#all sides of syscourse can interact (?)

[manyminded]

shout out to the systems/plurals/etc. who would not be alive without it. yes this can be painful and it oftentimes is but it’s also important to note that just as often, if not more for some of us, it can be a wonderful - or even life saving - experience.

[voiarc-draws]

*hits them with the plural beam* anyway

(headcanons under cut)

~~~

victim is a monoconscious median system

chosen & second have a psychic link. and that’s pretty plural to me. they can’t read each others thoughts (yet, it would take practice to learn how) but there is emotional bleed & memory bleed. they also share mental disorders

[nexus-nebulae]

this is a silly fun joke poll if anyone comments legit syscourse i am hitting you with my beam attack

[shattered-system]

The “Redefinition” of Systempunk

Updated version!

We're not typically an essay kind of blog, but there's something l've been turning over in my mind since l've seen it.

I have the post pulled up now actually, and about 11 hours ago @/the-alarm-system "recoined" (stole) the term systempunk in a long post, as well as designed a flag with its own meaning and I want to sort through some of it.

I also have a few personal pet peeves about their flag design, given that it's color palette clashes and the flag is way too busy. I don't expect it to spread far given that it violates several rules of good design (saying this as someone who has been to school for graphic design.)

I will not post it here, because I don't care to spread it any more than this post already may.

Their flag slightly predates my own version of the systempunk flag, but given that theirs was created for a separate concept with a stolen name, I maintain that we were the first.

We begin with their definition of systempunk.

“A term or Subculture surrounding the liberation of plurals and the critique of psychiatry."

First issue lies here. Both the destigmitization of dissociative disorders and critique of the psych field are extremely important discussions to have!

But they are separate discussions. There is absolutely overlap, but combining the two here is kind of shooting yourself in the foot, because then the conversation in that tag will be disorganized.

Have a systempunk movement AND an anti-psych or psych-critical movement. That way people can easily find the relevant discussions and terms.

This is followed up with a bit about the harm the psychiatric field has caused (not delving into that as that's not what this blog is about) and then circle back onto "the future is plural."

This is not one of the instances where OP means it in the "the future is destigmitization" sense, as they are pro endo. (On a side note, even ignoring the endo use of the phrase-- if I need to read about a slogan to understand the meaning of the slogan, it's a bad slogan. The point of a slogan is to communicate a concept quickly.)

The flag has black and brown stripes akin to the progress flag to represent systems of color, which is the only part of the design we have no critique for, but are describing anyway just as a bit of information.

The purple stripe stands for:

“Endo solidarity... endogenic systems are continuously harmed by antis who remain uncritical of psychiatry."

Once again, we are mixing two expansive concepts into one term.

The term anti-endo doesn't imply a position one way or the other on the psychiatry discussion.

Some anti-endos swear by the DSM5, others don't. Anti-endo is a term that means anti-endo/ endo-critical. That is all it means.

There is a difference between holding the DSM as the complete authority on mental illness and saying that a trauma disorder is caused by trauma.

I'm not sure if OP knows that and is choosing to cast anti-endos in a bad light, or legitimately confused. However, OP is a syscourse blog who is on a lot of blocklists and is spammy in the tags, and has likely been blocked by anyone who isn't also out looking to pick immature fights. (This is a system who made a post in all caps calling for an endo raid on #systempunk.)

Continuing directly from the last quote:

“[Antis] are against the liberation of plurals and deny a plural future in order to push singlethood onto others."

It's possible OP is referring to final fusion, which the anti-endo community is not a monolith on either. Most people we've interacted with are supporters of functional multiplicity (including ourselves.)

Most likely however, they mean that anti-endos "push singlethood" by telling endogenics that they can't have a trauma disorder without trauma.

And I could go into a whole tirade about that, but dozens of systems have done it before and I doubt any pro-endos have gotten this far. I am writing this for the anti-endo and on-the-fence audiences.

Visit @antimisinfo's helpful masterpost for a list of legitimate sources.

OP seems to believe that by “forcing” this singlethood, we are contributing directly to the oppression of systems. Hypocritically, OP themselves are contributing directly to the oppression of trauma victims.

