#Tw therian discourse

[mewos-laptop]

Physical therians are valid,

Chosen therians are valid,

Mentally ill therians are valid,

Delusional therians are valid,

Traumatized therians are valid,

And all of you need to SHUT THE FUCK UP about them before I start making blocklists of your pathetic asses.

[a-minke-whales-tale]

Delusion, Clinical Zoanthropy

I am a clinical zoanthrope. I have schizophrenia. If you have read my posts or blog before this should be no surprise as I am quite open about it. These labels that have been put on me affect nearly every aspect of my life, and greatly affect how I interact with the community. There is often a lot of discussion surrounding ideas of physical identity, delusion and if these things should be acceptable within the community or how to handle these topics.

Length: 3676 words

TW: delusions, reality checking, mentions of medical abuse

The year before last, I had spent quite a bit of time working with another academic to construct a historical materialist analysis of therianthropy. Historical materialism for people who are not familiar is a method of analysing history through the lens of production and class society. In particular, given the apparent wealth of historical therianthropy among “primitive” society, and the narrow niche of modern therianthropy, as well as my own treatment at the hands of the medical system, I wished to understand the origins of the oppression of therianthropic identity. I have to date not completed the project for a number of reasons - limited available literature regarding the transition from pre-class society to slave society particularly regarding religious and spiritual beliefs, personal health and time, and forcing myself to create a complex system of double bookkeeping and analysing my experiences through a materialist lens essentially constantly and forcibly reality checking myself constantly was very taxing.

Although I did not get to the state to write and publish the paper, I did learn a fair bit, and I think the most important concept within this discussion is the concept of delusion and how we define it. There is a common vulgar definition of delusion as believing anything that is not real or not backed by scientific consensus. But then there are many things people believe which is not backed by scientific consensus. While certainly there are people who would say that anyone who believes in ghosts or the Christian God are delusional, nearly half of the people in my country believe in God, however we lack any materialist evidence at this point for such a thing. The state of being identified by others as delusional comes with some pretty serious consequences, it should be noted though that these consequences are not applied to people who believe in God. Similarly, there are times when scientific consensus is simply wrong. Is the man who rejects the inherent inferiority of the [Sub-saharan Afrikan] race because of their skull shape and “thick skin” delusional? We today would collectively say no. For a man in the early 19th century, this would have been scientific consensus even if now we should find such a thought abhorrent. Was he then delusional? (Though some people did try to justify slaves escaping as a mental health condition Drapetomania, and historical terms like madness are often connected to modern terms like delusion and psychosis). I think often modern humans can create an almost religion out of science and progress and belief in their own rationalism - that not only is there absolute objective truth, but they can and do know it all in this particular moment, and that the society they exist within does not effect an impact on their view.

It is important to understand that delusion has a fairly specific definition and caveat when talking in a medical definition. That important caveat is that the belief conflicts, or is not standard, within their culture or subculture. Not only that, the belief must be very fixed and firmly set which does not respond/change to the presence of outside evidence. This cultural context is an important factor in the diagnostic criteria for delusions, as well as dissociative disorders like OSDD and DID (it may well be important for other conditions diagnostic criteria as well though I lack experience to speak on that topic).

Delusions -are- very much socially defined. I make the joke often that a rich man hears the voice of God he runs for office, I hear the voice of a spirit and need to be on antipsychotics. There are a number of examples namely in SEA where the experience of transforming into another animal would be considered entirely within the range of normal possibility (though notably with tigers primarily). There are also cultures and practices in which physical transformation is not considered delusion but a normal part of ritual notably among the Xan peoples. Among some Siberian cultures as part of hunting some will take essentially the mind of a wolf. In South Asia there are also recorded practices in which a person’s soul is bonded to and moved to an animal’s body in the night. Most people those reading this might encounter day to day would think these are surely delusions, but for those people, it is just a normal part of life and culture.

Most people here would collectively agree that therianthropy is not a delusion, however from outside the community many easily could argue it. You -are- human, you can look at your body and it and see that it -is- human. If you argue for past lives, there exists no evidence supporting that and no evidence supporting the existence of spirit or plausible explanation beyond hallucination despite many attempts to measure their existence. Nor do you have the instincts of that animal because you are clearly a human, and any "instincts" you might have are phantoms of the mind or attaching to a certain animal as a way to manage your life. However neither of these explanations would be acceptable nor would they convince you that you are wholly and entirely human.

