really serious problem.

How many people find interacting with the larger, more male-populated mandalorian fandom, to be threatening? How many people are more than a little concerned for the well-being of girls who, having seen Sabine, decided they want to be a mandalorian — and then went online?

I could name more than a few online mandalorian fan communities, and tbh I am very, very wary with ever recommending them to teenage girls, or even adult women, or anyone who isn’t cisgender.

There is a very real, very serious problem with fandom, specifically the men of fandom, defining and setting the tone of Proud Warrior Race as inherently as toxic as our society — when it doesn’t need to be that way. It’s just assumed, even when they’re written as diametrically opposed to the necessary beliefs that are required in order for a culture built on toxic masculinity to survive.

Anyway. Next false assumption:

woman = to be penetrated

A sheath, a scabbard, exists to be penetrated by the weapon it’s meant to cover and protect.

To then derive the worth sheath directly from the word for woman is to directly indicate that women exist to be penetrated. It also directly indicates that men are the one who do the penetrating, not women, by virtue of that above association.

God forbid the idea that women don’t exist for men, let alone that lesbians exist, or that women are more than their apparent sheath purpose.

I can’t believe I have to write this, but here I am.

How can someone purport to be creating a culture in which everyone is equal, if you’re literally sticking a word in here that directly infers that that isn’t the case. You cannot say that a woman is valued for her worth as a person, if you then create a word that reduces her personhood to her vagina — which she may or may not even have?

Listen. There isn’t an alternative way to interpret this. You cannot create a language in which the word for sheath is derived from woman without directly, blatantly, obviously inferring that women are sheaths.

Dala — womanDalab — sheath

There is no other inference. You can try to defend it, but the meaning and the intent is still inherent, and it is inherently fucked up.

There are also countless studies out there that have shown how this line of thinking can and does build a foundation in our culture for women to be victimized. To be assaulted. This is one of the major thought processes that contribute to rape — it is one of the major defenses of rape.

It implies this: if a woman exists to be penetrated, then consent is automatically given, because that is her purpose, and cannot be revoked.

And, you know, I’m sure this wasn’t intentional. I’m sure that someone who’s grown up steeped in a sexist culture would then be okay in thinking this way, and not see an issue with the above — but that doesn’t make it okay. It still contributes to a culture that actively harms more than half of its population. Intent is meaningless when it’s in support of further victimization. Intent is meaningless when it is in support of violence.

This is in support of violence. Thoughtlessly, maybe. Unintentionally, maybe. But that doesn’t change what it is, and what it implies.

I know that this is uncomfortable to think about. I know that it’s upsetting. But if your impulse is to immediately jump to “you’re overreacting!” then … I would ask that you take a step back, and ask yourself why you want to rush to accuse me that I’m overreacting. I want you to actually consider what I’m saying, to do the research, and to ask yourself if what I’m saying is true, how does it affect you? And the people around you?

Furthermore, it doesn’t make sense contextually.

Like, let’s forget, for a moment, that we live in a culture that actively promotes rape in very real, very insidious ways at multiple levels of society, that reduces women’s worth only in their relation to men, that has been concisely and clearly documented and studied for decades, and look instead at it in the in-universe context:

Once again. In a culture whose very language, the building blocks of thoughts and concepts that structure the world, does not separate people by gender in any way, why would you then have a word that inextricably links women with being penetrated? There is no consistent internal logic. It literally does not make sense within the context of the culture.

Here’s National Geographic article on gender, again.

Here’s the Tom conversation, again:

the false assumptions

the culture only recognizes 2 genders based on western, white, earth-human conceptualization of sex and gender

women exist to be penetrated

everyone is straight as fuck, I guess

Imposing straight, cis, heterocentric gender roles on a society that doesn’t even have the words to think this way makes zero sense.

IT’S SHIT WRITING, KAREN.

It’s already afternoon where I am, and yet … it is too early for this kind of insidious transphobic homophobic sexism.

It has no place in mando’a. Full stop.

Unfortunately, unless we can petition to have it removed officially from the mando’a dictionary, or unless we as a whole community agree to never use that word, it’s going to continue existing — and being used, and probably accidentally and without any realization of the implications of that word.

I would love to never see that word again. To promptly, effectively, never use it. Personally, I don’t trust people who use it casually. Accidentally? I’m sure it happens … but. In my opinion? Given that the larger mandalorian fandom is heavily steeped in toxic masculinity and casual misogyny, I have a hard time justifying its use in any context, because of the toxic masculinity and the casual misogyny. And, sadly, I don’t really have the energy to go through this again and again.