Endogenics are not part of the "diverse experiences of plurality” (we are diverse, but united in origin) given that they don't exist. And if they did, they would have such a fundamentally different experience than trauma-formed systems that both groups would need separate language and tags to have space to themselves.

And endos already have a well-established punk tag for themselves. It seems they won't be happy until they chase trauma victims out of every space they create for themselves and steal every term. They've already stolen even the medical terminology used for CDDs.

The yellow stripe of the flag is meant to represent those with actual CDDs. Once again, psych stuff is brought up. However, I do agree with OP that those who do not want final fusion should not be pushed into it.

The pink and white stripes of the flag are entirely dedicated to anti-psych points. I think this would do wonderfully on it's own flag. But bringing the large range of discussion the anti-psych movement encompasses and the large range of discussion the CDD community has into the same tags is going to make it monumentally difficult to find the conversations you're wanting to have, and weaken both communities considerably.

There is a line of barbed wire across the flag that is partially for the same anti-psych movement as well as in favor of protecting and defending endogenic "identities." The ampersand stands for plurality.

There are fangs on the flag as well, encouraging systems to be loud and proud about their existence. And I agree that systems should make themselves known. However, endogenic systems don't exist, and their promotion will continue to drag us down.

I have read testimonies about traumagenic (real) systems being fakeclaimed or denied treatment by healthcare experts who, through exposure to endos, came to the conclusion CDDs are fake entirely.

Real systems seeking treatment and help after a lifetime of horrific abuse are being denied care.

Not to mention the setback of social acceptance by endos.

“Force plural liberation down the throats of others. Force the future to be plural."

[wondercourse]

y'know what a big pet peeve of mine is?

the phrase "this isn't for you" appended to "pro-/endos dni" on posts about trauma. usually trauma recovery. not necessarily about CDDs (though i'll get into why that's ALSO fucked up in a bit), but just about trauma in general.

i am a big believer in curating your space. i curate mine; i don't like how aggressive syscourse tends to be, so i don't engage in it in the way people may expect me to with my username being "wondercourse" lol. i don't really care what "side" they're on, what matters to me is how they treat others. it is okay for you to set boundaries surrounding your interactions with others, including those you don't want to interact with. i'm not saying you shouldn't do what you need to do to feel comfortable in your space.

but why not leave it at "dni" (this is also about the "fuck off" tag but that's a whole different conversation)? why append "this isn't for you"?

that implies that whatever kind words you said in that post, whatever encouragement you wanted to give, whatever "positive" thing you were trying to do, isn't deserved by the people you don't like.

even if someone who identifies as endogenic is a trauma survivor, "this post isn't for you".

even if they're person with a CDD who happens to "believe in" and/or support people who identify as endogenic, "this post isn't for you".

if you are "wrong" in someone's eyes, "this post isn't for you".

honestly, to me, it minimizes the words. they're not actually for all trauma survivors. they're not for all people with CDDs. they're for the ones that you find palatable. and that's...uncomfortable, to put it as kindly as i can.

and it's so unnecessary. it is not equivalent to just saying "dni". you are NOT the arbiter of what people deserve or don't, especially when it comes to trauma support/solidarity.

and maybe this is just me misinterpreting the phrase! but it just makes me skin crawl. like idk if there's really a way to justify it that would make me go "oh, i get it" because i don't (but i'm open to discussing it). why not treat each other as human beings deserving of respect and healing?

anyway, this has been a long enough post. i'm tired. i don't know if this even bothers anyone else. but it bugs the shit out of me.

oh, i was going to keep this in the tags, but this is something i want people to see: i mostly see this with people who identify with being anti-endo. but if you identify as pro-/endo and you do this "this isn't for you" thing on general positivity/recovery posts, then this is also about you. and if you don't, then it's not lol.

[snowglobe-system]

Hi! Feel no pressure to answer, but I have a few questions (regarding DID)

So I'm aware of what an endo system is, but I'm a bit confused on why it would be considered valid since the condition is directly caused by trauma, which is the thing that endos lack. Could you please explain your perspective on it? And maybe your perspective before you became pro-endo?

