#yes aroace people can be in a relationship

[a-most-beloved-fool]

for the wip title game, 1 and 2? 👀

but also aroace spock from the tags?? I know you haven't written much about it but i will eat every crumb 🥺

title ask game!

No One Can Read Spock: Newly-minted Captain Kirk has heard rumors about his soon-to-be first officer Commander Spock, and none of them kind. He braces himself to meet someone cold and uncaring - cruel, even - but when he beams aboard the Enterprise, what he finds... isn't that. Instead, he finds someone who is kind, compassionate, funny, and genuinely likeable - and he figures that if no one else is going to befriend this Vulcan, he damn sure will!

(Originally, this was conceived as something fairly lighthearted and silly, but... it's kinda turned into Kirk vs xenophobia, ft. Spock Making Friends.)

Everyone Can Read Spock: This one features a lot of POV Outsider, a very-obviously-in-love Spock, and a Captain Kirk who... doesn't seem to notice. Somehow.

At one point, I wrote an abridged version of a scene towards the end of this because i was going to make it a tumblr post and then i decided that there was a very real chance it would get a lot of notes and i would feel guilty taking forever to write it if that happened, but, because i do think it's a banger scene (even very abridged), I'll stick it below the cut.

Aroace Spock: This one was born because I came across a few too many pieces of media that featured asexual people """Becoming Normal""" and shippy things which acted as though it were The Worst Thing Imaginable to be aromantic (OR to be in any sort of relationship with someone who was aromantic) and i got mad. Very little of it is written so far, but essentially, the plot will be thus:

Spock accidentally walks in on Kirk and Bones discussing Kirk's feelings for Spock, and then immediately flees. Kirk panics, because ohfuckwhatifiruinedourfriendship.jpeg. Spock avoids Kirk for three days or so before finally appearing in his quarters to talk. Spock feels wildly guilty about not reciprocating Kirk's feelings (because Kirk is the most important person in his life, and shouldn't that translate to love? why isn't he in love with him??). Kirk assures him that it's perfectly fine that Spock isn't in love with him - their friendship is more than enough for him. The conversation ends, and their friendship is unchanged, and both are a bit relieved and a bit disappointed. Later, Spock learns about queerplatonic relationships and is like "hey wait a minute, this could be perfect!" He brings the idea to Kirk, who is like "are you SURE you want this, and you aren't just suggesting it because you think I want it?" Spock assures him that no, he wants it, too. Cue relationship negotiation while they try to balance their various wants and needs.

Eventually, after a great deal of watching Spock Blatantly Pining, McCoy says something offhand to Jim about how Spock is in love with him. And Jim just blinks at him, confused.

"Spock isn't in love with me," he says, as though it's simple fact.

Bones raises an eyebrow, incredulous. "Jim, there's no way you haven't seen it. The damn fool loves you. He's as near to head over heels as I've ever seen!"

Stubbornly, Jim shakes his head. "I'm telling you, Bones. He doesn't love me."

"He does!"

"No," Jim insists. "I'd know if he loved me!"

McCoy crosses his arms, scoffing. "Well, I'd have thought so, too, considering how obvious he is about it, but clearly not!" McCoy knows, though, that he won't convince Kirk of the truth by simply arguing well. So, instead, he asks, "Why do you think you'd know, exactly?"

"Because Spock's a touch telepath," Kirk declares, as though that solves the matter.

"Jim," Bones says, kindly, "touch telepathy only works one way. You can't feel a Vulcan's emotions by touching them - only they can feel yours."

Kirk doesn't look very impressed by that argument. "Yes, I know that, Bones," he says. He looks almost insulted that McCoy would feel the need to explain that to him.

"Well then why the hell do you think his touch telepathy would make a difference?!" McCoy snaps.

"Because Spock would tell me, if he loved me!"

McCoy can't quite follow the argument that Jim obviously thinks he's making. "What?" he asks, clearly baffled.