Do I have an in-universe explanation?

Yes, actually.

I posit this: dalab is a word that came as a result of misogynistic men being adopted into the fold of mandalorian society, and felt that they needed a gendered slur that would fly under the radar.

And, you know, maybe it did. Maybe it was reclaimed by cisgender human women. Maybe there’s a complicated history behind the word, and that women are divided over whether that slur has ever been reclaimed, or not.

But, I would rather we didn’t have to do that. Why do we need to introduce sexism to a culture that doesn’t support it? Why do we need a gendered slur in a language that doesn’t recognize gender in that way?

The fact is, we don’t. We don’t need to further victimize marginalized people in the one society that goes out of its way not to do that.

So. I would rather remove dalab from the dictionary entirely.

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mild-lunacy · 8 years ago

Text

The Primary Lens for Mofftiss Intent

MOFFAT: You’re talking about ‘The Gay Thing’, I think. Well, I - I... that joke exists... But the joke exists only because if two blokes did move in together in modern London, and... hung around and all, people would say, ‘You’re a couple’. That’s quite sweet, if they say it in a total non-judgemental way. ‘Oh, you’re together? Yeah, I should think that’s the case’. Um... In terms of the many... fantasies that have been unleashed on the internet... Um. Fine? Uh... You’re allowed to make it any way you like. Yes, Mark?

GATISS: Just - stop it!

MOFFAT: Um, the thing about Sherlock Holmes is, you’ve understood nothing if you haven’t understood that sex, for him, is thinking. Right? That’s where he’s dislocated, that’s the problem. He’s like a genetic experiment where they’ve wired up someone’s libido to the brain, instead. So he doesn’t really think in those terms. He thinks... all he has to do is solve stuff. Um... So, it’s not - it’s not that kind of a relationship. Uh... I don’t - it can be in your mind or anyone (else’s...) But the reality is (...) No, but the, uh... You know, it’s kind of limiting - why do we have to make it sex? You know, there are love stories that are sex scenes. Love is a bigger subject. And it’s certainly a love story. But it’s not a sex scene - I don’t think. But if other people want to make it that, they’re very, very welcomed.

GATISS: It’s also back to the whole thing about... why characters are compelling. And in the end, the ambiguity is what’s interesting, and not the solution. If you just say it... I mean, it’s obviously much more fun for people to assume and for them both to get slightly affronted, but they not really see the obvious, which is - they are (!!!) - they love each other. But not in a sexual way... Series 4, Series 4!

- Steven Moffat and Mark Gatiss, Q&A at Clapham Picturehouse, 2011

In retrospect, I think a lot of things resolve for me if I take Moffat and Gatiss at face value, here.

I know a lot of people are understandably upset by seeing this interview going around again, but their apparent honesty struck me as being particularly clear. I think if you don’t insist that Moffat really means that he’s aiming for canon Johnlock when he says it’s a love story but not a ‘sex scene’, and you simply accept that Gatiss genuinely thinks that it’s ‘the ambiguity is what’s interesting’, you come to a very simple conclusion, and it’s not that Moffat and Gatiss always intended to have canon Johnlock. This is not a receipt or any kind of proof of initial romantic intent for John and Sherlock in the show, as people have suggested even post-S4. Once you stop fighting it, it actually seems odd to me to see it that way, because both Moffat and Gatiss are explicitly saying the opposite... it’s just that the opposite of canon Johnlock, for them, is not a total ‘no homo’, per se. It’s more nuanced and ambiguous: quite self-consciously so. It also uses fundamentally different assumptions or axioms than fandom does.

Another way to put it is that I think it’s that they always intended to queerbait, if you take the definition of queerbaiting to mean a combination of using sexuality as a ‘recurring joke’ (for any reason), or ‘denying the assumptions’ of romantic interest ‘without modifying the character’s behavior’. In other words, if you focus on impact and results, it obviously is.

However, it’s not queerbaiting if you take it to mean specifically an intentional marketing scheme ‘to attract/appeal to the queer market’. That’s when you start talking about the Authorial Intent and/or what the creators are trying to actually communicate to the audience with the work. Here’s where the quote seems most useful, particularly if you use it as a lens to understand the waterfall ending of TAB.