Hey! I've been sitting on this ask for a few days now. I do want to start out by thanking you for reaching out to me and asking about my perspective. Please note that you are not obligated to agree with me, or to change your mind just from my answer to your questions. I like having you as a mutual, and I will continue to do so regardless of your syscourse stance.

I'm going to grab a term that some of my mutuals in the DID community have used, and say I'm really more pro syscourse conversation than I am pro endo- pro endo is just the easiest way to communicate my basic stances.

I think the most important thing to understand here is that a lot of the time, the "are endos real" debate suffers from both sides fundamentally misunderstanding what the other's stance actually is. While there is a small subsection of the endo community claiming that DID isn't trauma based- which I vehemently disagree with, DID is absolutely trauma based, and that's backed by all of the research- that's not the majority.

Most endogenic systems are not claiming to have DID. They are claiming to experience themselves as more than one. I am by no means an expert on this, but I know that it is a very western-centric view to assume that everyone subscribes to being one singular self. If you want to learn more about non-western views on the self and on plurality, I would recommend looking at @system-of-a-feather's blog. They make great posts on the subject!

And- here's a real kicker- not everyone with a CDD- CDD standing for complex dissociative disorders and including the likes of DID, OSDD, P-DID, UDD, etc- actually identifies as plural. Not everyone with even DID identifies as plural. So if someone with a CDD can identify as one, what's stopping someone who doesn't have a CDD from identifying as more than one? This post puts it pretty well, so I'm just going to link it here! And if you're looking for scientific backing on endo systems? Dr Colin Ross, one of the very well known DID researchers, believes in non-traumagenic self states.

Basically, I'm choosing to believe people when they talk about their subjective personal experiences.

Now you did also ask about my anti-endo days and I will also gladly talk about those. I will admit, I was the worst kind of anti-endo. I was the type of person who would throw even other CDD systems under the bus as fakers because I wanted to seem more legitimate. Everyone who didn't present the "right" way was a faker. And endos, my goodness. They were the worst fakers of them all.

It was an extremely reactive position to take. I was suffering from my plurality, therefore everyone who wasn't had to be faking. They were making a mockery out of me! At least, that's how I perceived it.

And then I started interacting with endos, and pro endos. I realized that they were also real people, not just an abstract concept to make fun of to make myself look more legitimate. And I started reading blogs that had the rawest, realest content about CDDs that I'd come across thus far... and they were pro endo. And the arguments as to why were really good.

Somewhere along the way, I realized that the things that were leading me to being anti endo were the same things that made me into a transmed when in the 2010s. I believed that people had to meet a minimum quota of suffering to be real. In a way, I was defining people by it. And ultimately, if they are lying? It costs me nothing to believe them. I'd rather believe some liars than not believe people who are telling the truth. I've had enough experience with people not believing me. It sucks. I didn't want to keep doing that to others.

That's about the end of this yap session! Seriously, thanks again for asking, I really enjoyed writing this post. I hope I answered in a way that makes sense to you!

[steaming-system-takes]

Welcome to Steaming System Takes!

This blog was inspired by @/pipinghot-systemtakes. However, we are not associated with that blog in any way. We made this blog to combat the lack of proper structure pipinghot-systemtakes has in terms of sorting through harmful submissions, and offer this community a place to share their hot takes without having to worry about coming across harmful messages and/or misinformation.

What do we consider to be harmful?

To us, harmful submissions include submissions that promote non-traumagenic systems, have paranoia inducing messages and wording, and anything that contains any form of misinformation. This definition of the word "harmful" is rather broad, and we will be paying close attention to what each submission says to ensure nothing slips through the cracks. If need be, we have people outside of our system we can reach out to for second opinions.

Will we be accepting other mods in the future?

Yes, we will! If this blog gets to a point where we're receiving more asks than we can handle, we will open up mod applications to make sure we don't slip up and let something through that should not be posted.

Will we be posting submissions that we don't agree with?

For the most part, yes. The only exception to this is, once again, anything that's genuinely harmful or contains misinformation. We will not be sharing any of our personal opinions of any syscourse topic on this blog, only pin-boarding other people's opinions anonymously. This blog is meant for others to have a safe space to share their thoughts, not for us to share our own. In addition to that, we believe that most syscourse topics should have all sides shared to ensure that anyone looking into the issue can make a properly informed opinion on it. Above all else, that is our goal.

