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amaryllisblackthorn · 4 years ago

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a lot of people have this idea that Annabeth's been like, a Luke apologist and in denial since the very beginning but it's not really true?. Annabeth was angry at Luke for his betrayal in the end of Lightning Thief and during Sea of Monsters. It's only until the end of The Titan's Curse that she starts the 'Luke really isn't that bad' kind of thing.

the end of Lightning Thief:

"I can't believe that Luke..." Annabeth's voice faltered. Her expression turned angry and sad. "Yes. Yes, I can believe it. May the gods curse him...He was never the same after his quest."

"When I get back next summer," she said, "we'll hunt down Luke. We'll ask for a quest, but if we don't get approval, we'll sneak off and do it anyway. Agreed?"

She was really angry at him during Sea of Monsters. Her vision from the Sirens does indicate that deep down she may believe she's able to save him, or at least wants to, but it doesn't diminish the hurt and anger she does feel.

"How could you?" Annabeth sounded so angry I thought she'd explode. "Thalia saved your life! Our lives! How could you dishonor her--"

"Liar!"

"I understand you want to destroy the camp!" she yelled. "You're a monster!"

"Because you have none of your own [intelligence]!"

"That's disgusting!" Annabeth said.

"You're insane," Annabeth said.

"Go to Tartarus," she said.

All those above are on the Princess Andromeda with Luke. Then later, to Percy:

She shook her head. "We made a dozen safe houses like this. I doubt Luke even remembers where they are. Or cares."

Even in the beginning-ish of Titan's Curse, she doesn't trust him. When he's struggling under the sky and asking for her help, she's hesitant. It's only when the sky begins to fall that she goes to help hold it.

Annabeth had tears in her eyes. She reached down like she wanted to touch Luke's face, but at the last second she hesitated. "What happened?" she asked.

"Why should I trust you?" Annabeth asked. Her voice was filled with hurt.

Then the darkness above Luke began to crumble, like a cavern roof in an earthquake. Huge chunks of black rock began falling. Annabeth rushed in just as a crack appeared, and the whole ceiling dropped. She held it somehow--tons of rock. She kept it from collapsing on her and Luke with her own strength.

However!! There's a shift in her feelings by the time Percy and Thalia rescue her and I personally think it's because she's aware that Luke 'saved' her life for the time being after Atlas ordered him to kill her after Artemis took the sky -- even though he was super complicit in her being in that situation in the first place. Compare:

Luke hesitated. "She--she may yet be useful, sir. Further bait."

and

"We'll bring Luke back," Annabeth pleaded. "To Olympus. He...he'll be useful."

I don't think it's a conscious parallel on Annabeth's part per se, but Rick Riordan using the parallel to indicate the connection. I think that's when Annabeth discovers that Luke does still care deep down, and that deep down the person that she knows is there. which is fair, because before this point he hadn’t given her any indication seeing as he literally directed Oreius to eat her. that’s a whole ‘nother write-up, though, i think. i digress.

Once she knows this, she starts to view him as someone being manipulated and taken advantage of by Kronos, someone who was able to manipulate Ares, a god, in the first book, -- she's not wrong! He is being manipulated. That doesn't absolve him from his horrible behavior especially towards her, but she understands that Luke is a troubled, traumatized young man being taken advantage of by the evil King Titan, and she's also aware that literally no one else cares enough to try to save him.

like, the language Annabeth uses to describe Luke in the end of Titan’s Curse is the same that Percy uses to describe the demigods on the Titans’ side in Last Olympian.

"You don't believe me about Luke," Annabeth said, "but we'll see him again. He's in trouble, Percy. He's under Kronos's spell."

I tried to wound his men, not kill. That slowed me down, but these weren’t monsters. They were demigods who’d fallen under Kronos’s spell. I couldn’t see faces under their battle helmets, but some of them had probably been my friends.

there’s another callback with the language Percy uses to describe the opposing demigods in Last Olympian. this time, to what Percy says to Luke at the end of Lightning Thief.

“He’s brainwashing you, Luke.”

“You’re being used, Luke. You and Ares both. Don’t listen to Kronos.”

This kid was getting brainwashed—trained to hate the gods and lash out because he’d been born half Olympian. Kronos was using him, and yet the kid thought I was his enemy.

Poseidon put his hand on my shoulder. “Percy, there were only a few demigod warriors aboard that ship, and they all chose to battle for Kronos. Perhaps some heeded your warning and escaped. If they did not . . . they chose their path.”

“They were brainwashed!” I said. “Now they’re dead and Kronos is still alive. That’s supposed to make me feel better?

Percy has sympathy for the demigods manipulated by Kronos to be on the Titan’s sides; he sees them as victims. the reason he doesn’t for Luke, I feel, is because Luke’s betrayal made it personal. I think this is where Percy’s fatal flaw comes into play, honestly, with the personal loyalty. both in regards to the personal betrayal to Percy, as well as Percy’s loyalty to Annabeth (and thus Luke’s betrayal of Annabeth, too). and i feel this also applies, to a lesser extent, to Ethan. but that’s a whole ‘nother write-up, too (one day!)

there is, admittedly, the factor of Luke’s age in comparison to Percy, Annabeth, and most of the other campers. there’s definitely a power imbalance -- especially with Annabeth, which isn’t okay, obviously. so even though he’s a victim and young himself, that power imbalance in regards to his actions, manipulations, etc is messed up and not okay.

even so, Luke is still pretty young himself -- not as young as the others, but still young. like, i got into this series when i was younger than Percy and Annabeth were, so Luke, like most early 20 year olds, seemed very old to me in that regard; it’s only as i got older and closer to his are that i started to really realize that heck he was really young. so while Luke is definitely an adult in regards to the relationship he has with Percy, Annabeth, and other younger demigods -- which he should have been mindful of and makes his manipulation etc very messed up and not okay -- he’s also young himself which is something to keep in mind. like, Luke is only around 19-22? in the series. That puts him at a power imbalance in regards to Annabeth and Percy, in which he's very much an adult in the relationship, but outside of that he's still pretty young! he’s a college kid, which when you’re younger seems pretty old but then you are one and realize differently -- his brain hasn't even fully developed yet. but i’m like, seriously digressing.

my intended point was that i disagree with the interpretation that Annabeth was blinded by emotions and a toxic relationship which led her to make excuses for Luke and unable to see him for what he really was etc,-- because Annabeth was angry at him after his betrayal and had even thought he was different, that he didn’t care anymore. The ‘Luke apologist’ behavior only starts at the end of Titan’s Curse, the third book in the five book series. I just feel like her ... feelings? perspective? position? idk the right word.... is often misrepresented?

she becomes very defensive over Luke’s ‘inner goodness’ and stuff because she’s literally the only one who wants to save him and knows it. she knows what he’s done isn’t okay, but she keeps driving it home that he’s being manipulated because he is! it doesn’t excuse his actions but it doesn’t have to. by the end of titan’s curse, annabeth sees luke as someone terribly lost and no one trying, willing, or caring enough to save him. and like, she’s right when she sees luke as someone who isn’t beyond saving, who’s extremely lost and being manipulated through his trauma and anger -- it doesn’t excuse what he’s doing but that doesn’t make him someone not worthy of saving. despite what he’s done, luke is still her family and she will fight for him. she sees luke the same way percy sees the other opposing demigods in the last olympian and she’s right. she’s not making excuses for him, she doesn’t think he’s done nothing wrong, she’s just not willing to give up on him and she was right. as the child in the relationship/dynamic, it wasn’t her responsibility to be the one to save him and shouldn’t have been, but she wasn’t wrong in how she saw Luke.

like, their was definitely a power imbalance in their relationship and it’s definitely important to acknowledge that, but i feel like people tend to like, erase annabeth’s agency, for lack of a better word, and attribute her desire to save Luke as being tragically misplaced? like, Luke has totally wronged Annabeth and mistreated her terribly, but like...I find her not giving up on him mostly admirable and not pitiable, though like I said as the child in their dynamic it wasn’t her responsibility. i’m rambling though.

mostly this post was made to remind people that Annabeth was angry towards Luke, and rightfully so, until near the end of Titan’s Curse, which is where her defending Luke and insisting he could be saved really started, likely with Luke indicating he actually still cared deep down for the first time being the catalyst. especially since it seems a lot of people give like the impression they think she’s done it from the very beginning? idk ive definitely rambled a lot and lost my main point sometime ago or something. enjoy this anyway.

#annabeth chase #pjato #percy jackson and the olympians #luke castellan #ab analyzes #i'm kind of expecting this to be somewhat controversial idk #;the last olympian #;titan's curse #;the lightning thief #;i have at least two other related metas i want to write up so hopefully ill get around to that

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dutchdread · 4 years ago

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No offense bro, but why are you always so protective of Cloud? No disrespect to you or anything but I've heard quite a bit of different opinions and theories on Cloud myself and I do agree with the people who say that he takes Tifa for granted. Going through trauma in the past is not really an excuse for his behavior. He also does act like he's the only one who has suffered in his life. Do you have other reason to defend him other than the fact that you "relate" to him? Just wondering.

Sorry for the late reply, my life has basically left no room for hobbies these past months. Your question is hard to reply to because I am not sure what you mean when you say I am protective of him. I guess you mean I defend his actions? Specifically in ACC? Firstly let me state that there is a difference between being a good character and being a nice character, there is also a difference between agreeing with someones actions, or just understanding them. Personally, I never really liked Cloud, especially not when I was younger. A lot of my defense of Cloud doesn't come from me personally liking him, but from me thinking he's a good character. I also think Snape is a good character, but I don't like his actions, and I don't defend them, although I still understand them to a certain degree. I should also say that as I started to understand Clouds character more, I also started liking HIM a bit more, although I still don't like the things he did, and would very likely not be friends with him. But I do understand why he did what he did and cannot be too critical of him because of that. You've probably heard that before you judge someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That's great advice, if you want to judge someone, you should imagine what it would be like to be them, however, I've noticed that too often when people try to walk a mile in someone elses shoes, they refuse to take their own shoes off first. They don't think "what would it be like to be him", they think "what would I do in that position". But Cloud is not you, and you cannot judge him by how you would act, you've not gone through the same things he has, your thought patterns aren't the same etc. This matters because too often I see people judging Clouds actions in ACC, and establishing his motivations by saying things that boil down to "If I were in his position, I would only do those actions if I loved Aerith/didn't love Tifa/whatever". But they're not Cloud, and they're not understanding how Cloud thinks, and that it's different from how THEY think. But like you said, I do see some recognizable elements of myself in Cloud, which is why I do understand his actions, and why I feel relatively certain in defending them, because I see them coming from a good place. It's common for me to react to things in a way that others find counter-intuitive. Let me give you an example, my brother once was mad at me because I had not told him my girlfriend of several years and I had broken up while I did tell a random stranger at the pub. He said that he felt like he wasn't important to me if I told a random stranger but not him. The truth was the exact opposite, I love my brother, and could not bear to face him for some reason, as I told him: "if not caring enough was the problem, then I wouldn't have told a random stranger". I see people exhibit that same lack of understanding when discussing Clouds actions, where they feel like his actions must be the sign of him just being a bad person, or not caring. But ask yourself what is more likely, that Square-enix wants their hero to be a bad person, or that you simply are misunderstanding the character? I understand why people don't get Cloud, Cloud suffers from obvious mental health issues, and mental health issues simply are not something that the general public understands, even today. Not only that, but Cloud went through the most insane series of traumatic events anyone could ever imagine. He had an alien parasite in him, saw his entire town murdered before his eyes, then saw Zack murdered in front of his eyes, then saw Aerith murdered in front of his eyes, and just when he started living a peaceful life he is forced to watch his child succumb to sickness in front of his eyes, and then he finds he himself is dying. All this on the psyche of a man who had had a fear of failure ever since he was a child, spent most of his life essentially in war, and had a severe identity crisis as well. Do you think you can honestly judge him by going "that's not what I would have done"? Would that not be incredibly

presumptuous? Have you suffered from depression as a result of severe post-war PTSD and a lifelong feeling of inadequacy combined with a fear of failure and the belief that many of your loved ones died because you failed and were inadequate? Because that's the context in which you have to view Cloud when watching Advent Children. Saying "Going through trauma in the past is not really an excuse for his behavior" is just incredibly short-sighted, your behavior is determined by who you are, and who you are is determined by what you go through in the past. You can't expect a broken child to become a well-adjusted adult when being a well-adjusted adult is the result of having a normal childhood.

I also don't want to cause offense, but this really is a mindset you should change, because this mindset is one of the most pervasive and damaging ones in our society, it's the one that probably bothers me most when I hear it because it makes zero sense. It's like breaking a robots self-repair unit, and then being angry at it on the grounds that the self-repair unit should have fixed it. It's also very insensitive in general, it's the equivalent of saying "why are you depressed, just stop being depressed", people don't choose to be depressed, people don't choose to have a fear of failure. People don't choose their emotions, they're just there. They can be influenced by behavior over time, sure, but behavior is equally influenced by who you are and your emotions, which, as mentioned before, is determined for a large part by your past. People don't just "snap out of it". They fight and fight and fight, and sometimes they win and break out of the spiral, and sometimes they lose and it breaks them.