Similarly with transgender identity, people here would collectively agree that is not a delusion. But 60 years ago? Or among transphobes? You are experiencing a delusion. You are obviously a wo/man, and no amount of hormones, [presentation], or [surgery] will change that. We would all collectively say fuck that shit, but you know who agrees under certain circumstances? WPATH in their Standards of Care directly notes among certain conditions of transgender identity as delusion (or at least in their old SOC before informed consent became common). It is common for people with schizo-spectrum disorders and higher level structural dissociative disorders to be denied care, or to face significant pushback. But this can also be true for all sorts of other “less serious” conditions such as austime, adhd, depression etc. This is something I have faced, and who knows how many others have faced it as well.

But what a delusion is very much defined by perspective and culture. It is easy when sitting on the "non-delusional" side of a cultural belief, to believe the order of things is logical. However, when I must construct materialist explanations of experiences, a task for which I am forced as part of double bookkeeping, the differences between my "delusional" experiences, and others "nondelusional" experiences especially in regards to therianthropy is one of degree, not of kind. Do not make the mistake to think that in other scenarios, other cultures, your experiences may be seen as delusions, and in other places, mine as natural and grounded in reality.

My experience as a clinical zoanthrope has left me often feeling quite divorced from the community, that I am separate, unwelcome, or an interloper in what is supposed to be my own community. I have been in the community for a while, but only at certain points felt comfortable to really call myself therian, a feeling which is again waning. There is a strong push constantly against physical identity. Even the most (in)famous phrase in wider culture about therians is the “on all levels except physical I am a wolf”. However this pushback against physical identities, especially from the concerns over P-shifter cults and abuses, created an environment that for me to be tolerated, I would have to constantly “show insight” or really reality check myself, and ensure all the others there knew that I knew my experience was not real and was not like their experiences were (that theirs were real and different). I still often have to do the dance describing my experiences, and even in the terms I use for myself as a clinical zoanthrope is indirectly that same dance.

The therian community often prides itself on how accepting it is. Though to be honest, I really have to question if this is the case. I have always felt unwelcome by the broader community. But so have very many others. It always strikes me that whenever I really share my experiences, how many others really relate to that feeling of not feeling wholly secure or belonging within the community. My orca friend, Ike, has talked quite a lot how they simply did not join the community for so long for feeling unwelcome. Sharing my experiences on a discord server a few weeks ago I learned another member was also a zoanthrope but had never shared it for fear of ostracization. A number of others expressed sentiments of feeling not total included, some for shift strengths, some for things like sexuality, theriomythics often get excluded, etc. Heck, by some accounts even the transition to the term Therian away from Were was an effort to include more people besides just shapeshifters.

Really when you think about it, it is not surprising so many people feel excluded in various ways. Therians have all these lines that you have to sit inside of and not cross to be acceptable to the community. But when you try to actually measure those lines many are not only extremely blurry, but vary person to person. Indeed my own experience is that there are people that do accept me, even if the wider community does not, and that is really the only reason I stayed.

The community has historically for instance a pretty hard stance on delusion and hallucination. The question though is, when does a shift move from being a socially acceptable phantom shift, to an unacceptable hallucination. For me in particular, my sensation of shift goes through a fairly long process of getting more and more intense, but it is also really a quite smooth process. It is like following a colour line, when does ‘blue’ truly begin? The first sensation is often a slight tickling, and very light phantom touch that you can sort of see through the feeling on your body. Beyond that the sensation gets more intense and becomes bothered from having things push against or intersect it. Further it begins to have not only form but colour and texture, but still if I look at the limb I cannot see it, I still see a human limb, though I do not expect it. Further the visual appearance comes in more and more until eventually my human parts are gone, transformed into animal parts I can see and I can touch. When we write it out like this it is pretty separately defined, but in the process this occurs for me, it is very smooth.

After enough quantitative change, there is a qualitative change, but where and when that occurs is hard to say. I think the first two experiences are very common among therians. I think the third experience is also fairly common but that starts to get more and more into the blurry lines, and if you cannot see where that line is you are likely to downplay your own experiences for fear if you say too much, you will be excised or ostracised from the community. But this fear also has the doubly cruel aspect that you can never really know where that line is because many people downplay their experiences to make them palatable, and so though many others might share in these experiences, people simply do not speak of them because they only see either extreme being shared, the particularly minor shifts being accepted, or the extreme shifts being sorted into delusions. I think it creates a false binary from a spectrum of experiences.