Frustrated, Kirk explains step-by-step, as though describing something basic to a particularly stubborn two-year-old. "Spock's a touch telepath. I touch Spock all the time. I always have. He picks up emotions from me frequently. Therefore, there's no way Spock hasn't realized that I'm in love with him. If he loved me back, he'd tell me. He already knows where I stand on the matter."

Kirk punctuates this declaration with a self-satisfied little nod, even as his composure cracks just enough to expose the old ache of unrequited love - one which had been remarkably well-hidden until now. But, his self-pity session is rudely interrupted by McCoy bursting from his seat, expression apoplectic. A blood vessel looks near to bursting in his forehead.

"WHAT?!"

And then McCoy chucks Jim bodily at Spock and the two fools finally figure things out.

McCoy is then gifted a very nice shore leave. He's put up with enough. He's earned it.

(and actually, because why not, here's a chunk of that scene in my real writing style (though bear in mind that it'll probably go through another three rounds of editing before it's Actually Done):

McCoy blinked at him, mouth agape. “You can’t have not noticed,” he blurted, incredulous. “Jim, the man is smitten. He’s as near to head over heels as I’ve ever seen!”  

Kirk just shook his head, a wry sort of smile sitting on his lips. “Yes, yes. That’s a very funny joke, Bones. Now, I’ve got work to do, you know,” he said, and made to pick up his padd once again.  

Without thinking, McCoy reached across the deck and slammed the padd back to the table. “Damnit, Jim!” he snapped, feeling angry all of a sudden, “I’m being serious! Spock’s got feelings for you. Real, honest-to-goodness, romantic feelings!”  

Kirk stilled, and looked at him more closely, expression shifting to something kind, and, oddly, almost sad. “You are serious, aren’t you?” he mused, voice gentle. “Well, I can see how you might come to that conclusion. But – you’re wrong, I’m afraid. He doesn’t love me. Not like that, anyways.” 

And Kirk, in spite of all the evidence he had been given over the years, clearly believed it. When Spock had been being obvious, having clearly made attempts to instigate a relationship in both the Terran and Vulcan fashions before settling into his current state of “plainly in love, but not acting on it.” Had Jim simply – not seen? Not noticed? Did he pay no attention to the man he claimed was a friend? 

“Of all the oblivious–” 

“Bones,” Kirk said, raising his voice just enough to cut him off. McCoy obliged, but glared at Kirk, mutinous. “I’m telling you: he doesn’t love me.”)

[agentoffangirling]

I think there would be world peace if people could stop shipping aroace characters

[triangular-static]

look i understand if people just don't like the idea of billford, i think we have a different internal concept of what shipping means (they're not good for each other at all but i need to dissect their dynamic like a bug. you understand. it's fun) but it's fine to avoid things you don't like, good for you genuinely

however people saying they like. don't see it. like. i'm not saying there's no platonic way to read it, i'm aroace spec myself i'm all for reading things in different ways. but i do think saying they weren't partners in any queer sense at all is trying too hard to go against what the narrative is trying to say, or missing it. somehow

anyway media literacy time if a character makes a joke like this

and the previous context of that joke within the show is that it's about an ex wife. what connection do you think the text is trying to get you to make.

and that's just from a writing point of view. not even noting that from an in universe perspective ford likely knows the joke from the same source as stan. and is therefore. placing himself in that role of the joke are you seeing where i'm coming from

(not to mention bill's side of this text which is. extremely manipulative but also does not read very platonic. again, it can technically be read as platonic! bill literally can manipulate ford's feelings. but the specific wording used is very much meant to look like possessive ex partner wording whether the character means it that way or not. it's coding. look again i'm not saying it was good for them i'm just saying there was something there.)

and then there's also the divorce/break up/rock bottom input on the website. like. how else is that supposed to be read. and the corresponding page in the book itself.