FFVII, and especially Advent children, is all about that struggle, and during those struggles you will have high-points, and low-points. FFVII shows all of those. It shows Cloud trying, it shows Cloud wanting, it shows Cloud failing, but it also, ultimately, shows Cloud prevailing. Judging Cloud for not breaking out of the spiral by the time of Advent children, when he was mentally only barely 18 years old, and when he started at the worst place anyone could ever imagine, is just not reasonable. It's the modern day equivalent of "let them eat cake", something that can only be said from the place of privilege of not knowing what the struggles of the people you're critiquing are actually like. So having that out of the way, lets look at Clouds actions from the perspective of Cloud. Cloud is a young boy, and he's in love with the girl next door, he wants to get her to notice him. One day said girl walks up a mountain and he follows, she falls off a bridge and ends in a coma. Cloud followed her because he's in love with her, and he gets the blame from the adults. Cloud internalizes this, and its important to imagine what this must be like for a child, to have the adults all tell him it's his fault that the person he loves ended up hurt. "your fault", "your fault". Afterwards Cloud starts thinking Tifa hates him and starts acting out. I think this is a good moment to point out btw that this child has no father figure. This is the start of his feelings of failure and inadequacy, he blames himself for not being able to protect Tifa, failure number 1, he thinks that if he were strong, he'd be able to protect her, he thinks that if he were like Sephiroth, then even Tifa would have to notice him. Now until this time Cloud is not an asshole, he's a bit of a rebellious kid yes, but notice that he's not a bad kid as much as he's a kid who wants to protect someone, has no direction, and is acting out. So Cloud thinks he's not good enough, but he leaves town confident that he'll become good enough, and even makes a promise to Tifa. All this follows logically from what we know about Cloud, and tells us a lot about how deeply seated these feelings are. Becoming Soldier wasn't a small thing, not some small passion project that he just came up with one day, it's the result of the things that happened in his childhood and he left everything behind make it so. He told the girl he loved, he promised, he boasted. And then he failed. Failure number 2. He comes back to Nibleheim and can't bear to look Tifa in the eye and admit that he couldn't do it, that he's a failure. His entire life so far has revolved around this and he wasn't good enough. So here we have Cloud, not in a great mindset, thinking he's a failure, and what happens? His entire town is murdered by the person he admired, someone he worked with. His Mother is killed, and Tifa, the girl he PROMISED to protect, gets slashed open so badly that apparently she needed to have her ribcage reinforced with metal. I think we can all agree that this by itself would be enough to potentially scar a person for life. (Cloud, not Tifa XD) So what's next for the boy who left town in order to become a hero? Well, he gets captured and experimented on for 4 years, during which his mind and sense of identity is bombarded with memories and knowledge of the lifestream in the form of mako, muddying up his thoughts. Cloud already had a weak sense of self as a result of his childhood, it's why he failed to enter Soldier and now this distaste for who he is makes him extra susceptible to Jenovas influence. The next thing Cloud sees, (he didn't consciously experience the 4 years of mind-fuckery) is his best friend getting killed trying to protect him, because Cloud wasn't strong enough. Failure #3. At this point, in Clouds mind the list of people dead because he could not protect them, because he's a failure, include his mother, his entire town, his best friend, and as far as he knows, the girl he loves. This is his life. His mind is broken, he hates himself, he doesn't want to be himself,

he has a mind-altering parasite inside of him trying to adjust his identity and Clouds just goes "I reject this reality and constitute my own". And why wouldn't he? Why wouldn't he want to live in a fantasy world where he wasn't a failure, where he made it into soldier, where he was cool and successful and not a disappointing failure? Zack tells him to be his living legacy and Cloud goes with it, then he runs into Tifa, Jenova adjusts Cloud further based on Tifas memories of them and rejoined with the girl for whom he joined Soldier Cloud is unconsciously all too willing to play the part. FFVII starts and it doesn't take long for the cracks in his fake persona to show, he meets Aerith, and becomes her bodyguard. He gets to be the hero he always wanted to be. But then, even as "Cloud strife, soldier first class", Cloud is still a failure, the plate still drops, killing thousands, he gives Sephiroth the black materia, he beats up Aerith, and ultimately, fails to save her as well. Tifa was the First Failure, and Aerith was the Final Failure. Even as a soldier, Cloud still couldn't save anyone, he loses even more faith in himself, he doesn't know who he is, he doesn't trust himself, and then when he also loses Tifas trust in who he is, he just breaks and gives over to Jenova/Sephiroth. Even Hojo calls him a failure. Cloud feels like a nobody. Now mentally weakened, under the influence of jenova cells, he gives Sephiroth the black materia AGAIN, and meteor is summoned. Another entry on the long list of moments Cloud can look back on in shame later on in life. He falls into the lifestream and again his psyche is under attack. We know what happens afterwards, Tifa finds him, cares for him, and saves him through his feelings for her. Cloud realizes who he is, realizes he's weak, and goes after Sephiroth without lying to himself. In the end he defeats Sephiroth mentally and is supposedly rid of his direct influence.

But that doesn't mean that this mentally 17 year old is now fine, we should remember these events when analyzing ACC. Cloud has been in constant fighting/war/peril ever since he left home as a child, and is now a traumatized 17 year old in a 21 year olds body. Novels and other materials give us an insight into how Cloud thinks during these times, and how he thinks about himself. We hear him say that he's going to live because that's the only way he can atone for his sins. He talks about wanting to change, and about believing he can change because he now has Tifa. He's a man (boy) who just exited war, and wants to be positive, but is still clearly blaming himself. We see that this initially goes well, we are told that Cloud experiences peace and happiness that he's never experienced before. We're also told about the things that make it go badly, when he has to deliver flowers to the ancient city for instance. While Cloud regained the sense of who he was the belief that he wasn't good enough, that he was a failure, was never solved, if anything it was put on hold until he got his memories back, and now he is forced to deal with it.

While he is no longer directly manipulated by Sephiroth he's still suffering from PTSD and, most notably, survivors guilt. He blames himself for the deaths of Zack and Aerith in particular, and starts visiting the church. Now most people might think it's natural to avoid places that make you feel bad about yourself, but that's not how a depressed person thinks, Cloud thinks he deserves to feel badly he WANTS to punish himself, he WANTS to feel bad. He's ashamed of the moments where he's carefree and laughing with Tifa. Why should he get to be happy when Aerith and Zack are dead because of him? He shouldn't be happy, he should be in pain, he should remember them, not doing so would be an insult to their memories, he must never forget how he failed them! That's how Cloud is thinking. We know of course that this is non-sense, Aerith and Zack wouldn't want this, if anything it's this mindset that is tarnishing the memories of Aerith and Zack, but that's not how a mentally unwell person thinks. Cloud wants to atone, and thinks he finds salvation in Denzel, whom he finds at Aeriths church. He thinks that by saving this life, he can, in some way, make up for all the death he caused. Tifa has a similar belief when she finds out Denzels parents died in the plate crash. And when Denzel joins the family, and Cloud has path towards redemption in his mind, things start getting better again. Because this is the cause of the problems Cloud is having in ACC. When Nojima says:

first off, there’s the premise that things won’t go well between Tifa and Cloud, and that even without Geostigma or Sephiroth this might be the same

This is the conflict he's talking about, he's not saying "Tifa and Cloud are incompatible, it has nothing to do with Sephiroth", he's saying "if Sephiroth didn't show up during Advent children, Cloud and Tifa would still be having problems because Cloud is going through survivors guilt."

But the good times don't last, Denzel has Geostigma and Cloud cannot find a cure, Denzel....is going to die. Cloud, has failed again. Not only that, but Cloud catches Geostigma....Cloud is going to die. And THIS is why Cloud leaves in Advent children. And you have to look at this as Cloud. Cloud said he was going to live to atone for his sins, but instead he's going to die. He won't atone for his sins, even worse, he's going to leave Tifa and Marlene behind. He failed again. He couldn't protect Denzel, he potentially brought an infectious disease into their house as well. Literally all Cloud can think about is that literally everything he's ever tried has ended in failure, everyone he's ever tried to protect, he's failed at. Do you understand how easy it would be for a person like this to fall into the trap of thinking "I deserve to die", "I don't want Tifa and Marlene to see me die", "Tifa and Marlene are better off without me anyway", "they'd be happier if I weren't here". Etc. Now we know this is nonsense, but come on, how many instances have you heard of depressed people genuinely believing that their loved ones would be happier and better off if they just didn't exist? However, throughout the movie, Zack, Tifa, and Aerith, all confront Cloud, and urge him to not give up. Cloud eventually does try again, and ultimately finds redemption not by being stuck in the past, but by letting the past rest and be beautiful (a lesson Cleriths unfortunately never learned). "I never blamed you you know, not once" "I want to be forgiven. By who?" "Isn't it about time you did the forgiving?" In the end, Cloud moves on, and therefore, so do Zack and Aerith. Aerith and Zack walk into the light, Cloud plants flowers on Zacks grave, and lets Zacks buster sword rest in Aeriths church, now no longer rusting, but shining. Instead of the past being a negative reminder, Cloud lets the past be beautiful. Cloud was doing Aerith and Zack a disservice by remembering them the way he did, because it was ruining his life, it wasn't a good thing, but it did come from a good place, from a good man whose ashamed of not being good enough. Yes, it harmed Tifa, people going through these things often do hurt those around them, but it's not because they're bad people, or even weak, but because people are imperfect and Cloud has gone through hell, both internally, and externally. Are his actions really that weird or deplorable? "He didn't even go save the kids!" Yes, he's hesitant about saving the kids, why shouldn't he be? Everyone Cloud tried to protect or save, ended up maimed or worse, or as Cloud puts it: "I can't even save myself". "He left Tifa alone!" Yes, he thinks he's going to waste away and die, can you blame him for not wanting to put Tifa through that and for thinking she'd be better off without him? "He drinks!" Wouldn't you?! Who wouldn't want to forget that stuff? But in the end, He's only gone for about a week, he never intended to harm Tifa, he never physically harmed Tifa or cheated on her, his entire life revolved around wanting to be better for Tifa and blaming himself when he wasn't good enough, how is it reasonable to say this man takes Tifa for granted when the fact that he thinks he has to BE BETTER in order to be worthy of being with her has been a constant throughout his entire life and story? He DOESN'T take Tifa for granted, that's why he's beating himself up, that's why he leaves, not because he thinks he's better than her, or that he'll always have her, or that she'll follow him like a dog, or something like that. But because of the opposite, because he thinks HE is not good enough, that SHE would be better of without him. Saying Cloud takes Tifa for granted, is honestly, simply, wrong. It's 180 degrees the opposite of what is happening in FFVII, the biggest constant in Clouds life, is that he doesn't take Tifa for granted, and I don't understand how anyone could argue otherwise.

#cloti #FFVII #ffvii crisis core #ffvii advent children #ffvii remake

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bluboothalassophile · 2 years ago

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SAME ANON FROM TWO SECONDS AGO but it's also endlessly interesting how the people closest to the robins react to it being taken from them (which was essentially just the titans and the og yj team, because jason didn't have anyone and damian hasn't necessarily had it taken away from him). dick's team was definitely hurt on his behalf but generally a bit more mature in their approach to jason. tim's team was angry on his behalf and i think a lot of that ties into the fact they admired nightwing in a way that the titans didn't necessarily admire bruce, so they were more concerned about how dick was dealing, while the yj team was definitely more angry at dick doing it in the first place. and also damian, bless his heart, was a menace to work with, so he didn't necessarily make it easy on them, haha, but they definitely could have been nicer. it's just something that you can think about for hours and come up with so many different points, honestly.

Hello,

So I think Tim's team was rightfully angry with what had happened between Dick and Tim and Damian, from the way friends should be angry on your behalf. And everything regarding how Tim's team handles Damian is also the same age group reactions to what had happened; not excusing their behavior by any means, but it was the reaction you would expect from that age range, and with their understanding of what was going on. Dick's team was, for the most part, adults, late teens to young adult, they didn't react poorly towards Jason, but not the warmest, I think they had a grasp that in Jason and Dick's situation, there was no real reason to be angry at Jason, for Jason is the child and not in control.

The Young Justice and Titans do have drastically different views on the adult vigilante's in the DC universe, and it's interesting, because it also affects how the teams act and react, but they're also drastically different ideologies and goals and relationships with their perspective families and the Justice League. Titans were formed because the Justice League didn't see their proteges as adults, or grown up, the Young Justice was formed so they could be taught, and it creates, interesting and different, dynamics between the groups and adults.

But in regards to Damian and Tim, which I'll talk about more in the next post, it was all handled like shit, and there were ways it could've been handled better. I think the only good thing to come out of that era was that Tim became Red Robin, which I think was a huge step in the right direction for Tim's character as a whole. Tim was growing up, he was evolving as Robin but in many ways he had out grown the role of Robin, which is okay and good for a character to do. But it also limited what to do with him, he could pick up Dick's mantle and become Nightwing, which would've been a disservice to Tim's character, he could've become Batman, which would've been horrible for his character, he could've become the CEO of WE which would've been both empowering and damaging to his character, or he could've become something new. Given that Tim isn't inclined towards becoming new, because he had resigned himself many times to the role of Batman in his future (at least in the few issues of comics I possess he seems resigned to becoming Batman despite his lack of desire to be Batman. Tim is a character who rarely does things for himself, he does what's necessary for everyone else; he became Robin because Batman needs Robin. So in many ways, his evolution into Red Robin is fantastic for his character, as it permits him to figure out himself without the pressures of an established mantle. Red Robin is the best move for Tim, and I think it's definitely the best long term move for him, because he needs to find his own identity as a vigilante, and as himself.

As to Dick, he does the best he can, with what he knows, and it's not always right, and it's not always perfect; despite him being DC's Mr. Perfect, with Superman, Dick's evolving and figuring things out. It's not perfect. And Dick is a great brother to Tim and Damian, though he has done damages to both of them with his good intentions. And I think a lot of his relationships stem from having been a shit brother to Jason, I think Jason's death impacted Dick greatly and he strives to be a better brother. But he's also B's kid and he does fuck up and do the wrong thing for the right reasons where his brothers are concerned, and he's not perfect with them, but he's trying. And I can respect that, but how he's a brother to Jason, Tim, and Damian, it does take him off the golden child status DC puts him on, and the fandoms occasionally put him on.

#bluboothalassophile #hello reader

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ask-hunterxhunter · 5 years ago

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Scenario question about the yandere adult trio: lets say the s/o and their captor did have sex(reason could be anything from them using it as a tool to escape or Stockholm syndrome) and they manage to escape. What would happen if it turns out that they're pregnant? Would they keep the child or abort it? How woukd the adult trio react to both situations if they ever found out about their pregnancy?

This is one of those delicate subjects that can get heated quite quickly, especially with the wrong kind of people (the “I’m Always Right and Won’t Consider Anything Else” group). I think whether the girl would keep the baby or go with abortion would depend on her.

All I can do is write the possible reactions of the Adult Trio to the three ways one could deal with this: Keeping the child, having the child and giving it to adoption, and aborting.

Illumi

The fact that you escaped at all is already an impressive feat considering the high security and precautions Illumi would place around you once he has kidnapped you. And regarding the sex, there is sadly also the option of you becoming pregnant due to Illumi forcing himself on you, which he might not see as a sexual violence, but rather as him showing his love to you (his thoughts can get that twisted) or thinking that since you’re married/you’re his, there is nothing wrong with this.

After he roams the mansion and its grounds in search of you, growing anxious as he can’t find you and no one else has seen you either, the realization comes: Somehow, you’ve left… His first reaction would be a momentary confusion as he honestly cannot understand this. Not only how you did it, but also why. Why do you keep rejecting him if he took you away from all your previous problems, kept you safe and would give you everything you could want? He is a Zoldyck, there is nothing he cannot give you, so your behaviour makes no sense from his analytical point of view.

He is absolutely unable to accept that you do not love him and that what he did to you is not love. And while he doesn’t comprehend those things to their extent, it also doesn’t even matter as much as him having you.

His next reaction, which comes immediately after he learns of your escape, is set out to get you back. And he won’t spare any sort of effort, sending his most trusted butlers to find you, going after you himself as well and even offering rewards for anyone who has any information about your whereabouts. This man will move Heaven and Hell in order to find you, with a determination that is frankly scary as it serves as a brief window to the level of his obsession.

His “mood” (if it can be called that) during this “mission” changes from angry and hurt to confused and sad, as he feels nothing is right if you’re not there with him (not that anyone would be able to tell) and, surprisingly, he will worry as to whether or not you’re alright. It is not enough to make him understand things from your perspective any better, though. Someone may try to point things out and explain the actual nature of his actions and it will be a waste of time since Illumi has his own twisted logic way of seeing and interpret everything. And it is not as if he doesn’t have some idea. Depending on the level of his obsession, Illumi might not be completely delusional but still believes he knows better, that you’ll love him eventually and that is it. After all, he did feel bad seeing you so unhappy at the Zoldyck estate and his reasoning remained that he could make you happy if you allowed him.