So many of these blurry lines exist though. What age can you be taken seriously? What platform do you use? How many kintypes is too many? Theriotypes being too common? Theriotypes being too rare? Are paleotherians acceptable? Are theriomythics acceptable? Can a dragon be a therian? Can an otherlinker or copinglinker have their identity so long it becomes therian? Are beastly animals from fictional settings acceptable or should they be with fictionkind? What sort of sexual and romantic expression is allowable? Is transspecies an acceptable identity? Some of these are blurry, some of them are clear, but they all wiggle around in different ways of some people will find them acceptable and some not. This leads to people self-censoring to the safe answers that they know are acceptable and prevents them really exploring their own identities, but also these questions within the community as it learns and grows and becomes more inclusive. In a certain irony, therianthropes as a community, are actually quite demanding in their conformity while preaching of their acceptance.

There has been a significant push in recent years to give greater levels of inclusion to therians with both delusional identities and physical identities. People are generally more accepting of zoanthropes and at points I have felt comfortable even to call myself therian and not just a member of the community. But there are also a number of additional terms, namely endel and holothere, which cover these experiences. However, something I note often when people talk why I as a clinical zoanthrope can be acceptable, while P-shifters and at times holotheres cannot, still comes down to that I acknowledge my experience as delusion. When I read the experiences of at least some p-shifters and holotheres, often the difference really is not so great, I often see their experiences mimicking or mirroring my own. I do use the word clinical zoanthropy, which on some level does indicate an understanding I know that at least others see my experiences as not real. This is a pretty common feeling among zoanthropes, we use this word, we know the humans think our experiences are not real, but they are incredibly real to us.

The question then is what should be done with us? There is a lot of comment that allowing us in the community to share our experiences or not reality checking people is encouraging delusion. People also say that delusions are harmful and that we should seek medical help. There are quite a few people who even wish to excise or isolate those who are anti-psychiatry and anti-recovery from the community.

If I am forced to analyse my experiences through a materialist and distant lens, it is quite clear my experiences are heavily rooted in delusion. I am a scientist, and there is no means under current knowledge to explain what I experience except hallucination - still I believe it fully. My knowing this is the only logical explanation does not lead me to believe it, to truly believe it inside. I mentioned before I had to give up on projects I did really enjoy because forcing myself to continuously deny my experiences and continuously reality check myself, brought to me very much distress. There are times I have wanted to be reality checked, but for vast part that is the remainder it is really distressing. It is distressing to be told a core part of your identity is not real, to be told the you that exists isn’t the real you, and sometimes see people mourning the “sane you”. Individuals in the community are not going to solve my “delusion” by reality checking myself or others.

Nor will them blocking me from the community or ensuring I do the dance for them encourage my “delusions” away. Delusions are heavily fixed experiences, and though you can encourage them in certain ways (think the example of people making “in your walls” jokes at schizophrenics), us talking about and sharing our experiences with each other and in our own community helps us feel understood and a sense of belonging. There are so few of us to start with, and the community closest to us either often disallows us, or makes us sit at the edge never really able to join. All banning us does is further isolate us, and for many delusions reinforces that we will never be acceptable or tolerable to others and it is best we are alone so we don’t hurt others with our presence.

I cannot speak on every person’s delusions, but I can speak on my own. For the question of if delusions are harmful, I think it often asks the wrong question. Who is it harmful to? Under what framework? Who thinks it is harmful? What does the patient want? I think one could say that my delusions of turning into a whale do harm me. I have trouble to interact with humans, I cannot work a full time job, I struggle in relationships, many nights I lay on the couch stuck for hours simply unable to move. These are all pretty negative things no? But it fails to ask why are these things harmful? A doctor looks through a very human framework and sees that I cannot do the human things and sees that I must have a poor quality of life and these delusions need to be addressed. But I am a whale and it is a core part of me, these things can be distressing, but whales cannot interact with humans the same way two humans would, work a full time job, have relationships with humans, and if you stuck them on a couch they would also not be able to move. This all is distressing and perhaps harmful, but then what other option is there? What the humans offer to me as solution is far worse.

I am anti-recovery, at least for myself. I think it is important to ask what does recovery look like? For me recovery would be to return to the water where I belong. But the humans would certainly say otherwise. For them recovery would look like fitting into and functioning within human society - having a job, a house, a car, a husband, kids, going on holiday, etc. I am not a human and I do not wish to be a human and live among them. However what is worse is how the humans would go about fixing that. I have been locked in hospitals, I have been strapped down, I have been sedated, I have been put on horrible meds that destroyed things I cared about and have often left me a shell of a person (there is a reason they were marketed as a chemical lobotomy). Some things I have gotten better in over time, and I can hold a job for the moment, even quite technical and difficult jobs.