the language being used here. like yes he's saying it in a joking way but then there's the other side that isn't joking which is him crying at the bar. it's the both sides (the very coded language on top of the very genuine emotions and dynamic beneath)

i know most of us are on the same page with this i've just seen a couple people saying they don't see it when this is some of the most clear cut coding i've ever seen. and these are just the things that explicitly reference a relationship off the top of my head i'm not even including the general vibes of Everything

tl;dr it's barely even subtext anymore it's all but straight up text. what's not clicking have we forgotten what coding is (lighthearted i just enjoy the phrase what's not clicking. what's not clicking)

[lilyrosegold]

To those who counter any general discomfort people have with aro and/or ace characters being shipped romantically or sexually with “but aro and aces can still date/have sex/be in relationships”- that’s is true but, do you actually care about the complexities and nuance of navigating romance and/or sex as someone who falls on the aroace spectrum or are you just looking for an easy way to not get hate for blatantly ignoring a character’s identity in favor of your shipping?

[stiffyck]

two types of people who say viktor and jayce can be viewed as platonic and theres a big difference between them:

the first one being aroace people like me who want others to realize that people can have deep and meaningful relationships without them being romantic. romance isnt the end goal for everyone and while you can obviously see jayvik as romantic, telling people that "theres no platonic explanation for this" and calling us homophobic for simply wanting a deep connection between two people to NOT be romantic is shitty and aphobic

and the second type being people who say "why can't men just be friends" only when it comes to mlm ships and nothing else.

one of these is actually homophobic and the other is just aspec people wanting some recognition and some respect in fandom spaces. please learn the difference. thanks.

[zaebeecee]

Aroace individual: [writes a fanfic with a ship that includes a canonically aroace character, using their own experience to explore different avenues of how aroace relationships function]

Some allosexual, bursting through the wall and knocking over the potted plants: Oh so you’re aphobic? You’re ignoring that this character is ace by having them *** nasty style? You’re making them *** with their *** *** and *** in a *** for *** *** to ***?? Bending over with *** in their *** until *** *** *** and *** *** *** ***?!?

Aroace individual: they’re queerplatonic here actually

Some allosexual, now tracking potted plant soil all over the living room: BUT IT SAYS SHIP RIGHT THERE, HOW COULD IT POSSIBLY BE A SHIP IF THEY AREN’T CONSTANTLY BANGING

Aroace individual: why are you in my house

[number1villainstan]

"do you ship them as friends or do you ship them romantically" i ship them as It's Fucking Complicated

[paging-possum]

Like I don’t want to sound like a Little Hater™️ ESPECIALLY about something that is definitely useful and beneficial to people especially other queer people. But if I pick up a book and they have a scene where two characters basically start dictionary definitioning identity labels at each other in casual conversation I am returning the book immediately. My biggest pet peeve that is not actually a problem it just gets on my nerves

[caramel-cream50]

Controversial opinion but I find it weird as fuck that the character that seems to be shipped the most in the hazbin Hotel fandom is aroace..

[unagrancantidaddepanes]

"allo people ship aroace characters in QPRs as an excuse for aroace erasure by still shipping them with other characters" is the most mind numbing take ive ever heard in my life. I cant believe I have to say that respecting aroace identities isnt aphobic 💀

[infizero]

i think interpreting dynamics that dont have any canon basis to be familial as familial is totally fine but a) you cannot act like this is canon fact and, in tandem with that, b) you cannot attack people for interpreting it differently. believe me i am all for killing people who sexualize ACTUAL familial/familial-coded dynamics with knives but you have got to understand that just bcuz these two characters are friends does not mean they are siblings and it does not mean you get to get mad at others when they inevitably ship them

[judas-not-that-one]

“this is the least stressful weekend i’ve had in two years. and it’s not hard to find what’s different. the absence of family. the addition of him”

“the addition of him” she says

god i love her. and i really really look forward to seeing what else happens with this

[vamptwinklover]

as someone on the aroace spectrum i dont give a damn if you write smut about aroace characters

[stillgeekingout]