Something to note: If a submission is worded in a way that we can't understand, we won't post it just to be safe. If you notice that your hot take isn't being posted after a little while, feel free to submit it again with different wording!

Who can interact with our blog?

Despite us not sharing our opinions on this blog, we do have a DNI list. This includes endogenics/willowgenics/tulpas and their supporters, transID and radqueers, and anyone who claims RAMCOA isn't real.

We accept anyone with any disorder here. This blog is NPD, BPD, schizophrenic, psychosis, and mood disorder friendly. Anyone who villainizes these disorders is NOT welcome here.

Meet our current mods!

Since this blog is currently only being run by one system, our mod team consists of a few of our current/frequent fronters.

Mod Z - Also known as: Zack

Zack Foster introject, He/It pronouns, tag signoff: "mod z"

Zack will likely be the most active mod.

Mod Green - Also known as: Lloyd

Lloyd Garmadon introject, He/Leaf pronouns, tag signoff: "mod green"

Mod Dori - Also known as: Yuji

Yuji Itadori introject, He/Him + neopronouns, tag signoff: "mod dori"

Anon tags: 🥩 anon, 🐇🐇 anon, 🖥️ 💥 anon

Interested in getting to know us? Our main blog is @jabberwock-islanders!

(Divider used was made by @/bxd-decisions)

[systcmaticeras]

hi there! we're a p-did system, and figured it might be nice to try and find a sense of community somewhere, so why not try here? we've had suspicions for a while but consistently gaslit ourselves into thinking otherwise– this is our first time accepting that this in fact a likely reality and are self identifying as plural until we can get in to see a psych to confirm. we use i/me and we/us rather interchangeably for the most part and to the best of my knowledge as the host we're all okay with they/them pronouns but some of us have other pronouns we also use! now, a few rules or general topics to cover real quick:

• we are not here to engage in syscourse, we aren't professionals or doctors, it's simply not our place.

• we do not mind (pro)endos interacting, we have chosen to remain neutral on this stance as, again, we are not professionals or doctors, not our place.

• we don't tolerate hate speech or bullying, if anyone is commenting such things on our posts they will be swiftly blocked.

• we would prefer that no one under the age of 16 (bodily) interacts in dms or anything unless they need some help or support, we are 19 bodily, so we just want everyone to be safe! any ages are welcome on this page, however almost all of us do swear and have a dark sense of humor, so keep this in mind!

• we love introjects/fictives! for who we know of rn, a lot of our system is fictives, not everyone to be clear, but we've always found great comfort in different forms of media, so we assume our brain split some of the characters we resonated with the most and still continues to do so sometimes!

with all of that out of that out of the way, a brief intro to the alters as we know ourselves!

FIZZ

they/them, key-host (rarely leaves front, most others blend with or co-host with me), potential helluva boss fictive but this is unclear, i may have just stolen my name from it!

CONNOR

he/him/they/them, emotional protector, fronts occasionally, mostly during times of stress, but sometimes just when he wants to. dear evan hansen fictive.

RIFF

he/him/they/them, protector, possible gatekeeper, second most frequent fronter so far, has a typing quirk, generally pretty caring but can definitely be stubborn and sarcastic. west side story fictive.

LESTAT

he/him/they/them, role unclear, hasn't fronted for a while, tends to use french terms and a fancier vocabulary. iwtv fictive.

DALE

he/him/they/them, role unclear, rarely fronts, not very confident but extremely sweet, wants the best for everybody. newsreader fictive.

V1

they/them/it/its, persecutor, co-con frequently but unlikely to fully front, harsh, does not like others, does not care to communicate with others. they have not shared their name, thus the placeholder name of V1.

ROSALIE / V2

she/her/they/them, possible caretaker, she doesn't front frequently, we don't know much about her, very sweet and motherly. name is assumed.

V3

she/her/they/them, role unclear, pretty chill personality from what we know, hasn't fronted much, first one to inspire me to make a picrew for her, hoping to have a name soon.

P

she/her/they/them, little – role unclear, we do not plan to share too much info on her, she fronts occasionally, and absolutely loves jellyfish and ham.