However, the damage done to me from the humans was severe. Although I can talk about being a whale as delusion, the why is really far more impactful and distressing in my life. I was taken from the water, turned human, and am a useful thing for the humans. This understanding of myself as merely a tool and something the humans can do whatever they want with me is the real distressing aspect of my life. For me, the ‘help’ I received at the hospital only strengthened and set this delusion in so much firmer. I can look back at certain experiences, I can see the humans don’t have the technology to do what they did to me, but then I also have those years in the hospital, those years where everything was very apparent and clear and something that others can confirm and it seems to only further make plausible the experiences of the past, and those in the present the fear for what the humans will do to me. I know that I am deteriorating, I am struggling more and more, but nothing the humans offer me will make things better, they will only hurt me more, and if I ask for help, and reject it, they will only see it as proof I need the help more and force it onto me, which will only further reinforce that delusion.

If someone wishes to see a doctor and talk about therian things, I do often warn them of caution for what happened to myself and I do not want others hurt that way. I also urge them to think about what they want as the outcome from that discussion or what they hope will happen. A lot of mentally ill people have been hurt by doctors who thought they knew best, and once something is said, it cannot be undone. However, in the end they are free to decide what they will, and are free to navigate the medical system if they think it will benefit them.

For myself, I struggle to believe that doctors would really help me and instead work to help myself and my cetacean friends so that maybe someday we could swim again and swim forever. That we can fix ourselves and heal. That in time the deep scars across our bodies might start to fade and look like the scars of other captive cetaceans. That instead of surviving merely trying to please the humans to not be hurt, that we might actually -live- and have the life we were denied.

We are still people with agency, agency to choose our own path, to choose what brings us joy, to decide what we want from life, and from our healthcare. Or at least we should be granted that agency. We should not be excluded from the community or forced to dance around our experiences as not real for the comfort of others who happen to lie on the other side of the sane-delusional line, afterall the positioning of that line is very arbitrary and could easily swing to find yourself on my side of that line.

~ Kala

[wulfbones]

day 4,032 of tiktokers being misinformed...

just a quick news flash for anyone who may agree with these comments:

lesbians can use he/him pronouns! lesbians can want to be called someones boyfriend! lesbians can use masculine terms! lesbians don't have to fit your standards to be valid!

this is day 1 stuff, what are we doing? grow up.

[flinnir]

am I the only one who doesn't really understand why some humans are obsessed with this idea of predation?

like idk? just as a dragon, just really weird to see people aesthetize us as predators, especially when they make a point to shit on prey animals. I used to view myself as a prey animal due to trauma, but I think I'm just not either? I have a draconic prey drive, but I resonate more with being a scavenger.

my mom is really weird about hating on prey animals, saying they're weak and dumb, and like?? do you know how hard it is to survive in a world where predators are constantly hunting you??

like it just makes me think of the "haha I'm so cool and edgy and better than dumb prey animals!" like bro... you do realize that lions and wolves and eagles are literally just eating to survive right? they're not having the "i'M tOtAlLy AwEsOmE" Olympics for social funsies. they're not killing just to fuel their egos.

[moth-yea]

Ookay abt the animal packers drama (TW FOR ABLEISM/ABLEIST LANGUAGE, ANTI THERIAN, PHYSICAL THERIAN, AND HOLOTHERE LANGUAGE. TW FOR MENTIONS OF ZOOPHILIA/DISCOURSE AROUND ZOOPHILIA. THE TOPICS WILL BE SEEN IN THE SCREENSHOTS IM SHOWING.)

Here's some screenshots of comments on a yt community post from a popular creator telling people to dni if you support the person who makes the animal packers (image id in alt text)

I'm speechless right now. Genuinely. It's all making my mind spin. For now I'm just going to say a few things, might add more in rbs later.

1: Minors can have packers (imo). They're for dysphoria, there's really nothing wrong with them. Maybe it's sort of iffy, which is understandable and I completely respect beings who think that minors shouldnt be allowed to have packers, but honestly I think teenagers are allowed to have packers if it helps them so much.

2: This isn't zoophilia. In any sense. This being was making and selling these purely as species affirming gear. It wasn't advertised as anything related to zoophilia/beastiality. They (from my knowledge) weren't even hyper-realistic.

3: The last person targeting physical therians and therians who experience delusions is using logic. I just can't fathom. Being a physical therian and/or having delusions as a therian doesn't make you a bad being.

4: I obviously respect you if you personally think this (animal packers) is a bit of a strange thing to do, I obviously respect you if you personally don't want to have an animal packer. That's fine, and that's just your opinions and feelings. The only thing I would criticize someone for is if they are calling something that makes another being feeling better about their body disgusting, vile, zoophilic when it isn't, "too far", the reason why therians get so much hate along with physical therians/ therians that expirience delusions/holotheres, or pornographic.