You’re his. Nothing else matters.

While he also thinks about the danger of you telling others about certain secrets of the Zoldyck family, this is actually a secondary issue (probably one of the rare times this happens) and there are times when he feels somewhat personally betrayed by your actions.

You may be careful as much as you can. You may be taking every precaution necessary. You may have changed your name and everything you can.

And then, one night you suddenly don’t feel safe… There is something amiss…

You’re in your new home (for the time being, you’re smarter than staying for long in just one place regardless of your situation), just checking to make sure everything is fine… Until you shiver. Before you can tell whether this is your imagination or not, you hear his voice…

He has found you.

And it’s likely that the people who might have helped you are dead. And Illumi may also kill others, such as your friends and loved ones even if you didn’t get in contact with them. In his mind, this is not only punishment but by making so that you have no one except him is another way to prevent you from trying to leave again.

If you’re still pregnant, Illumi would likely know about it even if you’re not showing it yet, picking up the slightest hints of your behaviour that something has happened. If enough time has passed so the baby could be from someone else, Illumi would demand to know the truth, the cold iron in his manners as he asks you enough to make you tremble.

Not that you would be insane enough to lie about this, knowing how he would react.

His first reaction is a mix of anger and confusion: What were you thinking, leaving like you did and while pregnant? What if something had happened? What if someone had tried to hurt you or “our child”? And how could you do this to him, not only abandoning him but taking his child away as well?

What makes this even more frightening is how Illumi can make all those questions while giving so little emotional signals and keeping his voice as controlled as ever. And the few hints of emotions that seep into his aura are only noticeable because of the time you’ve spent with him, making everything all the more disturbing.

His reaction will be the same if you already had the baby and decided to keep him/her. Against what you may say or do, Illumi will approach the crib (or you, if you’re holding the baby), wanting to see his child.

And in both cases (well, maybe all of them), your reaction has little to no consequence. You may reach your limit and argue about what he did, even yell at him. You may be too frightened to move. You may stand between him and the crib or hold your baby close, motherly instincts stronger than any fear (which may confuse him). It doesn’t matter in the end, at least no more than your protests have ever mattered to Illumi and he will have the same answers of always to whatever you say.

It doesn’t mean your actions will be simply ignored, of course. Illumi might decide to keep you locked in the room you share for a few months for running away (and even if he decides to not punish you physically, it doesn’t mean he won’t have other means) and he won’t like the fact that he missed some months of your pregnancy or, in the second case, the birth of his first child.

But at this precise moment, he will be more focused on how he finally found you and that he is a father. He will hug you close (in the case of pregnancy, touch your belly), whispering the same honeyed poison, of how much he loves you and that now, you’re a family with a child.

Oh, you shouldn’t cry. You shouldn’t worry. He will take care of you and “our child”.

And here you go, back to the gilded cage Illumi made for you…

In the event of you having the child and giving to adoption, the chances of Illumi never finding out are very low even if you were beyond careful and meticulous about the whole ordeal. You can hope, of course… After all, Kikyo has mentioned a few of the “methods” of the Zoldyck Clan when it comes down to raise children and looking at Illumi and his siblings, you can’t bear the idea of subjecting your baby to this life (or worse, risk him/her becoming like Illumi).

And once Illumi finds you, all you can do is pray in your heart that your child will remain free, even if you won’t…

And you better pray Illumi never finds out about the adoption as well.

Since he’ll know about the pregnancy, you may try lying that you suffered a miscarriage or that the baby was stillborn. It’s risky, but if you’re good enough at displaying your pain at being taken by him and the memory of your baby as sorrow for actually losing it, Illumi may fall for it. Again, the chances are low, but they exist. He will be devasted and won’t be above using this as a subtle, guilt-inducing manipulation to try convincing you that you were wrong and shouldn’t ever try leaving him again and so on, but it will be better than him ever knowing the truth.

The thought of your child being somewhere else, free and, hopefully, with a loving family is what may give you strength to endure being back to the Zoldyck’s home and having to bear with Illumi’s obsessive “love”.

Should the truth ever come to light, however… Nothing good will come out of it.

Illumi will be beyond furious that you not only kept this a secret but also actively tried to keep his child away. Once more, he may or may not resort to physical punishments, but he will have ways to make his displeasure known anyway and this man can be creative in his methods. There is no telling for how long this will last, but there will be much guilt-tripping, manipulation attempts and all the while he’ll be whispering how this is for your own good, he is merely teaching you…

Don’t worry… He still loves you.

And he will find your child.

And you know this is a promise he will fulfil. And if he has to kill those in charge of the orphanage or even the adoptive family, it won’t be anything that keeps him awake at night. It is his child, after all.

There will be a time (night or day? After weeks, months? Maybe you don’t know anymore) when Illumi enters your (windowless) room carrying the baby and refusing to hand him/her to you for the first minutes, carving a new fear inside you. Depending on how angry he is, Illumi may not allow you to see the child for a while.

But eventually, he allows you to hold it. And you know what Illumi must have done to get the baby back… And you know what he plans to do, you remember the vicious details you heard of the Zoldyck’s way of raising children…

As Illumi smiles to you, saying how now his family is united, all you can do is swear to do your best to keep your baby safe…

In the event of you deciding to abort… Then you should pray all the more that Illumi will never learn of this. If you thought he was “upset” with you for keeping the pregnancy hidden or furious at you for giving the baby away, it won’t be anything compared to how things will be if he ever learns that you aborted it. This has nothing to deal with any stance on the matter of abortion itself but rather the fact that not only you took such a decision without talking to him (not that he would have agreed) and that it was his child.

It is hard to predict how he will deal with this. This may be enough for Illumi to kill you (many stalkers end up killing their victims, despite how much they claim/believe to love them) or his obsession might still be above it, making him still want to keep you, which doesn’t mean he won’t punish you. And this time, he may be determined to break whatever resistance you might still have if this is what it takes to make you stay and no longer entertaining a similar idea when you get pregnant again. It will take a long time for him to forgive you and as terrible as it sounds, perhaps you should act remorseful, docile, and loving for a while to make your life a little easier.

He will use the abortion as ammunition for guilt-tripping during those times (and being good at manipulation like he is, regardless of your stance on the subject, he may very well succeed) as he works to have a better control over you.

But with those thoughts, Illumi may decide to… “Fix” what you did by getting you pregnant again.

Hisoka

While during the first hours Hisoka may face you escaping as a sort of half-amusing game and be satisfied to see you’re not losing that special spark of yours, it doesn’t mean he will wait much before going after you. And if you manage to elude him for long enough, believe me, said “game” will stop being fun quite soon.

Cat-and-mouse game aside, this doesn’t mean he will take well to the fact that you escaped. As soon as he realizes what happened, his entire being will be mainly focused on getting you back, no matter what it takes. And while Hisoka remains (or appears to) as composed as ever, truth is, the more time passes the more anxious (for lack of a better term) he becomes. While he hunts you down, he will be mentally revising the methods he employed to keep you and perfecting them so you won’t have another chance, as well as planning how to teach you to never try this again.

The specifics for how he decides to go with this will depend on his level of obsession and it can get pretty ugly for you, even if he is not at the point of wanting to completely break you into submission. Again, Hisoka likes that you’re still yourself and not a broken doll, but not that you got away.

Disturbingly, Hisoka may also want to spoil you a bit (after he gets you back and it’s all over and done with), taking some time off the fights to stay with you. It’s like he wants to either make up for the days he wasn’t with you or wanting to show you through such actions how much he missed you. It’s (almost) not so different from the other times he acted like this.

Hisoka is not one to simply give up or chance focus, so no matter how difficult it may seem to find you, he will not stop. This makes every little precaution you take valuable… Remember that when he wants something, he gets it and this is in a “normal” state of mind. After all, it shouldn’t be easy to find Chrollo, let alone join the Spiders, but he did. And you’ve already seen how he can be when you’re involved.

You shouldn’t hope that the time apart will make Hisoka grow out of his yandere-ism. It won’t happen so easily (if ever), so you should know better than ever letting your guard down, no matter if it seems everything is fine for the moment. Your past experience with him may help a little with this point.

Expecting him to regret what he did is more than hopeless: It is nonsense. He may even be already aware of the way he “dealt” with his “feelings” for you, but guess what? Hisoka doesn’t care. Not enough. Oh, he may genuinely want you to be happy and, as he searches for you, be also thinking of ways of making you see that being with him isn’t as bad as you believe and so on, but by the end of the day, he would rather have you unhappy with him than happy without him.

He’s already possessive normally. Add a yandere-state and, well…

One to keep his actual emotions and thoughts to himself, no one can tell what he may be feeling during this time, no better than they would with Illumi (whom, speaking of which, he may contact and ask for a little “help” in finding you). Hisoka’s mood may change depending on what his mind if focusing at the moment… If he finds out exactly how you escaped (whether you just grabbed an opportunity or have been planning it carefully) he may admire your strategy, seeing it as proof that you’re indeed made for him, in a sense, only to become angered that it worked. He may lose his patience with how hard finding you is turning out to be, get somewhat upset (or as close as he can get of sad) as he misses you…

And if there is an opportunity of going “all-out” during a fight to let the steam out, you can bet it will be bloody and cruel. It will help to clear his mind a little, but in the end, it will do very little to actually calm him down for more than a few hours top. It’s not like it was when he was preparing to kidnap you and it may make him even more obsessed with you.

And because you’ve spent enough time with Hisoka to get a better understanding of him than you ever wished for, you know how careful you have to be not only with keeping yourself under the radar but your… “Condition”, as well.

So, change appearance, name, looks, constant moving… Everything that can be done in those situations, you do.

Yet… You may wake up in the middle of the night by a certain, deliberate noise… Or come back home a little late and be assaulted by a strange feeling. As soon as you close the door, you know something is different… As much as not a single object has been touched or misplaced, the house in itself doesn’t feel the same… But by the time you stepped in, it was already too late.

Because there is Hisoka, looking as if nothing had happened, almost as if he is simply a husband waiting for his wife.

An act that would be more convincing act if it weren’t for his eyes.

And at once you realize: He knows.

You won’t ever be able to tell for how long he’s been stalking you (again) if he found out about the pregnancy because he saw you at the doctor or learnt about your exams, and really, does it even matter by this point?

He will just approach you, asking with a smile how it was at the doctor (if you’re coming back home from a check-up) or if you don’t have something you would like to tell him, his tone at the same time cold and playful, the way he sometimes talk to his enemies when provoking them during a fight that he knows he’s already won. As if his presence alone wasn’t enough to make your blood run cold.

And if enough time has passed that he might not be the father, Hisoka will ask for the truth (and might want to confirm it once the baby is born, anyway), though he may draw his own conclusions from observing you once he found you anyway.

If you already had the baby, you may find Hisoka standing next to the crib, watching the child, or even holding it in his arms. And regardless if you react with protective fury or dread at the scene, Hisoka will simply give you that smile of his that means trouble while asking what is the problem of a father being near his child. It’s like he is trying to scare you on purpose (and it is a possibility, this being Hisoka after all).

Fatherhood is not something Hisoka ever gave much thought about, as it always felt like something that is more likely to happen to others rather than him, but once he learns about it, he is strangely glad… And frankly, anxious for the birth/raise the baby. He is/going to be a father! You are/going to be parents!

Shouldn’t you be happy as well?

It should be noted once more that he’s happy about the pregnancy, not that you ran off and once he realizes he likes that he’s going to be a dad, he will be displeased that he missed the first months of pregnancy/life of the baby. And his happiness towards the whole ordeal is like the one of having you back: Twisted at its core. A part of him will see and use this as a chance to make you “understand” how you’re meant to be together and while he may not be at the point of objectifying you or the baby, he will make use of said opportunities offered by the situation.

Don’t even try to lie that you got scared when you found out you were pregnant and this is why you left him (even if this might have played a role, albeit not in the sense that Hisoka may be inferring) if he asks. And don’t expect him to accept whatever reasoning you give him anyway, either. Not that it would surprise you much since by now, you must be used to how Hisoka doesn’t believe in the “if you love them, let them go” idea. He will just smile and say you should know how he can be… Possessive, right?

Now, he would much rather prefer to not have to use his Bungee Gum to bring you along, but if you decide to play rough…

Although he is likely to punish you (the method depending on how obsessed he is and how it is affecting him), Hisoka might not do anything related to the baby, like keeping it away from you and you won’t have to fear him hurting it (though it doesn’t mean you won’t worry anyway), but having him acting as if you’re indeed a happy family might be a torture in itself, especially when he suggests you shouldn’t be so sad. After all, you don’t want your child to worry, right?

If you gave the baby up for adoption, Hisoka may never find out about it if you’re careful enough, keeping the whole pregnancy a secret or be convincing enough when lying that the baby was stillborn. And, frankly, it will be better this way in a sense. While he’ll take you with him again, at least you may take some solace in knowing your child won’t have to grow up in this sort of situation or with someone like Hisoka as a father.

If he does find out about it… Well, things will get complicated.

His emotions regarding the chance of fatherhood aside, the reasons why Hisoka won’t take this well might be more because you not only kept the pregnancy a secret but also outright lied about what happened to the baby. If he’s still unsure of what he thinks of being a father, then his reasons for searching for the child and bringing it back will be more out of selfish reasons than anything else.

He might not even tell you that he’s searching for the baby, pretending to accept your words about not being ready to be a mother, thinking this was for the best, etc. (if he ever talked to you about it, rather than not reveal he knows you lied). He’ll just come to the hotel’s room (or wherever you’re staying for the moment) with the baby in his arms and a smile. Oh, dear, why do you seem so nervous? Aren’t you happy to be reunited with your child?

If you decide to abort and Hisoka finds out about it… It is not easy to say exactly what would happen. Hisoka won’t like that you took a decision that should involve him as well (as if you running away wasn’t enough), but with you no longer pregnant and Hisoka having never given much thought about this sort of thing before, his reaction may not be too angry (such as Illumi’s for example) exactly because he wasn’t involved for starters, and didn’t know about it before. It may sound weird but it can be like learning about something that happened too long ago.

The alternative is also possible: Hisoka may get furious and for more reasons than you doing this without him. While he won’t kill you for this, he will still make his displeasure known, so things will be complicated for you for a good time…

Chrollo

The moment Chrollo realizes you escaped, he will contact the Spiders that are with him (or close enough to wherever you both were staying) and order them to search for you. If they have a job that demands full attention (such as the York Shin case) and his presence is needed to get things done, he will stop it (he knows he wouldn’t be able to concentrate and would jeopardize the whole operation). If not, he will tell them to carry on without him and go after you by himself for now.

While Chrollo keeps a certain line between his personal life and the Troupe (although it’s a very thin one since his life is basically the Spider and its goals), the other members would be warned about the situation and many of them would consider finding you their new mission, either out of loyalty to Chrollo or because they consider this a “breach of security” per say, since you’ve been living so close to their boss. Either way, you have not only Chrollo but also some members of the Troupe (if not all of them) hunting you down as well.