ART

he/him/they/them, role not yet discovered, he's relatively new, we think he split due to recent events that caused significant duress, but he's shown up when the paranoia hits some. pretty chill so far, but extremely tired. challengers fictive.

we follow from @artsracquet !

that's about all we have for right now, but we hope to meet some fellow plurals and cannot wait to find some community here!

~ fizz

[sophieinwonderland]

Hi sophie, I'm the host very small traumagenic(could be otherwise) group(we don't ..I was hoping to give a little more perspective into why we consider ourselves "endo-nuetral". Also if this is not the correct term, maybe you can suggest another one?

We do not really care for system discourse, we find it very difficult to interact with people when they are so stuck on stances, orgins, validity etc. just so they can argue. It's a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" type of situation that's very exhausting for us, we don't have the spoons to constantly go back and forth, or try to prove of convince others to just shut up and take others point of views into consideration. We am are not anti endo at all, plurality comes in all sorts of forms and that's basic knowledge, but we use it to signal to others "we are not gonna argue about endos with you, fuck off". Ultimately we love seeing other people's opinions, and their thoughts, and their stances on certian things. But like, yk, it's just so irritating being pulled at the limbs by both sides for having opinions.

So I'm searching for a better term to just if you could possibly assist with that?

You're probably not going to like my opinion, but I think the only valid stance is pro-endo.

Like, you believe endogenic systems exist... I'm sure you agree that endogenic systems have a right to exist and not face hate for being endogenic... that's pro-endo.

If the only reason you're identifying as neutral is to avoid syscourse, that's probably going to have the opposite effect. It puts you in the middle where endogenic systems won't feel safe with you, and probably is going to encourage anti-endos to interact and argue. The reason being that they see someone on the fence, whose mind they can potentially change.

So... why not just be pro-endo? Why not embrace it?

I think the better way to signal "we are not gonna argue about endos with you, fuck off" is to be proudly pro-end, make it clear that you won't participate in syscourse, and you won't change your mind because you know that plurality comes in all forms.

Sure, you may still get hate. But it's only going to be coming from one side, and probably even less from that side because they know they won't be able to bully you into submission.

I just don't see the value in taking any sort of middle ground. It's not going to keep you out of discourse. It's not going to protect you from anti-endos. And it's actually likely to pull you more into discourse than if you had actually firmly picked a side.

[yourpeepysucksdotorg]

Looking back on my syscourse days with the wisdom of age, I feel as if I can pinpoint a single psychological concept that explains why syscourse is so prevalent to begin with, and why it’s so toxic and inescapable; group polarization. Basically, people are more likely to come to extreme conclusions or make risky decisions when in a group with those sharing the same ideologies, even though most members of the group will have the same core beliefs that aren’t nearly as radical.

In syscourse, this most often occurs when people debate the validity of endogenic systems. It also makes it impossible to have a good-faith discussion on the matter.

I’m not endo-neutral, and while my thoughts on the matter can be found elsewhere on my blog, I’ll remain neutral for the sake of this post making it to as many people as possible, because I genuinely believe so much fighting could be stopped if we just recognized the unhealthy patterns we’ve fallen into. Disordered systems who are anti-endo seem to blame endogenic systems for a lot of things, and while I’m not endogenic, I can pretty accurately guess that having a bunch of strangers tell you that you make their lives worse by expressing your identity makes you feel shitty. This keeps the two communities separated outside of verbal spats, and of course, after these spats, members of both communities will want support. Once again, I can’t speak from the endogenic perspective. But I know that anti-endos will continue to perpetuate that endos are bad, that you didn’t do anything wrong, that they’re just dumb and stupid. Which, I can assume this keeps endogenic systems in constant defense mode, as they constantly have to check which system blogs or servers are or aren’t okay to interact with, out of fear of being attacked by other systems, or worse, becoming some kind of lolcow for singlets.

When both sides feel like they’re being attacked, no productive discussion can be had. Once again, I do have my own opinions on the matter, but right now, I’m really just advocating for all systems to treat each other like living beings. If someone is being terrible to you, there’s no pressure to fight back. Just block them. While that one person might be an asshole, there are so many more people who care about you, support you, and want you to exist more than you even know. This is a saying as old as time, but don’t feed the trolls. Don’t aggressively retaliate, because you’re just giving them more material to bend to their will. And if you’re the one perpetuating assholery, just stop.