That's all we have to say for now, we'd appreciate it if you add your thoughts/insight in rbs/comments (not forcing of course, you're free to do what you wish with this post).

[purple-space-aliens]

in the therian community -and by extension the alterhuman community- we happen to have a ceratin issue that many of you do not acknowledge whatsoever, even though i think it is arguably one of -if not the- biggest issue in the community. this issue happens to be our actions towards others, whether it be directly or indirectly.

our community is quite hostile, and unnecessarily so. this is seen a lot towards physical alterhumans (less recent but still present) and chosen therians (more recent) in particular. they are often said to be harmful to the community, which is not really true and seems more like an excuse for their unkind behavior. i often see people defending this behavior by claiming it is misinformation in the case of chosen therians, or harmfully delusional in the case of physical alterhumans. these things are not good reasons to treat each other this way. someone else choosing to be a therian does not hurt you, and they are not harming the community either. physical alterhumans are not harming the community either, regardless of being delusional or not. i will not be going over physical alterhumans or chosen therians in detail in this post as there are already many posts about the former and i am not a part of the latter.

truthfully, it doesn't really matter what the origin of someone's alterhumanity/therianthrophy is. many of you are much more focused on the origins of other people's alterhumanity (which is not any of your business as their life is not yours) rather than the experiences of their alterhumanity. you seem to forget that the point of this community is to share experiences, not debate origins. of course not everyone is going to be alterhuman for the same reason, that is part of the sharing of experiences. not everyone here is going to be like you and you need to remember that, and treat them as such. putting others down for not being the way you are is gross and immature. calling people bad things over who they support is gross and immature. kicking people out of this community for harmless things is gross and immature.

the last thing i really wanna touch on here is that we need to have this community. the people that hate us? they hate all of us, each and every single one because they hate what we are. they don't care about why we are this way, they hate us all the same. they want us to tear ourselves apart because they think we're freaks in a bad way. if we want to be recognized in a better light, we need to stop fighting and work together for once. if we’re all working together despite the hate from the outside, things will improve. the only condition is that we can’t leave each other behind in the dust. we are stronger together than we are apart.

[alterhuman-culture-is]

Cladotherian culture is knowing you'll probably get called fake by some people.

-

[cecilthecowardly]

maybe as a community we shouldn’t use tiktok therians and otherkin as a scapegoat for very real issues within our community that exist everywhere beyond tiktok. maybe blaming one place but doing nothing to educate is just perpetuating the issue because nobody is bothering to make those spaces more welcoming to everyone. i’venseen the exact same issues everyone complains about on tiktok RIGHT HERE. tumblr isn’t this wonderful safe haven for the Good Righteous Therians. this isn’t how you treat your community. this isn’t exclusive to the otherkin and nonhuman community — i’ve seen discourse like this in queer spaces on twitter for example — but in light of recent events i think we should just focus on education and pointing out the flaws in these oftentimes younger/newly discovered therians’ ideas of therianthropy, how it varies between everyone, etc

[a-minke-whales-tale]

The Zoanthrope "Exodus" and P-shifter discourse

There has been a fair amount of talk lately about a zoanthrope exodus, which is particularly ironic timing given Passover starts next week. I do not think there is actually a zoanthrope exodus, not because zoanthropes are not getting fed up with how we are treated and people deciding to not call themselves therian anymore or post in therian spaces, but because this is not new, this is not sudden, and it is not all at once.

Length: 1834 words TW: sanism

I have written a fair few times now about how the therian community has treated myself and others. I for years did not feel comfortable to call myself therian. I existed in therian spaces but I was an interloper. I stayed in therian spaces because I felt really I had no where else and because some places did tolerate me in time. However there was always a price for being tolerated, that being "the dance" - in which I would have to make clear my delusions, make clear that I was seeing a doctor, and minimise the validity of my own experiences and often reassure -real- therians their experiences were different from mine and real.

I have not met terribly many other zoanthropes through the past decade or so. I have met a few here and there but our interactions were always fleeting. Few would stick around in therian communities because of how we are treated. The endless demands to explain your delusion or censor yourself, people would always come and go. I have met a couple zoanthropes that just would not talk about their experiences so they could hide among therians and have the limited community they were allowed. I have also met zoanthropes that existed in P-shifter communities rather than therian communities because they simply were not allowed to exist in therian communities.