As for Chrollo, he would focus all of his energies in finding you and bringing you back. While his general behaviour remains the same, there would be a fiery determination that would be quite creepy (if you were there to see it). Remember that he may be fully aware of his actions, but he reasons with himself that he doesn’t want to hurt you and that he can make you happy (besides, being who he is, his moral compass is seriously lacking), so while the leader of the Ryodan may admit that he understand why you escaped, it won’t make him accept he should leave you alone (even if you beg him once he finds you again). Especially after being with you for so long, so he will be thinking of means to teach you to not do this again and also how to perfect his methods of keeping you captive. If it means preventing you from running away again, he won’t care for what he has to do, even if he has to keep you inside a cage or something.

Like Hisoka, Chrollo may also decide to spend extra time with you afterwards, even taking you to a nice restaurant for example, either as to celebrate having you with him again or as a means to show how much he missed you and how things could be better if you weren’t so stubborn. A twisted line of thought, but maybe not so surprising. Not when Chrollo, on top of being who he already is, becomes a yandere.

Once he finds your trail, a single clue even, then nothing will stop him. As for you, it feels almost like deja-vu, a revival of back when you knew he was stalking you despite your attempts of getting away.

You can go to the authorities and tell everything you know, asking for protection. And, due to the Spiders’ reputation, they would likely do everything in their power to keep you safe and yet, it might not be enough. You certainly feel so, having been close to the Troupe and having seen how relentless they can be. Especially Chrollo when it comes down to you… And of course, you have your condition to think about… Which he would find out either upon finding you or (more likely) as he searches for you.

You might be in a safe house. You might have bodyguards. Top security all around you… And yet, your uncertainty won’t leave you alone… And it will not be unfounded, not when you suddenly wake up and the place is silent… But not a peaceful silence. You may pick a weapon; you may have prepared yourself for this eventuality…

But when you see Chrollo in a room, bodies lying around and he smiles as he greets you…

It’s hard to say if Chrollo has ever thought of having children with you (with his lifestyle, it wouldn’t be easy to raise them), but once he learns it has happened anyway, chances are he will be thrilled about it, once he gets over the initial surprise. He can think about the implications or how you’re going to raise the baby later. He will, however, be even more worried and anxious to get you back. The Spiders have many enemies and while he has kept you a secret, how can you be absolutely sure the Mafia wouldn’t have found out about you or the baby?

Right when he encounters you, he seems to want to touch your belly (regardless if you’re already showing or not) or hold the baby (to your fear), giving a smile when you reject him and acting as if to comfort you. Oh, dear, don’ worry. Sure, he is “upset” with you, but that can wait. Right now, he is just relieved to finally have you again and seeing you’ll have/had his child.

After all, you don’t think he would hurt his own son/daughter, do you?

All the while, he may hold you close (the way he would do when he realized you were thinking about your “previous” life or ways of getting away), whispering how much he loves you and how he wishes you would understand it.

His touch still makes your skin crawl.

Just as Chrollo wouldn’t hesitate to kill the (possible) bodyguards you have with you (or whoever else is helping), he would also say that he did warn you about this and, therefore, those deaths are on your hands as much as his.

Of course, being happy for the baby doesn’t mean he will just ignore your “bad behaviour” or how you “dealt” with the pregnancy. And as for punishments, it would depend on how “upset” he would be and also how much the obsession is affecting his behaviour. Since he’s not completely delusional, he might not be as cruel as Illumi for example, but he wouldn’t ignore your actions either.

There, there, why are you so sad? You should know he’ll take care of his family.

Giving the child to adoption might work well, but there is no telling what the chances are of Chrollo never finding out. It will be nearly impossible to hide the pregnancy from him (especially if Shalnark is still alive and manages to hack your medical files), so you’ll have to lie about a miscarriage or the baby being stillborn. He won’t use it to manipulate you and it’s better to deal with Chrollo grieving than having him trying to find the child because, believe me, he will.

And it’s not something he will take well. Any “normal” reaction a person may have to this sort of thing aside, if Chrollo’s obsession is too deep he may fall in the “objectifying the person” category and, seeing you as a thing that belongs to him, it follows that the baby belongs to him as well. Despite being a thief, he doesn’t suffer for his things to be taken away (feel free to call him a hypocrite).

It will mean an extra punishment for you. As if knowing Chrollo is going after the baby isn’t enough… You may try to prevent this by pointing out how his lifestyle is not one that allows you to properly raise a child, but it’s unlikely it will work.

His methods to get the baby back are the same used to find you: Relentless and without a care for those he has to kill. And in a sense, this will make Chrollo even more determined to keep you (and the baby) with him. Having a child is bound to affect things, not only in the way one expects due to having a baby (under normal circumstances) but including his “security measures” as well: He will want to be absolutely sure you won’t be able to escape again. If he has to lay low for some months or always leave a member of the Troupe with you when he has a “job”, then so be it.

The same lie regarding miscarriage or stillborn is also necessary in the event of an abortion. The normal displeasure one may feel when learning their “partner” took such a decision without talking to them will be present, but there is Chrollo’s yanderism to be taken into account.

Whether or not he’s at the point of objectifying you or truly believe he loves you, the fact remains that he won’t just shrug this abortion off as if it’s nothing.

If he never finds out, then it’s like it would be with the adoption: There will be grief, but it’s better than the alternative. Like in the other cases, the specifics of his reaction are related to how deep his obsession is and how it affects his behaviour, but there is no denying that Chrollo will be “disappointed”, even angry at you and it may interfere in how he treats you for a while. There is no guarantee he won’t be at the point of using this to try and manipulate you (regardless of where you stand in the matter of abortion, Chrollo will find a way to use this if he deems necessary).

#headcanon #hunxterxhunter #yandere #pregnant #baby #hxh #Hisoka #Illumi #Illumi Zoldyck #Chrollo #Kuroro #Lucifer #this turned out longer than I expected #hxh headcanon #hunter x hunter

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mallorytaylorblog · 4 years ago

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Suffering.

25th October 2020.

What does the word suffering mean? When I looked it up in the dictionary, I got a few different definitions.

“The condition of one who suffers.”

“An instance of pain and distress.”

“The bearing of pain, inconvenience, or loss.”

Based on those definitions alone I think it’s safe to say we’ve all experienced suffering at one point in our lives. We could even be suffering now - I know for me, living in Melbourne, suffering is a much talked about topic and everyone has a totally different and individual experience to convey.

In the context of mental wellness, I think suffering is a really interesting topic to ponder.

There are two truths that I believe are guaranteed about suffering.

1) suffering is inevitable, and 2) suffering is a choice.

If feels contradictory but I think these two truths are actually complimentary in nature.

One thing I find interesting about suffering is that it often manifests itself as a mental and emotional affliction - sure we can be physically in pain, but when I think of suffering I think less of things like injuries, which can be acute and are fairly simple to overcome. I think of suffering in the 21st century as things like ruminating over a situation or interaction over and over again, replaying the same scene thinking about all the things you can have said or done differently in the moment. It’s things like mulling over a heart break, it’s the embarrassing moments that get seared into your brain, ready for reliving every night just as your about to fall asleep. In my opinion, it’s human nature to wonder, “What if?” because as a species we’re wired to hope for better. We’re driven by love, acceptance and belonging so when things don’t go to plan we can get stuck in a trap of letting the wheel spin over and over in the same spot. It doesn’t get us anywhere and only serves to hurt us further, keeping us trapped in a moment in time reliving something that we cannot change.

It’s the meaning we assign to things that causes us to mentally and emotionally suffer. Nothing is permanent yet we suffer when we are afflicted with things like loss and heartbreak. They may not cause us physical pain, but the mental and emotional effects of such events can last well after the event has occurred.

I suffered a lot as a child. I was bullied a lot, I felt neglected at home, I struggled to communicate my emotions and felt rejected and unloved. I had this yucky story about having to earn love, like I wasn’t worthy of it just for being me. So I suffered with having to feel like I needed to put on a facade or change who I was in order to be accepted. I was diagnosed with depression at age 12 and took anti-depressants for years, so I suffered with that. I had eating disorders for nearly two decades, so my relationship with my body and with food and exercise suffered a lot. I felt forgotten in my family, I punished myself for things that weren’t my fault, and I felt a lot of pain and anxiety as a kid that translated to my story as an adult. None of my physical injuries as a kid affected me long term growing up, but the meaning I assigned to the events that hurt me mentally and emotionally created the beliefs and stories I subscribed to as a kid and as an adult.

One thing I think is important to remember when talking about suffering is that pain is relative. No one has authority to tell someone that what they’re enduring is worthy of suffering, only the individual gets to decide that. I grew up an angry, sad, confused and heart broken kid, but in the eyes of another person, I had a family of four older siblings and two parents who loved me, I had a roof over my head, I went to a nice school. I had a hot meal to eat every night and I had a comfy bed to sleep in. If suffering is a mostly mental and emotional affliction, it’s handy to remember that regardless of outward appearances everyone has endured different degrees of suffering. We have all been through something that has changed us.

Which brings me to the first truth.

Suffering is inevitable.

We’re always going to find situations, events, people, things that make us hurt. To me, it’s human nature to be kind and loving. If we’re open to love, and it is our human nature to love and be loved, then it’s also in our nature to be hurt and to suffer. We’re compassionate and kind by nature and we hope for the best for each other and ourselves. Of course we’re going to suffer, we’re constantly aiming high when it comes to our experience of life, and as we know life doesn’t always deliver exactly what we expect.

I believe only those who are hurting hurt other people. It doesn’t feel good to hurt another person, unless we’re already suffering in some way. To me, the term “hurt people hurt people” tells us we need to be more compassionate and less judgemental. If we knew the pain others were suffering we may not be so quick to persecute or condemn. Perhaps we’d be more inclined to understand. We all live such unique and different experiences, but our nature is to love and be loved. That however opens us up to the vulnerability of heart break and rejection. It’s the duality of life - where there is pleasure, there is pain. Where the is a win, there is a lesson. Where there is rain there is a rainbow. We’re a pleasure seeking species so, as the balance of life dictates, as above so below, where we seek pleasure we also seek suffering. It’s a part of the human condition.

I mentioned before that the meaning that we assign to things is what ends up causing us mental and emotional suffering. We experience something, we decide what that experience means for us, and then we continue living our lives with another lens through which to view our world. A lot of the time it’s the stories we write for ourselves that determine how much or how long we suffer.

So if the first truth is “suffering is inevitable” and the second is “suffering is a choice’, how is it that they’re complimentary?

Well yes, we all experience mental and emotional anguish at some point of our lives, it’s absolutely unavoidable. That anguish however can either be used to write an empowering story, or a disempowering one. This is the meaning that we assign to events and, even though it may not seem like it at the time, we always have a choice in how we suffer. We get to choose the meaning we assign.

I was diagnosed with depression when I twelve years of age. That’s a young age to be battling a mental illness. That diagnosis changed the way I viewed myself, it added another lens to the way in which I processed and viewed my world. My story for a long time was that I was broken and unworthy of love. My mental illness diagnosis was the foundation to that story, it was the proof that supported that belief. There was nothing physically wrong about me, I was just a little kid who wanted more than my parents could give me. But the fact that my mother took me to the doctor, who then told us that I had ABC diagnosis and that these pills were the “fix”. told me that Mallory = Broken. My belief that I was unlovable just the way I was, was emboldened by that event. And I suffered for decades after that because the meaning I assigned to that event was that I was a burden to my mother. That’s heavy for any kid to suffer. As an adult, this belief manifested itself in many ways. I suffered relationships that didn’t work out due to my lack of self worth, I suffered estrangement from my mother and siblings, I suffered despair and loneliness like you wouldn’t believe, and I suffered a relationship with myself that was without love and acceptance (all the things I outwardly craved the most). The meaning I assigned to the doctor’s visit that day built a wall around my heart that prevented anything that didn’t support the “Broken Mallory” narrative from coming in.

That started at age 12. I’m 31 now. And every now and then you just get tired of your own shit. Can anyone relate to this?

I got tired of suffering that belief.

I got tired of seeing others out there living their lives to the max while I felt weighed down by this bullshit story that kept me suffering and in pain for so long.

I couldn't choose my parents. I couldn’t choose the way they decided to love me. The one thing I could choose, however, was the story. I could choose to assign a different meaning to the things that hurt me as a kid. I could choose to look at the belief that I’m broken and unlovable, and say “This isn’t working for you any more, Mallory. Time to switch it up”.

Perspective is helpful when it comes to choosing what you suffer. Delicately balancing the validation and acknowledgement of your pain, and looking outside of your bubble for examples where there is hope to be gained is a necessary life skill I believe. It takes a lot of practice, especially if you’re like me and never felt like your pain was valid or worthy of acknowledgement. It helps to know that yes you’ve got it bad, but you’ve also got it pretty good, to shift the way you view things.

For me, that looked like deciding that my mum was taking me to the doctor because she loved and cared about me, and wanted the best for me. She did the best with what she knew. Viewing the event through that lens changed everything about the meaning I had assigned to that day. I wasn’t a burden she didn’t know how to deal with, she was caring for me the best way she knew how.

So yes, in the context of mental wellness suffering is inevitable, but it’s also most definitely a choice. It’s choosing to enjoy all the fruits whilst being okay with some weeds, and not letting the weeds overcome our gardens.

We can choose to see things through a different lens.

For me, the broken and unlovable story become a story about the power of emotional vulnerability, and how opening yourself up to the world only encourages the world to meet you half way. You only get out what you put in, and if choosing to stay stuck in your pain only encourages more pain, then it’s up to us to choose a different meaning for ourselves.

So how do you do that? How do you choose another meaning? When I’m experiencing some sort of mental or emotional pain, I ask myself “What do you need right now in this moment?” and give myself permission to do what’s most soothing and enjoyable in order for me to lift my spirits. So the first step is acknowledging the pain, giving yourself permission to feel it without judgement, then getting back to equilibrium. Then when I’m feeling more grounded, I can examine my emotions to look for the story underneath it, to find the meaning I have assigned to the event that created the belief.

Once you get to the root of the belief, you can explore other ways of viewing the event. Remember compassion and kindness is our human nature, so where can we bring this lens into view?

This is the sort of stuff that working with a coach can be greatly assisted by. It takes practice to dive into our pain and reinterpret what it means for us, and having someone to guide you through the work to begin with, before it becomes habitual, can get you off on the right foot.

Viktor Frankl, the holocaust survivor and author of Man’s Search For Meaning, says, “This is the core of the human spirit. If we can find something to live for - if we can find some meaning to put at the centre of our lives - even the worse kind of suffering becomes bearable”.

So with that in mind, I have three questions for you to ponder. Preferably while you’re journaling on the scenarios or people you’re suffering over.

So what meaning are you choosing? What stories are you writing for yourself? Which lens do you choose to view the world through?