#it's very strange #because i often feel like the culmination of those characters arcs #like if the point is they're ace great but like... #the option of lesbianism just *never* occurs #which--and again not to discredit any ace people or ace readings of her work--is such a common lesbian experience! #like myself and a bunch of other lesbians i know had that journey #of going 'hmm i don't like men... guess I'm asexual! (do not ask me about women i will combust)' #like lady bird... whatever #little women... alright i suppose if you wanted to make a comentary on how lma was forced to add the heterosexual romance at the end #and not suggest anything about a real person and also not deviate from the source material #but barbie was insane #the coding was next level #like c'mon birkenstocks??? #and i argue that barbies acceptance of genitalia could be read as an acceptance of sexuality or the very least exploring it #so why isn't she a dyke??? (other than mattel probably giving a hard no on that)

I don’t know, the thing that really bothers me about Greta Gerwig’s films is that there is just this gaping hole where gay women should be. Like, when you’re making these movies about the trap of heterosexual marriage, breaking free of that, and the only concrete answer is to be a single woman over and over and over again, it feels like an intentional absence. You can watch the movie with a queer lens, but it is egregious that you may only consider homosexuality in her movies in this way. It ought to be in them. There is no reason for it not to be there. Women don’t fuck women in Greta Gerwig’s feminist liberations. Often, they don’t have sex at all.

[ohnoitstbskyen]

asking sincerely. do you see a romance between jayce and viktor? do you think they ended up being something romantic at the end?

With apologies I am going to only half talk about the thing you are asking me, since I have something else on my mind and you happened to hit the button that makes me vomit it into words.

Coming at this from an aromantic perspective, I obviously don't experience the state of absurd obsessive delusion that you bizarre romantic freaks fetishize so feverishly*, but I am often annoyed by the idea that friendship and romance are either opposites or mutually exclusive. From my perspective, the boundary between the two is at best thin, and more realistically not actually a boundary at all except by cultural construction.

*i am taking an excessively hostile, crass tone for my own amusement i do not mean this seriously please be normal at me, weird allo freaks

I won't get into my full feelings about the end of Arcane, but it seems perfectly plain to me that the script, the imagery and the animation presents Jayce and Viktor as two halves of a whole, not opposing forces but alike to yin and yang: opposites which each contain the other. And at the climax of the show, the greatest peril to life and peace in the narrative is resolved by these two men literally joining their bodies and souls together, and going into eternity holding one another for comfort and strength. They are quite literally soulmates, quite literally the most important people in one another's lives.

I don't think that that kind of intimate emotional connection between men must necessarily be either romantic or sexual - I am aromantic, and plenty of ace people exist, and there is nothing in our natures excluding us from intense connections of love with other people of any gender.

I also think it is willfully ignorant (and genuinely homophobic) to act as though these deep connections are mutually exclusive with sex and romance. As though if Viktor and Jayce fucked nasty and made out sloppy style, suddenly their intimacy is less pure or valid, or tainted somehow.

"If these two men who are emotionally close to one another also fuck or get romantically involved, then friendship is dead, murdered on the floor by a dick-shaped knife; vile sexuality corrupts and debases the true, pure and virtuous love of ✨friendship✨" <- This shit is homophobic at a baseline, queerphobic in general, and frankly as an aromantic man I find it pretty fucking insulting as well.

What, are my friendships with other men just inherently more pure and divine, more meaningful and true than a gay man's can ever be, because I will never suffer the vile temptation of adding romance to my affection? Is that how I should think of myself? And is an aroace man more pure than me still, the only source of TRUE male friendship that a man can ever experience, free from the pustulant corruption of sexuality and romantic desire?

You get this pathetic defensiveness (especially from men, but other genders aren't immune) wherein sex and sexuality and romance between men is perceived as a threat to men's right and ability to experience deep connection to each other. But the emotional castration of men comes not from people imagining sex and romance as a component of our relationships - it comes from people who insist that our emotional lives must be ruled by strict binaries. Sex and romance, OR ELSE friendship. Deep romantic connection OR ELSE deep platonic connection. Pick one and do not dare to imagine both, nor act as though the boundary between them is something that we built by cultural fiat, and which can be dismantled just the same.