The therian community has long tried to "protect" itself and root out P-shifters to a point of zealotry. To be honest I do not care to reclaim the term P-shifter, but I can understand why many would want to. P-shifter or accusations of being a P-shifter have been used against zoanthropes for as long as I have been in the community. It becomes a demand to kowtow and reality check yourself and deny any of your experiences as real or genuine and that they are delusion. And then from there it would be decided if you were allowed to stay in the community or be removed anyway. Accusations of P-shifter have been used for a long time to downplay or deny the experiences of zoanthropes and remove us from spaces that we are ostensibly supposed to belong to. To very many therians, your experience being from "delusion" makes the experience much less valid, despite that under certain circumstances their own identity could easily be declared delusion.

People say and tell me that P-shifters are dangerous and are a cult and how P-shifters hurt and abuse others. I have to wonder though if that is "inherently all P-shifters" or just a perception because of who and what people talk about. There have been many times in many discourses that the opposing side becomes flanderised into this horrible abusive monster or are considered deeply problematic or inherently harmful - shipping discourse, syscourse, radqueers, MLs vs anarchists, etc. I have no doubt that there are P-shifters that have deeply hurt and damaged other people, but this is something that many I have talked to acknowledge and understand. Some people say that the term never was applicable to delusional people, but then I have heard the same thing about 'therian' from many therians, a statement I know does not represent -all- therians. And I should ask as well, what about those zoanthropes who would not or could not double bookkeep? How many of them may have found themselves in P-shifter communities and associated themselves with that? Of the dozen or so zoanthropes I know, it is two or three.

At least for myself, my relationship with therians has been more abusive and done more damage to me than my interaction with P-shifters. It does really become an abusive relationship where I am reinforced over and over how those people over there are dangerous, how they would hurt and abuse me and how here is the only place that I can be tolerated so long as I know that I am lesser than they are and not a -real- therian. I never interacted with those communities until around a year ago because of what I was told, and those that I have interacted with, do in many ways remind me of my own experiences, and many of them have been far more accepting than therians.

People often say that we should find a different word and that it is really about the word and nothing else. But it isn't; it was never about the word and it was never about the problematic individuals. Whenever the topic of P-shifters come up there is almost always this same question of "why are [CLCZs] accepted in the community but P-shifters are not?" The answer always comes down to that we (CLCZs) acknowledge our experience as delusion, while P-shifters do not or that we do not make claims about "Capital-R reality". If it was truly the problem being that it was the word P-shifter, the response would not be relating to or predicated on our ability to double bookkeep. It would be something like "that word has a lot of baggage, [X] have similar experiences but are not associated with that community".

The core of us being tolerable among therians was -always- the minimisation of our experiences. It has -always- been sanism. What happens to those who cannot double bookkeep? They are labled P-shifter, demonised and expelled. Even if we can double bookkeep we might still be expelled. I have had it happen to me, and it would not surprise me if many other zoanthropes have had similar experiences.

I personally do not wish to reclaim the term P-shifter for myself. For how I have been treated by others I do not feel attachment or desire towards the term and it still gives me a bit of discomfort in the way some other reclaimed slurs do. However, I can understand why some people would want to reclaim the term. For some it might be reclaiming a slur, for others being allowed to exist in both communities at once or allowing others like them to be acceptable in the community, for others it might be that making P-shifter acceptable means that they can express their experiences wholley without the demand for double bookkeeping. If you want to accept the full range of therian experiences, you cannot exclude a group of people simply because they cannot double-bookkeep or cannot realiy check themselves.

There is a particular irony over this whole discussion, in that people supporting the inclusion and destigmatisation of the term P-shifter and by and large CLCZs, Endels, and holotheres - groups either directly claiming their identity is associated with delusion or who others often associate with it. Many of the people opposing it almost always include how P-shifters harm delusional people and claim it an effort to protect others. Delusional people are not incapable to protect ourselves, we are not incapable to reason or make decisions for ourselves, and we are not incapable of seeing how others around us or what they think of us, nor are we incapable to see the harm others do to us under the promise of help, protection, and good intentions. So often in these discussions mad people are spoken over, silenced, or dismissed by "sane" people. The level of sanism that pervades every aspect of therianthropy is honestly extremely disheartening, and ironic for a group of "wierd animal people" that plenty of outside society thinks are lunatics.