Maybe I’m just being an optimist, but I believe that so much syscourse could become irrelevant if we realized that the world isn’t black and white, and there aren’t good and evil systems. We’re all in this together, singlets are still gonna treat us like we’re nuts. We need to stand united rather than push each other further and further away.

[syscultureis]

(Vent) Plural culture is making a system blog to interact with the system community on tumblr and deleting it the very next day due to all the discourse. Specifically, the anti vs. pro endo bullshit. Both of you shut the fuck up, this is the most annoying fucking discussion I've ever heard. Neither of these sides are right or wrong, both are fucking braindead though. Can you tell I'm fucking annoyed by this whole thing. We can't enjoy a community we belong to because all there is, is fighting between a side that supposedly doesn't belong here, and a side that will do anything in it's power to make sure they stay excluded. I blocked all syscourse tags, and my dash looked like I had blocked almost every tag in existence, 8/10 posts were syscourse. What the fuck does anyone hope to achieve with this bullshit? You don't like someone, fucking block them and move on, don't make it everyone else's problem and start a whole war about it. Grow the fuck up.

– A very annoyed and pissed off traumagenic system

.

[manyminded]

ily plurals ily neopronouns users ily plural neopronouns users, either by specific headmate or collectively

[voiarc-draws]

fictive bomb 💥💥💥

[sysmedsaresexist]

We really need to come up with better terms for syscourse stances because the main ones aren't cutting it

Anti endo can mean everything from staunch disbelief and bad, aggressive posts to completely believing that endogenic systems are real and valid but not wanting them to interact with CDD-specific content

Being pro endo can mean someone believes DID is caused by trauma and that the CDD community must be protected above all else, to people actively villainizing CDD systems and everything in-between

Endo neutral can mean everything from not caring at all about syscourse and refusing to engage, to allowing interaction from all sides without judgement despite personal beliefs

Anti-misinformation had promise at one point in reference to the massive amounts of misinformation in both communities, but it wasn't working

Any and all of these labels can mean you think the DSM or ICD directly affirms endogenic systems and they can also mean that person has never picked up a DSM in their life

NONE OF THESE ARE WORKING

None of them are accurate

None of them convey the full picture

These are useless labels

(I don't want to hear a peep about the syscourse code, that's not cutting it either, no one has time for that)

People getting upset over pro endo mods on anti endo blogs don't realize that you can share the exact same beliefs about science and the communities and use opposing labels.

Some pro endo blogs should try putting an anti endo on their team to control misinformation and point out ableism, seriously, interaction is how you start learning, anti endos seem more willing to take that step than pro endos and that's pathetic

I also think it might be good to remove the focus from the validity and acceptance of endogenic systems (anti/pro endo) and place it back on what's important-- protecting traumatized individuals

Maybe something like "#CDDs first" can convey that your intention, attention, and audience will always prioritize the CDD community and their safety, but even that... someone can be well-intentioned when they misquote things

I don't know, I'd love to hear the communities' thoughts-- both pro and anti, I'd like this to spread around a bit, I think it's important that people realize that labels don't mean there's disagreement on ideas and concepts-- a pro endo can share the same goals and ideas as an anti endo and vice versa

For example, at this point, I'll happily interact with anyone who agrees that DID is a childhood trauma disorder. That's it. That's my bar. No more, no less. There are pro endos who believe the exact same things I do on all fronts, despite calling me anti endo.

It really just doesn't make sense.

Maybe together we can come up with something better

[scapeg8ats]

(Sorry for this being a long post, it became a rant/vent and a lot of thoughts. Someday I'll shut up about this I SWEAR lol. There's a TL;DR at the end.)

Maybe I'm not even interested in syscourse outside of learning more about plurality and its connections outside of CDDs and why someone may see themselves as plural or really any way of not seeing oneself as One Singular Self (whether it has to do with a disorder or it's a cultural/religious/etc. reason). Or I guess that does make me interested in syscourse. Just not echo chamber syscourse.