And yes, yes, yes, I know there are cultural forces literally illuminati-style conspiring to systemically erase the entire existence of explicitly romantic, sexual male love from media, and I know that homophobic puritanism is on the rise and there are material concerns and a real necessity for explicit representation in fiction, yes I know. Everything is more complicated than a tumblr post can cover, I am not trying to Solve Rainbow Capitalism™ over here, I am trying to express frustration as an aromantic man that this stupid fucking binary keeps getting culturally reinforced by both my enemies and my well-meaning allies, when I think the binary is what's fucking killing us in the first place.

So anyway. My position is that Viktor and Jayce can be entirely aromantic no-homo friends, and they can fuck nasty in the throes of mutual need and obsession, and I refuse to entertain the idea that there is an irresolvable contradiction between those things. Each of those can contain the other, or become the other given time and circumstance.

What the imagery, storytelling and script of Arcane makes clear is that Viktor and Jayce love each other more than life itself. To say that that love must be shoved into the box of either "platonic" or "romantic" is to miss out on almost everything that is beautiful about love. It can be both and neither! It can be a secret third, ninth or fifteenth thing that they haven't invented a tag for on Ao3 yet.

They are giving each other whatever the spiritual mind-ghost equivalent of sloppy backshots are on the ethereal plain forever, they are the most romantic lovers in the cosmos, and they are also the most chaste and platonic life-partner friends you have ever seen, effortlessly intimate and unashamedly tender. They are men who love one another, in every way that love matters.

You can pick whichever interpretation brings you joy, and resonates with what your heart needs, the text of the show is eminently and explicity open to it, and anyone who says otherwise either failed to pay attention, or refused to pay attention on purpose.

[theonlymadmanonmars]

Hi hello hi. As an AroAce individual in a QPR who has no desire for a romantic or sexual relationship, I think shipping Alastor in QPRs is so so fun and people should do it more. I also think it works for a good amount if not all of the ships I've seen him in.

Alastor and Rosie: Hell yeah. They're already great friends and every interaction we've seen between them has been pure and adorable. Rosie Gently guiding Alastor through his identity because he isn't exactly up with the slang. Them going out for tea and human flesh Sunday afternoons. Them giving each other forehead kisses and holding hands platonically.

Alastor and Angle dust: Mhmm. Angle not really wanting Sex or romance after all he's been through. Angle respecting Alastor's identity and not pushing for anything more than friendship. Alastor not really liking Angle at first because of their differences, But tolerating him regardles. Alastor explaining to Angle that Romantic relationships don't have to involve Sex (I'm an Asexual Angle truther.) Angle offering Alastor a hug that Alastor reluctantly accepts. Them cuddling at night with a pinky Promise of nothing more.

Alastor and Vox: Go ahead. A fic about Alastor trying to Navigate exactly how he feels about Vox, Because when he died the term AroAce didn't exist, so he thinks it's romantic attraction, Maybe they kiss and Alastor is like "Ha! No!" Maybe that's why they had their falling out? Who knows.

Alastor and Lucifer: So So SO much Yes. (This is my personal favorite) The two of them hating each other, but putting up for each other for Charlie's sake. Slowly growing to actually tolerate and maybe even like being around the other. Exchanging snarky remarks in a more playful way. Alastor finding Lucifer sitting in a pile of ducks and despair and offering his hand to help him up and take him to the hotel. Never letting go of his hand. Fuck Enemies to Friends to Lovers I want an Enemies to Friends to Qpr arc goddamnit.

I do think it's okay to ship Alastor even outside of QPR's, BUT. If you do, don't just ignore Alastor's identity. AroAce people get far less representation than the rest of the LGBTQ+ community. I can think of one other canon Character off the top of my head. So it's not okay to erase the little rep we do get. In the end I think it's important to listen to what AroAce people have to say on the matter, it is our representation after all.