#mental health #suffering #mental wellbeing #mindset #mindset coach #spirituality #spiritual awakening #spirit guides #the m word blog #positive affirmations #inner child healing #deep dive #shadow work #depression #confidence

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lunar-years · 6 years ago

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Okay, first of all, please don’t read this if you love Rafael or are pro-Jafael... just don’t do that to yourself. Also, warning for season five spoilers.

This is essentially an absurdly long rant post because I realized I’ve never fully articulated why I don’t like J*fael, and given the leaks/spoilers of the finale, I really want to just get out all of my thoughts out there about this horrible endgame. So here goes....

There are essentially two reasons I don’t like J*fael, the main one being that while I don’t think Rafael is fundamentally a bad person, I do think he is fundamentally bad for Jane. Neither of them are their best selves when they are together, and this has been shown time and time again on the show. The second reason is that J*fael would never work in the long-term, now in season five for the same reason they didn’t work back in season 1. Rafael as a person is incredibly self-centered, arrogant, and angry. He relies on unhealthy coping mechanisms and shuts people out if things don’t go his way. He needs to work through his own shit before he can be successful in any relationship, let alone one with Jane.

The biggest problem I have with Rafael individually is that he doesn’t handle conflict maturely, and never has. Obviously he has been through a lot in his life that prevented him from developing healthy ways of coping, but as a grown ass adult that is merely an explanation and not a justification. Rafael never holds himself accountable, and he never gets the help he needs. Unfortunately, the people around him (cough Jane) all enable him in this, coddling him and never calling him out on his bullshit behavior. He’s fine as long as things are going his way, but as soon as he feels his happiness is threatened, he’s a lose cannon. This magnifies and manifests whenever he fears Jane is going to leave him.

His behavior in season five, for example, has been incredibly possessive and toxic. He’s acting like a child whose had his favorite toy taken away from him, instead of being mature enough to see things from Jane’s point-of-view for once. Her husband has come back from the dead, for pete’s sake!! Michael didn't leave, he didn’t run away, he didn’t hurt Jane intentionally in any way. He was taken, tortured, and left unaware of who he even was. His relationship with Jane didn’t come to end on purpose. Yet Rafael acts like Jane is crazy for not wanting to immediately divorce Michael, and kicks her out of their house when she voices her confusion and pain and uncertainty after he gets his memory back. It’s completely irrational on Rafael’s part, who is acting like Jane is an object he has won instead of a person with real emotions going through a very real trauma. Obviously Rafael being hurt by Jane possibly leaving him for Michael again and having his life suddenly turned upside down is all valid. What's irritating is him acting like his emotions and hurt matter more than other people’s. Jane had her husband taken away from her against her will. Meanwhile Michael, frankly, is the only one who has lost literally everything. Yet Rafael doesn’t spare a passing thought about Michael’s trauma but instead immediately diminishes it and appropriates it for himself (i.e. his bullshit “I’ve got my memories back too” stance... which is just so problematic in so many ways but I digress).

His behavior now that Michael is back also shades his behavior when Michael was “dead.” For someone who supposedly changed so much in the five years after Michael died, and who was there to help Jane through her mourning, Rafael sure reverted back fast to his old ways as soon as the “threat” against him and Jane reemerged. Rafael was fine so long as Michael was dead and no longer taking away from Raf’s personal happiness, but as soon as Michael returns he is back to being a selfish asshole. That doesn’t say much for Rafael’s “helping Jane through her grief” and almost makes it seem like all along it was just something he did just to win her back when he saw an open window for it. Being there for Jane when she was widowed means he knows just how deeply Jane loved Michael and just how long it took for her to heal from that loss. Yet he still acts like it should be easy for Jane to immediately cut Michael out of her life when he reappears. Yikes.

The other infuriating thing about Rafael is his behavior and treatment towards his family. Rafael treats Louisa like shit. Flat out. He criticizes and judges her for her addictions despite struggling with alcohol reliance himself. He sells her out for his own gains, and he generally treats her with a “holier than thou” attitude that is incredibly irritating to watch and always has been. Then you have Petra and the twins. The scene when Petra calls Rafael out for treating her and their daughters like second class citizens is one of my absolute favorites because it’s so damn true and it’s about time Petra said it!! What’s annoying is that in the seasons since, Rafael has not learned from that confrontation or grown from it. Whether he and Jane are together or not at any given moment, it is obvious that he will always put Jane and Mateo before Petra and the twins. That's terrible parenting, I'm sorry, but it is. He also plays “good parent” with Mateo all the time, making Jane do all the grunt work of punishing and correcting Mateo’s poor behavior while he excuses Mateo’s bad actions instead of teaching him how to do better (made especially obvious in the last episode...yikes yikes yikes.)

Then there’s his relationship with Jane. Oh, J*fael. To be clear, I’ve shipped Villadero from the beginning, which probably made me biased about J*fael early on. Still, even when Michael was behaving horribly and the narrative was clearly urging viewers to root for Raf, I could never get behind him. To me, the Jane and Rafael attraction has always seemed so... surface-level. Like, they have a few wet dreams about one another and suddenly, because they’re accidentally having a kid together, they’re both fully invested in the idea of them being soulmates. In reality, Jane and Rafael have like, nothing in common. Seriously, what do these two talk about it? Rafael has proven multiple times that he doesn't respect Jane’s religion, he doesn't make any effort to see things from her less privileged life perspective, and he doesn’t really place any value in anything she values. They are quite possibly the blandest relationship on the show. The only thing they seem to have holding them together is Mateo. And the only thing they seem to do is to constantly have sex.

My obviously subjective view about their chemistry (or lack thereof) aside, Rafael and Jane simply seem to bring out the worst in one another. When Rafael disagrees with Jane, he gets angry and irrational. He tries to handle disagreements by kicking and screaming, instead of facilitating civilized discussion. Jane, meanwhile, just cowers in front of him and takes it because she’s so “blinded by love.” I’m sorry, what?? After the way Rafael treated Jane last episode, putting their child between them, I do not see any scenario where the strong-willed, independent Jane from season one marries that guy a few months later, though apparently that’s what’s happening (*gag*). Rafael is constantly pressuring her to do things his way instead of actually listening to her and trying to understand her perspective. I will never understand why Jane goes back to Rafael when he continuously treats her in that sort of way. Rafael bases his entire self worth in Jane, yet at the same time he doesn't seem to actually value Jane’s thoughts and feelings. These are not the makings of a healthy relationship. Jane's behavior in season five has also been out of character, with her asking Jason to leave and saying she wished Michael had never come back. While Jane might not be in love with Michael/Jason five years later, especially when he is totally different to who he once was, you cannot make me believe she wouldn’t still love him and want to help him anyway that she could, even if she wants to be with Rafael. And she would definitely be grateful that he gets to live. The poor writing this season truly feels like the writers are simultaneously proving why J*fael doesn’t work and then forcing them together once they’ve already fallen apart.

I truly truly hate the idea that Jane is now going to go back to Rafael, who still hasn’t gotten help for his personal issues, and marry him at the end of this godforsaken season where he's been treating her terribly. For a show that I have always viewed as progressive and unique, this ending is one of the most baseless, fan-service endgames ever. Rafael using Mateo against Jane last episode was the final straw. After that i truly do not see any scenario where Jane would realistically go back to him. Rafael needs to grow up, wise up, and focus a little more on being a good father, friend and brother before I will ever believe that he would make a good husband.

#jtv #villadero #anti rafael #anti jafael #jtv spoilers #if anyone actually reads all of this...thank you for your time #please don't come into my inbox with hate i told y'all not to read it if you like them #this is mainly just a rant post for myself

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bastarddadsinc · 5 years ago

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(( I realized that I never actually posted this but here are some of my thoughts on the types of abuse each of the dads on this blog have engaged in

This is really long...names are bolded if you want to read a specific muse’s section ))

Disclaimer: I want to start by saying I am writing this from the perspective of someone that has not experienced parental abuse of any kind. I do have a bachelor's in psychology, but it wasn’t clinical track and abuse was not my area of concentration. Neither was child psych.

There are seven main types of parental abuse physical, mental, emotional, verbal, financial, sexual and spiritual. I don’t think ANY of my muses have engaged in sexual abuse against their children. Against others, possibly, but not their children. You’re free to disagree with me and have your own headcanons on this matter, but for the purposes of this blog no sexual abuse was committed against their children. I also don’t believe that spiritual was a component either.

If I am mistaken or forgetting something please let me know.

Gabriel- Mainly neglect/ignoring. He has very few interactions with Adrien and those he does are brief and generally not positive. Gabriel doesn’t acknowledge or reward Adrien’s successes or even discuss his life on a day to day basis. But there’s also lots of emotional, mental and verbal abuse. Isolation is the most extreme. Adrien had to beg to be able to go to school like the rest of his peers and even after he starts attending the rest of his schedule is strict and Gabriel is in complete control of it. Also controlling when Adrien is allowed to leave, rarely letting him out of the house for anything he deems ‘not important’. There is also very little physical warmth any time Adrien hugs his father Gabriel is extremely uncomfortable. I previously thought physical abuse was not present, but after Chat Blanc I have to question. He knew Cat Noir was Adrien and still hit him across Paris, sure he knew it wouldn’t kill his son...but still. I imagine physical was probably a last resort. (A slap)

One thing I don’t think people think about much is I truly believe Gabriel sees Adrien as an extension of himself. He can also fence, speak Japanese and play the piano. Adrien doesn’t seem to have any interest in these activities but performs them anyways.

Madarame- Financial abuse is the most predominant. Consistently he didn’t tell Yusuke what his art actually sold for and likely did this with his other pupils as well. He also probably gave Yusuke very little money for food, essentials and supplies while leading him to believe that they were truly struggling. That just giving him that was already asking for a lot.

We know that Yusuke was aware that something wasn’t right with the other pupils so I imagine that he witnessed arguments between Madarame and the others. Considering how long he “turned a blind eye” I imagine Madarame may have gaslit him and lied about the argument. I don’t believe physical abuse was present. It was much easier for Madarame to play on Yusuke’s sympathy and fondness.

Okumura- Exploitation is big here. He clearly only saw his daughter as a tool. To be married off for his own gain. He was at least aware that Sugimura wasn’t a good person and didn’t care. Whenever something happened between Haru and Sugimura he always blamed her and said that she had to apologize. He truly doesn’t care what Haru wants and lied to her about the consequences of refusing to comply. Okumura is very dismissive of Haru and talks over her.

Shido- While he wasn’t part of Goro’s life up until age 16 and wasn’t aware that Akechi was his son I don’t feel that him knowing would have changed anything. Even in the capacity of being Goro’s employer, he’s extremely manipulative. Constantly demanding Goro perform heinous acts for him. I wouldn’t doubt that he consistently threatened to expose Goro’s crimes for failure to perform/obey, but also promised rewards for compliance. He also demands that Goro put his requests above anything else.

I have written an au where he did raise Goro (though a nanny handled most of his care) where physical abuse occurred frequently with the mentality that he truly wouldn’t learn without it. He also basically raises Goro to be exactly like him. He keeps his son to an unattainable standard of behavior, dress, speech, and achievement. Nitpicks and gets him to ignore interests and socializing in order to receive praise. He also denies that Goro has any lasting mental trauma after his mother committed suicide and refuses to allow him to see a mental health professional.

Jack- A little bit harder to define here. A combo of physical and financial. He was using Angel to further his own goals which did physically hurt her to the point where death was preferable. However, I believe that Jack felt considerable guilt over it. That he never truly wanted to hurt his daughter. It is revealed that one reason behind keeping her contained was that Angel did not have excellent control of her Siren powers after they manifested. He is furious after she’s killed.

Odin- The main problem here is favoritism. Thor was always put on a pedestal, but Loki never measured up. Thor received all the praise and affection from Odin while Loki got very little if any. Likely Loki felt extremely unwanted for most of his life and in order to gain his father's attention started acting out. Odin consistently makes jabs at Loki and put down talents that Loki prides himself on. There’s always comparison between Thor and Loki though he claims to have treated them equally. Even behaviors that were praised for Thor were criticized for Loki. The desire to rule and conquer.

He also just ollies out with Hela like “You handle my failure.” Which is an avoidance of responsibility. He even outright says to Loki at one point “Your birth rite was to die” and that he is the only reason Loki is still alive. Odin really only views Loki as an unwanted child that never stopped acting out.

AFO- There is a prevailing belief that All for One lied to Tomura about how his family died. As the chapter about Tomura’s backstory is titled differently than the other villains. If this is the case then there is severe memory manipulation and gaslighting. Tomura was originally a pretty sweet kid. He liked to play heroes with other kids, so in order to create a successor, AFO had to destroy that. To twist him into the angry and vengeful adult we see now.

AFO definitely sees Tomura as an extension of himself and thus why he’s willing to offer so much for the other to succeed. One thing I do find odd is how accepting of failure AFO is. Any time Tomura fails he simply encourages the other to try again.

Enji/Endeavor- The biggest physical abuse perpetrator. By nature Enji is a very intimidating person, he prides himself on being large and imposing if he’s willing to use that against villains then he likely also willing to use it against his family. We know for a fact that he was “training” Shoto and we believe Toya as well. I imagine that he would go as far as to trap them in the training room until he felt their performance was satisfactory. Withholding food was a possible punishment when his expectations weren’t meant.

Enji is very easy to enrage. I imagine that his anger and voice were big pieces of the abuse. Fuyumi always seems to be treading carefully whenever she speaks to him.

He also isolated Shoto from his other siblings the “failures”. So there were some elements of mental, emotional and verbal abuse as well. We see the effects of that label on Fuyumi and Natsuo well into adulthood. Sources

https://pro.psychcentral.com/exhausted-woman/2016/12/7-types-of-parental-abuse/

https://sociopathicstyle.com/emotional-abuse-by-narcissistic-parents/

#tw: mention of suicide #tw: child abuse #tw: abuse #tw: parental abuse #tw: parental neglect #tw: neglect

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overanalyzingelswordiswhatido · 6 years ago

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Add is a Protector

Even though he has nowhere near the defense stats required to be one. Though, he's only actively protective of what he deems to be his. Because to try to protect anything else is a waste of energy from his perspective. And I suppose I would be talking specifically about Doom Bringer, since that's his route in the actual story.