In the past couple years there have been points when CLCZs were becoming more acceptable and more tolerable, there were even points a couple years ago I did feel finally I could call myself therian and that I could be genuinely part of the community. Even when I started posting on tumblr again there was really very little available and that was only around a year ago. Since then I have met and interacted with more zoanthropes than I had in the 8 years before. I have also been able to get to know some zoanthropes like Sonar/Dune and Ike particularly well. The feeling of not being alone is wonderful. But with our increased visibility and acceptance came ironically with more harassment and more negative posts about us. So many of the various discourses on therian tumblr wind up surrounding us in some way. I am pretty insulated from things in my bubble of mostly other zoanthropes, so I only really see something if a mutual reblogs it, and still it is so regular I read comments how we are dangerous or should not be included for various reasons. If you go to that therian confessions blog you will see so many comments about those like me. All these discourses do is again remind me of how much we are not wanted and not accepted by the broader community. Several months ago I took off my theta-delta necklace for the last time, and it has been hanging on my shelf since. I had gotten two, one for myself and one for my companion. They still wear theirs all the time but for me I simply do not feel represented by the symbol or welcome by it (even if I did replace the cord that was irritating my neck). My companion tries to reassure me that I do belong, and I am welcome in therian spaces and that my experiences with transformation -are- therian experiences or even more than normal therians. Others will try to reassure me that I am therian because I fall under their definition (and some even demanding I do), it is however to me not reassuring. Definitions and labels are much more about community than strict definition as there are plenty of labels people could claim me under. Still I have attachment to the therian community, and I want to see it grow to be what its ideals claim it is. It is honestly a lot of why I write these long emotional pieces, that others like me might not feel so alone, and that hopefully I can convince others and help the therian community to become what it promises it is. Although I feel continuously rejected by the therian community and as an outsider and interloper I do really hope someday we can -be- therians and not treated differently to others.

There is not an exodus, as none of this is new - nothing in how we are treated is new - and zoanthropes getting fed up and leaving communities is not new - the only thing that is new is for once we are visible enough you can actually see it. ~Kala

[the-crystal-femmes]

The therian community, and by extension the alterhuman community, has a horrible habit of jumping to absolutely atrocious reaches because someone has an opinion that they don't agree with.

We've seen this a lot lately with especially chosen therians. It's absolutely atrocious that I just had to watch a mutual get called a radqueer and a TERF because that mutual supports the idea of choosing to be a therian. How in the everloving fuck does that even equate?

This is absolutely like queer discourse to us. I don't mean to sound insensitive saying that as a queer person, but I feel, as others stated, we wouldn't be having this conversation if this was geared towards transgenderism instead of therianthropy and alterhumanity.

Call me blind but I genuinely don't see how one person can reach so far as to think "choosing to be a therian" is equated to "is a fucking radqueer". That is not how that fucking works, at ALL.

Choosing to be a therian shouldn't have to require someone to use a different label, it shouldn't require someone to try to validate why the hell they're choosing. It's frankly a silly debate and accusing someone of problematic things over supporting that is not okay whatsoever especially when you have absolutely NO evidence.

[cardamom-seeds]

I think a lot of the TikTok therians need to learn what being otherhearted/animalhearted is. Like I genuinely believe it would solve some of the "I'm a therians" while also saying "therians don't ACTUALLY think they're animals" stuff

Because the connection and identification WITH an animal and acting as them to be closer to them, (Examples :using gear and quadrobics) and that they don't actually think/believe they're animals is called being other hearted and other similar terms. (If I'm wrong please correct me, I am going off of my current understanding of the term and want to be as informed as possible)

Therians believe they are animals/nonhuman on some level, physical or not they believe they are not human in one way or another

Other hearted identify with animals/nonhuman beings on some level, who can experience phantom limbs and behaviors but believes this to be because of their connection to an animal/non human being, but ultimately do not believe they ARE nonhuman (again, please correct me if I'm wrong)

Cause I'm so tired of seeing what looks like an interesting therian video or something and the top comment/pinned comment/creator says something along the lines of what was stated above (the "therians don't believe we're animals" thing) and I just have to cringe at the fundamental misunderstanding of the word and identity

Can therians believe they are stuck/live in a human body? Yes! A lot do, and a lot don't. But the constant is that despite whatever we believe we are on the outside, we are animals/nonhuman, despite the outside skin suit or whatever. Saying that therians don't believe were animals/nonhuman is just missing the whole point

Idk rant over ig

[flinnir]

so we get this kind of alterhuman thing i think should call it world dysphoria?? universe dysphoria? like. we feel this way for a while. it's this extreme sense of dread and discomfort and non-belonging and frankly it triggers species dysphoria because i am just a dragon thing, i am not made for this :(

i actually don't want to see people diminishing other people's trauma and struggles just because they have a certain identity. i don't feel made for this kind of world. i don't thrive in settings where i am expected to debate someone else's feelings for... literally no reason? i actually don't resonate with discourse and yet ambihumanbrain feels obligated to engage with it.

i don't care about what you do or how you feel as long as you are not causing harm or unnecessary discomfort to other's privacy/autonomy/etc.

we should be picking parasites off our flightmates, shitting in bushes, eating berries, and swimming and having fun in the ocean. not going around hearing them say all women are stupid, all men are evil, and using enbyphobic and intersexist slurs.

why is this so much to wish for🌞

dysphoria [dɪsˈfɔːrɪə]

noun

a state of unease or generalized dissatisfaction with life. The opposite of euphoria.