Like I'm sorry but y'all are fucking mean. I LOVE having discussions where I can learn and understand other perspectives. I guess to steal SAS's label, I'm very pro-syscourse conversation (though—and this isn't to bash SAS AT ALL—to me that feels redundant because syscourse is supposed to be conversation anyway. But it's not so the label is necessary). I want to learn. I want to be educated. I want to discuss this, even with people who disagree with me, because I want knowledge of other perspectives.

But it is so hard to find syscourse spaces that AREN'T echo chamber syscourse spaces. The desire to attain knowledge is stomped out by attaching inherent morality to labels that can be boiled down to one argument: Do you or do you not believe that plurality is exclusive to CDDs?

And shockingly this has more nuance than "endos are/n't valid". What may cause someone to see themselves as plural without a CDD? And the answers are vast and could be a FASCINATING discussion. Not even necessarily a debate, just learning more about people. And yet the answer to this question isn't even considered before so many people just go "[extremely loud incorrect buzzer noise]" and shut it down.

Maybe, ironically, this is me struggling to understand perspective. But I don't understand the lack of interest in wanting to understand, despite having experienced it myself. And even that, I want to understand. But I know that the fact that because of the nature of my opinions, I would be marked pro-endo, and shut out of that discussion. And it's INFURIATING because I respect the fact that they don't want to interact with me but I just don't understand!

There is endless room for discussion that's shut out and it's frustrating. It's heartbreaking. I want there to be discussion. But there won't be until the echo chambers start to open their fucking eyes.

I remember the moment for me was when someone in the Twitter dissociatwt community who I really respected, who always provided good resources, who was reliable and kind and honest...was pro-syscourse conversation. And my knee-jerk reaction was almost betrayal. How could someone that I respected be a pro-endo??

But I realized that they didn't stop being reliable because of this. Some of y'all will discount doctors who have been studying plurality, trauma, and dissociation longer than some of you have been alive because they're a stinky smelly "pro-endo". Therapists and doctors and the like who go "Why isn't it possible" get discounted because of this when they, too, just want to understand. Because with all due respect and in the most positive way, they're a bunch of nerds. And I don't understand. I don't understand how you can do that.

And that's really the thing. I don't understand and I'm not given the space to understand because my stance is somehow morally wrong. I'm not virtue signaling right. Sometimes for both sides. And it's awful.

TL;DR, I don't understand and am frustrated by echo chamber syscourse. That's it. That's all this long-ass post is saying. I don't get it. It didn't need a post but a lot of me just started Talking and did not stop.

[nondisordered-cringe]

Respect in syscourse - An Anti endos view.

[ID: respect in syscourse, an anti endos view] PLEASE READ THIS! ITS IMPORTANT!!

All sides of sysblr may int with my posts. Just be respectful. OKAY SO! Hi! I'm ND-C! An anti endo here to tell you; "what the heck are u doing?" We are anti endo, but we are much more anti harassment. It is clear we need to make boundaries, especially because people I KNOW are being sent death threats because of their views.

Lines to NEVER cross over.

[ID: Lines to never cross over]

If someone has a differing opinion, dont harass them over it. Anti Endos and Pro endos, this is to you. If you are triggering people over their views, dont do that! it is never okay to trigger people.

Even if we all are different people and have different views, we are all physically human. You do not have to cut someone out of your life because they are pro/anti endo. It should NEVER be just based off that. I've met many pro endos who are genuinely wonderful people behind the screen. Never judge a book by its cover, EVER.

DNIS, how they work here.

[ID: dnis (do not interact) how they work here] This feels like it should be given, but - if someone says pro/anti endo dni, and you are that, do not interact. Leave them be, block them if you have to, and move on. "Why do you have to include this?" because alot of people interact with those who say: "hey if your (stance), dni" Yes, exceptions can be made, however you should never interact with someone who doesnt want you to interact if you can.

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The point i want to make here- we are all beings. we all have a limited time on this earth. Dont spend it bullying someone else, regardless of their stance. It is not worth your time.

[ID: The point i want to make here- we are all beings. we all have a limited time on this earth. Dont spend it bullying someone else, regardless of their stance. It is not worth your time.]

END: FEEL FREE TO INT! We are anti endo, but we dont mind.