He's actually shown to be protective as early as Ruben. When Ann is going on about how the elven ruins are an important tourist destination Add asks why she's talking like they belong to her. It's extremely passive and he doesn't actually do anything about it because the ruins aren't his either. Then of course you have Toma in Bethma. But you also see the vaguest kind of almost sympathy for Chacha Buch when they have to kill Berauk. Also, he's pissed when they find out that Kayak is messing with the dead. That one's pretty obvious considering his mother's status. In Altera, you see that vague kind of sympathy again with the Ponggos. Specifically when Adel talks about when Ignis and Leviathan went on a rampage and destroyed a lot of their village. Add tells him that those who can't fight or defend themselves get hurt and taken advantage of and that's just how the world works. That does seem pretty harsh, but then he continues to help the Ponggos even when it would be going out of his way to do so. And, unlike Elder or even Bethma, he doesn't hold it against them. Also, while he really doesn't have the right to do so, he gives himself the role of either keeper (or guardian I can't remember which but I'm PRETTY sure its keeper) of the Altera Core in one of his end of dungeon dialogues. That sort of role is specifically both as a caretaker and a protector. It is possessive in nature but it implies a lack of (from Add's point of view) destructive intention. I mentioned this in my analysis of Add and Laby but Add and Allegro are actually amazing and you will have to pry their friendship from my cold dead hands. And again, we see more of Add's protectiveness with Allegro. And we also see more sympathy from Add with Allegro. With Allegro (and Toma) it's more that Add is protecting their interests and emotions than protecting them physically. He's very supportive of both of them and encourages them to do what they're good at. To do what will help the people they care about. Also, he agrees to gather the gargoyle horns to boost morale because he recognizes how important it is. Instead of just deciding to deal with it himself, he helps Lento boost the spirits of the soldiers.

In Velder there are two moments. I don't remember when specifically the first one is, but at some in Velder he says, in reference to the El Search Party, that he might be a little upset if they all died here. And of course he continues stalking them like the stalker he is, but that implies that, while she is still his main goal, it's not just Eve he's watching out for any longer. The second one is when the Glitter Vanguard explodes. Add is pissed. He's pissed the demons outsmarted him. But we've seen him respond to being outsmarted before, and while he got mad then, it wasn't to that extent. I'm assuming here, but given previous moments in the story I don't think it's a stretch. I think he got so angry in Velder because there was a cost to being outsmarted that he wasn't expecting to pay. Because Add is cool with sacrifice. He's also aware that this is war and that not everyone will make it out. But he wasn't expecting to be outsmarted and so he wasn't prepared to lose as much as he did in that single moment. But, unlike Elsword who tries to rush in to save them and get revenge, Add redirects himself without too much trouble to getting those that are still okay out of that situation. Part of that is because he is used to sacrifice while Elsword isn't. But I also think it's because he's already lost a lot in that situation. He's not prepared to sacrifice any more so he makes sure he isn't going to have to. In Hamel, Add's official introduction to the El Search Party is when he protects Eve. And based on the way the dialogue scene plays out I'm assuming he got in the way. When there were about five million other things he could've done, it seems to me that he got in the way. And yes, he's possessive of Eve and that is NOT healthy. But that situation is still protective in nature. Then of course there's the fact that he treats Chung and Ara similar to other childlike characters. I don't remember much of Sander. I hate Sander. But in Lanox there's an interesting sort of situation with Gloria and Darkmoon. Yes, Add interrogated them and accidentally made them cry, yet with adults he wouldn't have bothered with the interrogation at all. He has little regard or sympathy for Ignia despite her situation obviously being a difficult one. But, despite being suspicious of them and their ssituation, he still asks them about it. I also vaguely recall moments with Steel that are similar??? But I don't actually remember. There's also Yuno of course.

And, tangenting for a second, I noticed that at some point between Altera and Atlas the way he refers to Nasods has changed. In Altera he talked about them like they were prizes to be won. In Atlas he talks about them more like... This is probably gonna sound weird, but in Atlas he talks about more like how a scientist talks about an animal. That implies though that while they still aren't quite sentient or autonomous to him, he's recognized that they are alive. There's also the fact that he is very proud of the fact that he helped upgrade Yuno's body to make an allowance for his more powerful core. The thing about that is if he hadn't gained Eve's trust at some point she would not have allowed him ANYWHERE near Yuno while Yuno was so vulnerable. And Add didn't do anything to Yuno except upgrade his body. And Add's so proud of himself for it. Idk that really stuck out to me.

Anyway, back to Add being protective. In Atlas it's almost exclusive to Yuno. Because I think that in spending time with Eve, Add picked up (probably subconsciously) that if they're like Eve then they're basically human. The reason I think that is because he treats Yuno exactly the same way he treats other kids. That clashes very hard with how he treats other Nasods. Yet, you see this lack of objectification with Dekal as well. Because Add talks about Dekal the way he does people. He respects Dekal's pursuit of knowledge but also isn't going to let him get in the way. That's practically exactly his attitude with Wally. He was drawn to Wally because of the latter's own fascination for Nasods. The difference between Dekal and Wally is Add needed Wally there for a little bit.

NOT THAT ITS OKAY OR KOSHER but even Add's possessiveness over Nasods is protective in its essence. Possessiveness is often a desire to protect warped by fear until it's unrecognizeable as such. And Nasods as a concept and in their being are one of the few things he can still recognize and understand in the current time, as well as being a hold over from a time in his life when he felt safest and comfortable.

I think his overall patience with more child-like characters is part of his protectiveness as well. Add knows that losing it with a kid WILL hurt them all too well. So while it is most definitely a struggle sometimes, he tries hard to keep his cool. With the more childlike characters his protectiveness goes above and beyond where it normally is. Not only does he protect them physically, but he encourages them and protects their emotions. Rarely ever do we see him actively protecting an adult, let alone to that sort of extent.

#elsword #elsword online #edward add grenore #add elsword #add #add grenore #psychic tracer #lunatic psyker #doom bringer #arc tracer #mastermind #dominator #time tracer #diabolic esper #mad paradox #can you tell ive played 4 adds #its obvious isnt it

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maevelin · 6 years ago

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Episode 1x05

1. Five has lived such a hard life. Truly. And in the end all that it mattered to him was to get back to save his family. He is such a cynic but he genuinely cares!

And he literally is a master assassin! That alone makes him one of my faves!

Seriously though....An adult that is a master assassin trapped in a child’s body. Dude that’s rough LOL...Although imagine the options!

Although he does get a second chance and I feel that despite everything he may be the most emotionally balanced and driven person from their group. Which does not say much because they are all messed up big time so even in comparison we are still talking about a mess but yeah.

Let us face it. He is the only one that actually seems to pay attention to his siblings. Klaus most of all. He actually bothers to ask and care for his well being too. Sure he is also interested in the time travel part but he actively cares for his family despite how smug he can be and how big his ego is. He is also jaded from time too but still has a heart. He is wise too.

And at least Five can see the bigger picture here. This is why I think has a plan otherwise he wouldn’t follow the handler that easily.

Although his only perspective is not the way to go. He needs more than what he can do alone. He needs his family. Not just to save them. But to let them save him too. Together to save the world.

Which reminds me.

“That’s murder.

...Jesus Luther, grow up”

Should I point out that Luther’s spiel about a code makes no sense when he does not have any? Not truly. Sure he has some morals here and there but are they his? His code was only the indoctrination he received form daddy dearest. At least everyone else took some distance and tried to form their own personalities. He remained the dutiful son. I wonder how is that working out of him lol

And he is so desperate to take upon the mantle of the leader...like dude chill. And if we go by age at this point you could try see past appearance if you are leader material and acknowledge that Five is actually much older than you and take that under consideration instead of dismissing him mentally because you only see your kid brother.

At this point I feel that the only genuine emotions he has separate from his father are the incestuous feelings he has for his sister which is twisted on its own even more than the rest. I mean...

2. The end of everything?...Not everything...the end of something.

I admit that’s interesting. Also I always find it amusing. For every dystopian futuristic apocalypse humans act as if everything in earth is their survival and theirs alone when in reality either way Earth goes on and maybe even in better conditions without the human race in it. We are never humble when we imagine such a future are we?

3. Klaus....KLAUS.

Sure...let me start a new show I say...let me enjoy a new series I say... let me let it break my heart, rip it out of my chest and stomp all over it!

The scene comes with Klaus in the bus and I am in pieces. I can’t! And then the pain keeps on coming!

I can’t believe that all his siblings ever saw him as a joke when he is obviously hurting as much as they do if not more. And now...now it is all coming to a head and they still do not see it. Klaus barely moves and he talks slowly and is silent and looks as if he has quit life and they still don’t see it Unless he breaks down in front of them in all the dramatic crying and spell it out for them they don’t realize it.

Five saw it . Diego had time to see it but even that had to be stretched thin for him to actually see his brother suffering.

How can Klaus’ pain be so invisible to his family? How is that even possible?

And the show keeps breaking him more and more and I...

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THIS SHOW THAT THEY HAVE TO KEEP HURTING KLAUS SO MUCH AND LIKE THAT? WHY???? HE DOES NOT DESERVE THAT! LEAVE HIM ALONE! STOP!

My boy is so depressed. In pieces. Suffering from PTSD of all sorts.

And...Dave. HOLY SHIT! That picture. The sounds of the bombs...The war...Klaus is a Veteran...he served in the war...and is now suffering loss and post traumatic effects. SHIT!

OMFG! I CAN’T DO THIS! IT HURTS SO MUCH!

I would like to add that I would also pretty much appreciate it if when Klaus says someone tortured him ...for others to actually oh I don’t know...MAYBE ACKNOWLEDGE IT?

- Kudos to the actor for his acting! Either it is his dramatic acting or his comedic timing. He owns it!

3.5. Klaus’ and Diego’s scenes WERE PRICELESS!

And that ice cream truck scene..go faster!....WEEHEEEEE!

I Couldn’t stop laughing LMAO

4. I am getting more and more attached with Diego. His stutter and his anger. I liked the potential her had with Eudora and I got sad in the last episode when she died but as I watch the episode now I feel that as a plot it is the kind of one that serves for a male character’s pain and was a bit unnecessary. I don’t like the disposable woman trope for the sake of male development and here it feels so not needed because I am relating with Diego for reasons that don’t have anything to do with Eudora’s loss. His speech issues, his anger, the way he viewed his mom, his scenes with Luther and Klaus. All these things make him interesting and show layers in him. Sure I get his pain with Eudora now but they could have gone without that and I could have kept the ship you know!

Anyhow I start to relate to Diego a lot. And the fact that he actually bothered to ask Klaus if he was okay and then followed him and helped him surely helped me liking him even more. And they connected over their loss which is probably very rare for them to do so if it has even happened before (although we still get in the way the tragic bury your gays trope and the fridging of female characters)...but all in all when Klaus opened up to Diego and Diego was there...it broke my heart but also mended it a little bit too.

BROWNIE POINTS FOR THEIR BRAWL! GO GO GO!

I think what in the end wins me over with Diego is that he gives the most sibling vibe out of every other sibling in the sense that when you pair him with any of the brothers and the sisters you immediately get the sibling vibe either it is the funny kind or the annoying kind or the strained kind. The caring is there, the annoying each other is there, the I am the one to mess with my family but no one else is allowed is there, I will kick their asses but I will always have their backs is there, the I can’t stand them is there etc. He fights with Luther and they ignite each other and you still see the brothers. Same with Klaus now. I got glimpses with Five. Even with Vanya even when he called her a liability while still being angry with her. With Allison too to an extent. That kind of dynamics with him work perfectly.

I have seen him so far with his family and I just feel like how is how brothers act with each other or how a brother acts with their sisters and so on and with Diego is effortless.

5. The thing with Vanya will not end well. It can’t be a coincidence that she is getting her powers only days before the apocalypse.

So if she was taking the pills from her childhood it means that her abusive dad got her hooked on them and once she cuts them she gets energetic and happy and has a sharper edge to the way she perceives the world. And as always in such shows powers are related to emotions. Now that she is off the meds she gets her make up, she gets more confident in her responses, she is succeeding. And with the creepy guy giving her calculated nudges she opens up more and more. So the drugs kept her subdued? Why? There was a ripple when she was playing the violin. So she has powers too powers that were hibernating because of the drugs.

And the end scene with the ripple going all through town...in the creep’s attic next to the violinist he killed was the book Klaus’ threw away in the pilot right? The one Pogo was looking? Their dad’s book. So it has something to do with Vanya and her powers that are now awakening.

How did her father screw up with her too? At this point it is more or less finding the ways their dad didn’t mess them up instead of the other way around.

6. Pogo and Grace. Something is definitely up and of course it all ties together with the end of the world right?

And Diego had to be right. Mom is feeling things for sure.

7. Luther’s attitude tires me a lot even though I get where he is coming from. He is just so...righteous? In a weird way. And has the kind of alpha male traits I find off putting.

8. I am finding Allison boring for the most part of it. The moment she is not in a scene I seem to forget she exists if I am being honest here so I can only hope that her arc is leading into something big.

9. Hazel and that waitress are kind of cute.

P.s:

- That bar fight! LOL...Klaus HEAD BUTTING ASSHOLES and jumping on backs to get into the brawl!

“I would like to apologize that you are depriving some village OF THEIR IDIOT!”

YEAH BABY! And the difference between him staying out of fights and throwing fire extinguishers in the first episode and now going all in. My baby has grown!

- Loved the Easter eggs we got with the people/historical figures Five actually killed.

#the umberella academy #Klaus Hargreeves #Five #Five Hargreeves #Diego Hargreeves #Vanya Hargreeves #Ben Hargreeves #Luther Hargreeves #Allison Hargreeves #tua #fel watches tua #spoilers #1x05 #hazel #cha cha

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cyanpeacock · 5 years ago

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OK, feel like writing again.

Lots of thoughts on my mind. There are every day, and they’re pretty continuous? I don’t have the same kinds of black spaces and intense YOU MUST REMEMBER memories?

Uh, my brain feels more connected to my body? I can think, walk, and feel all at the same time without such bad snaps of fear/confusion? And I’m shocked to think a child would be left to go through those experiences being told it’s “normal.” I understand it’s “normal” to dissociate and feel intensely after a traumatic experience, and I understand why it happened, as far as I can right now, but like... that kid was me?

And nobody went to me, “yeah, kid, you’re right, it’s not normal, because you can feel that it isn’t normal for you.” Nobody validated how my brain and body felt. I concluded that maybe I didn’t feel? Maybe I was some kind of psychopath, and faking, because Mummy(tm) called me a “little actor” and whacked me when I was hurt and acting out as a child does? Was I doing this on purpose? What about the shit I got done for that I didn’t remember doing?

I got told I had an “overactive imagination” and to “just stop thinking about it” when I said I was hearing cruel voices (understatement, they were telling me to kill myself). This did not help my feeling of being unreal in a hostile world. This did not help me understand that not all thoughts are voluntary.

That was my body, that went through that, and coped the only ways it could, and ended up... here?

Like, only I can remember what the inside of my head was like back then, and it was bad. I was homicidal and suicidal. Lots of thoughts about killing random strangers. I felt trapped and threatened everywhere I went. Nobody called me by the right name. People laughed when I said I couldn’t see, or feel my body, or move properly. I was paranoid, and delusional, and aggressive but inhibited, and vulnerable to the kinds of people who hurt others for a laugh.

I know. “A lot of people have lives like that! Plenty of people are worse off! You should be grateful!”

I am grateful. But I can’t be properly grateful for the comforts I did have until the pain I felt, and still feel, has been properly acknowledged.

Acknowledgement would seem to be a process I am currently engaged in.

Anxiety around my education has become... anxiety, rather than my primary driving force? Like, all I had to keep me going for a very long time was “don’t fail school, you’ll disappoint your mum, be Punished(tm), get a shit job, and die.” Like... that’s not a very healthy approach to learning.