They’ve actually explicitly illustrated their intent with the ending. Right after TAB aired, @therealmartinsgrrrl wrote a meta saying that the waterfall scene was the key to the entire series, and I didn’t realize then just how true that is. This is the moment we know, and that Sherlock himself knows, as she described: There are two of them. There have always been. It’s not Moriarty. It’s not Sherlock’s fear that wins. There’s no room for anyone else. Sherlock sees that alone doesn’t protect him, once and for all, and the whole episode resolves just as TFP does: John and Sherlock in their traditional roles, 1895 overlapping the present day. We assumed that there was somewhere yet to go after that scene, but there wasn’t; we just had to get John caught up, which happened at the end of TLD. Why? Because it’s a love story, but ‘not a sex scene’.

We have the last hurrah of the classic set up with a character (here, Moriarty) making it a bit of a joke for the last time, suggesting that John and Sherlock are together, because John is just... always there. ‘It’s certainly a love story’, and I’d say that’s clear as day. That’s part one, and it’s Moffat.

Part two is Gatiss: as he said, he thinks it’s fun for people to ‘assume and for them both to get slightly affronted’, which they do. This is the most explicit that gets in the whole show: both Sherlock and John get affronted, with Sherlock saying it’s ‘offensive’ and impertinent, even though he’s almost always silent on the subject, to the point that I’ve written recently about how suggestive that is, even if the idea is probably just that Sherlock’s simply silent on the subject of his feelings and/or romantic entanglement (even or especially to John). So as I’ve said earlier, Sherlock’s response here with that one word alone is a huge clue that they’re going to keep their private lives private on the show. The ambiguity is there, and it’s there intentionally, because the love itself is there, but at the same time (as Series 4 clearly suggests), their love isn’t meant to be sexual.

As I’ve written at length recently, I think the ‘Chekhov’s gun’ theory that ultimately forms the foundation of TJLC depends on conflating Sherlock’s sexuality and his history and self-perception as a ‘high-functioning sociopath’. The show did resolve that in TAB and TFP, but we obviously have certain aspects focused on (the false persona, the relevant history with Eurus that created it, the connection with John which shattered it), and certain aspects being subsumed by the other facets. The merely romantic gets dismissed in favor of the epic (’don’t you read The Strand?’) That line sets up and echoes the focus on ‘the legend’ of Sherlock Holmes and Dr Watson in Mary’s final monologue in TFP. Essentially, I believe that all the romantic suggestions and questions raised in the three prior seasons about Sherlock’s love life (including Mind Palace!John’s asking about Irene Adler in the greenhouse) can be seen to resolve at the waterfall scene. This is the final time the question or insinuation about John and Sherlock is raised, and it’s put to rest and resolved through their untouchable union (of the same unbreakable ‘family’ type we see reinforced in TFP, I think).

Both Moffat and Gatiss agree-- and explicitly say-- that John and Sherlock love each other, but not in ‘a sexual way’, all the way back in Series 1, and Gatiss further says that they don’t ‘see the obvious’ until Series 4. The obvious doesn’t have to be intended to mean that it is sexual after all. It could be that they don’t see what it really means and just how much they love each other (even nonsexually!) until Series 4. That is, I do think that the end of HLV already shows that the confessions in TSoT (and everything earlier in HLV) wasn’t enough, and at the tarmac the misunderstanding and that somewhat awkward distance between them remains. They don’t see the obvious bond they have regardless of anything, the truth beneath the dismissals or denials of insinuations like Moriarty’s. And I think the truth is supposed to be that it ‘doesn’t matter’, as Mary says in TFP, ‘cause of who they are together: the indelible and unbreakable duo.

Of course that doesn’t mean I’m happy about all this, or that I think the execution or the way the text of BBC Sherlock was made (even TAB!) actually communicated this apparent intent. Certain things just exist regardless of intent, and they snowball-- such as all the parallels between John and Sherlock’s relationship and the use of romantic mirrors for almost identical dialogue with Molly and Mary, as I’ve said. That’s the ‘ambiguity’ without the solution that Gatiss seems to think is part of what’s interesting about the dynamic. Then there’s stuff that’s a lot more blatantly ‘flirting with the homoeroticism in Sherlock’, as Gatiss said in 2010, like many scenes in ASiB and TSoT in particular. There’s no heteronormative way to read John’s reaction to Irene at Battersea, as I’ve written about many times, or his reactions to the pregnancy deduction at the wedding. A lot of that’s subtext because it’s about acting, but acting is certainly part of the text, and I don’t think either Ben C or Martin Freeman are rogue agents somehow. So that’s certainly textual.

My point is simply that Moffat and Gatiss declared their intentions in 2011, and have more or less stuck by their guns the entire time.

#sherlock meta #tjlc #steven moffat #mark gatiss #johnlock feels #sherlock special #narrative #queerlock #queer issues

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