^ because some people think dysphoria is a trans exclusive term.. lol

- i am transgender

[icannotgetoverbirds]

just to nip this in the bud

unfriendly fucking reminder that the rules of gender and sexuality are made up and arbitrary and literally do not matter. transmasc lesbians, bi lesbians, etc all belong in the queer community. if a label seems contradictory to you, congratulations! it's none of your goddamned business.

and as a side note referencing That One Person: if you are brave enough to be a fucking giraffe even though you're human-shaped, then who on god's green earth is within their rights to stop you? as long as you're not hurting anyone, congratulations! It's Not Any Of Their Gotdam Business!!!!!

[lordofryoshimacoast]

Okay chat, can we not tell people who are obviously mentally ill to kill themselves even if they are harassing several members of the community??? Block them and move on.

If they kill themselves because you pushed them to do it, that's their blood on your hands. You don't get to claim the high ground for that.

I get it, it's annoying, but it's easier to block them then start a pointless argument that won't change anyone's mind.

[purple-space-aliens]

reminder that someone else’s experiences is honestly no one else’s business, and no one is entitled to knowing the details or having the perfect explanation

if your biggest concern about your community is that others are not experiencing it “correctly”, you need to take a step back and think about why you feel that you need to police others identities, experiences, and lives before you are ignorant, rude, or outright hateful

i am open to conversation about this but i would prefer to keep it on this post only

-lars (headmate in our system)

[bugpalace]

Discoursey rant incoming, check tags for CWs. Also adding onto this that I'm genuinely very tired right now and I don't have enough of a filter to know if I'm accidentally saying something harmful, if I am PLEASE tell me in a peaceful way, I might just become defensive with aggressive responses

Uhm. Opinion but I think partially human therians shouldn't be talking for the whole therian community, which includes transspecies and nonhuman individuals like myself. Or zooanthropes, or holotheres. (OF COURSE don't let nonhumans and transspecies talk over partially human therians either, but the way therians are portrayed on social media currently, this certainly doesn't happen as much as the former)

I'm mainly going to be focusing on the transspecies part here because making trans analogies is a really easy way to explain why this can be annoying or upsetting for some people.

First! Something I see very often is therians CONSTANTLY specifying 'but we don't physically believe we're animals'

first thing! Zooanthropes, physical nonhumans, holotheres, etc. literally do, and that's valid! Some (but not all) might identify as physically nonhuman for mental illness reasons, and not letting mentally ill people into our spaces IS ableism. Simple as that. It is not any more or less ableist to exclude mentally disabled people from spaces as physically disabled people, but for some reason that's a lot more common. It might be different if they're doing something harmful, but that applies to everyone! And even if it's not for mental illness reasons - does anyone have a reason to exclude them???

Also. Even if a therian is NOT physically nonhuman, constantly specifying it has always felt weird to me. It feels like a trans man, physically transitioned or not, constantly saying to everyone they meet 'but I don't believe I'm physically a man!' Wouldn't that just give him dysphoria? And wouldn't it make other trans people feel weird too?

'but we don't identify as animals / but we still believe we're human!'

Uhm! That's the whole point of being a therian!

Also, imagine a trans woman saying 'but I don't actually identify as a woman / but i still believe i'm a man' Weird, right? Nearly feels like she's invalidating herself! (THERE ARE TRANS WOMEN WHO STILL IDENTIFY AS MEN!! I SUPPORT BIGENDER PEOPLE BUT YOU GET THE POINT)

Also it's really weird that I've seen many therians say 'I identify as an animal, but not in a trans way', and/or mocking therians that DO identify as an animal in a trans way. Like what. It's totally fine if you don't want to use the transspecies term but having to say it like that really feels like you're excluding transspecies people.

Look. I don't care if you're not transspecies, or physically nonhuman. Just please stop saying things like that, it does exclude us. And it does break apart our community. You can say 'but I...' and then explain your experience, but again don't do it in a way that devalues people like me. Human therians are not the whole community. /not aimed

So uhhh if you say these sorts of things without educating yourself kindly shut your maw