Now it’s more like this thing I’m piloting is saying “don’t fail school, you’ll struggle for work and money, but don’t go so hard it kills you, man, you don’t have to any more.” This is scary, because I don’t want to Do Badly(tm). This is also hopeful, because perhaps I’ll be able to enjoy life as a whole more, now I’m at a point where I’ve worked enough within myself to feel confident enough to meet new humans, and make some physical changes to my life?

Maybe I’ll learn how to go to sleep sober and happy?

My dreams aren’t as frightening any more. Strange, lonely, and vaguely disturbing, sure, but frightening? Eh, only in the way that being totally alone and unprotected in the world is frightening, and I’ve felt that ever since I was a tiny child.

I’m so angry that I had to validate my mother’s perspective before she could validate my own. The whole, “put yourself in my shoes” deal. I didn’t have a pair of my own to get back into! I knew I felt bad because of what she was doing to me, but Mummy Was Good(tm) and Doing Nothing Wrong(tm), so I had to be inherently bad somehow? It was the only explanation my child brain could come up with?

I’m also so angry about my ex-stepfather, and his refusal to listen to and learn about new concepts that were important to me, or to support me through my emotions. Dickhead. I still hope he’s found a way to live more happily.

Same again r.e. my grandfather, the one who’s a counsellor, who, uh, offered to counsel me? Within the family? Which totally isn’t a professional conflict of interest. Totally appropriate. And he kicked me out while I was psychotic and sent me home in a cop car, so, like, while I appreciate all the good times I had with the guy, that wasn’t a straw to break the camel’s back, that was an iron girder. I know it’s still fresh, but all I can think about him is... go to hell, man.

It’s not all I can think, I’m aware he’s going to get sick and die, sooner than I realize. I don’t know if I’ll have any contact with him by then, since I hear the relationship between him and my mother turned sour.

Best not to think too hard about that, at least not yet, but I guess it’s good to be aware of those kinds of things, to some extent. I have a nose for grief and conflict, let’s learn to turn away from it rather than follow it.

I miss my siblings. They’re great. I’d like to talk to them again. I need a little more time before I’m ready, because I don’t wanna see them while I’m feeling like shit for reasons they can’t console and drag them down.

I miss my mum in a weird way, because I know at least some of the stories as to why she became the way she did (although she certainly told them at unhelpful times), and I feel as though I instigated some kind of change in her, and I know there are grown-up conversations on neutral turf to come and drinks and smokes to follow, but I’m still too volatile over it to communicate as respectfully as I want to. I think it’ll be okay.

Broadly, I need to... well. Relax? Hunt and gather, for whatever I can apply that instinct to that is useful for day-to-day functioning in the modern world? Review, experience, and plan? Keep managing my emotions and impulses with these new skills that used to be really fucking difficult to implement even for a second, never mind days/weeks/months/years? Be grateful for what I’ve created for myself, and not just indebted to people I’m viewing as in some way superior to me, because I’m undoing some nasty fucking work in here (taps head)?

Hard to believe this world is mine too?

I do catch myself thinking “if I’m doing better now, does that mean I was faking it?”

It doesn’t. It means I’ve put in a lot of effort to learn and apply new skills, and that I’ve made changes to my pace, and I’ve learned how to talk about things that I had words for but no ability to speak about before. It means I’ve learned reassuring phrases and tones, and that I’m increasingly trusting that reassurance from myself.

I’m gonna do pretty great, I think. I think I can do this, I think I can figure out how to achieve a sustainable, happy, secure adult life.

OK. Let’s keep trying.

#fliptext #trauma #suicide #abuse #ask to tag #family #recovery

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sophiamamamia · 5 years ago

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I will have a go at this question. Sansa seems to be a topic of choice lately. Sansa is a highly divisive character. Some adore her. Others absolutely hate her. I will attempt to be objective about her journey. I will focus more on the book character, with a bit of show Sansa added in parts.

There is a specific group of people who hate Sansa. Many members seem to be men. Whilst I think hatred of Sansa is unjustified. It is reasonable to suggest some men dislike her because it is very difficult for us to relate to a young Sansa. She is a little lady who believes in nobility, elitism, and lady-like courtesies. She also has a veil over her eyes, dreaming of gallant white knights who are beautiful, chivalrous, true and a maid’s fantasy. Male readers/viewers find this very difficult to relate to. We never dream of white knights. And we certainly do not want one to come to our rescue and marry us. Hence, we find young Sansa quite annoying. Moreover, GoT/ASOIAF is a series for mature adults. As mature individuals, we know that white knights do not exist. Absolute chivalrous saints who protect the weak and die bravely with tears in their eyes are faux. Sansa’s initial dreams and notions are not relatable to adults. We find it child-like and ‘stupid’. Sansa’s dreams may not necessarily be stupid. Young girls may have such dreams, as young boys perhaps have dreams of being a race-car driver or astronaut cowboy. But as an adult, any of these notions seem childish and laughable. Which is what Sansa is. A child with fanciful dreams. It is not fair to hate her for her dreams. It is however quite possible to find her annoying. And there is nothing wrong with that.

Sansa is the last of her siblings to grow up and see the world around her for what it truly is. Her direwolf describes her nature very well. Lady was the most elegant (for the lack of a better word) and trusting of the direwolves. That is who Sansa was. She was quite trusting and lady-like with her courtesies. Sansa falls for the superficial charms of Joffrey, his mother, and the southern charms. It is worth noting that Sansa is quite ambitious. Even as a child, she wants to be the queen of the 7 kingdoms. She idolizes the Lannister clan. As readers, we have a different perspective. We are introduced to evil, incestuous Lannisters. Then, Sansa sides with them. Despite all their nasty showings, Sansa sticks by them. She wishes and assumes Joffrey to be a gallant prince. She changes her ways to southern ways.

In the books, the readers are first introduced to the Stark family, the de facto protagonists. Ned is the ultimate good guy and we love his children. Sansa rebelling against the Stark family bothers the audience/readers. I assume readers with teenage girls would know better and understand Sansa’s behavior. The rest of us do not. It is easy to dislike Sansa. In contrast to her, there is Arya. She is ever the Stark and the wolf-girl. GoT is meant to be action-packed, a fantasy series. We prefer to see the action and the characters involved in it. Sansa is not one of them. Dresses, flowers and the thought of gallant knights are uninteresting and not relatable.

Sansa continues to worship Joffrey and the queen despite the events on the Trident. She blames Arya for the ordeal and is angry with her father about Lady’s death. Lady’s death was Cersei’s fault. Ned had no choice and Robert gave in. Whilst Ned has the right of it that a future queen must support her betrothed, I don’t think Sansa sees it the same way. Sansa withheld the truth not to have Joffrey dislike her. Not to reveal his cowardice. It was not essentially supported as a future spouse. It was self-service. To be liked.

Fast forward to Ned’s demise. This is the pivotal moment for Sansa and the opinion of the audience regarding her character. Sansa haters blame her solely for Ned’s downfall. Sansa adorers defend her tooth and nail, suggesting she had nothing to do with it as it was Baelish who betrayed Ned. I am here to say both of these groups are wrong.

Ned’s demise was multi-factorial. Sansa not divulging what she knew to the queen would not have saved Ned. As Ned was quite the imbecile in the Game of Thrones. Ned was betrayed on different fronts. No single person was the sole cause of his downfall. Baelish, Cersei, Janos, Sansa and Ned himself all played a role. To support my idea, I will appeal to authority. The following is GRRM’s opinion on Sansa and Ned’s demise.

The way I see it, it is not a case of all or nothing. No single person is to blame for Ned's downfall. Sansa played a role, certainly, but it would be unfair to put all the blame on her. But it would also be unfair to exonerate her. She was not privy to all of Ned's plans regarding Stannis, the gold cloaks, etc... but she knew more than just that her father planned to spirit her and Arya away from King's Landing. She knew when they were to leave, on what ship, how many men would be in their escort, who would have the command, where Arya was that morning, etc... all of which was useful to Cersei in planning and timing her move.

Ned's talk with Littlefinger was certainly a turning point, though I am not sure I would call it =the= turning point. There were other crucial decisions that could easily have changed all had they gone differently. You mention Ned's refusal of Renly, which was equally critical. And there is Varys to consider, as well as the minor but crucial player everyone forgets -- Janos Slynt, who might have chosen just to do his duty instead of selling the gold cloaks to the highest bidder.

So... all in all, I suppose my answer would be that there is no single villain in the piece who caused it all, but rather a good half dozen players whose actions were all in part responsible for what happened.[1]

Sansa did have a hand in Ned’s downfall. Perhaps, she and Arya could have got away to Winterfell and that would have changed the course of future events. However, ‘what if’ scenarios are impossible to address. What would have happened if Sansa didn’t share information with the queen can never truly be ascertained.

Considering this is where the most hatred for Sansa comes from, it is important to note that she had no malicious intent. She never wanted her father dead, or her family torn apart. Ned, as the adult, should have taken better preventative measures lest he falls. However, Sansa being ‘innocently in love’ is not an excuse to forgive her. She didn’t necessarily betray Ned. She did, however, commit an act that played a part in a chain of events that had heinous outcomes.

Fast forward to Sansa’s time in court on her own. This is when she pays for her mistake. ASOIAF characters pay dearly for their mistakes, often with their lives. Sansa, fortunately, did not lose her life. But she did suffer. This is another contentious part of Sansa’s story-line. Sansa supporters suggest she survived the court through her intelligence, femininity, and courtly behavior which became her armor. Others suggest she deserved everything she suffered. Once again, I would say it is neither. Not many in the story deserve what happens to them, as the consequences of mistakes are often dire. Sansa’s suffering was not deserved. Her punishment is that she will have to live through life knowing those whom she trusted and admired beheaded her father and destroyed her family. She will have to live with the understanding that her conversation with the queen played a part in the demise of the Starks in King’s Landing. That she played a part in her father’s death.

Conversely, it was very likely that she would survive King’s Landing anyway. She was a hostage. Robb had Jaime as a captive. Cersei didn’t dare murder Sansa lest they receive Jaime’s head as a gift. Sansa’s life was certain to be safe. She simply endured and went through the tribulation. Her courtly armor and femininity would not have saved her if Jaime died. She did, however, go through a learning curve that opened her eyes to the world. She realized that princes are not gallant. Queens are something different beneath their exterior beauty. Knights are not chivalrous and they do not save the weak. And she is a pawn, in a bigger game. In the game of thrones.

For all her sincerity and good heart, Sansa is still an elitist at heart. It is to do with her upbringing and her mother who raised her in a southern way. She does lash out and make those below her feel bad. But that is because she is hurt, she is angry. She does not have a copy of the books to read Tyrion’s chapters and understand he means her no harm. From Sansa’s point of view, everyone is her enemy and if she can degrade anyone, she will.

Sansa is quite naive as any child would be. She trusted in Margaery and her grandmother, thinking they genuinely want to help her. She failed to understand that they want Winterfell. Her claim. And her claim meant the death of her brother, Robb.

I think this is the turning point for Sansa. Once she realizes that the other nobles respect and help her purely for her claim is when the glass breaks. The veil is removed from Sansa’s eyes.

Sansa rapidly develops both in mind and body post the battle of Blackwater. It is a turning point for her. Perhaps it helped to see Joffrey for the little scared boy that he was, Cersei for the drunk vindictive woman that she was, or the Hound, who broke free of his duties and chose to create his own path and destiny. Her journey to the Vale and in the Vale allows her to grow into a very clever woman who can use her charms and wit to become privy to secrets of the big players, i.e. Littlefinger. And gain influence over others. She is on the road to no longer being a pawn. She is gradually becoming a player. She is still inexperienced as the bigger players such as Randa and the Royces are aware of the underhanded schemes in the Vale. However, soon she will learn to break free of mentors and be on her own. Her powers are largely untapped. She is a Warg in the books. She will have a profound influence on the outcome of the Game of Thrones.

I find her plot quite nonsensical on the show. She does not develop politically much. She is not privy to and in the middle of the political web and intrigue, Littlefinger weaves. The show has butchered her character and Baelish’s by thrusting her into Jeyne Poole’s plot. They had to have Sansa as a strong character in season 7, and so far it seems that her suffering and rape at the hands of Ramsay made her all that she is. Which is quite wrong. One does not become cunning and politically savvy post-trauma and rape. By all rights, Sansa should be suffering from severe PTSD as Theon is. Jeyne Poole is the perfect example of a trauma victim. Not Sansa.

For the book readers, and those who would like to read the books, I recommend that you keep an open mind with Sansa’s PoVs. She will annoy you. She will exasperate and vex you with dreams of flowers and pretty boys. However, take note of what happens in her chapters. To those around her. And the conversations. Sansa is quite attuned to her surroundings and environments. She senses scents, colors, and events in a different manner than the other characters. Much of the events in her chapters are hidden clues and symbolism for the situation in the texts as a whole. Give her chapters a chance and read them carefully, as you would with your favorite characters. Sansa is initially annoying, you are allowed to judge her, criticize her, dislike her, but not hate her. She does not deserve the hatred she receives. Nor the absolute adoration that makes her seem like the epitome of strength and empowerment.

Sansa is a character in ASOIAF. She is a Stark, and she is a grey character. She has her good moments and her bad. She is improving towards her better moments. She may have lapses in judgment in the future and make mistakes. However, one should treat her without bias. Judge her for her bad deeds, applaud her for the good. It is difficult to be objective about a character whose mistake hurt a beloved character like Ned. But this is ASOIAF. All men must die. Ride the journey to the ending as it is all supposed to elicit emotive responses from us.

Footnotes

[1] Correspondence with Fans

#Reece Ansaa #sansa stark book sansa #interesting thoughts of interesting people #asoiaf #got

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rubberduckyrye · 5 years ago

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Basically all morning I’ve been thinking about my writing, and how the likelihood of me writing an original novel and publishing it is like. Stupidly small.

Why’s that? Well, there are a lot of reasons.

Puritan culture fucking terrifies me as a content creator. Or, basically, cancel culture, antis, deplatforming, whatever you call it today. The act of using every resource possible to attack and harm content creatures, especially queer content creators. There’s a danger writing characters that aren’t straight, white men--not just from the “majority” view, but the unrealistic expectations from these mindsets that anyone who is queer must be pure, must be good, must be this or that, and as you all probably know, I ain’t about that “pure good” or “pure evil” life. I like my characters complex and morally grey. I have one story in my head about demons, and the moral of the story is to flip perspectives of what “evil” is verses what “good” is, and things can and will get muddy since the subject is demons having to hunt and eat human souls to sustain themselves, otherwise they will die. The “humane” way to do this is to make contracts with humans who know the consequences of their wish. The story follows to relatively fresh humans-turned-demons that eventually fall in love, but first have to deal with the traumatizing consequences of being forced into becoming demons. This is a queer relationship and that scares me. I can already hear people calling this concept a terrible, awful, homophobic, whatever, solely because the queer protagonists aren’t “pure babies uwu” and hell, their relationship isn’t even 100% healthy so add abusive/toxic relationship to the pile of things I’d be accused of. So if I ever were to publish a book, I’d probably make a whole new identity just to do so. Like Lemony Snicket, except you wouldn’t be able to know who I am behind that identity. Because I am that afraid. I want to be as far away from fandoms of my own franchises as the creator as possible. I don’t want to be harassed, I don’t want discourse, I just want to create and be left alone.

I know I probably would not be successful. Aside from the fact that I want minority protagonists, the kind of genre I’m interested in are very... how do I put this... fanficy. Hurt/comfort? As far as I’m aware, that’s like. No where to be found in mainstream media. There’s just tragic death, heroic “I’ll fight in your name and honor,” but no diving deeper into trauma and psychology. There aren’t just breather moments, or moments where that hero breaks down because they’re just a kid/young adult who can’t really handle the trauma and stress. So the subjects I want to write for aren’t popular or considered “interesting” by mainstream media standards. And with my fears mentioned int he first point, I would have no platform to build off of with that new identity. I wouldn’t be able to yell about my book on here because that would give away my identity. So I’d have a very hard time building a platform from the ground up for a story that probably won’t be popularized to begin with. And that is aside from the overwhelming amount of internet pessimism relating to becoming a published author and my RSD ain’t about that life.

I find fanfiction more enjoyable to read and write. Probably because there are established characters for me to play around with, and that’s far easier than establishing an OC from the ground up when I just want to have two characters snuggle and talk about their hopes and dreams. I also get immediate feedback, instant gratification, because there are people who love these characters already.

Pressure, pressure, pressure. I don’t want to get too into it, but I don’t have great parents. When I was younger and not getting the best grades in school, my father was angry and told me I needed to “be someone” and that I wasn’t trying hard enough. My mother encourages my writing, but in all the wrong ways. She’s got such a high bar set for me, and when I told her I changed a character’s name, she was upset about it. They treat me more like a token child. Hell, my mother forced me to print large posters of some of my art for her that were hand-signed and had had written descriptions on the backs, so when I get “rich and famous” they (my mother and her fiance) can turn some kind of profit??? I guess? Or just show off that they have a kid with talent? Like a trophy. It’s not that they’re proud of me, they’re proud of themselves for having and raising me. That kind of thing.

Writing long, novel-length fanfiction is hard for me, let alone an original story. I have yet to write and finish a fanfiction that could be considered “novel length” by myself. I tend to get bored, or tired, or loose steam half way through and never come back to it. How can I expect to write something of that magnitude on my own with my own characters and world?

There are probably more reasons I could think of, but bleh. Thinking about this is kind of upsetting, because it also feels like I’m giving up, or letting go of a dream. A dream I had since I was a kid. That’s a sad feeling, if I admit defeat.

But is this admitting defeat?

I don’t really know.

I feel kind of... empty, thinking about it.

Sorry. I guess I just wanted to vent out my thoughts.

#vent #venting #negative

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bettsfic · 6 years ago

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a third stance on the moral dichotomy of fandom

i have one more thing to say, or i guess reiterate, on the topic of moral purity policing in fanfiction as perpetuated by minors, in a more rebloggable format than my previous asks. what i have to say is an incredibly unpopular opinion because it takes neither side of this dichotomized issue, and addresses, not the minors perpetuating the purity rhetoric, but the adults fighting against it.

first i’ll offer a run-down of the overall issue at hand:

side 1, or what i call “think of the CHILDREN”: there is a large sect of people in fandom right now, mostly teens and young adults as far as i can tell, who believe that taboo works (noncon and underage) should not be allowed to exist. if they are written, they should be flagged and subsequently taken down. these people seem to hold these beliefs for several reasons, the prevailing ones being “fiction affects reality” and “children might read it!!” this stance is the active one, the (literal) minority, the side trying to enact change upon an established and (legally) supported status quo. these people do not separate the art from the artist.

in practice, these beliefs are aggressive and toxic. we see them in rude or cruel anonymous asks urging writers to kill themselves. we see them in “only follow if” and “do not interact if” pages with lengthy bullet point lists of traits and behaviors that are Not Okay. we see them in yfip. we see them in anti tags. we see them in long, poorly researched and contextualized responses to well-meaning pro-”ship and let ship” posts. we see them in accusations of pedophilia for fics and ships that are not in fact pedophilic. we see them in phrases like “abuse apologists” and “problematic” and “romanticize” and “fetishize.”

despite the seeming growth of what i’ve been calling the Gen Z Puritanical Movement, what we see on tumblr is only a narrow view of a much wider issue spanning outside fandom and into the world of art itself. it stems from problems of decades past, McCarthyism, the Hays Code, the nuclear family, for example, and the subsequent counterculture movements against them. right now Gen X has all the power and prestige in the enormous world art, and being the children of Baby Boomers, they simultaneously believe you must always separate the art from the artist, while also widely disbelieving (or having had to learn) that inequality and disenfranchisement have any bearing in the success of art.

“the discourse” as we call it has its roots in every creative field and we are in midst of a revolution in the way we understand and interact with art. i believe, with any revolution, the answer is not in stalling it but negotiating with it, learning from it, interrogating it, and adapting.

side 2, which i’ll unpack below, is comprised mostly of what i would venture are Millennials, and fall somewhere between Gen Z purity and Gen X freedom. and as much as i want to discuss this gaping chasm of beliefs further, i’m specifically talking about the way transformative art is presently policed by side 1.

which brings us to the other side.

side 2, or what i call “i do what i WANT”: these people believe that a fan writer/artist should be able to write, post, and share with the public any creative work the mind can devise as long as it is warned/tagged properly, and all people who do not want to view their art should walk away and not interact. key phrases include “ship and let ship” and “don’t like, don’t read.” the prevailing root of this belief is that all art is valid and important, all art belongs, even when that art is devised entirely by the id. additionally, they believe they do not have to justify, defend, or explain their art in order for it to exist, and most importantly, it is every reader/viewer’s responsibility to understand the difference between fiction and reality. these people separate art from the artist.

in practice, these beliefs are poised to defend of the attacks from side 1. this is a reaction to a movement, an assertion of maintaining the status quo. we see posts speaking to an audience of side 1, pleading or at times demanding for them to learn not only the fraught history of fanworks but also the greater context of art and censorship. these posts are then reblogged by people with similar beliefs, attacked by side 1, and no one seems to really learn anything at all. the dichotomy is maintained. battles end as posts fall into obscurity, but the war rages on.

side 2 holds the status quo, the most common sense. it is the most educated perspective, upheld by the wiser and older parties of fandom, the transformative artists who have lived through strikethrough and boldthrough and have experienced the damaging consequences of the censorship and ideology of side 1. moreover, it is upheld by the actual people who built and run the archive on which our art rests. in this dichotomy, side 2 has all the power. side 2 is the majority.

here’s where i get to my incredibly unpopular opinion:

people in positions of power have no reason to meet aggression with more aggression except to re-establish and assert that power over the minority opinion. aggression does not sway the minority opinion; it only fuels it.

in other, more practical words, we are ADULTS sharing a public community space with CHILDREN, and some of those children have made it clear that they are angry.

why do we meet that anger with anger when we are older and wiser and have all the authority? if a child is having a violent tantrum, do you punch them in the face? no, you hold their wrists. you calm them down. you ask them what’s wrong. you try to parse out what happened and work together to make sure it doesn’t happen again. you can’t expect them to articulate that anger; you have to ask questions. you have to listen to them.

side 1 says that taboo works are wrong and bad and shameful. i personally disagree with that belief, but my curiosity lies in the extreme emotional reaction and value judgments behind it. and when enough people are angry about something, if a movement becomes wide enough, it means there is something else going on, some seed of truth happening somewhere -- a needle in a haystack, an invisible shard of glass on the kitchen floor -- that needs to be found. i’m not saying side 1 is right, but i am saying that there is something in that anger which might ring true, even if the toxic rhetoric they are spouting is not. i don’t know what that truth is, and the point of this post is not to find it, but to encourage us to seek bigger answers about this very big problem.

side 2, you might be saying, they’re not children, they’re teenagers and young adults. you might be saying, when i was their age, i knew to obey the etiquette of fandom. you might be saying, we are not equals, they should be learning from us. you might be saying, it’s their responsibility to know fiction from reality. you might be saying, none of this is my responsibility. you might be saying, this movement is getting bigger and scarier and it may become an actual threat to our art.

and you might be feeling: i have no interest in logically or morally defending the taboo nature my aesthetic interests. i know that they appeal to me, and i know i should not be tasked with or required to publicly explain myself. i should not have to assert that art is separate from the artist. i should not have to endure aggressive mobs of anons in my inbox. i should not be chased away by pitchforks held by my own community. i should not be accused of being a predator, rapist, abuse apologist, or pedophile.

and maybe you know that you are not any of those things, and to be accused of them is ridiculous and appalling, but maybe it still hurts to be called all of that which makes life so dangerous and cruel. maybe it always hurts to have your art misunderstood.

this brings me back to anger. all anger is devised of pain and fear. we get angry when we’re hurt and scared. when i see two angry sides of a wide divide, all i see is that fear and pain, and all i want is to lessen it.

on side 1, we have a group of young people whose only context is the present and whose only fear is the future. i put myself in the shoes of what it must be like to be a teenager in america in 2018, how different it is from when i was a teenager. teen stars on red carpet events in 2005 dressed in ugly cargo pants and sweatshirts. millie bobby brown at 13 was dressed like a supermodel at last year’s emmy’s. young people today have more and easier access to information pertaining to violence and sex, consume media steeped in those things, than they ever have. and it’s becoming increasingly difficult for parents to keep them from that interaction. side 2′s rhetoric around this is to wipe their hands free of it -- “your parents should monitor what you’re doing on the internet.” and they should, they absolutely should, but while technology has changed, teenage curiosity hasn’t. i clicked past every 18+ warning i’ve ever seen in my life, and that was my choice, and i handled the consequences.

but just for a second imagine being 14 again, and curiosity getting the best of you, and clicking on something in which your physical equivalent is being hurt and abused and eroticized. can you imagine not having any understanding of the greater context of what you’ve just read, in art or in life? wouldn’t you be scared too, to know those things exist? wouldn’t you be reluctant to listen to the explanation of them when you are young and afraid and suddenly aware that you can be hurt?

i am not encouraging writers to stop creating taboo fanworks. i think they have an important artistic purpose and function and place, and i value any mind that can conceive and face such darkness. but as someone who aims to understand as much as i possibly can about what it is to be human, to be alive today, i am inclined to consider the various interpretations of taboo art and its potential repercussions.

teenagers today are more aware and attuned to -- and have constant access to -- current events than any other generation before, but that does not mean they have learned or educated themselves on the historical context of these events in order to understand them fully. they don’t have a wide perspective, but they do have their moral compasses guided by the abhorrence of the constant human rights violations that occur on macro and micro scales every single day, and it’s those compasses that place value judgments on the content they consume in fandom, the place where they feel, i speculate, the most valued. the place they have the most power and sway. the only place, maybe, that their voice and fear and anger is ever heard, witnessed, responded to, taken seriously.

being a teenager today is a completely new and terrifying machine made of old parts. we, the adults in fandom, understand the parts but not the machine. how can all the same parts make something so different from us? who built this monster, and how to we destroy it? why is it attacking us when there are bigger and more important battles to fight? why doesn’t it go read a fucking book for once?

that brings us to side 2. if side 1 has the future, side 2 has the past. we see the toxic rhetoric of side 1 and we know what consequences can come of it because we’ve lived the worst of it. we have both the pain of the past and the fear of the future to handle, and neither are easy to cope with.

so what do we do? we either get angry and fight back, or disengage. sometimes i think the latter is the most toxic of all, because i believe it’s every artist’s responsibility to understand the work they’re doing and the greater context of that work, how it fits in their given lexicon of art. they should not be required to defend it or speak for it, but they should know it. inside and out, they should know their art and why they make it.

i also believe, if you know your art and why you make it, if you can separate yourself the artist from the art, why disengage from those who are repulsed but reaching out? it’s definitely my gut instinct to meet cruelty with anger and upsetness, but cruelty also piques my curiosity -- i want to know where the repulsion comes from. i want to ask questions. why are you offended by this art? how have you interpreted it? why are you afraid of it? how has its existence hurt you? if nothing else, it always gives me a broader understanding of my work and how it can be seen, which is invaluable feedback for any artist.

if there is any bridge at all to be built between this divide, i think it is in our ability to ask questions, listen to the answers, and use those answers, not to argue with or defend ourselves or to become upset by, but to ask more questions.

here are two ways this mentality has helped me --

in my old job (commercial finance real estate), i worked with upperclass middle-aged white men who got paid six figures a year to golf and cheat on their wives while i did all their paperwork. eventually i made a hobby of sitting in their offices and asking them questions, knowing they had authority over me, knowing our opinions differed. knowing i had no place to argue with them or leverage in telling them all the ways i felt they were wrong about politics and society at large. i pretended they were teaching me things, showing me the way of the world. i let them believe that, and i continued asking questions, forcing them to articulate aloud why they believed what they believed, hours and hours, slowly boxing them into corners from which they would eventually change their own minds.

in my current job (i’m a college instructor) i do something similar. i sit down with every single student one on one and i ask them questions about their political and social beliefs. often my students are 19, white, straight, affluent, conservative young adults who hold many of the same puritanical ideas as that of side 1 with less of the toxic rhetoric. at first, i was terrified to do this. it was different than my old job because suddenly i was the one with authority. i thought, what if i encounter racism? prejudice? sexism? what if they are fundamentally wrong on every level, and won’t listen to me, someone who knows the greater context of their opinions? what if i end up arguing with them? what if they don’t respect me? what if i can’t change their minds? and most importantly -- is it my responsibility to change their minds at all?

after the first semester, i realized how young they were, how much they still had left to grow, and learn, and live, and that my class would not be able to teach them everything they needed to know in order to strip away the prejudices and narrow-mindedness of their upbringings. i learned that all i could do was be a person in a position of authority listening to their beliefs and asking them tough questions no one has ever asked them. forcing them on the spot to articulate the beliefs they have not before had the opportunity to interrogate. i find i rarely agree with what they say, but i validate their right and ability to say it. to have a voice and space and responsibility in and to society. to think, itself. and most importantly to think through their ideals, which they cannot do if they are never given a chance to be heard, if they are never asked the questions whose answers will lead them to deeper and more meaningful insights.

i have never changed the mind of a single person by arguing, but i have changed several minds by asking.

we have an entire generation of terrified young people who are lashing out, and i do not want to hate them. i do not want to meet their rage and toxicity with fear, defensiveness, and dismissal. i want to sympathize and listen. i want to know more about why they feel how they feel, what the real root of it is, the seeds of truth behind the rhetoric. i want to understand. and mostly, i want to help fix all the broken and awful things in the greater sociopolitical sphere that have built this terrifying machine and dug our moral divide.

#tsatp #discourse #moral purity #ao3 #fanfiction

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